What's the most important issue to you?

I swear it's got to be Gay rights, immigration control and taxes in that order. I cna't believe people are lobying for gay marriage. What an attrocity.

This is a shame on our country. We're one of the countries in the world that put up with it. I believe we should outlaw gay bars, shops and so on that propaganize our children into homosexuality.

There's so much to be said about it. Thank God we don't have any gay bars in Naperville. Thank God there aren't many gays because to fraternize this lifestyle in our city is to accept like in Chicago and look the problems they have.

Secondly, immigration has to be controlled. There is a ton of spending on healthcare, border patrol, incarceration and so on illegal immigrants. I've read in Wall Street that it costs up to $60 billion a year to take care of these illegals.

Thirdly, when are we going to get our money back in taxes? Aren't we taxed enough? I'll say this for Bush, maybe we voted for him and it was a mistake, but at least he's giving us some money back. Naperville to me should give more of the excess funds back to the people.

It's called government, people, not financial managers.

Don't forget about this...
The money that Bush is giving out will need to be claimed as income on your 2008 taxes.
Thanks, Mr. President.
I for one will not be spending it on any luxuries. It will go towards paying my outrageously high property tax bill.

The War in Iraq. I'm Catholic and originally voted for Bush. I feel I made a terrible mistake. The Catholic Church is pro-life and pro-peace. Pope John Paul declared the Iraq war as unjust. There were no weapons of mass destruction, yet we are still there. I'm voting for the only pro-life, pro-peace candidate - Ron Paul.

G. Shaughnessy, you're what's wrong with Naperville and the country in general. Gays are the last class of people that it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against. Why do so many people tolerate this? It's mystifying to me.

Everything you've said is wrong, wrong, wrong. There ARE gay people in Naperville, there are places where gay people congregate, and there is absolutely NO way to "propagandize" children into homosexuality, the very idea is ludicrous. You are either born gay, or you're not, period. I know it's difficult to wrap a narrow mind around it, but please do try. Your hate, intolerance, and ignorance is dismaying.

I guess it's difficult for me to believe that people still actually think like this, and refuse to educate themselves or open their minds. So, yeah, ultimately I would say that gay rights and marriage are definitely an incredibly pressing issue, in Naperville and everywhere else.

Taxes and wasteful government spending.

We can not deficit spend ourselves into prosperity and elected officials think that the cure for the drunk is to give him another drink. From local school boards to Washington DC, the country is run by idiots who can never get enough of your money.

We are facing a financial crisis like never before but the fools think that cheap money and tax and spend is the answer.

The could not be more wrong. Who will lost his job and his home next? You or your neighbor?

http://seekingalpha.com/article/61854-the-worst-market-crisis-in-60-years?source=d_email

Some form of socialized healthcare for every citizen. It is downright depressing to see first hand the results of people stuck in the middle class grey area- making too much money to receive state benefits, but not able to afford health insurance on their own. A close friend of mine lost his father to cancer last year largely due to the simple phrase, "Sorry, you don't qualify."

It is absolutely shameful in this day and age that people are denied medical care in this country when we can pour buckets of money in to countries no one cares about fighting wars that don't belong to us... but not give a red cent to help keep a taxpayer who has worked to pay for the war alive. I'm not sure yet which of the universal health care ideas I like best yet, but something needs to be done.

It wouldn't surprise me if we had a system which promoted free (or affordable for everyone on a sliding scale, similar to Planned Parenthood) preventative care if the overall cost wouldn't be much more than what we're currently spending on Medicare. Currently Medicare is over-burdened by people who have worked their whole lives paying in to social security putting off long-standing medical problems which snowball from being something which could have cheaply and easily been prevented to something which requires intensive care or expensive surgeries.

If you can stomach a Michael Moore "documentary" and can read between the lines of the slant he puts on things, Sicko is worth a look. Having spent nearly eight years now working in the medical industry, I can say with full confidence that even Michael Moore can't accurately portray how evil the medical insurance conglomerates are and how ridiculous healthcare in America is for people who slip in between the cracks of state programs and insurance companies.

We should retire from our current role of Team America: World Police until we have taken care of our own. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with George W. playing real-life G.I. Joes with our armed forces if every American citizen had good healthcare, social security provided for stable retirements, the American dollar is strong, and we just had a surplus of money with nothing left to spend it on. We have too many things wrong with the state of our own country to be meddling in the affairs of others.

Another thing of note is the rights of gays. The amount of hoops a few gay friends of mine need to jump through to get anything accomplished which would be effortless for a married couple is nothing short of idiotic. Christian bigots hiding behind the bible as a platform to spew hatred and inequality will no doubt never give up the fight, but as a reasonable and rational person, I have a hard time working up any kind of superiority complex over anyone regardless of whether or not their significant other is a man or a woman. We need a nationwide ability for two people to form a civil union regardless of sex. Why should the legal benefits of a married couple be limited to a man and a woman?

I'm curious, G. Shaunessy, what "problems" are "the gays" causing in Chicago? Are you still referring to AIDS as GRIDS? Boystown in Chicago is a great area, filled with friendly people and amazingly low crime rates. I'm assuming your entire anti-gay platform revolves around something you heard at church and have done absolutely no research on yourself. Tell you what, I'll agree with your moronic stance of outlawing anything to do with "the gays" if we can outlaw any church or organization that persecutes homosexuals or anyone else the bible tells them to.

