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Smile, you're on red light camera

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Naperville embraces the Big Brother era in earnest on March 1 when it begins operating red light cameras at two locations, the intersections of Fort Hill Drive and Aurora Avenue and 95th Street and Book Road. Are you going to change your driving habits because of them?

The Naperville Police Department will issue warning citations March 1 through March 31. Beginning April 1 red light violation citations will be issued.

Citations will be issued to motorists who run red lights without stopping, to drivers who make right turns against red lights without stopping and to drivers who stop after crossing the limit line/stop bar while making a right turn against a red light, forcing a pedestrian or a bicyclist into the roadway. However, if a motorist enters an intersection on a green light that turns to red before they have a chance to make a left turn, no citation will be issued.

Is this going to change the way you drive? Will you avoid these interesections for now, or be more careful if you encounter a red light at them? Is this going to change the way you drive, in any way?

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54 Comments

Does Naper really thinks a drunk driver who is going to run the redlight regardless will care if he is going to get ticketd and prevent a accident?

The key to this was stated near the start of the comments... Obey The Law. Everyone is stating excuses for why they don't need to do so. That's not right and in making a decision not to do so is not a choice you alone have the right to override the law. There are procedures for doing that and the only reason those of you arguing against the cameras wouldn't follow through with the proper method of changing the law is that you have no valid basis for doing so.

People don't know how to safely drive in most parts of the country and especially in Chicago. I have never seen so many people in the middle of an intersection to make a left on red as you do in Chicago! For that, we should have cameras that triple the fines for being totally stupid!

Being in the intersection causes major safety issues for everyone when an emergency vehichle approaches on the red-light side. Not all intersections have the emergency vehicle detection system to change the lights in their favor, so this enhances the problem for them to get through, as there are people in the middle of the road who mostly don't know what to do other than freeze like a deer in headlights when the see an emergency vehicle approaching! Plus, when you are in the middle of an intersection like that, you can't see around the cars in front of you. Staying back at the line gives you a much better angle and you can then for sure see when it is clear for you to go. Don't believe me? Draw it out on paper and you'll see that it's true. Thus, all you guys are doing is holding up the others behind you who want to turn left and can't because you sit there not knowing if it is clear or not to go!!!!

So for all you making excuses for how you unsafely and poorly drive, consider the cameras a wake-up call or, shock therapy. Maybe after a few high-dollar tickets it will sink in that you are not the upper authority on general public driving safety.

Dear Ho-Hum,

Don't forget that if you spray this stuff on your plates it can be detected. Just so doing doesn't say much about a persons ethics in the first place.

Now lets fast forward to the point where you actually run a red light, T-bone a vehicle proceeding through a green light and kill one or more occupants. If the States Attorney was so inclined I would be 100% in favor of him/her charging you with PREMEDITATED MURDER.

Fast forward a bit further. It won't be long before we don't even have license plates on cars. They are old school and nothing but they really are nothing but a nuisance from just about any perspective you might consider. In the future cars will be equipped with a chip transponder not much unlike what airplanes use to identify themselves. The red light camera, toll booth, and lots of other devices will be able to read the chip and positively identify the vehicle with 100% accuracy. Ignition keys will also be a thing of the past and drivers licenses and pin numbers will start cars. The chip will be able to identify both the vehicle and the driver with 100% accuracy. Steal a car? The chip will shut it down. Try to outrun a police vehicle? The police will be able to simply shut it down. Want to commit a crime using a vehicle? Plan on getting caught... and fast.

Maybe it is time to grow up and realize you are acting terribly immature trying to hide behind a $29 can of spray paint. The only person laughing is the guy who is able to get the $29 out of your pocket. What is the old saying... a fool and his money are what?

Ho-hum: Grow up you idiot!!! There is no need to make such an ignorant comment about Mayor Pradel!! I dont know you from Adam, but it is safe to say Mayor Pradel is ten times the person you are. Jim Lynch, why do you allow this crap on the blog? Scott Huber.

First and foremost, there is a spray that works, and is LEGAL, and has been tested by several PD's across the country. Google Photo Blocker and you will see their site, and the retailers who sell the spray. At $29 a can, it will treat 4 plates. It works by simply spraying 4 to 5 coats of the pray over a clean liscense plate. It produces and undetectable gloss on the plate, and when the camera flash hit's it, it over develops the pic deeming it unlegible. It has worked cause I tested it in Chicago 3 times in 2 days last fall. Never got a citation in the mail. Tried it on the Tollway for a day, never got dinged, although I do pay my tolls since the 355 extension has made my life easier. Remember, what man makes, man can solve. The cameras are not cool, the tickets are sent by the camera manufactuer and not the PD. The people drawing up the tickets are civillians and not actual village cops. Sounds fishy? it should, some Lawyer is going to get these banned one day as they did in the State of Minnesota, thus the state reimbursing all those fines they collected. Tell Pradel not spend that money all in one place, perhaps he should learn to drive a snow plow, or better yet, pick out a casket, what is he now 800 years old?

Jim,

In reading all of the posts from "anonymous", I have to ask if there is more than one "anonymous"? For Potluck, any chance you could get posters to use one name consistently. Little orphan annie?

From reading their last post, it appears that you are in fact part of the red light conspiracy.

:-) Have a nice day

Mark

PS Just chatting, no need to post

Well Jim, I'm not sure that taunting is exactly the best way to treat your customers. And if you are trying to wind me up you aren't succeeding either.

