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Napergate man unmasked

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The Naperville Police Department complied with our Freedom of Information Act request for a report of the July 8, 2006 arrest of Basim Esmail, the liquor store owner behind the series of Napergate ads that ran in The Naperville Sun years ago. Here's a copy of what they gave us.

Download file

Not surprisingly, the report offers no insight whatsoever into what prompted police to run the plates or pull over Esmail in the first place. The report does include a grainy reproduction of the mug shot of the elusive Esmail.

The Naperville Police Department's Feb. 24, 2008 letter accompanying the release of the report includes the statement, "We are only able to release to you a copy of the adult arrest involved in this incident since adult arrests are public knowledge."

What could that mean?

So, as promised, here's the report many of you have been waiting to see. It only raises more questions instead of providing any answers. The mystery deepens.

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405 Comments

Mr. John Q. Public and Ms. Jane Q. Public,

I have to commend you both on the choice of your cute names.

I just want to point out that I learned in the last few days that the Naperville Police Computers are tied to the State Police Computers. The significance of this is the NPD could not alter the time that the Napergate Man's plate was checked or how many other plates were checked by the police on that intersection.

If for example Sgt. Greg Bell ran his plates when he first arrived, at say midnight, and he was arrested at 215am, according to attorneys in my husband's law firm, this would clearly prove his plate was not run in those 55 seconds he was driving before being arrested. There is a time stamp by the State Police that exists!

If Sgt. Bell ONLY ran the Napergate Man's plate and no other plate, between midnight and 2:10am, it will show the Napergate Man's plate was selectively targeted and not run in a random fashion. If this may be the case it spells, a bit of trouble for Sgt. Bell and the Naperville Police Dept, yet one more time, in this very long 2 decades saga of the abuse of Napergate Man.

Only Chief David Dial and the NPD really know what happened that fateful evening. They are never going to tell us!

Host Ted has been right from day one. Unless the Napergate Man files a lawsuuit, we will never know what happened. If he files a lawsuit, within 10 days of an FOIA report, we could find out what time Sgt. Bell or one of his officers ran the license plate. If Sgt. Bell ran that plate at midnight and it is the only plate he ran all night long according to State Computers that track this information, my feeling is Sgt. Greg Bell will have a lot of EXPLAINING to do.

My feeling is the plates were ran much earlier when he first arrived or was parked. If they have been run in those 55 seconds prior to the arrest, the NPD would have released the evidence and shut everyone up in a nanosecond. They did not! That raises suspicion! Much suspicion!

I agree with the bloggers who suggested Civil Rights Attorney Shawn Collins give the Napergate Man a call. It seems there is an excellent lawsuit here that is easily provable because of State Computers.

Mr. John Q. Public,

I have kept up with all the Napergate threads. I recall seeing about 6-8 people who did actually state they were allowed to proceed to booking voluntarily. Only one was allowed to continue to drive. I think this guy had an emission testing problem and the cop allowed him to drive to his auto mechanic to take care of the emission problem. I recall him warning him not to dare drive anywhere else.

I believe all others had to arrange for transportation. Since I believe Ted and Jim read everything they may recall these posts. With over a 1000 Napergate posts and some 3 to 10 pages long, I no longer see how anyone can find anything. How can you skim thru a 3000 to 5000 page book to find information. Is there a way to do a search? Maybe Joe can help but he usually does not want to if it helps Napergatians...lol..!! I would not even attempt to try. Some of those incidents of driver let go for emissions or toll suspensions were buried in the longer blogs making them almost impossible to detect unless you are willing to read an Encyclopedia. I guess that means I already read one but I am not willing to read it all over again.

But really common sense without knowing the law indicates if a lady with kids is stopped, the police officer has discretion not to hand cuff her. Would you not agree on that one, Mr. Public? Especially if it was emission or tolls which really does not make you a bad driver. It just means your car was a bad car and maybe you or a family member could not pay your toll for some reason.

I read that 97% of people pay their tolls. I have to believe the Napergate Man could do what 97% of the people could do especially since he did what one in a 100,000,000 could ONLY do.....beat City Hall over and over and over and over again!

Something else that has not been noted. He had an I-Pass according to Bob or Mike in his Hummer H2. I am sure the police saw that or he pointed that out to them. There was a whole bunch of officers on the scene. If he did not believe in paying his tolls why would he buy an I-PASS? All these things just make this story unbelievable and very disturbing. It makes you understand why Napergatians get emotional when someone tries to tell them it isn't so. It is hard to believe it isn't so!

And if you add and subtract you can figure out this guy is a multi-millionaire. I checked on his plaza and he owns it free and clear of any liens. I am guessing it is worth 5 million or more and it is always fully occupied. Never seen a vacancy in it. We know he use to own 2 liquor stores in town and sold one. I understand he owned other businesses. Plus the guy owns a Rolls Royce which indicates .40 cents is not a problem for him! He does not like trouble with the police. Remember this is the same guy who counts 1001, 1002, 1003 at stop signs. So I think the officers fully knew he would never intentionally not pay a lousy .40 cent toll or 2 or 3 or 4. And who would do that with a Rolls Royce with cameras watching thru surviellane. Just defies reason and logic! So why the heavy handedness for this "CRIME."

I am sure when they told him it was a tollway violation with a license plate registered to him but that his daughter drives, everyone(both he, Bob, and police) knew what probably transpired. Who is trying to kid who? And like everyone is saying of course he did not get his suspension in time, and of course he drove not knowing he was suspended.

Here is yet another reason he did not know. He is a regular downtown. He knows the cops leave after the bars close. If he knew he was suspended, he would just wait for the cops to leave before he drove away. This is just too easy for the Napergate Man. We all know we are talking about a brilliant man with an MBA, who ran the multi-billion dollar portfolio of a Fortune 500 Company(can't remember which one), owned 6 business in different fields, played the stock market, wrote Napergate Ads, developed grass roots movements, beat out 5000 contestants in a National Competition for a "responsible drinking campaign," beat City Hall in many courts over and over again, beat City Hall back in its own chambers over and over again, got the IABTF to investigate the City, and his accomplishment just seem to never end! So of course this guy had the mental capacity to wait for the cops to leave if he knew he was driving on a SUSPENDED LICENSE!

So what are the odds he say BOTH forgot he was suspended when he parked next to the police and when he left the police.. About 0! They guy was walking a dog.....not drinking!

Also businessmen like him sort thru the mail with a fine tooth comb. If you have a liquor license and you miss your license renewal, I assume you can not operate. He is not going to miss anything from a government agency when he sorts thru his mail! No way!

Another point of interest! This is a decorated Sergeant! His friend claimed he arrested over a 1000 people. He was a 20 year veteran! He was experienced. He is not going to have a bad hair day. I don't buy that. If he was emotional and having a bad hair day, what about all the other cops involved in the arrest? Were they also having a bad hair day all at the same EXACT TIME ? Not one of 3 or 4 other officers could calm this irrate SGT. down! Not one could call his superior and state you better come take a look at Sgt. Bell....he appears to be acting CRAZY!

I think when you study this case carefully, it really adds up to misconduct and abuse. If he files suit, he only needs to show a preponderance of the evidence to win this case. The jury only has to believe it was a 51% chance it happened the way we understand it to have happened. That looks a little to easy for me!

I think based on the discussion on this latest thread, the Napergate Man seemed to have 99% support with only Joe and Host Ted really solidly in the other camp. Yes, I understand now Host Ted may have not been in Joe's camp but playing Devil's Advocate too. He did make that comment but I honestly could not tell if he was kidding or serious. I felt you were serious, Mr. John Q. Public!( By the way I love your name...how did you ever come up with that one... can you think of a new name for me...I am kinda of jealous. How does Jane Q. Public sounds to you?. We are boring on this thread compared to those District 204 bloggers. Either they give their real name or come up with some weird phrase. No one has a clue how many bloggers are on that site.)

Let me ask you, Mr. Public a question! Why doesn't the police dept just apologize the next day when something like this happens? This guy is not looking for money or hurting for money. I can't see him suing because he sat in a jail cell for 4 hours. He probably had a lot to think about. But I guess he was worried about Abby and I doubt he could think about anything but her. So could he sue because they forced him pain and agony over Abby? I don't know!

But let us say, he can prove the Sergeant was treating him in this very harsh way as payback for the past which is a very high probability, will he be awarded a big judgment! How much damage was really done to him even though it may have been a conspiracy to harass him? Do the courts look at the act of conspiracy or do they look at the damage from the conspiracy?

So many questions and no answers from anyone. I have to agree that so much can he answered if Host Ted or Moderator Jim asked Shawn Collins a few general questions. He seems to be the civil rights lawyer to hire and he apparently likes high profile cases! Based on what I have seen the guy loves attention and getting a call from Ted or Jim would give him a rise.(Rise seems to be the new favorite word replacing Joe's "calling you out" since Joe has left no one "uncalled or unchallenged." Ted needs to recruit a few new bloggers for Joe to "call out"...just teasing you, Joe) Plus Mr. Collins is no dummy and knows he is getting free advertising every time he talks to a reporter, editor or publisher!

Drew Peterson's attorney took his case because he was dying for the limelight. Ever so obvious! Jumps on planes to New York every week! Some people will do anything for the media. I guess if you work free in a high publicity case you get other clients from the free media publicity. I think Mr. Collins would love to hear from Mr. Ted and Mr. Jim. And since he is following his clients threads and there is a lot of intermingling, he would know of the NAPERGATE MAN with certainty.

It seems like this Napergate case is very cut and dry. The DF case seems to be a he said she said case that is not easily winnable since DF has no known witness of the magnitude of Amazing Bob who paid attention by the SECOND! The Napergate Man has a very solid witness in Bob who has already laid out an AMAZING POST as Ted called it and it really seemed so credible. This Bob guy did not have an ax to grind. He really was not emotional and just listened and recorded in his mind. He was not drinking and does not smoke cigs or anything else that a guy like d. bone may smoke. You just can't get a better witness.

Plus the fact they had a dog with them is proof they were in no bar or had anything to drink. In other words no impaired judgment or decision making due to a buzz. No failing of the memory due to alcohol consumption!

OK, I am beginning to ramble the on a bit!. I think the only thing new I added was they could have walked Abby 15 minutes more and let the cops go before jumping in the Hummer. Another option would have been to let Bob drive instead of the Napergate Man if the Napergate knew he was suspended.

Does anyone agree with me that the Napergate Man with 99.99% certainty did not know he was SUSPENDED? I feel 99.99% POSITIVE! If I was on a jury, I could not be persuaded that he knew. Thus the city could never win! The Napergate Man has a great chance of winning since I only needed to be persuaded 51% for a civil trial and I have been persuaded 100% from the facts, logic and testimonials.

I would like to hear if Host Ted, Moderator Jim, Mr. Public, or T.B agree with me that there is no chance the Napergate Man knew he was SUSPENDED!!!


PS. I will soon be switching to Ms. Jane Q. Public as I am getting tired of being Patricia...this will be my only announcement!

"I see Moderator Jim as having an open mind and ready to do a u-turn as John Q. Public did."
and
“John Q. Public finally showed some courage.”

Maryann, et. al., for the record, I have not done a u-turn---but I also don't profess to have a superabundance of courage. All I did was reveal a little more of my position. Nothing about my 11:31 p.m. post on March 8 contradicts anything I said in earlier posts on this or any other thread. I did express my opinion that the NGM's treatment in the July, 2006 arrest seemed out of proportion to his offense. But in earlier posts I also raised the question of whether or not this is standard operating procedure for the NPD, because this question really gets to the heart of the matter. I agree with the Napergatians, and disagree with Joe and, I think, T.B., that the NGM was, or probably was, mistreated. But I agree with both Joe and T.B. that we have yet to see evidence that, in this instance, he was specifically singled out for this mistreatment.

Somebody responding to me in an earlier post said that ten people on this blog had related personal experiences with the NPD for similar offenses in which they were treated much better than the NGM. Since I did not recall a single such post, I asked this person to please list a few of them. I never got a response. I did do a quick (read, “not thorough or exhaustive”) search of this thread and one or two of the other Nagergate threads to see if I could find one, but to no avail. So, if we have evidence that the NPD normally uses a light touch in these matters, I’d like to hear it. Even then, though, we can’t rule out the possibility that this was really just the responsibility of the officer in charge, Sgt. Bell, and that he either never chooses to give citizens the benefit of the doubt in matters of discretion, or that he was just having a bad hair day.

-JQP

Ted,

Most Internet service providers have pools of IP addresses that are dynamically-allocated as needed. This has two implications for purposes of our blog: a single user will usually have a different IP address every time he/she cycles his/her computer on and off; two different users posting at different times might have the same IP address if they use the same Internet service provider.

-JQP


Response from Ted:

Interesting, JQP. Your IP address always shows up the same, and it's unique from any other. That's how it is with most repeat commenters, and as I've said, I've only just now starting paying attention so I haven't gone back to do an exhaustive investigation.

What I have noticed is there are now four posters who show up under the identical IP address, and the IP address is always the same. Add Virginia now to the group that includes Debbie, Roger and Rudolph.

Maryann –

I responded to your post, despite my ill feelings due to your attempt to call me out for a BS reason. You didn’t even know my position on the matter and made a bad assumption about what you thought I would say.

I feel that your apparent poor attitude and attempts to call me out (with capital letters no less) while insinuating for some reason that I would hide is not civil discourse. To be honest, I think it is rather rude. My first instinct was not to respond to you, but then I guess you would win, right?

I think one of the worst parts about these threads and blogging in general is people say things they would never say directly to someone’s face. I doubt Elizabeth or Melissa would ever say the things about NPD officers that they typed here directly to the very officers they apparently despise. Also, without face-to-face contact people read things into the posts based on their preconceived notions of the blogger even though they hardly know each other.

I’m glad to see the new Napergate thread has gotten off to a better start. But, then again, this thread started fairly well, too.

Enjoy my response(s), Maryann. I’m off to Florida on Thursday and will start my vacation from the Napergate topic tomorrow. I have too much to do before I leave and feel there’s nothing new to say. I would hate for you to think I was hiding from you. It would, in fact, keep me up at night. I’ll just be hiding from work on a nice warm beach far from voicemail and e-mails.

T.B.

Debbie -

Your 11:17 post was very well done, though I don't think DF will be the one to take the reigns. He accepted campaign money from developers and the ultra evil Brestel law firm. I doubt those sins could be forgiven by the Napergatians.

By the way, my lynching response was also in jest. If you track back to Maryann's first use of it, I suggested sensitivity training. That was not to be taken seriously. Trust me, I am no poster boy for the PC police.

T.B.


Moderator Jim: I didn't take offense, either. By the way, new thread for everybody on the homepage.

Ted,

Please keep pointing out the handles being posted from the same machines.
I believe it may start to show what I had been saying for months about how many people are actually posting here.

Response from Ted:

This is interesting. The posts include the IP, or internet protocol address, of the commenter. Usually I never pay any attention to them, since the vast majority are unique and nonrepetitive numbers, and I have no means of tracing an IP address to a computer location. I understand from a recent report we did, though, that authorities have the means to do that.

Anyway, the person posting as Debbie just now turns up the same IP address as Rudolph and Roger. So, maybe I was hasty in jumping to a conclusion, and if I am mistaken, I apologize to Roger. There could be some other explanation, such as computers from a public facility such as a library might all show the same IP address. Maybe some Internet providers channel customers through a common server, which produces the result. I don't know, I really shouldn't speculate because I don't know enough about the topic. I apologize to Roger, again, if I am mistaken.

T.B.

I think you missed it but the first time Maryann used lynch she was kidding around and she used it because Moderator Jim's last name was Lynch. She was being humorous when she used it in the e-mail directed towards you I believe. She even said she was kidding!

But who has time to find this stuff with 400 posts. It is almost now impossible.

Does anyone remember when Moderator Jim asked where we were the first day before anyone knew we were on the Main Page? Well I bet we surprised the Moderator after he thought we petered out!

Didn't we Moderator Jim?

I think what I am seeing is the denial of a very large group of people to accept the retirement of their leader. They were told by his friends that the Napergate Man finally retired after 20 years. They are in denial! They were told his family bought him this lovely white dog in exchange for his retirement vow. Apparently they were telling us the truth and he retired. No wants to believe it!

As we studied the Napergate Man we learned he had his hands in everything. I could never have imagined. He was a unique and a one of a kind leader.

No other city or town was lucky enough to have a leader like this guy. He apparently had the education, knowledge, leadership, brilliance and wealth to do all he did. Residents just have to accept that we are back to square one like every other USA town and we have to move forward with an ordinary leader and make the best out of a bad situation.

It seems to me everyone wrongfully thinks the Naperville Sun has the duty and obligation to replace the Napergate Man. They don't have the duty to replace the Napergate Man. Somebody has to emerge from outside the Naperville Sun!

It seems Dick Furstenau would be the natural leader. The Napergatians endorsed him back in 1995 and were persistent until he finally won. I am not sure if his litigation problems are preventing him from filling the void or maybe what the Napergate Man was doing is just too much for any one individual in this town.

On the other hand he only announced his retirement thru his friends a month or two ago. It takes more than a few months to find just a boyfriend or girl friend. So the Napergatians need to calm down and I am sure a new leader will emerge. Unfortunatley, most leaders will not buy ads, investigate and write columns each week! So it will be a downer but eventually they will get over the loss of their leader and move on.

I think none of the 200 bloggers understand the effort that goes into a ground roots movement. Notice how the Napergate Man and Randy pressured Liebert to come to that ATT meeting or he would not be allowed to use the pay phone. So it was more than those Napergate ads that packed Council Meetings. It is the little things that no one is willing to do since the internet age.

But putting all this aside, why don't our city officials just get a conscience and do the right thing. It seems like they would want to be liked. It is puzzling to me why we have such bad people running our town that we need a watchdog. It would be so much nicer if we just had good people running our town and we did not need a watchdog!

Moderator Jim -

No problem. In fact, at the time of those posts I questioned how they got through.

I only wanted to point out that I quoted previous posts lest I be accused of fabricating additional insults towards the NPD. Crazier things have been alleged here!

T.B.

Maryann -

Forgot to mention-- It's not very PC to use the word "lynch" these days. Framed may be a better alternative.

T.B.

Maryann –

I do not have the time to research the specific posts, but since you have nothing better to do you can research them yourself. Go back to the previously archived Napergate threads and you will see that I was the one asking what Chief Dial’s role was in the original Napergate issue. At the time of those posts, the person defending the Chief was none other than Police Officer, calling the Chief an honest and admirable man.

Specifically, what I stated was that the Chief either had to know what his officers were doing or he should have known what they were doing. If the Chief did not know what his alleged five rogue officers were doing, then I said I had concerns on his grasp for what is going on within his force.

So you see, perhaps you should know what my position on the topic is before you write a lengthy post to criticize me.

Regarding the more recent issue, the NGM was stopped for a valid reason. The stop was legal. They had probable cause just by knowing the registered owner of the car had a suspended license. They didn’t need for the NGM to run a stop sign. Man, this is getting old!

I still see nothing to tie this minor traffic arrest to the Napergate era incidents more than ten years ago. I have said it many times and will say it again; the NGM took responsibility for his mistakes so why are you still pursuing this when even he doesn’t want to?

Which one are you, Don Quixote or Sancho Panza?

T.B.

Moderator Jim –

I respect the fact you did not want publish those words; however, I did not write anything that wasn’t already said…

By Elizabeth on March 5 @ 07:12 PM
By Susan on March 5 @ 08:16 PM
By Anonymous on March 5 @ 08:38 PM
By Melissa on March 5 @ 08:55 PM
And by me (in response) on March 5 @ 11:02 PM

There may be more, but I don’t have the time to search for the specific posts.

T.B.


Moderator Jim: Take your point T.B. and some others may have slipped through, but that was accidental i.e. our fault. We can't allow such verbiage on the blogs. If a few slipped by, that doesn't set a precedent that it's okay.

T.B.,
I will challenge your statement 7 since you requested I challenge it. Here is your statement:

******************************************************************

7. NOT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO THE NGM IS PART OF SOME HUGE CONTINUING CONSPIRACY.

I’m sure you and others are going to write back now and fill in the gaps or otherwise correct my story. That’s fine, but remember that assumptions and speculation are not facts. Unless you have something new that has yet to be written, I see nothing that ties this incident to any huge conspiracy.

Get me facts, Maryann, and the verdict can be unanimous. Absent facts, this is a hung jury.

Posted by: T.B. | March 10, 2008 10:47 AM

******************************************************************

Did you ever hear of lightning striking a person once...how about twice....how about 3 times....try 4 times...? It does not happen! If lightning can't strike the same person 4 times, you have a CONSPIRACY of many City Officials, City Attorneys, City Police and Park Police over many years. It is common sense, T. B.!!! Think about it!

I don't know all the facts. The Napergate Man is not speaking about all his abuse over the years. It seems he wants to keep a good relation with current Mayor George Pradel who seems to be the only official in the City of Naperville who has ever treated him fairly.


BUT HERE ARE THE FACTS WE KNOW:


1.His liquor license was revoked in 1984 by an Establishment Mayor with the assistance of Police Officers and City AttorneyS despite have the best record in town of any establishment. This is a strike of lightning a 1/600,000 chance of occurrence

2.His liquor license was revoked again in 1993 by an Establishment Mayor with assistance of Police Officers, City Attorneys, City Police and this time we can add Park District Police since the lynching judge was from there. This time he not only had the best record in town but the best record in the nation. He won the KYLIX AWARD in Las Vegas which was pictured in the Sun more than once. This is another strike of lightning with a 1/600,000 chance of occurrence.

3. He is stopped by police while taking his car in to an fix emission failure problem. He is arrested instead of allowing himself to turn himself in while going to Dave's Auto Shop. Again a 1/600,000 chance of an occurrence.

4. He is walking his dog on a warm and peaceful weekend with a friend and 12 members of our police department who are stationed in the middle of Chicago Ave decide to run his plate after he parked next to them and exited the vehicle. They conspired to arrest him as soon as he returned since they ran his plates and discovered his license was suspended. To be this unlucky I assume and believe they run his plates whenever they see him. For this to happen to someone is a 1/600,000 chance.

5.Finally when they stop him after he refused to run stop signs and not activate signals, they abuse him in a way I have never seen a Napervillian abused. His friend never uttered a word. He was polite as hell and respectful. He had a dog with him! They found out on the scene that the suspension was a tollway violation committed by his daughter. Despite all this the Sergeant decided to humiliate him. And by coincidence we find out this Sergeant was with Naperville for 20 years. Thus he knew about the Kangaroo Trial. He either participated or knew his colleagues were lying under oath. He knew the man was lynched! Since you knew the man was lynched while you were on the force why not give him a break and let him take his dog home and come back for booking. To run into a cop this mean is a 1/600,0000 chance of occurrence.

So we have 1/600,000 x 1/600,000 x 1/600,000 x 1/600,000 x 1/600,000. This is a chance of

1/12,960,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Holy Toledo!

The odds of these all being coincidences are infinitesimal. For all this to happen to one person, it has to be orchestrated, conspired and planned. It can not all be a conincidence!

Common T.B.! You just don't revoke the license of the best liquor retailer against minors in the nation. Yes, he is crowned National Champions at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas for his efforts and low and behold City Officials, City Attorneys, City Police and Park Police conspire to convict him. How many times have we said this, T. B.! And you continue to ignore this conspiracy that Federal and State Higher Courts uncovered after the IABTF uncovered it.

Show me some credibility by condemning Chief David Dial specifically for this one Kangaroo Trial. He was Chief of Police at the time and all the police who lied under oath worked for him. They lied under oath despite the existence of video tape which contradicted their lies. The Park Police Officer turned Judge issued the ruling while conspiring with former Mayor Macrance, former City Attorneys, and numerous police. This all happened on Chief Dial's watch and he must take responsibility for his cops as the Napergate Man must take responsibility for his employees when they sell to a minor unintentionally and accidentally. What don't you get T.B.!

I did not ignore you. Now don't ignore me. If you are a smart man show me some bravery and condemn Police Chief David Dial for his role in this Kangaroo Trial. You know it happened. You know what happened in 2 Appellant Rulings. The Illinois Appellant Ruling was posted by Ameena from a Napergate ad that was vetted by Sun Editors and Libel Attorneys. The Federal Ruling which our own Citizen Joe found on the internet was also posted for us to read. And we have the IABTF ruling that was published in a full page ad picturing the ruling on stationary head of the IABTF.

And nothing happens to Chief Dial! And people like Joe and T.B. can not be men and condemn the Chief for his role in this trial. I don't care that he did not testify. He allowed his cops to testify and frame an innocent man. He knew what was going on. He did not care if an innocent man went to the slammer. We all know the charges in that trial went way beyond the sting. They were numerous but to repeat them when they were all beaten down does injustice to the reputation of the Napergate Man. So it is not fair to repeat and rehash them. And all he did wrong was leave the store in the hands of a Bassett trained employee for an hour and a half while he or is his manger went to the bank to get change and a grocery store to get limes and lemons.

Not one court would punish him for that offense. Not one in the entire Federal or State system. They all thought it was RIDICULOUS! Why if there is no conspiracy add this ridiculous charge to 11 other more serious charges? Common T.B! You anger me with your desire to protect the Chief of Police in his role in the Napergate Conspiracy of the mid 90s that lasted a few years. Be a man T.B! Condemn Chief Dial for his role in this huge CONSPIRACY! I am not talking right now about emissions or tolls. I am talking about a huge conspiracy he was never held accountable for or responsible for.

If a criminal committed a serious crime 20 years ago, would Chief Dial give him a pass? Of course not! Why should he be given a pass for his role in a Kangaroo Trial that took place less than 15 years ago. He should be charged by the STATE POLICE and given his day in court. He deserves a fair trial, not a Kangaroo Trial like he and his colleagues had for the Napergate Man.

We will see what you are made out of T.B. today! We will see if you are a man of your word and will respond or if you will wimp out on us like City Officials and City Police whenever they hear the name of the NAPERGATE MAN. They know what they did to him and they are HIDING! Are you going to HIDE T.B.??? ONLY TIME WILL TELL!!! I HOPE YOU HAVE COURAGE!!! John Q. Public finally showed some courage. He is now respected! Can you show some courage or will you slice and dice words like Joe and swizzle out of your CONDEMNATION OF CHIEF DIAL FOR HIS ROLE IN THE 1993-1995 KANGAROO TRIAL IN WHICH THE NAPERGATE MAN WAS FRAMED, LYNCHED AND HUNG TO DRY!

Response from Ted:

Rudolph: other than posting your thoughts here, what are you going to do about it? If you are serious about your concerns, what plan of action do you intend to take?


Host Ted,
Like many others, I feel Chief Dial reads your blogs. By now the whole world knows what is going on. This Liebert fellow from Chicago is reading your blogs because friends tipped him off. The friends of the Napergate Man tipped him off! The police officers of the NPD tipped Chief Dial off. Did you forget about Mrs. of the Police Officer? Her husband is a police officer. Do you think her husband did not tell his boss? Of course he did! Chief Dial I am sure ordered Mrs. Police Officer's husband to shut her mouth! And she listened! How sad! She was a great blogger!

So I am doing my share by expressing my disgust with Chief Dial and I know he is reading my letter. I also honestly believe the Naperville Sun will come around and see the truth.

The Naperville Sun knows that Chief Dial has a role in that Napergate Kangaroo Court! If the Napergate Man is responsible for his employees and daughter and has to pay heavy prices such as revocation, than Chief Dial must also pay a heavy price.

Let me tell you Host Ted. I think it is offensive to every resident of this town that you would allow a Chief of Police that was in charge during the Kangaroo Trial that we all know was a conspiracy to be afforded a column in your respected newspaper. That is disgusting. Now that you gentleman at the Naperville Sun have finally allowed us to air our pent up anger from 20 years, you will know how we feel.

I can tell you in my neighborhood the Mayor of this town is respected. I can also tell you in my neighborhood the Chief of Police is disliked. Yes, Napergate has a lot to do with why he is extremely disliked! He has allowed his police to discrminate against this Napergate Man for nearly 2 decades. We are fed up with it.

I am not the leader type. You can tell Ted. You are right. I don't know what to do. But if some leader emerges and asks me to attend a City Council Meeting to ask for Chief Dial's Resignation, I will bring my wife, kids, relatives and neighbors with me. That is all I can promise. I don't have enough money to buy one Napergate Ad, so I will not have that kind of influence. But someone someday will replace the Napergate Man and we will see Napergate ads again unless the Naperville Sun decides to change course and perform its role to society!

I also unlike others feel, if you don't change course, a good competitor can come one day and wipe you out. Naperville is a big city and when these newspapers find out we are big, they will come here and you will be dethroned if you remain in the DARK AGES!

So why don't you and Moderator Jim stop playing games with us bloggers and do something. What can a blogger like me do? Let us be real Ted? But you know that you and Jim can shake this town off its foundation.

The Napergate Man shook this town with one single page of ink. The Naperville Sun was a 100 pages. He only needed one page of ink. He got 4 council members elected from one single page in your newspaper. That is the power of ink and a good inspiring writer which he was!

You guys probably have 50 pages of ink in each edition. I have no clue as I am also a former subscriber because Napergate stopped and you have been way too soft in your approach. You guys can shake and bake these corrupt officials if you wanted to. You choose not too! You are teasing us! We are serious!

You have the power Host Ted! Not me! Run a few editorials exposing Chief Dial's role in the 90s Napergate Conspiracy, the pressure will build up and he will resign. You will lose a disgusting columnist. Big deal! You can replace him!

But you would have rid us of a Chief who allowed his cops to frame an innocent man. This is bothering a lot of people in this town since it resurfaced. It should be obvious to you. People want accountability from their officials no matter how long ago the crime was!

Ask yourself Host Ted with all this ink and paper, when is your conscience going to bother you. You are rubber stamping a Chief who is no good by allowing him to be a columnist in your paper. It is not only a conflict of interest but disgusting! This man at best looked the other way when so many city departments were colluding and conspiring to frame and railroad the Napergate Man.

He did nothing. He was more concerned for his job. He has no principles. He would rather see an innocent man hung before he gave up his job or even risked it!

Very opposite of former Police Chief TEAL. That guy was a REAL NAPERVILLE HERO. People loved him! He worked his a*s off to free the Nicario Hispanic boys. He went against dozens of police all over the county and state to tell them, they were wrong. He was a brave man. He was a great POLICE CHIEF. This current Police Chief is a wimp and a sissy! Need I say more Ted!

Let me see you for starters condemn that Kangaroo Trial of 1993. I challenge you to condemn it and expose it. Your newspaper never exposed it. It is not an old story because your paper never dealt with it. Your paper never told us the truth. We learned the truth from the courts and the liquor organization while your paper covered up the truth to protect all those guilty city officials and police.

Do you understand the anger in this town? Will you ever understand it? We don't like any of our citizens framed! But to frame a hero who gave so much to this community is just so much worse!

If I had money, I would run a full page ad in your paper 6 times a week asking the Chief to resign. I would never stop until he resigned. The chief is lucky I have NO MONEY!


PS. I am not Roger and don't know who he is, but yes he did inspire me to write after I read his post. I hope I did not plagiarize him. I did not copy or paste anything off his post. It's pure inspiration from him that got me going. I have blogged before under Rudolph more than once. I am sure you computers can track my previous blogs...not many but you will find them!

Response from Ted:

Ive said before and I'll say again now, since I need to repeat myself often here, that I think The Sun dropped the ball and passed on a good story by not covering Napergate and Basim Esmail's lawsuit against the city. I can't change the past, or explain coverage decisions before I became managing editor. We can't go back, and we can't report those events now as if they were news happening today. If you have a complaint about the police chief, and you are not satisfied that The Sun is addressing your complaint, I suggest you consider other courses of action that you could take to make your concerns known.

And, the comments by Rudolph and Roger are being posted from the same computer.

Jay –

“It has not been civil because you allowed d.bone, Joe and T.B. to set the tempo by being uncivil, libelous, and provoking personal attacks.”

I think you missed the part where others, not me, called Sgt Bell (expletives deleted). For merely stating my opinion in this thread I have been called dense, a freak, incompetent, and a loser.

You are sorely mistaken about why this thread is so uncivil. It is not I starting personal attacks and I have never been libelous. If you still think I did something wrong, please point it out.

T.B.


Moderator Jim: Sorry T.B., those naughty words are not allowed.

Norma –

I never said I was a teacher so why are you referring to me as such? I think it’s clear you don’t read my posts very carefully.

I also find it laughable that you (and others) state that Sgt Bell is somehow hiding for not responding to your irrational posts on this blog. You have to be kidding, right?

First of all, you all have your mind made up about Sgt Bell even though you’ve never met him. What good would it do for him to respond to you?

Also, why in the world would Sgt Bell respond to people who are publicly calling him “scum”, “prick”, and “wimp”? It seems to me he’s doing the right thing by denying you someone to irrationally rant at.

T.B.

Loretta –

Since you say I lie every day. Point out one. I challenge you to point out one lie.

T.B.

Roger –

I am most certainly not a fraud as you claim. I also never said I had double masters degrees, just one. If you want to insult me further, please at least get the facts correct.

Are you telling me that nobody ever disagreed with a court decision? I think there is disagreement every day with decisions such as Roe v Wade. I also disagree with court decisions which make it easier for the police to stop and search our cars. Does that mean I’m dense as has been suggested or just have a different opinion? Does that mean everyone against Roe v Wade is dense, too?

This may be cutting a fine line, but my issue with this abuse of discretion crap is that is that I draw a distinction between discretion and abuse. I think that once a cop is abusing someone, he is no longer using the discretion he is afforded. Thus, the abuse replaces the discretion.

It’s hard for me to put it in a better way, but I’ll concede the point since it’s a side issue. Please, anyone, please show me how or where the NGM was abused by this traffic stop. Could he have been treated better? Probably. Was he singled out for who he is instead of what he did? There’s no proof of that.

The bottom line is there are no facts to support the allegation being thrown about here. Also, the NGM is not pursuing this so why are the Napergatians so obsessed with it?

“Of course he said he will continue debating but he flew like a pussy cat. Even pussy cats don't lie that blatantly or run that fast to hide!” Lie? Never. Voicing an opinion is not lying. Hide? I’ve never hidden so I don’t understand where you got this crap.

T.B.

Host Ted,
I just woke up and read the new comments including yours. I always love it when you comment. It shows you CARE!

1.I really don't think anyone is trying to tell you how to do your job.

2.People are trying to make suggestions and/or recommendations for change.

3."There were only a couple simple ground rules: the conversation was to remain civil, nothing libelous, and no personal attacks. This thread seems to have lost its way."

It has not been civil because you allowed d.bone, Joe and T.B. to set the tempo by being uncivil, libelous, and provoking personal attacks. The Napergatian are a very tough group that will fight back and hit twice as hard. Have you not observed this, Host Ted! Control those 3 provokers and you will have a civil thread. It all went down in the gutter when that very nice young lady, Ameena, asked you to remove the nasty d.bone post. You removed it! You and Moderator Jim second guessed yourselves and we have seen chaos since. You should have never reversed your proper first decision. It seems like we lost our number one blogger shortly thereafter. And you both lost the respect of the bloggers due to your indecisiveness and flip flopping! I wonder if that incident was the straw that broke the camels back with Ameena. She was a calming influence on Napergatians when they got out of control but you guys did DISRESPECT her in a big way that day d.bone was acting up, being an idiot and lying!

4.Ted, you ridiculed Adam because he did a 2 minute recreation after asking bloggers to get off their butts and do something.....what goes around comes around. Do you think you have a right to ridicule your bloggers and not be ridiculed? I think we should call you, your Majesty the Royal King of the Naperville Sun and not ridicule you while we allow you to ridicule us!

5. No one is insulting you, Ted! People are giving your constructive criticism repeatedly, you don't listen and INTERPRET it as insulting.

6.Repeated statements by bloggers do not make it true. But if someone makes an estimate of 200 and it is repeated 10 times on your Thread without a remark or comment by the Host, it does become your fault Ted for not correcting the first blogger who made a wrong estimate. After all you are the Host, and as the Host if you know something is wrong, you need to correct it the first shot and not the 6th shot or 10th shot. Do you even know that the estimate of 150-200 is actually wrong? I don't know!

7. Your thread has not lost its way. It is actually very successful! You have lost your way in the sense that you have very thin skin.

8.If anyone has been bashed on this Napergate Thread, it is the Napergate Man. He seems able to handle it. Have you ever seen so many people trying to ruin a man's credibility and reputation over an emission failure and a toll violation of his daughter. I have not seen your or Moderator Jim step up to the plate and tell bloggers, let us judge him as a motion picture instead of a still picture of these 2 events he had no control of.

9.Notice Ted, how the attack on the Napergate Man all collapsed. He did not say a word. The truth came out!

10.If you guys are doing nothing wrong, why worry so much! The truth will come out! If you are in bed with city the truth will come out. If you are not in bed with them the truth will reveal your innocense. Be careful! Don't underestimate the intelligence of your bloggers. They are perceiving to be in bed with City Officials. Don't let them prove it Ted, or you will be doomed for life. Go the other way for a while and side with your bloggers to get rid of this "perception" hanging on the Sun's shoulders since those Napergate Ads were declined. That was really a fateful day for your newspaper. That was the OLD NAPEVILLE SUN! Prove with some action you are the NEW NAPERVILLE SUN. Words are cheap, Host Ted!

11.It seems like you are worried because you feel you are doing something wrong but can not fix it because of pressure from someone on you and Moderator Jim. Squat them like flies and tell them to leave you alone to run your newspaper!

12. When a paper has a decline from 22,000 to 15,000 while the population explodes 50%, you need someone to tell you what you are doing wrong at the Naperville Sun. If you were doing nothing wrong your circulation would be 40,000 minimum.

13. You have a very closed mind, Host Ted, and you refuse to think out of the box as bloggers are saying to you over and over again! I hate to say these things to you, but I am trying to motivate you to think out of the box as so many others have tried and it is like talking to a brick wall. You simply don't listen! You don't hear! You don't want to listen or hear...thus all the repeating on your THREADS! You led people on about getting on the bus to help. When they got people to fill 5 buses, you were not willing to get on the bus. You started saying this is not a story...it is 18 months old....it is only a misdemeanor...who cares...it is not worthy of being in the blog section of our paper and it was not! You stated the old Naperville Sun did not cover the Napergate Man and how wrong and when you have the opportunity you say it is not worthy of mention despite that somehow your bloggers think it is the second hottest story on your threads. Sgt. GREG BELL has not been held accountable. Thus it is a current story! He needs to be held accountable for that fateful evening as you coined it correctly. The case is about abuse of a citizen by a Sergeant. It is not about a misdemeanor. There is a big story here because the Sgt. went unpunished and can repeat his abuse on the next citizen. This is a BIG STORY! This Sergeant is hostile and out of control. He could fire a weapon in a moment of heat or anger. If he makes another mistake, Chief Dial will have to resign immediately for not disciplining him the first time around. People will say Chief, if you would have done something we would not be in this predicament. Does another Sergeant from Bolingbrook remind you of a man who could not control his anger or temper? He ended up killing 2 wives. This Sergeant needs to be treated for anger management before he hurts someone or hurts himself. He is armed and dangerous! Chief Dial needs to give him a desk job until he can see a psychologist to help him deal with his enormous ANGER!

14. It seems like Tim West trained you and taught you to worship the establishment. You seem to worship them! Go reread you comments and see why 95% of your bloggers think you WORSHIP the ESTABLISHMENT! In voting that would be called a LANDSLIDE!

15. Sadly, Moderator Jim who seems to have an open mind is not spending enough time to tell you, that you must CHANGE! . If you don't change, you will be at 10,000 subscribers. If you change and be a real Watch Dog, your circulation will go to 40,000 or more. But Host Ted, with all due respect everyone does think you are talking the talk and not walking the walk as I think Nikki or some gal said! It took a while for Moderator Jim to understand what she was saying. She wrote him a long letter and he finally understood. His comments to her were commendable and showed a sincerity to change. At least Moderator Jim expressed a desire. Will he do it? Only time will tell!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Look at his comment to Nikki,

"Moderator Jim: Okay, Maybe we'll throw up a new thread - and call it Napergate Open Forum. Let me think about some of these ideas you put forth. Thanks.

Posted by: Nikki | March 10, 2008 06:11 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the kind of comment that earns the respect of the bloggers. Your comments all sound like someone whining and crying. You can do much better, Host Ted! Just try and try again! Check in with Moderator Jim! He seems neutral! You really seem to be smitten with City Hall and the City Police! You can not break loose! You could never investigate those bodies. Don't be in denial! Just delegate the assignment to someone who has the courage to do it. You don't have the courage to do it. Admit it, Ted!

I am playing with you TED in an attempt to change you. Don't take this as a personal attack! It is more humor than serious! I will fail in changing you, though! We both know that!

You were playing with the Napergate Man in an attempt to bring him out. You also failed! Let us keep trying and one of us or both of us will eventually succeed. And let us have fun doing it with sarcasm, wit, humor and whatever else comes with the territory.

And don't forget to have thick skin! What has been thrown at the Napergate Man dwarfs what has been thrown at you. He is standing TALL like the ROCK OF GIBRALTAR!! Just continue to stand TALL TED!

Response from Ted:

OK, Jay, if you're not satisfied with the city or the police department or The Sun, what are you going to do about it, other than post comments here? We seem to be going around in circles. I keep suggesting that if people have concerns, they need to air them to the council, or file a formal complaint, or a lawsuit, and I keep hearing that's not what people want to do. OK, fine. People want us (The Sun) to do things like launch a formal investigation into whether the city is harassing Basim Esmail, and I keep saying we can't do that without the cooperation of Basim Esmail. That message doesn't seem to be getting through. We seem to be at a stalemate. This is getting redundant, circular and unproductive. I'm an efficient person, I don't like to waste time. I feel like when I say we can't pursue the matter without the cooperation of Basim Esmail, I'm accused of taking the side of the city and the police department, or being afraid, or ignoring the wishes of the people. I'm just honestly saying the way things are, over and over and over again. People say, well, we could ask questions about this officer or this chain of events but that ignores the elephant in the room: it's really about, whether the city is harassing Basim Esmail, right? It's pointless to take the first step down that path, because Basim Esmail's name is bound to come up in the questions, because that's the foundation of all of these allegations about the city, the police department and The Sun. Now, again, I say, without the cooperation of Basim Esmail, I'm not prepared to take that first step. I'm just not comfortable asking questions on behalf of a well-respected upstanding citizen who appears to value his privacy and who has not asked me to intervene on his behalf. I really don't know what more to say. If I appear frustrated it's because I have made some version of this statement many times before and yet I just don't seem to be able to convince our critics of the absolute critical importance of this point. Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion. It all comes down to the question, is the city harassing Basim Esmail? In order for The Sun to try to answer that question, Basim Esmail has to want us to seek an answer for him.

I would like to know from some of the critics here, where do you go from here? It's apparent that some people posting here are not satisfied with the city, the police department and The Sun. You can't force someone from the police department or the city to respond to posts made here, and you can't force The Sun to pursue the matter. You cannot control the actions of others. But you do have power over your own actions. What else can you do? I would like to hear some suggestions about how all the energy devoted to airing concerns and grievances in this forum could be channeled into something productive, something tangible, something that might actually produce the desired change that some seek.

I love crap like this:
-----
"You listen to this Joe freak too much. All he does is lies! Would you rather cater to an insane freak who can only buy one newspaper or 150,000 highly educated Napervillians both Napergatians and Establishment Folks who can buy 50,000 subscriptions if you can ever get it RIGHT??????????????????????????????????????
Posted by: Tawfiq | March 10, 2008 08:24 PM"
-----


Yes, I am the one on here whining and crying about something that happened to someone else over 18 months ago and crying 'conspiracy' and 'abuse' and calling people 'scum' and 'pricks' when the person this happened to (18 months ago) has not even come forward to speak or complain about it.

... Yes, I'm the 'insane freak' for thinking what happened was just normal police procedure for stopping a vehicle being driven by someone w/ a suspended license and subsequently arrested to which they pled guilty and paid their due to society.

Please, go get a job or a life.

POLICE CHIEF DAVID DIAL MUST RESIGN FOR TOLERATING THE BEHAVIOR OF AN ABUSIVE SERGEANT AGAINST AN OUTSTANDING AND HEROIC CITIZEN.

FORMER POLICE CHIEF JIM TEAL WOULD HAVE DISCIPLINED HIM AND THE MATTER WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER IN 24 HOURS!

THE CURRENT CHIEF HAS BEEN PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT FOR SO LONG AND HAS LEARNED WHAT COVER-UP MEANS.

HE HAS YET TO TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR THAT NAPERGATE KANGAROO TRIAL THAT TOOK PLACE UNDER HIS WATCH!

SORRY CHIEF! BUT YOUR TIME HAS COME AND GONE. YOU HAVE PROVEN WORTHLESS TO THE CITY OF NAPERVILLE AND ITS RESIDENTS.

Response from Ted:

Rudolph (aka Roger): other than posting your thoughts here, what are you going to do about it? If you are serious about your concerns, what plan of action do you intend to take?

Response from Ted:
I don't know where the number 200 came from. I don't know why you think I'm taking sides. I stated my opinion that I don't think asking the chief questions will do any good.
Why don't you try asking the mayor to ask the chief?

Posted by: Lorretta | March 11, 2008 12:18 AM


Mr. Ted,
You already stated that the Mayor refused to respond when asked about the Napergate Man. So why send me to a DEAD END that you know is a DEAD END!

I don't understand why the number 1 and number 2 EXECUTIVES in the Naperville Sun can't dial Chief of Police Dial! At least if you do and he says no comment, we know you tried and you gain respect for trying and do not lose respect.

Have you ever lost any respect for trying some bad threads? Of course not! We learn from trial and error. You folks in the Sun seem so afraid of failure or confrontation. Not sure what it is! Maybe you need to take residency under Eric Zorn and come back a year later after he shows you how to investigate a story.

Even the Napergate Man who has no degree in journalism or ever been a reporter or editor, can investigate a story better than anyone in the Naperville Sun. Where did he get his skills from?

Probably from experimenting, trying and not being afraid of failure!!!

Response from Ted:

I love it when people tell me how to do my job. Since no matter what I say I will get ridiculed, attacked, insulted or worse, I'll try agreeing with you 100 percent. You're absolutely right, Loretta. Boy you sure nailed us.

How could an educated man like you, T.B., make such a statement.


******************************************************************


"3. The term “abuse of discretion” is a myth. No such thing exists."


******************************************************************


Of course there is something called "abuse of discretion," Mr. Professor T.B.

Now you can state you disagree with the Supreme Court and you feel Mayor Price should have given him the death penalty. You may state she used her discretion correctly and you are entitled to that opinion, but you can not say "abuse of discretion" is a myth. That would be a distortion bordering on a lie to make a statement of that nature.

I think you need to apologize to the bloggers and state you understand there is "abuse of discretion" but you feel the 9 Supreme Court Justices erred in overturning this Hatchet Mayor as she was nicknamed in her time. You can state that she did not "abuse her discretion" in nailing the Napergate Man. But you can not get on here as an educated man with degrees and state "abuse of discretion" does not exist. That is an insane statement for an educator to make!

You really made a fool of yourself with that statement. Unless you correct and retract your misstatement or lie, whichever it may be, you will be mocked on this thread and new threads forevermore!

In summary you have every right to disrespect and disagree with the unaminous decision of the 9 Supreme Court Justices. But you have no right to say what they ruled "ON" does not exist. That is really taking it too far!

How would you feel if the Principal abused his/her discretion and fired you as a teacher because one time in your career you raised your voice at a student? He destroyed your life and career! His ruling to terminate you, would be an "abuse of discretion." The Supreme Court unanimously nails your principal 9-0. Are you going to say no such thing as "abuse of discrtion" exists? If you were right that this is a "myth" your termination would not be subject to appeal and you would be finished. Done! Your teaching career would be history!

Do you see why bloggers are calling you DENSE? I see why?

As in these 2 examples Sgt. Greg Bell had wide discretionary powers. He abused them to the extreme! He had the perfect case to take the least harshest measures. He took the most severe measures possible. He "abused his discretion" no matter how you slice it!

Sgt. Bell is not even a MAN to stand up and deny it! He is a wimp that is hiding! We all know the Napergate Man was a MAN and pled guilty for what others(employees, daughter, and a beater car) did to him and that he had no control over. But Sgt. Bell and Chief Dial are wimps who can't own up to anything or take any responsiblity.

Of course Chief Dial reads these blogs! That is why I write here. If I did not believe he read them, I would be sleeping right now instead of writing so he can HEAR ME OUT!

Response from Ted:


Norma, it appears by now that no one from the police department is ever going to respond to anything ever posted here. It would appear that if people have concerns about the police department they are going to have to find some other means to get the response they seek. One way would be to try contacting the police department directly. Another would be to approach the city council. If people have serious allegations of criminal conspiracies and corruption they want investigated, then the process to make such allegations formal would be to contact some other agency, such as the Illinois State Police, the U.S. Attorney or the Illinois Attorney General. Or a complainant could file a civil lawsuit. Airing such grievances on a public Internet forum does not constitute the basis of a formal complaint.


Response from Ted:

You exaggerate and speculate. Exaggerate the number of people posting comments on this topic and speculate that the chief reads this forum.
Posted by: Roger | March 11, 2008 12:08 AM

------------------------------------------------------------------

Ted,
I am repeating a number stated by many bloggers on this site. I am sure it is an estimate but it seems reasonable considering we have nearly 400 posts and most people seem to be one time posters with a few 2 time posters. Yes, we have Joe posting a lot! If it is not accurate why have you not corrected the number instead of allowing it to be posted repeatedly. It has to be at least 150 posters in the worse scenario!

With 300 police officers and civilians who work for Chief Dial the odds that not one has seen this thread and told him his resignation is being called for, would be 0. The police keep a pulse on the community. They know what is going on! They read your blogs! Everyone is reading your blogs! I bet even the Napergate Man occassionally reads your blogs. And so does DF! And so does Shawn Collins! Your blogs are 10 times better than your newspaper. I love your blogs but hate your newspaper! I am just being honest and not trying to be offensive to your PRINT EDITION! But it is a tabloid more than a newspaper...

PS. Have you ever met the Police Chief in person, Ted, and if you have, did you ever have a one to one converstion with him that lasted more than 10 minutes?

Response from Ted:

Aha! So repeating statements made by other bloggers makes it true. I see how this works. This conversation is getting nowhere. You insult us, I go about my work, check for comments, read more insults...

Host Ted,
I sense a little dispute between you and Moderator Jim. You seem completely fed up with Napergate and anything that it stands for.

I see Moderator Jim as having an open mind and ready to do a u-turn as John Q. Public did. Jim seems to want to open his mind.
You seem like you want to keep your mind closed and continue the status quo of the Naperville Sun which has encountered a massive decline in subscriptions since Napergate ads stopped appearing!

May I ask why you have this attitude, Host Ted?

Response from Ted:

Maryann,

Look at the recent comments that attack and insult The Sun. This isn't even about an issue or anything anymore. It's now about The Sun and what it will or won't do. It's natural for people in our line of work to disagree. No newsroom has universal consensus on every issue. I created this online community forum to give people a chance to voice opinions about a variety of issues affecting Naperville. There were only a couple simple ground rules: the conversation was to remain civil, nothing libelous, and no personal attacks. This thread seems to have lost its way.

Mr. Slowick,

Instead of making this assumption and statement,

"I don't believe us asking questions of the chief will solve anything, or get anywhere."

have you ever thought of trying to see if he will in fact solve the problem and get us somewhere.

Those who never try, never get anywhere in life!

Response from Ted:

Vanessa, have you tried asking the chief directly?

Ted,
You have no interest in puruing this Napergate Man case because it will make the Police Chief look bad. This will make your paper look bad because he is a columnist and he would lose credibility. No one wants a columnist for their newspaper to lose credibility as the paper loses credibility with the columnist.

This is why conflicts of interest are so dangerous in our society and condemned by all reasonable people.

Because of this conflict of interest, you and Moderator Jim have a complete impairment of judgement and cannot see what 200 credible Citizen Journalists are viewing before their eyes!

Notice you are siding with 2 bloggers named Joe and T.B. who have been described and proven to lie day in and day out. Do you guys really want to lower yourselves to the level of these two lying punks?

You guys don't lie...that is obvious! But you make very bad decisions because of these conflicts of interest haunting your newspaper!

Response from Ted:

I don't know where the number 200 came from. I don't know why you think I'm taking sides. I stated my opinion that I don't think asking the chief questions will do any good.

Why don't you try asking the mayor to ask the chief?

Host Ted!
Let us be realistic! The Police Chief reads your blogs. He knows why he is being attacked. He is no dummy! He has studied the Napergate Case upside down to see how it led to this mess.

If he says he does not know or remember it, that would be very unlikey. He would say something like that only because he knows the statute of limitiations has not expired and he does not want antother lawsuit on the city's door step!

That is my opinion and analyis! I really think the bloggers will think you are naive when you make such a statement such as "he is likely to say he knows nothing about a misdemeanor." He has been asked to resign by 200 people because of this case and he not going to look into it!!! Give me a break, Ted!!!

Go smell the Java, Ted! Seriously! You are insulting the intelligence of you bloggers and Citizen Journalists with such a ludicrous comment!

Response from Ted:

You exaggerate and speculate. Exaggerate the number of people posting comments on this topic and speculate that the chief reads this forum.

What I am seeing is no one can debate the Napergatians because they are sharp people who know the facts and read before they write.

Look it how T.B. made a fool of himself when he said that there is no such thing as Abuse of Discretion only to have a Napergatian nail him with a unanimous decision ruling of the Supreme Court regarding that exact issue! I do recall that case was an abuse of discretion. He had 2 accidental and unintentional sales to a minor by his EMPLOYEES....not HIM! They were convicted but her highness the Mayor at the time revoked his license despite Extra Value Liquors not having a prior record.

Can one imagine that? The Supreme Court called it right. Our double Master Degreed T.B. is most probably a fraud on here selling internet education! How shameful he would dispute a Supreme Court unanimous ruling?

Of course he said he will continue debating but he flew like a pussy cat. Even pussy cats don't lie that blatantly or run that fast to hide!

Just like City of Naperville gave the Napergate Man so much credibility with so many lies to puncture, we now see the city supporters giving his Napergatian followers the same credibility with their huge lies that are as flat as a tire with a fresh nail in it. When will City Officials and supporters realize lies don't pay off starting with the Head Hancho who said the whole Napergate Trial cost 5k-10K? What kind of an idiot is leading and managing our city? How could the City Council allow a man who lies so blatantly be a City Manager? This speaks very negatively for our City Council! Is this an old issue that is 18 months old and does not justify coverage? Why is the Sun not nailing him for his LIE? Why are they letting off the hook instead of condemning him in an editorial which may make him think twice in the future before lying while collecting a 6 digit salary from taxpayers. Enough said for now! Good Night!

I don't believe us asking questions of the chief will solve anything, or get anywhere. He's likely to say he doesn't know anything about a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license that occurred 18 months ago. I think it is futile and repetitive to keep asking us to question police about this incident. We simply have no interest in pursuing the matter. You will have to think of another way to let your concerns about the police department known to the chief.

Maryann –

Insults and more insults. Can you piece together a logical argument or not? You did not address most of my points with facts as I asked.

As for the term “abuse of discretion”, I still think this is a myth. Yes, I can disagree with a (State) Supreme Court decision (nice site by you). Many people do the same—see Rove v Wade for one example (though in Fed court).

Here’s why I say it’s a myth--discretion means you have a choice. You happen to disagree with the choice that was made. You think the arresting officer made a poor decision. Fine. I can see your side. But does that mean the discretion was abused? You fail to provide the data to show any abuse. Was this normal NPD protocol or something out if the ordinary? Show me FACTS that this was ABUSE. Otherwise, this is just a catchphrase for the tinfoil hat conspiracy club.

Check the D204 blogs and you will see I am there with your so-called cartoon characters. What does that matter? This is just another red herring.

For your information, I did not buy my degrees off the internet as you slanderously alleged, but earned them both (a B.A. in Economics and an MBA) from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. I am quite proud of my achievements and challenge you to show how I could have skated through by being as dense as you allege. You’re really showing how juvenile you are by trying to stick to these insults instead of showing how I could be wrong in the seven points I posted.

You expressly ignored point #7. Please, please tell me how everything that happens to the NGM is part of some huge government conspiracy? Just where is the proof of this?

Yes, this thread is for serious people. But heaven forbid you have any dissent, right? What gives you the right to try and push someone off this thread?

**********

Henry -

True entrapment is when an officer, undercover or otherwise, provokes or entices someone to break a law when they would not have done so absent the officer’s actions.

The NGM case was not entrapment and your understanding of entrapment is extremely flawed.

T.B.

If there was no intentional act performed by the police prior to stopping him, then why was there three police cars on the scene in a very short time to "arrest" someone for driving on a suspended license?

Response from host:

So it's hardly a surprise that additional units would respond in a short time frame. That's standard procedure in any department.

The question that will never be resolved here is whether police knew who Basim Esmail was before they legally ran his plates and pulled him over because he was driving on a suspended license. . Otherwise, forget about it. You'll never get an answer.

Posted by: Rod Randall | March 7, 2008 12:11 PM

==================================================================

I am convinced Adam and Rod are on to something. They are both showing that what occurred would be impossible unless his license plate was ran while he was parked. Maybe we even have entrapment civil rights violation! Not sure!

If Host Ted/ Moderator Jim had the courage to interview Police Chief David Dial the answer would become clear very quickly. I doubt Chief Dial would make a fool of himself like City Manager Bob Marshall and lie! He would either say they ran the license plate in advance or no comment. Chief Dial would not lie! No comment would most likely mean they ran it selectively in a discriminatory manner. Plus they would both have a chance to look him in the eyes to see if his eyes roll or if he can continue to look at you straight without blinking so often. You guys can get answers if you want. But you enjoy protecting guilty city officials and police! Don't know why you protect the guilty! Beyond my comprehension!

Nikki,

Very nice job! No one else has been able to get the Moderator or Host to change their minds. At least they told you they will think of the ideas you put forth!

Consider your long letter worth every minute you put into writing it!


Rod Randall,

I definetly agree with you that it was ENTRAPMENT. I am surprised no one thought of it that way in 3 months. Maybe this will give more ammunition to the Napergate Man and he will sue Sgt. Greg Bell and Chief David Dial who rubber stamped his pathetic behavior that night.

Keep up the great work, Rod! I noticed Host Ted has finally shown you some respect on these threads. It is about time! You earned it and deserve it for putting your "thinking cap" on before posting!

Ted and Jim,
If you look at what Nikki is saying, it is really not radical or offensive. She is just trying to get you guys to change.

The way I see it is you are nice guys stuck in a box unwilling to change. You need to think out of this box you are stuck in. If you can't you need to get an outside advisor to evaluate the situation and help you improve your newspaper.

Your newspaper is an institution in this town. No other paper has a chance. We all know that! But you are taking your position of being no. 1 for granted.

Because you have no competition in Naperville, you have performed very poorly as a newspaper. Your circulation numbers don't lie. As someone pointed out a few weeks ago when factoring in the 50% growth in population since the Napergate Era, your 33% decline from 22,000 to 15,200 is horrific. Your decline is probably like 60% or more when factoring in the population explosion.

The National Average is a 13% decline which is internet related. So the difference is a Naperville Sun failure in reading the pulse of the community and what they want. You subscribers would have never dumped you because you went from 3 editions to 6 editions as you wrongly concluded to make yourself feel a touch better and continue your DENIAL. Subscribers don't do that to newspapers they enjoy reading!

Naperville is the wealthiest town in America with over 100,000 people. I verified that last night by checking a Mony/CNN site. They are not going to dump a newspaper because you had to increase your subscription rate for a few more editions assuming you had to do that. I believe they dumped you when those Napergate ads stopped. The newspaper got very boring and dull without those Napergates that did the investigative reporting role that you are not willing to do. If the Napergate Guy continued his weekly ads, your circulation would have been 40,000 or more. Who did not look forward to his Napergate ads? He performed a great Watch Dog role and we knew he was being honest with the readers. His credibility was quite apparent and when the courts verified all he said, of course, his Napergates became even more popular.

But subscribers will dump you if your cater to City Hall and City Police. You cater to them and they dumped you! I am sure of that. No one wants to read a tabloid patting City Officials on the back. You remind me of the Kingdom of Jordan. I was there last summer and the newspaper devoted the first 5 pages to his Majesty the King and how majestic he is. So did all the TV stations that he controlled. Almost laughable! Would not dare say that while I was there! You would be arrested and imprisoned for many years if you dared to criticize his Majesty the King Abdullah son of Hussein! Are we in the Kingdom of Jordan or are we in the United States of America! You will not be jailed if you ask a question.