Today it was announced that the Democrats want to add to the Bush's "economic stimulus package". It is like the blind leading the blind. 75% of them are fools. We are in desperate need of term limits.

http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/ettahulme;_ylt=AuPdAWJpvrv3yA9zOCK9QJoDwLAF

I wish we could pass an amendment to allow President Bush run again. I would vote for him again. Besides McCain, no one is close to satisfy me. Clintons sat on their hands as Al Qaeda invaded Afganistan, delcared war on us, and started attacking us (ending on 9/11). They did the same as 800,000 Africans were murdered. Then you have Barack Hussein Obama who shouts the same old liberal agenda (Socialzed medicine, higher taxes, more government control and surrender on all fronts). With Bush, we are defeating the enemy on all fronts and we've had a great economy!! Viva BUSH!!

I agree that everyone needs to have affordable health care. I don't know how the government is going to pay for it. We have spent, borrowed, printed and promised 52 trillion dollars into the red. I'm actually scared at what is going to happen in the next 10-20 years. There is no way we can give people what has already been promised. We are headed to bankruptcy. Yet, for some reason nobody is talking about it. Watch this and cringe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-16u9x3tfE

The US Comptroller General (US Top Accountant) and Head of the Government Accountability Office

I've lived in Naperville for 36 years and in that time I've also traveled the world, being exposed to all different cultures. The Eastern world in particular does not approve of homosexuality. They say much of the society's problems are because of the liberal culture of the West and homosexuality.

I'm not saying that we should discriminate against homosexuals. I'm saying, that they should not be legally binded in marriage. If this were the case, why can they no bear children?

I know Naperville has a few homosexuals but mostly they have moved out to areas in Chicago. And the problems I'm referring to in Chicago is the massive drug, meth problems in Wrigleyville. It is causing problems for the area there and is a venue for gangbangers and drug dealers to fight over turf to sell drugs.

All I'm saying, is gays and homosexuals have to consider the rights of us Naperville residents who care about the way our city runs and the city is held up. If we can positively say that gay marriage makes this country better, then I don't see how.

If you think about it, Naperville is really a great place to not abide by homosexual rights. And since when did sexual preference become a race or minority?

There are people who enjoy sex with blindfolds on, should they have taxing, insurance and other legal privileges?

Please. This really tells me you people don't know what you're talking about. Hiding behind the Bible. Why are so many liberals threatened by The Bible?

The average person sins every day and doesn't abide by the Bible and doesn't seem threatened. Consider that socialized guilt might be the real issue here.

I love how people who are against Obama always feel the need to emphasize his middle name as if he was somehow related to Saddam Hussein. You really need to come up with a stronger argument than pointing out his extremely common middle name.

Husayn, Hussein, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used. In Turkish it is Hüseyin. -Wikipedia

John Miller, answer me this, why is policing the world a burden the American taxpayers need to bear before fixing our own problems? Isn't that the job of the United Nations, which we contribute to with many other countries? I'm confused which parallel universe you live in where we have defeated any enemy or we have a great economy.

I suppose we succeeded in assassinating Saddam Hussein, but what else have we done? Killed a bunch of random civilians and completely destroyed the surrounding infrastructure (which no doubt we will also pay to rebuild). Terrorist groups are decentralized, even if we killed Osama bin Laden it wouldn't do much if anything to affect the zeal of Al-Qaeda or their desire to kill people who disagree with their beliefs. Before you go touting about the defeating of enemies on "all fronts", I encourage you to find a few soldiers currently in the field to email, or if that's too much, watch some of the interviews on YouTube of soldiers talking about what it's like over there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0mCydl8KP0

...and many others. I promise you, we're not defeating anything but our worldwide reputation.

As far as the economy... what? If the economy is so good, why is the Fed constantly fiddling with the interest rates? Why is the American dollar doing so poorly against other currencies? Why are we as a country in so much debt? Why are there talks of tax rebates to stave off a recession? Why is the housing market in shambles and why are there so many foreclosures?

You need to lower your stereotypical Naperville reality distortion field for a few minutes. Chances are you will be shocked with what you see.

G. Shaunessy, you really need to go back to school and take some kind of debate class before you make yourself look even more foolish. Who in the Eastern world says society's problems can all be blamed on homosexuals? Have a source for that? It's a pretty bold claim to make, surely you've got something to back it up aside from "Well, I'm a WORLD TRAVELLER!"

In your previous post you said you think that gay bars and shops should be outlawed, and now you're saying we shouldn't discriminate against gay people? Which is it? That's like saying, "I don't think we should discriminate against black people but I think they should sit in the back of the bus and not drink from the drinking fountains."

Where are you getting your data from for how many gay households live in Naperville and how many have migrated to Chicago? Do you have an actual source aside from, "Well they said at Church Group..."? Blaming meth problems on homosexuals? Are you serious? I'm absolutely dying to see where you're pulling these "facts" from.

Here's something which might be an amazing revelation to you: Different people believe different things. How is your rigid anti-gay belief structure contributing to anything? I assume you're all worked up over the strict Christian definition of marriage between a man and a woman, but believe it or not, different people believe in different things! Some people aren't active in a church at all and choose to get married in front of a judge! Those heretics!

By allowing gay couples to form a civil union they would be able to take advantage of the same tax benefits, health insurance benefits, and everything else that married men and women take for granted. Please note, the CIVIL UNION part, as in, formal paperwork with the US government which signifies them as a couple. This is NOT the same as two men walking down the aisle in your conservative church and being married under the watchful eye of your discriminatory god. No one is ever going to force you and your anti-gay knitting circle to ever change their ways.

