Remember him? Revisiting the Napergate man

I remember this case a little differently than most bloggers. I recall it as being a Selective Enforcement case by the Naperville Police Dept. against a small liquor retailer possibly for his very strong political views and/or campaign contributions. His ads at one point revealed he made campaign contributions for political reasons. One of his first Napergate ads indicated so, if I recall correctly!

It seems like the Napergate guy was confiscating hundreds and hundreds of fake IDS and even turning them in to the NPD and obtaining police report numbers. His ads reported not only that he confiscated more fake IDs than all other liquor establishments(retail liquor, bar, hotel, taverns, restaurants, nightclubs, etc.)combined, but 3 times as many as all the others in town. Almost unbelievable!

No one can ever forget that full page ad with 200 FAKE IDS listed in one Napergate AD each documented with police report number. That specific ad sticks in my mind as I had 2 teenage boys who had liquor on their mind every other day! So it gave me comfort we had such a strict retailer in town.

Yet, the police dept. wanted us to believe he was freely selling liquor to every minor east of the Mississippi River.

I believe it was a political case! Chief David Dial may have been receiving his orders to harass him from former Mayors Margaret Price and Sam McCrane. It appeared he may have complied...not sure! However after Mayor George Pradel was elected, it almost seems certain he ordered Chief Dial and the entire police dept. to stop harassing him. And I believe they did!

Kudos to Mayor George Pradel for stopping the unjustified selective enforcement of this retailer! My hat goes off to Mayor Pradel for not utilizing his political office for gain or harassment by engaging the NPD as the former Mayors did.

It is obvious to me why our current Mayor is so popular and it has a lot more to do than strictly his friendliness. He is an honorable Mayor!

With all due respect I don't think there is any justified comparison between the Napergate Man and Furstenau.

The Napergate Man was abused and mistreated for a decade or two by the Naperville Police Dept. and falsely charged repeately. There was a pattern and a long trail to document the case! He had his Baily Rd. Extra Value liquor license revoked not once but twice despite having the best record of any liquor establishment far and away.

What is not known by new timers bloggin here, is he had another very long and tiring battle with the City of Naperville that actually reached the Supreme Court of Illinois in the early to mid-eighties. This was way before the second battle which he coined Napergate that reached the Illinios Appellant court before city officials threw in the towels.

In the first battle I recall the Supreme Court reversed his revocation and accused the City of Naperville of abusing its discretion and powers in revoking his license. If the Supreme Court did not overturn the revocaton there would be no store at that location for those who need some evidence or proof.

Regarding than Furstenau Case, we have a "he said he touched and a he said he did not touch." This is a silly and ridiculous case.
I suspect the minute the judge hears this case he will giggle and tell both parties to go home and mature. The police should have never charged Furstenau for something so petty. And Furstenau made a huge mistake by lowering himself to the standards of those who bought petty if not unnecessary charges agasint him.

It does not matter that they "thought" about a felony case. Thinking does not count! They did not "act"! They charged him with an insigificant misdemeanor which at worse he would have gotten a fine for and a slap on the wrist if he was found guilty.

PS. I recall the Napergate Man living in a small apartment at Olive Trees for nearly a decade in the 80's while I was also there. His legal fees drained him so badly it took him nearly 10 years to save for a down payment on a home despite being a very successful businessman.

I am a relative new comer to town. I don't remember any liquor battles. However, I do know he was a thorn in the side of city officials during the battles of Spring Green and that other commercial developments on 75th St. and Naper Blvd.

I remember him as an organizer, leader and motivator. I attended some of those Napergate meetings in various homes in Pembroke Commons. I recall when he spoke, you could hear a pin drop. Everyone wanted to hear what he said!

What really puzzled me is how he spent all that personal money on the Napergate Ads and never asked people to particpate. When offered contributions, he always said thank you and politely rejected.

He was one of a kind individual who seemed to care about the community and development. He never mentioned his lquor license once and it never came up. I guess you can say the man was able to focus on one thing at a time.

And of course he was notorious for the large grassroots movement that he built to fight commercial development in residentially zoned single family home parcels.

I think the town has fallen apart since he stopped his Napergate ads. No one can get anything accomplised in City Hall anymore.

Mr Host,

Regarding the below quote in your introduction,

"A liquor store owner who believed he was unfairly targeted by Naperville government officials back in the early '90s, he battled long and hard against City Hall and won."

I think after a District Court and an Appellant Court rule that he was unfairly targeted, and the city chooses not to appeal to the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois, you can no longer say, "who believed." It is really no longer "he believed." But the "COURTS BELIEVED" he was "unfairly targeted by Naperville government officials back in the early '90s." That is why people go to courts...to prove what they believe! After the court's verdict it is no longer "he or she beleived," but the court believed, the judge believed, or the jury believed!

I was not aware of his first battle to the Supreme Court in the mid 80s, but if in fact true, it becomes even more difficult to understand and comprehend your words of "whom believed."

I am not sure if this was a slip on behalf of the Naperville Sun or a softness of approach in dealing with City Officials.

Either way it would be nice to see the wording corrected.

And thanks for allowing us to blog on the subject which seemed to be a taboo subject outside of his ads in those days. It seemed all newspapers and not only the Sun, were reluctant to use the word Napergate in their numerous articles and coverage at the time. Napergate was the "Watergate" of Naperville in that period. It was a very touchy subject with city officials and even local newspapers. It seems the Furstenau case has made the Napergate Case a little less taboo to discuss!

Naperville lawyer: Your point about the "court believed" is well taken. Consider it a slip on my part, and I stand corrected. I look forward to your take on the matter after you read the story in Sunday's Sun. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Randy,
I'd like to respond to your comment. I stopped blogging on the Furstenau topic weeks ago due to the ridiculous amount of time it was taking to read all the blogger's comments. Now that this topic is fresh, I'd like to throw in my opinion. Sorry in advance if this gets lengthy.

It's mind boggling to me that bloggers continue to think that Furstenau's Civil Rights lawsuit has anything to do with the "he said he touched and he said he did not touch" battery charges. Taking the words from Naperville Lawyer: The COURTS BELIEVED Furstenau did not touch anyone. This case has already been ruled upon, and FURSTENAU WON. That case has nothing to do with the civil rights case.

If you truly think the judge will "giggle" and tell everyone to go home the minute he sees this case, you are either misinformed, or uniformed...or both. Again, the Civil Rights case is not due to the fact that Furstenau was merely charged with battery (felony or misdemeanor, or otherwise), but the lengths that the City went to (Police Officers changing their story and timeline, etc)to make sure the charges stuck and stayed in the newspapers for as long as they did (18 months).

You are correct with the fact that Furstenau was never formally charged with Felony battery of a Police Officer; however, that doesn't change the fact that it was reported in the newspaper for 2 weeks (while the police got their story straight...which took a couple times) that Furstenau WOULD BE charged with a Felony. A very key fact (that Furstenau must prove in court) to his case is regarding what the City (NPD) did when charges were filed in court. When the Judge was presented with FELONY BATTERY charges by the NPD, the Judge could not justify a FELONY charge given that they had NO evidence except for Officer Hull's story that changed a couple of times. The Judge ruled that the charges would be reduced to misdemeanor battery. What happened next is key to Furstenau's case (and again the burden of proof falls on Furstenau). This is a detail that casual case-followers probably don't know. Upon hearing of the reduced charges, multiple NPD Officers lobbied to the Judge, in person, to have the charges upgraded back to a felony. The Judge refused. This went on for HOURS. After this ploy was unsuccessful, a phone call was place to the Judge by none other than Chief David Dial again lobbying for the charges to be upgraded to a FELONY. I also believe that The EMPLOYEE OF THE YEAR Peter Burchard also placed a call to the courts to lobby for FELONY charges (the Burchard part is my OPINION, and I don't know if there is proof, but just because there isn't proof doesn't mean it didn't happen). Whether all this "lobbying" did or did not happen is for the courts to decide. But you can not honestly say that this is a ridiculous lawsuit IF this did happen.

I believe that if facts are presented in court to prove these phone calls took place (I think they have Secretaries at the Judge's office that say the calls were made) then Furstenau will win the case along with a LARGE sum of money (Jury's don't like Cops trumping up charges that never existed). Nevermind that Furstenau was trying to reform the NPD pension and questioning undocumented overtime pay to NPD officers (MOTIVE). Nevermind that Officer Hull and the NPD took 2 weeks to figure out their story and timeline and then that timeline was changed because Furstenau had proof that he wasn't even in downtown Naperville at the time the alleged battery took place. Moreover, Hull's story changed multiple times. He originally said that Furstenau hit him so hard it stunned him, and the punch was heard by a parking enforcement officer some 50 feet away. He then changed the story that it was a slap with the back of the hand, then finally ended on the story that it was a "touch with the back of his hand in a non-threatening manner." Hull never had to testify under oath as to what actually happened. It is my opinion that Hull was able to slander Furstenau for 18 months with no consequences.

Randy (or any other blogger thinking this is a ridiculous case): I appreciate your opinion and I thank the Sun for this forum to discuss various issues within the city. However, put yourself in Furstenau's place. He did nothing wrong (again which was proven in Court...there is NO denying that fact regardless of whether you think Furstenau actually battered Officer Hull). I think any of us would go to these legal lengths to defend our Constitutional Rights. I don't want to sound too hokey here, but a lot of young men and women have given their lives to see that we all have these civil rights. I believe it is Furstenau's OBLIGATION to the citizens of Naperville to pursue this lawsuit.

Posada705

Jim Lynch,

I'm looking forward to the Sun's upcoming article.

It seems clear that once every decade our local polititians become entrenched, fall victim to special interests and lose touch with the voters. There are far too many examples described on the blogs hosted by the Naperville Sun to ignore.

Well-connected politians and councilmen that vote on issues without fully disclosing their ties to the issue seems rampant. Wherli, Rosonova and Boyajian each have family ties to local developers and law firms that represent these developers. While these same councilmen fail to disclose these ties. And, these local developers succeed against huge public outcry to get their unpopular projects approved by Council (Hobson Ponds, Edwards Hospital, etc., etc.) When a voter ask about the councilmen's ties the developer, the voter is attacked or publicly humiliated.

It seems to me that Furstenau has consistently proved himself to be a thorn in the side of developer's or others business interests that have business with the City. He simply will not "play ball" and let the fox run the hen house. He's crusty, cantankerous, argumentative and a ridiculous micro-manager of city officials. Hurray - we need at least one councilman willing to do that job.

I'm not surprised that Furstenau has been singled out by business interest with a bull's eye on his chest. I'm not surprised that certain councilmen gleefully pushed through a kangaroo court censure of Furstenau.

I am pleasantly surprised that the Sun is willing to point out the parallels between Furstenau and others who have "gone against City Hall." A free press and an informed public is the best defense against bad govenment. Naperville City Hall needs some serious house-cleaning. At the elected and at the staff level.

If the Furstenau Affair can lead to a better, more responsive local government, the cost of Furstenau's Federal litigation will be a good investment for the taxpayer.

Posada75,
Randy is obviously a layman and may have made the same mistake the moderator made. It is a common layman mistake to continue to say "he or she said" after a court rules.

There was a ruling in the Furstenau case. If I recall correctly the courts did not rule as you stated, "The COURTS BELIEVED Furstenau did not touch anyone." I believe they ruled that there is no EVIDENCE Furstenau touched or hit the Police Officer. That is significantly different and weakens the Furstenau case.

Police officers lobby prosecutors all the time for charges against defendants. This is a common practice! I do not believe you can go after a police dept. for lobbying the prosecutor for charges unless they provide a false document or a doctored video tape, and the prosecutor falls for it, if you catch my drift.

But in this "he said she said" case, I believe and suspect it was the State's Attorney of Illinois who made the decision to charge Furstenau with the misdemeanor and not the NPD. Thus the primary responsibility shifts to the State's Attorney and off the NPD's back.

Here is where Randy may be right. A State's Attorney has an enormous amount of immunity. Not quite as much as a USA Attorney who almost has full immunity from bringing forward a wrongful case due to bad decision making. Can you go after a State's Attorney and win? Yes, it is rare but happened recently in the Duke Lacrosse Case which I am assuming the bloggers are familiar with. Note, they went after the State's Attorney and not the police. Unless, I am missing something if Furstenau believes he was charged wrongfully, he should be going after the State's Attorney who brought the case forward against him based on digesting the evidence put forward before him by the NPD. Will he succeed? I doubt it because Furstenau does not have hard core evidence such as a video the State's Attorney may have seen and deliberately discounted.

Randy is right that a Federal Court will give no weight to the fact they thought or tried to obtain Felony Charges from the State's Attorney. The system worked and the State's Attorney denied them their "unsubstantiated" and "ridiculous" felony charges for possibly touching a police officer.(It is not believable that Furstenau would punch a police officer and not be arrested on the spot....absolutely not believable!) Since the system worked for Furstenau, it is hard to bring a case forward based on the contemplated Felony Charges.

Fusteanau has another serious hurdle that the Napergate Man did not have to overcome. Furstenau is a POLITICAL FIGURE. The standard for a political or public figure to go after a city for slander and libel is much higher than for a civilian such as a Napergate Man. One can argue that the Napergate Man is a public figure now, but the bottom line is he was not initially. If he is a public figure, it is because the City of Naperville made him a public figure...not because he wanted to be.

I had a chance to talk to some colleagues since writing my original post this morning. Another major difference is the Napergate Man was charged by a City Attorney and not the State's Attorney. The City Attorney is an employee of the City of Naperville and thus the city would have responsibility for false charges. Furstenau was most probably charged by the State's Attorney thus the state would have responsibility for possible "false charges" as in the Duke Lacrosse Case. I am not sure if City Attorneys have the same level of immunity as State and Federal Prosecutors but my guess is they have little or no immunity since they are really attorneys performing on occasion prosecutorial duties. The Napergate Man had a much stronger case due to the above mentioned reason.

According to a colleague of mine who is familiar with the 2 Napergate cases, the Napergate Man was initially tried by the NPD or City Attorney and tried by a Liquor Commissioner in City Hall. I believe it was in essence a City Court set up special for the Napergate Man. He actually had video tape and pictures in both of his cases and my colleague believes the City chose to ignore the hard facts and evidence of the case and ruled against him wrongfully. Maybe, they were hoping he would not appeal and it would not be exposed. I was not there and have no clue as to the reasons for convicting an innocent man.

The path of both of his cases were the same. They proceeded from the City Hall hearings, to the Illinois Liquor Control Commission in the State of Illinois Building in downtown Chicago, Dupage County Court, the Illinois Appellant Court, and only to the Supreme Court in the first case. Randy is correct in his statement, "reached the Illinois Appellant court before city officials threw in the towels." But to clarify it did NOT only reach but went through the Illinois Appellant Court which ruled in favor of the Napergate Man upholding lower court decisions that overturned the City Hall proceedings. I think what Randy meant to say is it did not reach the Supreme Court as the case in fact was reviewed and ruled on by the Illinois Appellant Court. Again these are typical layman errors and I believe Randy was trying to describe the situation in the best way he could.

In summary, the Napergate Man has a much stronger case than Furstenau. Much stronger! He was fighting a City of Naperville attorney who was employed by the city and not a State's Attorney employed by the state with enormous immunity. The Napergate Man had a trial by a "court" set up and controlled by the City of Naperville. That is where all the evidence, facts and testimony were entered. The other courts did not try the Napergate Man. They overruled the City of Naperville proceeding based on the evidence and facts. I assume the video tape was damning for the city and it simply could not overcome such hard core evidence regardless of all the in-house and Chicago Law firms retained.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE WONDERING WHAT THE SECOND NAPERGATE CASE WAS ABOUT:

It was a simple "sting operation" case! The Napergate Man retained a minor to check on his employees to make sure they were carding. He used marked US currency and videotaped. The city charged him with selling to a minor despite massive evidence to the contrary. The lower and higher courts ruled that a liquor licensee has every right to monitor his employees using "sting operations" and it can not be construed as a "sale to a minor." I am sure the courts were made aware in the "mitigation and aggravation phase" which is a requirement in such trials and occurs after the initial proceedings on the charges, that he had confiscated hundreds and hundreds of fake IDS from the minors that were documented with NPD police report numbers. He was also won the State Championship for the most responsible drinking campaign in the State of Illinois. He proceeded to the Nationals that were held in Las Vegas, and came in 1st place and beat out 49 other state champions. This is according to county records one of my colleagues looked up. I believe he published a picture of his 1st Place National Trophy in one of his Napergate ads according to another reliable source.(This is something the Naperville Sun can easily verify for authenticity)

I think with the nature of this overwhelming evidence combined with the Selective Enforcement the first blogger mentioned in her post, he had a very overwhelming case against the City of Naperville.

Based on my information and what the bloggers have provided assuming it is accurate, I would conclusively concur that the Napergate Man had a much stronger case than Furstenau. Furstenau may possibly have a case but most likely a very weak case. The Judge may dismiss his case and ask him to refile it against the State's Attorney since I am presuming according to the bloggers he was charged by the State and not the City.

I can see that you are very emotional in your support for Fursteana, Posada705, but unfortunately emotion and passion have no place in a courtroom. You need facts and hard evidence to win cases and especially when you are a public/political figure with a higher standard of libel/slander combined with the fact you are suing a State Prosecutor with enormous immunity, a notch below the almost absolute immunity a USA Attorney commands.

I hope I did not get to legalistic as I was trying to communicate to bloggers who I assume are mostly lay people. Sorry for the length, but if one does not explain in detail more confusion arises.

And just for the record, I want to say that Mr. Dick Furstenau is my favorite Council Member and I love how he fights for the citizens. I am just trying to be objective with my legal analysis of his case. Nothing is worse than the "down feeling" of dealing with "prior false hope and high expectations," shattered after one receives a stunning and adverse court ruling!

Bloggers,
I made a minor error in the below quote,

"According to a colleague of mine who is familiar with the 2 Napergate cases, the Napergate Man was "initially tried" by the NPD or City Attorney and later tried by a Liquor Commissioner in City."

My colleague called me to notify me I misquoted him. I meant to properly quote him and say "initially charged" but erroneously stated "initially tried" in the haste of writing without reviewing. My apologies!

He also emphasized that the "allegations" were presented by the Naperville Police Dept. to the City Attorney acting in his capacity as a prosecutor, who then brought the "formal charges" against the Napergate Man.

Of course this does not change my analysis or conclusions, but as attorneys we have to be very PRECISE! Other than my errors, my colleague concurred with my analysis and conclusions. He found no other errors!

For the record, neither my colleague or I are Judges, have ever been Judges, and have no business arriving at conclusions or verdicts. A Federal Judge may completely disagree with our analysis and conclusions!

Posada705 stated:

"Upon hearing of the reduced charges, multiple NPD Officers lobbied to the Judge, in person, to have the charges upgraded back to a felony. The Judge refused. This went on for HOURS. After this ploy was unsuccessful, a phone call was place to the Judge by none other than Chief David Dial again lobbying for the charges to be upgraded to a FELONY."

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I am not an attorney. But I don' believe you can lobby a Judge for charges. That would be illegal! You can lobby the State's Attorney for charges. The Judge is suppose to be the neutral finder of facts in our system of justice. So if what you are saying has any credibility we have a very corrupt judicial system. I am guessing you don't know what you are talking about.

The Naperville Lawyer makes much sense to me. I think that is why most of us hire lawyers. It is at times difficult to understand our complex legal system. The apparently very brilliant and educated Napergate Man even hired lawyers so I guess we all need lawyers.

I also agree with the Naperville Lawyer that the Napergate Man had a very strong case while unfortunately DF has a very weak case. It seems obvious! You can not sue a police dept. for lobbying a State's Attorney for charges. In essence the State's Attorney backed Mr. Furstenau by not bringing very serious felony charges. However, I think he made a mistake bringing petty misdemeanor charges and that is why we are here bloggin. And Fusrstenau is suing! Does that make sense???

Here is my take on the Napergate Man and what got me going on my research and off my towing nightmare with the City of Naperville regarding that infamous 4th cab spot in front of Features. Of course, I was also getting tired fighting Joe who was producing Google Satellite Photos from outer space to show me that even the Space Aliens could see and interpret the faint paint on that infamous 4th spot! Enough said!

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Ted, are you able to go through the NaperSun archives and scan a couple of these advertisements? The whole fiasco sounds pretty entertaining. I imagine the library has archives of The Sun on microfiche if you guys don't keep archives, where would be a good place to start looking? Do you have any specific dates when the ads were published readily available?

Posted by: Eli Hodapp | December 21, 2007 10:53 AM

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Ever since Eli posted the above and tipped me off where I could find old Napergate Ads, I have spent many evenings in the library looking for them. Of course Host Ted was extremely helpful posting the dates of most of the ads titled Napergate. I think besides the 50 or so titled Napergate there were 50 or so ads not titled Napergate such as some ads he ran for ATT and one he ran to show a picture of his National Kylix Award. They were identifiable thru the Extra Value Liquor headings. I should point out the full page ads of the 90s for the Sun were much larger than today's pages so he got a good bang for his buck as he filled them to the hilt with information, facts, evidence, court rulings, dates of rallies, opinion and political commentary.

LET ME TRY TO PROVIDE A FEW INTERESTING TIDBITS THAT I LEARNED AT THE LIBRARY

1. He won the National Kylix Award Competition which was sponsored jointly by the Newspaper Advertising Bureau of America and the National Liquor Store Association for the most "Responsible Drinking Campaign in the Nation." He beat out 500 contestants from all 50 states at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas on March 24, 1992. The Kylix Trophy, a mounted museum reproduction of the Kylix Apollon from the Delphi Museum, was pictured in a non-Napergate full page ad in the Naperville Sun dated April 1, 1992.

2. On the eve of the annual convention, the Beverage Alcohol Report of New York, praised Extra Value Liquors in Naperville for having the most outstanding program against minors in the country.

3. On July 7, 1993 the Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force issued a rebuke to the City of Naperville. Here is part of the rebuke:

"The penalties invoked by Naperville against this retailer have been ridiculously harsh and designed to put him out of business even for the first offense.
The evidence seems to indicate harassment, discrimination, and trumped up charges and testimony. The conduct exhibited by the government of the City on Naperville, the City Attorney and some members of its police department is conspiratorial and is reminiscent of fascism."

The IABTF encompassed almost every retail and wholesale liquor organization in the State of Illinois. Apparently 33 heavy weights in the liquor industry put their names and organizations behind the letter. The Napergate Man published the entire letter as a readable picture in his Napergate XI ad in the Sun dated October 8, 1993. This finding came 19 months prior to the unanimous decision of the Illinois Appellant Court for this same case, in which not one Appellant Judge dissented!

4. In October of 1993, at a meeting of the Presidents of the Naperville Homeowners Association, the Presidents wanted to know why the Napergate Man and his business were being harassed. They asked former Mayor Macrane if it is true that Extra Value Liquors confiscated 226 fake IDs. He rumbled and jumbled and stated we can't tie these fake IDs to "bodies." Police Chief Dial was also there and the Presidents directed the same question to him. He admitted that it was true that Extra Value Liquors confiscated 226 fake I.D.s from minors and that in fact it was more than all other establishments in Naperville combined. (Source Napergate XV dated Oct 29, 1993, Page 21A)

5. Apparently former Mayors Price and Macrane both had vendettas against the Napergate Man. A reliable source had come forward and stated Mayor Macrane made the following quote: "THAT FORMER MAYOR PRICE COULDN'T RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN BUT I WILL." At about this time, CBS TV news(8/5/1992) and NBC TV news(8/6/1992) both ran reports on the Napergate Man's exemplary efforts to combat minors.

6.City Officials were so stunned by the Dupage County Court ruling against them, that Judge Bonnie Wheaton has to issue 3 separate orders before city officials would implement her ruling. (Napergate XX in the Naperville Sun on April 1, 1994)

7. The Napergate Man had so badly penetrated City Hall, with his supporters from all walks of life including city employees/officials, that he would report on secret Executive Session votes. He reported that the 7 member council had ruled 5-2 to further appeal his case during Executive Session. The 2 dissenters were former member Jack Tenison and current member Douglas Krause.

8. The Napergate Man even reviewed Dupage County Courthouse records and discovered that the City of Naperville issued a liquor license to Chicago Bear Coach Mike Ditka despite still being on Court Supervision for a DUI without questioning his suitability or qualifications to hold a liquor license.

9. The Napergate Man owned a second liquor store in Roselle. According to the Roselle Police Dept. he had gone 3,796 days without selling liquor to a minor or failing rigorous sting operations run by the RPD. It was believed to be one of the longest streaks in the nation if not the longest before it ended on May 14, 1993 at 5:10pm when one of his employees finally failed a police sting operation.

Detective Ralph Briscoe of RPD stated he had confiscated 42 fake IDs. in the last year and a half which was 3 times the total of all other establishments combined in Roselle. Mayor Rak of Roselle issued the Napergate Man 3 letters of commendation during his last year in office. The letters are in the 3000 page court file in Dupage County Courthouse! His petition of 3340 supporters is also part of the court record as detailed in Napergate XXXIX.

10. As some bloggers correctly pointed out there was a prior 2nd legal battle in the 80s between the Napergate Man and the City of Naperville that was vicious and lasted over 5 years before the Supreme Court of Illinois overturned the revocation of his license on 01/27/88. In this ruling, the Supreme Court of Illinois accused the City of Naperville of abusing its authority, power and discretion in issuing this revocation to the Napergate Man and Extra Value Liquors .

BELOW ARE SOME OF HIS EFFORTS UNRELATED TO HIS LIQUOR LICENSE THAT PRECEDED THE INFAMOUS SPRING GREEN BATTLE WHERE HE MAY HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING SOME GRASSROOTS BUILDING TALENTS

11.In Napergate XXXIV he called on residents to hold a CITY WIDE RALLY on May 16th 1998 at 1:00pm at the Riverwalk in front of City Hall to protest commercial and high density projects being promoted by Brestal in 6 different residential neighborhoods throughout Naperville. His previous rally on November 1, 1997 attracted 300 residents, 2 Chicago TV stations and 3 newspapers. He had pre-arranged for TV coverage for this rally also.

12. On Sept. 7, 1993 the City Council voted 7-0 to switch its city phone service from ATT to MCI to save the residents a penny and a half each per year. AT@T (later Lucent) employed 7600 workers in its Naperville Complexes paying enormous real estate taxes to the city. The employees were outraged and launched an electronic mail and phone offensive against City Hall in an attempt to shut the city down by bombarding it with phone calls of disappointment and tying up all its phone lines. They also contacted the Napergate Man who ran them a few full page ads at his expense. He called on AT@T employees to join him in City Hall Chambers on Sept. 21, 1993 to reverse the vote. Hundreds joined him and the City Council reversed its vote from MCI back to AT@T.

The reversal vote was also 7-0 taking place only 2 weeks later. Basically by rallying AT@T employees with his Napergate Ads, informing the residents of Naperville what a terrible decision the city council had made, rallying them to attend the next city council meeting, etc. etc. he was able to get a complete reversal back from MCI to AT@T. The Napergate Man with his grassroots AT@T supporters, got the entire council to flip flop. (Napergate X on Sept. 24, 1993 on page 11A contained all the details.) This huge but short battle was 6 years prior to Spring Gate. Apparently he eventually brought his grassroots building experiences to Pembroke Commons, his own subdivision, taught and motivated them, before he launched them to fight the fiercest and longest battle in Naperville Zoning history. In that battle there were 5 city council votes on Spring Green with 4 flip flops. In addition the Planning Commission voted twice with the residents and against Brestal, never flip flopping!

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The roughly 100 full page Napergate ads(somewhere between 200-300 if you count repeats) would probably amount to a 700-800 page book with fine print. Many of the same ads were published 3 times in the Sun in the same week apparently to make sure no one missed them and for maximum effectiveness. I could never cover it all! But I will end by stating that in many ads he called for on Mayor Samuel Macrane to resign while calling for City Attorney Michael Roth and Prosecutor Francis Cuneo to be terminated. In those few attempts, he obviously failed! In everything else he seemed to have a massively successful track record.

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PS. Another remarkable ad I found by the Napergate Man in the Sun on April 6, 1994, during all these heated political and legal battles, is an ad in which he advertised 3 new businesses he was opening up simultaneously. One was a video store, one was a nightclub, and one was a 3rd liquor store. In that ad he thanked his 3340 Petition signers and "assured them one of the top priorities of our 6 businesses will be exposing improprieties in the City of Naperville including the waste of the taxpayers' hard earned dollars." He apparently kept his word and used his personal money from his multiple business to continue running non-stop Napergate ads for at least another 7 years. Why he suddenly stopped is the 64,000 question, I can not answer??? Does any blogger have an answer or possibly can shed some light???

Next time you say there is not enough time in the day to go to a rally or city council meeting, think of how the Napergate Man squeezed so much time out of each day. In addition he did not have a writer for his ads! Yes, I believe he even wrote his own ads! The Naperville Sun employees would know for certain as he had to coordinate with them to have them published.

Thanks for allowing me to publish my partial findings! There is much more to disclose but it will take much more research, effort and lots of time!

Ameena...

Ameena,

Thanks for all the research and helpful additional info. You carry on the activist spirit that was key to the Napergate movement.

While some may same there are comparisons between the Basim Esmail case of the 1990's and the current case involving Naperville's own (Big) Dick Furstenau, there is one major difference betweem the two. Basim Esmail was just an Average Joe kind of guy who was just trying to etch a career for himself and who thought he was getting unfairly kicked around by city hall and decided to fight back. (Big) Dick Furstenau is an elected city official who likes to have himself painted as being some Voice of The People, but who happens to have a track record of giving paid city employees a hard time, to the point that some were forced to leave their jobs. He also may or may not have struck a police officer who was just performing his duties. He also was just recently censured by the City Council for his past performance with city employees. And he also has a thing about suing anyone who so much as looks at him the wrong way. To the best of my recollection, all Basim Esmail did was fight for his rights. (Big) Dick Furstenau on the other hand seems to be on a campaign to get revenge for what he feels were a violation of his rights, when it actuality, I think it all comes down to his failure to win a seat in the State Legislature due to his being a complete jerk to the police officer he may or may not have struck that is the driving force behind his current lawsuit against the city. The one difference between the two cases is that all Basim Esmail wanted was justice and vindication. All (Big) Dick Furstenau wants is revenge, embarrassment and public disgrace of certain key individuals and the city council as a whole, not to mention lots and lots of money. The other difference is that Basim Esmail was an honorable man. (Big) Dick Furstenau is just a bully, and a fool.

Moderator,
I read the article in the Sun about the Napergate Man. While it is a major breakthrough that the Naperville Sun is willing to write about him and use the Napergate phrase that he coined, I feel we have a long ways to go.

The article was very soft and tried to blame all the troubles on a "deceased Mayor." While the Mayor was definetly guilty, I doubt this was a one man operation and he operated in a vacuum. Here is a quote from the Sunday Sun article,

"Esmail won at the appellate level in April 2005. The court ruled in favor of Esmail's claim of unequal treatment that was the result solely of the mayor's vindictive campaign and ruled it should not have been dismissed, court records indicate.

I am 99% certain that the court ruling was not based solely because of the "mayor's vindicative campaign of unequal treatment." The Mayor could not have accomplised all he attempted to accomplish without the help of the Naperville Police and City Prosecutors. He is suppose to have no authority over them so I believe there was a conspiracy of sorts as that very large liquor organization(IABTF) in Ameemna's blog stated with certainty.

Furthermore, if one has been following these blogs and kept up with all the different directions and turns the Napergate Case took, it would be impossible that it only cost $5,000 to $10,000 for outside lawyers. Sitting city manager Bob Marshall is clueless and should not make such statements. How would he know since it has been established the city lost, hid or destroyed the records? Did he not hear what Mayor Macrane told the Sun? Did he not know that Sun Editor Tim West demanded those records on more than one ocassion and was told they do NOT EXIST? So coming up with a ridiculous number just shoots his CREDIBILITY right into outer space along side the Joe Aliens who can read fainted paint on a cab spot from outer space using Google Satellite Technology before they park their Space Vehicles in that particular spot!!!

If it is true we fought the Napergate Case for 5-10k of outside legal help, why are we budgeting 400k and expecting 1 million for legal expenses for Furstenau Case. That is utter nonsense! The Napergate Man was required to jump thru 2 extra hurdles just to reach Dupage County Court or Federal Court. The City Hall proceedings and the Illinios Liquor Control Commission Hearings! Furstenau did not have to jump thru these 2 hurdles to reach Dupage Ct. or Federal Ct.

The Napergate Man was fighting his case on 3 legal fronts.

1. The liquor license hearings which went to the Illinois Appellant Court because the city continued to appeal after 2 lower court rulings of reversal of the City Proceedings!

2. The civil rights action which the Napergate Man was forced to appeal because it was erroneously thrown out by a lower court before he finally won also before an Appellant Court.

3. Separate charges in Dupage County which included a bottle of liquor bottle that was in possession of the "sting operator" just for a few short minutes. I think this 3rd charge was dismissed by the city after requesting 7 or 8 continuances over nearly 2 years to wear down the Napergate Man but he never wore out. They must have known the "sting" he ran was legal or why did they not proceed to trial instead of wasting 2 years of continuances only to ultimately DISMISS the case!

In summary, I feel I have learned much more from bloggin than that article. It was a very soft article that did no justice for the Napergate Man or Napergate. It was very apparent the reporter was using kid's gloves on the City Officials and trying to blame one dead man for all the problems of Napergate in order to "bury" them with the dead Mayor and give current city officials a clean bill of health or credibility if you will!!!

I did not buy reporter Sarah's story. I find Ameena's version much more credible and believable. Ameemna seems to be basing her story mostly on the Napergate Ads. The reporter Sarah Koci, appeared to base most of her information on quotes from city officials in old Naperville Sun articles. Well since the courts ruled with the Napergate Man, it would seem to make his ads more credible than comments of city officials in Sun articles and it would have been logical that she would have used the more credible source for her article.

I would like to see Sarah do another article based on Napergate ads and see if she can take a tough stand on city officials after taking such an incredibly soft stand. All she needs is to review the Napergate ads which are at her disposal to give us a more accurate picture. I am sure Ameena would not mind sharing her information with Sarah to save her time. Or she could just look at Ameena's numerous posts which just seem so accurate. She tells you where you can dig up all her facts by time and date. No wonder she is the leading vote getter for Best Blogger! And I have not even voted for her yet, but I promise to get around to it! Just took some time off until this morning article I picked up in my driveway infuriated me! I am still infuriated!

I believe if the Naperville Sun does not toughen up a bit, it will lose credibilty and readership. Its peak readship was when the Napergate Man was blasting away. Since he is not blasting away someone in the Naperville Sun has to blast away at the truth to balance reporters who are extremely soft. Hirng a columnist with half the Napergate Man's courage would probably increase print readership by 5000. One with his full courage would probably increase readership by at least 10,000.

I believe the Sun is trying but treading waters it is not familiar with. Let us see if they can get use to the rough waters the Napergate Man was taking on each and every day. He took on the biggest of waves coming his way. The Sun seems to only want to tackle the smalllest of waves. It just seem to obvious especially if you have been bloggin for a while.

I am sorry but this bloggin forum is 10 times more accurate and interesting than the Print Newspaper of the Sun. Much more bold and fun! I have no interest in reading the Naperville Sun after reading that article in the paper about the Napergate Man. Maybe a more balanced article that quotes sources like the Mayor of Roselle, the IABC, the Beverage Alcohol of New York, or the Illinois Appellant Court would be much more palatable enabling me to enjoy reading the Sun again like in those Napergate Days when I could not wait to pick up my paper from my driveway! These days I really have to drag myself down the driveway to pick up the paper...don't know how much longer this exercise will last!

PS. I see no comparisons between the Napergate Man and the Furstenau Case. The Napergate Man was abused for 2 decades and somehow documented his abuse day by day. He had video, pics, police report #s, fake IDs and it seems his evidence never ends. He had support from across the USA including the Newspaper Advertising Bureau of America and the National Liquor Store Assosiation. They were trying to run him out of town! He was dealing with blatant selective enforcement that would not stop under 3 former Mayors.(not Mayor Pradel, of course!)

DF was charged possibly wrongfully with a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor charge means nothing and is wiped off your record after court supervision. What does he really think a Federal Court will award him...a nickel...a dime!!! And our city officials are completely overreacting by hiring outside legal firms for 400k to fight a civil rights case based on a misdemeanor charge brought in error. It seems like one attorney should be able to go to court and dismiss it or settle for 10k or 20k. But to spend up to a million is a waste of taxpayer's money. Since DF is the only one who watches out for the waste of taxpayer's money, ironically this time there is not one council member who is watching for this waste as DF is out of the equation. It shows you the value of DF as a council man for the citizens as opposed to a litigant against the citizens. The Napergate Man had no choice in what he did. He was the defendant in almost all his cases and they were even trying to run him out of town. No one is trying to run DF out of town! He should entertain a peace offer and make peace! And end all this nonsense! His case is not even in the same ball park with the Napergate Man's Struggles!

Posada705 has a great handle on DF's case against the city.

Comparing it to Napergate may or may not be a good comparision, but the bottom-line is that there was a clear abuse (or at least an attempt at an abuse) of power involving representatives of the City. Specifically, it started with employees and moved upward to Council members.

The issue is NOT whether or not DF was a bully ---- that is a different question that has nothing to do, legally, with his case (or the attempt at a case against DF in the altercation with the officer). DF as a bully is a HR issue for the City to figure out separately.

The issue is one of a denial of rights and abuse of power. Being an elected official does not mean DF must or should forfeit his rights under the law to remedy his perceived wrong (whether it costs us money or not). As easily as some believe DF is causing this money issue by suing, others can say the City is causing it by it's continuation of it;s abuses. Settle and it's over, folks.

All in all, I have two comments: the first is the immaturity of many posters who appear to take a 2nd grader's delight in using DF's first name (often in caps and proceeded with an adjectivem such as big, etc), and the second is that I fully expect that without a settlement this case will cost the taxpayers easily the $500k to $1 million the City has already advertised, and if DF wins (which I think is at leadt a 50/50 chance), it will cost 3-4 Mil.

JOMO.

First I would like to say Mr. Bob Marshall's statement in today's Naperville Sun that it only cost the City of Naperville 5-10k for outside attorneys in the Napergate Case is simply not credible based on my research. The Napergate Man admitted the battle cost him over 200,000 dollars and he was only using one attorney for each component of the case.

1. He was only using Attorney Tim McLaughlin for his civil rights case that was denied by a lower court but overturned by an Appellant Court.

2. He was only using Attorney Irene Bahr for his Liquor Commission Hearings that rose from City Hall to the Illinois Appellant Court after making 2 other stops along the way at the Illinois Liquor Control Commission and Dupage County Court.

3. The city went after the Napergate Man for at least 12 other charges in Dupage County. The infamous one was charging him with providing a minor with alcohol during a "sting operation." His agent succeeded in busting his employee so of course he/she will have possssion of the alcohol until he retrieves it. An attorney named Brian Telander beat this part of the case down to dismissal in Dupage County Court after 7 continuances all by the city from 9/17/91 to 12/17/93. A court would never extend such a courtesy to a defendent but exteneded it to the City of Naperville!

