Naperville Potluck

I think it is truly embarrassing that we have a SB president that will stop at nothing to pursue his agenda of building Metea on the BB parcel.

I love how he blames the voters for the increased costs because they rejected the original referendums due to lack of boundary information. If he had it his way, he would have forced the taxpayers to pay the increased land cost if the quick take action had been approved.

He clearly has an agenda, as seen with the new motion filed to try to force this BB parcel to work despite the fact that continuing this fight will cost more legal fees. He does not have the best interest of 204 taxpayers in mind at all.

Who voted for this guy anyway?? Is there such a thing as impeaching a school board member?

This would bo commical if it was not real life. What's another few miilion to prove once again private landowner rights mean something. And I assume we can say 2009 is off the table.

If the School board has all this money to continue to fight for the BB land why can't they finally hire a professional demographer to determine if the 3rd high school is really needed. With the enrollment numbers way below the projections provided to the public to pass the referendum, don't we think it is about time they start doing their job and get accurate projections from professionals. They certainly don't hesitate to spend money on lawyers or surveys. Maybe they should go back to looking at an addition at NV. It certainly would be much cheaper and then they could spend some of that money from the referendum on education programs to help educate the children rather than more bricks and mortar.

I have a legal question. Is the School Board obligated to build the high school? I mean, could it legally say, on second thought we've decided it can't be done for this much, we just won't spend the referendum money? I know they can't use the funds for any purpose other than building a third high school. But is the district in a situation where it MUST spend the referendum money? And what if the referendum money isn't enough to get the land and building, then what? Could a judge order the district to build a high school without athletic facilities or other features tht the district says it can't afford if it ends up spending so much for the Brach Brodie property?

Did I miss something? I thought the article clearly said that the BB site was not under consideration.

Forget the 3rd high school. We now have 2 years of declining elementary school enrollment and the district is more than 1000 students behind their ridiculous projections; it is time to cancel it and move on.

Mike,
The article said that 4 sites are in the running. BB is still one if the price ever comes down or 3 others sites. I assume that the other sites include the church land north on Eola and the Ashwood land west of 248th but I am not sure were the 3 location is.

I want to know what sites they are looking at and 5 or 6 schemes for boundary layouts for each site.

Is it the role of the Naperville Sun Editors to frame the issue or slant the issue? It's very clear what the position of the Naperville Sun is from their statement of this issue.

The referendum only authorizes the district to issue bonds to purchase land and build a high school. The district has sold those bonds so they have all the cash. You are on the hook to pay those back over 20 years. It would seem logical that the district could use the money to retire the bonds and cancel the 3rd high school since it apparently is not needed.

I would vote for a referendum for A/C if they canceled the 3rd high school.

If they continue down the path to build an empty 3rd high school, I will most likely never vote for a 204 referendum again because it will be clear the district can not be trusted.

The school board has screwed up but the administration is also to blame. Folks in administration should be coming out and publically stating the school isn't needed.

Napervillian,

I agree I would like to see some cost data. My guees is we won't see it for some time. And while I am not in support of continued bb land strategy I am happy the SB is taking a step back and taking more time.

However the second part of your request is the type of request that has gotten us to where we are at. How about we focus on building a school and then have some professionals come in and set boudaries. Make it a mutually exclusive event.

Right! Why would the teachers (who belong to the union) come out and say that the school is not needed, when if they just keep their mouths shut, they get more teachers hired, more union members, another new facility for some (if transfered). It's a win win situation for them. They will never say that it is not needed. I went to the open house for NVHS at the beginning of the year and almost every teacher expressed a hope that the new school would be built so overcrowding would be eliminated.

Am I the only parent here who agrees with the school board on this decision? I feel the board is absolutely right in saying no to that ridiculously high price set on the Brach-Brodie land. Their inflated price is almost double what it should be. I don't think any developer would consider paying over half a million per acre to even build commercial sites on that property. The Brach Brodie people are trying to take advantage and gouge the community. If they decide to sell it for a fair price then we should pursue it. But if not, the BB people can let the land sit there forever and rot for all I care at that price.

