204: All-day kindergarten

I question why you think that this is such a great thing. As a parent of a kindergarten student, who has been exposed to two and half years of preschool, and is more than ready for school, five days of school is a new thing to nearly all of my child's peers. Kindergarten is about a first exposure to being a citizen in the school; not about babysitting. And, I am not sure where you are pulling stats about full day kindergarten being a norm at anytime. I think it is sad to see kindergarten being made into daycare, because they serve such different needs. Most Kindergarten students take naps, eat multiple snacks, (as well as lunch), that is a lot to put on a kindergarten teacher... as well as the additional time it takes them away from family, siblings, and other settings.

My oldest is currently in kindergarten and I think all day kindergarten would be a good thing. There is so much material to be covered in the kindergarten year that I think it puts an enormous amount of pressure on the kids and teachers to fit it all into half a day (and still have time for fun!). Although it sounds like a cliche, kindergarten is the new 1st grade! I am regularly amazed at what they are learning. When I was in kindergarten, we did not learn to read or do math. It was mostly to learn socialization and basics like letters and numbers. Now kids already know all that from pre-school, so the curriculum has adapted and become more advanced. This change will ease the pace of their day and create more time for fun activities. All of my friends and family outside of the area have all day kindergarten and their children are thriving! They were concerned about the schedule going into it, but now they love it and so do their kids!

I can't believe we don't even know where the 3rd high school is going and the administration has decided to focus their time and effort on this.

So now we have enough space for this? Art on a cart and increased class sizes are the new normal? Not to mention that we are still 10% from build out so even if we can fit it in next year, what about in 5 years?

Golly, only a paltry $7 million to subsidize the custodial needs of the dual income parents of SD 204! That’s a heck of a deal! I know I know, it’s only going to cost each taxpayer a mere $5.00 per day or whatever so it’s certainly affordable by all. Now are these new full time “students” going to be “learning” in the schools already equipped with AIR CONDITIONING or is this just going to an additional ploy to exacerbate the existing tragedy? Hey, how many AC units could be purchased for this $7 million anyway?

Tell me again why the taxpayer is being compelled to help finance the baby-sitting bill for those that perhaps can’t afford the kids, or where they live, or parish the thought, their life style. By the way, I along with Tara am unaware of any time that all day kindergarten was the norm.

There is absolutely no valid reason for SD 204 to even contemplate the all day socialization of 4 year olds. Tara has it categorically correct – this is STUPID! When the h*ll are parents going to assume the responsibility of raising their seed instead of warehousing them at every opportunity. Spare me the “it takes two incomes” cliché. When these parents have one car, one TV, no mobile phone, no Starbucks card, etcetera, I’ll listen as long as there is only one child.

I love the: “What about Dist. 203? It certainly seems to have the money to fund the all-day program. And shouldn't it be made available to all Naperville families, not just the ones in 204?” Gee, how about those of Aurora, Lisle, Bolingbrook and Plainfield also in SD’s 203 and 204? Are they also worthy? Talk about being pretentious!

Yah, SD 204. I just wonder what’s next for this asinine SB.

Tara and Mayor, I agree with you.

Parents will see this as a way for everyone to pay for their need for a 'break' so they can have more 'me' time or a relief from 'expensive daycare'.

The kids will get lost in the herding. The supposed claim is for earlier intervention but with increased class size and attrition on the kids at that age, I don't see it providing any benefit.

1/2 days have been working for years here and our students have gone on to do wonderful things and our schools have won many awards. If it's obviously not broke, don't fix it.

I can't believe people are against an all day kindergarten. All over the world, children are starting full time school at the age of four. Sorry Tired, you are wrong about the age being four. Kids start at age five here. So get your facts straight, because I am tired of misinformation being spread by people like you. It is no wonder we are falling behind in this world.
As the mother of three children, my youngest will start kindergarten in fall 2009. His social skills are already being developed in preschool. He will NOT be pulled away from his, siblings or family. And yes, the stats ARE correct. Most areas of our country DO have all day kindergarten. Please come out of the box. Because our children are expected to read by first grade, two and a half hours for kindergarten does not cut it. Oh and I am a stay at home mom. I am NOT looking for babysitting, which by the way if you would like to see my tax bill is NOT free by any stretch of the imagination. I want my child to have the best education possible. That is why we moved to Naperville when we relocated from Europe.

As far as aAir conditioning, bag it. It is not a right nor should it be expected in this time when energy is such a precious resource. It is a luxury, not an entitlement. I would prefer to see my tax dollars go to education rather than some dumb air conditioning unit. And yes, I lived without it for many years, and rarely use it now.

Michelle,

If your expectation is that the school will teach your kid everything they need to know and will ensure that they are reading without any further support at home; that all day Kindergarten will just magically catch everyone up, you are greatly mistaken. Kids who get the supplement and extra attention at home do better than those that do not regardless of how much time they spend in a Kindergarten class. There will be kids who need the extra help all through elementary school and even into middle school and some into high school. Each kid is unique in that regard.

There is the old saying that we parents like to use... "If everyone else jumped off a bridge...."