4.All the other petty charges such as a manager missing for an hour and a half from his store was handled by Attorney Lawrence Serlin who successfully defeated all except this one petty charge which the Napergate Man admitted to but the Judge said was to insignificant and petty for her to consider against him.

In the civil rights case the city utilized 3 outside attorneys to fight his one civil rights attorney. Their names were Marvin Glink, Thomas Dicianni and Brian Mack. Glink was the number 2 attorney/partner for the powerful Chicago Law Firm of Ancel, Glink, Diamond, Cope, Bush PC. These big boys from Chicago don't take cases for $5-10k. Try maybe a %50-100k retainer for each for starters. It was 3 attorneys against 1 in this part of the case.

Against Attorney Irene Bahr they used in house Attorney Michael Roth plus Proseutor Cuneo. According to Napergate XII, another law firm named Collander and Gillen was retained to assist with this part of the case when the in-house realized they had their hands full with Ms. Bahr. So it was 4 against one in this part of the case. But Irene Bahr was the former Chief Legal Council for the State of Illinois Liquor Commission so she was able to handle all 4 city attorneys with relative ease and win. Of course she had the facts and the law on her side which helped immensely!

I have not yet read all the Napergate ads so I do not know who the city put up against Napergate Attorneys Brian Telander and Lawrence Serlin.

The Napergate Man had 4 attorneys to handle the various charges brought in various courts everywhere resulting from a "sting operation" that was eventually ruled legal by the Illinois Appellant Court. The sting charge was reportedly embelished and surrounded by an additional 12 fabricated charges accoprding to Napergate XX. Once the sting charge fell, the embelished charges fell like dominos.

The city was using 3-4 in-house and out of house attorneys to handle each one of the Napergate Man's attorneys. They wanted to win so bad they left no stone unturned and no dollar unspent!

Based on my deep study of this Napergate Case, the number of outside attorneys used(5 uncovered so far) and in house attorneys used(it was a 9 person in-house legal dept.), I believe this case cost the City of Naperville at least 1 million dollars for both in house and out house attorneys.

The Napergate Man was able to show an increase from nearly 300k for the in house legal dept before his case started to a budgeted $787,877 dollars for 93-94 using graphs that he charted with data obtained from sources inside the city I assume. (Napergate XIX dated Feb. 25, 1994) This was nearly an increase of a half a million due to his case for only in-house. Out house attorneys are much more expensive than in-house attorneys so one can reasonably conclude if the in house were costing an extra half a million, the out house were probably costing at least a million but for sure not less than a half of a million.

This 2nd Napergate battle started in 1990 and ended in 1995. It was all over the place being appealed at each juncture. The first Napergate battle started in 1983 and ended 01/27/88 with the Supreme Court of Illinois overturning the revocation and accusing the city with ABUSE OF DISCRETION AND AUTHORITY.

I have to admit that I was a little disappointed when the Sun Reproter Sarah Koci, accepted Mr. Bob Marshall's estimate of 5 or 10k at face value. If she had done her homework, in my opinion she would never accepted such a ludicrous and ridiculous number that he pulled from thin air.

I believe this is why our town is falling apart. The City can tell the Naperville Sun anything they want and the Sun takes City Officials words at face value. We have no watchdog since the Napergate Man.

The Napergate Man would accept nothing the city officials said at face value. He would launch an investigation until he found the truth.

It just seems beyond comprehension that the City already budgeted 400k for the Furstena Case for outside lawyers, but suddenly only spent 5-10k for outside attorneys in 5 years in 3 different legal tracks with 2 involving lengthy appeals in the Napergate Case.

I hope reporter Sarah Koci can revisit Mr. Marshall and call him out on that 5-10k that the legal dept. spent on 5 years for outside attorneys over the Napergate Case. A dishwasher working for minimum wages would make more than that in 3 -6 months! Common let's get real! Who would in his/her mind believe that!

It is time for the Sun Reporters to step up to the plate and question blatant misinformation by our city officials. This statement by Mr. Marshall was so blatantly incorrect, I am utterly shocked the reporter did not question it and published it as if it was factual. Where was Editor Tim West to tell this reporter, that they already told him they did not keep records and if they did they would never provide them. Suddenly they have a number 10 year later! Bring back the Napergate Man not to revist but reinvestigate again!

Ameena and, earlier, Eric : We're not done with this story - and it's with your help and insights that we can continue to pursue it. Through your incisive blogging you've become citizen journalists and we welcome and thank you for your participation. keep reading the Sun for more on this story.

I agree with Eric and Ameena tha the city's claim they spent $5-10k on legal expenses for outside attorneys is not believable.

If so, why not admit this petty amount instead of cover it up in 1995 when asked about it? The cover-up of the outside legal fees was because they were horrnedous.

And I like how Blogger Eric, noticed Reporter Sarah was trying to give the city a pass by blaming the whole mess on one FORMER DEAD MAYOR! Not believable! This is scapegoating! I bet former Mayor Price is still alive and thus no mention. She was even more involved than former Mayor Macrane.

Finally, this article did really not reveal any of the numerous accomplishments of the Napergate Man that were hidden from us and it appears there is reason to keep hidden from us for reasons beyond me.

The Napergate Man seems like a man who could shake mountains! I did not know he flipped that ATT vote until Ameena dug it up. When I read that I said WOW! There does not seem to be anyone quite like him, past or present! Now, I can really see why the ESTABLISHMENT would want to run him out of town. HIS OUTSPOKENESS for starters! His NAPERGATE ADS! His ablity to RALLY residents! And his razor sharp pen was simply a little to SHARP for them! Who else could run a slate of 4 for City Council in 1999 and have all 4 win! When he failed 2 or 3 of his ENDORSEES WON as in 2001!

As the introduction to this blog states he was a THORN to all City Officials. And I believe they feared him for his political power and his ability to fill up City Hall anytime he took his PEN out and purchased some BOLD INK.

Attacking a retailer for an innocent mistake or two in the 80s and a legitmate sting operation in the 90s, in this manner speaks volumes that the city had an ULTERIOR MOTIVE.

Sarah should be looking for the ULTERIOR MOTIVE and not buying City Official versions of the past which really have been put to rest with all these court rulings.

You just don't try to close down the strictest retailer in the nation against minors for a innocent MISTAKE by an EMPLOYEE once a decade. I also don't believe his ads showing all the fake IDs that embarrassed the city and was the SOLE REASON they attacked him in this vicious matter. Not believable!

I think it was about his politics and ability to rally residents to call city officials out when they were COVERING UP! Yes, he coined his ads NAPERGATE because major cover ups were taking place in City Hall. The article by Sarah today proves they are continuing as if the Napergate Man never visited us in the first place let alone revisiting us!

Yes, they are covering up the cost of this gigantic legal battle!

They are covering up for all of those responsible for the persecution of the Napergate Man!

They are covering up the CONSPIRACY that existed against him!

The IABTF would never dare make the statement BELOW if they could not back it up. The city would have sued them. That organization is loaded with money. I mean loaded as they represent the entire liquor industry in the State of Illinois!

Here is the statment copied from Ameena's blog. Yes, this statement can be verified by the Naperville Sun as it was published in a Napergate Ad right inside the Sun on IABTF stationary. Read it and you be the judge!

" On July 7, 1993 the Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force issued a rebuke to the City of Naperville. Here is part of the rebuke:

##################################################################

"The penalties invoked by Naperville against this retailer have been ridiculously harsh and designed to put him out of business even for the first offense. The evidence seems to indicate harassment, discrimination, and trumped up charges and testimony. The conduct exhibited by the government of the City of Naperville, the City Attorney and some members of its police department is conspiratorial and is reminiscent of fascism."

##################################################################

Moderator Jim,
Please point this letter out to Reporter Sarah! This Napergate Case is very complex and not easy to cover, so she could have easily overlooked it. Seeing such a quote in the PRINT Naperville Sun would indicate to me and many residents that you are FINALLY TURNING THE CORNER to being the newspaper your readers expect and not one catering to a few old time ESTABLISHMENT FOLKS that want to keep everything on the HUSH and HUSH!

Thanks,
Maryann

PS. I will give the Sun some credit for daring to write about the Napergate Man and finally using the popular term he coined. In the past, we only heard from him thru his ads. So it is a step in the right direction that we can hear about him from a reporter. But the reporter must give the Man the credit he deserves without HOLDING BACK! Sarah really seemed to be HOLDING BACK! Like she was afraid she would get in trouble if she told the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH! No one should fear telling the truth! The Napergate Man apparently paid a very gigantic price so we can all tell the truth and not worry about being charged falsely for our beliefs. We need to honor him and continue his platform of telling IT AS IT is regardless of the consequences. Yes, he paid a heavy price so the rest of us could have FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

THANK YOU!

This statement by Ameena sums up the legal expense cover up part of the Napergate Case!

"I hope reporter Sarah Koci can revisit Mr. Marshall and call him out on that 5-10k that the legal dept. spent on 5 years for outside attorneys over the Napergate Case. A dishwasher working for minimum wages would make more than that in 3 -6 months! Common let's get real! Who would in his/her mind believe that!"

In Watergate they knew how to hide and sound reasonable. In Napergate they don't even make a reasonable effort to cover up because they know all local newspapers, and not just the Sun, are not playing the WATCHDOG ROLE!

Eric,
I loved your below statement....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In summary, I feel I have learned much more from bloggin than that article. It was a very soft article that did no justice for the Napergate Man or Napergate. It was very apparent the reporter was using kid's gloves on the City Officials and trying to blame one dead man for all the problems of Napergate in order to "bury" them with the dead Mayor and give current city officials a clean bill of health or credibility if you will!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You hit the bulleye with that Statement! I can't wait to show it to my husband when he gets home. That was so INSIGHTFUL!

Moderator,
I commend you for putting up this thread. People bloggin on this thread are unusually articulate. Much more so than those ill mannered folks on District 204 blogs! It is so much fun to read what they write and learn from their research....especially that Ameena girl! Someone would should pay her for going to the library and digging up this mess all over again! I thought Napergate was over but if the City is telling us they just spent $5000 dollars in this 5 year case, then Napergate is just heating up all over again.

Five thousand in 5 years is a $1000 a year for these 5 high powered Chicago lawyers or $200 dollars per lawyer per year! As one blogger said a dishwasher makes at least that. At the mininum wage of $7.50 an hour, a dishwasher makes $15,600 a year. If we were to believe the new City Manager, one diswasher make 15.6 times what 5 high powered attorneys make in one year! That remark by the City Manager was news that is NOT FIT TO PRINT! What possessed the Sun to publish that remark! I can see why this City Manager is only TEMPORARY!

Maybe the chambers at City Hall can be bought for $5000, too! Do you think I should make a bid, Moderator? They may just accept! Everything seems to be so cheap in City Hall!

Bloggers,

I notice there is a lot of confusion about this Napergate Man and his case both on the blogs and in the PRINT EDITION of the Sun. I found a section of a Napergate XXIV ad in the Naperville Sun (February 8th, 1995*Page 7A) in the library, that summarized the 25 page ruling, in which the Appellant Court unanimously overturned the District Judge in the Napergate Second Liquor Battle. There was another huge Napergate One Liquor Battle that unfortunately is not documented with Napergate ads. Below is the verbatim from Section One of Napergate XXIV.

***********************************************************************************************

CITY ATTORNEYS DEFEATED

We appreciate the comments of several council members regarding "quitting the fight with Extra Value Liquors." We never wanted the fight but it was imposed on us by the Legal Dept. and specifically City Prosecutor Francis Cuneo. The city council members may have forgotten but in the early stages of this battle we apologized for this legitimate sting and promised never to run one again in an "offer and compromise settlement" drafted by our attorney Ms. Irene Bahr. We even offered to pay a fine of $1500.00 for this sting which the Appellant Court described as not only legal but a "furtherance of the Liquor Control Act."(Napegate Man quote)

The 3 judge panel who ruled UNANIMOUSLY in favor of Extra Value Liquors went on to say "Charging Esmail in the present case with a sale to a minor is akin to charging the police in Roberts(58 Ill App ad 171) with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. The police were not so charged and we determine neither should Esmail be penalized for his actions. The law is not intended to punish sting operators conducting their stings in the furtherance of THE LIQUOR CONTROL ACT."(Appellant Court quote)

The appellant court went on to further state "our review of the record discloses that the plaintiffs have implemented an exemplary program for catching minors attempting to purchase alcohol at their stores. Other evidence presented in mitigation, such as the large numbers of confiscated identifications turned over to the Naperville Police(206) as compared to the other 104 Naperville liquor licenses combined(38) and also the testimony of a Naperville police officer which would have stated that Esmail's enforcement's effort were exemplary as compared to other licenses, was erroneously excluded at the local hearing. Furthermore, testimony as to the city prosecutor's statement that a self sting operation would be "commendable" and evidence of other penalties of other penalties imposed on the Naperville licenses for sales to minors should have also been allowed into evidence at the mitigation stage to help determine the appropriate penalty for Extra Value Liquors."(Appellant Court quote).

The above paragraphs are verbatim quotes from the UNANIMOUS decision of the 3 judge panel of the appellant court. We wish we could publish the 25 page ruling in its entirety. As our attorney stated "the ruling totally and utterly vindicated us."(Napergate Man quote.)

***********************************************************************************************

PS. I was unable to bold, underline, or enlarge as his Print Ad allowed him to do for EMPHASIS and easier smooth reading.(Ameena quote)

Editor,
I did buy the Naperville Sun for the first time since the Napergate ads stopped. I commend you guys for finally coming out of the closet....it took a decade but you guys finally showed some courage and came out of the closet. Kudos to the new liberal ownership of the Naperville Sun! I understand it used to be owned by the "establishment" at one time and later after it was sold the first time was still beholden to them!

I recall that the Naperville Sun never used the word Napergate in the decade of those ads in any of its articles. Not once! It was as if it was agreed between City Officials, the Naperville Sun and the Establishment that this word was taboo! The Napergate Man was not to be coverered so he basically covered himself with his own newspaper inside of your newspaper which I believe could not be stopped under the 1st Amendment Right to Free Speech!

While I was pleasantly surprised to see you guys come out of the closet, the article was extremely weak and biased towards the city position which was deemed not credible by at least 2 Appellant Courts in the 90s and one Supreme Court ruling in the 80s. The article was a travesty of justice as far as expressing the Napergate Man's point of view and his numerous accomplishments that have just began to surface on these blogs. Much more has not yet surfaced.

I would like to see the Naperville Sun write an article about the Napergate Man without referring to your old articles filled with quotes from City Officilas and police, which were biased and proved not credible by numerous lower and higher court decisions favoring the Napergate Man!

But once again kudos for finally coming out of the closet in a big way by splashing that word across your front pages in a way no one can miss it. Since you gus at the Sun, apparently wanted to come out of the closet, you sure came out the right way with a big splash!

Only time will tell if this is a one time fluke or a serious effort by the Naperville Sun to be unbiased in its reporting and taking a tougher approach to incompetent city officials such as our new "temporary" city manager who thinks we are naive and gullible to believe the lengthy and difficult Napergate Case cost us taxpayers somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. I am sorry but I thought he was joking!

many people say furstenau has a weak case and that it should not take a huge amount of outside help to defend. the fact the city hired all the outside help and said it will cost a million $ to defend is a clear sign his case is legit.

the states attorney doesn't bare the responsibility in this suit and he shouldn't be named as the person in this suit. i respect naperville lawyer's opinion but it is wrong in this instance. posada was right on the money, almost. the npd originally lobbied the states attorney, not a judge, and it did last for hours. the states attorney told them to get lost. and several officers, including dial were involved. now it may not be illegal to ask for felony charges, but it is illegal to go to a certain extent to try and get them. there is a line that can be crossed in an over-zealous attempt to get felony charges. it also matters who is involved. why was dial calling the state attorney? why was burchard? the npd and chief dial went to far. if nothing else, this shows just how motivated the npd was out to get furstenau. that is how the felony charges will be relevant to this case. it won't be about the fact they actually tried for felony charges, it will be more about what lengths they went to to get them and did they violate any rules in their over-zealous attempt to do so.

after the sa said no, the npd went to a judge and asked the judge for a felony charge, he said no so they asked for misdemeanor charges. all the npd needed to receive misdemeanor charges was an officer who said he was battered. if they go to a judge with a story that the officer was battered, the judge must grant misdemeanor charges. the states attorney was out of the loop on that and hot nothing to do with the charges that actually went forward against furstenau. he wasn't going to charge furstenau with anything.

another very important point posada made was the fact that there was a leak a the NPD 2 weeks before the arrest, at the very beginning of the investigation, that they were going to charge furstenau with a felony. THEY DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO CHARGE HIM WITH A FELONY BEFORE THEY EVEN CONDUCTED THE INVESTIGATION. sounds like they decided what they wanted to do then tried to build and mold a case to match it. that is illegal.

so put it into the context of a normal citizen. lets say someone batters you and you go to the NPD to file charges. they ask you your version of the story and you say you were punched and that it happened 5 days earlier and you waited to now to file. later in the investigation, they interview several eye witnesses who refute your version of the story. not only do they say the defendant never touched you but they also make it clear that your version of events didn't even have the right time and location of the incident. so you go back to the NPD and change your story to line up more accurately with what the eye witnesses said, including changing your story about the manner in which you were battered. do you think that investigation and those charges would go forward? ABSOLUTELY NOT! the cops drop the investigation, tell you sorry, you should have filed immediately, and your version of the events doesn't match the testimony of several eye witnesses. you had the wrong time, the wrong location of where the defendant was, and your version of events doesn't match the eye witness testimony of several people.

thats exactly what happened in this case only it was a cop, and not a private citizen who filed the charges. his story was directly refuted by several eye witnesses who said the defendant never touched him, and he didn't have the right time and location. so he went back and changed his story several times to match the right time, the right location of the defendant, and even changed the story about the manner in which he was battered. AND THE CASE STILL WENT FORWARD AFTER FELONY CHARGES.

you may think furstenau is a bully and a jerk but let me assure you that will have no bearing on this case. the judge won't throw out the case because furstenau was censured or because some people don't like him. it has no relevance.

and if furstenau can prove burchard was involved during the investigation it will crush the cities defense because it will provide a link between the phony arrest, burchard's letter, and the fast response by some councilman and the mayor to censure him and bring up the idea of a recall vote against him to remove him from office.

the city will lose this case, and several city employees and officers will find themselves in very hot water when all the facts come out.

Reporter Sarah,
I found your article offensive because you allowed this quote in.

"My inclination is to say 'Let's leave this dog lie." Siddall said.

I know it is a quote by an illiterate Council Member, but he is basically calling a human a dog. A good human a dog!

I would have thought a reporter with so much at her disposal with old Napergate Ads could do much better than rely on a city official who should not be representing the citizens of this town and sullying our and their reputations with such underhanded remarks!

I am willing to to look past this mistake in your judgment! Apparently the editors of the Sun do not review your work before it is published and must have rushed you to do this difficult assignment based on old archives.

Anonymous(assuming Taxpayer),
You are way to emotional and can not seem to differentiate what is permissible in court and what is not. Attempts to lobby a prosecutor for felony charges is not admissible in a courtroom unless they bribe him and he charges. They did not bribe him and he correctly rejected the ridiculous lobbying. The system protected DF! It worked for DF! You can not sue when the system rules in your favor by denying the wrongful police attempts even if Police Chief David Dial was involved! Your blog is not focused!

Here is what you got at best:

A police officer brought possibly wrongful misdemeanor charges against DF! If DF can prove it, a Judge will award him his legal expenses and maybe an extra 1000 dollars. That is it! Is it worth a lawsuit and the time needed! I would say no! All the rest of what you said is propaganda and hearsay and would never be allowed in a courtroom! So stop writing so much and get to the facts of the case! The Napergate Man was successful because he had the ability to focus...you need to develop that ability!

HERE IS A SHORT ANALYTICAL COMPARISON...............

1.The bloggers are saying DF has weak case in relation to the Napergate Man. That does not mean he has no case! If you want to keep your credibility, Taxpayer, you need to admit the obvious! Which is the Napergate Man's case was much much stronger! And we already know he won in all his courts battles! So he has a little edge since his verdicts are already in.

2.If you refer to the 9:18 am Ameena posting today, regarding the Illinois Appellant ruling, it should be obvious why the bloggers are correct. Take for example one sentence from it.

" Other evidence presented in mitigation, such as the large numbers of confiscated identifications turned over to the Naperville Police(206) as compared to the other 104 Naperville liquor licenses combined(38) and also the testimony of a Naperville police officer which would have stated that Esmail's enforcement's effort were exemplary as compared to other licenses, was erroneously excluded at the local hearing."

3. If you do the math, you have a liquor retailer that confiscated 5.42 times(206/38) the amount of fake IDs as 104 other retailers in Naperville "COMBINED" and the city is going after him for being an "incompetent retailer," and trying to run him out of town. This one sentence indicates why he had an enormous civil rights suit....ENORMOUS, may add for emphasis! Now this is coming from the unanimous decision of an Appellant Court and obviously had to be proved after being entered, ruled on, and made into a verdict.

4.Neither the bloggers, the Naperville Sun, or Police Chief David Dial ever got those facts straight. His Napergatian buddies were even underestimating when saying 3 times as many. They were guessing but at least not exaggerating. Apparently, none of them are consulting with the Napergate Man or their estimate would have been a little better.

5.The Police Chief has to know this statistic but only admitted to the Naperville Homeowners Presidents under pressure that he got more than all other retailers combined, without revealing that it was 5.42 times more when the Presidents were badgering him about the treatment of the Napergate Man in one of their monthly meetings. The Police Chief obviously had to know these astonishing numbers.(they had risen to 226 Fake IDs by the time of this meeting from 206) And one has to wonder why this Police Chief who is still our current Chief, did not step in to stop this UNBELIEVABLE CHARADE. This has never been investigated by Internal Affairs or our City Council. Why? Try cover-up!

6.The Police Chief would be hard pressed to say it was handled by a subordinate who may or may not work for the dept. anymore. Numerous Napergate ads published these IDs in the Naperville Sun. He is a columnist for the Sun, so he would be hard pressed to say he does not read the newspaper he writes for. Plus every Police Chief reads the newspaper of his town to keep up with the ongoings!

7. What is even more shocking is the proceedings that were set up special for the Napergate Man excluded such relevant information. Many city officials have to be involved in order to have "court like proceedings" and for this kind of relevant data to have been deliberately and improperly excluded. One has to conclude a conspiracy of sorts was going on as the IABTF letter indicated 2 years before the Illinois Appellant Court stunning ruling!

8. I would guess the former Mayor, the current Police Chief, many police officers, the head of the legal dept, the prosecutor for the legal dept, the liquor commissioner of the city, some council members, and many others were involved to be able to pull such a CHARADE based on only one sentence of the 25 page damning ruling by the Appellant Court against the City of Naperville. I would love to see that ruling. I would pay to be able to see it!

9. The Naperville Sun slightly underestimated by stating both his stores confiscated 174 IDs when only the store in question had confiscated 206 IDs by an earlier date. The Sun reporter could have lost her chronological time order of things, but should make an immediate correction to maintain her credibility. And I am sure the true number was much higher as this is the number that was entered into the record at the initial stages of the lengthy legal process. By the time it reached the Appellant Court, I would not be surprised if the number was double the 206.

10.I am just using one minor sentence in a 25 page unanimous Appellant ruling to show the strength of his case. There apparently was serious ongoing harassment, discrimination and selective enforcement over many years in the Napergate Case. In the case of DF, maybe one cop lied about being touched or hit by Furstenau. It just does not bring it to the level of the Napergate Case and comparisons are without merit.

As far as the Naperville Lawyer, he is correct. A judge can not bring charges as you state, Mr. Taxpayer. A State's Attorney brings charges. On occasion a police officer can bring insignificant misdemeanor charges but never felony charges. A Judge can approve or toss out charges! He can not bring charges and be the trier of fact. That would be a conflict...take that back...a major conflict!

The Naperville Lawyer is obviously a lawyer who knows what he is talking about and gave you very good advice at no charge. Be thankful! He even said DF is his favorite Council Member so obviously he had no ax to grind or mislead Furstenau supporters. He just wanted them to be realistic and not have false expectations based on emotion. And taxpayer...no offense, but you wrote that same or similar letter a 1000 times. If it made any sense you would only have to write it once and people would accept what you are saying. You are wrongfully assuming the bloggers are not well informed. On this thread, the bloggers are the sharpest I have seen in my life. They are rejecting what you are writing because it is to much hyperbole!

Has anyone noticed Mrs. of the Police Officer is missing in this debate. She was voted probably 2nd best blogger after Ameena, but is nowhere to be found!

To me this indicates she is a classy lady, who is not going to try to defend the indefensible!

It is obvious why she came in second! She knows when to speak and when not to speak! But I would still like her to speak, as everyone in the Naperville Police dept. seems tight lipped when wrong such as in Napergate!

Does anyone know if the NPD has an Internal Affairs dept. and if it does, has it ever ruled for a civilian over a cop in say the last 100 years or so???

Does the Naperville Sun know? Does the Naperville Sun care?

I would like to see a Sun Reporter ask the Police Chief what happened in this Napergate case? He was after all the Police Chief then and now! I think the public wants to know, now that the Naperville Sun opened this well hidden case and put it on the front burner!

And I do want to thank the Naperville Sun for its courageous use of the word Napergate for the first time in its history!

I just want to say you bloggers are doing a great job!

I enjoyed reading the blogs during my lunch hour.

I am not allowed to participate on company time but I hope to blog a little more this evening.

See you then! Keep up the good work!

The one difference between the two cases is that all Basim Esmail wanted was justice and vindication. All (Big) Dick Furstenau wants is revenge, embarrassment and public disgrace of certain key individuals and the city council as a whole, not to mention lots and lots of money. The other difference is that Basim Esmail was an honorable man. (Big) Dick Furstenau is just a bully, and a fool.

Posted by: Millville | January 20, 2008 11:08 AM

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Millville,
I enjoyed your post very much. I just posted the last part of it in order to give bloggers who missed it a chance to find and read it.
I thought you were right on target and spoke layman's language instead of all this legalistic stuff that is over my head by some of these bloggers.

It is so obvious to me that Basim Esmail was RAILROADED!!! Let me give you yet another lay person's term. He was LYNCHED!!!

I am glad the Appellant Court lynched the city in return! I am sure they had to pay up big time. But like everything else in this case, everything has been top secret and remains top secret.

My greatest fear is they demanded the Napergate Man be muzzled as part of the financial settlement! If this was the case, another travesty of justice was committed.

As the introduction states he was a THORN! He was the only one with the grassroots organizational network and abilities to take over the council! If Brestal did not buy out Rosanova, he would have had 5 council members that were non-establishment at one point. It is mindboggling the maneuvers the establishment will take not to lose control of this town to an outsider like Basim Esmail! His last name is not Wehrli so he better keep his mouth shut...eh!!!

It seems obvious that he was the only one in Naperville that posed a real threat to their power. By charging him every which way possible, they were trying to bankrupt him financially so he could no longer function. I believe they were thinking if we can keep the Napergate Man paying for all these lawyers to defend himself, he would have no money for these Napergate Ads. Just a hunch! And guess who was paying for all the lawyers the city hired to fight his lawyers whom they forced him to hire....yes, us the TAXPAYERS get shafted one more time. Yes, Mr. Marshall these high powered outside Chicago lawyers got paid less than immigrant farm workers! Only in Naperville can one retain lawyers to work so CHEAP!

Apparently they failed miserably and now are finally exposed! It does not take a rocket scientist to figure the ulterior motives of city officials. You just don't go after a liquor retailer who was ranked number one in the country by numerous national organizations, wins a National Competition, has accolades from across the country and elevated the standard in the industry, for an innocent mistake let alone a legitimate sting operation to keep control on his employees.

How ironic that the heroic efforts this retailer was performing including performing "sting operations" was considered criminal by the Naperville Police Dept. while the rest of the country was praising him!

Yes, we are ranked the second best town in America to live in. Now. I know why! It is because of retailers like Basim Esmail keeping the booze away from the minors and forcing them to focus on their studies and be productive members of Naperville.

It is ludicrous to believe we are the second best town in America because of our corrupt police dept. The truth eventually comes out 10 years later in cases like this. Thanks to the new ownership of the Naperville Sun, it is beginning to unravel slowly but surely!

Finally, I would like to second your motion that Basim Esmail is in fact an honorable man! It seems like you were the first blogger ever to use his real name so I thought I would use it to. I guess he got the nickname of all nicknames that seems to have stuck to him like glue and fit him like a glove...The Napergate Man! How appropriate! I applaud him!

Has anyone seen Joe Establishment lately?

He is another one missing in action when the kitchen gets very hot!

I guess it is hard to slice and dice a unanimous decison by a high court!

I bet everyone missed this one from the Ameena 918am blog...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We appreciate the comments of several council members regarding "quitting the fight with Extra Value Liquors." We never wanted the fight but it was imposed on us by the Legal Dept. and specifically City Prosecutor Francis Cuneo. The city council members may have forgotten but in the early stages of this battle we apologized for this legitimate sting and promised never to run one again in an "offer and compromise settlement" drafted by our attorney Ms. Irene Bahr. We even offered to pay a fine of $1500.00 for this sting which the Appellant Court described as not only legal but a "furtherance of the Liquor Control Act."(Napegate Man quote from Naperville Sun 2/8/95)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Think about this...

1. He apologizes for doing nothing wrong...the sting was legal!

2. He promised not to ever do it again since it upset them!

3. He offers to pay $1,500.00 fine even though he is innocent!

This is a classic case of someone who wanted to plead guilty knowing he was innocent to avoid what he knew was coming....a $200,000 legal bill for his defense!

Now why would the city not accept this reasonable offer from an INNOCENT man! Simple! They wanted him out of town and they knew they could easily outspend him in the judicial system as they had access to our TAXPAYER FUNDS! Remember this quote of former Mayor Macrane from Ameena's blog----"THAT FORMER MAYOR PRICE COULDN'T RUN HIM OUT OF TOWN BUT I WILL." It just fits like a puzzle!

They were right! They could outspend him and they did to the tune of one million, two million or three million dollars. We well never know! The records were destroyed or hidden by former Mayor Macrane before he passed away.

What they underestimated is his will power! His steadfastness! They hoped to have him bankrupted before the proceedings were over. They charged him in ways where they put him in 3 differnet court paths forcing him to retain 4 attorneys! Somehow he outlasted them and beat them just as he did in all those City Council meetings including ATT, Spring Green and SW GATE.

In summary rather than accept an apology from an innocent man, accept a $1500 fine from an innocent man, accept a promise not to run legal stings anymore from an innocent man, they attempted to try to run him out of town at a cost of millions to taxpayers. Go figure!

Their is no comparison between the Naperage Case and Furstenau Case. One is all facts and one is all rumor and hearsay! In the Napergate Case the city actually fired all its missiles at Basim Esmail. In the Furstenau Case we have a cop who never fired a single bullet! I see no similarities and agree with the majority who feel the Furtenau Case is very weak...hanging by a thread!

Mr. Moderator,
This is a very unusual thread. Is there not another side to this story?

I have never seen a case so black and white go so wrong.

How, Mr. Moderator did this case get so out of control?

I just don't understand how the brakes on the railroading weren't turned on till 5 years later. I thought the judicial system can put brakes on much earlier when they see such an obvious railroading!

Please shed some light! The Naperville Sun must know something these bloggers don't know. What is your opinion?

What is the host's opinion who opened this case with that thread about "Any topic you want to discuss" and suddenly posted 46 Napergate titles of ads?

You guys must know something you are not telling us!!!

Adam: Granted it's an unusual thread, but it seems to be a highly unusual case. The ads were posted online to start the discussion that many bloggers brought up of their own accord. We have no agenda here - and are certainly not withholding anything we know. The blogs have been informative to us as well as the citizen journalists (bloggers) of Naperville. Thanks.

Adam,
I think why the system did not work until 5 years later for the Napergate Man can be found in Ameena's posting of 918am on the partial reading of the 25 page Appellant Court ruling against the City of Naperville in a unanimous and rare consensus in this kind of case.

Notice this quote from the Apellant Court:

"The appellant court went on to further state "our review of the record discloses that the plaintiffs have implemented an exemplary program for catching minors attempting to purchase alcohol at their stores. Other evidence presented in mitigation, such as the large numbers of confiscated identifications turned over to the Naperville Police(206) as compared to the other 104 Naperville liquor licenses combined(38) and also the testimony of a Naperville police officer which would have stated that Esmail's enforcement's effort were exemplary as compared to other licenses, was erroneously excluded at the local hearing. Furthermore, testimony as to the city prosecutor's statement that a self sting operation would be "commendable" and evidence of other penalties of other penalties imposed on the Naperville licenses for sales to minors should have also been allowed into evidence at the mitigation stage to help determine the appropriate penalty for Extra Value Liquors."(Appellant Court quote)."

The problem with this case is the City of Naperville had what we call a "Kangaroo Style Trial" for the Napergate Man. They allowed all their "evidence" in but refused to allow the Napegate Man to enter his "evidence." At one point the Napergate Man lost even before the Illinois Liquor Control Commmission. He was not only innocent but he had the best liquor attoreny in the State of Illinos. She was the former head of that department for a decade!
But the ILCC was only allowed to review the evidence in the Kangaroo Trial Proceedings that took place in Naperville. So they ruled "properly" agasint him since they had no way of knowing about the methods Naperville used in the Kangaroo Trial.

I think somewhere along the line in one of 3 tracks he was fighting, a District Judge or possibly the Appellant Court was able to rule that the City of Naperville had conducted an improper trial by denying him the right to enter a defense. At that point as you stated, Adam, it did become a black and white case and fell like dominos as another blogger indicated.

The Appellant Court pretty much tells you the Kangaroo Court in Naperville would not allow crucial evidence. In that one paragraph they mention 4 crucial items the KC would not allow in.
I can not imagine what else they did not let in. One would have to read the lengthy 25 page ruling to learn more about this travesty of justice. It is a very sad story but in the end it did work for the Napergate Man after he was out $200,000 of his hard earned money.

If he would have run out of funds before the injustice was uncovered and the cover-up was unraveled, I suspect he would have been a the Homeless Man instead of the Napergate Man!

Naperville Lawyer,
Thanks for helping me interpret what I am reading in the ads. He does discuss the Appellant Verdict in other ads. You can only put so much in one section of an ad. So he discussed the District and Appellant verdicts in many different ads as space permitted. The Naperville Sun pages were 50% larger at the time but there was simply to much information in that unanimous AC ruling to put in his ads

The entire verdict was against the city with one exception! The only item he was found guilty was a technicality of sorts that he never denied and stipulated to very early on. I guess the manager of the store went to the bank to get some coin for the store and stopped at Jewel to pick up limes and lemons at a slow time. He left an experienced clerk by himself for an hour and a half as the Naperville Sun Sarah Koci correctly reported in the Sunday edition. Being under surveillance and selective enforcement, the Naperville Police were able to nail him immediately for this petty violation! According to the Appellant Court no one else was ever nailed for such a petty violation which in their opinion bordered on selective enforcement. Thus they refused to penalize him for this infraction DESPITE his "pleading of guilt."

AS FAR AS WHAT ELSE WAS NOT PERMITTED IN THE HEARING YOU PROPERLY COINED THE KANGAROO COURT:

His petition of 3340 supporters as detailed in Napergate XXXIX was not permitted to be entered into the record of the Kangaroo Court or the Illinois Liquor Control Commission, the latter only being allowed to review what Naperville allowed into the record. So basically we have a higher Commission reviewing only what a Kangaroo Court provided!

Irene Bahr, the former Chief Counsel of the Illinois Liquor Control Commission, for the entire State of Illinois, who was his attorney for this phase of the case, drafted this petition for him. In it she asked Naperville Residents who knew this man was a strict operator, cards and confiscates IDs, to come forward and sign this petition that would be entered as a court record. He ran one of his powerful Napergate Ads and asked residents to come to his store and sign this petition. In response to that ad in the Sun which had 22,000 circulation at the time, 3340 residents came to his store within 10 days to sign the petition from every corner of Naperville. An average of 334 petition signers per day!

The City of Naperville was rushing the local proceedings so he only ran one Napergate ad regarding this petition and could not follow it up with another one to add to that total. All the signees were required to give their full name, address, and phone number in order for the courts to be able to authenticate the long petition.

The Kangaroo Court refused to allow this petition into evidence as well as all the other evidence Mr. Naperville Lawyer pointed out. It either got entered into evidence at the District Level or Appellant Level. The Appellant Court was astonished and repeatedly described his program as exemplary and commended him many many times in their 25 page ruling.

While I have not yet found or read all his Napergate Ads, but I also believe(not verified yet) that the Kangaroo Court did not allow into evidence his Kylix Trophy which he earned for coming in 1st place in the USA at the National Finals held in Las Vegas. He beat out 500 contestants form all 50 states for that Trophy!

I think Naperville knew the only chance they had of winning this case was not to allow him to enter his powerful evidence. I have no clue why they would not give him a fair trial or even the semblance of a fair trial. My guess is they again underestimated his abilities to battle and miscalculated how it would eventually blow up in their face.

In many of his ads that were not coined Napergate, he ran coupons along the entire outer border of the large full page and right inside the border he did his editorializing. The confusion between the Naperville Sun stating there were 44 Napergate ads and the Napergatians saying there was over a 100, were these full page ads that were half liquor and half commentary. Those he did not call Napergate but were just as effective. Most of his ads were run 2 or 3 times. One powerful full page Napergate ad he actually ran 4 times! He also ran a sequence of ads before the Napergate Series. I will tell you about those later in another blog! They were also very powerful!

The ads blasted numerous city officials with razor sharp words that were not kind and bordered on slander and libel....but somehow he never crossed the thin line! He once mentioned that his attorneys reviewed his ads for slander and libel and challenged anyone to sue him for libel or slander, after the accusation was made to him. No one ever came forward and sued him! He apparently was advised carefully by his attorneys how far he could take his attacks. Plus his ads were also reviewed by Sun Attorneys locally and in Copley Headquarters in California. Copley was the previous owner of the Sun that was Pro-Establishment. They did not even bother sending a reporter to this historic and unusual trial.

The Napergate ads went thru 6 legal reviews before being published, so the odds of 6 attorneys missing a slanderous or libelous word was 0 to none. This frustrated William Brestal who did want to sue him and settled instead for a hollering match with Napergate Man in the hallways outside of City Hall.

While researching at the library last night, I went further back in time and noticed many ads prior to his Napergate ads. Basim Esmail had the internal catchy headings but not that title of NAPERGATE which he had yet not coined. The NAPERGATE ads went only from I to XXXXIV.(1-44)

One ad I found that preceded Napergate was dated May 7, 1993.

These were the sub-headings:

KANGAROO JUSTICE

NAPERVILLE'S CREDIBILITY

DOUBLE STANDARD

ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAXPAYER

LATEST SCOREBOARD(210-17 IDs for him compared to all the rest of the licensees)

It appears he was ahead of Blogger Naperville Lawyer by 15 years in realizing he had been given a Kangaroo Trial.