Scared to drive? Not one bit. My normal is 30-40K every year, a lot more years ago, and I haven't had a traffic ticket in over 20 years. And that's not bragging. I'm not sure why you are motivated to mock someone who is interested in learning the right way to interact with new technology and hopes that information can be shared with the rest of our community. Shame on you!

Moderators sometimes do have a tough job, but when they stoop to the level I've seen recently with some of the name calling the only difference we end up with is the moderator gets the last word and controls the delete key. If you want this blog to be a success you might want to really think about this. I do think the average reader would expect the Naperville Sun to travel a bit higher road than what has been shown recently on some threads. But I digress.

Red light cameras are a national issue, not a local issue. Do your own research. Read what the manufacturers have to say about their product and the dollar signs they use to entice cities to install them. Research how many cities have had serious problems and how other media has reported on these problems. Like any technology there are problems and bugs. It is not perfect. Check out the NTSA website. The potential problems related to these systems is huge. Look at some of the cities that have stopped using the systems because they have had 50% increase in rear-end collisions at these intersections.

For a real interesting read go to the National Motorists Association website. They have a ton of interesting articles, what follows below I've copied from their front page:

$10,000 Ticket Camera Challenge

The NMA knows that engineering solutions are the real way to prevent red-light violations and accidents at problematic intersections. In fact, we are willing to wager $10,000 to prove that engineering will work better than ticket cameras.

The revenue from ticket cameras serves as a reward to cities that fail to make motorists safer through proper signal timing, better signal design, and improved intersections. The apparent increase in red-light violations is largely the result of a 20-year pattern of deliberately changing the standards for the timing of yellow lights. This is an engineering problem, not an enforcement issue. Today we say to the communities that employ ticket cameras, "Let's put traffic engineering solutions to the test."

Here's our challenge:

Show us any camera-equipped intersection that still has high numbers of red-light violations and we will guarantee a minimum 50-percent reduction in red-light violations through the application of engineering solutions.

If our recommendations fail to meet our minimum goal, we will pay the community $10,000 to be used on any traffic safety program or project it chooses. However, if we succeed, the community must employ our engineering-based recommendations at other troublesome intersections and scrap its ticket-camera program.

What do you have to lose, other than your ticket-camera revenue? If you have any questions about this challenge or you believe your community would be interested in participating, please contact the NMA at (608) 849-6000 or via email at nma@motorists.org.

Moderator Jim: Your above point is well-taken. Sorry to have been harsh.

Hmm, this would make a great public education story. Sorry the Naperville Sun don't see it that way. I guess newspaper people just aren't very detail oriented. Sorry the Naperville Sun doesn't understand that there are lots of different vendors selling different kinds of technology to different police department. How the systems are configured, how the computers and cameras are programed has the potential to vary from police department to police department. Just like the length of a yellow light these systems will be configured based upon the policies of individual police department and the instructions they give to their vendors. At present there are no state standards established for these systems. The potential exists at present for Aurora and Naperville to treat identical situations differently and the Naperville Sun could play a big role in helping establish some consistency and uniformity. Sorry the Naperville Sun doesn't see that as a public interest story it's readers would welcome.

Well, you can't say the Naperville Sun didn't get first crack at it. Maybe the Daily Herald or the Tribune will be interested in helping better inform there readers.

Moderator Jim: If you're trying to wind me up, you're not succeeding. Think of the public service we offered by telling you guys whre the red light cameras would be. I think you'rel scared too death to actually get out there and drive.....oooooh - you might get a ticket.

Sorry, I'm afraid I wasn't clear. We have all been in situations where we have been caught at the tail end of yellow light and probably thought we made it through ok. Now, it will be like watching an NFL replay! Frame by frame someone will advance the film until the light turns red and where exactly is the car and the line. Milliseconds will make a difference.

No solid details have been reported on right turn on red. For example, what is a complete stop? How long must a car remain motionless? If we overshoot a stop line, stop, then turn red will it be a violation. If we overshoot a stop line, stop, but don't complete the turn until green will it still be a violation. These are technical issues that the police have, dear lord let's hope, already discussed and agreed with the red light camera vendor. And there are all kinds of them for each of the different maneuvers... I've just shared a couple of examples.

Nothing on the NPD website or the previous Naperville Sun articles get into this level of detail. No one wants to open their mail and receive a "gotcha" citation... and these will ALL be based on technicalities. It is only fair to share these details with the citizens who are both paying for this system and trying to comply.

If these technical details won't be shared then maybe it is time for another Freedom of Information filing?

Moderator Jim: I think all the stuff is already out there like Ted said. here;s no need for a FOI filing on this one.

To Jim Lynch,

March 1 is drawing closer and the first red light systems will soon be up and running.

I'd like to make a suggestion that the Naperville Sun sit down with the Naperville Police Department and write a public education type article so we all know better how this new system will operate and most importantly what we should expect of it and what we need to do to stay out of trouble.

I do think a lot of drivers are concerned because they hear stories about Bolingbrook and other places. A few years ago the traffic light pre-emption system was installed without a public education campaign and drivers were left to figure it out on their own. Same thing when center left turn lanes were first installed along with other traffic safety improvement over the years.

For a right turn on red it used to be pretty much ok if you just came to a complete stop. Now, it seems when, where, and for how long have become much more important questions for just this one maneuver. At most intersections we can go straight thru, turn right, turn left, or sometimes make a u-turn. That's pretty much it. So for each one of these maneuvers, from a red light camera perspective could the Naperville Police Department share with us what will be allowed without causing a violation? And more importantly what actions will result in a violation?

