On Thursday, the Indian Prairie District 204 school board deemed the Brach-Brodie land was too expensive to purchase, but that no other site was more suitable for Metea Valley High School. So, with $125 million in referendum money burning a hole in its pocket, Dist. 204 is headed back to court, to try to change the outcome of the jury verdict that set the price of the Brach-Brodie land at $518,000 an acre.
This may not technically be square one--that would be where the district was at before the whole attendance boundary process and referendum-approval process. But it would seem now the district is no closer to getting the school built than it was a year ago.
What do you think of this latest strategy? Are district officials in denial, by desperately hoping to somehow get the Brach-Brodie land at a lower cost? Or is this a good idea, rejecting other possible sites and doing everything possible to save taxpayers money by trying to get the best deal for what certainly looks like the only site the district is willing to seriously consider?
Maybe this will only increase the total legal costs associated with the land acquisition. Perhaps ultimately the district will get the Brach-Brodie land whatever the cost. As a taxpayer/parent/voter, don't you wish you knew this before you voted on the tax increase referendum?
I think it is truly embarrassing that we have a SB president that will stop at nothing to pursue his agenda of building Metea on the BB parcel.
I love how he blames the voters for the increased costs because they rejected the original referendums due to lack of boundary information. If he had it his way, he would have forced the taxpayers to pay the increased land cost if the quick take action had been approved.
He clearly has an agenda, as seen with the new motion filed to try to force this BB parcel to work despite the fact that continuing this fight will cost more legal fees. He does not have the best interest of 204 taxpayers in mind at all.
Who voted for this guy anyway?? Is there such a thing as impeaching a school board member?
This would bo commical if it was not real life. What's another few miilion to prove once again private landowner rights mean something. And I assume we can say 2009 is off the table.
If the School board has all this money to continue to fight for the BB land why can't they finally hire a professional demographer to determine if the 3rd high school is really needed. With the enrollment numbers way below the projections provided to the public to pass the referendum, don't we think it is about time they start doing their job and get accurate projections from professionals. They certainly don't hesitate to spend money on lawyers or surveys. Maybe they should go back to looking at an addition at NV. It certainly would be much cheaper and then they could spend some of that money from the referendum on education programs to help educate the children rather than more bricks and mortar.
I have a legal question. Is the School Board obligated to build the high school? I mean, could it legally say, on second thought we've decided it can't be done for this much, we just won't spend the referendum money? I know they can't use the funds for any purpose other than building a third high school. But is the district in a situation where it MUST spend the referendum money? And what if the referendum money isn't enough to get the land and building, then what? Could a judge order the district to build a high school without athletic facilities or other features tht the district says it can't afford if it ends up spending so much for the Brach Brodie property?
Did I miss something? I thought the article clearly said that the BB site was not under consideration.
Forget the 3rd high school. We now have 2 years of declining elementary school enrollment and the district is more than 1000 students behind their ridiculous projections; it is time to cancel it and move on.
Mike,
The article said that 4 sites are in the running. BB is still one if the price ever comes down or 3 others sites. I assume that the other sites include the church land north on Eola and the Ashwood land west of 248th but I am not sure were the 3 location is.
I want to know what sites they are looking at and 5 or 6 schemes for boundary layouts for each site.
Is it the role of the Naperville Sun Editors to frame the issue or slant the issue? It's very clear what the position of the Naperville Sun is from their statement of this issue.
The referendum only authorizes the district to issue bonds to purchase land and build a high school. The district has sold those bonds so they have all the cash. You are on the hook to pay those back over 20 years. It would seem logical that the district could use the money to retire the bonds and cancel the 3rd high school since it apparently is not needed.
I would vote for a referendum for A/C if they canceled the 3rd high school.
If they continue down the path to build an empty 3rd high school, I will most likely never vote for a 204 referendum again because it will be clear the district can not be trusted.
The school board has screwed up but the administration is also to blame. Folks in administration should be coming out and publically stating the school isn't needed.
Napervillian,
I agree I would like to see some cost data. My guees is we won't see it for some time. And while I am not in support of continued bb land strategy I am happy the SB is taking a step back and taking more time.
However the second part of your request is the type of request that has gotten us to where we are at. How about we focus on building a school and then have some professionals come in and set boudaries. Make it a mutually exclusive event.
Right! Why would the teachers (who belong to the union) come out and say that the school is not needed, when if they just keep their mouths shut, they get more teachers hired, more union members, another new facility for some (if transfered). It's a win win situation for them. They will never say that it is not needed. I went to the open house for NVHS at the beginning of the year and almost every teacher expressed a hope that the new school would be built so overcrowding would be eliminated.
Am I the only parent here who agrees with the school board on this decision? I feel the board is absolutely right in saying no to that ridiculously high price set on the Brach-Brodie land. Their inflated price is almost double what it should be. I don't think any developer would consider paying over half a million per acre to even build commercial sites on that property. The Brach Brodie people are trying to take advantage and gouge the community. If they decide to sell it for a fair price then we should pursue it. But if not, the BB people can let the land sit there forever and rot for all I care at that price.
I would be in favor of the 3rd HS if it really did reduce overcrowding. But it will not. NVHS still would have arounf 4200 kids even with the new HS. That is why I voted against the new HS and will vote against the funding referendum. My niece goes to a HS in a suburb of Chicago where their total enrollment (1170 kids)is less than the amount of kids in the NV Gold building, and they are in a HS bigger than the main NVHS.