In this ad, he was outraged that the City of Naperville called the Village of Roselle and successfully persuaded Roselle to deny his license for his store there. Roselle in fact DENIED the renewal of his license based on the call and a faxed verdict of the Kangaroo Proceedings!

The Napergate Man took Roselle Village officials a transcipt of the proceedings of the Kangaroo Court. An independent one month investigation was launched by the Mayor of Roselle, the Police Chief of Roselle and the Village Prosecutor.

After the completion of the investigation into the Naperville Proceedings, the Roselle officials reversed themselves and ruled for the Napergate Man. Not only did they renew his license but issued him a 2nd license to use at a second location.(Again the Napergate Man gets one of his famous REVERSALS which seems to be his trademark)

In this non-Napergate ad, he also reveals that Naperville officials introduced a "former charge" in his Kangaraoo Trial that

"had been nolle prosse'd(dismissed) by 2 Dupage prosecutors after determining it was without merit. A judge had ordered it expunged! (A videotape had clearly shown that the charge brought by Naperville was a result of a big lie.) Only a Kangaroo Court such as the one in Naperville would violate a person's civil rights by introducing EXPUNGED MATERIAL."(Quote by Basim Esmail before he became the Napergate Man running Napergate Ads)

Here is a quote from his section titled:

ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE TAXPAYER

We invite all Naperville taxpayers to carefully scrutinize the city's alleged charges against Extra Value Liquors. As a city official, Prosecutor Francis Cuneo should be held accountable to the taxpayer and must explain and justify expenses incurred over the last 2 years to come as a result of court appeals and federal civil rights suits. The taxpayer must decide if he wants Francis Cueno wasting his money pursuing uncorroberated, unsubstantiated, and unproven false charges, in order to exercise a personal vendetta. If you have any proof, other than the rubber stamped verdict of your Kangaroo Court, Mr. Francis Cuneo, I, and all taxpayers would love to see it."( Basim Esmail quote preceding Napergate Era)

As you can see Basim Esmail issued his public threats at the Naperville Prosecutor. He called him out! Cuneo did not come out! The rest is history! Basim Esmail not only executed all his threats but succeeded in reversing everything. I guess you can be assured if this guy said he was going to do something, HE DID IT! He was obviously not a talker!(Ameena quote).

MORE TO COME IN THE NEXT BLOGS.....

I promise you ALL will be shocked when you hear which powerful entity the Napergate Man took on next and forced to reverse its decision. (It seems like if he was not coined Mr. Napergate he could have easily been coined Mr. Reversal)

I bet you BLOGGERS 10 dollars you will never guess! It has not been discussed yet by any blogger on any thread. You are going to have to simply guess or spend a month in the library to figure this one out!

MUST POST YOUR ANSWER ON THIS THREAD WITHIN 24 HOURS TO WIN THE BET!

The answer will be published hopefully tomorrow! Start your guessing? No hints! Sorry!

Ameena,
My guess is he may have taken on the Naperville Park District. I believe they provided the Judge for the kangaroo liquor proceedings. I can't remember his name but he worked for the Park District possibly as a park police officer.

Correction in 11:34am blog

"As a city official, Prosecutor Francis Cuneo should be held accountable to the taxpayer and must explain and justify expenses incurred over the last 2 years [and years] to come as a result of court appeals and federal civil rights suits."

I accidentally left out [and years] while trancribing the Napergate's Man quote! It did not make sense without the missing 2 words. My fault! Sorry!

I guess the Napergate Man predicted or knew what was coming next!

Ameena,

My guess would be the police chief or dept!

Ok, Ameena, I am going to guess he went to the City Council and blasted the Council Members and forced them to stop funding all these appeals. In essence reversing its decision to fund the 3 tier court proceedings any further!

My guess is he succeeded since the case never made the Supreme Court due to the city never making the final appeal(s).

I have to agree with McFarland. Somewhere it was mentioned the city council voted to appeal the District Court decision. I believe they appealed to the Appellant Court and lost.

So the city council must have voted not to appeal to the Supreme Court since we know none of his numerous cases of the 90s ever made it to the Supreme Court in the second round unlike the first round in the 80s that did in fact end up in the Supreme Court before the City was overturned.

Ameena,
I am sorry but I am utterly confused. I am not sure what is going on and I can't find your question.

Could you be kind enough to explain the question and possibly reposting it as I must be overlooking it. Or at least give me the time of the blog that it is in!

Thanks!

Ameena,
While I believe you mentioned South West Gate(SW corner of Naper. Blvd and 75th St.), I don't recall you ever mentioning that the Napergate Man stopped Brestal from building a huge mulit-story office complex/retail shopping center at that location.

He definetly stopped the Brestal locomotive on that one. We have not seen any action in nearly a decade on that plot. It remains farmland with corn grown each year!

This battle which concerned my subdivision seems to get lost because it was overshadowed by the Spring Green battle taking place almost at the same time.

So my guess is the Napergate Man REVERSED the Brestal Law Firm. I am not even sure he took it to council because the Napergate Man showed him what we becoming if he did from the Spring Gate fiasco. But I am not sure and my memory has faded as to whether it went to council or Brestal simply withdrew due to massive pressure from the Naperate Man and his ads on behalf of our subdivison!

I think McFarland nailed the answer!

Naperville lawyer: Your point about the "court believed" is well taken. Consider it a slip on my part, and I stand corrected. I look forward to your take on the matter after you read the story in Sunday's Sun. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Posted by: Jim Lynch, moderator | January 19, 2008 10:02 AM

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Jim,
I assumed after your above blog you would correct the introduction. I suppose you were busy and just forgot. So I thought I would mention it again in hopes we can get a correction.

Thanks!

Marybeth,

I would like to state that your guess that the Police Chief had anything to do with the perseuction of Basim Esmail is wrong and without foundation.

I live in Naperville and read every Napergate Ad not once but twice. I read all his other ads too. Not once did Mr. Esmail accuse Police Chief Dial of any improprieties. Not once that I can recall! In fact I believe if my memory serves me right, he praised him once or twice.

It seems all bloggers, anti-establishment or establishment, Napergatians or anti-Napergatian, pro-Furstena or anti-Furstenau seem to understand current Mayor Pradel has nothing to do with Napergate. I think everyone is correct here. It seems like all the bloggers did their homework and realized Mayor Pradel was not even Mayor when this fiasco was ongoing.

Unfortunately or fortunately, Chief Dial was Chief during the Napergate Court Proceedings. It is only logical that he would be under unjustifed suspician by the bloggers. Starting to point you finger at him by guessing can easly escalate.

Let me point you to the determination by Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force which issued a rebuke to the City of Naperville. Here is part of the determination:

"The penalties invoked by Naperville against this retailer have been ridiculously harsh and designed to put him out of business even for the first offense. The evidence seems to indicate harassment, discrimination, and trumped up charges and testimony. The conduct exhibited by the government of the City on Naperville, the City Attorney and some members of its police department is conspiratorial and is reminiscent of fascism."

This organization did a thorough job of investigation and put themselves on the line with such a statement. It is a multi-billion organization so it would not have made this finding without being 100% certain for fear of subjecting itself to a libel suit and risking its portfolio of wealth. It did not take this case lightly because one of their own who was crowned National Champion for his outstanding efforts against minors, was being wronged and they needed to get to the bottom of it or they would have had their reputation sullied and credibility shattered for in essence having selected a "criminal" as the City Prosecutor was alleging publically.

But if you read this IABTF report carefully, it says nothing about Chief Dial being involved.It pins it down to the City Attorney, unnamed City Officials and some members of the police department but not the Chief. Naperville police officers have daily contact with City Attorneys especially in courtrooms. They have respect for City Attorneys and try to meet their requests whenever they can.

I believe in this case it was the City Attorney who was stirring the police in the wrong direction. He obviously was trying to implement a political agenda given to him by the prior Mayors and possibly some council members. It is my belief that City Attorney planted the seeds that made many police officers do what they did against Mr. Esmail without any knowledge or consent whatsoever of Chief Dial.

Prosecutor Francis Cuneo would probably tell certain police officers with a wink and a nod, this Esmail guy is a bad guy and I need some help on him. They believed him and proceeded to collect whatever "evidence" they could. I am sure some were just trying to please or impress Cuneo. I do not believe these police officers knew what Proseuctor Francis Cuneo's agenda was on behalf of former Mayors Price and Macrance. But police officers are trained to have a sixth sense and it is apparent all their 6th senses failed miserably in this case!

Police officers don't usually question prosecutors. If he told them he was a bad guy, go get some goods on him for me, they probably obeyed. I doubt they went to Chief Dial for permission or consent. Highly improbable!

I believe as the IABTF Organization there was a conspiracy of sorts against Esamil. Two Appellant Courts ruled likewise 2 years later but used softer language but their message was clear that there was a conpiracy against Mr. Esmail.

Personally, I believe there was a conspiracty too, but I am very confident that Chief David Dial would never participate in such a thing knowingly or unknowingly! As a Police Chief with 200 officers he could not have possibly known he had some rogue cops on the loose especailly in the early stages. There are many levels of command between him, the patrol officer and detectives who were responsible for the discrimination, harrassment, trumped up charges and testimony as indicated by the IABTF report.

Most blogges have given Mayor Pradel all the credit for stopping this conspiracy. He deserves all the credit he has been given, but I also believe Chief Dial was instrumental in stopping it once he learned how extensive it was. I would be surprised if Internal Affairs did not dicipline all officers involved under the guidance of Chief Dial.

Ameena is doing a great job digging this case up! It is a huge and complex case but it was well documented in both court records and Napergate Ads. I believe shortly Ameena will find the Napergate Ad or Ads in which Mr. Esmail actually praised Chief Dial as being a good man. Mr. Esmail seemed to know exactly who was targeting him. And he blasted those who targeted him by name. He did target quite a few police officers by name but Chief Dial I am rather certain was not one of these police officials.

If Chief Dial was involved in the conspiracty, Mr. Esmail would have targeted him. The man called it as it was and never held back. He targeted specifically the 2 Mayors preceding Mr. Pradel, Prosecutor Francis Cuneo, City Attorney Mike Roth and several police officers by name.

For the record I am a police officer who resides in Naperville. I do not belong to the fine Naperville Police Dept. I do not know Mrs. Police Officer but I have read her blogs and agree with everything she has said so far!

I only stepped in because I fear an innocent man like Chief Dial could easily have his reputation tarnished on these blogs based on rumor, heresay and innuenda. I do not think this is fair!

I do not believe Marybeth had any deliberate hostile intentions.
However in this blogging world it seems like the smallest thing could be blown out of proportion if it is not nipped in the butt very early. That was my only intention behind coming on for the first time!

I think like many bloggers that Mr. Esmail is an honorable man.
But I also know that Chief David Dial is an honorable man who would never be directly or knowingly involved in the travesty of justcie and unequal treatment committed against Mr. Esmail.

There were city officials, city attorneys and police involved but Chief David Dial was not involvled. I suspect when he learned the extent of the conspiracy he worked very closely with current Mayor Pradel to stop it. I beleive it was stopped! Kudos to both of them!

I commend both Mayor Pradel and Chief Dial for stepping up to the plate and stopping this occurence that went on way too long.

One also needs to realize most of the culprits in this case have either retired or passed away. There may be some low level police officers that were involved still on the force, but in essence they were taking orders from the wrong authority.

The lesson to be learned here is every police officer has a duty to remain non-political during the performance of his duties. He has a duty to take guidance only from the Police Chief and his direct superiors. He is not to take orders from a City Attorney or Mayor who are usually very politically motivated individuals.

A mistake was made here by many policemen! A settlement was made for the improprieties committed. Several courts ruled in favor of Mr. Esmail! We need to learn from the lessons of the past and move forward.

One thing Marybeth and others need to learn from Mr. Esmail, is you never point your finger until you have the facts. He always had the facts to back him up and in the final outcome he won all his cases. But if he would have accused one person wrongfully, his credibility would have been shattered and his case would have collapsed.

So I hope the bloggers maintain their credibilty as Mr. Esmail did and not point fingers at the wrong individuals. Finally, I want to remind all the Mr. Esmail never pointed his finger at Chief David Dial! Not once to the best of my recollection and I read each and every one of his Naperage and non-Napergate ads more than once. I admit I did doubt the authenticity of his ads initially as his story seemed so far fetched, but as the overwhelming evidence and facts surfaced day by day, I began to believe what I was reading.

What I or anyone else believes or does not believe at this point has become irrelavant....mute may be a better word. The Appellant Courts made their findings and their rulings are final! We must live with them and accept them. The city chose not to appeal so in essence they also accepted them as the FINAl WORD in this saga!

c'mon naperville sun. what is all this conjecture between the napergate man and sad old, forlorn DICK ? it is an embarrassment to bring all the DICK supporters, DICK hanger-on-er's dare i say, DICK lovers, back into this fray. i find NO proof of any link, correlation, any leap of faith to even suggest this. it is a lame attempt to start up this silly argument with a few nancy drew wanna-be's and too much time on their hands, pseudo legal assistants rushing to their computers to find tiny tid-bit's of misinformation to try and justify their distaste and in some cases hatred for the police dept. and the city of naperville employee's. NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER ! is it any wonder that drew peterson, scott peterson, o.j. simpson even charles manson, have supporters, admirer's, women and men who propose marriage and blindly believe in the obvious lie ? you people need to take your DICK for senate posters off your walls now, unplug your computers, and return that al gore's "inconvenient truth " movie back to the library. it is four months over due now!

Ameena,
I have to agree with McFarland. The Napergate Man must have flip flopped the council who were funding this craziness for 5 years.

Once the Council Stopped the Funding, the City Attorneys and City Prosecutors had to surrender.

They had 2 choices:

1. Put up their own money.

2. Shut up!

It seems like they could not put their money where their mouths were....only the taxpayers money went down their mouths, out of their wazoos and down the toilet!

I would never ever vote for a tax increase. When city officials have excess money they apparently persecute political opponents like the Napergate Man! This is really a Sad Saga! It is hard to believe this kind of thing could happen in modern times and in our town.

I am assuming when they voted us second best town they did not know of our Watergate! If they would have, we would have been in big trouble....our ranking would have went down the toilets right with our hard earned taxes.

==================================================================

Police Officer,

You speak a good line! Internal affairs..huh!!!
Show me one officer who was disciplined by Internal Affairs for the wrongdoing to the Napergate Man! All I am asking for is one!
You state correctly the Napergate Man backs himself with facts and we should all be like him....good talk!

But where are your facts to show Interal Affairs did anything on this case or any case where a civilian was abused by police?

It is well known that Internal Affairs at the NPD is purely for public consumption and has never ruled for a civilian in the last 50 years.

Show me one article in the Naperville Sun or Daily Herald where Interal Affairs suspended a cop for one day as a result of an encounter with a civilian.

The only Internal Affairs investigation I ever heard of is a police officer arresting another police officer for driving drunk on the roads and endangering civilians. Guess who was punished!
The arresting officer for violating the Code of Blue. Not the intoxicated officer who was endangering civilians. Go figure!
Internal Affairs should stand for Internal Cover-up!

Do you think we were born last night, Police Officer?

You defense of Chief Dial is nonsense! Those are his police officers. He needed to have control over them. The fact he did not indicates he may have lost control of his department! Some may even say he was incompetant for not knowing a band of his cops were harrassing an innocent man to further political agendas of their buddy...THE PROSECUTOR!

I wonder if this prosecutor ever tried one single cop in his life before he retired for a DUI. My guess is he never tried a Naperville Cop for a DUI!

I am going against McFarland's answer and the few who are agreeing with him on the Ameena question of "Who else did the Napergate Man reverse?"

The Napergate Man could not have flipped this vote(reversed it) on funding of his trial.

Here is why:
Since this was a legal matter, the voting on continuing to fund or not to fund this lenghty ordeal, was taking place in Executive Session!

No one is allowed in Executive Session to the best of my knowledge except the council members. Maybe a court reporter...not sure! It is suppose to be secret....very secret! So the Napergate Man could have never done what McFarland stated since Executive Session is off limits to nearly everyone!

What may be the cause of confusion is that the Napergate Man reported a vote of 5-2 from within executive session to continue funding his trial from District Courts to the Appellants Courts. There is no way he could have been there! It was most likely a leak to him by one of the 2 council members who voted to stop the charade.

I believe they were Jack Tenison and Douglas Krause. One has to assume one of these 2 council members leaked the secret executive vote to the Napergate Man. Since it was 2 and they were probably in cohoots on the leak, they knew they could never be identified singularly as long as they did not break their pact of silence as to who tipped off the Napergate Man for his Napergate Weekly Edition!

I am sure the tip was deliberate to get the Napergate Man to publish it and see if more pressure can be imposed on the other 5 to change their vote once the Napergate Man told them the city intended to continue to spend their money on a hopeless and worthless trial.( I believe the City Council only had 7 members at the time and not 9...hopefully this will avoid confusion.)

Yes, the Napergate Man published the tip! And yes, they did reverse. So I guess I just realized I proved myself wrong while trying to prove myself right...lol... But I will save face by stating it was an indirect reversal by the Napergate Man and not a direct reversal. I think Ameena's question implied DIRECT REVERSALS and not indirect ones as this appears to have been!

That is my analysis! I am pretty sure I am right that civilians can not enter EXECUTIVE SESSIONS!

Maybe the Moderator or Host can help us out about who is allowed to enter executive sessions of the council?

Thanks!
PS. In summary I will go with the fact that he did get a reversal but it was indirect due to a leak and then pressure from his Napergate Ad. If I don't make sense it is because I wrote before I thought this one time! Sorry!

I have no clue who else the Napergate Man took on.

I suspect Mrs. Police Officer has all the answers but was ordered to stop blogging by the Police Chief!

Something does not make sense, since she was so helpful providing us with all the answers from the opposite side of the aisle!

I wish Mrs. Police Officer would come back and shed some light as she did in the past.

PS. Sorry, Host this is a re-post. I posted on another thread while I was there reading and forgot to switch back when writing on my post of most interest...to much going on these threads but it is definetly a fun world.

D. Bone,
You write very poorly compared to the other bloggers on this thread. You don't capitalize, you have run in sentences, terrible punctuation, and no logic to your thoughts.

Above all you don't read! I did not find anyone comparing DF to the Napergate Man in the last 15-20 blogs. Mostly, the bloggers are remembering and revisiting the Napergate Man and discussing this historic case.

I think many of us simply got tired of discussing whether DF touched a cop or did not touch a cop. Once we saw this case with its many twists and turns, the DF case just became way to dull and boring. That is why we are all here discussing a new subject the Moderator and Host put up for us.

The discussion on this thread is intellectual...by both sides of the debate. We have a Police Officer and a Mrs. of the Police Officer who are siding with the city but present very worthy and intellectual arguments. We enjoy debating them! They enjoy debating us! It is all civil and polite. You seem to wanting to stir some trouble like Joe in the old days. Apparently, he retired and we no longer have to nitpick sentences to understand their meanings.

Take your hogwash and go blog with those District 204 people who yell and scream all day. That is where you belong!

This is a thread for intellectuals of which you are not one...sorry! With your writing and reading skills, I am not the least bit surprised that you are overwhelmed by this thread and can not handle the flow of information.

Have a good day!

oh my dear walter, an intellectual debate, how exciting. first off, i believe they are RUN ON sentences, not run IN. and perhaps i actually might know they are run on sentences and really don't care. now, back to our intellectual discussion. i believe the topic of this thread IS a correlation between mr. napergate guy and our beloved DICK. and what do you mean i don't capitalize ? now, what is this US against THEM notion you seem to be hinting at ? are you us or are you them ? it is my observation, and you all must know i am not an intellectual so take it for what it is. that there are 3 maybe upwards to 7 people who will defend DICK until the day THEY DIE, the sooner the better. nothing will sway their opinion. they will fight on and on. now, i ask you is this logical thinking? i simply want to point out there will always be a fringe element that believes the wrong truth. finally, when you are all just remembering and revisiting this historic case, are you really not comparing it to this new and historic case ? are you not rooting for another victory for one of your own ? and walter, i am having a very good day, thanks.

Marilyn,
I am still here. I have been reading many of the threads trying to learn more about my city. I guess I stopped writing mainly because I felt like I said what I had to say. I did not originally write because I wanted to be a cheerleader for the NPD, but because I felt like I had a different perspective.

Unfortunately, I began to feel like my perspective was not being met with receptive minds, because there sure were a lot of venomous responses (while not in all cases, enough to make me stop for a deep breath). I don't mind a good debate, but I don't like feeling attacked - and knowing my limitations, I did not think I could continue to reiterate my responses without being on the attack myself.

I wish I could add more to this thread, but I don't know much about Napergate Man. I'm learning here. I missed the Sunday edition of the Sun and have not had a chance to find the article, but when I have a moment to do so, I might have something to say. I did ask my husband about this a while back and he only seemed to remember the basics which I have learned here.

I hope to have something valuable to contribute in the near future. And so far, no one has asked me to - or ordered me to stop writing. That would probably only light my fire anyway. :)

By the way for Everyone,

Please say a prayer for the family of Batavia Police Officer Carl Ensign, who apparently committed suicide. He was only 43 years old.

Thank you.

Marshall,
You make so much sense in your 911am post. You went out to disprove McFarland but you ended up agreeing with him while doing your anaylsis. And you were bold enough to change your mind while it appears in the process of writing your thoughts!

I have to agree that the Napergate Man finally cut off the funds to his own persecution and used a leak in Executive Session to pressure the other 5 council members by in essence exposing the bad guys who were using taxpayer money to pursue an innocent man.

I can't imagine a city as large and wealthy as Naperville would be meeting in Executive Session to authorize another petty 1000 dollars out of the 5000-1000 dollars that the pro-tem City Manager claims was used to fight the Napergage Man. That bordered on the most laughable thing I have heard in my life especially after what they told Sun Editor Tim West at the time "that they failed to keep records on the cost of the trial." The city must think that comments they make are not recorded by newspapers and quickly forgotten. Apparently achives of the Naperville Sun exist both at the newspaper and Naperville Public libraries.

So I guess you can say as blogger Joe constantly states, the city manager was "called out." The city manager has no defense or evidence to support his outrageous statement so he decided to go into hiding and will not come out until this mess about his comment will boil over. My suspician is he will be remembered solely for his infamous comment "that a 5 year trial that travelled in 3 different court systems and reached the second highest court twice, only cost us taxpayers 5-10k."

A DUI case costs 5-10k in legal costs and fines, if it is settled in a month or two with a "plea of guilty with court supervision." Has the pro-tem City Manager never retained an attorney in his life? Does he not know police officers make a 100,000 a year with over time in his own dept? So how does he expect 5 outside lawyers to work for 5 years for 5-10k. I guess they were donating their services to the wealthiest large town in the USA!

My point is, the city council was having these secret Executive Sessions to authorize the millions needed(not thousands) to fight this monstrous case that THEY created....no one else but THEM!

It is like they charged him falsely 12 times and suddenly found themselves being attacked not by one tiger but 3500 tigers supporting the leading tiger.

That final vote in executive session was the final surrender in the case of Napergate, and it was a reversal from 5-2 for to "something" against. I don't think we will know the figure of the "against vote" because I suspect Tenison and Krause were both chewed out for the prior leak. It had to be one or the other or both working in tandem to let out that Watergate Style Leak.

But if I were to guess, that Executive Session vote was reversed from 5-2 to 0-7 due to the exposure it was given in the Napergate ads and the resulting pressure. Plus Editor Tim West also called them out publicly. He had never called any City Official out ever before or after in his entire career that I can recall, so that had to carry some heavy weight at the time!

The city was very sensitive to media exposure that had the far reaching effects of Napergate ads in the Naperville Sun at its peak distibution in the Napergate Era.

City officials had made a calcualted determination that the Napergate Man could affect the next city council elections and reacted accordingly.

In the latest Ponds of Hobson West case they made a calcualted determination that the 5-10 residents present in the city council would have no effect on the next election and ignored them.

How this city really works has began unravelling with the revisting of the Napergate Man and Ameena's summarizing and even publishing some sections and quotes from those famous ads.

This has really been a very informative revisiting of significant history in Naperville! My thanks to the moderator and host for getting us off the petty Furstenau Case of "he touched and he did not touch!" The Napergate Case put the Furstenau Case in perspective. The Furstenau Case is an insignifanat case in which we will learn little to nothing! Studying the Napergate case allows us to learn how politics in the city works. It teaches us the importance of a grassroots movement, voting, media pressure, freedom of speech, credibility and many other issues including the intricacies of our judicial system and how it malfuncions often! Enough said!

D. Bone,
If you would read this thread in its entirety you will see little to no rooting for DF.

Most bloggers seem to think he has an insignifant case and should drop it. I get the feeling they like DF but that he should not be suing. That is the message I am grasping from having read this entire thread.

You ought to take an hour or two and read it. You may learn something and actually be pleased!

I was teasing your about your writing. You write fine! But I just want you to try READING!

Have a nice evening D. Bone and enjoy your READING session!

Moderator,
I missed the Sunday article on the Napergate Man! How does one go back and find the Sunday Edition on the Internet Site!

I would really love to read it.

Note from Ted, host:

Just go to the home page, www.napersun.com, and click on NEWS. You'll see headlines for all the day's stories for the past couple weeks, including the Napergate story listed under Sunday, January 20. It's under the headline, "Battle for Rights Not Foreign to Naperville."

Jenny,
Sorry my question was buried in a long post I made. Let me try again.

"I promise you ALL will be shocked when you hear which powerful entity the Napergate Man took on next and forced to reverse its decision. (It seems like if he was not coined Mr. Napergate he could have easily been coined Mr. Reversal)"

The question was which other powerful entity did the Napegate Man reverse a decision of?

On these blogs it has been reported by others and I, the many decisions that the Napergate Man reversed!

HERE ARE SOME REVERSALS I KNOW OF:

1. He forced the City Council to reverse a vote of 7-0 to switch from ATT to MCI. He lobbied 7600 ATT(Lucent) employees thru a few Napergate ads and they marched to city chambers. The vote was reversed from 7-0 for to 7-0 against. Apparently the city council members forgot that 7600 ATT employees worked in Naperville while no MCI employees worked in Naperville. It was a terrible move by the council to save each resident a penny and a half annually on their tax bill. It ignored the benefits 7600 Naperville employees provide to our city.

2. The Napergate Man forced the City Council to reverse twice on Spring Green. I initially thought it was once but Host Ted proved me wrong and provided an article showing a second 7-2 reversal in 1998 before the final 7-2 reversal in 1999. Originally they voted 9-0 for this project! Between these votes they stabbed the Napergatians and Spring Green folks twice in the back when they were not present in chambers.(Those votes were 6-3 and 5-3 for the commercial development.)

3. In S. W. Gate(75th and Naper) either the Napergate Man reversed a vote or stopped Brestal's project of a combination high rise office/commercial shopping center from proceeding. He blasted the project in 2 or 3 Napergate ads which caused Brestal to at least back off. He has not returned in 9 years and corn continues to grow on that parcel to this day!(He was not against developing single family homes as zoning provided for in the Master Plan, but against rezoning to commercial to benefit "favorite sons" of the city who would reap immediate windfall profits such as a doubling or tripling of their money from a "single council vote" loaded with conflicts of interest due to heavy campaign contributions of those voting)!

Residents must understand if no controls are imposed on Brestal he would proceed to convert nearly every parcel of single family zoning to commercial zoning in Naperville. This usually doubles or triples the price of land immediately. It benefits the developers and Brestal's wallets. Many have given credit to city officials for being ranked second best town in the USA. The credit should go to the Napergate Man, his 3500 supporters and his elected endorsees for council, for preventing the town from being an asphalt and concrete town and keeping it balanced with the proper ratio of residential to commercial. He lobbied against at least a dozen projects and succeeded. And the warning was there when he did not lobby!

4. He did work on numerous projects around Naperville, but I do not know the outcome. He may have only been involved with giving the residents plugs in his Napergate ads and not involved in all City Council Meetings. But his ads specifically attack 8 other Brestal projects across Naperville besides Spring Gate and South West Gate!

5.He reversed the decision of the Kangaroo Proceedings that took place in Naperville.

6.He reversed the Village of Roselle after they yanked his license after reading the verdict of the Kangaroo Court in Naperville.

7.He reversed the Illinois Liquor Control Commission twice. Once in the 80s and once in the 90s. They ruled against him twice despite his attorney being the former Chief Legal Council for State Illinois Liquor Control Commission and top liquor attorney in the State of Illinois. She could not help him because the commission was limited to the biased record provided by the Kangaroo Court and did not have the authority to question its fairness. He did go to higher courts to overturn the commission and succeeded both times.

8.It appears Federal and Dupage Court rulings were overturned by a Federal Appellant Court and a State Appellant Court respectively.

9.I did not realize that the Napergate Man may have directly or indirectly been involved in overturning a decision by the council to continue funding his trial as Marshall and McFarland are stating. I believe they are right and I just missed that one! As the host/moderator indicated there are many citizen journalists on this site doing a great job including Marshall and McFarland!

10.HOWEVER I BELIEVE THERE IS ANOTHER REVERSAL OF A VERY SIGNIFICANT ENTITY THAT HAS NOT BEEN TOUCHED ON BY ANY BLOGGER. NO ONE HAS GOTTEN CLOSE! I MAY HAVE TO POST A HINT FROM ONE OF THE NAPERGATE ADS IN ANOTHER POST SHORTLY!

I BELIEVE WITH THIS HINT, SOME BLOGGERS WILL FINALLY GET THE RIGHT ANSWER!

IN THE MEANTIME KEEP THE GUESSES COMING WHILE I GO TO THE LIBRARY TO LOOK UP THE NAPERGATE AD THAT I BELIEVE CONTAINS THE HINT NEEDED TO SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!

Anyone interested in joining CONPA [citizens observing naperville police activities] is invited ,the more the merrier. By reading the past year blogs it is obvious,1) something is wrong inside NPD. the number for u.s. att'y 312-353-5300. NAPERVILLIANS you better get ready cause MORE federal civil rights violation claims are coming to your city.You can be part of the solutions or stick your head back in the ground. In otherwords $$$$$$$$$. To join C.O.N.P.A. call 815.242.0019,yes,you can make THE difference!

Posted by: mr q | January 23, 2008 10:29 AM

******************************************************************

I reposted this recent post from an inactive post on a Furstenau thread. I thought this was a more appropriate place for it since the issue is being dicussed here...hopefully there will not be an objection from the host or moderator.

"My inclination is to say 'Let's leave this dog lie." Siddall said.

I cannot believe that a "respected" Naperville Council Person would have used such words.

It is more shocking that a reporter would use this quote without any comment at all.

Does the reporter agree with this defamation of character?

And then maybe the quote speaks for itself.

Let sleeping dogs lie. It's an idiom.

To "let sleeping dogs lie" is to avoid restarting old conflicts. Revisiting an old conflict is like waking a sleeping dog; we are better not to do it. Example: "I wanted to ask her what she thought of her ex-husband, but I figured it was better to let sleeping dogs lie."

The dog is the court case in the Sun quote. Siddall is agreeing the case should be dropped. I don't know if Jenny and Napervillian are the same person, but before you attack the articles author, the editors and a former council person you should try and understand the meaning of the quote.

Mrs. of the Police Officer,
First, I want to welcome you back! Second, I want you to know I said a prayer for the family of Batavia Police Officer Carl Ensign. You did not mention the reason but I suspect it was stress of being an officer combined with all the other stresses of the world. My condolences go out to his family.

I do recall Melissa and I had a very heated debate with you. But I want you to know in no way were we attacking you. We were just picking your brain to learn from you since you had so much to offer from a different perspective.

Obviously I asked about you, because I missed you and your informative blogs.

I do not think people attacked you. I feel people respected you. Last time I checked the voting on best blogger, you were second favorite blogger behind Ameena. That says a lot since Ameena is almost like a full time investigative reporter working for the Sun, for I assume no pay. They got themselves a real bargain from that young lady!

I will say I regret not voting for you. I was not thinking clearly that day.

If I could reverse my vote as the Napergate Man seems famous for doing to other peoples votes, here is what my vote would have been.

1. Ameena
2. Mrs. of the Police Officer
3. Host/Moderator tied for 3rd.

My original vote was.

1. Ameena
2. The Moderator
3. The Host

I just was not thinking straight early that morning and I will admit I felt very guilty when you gave me a personal mention in your post for favorite blogger. You showed me respect despite our heated exchange, but I failed to reciprocate and show you the respect you deserve.

If the Host/Moderator would allow me to change my vote, I would!
Not that they not great, but I think we should have been voting for bloggers and not Hosts/Moderators. That was what the thread was about! My mistake and I apologize for not being fair to you!

Note from Ted, host:

Just go to the home page, www.napersun.com, and click on NEWS. You'll see headlines for all the day's stories for the past couple weeks, including the Napergate story listed under Sunday, January 20. It's under the headline, "Battle for Rights Not Foreign to Naperville."
__________________________________________________________________

Host, thanks for helping me track the article. I reposted your directions in case anyone else needs to find it. However I think the article was biased toward the city.

Let me give you one example from the article,

"The city claimed Esmail had given alcohol to a minor, in addition to other accusations, including the employment of one unregistered manager for an hour and a half."

The article describes the city's claim. But thru all those Napergate ad's he claimed he did not give alcohol to a minor.
He claimed he was running a "sting operation." After 5 years of legal battles it was determined rather strongly he was in fact running a "sting operation" in furtherance of some liquor control act. He was commended by both Appellant Courts for this "sting."

I read the article twice and your reporter, Ms. Koci, failed to mention one time what the crux of this case was about. It was not about a sale to a minor. It was about a "sting operation" to prevent sales to a minor. Something that my understanding is suppose to be commendable...not a sale to a minor!

I feel this slanted reporting continues to bash the Napergate Man's name a decade after he spent $200,000 defending himself in court and I am guessing another $100,000 paying for ads in your newspaper because you were not defending him at the time or maybe giving his side of the story is a better way to say it, since you do not have an obligation to defend him!

What does it take to clear one's name these days? If anything you should run an article slanted to his favor for a change. You have never run an article slanted to his favor in the 20 years I was a subscriber to the Sun before I finally cancelled my subscription due to your softness towards city officials and lack of any kind of investigative reporting. I did not cancel because of the internet as I enjoying reading my paper on the porch or sun room...plus I am obviously not internet savvy! I was looking for hours before I asked you for help. Thanks again!

As other old timers in my neighborhood think and feel, you have always been afraid of those in power in Naperville....the "establishment" as your new generation citizen reporters have identified them!

If you guys only did half as good a job as you citizen reporters do in reporting the news, your newspapers would not only sell 22,000 as in the Napergate days but 30,000. And it should even sell more due to the significant increase of the population from the Napergate Days.

The Naperville Sun has never really had a serious competitor in Naperville. If you have 15,000 subscribers, it is because you are not doing your job. If you have 30,000 subscribers it is because you are doing your job.

I asked you how to find this article on the net because my attempts to buy the paper on Sunday failed as it must have been sold out due to the Napergate Cover as word got out. Something unusual(a Sunday sell-out for the Sun) I understand from my neighbors who buy it once in a while at a newsstand instead of subscribe.

You can not blame your decline on the internet. Other papers like the Tribune and Sun-Times have declined 5-10% but they were dealing not only with internet but a stable Chicago population.

The Naperville Sun was dealing with a 50% growth in population!
Yet, had a decline from 22,000 in the Napergate Era to 15,200 before rebounding a touch according to either the host or moderator of this blog. I can't remember who it was! Sorry!

My opinion is your decline is due to your soft journalism and constantly catering to the establishment.

This article on the Napergate Man if reviewed carefully tries to give the city a "pretty look" for the massive injustice they committed against the Napergate Man.

I dare you to print that letter from the IABTF LIQUOR ORGANIZATION that told it as it was a decade ago. Their determination was backed by many high courts years later. The only reason you won't print a letter like that is you are continuing to hide the truth in the Napergate Story and do not want to expose the improprieties of City Officials some who are still in office, elected or otherwise!

It is pointless to hide the truth since everyone knows it from the grapevine in town. Why not really come out of the closet as one blogger said and tell the readers the truth for once and stop worrying about what city officials will think or which one of them will call you to complain!

I hope you can do a second article to re-balance that first article! The real story can be found in your archives and court records. It is just a matter of whether you have the courage to tell it!

Note from Ted Slowik, host:

I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. I don't think The Sun is soft these days, and I can't change what it was like 15 years ago. We're not afraid to tell any story, but we're not a history book, either. There are a lot of important issues going on today that demand our attention, and I'm not sure I see the value in additional print stories about the past. Plus, it's more than a little ironic, you calling us cowards when you don't even bother to make up a name.

Police Officer,
I read your lengthy defense of Chief David Dial. I decided to read it twice just as you read the Napergate ads twice. I wanted to be sure I understood you.

You are basically saying 5-10 Naperville Police Officers were hassling the Napergate Man and Chief Dial had no culpability. I don't buy that!

Here is why!

Say 5-10 waitresses or bartenders at Lou Malnati's or Bar Louie decided to invite their minor friends one day and let them buy liquor or have a party while the owner was absent. I deliberately chose large chains since owners are not usually able to be there all the time due to multiple locations.

My question is if this happened would the Naperville Police go only after the bartenders and waitresses who violated Liquor Control Acts or also pursue the owner and his liquor license.

I think everyone knows the answer to that question. The owner would be charged and his liquor license would be REVOKED.

Follow my logic here. So if the NPD can hold a liquor licensee responsible for his employees, how is it that the citizens or city council can not hold a Chief of Police responsible for his employees.

It seems again we have nothing but hypocrisy in our town! It seems like we have a double standard! It also seems our city officials believe silence will exonerate them.

If the Sun continues with this story and publishes the truth, they will continue the legacy of the Napergate Man.

If they have the courage to continue as they so indicated when this story is done and told, I believe the citizens will vote everyone in office out except for Mayor Pradel. Dick Furstenau and Darlene Senger who were not part of the conspiracy against the Napergate Man. Some establishment council members were involved either directly or indirectly or culpable for looking the other way.

How could the citizens keep a bunch of council members who do not even reprimand a Police Chief, let alone censure him, for at least a minimum of "ONLY" losing control of his police force as this one Police Officer wants us to believe???

And since we are also talking about Furstenau on this thread.....

Is it fair that Fursteanu be censured for scolding a few employees loudly while Chief Dial gets a complete pass after his department was accused by the IABTF Liquor Lobby first of a conspiracy which was later affirmed by numerous court decisions including the second highest courts in our land!

Something just does not smell right! It smells terrible...very terrible!

JR,

I believe both Jenny and the Napervillian both misinterpreted that quote of "let sleeping dogs lie" as stated. It is an idiom as you correctly noted. I believe they erroneously both thought he was referring to the Napergate Man as a dog.

But it just seems like there is some irony here that you may have missed. The "sleeping dog he wanted to lie down" to me was not the Napergate Court Case! It was the "cover-up" of the Napergate Fiasco that Councilman Siddall really wanted to remain "lying like a sleeping dog."

I just think that there was hidden meaning in that phrase that all 3 of you missed. That is my take on the situation and I know I could also be wrong!

Bloggers,
No one had the right answer and I can tell you guys gave up since you are no longer guessing. So I am going to give you the hint that I believe led me to yet another REVERSAL by the Napergate Man!.

