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Sound off on 204 Board boundaries meeting

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Were you at the District 204 school board meeting last night to discuss the new boundaries? Our previous blogs on the issue have been pretty busy but we'd like to hear your impressions of last night's (Tuesday, 2.19) meeting.
What was your view on the public comment period of the meeting and do you think your voice was really heard? What about the board - were they really listening or did the boundary issue seem like a done deal before the meeting even started? And, if for some reason, you couldn't make it to the meeting but wanted to, you can make your voice heard here. Or, maybe you were there but didn't get a chance to speak. Well, you can do that right here as well. These school boundary changes appears to be a critical issue to Naperville as the city moves forward and we here at The Sun - as members of the community - are happy to have the opportunity to host this forum where you can speak your mind on this all-important topic. So, let's get the conversation going.

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Elements of Garden Design It is probably correct to say that many successful garden lay-outs started to take shape on a drawing board. At the beginning-although it will be known what sort of garden is envisaged and some of the features to be included-it is not necessary to formulate any definite ideas on design but better to concentrate first on measuring and recording all the existing features so that an accurate bird's-eye view of the garden can be drawn to scale. There is no other way of seeing the area as a whole and the position of the house satisfactorily. It is from this stage that ideas for the design of the garden and planting plans can be formulated. THE EARLY PLANNING STAGE It is unusual for a plot of land to be exactly rectangular and the sides are often unequal in length. The essential aids at this early stage are a measuring tape, at least 6oft(i8m) in length; a metal spike to secure the end, and a large writing pad. Even without the aid of a surveyor's more elaborate apparatus, a fairly accurate survey can be made to determine the direction of the boundaries and the position of the house relative to these, by taking the measurement from a corner of the house or building in line with the wall to the boundary (Fig.i). If the same process is repeated on the same side from another corner it will show if the boundary is at an angle or parallel to the building.A further check can be made by fixing the tape in one of the far corners of the site and proceeding along the bottom boundary until the wall of the building-which would be seen al right angles-disappears from view. If this measurement is compared with the others made earlier the points on the boundary should touch at the three places. If it is necessary to mark a sight line across a piece of land from one poin to another, it is useful to have available 10 or more 6ft(2m) bamboo canes (see Fig.2). The canes are then spaced, perhaps 8 or ioft(2.5 or 3m) or more apart, over a given distance, and when five or six canes are in position the line is made exactly straight by adjusting the intermediate canes between the two end ones. When a sighting is made from the furthest end, only the nearest cane will then be visible. The position of a tree or other permanen features can be recorded by measuring from the object in question to two points which are separated by a known distance; this could be two corners of the house. The measurements are then transcribed to paper with the use of a compass and the place marked where the arcs cross. Having noted as many details as possible that are likely to be useful, a plan of the area can be drawn to scale. It can usually be assumed that if the design appears to be right on paper it will probably be right on the site. The need to see the garden first in plan form applies particularly if the beds an

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I just had the most eye-opening experience in quite a while by reading these blogs. I have been hearing about all of the comments that have been posted and have finally taken the time to look at them. Many of you have very valid points about transportation issues and the "contaminated" site where the new high school will be built. As a person who is not a resident of the district but somewhat aware of the goings-on, I did not know about the MV site being contaminated. To all of you who have expressed these concerns, KUDOS to you for stating factual information that is a problem.

However, shame on all of you who are taking stabs at each other in a way that is less mature than the behavior of most of your children. It's no wonder why the school board makes decisions without asking your opinion. I can hardly believe that some of you have been so mature as to point out spelling errors in other blog entries. Is spelling really an issue here? Also, to all of you who seem to think that WV is such a horrible school (I think I even read someone calling it the ghetto)...the same curriculum gets taught at both high schools. Both schools are filled with highly qualified teachers who work their a@%es off each day to educate your children to ensure they can have an opportunity to go on to higher education and eventually a career.

I recall someone referring to Joliet as the place where we send all of your prisoners (or something to that affect). As a product of the Joliet area and its high schools, I can say that I managed to get an excellent education, graduate high school and graduate school with no problem. That despite recurring gang and drug problems all around. It's not about the school or some of the clientele, its a matter of the choices made by the student as to what they want to become. Those choices are made based on how they are raised by their parents. It doesn't make a bit of difference if it is at NV, WV, or Crane High School on the west side of Chicago that has seen recent violence. Anyone from anywhere can get a good education if they want it bad enough.

Unfortunately, as they saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Based on the comments here, the apples falling from these trees will end up being whining babies who think that money is going to buy them happiness and a good life.

CFO disbanded long ago. NSFOC is a newly organized effort from south Naperville. Don't see the connection, folks, except for the fact they started touting the same enrollment data CFO propagated. That does not mean there is a conspiratorial "connection." Pleezzz! This is propoganda once again at its finest. Try putting your energies into writing a dramatic conspiractorial fiction novel to make the day more exciting. Who knows, maybe you'll even earn a couple bucks.

There is an interesting counter site being passed around today:
www.nsfocfraud.com

>>"The traffic patterns I observe around here..."

This is the same scientific method the district used to project future enrollment which turned out to be all wrong.
We are going to base decisions on what Dr. D thinks based on what he sees on some random mornings?

We have almost 85 highly paid administrators at 204 earning an average salary of $98,000 a year but what is clear is that in some cases we need independent professionals to give us unbiased fact based information.

And, I don't mean some company that specializes in "data manipulation" to help the school district pass its next referendum.

At the pta meeting at NVHS superintendant Stephen Daeschner spoke about horrible commuting times especially if you are traveling north!?!!! Then why are we building a school at the very northern edge of our district where most will have to travel north through commuter traffic to attend?????

You may view the full story at dailyherald.com but here is the excerpt

"The traffic patterns I observe around here are pretty ugly between 6:30 to 7 or 8 a.m., especially if you're heading north," he said to a room full of nodding heads. "You can basically eliminate your high schoolers from that traffic pattern if you start later. Think about it."

The loss of the BB site is indeed a tough loss. This site was the most centralized of all considered. The north site is a definite compromise when compared to BB. I only wish the vision and insight of the superintendent that was displayed at the neuqua pta meeting, would have been more apparent at the boundary meeting. I want to note any opinions voiced here are mine and mine alone(I represent no one else in this district or subdivision). I would like to convey a summary of what my sons college recruiting adm. (Bradley Univ.)had to say about our area schools. We at Bradley actively recruit from both the 203 & 204 Illinois school districts because these students are prepared and successful at our college. With the addition of a new middle school and high school I hope our district will continue to excel at what was started many years ago: "Strive to prepare our students with the best education possible".

anonymous 7:08pm

I admire how you stick to the issues and don't take unnecessary jabs at people. Thank you for keeping decorum and setting such a fine example for all of us on this blog. Naperville is a better place because of you.

Boo Hoo!!! We didn't get what we want so we go crying to mommy and stomp our feet. And now mommy will sue the SB and anyone else in her way.

Grow up people. You are making the rest of the citizens in this town look as selfish and petty as you. I'm embarassed to admit you people are my neighbors.

Is anyone reviewing their comments before they post them?

What happened to debating actual information?

Yes, you are right anonymous 3:09. There are very rural areas left in this great country of ours where children do ride on a school bus for a long length of time. They bought houses out in the country miles from a school because they like to live out in the country.

We are talking about homes that are closer to another school that are redistricted to a further away school.

Just trying to bring you back up to speed.

Anonymous 2:38 PM

Sew? Who sews because their coffee is too hot? Did you mean sue?

Spelling is important.

Why in the world does anyone think that they have grounds for a law suit. Do you know that many SD out there split up schools and have done it for years. Guess what, all those kids adjust fine. Do you know that kids all over this country travel on a bus to/from school a lot longer than the 204 students do. So please for the love of God tell me why 204 parents think they are special and therefore their children are more special than half of the population out there. This situation is not unique to 204 so get a life and move on. Your time is more valuable doing something that really matters in this world.

I would love to see the judges face on this one.


Only in America can we sew because we don't like the outcome of soemthing. This is what happens when people have to much time and money on their hands. They hire lawyers to fight their battles only for the lawyers to make money. So tell all your kids to do well in school and attend law school. Then they can waste time and money of all taxpayers because their is always someone out there who won't be happy with a decision and because our troops are fighting for our freedom their will always be someone out there to sew somebody else. The same kind of people who sew because their coffee was to hot.

This law suit says nothing but how stubborn and selsfish of a community we live in. And YES my kids will be incovenienced and split from friends. Better to learn about disappointment now then when you are out on your own. It's a fact of life. Learn it now and be all the stronger for it as an adult.

Yes I agree that the majority of this district is happy with the new site and boundaries. You few, who are speaking the loudest, may wish that not to be true, but it is. We are looking forward to our children having a less crowded ACADEMIC as well as extracurricular and social environment (believe me, this is not just about wanting our kids to make a team!)

You name the northern neighborhoods are being the only ones in favor of this current MVHS plan (i.e. Brookdale, Longwood, Stonebridge, Harris Farm, Cambridge Chase) but the MAJORITY of those of us in the south east of 59 are also very much in favor (i.e. River Run, Ashbury, Breckenridge, Stillwater, Burnham Point); and then there's Oakhurst who is happy as well.

We all agree that NO PLAN WILL MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY. Move the site and boundaries and a different four neighborhoods will be up in arms. This district needs a third high school plain and simple! Do you really want your kids attending classes in trailers; eating lunch at 8 a.m.; sharing lockers with 3 others?? The majority, yes majority, is looking forward to a MVHS ground breaking soon!!

Thank you my school is where? I really do feel your pain.

I am even still amazed some people's only comments are "maybe they will be consoled by smaller numbers of students in their new schools". Why are these people only concerned about their kids extracurricular activities? Why are they only concerned about the number of children (competition)? Where is the concern for thier kids actual education?

Parents who are affected by the new boundaries are concerned about the commuting times affecting thier families daily lives. That I feel has more weight than other people crying about their children being able to participate in a sport or pom squad.

Let's all examine the numbers and see what we really do need for all the families in District 204.

Uncle buck states that New Trier's enrollment is 2350, that is wrong. New Trier's enrollment was 4,150 for the 2006-2007 school year.

http://www.newtrier.k12.il.us/records/enrollment.htm

There is no data to support that school size or the newness of a school has any bearing on student achievement.

District 204's 3rd HS will never be needed due to the maturing community, declining elementary school enrollment and use of Frontier campus.

Just look at all the districts east of us who are all experiencing declining enrollment.
Now, look at more facts on city-data and see for yourself.

Here is the link to Naperville, numbers for Aurora are the same, dropping....

http://www.city-data.com/city/Naperville-Illinois.html
and see the trends for themselves.

Naperville Single-family new house construction building permits:
1996: 1631 buildings, average cost: $147,000
1997: 1406 buildings, average cost: $155,200
1998: 1565 buildings, average cost: $180,800
1999: 1152 buildings, average cost: $172,100
2000: 1107 buildings, average cost: $168,500
2001: 764 buildings, average cost: $216,900
2002: 671 buildings, average cost: $235,300
2003: 614 buildings, average cost: $264,800
2004: 481 buildings, average cost: $351,700
2005: 407 buildings, average cost: $427,700
2006: 364 buildings, average cost: $437,700

The 3rd HS will never be needed.

An email is circulating about a meeting tonight at the White Eagle Clubhouse.

The website is http://www.nsfoc.org/.

The first rally is on Tuesday 3/4/08 at 7 PM, at White Eagle Club House, 4265 White Eagle Drive (take Route 59, turn west on 83rd street/Montgomery and left at first entrance by the pool - suggested way) Attorney Shawn Collins will attend.

For all those who want to stop the SD, visit - www.nsfoc.org

TG | March 1, 2008 06:59 PM wote:

"There are Plainfield subdivisions across the street from the brand new Plainfield North high school that are going to NVHS who I am sure would not mind going there."

Plainfield North is NOT right across the street, and if I wanted Plainfield schools I would have bought a house in the Plainfield School district (and saved a bunch of $$$)!

I agree the boundaries are less than optimal...

I was expecting them to take this opportunity to redo all the boundaries (ES to HS), instead they took the easy way out.

If you find yourself on your 3rd paragraph (previous entry), ya might what to hit preview and edit. By the way, "my shcool is where?" ...."shcool" is spelled s-c-h-o-o-l...(dud-de-dah)

When you have something to say except ' sit down and shut up' maybe I will listen. Did you feel the same way when the BB scenario was in place ? Likey not -- it appears we are not in the 'no spin' zone are we.

remember there is still at least 18 months before that school will open, many things can still change and I would hate to read your diatribe if something did not go your way.

Thanks for taking the time to check for spelling, I would never have known that otherwise - I only hope to be as smart as you some day.


for Jim Jandick -- thanks for having the intelligence to focus on the message and understand that for these central areas this is forever. I am a 20 year + resident here - likely more than most posters - and forever is a long time.

For TG -- no TG is definitely not the only area upset

Taking that into consideration, why would these students qualify for a bus ride to MV? Please explain the logic.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 1, 2008 05:52 PM

Did you also understand that the McCarty and Steck non-walker areas have a very, very small high school population as compared to other areas? These areas would be a drop in a bucket, certainly not the numbers needed to help fill a 3000 student high school. Surely the SB took these factors into consideration and support their basis for leaving them out of the boundary picture.


Yes I have added the numbers and do you know what the high school population of Watts is ? Of the main school - not he staellite locations at Lehigh Station, and now also from Longwood. Tell me what sense those areas have attending Watts- why wasn't that fixed when the SB was considering boundaires instead of adding to it? I feel bad for the 30 new kids to Watts who will spend the first 6 years of their 204 eduation on a bus to a school over 5 miles from their home. So yes I have all the numbers you want and more...

Also know a lot of people from the Steck area who wrote the SB to move to MV - why were they not addressed either. As far as what qualifies them for a trip thee- they are half the distance we are-- what qualifies us is the better question

Steck and McCarty are closer schools to MV and would be cheaper to bus there than COWL/Watts to MV.

Steck and McCarty also have busers so they are already on a bus to begin with. Whether or not they opt to not ride it and walk is irrelevant because they qualify for bus service and the district gets money from the state for that.

I can understand someone asking why that was not considered. I can also understand why someone would point to the SB members in those areas as to a possible reason why that was never entertained or out on the table during the boundary discussions. This is why people point to it and say someone was 'protecting their own'. Call it fair or not, that's what people are saying because that is what it looks like.

Has anyone seen the actual Phase 1 and Phase 2 data yet? Has the Admin finally gotten the results in their hands to post it on their website like they said they would? Seems odd to be making decisions involving an awful lot of money without that information.

The boundaries don't make sense. Every time I pull out of my subdivision, and yes, pass NVHS I just shake my head that my kids won't go there. In a perfect world, the school district which made sense when this was all farm land would re-district along town lines. But no one wants to tackle the complications of re-allocation of tax dollars...which doesn't seem so complicated to me. There are Plainfield subdivisions across the street from the brand new Plainfield North high school that are going to NVHS who I am sure would not mind going there. Heck I live minutes from it, and I'd be glad to have my kids bike to that school rather than a 33 minute Laidlaw defined bus route to WVHS. Life would be less complicated and my gas bill much lower.

To "My School is Where?"
Finally someone from Watts speaks up! This is not just a TG rant!

Steck and McCarty are happy because they have a SB member who lives in their area and they getto stay @ WVHS. Ask them if they want to have their non-walkers ( the vast majority of kids in those areas go to MV )
Posted by: My shcool is where ??? | March 1, 2008 10:26 AM

My School is where ???, do you have enough data to make this accusation? Why would Steck and McCarty non-walkers want to go to MV when they can and do walk. For instance did you know that the "non-walkers" at Steck and McCarty can walk to WV gold campus and WV main if they so choose? Did you know that some of these "non-walkers" at McCarty for example can and do walk to Still middle school and the WV freshman campus AND WV green campus? Did you know Steck non-walkers live directly west of WVHS main can and do walk to WV gold and WV main? Steck "walkers" will also be able to walk to and from their homes to the converted freshman campus if they so choose. They can and do walk to WV green.

Taking that into consideration, why would these students qualify for a bus ride to MV? Please explain the logic.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 1, 2008 05:52 PM

Did you also understand that the McCarty and Steck non-walker areas have a very, very small high school population as compared to other areas? These areas would be a drop in a bucket, certainly not the numbers needed to help fill a 3000 student high school. Surely the SB took these factors into consideration and support their basis for leaving them out of the boundary picture.

Steck and McCarty are happy because they have a SB member who lives in their area and they getto stay @ WVHS. Ask them if they want to have their non-walkers ( the vast majority of kids in those areas go to MV )
Posted by: My shcool is where ??? | March 1, 2008 10:26 AM

My School is where ???, do you have enough data to make this accusation? Why would Steck and McCarty non-walkers want to go to MV when they can and do walk. For instance did you know that the "non-walkers" at Steck and McCarty can walk to WV gold campus and WV main if they so choose? Did you know that some of these "non-walkers" at McCarty for example can and do walk to Still middle school and the WV freshman campus AND WV green campus? Did you know Steck non-walkers live directly west of WVHS main can and do walk to WV gold and WV main? Steck "walkers" will also be able to walk to and from their homes to the converted freshman campus if they so choose. They can and do walk to WV green.

Taking that into consideration, why would these students qualify for a bus ride to MV? Please explain the logic.

Come on Bill take it easy on "my school is where". If you take a good look at the three elementary schools in the central area, these parents will be the ones taking up the high travel times for many other 204 district families which are less affected. I only hope that a high school that is less populated, thus able to offer more student opportunities will be able to offset the obvious longer travel times these parents will endure.

Let's keep the comments "pithy" and concise people. I'm tired of reading your emotional rants & diatribes. If you've got something new and/or factual, spit it out, let's hear it...and exit stage right.

If you find yourself on your 3rd paragraph (previous entry), ya might what to hit preview and edit. By the way, "my shcool is where?" ...."shcool" is spelled s-c-h-o-o-l...(dud-de-dah)

Also let me clarify on the SB member areas going to closest HS, while others travel to the furthest. I do not believe there was any Oliver Stone type conspiracy on this. What I do believe however it that they understand their areas issues and commutes and do not have that level of understanding of the other areas, allowing them to speak and balance those issues much better. Owen East got moved to WVHS because in their view it HAD to be done, yet the entire ES 2 minutes north of there and the one just west of that didn't even get a courtesy look see. Why? Not having someone in the planning process that understands your area is a detriment, no matter how one slices it.

^^^

All that being said, yes we understand why residents from those 4 areas are happy, they have a HS close to their home, congratulations, seriously. I get it. Heck some now have walking ES and walking MS and the closest HS - jackpot ! But at least try and be gracious 'winners' and not try and sell those of us who still have horrid MS and HS commutes a load of hooey that 75% of the district is behind it, that is pure fantasy. 15% of the district likes it a lot, another xx % just wanted a HS, but 10-15 % votes no on any school referendum ( or any tax increase period), and at least 25% of the district is ticked off.( that would be the other half being asked to travel to MV and those who wanted to be elsewhere and are now at WVHS. The remainder is just glad it's not them being asked to travel those distances.

What I don't understand is that we add a 3rd HS for an ungodly sum of money and we fix 1 item - space. Commute as still horrid, just different people and moreof them, and the balance of HS school scores still out of balance, and the divisions that exist in our district now even deeper. I know there would be no perfect solution, but this seems to fall very far short.

I want to ask anonymouswhat dictionary they get their definition of 'majority' from ?

The majority are happy -are you kidding me ? Aside from Brookdale/ Brooke /Longwood & Young -nameme one ES ofthe other 21 that is happy ? Unless you count the fact they arehappy they aren't going there. Steck and McCarty are happy because they have a SB member who lives in their area and they getto stay @ WVHS. Ask them if they want to have their non-walkers ( the vast majority of kids in those areas go to MV ). Is anyone in the south 'happy' - NO- they are just glad they are uninvolved in the fracas. And sure as heck you can't mean Owen West / Watts & Cowlishaw - who drew the proverbila short straw and now travel to the 3rdclosest high school to their homes. Yeah, that is fairand they are jumping for joy. The Laidlaw times on the scatter map are bogus - even if they double the number of busses- and at the end of he dayour areas are NO closer to this site. 1 hour - 1.5 hours on a bus is what we bought for $150M and you wonder why we're hacked off ? Oh and btw - Watts and Cowlishaw also travel to the 3rd closest MS as well -- so we learn bus travel at an early age here. Yet we hear whining from the self proclaimed red headed step children who have an ES and MS in walking distance...
Why is it that every area with a SB member or SD member ended up at the 1st closest HS to their home ? Coincidence ?

Tell me how parents from Watts and Cowlishaw are going to participate in activities at the school when some games start at 4:30 and volunteers need to be there. We were less than 10 minutes from Waubonsie -. And spare me the GPSmiles calcs - it is the traffic not the mileage. Most people in Colishaw or Watts had 3 - 5 stoplights between them and Waubonsie - not they have triple that, and 3 moremajor streets to cross. OH ANY BTW _ WAUBSONSIE NOT EVEN OUR CLOSEST HS _ NV IS. We work for a living also and at that time we are looking at 40 minute plus commutes in rush hour - I know - we've been driving prospective paths for the last 30 days now. So effectively weare nowlocked out - great.
You wanted a northern HS- you got a northern high school - the problem is the entire central area got hosed to make that happen. There areonly 4 ES's in the area to fill a school that needs 7-8. Yeah, that makes great sense.
And then give the heave ho to Cowlishaw and Watts from WVHS - because we needed to be replaced with ES's with bigger checkbooks to form the NEW WVHS. Let's throw money at the perception that is being perpetuated by comments from our leaders. There is nothing wrong with WVHS - it is a great school.

(NOTE to Jim from blog: there are plenty of areas in Naperville - Watts and Cowlishaw to name a few who are distraut at leaving WVHS - not everyone here wants to go to NV as your article suggests.)

so before you start quoting great majorities - tell me who else supports this. Tell me who else would want to take the place of Owens West / Watts / Cowlishaw to travel there - the answer is no one. We were supposed to fix any commute issues - all we did was give them to someone else - we fixed NOTHING. And the 3 highest voting areas ( WE / FRY / WATTS ) - end up with the most change.
Ask the SB why they don't want to put a referendum out there for anything right now - including A/C -- the answer is because it won't pass today. So there is a majority out there - but is it NOT in support of the site or boundaries, no matter how you spin it.

To curious,

Thank you for your words, I completely agree with you as does 80% of the district according to the sun poll. There are a lot of families not happy with decisions the sb have made in the last few years.

We all think many comments made on this blog have been emotional and not contained any content pertaining to the real debate at hand. Don't let a few misdirected confuse the issues.

Let me be upfront and honest; I voted against your referendum because I'm cheap, old and rich....(acquired in that order). My kids are out of high school and again, to be brutally honest, I really don't care about yours. They will receive a decent education at either school. The bigger issue and concern for parents should be the fact the USA ranks about 17th out of 32 comparative nations worldwide in education, in an ever growing global economy. Good article in TIME magazine this week on the topic.

Make no mistake, the 3rd high school is coming and is needed. Whether the total district enrollment is 7800, 8800, 9200 or 10,000....according to most research, the ideal size for a HS is approx 2500 kids. Let me give you a few examples of top performing academic schools in the state and their enrollments:
Hinsdale Central (2600), New Trier (2350), Naperville North (3100)

to: Curious

"Rantings"? Are you serious?

If you want rantings, read some of the Dr Y stuff.

Holy Cow!

Wake up! We have a new high school site for Matea, we have boundaries drawn, we have chosen a mascot and school colors, and we recently have hired one of the most respected principals in the state to run that third high school. Whether you like it or not, this is a done deal....and the majority of the district is thrilled!!!! You're wasting your time folks!

To: this is SUCH a high-minded debate

Thank you for your words, I completely agree with you as does 75% of the district. The vote was taking 2 years ago and stated just that "do you support a referrendum to build a 3rd HS". What we have are 10-25% unhappy residents (at best) that are trying to raise and throw every possible motive or theory for not building the 3rd HS or not building it where they plan to. 1/2 the issues were brought up 2 years ago and didn't stick then, and the other 1/2 aren't sticking now.

i made a substantial contribution to the vote yes campaign. I put my money where my mouth is. i am willing to pay whatever it takes to get the best quality education for my children. I believe that this is in the best interests of myself, my children, my neighborhood, my town, and our society. that is not what i call an "entitlement" attitude.

----

Again, you lost me right off the bat. You paid "a substantial contribution" to get what you feel you deserve and you don't think telling everyone this appears that you feel entitled. I see a lot of I's and me's in your rantings again.

Sorry you feel so slighted by other people discussing facts and their feelings or point of views. Perhaps this is not the forum for you, but I am happy to discuss your feelings about what you paid for in the best interest of your particular family so they get the education you feel they deserve.

It is important for everyone to feel their children are receiving the best available education in the best school district. This is what made Naperville what it is today. The town grew from a small grocery store (CeeBee's), a fire station, Oswald's Pharmacy (behind which the first official Last Fling took place in the parking lot) and other small businesses to what it is today because the schools were so great. I am happy to continue this tradition with you, we can make this an even better place to live.

oooohhh curious......soooo sad.

You have not understood my meaning at all i am afraid. i take the blame for that. for not being clear.

i made a substantial contribution to the vote yes campaign. I put my money where my mouth is. i am willing to pay whatever it takes to get the best quality education for my children. I believe that this is in the best interests of myself, my children, my neighborhood, my town, and our society. that is not what i call an "entitlement" attitude.

i believe is that there are many people on this blog who think that someone is trying to 'cheat' them out of something. out of their money. out of their 'right' to go to a certain school. they believe somebody is getting something that they aren't and they are fed up with it.

i do not believe that anybody is 'doing me out of' anything. i believe that some people make more money than i do. and live in bigger houses. and have shorter travel times to their school. i also believe that some have less money, smaller houses, and longer travel times.

I believe that the administration and the school board are trying to make the best decisions possible with the information they have. In particular of the school board, I believe that they already ARE a group of citizens who were elected by us to look out for our best interests. I do NOT believe in conspiracies.

i believe that i value a quality education for my children and that I am willing to pay for it. I believe that if that means I must live in a smaller house, drive an older car, or take fewer vacations, i will do that. None of this is what I call an entitlement attitude.

I also believe that once we have a problem with overcrowding, it will be too late to do anything about it in the short term that will be AS EFFECTIVE as doing something about it now. If the overcrowding happens when my children are in that school, I will be very dissappointed. I do not understand why others do not seem to feel the same way.

I am not certain that this overcrowding will come to pass. but i know that the people i elected to look out for my best interests believe that it will. I see no rational reason for them to lie to me.

And i consider the impact of them (and me) being wrong -- that the overcrowding will not occur. if they are wrong and i build a new school, then i will have spent some money I didnt have to. And I will drive an older car, or miss a vacation.

If they (and me) are right -- overcrowding will occur. and if i do NOT build a new school, then i believe my childs education will suffer. how much it will suffer, i do not know. but i believe it will suffer. and that is not a risk i want to take.

i do not understand why others, who profess to be so concerned about their children's education, do not feel the same way. So i come to the the only logical conclusion i can imagine - which is that they dont care.

I put my money where my mouth was -- I donated to the vote yes campaign and i am willing to pay higher taxes to support what I believe. So I am asking the "vote no" group to do the same.

how certain are you that we do not need a new school ? So certain that you would have your children take on the consequences of your decision ? So certain that you would say to your children 'i am willing to risk you going to school in trailers and not being involved in extracurriculars so that i do not have to pay for anything better ?'

I am willing to take on the consequences of my decision. Are you?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 28, 2008 02:16 PM

This is the second time you have misspelled BOARING. A boar is a pig or hog. I think you mean BORING and that's your opinion. IMO if you're bored with the conversation, you have the option of staying out of it and ignoring this blog altogether. Allow those that wish to converse with each other do so here in a public forum. I doubt will miss your rude antics. No disrepect intended just be respectful yourself please. Nothing to stop you from creating your own blog.

This thread is BOARING. Time to move on people. It's been how many weeks hashing out the same old thing and getting absolutely no where. Kind of like the scene in Poltergeist.

To "this is SUCH a high-minded debate"

The "utmost importance of opening 2009" is that those in favor of the new school (a majority of voters in 2005) believe that we will be beyond capacity by then.

I can have assurances from all those voting "no" and arguing for delay on the new school will agree to have their kids take all impacts from overcrowding. They will have their kids take classes in trailers, not my kids. They will agree to have their kids not participate in extracuriculars so that there will be more room for mine. I want my kid's high school to operated exactly as it would with the smaller number of students provided by the third school. If there are any negative impacts, your kids will take the pain.

-------------


To answer your point, 2009 is only one year away. I think we can safely look at all the 8th grades across the district and have a pretty clear picture of enrollment. That means we cannot be "way beyond" capacity by then (a few months from now, fall of 2009).

As to the rest of your comments (honest feelings that I won't belittle at your expense)you don't seemed concerned about anyone except your own family. That's very natural and sounds similar to many comments already made on this board by many other people. Everyone wants the best for their family.

However, my children already are taking classes in trailers at Scullen middle school. This school is and has been overcapacity for some time. It will continue to work as the same as with the new boundaries will still be the largest middle school in the district. No big deal. I volunteer there on a almost daily basis and see no problems or issues with overcrowding. The children are actually great.

I wonder how happy you really will be. The school board will have only removed 600 kids from NVHS in 2009 if all of this goes through. That doesn't sound like a lot of your percieved competition will be gone.

Oh and by the way your statements sound very "entitled", I wonder if you've used this blog to call names and threaten vandalism? I sincerely hope not. That doesn't feel good does it? Someone catagorizing you and making broad statements about you without even knowing anything about you.

Please re-read your earlier statements with a clear mind. Pay notice to me and my especially when you get to my kid's high school. This all really does not need to get so personal. People can work together to make something great that everyone can enjoy. I remember doing just that when I laid bricks on a hot summer day at a place that became the riverwalk.

For a good synopsis of the Open Meetings Act as it applies to school boards, please see: http://www.iasb.com/law/schboardmeetings.pdf.

Some good stuff in there about the size of meeting halls. ;)

M2 technically could say the board solicited 'public comment' via the web and through letters home to students and the SB can adjourn a meeting at any time. There are as many loopholes in the law as there are lawyers.

to: Curious

The "utmost importance of opening 2009" is that those in favor of the new school (a majority of voters in 2005) believe that we will be beyond capacity by then.

But if the folks who do not want a new school or who are advocating delay are so certain of their numbers, why were there NO responses to my earlier note? (Not even snotty or abusive ones?)

------------------------------------------------------

I am in favor of the new school. I am one of those members of the conspiracy. I contributed to the Vote Yes campaign. But as a supreme sacrifice, for the good of the community...I will get in the front of the line trying to PREVENT the new school IF....

I can have assurances from all those voting "no" and arguing for delay on the new school will agree to have their kids take all impacts from overcrowding. They will have their kids take classes in trailers, not my kids. They will agree to have their kids not participate in extracuriculars so that there will be more room for mine. I want my kid's high school to operated exactly as it would with the smaller number of students provided by the third school. If there are any negative impacts, your kids will take the pain.

Deal ?

To Vermont:

You are misinformed.

The board must hold boundary discussions in public and they must take public comment on the issues discussed.

So MM was blowing hot air when he claimed he could shut the meeting down.

And I don't know how you can be so sure that a legal challenge has not basis. Your information does not match mine.

I agree. Thank you anonymous. Why the utmost importance of opening 2009? Let's stop and review all of this before making any more mistakes.

Posted by: curious | February 28, 2008 08:43 AM

Curious, you want my honest opinion? I think the rush is on because as another year of data comes to light, it becomes more and more obvious there is no need. The kids aren't coming, student growth is stable with declines and we will never reach 10,200-10,400. Closing WVHS freshman campus creates a need by removing that many seats for high school use. I support stopping this runaway train but we may be in the minority around here.

A hearty thank you to Laura Smith for much of the data I was looking for. You have really done some great work in helping me understand this issue. Am I correct then in assuming based on this data that by 2015 dist. 204 will have approx. 10000 high school students and 7700 middle school students. Again thank you for the data.

Posted by: Jim Jandick Ashbury Subdivision | February 28, 2008 07:46 AM

Jim: No, in fact quite the opposite. The projections made to pass the referendum were inflated and the assumptions did not come to bear. The formula and calculations were flawed. The district did not take the maturation of the district into consideration whatsoever. Today's administration does not believe we will hit 10000 students. They made it very clear this year decisions are being based just on what we have in the system today. Declines are being seen at the elementary level for the past two years.

What you can I believe you can be sure is that we hit the middle school peak this year and will drop off years to follow and we will hit our high school enrollment peak in 2011-12 at about 9200. Comparing actual numbers with projected numbers used during the referendum campaign, we are significantly below those student projections.

>Does the need to open the new high school by 2009 trump using reasonable due diligence?
Answer: IMHO, absolutely not. I'm sure there are some that believe it is imperative to get it opened by then but based on the current enrollment numbers being used, you simply leave WV freshman campus open so there doesn't seem to be an impending need for additional middle school space and call it a day.

-----

I agree. Thank you anonymous. Why the utmost importance of opening 2009? Let's stop and review all of this before making any more mistakes.

A hearty thank you to Laura Smith for much of the data I was looking for. You have really done some great work in helping me understand this issue. Am I correct then in assuming based on this data that by 2015 dist. 204 will have approx. 10000 high school students and 7700 middle school students. Again thank you for the data.

to Anonymous February 27, 2008 4:40 PM:

Here's my thoughts to some of your questions for what it's worth.

>Why is the alternate site 6-8 miles from center of population growth?
Answer: The board seeks 80 acres to build the high school. Not too many parcels left in the district meeting that criteria. I also think there is a slight misconception about the population growth. Students in this district are highly concentrated in and around the immediate vicinity of WV as well as NV. BTW the word on the street is the 2/3 of the population is south of 75th street. Although 75th St ends at Ogden Avenue, if you look at a street map and continue to draw a line straigh west from the point where 75th Street ends at Ogden, guess what? WVHS is South of 75th Street. See for yourself. http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/IPSDBoundaryMapPacket.pdf

>Shouldn't we expect bus travel times to drop by at least 1/3?
Answer: If you watch the video of the 2/19/08 meeting, this was addressed. Laidlaw recently did those runs during the appropriate times of day so if you believe that, the times should bear some accuracy. Admin also indicated that the length of time depends on number of stops on the route. I've lived here for several years and believe if a route is not working or keeping under the maximum time requirements, adjustments will be made in a route. These issues are quickly addressed during the first 2-3 weeks of school.