Hey brad 204: It was a joke. Take care and see you at the next meeting. mm
I do not think anyone argues with you on that point Concerned Mom. I think there is a growing number of people who are a bit tired of a land process that requires lawyers, lobbyist, and state senators. The 5th amendment clearly states, “…nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation”. We have a choice to pay the just compensation or move on.
Here is an excerpt from a note from Mark Metzger sent over the summer:
“Tuesday morning, Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson called another
meeting on the subject of Metea Valley High School. Their disappointment at
the tactics of the landowners' trial lawyers was exceeded only by their
collective dedication to finding a way to open Metea Valley in the Fall of
2009. They recognize the urgency of our situation and their commitment to a
rapid solution was apparent.
Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson have now had a taste of the trial
lawyers' tactics with which we have done battle for several years. We
believe that with their help, the rest of the Senate will promptly provide
us with a legislative solution to our problem.
While it is still too soon to declare victory and begin moving earth, we
are encouraged by the progress being made in the Senate. For that, we owe a
debt of gratitude to Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson.” [END QUOTE]
It just amazes me given what is going on with the state government our senators had so much time to get involved. Also, such a comment as, “Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson have now had a taste of the trial lawyers' tactics with which we have done battle for several years.” I believe those trial lawyers were trying to protect Brach Brodie’s 5th amendment right.
I assume doing another legal filing is a tactic to stall the process. But a good tactic unlike the Brach Brodie’s bad tactics, right? Are we still doing battle or are we going to negotiate with someone?
hehe, my bad Napervillian. I'll put my fangs away :)
Once again the school board is needlessly spending our hard earned tax dollars! This time on a frivolous lawsuit over the cost of the bb land. I am sick of this and feel that a 3rd high school is not needed. When will the madness end? Where is the Dough Boy when you need him?
How in the heck does the SB think the new HS will be open in August of 2009. What are they smoking???
Napervillian,
I agree I would like to see some cost data. My guess is we won't see it for some time. And while I am not in support of continued bb land strategy I am happy the SB is taking a step back and taking more time.
However the second part of your request is the type of request that has gotten us to where we are at. How about we focus on building a school and then have some professionals come in and set boudaries. Make it a mutually exclusive event.
Give up the third high school and the BB property. This is the worst site in the world for the third high school that we don't need. Howie Crouse and the school board has their own agenda. They messed around with the boundaries to scare everyone when this all started. Isn't it a shame that the very same school board in control of Wabonsie used it to scare people that their children might go there. Or, are the children from Naperville Too Good to go to school with Aurora children.
Taxes are too high anyway, and I am tired of paying, and paying, and paying for the school boards own personal agendas and screw ups. If I ran my business like the school board does, I would be out of business.
For the kids, @ $ 518,250 an acre…What a bargain!
http://naperville-tv.com/2007/10/26/for-the-kids-518250-an-acrewhat-a-bargain/
I say junk the whole idea of the third HS, cut your losses and pay the Brach-Brodie lawyers the $4-6M and be done with it. If NVHS is so overcrowded, bring in some trailers to handle the overflow.
Several school board members have kids in Waubonsie. Some bigots may be scared to go there, and some ignorant people may have even used that tactic to get what they wanted on boundaries, but I don't see why you would say that the "school board" tried to scare people about it, Mr. Lueck.
I continually hear about "agendas" of school board members, like there are some dark, secret plans they all have which they are all trying to trick everyone into allowing. Whenever I see someone write that kind of thing, it strikes me that the person has no idea what they are talking about, but saying it makes them feel better about themselves in some way ... you know, at least they don't have a bad thing like an "agenda" underlying their opinions, right? Exactly what that agenda may be, who knows. Mr. Lueck, you say they have them ... well, what are they? Surely it cannot be that they have come to the studied opinion that a third high school is needed for future growth and they are trying to get the school district in a position to meet that growth. If you have a different opinion based on less information and study than them, it must be because they have a hidden "agenda", right? Transplant says that Metzger "clearly has an agenda" wanting to put the high school on the BB property. What does that mean? Trying to do what they said all along they would try to do is some dark "agenda"? Ironically, Transplant says this when Metzger has given the strongest indication yet that they may put the school elsewhere. Just what are these "agendas", what proof do you have of them, and what is it that make having that "agenda" bad?
As is frequently the case in such blogs, the facts don't matter. The people who first voted down the referendum because they would not approve it unless they were sure their kid went to the desired school, causing the option for the BB property at the original reasonable price to be lost - the problems now with the price of the land isn't their fault, right? And then the people who approved the second referendum after the squeakiest wheels got their way, approving the taxes which the school board could not levy on its own - nothing is those voters' fault either, right? Surely they were all mindless zombies acting at the school board's will. The people who did not vote at all - again, not their fault, right? Everything is the school board's fault, right?
Right?
Kevin has it exactly right. The wording of this original post by the Naperville Sun editors is outrageously worded. When all is said and done, look back on it and I bet half the presumptions of the entire post will prove to have been false. There's a reason local editors like Tim West are thought so poorly of. This is just one example among thousands.
A short while ago, I posted my thoughts as Napervillian but see now that another person has been using that name here. Sorry for any confusion.