Here is the section in Napergate VII that tipped me off..

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

NAPERGATE VII......(dated August 20, 1993 in the Naperville Sun * Page 20A)

WE'RE BACK...........(sub-title)

If you missed Napergate V & VI, you can obtain your FREE copies at Extra Value Liquors. As a point of clarification we would like to note that in our ads that blasted the city of Naperville, we were not referring to residents, council members, or city employees who had nothing to do with our "railroading." We were specifically referring to the mayor and those in his administration who have harassed and discriminated against Extra Value Liquors. Wanting a change in government does not mean you don't like your city. In fact, Extra Value Liquors and our 2000 plus supporters love and care about the city of Naperville very much.

In a recent survey conducted by The Affirmative Action Advisory Council of AT@T Bell Laboratories in Naperville, the police were ranked #1 as the worst violators of civil rights. In summary, this report stated "THE POLICE WERE REPORTED TO BE THE SINGLE GREATEST SOURCE OF HARASSMENT FROM THE PEOPLE RESPONDING TO THE SURVEY." In recent weeks a McDonalds manager has come forward and stated that the Naperville police continually harass and discriminate against him. Let's not forget about the lady who wrote to the SUN and stated that after she complained to the police about police harassment she was told "young lady, you are messing with the big boys."

If the city officials love Naperville and are concerned about its reputation, why have they not taken the appropriate corrective measures to end these violations of civil rights? Isn't it interesting that councilman J. Glenn Schneider is introducing an ordinance that violates civil rights rather than one that protects civil rights?

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

The hint that tipped me off to yet another REVERSAL by the Napergate Man is contained in this section of his Napergate VII ad. I did much research to verify this REVERSAL in the last few weeks including speaking to some old time residents of the town. If anyone can shed some more light or has some additional knowledge please feel free to share it before I publish my findings!

In the meantime let me see if anyone can guess with this HINT!!!

Ameena...

PS. Regarding the contents of these Napergate ads, everything had to be verified by the Naperville Sun for accuracy and checked for libel and slander before publication. Publishing in a print newspaper apparently has a much higher standard or threshold than blogging on a thread! I do not know why that is the case or was the case in the past! Maybe the host or moderator know why the standard for accuracy and libel is much higher in a PRINT EDITION OF A NEWSPAPER as opposed to BLOGGING ON A THREAD OF A NEWSPAPER. It seems like that standard should be the same to me!

Note from Ted, host:

Ameena,

You're very sharp. Yes, indeed, all those Napergate ads had to be vetted by company attorneys. It caused havoc with deadlines back in the day. I wish I had time to answer your question in depth about the differences between print and online, because there's a great deal of debate about that among journalists, media company executives, attorneys and anyone else with an interest in the ever-changing field of new media and online content. There are many good resources out there to research, such as the Poynter Institute or the Columbia Journalism Review. Basically, it's a hot topic of debate, Internet blogs are unchartered waters largely untested as yet in the courts, whereas there are many libel cases that serve as precedents when determining print content. That's about all I can say for now.

Made a mistake with this statement of mine:

"If they have the courage to continue as they so indicated when this story is done and told, I believe the citizens will vote everyone in office out except for Mayor Pradel. Dick Furstenau and Darlene Senger who were not part of the conspiracy against the Napergate Man."

My wife informs me that Council Member Douglas Krause has always been a supporter to the Napergate Man and treated him fairly. And also not part of any conspiracy! In fact he was one of the only 2 council members to vote to stop the funds before it reached the Appellant levels. In addition, some new council members may have nothing to do with Napergate so my reference was to council members of the times. It seems though many of the council members from the Napergate Era are still on the council.

Host Ted, Moderator Jim and Ameena,
I have always been curious about the difference in libel standards between print and on-line blogging.

When I was on Greta wire bloggin about the Peterson Case, your message was posted within literally a second or two. It seems like a computer only checked the post for inappropriate obscence language. But people told so many lies and no one cared. In my opinion, the threads there had no credibility. They were sickening! It was like a huge chat room with kids talking.

On the Sun threads everyone seems more credible but strongly opinionated. People can actually write coherently. I always thought the delaying by the Sun of posting was to eliminate both blatant lies that the host knew of and of course obscene language.

Just out of curiosity, Host or Moderator, if you know someone is telling a blatant lie with 100% certainty, do you still publish the post. It is obvious you don't publish obscene language and I commend you for that.

It seems the Napergate ad information does not have to be checked for accuracy or libel since it already went thru a very rigorous test before publication at the time. I like having high standards like that before publication!

By the way, I like your method of bloggin better than Greta's.
Her site got so bad, people were discussing what they had for breakfast and how many loads of laudry they did. Kid you not! I have never been back to check that site.
This Napergate thread is the most intellectual thread I have ever seen. It speaks highly of Napervillians and their newspaper!

I think Ted, Jim and I had a discussion on bloggin on a thread titled "Road Warriors." The thread was so dead we ended up discussing bloggin and Gretawire compared to Sun.

Anyway, I can see you guys finally started pickin some very interesting and hot topics like Napergate that seem to be instant winners. You guys have come a long way since November with your picks of dud topics such as Road Warriors! Of course, you may recall, I saved that thread from disaster by changing the topic on my own...lol..

Keep up the good work!

Note from Ted, host:

Maryann--Thanks, it's great having you join in. Actually we've rejected or unpublished several comments because of content (not profanity) but the vast majority are published. We've said in several places we don't vouch for the accuracy of statements made, but when we see something is blatantly false or it's brought to our attention we unpublish it. It's usually not an issue because like you said most people are expressing opinions most of the time, not making statements of fact.

I don't see any hint in your latest blog, Ameena!

I just can't imagine that the Napergate Man would reverse the "The Affirmative Action Advisory Council of AT@T Bell Laboratories in Naperville, that states police were ranked #1 as the worst violators of civil rights.

I understood he was pro civil rights! There was nothing else there I noticed!

Can you provide any more tips!

Posted by: Scott | January 24, 2008 09:52 AM

I agree with your above post.

Another example would be if a college football coach had so many undisciplined players causing havoc in town, he would be terminated let alone censured or reprimanded.

In the Duke Lacrosse Case, I recall the coach was terminated and the entire team wrongfully suspended for a year despite the fact it turned out all the players were innocent.

Here we have organizational and court rulings claiming the Napergate Man received unequal treatment and no repercussions to the Chief or a single officer after a ruling. In the Duke case there was a suspension and determination with much less proof...albeit they were wrong in that case as they jumped the gun way to early and should have waited for the legal matters to conclude!

I agree with the blogger that said Internal Affairs of the NPD should stand for Internal Cover-Up!

Does the Naperville Sun know of any Internal Affairs Investigations of rogue cops in Naperville? Probably not since cover-ups are top secret and it takes unique individuals like the Napergate Man to puncture a leak in them. Don't know how he seemed to be everywhere at the same time figuring everything out all the time!?!?!?

Ameena,

I think the hint is in this quote,

"We were specifically referring to the mayor and those in his administration who have harassed and discriminated against Extra Value Liquors."

He must have reversed the harassment of his store due to the disclosures in his Napergate 7 ad of alleged discrmination by the Naperville Police Dept. at the time.

Scott and James,
You both make very much sense to me. I just got home from the corporate world. A top executive was terminated last week at our company because he lost control of his department.

It just seems to me like police departments are the only organiziations in the world that don't believe in disciplining their own for trangressions towards others(civilians).

It is hard to fathom that no civilian in Naperivlle has ever been abused by a police officer. The NPD could regain some credibility by issuing its Internal Affairs Reports or Conclusions. Has the Naperville Sun ever made a request for such reports and been denied?

Kind of unusual that a guy like the Napergate Man can establish so much credibility while the Chief loses his due to non-response or inaction! Usually non-response by a Police Chief is a tell tale sign something is awfully wrong in that department.

I do think there is some connection between these 2 cases. Before the Napergate Case was revisited, I completley doubted Furstenau's story. Now that I have seen what the NPD is capable of, from Ameena's posting of Appellant Court Rulings and former Napergate ads, I am suddenly wondering if the NPD tried to frame Furtenau for his political views. It seems rather factual certain city officials did try to muzzle the Napergate Man for his political views and activities but it apparently backfired in that case in a unique way.

Unfortunatley, we learned from the Napergate Case, that these types of cases take an average of 5 years to go thru our snail pace judicial system before they unravel. I think that is a travesty of justice in itself. Our judicial system should be able to proceed much faster and at much less cost! How many people have 200k like the Napergate Man to actually defend themselves? So I guess it is not uncommon to plead guilty even though you are innocent in our soceity.

I find it ironic that the Napergate Man agreed to plead guilty in this case and pay a $1500 fine but the city officials refused the plea, cost the taxpayers millions of dollars fighting the Napergate Man, and got eggs on their faces in the process when he was found "just not guilty" but actually INNOCENT of all charges! I think that is outrageous! I hope others caught that blog or the section of his ad where he agrees to plead guilty!

It is obvious in this case he was willing to plead guilty not because he was guilty, but to save $200,000 and probably have a life instead of no life for the 5 year period these cases take to unravel.

And finally I have to agree with the many bloggers, who stated that Naperville Sun article on Napergate was very weak. It quoted the uncredible instead of the credible! Makes no sense to me that the Sun reporter did not know who was credible after all these court rulings! I am assuming she is a relatively young reporter with little experience in seeking the hard truth!

Ameena,
Thanks for clarifying your question! I do understand your question finally but I don't see any hints in that sub-section of the Napergate VII ad.

How about one more tip! I am sure you are at the library so we will probably have to wait till tomorrow to hear from you!

Thanks!
Jenny

Has anyone noticed that Joe, T.B., Southwest Taxpayer and the many others who are always defending City Hall with their bow and arrows have not appeared on this thread.

It just seems obvious they want to remain on the sidelines until this case disappears off the Main Page!

I think they were not aware of this case and felt the City and its Police Dept. could do no wrong.

The formula for the "establishment" has always been if we keep quiet on disatrous issues, they will boil over.

I think they thought the Napergate Case boiled over a decade ago.
I am sure City Officials are shocked the Naperville Sun decided to suddenly revisit the case.

It seems their propoganda does not work when you have so many court rulings such as in the Napergate Case that provide unanimous and crystal clear decisions. Their propaganda only works in the Furstenau Case where the decisons are pending and they can say what they want and get away with it!

I AM SORRY BUT I DON'T BUY THE POLICE OFFICER'S DEFENSE OF CHIEF DIAL DUE TO LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE NAPERGATE CONSPIRACY!

IN HIS POSITION ONE TAKES RESPONSIBLITY AND DOES NOT CLAIM IGNORANCE. THAT IS JUST A PURE EXCUSE FOR POSSIBLE INCOMPETENCE!

I believe that the correlation between the Napergate Case and the Fustenau Case is a positive one for Furstenau.

The Fustenau case is one of "he said she said." The reason I say that is the Judge never ruled whether Furstenau touched or did not touch. He simply said there was no evidence he touched or hit the officer. Being ruled not guilty is not the same as being innocent!

In the end since the DF case is a "he said she said case," the credibility of the parties becomes the determining criteria for who is to be beleived by the Judge and Jury!

By introducing this case in the media and court system, they would be able to shatter the city's credibility and in particular the NPD's credibility.

I am surprised Taxpayer isn't jumping on this case to enhance the credibility of his best friend, DF, by pointing out the lack of credibilty the city and police acquired from the Napergate Case.

It is unfortunate that Taxpayer was stuck in such a rut defending DF and could not come up with an alterior defense of any sorts? I see another strong defense of the Furstenau case right on this thread.

Posted by: Martha | January 24, 2008 09:36 PM

I second your motion Cindy.....

The puck has to stop at the Chief of Police.....it just can not continue sliding to nowhere!

Melissa,
I did notice Joe, T.B., Southwest Taxpayer and other city supporters missing. Slicing and dicing does not work with these Napergatians. They are too well educated for Joe to attempt to do a semantics job on them. He would fail....so I have to assume he feels more comfortable staying away and hibernating to less intellectually stimulating and demanding threads.

I suspect the Napergate Man taught them the meaning of credibility and I notice they strive to maintain it by being very cautious in what they say and only saying it if they can back it up.

Rachael stated,

"I think the hint is in this quote,

"We were specifically referring to the mayor and those in his administration who have harassed and discriminated against Extra Value Liquors."

He must have reversed the harassment of his store due to the disclosures in his Napergate 7 ad of alleged discrmination by the Naperville Police Dept. at the time."

This is the only thing I can think Ameena may be talking about regarding this other suspense reversal.

__________________________________________________________________

Police Officer and Mrs. of the Police Officer,

I would like to hear more from both of you regarding your feelings of what you are reading. It seems like most bloggers are young and do not have 1st hand information.

I would like to hear more especially from Mrs. of the Police Officer becasue I would still like to hear your opinion based on what you are reading and learning despite having no first hand knowledge.

Your opinion has always put a better perspective on situations. In particular I would like to hear your opinion on what Police Officer wrote as it was interesting but not very logical as far as where responsibilty should fall.

It seems like since many bloggers and the host verified these Napergate ads were vetted pretty good for accuracy by attorneys from both sides and editors from the Sun, it would seem you would be commenting on something factual even if you do not have 1st hand knowledge like most of the rest of us. Your opinion is valued and it seems without it, we have no balance on this thread and really almost no debate.

I know you will be outnumbered but I have every confidence you can handle it and I really like many others would like to hear your level headed and opposing opinions!

Ameena,
I guess McFarland and I touched on another REVERSAL you had not thought about. Glad we could help!

However, I am very interested in hearing about this mysterious 10th REVERSAL. I just can't figure it out for the life of me. I will admit the suspense and curiosity is killing me.

You promised you would tell us in 24 hours. I think it has been over 48 hours. Please don't forget us! Thanks and keep up your great investigative reporting!

Sorry bloggers but I was out of town for a few days or I could have shed some light on Ameena's search of yet another "REVERSAL." I think the clue was in the sub-heading "WE"RE BACK." One need only ask "WHY WAS HE GONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!"

############################################################################################################################################

The hint that tipped me off to yet another REVERSAL by the Napergate Man is contained in this section of his Napergate VII ad. I did much research to verify this REVERSAL in the last few weeks including speaking to some old time residents of the town. If anyone can shed some more light or has some additional knowledge please feel free to share it before I publish my findings!
Posted by: Ameena | January 24, 2008 12:16 PM

############################################################################################################################################

Here is what I know from being one of the Napergatians who actually worked with the Napergate Man when Napergate was still a liquor battle before it transformed into a development battle. But before I make my comments, I want to emphasize the ownership of the Naperville Sun today is not the same ownership of the Naperville Sun in the Napergate Era. The current ownership is liberal, progressive and unbiased. The former ownership was very conservative, reactionary, and biased. Just as the current Mayor was not involved in Napergate, the new ownership of the Naperville Sun was not involved in Napergate. I also disagree with all the bloggers who have said the Sunday article was titled against the Napergate Man. It was a very fair and unbiased story. I think the unjustifed allegations against the new Naperville Sun are coming from the fact that so much was left out. But how can a newspaper cover 100 full page ads with no pics that are one and a half times the size of the current page size, with a one page article that had a large picture. My perception is because it did not tell the full story of the Napergate Man, bloggers have wrongfully accused the Naperville Sun of being biased. The word Napergate was slashed on the front page of the Naperville Sun for all to see. My opinion is that the Napergate Sun was actually biased towards the Napergate Man and did an excellent job with the spectacular front page and wrote a very nice article

Let me get back to the answering Ameena's question. Unlike the new generation of, I assume, young bloggers, I don't have to guess. I know the answer! I believe Ameena has no first hand knowledge of Napergate but her investigative reporting which has been superb has brought her to a point where she is 90% sure but not 100% of this "REVERSAL" and thus is looking for some final clues or hints from the readers before she publishes her findings. Let me see if I can help her.

HERE ARE THE ACTUAL FACTS AS THEY OCCURRED BASED ON MY FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE:

1. The Napergate Man published many non-Napergate political ads and 4 Napergate ads before city officials reached a point of INTOLERANCE! You could say they had enough of the TRUTH being told about them!

2. When the Napergate Man took his Napergate V to be published, the Naperville Sun rejected it and told him his Napergate ads are no longer welcome! His ads were always verified for accuracy both by his attorneys and Sun Editors and attorneys as has been reported by Ameena and others. They were always checked for libel and even sent for an additional check to Copley Headquarters in California(old owner of the Sun) for yet another review for libel, slander and verification of substance and facts.

3. When he pressed the Naperville Sun staff for a reason of the termination of his advertising rights in the newspaper of which he had advertised in for over a dozen years, they finally admitted to him that City Officials had pressured them to no longer publish his Napergate ads. "Liquor ads are welcome, but no more Napergate ads" he was told by Sun Staff. He tried to convince them to reverse their decision but they adamantly refused after very long negotiations.

4. The Napergate Man has a good friend and customer named Ray Kinney who owned a large printing press on the North side of town somewhere. Ray Kinney was sympathetic to the plight of the Napergate Man and agreed to quickly print 20,000 copies for him that would be the same size of his Sun ads, have the same layout and be on nice thick paper. Since he had already laid out and written Napergate V to be published in the Sun, this was a quick production. I believe Mr. Kinney gave him an excellent price of 1 cent a page. At most 2 cents! It is difficult to recall but it was no more than a penny or two per copy due the huge production. His ads always came out on Wednesday! Ray Kinney was able to have the 20,000 copies ready in time and Napergate Man and his numerous friends distributed the ad city wide hand to hand that Wednesday instead of thru the Sun. At the time I believe his base of supporters was only 1000 and had not reached the 3500 it later reached.

5. The biggest focus point for distribution was at City Hall. I joined him with about 20 other Napergatians and we distributed about 500-1000 copies to City Hall employees and residents who came to pay bills such as electric and water or attend other matters. It did not take long for the police to kick the Napergate Man and his supporters out of City Hall. The Napergate Man politely told the police, City Hall was a public building owned by the taxpayers and he had a right to distribute his ad. The police disagreed with him and asked him and his supporters to leave and we left. There was no pushing or shoving. The Napergate Man simply complied and took his supporters to other areas of town for hand to hand distribution. I believe we distributed all the copies but a 1000 of the 20,000 production. Those were given out at his store to his customers!

6. I did find my copy of Napergate V. If Ameena would like a copy of it I can scan it and e-mail it to her. All she needs to do is provide her e-mail address in a post. It will never be found in the library as it was never published in the Naperville Sun!

7. I have not found my copy of Napergate VI yet. However I recall, that one strictly blasted the old Naperville Sun for succumbing to the pressure of City Officials.
Also 20,000 copies were made and also distributed all over Naperville but not City Hall because the Napergate Man was told he would be arrested if he attempted to distribute his ad at City Hall again.

8. The Napergate Man with this tactic was really able to embarrass the old Naperville Sun. He accused them of censorship! He accused them of bias! He accused them of catering to city officials. He accused them of being afraid of city officials. He accused them of violating his 1st Amendment Right of Free Speech! This was all in that Napergate VI ad that came after the prior Napergate V ad that Sun Officials refused to publish due to extreme pressure from City Hall.

9. I guess you all know what happened by now. Mr. Napergate got yet another REVERSAL. The Naperville Sun REVERSED itself as he was able to apply much more pressure than city officials and he was of course on higher ground especially with the residents supporting him in masses. While I am not sure and have no direct evidence, I believe some civil rights organizations and attorneys also came to his defense.!

10. In summary the Napergate Man was a uniquely creative and talented individual, highly motivated and could come up with a plan to overcome each or any obstacle in his path.

############################################################################################################################################

It does not surprise me to read all the nice comments about the Napergate Man. I was a regular customer at his store and even lived in the same apartment complex at Olives Trees for about a decade. Besides being very politically and legally savvy, he was a very nice man. He did not own a white dog when I knew him. At those times, he would have had no time to be walking a white dog. I believe in retirement he has found some time as reported by the Huntington Estates Lady.

He definitely left a legacy in Naperville. As you can see he fought for free speech and free press. Now we have both! While the old Naperville Sun did not change its conservative ways, apparently after that historic Napergate VI hands to hands ad, they decided that the Napergate Man was not someone you want to mess with and they published all his ads until he decided to retire on his own terms while on top.

I have not seen or talked to the Napergate Man in over 10 years. I do not know why he retired. But if you look closely at the front page of the Naperville Sun on Sunday, Jan. 20th, 2008 and read the first sentence of his picture ad in Napergate XXXV(35), you can see he was aching to retire Napergate at that moment. However, he proceeded into 9 overtime sessions reaching Napergate XLIV(44), before he finally defeated the Brestal Law Firm. That first sentence reads:

"EVERYTIME AN ATTEMPT IS MADE TO RETIRE NAPERGATE TO THE MOTHBALLS, CERTAIN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS NEVER FAIL TO PULL A STUNT ON THEIR CONSTITUENTS."

When he felt he had exposed all the stunts of City Officials and the Brestal Law Firm, and stopped them in their tracks, he published his final ad, Napergate XLIV, and I presume retired. Brestal did finally back off! Everytime I pass by South West Gate on 75th and Naper Blvd., I remember the Napergate Man. That was his final Major Battle in his 20 year WAR. Brestal was attempting to obtain zoning to build a high density office building on that parcel combined with retail commercial and he somehow stopped him. Nine years later, Brestal has not yet returned! The land remains vacant! That should tell you something about the influence the Napergate Man had on this town before he finally retired.

Melissa,

I have been reading the postings on this blog and, as expected, the review of the facts confirm to me that there are no real parallels between the Napergate Man's story and the Furstenau case. I knew that all along. It seems many bloggers, like James, don't know how to put the Napergate details in perspective. As we know, four of our current City Council members were endorsed by the Napergate Man, and three others have only been members of the City Council for a few years (Wehrli, Miller, and Fieseler). How does he come up with claiming everybody except Furstenau and Senger will be voted out of office because of the Napergate facts? His wife made him post a correction. The Napergate story took place in the 80's and 90's in the last CENTURY. This is the 21st century.

I was very aware of this case. I have lived in Naperville for 11 years, and I have lived and worked in the area since the early 1980s. I SAW the ads in the Sun as they actually appeared.

I am realistic about it. I am well aware there are some bad cops in the world, and there are some bad politicians who hold elected office in respected communities like ours.

In my last post I referred to a quote incorrectly as James post. The quote was actually from Scott. Sorry James.
Posted by: Scott | January 24, 2008 09:52 AM:
"If they have the courage to continue as they so indicated when this story is done and told, I believe the citizens will vote everyone in office out except for Mayor Pradel. Dick Furstenau and Darlene Senger who were not part of the conspiracy against the Napergate Man. Some establishment council members were involved either directly or indirectly or culpable for looking the other way."

To Barry Quigley: Where is CONPA located at? Rt59 & Montgomery Rd in Naperville?

Randy,
Thanks for publishing that long post. It was truly informative!
I think you not only solved the pending mystery but pretty much saved Ameena from having to publish her findings. I think she will be pleasantly delighted when she sees your post. First hand knowledge will always win out over investigative reporting. Good job!

Randy,
Thanks for filling in all the blanks for me! I only had 80% of the facts so I was reluctant to publish.

Yes, you are the only one with the right answer! I thought the hint of "We're Back" was very obvious but I guess not as obvious as I assumed if you are not familiar with the unusual and unique story of the Napergate Man.

I would love a copy of Napergate V as the librarian confirmed that and Napergate VI do not exist in her archives. I hope you find Napergate VI and also send me a copy. That would give us a complete record of at least all 44 Napergate ads. His non-Napergate Ads are all over the place and much more difficult to track unless one is willing to go thru 3650 Naperville Suns covering an entire decade!

My e-mail address is Ameeenaa@yahoo.com and I look forward to receiving the ad you saved. Don't forget the extra e and extra a in my e-mail address or I will not get it. Thanks for all your help with your first hand account. It confirms all my research and interviews the last month! I wish you would have spoken up earlier...you could have saved me a lot of time but late is better than never!
Thanks again!

Ameena...

PS. Will write more later about my findings!

Southwest Naperville Taxpayer,

If you want to be technical and criticise a new blogger who made a mistake and corrected himself, I can also be technical.

Many of the Napergate ads were written in 2000 and 2001. That is the 21st century! So his ads were written in 2 centuries and not so old as you would like one to believe.

You would have been wiser to read Randy's post and learn something new instead of blog about technicalites. As you know that is what destroyed Joe's credibiity and that is why he remains in hiding.

I guess you can say he retired just like the Napergate Man. But he retired on the bottom while the Napergate Man retired on top!
That is a little bit of a difference, Mr. Century Man or Ms. Century Woman before you hit me on a gender technicality. It is difficult to address people who do not reveal their gender identity. They may as well be anonymous and we can address them as "it."

Thanks for your very detailed post,Randy! I was aware that this took place as I had those Napergate ads left inside my screen door.

However, I did not know all the details you provided.

I am a little shocked that the old ownership of the Naperville Sun would be in cohoots with City Officials to that level to silence the opposition.

It does not surprise me, though! I am glad we have new ownership of the Naperville Sun that gives us freedom of expression. The old Naperville Sun would have never given us an avenue like blogging to express our opinions. If they did, they would only publish pro city blogs as they did in their newsprint with only pro city letters to the editor published during the Napergate Era.

I think a lot of hostility from bloggers towards the Sun is due to old actions of the Naperville Sun. Since many residents cancelled their subscriptions they are probably not aware that there has been a change of ownership and think the Naperville Sun is still controlled by the "establishment" in town.

I don't recall the Sun informing its readers of new ownership. When a new retailer take over an old store he always puts a sign on the window stating, "New Ownership." The Naperville Sun should do something similar and I believe it subscribers will return back to the peak level of the Napergate days and probably much higher due to the significant increase in population.

Randy,

That was a remarkable in depth report. You have an awesome memory. Now we finally know what was wrong with the old Naperville Sun. I am just so glad they have new leaderhship. They seem to have much better talent under the new ownership. I always thought something was wrong with the "old" Naperville Sun!

Moderator Jim and Host Ted are fabulous guys! They have courage and let the bloggers tell it as it is. It probably took a little courage to post that documentary by Randy, but it shows how brave and unbiased they are. I salute them!

I think we are well on our way to having a great newspaper in our town. We deserve one after all the censorhip the old Sun was performing. It is sad how they hid so many city improprieties from the residents in those older days. No wonder our city officials were converting so much residential property to commercial for their buddies and enriching each other. No one was watching their actions! The local newspaper ignored its watchdog duty causing our city officials to go rampant for decades until the Napergate Man finally uncovered the conspiracy and hopefully stopped it permanently.

Finally anyone who claims this Napergate thread does not have relevance to current times is just trying to maintain the cover-ups of the old times. Napergate reminds us what are city officials are capable of doing and the importance of keeping them under our watchful eyes at all times with no exceptions!

marybreth,

My comments were not to criticize a technicality by a new blogger. I just didn't agree with the blogger's comments based on the known facts of the matter. Unfortunately, some readers might be viewing the Napergate Man's trials and tribulations as current events, especially when the blogger implies that members of our current city government were responsible for the fiasco, and will be voted out of office because of it.

You are right, as we all know, the Napergate guy ran ads in 2000, 2001. To correct another "technicality" on MY previous post, I meant to write that we now have three new city councilmen who have been elected to City Council "within" the past few years. I think we can agree these councilmen were NOT directly or indirectly responsible for the Napergate Man's problems with the city in the 80's and 90's, or even 2000 and 2001. Any evidence to the contrary?

I read Randy's blog, as usual, and found it very informative. Many posts by other bloggers are informative too, including many of Joe's and T.B's posts in the past! Ameena is doing great at the library, but I guess she still hasn't figured out how to bring up the "Street View" of Chicago Avenue on Googlemaps.com yet. You can almost look right in the Lantern window! OK, let the space aliens figure it out. That little "Steet View" man on Googlemaps actually looks like a space alien, doesn't he? Or I should say "it" looks like a space alien. Seriously, I enjoy reading the results of all the research, and the opinions of others... agree or disagree.

By the way, my gender is of no consequence to your ability to address me. You can always call me Century Person, Southwest, SW Taxpayer, SNT, SWT, or SWNT. Or possibly "it", as you suggest. Doesn't this story seem to parallel the story of the Googlemaps "Street View" alien? All right, maybe not.

After reading Randy's dynamic remembrance of history, I see no parrallel between the Napergate Man and Furstenau.

In the case of the Napergate Man he was abused by city officials and Naperville Police. In the case of Furstenau he was abusing city officials and the Naperville Police.

I commend the new Naperville Sun for allowing us to revisit this remarkable underdog battling on many fronts. It is unfortunate that the old Naperville Sun did not record history as it was occurring. But thanks to people like Randy with long memories, it appears history can still be recorded.

"By introducing this case in the media and court system, they would be able to shatter the city's credibility and in particular the NPD's credibility."

Martha,
"If" the Napergate Case was introduced in court proceedings related to the Furstenau Case, it would most likely shatter the city's credibility. But I believe, it is for that reason, a Federal Judge would never allow the introduction of the Napergate Case or even mention of it. In addition, the 400,000 dollars designated by the city for outside attorneys is partially related to keeping a handle on such issues. I also can further assure you the City Attorneys will ask each prospective juror if they ever heard of the Napergate Man. If the jurist says yes, there will be an attempt to disqualify him or her immediately.

Eric Zorn of the Chicago Tribune had written some favorable columns about the Napergate Man. Plus he is known nationally for his responsible drinking campaign. So the pool of jurors could easily contain jurists from outside Naperville, who know the Napergate Man and I believe all those who simply know about him, will be eliminated as prospective jurors. Otherwise the case will be highly prejudicial against the City of Naperville and the city would not get a fair trial. The purpose of the judicial system is to give both parties a fair trial without any prejudice from previous cases.

As far as the Furstenau supporters, using the Napergate Case to shatter the city and police's credibility in the media, that is obviously permissible and I see it occurring right on these blogs daily by the new breed of citizen's journalists as the host refers to them.

However the strength of these blogs is tied to the print edition of the Naperville Sun. One should note the exponential increase in blogging on the Napergate Man from the first thread a month ago to the second thread of last week. I believe it is related to the article and the comment on the front page regarding, "join us in the discussion on napersun.com." As blogging grows exponentially, bloggers may one day have the effect to influence events as the Napergate Man did mostly thru the print edition of the Sun. That day may be 10 or 20 years away! It also may never happen and we could suddenly see a resurgence in print media. As noted by the host, there has been a resurgence in the last year of 1000 new subcribers to the Sun and I expect that resurgence to continue with powerful editions like the Sunday Sun about "Revisiting the Napergate Man." The topic of Napergate was notorious for selling newspapers in the past and I believe will sell newspapers in the future. Napergate encompasses much more than the Napergate Man and the movement he started. It is about current problems we still have in this town, as well as past problems that appear to have been resolved but not completley.

PS. I also enjoyed reading Randy's post about the battle between the "old" Naperville Sun and the Napergate Man.
That story could also be another sell out of the Sunday edition as may have occurred with the first article on the Napergate Man. It is really a fascinating story that was never told before and should be told to the 16,200 subscribers of the "new" Naperville Sun and not be limited to the few hundred bloggers. This topic has been ciruculating in the grapevine for over a decade and should be vetted out and put to rest!

Host here, just want to say thanks to Randy and others for the kind words recently. Just doing our jobs. Napergate leaves me with mixed emotions. I was a powerless reporter 10 years ago when Napergate was winding down, but part of that "old" Sun culture nonetheless--I should have done more to investigate city hall etc. back then. The criticism of the old Sun being soft is well-deserved. I'm learning stuff now about Napergate that I didn't even know back then, and like a lot of others I really enjoy this forum and appreciate everyone who brings something to the table. As editors now I can tell you Jim and I constantly push our young reporters to dig deeper and to think creatively about what's going on around town. It's a rewarding job and it's a challenge getting information sometimes but that's no excuse, it was a lot harder for Basim Esmail in the days before the Internet and he managed OK. Just want to add there's an endless amount of space to talk about Napergate here on the Internet but our print edition has got to be more concerned with the here and now. It would take many pages in print to do justice to a story like Napergate.

I just had my morning coffee and read that phenomenal Randy documentary!

This Napergate Man really was a unique individual to be able to devise a plan to get his Napergate V published that quickly and distributed so widely in such a short time.

The old Naperville Sun deliberately avoided covering him for some reason. Probably due to establishment pressure! I saw a few old articles posted recently by the host or moderator on Spring Green and took note that his name or title of Napergate Man was conveniently left out of all the articles. It just seemed they did not want to give him credit.

However, when you study all these battles that he won, be it ATT, his liquor proceedings, city council reversals, Spring Green, SW GATE, the Naperville Sun battle, or endorsees he got elected repeatedly, etc. the only common denominator in all these battles was the Napergate Man! Just an observation indicating he was the real force behind all this but yet deliberately ignored by the old Sun!

Just further testament to the fact that City Officials were pressuring the Naperville Sun in the Napergate Age(as Randy showed) and the Sun simply could not shake loose of their grip. It appears they finally have shaken loose and I am so thankful for that!

PS. Just an after thought....Could the reason the old Naperville Sun put itself up for sale was to shake loose from the tight grip of the Establishment?

I must say I was completely lost.........

Ameena sure knows how to dig and ask the right questions...

I guess only one person had the right answer but boy did he have the answer. You could say even the best investigative reporter needs a break once in a while like the one Randy provided. I am sure many others in town knew the answer but they must be old timers not use to bloggin yet.

Never thought anyone could have a memory like Randy's 15 years later. I can barely remember what I had for dinner the last time I went out.

I just want to thank Randy for answering Ameena's Napergate riddle in such an informative and no nonsense way! Thank you so much, Randy!!!

Randy,
Your essay was so enlightening. I did not work with the Napergate Man during the liquor proceedings as you did but I worked closely with him during Spring Green.

He was the undisputed leader, organizer, rallier, ad provider, you name it and he was it.

But for some odd reason when the old Naperville Sun did articles they shied away from giving him credit. They would give the credit to his assisstants and totally ignore him.

It just seems the reporters at the time were not digging deep enough or simply told to ignore the Napergate Man. It seemed kind of silly since his Napergate ads stuck out in the Naperville Sun like a sore thumb. That was one AD you simply could not miss in those days. It was an AD like no other AD! Like many residents I loved walking down my driveway Wednesday morning to see what the latest scoop he dug up was. I honestly could not wait and wanted to read the latest Napergate ad first, then have my coffee, and finally read the rest of the newspaper in that sequence. His ads were more addicting than the best soap opera imaginable! Much more than Desperate Housewives is these days to many of us housewives..lol.!!!

Every ad had new scoops and it seems he had so much news he just could not print it all. He never ran out of news that you could not find anywhere else!

******************************************************************

Host Ted,
I believe your comments are very sincere! If you were not the boss than no one can blame you. I am sure you were misguided a bit by your superiors at the time.

I was very impresseed with your comment that you are asking your young reporters to dig deeper and think creatively as to what is going on in town. I think if you push them a little harder they will and can get the job done. Give Ms. Koci another shot at the Napergate story. I bet she will surprise you the second time around. She deserves time to get more familiar with a very complicated and decades long story!

To the best of my knowledge, the Napergate Man was not a trained reporter or ever taken one class in journalism. I think it was simply determination to get the facts and to get to the bottom of a story.

If he can do it, all your reporters can do it. It is just a matter of having the will power and desire to do it...to dig a little deeper....

Most importantly, thanks for providing this forum as it allows us all to vent about the past. Your admittance that you should have done more to investigate City Hall speaks volumes to me about your character and sincerity. You seem like a very humble and down to earth person and a great Editor to lead the Sun into modern times.

In fairness to you, as you said you were a powerless reporter at the time. Now that you are in charge, you are making a big difference that all of us Naperville residents really appreciate. Keep up the great work and continue bloggin with us! Would love to hear more from you on these blogs.

Thank you so much host!

Naperville Lawyer,
Thanks for keeping us lay people on top of the legal matters.
As a lay person I would also think it would be very prejudicial to admit the Napergate Case as some kind of foundational evidence in the Furstenau Case.

Any jury that would have any knowledge of the Napergate Case would come back with a verdict against the City and Police in less than one can blink of an eye!

I am sure Furstenau's lawyers know that and they would love to have a few Napergatians or even simply Napervillians on the jury.

I also want to mention that Randy's long essay was the best one I have read since the Sun established blogging. I guess it shows you the awesome power of an eyewitness when you can find one which is usually very rare!!! His memory, facts and details seem impeccable and very believable.

Do you know Mr. Naperville Lawyer or Moderator/Host if the City Police had a right to stop the Napergate Man and his supporters from distributing their Napergate ads at City Hall, which is taxpayer and resident owned? Would like to hear from both if possible? Sometimes residents really don't know their rights unless newspapers inform them of their rights. Not everyone has a lawyer or can afford to call a lawyer these days!

Bloggers,
I did get my Napergate V copy e-mailed to me by Randy this cold morning. Many thanks to Randy for getting me a copy and of course for his detailed story which I would have never expected in a million years. I promise to share part of Napergate V with you in the future. But let me give you the subheadings of that ad I received less than an hour ago...yes, it is the internet age! We can move very fast!

NAPERGATE V

A TALE OF TWO CITIES-PART II

CITY OFFICIALS "FAILING"

QUICKSAND "SYNDROME"

TAXPAYER ALERT

Imagine that ad being distributed right inside of City Hall with the sub-heading of CITY OFFICIALS "FAILING" being given to each city employee. It is not a surprise that Naperville Police were called to throw the Napergate Man and his followers out of City Hall.

Of course, I feel there is no need to reiterate with my own detailed story which would be more speculative and less factual than Randy's documentary. But briefly what got me interested is the 2 Napergate ads out of the 44 that were missing and could not be found by the librarian or me. The clue to me was the words, "We're Back" in Napergate VII. I am sure the old Naperville Sun would have never let him tell his readers what had happened but apparently he snuck in a hint! It must not have been a great hint since only Randy and I caught it. I guess I can't honestly say I caught it because the librarian tipped me off! So only Randy and the librarian to be precise!

I did run into quite a few older folks at the library who remember vividly receiving 2 Napergate ads between their screen and doors. No one had the hard core evidence Randy had, but all had suspicions that fit like a puzzle with Randy's detailed documentary. Everyone remembers those ads especially Napergate VI because it had attacked the old Naperville Sun in a horrific manner. But not one person could find the ad for me from 15 years ago. I guess people just don't save old newspapers or ads. No one liked to save INK like we save articles on our hard drive gigabytes these days! But they really read that INK and remember it. It must have left a mark on them!

Anyway if anyone did save Napergate VI, I will have uncovered all 44 Napergate ads. One to go!

Again my e-mail address is:

Ameeenaa@yahoo.com

and I would be greatly indebted to anyone who allows me to complete my research by finding this one missing ad or providing any other information on Napergate and the Napergate Man. It is an extremely fascinating story about how one man found ways to beat City Hall over and over again with utter determination and steadfastness. I have covered 10 Major Reversals and I have not even researched 25% of the case so far.