It is always harder to play the game if you don't know the rules!

Note from host:

Anonymous,

We've already conveyed pretty much everything you've asked for. There's more information here:

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/807329,6_1_NA22_REDLIGHT_S1.article

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/795688,6_1_NA15_REDLIGHT_S1.article

In addition, the city offers information that answers your questions here:

http://www.naperville.il.us/redlight.aspx

Hope that helps!

To our moderator,

The post by Mark at 8:50AM might be better served in a new blog category. For this thread on red light camera's it is way off-topic and only serves to spin this conversation off on a tangent.

Please delete or move.


Moderator Jim: Going to leave it up, but you're right and will note for future postings.

Since this appears to be the conspiracy theory page, I will take some liberty and post the best one I have seen in years. Red light cameras are the least of our worries.

This was sent to me in reference to the merger talks and working groups that are actively working on merging the US, Mexico and Canada into one legal entity; Sort of aping the EU while erasing the constitution. Unfortunately the activities are real. Erasing the Mexican border is phase one, anyone with eyes can see that this is well under way.

This is the only explanation of all of the “free trade” deals and wide open border policies that makes sense. Drive the cost of labor (that’s us) to zero. I know the CEO of a successful software company, he has been instructed by the board to move all of the back office work to China (HR Accounting etc) because the labor cost is 20% of the US. In addition, for several years all new engineering hires have been in China for the same reason, so there are about 200 Chinese engineers and 100 left in the US. The board is pressing the CEO to get rid of the US engineers. Driving the wages to zero is well under way and its not just the factory guys.

Message follows:


"I saw this one reported with denials on one of the evening new programs, I also heard the head of the teamsters talking about this one on CSPAN one morning. So the merger work is in fact real.

Amazingly, all of the merger work is being done under the radar.

The first video clip is a pretty scary assembly of the pieces that are out there, I hope its not 100% accurate, but I fear that it could be.

The second video clip is factual based on what I have seen and heard on the regular news mentioned above.

Pass it along


This is pretty creepy stuff."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxzs46Nxohk&feature=related

Bill L,

Obviously there will be more than one "Anonymous" on this blog. You will have to sort thru who is who. I just won't call you an idiot if I disagree with your opinion.

Enough with the conspiracy theories already. Way back when we both were kids a guy named George O. wrote a book and had his 15 minutes of fame. It was fiction then. It is fiction now. Stop seeing shadows where there is no sunshine for pete sake.

Do I get it? You bet I do and I hope you do. We are supposed to live in a civilized society. Part of being an adult and a responsible citizen in our civilized society means we voluntarily agree to follow the established rules of our society. Yes, that includes motor vehicle laws as well. We don't get to cherry pick only the laws we personally agree with. Since we live in a free and democratic society we have the ability to petition our government for change if we do not agree with the laws.

Failure to follow the law is generally considered some form of civil disobedience. Some forms may violate criminal law, other forms civil law and certain extreme actions could be construed as anarchy or worse. I want to be a responsible citizen so I try really hard not to break the law. You state you are a competitive auto racer. I've enjoyed the thrill of driving on the Autobahn where there are no speed limits and any speed is ok provided you have your car under control. I would love to have the same freedom here, but I realize I don't and must limit myself to the posted speed limits. I also recognize there are other difference between US and German cultures regarding lawsuits, liability, insurance, driving laws, and driving courtesies.

It is always interesting to see an issue in the US, almost any issue really, and it isn't long until some bleeding heart liberal start yelping about their Civil Rights being violated. My personal favorite of course are the animal lovers who advocate "animal rights". I'm not sure who or when lower forms of life were given rights or how even how many right, but I still can't seem to find any listed in our Bill of Rights. So Bill, please be specific and help us all understand... exactly which of your inalienable rights have been violated and please be specific.

Should the government have this type of authority? Well we gave the government the authority to put up stop signs and red lights didn't we? Can we all imagine the chaos that would exist if we just went and took them all down and just let everyone sort it out on there own out there? Can we all imagine how scary that would be? So on one hand we have legal compliance of coming to a full stop. On the other hand we have total chaos. In the middle we have some drivers coming to a full stop and some blowing off red lights. Certainly you do understand that if the government does nothing to enforce red light laws it won't be long until everyone is blowing red lights and we will have chaos.

Is that the form of civilized society we aspire to leave for future Americans to enjoy?

Bill L is an idiot. Civil Rights? You have got to be kidding. What about the rights of me and others not getting nailed in an intersection b/c of jerks like you? Go ahead and hide behind George Orwell or some other BS...the fact is the Government does have this right, as we elected them and "supposedly" they represent us. Not sure I really follow the "have you ever had any type of tickets"? If sending a few hundred of these tickets to these self centered jerks yapping on cell phones, distracted or just in a rush then so be it. I cant wait until they put more of these up, finally! Maybe this is just tied to some giant government conspiracy...red light cameras, tapping phone calls and the TSA...yup, they are all in it together holding clandestine meetings and keeping poor patriots like Bill from expressing their rights...God, what some Naperville residents have become!

Dear Anonymous:

You are still missing the point. It is the Big Brother, George Orwell scenario. Nothing more and nothing less. You still don't get it do you. What about Civil Rights?? Should the government have this type of authority ??