Answer me this, how is allowing two gay people to form a civil union infringing on YOUR rights? How does two men or two women forming a legal bond have ANY impact on your sheltered and bigoted life? How is Naperville not as good of a place as any to respect all people regardless of what people do in the bedroom?

Liberals aren't threatened by the bible, they're just tired of attempting to talk sense in to people who will not listen to logic or reason and instead just blindly follow whatever their pastor tells them the meaning of a 2000 year old book is. You believe homosexuality is a sin, that's fine, but how are your beliefs more important or correct than anyone else's beliefs? How can you as a good Christian rather that gay people are not afforded the same benefits you are? What happened to live and let live or good will towards all men? Do they not preach that at your church? What would Jesus think of your complete willingness to extend extra hardships upon people for no reason other than they live a slightly different lifestyle as yours?

Before responding, please try to cite some actual sources for your next argument which no doubt will be just as precious and insightful as the previous two.

Eli,
You are a great blogger. I noticed that articulate Ameena girl picked you Best Blogger and said many nice things about you.
Now I finally see why!

She even states you motivated her to launch a study of this Napergate Story/Saga/Fiasco/Case and she has been living in the library because of you researching the Napergate Man.

I can finally see why Ameena ranked you NO. 1 and I want to second her motion. Too bad you and Ameena spend your time on 2 different threads. I have to constantly switch threads to keep up with both of your articulate writings and great knowledge!

I wish I knew how to find that old thread so I could vote for you. You really are awesome in your logic and thoughts!

Back to the Napergate thread to see if anything is going on there with Ameena and folks!

Eli- Trying hard to be an intellectual again, I see. Too bad you failed. I am in 100% agreement with John Miller. I'm so proud of our current President. The incredibly difficult choices that he has successfully made. I'm so proud to say I voted for him. There are numerous people in the radical, Muslim regimes that want to slaughter us. Period. Why? Because we are infidels and do not believe in their God. If we did not go to war and kill as many of these extremists as we could, more Americans would be murdered. That is indisputable. Civilian casualties are always present. That's a sad fact of war. Our military has done EVERYTHING to insure that civilians aren't in the cross-fire. Specialized bombs, street combat so they can selectively assassinate, and the list goes on. You mention to find a few soldiers in the field to discuss how they feel. That's a terrific idea! Don't just watch the random youTube specials- - find 'real' soldiers, marines, air force, rangers- - Any! I can help. My brother- A ranger. My father is in the Air Force. Two dear friends are entrenched in ops., and the list goes on. The stories they share with me are amazing. Huge strides in the "perception" of us Americans, water to villiages that havn't had fresh water in nearly a decade, toys distributed to children with none, countless acts of medical care given civilians when no optons were previously available, numerous pictures of happy locals from Iraq and Afganistan with our armed forces- - so many smiles from the children. I'm so proud of each of them. God bless our soldiers and our President!!

You should consider yourself lucky then if your friends and family have nothing but good things to say about their experiences in the Middle East. I've kept in close contact with a few friends of mine from high school who have served multiple tours in Iraq (and one in Afghanistan), and recently started talking to a few college friends who share the same fate through FaceBook. All of them have shared the same journey of being proud and excited to defend our country in the wake of 9/11 to being depressed, wanting to go home, and feeling hopeless fighting a war that isn't ours as the years go on.

Somehow I don't think that handing out some soccer balls or assisting villages with getting fresh water makes up for destroying entire cities and murdering countless civilians in the process on a terrorist wild goose chase. It's all worth it though, right? We've got to get those bastards for 9/11, regardless of how many women and children stand in our way!

Don't forget that the majority of the reasons those places have had little to no infrastructure is because of the fact that we destroyed it over the past decades.

And we sit here and have the audacity to wonder why on earth anyone would have any animosity towards the US. I would imagine you would have some animosity if another country bombed all of our power plants, factories, railways, bridges, water plants, communications networks, etc.

Actually I find myself agreeing with G. Shaunessy. He may not be articulate but he does tell the truth.

There is a burden on society by adding homosexual ventures like there are in Chicago's north east area.

I find that the area is not safe for children since there are many sex shops on the strip that I wouldn't want my children to see. It's one thing to claim homosexuality as a lifestyle, but to flaunt the (private) nature of sex in public doesn't seem fitting for a place or town like Naperville.

My nephew is gay and does struggle with his identity, but that's OK. But I don't believe he would ever flaunt his sexuality in front of my children...much less if he were heterosexaul.

This campaign does have to consider the abolishment of gay marriage throughout the country. I think it's a top priority.

How is an establishment that promotes gay sex any worse than an establishment that promotes straight sex? Where are the angry mobs outside of the Diamonds Gentleman's Club in West Chicago, the Denmark Adult Entertainment Center on Route 30, or the Lover's Lane on Ogden? All three of these businesses promote sex, just not necessarily gay sex. Does this make them OK?

Isn't the problem flaunting sex, regardless of whether it's straight or gay? If you agree with that, then how is flaunting gay sex any worse than flaunting straight sex?

And of course you wouldn't bring your kids to Boystown, just like you wouldn't bring your kids to the Las Vegas strip, or the red light district in New Orleans.