>Why did we choose a site that was rejected by the SB two years ago due to "the certainty of environmental dangers?"
Answer: I personally have never given much weight to that document. Who wrote it and why? Did you ever see anything substantial supporting its data? I didn't. No data, no believe everything. MM authored the document. I took it for what it was worth at face value (nothing) and chalked it off a support paper for one and only one prime objective, BB. It's politics, folks. That simple. Not the first example either.

>Does the fact that a new school in your backyard increase your property value?
ANSWER: A call to your tax assessor's office should get that answer. Haven't done that yet. What I always understood was that the quality of the school district as a whole influences your property value and salability and possibly even the distance you are to a school, NOT WHICH SCHOOL in a district you were closest to. I also understand that close proximity to amenities increase your property value--train stations, etc. That needs to be confirmed by assessor.

>Why were negotiations cut off for BB land despite penalties that could be imposed of $10-20 million?
ANSWER: It never sounded to me that there ever really was any true negotiations or even close to a meeting of the minds, which is why the condemnation case number 2 was filed. Case number 1 was filed for the BB 25 acres in 2001.

And it's not such a slam dunk for BB to obtain fees and penalties. These issues will have to be adjudicated (proof has to be delivered to the court to substantiate attorneys fees and costs as well as any claims of damage to the remainder). I hope our legal team can do a better job with this aspect of the case than what we've seen in their legal performance to date.

>Why did the district rule out Macom so quickly?
Answer: They said that Macom was not clear and free of issues and there were other parties involved to negotiate with as well. No guarantee these issues would be resolved or other parties would be interested in negotiations. This introduced an additional time factor for the SB which would further delay the opening of a high school beyond 2009. The SB seems to at least want to amek one representation come true--an opening of some kind for MV by 2009.

>How many appraisals were obtained for EOLA land?
Answer: Unknown

>Does the need to open the new high school by 2009 trump using reasonable due diligence?
Answer: IMHO, absolutely not. I'm sure there are some that believe it is imperative to get it opened by then but based on the current enrollment numbers being used, you simply leave WV freshman campus open so there doesn't seem to be an impending need for additional middle school space and call it a day.

Hope this meets your criteria for an intelligent response.


Please some one help me with the grade school population.I am not "the sharpest tool in the shed" but the numbers seem crystal clear to me.
I used the 21 grade school population at present approx.13300 kids x
a factor of .66 (4 grades in high school at a time) and get a sum of 8778 kids. I used a projection of approx. 400 kids for our newest grade school (peterson). I figured peterson will build out w/in the next 5-7 years to around 800 kids. Those families in that school will have both middle schoolers and high schoolers which would bring the high school numbers even higher. I guess what I am asking for is some hard data maybe the Sun can help.

Posted by: Jim Jandick Ashbury Subdivision | February 27, 2008 01:37 PM

Jim, I'd like to help you with this so here goes. This link is to the projections used by the district in 2005 for the doom and gloom student growth (the kids are coming, the kids are coming) and we needed space tomorrow. http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_5768_1.pdf (4 pages 2005 referendum growth models)

If you compare this 2005 information with today's 9/30/07 enrollment numbers (these are the "official numbers" filed with the state year to year), you will find, using just the current no growth numbers alone we fall short approx. -1137 MS and HS students. Obviously this number becomes even greater when applying the projected growth shown in the other two models.
http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_17332_1.pdf (see page 3 of 28; administrative presentation 1/22/08; this slides shows anticipated high school enrollment using 11/30/07 enrollment figures) The administration made it clear there were basing future decision on current numbers only (video to meeting on website)
http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf (9/30/07 enrollment stats)

Below is an excerpt on enrollment predictions. As you can see, the district was certain we would have 10,200-10,500 students by 2015.

ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS http://www.ipsd.org/newsevents/news_item_detail.asp?id=5768&SchoolID=Cowlishaw (this also provides basis for assumptions used to project etc; sure makes interesting read to compare things said then to what is now)
Enrollment projections are the basis of determining how much space we need for our high school and middle school students as we approach build out. Build out is generally defined as the time when construction is finished at all major subdivisions and housing developments in the district. Very few parcels of vacant land remain in the district. We know the development plans for 75% of the remaining parcels, which increases our certainty of how many students will be coming from new construction.

The information below provides you with what we predict will happen over the next 10 years and the assumptions that serve as the foundation for our projections. The projections provide a range of student enrollment at both the high school and middle school levels. We are very confident enrollment will fall within that range over the next 10 years. We are VERY CERTAIN that by 2015, high school enrollment will total between 10,200 students and 10,500 students, and middle school enrollment will be between 7,700 students and 8,000 students.

Just last month, the district has reason to believe the following numbers will represent their high school enrollmlent through 2011-12:

2008 HS Projections
2007-8 2008-9 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
8147 8665 8969 9183 9254

2005-06 HS Referendum Projections
Projections - No Growth Model
2007-8 2008-9 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
8536 8873 8965 9071 9104

2005-06 HS Referendum Projections
Projections - Model #1 Projection of 4000 students
2007-8 2008-9 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
8656 9113 9365 9631 9824 (2015 total: 10468)

2005-06 HS Referendum Projections
Projections - Model #2 Projection of 3000 students
2007-8 2008-9 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
8626 9053 9265 9491 9644 (2015 total: 10128)

Using Model 1 projections as compared to current data being supported by the district, the following indicates the shortfall that occurs (Number represents difference between 2005 projections and 2008 data)
2007-8 2008-9 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
-120 -240 -400 -560 -720

Over time, the total shortfall between actual v. projections=
-2,040 HS students


I do believe those who want to rush ahead may have something to gain with the boundaries. Those who say "it was voted upon and it was yes last year" are not respecting that circumstances have changed and do warrant re-evaluation of enrollment and site selection.

You need to take your questions to the next SB meeting and ask them. They are the only ones who can answer your questions. The rest of us could assume why but you know what happens when you "assume".

In case you haven't been paying attention the conspiracy notion has been raised many times. To the effect that people are pointing the finger at our concerned and elected SB members that they are making their decisions purely on personal reasons and for personal benefit. Bringing up salaries is just another attempt to discredit our SB, the administrators and the teachers and to be honest it is disgusting. I don't go asking everyone on this site what their household income is and discredit them for their opinion if they don't make a certain amount because they aren't as valid as the next person. Disgusting.

As far as making your mind up if you haven't already a vote was taken 2 years ago and the district voted for a 3rd high school. Regardless of the boundaries regardless of the site the decision has been made. So the bloggers can keep bringing up their unhappiness and their displeasure on how they have to travel farther, how they have to cross railroad tracks, how thier poor children won't be able to see their friends any more because apparently going to a different school makes a difference. The bottom line is the IPSD, families and district realized the need for a 3rd high school and it will be built. End of discussion. Any other questions?

---

Again, I never said anything about a conspiracy theory or even hinted at one. I would not read a lot of people's blogs and assume everyone participating has the same opinions or theories. I really am confused. I completely agree salaries have nothing to do with anything. That is why I posted "Oh yeah, I'm not sure I understand why everyone's salaries are relevent to the possible construction of a third high school. Can someone remind me?" on 2/27.

Do you have an actual point to my original questions you responded to? It is much easier to have an intelligent conversation that way. If you scroll back you will see I asked questions regarding Jim J's numbers and immediately after that was the post about how salaries have nothing to do with the discussion. I just see a lot of facts that don't make any sense and I'm asking questions. Thanks for your comments.

Has anyone posed the question on how much the penalty on BB will be or when will the amount be decided to the school board? You can do this to the address board-members@ipsd.org.

The few questions I emailed received a short answer. Some of it correct, some of it inflated. I do have to say at least they answered me.

I feel a lot of your issues you raise (anonymous 4:40pm 2/27)are very good questions and do deserve to be answered (even though some people do not want these questions asked). I for one would love to get answers to most of the questions.

I don't understand the rush either. Didn't this process start two years ago. I understand they pledged to open fall 2009, but they ran into deadline problems a long time ago. Nothing catostrophic will happen if the deadline is pushed back. If my family can no longer walk to high school, then so be it. It won't be the end of my world. However, that said, no one's world will end if we stop rushing through this process and look at the financials. How much money are we losing on BB judgements, penalties, etc. to move to another site? We also need to make sure the new site is environmentally safe for the kids. It does appear the site was dismissed quickly last time due to contamination.

It is our duty to be involved in our community and local government and I don't mind taking time out of my day to be a part of the process.

In answer to your question...

Its all a conspiracy by the school board. Get over it. You must live in White Eagle or Tall Grass.

Your a day late and a dollar short.

To Anonymous who srote this...
Jim, thank you for the explanation. I wonder where we can get the real numbers for projections? This would be a much simpler debate (with less emotions attached) if all the facts were released for public review. Posted by: Anonymous | February 27, 2008 11:51 AM

Are you a SB member? YES it would be good to release the facts, but as they were in 2005-2006 when you were trying to justify the need for a 3rd HS. I wonder what the numbers then, look like today. The problem is many more people do not believe anything the SB and those who support it. You have created the bad will, and cannot undo it.

--Actually I bought a house in Tall Grass so my child could walk to elementary school, middle school and high school. I can respect and admire other peoples behavior with out agreeing blindly with thier point of view.

I agree I also want to know what the current numbers and projections look like. I called NVHS and found out current enrollment is 4500. The new boundaries reduced that number by only 600 kids. For everyone complaining how extremely overcrowded the school is and thier kids have a hard time competing to be involved in sports or poms it seems like the SB didn't help very much. They are still all "going to have such a hard time".

I just bought my house so we could walk to school. But now it seems we may not. I am however trying to be involved in a decision that affects everyone in District 204 without pointing fingers or creating bad will.

What bad will have I created, exactly?

By the way, I moved back here last year and wasn't here for the last vote. Sorry I meant to sign my blog name, curious. Feel free to review all of my comments above.

Any other questions?????? I got a few.

Okay, assuming we all have to live with the bait and switch argument (that we are all idiots for believing the Board know what they were doing on the condemnation issue), why is the alternate site 6-8 miles from the center of the population growth?

Why with the addition of a 3d high school are average travel times (taking laid law's own data which is probably inaccurate and is based on dry runs that were done in best case scenarios during the current traffic patterns based on the current school locations) only dropping 3 minutes (26 to 23). Shouldn't we expect the times to drop by at least 1/3?

Why did we choose a site that was rejected by the Board two years ago because of, quote "the certainty of envirenmental DANGERS".

Why was the negotiation for the EOLA land done under the cover of darkness and driven by the new Superintendent (who surprisingly lives very, very close to the new school location). Does the fact that there is a new school in your backyard increase your property value?


Why were negotiations cut off for the BB land despite the fact that it is very likely the District will be hit with a 10-20 million dollar judgment on the land (wouldn't make sense to try to use this money as part of a land purchase?)

Why did the Board and district rule out the Macom site so quickly (and why did a process that was very deliberate until recently become so rushed).

How many appraisals did the district get on the EOLA site before making its offer (there are some well informed people who have opined that although the price may have been less than BB, it is more than fair market value for this particular land).

Can anyone answer any of these questions....Does the need to open the new high school in the Fall of 2009 trump using reasonable due diligence??

I expect I will see the typical "get over it" or "you must live in White Eagle or Tall Grass" responses....but would love to read an intelligent response to these questions.

Re: I'm sorry, are you making any point? I don't understand the context, who said anything about a conspiracy? What are you saying? Please explain your point and it's relationship to my questions.

I am trying to ask direct questions about specific topics before I make up my mind about the issues. I want to make sure we all endevor to do the right thing for all of us. Shouldn't we all?

___________________

In case you haven't been paying attention the conspiracy notion has been raised many times. To the effect that people are pointing the finger at our concerned and elected SB members that they are making their decisions purely on personal reasons and for personal benefit. Bringing up salaries is just another attempt to discredit our SB, the administrators and the teachers and to be honest it is disgusting. I don't go asking everyone on this site what their household income is and discredit them for their opinion if they don't make a certain amount because they aren't as valid as the next person. Disgusting.

As far as making your mind up if you haven't already a vote was taken 2 years ago and the district voted for a 3rd high school. Regardless of the boundaries regardless of the site the decision has been made. So the bloggers can keep bringing up their unhappiness and their displeasure on how they have to travel farther, how they have to cross railroad tracks, how thier poor children won't be able to see their friends any more because apparently going to a different school makes a difference. The bottom line is the IPSD, families and district realized the need for a 3rd high school and it will be built. End of discussion. Any other questions?

Are any of the teachers pilfering school supplies? I think yes.

Please some one help me with the grade school population.I am not "the sharpest tool in the shed" but the numbers seem crystal clear to me.
I used the 21 grade school population at present approx.13300 kids x
a factor of .66 (4 grades in high school at a time) and get a sum of 8778 kids. I used a projection of approx. 400 kids for our newest grade school (peterson). I figured peterson will build out w/in the next 5-7 years to around 800 kids. Those families in that school will have both middle schoolers and high schoolers which would bring the high school numbers even higher. I guess what I am asking for is some hard data maybe the Sun can help.

100% Agree with Vermont!

Again I have to look at all of this with a chuckle. All of this talk about teachers saleries is crazy because those saleries are in line with higher rated schools in the state. I can tell you that in the SDs in Niles, New Trier, Lake Forest etc they are much higher. In any case as I have stated before enough of the School Board bashing. We should be bashing outselves. They were elected by WE THE PEOPLE. The last election, Mark Metzger was relected by an overwhelming margin. Bradshaw was relected by a wide margin as well. Tyle had a closer race but was still relected. So we continue to put these people in office to do what they have been doing. The 204 board didn't have to have the public meetings. They could have just made the decision behind closed doors and sent out cards saying where your kids were going to school at such and such a time. That is the way many other districts do it. Got any objections? Tough! You elected us to make these decision and we can make them in any way we choose!
And incidently, forget about winning any lawsuits over the final boundries. Despite what many of you would like to believe there are no grounds. The bait and switch arguement will get laughed out of court unless there really is contamination at the AME site. If you want better representation from your school board get good people to take their place. That is all there is to it. Too many people in 204 just don't get it.

To Anonymous who srote this...
Jim, thank you for the explanation. I wonder where we can get the real numbers for projections? This would be a much simpler debate (with less emotions attached) if all the facts were released for public review. Posted by: Anonymous | February 27, 2008 11:51 AM

Are you a SB member? YES it would be good to release the facts, but as they were in 2005-2006 when you were trying to justify the need for a 3rd HS. I wonder what the numbers then, look like today. The problem is many more people do not believe anything the SB and those who support it. You have created the bad will, and cannot undo it.


Enough of the teacher bashing! Teachers don’t get three weeks off at Christmas time. Give me a break; they get off what the kids do. 204 DOES NOT pay for teachers to get their master’s degree or to continue their education. Teachers pay for their continuing education. With that said, consider a teacher who has 20 years with a masters’ degree he/she is probably making close to 80,000. Put that teacher with a master’s degree in the business word and she/he would be making double that! Administrators are 12 month employees. Someone said that if teachers worked 12 months their salary would be 133,000 according to that looks like ¾ of the Administrators are not paid enough! This blog is about the boundaries not the teacher’s salaries!

Jim, thank you for the explanation. I wonder where we can get the real numbers for projections? This would be a much simpler debate (with less emotions attached) if all the facts were released for public review.

I agree having small schools is optimal, however I feel that is not realistic today. I remember at NNHS I was part of the largest class ever and it did not affect anyone negatively. Naperville was just becoming a popular place to live because of its values.

I also would like to thank you for your input on this blog. You have stated your points without demeaning or belittling a person. This behavior is what I hope all of us to strive towards. Thanks.

To Jim who wrote this...
This includes absolutely 0.00 growth within the district. We know that in sector g (southwest Naperville) there are 400 plus kids coming just at the grade school level). I am not sure I understand the constant argument that we do not need a third high school.
Posted by: Jim Jandick | February 26, 2008 07:39 PM

The district is actually including lots of growth. That is the only way to offset the declining enrollment from about 40,000+ homes. That 400 kids from sector G was modified by the city of Napervile, and they felt obligated to retort the district's suggestions that sector G would generate more students than the city plan. This was done publicly by the city. Secondly, any number of kids from sector G build-out of maybe 1000-2000 homes cannot offset the decline from 40,000+ homes. Do the math. In other words, there are declines in lower grades of 7% per year that will spread to all grades eventually. There is plenty of capacity now and no new HS needed.

To: curious

It's a conspiracy don't you know!!(hahaha) The SB is trying to do everything and anything for their own benefit. To sum it up it's just another way for those few that are unhappy to try and create another arguement against the third HS or to raise concerns or issues. I could list about 10 of their arguements myself and create arguements against their desperate efforts but why waste my time what's done is done. Time to get used to the way things are going to be.

--I'm sorry, are you making any point? I don't understand the context, who said anything about a conspiracy? What are you saying? Please explain your point and it's relationship to my questions.

I am trying to ask direct questions about specific topics before I make up my mind about the issues. I want to make sure we all endevor to do the right thing for all of us. Shouldn't we all?

I also wish to keep decorum and I have made my point earlier that I don't care for improper conduct toward others. "Hate begets hate, violence makes more violence" Martin Luther King Jr. I hold no grudge and I only hope everyone else won't either. Please help me understand your feelings.

To: curious

It's a conspiracy don't you know!!(hahaha) The SB is trying to do everything and anything for their own benefit. To sum it up it's just another way for those few that are unhappy to try and create another arguement against the third HS or to raise concerns or issues. I could list about 10 of their arguements myself and create arguements against their desperate efforts but why waste my time what's done is done. Time to get used to the way things are going to be.

I am sorry,I stand corrected the teachers of our fine school district do not start at $12,000 it would be the school aids that start in that range. I was so aggravated by all the salary info I should have checked my figures.Christmas vacations I am told are less than three weeks, and I know many teachers in our fine district that further their education during summer breaks. I would like to see more input on how people would split the district with the third high school going in. I have been trying to figure a more efficient way than what was outlined by the board, but have struggled to come up w/ a better "plan of attack".

I felt that my thought process might bring this blog back to the subject at hand. I am a little new to responding to blogging but hear me out. 1) I am basing my explanation on the fact that the community as a whole has agreed that the high school population is too high, & that is why the last referendum was passed. 2) The frontier campus was started to relieve overcrowding at the sophomore-senior campuses of both high schools and was done so on a short term basis. If this process makes sense please read on. I was looking for an answer to what our high school population would be in 5-8 years, so I took the k-5 grade schools in 204 district added them up and multiplied by 2/3 (.66). I did this because 4 grade go to high school but there are 6 grades in k-5. With no growth we would be looking at around 8800 kids. Based on a maximum high school population of 3000 per building + freshman center we have a maximum capacity of 10,000 kids. The argument could be said why so much apparent overcapacity? My thoughts are why not get all the high schools to around 2500-2700 (keeping the freshman center at neuqua w/population of approx. 1000).We then have the breathing room to offer the frontier block college experience to all seniors at all 3 campuses because we will have the added sq. feet needed.


Oh yeah, I'm not sure I understand why everyone's salaries are relevent to the possible construction of a third high school. Can someone remind me?
Posted by: curious | February 27, 2008 08:23 AM

Curious, this was thrown out as bait merely as an attempt to divert the real issue at hand. Apparently, too much information contained in some of the 2-26-08 posts on the third high school ect. Interesting....

Oh yeah, I'm not sure I understand why everyone's salaries are relevent to the possible construction of a third high school. Can someone remind me?

I'm sorry Jim J, but it seems you argued the case for not building a third high school. With both freshman buildings open, each current HS could house 4000 students. Ok, we are at 8000 now. With the Frontier campus housing 600 students we are only short a few seats with your numbers of 8800.

Therefore, it is more fiscally responsible to add to our current schools. How about adding a senior campus to each school? This could emulate the college experience and further prepare our kids to continue their education.

Or we could open this discussion to the families attending and the educators at the schools for everyones input, I'm sure there are some great ideas out there how we could utilize our existing schools and make improvements for all of our students in District 204. Any ideas?

Posted by: Jim Jandick | February 26, 2008 09:35 PM

Jim, the only problem I have with your planning and building statements is that if we need ALL of the buildings, why in the world would you close WV Freshman campus? Oh, yeah, that's right, we need to create at least 1200 new seats to justify building a new high school. Please dont tell me we need a middle school as according to the district's numbers, we have reached our peak at just a smidge over 7000 this year and expect no new growth in the next few years. In fact with the district maturing any growth here and there will be offset by the fact. Good luck anytime soon in selling the middle schools into office space. Has anyone noticed how many empty strip malls and office space there is around here? Meadow Lakes Industrial Park, which is where Still Middle is located has NEVER fully developed in nearly 20 years.

Can anyone tell me the salaries of the school board members, we seem to have every other possible 204 employee. Oh thats right that is a non-paid position. Again those meeting are held every month, if you need directions they are as follows. Crouse Education Center 780 Shoreline Dr. Aurora, for those who will be dropping by for the 1st time take Ogden to Meadowlake Blvd south 1 block to Shoreline Dr. east to the building. While you are in the area take a look to your immediate south and you will notice a middle school. That school was built in that location because among other things, the board had the foresight that at some future time the school district may need to shed one middle school. That may seem seem strange to many of us now, but remember at the time the district converted 2 middle schools to freshman centers. So now we are at a point were we not only need all the buildings but also need another high school. If I can find any fault with the planning for total schools needed in this district it would only be that we should have looked at the third high school earlier. But then again I think we can all look at ourselves and say "If I only knew then what I know now."

To say that teachers start at $12 an hour is incorrect.

I spoke with a new D204 elementary school teacher at a recent school board meeting and she told me she started at approximately $45,000 a year, straight out of college. She said the 3 weeks off at Christmas was great. She was unsure what she was going to do with her 3 months off in the summer.

I agree with you Jim. Teaching today is much harder then it was when we were kids. Teachers are dealing with a lot more in the classroom then we could have ever imagined. This year at my sons MS we got to shadow our 6th graders for a day in the beginning of the school year. Seeing what the those teachers have to put up with was unbelievable. What was most surprising was the lack of respect kids have for their teachers or adults in general in the school. This is not only from the "underpriviliged" it's also from those with a sense of entitlement. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with that day in and day out.

I think it should be required to post your subdivision before leaving comments so we can understand if you have a bias.

Thanks for all the info on adm. staff / teachers salaries. May I make a suggestion, Please just post the website. FYI most non teaching staff work much more than 9 months a year, and teachers in this district may only be teaching students for 9.5 mo. a year but I have never known one to put in less than 55-60 hours a week. Now lets do the math shall we. 60 hours x 40 weeks = 2400 hours. Now lets take $100,000 divide by 2400 = $41.66 per hour. Has anyone had a car repaired lately, I have and the going rate is between $98-$105 per hour. Take another point for what it is worth, many teachers and teachers aids start at around 12,000 a year. You can do the math on the hourly rate. Thanks I not only feel but know that we are getting a heck of a value for our money
.

Thanks for all the info on adm. staff / teachers salaries. May I make a suggestion, Please just post the website. FYI most non teaching staff work much more than 9 months a year, and teachers in this district may only be teaching students for 9.5 mo. a year but I have never known one to put in less than 55-60 hours a week. Now lets do the math shall we. 60 hours x 40 weeks = 2400 hours. Now lets take $100,000 divide by 2400 = $41.66 per hour. Has anyone had a car repaired lately, I have and the going rate is between $98-$105 per hour. Take another point for what it is worth, many teachers and teachers aids start at around 12,000 a year. You can do the math on the hourly rate. Thanks I not only feel but know that we are getting a heck of a value for our money
.

The current capacity for the new high school is 3000, wvhs 3000 (note with-out the freshman center), nvhs 4000 (with the freshman center). Seems to me the board is basing a projection of 10,000 high school students. If you take current grade school kids k-5th grade total and multiply that by 2/3 (accounting for the fact that 4 grades at a time go to high school) you get a high school population of approx. 8800 students. This includes absolutely 0.00 growth within the district. We know that in sector g (southwest Naperville) there are 400 plus kids coming just at the grade school level). I am not sure I understand the constant argument that we do not need a third high school. If by chance the added students do not materialize the board could convert the freshman center at Neuqua back to a middle
school and sell one of the outlining middle schools. To side with 204 school board may not be a popular position ( in light of redistricting of students) at this time, but they did get it correct when the current Crone and Still middle schools were built. Either of these schools are located in areas that are very marketable. Also there will indeed be another referendum to fund the new high school probably in 3-4 years. If people are this concerned about the goings on in district 204,you should consider coming to a board meeting. The board meetings are held every month and you will find that most of the time there are plenty of seats.

Ehlers and Associates working with NIU to pump up enrollment projections! Ehlers are bond bidder/brokers taking heat for high enrollment projections that resulted in a school building boom and lots of bond principle and interest obligations.

Interesting news brewing in various newspapers about school districts in St. Charles, Oswego, elsewhere being unhappy with the fact that they built many school buildings based on bad data. Of course Ehlers is all over the news pointing to the housing slow down having ruined the numbers. All that is well and good if you have a district with a lot of land slated for development. I do not know the situation in those communities.

I can however, tell you that Naperville and Aurora have long been mature communities with not some much land left for development. In fact, gowth and student population was projected to set into a steep and accelerating decline, not able to be offset by any sized growth in the few remaining units of new housing slated for build-out.

SO PEOPLE...how did the enrollment figures get pumped up so high for ISPD 204 - where HS students were projected to be over 12,400 at one point before the SB stepped in and had it trimmed to 11,300 for public consumption. Well, that's good - sounds like officials assuring the public trust is in good hands...until one realizes that even the new, lower enrollment projections had no justification whatsoever.

Why did the SB immediately cancel the contract with NIU and get professional demographers on the project to assure integrity of the numbers? Answer - Because that would mean the real numbers would come out and a school would not be built. The Naper and Aurora growth projections clearly showed the impending drop in students - it was mathematically unavoidable. Even a bad demographer would stumble on the real answer. So they did not do it.

Well Ehlers of course has figure prints all over this, and what a great setup - the fox (the bond interest income maker) guarding the hen house (the study) - all done in "arms length" fashion via NIU.

To make things worse (for taxpayers) and better (for school builders) the capacities of the schools were conveniently modified downward - just in case the stupid "for the children" public started looking at enrollment projections. So in summary for those not following (even now), capacity shrinkage + enrollment swellage = new HS justified + referendum approved.

Of course today, the numbers seem to be adjusting slowly to reality after the approval of the referendum 2 years ago. In fact, we have an entire new HS emerging out of vapor space (about 2000 less students and 900 more operating capacity..and growing). Amazing.

But my good taxpayers, the SB has given us a gift on a silver platter, a second chance to correct at minimum a terrible oversight, and at worst FRAUD AGAIST THE TAXPAYERS. They have stumbled all over themselves, taken 2 years and the loss of about $20 million more taxpayer money because they did not like the judge for final BB site price (chump change for a district with $260 million annual cash machine).

Add another $10 million just to speed things up but still miss the 2009 start date for the new HS which will open in 2010 - well maybe half of it anyway. Of course there will be some problem getting that $10 million back from the parties who missed the deadlines.

Add maybe another $50 million in various law suits that will have to be paid out in a fraud case that overturns the 2006 referendum for the sham that it was.

But who cares. Well we do. STOP THE 3rd HS ALTOGETHER. Stop a $360 Million waste of taxpayer money (including BOND INTEREST and operations) on a white elephant and more administrators making over $100,000. Spend the money on the best teachers for our children, not building materials and lawsuits.

All I have to say is that Chris Vickers warned us. She told us that the boundary was a ploy used by the majority of the board to get the necessary votes to pass the referendum. I will certainly be listening to her a bit more. She was the only board member who saw this coming. We can't complain now especially when we had been warned.

These are the current administrator salaries.

http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_15158_1.pdf

Last Name, First Name Salary
Daeschner Stephen $225,000
Holm David $157,435
Birkett Kathryn $143,841
Pedersen Nancy $140,470
Duncan Kathleen $132,604
Tate Sharon $126,553
Hunt Jeffrey $128,609
Strang Jay $115,597
Hitt Patricia $109,150
Rhodes John $109,150
Dollinger Joan $106,777
Leonard Pamela $103,146
Nolten Patrick $92,000
Fleischel Diane $91,000
Buglio Janet $83,200
Williams Dierdre $81,863
Byrnes Barbara $81,000
Zozulia Karla $80,533
Sroka Chrystyna $80,533
Popp Michael $132,604
Schmid James $132,604
Myers Kevin $110,515
Severson Stephen $117,995
Kosteck Kathleen $110,515
Gorbatkin Stanley $107,011
Nonnemacher Jennifer $105,255
Kelly Mary $105,186
Davenport Allan $103,545
Raczak Mike $117,043
Sullivan Karen $111,483
*Selle Stephen $114,366
Baumann Martha $109,235
Kaufman Barbara $109,235
Shields LuAnn $109,235
Merrill Kerry $105,902
Jennings Sharon $101,029
VanWaning Maranda $101,029
Nguyen Quynh $98,235
Stephens Kimberly $97,073
Drendel Theresa $96,512
Worst David $96,512
Russell Terri $95,120
Zeman Ronald $95,120
Morgan Adrienne $95,120
Earlenbaugh Kimberly $93,558
Peterson Joan $93,558
Younce David $93,558
McKesson Cynthia $93,558
Johnston Laura $93,558
Bednar Jason $92,574
Keller Rudolph $126,049
Rogowski Michael $120,265
Russavage Maree $115,082
Barrows Barbara $113,505
Brown Michele $107,219
Ross Joy $107,219
Schreiber Rebecca $107,219
Smith Tyrone $107,219
Truckenbrod Mark $101,066
Fuhrer Lance $100,967
*Barrientos Nona $98,074
Harris Diana $94,551
Carlin Mark $90,100
Vogel Jon $85,957
Stoehrmann Michelle $80,533
Humphrey VaLarie $83,720
Dart Scott $83,720
Hillman Brad $81,863
Morrison Sarah $81,863
Henry Philip $81,863
Broz Jennifer $81,000
Cornish Kimberly $80,533
Laubenstein Pamela $85,446
Arzich Moira $77,359
Matuszewski Judith $73,646

To: Anonymous | February 26, 2008 01:24 PM
So tell me what was your point in putting all those old articles from local papers. Because I didn't read them.


Why bother putting your book down to read and post to this blog at all?

Point: it is incumbent to hear and weigh both sides of the issues.

>Don't bash the teachers and administrators

There was no bashing, the numbers speak for themselves.
People don't understand where the 1 billion dollars goes every 4 years, this helps them to understand a little better.

Some librarians make $100,000 a year. That's nice for them but necessarily good for you.

The State shall provide for an efficient system of high
quality public educational institutions and services.

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con10.htm

Is this efficient?

Here are the titles included, see for yourself.

A $100,000 salary earned in 9 months is the equivalent of $133,333 in 12 months. I'd like to make $100,000 a year and then take 3 months off.


Name Salary Position
Crouse Howard E 214024 District Superintendent
Mattingly Robert G 147832 Guidance Counselor
Dailey Lindle L 147647 High School Teacher
Holm David A 145000 Assistant District Superintendent
Birkett Kathryn J 137480 Assistant District Superintendent
Gaudio Therese A 136898 Elementary Teacher
Krebs Danute V 132910 Elementary Teacher
Henry Dennis A 131282 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Hatch Susan A 131002 Elementary Teacher
Crawford Donna K 129375 Assistant District Superintendent
Hackett Judith A 129375 Director
Pedersen Nancy V 129375 Assistant District Superintendent
Dynkowski Nancy A 127495 Elementary Teacher
Close Robert D 126087 Junior High/Middle Principal
Pedersen Michael G 124649 Director
Popp Michael A 122950 High School Principal
Bednar Michael J 122857 High School Teacher
Staley Charles W 122773 High School Teacher
Duncan Kathleen L 122130 Assistant District Superintendent
Schmid James A 122130 High School Principal
Keller Rudolph J 122103 Assistant High School Principal
Ryckaert Lillian A 120761 Social Worker
Hunt Jeffrey L 119481 Director
Raczak Michael S 118885 Junior High/Middle Principal
Stucky Darlene 118369 Elementary Teacher
Wagner Joseph A 118320 High School Teacher
Frestel Cynthia A 115421 Elementary Teacher
Johnson Johanna K 115026 Reading Specialist
Karubas Barbara 114868 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Kramen Rita E 114595 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Beslic Marie Arlene 112867 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Brace Loretta A 112867 Elementary Teacher
Holdeman Sherlyn J 112208 Elementary Teacher
Rogowski Michael D 111554 Director
Daniele Margaret M 111444 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Scheidecker David D 110392 High School Teacher
Janssen Marsha 109867 Elementary Teacher
Jenkins Elizabeth R 109179 Elementary Teacher
Shepard Gary L 108899 High School Teacher
Severson Stephen A 108675 Junior High/Middle Principal
Buelow Susan A 108672 High School Teacher
Stoneham Sandra L 108052 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Gerrish Norma J 107160 Elementary Teacher
Baskerville Sharon L 106833 Elementary Principal
Strang Jay J 106391 Junior High/Middle Principal
Friedman Marcia J 106208 Elementary Teacher
Russavage Maree E 105992 Assistant High School Principal
Baumann Martha B 105607 Elementary Principal
Finholt Paul E 105455 Guidance Counselor
Liveris Vanessa S 105231 High School Teacher
Barrows Barbara J 104540 Director
Wigtil Luke D 104299 High School Teacher
LaBianca Kathleen T 103920 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Jastrow William T 103733 High School Teacher
Whalen Barbara J 103460 Elementary Teacher
Sixsmith Betty A 102950 Special Education Teacher
Sullivan Karen L 102677 Elementary Principal
Best Elizabeth A 102554 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Higgins Timothy C 102091 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Johns James H 101965 High School Teacher
Lepic Michael C 101881 High School Teacher
Kosteck Kathleen M 101786 Junior High/Middle Principal
Myers Kevin A 101786 High School Principal
Selle Stephen C 101430 Elementary Principal
Hatch Larry 101094 Elementary Teacher
Laffin Roberta L 101093 High School Teacher
Holba Paul R 100999 High School Teacher
Ruettiger Dominic J 100862 Student Dean
Pedersen Scott M 100756 Guidance Counselor
Kaufman Barbara E 100607 Elementary Principal
Shields Luann L 100607 Elementary Principal
Hitt Patricia K 100529 Director
Rhodes John A 100529 Director
Martin Thomas L 100091 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Criger Jacquelyn G 99922 Speech/Language Pathologist
Giambalvo Jenny L 99885 Elementary Principal
Sheehan Kathleen S 99563 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Musch Thomas O 99294 High School Teacher
Martin Victoria M 98870 Elementary Teacher
Brown Michele L 98750 Assistant High School Principal
Ross Joy A 98750 Assistant High School Principal
Schreiber Rebecca L 98750 Assistant High School Principal
Smith Tyrone L 98750 Assistant High School Principal
Castor Susan M 98609 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Drew / Brejcha Maureen J 98602 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Dee Sandra J 98574 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Gorbatkin Stanley L 98559 Junior High/Middle Principal
Hawkins John A 98555 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Hoag Michael W 98402 Psychologist
Dollinger Joan E 98344 Director
Murphy Paul M 98178 High School Teacher
Truckenbrod Mark D 98083 Assistant High School Principal
Berendt Michael J 97956 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Lustig Keith R 97827 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Schleining Ami M 97606 Junior High/Middle Teacher
Stedman Joseph P 97589 Librarian/Media Specialist
White Susan D 97589 Librarian/Media Specialist

Remember these are 2006 figures, not 2008.