Whatever happened to the Macom property at 248th and 95th that was offered to the school district in October of 2006?
Too bad they didn't take it seriously at the time. If they had, the third high school just might have been ready by 2009 and according to the school board president, we'd have saved 8-13 Million dollars (the cost of delayed construction).
I sure hope that property is still under consideration. What on earth could be the roadblock now?
Egos? Let's hope not. What else? It's still available and should be considered.
The public schools are a government sanctioned monopoly with limited competition in Illinois. The county townships are reassessing us HIGHER EVERY YEAR including the Wheatland Township quad year to support the money vacuum. With the housing bubble and decreased property values unfolding in our neighborhoods, is ISPD 204 going to push for reassessment DOWN EVERY YEAR to save the taxpayers money or keep us HIGHEST till the next mandatory quad assessment in 4 years? Can schools live with less money in a deflating housing market? It's all about academics, right? How many of us taxpayers benefit today from posh pools and sports fields in our adult lives? My high school was 3 floors, rectangular, no A/C, no pool, no homecoming fireworks, no SUV's in the parking lot, but we got a solid EDUCATION. Heck, the IPSD 204 computers are newer than the ones in my house and at work, no fiber optic internet connections, the bathrooms at work are much uglier than any IPSD 204 schools. Somehow without IPSD 204's vision, my generation put man on the moon and designed/built the skyscrapers of America. Get back to the basics, stop the dooms day scenarios, boundary wars, get the ACADEMIC trailers out and deal with them bolted to NVHS right now if overcrowded. Now that quick take is done, does anybody think IPSD 204 actively supports vouchers as a viable alternative in the Illinois legislature? Back to square one, we can do better for every child (poor or rich), the future of America, abandon BB and the 3rd HS idea once and for all. Checkout http://theeducationrevolution.blogspot.com/2007/09/end-public-school-monopoly.html
Why do people insist on saying that a third HS isn't necessary. A third HS is needed...we are overcrowded today. Current enrollment in District 204 is approximately 50% greater than in 203, yet our HS infrastructure and capacity is relatively the same.
Yes, Enrollment has not kept pace with the SB's projections. However, Those projection were completed before we were hit with a slumping real estate market. This shouldn't be a surprise to most people. There are are still 1,000's of acres of undeveloped land within 204's boundaries that will be developed with residential housing as soon as the real estate market turns around. What then...more trailers? South Naperville will look like a trailer park. I think our kids and property owners deserve a lot more for the taxes we're paying.
That being said, it is embarassing, no wait...shameful, that we have the funds, but no where to build. The SB should have been working on a contingency for this a year ago. Most professionals would be fired for such an obvious oversight!
While District 204 is slowly squandering the last $125,000,000 they borrowed on quick-take, lobbyists and attorneys, they are already planning to fleece you again.
District 204 officials wants to spend $17,000 of your hard earned money and blow it on a survey to determine if they should push yet another referendum. This time they want to borrow $45,000,000 to install air conditioners at 19 elementary schools that don't have them.
According to Frigidaire.com, for this same $17,000 the district could purchase 53 12,000-BTU air conditioners at a price of $319 each.
The features include electronic controls with remote control, ionizer/electrostatic clean air filtration and temperature-sensing remote controls.
A real business person could probably get a discount on that price or get additional units for free due to such a large bulk purchase, but not district 204.
And the district wonders why voters don't trust them.
Meanwhile, district 204 elementary school enrollment has declinded the last 2 years in a row 2 year decline of 284 students. By the time the 3rd high school is ready in 2010, it won't even be needed.
Remember what Howie Crouse told us in 2001?
‘[District 204 administrators] also predict that student enrollment in the district eventually will level off and then start to decline. They estimate the high school population would fit back into [the main campuses of] Neuqua and Waubonsie around 2020…[by] 2010, [we] predict high school enrollment will peak at 8,800 students. If this happens, officials say they don’t want the district to be stuck with a high school that isn’t being used… We’ve seen what’s occurred with other districts having empty high schools with very little utility. A high school, which would be much larger [than a freshman campus], likely would be difficult to sell…[I]f the schools would be over capacity for several years, school leaders would explore various options to deal with that...building additions then or having some students take a few classes through nearby colleges.’
Daily Herald, 2/17/01 (quoting Howard Crouse, then Associate Superintendent)
G4 dude,
The reason we say the 3rd high school isn't necessary is because quite simply, it isn't and never will be. Elementaty school enrollment is declining, see for yourself at
http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf
See all those red figures? Elementary school enrollment has declinded 2 years in a row. The 2 year decline is 284 students.
Now, see the district's projections where they tell us the district is going to be overrun by new students.
http://www.ipsd.org/newsevents/news_item_detail.asp?id=5768
They said that "For the next 10 years, kindergarten enrollment will stay relatively stable".
Wrong again, K enrollment dropped again this year to the lowest level in years.
Model 1 was to generate "4,000 new students over 10 years".
Huh? Enrollment is declining. Are they going to bus these students in from someplace? They aren't here.
The district models were NEVER correct, they were based on bad assumptions and inaccurate growth projections.
Enrollment has peaked and the bubble of students will have passed by the time any school is built and possibly opens in 2010. Hopefully, the district will come to its senses and cancel the 3rd high school as it will never be needed.