I believe the Napergate Man was jailed for daring to ask Sgt. Greg Bell a question which was "he believes that Chief David Dial allows discretion and would it be OK to take his dog home before he turns himself in for booking and fingerprinting?" But that was an unusual occurrence and aberration in this country and it not typical of our fine Naperville Police Department. I will tell you it is very typical in the Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan. You don't dare ask questions there...you do as you are told? But I thought we lived in America! Sgt Greg Bell acted inappropriately that evening and if the Chief will not do anything, the Naperville Sun can gain a lot of credibiltiy in this town by showing the courage to CONDEMN HIM in the PRINT EDITION. That would encourage other police officers to behave appropriately and not abuse their authority and discretion. But the Sun is showing weakness by not have the courage to condemn one singe POLICE OFFICER who did abuse his discretion. IT IS SO OBVIOUS HE DID AND EVEN THIS VERY PRO CITY BLOGGER MR. PUBLIC SOMETHING FINALLY ADMITTED IT WAS ABUSE OF DISCRETION! I would like to commend him for his courage and one day in this lifetime I am hoping to be able to commend the Naperville Sun for its courage. But, I am 71 years old so there is not much time left for me before I return to my MAKER! Please don't miss the opportunity for me to commend you as I really want to one day before I pass on!

Do you guys believe the nonsense being fed to you by T.B. and Joe who tell you there is no such thing as "Abuse of Discretion?" The Napergatians cite Supreme Court rulings and you allow these 2 freaks to lie on your blog site while saying you do not tolerate libel. You both know they are lying and you allow them to lie becasue they are pro-City! Think about what that does to the credibility of your newspaper when you knowingly allow your bloggers to lie...yes, KNOWINGLY! As your bloggers have been telling you that is talking the talk without walking the walk. Do you really not see what Nikki is talking about, Jim? I suspect you see it clearly but are in complete DENIAL unable to sever that umbilical cord to City Hall. Sever it Moderator Jim and you will wake up feeling like a brand new person just like a baby who has his umbilical cord severed from his Mom at birth. We need the birth of a new Naperville Sun! All of us! Even the City Officials would finally perform much better and not make such bad decisions such as the library deck in the future and the ATT to MCI switch in the past that the Napergate Man and his supporters reversed to avoid a telephonic attack on City Hall.

I don't see why the editors in the Naperville Sun can't think out of the box. I don't see why the editors are in denial. I don't understand why you are afraid to ask the Police Chief a question or two when you must have an excellent relationship with him since he is your columnist. Plus we are in America and not Jordan!

No offense but you guys at the Naperville Sun look like PUSSY CATS to your readers! I am not trying to offend you but push you in the right direction since you guys have shown an inability to push yourselves in a new direction.

You listen to this Joe freak too much. All he does is lies! Would you rather cater to an insane freak who can only buy one newspaper or 150,000 highly educated Napervillians both Napergatians and Establishment Folks who can buy 50,000 subscriptions if you can ever get it RIGHT??????????????????????????????????????

Moderator Jim,

You showed a ton of class with your second response to Nikki! You showed you can be open minded and willing to change the course of the old Naperville Sun.

I just wanted to say I appreciated your second set of comments to her especially considering your first set was rather harsh!

I really hope we can see your words converted to action as words do get tiring after a while!

Moderator Jim: I'm still at a loss for what you would like either Ted or myself to do. I don't understand this stuff about being "cornered" or "walking the walk" etc. This is an old case. If there is a current filed complaint or if you people would like to hold a rally or demonstration perhaps we would cover it. At the very least, you are blaming the messenger and, honestly, it is NOT appreciated considering how we opened up this forum for your discussion.
Posted by: Nikki | March 10, 2008 03:23 PM


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Moderator JIm,
I think by not appreciating my comments you are indirectly saying if you can't pat us on the back for what we do, please don't use our blogs. I don't think you meant to imply that but that is what your response implied or indicated.

I think these ladies, Virginia and Maryann, were just asking for some changes like an Ann Lander style column with Police Chief.
That is actually an awesome idea, and you completely ignored her as if she was asking for a revolution, whichever one of those 2 mentioned that. Can't recall!

Host Ted stated we are clamoring for communication with the Police Chief. Yes, we are! He is absolutely right! But reading the P. Chiefs columns bragging about the boys in blue is not what we are clamoring for. No offense, Moderator Jim, but what don't you APPRECIATE.? Is that an insult or a good RECOMMENDATION? I think it is the latter.

And yes, we would all like to unmask this Tim West. Let us unmask him. Put up a thread on him as you do on the Napergate Man. Let us see what he is about since he is the connection between the old Sun and the new Sun and really nothing has changed.

The Napergate Man has been unmasked! Thank you Naperville Sun! He turned out to be a great American Hero with 2 crimes in his life.

1.His beater died on him and could no longer pass emissions...wow...!

2.His 16 year who is now in medical school behaved like a 16 years older when she was 16.....wow...!

And you have a bunch of city people attacking him day and night for these 2 "horrific crimes" like he is equal to the serial killer Sgt. Greg Bell arrested. My God! When did you or Host Ted ever yell at the likes of Joe, T.B. or d.bone and asked them to tone it down in their unjustified attacks on this guy! Not once! Instead of defending the small David, you take on the defense of the huge Goliath!

And you are wondering why people think the old Naperville Sun is still the old Naperville Sun.

Moderator Jim, I believe you are a very intelligent person in power. You need to be brave and cut that umbilical cord and start being a professional newspaper independent of City Hall.

You are not at a loss as what we want you and Host Ted to do. You know exactly what we want you to do. While this thread is officially about this silly arrest which should have never occurred, we are using it to communicate our Napergate Views to your staff. That should be obvious!

This is the only thread we can use for this purpose as the Napergate Man stood for the things we stand for. Obviously it would be inappropriate to use the school districts thread for this purpose.

We have much to say as the District 204 people have much to say. You archived us, but gave the District 204 a second thread on your main page. They have 2 threads at the same time. Why don't you give us another thread on the Main Page so you can hear from 300 Napergatians instead of only 10 that sill want to blog while it is archived? Do you think us Napergatians are second class citizens? Do you think we are chopped liver? Show some respect for us and will in return show much respect to you. Notice all the respect the Napergate Man showed to Sgt. Gregg Bell. He got no respect in return. Please don't behave like Sgt. Bell and show us no respect as he showed our former leader no respect.

If you don't want to hold the city accountable, let us grow our numbers to 10,000 on the Napergate threads, so we will hold the city accountable since we all know they monitor your threads, no different than they monitored every word in those Napergate ads.

Just give us a thread and call it Napergate Open Discussion so we don't have to focus on this arrest. I do believe the Napergate Man put this wrongful and belligerant arrest behind him a long time ago. He would never take something so petite to the Supreme Court. He is not going to file suit or he would have filed one a long time.

The revocation of his liquor licenses were revocations of his ability to support his family. It meant losing all his business in Naperville and outside of Naperille and they had serious and riveting effects on him. Those were different! Of course he was going to take those to the Supreme Court. So why is Host Ted constantly challenging him to file suit. The minute he files suit, Host Ted would blast him for daring to waste taxpayer money. You can't win with you folks at the Naperville Sun. You are double standard on issues like these. Almost "Joe Like" as bloggers have noticed before me and will notice after me!

In the DF case, he did file suit. And you have attacked him for filing this suit in your print edition and claiming he was wasting tax payer money. Is that fair?

I challenge you Moderator Jim/ Host Ted to state in the event the Napergate Man files suit, you will not attack him for wasting taxpayer money and filing a frivolous suit. Will you respect his suit, if he files suit? Will you respect his right to justice in our court system?

I did read Mr.Randall today as I read everything written on this thread daily even if I may only write weekly. He makes a very good point for ENTRAPMENT. This is a new theory, I had not heard before in 3 months of bloggin on the Napergate Man. So new things are developing daily. Actually, asking your bloggers if this was ENTRAPMENT may be an excellent idea for a new thread. Let us see what people think of Mr. Randall's theory. He is no Napergate Man but he is highly respected in this community for his efforts. I bet Maryann will agree that this would be a HIT THREAD and that chick has been calling everythng right. Of course, I can't give her too much credit, as anyone can predict a Napergate Thread will bring 300 bloggers. That has become a no brainer but she did figure it out before it was a no brainer, so I will giver her the credit and respect she deserves for being ahead of the rest of us.

I think your bloggers made it clear in the last few day, that his license plates were checked before he entered his vehicle. Even Joe agreed...that is rare! So you know it happened that way, Moderator Jim.

The NPD allowed him to commit a crime. They knew he was about to commit a crime and they permitted him without preventing it. As Joe says how dare anyone drive on a suspended license, and I say how DARE our Naperville Police allowed him to drive on a suspended license knowingly, while endangering so many civilians coming out of the bars.

They knew his license was suspended before he got in his car. It could have been suspended for a DUI or reckless driving charge. If you read Bob's Amazing Post carefully they did not discover the cause of the suspension until they checked the fine print in their police manuals after he was handcuffed or at least asking them not to arrest him for Abby's sake.

So you have a police dept. that potentially endangered the lives of 1000s of intoxicated and wobbly patrons by allowing a man with a suspended license to drive a huge tank size HUMMER H2. Can you imagine the havoc that vehicle can do in the hands of the wrong driver? Have you ever seen one of those? They are the size of a tank!
Yes, I am exagerrating a little in "Joe Like" style to make my point! But only a little as there could have been serious POTENTIAL DANGER if he was DUI offender or reckless driver!

They should have never let him drive once they knew he was suspended. They endangered civilian life since they did not know the suspension was for tolls when the allowed him to drive. They allowed him to drive and endanger civilian life without insurance just so they can ENTRAP him as Mr. Randall has now laid out for us.

It was obviously very important for them to nail this Napergate Man. To teach him a lesson for his prior knock-outs against City Hall and the Police Dept. It was payback time! And they risked the lives of hundreds of people by putting them in harm's way, by allowing a tank to be driven by a man with a SUSPENDED LICENSE. Joe keeps telling us his insurance would have been invalid because he was suspended. I believe him!

Thus the City of Naperville would have been liable if he was a crazy man and decided to take the police dept on a police chase in downtown Naperville. So why would the NPD let him DRIVE KNOWING HE WAS SUSPENDED! Obviously the police officers knew he was not a crazy man but the NAPERGATE MAN! Thus they felt comfortable in letting him drive so they can attempt to nail him not only for this suspension but rolling through a stop sign and not activating a turn signal.

I believe they wanted that stop sign roll and turn signal violations so bad, in order to cover their tracks for running his plates illegally in a selectively targeted mode while he was parked next to Jimmy and 10 feet away from the NPD Headquarters in downtown!

Shawn Collins is a fool for not contacting the Napergate Man and persuading him to file suit. This is a much more powerful suit than the DF suit which is also a very good suit. But this one is iron clad. Bloggers Adam and Mr. Randall put the final nails in the coffin as the bloogers have surmised!

I would like to end this by asking both Host Ted and Moderator Jim to "call out" the Police Dept. on this case. It is not an old case as long as the statute of limitations has not expired. If the statute has not expired this is a current and active case.

Why can't a newspaper like the Naperville Sun call an attorney like Shawn Collins and ask him a simple question about the statute in this case. You guys gave him 3 hours of free publicity and put his Collins Law Firm on the map. You made him known and famous! I am sure he got the District 204 suit because those folks found out about him from reading about the DF case.

So he owes you! Call him and ask him a simple question for us bloggers! That is what investigative newspapers do. That is why we call you the old Naperville Sun. You are unwilling to do nothing. Attorneys love attention from the media! It gets them business and gives them free publicity which in essence is advertising for their firms! They would never talk to a blogger. It gets them nothing! They are dying to talk to the media. Shawn Collins appears to be enjoying his 15 mintues of fame. Take advantage of it before he tires of the media or his 15 minute expires!

I hope you are no longer at a loss as to what the bloggers want you to do. I hope you appreciate my comments. I think you owe me an apology, Moderator Jim, for saying you don't appreciate my well thought out comments because they are DISSENTING. By your uncalled for comments, you are discouraging DISSENT. That is not the role of a professional city newspaper. That is the role preserved for a townsy kissy type of newspaper. I am sure you don't want that LABEL for you newspaper.

Once again we are tired of the old Naperville Sun and we want a new Naperville Sun. A real new Sun! Not a masked new Sun that is playing the old role. What don't you get Moderator Jim? Would you like to meet person to person to discuss this further? I would be happy to meet at a coffee shop to discuss this further as I would love to look you in the eyes when you give me your responses?


Moderator Jim: Okay, Maybe we'll throw up a new thread - and call it Napergate open Forum. Let me think about some of these ideas you put forth. Thanks.

In reading Virginia and Maryann's very insightful posts, it seems the message they are portraying is the Naperville Sun will talk the talk but not walk the walk.

The lack of response by either the Moderator or Host indicates they are not willing to challenge their opinions as they may be true.

It proves their theories that the Naperville Sun is a subsidiary of City Hall. They both practice silence when cornered.

To not refute their allegations on a blog site that is suppose to be a debate forum, shows me that Host Ted and Moderater Jim are very weak when cornered with good arguments, theories or opinions that have the appearance of being true!

We have seen Host Ted write nice essays on this thread when he has a point to make. When he is cornered he writes nothing!

Moderator Jim: I'm still at a loss for what you would like either Ted or myself to do. I don't uderstand this stuff about being "cornered" or "walking the walk" etc. This is an old case. If there is a current filed complaint or if you people would like to hold a rally or demonstration perhaps we would cover it. At the very least, you are blaming the messenger and, honestly, it is NOT appreciated considdering how we opened up this forum for your discussion.

T.B.,

Did you ever think maybe McFarland called you dense because of statements like this that you make.


"3. The term “abuse of discretion” is a myth. No such thing exists."


You apparently are not reading the long letters posted on this thread so I am going to write shorter letters today.

The Illinios Supreme Court ruled in 1988 by a uanmimous 9-0 decision that former Mayor Margaret "Hatchet" Price "abused her discretion" in revoking the liquor license of Extra Value Liquors and REVERSED her.

The revocation was overturned and he was able to keep his license for another dozen or so years until he apparently voluntarily sold his retail liquor store.

So when you state "abuse of discretion" does not exist and is a myth, you just proved to us that the 2 degrees you state you have were not earned but bought off the internet.

There is no other reason how you could be this DENSE with 2 higher education degrees. Case closed!

You would be wise to go blog with the cartoon characters on the District 204 threads since you are more of a mobile cartoon than an educator.

This thread is for serious people with common sense and logic.

Not for a dense guy that tells us the highest court in the STATE and the top 9 Justices don't know what they are talking about.

Either you are dense or the Supreme Court Jusitices who specialize in such matters are dense!?!?

Sorry T.B., I am siding with the Supreme Court Justices of Illinions and concurring ABUSE OF DISCRETION certainly exists!

Maryann –

I will come around or be destroyed? That almost sounds like a threat. And I’m a freak, incompetent, and a loser, huh? As I wrote to McFarland, please explain why the Napergatians feel they have to attack anyone who thinks for themselves?

You also must not follow golf or you would know that it is highly politically incorrect to suggest someone should be lynched. Shame on you. Perhaps you should seek out some sensitivity training? Maybe look into some anger management while you’re at it, OK?

You think that I’m some freakish incompetent loser for not changing my mind and agreeing with you. On the contrary, I think that I’m an independent thinker not easily swayed by the mob mentality being presented here. Trust me, it would be easier to agree with you rather than put up with the string of insults I receive from you and your cohorts merely for stating my opinion in these threads. I could quit blogging here, but I won’t give you the satisfaction of bullying me off the thread.

And just what did you mean about me defending the city manager? I don’t believe I’ve ever written one word about the temp city manager so now you’re just making stuff up.

Back on topic…

1. The NGM’s driver’s license was suspended. He does not deny this. He owned up to the mistake and corrected the matter.
2. The traffic stop was done for a valid law enforcement reason.
3. The term “abuse of discretion” is a myth. No such thing exists. There is nothing that says the cops should not have cuffed the NGM. You claim they did not have to, but unless he was the only person ever handcuffed during an arrest for driving on a suspended license then he was not treated unfairly.
4. The cops don’t give a rat’s ass about the NGM’s dog. They left her in the care of an adult. It’s not like they left the dog tied to a tree or something. Leaving the dog with Bob was the best option (note that taking the dog to jail with the NGM is not an option).
5. The arrest report lists the “disposition” time as 0400. I have not seen any fact that indicates this was, indeed, the release time. The report lists the disposition as bond posted by self. Could it have taken longer for him to then be released? Who knows? Governments are not known for being efficient. Unless someone from the NPD explains this, anything else is just an assumption.
6. The only person who has any standing to complain about the NGM’s treatment at the hands of the NPD is the NGM himself. He hasn’t filed a complaint or a lawsuit, so why are you still pursuing this?
7. NOT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO THE NGM IS PART OF SOME HUGE CONTINUING CONSPIRACY.

I’m sure you and others are going to write back now and fill in the gaps or otherwise correct my story. That’s fine, but remember that assumptions and speculation are not facts. Unless you have something new that has yet to be written, I see nothing that ties this incident to any huge conspiracy.

Get me facts, Maryann, and the verdict can be unanimous. Absent facts, this is a hung jury.

T.B.

I'll give Joe his conspiracy theory since he has so many of his own theories he has thrown out.

Since it was dark outside at 1:00 a.m. and the street lighting is not the brightest along Jackson, it is doubtful that a police officer could read the license plate unless the police car was immediately behind Mr. Esmail's vehicle. Of course, maybe this particular police officer has eagle eyes and can read license plates from 50 feet away in a dim lighting setting. Thus, the police office would have been driving and also would have had to pay attention to his driving (so not to hit one of the drunken patrons looking for their car at that time of the morning). Therefore, it would have take a little bit of time to decide to read the license plate, to actually read the license plate of a moving vehicle (and perhaps to catch up to the vehicle so that the license plate could be read), and then go through thru the process of getting information about the status of the owner of the vehicle. Since he entire trip of Mr. Esmail's from start to stop likely took less than a minute, we would really have to praise the police officer on his superb efficiency.

The more likely scenario is that the license plate was scanned while the vehicle was still parked. Joe feels that it would have been a random act; but, like me, he has no clue as to what actually happened. Should the police have actually scanned the license plate while the vehicle was parked and determined that the owner's driver’s license was also now suspended, then what they did afterward was a form of entrapment. The police would have already known the driver would commit an act (before he actually committed it) that they could arrest him for. Instead of trying to prevent him from actually driving and thus saving him from a catastrophic event (should he have gotten in an accident as his insurance would not have been in force, according to Joe), the police decided on the entrapment strategy by letting him first drive and then arresting him. A concerned police force would have wanted to not let him drive once they became aware of his suspended license and could have notified him by putting a note on his windshield. Did the police know beforehand who the driver actually was? Not unless they recognized him personally when he approached the vehicle and got in to drive. Someone else could have been driving the vehicle.

Also, when they stopped him a minute after he started driving the car, did they first ask to see his driver's license to identify that he was actually the person whose license was suspended? Or, did they already know who he was and therefore arrested him on that basis?


I think it's pretty obvious what needs to be done. Everyone needs to chip in $204 and sue the city so we can get to the bottom of this.

Some people's insistence about how something 'must have happened' is beyond explanation.

Every-time I read a blog by certain individuals this always comes to mind because it looks to me like it's the same sort of mindset.

http://scherle.com/psychoexgirlfriend/voicemails.html

Enjoy your monday.

Moderator Jim,
Did you not promise us a few months ago we would be seeing more about the Napergate Man and/or Napergate issues in the print edition? I just wanted to remind you of that promise you made 2 months ago to your bloggers!

For some odd reason it seems you guys can not keep your promises because you are pressured by City Officials and can not tell them you are not a subsidiary of City Hall but an independent newspaper that wants to report the news as it sees FIT. Kind of like the New York Times reports the news that it sees FIT and is not a subsidiary of New York's City Hall!

Whatever is happening, I will steal more words from this famous Napergate Man and say it is "PERCEIVED" you guys are controlled by City Hall.

Naperville I believe is one of the 50 largest cities in America(I think I read it was 43 but can't remember for certain) but you guys are acting like you are in a small town where the Newspaper and City Hall are usually engaged if not married! We really don't want our newspaper to be like that! Naperville is a big city and we want our newspaper to perform like a big city newspaper....with full independence from City Hall and City Police!

Tim West seems to be the common denominator between the old Sun and "new" Sun that has kept the newspaper under control of City Hall. We learned that the Napergate Man was the common denominator in so many victories against City Hall whether involving ATT, development, zoning, the Brestal Law Firm, local elections for council members or his personal liquor court battles against City Hall. His massive influence in town has been finally UNMASKED thanks to the Blog Site of the Naperville Sun.

Why don't we now try to unmask Tim West and try to discover if he is the common denominator between the old and the "new" Sun. Let us try to uncover who the real boss is at the Naperville Sun. Is it Tim West or Jim Lynch? I suspect the way it looks like to me is that Jim Lynch is a puppet serving Tim West under the "banner we are moving forward to a new Sun." I believe Tim West manipulates how far he will allow Editor/Publisher Jim Lynch take on City Hall. After that first Napergate Edition, Tim West told Jim Lynch no more! You rocked the establishment! Stop rockin them or we will never see an end to the pressure they will put on us! Just like the massive pressure they put on us when we could not run Napergate V and VI. We don't need that kind of pressure in the Naperville Sun. It is more fun just wrting lollaby columns that put people to sleep. As long as we get our paychecks who needs all that heat, Mr. Lynch!

It is widely known in Napergate Circles that Tim West vetted all those Napegate ads for accuracy before they were shipped to attorneys in California for libel review. Mr. West knew so much about Napergate and yet made sure the Naperville Sun never covered it. Now Moderator Jim wants the bloggers to believe there is a serious change taking place at the "new" Naperville Sun...but who controls the opinion and letters to the editor...you guessed it...Tim West! Who controls whether we see more Napergate articles....you guessed it....Tim West!

Response from Ted:

We have no regrets for starting the blogs. And I don't see a conflict in us providing an opportunity for Chief Dial to communicate with the public. something a lot of people here seem to be clamoring for.

Posted by: Norma | March 9, 2008 08:28 AM

*****************************************************************

Yes, Ted, we are clamoring for communication with Chief Dial. His column is not communication. Mostly he brags about himself and his employees in his column. He is not communicating. He is simply padding himself and his employees on the back. In one column he pats himself on the back for going to a Homeland Security meeting as if the terrorists are going to bomb Naperville before New York or L.A. The terrorists never heard of Naperville so let us get real and focus on real issues. In another column he brags about a former cop.

This is not the communication we are clamoring for. You know what we are asking. Why don't you guys ever change anything in that newspaper. Why don't you allow readers to send him questions that he answers in his columns like the old Ann Lander's columns. That would really be a hit. Thar would really be true COMMUNICATION! That is what we are CLAMORING!

I have a pretty good record of predicting hits. I suggested this latest thread would be hit but never thought to this extent. And I will admit this thread is not following the usual pattern of dying after it gets off the Main Page. I suspect people are finally learning how to navigate your blogs a little better. I also think it was taken off prematurely and people wanted to solve the mystery as bloggers do not like UNFINISHED BUSINESS!

The library thread died because only one person wanted the parking deck and she refused to debate. So of course it is going to die. People can't debate 4 walls either!

This thread has 5 or 10 pro city people trying to get in the last word before it dies, and it appears the Napergatians are not going to let them have the last word if it is not accurate and honest.

I also agree there were major developments since it was archived.

1. Adam doing that recreation of events which was awesonme. Don't know why you ridiculed him for spending 2 minutes of his time while he was downtown or passing downtown. You have always asked people to get off their butts, and when they do, you mock them. Uncalled for Ted! It is nice to see him join Ameena and Melissa and actually do research and/or visit sites. I hope to be the next blogger to visit a site. I actually wish I would have thought of doing what Adam did. It was so simple yet so important to solving the mystery as how it could have happened. He did rule out the possibility this could have been done after he started driving. It had to start when he was parked next to all those cops who planned the operation as if he was some kind of "terrorist." Chief Dial must have been preaching homeland security to our men in blue and they got carrred away!

2. The other significant event was John. Q. Public coming around in the jury room so we can get a unanimous decision of 210 jurors. We still have a long ways to go with people like Joe or T.B. but they will either come around or will be destroyed. It really seems they have no credibility, especially Joe, and they are just about finsished. Let us hope the Judge tosses them. Of course, Moderator Jim is the Judge and you are the Defense Attorney for the City and Police. So we will have to wait and see what Judge Jim Lynch does with those 2 freaks. They need to by lynched by Judge Lynch.(not serious just put it in for fun) They are freaks if I ever met freaks. What jury would tolerate incompetents like those 2? Joe blatantly lies when 200 Napergatians have him under a microscope. How ingnorant is that? That is like running a red light with those new video cameras installed on the light poles. No one is going to get away and Joe is not going to get away.

The Naperville Lawyer ripped him apart. I enjoyed Police Officer a few days ago. The only one we are missing is Mrs. of the Police Officer. That lady was so classy! But she is not going to associate herself with losers like Joe and T.B.! Suspend them for a week for their lies and distortions and I bet Mrs. of the Police Officer will come back and give us a responsible debate based on truth and accuracy. Not one based on distortion and lies!

Sincerely,
Maryann

PS. I hope you realize Host Ted/ Moderator Jim that you are hurting your posting and viewing numbers by not giving an easy connection to this site. It is not on your Main Page. Two different links from your Home Page advertise many dead blogs. And it is not in your print edition. You are doing everything in the world to put the nails in the coffin on this one and yet is has 358 posts heading to 400 soon.

This latest thread had about 50 names I have never seen before. So you guys are getting more and more posters. Why you choose not grow your threads to the maximum is beyond me? You should not be the ones to determine the topics of interest. Your bloggers should be.

The Napergate Man story in an interesting story because it was masked by the Naperville Sun for the better part of 2 decades. I think because it was masked, it has got so much interest. This guy is very well known especially in the Easter Sector of Naperville. Everyone heard of him there. He is not as well known in the extreme SW part of town as he was not active when that area was being built up. But the people that did not know of him learned about him quickly from your print edition and blogging sites.

His story in interesting. The piano men story is boring. It was most probably a business failure and a hundred of those take place every day in Chicagoland. This guy's story is about a MAN who beat City Hall a half dozen times and is hassled and harrassed by the police. Maybe everyone is wrong! But everyone is pereceiving it that way and until the Chief of Police comes out and says, "It ain't so," you and I know the stroy will get bigger and bigger."

Chief Dial's silence is making this story big because people have become very suspicious. And it sure did not help the credibility of Chief Dial when his former employee and now boss Bob Marshall told the Naperville Sun it cost 5-10k in legal fees to fight the Napergate Man...this is who you should be mocking Ted and not Adam! Do you have the courage to mock Mr. Marshall in your PRINT EDITION for such an absurd statement? Does Moderator Jim have the courage to mock Mr. Marshall for this ridiculous statement. I doubt it or it would have done! But mocking Citizen Journalist ADAM is OK...eh!

So we see Chief Dial surrounding himself with the likes of Bob Marshall with 0 credibility. In contrast we see the Napergate Man surrounding himself with former Chief James Teal, ATT Executive MBA Randy, Commander Dan Shanower, Amazing Bob, Realtor Liebert, Liquor Man Rick, Activist Don Rogers, Attorney and Homeowners V. President Richard Strawbridge, and the list does not end of credible people associating with the Napergate Man. Who are we going to believe? A man who surrounds himself with credible people or a Police Chief who has an empoloyee and now a boss who blatantly lies! We know that the Napergate preaches to his supporters never to lie, always tell the truth, and if you can't, keep your mouths shut.

What did Chief David Dial teach Captain Bob Marshall when he worked for him? He could not even teach a grown man not to lie! He needs to take responsiblity for allowing this guy to come up thru his ranks like this while never learing that lying is not acceptable. And we all know the Napergate Man is not afraid to go to court and plead guilty even though he is usually very remotely responsible it seems in all cases. When will pro tem City Manager Bob Marshall take responsibility for the lie he told the Naperville Sun and residents....NEVER!

And Joe and T.B. makes fools of themselves defending a City Manager who lies. I will give credit to the City Council for not making him the City Manager of our town and searching for someone better. What a way to start your new career....LYING TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS!

Todd,

How many claims do you process for your customers who have accidents while driving with a suspended license? How many claims does your company try to deny because someone's license was suspended when they had an accident? What's the per year dollar difference of Money paid out to cover accident damages and injuries and what's the amount of money denied payout for accident damages and injuries to customers who had a suspended license at the time of the accident?

I was not talking towing charges, I said ACCIDENT and LIABILITY and COVERAGE for said accident. But please, get me those numbers because I would love to know them.

Payout for a tow is NOTHING compared to the payout for an accident. Are you going to tell me your company would rather pay out $100,000 in damages and medical bills than lose a customer because they drove with a suspended license and had an accident with injuries? If so, let me know the company name because I will short the living daylights out of their stock this next week.


---

Samantha: Who cares when it was run? No one on here knows when with and undisputed certainty. I made a guess but it could have been done at any time because the turn around time on a query like that is immediate.

---

McFarland: I was not here in 1993 so I care more about a pimple on my dog's behind than I do about what happened in a place 15 years ago to a man I never met in a town I wasn't living in at the time. Further, what does anything that transpired then have to do with now? I used to work 36 hours straight sleep 10 hrs, go back work another 36 constantly with a startup company back in 1993. I don't ask for a medal or preferential treatment nor do I want it today because of what I did then. So what? Who cares and what relevance does it have on what I do today? Um.... None. And why should you give a ratt's butt? You shouldn't, nor should I be mad at you for not. Life's that simple.

McFarland –

If we’re really talking about someone who understood deadlines since he ran so many businesses, then please explain why he had two suspended licenses.

Is throwing out notices because they come in “junk mail-like envelopes” really an excuse? If so, I can skip out on allot of bills.

It seems to me the NGM owned up to his errors, but the rest of you want to fight his battles against his will.

T.B.

Joe,
Regarding your quote,

"Still, none of this proves anything conspiratorial or illegal in the way it was handled."

Let me ask you? Are you willing to concede that the Napergate Kangaroo Trial of 1993 that has been discussed here extensively was a probable or likely conspiracy between City Officials, City Attorneys, City Police and Park District Police?

A concession here would give you some credibility on these blogs. I think you know the rulings of the many courts after the Kangaroo Trial and you in fact even posted the result of the Federal Appellant Court correctly! You also know the ruling of the Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force and you know what they called our City Officials and a handful of police officers. Unlike the courts who are immune from lawsuits for libel or slander, you must be fully aware this mulit-billion dollar liquor organization is not immune from lawsuits and could have been taken to the cleaners by City Attorneys if it was not telling the truth. The City Attorneys cleverly ignored them hoping the courts would rule otherwise. It did not work!

I gave you a little summary to refresh your memory. I doubt you needed it.

So please answer this simple question, Joe, without slicing, dicing or diverting.

WAS THERE A CONSPIRACTY BY CITY OFFICIALS, CITY ATTORNEYS, CITY POLICE AND PARK DISTRICT POLICE IN THAT INFAMOUS 1993 NAPERGATE KANGAROO TRIAL?

I would also like to hear Host Ted's opinion on that trial as he also undoubtedly read the hundreds upon hundreds of posts about this issue the last 3 months. I also suspect he read the 44 Napergate ads that he pulled out for the bloggers to review at the library if they so desired. And he knows they were vetted for accuracy by Sun Executives and Attorneys? So I would like to hear his opinion!

I think if the bloggers can see you guys can admit the obvious, you credibility becomes enhanced substantially and bloggers give great credence to what you say as long as you portry the current facts as honeslty as possible without distrotions.(my last comment is directed at Joe and not Host Ted).

Thanks again for letting us blog on your threads, Host Ted!

PS. I also would not mind hearing Moderator Jim's opinion on the 1993 Kangaroo Trial as I believe he also read every post here. Don't know how you guys make time, but you apparently do to avoid libelous posts and I commend you for your efforts and an extremely well run BLOG SITE.

Joe,
I don't recall you conceding prior to this latest exchange that his license was run while parked. I think before this latest exchange you were always saying "IF" his license was run while parked it would have been legal.

I will admit I have only been able to read less than half the Napergate posts as they seem to have exceeded over a 1000 and I have 2 little boys I have to worry about whom are very time consuming.

So if you can point to me where you conceded this, accept my apologies in advance, Joe!

Joe,

As to (what else is new, eh?). You must be with either a bad insurance company or not speaking reality.

Regarding this statement of yours:


"As for no harm coming to society if he was not arrested that night, let me remind you that if he were involved in an accident his insurance would not cover the person he hit because he was breaking the law at the time of the accident and it would not have covered him.
IL law says you must have insurance *AND* a license to drive."


We are constantly reimbursing customers for towing charges who were driving on a suspended license knowingly or unknowingly. Most times we don't even bother asking them why they were towed by police. Most times they volunteer the information as they are so upset and need to vet and justify.

We reimbure a maximum of $100 dollars for any towing regardless of reason. If we did not, we would have no customers. Most of the problems we have with our customers is towing in Naperville is between $150 to $200 dollars and are customers are angry that so much is coming out of their pockets. My company is a national company and in most parts of the country $100 covers a short tow of 3-7 miles. The Naperville Tow Trucks that Naperville Police call are just charging way too much. That is more the issue, than if we would pay the towing charge of a suspended driver.

No matter what are by-laws and rules say, we are not going to risk losing all these customers who are suspended for tolls and emissions. If we lost them to other insurance companies, you and I know we would be out of business, Joe! There is a lot of common sense that takes place before any corportation applies the fine print you are talking about. You are no dummy, Joe! You know that!

"I think what seems to be the mystery that is left is what his licnense plate targeted or randomly run."
--Samantha


Ask the NPD. You have the IR# from the top of the file Ted posted.

Anyone who believes it was anything other than a unlucky random coincidence should ask them.

How long would one continue to drive w/ a suspended license if he did not know about it as claimed?

Host Ted,
I don't know why everyone makes a big deal when these threads are off the Main Page. It takes 4 clicks instead of one and you are there. Two seconds instead of a split second! If people are willing to write letters it semms like they should be willing to navigate to find the link. I bet you with a faster internet service you can find it in less than a second.

I was impressed witht the second part of Mr. Public's post. I was not sure if part was his and the finishing part was yours or if all was his. Below is the part for reference:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One more thing, if it's true that the NGM did not receive notice from the Tollway Authority of his license suspension until AFTER his arrest, then that bothers me at least as much as any of the allegations made against the NPD. There certainly should be more due process (and notice!) required by the authorities before such a drastic measure is take. I'd hate to think that any one of us otherwise law-abiding citizens could be unwittingly driving around town illegally. Ted, maybe the Sun should explore THAT angle of this story.

JQP:

Our competitors the Daily Herald recently did an expose on the tollway authority, how for two years the notices didn't go out, or something like that. It was outsourced, you'll recall, and the company that got contract didn't send any missed toll notices out, though I forget why.

Posted by: John Q. Public | March 8, 2008 11:31 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It seems like the second part is yours even though you forgot to label it as from Host Ted. I think it is the first time you ever forget to take credit for what you wrote.

I have to agree that these drastic and draconian measures should not be taken by the Tollway Authority without proper notice. It seems in the Napergate Case they sent the notice late. It seems for a while they did not send notices at all. I think some bloggers wrote the notices looked like junk mail.

If you are going to suspend someone and initiate an arrest, shouldn't the damn Tollway Authority at least send a Certified Letter return receipt requested. If a person signs that letter and ignores it, he or she does deserve to be arrested. But to send a junk mail looking letter, no letter, or a late letter is ridiculous.

I have no doubt the Napergate Man got his notice late as his 2 friends stated. They are both not going to lie. Plus we all know he parked in a bee nest full of cops. Of course he did not get that letter in time! Some people on these blogs really have no common sense!

Since this has become Ted's Court instead of Ted's Threads lately, do you really think any jury in Dupage Country would believe this brilliant man would drive his car suspended and voluntarily go downtown for the pleasure of a walk where density of cops is very high and park right next to them knowingly?


If he knew he was suspended since he was meeting a friend, would he not ask his friend to drive that night until he could take care of those .40 cents violations Monday Morning? You are not talking about a loser here. You are talking about a man who understood deadlines. At one time he owned 6 businesses and ran Napergate ads. He knows what deadlines and notices mean. If he ignored deadlines, do you think he could have run 6 business in 3 towns for so many years! It really does defy logic that this particular man with all his accomplishments, volunterism, good deeds, and responsibility would toss a serious notice in the garabage. And if you have multi-businesses, you check all your mail very carefully, as any piece of mail could have serious consequences to your businesses if not handled properly.

I just wanted to get on and tell Mr. Public he did a great job especially with the second half of his letter. At some point a jury comes to reason, and he seems to have come to reason. Maybe delaying the jury verdict, but doing his homework to be sure.

As far as this Joe fella, he could never survive a jury in deliberations. They jury would ask the judge to remove him and he would be removed. He would even argue that John Wayne Gacy was innocent as long as the other 11 argued he was guilty. It is his nature and he is not going to change. I just wish we would stop lying and misquoting people. That is not good for the reputation of Ted's Courts.

Didn't think people were still bloggin about the Napergate Man after it was off the Main Page. Surprised to see some action.

Tried that Greatwire.com thread since I am not really interested in 204. Really don't even know what those guys and gals are fighting about since they have 2 good schools and getting a 3rd Taj Mahal.

Anyway, I see timelines here solving half the mystery. Unfortunatley 90% of the bloggers will never know about this time line that solved the half the mystery.

In the D. Peterson case, what they need is the time line that they just can't get. That is what is killing that case. Another thing killing the solving of that case is the bloggers on that site are dingalings.(the state police have proven incompetent in both the Stacy and Savio murders so I am not expecting them to shed any light) The Greta Bloggers are dummies...all of them. Not one could be thought of a citizen journalist. One after another makes a stupider remark than the other.

I want to praise you Host Ted for you ability to recruit so many Citizen Jouranlists in less than a year. What I like about your threads is they are serious threads with serious people trying to solve serious issues. Keep up the great work!

I hope there is a way the other 90% of the bloggers will find out that half the Napergate Mystery was solved after the thread was off the main page. Maybe at some point someone will get the clue to solve the other half!

I think what seems to be the mystery that is left is what his licnense plate targeted or randomly run. I wish someone could give a legal opinon on that one. None of your citizen journalists have been able to tackle that one. I know this will drive you nuts, but you may need another thread to try to solve the last component of the mystery. I really believe someone out there knows the answer!!

Marshall,

Please consider the following possibility as well:

I already stated early on that the tag was probably ran while parked. Why people are still trying to argue that I have no clue. That was conceded immediately and pretty much dismissed as a "So what" because tags are in public view and it's normal to run them on parked vehicles to see if there are any unsavory characters around the downtown area (or any other areas). Welcome to normal police procedure.

There's no doubt amongst anyone here (except those still trying to set up pointless strawman arguments) that there were multiple units following the H2 that evening as it left Chicago Ave and headed northbound on Jefferson. WHY 3 were headed north is nothing but speculation. Some believe they were targeting the H2, I put forth that some could have been heading north to take up positions to later watching for DUIs. Some could have been following because it was seen that the H2 was now being driven after a plate run previously showed the registered driver to have a suspended license. The WHY does not matter and can not be proven and there are perfectly legal reasons WHY 3 units were headed northbound. It's not unusual that when one unit makes a stop that others nearby stop as well for 'backup'. Again, normal procedure. This is done for multiple reasons. 1) An officer does not want a Multi Vs ONE scenario if they don't have to have it. 2) Often times, it is good to have another pair of eyes at the scene. This protects not only the arresting officer but also the one being arrested. Traffic might need to be re-directed, areas closed off, crowds controlled, etc.

Again, it all comes down to: So What? Nothing is proven or disproved by this.

As for no harm coming to society if he was not arrested that night, let me remind you that if he were involved in an accident his insurance would not cover the person he hit because he was breaking the law at the time of the accident and it would not have covered him.

IL law says you must have insurance *AND* a license to drive.

Was it 'not a nice thing to do' to handcuff him? Maybe yes maybe no. If he had complied without trying to argue on the scene and jump right into trial mode, maybe it would have gone differently. I am making that assumption, again based on Bob's account of the situation that he instead tried to argue and name drop about why he should not be arrested instead of simply complying first with the police request and THEN saying something after he was already restrained and the dynamics of the situation changed on scene.

Still, none of this proves anything conspiratorial or illegal in the way it was handled. If anything it should be used as an example of taking care of business before small problems turn into big problems and also how NOT to behave at the scene. If you are given a lawful order, comply or at the very least ACKNOWLEDGE that order and state that you are in the process of complying.

Now, before someone tries to argue that it was an unlawful order let me tell you that you have to prove it wasn't lawful. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time on here. (what else is new, eh?)

It seems to me the only thing left for us to know is why the Napergate Man has not retained a lawyer to at least investigate the abuse and see if he has a case.

My guess is he wants to keep good relations with Mayor George Pradel who he likes and treats him well. Just a hunch but I am really clueless!

I will say that Adam did convince me that his license plates were checked while he was parked. You just can not run a license plate that quickly after he took off and dispatch 3 police vehicles who would be at the scene in less than 55 seconds. There are way too many civilians downtown when the bars let out on a summer weekend for police vehicles to be speeding after a tollway violation situation where no possible could harm could come to society if he was not caught or arrested that evening.

In addition we are paying these police officers overtime to keep an eye on intoxicated bar patrons. I doubt Police Chief Dial would authorize overtime to do random checking of license plates when it can be done on non-overtime pay or by community officers who make much less than sworm officers.

I believe the police dept. was wrong in their handling of the Napergate Man. By not apoogizing they made the situation and story escalate and become even worse. This story got very big because Chief David Dial refused to make a statement making almost everyone speculate that Sgt. Greg Bell did something terribly wrong. Now the specualtion has turned into widespread belief!

NL and Rebecca,

Thank you for pointing out that Bellen was creating a straw man argument about a 'how it must have happened' that I never stated with putting forth the scenario of them jumping into their patrol cars and blowing 3 stop signs to rush up to Jefferson/Main by arguing in their points 5 & 6 about something I never said and arguing a situation they completely made up.

Please tell the minions to stop inventing facts. It continually makes them look like immature ignorant fools.

If you read their point 5, you see that they (BELLEN) created a dumb fictitious scenario just to try to argue against it. Then, in point 6, tries to pin that stupid idiotic fictitious scenario that they just made up in #5, on me with the verbiage: "You want us to believe that cops would be flying to get the Napergate Man..."

Please save this for the high school debate team where that crap actually might work.

Mr. Ted,
It does seem like Joe likes to distort what one says. I would like to see you ask him to politely stop distorting and learn how to tell the truth!

Between your Blogs and his Police Blogger, this guy appears to have no life. It seems like lying is what he lives for. People with low self esteem lie as it makes them feel like it helps them with their esteem but it actually ends up damaging their esteem once they are exposed. Many thanks to Naperville Lawyer for exposing him! I don't think he will change, though! He does need either you or Moderator Jim to issue him a warning! We could get a week of honesty out of that guy but that would be it!

Response from Ted:

Your wish is granted. I was playing devil's advocate.

Posted by: Lilian | March 9, 2008 12:33 PM


Host Ted,

Just curious! Were you kidding or serious?

Rebecca

__________________________________________________________________


Naperville Lawyer,

Very nice analysis! Joe did not make any sense. Beilin never called Bob a liar. I wish Host Ted would not allow that libelous Joe to blog with us or at least ask him to stop lying. Ted did say many times he does not tolerate libel, but he allows Joe to libel. It was very clear! I would like to ask Host Ted to reread that post and issue a warning. But please keep it on so others can see how Joe lies! This time he lost it and was to shamefully obvious!

Rebecca

"In my posts on this board so far I have largely attempted to play devil's advocate, but I will say this: it does sound like Sgt. Bell's fit of temper was not called for. And I CAN be convinced that the NGM could have and should have been let go that night. But the fact that he was arrested could just mean that one cop didn't like it when the NGM mentioned Chief Dial and/or that he was in a bad mood and/or that he's just a jerk who likes being a cop because he enjoys the sense of authority it gives him over civilians."


Mr. John Q. Public,
I was very impressed with your above statement. It is nice to see you distinguish yourself from Joe who has no credibility. I see what you said was different than me but we seem to agree. Here is what I said:


"What is pretty shameful is that your cop buddy judged the Napergate Man in the hardest and harshest way imaginable. He threw the book at him and gave him the worse treatment possible. How very shameful!"
Posted by: Lillian | March 8, 2008 06:28 PM


I think we both agree even though we said it very differently. I was emotional when I said what I said. You sound calm, cool and collected. I am grateful for your statement since you seem to have been gunning so strongly for the other side. Nice to know you were only playing Devil's Advocate! I wish Host Ted would tell us he has also been playing Devil's Advocate! That would means a lot to numerous bloggers as we feel the Napergate Man was abused after he was stopped for no reason! And that his plates were targeted and ran for no good reason! It just all smells and looks like "shady police" at work in our fine Naperville Community! We don't need that! We should be above that!

The Police Chief should make a statement and assure us this was an aberration and not typical police behavior. His silence leads me to believe this is typical police behavior and not an aberration! Very frightening that we would have gang style police on our force picking on innocent civilians walking a dog. Worse than those Chicago cops who started up with those pool players in that bar. Those pool players were at least drinking and could have said something to spark the officers. These 2 guys were minding their own business, having a conversation and walking a dog. How could the police behave in such a MEAN WAY???


Response from Ted:

Your wish is granted. I was playing devil's advocate.

No, Bob already said they were behind them the whole way.

I'm taking Bob's account at face value and accepting as fact that the units were behind them the whole way.

Are you now saying Bob is a liar in his account of what happened that night?

If you are, you better put on the fire suit because I am going to laugh as you get flamed for calling a Napergatian a liar by giving a different account of events that are contrary to what he said he saw
Posted by: Joe | March 9, 2008 12:15 AM

__________________________________________________________________

Joe,
What you did was amazing! You went out of your way to disagree and disprove, Beilen, and you suddenly conclude both he and Bob are right and you agree with them.

Beilen never called Bob a liar! He will not be flamed for calling a Napergatian a liar! You are the one implying that he called him a liar! You are the one falsifying the facts to imply he called him a liar!

Beilen agreed with Bob! This is what he said:


"6.You want us to believe that cops would be flying to get the Napergate Man on .40 cent violations and endangering civilian life for a non-emergency. NOT likely, the fine NPD would rush to the scene of a man who was just found to have driven on a suspended license based on a toll violation. How ludicrous! Honestly! Give me a break here, Joe! You are dead wrong!"

If you read carefully what Beilen said in no. 6, he agrees fully with Bob. He is stating that this scenario is unlikely and not LIKELY! He is agreeing with Bob. Your guess Joe, that they ran the plate when he was parked is most probably right, too.

So really there is no argument here where you attempted to create one for no reason. Bob, Beilen and you all agree that most probably the plates were run while he was parked. I also agree with you guys. Others have agreed. It is very unlikely they could have had 3 police cars tailing him 100-200 feet from his starting point next to Jimmy's and by the time he reached Chicago Ave and Main Street, if they ran his plates after he began driving! I would say highly improbable! Common sense defies they can read a plate, call a dispatcher, have her insert the license plate digits in the computer, and return the status all in 5 seconds. You would think the dispatcher wants to read what is on the computer screen at least twice to make sure she is not missing something and issuing wrongful information that could lead to a false arrest and litigaion! I think when you make such improbable statements you continue to tarnish your credibility assuming you have any left after your attack on Beilen.

Adam shows when someone is willing to leave this blog site and do 2 minutes of work how much can be accomplished. Adam took 2 minutes of his time while he was downtown to recreate the scene and evaluate distance and time. Based on what Adam did for us, I don't think it would be wise for the NPD to ascertain they ran his plates while they were following him. It would not be believable to any one of 12 jurors let alone to all 12 jurors!

They ran his plates while he was parked, 99.99% chance or better. All the Napergate Man needs to prove is that they specifically targeted his vehicle in a non-random discriminatory check and he has got a very good lawsuit. I doubt the police on that intersection would say they never heard of him. Those 1000 ID confiscations will tie at least one if not all those police to having seen the Napergate Man personally while handing them the fake IDs. Since it has been disclosed that Sgt. Greg Bell is no rookie but a Sergeant with 20 years of experience the likelihood he personally was never called to the Bailey Road store is almost 0 over 20 years.

It is highly improbable that police who are stationed to watch for bar patrons and their drinking would be doing random checking of plates on a very busy summer weekend in downtown. It is more likely they would be making sure no drunk driver got behind a wheel. More likely they would follow an intoxicated person who did not take a cab to his car to nail him for a DUI. That would be good police work!

To have focused their energy on a guy who walked out of an H2 with a friend and a dog to take a simple walk along the Riverwalk defies logic. What is suspicious about that to instigate any police officer to check his plates? The only thing that would make sense is they knew who he was and targeted him as they have repeatedly in the past hoping to get him on something. They got him on something and instead of treating him with respect as he treated them, they chose to disrespect him.

He not only was polite but made sure his friend was polite, respectful and quiet. Bob did not say ONE SINGLE WORD! The Napergate Man has no criminal record. Before arresting and hand cuffing him, Sgt. Greg Bell and police officers on the scene were fully aware it was a tollway violation suspension as they had checked their manuals according to Bob!

The police officers knew he did not know about this suspension. Apparently obvious since he parked right next to them. A guilty person does not park by 12 police officers on a busy intersection!

With the sophistication of computers when they were checking the cause of the violation, they knew it was not one of the cars he drove but was one of the cars he did not drive from the license plate. It is not hard for police to know who is driving a Rolls Royce and a yellow Hummer downtown on a regular basis. My guess is they have stopped him many times before. Rolls Royce's in downtown Naperville are extremely rare. I have maybe seen 2 yellow Hummers downtown at the most making them also rare! Great odds that besides knowing him very well, they also knew his cars very well!

This is really a case where cops need to know how to exercise proper discretion. If there was ever a case I have ever heard of that deserved for someone to turn himself in voluntarily instead of be hand cuffed and jailed, THIS IS THE CASE! Plus he did have his dog with him which he simply wanted to get home where he knew she would be comfortable. Is that asking a lot from a 20 year experienced Sergeant named Greg Bell? This is not a rookie cop who possibly could be excused for a lack of better judgment. This is a decorated Sergeant who abused his discretion in a big way! He should be held accountable by Chief David Dial if the Chief cares to continue to have the respect of the community.

For a police department to lose the respect of the entire community over an incident like this, is beyond comprehension. Chief Dial needs to take a few pointers from former Chief Teal who went after cops when they were wrong whether they worked for his department or another department. He was a just and fair man! So far all we have seen from Chief Dial is a desire to protect his officers at any cost. He is destroying the reputation of our entire fine police force possibly by protecting 5 rouge cops on the department instead of disciplining them. He is destroying citizen-police relations with his constant inaction!

I do think it would serve this community well for Host Ted and Moderator Jim to have a conversation with Chief Dial. It does not have to be about the Napergate Man but in general why he feels it is necessary to protect any cop who does wrong to a civilian!

Chief David Dial is only involved here because his inaction got him involved! A simple apology to the Napergate Man may have been appropriate at one time. It may be too late for that apology! I believe he had no intention of suing. But since the bloggers pretty much made his case for him, I would not be surprised if he sued.

He has nothing to lose! It is a civil rights violation that attorneys take on contingency! It won't cost him a penny whether he loses or wins! Based on the facts of the case, he could never be accused of bring a frivolous suit. Plus there is a long history of both City Officials and City Police harassing the Napergate Man that has been proven in courts of law!

If I were him, I would roll the dice and see what happens. He simply has absolutely nothing to lose!


I believe you TED. Keep up the great work at the Naperville Sun and if there is an issue, I know you will cover it fair and objectively. The majority of Naperville understands this as being a smear compaign. Again, great work and continued success.

John Q. Public,
Your latest post was impressive. You showed me after playing Devil's Advocate, you are willing to come to some reasonable conlusions that make sense.

I commend you for your well laid out thoughts and I think with bloggers like you who are intelligent and using their brain power, we will get to the bottom of this latest Naperate Mess!

I am hoping Host Ted will follow suit shortly and start being reasonable!

Response from Ted:

Norma, I said the exact same thing as JQP months ago, that it seemed Basim Esmail was treated unfairly, it seemed discretion was abused in that instance. I also said nothing indicates the initial traffic stop was illegal, or that this one instance means there is widespread abuse of discretion for which the chief should resign. We're all just repeating ourselves here.

Host Ted,
It seems "Confused in Naperville" made some well laid arguments. To simply ignore him and says he is "confused" seems like a cop-out on your part.

For example, I believe most residents would feel having Chief David Dial as a columnist(paid or unpaid) in your newspaper is a MAJOR CONFLICT of INTEREST. Don't you think it is hard to play Watch Dog on a police dept. controlled by a columnist of YOUR newspaper. That really is a no brainer. How can you guys sleep at night with these Conflicts of Interest? Do you guys not have an attorney advising staff? Apparently not! And even if it is not a conflict of interest do you really want the APPEARANCE that it is looming with your daily readers and bloggers! Think about it and respond to me tomorrow after you discuss it with Moderator Jim and others at the Naperville Sun. I find your knee jerk instant responses of denial unacceptable. I would like to hear from Moderator Jim on this very serious conflict of interest!

I think it would be very wise for starters to terminate Chief David Dial from writing for your newspaper. It would bring you substantial respect from 150,000 residents that you are seriously lacking in the Naperville Sun. Stop being so stubborn at the Sun and take some steps to make some changes and bring some improvements. All we have seen on these blogs is that Host Ted is an "EDITOR IN DENIAL."

Ignoring these comments repeatedly paints a serious picture of something is wrong and that the Sun in in an indefensible position as CIN indicated. You wanted the pulse of the commmuity. You are getting it! You and Moderator Jim appear to have been surprised by the pulse of the community and seem to wish you would have never started these powerful and enlightening BLOGS! Regreting what you started will not help! Deal with the can of worms you opened up and address it! Fix it! It is that simple!

Response from Ted:

We have no regrets for starting the blogs. And I don't see a conflict in us providing an opportunity for Chief Dial to communicate with the public. something a lot of people here seem to be clamoring for.

Mr. Host Ted,
I finally located this thread to catch up on my reading. I was a little surprised people were still bloggin while it was archived. I noticed if you use the links on the front page of the Naperville they either lead you to the Main Page or 2 different sets of old blogs that do not include the Napergate Thread. Most of these older threads being promoted had no activity for nearly a month. This one that bloggers are very interested in is not being promoted and you must take 4 steps(links) to reach it. It sounds like you are trying to discourage bloggers even though the Napergate Threads are the second hottest blogs on a consistent basis after District 204 which is always the busiest in posts but not in number of bloggers.

Some guy named Anonymous just keeps bloggin day and night on District 204. While I was catching up there too, I noticed Moderator Jim advised him to choose a name. He refused and continues bloggin 20-50 times a day under Anonymous. It just makes that thread look bad. I concur with the Moderator on that issue. I would ban him until he picks any name other than anonymous. President or Donkey are both fine...but order him to pick something!

Which brings me to the anyonmous guy who posted here at 7:09pm on this thread. I wish you could follow Jim's lead and ask him to use a name. Once, more than one person does not use a name, confusion develops with multi Anonymous bloggers. And this other guy who is using taxpayer's name, should not be allowed to use the same name that DF's no. 1 fan chose! In my opinion that causes much confusion. I do not know why you allow that. Some people may be confused and think taxpayer just changed his position or tune on things.

REGARDING MY LASTEST THOUGHTS:

* Anonymous of the Napergate Thread can not differentiate between being found guilty and abuse of discretion. The Napergate Man was found guilty on behalf of his employees but the City of Naperville was still found to abuse its discretion by disobeying the recommendation of former Police Chief James Teal who seemed to have offered a reasonable compromise. When the former Mayor Margaret "Hatchet" Price went for the jugular by abusing her discretion the Supreme Court of Illinois let her have it with a 9-0 ruling as I understand it.

* The Napergate Man went to court like a MAN and took responsibility for what his daughter did. He pled guilty and paid his fine(really hers). He is a MAN! Maybe that is why people respect him. When was the last time our current Chief took responsibility for any wrong doings of his cops. NEVER! That is why he is not respected in town. He passes the puck to thru his "spokespersons" to dead Mayor McCrane's coffin so no one can be held accountable. This is really sad and the Naperville Sun let's him get away with his responsibilities. I am assuming former Mayor Price is still alive and she will be protected by the Naperville Sun until she passes away. At that point her name will be tarnished just like former Mayor Macrane's name.

* I am not saying former and deceased Mayor McCrane is not guilty. But the Napergate Man was a MAN and took him on while he was alive and able to defend himself. He let him have it while he was alive like a MAN. He took him on when he could defend himself. He used every name in the Webster Dictionary to attack him but he made sure he was alive giving him an opportunity to defend himself.

* I see Host Ted failed in the defense of the City and instead of accepting defeat like a MAN, he made a mockery of his loss. He also poked fun of this latest case which is a very serious case of abuse of discretion. All the facts and time lines support it is a major case of abuse of discretion.

* Host Ted is pro the Naperville Police. He has a right to be that way. He is being fair in letting bloggers blast him in a way I have never seen anywhere in my life. Kudos to Mr. Ted for showing bravery even though he was not a MAN in defeat.

* Moderator Jim should have more than one host, hosting the Napergate Thread. Host Ted is an excellent pro city guy. But Moderator Jim can make this debate fair by allowing a pro Napergate Sun reporter or editor, host this blog for half the time to stir the debate in favor of the Napergatians. If you watch CNN or Fox when they debates issues they have commentators from both sides of the aisles grilling the guests who are usually from opposing sides with differing views.

* The reason Host Ted has not been able to convince one person out of 200 people bloggin on this site in support of the Napergate Man to change their mind, is simple! The city of Naperville Police were obviously wrong in being so harsh on the Napergate Man over a technical suspension they knew he knew nothing about and also knew was not due to his actions.

* While the Napergate Man was a MAN and went to court and owned up to what his daughter did without his knowledge, Sgt. Greg Bell was a wimp. A wimp of wimps to abuse his discretion in that manner.

* Even if he did not know this was the Napergate Man which is highly doubtful, is this how you treat a peaceful citizen walking his dog with a friend on the Riverwalk? This guy was calm and polite. He not only asked his friend not to say a word, he ORDERED him not to say a WORD. This is exactly what police like to see from friends in such a situation. What was the reward for showing all this respect to Sgt. Greg Bell and his supporting officers. No return respect! This is a Sgt. who needs his head examined. Seriously Ted! What don't you get about this case Host Ted? If you don't get anything that is going on here, I would like to see Moderator Jim assign this case to an assistant editor at least half time to see if they can comprehend what you are not comprehending. It would become less boring! You are not open to other people's opinion like a Larry King. You should be trying to be a Larry King in your role as Host and not a defense attorney for the city. You would have a lot more respect!

* Host Ted, do you realize if you were sitting on a jury deciding this case, the best you could do is torpedo it into a hung jury. That assumes your fellow jurors have not already asked the Judge to throw you off since they would have detected that you are closed minded trying to make a mockery of the case because you can not express any views that people find acceptable. If a jury of 12 was chose from the 205 to 210 bloggers, it is unlikely you will get another pro city blogger from the 5-10 on the jury with you. Let us face it Host Ted, the police have no chance of winning this case before any jury of his peers.

* I think you are working for the city in an obvious way. Your numerous attempts to call out the Napergate Man have failed. You are just hoping to get him to make a statement to the press that can be than used against him in a court of law. If you were a little older at the time of the Napergate ads and you read his ads, you would realize he is too brilliant to fall in the trap you are setting up for him.

* I don't blame you for attempting to set up a trap for him. You set one up for DF and his attorney, Shawn Collins and they both fell for your trap and you succeeded. But this is the Napergate Man and he is a MAN not known for falling into traps. Drew Peterson and his Attorney also fell in a similar trap with the media. They both needed their 15 minutes of fame and possibly some media cash and took the bait. I hope DP can spend that cash before his mouth puts him in jail.

* This latest incident to the Napergate Man is disturbing because it is yet another of many improprieties taken against this MAN. Since he is refusing to talk, I wonder how many other violations the city police committed against him that we don't know about.

* I think the reason this whole mess did not escalate to the print media and elsewhere is because of the mutual respect of the Napergate Man and Mayor George Pradel have for each other. The Naperville Sun is not going to succeed in causing friction between these 2 MEN! They both know the Naperville Sun is trying to stir trouble.

* If the Naperville Sun wants to interview the parties, one of the parties works for them in the form of Chief David Dial. Why don't they interview him and put him on the record? He is available. He must come in to submit his columns every 2 weeks. Maybe he writes them in his office in the Sun Buildings! I don't know but writing a column for the Naperville Sun sure looks like a major conflict of interest to the bloggers and readers of the Sun. Is he a paid columnist or a free lance columnist? And top it with Host Ted deciding to defend the Police Chief and his department. And guess what we get....the OLD NAPERVILLE SUN!

* Wow! You guys really want us to believe you guys are a Watch Dog newspaper. That is laughable! Who is going to believe that?
Let me throw some of Host Ted's words right back at him:

"The only nerve struck on me is my funny bone. As in, I find it amusing that here we are trying (to believe that the Naperville Sun can be a watchdog newspaper....inserted by CIN). That's what this reminds me of. I'm very amused and entertained."

PEOPLE WOULD RESPECT YOU GUYS MORE IF YOU WOULD JUST COME OUT OF THE CLOSET AND SAY:

1. We believe City Officials can do no wrong and when they do wrong we will support them and pretend it did not happen.

2. We believe City Police can do no wrong and when they do wrong we will support them and pretend it did not happen.

3. We believer Park District Police can do no wrong and when the do wrong we will support them and pretend it did not happen.