Nationally, 2/3 of all kindergarten students are enrolled in all-day kindergarten. Thirty states currently provide a full day's funding for all-day kindergarten. That includes Alabama , Louisiana , Mississippi , Iowa and Wisconsin.
(per the Minneapolis Foundation website where there is a bill to fund all day kindergarten state wide),

Note that our neighboring states fund all day kindergarten and our students are expected to learn the same material in half the time.

This is NOT about babysitting. It is about academics and being the excellent school district we claim to be.

Abby,

How do our high schools (filled with kids who had half day K) compare against our neighboring districts or states who have full day K ?

Is there that much of a gap that it's a crisis, or are they right there with them, or even above them in a lot of cases?

If there's a problem, let's fix it. But right now, we've been shown a solution, and they seem to be backfilling the problem to justify the solution.

I would like to bring up the space issue again.

How are we going to fit this program in our schools?

Something is going to give. Is it class size? Is everyone going to be happy that their kid is getting lost in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades in classes of 30+? Is that the best for the kids as a whole to have all day K at the expense of overcrowding our schools?

We need to see the tradeoffs involved with making this work in our schools. If we do need additions to make this work, then please be honest and up front about it. If the long term solution is giving up the music / art / computer lab rooms and increasing class sizes then we need to know.

I'm not surprised. I have kids at NVHS and it's really more like college than HS. Really, you should see the expectations / work load. I'm not surprised by what 204 is doing.

As a resident of Aurora and in D204, I am pretty offended by the remarks made by the editors. "The question is - why just Dist. 204? What about Dist. 203? It certainly seems to have the money to fund the all-day program. And shouldn't it be made available to all Naperville families, not just the ones in 204?"

As pointed out earlier, 204 is made up of Aurora, Naperville, Bolingbrook, and Plainfield. District 204 is NOT a Naperville school district.

Following this logic, the city of Naperville should be offering D204 free land to build Metea Valley. What Naperville? I can't hear you.

I have no idea if all day kindergarten is a great thing for D204's schools. Some children are ready for it, some children need it, and others do just as well to stay home for half a day.

Joe,
I guess I can't answer the question of high school to high school comparison. I'm not sure all-day K has been around long enough. It is certainly a fair question and there is research that states all-day K kids do better on standardized testing, but I'm not sure at what grade level. Ultimately, I think our kids are learning the same thing, just under much tighter time contraints. Is that worth $5-6 mil (amounts in today's Sun)? I suppose not, but you can't fault a parent for wanting what they think is best for their kids. The Asst Superintendent indicated in the Sun that up to $7 mil of the cost will be offset by additional state aid. That makes it seem like it is free...which we all know can't be true!

I do agree that I am not sure I would go for it if class size increased dramatically, but I already know of kindergarten classes of 28 kids (in 204). So class size seems to be the luck of the draw. Our school topped out just above 30 per class, so they had to add a section giving us great class sizes. If a few kids move, we will have huge classes for 1st grade!

I am only trying to give the perspective of one kindergarten parent. I just remember being blown away at curriculum night by how much our teacher had to cover in less than 3 hours each day and how they only have time for recess once a week (if all goes well). Kindergarten was not what I remembered it to be and had I not been exposed to that, I would think all day kindergarten was unnecessary, silly and a waste of money, too.

My youngest of 4 is in kindergarten. I have the opportunity to volunteer in their classrooms and LMC. On a whole these kids are NOT ready for all day school. You either have kids wound up at dismissal because they can't handle yet being cooped up for less than 3 hours or they are walking zombies by the end of the week. Some of the kids just gave up naps or just turned 5 before the cut off date. You could actually be 4 when school starts in our District given that the cutoff date is 9/1.

If you don't have a child in school full time you should not have a say about was is best for the community as a whole because you do not have the experience of having a full time student. I can't imagine where they will put these classrooms at my kids' school. We will have to give up the art and music room. These are two rooms that for some students is an area where they can excel far more better than reading and math. They can stand out from their peers rather than always being left behind.

Take time to go to your local elementary music programs and see how wonderful our music ed. is at such an early age. And don't forget to check out the Fine Arts festival and see all the beautiful work the kids from all grade levels in the district have created. The art and music is all possible because of the wonderful programs we start in elementary school. It does not happen over night.

I think our Board and Administration need to get back to fianizing plans for our 3rd HS and leave this alone. Is early intervention going to make a difference if we don't have a building to house all the current and new students.

By the way, a kindergarten is not expected to be able to read by the time they hit first grade. It's competitive parents who put that pressure on their kids so they have bragging rights.

As taxpayers we paid to have the building built with music and art rooms in the building plans. We should not give these up for a program that is not even required by the state. Kindergarten is still an option in Illinos.

This is in regards to Abby's comment.

I don't have an opinion if all day K is great or not, however, you mention that class sizes in your elementary were getting too big and they added a section to get it under control.

That is a luxury I am afraid would go away. I'm not sure about this because we don't have any data, but where are these 61 new classrooms coming from, and at what expense? Taking away the option of adding a section when classrooms become too crowded effectively increases class size to accomidate this program. I can live with "art on a cart" (not great as a long term solution) but larger class sizes will have a negative impact on all the kids in the building.