Eli,
I think you'd be amazed on how soccer balls, fresh water to those who had none, and consistent, quality medical care make an incredible impact on the Iraqi and Afgani people. We are making a difference. As to your comment; "It's all worth it though, right? We've got to get those bastards for 9/11, regardless of how many women and children stand in our way!" Well, that's not true. Most of those "bastards" killed themselves along with our innocent people. Including my best friend and her 4 month old daughter. The war is about fighting the extreme terrorist who want to slaughter us for being infidels and not worthy of life. They hate us so much. I pray that the next President, be it Democrat or Republican, recognizes this real threat and does everything possible to stop them. It's a scary time, and people that don't grasp the magnitude of what is going on scare me even more.

Oh my. Religion, politics, and sex all in one topic. Gosh what a great combo. Potluck you must be so proud.

To be honest I (a gay 10+ year partnered male) have found nothing but support and inclusion from the people we have encounter in Naperville. I did not know what to think when we built our home and moved in. But from the time the first welcome cookies arrived until now I have been very happy. I wanted to say that first because I think these posts make Naperville out to be something I have not percieved or witnessed. Most my neighbors just want gardening advice :)

Some of these posts talk like we (GLBT community) are a group of people that do not exist in Naperville. We are here in Naperville. We are not here to change your kids. We are here to raise our own as best we can. We pay taxes. We have strong relationships that we would like acknowledged. Oh yeah we are damn proud! We are proud of your nephew Brenda. We will pray that some day he flows with pride!

It is fine to NOT support our ability to create a union. People have different opinions. Just know yours side is weakening :) Hence, the panic to try and change the constitution. It is however NOT fine to stereotype our lives as drug filled and sex shop laden. That is just plain silly. As with all groups, it takes all kinds. We do however all like show tunes. So, if we could get a piano bar downtown that would be excellent. (kidding)

And Brenda I am horrified the most by your post. The sad thing is you probably do not even realize how condescending and rude that was.

Oh, if by chance there is some younger person who happened upon all this rhetoric and hate, know that the world has and continues to change. Also, take solace in the fact these ideas will die out with the people who think them. There was a time when people thought women and people of color should not vote. And now we have woman and an African American running for president. That is pretty darn cool.

Brenda, could you (or one of your contemporaries in this thread) explain to me why you think gay marriage should be illegal? I'm just curious to see what actual facts you have to support your argument. So far I have seen none here.

(hint: the Bible is not generally considered a factual text by historians OR scientists)

Dear Eli

I can’t tell you how vein you sound. Aren’t you the one who likes to film people when they walk out of bars? That’s creepy.

The meth problem is affecting the gay community.

http://mesh.medill.northwestern.edu/mnschicago/archives/2005/05/gaymeth_there_s.html

First off, I’m not even bringing the Bible into conversation here. But you might want to consider this evidence of a supernatural existence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNocC85MU6w

(By the way, I’m not even Catholic. I’m Budist.)

Anyway, the gay community is a major concern for Naperville. That would be an atrocity probably because we’ll see Eli in chaps.

For the way the city is run, we have to be kind to people but why do we have to allow them the privilege of a legal union? It doesn’t make sense.

People who prefer intercourse a certain way is not a race or ethnicity.

Anyway, you need to consider what homosexuality does to children. Doesn’t it confuse them? You can’t possibly tell me that children aren’t misled by sexual deviance in this day.

Me, I pray that you and your liberal friends will understand that Naperville is not about to turn into a free-for-all. This community has stayed great because it hangs on to its past. Family values come first around here.

Just for the record, there are two people that are "anonymous" on this page. I'm not here to argue about the bible. I do believe in "just war" (war when attacked, etc.). The war in Iraq does not qualify as a just war. Most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. No link has ever been made between Iraq and OBL. I don't have a problem with hunting down OBL. Al Qaeda is in 62 countries. Are we going to attack them all? One of the things I like about Ron Paul is his ethics and common sense. He also wants to stay out of your life. If you want to make a contract with someone of the same sex, that is your business. I have to agree.

I’m so disappointed that more of Naperville doesn’t agree with me. I’ve lived here all my life, except for a few years in the military, and I always found Naperville to be the one place where you didn’t have to worry about a gay district like the one found in Chicago.

In this case, it would be terrible to think men would flaunt themselves by openly kissing in public. What would I say to my kids?

I’m so embarrassed to even think about it.

You all seem like fine people, and I hope you understand, that I love my nephew. I love him so much and he has a great relationship with the family.

But he would never talk about sex, like the sex shops in Chicago and San Francisco and east Philadelphia .

It’s not just an adult area, but regular communities.

I’m not Catholic, I actually believe in a higher power, but I’m not sure if homosexuality is to blame for much of the Catholic Church’s problems when dealing with their clergy.

I’m not talking about the poor sexually abused victims. I’m talking about the people who hide in the clergy to avoid their homosexual tendencies.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26940

It’s fine that Naperville is welcoming and kind to people; but what are we trying to promote?

I could be the only one. But I find that Brenda and G. Shaunessy may be nuts. But that’s OK because I do agree with them. I think there are some serious problems—drug abuse and sexually promiscuous culture—that stem from the gay community.

It’s not just as simple as trying to dissuade people from setting up shop in Naperville. It’s really a ridiculous assertion.

B. Jackson,

"The war is about fighting the extreme terrorist who want to slaughter us for being infidels and not worthy of life. They hate us so much."

That's a great argument for invading Afghanistan. Iraq? Not so much.

The Catholic Priest problem you are referring to is pedophilia. Some heterosexuals are pedophiles too. It is a completely different issue. I don't think anyone is defending pedophiles.

I feel everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.

I understand the difference between pedophillia and homosexuality. What I'm implying is homosexuals often use Catholic Church as a way to hide their sexual tendencies rather than be in the open about it.