Peterson elementary school can hold 850 students but is only 50% utilized and in order to find those 400+ students the district had to close Wheatland elementary school and move them to Peterson, otherwise Peterson would still be sitting their empty.
The district can not even learn from its past mistakes.
Even Joni Hirsh Blackman told us that if we built a 3rd high school it would end up empty and a waste of taxpayer money.
‘It is easy to say that Indian Prairie should build a third high school. But that decision was made years ago. At this point, time is too short for the urgent need and land is too expensive. Besides that, even if all those obstacles could be overcome, the ‘third high school’ eventually could end up the white elephant my high school was…[my own high school] opened in 1970, large enough to hold more than 2,500 students, but the enrollment never reached much more than 1,600. Districtwide, enrollment peaked at 12,500 and then began to decline [closing in 1981].The school district tried to sell the building. But for years, it sat there…[b]ut as I’ve listened to the debate around me in the past several months, I’ve thought a lot about what a waste in taxpayer money it all was.
Joni Hirsh Blackman, Naperville Sun, 2/11/01
Yes Paul, and back many years ago Microsoft's Bill Gates was quoted as saying no one would ever need more than 640K of memory in their computer. Do you need more than 640K today?
Relying on an old out dated quote now that newer and better information is known is naive at best.
As for your Frigidaire epiphany, how long do you suppose they will last, how much would install and reworking of the windows be and how much power do you think they will draw? According to the people who studied the power draw, they eliminated the room AC's as a potential option because no school has the power capacity leading into the building to support that electrical load. Increasing the electrical capacity would cost too much as would the ongoing power consumption above and beyond a whole-building solution. You would have known this if you paid attention at the School Board meeting on 10/22/07.
As, for Napervillian | October 26, 2007 06:49 PM comments.
Blame the public?? I know this whole voting this is annoying. Maybe we should try a totalitarian model :)
We are where we are. I think the majority of people sat through the quick take and the trial in a civil manner. But the quick take failed and trial was lost. And I can only talk for myself but I was a tad bit horrified we just started looking into other options after we lost. That seems a bit like only applying for one college. It has been clearly stated time and time again that 2009 is the must have year for opening of the school. In fact, the whole quick take was pushed because 2009 was it.
Is the board an evil empire? Naw, they are just citizens doing a job that does not pay. And I would agree having M2 as a board member and also as a member of the state school board is a good thing. However, at a certain point we do look to our leadership to provide direction, right? err, right? :)
Since there has been no real data of any kind of course the blogs are going to run feral. For instance, did you notice that the land updates on the District 204 website were only current till 10/2 until this Friday and all of a sudden there is a 10/16, 10/23, and 10/26 update. And probably the real reason they did not get out there was because some web programmer forgot to publish them. I do not know maybe getting those earlier would have been helpful. Or for instance, I find it odd that the superintendent has not said a single thing publicly about what is going on. Does that mean he is secretly against it or just wants to stay away from it or more likely it just means nothing :) But there ya go in a vacuum of knowledge the ideas will spin.
People are blaming the press for a slanted view point but the press seems to be the only people the board is talking to. Maybe we should have a public forum. See, the public still thinks there are three other viable options on the table. Maybe they are not viable. For instance, maybe Macom is profiteering and not really offering a good deal. I imagine they are a motivator seller but they do not exactly have a Boy Scout history in Naperville.
Government never feels good when it’s moving quietly. Or again we can go for that totalitarian model.
One last time for the Metea mess:
Known - In 2006, voters approved a $124.7 million tax hike to pay for the new school. The school board has already promised NOT to ask for additional money for the project……….
SB President Mark Metzger:
- "Given the growth in material costs and anticipated labor cost increases, the only options for building on Brach-Brodie within the available proceeds involves substantial reductions in the building, such as eliminating the pool or the athletic facilities,"
- "We believe the community expects Metea to be a full-featured facility, making those options unacceptable."
Taxpayer:
Excuse me President Metzger, but perhaps what this SB believes and what is now possible can no longer co-exist. Is the cost of materials going down or are they going up? Is the labor cost declining or is it escalating as this decision lingers? When was it mandated that every high school be required to have a swimming pool? Will the student read better, learn more math skills or better understand the Constitution because they can swim a few hours a year in the pool? Please, explain to us again what this debate is about, education or building another ostentatious display. I know it will be difficult but perhaps a pool or a football field can be shared don’t you think? If it isn’t about education any more, I don’t want to pay any more. If parents demand these accoutrements, assess them an additional $500.00 per year or whatever it costs to pay for it and let the majority of us just pay for what is needed to EDUCATE the SD student.
SB President Mark Metzger:
- Even though there are other possible sites for the school, President Metzger believes pursuing the Brach-Brodie site is still worthwhile.
- Other sites , "Each has negative aspects that cause them to be ranked below Brach-Brodie," President Metzger said. "Except for the price, Brach-Brodie was and continues to be the least-wrong site.
- If this SB continues to pursue Brach-Brodie is a 2009 opening as originally planned really not entirely off the table President Metzger?
Taxpayer:
Unless the crack SD retained legal team is offering their services pro bono, I would suggest this Board really consider just facing the music and move on from the “least wrong site”. What the SB had originally decided to be the cost of land was proven wrong, so now how deep do you want to dig this money pit? How rich does this SB want to make these lawyers? Anyway, it could be several months before a judge decides whether to EVEN GRANT a new trial.