To Public Ed Gone Wild:
You are wrong. The salaries are correct but as I look down the list of names, the majority of the people on it are ADMINISTRATORS in the district and work a 12 month calendar. There are many names of people who routinely work 70-80 hour weeks in order to supervise before and after school activities, attend parent meetings, and other mandated responsibilities.

This discussion is about the boundary issues-not administrator/teacher salaries. Don't bash the teachers and administrators educating your children for 7 hours a day. They deserve your respect and admiration.

Laura, just curious, do you really think I have time to read all those boaring articles from nespaper archives. Sorry, if I had that much time I'll pick up a good book to read. So tell me what was your point in putting all those old articles from local papers. Because I didn't read them.

Why are we painting the SB with such a wide brush? Each member is responsible for their behavior as well as the representations and opinions they make individually and that’s exactly they way they should be judged. Someone has been talking but is anyone listening? As you read this, remember, it takes a majority to make change and a difference. Excerpts from the following articles:

How much is 55 acres along 75th Street in Aurora worth?
By BRITT CARSON staff writer; January 14, 2007

… School board member Curt Bradshaw said the district's offer is fair judging
from the last two parcels of land sold in the area…

"Given those comparable properties, I think we are somewhere in the middle
and we are not being unreasonable in our thinking of the value of the
property," Bradshaw said. "I believe the value a jury will determine is
significantly closer to what we offered than what the other side believes it
is worth."
….
School board member Christine Vickers has not completely closed the door on
Macom's proposal, but said she is cautious.

"The fact remains that the district has yet to acquire the Brach-Brodie
parcel and there are many unknowns that go along with this - the cost factor
being one of the biggest concerns present in the community," she said.
"Unfortunately, at this point in time, there is insufficient information to
determine whether or not the Macom land is a viable alternative.

"I do believe, as elected officials entrusted by the voters to protect their
best interests, that we have a duty to be fiscally prudent. Therefore I
believe it is our obligation to thoroughly investigate the feasibility of
this option."


Indian Prairie bond vote causes a rift
By Grace Aduroja
Chicago Tribune staff reporter
Published March 9, 2006
If voters approve a $124 million bond referendum measure to build a third high school in Indian Prairie District 204, they will be lowering their annual tax bill in the short run.

Refinancing an older debt while incurring the new one allows for the yearly decrease, but stretches out payments for a longer period.

The money issues are only part of the controversy. One school board member continues to say she doesn't believe the new school is needed and plans to vote no on March 21.

Christine Vickers repeatedly has questioned the district's projected growth numbers and asks why administrators haven't considered other solutions, such as boundary changes that would more evenly distribute students between the existing high schools.

If approved, the bond issue and refinancing plan would reduce the district's annual tax rate to 57 cents from about 78 cents. That means the owner of a $300,000 home would pay a district tax of around $600 a year, compared with $735 now, according to projections.

The debt restructuring means the payments would have to be made for 20 years instead of the 11 in which the district now would retire its debt.

Administrators say they need to build the school to accommodate the growing student population in south Naperville and Aurora. Vickers disagrees.

"I believe we have the capacity to handle the current enrollment and any additional blips that may come through the system," she said.

Administrators stand by their calculations. They say the state's adjusted availability formula, which schools use to procure construction grants, provides a reliable basis for how many students a school can hold.

By that calculation, the main campus of Neuqua Valley High School in Naperville is operating above its 2,578-student capacity.

"However, the district operates more efficiently than the state expects," said Supt. Howard Crouse in an e-mail message to residents. The school currently houses about 2,950 students.

Vickers said the district is using the wrong numbers to make its case. She said the adjusted available capacity formula is used by state officials only to compare the accessible space in schools that apply for construction aid. State officials agree.

"We only use this to determine the capacity for school construction," said Susan Weitekamp, principal operations consultant for the Illinois State Board of Education. "It's a way of measuring all districts as equally as possible."

State officials do not encourage districts to use those figures to determine capacity because the formula does not account for things like hallway space or smaller class sizes in science laboratories, she said. Instead, they say schools should hire design architects to figure out exactly how many students a school can comfortably fit.

District 204 administrators say they did that.

"We talked with our own architects while building the building," and they said the main campuses of Neuqua and Waubonsie can each house about 3,000 students, Crouse said. There are nearly 3,000 students at Waubonsie's main campus but neither of the freshman buildings has reached their capacity of about 1,200 students.

Those who oppose a third high school also argue that a College of DuPage partnership that can house up to 600 students at an off-campus site will alleviate future overcrowding. That program will begin this fall with about 150 students.

"All I know is that you can go over to any of our schools right now, like Neuqua, and you can't get through the hallways," said board Vice President Bruce Glawe. "There's no way we're going to fit a bunch more kids in either of these high schools without hurting our children."

This is the latest in a string of arguments about the school proposal. Community discussions became heated when residents expressed their views on boundary changes that would result from building a third high school.

Vickers didn't vote for any of the boundary change plans, citing her opposition to the construction of the school.

District 204 officials say they have 9,200 pupils in 2nd through 5th grades, more than it can handle at the two high schools and the College of DuPage center. The high schools' enrollment is now 7,100.

Building another high school would allow the district to convert the freshman campus at Waubonsie Valley High School in Aurora to a seventh middle school, alleviating projected overcrowding in the mid-grade levels.

Vickers argues that it would be cost-effective to convert a newly constructed and unused elementary school into a middle school. School officials have rejected the idea, saying they expect having enough kids to fill the vacant building soon, although it will not be this fall.

"The numbers speak for themselves. They know my position, and they haven't had any real good arguments against it," Vickers said.

Brand-new school sleeps in
Peterson Elementary waits for more students to warrant opening
By Britt Carson
SPECIAL TO THE HERALD NEWS

August usually is crunch time for a new elementary school. The last coats of paint are being added, and teachers and staff are busy preparing the school for students.
However, when classes in Indian Prairie District 204 resume Aug. 28, the doors at Peterson Elementary will remain closed, the rooms empty. The doors to the brand-new school will stay shuttered for possibly the entire 2006-07 school year.
The 850-student school, at 248th Avenue and 103rd Street on the southwest side, was built to house the children expected from homes in the Ashwood development. However, the 800-home project has been slow to develop and so far there are fewer than 20 elementary school-age children from the area, said Donna Crawford, assistant superintendent of elementary education. The children are currently split between Graham and Kendall elementary schools.
"It just didn't work out with the enrollment levels where they need to be to make opening viable," school board President Jeannette Clark said. "It is prudent to keep it closed in the very short term, and I look to see it opening within the coming year."
This is the first time the district has built a school and not immediately needed it, she said.
'We did need to build it'
The school was built with $12 million from the State Construction Grant Program.
"We will have use for this school," Clark said. "I would say the circumstances were beyond our control and this could not have been foreseen. The money was from a grant and either we built it then or we would have lost that money and had to use taxpayers' money. We did need to build it when we did. The cost of the school would have only escalated and I am comfortable we did the right thing."
Board member Christine Vickers said the Ashwood slowdown reflects a national trend, but wishes something could be done to use the space for this year.
"It is a disappointment," she said. "I feel like if we don't use it, we have wasted a lot of dollars. I feel like at some point we will have to revisit how to use that space accordingly."
It is no surprise that “smear and fear” campaigns have arisen against District 204 School Board challengers just days before the April 17 election. It is interesting to note that I can only recall these smear campaigns against challengers, me included, since I’ve lived in the district over the past 17+ years.

There are three, maybe more, smear and fear email campaigns being authored by various individuals, the latest being from a “204 the truth”. Unfortunately, we don’t know who “204 the truth” is because he/she refuses and/or fails to intentionally identify themselves by their real name. In my mind, this calls into question the validity of the message(s), their intent and motive. It is disappointing to me that politics in the suburbs has now stooped to the level of that seen in the City of Chicago, even more so that it is at the local school board level.

While adults set standards and principles for children that bear no tolerance for bullying, disrespect, and/or attempts to cause personal and professional harm to others, which same standards and principles are strongly practiced and adhered to in our school systems today, do we excuse these principles and standard for other adults? And better yet, if you are brave enough to spread propaganda, don’t you think you should be brave enough to actually sign your name so others can properly weigh the credibility and intent of your purpose? Is it no wonder why few wish to get involved in these things or resign early due to intimidation tactics, bullying and/or name calling?

What I hope for today is that you do your homework and determine for yourself, not by the influence of nameless individuals who hide for reasons unknown, what you wish for Indian Prairie Dist. 204 by voting on April 17, 2007. Thank you for your time. Please feel free to share.

Christine Vickers
4/11/07
Wrong tone for a local election?
Did Naperville’s school board campaigns get too negative?
By Melissa Jenco and Jake Griffin
Daily Herald Staff Writers
Posted Thursday, May 03, 2007
…Anonymous critics
Veiled by the anonymity of the Internet, discussion threads left on message boards in both districts sometimes devolved into fiery wars between candidates’ supporters.
Not all bloggers followed the slash-and-burn tactics, nor did all candidates feel they were treated poorly by opponents. But some said the criticism crossed the line between constructive debate and hostility.
District 204 board member Christine Vickers, who was not on the ballot, filed a police report after receiving what she called an “e-mail threat” that arrived in the early morning hours after Election Day and in the wake of the shootings at Virginia Tech.
“In the subject line it said, ‘Good Night Christine,’ and then in the body all it said was: ‘You’re next,” she said. “I e-mailed this person back and told him I knew who he was and I didn’t understand his message, but I take it as a threat.”
Aurora police said they spoke with the e-mail author, but no charges were filed and the matter has been turned over to the DuPage County state’s attorney’s office.
Dear Friends:

Once again, misinformation is being circulated which needs to be dispelled. Please know that the email incident recently reported to police was neither considered a joke nor a matter to be taken lightly by me, my husband or other family members. We have little knowledge about its author.

On the eve of Election Day shortly after midnight, I received what appeared to be a threatening email authored by an individual under the guise of a cartoon caricature. In fact, this same person has been heavily involved in spreading libelous information about me and others. I believe the intent and purpose of these actions is to harm the reputation and character of those intended. This same person has been a moderator and administrator of an allegedly “unbiased” political web blog. Additionally, I have been privy to information which confirms that this same individual utilized similar tactics to taunt and intimate other non-incumbent candidates as well as various personal acquaintances of mine. (To those friends this occurred to: My sincere apologies for this inappropriate behavior!)

Prior to filing the police report, all past and present incidents were reviewed and considered by my personal attorneys. This included various email communications written and forwarded by officials, ex-officials, identifiable and anonymous individuals and web postings. Although I have received hateful and bitter emails over the course of my board tenure—some demanding my silence; others my acquiescence with the majority and yet others my immediate resignation, etc.--this was the first time I ever felt potentially threatened. I note that some of the anonymous posters on the website also authored these harsh communications.

While we are all certainly entitled to our opinion, in my mind it becomes an entirely different matter when negative communications are written to insight hatred, hostility and fear mongering against those intended for the purpose to promote particular political agendas and desired outcomes. One example which comes to mind is a recent pre-election email authored by an ex-school board member chock full of negative spin-doctor with the bottom line basically inferred that I and others have agendas that will “hurt our kids and the district”. As you know, this has never been nor will ever be my intention nor do I know anyone with these intentions in mind!

In light of the nature of events, their undertone, potential safety concerns and the unascertainable intent of the email message, at the advice of legal counsel this incident was reported to the Aurora Police Department. It is presently being considered for further action by the DuPage County State’s Attorney’s Office.

I sincerely appreciate your continued support and friendships. Below is an excellent editorial which appeared in the 5/6/07 Sunday edition of the Daily Herald written by Editor John Zimmerman. It is well worth reading and I certainly appreciate the time and attention the Herald has given these untoward matters.
Christine Vickers
5/9/2007
________________________________________
Ranting and raving getting out of control from bullies on blogs
John Zimmerman
Posted Sunday, May 06, 2007
E-mail is great way to communicate.
It is also a refuge for cowards.
It offers a way to be petty, mean, personal, rude, crude, confrontational and just plain silly — without having to face the person being pummeled by the computer keyboard.
Take, for example, the way some candidates for school board in Indian Prairie District 204 and Naperville Unit District 203 were mauled on “message boards” on the Internet.
District 204 candidate Michelle Davis said she found “hurtful dialogue, twisted lies and racist jokes” on a message board. Davis is black. She finished fourth in the District 204 campaign, and believes the garbage on the blogs contributed to her defeat. District 204 candidate Leanne Lyons also believes she lost the election because of wrong and hurtful things she said was put out about her on a message board. More specifically, she blames a Daily Herald columnist who directed people to this message board. I doubt a message board of this ilk can swing the outcome of election, but it’s tough stuff to read, for sure.
The three candidates who ran as the Taxpayers Ticket in the District 203 campaign found themselves referred to as the “scumbag slate” on the Internet.
Suzyn Price, another District 203 candidate, said she was disturbed by an anonymous blog that said she doesn’t belong in the community.
District 204 school board member Christine Vickers got something similar, via e-mail, and called the police.
“In the subject line, it said, ‘Goodnight Christine,’ and then in the body all it said was: ‘You’re next.’”
This, in the wake of the shootings at Virginia Tech. Whatever this person was thinking, he had to discuss with the police. No charges were filed but the matter has been turned over to the DuPage County state’s attorney’s office.
In my career as an opinion writer in the era of the advent of the Internet, I have gotten my share of ugly e-mails. (Though more often, I get e-mails that offer strong but constructive criticism of my work, and even praise.)
And out of curiosity, I joined in on a discussion board on current events via my home computer. The degree of profanity, name-calling and attempts at intimidation was appalling. It was the kind of stuff you’d expect to hear from street gang members, not put on computer screens by supposedly intelligent, stable people.
I got a feeling people like this never get over having the ball taken from them when they were kids, and relish the opportunity to be bullies on their own, on the blogs, all under the safe cover of anonymity. Or maybe no one wants to listen to the weird mean mush dribbling out of their mouths, so they work out their frustration voicelessly by clacking out their caustic commentary on the computer.
Or maybe all the rage on the Internet has nothing at all to do with poor self concepts or revenge, but is a reflection of a society becoming less civil. It just seems more people are angry and alienated and quicker to badmouth everything. At least that is my observation from communicating with the public in a 20-year journalism career.
But I have found a way to respond to those irascible e-mailers. Sometimes, I just ignore them if they are nothing but personal attacks. But other times, I will reply, and invite the person to give me a call so that we may talk, man-to-man or man-to-woman, about the opinions they have about my opinions.
Most time, they never call. Not surprising. They don’t want to have a personal exchange of this kind. They can’t handle that. It’s too uncomfortable to be this accountable. They’d rather hide behind their computer and bash away without risk of putting their face to their reckless ranting. They can’t be happy or feel in command any other way.
All this brings to mind this quote from the film Billy Madison:
“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.”
Or in this case, having read it.

Verdict poses problem for Indian Prairie board
By James Kimberly | Tribune staff reporter
September 28, 2007
Indian Prairie School District 204 officials will meet next week now that a jury has decided they must pay more than $30 million for land for a third high school.

School Board President Mark Metzger said Thursday that the board will meet with administrators in closed session to discuss their options such as whether it is prudent to appeal the jury's verdict. Metzger said problems posed by the size of the award in the condemnation lawsuit might keep the district from opening a new high school in fall 2009 as planned.

"I think it is safe to say that is in jeopardy," Metzger said.
A DuPage County jury late Wednesday decided that the school district should pay $28,503,750 for 55 acres on the southwest corner of 75th Street and Illinois Highway 59 that it took under the power of eminent domain. The jury also found that the school district ought to pay the Brach-Brodie trusts, which own the property, an additional $2.5 million compensation for loss of value that the remaining 70.9 acres will suffer.

During a weeklong trial before Judge Robert Kilander, the school district presented appraisals and other evidence that showed the land was worth $13.75 million. Attorneys representing the Brach-Brodie trusts argued the land was worth more than $33 million.

The school board will discuss its options at 7 p.m. Monday at the Crouse Education Center, 780 Shoreline Drive, Aurora.

"Obviously, this is a big blow to us," said school board member Alka Tyle. "The price that the jury has awarded is a lot more than we had expected."

Tyle said the school board must consider all options.

"It is our responsibility to not use more money than we have and to not dip into other funds," she said.

Voters approved a referendum measure in March 2006 authorizing the district to borrow $124.7 million for a new high school. Students in the district, which serves parts of Aurora and Naperville, attend Waubonsie Valley and Neuqua Valley High Schools.

Board member Christine Vickers said the district ought to take a step back and evaluate whether a third high school is still necessary. Vickers said the board ought to compare actual enrollment to the projections made in 2005.

"I think it is only prudent that we visit this situation as a whole again," Vickers said.

District administrators spent much of Thursday meeting about the land acquisition, Vickers said.

In a statement, Supt. Stephen Daeschner said the administrators were "gathering information so we can discuss options with our board."

"We remain committed to being good stewards of the funds we've been given, so our options must not only be driven by what's best for kids, but they must be fiscally responsible," Daeschner said.

District 204 starting over with Metea Valley plans
By Melissa Jenco | Daily Herald Staff Published: 9/28/2007 12:22 AM
Indian Prairie Unit District 204 officials say they are going back to the drawing board to explore options for building Metea Valley High School.
Where to build it, how to build it and even whether to build it at all are under discussion, they said Thursday.
Questions about the district's approach to building a third high school arose after its condemnation trial ended Wednesday with a jury deciding Indian Prairie would owe roughly $17 million more than what it offered property owners for 55 acres off Route 59 near 75th Street and Commons Drive in Aurora.
The district wanted to pay about $250,000 an acre for the property owned by the Brach-Brodie trust. The jury put the value at $518,000 an acre.
In light of the unexpected price tag, the district has several avenues it can pursue, including buying the land at the higher price, appealing the verdict, choosing a different site for the school, or not building a third high school at all.
"We need to consider what the options are and the ramifications and consequences of those options," school board President Mark Metzger said Thursday. "Nothing is guaranteed to be on the table and nothing is guaranteed to be off the table."
The school board will meet at 7 p.m. Monday to discuss the issue in closed session. It will not take any formal action that night but legally must open the meeting for public comment.
District 204, which includes portions of Naperville, Aurora, Bolingbrook and Plainfield, had hoped to purchase the 55 acres in question and combine it with 25 acres it already owns on the site to build a facility to ease overcrowding at Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley high schools.
When it was not able to agree on a fair price with the property owners, it filed a condemnation suit and left it up to a jury to determine the cost.
After a week of testimony and eight hours of deliberation, the jury unanimously agreed Wednesday that the land is worth $28.5 million. It also awarded property owners an additional $2.5 million to make up for loss of value to the remaining 70.9 acres at the site.
The price is more than double the school district's offer of $13.75 million.
If the district decides it wants to purchase the land at the price the jury set, it has 30 days to make a payment and then can take immediate possession of the property.
It also can ask for a new trial or file an appeal, but both those options would be time-consuming. The district has said it wants to open Metea in the fall of 2009.
Board member Alka Tyle called the verdict "a big blow" to the district. She and Metzger both said they need more information before they can say what they think is the best option.
"As a board, it is our responsibility to use the taxpayers' money wisely," Tyle said. "We can't use more money than what we have and we don't want to have to dip into general funds, so our responsibility is to look at whatever options are out there."
Board member Christine Vickers, a longtime opponent of building Metea, said officials also should study enrollment figures, which she said are lower than the district predicted when it sought its 2006 tax increase for the school.
"Certainly it's our fiduciary responsibility not to just look at this once in a while and make sure we're going in the right direction," Vickers said. "We have a duty to the public to make sure what we do is in accordance with the data."
In 2006, voters approved a $124.7 million tax increase to build Metea, amid concerns the district's enrollment would cause overcrowding at Neuqua and Waubonsie.
Construction on the 3,000-student facility was supposed to begin this spring.
As delays continue, costs are rising, but the school board has promised it will not ask residents for another tax increase to pay for the school.
Metzger said the district has additional money it can use for the project from interest and land cash donations. He expects to find out how much additional money is available when the school board meets Monday.
District 204 growth slows
Numbers renew debate over need for Metea
By Melissa Jenco | Daily Herald Staff Published: 10/11/2007 12:04 AM
Indian Prairie Unit District 204 enrollment is up this year but still lagging behind most projections, according to figures released by the district.
Officials say a housing slump temporarily is stalling the expected influx of students, but enough growth eventually will come to justify the need to build Metea Valley High School.
"We are all looking at the same numbers," board member Curt Bradshaw said Wednesday. "People arrive at different conclusions depending upon what they are (looking) for. Some people are solving for survival; the district is solving for success."
Critics, however, point to the numbers as evidence a third high school is not necessary in the district that serves portions of Naperville, Aurora, Plainfield and Bolingbrook.
"It's a lot of money for a problem that we don't have, nor can we substantiate long-term," school board member Christine Vickers said.
The district used three projection models when pushing for its 2006 tax increase to build Metea, which is planned to house 3,000 students.
One of those models assumes growth will stay the same for the next decade. The other two assume an increase of either 3,000 or 4,000 students over 10 years.
Overall enrollment is at 28,825 this year, up from 28,637. But the projections put it between 28,839 and 29,679.
At the elementary level, enrollment fell by 189 students, down to 13,245. Projections ranged from 13,416 to 13,896.
Middle school enrollments rose by 143 this year to 7,026, which falls between the projected range of 6,887 and 7,127.
In high school, enrollment went up by 268 students to 8,128. Despite the increase, it's far behind the district's estimates, which put it between 8,536 and 8,656.
In 2006, residents approved a $124.7 million referendum proposal for Metea. At the time, officials said they were confident high school enrollment would be between 10,200 and 10,500 in 10 years.
As part of its referendum campaign, the district said it intended to build Metea on 80 acres owned by the Brach-Brodie Trust off Route 59 in Aurora.
When negotiations for that site broke down, the district sought a trial to condemn the land. But the jury set a price that was $17 million more than the district wants to pay and now the school board is weighing other possible options for a site.
Although this year's enrollment is lower than expected, Bradshaw said 10 percent of the potential housing units in the district have yet to be developed. When they are, he said, it will cause the expected influx of students -- even if it didn't happen this year.
"Although the downturn in housing has caused growth for new students to halt, these new housing units will certainly be developed in the future," he said.
He expects high school enrollment to reach at least 9,200 students in about three years. With total capacity at 8,400 at Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley high schools -- including freshman campuses but not the Frontier campus -- he said the need for a third high school is clear.
But some, including Vickers, are not convinced.
Vickers said she sees a maturation of the populations, a district that is nearly built-out and a slow housing market. She says all those factors point to enrollment not reaching projections now or in the future.
She added that the district's Frontier campus can hold 600 students to help relieve any crunch at the main high school campuses.
"I don't believe the numbers support the need," she said. "The bubble of students in the system, which have been there for some time now, is the plateau and the declines in elementary substantiate (those) three factors."
But Superintendent Stephen Daeschner said he wouldn't base his opinion on one year and pointed to several grade levels, such as fourth and sixth, that are among the highest the district has seen.
At the high school level, he said research shows the optimum size for a building is 1,800 students. Even with three high schools, there would be about 3,000 students at each.
In the meantime, he said current enrollment alone demonstrates a need for at least one more high school.
"Good God, we don't have any room," he said. "We can't be running high schools at 4,400 and 3,600 and that's what we do now."


>what is even more disturbing are the countless administrators making more than a 100K a year who can not be trusted to be good stewards of our money

I would not have believed it unless I had seen it for myself. Countless administrators and teachers are making $100,000 a year or more and this is data for 2006. Not bad for working only 9 months out of the year in most cases.

Name Salary
Crouse Howard E 214024
Mattingly Robert G 147832
Dailey Lindle L 147647
Holm David A 145000
Birkett Kathryn J 137480
Gaudio Therese A 136898
Krebs Danute V 132910
Henry Dennis A 131282
Hatch Susan A 131002
Crawford Donna K 129375
Hackett Judith A 129375
Pedersen Nancy V 129375
Dynkowski Nancy A 127495
Close Robert D 126087
Pedersen Michael G 124649
Popp Michael A 122950
Bednar Michael J 122857
Staley Charles W 122773
Duncan Kathleen L 122130
Schmid James A 122130
Keller Rudolph J 122103
Ryckaert Lillian A 120761
Hunt Jeffrey L 119481
Raczak Michael S 118885
Stucky Darlene 118369
Wagner Joseph A 118320
Frestel Cynthia A 115421
Johnson Johanna K 115026
Karubas Barbara 114868
Kramen Rita E 114595
Beslic Marie Arlene 112867
Brace Loretta A 112867
Holdeman Sherlyn J 112208
Rogowski Michael D 111554
Daniele Margaret M 111444
Scheidecker David D 110392
Janssen Marsha 109867
Jenkins Elizabeth R 109179
Shepard Gary L 108899
Severson Stephen A 108675
Buelow Susan A 108672
Stoneham Sandra L 108052
Gerrish Norma J 107160
Baskerville Sharon L 106833
Strang Jay J 106391
Friedman Marcia J 106208
Russavage Maree E 105992
Baumann Martha B 105607
Finholt Paul E 105455
Liveris Vanessa S 105231
Barrows Barbara J 104540
Wigtil Luke D 104299
LaBianca Kathleen T 103920
Jastrow William T 103733
Whalen Barbara J 103460
Sixsmith Betty A 102950
Sullivan Karen L 102677
Best Elizabeth A 102554
Higgins Timothy C 102091
Johns James H 101965
Lepic Michael C 101881
Kosteck Kathleen M 101786
Myers Kevin A 101786
Selle Stephen C 101430
Hatch Larry 101094
Laffin Roberta L 101093
Holba Paul R 100999
Ruettiger Dominic J 100862
Pedersen Scott M 100756
Kaufman Barbara E 100607
Shields Luann L 100607
Hitt Patricia K 100529
Rhodes John A 100529
Martin Thomas L 100091
Criger Jacquelyn G 99922
Giambalvo Jenny L 99885
Sheehan Kathleen S 99563
Musch Thomas O 99294
Martin Victoria M 98870
Brown Michele L 98750
Ross Joy A 98750
Schreiber Rebecca L 98750
Smith Tyrone L 98750
Castor Susan M 98609
Drew / Brejcha Maureen J 98602
Dee Sandra J 98574
Gorbatkin Stanley L 98559
Hawkins John A 98555
Hoag Michael W 98402
Dollinger Joan E 98344
Murphy Paul M 98178
Truckenbrod Mark D 98083
Berendt Michael J 97956
Lustig Keith R 97827
Schleining Ami M 97606
Stedman Joseph P 97589
White Susan D 97589

Source: http://www.thechampion.org/

Isn't that the same bell that NV students stole and was found along a road or something?

>What bells and whistles does Nequa have that really are not essential?

That's easy, the school has a $10,000 non-functioning fake school bell. How is that for your tax dollars well spent?

Next time the district comes with hat in hand saying they have no money to buy computers, just remember that bell. It is a symbol of what is wrong with district 204 admninistration and how they waste money left and right.

I too was sitting with a clear view of the press table, and I do know what Britt Carson looks like.

What I noticed was her whispering and giggling with the man seated to her right more than once when someone from TG was speaking about the bridge. The first time I didn't think much - she could have been giggling about anything. But the subsequent times it seemed inappropriate and caused me to wonder if the reporting on an issue that many of us take seriously is taken seriously by the Sun.

I mean no disrepsect to Ms. Carson. But I sincerely hope that all citizens' concerns are treated fairly.

In reading this blog, I also wonder if there is a bias against certain area's positions. I think the moderators should remain fair and neutral.


Moderator Jim: We try to be fair as equal as possible - unlike others who are unfairly smearing our reporter.

I could not agree with you more, Annonymous. I think Pembroke Commons made lemonade out of the lemons they got and seem to be doing fine with great leadership rising in that subdivision, some from a second generation of whom attended these "crumbling" schools.

Yes, we are all bored with these District 204 threads. It is time for Host Ted and Moderator Jim, to cut the umbilical cord on all these District 204 threads and let people take a break, instead of worrying about the blog ratings on their threads, at the expense of allowing people to go afer each others jugulars daily.

If residents can get a pause from this blogging action, I am sure they will devote their new found energy to making that great lemonade from all those lemons.

I think the reason District 203 survived there boundary changes so well which did occur in the past, is because they did not have bloggin in those days and instead concentrated on squeezing those lemons for that delicious lemonade. Sometimes when things were not so bad they even squeezed the oranges and made great orange juice. They had no choice and we have no choice! The decision was made and we have to move on!

Wow. What happened to the Naperville I know and love. There is more than enough room in this community for differing opinions. The woman who wrote hers in the Sun, praising the school board, is certainly entitled to express hers. You actually called her names!! Come on people, start acting like adults.

Anonymous 9:14 PM. I am with you. I have exhausted this issue myself but have tried to end it which some humanity.

But let me end my blogging with a laugh. My kids swam for Fox at NVHS and they both got warts from the showers!

Good night everyone!

Moderator Jim: I know your apology was sincere as was mine. No harm done!

Many of you have noted the attitude of the board president and super at the meeting- The very first words out of the super's mouth was regarding the 'sense of entitlement' attitude. So let me tell you a little bit about this 'elistist- self centered-snob' from TG as you call us. Maybe if we humanize this, the bitterness can lessen. And hey, it's a nice reprieve in this blog.

My dad passed away when I was a teen. We lost our home, our cars, everything. We had no life insurance. I had to go to work to help keep a roof over our heads and ensure my younger brother didn't drop out of school. We lived hand to mouth for many many years and often didn't have enough money for food. I worked very very hard to make a life for myself without the luxury of a college education but I persevered and kept my head down and worked. I worked two jobs so I could afford a car. I didn't enjoy extended maternity leaves, working up to delivery and back to work when my beautiful babies were just 6 weeks old, placing them in the care of others, worrying about the next ear infection, the next set of tubes, and what the impact was on their development. I never had the luxury of resting on my laurels but have worked full time from the time I was 18 until now, some 25 or so years later and I don't see that changing anytime soon. In spite of my personal adversities, I was able to rise in my profession to a level that belies my education. I am able to provide a great life for my children and my husband was able to become a fantastic stay at home dad. I guess we don't fit the mold of what you think is TG.

My children are truly blessed to have such a euphoric childhood and I have ensured they will not endure the hardships I had to face. I will continue to work hard to make a good life for them because it's not about me. I will continue to volunteer at school and continue to teach their religous ed and be a cheerleading coach and just 'make it work'. I will continue to remind my children how great a life they have and continue to give them opportunities to give back through charity and volunteerism, as do many of my neighbors. Fry was the second largest contributors to a christmas drive for underpriveleged families this past holiday season, sending truck loads of gifts. My kids picked everything out (filling every item on the list) knowing it meant less for them and they were so glad that we did it. I love my neighborhood because we have big hearts. Maybe if you realize that we are just like everyone else; Hard working family oriented giving people then we can get past the mudslinging and focus on the facts.

The SB took advantage of us (the district). They led us to believe we were voting for a done deal that was far from done. We trusted them. We were naiive. Lessens learned. No one could fathom that the boundaries would change so drastically. Everyone thought the school would be central or south. North made no sense. The board did not give the community the respect of simply saying 'we hear what you are saying and we should digest this and reconvene'. I was shocked that they were willing to decide on Owen East and Ashwood right then and there, playing with the numbers which made no sense and waffling on NVHS and WVHS for Owen East, then Still and Scullen for WE and Ashwood. I am in total agreement that Owen and Ashwood needed to be addressed but they should have then looked collectively at the whole district and the impacts on Still and Scullen. They basically decided that the impact on Scullen could be swept under the carpet for another SB to solve. They pretty much said as much. Not only is Fry split at Scullen but they left an already overcrowded Scullen more crowded when my kids attend. That is not quality. It was negligent. And the choice for the MVHS site scares me. Parents implored that they reconsider the site for the safety of the kids- wait until all of the testings is completed. Reconsider alternative sidtes. But it all fell on deaf ears. It was a dog and pony show from the get go. If there is even a small risk of some type of exposure to our kids, why risk it when there are several other viable and comparitively priced sites available? It only takes one, heaven forbid, illness to risk the district to future lawsuits. Why gamble when you don't have to? Why rush this? Our kids would survive one more year of crowding in the schools if you can get this right.