I would be in favor of the 3rd HS if it really did reduce overcrowding. But it will not. NVHS still would have arounf 4200 kids even with the new HS. That is why I voted against the new HS and will vote against the funding referendum. My niece goes to a HS in a suburb of Chicago where their total enrollment (1170 kids)is less than the amount of kids in the NV Gold building, and they are in a HS bigger than the main NVHS.

Hey brad 204: It was a joke. Take care and see you at the next meeting. mm

I do not think anyone argues with you on that point Concerned Mom. I think there is a growing number of people who are a bit tired of a land process that requires lawyers, lobbyist, and state senators. The 5th amendment clearly states, “…nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation”. We have a choice to pay the just compensation or move on.

Here is an excerpt from a note from Mark Metzger sent over the summer:

“Tuesday morning, Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson called another
meeting on the subject of Metea Valley High School. Their disappointment at
the tactics of the landowners' trial lawyers was exceeded only by their
collective dedication to finding a way to open Metea Valley in the Fall of
2009. They recognize the urgency of our situation and their commitment to a
rapid solution was apparent.

Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson have now had a taste of the trial
lawyers' tactics with which we have done battle for several years. We
believe that with their help, the rest of the Senate will promptly provide
us with a legislative solution to our problem.

While it is still too soon to declare victory and begin moving earth, we
are encouraged by the progress being made in the Senate. For that, we owe a
debt of gratitude to Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson.” [END QUOTE]

It just amazes me given what is going on with the state government our senators had so much time to get involved. Also, such a comment as, “Senators Holmes, Hultgren and Halvorson have now had a taste of the trial lawyers' tactics with which we have done battle for several years.” I believe those trial lawyers were trying to protect Brach Brodie’s 5th amendment right.

I assume doing another legal filing is a tactic to stall the process. But a good tactic unlike the Brach Brodie’s bad tactics, right? Are we still doing battle or are we going to negotiate with someone?

hehe, my bad Napervillian. I'll put my fangs away :)

Once again the school board is needlessly spending our hard earned tax dollars! This time on a frivolous lawsuit over the cost of the bb land. I am sick of this and feel that a 3rd high school is not needed. When will the madness end? Where is the Dough Boy when you need him?

How in the heck does the SB think the new HS will be open in August of 2009. What are they smoking???

Napervillian,

I agree I would like to see some cost data. My guess is we won't see it for some time. And while I am not in support of continued bb land strategy I am happy the SB is taking a step back and taking more time.

However the second part of your request is the type of request that has gotten us to where we are at. How about we focus on building a school and then have some professionals come in and set boudaries. Make it a mutually exclusive event.

Give up the third high school and the BB property. This is the worst site in the world for the third high school that we don't need. Howie Crouse and the school board has their own agenda. They messed around with the boundaries to scare everyone when this all started. Isn't it a shame that the very same school board in control of Wabonsie used it to scare people that their children might go there. Or, are the children from Naperville Too Good to go to school with Aurora children.

Taxes are too high anyway, and I am tired of paying, and paying, and paying for the school boards own personal agendas and screw ups. If I ran my business like the school board does, I would be out of business.

For the kids, @ $ 518,250 an acre…What a bargain!

http://naperville-tv.com/2007/10/26/for-the-kids-518250-an-acrewhat-a-bargain/

I say junk the whole idea of the third HS, cut your losses and pay the Brach-Brodie lawyers the $4-6M and be done with it. If NVHS is so overcrowded, bring in some trailers to handle the overflow.

Several school board members have kids in Waubonsie. Some bigots may be scared to go there, and some ignorant people may have even used that tactic to get what they wanted on boundaries, but I don't see why you would say that the "school board" tried to scare people about it, Mr. Lueck.

I continually hear about "agendas" of school board members, like there are some dark, secret plans they all have which they are all trying to trick everyone into allowing. Whenever I see someone write that kind of thing, it strikes me that the person has no idea what they are talking about, but saying it makes them feel better about themselves in some way ... you know, at least they don't have a bad thing like an "agenda" underlying their opinions, right? Exactly what that agenda may be, who knows. Mr. Lueck, you say they have them ... well, what are they? Surely it cannot be that they have come to the studied opinion that a third high school is needed for future growth and they are trying to get the school district in a position to meet that growth. If you have a different opinion based on less information and study than them, it must be because they have a hidden "agenda", right? Transplant says that Metzger "clearly has an agenda" wanting to put the high school on the BB property. What does that mean? Trying to do what they said all along they would try to do is some dark "agenda"? Ironically, Transplant says this when Metzger has given the strongest indication yet that they may put the school elsewhere. Just what are these "agendas", what proof do you have of them, and what is it that make having that "agenda" bad?