Perhaps this time we can all act like adults: restructure the boundaries amicably and end this issue both prudently and economically.
Time to dedicate more effort into exploring the other three potential sites don’t you think? Hey, does the offer made by the Macom Corporation appear more enticing now?
I moved to this area because of the schools. I have been here an entire year and they haven't broken ground on the third high school. The current ones are sooo overcrowded! The kids can't even make it on the teams because too many kids are trying out. This is just pathetic. Pick some affordable land and build a damn third high school already!
Have any of you folks that have posted your comments been to either WVHS or NVHS during passing periods? It's WORSE than Union Station. Did you know that students are only allowed to walk certain directions in the hallways even if their class in literally a few steps away from their locker so that the "traffic flow" doesn't get messed up? And some of you are saying there is NO NEED for a new HS? Have you gone mad?!! I think some of you need to take a trip to one of the schools & see for yourself. I think we need to suck it up & pay the $500,00+/acre & be done with it. Naperville keeps getting more & more populated & doesn't look like it's going to slow down any time soon. People are going to continue to have children too. For the senior citizens that might be worried about the tax hike, you can have your taxes frozen, so no worry. As for those of you who are "tired" of paying the Naperville taxes...all I have to say is you don't have to live here. No one is putting a gun to your head telling you to stay in Naperville. Move out West. There are cheaper homes & taxes out there. We want what's best for our children, & what's best is another HS so there is no overcrowding. Remember, these children are our future. If it was s strip mall, hey, I'd be on board..but it's a school for goodness sakes. Think about it, visit a HS & then tell me what you think!!!
Do you think it's possible the people who are against the new HS are the ones who aren't included in the new borders? Meaning their children won't be going there? I know the people in Brookdale are MAD b/c they aren't included in the borders & are worried that their property value will go down. Think about it......hmmmm.
Does anybody realize great inventors such as Thomas Edison, Alexander Bell, Orville/Wilbur Wright, and Albert Einstein dropped out of formal school to become home-spun genius's? The key was that the public schools, their buildings, their professionals were not the only option.
People are made to believe public schools are the only option since we are forced to pay the mandatory high taxes. Think out of the box people, just imagine if that Frontier Center (very nice building) was NVHS's real competition for your child.
Yes, there is an agenda, it's called build and protect the monopoly, unions (NEA/AFT), pensions, and golden parachutes at any cost. Dear Illinois Legislature, direct my hard earned mandatory taxpayer $$'s toward real education competition for our wonderful children and remove the school districts lions share of my property tax bill.
In the meantime, back to researching colleges. So glad C.O.D. is so great, reasonably priced, lots of choices, low taxpayer cost. That's right, C.O.D. is doing the Frontier Center!
I thought many people in Naperville were fiscally conservative Republicans. Instead I see San Francisco Liberals who wish to waste our money for their political and social agendas. Hey when the new high school sits half vacant, we can turn part of it into a Woodstock museum. Hillary would love it.
Residents in 204 got what they deserved. The referendum to build a school never should have been proposed until the district owned the land.
26 million reasons not to trust the school district
http://www.thechampion.org/article.asp?id=6728
I recently had the opportunity to visit New Trier. New Trier High School is consistently rated one of the top high schools in the entire state.
New Trier has 500 students more than WVHS.
http://www.newtrier.k12.il.us/records/enrollment.htm
New Trier high school was identified as "quite possibly the best public school in America" by Town & Country. Life also recognized New Trier as one of the best high schools in America with cover stories in 1950 and 1998.
In Newsweek's Top High Schools In America, Stevenson High School(Lincolnshire, IL) is ranked #166 in the nation, and #3 in the state. Stevenson has 4,507 students; more proof that the size of a school has nothing to do with acedemic excellence. If anything, the larger schools have better results.
Let's not forget that HS enrollment in District 204 hardly budged this year. When you consider the number of seniors attending COD Frontier on a fulltime basis, the number of students at district 204's 2 main HS campuses remainder flat. That doesn't even take into account the number of students attending Frontier part time.
Remember, Frontier can handle an additional 450 students and has room to grow. If some extra space is needed, Frontier is already waiting to take those students until the bubble of students passes.
You may also be interested to learn that New Trier and Stevenson have students in their hallways between classes. Can you imagine that?
With the real estate market going the way it is, if District 204 waits a couple more years they ought to be able to get the Brach Brodie property for a lot less than $518,000 an acre. Play the waiting game. The price will go down.
People's wrong impressions of what the Frontier campus offers and doesn't offer is irrelevant. The referendum passed, so please do yourself a favor and quit spending the energy putting out useless irrelevant information about whether a 3rd HS is needed or not. That vote was in 2006 and the voters said YES it is. The FC is not a 'smaller HS' able to just take any and all overflow and offer a full curriculum.
If the CRAFT-like/CFO folks like low taxes, please do yourselves a favor and just move out west. You'll be much much happier as the taxes are down way low where you want them to be. They are not coming down here. If you think they are, you are just kidding yourself. In the meantime, the rest of us will enjoy the planted claps at public comment pertaining to irrelevant information and bogus straw-man arguments.