Kindergarten may be an "option" in Illinois since it theoretically is not required under the law however the reality is kindergarten is a must. Not to even mention that the State legislature and Governor want to change the status of this law. Moreover, some seem caught up on the fact that 1/2 day kindergarten was the norm when they were a kid or was the norm for their older children. But, now the norm is that our 5 year olds are expected to begin reading and writing in kindergarten. Wrong or right, kindergarten is not for socialization alone, that has become the role of preschool.

Here's a thought, how about asking our kindergarten teachers and school administrators whether they believe its a good idea for full day kindergarten. Apparently they do. I wonder whether a teacher would prefer having more time with kids during the week to actually teach the kids to read and write and in addition god forbid have more time with the kids to do fun activities. Imagine having more than 25 minutes a week for music class and another whole 25 minutes more for pe because that's what our kids get now in kindergarten. To say that this is simply "babysitting" is short sighted and a disservice to our kids.

Alison,

The K-teachers I spoke to today said that most of the K kids can hardly handle the 1/2 day before they are too wound up or too tired.

Now, try to get them to eat lunch in an already crowded multi-purpose room that is noisier than a freight train with a child to adult ration that varies between 20:1 and 50:1 depending on whether they are outside or inside during their 10 minutes to eat, 10-15 minutes outside time.

For PE class, even the full day kids (grades 1-5) only get 25 minutes on the days they have PE. That time slot is plenty to come in, find their places, do their warm ups, get out the stuff needed, explain what they are doing, go over basics and mechanics do's and dont's eventually DO something, then break it all back down to line back up and leave. I recommend everyone volunteer to help out in PE for a couple of weeks and watch how it really goes. God love the PE teachers for cramming what they can in the little time they have (again, including the 1-5th graders).

Now, if they want to actually extend this time for ALL grade levels too, then we might be headed in the right direction, but as it is proposed, it's just going to tax what is already there to the detriment of all. We need to see more actual details before implementing this. Just saying it's great does not make it great.

I can't believe people think this is a good idea. This is the time children need to be developing their imaginations and creativity, NOT learning how everyone else thinks they should do things. I have two children who never went to pre-school, only went to 1/2 day kindergarten, and the rest of the time I spent with them enriching their lives by going to parks, museums, etc. Both of these kids (sixth grade and second) are in the gifted program. They are also polite to their teachers and friends, as well as being well-behaved. I do a lot of volunteering in the school, and the behavior problems are almost always the ones who've been away from their parents the most.

This board and admin. owes it the taxpayers to spend their time securing land for 3rd HS that many of us fought hard to get. Not paying more legal fees to fight the same fight over again. The only people making out on this, as usual, are the attorney's. They need to focus on securing land that hopefully will not change boundaries because, if you recall, last winter they mentioned the need to change boundaries at the MS level. And if they decide to do this all day Kindergarten program, are we going to have to change boundaries at this level as well?

And for all those new parents out there who want all day Kindergarten, trust me that's the least of your worries for your childs education. You should be worried about overcrowded class rooms, the child in class who if he/she doesn't have their meds. is out of control and very disruptive/violent. Or the child in class who will act out just so they can "take a break" and walk the halls. School is not what it use to be. Our public schools are babysitters first and then educators. May be a reason why the enrollment in private schools are going up.

You will learn quickly that it's up to us, the parents, to make sure they are meeting the mark. Why do you think Kumon and Sylvan's are popping up all over. The teacher's hands are tied and have to put up with more than you can imagine. It is not their fault. They are wonderful and try their best, but if they don't get the support from home what can one expect. They don't get paid enough to deal with what they have to. And wait till they start MS and have to take the bus. They will be giving you an education.

Enjoy your children now and hold on to them as long as you can because once they are in school they will be exposed to more than one can imagine and it is out of your control.

Where have you people been? Elementary school(ES) enrollment is declining.

http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf

It is right there on the website. Many of the ES schools have several empty classrooms. There isn't a space issue in the majority of the ES. The district just needs to redrawn the boundaries for ES and shift some students from the south to the north. Peterson still has over 400 empty seats and that is AFTER they closed Wheatland to try and find students to fill the empty Peterson (850 student capacity, only using 450 even after closing Wheatland).
District 204 has a total of over 3000 empty student seats!
Anyone who says the district is overcrowded has only been to 1 or 2 schools and doesn't have the big picture. The district has more space than they can ever use.

Did you attend or watch Monday's school board meeting?

Nancy Young Principal in a discussion regarding enrollment and class space says that it is no problem to handle all day kindergarten at her school because she has seen enrollment drop for the last 7 years... "from 2000 to where we are at 2007 our numbers have steadily decreased over the years".

If the district was not building a $125 million empty 3000 seat 3rd high school there would be plenty of money to go around.

The D204 leadership can not be trusted, I urge you to VOTE NO any and all D204 referendum. They already spend over 1 billion ever 4 years, that is plenty.