As is frequently the case in such blogs, the facts don't matter. The people who first voted down the referendum because they would not approve it unless they were sure their kid went to the desired school, causing the option for the BB property at the original reasonable price to be lost - the problems now with the price of the land isn't their fault, right? And then the people who approved the second referendum after the squeakiest wheels got their way, approving the taxes which the school board could not levy on its own - nothing is those voters' fault either, right? Surely they were all mindless zombies acting at the school board's will. The people who did not vote at all - again, not their fault, right? Everything is the school board's fault, right?

Right?

Kevin has it exactly right. The wording of this original post by the Naperville Sun editors is outrageously worded. When all is said and done, look back on it and I bet half the presumptions of the entire post will prove to have been false. There's a reason local editors like Tim West are thought so poorly of. This is just one example among thousands.

A short while ago, I posted my thoughts as Napervillian but see now that another person has been using that name here. Sorry for any confusion.

Whatever happened to the Macom property at 248th and 95th that was offered to the school district in October of 2006?

Too bad they didn't take it seriously at the time. If they had, the third high school just might have been ready by 2009 and according to the school board president, we'd have saved 8-13 Million dollars (the cost of delayed construction).

I sure hope that property is still under consideration. What on earth could be the roadblock now?

Egos? Let's hope not. What else? It's still available and should be considered.

The public schools are a government sanctioned monopoly with limited competition in Illinois. The county townships are reassessing us HIGHER EVERY YEAR including the Wheatland Township quad year to support the money vacuum. With the housing bubble and decreased property values unfolding in our neighborhoods, is ISPD 204 going to push for reassessment DOWN EVERY YEAR to save the taxpayers money or keep us HIGHEST till the next mandatory quad assessment in 4 years? Can schools live with less money in a deflating housing market? It's all about academics, right? How many of us taxpayers benefit today from posh pools and sports fields in our adult lives? My high school was 3 floors, rectangular, no A/C, no pool, no homecoming fireworks, no SUV's in the parking lot, but we got a solid EDUCATION. Heck, the IPSD 204 computers are newer than the ones in my house and at work, no fiber optic internet connections, the bathrooms at work are much uglier than any IPSD 204 schools. Somehow without IPSD 204's vision, my generation put man on the moon and designed/built the skyscrapers of America. Get back to the basics, stop the dooms day scenarios, boundary wars, get the ACADEMIC trailers out and deal with them bolted to NVHS right now if overcrowded. Now that quick take is done, does anybody think IPSD 204 actively supports vouchers as a viable alternative in the Illinois legislature? Back to square one, we can do better for every child (poor or rich), the future of America, abandon BB and the 3rd HS idea once and for all. Checkout http://theeducationrevolution.blogspot.com/2007/09/end-public-school-monopoly.html

Why do people insist on saying that a third HS isn't necessary. A third HS is needed...we are overcrowded today. Current enrollment in District 204 is approximately 50% greater than in 203, yet our HS infrastructure and capacity is relatively the same.

Yes, Enrollment has not kept pace with the SB's projections. However, Those projection were completed before we were hit with a slumping real estate market. This shouldn't be a surprise to most people. There are are still 1,000's of acres of undeveloped land within 204's boundaries that will be developed with residential housing as soon as the real estate market turns around. What then...more trailers? South Naperville will look like a trailer park. I think our kids and property owners deserve a lot more for the taxes we're paying.

That being said, it is embarassing, no wait...shameful, that we have the funds, but no where to build. The SB should have been working on a contingency for this a year ago. Most professionals would be fired for such an obvious oversight!

While District 204 is slowly squandering the last $125,000,000 they borrowed on quick-take, lobbyists and attorneys, they are already planning to fleece you again.