It is not very well known on these blogs but it was mentioned once or twice that a Park District Police Officer was the Judge in the Kangaroo Trial of the 90s that railroaded the Napergate Man. Yes, it was a conspiracy between City Officials, City Police, and Park Police to orchestrate a framing and railroading.

And what does the Naperville Sun have to say. We are sorry we were not there to cover the lynching. We should have been there.
But that was the old Naperville Sun and not the new Naperville Sun.

Sorry Host Ted and Moderator Jim, but the "new" Naperville Sun is still the "old" Naperville Sun. If you read the comments especially of Host Ted carefully, you realize that the old Naperville Sun is back as strong as ever. Host Ted can only go about 24 hours being neutral. After that he returns to his old stripes. He loves his old stripes which are identical to the old strips of the Naperville Sun. Why is anyone surprised your circulation plumetted with the ceasing of the Napergate ads? That is the only reason I bought the paper. Anyone would choose the Naperville Sun at the time despite a massive campaign by the Daily Herald to penetrate the Naperville market in that era. They had no chance to dislodge you guys from the Kingdom of Naperville because you had those Napergate ads and they did not! That was the huge difference in your success over them. Otherwise you were about equal! If the Napergate Man his Napergate Ads in the Daily Herald you would be number 2 chasing them instead of vice versa.

Don't even try to argue my opinion, Host Ted, because no one will believe you. The facts are so overwhelming that you are in bed with City Officials and City Police that if you deny those facts you will lose and a funny bone will make us all laugh.

I think it is time the City of Naperville hired you to be the Public Relations guy for the city. When they hired that gal from the Sun, they made a huge mistake! You are 10 times as good as her for Public Relations. But even you would fail, because it is very hard to defend INDEFENSIBLE POSITIONS!

I hope my lengthy commentary lands you a job with your buddies in City Hall. I hope they double your salary. I hope they double your benefits! And if that happens I hope Moderator Jim can bring us a Larry King type of guy who will run this new Blogging Site with so much potential to contribute to defining the future of our town. Someone who truly cares about his bloggers, the number of bloggers, the quality of posts, and the number of views. Host Ted is involved in an orchestrated campaign to shut the Napergatians down by acrhiving them as quickly as possible while promoting so many dead threads that have not received a hit in a month on his internet Sun Home Page(not Main Page).

Host Ted has reached a point where he is putting City interests ahead of Newspaper interests. He would rather keep the number of bloggers holding the city accountable to a minimum even if the blogging numbers and views of the Sun Blog Site are not maximized. I believe at some point the Chicago Sun-Times ownership will notice this bias and give Host Ted the death warrant he once asked for on a prior thread!


Response from Ted:

Dear Confused in Naperville, you certainly are living up to your name.

Bellen,

You have obviously never listened in on the radio chatter. Assume what you want about how fast it is or how slow someone types but the fact is you haven't listen in and I have. One of us knows what we are talking about. The turn around time on plate checks when the systems are working is a few seconds. They have a female dispatcher who is very fast, enunciates very clearly and is one of the better ones I've heard in the 30 years I've been 'scanning' as a hobby.

I appreciate that even your 'perfect world' 30 seconds undercuts Adam's claim of 'at least 55 seconds'. Even though, most don't take 30 seconds. Like I said, local runs (in their DB) is very fast. Out of state runs and sometimes other municipality runs can take more time. Since there was a prior history w/ this vehicle owner I would imagine the local information was returned to their terminal in 5 seconds or less. It's an indexed relational DB query. They are usually times in milliseconds on a computer, but in the human world we have to quantify it in seconds.

I find it humorous how people make up facts about things they obviously know nothing about or have no experience with and then use those 'facts' to make other leap of faith conclusions and string together a 'story line' filled with emotional paranoia delusions about how all of these agencies are all out to 'get' a guy who lives in Naperville.

Turn around on that info can come back in less than half the time you specify even with the verbiage. If they did a multi-agency query, yes it would take longer (I already said that). Usually they kick back out what's local while the other queries run and await responses from the other systems. I've heard info being given about prior by NPD and them say "Still waiting on {insert_name_of_state}" or other systems. Just now on the radio was a history about someone's drug offenses out of Kane County, again a very fast turnaround.

But since I'm bored while waiting for a video to transfer off the camera so I can start editing it, I'll go through this silly 'Dick Tracy' timeline/point attempt for you that you posted

YOU: But Joe let us be reasonable for a moment.

I agree.. Let's.

YOU:1.It must take 5-10 seconds alone to enter the data in the police computer or recite it over the phone.

Most rattle it off in 5 seconds and it's being typed on the other side while they speak it. It's rattled fast and often repeated 1 time. If there's a question about it, it's clarified.


YOU: 2.The officer was driving so it would take much longer as he has to keep his eye on the road and stop signs and could only enter one digit at at time without crashing into something. Have you ever tried to text message while driving, Joe? It is no pleasant experience and it is dangerous!

They have laptops and automatic transmission cars. They can sit at a stop sign and use 5 fingers on their hand. They are not using blackberry devices that require 2 thumbs. If they are doing it via voice, they are reading it off into their radio. Little crash risk talking out loud and no crash risk typing while stopped behind the vehicle while someone in there counts to 3 very slowly.

YOU: 3.If he needed 5 to 10 seconds to read the plate to the dispatcher, have her enter it and retrieve it in 10 seconds, and get back to him and give him the date in at least another 5-10 seconds, we would be talking 30 seconds.

5 to read twice. Really, you should quit being a cheapskate and go buy yourself a radio so you can hear it for yourself. A good dispatcher types while being talked to so the second 'read' for the confirm is just customary and a good dispatcher already hit the enter key before the officer reads it back the second time. Here's a call right now.. I'll time it (male dispatcher tonight)... 3 seconds, from the officer reading two tags to the "Available" status back from the dispatcher. ran 2 tags: First one came back owned to someone from Bolingbrook... #2 vehicle came back to someone from Linwood.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how fast or slow these systems are.


YOU: 4. This 30 seconds assumes a perfect world. Do you think an emergency dispathcer is going to drop emergency calls to check on JFK here? The dispatcher may be talking to another police officer and he may have to wait his turn.

May... but the officer would be able to hear that. If they used this ability from their laptop in the car there would be no wait. Which way did they do it that night, since you think you know so much about how this is done and how long it takes to run a plate and get a DL status.. ?

YOU: 5. And Joe even if it could be done in 30 seconds, do you think cops can get in their cars, turn them on, put their seat belts on, blow off 3 stops signs, and get there in 20-25 seconds. Not possible! Why would they dare to speed in a case like this and endanger all these patrons coming out of the bars most likely wobbling! Would Chief Dial allow the endangerment of so many bar patrons just to get this Napergate Man for a toll violation of his daughter? Give your Chief some credit, Joe! You are insulting him with your statments or description of how it may have gone down.

You're just making crap up now and you know it. It was already said that there were multiple units behind them. Some have assumed they were waiting to spring the conspiratorial trap, others put forth the possibility that they were just fanning out over downtown to get ready to watch for DUIs and get those dangers off the roads when the bars started letting out. Doesn't matter why they were behind him, but they were. Your hypothetical about jumping into a car to rush up to Jefferson and Main (and blowing 3 stop signs) for a traffic stop is simply dumb and counter to the events Bob already said happened.

YOU: 6.You want us to believe that cops would be flying to get the Napergate Man on .40 cent violations and endangering civilian life for a non-emergency. Not likely, the fine NPD would rush to the scene of a man who was just found to have driven on a suspended license based on a toll violation. How ludicrous! Honestly! Give me a break here, Joe! You are dead wrong!

No, Bob already said they were behind them the whole way.

I'm taking Bob's account at face value and accepting as fact that the units were behind them the whole way.

Are you now saying Bob is a liar in his account of what happened that night?

If you are, you better put on the fire suit because I am going to laugh as you get flamed for calling a Napergatian a liar by giving a different account of events that are contrary to what he said he saw. Being that he was actually WITH the NG man that night and you probably were not I am going to assume that it happened as Bob said, that the units were following the H2 from Chicago avenue and it did not happen the way you speculate above that they all jumped into their cars to blow stop signs to rush up to Jefferson/Main to pull the H2 over.


The fact is no one on here knows when the plate was run. I'm guessing it was run while it was parked because it's a good idea to run them while things are stationary and if something comes back being registered to someone who has warrants out for things like robbery, etc it's good to pick them up and get them off the street. It doesn't matter when it was run. You may think it does, but it doesn't. It's state property, there is no 'search' of a person's property because the tag is displayed in plain view (by law) and they are only referencing the data at the police department that they have at their disposal (databases). But, even I admit I am only guessing when. The fact is that it doesn't matter. It was run, he was caught driving w/ a suspended license, was subsequently arrested and paid whatever penalty there was to pay for that deed and moved on with his life.

It's too bad others have not.

"People like T.B. and John Q. Public conveniently forget that the Napergate Man won a case of abuse of discretion. Let me remind them and spell it out for them."

Susan, you don't need to spell it out for me because it is largely irrelevant to this case. The NGM WAS guilty in this case. If he were to go to trial, his case would have to be that, even given his culpability, he was singled out for abusive treatment because of his history with the city and the PD. His attourney would then certainly bring up these past cases, but he'd either need to connect Sgt. Bell to those past cases OR he would need to show that Sgt. Bell was doing the bidding of someone who was connected with those cases. He would hard evidence of a kind that no one has presented here yet. Hearsay and references to a wink and a nod won't cut it. If he argues that the arrest report was doctored, for example, he'll have to produce the original and/or present an eye-witness.

In my posts on this board so far I have largely attempted to play devil's advocate, but I will say this: it does sound like Sgt. Bell's fit of temper was not called for. And I CAN be convinced that the NGM could have and should have been let go that night. But the fact that he was arrested could just mean that one cop didn't like it when the NGM mentioned Chief Dial and/or that he was in a bad mood and/or that he's just a jerk who likes being a cop because he enjoys the sense of authority it gives him over civilians.

One more thing, if it's true that the NGM did not receive notice from the Tollway Authority of his license suspension until AFTER his arrest, then that bothers me at least as much as any of the allegations made against the NPD. There certainly should be more due process (and notice!) required by the authorities before such a drastic measure is take. I'd hate to think that any one of us otherwise law-abiding citizens could be unwittingly driving around town illegally. Ted, maybe the Sun should explore THAT angle of this story.

JQP:

Our competitors the Daily Herald recently did an expose on the tollway authority, how for two years the notices didn't go out, or something like that. It was outsourced, you'll recall, and the company that got contract didn't send any missed toll notices out, though I forget why.

"Over 10 people blogged they were not hand cuffed and jailed for these same offenses. You must not read Ted's Threads!"

You got me there, Maryann. I don't read every post, mostly because so many of them are long on emotion and speculation, and short on sober reasoning. Please list a few of the posts (names, dates and times) in which people have said this, and I will retract my statement---though the fact that QQ WAS handcuffed and hauled off to the station certainly gives credence to the idea that cops DO have that option.

Sorry Lillian, he arrested someone driving with their license suspended, he did his job. Stop the knee-jerk reactions, (someone once used that cleaver quote after they read it in the Sun's opinion section)

Lillian, what happened in court with this arrest? I dont know, was he found guilty?


Mr. Taxpayer,

If you would admit that your Sgt. Buddy abused his discretion in this particular case, you would have more credibility.

You don't want your buddy judged by one or two mistakes...understandable!

But why did his d*mn police dept. judge the Napergate Man by a few mistakes his employees made and revoke his liquor license 2 times despite winning a National Award for his efforts against minors and confiscated a 1000 IDs to help your buddy SGT. get drunks and minors off the streets of Naperville and protect the residents.

You sould like a hypocrit who does not get how the world works. Double standards are not acceptable! And now we find out your buddy worked for this dept for 20 years and was a coward. He watched the Kangaroo Trial in 1993-1995 and witnessed an innocent man being lynched and he did nothing. That is a coward of the nth degree. Don't tell us he was a hero! He was a coward!

A hero is former Police Chief Jim Teal who fights for the innocent and goes against his fellow police men when they are wrong. Does not practice the blue code of ethics!!!

Your Sgt. buddy is the mother of all cowards of in my book!

I have yet to hear evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that the NPD commonly uses its discretion NOT to arrest and handcuff other people when caught driving on a suspended license, and that the Napergate Man was singled out for special treatment in this regard.

Posted by: John Q. Public | March 8, 2008 06:18 PM


Over 10 people blogged they were not hand cuffed and jailed for these same offenses. You must not read Ted's Threads!

Wow, I sure hope all of you are judged this hard in whatever you do.

Pretty shameful.

Posted by: Taxpayer | March 8, 2008 05:23 PM

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What is pretty shameful is that your cop buddy judged the Napergate Man in the hardest and harshest way imaginable. He threw the book at him and gave him the worse treatment possible. How very shameful!

Taxpayer,
What is shameful is that your Sergeant friend has not apologized.

If he would apologize he will be remembered for the serial rapist killer he arrested.

If he does not aplogize he will be remembered for abusing a Naperville Hero.

It is his decision. Napervillians and Napergatians are very forgiving people.

But hiding from your mistakes is considered shameful and cowardly in our town.

Sgt. Greg Bell is a coward until he steps up and apologizes. Once he apologizes I will consider his full record before judging him again.

"This is not an isolated misdemeanor incident. Don't you see the long pattern in this Napergate Saga? If it was isolated why did they revoke 2 liquor licenses and deny a 3rd all WRONGFULLY!

"The Napergate Man was most probably given the harshest treatment also in his emission and toll suspensions by being hand cufffed and jailed as opposed to being booked voluntarily and released.

"Do you see no PATTERN at all Host Ted!"

The problem with your argument is that no one denies the Napergate Man was GUILTY of the two driving offenses---not even the Napergate Man, apparently. As far as his treatment by the police, somebody needs to present evidence that this treatment was out of the ordinary for someone driving on a suspended license. Quick Question has already told of being handcuffed and taken to the police station for a similar infraction. I have yet to hear evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that the NPD commonly uses its discretion NOT to arrest and handcuff other people when caught driving on a suspended license, and that the Napergate Man was singled out for special treatment in this regard.

Mr. Ted,
You state this is really amusing and entertaining while striking funny bones. A day earlier you give out your e-mail address and phone number and ask anyone who knows Basim to have him call you in what I interpreted as a sincere and serious request!

I think you know the Napergate Man is a serious man. If you think this is all amusing, entertaining, and striking funny bones do you really think he would ever consider calling you! I don't think so!

If you read the posts on your site again for the last 2 days, you will see this is a serious case because of a long pattern of abuse against the Napergate Man that the bloggers are exposing to you but you are trying to deliberately ignore.

It just seems so hard that you are trying to defend a city that refuses to defend itself because they know they are guilty and anything they say will be used against them in a court of law.

I think what we need to find out now, is if the statute of limitaions expired on this case or not. If the statute of limitations expires in a year, than this case is over.

If the statute is 2 years or more than much of the silence by both the Napergate Man and the City of Naperville is very explainable. Maybe you can ask the attorny of the Sun what the statute of limitations in a Civil Rights Case is and we can have a better understanding where to go next in our citizen journalism.

But I think Host Ted, you need to take this case seriously. It is really not a laughable matter. It sounds like you and your buddies were drinking before arriving to that train station and may have crossed the line in the perception of police. When you drink, your judgment is impaired. You probably don't know exactly what happened the night you were thrown in the slammer for 4 hours without your belt and shoe laces.

The Napergate Mad and Bob were very sober taking a peaceful walk with a little lovely white dog that was on a LEASH. What could they have been doing to necessitate this rough treatment of handcuffing, separation, jailing, cash bonding in addition to the routine booking and fingerprinting while only needing an I-Bond! This is really the perfect case to exercise discretion in the right direction. We all know that Sgt. Greg Bell exercised his discretion in an abusive manner. And we all know while a cop is allow discretion he is not allowed to abuse it.

People like T.B. and John Q. Public conveniently forget that the Napergate Man won a case of abuse of discretion. Let me remind them and spell it out for them.

In the first case Randy reported that former Police Chief James Teal tried to negotiate a deal of a 3 day suspension between the Napergate Man and former Mayor Margaret Price for 2 sales to a minor by a former employee. She had wide powers of discretion. She chose to abuse her discretion and revoke the Napergate Man's liquor license. The Supreme Court ruled by a 9-0 that the discretion that was empowerered in the former Mayor was abused. She abused it! Why is this so hard to comprehend. Former Mayor Samuel McCrane learned nothing and pulled the same stunt of abusing discretion in revoking his license. He gave the Napergate Man that pattern to show discrimination and conspiracy. This time he took it to Federal and State and won in both! It never went to the Supreme Court in either of the latter cases as the city surrendered and raised the white flag!

I don't have all my time lines down to perfection. But I suspect Mayor George Pradel was elected into office sometime between these defeats in the Appellant Courts and the decision to go to 2 Supreme Courts at great expense to the taxpayer.

I am willing to bet he stopped all this craziness and nonsense going on in town at the time. I am sure there is a good reason why the Napergate Man adores Mayor George Pradel. Besides treating him fairly while he has been Mayor, I do believe if the timing checks out we will find Mayor Pradel was the brave man who got the City Council to smell the coffee and stop this charade against the Napergate Man in the court system.

Maybe we do have a rotten Police Chief running this town. But everyone in town both Napervillian and Napergatian agree we have a great Mayor running this town. There is no dispute that Mayor George Pradel is a great Mayor loved and adored by ALL!

Response from Ted:

I've given up trying to deconstruct the flawed logic and speculation that has gotten us to the point where because a few people say there is a conspiracy to harass Basim Esmail, it must be true. Reason doesn't seem to work. Maybe humor is the way to go.

Hi Ted,
I have been missing in action but I am back. Boy, you have to navigate to find a thread once it is off the Main Page. We are becoming familiar with your threads gradually. But at least the thread slows down a bit and posts are more noticeble and it is easier to keep up.

On subject again. Based on what I read yesterday and today, it would have been literally impossible for all this to happen unless the NPD checked his license plate while the H2 was parked and had a plan in place.

I really believe what Adam did was very important. I am glad he did it! I am surprised no one else thought of that in the last 2 months. He put the nails in the coffin for us!

They could have never discovered the suspension in those 50 seconds of driving and had 3 police cars right where they stopped him behind Potter's, unless they were following from the get go. Time and distance make it impossible! Sometimes Joe needs to accept that some things are impossible!

Sgt. Greg Bell's friend needs to step up to the plate and tell us why his friend decided to run this H2 Hummer plate. He needs to step up to the plate and tell us if he or the other cops knew the Napergate Man! He also needs to be careful as there are nearly a 1000 police reports documenting IDs handed to Naperville Police in person! Anyone of these reports could nail his friend(or the other 11 cops on that intersection) if he were to lie and state, I never heard or even know of the Napergate Man!

I suspect he knew him very well and felt like being mean that day!
That is my conclusion!

Its been fun Ted, thanks for the entertainment and like you I cant believe these people.

Imagine being a cop in this town and making thousands of arrest, putting away a serial rapist killer and then a group that call themselves Napergatians, questioned your judgement because one arrest you made in a twenty plus year career.

Wow, I sure hope all of you are judged this hard in whatever you do.

Pretty shameful.


Response from Ted:

The only nerve struck on me is my funny bone. As in, I find it amusing that here we are, 18 months after a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license, painstakingly analyzing every detail as if it were a major crime. That's what this reminds me of. I'm very amused and entertained.

Posted by: Beilen | March 8, 2008 03:53 PM

Host Ted,
There really is nothing amusing about this. Your print edition quoted a blogger stating that City Officials will not relax until the Napergate Man was out of the City Limits!

This is not an isolated misdemeanor incident. Don't you see the long pattern in this Napergate Saga? If it was isolated why did they revoke 2 liquor licenses and deny a 3rd all WRONGFULLY! Does this not show you that your print edition run by Moderator Jim did not put that quote in unless Jim felt it had some substance?

The Napergate Man was most probably given the harshest treatment also in his emission and toll suspensions by being hand cufffed and jailed as opposed to being booked voluntarily and released.

Do you see no PATTERN at all Host Ted!

I think your 200 Citizen Journalists on this thread want the City of Naperville to know we are watching them carefully and it won't be so easy to relocate the Napergate Man out of town just because of his political views and his ability to run slates and get them elected. The Establishment considers the Napergate Man a threat to its DICTARTORSHIP that they want to hold on, rain or shine!

That is what this case is about! It really is not funny and should not be tickling any funny bones. It should be striking a real and serious nerve with you!

Joe,
Honestly Joe, you make no sense! You are trying to paint the impossible scenario again. You claim cops spread out but than you have them all going up Main Street following each other before they spread out. Why would one cop car not be going up Washington if they wanted to head north as it is 20 feet east of where they are stationed. Why take a longer path north? Why not have another cop head south on Washington? Another one head east on Chicago Ave! Another one make a left on Main instead of a right and head to Aurora Ave. Common Joe!

All 3 police cars decided to head west on Chicago Ave and all make a right turn on Main and just by conincidence they were right behind a Hummer H2 and thru some freak of nature they just happen to discover he has a suspended license in those 50 seconds and by coincidence again 3 cars are following an H2 with a suspended license. Has anyone ever seen 3 cop cars following each other unless they were on a call or a mission already? They just don't do that, Joe! They spread out to protect the town just like you initially said before you returned to put your foot in your mouth after McFarland called you out! Keep that foot in your mouth as it belongs there!

I don't even think your defense attorney Host Ted, would let you make such a stupid statement in a court of law.

Bob posted with no agenda! He posted not knowing where these facts would lead to. He did not know Adam was going to check his path? Your attorney Host Ted already called Bob credible. Again Bob said he saw up to 3 police cars already tailing them as soon as they pulled off from next to Jimmy's and before they got to the first stop sign on Chicago and Main! All the cop cars made that right turn to continue to follow. That first right turn from where they were parked was about 5 seconds. This really proves beyond a reasonable doubt the license was ran while he was parked in a "selective and illegal manner."

I am now hoping the Napergate Man files suit just so he can show Joe and Host Ted how wrong they are and how easy he can prove his case. Host Ted has been hinting he wishes the Napergate Man would file suit. But as soon as the Napergate Man files suit, I suspect Ted will accuse him of trying to take the taxpayers money away as the Sun has implied in the DF case.

So the Sun leaves most people between a rock and a hard place. If they don't sue, they challegne them to sue if they have a case! If they have a case and sue they make them look bad for suing!

I am sure people challenged the Napergate Man to sue in the past as they are now. He obviously took up the challeges! All his victories in the higher courts were unanimous except the one Joe uncovered that was only a 2-1 ruling in Federal Court. Civil Rights Law is complex and not easy to prove. But at least he got 2 Judges to see eye to eye with him and in the end that is all he needed.

My guess is Joe was fighting the Napergate Man in those times under his real identity. In order to have a clean slate he came on these blogs acting like he never heard of Napergate and under a new identity. Who really could believe a guy like Joe, who has got his hands in everything would not know about NAPERGATE in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s. I guess it is possible Joe is the college kid accusing all his fellow bloggers of being college kids who are immature and rebellious. I don't think so Joe! I think you are in denial and rebellious against anyone one who wants to bring some change to our wonderful City of Naperville.

I am sorry Joe, but I believe 5 seconds is a bit of an exaggeration. I once asked a cop why it took him so long to stop me and he simply stated that he was not trying to get me on anything other than rolling thru a stop sign, but was waiting for the info to come back. He stopped me over a mile later and I thought he was trying to get me to speed by tailing me for so long and I was a little upset.

But Joe let us be reasonable for a moment.

1.It must take 5-10 seconds alone to enter the data in the police computer or recite it over the phone.

2.The officer was driving so it would take much longer as he has to keep his eye on the road and stop signs and could only enter one digit at at time without crashing into something. Have you ever tried to text message while driving, Joe? It is no pleasant experience and it is dangerous!

3.If he needed 5 to 10 seconds to read the plate to the dispatcher, have her enter it and retrieve it in 10 seconds, and get back to him and give him the date in at least another 5-10 seconds, we would be talking 30 seconds.

4. This 30 seconds assumes a perfect world. Do you think an emergency dispathcer is going to drop emergency calls to check on JFK here? The dispatcher may be talking to another police officer and he may have to wait his turn.

5. And Joe even if it could be done in 30 seconds, do you think cops can get in their cars, turn them on, put their seat belts on, blow off 3 stops signs, and get there in 20-25 seconds. Not possible! Why would they dare to speed in a case like this and endanger all these patrons coming out of the bars most likely wobbling! Would Chief Dial allow the endangerment of so many bar patrons just to get this Napergate Man for a toll violation of his daughter? Give your Chief some credit, Joe! You are insulting him with your statments or description of how it may have gone down.

6.You want us to believe that cops would be flying to get the Napergate Man on .40 cent violations and endangering civilian life for a non-emergency. Not likely, the fine NPD would rush to the scene of a man who was just found to have driven on a suspended license based on a toll violation. How ludicrous! Honestly! Give me a break here, Joe! You are dead wrong!

I am begining to think Mrs. of the Police Officer stopped posting because people like Joe have embarrassed her. Joe has brought shame to the Naperville police department with his lies and fabrications.

Let us hope Blogger Naperville Officer or another officer sheds some light on your 5 second perfect world scenario.

It seems to me Adam touched a nerve here. Both your nerve and Host Ted's nerve! I feel bad for Host Ted because he is fighting a losing battle and is getting no help from anyone. The police have not stepped in to help him and the few bloggers supporting the police have 0 analytical or argumentative skills. At least Host Ted is trying despite having nothing, absolutely nothing, from the other side to help him.

It is obvious to me how the Napergatians must have been instrumental in helping their leader defeat the City over and over again. They are organized, pay attention to details, and much more logical than the city supporters.

D. bone, Ted for President, and Anonymous sound like cartoon characters to me. I am really surprised Host Ted allows Cartoons on his blogs. Why doesn't any real person step up and help put up a defense if they believe the City is innocent? I won't because I believe the city is guilty as hell!

Response from Ted:

The only nerve struck on me is my funny bone. As in, I find it amusing that here we are, 18 months after a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license, painstakingly analyzing every detail as if it were a major crime. Anyone familiar with the Arlo Guthrie song "Alice's Restaurant," where he gets arrested for littering, and the police come out to take photos and the officer is presenting to the judge the 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the back of each one explaining what it was about. Not to mention the aerial photography. That's what this reminds me of. I'm very amused and entertained.

Liebert,

Someone's inability to be resourceful isn't my problem. What I provided works if they know where to look. If they don't, too bad.

McFarland:

"Joe's response is very evasive and even proves Adam's theroy. He states the police were just doing their normal "spread." Well a "spread" means they were scattering around. Thus they would not all have ended up right behind Ted's Montana Grill at the same exact time of 50-55 seconds after he pulled his H-2 out of the spot right next to where they station themselves in mid summer."

+++++++++++++++++++++++

If multiple units were going to head up Main street to take up observations positions on the W side of Washington up near Franklin, Benton or the Children's museum, they could all be traveling northbound at the same time on main and happen to be coincidentally behind someone's H2 that has a driver operating the vehicle while his license is suspended. That's not uncommon activity and it's not conspiratorial. During the course of events, either then and there or prior during a routine running of plates of parked vehicles it could have been noted that the vehicle is registered to a person who's DL is suspended. That is grounds for a stop. Sorry you feel otherwise, but it is. If car 1 is making a stop it would not be uncommon for other units right there already on scene to stop as well to provide backup support (a normal procedure that is not uncommon).

The fact that multiple units were on scene proves nothing of what you are trying to claim here. There are standard operating procedures that easily explain why they were there. Quit pulling things out of your backside.

Moderator Jim,

I am no longer a Naperville Resident. I use to build homes in Naperville under Lloyds but I gave up that business as it was too competitive. I am now a restaurant owner in Chicago and live in Chicago.

But I have friends and relatives in Naperville that I visit frequently. I touch base with Basim Esmail once or twice a year usually on the telephone. I have not seen him in over 3 years. I was tipped off about this blog by my friends and have followed it since my old friend became a topic of interest.

And even if I lived in Naperville, I do not have the talent that the Napergate Man has to pull off all he did in that town. I would never even try. I know my limits!

By the way, Moderator Jim, you guys are doing a very good job with this blog site. I appreciate your lack of censorship. It was not easy to get your opinion expressed in that town many years ago. I am sure that was one of the reasons Basim launched Napergate and it was a BIG HIT as your blogs are a BIG HIT!

Quick Question,
I beleive d. bone accused Todd of being Ameena. Todd was able to prove who he was and invited Host Ted and Moderator Jim to visit.

However d.bone the accuser came back on with some kind of Earned_every_dime_I_have nomenclature. The man or lady has a style like no other and did not even bother refuting the allegations made against him that he was using 2 names. I suspect he will appear as a 3rd person and maybe try to capitalize this time so he does not make it so easy for Napergatians to realize the establishment almost has no support on Ted's Threads.

So we only have one proven case so far. Unfortunately, that decreases the city supporters from 5 to 4. Sometimes you don't get what you wish for when you ask a quick question!

Some of the Napergate Man's supporters such as Ameena and friend Mike put their e-mails out to for correspondence. Others like Bob gave Ted his full name and e-mail address and told him to contact him anytime. Mr. Rod Randall and others have used their real full names. I give those people credit with all the crazies on here!

Joe could not provide a real name to Marilyn to prove who he was. Would not offer a middle initial or age so she can check on his police record. We are still looking for the first real person to emerge from the establishment side.

Many Napergatinas make very long posts that include details that they only know such as Randy stating he was in the Napergate Man's apartment while the Napergate Man and former Police Chief were writing an ad to help out the Nicarico 3. If such statements were not true, the former police chief's relatives would be all over Randy. I don't think he could name the Police Chief's Company and know his daughter's name who was the landscaper for the Napergate Man's plaza if all this was from a non-being.

The 1st few blogs on Napergate averaged only 30 people some repeat. Only when Host Ted notified Napervillians thru that front page edition on Napergate, that there was a blog site did we start seeing 250 or more and now 300 or more. I think Host Ted is running a very good thread that has grown gradually in front of our eyes. Ted's Threads are becoming to big for any one group of people to manipulate.

And I feel almost everyone except a few people posting want their 15 minutes of attention and fame. Joe is very proud to be Joe. T.B. is very proud to be T.B. Ameena was very pround to be Ameena before she left us to write a book. She won as best blogger. Now why would she want to give credit to other people for the work she does and not be voted best blogger. Believe me that girl took pride in her work. Just ask Host Ted!

And do you think that Maryann girl does not take pride in her work and giving Host Ted a hard time. She has been giving Host Ted a hard time since that Warrior Thread failed. I have not seen her changer her name. She wants Host Ted to know who she is and that she is in his face. I commend Ted for printing all the negatives she says about him, but that is why we love this blog. It is honest and open!

Napergatians are activists! The people running the town are in power and comfortable. They don't need to be activists or want to be activists. They like the status quo! I think Host Ted knows what would happen if he ran a few more Napergate stories. He will have a site with 1000 bloggers that he would not be able to control. He would never get any sleep. So I think he is being very smart not running any more Napergate stories and letting this Napergate Thread or the next one get completely out of control. I can see his computer crashing if he lets this Napergate Thread continuing to grow as it has in the last 3 months.

Napergate is about many many things. That is why the interest. Many people think the town is still corrupt. So Napergate is just another word for corruption in Naperville. Napergate reminds people of the need for grass roots movements and reminds them it is not easy to start a grass roots movement without strong effort and organization. There are 4 City Council members sitting on the council who have strong Napergate Connections or worked with the Napergate Man. The Napergate Party is the unofficial party opposing the unofficial Establishment Party in elections as local elections are not based on the Democratic or Republican parties.

I think the Napergate Man got things going. I really believe after 20 years he is tired and wanted to retire from politics. Didn't the Green Bay Packer quarterback retire the other day after 17 years. People get tired! Why is that so hard to understand? I am sure as Green Bay Packers fans will not accept the retirement of their quarterback, Napergatians are not thrilled with the retirement of the Napergate Man especially with no successor in sight!

I think the problem with the Napergatians is no new leader is emerging. The natural leader to replace him was Donna Rogers from his subdivision. But she left town. Richard Strawbridge, also from his subdivison, could have been another leader to replace the Napergate Man but he is either President or Vice President of the Naperville Homeowner's Association. Another great leader who could have filled his shoes if he would have been retired by now instead of deceased could have been Commander Dan Shanower who was very close to the Napergate Man for 3 years while working for him before he went to the Pentagon. They saw eye to eye on almost all issues.

Ameena tried to replace him, but she seemed too young and inexperienced and must have realized it when she asked people to show up at a City Council Meeting with less than 24 hours notice and gave the wrong date. Moderator Jim saved her that day and she must have realized she better report on the Napergate Man than try to fill his shoes.

So I see the Napergatians in a major dilemmna without a leader. But strange things always happens and maybe a leader will emerge one day. Maybe the leader will emerge from these blogs. We just have to wait and see!

PS. For the record I was a customer of Extra Value Liquors in the 80s and went in there a lot to use the pay phone before cell phones were widespread when I was a small home builder in town. I knew the Napergate Man very well, and I knew Bloggers Randy, Bob, Scott, Roger, Herbert for sure and a few others. You can tell who they are from some of the things they say. Very easy! Randy lived across the street with the Napergate Man and they were very close. I believe everything Randy has said has been very accurate. He is an MBA high ranking executive in town and not some shady character as d. bone described him. Randy at one time worked for ATT and probably was the guy who was involved with the Napergate Man in rallying those ATT employees and overturning the City Council decison from 7-0 to 0-7. I did attend that classic city council meeting with the Napergate Man and Randy. You could say they knew how to apply pressure to make sure I showed up. I remember the Napergate Man telling me I would not be able to use his pay phone anymore if I did not show up. I needed to use that pay phone real bad so I showed up. By the way Randy made sure the Napergate Man had an ATT pay phone in his store and 3 others outside his plaza. MCI was banned from his plaza. The Napergate Man knew where his customers came from. He had the common sense not to upset 7600 employees from ATT at the time. City Officials at the time had no common sense and tried to save a half a cent a year per resident and simply forgot 7600 ATT employees live and work in Naperville. Naperville was much smaller at the time and that was huge percentage of the work force in town. Can anyone imagine a city council to be so incompetent that they would upset that many residents and employees from Naperville over a half a penny savings by switching to MCI/WorldCom which had no connection to the city and turned out fraudulent anyway!


Moderator Jim: Sat Liebert, why don't you take over as leader. You certainly seem to have it all nailed down. Just a thought.

Host Ted,
What Adam did is very interesting. He got off his butt as you have been suggesting and contributed something I believe is very significant.

I think he should be praised for spending less than 2 minutes to drive the path described in Bob's Post a while back.
He was already downtown so I imagine it was almost effortless as long as he had some gas!

Joe's response is very evasive and even proves Adam's theroy. He states the police were just doing their normal "spread." Well a "spread" means they were scattering around. Thus they would not all have ended up right behind Ted's Montana Grill at the same exact time of 50-55 seconds after he pulled his H-2 out of the spot right next to where they station themselves in mid summer.

I believe Adam added one more piece to the puzzle by getting off his butt and doing 2 minutes of work. Less time than it takes most of us to post a letter. He proved Mr. Rod Randall was correct in less than 55 seconds.

I spent an hour reading this morning after tracking this thread down and the only new major development was really Adam's post! I guess what motivated Adam was the debate that took place yesterday. At least the debate yesterday was much more civilized than when it was on the Main Page where so many people were bloggin at the same time, getting emotional and blasting each other.

It seemed Host Ted kept the very nice debate going. As Susan said it seemed like Host Ted was playing defense attorney for the police while 3 others were trying to prosecute the City of Naperville Police Department.

I don't blame Host Ted for taking this position of defense attorney. I don't see anything wrong with him taking on that role. Otherwise it would have been a boring day. I look at it as he is just being a Devil's Advocate. A very good Devil's Advocate! Most great attorneys use Devil's Advocate types to prepare their clients for any questions that may be forthcoming.

None of the city supporters are contributing anything but T.B. How do Anonymous and Ted for President contribute anything? They are on here asking Ted to end the debate. Why is the debate bothering them so much? If it bothers them they should move to the Main Page where there are 10 other topics they are welcome to participate in.

As far as Joe pretending he can't go anywere without seeing the Napergate Man all over the thread...well that is simply not true! The Napergate Man is on less than 10% of the threads. Joe is here by choice. Joe wants to be here. Joe likes debate. Joe can't stand being alone on the Piano Thread. He needs to be where the action is. He enjoys the rise a debate gives him and should just be honest and say I enjoy the thrill of debate and these Napergate threads offer this! You have to wonder why Joe is always in denial!

Joe's frustration is he met a group of bloggers that shred just about everying he says to smithereens. Joe wishes Sergeat Bell's friend would give him an AMAZING ACCOUNT like Bob gave, which enabled the Napergatians to go on the offensive and in my opinion prove their case in Ted's Court and win! Sorry Joe, but it appears he does not want to give you one so you will have to continue imagining the City Case!

Host Ted,

I am a little surpised you would wonder why Adam would spend 2 mintues of his time on this case re-creating the events of a misdemeanor.

You have spent 2 months attempting to re-create the events of this misdemeanor. You were in a way making fun of him because you claimed he was acting like it was a JFK assasination.

Wow! He spends 2 minutes and he was acting "like it was a JFK assasination." But you spend 2 months! So what are YOU acting like it is! Very unusual statement on your part if you ask me!

Your comments Ted were to sidetrack the bloggers from the very good points he made. I did say yesterday a leap of faith was required without the police or the Napergate Man cooperating. Adam made the leap of faith much smaller and Bob's account that you called credible just more believable.

As this case continues to unfold, I believe we will see the City Police were guilty of discrimination and abuse of discretion. Watch and see!

I would not be surprised if DF's attorney calls the Napergate Man at some point and asks him if he needs representation. This seems like a stronger misdemeanor case than the DF case because.

1.The Napergate Man was not interfering with any police activity.

2.He is not alleged to have pushed, shoved, or punched a police officer.

3.He is not known to be a bully and was not a bully that evening. He seems to be soft spoken and very tame.

4. His friend remained very calm and never said ONE word during the whole arrest....further evidence that the hand cuffing was unnecessary. Is that not exactly how police want friends to behave?

5. Discretion was abused! An officer has wide powers of discretion. But when they are abused he is held accountable! The Napergate Man has already won cases of ABUSE of DISCRETION in our court system!

6. There is a pattern of discrimination over the years. Bloggers misunderstood that his 2 license REVOCATIONS were not his vehicle licenses that were only SUSPENSIONS. It was his Bailey Rd. liquor license that was actually revoked twice. A second liquor license was DENIED at a Rt. 59 location somewhere! That is a pattern of 3 and conspiracies usually have patterns stamped all over them!

7. Speaking of JFK conspiracies, Host Ted, did you forget that the NPD called both Roselle and Stone Park and succeeded in causing havoc with his liquor licenses there until he was able to convince them that their calls were based on the verdict of a Kangaroo Trial. Talk to Chief Dial and ask him if the Napergate Man was not a big deal, why they had to take this battle to Roselle and Stone Park. In Roselle, he was actually denied a renewal and a second license because of NPD actions, according to an Ameena report posted earlier based on a Napergate Ad vetted by Sun officials and attorneys for accuracy!

8. A dog was mistreated! Dogs do not like to be abruptly separated from their owners in such a sudden fashion and given to a stranger. They do have anxiety shock in such circumstances that can be lasting while affecting their personalities and trust for humans.

9. The Napergate Man never abused City Employees. They abused him by not permitting him to demonstrate outside of City Hall. How many groups really get permits before a 20 person demonstraton which included distributing Napergate ads?

10.Finally, I believe the arrest and release time on this police report were ALTERED after the Naperville Police saw the huge outcry on these blogs by so many Naperville Citizens regarding the length of time he was incarcerated! I also believe police lied about a booking officer being in a motorcycle accident so they can give him a bullsh*t reason why he was being punished in case it ever got to the point where we are at today.

Adam:

"I bet all the nice pro-police folks bloggin here with us could tell you how long it takes to run a plate while driving. And I bet it would take at least 55 seconds. Thus for all those police to be at the scene of the stop immediately, means the plates were run while he was parked. I AM QUITE SURE!"
++++++++++++++++++++++++

When they do it via voice over the radio, from the time the officer calls it in to the time the dispatcher gives the information back it's usually less than 5 seconds.

{TAG #} comes back to a {Year/color/model description} out of {city} registered to a {registered owner name} {{Warrant status / prior history status / other pertinant information}}

The only time I have heard it take longer is when they have to do out of state checks or there is a computer problem.

I would gather their in-car laptops are just as fast or faster.


Sorry to tell you that your assumption about how long it takes is flat out wrong.

Buy yourself a Pro94 scanner from Radio Shack. I'll program it for you and you can hear for yourself. In fact, you can hear for yourself that there is no conspiratorial radio chatter at all.

I'm serious. Go buy one and listen to it. You'll be amazed how procedural and on the up and up their enforcement activities are.

Downtown, the police move around as part of their normal patrol. Heaven forbid that anyone acknowledges this and blows a whole in the theory that it had to be a pre-planned conspiracy and not just units doing their normal spread out to cover the larger downtown area as the bars are letting out. I wouldn't doubt some units normally head up main and park up by Benton or Franklin or up by the Children's museum to watch for suspect DUI driving characteristics on Washington.

That would make just too much sense. These emotional conclusions unsupported by fact that people are making on here just really make the poster seem like an ignorant fool.

As all good things have to come to an end, so to does this blog. No more on the main page I see...

If there was no intentional act performed by the police prior to stopping him, then why was there three police cars on the scene in a very short time to "arrest" someone for driving on a suspended license?

Response from host:

So it's hardly a surprise that additional units would respond in a short time frame. That's standard procedure in any department.

The question that will never be resolved here is whether police knew who Basim Esmail was before they legally ran his plates and pulled him over because he was driving on a suspended license. . Otherwise, forget about it. You'll never get an answer.

Posted by: Rod Randall | March 7, 2008 12:11 PM

==================================================================

Host Ted,
This thing really has gotten interesting and I feel we all have become investigators trying to put this mysterious puzzle together. I was downtown tonight and drove from outside Jimmy's where the Napergate Man was parked to the back of Ted's Montana Grill where he was stopped. I counted till 3 at each stop sign. The first time I made it in 55 seconds. The second time I made it in 50 seconds. You can not speed because of all the cops and 3 stops signs within a few hundred feet of each other. The whole trip is about 2.5 blocks at the most!

The distance was short and time elapsed so little that I have to agree with Marybeth, Maryann, Susan and Mr. Rod Randall who seem to think that they ran his plates in advance. Cops are just not that fast where they can be called and be there in 50-55 seconds. When he was stopped I believe there were 3 police cars and at least 4 cops from what I recall reading in Bob's Post that you defined as credible. For all that to happen it would have had to have been pre-planned.

This is where the time line begins to kill your theory that additional units would respond "in a short time frame." If one cop car was running his plate and getting an answer, you would think that would at least take a minute since he had to drive and enter data in a computer or make a phone call while driving and watching to see if the Napergate Man would roll thru a stop sign...a lot of multitasking would be needed in less than 55 seconds to pull this feat off! So if that took a minute how could all those cops have already been there. Impossible! They were simply already following as Bob's post indicated. I guess you were right when you said Bob's post is credible. It really is!

Mr. Rod Randall asked a very good question. I was curious myself. I wanted to go drive the path they drove. He really made a great point. They were not even there a short time later as Mr. Randall thought. They were all already there together when the stop was made.

I think these little things are what wins and loses cases in court. You really don't need the Napergate Man or the NPD to figure these things out. They are impossibilities unless it was all pre-planned, they had already ran his license plate in advance, and they jumped in their vehicles when he jumped in his. That is the only way they could arrive in 50-55 seconds as he did. No other scenario is possible. I don't even think Susan needs to take a small leap of faith and believe Maryann. I think it is an iron clad impossiblity to have occurred the way you are suggesting.

It just seems to have occurred exactly as the Napergatians said it happened. If they stopped him 5 miles away and 10 minutes later, other police could have caught up after being called from the first police vehilce. But no way can they catch up in .1 mile and 50-55 seconds especially if he was running the plate and waiting for an answer.

I bet all the nice pro-police folks bloggin here with us could tell you how long it takes to run a plate while driving. And I bet it would take at least 55 seconds. Thus for all those police to be at the scene of the stop immediately, means the plates were run while he was parked. I AM QUITE SURE!

How do you know they legally ran his plates, Ted? How do you know they did not selectively run his plates in a discriminatory manner every time he was downtown to see if they could get him on something? I think we all agree you can not legally run the plates of only Hispancis downtown. Running plates in a discriminatory fashion is obviously illegal. How did you come to the conclusion that it was legal? Did you have a trial for the Napergate Man or did Chief Dial suggest it was legal? I am sure they thought the Kangaroo Trial they had for the Napergate was very legal. It turned out to have violated many state and federal laws! I think legality is determined in court of law by a judge and jury and not our Host!

Response from Ted:

Adam, when I am in downtown Naperville, the last thing on my mind is re-creating events of a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license, like it was the JFK assassination. Hold on, my phone's ringing--I think it's Oliver Stone calling...

Susan –

Very interesting. You would rather believe the old recollections of Mike and/or Bob now than a police report written the same day as the arrest? Does the word contemporaneous mean anything to you?

If you were to believe the other zealots and think that the NPD both knew who Mr. Esmail was and knew his license was suspended, why would they have to wait and hope that Mr. Esmail ran through a stop sign? Your conspiracy theory does not quite mesh with the others.

I think pretty much every cop in the country will make sure he has back-up available if/when he thinks he will make an arrest (if possible). The fact that there was more than one cop present proves nothing.

Yes, the Napergate Man has to talk to solve this issue. No other “witness” has standing to sue. No other individual can say what happened to them. The Napergatians seem to think that the NPD’s silence is deafening, but what about the Napergate Man’s? Why is he silent on such an important issue?

The cops’ chance of not knowing the Napergate Man are “1 in 1,000,000,000”? You have to be kidding, right? How many of those cops started after the Napergate era? How many don’t even live in Naperville? Your statement here lacks any and all credibility.

T.B.

Host Ted and Maryann,


You both make great points! I go to church every Sunday and we are told that our beliefs have to be based on some leap of faith. For example, the church uses the leap of faith theory to convince us that believing God created us is a smaller leap of faith than us evolving form a cell that became a human billions of year later based on Darwin's Theory. I see the point of my church and have taken the smaller leap in faith in deciding between your opposing positions

In studying your theories, a little bit of a leap of faith is needed. No offense Ted, but the leap of faith needed to believe Maryann's theory is less than the one need to believe your theory.

Maryann is the librarian of your blogs as Ameena is the librarian of the Napergate Ads. She really studies you posts! I can see it!

Bob and Mike made their respective accounts of the evening and morning first. They told their stories as they remember them. Not based on a police report they did not have! Their stories really meshed extremely well. They did not even know each other until that evening! They were not even acquaintances so they are not likely to have colluded. One is a neighbor and one is a long term friend.

Bob stated there were 2 or 3 police cars he could see at the stop sign of Chicago Ave. and Main St. less than 15 seconds after they took off. They were parked by Jimmys! That should tell you they had already checked his plates, Ted! When Bob told his story he had no clue he would be microscoped on Ted's Threads. He told it as it is. When you tell the truth, you story holds up! He told the truth! You, yourself called him credible! Well, if he is credible as you say and I believe, the police would have had to have run his plates while he was parked. It only requires a tiny leap of faith to believe that...very tiny! I believe that!

I also believe they let him go thru all those stops signs hoping he would roll one. That would have been the cover to running his license plates. They failed in their mission because the Napergate Man and Bob were not kids drinking in the bars. They are alert men who pay attention to their surroundings and obey traffic signals more so when police are following them in 2-3 vehicles. I believe from memory that is what Bob said! I hope I am not wrong!

When they were stopped, all the police were there, Ted! They did not have to call additional cops! They made sure they had enough. Let us give the NPD credit for being efficient in what they were trying to do, even though it was improper to treat a law abiding citizen in this manner.

While there may have been a few bloggers that got DUIs upset with the police and taking the Napergate Man's side, most seemed like bloggers with no agenda who just felt he was not treated well by police. It seems like 10 people came and said we were treated very well and were booked and released for our suspensions. I think all were I-bonded except one who had to come up with cash on a second suspension he had.

The Napergate Man does not have to talk to solve this mystery. NPD needs to be talking! You must see Chief Dial, Host Ted! Can't you ask him what caused that big delay in booking that night? Was there that much crime in our town that night to have so many people in jail? Was the second booker injured in a motorcycle accident? Why can't they get help in booking if it is that backed up? They seem to have no trouble assigning 12 police officers and sergeants who want to work overtime on Chicago Ave. and Washington in the summers!

Also, Host Ted, the chance of one of those 12 cops on Chicago Ave not knowing the Napergate Man is 1 in 1,000,000,000! That does not require hardly any leap of faith. I bet if you check those police reports listed in his famous non-Napergate ad with 200 Fake ID's by police report, more than one cop on Chicago Ave would have shown up to have received those fake I.D.s from the Napergate Man. And that was just one ad. This Napergate Man is sharp. I can see a policeman saying I never met him, and one of his attorneys pulling up one of those police reports and saying he handed you this ID on such a such a date! That is how people are fried in court. That is how our police were fried by the Napergate Man in the past, I assume, using Ameena or Marilyn's words to protect myself. It does get hard to remember who said what on your blogs after a while.

Ted, your quote below:

* A court ruling indicates a former administration led by a now-deceased mayor wrongfully denied Basim Esmail's rights to conduct business in Naperville.*

is only half the truth, Ted. You have to know by now like we all now it was not one former administration that was nailed, but 2 former administrations. I believe this is an attempt by you to soften the situation a bit and try to dilute any conspiracy theories. Half truths Ted will get you caught and nowhere. I think you are gradually finding the shocking power of your threads as we are. There are just too many people keeping an eye on you as well as others. No one can get away with any distortions or half-truths on your blogs. It is like being under the microscope. Don't tell the truth and someone is going to bust you. It shows you "it is best to tell the truth or keep your mouth shut." I don't want to be plagiarizing the Napergate Man's line because I believe I stole those words from him that he coined and were published in your print edition!

Bloggers don't like long letters! But I think those 1 sentence posts by pro-city bashers are tasteless and say nothing. I will say I was very impressed with all your personal responses today. You were not copying or pasting. You were engaging your bloggers. I really enjoyed that part most.

You were trying to be a very good defense attorney. Actually you were an excellent defense attorney for the NPD but they gave you a very weak case. You would have lost your case against Maryann today! It would have been a unanimous decision for Maryann representing the Napergate Man vs. Attorney Ted representing the NPD.

It really is obvious why this guy wins. His friends don't even dare to lie. I think he has preached his words to all his friends. "Tell the truth or keep your mouth shut."

PS. Ted, you seemed to have recuperated from your exhaustion of a few days ago. It is obvious as hell you were as sharp as a razor today but defending a very guilty client sometimes can be a very taxing challenge!

Response from Ted:

Instead of reading the Gospels According to Bob or Mike, we need to hear from Basim Esmail himself before we have the slightest interest in asking any questions of NPD about his arrest for driving on a suspended license downtown in summer 2006, 18 months ago. As far as I can tell, Basim Esmail has no interest in asking the NPD any questions, or pursuing the matter, and that he just wants to be left alone.

This is not just a tactic to "call out" Basim Esmail and get him to talk to us. Frankly, if the man chooses to talk to us, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. I've certainly learned a lot about him, not by choice. If the man prefers not to talk to us, that's fine with me, too. I have plenty else to do, we have plenty other much more current stories to pursue.

Listen very carefully: neither we, nor any other media organization that I know of, would undertake such a story without first securing the cooperation of the principal character.

Go forth now, oh army of citizen journalists, and ask Basim Esmail to contact me at tslowik@scn1.com or 630-416-5255. Because until Basim Esmail talks to us himself, I do not want to hear one more person demand that we confront the NPD with questions about a man who clearly has no interest himself in seeing the matter pursued. It's a no-win situation for us. All it could possibly achieve is upsetting Mr. Esmail. Who are we to ask questions on his behalf?

To: Anonymous | March 7, 2008 03:44 PM

Do you have proof for any of the statements in your post or are you, like many of your fellow Napergatians, starting off with rampant speculation and then proceeding as if it's all established fact? Do you know for a fact that the 12 police officers were just ending their shift when they arrested the Napergate Man? Is it standard police procedure for beat officers who've made an arrest to steer their wards through the booking process, or are they encouraged to get back out on the street ASAP to fight crime. It sounds to me like YOU'RE the one who is the expert in the NPD's standard operating procedures.

Nevertheless, nothing in your post refutes my previous post to the effect that you are all assuming a conspiracy even if you're not saying it.

BTW, no one has yet mentioned that the arrest took place on a week-end shortly after the bars closed. Want to bet there were at least at least a few DUI's that were also being booked at the same time, and that that might have accounted for the backlog. Also, I don't believe it's ever been stated that the alleged motorcycle accident happened to an on-duty police officer. If the officer was off-duty, I doubt it would have been deemed worthy of coverage in the Sun.

T.B. Excellent analysis of the situation. I agree completely.

I've noticed that many people are claiming to be good friends, business associates, and supporters of the Napergate man. A number of people have also claimed this relationship goes back for decades. I too admire this guy for his past achievements and tenacity - although I've never had the pleasure of meeting him.

Just a quick question for all of his friends, why doesn't someone ask him what went on that night? Maybe one of you can alert him to this blog and allow him to speak? I do know one thing, the Napergate man would never back down from a fight that he thought was worth fighting - perhaps this is why he has never commented on all the alleged NPD violations in this case.

Also a question for the host: is there a method to determine just how many "different" bloggers there truly are? Many people use the same name each time, but I am suspicious that "some" (one) of the people here are using a different female name each time (just a guess). Perhaps this particular person can just pick one name to use each time, how about Sybil?

Note from host:

Sorry, we simply don't have the time or resources to track whether the same person is posting under various identities.

Let's go piecemeal here:


Maybe this whole perception of timeline embellishment is because someone didn't have their clock set properly to the right time zone.

Bob says it was 1am. Arrest report says 2:18AM.

Which was it?

I can see 1am stop , then 1:18 arrest.. or 2am stop , then 2:18 arrest...

I especially like the highly educated community comment Maryann made giving herself way to much credit, that is for sure. She is clearly NOT highly educated, and every time she writes it shows.

Start a new thread, MOVE ON MARYANN.org.

Hello John Q. Public,
A lot of winking and nodding goes on in police stations. He could have given a wink to the booking clerk to keep him in for four hours for whatever reason!

The bars had closed. The rush in downtown was over. There were 12 excess police officers that were no longer needed. Anyone one of these could have spent 30 minutes to book him and get him rolling. Police officers sit in jury boxes all day doing nothing but waiting for jury trials to take place that settle in 99% of cases while reaping huge overtime.

With all this wasted overtime, we can not pay a little more overtime to end a 4 hour booking backlog in our police station that truly needs the attention of police officers! That is ridiculous! The 12 officers were just getting off duty. Are you telling me not one of them would have wanted another hour of overtime? Nobody is asking for any volunterism here like the Napergate Man provided to the community time and time again!

I think it is disrepectful to leave someone in jail for 4 hours when we have a 300 person police department. That should never happen. That further shows how incompetent our police chief is. I can bet you yet another dozen police that night were on duty socializing in coffee shops while the Napergate Man was jailed unjustly. This does not speak well for our police department! Not well at all!

A Sergeant like Gregg Bell is qualified to do booking. If he saw a huge backlog or a booking officer missing because he or she was in a motorcycle accident, he had a duty to inform some superior of a massive back log or a serious motorcycle injury to a cop who prevented him from showing up.

I am sorry but your whole story smells worse than a raccoon. Since so many of you guys know so much about the police dept, tell us something about this cop who was on a motorcycle accident and did not show up for work. I suspect this was a lie told to the Napergate Man. The Napergate Man is not going to make a lie like that up! He told his friends what the police told him to try to explain why he was delayed so long. I am sure Bob who was stuck in Dunkin Donut for 4 hours with a dog wanted to know why it took so long. The Napergate Man did not bash the police. He just told Bob what they told him!

This is a believable story and requires answers from the NPD. If they lied about a cop injured on a motorcycle accident, it does not look very professional if you ask me!

I suspect it was a lie, or the 4 pro police officer posters, bloggin with us would have come up with the evidence by now. They have come up with everything else so far!

Maryann baby, I know I can agree that your post are always way to long, repetitive and are never without a lot of BS in them. Are you taking the test next year? I sure hope so.

Host Ted,
Mr. Randall makes an excellent point. Bob's Amazing account details exactly that. The minute he got in his Hummer H2, he was pursued by 3 cops cars simultaneously hoping he would run 3 or 4 stop signs so they could have a cover and pretend they ran his license plate while following him. They had run it before and that is why 3 cop cars were already following. The Napergate Man and Bob appear to be in very good shape. The Napergate Man from his picture and dimensions appears to be the size of a full back. His facials feature indicates he is strong. So they made sure they had the manpower to arrest him since they knew they were going to arrest him before he jumped in his H2. You really are becoming like Joe, Host Ted, and I can see how your credibility is actually eroding slowly but surely. Your appear to have common sense but in this case you are pretending you don't have any so you can please your colleague Chief David Dial at the Naperville Sun. That is why conflicts of interest are avoided in our society. The Naperville Sun is into kissy kissy with the City Police instead of being a watchdog as is the proper role between newspaper and police in most 21st century towns! It is so obvious you are afraid to sneeze on them!

What you guys don't realize is Naperville is a highly educated community? The can see right thru you guys at the Naperville Sun. Mr. Rod Randall sees right thru you guys and can slice you guys like a knife thru butter but he is a classy gentleman taken it easy on you guys...very easy!

As far as your statement, "So it's hardly a surprise that additional units would respond in a short time frame. That's standard procedure in any department." That is a Joe like statement distorting the truth. Additional units did not have to respond in a short time or a short time later. Bob told us they were following the minute they left. They both saw them in the rear view mirror or side mirrors. They were counting numbers because they knew more than one police car was already tailing them. I believe Bob could see at least 2 or 3. The minute they were stopped the were surrounded by police. That does not sound like a situation where back up was called. Back-up was already involved in the "framing" or "conspiracy" or "set-up" or whatever you feel comfortable calling it. That is what it sounds like to me. There was no need to call for back-up because it was a well planned orchestrated operation that took place before he had his right foot inside the H2.

Of course his license plate was run while he was parked! Common Ted, don't try to be like Joe and become the second most disliked guy on your own blogs by playing this blue code of silence game that cops can do no wrong. And for you to believe the police would testify under oath honestly is another insult to the intelligence of your bloggers. The Naperville Police lied under oath in the Kangaroo Trial. That is not an allegation. That is provable fact! That was determined by Federal and State Appellant Courts after it was previously determined 2 years prior by the IABTF and lower courts.

Why don't you try to say something like I know that Naperville Police Officer lied in the past about the Napergate Man under oath and in trials but I think maybe these same police men now stopped lying. Host Ted, if you been following your threads as carefully as I have you would have realized that the Naperville Police even lied and tried to dispute a very clear video tape. It worked in a Kangaroo Court presided by a Park District Police Officer who was going to rule with his buddies on the Naperville City Police force. All conflicts of interest that led to this massive lynching. How very sad and you wonder why he has so much support in town and why people feel anger and sadness when he is abused one more time. I can see why Chinese Lady Dor was almost in tears one time while writing!

I can only speculate that our police department underestimated the Napergate Man's brilliance, his intelligent attorneys, his resources and last but not least his apparent wealth that enabled him to expose the conspiracy by fighting for so long both in Napergate ads and in the court system. And what everyone seems to be missing is that we are not saying the Naperville Police treat all citizens badly. They treated 99% of the citizens very professionally. What we are complaining about is why they hate this Napergate Man, why they treat him unfairly, why they abuse him, why they continue to abuse him, etc. etc. etc.

The five bashers and yourself Host Ted, refused to be pinned down to the issue at hand. You are always changing the subject. The 200 bloggers are not saying the Naperville police abused them. They are saying the Naperville Police were very nice to them and are pointing our they let them turn themselves in voluntarily in emission and toll violation suspensions as other departments do.

The focus is on why one person known as the Napergate Man is not treated like everyone else. That is what we want to know. I challenge you Ted, to answer the question I am posing to you directly without telling me about other good deeds of the NPD. We know they have made many good arrests. We also know the Napergate Man has a list of accomplishments that can go around City Hall a few times. Those are not the issues!

The issue is why is this one person not treated fairly by our City and Police. I believe it can all be found in the word "NAPERGATE." Through Napergagte he exposed their corruption of 2 decades fair and square. He never hit a police officer. He never shot at a police officer. He never slandered or libeled a police officer. He played fair and square and exposed them for lying under oath. For harassing and hassling him. For discriminating against him and abusing their discretion in dealing with him.
Common Ted! The Supreme Court of Illinois accused the former Mayor and Police Dept. of abusing their discretion. Yes, a 9-0 verdict against our city. All you do is destroy your credibility when you side with rouge cops over 9 Supreme Court Justices.