As a district 204 elementary teacher, I have a lot of concerns with what our board and administration seem to be jumping into. I am a very strong advocate for all day kindergarten. However, there are a lot of concerns that our administrators have not looked at, or seem not to care about. The first issue that we need to look at is our space. While some schools have extra classrooms that allow for these extra classes, many schools are already full. As many other people have commented, this will severely impact class size, and take away art and music classrooms. This will take away a space that many students see as their successful place. Many students who struggle in reading and math find success in art and music. Also, with art and music moving to the classroom, this takes away from a classroom teachers time to plan lessons, contact parents, work on bulletin boards, etc. This means almost 2 hours of planning time that teachers will be missing. Yes, teachers can go somewhere else to work on this. However, all of their resources are located in their classrooms. This is precious time that teachers use to keep parents informed and for teachers to create quality lessons and projects. In addition to all of this, our district needs to learn from the past. While Dr. Daschner (our new "leader") has not experience our past, it consists of a lot of "rushing" into things. Rushing into referendums, new programs, and more referendums. One thing that our district does not do is taking time to think about the cons. There are going to be great things that come with all day Kindergarten. Let's not just rush in and have a negitive outcome. Lets take our time, think it through, and make sure that it will be as positive as it possibly can be. Dr. Daschner and our administrators need to stop trying to pass things before informing the families in which it will impact. Why didn't we send out a letter to parents in our district and get feedback before we tried to push this through in one board meeting. Thank you to the 3 board members that were not there at the meeting. This gives us some more time to truly look at the impact that this will have, and the cons that need to be sorted out before this program can be EFFECTIVELY implemented.

How can a principal of May Watts school not see the down side of all day Kindergarten? He says he can't see why a parent would choose a half day over a full day, given the competitive nature of our community. Yes- Naperville schools are competitive- but WHERE DOES IT STOP? Why not start putting our kids into school before they are 1? Are our academic scores so bad that the district feels that putting 5 year olds in a classroom for 6 hours is going to make them smarter in the end? It is hard enough for a first grader to adjust to the full day, let alone putting a Kindergartener through that. Yes, there would be more time for fun in a longer day, but one cannot guarantee that the teacher your child gets will be the type to add more "fun" time. I would bet that a child that age would much prefer spending their FUN TIME with their parent, who after all is their child's most important teacher. Kids grow up so fast- it saddens me to see parents wanting to send them off all day, sooner than they need to, whether it be for the convenience of day care, or becuase they have been influenced by our district to believe that all day Kindergarten will make their child more successful.

Dear Neighbor is a D204 Admin.

The Principal at Young was in error where her facts are concerned regarding Young Elementary.

{Nancy Young Principal in a discussion regarding enrollment and class space says that it is no problem to handle all day kindergarten at her school because she has seen enrollment drop for the last 7 years... "from 2000 to where we are at 2007 our numbers have steadily decreased over the years".}

Young's K enrollment has been each year starting with 99-00 year through 05-06 the following:
112, 138, 140, 164, 115, 131, 136

Young's total school enrollment for the same year spans including through 07-08 has been:
525, 680, 764, 880, 662, 735, 786, 743, 741

Please point out the 'steady decrease' she is talking about. While it sounded 'good' for the 'cause' at the meeting, it was certainly not factual based on the real numbers.

I was at the school board meeting on Monday night and no one would take any of the "cons" seriously.

They seem to think that there will be so few parents that want half day K that they will only offer it in a few schools. So that means putting your little one on a bus when you could be walking them to kindergarten.

I agree with the comments as well regarding - When does it stop? My boys were not ready for all day K and my youngest son won't be ready either. I now see why our boys are falling behind on standardized tests as our schools are now geared to favor girls and their longer attention span at a younger age. They will be trapped in the work/tax/death cycle soon enough, why can't they be kids a little longer?

On more comment, from the meeting. The Longwood principle stated that she will consolidate the 3rd grade next year to 2 classrooms to accomidate the program. That will put roughly 30 to a class in the 4th grade. This was not seen as a problem because (they said, without data to back it up) the benefits of all day K outweigh bigger classrooms down the line.

I wonder how the parents and teachers feel about that when there are one or two discipline problems in a classroom of 30 children.

If anyone would like to watch the meeting here is the link.
mms://media.ipsd.org/ipsd_ondemand/ipsd_live/archive_20071112.asf

My children are in 2nd and 5th. I have nephews that did attend an all day K and they did much better in school. They did have a NAP time and snack time in the afternoon, which I think will be needed. My neice comes home for K now and is hungry and a bit tired, so by having the sanck and nap time, that would be a great solution for some of the concerns. My question is we complain of the over crowding now....How can you put AM and Pm together with out over crowing the schools? I know Gerogetown has no extra class rooms, and larger classes is not the answer.
It does have pros and cons, but I truely think it would benifit the kids in the long run. I am a true believer for the kids...and I know the flooding program is helping out many students in many different ways. This would be another if we can work out the "cons."

All day kindergarten should be a choice, not an absolute. Several years ago, in some neighboring districts, lottery systems were developed because so many parents wanted the full day option when it first was presented. Perhaps the 204 SB could consider offering the option, although it doesn't seem to research/think/survey parents or taxpayers at all when it comes to anything. It's time to stop letting the SB have carte blanche on decision making that may/may not be best practice for students (the SB is not comprised of educators), or fiscally sound for taxpayers.