Just to give you a little tidbit that I will discuss more in the future. He felt the 3 gentlemen convicted in the murder of 11 year old Jenine Nicarico(Naperville Case) were innocent from very early on. He used his ads to help them. He even contacted Eric Zorn from the Chicago Tribune and got him interested in the case. At some point he was able to convince Mr. Zorn they were innocent and Mr. Zorn put on the massive pressure that eventually exonerated all 3 of them. The source for most of his information was former Naperville Police Chief James Teal who was the first to believe they were innocent and tipped the Napergate Man since the establishment media was convinced they were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt as they had repeated their stories so often they began to believe them. Twenty five years later the "establishment" has still not tried the real alleged killer, Brian Dugan. If they would have listened to the Police Chief and the Napergate Man 25 years ago a travesty of justice could have been avoided. It is remarkable how the Napergate Man was everywhere and light years ahead of everyone else. The story is documented in his ads and I will try to publish a section one day on these blogs.

Randy has provided Napergate V and continues to look for Napergate VI and hopefully will find it one day. At least he does not recall throwing it away as he was part of the Napergatian movement and considered those ads souvenirs of sorts.

Thanks for all who attempted to help and solve the mystery. I guess Randy won and I owe him the 10 dollar reward I put up...lol!

I wonder what kind of scoop I can dig up if I ever offered a 100 dollar reward! Maybe that final and missing Napergate VI Ad.......you never know!

Ameena...

Randy,
You floored with me with your story! That is truly remarkable!
Next time I sit to read another one of your stories I will fasten my seat belt. You are a very articulate writer with obviously a photographic memory and enormous insight. Thanks for shedding additional light on a subject it seems so many bloggers have developed a very deep thirst for!

As editors now I can tell you Jim and I constantly push our young reporters to dig deeper and to think creatively about what's going on around town. It's a rewarding job and it's a challenge getting information sometimes but that's no excuse, it was a lot harder for Basim Esmail in the days before the Internet and he managed OK.
__________________________________________________________________

Host Ted,
I enjoyed reading your comments. You seem to always say the right words. Regarding the above comment I was just curious if you asked the reporter who did the feature on the Napergat Man if she could dig a little deeper regarding the statement acting City Manager made that the entire cost of the Napergate Case was only 5-10 thousand for outside attorneys.

Many bloggers mentioned that point so it occurred to me while reading your comments. Even if the reporter may be a little timid in confronting high ranking city officials, does it not become the duty of the Editorial Staff of a newspaper to challenge such comments made by a high ranking official that are very likely false based on what we have heard from many bloggers on this post and read over the years.

I would really like to see this digging deeper put into action as opposed to words. I think what makes Basim Esmail special is he seemed to always convert his words into action! He always dug a little deeper! I disagree with your comment that he just managed OK. For not being a journalist, I felt he excelled in his investigative reporting during the Napergate Era.

Note from Ted, host:

Nikki, you're right about challenging the statement about the costs of defending Napergate. It seems incredulous, doesn't it? The reporter--an intern who has returned to college--talked to other city officials not quoted in the story and all were reluctant to talk about the topic.

Randy,
I loved you post like everyone else. I thought it was incredible. But regarding your comment on the Napergate story about the Napergate man being fair, don't you think if the reporter would have mentioned this legal battle was really about a "sting operation" the Napergate Man performed to further the liquor control acts instead of a sale to a minor, it would have been much more balanced and accurate.

I think it is these little mistakes by reporters that bring the perception that the Naperville Sun is slanted towards the city. Maybe it is just a matter of a reporter not knowing the full story.

I do not know if reporters read blogs like many of the rest of us, but if they do it that would really help them get a grasp of the facts and publish a more accurate story. This would possibly eliminate all the talk of slanting or tilting one way or the other.

It sure seemed the Naperville Sun had a high standard of review for those Napergate Ads. If they would have a similar standard of review for their reporters, it would make the Naperville Sun a much more credible and respected newspaper that more of us would subscribe to instead of just using its site for free blogging!

Moderator Jim and Host Ted,
I just got done reading this thread. It reads like a nice book. Very interesting, intriguing and insightful is how I would describe it!

From recollection, I recall Jim saying he would like to do a few more articles on this Napergate story and we have not seen the end of it yet.

However, I am getting the impression from reading Ted's comments that he would rather not do any more stories on Napergate.

To me it seems like this story has a lot of relevance to our current politics. Also, Napergate being in focus, seems like a good reminder that someone else like the Napergate Man can come at anytime and they can be exposed again. The thought of Napergate provides a deterrent of sorts to our government officials. I am sure they took that huge heading on your Sunday front page as a WARNING or at least a REMINDER!

Anyway I would love to see more on this Napergate Story in print. If Jim is right and we will be seeing more, I would like to become a subscriber to the Sun.

Everyone loves a newspaper that is hard hitting and keeps City Hall in check. We all know what happens when City Officials suddenly feel like they are no longer accountable to the taxpayers.

The most shocking example I have yet seen on the blogs is when they told Sun reporter Tim West that they did not keep records on the cost of Napergate Case and if they did they would not provide them.

That ranks as one of the most arrogant statements I have ever heard a city official make to a news reporter.

I do hope reporters dig deeper as Ted suggested. I moved from a medium size town in North Carolina where reporters always dug deeper and they seemed to always have uncovered something like the Napergate Man did.

From reading many of the blogs lately, I seem to think there are serious conflicts of interest between city council members and the Brestal Law Firm. I would love to see an investigative reporter look into these. I was reading somewhere that the City Attorney ruled these relationships were not conflicts of interest. It seems like since they pay her, she rules as they please. You just are not going to get checks and balances from City Officials onto City Officials. You also are not going to get checks and balances from the police dept. investigating itself. Why would a police dept. ever investigate itself and admit to wrong doing which would subject the dept. to a lawsuit? Just makes no sense. As many have stated in their blogs an Internal Affairs investigation will always be biased and not reveal anything.

Having said all that, I would like to emphasize that the only serious check on government has to come from outside of goverenment. The best check is one by the newspaper and citizens.

It is apparent from what I have read that the Naperville Sun failed in the past. The Napergate Man took on the role of checking on government but really what can one guy do, even though it seems like he did an enormous amount. I bet he only hit the tip of the iceberg.

Finally, I would like to see some serious action from the Naperville Sun to back the words being given to us that they will no longer be soft on government officials. The admittance of softeness in the past is usually the beginning of something good to happen on the horizon. I am looking forward for that to happen and more articels on Napergate as I believe Napergate is still continuing at the moment. The only difference is the Napergate Man retired and there is simply no one in town with his abilities to uncover or stop the improprieties.....or I should say no one who has stepped forward yet as I believe there must be some residents or reporters in town with the awesome investigative skills of the Napergate Man.

PS. Almost forget to thank Randy for that very insightful look into the past. I have never heard of anyone taking on City Hall and the local newspaper at one time like the Napergate Man did and still beating them both in what appears to be very difficult circumstances. That is one for the history books to record. I guess he had the willpower to go with his brilliance! Must say he was one of a kind!

Note from Ted, host:

Kathleen,

You're right--Jim and I differ a little in terms of where to take Napergate in print from here. It's not that I wouldn't like to do more, it's more a question of staffing and what we're able to do with the resources we have. The more I learn about Napergate the more questions I have, and then I'm back to balancing whether it's really worth investing a staff reporter's time and effort investigating events more than a decade old when we've got so much going on today that we have to cover: elections, the 203 referendum, 204's new high school, park district nearing decisions on new executive director and Ponds of Hobson West, the Hanson trial getting underway, and much more. Putting out a newspaper is a collaborative process, and no one individual has total say in any decision. So, everything's possible, including more Napergate stories in print, but nothing's definite.

Hi Melissa (and Caroline, too). I’m baaaack.

The fact that someone hasn’t posted in a while is in no way indicative of their capitulation on the topic under discussion. It just so happens that work and family have a higher priority than answering misguided notions posted on the Potluck blogs. I was not waiting on the sidelines until this topic dropped off the main page--I was busy.

I do not always defend city hall as you stated. I am fairly insulted that you would pigeon-hole me as part of the Establishment just because I don’t fall in step with the Napergatians. I am actually fairly anti-Establishment, but I don’t think DF is the answer. I like to think of myself as being in the middle somewhere. Just because I’m not for you doesn’t mean I’m against you.

So exactly what propaganda were you referring to?

I’ve read the posts and have to say that I agree with most of what Naperville Lawyer and SW Naperville Taxpayer have already stated. This is a new era and we have new people at city hall. While I find it interesting to read what happened to the Napergate Man, it is not necessarily what happened to DF. It will not be admitted during his trial unless DF’s attorney’s can prove a direct link to what is happening now and I haven’t seen any basis for that.

I also mostly agree with police officer who wrote in defense of Chief Dial. However, while I agree that Dial may not have known what was happening at the time, the buck stops at the top (as they say) and he should have paid the price for his lack of control.

T.B.

P.S. Why is the number for CONPA located in Rockford (fonefinder.net)? Is this a real group or an “ambulance chasing” attorney looking to make a buck?

I starting reading the District 204 thread tonight since I did not feel like going to the bookstore in the cold to purhcase another book.

After reading about 15 posts on that thread, I gave up. No one explained what they were talking about. It seems like a bunch of kids arguing in an aol chat room. As a newcomer to the thread I could not understand the dispute about boundaries within the same district. Everyone seemed to be talking in circles with a hidden agenda that they were not willing to reveal.

Anyway, I switched to this Napergate thread and was pleasantly surprised. This thread was more like serious letters to the editor with everyone taking the time to explain themselves. Almost everyone was articulate in explaining their respective positions on the Napergate issues. You walked away understanding Napergate and both opposing views.

I just wanted to thank Police Officer, Mrs. of the Police Officer, Randy, Ameena, Naperville Lawyer and everyone else who shined the light on this story in a way to make it very easy to understand. While all the stories were great, Randy's story was a very unique and different kind of story. It was rather spectacular! I guess I have never heard of anyone being able to reverse a newspaper position by rallying his cause with in essence his own newspaper he put together on the spur of the moment.

Randy's post got my attention and I will admit I had to read it twice as it almost did not seem believable but he seems to have the facts, places, missing ad, and names to back his story. Furthermore, I believe if it was not true, the moderator or host would not have published his post.

But like others I would like to commend those with authority in the Sun who had the courage to post a story like that on the blog site of the same newspaper in question. This is a sign of a newspaper that wants to enter a new age for itself. My complements to the host and moderator for showing such unique courage. I would suspect that 99% of newspapers would never print anything like that about themselves. I guess we are in the 21st century and at least one newspaper seemed to have opened up to its readers.

Just another observation: When people use their first names or postions to identify themselves it just seems more real than using using cartoon character sort of names for identity as on District 204 and other threads. I think this Napergate thread symbolizes what a professional thread should look like. I am very impressed with all the bloggers here, the host and moderator. You are all doing a good job and I can't wait to return in a few days to read any additional postings that may occur!

I just want to add my thank you to all those who thanked Randy for that excellent blow by blow documentary he published yesterday. Thrilling to say the least!

I did not know so much action was taken place right here in Naperville. I thought we lived in a bedroom community till I read that documentary. It is an absolute must read!

Posted by: Dor | January 26, 2008 10:14 AM

PS. Like many others before me including Mrs. of the Police Officer I read all the sites and published my remarks on the wrong site because I did not switch back. Will try to make an effort to publish on the right site next time. Sorry, Host for
making your work harder than it already is.(Mentioned Mrs. of Police Officer so I could be in good company...she is such a unique and sincere lady. I absolutely love reading her blogs. I wish she would write lots and lots more.)

Nikki, you're right about challenging the statement about the costs of defending Napergate. It seems incredulous, doesn't it? The reporter--an intern who has returned to college--talked to other city officials not quoted in the story and all were reluctant to talk about the topic.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted,
I wish it was dislcosed earlier that an intern did that Napergate Story. I am sure myself and many others feel bad for criticising an intern handling such a tough assignment. Most probably not ever having heard of the case. I guess I would have thought a seasoned reporter would be assinged to such a unique and challenging case with many twists and turns.

The fact that other city officials would not talk about the legal expensses of Napergate indicates the City Manager must have slipped up when he talked about the case. Since he is new, he must have not known about the long standing taboo not to discuss the Napergate Case so it could be forgotten.

But since we taxpayers are possibly out a million or two million dollars that has never been acounted for, I say Napergate is alive and well and is not a dead or historical case. The Napergate Man did his best to uncover these legal expenses but let us admit this is one departmnet he failed in.

Yes, he did show publish graphs showing the budget of the in house legal dept rose from roughly 300,000 to 800,000(Ameena published the exact numbers, I am just going from memory), but he never could figure out where the million or two to the oustside legal firms went to.

Here is my pure specualtion! Former City Manager Peter Burchard who controls all the budgets of all the departments probably deliberately misallocated this outside legal expense and buried in a dept. with a bigger budget such as electricity or transportation so it would not be so noticeable.

Who would know the difference between 53 million or 51 million budgeted or expensed in the transportation dept. No one but an insider.

If the 2 million was added to the legal dept. like it should have, the Napergate Man would have had a graph showing the legal dept. budget increased from 300,000 in 1990 to 2.8 million in 1995 when the Napergate Case was running on all gears.

Why would they throw this 2 million in the legal dept when they knew the Napergate Man had that dept under the microscope.
I believe this is one time they outsmarted the Napergate Man and buried the money where he could never find it.

10 years later we have not found this money. No one has been held accountable. City Officials have said they don't have the cost and if they had it they would not give it to us. Now they changed their mind and said that high powered attorneys worked for cafetaria wages for 5 years. Not one but 5 outside attorneys were willing to work per year for what a cafetaria worker makes in a week.

Yes Ted, you are right on to the money trail....that statement as you stated is incredulous!

I hope you lean a little towards Moderator Jim's side and try to stay on this case until we uncover the money trail in Napergate. How could it be an "old case" with possiblly 2 million of money still unaccounted for? It is still an open case until we get some answers as where are hard earned tax dollars were hidden or lost!

Napergate has put City Officials on their toes. They do not want to deal with a second cover-up since they got caught but not nailed in the Napergate Case. In the DF case which is based on a simple stipulated short trial of "he said, she said," as everyone is saying, they have at least started by admitting to $400,000 for intial costs.

The early honest admittance is a result of the lessons of Napergate. Without Napergate establishing precedent, I suspect City Officials would be telling us this case should not cost anymore than 5-10k. I guess you can't fool the taxpayers twice that easily.

How does that saying go...fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me! At least the City of Naperville thanks to the Napergate Case can't fool us twice.

And finally did anyone ever think that $50,000 loan cancellation and $32,000 bonus to Burchard on the way out was HUSH MONEY to keep him quiet for the rest of his life. It was not severance money for leaving. No one gets severance money when they quit. That is also incredulous! But city officials do get hush money to remain silent forever.

Just imagince Burchard not getting the "Hush Money" he wanted and one day calling the Naperville Sun and telling them I did bury the Napergate legal expenses of the early 90s. You can find half in the electric dept and the other half in the transportation dept. Just look on line 8 and 17 in the respective budgets and you will find all the unaccounted money.

By in essence by paying him off, we may probably never uncover the last mystery in the Napergate Saga as the Napergate Man never did. But shouldn't we at least try as he tried for so many years! I think we should!

Note from Ted, host:

Nikki,

It's fantastic to speculate, but I think it highly unlikely that the legal costs would have been paid for in the way you describe. Knowing Napergate man, he'd discover the impropriety and nail them to the wall for it. THAT would be ironic.

Note from Ted, host:

Kathleen,

"You're right--Jim and I differ a little in terms of where to take Napergate in print from here. It's not that I wouldn't like to do more, it's more a question of staffing and what we're able to do with the resources we have. The more I learn about Napergate the more questions I have, and then I'm back to balancing whether it's really worth investing a staff reporter's time and effort investigating events more than a decade old when we've got so much going on today that we have to cover."

Ted,
I understand you have a budget and limited resources. Have you ever thought of using your own blogs to get answers to your many questions regarding Napergate basically for free. Citizen journalist/investigator Ameena asked a question and look at the answer she got from Randy....for free! I think you should try capitalizing on information your citizen journalists may possess before you spend your limited resources. I think Ameena seemed to have learned if you ask a question, someone may just have an answer and you could save yourself untold hours reseaching at the library.

It just seems you have a lot of unanswered questions and some guilt feelings for not doing a better job when you were a "powerless reporter." I think you would feel so much better if you would seek the answers to your questions and finally do the job that you could not do, now that you are not only a "powerful reporter" but also a Publisher/Editor/Host and in much control of the direction a newspaper takes.

I remember when I was a young girl, I wanted a train set so badly. My dad could not afford it. I never got over it until I bought one as an adult, put it together and enjoyed it. Now I can move on to bigger and better things. It seems like you will not be able to move on until your questions are answered...please seek the answers for your sake and our sake!

It just seems to me you can ask any question about Napergate and someone either has the answer or can find the answer. Perfect example was Randy finding a 15 year old Napergate V ad and attaching it in an e-mail to Ameena. And Ammena revealing its contents almost instantly. It cost neither of them anything. A few minutes of time since time is money but that is about it. And we all get instant investigative journalism free of charge. Why is the Sun not taking advantage of all its resources including its own threads for information?

In that first Napergate ad you posted, I noticed the Napergate Man gave an e-mail address and even a phone number and asked people to call or e-mail him with information. He was smart! He had 22,000 Citizen Journalists working for him. Did it ever occur to anyone that just may be the reason the Napergate Man had the news that no one else had or no one else dared to print. As another blogger said the Napergate Man was light years ahead of his times in anything he did including investigative journalism. I guess if there is a will there is a way. He had the will and always found the way.

I should not be just critiqueing the Naperville Sun. But I should critique all of us residents who no longer can find the will to give us the way to stop the Brestal Law Firm. It seems something happened in this internet age that has distracted us from focusing on significant improprieties taking place in our city and right under our noses. The Napergate Man and his supporters were always able to focus and stay with it. Why can't we? Perfect example was how only 5-10 residents showed up to challenge Brestal on Ponds Gate. I guarantee you the Napergate Man would have had chambers overflowing. We have to figure out what happened to cause us residents to lose interest in our town and just surrender it back to Brestal after the Napergate Man spent 20 years wrestling it away from Brestal and handing it to the residents before he retired! Soldiers that fought the Vietnam War are still not fighting in Iraq. The Napergate Man fought a 20 year war against City Hall and won it for us. How is it that we are not able to fight a war without him and even surrendering all the gains he achieved for us by fighting so hard. It is so dissappointing to read all I read on these blogs combined with the lack of any action including by my own self!

And I am shocked by the lack of interest on the "All Eyes on 75th Street" Thread. No one has even cared to making a posting in 6 days. What a differnce from the Napergate Days? In those days 300 people would march with the Napergate Man to protest on the SW Gate intersection! As Randy said that was the Napergate Man's last major battle in the war. It seems like us residents are ready to hand that parcel back to Brestal to build his high rise office buildings right next to our subdivisions. It is like we lost interest in our town and our now surrendering, after all the battles the Napergate Man won for us. I just don't know what went wrong and how it went so wrong. Maybe he was a motivator and we don't have a motivator! I did not think we needed a motivator, but maybe I was wrong.

Back to the subject at hand: Ted, I have yet to see you utilize your bloggers to help in investigative journalism. I don't see the benefits of these blogs to the Sun since there is no advertising on them contributing to the cost of running and maintaining them. Since the Sun owns them, they should be used by Sun Reporters to try to get answers before they jump in their cars on a wild goose chases that could be very costly and waste resources including precious gasoline.

I can tell you I have 0 answers for you on Napergate. But Randy, Ameena and many others seem to have plenty of answers. Everyone caught Randy's second post. But it seems like everyone missed Randy's first post in which he told of the Napergate Man having a first legal battle that went to the Supreme Court. Ameena verified that somewhere and even provided the date of the ruling of the Supreme Court verdict. How much easier can research get for a Sun Reporter when the date is provided for her if she wants to look up the ruling?

As you noted it seems journalism has gotten much easier as you have pointed out a few times how difficult the Napergate Man had it 15 years ago without everything available on the internet. I bet the Napergate Man would have been picking our brains out for answers if he had been fortunate enough to have this blogging mechanism that we now have.

OK, Ted start asking all your questions that are unanswered and I bet you over half will be answered by the bloggers.

And one last question! Since the Napergate Man was driving the bus you described and we lost him, are you or Moderator Jim willing to be
the new bus driver. You 2 are in possession of one of the most powerful tools the Napergate Man had--the Print Media and tons of Ink! No one else seems to have this tool so I hope you guys can drive the bus for us. Forget about being passengers...it is just not working! We are in desperate need of a driver!

Thanks!

T.B.: From what I can dig up, CONPA is an organization of ONE formed by a disgruntled subject who was arrested by the Naperville Police Department on a very serious charge!! For more, do a little research thru the Freedom of Information Act at the NPD records section. Not real hard to figure out this guy's agenda!!!

T.B.,
Looking at this Napergate thread compared to that last Furstenau thread, I do not see the support for Furstenau by Napergatians as you state. It almost stopped with just "pockets of denial" here and there. So I think your comments are more related to the past then present.

I think once Joe, SWT, yourself, or someone pointed out that 2000 dollars from Brestal to Furstenau, I saw almost all the Napergatians stop talking about Furstenau. They dumped Rosanova so why would they not dump DF. DF's silence is killing him. When the Napergate Man was accused falsely he did not remain silent. He spoke every day during his court proceedings. He wrote those Napergate ads and attacked all those who accused him wrongfully. He did not hold back or worry about an attorney sitting next to him. I guess he knew he was innocent and just told his story at any opportunity he could.

DF had to have his attorney sitting next to him. Drew Peterson had his attorney sitting next to him. The Napergate Man did not need any attorneys sitting next to him. He just blasted away and his attorneys and the Sun attorneys just had to make sure he did not cross the line of libel and slander. I guess he was quite emotional at times so they had to put some kind of brakes on him.

He even attacked the proseutor who was prosecuting him publicly and repeatedly. All the prosecutor could do is drag this bottle of liquor that was in the sting operator's hand for a mintue into a court case that lasted for nearly 3 years until the Judge decided he was tired of giving the prosecutor continuances. I recall reading somewhere the prosecutor was granted a record 9 continuances by the Judge. Try getting 2 if you are a civilian. The Judge will probably throw you in jail if you ask for a 3rd continuance. I think this one component of the case was dismissed when the Judge finally told the prosecutor to put up or shut up.He shut up!

Unless DF comes out and explains that 2000 dollars, he will lose all his support from the Napergatians. The Napergatians are not pro DF. They are more anti-Brestal and anti-corrupiton. You will see them gradually separate from DF completley unless he can explain that huge campaign contribution.

As far as the police officer... He seemed to know way to much. I am willing to bet he works for the NPD to know about those winks and nods from the Prosecutor. I believe Naperville traffic and DUI cases have their own court room as there are so many of them. Remember Naperville leads the state with 800 DUIs. So they have their own room for that too I suspect. For speeding tickets they not only have their own room but it is overflowing. So he has to be a Naperville Cop disguising as a non-Naperville Cop trying to help the Police Chief. I never see non-Naperville cops in Naperville courtrooms.

I guess I am admitting I speed frequently by my statement. I have been trying to slow down but it is so easy to go 36 in a 25 speed limit residential street without even trying. And I never get a break from a cop! So I am in court a lot!

Finally, I agree with your anaylsis whether the Police Chief knew or did not know, he has to take responsibiltiy for all those cops that were hassling the Napergate Man. Despite all the verdicts against the NPD, nothing happpens to them. It is as if they are immune. No one dares hold them accoutable. The City Council won't, the Naperville Sun won't and the citizens won't or can't. So it is business as usual like nothing happened. Whenever they abuse someone, I assume they settle secretly, and go back to their own ways.

I was really shocked when that Ameena chick posted that letter by that huge IABTF Liquor Organization accusing the city prosecutor, some city officials and certain police with all those charges. I guess their investigation panned out with those Appellant Courts affirming them. But if those AC courts did not affirm them, I think the City of Naperville would have separated that organization from at least a billion dollars of their money for making that horrendous accussation. That verdict would have been so large for the City of Naperville everyone would have been exempt form real estate tax for a decade. Unfortuately or fortunately, it turned out accurate for us taxpayers or residents respectively! Since the City of Naperville took no action, one has to assume the IABTF had some solid evidence to support the Napergate Man...such as videotapes and those hundreds of fake IDs which he had and were also introduced in trial.

In summary I just wanted to point out that you need to notice the difference between Napergatians before the 2000 contribution was disclosed and after the contribution was disclosed. It is a world of difference. At this point the Napergatians seem to be missing their leader, remembering him and honoring him. Probably feeling bad for him that his endorcees trampled on his legacy by taking that dirty money from the Brestal Law Firm. They have no interest in anyone that takes money from Brestal. Trust me on that one point! They probably realized for the first time Furstenau could never replace their retired leader and I sense a lot of depression in their hidden words...a lot of frustration. They just feel DF sold them like Rosanova sold them. If you could see their faces you would see the Agony of Defeat!

Ted and Jim,
From reading all these blogs and even your comments, I just sense there is a fear of taking on City Hall. Is it because your building is in the City of Naperville city limits?

I remember many years ago when White Eagle declared themselves in Naperville, they upset Aurora. Aurora retaliated by cutting off the water or electricity or both.

Are you guys afraid if you stand up to the City of Naperville they will cut off your electicity or water? Possibly pull some electrical black out on your building and blame a mouse or raccoon for disrupting electricity.

If that is not the case, seriously why are you guys afraid of them. Or are you really not afraid of them and just want to keep a good relation with them? Which is it?

I guess an alternative is publish numerous "letters to the editor" that call them out until they come out. You can blame it on your readers and remind them that they have to print these letters. They should know what happened the last time they tried to censure you guys. The Napergate ad was delivered right to City Hall with even more penetration. So what good would it be to censure you again, cut off your water, or tamper with electrical black-outs. Sometimes I feel like the City of Naperville was acting like Moscow or Shanghai by attempting to censure you for allowing Napergate ads. That was ridiculous that they would pull such a stunt. Yes, you succumbed to their pressure but who wouldn't. They control the police, the water, the electricity, the streets, the snowplowing, the jails and who knows what else. So I understand your predicament of being between a hard place and a rock.

I guess if they harrassed the Sun, you could sell your building and buy the identical piece of land with a similar building for 60 cents on the dollar if you are willing to move to Aurora. Just think how much INK you would have to blast city officials for forcing you to move due to that 40% savings. My only hope is you would use that INK with the ferociousness used by the Napergate Man to get back at them. And they could never ever again cut your water or electricity to retaliate for a good investigative report on them.

Host,
Is this site a blogging site or a "Letter to the Editor"
site. I am confused!

It just looks like no other blog site I have ever seen. People have strong feelings about this Napergate Issue and the Napergate Man.

It is very unusual but I admit extremely informative.

I just started bloggin and I am curious how this old Napergate Story could suddenly resurface in such a manner. Of course, I remember it from vividly from all those Napergate Ads. Who could ever forget those ads in the Naperville Sun?

I guess I have to say I am glad for the REVISIT!

Note from Ted, host:

Mickie,

I like to call it an online community forum. People are free to express opinions, and while the moderators choose topics and screen posts for inappropriate comment, it is a lot more about reading others' opinions than those of the moderators.

I am shocked to learn that City Officials would ever attempt to impose a form of censorship on our local newspaper. It just seems like communism or fascism!

Why did Sun Officials not call the State Police or FBI when the city threatened them for printing the Napergate Ads?

I thought we live in America where free speech and thought were tolerated. How could a story like this be kept from the readers of the Sun for over a dozen years? It is no wonder this Napergate story has many legs and refuses to die!

My many thanks to Ameena for digging this case out of the mothballs and to Randy for remembering all those details.

Somebody has to be held accountable for daring to censor the Naperville Sun and control its content be it editorial, news, or advertising. I don't care that it is 12 years later. This is a really serious issue and we need to know that it will never happen again in our town! It needs to be addressed publically!

City Officials need to stick to running the town! They should not be trying to control the Naperville Sun in order to protect whatever they may be doing behind our backs from being exposed!

Note from Ted, host:

While Randy certainly seemed to has a voice of authority in regards to Napergate, I'm not sure that's exactly how it went down with the Napergate IV and V ads. It likely wasn't censorship or an attempt to censor like you think. The reality is, in all media, from the smallest hometown newspaper to the biggest TV network, people of influence who are subject of news reports often try to persuade editors, publishers, broadcasters, etc. to spin a report a certain way or leave out information. It's commonplace. That's where integrity comes in.

Herbert,
This is not a case of fear! It is a case of censorship by the City of Naperville against the Naperville Sun. Censorhip by governement against the media. Something very common in 3rd world dictatorships!

It seems obvious that something went awfully wrong for Napergate V and Napergate VI not to be published. Not only did the City deprive the Sun of its right to free expression but denied its only source of revenue....advertising!

I just don't think anyone can make up a story like this. It is just too real. The Napergate Man had published 49 ads before those 2 ads and 49 after those 2 ads. He is simply not going to stop on his own and suddenly decide to deliver hand to hand to a 100,000 residents in Naperville for 2 of his 100 Editions including the famous Napergate Series. Plus the Sun is not going to voluntarily cut off its source of revenue. That makes no sense either!

So its seem the Big Boys from the Establishment told the Naperville Sun, enough is enough! It could have been done with nods and winks like that prosecutor did with those police. But it was probably done bluntly and in plain English!

But whatever was done to stop the free expression of thought in our town thru our local newspaper is simply intolerable.

As citizens we need to defend the Naperville Sun and protect it form any other attacks by our City Officials. Enough is enough!
I would have never imagined such a thing could take place under our noses and for us not even to know about it for over a decade. It seems so surreal!

Did you notice that Joe guy is missing lately? He seemed to be the official or unofficial spokesperson of the city. He loves to blog! But the city has a strict policy against discussing Napergate and I am sure Joe was told he is no exception. This has just been way to sensitive a topic with the city for way too long. So the mystery of censorship and other craziness finally all pops out 12 years later. And it sure leaves a BLACK EYE on our beautiful town!

Note from Ted, host:

While Randy certainly seemed to has a voice of authority in regards to Napergate, I'm not sure that's exactly how it went down with the Napergate IV and V ads. It likely wasn't censorship or an attempt to censor like you think. The reality is, in all media, from the smallest hometown newspaper to the biggest TV network, people of influence who are subject of news reports often try to persuade editors, publishers, broadcasters, etc. to spin a report a certain way or leave out information. It's commonplace. That's where integrity comes in.

******************************************************************

Host,
I don't think Randy said one word about censorship. I think things are getting twisted. I believe Randy told it exactly as it happened without putting any salt and pepper on the matter.

I think the speculation is going to turn rampant if the Naperville Sun does not give its official version as to what occurred. Your post was very vague...just way to vague as if you want us to be confused and not have the real answer. It brings more questions than answers.

Maybe it was not censorship, but it sure seems there was pressure from the city to stop those ads. Now what you are forgetting is those ads were PAID ADS and should never have been subjected to pressure from outsiders. There has to be a different standard for a PAID AD as opposed to a news article.

Maybe you should be able to influence an article in your newspaper, but should you be able to influence a PAID AD expressing an opinon. That is much different. The standard for influencing should be different. If city officials did not like his ADS and I emphasize ADS, why did they not take their own ADS and fight back. Most City Officials make over a 100k a year. Could not 2 or 3 of them have bought an ad and gave their story in an ad instead of pressuring the Sun to discontinue his ads. Maybe they felt they were in an indefensible position and the only way to win is to silence the Napergate Man. It seems that is what they attempted.

Wasn't it enough that the Naperville Sun was pressured not to cover him, and now we find out City Officials pressured you guys not to publish his ads. Yes, I did notice what that blogger stated about all the articles about Spring Green failing to mention the Napergate Man by title or name. As if he was the INVISIBLE MAN instead of the NAPERGATE MAN. Thank God for his ads the story got out. Between the Naperville Sun and the City of Naperville his remarkable story almost was never told.

I think it is becoming obvious why Ameena decided to dig into this story. She felt something did not add up. And surely something did not add up. She delayed publishing her findings for 3 days because she wanted to be sure as this story was not adding up. Thanks to Randy, this story finally adds up.

It does not matter if there was an official censorship by city officials or pressure to stop the ads. Really what is the difference! The result was the same!

All the Napergate Man in hindsight was doing was defending his name from false allegations. The city was trying to railroad him by charging him falsely and now we find out also denying him his right to speak and defend himself publically!

I am suddenly feeling outraged about this whole mess. I just wish the Sun will give us their version. Until I hear the Naperville's Sun version in plain English that I can understand Randy and Ameena will be my authority on this subject.

James -

I hope you're right and the campaign money gives the Napergatians somehting to think about regarding DF. However, even after the $2K payments came to light some of them were trying to defend DF while others went silent so we don't know what they think.

Victoria -

Good idea, though it would still be a manpower issue for the Sun as they would never go to print unless they were able to verify what they learned from the posts. The liability is just too big.

T.B.

Ted,
I tracked Randy's post on this matter. These are his exact words.

3. When he(Napergate Man) pressed the Naperville Sun staff for a reason of the termination of his advertising rights in the newspaper of which he had advertised in for over a dozen years, they finally admitted to him that City Officials had pressured them to no longer publish his Napergate ads. "Liquor ads are welcome, but no more Napergate ads" he was told by Sun Staff. He tried to convince them to reverse their decision but they adamantly refused after very long negotiations.

******************************************************************

As you can see Randy said nothing about censorship. His credibilty should not be damaged because people are twisting his words. I believe he said it as it was. If I read what you are saying, Ted, you almost seem to be saying the same thing Randy said but being a little vague...don't know why you are being vague.

One has to ask!
1. Is it possible that the Napergate Man suddenly decided for no reason to go a primitive hand to hand delivery and distribution system after 12 year in the Sun. Unlikely! And if he did decide to go that way, why would he come back 2 ads later???

2. Is it possible that the Naperville Sun would ditch probably their number one advertisor at the time for no reason? He allowed the Naperville Sun to review his ads for accuracy and remove any libel or slander out of them which was beneficial to both parties.

3. It seems the only logical thing that could have happened is City Officials pressured the Naperville Sun. They were the ones being attacked. They had reason to try to stop the attacks. They had a motive here. The Sun did not have a motive to stop his ads! Neither did the Napergate Man have a motive to stop his own ads...ludicrous to think he would!

The irony of this whole fiasco is they brought these vicious attacks on themselves by bringing false charges. Every person who is charged wrongfully would be smart to react like the Napergate Man. He apparently cared about his reputation and if someone was going to damage his reputation, he was going to damage theirs 10 fold. It appears that what happened! When City Officials could not take the heat they came to the Sun hollering "Uncle" please help us put the fire out.

They should have put the fire out by dropping the false charges and not pressuring the Sun to stop the ads. It was not till Napergate XXIV that the high court vindicated him(Posted by: Ameena | January 21, 2008 09:18 AM).

So he apparently felt a need to vindicate his name for an addional 20 more Napergates ads until the courts finally ruled.

It does not seem like the Napergate Man had an ax to grind or any agenda but one of keeping his name clean and his reputation intact. We all know that as soon as he vindicated himself from all those false charges, he dropped the subject and immediately went to helping residents fight creeping commercial development.

I like many others am very outraged that the City would pressure the Sun to stop those Napergate Ads. I reiterate that I believe every word Randy said. He has no reason to lie 12 years later. He was simply answering a question asked by Ameena. What reason or motive would he have to lie to us? He rarely blogs and does not seem like he needs attention like the "old Joe." He was just trying to help poor Ameena who was going out in the cold to the library day after day because she smelled something really bad and could not figure it with much certainty. She needed help, asked for it, and Randy gave it to her with hard facts including one of 2 missing ads she may have spent a month looking for with a librarian.

He had all this information and chose not to write about it in his first blog on this thread. He was not looking to open old wounds and probably chose to avoid the subject. He was doing nothing more than answering a question. And again he never said a word about censorship. It appears some bloggers and possibly the host picked up on this subject wrongfully. But there probably is a very thin line between extreme pressure not to print and censorhip. Since those 2 ads were never printed, I can see how some bloggers are calling it censorhip. But Randy never used the word as you can see from his quote above. Or if you like refer to his original post again and you will see he never used the word once in his very long post(Posted by: Randy | January 25, 2008 08:21 AM)

Response from Ted, host:

Cindy,

I wasn't trying to be vague. I'm just saying, I don't know exactly what happened or how it did. Randy offers one version. I was responding to another commenter who said The Sun caved in to censorship pressure from city officials. I'm saying, I don't think it happened like that, there's probably more to it than that. When someone directly criticizes The Sun or accuses it of something I've got to respond. As for Randy's contention that Basim said someone from sun staff "admitted" to there being pressure from city officials, I don't take that as gospel. I can't say how it did happen because I don't know. Someone would have to identify this staffer who allegedly used those words 15 years ago, track that person down and ask him or her why those words were said, if they were at all. Maybe it was just an excuse made up on the spot because that person had nothing better to tell Basim. Maybe some editor or ad rep was just sick of the hassle of having those ads reviewed by attorneys and holding up production of the newspaper and wanted to make his or her job easier so he or she blamed the city. There are a lot of other plausible explanations as to why the Napergate IV and V ads weren't printed.

Obviously this Napergate Fiasco is a case that has never been vetted out properly. I think the only way it will be vetted out and put to rest is if those responsible are held accountable for the mess they created.

I just find it so hard to believe the Napergate Man offered City Officials 1500 dollars and an apology and they refused to accept such a generous offer. They start up with him by bringing a dozen false charges but he hits them 100 times as hard and they have to go to the Naperville Sun like cry babies for help in preventing the truth from being published, that is exposing them for whom they really are for the first time in their lives.

Wow...this case is unbelievable! I did not know it even involved cry babies who start fires and complain about the heat.

I am hoping we will hear from Ameena and Randy some time soon as I suspect they both have additional information. My understanding from her blogs,is Ameena has been talking to people at the library who knew of the Napergate Fiasco and have some first hand information. I am sure some will be able to shed some light. But Ameena being the investigative citizen reporter she is seems very reluctant to publish anything without proof....kind of like the Napergate Man was. Obviously after reading all his ads, he must have made an impact on her and she understands the strong meaning of credibility. She understands how easy she can lose her credibility. Having said that she is probably diggin much deeper if she had time to check on this thread the last 24 hours and knows about this latest controversy regarding political influence or censorship or whatever one wants to call it. She is most likely not going to come on to chat. That woman only comes on if she has hard facts!

I read Ted's post. It makes a little sense but his rationale falls apart when you factor in the Napergate Man was making comments in a paid advertisement...not to a Sun Reporter! I don't believe you should be able to censure or prevent a paid ad from being published as long as it is not obscene.

The Napergate Man and the Naperville Sun took 2 additional steps.
1. To check the facts for accurary.
2 To review the wording for possible libel and slander.

They passed the rigorous test of no obscenity, no libel, no slander and accuracy. What more could they have done? Nothing!