You still have not answered my question. Have you ever had any type of tickets and what about the soccer moms ??

As for me taking a drivers course that really isn't necessary seeing as I carry a valid Competition Racing license and professionally race at speeds well over the 200 mph mark. I think that I have a pretty good idea of what it takes. As we go faster and faster we upgrade our license, and take physicals 1-2 years depending on license rating. I also exercise daily to keep better fit and alert. You are barking up the wrong tree again. I have also been driving for over 44 years.

As for me I am old school. Pay attention to what you are doing, so that I don't have too.


Bill L

Dear Bill,

You offered to go further west. I just encouraged you to follow-through.

You don't like red light cameras? Then I suppose you don't like stores with video cameras either and you take your business elsewhere?

You suggest putting police on every street corner knowing full well that is never going to happen, isn't economically feasible, and needlessly exposes our police officers to additional risk of injury.

If you are planning to move west... well it better be pretty far west... like Wyoming or there abouts. If you don't think the entire metropolitan Chicago area will be saturated with red light cameras in the next 5 years you are in denial. They are coming, like it or not and the majority of law abiding drivers think they are a good idea.

If you are so adverse to adopting new and more effective technology why don't you walk the walk? Give up your computer and email and send letters to the editor by mail instead. While you are at it you can give up all of your wireless and cellular phones... a good old land line is all you need. Etc, etc.

This really is a simple issue... if you are not stealing from a store you have nothing to fear from the store security system. If you are not blowing red lights you have nothing to fear from a red light camera.

Anyone who fears a red light camera should recognize that their fear is really a manifestation of their own recognition that they will likely be caught by their own bad driving behaviour/habits. Sure no one wants to hear they are a lousy driver. Sure no one want to pay a fine.

So estimate how much you are going to pay in red light camera fines and then channel that money to a better, more positive outcome by taking a defensive driving course for yourself. It is never too late to become a better and safer driver. Then you can become a better driver role model for everyone else to aspire to be like.

I wonder if the numerous cops that make a habit of running red lights will also get tickets, or if the laws that we must obey still will not apply to them.


Dear Anonymous:

This is not a knee jerk reaction. Unlike you telling me to run to Oswego or Aurora. At least I am not hiding by the name Anonymous. I am sick and tired of you whiners and bleeding heart liberals trying to protect me from myself not to mention you and you family. Quit loosing lame excuses and don't be jumping on the me about your and your family. How about the soccer moms with the van loaded with kids, feeding them twinkies, talking on the cell phone and taking up two lanes of traffic in doing so, but I guess that this is "OK"

You pass judgement on me ----- Who are you. Have you never speeded or blown a red light in your driving career. But I guess that you, like most of the people in Naperville think you can walk on water.

As for me, I probably will be moving in several years to the west. This at one time was a great town. I have been here for 30 years. This town has lost all of its charm. Can't do this, Can't do that. Maybe you are happy loosing a lot of little things but I am not.

Do I want to see anyone killed or in an accident. Heck no. I have no problem with tickets being issued. But they should be issued by the police in person and not some computor. Let the police do their job. For years they have been sneaking around in unmarked cars issuing speeding tickets. Why can't they monitor the intersections in a clandestine operation. But I guess with the red light cameras they could lay some police off or go out and chase terrorists or something and once again I can get the warm an fuzzy feeling again.

This is nothing more than a revenue builder and a "make me feel warm and fuzzy" situation. Who are you kidding?

Bill L

Obey the law Naperville sweeties. I'm sick and tired of having to wait 10 seconds when the light changes green to make sure some self-centered napervillian doesn't run the light. As great as this city is I'm embarassed sometimes by the total disregard for the rules of the road. Get off the phones and drive the car.

It seems that everyone is assuming that there is a good deal of money to be made from tickets from the red-light cameras.

First we need to know how much will be paid to the company that owns the cameras, monitors them, and sends out the tickets. Is this amount known? It is probably very substantial. Therefore, it would take a lot of tickets (continually) to cover this portion of the costs. Most of the drivers at these intersections are likely repeat drivers (either daily or on a regular basis). And, over time, the tickets issued would diminish as either drivers avoid the intersections or become more responsible drivers.

Thus, it is feasible that it could be a money loser.

The Council vote tally cited in Joe Shoe's 2/25 posting is wrong. The vote was 5-4, with Pradel, Boyajian, Miller, Rosanove and Wehrli in favor of automated red light enforcement, and Fieseler, Furstenau, Krause and Senger against. I've set out the relevant portion of the minutes from the Nov 20 Council meeting below.

Also, with the outcry about the $2.4M revenue projection from red light running fines for 2 intersections (1000 ticket/month), we may not have heard the last of my proposal not to automatically issue tickets for rolling rights-on-red.

Ordinance No. 07-248, adding Section 9 (Automated Traffic Enforcement System) to Chapter 1 Title 11 of the City of Naperville Municipal Code (Tabled 11/6/07, N4).

Council asked for information about Bolingbrook’s suspension of the use of the red light enforcement cameras.

Dial stated that the Bolingbrook Deputy Chief of Police said that they suspended the use of cameras because they met the goal of reducing traffic accidents by forty percent and the program would be reevaluated in the future.

Council discussed enforcement for cars stopping after the limit line for right turns on red, the location of the cameras, whether the City would continue to pay a fee after a camera is disabled, and the fee collection process.