And what better way to do that than the Church?

I'm concerned as to whether people really believe homosexuality is a nature issue rather than a nurture issue. The evidence is unclear at this point, although, I'll be fair and admit that some of the evidence does lend itself to be something people are born with.

However, if we are dismissing God in this discussion and his role, we are inviting evolution into the discussion. And that tells you that we evolve to survive, so doesn't homosexuality contradict the notion of survival since gays can't mate?

And if we are the same as animals in DNA (98 % with apes), why aren't there any homosexual animals? Why is it that we don't homosexuality in the animal world?

I love how this comment thread has largely degenerated in to flat out gay bashing.

G. Shaunessy, you 're kind of grasping at straws here at this point. I really find it to be impossible to believe that the majority of Naperville lives in terror that THE GAYS might invade their quaint little town. Also, I think the first order of business the next time you practice your religion is learning how to properly spell its name. That would seem to me to be kind of important, but what do I know. "I'm Budist".... Hahaha. Should I be taking offense in you accusing me of being gay? I imagine calling someone any number of slurs for a gay person is an A-1 top grade insult in your social circles.

Brenda, it's not surprising to hear you spent time in the military. Most extreme homophobes were trained to be that way, they really did a number on you it would seem. You're embarrassed to even think about what you would have to tell your kids if you saw men kissing? If I were you I'd be more embarrassed to be passing your prejudices down to your kids.

You think your nephew would never talk about sex? You've got another thing coming.

It must really anger you two that the idea of hating people because they're different will largely die with your generation. Better work extra hard on training your kids to be anti-gay super soldiers to keep the bigotry alive.

Brenda,

People do not genetically have to be parents to be parents to children. There are over 100K children currently awaiting adoption who need homes. If a loving couple wants to give that child a home and provide for them, then I'm all for that. What they do in the bedroom is no more my business than it is yours. What your neighbor does in their bedroom is not your business either and what you personally do in the bedroom is no one else's business either.

I don't advocate hate. This is a dismissive message by people who have alternate point of views. Why blame the military. It seems young Eli has the classic liberal stance--a la Bill Maher--that they are gay bashers and are taught to do so.

Very original. Let us know when you come up with an original thought.

I'm trying to say Naperville is much better off as a community without gay bars and gay cafes. Funny enough, Eli, I believe you're the one person who lives in the downtown area and still complain about the noise.

When we expand our costumer base to the gay community, it will get much busier.

I'm done with this now. I'd seriously think twice about bashing the military again, Eli, you're reputation as a window-camera-bearing liberal depends on it.

I can't say I agree with this war, but as far as same-sex unions, I have my doubts. I don't know if people elaborated my feelings about here, but it doesn't make you a bigot if you're not prepared to dismiss your life-long values about a marriage between a man and woman.

It's easy to label someone with hatred or prejudice when you don't agree with their opinion. That's the bipartisan way in this country: If you don't agree with me, you must be a communist or a fascist.

Look back, even leading Democratic presidential candidates don't support a same-sex union. Are they called hate-mongers?

I noticed there is some unfriendly and familiar banter going on here on this blog about the issue. To me its repetitive and ineffective.

Most importantly, it silly. Just because someone disagrees with a same-sex union, doesn't mean that person hates homosexuals or wants to cause harm to them.

It may mean their reluctant to hand over "privileged" rights to people. Use the women and minority defense for voting if you like--it's a decent analogy--but I don't see how this falls into the same category.

This isn't about voting rights, the right to live freely--it's really about a reduction in taxes and insurance costs...that's it.

Tell me why else it's so important to be acknowledged legally by the state to have a marriage?

Honestly, there are plenty of wonderful, decent homosexuals out there--as there are heterosexuals. There are plenty of bad, scummy homosexuals out there--as there are heterosexuals.

It's never a blanket. It's never all-encompassing.

But please, save yourself from calling us bigots because we are not prepared to acknowledge a legal same-sex union.

Dear Brenda,

I hope you take the time to educate yourself before you make more of a fool of yourself.

There are, in fact, homosexual animals in the animal kingdom. Homosexuality does NOT "contradict the notion of survival since gays can't mate", that's got to be the most grossly uneducated statement I've ever heard. If this were true, genetic diseases such as Tay-Sachs would be obliterated entirely, since the children who are unfortunate enough to be born with it die before they are anywhere near an age to reproduce. Have you never taken a basic biology or anthropology class in your life? If not, I suggest that you do.

I can't believe the willful ignorance I'm seeing here, along with the outright bigotry and hateful ideas in the above comments, and I hope with all my heart that what I've read isn't an accurate cross-section of the opinions of the people of Naperville.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

Fancy Chancy, I do not think you’re hateful because you question same sex unions. I think a variety of the posts hide hateful/ignorant comments inside the union argument. For instance, imagine if I said a certain race tends to have a larger drug and crime problem than other races; therefore, I do not think they should be in our town. That is just plain ignorant. However, that has been said above and as you might imagine I find that disgusting. That stuff I label as hate. But if people want to talk about gay unions fore/against or even if being gay is nature vs. nurture I think those are all interesting topics.

Gay unions are a hot potato topic that will go on for a long time. It is not just a tax benefit, it’s about little things (sarcasm) like being able to make critical decisions for someone in the case of medical emergency. Of course we do things like create living trusts, ensure all titles are in each other’s names, and sign power of attorney documents. And yes there is also the feeling of being a second class citizen when I am a groomsman or usher for the 100th time. I know that does not count for much when you are in the majority.

