Another body blow for Dist. 204?

Trust this board? You're kidding right?

Give it up. Enough with the Broch/Brodie. Move to another site for the third high school WHICH IN NO NECESSARY !

School board has already wasted too much of the taxpayers money as it is on the Brach/Brodie property.

Hear me now school board --------- Grow up and give up your private adjendas on this issue. You should have never even put any money down on the property to begin with and it was a clever ploy on your part to start to play with the boundries and scare the people that they might have to go to Waubonsie. It was a very clever way to get the second referendum through.

Another point, is that if YOU the School board were doing the job you were suppose to be doing, people would not be afraid to send their kids to "Aurora" or is it the fact the Naperville thinks their kids are too good to go to Aurora.

I am tired of the over spending by the board and my outrageous taxes. Have you looked at your latest tax assessement ??

In closing, WE DO NOT NEED THE THIRD HIGH SCHOOL. THERE ARE MANY OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAT COULD BE DONE.

If I ran my business like the school board does, I would be out of business. But you the school board are clever in the fact that you come up with some ill fated excuses for more referendums.

We have some of the largest enrollments in our high schools. Anyone who cannot see that a third high school would help alleviate overcrowding and afford more opportunities for our children for extra-curriculars and academics has their head in the sand.

I think the biggest lesson to be learned is "be careful what you vote for".

Despite what language was on the ballot at the time of the 06 referendum, voters were driven to the polls because the district heavily marketed Brach Brodie as the location and a set of boundaries (admittedly used by the School Board to gain support for the third school) that are out the window at this point.

We were completely mislead!

Could it be the Opening Fall 2009 date on the following web page is not correct. (http://www.ipsd.org/3hs_index.asp) Gosh, I am so shocked :)

Hopefully this signals the end of the legal process and we can move to resolution. Okay, well I thought the legal process ended in September but that was a bad assumption. At this point, I could not even begin to guess what that resolution might be.

It’s now January 9th, 2008 and we will still do not know when we will have a school, where the school will be, and what the school will be. Regardless of all the back and forth those are the facts and it’s truly a mess.

The district has plenty of space for current and future students.
It currently has over 3000 excess and available school seats.
Peterson elementary school alone has over 400 empty seats and that was after the district closed Wheatland to try to find some kids, any kids to partially fill this brand new empty school building.
The district can not admit its mistakes and now they will make a $150,000,000 mistake building an empty 3rd high school?
How will they find students for the empty high school? They will close WVHS gold campus. That makes no sense.
This school year elementary school enrollment dropped for the 2nd year in a row for a 2 year decline of 284 students.
The 3rd high school will never be needed, is a waste of money and is a fraud perpetrated on taxpayers. The school board and administration are incompetent.

Thank goodness that boneheaded quick take that Joe Dunn supported never passed in Springfield. The taxpayers would have been on the hook for another $17,000,000!!

Folks, we can not deficit spend ourselves into prosperity. When will we wake up and say enough is enough to elected officials who waste our money like drunken monkeys!

Remember during the last school board election when Mark Metzger paraded around town telling everyone that the district would get the Brach-Brodie property for $250,000 an acre and the district did not need to operate like a real business and get competing bids on different properties? He made fun of the other candidates who suggested the district should be talking to multiple parties and have a plan B and C or look at alternatives to spending $150,000,000 on questionable 3rd HS?

Who is the town idiot now?

Tom, are you actually suggesting that Peterson Elementary use its 400 empty seats to take the overflow of high school and middle school students?

Exactly how should the district go about doing that while offering them an equitable curriculum? They've not been able to figure that out even though many people have continually made such assertions about there being "plenty of space". If you can give them the game-plan for that I feel fairly certain they would try to make it work.

This is wiggity wack like Eli Hodapp. Naperville has got to get its priorities straight or they're going to fall off the education totem pole to lesser areas in the state.

Word to Big Bird.

Naperville taxpayers you elected this school board...Mark Metzger and the like should never have been re-elected.They truly have their own agenda's and not those that are in the best interest of the taxpayers. Unfortunately, my vote was not enough to prevent his re-election as well as others. Don't ask to be reminded when it is time to vote again. You get what you vote for!

There are a number of other locations in the area that could accommodate a High School campus that would not command the higher price of purchasing prime retail property. 248th Ave/Wolfs Crossing, 111th/Essington/Naperville Rd, 111th/Rt.30. Any three of these locations should price at the 250k/acre.

I still believe that the Brach-Brodie property is the only place they ever considered and the only place they ever will consider. Naperville, you elected these self serving jerks to represent you and they couldn't have done a more miserable job so far. First they pushed a third school in a built-out city with declining enrollment and then when they were rejected they drew some inefficient and ludicrous boundaries and dangled the carrot to Some sorhtern Naperville neighborhoods (many in Will county)just to get the funding. The best thing they can do is make a dicision! The wisest thing we can do is clean house in 204.

Please show up at the next school board meeting to provide your input! That's all you can do at this point in the process.....

Hey NapervilleTransplant - the 10% of SD 204 residents that BOTHERED to vote got what they apparently wanted while the 90% that were just too busy to participate perhaps got what they deserved!

By my count so far there are seven opposed to a new HS, two for a new HS, two appear neutral and one was unintelligible. Anyone want to bet what the SB will do?

Dear Uncle Buckeye,

The SUN ran an online poll a month or 2 back. The vast majority favored canceling the 3rd high school.
There is no doubt that if the district had another referendum and asked the same question, the 3rd high school would be voted down.

Just imagine all the books, teachers, and computers $145,000,000 could buy? Heck, for 1/100th of that cost we could rent some portable classrooms until the last of the bubble of students passed.

I think the IRS should audit the tax returns of every school board member.