On the last go around 2 years ago, they had numerous meetings before making the decision. I can understand that they did not want to go through that again but I believe they went overboard in the opposite direction so not to upset their lives any further at the expense of the district. They promised that all 3 schools would be at par academically and keep travel at a minimum. The numbers don't lie. It is not fair and balanced. The site is just plain wrong. If they had chose a more centrally located site, they could have kept the boundaries from 2 years ago in place and none of this angst would be going on. I am terribly disappointed as are many around the entire district.

But.... this is nothing compared to my childhood. My kids have it great. And they will have a great four years at WVHS. What would make it far better is if some of the SB is voted out in the next election. I think they've lost their energy and probably are sick of this whole thing just like we are and we are all suffering for it. Some new energy and different perspective would do us all some good!

Aren't you all bored with this yet. I can't believe that you all have so much time to still complain about the same old thing. NEW FLASH lifes not perfect and the sooner your learn the better off you'll be in the long run. When life hands you lemons you make lemonade. Anyone up for a glass?

Looks like you can continue the family tradition "move so your children can go to the school that you want them too"

Sue the builder who convinced you that your kids will always go to Neuqua no matter what. Sounds like a great sales tactic that worked. When we moved here we didn't know what school our kids were going to go to, really didn't care. All we knew was that we lived in the 204 school district.

Either inexperience in purchasing a house or plain ignorance. Things change, especially in a growing city. Live and learn. Next time get a contract in writing as to where your kids will go to school. Good luck!

Posted by: anonymous | February 25, 2008 06:06 PM

I addressed the issue that there is something more than distance involved with my dissatisfaction with how the SB has addressed the overcrowding issue and you choose to throw stones and change the topic. I'm glad for you that you didn't know where your kids were going to school when you bought your house...I on the other hand researched heavily to select a home that was to attend certain schools. Why does that make me a bad person?

I'll take full responsibility for the choices I have made, but I will also financially support those who wish to continue the process. I have no qualms with the builder or the developer, this situation is not their fault. I wasn't relying on their word, I was relying on the SB's word when I bought my house. Live and learn is exactly what I intend to do.

I just don't understand why those who disagree choose to attack the other side instead of creating a better argument for their side...it devalues their position.

Anoymous,

What bells and whistles does Nequa have that really are not essential?

They pretty much have what the other schools have but everything is newer and more modern. Of course a better swimming pool, a better basektball court, more internet connectivity in the classrooms, etc. Mostly essentials!

But can you name 10 whistles and bells that they have that are not needed! It just seems people are more self centered today than they were 20-25 years ago when the were grateful their kids got a free education in lieu of their taxes.

My kids go to crumbling Naperville Central but I would not wish that school on others just because we are stuck with it. I hope a new school would be more functional than NCHS.

Sometimes, I wonder if there is a little jealousy going on here besides all the distance issues.

I could be wrong but at one time Pembroke Commons did attend NCHS which was less than 2 miles east. When District 203 grew south, those southern residents had to be bussed to NCHS while those in the old South East as in Pembroke Commons had to be bussed possibly 7 miles North West.

So boundaries did change in District 203 when it was growing. But residents seemed more accepting then. Why the revolution these days is beyond me?

Sharon,
I agree with you that the building does not make the school.
However, I have some issue with your statement that when a school district builds a school it should build the best possible. Define "best possible". It all comes down to balancing the cost of the building versus the cost of educating.

If 204 had been less concerned with building the state-of-the art school with all the bells and whistles, they might have been able to spend more money on experienced teachers and curriculum improvements for both schools.

Perhaps then, our students would be excelling as yours do in your crumbling buildings.

I have been reading this site many times a day and find that I become more and more upset. After moving three years ago from the May Watts area to the Fry area, I can speak for most of us in this area....it IS THE DISTANCE......We selected our home because there was no busing to ES,MS and the potential to walk the 1.5 miles to HS...It is that simple. My old neighbors always spoke highly of WV and I never had an issue with the school. I just wanted to be closer to all the schools since I had four children that will be in the ES,MS & HS all at the same time. As do most families in 203 and 204, we have incredibly busy schedules and the less time spent driving or waiting for your children to all get home the faster you can get to the next event. I too attended all the SB meetings two years ago and just recently, and I am in no way convienced that our SB is looking out for the best interests of our entire district. I do not want to be rushed into yet another losing situation. For the record, I voted NO to the new school and wanted them to go back to drawing board then, but no such luck. For those of you that want to make it about something more, that those of us in the "south" who feel we are "entitled too" whatever we want, perhaps you listened too closely to our new superintendant and started the name calling before anyone from our district even had a chance to speak. I do think the SB should have had the tax payers involved with the entire process and not just letting us speak to the problems "their prearranged" plans had. I await the next several weeks when more details of the BB site are determined and the results of the ground tests at the new HS site are released.

Why are we STILL talking about this? Hasn't the SB approved the boundaries? Let's move on already.

I don't understand why some of you won't accept that distance is indeed a factor. It becomes even more of a factor when the closer location was designated as your high school and then that designation was removed after you made your home purchase decision based on that fact. 203 doesn't have this problem because everyone knew what high school they were going to when they made thier home purchase. It hasn't changed. I made my home purchase to give my kids the same upbringing my parents gave me in Naperville. In fact not only did I live across the street from my elementary school, my parents moved so I could walk to my junior high school too. I wanted to give that same experience to my kids - why do some think there is more too it than that?

Posted by: TG Dad | February 25, 2008 05:26 PM

Looks like you can continue the family tradition "move so your children can go to the school that you want them too"

Sue the builder who convinced you that your kids will always go to Neuqua no matter what. Sounds like a great sales tactic that worked. When we moved here we didn't know what school our kids were going to go to, really didn't care. All we knew was that we lived in the 204 school district.

Either inexperience in purchasing a house or plain ignorance. Things change, especially in a growing city. Live and learn. Next time get a contract in writing as to where your kids will go to school. Good luck!

Moderator Jim....

Come on. Threatening to ban someone from the blog because they asked if a woman in the front row was BC?? You have allowed bloggers to call others racists, crybabies, etc. I even see that people have actually identified what subdivision others who have written editorials to the paper live in. I understand that there should be some filtering, but come'on...think you were too hard on TG.

For the record, I was at the meeting in the main room with a direct line of vision to the press table. I did not see BC or the gentleman sitting next to her (also from the press) sneer or act unprofessionally.

Moderator Jim: I take your point, but we try to keep this blog free of all obscene, racist stuff etc. However, that's not to say that we're infallible and the odd post doesn't sneak through. Having said that, perhaps I overreacted (sorry TG) but I was only protecting a member of my own staff.
'

I am sure those folks in Pembroke Commons would like the District boundary lines changed so their kids could go 6 miles south to the Taj Mahal of Schools instead of 6 miles North to a very old school.

Naperville North is in worse shape than Waubonsie Valley. Naperville Central is falling apart at the seams and needs 87 million to practically rebuild the school as it is so old and rotted out...practically everything in that school is crumbling!

So if Pembroke Commons and all the subdivisons in District 203 accept their fate, why can't District 204 subdivisions accept their fate and try to make the best out of the not so best situations that are dealt to us in life.


PS. When a school district builds a new school I would certainly hope it builds the best school possible and not one that equals old schools. We should always strive to improve! We should not be going backwards but forwards with our attempts of improvement. Does Boeing build newer and better planes or ones equal to the ones built in prior decades so all airlines can be equal in their fleets? Having said all that District 204 should invest some serious money into WVHS. If any money is left over from this rich district please feel free to donate it to NCHS and NNHS both in dire need of structural improvements. People need to appreaciate how good they have it compared to others.

At least you guys in District 204 have one Taj Mahal. We have no Taj Mahals in District 203...just 2 old crumbling schools and not even the Napergate Man has complained!

To Anonymous 5:05:

All the TG bashing was useful during the last boundary battle. They isolated one area, made them out to be snobs, and that justified their decision. In case you're new, all the options at the beginning (save for 1 which was completely illogical) had TG going to NVHS and Springbrook going to MVHS.

All of a sudden, well into the process (and at a contenious emotional meeting) this all changed. Some people reacted (but let's face it - they were baited by some of the SB members) and it became convenient to villify the TG residents.

So when I saw this whole thing play out again, it was easy to spot. We heard about some derogatory emails at one of the board meetings (there were similar references made in 06 by SB members), then TG gets painted in the press as elitists, etc. (this also happenend in 06).

Except this time, they couldn't bait us. Everyone acted with dignity and class. They came armed with well thought out presentations and irrefutable facts. BUT....we were all but ignored. And treated very rudely by the SB president and the new Super. What a shame.

So now in an effort to stop us from continuing our quest to be heard, they continue with the TG bashing.

It won't work this time.

I am trying to rise above the fray. It just kills me that TG has become the most hated community in town. Our kids are starting to get teased at school. This hatred is streaming down to our kids. TG is not the one's spewing hate. It is just so sad. And please tell the 30% of our minority neighbors in TG what the 'real reason' is that they are not happy being bussed to WVHS. Please enlighted them....We just don't get it. Numbers just don't lie...

I don't understand why some of you won't accept that distance is indeed a factor. It becomes even more of a factor when the closer location was designated as your high school and then that designation was removed after you made your home purchase decision based on that fact. 203 doesn't have this problem because everyone knew what high school they were going to when they made thier home purchase. It hasn't changed. I made my home purchase to give my kids the same upbringing my parents gave me in Naperville. In fact not only did I live across the street from my elementary school, my parents moved so I could walk to my junior high school too. I wanted to give that same experience to my kids - why do some think there is more too it than that?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 25, 2008 05:12 PM

Apology accepted. If more people, responded as you did, we would be much better off. You state that you don't agree that it has negative racial overtones. I think it does. We don't agree, but we can move on.

Thank you for taking the time to do something that you most certainly weren't obligated to do. So let's get back to the real issues here.

Total apologies! I was just asking because OTHERS on this blog had actually stated that they saw her doing something I witnessed someone do but I did not know what she looked like. I am VERY glad that its not the case as one would expect a reported to be unbiased I sincerely meant what I said when I said "I pray this is not true". If it had been her she would have owed us an aplogy but I am glad its not the case, truly and sincerely!

Moderator Jim: Apology accepted, TG, blog away - and thanks...maybe you could tell the others as well.

To African American Tall Grass Resident..

Sensitivity training??? I thought they were getting that by having to go to Waubonsie. You probably didn't mean to say "American Americans" in your post, but I appreciate it. Thats what we all are.

To African American Tall Grass Resident (and everyone else reading this blog):

As the author of the Rosa Parks reference, I apologize for the bad judgment in using this example. Although I do not agree it has negative racial overtones, it clearly minimizes the importance of what Ms. Parks did. Very poor judgment, and obviously, this boundary issue does not come close to the significance of our civil rights movement. I hope that you (and anyone else that I may have offended) will accept my sincere apologies.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 25, 2008 03:19 PM, Eric, and Roger,

I think so many of the posters here have lost credibility when suggesting it is distance when it has nothing to do with distance.
People have to discuss the real issues bothering them or the problem will never be solved.

Even the middle school kids in that notorious subdivision of Pembroke Commons are bussed to Lisle. I guess Lisle is not Aurora so no one cares if they have to go to Lisle whether it is 3 miles or 6 miles away. Pembroke Commons is a good subdivision to use as an example because it is very orgnaized and vocal and would not hesitate to speak up if bussing distances were a problem. And not one single voice from 300 homes ever arose about kids having to be bussed 6 miles(4 miles past Naperville Central) to get to Naperville North in the last decade since I have lived in town.

This subdivision is notorious for taking ads and attending council or board meetings in huge numbes when something bothers them. And ironically, distance to schools has never bothered them.

So one has to conclude with certainty distance is not the real issue in District 204 and Host Ted and Moderator Jim should ban all those distance issues which are a cover for the underlying deep rooted problems District 204 residents are afraid to openly discuss and confront on this blogging site.

Unless they do we will never solve the problems by discussing pretentious issues without confronting the real underlying issues bothering District 204 residents.

Can someone tell me what Brit Carlson looks like? Because I definitely witnessed a woman with bleach blond short hair in the front row making faces, rolling her eyes, and whispering to the person next to her when anyone spoke against the SB. Please don't tell me that was BC! if so, then she is absolutely biased and unprofessional. I pray that it was not so!


Moderator Jim: The womnan you describe is not her. To impy that one of our reporters - any reporter - would act that way is beyond the pale and, TG, puts you at risk of being suspended or even banned from this blog. You owe us an apology.

Can people please explain to me why there is so much bashing against Tall Grass? When there was bad behavior at the first set of boundary meetings how does everyone know that those bad behaviored people were from Tall Grass? I am from Tall Grass and attended those meetings, I was also sitting by several other Tall Grass neighbors and none of us got up, yelled or participated in anyway. As a matter of fact, I did not even recognize any of the bad behaviored bunch. Did anyone ask the unruley people where they were from? Or did the Naperville Sun just assume that those people were from Tall Grass. From what I can see, there has been a lot of slander on this blog and in the Naperville Sun newspaper regarding Tall Grass. Also, remember Fry has other neigborhoods besides Tall Grass. So, I am asking everyone, where are you getting your information? Why do you assume that everyone in Tall Grass (which contains 1000 homes) shares the same opinions. Another thing that Tall Grass bashers might want to consider is that Tall Grass is a very transient neighborhood. A lot of people in the neighborhood are from out of state and did not even live here 2 years ago. I am fine with WVHS and I live in Tall Grass. Imagine that. There are people in my neighborhood who are not happy with the changes, but the reasons I have heard all sound valid. Location is the largest and several have eighth graders and do not want there kids to have to switch to a rival school there sophmore year. Freshman year is a exciting time, you are loyal to your school. I could not have imagined being forced to switch like that when I was growing up. Also, the bridge is a factor, I know people are sick of hearing about it, but remember you all payed for it through your taxes. What I have not heard is that people do not want there kids to go to school because it is inferior. The only people I have heard that coming from is the school board.

ROGER and ERIC,
Sorry to bust your bubble but it IS distance that bothers us. If you had a choice of a few minutes or 40 minutes which would you choose? If you had a choice for your kid to walk vs bus, which would you choose? If your kids have been involved in NVHS events since kindergarten, which would you choose? Our kids swim at FOX at NVHS. The fine arts festival assigns us to NVHS. And all but our kids will at Scullen will go to NVHS. We fill very akin to NVHS and its 1.5 miles and about a 3 minute ride from our home and we are getting a pedestrian bridge so that our kids can walk. That is what its about. Please read between the lines. We are not the elitist bigots we are made out to be. We are a diverse family loving community being unfairly judged for what anyone else would argue in our place. I am extremely happy that my kids are not going to MVHS; those feedingn to that toxic site should be up in arms. I would never feel comfortable having my kids there. I have no issue with my kids going to WVHS save the 40 minute bus ride. Its the student body and teachers that make a school and we will make it awesome. We have really terrific kids from great families just like you.

I am highly offended that someone would compare Rosa Parks and the present situation of,the boundary issues.What am I missing? I Think that mabye some sensitivity training is in order here. I think most of us know what the real issue is here. Please do not bring Rosa Parks into this. It is very offensive and has Racist overtones. In case you did not know that was a very difficult time for American Americans and it should not be compared to this situation. Thank You.

Yes, District 203 has no qualms with busing times. As a graduate of NNHS 1984, North and Central are and were both excellent high schools. The population at both schools are comparable as is the education.

This is not the case with District 204. You have the "Taj mahal" NVHS and old WVHS that is nowhere as nice (of course it has been painted, oh I mean "updated").

But of course the schoolboard balanced the population. NVHS has 27% minorities and 1.6 low income students. WVHS has 42% minorities and 8.7 low income students. Oh, and don't forget MVHS will have 43% minorities and 7.8 low income students.

>It is puzzling to me why Napervillians in District 203 do not seem to care..
>I hope some bloggers can shed some light on this topic!

News akin to Napergate is just around the corner in both district 203 and 204...

Send lawyers, guns and money.

Eric,
It does seem very odd that District 203 residents have no issue with bussing distances while District 204 residents think it is grounds for warfare.

I have to agree with you that District 204 residents are using distance as an EXCUSE for what may really be bothering them. You hate to see so many phoney people on one thread. But it appears that way.

Napervillians are Napervillians whether they live in District 203 or District 204 so for them to be so diverged on their feelings of distance to a high school seems highly unusual! It raises a lot of questions! Possibly, this good be the subject of a NEW THREAD! Very good point, Eric!

To Eric: I think I can shed some light on this topic.

I've lived here since 1989. I live one block from the border between District 203 and 204. When I moved here I knew my kids would go to WVHS. It didn't concern me. All of the parents with high schoolers in the neighborhood loved the school and were very proud of it.

Then the district decided to build Neuqua. The problem was, they decided to build the most expensive high school in the state (the "Taj Mahal") and then send the most affluent kids there. On top of that, they let the WVHS building go downhill. This created some hard feelings for parents at WVHS. After the first referendum for the 3rd high school failed, the district tried to appease the "northern" residents by putting some money into upgrading WVHS. This is the 1MM worth of paint that has been refered to in this blog.

So now we have "northerners" moving to their shiny new school and some Neuqua people having to move to WVHS. Is there some payback going on here with all the bickering? Probably.

To the 203ers who don't understand what the problem is-- it is because you have two schools that are considered equal. Even though WVHS is a good school, the perception by many people, outside of WVHS parents, is that it is not as good as Neuqua. The past administrations did little to change the perception. Maybe it's the building, maybe its the student make up. Who knows?

Bottom line, the district was able to pass the last referendum because the Brach-Brodie site and the boundaries made a majority of people happy as witnessed by the YES vote.

I believe the board has not made progress in their effort to unite this district. In fact, I think they are going backwards. Even though changing the site and the boundaries may be legal, it is not ethical. It has made many people in this district angry, not just WE and TG. I fear we will never be able to pass another referendum. We will have a nice new school with no operating budget. Poor decisions by the administration in the past have created the great divide in this district. I urge them to Stop. Take the time to make the best decision for the future.

Since everyone cares so much, have you all written your letters of opposition to the train merger that is on the District 204 website? District 204 wrote a letter opposing the sale to increase local train traffic from two trains per day to as many as two per hour and so did I. Can all of you join us and try to stop more problems in our school district?

Just click on District Opposes Railroad Sale in the headlines on ipsd.org.

To TG needs damage control:
This being the first board meeting I and many others attended, I cannot speak for behavior of past attendees. My husband silently and respectfully attended the last round and he does agree there were some emotional outspoken in attendance including Brookdale and Spring Brook (uhh we weren't the ones in the orange shirts). Nonetheless, everyone was pretty focused and respectful this time around and it was an entirely different set of attendess this time. I hope they were some of the many transient neighbors who have since left our community. I did not see any deplorable behavior by any of my neighbors at this board meeting and we should not be held accountable for the transgressions of those who are no longer members of our community or who have thought better of past behavior. There was no snobbery or sense of entitlement among us. We clapped hard for those concerned about the safety of the new Metea site and the concerns of Peterson and Owen East. It's a shame that no one sees anything from our point of view. There is a lot of very intelligent discussions going on in this blog concerning costs, safety, health, inflated projections, pending BB settlement. These are not Fry issues but district issue and let's all focus on that and stop the Fry BS bashing. Enough already. It takes of off course. There are PLENTY of communities in the district concerned about what's going on and that includes friends I know in Ashbury and May Watts. Do you know it takes the May Watts kids over 30 minutes to get to Hill? Their projection for their travel time to Matea is as joke. They tell me the traffic is unbearable when they travel with commuters in the morning and bottleneck at River Road in the afternoon. They feel strongly that the boundaries should have kept traffic local and away from commuter traffic. Too bad they did not speak up at the SB meeting. Any from that area? Please speak up. Don't make TG the lone wolf in issues of commute times!

If each board member and administration employee also voted 6 times, it looks like it was probably 85-90% against. I will note that I think that the system prevented mutiple voting from one computer (I tried to cheat as well, so at least that is one thing we have in common).

Why is there always an assumption that any comment that is made against the Board or District must be from a resident of Tall Grass. There are individuals from a large number of neighborhoods that are not in agreement with the Board's actions (including myself). In fact, I have heard from (gasp) residents from the North side of 204 who do not want to attend Metea (for a number of reasons ranging from the envirenmental issues to bussing times and costs).

Perhaps the Board and District would like to paint a picture that everyone but Tall Grass supports their actions, but I doubt this is the case (are there others on this blog who feel this way or is this blog simply for people from Tallgrass and administration/ Board members).

If everyone will take a moment to look at how the school board "balanced" all the schools populations here is the data from the 2007 school report cards reflecting the new boundaries:

NVHS minorities 27% low income 1.6 population 3967

WVHS minorities 42% low income 8.7 population 2657

MVHS minorities 43% low income 7.8 population 2653

So for the few of you complaining how overcrowded NVHS is, come on over to WVHS there's plenty of room, maybe you can help balance our numbers for real!!!

Perhaps a referesher to "you must be Seriosly impressed with yourself".....

The 14th amendment's right to due process is not limited to "protected classes" (it guarantees due process and equal treatment to all citizens).

The Rosa Parks reference misses the point (and certainly is a much more important issue than this boundary issue). Perhaps a better illustration would be that a Republican President can not pass a bill to only tax democrats (even if the democrat was not a member of a protected class).

The District and Board have not given due process or equal treatment to to all of the residents of this community (and has isolated certain communities and then jumped on the hater bandwagon). I do not know if there is anyone who has the courage to pursue legal action against the district, but based on their history of conduct, it is not hard to invision a legitimate claim here (based on due process and a breach of fiduciary duty).

As to the comment about the Board being volunteers, I guess we get what we pay for (and in fact, costing us millions and millions of dollars and counting).

After reading through all the BS on this blog, I give a lot more credit to the lady who wrote the thank you letter to the Sun. At least she signed her name. You people need to grow up.

When is the march? I'm in!

To Anonymous who made the asinine Rosa Parks comparison.

Last time I checked, residents of Tall Grass are not a "protected class"!

>The person who wants to apologize to the SB is from one of the northern schools that will >attend MV, practically in their backyard...shocking, isn't it?

Yes, Janine Horne lives in Brookdale.

And the letter written by Owen Wavrinek the other day?
Owen is a former school board memeber who never saw a tax increase he couldn't adopt.

Let's face the fact...the poll was 1,000 votes. I voted 6 times! The poll is not VALID! Stop hanging onto a thread!

I found this post by a lady named Maryann on the library thread. I thought it belongs here. It does bring to light whether distance is what is really bothing District 204 Napervillians. It seems like Disctrict 203 folks are also Napervillians and they seem to care less about distance and it has never been an issue in that District. Below is what Maryann posted yesterday:

__________________________________________________________________

Most Napergatians, I suspect live in District 203 and do not blog on District 204. They don't care if there kids go to Naperville North or Naperville Central. They are both excellent schools. Kids are bussed from that famous Pembroke Commons subdivision to Naperville North which is over 6 miles away. Naperville Central is only 2 miles from that subdivision! No one seems to care! That should tell you that the issues in District 204 are not about distance as everyone is pretending but about a belief or perception that Naperville is better than Aurora and Nequa possibly being a better school than Waubonsie.

Host Ted caters to this group piling bullsh*t higher and deeper each day with their nonsense blogs that are never telling the truth about the real reasons ANGERING THEM! If distance was a real reason, Pembroke Commons which is by the far the most organized subdivision in Naperville, would have burned District 203 down by now! But distance was never the issue. It is the cover for all the underlying real issues that upset them(District 204 folks).

__________________________________________________________________


For those who may not be aware Pembroke Commons was the birthplace of both the Spring Green and Napergate Movements that reveresed many City Council decisions. Almost all the leaders were from that subdivision. They are notorious fighters. Yet, it did not bother them the least bit that their kids were assigned to a school 4 miles further away than the nearest High School.

It is puzzling to me why Napervillians in District 203 do not seem to care how many miles their kids are bussed, but those in District 204 seems to think it is a Battle Cry for War!

I hope some bloggers can shed some light on this topic!

To NAP DAD:
According to the 2007 report card, FRY is 71.2 White, 2.6 Black, 1.8 Hispanic, 18.8 Asian, .3 Native American and 3.3 Multi Racial. Since when are African Americans the only one's considered a minority? I believe the gentleman who spoke of the 'de-facto segragation' was Asian Indian.
And if you are interested,
White Eagle is 65.2 White, 3.1 Black, 2.5 Hispanic, 26.4 Asian, 0 Native American, 2.8 Multi Racial.
Though not the most diverse in the community it is similar to the overall blend of the district.

"The SB and Administration have brought ALL of this on themselves. I think those citizens that are getting what they want understand this, but they are very worried that others may put a stop to the nonsense." posted by midnight rambler...


A part of me would actually be fine if they either held off or didn't build the 3rd high school at all. I guess I would be placed in the "getting what she wants" category based on my location in the North. The truth is, I am not overly excited about not having my younger children attend WV as my older one has. They are scheduled to attend Metea under the new boundaries. There will be a lot of adjustments and "growing pains" similar to those that occurred when NV kids split off of WV and even Naperville North/Central split off.
I voted for the 3rd high school based on the numbers and the testimonies from friends with children attending NV and Scullen M.S. We never have experienced extreme overcrowding, lunches at breakfast hours or staircases designated as only "up" or "down". My "southern" :) friends have talented kids that played years of travel sports or were involved in dance or choral groups only to NOT make their high school teams because of the ridiculous amount of competition (200 plus kids trying out for 20 spots at best)!It simply seemed better to live in a district with three high schools that have manageable numbers thus better opportunities for #204 kids vs. two high schools with overcrowded situations and makeshift portables. That is why we voted "yes".I did not vote yes because my kids might get to go to some new school OR because they would get to stay at WV.... I've lived in this area long enough to know better than that..growth ALWAYS brings change.

I do understand why some folks are upset about the location due to the travel time but I guess you just have to decide what is more important to you...to continue to have packed, overcompetitive schools that are relatively close(1.5 miles)or to have to spend a little more time (roughly 5-6 miles...this is what we travel now) to get to a smaller school with the same outstanding curriculum with better overall academic,athletic,or club opportunities due to smaller populations.
I would just caution folks to think long and hard about what they "REALLY" want for their kids because they just might end up getting it.Good luck to you and your families...I truly mean it!I've had enough with the blogs..

The person who wants to apologize to the SB is from one of the northern schools that will attend MV, practically in their backyard...shocking, isn't it?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 25, 2008 10:55 AM

"I would guess that at the time, 75% of the population thought is was okay to ask Ms. Parks to sit at the back of the bus (but fortunately our system is not designed to sacrifice the rights of a minority to appease a larger group). "

my response:

I know you aren't comparing being assigned to Waubonsie or Metea to Rosa Parks being told to sit at the back of the bus? Are you?!

I guess we should have marches now through the streets of Naperville.

How insulting!!

To Anonymous:

Are you really trying tie your situation with the situation of Rosa Parks. Wow.

>Yeah, that woman has SOME NERVE sending such a positive letter stating her personal opinions >with regards to the countless hours our "highly paid" volunteer school board members devote.

We would be in a lot better shape if many of these idiots had not volunteered but what is even more disturbing are the countless administrators making more than a 100K a year who can not be trusted to be good stewards of our money or provide accurate information.

I have a question about the "brown noser" who thinks people should apologize to the SB.

Where does she live? And how is her area affected by the site location and boundaries?

I bet she received an outcome that she favors.

How people all over this district can turn a blind eye to the conduct of this SB is beyond me - regardless of whether you are happy or not over the boundaries. It seems inconceivable that one could not have noticed the squandering of taxpayer money and the unfair methods used in the boundary process.

The SB and Administration have brought ALL of this on themselves. I think those citizens that are getting what they want understand this, but they are very worried that others may put a stop to the nonsense.

So we keep getting called names, etc. in an effort to stop any organized opposition. But I think it's too late for that. If anything is really funny at this point, it's the frantic effort to stop the inevitable.

THOSE ARE THE REALLY SELFISH PEOPLE! They are getting what they wanted, even if tax dollars are wasted, the boundary criteria was unfairly applied, and an unsafe site far removed from the student population was chosen.

To Don't cry TA:

First, I very much doubt that 75% of the community is happy with the Board's decisions. Regardless, is it the goal of a school board and school administration to make decisions based on aligning and polarizing of neighborhoods? I would guess that at the time, 75% of the population thought is was okay to ask Ms. Parks to sit at the back of the bus (but fortunately our system is not designed to sacrifice the rights of a minority to appease a larger group).

Perhaps the decision to build a new school should be based on the majority vote of a district, but creating boundaries that do not make sense for AT LEAST 25% of the district (based on travel times, location and splitting of schools) should not be a political process. This is especially true when the District has subordinated ALL of its original criteria to having construction finished by Fall of 2009 (and quite frankly, just wanting to have this thing off their plate).

Defining boundaries and choosing locations of schools should not be a political excercise based on the advice of outside PR consultants...it should be based on following due process and balancing the interests of ALL of the children in the district (not creating a result that benefits the majority at the expense of the minority). By its own admission, this administration and school board has made a decision that it feels is right for "most" of the children in the district. I imagine that you (like each of the Board member's children) are the "most", so I certainly understand your perspective.

Yes, boundaries are always going to be emotional, but why has the Board and admin turned a very structured and deliberate process (up until two months ago) into a rushed excercise that has substantial risk of again blowing up in their face. Why is the land that was just two years ago labeled by the Board as certain too be too dangerous to build a school on suddenly acceptable with just days (not months that you would expect for a school site) of "due diligence". Why is it okay to accept legal fees and a significant judgment from BB of 10-20 million dollars (expected to be closed by mid March) as opposed to engaging in a reasonable settlement with BB for this land.

However, instead of trying to answer some of these questions and debating the substance of the decisions made by the Board and administration, our community is collectively calling each other cry babies and fighting amongst itselves (looks like the PR consultsants earned their pay).

"There is a letter to the editor today from some brown-noser named Janine Horne who suggests we should apologize to the district 204 board and administrators!

We should apologize to District 204 for their incompetence, mismanagement, and abuse of the public trust?

What has this woman been smoking? "

Posted by: Time to uncover the truth | February 25, 2008 09:13 AM

Yeah, that woman has SOME NERVE sending such a positive letter stating her personal opinions with regards to the countless hours our "highly paid" volunteer school board members devote. I mean...she even signed her REAL name!!What kind of a society do we live in that allows someone to do this?! For the love of .....

After reading this blog, most of which is idiotic, selfish, illogical, distorted, threatening, and unhelpful bluster(on all sides of the several issues 'discussed'), if I were on the board, I wouldn't listen to you people either! Because you don't deserve to be listened to.

Instead I would offer you a cookie and some milk and ask you to please sit down and let the grown-ups talk.

Sheesh!

Vicky, you said "In south 204 in particular kids move in and out all the time." If it is truth, then it was very wrong. We need to stand up to stop this in 204! We cannot put the "dividing children" to our school system permanantly.

Yes, it is true, changing school is happening everywhere, such as when people move and building of newer schools. But it is still not part of a normal life, that’s why it is called “change”. That’s why lots of family chooses to not move in order to let their children stay at same school! But now, we are going to inflict this change to be a part of our children’s normal lives, as a result of the new boundaries.

Children are spending more than half activity time of the day in school. They are in a very important physical and mental growth time, especially for middle school students, more importantly known to us as teenagers. As parents, we all know how crucial it is to have a good school/family to support their growing. We also know how important the friendship is to them! You may already find out they can talk to something to their friend/classmate, but not to their parents.

The new boundaries are not help/support our children metal development with providing health environment, but instead, it would divide children to different groups. Think about when they would cheer for different high school sport team. How would they feel belong to together? How would the teacher to do with this complicated situation? It is not only for one time case, each year it would compose to the student who would go to different high schools!

All parents, as just like you and me, willing to do whatever we can to provide better school environment (physically and mentally), and that’s why we build new third high school. Let’s work together, we can find a perfect solution and we will, because we have same goal and mission!

There is a letter to the editor today from some brown-noser named Janine Horne who suggests we should apologize to the district 204 board and administrators!

We should apologize to District 204 for their incompetence, mismanagement, and abuse of the public trust?

What has this woman been smoking?


I have spent hours reading everyone's posted comments. The only comments that were directed at individuals were comments that everyone should object to such as name calling and suggesting vandalism to target individuals. It appears to me this blog is being used as a mob mentality by people who are unaffected by the boundary changes and are being childish and abusive to other families of district 204. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Think about what you are saying, is it for the common good of district 204? Or is it just good for you?

It seems to me this is a very emotional issue for everyone involved. It also appears a lot of people who live in southern Naperville do not want thier children attending WVHS. Why aren't everyone involved fighting to improve WVHS so people will want to go there? It seems all of our children in District 204 deserve all the advantages of a "state of the art" school.

We all want the best for our families. Let's work together to make sure everyone is happy. We pay the taxes, we should all make 204 the best district with the best schools and facilities for everyone no matter where you live!

I'm confused about the data the SB uses to make its decisions. If the public input is just window dressing then why bother asking us in the first place. Here are two case studies creating my confusion...

The SB decides to approve the Eola site since 70% of the people seemed to like the Eola site (based on the straw pole Glawe does at home while reading email). So community input does seem to influence the SB... or does it??

Stay tuned because when the boundary proposals are then put out there just a few short weeks later we don't hear anything from the Glawe poll (assumption is that the emails were not 70% positive) and despite a 70% negative vote by the Sun poll and significant community input not to rush into this decision the same SB team still plows ahead and approves the boundaries.

It is now pretty clear that emails and polls are cited when they agree with the SB's preconcieved plans and ignored when the community feedback is not consistent with the SB plan.

When will this SB wake up and realize that they represent the community? Parents are critical to the education of their children and their opinions should count when decisions are made. The SB does seem to be somewhat willing to listen to us when they need our votes for a referendum or to get elected into one of the seats.

Its time to put some SB members in place who listen and respond to the community outside of elections and referendums. Any volunteers on the SB willing to give up their seats to make room?

Thanks for the laughs folks. I heard about this blog from a neighbor and was laughing as I was readign it. Grown-ups (in theory) calling each other names like your all outside for recess. You all deserve a detention.

Again, thanks for the laughs.