District 204 officials wants to spend $17,000 of your hard earned money and blow it on a survey to determine if they should push yet another referendum. This time they want to borrow $45,000,000 to install air conditioners at 19 elementary schools that don't have them.

According to Frigidaire.com, for this same $17,000 the district could purchase 53 12,000-BTU air conditioners at a price of $319 each.

The features include electronic controls with remote control, ionizer/electrostatic clean air filtration and temperature-sensing remote controls.

A real business person could probably get a discount on that price or get additional units for free due to such a large bulk purchase, but not district 204.

And the district wonders why voters don't trust them.

Meanwhile, district 204 elementary school enrollment has declinded the last 2 years in a row 2 year decline of 284 students. By the time the 3rd high school is ready in 2010, it won't even be needed.

Remember what Howie Crouse told us in 2001?

‘[District 204 administrators] also predict that student enrollment in the district eventually will level off and then start to decline. They estimate the high school population would fit back into [the main campuses of] Neuqua and Waubonsie around 2020…[by] 2010, [we] predict high school enrollment will peak at 8,800 students. If this happens, officials say they don’t want the district to be stuck with a high school that isn’t being used… We’ve seen what’s occurred with other districts having empty high schools with very little utility. A high school, which would be much larger [than a freshman campus], likely would be difficult to sell…[I]f the schools would be over capacity for several years, school leaders would explore various options to deal with that...building additions then or having some students take a few classes through nearby colleges.’

Daily Herald, 2/17/01 (quoting Howard Crouse, then Associate Superintendent)

G4 dude,

The reason we say the 3rd high school isn't necessary is because quite simply, it isn't and never will be. Elementaty school enrollment is declining, see for yourself at

http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf

See all those red figures? Elementary school enrollment has declinded 2 years in a row. The 2 year decline is 284 students.

Now, see the district's projections where they tell us the district is going to be overrun by new students.

http://www.ipsd.org/newsevents/news_item_detail.asp?id=5768

They said that "For the next 10 years, kindergarten enrollment will stay relatively stable".

Wrong again, K enrollment dropped again this year to the lowest level in years.

Model 1 was to generate "4,000 new students over 10 years".

Huh? Enrollment is declining. Are they going to bus these students in from someplace? They aren't here.

The district models were NEVER correct, they were based on bad assumptions and inaccurate growth projections.

Enrollment has peaked and the bubble of students will have passed by the time any school is built and possibly opens in 2010. Hopefully, the district will come to its senses and cancel the 3rd high school as it will never be needed.

Peterson elementary school can hold 850 students but is only 50% utilized and in order to find those 400+ students the district had to close Wheatland elementary school and move them to Peterson, otherwise Peterson would still be sitting their empty.

The district can not even learn from its past mistakes.

Even Joni Hirsh Blackman told us that if we built a 3rd high school it would end up empty and a waste of taxpayer money.

‘It is easy to say that Indian Prairie should build a third high school. But that decision was made years ago. At this point, time is too short for the urgent need and land is too expensive. Besides that, even if all those obstacles could be overcome, the ‘third high school’ eventually could end up the white elephant my high school was…[my own high school] opened in 1970, large enough to hold more than 2,500 students, but the enrollment never reached much more than 1,600. Districtwide, enrollment peaked at 12,500 and then began to decline [closing in 1981].The school district tried to sell the building. But for years, it sat there…[b]ut as I’ve listened to the debate around me in the past several months, I’ve thought a lot about what a waste in taxpayer money it all was.

Joni Hirsh Blackman, Naperville Sun, 2/11/01

Yes Paul, and back many years ago Microsoft's Bill Gates was quoted as saying no one would ever need more than 640K of memory in their computer. Do you need more than 640K today?

Relying on an old out dated quote now that newer and better information is known is naive at best.

As for your Frigidaire epiphany, how long do you suppose they will last, how much would install and reworking of the windows be and how much power do you think they will draw? According to the people who studied the power draw, they eliminated the room AC's as a potential option because no school has the power capacity leading into the building to support that electrical load. Increasing the electrical capacity would cost too much as would the ongoing power consumption above and beyond a whole-building solution. You would have known this if you paid attention at the School Board meeting on 10/22/07.

As, for Napervillian | October 26, 2007 06:49 PM comments.