Not sure if my first attempt made it though or not...With (arguably) declining enrollment, no large land parcel available to build a $150mm HS, and no operating budget if it was built (everybody up for one more referendum?)how about we we think creatively?Howie Crouse didmissed this idea out of hand when it was brought up-Why not investigate a Magnet School/Math and Science academy? It could house apprx.1500 students with a focus on Advance Placement type curriculum. It would require an entrance exam to qualify. It could be built on a smaller parcel with a smaller scale all the way around. If centrally located it could serve the entire district. It would even cost less- now that's a novel idea

What kills me about both District 204 and the City of Naperville is the amount of money they are spending on legal fees. This is where the IRS should come in as one blogger suggested.

In the District 204 case we are talking 5 million dollars! In the 90's Napergate Case a few million dollars were spent and all the records were lost! Unbelievable! In the Fursteanu Case we have not even started and both sides agree it will easily go over a million bucks with the implication being all taxpayer money since Furtenau has an attorney working on contingency!

It just seems like lawyers charge more if you have deep pockets and the District and City are not doing anything to protect taxpayers from money hungry lawyers.

To understand the insanity of these legal fees one has to look at the opposing sides. For example it has been doucmented in newspapers that the Napergate Man fought the city for the nearly the entire 90's decade and all the way up to the Illinois Appelant Court for a cost of roughly $200,000 dollars. And he WON! So how can he get attorneys to fight these long battles for 200k and win against powerful City Hall, while we taxpayers get attorneys that charge $5,0000,000 and lose! Does anyone see something crazy here? And the Napergate Man was a defendant so it was not a contingency case! In other words he had to pay up!

As someone older I recall another battle in the early 80s in which the Napergate Man fought another battle with the city that reached the Supreme Court of Illinois where it was determined the city abused their discretion in dealing with him. He won that 1st case too! I don't know what that case cost as it was not as heavily publicized as the famous Napergate Case was in those non-stop full page Naperville Sun ads. But I do know he was a very small business owner and he did not have millions to give to attorneys....obviously...we have a no brainer here!

So I am just coming to the conclusion that both the city and District 204 are mismanaging their legal costs. In the case of District 204 more so than the city. Five million dollars and it still has not even be appealed. Ludicous! I hope our newspaper does an investigation why the Napergate Man can fight City Hall for a few hundred thousand while the City and District 204 always need millions and millions to litigate. Something is simply not adding up!

As far as the NON-LAWYER solution and since land is so expensive just knock down Naperville Central instead of remodeling for part of that 85 million and build a larger school that is a few stories higher with larger enrollment capacity. That is what everyone does when land goes thru the roof...you build the roof higher. Has anyone been to London, New York or Hong Kong lately...well I have and they build the roof a little higher as land goes thru the roof.(pricing wise in case I am over anyone's head here)

I understand NCHS is in District 203. So what! Just make all of Naperville one single school district and keep all Napervillians in safe Naperville Schools. Let Aurora have Waubonsie Valley High School exclusively in return for contributing to the building of a new NCHS. All students will be in there respective towns where the parents want them. (I can't stand phoney parents who will not admit the real reason they don't want their kids going to WVHS!)
For the record I live in District 204 and I am glad my kids do not go to WVHS but I support the parents who do not want their kids going there!

Finally, I want to conclude that what is most upsetting to me is how so much money can be wasted on litigation by government bodies while an individual like the Napergate Man can take on these governmental bodies and only spend 4 or 5 cents on each dollar they spend. This would be a great investigative story for the Naperville Sun. My feeling is they will find MAJOR INCOMPETENCE somewhere if they remotely try and if the records are retrieved before they are destroyed as in the Napergate Case. The "missing records" were discovered to be missing by editor Tim West of the Sun when he decided to do some serious investigative reporting ONCE IN HIS LIFE that I can recall! Common, Mr. West, let us go for seconds...you got the talent, resources and proved you are very capable! PLEASE HELP!!!

Unfortunately, the 5 million in legal fees listed above are the defendants (bb trust) fees. We the taxpayer will paying those when we finally pass on the bb property. These costs are only estimated. Of course we do not know what the district's fees are for lawyers and land consultants. Boy having a lawyer running the school board has really been a win win for law firms.

>>What kills me about both District 204 and the City of Naperville is the amount of money they >>are spending on legal fees.
>>This is where the IRS should come in as one blogger suggested.

And then these law firms give money to support the next tax referendum, which in Naperville's case is every 2-3 years. Take a look at who gave money to the last 204 referendum to build the empty high school. Whitt Law and every vendor that does business with 204 funneled more than $50,000 into the vote YES campaign to raise taxes again. And who had been advising district 204 with regard to trying to use eminent domain to take the Brach-Brodie farm from its rightful owners?
Yep, you guessed it, Whitt Law. It would have been faster if we just dumped 10 million down a rat's hole.

Why doesn't Britt Carson do an article on all the money 204 has spent on attorneys, lobbyists, and Mark Metzger traveling to and from Springfield every week?

District 204 spends more than 1 BILLION every 4 years. For 15 million we could have built an addition at one of the high schools and it would be ready by now instead of blowing it on 2 years worth of attorney and lobbysist fees.

Kitchen204,

I completely agree, it is a lot of money for a whole lot of nothing to show for it so far and many of the contributors seem to have loop around ties to what they support. It's always good to look up on the state websites who is giving to what to figure out what their motive might be.

With regards to the additions, I don't ever recall seeing a plan for additions to NVHS (where the population growth was) and even recall many parents complaining that even with additions that the common areas would not have capacity. I admit, I am only going by a multi-year old memory at this point but I never understood why that was not pursued further to at least have data to back up why it was never feasible.

I fear it's going to get ugly out there when or if they finally announce a definitive location and subsequent boundary tweaking that will have to accompany it.

Anonymous 1:59 PM,

I thought your comments were a bit harsh, and thought about not publishing them. But after reviewing McFarland's comment I could see where it would prompt an emotional response, so I'm allowing your remarks.

Brad 204,
I believe that if the high school isn't built, part of the original deal was 204 had to sell the property back to Brach Brody for what they paid for it. If that is true, then that should offset about half the legal fees they will have to pay.