"I do wish everyone would remember when quoting the Sun poll that people weren't stopped randomly on the street. They needed to make an effort themselves to participate. Most people happy or indifferent with the outcome did not bother. "
Posted by: Anonymous | February 23, 2008 11:34 PM

I think this is an extremely valid point. I actually wish we could take a momment to do a scientific poll.

To PARENT OF 204. Are you kidding? Your statement ("The new school boundary divided the student in middle school which would cause damage on our young teenage mental development")is ludicrous. I have heard all kinds of statements on this board but yours is really out in the Twilight Zone. In south 204 in particular kids move in and out all the time. I doubt if many of them are "permanantly damaged". If you are so set in your kids staying with their classmates from Kindergarden through 12th grade, I suggest you find some small town where the odds of that are more likely.

Never argue with an idiot, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

In response to "Taxes"

Thank you for your response. This gives me some type of picture. Now, as you have seen, even your numbers will be questioned by others. But once again, thank you.

Don't Cry TA....I'll buy you some tissues.

Just so happens that still the majority (75%) of the district is happy about the IPSD SB's decision!!

"It seems to me that after voting to give the board millions of dollars the taxpayers of ditrict 204 are split into two groups: those who are relieved to be doing as well as (or, as badly as) they did before, and those who are worse off. I guess the people who will see an improvement are only the lawyers , consultants and politicians who put as in this mess. Finally, we the taxpayers in district 204, deserve what we got since we voted "yes" for the referendum and we also voted for this bunch of incompetent mediocrities to populate the board. "

Posted by: 204boardstinks | February 23, 2008 01:57 PM

....this reminds me of the old parent standby when the kids are fighting and only looking out for themselves ....she makes a peanut butter sandwich and chooses "Bobby" to cut it into two halves. Bobby looks very triumphant and smug until she tells "Janie" she will get to choose which half she wants first.... Bobby would now like a "do-over".
You get the idea................

As we sit on the dawn of the potential 15-20 million dollar judgment against our 204 school district for the devaluation of the BB land (caused by the Board and District), please take the time to contemplate what the damages are going to be for the devalaution of the property values in the communities that did not get the benefit of due process by the Board/District (literally hundreds and hundreds of millions).

In response to:


Wasn't AraMark one of the district 204 vendors that gave money to 204 the Kids (the vote YES propaganda machine)?

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/809975,6_1_NA24_JAIL_S1.article

A company hoping to win another contract at the DuPage County Jail has donated thousands of dollars to elected county officials. Aramark, a Philadelphia-based company that has provided the jail's food service for 21 years, has poured $14,770 into campaign coffers of State's Attorney Joe Birkett, Sheriff John Zaruba, County Board Chairman Bob Schillerstrom and others since 1999, according to the Illinois State Board of Elections.


YES....AND SO WAS LAID LAW (the "independent" school district assessor of the new bus times that, even in their "unbiased" opinion, has opined that bus travel time average would drop a whopping 3 minutes---from 26 minutes to 23 minutes (not the 1/3 cut you would expect). Pretty good location choice for a 150 million dollar new high school).

But, why would you expect integrity when the Super bought his house right near the location of the new high school location).

Let the good times roll!

No child left behind? Only missed by a few thousand.

I would like to know why D204 is spending an extra $10,000,000 to rush the building of the 3rd high school? That is a completely unnecessary expenditure in my opinion.

Wasn't AraMark one of the district 204 vendors that gave money to 204 the Kids (the vote YES propaganda machine)?

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/809975,6_1_NA24_JAIL_S1.article

A company hoping to win another contract at the DuPage County Jail has donated thousands of dollars to elected county officials. Aramark, a Philadelphia-based company that has provided the jail's food service for 21 years, has poured $14,770 into campaign coffers of State's Attorney Joe Birkett, Sheriff John Zaruba, County Board Chairman Bob Schillerstrom and others since 1999, according to the Illinois State Board of Elections.

IPSD 204 school board needs to put children first. The new school boundary divided the student in middle school which would cause damage on our young teenage mental development.

The bottom line is that the bad or good scores, the length of the bus routes, or the balance of the student population all can be compromised! But you cannot separate the student to different schools. This is like their home and family away from home, and they all belong together!

All elementary school students must be in the same middle school, and all middle school students must be in the same high school.

I do wish everyone would remember when quoting the Sun poll that people weren't stopped randomly on the street. They needed to make an effort themselves to participate. Most people happy or indifferent with the outcome did not bother.

I know so many people who didn't even know there was a school board meeting last week! I have friends who live in the NV area that are south of 103rd who didn't even sweat/ think about the boundary recommendations! They aren't following any of it! These are otherwise active, educated, informed citizens who frankly are on information overload in their lives and sift through what needs their attention and what doesn't. Not saying it is right or wrong, just saying it like it is. My point is that if a poll were taken more arbitrarily at the mall or elsewhere in town, you would find how many people are indeed happy with it all. The 75% is greatly skewed.

Wheels that are getting the oil they need don't squeak.

Dear Taxes

I have seen some very different numbers presented by the Vote Yes people. Lower impact, of course.

Could you explain how much of the increases you show are because of the costs of the new high school and how much they are because of other factors?

Do you suppose you could do a 'compare and contrast' and tell us what assumptions are different between the two cases?

That would not only help educate readers of this blog, but I am afraid if you dont present all the facts, someone might accuse you of distorting the truth, or being deliberately misleading.

And we wouldnt want that would we?

I am in favor of the new school. I am one of those members of the conspiracy. I contributed to the Vote Yes campaign. But as a supreme sacrifice, for the good of the community...I will get in the front of the line trying to PREVENT the new school IF....

I can have assurances from all those voting "no" and arguing for delay on the new school will agree to have their kids take all impacts from overcrowding. They will have their kids take classes in trailers, not my kids. They will agree to have their kids not participate in extracuriculars so that there will be more room for mine. I want my kid's high school to operated exactly as it would with the smaller number of students provided by the third school. If there are any negative impacts, your kids will take the pain.

Deal ?

>>I always hear our taxes are going to skyrocket. Can someone translate this for me?

The big tax increases come from the passage of Education Fund Referendums. This is the money needed to operate the schools. If the district has no money to operate the 3rd HS, then another Ed Fund referendum will need to be passed or the district will be required to reign in some spending. The cost of the new school is substantial but the real money comes from the ongoing operating costs because these costs always go up. Additionally, the district could start to get squeezed financially in about 3 years if property values decline. Assessors generally use a 3-year average when calculating home values. This could result in the district needing even more money if they do not get a handle on spending.

If you assume that home values will not decline in our area and continue to increase 6% annually then the taxes on a $300,000 home would be as follows:

2006 - $6,850
2007 - $7,100
2008 - $8,550
2009 - $8,800
2010 - $9,350

Given that very few homes can be purchaesd in our area for $300,000, the following are the numbers for a $600,000 home:

2006 - $13,700
2007 - $14,200
2008 - $17,100
2009 - $17,725
2010 - $18,700

The above assumes several factors based on past Ed Fund Referendums. The numbers are rounded and assume factors such as the passage of a 2009 Ed Fund Referendum of 65 cents, retroactive to the 2008 tax levy, which you pay in 2009.

These numbers do not consider any new taxes or tax increases from the City, County, Park, Library, etc. Your actual taxes may be even higher given that some of these entities have already passed or are planning tax increases.

School taxes are approximately 72% of your tax bill depending on where you live. Taxes may be even higher for Will and Aurora and Bolingbrook.

fd:

I thought the reason for a staggered opening (moving only the "going to be" frosh-soph) was so as not to have to move the "going to be junior-seniors who are more tied to their school. I don't think the intent is to do a trial run before they have to open up to all grades.

They aren't moving the classes of 2010,2011 to WVHS from either.

It seems to me that after voting to give the board millions of dollars the taxpayers of ditrict 204 are split into two groups: those who are relieved to be doing as well as (or, as badly as) they did before, and those who are worse off. I guess the people who will see an improvement are only the lawyers , consultants and politicians who put as in this mess. Finally, we the taxpayers in district 204, deserve what we got since we voted "yes" for the referendum and we also voted for this bunch of incompetent mediocrities to populate the board.

To pal who wrote:
Dr Y? at 11:12 PM
Thanks for explaining your earlier (1:04 PM) commments. I was really wondering how huge the revolt was. Now I understand that when you referred to "a number of areas" it means you and some friends. I'm sorry you feel that way about volunteering. What is yourand your friends maximum mileage limit for helping at your kids' school anyway?
Posted by: pal | February 23, 2008 07:22 AM
---
I am sure the many friends in different areas are an accurate depiction. Note again these are frontliners contributing significant time. So as they slow down, hopefully local people will step up. I respect those who would continue on but most have busy schedules, work, etc. (to pay those taxes), and will unfortunately have to cut back. This is a major reason why proximity is important. I am sure the local parents near the destination schools will fill the void or just keep doing what they should be doing today. Thanks for volunteering if you do. You are important people who simply do not get credit but do get a lot of work while others benefit.


To pal who wrote:
Dr Y? at 11:12 PM
Thanks for explaining your earlier (1:04 PM) commments. I was really wondering how huge the revolt was. Now I understand that when you referred to "a number of areas" it means you and some friends. I'm sorry you feel that way about volunteering. What is yourand your friends maximum mileage limit for helping at your kids' school anyway?
Posted by: pal | February 23, 2008 07:22 AM
---
I am sure the many friends in different areas are an accurate depiction. Note again these are frontliners contributing significant time. So as they slow down, hopefully local people will step up. I respect those who would continue on but most have busy schedules, work, etc. (to pay those taxes), and will unfortunately have to cut back. This is a major reason why proximity is important. I am sure the local parents near the destination schools will fill the void or just keep doing what they should be doing today. Thanks for volunteering if you do. You are important people who simply do not get credit but do get a lot of work while others benefit.


To anonymous (sb member) who wrote:
While they are out. I wonder if someone will remove the "T" and the "GR" off their subdivision sign AGAIN.
Posted by: anonymous | February 23, 2008 12:03 PM
----
That was funny - I know even though it cost the association thousands of dollars, people were enjoying the creative thinking and snickering - even the kids loved it. However, how much more childish is this than anything those TG people did. If I am not mistaken, the SB said "walkers would remain walkers", and then declared "but TG will not be walkers" when the bridge was already planned and if not delayed by a developer would have been used last Spring by students. So TG did not get what they asked for in a very professional manner...to have the SB meet its own criteria. They lost then and now on the same issue - walkers declared non-walkers. What person would agree with the SB under such circumstances if they lived near the bridge for example. Come on, you would all do the same thing when you ask politely then get ignored, slandered, and deliberately singled out for doing what the SB members would do themselves under the same scenario. How childish is that?

Also, to your comment about needing professional help after the term "the carnage", etc. was used above:

I call $350 million for a school that would be nice to have as a replacement for WVHS - a perfectly good school with strong academics - unlike you "child-like" feel/think - IS a carnage on the taxpayers. The foced busing of so many so long is also a carnage. And there will be carnage based on what I am hearing in terms of delays, hassles, disruptions, but from concerned citizens from across the district. They are all riding buses longer distances.

Oh, and using the excuse of low numbers of parents showing up at the SB meeting when it was filled to capacity with people locked out by armed policemen - is childish both in the deliberate setup of the venue and the use of the numbers afterwards to imply there is only a small concerned group.

Again, the Naperville Sun Poll was 75% NO to this latest boundary proposal. You don't get it anymore, and your efforts to single out TG is ...well...aaaaaah...childish, too.

I hope TG, Watts, Brookdale, WE, Owen, etc. hit you with everything they have over this waste of taxpayers money, so you can do your little Social Engineering experiment..oh high masters...our leaders "who know best". This is America afterall, not the FSU.

Living in 204 we will always have ENOUGH volunteers. Good thing you guys are stepping down because who would want our kids exposed to people who behave this way. Sit back at home and watch…..Guess what all the organizations will survive without you ! There will always be someone who will step up and won’t mind the commute into AURORA!

"What is the mission of the SB...are they fulfilling it pertaining to this issue? If students, parents and communities want to have their HS fully completed for all grades before opening why can't that be accomplished. What's wrong with wanting that...it would be a win, win for all. "
Posted by: fd | February 23, 2008 10:48 AM

..and how is it a win win for all. Do you need to by some time, fd? Obviously the school does.

Did you complain about this when Neuqua did the same thing? It took Neuqua 3 years until it had all grade levels there.

to "margaret called"

While they are out. I wonder if someone will remove the "T" and the "GR" off their subdivision sign AGAIN.

How about all those who want a consultant to revisit the boundary situation, pool together their own funds and pay for it. I'm all for it. Of course, I won't be contributing.

I always hear our taxes are going to skyrocket. Can someone translate this for me? What does that equate to in dollars and cents? Please use the old $300,000 house scenario. What is a ball park estimate as to how high our taxes will go?

Anybody, anybody?

What is the mission of the SB...are they fulfilling it pertaining to this issue? If students, parents and communities want to have their HS fully completed for all grades before opening why can't that be accomplished. What's wrong with wanting that...it would be a win, win for all.

To Anonymous 9:00:

It's clear there is a frantic effort to force this very illogical proposal (site and boundaries) down the throats of others.

You're order the "grow up, move on and learn to deal with change" actually looks like panic.....

Panic that others might stop this runaway train.

This SB must be held accountable.

To: Anonymous 7:39 PM

I live in Oakhurst North and I'd be happy to give you my address if that would make you feel better. I am not a school board member.

Yep, it's all one big conspiracy!!! Give me a break. There were not 450 people at that meeting as I watched half the meeting on the first floor and half on the second floor. Basement? I didn't realize the building had a basement. The door I entered on the north side of the building had plenty of parking and no police officers. Don't suppose you knew about that enterance. The fact is we are all lucky we were able to speak. The refferendum was passed 2 years ago. The board does not have a secret agenda as you try to say. Those board members have kids attending WV, MV and NV.

Here's the difference between you and me. I built my house knowing my kids were going to go to WV and I would have been happy no matter where my kids went. I moved here for the school district not a particular school. As far as the distance goes, correct me if I'm wrong but they are offering you bus service correct? Didn't you ever ride a bus to school or is that too below your kids. When I grew up I had a school less then a mile away and I had go get on a bus 1 hour each way in the morning and afternoon.

So once again (but you still aren't hearing it) get over it and move on!! You aren't the majority in the district and keep making yourself look worse and worse.

I just received a call from a resident who lives near the proposed new school site. 3 people are standing on the shoulder of Eola Road next to a black SUV with hand made signs that say FREE TOXIC DIRT!

>>There are 100 year old schools out there, that with a little remodeling, can last 150 years.

Consistently one of the best schools in the state is New Trier.
2007-2008 enrollment was approximately 4198.

http://www.newtrier.k12.il.us/records/enrollment.htm

The aesthetics of the building and the number of students have nothing to do with the education a student receives. In fact, I would argue the opposite. A $150,000,000 high school (plus the millions more in interest which must be paid back) only buys bricks and mortar and makes law firms and construction companies rich. It does not buy any books, hire any teachers, or pay for any computers. If you are draining the pocketbooks of residents to build unnecessary buildings at exorbitant costs there is less money available for the things that really count, especially when there are more cost effective options such as building an addition or utilizing a few portable classrooms.

Remember, the district has no money to operate the new high school, that will require another referendum and your taxes will skyrocket again.

If we had built an addition at NVHS, everyone would have been happy with the boundary outcome and the addition would have been ready for use by Fall of 2008.

Just like the fake $10,000 bell at NVHS, district 204 squanders your money like drunken monkeys.


"We and friends feel that long distance is a problem and feel we will not do as much, and neither are some of the farther out neighborhoods doing as much. It is a natural thing. And I feel for those bought close to a school so they could volunteer more, then get sent off to a far away school. And the kids will not die if parents are not volunteering and donating money. It's a fact - oh my chance..."live with it".

Posted by: Dr. Y? | February 22, 2008 11:12 PM

Wow! I would go ANY distance for my kids...and do.That's a great attitude Dr. Y?....how does that make your kids feel to know that you will support their activities and school.... as long as YOU are not inconvenienced too much! I can't believe you actually admitted that!

To Anonymous 5:56pm yesterday who wrote:

"For all the people who say stop whinning and move on. Be careful what you wish for. We all know this SB has a history of saying one thing and doing another. I wonder if you still would be saying that if you get directly impacted. Would you still be supporting the SB. I bet not. Then who would be WHIINING NOW. You perhaps."
____

I was directly impacted and I'm disgusted by your behavior even still. Things change so to say the SB says one thing and does another may be true, but things change as do circumstances.

I'm not whinning now and I wasn't whinning 2 years ago like a certain neighborhood who still doesn't seem to have learned their lesson. Therefore I think I have every right to point fingers at the immature way you're acting because I was affected as well. To continue to act in your "I don't like it until I get my way" attitude is ridiculous. I'll say it like so many others have, grow up, move on and learn to deal with change.

What are the results of the Midwest Generation plants environmental impact studies....has hazardous waste, ground water contamination etc been identified? Where can I obtain test results? Have all exposures been mitigated? Will ongoing remediation be required while school is ongoing? When will the Illinois and federal EPA give a recommendation on the safety of the site? Its my understanding that the big dig will begin April 4...is that still a viable date?

To all those out there who think that an independent consultant would only bring the same type of decision, (i.e. some neighborhoods will be unhappy), what are YOU afraid of with just trying? Maybe your situation would change?

It isn't much money to hire consultants to establish some trust back with those who feel that the SB didn't optimize the criteria and appeared to have hidden agendas and favorites. So I'd be willing to bet my house that the outcome would be different because there are boundary scenarios that do better with the SB's own criteria. Yes, someone will be unhappy with the objective new plan, but you can't argue logic for too long. The approved boundary plan defies logic in some cases, doesn't do well with the criteria, and people are upset by that.

Speaking of other boundary plans?

The real problem now is that this site selection is messing up the ability to create a plan that minimizes bussing and railroad crossings. So I think the first thing that the independent consultants would come back saying to the SB is "Why the heck are you putting the new site that far north - it's making it impossible to minimize transportation. You need to obtain a southwest site."

Dr Y? at 11:12 PM
Thanks for explaining your earlier (1:04 PM) commments. I was really wondering how huge the revolt was. Now I understand that when you referred to "a number of areas" it means you and some friends. I'm sorry you feel that way about volunteering. What is yourand your friends maximum mileage limit for helping at your kids' school anyway?

To Dr. Y? who wrote:
nosuchthngasneutral,
Let me think about this...hhhmmmm....$100,000 for consultants versus $350 million....huuummmmm....aaaaaaahhhhhhh....dah!
Posted by: Dr. Y? | February 22, 2008 12:09 PM

You idiot - this was meant for the financially astute guy named Get Some Backbone.

To pal who wrote:
To say that "a number of areas" are going to turn their back on their children's eduction and no longer volunteer simply because they are at a different school sounds rather irresponsible doesn't it? I for one am not buying in to your negative, gloom and doom posting.
Posted by: pal | February 22, 2008 02:29 PM
We and friends feel that long distance is a problem and feel we will not do as much, and neither are some of the farther out neighborhoods doing as much. It is a natural thing. And I feel for those bought close to a school so they could volunteer more, then get sent off to a far away school. And the kids will not die if parents are not volunteering and donating money. It's a fact - oh my chance..."live with it".

To Anonymous who wrote:
Glad my kids won't be attending NVHS sardine can. I say end this all and let those TG residents go to NVHS if they want. It comes down to geography and distance, does it really? You'd rather your kids go to a high school with 3900 kids then a high school with 2600 kids? Really?

.....Wait, you might get stopped by a train, hope you obey those crossing signals and don't get hit, I've been driving for 25 years and those train tracks can be so dangerous. But that too far and scary for you, guess you'll have to miss your straight A student being a starter on the soccer team.
Sorry I'm not making the connection?
Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 03:21 PM

I suspect most TG parents would say something to the effect that "we chose to live here near NVHS, a crowded school where our students would have immense competition, might not get straight A's and may not make the sports teams...but we accepted that possibility".

Regarding trains, I think they would say it's a new ball game with CN deal. +30 trains a day, and hundreds of parent and student drivers going with rush hour traffic, crossing double tracks (CN is adding a track) that raise the risk of a late student or mom driving through gates or not stopping in time for a queue of vehicles, talking on cell phones, etc.

To Get Some Backbone:

The idea of using consultants is to bring credibility. A first step to trust.

The second step to trust - assuring to the taxpayers that there is no conflicts of interest by having consultants chosen by non-admin/SB personnel - a citizen committee.

Step 3 of trust - the results are checked and balanced by the citizen committee, shared with the public in raw form, then reviewed with the district and SB.

Step 4 of trust - prsent the impact of the results to the public and the implications.

Step 5 of trust - make a proposal to the district and accept feedback for a period in proportion to the project size/impact on the taxpayers.

Step 6 of trust - read the feedback and be open to new ideas, avoid holding on to old ways and traditions, be practical and outwardly reasonable to your customers (the taxpayers).

Step 7 of trust - make a decision but make concessions to those most hurt by the decision, as an outward appeal for and show of fairness.

Now tell me which step did our SB do? Give me just one and back it up with support as to how they did it.

There are other pillars of trust, but you get the idea. The only thing being thought about today is how to isolate some neighborhoods and make this a smaller problem than it is. Unfortunately the lid will not stay on this time.


To "Make It" and the "Move On" croud and other blind, deaf, and Dumb!
I am a open minded person and try to figure out where most are coming from. Some people are happy and some are not! I will never get people who will sit and let blatant fraud go by and do anying. Do nothing because they are unaffected? To you I say, sleep well and wait for the next beg for money (referendum). For those who think this is a done deal, just wait!

There are multiple points of questionable issues that will be raised. And Reggie, yes this church has got major explaining to do!

*Metzger was right! The church did hold out for money that was too good to pass up. For those who do not know, Metzger stated that the church would only sell if money was thrown at it. Well I heard that is just what they did! This property is worth less than 1/2 of what they are a paying for it. They never had a multiple value assessment done to determine actual property value. I guess 8+million is no big deal to this distrct. Hey, it is just another referendum to ask for, oh I mean, fool the voters again!
*The word id that this church is in line to "get" the 25 acres previously purchased by the district (Brock-Brody) at a discounted price. Just more added to the overall "purchase price". Money that the district is placing into "offset costs" to build the school. One more perk for our church and friends of school district 204.
*There supposedly was an enviromental test done (or a partial one)in the mid 90s by the district, when discussions began on NVHS, on this site. It was stopped because there was too much to even begin a discussion on a purchase.

To the person who said that those against this site should stop and move on because the distrct "voted on a new HS with no site named", that sounds like a board member. There are laws on the books that can show the SB has been acting in a highly questionable manner. If that is acceptable to you, go join this church that this school is proposed to be built on. You will likely find Metzger, our wonderful super, and Clake sitting in the front row of Sunday service. I bet that it will be a sermon on integrity.

To Anonymous who wrote:
I am Anonymous 11:28. Someone asked if i was a school board member. No I am not, I am just one representatives of thousands of families in this district that appreciates the job has been doing. I have now and have back before 2006.
I only saw approximately 450 people at the last school board meeting regarding boundaries. By the way these are numbers as reported by the newspapers. I was upstairs and downstairs and would say it was more like 200-250. Back in 2006 families filled up gyms and auditoriums. That says to me that the vast majority are also happy with these decisions with that board.
So I hope those complaining the loudest (you know who I'm referring to I don't think I need to mention the neighborhood) do try your lawsuits and try to delay the 3rd HS. Then you will see those thousands of families express their disgust in your "I'm not happy until I get what I want" attitude".
Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 01:54 PM
--------
I think you are a board member, and this is the type of crap we have seen in meetings and newspapers too long. Re seeing 450 people then saying that was what the newspaper said says a lot - you SB members can be caught in a lie in the very next sentence spoken. You missed the hundreds of people stuffed in the basement watching close TV that did not work, and the people who had to step out due to the high heat in the room (not from the furnace by the way), and those locked out of the building in the cold. A couple people commented how disgusting the venue was when there are those very same gymnasiums available. This was another ploy to reduce participation from taxpayers. You also are on a campaign to single out one neighborhood because this serves the purpose of covering up a greter problem of misleading taxpayers and a lot of unhappy people across the district. Remeber the Sun Poll that showed 75% not happy tally in the district not that neighborhood. You are making it easy to recruit people.

To Anonymous who wrote:
Regardless of what an independent third party expert says the IPSD is still going to do what they believe is the right thing for the district based on all the critera they have laid out dozens of times and I don't feel the need to reiterate those critera. There has been statistics ran to validate their decisions and unfortunately some are not happy, that will happen with your independent third party expert or without them.
I do believe that the decisions made would stand up to review and/or wouldn't change things significantly like those who are unhappy would hope. So once again "get over it" and "move on" you're only making yourself look like big whiners.
Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 01:00 PM
----

Right, they would do what they want anyway - that would probably be the reesult too. Independent consultant makes recommendation yo do a, b, c and the SB says its flawed and does x, y, z. You are probably right because these guys are so stubborn.

Yes, the criteria have been laid out dozens of times, and each time they changed, and when they did not change the SB just lied about the criteria being met when they were not - whatever it took to do what they wanted anyway.

The decisions and "statistics" would not stand up to a blind man, and that will probably come out to the total embarassment of the SB and the district.

To Logical mom in 204, who wrote:

you can't just think about today or the next 5-10 years as far as population goes. we need to look at long. one other post had a great comment. fast for 25-30 years when population and growth are down. we will more than likely need to close one school. so what sense does it make to have two schools in the southern end. with mv up north we will then have one in the south and one in the north. unfortunatley for some this transition is hard on them now. but do we really want to get through this all over again when we are all ready to retire or for some us in retirment.
the SB needs to look long term and they have with the MV site. like it or not.
Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 07:18 AM

This is the thinking that got us into all the mess to begin with. Who had the big idea that WVHS had to be closed because it is X years old. There are 100 year old schools out there, that with a little remodeling, can last 150 years. This is what I have been digging for and reflects strong rumors from top officials.

Just because it would be nice to have a building in the north, officials needs to think about the entire district, they need to evaluate where the growth is, then build with geographic proximity in mind. Building in the north - where the students are not and where the accelerated decline is expected in student numbers, will raise transportation costs and safety dangers. And that means more and more students on buses.

If the SB said "we do not have to worry about WVHS today", and planned to invest in the remodeling later, then we would not be burning $350 million for a bigger school than we need, especially one in the north. The north/central people would continue going to the same school they always went to (rmodeled), and a smaller school could be built where the kids are - everyone would be happy to pay there tax bill.

In fact, if one takes out this argument around the closing of WV, you can very quickly get to thinking about NO NEW HS needed.

For all the people who say stop whinning and move on. Be careful what you wish for. We all know this SB has a history of saying one thing and doing another. I wonder if you still would be saying that if you get directly impacted. Would you still be supporting the SB. I bet not. Then who would be WHIINING NOW. You perhaps.

LOL, Threats, worry, panic, longer travel time, environmental waste, train accidents, armageddon!!!

It's over people you can all stop posting now!!

I hope you unhappy minority of residents try and bring lawsuits and I'll laugh at alllllll the money you'll waste. Then you'll complain some more on how unhappy you are still and the city, county and state wouldn't listen to you (boo hoo). Hopefully, at that point you'll move and leave the IPSD. Remember the majority of us appreciate the job our SB is doing and are thankful for the education our children get no matter what school they go to. Granted you'll have to sell your house for lower then you expect but I'm sure there are plenty of families wanting to be in this superior school district even with all the taxes all of us pay.

to Anonymous.

OK. I promise not to whine in two years. Now will you stop ?

Carnage?

anonymous 2/22 4:36pm

....."3. A perfect disaster for the district in ill will, tax revenue loss, and further legal costs from bus accidents and angry taxpayers.".....


Now the school bus drivers don't know how to drive over tracks to get your precious children to school.

Then you drive'em.

...."you will see the carnage brought upon us"

You need professional help, after the above comment.

Dear "Kickbacks and Fraud are alive and well"

I like the Pay-to-Play policy you pasted. I would support that in 204 for sure.

Do you have any evidence at all (really....i mean ANYTHING) that would support such accusations at the moment ?

Also...Do you happen to know who shot Kennedy?

blah blah blah blah.

To Childish who wrote:
1. We need a new school. At least that what the majority of those who voted agreed when they voted for one.
2. It has to go somewhere.
3. No location is perfect.
4. Somebody will be unhappy.
5. I am sorry that somebody is you but......
6. Please stop whining.
Posted by: Childish | February 21, 2008 10:08 AM

1. Maybe you think you need one but you don't - see other posts where 1 HS has been created in last 2 years for zero cost.
2. Not any more...or...how about in Elgin then.
3. A perfect disaster for the district in ill will, tax revenue loss, and further legal costs from bus accidents and angry taxpayers.
4. That is NOW guaranteed for a lot more people than you think.
5. It's you too...remeber this 2 years from now.
6. OK, but please remember this in 2 years when you do the same.
We all are hurt by the incompetence of this SB and admin. You will see the carnage brought upon us.

>>I have a simple question for the school-board-bashers.

>>What do the volunteers on the schoolboard have to gain by supporting a high school we dont need ?

Kickbacks, free dinners, promises of future positions in state government, landscaping company suddenly cutting their grass for free, free deck built on house, huge gift baskets at the holidays, college scholarship for their teenager, vacation to Wisconsin Dells paid for by vendor, wife gets commission on real estate contract from vendor that does business with government entity, the list goes on and on. Search google and you can find these or similar items with ease that have occured in government.

Greed and corruption follow big money like flies on rotting meat.

District 204 spends over 1 BILLION every 4 years.

Do you know how much time some SB members are spending in Springfield?

If you think there isn't corruption at district 204, you are living in a bubble.

Many school districts have attemnpted to eliminate PAY-FOR-PLAY as it gives the impression of impropriety but not 204.

The school board in Cary District 26 passed a policy aimed at preventing any pay to play politics with the school system. I have pasted it for you below and included the link.

Vendor/Contractor Conflict of Interest

Any company or individual doing $10,000 or more in business with the District within a fiscal year shall not contribute to any political campaign that directly affects the District while doing business for the District or for a period of two years after completion of business with the District. Further, the District will not enter into significant business with a company or individual that has contributed to a political campaign that directly affects the District within two years prior to commencing business.

Political campaigns that directly affect the district shall be defined as:

· School board election
· Tax or bond referendum

Of course staff, teachers and administrators need to be added to the language. This is a good start and the Cary Board needs to be commended for their action. Policies like this should be adopted by all taxing bodies throughout the State and Country.

http://educationmatters.us/?p=668

Did you ever look at the list of district 204 vendors and others that gave over $50,0000 to the vote YES propaganda machine?

Contributed By
Address
Amount
Received By Description

Aramark Management Services 2300 Warrenville Road
Downers Grove, IL 60515 $5,000.00
3/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Bogart, Sandra 3803 Royal Portrush Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $1,000.00
2/22/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Buck, Stuart 1520 Winberie Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Clow PTA 1301 Springdale Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Crouse, Howard 30W250 Allister Lane
Naperville, IL 60563 $250.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

D'Addario, Elizabeth 2324 Wellsley Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
1/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Datz, Jack 3131 Treesdale Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Doody, James 2351 Fawn Lake Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Edwin Anderson Construction Co. 9526 W. Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176 $1,000.00
2/18/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Fort, Jaynai
Occupation: Housewife
Employer: N/A 2875 Parkwood Lane
Aurora, IL 60502 $1,000.00
2/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Gregory Middle School PTA 2731 Salix Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/24/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Gurtz Electric Co. 77 West Seegers Road
Arlington Heights, IL 60005 $14,000.00
2/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Havala, Toni 3107 Treesdale Court
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Hughes, Michael 4020 Winberie Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $25.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Hughes, Michael 4020 Winberie Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Hurlbert, Sandra 2733 Seiler Drive
Naperville, IL 60565 $200.00
2/16/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Kimball Hill Homes 5999 New Wilke Road
#504
Rolling Meadows, IL 60008 $1,000.00
3/15/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Kings Court Builders Inc. P.O. Box 5070
Naperville, IL 60567 $500.00
3/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Koulos, James 4220 Kings Hill Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
3/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Koulos, James 4220 Kings Hill Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $100.00
1/12/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Laidlaw Education Servces 9714 South Route 59
Naperville, IL 60564 $5,000.00
3/9/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Mason Contractors 306 W. Campus Drive
Arlington Heights, IL 60004 $500.00
2/18/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Moser Enterproses 300 East 5th Ave.
Suite 430
Naperville, IL 60563 $500.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Neuqua Valley PTA 2560 95th Street
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/21/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Nicholas, Arthur 930 Emerald Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $1,000.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Nicholas, Arthur 930 Emerald Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $500.00
3/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Oxford Bank & Trust 1111 W 22nd Street
Suite 800
Oak Brook, IL 60523 $1,000.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Patterson PTA 3731 Lawrence Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/13/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Ryland Homes 1141 E. Main Street
Suite 108
East Dundee, IL 60118 $2,500.00
2/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Schumann, Carl 3799 Baybrook Drive
Aurora, IL 60504 $250.00
2/9/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Schur, David 1401 Monarch Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $250.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Scullen Middle School PTSA 2815 Mistflower Lane
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
3/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Smith, Andrew 821 Thornapple Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $100.00
3/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Smith, Andrew 821 Thornapple Drive
Naperville, IL 60540 $100.00
1/28/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Sodexho School Services 3020 Woodcreek Drive
Suite B
Downers Grove, IL 60515 $1,000.00
3/14/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Spring Brook Elementary PTA 2700 Seiler Dr.
Naperville, IL 60565 $200.00
3/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Taylor, James 4040 Winberie Ave.
Naperville, IL 60564 $200.00
2/27/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Welch PTA 2620 Leverenz Road
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
2/10/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

White Eagle School PTA 1585 White Eagle Drive
Naperville, IL 60564 $500.00
2/8/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Whitt Law 105 E. Galena
8th Floor
Aurora, IL 60505 $1,000.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Wiseman-Hughes Enterprises Inc 975 East 22nd Street
Wheaton, IL 60187 $2,000.00
2/17/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Zoet, Gary 2356 Fawn Lake Circle
Naperville, IL 60564 $300.00
2/1/2006 Individual Contribution
204 the Kids

Clearly, some of these contributions are highly questionable.