Blame the public?? I know this whole voting this is annoying. Maybe we should try a totalitarian model :)

We are where we are. I think the majority of people sat through the quick take and the trial in a civil manner. But the quick take failed and trial was lost. And I can only talk for myself but I was a tad bit horrified we just started looking into other options after we lost. That seems a bit like only applying for one college. It has been clearly stated time and time again that 2009 is the must have year for opening of the school. In fact, the whole quick take was pushed because 2009 was it.

Is the board an evil empire? Naw, they are just citizens doing a job that does not pay. And I would agree having M2 as a board member and also as a member of the state school board is a good thing. However, at a certain point we do look to our leadership to provide direction, right? err, right? :)

Since there has been no real data of any kind of course the blogs are going to run feral. For instance, did you notice that the land updates on the District 204 website were only current till 10/2 until this Friday and all of a sudden there is a 10/16, 10/23, and 10/26 update. And probably the real reason they did not get out there was because some web programmer forgot to publish them. I do not know maybe getting those earlier would have been helpful. Or for instance, I find it odd that the superintendent has not said a single thing publicly about what is going on. Does that mean he is secretly against it or just wants to stay away from it or more likely it just means nothing :) But there ya go in a vacuum of knowledge the ideas will spin.

People are blaming the press for a slanted view point but the press seems to be the only people the board is talking to. Maybe we should have a public forum. See, the public still thinks there are three other viable options on the table. Maybe they are not viable. For instance, maybe Macom is profiteering and not really offering a good deal. I imagine they are a motivator seller but they do not exactly have a Boy Scout history in Naperville.

Government never feels good when it’s moving quietly. Or again we can go for that totalitarian model.

One last time for the Metea mess:

Known - In 2006, voters approved a $124.7 million tax hike to pay for the new school. The school board has already promised NOT to ask for additional money for the project……….

SB President Mark Metzger:
- "Given the growth in material costs and anticipated labor cost increases, the only options for building on Brach-Brodie within the available proceeds involves substantial reductions in the building, such as eliminating the pool or the athletic facilities,"

- "We believe the community expects Metea to be a full-featured facility, making those options unacceptable."

Taxpayer:
Excuse me President Metzger, but perhaps what this SB believes and what is now possible can no longer co-exist. Is the cost of materials going down or are they going up? Is the labor cost declining or is it escalating as this decision lingers? When was it mandated that every high school be required to have a swimming pool? Will the student read better, learn more math skills or better understand the Constitution because they can swim a few hours a year in the pool? Please, explain to us again what this debate is about, education or building another ostentatious display. I know it will be difficult but perhaps a pool or a football field can be shared don’t you think? If it isn’t about education any more, I don’t want to pay any more. If parents demand these accoutrements, assess them an additional $500.00 per year or whatever it costs to pay for it and let the majority of us just pay for what is needed to EDUCATE the SD student.

SB President Mark Metzger:
- Even though there are other possible sites for the school, President Metzger believes pursuing the Brach-Brodie site is still worthwhile.

- Other sites , "Each has negative aspects that cause them to be ranked below Brach-Brodie," President Metzger said. "Except for the price, Brach-Brodie was and continues to be the least-wrong site.

- If this SB continues to pursue Brach-Brodie is a 2009 opening as originally planned really not entirely off the table President Metzger?

Taxpayer:
Unless the crack SD retained legal team is offering their services pro bono, I would suggest this Board really consider just facing the music and move on from the “least wrong site”. What the SB had originally decided to be the cost of land was proven wrong, so now how deep do you want to dig this money pit? How rich does this SB want to make these lawyers? Anyway, it could be several months before a judge decides whether to EVEN GRANT a new trial.

Perhaps this time we can all act like adults: restructure the boundaries amicably and end this issue both prudently and economically.

Time to dedicate more effort into exploring the other three potential sites don’t you think? Hey, does the offer made by the Macom Corporation appear more enticing now?

I moved to this area because of the schools. I have been here an entire year and they haven't broken ground on the third high school. The current ones are sooo overcrowded! The kids can't even make it on the teams because too many kids are trying out. This is just pathetic. Pick some affordable land and build a damn third high school already!