Anonymous,
I really don't think it is the quality of education why some people in Naperville have an issue with WVHS. It is more the fact the school is located in Aurora. I am sorry, but when the Aurora Beacon has stories every week about gangs shootings, murder,drug dealers, drugs and the like, people have a tendency to shy away from being associated with the town.

Host,
I wish you would have blocked anoymous's post.

My commnents that upset him were strictly related to the fact that more drugs and alchohol is moving around WVHS than NVHS.

It had nothing to do with arrogance. It had a lot to do with how the Naperville and Aurora police depts. differ.

My friend who has kids at WVHS and was outraged because his 2 teenage sons were exposed to alcohol and marijuana. When he called the Aurora Police Dept. about the drug problem in the school, the police officer said there are a 100 kids selling small quantities of marijuana and we can not arrest them because the kids who are selling it are constantly changing. A moving and rotating sales force of sorts. His 2 sons have already fallen to the peer pressure in that school and smoke and drink.

My kids are scared of death of the Naperville Police Dept. They arrest these marijuana and alcohol sellers and users immediately teaching them a lesson early. They make time to get the job done! I am proud of them!

Aurora considers this a low priority issue because they have to deal with many murders a year, gang activity, and basically do not have time to chase these mobile 100 marijuana small time nickel and dime dealers. So yes, I don't want my kids going to a school like that where the police are not in control or look the other way. I am a strict father but I am also smart enough to realize what peer pressure in these schools can do to your kids.

I like it that the Naperville Police Dept is willing to neutralize this pressure. I know they have a policeman working full time in each school in Naperville. I forget to ask my friend if the APD has a police officer full time at WVHS.

I have nothing against kids from Bolingbrook, Plainfield and Aurora coming to NVHS. They are good kids and kept in check by the NPD. Of course the kids that go to WVHS are also good kids but they are more likely to succumb to the bad peer pressure of the minority because the APD is not willing to spend the time and money to counter this peer pressure as the NPD is willing to do.

Having explained myself, Mr. Host, I would like you to reconsider posting Anonymous's Post and removing it. He did not even have the courage to use a name and he borderline slanders and libels me.

He should have asked me for clarification before attacking me if he was not sure what I had in mind!

And he missed the entire theme of my letter. Which is why we can not find a way to keep our legal expenses down in these huge litigation battles like the Napergate Man was able to do during his long battles. I was writing mostly from the angle of let us keep our costs down. Let us build additions to our schools and keep our kids in town if we can.

It had nothing to do with arrogance. It had a lot to do with shorter bus drives and a police dept. that cracks the whip on youngsters and teaches them a lesson early in life. Sometimes that early whip cracking keeps a kid from joining a gang at an older age. He/she learned his/ her lesson young.

My letter was about discipline and had nothing to do with arrogance. My letter was plenty long and I could not cover all subjects in one letter and expect people to read encylopedias.

Anyway Host Ted, I think your initial hunch not to publish was the correct one and you should have stuck with it. I was taught in school not to change your initial multiple choice from your initial hunch if you are guessing. I think that was a lesson well learned for me. Stick to your initial hunch and don't second guess yourself. This anonymous guy was way off!!!

Mark,

Those are probably the same sorts of people who might consider filing a lawsuit against the school board if a land or boundary decision is made that they "don't like".

1. Why is a new high school needed if enrollment is declining.

2. Five million in hard-earned taxpayer money is blown so far on legal.

3. Why were boundaries shown for the new high school in the bond issue. What would the vote have looked like if boundaries had not been drawn. I bet that bond issue would never have passed.

4. If enrollments are in fact increasing, why not just put additions on the two current high schools? It would save tens of millions of dollars.

5. Metzger is an incompetent and overpaid blowhard strutting around like he knows what he's doing.

McFarland,

Upon further review, I unpublished the comment because you're right, it was too much of a personal attack.

My reason for thinking it was OK to publish is that I'm interested in exploring the issue of Neuqua vs. Waubonsie. Personally, I think both schools are excellent institutions, Naperville and Aurora residents should be pleased about the quality of education provided at both schools. I have nieces and nephews who have graduated from each school. I thought aside from the personal attack Anonymous was trying to make a point that there is more diversity at Waubonsie, and how that is a positive thing. I would agree. Your point about Naperville vs. Aurora police is interesting, because I've been trying to understand this sentiment by some in the community that Neuqua is somehow favorable to Waubonsie. I know that sentiment is a root cause of some of the volatility over boundary discussions.

Jack,

Have you considered directing your questions to the school board? Metzger's e-mail is Mark_Metzger@ipsd.org

For the record, Metzger is not overpaid. School board officials thanklessly volunteer their time and are not compensated, unlike many other elected positions.

McFarland,

You are saying that from your previous post:

"(I can't stand phoney parents who will not admit the real reason they don't want their kids going to WVHS!)"

Meant the real reason parents do not want their kids to go to WVHS is because of the difference between Aurora and Naperville Police Departments? Or was it that for whatever reason that WVHS has stronger peer pressure than NVHS because NPD somehow 'neutralizes' that pressure when a student is within the walls of NVHS ??

I'm confused exactly what that 'real reason' was from your first post. Can you please clarify that very briefly because your second post seemed to be bouncing all over the map and I could not easily pick out the 'real reason'.

Thank you in advance.

Joe,
I think you understood my reasons perfectly well. Both reasons you mentioned are correct, interrelated and inseparable!

Those are my reasons! If other parents have different reasons those are not my reasons. But my acquaintences and friends site those same reasons to me.

If you have teenagers it is very simple to understand what I am talking about. If you don't it may not be so easy.

I hope I am clear and please don't start an argument with me by dicing and slicing words. It is too early in the morning for that.

I think the host also understood my true intentions. It had nothing to do with arrogance. I am a middle class person.
I live simple, eat fast food, don't own jewelery, buy used cars, shop at Target and Kohls,(never been to Neiman Marcus or Saks Fifth Ave and have no desire), have a 2200 s.f. home with a mortagage, and trying to save money to get my kids thru college. I go to a restaurants twice a year and some classes idiot is calling me arrogant.