I have a question. Are there any established public advocacy groups or organizations within the District that lobby or have a regular dialogue with the board of education? There seems to be a fair amount of public discontent and it would be nice to get it organized and focused.
Actually, Howie Crouse and Mark Metzger told us to pass a referendum and build the freshman campuses instead of a 3rd high school back in 2001. That was done and cost $59 million.
‘School officials favor freshman campuses over a third high school for several reasons. A new high school would be more costly than freshman centers, school officials say. Administrators project a high school would cost about $80 million, not including buying land. I don’t see how we could, practically, build a high school we need with the facilities we need and run under an $80 (million) to $90 million project.’
Daily Herald, 2/17/01 (quoting then and now IPSD 204 Board Member, Mark Metzger)
So, with enrollment declining, why is Mark Metzger still pushing for a 3rd high school? Who does Mark Metzger really represent?
With regard to the Frontier campus, it is a budgeted item for district 204 and the facts are that it is part of the equation. If it were simply utilized further, we could actually reduce the number of students at the 2 main HS campuses.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=59940
If the 3rd high school is ever built and ever opens, district 204 plans to close the WVHS freshman campus in order to try and find students to fill part of the 3rd high school. Does that make any sense? Why build a HS building just to close another Hs building? Why wouldn't we just use the building we already have?
Dear Joe,
It took me awhile but I found the website for the group called CRAFT which you mentioned.
Citizens for Reasonable and Fair Taxes. I think that is something we can all support.
Anyway, very interesting information here, thanks for the tip.
http://user.mc.net/~igloo/craft.htm
I also found in my searching The Champion. Fascinating as well. Thank you again Joe.
http://www.thechampion.org/
Stay focused on ACADEMICS. Why all the waste on the unnecessary extras such as pools, stadiums, auditoriums, etc. Is there any reason why each HS must be a standalone city? And for those who move here just for the schools then moving out, those of us who love this area are stuck with a bad legacy expensive tax bill. As for those who move here just for the schools, move out west and build your dream palace with your own cash up front. Don't ask me to move out due to the unrealistic and wasteful monopolistic money machine. Go on thechampion.org and look at those HUGE salaries! Bet Howie is really hurting on pension given his $215K 2006 salary. Where did the current superintendent come from, think he's getting big bucks and pension money.
The 2006 referendum passed with a very low voter turnout (as usual). Somehow, someway, needed to get more eligible voters to the polls to just say NO. After 30 years in this area as a taxpayer, I have paid my debt to the machine.
Why should children be locked into a one-size-fits-all, government-knows-best model of education? This BB and Metea stuff is a joke. Somehow under $100M for a school without all the ammenities is not good enough for IPSD 204 and makes me sick.
Dear Brad 204,
Absolutely their are advocacy groups. Every 204 vendor, law firm, bank, local construction company and others (many of whom thought they could personally benefit from the building of the school) helped market the $125 million 3rd high school to the naive and uninformed with threats of split shits, overcrowding and the tried and true "it's for the kids". But, the real money comes with the next referendum. Because the district has no money to operate the 3rd high school, they will be back with another referendum before you can say lickity split and that will require another $15 million per year, year after year after year.
Let's note just a few of those that gave to the YES vote campaign:
Whitt Law - 204's law firm which is making millions and millions off 204 taxpayers fighting Brach/Brodie
Oxford Bank & Trust - District 204 School Board memeber Bruce Glawe is the Chief Executive Officer, President of this bank.
Aramark Management Services - ARAMARK provides food service management to over 420 K-12 public and private school districts throughout the United States.
Sodexho - Serves the needs of more than 400 school districts, similar to Aramark.
Wiseman-Hughes Enterprises - a homebuilder in the Chicgoland area
Ryland Homes - a homebuilder in the Chicgoland area
Laidlaw Education Servces - Bus Company
Source: The Illinois State Board of Elections
Aramark Management Services 2300 Warrenville Road
Downers Grove, IL 60515 $5,000.00
3/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Bogart, Sandra 3803 Royal Portrush Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $1,000.00
2/22/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Buck, Stuart 1520 Winberie Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Clow PTA 1301 Springdale Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Crouse, Howard 30W250 Allister Lane
Naperville, IL 60563 $250.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
D'Addario, Elizabeth 2324 Wellsley Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
1/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Datz, Jack 3131 Treesdale Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Doody, James 2351 Fawn Lake Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Edwin Anderson Construction Co. 9526 W. Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176 $1,000.00
2/18/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Fort, Jaynai
Occupation: Housewife
Employer: N/A 2875 Parkwood Lane
Aurora, IL 60502 $1,000.00
2/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Gregory Middle School PTA 2731 Salix Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/24/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Gurtz Electric Co. 77 West Seegers Road
Arlington Heights, IL 60005 $14,000.00
2/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Havala, Toni 3107 Treesdale Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Hughes, Michael 4020 Winberie Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $25.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Hughes, Michael 4020 Winberie Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Hurlbert, Sandra 2733 Seiler Drive
Naperville, IL 60565 $200.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Ivy Ridge Homeowners Association 2508 Blakely Lane
Naperville, IL 60540 $250.00
2/6/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Kimball Hill Homes 5999 New Wilke Road
#504
Rolling Meadows, IL 60008 $1,000.00
3/15/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Kings Court Builders Inc. P.O. Box 5070
Naperville, IL 60567 $500.00
3/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Koulos, James 4220 Kings Hill Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Koulos, James 4220 Kings Hill Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
1/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Laidlaw Education Servces 9714 South Route 59
Naperville, IL 60564 $5,000.00
3/9/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Mason Contractors 306 W. Campus Drive
Arlington Heights, IL 60004 $500.00
2/18/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Moser Enterproses 300 East 5th Ave.