I know there is a lot of fear out there about this subject. The Brenda’s of the world are not uncommon. Heck my father’s family values are such that he will not speak to me.

And please save me from this liberal label. Yes, by the way social conservatives have defined their movement you would have to be nuts to be gay and not a social liberal. That does not mean everyone one of us accepts everything in the social liberal agenda. You might also find there are a lot of us that are staunch fiscal conservatives. But, well the current republicans seem to have lost touch with that notion of their party. Show me a moderate social liberal/conservative with a fiscal conservative bent and I will show you a vote!

And Anonymous | January 30, 2008 09:27 AM, these posts are not reflective of the Naperville I live in. Posts out here typically are polarized on either side of the issue. If we all were centrists, the content would not be very interesting :)

I am gay and I don't live in Naperville anymore for much of the reasons posted on this blog. They are offensive and outdated. This is why people see Naperville as this stupid elitist city.

It's troubling to my family as well, who still live there.

Eli, the Lover's Lane on Ogden promotes sex like the Denmark? Just a little hyperbole I hope. Do not watch MTV or you’ll have a heart attack. Morals are passé, in our schools, our lives, and in business. Disgusting isn’t it?

Jim, I couldn't agree more. This character, Eli, not the quarterback, likes to tout his ideals but has not concrete plans to solve any problems.

I don't think it's beyond reason to not approve gay bars in Naperville. I'm sorry the city is not prepared for that and neither are its people.

G. Shaunessy,

You are aware there are gay business owners already throughout the city, aren't you?

So far, the city has done just fine with that, as testified by your previous high regards and praises to the city's current condition and moral superiority.

Well, at least the problems inside the naperville police dept. weren't mentioned as a leading problem. Let's see,ch.d. dial is the front man to give illegals driving certificates,at least two federal civil rights violations are pending,with the possibility of more, several officers have been accused of lying in a investigation,double-dipping is not a hobby but a science,etc. Like the former n-resident said, at least we can still beat on the gays.

I'm not aware of which business owners are gay in Naperville. Who?

And that's not the point. I don't believe the town needs gay bars or gay sex stores that promote sexual culture like they do in the Lakeview neighborhood in Chicago.

The gay pride parade is a very sexual event. (I'd like to hear a counter point on that one since they walk around with leather and harnesses in the streets.)

It doesn't bother me that there are gay people in Naperville; it bothers me that we don't see a sexually promisicous culture.

As a Buddhist, it's troubling because I don't believe there is one way to an answer. An answer can be reached by several means. This isn't as simple as just letting gay bars and gay businesses into the city.

We want to protect what's here.

"I'm not aware of which business owners are gay in Naperville. Who?"
- G. Shaunessy

Wow, who cares? Would you like for them to put pink triangles outside their places of business. Maybe we should all wear them in the town limits. We can be marked and can be easily watched. That worked pretty well for the Nazi’s in the concentration camps.

You are truly silly and like most people of hate rather ignorant.

G. Shaunessy,

I'm not about to tell you who because if you don't know then you don't need to know and they don't want you to know. That's their private life and it is none of your business. Most in that lifestyle do not flaunt it out there like the extreme examples you have tossed out here in your postings. That would be like saying all Christians are bad because of the deeds of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church and therefore are not welcome in this town. It's called stereotyping and prejudice, and it's wrong.

It's true that stereotyping can do harmful things--even people who have certain sexual preferences.

But I'm saying that one of the biggest issues in this presidential race should be the abolition of gay marriage because it simply contradicts the institution of a family.

Naperville, of all places, shouldn't have to deal with this issue first hand.

G. Shaunessy

Now we've moved from stereotyping to scapegoating, which is just as bad if not worse.

I do not believe for a minute that the breakdown of the American family and the dismal statistic of divorces and the consequential harm to children's lives has anything to Gay marriage.

Heterosexual couples are messing up the institution of a family just fine on their own. How many heterosexual marriages are destroyed because one of the partners is Gay? Most are because men do not want to be responsible to anyone other than what is in their underwear and chase the next short skirt, tossing away the mother for a younger and more naive model to get their lustful jollies. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. NOTHING.

But please, prove everyone wrong and show us any documented statistic that says Gay Marriage is responsible for the breakdown in current heterosexual marriages and causing heterosexual couples to bust up. I'll even settle for anything approaching 10%. Personally I would think you'd be lucky to find any documented half of a percent, but please, prove us wrong.

Ah comprimise. I toally agree stereotyping can do harmful things and hopefully we can keep that to a minimum in the future.

I am totally fine with you pushing the gay marriage issue. It's a controversial concept and I do not fault people for the strong feelings on either side. Really most of us just want civial unions anyway.

If we don't see gay marriage as threat, then where does it end. Please someone prove to me that this is something that homosexuals are born with.

Will we allow a man and another man to get married?

What if a man wants to make love to a monkey and get married to a monkey?

Do chimps and apes have marital rights?

To me this is the same since a man and man can't mate, nor can a man and a monkey.

It didn't take long for people wanting to push some liberal agenda into our fair old town like Naperville. All I'm saying is it's OK to be Gay, it's OK to be heterosexual,

but that doesn't mean we have to push a gay agenda on people.

Pelty,

No one here is trying to push a Gay Agenda on anyone. What I am reading is the pushing of an ANTI-GAY agenda.