Concerned Teacher - as an el ed teacher myself, I am so tired of the whining from 204 teachers! Our district had art, music, AND Spanish on carts for years. If warranted by the enrollment of a given year, some schools still go back to it in order to free up a classroom. Horrors and gasps! We've also had mobile classrooms during our growing pains!! Somehow, we all have managed. I gladly have given my classroom to my colleagues for their instruction time, as well as space for them to store projects or supplies, FOR OUR STUDENTS. GET OVER YOURSELVES. It's NOT about you! Please, spare us all the poor me routine.

On a side note, nothing is more sickening than a "it's not in my contract" rally cry (before throwing flames, that was heard directly from the mouth of a 204 teacher - and yes, I know it's not all teachers). Which leads me to this:

For the parents out there, you have more power than you realize. You should be questioning why your children aren't in school even more than whether or not full day kindergarten is necessary. Your children lose instruction time every time teacher's here are given "building articulation" (I've taught for over 20 years, and I have no idea what that means)or "school improvement" days, half or otherwise. In other districts, this is actually done during faculty meetings, before or after school! Imagine that. Students in school. Learning. I for one, want my tax dollars to be paying for that.

Parents also need to stop looking to the schools to pick up the slack for lack of proper parenting.

Parents are the child's best educator. The child spends more time out of school than in school. Don't shuck that responsibility to them so quickly. There are some serious behavioral problems stemming from lack of respect for others in A LOT of kids these days. Spending that other half of the day to teach them how to respect others would go very far so that staff doesn't have to waste large amounts of time bringing issues like this under control in the classroom. These behavioral problems amplify as the years go on. Nip them in the bud early.

I support all-day kindergarten for children who are prepared for it. As a stay-at-home mom who is passionate about educating my kids, all three of my children attended preschool part-time at the ages of 3 and 4. When they turned 5, we enrolled them in private all-day kindergarten programs, rather than the 2.5 hour program that is referred to as "half-day." After observing the public kindergarten program here, I knew that it would not be a good fit for my children. I grew up out East, and I attended all-day kindergarten in the early 1970's, so I was unfamiliar with the "half-day" programs here.

Shockingly, most of the children entering public K are experiencing school for the first time. This is truly surprising for an affluent area. These children can't seem to focus, and the teacher spends much of the 2.5 hours working with children whose parents have not provided them with the basic skills they need to be good students. These kids don't know their last names, their address or telephone number. Some don't even know primary colors. They can't spell their first names, let alone write their name or the alphabet. Many of them can't even identify the letters of the alphabet or the numbers 1-10. Let's not even discuss simple math, science or geography. The overwhelming majority of children in my neighborhood have a stay-at-home parent, but these kids are usually the least prepared when it comes to their schooling. What in God's name goes on in those homes? Why aren't the parents teaching their children?

Most of you condemn all-day K supporters as wanting babysitters. That's rubbish. My perspective is different: I think parents should be willing to allocate some of their family budget for pre-school so that their children are better prepared for elementary school. My children were reading at age 3, and they were enjoying basic chapter books by the time they were in kindergarten. I'm not patting myself on the back, but I don't believe the current public K curriculum (where they learn a letter each week) would have provided enough stimulation for them. Making crafts and singing songs just doesn't cut it.

One more thing... Much to my chagrin, my children stopped napping at 2, so where are these children who are still napping at 5 or 6 years of age? Perhaps that's normal for them, or perhaps the children are bored out of their minds and could use more stimulation. I guess I would also fall asleep everyday if I were bored to tears.

Why are we trying to push our kids to grow up? I don't want my 4th child to nap at school or have his snack there. I want him home like the rest of his sibling were. Kindergartners are only 5. These are the only years we have to spend the time with them during the day--why are we trying to rush it away? They have the rest of their academic lives to spend all day in school. I for one want the other half of the day to go to the zoo, the Children's Museum, play outside, do puzzles, snuggle up on the couch, etc. I do not want that year taken away from me. The "competetive nature of Naperville" can wait another year to get started. As for the option of 1/2 day available at only some schools, why should kids have to be bused out of their neighborhoods in order to spend more time at home? Plus, when these kids go to first grade in their neighborhood, they are at a different school with different kids. How is that a good option? If people want or need all day kindergarten, there are private programs or day care available to them as options. I do not think it should be forced on everyone.

The concern about enrollment growing in the future due to build out of the district is not warranted. I noticed one of the posts references the district being 10% from build out and I saw this figure in the Sun last week in an interview with M2. 18 months ago there were less than 900 single family home sites (zoned single family) remaining in the district. There are a lot more than 9000 single family homes in the district - Oakhurst has over 2,500 alone. Even if this 10% figure includes multifamily units it's still way too high.

Trust but verify with emphasis on the later.

Did you know that over half of Illinois public schools offered full-day Kindergarten programs six years ago? The number was 62.4% to be exact. Check out http://www.isbe.net/research/htmls/kindergarten1980-2002.htm and you will see the twenty-year trend documented.

When we moved to Naperville from Wisconsin I was shocked to learn that the same district of Neuqua Valley High fame did not offer full-day Kindergarten. I contacted the State Superintendents office and asked which districts in Will and Dupage counties offered full-day Kindergarten programs. Unfortunately, they were not able to give me specifics by county, but during our conversation I was told that "the majority of the districts south of I-80 have offered full day program for years." I was not surprised. As the post by Abby stated, full-day Kindergarten is the norm in our neighboring states as well as the majority of the south.