Scanning the comments, and I can't believe how many times I have read "could of", "would of", "should of", etc....
So-called educated people: the word is "have", not "of".
And don't get me started on your misuse of adverbs.

Class dismissed

Actually, nosuchthingasneutral, Get Some Backbone's assumption is probably correct, there will be a contingent of people who find fault with whatever a consultant says. With a District as large and diverse as 204, there will always be a group of people that are unhappy with the output. Having the community vote? Isn't why we have an elected SB? Under your scenario, a consultant's input and recommendation could be shot down and where does that leave us?

nosuchthingasneutral

No, YOU have missed the point (that's twice now and I am counting ;-) ).

The people who are on the "losing side" of the consultants recomendation will find fault with the selection of the consultants. or the job they did. or the color suits they wore. or the price the district paid for them.

and the bickering will never end. THAT is the point, my friend.

--------------------------------------------------
AND....

The SB IS ALREADY a group of residents representing all grade schools. and middle schools. and high schools.

So do we need ANOTHER group ? do we have to have elections for them too ? what if they are biased ? what if all the southsiders gang up on the northsiders?

More bickering.

We need to put this thing to a vote. Which we already did. And people are still bickering. I am not naive enough to believe that will end with another one.

GetSomeBackBone. No I think YOU missed the point. That's the point with using an outside consultant....things like "they don't know our kids/families/economic situation" and "don't know our area" doesn't matter. You give them the existing criteria and it it becomes an operations research problem to move the students around to optimize the criteria (the same criteria the SB claimed to have used, but only use when convenient). They turn in a proposal and the community gets a vote yes or no. Majority wins. We move on.

I think to really make it work, you are going to have to break some Elementary schools up, but so far most agree that split grade schools don't matter at that school level as long as everyone goes to their Closest school.

No real issue with favortism with the consultant - Before you start with the contract, you eliminate the "conflict of interest" by not allowing anyone working on the study to actually be related to or living in Stonebridge or Brookdale....oops I mean District #204. Full disclosure of contractor. And maybe the SB doesn't get to pick the company, a group of residents representing all grade schools does.

I think the output would at least shut down those who are for a third school but don't like the site selection or the boundaries. It will not convince the "no new school needed" We need another district wide vote for that.

I have a simple question for the school-board-bashers.

What do the volunteers on the schoolboard have to gain by supporting a high school we dont need ?

For the life of me I cant figure out what it could be.

Doesnt it seem far more likely that they are acting based on the best available information, and acting in their capacity as a neutral group of stewards, looking out for the best interest of the public who elected them ? And that their decisions will never make everybody happy ?

Where is the conspiracy ?

I think everyone needs to realize the following facts:

1) The referendum passed for a third school (I voted against it). That will not change.

2) The referendum passed and was NOT TIED to any piece of land. AND we were always told "boundaries are subject to change"

3) The boundaries are finalized. Like it or not, this will not change.

4) The SB in the past has made questionable decisions for sure in the past. Unfortunately, this will not change either. While I am as upset about these as the next person, I can't object too much until I commit the time and energy to join the board.

5) Time to face the facts, live with the decision, move on and make the most out of really isnt that bad a situation...still a great place to live and a great school district.

Oh my Dr Y, nosuchthingasneutral.....and Others....

You have missed the point yet again....

You can hire all the outside consultants you wish and all you will get is more arguments. Regardless of what the consultant says, one side of that debate or the other will find reasons why the conclusion is not valid.

Let's try a few on shall we?
-They are known as pro-build consultancy.
-They are known as being friendly to school boards because thats who hires them.
-One of them belongs to a group of tax-revolt zealots
-They dont know our area
-They dont know our kids/families/economic situation etc
-They looked at the wrong facts
-I disagree with some of their basic assumptions

The list is endless.

The simple fact is that there are those who do not want to pay for a third school, and those who do, and there is little common ground to find compromise there.

There comes a point in time when debate must stop and a decision must be made. And that point came and went with the referendum. Revisiting the issue now (and again and again) will solve nothing, and will not increase the 'net happines' of the district.

This is to "MB" who would like to go to a newer school - please let the school board know. There are many areas assigned to the "new" school that are clammoring to take your place at WV. Yes, even areas in (gasp) "entitled" Naperville (as The Sun has now labeled us). We don't care about getting a "shiny new school," we want a decent commute to one of the equal high schools in our district.

to the sky is falling, run--

I never said an imminent terrorist threat was here right now. Your poor attempt to argue a point that was not even made clearly shows that you have nothing of any validity to add. I was pointing out how we are going against published guidelines and recommendations by choosing to build a new school near that existing infrastructure. Since they wish to go against those guidelines and recommendations they need to inform the public what steps they are taking to mitigate those hazards and publish their plan on how they and local responders will deal with a catastrophic worst-case scenario incident. If the best they can do is ridicule or just say 'trust us' then people need to really wake up and smell the coffee that they have not considered it and will not consider it. They need a plan, even if it never gets used or implemented. In the best case, it sits as a paper relic collecting dust. That's the ideal outcome.

Dr Y? at 1:04 PM
For whom are you speaking? You refer to "a number of areas" but that's such a generality. By your account, "a number of areas" are in revolt and will no longer support their childrens' eduction or, will simply sell their homes and move out. It's clear to me that parental involvement and volunteerism are key factors in what has made our District 204 schools exceptional. To say that "a number of areas" are going to turn their back on their children's eduction and no longer volunteer simply because they are at a different school sounds rather irresponsible doesn't it? I for one am not buying in to your negative, gloom and doom posting.

Dear TG (who got screwed):

I have an address within NVHS boundaries to rent to anyone who is wants to still go there. I believe there are kids who go to Neuqua right now who use the address of aunts & uncles or other, while their home is actually in Chicago or somewhere I think this is true for some kids going to WVHS too. You won't have bus service after 2010*, but you won't need it, as your kid can safely walk over the bridge from TG.

*For two years there will be bus service from Ashwood, TG and White Eagle to both NVHS and WVHS. You can sneak a ride on the bus.

I think we need to start over, even if it means a delay to 2009 opening.

Step Zero - Acknowledge that the participating community has some valid points
First - Re-validate enrollment projections based on 2008 facts.
Second - Based on that determine need for capacity increase
Third - Explore cheaper alternatives to third school that take care of the bubble (if so) without giving us the mortgage.
Fourth - if bubble is real and unavoidable, determine location for school that meets the population and geographic needs.

Fifth - Determine the boundaries using independent Scientific consultant or the AP High School students to optimize and maximize intent of criteria.

Sixth - Approve next referendum

Seventh - Accept and move on

Today, pro-push aheads think we are at step 7, but the lack of confidence and buy -in is going to delay everything if they push ahead without going back to re-validate based on current events.

It is ridiculous that we are failing ourselves in acceptin/understanding the big problem. To start with, no I am not from TG, so it has got nothing to do with not having had my fair share. I feel the biggest problem is the site. In a country where people are so concerned with their pets and their welfare, are we prepared to take any chances with our kids? If there are so many leads directing us to the unfit state of this land, why are we going after it at all? Is the SB willing to take all guaranties that our kids will not be affected by any potential hazards on this land? Or, later they will hide behind the sheets and pass the blame on something else. We are looking for written guaranty from the SB that the land is/and will be deemed fit for school construction. I only wish a few kids from the SB were also attending the HS on this piece of land. Will they have acted so ruthlessly even then?

Wow, didn't know the imminent terrorist threat was in a suburb 35 miles west of Chicago, Arch. Guess we should add some budget dollars for bunkers at Metea. Perhaps a moat, too?

to LOL--

Let me guess, you think 9/11 was an inside job and there is no threat, it's a big conspiracy to enslave the american public?
FEMA must put out fake documents to support this vast conspiracy too. And no one died that day, they are living on some island in the south Pacific sipping margaritas. Thank you for assuring everyone's safety for decades to come.

Daer Dr Y? I think your comment regarding consultant price was for the Getsomebackbone. I am the comment above my name, as always on this blog. I am definitely for gettting independent consultants to determine site site selection and boundaries to meet the SB criteria.

OMG Arch...

"attack at this facility impacting the
other major structures or attack on the major structures impacting this facility"

Now you're leading us down the road that our children that will attend MVHS have to worry about terrorists threats? Do you ever leave the house or are you too scared of trains, polution and overall dangers of society?

For those of you who also keep brining up the railroad issue and increased traffic. What if the sale doesn't go through? Then what will be your next excuse? As someone mentioned earlier the odds of getting hit by a train are about 1 to 1 billion. Add in the fact that parents, teachers and students have been crossing these tracks for 30+ years with no incident.

Dear 203 Parent who wrote:
As a parent with kids in District 203, I can honestly say that I'm glad we don't live in 204. We bought a house in Naperville in 2000 and stayed away from 204 as it was obviously growing very quickly, with boundary and school changes an inevitable reality. At the same time, kids in 203 go to schools that are much older than any of those in 204 and the kids all seem to be doing fine. The decisions have been made and it seems like it's time for everyone to start getting involved in whichever schools their kids will be attending and make them the best schools possible, rather than fighting and keeping everyone from focusing on the kids and the great education they deserve.
Posted by: 203 Parent | February 21, 2008 12:00 AM

Parent involvement from a number of areas has just been killed off. Top volunteers have said they will not volunteer at the new locations. Those front line moms may eventually rollover and volunteer in a limited fashion, but the energy will not be the same. The SB of course assumes this is not the case.

Next, parents are going to move, many to old 203, so move over or sell your house finally. The SB does not think this will happen either, but the property values will go down and the shortfall will have to be made up by remaining 204 taxpayers. Some have already challenged property tax valuationsbased on 2004-2006 home sales and have received 15-20% reductions in valuations, and thus in taxes going to schools.

This is all before the current real estate market problems and then the (what can only be called) stupid decisions made by the view elitists for the good of the district, ignoring costs, safety, the recession, just about anything rational to benefit themselves and engage in social engineering to cover up a problem that does not exist.

So when this is over, the SB should make sure their budget reflects about a 15-25% reduction (or shall I say redistribution of wealth) and increased taxes on themselves (like that). However, wealth may not be the proper term, because when you have a long track record of ignoring taxpayers, the wealth goes away, but the taexs stay! By the way that's only $39 to $65 million in higher taxes for the lucky few who drank the coolaid and thought they would help themselves - a just result - Karma prevails!

I agree with some of you that we should move on from this, even though it isnt a perfect solution and focus on the railroad issue. (I am in a WVHS neighborhood and though I'd love to go to one of the newer schools, I am insightful enough to know that WVHS is overall a very, very good school. And those who are now new to it, can work to make it even beter, instead of focusing on what they "lost")

As far as the railroad issue, anyone who has driven on Ogden knows the long delays that happen when one of the 3-4 daily trains go by. Imagine the delays if this purchase goes through and the train traffic is increased to 100 or more. Added to the congestion of the new "Town Square Mall" going in off Ogden. It would be a nightmare.

I've noticed that MH seems to think he/she speaks for all of us or knows everything. Very arrogant. I was upset in 2006 and am still upset now. This 3rd high school was and will never be needed and it is a monumental waste of money. My taxes just go up and up and up. I can hardly pay my bills.

You know what they say, petty power corrupts.
District 204 is a prime example.

The sooner more houses are foreclosed, the sooner we can get rid of the corrupt politicians who are wasting our taxdollars and start over with more responsible people.

Vallejo, CA is filing for bankruptcy, could the state of California be next followed by Illinois?

Someone indicated that the Peaker site has yet to have an independent enviornmental impact study/evaluation conducted. Does the Peaker site already have ongoing hazardous ground, air or water problems? What potential dangerous contaminants could be exposed from such a site. Will construction on the HS start before the Peaker site is evaluated? When will all this be accomplished? Is there a timeline for remediation, if required? Will remediation occur while school is in open session. Was this site turned down in a previous referrendum because of ontamination/environmental/unsafe conditions? If so, what has been improved at the site to change if from unsafe to safe.

To the South Sider--

http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/rms/rmsp428

People are labeling those people who are saying "Hey, stop for a moment... Should we really be allowing this to happen?" as whiners.

I am sorry to use such a drastic example but it's a classic case of something that would otherwise be benign (a tool) being used for a very bad purpose.

D204 is choosing to locate a school next to several high volume and high pressure fuel supplies that could also be used for very bad purpose.

Here is a clip from the document posted above:

What critical infrastructure, government, military, or recreation facilities are in the local area
that impact transportation, utilities, and collateral damage (attack at this facility impacting the
other major structures or attack on the major structures impacting this facility)?

Critical infrastructure to consider includes:
Telecommunications infrastructure
Facilities for broadcast TV, cable TV; cellular networks; newspaper offices, production, and distribution; radio
stations; satellite base stations; telephone trunking and switching stations, including critical cable routes and major
rights-of-way
Electric power systems
Power plants, especially nuclear facilities; transmission and distribution system components; fuel distribution,
delivery, and storage
Gas and oil facilities
Hazardous material facilities, oil/gas pipelines, and storage facilities

-- A Multi-billion dollar Govt. agency believes it's important enough to consider the consequences.
Places that are already located next to these things are pretty much S.O.L.
D204 is choosing to ignore this when they have other choices. The problem is that people don't want to reach down into their pockets any further to eliminate the hazard completely or they feel other 'gains' obtained by choosing this site outweigh those risks.

To anonymous who wrote...

Naperville Resident, well spoken.
It's sad that people are willing to shut their eyes, or worse yet, their children's eyes to the real world. Just imagine how hard that transition to college will be if they have a dorm mate that is from the "other side of the tracks".
Posted by: Anonymous | February 20, 2008 11:00 PM

By far the reason for those people unhappy with riding buses is distance, distance, distance or location, location, location. Not any other issues. So your statement is factual but means distance distance distance not some form of bigotry that cannot even be used here because there is minimal diversity compared to anywhere else in the district and no academic problem. The negative perceptions were started, promoted and echoed by the district and your SB. Again DISTANCE!

At least that's what I see. A few jerks blogging on bigoted views offset by about 10,000 other normal people who think WVHS is a strong academic school proved out when campared to any other school in the area.

To Get some backbone-

If they would have used some outside consultants they wouldn't have such an uproar. If you use a third pary who has no direct relation to the district. They have no hidden agendas. There are some people who would not be happy but, I believe the vast majority would be more accepting of change. The SB has just blown millions of dollars on BB. I think a nominal fee to pay consultants pale in comparision.

To all who are happy the SB decision good for you. To the people who believe the SB made the wrong decision( Site, boundaries,
split schools,farther travel distances, potential hazards,etc.)
You have every right to challenge their decision. The last time I looked we live in the United State of America.

Arch: It really is a stretch to try and equate "whiners" regarding school boundaries with the events of 9/11! If a security guard stops someone at an airport with a box cutter (even before 9/11) I can't think of anyone that would consider that person a whiner. As for the multiple pipelines please don't think for a second that there will not be additional safety related studies on this site. The studies will show, as they have already shown, that there is little to no safety related issues on this property.

Also, the concern the district and homeowners have with the railroad is not so much about accidents, but about the delays that a 100+ car freight train causes. If the railroad purchase is successful it will mean overpasses must be built to alleviate the delays. You would have a much better argument if your point is "who will pay for the overpasses required"?

nosuchthngasneutral,

Let me think about this...hhhmmmm....$100,000 for consultants versus $350 million....huuummmmm....aaaaaaahhhhhhh....dah!

Per someone's request to see more on environmental issues, here is a post from a parent who is to attend MVHS (this from the proboards blog).

There are plenty of people concerned about the environmental condition and safety of the site who really are assigned there, myself included.

So far, our concerns have been validated with the phase2 samples showing diesel fuel oil contamination in multiple spots. If there was not a concern each sample would have come back clean. They did not. These spots need to be legally remediated and certified safe for the purpose of a school before construction should begin.

One other thing slipping below people's radar is that when the peaker plant is removed later this year there is again the possibility of contamination. It will have to be remediated again. In an ideal world, this should be entirely completed and cleaned up with the plant completely removed before a purchase contract is signed and construction begins. The administration is taking another leap of faith that it will be ok for a school site when that work is all said and done.

I highly doubt MWGEN will allow for an un-capped amount of money for remediation in their sales contract. The District is acting foolish, in many people's opinion, purchasing something before it's cleaned up. If something prevents it from moving forward later as a school site, every dollar spent is again flushed down the toilet. At least there will be symmetry if that happens.

-Arch

MH

I'm not sure those who were negatively affected by the 2007 proposed boundaries changes and BB site location "got over it", .......well at least not until the 2008 new boundaries and site were approved that improved on their "never were experienced sacrifices" for the District.

The remaining negatively affected from 2007, or the disbelievers of needing the third school, are still are mad. They didn't get over it. That's who you are hearing from now. It's also fresh. Give TG, who got the raw deal of all school board desired criteria, some time to think. They may eventually "get over it" or move too. But it's going to be hard to sell in this market.....and may have less buyers wanting the 6 mile commute, when there are plenty of comparable homes for sale within 2 miles of the other school.


to the enlightened anonymous@9:02am,

Yes, we do need a 3rd high school. We agree there.
I personally do not look at railroad tracks as a show stopper but I can not understand why our district would be against the sale of the EJ&J line to CN if there were no safety concerns whatsoever. Also, many cities and neighborhoods stood up against the sale. Why?
I don't live near them so I really do not care about them too much.
The people traveling farther than 5.9 miles today are going from S to N in the morning (counter commute) which has far less traffic and takes far less time than anyone who will have to go northbound for that same distance. Try this test: Travel from Diehl south on Eola to Ogden. Note your time. Now, turn around and travel from Ogden up Eola to Diehl and note your time. Do this at 6:40 AM on a school/work day and let us know your travel times just for that small stretch of a commute. Thanks.

with respect to your 'whiners' comment, I have to wonder if you would have called a security guard at Logan airport a 'whiner' for making a big deal about a simple box cutter several years ago. Sometimes seemingly 'safe' things can be made to do very bad things. This is my concern with the multiple pipelines bordering and running through the MWGEN/AME property site. In the perfect world, there would be no problem. In the real world, choosing to put kids next to a very large fuel source is just plain dumb and wreckless.

It's supposedly cheap and close to home/work for many people who call it Karma, so it's all good, right?

TG resident here. We voted for this referendum to eliminate the over crowding of schools. If you remember when the debate came around last time about the boundaries TG wanted to remain at NV even with the BB site. We voted yes (most of us) because what we got was the second best option, MV at BB. We voted yes because we were not being shipped to the school that was furthest from our homes and across the RR tracks. The RR was a concern then even though there were only 12 trains a day. Now there will be an increase of train traffic by 300% (36 per day). 1.5 freight trains per hour! I can't wait to see what the average travel times will be. With that said, I am willing to move on, because I beleive that being it's better to be 1 of 2600 at WV than 1 of
4000 at NV. I don't care if it incudes a freshman campus it's still too many kids. for those of you that think they "won" by remaining at NV, you are crazy. This solution clearly does not solve the problem of over crowding. the process of choosing the site should have been slowed down and it should have considered that the majority of HS students are on the south end of the district. My kids will be fine no matter what school they attend in district 204. By being at WV instead of the over crowded NV they just might get a chance to participate in more school activities.

I have a couple questions for the 'lets wait' crowd.

Who will pay for the consultants to:
-Do enrollment projections?
-Do the boundary designs based on some kind of 'science'?
-Predict economic trends which will affect the housing market?
-Do repetitive environmental assessments?
-Review already-explored options other than building a 3rd high school?

And if the answers come back the same, how many of you will:
-complain bitterly anyway?
-accuse the board of using the wrong consultants?
-accuse the board of wasting money on consultants?
-wonder out loud why we elected the board and pay the administration if the consultants have all the answers?

And if the answers come back differently, how many on the other side will:
-start complaining bitterly?
-accuse the board of using the wrong consultants?
-accuse the board of wasting money on consultants?
-wonder out loud why we elected the board and pay the administration if the consultants have all the answers?

All the information we need to make a decision is already out there. But you do have to read it and decide how credible it is (which means not relying on information people put on this blog). All the consultants in the world will do nothing more than prolong the debate because:
-They are not any smarter than us (many of whom ARE consultants).
-They will have no additional information than already exists.
-There will always be disagreement.

Nobody is better than the collective intelligence of this electorate to make these decisions.

And I think we already did, didn't we?

Anyone know what the next step is in the process and what is being done? Just get past the March 17th date to see what the financial damage from BB is?

Also this is for friend of mine -- can your junior (or senior) change from NVHS to WVHS to join their younger sibling who must make the move due to the boundary change. This is for family convenience. I know they were not going to allow the vice versa of that, which was to have the younger sibling stay at NVHS.

Doesn't work for Metea since there will be no upper classes in 2009. I really feel sorry for the sophomores in 2009 at Metea, and know it can't be helped. But I would think the experience of high school will be a bit diminished without having upperclassmen. On the good side, I think they will have more opportunities to participate. But then again, I saw Neuqua struggle in the early years with athletics.

P.S Welch is my school tag. I didn't see those walkers out there this morning.

Is it true that the new school will begin in 2009 with sophmores and juniors? Also is it true the students will not have many of the activities of the other schools? Why can't a new school be completed before openning? Will children need to be transported to other schools to participate in after school activities. What effect would this additonal transportation have on students and parents. Does openning before completion have something to do with bond issue monies and/or other commitments.

To Anonymous 09:02 AM,

It is not the question of not being affected by the boundaries last time or this time. Why don't people like you learn to look at the bigger picture instead of arguing about who is the winner this time or the last time? You need to understand that we are talking about kids, about principles, about ethics, about the correct modus operandi....

If the kids have been going to a particular middle school or high school, the SB has no right to uproot them and force them to accept "what they feel is right". You need to understand where the kids are coming from, above all. We will fight whether people like you agree or not.

Irritated Mom and others,

Again, it is quite transparent that those upset NOW are those who were not affected last time. Others affected with the last boundary change eventually got over it. Or moved. Take your pick.

To: Arch...

I appreciate you trying to make an issue where is none as has been proven with the study already done for EMF. Take another test, heck take two or three. Fact is the levels aren't high enough where the high school will be, look at the proposed site map. As far as your comment "Do you try to mitigate anything bad that your children might be exposed to in your life". Sure I try and teach them right from wrong and what is good and bad. However, I think a big part of society today is we also shelter out kids too much and try to protect them when in fact they need to learn lessons on their own.

Let me also point out other issues the unhappy residents have been trying to bring up to no avail...

- Dangerous railroad tracks. People have been crossing these tracks for 30+ years to get to WVHS and that was before they even had crossing guard arms.

- Driving 5.9 miles will take more then 30+ minutes. Again, people in the district have been traveling farther then that to go to WVHS and it has not taken even close to 30 minutes.

- The district voted on a refferendum for a 3rd HS and it passed and now it will be built. No going back on this one!!

It is these reasons that keep coming up again and again and they have no legs to stand on. Keep brining them up all you want but it doesn't change what has been done. That is why people call those who raise these issues whiners and laugh. Fact is, those who are not happy are in a minority. The sooner you try to make good on what you consider a bad situation the better off you and your family will be.

I totally agree with yoooooohoooooo.

This is where most of us come from. We would like the SB to go slow and re-evaluate all the pros and cons. They cannot rush this important decision that is going to effect so many people. If required, we need to go to all higher levels to intervene in this sensitive matter.

I am very upset about kids having to move from their schools (middle and high) after the boundaries come into effect. As is a general case in any other school district, kids are not uprooted from schools they are attending when boundaries come into force. The boundaries generally effect the new enrollments. Any thoughts?

I have been consumed with these blogs for a week and have come to realize that the negativity they have produced has spilled into my personal life...shame on me! I have posted many a negative blog on this site as well as the others. What's done is done. Now before you attack me and say" well you're probably not effected", I will tell you I most certainly am. I am an Owen parent and after the board meeting am now an Owen West parent. I most certainly did not get what I wanted or what I thought was best for my children. I do still have reservations about the site, the commute, the train and all the other issues, but I find it in the best interest of my children to help them transition into MV. Yes my daughter will be a Warrior for a year and then a Mustang for 3, but she will also be the first graduating class of MV and will be able to help transition her sister to MV in 2010. I am not in agreement with the SB or the decisions that they made, but I've been handed lemons and now I have to make lemonade! I urge everyone to find the peace in themselves to help their children make the best transitions.

anonymous who was talking about people not having all the facts:

Our SB and Administration did not have all the facts either. After I did a back and forth with M2 about the peaker plant and the pipelines to help inform them of where their facts were 'in error' he admitted "I do appreciate the link; there's more info there than the limited run of paper copies we previously had."

Yes, I certainly agree with you that making important decisions without all of the facts is a very dangerous thing to do. Our administration and school board was doing just that, making decisions without all the facts. Let us hope they correct that bad habit going forward.


to the person who thinks pointing out what a TV or microwave puts out justifies bad readings on a future school site, let me ask you this: Do you try to mitigate anything bad that your children might be exposed to in your life, educating them on the potential dangers and informing them how they can limit their levels of risks to things or do you introduce them to bad things as much as you can because, Hey, they're going to run into it anyway, might as well jump off the deep end and go ape-crap with it. ??

Some parents do not let their kids sit for long periods of time in front of the idiot box. It is a generally accepted rule that you should not stand in front of a microwave while it is running due to leakage. If EMF was great, the microwave would not shut off when you open the door and in fact it would not even have a door in the first place.

Let me leave you with this question: If the people concerned about the safety of the site turn out to be wrong and there is no safety problem, what is the downside? Nothing. On the other hand, if the people who claim there is no problem turn out to be wrong because they made their conclusion first without having all of the facts (like our good friend anonymous above says) then what is the downside? Expensive lawsuits, maybe it's your child that something happens to, etc. Believe me, I'd rather be wrong than right about this issue.

I get a kick out of "TG Dad" (6:41 pm today) without any solution, who didn't participate and vote the first time cause he was too busy or 2nd time cause spouse wouldn't let him and now supports the filibusters cause TG didn't get their way.....Hey, grow a pair and vote your conscience. Our soldiers, then and now, fight for you right to do so, some paying the ultimate price for that right. Sorry but I have no respect for people who sit on the sidelines and throw stones. The SB pulled a rabbit out of their hat's with the new Metea site...and thanks EMF for your input on toxic soil, that's a non-issue scare tactic.

The BB site was double the cost per acre and would have required another referendum for "operational" expenses in 2 years. I agree with previous entry, that "quick take" would have been a disaster. The BB estate lawyers "schooled" our SB & attorney's. Now they have first crack at 25 acres we own at the old negotiated price of 2-3 years ago. Furthermore, you and I will end up paying for their legal fees as well. Shark and shark-bait.

To Tall Grass Grow up,

There was no collective Tall Grss at that meeting were a few people stood up and made fools of themselves. First off, how do you know those people were from Tall Grass? Did you as them? I was at that same meeting and I am from Tall Grass. I did not participate in anyway with that group. I was also sitting by several others from Tall Grass. Where are you getting your information from. Can you spell Slander Suit? The Sun may want to start thinking of that.

I have lived here long enough to remember when Howie Crouse and others told us if we just spent money on the freshman centers, we would not need the 3rd high school and all would be well.

‘District leaders have considered the idea of a third high school over the last decade, but have rejected it as too costly. A high school would cost nearly twice as much as converting and replacing the middle schools and would not be as marketable to commercial buyers in 15 or 20 years when the enrollment boom has passed through the district.’

Daily Herald, 1/28/01 (quoting District 204 Officials)


‘They didn’t like the idea eight years ago and they don’t like it now. When plans were put in place in 1993 to build Neuqua Valley High School, Indian Prairie District 204 officials also discussed-and rejected-the possibility of building a third high school. Instead of building a third high school, district administrators developed what they thought was a better solution-having freshman centers. This is not a new idea…[w]e changed the design for middle schools knowing we would eventually move toward the freshman campuses.’

Naperville Sun, 1//31/01 (quoting Howard Crouse, then Associate Superintendent)


‘We’re trying to avoid the expense and problems of [having to build] a third high school. A third high school also would become burdensome once student population levels off…which[he] projects will be in about 15 to 20 years. If student population does not taper off as expected…the district can adapt its space needs by having off-campus facilities at junior college or technical schools—having students complete courses via the Internet.

Howard Crouse, Associate Superintendent, Naperville Sun, January, 2001


‘Enrollment should plateau…and then actually start declining 10 to 15 years out. These projections indicate a ‘bubble’ of student growth…

Bob Biedron, Co-Chair, Citizens for Continued Excellence in Education (Say Yes Political Action Committee), Daily Herald, 2/15/01


‘School officials favor freshman campuses over a third high school for several reasons. A new high school would be more costly than freshman centers, school officials say. Administrators project a high school would cost about $80 million, not including buying land. I don’t see how we could, practically, build a high school we need with the facilities we need and run under an $80 (million) to $90 million project.’

Daily Herald, 2/17/01 (quoting then school board member Mark Metzger)


‘[District 204 administrators] also predict that student enrollment in the district eventually will level off and then start to decline. They estimate the high school population would fit back into [the main campuses of] Neuqua and Waubonsie around 2020…[by] 2010, [we] predict high school enrollment will peak at 8,800 students. If this happens, officials say they don’t want the district to be stuck with a high school that isn’t being used… We’ve seen what’s occurred with other districts having empty high schools with very little utility. A high school, which would be much larger [than a freshman campus], likely would be difficult to sell…[I]f the schools would be over capacity for several years, school leaders would explore various options to deal with that...building additions then or having some students take a few classes through nearby colleges.’

Daily Herald, 2/17/01 (quoting Howard Crouse, then Associate Superintendent)

‘[Referendum] Supporters also believe local funds are needed as soon as possible to build freshmen campuses for the district. A bubble of students is expected to move through the district into the high schools…[s]chool officials say freshmen campuses cost less than a third of what a high school would. Building ninth-grade centers and replacement middle schools would cost $53 million, while a third high school would cost about $80 million, they say.’

Daily Herald, 2/26/01 (quoting District 204 Officials)

‘It is easy to say that Indian Prairie should build a third high school. But that decision was made years ago. At this point, time is too short for the urgent need and land is too expensive. Besides that, even if all those obstacles could be overcome, the ‘third high school’ eventually could end up the white elephant my high school was…[my own high school] opened in 1970, large enough to hold more than 2,500 students, but the enrollment never reached much more than 1,600. Districtwide, enrollment peaked at 12,500 and then began to decline [closing in 1981].The school district tried to sell the building. But for years, it sat there…[b]ut as I’ve listened to the debate around me in the past several months, I’ve thought a lot about what a waste in taxpayer money it all was.

Joni Hirsh Blackman, Naperville Sun, 2/11/01

Naperville is one of the largest cities in the state and so is Aurora. If you want small schools, move someplace else. We are sick of your whining. Stevenson is about the same size as NV or WV and they score at the top of every survey around. The size of a school is meaningless in terms of learning or academic performance. Do you attend class with 3000 other students? Of course not, you have 25 or 30 in a class. The population of a school has no bearing on anything except that larger schools have a broader number of courses and extra curricular activities from which to choose. Small schools can't offer such a broad menu of options.

Stevenson Ranking

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2kce47

Stevenson Enrollment

https://blackboard1.district125.k12.il.us/webapps/portal/frameset.jsp?tab_id=_32_1

Also, remember that NV and WV both have freshman campuses so more than 25% of the students are in a completely different building. I say more than 25% because a growing number of the seniors are at Frontier, not at the main campuses.

Those of you with all your so called great ideas on how the SB could of done a better job, please come forward with your names so I can vote for you next time. It's quite easy to sit back and play arm chair quarterback. And dangerous when you don't have all the facts.

Thanks to Sick and Tired for sharing where you live and actually voicing that neighborhoods supposedly not affected by the SB boundaries and decisions ARE affected because Neuqua remains a mega school even after the tax money is spent.

Nice to see that some besides TG are not just ready to "get over it and move on with the plan"

Concerned about EMF readings? Give me a Break!!!

"The readings taken on the Eola site ranged from .32-7.2mG with the average reading of 2.1mG" This was a done by an independent contractor. They went onto state that "Readings at the planned approximate location for the north side of the school structure (closest location of the structure to the east west lines) were .36mG".

If those of you who keep bringing up the EMF readings were to look at the proposed map of the MVHS planned site the whole north side of the property will be parking lots.

To further educate you a TV has an EMF reading of 10.2mG at 1 foot and a microwave has a reading of 5.5mG at 3 feet. I'm going to guess the risks of our children with an EMF of .36mG they will be safe.

By the way my kids will attend MVHS and I trust the findings of the surveyors and contractors that the school board hires.

NEXT ARGUEMENT PLEASE!!! THIS ONE HAS BEEN RULED INSIGNIFICANT!!!

I did some research...the average person stands roughly a
1:1,920,351,519 chance of being hit by a train walking or by a car(of any kind).

I think all you people afraid of trains are safe. To those that keep raising the railroad issue, maybe you should play the lottery as well, you might win.

God forbid anything like that should ever happen to anyone but at those odds I think it is safe to say it is relatively safe.

Sorry to keep drilling on the TG neighborhood but as I recall it was 2 years ago when your immature behavior caused all the finger pointing at your neighborhood. You didn't like Option 6 as I recall that put you at WVHS and TG collectively threw a fit. Guess what you got your way and were put in the new HS what was supposed to built on the BB site. Then a miracle happend, the majority of your neighborhood voted yes to the refferendum. That's when irony set in...

The BB site is not available based on the cost and the refferendum. Well, guess whos's throwing a fit again? Yep, the TG neighborhood. You got your way the first time, but ultimately it didn't work in your favor in the long run. Things change sometimes.

On the flip side of things 2 years ago the Brookdale neighborhood organized themselves and handled themselves with class (although I thought the orange t-shirts were over the top). Get this a school member who lives in their neighborhood and atteneded WV voted against their wishers which was to not split their middle school. The got over it and moved on.

I don't think it has anything to do with the way the current SB acted but I do find this all ironic that those who acted the most immature in the end didn't get their way and yet they are acting the same way again. Instead you are threatening lawsuits and having your children throw test scores.