The Napergate Man told the truth that he was framed, that he was railroaded, that he was kangarooed, that he was abused, that he was discriminated against and that he was not treated equally under the law. All was true and the TRUTH BROKE CITY OFFICIALS. They had a massive nervous breakdown for their lies and tried to blame it on the Naperville Sun for publishing truthful and accurate ads...reviewed over and over again by many attorneys from both sides. They needed to look in the nearest mirror to find out who should take the blame here...those who brought false charges against the toughest retailer against minors in the country. Something documented so heavily and they wanted us to believe he was irresponsible and incompetent...wow!!!

I was running errands all day so I missed the action but at least I was able to review the blogs. Below are the comments that the Napergate Man wrote in the introduction to his ad between the heading of Napergate V and his 4 subheadings after his ad was rejected. I believe this is the only change he made after his friend Ray Kinney quickly ran off the 20,000 copies. The only significant difference between this ad and the Napergate Ads in the Sun was it was in color instead of black and white. Otherwise it looked identical from layout, to size to subheadings. This is the ad that was rejected by the Naperville Sun. Just to correct a minor error by Ted, it was Napergate V and VI that were not printed in the Sun and not Napergate IV and V. I feel if we don't keep even the minor details straight we will end up confusing ourselves.

Below are his words verbatim in Napergate V that were right under the title and before the first subheading:

NAPERGATE V

DUE TO PERCEIVED OR REAL PRESSURE FORM CITY OF NAPERVILLE OFFICIALS

THE NAPERVILLE SUN WOULD NOT PRINT THIS AD.

WHAT ARE CITY OFFICIALS AFRAID OF?

Of course those words were in big letters and bolded right after the heading. He made sure they stuck out so that even if one chose not to read the ad, he would catch that part.

As far as the ad delaying the production of the paper that may have occurred. Many of his ads did not make the Wednesday deadline but were printed in the Friday edition. So basically I would assume that the theory of delaying the paper is not plausible since the ad could be printed one edition later if the libel attorneys in California say were behind schedule.

The Napergate Man seemed like a real stickler about watching his credibility. You can see above how he chose his words very carefully.

It seems if one were solving a crime or mystery you have to look at the motive. One hypothetical scenario is someone in the Sun was very pro city and was under pressure from his friends in city hall to find a way to stop the ads. So he could have given other Sun staffers or colleagues the excuse that this ad was suddenly becoming a hassle to cover the real reason he/she wanted it stopped along with City Officials. I am of course speculating as Ted was!

My theory would be that since these ads were numerous and money generating for the Sun the hassle factor would be insignificant. It is always a hassle to make money in the real world. No one just gives it to you! Plus in between these Napergate ads he published numerous full page ads that only advertised liquor. He appears to be far and away the leading advertiser in the Naperville Sun in the 90s.

It does not seem logical that the Sun would cut off his advertising which is basically like one cutting their own throat and not being able to eat anymore. It seems much more plausible that city officials were pressuring the Sun directly and indirectly and the Sun fell for the pressure. Since the Naperville Sun at the time was much more pro-establishment than it is today, it does not surprise me the slightest of pressure may have caused them to cave in. I believe that a paying advertiser would suddenly become a hassle causing delays, is just an excuse that a pro-City Sun staffer may have come up with to protect City Officials and him or herself from the real reason especially since the ad could simply appear in the next edition.

That is my theory. Just like Ted's theory. The theories can't be proved! But all the facts really sway heavily that there was direct and indirect pressure to stop these ads by city officials who were being BLASTED weekly by these ads. It just makes too much sense. Even one of Ted's earlier comments that were vague seem to hint this is a possible scenario.

I very strongly believe Randy's version is very credible and my numerous second hand eyewitness who talked to Napergatians bringing ads to their homes, pretty much relay the same story but in pieces and bits and not in Randy's detail.

I hope that helps a little bit with the debate! Again I don't think the Napergate Man would have made that statement above if he could not back it up. By making it kind of vague, he may have been covering for the one staffer that he believed told him the TRUTH. I am assuming a retailer that did both retail and political ads for so long had many friends and contacts in the Sun that fed him information privately just as he had friends in City Hall who went as far as disclosing proceedings in Executive Sessions during Council Meetings. Based on his very long and established credibility in his ads that were later upheld by so many court rulings, the Napergate Man's word to Randy combined with his own words in his own Napergate V ad, have to carry the most weight and be believed. That is my opinion for whatever it is worth!

Sorry about the delayed response but sometimes it is nice to rest on Sunday....

Ameena...

Note from Ted, host:

Another amazing post, Ameena. Napergate man said it himself when he chose the words, "perceived or real pressure from city of Naperville officials." That statement supports both our theories. I guess I'd like to believe it was more perceived than real. Thanks for correcting my earlier mistake. I don't want to detract from your post by elaborating on it, just wanted to say well done.

At the risk of indulging in a bit of "shop talk," I just want to take a moment to address some comments about The Naperville Sun and whether it was more "pro-establishment" in the past than today. I started at the paper 10 years ago, when it was 3 days a week and still featured a lot of the community events and club news common to small-town newspapers. "Hard" news wasn't as prevalent back then, in Naperville or in the pages of The Sun. We all know how Naperville has grown, and over the years The Sun's tone and approach has matured as well.

As for editorial integrity and "pro-establishment" thoughts, I want to offer an analogy to a TV show I've been getting into lately, HBO's "The Wire." (I've been renting the DVDs.) A newspaper can be like any bureaucracy -- a city government, a school district, a police department. A bureacracy is populated by all types of personalities. You're going to have people of great character and integrity, and you're going to people who are much more willing to make compromises. In "The Wire," the lead character McNulty is a cop who acts on his principals, and in his organization (the Baltimore Police Department) his bosses are always making deals. Sure, it's fiction, but it's realistic. Even the criminal organizations in the show are depicted as bureacracies! My point is this: some of the talk about the old days of The Sun makes me uncomfortable because the deeper we get into Napergate I suspect we'll hear more about events, decisions and compromises that will be, how shall I put this, unflattering about the newspaper. I can't and won't sign my own death warrant. I'm not saying I know where any skeletons are hidden--I don't. I just sense that if this thread starts to delve too far into its examination of The Sun's role in Napergate, a point is going to be reached where we the moderators are going to have to face tough decisions about how much dirty laundry are we going to allow to be aired about our own organization, however long ago it might have been.

Ted,
I think you are overreacting! It seems people have been discussing the numerous reversals of the Napergate Man. One happened to be related to the Naperville Sun. No big deal in my opinion!

This is an unusual case and it is probably the first time and only time the Naperville Sun succumbed to possible pressure from City Officials and then later to reverse pressure from the Napergate Man. It is an interesting story that we can all learn from. It is an exciting and thrilling story!

No one is perfect in this world. The Naperville Sun is not, the City Council Members are not, the Police Dept. is not, the Napergate Man is not and most Churches are not either. So I don't think you should be sensitive to minor "perceived" criticism about something that took place 15 years ago. It is just part of history we can all learn from including the Naperville Sun.

I think the lesson to be learned and I am sure it has already been learned, is that a newspaper has to remain neutral and factual. It should not succumb to pressure from either side of a heated controversy! Another thing we can learn from those Napergate ads is how far credibility can take you in this world. As you and Ameena noted the Napergate Man always chose his words carefully to cover his credibility when not sure. Note the word "perceived" which you noted before me! It seems like he was 99% sure but not 100% sure so I believe he chose that word to be extremely cautious as he was watching his credibility it seems at all times.

If politicians know a newspaper will reveal and report their misdeeds, they are much less likely to perform them in the first place. There would be no need to be pressuring a newspaper not to write about their misdeeds if they simply avoided performing them in the first place. Just like a criminal may not commit his crime if he feels there is a strong likelihood of being caught and jailed by the police.

After Randy's initial posting, it seems like the Naperville Sun was getting raving reviews for having come along way in the last 15 years. A very long way! I think at some point one blogger used the word censorship, you vehemently defended and postings started getting out of control. You probably should have ignored that one blogger. Prior to that post my observation was the Sun was obtaining excellent reviews due to Randy's post. Even Randy himself praised the Naperville Sun and defended it in its most current article about Napergate before posting his memories of past. He was obviously a Napergatian who had issues with the old Naperville Sun and suddenly speaking so highly of the new Naperville Sun. That should really tell you how far the paper has come in 15 short years....a very long way!!!

We all at times need to have thick skin. You are probably not used to being criticized as most of the rest of the population. It is not a big deal to be criticized if the criticism is constructive with the intent of improving the future. I believe that was the intent of most of the bloggers on this Napergate thread!

This part of the Napergate Story will blow over very quickly just like all the other parts have blown over and gone into different chapters rather quickly. The only reason it would not blow over quickly is if the Naperville Sun decides to make an issue of one specific item that concerns itself which is so historical. I think we all need to learn from this historical case including the Naperville Sun. What is wrong with learning from past mistakes? Who on this earth has not made a mistake in the past...no one! And usually one can only truly learn by making mistakes! People who never take risks and make mistakes never learn anything...if we did not take risks and make mistakes we would all still be cavemen instead of living in a highly civilized and technical society.

Your statement of "I can't and won't sign my own death warrant" is a complete overreaction. For the most part you have been complemented by better than 90% of the bloggers. You should be thinking of signing your own promotion instead of your own death warrant!

I would also like to commend you for your great work and openness as the majority of bloggers have. Please don't reverse it all by trying to avoid a minor subject that includes negative criticism of the Sun. It seems like you could reverse everything you have done so far to obtain your numerous accolades by making one mistake. Continue on the path you started with complete openness and do not deviate from that path that got you where you are now. Your success on these threads has been remarkable! A few months ago one or two people would blog. Now you are getting hundreds per each good thread. As the Naperville Lawyer noticed your last Napergate Thread got about 30 in a month. You new one got about 120 in a week. If you extrapolate this thread to a month you will have 480 posts before the month is up and it is off the Main Page. That speaks volumes to your success and that of the Moderator. That would be a 16 fold increase in bloggers on a similar thread in less than a month. That to me measures your success and speaks volumes. Pretty soon you can put ads on these threads to help defray their cost due to your huge success.

Your success is truly amazing on these threads. Why would you want to stop it by avoiding discussion of such a hot and controversial topic as Napergate?. It seems like every intellectual in Naperville wants to come out and join the discussion. It seems you found a very unique and unusual topic that not only generates extreme interest but sells newspapers that helps pay your bills. I sincerely believe if the old Sun capitalized on the Napergate Story instead of ignoring it, the Naperville Sun would have had a circulation of 33,000 instead of 22,000 in those Napergate Days. I suspect you need to sell lots of newspapers in order to pay for additional investigative reporters. Good investigative reporters who dig deep like the Napergate Man did, will sell even more newspapers. I think a town with highly educated residents like Naperville, loves a hard hitting investigative type of newspaper. The old community paper was dying a slow death and signing its own "death warrant" until you and Jim came along and began turning things around. I say stay on your path and don't deviate....have thick skin and move forward!

Note from Ted, host:

Yeah, you're probably right. It was late when I wrote that. It was honest, though. I can't help how I feel.

Ameena,
I just woke up out of my sleep and decided to read your latest (Posted by: Ameena | January 27, 2008 11:51 PM.) I agree with Host Ted that it was truly amazing. Not only do you have investigative skills but you also have amazing analytical skills.

And you seem like you always watch your credibility like the Napergate Man did by only posting facts and letting us know when you are being theoretical.

It seems like we don't know for sure what happened as you and Ted seem to be indicating, but it just seems that there was a lot of pressure coming from those City Officials who were being blasted in those ads.

I don't buy the theory that a lowly Sun advertising staff person could just make a complaint that these ads are a nuisance to her and she wants them stopped and they would suddenly be halted. Dah...! That is why the Sun is paying her. That theory is simply not believable. And you shattered the theory of the difficulty the Sun was having of meeting deadlines by noticing some of the Napergate ads were published on Friday instead of Wednesday. It is logical to assume this was to avoid the entire paper from being delayed until the ad could be reviewed. I would also think that the Sun could have moved up the deadline by one day on the Napergate Man to give themselves the extra time they needed to review it without having to delay the presses or move it to a future date.

In those days I recall the Wednesday and Friday editions as being both extremely powerful with the Sunday Edition being very weak.
So I do not see why it would make a difference to the Napergate Man if his ad appeared Wednesday or Friday. He just wanted the ad to eventually reach his readers!

This Napegate 10 year saga was a long war so I think he could care less about which day his ad popped in the Naperville Sun.
A one day delay is nothing compared to 5 year delays in his court battles. Anyway thanks Ameena for your post that gave us the Napergate Man's exact words again so we don't keep speculating. I hope you find that Napergate VI ad. I am sure it will pop up soon as everything else seemed to have popped up..

__________________________________________________________________

Host,

You seem to be a little oversensitive and overzealous about nothing. You were a lowly "powerless reporter" as you describe yourself. I am sure you rose thru the ranks to nearly the top because someone in the Naperville Sun wanted some fresh blood to replace the old blood. I am assuming from the Sunday Naperville Edition about Napergate that I bought you are second in command at the Sun. Until I bought that edition which was the first one I bought in 2 years I thought you were a lowly employee playing host to a bunch of bloggers babbling away. I am very impressed that you are the Managing Editor. I assumed after reveiwing page 2, that you were second in command to Jim Lynch since he was the only one listed above you. I also thought Jim was a lowly employee bloggin with us trying to get this site going. I was shocked to find out he was actually the Editor/Publisher of the Sun who I am assuming in layman's language is the Big Boss!

For the last 10 years, I honestly thought Tim West was everything at the Naperville Sun except the owner. So buying that newspaper because of Napergate taught me who is who. You guys never bothered to introduce yourselves. So I guess I can take credit for introducing you to the rest of the bloggers.

I have a question for you. Was Tim West ever that head honcho at the Naperville Sun or is that just a perception on the street since he has been around for a long time? What is the highest position he ever held? Was he ever Editor/Publisher?

I think it is exciting to get into history once in a while and learn about both the Naperville Sun and Napergate. I suddenly found myself interested in learning about the personalities that run the Naperville Sun. I know that is not news but it is nevertheless interesting. Who wants to hear about crimes everyday? It seems like it is the same old story repeated by another idiot committing the identical crime. And who wants to hear the individual stories of all 800 residents getting DUIs? What is there to know? They all had one to many to drink!

The Napergate Story is so different and I think that is why readers are so interested to learn more about Napergate and the Napergate Man. I find it fascinating that he is almost always called the Napergate Man and never by his name. I still don't know his name even though I recall seeing it once on these blogs. I think the host is the only one to seem to know his name and possibly the only one who mentioned him by name. I think that is another remarkable part of this story. How his nickname stuck so strongly! Maybe Ameena can tell us why people chose to call him the Napergate Man instead of by his name which I can not remember suddenly! I am sure she either has the answer or will find it.

Let us face it the Napergate Man was doing so much for this town the last 20 years and he was almost the best kept secret by the Old Naperville Sun. I think the New Naperville Sun has a duty to tell us about him since the old Naperville Sun ignored him.

As many said he was literally able to move mountain after mountain. We are lucky to have such a person amongst us who we can learn so much from.

It is apparent there currently is not one single person in Naperville who knows how to start a grassroots movement. No one seems able to drive the bus as the host/moderator once indicated. Maybe if we study the history of the Napergate Man we will learn how to drive buses filled with grassroots supporters and make an impact on our Council Members as the Napergate Man once did. I agree with many bloggers that he left a huge legacy that needs to be told if not studied. I am glad Ameena is telling it to us day by day. I honestly woke up in the middle of the night to see if Ameena had reported yet. The minute I saw her post my eyes woke up too. And I felt like writing before returning to bed. It is just a story that motivates me to write. I suddenly find myself enjoying the art of writing! I hated writing before this Napergate Story began surfacing a month or so ago on these blogs. I have never written a letter to the editor of any newspaper including the Naperville Sun. So this is new to me and I am having fun.

I really hope you and Jim can help Ameena with her coverage of the Napergate Man. Just look at all these new bloggers joining us to blog about him. You invited them to come on your front page and they came. Let us not disappoint them and show them why we love bloggin and how much there is to learn on these open threads. The success of the threads is their openness. I hope you never close them because of any skeleton in any closet be it in my closet or your closet. If you do, they will become as boring as that old community Naperville Sun that declined in readership from 22,000 to 15,000 despite a 50% increase in population as one blogger corretly pointed out. Sorry, I don't remember him/her so I can't give credit where credit is due.(It may be Marshall though who was computing some penetration numbers.)

I hope by the end of the year you can report an increase of 5000 subscribers instead of only the 1000 we had for 2007. I still have not subscribed but at some point I would be interested if stories like Napergate are given more print coverage. And like many others I do not think this is an old story. As long as there are any improprieties in City Hall, Napergate will always be current. The name to me symbolizes "cover-up" at City Hall....plain and simple!!! I think it symbolizes that to most bloggers. We all saw in the last month or two on these blogs, how Napergate was transformed from a liquor case to a creeping commercial development case focused on improprieties at City Hall. Your 75th St. thread indicates we are still in the Napergate Era but only taking a long pause until Mr. Brestal decides to resurface.

I just have this funny feeling that when Brestal tries to put his high rise office building on SW Gate those 3500 Napergatians will reincarnate very quickly. That is just a feeling I have ! Only time will tell! I am going back to sleep.

Thanks Ameena and thanks Mr. Host for the use of your gigabytes to write! It is fun to revisit writing since the old days of my college years.

Note from Ted, host:

No, Tim West was never editor/publisher. In fact that title has only been around a short while. Jim's predecessor was just "publisher."

Note from Ted, host:

Another amazing post, Ameena. Napergate man said it himself when he chose the words, "perceived or real pressure from city of Naperville officials." That statement supports both our theories. I guess I'd like to believe it was more perceived than real. Thanks for correcting my earlier mistake. I don't want to detract from your post by elaborating on it, just wanted to say well done.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Host,
In reading the numerous posts on Napergate including yours, Ameena's and Randy's, I disagree with your belief that it was perceived pressure. I feel strongly it was real pressure for the Naperville Sun to take a drastic move against its NO. 1 advertiser in both retail liquor and political ads. I recall him running full page ads filled with coupons throughout the 90s besides his 44 Napergate ads and umpteen other political ads.

I can't see such a drastic decision being made because a lowly employee complained about her work load or meeting a deadline for a Napergate ad when it could easily be postponed to the next edition as Ameena so eloquently pointed out.

My feeling is there was an enormous about of pressure applied on the Naperville Sun by City Officials to take this draconian action against a retailer trying to clear his name from ridiculous and fabricated charges. City officials obviously had the motive! He was smearing their reputation with facts, graphs, documents, cancelled checks, you name it, ad after ad! Whatever he could find! He was embarrassing them! Of course they would have the motive.

No one in the Naperville Sun would have a motive to cut the hand off that feeds it. That is utter nonsense! Even a lonely or middle level employee acting in cahoots with City Officials would have been stopped by higher level Sun Executives and brought to his/her senses!

I am going to guess the call came straight from Mayor Samuel Macrane to the Editor/Publisher at the time demanding these ads be halted immediately. He was the guy that destroyed all the financial records that contained the cost of the Napergate Case. So we already know he was very bold and dictatorial.(In addition that IABTF Liquor Organization ruled he was a fascist or something of that nature...can't remember all this bloggin info). Other top ranking City Officials like Prosecutor Cuneo or maybe even Chief Dial could have made a call or two to another Sun employee or top executive.

The Napergate Man was systematically and methodolically exposing a conspiracy ad by ad. Of course City Officials wanted to stop his surgical approach. And they thought they succeeded.

Until.......

Once he published his own ad and began distributing it hand to hand with a focus on City Hall, apparently City Officials realized their demands on the Naperville Sun backfired. The situation got much worse and the Naperville Sun was losing at least a 1000 dollars a week in revenue since he usually ran 2 ads a week. Sometimes he repeated his Napergate ad. Other times he complemented his political ad with a retail ad.

My guess is there was an incredible amount of pressure put from many City Officials on all executives of the Naperville Sun to crush these Napergate Series of ads. In the end the City Officials failed and the Napergate ads crushed them! Sometimes as history has shown, even getting them elected out of office.

In conclusion I don't buy that theory that it was perceived pressure. The Napergate Man chose his words very clearly because he did not want to burn bridges with the Sun. He just wanted to find a way to put more pressure on the Sun than city officials could in hopes one day he would be able to advertise again instead of being engaged in hand to hand warfare(distribution). Apparently he succeeded with that Napergate VI which is being searched for. I kind of remember it faintly but would love to see it again as I don't think I was comprehending this case as it was ongoing as I am now. I think this bloggin with each other is what helps one to get to the bottom of this very complicated and difficult to understand political case. It had nothing to do with a bottle of Korbel Champagne that never even came to a trial after being continued for 9 times before a Judge finally threw it out...I mean drank it...lol!!!

Note from Ted, host:

I could say I believe a second gunman had to be involved in the assassination of JFK. That doesn't make it true, either.

Host,

For the record, I am not a civil rights lawyer or either a libel and slander lawyer.

But what puzzles me in this case is why his Napergate ads had to go though so much review before being published.

My understanding is it was simply a tough political ad. He was paying for it. It stated that it was his ad. My gut feeling is he would be liable for any misinformation, slander or libel and not the Naperville Sun. I am sure there was a disclaimer somewhere in the ad that it was not Sun opinion or the contents were the sole and full responsibility of the advertiser. In a rare incidence where there was a blatant lie or a defamation of character that the Naperville Sun knew about with 100% certainty while allowing it to be published, I would predicate that the Sun may/would have some exposure. But it would have to be blatant and deliberate on the part of the Sun.

So the question is, why would the Naperville Sun require these ads to go through such rigorous hoops and tests including sending to corporate headquarters in California after already being reviewed locally by editors and attorneys for the Sun, in addition to having been previously reviewed by attorneys for the Napergate Man? It seems to me like it was a complete overkill of sorts!

I am just thinking out loud this overkill was probably because City Officials had already began complaining to the Sun weeks before Napergate V became their "FINAL STAND OF TOLERANCE." Most probably the complaints started from the moment Napergate I popped up as they knew with little doubt what was on the horizon. I recall the Napergate Man issuing a threat to those who charged him wrongfully to resign or "the next ad was on the way." I guess we know he was just not threatening. He delivered week after week until officials felt it had become unbearable. And Sun officials wanted to take the extra step of being careful. Normally no political ad is subjected to such a microscopic level of review.

Keep in mind all he was pretty much saying is "He did not do it." Every defendant in court appears before a judge initially and says "He did not do it" whether he did it or did not do it by pleading "not guilty." It is hard to be sued just because you said, "You ain't done it." Yes, the Napergate Man took it a step further and accused the Mayor, Prosecutor and certain police of fabricating evidence against him. But this is technically the same as saying, "I did not do it" but in a more precise or mean spirited way. But of course we now all know why he had such unusual confidence. "He knew he ain't never done it." He knew city officials were lying but unfortunately the rest of us did not know for sure until the IABTF ruling which was followed by numerous court rulings including those of the Appellant Courts.

In summary I feel from reading all the blogs and especially Ameena's wonderful late night post, as the host already noted by calling it amazing, that the pressure was REAL and not "just" PERCEIVED. There was simply too much at stake here for a retailer to have his right to advertise revoked based on just PERCEPTION....IT HAD TO BE REALITY! No doubt in my mind!!! My two cents worth this early morning before I head to work!

Note from Ted, host:

Just to clairify, I recall the editors had nothing to do with the Napergate ads. Paid advertising, handled by the ad department. There were no local attorneys, the company's attorneys were in California.

I think because it was the first time ad people had to run copy by legal on a regular basis, that was part of it. The hassle, that is.

wow, you people all seem to have too much time on your hands, so much conjecture, patting each other on the back, congratulating this or that . did anyone actually live in this town when this all happened ? i did. i was just a youth of about 17-18 years old. i remember this man and his liquor store. my recollection is this was a place where it was very easy to walk in underage and buy liquor, i did it, friends of mine did it. there was nothing remarkable about this man or his store in fact, i remember him as very strange and maybe a bit too friendly to the young ladies. the police and others should have gone after him. they should have gone after me too ! everyone here seems to forgive the crimes, and focus on the the means. when does the end justify the means ? i guess this town has been overrun by liberals moving here from new york, california, etc... i am guessing most of you would do away with guantanamo, waterboarding ? you are all probably firmly behind the smoking ban, universal health care, higher taxes, barak osama obama, even HILLARY CLINTON ! i understand that you are a very vocal minority, but there is a very strong silent majority that is ready to be heard. we just have real lives to lead.

Host or Moderator,

You just posted a blatantly false blog by a man who most probably knew he was lying.

Let me present the proof that D. Bone is fabricating evidence.

Directly from the unanimous decision of the Illinois Appellant Court.

"Other evidence presented in mitigation, such as the large number of confiscated IDs turned over to the Naperville Police(206) as compared to the other 104 Naperville liquor licenses(38) and also the testimony of a Naperville Police officer which would have stated that Esmail's enforcement efforts were exemplary as compared with other licenses, was erroneously excluded at the local hearing."

Basically the 104 licensees confiscated .365 IDs per establishment or about one third of an ID during this period.

Esmail averaged 206 IDs during this period.

Thus Esmail was averaging 564 times the average rate of IDs compared to the other liquor licensees in town during this period. So D.Bone would have a 564 greater times of being arrested if he went to Extra Value Liquors than any other store in town. And we are to believe he chose to go to the stongest link of the chain to get his booze. Plus he admitted he was a law breaker when he was a minor. So now we have a man who lies and breaks the law by trying to buy booze when he was 17 and we are suppose to believe him...very hilarious!

If it was so easy to walk in Extra Value Liquors and buy booze if you were a minor, other liquor establishment must have been selling to children and babies...d. bones remark is a blatant unbelievable lie!

And we know the Napergate Man also won the National Kylix Award for having the most outstanding "Responsible Drinking Sales Campaign" in the nation against minors, like d. bone, on March 24, 1992 at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas.

Furthermore, the Beverage Alcohol Market Report of NY praised Extra Value Liquors for having the most outstanding program against minors in the country.( I have the details but will not publish them in order to keep this post brief and focused)

I believe that post by d.bone is absolute slander and libel and I am shocked the Host or Moderator would allow it to be published.

I personally believe a blogger who publishes such falsehoods should be banned permanently from blogging to send a message loud and clear that such lies will not be permitted or tolerated on these blogs.

Not that anyone would believe such blatant falsehoods unless they were retarded!

I hope the Host/Moderator take immediate and appropriate action. This is not opinion that d.bone is expressing. It is a pure factual lie!

It is nice to know he could be a bit friendly to the young ladies knowing the kind of hectic life he had which included owning 6 businesses, living in courtrooms, attending City Hall meetings, being involved in numerous rallies, amongst numerous other good deeds he had done for society and in particular Naperville! Many men on this blog including Randy have described him as friendly also. When was being a bit friendly declared a crime? I thought it was nice to be a bit friendly.

Note from Ted, host:

The commenter is standing by his claims and says it's not a lie.

what exactly was false ? that i really didn't walk in there and buy from this man ? were you there ? i am disappointed that my own TRUE personal account is chastised as though it is a falsehood with no proof other than an over zealous zealot. could he have confiscated more i.d.s because in the past more underage kids found it easy to buy from him ? and now that the gig was up, and he had to crack down ? how absurd your reasoning, if i kill a man, and then perform good deeds, does it admonish me from the murder ? i can only comment on my own TRUE personal account of this story, and to have you, AMEENA find it offensive just confirms my earlier post, that this town, or blog has gone to the dogs. and TED, can you please tell me why you would remove my post ?

d.bone,

OK, d.bone, it's re-published, and no doubt we'll have plenty of spirited debate about the veracity of your post.

Host Ted -

Since you unpublished d. bone's post, I have no frame of reference for what Ameena is obviously concerned with in her most recent post (Jan. 28th at 10:50 AM).

While I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the post wasn’t unpublished for a simple math error, I also believe Ameena's call to ban d.bone is rather draconian.

I think he should continue to be allowed to post and Ameena and everyone else can make their own determinations regarding his credibility.

And Ameena –

“So now we have a man who lies and breaks the law by trying to buy booze when he was 17 and we are suppose to believe him...very hilarious!”

Everyone’s broken some law whether it’s been speeding, stealing, taxes, or even attempting to buy booze while underage. This is especially true at such a young age. The phrase that comes to mind is “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

T.B.

Note from Ted, host.

OK, upon further review d.bone's comment is being re-published. He's expressing a view that's obviously in the minority, but he's standing by his claim that it's not a lie.

Good Afternoon Bloggers,

I would like to start off by stating that blog by d. bone that Extra Value liquors sells to minors is a complete and utter fabrication. I have been to his stores many times the last 20 years and never seen him sell to a minor. I have seen him and his employees always carding even people up to 50. So I don't know what ax d. bone has to grind with this man but his post is false...very utterly false. Not good for the reputation of the thread!

I read that last few days that everyone disagrees with me, and that the puck stops at the top. For argument's sake let me agree with the numerous bloggers who came to that conclusion.

But if the puck stops at the top who is really at the top. Is Chief David Dial really the top man here? No, he is not! I believe he reports to both the City Manager and the Mayor. OK, I expect you to correct me and say not the Mayor but the City Council. The reason I said Mayor is because if the Mayor is in the majority he pretty much controls the Chief.

All a Mayor has to do is rally the 4 other council members he is aligned with, call a vote and the Chief is fired. It is that simple! So who is really on top! The Mayor not the Chief of Police as long as he has the majority which has always been the case in at least the last 30 years in Naperville! Mr. Basim Esmail came closest to ever upsetting the situation in the City Council but he never got more than 4 endorsees elected at one time. Maybe 7 or 8 over 3 elections but never more than 4 in one election or sitting on one council. I am sure of that! Actually positive!

But let us be clear again for fear of accusing the innocent. Mayor George Pradel was not involved when this Napergate Mess started. He was not involved when 5-10 police officers were following orders of the Prosecutor and most likely the former Mayor. Mayor Samuel Macrane was the one fingered by Basim Esmail, the IABTF and even some courts. I think Basim Esmail asked him to resign in his second or third ads. He did not call for Chief Dial to resign. He knew who the culprit was. He also asked Prosecutor Cuneo to resign several times. Again he never called on Chief Dial to resign. These 2 guys appear to have been interfering with police officers. As I said before in my first blog, I strongly believe there were some winks and nods going on.

The IABTF accused Mayor Samuel Macrane of running a fascist government in town. Chief Dial had no power against Mayor Macrane. Macrane had the 5 necessary votes to fire him. So Macrane was the top gun and not Chief Dial. The puck had to stop at Macrane. Macrane was probably working with Cuneo and those 5-10 police officers behind Chief Dial's back.

The IABTF report did not accuse any Captains or even Sergeants of the fine Naperville Police Dept.. Lowly police officers that were in my opinion hoodwinked by Cuneo and Macrane.

So the bottom line if I am wrong and you are all right that the puck stops at the top, we have to understand the top was Mayor Samuel Macrane and not Chief David Dial. Chief Dial had no power to fire Mayor Samuel Macrane or stop his fascist rule as is described in the now famous IABTF report that is being discussed constantly on this blog. Prosecutor Cuneo was probably a co-conspirator to Mayor Macrane. He led the prosecution of Basim Esmail from beginning to end. He directed all these outside attorneys from 2 firms numbering at least 5 and possibly more. Prosecutor Cuneo wanted to make a case out of a sting operator being in possession of a bottle of Korbel Champagne for less than one minute while in the performance of the furtherance of the Liquor Control Act as the Appellant Court ruled.

How did Chief Dial get involved on this one? It was Cuneo who charged Mr. Esmail. Not Chief Dial! I doubt Chief Dial knew Mr. Esmail was charged but of course I am not sure on this fact.

Who wanted to try this Korbel Bottle Case(which is only one of the numerous charges in this case) in Dupage County Court? Of course it was Prosecutor Cuneo with Mayor Samuel Macrane who doubled as the Liquor Commissioner pushing him all the way. How did Chief Dial suddenly get involved? He wasn't! How can he be held accountable? He can't! It was Prosecutor Cuneo who got those 9 continuances in court and let it drag on for nearly 3 years before he surrendered without an attempt and the Judge dismissed the case. ( I do not know if the Judge ended up drinking that bottle as one blogger noted...I think he deserved to after what Cuneo put him thru. But if police procedure was followed which I believe was, it was returned to Mr. Esmail or his store from "evidence.")

You may ask why did Cuneo not try this case! Most likely because he found out after he charged Mr. Esmail, that he had the whole incident on video tape showing it was nothing but a "sting." He not only tagged the bottle of Korbel for recovery but the marked money he gave the minor and retrieved from him/her. He had the goods on Cuneo in such a way if Cuneo would have proceeded Esmail would have fried him like the Duke Lacrosse players fried their prosecutor. Maybe even worse! So from a legal strategy Cuneo did the only thing he could possibly do. Drag this thing and hope Esmail would run out of money, become exhausted or settle the case for a plea of "anything." Esmail and his attorney(Mr. Brian Telander for this portion of the case) were steadfast and challenged him to a jury trial. Cuneo did not take the offer or more appropriately the bait. He was much smarter than that Duke Lacrosse prosecutor. I don't want anyone to think I support Cuneo. I am just saying from a legal standpoint he knew how to get out of the mess he got himself into and avoid going to jail. He got out of the mess by dismissing the case! Simple as that!

So in some ironic twist in this specific part of the case the big winner was Cuneo...not Esmail. Cuneo was risking everything with this prosecution. He was risking his reputation, credibility, taxpayer money and above all his personal liberty due to potential malicious and conspiratorial prosecution. Esmail was risking nothing but a guaranteed victory. Getting off the subject just for a moment, that is why there is absolutely no comparison with the Dick Furstenau Case. Mr. Fursteanau really has nothing. Eyewitnesses these days carry very little weight in court after all the exonerations due to DNA evidence in the last decade of over 100 convicted murderers nationwide. In the Napergate Case, Mr. Esmail had the Korbel bottle he tagged and RETRIEVED, the money he marked, the videotape of the sting, the minor he used, a manager in the store who was observing the sting being performed, and of course himself. He had everything! Cuneo had NOTHING! Not one witness and not one iota of evidence and he brings malicious and fabricated charges.(something we now know but did not know then). Is anyone still wondering why the IABTF made this now famous and often repeated statement:

"The penalties invoked by Naperville against this retailer have been ridiculously harsh and designed to put him out of business even for the first offense. The evidence seems to indicate harassment, discrimination, and trumped up charges and testimony. The conduct exhibited by the government of the City on Naperville, the City Attorney and some members of its police department is conspiratorial and is reminiscent of fascism."

Yes, in fascist countries you try to silence your political opponents by bringing false charges and imprisoning them. It is difficult to argue with the IABTF just looking at this one charge involving the infamous bottle of Korbel. There were a total of a dozen charges in this conspiracy. Again those are not my words but those of the IABTF.
I feel confident in using them since it is a multi billion dollar organization that was never sued in 15 long years for that apparently accurate statement.

So in a nutshell people really need to back off of trying to implicate Chief David Dial. That is so ridiculous! This was a political conspiracy from beginning to end. Chief Dial is not a political person. He is a top cop doing his job of protecting the citizens of Naperville. When his boss former Mayor Samuel Macrane yanks some of his officers away from him and gets them involved with conspiratorial activities what could he do. If he interfered, he would be fired by Mayor Macrane who was the real boss in this conspiracy. All the blame falls on his shoulders...all of it. Again he was also the Liquor Commissioner who appointed the Judge(hearing officer he may have been called) who kangarooed Mr. Esmail. Of course it was a Kangaroo Trial as everyone is saying on these blogs including the Naperville Lawyer. But what did Chief Dial have to do with this trial. Not one iota of anything!

The judge for this so called Kangaroo Trial was an employee of the Park District. I don't recall his name but I am almost positive he was from the Park District. Chief Dial has no authority over the Park District. If you want to hold someone responsible for that Park District employee presiding over a Kangaroo Trial, look for his boss in the Park District. Not Chief Dial!

I was very disappointed when I saw long time bloggers I deemed pro city for many months turn on Chief Dial. That was what I was afraid of when that gal guessed Chief Dial. I knew it would escalate in such an unfair way.

This is a very complicated case that lasted 2 decades. People are clueless as to what went on. Yes, former Mayors Margaret Price and Chester Ribicki have a lot to also do with the discrimination and harassment of Mr. Esmail. And yes they lost a big battle against Mr. Esmail in the Supreme Court in the late 80s. And yes they were accused of abusing their power and discretion. But again Chief Dial was not involved. And this may surprise you, neither was former Police Chief James Teal involved in any way. Chief Teal was a friend to Mr. Esmail and even had some kind of working relationship with Mr. Esmail thru a company the former Chief owned called Odd Jobbers. Mr. Esmail used Chief Teal's company frequently. They had an excellent relationship. I knew Chief Teal personally and he once told me he was working with Mr.Esmail to try to exonerate the 3 innocent Hispanics convicted of killing 11 year old Jenine Nicarico of Naperville in 1983. Most of the sections in Esmail's political ads regarding the Nicarico case were directly dictated from former Chief Teal. Chief Jim Teal felt these guys were innocent from Day 1. He could not find anyone to agree with him in the early stages except Mr. Esmail and one state trooper, if I recall correctly with a first name of Sam. These 3 guys hounded Tribune Columnist Eric Zorn until he took the case and the rest is history. Their convictions were overturned for those who may not know and they are free men after being incarcerated up to a dozen years each! The real alleged killer Brian Dugan has yet to be tried a quarter century later! Shows you what a top rate legal system we have in Dupage!

So to summarize those in command of the fine Naperville Police Dept. including both Chiefs had nothing to do with the persecution of Mr. Esmail. All the 3 former Mayors did but not the current Mayor Pradel. I have reason to believe the current Mayor and Mr. Esmail have a very good relationship.

Mayor Pradel is a very fair Mayor. Many of the Napergate Ads that took place after the liquor proceedings were against positions Mayor Pradel stood for. Especially the Spring Green and SW Gate ads. The big difference between the current Mayor and the former Mayors is the current Mayor can accept defeat. Yes, Mr. Esmail led a large contingent of supporters to City Hall and defeated Mayor Pradel and former Mayor Price by a 7-2 vote in that Final Spring Green vote.

This current Mayor is a phenomenal Mayor. He is the first Mayor not to retaliate against Mr. Esmail liquor license(s) because of his politics in almost 30 years. All the other former Mayors retaliated against Mr. Esmail's liquor license.

After that famous ATT battle that took place in which Mr. Esmail reversed the vote from 7-0 to 0-7, I suddenly read in the newspaper he had a sale to a minor. I was thinking what a coincidence! Any cop can get any liquor establishment for a sale to a minor. It is just too easy! So many minors use fake IDs and when a cop stops them the fake ID gets buried behind their car seat sometimes never to be found. So a bad cop will charge a retailer by saying he did not card the minor sometimes knowing the minor used a fake ID or sometimes not wanting to make the effort to find the ID buried in the seat of the car somewhere. A good cop will not charge when a fake ID is used and the only crime is the retailer was unable to detect the ID was fraudulent. Some fraudulent IDs look more authentic than real IDs made by governmental agencies.