Please, let's not use the argument that just because you attended a half-day program, or your younger child did just fine with half-day that we should not look into a new full-day option for the youngest students in our district. Are they less deserving of new programs and resources? And, of course the third high school is important, but this district is not just about high schools. I commend the Superintendent and 204 School Board for not forgetting about the current preschoolers and recognizing that 204 is behind the curve by not offering a full-day option.

For those parents who are worried that your future Kindergartener will not be ready for a full-day program, you know your child best, register for half-day. You have that choice. I'm confident that in just a few years almost all 204 pre-K parents will see the benefits and choose full-day.

Wow 204 taxpayer! If you truly read what I was stating (and as a teacher you did a poor job of this) you would have realized that I am a very strong advocate of full day kindergarten and what is best of the child. It is not a "poor me" or whiny situation. As I stated before, "One thing that our district does not do is take time to think about the cons. There are going to be great things that come with all day Kindergarten. Let's not just rush in and have a negitive outcome. Lets take our time, think it through, and make sure that it WILL BE AS POSITIVE AS IT CAN BE." Sounds to me that I want us to implement a great program, not just an average one. I'm so glad that you feel so good about how you have successfully made it through art and music on a cart. Good for you...you deserve a cookie. If we implement a great program, this may be something that we need to do. However, lets take a step back and make sure there aren't any other options.

All right, I can’t stand the whining any more. The most common thread that runs through the comments so far is that we are penalizing our children if they are not permitted to spend the entire day in kindergarten vice the still traditional one-half day. Reasons mentioned to rectify this emergency include: “There is so much material to be covered”, “kindergarten is the new 1st grade” and it goes on and on.

My first question is what ever happened to parenting? Ah, when you interact with your children, if you in fact do, what the heck are you sharing with them? Have parents now just abdicated their obligation to be their children’s teacher and mentor, you know, be a parent, to a government school? If the school environment is so academically enriching, why not start our little cherubs at three, or perhaps at even two years of age?

The overwhelming and most consistent reason reported by the preponderance of the literature for schools to offer a fiscally supportive full time program is due to the greater numbers of single-parent and dual-income families in the workforce, and to service the enrollment of children that are at-risk for school failure. Translation – babysitting and child raising, not educating.

Hey Abby, the title of a Minnesota Foundation Publication you referenced is, Why Minnesota Needs All-Day,Every Day Kindergarten. Do ya really think that it provides any unbiased information?

From the US Department of Education (2004)– “there is a direct relationship of the percentage schools with fulltime programs and the need to provide “at-risk” children with more time during the kindergarten year to acquire the beginning reading and mathematics skills necessary to succeed in school.” Got it.

The Goldwater Institute (2007) – “Darcy Olsen, president of the Goldwater Institute, says, "This report demonstrates that all-day kindergarten is not an education reform strategy that policymakers can hang their hats on. All-day k delivers short-term benefits at best."”

Rand Corporation (2006) – “Our analyses that examined student achievement through the fifth grade reinforce the notion that full-day program may not enhance achievement and may actually be associated with poorer mathematics performance.”

Do I believe that School Boards and the NEA completely support a full time program? I sure do and for all the obvious reasons. It appears to me that we are always ready to throw more money at education regardless of the reason. Phonics is old, sight reading is better – wrong! We’re teaching math wrong, we need “new math” – wrong! Out come based education is good – wrong! For cripe’s sake teaching is not metaphysics, we’ve all taught someone something at sometime. I am certainly not denigrating the role of teachers and the job they do, I’m just tired of education always trying to be innovative even when it’s unnecessary. The primary reason students are successful is because of parents that are both supportive and attentive.

I am factually opposed to full time kindergarten at this time, not emotionally adverse to it. How about we save the taxpayers’ money and wait for more pressing needs.

I question whether another high school is really needed with new home sales down. At least one builder has offered to sell his land to the district because he is unable to sell homes there. Understandably the board does not want to elongate this process, but they must provide a forum for a public discussion because the underlying criteria for spending our tax dollars has changed.

I guess you can debate all day long on the merits of all day K.

Even the district announcement states that the benefit is higher test scores in first grade but it does not mention any lasting benefit beyond first grade.

The question I'm concerned about is, AT WHAT COST do we support all day K?

We may get all of the facts and see that all day K comes at the expense of 30 in a classroom; art/music/computer lab on a cart; and PA in the hallway. Forever. (yes, I know you can "make do" and shove kids under stairwells, but is that what we want long term?) I do know the research is very definitive on class sizes over 18 in grades K-3.

Then if we decide that yes, we are willing to make the tradeoffs, great.

Contact your elementary school principle. They have made a plan to free up the classroom space. At Longwood specifically that means consolidating classrooms to bigger class sizes. Each school has a different plan to "make kids fit." If you are happy with that plan and don't mind the long term, permanent implications, then great, we have made an informed choice.

From what I saw at the meeting Monday night this is another case of the district rushing into a decision that will have $$ implications that they aren’t telling us about. I am predicting another elementary school will be needed and elementary school boundaries will need another look. Maybe rebuilding or reopening Wheatland is a possibility, or additions to the most affected schools. We just need to know.