Suite 430
Naperville, IL 60563 $500.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Neuqua Valley PTA 2560 95th Street
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/21/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Nicholas, Arthur 930 Emerald Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $1,000.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Nicholas, Arthur 930 Emerald Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $500.00
3/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Oxford Bank & Trust 1111 W 22nd Street
Suite 800
Oak Brook, IL 60523 $1,000.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Patterson PTA 3731 Lawrence Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Ryland Homes 1141 E. Main Street
Suite 108
East Dundee, IL 60118 $2,500.00
2/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Schumann, Carl 3799 Baybrook Drive
Aurora, IL 60504 $250.00
2/9/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Schur, David 1401 Monarch Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Scullen Middle School PTSA 2815 Mistflower Lane
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
3/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Smith, Andrew 821 Thornapple Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $100.00
3/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Smith, Andrew 821 Thornapple Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $100.00
1/28/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Sodexho School Services 3020 Woodcreek Drive
Suite B
Downers Grove, IL 60515 $1,000.00
3/14/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Spring Brook Elementary PTA 2700 Seiler Dr.
Naperville, IL 60565 $200.00
3/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Taylor, James 4040 Winberie Ave.
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Welch PTA 2620 Leverenz Road
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
2/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
White Eagle School PTA 1585 White Eagle Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Whitt Law 105 E. Galena
8th Floor
Aurora, IL 60505 $1,000.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Wiseman-Hughes Enterprises Inc 975 East 22nd Street
Wheaton, IL 60187 $2,000.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Zoet, Gary 2356 Fawn Lake Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids
Wow, so glad I'm in Oswego :-)
Stop with this nonsense. The arrogance of this school board is unbelievable. The money in hand won't run a new school, as they don't have funding available to hire teachers and equip the buildilng. With declining enrollments and the outlook for a protracted pull-back in the housing market, lets abandon ship on this ill-conceived concept. Naperville Central has been using "portable" classrooms effectively for many years, and, if that's what we need to do to ease overcrowding, then, so be it.
Yes, these groups (Craft-Like groups) are also supported by some people who believe the earth is no more than 6,000 years old, that everyone should be home schooled and that girls should be married by age 14 and having babies year after year with no need for an education beyond the 8th grade because she needs to know she can never be equal to a man and has to know her "proper place in life".
If that's what you prefer for your kid, go right ahead and support those groups to your heart's content. I believe the majority of D204 residents want something that is a little more "this century" for their children's future.
Dear Anonymous,
Approximately two weeks ago the Oswego newspaper stated that District 308 was about to begin a re-districting, or new school boundary process, to re-align the school boundaries in preparation for your third high school.
Please do not repeat the mistakes of your neighbor to the east.
It is A FACT that Plainfield is finishing their 4th, that is right 4th!, high school for their students. It is named Plainfield East High School. Drive down Plainfield/Naperville Road near 119th street. None of this greed and being cheap on taxes to forfeit their kids education. In fact, all of their elementary schools have air-conditioning even. Yet because we try in Naperville to accomodate those residents who are concerned on where their kids will go, or how much taxes are needed, these fence sitters have forfeited all of our kids opportunities in both academics and athletics as well as have risked their health.
204 is now a joke next to Plainfield, IL with 4 high schools! Why can't we just do this for the kids and community everyone??? The Plainfield 4th high school opens in 2008-2009 and we in 204 still can't agree to pay the price. The school board should just do it! I CHALLENGE everyone to drive by the Plainfield 4th high school, then spend a day in both WVHS and NVHS when kids are trying to walk through the overcrowded hallways during passing periods. I think this should be a requirement of anyone who wants to vote no for our kids.
FYI See their 4th one here http://learningcommunity202.org/PEHS/
Hey Naper Mom - move to Plainfield: problem solved!
So if we put the no high school and future boundary debates to the side for a second. Because unless someone finds some legal way to undo the referendum then the no high school debate is a nice theoretical discussion but the train left the station. If there is a legal way, then let’s do it :) As for boundaries, well those will be fluid regardless where the high school goes. I’ll be more than willing to toss my gang (I mean sub-division) colors and fight it out at another time.
Take those two issues off the table and are the people like myself that are disturbed by the costs and a lack of direction really on a different side from the people who are clamoring for the new high school to get built, “for the kids”. Yet it seems like the “for the kids” group is 100% behind the current process and therefore the board. Even for those who we are saying just do it. The board will need more money if they stay the course. Right or have I read all the articles wrong? Even if we get a new trial and win can not BB come back and perform a similar exercise. Can this not ping pong back and forth for years?
I think we all know the situation. We can not afford to build WHAT was planned or WHERE it was planned. Also, unless some serious additional costs are incurred is does not really sound like the third high school can be built WHEN it was planned.
So, it seems like it would be really nice if maybe we could stop tossing silly barbs around the table and turn that energy towards the Board of Education. We should be untied in asking the board for the detail across all four options that includes: (They can even add a fifth for the continued legal battle with BB.)