Dial stated that enforcement criteria would be the same as if an officer were writing a citation at the location.

Ely said that she believed that there is a 30 day termination clause in the contract which could be invoked if the cameras were disabled.

Schatz explained that the system will be implemented on local streets first because the City does not know what the impact will be on resources in the Police department, Legal department, and the DuPage County court system.

Wehrli moved to pass the Ordinance adding Section 9 (Automated Traffic Enforcement System) to Chapter 1, Title 11 of the City of Naperville Municipal Code. Second, Miller.

Fieseler moved to amend this ordinance to include a provision that this red light technique of automatic enforcement will not be employed to issue citations for right turns on red, unless a pedestrian or bicyclist is in the crosswalk. Second, Furstenau.

Council discussed the cost effectiveness of automatic red light enforcement instead of adding personnel to the Police Department. They discussed the ticket and fine limits.

Miller called the question on the amendment.

VOICE VOTE on the amendment:
Motion declared not carried.

Rosanova called question.
Furstenau objected.

ROLL CALL to close debate:
Ayes: Rosanova, Senger, Wehrli, Pradel, Boyajian, Miller.
Nays: Fieseler, Furstenau, Krause.
Motion declared carried.

Fieseler objected to voting on the ordinance because the agenda has a notation to waive the first reading.

Ely responded that the agenda contained a scrivener’s error and the minutes from November 6, 2007 that were approved earlier in this agenda reflect the vote to waive the first reading occurred and was carried.

ROLL CALL on main motion:
Ayes: Wehrli, Pradel, Boyajian, Miller, Rosanova.
Nays: Senger, Fieseler, Furstenau, Krause.
Motion declared carried.

To Holli A,

Speeding thru yellow lights or shall we really say speeding up to beat the light is a nasty part of American traffic culture which we should all work to change.

Drivers who have driven an automobile in Germany knows or quickly learns that German drivers slow down and stop when a light turns yellow. Try to beat a yellow light over there and sooner or later you will rear-end someone.

To a certain extent I can understand someone isn't paying close attention, probably speeding too... the light changes and they kind of clip the red light. What I do not understand in any way, shape, or form is what the two or three other drivers who follow them thru are thinking. Or are they? Take a good look when you see someone run a red light or a stop sign... 90+% of them are talking on a cell phone. I'm willing to bet a good number of them are so detached from actually driving their car that they do not know they just ran a red light/stop sign and all they see is something bigger than them that they might perceive as a last minute threat.

Anyone else notice another recent phenomenon... semi-trailer trucks who lay on the horn and proceed thru red lights. Drive up and down Rt 59 if you haven't seen this fantastic example of dangerous driving. I guess these clowns all got their drivers licenses back when Ryan was Sec of State and now think they have the same right of way as emergency vehicles.

AGAIN, I would like to point out that I nearly DIED because someone was speeding through a yellow light because he was late to work. AGAIN, I would like to point out that if he had been concerned about getting a ticket, he might have slowed down instead, and I would not have had to endure what I did. AGAIN, I have to ask everyone that if someone you love were killed or injured due to someone else rushing through a light when they should be slowing down instead, would you still be against the cameras?

To Bill L,

Would you like some cheese with that whine? Once you get over your short term knee-jerk reaction; have you considered where you will hide next when Aurora and Oswego install their red light cameras? Well, it is perfectly ok with me if you want to keep moving further west... one less unsafe driver in my neighborhood to deal with. Good riddance, go!

This isn't about Big Brother. This is about spoiled, arrogant drivers who think they are too important or too busy or too whatever for the traffic laws to apply to them.

No one who obeys the law will ever get a ticket. For those who are whining about having gotten caught... consider this... how many other red lights and stop signs have you blown without getting caught? Try doing us all a favor and try learning to drive safer. Do the right thing. Do the smart thing. Come to a FULL stop at every red light and stop sign. Maybe, just maybe you won't kill me, my spouse, my kids, or someone else I love. Maybe you won't even kill yourself or innocent passengers in your car. Is that a bad thing? Are the mere seconds saved really worth the risk and danger?

Will my driving habits change? Yes they will. I just recently closed two of my bank accounts that are near the 95th.&Book road intersection. I will no longer be doing any business, as well in that general area. The same applies to the other intersections as well. I will probably drive to Aurora or Oswego and shop even if gas is over $3.00 a gallon. It's the principle.
This Big Brother has to STOP. Enough is enough. Isn't it amazing that any of us made it this far without red light cameras. Police should be doing their job and not relying on a computer camera or any other camera.

I think a petition should be started by the people to have these camera's removed. Maybe with enough signitures we could get rid of them.

Red light camera's in general are a good thing. Sad to say, but they would not be needed if people simply obeyed the law. Disagree, they lobby your representative to change the law... they are responsible for both the Motor Vehicle laws and, now, red light cameras. You don't want a ticket? Simply stop at stop signs and red lights. Red light cameras are not asking anyone to do anything that they should not already be doing.

Any one who blows a stop sign or a red light made a conscious CHOICE and they alone are responsible for the choice they made. Granted, we do not have enough police officers on traffic patrol. As a result a lot of drivers have developed a lot of really bad driving habits. And they have gotten away with it for so long they now consider the wrong way the right way. Go figure.