I am also a thinker. I am one of the few on these blogs who can reconcile the Napergate Man with the Naperville Police Dept. and think they are both awesome and did great for the city in their different roles and capacities.

Need I say more!

Host,
Thank you so much for removing that libelous post! You guys are doing a great job and I like how you guys are always receptive to doing the right thing on these blogs. You guys have no egos. IF Dick and the City did not have egos we would have a much more peaceful world. I guess you can call me a middle class guy with views right down the center!

McFarland,

I certainly did not want to make any assumptions about your reasons as someone else did. This is why I asked for a clarification to clear that up.

It does sound like the problem of the WVHS perception among people who do not go there could be solved with a full time police officer and more 'cracking of the whip'.

For the record, I do have a teenager that attends WVHS as do my neighbors and they also have older kids who've graduated from there and gone on to places like Northwestern, Harvard, etc. Forgive me if the "unsafe school" persona seems a bit foreign to those of us who have children attending there.

There was a survey of students and parents in 203 and 204 last year with regards to substances and their results are published here: http://www.thepowerofchoice.info/ under 'data'. While their results do show there is usage amongst all of the high schools, it does seem to be that each school has their own small subset of students who choose to engage in such activities, but the majority of the youths do not. When one looks at the parental survey results one can see the lower than expected number of parents who do not discuss (or establish) family rules with regards to substance use, setting curfew time outside of that which is legislated or even waiting up until their teen comes home.

From those results, it looks like the whip needs to be cracked more at home because HS students spend only 15% of the hours in a year at school and the other 85% of the hours in a year outside of school. What happens with 'peer pressure' for the other 85% of their yearly lives? Who is responsible then?

With respect to 'gangs', I have to put this forward:

Back in October, there was a Fox Valley Showcase dance concert at the WVHS auditorium. The opening act was the WVHS dancers performing a very classy remix to the popular Pink Panther theme while dressed in black while wearing wide bright pink neck ties. The second act was the NVHS group performing a Hip-Hop number while dressed in Hoodies, baggy pants and other gang/thug wardrobe. Many in the audience (including myself) were slightly puzzled why such a theme was performed by a high school group. Don't get me wrong, there was some incredible dance talent on that stage regardless of theme, but each group had the freedom to CHOOSE their own act in the performance.

It just seems puzzling to hear about concerns for 'gangs' while a representative dance group for NVHS does a routine set in a gang theme that appeared to glorify the lifestyle.

As has been pointed out in the past, most people are not without an agenda of some sort. These arguments were interesting maybe in the beginning, but now its just beating a death horse.

The larger problem here is the district made some decisions that are now in question. Decisions that were based on facts that were not true. (Example: Land Price) We have had almost three years to see statements the board made be found false. And we are no closer to a final decision. There is absolutely no excuse for the situation we are in. None! These pre-holiday interviews with Mark and the superintendent by local press were softball city. I really wanted to scream when I read about how the district thought it was unwise to have other options. How they can just shrug off the fact they were so dead wrong.

Someone earlier said we should then show up at the board meetings for support. Yeah, been there done that. If you want to be treated like a ungrateful, out of touch resident and be pushed aside like you do not mean anything go to a meeting. Mark has made it pretty clear in both word and deed that he does not feel like public input is necessary. Even after multi-year delay, huge court fees and property values in a constant state of limbo because no one has a clue what the district will do.

I am also sick and tired about hearing about how the board works tirelessly for free. That free gets me an email response that says I really can't answer your quesitons because I am so busy and I do not get paid. Yeah, thanks Marks that is awesome!

I also would not call the horrible decisions and drawn out process something we got for free. Maybe we should pay some people to do this job well and then put in some checks and balances so they can be removed when they don’t.

I just posted this on one of the 203 referendum posts, but here I go again:

Oswego has built a new grade school in Oswego, and junior high in Plainfield, scheduled to open in the fall. It appears that new building has slowed so much, that they are considering passing a proposal to shutter both schools and not open them. The grade school is built to hold 750 and would only have 145 students next year?

Which High School would SD204 close, if needed, a few years after Matea is built? It would be a huge ongoing operating expense to keep three high schools open, if only two were needed.

I'd like to invite everyone who is interested in an ongoing discussion of the issues and challenges District 204 is facing to participate on this discussion board which has been going on for 2 years. It is sometimes referred to as the "ProBoards"

http://ipsd204.proboards76.com

All are welcome
EagleDad

McFarland, I heard on the news this morning that Naperville police busted a house that was having underage drinking parties. Also, this very same newspaper had an article in it about a year ago in regrads to all the gang problems at NNHS. Yes Naperville North. So if you want to have schools in your town without any gangs I guess you'll have to get rid of North.

And in case you didn't know gangs, drugs & alcohol are in every school. The difference is some have money and others don't. Some wear AB&F and others don't. A gang member is not defined by one who wears BB caps and baggie pants. It's also the preppy dressed kid hiding it all. When you live in an area where money comes easily to some teens that's where the drugs come in to play.

Talk to your police force who secretly followed Naperville teens into the inner city to buy drugs. These cops were quoted in the paper as being feared for their lives. Along with the Chicago cops that rode along with them. Check the archives of the Tribune. It was a couple years back.

And the rest of the community needs to know that Aurora is not overrunned by gangs. Yes it does have gangs but so does Naperville. And that is why police forces from both Aurora and Naperville along with all surrounding communities have combined forces and all have special task forces that work strictly on gang violence.

And I'm sure your "friend" is wrong about the Aurora police telling it's citizens they don't care about drug use. They take every crime serious.

Joe, I agree with you on the Showcase. Why would a school that does not cadone gangs allow these young girls to dress and dance like one. It certainly does not represent the school on a positive note.

Tired of the bickering! wrote "And the rest of the community needs to know that Aurora is not overrunned by gangs."

You are joking right? Are we talking about the same Aurora, the one in Illinois?