WHAT will be built
WHERE will it be built
WHEN will it be built
(I am branding it the “3Ws for the 3Rs” campaign :) )
And if an option surpasses the 125M mark then we should get a realistic estimate for the cost. Then as always, the board can come back to the people and we can decide to do it or not, “For the Kids” via a vote.
Can we all agree on that? And can we all agree we want some progress rather than more lawsuits?
Hey Naper Mom: I think that it should be a requirement of anyone who wants to vote yes that they need to kick in $5.00 each towards my new tax bill.
Hey Joe: Your last comments were really low and uncalled for.
mm,
Call them what you want, but I was relaying topics of conversations I have had with many of the members over the past 7 years.
According to your post above, you just found out about them less than 24 hours ago. I would consider you to have 0 knowledge of the actual people who make up those organizations.
Hey Brad: I've got some answers for you: 1)A new HS will be built. 2)It will be built on the BB land 3)It will open in 2010, but we'll keep telling people 2009. Weren't you paying attention at our secret meetings??. Come on get with the program. See you at the next meeting. Don't forget the secret password and handshake needed to get in. Take Care. MM. P.S. Don't forget the cookies and milk, because its always "For the kids".
If I, and more people like me, did decide to move to Plainfield, whose property values do you think would begin to suffer most?????
Yes, you and everyone else in 204. Because anyone in real estate knows that what has kept our property values high in the area has been the outstanding school district and education. HOWEVER, if the word continues about overcrowded schools, lack of athletic opportunities, sweltering, humid and unhealthy elementary classrooms with no a/c, and still high taxes, our property values will sink whether we have kids in high school or not. So for those greedy people who want high property values but to not invest in the schools which feed into those values, you are dreaming. I am considering seriously that if something does not happen soon regarding this third high school I will consider moving. It is not worth it to see my children suffer as well as risk a overall flight from the area that results in decreased property values for myself and everyone in 204.
Dear Naper Mom,
Yeah!
See ya!
Hey Naper Mom: If you leave our taxes will go down and the little kids will suffer! That's not really kid friendly is it? Remember lets do it for the kids!!!!
It is interesting how Joe always tries to steer the conversation away from the facts; 2 years of declining elementary school enrollment, land 2x what the district told us, plenty of space at COD available for any bubble of students, etc...
I guess this is what you do when you have no facts and can not look objectively at your own failures and confront them in a factual, practical manner.
Joe seems to think that money grows on trees and taxpayers are suckers to be violated again and again.
Hey Joe:
Don't assume what you think I know.
Hey Naper Mom:
Don't let the door hit you in the back side on your way out.
Sam Adams,
No one has come up with what happens to the children in the private K-8 schools that have been sucking away children from the elementary school level either. Their enrollment will not all fit at the private high schools around. Some will come back into D204 high schools, though many residents are in denial thinking that they won't.
It also seems rather pointless to be talking over and over about a jury awarded price of over 518K/acre when there's really nothing to talk about. That was the number that came back. The district should find land at a better price (elsewhere or negotiate back w/ BB if they do not drop their price we go with land B).
Please show the rest of the District exactly what COD offers in the way of a full high school curriculum in order to handle this 'bubble' you speak of. If you are going to place students there, they need to have an equitable high school education. My understanding is that COD is a college, not a high school.
mm-m2,
I know you were trying to play dumb about being clueless of the groups I mentioned by acting like their web sites were some new-found revelation. I also notice you do not deny that some in those groups hold the beliefs I outlined either. It's been really funny and sad at the same time to listen to them ranting and raving when they mistakenly believe they are in the company of other like-minded people.
I also know you are not the mm-m2 you pretend to sign your posts as. One really has to wonder about why someone wants to sign their posts to a public blog using a school-board member's initials when it is more than obvious you are not them.
So please, drop the child-like games.
I am jsut gonna post this section of my last comment one more time
"So, it seems like it would be really nice if maybe we could stop tossing silly barbs around the table and turn that energy towards the Board of Education. We should be untied in asking the board for the detail across all four options that includes: (They can even add a fifth for the continued legal battle with BB.)
WHAT will be built
WHERE will it be built
WHEN will it be built
(I am branding it the “3Ws for the 3Rs” campaign :) )
And if an option surpasses the 125M mark then we should get a realistic estimate for the cost. Then as always, the board can come back to the people and we can decide to do it or not, “For the Kids” via a vote.
Can we all agree on that? And can we all agree we want some progress rather than more lawsuits? "
Nothing is ever approved 100%. At least 40% of the people vote against even the most popular presidential candidates.
In this case, a vote was taken on the third high school. Not surprisingly, for any number of reasons, a lot of people voted no. But they lost. A lot more people voted yes.
This blog seems to have developed into a place where those who voted on the losing side can vent the same arguments they had when the vote was taken. Other than some name calling and some self-righteous recitation of half truths, nothing is being accomplished here. The fringe of the losing side of the debate (as determined by the election) can continue to cry and moan in this echo chamber of therapy, but I do not see anything else being accomplished.
Then again, based on the Sun's "prompt", that seems to be the intended purpose anyway.
Thanks to Tim West once again for his childish attitude toward District 204.
Hey Joe:
Want to play checkers??