In 1995 a 3 Judge panel of the Illinois Appellant Court stated the City and Police discriminated against the Napergate Man. The city had revoked 2 of his licenses that year and all the courts could not find a violation in the Kangaroo Record worth charging him a dime for! Common Ted! And you have the Federal Appellant Court only ruling 2-1 for him in his Civil Rights Trial. Of course Joe posted it for us so we can read it on your site. Did you not read it Host Ted? Do you not put any credence in what Joe posts? Common Ted! You are being ridiculous in your blanket support of the NPD!

You started off real good on your thread. You wanted facts! You wanted the bus to get rolling before you would join. We got the bus rolling and you flew out the window like a pussy cat when Chief David Dial or someone told you, hinted to you, or gave you the wink, that you better back off on this Napergate Man issue. Common Ted! You are second in command at the Naperville Sun. And you are trying to tell your 61,000 viewers the arrest of the Napergate Man deserves the same publicity as the arrest of any ordinary citizen. He is just an ordinary citizen. He is a nobody. His case belongs only in the police blog report with Joe average who has done nothing for society. And ironically, even when this incident took place, he was not even worthy of one sentence on your police blog section. Common Ted! It is obvious you guys don't want to cover this guy any more than the old Naperville Sun.

You want to paint a picture of our town that is different than reality. I bet over 20,000 people have crossed paths with this Napergate Man in his 2 liquor stores, his plaza, signing his 2 petitions, his grass roots movement, etc. They have had a chance to meet him. I am sure they all see through what the Naperville Sun is doing. I am sure half these people stopped subscribing because they are tired of reading very soft journalism. And what you are doing with your blogs with your comments is reinforcing the soft journalism.
Common Ted! Don't underestimate us!

I challenge you and your 5 supporters here to focus on how the NPD treats ONLY the Napergate Man. Not the rest of us who for the most part are treated well. But treating everyone well except one does not bode well. Especially when this one person is seen as a leader and and hero by at least half the town. I am sure in regards to his National Award for his fight against minor the entire town sees him as a HERO except the NPD. Common Ted!

Response from Ted:

Pure speculation from the get-go. We'll never know why the plates were run in the first place. I think it's naive to think the police followed him hoping he would commit a violation. I think it's more likely they were waiting for information to show up on their computer verifying that the vehicle they were following was registered to a man with a suspended license.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You say The Sun is kissy-kissy with NPD. I say there's no evidence of a conspiracy to railroad Basim Esmail in this instance. We'll never know the truth, but it's probably somewhere in between.

If, as you say, the NPD was engaged in a conspiracy to harass Basim Esmail, there is one person in town who could do something about it, and it's not the editor of The Naperville Sun. It's Basim Esmail. If he were to file a civil rights lawsuit alleging the conspiracy you describe, I guarantee, The Sun would report it. he wouldn't have to talk to us, we'd have documentation from which we could write a report.

It's funny to me how you narrowly describe this now as being about how the city of Naperville allegedly harasses Basim Esmail, when many others here are saying the opposite, that this isn't about Basim Esmail at all, it's about NPD officers abusing their discretion in many instances.

I see this as you being unhappy that I'm not agreeing with you and 100 percent joining the call saying Oh, yeah, there's absolutely no doubt that Naperville officials are looking for every opportunity to harass Basim Esmail because of who he is and what he's done in the past.

This is what we agree on:
* Basim Esmail was good at catching underage drinkers
* A court ruling indicates a former administration led by a now-deceased mayor wrongfully denied Basim Esmail's rights to conduct business in Naperville.
* The Sun really dropped the ball back then by passing on a great story and not covering the Napergate controversy.
* It's lousy what happened to Basim Esmail and his dog one summer night in 2006 when he was arrested downtown for driving on a suspended license.

This is what we disagree on:
* To this day every person employed by or elected to serve the city of Naperville is engaged in a conspiracy to harass Basim Esmail.
* Naperville police officers indiscriminantly harass and mistreat people during traffic stops.
* Chief Dial should resign because of the previous two points.
* The Naperville Sun is too afraid, incompetant or in cahoots with Naperville officials to do stories about the previous three points.
* There should always be an active Napergate thread on the home page of this blog because it will always be the most imporant issue in town that people want to talk about.

If Basim Esmail is the hero you portray him to be, it would be great to see him elected mayor of Naperville. He doesn't appear to want to run for public office. In fact, he doesn't seem to want any attention at all. Yet you want us to heap attention on this man, who just wants his privacy.

"And most people are not talking about a conspiracy even though over the years his license was wrongfully revoked not once but twice! They are not talking about a conspiracy even though he apparently was arrested, handcuffed and jailed for both emissions and toll violations. You have to admit the BOOK is thrown at this guy to the extreme in each and every case."

Marybeth, the NPD does not suspend people's licenses for tollway violations. That would be the Tollway Authority's job. Once you claim that two government agencies are involved in the campaign to "get" the Napergate Man, you have a conspiracy, whether you call it that or not. For that matter, I doubt Sgt. Bell was responsible for holding the NGM in jail until 6:00 a.m. Sgt. Bell probably went back out on the street after bringing the NGM to the station. So now you have an officer or officers at the police station who are also involved in the anti-NGM cabal, hence another allegation of conspiracy.

Susan:

"I think Rachael had a right to mention that if the Napergate Man was going to be ticketed and jailed for .40 cents, there is nothing wrong with ticketing the Mayor for a vehicle accident. I think it was proper comment that shed light to fairness. Why do you have a problem with that Joe? Do you think the Mayor is above the law and should not be ticketed? This Mayor is a classy fella. If the police did not issue him a ticket, he would force them to issue him a ticket."
-----

You obviously missed THE first post in the blog about Pradel:

Comments

Unfortunate accident, Luckily no one was hurt. Treat is as if any Joe Schmoe did it.. no preferential treatment.

Posted by: Joe | February 5, 2008 06:31 PM
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Further down...
"Man up to what happened like a regular citizen, "

Posted by: Joe | February 6, 2008 01:49 AM
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You either missed my posts or you purposely tried to ask a question by making an implication that you knew was not true. Which was it?


Does anyone know, were Basim Esmail's shoelaces taken away from him when he was arrested, because of the suicide threat? Because that's what happened to me, the one and only time in my life I was arrested, handcuffed and humiliated by police. I spent four hours in a Chicago jail. It was Opening Day, 1989, a year the Cubs made the playoffs. Mitch Williams (Wild Thing) was brought in to save a one-run lead in the ninth, and he walked the bases loaded before striking out the side. What a finish! After the game, in a crowd packing the L station, I ran into some old friends and we started high-fiving and jumping up and down because of the great game we had just seen. Out of nowhere these cops tackled us and arrested us for disorderly conduct. I wasn't even drunk! Went to court later, charges were tossed against all of us. But what a hassle at the time, having your shoelaces taken away for crying out loud.

You know, there's always going to be a jerk somewhere. It could be there person selling you your morning coffee. It could be the person who takes your picture at the DMV. It could be your kid's teacher. It could be the police officer who arrests you for driving on a suspended license. This doesn't mean all DMV workers or teachers or coffee shop workers or police officers are jerks, and that the CEO of Starbucks, the Illinois Secretary of State, the school superintendent and the police chief should resign. It means jerks will be jerks, deal with it.

Marybeth –

Very interesting (and long) post. Where should I start?

Let’s start with how many bloggers are on this tread…you stated there are “”over 200 bloggers bloggin away”. Your post was the 298th on this thread. With so many people posting here multiple times (Joe is widely criticized for being so prolific in his writing), I doubt there are 200 bloggers. Your use of exaggeration undermines your credibility.

Funny you should mention that Marilyn lost her cool and called the cops “scum bags and pricks”. You don’t want to be painted with the same broad brush as Marilyn, but I don’t recall seeing where you repudiated her comments either. You claim I overlook the Napergate Man’s good deeds, but you overlook his follower’s bad deeds yourself. I’ve learned two things on these threads, you will always be attacked if you go counter to the Napergatians, and Napergatians get to say what they wish without ever being called on the carpet or apologizing (even Ameena).

I happen to think that what the Napergate Man did in the Nicarico case was very admirable but that’s not what we’re discussing here, is it? And if you want to set the bar that high for credibility, I doubt any of the other bloggers have helped try to free a wrongly convicted man so I guess they should stop writing too, huh?

The Napergate Man’s license was wrongfully revoked twice? Sorry to tell you, but he’s responsible for the cars registered to him no matter what the violations happened to be. As I have read, one suspension was for toll violations and one was emissions violations. If the Napergate Man was out of compliance in either case, he should be treated the same as you or I.

What’s most outrageous about these two license suspensions is your unwavering belief that they were invalid. We all make mistakes. The Pope was not infallible and neither is the Napergate Man. Claims to the contrary just look foolish.

The “abuse of discretion” thing again? This is almost comical. Let’s see…a cop has an offense for which he can arrest someone, but could also use discretion and let that person self-surrender. So by not using the discretion he’s abusing it somehow? Discretion, by definition is the “Freedom to act or judge on one's own” (American Heritage Dictionary). Under your reasoning, the cop was free to decide. You just don’t like the choice he made.

Let’s look at what you wrote about Officer Greg Bell. You said he was “not decent” and stated that he was “not looking to protect and uphold the law that evening. He wanted someone to break the law so he could get his RISE through an arrest, hand cuffing and jailing.” Also, “Greg Bell deserves to be criticized, condemned and punished” and “…this cop had a vendetta against the Napergate Man….”

Then you accuse ME of speculation?!? How outrageous. What are you using to draw the basis for your characterization of Officer Bell? If you’re not speculating and assuming, what is the basis for “knowing” what Officer Bell was doing or thinking that night? Did he tell you? Can you read minds? How do you know he was doing this purely to get a “RISE” (still very juvenile on your part)? Why do you claim to “know” Officer Bell had a vendetta against the Napergate Man?

Also, by what authority have you become judge and jury in claiming Officer Bell needs to be punished?

You are incorrect in stating that the cop failed to indicate in his report that the Napergate Man did anything wrong. It was reported that the Napergate Man drove on a suspended license and that was the basis for the arrest.

You claim there are only five people who have claimed to make the Napergate Man look “not so good”. I have never tried to slander or denigrate the Napergate Man. What I have tried to do was point out the flawed logic of some of his supporters in their tirades against the NPD and claims that the Napergate Man can do no wrong. Some of these tirades against the NPD are ludicrous and border on hatred. It’s actually sickening.

Why is it that whenever someone dares to voice a contrary opinion, they are accused of working for the police department, the city, or someone else such as a developer? I have said many times I do not work for the police department or the city.

For that matter, if you really think I and others lack credibility, why did you write a 1,140 word post in response?

Keep trying Marybeth. One of these days you’ll be able to separate emotion from fact. Until then, I suggest you look up the definition for zealot.

T.B.

If there was no intentional act performed by the police prior to stopping him, then why was there three police cars on the scene in a very short time to "arrest" someone for driving on a suspended license?

Response from host:

I think you know the answer to that. What is Dick Furstenau's claim to fame, again? Oh yeah, complaining about the large number of overtime paid to police assigned to patrol the downtown area. So it's hardly a surprise that additional units would respond in a short time frame. That's standard procedure in any department.

The question that will never be resolved here is whether police knew who Basim Esmail was before they legally ran his plates and pulled him over because he was driving on a suspended license. That question will never be resolved unless Basim Esmail wanted to file a lawsuit to try to find out, and the officers involved in the stop were subpoenaed to testify under oath about the incident. Otherwise, forget about it. You'll never get an answer.

Im sorry Marybeth, you are the one with no credibility sweetie. I really and sincerly want and pray you take the police test next year because the police need quick thinking, great decision making, courageous people like yourself. I am being serious, after reading your opinions over and over I can only believe you are correct and there is no other answers.

I cant wait to see you on the force!!! We are all sure to be safe.

As a Naperville citizen and taxpayer, I would like to say thank you to Sgt Bell for keeping people safe and doing a great job for over 20 yrs at the police department. This one incident which has already been through the legal system is being completely blow out by nothing more than people who have an agenda to smear at all cost. I think smart, educated people can clearly see this being the case.

Thank you for taking an extremely dangerous person off the street several years ago whose name is Paul Runge. As a cop, I am sure that this is not the first time people will try and smear you or complain and I know it is just a part of the job but you deserve better than what the Naperville Sun is allowing to occur. Keep up the good work. Below is an article that was written about that arrest.

Article Excerpt
Byline: Christy Gutowski Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer

Doris Harper trailed behind the prison van with a map, cash, clothes, handgun and schoolgirl's crush on the convicted rapist she planned to help escape.

After overpowering the guards, the object of her affection - Paul Runge - and another prisoner jumped into Harper's car and made a desperate break for freedom.

The trio was bound for Mexico, but didn't quite make it.

Less than 5 miles and 15 minutes later, an alert Naperville officer who recalled the getaway car's license plate number from a statewide police broadcast nabbed the suspects along northbound Route 59 near what is now the Reagan Memorial Tollway.

Gregg Bell, now a police sergeant, didn't learn how significant the Oct. 6, 2000, arrest was until several months later when prosecutors charged Runge with seven sex slayings committed from 1995 to 1997.

Bell may have saved other lives, including that of Harper, a former prison guard who testified she fell in love with Runge and agreed to help him escape.

Joe,
This blog by an establishment guy is what made Rachael write about the Napergate Man on the Mayor's snow accident thread:

"Funny. NPD didn't even have to cite the mayor. He's listed as the at fault driver in a property damage accident. Insurance companies would deal with the accident. A citation to the "at fault" driver does nothing for the insurance companies. All this shows is the Police Department fails to recognize, people make mistakes, it was an accident. Shame on them for their financial producing ticket campeign. Thats why they have a bad reputation in the law enforcement community."

Response from host:

Right, and probably thanks in part to this blog, if police hadn't issued a ticket, there would an outcry about special treatment.

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I think Rachael had a right to mention that if the Napergate Man was going to be ticketed and jailed for .40 cents, there is nothing wrong with ticketing the Mayor for a vehicle accident. I think it was proper comment that shed light to fairness. Why do you have a problem with that Joe? Do you think the Mayor is above the law and should not be ticketed? This Mayor is a classy fella. If the police did not issue him a ticket, he would force them to issue him a ticket.

Now if they hauled him to jail instead of just issuing him a ticket, he would have convened a special meeting of the council and fired the police officer and the chief the next day. He is a no nonsense Mayor. Very tough, but very fair! No one can dispute that.

I am sure if the Naperville Sun asked the Mayor his thoughts on this Napergatge Case, he would probably stated he would have handled it much differently. I think the Naperville Sun should ask Mayor Pradel. Mayor Pradel is respected by both sides and also a former friendly cop. I bet if he makes any kind of statement both sides will accept his statement and move on.

Let us hope the Naperville Sun can find some time to make a phone call. Ever since bloggin started Host Ted has been bloggin non-stop with almost no support from his newspaper. I really think they should put that Tim West to better use. He does one hour of work for 40 hours of pay. His editorials can make a lamb go to sleep they are so boring. I wonder if Moderator Jim could ever make an investigate reporter out of Tim West. It almost seems laughable but worse things have happened on this earth. Lightning strikes are rare but they do happen.

Response from host:

I recal l we did approach Pradel when we were working on the print report about Napergate, and I believe he declined comment.

Tim West has earned his stripes. He knows this town pretty well, and he does what he does.

I think part of what is going on here is that we have over the years -- as has the Daily Herald -- looked into various stats regarding the NPD. There's no evidence to support a lot of the claims being made here. Of course, this is a forum for people to express opinions, and people are welcome here to say what they think of the NPD, so long as they are civil, respectful, and they do not make libelous statements or make personal attacks.

Think of it like this: People could say here that ground contamination at Nike Park poses a threat to public safety. A lot of people could agree. That doesn't make it true. People could start calling for the park board to resign over it and say The Sun is wimpy for not investigating it. They can say that, but that doesn't mean that contaminants at Nike Park pose a threat to public safety.

Joe and T.B.,
It seems to me there are over 200 bloggers bloggin away. One girl named Marilyn loses her cool and calls the oops scum bags and pricks. One person supports her! What you guys are trying to do is paint the rest of us with the same brush. That is not fair.
Look at Randy, for example! He tells about the great relationship former Police Chief James Teal and the Napergate Man had. They both worked against the injustice committed by other cops against 3 Hispanic individuals for many years and eventually succeeded with the help of Eric Zorn and others in getting them off of death row.

When you guys see something like this which is a good deed, you completely ignore it. You don't want to focus on anything positive. You want to lower yourself to Marilyn's level and counter attack! If you guys would ever focus on the positives of the Napergate Man once in a while, when you critique a situation you would have more credibility. But to constantly be bashing 200 bloggers supporting the Napergate Man by trying to paint a picture of what one or two said is not fair.
And most people are not talking about a conspiracy even though over the years his license was wrongfully revoked not once but twice! They are not talking about a conspiracy even though he apparently was arrested, handcuffed and jailed for both emissions and toll violations. You have to admit the BOOK is thrown at this guy to the extreme in each and every case.

Joe, helped to establish a pattern of abuse by uncovering this suspension for emissions that no one knew about and no one was able to find on the Internet. His friend Bob, knew about it, but he never mentioned it to imply a conspiracy. He never mentioned his 2 wrongful revocations to imply a conspiracy.

All he and most others mentioned was an ABUSE OF DISCRETION in this particular case. That is it! How could you not believe this guy deserved better. Would a police chief help him write his Napergate ads if he was a criminal? I think not!
This Napergate Man has been everywhere in the 80s, 90s and early 00s working with everyone mostly behind the scenes. The Naperville Sun did not give him much ink, yet it seems like he established himself thru grass roots movements and Napergatge ads. The police knew him very well.

As other said, if they were decent, they would have pointed out to him that his lincense was not suspended and asked him not to drive. Those specific cops were not decent. Sergeant Greg Bell was not looking to protect and uphold the law that evening.
He wanted someone to break the law so he could get his RISE through an arrest, hand cuffing and jailing. He should try to get his RISE through arresting dangerous criminals. If he did that there would be 200 bloggers praising him instead of condemning him.

Greg Bell deserves to be criticized, condemned and punished. He looked for trouble that night and created trouble. We are bloggin about the Napergate Man today because he abused his discretion. Discretion has to be applied in the proper way. A man walking his dog with a friend was not looking for trouble. He asked his friend not to say a word to the cops and be respectful. His friend never said a word. He did everything in his power to make sure the situation remained calm. And he never went to the Police Academy to learn theses things. The guy has got lots of common sense. He is obviously well versed in not antagonizing cops on the street.

Thus Sgt. Greg Bell was completely out of line and discriminated against the Napergate Man by jailing him for 4 hours instead of allowing him to come in for booking, I-Bond or post bond, be fingerprinted and leave. Why are others afforded this treatment and not the Napergate Man? The Napergate Man deserved better treatment equal to others. No one is saying he deserved preferential treatment.

And when people like you try to speculate about reasons why the cop acted as he did that does not help. The cop said the Napergate Man did nothing wrong in the report. The cop said he did not mouth off, say he was part of the Mafia, say he would have Chief Dial fire him, and never said he resisted arrest. All that is clear! So why the speculations that you and others throw into the equation.

If you add and subtract, it all boils down to the fact this cop had a vendetta against the Napergate Man to run his plate selectively, to allow him to drive knowing he had a suspension while watching him get in his car, and to unnecessarily jail him.
A good Sergeant prevents crimes from happening. A good Sergeant does not induce crime to happen so he can get a RISE from an arrest. This Sergeant is so out of line.

The Napergate Man would not have 200 bloggers supporting him on the same thread if this Sergeant did what he was suppose to do.
In 3 months there are only 5 people that chase this Napergate Man from thread to thread to try to make him look not so good. Joe, T.B., d. bone, John Q. Public, and I can't think of the 5th. You guys have shown you know so much about police and their training, one has to believe you are police practing your blue code of silence that a cop can never do anything wrong. You guys really have no credibility on these blogs.

Look it how the Napergate Man fights for the justice of people like the Nicario 3 that were wrongfully convicted. When did any of you guys ever investigate a case of someone wrongfully convicted. Never! You rubber stamp the police just like the Naperville Sun does in all your words.

It is ironic that Host Ted wants the Napergate Man to file a complaint. The Napergate MAN did not ask the Nicarico 3 to issue a complaint with him about abuse. He just went to help them because he knew injustice was committed. He did not look for excuses not to help like Host Ted. He looked for help from Chief Teal to support him...not excuses!

Host Ted has always felt the Sergeant mishandled the situation from Day One and said so correctly. Over 200 or 95% of the bloggers have come out and agreed with him. The facts agree with Host Ted. Host Ted is just in a bad situation! If Chief David Dial was not a columnist for the Naperville Sun, it is my belief Host Ted would have acted different and much more bravely!

Rebecca –

I haven’t thrown in the towel. I actually posted three comments yesterday. If you bothered to read any of them, you’d see I was out of town on vacation for a while. Wishful thinking on your part, I’m sure.

I do, however, tire of trying to point out logic to the tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists that abound on this thread.

So the police make an arrest and leave a dog in the very capable hands of an adult (Bob) and they're somehow cruel? You’re kidding, right? The cops have nothing better to do than worry about a dog in an adult’s care?

Maybe Bob was cruel and not the cops. After all, he did drag poor little Abby to Dunkin Doughnuts instead of calling someone for a ride home. Surely he had to see how distressed the dog was, right? Oh, wait...Bob was only cruel to his designer shoes. My mistake.

By the way, what do you think the health department would say about a dog being inside a restaurant?

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Joe –

Your March 7th post at 6:53 AM hit the nail right on the head. There are too many people letting their emotions cloud the facts of this situation.

T.B.

Marybeth,

I quote to get further clarification from the person being quoted.

I find it hilarious that you say about me: "You make your opinion based on the most unlikely scenario occurring as opposed to the most likely scenario occurring."

I believe it is you who have the most unlikely scenerio going on here about a multi-agency conspiracy to discriminate against a man and wrongfully jail him for an unpaid tollway violation.

I, on the other hand, see nothing more than the application and enforcement of the law; not a specifically individually targeted conspiratorial witch-hunt.

To me, it sounds like some people have too much of an emotional attachment to the situation and are letting that cloud their otherwise better judgment. Emotions tend to do that. In fact, police pursuit training specifically deals with how to calm down before approaching a suspect so that the adrenalin rush that is present does not lead to bad judgments when dealing with the perp. Not controlling those emotions leads to incidents like Rodney King beating, etc. All of the emotion and calling people 'scum' and 'pricks' on here tells me someone is in the heat of the moment while posting and is not using their better judgment.

The other difference between us is that I don't look at this with an objective of slicing/dicing people to 'checkmate them' or 'win' an argument. Again, if that is your goal you are going to make some judgment calls that are not proper just to achieve your objective. If you notice, I have changed my opinion, accepted corrections from other posters, etc without calling them SCUM, Jerks, etc. Others certainly have not been accepting to facts contrary to their opinion. That has been a recurring theme in every thread that some of the usual suspects post in. They resort to personal attacks instead of facts when they feel emotionally hurt that someone points out something they said as not being true.

By the way, do you have that 'correct' time line I asked for earlier so we can do a side by side comparison or even a copy of the paperwork someone received when they were bonded out that morning?

Joe, I agree you are only you. The only person I have detected with certainty as being 2 characters in one was d.bone and Earned_every_dime_I_have. That one was just too obvious.

I think everyone else is just being themselves including yourself, Joe! But why make allegations you can not prove, Joe, just because someone accuses you wrongfully which is obvious.

The last time d.bone implied Ameena was Todd he was called out pretty easily and made a fool of himself. Now he further makes a fool of himself by deciding to be a DIME instead of an ALIEN!

I respect your opinions, Joe, but I want you to know I disagree with everything you say. You take your positions to the extremes that are not likely to happen. You make your opinion based on the most unlikely scenario occurring as opposed to the most likely scenario occurring.

I think that upsets people and turns them on you. The other thing that upset bloggers about you is the slicing and dicing you do to get out of being cornered and checkmated! You obviously don't like to be checkmated and when you are, I noticed you become very irrational and illogical! Have a good day Joe and a nice weekend!

PS. Sometimes, Joe, you do misquote people. I have always been wanting to ask you if you misquote intentionally or unintentionally?

Does anyone ever recall Joe saying a month or so ago, he knows little to nothing about Napergate or the Napergate Man!

Suddenly he has become an expert commentator. He is by far the number one poster on here. Probably has more posts than the next 5 or 10 posters combined.

And then he has the audacity to wonder why there is so much interest in Napergate when he is the no. 1 poster on this thread! Not in quality but in quantity. In quality he rates last!

Posted by: Cindy | March 6, 2008 09:18 PM

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Cindy,

You are so right about my NG knowledge just a couple of short months ago. Wow, I must say it's amazing. First I try to read about DF and a lawsuit against the city and low and behold, NAPERGATE comes up. Once I even wanted to blog about Mayor Pradel and a snow plow crash... guess what comes up? c'mon.. just call it out if you know it.. Yup, that's right.. NAPERGATE! Then, I wanted to read about the stupid library parking deck... uh huh, yup.. guess who again?! NAPERGATE!!!!! Hobson West... Oh Lordie, yet again, there it is: NAPERGATE! Naperville being the #1 speed trap.. RIGHT AGAIN! It's NAPERGATE!

Can ya believe it?!?! Astounding!!!!

I may have the most posts on this blog thread, but NAPERGATE has the most off-topic incursions of anything on this entire site thanks to a certain person.


Victoria,

I am only me on this blog. I do not have the need to make up 8 names and post conversations to myself in the same styles to pretend that there are more people who give a rat's butt about this case than there actually are.

It looks like Joe, d.bone. T.B., and this new Anonymous Guy have thrown in the towel. I think they are feeling stupid with their nonsensical defense of our police dept. that wronged the Napergate Man.

It is amazing how few supporters the NPD has in town. Maybe 5-10 outside of the police family. I guess when police want to have a blue code of silence, they will not get any admiration from the community.

Why would anyone respect a police department that extends massive professional courtesy to its members but not the slightest courtesy to residents so they can take their pets home before booking?

I think it would have been much less cruel to allow Abby to go to jail and stay with him in that jail cell, than having her undergo such an unnessary separation anxiety.

Before we take our vacation, we take our dog several times to whomever will be watching her to make sure there is proper acclamation time period before separation. It helps immensely! I can not imagine how my dog would feel if I just dropped her off at a stranger's house and disappeared for 2 weeks. She would think I was cruel. I am sure Abby thinks our police dept. is CRUEL! And they are! VERY CRUEL!!!

Caroline –

Have you ever arrested someone? Do you know how someone will react when arrested? Are you willing to bet your life on it?

Police officers do what they do because people can react very strangely when their freedom is being taken away, even if just briefly. You never know how some people will react, that is why cops always train for the worst-case scenario. Cops will ALWAYS handcuff an arrestee. Cops will ALWAYS follow procedures. Cops who get complacent, lazy, or sloppy are the ones who sometimes end up dead.

People who think someone should be bonded out in 15 minutes are insane or don’t know what a bureaucracy we live in. When’s the last time you did anything with the government that was quick, easy, or efficient?

Stop the Monday morning quarterbacking.

T.B.

This is really not about a misdemeanor arrest. It has really become about a police dept that is afraid to communicate with its residents.

Any other police dept. would have had a PRESS CONFERENCE and explained its position.

Very unusual!

Maybe they are so deep in quicksand they have no position, no defense and nothing to say for fear of incriminating themselves!

“Abuse of Discretion”

This is an interesting term floating about this thread now. So a NPD officer has discretion...does that mean he has to use it? Discretion means he can let someone go, or he can arrest them immediately.

By saying “Abuse of Discretion”, what you really mean is the officer had a choice and did not do as you would have liked him to do.

Our strategy needs to be to keep bashing the NPD until they come out. Hopefully we can ruin their reputation by being relentless for as long as Host Ted is willing to host us.

There is a point where almost any orgaization will come out and defend itself. We just keep have to increase the heat until it becomes unbearable!

At that point they will either speak to us or jump out of their windows due to the extreme heat overtaking that Taj Mahal Building. I suspect they will speak to us before allowing themselves to burn in the blazing fire storm we are creating!

Let us keep this heat up as long as Host Ted allows us to! Many thanks to our Host!

With 61,000 views per week and exponentially growth, anyone who believes NPD police officers are not part of the 61,000 viewers was probably born on Mars with d. bone!

Does anyone ever recall Joe saying a month or so ago, he knows little to nothing about Napergate or the Napergate Man!

Suddenly he has become an expert commentator. He is by far the number one poster on here. Probably has more posts than the next 5 or 10 posters combined.

And then he has the audacity to wonder why there is so much interest in Napergate when he is the no. 1 poster on this thread! Not in quality but in quantity. In quality he rates last!

I liked your insightful post, ALLEN! Most of your points were well made. I am sorry your response from Ted was a copy and paste. That is almost insulting that anyone would get such a response.

Anonymous sounds like Joe in disguise! What idiotic comments he is making! He thinks this is all a silly joke! So stupid and foolish he can't even make up a name! I guess fools don't want to be known so they can act foolish without being held accountable!

Hello Anonymous,
You are making yourself look like a fool by not understanding the meaning of ABUSE OF DISCRETION.

The cop should have let him take his dog home and turn himself in voluntarily for booking. What flight risk did he pose? He owns a plaza, liquor store and home in Naperville. He has family! He has some nice cars! I am sure he is going to take the next plane out of the country to avoid paying a .40 cent toll(s) and some penalties.

You are a fool for thinking he poses a flight risk and needs to be handcuffed and jailed!!! That is nothing more than a dumb cop acting idiotic! That Sergeant is the one who needs to be jailed! His name is Greg Bell and he will never ever have my respect again! He must have low self esteem to be playing these filthy games on the streets of our town!

Anonymous,
A lawyer I am not. But I have been booked for suspended licenses before both for emission failures and tolls. I was I-Bonded once and had to come up with cash the other time.

I was not handcuffed or thrown in jail for 4 hours.

The man had a 100 bucks on him. There are dozens of cops working weekend nights. Could not one cop come in to the station and speed his booking and release. Why was that simple action not taken, Anonymous?

Jailing somebody in this manner when he could have been released in 15-30 minutes is ludicrous! It is unfair! It is unjust! It is a violation of due process! Officers do have discretion. He had a dog so why not give him the discretion to go home and turn himself in voluntarily. They knew he was a peaceful man who had never been involved in any violence his entire life. Many hard core criminals are allowed to turn themselves in voluntarily every day. Some by themselves and some with their lawyers tagging along.

The bottom line is the cops were very heavy handed with the Napergate Man that evening. Uncalled for!!

Charles, not sure what you do but a lawyer you are not. Study law, and know what your talking about prior to making yourself look like a fool. Pretty simple. (I give you a lot of credit for at least keeping your theory to under one page.) Can you please explain what jailing without due process means? I would like to hear the definition.

This reminds me of the pool hall incident of a year ago where some cops walked in and started a fight with some business men playing pool. Apparently one of the cop's parents passed away and he was looking for trouble to let off some steam since he was very upset.

In this case we don't know what bothered or upset the NPD cops, but they were looking for trouble and picked on 2 adult men walking a lovely white dog along the riverwalk/downtown area and minding their own business.

The cops wanted trouble that night. They knew the Napergate Man's license was suspeneded. They knew he did not know! They wanted him to drive so they could sc*ew around with him even though they could have easily asked him not to drive and prevented a minor violation from occurring! These cops had to be angry they could not get the Napergate Man agitated enough to swing at them. They had a lot of cops on the scene because they were hoping to instigate the Napergate Man and Bob into causing some kind of trouble such as resisting arrest or mouthing off!

I commend the Napergate Man's friend Bob for never opening his mouth and giving the NPD the ammunition they were looking for to get some fireworks going that night! The Napergate Man and Bob handled it just right by being passive despite the fact that Abby was under much anxiety, stress and very emotional. I have never seen a police dept. in my life that is so insensitive to the feelings of a dog/puppy!

If you read this thread carefully the Napergatians are trying to prove the case based on findings of fact and law.

Joe and his handful of bashers are constantly attacking the credibility of messengers providing the facts and time lines.

This usually means there is no defense against the allegations made against the police dept. Open and closed case if you ask me!

I think this case is rather simple. The Naperville Police Deptartment can not respond becasue it is guilty of selective enforcement, no probable cause to stop a vehicle, abuse of discretion and jailing without due process.

This pretty much summarizes the whole case. The case is so strong against the NPD that the spokespersons of the the NPD are terrified to speak! Pretty obvious to me what is going on!

I think that the police lied and didnt arrest him at all. They put him under hypnosis and got all the information they have been dying to get. They they woke him up, told him he was arrested and sent him away.

They actually didnt stop him either. They were able to create a movie set of downtown Naperville and made 5-10 witnesses or whatever the number is now, really believe that he was driving and got arrested. They made it look really good by being mean to him because thats what they do you know.

Man, this story is BIG. I knew that all this could happen. Like we really landed on the moon, are you kidding me.

TfP,

Maybe someone can come up with HIS copy of the paperwork and check out the times on there and compare them. Not having been through the actual arrest/booking process myself I wouldn't know first hand, but I would think that you would leave with paperwork similar to the report that at least has the date/time/place, offense you are charged with, instructions on how to plead guilty, fight it, appear in court, etc along with a time/date stamped receipt of some sort that says you posted bond.

Where is that documentation? Let's compare the two and see what the difference in time really is that is claimed to be wrong on the NPD report.

According to the report:

218 am he was arrested
4:oo am released.

WHOAAA, that was a looooooooong time in jail.

Oh I know, they lied, no way his dog said it was 5am ect.

No matter what the report says Joe, its lies lies lies. Put foil on your windows, they are listening right now to everything we are saying.

Why try and discuss it you know the 3-4 page conspiracy non-sense is coming... Will have to wait to another amazine Randy report.

I know I cant wait

Can someone post a specific timeline of when they believe the evening's events actually transpired so people can do a side by side comparison of the police report and what someone else claims it really was.

No discussion or opinions in it please, just quantify the actual discrepancies without all of the fluff.

When you know something was exactly HH:MM state so. When you believe it's an approximate, state that too.


Response from host:

The starting point for any such story would have to be a person making a complaint. If anyone would like to go on the record with a specific example of what they believe is a recent example of abuse of discretion by a member of the Naperville Police Department, and has filed a formal complaint with the department that generates a public document to which would could initiate an investigation, we would be happy to talk to that person and go from there. Meanwhile, we are not interested in pursuing a story about a single incident that happened 18 months ago when the subject involved in the arrest that allegedly entailed abuse of discretion apparently has no interest in pursuing the matter.

Posted by: McFarland | March 6, 2008 01:31 PM

Host Ted,
It seems to me you are wimping out and afraid to cover this story after your bloggers laid out the case for you on a silver platter. You seem afraid to challenge the Police Chief! You seem afraid to ruffle any feathers in City Hall!

You may not have to do any of the above. Your bloggers are ruffling all the feathers for you. Just keep builing your thread up to 200,000 views per week and the NPD will fall by itself. Watch and see!!! All you need to do is be a good HOST! And I must say you are being an excellent Host by allowing this massive FREEDOM of EXPRESSION we have never seen in the history of Naperville. Kudos to you, Ted! No need to make the call to the NPD. They are reading this material and will be calling you soon!

Great memory and post, Bob! I see why Host Ted once called you amazing. You are amazing to come on and point out that there are 12 witnesses when all of us bloggers thought there was only 5. It just shows you how the people invovled know so much more than us bloggers who think we know it all.

I do believe the Naperville Sun should challenge this apparently fabricated police report. The Sun requested it. No one has seen it till last week. It is recent. It is not an old story. We JUST found out this police report was fabricated. It is a recent story that needs to be coverered. It is the watchdog type of story we have been wanting from the Naperville Sun for a long long time.

We finally shattered the credibility of the NPD right here on Ted's Blogs!

Randy and Bob,
Great posts! After reading your posts I no longer believe a word coming out of the NPD! They have lost all credibility with me! Soon they will lose all credibility with not only the citizens but also the court system.

Who is ever going to trust a Naperville Police Report again?

Host Ted and Moderator Jim,

I have seen a weakening in your positions to take on City Hall and the NPD about issues that concern the citizens like the Napergate Case. I think Abuse of Discretion is an issue we are all concerned about and you seem to want to ignore it because it involves the Napergate Man...just like the old Naperville Sun!

Response from host:

In order to pursue a story about abuse of discretion by Naperville police, the starting point for any such story would have to be a person making a complaint. If anyone would like to go on the record with a specific example of what they believe is a recent example of abuse of discretion by a member of the Naperville Police Department, and has filed a formal complaint with the department that generates a public document to which would could initiate an investigation, we would be happy to talk to that person and go from there. Meanwhile, we are not interested in pursuing a story about a single incident that happened 18 months ago when the subject involved in the arrest that allegedly entailed abuse of discretion apparently has no interest in pursuing the matter.

Joe, Host Ted and Moderator Jim,
I think Marybeth thinks a misdemeanor is a big deal but if you look at what she is saying in context, what she is really saying is "Ted, if you don't think a misdemeanor is a big deal, than you should be covering the {ABUSE of DISCRETION} component of this case."

It is really Ted who does not think this is a big deal and not even worthy of coverage in the police blog sections of the Naperville Sun. Since I do subscribe to the Naperville Sun, he is a man of his word. He did not cover it in the police blog section of the Naperville Sun at the time.

I see a real pattern in the old and the new Naperville Sun of not covering anything Napergate or the Napergate Man in these news print editions. They missed the boat 3 times on covering the Napergate Man. Either the paper is not on the ball or it is under orders by City Hall not to cover the Napergate Man.

I may be crazy! But I believe City Hall has ordered the Naperville Sun not to do an investigation into the Napergate Man case and it's honoring the wishes of City Hall.

Host Ted started gun ho with this story. Moderator Jim wanted more Napergate stories in the print edition. One senses massive pressure was put on them from City Hall as their tune has suddenly changed and started calling this misdemeanor story too insignificant to cover.(Again Joe, it is Host Ted who thinks a misdemeanor is not a big deal not worth covering. I actually agree with you Joe that it is a BIG DEAL and worth covering as you can spend 364 days in jail for a misdemeanor...plus we have a serious abuse of discretion to go along with his serious misdemeanor as Joe has correctly pointed out but Host Ted feels can't make the fine print of the police blog section of the print edition)

The Napergate Story is one of the top 2 stories on Ted's threads. It generates the second most interest after District 204 threads. What makes this Napergate Story so remarkable is it has so much interest despite a new boycott imposed on the Print Edition of the Naperville Sun against covering it by Chief David Dial who writes a column for the Naperville Sun and obviously has massive influence on Jim and Ted. It seems like they are intimidated by Chief David Dial especially since he writes for them and they must occasionally see him face to face. It is ludicrous that a newspaper would have the Chief of Police as a columnist while the newspaper is suppose to be a WATCHDOG on his department. That is why you guys are so soft and will be losing your subcribers hourly in the near future.

If this Napergate Man arrest got one story in the print edition, this blog would have over a 1000 posters both Napergatian and Napervillian.

One historical story about the Napergate Man in the Naperville Sun a couple of months ago increased the bloggers on the Napergate Threads by 8 fold. There were 2 old Napergate Threads that only averaged 30 posters before that front page article. Now we are seeing 250 plus posters.

It really shows the Naperville Print edition does remain powerful even after the decline since the Napergate Era of 50% of it subscribers. It shows when the Naperville Sun ties its blogs to its print edition it can increase both. But of course they have to be covering stories of interest. The Piano Man story got lots of print coverage but no one was interested as it was probably just a business failure and readers did not believe it was an all out scam.
The Napergate Man arrest got zero coverage but readers and bloggers are very interested and decided to investigate the story for themselves and cover it for themselves. Hint Mr. Ted and Mr. Jim you guys are not in touch with your community and have no pulse on it. Even Maryann has a better pulse on what may interest Napervillians than Jim and Ted. If you study this lady she has made so many right calls on how threads will do in advance. She told us no one will archive on dead Napergate threads that have been archived. She was right! No one has posted on them in weeks. I doubt anyone listened to her. I just think she understands Ted's blogs better than Ted who stated bloggers will continue to post like nothing happened! Sorry Ted, but Maryann was right and you were wrong!

The Naperville Sun is costing itself a bonanza in circulation numbers by imposing a censorship on the Napergate Man in the print edition. According to Host Ted he is not even worthy of mention in the police blog section of the Naperville Sun. That is laughable Ted since he is a very famous person in this town due to his accomplishments such as his Napergate Series, numerous victories over City Hall, and his National KYLIX AWARD for being the most responsible liquor retailer in the USA. Only one to have ever won this award!(Ameena has uncovered so many accomplishments most of us did not know about and I could never begin to list) Yes, Ted, and you treat him like a nobody! There is little doubt this guy is a Naperville Hero who is being kept masked not by himself, but by the Naperville Sun and City Officials!

Why Host Ted and Moderator Jim think it is so important to appease City Officials is beyond me? They have lost half their circulation to City Officials. Are city officials paying them for this huge decline they are encountering because they are not allowed to cover NAPERGATE TYPE ISSUES that concern residents.

The Naperville Sun has admitted it is on a tight budget. If they had 33,000 circulation and can collect double the subscription fees and double the advertising rates they would not be on a tight budget and could even find a way to devote an hour here or there for investigative reporting.

Host Ted and Moderator Jim stated a while back they are willing to take on City Hall? It seemed like it was all talk! When action time came I see nothing but excuses! An embellished police report and they could care less!

I spent a week reading these threads and those in the archives. I like what I see on these threads. The Citizen Journalists are doing 10 times the job the Sun Journalists are performing. I am impressed with the Citizen Journalist! Very impressed!

I will continue reading these threads and most probably cancel my subscription until the Naperville Sun starts covering the town the way it is suppose to be covered. Not the way City Officials want it to be covered!

If they continue on their disastrous path of all talk and no action, in 2 years we will be looking at under 10k in circulation. Maybe that will be the wake up call Jim and Ted need since they are unable to smell the brewing coffee while it is brewing!

Response from host:

In order to pursue a story about abuse of discretion by Naperville police, the starting point for any such story would have to be a person making a complaint. If anyone would like to go on the record with a specific example of what they believe is a recent example of abuse of discretion by a member of the Naperville Police Department, and has filed a formal complaint with the department that generates a public document to which would could initiate an investigation, we would be happy to talk to that person and go from there. Meanwhile, we are not interested in pursuing a story about a single incident that happened 18 months ago when the subject involved in the arrest that allegedly entailed abuse of discretion apparently has no interest in pursuing the matter.

Ted, Have you ever seen something this pathetic in your life? You cant say it any other way to these whinners. No matter what you say, they will twist it to fit there agenda.

So, of course the chief of police or anyone from the police department is not going to give it a second glance or an opinion. The Sun should close this blog as no one can be right if they are not writting full page blogs about something they were not apart of, or affected by it.

Now, we should be due for some full page blogs from Mariyln, Randy or Taxpayer saying the same thing over and over...

Thanks again to Joe and T.B. and TED for having an opinion not fueled by an agenda which is to smear the police at any cost. Maybe there will be lawsuits filed against some people in here for slander?

The drama continues

Randy,
Thanks for putting things in perspective for us. It just seems like the Napergate Man is being unfairly bashed as hating anything establishment. You seem to prove all that is nonsense for us. It is always good to hear from people who actually know the Napergate Man instead of people who speculate in him as if he was a stock or commodity.

I have done business with this gentleman and I can not think of a more polite, respectful, ethical or business savvy client. The people that are bashing him simply don't know him. He is a man of impeccable character and reputation. Known him personally for over 10 years!

Response from host:

We've said we agree the old Sun should have covered the original Napergate cases 10 and 15 years ago, and that we can't change the past. We don't think the case from 18 months ago about a misdemeanor arrest for someone who was guilty of driving on a suspended license warrants any coverage, unless the subject of that arrest should file a formal complaint with the NPD or a lawsuit alleging a violation of his rights.

Posted by: Marybeth | March 6, 2008 11:18 AM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Host Ted,
I think the reason you and most of the bloggers are not on the same page is because you are seeing this case as a simple case of driving on a suspended license.

90% of the bloggers are seeing it as an ABUSE OF DISCRETION case. The Sgt. acted as judge, juror, prosecutor, and defense attorney by jailing him for a full night without giving him due process. He had no right under our constitution to jail him for that length of time since his cash bail money was in his pocket.

From reading these blogs it appears to me, the Sgt. and his cronies embellished both the arrest and release time to make it appear he was only there for less than 2 hours. I think this is a story in itself, and it seems like you are in denial Host Ted.

I can't believe every reporter in the Naperville Sun is so busy that no one there can call the police dept. to ask them if there was only one booking officer that night instead of 2, because one was injured in a motorcycle accident. A cop injured in a motorcycle accident usually makes the newspapers. Do your achrives show any civilian or sworn officer of the NPD injured in a motorcycle accident around that time? Do you in the Sun cover serious injuries to cops on motorcycles? What do you guys cover in that print edition? I am not a subscriber so I am clueless! Sorry!

You felt that Mike and Bob were credible. They both mentioned the delay was caused by a motorcycle accident. Maybe if one Sun reporter would shorten his lunch hour by 5 minutes for one day and make one short phone call, we can find out if in fact the problem was due to an injury of a a second booking officer and not deliberate. Maybe the Sun reporter does not need to shorten the lunch hour and can borrow a cell phone and make it on the way to or from lunch. Is that asking a lot of our newpaper and its reporters? How busy could you guys possibly be there? I thought Naperville was almost a crime free town because of Chief Dial? At least you don't have to devote so much manpoer to cover crime as other cities do.

But if we such a free crime city, why the h*ll does it take 5 hours to book a civilian! How many criminals were in line before him awaiting this booking? Does this sound like a crime free city with a line of criminals 5 hours long when most people are sleeping! Is Police Chief Dial giving us the true statistics regarding crime in Naperville? Something just does not add up here!

If there was this serious motorcycle accident involving a booking cop, his jailing all night long might become more understandable. If it is not the case, we may have a bunch of pathological liars and embellishers running our police dept.

If you don't think this is story, Host Ted, than in my opinion your judgment is imparied from working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, since you started your thread site a year ago! I know you don't realise your judgment has been impaired from being "work drunk," but the rest of us do. And we do feel bad for you!

An alcoholic also does not know his judgment is impaired and will be in denial till he sobers up. I guess we are just going to have to wait until Moderator Jim understands no one can work 112 hours a week and function properly. It is inhumane for Moderator Jim to work work you as many hours as you do, and we along with you are paying the price since we are not able to communicate with you or get you to undertand our viewpoints and points!

Response from host:

The starting point for any such story would have to be a person making a complaint. If anyone would like to go on the record with a specific example of what they believe is a recent example of abuse of discretion by a member of the Naperville Police Department, and has filed a formal complaint with the department that generates a public document to which would could initiate an investigation, we would be happy to talk to that person and go from there. Meanwhile, we are not interested in pursuing a story about a single incident that happened 18 months ago when the subject involved in the arrest that allegedly entailed abuse of discretion apparently has no interest in pursuing the matter.

"The Napergate Man is going to nail the police dept. again and it is going to cost us taxpayers once again."

Do you have inside information that the Napergate Man is taking action in this case? Because so far, on the face of it, it seems like he just wants to put the whole affair behind him.

Marybeth –

“The Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force labeled certain segments of our police dept. as having been infiltrated by facsists. Not the bloggers. They are just repeating information contained in a thorough 500 page report summarizing an investigation of the NPD.”

Just because some bloggers weren’t the first to use the word “fascist”, that does not absolve them of any responsibility for using such an inflammatory word.

**********

Randy (March 6 at 10:19 AM) –

You claim that the cops know Mr Esmail well (“very very very well” were your words), know his car well, and should have stopped Mr Esmail from driving that night. To have stopped him from driving, you must also believe the cops all knew in advance that his license was suspended.

Based on what you believed happened that night, once Mr Esmail got in the car and drove away there was probable cause to stop him because the cops then witnessed a crime being committed. Your own reasoning proves that the traffic stop was valid.

Though the police computers undoubtedly have more information than is available to the general public, I haven’t read anything to suggest that the cops would know why Mr Esmail’s driver’s license was suspended. They may know the license was suspended, but not necessarily why.

But even if they did know which car caused the suspension, it is not the police department’s job to decide whether a license suspension is valid. The cops are to act on the information they have and are not finders of fact--only a judge or jury can determine the facts.

T.B.

Marybeth, "A misdemeanor is no big deal."

A Class A Misdemeanor in IL can have as a penalty up to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine.

That is no big deal?

Look at this chart with them ranked in order. It sits just below a Class 4 felony in the rankings.

http://www.callyourlawyers.com/mobile/penaltieschart.html

Host Ted/ Moderator Jim,

I don't see how you can say this latest Napergate case as not worthy of mention in the police blog section of the Naperville Sun.

I am sure his first case in the 80s was not worthy of mention in your police blog section initially, but the Supreme Court took it and ruled on it. They accused the City of Naperville of ABUSE of Discretion.

I am sure his second case of that infamous Korbel bottle of the 90s was not worthy of mention in your police blog section initially, either! But somehow the Appellant Courts of both the STATE and FEDERAL govts. considered it worthy and came up with damning rulings against the city and police.

The Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force labeled certain segments of our police dept. as having been infiltrated by facsists. Not the bloggers. They are just repeating information contained in a thorough 500 page report summarizing an investigation of the NPD.

ATT is the one that accused the NPD of discriminating worse than any other organization. Again the bloggers are only repeating the study made by ATT and documented in a Napergate Ad that was vetted by Sun officials and attorneys for accuracy before it was published

In summary, the majority of people on this thread have been right on target. They are spelling the facts and conclusions of so many legitimate corporations, task forces, state and federal courts!

I see all this as extremely powerful! I am suprised the Naperville Sun does not take all these reports against our Police Dept. more seriously and at least demand a CLEANSING OF SORTS!

It seems like the Sun initially missed the boat on those first 2 NAPERGATE CASES! Now the boat is sailing without the Sun for a third time.

I think what the Naperville Sun does not understand about these cases is that they are all ABUSE OF DISCRETION cases and are justice system takes them extremely seriously.

A misdemeanor is no big deal. But if a cop lies or abuses his discretion as in the DF or NG cases, they become big deals and very costly to the taxpayer!

Response from host:

We've said we agree the old Sun should have covered the original Napergate cases 10 and 15 years ago, and that we can't change the past. We don't think the case from 18 months ago about a misdemeanor arrest for someone who was guilty of driving on a suspended license warrants any coverage, unless the subject of that arrest should file a formal complaint with the NPD or a lawsuit alleging a violation of his rights.

As has always been the case, the Napergate Man always seems to come up with the proof he needs. He has done it over and over again. I don't know why the City messes around with this guy. The city will not be successful in branding 12 witnesses liars.

They need to investigate Sgt. Greg Bell immediately. If they don't, this case will escalate into the regional media. The Napergate Man should not have to tell Chief Dial to investigate. Chief Dial needs to be a leader and open an immediate investigation when over 200 bloggers have such passionate concerns. And it really appears the number of citizens upset are growing daily despite 0 publicity in the print edtition! This is not a typcial case as Host Ted would like us to believe. It has very serious underlying currents that will prove Host Ted very wrong in due time!

The Napergate Man is going to nail the police dept. again and it is going to cost us taxpayers once again. When does it end? How much is the incompetence of the NPD going to raise my real estate tax bill this time? If my tax bill goes up one penny because of this case or the Fursteanau case, I will also be calling for Chief Dial's resignation!

Bob,

The documentation you are providing is much better than all the vile comments of so many bloggers. Some of these bloggers are underestimating the intelligence of Napervillians to arrive at their own determinations and conclusions based on the detailed facts of the case such as 12 witnesses that can attest that the time on the police report was most likely embellished to defray bad publicity against the NPD for jailing him all night long!

I also would like to know if another booking officer was injured in a motorcycle accident that evening or if the booking officer was lying? Was no substitute available in a 300 person force!

I think there is a false perception being portrayed on these threads that the the Napergate Man hates police and hates the establishment. Both are untrue!

When I knew Basim he adored former Chief of Police Jim Teal. They were very close in many ways.

1. Chief Teal had a company named Odd Jobbers that pretty much took care of the Napergate Man's Plaza as far as maintenance and landscaping. They did a great job! Chief Teal's daughter Angie was in charge of landscaping and was marvelous.

2. Chief Teal and Basim were very interested in vindicating the wrongfully accused in the Nicarico case long before this battle reached Eric Zorn of the Chicago Tribune. Chief Teal and Basim jointly wrote all the Napergate ads and other ads related to the Nicarico case. I would be in Basim's apartment while he would be going over those sections with the former Chief on the phone to make sure they were accurate. They were both instrumental in persuading Eric Zorn to look into this case!

3. When an employee of Basim spaced out one day and made 2 mistakes with minors in one hour, Chief Teal went batting for him with former Mayor Margaret Price. He recommended a 3 day closing. Basim accepted the Chief's proposal. Price did not! She wanted revocation and did in fact revoke his license as we all know, resulting in a huge expense to taxpayers and a 4 year trial in which the Supreme Court reversed the revocation accusing the former Mayor of ABUSING HER DISCRETION! Needless to say Basim adored Chief Teal. He considered him a good friend. He was Establishment but a very good man.

Currently Basim adores Mayor George Pradel. I have reason to believe the relationship is mutual. Mayor Pradel is establishment. So this case is not about establishment vs. non-establishment. It is about good people vs. bad people. It is about good cops vs bad cops. It is about good Mayors vs. bad Mayors. Basim respects good people whether they are establishment or non-establishment. The Honrable Mayor Geroge Pradel respects good people whether they are establishment or Napergatians. Mayor Pradel has treated Basim more than fairly from the first day he was in office and always has. Basim is very gracious to this Mayor after having to deal with 3 former Mayors who were TRASH!

This latest incident by Sgt. Greg Bell is an isolated incident by a Sgt. who CONSPIRED with his officers to cause trouble for BASIM that night. Basim drives downtown almost every night. The cops downtown know him very very very well. They know his vehicles very very very well. There was no coincidence that evening. It was all planned and orchestrated from the minute he parked his car.

Only a stupid Sgt. would not be able to tell from Basim's actions and reactions that he did not know he was suspended. The Sgt. determined before hand cuffing and jailing Basim it was a tollway violation. He knew it was not a car he drove. He knew he knew nothing about these toll violations. Police computers have information not obtainable elsewhere about which car committed the violation thru the license plate on the police computer.

I would agree that once the Sgt. decided to stop him for no reason and with no PROBABLE CAUSE, Basim could not drive anymore due to the suspension. But what happened after the stop was uncalled for. It was policemen being bad policemen abusing civilians and a dog for the fun of it....to get their RISE! This Sgt.wanted this fiasco to develop. He watched Basim get in the car and followed in pursuit IMMEDIATELY!

If Sgt. Greg Bell was a decent human being he would have approached Basim as he was getting in the H2 Hummer 10 feet away from him and advised him to let Bob drive tonight and take care of your daughter's toll violations first thing Monday morning. That is what a decent cop would do. Sgt. Bell is not a decent cop! He should be terminated for knowingly harassing and hasseling an outstanding citizen!

Chief David Dial is getting all this heat for one reason. He is responsible for the irrational and unprofessional behavior of SGT. GREG BELL and his crew and has done nothing. By doing nothing he is stating "I TOLERATE THIS EXTREME BEHAVIOR."

I’m back from a nice vacation on a warm beach and am surprised but what I am reading here. I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am nonetheless.

I’m not on the side of those against the NPD in this instance; however, that does not mean I am whole-heartedly for the NPD so save the ink on that subject. I am not an Establishment person (and no, I do not work for the city), I just happen to think that this is a big non-issue being blown out of proportion by everyone except the one directly affected by the situation.

In my opinion, those writing against the NPD in this thread appear to be 1) tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists, 2) people who seem to really hate the very police who keep them safe, or 3) both.

Elizabeth called the NPD “PRICKS”, “SCUM”, and “COWARDS” while many others continue to use the word “fascist” all too freely. Are you really meaning to compare the NPD to the Gestapo, KGB, or other authoritarian organization? Is this how you really feel about the NPD? If you feel so strongly about the actions of the NPD, why have you not come forward at a city council meeting? What have you done to improve your city and police force?

I don’t know what to think of those calling the NPD fascists, cowards, or scum; but I think they are mislead or uninformed. All of this over a traffic stop that the “victim” refuses to discuss in public or complain about to the city or the Sun? You have to be kidding.

**********

Cindy (from long ago) –

I have no interest in the piano man thread because I don’t play or buy pianos. After reading the Sun’s article, I’m not convinced whether this is a criminal or civil matter. Every business with bad practices or a bankrupt business plan is not worthy of discussion. If so, we’d never talk about anything else. My apologies for going out of town for a while…I guess I should have cleared that with you first, huh?

**********

Ted –

You put up a good fight against the zealots, but it’s a lost cause. You seem to have been forced to be very repetitive. Maybe you should come up with a “standard” response to the many calls to keep the Napergate Man on the main page despite his refusal to discuss his own situation, accept the Napergatian writings here as fact and take them to press, or the many misguided calls for the Sun to create (rather than report) the news.

By the way, why was Elizabeth’s March 5 7:12 PM post even published? I doubt I would have my post published if I referred to another blogger as “SCUM, SCUM, SCUM!!! PRICKS, PRICKS, PRICKS!!!” Why is there a difference when referring to the NPD? I think your standards are slipping a bit. Or were you thinking that she lacked credibility since she claims to know with “100% CERTAINTY” what the arresting officers were thinking that night all those months ago? Just wondering.

Other than that, keep up the good work.

T.B.

Dear Bloggers,

I just wanted to step in and say all this name calling of the NPD is really counterproductive. I know there is frustration, but name calling is not the way to deal with the frustration.

One thing Basim taught me is if you stick with the actual facts you will not only win court battles but public opinion. I would like you all to stop the name calling and focus on the facts. I felt a need to step in since Ameena who always calmed everyone down unfortunately has not been around for a while.

The one fact I would like to reiterate today is Basim arrived at Dunkin Donuts shortly before 6am. I was watching the clock all night as I was tired and wanted to get home. I was stuck with Abby so I was between a rock and a hard place...literally stuck in a designated corner by the night crew of Dunkin!

There are more than 5 witnesses to this 4am time being inaccurate. The night crew at Dunkin Donuts left to go home around 530am. A very large day crew came in gradually and saw me with Abby that night. The night crew OK'd for us to stay with the day crew that was rather large. I believe the day crew who saw me was between 6-8 people with more employees arriving as the place got busier.

So I believe the witnesses as far as correct time include Basim, Mike, the Husband and Wife night crew who made the donuts plus one clerk who serviced customers all night long, about 6 morning employees, and Basim. That is about 12 people who know that Basim arrived at 6am or later than 5:30 am as the 3 person night crew left at that time and never saw Basim arrive.

Of course none of us saw what time Basim exited the NPD jail doors. But one thing for certain is Basim was coming to get his dog without making any stops in between. To believe the NPD police report, you would have to believe Mike and Basim went and had breakfast at Denny's while standing Abby and I up. I have known Basim for 30 years and he would never do such a thing.

His love for Abby is so great, that I am positive he rushed to her. I am sure he was telling Mike to go as fast as possible as he saw the state Abby was in when he was handcuffed and separated from her.

I did ask Basim why it took so long. He told me the female booking clerk told him her partner was injured in a motorcycle accident causing this 4 or 5 hour booking delay while Basim waited in a small square jail cell. I believed that reason at the time. I no longer believe that reason after seeing the embellishment of the police report with that 4am departure time which I have little doubt is false.

It was daylight when Basim finally arrived at Dunkin Donuts! It is very dark in the summer at 4am or 415 am if you want to give Mike and Basim 15 minutes to make it from the police station. I believe it is only a 5 or 6 minute drive at the most.

I wish someone could find out if the partner of the booker was in fact in a motorcycle accident. If there was no such accident, that would just indicate another falsehood told to Basim that fateful evening as an excuse to jail him for the night. It would go to the credibility of the NPD which is more important than all the cuss words you bloggers are using unnecessarily.

If Basim used these words you are all using, do you think he could have won one single case against City Hall or in a Courtroom? I really doubt it! If he used those words in court the Judge would have made sure he lost to teach him a lesson! Thankfully he used the right words. Of course he had attorneys advising him so he had a little edge over you/us bloggers. But really, I would like to see you guys try a bit harder to change your language.

Exposing their lack of credibility is fair game! I saw it happening on this thread and felt a need to blog regarding this credibility issue!

Sorry to cut this short but I have to run to the health club before it closes to let out some steam in a different way.

And special thanks to Host Ted and Moderator Jim for allowing me to blog again.

Cynthia, my theory above answers each question except for #4. From what I've read over and over someone was present to take custody of the dog and did because I did not hear anyone mention having Animal Control come out and take custody of the dog. I'm sure if that happened we'd have heard about it.

Why do you or Melissa think my post to QQ and to Amy about how it could have happened, establishing probable cause, is improbable and illegal?

If the vehicle was stolen and was parked right under the nose of 12 officers (as many said were present that night) and the thief drove away right out from under them I would imagine we would be hearing about how utterly incompetent our police are to have let a thief park right next to them and drive away without anyone even bothering to check if it was a stolen vehicle.