Joe I complete agree ;)

And Brenda I thought you left after all your hateful comments about your own nephew? What is it with all the beastiality? Is that what they are teacing homophobic people these days? Yuck! :)

"If we don't see gay marriage as threat, then where does it end. Please someone prove to me that this is something that homosexuals are born with."

Are homosexuals born gay? Who knows? Is it a conscious choice? Well, I can answer that question with a question: Given the amount of homophobia in our society, why on Earth would anybody CHOOSE to be gay?

"To me this is the same since a man and man can't mate, nor can a man and a monkey."

If the ability to produce off-spring is a necessary requirement for marriage, should we outlaw marriage for heterosexual couples who are infertile or past child-bearing age?

Host,
I see Cindy's point about the Napergate thread will be off the main page soon in some kind of lightning speed after you guys added so many posts so quickly and suddenly in the last few days. Have you considered summarizing the long introduction to many of your threads while putting links to more information as you actually do with many of them. This will allow you to have more threads on the Main Page where better than 95% of the bloggin seems to be done.

This makes more sense to me since it allows us to have a thread on a little longer while we unravel the issues concerning it. I personally only blog on the main page.

I was bloggin on that huge Furstenau thread of 300+ plus but I noticed when it got off the front page it really died. But that one was running out of steam anyway.

The Napergate thread seems to be gaining steam with time almost the opposite of any other thread which seem to peter out after a week. . Very unusual for any thread I have seen before. I am just guessing because it is an older story it takes people a little longer to get interested as they need to become familiar with this really incredible story about the struggle of one man that against City Hall that became the largest political movement Naperville has ever seen.

But it seems once the bloggers become familiar, they all want to write books or at least chapters. Most of what is written is factual or good opinion. The only ridiculous controversy was d. bone. Your bloggers gave him a blow he has never seen or even imagined could happen. I guess when you dispose filth, filth will return to those who dispose it. When Ameena used one wrong word and Kevin called her out, she apologized immediately avoiding another controversy we did not need after the d. bone nightmare.

Back to bloggin. I was a big time blogger on the Ponds of Hobson West and was enjoying it. Even visited my old Dentist's Home as you may recall. However it was taken off the Main Page and suddenly died. Only one post from Jan 20 to Jan 27. That one post was by the Host, I guess you Ted since I am writing to you, but it came too late and no one seemed to have figured out Ted(you) answered a question everyone was asking. Mostly because it came off the Main Page and your answer came after that. All those who had asked you that question you answered, never knew you answered it. It all went out the window for 2 reason. 1.Your response took too long. 2. By the time you responded people had already been asked to exit the boat as it was departing the dock!

Regarding your comment that " Napergate is No. 6, behind a couple of Furstenau posts and behind the "Ponds of Hobson West." I think you are wrong. Ponds of Hobson West had only 142 posts with myself being by far the most active. This Napergate thread had 201 hits in less than half the time. It might be 3,4 or 5. Not sure except but it surpassed Ponds of Hobson West by 59 and it has so much more written in it. Like 10 times as much in number of words. The blogs are all long and informative. No one wrtie one sentence... They write real letters. The fact the letters are so long on Napergate, indicates people have a passion about this subject and can't stop writing when they get into it.

Anyway I loved Ponds of Hobson West thread and visited the actual site to try to be an eyewitness instead of a blogger. I felt like a reporter for the first time. It was fun but I was nervous being there since the house was so old and creepy plus it was a flood plain. But this Napergate thread is just much more energizing than the Ponds of Hobsot West. thread. That post got depressing when only 5 people went to the City Council. I think we needed to get back to Napergate 101 to learn how to get a grassroots organization going. I think if we did not have distractions like d. bone we could actually learned quicker from studying the Napergate Man how to get a grassroots movement going.

I noticed Kevin made a suggestion about learning and many responded positively. Please see what you can do, Host, to keep this post on the Main Page for another week or two if possible. The proof is in the pudding as my former favorite post died instantly after you took it off. Please check what I am saying and you will see what I mean. One post after you removed it for an entire week...only your post. So that is proof that you are wrong and in most cases with some exceptions a post will die a sudden death when it is booted off the Main Page. In my opinion a very hot topic on any subject should remain on the Main Page until it cools off.

I think that Furstenau thread of 338 posts was an indication of your success on these blogs. That was the first major thread regarding politics and not school districts.
This is the second major political thread. That thread was on for over a month. I would like to see Napergate stay on for over a month as I am curious if people are more interested in Furstenau or Napergate. Plus this Napergate thread is showing the power of the print media something the Napergate Man showed over and over again.
He got his grassroots movement from his Napergate ads right in your newspaper. Your newspaper really helped him achieve his goals. I am assuming you are using your print addition to achieve your goals. In this case being to increase your bloggers. I saw so many new bloggers come on the Napergate thread because of one story that was finally told in your print edtition, I was extremely impressed. You gave the blog momentum because of your newsprint front page heading of Napergate...big momentum! Let us see where this momentum will take us. You should not only find a way to keep the Napergate Thread on the Main Page but supplement it with another article in your print edition. Fursteanau got tons of press in your paper daily. So I am not surprised with the strength of the DF post. But Napergate only got one story so I am really surprised with the strength and momentum of the Napergate thread.

You guys are doing a much better job with avoiding duds. I am glad you responded to I think Maryann who got you to delete 4 "one or two blog posts" and save some hot ones earlier. I hope you can do something for this Napergate thread now that everyone calmed down and wants to debate again instead of argue with the host and moderator. It is the last thread on the Main Page. So the next thread you add, you will kill an awesome educational thread. Even if it is historical, many of us would love to learn the history of Naperville especially since it does pertain to the present and future or at least may have an effect on it.