It is clear to see that it isn't about geography it is still about your perception of WVHS. Everyone else in the district sees right through you. It is quite sad really that you only have your best interests in mind and not for the improvement of the district overall. It is quite a shallow and self-centered view.

Disclosures first:
-19 year Naperville resident
-Product of Dist 203 schools
-Brought my family back to Naperville in 2000 to try and give them the great upbringing that my parents provided to me.
-Live in one of the smallest homes in TG, no debt other than modest mortgage
-two kids who are not yet in HS that will be impacted by whatever ultimately happens with this process
-didn't vote in first referendum
-wanted to vote no in second referendum but did not vote as spouse really wanted it to pass

I'll start by saying no one is perfect, not me, not the SB, not other residents. My shortcommings include not being as involved as I could have been in the past. I believe this process started with the best of intentions, but has spun out of control.

Let's look at the referendum that passed. Everyone that says it was only to spend $ for a 3rd HS is correct. However, the SB was very clear that they intended a certain location and a certain boundry. I believe the referendum passed based on that intention. When that intention became less attractive, the SB had a moral, not legal, obligation to return to the start of the process again. They chose not to and that's my 2nd red flag that the SB may not be functioning properly.

What was the first red flag? When the SB chose not to conduct more professional analysis on whether the 3rd school was needed and whether the BB solution was optimal. They were clear it was either their way or the highway, and that this matter (which is supposed to solve problems for generations in the future) was so urgent that additional study could not occur.

Flash forward to today. Everyone in 204 is impacted by the decisions of the SB whether your HS has changed or not - we're all paying for it and all concerns are valid. Those who are upset fall into 4 categories:
-don't like location of 3rd HS
-don't like new boundries
-don't like any 3rd HS
-don't know what best answer is, but proposed solution doesn't seem right (me)
I think there is more than a minority of residents who are unhappy with the current situation as everyone is impacted by current proposal.

Where do we go from here? I will support those who want to slow this process down. While I may be naive in some respects, those who think this process is over are also naive. Business deals get done every day that were originally rejected. It's called perseverance. Of course I will accept whatever the ultimate conclusion is, but please don't label me a whiner when I want to persevere. This is one of the values I do want to teach my children - do not accept "no" for an answer when you believe in something, but be respectful and deal with the consequences once all avenues are exhausted.

I don't have a solution, but I believe an optimal solution exists and I will continue to work on it. I don't think we should accept the current solution because it's "ok, but not perfect". We can do better.

Of the various hotpoints, my 3 priorities if a 3rd HS is deemed necessary are proximity, safety and lastly, splits. I am worried that we don't fully appreciate what the new RR crossing landscape will look like from a transportation time and from a safety issue. I want to know what happens if it turns out my kids are on a bus for 2 hours each day when there is an alternative less than 5 minutes away? I'm not worried about splits, if they have to happen, as kids are reslient, especially with good parenting.

Ultimately, my kids will be fine because of our parenting, not because of a SB decision, whatever the ultimate results. What I'm most concerned about is the optimal decision for generations to come, even if it's not optimal for my kids.

Based on the margin by which the last referendum passed, I believe there are enough residents upset with the current proposal that the SB should acknowledge that the current situation is causing enough concern to warrent another look. That would truly be heroic on their part and restore the confidence of the residents. Being heroic is not easy, but often the most difficult decision is the right one. If they fail to be heroic, then this process will likely continue.

I'm sorry I don't yet have the answer, but I think there is an optimal solution that has yet to be found.

nosuchthingasneutral

Thanks for the fantastic reply. my theory was that you were a campaigner for the NO voters. So I take you at your word and realize my theory was incorrect.

my point in wondering about you is based on another theory of mine, which is this: I believe there are a significant number of people on this discussion board for whom the location of the 3rd high school is a secondary issue. Their primary objective is to try to prevent a third high school from ever being built. And they are doing it using the most cynical of tactics -- by stiring the pot, pitting neighbor against neighbor, and making outrageous claims about the board, the administration, and anything and anyone else they can think of regardless of any collateral damage they might cause.

I am in favor of the third school. And I think that many of the people unhappy over the boundaries are (or were) also in favor of it (TG and WE voted overwhelmingly in favor last time). But I think that there are people who are whipping up a lot of negative sentiment and trying to foster a "scorched earth" mentality amongst those who are unhappy with the boundaries. And I object to that. Not because I do not respect their right to be against the third high school, but because I do not appreciate the methods they use to try to bring others to their side.

Now I do not even know if it is possible to stop the third high school from being built at this point. I hope not. But I am anxious that people writing to and reading this blog take care what they write, and with whom they assume they have common cause. You may well be getting 'played' by people with a wholly different agenda than your own.

So I suggest you all educate yourself on the facts, get clear about what you believe, and dont fall prey to many of the outrageous claims you can read on this blog. Keep your eyes on the big prize. Dont let bitterness about which of the three wonderful schools to which you were assigned tempt you to 'cut off your nose to spite your face.'

I am a Springbrook parent. So does that make me hopelessly biased nosuchthingasneutral ? Perhaps. But I tell you I am genuinely torn. I would rather see my children go to a smaller school and I have no academic or social worries about WVHS. But I am far closer to NVHS, and I KNOW that this will be a convenience. So am I pleased with the current outcome? I suppose so. But there are pros and cons to everything. And I would like to believe that if they shoe were on the other foot, I could see that. And I really see very little evidence of that kind of generosity on this board. And that is a little sad.

Owen Parent
Agreed - many of the comments here obviously contain more entertainment value than anything else.
However, trust is something that needs to be earned by every person or governing body that touches the public. I would encourage you to not be so quick to accept what the board has in in store for us, particularly if you are slated to go to Metea. You say you lost on 3 counts so far. Well, what kind of a loss is it to everyone if kids get sick down the road? What kind of loss is it if the district has to pay ongoing remediation costs for the site to keep it "acceptable"? That land has not been declared as "safe" by anyone except Dr. Daeschner. At the meeting it was confirmed by an admin. representative that several soil samples came back with unacceptable levels of contamination caused by diesel fuel. Remediation must take place. During public comment, several people in the field of science spoke to this concern, as well as EMT levels which, at some point, were also found to be above standard acceptable levels. No one from admin. or the board addressed this point with any data and only agreed to post testing results on the website when available. Is that really acceptable to you? It's not to me. This is what the "let's wait" pleas are based on. Also, wouldn't it be nice to know if we are actually even going to have enough money to build the school as promised (equal to the others)? Right now, that is another big question mark due to pending damages on BB that will not be known until AFTER the district wants to close on the Eola land deal. What good is a school that you can't finish and/or operate? Again, it's a few weeks away. We need to wait. Please consider that the community, otherwise labeled as selfish, entitled, etc. might be looking out for you more than you think. Yes, let's move on, but let's not make hurried mistakes. Let's be truly intelligent.
Lastly, all of the involvement and discontent on the part of people in this district, no matter what their cause, is actually a good thing. It's a lesson in civics. It's good to be involved in meetings and planning, but things shouldn't stop there. People have every right and responsibility to stay concerned and stay involved however they see fit. People are always going to stick up for themselves, for their beliefs, and they should. Read the article in Thursday's Sun about a plan to build a shopping center on a corner of Naper Blvd. A much smaller fish than affecting thousands of lives for years to come. How surprising - in this fight a nearby church thinks the added parking lot, security, and fire hydrant the new building promises will be great. Meanwhile the nearby residents are fighting it, expresing concerns about added traffic through their neighborhood.
This is the way it works.

Why doesn't 204 break out all the seniors attending COD Frontier instead of WV or NV? Could it be because they don't want you to see that enrollment at the HS level actually declinded when you factor in all the empty seats due to seniors attending COD Frontier instead of WV or NV. Could it be that the enrollment projections they used to "sell" you the 3rd high school were all wrong or simply made up?

How much would a couple more portable classrooms for the middle school have cost us?

P.S. I oisted this eralier, aking sure everyone sees it.

I don't need any posters on this site to tell me the Eola Road site is not safe. Mark Metzger said so himself.

http://www.ipsd.org/documents/204LandWP.pdf

The northeast parts of the site are immediately adjacent to two high energy electrical
switching substations. That means relatively high electromagnetic radiation would be
present at that location. The original location of the Patterson Elementary school in sight
of electrical power lines caused uproar over the possibility that electromagnetic radiation
might create health issues for the students, and the site was moved to its current location.
While the Patterson site created the possibility of exposure to electromagnetic radiation,
the Eola/Molitor site is somewhere between a probability and a certainty for exposure to
such radiation. Although the scientists studying the question of whether such exposures
do or do not create health concerns continue to disagree, the Board sees no advantage in
constructing a third high school in such a location if there is any possibility of
abandonment for health reasons.

To: Owen Parent - right on! Good synopsis and conclusion. You are in the majority. (Apparently not the majority of the bloggers here, but certainly in the majority of my subdivision - High Meadow).

Of course now that I have given my subdivision name there will no doubt be comments that I am a "south sider" or really don't have a right to comment because my kids won't be bussed or some other reason to discount what I say. I am a parent in this district and care about all the schools. I feel bad for those hurt by the re-districting, but agree that a third high school is needed.

My kids are kindergarden age and the "hot" topic now is all day school for them as well as class size. Some think that the current kindergarden class size of 27 is too large and needs to be smaller. Seems ironic that when kids are 5-6 years old we want small class sizes and when they reach High School it is how many we can cram into the schools utilizing every available space.

Some see a drop in enrollment as a sign that the future holds some kind of mass exodus from Naperville and therefore the third high school is not needed. Current IPSD projections have Neuqua having 3967 students in 2011 with WV and MV in the 2600+ range. Without the third school this would put NV in the 5000 student range and WV at 4000. If you want to discuss property values then, ask someone how they would like to move into a city where their child will be 1 of 5000! If enrollments decline slightly, would it really be so terrible to have "only" 3500 students at NV and 2500 at each of the other two schools?

The third school is needed, the boundaries have been set, and we need to work at keeping Naperville one of the premiere cities in the U.S.

Sorry to ramble on, but I simply wanted to support what "Owen Parent" wrote and also to let TG and WE know that I and many of my neighbors support you guys.

@nosuchthingasneutral: I brought up D203 because your argument about "geographical logic" doesn't stand up to a map. If you're in favor of saying 'send BB there and Plainfield there' then conversely you should also be in favor of 'sending Naperville to D203'. "Geographically", there are homes in D204 closer to D203 schools and if you are just going by what community people live in, then wouldn't it make sense to consolidate all of Naperville in one District?

The homes in Bolingbrook that are in D204 are both geographically AND travel distance-wise CLOSER to NEUQUA VALLEY than BOLINGBROOK HS. I suppose you'd then say those houses should go to the Plainfield school? But they are in Bolingbrook, not Plainfield, so how does that change the D204 argument?

And when we redraw D204 to be Naperville-Aurora only, will be include those homes being built over on Montgomery Road that go to Allen Elementary along Farnsworth that are 'geographically' closer to WVHS than East Aurora High. If we're doing this based on geography, then shouldn't they come to D204?

Bolingbrook HS is brand-new and overcrowded already (see BB Sun article from July). Plainfield is building two new schools just to handle their expected enrollment. D203 has old and crowded schools that need to be expanded. None of them wants to take on new students from D204 just so D204 can be a 'Naperville-and-parts-of-Aurora-that-can-afford-it' school district.

Besides, by the time you would get legislature to move on redistricting and fight all of the lawsuits that would ensue, Metea will have graduated its third or fourth graduating class, at least.

Hi nosuchthngasneutral:
I live in River Run and wouldn't mind being zoned out of Neuqua and into a smaller school. Over 3900 kids is still too many and lots of families here sent faxes/emails/letters to the Board to say so. Don't assume that everything is peaches & cream for us because our high school designation isn't changing.

In all honesty, I think the Macom site could have worked had the Board pursued it more vigorously, and the location would have made a lot more sense with the population distribution. Even if the overall acreage was slightly less than what they wanted, I'm sure some type of compromise could have been reached. Don't know the history here, but I get the feeling that the SB is somewhat perturbed with the Macom developer. I guess the additional influx of students from Ashwood was more than the Board could deal with. A few families here considered heading to Ashwood to build new homes and enjoy that fab clubhouse, but those dreams were dashed when the high school boundaries got sticky. For now, some of us will stay put and then request a transfer before our kids are high school age. I've had enough of this in-fighting between sub-divisions (our "friends" in affected neighborhoods keep telling us how "lucky" we are), incompetence of the Board, and overall hostility.

Naperville just ain't the town I thought it was. Time to move on.

Can anyone who knows the details behind the 4 parcels of land they chose from, tell me why they didn't look into the Oswego property more seriously? Because it was out of district?

Thank you!

It is sad to be a parent from TG and consistantly be told we are all spoil brats. First of all I did not vote yes for the new High School. I studied the numbers and felt the elementary numbers were declining and there could be a less expensive temporary fix. Second as a parent I would much rather have my child travel 1.5 miles to school versus 5.5 miles and over a RR track that will likly have increase rail travel by more than 400%. Also, as a parent I want my child to be able to attend a High School with the friends they made in Middle School and not have to try and make new friends all over again in High School. With all the pressures that school children are exposed to today, being forced to longer commute times and trying to "fit" in a new school without any of their fellow subdivisions students whether that would be NVHS, WVH, or MVH is very difficult, especially if you are transfering in as a Soph. The board was respectfully asked to take a step back and spend alittle more time looking at all the options. Maybe if they did this back in 2006 with the BB property we would not be in this position today. So if caring about my child's future and well being makes me a "spoiled brat" in the eyes of some, I will proudly wear that title. But, I will never get over the injustice this board has placed on my child. I also felt that this board treated the parents unfairly in Brookdale at the last boundary issues, they did not want to be an island and neither do we. P.S. To all of the anonymous, if you want to speak poorly of your fellow neighbor at least have the courage to sign your name or do not comment!!!!! Put the blame on the people who earned this title the board.

To nosuchthingasneutral...

The "northerners/Stonebridge" was in favor of the refferendum overwhelmingly the first time. I don't know where you are getting your facts but I live in this area and know they realized the need for a 3rd high school. Please people get your facts straight before you speak without knowledge instead of hearsay and made up projections.

The 5 contaminated samples information was presented at the boundary meeting. The presentation by the district's project manager is around the 2:57:30 mark in the video feed available on the district's website.

I want to applaud the efforts of those who attempted to stop the foolishness of the Indian Prairie school redistricting. Your passion and drive has been inspiring. Unfortunately, you were up against an arrogant School Board that has never been held to account. Perhaps your energies could be better spent opposing current Board Members running for re-election, or working to defeat the Districts next referendum, which is now required to pay for a third high school that was never needed?

New site should should be south west. If they rule out the far north new school site, that means a new boundary proposal! I would think so, unless they are as incompetent as we think. Especially if they go with that safe and "as cheap" piece of land off of 111th to the west. Oswego, I believe. I can't wait to see River Run, High Meadow, Whispering Estates, Harmony Grove, Saddle Creek, & Tamarack/West join in on the district #204 boundary fun. I think I just named the new school (Oswego)attendees along with Ashwood Creek.

Hey Owen Parent!!!

You go Girl! Or Boy!

Finally a generous, thoughtful comment from someone who is looking out for their own family AND is concerned about the overall health and well being of the district.

Most of the rest of you should be ashamed.

To Yoooohooo:

Thanks for noticing. I repeatedly bring up my "demographics" because so many are hiding behind their "anonymous" when they they make a commment blog. I think every perspective comes with some hidden agenda and self promotion, regardless of what one says. Every blog here should be accompanied with your grade school tag. That would be anonymous enough and definitely people can lie. But it's better than having the rest of us guess where you are from and blame every anti-boundary comment on TG or WE.
I
I truly believe that EVERYONE is looking out for themselves. I watched things unfold at last year's public boundary meetings. I saw people's view flip on particular boundary proposals based on their own personal gain or loss. I saw people try the emotional argument (poor Georgetown can't go to their closest school) but whip around and blame another neighborhood for being emotional for wanting the same. I heard people in an Owen neighborhood complain last year that it was only for the children, that we desperately needed the new school because of overcrowdedness, no matter what longer commutes were created to this year SUDDENLY become an advocate of not a longer commute FOR "US" and actually secretly being shocked that they weren't put at Neuqua. I saw Brookdale outraged at being an orphan split middle school, staying at WVHS and SUDDENLY this year "everything's just fine" to have that happen to someone in another neighborhood, as long as it's not US. I saw Northerners/Stonebridge express their doubt that we needed a new school at all in 2006-07, but SUDDENLY this year we should rush on the site evaluation and "get over it" because Metea is in their yard. Despite the population density not being there and causing a transportation mess.

I am trying to objectively listen to what people are saying and point out where they may have forgot that their comments are truly their own biased opinion. I voted "yes" a couple years back when that referendum went "no". I attended every public meeting last year and was undecided (refrained) last year because I really couldn't figure out the mess that was going on. Today I identify with certain issues with certain neighborhoods and know how I would feel if it were me. I am a logical person who likes facts and figures and proof and objectivity and do not like people who "argue" with diversion, namecalling, "give it to the Man" mentality and pointing fingers at people for doing things they would do themselves. I also do not like reverse discrimination. I have gone out of my way to teach my children to accept all people regardless of race, religion, sex or economic status, but in turn see neighborhhods of this town turn it in to a battle against the "have mores" no matter what they say. People bought their houses with certain expectations - it doesn't say in that little box in the MLS, HIGH SCHOOL : any 204 school. It says a XXX high school, and you decide if that's at risk for some reason brewing in the school district politics. When I bought my first home in Naperville the box said WVHS and I was fine with that. Actually to be truthful, I really didn't care in that my two kids were in diapers. Later that box became NVHS. P.S. I don't live in that house anymore. Am willing to provide my grade school tag if others are.

Owen Parent....

Amazing and RIGHT ON POINT!!! About time someone gets it right!! Thank you, you speak for the majority!!!

I'm in a hurry....BRING ON THE NEW HIGH SCHOOL!!! WOOOHOOOO

Glad my kids won't be attending NVHS sardine can. I say end this all and let those TG residents go to NVHS if they want. It comes down to geography and distance, does it really? You'd rather your kids go to a high school with 3900 kids then a high school with 2600 kids? Really? If your kids are such over acheivers and perfect students wouldn't they do much better in a smaller environment with more opportunities for extracurricular activities and rank higher when it comes time to go to college?

Let's create some scenarios shall we? Your NVHS kid is a good soccer player. Because the competition is so steep and so many kids go out for soccer he's a backup at best. However, all is good because you can walk to games because you're only a 1 1/2 miles away, use the pedestrian bridge why don't you, although you might never see him play. On the flip side, at WVHS competition isn't as bad, only 75-100 kids go out for soccer instead of the 200+ at NVHS. Heck, he might even be good enough to get a starting position. Oh, I'm sorry though you'll have to drive 5.9 miles which might take you 15 minutes tops on a weekend to drive to WVHS to see his game. Wait, you might get stopped by a train, hope you obey those crossing signals and don't get hit, I've been driving for 25 years and those train tracks can be so dangerous. But that too far and scary for you, guess you'll have to miss your straight A student being a starter on the soccer team.

Sorry I'm not making the connection?

I can't believe the comments of some people in this supposedly well educated district! Get your facts straight!

I have been involved in many parent/district discussions on the high school proposals and the numbers warrant a third HS. The numbers validate the academic strengths that will be present at each high school. There are so many posters that are just absolutely wrong in their statements. Where Dr. Daeschner's daughters attend HS, for example. He came into this district and purchased a home based on the assumption that MVHS would be built on the BB site. When that site no longer was a fiscally responsible site, another site had to be chosen. BB was still considered, but at a price tag of almost double what it was thought to be, it became more prudent to look at alternative sites. One was a site that was owned by multiple owners, another not even in the district, and the current site. Of those remaining three sites, I feel the best site was chosen and the board has already approved the site. That means my commute to the new school will be considerly more, but it's still the best alternative site. Being an Owen west parent, I would have much preferred the BB site, but it is off the table. Moving on. Besides, we did not vote on the LOCATION of the third HS, we voted on spending $124M to BUILD a third HS. Building outside of our approved budget would have outraged us all! So I think the administration and board should be commended for their fiscal integrity and their responsibility to the D204 public to find another site within D204. I voted for the referendum when we though the HS would be at BB, and I stand behind that decision now, even though we will have to drive past one of the existing HS's in order to get to MVHS. After all, I voted to spend the money on the high school to be built, not the BB site and the proposed boundaries itself.

As for Mr. Metzger saying that "he didn't have to do this", he's right. It was a school board meeting that is open to the public. There was time for public comment, which was generously allowed when it did not have to be. It was the right thing to do, though, but again, we were not "entitled" to the privledge. And after the proceedings that took place 2 years ago, I'm very surprised that we earned that privledge back. It was embarrassing then and it was embarrassing Tuesday.

Many of us didn't get our preferred choice of location, commute time, or the wish to have our children stay with their friends. I lost out on all three. However, I still think my children will get wonderful opportunities by having a 3rd HS instead of only 2. We need to unite as a community now and move on.

I get a kick out of how the unhappy minority believes they are the majority of the district. I'm also willing to be that those of you who are unhappy were happy when things were going your way 2 years ago? You are not the majority just like the last group that was unhappy 2 years ago. Deal with it. As someone earlier mentioned I don't recall thousands of familes attending the last board mettings as they did 2 years ago.

Hmmmm...don't you think if the unhappy group was larger there would have been more of a showing at the board meeting? I do!!! That should tell you something right there.

Arch has no more information than what you can find yourself. There were 5 light detections of diesel fuel out of 66, and they indicated they were all in the same area. Easily remediated.
Although many who are unhappy with the boundaries, location, etc will play up make believe environmental concerns to prove otherwise.

This should calm some fears. New 204 FAQ.

http://ipsdweb.ipsd.org/News.aspx?id=17711

Some people are calling for a re-vote. I don't think this can happen until Nov. '08. Won't that be too late.

Let us know if it can happen sooner.

MH writes that "we really ARE trying to build a HS by Fall 2009. There is a hurry."

I am not sure who the "we" MH is referring to but as a member of the 204 community I am not in a hurry.

Why should we be in a hurry? So the district can screw up again? All the rushing around and inability to listen to members of the original referendum committees is why we are in this mess in the first place. There is no reason to rush for 2009, this was an excuse used by some to avoid the logical site of BB or further south.

If the posts about 600 seniors expressing interest in attending Frontier are correct, then with proper planning, the existing HS schools can easily handle the few extra students coming out of the MS level. The actual number of students attending the main HS campuses will decline if that many seniors opt to attend Frontier instead.

The only rush would be for the district to get the HS built and shut down the WV freshman campus before eveyone realizes the whole thing is a mistake.

Nothing needs to be rushed and we should not pay extra to speed up the building. Just rent 1 or 2 extra portable classroom for the MS level if they are really needed, there is plenty of capacity at both the ES and HS level.

Heck, Peterson ES alone has over 350 empty seats and the 3rd high school at Frontier is a big hit with our high schoolers who can earn HS and college credits at the same time.

So, what's the rush when their is no credible need?


Anonymous 11:28


We're you affected by the boards decision in a negative way? If you were not, who are you to tell others what they should do. Until you walk in their shoes you really can't comment.


To reggie,

I must say the SB has gone out-of-the-way to get some supporters like you. They must have done something definitely to please you, or are having them talk to concerned people on their behalf.

By the way, how good or bad the board is, one gets to know only from decisions such as this. This is only when one gets to judge them.

I am glad that things have worked out in your favor this time. Yes, as per your suggestion, if I run for the school board, it will definitely not be something that suits you.

I am Anonymous 11:28. Someone asked if i was a school board member. No I am not, I am just one representatives of thousands of families in this district that appreciates the job has been doing. I have now and have back before 2006.

I only saw approximately 450 people at the last school board meeting regarding boundaries. By the way these are numbers as reported by the newspapers. I was upstairs and downstairs and would say it was more like 200-250. Back in 2006 families filled up gyms and auditoriums. That says to me that the vast majority are also happy with these decisions with that board.

So I hope those complaining the loudest (you know who I'm referring to I don't think I need to mention the neighborhood) do try your lawsuits and try to delay the 3rd HS. Then you will see those thousands of families express their disgust in your "I'm not happy until I get what I want" attitude".

Arch, please post where you are getting your information? I have not read or seen anything on what you speak of. If you have additional access to information on the testing that has taken place at the Eola site please let us all know.

By the way may I ask if your children will be attending MVHS?

This post is only for those who were and still are in favor of a 3rd HS being built but are opposed to the MV site because of environmental issues, not because it is so far north.....


What are your thoughts on alternatives? (Again, just those of you who want a 3rd school building.) BB is an awesome location but obviously over budget. Drove passed the Macom property and have to ask what are the EMF readings from this site? If indeed the soil can be cleaned up at Eola site and it is EMFs that will be a continuing concern, I fear that the Macom site wouldn't alleviate that concern for many. It is also right beside the tracks (albeit before, not beyond them.)

Land is scarce and what is left is left for a reason it seems. Much of it is indeed undesirable or too expensive as in the BB case.

Boy...you have to love the limited support from SB backers on the blog. They are also so well thought out. Their answer to everything is "get over it". That is about a bright as "no duhhh".

Rather than make uninformed comments like many above, I have read no comment that provides any good reason why this site is a good idea and great for IPSD. Remember $150 million dollars is going to be spent or is that just play money!

Could it be that there is no support for this site, this board, and this super? Could it be that this site is a mess and should not be built on? Garbage in gets garbage out! Good luck getting your backers in line when there is a vote to cancel the previous referendum and block this school site or getting another referendum passed again. When there is no money to fill the school that Metzger/Clark built, will the answer for you be "get over it"?

i have been reading these blogs for a few days and been puzzled by something......nosuchthingasneutral.... you go out of your way in every post to point out you have no dog in this fight. you insist that others declare their neighborhoods so you can judge their motives. why such passion?

i have a theory ......but its just a theory....and i would like to test it.....

how did you vote on the referendum ? were you affiliated or involved in organizing on either side of the issue?

Slow down? The refferundum passed, residents recognized that a 3rd HS was needed and I wrong in this statement? No where did it say any where that those boundaries that were decided in 2006 would be what is done 2 years later. If you didn't realize that then and make your vote purely on the fact that we need a 3rd high school then you shouldn't have voted or voted to not have the 3rd HS. As I recall during a meeting in 2006 we were told this. Now because you didnt' get "your way" you're rasing all these issues to try to derail everything you voted for.

Regardless of what an independent third party expert says the IPSD is still going to do what they believe is the right thing for the district based on all the critera they have laid out dozens of times and I don't feel the need to reiterate those critera. There has been statistics ran to validate their decisions and unfortunately some are not happy, that will happen with your independent third party expert or without them.

I do believe that the decisions made would stand up to review and/or wouldn't change things significantly like those who are unhappy would hope. So once again "get over it" and "move on" you're only making yourself look like big whiners.

Anonymous 11:28


Are you a school board member? Sounds like it.

Sad in 204 wrote:

Let's put blame squarely where it belongs: Daeschner, Metzger, Tyle, Bradshaw, Vickers, Stephens, Clark & Glawe and stop blaming each other.

==================================================================

Hello, have you ever even gone to a SB meeting?. Chris Vickers was the only one who consistently warned that the school site was not set, the boundaries could be changed, she had reservations about the data the district used to "sell" the 3rd HS, and that there were other options the district had not properly pursued.

Well, the site did change, the boundaries did change, elementary school enrollment will likely decline for the 3rd year in a row this fall, and over 600 seniors have expressed interest in attending Frontier this fall.

In my opinion, Ms. Vickers is the only board member who has demonstrated the ability for independent thought and decision making which is fiscally responsibile.

What's the Hurry,

The board has made some tough decisions that would stand up to neutral professionals. Sometimes neutral professionals have to make tough decisions as well!

Also, we really ARE trying to build a HS by Fall 2009. There is a hurry.

My kids are going to the school of their choice and closest to their house after the boundary decision. I am okay with paying more taxes for right decisions for our community. But guess what? I think the SB is untrustworthy, has personal agendas, and was incompetent in regards to the new school site selection and boundary process.

The SB refused to allow an independent firm to come in to propose how the boundaries should be drawn that optimized their criteria. A computer could do it better! We could have the AP kids at both high schools do it! There were some resident proposals that did it better, and the SB refused to listen because of personal agendas.


They also refused to listen to much cheaper alternative proposals that do not require that the school be built at all. Yes, last year, the community voted that capacity was needed, and at that time, the only choice "on the ballot" was a new school. It was kind of like vote for one choice and love it and never look back, even if conditions change. A new schoool was determined to be needed when condition of enrollment projections were different (and wrong then too). I think their needs to be a re-vote! If it holds as "yes" to a new school on that site, based on the new enrollment projections then we can really move forward and "get over it"

Actually, TG lost 3 times vs. most others who lost 0 times (besides Still split, Owen driving distances, Peterson elem. split - all of which had improvements made). TG is an island going to Waubonsie from MS by themselves, lost freshmen center, and will commute now instead of going to closer school. If the school board is so effective, they could have found a way to even out neighborhood inconveniences. They just decided that vote-wise, it would be better to have one subd. upset only so they don't lose votes on operating levies. I don't think it's a case where TG didn't get their way. They were just asking to have things done fairly across the board. So TG moves to Waubonsie . . . why not then address the MS split and make it a little more even. When they were slated to go to Metea, Scullen was being split in half (WE & TG to Metea and Peterson & Welch to NV). Now they just cut off TG since WE is now at Still.

to nosuchthingasneutral

There are plenty of people concerned about the environmental condition and safety of the site who really are assigned there, myself included.

So far, our concerns have been validated with the phase2 samples showing diesel fuel oil contamination in multiple spots. If there was not a concern each sample would have come back clean. They did not. These spots need to be legally remediated and certified safe for the purpose of a school before construction should begin.

One other thing slipping below people's radar is that when the peaker plant is removed later this year there is again the possibility of contamination. It will have to be remediated again. In an ideal world, this should be entirely completed and cleaned up with the plant completely removed before a purchase contract is signed and construction begins. The administration is taking another leap of faith that it will be ok for a school site when that work is all said and done.

I highly doubt MWGEN will allow for an un-capped amount of money for remediation in their sales contract. The District is acting foolish, in many people's opinion, purchasing something before it's cleaned up. If something prevents it from moving forward later as a school site, every dollar spent is again flushed down the toilet. At least there will be symmetry if that happens.

The SB reply is now available.

http://ipsdweb.ipsd.org/Subpage.aspx/OnDemandVideo

Perhaps those that are challenging the recent decisions by the SB are right. Perhaps they are not. What is being requested is that the SB slow down and have independent, third party experts provide their input on the big issues. To date, the SB has not provided any meaningful statistics to either validate their decisions or refute the concerns being raised by the taxpayers. For those that say that others need to "get over it" and "move on", do you not have confidence that the decisions made by the SB would stand up to review by truly neutral professionals?

anonymous 10:28, anonymous 10:35

Who said anything about the school district being just a Naperville District? who even brought up #203 being just a Naperville District? Actually read and digest the comment, so you know what you're responding to...

I said maybe they should re-district. and send the geographical logical pieces to their geographical logical schools. If it results in #204 being left with just Naperville AND Aurora (missed that one, didn't ya?) going to Naperville and Aurora located schools, so be it. If geographical sense has other towns in still the district, so be it. (My comment is assuming that the new school is going to be where it is planned, which is in Aurora.

love your "get over youself" comment. Irrelevant and namecalling of a different source. Seems to me you are harboring issues against certain neighborhoods for reasons other than schools.

I agree with what Anonymous said to Irritated Mom.

Leave the school board alone and stop trying to blame them. The majority of the district does have confidence and trust in them. You're just not happy because you didn't get what you wanted. I would have thought by now at your age you would have realized that happens some times.

To: Irritated mom
"This school board is a bunch of bureaucrats out there to serve their own personal interests. We should all pull out a vote of no-confidence in this board, not let them believe that people will shut-up as time goes by. Let us show them our mettle."

Seems like a majority of these board members were already on the board before we even stated talking about the boundaries over 2 years ago. You didn't seem to have a problem with them then? In fact, at that point I'm sure you were quite proud of the job they were doing. I don't recall people calling for their heads like they are now.

It is a disgrace that you blame people that are doing this because they also care about their district not their personal interests. They also have familes and live in this district, you don't think they want what is best for everyone? Regardless if you believe it or not they are trying to do what is right for the majority of the district, not the minority. I haven't heard any complaints from those still attending NV and I haven't heard many complaints from those about to attend the new MV, except for Owen parents, which I understand. 90% of the complaints are coming from those in TG who now have to attend WV.

What you seem to be saying is that we get a bunch of people elected to the school board that will have only "your" interests represented. Look at the population of your neighborhood, while you are a large community you don't nearly represent the majority. Time to move on and not harbor this attitude and hate towards a school board that is doing thier best.

Complain all you want and try to show your muscle but what is done is done. Maybe in the future you can run for school board and do what you feel is only right for you...and screw everyone else?

To answer with kevin:

When Metea opens up in 2009 there will only be Freshmen and Sophomores in the building. NO JUNIORS OR SENIORS IN THE BUILDING. The only class that is effected is the Freshmen class of 2008-2009, they will be the ones moving.

Sorry but your wrong on making it a "Naperville District". Naperville DOES NOT have their own district in 203. 203 feeds parts of Warrenville, Woodgridge, Bolingbrook and Lisle. Look at their boundar map. So please Naperville stop pretending you live in Pleasantville.

Mayor Pradel you need to calm your town. Their heads are way to big for their shoulders.

I think I have to agree with the comment that Those who are saying that the new site is environmentally unfit are the Those who aren't going there. Nice ploy on their part, I have to admit.

But I also know that the Ones who say it's okay to split up middle schools and change students from their closest schools are the ones ("get over it, move on, it's great to meet new friends when you're a teenager with insecurities, they'll never walk that bridge, blah blah ) are the Ones who aren't having to split their schools, and be bussed away from their closest (walking) school.

Again, I live in in unafffected neighbrohood with the boundary changes. Where do you live when you make your anonymous comments?