Now, tell me if that happened and the NG man's Hummer was stolen and the thief was the one driving.. tell me how no one here would be bad mouthing the police about being bumbling bafoons and letting a thief take off with another man's vehicle right under 12 of their noses. I'm sure we'd be hearing about how they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IT WAS STOLEN BY CHECKING THEIR COMPUTERS!!!!! Well, guess what, the computers tell them lots of things. They tell them when it's reported stolen and it tells them if their tags are proper, if the plates are even on the right vehicle (per description) and what the status of the registered owner is and what his prior arrest record is. They would even say if the man parked near the NG's vehicle was wanted in Cicero for Armed Robbery or Murder or has a history of Gang Violence and need to find him ASAP for the safety of all of the citizens around downtown.

The door swings both ways.

Elizabeth,
I did not think anyone could out do Marilyn but I guess you out did her. I understand your sense of frustration.

I believe every police officer is reading Ted's Threads and can not let off steam. So they are all suffering inside since Chief Dial does not allow them to comment or talk to the media and they have to deal with it all internally. Let them suffer and feel the pain the Napergate Man felt that night.

Of course the police officers involved were PRICKS and SCUM BAGs that fateful evening. We should never show them respect. Pretty soon every Napervillian will know who Greg Bell is and his character will be known. That Naperville Sun did us a great service. They got us the name of the Sergeant who caused all this trouble. If the Napergate Man's name is going to be dragged thru the mud for doing nothing wrong, Greg Bell's name should be dragged thru the mud for ABUSING HIS DISCRETION!

Amy,

How do you know they tag was not run while no one was in the vehicle, while it was parked and there was NO WAY to know who it belonged to unless it was run?

Did he have a "I'm a Napergatian so you better not run my tag or my fan club will cry discrimination and type it in ALL CAPS on the Sun Blog!!!" bumper sticker on it?

Please describe how running a tag# on a parked unoccupied vehicle is discrimination because every dictionary I have does not have a definition that remotely fits.

Great points Amy...Now, when you have any proof at all about that let us know.

You can make any statement you want and lie all day long on these blogs. This is the 1st allegation only a certain race was being run by the police, man that was the nail in the coffin and you figured it out (NOT).

Now go make up some more stuff Amy.

Cynthia,

Here is Chief Dial's e-mail address: diald@naperville.il.us. I got it off of the City of Naperville's website. Why don't you e-mail those questions to him yourself?

-JQP

Marilyn is highly respected? For what, being anti-government and being able to post her opinion. She has posted some of the most pathetic stuff I have ever read. She needs to take the police test since she knows the law so much (not) and can make key decisions at the drop of a hat. She should offer her services so when the police have a question about arresting someone they can get her opinion first.

And all criminals think the cops are pricks. DUH

Great Post, Elizabeth!

Get some rest, Host Ted! You are doing a great job allowing this forum to be free of any CENSORSHIP. It is very obvious from Elizabeth's post you are not editing or censoring and I respect you very much for your BRAVERY in letting the bloggers vent out this massive steam building up!

Elizabeth,
I understand your frustration with the cops and the bloggers who are twisting realities on this thread.

It seems like you let everyone have it when you unloaded your steam. Kudos to you girl! I agree with you 100%. I may not have the courage to say all the words you said but I don't have to since you said them for me and many others.

I can see how this leaped from the Napergate Man to the Police Chief. Very easy to see how! The Chief is the boss and is sanctioning this despicable behavior. If he was not sanctioning it, he would root it out! HE TOLERATES IT!!!

I would like to join all those who are calling for the resignation of Chief DAVID DIAL. He has become a useless and disgusting POLICE CHIEF who has no purpose running our once fine police dept. He destroyed it!

Under the leadership of former Chief Jim Teal and Officer Friendly George Pradel, we had the best police dept. in Illinios. Now we have the worse police dept. in Illinois. It is amazing how one Chief can destroy an entire department from his INACTION and INCOMPETENCE! A great injustice to our great men in blue!

Thanks for letting me let off some steam, Host Ted! This fiasco really gets to me especialy when bloggers try to act everything was right by the BOOK! Maybe by the BOOK OF COWARDS, SCUMS and PRICKS!

Posted by: Elizabeth | March 5, 2008 07:12 PM

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Pretty strong post, Elizabeth. I may not like your choice of words but I agree with your message.

Those cops were nasty and ruthless that evening. They were the devil in disguise. They were evil doers! They were looking for trouble! They started trouble! I hope my words were a little softer than yours. But you did a great job and made your POINTS!

Response from Ted:

Maryann, I do care, very much. I get a great deal of out these blogs. But I also have a lot that is required of me running a newspaper, especially during these trying times in the industry, and Jim and I simply can't spend all our time saying the same things about Napergate.

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Hi Ted,
Just a suggestion since time seems to be the problem. Why not skip writing that half hour letter to the LA guy and the other half hour letter to Taxpayer and just send a letter to Chief David Dial with some questions we are all asking. Try not to be so addicted as so many of us are to your blogs!

Melissa laid out some very good questions. All you would need to do is copy, paste, revise a little and hit SEND to Chief Dial. Time is availble if you want to make it. If you don't feel like writing Chief Dial to get some action, you can always choose to blog non-stop with us and complain like the rest of us about INACTION and going around in CIRCLES. It would help if you led the way Host Ted!

You seem to be saying that bloggin brings no ACTION. You are right! So set an example and be the leader by writing the Chief with some questions?

I tend to agree with Melissa's partial post below but not her screaming,

"LET US SEE SOME ACTION! WE ARE NOT SOUNDING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD! YOU ARE SOUNDING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD WITH ALL YOUR WORDS JUSTIFYING NON-ACTION INSTEAD OF ACTION. IT IS YOU WHO IS CAUSING THE FRUSTRATION ON THESE THREADS BY REPEATING YOURSELF OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF WORDS. THAT IS UNDISPUTED! THEREFORE IT IS TIME FOR ACTION! PLEASE GET THAT LETTER TO THE POLICE CHIEF ASAP! I WROTE THE LETTER FOR YOU IN 5 MINUTES. NOW PLEASE SEND IT SO WE CAN GET SOME ANSWERS. WE ARE ALL TIRED OF WORDS! AND DON'T ASK ME TO DO IT! YOU ARE THE NEWSPAPER ALLEGEDLY WANTING TO BE THE WATCHDOG! SO BE THE WATCHDOG! HERE IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY! SHOW US ACTION AS WE ARE VERY TIRED OF YOUR USELESS WORDS THAT YOU KEEP REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN!"

I also did like her 5 questions to the Police Chief. I hope Host Ted or Moderator Jim find a way to fax or e-mail her questions to Chief Dial. Maybe certified return receipt requested by US MAIL may be the best option!

Her post of (Posted by: Melissa | March 5, 2008 11:34 AM) is worth READING!

I hope the Naperville Sun will move on from this and I am sure Marilyn will find something else to complain about since it appears she has all the time in the world to blog.

Posted by: A happy taxpayer | March 5, 2008 11:48 AM


Wouldn't it be easier "A happy taxpayer" if you moved on and left us alone so we can blog! Marilyn is very dedicated and makes very logical arguments. She calls it exactly as she sees it! She is highly respected on Ted's Threads by her fellow Napergatians. Most of us adore her.

Debbie,
It sounds from what you are saying, the NPD needed probable cause to execute a proper stop. They stopped him wihout probable cause. I suspect he could beat them on that tecnicality alone! It sounds like he just needs a good attoreny if he does not already have one!

Host Ted,
I agree with all who blogged today and said you have been working way too hard! Get some naps in between reading all these threads. I think most of us focus on one thread but you have to focus on 10 assuming all the archived posts are dead and not very active!

"Running tags is not illegal and it is part of an officer's job," says Joe!

Running tags or license plates of only all African Americans in downtown Naperville is illegal. State property or not! It is discrimination!

Running tags or license plates of only all Hispancis in downtown Naperville is illegal. State property or not! It is discrimination!

Runing tags or license plates of only all Napergatians in downtown Naperville is illegal! State property or not! It is discrimination.

What don't you get, Joe, regarding selective enforcement vs. random enforcement?

If you don't believe the incidents I mentioned above are discriminatory, I think you a FOOLISH RASH!

Quick Question,
The Napergate Man is an outstanding citizen who has done a lot for this community. The police selectively ran his plate.

The POLICE were PRICKS that night. They wanted him to commit a violation and mistreat him and bring mischief to him, his friend and his dog. If they were decent cops, they would have approached him before he entered his vehicle and said, Mr. Esmail did you know your license is suspended, at which time he would have told them no, and they would have informed him that it was, and not to drive so we don't have to arrest you. That is what any humane and decent SERGEANT would have done!

But the cops were dying to arrest him. They could have prevented him from committing the violation that led to his arrest. But they did not want to! They wanted him to commit the violation. They knew he did not know! No one as intelligent as the Napergate Man would park alongside 12 cops knowing his license was suspended. So as I said the cops that night were being PRICKS.

And "arrest" as being used by QQ is vague. I guess you can take care of this violation by voluntary booking or physical hand cuffing. The cops were PRICKS that night. They chose to not only physically hand cuff him but jail him overnight and separate him from his dog.

One or more of those 12 cops knew him with 1000% certainty as he had confiscated 1000 IDs over the decades and demanded a police report in each case which he published in his public relations ads that preceded Napergate and some during Napergate. One ad alone had 200 fake I.D.s documented by Naperville police report numbers.

This is a unusual case of certain fascist cops not liking somebody who is anti-establishment despite his heroic efforts and National Awards in helping police battle minors. This Napergate Man got more IDs than all other establishments combined X 5.5 as someone calculated on these blogs. I don't have the exact number but I believe I am close. The average liquor licensee gets one every 3 years and this Napergate Man gets hundreds per year. Yes, these cops on Chicago Ave. were the MOTHER of ALL PRICKS that evening.

They set him up to drive. They could have prevented a violation by talking to him. The PRICKS wanted a violation. This is not how a professional police dept. operates. This is how a fascist police dept. operates. Once we calm down someone has to say everything was KOSHER....BULLS**T. Nothing was KOSHER about this violation and especially regarding how it was handled!

It is selective enforcement, it is discrimination and it is fascism all wrapped up in one. I don't care what anyone says. Those police officers were PRICKS that day. I would love to tell them they are PRICKS right to their faces. Yes, PRICKS, PRICKS and PRICKS!

Their behavior was SHAMEFUL and DISGUSTING! Yes, all they had to tell him is please don't drive. Not try to SET HIM UP by making sure he DROVE! The PRICKS followed him in order to induce him to commit more violations. Is this a professional police department. These are PRICKS if they are not fascist! I have no respect for these idiotic police involved in this specific incident. And Chief David Dial should resign for allowing such PRICKISH behavior by our POLICE OFFICERS. How disgusting! And torturing animals! Is that right? Only PRICKS torture animals!

To do all this to one man over a technicality he obviously did not know about and THAT THEY KNEW HE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT with 100% CERTAINTY could only be COMMITTED by the SCUM of the EARTH? The officers involved in this specific incident were SCUM, SCUM, SCUM!!! PRICKS, PRICKS, PRICKS!!!

Thanks for letting me let off some steam, Host Ted! This fiasco really gets to me especialy when bloggers try to act everything was right by the BOOK! Maybe by the BOOK OF COWARDS, SCUMS and PRICKS!

QQ,

What remains is emotional distress to a dog due to being separated from its owner.

My understanding from other states (not sure about IL) is that you can be held for up to 24 hours before you need to be charged. The timeframe that everyone has shown (whether you look at the one on the police report or go by the witnesses in DD and Mike and Bob) that he was processed, booked, charged and released on bond in under 8 hours. That's 1/3 less than what they can legally hold you for before needing to formally arrest/charge you.

This is misconduct/corruption/fascism how again???????????

Joe,

I agree with your post: Joe | March 5, 2008 05:26 PM

- I believe we have just proven both probably cause, and a correct arrest in the napergate case. At least as it pertains to the running of plates, and the actual arrest of the Napergate man who was driving on a suspended license.

Additional facts are relevant, but the arrest seems legit. Again, this is my opinion as well.

QQ,

I will qualify that this is my OPINION. If you find it in error, then correct it with fact:

Yes, arrest is the proper procedure at that point in time.

What has been argued by many is that there was no reason to run his plates or to pull him over. That's BS. Plates are state property and in public view. Running tags is not illegal and it is part of an officer's job. The fact that the registered owner came back showing a suspended license was enough cause to 'watch' the vehicle. Once the vehicle was seen in motion and being driven by an occupant, the probable cause was established because it is on record as being registered to someone with a suspended license.

Now, the police will have to assume 1) The registered owner is complying with the suspension and someone else is driving the vehicle. Let's see if they have PERMISSION to drive the vehicle and that it is not STOLEN.. *Whirr Whirr* Traffic stop.

or assume 2) The registered owner is not complying with the license suspension in which case, that is a Class A Misdemeanor offense. *Whirr Whirr* Traffic stop.

Probable cause was established when the computer said it was registered to BBBB,EEEEE who's license is suspended and the vehicle was noted parked on the public roadway and subsequently DRIVEN.

Please feel free to tweak/correct where that is wrong.

Rod Randall:

Sorry - I'm a little slow on the uptake, I get your point and do see the difference. Joe's example doesn't appear to be relevant.

I do think this line of inquiry does bring another point out though. The Napergate man was indeed driving when he was pulled over? If yes, then his arrest seems to be the correct procedure by the officer on the scene. The Napergate man was arrested for driving with a suspended license. This seems to throw a wrench into those that claim his offense was so minor that he should not have been arrested, and that most people are let go in these cases.

If I'm reading these posts correctly, we have Police Officer, Rod Randall, and me (Quick Question) all indicating that if you drive with a suspended license (even if you don't know it's suspended) then you will most likely be arrested if pulled over.

Police Officer said so: You are only arrested if you drive
posted by Police Officer | March 5, 2008 12:08 PM

And Rod just said so: Of course you get arrested if stopped while driving with a suspended license.
posted by : Rod Randall | March 5, 2008 04:01 PM

And my arresting officer told me the same thing: The officer was professional and explained that once He ran my plate and it came back with a warrant (poor word choice) He had to arrest me.
Posted by: Quick question | February 27, 2008 10:45 PM


Could this at least be one of the reasons that Napergate man was handcuffed and arrested? Keep in mind that according to Police officer there is some discretion based on the circumstances - I am glad to hear this. I'm also not saying that there are not other factors to this case, but it seems clear that the actual arrest for driving on a suspended license is correct procedure.

Mr. Randall,

What you are saying is very accurate. If you drive on a suspended license and don't show up on your court date, they will issue a warrant for your arrest. But only because they already caught you driving and you did not show up in court.

But especially for emission and toll suspensions, Police Officer was very right. He has been on here many times and everything he says is true. There is no warrant issued initially. Never! You have to commit the act of driving first and not show up to court to have a warrant issued. I learned a lot during my son's DUI case and it all agrees with what Police Officer has told us from day 1.

He is a pleasure to have on board. He showed a lot of class today by giving Quick Question all the benefits of doubt possible so he would not by lying but only be wrong. What a class act that was!

I dearly miss Mrs. of the Police Officer and I wish she would blog again with us. She also had tons of answers and was very credible and honest.

I just hope her husband or the Police Chief did not muzzle her, as it is out of character for her not to blog with us. She was a great and highly respected blogger a month ago. Her and Ameena were both great losses to Ted's Threads!

I think those time lines in the Napergate Case are a telling story.

My son once got a DUI and spent many days in Dupage County Court. Mostly continuance after continuance to set hearing dates. What I learned is that police officers need a strong foundation of probable cause to make a stop of a vehicle followed by a DUI arrest.

Many times police officers seem to convert a full stop at a stop sign into a roll or state a turn signal was not put on within 100 feet of an intersection whether it was turned on or not to lay a foundation. Without the proper foundation, the DUI is lost. So cops have incentives and needs to embellish a little and sometimes the bad ones do a lot and repeatedly. Thank God we have judges that can see through them and rule against them quite often. But they are never punished by the judicial system for embellishing and thus they continue unabated....not all of them but the bad ones.

The defense attorney who represented my son was a former high ranking prosecutor and told me police officers embellish police reports quite often.

Basically the evidentiary hearing held before a DUI trial revealed the officer had no probable cause to stop my son. My son had been drinking and driving and I will not defend him but he did get off due to lack of probable cause!

But I just thought how terrible that a sworn police officer would embellish, falsify or alter a report to try to nail a 17 year old boy with a DUI. I still remain angry at my son for his stupidity but I am not happy with the fabrications of the police officer to nail him at any cost!

Back to the Napergate Case! It really is not far fetched that the NPD decided to alter the orginal report after all this heat on this thread. 5 witness to dispute a time line on a police report is a lot of people. If a 300 member police dept. does not have someone assigned to watch, Ted's Threads, I would be shocked.

Since we know Sgt. Greg Bell's friend is monitoring them, it is very likely the Sgt. himself is monitoring them. I can only speculate he is second guessing his actions.

I really think what they did to Abby the dog was very cruel. I would have thought our police officers would have had some animal sensitivity training. Abby could have escaped from Bob and easily been hit by a car during that long struggle to drag her against her will. At that point we would have had a lawsuit for sure. You can not put a price on the love of a human being for his dog. I think the NPD should be thankful nothing happened to Abby...that is all I am going to say!


PS. Just for the record my son's DUI was in Downers Grove and not Naperville. Don't want to put any more pressure on the NPD than they already are facing on this blog. One has to be fair!

Quick Question:

You didn't catch the point of my comment. Of course you get arrested if stopped while driving with a suspended license. What Joe said was that there was (in his example) a "warrant" out for driving with a suspended license. That is not the same since no arrest warrant is issued just because your license has for some reason been suspended.

Hi, in reference to:
Rod Randall | March 5, 2008 01:16 PM

I'm not trying to stick up for Joe (He seems to jump right in on his own), but I read the police officer's comments differently.

I had given a case where I was arrested while driving on a suspended license. (suspended incorrectly by the way). The Napergate man was in fact driving on a suspended license (this was also apparently news to him as well). Joe's example is of a guy who was also driving with a suspended license.

In your comments you said: There is no crime unless a person drives while the license is suspended.

In my case, Joe's case, and the Napergate Man's case we were all driving with suspended licenses when we were pulled over.

I'm not picking a fight, or sticking up for Joe, but understand that the police won't break down your door to get you, but if they catch you driving with a suspended license you (May, probably, most likely) will get arrested.

Mr. Rodd Randall,

The difference is very clear. Thanks for pointing it out!

Since I don't recognize your name, I should inform you Joe does like to argue anything anyone says!

Hopefully he accepts your version which I believe is very accurate and we don't lose focus.

Welcome aboard if you are new to these blogs!

Moderator Jim,

Even though I am a Napergatian and disagree with much of what TED posts, I will say that he undoubtely is the hardest working emplooyee at the Naperville Sun.

I see him posting 7 days a week from 7am - 11pm. He reminds me of those old 7-11 stores that had those great hours before 24 hours became the new standard in retail. But those stores have 3 shifts of workers.

Host TED works 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, or a total of 112 hours per week. You are getting your money's worth out of him.

I think working him this hard is almost inhumane, Moderator Jim. His fatigue showed yesterday! Why can't other assisitant editors fill in for him a day here or a day there and give him some well needed and deserved rest!

I know I am not Ted's Boss, but he deserves a BIG RAISE for his success with these Blogs. I hope the budget of the Naperville Sun factors in a nice raise for Host Ted. One has to respect him and his enormous dedication even if one disagrees with him!

"Those who are demanding the Sun do something should go get a Management Position AT the Sun. Then you can do all the stories you want to your heart's content about whatever subject matter you want. Perhaps even change the name: The Napergate News. (You can use that royalty free, by the way)."


A section inside the Naperville Sun under the heading Napergate News that was serious investigative reporting would increase Sun circulation easily 50% or more. I am sure the Napergate Man would not mind giving the Naperville Sun that catchy section title, as he mothballed it in 2001 or there abouts shortly after his retirement from politics.

Royalty free sounds like a good reason for the Naperville Sun to jump on it as it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity. How can you be sure that Ameena did not grab that "Napergate" coin already since she is writing a book about Napergate and the Napergate Man? If that was the case would not the Naperville Sun have to pay royalties to Ammeena if she grabbed the rights to "Napergate" alreay.

Police Officer said that no warrant is issued for having a driver's license suspended. There is no crime unless a person drives while the license is suspended.

Joe's example states that there was a warrant for "driving while license was suspended".

These are two different circumstances. In the Police Officer scenario, a suspension does not cause an arrest warrant. In Joe's example, the person must have already been stopped (or maybe involved in an accident or some other incident which revealed he was driving) while "driving" while his license was suspended.

If Joe was trying to refute the Police Officer's ststement by his example, Joe's example fails to do so.

Thanks Police officer for further clarification. As I previously mentioned I wish it had been you instead of the officer in Yorkville. My law enforcement experience consists of watching "Law and Order" so I must have misunderstood the arresting officer about the word "Warrant" - not hard to do while handcuffs are being placed on you. This particular officer was quite clear about the fact that he had no choice but to take me in - something I now question more than ever.

The point I was making was that when the officer typed in my license plate to his computer (Something they do all the time - and quite legal?) He indicated that a record was created that his supervisor could later question him about, i.e. his computer would show that he typed in a license plate of a driver with a suspended license. The supervisor would then question him about my stop. Does this sound correct? and if so could this be the case with the Napergate guy? The cop led me to believe he would be in trouble with his superiors if he didn't arrest me. I was using this logic as a theory as to why the Napergate man was arrested.

Secondly, If someone believes that an entire police force is corrupt, and this corruptness includes the internal affairs division, can they go to a higher authority at the Federal Level? A number of bloggers here believe that NPD internal affairs group is corrupt as well and it would be helpful for them to know where to go.

thanks again for the response.

Police Officer,

Roundlake Police Blotter shows a stop on 11/07/2007 at 10:25 PM for a person by the name of MARTINEZ-SIERRA, Wilfrido

Noted in arrest:
Officer was notified of a wanted subject. Offender was located and had a warrant for driving while license suspended.

It seems that sometimes they are issued. Exactly under what circumstances, I don't know. But, they are issued.

Can you use your powers to find out more details as to why that person had one? Maybe it will shed some light on things if there are any similar circumstances. Thanks.

Response from Ted:

"Huge and unlimited manpower" you say? Between illnesses, vacations, downsizing and maternity leaves it amazes me how our tiny staff manages to put out a daily newspaper. That's the bottom line. We simply don't have the time to investigate a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license that occurred 18 months ago."

Host Ted,
You misunderstood me. I was speaking of your army of 1000 Citizen Journalists who are truly helping you. I do believe there is a time line unraveling in this case that never raveled out in the Drew Peterson case. Many police cases are solved thru time line investigations. They are very time consuming. But you have your CITIZEN JOURNALISTS to assist you. It seems like they are dying to assist you.

I know you have contraints with your REAL JOURNALISTS as every police dept and every corporation in America faces these contraints in manpower in these rough economic times.

I do see you work very hard Host Ted, but it is apparent you are tiring and need a few days off.

If you can not get help this weekend, I would suggest closing your blogs for this weekend and sleeping 48 hours straight. You deserve it! I don't think my comment would have gone over your head if you were sleeping 6 hours an evening. I also see you up early and staying up very late in the evening. But you are doing a great job with growing this thread! You have shown unusual dedication!

I don't think you meant to say to your bloggers you do not care about number of posters on a thread. This upset them as they took it personally! It was alomost like indirectly telling them you don't care about them but it is their blogging that measures your success! Never stop appreciating those who made your threads an overnight success story! Take them for granted and they will migrate elsewhere and your overnight success story will become an overnight failure story. No one wants that to happen!

Quick Question,

I was a little harsh on you mostly because you stated the police officer said there was a warrant out for your arrest because of the emission suspension. As a police officer of nearly a quarter of a century, I can tell you with certainty no warrants are issued in the case of emission suspensions. You are only arrested if you drive. You can not committ this offense unless you drive.
How does the state know if you will drive or not? Thus they could never issue a warrant.

A warrant is issued only if you are to be arrested regardless of whether you drive or don't drive, such as for robbing a bank or battering a neighbor. So, I assumed you lied! I probably should have assumed you did not know what you were talking about instead of stating you lied. I apologize for saying you lied but you were wrong. Ask any police officer in the STATE of ILLINIOS and he will tell you no WARRANT is issued for this kind of petty violation.

I can not speak for the other 49 states as I have no knowledge of their laws and never worked a police officer in any other state.

As far as the latest Napergate Case, he may well file a lawsuit before the statute of limitiations expires on his case. He could be waiting for the NPD to make another false move to lump it together and strengthen his case before the statute of limitations expires. Does anyone know what the statue of limitations is on a case like this? I honestly don't know as I am not a lawyer. Only a police officer!

I will tell you though why I believe he will file suit if the statute of limitation did not expire. I could be wrong but here is what I believe! His friend Bob told us his attorneys are not allowing him to speak. This usually means a suit is coming. He has smart attorneys who don't want him to put his foot in his mouth with one wrong word. They muzzled him as they muzzled him in all his previous cases and we know he is 3-0 against City Hall in the Courts. I believe he has a similar record against City Hall in council meetings but I do not have much interest in that area and do not follow those council meetings.

Once again, I will reiterate as a POLICE OFFICER, I am given wide discretion and my duty is to exercise it fairly. I was not there when the SERGEANT exercised his discretion so I am going to withhold comment until all the facts are out. But I can tell you no police officer is allowed to abuse his discretion to discrimate against anyone. Surprising, the facts are coming out on these threads better than most investigations police officers can do.

What Host Ted has is huge and unlimited manpower. Most police depts. have very limited manpower and could never spend this much time on a case. But the mystery is being gradually solved on Ted's Thread. I believe there are only a couple of missing pieces left to this puzzle that will solve this mystery with certainty.

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Once again Quick Question, I urge you to call any police dept. in the State of Illinios. Anonymously is fine! They will tell you warrants are not issued in emission suspension cases! That is why I stated very harshly you lied. I should have simply said you were wrong...sorry! Not here to stir trouble on Ted's Threads as I enjoy reading them daily when I am off duty. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you misunderstood the officer in question!

How does that sound? I hope much better!

Response from Ted:

"Huge and unlimited manpower" you say? Between illnesses, vacations, downsizing and maternity leaves it amazes me how our tiny staff manages to put out a daily newspaper. That's the bottom line. We simply don't have the time to investigate a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license that occurred 18 months ago.

Im just glad Ted has again realized the amount of nonsense that is repeated over and over and over by Marilyn and the likes. She has an agenda and it has nothing to do with the Napergate man. Only she knows what it is, maybe she got a ticket that she didnt agree with or even arrested? Who knows and who really cares?

You finally have a voice to constructively complain and the countless nuts have made all kinds of allegations without any proof and expect people to believe the few of you complaining.

I will gladly call the police any day for help when I need them and wont think twice about your opinion. I know that there are people who just hate police, laws, government and probably themselves too. You appear to fit all of those categories.

I hope the Naperville Sun will move on from this and I am sure Marilyn will find something else to complain about since it appears she has all the time in the world to blog.

Host Ted,

"Finally, I had asked Basim to file a complaint with Internal Affairs of the Naperville Police Department. He told me he does not believe one exists and if it exists it is for public consumption and would never punish an officer for what he did to a civilian. He feels its only function is "white washing" all the wrongs of the police department!
That is it!"

__________________________________________

This is from Bob's Amazing Post. It tells you that the Napergate Man does not believe filing a complaint with a pretentious Internal Affairs Unit will do any good. There is a reason why residents feel the Napergate Man is brilliant.

The NPD is not going to rule against itself. By doing that the NPD pre-hangs itself in the judicial process. So a police dept. having an Internal Affairs Division is a FARCE. It is for public relations as the Napergate Man pointed out to us numerous times in his Napergate Ads. The City of Naperville should have an outside body monitoring the NPD and not the NPD monitoring itself. People respect this Napergate Man because he has lots of logic and common sense. He knows better than to fall for city traps. Being stupid enough to go to Internal Affairs is like being stupid enough to incriminate yourself! Only a stupid person would go there instead of to his lawyer. DF and the Napergate Man are 2 smart men who bypassed this trap called INTERNAL AFFAIRS!

This is why the Naperville Sun should be involved. It is an outside body performing a legitimate watchdog duty.

While digging this quote up, I also noticed the below quote from the Bob's Amazing Post as coined by Ted:

__________________________________________

"I am assuming he was taken to jail and came to Dunkin Donuts immediately upon his release at 6am as he probably suspected Abby had suffered enough and he had an urgent need to get back!"
__________________________________________


Bob and Mike had no knowledge of the police report! If they did they would have disputed that 4am exit time a long time ago. They gave their accounts credibly with no reason or motivation to twist or alter, and we find this major inconsistency. Even Host Ted believed they were credible. Host most decide if Bob and Mike who her formerly called credible if the Sergeant GREG BELL is credible. They can not be both credible, Host Ted! By saying they are credible and not changing your mind, you are in essence stating Sgt. Bell is NOT CREDIBLE.

While I need to dig deeper to be sure, I believe the earlier hour on the police report may have been embellished backwards from 1am-1:15am to 2:15am. I do believe that the NPD saw the outrage on these blogs and changed the times of arrest and release of the Napergate Man. I am surprised that Moderator Jim called the below quote by Marilyn ludicrous. It is from the very first post on this thread.

___________________________________________

"Finally, does anyone really know if this police report is the original police report of the incident. It could possibly be one that was altered and embellished at a later time to satisfy the FOIA request by the Naperville Sun. The NPD has a very long history of embellishing police reports to suit their specific needs!"
____________________________________________

After 220 blogs what Marilyn stated was not ludicrous but factual with 5 witnesses to attest that the police report was embellished. Any defense attorney who was a former prosecutor will tell you that police embellishment of reports is very wide spread practice especially in DUI cases. Moderator Jim should apologize to Marilyn now that the truth finally came out.

The NPD knew no one would believe booking would take that long so they changed the times in an attempt to show he was not being punished by Sergeant GREG BELL for whatever hostile reasons or intentions existed for his uncalled for and outrageous behavior!

If in fact an officer was injured in a motorcycle accident, the NPD could not call one of over 175 officers off duty that night to come in and help with this "backlogged booking." If Naperville is such a safe town why is there a 4 hour booking backlog of "criminals." Very laughable if you ask me! When did the NPD start caring about its overtime? Furstenau points this out all the times and they ignore him. Unlike most overtime, this would have been necessary overtime to prevent punishment to innocent civilians and their animals. Even if the Napergate Man was guilty, our system affords DUE PROCESS before incarceration over night!

Finally, last night I do agree with the bloggers who stated our Host sounded exactly like JOE not understanding what we are doing here and being bored with us. Being annoyed with a thread he set up. Being annoyed with a police report he posted. Being annoyed with legitimate questioning of the NPD by his bloggers. Being annoyed that his bloggers checkmated the NPD by catching them in a major lie on the TIME OF RELEASE!

One reason this INTERNAL AFFAIRS is a total farce is because the NAPERVILLE SUN is not keeping an eye on it. The NPD would be stupid to rule against itself in any significant case like the DF or Napergate Cases and suffer possible costly litigation as a result!

They ruled against themselves on 11 petty cases of possibly a police officer raising his voice a little against a soccer mom in 2006. Wow for them! This gives them the false appearance they are legitimate when we all know that department would be another KANGAROO DEPT. if a serious complaint was filed in it. These rulings are for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION to provide the illusion that Internal Affairs if FAIR. This is what the Napergate Man taught us in his ads!

The Napergate Man knew better than to file a complaint with INTERNAL AFFAIRS. We should know better than to expect him to file a complaint with INTERNAL AFFAIRS. That would be a real waste of time and taxpayer dollars!

But if the Naperville Sun challenges the NPD in a serious manner on the arrest of the Napergate Man, that would NOT be a waste of time.


HERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS HOST TED CAN ASK CHIEF DAVID DIAL:


1. Why was his plate run in the first place? Was it run randomly or in targeted fashion that night?

2. Why were police running license plates of parked vehicles instead of concentrating on drunk drivers pulling our of a nightclub districts? Isn't the role of random checking of plates delegated to the Community Officers?

3. Why was he stopped without probable cause, a requirement before you stop a vehicle in Illinois? (spend a day in court and you will learn quickly you have to have PROBABLE CAUSE to execute a stop. If there was no probable cause required they would not have been PRAYING that he run one of those 4 stop signs he went thru before they stopped him...dah! Again he outsmarted them by counting numbers at each stop sign in addition to having a witness with him)

4. Why was he not given discretion that normal citizens are given to take their dog or kid home and return for booking escorted by a driver? This is not preferential treatment as RASH calls it. It is equal and proper treatment using discretion authorized under police codes!

5. Why was he kept overnight in jail for at least 4 hours? There are 5 witnesses that can testify that the police report was EMBELLISHED! Bob, Mike, Basim, and the Husband and Wife team at Dunkin Donuts! Maybe even Abby can bark yes and make it 5.5 witnesses!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


These are questions the Naperville Sun as a WatchDog Wannabee Newspaper of our community should ask Chief David Dial.

Write them up nicely and e-mail them to Chief Dial. He is less likely to brush off a newspaper as he is to brush off a civilian.

If you do small things like this, Host Ted, people will feel you are not playing games with them. Right now, I feel you are playing games with words and unwilling to take the slightest of actions.

I understand you are busy! But delegate it to someone at the Naperville Sun who is not as busy. You do work hard! But how hard does Tim West work? I can write all his editorials that he writes in a week in ONE HOUR. I can review all those tiny letters to the editor that appear each week in less than another ONE HOUR. You and Moderator Jim need to throw some more work at this man. He does not work from 6am till 11pm as you and Moderator Jim do. And don't try to tell me he does, because I will not believe you!

LET US SEE SOME ACTION! WE ARE NOT SOUNDING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD! YOU ARE SOUNDING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD WITH ALL YOUR WORDS JUSTIFYING NON-ACTION INSTEAD OF ACTION. IT IS YOU WHO IS CAUSING THE FRUSTRATION ON THESE THREADS BY REPEATING YOURSELF OVER AND OVER AGAIN. YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF WORDS. THAT IS UNDISPUTED! THEREFORE IT IS TIME FOR ACTION! PLEASE GET THAT LETTER TO THE POLICE CHIEF ASAP! I WROTE THE LETTER FOR YOU IN 5 MINUTES. NOW PLEASE SEND IT SO WE CAN GET SOME ANSWERS. WE ARE ALL TIRED OF WORDS! AND DON'T ASK ME TO DO IT! YOU ARE THE NEWSPAPER ALLEGEDLY WANTING TO BE THE WATCHDOG! SO BE THE WATCHDOG! HERE IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY! SHOW US ACTION AS WE ARE VERY TIRED OF YOUR USELESS WORDS THAT YOU KEEP REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

MY MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!


I posed a "quick question" about a week ago, and also relayed a similar instance where I was arrested for an emissions violation in the past. My instance was in Kendall County (Yorkville) and not Naperville but I thought it was relevant to this chain.

Quick question | February 27, 2008 06:19 PM

Quick question | February 27, 2008 10:45 PM

One of the responses I received was from someone who goes by the name of Police Officer.

Police Officer | February 28, 2008 12:37 PM

Not sure if this person is really a cop, I know that with blogs such as these anyone can go by whatever name they wish. This "Police Officer" responded that they thought my story was made up and was doing a disservice to everyone. He cites a wide range of latitude that cops have in these cases. Perhaps my arresting officer was mistaken?, overstepped their bounds?, or simply doesn't know the law?, I don't know. I do know my lawyer indicated I didn't have a case. (btw everything was thrown out later because of a snafu at the Secty of states office - my license was incorrectly suspended.)

The point I am trying to make now is that it seems that anyone who disagrees with the conspiracy theorists, or Napergatians (sp?) is branded a liar, a cop, a city official, or some other inflammatory name. None of the questions I asked were answered, but as seems to be the common thread I was branded a liar.

The moderators have a valid point that someone who feels wronged needs to bring about an action themselves, whether it be filing a lawsuit, or simply asking for a meeting for further explanation. Doesn't seem that anyone on this blog has even attempted this?

If you feel too intimidated by Chief Dial or the entire NPD then bring it to an attorney who can direct you to a Federal Authority who's responsibility it is to oversee local law enforcement (FBI?). Write your congressman, ask for a Federal Investigation into these allegations. I suspect the answer you will get, as the moderators have indicated ad infinitum, is that you have no real proof and no standing.

I suppose I've set myself up for criticism, it is not my intention to call anyone out here. But the fact remains that even if this case is as you say, someone needs to at least call or file some type of legal complaint first.

The Napergate man is without question a "cult hero" type figure in town. He successfully took on city hall and won - he is/was fearless in his pursuit and I admire him for that. Those of you that are so convinced that this current case (18 mos ago) is an iron clad abuse of power have to ask yourselves why the Napergate man isn't pursuing legal remedy? Is he afraid? Hardly - this guy knows the system and if he thought he had a case would be suing the city once again. Makes me believe there is very little there.

This blog has become nothing more than unsubstantiated unfounded redundancy.

ted

what ever happened to a paper or a reporter acting on a "tip"? since when do you need documented, formalized complaints with paper trails? don't you ever get a tip from a source and look into it?

you got a tip from an anonymous source about furstenau and krouse and checked it out and ran a story.

you have received many "tips" from anonymous bloggers on this site about the actions of the npd, including several from me which included very detailed accounts of events and where to go find the proof. they were so detailed and serious that jim blocked the post and didn't run it. why not take my anonymous tips and do some calling around?

my point, and i think the point of many on this blog is, the sun does look into tips. the sun has investigated and run stories that originated from something other than an actual, on the record, documented complaint. it does write public stories about important issues even if the people involved would rather have an issue stay private. but for some reason, the sun never does this when it involves the NPD. that is what we don't get.

Response from Ted:

When that scofflaw starts taking her cat for a walk without a leash (also a real law in Naperville), you let us know, and we'll send the troops.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You mean that 'unregistered' cat? Sometimes she even rides behind it on her 'unregistered' bicycle too. Such flagrant disregard! Call the National Guard!!!

Anonymous on March 4th liked that idea too: "If it turns out they are lying and embellishing, I say we clean house and call in the National Guard until we can hire 300 new officers. We may need to start fresh to get rid of the cancer known as the Code Of Blue!"

Oh, the Humanity of it all!

Maryann,

I may be mistaken, but in our legal system the person who feels they were wronged (or actually witnessed the wrong) has to start the ball rolling. Either themselves or a guardian. If someone feels they were wronged that night, they need to start the process rolling by filing a formal complaint. This is what Ted has said over and over. A *REAL* paper trail has to be started by someone alleging the wrong ON THE RECORD. If someone feels they witnessed a 'wrong' that night, they too can come forward and file a FORMAL COMPLAINT.

Ted said over and over that when that first step actually happens, they will pursue it. Until then, people are simply venting.

Alternatively, you can gather as many wronged people as you can find and file a class action lawsuit. Again, that starts a paper trail.

Someone complaining about something on a blog is meaningless. Take the first step and go file a formal complaint or convince the party that feels they were wronged to do it, or an eye witness. Either way, the first step needs to be taken and that's not the Sun's job to take that first step.

I could allege on here night and day that my neighbor is hanging her laundry on a clothes line and violating a city ordinance (there is one, don't laugh). That does not mean the Sun has to do anything about it. I'm simply complaining. Now, if I go and register a formal complaint and the paper trail starts, there's a story possibly about why this town has such a dumb ordinance in the first place or why anyone would give a damn what someone else is doing in their yard with their own underwear. Nothing happens until the complaint is registered in an official capacity.

Response from Ted:

When that scofflaw starts taking her cat for a walk without a leash (also a real law in Naperville), you let us know, and we'll send the troops.

Those who are demanding the Sun do something should go get a Management Position AT the Sun. Then you can do all the stories you want to your heart's content about whatever subject matter you want. Perhaps even change the name: The Napergate News. (You can use that royalty free, by the way).

Since the armchair managers have the know-how of what makes a newspaper HOT I am confident they will have no problem securing their position to bring the Sun to glory once again.

Alternatively, if the demand is as great as claimed, they should have no problem pooling their vast amounts of cash (due to sheer volume of people mad at the establishment) to start their own newspaper.

Go for it guys and gals. I may obtain another subscription; one to read and one to Frame so I can E-Bay it 20 years from now when the proletariat once again feel the need to rise up against the repressive ruling class and be set free from their repressive rule.

I don't get it. Ted goes out of his way to furnish this police report and open a new thread of discussion on the Napergate Man and it's like nobody cares anymore. Where are all the Napergatians. Here's another chapter of this ongoing story that's ripe for discussion. Where are all you people? (The people came in big numbers and Host Ted is no longer happy we are here......Maryann)

Posted by: Jim Lynch, moderator | February 26, 2008 04:58 PM (Wrong Jim, people care very much and are passionate, 42 posts last night and 218 in 6.5 days...that is caring.....we came per your request and invitation.....please don't let Host Ted unload us as he has threatened......Maryann)


__________________________________________________________________


Moderator Jim,
Your above statement indicates that you and Host Ted don't see eye to eye. You indicated that you cared about number of bloggers. You were looking for us. You wanted to know where we were. I think that showed you cared.

Host Ted has indicated he does not care. He thinks a site with one blogger in 2 weeks should be here on a BLOGGIN SITE so people can read it. That is an outrageous statement. If people just want to read it and don't want to blog it should be a link somewhere else on the extensive Naperville Sun online edition. I don't blame Host Ted for trying different threads, but once there is no interest of bloggers in it, he needs to delete it, archive it, or put it a link somewhere else where people can read it. I think Ted is risking the entire reputation of the Naperville Sun with his comments offending bloggers.

If he is bored with this Napergate Thread, I would like to see you step in and host it. I have seen you host other threads. Give Host Ted a break. The thread got to him! He admitted it. He is tired of it. He wants to archive it. He is thinking of himself and not what is best for the newspaper, its readers or its bloggers. I along with many others have been disappointed with Host Ted. Obviously he was acting so irrationally that some girl thought he was having a beer. I guess he was not, but why was he making "Joe" style comments as Taxpayer and others indicated.

I counted 42 posts on this Napergate Thread yesterday. Almost all long which indicates no one is trying to jack up the number. Marilyn posted 2 very long ones to start the day and I believe taxpayer and I posted 2 very long ones to end the day. There were many long and passionate ones in between. And Host Ted is looking to end this passionate debate prematurely to once again save the reputation and credibility of the NPD.

We learned a lot from this debate. I just went back and read Bob's long amazing thread. He stated the Napergate Man arrived at 6 am to pick him and Abby up at Dunkin Donuts. This confirms what Mike said about being called at 530am to pick him up. I would speculate between the time Mike jumped in his car, went to the police station to pick the Napergate Man up, and took him to reconnect with Abby and Bob, a half hour elapsed making all the sense in the world as far as a credible time lince. We have a husband and wife team at DD that can back Bob and Mike. And I am sure the Napergate Man would never allow Bob and Mike to lie as he cherishes his credibility. Thus in essence we have 5 people who can testify that the Naperville Police Dept embellished the time on that police report from 530am to 4am to create a false belief that they did not keep the Napergate Man overnight.

I believe they embellished and altered or simply re-did the entire report because they read these threads and saw the outrage bloggers felt about holding a respected citizen overnight in a jail cell with no bedding or reading material as a form of unjustified punishment. It seems obvious they wanted to humiliate the Napergate Man for his past battles with the police dept and city hall.

The Naperville Sun has asked us to participate. They promised to be in the bus with us if we led the way. We led the way and caught the Naperville Police Dept lying on an official police report. A sworn member of this fabled police dept. has been caught LYING! Just what we wanted! And Host Ted wants to end it right now and there!
It happens every time Moderator Jim. He lets the NPD off the hook every time! Why? Tell me why Moderator Jim?

You and I, Moderator Jim, both know why we lost Ameena, the Sun's best blogger. I have communicated with her. I know she communicated with you. She basically got frustrated with Host Ted's tactics of pulling plugs whenever he felt like it. He pulled the plugs on those Napergate Threads while Ameena was doing research at the library for her fabulous posts that everyone loved. Who does not miss her posts? Every time that girl posted, she got 30 to 40 comments of adoration.

If Ameena was still with us, we would have 318 posts instead of 218 posts as she had a loyal following. But Host Ted upset Ameena and we lost her. I have not seen her post in weeks! Has anyone else seen her post? What a beautiful and unique style she had with her posts! What an education in grass roots she gave us!

Do you care about the number of bloggers and posts on your sites, Moderator Jim? Of course you do! You seemed very concerned initially when no one posted for over 3 hours. It was simply a matter of no one knowing that the Naperville Sun had put on this exciting new Napergat Thread.

It is not like this thread was just hot today. It averaged over 31 posts a day even counting the first day when no one seemed to know it was on till very late afternoon. Take that first day out and you have an average of 36 plus posts per day. By far your best thread in the last week. And Host Ted can not wait to get rid of the thread and the bloggers? Can you believe this Moderator Jim? I am appealing to you to correct the situation. Host Ted is burned out? Give him some rest and let someone else take over for him so he can get his energy back! He deserves a break! He has been posting blogs and remarks before he gets to work, during work, and after work! I believe that is why he is losing it. You are working him way too hard and his judgment has become IMPAIRED! It was obvious to many bloggers last night!

I guess I am now blaming you Moderator Jim, for not giving Host Ted a little time to recuperate. He works his a** off from 6am till 11pm. He posted Marilyn before 6am and Taxpayer after 11pm. I think this is what has happened to him. He is acting completely irrational. Can you believe he said he does not care about the number of posters? Just a week ago he was bragging about hitting a thousand. By working him so hard, you are making him, irrational and he is losing his credibility. He really did sound so much like "Joe" today, slicing and dicing his way out of confronting the NPD with the silliest reasons and excuses....all lame if you ask me!

Initially, he said he wants first hand accounts. He gets first hand accounts from Mike and Bob. Now he is demanding someone he will never get and knows he will never get. After reading Bob's post again tonight, I think he made it clear the Napergate Man is under orders from his attorneys not to blog or talk to the media. He is not going to disobey them and he has not. So Bob obviously knew something on Feb. 3 that we are all finding out a month later with certainty. He is not coming out to talk to the media under any circumstance.

When Ted says brings me the Napergate Man and I will challenge the NPD, he is saying that as it gives him yet another excuse since he read Bob's Amazing Post and knows the Napergate Man is not coming out. I guarantee you if he ever comes out, he will come out in his usual style of Napergate ads where he can say what he wants, how he wants and when he wants. He is too smart to allow his words or thoughts to be edited or taken out of context. He spent his whole life building his credibility and he is not going to allow a reporter who misquotes him destroy it overnight. That is how I read it. Since we know he has owned a shopping center in town for a very long time, it is most probably paid for and he could afford his Napergate ads rather easily if he chose to speak again.

Anyway, I think I made my points! Please review Host Ted's comments today and you will see it was an issue of BURN OUT! There was nothing wrong with the bloggers. They were fine! Some were upset that Host Ted will not call out the NPD on allegedly fabricating a time on the police report that is blatantly false and can be disputed by 5 people. Others were upset because Host Ted feels it is more important to keep reading material on this bloggin site than blogging material.

Host Ted showed no respect to his bloggers last night by stating he does not care about numbers of posts. That was the mother of insults and I think someone needs to apologize here, Moderator Jim, for that obvioulsy untrue statement. I hope you guys are not taking us for granted. This is not the only bloggin site. We came here because it is local. We want to give you a chance! We also want it to be good! We want it to be productive!

Just like we left Eric Zorn to come to the Sun Blogs we can return to Eric Zorn if you do not want us. No one is returning to Gretawire.com because she allowed her threads to go deep into the gutter. She has national exposure and sometimes her threads do worse than the Napergate or District 204 threads. That should tell you something about Host Ted's success before he finally "burned" out. When you are "burned out" you do not realize you are "burned out." Your judgment becomes impaired. You act cocky and arrogant! That is why that girl thought Ted was drinking last night. His judgment was totally impaired. I thought he was drinking too, until he said he was not. Than I realized he was simply burned out. He has way too much on his plate. He is very dedicated! And especially today he was communicating with bloggers on many threads! It could be why he finally burned out. He even wrote a long one to Taxpayer after he was really burned out. But he made no sense while TAXPAYER made a real lost of sense. Taxpayer took some time off and he came back stronger than ever and on the ball.

Did you see his great description of Joe as nothing but a RASH that if you itch it just gets worse. I believe this comment is going to be instrumental in getting bloggers to ignore Joe. It is really a shame that Joe is allowed to lie and deceive on these blogs. He twists peoples' words around. He stated Samantha said things she never said. Unlike Host Ted who is a good guy but simply burned out, Joe is nothing but an idiot.

If Host Ted gets rid of Joe, he won't burn out as easily. Most posters would only post once instead of twice. Joe attacks almost every single post, causing half the posters to come back. So Joe does increase the posting on the Napergate thread directly and indirectly. But if Ted truly wanted less posts, he would get rid of Joe. I suspect he keeps Joe on because Joe increases the number of posters and posts with his agitating behavior. This also contradicts Host Ted that he does not care about number of posters. Yes, he was drunk tired when he wrote that and should be forgiven! Of course he cares immensely about the number of posters! If he chose all dud threads that averaged one post per thread, I suspect Moderator Jim would have canned him by now!

In summary, Moderator Jim, I hope you can overrule Host Ted and take off that charity thread with one post and leave the Napergate Thread on for the 2 week normal period of the past. You can make Host Ted happy by putting that charity thread where reading material belongs on the Sun's Web Site. You know better than I do where it belongs but it does not belong on a Bloggin Site where bloggin is the rule and law of the jungle!

Sincerely,
Maryann


Response from Ted:

Maryann, I do care, very much. I get a great deal of out these blogs. But I also have a lot that is required of me running a newspaper, especially during these trying times in the industry, and Jim and I simply can't spend all our time saying the same things about Napergate. Relax. When Napergate threads have passed from the home page, others have come along to take their place, and the discussion continues. We simply can't manipulate the threads to keep one on the home page. Sorry.

what is the deal.

ted, with all do respect,

i honestly can't believe some of the things you have said tonight. it is shocking to me?

1) since when does an newspaper or investigative reporter need someone to go on record before you do any investigating and reporting? you certainly didn't need one when you got and ANONYMOUS tip about furstenau and krouse's business agreement. you looked into that.

you are begging for anyone who feels they have suffered at the hands of the npd to go on record alleging the abuse so you can go look into it. last time i checked, councilman furstenau has mad it very clear that he has been abused. any interviews with npd? i know that now they will direct interviews towards their attorneys, but there was a great deal of time that went by between furstenau's allegations and when they actually hired attorneys. any requests during that time?

im also confused why the sun needs an official, on the record, complaint to investigate the npd. take officer trotsky's dui. he gets pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the yellow line, refuses the blood test, gets arrested (all this info in the police report). then, not only does he get off for something anyone of us would have been hammered for, the npd then "leaks" out that the arresting officer, a sergeant, is now under investigation for distributing an inner npd document to the public. i took place several months before he arrested trotsky, and he was previously punished for it, and they tried to go back to it and fire him for it right after he arrested trotsky. doesn't that SCREAM "something fishy is going on" to the sun? why do you need permission from a formal complaint to look into that on your own?

2) you said basim esmail wants his privacy and to not have the story pursued, so who are you to continue the story and disrupt his privacy? are you kidding? need i bring up the entire fursetnau arrest and trial again? he certainly didn't like his name dragged through the "newspaper mud" everyday.

and why do you need to be asked by basim esmail before you will look into the actions of the npd, which appear to everyone else to be questionable or shady at the very least?

3) your not interested in pursuing a story alleging npd mistreatment in conjunction with a misdemeanor arrest? should i bring up the furstenau coverage again? you certainly pursued it then. it doesn't matter that it was a misdemeanor or that it was 18 months ago. abusing power by a police department is the story, not the misdemeanor arrest. and its a much bigger story. look into it.

you say you need ample evidence and not just a complaint. ample evidence is great, but if the complaint is serious enough, isn't it worth you time to look into it and try and find some evidence? isn't that what investigative reporting is?

4) THE NUMBER OF THREADS ON A POST MEANS NOTHING? are you serious. it should be a clear indication that this topic is one that people don't simply care about, they are passionate about. isn't that the kind of topic the newspaper should continue to pursue and facilitate? or are you going to just ignore the topics that everyone wants to learn more about and move onto something YOU THINK is more important.

honestly ted, i respect your whole body of work, but tonight you were way off base. you say you can't believe the beating you took tonight. well its because you are saying things that everyone disagrees with. many of your comments have been "joe" comments, as many people have pointed out. you are giving excuses or making pionts that don't make sense. one statement contradicts another. your perspective is: there is ample evidence we should move on. i disagree. your perspective that we should move on, is your ample opinion. everyone else here just disagrees with it. everyone here actually cares about this issue. they just don't understand why the sun doesn't.

Response from Ted:

Taxpayer,

What I've noticed is that every time a Napergate thread is about to pass from the home page, the participants get very agitated. It's like they're clinging to the belief that Basim Esmail is the only person ever in the history of Naperville who challenged the establishment and succeeded, and if a Napergate thread should pass from the home page the memory of that spirit of civic activism will be lost forever. There is genuine fear and desperation in the tone of the posts.

I tell you, everyone who participates here is capable of engaging in civic activism. But writing here on this blog does not count as civic activism. You say you want an investigation into brutality by the NPD, because many of the participants here say it exists. I say, nothing said here is verified. A bunch of people here could say teachers are beating up kids in the schools, The Sun should do something about it. That doesn't make it true, either. I think the NPD is wise to not respond to anything posted here, because if it did it would validate the claims and wild accusations that police officers are indiscriminately abusing innocent motorists.

I said in the beginning, after hearing Bob's account, I think from the sound of it that in that sole instance 18 months ago the officer who arrested Basim Esmail for driving on a suspended license probably abused his discretion and mistreated Esmail. Somehow we got from that tale, with its story line sympathetic toward the plight of an innocent pet, to calls for the police chief to resign. I just don't make the quantum leap from point A to point B.

An army of investigative reporters from the New York Times, Fox News and the Washington Post couldn't do the story you want us to report, which would say that Naperville police are a bunch of thugs going around picking on people. For starters, that army of investigative reporters would go to Basim Esmail, who would refuse to talk to them because he wants to put the whole matter behind him. Then they would go to the police chief, who would no doubt defend the practices, policies and procedures of the NPD. Then they'd track down the arresting officer, who would probably tell them, "Basim Who? I've arrested 467 people in the past 18 months, I have no recollection of the incident of which you speak."

I haven't heard anything in weeks that advances the discussion on this thread, just a lot of name-calling and bickering back and forth, people calling each other liars. The level of discourse has dropped below the standards we deem acceptable. Remember the rules: be civil, make your point, no foul language, and no personal attacks.

The comments of Host Ted that the number of comments a thread receives means nothing to the Naperville Sun are blatantly false.

I would like to see Moderator Jim come on and express his thoughts on Ted's ridiculous comments.

I do not know if Host Ted actually knows what the word credibility means. I suspect he does not if he is making such ludicrous and untrue comments.

Please don't allow Ted to destroy these threads, Moderator Jim!

He made a false and blatant statement to the bloggers and you should ask him to apolgize as his superior to us dedicated bloggers. I know you know that his above comments are false and you do care about the number of comments a thread gets.

If not, why bother to have this Bloggin Site. After all it is a site not only to read but to blog. That is how its success is measured. Sorry Ted, but you think we are guillible at times and you offend us with your nonsensical statements.

Response from Ted:

I have no idea what you are talking about. You do, however, illustrate how this discussion has deteriorated into nothing more than personal attacks, and provide ample evidence that it's time to move on.

Very nice observations and research on Ted's Blog, Maryann!

You seem to follow them very closely!

I fully agree with your well thought out opinions!

I hope Moderator Jim agrees with you, too and keeps these threads supercharged as Host Ted seems to care less sometimes.

I guess when he is having his beer after hours and he is not the same person he is between 9am-5pm. He seems to get moody and rebellious in the evenings! Just my observations! I like him in the day time a lot more!

Response from Ted:

Yikes, that sounds like a personal attack. I'm sitting here drinking vitamin water, straight up. Moody and rebellious, huh? Do me a favor and check out the election commission thread. I just spent half an hour composing a heartfelt reply to an L.A. blogger who was especially critical of our Sunday story.

Once again it seems like the bloggers are building huge momentum against the police dept and this thread is about to be trashed.

Host Ted once indicated the standard is two weeks!

It seems like if it is a Napergate Thread, Ted finds a way to remove it in one week. It has only been on 7 days averaging over 30 posts a day and Host Ted wants to dump it. Makes no sense to me!

I think it has been proven that the archives are for the most part storage facilities for old threads.

Response from Ted:

I'm not "dumping" it. We refresh the content as we see fit. Honestly, this thread is getting repetitive and seems ready to be retired. My goodness, I've repeated myself several times tonight alone!

Response from Ted:

The number of comments a thread receives means nothing to us. We didn't expect the post about Naperville's giving spirit to receive much in the way of comments. We thought it was a nice story to relate by a fellow blogger and worthy of sharing with our readers.


Ted,

Since we all read it and no one is bloggin about it, what is the point of keeping it on. How many times do you want us to read it. I think Maryann is making some very good points and you are ignoring her.

Well, I guess, you want to report to us next week, your posts are down to 500 a week and your views are down to 30,500. It does not seem like you want that to happen. So why not heed the advice of Maryann which has been proven to be on target and make your threads more successful without letting your EGO interfere when given very good advice from a very insightful blogger who is only trying to help you do better!

PS. If the number of comments a thread gets means nothing to you why did you brag about your numbers last week? Why did you delete dud threads in the past instead of leaving them on so your numbers would be horrific? You are really beginning to sound like a living CONTRADICTION!


Response from Ted:

You don't have to read it more than once, you can read it as many times as you like. Think of others who might be visiting for the first time and have yet to see it and appreciate the fine message within.

Response:

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Is Bob alleging he was mistreated by NPD? Hello? We still have no one saying in their own words that he suffered mistreatment by NPD. What is so difficult to understand? No complainant, no story.

Posted by: Farmsteadman | March 4, 2008 07:54 PM

******************************************************************

Host Ted,
You are beginning to look and sound a great deal like Joe. Always slicing and dicing your way out of your duties as an investigative reporters. You have the evidence and you want to pretend otherwise!

You have 2 eyewitnesses in Bob and Mike, you have Dunkin Donut employees and you choose not to expose the NPD for embellishing the 4:00am time on the police report.

When you allow these little embellishments to take place because you do not have them under a microscope, you are telling the NPD if you ever "FRAME" a resident we will look the other way.

You are making a great mistake, Host Ted, by not investigating, and making yourself look like you are afraid to investigate because maybe Chief David Dial is a columnist for your paper.

It all has a bad apppearance and gives the impression we are back to soft journalism and all we hear from you is WORDS while seeing no ACTION.

Response from Ted:

Sorry, Blake, you must have missed my numerous other responses on earlier threads, so I'll repeat myself. We're not interested in investigating a misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license that occurred 18 months ago, when the person who was arrested is not even interested in pursuing the matter.

Host Ted and Moderator Jim,

Since you have some threads such as "Naperville's Giving Spirit" that have had only one hit in 2 weeks, I suggest you archive that one and save this Napergate Thread a little longer.

It is not about pressure or anything like that. It is about giving the bloggers what they want. Your arguments that bloggers will continue to blog in the ARCHIVES are wishful thinking most times. The last time I looked the 2 Napergate Threads in the archives were stuck on 269 and 141 respectively for over 2 or 3 weeks. I hope you don't believe I have the power to tell 1000 bloggers not to blog on those sites in the archives to make me right! I do not have the power! That is just what happens! You see it! I see it! It is in black and white! I see no grey!

After Host Ted published his impressive numbers of 1000 posts and 61,000 views 2 weeks ago, I would like us bloggers to keep the momentum going to 2000 posts and 122,000 views. I want Ted's Threads to be very successful because only then will they have the impact of the Napergate Ads on City Officials. I believe the day is near....maybe very near! I am sure Host Ted will tell us when we break that 100,000 views in one week. That would be a big feat so I hope he tells us about it when it happens so we can extend our congratulations for his remarkable success!

There are a few other dud threads on this Main Page and I will let Ted and Jim make their own calculations as to what is best for the Naperville Sun and its bloggers.

I am not going to deny that I like the Napergate Man as many other do. That should be very obvious! But I also want to see the Naperville Sun succeed and return to its old glory and be an effective hard hitting investigative newspaper as it was in the Napergate Era.( I am considering the Napergate ads as part of the Naperville Sun when I make such a comment so I hope no one calls me out on that statement)

The library thread has not had a post for 6 days which should indicate your promotion of it elsewhere on line is not as powerful as the Main Page. It appears most of us have the Main Page saved on our favorites and that is why we end up here so easily!

I think we all have to admit this MAIN PAGE is powerful and where bloggers go to blog about important issues concerning us. It helps your numbers immensely if you have the right threads on your Main Page. Local threads are much more popular than National threads as we all observed repeatedly!

I think it is important to keep your numbers up on your very successful threads as you try to keep your numbers up on your print subscriptions.