In summary, I strongly believe taking Napergate thread off the main page will kill its momentum that has been gaining steam by the day. Look at what happened here after the first Napergate only had 33. I think your print edition got this one going. Very fitting for the Napergate Man who knew the value of your print edition by advertising both political and liquor ads..

Response from host:

Check out our new Napergate category, a convenient one-stop shop to find all the threads about Napergate! The length of the introduction in no way affects the number of threads appearing on the home page. I shortened up a couple of the intros anyway.

If Eli can respond, please. What is the best way to respond to bloggers like these who think homosexuality is an evil in this society?

I thought I would review this thread to learn what was on voters' minds the day before Super Tuesday. What a disappointment to see that this thread has degenerated into a discussion about homosexuality. Wake up people! Is this really the MOST important issue in your empty, pathetic little lives? Geez, I find Brenda's posts the most disturbing, and I feel for her nephew.

I'm straight and happily married, but I have a cousin who is gay, and she's been in a committed relationship with a wonderful partner for over 12 years. They have 2 beautiful, intelligent children. Civil unions are fine with me. Gay marriage is fine with me.

1 out of 2 marriages in this country end in divorce. Guess what? Those are heterosexual folks causing the "destruction of marriage." Why don't you all spend more time trying to help us "straighties" who've brought disgrace to the institution of marriage, and spend less energy worrying about gay people. Put your energy into developing workshops for couples considering marriage. Since disagreements about money are often cited as a reason for divorce, how about creating some financial workshops for couples considering marriage. Look at the number of foreclosures in Naperville. It's apparent that plenty of people here could use some financial counseling.

I am not a fan of PDA (public display of affection) whether it be a straight or gay display. I guess Brenda doesn't take her kids anywhere because PDA is everywhere: Riverwalk, malls, high school parking lots. Ever been driving by Naperville North or Central when school lets out? Brace yourself, Brenda, because PDA is going to be smack dab in your face.

And before Brenda bashes me as a left-wing loon, I am an Independent who votes based upon the candidate. I've voted for both Democrats and Republicans. I am a fiscal conservative with more liberal views socially.

Seriously, though, I hope voters will consider national security, the economy, education, and healthcare when casting their votes. These are most important to me.

OK. I'm thinking about hosting a workshop at possibly North Central College to address these issues in a public forum.

I think it would be helpful for someone like myself to become educated in some of the lingering homosexuality issues that are prevalent in the country--more specifically Naperville.

If I'm wrong about some of these issues, the point of views, then I think I'm going to own up to some of the viewpoints I have. Would it be too much to have a civilized discussion on how society would be better today when talking about same-sex unions, would it be too much to hash out ideas together and maybe put them into effect?

I don't know who I'm voting for when November rolls around, but I do know that I'm trying to better understand what's important in this country.

I've spoken with my nephew recently and he said he'd be willing to attend the workshop. He's happy I'm taking a new approach.

Would you bloggers be interested in attending this workshop at the Student Center at 7:30 p.m., Feb. 13?

I think I can present some interesting facts at this workshop, but I'm also hoping to be enlightened.

Brenda Ruzich--

Note from host:

The Sun would definitely be interested in covering such a forum, if you would permit us, and we could help get out the word ahead of time.

This I got to see. After everything that was mentioned here in the blog, i have to see if this is just some front to get people to listen to loose scientific data on homosexuality--or actual, real, people getting down to business together.

And Brenda, I'm glad you put your last name to the blog. Maybe you have a little more courage than i thought.

If this is for real, I'll be there. I'm always interested in public forums...especially where we can talk about the real issues without hiding behind a blog. I'll be there, once this is set in stone. Put down attendance for me: two people.

I appreciate your offer and your desire to get people together to discuss the issues. After the "What if a man wants to make love to a monkey and get married to a monkey?", I just can not take you seriously. I wish you well on your endeavors.

From my perspective, I am in a union of 10 years and now someone is asking me to come and defend it. I would also assume you want me to defend my lifestyle as well. What if someone called your marriage into question after that much time?

We live in different worlds and I fear your is too far from mine.

Answering some of the blogs above. I am interested in hearing input from everyone. I am a 52-year-old mother of two and this is a subject that shouldn't be swept under the carpet.

I won't be pushing any material on anyone; it's meant to be an open forum. Everyone can have a chance to speak on it. I'm embarrassed to say that the people who are most adamant about their views, often do not want to speak about them publicly.

I feel this will be a friendly forum for everyone; it's something that could be good for Naperville.

I will be there. I have some point of views that need to be heard. I'm hurt by a lot of the comments here and I know Naperville is a much better place than we're giving it credit for.

Maye some people are afraid to give their point of view in public because they are afraid of the ridicule that they receive. I know I wouldn't be excited about Brenda's comments or material that she might be passing out the day of. And who knows how some of the other people will feel. Your nephew has agreed to come but what does that really mean?

I don't feel any better about him showing.

I'd be willing to show if I hear more about it.

The economic mess (jobs going overseas, foreclosures, deficit, etc), Iraq and illegal immigration.
The four main candidates are clueless about these issues.
John "I don't know anything about the economy" McCain
Barak "Promise them everything while singing unity and change" Obama
Hillary " the Senator from Punjab" Clinton
Mitt "let's cut taxes more and raise the deficit" Romney

All four are bought and owned by corporations and are not for the working men and women of this country. I thought Bush was terrible. I fear these four even more.