I am not sure if this is a case of denial or thinking that no one in Naperville reads the Beacon, but every week there is a minimum of one murder, drive by, stabbing, drug bust, etc.in Aurora.

I seem to recall not too long ago a big bust of the Latin Kings who have a major operation in Aurora.

As far as Naperville's gang problems, most of them arrive from the west.

Dear Tired of the Bickering and other Hostile Bloggers,

You guys are really off subject. My initial blog was about why the Napergate Man can fight City Hall to the Supreme Court and win while District 204 and the City spend millions on legals fees and lose. I wanted to know why government spends insanely on lawyers. I am a middle class man and these taxes are killing me. I wanted the Sun to do an investigation on how the Napergate Man can take government bodies to the Supreme Court and beat them for 200k while the goverment bodies needs 5-10 million for the same or similar kind of battle.

But off the Napergate Man and on to the new subject you guys want to discuss.

I agree with RJ there is a denial of sorts going on here. I have been reading papers for over 25 years. I have read about over a hundred gang murders in Aurora. I do not recall reading about one gang murder in Naperville. To believe Mr. Bickering, you would have to believe the Chicago Tribune, Sun-Times, Naperville Sun and Aurora Beacon fabricate the news. If you are so smart Mr. Bickering, I challenge you to name a single resident in Naperville killed by a gang member from Naperville or for that matter from any city including Aurora or Chicago.

And your remarks that the Naperville Police busted a party that was having underage drinking to dispute what I am saying is borderline retarded. That is why I said I prefer the NPD over the APD because they bust these parties and teach the kids a lesson while they are young. Do you not read English? Are you really that dumb!

Please cite these articles about gangs in Naperville North. There has never been a gang killing in NNHS in the last 25 years and possibly ever that I can recall. Now there are always idiots in every school that play the role of wanna-be-cool-pretend-gang-member. I am sure NNHS and NCHS have a few idiots. But have they ever killed or maimed anyone? The answer is no! The NPD straightens them out before they get too far and most go on to college to become accomplished students.

Having said that, Aurora is full of good people and intelligent students. But it has a 10% bad element and I do not want my kids exposed to it or risking their lives. And my kids are not allowed to go to Aurora except the Fox Valley Mall. My kids are too precious to me. I am not taking the 1% chance they could be gunned down by a gang member accidentally or deliberately.

I hope I am clear why I feel Naperville is safer than Aurora.
I am sure the APD is as good as the NPD. But they got their hands full with serious crimes and can not focus on kids in school smoking marijuana which progresses to more serious drugs. How can they when chasing gang members and crooks all day and night?

My son was arrested by the Naperville Police(maybe ticketed is the better word) for smoking a cigarette outside a White Hen. He never smoked a cigarette again. My hat goes off to the NPD for ticketing my kid for smoking at age 16 or 17 and teaching him a lesson and saving him tens of thousand of dollars on cigs and possibly lung cancer. He stopped smoking! Many of my neighbors experienced similar encounters between the police and their kids and they were happy about this whip being cracked since this is happening behind their backs.

Now are you going to tell me the APD is out there ticketing kids who smoke cigs outside White Hens and 7-Elevens all day and night like the NPD??? If they did they would be incompetent to be focusing on these kids instead of going after the gang bangers. They are competent, got their priorities straight and going after the gang bangers with the help of the FBI, State Police and other agencies. Recently that joint task force arrested 31 of these hard core gang bangers and threw them in the slammer. Kudos to APD for their efforts and seeking help when the problem got too big to handle in Aurora! And brainless Mr. Bickering wants us to believe this did not happen last year(or possibly the year before) and Naperville is as safe as Aurora. It defies logic if the problem was so small they would have to ask the FBI, State and County for assistance...dah!

The APD officers risk their lives every day for their citizens. The NPD officers don't risk their lives. They are lucky and have "pussy cat" duties. But those are the cards dealt to each department respectively. NPD can not be blamed for gettng lucky and being dealt easy cards compared to APD.

It is because the NPD has "pussy cat" duties most of the times due to lack of major crimes, they have been able to discipline the kids better than the APD. Naperville was ranked the second most beautiful town to live in after Ft. Collins, Colorado by CNN and Money Magazine last year. Naperville was also recently named the best place to raise kids by another magazine. Another study stated that Naperville was the wealthiest town with over 100,000 population in the United States of Amercia. Are all these magazines and studies lying to us? I only mention the above not to brag about my city, but to defend it because it is being attacked by some incompetents. I mention wealth only because there is an adverse correlation between wealth and gang banging. Obviously there is! One has to be blunt so those who are dense can undertand the realties of what is going on.

Aurora is a great city. It needs to get rid of the 10% bad element and I am sure it will make the top 10 list in America one day as the APD has launched a battle of attrition against the gang bang members which they are winning decisively. But for all the bloggers attacking me, you need to focus on bringing Aurora to Naperville standards and not try to take Naperville down to your standards. Strive to be the best! It has nothing to do with arrognace.
Warren Buffet strives to be the best. Is he arrogant because he may be wealthy? He is a very generous guy along with Bill Gates of Microsoft.

We have some guy known as the Napergate Man keeping City Hall and the Police Dept. in check when they get out of line. So we have our battles in this town but they are always civil with no guns drawn when tempers flare. The Napergate Man had issues with the police dept. He just took them to court and took full page ads titled Napergate and blasted them for 5 years until he straightened them out. He never fired one single bullet at the NPD police even when he boiled over!

The Aurora idiotic gang banging residents don't respect the police. They shoot at the police when they disagree with them. So you simply can't compare our problems which are civil to your problems which involve machine guns, silencers, pistols and who knows what else. I doubt our Napergate Man even owns one gun. He may own a few sharp pens...that's it!

So it seems these National Magazines respect how we do business in town. They know we have dissent! They know we fight! They know we have the Napergate Man! But they still rank us high because we resolve our disputes civilly and not with the GUN! We resovle them in editorials, Napergate Ads, city council meetings, etc. with a strong pen and sharp tongue instead of a rifle.