As for the red light traffic laws I actually think our representatives were way too easy on offenders. If you rob a bank they can use the recording in court to convict you. So why the weak knees with red light cameras? Why no moving violation? Why just a $100 fine? Why isn't this treated at the same level as if a police officer witnessed the act? We now have traffic cameras on the toll road and at some railroad crossings that can dish up some serious fines and moving violations. Red light camera's do smack of nothing more than a revenue generator for both the company who installs them and the city based upon the fine system. If it truly is intended to improve public safety and if it truly is needed to reduce accidents, injuries, and death then a double standard should not be acceptable.

Having said that I also believe these systems have the potential to become nothing more than a "southern speed trap". The state should be setting standards regarding what is filmed and how, when, where, what, why, etc. What type of resolution, color or B&W, frame rate, how many pictures are taken or length of video? More importantly there should be better standards regarding design of intersections, sight lines, placement of stop lines, etc., etc. to avoid those tickets that are truly borderline.

It will also be interesting to see when the lawyers go after a certain aspect of enforcement... it has been said that if you enter an intersection and then complete a left turn after the light changes that you will not be ticketed. Actually the law, as currently written, says that it is illegal to ENTER an intersection unless you can safely perform the maneuver intended... so if you are making a left turn you are supposed to wait behind the stop line until it is safe to enter and complete your turn in one motion. You are not supposed to pull into the middle of the intersection and wait. This sets up a precedent of selective enforcement... it is ok to do this on left, but not on right? I'll bet this one gets interesting.

Say, has anyone else noticed that red light camera's have already been installed at Naper Blvd and Warrenville Road? Yep, and the Lucent intersection one light to the west... Who installed and will operate these cameras?

For the record,
These two voted AGAINST the red light cameras.
- Dick Furstenau Furstenaur@naperville.il.us
- Darlene Senger sengerd@naperville.il.us

These folks voted IN Favor of red light cameras.
- James E. Boyajian Boyajianj@naperville.il.us
- Robert W. Fieseler fieselerr@naperville.il.us
- Kenn Miller millerk@naperville.il.us
- John Rosanova jrosanova@msn.com
- Grant E. Wehrli wehrlig@naperville.il.us
- Douglas Krause kraused@naperville.il.us
The people for red lights said they were doing it for safety and Not for revenue, but Krause let slip his real intention late in the meeting when someone asked why the county roads had not picked up the cameras yet. Krause responded essentially ...I don't know why they (the county) wouldn't want the extra revenue.

There are video recording kept of this/all city council meetings.

To Holli A.

Well spoken, but of course you have those who won't see your point until a tragedy or near tragedy happens in their life.

I don't need a tragedy to see your point. So what if Big Brother is watching. Some of us need to be watched.

Jim, speaking of Anger Management, I wonder what BIG DICK Furst's take is on this issue? BIG DICK has been pretty quiet on this issue....HUBER FOR MAYOR/2010

While I agree with the general consensus that these cameras will be a big money generator for the city, and I feel that the cameras are a little "Big Brother"-ish, THE FACT IS - accidents are reduced when these cameras are there.

As someone who nearly DIED due to an inexperienced teenager speeding through a yellow light (he swerved to avoid someone else turning through the yellow light accross from him and hit me at 55 mph), I have to say I am in favor of them. If this kid had been more concerned about getting a ticket instead of getting to work on time, he might have slowed down instead of plowing into me.

Think about this - if someone you love were killed or injured because someone else was trying to rush through an intersection, would you still be against the cameras? If just one of these cameras can get more people to stop when the light turns yellow instead of speeding up, and can prevent even one more accident like mine, then the aggrivation it causes everyone else is worth it.

Hey jwh - I would suggest you take anger management classes or even better, take the bus. Your level of acrimony leads me to believe that you may soon experience an episode of road rage.

The goal of government is to take our money for what they deem necessary so more than likely they will be at every corner and may in the future include speeding tickets, lane violations, driving too slow, only one hand on the steering wheel, spitting , and whatever other reason they can employ to make money. Oh yeah, how long will it take for the cell phone talkers, the coffee drinkers or the french fry eaters to get tickets. Remember, they're from the government and they are here to take care of you.

Think that far fetched - think again. The nanny state continues to grow to accommodate those that apparently cannot think for themselves. We cannot continue to allow the advancement of radical individualism at the expense of community. We just cannot.

I wish they'd put them at every stoplight intersection. EVERYWHERE!!

I'm sick of a**es running red lights, especially on the turn arrows.

I live a mere few blocks from the intersection at Fort Hill & Aurora Avenues and pass through that intersection nearly every time I leave the house. I have alerted all drivers in my household to be sure to completely stop before turning right.

I have to say that I have never seen someone that "rolls" a stop when turning right to cause a problem at this intersection. There have been a few drivers on Aurora Ave that run the light, however, and I can almost see justifying the cameras for that purpose. The Naperville PD is rarely visible at all. I have personally witnessed drivers run lights, roll right turns on red and the like within eyesight of NPD -- and nothing happens. The officer just goes about their business.

I think it makes more sense for the PD to do a "blitz" on specific intersections (yes, even during rush hour) and ticket the offenders. Undoubtedly the same people are the ones that run the light time after time. Hit those people in their pocket book, not the folks who don't come to a "complete" stop when making a right turn.

In fact, how about if the PD enforces all the existing laws, parking and the like, and doesn't wait for a resident to call with a complaint to enforce a parking violation?

I have followed closely the introduction of the recent tax increase disguised as red light cameras. Virtually every Village, City and even DuPage County will soon have these huge money makers working for them twenty-four hours per day, 365 days per year.