Problem is, we don't have any of that information.

We've all read you loud and clear, Concerned Teacher. From what I can tell "taxpayer" did, too. Gotta say, your sarcasm, "and as a teacher you did a poor job of this" and "I'm so glad that you feel so good about how you have successfully made it through art and music on a cart. Good for you...you deserve a cookie," is immature and unprofessional! Sounds like there are a lot of taxpayers on this board. You might want to tone it down a bit if you want any referendums for teacher raises to pass.

I agree that all day kindergarten should be a choice, and that our school board/administration needs to stop throwing out half-baked ideas. Step back, look at the pros/cons, and come to us with a well developed plan so we can make intelligent decisions.

To Concerned Teacher: With such an acid tongue, I pray you are not one of my children's teachers. I also found that your original post had a bratty tone when it came to possibly losing your "precious" classroom space to the art or music teacher, snuck in between all of your valid concerns. If you had actually read the post, taxpayer was agreeing with you about the school board. I guess you can slam my reading skills now.

Oh my god! I got on the website and viewed the school board meeting from last week: mms://media.ipsd.org/ipsd_ondemand/ipsd_live/archive_20071112.asf
Who is that Jeannette women? She is so negitive and her body language is very obvious that she is totally frustrated. She also looks like a troll and would be an excellent candidate for Extreme Makeover. Is that show still on? It was one of my favorites!

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THIS. WHEN TAXPAYERS AGREED TO BUILD OUT SCHOOLS THEY WERE ALL BUILT WITH THE INTENT OF ART AND MUSIC ROOMS. FOR YEARS WE HAVE HEARD THAT STUDENTS WHO ARE EXPOSED TO THE ARTS DO BETTER IN MATH, READING AND SCIENCE. THOSE WHO ARE "AT RISK" WOULD BENEFIT FROM THIS ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE NOT EXPOSED TO IT AT HOME. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHY WE ARE WILLING TO GIVE THIS UP. ART AND MUSIC ON A CART DON'T CUT IT.

OUR ARTS PROGRAM IS WONDERFUL IN THIS DISTRICT. CHECK OUT ANY SCHOOL CONCERT OR THE FINE ARTS FESTIVAL AND YOU'LL SEE IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES. NOT TO MENTION THE GRAMMY AWARDS THAT BOTH WVHS AND NVHS HAVE WON.

I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE "AT RISK" KIDS HAVE MADE SUCH STRIDES IF THEY ARE GIVEN SNACK & NAP TIME AND OF COURSE LUNCH (MENTIONED IN A NEWS ARTICLE). SO I'M GUESSING THEY ARE ONLY GIVEN ROUGHLY 1 1/2 HOURS MORE INSTRUCTION TIME. AND DON'T FORGET ALL THE DAYS OFF THEY HAVE HAD SINCE THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL.

HERE'S ANOTHER GRAND IDEA........STOP WITH ALL THE DAYS OFF. CHECK OUT THE CALENDAR FOR NEXT YEAR. FROM JAN. 1 '08 TO MARCH 1, '08 THEY ONLY HAVE 3 FULL WEEKS OF SCHOOL. SO INSTEAD OF GIVING OFF EVERY FEDERAL HOLIDAY WHY NOT KEEP THESE KIDS IN SCHOOL. NO LAW SAYS WE HAVE TO GIVE KIDS THE TIME OFF.

ALSO, DURING THAT TIME WE WILL START PREPPING THEM FOR ISAT's WHICH MEANS WE PUT OUR DAILY CURRICULUM ON HOLD SO WE CAN DO BETTER ON TESTS. HERE'S ANOTHER NOVEL IDEA....TEACH WHAT THEY SHOULD KNOW AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO DO THAT!!!!!

IT'S TIME FOR THE TEACHERS UNION TO GIVE UP A LITTLE TOO. WHY CAN'T THEY HOLD MEETINGS AT NIGHT. FOR PETE SAKE THEY HAVE LESS THAN 9 WORKING MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR AND ARE PROTECTED BY UNION WHICH MAKES IT VERY HARD TO GET RID OF DEAD WOOD. WE ALL HAVE TO WORK PAST THE CLOCK AND DON'T GET PAID OT. WHY HAVE WE TREATED TEACHERS AS IF THEY ARE MORE SPECIAL THAN ANYOTHER WORKING CLASS CITIZEN.

TIME FOR DAESCHNER TO GO DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW AND THE BOARD CAN BE HIS TEAM OF HORSES TO PULL THE SLEIGH!!!!!!

I think all day kindergarten is a great idea and one that will help integrate our children into grade school at a much faster rate. Being the mother of 5 children (3,4,9,10 and 13)I also think it would be a tremendous help for me in my everyday life. Having my yopungest home alone while the 5 year old is at kindergarten would allow me more one on one time.

Ashbury Mom:

One less child would also permit more one on one time with your four year old.

The comment supports the one made by many - all day k's primary impact would be as a babysitter.

Jim,

Let's don't make this a religious issue! I have the right to have a s many children as I desire!

Ashbury Mom:

I said nothing regarding religion and yes you certainly may have as many children as you wish. Actually my daughter also has five children and manages to do just fine without asking anyone to subsidize a need for baby-sitting.