As a police officer, I would never charge a retailer who confiscates 6 times as many IDs as all other establishment combined for not being able to detect one fake ID after detecting 206 or so. Not my numbers but the Illinois Appellant's numbers.(provided to us by Ameena but which I am positive are accurate) So if police officers are focusing their energy to nail the toughest retailer in town if not the nation, instead of the 104 other establishments who only got 38 IDs, that tells anyone there is a conspiracy going on. The IABTF was 100% correct. Now why would any police officer be targeting this man. Yes, it was a conspiracy! A big time conspiracy that sickens me as a police officer. It brings a bad name to the so many decent police officers in all of Chicagoland and specifically those in Naperville Police Dept.

Since I don't work for the dept., I just have to believe that Chief Dial punished these 5-10 police officers. He is a man of conscience. He is a very good man.He is a great and ethical leader. As a police officer I am against Internal Affairs matters being secret and confidential. But all the police departments in the Chicagoland area, to the best of my knowledge do not publicize their Internal Affairs investigations and in particular their findings. Let us not single the Naperville Police Dept. for any wrong doing for operating in the same way as all other departments in the State of Illinois.

If people want these Internal Investigations to be public they are either going to have to march to City Hall or the State Capitol and have the laws changed. I am not an attorney so I don't know where one has to go to change laws but I think one of those 2 places would be the right place or at least a good start.

Anyway, I just want to conclude regardless of what anyone is saying on these blogs, that Chief David Dial, was never involved in any wrong doing as pertaining to Napergate. He has been around a very long time and he has nothing to do with this mess or fiasco as some call it. The culprits have been identified repeatedly as the 3 former Mayors of Naperville, Prosecutor Francis Cuneo, City Attorney Michael Roth and approximately 5- 10 low level Naperville Police Officers. I am not naming the police officers because I sincerely believe they were innocent victims of a conspiracy that they had no real knowledge of was occurring, and were being used as pawns without the knowledge of either Police Chief current or former. It is totally nonsensical to believe that Police Chief Jim Teal who was a good friend of Basim Esmail would turn his cops loose on him. Not possible! Bloggers need to drink some more coffee in the mornin before bloggin! Sorry it took me so long to respond but I do have a job and family!

Ameena,

First, I want to say I think your blogs are always insightful and factual. You do a great job writing your entries and you have a lot of credibility with the readers of this blog...that is why I was surprised that you would make fun of mentally disabled individuals by saying..."Not that anyone would believe such blatant falsehoods unless they were retarded!" Posted by: Ameena | January 28, 2008 10:50 AM. I assume you were just trying to make a point and did not mean any harm by your comment, but I am sure there are other ways to make that point without insulting a portion of our population that do contribute to our community in many ways. I have a different perspective as I have worked with people who are both mentally and physically disabled and I had a cousin who had Down Syndrome. He passed away years ago. I know you are admired on this blog by many, that is why I wanted to point this out as I want to give you a chance to retract that portion of your last entry. At least I hope you will consider doing that.

Take care,

Kevin

Host,
I just want to thank you for deleting that libelous blog by d. bone. That was a false allegation. It was sickening. But Thank God that false allegation was from a loser and not someone in authority.

That is exactly how Napergate started. From false allegations or charges coming from people in authority. I can only be thankful that d. bone is a big time loser with no authority. If he felt like picking on liquor licensees he should have mentioned them all and left Extra Value Liquors as last since it is by far the strictest in town.

If he was in fact able to get booze so easily across town, why specifically name Extra Value Liquors. Why not name some of the other places? Because he has a political agenda of sorts. When I was of AGE I could never get cigs or liquor at that place when I simply forgot my I.D. I have to wonder how he got liquor there when I could not even though they knew I was of AGE and had seen my ID on many prior occassions.

And does d.bone even know what years the Napergate Man owned that store? If he does not know than he should have not publish that filth. In case he does not know it was owned by someone before the Napergate Man and it has been owned by someone after him. So if someone can't pin a time and date and show some proof that is libelous.

That is like me saying d. bone raped me. You have to believe me host. Would you publish that garbage? So I hope next time, Mr. Host, that we never see a post like that for the 5 minutes I saw it. Thanks for getting rid of it so quickly!

And one thing that has never been mentioned anywhere but I know from my experiences there from his employees and wathcing TV, is that his employess are given 20 dollars for each fake ID confiscated and it doubles for each ID after that in the same week. Employees took pride in getting fake IDs in that place. This was also mentioned on a CBS documentary and an NBC documentary. I am surprised the Napergate Man forgot to mention it in his Napergate Ads or maybe I just overlooked it when reading them.

I thank Ameena for immediately providing the evidence to prove his allegations are false.

And I thank Mr. Police Officer who must have noticed that libelous post and pointed it out before he even started his letter.

I just hope in the future the host can catch these lies before they are posted as they are so blatantly false. As Police Officer said someone must have an ax to grind or an agenda to implement to publish such filth.

I also agree with Ameena that someone who publishes information knowing it is false, should be thrown off these threads. This thread has been exceptional. It has been based on fact, proof and opinion! Not lies!!!

One just has to look at all the effort Mr. Police Officer puts in his post to make sure he is accurate, honest and credible. He commends good cops and condemns bad cops. He thinks before he writes. He is so analytical and insightful!

He does not deny there was a conspiracy but he tries to pin it at the right parties while trying to protect the innocent.

Most impressive was his statement that he would not even bother charging a guy like the Napergate Man for an innocent mistake because he has that long and proven record.

Police Officer wrote a great letter. I should end here and let the bloggers read it. If I can steal a quote from Ted, "I don't want to detract from your post by elaborating on it, just wanted to say well done."

Note from Ted:

Well, Marilyn, you may not be happy now, because d.bone is sticking by his story, saying it happened before the crackdown on underage buyers of alcohol.

thanks ted. also police officer. my story dates back over 20 years ago. now if you want to call me a liar as well, then what shall i call you ? there are a few good names i could think of... anyhoo, this is what happened to me, and my recollection of this store and this man. i admit to buying beer underage, i had a pretty darn good i.d. AMEENA. i can only say if were a cop at the time, i would have been checking this guy out, it always seemed a bit shady over there. you have to remember there wasn't a whole lot happening in naperville at the time, not alot of bars, restaurants, night life. i doubt we were even in the top 10 city for dui's back then. i will let you all get back to your arguing and conjecture.

Kevin,
Of course I retract that! I slipped up in the speed of responding to a false allegation that infuriated me.

My apologies to you and all others I may have offended.

I will try to choose my words carefully and review my letters before posting.

I was at work and did that one hastily without reviewing.

Sorry,
Ameena

PS. I should have said idiots or something like that. I will be more careful. Thanks for pointing it out Kevin!

Host,
I just want to express an opinion that you may be bordering on libel with that d. bone post.

Where is his proof? Where is the time and date? Where is the proof of who owned that place at the time?

His statement was not an opinion! It was not fact! It was not documented. It is pure libel especially in the context of the overwhelming evidence we have about the Napergate Man and his polices. His performance is documented for 20 years at that location.

I can assure you if that was in print media you would have a lawsuit at your door tomorrow morning. Yes, blogs are untested but why are you testing the waters with something you know is so risky and most probably false.

I find it ironic that Napergate ads were so well scrutinized for libel and slander and now you suddenly have a double standard.
You made the right decision the first time. Why are you reversing yourself? Your gut instinct to remove it the first time was absolutely right.

Ask d. bone to provide his real name and publish it. I dare him to do that. The Napergate Man would take him to the laudromat and leave him with not even the clothes on his back with that remark.

Yes, if someone is going to make a remark like that, he should provide his name, address and phone number. If the Sun tolerates that without a name, I suspect the Sun will be testing a defamation lawsuit in the near future by playing with such a red hot flaming fire.

I know the Napergate Man had to take responsibility for all his ads and what he said. He took full responsibilty that he was not libeling anyone. He published his responsibility by pubslishing his name. He was ready for a lawsuit. No one ever sued him because he had his facts straight and backed them up.

I urge you to remove that post.

Sorry this is messy and quick. I am at work and could only afford a minute here. But I was really disappointed with the Sun for allowing such a post.

Response from Ted, host:

Duly noted, but I disagree with you. He makes a claim about one incident that he alleges occurred 20 years ago. Perhaps the crackdown on underage buying of alcohol started shortly after incidents like this. Surely it's possible that of the thousands of transactions that would have occurred at such an establishment each year, one or more might have been to an underage person who deceived the seller. I don't see how this person who claims to have illegally deceived the seller libels the seller--it's not like he claims to have walked in, appeared obviously underage, and obtained alcohol with no ID. And in the context of the overwhelming number of posts on this site explaining the store owner's diligence in enforcing legal alcohol sales, I don't see how this one claim detracts from the obvious overwhelming practice of the store over the years.

Host,

d. bone is a complete fraud.

Just notice in the first blog he could buy booze so easily.

After being attacked and called out, he suddenly says he had a "pretty darn good i.d."

So if in fact he bought liquor he defrauded the Napergate Man by using a very "pretty darn good i.d." Who is the criminal here?
d. bone who is defrauding or the Napergate Man's empoyee who may have been taken with a very "pretty darn good i.d."

That is a completely different story than his first story. He is lying. It is obvious!

That is pure filth not fit for publication even in a toilet.

The Napergate Man has a record of confiscating more IDs than almost any retailer in the country if not the most. No one ever said he could not miss a fake ID. He caught more fake IDs than any other establishment.

d. bones intent was to slander the Napergate Man annonymously.

I can not believe you reversed yourself. I think you need to have someone else look at this wrongfully serious decision you just made!

You did say you were up very late last night. Maybe you are not thinking straight today. I am not sure but very disappointed.
Must get back to work! Don't like using company time but could not control myself this one time!

Note from host:

One claim perceived as critical of Napergate man, and look at the response it triggers. Like you said, the claim doesn't even indicate the seller did anything wrong, it was the buyer who admits engaging in illegal and deceptive practice.

Naperville lawyer and Marshall: Marshall, Ted's already answered your rant so I'll leave it there. Naperville Lawyer, I think you need to chill out a little. If d bone wants to post a boneheaded comment like that, theat' his problem. So he got over on someone at the store - according to him. It certainly wasn't the fault of the owner. If d bone wants to enlighten us with his HS antics, so be it.

i find it amazing that some of you learned people out there are calling for my head. are you really a lawyer ? naperville lawyer. please point out my libel or slander to me as i am just a naive hayseed. i have related MY incident that not one of you can either confirm or deny it. how can you ? i also bought beer at other liquor stores in town, but i do have a good recollection of this one. if i still had my fake i.d. i would be happy to share with you folks, but it was confiscated down in champaign-urbana. just MY story. now, i already admitted the cops should have gone after me, and i did have a good fake i.d. but i was 17. so, remember on february 5. VOTE FOR RON PAUL ! and marshall. you should take it down a notch or two.

Below are d. bones 2 posts. The first very offensive and untrue.
The second not as offensive as the first but contradicting the first, indicating d. bone may have been caught lying and tried to repair his lie. My comments are below his 2 posts:

******************************************************************

i did. i was just a youth of about 17-18 years old. i remember this man and his liquor store. my recollection is this was a place where it was very easy to walk in underage and buy liquor, i did it, friends of mine did it. there was nothing remarkable about this man or his store in fact, i remember him as very strange and maybe a bit too friendly to the young ladies. the police and others should have gone after him.

******************************************************************

thanks ted. also police officer. my story dates back over 20 years ago. now if you want to call me a liar as well, then what shall i call you ? there are a few good names i could think of... anyhoo, this is what happened to me, and my recollection of this store and this man. i admit to buying beer underage, i had a pretty darn good i.d. AMEENA. i can only say if were a cop at the time, i would have been checking this guy out, it always seemed a bit shady over there.

******************************************************************

Some comments.
1. It is not good to write when you are emotional as Marilyn, Marshall and the Naperville Lawyer were. Ameena appeared to do a better job of keeing her emotions intact and presenting facts. I was emotional but decided to wait till I cooled off!

2.D. Bone's first post was a blatant attmept to slander the Napergate Man. I am not sure Jim the moderator saw the first post as he did not refer to it. He just made it sound like you can just walk in there and buy booze at age 17 and no one would even care to blink an eye. Just ridiculous!

3.I was a customer of that Bailey Rd store and ran into the owner several times about 20 years ago the time D. Bone is now alleging.
At that time, they were using a still camera to take pictures of not only the customer, but also his ID and the date...3 pics with one shot. That is how intense their carding was 20 years ago. At that time their license was revoked and they were awaiting a Supreme Court decision that came I believe in 1988. It was a do or die situation for them. They were under so much pressure not to make a mistake due to the predicament they were in, that it defies logic that they would just be selling to minors.

4.They not only had a still camera that they used on every person looking under 40, but a back up video survellance system.

5. The situation that d. bone described in his first post could never have happened at that store. That is what outraged people including myself but I chose to wait till I got home and cooled down.

6.Everyone had a gut instinct that d. bone was not being truthful.
He in fact was not as he admitted in his next blog that suddenly he had a "pretty darn good ID." Suddenly only when he realized that no one would buy his first story he said he had a "pretty darn good ID." Basically he admitted he lied in the first post. I hope Moderator Jim read both the first and second post and caught the lie.

7. I think there has to be some sensitiviy here. This is not an ordinary store. This is a unique store that had its license revoked twice over an innocent/sting or sale to a minor. Something no other retailer would get more than a slap on the wrist for or a small fine.

8. Accusing this specific retailer of a false sale is much worse than accusing any other retailer of a false sale due to the hell he has been thru in the past. The hell he has been thru was never related to his carding but to his political views.

9.D. bone makes ridiculous remarks like the man is very strange, maybe a bit too friendly, police have gone after him and it seems a bit shady out there. All made up and untrue remarks from my numerous observations. I don't think he is talking about the store on Bailey Rd because it was nothing but a class act when the Napergate Man owned it and ran it.

10. I am assuming in the haste Jim, the moderator, overlooked the first post and would at least consider deleting it which is not laughable like the second post. The first post is also contradicted by his second posting which indicates he was not being truthful.

Since D. Bone picked a time frame of 20 years back, I can assure you that nothing was as he said 20 he years back. Everyone was very tight at that establishment. If he said 30 years back, I could not dispute his story as it was owned by Southland Corporation and I have no direct evidence either way as I lived in North Carolina.

But 18-22 yeas ago I lived in Naperville and I can dispute D. Bones allegations. The store was taking still photographs from 3 angles. They were interrogating customers. They were confiscating IDs.

Yes someone with a great fake ID can fool the best retailer. But going in there as he desribed in his first blog was a blatant lie. I urge the moderator and host to delete both of his posts but at least the first one since it is not only a lie but contradicted by the second one in essence exposing his lie.

Note from host:

d.bone continues to stand by his story.

d.bone is done with this blog. over and out.

Host Ted and Moderator Jim,
It's me! Maryann, yet again peeking at you guys! I am the one that likes to go to dead posts and liven them up a bit. You probably remember me as the Road Warrior Girl who at the time had never ever heard of Napergate. I was having fun there chatting with you guys and succeeded in livening up the debate until Joe came along. I turned it over to Joe and the thread died again. I thought Joe was bad, but he really looks like a saint compared to this d. bone character. I noticed this thread went from extremely active to DEAD as soon as d.bone was allowed to utter his words! That is why I am here. I like the challenge of livening up a quiet thread something you guys already know!

Let me give my analysis after spending over an hour reading all these unique intellectual posts from both sides of the opposition on this Napergate thread! Police Officer and Mrs. Police Officer always seem to present an opposing view but they are highly respected. They are calm and articulate. Police Officer went against EVERYONE that has been bloggin regarding the issue of the "Puck Stops at Chief Dial." After reading his blog, I began to feel the puck does not stop at Chief Dial but at the former Mayor. I have no clue where it stops but he lays down a very strong analysis that one has to respect whether he is wrong or not. He seems only to attack people if they have been convicted in court or condemned by some reputable organization. He does not upset anyone, just like Mrs. Police Officer never upsets anyone. Great people, representing our Police Family. I must say, I look forward and enjoy reading their posts. I wish they both would write more as they have so much knowledge and can articulate. I do respect the police much more after reading their posts. They need to keep writing to build a bridge between civilians and police and help improve relations.

Police Officer is not afraid to tell it as it is. Mrs. of the Police Officer seems to hold back just a bit. She seems a little shocked from stories like Napergate and seems to not want to comment. She needs to remember most of us don't have first hand knowledge but we depend on credible sources like Police Officer, Ameena and Randy to make our comments.

Now as far as this d.bone guy, unlike everyone else I have no direct or indirect evidence to support or refute his 2nd claim in his second post. Of course he refutes his first post with his second post. I spent a lot of time discussing with you why I left Greta.wire and never returned. It is because of bloggers like d.bone. And I do not think I am the only one who left Greta.wire to come here because of d.bone types. He single-handedly killed this thread the last 11 hours. Not one post in 11 hours after being ever so busy! I should take that back of who killed the thread. I think your tolerance of him killed the thread. Hopefully only temporarily!

I think Marilyn said it best and it seems everyone missed her point. Now let me elaborate on Marilyn's point to see if I can resolve this controversy. If Marilyn had said "Host Ted raped me" and I am sticking by my story. And repeated that a few times, would Moderator Jim allow this allegation to be published? I think you both know with certainty, Jim would never allow such a comment to be published. Do we agree, Mr. Host and Mr. Moderator!

The bloggers are anonymous so their attacking of each other is not the same as them attacking a real person like Host Ted or the Napergate Man. Those are real guys! People know how to find them! Someone may want to find Host Ted and do some harm to him for "raping Marilyn." Someone may want to find the Napergate Man and do harm to him because his "daughter was killed in a DUI accident 20 years ago" and he suddenly heard the booze was flowing freely out of Extra Value Liquors at the time his daughter was killed. In the case of Ted, we have a false allegation of "rape." In the case of the Napergate Man, we have a false allegation of "2nd degree murder."

I understand the outrage of the supporters of the Napergate Man. And I believe you guys acted in haste and made the wrong decision because his supporters were ranting as Jim correctly stated instead of writing calmly. Obviously they lost their cool and were writing from workplaces instead of their homes as they indicated. They were obviously under some kind of stress or pressure as none of them sounded like themselves except of course that Ameena girl who is always armed with facts. It seems like all her weapons are stored in her Blackberry that she carries with her in case something like this erupts! Marvelous young lady!

I am certain d. bone's first post was a false allegation. Everyone can see he changed his story in his second post after he initially lied in his first post. The great Fake ID he used never came into play until his SECOND post after he knew no would buy his first falsehood. I think both of you are ignoring this important revealing fact while backing him by allowing his "obviously false post" to remain on the thread.

Basically, you both backed a "deceiver" instead of a ton of bloggers who have been trying to be overboard with their comments and research. In my opinion you both lost so much credibility that quickly by backing a guy who admitted lying. His 2 stories in his 1st and 2nd post are extremely contradictory.

I really believe this has become a very serious issue regarding both of your credibility's. Why you would want to risk your credibility's over someone I perceive as a "scumbag" is beyond me. Yes, I don't use words like that but I feel confident calling d.bone a "scumbag." If he was a real person as opposed to anonymous, I would not make such a comment. But he is anonymous and hiding, while making false allegations. Ted called another anonymous blogger a "coward." I agreed with Ted.
But this guy is also an anonymous "coward." D. bone is not his real name. So he is both anonymous and a coward. Yes, must of us don't like giving our last names out, but we use our real first names. My real name is Maryann! Obviously Ameena has been using her lovely and unique first name. In some ways she is revealing her identity because she has a very rare name that I do not believe anyone else in Naperville has.

I agree with Naperville Lawyer. If someone is going to print such horrendous allegations, his real name, address and phone number should be printed in the blog so he can be held accountable.

Ameena seems to have known for 3-4 weeks that the Naperville Sun chose not to print the Napergate Man's ads for whatever reason. She apparently knew this was a sensitive issue. She wanted to say it but could not say it even though I believe she was 99% certain. She kept delaying day by day until someone gave her an assist. She did not want to print second hand information. She wanted first hand information. She held herself to an extremely high journalistic standard. Yes, it does not surprise me she is loved, admired and respected on these blogs. And she has taken the unusual step of posting her real e-mail address for us to know she is real and can be contacted.

Why should she be going thru all the effort she goes thru to be accurate while d.bone can ramble unsubstantiated falsehoods. Who cares that he stands by his "story"? That is ludicrous! Let me make it a little worse, Ted. I want to add that "you not only raped Marilyn, but you also raped me, Maryann." You are really a strange guy and it always seems a little shady right outside that Naperville Sun building where you work! I stand by my story! So Moderator Jim will print this story because I stand by my "lie." You guys were both so out of line. Honestly! I just could not believe how you attacked bloggers defending an innocent man while supporting a low life.

I hope tomorrow morning you can do something a little better than what amounts to a "broken record defense" of that "d. bone stands by his story." Incredible! His story needs to be deleted as you first did, Ted. You did the RIGHT THING! Why in the world would you REVERSE yourself and shatter your credibility. That is why our city council has no credibility. They just kept reversing themselves depending on pressure imposed during Spring Green and other battles. I think McFarland noticed you had stayed up way too late and were upset about the Naperville Sun issue of not publishing Napergate V and VI. It seems to me you may have been in a knee jerk mode because you were upset from the previous day discussions combined with being very tired. You wanted to sign your "death warrant" over nothing. Why would you want to do that when it seems like you have the ability to be a major factor in turning the Naperville Sun around?

"Assuming" Ted has some slight leaning towards City Hall, d.bone is not the person you want to use to further your support for City Hall. Again I am just making an "assumption" for arguments sake. You want to use people like Police Officer and Mrs. Police Officer to support the city. Promote and encourage them! They both have impeccable credibility on these blogs. They both speak from the heart. They both have incredible consciences.

More "assumptions" Ted. If you are attempting to tarnish the Napergate Man's reputation with that post, you actually ended up enhancing it. You showed everyone like myself who does not have first hand information, how this whole mess took place and escalated. The same thing can repeat on blog life as in real life. I can almost see it. I think many bloggers saw that this defamation against the Napergate Man was so similar to the real case. You really struck a cord with that unnecessary blog with your participants! If you were trying to increase the bloggin with controversy, it backfired. Don't count my blog because I specialize in these dormant blogs. (I believe this one will only be dormant for a short while until people have time to forgive both of you guys for the injustice you allowed by printing that d. bone nonsense.) Maybe I can give it a little adrenalin!

I am beginning to ramble and need to get ready to go to work. But finally, I want to conclude that the Naperville Sun hurt itself immensely in the 90s(both in number of papers sold and credibility) by not covering a unique story like that of the Napergate Man's story. That is the kind of unique story that doubles and triples readership since it was a 10 year ordeal that moved like a soap opera of sorts. I have to believe from the "obvious" the soft pro-establishment Sun at the time deliberately ignored him and his legacy as he was anti-establishment.

The more you read about the Napergate Man, the more you feel he is a HERO of sorts. The more you feel he has got a strong LEGACY. The more you feel he achieved some ICONIC status with his accomplishments that are being revealed day by day. Yes, I am curious about what is next! I can't wait till Ameena digs up that part about the Nicarico Case. Now we find out this Napergate Man was working behind the scenes with a former Naperville Police Chief to help wrongfully convicted Hispanics kids, 25 years ago, and in some ironic twist of fate, he suddenly finds himself wrongfully convicted. An unbelievable sudden twist and turn in the Napergate Man's saga! Really an unbelievable story that beats any fiction book you can find anywhere! Writers just can not create a story this good! But we also suddenly learn why he may have been so legally savvy and was able to deal with our complex legal system which at times is obviously not fair. He was involved in another major legal battle helping others. No wonder he had at least 3500 supporters who signed his petition when he was falsely accused. It seems like Napervillians are good people and they reciprocated 10 fold to help a man who helped others in the past. Even while the Sun was trying to ignore him he got this humongous support as evidenced by his petition which is part of his court record.(per our credible librarian Ameena)

I sure don't want to go find another blogging site. I like this one and especially this Napergate thread. This is why I wrote this very early morning and I hope you guys give reconsideration to your decision. It was a very serious flaw of judgment. The man's WORD was proved to be dishonest by his next WORD! Think about that one as your ponder your decision again! Let us get this thread back on track. It was the best thread since this bloggin started without a doubt. It had momentum! It had intellectuals!
It had articulate writers! It had it all! Just look at the d. bone post. It simply does not fit on this thread. Imagine a gang banger coming to speak before the Board of Trustees at Exxon. He just would not fit or be accepted. D. Bone does not fit and should not be accepted! He should be banned at least from this thread for his BLATANT LIE. His own words proved he LIED and DECEIVED! I am giving JIM the benefit of the doubt and assuming he was under extreme pressure trying to meet deadlines and MISSED the first post of d.bone that started the controversy but caught the SECOND one. The only thing I can say in the defense of TED is that he did not sleep well the night before last and was overly concerned about signing his "death warrant."

Thanks,
Maryann

PS. Also when you have so much overwhelming evidence to the contrary regarding a specific issue like the Napergate Man's EXCELLENT CARDING practices of the past, this should have been given some consideration before posting that d. bone first blog. For him to say it was 20 years ago so it must have happened is beyond comprehension! It has already been documented with a Supreme Court ruling almost at that exact time(of d. bone's wild allegations) that the City of Naperville had abused its discretion and power in revoking his license. The Supreme Court overturned his revoked license which had been on appeal and reinstated it. Ameena provided the exact date. I only recall with certainty from reading Ameena's blogs, it was either in 1987 or 1988. The Naperville Sun had an opportunity to verify the truth and chose not to. For the first time since I began bloggin I honestly felt that the new Naperville Sun is the exact same newspaper as the old Naperville Sun as it had behaved accordingly. Sorry about my harsh remarks but what happened yesterday needs to be addressed!

Regarding d. bone –

I think Beilen did an excellent job attacking the credibility of d. bone’s story without attacking d. bone personally. Despite what you may think of d.bone, this forum is not well served by personal attacks and banishment. Use what you have available to you—facts and common sense—and not immature insults.

Police Officer –

I had some issues with your latest post. You start out by stating that Chief Dial was not the top of the food chain, the mayor was, so Dial is not responsible because he would have been fired if he interfered. You also said that it was possible some of Dial’s officers were pulled into this conspiracy against the Napergate Man without Dial’s knowledge.

So either Dial knew what was happening but had no power to stop it; or he didn’t know what his officers were doing at all?

Dial is responsible for the conduct of his officers. Period. Even if he can be fired by the mayor. Are sergeants and lieutenants any less culpable for misconduct because they can be fired by the Chief?

You said that you believed Dial to be “a man of conscience”, “a very good man”, and a “great and ethical leader”. I’m sorry, but a great and ethical leader does not let his department get pulled into politics no matter what the consequences. A great and ethical leader stands up for what is right even if doing so may get him fired by the mayor.

As a police officer, I’m sure you understand the ethical standards expected by the public. We hope and pray that you would also stand up to serious misconduct even if you believed that you would be fired for doing so.

If Dial knew what was happening, he should have been fired. If he didn’t know, then I have serious questions regarding his grasp of what his department is doing and how he handles his officers. We’re not talking about thousands of officers in a large metropolitan department. I would venture a guess that the NPD was rather small at the time of the Napergate era.

T.B.

yes , tb. calling someone a liar, coward and a scumbag is not a personal attack. if you go back and read my posts i state only what happened to me and or my perception of it. i don't personally attack this hero of yours, napergate man. he is of no consequence to me. i would add, that trying to disassemble my story is very amusing. if i state it was easy to walk in and buy beer, then it was easy FOR ME. other people may have had different results. you cannot possibly win this argument. all you fine people claim to be on a higher level than me, with your pithy, sometimes crass remarks. but i contend the good moderator should remove the lot of you, and leave me here to expound on the fine qualities of our next president, RON PAUL. the fact that i have exposed your liberal leanings and hatred for all things RON has left me no choice, but to continue to blog.

Hello Friends,
I was not planning on returning so quickly after my last long post. But after reading d. bone's comments I feel an obligation to return since I have additional 1st hand information.

Let me start by saying I lived in Olives Trees throughout the 80s and just happen to live one building over from the Napergate Man. His store was only across the street from my residence. I moved there one year before the Napergate Man did in 1980. His reason for moving to Olives Trees was to be close to his first retail business and being able to control it. I also recalled he moved to Olive Trees and took over the store in the same exact day. Had many friends helping him accomplish both. I did not know him until he became my neighbor. He lived at 228 E. Bailey Rd. I lived one building south of him. I do not recall his apartment number.

The Napergate Man had just quit a job with a Fortune 500 company to take over this liquor store. He had an MBA. I have one too. So we had something in common. He hated traveling to Chicago daily and so chose a new life. That store was going out of business and the Napergate Man picked it up for pennies on the dollar. As we all know he likes challenges! He obviously turned it around from near bankruptcy to very successful. It remains vibrant nearly 30 years later. Let me see if I can give some numbered points again.

TRYING TO DISASSEMBLE D. BONE'S STORY IS NOT AMUSING...IT IS EASY!!!

1. I use to go there to talk to the Napergate Man. I also worked for a Fortune 500 company headquartered in Naperville. I am a little offended that d.bone would possibly think 2 MBA gentlemen talking outside his store may look a little "strange" while standing in a "shady environment!" I went there frequently to chat with him. Nothing strange or shady about him! He was simply brilliant and had extra sensory perception!

2.From 1981 and for about 5 years, the Napergate Man did not run full page political or "minor" ads. He did however run full page liquor ads every single week for those 5 years only in the Naperville Sun. He ran full page ads of only coupons. He had a huge bag to collect the coupons each week. He told me the Naperville Sun was very powerful and within 2 short years he increased his business 5 fold. Mostly from good management, good hours, strict policies against minors, stacking it high and buying it cheap, and the extreme power of advertising in the Naperville Sun in the early 80s that brought him nearly a 1000 coupons per week.

3.The Napergate Man was highly educated and knew the consequences of selling to a minor. He knew he could lose his liquor license if he would ever sell to a minor. He would never intentionally sell to a minor and risk his liquor license. He was way to smart! Based on his ability to triple the inventory of his store within months of buying it combined with his ability to pay for full page ads on a weekly basis and never skipping, one has to assume he was not hurting for money. It defies logic that he would risk his license for a 50 cent profit on a 6-pack of beer to a minor. He would never do that in a million years.

4. As one blogger already noted, before he opened up his store, he purchased a unique camera system that took 3 pictures at once. One of the customer, one of the ID and one of the date. As we all have been reading he was a meticulous documenter of events. Every transaction by anyone under 40 was recorded from day one. When I was there to visit or shop, the click of that camera was loud and it never stopped. Everyone was told to smile while their pictures were snapped. No one had this system in Naperville but him. People thought he was going overboard with his carding and documentation but they got use to him and some even looked forward to having their pictures taken!

5.The Napergate Man ran this store himself the first 10 years while living across the street in Olive Trees. He worked 15 hour days the first 2 years as part of the turnaround process or "REVERSALS" as Ameena call these events. Later he cut down to 10 hour days!

6.He developed these pictures frequently and he showed them to me and others. While videotape saved him in his second Napergate Trial, I believe these thousands and thousands of pics that showed 3 pics in one, is what convinced the Supreme Court to overturn the 1st verdict of the Kangaroo Trial in Naperville and restore his license.

7.Before the Napergate Era he published a very famous ad challenging the next person to come in the store and be his 200th victim. He had taken a full page ad in the Naperville Sun with 199 fake IDs documented by Naperville Police Reports and published it in the Sun hoping his 200th offender would not come in. His 200th offender literally came in the next day and we could not stop laughing about it. We concluded that nobody under the age of 21 must read the Naperville Sun. His coupon shoppers were all over 30 it seemed.

8.These confiscations are not the same ones that were given to the Illinois Appellant Court in the mid 90s. They were ones that were taken from minors during the exact time d. bone states minors aged 17 and 18 were running rampant in his store.

9.Besides taking a picture of every ID, he required his employees to interrogate his customers. They would be asked their birthday, their address, their social security number, their zip code, etc. If they failed their IDs were confiscated and the Naperville Police were called immediately to arrest them. Employees were instructed to copy the license plate of the car to help police arrest any minors who attempted to flee.( I am not revealing anything new or secretive that is not very well known in the NPD and by Chief David Dial....the Sun if they choose can verify by making a one minute phone call to Chief Dial)

10.His system was so strong that only a twin could fool him. But a twin using a twin's ID would really be of no help since they would be the same age.

11.So minors did come flocking to the store but they were nailed there and were separated from their fake IDs. There were always police officers at his store picking up the fake IDs. Almost daily! Minors flocked to all stores but the only one nailing them was the Napergate Man. If anything, less minors would have flocked to his store since he arrested 200 of them and there is a srong grapevine amongst minors even though they do not read the Naperville Sun. This ad with 199 fake I.D.s is well known and exists in Sun archives. It preceded Napergate. I am sure even Chief David Dial would have to remember that ad. Those are unusual things that no one did in those days or these days. Is anyone really surprised he was selected top retailer not in the state but in the entire USA from the final 500 retailers competing for the Kylix Award? (Hopefully Ameena will stumble on that ad...it is simply UNFORGETTABLE!!! I was young at the time and did not save it. Never thought it may have some historical significance 20 years later)

12. I personally saw his Kylix Trophy. He was so proud of it he published a picture of it at least twice in the Naperville Sun. Of course the old Naperville Sun, knew he won this AWARD for top retailer against minors in the USA and chose not to cover the story. Why! Ask the Naperville Sun or the City Officials who may have been pressuring the Naperville Sun not to give the Napergate Man any good press so they could complete their agenda of silencing him! Mayor Samuel Macrane made it clear he wanted the Napergate Man out of Naperville after he felt Mayor Margaret Price failed in her mission to rid Naperville of him. That was well known. Mayor Macrane's strong actions against him, that were all without exception REVERSED, indicate that strongly. Everyone knows about that famous IABTF commission report so I am not going to bore you and post it again. But it was on the money!

13. The Napergate Man was getting National Recognition for his Award. He had many pictures he showed me of that Las Vegas Night. Over 5000 people attended the banquet at the Mirage Hotel for his award and it was covered by the National Media from New York to LA. The Miller Brewing Company paid for his round trip ticket and all his expenses. They were very proud of his work against minors. He elevated the reputation of the industry and they wanted to support him. I recall them also writing a letter that was published in the Naperville Sun blasting the City of Naperville and supporting him. I have confidence Ameena will find that one as she found that now famous IABTF letter.

14. As reported by Ameena, he received many other awards over the years that are to numerous to name or recall.

15. Yes as Ameena calculated accurately, he was confiscating IDs at the rate of 564 times his competitors in the mid 90s period. No statistics exist for the late 80s period for other licensees but I assume his rate was even better then as no one knew of his unique system of carding until it was revealed publically in Las Vegas to all liquor retailers in the country.

16. Yes, d. bone did lie. Undoubtedly! The Naperville Sun has all the evidence in old ads that document he lied. They should know he is lying. Is there no one in the Naperville Sun left from the late 1980s. I recognize at least one name. Tim West! Hopefully, Jim or Ted checked to see what Tim West remembers. He seems like he is a distinguished opinion writer and must have a decent memory. And he has always been well known amongst Napervillians(especially Napergatians) since he called the City of Naperville out for the legal costs of Napergate and "they told him we don't have any and if we had them we would not give them to you." How could anyone forget that historic moment? I was shocked when I read that. I bet Tim West remembers that famous ad with the 200 confiscated IDs. How could anyone not! That completely proves d. bone lied in his first post and indicates strongly he lied in his second post or he must have had the Mother of all IDs and had it memorized back and worth and had his real picture inserted in it to fool the Napergate Man. Very highly unlikely but remotely possible!

Anyway, I said enough! I would also like to politely add my voice to all who want those d. bones blogs removed and have this site restored to what it was before we were subjected to such lies that defy common sense and logic.

PS. For the record I did not come forward before because most of the discussion was about Spring Green and South West Gate. I do not have first hand knowledge on those battles and only read about them in the Naperville Sun and Napergate. I only have first hand information on Napergate as it pertains to his liquor license(s).

Maryann,

That was a very insightful post. I can't believe we have yet another articulate writer. You are in the class of Ameena and Eli.

Great Job! I hope somebody listens to what you said.

It just makes too much sense!

T. B.
This Chief Dial/Macrane controvery as to where the puck stops is unusual. I kind of agree with you.

I think the Police Officer is a nice guy who likes Chief Dial.
But he is trying way to hard to defend him. This to me indicates something is very wrong somehwere.

I wish the Naperville Sun could talk to our officials and find out where the puck stops. I wonder if they have answers.

It would be easier to hold our officials accountable if one knew where the puck stops.

I think our officials like things to be vague and love exercising silence and non response.

The city officials just adore the Naperville Sun as they never question them.

In any other town there would be a Napergate of sorts going on caused by the press and not one MAN.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Maryann,

Where did you get the energy to write such a long post. It would take me all night to write something like that.

I hope Jim and Ted listen to you. They are really nice guys but on this one they really screwed up. It just does not seem possible they would back a Bonehead Man over the Napergate Man.

But they chose to believe the lies of Bonehead. As you point out and another blogger did who I can't remember the name of, Bonehead Man contradicts himself in his 2 blogs.

I am still hopeful Jim only saw the second blog. As you said Ted was tired. He is excused! But we need to hear from Jim. I am almost positive Jim could not have seen the first blog to make his ruling. He is the top man there as someone pointed out recently. Forgot who noticed that when they bought the Sunday edition of the Napergate Man!

d. bone –

What you obviously fail to realize is that while not on your side, I am also not against you. I am about the only person writing on this thread not calling you an idiot or calling for you to be banned. I don’t agree with you, but the forum is supposed to be a give and take and if opposing viewpoints are beaten into submission or banned then there’s not much point to the blog, is there?

As much as you claim to have written about what YOU experienced, I believe Beilen did so, also, and probably in a more convincing fashion (to ME at least). He also did it without becoming overly emotional as Marilyn, Marshall, and Naperville Lawyer seemed to be when they wrote their initial posts.

Unfortunately, as we see in your latest post, your first instinct is to lash out even at those who are trying to assist you in some small way.

I have no idea what you perceived as my “liberal leanings”. People who know me would get a very big laugh at the thought of me having “liberal leanings”. Your unfettered support of Ron Paul does nothing to disuade my theory that the guy is nuts.

Good luck. You’re on your own.

T.B.

Randy,

I have never seen anyone with a memory like yours. You almost have a photographic memory.

You would never know those details unless you were in that store spending time.

To bad you have to leave us for a full day hanging until you can clear the air as to what really happened.

I feel confident in saying after reading your blog that d. bone lied, just like everyone else is saying.

Why the Sun does not want to verify the lie by making a call to Chief Dial just shows they have something against the Napergate Man just like the City of Naperville does. I am really disgusted after the proof you presented. It is shocking they would print that filth by d.bone. I can see how the people with the first hand knowledge were outraged yesterday.

I suspect all the newcomers with second hand knowledge will be outraged after they hopefully see your post later today.

The more I read these blogs the more desperate I feel we have no one wathing our government since the Napergate Man retired.