They talk about ticketing vehicles and not drivers as if this was merely a parking ticket. It won’t appear on your license but it will still cost you $100 – at least TODAY!

The cameras in Bolingbrook generated $178,000 in the first two months of activation with an additional $200,000 billed by merely enforcing the letter vice the intent of the law. Apparently Naperville will continue this tradition. According to a Naperville Police press release which appeared in the Naperville Sun, “Citations will be issued to motorists who run red lights without stopping, to drivers who make right turns against red lights without stopping, and to drivers who stop after crossing the limit line/stop bar while making a right turn against a red light, forcing a pedestrian or a bicyclist into the roadway”. We all agree about running red lights and making right hand turns without stopping, even at 3 am I’m sure, but what of the stopping prior to the limit line/stop bar? We had all better practice that one because we aren’t really used to stopping that far from the intersection. Remember, it’s $100 if you cross that line! Notice as you drive the streets of Naperville how difficult that can be.

Has government ever disclosed the fact that cameras actually precipitate accidents at these intersections? Most studies have detailed the fact that rear end accidents increase after implementation of the cameras. At every Village or City camera introduction they preach that the primary reason is to reduce accidents at so called dangerous intersections. Does anyone ever disclose the actual study documenting a proven rational for these dollar generators or their efficacy after implementation? Just what percent reduction in accidents is anticipated by the presence of these cameras? Common sense will tell you that cameras will do NOTHING to prevent the side impact accident. Those drivers are either drunk or not paying any attention what so ever to enter an intersection 5 seconds after the light has turned red and has absolutely nothing to do with “making the yellow”.

You probably have noted that government is always able to provide a projected income figure after activating these wonderful devices but never reports the projected reductions in accidents do they? Bolingbrook says accidents were reduced 40% in the six months they had their cameras activated. Many say this occurred only because people just simply avoided the intersections with cameras. According to the Naperville Police between 2003 and 2005 the Fort Hill and Aurora Avenue intersection experienced a total of 69 accidents or less than one accident per month. Can the new Naperville red light camera realistically reduce that number to maybe zero? Oh yeah!

As always it’s about the money and pandering for votes, you know it and I know it and I resent Naperville along with all those other Village and Cities lying to us about it! Government has entered businesses under the guise of “saving” us by prohibiting smoking, a totally legal activity. Oh yeah, they’re working on that and will probably soon be selling licenses to those establishments that wish to permit smoking. Yup, more money. And now the government has come to save us with their red light cameras.

Anyone remember when we were told you would never get stopped and ticked for solely a seat belt violation? They changed that didn’t they? Today it is red light cameras and we can only guess what will be next, and we all know that there will be a next.

Only those people that believe that we are going to receive our health care for free and that government does not demand more and more money from the taxpayer would doubt that there will be more to follow: yes, much more of a “protective government” taking more and more of our money.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." –Edmund Burke

Red light cameras have been proven over and over again to raise both money for the installing body, and also to increase the number of accidents at the intersections. I would avoid these intersections, as the typical first year increase in accidents is 25-40%, and about 10% per year after, much higher than normal.

Our government would not have put them at intersections if was for safety; they read the reports. They're there for income.

Obey the law.

It really is as simple as those 3 words, at least to me and a few others.

What's the big rush. We're all just going to die one day anyway.

Great move. There are too many people who are turning on red and going through red lights. City, State and County Authorities: PUHLEEZE do all of Route 59. I am sick of waiting for the ignorant, illegal left turners on red getting stuck in the intersection and holding me up while I have a green light. Please do Ogden and Route 59 next.

What a bunch of fools! Who cares if the city makes some money off of a few cameras? Maybe you conspiracy theorists should spend some time on the local streets around Naperville and witness how many jerks run though intersections without even slowing down...yes, maybe the city will earn a little $$$$. Don't run red lights and it wont be an issue for you.

The reality is dozens and dozens of idiots in Naperville run red lights every day like they dont really give a damn about the safety of others. How many times do you see those HUGE gravel trucks barrel through the "long turned" red lights only to narrowly miss hitting some innocent driver? Unfortunately it is the same jerks who drive 50 in a 25 zone only b/c their precious time is more important than the safety of kids or others.

As in the UK when all this surveillance was getting started, we see the same tired old arguments trotted out.

In Naperville there is a 'no cruising' zone. "Illegal to pass control point more than twice in 3 hours." Why not enforce that 24x7 with an automatic license plate recognition camera? That should certainly catch out young 'cruisers', and also people who are lost, but who cares, right? The law is the law! Pay up the $200 ticket!

And if Naperville Police pull up a driver who turns out to be an illegal immigrant, of course, that's breaking the law, so he or she will immediately be detained and handed over to ICE for a deportation hearing. What's that you say? That doesn't happen in 100% of cases? I thought the law was the law.

Anyone in favor of this, will find that maximum enforcement of any law which can be carried out electronically starts to get a bit expensive (unless you have clout and can get the tickets canceled). But you never go 1 MPH over the limit, and are happy with blanket surveillance, so that's great, I suppose.

The State of Illinios has jurisdiction over Route 59 & Ogden Ave and I believe 75th Street is controlled by the county which maybe is the reason the city could not initially install cameras along those roads. Hopefully the city will get permission to place cameras at intersections like 59 & 75th and Plainfield Naperville Rd & 75th. I have no problem with the city making money off of people who run red lights.