It was not my desire to write about these issues or disclose them. I have been attacked, my city was attacked and my police dept. was attacked and I have an obligation to defend them. Sorry, if I came off cocky and arrogant but the attacks on me and my city have upset me. Especially the one by Anonymous that the Moderator decided to remove. I appreciated that very much!

I have nothing more to say! Let us drop the subject! You guys really don't want another blog from me! Don't force me to be any blunter then I have been so far... Please!

Thank you!

McFarland,

This brings up a catch-22 with what some other Napergatians have been saying about the number of officers on shift around Naperville; making claims that there are too many because we are paying an unacceptable amount in overtime.

One complaint was about 12 officers standing around where they felt 2 should be. If we cut back the number of uniformed police officers around the city and APD is stepping up their efforts to clear up their gangbanger problem, where do you think they might go? Possibly to the east, right?

Would you say that we need to maintain the number of uniformed patrol officers that is out there currently or decrease them?

As for shootings, they have happened at Brunswick Zone right down the street from the NPD police station in the past, and some were car to car shootings. Search for Nov 2002 for more specifics on that one if you want. Also, a man was shot and killed as he came out of his home brandishing a weapon after he was holding his family hostage. He exited the residence pointed the gun at the officers, did not comply to disarm and instead shot at the officers and thankfully was shot dead on the scene. I say thankfully because 4 houses away from his was an elementary school with a parent/child function going on and that would have been a very bad outcome if he was not stopped. That wasn't a pussy cat incident either. Drug Bust in Feb 2007 with millions of cocaine at a drug house in the Trails of Country Lakes subdivision, etc.

Point being: It happens here too and the police do a darn good job with many preventative measures that keep them very isolated and luckily infrequent. Those measures have to do with stopping the activity 3 steps or more prior to them becoming the larger major problems. Strong enforcement of curfews, loitering, underage drinking, vandalism, underage drinking/smoking, traffic violations, etc. They step in when something breaks down at home and the kids (and adults too) go down the wrong paths. Every force does this, but like you said NPD can afford to spend more time on these efforts and they have a HUGE impact.

Most of the crime problems of Aurora tend to happen outside of the district areas that D204 pulls students from. As Aurora makes continued and better strides and the 'discrepancy' that is perceived in the police enforcement I certainly look forward to the day that Naperville residents no longer have that 'real reason' to hold a grudge against an equally fine school that happens to sit within the Aurora city limits. Wouldn't you agree?

Joe,
I am a staunch supporter of the NPD and agree with most of your remarks.

1. I am sorry to disappoint you but I agree with the Napergatians that 12 officers on the intersection of Chicago Ave. and Washington is overkill. The bike cops needs to go! The 2 flashy motorcycle cops got to go! If you followed these blogs carefully, Mrs. Police Officer pretty much told us they have to put the school police to work in the summer and just pretty much throw them on this intersection in the summer. So she indirectly admitted it was not based on need but based on having excess cops due to the schools being close. The intersection is just as busy in the winter as summer and they handle it vey well with 2 or 3 police. I was in downtown on New Year's Eve and the police did a fabulous job with 3 officers on that intersection. It is a big waste of money to have 12. Of course 12 can do better than 2 or 3. But a hundred can do better than 12. You have to enter a cost/benefit analysis at some point or you will upset the taxpayers! The Napergatians did an analysis on this one, but you failed. Just trying to be constructively critical since we are both Pro-Police!

2. The current police force is fine. But it needs to spread out.
It makes no sense to me to have 12 cops in one location when there are bars in other areas with no police. One blogger noted correctly, one plaza in Naperville had 3 busy bars and not one policeman. I agree with you if you are saying the number of police need to be maintained. I do not want the number decreased. But as the Napergatians stated, they need to watch overtime. The Napergatians from what I gather are not anti-police. They are for controlling costs and evaluating them against benefits.

3.Your paragraph about a psycho with family problems shooting at police was off subject. I just said there were no gang banging killings or maimings in Naperville. I did not say there was 0 crime. Yes, one Mom killed her 2 kids recently and a doctor's wife killed her 3 kids a decade ago. These are terribe, horrific crimes. But they don't count against the NPD. No police department can stop family disputes. One shooting at 200 officers in 25 years does not change my feeling that the NPD does "pussy cat" work compared to APD. I did not call the NPD pussy cats. They are not! The are brave men and women! I said there work is easy compared to Chicago and Aurora. I hope you agree! It is kind of obvious! Telling a kid to stop smoking or drinking is not the same as arresting 31 heavily armed gang bangers with the help of Federal, State and County Police assistance.

4.I agree with your "Point Being" paragrah 100%.

5.I agree with your last paragraph 100%.

Sorry if I upset you Joe, but you asked and I like to tell it as it is. Most of what you say on these blogs is very logical, well researched and I commend you for all your work.

"As for shootings, they have happened at Brunswick Zone right down the street from the NPD police station in the past, and some were car to car shootings"

I remember the one case Joe. It took place as the vehicles headed west on Aurora Ave after leaving Brunswick. Seems the participants were from Aurora and heading home at the time.

Point being, aurora has a stigma attached to it and most people that chose to live in Naperville and not Aurora did so for that reason. We all know that 204 already threatened to change the boundaries to scare the parents into passing the referendum for their unneeded school once, so hang on. I am sure it is only a matter of time before they use that trick again, next time they need it to get what they want.

RJ,

There are already places in Naperville that go to the high school in Aurora, so I'm not quite sure what you mean by saying 204 threatened Naperville residents with boundary changes. There are already boundaries that pull parts of Naperville, Aurora and Warrenville to the school before the third high school was a figment of anyone's imagination. If anything I would think that a 3rd HS on the land they originally looked at which sat right on the Naperville/Aurora border at 75th street would have been ideal. Being there would have pulled more Naperville students within its walls and would have greatly reduced or nearly eliminated the volume of students who would have been bussed further to the west would it not?