I agree with the bloggers who say it is not any of my business. That is why I only speak when I feel the Naperville Sun is about to drop a very hot thread that should not be dropped. If the Naperville Sun dropped its threads with only one hit, I would never say a word. But it puzzles me that the Naperville Sun is not doing all that is has in its power to make these threads the most successful threads in Chicagoland.

People in Naperville have migrated in large numbers from Eric Zorn and Greta's threads to Ted and Jim threads. I recognize dozens of names. When I am missing in action I am on Zorn's threads. But I no longer go to Greta's thread as d. bone characters destroyed those beyond repair.

I wish Host Ted and Moderator Jim nothing but the best in their success with this Blog Site. If I were trying to sabotage their good work, I would advise them to place 10 dud threads on the Main Page and migrate to Zorn's threads.

I believe I suggested this thread with good intentions and it has been their most successful thread of the last week. It seems it got more hits than all the other threads combined on the Main Page. Hopefully they will keep this thread on a little longer and replace their few duds and get some momentum going for the 2000 hits per week and over 100,000 page views. I do not think we are that far off from that happening. Ten good threads like this Napergate Thread and we are at 2110(10 times 211 the posts on this Napergate thread). The math is simple! We are not that far off! It is purely about selection of good threads that interest significant bloggers. The bloggers are available! They need the right topics!

Sincerely,

Maryann

PS. I should also not this Napergate thread was very busy even though it did not have an accompanying article in the print edition. The Piano Man thread had an accompanying article in the print edition and only had ONE REAL POST in weeks. Joe did it to avoid embarrassment and Host Ted's should not count!

Response from Ted:

The number of comments a thread receives means nothing to us. We didn't expect the post about Naperville's giving spirit to receive much in the way of comments. We thought it was a nice story to relate by a fellow blogger and worthy of sharing with our readers.

Response from host:
Taxpayer, your vague references to "many public conflicts which have taken place over the years" paints us with a fairly broad brush. No 1, this blog has been in existence less than a year. No. 2, you are commenting anonymously, so if you have asked The Sun to investigate specific NPD complaints "over the years" please refresh my memory with any phone calls, letters to the editor or other contact you may have made with us. Finally, we've said it before, and we'll say it again. If someone wants to go on the record with a specific recent complaint about the NPD we'll listen. It cannot be second-hand. My phone number is 630-416-5255 and my e-mail is tslowik@scn1.com.

Posted by: taxpayer | March 4, 2008 05:57 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Host Ted,
Bob was on the scene is NOT a second-hand account. He was better than a first-hand account as he was not under duress and emotional. Basim was very emotional because of his dog, Abby! Bob's account would be much better than Basim's account. Mike who picked him up upon his release is on the other side of the scene and gave you his detailed account which I believe was as AMAZING as Bob's even though a little shorter1

I believe you said their reports were both credible. They had no reason to lie about the exit time. They knew nothing about the police report time of 4am. They and Dunkin Donuts' employees can shoot that 4am to shreds. But your newspaper chooses not to do investigative reporting when you have the apparently embellished police report in front of your eyes and posted on your thread. The bloggers are laying the inconsistencies out for you and you are not willing to investigate them. You have both Mike and Bob's e-mail address and real names. Contact them directly! They are real people! Not full time bloggers! What more do you want, Ted!

I think there is an understanding as TAXPAYER hinted to leave the Naperville Police Dept. alone. And it makes your jobs very difficult and intimidating to confront the Chief of Police since he is a Columnist in your newspaper. He should never have been allowed to be a columnist as it has the APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST even though it may not be. You should remove him immediately as a start to regaining credibility with your readers.

We have accepted Tim West even though his wife works for the Brestal Law Firm. Now you want us to also accept Chief David Dial! And everything just got worse with one of your reporters went to work for the city. I know she will do a good and honest job! But there will be reluctance to hold a former reporter to the expected standards of a City Official who did not rise through the ranks of the Naperville Sun. I am not saying this last situation is wrong or can be helped. I just hope it works out where you are not reluctant to put her under the microscope when necessary.

But also these relationships even if innocent, have the appearance that the Naperville Sun is married to the City of Naperville. With the Napergate Ads we had no such appearances of conflicts! Just hard hitting journalism and investigative reporting that we all loved. Yes, I also could not wait to pick up my morning edition of the Naperville Sun during the Napergate Era to read the latest Napergate Ads. I am sure that has something to do with the decline in readership. You have to admit it had something to do with the 33% decline while we had a 50% population explosion in our town!

Many residents told you this in not only about the Napergate Man. It is about US! So please do some hard hitting investigative journalism and make us readers and bloggers grateful for your efforts....just once PLEASE!!!

Response:

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Is Bob alleging he was mistreated by NPD? Hello? We still have no one saying in their own words that he suffered mistreatment by NPD. What is so difficult to understand? No complainant, no story.

The Naperville Police Department has both a phone number and an address. Phone calls and letters can both be sent anonymously, for those who lack the temerity to confront the NPD directly. Perhaps if every blogger who's criticized the police department for their silence and/or demanded the Sun take action were, instead, to phone or write, you might get the response you seek.

nikki

your complaint about the sun not attempting to approach the npd for comment during controversial issues has been a long time complaint of mine as well. the hosts can attest to that.

Posted by: taxpayer | March 4, 2008 05:57 PM

Taxpayer,
It has also been a long time complaint of mine and many other residents. It does seem like Host Ted is thinking of every excuse possible to avoid having a ONE on ONE interview with Chief Dial not only about the Napergate Man's case in particular but to get a better understanding of DISCRETION and how it needs to be applied fairly across the board to all our residents.

We need an interview in which we ask Police Chief Dial to put an end to the Blue Code of Silence and Professional Courtesy!!!

We need an interview to understand why our INTERNAL AFFAIRS dept. is looked at as having a public relations role instead of a real duty to discipline rouge cops like this Sergeant Greg Bell who ABUSED HIS DISCRETION in an unimaginable way!

Most of these issues have nothing to do with the Napergate Man or what he wants or does not want. All he has been is a good catalyst to this conversation. It is undisputed that he does bring interest and debate to any thread that he is a part of. And many debaters to boot! Napergatians like to put our city under the microscope just like Council Man Dick Furstenau! What is wrong with that?

So we should use the interest he generates as a catalyst to learn more about our Naperville Police Dept. which seems to be in hibernation 12 months a year as far as public relations with residents. We need to get them out of their very long hibernation. Even a bear eventually comes out of hibernation. Does Chief David Dial believe he can hibernate till his retirement and 75% pension is locked up? Is he keeping quiet on demand by City Council Members so he will also obtain his "parachute to boot" and whatever loans he may or may not owe the city? Only time will reveal the truth! But the truth will be revealed!


PS. Your thoughts are very insightful, Mr. Taxpayer! Thanks for joining this debate!

Robert,

Do you own homework and fight your own fights. If you want action, make it happen.
If you want quotes, go searching. I bet your browser has the same Find command mine does.

The difference is you believe an injustice happened and I do not.


Ben,

Yes, we all agree that the Toll authority makes mistakes. Now, armed with that knowledge, what can YOU do to help hedge your bet against such a mistake? I never liked the idea of an IPass. I don't like big brother to have a record of where I go and when any more than they need to. But, I found that a small price to pay (literally, it's only a float of money that nets out to $0.00 cost to you) to ensure that a toll violation does not escalate into something major and put myself or my family into the possibility of being in a similar situation.

I'm not relying on everyone else to get it right to safeguard myself. Mistakes happen. Data gets fat-fingered, people transpose numbers, databases don't get updated. It's an unfortunate fact of life. Since these things have the potential to create havoc in your life, guard yourself accordingly. There has been more than enough information posted here on how to actually do that.

The other thing to do is comb your mail often. Important things sometimes get stuffed into the middle of advertising. It's annoying as heck, but it happens. Visually look at everything every day. You never know when Uncle Sam might be sending you an Audit Notice. It's not worth the risk to throw or set aside things that could loop back around and bite you in the butt.

I suspect everyone complaining on here about NPD has never had the luxury of living in a place where the cops really are crooked. Trust me, you have no idea what you are talking about if you think NPD is bad. They are saints compared to many place where I have lived in my life. I suppose I shouldn't blame ignorance. It just is.

Response from host:

We will gladly confront the department with the challenge you seek the minute someone who has experienced such a situation and who is willing to go on the record with their own first-hand account of such a situation.

Posted by: Nikki | March 4, 2008 05:46 PM

******************************************************************

Host Ted,
His friend Bob who witnessed the whole incident as an eye witness on the scene with visual and audio abilities from feet away, gave you a blow by blow report as if it was a soccer game. You called the report AMAZING! It has I recall over 50 points describing the event minute by minute if not 15 second by 15 second!

You have what you need to go forward! It sounds like you are a little intimidated like the rest of us! I guess you and Moderator Jim are human and we may be asking a bit too much from you guys!

You have a very good first hand account of the situation. You even felt Bob and Mike were credible. One time you said yourself that something had gone wrong that fateful evening and maybe even to the effect Basim was mistread or not treated fairly. I can not recall with certainty but I am sure someone will dig up your quote and post it since this site seems active with many bloggers! I think your hunch turned out right now that the police report is out and does not state Basim mouthed off in any way or vocally or physically resisted arrest!

Maybe Joe can be productive, dig up your earlier comments of mistreatment on this case, and do something good for once instead of antagonizing other bloggers. Maybe he could get out from 6 feet under if he did some good helpful deeds and be 6 feet over one day!


Response from host:

When Bob files a lawsuit on Basim's behalf, or at least registers a formal complaint with the NPD, which would trigger a paper trail that we could follow, then we'd have something to go on. In the meantime, sorry, a blog post does not count as sufficient official documentation.

Host Ted,
I really don't think this is about Basim. It is more about residents in general wanting to understand our rights if we are caught between a rock and a hard place.

It is also about police officers having the expertize to do a professional and honorable job when caught between a rock and hard place.

I would be outraged if my wife was arrested while with our 4 children and the police hand cuffed my wife in front of my 4 children. I need to know how this discretion is exercised in our town!

What happened to the Napergate Man is water under the bridge as they say? He obviously accepted whatever happened to him and has chosen to move on!

But the residents have not accepted what happened to him because they fear it could happen to them. I think it has been estbalished that the Tollway Authority and Emissions make many mistakes. Joe, the Napergate Man's friends, Quick Question and others have all relayed stories of incompetence at that Authority!

Response from host:

In order to do what you ask, we need someone --anyone-- willing to go on the record with a story of recent mistreatment at the hands of Naperville police, someone who hopefully followed up by filing a formal complaint. Does anybody know anyone willing to do that? How many traffic stops must the Naperville police make in a day? Multiply that by the number of days in a year. That's thousands of traffic stops. And we hear of one example of alleged mistreatment, by someone who apparently does not want the matter pursued. It seems to me that if there was rampant abuse by the NPD someone, anyone would come forward with a complaint. Has anyone personally experienced abuse by NPD? Anyone?

Mr. Joe,

You come on like you know it all! Like you are a perfectionist!
Like you are a doer!

Like you could be the next Napergate Man!

Why don't you try your luck and try to create a grass roots movement to stop the library thread.

I did actually hear through the grapevine that the Napergate Man met with Patti Roberts, Executive Director of the Downtown Naperville Alliance some time last week, in an effort to persuade her to flip her position on the library deck! At this point it is an unconfimrmed rumor but I believe it may have happened last Wednesday or Thursday afternoon in the Promenade Building downtown.

What have you done lately, Mr. Joe, other than agitate a bunch of bloggers? NOTHING!

Hey Rash,

You are as self centered as d.bone. At least he admitted he is self centered. You are a guy that is so hungry for your 15 minutes of fame....almost obsessed with yourself!

Why don't you go to a good deed that benefits society and let your 15 mintues of attention be earned instead of stolen.

Nice job Marilyn! Go girl!

What a way to put pressure to call them out?

If calling them chickens and cowards is the way to bring our NPD to communicate with us, let us call them chickens and cowards unitl they come out.

If you ask me they seem like they have something to hide regarding this latest Napergate Man arrest. It smells like a SKUNK and usually if the smell is there a SKUNK can be found!

Response from host:

Yes, latest arrest, that happened 18 months ago. A misdemeanor arrest for driving on a suspended license wouldn't even make out police blotter if it happened last week. Now, if Basim Esmail really felt he was mistreated, and he pursued a case against the city of Naperville with a lawsuit or formal complaint, there would be a paper trail we could start with. Please understand, it seems Basim Esmail is not interested in pursuing the matter. Who are we to go against his wishes?

Host Ted: Nikki, have you approached Chief Dial and asked to speak to him about your concerns? Tried calling him? Considered addressing him at a city council meeting? You gotta show a little effort.


Mr. Ted,
I think you are asking a young lady with out the required savvy needed to take on the police chief. That would be a little intimidating. As an older man I also don't feel like I have the required savvy.

I believe this is better suited for professional and distinguished reporters like you and Moderator Jim.

Let me reverse the question!

Have you guys ever attempted to call the Chief and have a 3 hour discussion with him, just like you did with DF? I think the Chief of Police is acting like a MASKED MAN.

The Napergate Man has spoken to us through his friends and through Napergate ads. He communicated very well thru 2 decades of Napergate ads. But Chief Dial is a police chief who doe not communicate or wish to communicate about issues that concern the residents!

In his latest 2 opinions the chief praises an injured cop and talks about Homeland Security. I don't see Naperville being attacked by Russia or an IRANIAN missile in the next century....do you?

But the Napergage Man issues can happen to us TOMORROW!

PS. Do you guys know if a cop was injured on a motorcycle accident to cause the delays that led to the Napergate Man spending the night in jail? This would be a great question to ask. These Mike and Bob guys seems like honest easy going people!
They don't seem like a Joe, who is here for attention and thrills!


Response from host:

The minute Basim Esmail asks us to confront the NPD about a misdemeanor arrest that occurred 18 months ago, we'll do it.

I know nothing of the motorcycle accident you mention.

nikki

your complaint about the sun not attempting to approach the npd for comment during controversial issues has been a long time complaint of mine as well. the hosts can attest to that.

it just seems strange that they will jump all over the slightest story of controversy that involves an ordinary citizen or an elected official, but they don't even approach or investigate the npd amid many public conflicts which have taken place over the years. it baffles me, and i have complained and challenged them to do so on may occasions. the only possible explanation i can think of is that they don't care, or there is some mutual agreement between them to leave the npd alone. i have no idea.

it just seems logical that they would, at the VERY LEAST, attempt to approach npd and seek comment during controversial situations where the npd appears they may have some explaining to do.

eric and jenny,
im glad you enjoyed my joe post. and jenny, thank you for coming up with joe's new nickname - Mr. Rash! thats awesome!


Response from host:
Taxpayer, your vague references to "many public conflicts which have taken place over the years" paints us with a fairly broad brush. No 1, this blog has been in existence less than a year. No. 2, you are commenting anonymously, so if you have asked The Sun to investigate specific NPD complaints "over the years" please refresh my memory with any phone calls, letters to the editor or other contact you may have made with us. Finally, we've said it before, and we'll say it again. If someone wants to go on the record with a specific recent complaint about the NPD we'll listen. It cannot be second-hand. My phone number is 630-416-5255 and my e-mail is tslowik@scn1.com.

Host Ted,

To be honest, Ted, most civilians are intimidated by the Police.
I think the police in this town are even more intimidating because there are no communication avenues that exist.

Let us face it! None of us are Napergate Man and Woman! This Napergate Man put a lot at risk when he blasted the Naperville Police Departement for so many years.

I am sure his second revocation was more punishment for challenging them on the first revocation. Our police dept. does retaliate against those who stand up to it. This latest arrest appears to be more PAYBACK and RETALIATION. No other wasy to explain! The silence of the NPD is confirming my BELIEFS that he was abused that fateful evening as Host Ted coined it.

Thus is it better the Naperville Sun stand up to them! It is hard to retaliate against the Naperville Sun. The Napergate Man taught us all the power of INK! The Naperville Sun has tons of it and us residents have no INK POWER! The Naperville Sun needs to open communication with the NPD in the the best way they know possible! That is all we are asking!

Response from host:

Nikki, you get Basim Esmail to sit down with us, tell us what he experienced, and the minute we hear him say he'd like the PD confronted we'll do it. Because unless I'm mistaken, he has no interest in pursuing the matter, so why should we go against the wishes of such a highly regarded citizen. Think about it. It would be impossible to do what you ask without bringing Esmail's name into the conversation, and Esmail clearly wants his privacy. So let it go.

Moderator Jim,
This is a story the Naperville Sun posted for blogging. Apparently many people find it a serious story. A very serious story!

They want to know in advance how they will be treated if they are stopped for an emission or tollway violation with kids or animals in the car and no other adult. We don't want what happened to the Napergate Man to happen to us, our kids or animals! We want assurances of proper treatment since people and government bodies both make mistakes. Even Joe is now saying the Tollway Authority made a mistake. Why not now believe that the Napergate Man did get his notice after the suspension since his greatest critic Joe, indicated the TOLLWAY can be incompetent!

I do not want my dog and children undergoing unncessary anxiety in such a circumstances.

The Naperville Sun has a spokesperson. They have a communication person. They must have a liason to the community.
They must have a liason to the press.

I do believe there is a Deputy Chief named Vincent that is in charge of keeping good relations between the community and the police. He is not being exploited to improve relations by the Naperville Sun!

I think the residents want the Naperville Sun to ask if DISCRETION exists in our department and to provide you the written codes of how it is to be used? Is that asking much?


Response from host:

We will gladly confront the department with the challenge you seek the minute someone who has experienced such a situation and who is willing to go on the record with their own first-hand account of such a situation.

James,

If you interpret my posts incorrectly, there's really not much I can do about that. People tend to read what they want to read. The same thing happened w/ the $50 background search in another thread. I make a reference to one and everyone started repeating it as if it was an actual event that transpired and away it took off like it was truth. It took off so well I wasn't about to squash it because people started pouring more and more details into the thread beyond anyone's wildest dreams. I only mentioned that it's amazing what one could find out from one, not that I actually did it. But watch, I'll be accused now of lying about saying I did one when I never said I actually did one.

Thats how the formula works on here. People say you say something then when you negate what they claim they call you a liar. This place is great for a chuckle morning noon and night it seems.

Taxpayer,

Honestly, that was a great description of the alien. I will never respond to him again. Thanks for that CLASSIC!

The more I think about this case the more I am outraged! The more silence that comes out of that NPD Building the guiltier I believe they are! I think we need to keep calling the NPD out until they come out. Sadly, I really believe we need to justifiably smear the reputation of the NPD in a way it will never forget. The reason for that is to teach them that they need to communicate with the citizens of Naperville who pay their salaries in full on a very timely basis. Have we ever been late with your paychecks, Mr. and Ms. Police Officers? Not once! So show some respect to your employers and communicate to us your rules and regulations in dealing with us "inferior beings."

We need to let our police dept. know we do not like cowards who abuse their discretion and hide. We want brave police officers who can back what they do when called to explain. Not cowards who hide when they commit the act of ABUSE OF DISCRETION.

Posted by: Marilyn | March 4, 2008 07:17 AM

Marilyn,
I felt your above comments were right on target! I think it is time for our police dept to finally smell the same coffee, we all drink!

Taxpaer,
I loved your comments describing Mr. Rash. I promise you I will never say that sickos name ever again!

I would really like to see Host Ted and Moderator Jim ask the police department to come out and speak to us.

I would think as professional reporters you would be by far the most disturbed that a professional Police Dept, is unwilling to communicate to the residents through the press.

The fact that you are not helping over a 100 bloggers in demanding that our Police Dept. speak to us, makes it seem like you are happy with the STATUS QUO in our town and would like to see things run just as they have in the PAST.

It appears to me TED and JIM are not attempting to bring change that would better our COMMUNITY! It almost appears they simply don't CARE!


Moderator Jim: Meet who? Meet where? Who are the 100 bloggers? Where are you going to meet? What do you really want us to do?


Host Ted: Nikki, have you approached Chief Dial and asked to speak to him about your concerns? Tried calling him? Considered addressing him at a city council meeting? You gotta show a little effort.

Why is it so hard to believe our police department discriminates.

Did not both ATT and the IABTF both indicate so in their reports?

Did not both Federal Courts and State Courts conclude they abused discretion and in essence discriminated against the Napergate Man?

Did Randy not publish information from a Napergate ad in which the NPD was accused of discriminating with cases numbers from Police Records and Dupage Records?

Is it really not obvious to anyone when the liquor store owner who has the best record in town(confiscates many times the IDs as all his competitors combined), won a National Title for best responsible liquor store, had Appellant Judges praise him, is the only one who has had his license REVOKED not once but TWICE!

Very odd if you ask me!!!

All you do Joe is lie, lie, and lie and then try to cover your lies, lies, and more lies!

You are a despicable grown man who likes to cause trouble!

Shame on you for attempting to hold the Napergate Man's daughter to a standard you can not uphold for yourself.

Suddenly you admit you have 4 violations, after initially leading us to believe you only had one!

I would like to see our spineless police dept speak up.

First they brought shame to Naperville by abusing the Napergate Man and his dog.

Now they bring more shame by refusing to say a word about the incident.

If they did nothing wrong they should be speaking and explaining their behavior.

It even sounds like the time on the report was embellished.

And can they verify a police officer was seriously injured that evening on a motorcycle that resulted in the Napergate Man spending the night in jail.

If no police officer was injured in a motorcycle accident as Mike stated, than we have a police department that is now LYING!

And if a police officer was injured in a motorycycle accident would not the Naperville Sun have covered it? Would not moderator Jim known about it? Do you know anything Jim about a police officer being injured in a serious motorcylce accident in the summer of 2006? I think it is important to find out IF our police dept. is lying to us.

If it turns out they are lying and embellishing, I say we clean house and call in the National Guard until we can hire 300 new officers. We may need to start fresh to get rid of the cancer known as the Code Of Blue!

I do not want a department that lies....Sworn officers that lie do not belong on our streets or even in our City Limits.

The NPD with their silence are acting no different than criminals who exercise their right to remain silent!

What comes around goes around?

Let us hope no large earthquake comes by and takes that entire police building down!

We buy our police a Taj Mahal and spoil them and they won't even speak to us.

I am very ashamed of my police deptartment. It is really disgusting!

He also seems to have some deep rooted jealousies towards the Napergate Man. Hard to explain but when you want to be the center of attention you will attempt to destroy the center of attention so you can replace him or her. That is what Joe is doing on a consious or subsconcious basis.

Posted by: Margaret | March 4, 2008 08:09 AM'
----------------------------

No, what I am torpedoing is the stupid 'conclusions' and inconsistencies people are putting forth trying to make a 'case' for 'fascism', 'conspiracies' and 'discrimination' by saying a citizen wasn't given any preferential treatment for a repeat offense. Wow, every so often I almost have to stop and remind myself that we're not talking about DF. The 'battle cry' sounds way to familiar I have to admit.


everyone who hates joe

you should do what several of us learned a while back. don't respond to joe or even read his posts. you are all frustrated because he says things that don't make sense, twists around your words and intent, changes directions hourly, and only appears to try and irritate people. you all know this. its why you are so frustrated with him. HE IS LIKE A RASH. THE MORE YOU SCRATCH IT, THE MORE IT ITCHES AND BOTHERS YOU. SCRATCHING THE ITCH WON'T MAKE IT GO AWAY. IT GETS WORSE.

life is so much better since i started to act as if joe doesn't exist. i can't tell you how much better i have been able to sleep at night. im happier during the day. im more pleasant for my wife to be around. food tastes better, the sun feels warmer. the winter is less cold. its a wonderful life without joe in it.

free your minds people. i urge you to free yourself from the insanity that is joe. rise above him. IGNORE HIM

This is way too funny now.

First, people are mad and up in arms because they claim that the police force gives preferential treatment to some people and that needs to stop because it's wrong.
One only has to read all about the "Well, what if Officer/Mayor/Councilperson was stopped... that wouldn't happen" hypothetical garbage in other threads.

Now, they are so angry because someone didn't get preferential treatment that they felt should have gotten it and now call that lack of preferential treatment (That they already put forth as WRONG) Fascism. Make up your minds, please. You can't even stand on the very foundation you originally put forth and have to flip/flop all the way through bouncing back and forth like a pinball bouncing off the bumpers. Favoritism/Preferential treatment is bad.. No wait, it's Bad not to get it.. oh wait, it's bad.. no, it's bad not to get it. Thank you for my morning laugh.

It's obvious that some people are just not happy in life and need to broadcast vile, inconsistent and mostly unfounded conclusions and juvenile language towards city officials.

As Ted and Jim have said: Take your grievances to a City Council Meeting and air them. Better yet, print out any rant on this blog and go read your own words in person to the whole city and everyone watching at home. If life is as bad as you pretend it to be in this city then get off your *ahem* and do something about it.

E-Thugging on a newspaper site blog isn't going to accomplish anything. As for me.. I'm quite happy here in this town and the job that our police force is doing. It's nice not having to worry about the safety in your neighborhood.

Seems a little unusual that a local resident would not just I-bond out. There is much more to this story, continue with the good investigative reporting.

Posted by: Jim | February 26, 2008 06:47 PM

******************************************************************

I agree with you...something has to break to get us out of the lockjam we are currently in. Not sure what but I think something has to break soon as to what this story is really about and why the Napergate Man was handled in this very unusual way!

I believe you will all succeed in bringing out the Chief of Police sooner rather than later if you choose your words carefully.

The right choice of words will bring him out.

Calling him a fascist will not bring him out!

Stating his Sergeant abused his discretion will eventually bring him out.

Let us keep it civil on these blogs and everything will finally work out!!!

As the saying goes...

Silence is deafening!

The NPD needs to speak up before nothing is left of its reputation, credibility, honor and dignity!

There is a reason for a Spokesperson and it is a shame he/she is not being put to use to quell this charade if it is not true!

I think Joe is a man looking for his 15 minutes of fame on these blogs. This man has very low self esteem and needs constant attention. I am surprised he is still not being breast fed!

I think people need to ignore him as he is trying to manipulate the discussion away from the issues towards himself in order to be the center of attention.

I am surprised the Host and Moderator allow Joe to do what he does on these blogs.

It is very obvious he distorts anything anyone says in an attempt to make his points. But you would think a grown man would realize that honesty is the best policy!

He also seems to have some deep rooted jealousies towards the Napergate Man. Hard to explain but when you want to be the center of attention you will attempt to destroy the center of attention so you can replace him or her. That is what Joe is doing on a consious or subsconcious basis.

I am surprised Chief David Dial is allowing his department to be smeared and ridiculed in this way day and night before more than 60,000 weekly viewers on the Sun Blogs.

He needs to come out and either apologize to the Napergate Man or say we treated him as we treat any other citizen in similar circumstances!

If he can do neither, this would be sign of a very weak POLICE CHIEF who may be in his lame duck years looking for his pension.
It may also indicate the Napergate Man was wronged and the Police Chief is terrified another lawsuit may be coming from a resident with a history of winning litigation against the city and police!

I suggest the City Council give him his pension early and look for a stronger Chief to lead our fine men and women in blue.

I see this as a case of a police dept. between a rock and a hard place.

If they speak and say they treated the Napergate Man the same as they treat all others in similar situations, it will most probably backfire. People would come out of the woodworks and state it ain't so because this is what happened to me in similar circumstances. "I was only booked and sent home with no handcuffs or jail required." This could lay the foundation for a civil rights lawsuit for the Napergate Man assuming the statute of limitations has not expired yet.

If they don't speak, people will continue bashing them for mistreating and abusing the Napergate Man.

In order to avoid being between a rock and a hard place Chief David Dial must provide better training for his police officers as soon as possible. If not provided and we have another such fiasco, the cry for the Chief's head will even be LOUDER!

I DO NOT BELIEVE A SINGLE WORD UTTERED OUT OF JOE'S MOUTH. THIS MAN IS VERY UNUSUAL. HE WILL ARGUE WITH THE DEVIL ONE DAY AND THE NEXT DAY HE WILL ARGUE WITH GOD. HE ARGUES FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING. I URGE PEOPLE TO IGNORE HIM!

"So, Samantha called out Liebert as a liar because IPass existed since 1993."

Joe, are you really senile to say this..???

D. bone under his new name called you a liar because you said I-PASS existed in the early 1980s. Samantha never called Liebert a liar. You are hallucinating!

I am beginning to realize you have a serious case of Alzheimers.

Since this is a serious disease, I urge all bloggers to stop attakcing Joe. He is very ill! Leave him alone so he can get treatement!

Anonymous,
First, I suggest you get any name so we can address you and get to know you. There are too many anonymous residents on these blogs. I wish Host Ted and Moderator Jim would force people to pick a name as opposed to being anonymous. Any name will keep anyone anonymous but yet have an identity different from other bloggers.

Secondly, why don't you have your buddy Sergeant Greg Bell speak to us bloggers. His name was been revealed on the police report attached to this thread from Day One! Not one person wanted to smear his name on these blogs. I believe I am the first to mention his name. If people were against him, I think they would have been attacking him personally day and night by his posted name. I think most people are against the NPD for failing to administer the proper training to Sergeant Bell. He has failed in his ability to use his discretion and we want him retrained. Is that asking a lot?

Why don't you tell us about the accomplishments of your friend, Sergeant Greg Bell, Mr. Anonymous. We would all like to learn a little about him. Better still have him come on this thread to explain the need to hand cuff an American Hero who won a National Award for providing so much help to the Naperville Police by confiscating nearly a 1000 fraudulent IDs in the last decade or two! Your friend is a Sergeant! He has been around for a decade. So he had to know who the Napergate Man was when he abused him that night!

Why did Sergeant Greg Bell abuse his discretion in handling the Napergate Man? How does he exercise his discretion normally? Why has he allowed other Naperville Residents to voluntarily turn themselves in for booking while he felt a need to handcuff, humiliate, arrest and jail the Napergate Man overnight? Does your friend, Sergeant Greg Bell hate animals? Does he not realized he tortured Abby that night by leading her to believe his friend Bob was stealing her and she would never see her beloved owner again? Does he care? If he is not going to apologize to the Napergate Man is he going to at least apologize to Abby? He could have bought her a bag of bones and told her he was sorry? But no this Sergeant does not want to show he is a loving human being who cares for animals and civilians? He just wants to play tough cop on the street, abuse citizens and feed his authority ego and inferior complex!

Why do you wish the NPD would speak out, Mr. Anonymous? Why don't you ask your friend to speak out? He is a MAN who should be able to speak out for himself and explain his actions. He can speak out after hours. The NPD can not muzzle away his First Amendment rights when he is not working. So we would like to hear from him about that fateful evening!

If Sergeant Greg Bell is not allowed to talk, why don't you tell us his version of events. It does not sound like the Napergate Man cussed him out. He indicated he did not in his report by not mentioning it. It does not sound like the Napergate Man threatened him. He indicated he did not in his report by not mentioning it. It does not sound like the Napergate Man invoked Chief David Dial's name in a wrongful or intimidating way.

All the Napergate Man said was that Chief David Dial allows discretion and he would like some discretion shown him so he could take Abby home. Did this statement flip out Sergeant Greg Bell? Apparently it did! Is he qualified to be a Sergeant if he will not allow a civilian to mention some facts and ask for some courtesy to take his dog home before turning himself in for booking, fingerprinting and I-Bonding?

The more I think about this case the more I am outraged! The more silence that comes out of that NPD Building the guiltier I believe they are! I think we need to keep calling the NPD out until they come out. Sadly, I really believe we need to justifiably smear the reputation of the NPD in a way it will never forget. The reason for that is to teach them that they need to communicate with the citizens of Naperville who pay their salaries in full on a very timely basis. Have we ever been late with your paychecks, Mr. and Ms. Police Officers? Not once! So show some respect to your employers and communicate to us your rules and regulations in dealing with us "inferior beings."

We need to let our police dept. know we do not like cowards who abuse their discretion and hide. We want brave police officers who can back what they do when called to explain. Not cowards who hide when they commit the act of ABUSE OF DISCRETION.

My feeling is that we need to notch it up. Either the NPD comes out or we are going to ruin their reputation on these blogs and call them cowards and chickens. Only cowards and chickens refuse to defend themselves. Our NPD is acting like cowards and chickens and I am fed up with this behavior.

They have a spokesman that never speaks! That sounds useless! Lay him or her off and save us taxpayers some money since a spokesman who does not speak is a USELESS waste of money.

Yes, this Sun blog site got 61,000 views last week, Mr. Police Chief. In a few weeks it will register 100,000 views in a week. Do you think Host Ted is fabricating numbers? I assure you he is not. Those are computer generated numbers. Smell the coffee Chief Dial and realize these are the Napergate ads of the 21st century and you can not ignore them as you did not ignore those Napergate ads.

So in a few weeks the whole town will know that we are calling our NPD cowards and chickens because they will not speak to us and defend their inappropriate actions.

Yes, the police are tough on the street when they have guns on them and us civilians are unarmed. But they can not debate us without their guns. How very sad! All their power apparently is in their guns and not in their brains. I am challenging the NPD to show me I am wrong by speaking to me using brain power.
Your silence is deafening and tiring! But trust me as long as Host Ted and Moderator Jim allow us to blog we will continue to attack you and have no respect for you until you come out and speak to us on this forum. This is a very fair forum where we are all equal and have equitable access. You need to learn to speak to the residents you are defending while unarmed. Is that asking much? Is that an unreasonable request? Time to stop the silence or suffer the ramifications to your reputation!

Marilyn,

I'll answer your questions.

1) You register a vehicle in case you a) forget it in that vehicle. If the plate is registered and you go through a toll booth where it doesn't work right (not in vehicle, or error) they will AUTO-DEDUCT if from your account. (This was my case). I have 1 transponder and make a good effort to have it in the vehicle I use when I use the tollway. Sometimes, it is in another vehicle that is out and about which another family member is driving. You can 'miss' it and still have it ding your account properly. In my case, one of my vehicles was in their system with the improper PLATE TYPE and the auto-deduct feature was not working as it should. Problem fixed w/ 1 quick phone call.

2) I never said it was only 1 missed toll. There were multiple on the notices. I had said I got a single notice.

3) It's Toll + $20 for each violation unless there is an error on THEIR PART. The error was THEIRS because the plate-type was in their system wrong (entered improperly by an employee). I did my part correctly and listed all 3 license plates on my account. When I registered the plates to the transponder I called them up in 2000 and they added them over the phone. If it was a case where I did not have my plate on the account, I would have been responsible for the Toll + $20 each. SInce I did register it properly but they denoted the wrong PLATE TYPE in their system, they ate the cost of the notice that should not have gone out in the first place.

4) If the van his daughter used was registered to the transponder, she would have never needed to carry the transponder with her. The auto-deduct would/should have happened. This is a red herring because you are trying to argue a set of conditions that was never prior said to have happened. Same question to you as to Samantha: Was the van registered to an iPass or not? If Not, the toll violation procedure was proper as was the followup action. If it was registered and their system burped, 1 phone call would have stopped the whole license suspension mess back at the beginning.

5) How you choose to handle your tolls is up to you. Obviously, based on input here, everyone handles it differently. Some take advantage of technology, some pay double, some try to not pay at all. Your choice.

6) When I first suggested that this whole problem could have been solved initially by having an IPASS everyone jumped on my case:

Liebert: "... and his daughter did not have a few coins on her a few nights when she was on our highways before the age of transponders and I-PASS"

Marybeth: "If his daughters only use the toll booth every few months it may not make economic sense to buy them a transponder."

So, Samantha called out Liebert as a liar because IPass existed since 1993.

Samantha calls out Marybeth as a liar because the transponder charge would have been cheaper than a suspended license.

Enjoy your Tuesday.

Good Morning bloggers,

Joe was on another lying ramapage yesterday!

This is all Samantha said in her short post:

"The Napergate Man had an I-PASS but it was not registered in his daughter's vehicle. Only his! He owned up to it and took responsibility! You sound like you tried to sweet talk your way out of your responsibility. How shameful, Joe!"

Everything else Joe said in his post that Samantha said is a lie and fabricated. I can not believe one person can fabricate so much in a post as Joe did! It seems like this freak of nature wants to force feed words in people's mouths.


Some points:


1. If an I-PASS can work in any vehicle why bother registering each vehicle to it. Just take it in the vehicle you are driving. It is that simple. No need to register as Joe wants us to do! What a waste of time? We are not all retired like Joe!

2. If Joe's second vehicle was not registered to his I-PASS, the state would have not known of any connection and would have only sent him a bill upon the accumaltion of 4 and not one as he wants us to believe.

3. Someone said the state is not going to pay .41 cents on postage plus for paper, envelopes, ink and clerical time to collect one .50 cent toll. I could not agree more! So you make no sense Joe! You are lying and the bloggers are telling the truth. You are spinning your story in attempt to get us dizzy and confused. You will have no success as we will always call out your lies.

4. I believe it was reported the Napergate Man had an I-PASS only for himself. He obviously needed his I-Pass as he owned businesses in the Northern Suburbs somewhere. So he is not going to give the I-PASS to his daughter and be without one while travelling to and from his businesses. They both can not use it at the same time. So his daughter had to pay coin. There was no toll activity violations shown for his daughter between Feb. and July. So either she had a perfect record for 5 months or was an infrequent toll user..take your pick! Either way it does not sound like she is the bad girl Joe is trying to paint. He is a nasty old man playing stupid on these blogs.

5. My husband and I share an I-Pass. If we use the car without the I-Pass transponder or fail to move it, we have to pay double the toll at the cashier booth. And it has happened to us numerous times. So I don't know what Joe is talking about. If your I-PASS is not with you, you pay up. The tollway authority does not give credit and is not a charity.

6. Regarding Joe's below statement.

"So, did she have an IPASS transponder in her white van like you are inferring or not, Samantha? Are you calling all of the prior posters liars who said he/she did not have an IPASS back then?"

Samantha never inferred the Napergate Man's daughter had a transponder. This is Joe sowing confusion with his lies and distortion to confuse bloggers. Samantha never called any of the previous bloggers a liar. She agreed with them! Joe, is distorting what she said in an attempt to say she called other bloggers liars, when she never did.

I am sorry Joe! But you are a sick puppy! The worse pathological liar I have ever met. The worse twister of words I have ever met. You really make me sick, Joe!

I do not know why Jim and Ted allow you to blog. Maybe for entertainment! Maybe because they enjoy other bloggers exposing your constant lies. I am not sure! But if I was running these blogs, I would haved banned you a long time ago.


Samantha,

Hate to break it to you, but if you have the plate registered with the IPASS and they have the PLATE TYPE entered incorrectly in their system, it will not do the auto-deduct from your account properly if the transponder does not activate, even though the TAG# is registered to your IPASS. One of my vehicles was not entered with the proper PLATE TYPE, but the TAG# was on the account. It was a system error on their part, cleared up by the lady on the other end of the phone immediately.

They deducted the original cost of the tolls listed ($0.50) each from my IPASS account and I verified it online that it was properly taken care of after the phone call.

Your story is also crossed because when I suggested the NG man could have / should have had an IPASS it was said they were not out then (LIE) and that she only used the tollway ever few months so there was no reason to get one. In short, it was said that they did not have an IPASS. SO, is the story now that the NG man had one but his white van was not registered to use it? If she had the transponder in the van at the time there would have been no need to hunt for coins during rush hour while everyone was honking behind her. In fact, you can take your Ipass into ANYONE's vehicle and it will work (assuming it is mounted in a place that makes it operate). As was found out, there are certain vehicles that have a micro-wire mesh in their windshield that keeps them from operating properly if mounted behind the mirror like they show. For some of these vehicles, there is a clear spot up by the top behind the sun visor. Others, you have to use the license-mounted transponder for them.

So, did she have an IPASS transponder in her white van like you are inferring or not, Samantha? Are you calling all of the prior posters liars who said he/she did not have an IPASS back then?

You seem very emotional in your last post. Why don't you take a break and collect your thoughts before calling all of those prior posters liars who said he never had an ipass and rarely uses the tollway so there is no reason to get one. I took them at their word when they posted that. I am amazed you did not.

Yes civilians most certainly do know of what good work our police force does? Ever here of CAPS that happens every year in Naperville where this Sgt has been honored?

I am all for NPD addressing your concerns, I wish they would but I believe no matter what anyone says, it will not change what you already believe. And I am not a deputy chief or any way associated with NPD management. I am someone has read these blogs and formed my own opinion that is not with the bashers, sorry.

I have an IPass. It failed to record on one of my vehicles and the actual cost of the toll was deducted from my account after 1 phone call which was made the minute I saw the notice in the mail.
How is that a naughty or bad thing?
Posted by: Joe | March 3, 2008 09:09 PM

__________________________________________________________________

I have gotten one in the past for a vehicle that was not registered to my Ipass.
Posted by: Joe | March 3, 2008 01:26 PM

__________________________________________________________________

Joe,
I can tell from these 2 statements that you are lying. You are turning into a pathological liar on these blogs with all your lies and misstatements.

If a vehicle is not registered in your I-PASS, you are not allowed to use the I-PASS for that vehicle. It sounds like you were trying to cheat the STATE and get out of it.

The Napergate Man had an I-PASS but it was not registered in his daughter's vehicle. Only his! He owned up to it and took responsibility! You sound like you tried to sweet talk your way out of your responsibility. How shameful, Joe!

You most likely got your 4 violations in a timely manner and were able to pay them on time.($83.20) We all know the Tollway has no time to bother anyone for ONE missed TOLL. We are not all stupid, Joe! The tollway is not going to put a .41 stamp on an envelope to tell you that you owe them .40 cents. That would be very very stupid. What about the cost of the envelope, paper, and ink to perform the task? And the clerk does not work free, Joe! You are busted Joe! Busted big time! You nasty violator and thief of services provided by the Tollway. You scum bag pickin on the Napergate Man's daughter! You are garabage that needs to be thrown in a landfill!

Anonymous,
If you are not Deputy Chief Vincent who are you! Civilians do not know of the great performances and spectacular arrests of Sergeants. Superiors know!

You may as well admit you are a higher level sworn officer of the NPD and get the mystery over with! You revealed a little too much with your post. You did slip up! It was obvious.

How about a first name for starters?

Norma,
You made a mistake unmasking the Deputy Police Chief so quickly. You should have let us hear what he had to say for a while before letting him know we knew who he was.

You ruined the Jerry Springer party, Norma! He is either going back in the closet voluntarily or Chief Dial is going to throw him in the closet and throw the keys away for slippin up and revealing he is a member of the Naperville Police Dept.

Well, I hope Chief Dail does not terminate this Deputy Chief's employment. He was just trying to be helpful and slipped up!

But it is high time the NPD has their official spokesperson speak up. Other wise why have a SPOKESPERSON!

Congratulations Randy!

Your (Posted by: Randy | March 3, 2008 04:27 PM ) finally brought the NPD out. It now appears Deputy Chief Vincent is bloggin with us anonymously.

I guess the Napergate Man taught you some lessons in how to bring them out. But did he tell you how not to scare them off so they will continue to communicate with us? That is my greatest fear at the moment!

Sorry for all the people who think I am Deputy Chief Vincent? Im not sure if there is a Deputy Chief Vincent is there? I am someone who knows the Sgt on a personal level and am tired of seeing the same old bashing going on about this.

I to wish someone from NPD would respond to hopefully put this to rest, but my guess is they are not going to.

Maryann and Jay.

I have an IPass. It failed to record on one of my vehicles and the actual cost of the toll was deducted from my account after 1 phone call which was made the minute I saw the notice in the mail.

How is that a naughty or bad thing?

Norma,
I agree with you. Anonymous is a high ranking member of the Naperville Police Department. He could easily be Deputy Chief Vincent who is assigned to monitor these blogs along with other public relations duties that he has.

Obviously, he was not careful with his choice of words and pretty much revealed he is most probably Deputy Chief Vincent.

Now let us hope Deputy Chief Vincent comes out of the closet and talks to us directly.

The Napergatians obviously learned from the Napergate Man. They did say let us put enough heat on them and they will come out to defend themselves. They are finally coming out to defend themselves.

I remember Randy asking Moderator Jim to let us go full blast this one time. Moderator Jim honored Randy's request and never defended the NPD after that initial post. Host Ted has not either! They have finally granted our wishes and now they see the first high ranking police official trying to speak while MASKED!
We need to UNMASK him as we unmasked the Napergate Man!

Now, I feel, the police dept. will come out and debate us. Obviously they already came out anonymously. I would rather they identify themselves and debate us face to face and name to name! I think they will and hopefully we will learn something about discretion and the abuse of discretion.

I can not imagine that our very fine and brave NPD will chose to be COWARDS and debate us ANONYMOUSLY! I am sure they are better than that! Time will eventually tell!

Maryann,
Nice job!

You caught Joe in another lie from this quote of his:


"That information comes directly from the back of the physical notice that is mailed to the registered owner. I know, I have gotten one in the past for a vehicle that was not registered to my I-PASS. 3 minutes later on the phone w/ them and it's all cleared up. Voilla! 3 minutes was all it took. Mine were from Army Trail plaza from last summer. I cleared it up the day it came 2 weeks ago. Simple, painless."


Notice he says "GOTTEN ONE." Well is he not the one who told us they don't send notices until 4 or 5 violations. He posted the link for us. Now he tells us he got ONE! Or maybe he did not lie and his ONE is FIVE!

What a charcter this guy is? Lies everyday...gets caught everyday....and continues to lie! And he says he is not a clown! Well he certainly ain't a priest or pastor either!

Anonymous Deputy Chief,

I agree whole heartedly with Norma. Obviously she called you out correctly as being a senior member of the NPD or you would know nothing about the Sergeant.

Would you mind providing the name of the Sergeant and yourself so we can address you properly?

Anonymous,
I think for most of us who do not know the Napergate Man, this is not about him. It is about us!

It is a little frightening the thought of being arrested for emissions or tolls in front of my kids especially if I knew nothing about it. A poster on this thread stated it happened to him and he had no knowledge of his suspension. Thank God in that case the wife was with him and took care of the kids.

He was very pro-Police by the way and spoke highly of whomever officer arrested him. So this site is not a bashing of the NPD but an education process. If you feel it is a Jerry Springer show maybe if someone from the NPD would participate and answer questions it could become more professional.

I do not think the problem is with the Naperville Sun covering the story! I believe the problem is from the silence coming from the NPD and its unwillingness to shed any light on the situation!

Joe,

From your link,

__________________________________________________________________


"The Amnesty Program payments outlined in the new law are based on a sliding scale that requires violators with up to 25 violations to pay 50 percent of their original fines and tolls, violators with up to 50 violations to pay 60 percent of their original fines and tolls, and violators owing more than 50 violations to pay 75 percent of their original fines and tolls. This approach is considered the most cost-efficient way to quickly collect the missed tolls and a large amount of the related fines owed to the Tollway and its customers."

__________________________________________________________________

I wonder how many days these violaters got in jail. It sounds like the Napergate Man's daughter was a mild case compared to what you posted with only 4 violations. Maybe that is why they took 3.5 years to finally go after her(Dad unfortunately).

It also sounds like this Tollway Authority was really behind!

By the way I never heard of this Amnesty Program! Where was it advertised? I am not sure people check the internet like you for all this information.

Just curious Joe! Are you retired? I am only asking because you seem to have a lot more time than the average citizen to blog...no offense intended!

Mr. Anonymous,
You sound like a Deputy Chief defending your Sergeant in a knee jerk reaction. You indicated you knew him and he is highly respected and was involved in significant arrests. Only a superior would know that information and posting anonymous does not protect your identity as far as your profession!

This is not a Jerry Springer show! We are just trying to make sure all people are treated equally and with dignity when committing minor violations like vehicle emission failures which is almost out of the control of the license holder.

We want you to put criminals in jail. But the Napergate Man is not a criminal and should never have been jailed overnight and separated from his dog.

I do not think Randy or his friends would have complained if the Napergat Man was allowed to turn himself in and be booked and fingerprinted.

The Napergate Man was ticketed for speeding at least 3 times according to Dupage County records. Did anyone ever complain? Did he ever complain? Did his friends ever complain? Your police computers could verify that.

Therefore your statement below sounds like Jerry Springer talk:

"The bottom line is this: If the Sgt were to only have issued a citation and released Esmail on scene you and your very few friends would still be complaining that he was mistreated and should have never been issued a ticket. Now, that is the truth and you know it."

Your statement, Mr. Anonymous Deputy Chief, is not truthful and you know it! Bloggers are complaining for good cause....not for fun! They are truly disturbed by the treatment of the Napergate Man in this one specific incident. I also think he was treated inappropriately!Sorry, but that is how I feel! I also think his dog was treated inappropriately by the way! I think the police dept. mishandled the incident from beginning to end!

Host Ted and Moderator Jim,

Have you ever met anyone in your lives quite like this Joe character? He seems more comical to me than serious about anything he says? It seems like he entertains himself by stroking anyone and everyone!

If he was a peacemaker between 2 countries at war, I guarantee you he will find a way to make sure the war continues! FOREVER!

Randy,

Please explain how handcuffing someone who is being arrested is abusing their discretion? You mention an IF they abused, THEN it's illegal. Prove it was abuse.
IF the officer simply says it was to ensure everyone's safety (including the person being arrested), THEN it's not abuse.

Youtube an episode of Cops. You will see actual footage of many arrests and MOST end up with the person being arrested ending up in Handcuffs and placed into the back of the squad car and taken to the police station for booking. That is how it USUALLY HAPPENS and it is 100% LEGAL.

Please remember the Tollway Authority Amnesty program was very publicized around here:
http://www.illinoistollway.com/portal/page?_pageid=54,1288596&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Pay attention to this part:

"Violators should be aware that driving on a suspended plate or license is considered a very serious offense and offenders face arrest and fines up to $2,500 . Those arrested for driving on a suspended license will have an additional mandatory one-year period added to the suspension period. In addition, the officer can also impound their vehicle."

No Randy, the only thing it sheds is you have no clue what you are talking about. Sorry you cant figure it out that the arrest was LAWFUL.

How did the Sgt abuse his power by making a lawful arrest Randy? You did a great job listing the reasons "sworn officer of law enforcement by discriminating for any reason including race, ethnic background, religious beliefs, political reasons, creed, national origin, gender, etc."

Why did you not pick one of those reasons you listed about? Because there isn't one. I know your dying to list one of those especially but you cant and you know why.

Randy, please tell us why there hasn't been a lawsuit in this case? I know why, because I am sure he has been told he would not win.

Why cant you grasp this concept?

The bottom line is this: If the Sgt were to only have issued a citation and released Esmail on scene you and your very few friends would still be complaining that he was mistreated and should have never been issued a ticket. Now, that is the truth and you know it.

The fact is you don't like the police. To bad, move, get over it or just realize that the Naperville Police do a lot more than you will ever do to protect the citizens. The Sgt you are complaining about is highly respected too and has been involved in a number of significant arrest putting some very dangerous people in prison.

Is it the Naperville Sun's position to start blogs about people or arrest when the very person arrested does not wish it discussed on a blog? I would suggest that the Naperville Sun find better use of its paper as this has turned into a Jerry Springer type blog.

It was stated that he got the notice but it was discarded in a pile of junkmail. Not my problem, not your problem. The fact that 'Diana' could put down the time/date/lane of the violations tells me they has the actual hard copy in hand. Again, confirming notice was sent.

Posted by: Joe | March 3, 2008 01:26 PM

******************************************************************

Joe,
Even though I have not yet posted on this thread, I have read everything on this site and prior sites.

Your first statement of:

"It was stated that he got the notice but it was discarded in a pile of junkmail."

I believe what you are saying is a misstatement of the facts. It was stated that he got the notice after his arrest and it looked like junk mail and stated he "may" be arrested. It never said it was discarded in a pile of junk mail.

Tollway Diana probably has computer access. No one is disputing he got a hard copy with the Windstar picture and tollway violations. Both Mike and Bob already told us that many weeks ago without giving us the specific seconds and lanes Diana gave us. They obviously had seen but not memorized seconds or copied documents. But what they both said is he got it after he was already arrested. A very likely probability since he is an organized person who has taken on much responsibility in his life!

No one said these documents came from the Napergate Man's garbage. Someone was using a figure of speech and described the archives of the tollway as dumpsters. It had nothing to do with the Napergate Man's garbage. I am really surprised all this stuff flies over your head, Joe. I think you like to play dumb and pretend it flies over your head just so you can make dumb points.

All Diana did is confirm what Bob and Mike already told us. There was nothing new here unless you care to know the seconds of the violations. Diana even confirmed that the Tollway was pushing ahead to beat a STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS expiring on tollway violations. Diana does not sound like someone who broke into the Napergate Man's house or ravaged his garbage. She sounds like someone who works for the Tollway Authority who has access and knowledge. Stop being silly, Joe!

It just seems you love to twist and turn facts after slicing and dicing them Joe. You seem to be always wrong coming back to prove yourself right over and over again with new theories and hypothesis.

I am puzzled like many bloggers that you are here bashing a .40 cent toll as a serious theft of services instead of focusing on the piano men. The reason you are here, is because there are lots of bloggers here and arguing with bloggers gives you a needed daily RISE. There are no bloggers on the Piano Thread so you can't stand writing if no one is there to argue with you and give you your RISE. You are all about RISES, my dear Joe something everyone has observed!

It sounds like the Napergate Man's daughter grew up fast and is now in medical school. It sounds like you are a grown retired man who has never grown up and playing with these blogs as if they were a game of sorts. The college kids are not the ones acting up on these blogs. The only one acting up is you and d.bone when he rares his face under his new name. I am surprised you have not called d. bone out as he called you out on the time of the I-PASS being introduced. You should call him out for trying to be 2 identities as a way of redeeming himself from his prior alien status.

Regarding another interesting statement you made,

"That information comes directly from the back of the physical notice that is mailed to the registered owner. I know, I have gotten one in the past for a vehicle that was not registered to my I-PASS. 3 minutes later on the phone w/ them and it's all cleared up. Voilla! 3 minutes was all it took. Mine were from Army Trail plaza from last summer. I cleared it up the day it came 2 weeks ago. Simple, painless."

Very interesting, Joe! We all know you don't get such a notice unless you have at least 4 violations. It sounds like you may have a wife, daughter or son who did what the Napergate Man's daughter did. Now the truth comes out after people suggested we should do some hand and head chopping! I guess you got scared and decided to come clean. Let us hope it wasn't YOU hiding your I-Pass and trying to pull some theft of services on the STATE OF ILLINOIS!

So you, your wife, your kids, or a relative tried to take advantage of the tollway system. You got caught and paid up immediately. You were hoping not to get caught. Why did you not take care of them immediately, Joe, as you have been preaching on these blogs. Why did you wait till they became $83.20 cents not that it is post 2005? Were you trying to get away with it Joe hoping they would not track you down? You are very slick, Joe!

How could this happen to poor Mr. Perfect Joe and his PERFECT FAMILY? Just so hard to believe it could happen to a guy like you Joe! Why are you letting irresponsible people be registered under your name? Don't you think it is time to stop breast feeding your relatives/kids and have them take responsibility?

The more you say Joe, the more you expose and incriminate yourself. You have been living a lie on these blogs pretending you are Mr. Law Abiding Citizen who could never get caught doing anything wrong.

Well, you or someone you are responsible for got caught by your own admittance running the tollways in the I-PASS ERA...when the I-PASS was very established! In 2002 the I-PASS was not established and we did not have special lanes as we do now or last summer. The Napergate Man's daughter was in an understandable situation. What is your exact situation, Joe? Can you tell us truthfully? Can you put your name out so Diana can see if you tell us the truth as she showed the Napergate Man's friends telling the truth. .

Well apparently you got your notice in a semi-timely manner of 6 months later. Obviously the Tollway is getting its act together. No one disputes in the Napergate Case it was a 3.5 year delay. So they did not have their act together and could have simply screwed up real bad as most people on these blogs seem to believe in notifying him after the fact.

As one gets to know you Joe, one realizes you are the MOTHER of All HYPOCRITES.

Give me a factual actual of something the officer did that was illegal during the arrest and I'm right there cheering with you.

I await your reply.

_____________________ Posted by: Joe | March 3, 2008 01:26 PM


Dear Joe,
If the Sergeant is abusing his discretion in a way to discriminate against certain segments of civilians, than he did do something illegal.

I was heavily involved in the Napergate Man's first legal battle. The Supreme Court nailed the City of Naperville for abusing its discretion in treating his liquor license different than other licensees by being much harsher during the issuing of penalties. His license was revoked by former Mayor Margaret Price and the revocation was overturned because of ABUSE OF DISCRETION.

So it is obviously illegal to use your discretion awarded you as a sworn officer of law enforcement by discriminating for any reason including race, ethnic background, religious beliefs, political reasons, creed, national origin, gender, etc. The Sergeant clearly abused his discretion in this latest hand cuffing arrest of the Napergate Man. I can almost see that you are gradually coming around to see what a hundred of us are seeing that you are not seeing or grasping as easily as the rest of us.

Based on that Supreme Court ruling of 1988 the officials of the City of Naperville committed the illegal act of abusing their discretion. Go review the court ruling and learn from the Supreme Court of Illinois that City Officals, Mayors, Prosecutors and police officers are not allowed to ABUSE THEIR DISCRETION. It is case law! The Napergate Man already took it to the Supreme Court and if the standard was not already set, than he must have set it with that 1988 Supreme Court decision. I believe the exact day of that ruling has been on these blogs. And I also believe that ruling was a unanimous decision of all 9 Supreme Court Justices.
The first case unlike the second case reached the Supreme Court.

His second Napergate Liquor Case was won at the Illinois Appellent level by a 3-0 verdict. It never went to the Supreme Court as the City of Naperville threw in the towel and surrendered while telling the Naperville Sun the Napergate Man was a man of bad character after winning his veridct. You could almost see the sour grapes coming off the ink in the Naperville Sun article.

I hope that sheds a little more light for you, Joe. We would really like you in our camp one day as you seem to have a lot of talent! But we need to use it right!

Paul,

Many moons ago someone asked if I were a cop how I would handle it and I stated that I would allow for someone to arrange transportation and to take possession of the vehicle but I would not allow the person w/ the suspended license to drive. I also stated early on that if the suspect was larger than myself, I would cuff them. That's discretion. That's for everyone's safety.

It was stated that he got the notice but it was discarded in a pile of junkmail. Not my problem, not your problem. The fact that 'Diana' could put down the time/date/lane of the violations tells me they has the actual hard copy in hand. Again, confirming notice was sent.

Now, what are the odds that someone threw away a paper from 2 years ago just recently and someone who happens to be blogging on here 'finds' it while pawing through the NG man's garbage like some starving raccoon? Seriously, what are the odds? I don't believe this person broke into their house and committed theft, but instead is someone who normally legally has access to his house. That's my belief on where that came from. That information comes directly from the back of the physical notice that is mailed to the registered owner. I know, I have gotten one in the past for a vehicle that was not registered to my Ipass. 3 minutes later on the phone w/ them and it's all cleared up. Voilla! 3 minutes was all it took. Mine were from Army Trail plaza from last summer. I cleared it up the day it came 2 weeks ago. Simple, painless.

If the tollway was sending things late, people would have grounds to fight the suspensions. Did he? Obviously not. He further would have grounds to fight the arrest and the charge? Did he? Obviously not.

This is a classic: "A Government Authority who falls that far behind and only acts when statutes are expiring is going to cause chaos in our system of justice."

They fall that far behind because there is that much workload because too many people are creating violations and too many had for years thought that those infractions would never catch up with them so why bother? Heh, wrong assumption, wasn't it?

It's monetarily worth it to them to process as many as they can before the statute runs out. There's money to be made via the fines and the fees from reinstatement of one's license. It's a revenue source the govt agency is legally entitled to. You're complaining because people didn't get away with cheating the system? Oh please, cry me another river. Someone had 3-4 years to pay the tolls THEY KNEW THEY DID NOT PAY didn't they? They obviously thought they could get away with it. They didn't. lesson learned.

Just because you wish the arrest were handled in a different manner does not automatically mean the officer abused his discretion. Discretion means he gets to make that call. Again, did the officer do anything ILLEGAL when the NG man was arrested? If he did, I am in your camp, I kid you not. Don't give me your OPINION because that doesn't count for diddly. Give me a factual actual of something the officer did that was illegal during the arrest and I'm right there cheering with you.

I await your reply.


Handcuffs are a discretionary part of the procedure unless you can cite a law that says otherwise.
Posted by: Joe | March 3, 2008 08:21 AM

Mr. Joe,
I think you are finally agreeing with the majority of bloggers with your statement above after fighting them for a week. You just cleverly worded it in the reverse in an attempt to save face. That is what they have been saying for weeks on these blogs. The bloggers' belief is there was no need to handcuff and jail the Napergate Man in this specific circumstance. I concur with them!

I think you are confusing the "7 years" with the 7 years for DUIs. If you get a second DUI in 7 years you can not get court supervision especially if it was a "wet" DUI. If you have a sharp attorney who negotiates it down to a reckless drving and gets a "dry" one instead of a "wet" one, you will be able to get court supervison on a second DUI in 7 years.

The "7 years" is very well known in DUI cases. It does not apply to these petty suspensions of emission failures or .40 cent toll violations. There are no rules for repeats on these violations. Each one of these is a fresh suspension like it is the first unless we are talking about a person who continues to drive on a suspended license without taking care of his/her specific emission or toll violation immediately. Most people take care of them immediately as it is an easy procedure. I believe the Napergate Man took immediate responsibility for his suspensions upon learning about them and remedied them.