My comment only pertained to all the studies I have reviewed regarding all day k . They all point to its primary rewards being an assist to single parent or dual income parents as an off set for childcare and, to assisting at risk children. As you stated Ashbury Mom, all day k would be "a tremendous help for me in my everyday life" and it would allow you “more one on one time” with your youngest.

Not one word about religion, not one!

Jim,

You are such a silly willy guy. Why you getting so upset about noting. Look at the good edukashun dat I got from my all day kindergaden. Dont cha no.

Ashbury Mom, I thought your post of 19 November had already illustrated your “edukashun”. I am bewildered by many in IPSD 204 that think the average taxpayer is going to meekly stand by as this SB suggests $124 million for a new school SOMEWHERE, $50 million for A/C, that problem amazingly only discovered after building the ostentatious Neuqua, and now a paltry $ 7 million for all day k. At some point one has to take the time to determine the depth of the well because the well “ain’t that deep”.

Try reading some of the posts regarding the perceived indiscriminate spending of both SD 203 and 204. Do ya think that at some point the word “NO” might be employed. Apparently many taxpayers think so and have simply just had enough!

After living here for 13 years, I am embarassed to say I live in Naperville. People are rude, selfish, highstrung, overspent, envious and greedy.

I've seen land in Aurora, mysteriously become Naperville i.e "Tall Grass", "Heatherstone", and parts of "White Eagle".

I've seen Neuqua built and now overcrowded.

What makes this place so great. I know now...it's a rumor that this place is great. Just because a school is located in Naperville doesn't instantly make it a great school, but that is what people believe and will fight hard for.

Until someone tells me that all of Yale, Harvard and Stanford are made up of all Naperville students, I won't buy into this rumor.

In the meantime, I can't wait to move out of here. I have to get out before my kids reach high school. I look forward to moving south, where the schools are great, the weather is great and I can buy a house for less than $320k and my taxes are only $3600. You know, somewhere where they actually make it affordable.

Oh, by the way I will be paying for this house in full. See, thats what happens when you buy a house you can afford and STAY in it, along with a 15 year FIXED mortgage.

Anyway, so long suckers. You're allowing Naperville to pimp you. I've been pimped long enough.

....and you are whining about all day kindergarten. You bunch of whiners. You should be thanking God that you have another day just to breathe!

Vicki, can't speak for the land in TG or WE but I know in Heatherstone the address is an Aurora address. The problem is people who live in this neighborhood and others around this area, i.e., Stonebridge, don't like to say Aurora. If you ask them where the live they will say Naperville.

One other thing, not to sound so petty and Jr. Highish but I think everyone south of 88 needs to head to the North Shore and see what true affluence really is. Naperville isn't what they all think it is. Yes we have a few areas with beautiful homes. But drive along Sheraton Road. That's money and affluence. Naperville is just another city, like many others out there, where some people are fortunate and others are strapped to keep up with the Jones'.

Worrying about affluence, image, or keeping up with the Jone's is a complete waste of time.

There will always be someone better off than you. There will always be someone worse off than you.

Worry about something more important in life that actually matters.

Anonymous - I agree
Joe - I agree

I just have to get outta of here, before my kids thinks this is "place" is the norm. They have experienced the southern states and love them.

I have neighbor who says they only lease cars because, 'you can never own one' and 'you can never pay off your mortgage, so we are going to get a bigger house and finance another 30 years'

I just don't understand this line of thinking. We have 3 cars, all bought new and all paid for. Two are 13 years old and one is 6 years old. One may not be the best looking on the road, but they are great cars and we paid for them. I thought that was the whole idea - OWN.

To each his own, I guess.

A great book to read is "The Millionaire Next Door". Most are just your average guy, still married to his wife of his youth and living in the same house he originally bought.

I am no where near rich, but what is so wrong with living beneath your means.

Vicki,

I think it might come down to not really understanding who one's self really is. Stuff is just that: stuff. People tend to create an identity for themselves using 'stuff' and that becomes their life.

The person who can sit alone w/ nothing and be happy is living life to the fullest, IMO.

I am getting sick reading all of these entries! First of all, D204 HAS DECIDED to go with all day kindergarten - so stop fighting about it! Also, if your child still takes a nap, sippy cup or cannot be seperated from their mom that long then they are not ready for kindergarten at all!!! If you want to hurt your child (socially) by sending them to 1/2 day at a different school, not with the kids they will go up to 5th grade, that is YOUR choice! For those of us who agree with the decision that D204 has made, it does not mean we are looking for babysitting! If you cannot let your child go, it is you who is not ready, not your kindergartner!

I am getting sick reading all of these entries! First of all, D204 HAS DECIDED to go with all day kindergarten - so stop fighting about it! Also, if your child still takes a nap, sippy cup or cannot be seperated from their mom that long then they are not ready for kindergarten at all!!! If you want to hurt your child (socially) by sending them to 1/2 day at a different school, not with the kids they will go up to 5th grade, that is YOUR choice! For those of us who agree with the decision that D204 has made, it does not mean we are looking for babysitting! If you cannot let your child go, it is you who is not ready, not your kindergartner!