RJ,
With all due respect 31 gun toting gang bangers arrested in Aurora, by a joint sting formed from Aurora, FBI, State and County Police is not a STIGMA. It is REALITY! The situation was so bad the Aurora Police had to call for county, state and national forces! Sorry!

What have you been smoking lately, R.J.? Maybe your cigar smoke is blurring your TV screens. Letting you off easy here, buddy!

You must not read any newspapers, watch TV news, or yahoo or google any news on the internet. This story was all over the place.

Get out of your DENIAL!

MrFarland,

How many of the 31 gun toting gang bangers from whatever incident you are referring to go to WVHS?

I'd like if we can start keeping this back into the perspective of the areas of D204 in Aurora if we can. I know of the Sudanese transplant that had like 8 felonies as a juvenile before he was 11yrs old that is charged with killing the Bethell lady back in Oct 2005 (when he was 14) on Halloween night. Have there been any others in the 204 areas though or as it relates to the high school?

McFarland,why don't you go back an read my postings again, this time in their entirety. It also wouldn't hurt to look up the meaning of stigma either.

Joe, if I remember this right, After the failed referendum for the new high school, 204 got to work on proposed new boundary's, which would have taken many students from Naperville and sent them to WVHS, which got the Naperville parents up in arms and to the polls in droves for the second referendum, which passed. This is where the Naperville vs. Aurora battle started.I remember all the barbs tossed back and forth between the parents from both schools.

My stand on this,(pay attention McFarland),many people bought their homes in Naperville with the belief that their children would attend NVHS, not WVHS. Not that there is much wrong with WVHS, but the fact that it is in Aurora turns people off. Aurora has a bad reputation when it comes to gangs and crimes, to the point of business's on the 59 corridor making sure to put Naperville in their advertising as not to turn potential customers off.

As far as the third school, I feel it isn't needed. Enrollments are down, as are the projected enrollments at the grade and middle schools. There are far more important things to do with taxpayer money than build an overpriced trophy school to keep up with the Jone's, like put air conditioning in the existing schools.

I’ll jump in with just a few comments on this.

I believe the majority of the Aurora gang crimes happen away from the D204 high schools, but it gives Aurora a stigma. I don’t think anyone can deny that. However, the absence of gang murders in Naperville does not mean that there is no gang activity in the city. Anyone remember the engaged couple beat up on the Riverwalk a few years ago?

My neighbor attends NNHS and says he is routinely offered drugs and also often walks in on students having sex in the bathrooms. I know a NCHS administrator who tells me much of the same—drug busts, fights, and sex in the school.

I went to Catholic school for 12 years and was exposed to sex, drugs, and alcohol. The cops couldn’t stop it then and they can’t stop it now. This is where parenting comes in.

But let’s get back to the funding. D204 was stupid for putting all their eggs in one basket. Now they’re screwed.

I’m glad to live in D203 where I just have to worry about the over-collection of the last referendum and the coming referendum for yet more money. At least it’s less than D204 is looking at blowing right now!

T.B.

Folks,
I think most of you are confused as to what I have been saying.

Let me try to summarize. There is alcohol, drugs, and sex in Naperville High Schools.

The only difference is it is a high priority for NPD and low priority for APD.

When I went to court for my son, the court room was loaded with students who had done all of the above. Most kids were being nailed for 200 to 300 dollars for having a sip of alchol plus 3 months to 1 year court supervision for first offenses. 2nd and 3rd offenses were nearly 500 dollars and sometimes up to 3 year supervision. No one was being sent to jail, but you could tell the parents were really outraged at their kids for having done what they did, and some action was being taken to stop it by the police and parents in a joint effort.

I was always talking about gang activity in the City of Aurora and not WVHS. My kids don't go there so I don't have first hand information about WVHS.

All you people who love to change the subject and slam me for what I did not say, can't even answer simple questions like, if Aurora keeps a full time officer at each school like Naperville.

This may be the partial answer to why Naperville is much stricter than Aurora in the schools....again I say "may" because no one has mentioned if WVHS has a full time police officer. All Naperville Schools have a full time police officer.
I believe one time NCHS had a full time police officer in addition to former Police Chief Jim Teal who was retained to help after he retired. I doubt any Aurora school would have the ability to hire a former police chief in addition to the police provided at city expense. And there is a possibility formmer Chief Teal volunteered his services at NCHS for free. He was a good man! I knew him personally. I saw him working there and I believe the school honored him big time when he passed away. Besides his pension, he also did some part time work at the Harris Bank on Washington and 5th Ave for pay. So he did not need the money. He also owned a company named ODD JOBBERS that did great landscaping run by his daughter Angie I believe her name is. Sorry about this detail, but I feel when I write something I am being tested for my credibility.

And for all those who did not hear about the joint effort between all Federal, State, County and Aurora PDs to arrest 31 Aurora gang bangers in one major operation, you must be bloggin too much and reading too litte.

I wish someone would kindly verify my story about this 31 person bust that took place about a year ago. Obviously the gang bangers are closer to WVHS than the Naperville Schools as WVHS is in AURORA. I said my kids would be exposed to a 1% greater risk in WVHS than a Naperville School. I did not say WVHS was Cabrini Green School of yesteryear. If anything the 1% was an understatement and not an overstatement.

And again, my letter included one or 2 sentences about this issue which I wish I would not have said since you guys all got off the topic.

My topic again is how can the Napegate Man take government bodies all the way to the Supreme Court and win for $200,000 or less, while there government bodies need millions to fight him and others. Can any one person answer my question and stay on subject? Thank You!

Again my question is about the Napergate Man and his abilities to litigate for a 5 cents on the dollar compared to the City of Naperville and District 204 while he wins and they lose. So I am back on subject and asking bloggers to get back on subject and please answer my question directly if the know the answer.

It does no good to beat the other issue like a dead horse as I am very confident in what I said and will not back track. Let us agree to disagree! If you guys want to continue to believe Aurora and Naperville have equal gang problems maybe I should see if you want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge from me for 5 bucks!!!! I can even be negotiated down to higher price of 6 bucks since you guys have a flip side view of factual events in our respective communities.