I think that girl Diana admitted that the tollway was behind and tryng to meet a 3 year statute of limitations that was expiring on toll collections. The information she provided I do not believe exists publically as I have not been able to find it anywhere. Thus my belief is she works for the Tollway. It seems like they had 2 days left on the statute, suspended him, and sent him that "may" suspend letter that he got after the fact. A Government Authority who falls that far behind and only acts when statutes are expiring is going to cause chaos in our system of justice.

I doubt the Napergate Man was ever notified on a prior occassion about these toll violations. He does not seem like the type who does not open his mail and takes life lightly. Plus like almost every blogger noted, it would defy logic that he would park his vehicle right where all the officers are stationed on weekends.

Maybe Diana can dig in the dumpster a little deeper for us and find out if in fact the Tollway only sent that notice at the exact date of suspension causing him to receive it after he was already arrested.

But regardless of all the disputed facts, in my opinion the Sergeant erred in hand cuffing him and jailing him instead of allowing him to take his dog home and turning himself in voluntarily. No one is stating he should have been allowed to drive. But arrange for a ride. If the Napergate Man was allowed to hold on to his dog, his friend Bob could have taken a cab to get his car and arrange for all the transportation needed. While cabs don't allow dogs as passengers, I am sure Bob would have taken both the Napergate Man and his dog home and immediately returned the Napergate Man to the police station for booking. He should have been given that opportunity and we really don't know why he was denied that simple courtesy since he is an outstanding citizen, a leader and seems to be a hero to half the town who would rather be known as Napergatians

If you ask me, the Sergeant did abuse his discretion that evening. If he is not disciplined he will not learn. You or I could be the next 2 to be abused by this Sergeant. The inaction of Chief Daved Dial is why all the resignations for him are being demanded. If Chief Dial would have taken appropriate action in disciplining this Sergeant for his impaired and illogical judgment, no one would be calling for him to RESIGN!

Marilyn,

Just for the record, 24 days ago...

"RJ,

Hopefully whomever checked to make sure this person had no DUIs would also let us know if they had any prior arrests for driving with a suspended license.
Posted by: Joe | February 8, 2008 10:11 PM"

Located: http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/02/napergate_continues.html#comments

Each subsequent offense ratchets up the offense and penalties. The repeat offender portion is what was beefed up that I mentioned earlier. Also, people do not seem to understand the word 'discretion'. It's just that... the Officer can use THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT to decide HOW something gets handled at that moment based on many factors.

I'm not certain about IL, but in some states if you get into an accident while driving w/ a suspended license and you have a prior it's actually a FELONY. That's nothing to fluff off or sneeze at. At that level we're talking things like 5 yr / $50K or more in fines, etc. as penalties.

Further, wondering why each arrest ever made in history is not exactly identical seems to indicate one has no clue (or simply wants to ignore) what the word discretion means.
The very word itself implies not every situation will be the same. From all that has been said, everything that transpired was 'legal'. Handcuffs are a discretionary part of the procedure unless you can cite a law that says otherwise. Like it or love it, our criminal justice system is based on Negative Reinforcement. The application of hardship is used to deter people from doing bad things. Fines, incarceration, community service, revocation of privileges, restraint, etc are all part of the system. It's not fun. It's not meant to be. If it were a painless and enjoyable process then there would be no deterrence.


When Mary-Beth becomes a cop, we can all rest easy... She knows descretion when she sees it. We can always second guess everyone all day long about everything they do. The fact is the police arrested someone on a suspended license and you are still talking about this?

Can you imagine the complaints for letting all suspended drivers just drive away once they are cited and let go. Then the person gets into an accident and hurts someone. There insurance is void because the suspension. MaryBeth would be on FOX NEWs screaming that the police did not do there job.

Where is Esmail??? This blog is so silly. The guy who was apparently treated so poorly has not once complained about his arrest, but he has no problem taking out full page ads when he has been mistreated (allegedly) in the past? As Mary-Beth relates, "its suspicious" to say the least.

Marilyn,

I believe you are jumping all around the map here.

The arrest I thought we were talking about was 2006, not 2002. 2002 was the 'prior'. By Prior, I mean a noted infraction for the actual act of driving w/ a license suspension. Whether there were more actual suspensions or not (and never caught) I have no idea. Maybe someone can fill us in with more details since people here obviously have them and have been very forthcoming with them in the past.

I do not believe anyone has mentioned what or how the 2002 incident took place (where stopped, how arrested, when it was, who did it, etc).

Since you say the same thing basically happened, fill us in with the details. There are 2 different things that need to be separated here for the purposes of a 'prior'.

1) The actual suspension (for whatever reason).
2) The act of being ticketed/arrested for driving while in that condition.

Please give us all as much background with dates/places and what happened for #2, and also backfill #1 for context, please.

Bring everyone to the same page with that information, and we can all go forward from there w/ discussion.

Marybeth: 2006 - 2002 = 4. Usually for the purposes of computing a 'prior' most states use 7 years. Since 4 is less than 7, it counts as a prior. Some states use 5 years. Either way, it counts as a prior. The "WHY" does not matter in either case. The act (caught while driving w/ a suspended license) does.

If I was arrested for stealing a necklace and paid my dues, then later was arrested for stealing a ring, the theft of the necklace counts as a 'prior' even though it was stealing a different thing. See how that works? theft = theft. Driving w/ a suspended license = driving w/ a suspended license, regardless of WHY it got suspended.

Further, none of this is going to 'bite me' because I'm not the one who's been arrested for this. I open my mail, I pay my fines, I honor court and DMV notices and keep my vehicles in running order. So, as much pleasure as you may want to derive from it, none of this is going to come back around and 'bite me'. Declare whatever 'victory' you want, but the fact remains it's not my butt in the sling over any of this.

You seem to be making an unusual concession to Vanessa by at least finally admitting in a round about way, that if it was a first violation the Sergeant did in fact abuse his discretion.

But you dig out of the big hole you are in by concluding suddenly as if you are an expert of sorts, it was handled differently because it was a second suspension 5 or 6 years later, even though it was completely unrelated to the first suspension.

Just as you tried to wizzle out of the Piano Man Fiasco, now you are trying to wizzle out of this one as more and more people have come out to state they were booked through voluntary means as opposed to hand cuffing and jailing. None of them ever indicated whether it was their first or second suspension. This may yet come to bite you in the butt once again!

But you only try to wizzle out after you are checkmated. If this was the case Joe, why did not you not mention this before you were checkmated. After being check mated, it really sounds like a lot of sour grapes!

Joe, I believe you compose and fabricate as you go along.

If it is all about a prior why was he also physically arrested in 2002 as you uncovered? Why was he not given a break on his first offense?

If it is simply police procedure that you arrest on a second offense but not first for emissions or tolls, why don't the police come out and show us where it says that! Why don't they educate us? Why don't they take their masks off and stop playing this game of silence which is a kid's game who just had a temper tantrum and is recovering?

Are you now saying a Wehrli or Moser would also be arrested on a second offense for a license suspension or toll violation committed by a tennager? By arrested I mean hand cuffed and jailed! Not booked as we know there is a difference!

It seems to me Joe you just guess and guess and hope one day no one will call you out. Now that many people said they were allowed to go in voluntarily for booking which you apparently know is true, you raised the stakes and are assuming handcuffing takes place in a second occurrence. You simply are speculating and guessing like you have been for months until someone proves you wrong. You are always hoping no one will prove you wrong, but with hundreds of bloggers it seems at least one always has the ammunition eventually.

Second suspensions for tolls or emissions are not the same as second suspension for DUIs. I think there is a big difference.

So now Joe you wants us to believe if a woman is stopped with her 4 kids for a 2nd emission violation in a 5 year period, the cop will have no discretion and he will have to handcuff her in front of her kids and call child welfare to pick up her kids from the 4 lane or 6 lane street while the kids and Mom are all screaming. Not a chance! I believe as most residents probably believe that police have discretion on second violations just as they do on first.

If someone was caught driving on a suspended license and did not pay their tolls immediately and was caught driving again on the same suspenson, I could see him/her being arrested with hand cuffs.

But the Napergate Man's cases are different. He solved the first emission problem immediately by selling his car to an out of state dealer. He solved the toll problem by paying up first thing Monday morning I assume since it happened on a weekend. And I have no doubt the Napergate Man did not know abou this toll suspension or he would have never parked by 12 police men on Chicago Ave. as so many bloggers have already noted.

He could not control that his car got too old to pass emissions testing. He could not control his daughter ran a toll(s). These are cases where discretion should have been used by the police. It was not! That is why we are all wondering why are police dept. acts in this manner.

And the Police Depts. extreme silence raises suspicion, they acted very wrongfully that fateful evening, to put it in the very mildest terms! No need to use the terms I used on my earlier and first post on these threads. I am sure most bloggers can figure it all out on their own!

Vanessa,

When this all first came out, I gave you all the clue as to why it was probably handled 'differently'. There was a Prior.

IL changed the law a couple/few years back with regards to DWL and there were changes to the sections with regards to whether something was someone's FIRST offense, or a SUBSEQUENT offense.

Everyone decided to ignore that and pay no attention to it. Go look up the law yourself and read it. You will most likely find your answer as to WHY it was done the way it was done.

Then again, the conspiracy/discrimination/fascism claims are entertaining too. On second thought, don't go look it up. Keep up with the rhetoric about conspiracies. They're classic.

Jessica,

Wrong on each guess.
Same offer to Cindy goes out to you.

People forget the fact that the police are under 0 obligation to allow you to put your affairs in order and turn yourself in voluntarily.
Posted by: Joe | March 2, 2008 05:01 PM

------------------------------------------------------------------

You may be right Joe but they have to treat all equally. They can not for instance, handcuff, arrest and jail the ones they dislike politicially. And ask all those they like politically to turn themselves in voluntarily for fingerprinting and booking!

I have had this emission problem suspension and was allowed to turn myself in voluntarily for booking. I was neither handcuffed, arrested, jailed or asked for a cash bond. I was booked, fingerprinted and I-Bonded out within a half an hour or less!

So I think a lot of us are wondering why different standards are applied to the Napergate Man who is an outstanding and caring citizen by all accounts! In his case he did not know. In my case I knew and it was my fault and not my son or daughter's fault. I also did not have a child or dog with me. So if anything discretion should have been used to help him out. Instead, it was used to abuse him. Is this really not obvious to you, Joe!

That is all we are asking. You are the one that is making this a conspiracy more than anyone on thes blogs.

Try to answer the simple question which is why he is not treated equally to other residents when it comes to police procedure. This specific case has been about abuse of discretion. And you keep going back to 1995 Napergate Case which was a conspiracy case as proven by organizations and courts at the time! That one has been proven beyond reasonable doubt and has been over for a decade.

Can you please try to focus Joe on the issues at hand and discuss them? Just to remind you again we are talking about the need to arrest and jail him when others are only booked voluntarily. Do you finally get it, Joe? Try giving us some answers since you seem to know all the answers. Try not to be evasive which seems to be your latest style!

Lucas,
I really enjoyed you calling Joe out on that after the fact Piano Post. This guy just does not quit trying. He has a big ego!

He needs to be right even if he is wrong. He will attempt to deceive if he is wrong and pretend he is right. I have never seen anyone quite like him. All nonsense with absolutely no substance.

The more he posts the more curious I am of what kind of police record this guy has in his closet. Maybe he spent 10 years in jail and is now reformed. Something is going on with this character Joe to be so obsessed with the Napergate Man.

If he really was a law and order man he would be posting repeately on the that Piano Thread instead of on this Napergate Thread.

And the Naperville Police Dept. should have taken precautionary measures to avoid 102 residents from being separated from thousands of dollars each in that Piano Fiasco! But the NPD does have all its priorities wrong when they can devote all this energy to the Napergate Man's tolls, emissions, headlights and liquor stores.

I have to say there is some kind of conspiracty for him to be given this much attention by the NPD and for them to always be abusing their discretion in dealing with him.

Since I noticed many new bloggers on this thread, I would like to post my e-mail address again to the many newcomers.

Here it is:


Mikelockwies@yahoo.com


If anyone knows any Naperville residents who were not handcuffed, arrested and jailed by the NPD after being stopped for an emission or toll booth violation I would like to hear from that person(s). I have been trying to accumalate this list for a while. I have quite a few residents but would like to try to find 50 or more in order to have a good case to present to Internal Affairs to see if they will deal with the issue of abuse of discretion or just "white wash" it.

I have heard from many residents who have been only booked by other nearby police departments but not handcuffed and jailed. But I am strictly looking for additional residents who were voluntarily booked by only the Naperville Police dept. and not other depts. I am trying to develop an apple to apple comparison.

I also question the police report that states Basim Esmail was released at 4am. I got a call about 530am when the sun was already out and I was awake to pick him up. I highly doubt he would stick around chatting with police officers for an hour and a half while his dog, Abby, is undergoing separation anxiety. I am sure they want everyone out of the building and on their way as soon as they are released.

I am also sure his friend Bob can confirm the day was bright when we finally got to him at Dunkin Donuts 5 to 10 minutes later. Plus the Dunkin Donuts employees could confirm that, too!

Therefore, I believe the NPD report was embellished in an attempt to decrease the time Basim was held. He even asked them why it took them 3-4 hours to release him since he had his 100 bucks ready to go. The lady who booked him told him the person who normally helps her was in a motorcycle accident recently and she had to handle all the bookings herself that night. Thus, according to her that was the reason he was not released till about 530am and not 4am as the police report states.

Maybe the Naperville Sun can try to confirm that her partner who helps her book was in a serious motorcycle accident as she alleges. It seems to me if they had such a backlog they could have called a sworn officer from patrol to help with bookings at that late hour since the streets are awfully quiet between 2am to 530am. Or one of those 12 officers who works Chicago Ave could have been held over for an hour or two to catch up on this "supposed enormous backlog." After all we know Naperville Police like overtime and the City of Naperville has always been generous with police overtime. But I guess they do not want any overtime if it means Basim gets out at a reasonable hour! That is not worth paying an officer overtime for...eh!

But asking an officer to sit on Chicago Ave and socialize with 11 other cops is worth overtime. We know the bars are just as busy in the winter as the summer and they only have one or 2 cops and the job gets done. I guess it is obvious they are there in the summer to enjoy the atmosphere and rack up overtime at the expense of the Naperville Taxpayer!

I honestly feel they left Basim there overnight as a form of punishment. And I strongly believe that 4am time of release was EMBELLISHED on the POLICE REPORT!


Once again my e-mail is below...hope to hear from all of you with information including Taxpayer. Please e-mail me what you have Taxpayer it may be helpful in the Napergate Case. Even if it is not relevant, I am curious and would like to see your allegations against the NPD and City Officials. I will not publish them unless I get corroboration. Thank You!


Mikelockwies@yahoo.com

Taxpayer,
I do agree with you the the truth is the only key that unlocks all those lies by city officials. The truth will come out in the Fursteanu Case as it came out in the Napergate Case. It is always only a matter of time before the truth peeks its head.

In 1993 no one could have imagined that a City with a "reputation" of that of Naperville would attempt to pull a "railroading" of that magnificent degree. But they did and were exposed and now refuse to talk about it under any circumstances as it brings them shame. MUCH SHAME!

Linda, those bozos at the piano store have had dealings with outright fraud and deceptive advertising since at least the mid 1990s. From what I read the NPD is looking into it from a criminal standpoint but mostly what has happened is a commerce problem (bad business). If someone files a criminal complaint I would imagine the NPD would be actively working the case from that angle. Why don't you go ask them if anyone has filed a complaint and what they are doing about it. With luck, they'll pull every single patrolling officer from the streets and their normal patrol routes and take care of that #1 priority in the city of naperville... a bad business owner with deceptive business practices.

You also paint the wrong picture. I have said over and over I respect the NG man for owning up to whatever happens and taking it in the cheek. What I have absolutely no respect for is the person who set the chain of events in motion who can not even own up to their own fault in it and keeps trying to blame the escalations of her actions (and neglect to correct them) on a huge multi-agency conspiracy (like they have nothing better to do) that traverses the State of Illinois, Dupage County and the City of Naperville... and the only plausible explanation to it all is that they are all out to 'get' her father.

Was it an unfortunate set of events that night he was arrested? Yes. Could it have been avoided entirely? Oh heck yes. There were many opportunities to make someone's license never get suspended in the first place. Didn't stop it from happening? Fine, own up to it and take the spank that comes with it and make sure it doesn't happen again if you found it unpleasant. She may have been a minor then but she's an adult now. It's time to finally act like one and quit giving us the big BooHoo story over and over.

Note to Ted: Sorry, I'm back posting about it again.

I own up to the fact that I guessed wrong on many elements on this whole story. Where those details were corrected still changes nothing about the whole thing and does not prove there is some huge conspiracy like is alleged and even outright claimed as fact by some 'posters'. 4 instead of 5, 4* 0.40 instead of 2* 0.80, woopty do because $1.60 = $1.60. Somehow the fact that it was 4 violations is something to be proud of when I assumed it was only 2 at first. Wow, you all sure showed me. 1993 instead of 1983 for the Ipass. Woopty do again because 1993 is still prior to December 2002 when someone claimed they didn't have them out yet. Sorry, but Yes they did. Also turns out the real hard copy of the notice was around after all for someone to *ahem* 'find' with the exact dates and minutes.

So yeah... all those corrected details just PROVES the conspiracy that MUST be happening. People forget the fact that the police are under 0 obligation to allow you to put your affairs in order and turn yourself in voluntarily. If they want to arrest you on the spot for an arrestable offense, they can. There's nothing procedurally wrong with it. You may not like it, you may find it completely inconvenient and a huge pain in the butt, but that's the way life goes some times. Now, if someone has some evidence to show that what they did was 'wrong' from a legal or procedural standpoint, I'm all ears. I'll even join you in your camp if it was. How's that for a deal? Maybe 'Earned' will take us all to Ethel's Chocolate so we can all calm down. I wonder how many people can fit in that place.

I suspect Joe is possibly doing his community service for the Naperville Police Dept. if he is not being paid. No one would spend hours a day defending a police dept for no reason.

There has to be a reason!

1. Either he is one of the Deputy Chiefs doing his job anonymously.

2. Has a close relative on the department.

3. Is a paid lobbyist for the department.

4. Or maybe he is performing his community service by electing to do this blog duty afer getting a DUI or RECKLESS driving charge.

Take your guess!

He refuses to reveal his real name so he must be hiding something and up to no good!

Linda,
I agree with you 100% that the NPD has all its energy in all the wrong places. This to me indicates Chief Dial really is not the most qualified Commander to be running this town.

Sarah,
I also agree with you that everyone is missing the point of this thread. There are bloggers on this thread who are constantly attempting to distort the issues.

Lucas,
Good job exposing Joe the hypocrit and his deceptive tactics. I really wonder how, Joe, our number one law abiding citizen in town would feel if his son's hand was chopped off if he did not pay a toll in Saudi Arabia. Joe just talks the talk but never walks the walk as they say! Can't even disclose his true name so we can confirm that he and his family are all PERFECT! I suspect this idiot has a record the length of 2 arms and 2 legs!

marybeth

considering your point about how the napergate man posted phone numbers etc. to contact which led people to call him and helped the truth come out. that is happening in the furstenau case in a very profound way.

i have said before on this blog that the most important line in the 3 day series of the interview the sun ran with furstenau and his attorney, and the 2 day response interview from an attorney for the city was when furstenau's attorney shawn collins said, (and im paraphrasing) they have learned and incredible amount since the suit had been filed, and that the issue went even deeper than they realize. he continued to say that he gets about a dozen phone calls a day from people within the city who know and volunteer information. he said most of the calls end up being useless, uncorroborated information, but many have revealed information that is profoundly important and will destroy city when the suit goes to trial. he said that people have been coming out of the woodwork to share what they know because they feel someone is finally standing up to those in power who have done so many people wrong.

that is, by far, the most important bit of information said by either side in this case so far. i can't wait to hear what it all is.

THE PRO ESTABLISHMENT BLOGGERS ARE SIMPLY MISSING THE POINT OF THIS THREAD. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE NAPERGATE MAN TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS DAUGHTER. IT IS ABOUT THE NEED TO HANDCUFF, ARREST, JAIL AND FORCE HIM TO POST A CASH BOND AFTER HE STATED HE WOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY BY TURNING HIMSELF IN VOLUNTARILY FOR BOOKING!

AND TOP THAT WITH A DOG WHO WENT THRU UNNECESSARY ANXIETY/STRESS AND IT MAKES THE SERGEANT'S BEHAVIOR THAT NIGHT A DISSERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY! A COMPLETE DISGRACE TO EVERY NAPERVILLE RESIDENT WHO EVER LIVED IN THIS CITY PAST OR PRESENT! A DISGRACE EVEN TO THE DECEASED RESIDENTS BURIED IN THE NAPERVILLE CEMEMTRY!

SORRY I HAD TO SHOUT MODERATOR, BUT SO MANY PEOPLE CAN'T SEEM TO GET THE SIMPLE POINT!

Lucas,
Good job exposing Joe on his hypocrisy and deception. He is a weazle always trying to wizzle out of being cornered.

Those piano customers were buying from a Piano Company that has been around I believe I read somewhere since 1933. 102 Napervillians just can't be fools as Joe would like us to believe.

Maybe the NPD needs to focus their efforts a little more on other retailers instead of so much on Extra Value Liquors which does a commendable job and has never ripped off anyone in nearly 30 years. It even won an award for most "responsible drinking campaign in the nation."

If they were not wasting years on Kangaroo Trials they could have focused on other retailers like the Piano Place. Does the NPD even look at such a place to make sure it is legitimate? Does City Hall even require it to have a license to operarte in town? I doubt it! They failed to protect over a hundred families and need to take responsibility for these huge losses that dwarf .40 cents toll violations by a 16 year old girl.

I don't blame the 102 innocent victims. I blame the Naperville Police Department for focusing their energy on the Napergate Man's headlights and emission failures while right under their noses another retailer bilked 102 residents out of 600,000 dollars. How shameful? When will the NPD take responsibility for what happens in town under their noses as the Napergate Man takes responsibility for his employees and daughters?

The NPD needs to take responsibility for allowing such a retailer to get so far in skimming so many innocent residents. Is that not their duty?

I think once again we see our NPD totally incompetent in prioritizing its duties in our town.

I will like to join the chorus of those who are calling for the Chief of Police to resign! His resignation is long overdue!

d. bone,
I think Joe simply does not get it. The Napegate Man was willing to take responsilibility for his daughter not paying her tolls for whatever reason that may be. He was willing to take responsibility for his suspension that was obviously caused by her.

The reason, Joe, does not get it, is this case is not about someone taking responsibility for his or her actions.

The case is about the need of the Sergeant to handcuff, arrest and jail a man overnight who was willing to take personal responsibility by turning himself in voluntarily.

A man they knew very well. A man who owns a shopping center in town, owns a home in town, and at least one retail business in town. A man who has a family who lives in town.

What is the flight risk that this man is going to leave the country over $81.60 cents and leave all his assests and family behind. Anyone who does not get this is a dense as they come! Plus he has never committed an act of violence his entire life.

He just wanted to get his dog home and come in to the police station for booking voluntarily. Is that being unreasable?

The Sergeant to have acted in this discrimnatory and fascist way is uncalled for. Most residents are allowed to turn themselves in voluntarily without handcuffs in a similar manner. It has been established on these blog and elsewhere! Enough said!

c'mon ppl get with the program.

stop harassing each other pay yer tolls open yer mail quit diving into other pplz trash. i hope the dumpster diver plays the lottery with luck like that. jo, leave the kidz alone. everyone needs to admit their mistakes if not to each other then to themselves. it's sunday, day of rest, go have some cold ones. go enjoy life.

Lucas, I am not concerned about the actual theft itself in either case. I could care less about each instance because it's not my problem and I'm not the one suffering the consequences of the law as a result of it nor am I the one out any money. What really got to me on here was a bunch of ignorant fools blaming the police for all of their problems that result from them breaking the law and whining about why they or their family member didn't get a free 'pass' on the infractions. That this enforcement of the law all of a sudden becomes discrimination and fascism.

That naive "the laws apply to everyone but me" is what draws me here because people with that mentality are what ruin a town and a country.

I love this country, I pay my taxes on time and in full and I obey the laws to the best of my ability and I own up when I don't and take the legal spank for what it is. I don't blame 'fascist' cops because my sorry butt sat outside and got a sunburn. If something bad happens to me it's easily traced back to something dumb that I did and I can own up and admit to it and correct it. I don't blame God, the 'fascist' and 'discriminating' police and city hall because the consequences of my actions come piling back at me. Like I've said all along.. it's about personal responsibility. If you can't learn this lesson, you're going to be in for an awfully miserable and lonely life, friend. Do you sue the stove maker because you burn your hand?

As for the Piano Man; the reason I didn't post there prior was because it's rather obvious: Buy from a shady joint, expect to get ripped off. Duh. Give someone a bunch of money and walk away with no goods, you take a risk. It's that simple and obvious. Nothing earth shattering or monumental there. Newsflash: Crooks exist everywhere so guard yourself and your wallet accordingly.

Lucas, I did post there.

Posted by: Joe | March 1, 2008 07:55 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Your trying to make me look bad Joey, eh!

It does not work, Joey! You posted only after Cindy called you out at 3:17pm today in a dire attempt to rehabilitate yourself after she pointed out if you were so concerned about theft, why not focus on the piano man. I guess her point was bothered you so much, you felt you better go post. Thanks to the time stamp of the Naperville Sun your post is too little too late to show you are a man of principles or morality!

I think Cindy's point that you were focused on the Napergate Man for political reasons and not because his daughter missed a few tolls or he failed an emission test was proven nicely. More so and especially because you felt a need to post after the fact and after it had been archived for a week or so!

If you really cared about theft you would have posted on that Piano Man thread in a more timely manner. It was on the Main Page for over 2 weeks and we all know you spend more time on these blogs than any other blogger. No way could you miss that thread! Plus I am willing to guess you are a subscriber to the Naperville Sun and saw the articles in the print editions that would have led you to that post.

Cindy really made your hypocrisy so clear to all of us bloggers! Sorry Joey! You got to do better next time! But no harm in trying! But you got caught just like the Napergate Man's daughter got caught on that tollway. Deception is worse than not paying a .40 cent toll. And you are not a teenager, Joey! Deception is what the piano men tried to do to their customers. Now you are trying to deceive us into thinking you care about theft for services..lol!

And your comment that we don't need people like her that don't pay .40 cent tolls seems overboard. Every teenager goes thru phases until they grow up. Should we just eliminate them all?

Maybe you would be happy living in Saudi Arabia with your kids. Over there they would chop their hands off if they failed to pay a toll. I am not sure if they go after the Dad and chop his neck off using a French guillotine or if they still use their old fashioned swords. But it sounds like this is the society you want us to live in. No offense, Joey, but are you a Muslim from Saudi Arabia who believes in the Sharia Code of Ethics?

Lucas, I did post there.

William, Anyone can make up any name each time they post to the blogs. Also, if you remove the web cookie from your browser, you can vote in their polls over and over. It really is that simple.

Christopher, Students do a wide variety of things in college. Some of them good for their studies, some of their activities are bad for their studies. The level of immaturity and anti-establishment shown on these blogs sounds more like college age kid rants. Been there, done that, outgrew that. I know it when I see it. Almost every responsible adult out in the real world understands what personal responsibility means and that our own actions set other things in motion if we don't right our wrongs. Not paying a toll is one. Not paying a traffic ticket is another. Not paying taxes would be another one. Not opening your mail for license suspension notices is another. A financial institution sending you past due notices would be another bad thing if you don't take care of it and right whatever wrong has happened. When someone doesn't 'get that' it tells me they are still a kid whether by age or mentality/emotionally.

Joe,

The Napergate Man's daughter could potentialy blog from out of state. But do you really think she is going to focus on a .40 cent toll she did not pay when she was 16 or 17 and ignore her medical studies.

I seriously doubt that! Most 21 year old or 22 year old youngsters neither read the Sun or blog on the Sun. They are just not into the kind of thing us older people are into. Trust me on that one!

Joe,
I think you missed Melissa's point. She was saying there are thousands of more Napertatians that are bloggin here. She provides strong evidence of the thousands of Napergatians that existed or continue to exist.

Honestly, I am shocked so few of them have blogged so far. I think the reason is these blogs are still in the crawling infant stage. Not even a year old.

I suspect when these blogs really take off you will be saying every Napergatian now has 100 "identities."

The Naperville Sun does have controls. I tried to vote more than once on issues that concern me, and the Naperville Sun computers would only allow me to vote once. My family members tried to vote after swithing USERS on the same computer, and the Sun also declined their votes.

So if anything the Naperville Sun is decreasing the number of bloggers and voters with their strict controls. Just my observation to date! You may be underestimating the management of the Naperville Sun.

Joe,

You have not yet explained if you are only truly strictly concerned about law abiding citizens why you have not even posted once on the Piano Man Thread where great injustice was done.

This really shows you are after the Napergate Man for political reasons!

Melissa,

Speaking of clowns: Anyone from anywhere on the internet can blog on these blogs. You know that, right? Even someone's grandmother many states over can post here pretending to be someone they are not.

Jim and Ted both have access to the logs that show what address each post (and handle) comes from. All they have to do is match up same numbers to all handles posting from each number to get a good idea of who they are on the napergate blogs. If they report back that each handle has only come from 1 IP address with no overlap, I will formally apologize for my incorrect 'hunch'.

Example: Look up all posts by Cindy and note her IP address. Then search for any other handle posting from that IP Address in this blog. Then move onto the next handle like d.bone's, then Marilyns, then Mine, then Marybeths... and so forth and so on.

They don't have to actually publish the address but it would be nice to know if anyone is posting under multiple identities from the same address.

I understand that goes against the whole anonymity thing the Sun tries to establish, but it's easy to do and the moderators/operators of the blogs can look for themselves if they want to.

Jim,
Thanks for trying to respond to my request. I don't blame the Moderator for wanting corroboration.

In the end the truth comes out. The Napergate Man always uncovered the truth. Sometimes it would take years. He would post his phone number and e-mail in his ads and people eventually told him the truth. I bet disgruntled or fired city employees finally fed him the information he was looking for. Over 20 years of doing these ads, it just seems like the truth always surfaced at some point.

I wonder if the Moderator would consider posting the allegations clearly stating they are "allegations." This would enable the hundreds of bloggers to ether corroborate or dismiss them. I was shocked to see how Blogger Diana was able to come up with those 4 white van Tollway Violations by the second and lane and put an end to all the speculaton that was spinning out of control with false assumptions and allegations by bloggers like Joe and d. bone(under a new alias)! It just shows you the power hundreds of people bloggin together have to unravel mysteries.

If we don't know what these allegation are how can we prove or disprove them. It seems like allegations against the Napergate Man are posted all over the place on many threads. We have been able to understand them better and in a sense I feel these threads successfully vindicated the Napergate Man and even his daughter to some extent. If I were the Napergate Man I would feel better that these allegations were put out there to be laid to rest hopefully forever.

So really what's so wrong about publishing allegations as long as one makes it clear they are "allegations" and nothing but "allegations" and adding they may be FALSE for EMPHASIS!

In some ways when the Moderator won't publish these allegations it makes us feel that he is deciding what is good for us to see and what is not so good for us to see.

NO offense intended, but it is a form of mild censorship! Unless, of course the poster is not using words like "allegations" and it is "alleged" since he appears to be lacking the corroborative proof or evidence. Then it is not mild censorship but the poster's fault for not using the right words. If the poster is not experienced, I recommend using the words "appears" and "seems" more frequently to replace "is." Also "improprieties" is an easier word to slip thru the censors than "corruption" which has much more serious ramnifications. Sometimes it is about the proper choice of words to get your thoughts posted.

Maybe the poster should try to repost and chose his words very carefully and see if that works. I bet it will work as Host Jim and Moderator Ted have posted all my letters so far...and of course I have chosen all my words carefully! My letters have not been soft attacks on the establishment either!

Moderator Jim: No, it won't work that way. We have to do our own independent corroboration, though we do appreciate your offer. Allegations that can't be revealed are just that - allegations with no supporting documents or eyewitnesses to verify their truth. Some stories can become very contentious and have to be scrutinized word by word and, even then, are often run by attorneys to make sure there are no grounds for libel, false light or any number of legal pitfalls. That's a very short form of how the process works.

Maybe if the Piano Man's daughter came on this thread and insisted it was the Police's fault why those customers lost their money and did so by posting under 8 or more 'identities' to vindicate their position then the thread would really take off.
That seems to be the formula that works on the Sun Blogs from my observance.
Posted by: Joe | March 1, 2008 01:36 AM

__________________________________________________________________

Joe,

As usual your are always trying to minimize the opposition or discredit them. I think what you are trying to say is there are a dozen or so Napergatians each posting under 8 "identities."

The Napergatian Movement is not a movement that started in the internet world. It is movement that started before the Internet Age that had real people. Personally, I am surprised that more Napergatians have not blogged yet.

Here are some facts about real people that can not have 8 "identities" each.

1. The Napergatians filled City Council Chambers more than a few times with real bodies. I do not know how each would have managed to be 8 other "identities."

2. The Napergatians had a rally of 300 people plus their kids and cars on the Spring Green intersection. I do not know how each one managed to be 8 "identities" at that corner. I also don't know how their kids became 8 each or their cars became 8 a piece. I believe it was real and if I recall correctly Host Ted covered some of those events in those days. Could David Copperfield been there pulling some illusions to induce a visual effect to fool us as the number of people present?

3.The Napergatians signed a notarized petition involving 3380 people that they introduced into court records. Do you think this many people would dare to commit fraud on a sworn document entered into a court of law. Do you think the Napergate Man would introduce such a fraudulent petition to the courts and risk losing his strong court case that he won? Do you think all the judges and justices that were involved would not detect something wrong? Do you think the Kangaroo Court who was trying to convict the Napergate Man who was innocent would not have tried to damage his credibility by attacking this petition? Do you think for a second during this one year Kangaroo Trial that city lawyers did not try to authenticate every signature and name to make sure it was valid? The city at the time was probably in denial as you are that one man could have built such a large grass roots movement. It is not like he only did it once. But he did it at least 3 times! Once for his liquor store, once for ATT employess and once for those 12 subdivisions including his of Pembroke Commons to fight the Spring Green battles that was won after 3 reversals by City Council members hoping the Napergate Man would move out of town.

4. A few years later another petition was started in his Pembroke Commons subdivision that spread to 11 other subdivisions and had over 3500 hundred signers. It was presented to City Council with names, numbers, addresses, etc. Do you think the council members would have not detected people with "8 identities" each? There is a big staff in City Hall and I can assure you it was put under the microscope. One has to believe when they realized these petition signers were almost every person who lived in those 12 subdivisions, that they had better reverse themselves. They reversed themselves despite strong connections to Mr. Brestal in the form of contributions at the time.(Nowadays there are no more contributions, thanks to the Napergate Man, but there are favors for family members as we all know that are not suppose to be detected)

5. The Napergate Man and the Napergatian loyalists sent thousands of people to vote. People are screened and identified heavily to make sure they are who they are and can only vote once. Do you think the Napergate Man found a way to defraud the voting booths and converted each one of his supporters into "8 identities?" The Napergatians did in fact vote in very large numbers and in the Napergate Era elected many council members into office. Possibly 9-10 in 3 elections. They did have one clean sweep one year. The other years got 2 or 3 elected! I believe there were 4 Napergatian sitting on the council before John Rosanova deserted after his son was offered I presume(learning from Ameena to select my words carefully as even Joe admits he has leared from Ameena but inhis case a little to late) a 6 figure position with the Brestal Law firm. It is a shame to see that traitor attempt to scold Dick Furstenau. I wish DF would lose his cool one day and punch JR right in the mouth to quiet him down. At least he would be arrested for a good cause! Just a little humor...no need not to publish my post, Moderator Jim.

I think it is well known on these blogs that all you do, Joe, is fabricate and lie. Tollway Diana nailed you with information right out of a dumpster that you thought did not exist. Others also exposed you on your tollway lies. Now you are trying to play d.bones game assuming you are not him. Did you forget that d.bone claimed that Ameena was Todd? And Todd told Host Ted and Moderator Jim where he could be found and invited them over to buy some insurance or meet with him for a friendly chat. I guess you never learn Joe, no matter what identity you use!

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I just read Joe's post again. It seems like he is now saying the Napergate Man's daughter who is out of state attending Medical School decided to be 8 posters with 8 different "identities", focus on these blogs day and night, fail medical school, and waste all that tuition, room and board money. I have never seen such a preposterous statement in my life. Joe you are a CLOWN!

Cindy,

Do you want to put your money where your mouth is on your accusation?

Jim and Ted can verify employment. I'll only charge you $5,000 for my time to prove to you I am not an employee of the city or any police department.
If I am, I'll pay you that for your time.

Deal?

jim

i can respect the fact you didn't post my blog. i thought there was a chance you wouldn't. the allegations are serious and the consequences of them would be very important to everyone. there are facts and evidence to back them all up. my only hope is that the sun would take some steps to find out if they are true. the first step would be filing a freedom of information act about all of them at the city. i am sure the councilman are aware of all these things and if you contacted councilman furstenau, he may even point you in the right direction.

since the allegations are serious and would be very important news when they are corroborated, why doesn't the sun look into them and try to verify them just as you did the allegations about furstenau and krouse. that would be good investigative reporting by the sun. and meaningful as well.

to marybeth.

i tried to provide instances of the npd and chief dial screwing up and the moderator blocked it. i can't blame him for it. doing so was probably legit. just wanted you to know i tried to respond to your request.

Lynn,
The reason the Napergate threads are busy is there are about 20 establishment or pro establishment supporting folks chasing these threads around in order to bash the Napergate Man, his supporters and now they lowered themselves to as low as attacking his daughter for being unable to pay a .40 cents toll 4 times in her life while a minor and inexperienced driver.

The establishment folks have no interest in the piano men who milked 600k from Naperville residents. How ironic they are so interested in a 16 year old girl who ran a .40 cent toll! Not 102 families that each lost 6000 hard earned dollar to piano men. What real serious impact did a 16 year old girl have on 100 billion dollar STATE budget by not having coin on her a few times? But the impact on these familes that lost an average of 6k each is great. But d. bone, Joe, SWT, John Q. Public and T.B. could care less. Go figure that one out if it does not have a political side to it! They claim it is purely about a theft of services! LOL!!! In their book a theft of .40 cents of services is more important than a theft of $6000 dollars for a pre-paid piano by potentially repeat swindlers!

The reason these 20 establishment bashers live on the Napergate threads is because the Napergate Man is a political figure with large grass roots organizational abilities. They fear he will resurface one day. If he does resurface they want him to have no credibility and mininum effect on city politics which has been his speciality in the past.

Thus they attack him as irresponsible because he held on to a 19 year old car that could no longer pass emissions. Apparently he liked this car as he liked his dog. He was trying to hold on as long as possible. When the car was finally declared dead, he shipped it to its finally resting place in Texas. During this process of his car passing away, the NPD felt a need to arrest him and book him. No sympathy whatsoever for him or his dying car. And now these 20 establishment people on these blogs are hammering away at this petty issue, after Joe Establishment paid $50.00 bucks to uncover it, after it had apparently been expunged form county records as no one else has been able to find it.

Joe Establishment and folks make these threads busy. Joe alone probably has 20 posts if not more on here and now he thinks Napergatians are orchestrating some movement to keep a thread busy. Not one Napergatian posted more than a couple of times.

Before Joe Establishment and Company appeared on these Napergate threads they would only have 30 posts. Some girl named Ameena or Host Ted would post some old Napergate Ads and folks were reading them, enjoying them and occasionally praising the Napergate Man for his good works. None of the nonsense of these days.

But people like d. bone, SWT, John Q. Public, T.B., Joe Esablishment and many other continue to egg the Napergatians on and bring more and more of them to defend the Napergate Man against all these exaggerated non-sensical allegations or charges that should not go to anyone's credibility.

The Napergate threads also became busier after the Naperville Sun ran a cover story on the Napergate Man a month again. Prior to the cover story the Napergate threads were in the 30 range of posts. After the cover story that reached 16,200 residents the Napergate threads started seeing 200 plus posts and would have seen more if they were not taken on prematurely in some cases.

It is really far fetched that the Naperville Sun could get 1% of its subscribers or 162 residents to post a comment on the Napergate Thread after announcing it on it front cover page. We know the Napergate Man could get 1% of the 22,000 subscribers at the time to attend City Council meetings. He did however have phone trees, fax trees and e-mail trees that added to the 220 residents and caused overflow in City Council meetings.

This Joe character is the same one who lied about tolls. He lied about how much they were. He lied about the dates they took place. He lied about the Tollway initiating action after the fith and not the forth. He lied about when the I-PASS was initiated. On the last one his establishment friend d.bone had to call him out and he has become such an embarrassment to the establishment folks.

Joe has an AGENDA of LYING which is a fruitless attempt to destroy the credibility of the Napergate Man. The Napergate Man most probably does not know Joe and Joe does not know the Napergate Man. But he is obsessed with ruining his credibility. What does that tell you? It tells you that Joe is most likely a paid City Official who was planted on these threads to destroy the Napergate Man's credibility, character and reputation anyway he knows how at any expense so the ESTABLISHMENT can stay in power. It has not worked and it will not work!

I am sure from what I recall the Establishment was bashing him when he had the SLATE of 4 elected. Most Naperville residents can easily see thru the bashing at the time. It is easier now then before to see through all this. In the old days the Napergate Man has so many issues pending in court as DF has now. His issues in court were resolved to his favor. Thus City Officials can no longer bash him on issues where he won before the Illinois and US Appellant Courts by a 3-0 and 2-1 votes respectively. Otherwise they would look like they were bashing the judicial system in this country. Thus the late focus on his daughter's toll booth violations!

I hope that explains why the Establishment folks have now resorted to attacking the Napergate Man on emissions, tolls, and headlights. It is really laughable if you think about it!


PS. Moderator Jim, I promised you I would write later so I am writing now after a busy week at work. The fact that no Napergatian posted for 3.5 hours after you threw this thread on, should indicate to you none of us are full time bloggers paid to monitor your threads like Joe and Company. We write when we can! I am writing a second time under my own name. I don't see a need to change my name from post to post!

To Taxpayer: With all due respect, I can't post your last comment. Those are very serious allegations you cite and, frankly, it would be irresponsible to publish them without corroboration. Thanks.

Earned_whatever,

Thank you for correcting my dates on the Ipass. You are indeed correct on 1993: http://tinyurl.com/3beuxd

I should have looked there for a confirmation before posting.

I appreciate someone else on here who likes to make sure information is accurate.

For your info, I would walk downtown to avoid parking, towing and DUI problems... or call a cab or a friend for a ride.

Lynn,

Maybe if the Piano Man's daughter came on this thread and insisted it was the Police's fault why those customers lost their money and did so by posting under 8 or more 'identities' to vindicate their position then the thread would really take off.

That seems to be the formula that works on the Sun Blogs from my observance.

I spent a few hours reading these blogs tonight. Also read the print edition. I happened to see that article in the print edition about 2 Piano Men milking 102 Naperville Citizens of nearly $500-600k. I thought that was a story.

However looking at these blogs only one person cares about this piano theft or incompetence and he wrote less than a line. There is a possibility of Grand Larceny here and only one person slightly cares.

But when you come to this Napergate Thread, so many people are angry at the Napergate Man's daughter for running a toll of .40 cents. For ripping off the State of Illinois for a $1.60. Wow!! But hardly anyone is angry at the Piano Men for milking 600k from 102 residents. What am I missing Host Ted and Moderator Jim? What am I not grasping?

A lot of residents are so angry with the Napergate Man because he dared to fail an emission test or fail to dim his lights once. And many feel he should have been handcuffed and jailed as he was. But these same people never show up on the piano thread to say the piano brothers who are repeat offender should be arrested.

It just seems to me that nothing makes sense. Why are the Napergate Man and members of his family held to such high standards? I just don't get it. They are not even allowed to be human and make some mistakes like we all do.

There seems to be some kind of undertone to this story that is not so clear. Is it a political overtone? If not, what is it! I am assuming the Piano brothers have never been involved politically in Naperville and do not live in Naperville! Does that make a difference?

If anyone can clarify for me, I would apprectiate it very much. I seem absolutely bewildered when I compare the Piano Men to the Napergatge Man and why one story has so much interest and one story has no interest. Hopefully someone can explain if the Host or Moderator can not!


Note from Host:

Lynn, it is a mystery why some threads get so many comments and others, hardly any. You'll make yourself dizzy trying to figure it out. Best not to try.

Sign up Kimmie and Scottie, they have all the answers. The test is next year and we need you to make a difference and become cops...Im sure your educated so the (4) year degree wont be an issue. Oh wait, I would bet Scott has been arrested since he has related he has been stopped by several different police departments. Anyways, good luck...

"They are always hostile and arrogant when they stop you. Have no polite words in their vocabulary! If you get out of your car to speak to them, they yell at you to get back in your car as if you are going to hurt them."

Scott, while being hostile and arrogant without provocation is not acceptable, even the most even-tempered police officer is not going to like you very much if you get out of your car during a traffic stop. Statistics show that traffic stops are one of the most dangerous parts of a police officer's job, and every cop knows this.

I have always felt something was wrong with our police department way before the Napergate Man was an issue.

They are always hostile and arrogant when they stop you. Have no polite words in their vocabulary! If you get out of your car to speak to them, they yell at you to get back in your car as if you are going to hurt them.

No cop has been shot in Naperville for over a 100 years! The police paranoia is unfounded. They want to make a 100k a year and not take the slightest risk as regards their lives. No one wants to them to lose their lives but dealing with us like we are criminals when they stop us for a speeding ticket is a bit much!

They are unwilling to have a face to face conversation with us. Only one while we are sittig down while they shine their bright flashlights in our faces. What kind of a convesation is that!

I am all for a new Police Chief to take this department in a new and better direction!

Lisle, Woodridge, Aurora and Wheaton police are so much friendlier than Naperville Police when they stop you. They are also much more professional.

I have been reading these blogs for a while now but decided to blog today for the first time.

I just had an urge to say that I do not think the Naperville Police treat the Napergate Man fairly. I do not know why!

But they should treat him fairly!

The bloggers who support the police dept. in all it does are only thinking of themselves. They are not thinking of the 10% of residents who are mistreated by police and deserve better!

100 people huh? we should phone ahead and get a reservation so we're not breaking a fire code some place. off to levenworth for the lot of us if we do. math already works out the then-minor is legal drinking age now. doubt she was driving at 13. doubt joe's a cop. maybe a geek but not a cop. 'course posting here makes me a geek too so i'm gonna go have fun on a friday night. ta- it's 5'oclock somewhere and that somewhere is here.

Note from Ted:

OK, then, get a permit, then you'd be legal.

Posted by: Brad | February 29, 2008 03:05 PM


------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Brad may have been hinting that City Hall would never give a permit for a demonstration in front of the Police Dept. I kind of agree! They would probably claim it poses a secruity risk or interfers with police action. Good luck to anyone who tries to get a permit to demonstrate in front of the Police Dept.

I just think it would be better to gather a large group of residents as in the Napergate Days and head to a City Council meeting and demand that Chief Dial at least change his approach to governing. It just seems to heavy handed and not directed at hard core criminals.

Maybe he needs more cops at night when retail stores are being broken into and burgarized instead of so many cops in the evening time looking for the next driver who forgot to dim his lights on the way to have a meal in downtown Naperville. What a waste of police talent to be ticketing for a failure to momentarily dim some headlights!

d. Bone,
I must admit you have come back with a nice sense of humor.

At least you are not attacking like in your previous life.

Let us keep it fun and minimize the personal attacks.

You seemed to have changed and I commend you.

Drinks sound real good! Are you buying a round for 100 Napergatians.. lol...! Keeping Joe under 25 miles per hour may not work as he most likely has Professional Courtesy with the Naperville Police and has nothing to worry about.

Why don't you just be d. Bone again as that is a lot shorter than
Earned_every_dime_I_have. It gets tiring copying and pasting a name like that. I hope you undestand d. Bone!

Glad you are being a good sport these days! Take it easy on the minor though!

If there was no cospiracy against the Napergate Man, I believe this Sergeant would have long ago been brought before Internal Affairs to be held accountable for his ABUSE OF DISCRETION.

Since he was not ever held accountable one has to conclude he was authorized to harass the Napergate Man.

It really seems like a no brainer to me. It is just hard to believe that they could continue to harass one person for over 25 years because of his political views which are obviously very anti-establishment.

It looks obvious to me that they are encouraging him to seek residence in another town. As blogger Elizabeth noted in the print edition which I did catch, read and ultimately brought me to blog myself, they want this guy out of town. They do fear him. He does have financial means combined with brilliance and unusual abilities. He could at any moment decide to run Napergate Ads and endorse candidates all over again. We know he once got an entire slate of 4 elected. With Furstenau remaining, the Napergate Man could just like that wrestle power away from the establishment if he repeats another slate of 4. The Police Chief more than anyone else does not want him to succeed with 5 candidates on council. I suspect the Police Chief knows what that means to his career and its ramnifications.

The Napergate Man has more credibility now than he ever had before as he has been unmasked and appears to be a very clean fellow. We all have the bullsh*t he has on his record on our records. That is not going to tarnish him or bother anyone! Who is trying to kid who on these blogs?

people under 18 don't get a free ride with the court system. it holds them directly responsible or their parents. that's exactly what happened. someone was held responsible for the actions of the child. don't go and tarnish someone's medical reputation with allegations of malpractice while they are still in med school. shame on you people. naperville police are unapproachable? tell that to safety town and the dare program volunteers and participants. your uninformed venom and bile spewing would be funny if it wasn't so sad. this sounds more and more like a spoiled person unhappy because they are not getting their way. please do the town a favor and grow up or move. no one in their right mind would stay on a blog this long trying to try every which way under the sun to weasel out of their fault regarding a toll violation for anyone other than themselves. so you made a mistake so what. everyone does. everyone else justs moves on gets over it and learns from it so it doesn't happen again. it's part of growing up.
life's better when you enjoy it. tell ya what, pick a place downtown lets all meet there and i'll buy everyone a round to let this whole thing blow over. i seriously doubt everyone's as bada** in person as they try to appear on a blogsite. i bet i can spot joe getting out of his perfectly parked car that did exactly 25 to get there and not 1 mph over. ya right.

I really do think we are unmasking the wrong person on this thread. It seems like the Napergate Man's life is a relatively open chapter that is known to all. We have dug everything up on him in the last 3 months and all we have is emissions, tolls and some headlights. I think we are really graping for straws here.

But why is there not an effort by the Naperville Sun and the bloggers to UNMASK the POLICE CHIEF. He seems to be the mysterious and potentially shady character.

The only observation I have made is that the Napergate Man likes to maintain a low profile. Does not like personal attention or recognition. Prefers to fight for important issues without promoting his name. Kind of unusual but that is his style, it works and we should respect him instead of trying to unmask him day and night! There appears nothing left to unmask!

Note from host:

Martha, have you even attempted to approach the police chief with any of your constructive criticism? I'll bet not. I'll bet you would just rather complain about how unresponsive he is because that's easier than actually confronting him and telling him to his face what you think. Which, by the way, you are free to do during any city council meeting. Should you ever be serious about wanting the chief investigated you could start by standing up in public during a council meeting, then I bet a Sun reporter would ask you for your name and what specific complaints you have about the chief, and we could go from there. You have the power to make it happen; Go for it.

he has covered up many shady actions committed by npd officers and even covered up serious crimes perpetrated by high ranking city officials and their family members. the city of naperville has quietly paid out many settlements to citizens for the actions of npd officers under his direction, and, at times, carrying out his own orders.

Posted by: taxpayer | February 29, 2008 02:36 PM

Taxpayer,
I do believe you. But I would like to hear some details and facts. I have seen you on other threads and respect you. It seems the people on this thread are mostly new bloggers and I am sure would like to hear some of your information. Thanks for providing it in advance!

Hey d. Bone,

The lady paid for 98% of her tolls. She even paid the other part of her round trip toll on each of her trips on those specific days uncovered by probably Tollway employee Diana. Sounds like the Napegate Man's daughter was out of coin and in the wrong lane. Not trying to skip out on anything1

Do you pay for 98% of your visits to a doctor?

Good job damaging your buddy Joe's credibility a little more on his Tollway Authority knowledge by showing the I-PASS debuted in 1993 and not the early 80s. I never heard of the I-PASS until the 21st Century so it must have not been publicized if what you are sayng is true. Where did you find that fact?

So you are back for a second bite of the apple under a new name.

You should have at least tried to capitilize so you would not have been so so so OBVIOUS!

D.bone,

It shows how bad your credibility was damaged that you had to come under a new name of:

Posted by: Earned_every_dime_I_have | February 29, 2008 02:54 PM

It really just could not be more obvious that you need a second stab with a new identity to try to damage the reputation of the Napergate Man and his daughter.

The bottom like is when the toll violation occurred she was a minor. She is now most probably over 21 and in medical school. Society does not hold adults responsible for their actions when they were minors unless maybe they killed or maimed someone.

I would not go to her practice if I were you. She may give you the Mother of all Shots after realizing you are an alien who does not belong on this earth upon seeing your elephant ears! Creeps!

Bad job with the Halloween Costume d. bone! Try again!

From what you tell me officers have this discretion and perhaps in this case the NPD really is out to get Napergate man - in which case it would be a disservice to both police officers and civilians. Maybe there really is something to the story. Being a police officer yourself have you ever heard of cases like this - an entire police force targeting one guy? Not exercising discretion and arresting him for something as trivial as toll violations?

Posted by: Quick Question | February 28, 2008 01:15 PM

Dear Quick Questions,
I think you ask some very good but disturbing questions. I think your questions should be addressed directly to our Police Chief!

It seems to me for some reason the average citizen is not comfortable contacting the NPD or the Police Chief. I think this discomfort is a result of the policies of our Police Dept. during the 20 years Chief Dial has been running it. They don't seem to want any civiian contact or any civilians questioning them.

Former Chief James Teal and former Officer Friendly George Pradel were very different kinds of police men. They were open to communicaton from our residents. The current police dept. is out of control and does not want anyone holding them accountable.

I think it is time Chief David Dial resign and we get a new chief.
Sooner better than later! There is too much hostility between residents and police in this town. It is unnecessary!

Margaret and Ted,

Rearding this quote from Ted,


"You really want the police chief to resign, make a sign and stand in front of city hall in your own little mini-protest. That's tangible, at least. Better yet, get a couple of like-minded people to join you."


It sounds great but does it work in reality. We know the Napergate Man took 20 of his supporters to distribute Napergate V or VI to the employees of City Hall. We also know the City Police came and told him to leave the premises and property of City Hall which is owned by the taxpayers or face arrest for trespassing!

Let me ask you Ted... Do you really think the Naperville Police would allow us to protest in front of their building if they did not allow the Napergate Man to protest in front of City Hall and give out what amounted to flyers? I think the answer may be NO!

They would probably arrest everyone for not having a permit that City Hall would never issue. Last time I checked you need a permit to demonstrate in Naperville. Check it out!

Note from Ted:

OK, then, get a permit, then you'd be legal.

tsk tsk joe you old fact wh*re.

ipass debuted in 1993 not in the early 80s. someone had 9 years to get one not 19 like you're trying to show. if someone was 16 in 2002 they are not 16 now and still a minor. they are at least 21 now. stop insulting them by calling them a minor. no one called her a criminal. theft of services is an action. when she's a doctor let me know where she practices because i'll come in for services and each time pull out my pockets like elephant ears and say i ain't got no money and walk out. that's ok to keep doing, right? the service is for sale it's not charity. you drive on the road that charges you pay for it. you see a doctor you pay for it. you eat at a restaurant you pay for it. someone cuts your lawn you pay for it. the city makes water come out of the faucet when you turn it on you pay for it. it's business. if you are strapped for money go apply for welfare and we'll all pay for you.

Ryan,
Can you please give us links to factual information detailing Chief Dail's direct involvement in that Kangaroo trial in 1993 that you refer to? There are alot of false comments, misrepresentations of facts, and inuendos on these blogs.

Posted by: Southwest Naperville Taxpayer | February 29, 2008 01:34 PM

SWT,
You ask a very easy question. Chief David Dial is responsible for all his officers as he is their superior. Not only did the IABTF find 5-10 cops involved in this conspiracy but blogger Police Officer admitted to the same. He does not have to be directly involved. He is responsible as the puck stops at him and not dead former Mayor Macrane who has been used as a scapegoat for Chief Dial.

Over and over we read that the Napergate Man is responsible for his daughter who ran a toll even though he had no knowledge. I suspect the Police Chief had knowledge that so many of his officers were testifying at this Kangaroo Trial. I would like to think he knows what his officers are doing before issuing them taxpayer funded paychecks.

It also seems ironic that so many of the Napergate Man's trials involved alleged failures of his employees and not himself personally. As a liquor licensee, the bottom line he was responsible.

Are you trying to tell me the Napergate Man has to take full responsibility for the actions of his employees while Chief David Dial is not accountable for the actions of his employees?

Why does the Napergate Man have to file a complaint against the Sergeant to open an investigation? The Police Chief should open his own investigation about the Sergeant. Deputy Police Chief Vincent is known to monitor these blogs on a daily basis amongst other things he does to keep a pulse on the community. He is in charge of public relations with the community.

It seems like the NPD is more interested in damage control than repairing any damage they cause otherwise they would have brought this Sergeant to explain his actions before Internal Affairs!

chief dial might be an ok guy. but he is not saint. the napergate fiasco has not been the only fiasco he is responsible for. we are currently in the middle of one he is primarily responsible for.

he has covered up many shady actions committed by npd officers and even covered up serious crimes perpetrated by high ranking city officials and their family members. the city of naperville has quietly paid out many settlements to citizens for the actions of npd officers under his direction, and, at times, carrying out his own orders.

Note from Ted:

All I'm saying is, from what I've heard about Basim Esmail, he'd be appalled at the name-calling going back and forth here. He'd view all the negativity hurled at each other as a waste of energy. He seems like a positive person, a doer. And if he knew what was going on here, he'd probably say, don't waste your time talking about me, talk about the library deck, or the red-light cameras, or the Furstenau lawsuit. Don't you get it? This was never about Basim Esmail. It's about you getting off your butt, getting out there in public and doing something about what you believe in. People are not sheep. Each one of us is capable of effecting change. You really want the police chief to resign, make a sign and stand in front of city hall in your own little mini-protest. That's tangible, at least. Better yet, get a couple of like-minded people to join you. Heck, if you get that organized, and you tip off The Naperville Sun about what you're doing, chances are we might even send a reporter and photographer downtown to cover your protest. Writing about it on this blog from the safety of your computer chair behind the shield of anonymity isn't going to change anything.

******************************************************************

TED,
Your comments were great but no one is listening. I really think society has changed due to the internet age. No one is willing to get off their butts and do anything. The computer chair has just become to comfortable as you noted.

I think the Napergate Era was nicer without all these internet perks. With 61,000 views on your threads last week, we know where everyone is. No one is rallying anymore or carrying signs. It seems that ERA is over.

But maybe the bloggers think they are reaching City Officials thru your threads. If they are, maybe something good will come out of this. If they are not, as you said nothing will change but their computer seats along with mine will just get warm! I am as guilty as everyone else about inaction except on these blogs.

Let us hope bloggin will replace the Napergate ads and be effective one day. I feel at some point it will become effective.
Maybe we need to obtain 200,000 views per week before our City Officials care but I believe at some point that they will take the Sun Threads very seriously. Just a hunch!

It seems so odd to me that we are trying to hold the Napergate Man's daughter accountable for a toll violation while a minor. Some here want us to think she is suddenly a criminal.

And yet Police Chief Dial gets a pass for participating and possibly orchestrating that conspiracy that resulted in the infamous Kangaroo Trial of 1993. That trial was later proven to be a conspiracy by first the Ilinois Alchol Beverage Task Commission and later by Federal and State Appellant Courts.

It just shows that certain pro-establishment people are full of hypocrisy without the slightest notion of any ethics or morality.
They worship their police chief whether right or wrong! But they will attack a 16 year old minor even though she may be innocent of any theft and it could be nothing more than a toll booth not registering properly or being out of coin with a dozen cars beeping their horns at her forcing her to panic and proceed as opposed to walking to the next toll booth to get change for a dollar. Let us not forget those old toll boths could not take paper money making it even more difficult to be caught in one during rush hour times. And yes, like many others I was caught in those situations and proceeded. I felt I had no CHOICE!

give me a break. normal people pay to use their roads without incident and have for decades. don't like it? don't drive on it. the reason they go after what seems like small amounts of money is to show that you can not get away with cheating the system.

Posted by: Earned_every_dime_I_have | February 29, 2008 12:57 PM

__________________________________________________________________

Hey d.bone disguised,

Did not think you would pop up again so unexpectedly with your nonsense. The Tollway Authority had a bad system and they knew it. That is why they promoted I-PASS which is much easier than having coin on you at all times. Normal people are caught often with no coin in the wrong lanes.

The Napergate Case indicates the Tollway Authority had a 3.5 year backlog of normal people not being able to pay their tolls for one reason or another and not necessarily theft. I am an adult and have been caught in this situation as the 16 year old girl was. Thankfully, I got my notice on time and paid it even though it was unintentional.