They are not installing the first phase of cameras at the intersections with the absolute most accidents because the City DOES NOT OWN or MAINTAIN those roadways. They just have to police them. Otherwise the first locations would have been killer intersections along Ogden, Rt. 59 and 75th streets. You may happily anticipate additional cameras at those locations as soon as the State and County agree. That should give all you complainers enough time to learn and practice a proper right turn on red. If it is too hard, ask your neighborhood 16 year old.

Yes, I would also like a list of the votes on this issue by each council member. I will *never* vote anyone who has authorized this transparent money grab.

To claim it is only about safety, yet to NOT put the cameras in the most crash-prone intersections makes the intentions perfectly clear. Don't give me this nonsense about having to get the county involved, etc.. If it's about safety, the effort would be worth it, right?

In the end, we'll get some lame talking points memo written by the chief of police himself (maybe as an article in the Naperville Sun!) as to why this is so good for our city. And soon we'll all be getting tickets for not coming to a complete stop at every red light in the city. The percentage of tickets given out at "red light" cameras for actually running the red light is rather small. It's all about the easiest way to issue the ticket, and watch what happens when you stop past that white line at one of these intersections.

Thank you city council for truly representing the residents of Naperville!

To Richard C: Hey Rich, I have a great idea, to prevent the city from getting rich (no pun intended), obey traffic laws!! If you dont run red lights, it shouldn't be a problemo. Also, if the speed limit is 55 mph, don't do 60....I believe the red cameras are a pretty good idea. Furthermore, I dont think this will make officers abandon the streets, it should provide MORE manpower, as these officers will no longer need to monitor the intersections in question...SCOTT HUBER FOR MAYOR/2010.

Please provide the list of people that voted for these cameras. I will be voting against them in the next election.

I think if the city could avoid ticketing the right turn on red violations when a vehicle stops forward of the line, the whole system would be fantastic.

Everyone is quick to point out that the Bolingbrook camera lights brought in a "gravy train" but they also enjoyed a 40 percent reduction in the number of accidents at those intersections. If you have never been T boned by a driver running a red light or a stop sign, then just keep sitting on your high horse. I have and in fact, just a few weeks ago a friend swerved to avoid hitting a car running a red light, forcing her vehicle into a light pole. $8,000 worth of damage and do you seriously think the offender stuck around to confess? How would the situation be different if there had been red light cameras at that intersection?

I can't wait for the City and County to agree to put them on signals all along Rt.59, Ogden Ave. and 75th Street. It may just keep the extra 6 cars from turning left on red.

WOW! What a different response from the initial discussions about these money makers. They have been working late, 11 pm, to finalize the install of these non-tax increase money generators. I wonder just how much income Naperville has budgeted for their initial two installs?

Want to bet on their effectiveness for accident reduction? What a joke, albeit an expensive one for the residents.

As I wrote when this was first proposed, follow the money. If the City Council was really serious about the so-called safety factor, then they can prove it by donating all the revenue generated from fines to a local charity or to the schools. This is simply a money grab but a less than honest City Council.

My driving habits won't change at all but my view of the City of Naperville will. I have the feeling that, like Chicago, cameras at intersections are sold to the public as a safety enhancer but in reality, they are supposed to be an income generator for the city. Don't you think the cameras were sold to the city based on an analysis of how quickly they would pay for themselves and generate additional revenue? Will the city be able to have one or two fewer police officers as a result of this new technology?

I expect that when the right turn on red tickets start flowing in Naperville (like they did in Bolingbrook), the yelling will really start. Just remember which city councilmen were for and against this
"safety plan".

They missed their golden opportunity of putting them in on route 59 for the left-turn lanes. It is customary to witness 5 cars continue to flow through after they get the red light and the oncoming traffic side has already gone green.

It will be fun to see what fate the local pranksters have in mind for them.

The only issue I have is the public safety justification for the cameras. For once could they just print the truth which is "The city of Naperville needs more money until we can raise your local property and sales tax again."

This will not change the way I drive but I will be avoiding the areas especially Aurora Ave and Fort Hill. I can find other place to shop at so this is really going to hurt is the retail business as it did in Bolingbrook.
D.A.

An absolute disgrace. Fast forward a few years and Naperville has red light cameras at all intersections, most streets are blanketed with surveillance cameras and there are fixed and mobile speed cameras everywhere. Set a speed camera in a van to 55MPH, park it on a bridge over I-88 and watch the revenue flow in. Watch as the cops abandon patrolling the streets, preferring to sit instead in large heated command centers looking at the town on banks of CCTV monitors with the primary aim of raising cash. As soon as they spot you pull up to the curb to drop off a passenger in the wrong place, *click* you get a ticket in the mail. That's justice!

You think it can't happen? This is the reality, today, in Great Britain, where drivers are penalized by thousands of speed, red light and closed circuit TV cameras. (There is an estimated 2,500,000 closed circuit TV cameras in the UK)

Does anybody reading this board genuinely believe there is anybody in government, local or state, who does not believe money is better off in their pocket than in yours?

This is also the start of a slippery slope where the law-abiding majority of people (most of whom are drivers) start to view the police not as guardians and protectors of the city, but as merely the armed wing of the tax collector's office.

This will not change how I drive at all.

I'm also not convinced this is being done for any safety reason, but is being done simply to raise more money for the city. This town will nickel and dime us to death.

T.B.

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