McFarland, Lao Tzu, a Chinese philospher, once said "Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know." My friend I believe you fit the latter.

Have a wonderful evening.

That is a dumb proverb 4 for 4.

"If those who knew never spoke, we would all be illiterate from lack of knowledge." If you like you can call that a "Naperville Proverb" since I just created it. I prefer Naperville Proverbs over Chinese Proverbs that don't make sense and you probably fabricated. Show me how a Chinese philosopher could be so dumb. If you did not fabricate it, I guess we have stupid philospher from China on our hands who makes no sense!

McFarland very much knows what he is talking about and if all you have is a Chinese proverb to rebutt his factual statements, I say you have a wonderful evening too..

McFarland,
I recall reading that story about the 31 Aurora gang members who were swept in a major sweep involving Federal, State and Local Agencies.

It was on the news everywhere. So I don't know why so many bloggers are givng you a hard time over your factual information.

I suspect there is some denial somewhere in their minds.

McFarland –

This may be the bust you were referring to…happened in Nov 2006. If not, then it’s another bust which, I guess, adds to your discussion. One of the drug dealers was just sentenced last week and the story was in the Beacon News on Sat. Since it's a related paper to The Sun, I don't think they'll mind if I include the site:

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/737847,2_1_AU12_LUNA_S1.article

Do not misunderstand my comments, McFarland. I do not think Naperville and Aurora have equal gang problems. I just cringe at those that think Naperville doesn’t have any gangs because there haven’t been any murders here.

My understanding is NPD has a full-time officer in each school. No idea about Aurora. Does anyone know what Aurora does for sure?

As for the cost of the legal defense, my hat’s off to the Napergate Man if he was able to defend himself so cheaply; however, the legal costs being discussed by the city and their attorney do not seem out of line with current legal costs in today’s litigious society. $350 an hour for a quality attorney is, unfortunately, the norm now.

T.B.

Caroline,

I don't believe anyone is in denial about the nabbing of gang members who were wanted for murders dating back as far as 1989 who were nabbed by a joint task force in North Aurora, Montgomery and Batavia. The question on the table was how many were in D204's area and how many were students attending WVHS. I believe the answer to both questions is 0 because I can not find anything that can show the contrary. If I am wrong, great, but please show it.

Is anyone else concerned that the St. John's site that everyone is talking is a done deal for the new high school is across the street from Superintendent Daeschner's new house?

I think it's a conflict of interest in that he is the one negotiating with the landowners and telling the school board that we can't afford Brach-Brodie. It just appears suspicious that he is so anxious to switch the site up north. Somehow we don't have the 10 million extra for the Brach-Brodie land but we do have 10 million extra for hurry up construction?

Also, why are they talking about putting the new school that is supposed to house 30% of the students in a location that only has 15% or fewer of the students within a few miles? It doesn't make any sense.

All weekend I have heard from many that the new site will be on North Eola and anyone living west of 59 on the south side would go to WV not the new school. This would include White Eagle, Tall Grass, Tammerack and Ashwood.

I have not seen any news online this is all word of mouth. Does anyone have some links to other message boards?

Why does everyone think WVHS encompasses ALL OF AURORA. It does NOT. Parts of Aurora goes to East Aurora, West Aurora, Batavia and Oswego.

What %age of kids who were busted were from WVHS?

You cannot escape drugs. A smart parent knows this. A smart parent also knows that if they teach their children to stay away and be persistent, they will probably stay away from the drugs. Do not tell me that NV does not have a drug problem BS

I heard about the Naperville police. They are pretty bad One parent told me that they pick on the minority kids attending NV.

I thought people in Naperville were supposed to be educated. They make too many assumptions about Aurora.

I just checked the WVHS website and they do have a Police Resource Officer in the building. In fact, he covers both buildings. I believe this is a school district initiative more than a Police Department mandate, but I am not 100% sure on how that works. So if NVHS had one, this was a good chance WVHS would too...which is what I found out by going to their website. I hope that helps.

SB picks Eola road site.
Boundries to be re-done.
Oh boy, now it's going to get UGLY!!!!!!!!

Some people insisted it could not be BB due to the price.

Be careful what you ask for...

Couple of thoughts...

1) Its just a ploy to either make BB or Macom come closer to the table. Or as someone else pointed out in another blog that when they do switch it back to BB or Macom and it costs more and takes longer everyone will be happier than with Eola.

2) The boundary drawing should be fun to speculate for the next four weeks. I wonder if they will go East/West with the boundaries. In that case all the south/western sub-divisions from White Eagle down go to WVHS. Or they go North/South. Either way its hard to look at the selected spot and envision just a minor boundary re-draw will work.

What's important here is that when it comes to boundaries we all act civilized. Because no matter what the magazines say about Naperville, when word gets out that their is turmoil, mud slinging and name calling it makes us all look uncivilized. Lets show people that we can come to the table and agree in a respectful manner and not like a bunch of spoiled brats.

In no way would we tolerate a room filled with children acting the way adults did last year. Please lets not let that happen again.

Dear Anonymous,

Who died and left you the room monitor?

I will act precisely the way I deem best to get my way. I could not care less about you or your liberal friends.

If I want to scream and shout and throw a tantrum (and we get our way), then it was all perfectly worth it.

Sorry Dough Boy your wrong on my political satus. A liberal I'm NOT. Just someone who was raised to control myself and behave in a civilized manner. It amazes me that more residents get all upset over boundaries in this district but not day-to-day operations. Do you all know what is going on in your childs school Like kids already being drilled for ISATs. This should be our concern in this SD. It's January and we are already talking ISATs. What ever happened to teach to learn not teach to pass a test. This is where we should be upset with our SB. Because in the end no matter where the boundary lines are it's the same education.

If we would spend more time on our curriculum we woulnd't have to spend 6 weeks "prepping" for ISATs.