I tried to be honest and pay .80 cents the next time around after missing each .40 cent toll. It does not work! This is really not about dishonesty. It is about an inefficient system! Trying to change so many lanes to get in the right lane is many times a recipe for a car accident. I would rather end up in a coin lane with no coin than have a car accident!

I would also like to mention many times in my life I put the right amount of money in the bucket and the light remained red and I proceeded. So anything can go wrong with tolls and to try to paint a minor girl as some criminal on these blogs is really outrageous.

I am glad that Host Ted and Moderator Jim are not allowing her name to be published. They seem to have their limits as to how far they will let you bashers take this. Kudos to them!

Ryan,
Can you please give us links to factual information detailing Chief Dail's direct involvement in that Kangaroo trial in 1993 that you refer to? There are alot of false comments, misrepresentations of facts, and inuendos on these blogs.

Joe,
I knew Basim when he was running his liquor store personally in the 80s and early 90s. His Zimmer Golden Spirit was always parked in the plaza. It had 2 tiny "cowl lights" sitting on top of the outer hood area. They were not head lights. They were simply decorative lights that had the power of a candle light.

That incident is different than the 1988 Naperville headlight incident which was a failure to dim his headlights which I believe he pled guilty to. This incident involved a Chicago Cop(not a Naperville Cop) deciding to declare 2 tiny cowl lights installed by an American Manufacturer on an American Car illegal. The cop lost, the Judge declared Basim's car legal, and life moved on.

So his failure to dim his headlights was a one time incident in his LIFETIME as I stated and the court records back me up. Again Joe, you are always trying to paint Basim as some kind of habitual offender of the laws which he is not. He is a very law abiding citizens who does his best to obey the laws. He understands consequences of breaking laws. It seems like the more you bash him on technicalities, the more people come out of the woodworks to defend him. So it does seem you are acheiving the opposite of what you are trying to achieve as one blogger noted.

Some laws on the books are a little crazy...such as the law that if you can't get your beater to pass emission tests no matter how hard you try, you will be arrested. That law to be me sounds a little off and extreme. It sounds like some legislators have nothing better to do than write stupid laws just as some Naperville Police have nothing better to do than write silly tickets when a warning should suffice.

If Naperville cops are so bored because our City is so safe, maybe it is time to reduce the number of cops on our streets thru attrition so they will have something better to do than issue tickets for failure to dim headlights. This is really a sign we have too many cops in Naperville looking for something to do or somone to pick on. Take your pick!


PS. Also Joe, I would like to question your assertion that I-PASS has been around since the early to mid eighties. Can you provide some proof! I can not imagine I-PASS being around that far back. My guess is it only has been around the last 5-10 years as it involves technology that was not in existence in the eary 80s. Maybe someone else can shed some light here.

this garbage is unbelievable. the main thing wrong with this town is people who think they are entitled to free goods and services or think the signs posted apply to everyone but them. if the sign says the cup of coffee is $3, it's $3 not $2 not free. if the toll says it's 40 cents it's 40 cents not $1 not $0.25, not free. i'm so sick and tired of ladies with $16K rocks on their fingers trying to get me to give them something for free and acting all upset and offended when i don't. maybe that's the downside of too much wealth in a town. the kids all grow up believing they are entitled to everything without having to work or pay for it because mommy or daddy always has their financial bosom within reach. go get a job people and start paying your own way through life. i'm sure starbucks is hurting because some non paying customer doesn't want to come back in there anymore. their stock is down a quarter today. you showed them! the tollway authority is guilty? of what? trying to collect the money you owed them? give me a break. normal people pay to use their roads without incident and have for decades. don't like it? don't drive on it. the reason they go after what seems like small amounts of money is to show that you can not get away with cheating the system. next time try shorting the irs money and ignoring them. you'll be in for a rude awakening. go ahead, try it. short them $1.60 and see what it eventually escalates into when you ignore it. quit trying to be a freeloader on society and blaming the responsible people for all your problems. you bring them on yourself. grow up. your problems are your own fault. don't like it? change your bad habits.

As far as arrests for license suspensions from toll violations, I would support a grassroots movement to eliminate tolls altogether. Didn't former Governor Ryan say he was going to eliminate tolls years ago??? Oh well. I guess we can't trust politicians.

Posted by: Southwest Naperville Taxpayer | February 29, 2008 09:17 AM

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I think this is the best thing I have heard all day today. It seems like they were willing to spend many times a $1.60 to go ater a 16 years older who they must have known paid 98% of her tolls since they seem to record every move you make with their sophisticiated surveillance that can read a license plate at 100 miles an hour.

But I would like to add that a police officer should be able to distinguish someone driving on a suspension from a .40 cent violation(s) as opposed to someone driving on a suspended license as a result of a DUI.

Now if a DUI offender was caught driving on a suspended license with any alocohol on his breath, he needs to be arrested and thown in the slammer over night. But putting the Napergate Man's case in the category of a DUI offenders on a suspended license defies all logic and common sense. I am a little surprised our "Great Police Chief" can not see the difference and ask his officers to treat each one according to its degree of severity. They are just not the same. It would seem like that is why police officers were granted discretion. But to use discretion to be abusive to an upstanding resident is uncalled for!

I would like to say Chief Dial is doing a good job. You don't stay police chief anywhere for 20 years if you're as bad as some people here make him out to be.
Posted by: George T. | February 29, 2008 09:43 AM


Mr. George T.,
If you are a bad cop and doing what the establishment wants you to do, you can stay Police Chief for not only 20 years but 30 years.

You obviously have not studied that Kangaroo Trial of 1993. Police Chief David Dial provided the former Mayor and the Liquor Commissioner all the police they wanted to try to refute a very clear video surveillance that showed the Napergate Man was innocent. It did not matter to him that his police officers were embellishing information or possibly falsifying information under OATH! His duty was to keep the council and city official happy and remain gainfully employed. He succeeded! Does that make him a Great Chief of Police? It makes him one who knows how to remain gainfully employed and protect his WALLET! Not GREAT!

The Judge in that trial was a Park District Police Officer. So that does not bode well for our Park District Police either. I know the name of the Judge and Host Ted also knows his name. No need to name him as he was just following orders from former Mayor Samuel Macrane who is now deceased. He is still gainfully employed with our Tax Dollars. This Kangaroo Trial involved so many City Officials, City Attorneys, Naperville Police, and Park District Police. It really had all the markings of a conspiracy as confirmed by the IABTF Liquor Organization in a 500 page report.

If his officers had been testifying properly and truthfully they would not have been hammered and discredited by the Illinois Appellant and U. S. Appellant Courts. I am not going to say what the IABTF Organization said about our police action in that case. The words they used bother so many, I will refrain from using them again and assume they have been heard numerous times before. Trying to keep this as above board as possible as Host Ted has recommended!

Liebert,

Let me say I am not trying to argue anything, only correct some inconsistencies:

1) IPass has been around since the early to mid 1980s in one form or another.
2) 'Bob' give an eye witness account of another headlight (cowl light) incident in Cook County as well on this blog: http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/02/mayor_pradel_ticketed_after_cr.html#comments and also says it was argued in front of a Judge Anderson.

As far as Wealth and Crime, the reason crime is low in wealthier areas is because the governing bodies invest in the police protection to ensure that little problems are taken care of before they become big problems. They invest in PREVENTION rather than simply REACTION. I trust that you understand the difference between the two.

Whatever the actual reason, even if it's a combination of everything put forth, this city is a safe city. People don't need bars on their windows to secure and protect their property, people can forget to close their garage doors at night and the chances of anything being stolen are very very low. I have several neighbors that routinely do this. I shake my head in disbelief that they would even do that but the fact remains that they have never had a single thing taken from them.

A true testament to the good city we live in.

Joe,
Many people ended up in the wrong lanes before I-PASS because they could not maneuver in the proper lane in time without risking an accident. This was one of the contributing factors that led to I-PASS which made life easier for many drivers.

Being stuck in the wrong lanes with dozens of cars behind you without coin, is not the equivalent of shop lifting in a retail store. In a store you can walk out. The cashier has change.

In a toll booth there was no way out once the cars are behind you and a gate is in front of you. In those times the coin booths had gates. If you did not have coin, the attendants would open the gates and let you proceed.

Could it be possible after the wooden bar was lifted his daughter thought she was being given a break and just forgot about it. But the computers at the Tollway Authority could care less that the attendant let her thru and sent her Dad a notice 3.5 years later after already suspending his license. The Tollway may have been trying to beat a 3 year Statute of Limitations expiring on them and did not send timely notices. The Napergate Man just seems to sharp of a cookie to miss a suspension notice in the mail that could have been handled by paying the toll a few miles from his home at the Secretary State's Office on 75th. St. If this guy is willing to spend $100,000 dollars running 100 Napergate and political ads an average of twice each, I do not think he would have had a problem paying $81.60 for the right for his driving privileges which I am sure he valued since he was on the go quite a bit at the time with his multi-businesses and multi-grass roots organizations.

I have been at a Starbucks before and caught without money. They would give me the coffee on the house the few times I forgot my money. Now if they send me a bill in the mail saying I owed $3.65 cents 3.5 years later I would never go back there again. And can you imagine them issuing a warrant 3.5 years later after giving me a cup of coffee on the house. It sounds like this scenario could have well taken place. Trying to paint his daughter as a thief, Joe, without knowing all the facts is really out of line and defamatory and libelous to her. You need to watch it, Joe! Your are always overstepping civilized boundaries with your assumptions. Diana showed us earlier you were clueless as to your knowledge of the tollways incidents that had occurred. You did not know the amount, the time or the number of violatons, but were acting like a Spokesperson for the Tollway Authority. How shameful! You did not learn your lesson! You are back posting false allegations and accusations once again!

I tend to believe the guilty party is not his daughter but the Toll Way Authority. The Sergeant is guilty for not having the common sense to realize this is not a Major Crime that required handcuffing and overnight jailing.

As many said before me, police have discretion. This Sergeant obviously was clueless as to how to exercise his discretion. He needs some discipline and after that some classes in common sense!

"Note from Ted:

Joe, I appreciate the thanks, and hope that you, too, are just about finished with your contributions to the exhaustive over-analysis of a misdemeanor arrest nearly two years ago and are ready to devote more of your attention to more meaningful issues affecting Naperville today."

*******************************************************************

You're right, and for whatever grief it caused you personally, I am sorry.
I do throw my time money and effort around this city and county on a continual basis.

It's obvious the age group of the vocal "It's not my fault crowd" on here. I guess the old saying is true that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I've always tried to focus my posts towards one taking personal responsibility for their own actions and consequences and at times might have gotten carried away due to the frustration of people refusing to take a look into the mirror for the reason why their situations unfold like they do.

Per your request, I'm done w/ this topic. What needed to be said was said.

George T.,

I agree with you that our crime rate is low and it feels safe to walk down our streets.

I believe it is mostly because we are the wealthiest town in the USA with over 100,000 based on a survey I saw a few years back. I believe it is still true. There is a reverse correlation between wealth and crime as there is a direct correlation between poverty and crime.

So I am not sure Chief Dial should be getting all the credit for a low crime rate in Naperville. It is not far fetched to believe that because our Police Officers have little to nothing to do that they are harassing the Napergate Man because he forgot to dim his head lights, his car failed emission despite the fact that he took it to auto shops to attempt to repair and it was simply not repairable, and his daughter did not have a few coins on her a few nights when she was on our highways before the age of transponders and I-PASS.

Ask yourself Mr. George T., if you accidentally forgot to dim your headlights, and a cop wrote you a ticket in 1988 for 75 dollars how you would feel. Seventy five dollars is the equivalent of 200 dollars these days. So if a police officer separated you from $200 bucks because you unknowningly had your brights on, would you be praising the Great Chief Dial for his heavy handed approach of these petty laws.

If this incident bothered the police officer so much he could have stopped him and given him a warning instead of ticketing the equvialent of $200 dollars. Dupage records do not show he was a repeat offender on not dimming his lights. It shows it happened once in his LIFETIME!

Maybe George T., you are one of the ones in favor with the establishment and do not get such tickets. Thus you are all in favor of such heavy handedness since the money needed to run the police dept. is coming out of someone eles's wallet and not yours! Give that one some thought and pondering!

Thank you, Ted, for spelling it out like it is: Stop the whining and start the doing.

I am tired of reading garbage like "Unless, they can be in our shoes they will never understand how humiliating it is for one to be arrested for a .40 cent toll or an emission failure."

Let's break this down

Either the daughter thought the toll booth was a DONATION BOOTH (Voluntary payment)
OR
She knew she was breaking the law (Theft of services).

If you don't make good on the theft of services, expect the consequences, whatever they may be.

If someone repeatedly stole from Basim, I would expect him to press charges for shoplifting and the thief gets what comes to them.

Unfortunately in this case, the legal paper trail ended back at the father and not the daughter where it belonged. Hopefully she will have learned by now the error of her ways and accepted her responsibility in the whole ordeal and will hopefully stop trying to blame other organizations in the city that had nothing to do with setting that ball in motion in the first place.

Note from Ted:

Joe, I appreciate the thanks, and hope that you, too, are just about finished with your contributions to the exhaustive over-analysis of a misdemeanor arrest nearly two years ago and are ready to devote more of your attention to more meaningful issues affecting Naperville today.

Thank you Ted for your latest comments posted on February 29, 2008 12:09 AM at the bottom of "Resident of the Meadows Subdivision" post. I could not agree more with you, I have tried numerous times in numerous threads to suggest that people act on these issues instead of just talking about them...but it seems to me that most people would rather just talk about the issues and throw personal attacks at each other instead of actually do something to try to change this city in a positive way. It is frustrating and the reason why I have stopped posting encouraging people to act on these issues like I used too in the past. Your quote..."Writing about it on this blog from the safety of your computer chair behind the shield of anonymity isn't going to change anything" is right on the mark! You called a spade a spade! I have shared my opinion with people at the city who I feel can make a difference regarding the library parking deck to the lawsuit by DF to questions about the red light cameras. I also volunteer in the community for various non-for-profit organizations that do make a difference in this area...I just had hope that other people on this thread would want to act more, but it looks like the majority of the people here just enjoy debating and making fun of each other. Oh well...

I would like to say Chief Dial is doing a good job. You don't stay police chief anywhere for 20 years if you're as bad as some people here make him out to be. Over that time Naperville has seen tremendous growht and changes and become one of the biggest cities in the state. Yet our crime rate for major crimes is still incredibly low, you feel safe in your home and walking and driving the streets. The PD does a lot to protect children. These things do not happen by accident. For a city this size we have one of the lowest crime rates in the nation and we have people like the chief to thank for that. He has my support.

Despite whatever happened in this case, I find all the NPD bashing on this blog rather adolescent. For me, it has made me realize even more what a great job the NPD is doing here in Naperville under the leadership of Chief Dial. We can all be thankful we live in a community with a strong, involved police department. The low crime rate is just one testament to the fine work they do for us.

Everyone I know has been able to get in touch with the police when needed, and for me they have always responded promptly, courteously, and professionally. Anyone who feels they can't communicate with our police department or police chief doesn't know how to use a telephone, or access the internet. I am confident most law-abiding citizens in Naperville are, like me, in support of the great work of our police as they serve to protect our community. They are a big foundation for establishing, and maintaining our high quality of life here in Naperville.

To be realistic, I feel our real community hero is Chief Dial. He is well-educated, a decorated Viet Nam veteran, has worked in law enforcement and administration over the past 41 years. He has continually advanced his education to obtain the knowledge to confront many new law enforcement concerns of the 21st Century.

I don't know Chief Dial personally. Never met Chief Dial. I have seen/heard him at televised City Council meetings, and other televised events around town over the years. I've read a few of his articles, and comments in the newspaper. I know how to get in touch with him.

I'm not a police officer. I don't work for the police. Don't know any police. Don't work for the city. I'm not being paid to make my feelings known on this blog. I am also not saying they are all perfect. Although everyone is perfect in some ways, of course, no one is perfect in all ways.

Don't expect them all to post answers to all your questions on this blog. If they do, I'm sure many of you will call for their firings for spending time posting blogs instead of being out there doing their jobs.

See more about Chief Dial:

http://www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_content.aspx?id=306

As far as arrests for license suspensions from toll violations, I would support a grassroots movement to eliminate tolls altogether. Didn't former Governor Ryan say he was going to eliminate tolls years ago??? Oh well. I guess we can't trust politicians.

I pretty much agree with the majority of opinions expressed on this thread. While it was necessary to book the Napergate Man, it was not necessary to hand cuff and jail him. It sounds like the Sergeant was seeking revenge against him from some prior encounters.

The Sergeant's behavior was not typical of that of a professional that we expect from our well paid police officers.

If nothing else, it does sound like a serious case of abuse of discretion. At least we don't have police brutality at the NPD like exists in Chicago, Melrose Park, Cicero and Stone Park. So we are not the bottom of the barrel. But unfortunately we are not the top of the barrel either! Hopefully our police dept. will learn a lesson from this encounter and return our police officers back to Cops 101 at the Academy for retraining.

I just wanted to say since I know Basim Esmail personally from his numerous walks to Market Meadows Plaza with his dog Abby, that he is way to well mannered and polite to snap out at anyone, let alone a police officer. For the police officer to have done what he did to Basim that evening/early morning had nothing to do with Basim.

It sounds like this police officer was on edge from a bad day at work or a fight with his wife and children and simply snapped and lost his judgment and reasoning abilities on the street that night.

I would like to see this police officer rehabilitated before he is returned to the streets. People that can snap as easily as he snapped should not be carrying guns in public, badge or no badge! They constitute a real and serious danger to society!

Host Ted,
I think it unfair to take Victoria's statement out of context. I don't think she hates police officers. I think she dislikes Joe who ruins the reputation of police officers.

If you look at a few more sentences of what she said it does not sound as bad as it does when you isolate one sentence. Check below what else Victoria said:


"To hear from people like Police Officer and Mrs. of the Police Officer instead of a fraud like Joe, is so refreshing.

What I like about these 2 individuals is they say it like it is. Every time I hear them talk, I develop more respect for police officers and appreciate the hard work they do for society.

This guy Joe while thinking he is doing a service to the NPD is singlehandedly destroying its reputation on these blogs."


I think her frustration is with Joe and not the police if you read her entire blog and keep it in context. Taking anything out of context can become very misleading as you did in your example.

As you can see I was able to take her statement out of context and she suddenly respects and appreciates police officers and the hard work they do for society.

The more you see what a skilled editor of a newspaper can do, the more you can appreciate why the Napergate Man chooses not to be interviewed by newspapers and having his thoughts and words possibly taken out of context.

After seeing what you did to Victoria, I can see why all smart attorneys advise their clients never to speak to the media. It really frightens me when I see what was done to Victoria by quoting her completely out of context and then following it with a gentle scolding.

But I will say being on these blogs is better than any course you can take in journalism at the best universities in the country. You just can't teach what we are learning daily in any course. As they say nothing is like first hand experience.


Note from Ted:

All I'm saying is, from what I've heard about Basim Esmail, he'd be appalled at the name-calling going back and forth here. He'd view all the negativity hurled at each other as a waste of energy. He seems like a positive person, a doer. And if he knew what was going on here, he'd probably say, don't waste your time talking about me, talk about the library deck, or the red-light cameras, or the Furstenau lawsuit. Don't you get it? This was never about Basim Esmail. It's about you getting off your butt, getting out there in public and doing something about what you believe in. People are not sheep. Each one of us is capable of effecting change. You really want the police chief to resign, make a sign and stand in front of city hall in your own little mini-protest. That's tangible, at least. Better yet, get a couple of like-minded people to join you. Heck, if you get that organized, and you tip off The Naperville Sun about what you're doing, chances are we might even send a reporter and photographer downtown to cover your protest. Writing about it on this blog from the safety of your computer chair behind the shield of anonymity isn't going to change anything.

Herbert,

What 'avenue of communication with its residents' is missing from our police department.
You are throwing out a lot of accusations with no solutions. Replace the chief with whom? You?

So far the main 'problem' that the 'usual suspects' like to complain about is that they are upset when the police enforce the laws against them or someone they know. These include parking in a tow away zone, theft of services and driving with a suspended license to name but a few.

Are you really just looking for a 'let me slide because I feel I should be allowed to slide' sticker on your car or something? Let's cut to the chase and drop the shenanigans for once. Do you want them to enforce the law or not? Or is this a problem with them not being 'nice' enough when you do break the law? Should they don 30 pieces of 'flare' on their uniforms like in Office Space?

Some folks just never seem to grasp the facts and consequences of the case.

Let us put it in plain English. If Chief David Dial's daughter ran a few tolls without telling her Dad and caused a suspension on her Daddy's license.....

1. Would this Sergeant arrest Chief Dial?

2. Would this Sergeant dare to hand cuff Chief Dial?

3. Would this Sergeant jail Chief Dial overnight?

4. Would the Sergeant force Chief Dial to post a $1000 bond?

5. Would the Sergeant bother to book and finger print Chief Dial?


We all know the answers to the above questions are NO, NO, NO, NO, and NO!

Posted by: Debbie | February 27, 2008 11:31 AM

------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is a real classic from Debbie. If the police dept. expects us to be Perfect we should also expect them to be Perfect.

A Police Chief should be treated equally to any other citizen and shown no preferential treatment or shown any professional courtesy.

Unless, they can be in our shoes they will never understand how humiliating it is for one to be arrested for a .40 cent toll or an emission failure.

If you ask me these are civil violations and not criminal violations. Why they are treated as criminal by our State Government is beyond me? What person wants his car to fail an emissions test? No one! So we are suppose to be arrested when our car gets old and suddently can't pass an emission test. It just all seems crazy to me.

At least the Napergate Man can at least afford to buy a new car. What about the rest of us who may not be able to afford a new car when our old beater finally fizzles out on us?


"I find the silence of the Naperville Police Department very disturbing. It just seems like they know they are guilty and have chosen to exercise their right to remain silent."

Has anyone asked the Naperville PD for a comment on this case? It's not as if they're supposed to volunteer an opinion.

Here is my suggestion:

Council Man Douglas Krause has long wanted to be Mayor of this town. He has never had any luck in elections for Mayor of Naperville even though he is a stand up guy with high morals and political wisdom.

I think Mayor George Pradel should appoint him Mayor. After that have a Council Meeting in which Chief David Dial is given his full pension and asked to retire with dignity. If the council wants to add a parachute that is fine. Why discriminate? We gave one to Burchard so we must treat Dial equally and give him one too. Hopefully, we don't have to pay the remaining balance on his mortgage.

At which point the Council Members under the new direction of Mayor Krause would appoint former Mayor Pradel as Chief of Police. I believe this would solve all our problems.

Mayor Pradel has a proven reputation of being not only a good cop but a friendly cop. As a Mayor he has proven he has great leadership and management skills. I believe the Chief of Police position makes 10 times what the Mayor makes. This in essence would be a huge raise for Mayor Pradel. He deserves it. He would no longer have to plow snow to make ends meet with his new I guess roughly $200,000 salary.

Plus he is highly respected by Napervillians and Napergatians. That should solve all the problems of our town. Hopefully, he will keep up his annual speech to the residents as Police Chief so he can keep us apprised of the latest developments in the police dept. He is known to be a great communicator so the police dept can lay off the spokesperson and public relations personal as they have served no visible or audible function since I have been in town.

If anyone can think of a better idea, let's have it right here on Ted's Threads.

"Every time I hear Joe talk, he makes me hate police officers."

Posted by: Victoria | February 28, 2008 07:58 PM

I think the rhetoric in this thread is bordering on hate speech. I have to ask that if you want to make a point, you're free to do so, but that you use language like you would at a city council meeting. This is a public forum. You're welcome to criticize if you so desire, but please, offer constructive criticism.

I miss those Ameena threads that were educating us in forming a grass roots movement.

What we need is a grass roots movement that would force the City Council to terminate the contract of Chief Dial. He has served his usefulness. He seems indifferent to what happens in our community. His heart was never with us Napervillians.

I recall he was recruited from another state and may have left his heart there. The man has no heart! He is just rolling with the punches until he can earn his 75% pension and parachute payment. No different than City Manager Burchard who left us and could care not even one iota about us. Only cared about his parachute and debt cancellation. Got both unfortunately!

The quicker Chief Dial retires the better off we will all be in Naperville. I have never seen a police dept. that does not have an avenue of communication with its residents. It is time to find a Chief who can open a line of communication with the residents in town.

I find the silence of the Naperville Police Department very disturbing. It just seems like they know they are guilty and have chosen to exercise their right to remain silent.

Pretty much like the criminals they arrest who exercise their right to remain silent after consulting with their attorneys.

Apparently the NPD consulted with their attorneys, were told they were guilty of abusing the Napergate Man, and to keep their mouths shut in order to further avoid incriminating themselves.

Thanks for coming back on Police Officer! It is always refreshing to see your comments. I wish Mrs. of the Police Officer would also come back on. It seems like we have not heard from her forever.

To hear from people like Police Officer and Mrs. of the Police Officer instead of a fraud like Joe, is so refreshing.

What I like about these 2 individuals is they say it like it is. Every time I hear them talk, I develop more respect for police officers and appreciate the hard work they do for society.

Every time I hear Joe talk, he makes me hate police officers.

This guy Joe while thinking he is doing a service to the NPD is singlehandedly destroying its reputation on these blogs.

What Joe does not realize is if you defend a bad cop like Sergeant "Napergate", you actually bring a bad name to all cops. You need to isolate this one cop and condemn him in the strongest terms possible so civilians understand he is not the typical cop but an aberration that hopefully will be dealt with by Internal Affairs!

PS. Host Ted, can you give us the name of this Sergeant so we can address him properly. I was not sure if he was the arresting officer in this report or if he passed the execution of the arrest to one of his patrol officers.


Note from Ted:

I put the report out there, that's all I know. Ask Basim if he happened to catch the name of the sergeant.

This is reminding me so much of the library case. Except for Joe and his various identities, it seems like the majority of bloggers on this thread feel there was no need to hand cuff and jail the Napergate Man especially since he was not abusive to any police officer, is known to be well mannered and had a dog with him that would suffer separation anxiety and did in fact become somewhat traumitized during separation as his friend had to literally force drag her 3 miles.

This specific Sergeant does not belong on our Police Dept. He is a disgrace to all Napervillians and their pets. At the minimum he should be demoted from Sergeant back to patrol officer. He needs lots of supervision...lots of supervision! He is not capable of being a SUPERVISOR!

I have no respect for a Police Chief who never communicates to his constituents on controversial matters. I have no respect for a Police Chief who is afraid to speak publically. I have no respect for a Police Chief who runs an Internal Affairs Dept. that is window dressing for Public Consumption.

I do agree as numerous other bloggers have stated before me, that Chief David Dial has served his time and his time is up. He needs to submit his resignation to the City Manager and Mayor and allow us to move on and find a Chief of Police who is willing to communicate with the residents.

I feel strongly that the silence on the arrest of the Napergate Man by the NPD indicates that he was unjustly treated.
Posted by: Andrew | February 28, 2008 02:24 PM

__________________________________________________________________

I do agree with your ENTIRE well written blog and reposted a few comments I especially agree with.

CHIEF DAVID DIAL SHOULD RESIGN!

Joe,
All you have been doing since these blogs opened is dicing and slicing and avoiding all the hard questions. Always changing the subject to avoid being cornered.

If Police Officer let a lady with 4 kids drive her kids a few blocks home, you are acting as if this 1/10,000,000 chance of a car accident will certainly take place and his city will be sued. How hilarious?

There is much greater danger involved separating a Mom from her 4 children by hand cuffing the Mom. Police Officer has a lot of common sense. You have proven over and over again to have no common sense.

If you read Police Officer's blogs carefully, his willingness to let anyone drive home is a very last resort. He tries to see if a ride can be arranged first so no one is driving on a suspended license. He clearly indicated he was not going to let any single adult continue drivng. He was going to book them 100%. But he was not going to handcuff them and jail them unless it was absolutely necessary.

He sounds like the average police man doing his job in the way it should be done and exercising his discretion in a way that helps society.

And then you make this idiotic comment, Joe:

"To me, your post sounds like someone impersonating a police officer for the purpose of bending a discussion back into their own favor."

What discussion did he bend? Whose favor did he take? Reread his blog, Joe! He did not bend anything, favor anyone or even take any sides. He just told us how he performed his duties.

He did not bash the Naperville Police. He did not side with the Napergate Man. He did not even mention either party. He was talking about a case in Oswego that had nothing to do with either and just explaining discretion as he understand it and performs it in his daily duties.

And you have the audacity to accuse a Police Officer who has been bloggin with us for months, to be an impersonator with no proof. I agree with Susan that the Host and Moderator should muzzle you as you more than anyone else are responsible for the personal attacks no one wants.

Of course you initiate them all. The Napergate Man does not know you and never said a word about you. After you finished with Ameena over her cab parking spot, you have been on a 2 month mission/witch hunt to assassinate the character of the Napergate Man. You have failed so badly, that you have won the award of FOOL on these blogs. Keeping being a FOOL all you want, Joe!

All you have shown us in the last 2 months is that we were always right in believing the Napergate Man is a true Napergate Hero. You confirmed our beliefs! Thank you very much, Joe!Now try to get a life off these blogs! They were never meant to be a full time job!

.

Susan,

It is not legal for an officer to knowingly allow you to operate your motor vehicle on a public roadway while you have a suspended license. At that point, your insurance is INVALID due to the suspension. So now you are operating without a valid driver's license *AND* operating a vehicle on the road way without proper insurance coverage.
Call your insurance agent and ask them if you're covered driving your car while your license is suspended. Go ahead, see what they tell you. Without valid insurance, you are breaking yet another law and a very bad one because your personal liability (and the department's) is enormous if an accident were to occur.

If an officer is allowing you to drive under these circumstances they are performing a dereliction of duty.

Might some officers allow it? Probably, but it is NOT LEGAL.

So again, we are whining about WHY someone isn't allowed to break the law and get away with it when they are caught. This seems to be the repeating theme you all keep trying to argue. It's foolish and immature.


Let me ask you this:

If a lady had a suspended driver's license and was 'allowed to drive home' and there is an accident and she killed your Dad or some other family member you love, would you sue the department when you find out the officer knowingly allowed her to continue driving even though she did not have a valid license at the time and therefore, no insurance either? If CHief Dial allowed this to happen, would you be just a tad bit torqued at how in the heck they allowed someone they knew was not legal to drive to actually drive. Oh, wait.. that's right.. they were being NICE. All is forgiven.

Amy,

If you bothered to read any of my posts you would see that what I said many times over was don't be upset or cry foul if you get caught when you are breaking the law. You did the deed, you accept the consequence. It's called personal responsibility. It's something the whiners on here have a hard time doing in life.

Do I want police officers enforcing laws? Yes. The same officer that takes someone off the street because they are not licensed are the same ones that remove the drunks from the street so they don't kill some innocent person.


What force are you with? I would like to call their Chief of Police and ask if they allow their officers to do this.

To me, your post sounds like someone impersonating a police officer for the purpose of bending a discussion back into their own favor.

If you really are an officer you should be able to cite the law that gives that authority.
Posted by: Joe | February 28, 2008 01:49 PM

******************************************************************

Once again Joe shows his hypocrisy. You want the police officer to reveal his identity but you have not revealed yours to Marilyn so she can do a background check. Obviously this police officer is not an official spokesman for his department and is not permitted to speak for his department publically. He is not going to risk his job for you!

He is speaking to us as a private citizen. He and Mrs. of the Police Officer have spoken to us numerous times in the past. No one has questioned either of their identities before. Now you are throwing an allegation of impersonation around. Always accusing the innocent with no evidence.

I am a little surprised Host Ted and Moderator Jim have not muzzled you as they have indicated they do not like these personal attacks but yet let them continue unabated while stating us bloggers are not focused on the issues at hand. I do see a contradiction of sorts in what they say and in what they do unfortunately! (See the library thread for futher discussions between them and I in the last couple of days).

All Police Officer basically said is police officers have discretionary powers. He did not rewrite any police code books or procedures. He stated a simple fact very widely known across the United States of America. It is even known on these blogs.

I have read about 4 blogs in which the bloggers indicated NPD officers allowed them to drive home, to the mechanic, or call for a ride without being arrested and handcuffed. Are these 4 bloggers lying along with Police Officer who are only telling us how the real world functions?

I suggest you call Deputy Police Chief Vincent of the Naperville Police Dept. He will confirm to you that police officers in Naperville have discretion and should always use it in a proper and non-abusive manner. Give him a call, Joe! He does not bite! You may learn something new!

Andrew,

'Bob' in another blog said he/she was ticketed in Cook County too for not dimming his lights and wrote a whole big spiel about it. They also said they were with the NG man the night he was stopped Summer 2006 for DWS.

Is cook county supposedly in on the big multi-agency alleged conspiracy or do they just enforce the law too?

You can read about it: http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/02/mayor_pradel_ticketed_after_cr.html#comments


'Bob' never mentioned anyone else being in the Hummer w/ NG man and his dog other than them self but people were earlier speculating and wondering if a minor was present at the time (the whole Adult record) due to the way the police report was worded.

Maybe 'Bob' can come back here and clear that up about the police report with more details.

Andrew,
I agree with your sentiments 100%. You saved me from writing a longer letter as this incident has been very upsetting to me since I know the Napergate Man very well from those historical subdivision battles surrounding Spring Green.

He is a man of impeccable character and does not need this consistently unfair treatment from the Naperville Police for no apparently good reason. He deserves much better! He has probably done more for Naperville than any other civilian in town in the last century. He donated more time and money to causes that helped the residents fight City Hall than any other person in town.

Joe,
You are the contradication of all contradications. You have been posting for months that people have to obey the law. No exceptions! Now you are saying it is OK, to go 26 miles in a 25 mile zone. But that is breaking the law, Joe!

I think going 26 miles in a 25 mile zone is a little worse than accidentally not having coin on you while going thru a toll booth. One is deliberate and one is accidental.

Now that Police Officer has posted, do you think it is fair that most people who have emission and toll violations are only booked/I-Bonded and not jailed, while the Napergate Man had to suffer handcuffing, arrest, overnight jailing, booking, finger printing, and a cash bond. He had a dog with him. A dog is like a child. Have mercy! He should have been allowed to take his dog home and turn himself in for booking and I-Bonding. It seems to me this is a no-brainer. Maybe we have a Sergeant on our police force with no BRAIN. Do we want him patrolling our streets? I think he poses a danger to Naperville and its residents due to his apparently very low I.Q.

Mr. Police Officer,

Thanks for your insight into this matter. I think it is well known in our society that police officers have discretion. But it is always nice to hear it directly form a police officer who has first hand knowledge.

I really do think our NPD has shown subtantial arrogance in not wanting to communicate with us residents. They do have public relations officers and police spokesmen. But it appears they only speak when they can brag about how great they are. They will never speak if something will not enhance their reputation or is controversial.

Is it really asking a lot for our police department to post a bulletin informing us and describing to us what DISCRETIONAY POWER means. As a resident I feel I have a right to know from those who are on taxpayer payroll!

I have no respect for a Police Chief who never communicates to his constituents on controversial matters. I have no respect for a Police Chief who is afraid to speak publically. I have no respect for a Police Chief who runs an Internal Affairs Dept. that is window dressing for Public Consumption.

I do agree as numerous other bloggers have stated before me, that Chief David Dial has served his time and his time is up. He needs to submit his resignation to the City Manager and Mayor and allow us to move on and find a Chief of Police who is willing to communicate with the residents.

I feel strongly that the silence on the arrest of the Napergate Man by the NPD indicates that he was unjustly treated. If he was justly treated the NPD would have come out of hiding and issued a statement. It is obvious to me the Sergreat that evening abused his discretion in the worse possible imaginable way and was not held accountable by Internal Affairs or the Chief of Police. This indicates to me there is a widespread unwritten word amongst the NPD that if you stop the Napergate Man always throw the book at him. Ticketing someone for forgeting his brights on appears a bit extreme and harsh to me.

Mickie,

Your childish and false accusations about my intentions are laughable at best. I don't care what someone does with their dog in a park or who goes 26 in a 25 zone. Thank you for guessing I would care but you are wrong. I don't. As for the rest, please, blame someone else for their own shortcomings. They got what they asked for then cried foul because they lacked some resourcefulness. Not my problem.

Police Officer,

Under what authority does a police officer have to knowingly allow someone to operate a motor vehicle on a public roadway when they know the person is not legally licensed to do so.

If that person was in an accident, the lawsuit to the city/county/state would be enormous for them allowing, condoning and even suggesting such an action be undertaken.

I'm sure the insurance company would have a field day with that too.

What force are you with? I would like to call their Chief of Police and ask if they allow their officers to do this.

To me, your post sounds like someone impersonating a police officer for the purpose of bending a discussion back into their own favor.

If you really are an officer you should be able to cite the law that gives that authority.

Dear Police Officer,

I wish it had been you that stopped me instead of the officer that did. I was with my wife and 2 kids who then followed me to the Kendall County Jail.

The officer explained his reasoning and what I thought was his non discretion - apparently he was mistaken? My record was, and continues to be clean. The car in question had been sold two years before and the Sec. State's office never transferred title out of my name.

Didn't mean to make it a big deal over me, but I was trying to make a point that perhaps the NPD officer didn't have any discretion but to arrest Napergate man.

From what you tell me officers have this discretion and perhaps in this case the NPD really is out to get Napergate man - in which case it would be a disservice to both police officers and civilians. Maybe there really is something to the story. Being a police officer yourself have you ever heard of cases like this - an entire police force targeting one guy? Not exercising discretion and arresting him for something as trivial as toll violations?

I have come to understand that police officers do not have as much discretion as you would think. In my case my license was suspended (mistakenly by the way) without me knowing. The officer ran my plate (again, something they do all the time to as many cars as they can). When my license came back suspended I was arrested, handcuffed and brought to the station. My supposed crime was not having my emissions tested on my car.

The officer was professional and explained that once He ran my plate and it came back with a warrant He had to arrest me. Had I not been arrested the officer would have been in trouble, i.e. he had no discretion to just let me go.
Posted by: Quick Question | February 27, 2008 10:45 PM

******************************************************************

Mr. Quick Question,
You are providing misinformation that does a disservice to both police officers and civilians. Police have a very wide range of discretionary powers and are required to use them appropriately.

Emission and toll violations stops have become more common these days especially since the Tollway Authority is going through its huge backlog. When I stop a lady with 3 or 4 kids because of a Tollway Violation, I am not required to handcuff her, jail her and watch her kids scream while I haul her away to a jail cell. That is inhumane! What you are saying is nonsense and fabricated! Of course we have discretion! I would never arrest such a lady in front of her kids. If I did not have discretion in such a case, I assure you I would not be a police officer. Police officers are not cruel human beings. My supervisor would commend me for not handcuffing this lady in front of her children over emissions or toll violations. I would not be in trouble for not arresting her as you are indicating.

The preferred procedure would be for her to call for a ride home with her kids and turn her self in later for booking and I-Bonding. If she could not get a ride, I would allow her to drive her kids home even though she had a suspended license as long as she understood that was her final trip until she could resolve the matter. Most police officers, I know would do the same!

If it was a male with children in the same situation, I would do exactly the same. I do question your story. It sounds very made up!?! The officer would not have told you there was a warrant for your arrest as no warrant is issued in these cases. You are only suspended and you will be only arrested or booked if you are caught driving. No one is going to your home to exercise a warrant and arrest you for such a petty matter. Civilians should have no fear! America is not Nazi Germany.

If I stopped a single person driving alone on an emission or toll violation, his behavior more than anything else would determine if I have a need to handcuff him or her. If they are cooperative, friendly, don't have a record the length of my arm, and pose no flight risk, I will allow them to turn themselves in for booking voluntarily. I will however confiscate their driver's license and not allow them to drive any further.

I hope the day never comes when police officers no longer have discretion. I think this would be terrible and tragic day for society at large!

I am a little suprised how Joe has made this Napergate thing such a personal issue. I recall Marilyn asking him for his real name, age, etc. so she can do a study on him.

He provided a name that most likely does not exist and is phoney. I could not find it anywhere either. He refused to provide a middle initial or age to help track him down.

So he seems to enjoy hiding while criticising the Napergate Man and his family. I have never quite seen a guy like this Joe character. He even wants to hold the Napergate Man accountable for letting his little white dog run in a park in his subdivision.

If Joe was Police Chief, everyone driving 26 in a 25 would be ticketed. This is really Joe's vision of the world. I am not surprised most people on these threads except 5 City Officials disguising themselves as bloggers think Joe is borderline INSANE!

I am a little bewildered how we went from studying the Napergate Man's good deeds over 2 decades to deciding he is now an imperfect man because his daughter has a 98% rate of paying her tolls at age 16. He must somehow be this very terrible Dad who raised this very terrible daughter! Oh, and I forgot to mention he got a ticket by the NPD for forgetting to dim his lights in 1988 which happens to be the same year the Supreme Court accused the City of Naperville of abusing its discretion in revoking his liquor license. What a coincidence?

It is obvious to me city supporters want to smear this Napergate Man and all his good deeds. They are not comfortable with anyone calling him a hero or an icon. They are more comfortable if they can convince us he is a criminal.

It just does not seem like it is going to work. The man has way to long of a good record. He beat City Hall a few times in the Judicial System. He beat City Hall a few times right in their Council Chambers by calling them and forcing them to reverse themselves at least 5 times. I believe in Spring Green alone he forced them to reverse 3 times by bringing numerous residents using phone trees, fax trees and e-mail trees to support his Napergate ads. I was on his fax tree list and he never failed to find a way to notify me when he needed me to show up. And it was fun to show up and see him and his supporters in action.

Can anyone else named one person who beat City Hall twice in their lifetime? Let us try for once?

I would like to see this discussion go back and focus on what we can learn from the Napergate Man instead of his imperfect daughter who is now attending medical school. I wish I had such an imperfect daughter!

McFarland,

I believe you have a misconception.

"But seriously the problem is strictly with the Naperville Police who ran his plates illegally and selectively while he was parked legally, stopped him for no probable cause as he committed no traffic violations, and then threw the book at him. That is where the problem lies!"

I believe the license tags are STATE property. As such, police officers are authorized to ensure that STATE property is attached to the proper vehicle and that the vehicle and the registered owner are properly licensed to operate on the public roadways.

I would speculate that means they can run whatever plates they want whenever they want.

If you can post a law that says that checking the status of a license plate and the registered owner is forbidden in the State of Illinois, please provide that for us to back up your claim. I've looked and I can not find one.

You are legally required to display your license plate in plain view. All 'running a plate' does is look up (reference) data they state already has about the vehicle, the owner and the status of their license. There is no 'searching' going on and no probable cause needed because there is no investigating anything they do not already have at their disposal as a tool of law enforcement. IE: there is no gathering of new data by the state or agency by simply looking your information up.

Now, if during the course of that referencing there appears data (property of the state) that says you should not be driving it, then probable cause is established to do a stop if you are indeed operating a vehicle when you are not authorized. I would guess (yes, only a guess) that is why nothing was done UNTIL the vehicle was driven and could be observed. With the vehicle being driven and the prior data saying the registered owner has a suspended license, probable cause is established to investigate further if they are the ones operating the motor vehicle illegally or if someone else is (with their permission of course and the vehicle is not found out to be stolen but not reported yet).

There is my opinion and why I have that opinion. Please backup your claim about how they 'ran his plates illegally'. By what law or legal basis do you make that claim?

Thanks Joe, June and McFarland for the answers to my questions and insight on this case. Having been the "victim" of a similar incident (Not in Naperville, but in Yorkville) I have come to understand that police officers do not have as much discretion as you would think. In my case my license was suspended (mistakenly by the way) without me knowing. The officer ran my plate (again, something they do all the time to as many cars as they can). My lawyer indicated that plates are run through the system all the time - and all quite legal by the way. When my license came back suspended I was arrested, handcuffed and brought to the station. My supposed crime was not having my emissions tested on my car.

The officer was professional and explained that once He ran my plate and it came back with a warrant He had to arrest me. Had I not been arrested the officer would have been in trouble, i.e. he had no discretion to just let me go.

I guess my point again is that maybe this case is similar? I know what some of you are saying, but I'm a bit skeptical that all 300 of Naperville's cops have been told to look out for this guy and arrest him whenever you can.

It seems that with Napergate's past history with the city, if he could prove any of the allegations within this blog he would have once again sued the city successfully. Has he filed a wrongful arrest suit against the city?

Jessica, you ask what I believe to be dumb irrelevant questions, but I'll bite:

"WAS IT NECESSARY TO HANDCUFF, ARREST, AND JAIL TNE NAPERGATE MAN OR WOULD IT HAVE BEEN NICER IF THEY ASKED HIM TO TURN HIMSELF IN VOLUNTARILY TO BE BOOKED AFTER TAKING HIS DOG, ABBY, HOME?

WOULD MR. WEHRLI OR MR. MOSER HAVE BEEN HANDCUFFED, ARRESTED AND JAILED IN EXACTLY THE SAME OR VERY SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES?"

If I was a police officer and I was duty bound to arrest someone larger than me, yes, I would handcuff them and place them in the squad car. I would tell them I'm sorry, nothing personal, this is procedure. I would allow for him to call someone to come get the dog, for 'Bob' to take the dog home or call animal control if he could not contact anyone to take custody of the dog. When you break the law, 'nice' isn't a part of it. It would have been 'nice' to send him a fruit bowl the next day but it's also naive to expect it. It would have been 'nice' if his daughter told him about blowing the toll booths so this law abiding father could have taken care of them back then. That didn't happen either. It would have been 'nice' if the notices were not set aside and ignored but instead were opened and acted upon immediately with a phone call. That didn't happen either.

As for part 2 about someone else going through the exact same ordeal, I would hope that anyone who was being arrested again for driving with a suspended license was arrested in accordance to the law in whatever fashion the officer believed was necessary and that was legal and processed accordingly.

Welcome to life. Live and learn. Most everyone else does.

I just got done reading this thread and a few others. This will be my first time bloggin on the Sun Threads. I must say after a while you get tired of reading and want to participate.

It just seems something is very wrong with this whole case to me. Something just does not up for the police to give this Napergate Case so much priority on a weekend night at exactly the same time they should be protecting our streets from the drunks exiting the bars and getting into what amounts are potential missiles.

And yet it seemed so urgent to them to SPY at this very potentially hazardous time on the activities of this Napergate Man walking his little white dog and basically minding his own business.

I read somewhere in the print edition in the Sun that some blogger said the police or city officials could not be comfortable if he remained within the City Limits of Naperville.

The actions of the Sergeant and police officers indicate they were carrying an order from high above to harass the Napergate Man enough so that he would relocate to another town as far away as possible. Having read these blogs for a while now, it does not seem like this Napergate Man is easily intimated.

Even in his mug shot he does not look phased or rattled. He actually appeared to be rather confident as if he was planning his next move since he realized the Boys in Blue screwed up yet one more time.

Susan, you better re-read Diana's mis-spelled blog which contained a lot of spelling errors. I only pointed out the one big one and yes I mis-spelled a word to see if YOU were paying attention. I'm glad you were...There is no sense in debating on this blog. No one is ever wrong and the same old people put the same of spin on this silly issue.

I guess the Tollway Authority is getting some good publicity that you don't mess around with them.

Host Ted should be charging them for all this deterrence effect of running tolls being provided while discussing the Napergate Man.

There was no conspiracy between the Tollway and the City of Naperville. The Tollway was 3.5 years behind and trying to catch up. They had no time to conspire...lol..!

But seriously the problem is strictly with the Naperville Police who ran his plates illegally and selectively while he was parked legally, stopped him for no probable cause as he committed no traffic violations, and then threw the book at him. That is where the problem lies!

And top that with the Sergeant using his discretion in an abusive manner instead of a helpful manner and it becomes quite obvious why many residents are upset about the treatment of the gentleman who helped them fight so many battles against City Hall known as the Napergate Man!

Nice job digging up the dumpsters on those times, dates, locations and exact amounts of those violations. I can't believe you were even able to track down the lane numbers 5 years later. I guess our government really watches us these days! Just like in England with all this video surveillance.


Date Time Location Unpaid Toll
12/22/02 07:28:32 Plaza 51-York Road Lane-10 $.40
02/03/03 06:19:35 Plaza 51-York Road Lane-10 $.40
02/07/03 05:46:52 Plaza 51-York Road Lane- 9 $.40
07/10/03 03:06:46 Plaza 51-York Road Lane- 8 $.40


Going thru whatever dumpster you went thru put Joe's credibility right there to replace the facts you dug up for us. Nice job Diana!

One last question, If the car was registered under his name how was the Police Officer supposed to know to let this particular guy go because his daughter is really the one who drives it most of the time?

Posted by: Quick question | February 27, 2008 06:19 PM

##################################################################


I guess if you had been reading these blogs the Napergate Man had no clue why he was stopped or being arrested. I am sure when the police officers told him it was a tollway violation, he told them honestly he knew nothing about it. It appears he knew nothing about it from the record that has been accumalting on these threads. They possibly chose not to believe him even though he was being truthful with them.

It has been documented he parked his Hummer H2 right along side Jimmy's Grill where about 12 cops are stationed in the summer time on Friday and Saturday evenings. It would defy logic that if he knew his license was suspended he would just park there amongst a dozen cops.

It also was documented that he was a regular downtowner and the police appeared to know what vehiciles he drove. For example, he also had a Rolls that he drove and it would be very unlikey any father would give his inexperienced 16 year old daughter the keys to the Rolls so she could smash it up for him while learning how to drive. He would more likely give her the keys to the white van and any police officer with any common sense should be able to figure that one out!

The Naperville Police really know this Napergate guy from 20 years of battling him and undoubtly knew what cars he drives as he is a regular downtown. They just had it in for him that night and all the evidence is adding up in that direction.

The treatment the cops gave him was inappropriate to say the least.

Joe,

You really love to dance around issues and pretend your credibility is somehow still intact.

You have really never addressed the core issue in this case. Try to!

WAS IT NECESSARY TO HANDCUFF, ARREST, AND JAIL TNE NAPERGATE MAN OR WOULD IT HAVE BEEN NICER IF THEY ASKED HIM TO TURN HIMSELF IN VOLUNTARILY TO BE BOOKED AFTER TAKING HIS DOG, ABBY, HOME?

WOULD MR. WEHRLI OR MR. MOSER HAVE BEEN HANDCUFFED, ARRESTED AND JAILED IN EXACTLY THE SAME OR VERY SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES?

Just try to focus for once, Joe! Show us it is possible!

Quick Question,

yes, there is history between those handles and myself.

The reader's digest version of it is:

Someone says something isn't their fault and claims everything is a big fascist conspiracy centering from the Naperville City Hall or the police department and somehow outreaches its corrupt hand of justice across establishments and jurisdictions to be the cause as to why someone did something wrong (blew through a toll booth, drove with a suspended license, parked in a tow away space, ignored a license suspension notice etc) but it's the fascist police's fault, not the person who actually committed the violation. Can't you see that all those things could ONLY be the result of the huge entrenched establishment out to discriminate and ruin people's lives. This is why Naperville has always been at the bottom of every list for good places to live and where to raise a family...

Yeah, I don't buy that BS either. So I point out where the fault resides and of course, that's nothing more than an attack and then I'm accused of being being a cop, or some other city worker or I'm just some bozo with an axe to grind. Then they proceed to move onto phallic jokes with the word 'rise' (freud called it 'envy'). All because some kid(s) can't take responsibility and accept the consequences of their own actions. Growing up is kind of scary, I suppose. Hopefully they'll get through the phase and make it.

Sorry Marilyn, you have lost so many blog wars you should retire your same old same old blah blah blah blogs. Just once, have something original or new to talk about, just once.

Hey Anonymous,
Since you could not take on Diana's strong factual documentation, you attack her on her spelling of "incompetent."

But you spelled it wrong too as..."INCOMPENTANT"

Yes, you inserted an "N" that does not belong in there. Diana never used an "N". That was your own spelling error. Why make a fool out of your self by critqueing others spelling when you can spell no better..lol...!

Obviously Diana was not using spell check and spells very well. Kudos to her for her great spelling with only one error not using spell check!

I am not using spell check either so I hope I can spell as well as Diana!

marilyn,

I posted: "If the claim was that someone's daughters did not have $1.60 in tolls, that only equates out to 2 $0.80 (cash price) tolls."

because I used the 2005 to the present prices and these were old ones at the old price and there were more than the 2 I 'assumed'. Next time I'll qualify that like Ameena does. I learned to do research from her, I can easily learn to qualify statements next time when I am making a guess. Thanks for pointing that out. A shout-out to Diana for dumpster diving or B&E to get the real data. I hope she didn't break any law to obtain those records.

Tell me again how that means the other facts are now somehow invalid.

They were still blown through on more than one occasion, still not trued up and there was no sense of duty or obligation to take care of them (theft of services), someone probably did not tell their Dad because I would imagine that the NG man would have trued them up had he known about them and it was already said he did not know about them so we have to now assume he was not told by his daughter. The notices were still sent, regardless if they were .80 each or .40 each, the notice was not responded to, another notice was sent and it too was not complied with, the license was suspended and the rest is history. Through it all, I hope he at least got a "Daddy, I'm so sorry I caused this happen to you" when it was all said and done. It's so amazingly easy for a Dad to forgive that from their kids. The joy of being a parent.

It's quite clear where the fault lies here and it's not with the men in blue or the tollway authority, IMO.
I appreciate you clearing up the 'facts' for us so now everyone in town can judge for themselves if there is a huge multi-agency conspiracy resulting in fascism or if the public servants are simply doing the job we hired them to do (enforce the law).

A sincere Good Luck to her in Med School.

Wow - you bloggers are serious people! I have enjoyed reading this one, and have a couple of questions that I am hopeful someone can clarify.

Marilyn, Marybeth, Diana, and Rachael have written extensively about the specific tolls, whether they were .40 or .80, what time of day, how many did they miss, how responsible the daughter is, etc. You guys also seem to know Joe from previous blogs? or just have become aggravated with him over this one?

It would have been nice if you were more succinct, but I think your point is that somehow the Illinois Tollway authority, and the Naperville Police have targeted the Napergate man because of his past, and are using 4-5 missed tolls that took place a number of years ago to arrest him this time?

Is it your belief that he was specifically targeted last July? Is it also your belief that law enforcement officers routinely let people off the hook for far more serious crimes? Really? your case would be better made if you could cite a few examples, then we really would have a story wouldn't we?

I believe Marilyn called this particular violation minor and Marybeth commented that this girl paid her tolls 98% of the time so whats the big deal? I would like to know what other crimes you consider minor?

I am happy to hear that Napergate's daughter is enrolled in medical school, perhaps after graduating she can achieve a goal of obeying the law 100% of the time like most of us!

One last question, If the car was registered under his name how was the Police Officer supposed to know to let this particular guy go because his daughter is really the one who drives it most of the time?

I think we are geting off subject. It has been known for a long time that Joe lies and distorts and will never change. He gets his Rises when he gets caught lying. Some thieves can only get a rise if they are caught in the commission of a robbery.

But really we are letting the NPD off by focusing on Joe. I am sure Joe is a character created by the NPD to keep the heat off of them. I suspect he is the Deputy Chief in charge of public relations! It is only a suspicion and I have no proof!

The NPD needs to make a statement as to why they felt this deep desire to arrest, humiliate and jai a Naperville Hero for something he had no knowledge of and did not commit. Something they do not normally hand cuff people for.

I am willing to guess if the Naperville Sun issued an FOIA for all similar case in the last 5 years, they would find most were allowed to voluntarily come to the NPD and released on their own personal recognizance without ever having spent a minute in a jail cell let alone an e

This whole arrest smells pretty rotten to me.

You arrest a guy but say nothing in the police report as if arresting and jailing people are not big deals in our society anymore.

This case really exposes discrimination in our town. One group of citizens are treated one way. Another group of citizens are treated another way.

I guess if you have connections to city officials you don't get arrested for petty suspensions. If you have no connections, you are arrested and jailed overnight for petty suspensions.

If you have the same political views of the Police Chief you are not arrested. If your views differ from his, you are arrested and jailed.

This discretion cops possess does bother me when it is abused in the reverse manner it was intended to be used! If police officers don't have the common sense to use discretion, they should be stripped of their discretionary powers.

The Sergeant in this case should be stripped of all discretionary powers and given a desk job shuffling paper work. He should not be a sworn officer. He should be permanently demoted to civilian status in the NPD.

And where is Internal Affairs when you need them? As one one blogger said Internal Affairs was made for Public Consumption and really has no function.

Stop playing games Joe! Diana burned you pretty good!

You could care less about the daughter going thru once or twice or .40 cents or .80 cents.

Your only intention was to destroy the Napergate Man's friends credibility and you failed miserably. The Napergate Man obviously released this accurate information to his friends a while back.

Now, it seems some Tollway Official disguised as Diana gives us the hard core facts down to the second. And once again as always in the past the Napergate Man's credibilty holds up.

I guess his friend Randy told us a while back in the print edition of the Naperville Sun, this Napergate Man is just not going to lie. He seems to know the truth is somehow always uncovered from his life's experiences sooner or later. That is why he always tells the truth or keeps his mouth shut.

What you have not learnied Joe, with 61,000 views per week to Ted's Threads someone is going to "call you out" when you attempt to lie. Today, Diana called you out!

We will have to see who calls you out tomorrow.

I bet you wished you stayed away from the Napergatge Blogs. You would still have some credibility. And you still seem to have a vendetta against that Ameena chick who you were fighting with for weeks about a parking spot. Now you want us to believe the girl that was elected best blogger is also not credible. Yes, Joe we are all stupid for voting for her and not for you.

Napergate Threads are for the professionals. You have proven time and again Joe that you are just an amateur learning how to crawl.

Now the facts are unraveling my dear Joe, do you really feel it was necessary for your buddies in the police dept. to hand cuff and jail the Napergate Man for such a petty violation when they let many others slide on much more serious violations? Try to answer this question Joe instead of switching the story to a 17 year old girl who did much better than other 17 year old boys or girls. If you followed the blogs this girl now happens to be in medical school. So she does not sound to be much of a loser to me.

She is probably on her way to being a doctor clueless and carefree that we are now bloggin aout her. Boy, do we all know how to waste time on these threads about silly issues created by the abuse of discretion by our Boys in Blue!

If you think about it, the daughter did the wrong thing twice as many times as I originally thought because I was giving her the benefit of the doubt that it was a to/from trip in one evening and the whole night she had no money on her person. Joe.

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Joe,
Very clever attempt to change the story from your credibility to the 16 year older having money or not. Since they were obviously round trips as you indicated it clearly showed she paid her tolls when she had money and was in the right lanes. I think it actually makes her look better that she paid once each of those 4 days not worse. And she paid twice all the hundreds of days in between. So she is really not that bad of a girl from what I can see. If you pay 196 tolls our of 200 and your 16 years old without an I-PASS(do not even know if they existed then in 2002 and 2003) that is 98% or a A+ for a 16 or 17 year older.

Ameena does not know the Napergate Man or his daughters. She used the word "I assume." And there is something called morning rush hour and 3 of those violations could have occurred in morning rush hour which is just as bad as afternoon rush hour.

In Ameena's assumptions she was not trying to attack anyone. She was trying to detail the scenario to the best of her ability. In your case you made false assumptions and accussations to take a stab at the credibility of others. Well, sorry Joe, but those false assumtion you made to bite away at others came back and bit you right in the butt!

Joe and SWT thankyou for having a brain. You dont get personal, you dont take sides, you present the most logical ideas and no one ever responds to your comments because they cant. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 27, 2008 01:09 PM

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Anoymous,
You made a fool of yourself for speaking an hour and 11 minutes too soon. Diana presented the facts to show your buddies, Joe and SWT are a little lacking in brain power. They do get personal and they do take sides contrary to what you are saying.

Diana responded to their facts with solid Tollway Data that exposed Joe's lies. And how dumb of you, Mr. Anonymous, to say no one can respond to your buddies comments. Diana ripped them both apart and their credibilities. And of course your credibility to boot along with theirs! I guess you never had any in the first place as Anonymous bloggers have no credibility.

Diana,

Thank you for providing more facts relevant to the case. These were indeed prior to the cash price hike on Jan 1, 2005. It was never stated anywhere before exactly WHEN the toll violations took place so this adds another piece to the puzzle.

Ameena's account:

"10. It is undisputed that the Napergate Man's license had been suspended without his knowledge. It is also undisputed that his daughters did run thru the coin booth area of the Oak Brook Tollway Plaza, were caught without change and decided to proceed as there were dozens of cars behind them honking their horns during rush hour, I assume. The Tollway even had pictures proving his daughters committed these violations. These pictures and a notice stating we "MAY" suspend your license if these tolls are not paid were mailed to the Napergate Man. Unfortunately, this bulk sales looking notice showed up in the Napergate Man's mailbox one day after his arrest and incarceration."

Marybeth then says: "If his daughters only use the toll booth every few months it may not make economic sense to buy them a transponder."

If someone would have said the violations were prior to 2005, I would have computed them as being 40 cent violations. Either way, we say and agree now that you provided the data requested that they are $1.60 in violations and she ran the toll booth 4 times and not 2 times.

If you think about it, the daughter did the wrong thing twice as many times as I originally thought because I w