I am not surprised that suddenly residents are yearning for him to come back.

T.B.
I am very impressed with your advice to d. bone.

You probably wrote it before Randy's post. I was floored after reading what Randy wrote. This guy is incredible!

We are lucky to have him right in the liquor store at the same time d.bone claims minors were flocking there to buy liquor because it was so easly.

Well the flocking to buy liquor there is apparently and ironically true. But the part that it was easy to succeed is a DESPICABLE LIE. It was an easy way to a Naperville Jail Cell. That is the only EASY I see in the EASY he is describing.

I personally think the Host and Moderator have some serious explaining to do to the bloggers after that latest Randy post.

There has so much been documented by this Napergate Man and it is no wonder that no one has been successfully been able to frame his in 20 years. I hope he comes out of retirement and runs for Mayor one day. We need a Mayor like him. He would have City Hall cleaned in about 24 hours!

Kind of scary! But this guy would run City Hall singlehandedly until he found the right people to run our city in a way it should be run.

OK, now we know why the Napergate Man wins all his battles.

He documents everything...

Furstenau needs to learn to document from the Napergate Man.

It is becoming apparent the differences in strengths between the DF case and the Napergate Man case.

So much we never new about the Napergate Man until this bloggin started. Yes, he was the best kept secret in town.

I also thought the moderator and host were out of line but did not want to say anything.

I feel confident in now stating they were both sleeping behind the wheel when reversing themselves on the d. bone post and reposting that "scumbag post" as that sharp Maryann lady correctly labeled him.

People that double reverse usually don't know what they are doing.

I am saddened that our host and moderator could be so wrong in their conclusions.

This is not opinion this idiot d. bone was posting. He was posting fairy tales.

If Jim and Ted want to regain their credibility this BONEHEAD OF BONEHEADS needs to be banned permanently....

The only reason I can see for him not being banned is because there is some kind of conspiracy to continue to tarnish the Napergate Man's name that has passed from the so called old Naperville Sun to the so called new Naperville Sun. Who ever came up with those terms? There is only one Naperville Sun and it is not capable of changing and wants to remain stuck in the caves of the Stone Age.

By the way Randy, great post again! Keep them coming!

wait a minute. did you say he had ESP ? could he bend a spoon with his mind ? did you also see all the flying saucers and aliens milling about ? i guess, he should have used his spidy sense's to know i was underage. well anyway, i am going to throw my computer out the window now. so to all of my dear friends i will bid you adieu. vaya con RON PAUL.

IS TWO AMEENAS POSSIBLE...?????????????????????????????????????

MY GOD THIS RANDY GUY SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER AMEENA WHO DOES NOT EVEN NEED TO GO TO THE LIBRARY.

WHERE HAS HE BEEN THE LAST 2 MONTHS WHEN THIS THING WAS GETTNG OUT OF CONTROL TO SHED SOME LIGHT.

I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT A GUY LIKE D.BONE COULD LIE LIKE THAT AND THINK HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!

I GUESS WHEN YOU HAVE SO MANY CITIZENS JOURNALISTS AS HOST TED CALLS THEM THE TRUTH EVENTUALLY COMES OUT.

I HOPE HOST TED AND MODERATOR JIM DECIDE TO LISTEN TO THEIR CITIZEN JOURNALISTS. THIS D.BONE GUYS SOUNDS LIKE A TROUBLE MAKER.

DOES FORMER MAYOR MACRANE HAVE ANY CHILDREN THAT ANYON KNOWS OF?

I AM JUST THINKING HE MAY POSSIBLY BE TRYING TO CONTINUE THE AGENDA OF HIS DAD.

WHAT OTHER AGENDA DOES HE HAVE! WHAT POSSESSED THIS GUY TO ACCUSE AN INNOCENT MAN???

AS ONE BLOGGER STATED IT FEELS LIKE THE NAPERGATE MAN IS BEING FALSELY CHARGED AGAIN. IT HURTS BUT I HAVE TO PINCH MYSELF AND REMIND MYSELF THIS BLOGGIN IS NOT THE REAL WORLD. THANK GOD!!!

I am beginning to think this d. bone character is a friend of someone in the Naperville Sun for him to be able to post such slanderous remarks.

Any other reputable newspaper would have banned him by now.

As that Naperville Lawyer stated if bloggin wasn't such a new field and had the standards of print newspapers, the Naperville Sun would have been sued for posting that remark by d. bone.
The first remark! The second as Randy said is remotely possible but unlikey.

The first remark is not remotely possible.

I would settle for the first post being removed if the Host feels we need a compromise here..

Randy, Maryann, and Beilen have all shown the lie in the first post from d.bones own second post. What more proof does the Host need? The Host is on record as saying he does not tolerate lies!
What happened? He is becoming like City Officials.. He can no longer respond indicating he is guilty of something!!!

The host made the right decision when he obliged Ameena. He should know what Ammena is about. She was ranked top blogger! She has established some much credibility since her car got towed and Joe was trying to call her dishonest! But she is so truthful!
Who voted for bonehead...maybe himself but I forget to check?
I remember actually one idiot voting for himself. As soon as I fire this post, I have to see if it was bonehead. If it was, I guess this all makes sense!

Maryann and Randy,

I honestly don't know which one of you guys did a better job to disprove Bonehead. You both were so eloquent.

All I can say if you two guys can't convince the Moderator/Host to change their minds, no one can.

It reminds me when we could not convince Mayor Pradel and former Mayor Price to support us in Spring Green. They were stuck in the sand like no one could believe!

I am hopeful that Moderatore/Host will not be stuck in the sand as they have been so awesome for the last 6 months and suddenly sold all their credibility they built with the bloggers right down the river. They should have dumped D. Bone down the river...not their credibility. I am shocked they would take such a wrong stand against the Napergate Man! I hope they learned a lesson about not posting blatant lies that can easily be disassembled. I know I borrowed that last word from bonehead but I would like to use his words against him.

I think it's a little disingenuous of you guys to be hurling bricks at Ted and myself all because of d.bone's post. So, to your minds, you disproved him. We're just offering you the venue to do so if you wish. We're not taking sides here, just keeping the forum open to all. Sounds like the classic case of blaming the messenger,

I think people have been a bit harsh on Ted and Jim for the d. bone posting. I think they are in a precarious position and are rightly staying out of the realm of being the arbiter of truth.

What one person may see as slander, another may regard as opinion--and I think we’re all entitled to our opinions on this thread.

Be careful what you ask for because this is a slippery slope. If the moderator is supposed to catch anything potentially libelous or untrue, how long would it take for every post to reach the thread while being fact-checked? And what happens when your post is denied because Ted or Jim can’t figure out if it’s true or false?

For the most part, I say let the posts fly and we can decide for ourselves, research on-line or in the library, or even dig deep into our memories to do a better job of policing the thread than Ted or Jim could ever do.

I don’t think issues like a boneheaded post affect the credibility of the Sun as a whole. I think we can all tell the difference between a factual newspaper article and someone’s opinion on-line.

T.B.

Moderator,
With all due respect we are not throwing bricks at you.

You guys permitted bricks to be thrown at the Napergate Man.

As Newspaper publishers and editors you should know better than to publish something so blatantly false.

It is well known you made sure those Napergate ads were not only non-libelous but accurate and credible.

Now keep your standards of the past up. We like them.

You guys(or specifically Host Ted) said he would not publish a falsehood knowing it is a falsehood. He needs to keep his word to us bloggers if he expects us to respect him and believe him in the future.

He knows that first remark by d.bone is an incredible pure lie. And he refuses to unpublish it.

That is indefensible!

Randy suggested you call Police Chief Dial to verify his story. You are reporters! You should have called him to verifiy Randy's story if you doubted it.

I don't doubt it one bit. My experiences at that store were they were strict as hell no matter what era we are talking about.

And please don't think we don't follow these blogs just because some of us only write once a month.

That Maryann lady was sharp when she said "would you publish a comment that she also was raped by Ted in addition to Marilyn."
Her comment blew my mind! I doubt you would publish that comment and say blame the messenger...not me. That is where your latest post falls apart, Mr. Moderator.

You would protect Ted. Now be a man and protect the Napergate Man.

I am totally infuriated with you Mr. Moderater for your latest statement. It defies logic..It defies reason.

You are responsible for the messengers on your blog.

If not I challenge you to post that "Marilyn and Maryann were raped by Ted."

Don't you guys see this nonsense going on!

When people make mistakes and don't apologize things get worse..

Your number one Citizen Journalist Ameena made a mistake by calling someone retarded..

She apologized immediately! She lost no respect or credibility.
No wonder she is so popular. She is a class act!

Can't you guys follow suit and try to be like your Top Citizen Jouranlist. You set up the polls for the vote. Not us!

Learn from your best! Thanks! I am sorry I am writing with such emotion but I can not tolerate an innocent man who has been railroaded for 20 years to be continuously railroaded..

First by the city and now by the Sun. What is going on?

Can't you guys ever respect a man who gained the respect of Judges in both Federal and County Courts. The respect of so many national organizations. The respect of so many Napervillians with that award winning 44 Napergate series.

I can't take it anymore. I have to stop writing..

Moderator,

Excuse me regard your statement "to our minds we disproved d.bone."

No sir that first post was blatantly false.

Check your archives...check police records...look for that ad your own newspaper published with those 199 Fake IDs confiscated.

I don't have memory like Randy's but he moved my memory and I remember that ad like it was yesterday all of a sudden.

Randy makes sense on the second post. It is remotely possible that crazy guy fooled the Napergate Man with a fake ID.. Leave that one in if you must. People understand the Napergate Man ain't perfect..

But that first post was totally slanderous and libelous.

It attacks a man's reputation who tried to run a clean business and won national award for his efforts.

I am utterly ashamed you would leave that slanderous remark on your post and suggest "it is in our minds."

You have lost your sense of judgment, Mr. Moderator. I am sorry!

You guys took it off the first time. You knew it was a wrong and terrible post.

It looks like someone from the City pressured you guys to return that libelous comment..

The Napergate Man lives in my subdivision of Pembroke Commons. We all know him way to well here in Pembroke Commons. You are attacking our entire subdivisin when you attack this gentleman....our leader in this subdivision. Our hero!

I have special feeling for this man. I have written before only to tell you he saved my home from Brestal. I was not emotional.
We were talking only about a house.

Now we are talking about a man's reputation and dignity.

If that d. bone slander is not removed, I promise you I will launch a campaign in both Pembroke Commons and Huntington Estates to have everyone cancel their subscribtion to the Sun.

And because it is the Napergate Man and everyone knows him and respects him in a way you can not imagine, this campaign of cancelling our newspaper will be very successful.

If I don't hear soon, I will start banging on doors.. I hope if you don't respond my campaign will spread to all the subdivisions like the Napergate Man's Campaign spread.

Thank you for your reconsideration...Yes, I am very angry and outraged at the Naperville Sun today more than yesterday.. I controlled myself and did not write yesterday!

PS. I am originally from China. I left China because this kind of thing happened there. I can not believe it is happening in my new country. The city persecuted the Napergate Man. It is very well documented.

Please don't allow the Naperville Sun to persecute him again..

Please don't act like the arm of the government.

Please be the watch dog of City Hall like all my American friends have been saying to you.

Thank you!

To Dor, Robert, others but not all Napergate bloggers: I've had it up to here with a lot of you people and am about ready to shut down this thread. Dor, who do you think you are besmirching the newspaper that gives you the very forum to vent your views? And, why are you so outraged about one post that - to our minds - was fair game. Keep up your threats and not only will the thread be shut down but you, Dor, will be banned from blogging. And Robert, why don't you just chill out a little. No one was trying to libel or slander anyone. All of a sudden you guys have turned into armchair lawyers? Give me a break. This is the last warning. Talk about ungrateful. I will suffer no more personal attacks on myself, Ted or this newspaper and web site.

T. B.
You points are well taken but you are misunderstanding what happened.

I agree that Jim and Ted can't always know what is true or not true.

But once their citizen journalists like Randy, Ameena, Maryann, and Beilen provide the proof something is false it all becomes a completely different story. We are in a different ball park.. Not the one you are in!

At this point they lose their credibilty if the don't unpost.

Randy's post was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

I am a subcriber to the Sun if they do not remove slander knowing it is slander, I plan on seriously considering discontinuing my subscription after 15 years of loyalty to my local paper.

I would also add my voice to all those and plead with the Moderator or Host to unpublish that first very libelous post by D. Bone. If the host would have been reading carefully as we do, he would have seen as everyone else saw that his lie came out from within his own words. This is not rocket science. The man admitted he lied a few minutes later by saying he used a pretty damn good fake ID card. In his earlier post he said minors were simply flocking to get their liquor there like the Napergate Man had a "free for all" going. Just so ridiculous knowing that man. That is really defaming a man's character who spent all his life building it. That is a real travesty of justice bording on that Kangaroo verdict given to the Napergate Man that everyone in Naperville knows about except reporters for the Naperville Sun.

Enough is enough!

All Bloggers,
I would like to ask you all to calm down. I think we are forgetting that Jim and Ted have other duties besides watching bloggers like us bloggin all day.

I also was upset about that d. bone blog but got over it. I believe I was the first one to ask for it to be removed so obviously I feel your pain. However, a very positive thing happened. You all provided excellent information that d. bone was lying. That is all we needed to know. Let us leave Jim and Ted alone.

I would like to ask you all to PLEASE stop your attacks on Ted and Jim. They provide us with this free service. There are not even ads that we have to go thru to read the blogs like other sites. Just ask Maryann what it is like to blog on Gretawire.com. We have one d.bone! They have a 100 d. bones per day! I checked it out for one day and came right back here. One d.bone is much better than a 100 d.bones! We should be grateful for that and think positive.

Jim and Ted don't censor or edit. I have never had a post denied or edited. Let us look at the positive. I was also upset all day but I just tried to control myself and not write or post.

But thinking about all that has gone on, most of the approach of the bloggers has been wrong...especially Dor. I am sure she did not mean what she said and was just very emotional as I have been. I urge Jim and Ted not to cut her off. She has always been an honest and good blogger. I can understand her extreme emotion because she almost had a dumpster in her back yard if it wasn't for the Napergate Man. I would like to see her apologize and I believe she will when she cools down.

Here is what our approach should be. Praising Randy for his awesome post. Really, his post was awesome! It blows my mind that I have to spend weeks in the library researching when Randy is a walking encyclopedia. Randy has been kind enough to give me his e-mail address and has assured me he will help us all with any first hand information he has. But he also told me in an e-mail he only has first hand eye witness information before the Napergate Man transformed his platform from liquor to development. As you all know he has so much information because he was the Napergate Man's neighbor, friend and just happened to be living across the street from the store in question

I admire Randy. He has been much more calm than any of us and it is apparent he has a lot of first hand knowledge to share.

Ironically, one thing d.bone and Randy agree on is that minors were flocking to that store in huge numbers.....by the hundreds...undisputed!!! That puzzles me that so many minors would be flocking to such a strict store. It is hard to explain. One has to wonder if hundreds were flockin to this one store, how many thousands most have been flockin to all the other stores who only captured one ID every 3 years. At least we learned of another battle in the Napergate Man's life. A battle with hundreds of minors that he eventually won. Chalk another victory for the Napergate Man that was uncovered while we were arguing. So let us think positive since d. bone did tell us the truth at least about hundreds of minors that were flockin there. It does appear though assuming he is being truthful that he is the only known minor to have escaped the Spider Web!

At this point nothing makes sense to me. Why so many minors would flock to this store while he was swatting them down like flies? One thing for sure about this massive flocking is that it is not because he sold liquor to minors. We heard about this ad with 200 confiscated IDs from many people in the library. The librarian and I have been looking for it for quite a while. It is just a matter of time before we find it since all the Naperville Suns exist in the library and we know for sure that ad, Randy spoke of, was in the Naperville Sun and not the Daily Herald. It takes time to go thru a 1000 newspapers. As Ted reminds us often the Napergate Era was not the Internet Era. It was just beginning. Everything is much harder to research in that ERA. And again Ted reminds us how hard it must been for the Napergate Man to accumulate all that information for his 44 Napergate Series of Ads and many other political and fake ID ads! The Napergate Man did have a Napergate.com site. It appears he mothballed it just like he mothballed all his ads. He did not want to go on forever! He knew when to quit! We need to know when to quit too, especially with our attacks on Jim and Ted. The time to quit those attacks is RIGHT NOW!

Why don't we all read Randy's post one more time and stop writing for the rest of the day and let things cool off. Yesterday, we stopped writing and things seemed to cool off. Of course I do not mean stop writing completely but stop writing against Jim and Ted.

I think ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I personally will be upset if anyone attacks Jim or Ted in the next week. And really we should not be attacking them ever but trying to communicate with them in a civil manner. Let us have a cease-fire. Please!!! You guys have all been great until the last 2 days.

I don't understand how we all let d. bone get under our skin like this. But he somehow did! I recall one night McFarland wrote a nice long letter to Ted and told him to have thick skin about that now "very old incident" of not publishing 2 Napergate ads 15 years ago. Ted agreed with him that he probably should have thicker skin.

We at this point all need to have thicker skin. We were all doing a good job and the slippery slope took us down the gutter. We now have to climb out of the gutter!

I am urging you all to stop your attacks immediately. We have been told what the consequences will be. We all love bloggin and love this thread. Do you guys want to see it removed? So please take a deep breath, walk the dog, or cool down before you write.

I waited all day to cool down because I did not want to be angry when writing..

This has been reported to have been the best site by many bloggers. I believe it still is! And I intend to work to keeping it the best site until it leaves the Main page and we can retire it to the archives. The Napergate Man retired on a very high note. Let us honor him and retire this thread on a high note. I never met him but from reading so much about him, I believe he would want us to be on the up and up.

I recall when the police told him to leave City Hall while distributing Napergate V, he just left. He knew you don't battle police on the street. You do what they say and take it to court if they are out of line. He listened to them whether they were right or wrong. I still don't know if he had a right to be there, but he knew better than to argue with the police. You can never win arguing with a policeman on the street...so why try!

We should also know better than attacking Ted and Jim on their own thread while providing us a free service and honestly being extremely fair to all of us. Let us respect them as the Napergate Man respected the police. Do you think the Napergate Man would have won his numerous cases in court if he had touched or punched a policeman when they tried to evict him out of City Hall? He let them evict him and in the end we all know who WON! He always knew the smart move to make in all his difficult battles and circumstances!

Respect will always win in the final analysis. Let us show Ted and Jim some respect. I want to apologize to them on behalf of all the bloggers who attacked them the last 2 days including myself.(if I did) I hope I did not but it is hard to recall what you do when you are emotional! I admit I was emotional but I am hoping I did not attack them. I thought it is more important to write this letter and try to cool things down before rereading what I wrote that can't be changed anyway!

I wish you all a very nice evening. I will not write anymore today. I will be taking a walk and cooling down some more! I will be thinking of McFarland's advice to Ted about thick skin and seeing if I can develop it soon!

Thanks to everyone and especially Ted and Jim for giving us complete freedom of expression. Let us not abuse it! My apologies on behalf of all bloggers are extended to them once again.

Ameena...

I am going to have to go with myself, d.bone. as my favorite blogger. the rest of you are self centered, egotistical, and mostly wrong in your opinions and stances. i have witnessed some of the dumbest, illogical, and most ill conceived thinking ever. there is a phrase called, "beating a dead horse." anyone ever hear of it ?

Posted by: d.bone | January 10, 2008 08:30 AM

__________________________________________________________________

I did verify that in fact the man who voted for himself was in fact d. bone. I think if you read what he said about himself, we will no longer take him seriously as we did this one time.

I guess he is accusing us all of being self-centered but yet he is the only one that voted for himself. What hypocrisy!!!

I think the Napergate would have ignored a guy like d.bone. Why didn't we? I am sure the Napergate Man developed thick skin over the years. He probably laughs at comments from a guy like d. bone.

Why didn't we just laugh it off???

Note from Ted, host:

Well said, Farmsteadman. d.bone reminds me a little of the guy Joe on this blog, who seems to say things sometimes just to get a rise out of people. I think that's exactly what's going on with d.bone.

We should all be thankful the Naperville Sun, and the moderators have allowed us a forum to vent, discuss, inform, criticize, theorize, speculate, engage, question, reminisce, and express our opinions openly. Everyone is not always 100% correct 100% of the time. Some incorrect statements, misunderstandings, misstatements, or invalid points are bound to be posted. Among the garbage, I feel some of us do a pretty good job bringing important facts and viewpoints to the forum.

I find it ironic that one of the important revelations on this blog was that the Sun would not publish one of the Napergate Man's ads back in the day, due to alleged pressure from the city. Now we have bloggers pressuring the Sun to unpublish the blog of a man giving an account of his own experiences.

D.Bone's account of the incident might or might not have occurred, as pointed out by many bloggers. Only D.Bone knows for sure. Do you really believe NO underaged people EVER purchased alcohol from the Napergate Man? I find that hard to believe, but who knows for sure?

Thankfully, this forum allows us to express ourselves openly in our quest to understand the truth. Despite the fact that many bloggers are misinformed, twist the truth, misrepersent facts, and outright lie, I don't feel the Sun should be held responsible for the contents. If the moderators have to investigate the validity of every word written by every blogger before posting them, they will never get posted! I think it is more important for us to tell it like we see it from our hearts and mind. Then our writings can be read, and interpreted as each reader sees fit.

Please don't keep demanding more involvement and censorship by the moderators! Other than obscenities, of course, and the old "fire" in a theater situation, I prefer this blog to continue as an open forum. Please don't go crying to the Sun to intervene because you don't believe something you read on a post! These posts are the free expression of views and experiences of the people who post them, NOT the Sun, or Jim, or Ted, or any other scapegoats you wish to blame. Personally, I like it best when the moderators interject interesting facts periodically, but otherwise stay above the fray.

Note from Ted, host:
Hey, SNT: Thanks, I couldn't agree more.

Adam --

The Sun doesn’t know d. bone from Randy or Ameena or me. Siding with the majority against d.bone would be nothing more than mob mentality. The Sun doesn’t have the time or manpower to check all the facts and recollections being thrown out here. They have to let the bloggers put out their opinions and make their own judgments regarding truth and credibility.

I think SW Naperville Taxpayer made some good points. I also don’t believe d. bone’s post was quite as slanderous as it was made out to be. Wrong, but nothing to cause the commotion that it did. Simply prove the post wrong and move on. No hysterics necessary.

Banishment and censorship demands are counterproductive and fruitless.

T.B.

D.Bone's account of the incident might or might not have occurred, as pointed out by many bloggers. Only D.Bone knows for sure. Do you really believe NO underage people EVER purchased alcohol from the Napergate Man? I find that hard to believe, but who knows for sure?
Posted by: Southwest Naperville Taxpayer | January 29, 2008 08:25 PM

****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

SOUTHWEST NAPERVILLE TAXPAYER AND T.B. WHO AGREED WITH HIM,

I want to address your question above because it is an inflammatory question, that also seems accusatory, and could create the kind or RISE we have seen on this thread way to often. I made several phone calls to police friends in Naperville and Roselle. I do not know any police in Stone Park but my police friend in Roselle knows a Stone Park policeman who lives in that suburb and called him for me. Those are the only 3 suburbs Basim Esmail ever had liquor licenses in. He had 4 at one time with 2 in Naperville.

HERE ARE MY 12 POINTS TO ANSWER SOUTHWEST NAPERVILE TAXPAYER AND T. B. WHO AGREED WITH HIM

1. Here is what I found out from police in 3 depts. directly and indirectly. It was all based on memory as it is illegal for a police officer to check on a civilian outside of the course of an investigation on the police computers. It is a Class 3 felony! None of this information is from police computers. No one including myself is going to risk their job and go to jail. Just for the record, if any police officer tells you he has computer information either he is lying or committed a Class 3 felony!

2.All police indicate that the Napergate Man actually never sold liquor to a minor in nearly 30 years. Never been personally charged once. Except for that infamous "sting operation" which we all know with 100% certainty now that it was not a sale to a minor. It was a false charge. So, yes SWT, I actually do believe he never sold alcohol to a minor. I also do believe no minor was ever able to con him due to his unique ability to interrogate and break down minors.

3.Now if we change your question to "Did his employees ever UNINTENTIONALLY sell liquor to a minor or fail to detect a fake I.D.?" The answer is certainly YES !

4. According to the memories of many police officers in the NPD, his Extra Value Liquor store employees were charged with approximately 3 sales to a minor and he, the infamous "sting operation." This was in a 20 year period from 1981 to 2001. He apparently sold this store at almost the same exact time he mothballed Napergate. I think it was his way of closing the chapter completely as this store was very synonymous to Napergate. They were just to intertwined.

Most policemen know about the charges but do not understand the end result of these charges as they headed to very high courts. Ameena probably has better information than the cops as regarding disposition of the charges.

5.What seems to be unknown by the hundreds of bloggers bloggin away daily is that Mr. Esmail owns another liquor store in Naperville with the same exact name of Extra Value Liquors on Rt. 59. I verified with numerous police sources that he is currently the sole owner of this store. So he appears to be retired from Napergate but not the liquor business.

6.Regarding this second store which he has owned since 1994, police friends indicate his employees only had one sale to a minor of alcohol or cigarettes. One or the other for sure! It happened roughly between his 9th and 11th years. No police officer heard anything on the news about it after he was charged. But he was definitely charged for the action of his employee. The speculation is he met with Mayor George Pradel quietly and settled it for a fine. No one knows for sure. But that seems the most likely scenario based on the overwhelming evidence from bloggers including myself that he has a very good relationship with Mayor George Pradel.

Just for the record this is the second license the City of Naperville refused to give him for nealry 5 years. The City of Naperville was ordered 3 times by a Dupage Judge and once by the 3 Judge Panel of the Appellant Court to grant his license, before they finally complied. It seems like City Officials were having a hard time understanding that you have to obey a Judge and Jury verdict. You could say it finally sunk in at some point!

7. Roselle police tell me his employees passed monthly sting operations run against all establishments equally before finally being stung in his 12th year. Most establishment there fail an average of 3 stings per year and pass about 9 stings. The Napergate Man seemed to have set a record in that town of passing over 144 stings in a row before finally failing. The police officer I spoke to remembers vividly that all establishments in Roselle failed that specific sting.(Ameena has previously posted the exact date and time of that historic failure of Mr.Esmail. I do not know how she gets her information but at least 2 Roselle Police Officers confirmed her finding is precise and on target.)

They had found a 20 year older male with a very thick beard that looked at least 30 years old to perform that monthly sting. The bottom line his 12 year record was finally shattered and his employee should have still carded the guy even though he looked 30. That is why retailers are asked to card people who look under 40. Mr. Esmail met with the Mayor who "chewed him" out as is the procedure in that town, told him his employees must do better and fined him either $100 or $150 dollars. Some police remember it being $100 dollars and others remember it being $150. But it was only a fine! No suspension or revocation like was common at his Bailey Rd location in Naperville.

This case was highly publicized in the Roselle and North Suburban media for 2 reasons.

a. He had a streak kind of like John Wooden's UCLA basketball teams and people were wondering when this store would finally cave in to a sting. As we know no one is perfect. The store finally bit the dust as they say!

b. He had received a lot of publicity in Roselle and Schamburg,(his store was right on the border) for that Kylix Award he won in Las Vegas for strictest retailer in the nation..

The Roselle Police liked Mr. Esmail very much but he was making them look bad because they never got any results out of his store. If a police officer never writes a speeding tickets or gets a DUI he looks bad. If he never nails a minor buying from a liquor store he looks bad. So they were just doing their job and Mr. Esmail respected them even though they ended his streak which it appears he was very proud of and I am sure hated to have ended.

The Mayor who "chewed him" out also wrote him 3 commendations that are part of the very lengthy Napergate Court Record. I first learned of these commendations from Ameena but some RPD officers were aware of them also as they had been published in the Roselle Press.

8. He also owned a nightclub in a town called Stone Park. My Roselle Police officer source who has a friend in the SPPD verified he was charged with liquor to a sale of a minor in that town once during his 10 year ownership of a nightclub there.

Apparently a 20 year old girl was able to get in despite 2 bouncers at the door carding. She initially ordered a Red Bull. The bartender served her the Red Bull. She later tried ordering a drink but the bartender was suspicious and asked her for an ID despite being inside the place already. She did not have an I.D. and was not served alcohol. Police somehow got involved. In that town the police dept. was across the street and 50 yards from the nightclub door. They were in and out of his place frequently.

Anyway the incident was reported to the Mayor who decided to charge him with a sale of alcohol to a minor even though she only had a RED BULL. Apparently the standard in Stone Park is if a minor enters your premises, you are guilty of selling to a minor whether the minor got the drink or not. Too make a long story short he pled guilty to a stipulated charge and the Mayor charged him it is believed 100 to 150 dollars which seems to be the standard charge for first time offender in most suburban towns at the time. The fines get much worse for repeat offenders just like 2nd DUIs are worse for civilians...much worse!

9. That is pretty much his record of nearly 3 decades. Yes, all these towns held him responsible for his employee's actions. He was fined and not his employees. It did not matter if he had multiple businesses, if he was out of town, present, if they were accident or deliberate, he was RESPONSIBLE. Obviously this is a vicious business to be in and highly regulated. I hope next time someone goes to a liquor store they offer their ID without even being asked.

10. Do these violations make Basim Esmail a terrible person. I don't think so. I believe from all the good police officers I talked to, he was trying his best. He was not perfect. If you have never owned a business, try to control your employees and see how difficult it is. How can you prevent an employee from coming to work with a hangover one day and not doing his duty? I believe that was a situations with one of the cases at Bailey Rd. in Naperville. But that is the law! Police have to enforce the law. So even if Mr. Esmail may have been sleeping while his manager woke up with a hang over the next morning and sold to a minor, Mr. Esmail is deemed responsible and accountable under the Liquor Control Act of the State of Illinois.. Please note, the police don't make the law. We only enforce the law. If you think Mr.Esmail should not be charged for sale to a minor while he is sleeping, than this is an issue you have to take up with City Hall or Springfield. But please don't blame us Police Officers for performing our duties.

11. Basim Esmail was treated fairly in Roselle, Stone Park and at his second location in Naperville. I believe he would agree with me. He did his best and the Mayors gave him reasonable fines understanding the difficulty of running a liquor store. So in these 3 locations, I want everyone to understand their was no corruptions or conspiracies. Everything was on the up and up from all sides. Every thing took place as should. For the record Mayor Pradel most probably handled his violation at Rt. 59 privately. It was never printed in any newspaper. This is the sign of a classy Mayor who does not want to tarnish the Napergate Man's name any further. I suspect he knows Mr. Esmail does an excellent job and treats him accordingly.

12. So where did this Napergate Mess take place. Only at his one Bailey Rd. location before he acquired his second liquor license from the Appellant Court.

BACK TO NAPERGATE THEORIES OF THE PAST AND PRESENT.....

I believe as the very first blogger on this thread named Cindy said, there was "Selective Enforcement" at his Bailey Rd store. This is where the 5-10 cops came in to try to nail him to further the political agendas of former Mayors Chester Rybikci, Margaret Price, Samuel Macrane, City Prosecutor Francis Cuneo, and City Attorney Michael Roth. You simply can not get rid of the Napergate Man or nail his stores without police involvement. A Mayor is not authorized to stop minors coming out of a store and nailing them. They had to use these 5-10 police officers to accomplish their goal.

If Mr. Esmail was simply selling to hundreds of minors as d. bone wants us to believe, why would they need 5-10 police officers focused on this one store in a selective enforcement manner. If it was like d. bone said, all they would have to do is station one policeman outside his store to write a dozen tickets in one day and no Illinois Appellant Court or even Supreme Court could help him. Obviously that was not the case. It was so hard to nail him because he was really that good. But nonetheless the former Mayors and City Attorneys did not like his political agenda and wanted him nailed and out of town. They knew he was a threat to the political establishment. That he was a threat to stability of the council where the "old boys network" wants to remain in control. Were they right? Yes, they were right! He was a big threat! A huge threat! They never seen a guy who can take a full page ad and endorse 4 candidates and have them all elected. He did it! They became more threatened!

But Mr. Esmail according to our constitution has a right to be politically involved. He has a right to endorse opposing candidates which he did. He has a right to run for city council which he did not. He has a right to run for Mayor which he did not. The establishment had no right to target his liquor licenses for his well known political activities.

To answer your question SNT and TB who agrees, if you want to apply the selective enforcement applied to only Mr. Esmail on all establishments we would have a DRY TOWN. No other establishment in Naperville could have survived the selective enforcement Mr. Esmail was under.
Not one of these other 104 establishments would have lasted a week.

If you want me to give you my very honest opinion about those other 104 establishments... Since they were averaging approximately one third of an ID per year per establishment, each one of them was probably selling to an average of 500 minors each multiple times per year using fake IDs. We know Esmail was nailing roughly 200 per year. Minors had to know he was very strict and the grapevine was very strong every time a minor got arrested by Mr. Esmail. So there had to be more minors going to these other stores if you try to reason it out with some kind of logic. Why would you got to the toughest place that is notorious for separating you from your ID. Why would you prefer to go to an establishment where police were constantly visible picking up fake IDs and arresting minors? It makes no sense to me or Ameena. The only thing that makes sense is there were thousands and thousands of minors but most were attempting their acts of bravery at other places and basically not only not getting caught but being able to repeat their actions over and over again. Only when they made the mistake of going to Extra Value Liquors did they lose their precious license to drink. Keep in mind in those days obtaining a fake ID was much easier than in these days. Today's IDs have features that are much more difficult to duplicate!

But truthfully the former 3 Mayors who doubled as liquor commissioners did not care one bit about these 104 other licensees and their sales to minors. The wink and the nod to them was do as you please but just don't embarrass us. If you don't embarrass us we will do nothing to you. Their average of one ID every 3 years is despicable and embarrassing. I can only imagine the 3 Judge panels of the 2 Appellant Courts nodding their heads in disbelief and disgust before vinidicating Mr. Esmail.

All the Mayors cared about was staying in power. They did not want to rub the other licensees the wrong way and possibly lose their votes and their employees votes. These establishments had 2-3000 employees mostly Naperville residents. How could they risk losing their support with the Napergate Man on the political horizon with a following that exceeded 3500 Napervillians or Napergatians as some bloggers refer to them?

As you can see this is a long historical story that never ends. Mayor Pradel fixed everything by being professional and not interfering with Chief David Dials employees. Napergate is over as far as Mr. Esmail's remaining liquor license in Naperville.

And finally I stand by Police Chief Dial 100%. I hope it is obvious to you it was not Chief Dial causing all the trouble. It was the former Mayors...all of them and that former Prosecutor and City Attorney. All these character are gone! They no longer work for the city! I am sure there was "secret" pressure to get rid of them after those humiliating IABTF Rulings and Appellant Court Rulings.

Why did Chief Dial survive this explosive Napergate Mess? I believe because he was innocent. I still believe the puck stops at the Mayors. Does anyone on these blogs understand that Chief Dial is a family man and needs to make a living like the rest of us. You all wanted him to stand up to the former Mayors and get fired. Who is going to hire him after he is fired? I believe he is much older these days. Who is suppose to support him?

Do you guys want him living like that poor homeless guy who lives in downtown Naperville outside even in the winter? Even if he made a mistake, can we forgive and forget. This was a massive conspiracy involving way to many people. There are people who may have supported the Famous 5 who will never be uncovered. They may be dead. Chief Dial really had no choice but to look the other way or be fired. He never participated or ordered anyone to do anything. He is guilty of nothing.

The biggest culprit by far in Napergate is Mayor Macrane. By far! In case you don't know he is dead. Let us let Napergate die with Macrane and move on to bigger and better things.

Mr. Esmail told us in Napergate XXXV published on the front page of the Naperville Sun a week ago Sunday, that he wanted to mothball Napergate! Those are his own words. Thanks for pointing that out, Randy. I have been watching and interested in this case from the beginning and yet I somehow missed that mothballing remark. He destroyed his Napergate.com site. It is no longer in existence. With it he destroyed all those 44 Napergate ads that were posted on it. He wanted this whole thing to blow over and be done with. He wanted to move on with his life and be able to walk his dog and talk to his neighbors.

WHY THE SUDDEN AND UNEXPECTED REINCARNATION OF NAPERGATE AFTER IT WAS MOTHBALLED....

He made peace with Mayor Pradel. He made peace with the town. So I am completely puzzled by this sudden reincarnation of Napergate...extremely puzzled. I do not understand it. I do not know how it got out of proportion while Mr. Esmail is simply walking his white dog in his subdivision.

Someone has an ulterior motive. It worries me immensely.

I have no proof but I believe the Furstenau supporters reincarnated Napergate to get back at Police Chief David Dial. It is becoming so obvious to me. They want to make Chief Dial pay for what he did or did not do to Fursteau. They are using the Napegate Case because it is a very powerful and an already proven case. It has been won in the courts over and over again.

Suddenly just by some rare coincidence, DF files a civil right suit and decade old Napergate far and away becomes the hottest topic in Naperville. Who is behind all this "The Puck Stops at Chief Dial." I believe it is the Furtenau supporters...hundreds if not thousands of them on these blogs and on the streets. This is called revenge! This is called vengeance! This is called retaliation! This should not be tolerated! We have to be able to see right thru it.....

My question is this? If Mr. Furstenau and his supporters feel Mr. Esmail was wronged so badly, why did you not come out for him stronger in the late 90s when he was winning all those court battles. Why did you not ask for Chief Dial to resign then? Why now a decade later? The answer is obvious!

Now I am not attacking all bloggers. Some bloggers have an agenda here which is to get Chief Dial fired. Many bloggers seemed to have been dragged in this resurgence of Napergate solely because it is the fascinating case of ONE MAN taking on City Hall repeatedly and defeating them each and every time. A very unique and rare story! Something very unusal anywhere in the USA. Some like Randy, are just trying to defend an old friend who is having his reputation tarnished all over again by bloggers like d.bone. Some like Ameena and Maryann never heard of this case before and have been swept up by the numerous accomplishments and accolades of the Napergate Man, his character, his integrity, his morals, his ethics and his story of steadfast struggle until City Hall was beaten over and over again until they got the message that he would not be thrown out of the Naperville City limits. That is fine! That happened! I don't blame anyone for being fascinated by this case. Every police officer I spoke to was fascinated with this case then and more so now.

My problem is strictly with the Dick Furstenau agents and suppporters that are using this case and this blog site to get back at Chief Dial. I was holding back like Ameena was before making my accusation or if you prefer my allegation. I feel this is the beginning of a soon to be vicious conspiracy against Chief Dial and I intend to defend him with every fiber of my being!

Thanks for allowing me to use your forum to express my views and opinions, Mr. Moderator and Mr.Host!

I have sat back and read these posts many times over the last day and I can't believe how many people have let one person get under their skin like d.bone has done. I believe people are focusing way too much time and energy to try to disprove someone who really doesn't have a lot of credibility in the eye's of many bloggers to begin with. I saw d.bone's post for what it was...a way to get under the skin of many people and get an emotional reaction...he accomplished his goal.

None of us really know if he walked into the liquor store with a "really good fake ID" and bought alcohol as he said...if he did, it doesn't chan