In answer to Kevin and kids stay where they started high school:

It was stated at the meeting that their will be NO grandfathering of students...once the school is open all district boundaries are in place...so if you have a 9th or 10th grader they go to their new boundary school not the school they started at.

By the way Naperville may use the name Naperville District 203 but don't forget that also feeds into Bolingbrook, Lisle, Warrenville & Woodrdige look on their feeder map. So Naperville DOES NOT have their own district. So please Naperville get over yourselves.

Moderator Jim:

"Take a hike from this blog?"

Again, if you want people to think you are a professional group of people, you need to act like it. Otherwise, people will assume you're not - and you can't blame them.

And Britt Carson's snickering was not professionl. I watched her do this several times.

Great Taste!

Less Filling !

What's your favorite color ? Red....no..BLUE...AAAARRRGGHHH.

Mom...Johnny took my toy and wont give it baaaack!!

If I dont get to be team captain I am taking my ball and going home!

"I'm not happy. "
"Me neither."
"I have a good idea!"
"What is it?"
"Let's blame somebody!"
"How about the school board?"
"Great Idea!"

"I have another idea."
"What is it?"
"Lets blame and demonize THEM."
"Who is THEM?"
"Who cares? As long as it isn't US!"

blah blah blah blah.

1. We need a new school. At least that what the majority of those who voted agreed when they voted for one.
2. It has to go somewhere.
3. No location is perfect.
4. Somebody will be unhappy.
5. I am sorry that somebody is you but......
6. Please stop whining.

Without doubt, this has been a nightmarish experience. We have traveled all over United States and have had extensive experience with a number of school districts. There have been boundaries reassigned in other places too, but none that could have resulted in such a foul taste in our mouths. This school board is a bunch of bureaucrats out there to serve their own personal interests. We should all pull out a vote of no-confidence in this board, not let them believe that people will shut-up as time goes by. Let us show them our mettle.

Recently, an extremely well-known school district in Dallas is also contemplating opening a new high school due to over-crowding. However, the way things have been handled there is so much more mature and well-thought of. It has not resulted in SB coming out as a "winner" and rivalry amongst various subdivisions. This particular school district in Dallas is opening the new high school with even better facilities and more AP programs, more academic challenges etc. to lure people to shift their kids from the existing high school (only if they want to). Since the programs are so attractive, many kids are doing it voluntarily and it is very different than being thrust-upon with a decision. I wish this SB had some foresight.

Let us all unite and show this board what we can do. Let us jointly come up with a plan to make the SB apologize and withdraw.

Naperville Resident: Regarding your "me first society" comment. Sadly, this school board has shown us that it's kill or be killed. Owen East was forced to turn their back on their schoolmates with a petition to get a lifeline out of this mess and John Stephens willingly obliged. Metzger would never stand for splitting Steck - much closer to Radiation High than many areas - so Gombert and Owen get split and shipped north. You say neighborhoods weren't split? Talk to Ashwood. And Longwood? Howie retired so that neighborhood gets sliced up like swiss cheese and shipped off to various elementary schools.

I guess you could argue that we are a "me first society" because we elected these leaders that set the example for us.

People, our common enemy is right in front of us. They left us locked out and waiting in the cold! Let's put blame squarely where it belongs: Daeschner, Metzger, Tyle, Bradshaw, Vickers, Stephens, Clark & Glawe and stop blaming each other.

Dr Y, apology accepted. I retract my earlier comments.

For those still upset, it's time to move on.

You voted for a 3rd HS, nothing more, nothing less. You were shown PROPOSED boundaries in advance.

@newsiteneeded: Maybe we should make D204 a Plainfield-Aurora-Wheatland district as it was when it started and all the Naperville residents can go to D203: "The Naperville School District"?

When people bought their homes in Plainfield or Bolingbrook, all they were guaranteed was they were in D204 just like you. No one ever guaranteed there wouldn't be a new school coming and that people would not get moved. Remember, one of the sites considered for the new school was in BOLINGBROOK. One was in OSWEGO.

Two responses are very well written and right on about the whole point - Owen Dad Feb.20 1:56pm and TG Feb. 20 11:02am! The Superin. should never snicker and make faces. All speakers' plans should have been addressed as to why they couldn't possibly work. Why can't Scullen be a feeder school for Waubonsie? Why does Tall Grass need to be an island all by itself heading into high school? They found ways to make it work for the other schools. All they had to do was address why the Tamarack, Century Trace, etc. kids couldn't be put with Tall Grass. I know someone said there is a high ranking person with NV in Tamarack. I would hope the school board didn't pull them for that reason!

I find it ironic that in a town as independent and cosmopolitan as Naperville prides itself to be, we needed a new sheriff (Supt. Stephen Daeschner) in town from Kentucky to steer our ship away from the waterfalls (Brach-Brodie property). The straw that broke my camel's back was the attempt at "quick-take" power. If you were building a new home, would you start digging a hole for the foundation on land you didn't own or know the price of and then later be locked into that price after the concrete was dry? I hope y'all remember their names (Metzger, Clark) the next time they ask for your vote....only 17% of us showed up to vote last time. These people are in charge of millions of our tax dollars, so you only have yourselves to blame.

As for the boundaries....Nobody likes change except a wet baby, it's time for everyone to shut up and eat your broccoli !!!

Underlying the new boundary plan that has so many kids not going to their closest school is the fact that the North location is a illogical choice due to population density neededing schools. Change the location to mid or South and you have the ability to solve the closest school issue and cut down on the transportation.


Despite the new school site , maybe Illinois needs to pursue re -Districting (aka "act of God") to slove the geographic nightmare and get the ones who should be going to Naperville Central there and Plainfield to Plainfield and Bolingbrook to Bolingbrook because Plainfield and Bolingbrook have the capacity and are good schools and may become better with the new neighborhoods bringing some high test scores and Booster parents.(hey, isn't that the argument for why TG/WE shouldn't be mad for having to move to a new school). It would make geographic sense.

Oh wait a minute I FORGOT - when Plainfield and Bolingbrook bought their homes, they thought they were going to go to NVHS and they maybe paid a preminum ("developers rake it in for NVHS#204") for that, so you can't move them! (hey isn't that what the SB is doing to TG/WE?)

I know it is a multi-city school district, but that was because back when then is what was needed. Now it's not. Maybe it needs to just be a Aurora-Naperville district.

To 204 parent:

If the school doesn't open in 09, then the burden of going to NVHS for one year and then moving as sophmores transfers from the class of 2008 to 2009.

It simply isn't right to have kids start out at one school and then move to their rival - whether that't the class of 08 or 09. If they were opening a new school and starting new traditions, it would be different.

My observations at this point overall are:

1. This SB is completely out of control. They were very arrogant on Tuesday night in multiple ways. Not moving the meeting to an auditorium was an obvious attempt to keep people away. M2 banging on the gavel to silence the crowd and yelling that he didn't "have to do this" was embarrassing. This man needs to remember that the taxpayers of the district fund the schools. If there are a group of taxpayers that have concerns (and I don't care where they are from), they have EVERY right to be heard. If he doesn't want to hear them, he should RESIGN. Who made him king?

2. For Dr. D to start the meeting with accusations of entitlement set the tone. And it told us under no uncertain terms what this administration thinks about us. I am incredibly insulted. These people would like our children to sit on a bus for more than an hour a day to to build a "new WVHS" and fix the academic parity. This is quite simply reprehensible. Our children's (and all the children of the district's) job is to be a student. The district's job is to educate them - all of them. Using children to make the district look better is revolting. I left that meeting feeling that these people do not care one iota about the children from the SW part of the district - because it's clear they hate the parents.

3. Which brings me to my next point, attacking the SW part of the district is just a smokescreen to obscure what's really going on here. It's convenient to make someone the "enemy" so everyone feels better about them getting the shaft. It also creates a diversion from the real issues.

4. I think there will be lawsuits. And I think the people who got what they wanted out of this deal are only "happy" because of that - and trying like crazy to get people to just accept it and move on. There are a multitude of problems with this whole scenario beginning with the site and continuing to finances and other matters and I think they will be explored.

5. Lastly, to the Moderator, every time someone got up and spoke about the pedestrian bridge, Britt Carson giggled and whispered to the reporter sitting next to her. Until you guys hire some professional people, don't blame others for calling your paper a "rag".

Moderator Jim: That was uncalled for. If yoiu think we're a rag why don't you take a hike from this blog?

As a taxpayer to the State please STOP wasting my $ on your selfishness. Time to move on. I find it funny also that the ones wanting the law suit are those whose kids won't even be going to the school. so that tells me you are more upset about the location being up north. good luck in court.

There are many people who need to become educated. To the TGer with an 8 grader - your child will not be moved. 8th graders in TG start at NV and finish at NV. That has been true before the first referendum and remains true today. It's the same procedure followed by school districts across the country when a new high school is built.

Additionally, there are many people in the East Owen area who bought their homes before NV was opened. And there was an expectation that those areas would go to NV. They stayed at WV, but WV is a fine school with quality administrators and teachers. Many people in the East Owen area are happy for their children to remain at WV.

JK,

Do you honestly think a church will take adavantage of he school district it sends its kids to?? Please for everyones sake Please stop complaining! The decision has been made, no matter what decision that would have been made someone would be upset about it. Now that the boundries have been made, try to adjust to the situation. All of our kids will be going to great schools with great teachers and staff.

Anonymous 12:55


Not a resident of TG or WE, but believe that one of their arguments isn't just location like yours is, it is that they bought their homes thinking they would be going to NV when they did so. You all have always gone to WV so you had to have chosen your home with that knowledge.

Of course everyone has to live with the fact that in a growing community boundaries can change at anytime, and I'm sure at some point OE thought that when NV was built they would go there, but again, you were already at WV. I do think it would be harder to accept if you happened to be one of the TGers who were under 1.5 miles from driveway to bus drop off point to NV though, which is why I think we heard less from WE this time than TG.

Anonymous
Thank the school board? This school board? For someone who claims to have experience working with children, I hope it wasnt teaching a class on integrity? This board has made a mess of things, they continue to misinform, and they will continue to waste our time and money if something is not done.
For those who have inquired, legal and legislative efforts will be underway soon. If you want to be involved, there are many communities (yes many) that are getting together to correct this mess. For legislative efforts, contact your state senator for straters. I am told their are receptive people in Springfield eager to help. You can also call your HOA and find out if they are involved in any actions.
This is not about making "everyone happy". This is about stopping this district fom building on a garbage site for the sake of speed. Many have stated all the reasons why this site is a mess. None of this is made up.
Does anyone no much about this church selling the property. I would think a local church would want to do good for the community. If the district is being taken advantage of on price (for their great need for speed), there are at least ethical questions that should be raised. There also may be legal ones. The district said that this land "miraculously" became available. It makes you think?

Logical mom in 204,

you can't just think about today or the next 5-10 years as far as population goes. we need to look at long. one other post had a great comment. fast for 25-30 years when population and growth are down. we will more than likely need to close one school. so what sense does it make to have two schools in the southern end. with mv up north we will then have one in the south and one in the north.

unfortunatley for some this transition is hard on them now. but do we really want to get through this all over again when we are all ready to retire or for some us in retirment.

the SB needs to look long term and they have with the MV site. like it or not.

To anonymous Owen East parent who thinks they are entitled to NVHS because it's closer:

Where was your high school located when you bought your house in West Glen/Brighton Ridge? If you wanted to go to your closest school, pick a neighborhood that actually does. Of course the SB can always screw that up for you. Like if you are TG.

It's interesting as an Owen east parent that people would think we were overjoyed about going to WVHS. Yes, it's much better than MV but has anyone seen where we are located??? Why wouldn't we feed into Gregory and then Nequa, when you look at who our neighbors are, we travel the farthest from anyone. We're actually closer to Lincoln and Central which is where we should be going!

As a parent with kids in District 203, I can honestly say that I'm glad we don't live in 204. We bought a house in Naperville in 2000 and stayed away from 204 as it was obviously growing very quickly, with boundary and school changes an inevitable reality. At the same time, kids in 203 go to schools that are much older than any of those in 204 and the kids all seem to be doing fine. The decisions have been made and it seems like it's time for everyone to start getting involved in whichever schools their kids will be attending and make them the best schools possible, rather than fighting and keeping everyone from focusing on the kids and the great education they deserve.

Hey Cindy Krage (LOL),

Of course you know this transfer ONLY affects the class of 2012 and beyond...You get to STAYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!!

Have a cup of tea (decaf) and get some sleep......

Reading these comments has been a real experience. Just a couple of observations....

Folks, that BOE had a very daunting task. No matter what decision was made there was going to be some subdivision that was screaming because their parochial interests were not met.

The school board doesn't have the luxury of making everyone happy, much as I know they wish they could. They have to take a global look at the district and make the best decision they can, knowing full well that the people from the areas that did not have their agendas met would be screaming, making accusations, cursing at administrators and board members and making absurd accusations about unsafe conditions etc. If this discussion wasn't so sad it would almost be comical. The sense of entitlement of some folks here is just plain sad.

For those of you that are disappointed in the outcome I challenge you to acknowledge how you would feel if your requests had been met and how you would think the other people who were screaming are just ridiculous.

I have worked with children long enough to know that no matter what the boundaries are the kids will be fine as long as the parents embrace the opportunities that all of our schools offer and decide to proceed in a positive manner.

As a parent that has had kids attend both WV and NV I can tell you that they are both fabulous schools and Matea will be great as well.

I think people need to get over themselves and realize that their school community will be stronger if they decide that as parents they will work to make the transition for their kids an easy and positive one.

I can guarantee that the parents that are now fighting the move to WV will fall in love with that school and very soon will wonder why they ever fought the move.

We are blessed to have a situation where the children in our community will be provided with so many more opportunities with the addition of the new high school.

To the School Board......thank you for your hard work and diligence in what is quite often a thankless job.

For those interested in the 4 possible Metea land sites explored by the SB, check out the the bottom of the following link.

http://ipsdweb.ipsd.org/News.aspx?id=17229

The Macom and Hamman properties are clearly closer to the student population density point, which is clearly no where near Eola and Molitor. The chosen site is not acceptable. Shouldn't a 3rd high school significantly reduce travel times for our students and not require us to add buses to stay within "acceptable limits"? Wake up 204 - this is the crux of the problem (travel times, boundaries, etc.)!

To Cindy, From what I understand, Juniors and Seniors will not be affected by the changes. Metea will start out with a Freshman and Sophomore class in the year 2009. The Waubonsie changes will also not happen till then. The only class that will really feel the changes is the freshmen class that starts in 2008, if they are slated for a change they will start at Neuqua for example then move to Waubonsie after their freshmen year.
The School Board are hard working people who give of their time to help. We may not always agree with their decisions but they are not heartless.

Cindy,
When Matea opens in the fall of '09 it will be with sophomores and freshman only, meaning juniors and seniors will all remain at the current high schools through graduation. The administration is certainly not that insensitive.

Sad in 204,

I like your mutants. So then "Ladies and gentlemen prepare to be amazed and dazzled by the greatest shoooooow on earth earth earth...let's cheer on your RADIATION HIGH MUTANTS!" daa daa daa da da da (band playing) lights down low...suddenly you see a stream of light coming through the paper circle thing..no that's not a stream of light...that's our football team Margaret..put your lead suit on quick.

Naperville Resident, well spoken.

It's sad that people are willing to shut their eyes, or worse yet, their children's eyes to the real world. Just imagine how hard that transition to college will be if they have a dorm mate that is from the "other side of the tracks".

Hey Anonymous for the 100th time EVERY HIGH HAS A POLICE OFFICER OR TWO OR THREE. IT'S THE SIGN OF THE TIMES. IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE HIGH SCHOOLS YOU WOULD OF KNOW THAT.

Cindy,

You get the award for the post of the day.

Of course it is not necessary to disrupt the seniors and they should not have to move in their senior year.

There is plenty of space given the hundreds of seniors who are attending Frontier anyway.

Cindy wrote:

These students deserve the chance to stay at the school they currently attend. From sport teams, to music and drama activities, and school clubs, these senior students have formed relationships, and gained positions on teams that they deserve to keep, without the fear of losing them when the rug gets pulled out from under them, and they have to leave their beloved alma mater for a new school - in the last year of their high school career! What can the board be thinking?

Dear NYE Dolphins,

Thanks for the compliment. You made my day. Sorry about the blood boiling. I am just trying to get confirmation where the idiotic mess we are in bumbled up. I heard the goal was to build new high school then close WV. Who came up with this big idea?

Of course, it is a bad one because we do not need one and this has come out over the last 2 years (earlier if people just listened and paid attention).

I think some super folks live up north, but most people in the area are decent. A few individuals make it bad for everyone. I still see people addressing whole developments like "TG, you people are this", "WE, you are that".

This is not fair because there are about nearly 10,000 people living in WE/TG, and maybe 10 blogging I would bet. Surely one blogger is not representing a whole development. Oh well.

Anyway my apology again.

Dr. D has two daughters. The junior is at WVHS and his senior is enrolled at Frontier. THIS IS NOT A NEUQUA CAMPUS! The Frontier program is housed in the Fry office building adjacent to NVHS, but is a program for BOTH high schools for SENIORS only. The students remain counted with their home high school and will graduate from their home school. In addition to the block schedule M-Th classes, the students may also chose to take a class or two (such as a music or art) M-F at their home high school. This year there are about 250 students signed up at Frontier -- about 200 are from NVHS and 50 are from WVHS. Enrollment is expected to increase next year, but will remain no where near the 600 max capacity stated for the rented Fry space. FYI. I also understand that NEUQUA does assign students to the Fry building to take classes, but the school then is essentially using the space as portables. These students would not be considered in FRONTIER program.

What possible good can come from forcing senior students (in year 2009) to transfer out of their school to another high school? This is exactly what the board is imposing on our students who currently attend NV, and will be transferred to WV in 2009. These students deserve the chance to stay at the school they currently attend. From sport teams, to music and drama activities, and school clubs, these senior students have formed relationships, and gained positions on teams that they deserve to keep, without the fear of losing them when the rug gets pulled out from under them, and they have to leave their beloved alma mater for a new school - in the last year of their high school career! What can the board be thinking? It is extremely detrimental to these students to have to transfer in their last year. District 204 - how about a little consideration for the individual student?!! All of us are challenged by the boundary changes. No one really likes change. But how would you have liked to change schools your senior year? Is nothing sacred anymore? Do we really need to sacrifice these student's high school dreams and goals, so that a few classrooms will have a few less students? District 204 - simply heartless!

I feel ashamed that I have spent an hour reading this garbage... We were sold a bad bag of goods, lets sue, this district is horrible, bad location, toxic waste, my kids will be permanently ruined, possible railroad deaths, SB has hidden agendas, police officers in WV, pipeline issues, bad traffic, bridge issues, nobody lives up north except for.... lets see, Stonebridge, Harris Farms, Cambridge Chase, Oakhurst, Concord Valley, etc...... Where were all of you when the SB ran for election? Did you throw in your hat? It is very easy to second guess any decision(s). I remember the same garbage when Neuqua was being considered. This is ridiculous......

We are TG parents with an 8th grader.

What ever happens, happens. We've moved on to trying to make our child's high school experience a great one. If we are to go to WVHS, at least give the kid an option to start there as a freshman and not even have to sniff the Wildcat litter box. We want our child to have the fun of getting into the Warrior tradition from day one, developing under the leadership of upperclassmen, etc.. Of course, the parents who opt for this must provide their own transportation. We are more than willing to do this. It is cruel to force a child to start at a rival school and then force them across town. The student population at NVHS is so high now that the freshman sports teams cut. Can we believe that NV is going to invest any time developing kids that they will play against in two years?

We can't imagine why the District Administration would not allow for a continuous high school experience. After all, it's not like they are going to a new school where everyone is new (i.e. MVHS).

Senora - what were the differences you noticed between the two schools? ALot of people have been saying they are both great and the same in quality of education, teachers and student potential, and then evey once in awhile I hear someone like you say that there are differences. It's one thing for someone not to want to send their children to an equivalent school that is three times their current commuting distance, but if that school is inferior in any way, they may have other justified reasons for not wanting to go.

Nap Dad - Since when are minorities only african-americans? Scullen (WE/Fry/Welch) is very diverse.

Dr. Y?:

Radiation High - I love it - very catchy.

Macot could be the Golden Flashes or one of the XMen mutants.

When does the legal action begin to veto the referendum?

Our 204 Board honestly (so we thought) told us to vote "YES" & most did two years ago. Unfortunately, I am embarrassed to say our Board was not smart enough to negotiate a contract & now the referendum appears to be untrue. Thank God I did my homework & read between the lines to vote "NO". Unfortunately, I, like so many others have been SCREWED!

Annonymous 2, do you spend time at your library? if you did you would know that if you have a napv. card you could use the aurora library and vice versa. just thought you would like to know.

Contrary to what some people think of us folks up north we are proud of WV and read the papers. Our athletics have a lot to cheer about as well as our music and dance departments. If you read the papers you would of read that Dr. D's daughter is a swimmer on the WV team.

Don't believe everything you see and read, especially on line. If you are all so highly educated you would know this by now.


Stop with the school yard bullying.

My question to our Mayor...What damage control are you working on because your lovely city is going in the tank. Maybe you shouldn't have annexed that southern end into Napv. Sounds like you would of been better off.

Dear Disappointed Parents,

By reading the comments on this blog-it speaks volumes about the "me first society" that you live in and more importantly, the perpetuation of this mindset handed down to your children. Many of the parents who wrote that the boundaries aren't safe for their children are the same parents that don't place curfews on their children and they end us driving the streets at 3:00am with the drunk drivers returing from bars and casinos. And for you parents that are bias against Waubonsie, some of their graduates are the attorneys, physicians, business leaders and teachers that are serving you and your students in Naperville. Some of you parents believe your child will get a leg up on college admissions by being on the scoccer fields on sundays instead of church or by taking as many AP classes as possible versus volunteering in a homeless shelter. This country you are living in has been lead by dedicated citizens who worked extra jobs so their children could go to any school versus the closest to their neighborhood. As a parent, it is your role to speak with your child and explain that they are special and will excell in any school regardless of location if they apply themselves, work hard and do their best instead of sounding like the world is ending. Your children can learn a great deal from change and by attending a school where everyone doesn't look or sound like everyone from their block. I didn't attend the meeting last night because I have total trust in these decidated Board Members- and how many of you have the courage to sit on such a Board and make those decisions-all but one Board Member showed that courage. Naperville is a wonderful town, enjoy it and raise your children to complain less than their parents.

I find it funny that TG residents are now feeling "picked on" or the victims of unfair stereotyping and they can't figure out why. I say, where have you been the last two years??

Many residents of your neighborhood spoke publicly with such a sense of entitlement that we could only drop our jaws in disbelief. You probably had some great points to make, but unfortunately they were lost in the sickening snobbery. Even the president of your homeowners association had to publicly apologize during BB boundary meetings for much of his fellow neighbors' behavior. Unfortunately you lost our respect then and have never been able to gain it back. Also unfortunate is that I'm sure there are many very kind, down-to-Earth TG residents but the few that have spoken have made too great of a nagative impact.

In contrast, Brookdale residents (of which I am not one) on the last go-around with boundaries for BB and more recently the Owen population (not one of them either) have been able to successfully present their arguments without putting down the rest of our community or making it seem like their own children's need are the only ones that matter here as TG has done. Apparently, you highly-educated, highly-successful TG residents have missed one valuable lesson: how to use TACT!!! The old adage, "you get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar" is one I have always lived by. You should try it, really!!

As a public relations professional, I will tell you that your reputation is this community is like a train reck out of control. It is not in your best interest to now spearhead a campaign to have all your kids purposly fail the ISAT or begin the process of legal action against the school board. It will only dig you deeper into this hole you're in.

I suggest what would do you some good is to collectively as a neighborhood spend some time working as Hesed House or better yet take a summer retreat with Habitat For Humanity. This certainly would be a good thing for both parents and kids and might open your eyes a little. Maybe while you're gone the school board will get some work done!!

What other properties were available for the 3rd HS besides BB and the 95th St./248th St. location (is that the "Macom" site? That is near a lot of power lines and a huge power station as well....)

Would like to know what other options people could be pushing for.

Thanks!

BTW- What are the EMF readings near NV Freshman campus with those lines?

to Darkie,

You want to expand on that? The info isn't true, we have not been mislead because of x, y, z. Come on you can do better than that - or are you afraid to challenge openly. Come on my friend, dispute the commentary with some commentary.

I am including Frontier campus in my numbers so I do not understand the issue about "get your numbers straight". If you mean WV will have less than the 3600 you are right considering how badly the SB/admin is with numbers, but don't forget the growing areas are being sent to WV (the ones that will actually grow). If they do, then we have a problem. I think we will be tighter than NV. In other words perhaps we should not be moving as many prople out of NV where we know room exists.

It sounds like we were misinformed 2 years ago during the referendum vote (silly me to have trusted the board). Simple question -- how do we stop the board from going through with the third high school? Is it possible to vote on the referendum again?

"Build a small school - say 2000 students - for the small but obviously demanding northern residents (who while I know a few - I assume they must be pursuasive to help drive the district into wasting $380 million - you have my respect for that)." - Dr. Y

As a north-side bystander to the carnage that's underway, taking some shrapnel on this one really got my blood boiling -- until I saw who posted it. Then I calmed back down.

Dr. Y, I doff my hat to you, you truly represent yourself as the biggest idiot on this board. You've had to work extra hard to win this honor.

We're lucky, we live equidistant from MV and WV. No RR's. No middle school splits. And no Dr. Y. I guess that makes me a 7.

>>The prediction today is WVHS will have 3600 students - and the district admin had the gaul >>to say this was manageable.

Dear Dr. Y?

Enjoying most of your posts but let's get our facts straight about the HS numbers.

The district numbers are a lie. None of the high schools will have the number of students the district claims. Over 600 hundred seniors expressed interest in attending the COD Frontier campus next year.

District 204 already has a 3rd HS, it is COD Frontier!!

Until the district starts to break COD Frontier out from the other HS numbers, ALL THOSE NUMBERS ARE INFLATED!!

Hundreds of seniors went to Frontier this year and an estimated 300 will go there next year on a fulltime basis and hundreds more on a parttime basis meaning that leaves hundreds of EMPTY seat at the other 2 high schools.

Read the fine print on this link.

http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf

There is plenty of capacity at the 2 existing HS with the expanded use of Frontier and declining ES enrollment. The 3rd high school will never be needed. All we needed was a few portable classrooms at the MS level for a few years. Closing the WV freshman campus is unnecessary and so is the 3rd HS.

Everyone could have stayed at their existing schools/boundaries but the district could not admit their mistake when it became clear the HS wasn't needed.
They couldn't use the money for an addition, a new MS or protable classrooms because they worded the referendum too tightly (could only be used for a 3rd HS).

The district F'd up with the wording of the referendum and they don't give you the REAL facts about how many students attend the 3 schools: WVHS, HVHS and FRONTIER!

See in the above link for yourself, there is NO accounting of all the students at Frontier, they count them in the school they would have attended and they aren't there and their seat is open and availble.


Does anyone know if the video has been posted from last night's meeting yet(?). If so, where is it available? We need this urgently and as soon as possible for next steps.

Thanks

To TG:

You've lost any credibility with your point:

- All minorities are pushed out of NVH to WVH

I didn't realize that TG and WE had such diverse populations.

If you look at the School Report Cards, the percentage of African Americans at TG and WE is actually lower than the percentage currently at NV. By moving this two schools out, the percentage of African Americans at NV will actually increase and become more diverse.

It's the school site stupid!
No offense to anyone but, just like the slogan from 1992, this is not hard to get.
Last night I felt that there was way too much "me, me, I, I" in many of the agruments. This all boils down to one thing. The site selected by the board is horrible! The only reason it made the grade was they could get it quick to make their precious 2009 date....good luck!
Besides the ability to easily and quickly get this site, what does it have going for it that warrants a 150 million dollar investment (notice the price that WILL go up). It has electrical problems, wetland problems, traffic problems, it is nowhere near the growth, it is by trains and expanding train traffic, there is a major gas line problem. To make matters worse, the land is being grossly over paid for! Again.....just to get it.
I noticed one comment about the boards integrity? Please? This board was not authorized to place a $150 million dollar investment on this horrible property. This site was not what the voters approved in the last referendum. Just look at the boards voting points in their call to pass the referendum. This matter was handled like a thief in the night.
There is no doubt that there will be more lawsuits and probably legislative actions taken against this board. More money for attorneys and less money for the kids.
As for one comment on only 20% of the district being unhappy....not too bright. The board will need more money to fill this school and run it. If anyone votes yes....they are fools. This district has an automatic 30-35% that will always vote no for raising taxes. I'll bet the 150 million that more than 20% can be rounded up to vote a referendum down or pass a new referndum canceling this boards right to build this mess.
Just a few thoughts from a concerned citizen.

proud parent 204,

Why do any sound minded person on earth want to leave one crowded school that those people can walk to - getting fresh air along the way, for another crowded school far away on a crowded bus in rush hour traffic while breathing diesel fumes?

Is this the new math? I think once again, the district and SB are projecting numbers far into the future, and should realize that the farther out one goes, the less accurate the numbers - always. Officials have had many mistakes predicting the future. But they know the numbers are a sham. That is why they did not bring in the professionals in the first place.

Even though a high school is not needed, if fools want to build one where the students do not live, please then get over the idea of balancing students and social engineering. Build a small school - say 2000 students - for the small but obviously demanding northern residents (who while I know a few - I assume they must be pursuasive to help drive the district into wasting $380 million - you have my respect for that).

A smaller high school allows for less busing around the district, saves capital/interest/ops cost for Radiation High, allows for all walkers to actually walk to school, allows parents to be involved and to volunteer more, maintains spirit of the schools, etc. -- this IS the solution, but the SB/admin are set in stone, wanting a large school they do not need.

Leave NV relatively tight because enrollment is already declining in ES level and will accelerate. You can then build another HS or buy one off Plainfield officials who are building as if they live on an ant hill of people. Of course our SB has used Plainfield many times as an example. Remember this? "Plainfield has half as many students and 4 high schools, and we have only 2". I hope our SB does not continue to use Plainfield for their lead because it will cost 204 dearly.

It is arrogant, insesitive, stubborn, and yes - elitist. They are the elitists not TG or WE etc. They are social engineering, playing the masters, etc.

Please join a group and stop the madness. Watts, WE, COW, Fry - you can bring these elitists to their knees. Is $380,000,000 enough or do they have to go for $500,000,000 - which they can now that a referendum was past and the bond premium game is on.

Throw out the SB, the Super, Birkett and Zozulia. Overturn the Referendum. Have some guts already - we only live once! Do the right thing!

To Senora

Adios!

I agree with anonymous at 3:44pm. How do we go about now to get our voices heard and see that this new HS is not built at the location selected by the SB currently. That site is unsafe and not unsuitable as far as growth is concerned. In spit of all these boundary changes NV's capacity is still around 4000.
I could not understand how Alka Tyle came up with the reasoning that MV is going to be the most highly populated school in the future! The SB has acted very incompetently and arrogantly. They need to get off their high horse and hear what the vast majority of the community has to say. Dr. D's snickering attitude at yesterday's meeting was highly improper and he does not seem like an ideal person to be the superintendent. By the way, how come the the Super's kids get preferential treatment and get to stay at NV when they should stay at WV? Does he think WV cannot offer good education to his kids? Maybe some of the bloggers instead of focusing on TG and Fry community should focus on him and his perceptions for a change.

May I please summarize all the posts-to-date?

Group 1: "The school board didnt listen and had already decided. The meeting was a joke. There weren't enough chairs. And the donuts were STALE."

This group is dominated by agrieved TGers.

Group 2: "I am sorry for you. Really I am. I actually wept last night just thinking about it. But whats done is done. Cant we all just get along?"

This group is mostly Springbrook, Welch and other thank-god-we-dodged-a-bullet'ers.

Group 3: "The School board is out of control lets get rid of 'em all....AND the administration....AND a few more too, but we just cant think of them at the moment! But by God I'm not happy and SOMEBODY has to be blamed."

Mostly empty nesters, and people without kids, or who cant afford the houses they are currently living in. And yes, a few TG'ers as well. (Most of this group also voted for Ross Perot a few years back.)

Group 4: The Conspiracy Theorists - "The board is all in cahoots with the bus companies and live in areas that aren't getting shafted. They are GREEDY GREEDY GREEDY -- which is why they are doing the job for FREE! They thrive on the misery of others. And in particular, are out to get ME!!"

I am not sure who these people are, but they frighten me. Stay away please.

Group 5: "We are solving a $15,000,000 problem by spending $150,000,000! You all got what you deserve, you silly, stupid YES voters!!"

Actually this is just one guy, who keeps posting under different names! Hey buddy.....How many more times are you going to trot this one out ?

Group 6: "I'm gonna get me a lawyer and SUE!!"

This group is mostly made up of lawyers.

Group 7: "Lets move on and make the best of bad situation. I may not like it, but it is nobody's FAULT and even if it were, there is no use crying over spilled milk. What counts now is how we come together and make all the schools the best they can be."

Impressively, this group includes TG'ers, WE'ers, Springbrookers, Owen'ers and many, many others.


So instead of posting more comments, why not just indicate your "Group Affiliation Number" and save some space on the servers?

Dr Y seems to have lodged his head in his rectum.

At a PTA meeting that Dr D, the superintendent spoke at, he told the attendees his daughter attends Neuqua Valley Gold campus. HE SAID IT! no controversy...he has two daughters is it possible that one goes to each school?

As a parent and high school teacher who moved to the district in 204, I willingly served on the original Referendum Committee regarding this issue when asked to by my new PTSA in 2005. Then I began working at NVHS while my oldest child attended WVHS - What a dramatic difference between the 2 "District 204" high schools. For a while I thought I was in an entirely different city! My husband now has an opportunity for a promotion with his employer once again, which may require another move for our family. Even though my youngest son will attend MVHS, and this promotion can occur here, we may well want to start anew in a new community that respects all of its high schools and neighborhoods!

To the person above who stated that
"The Superintendent('s) children go to NVH instead of WVH as a special treatment"

They do not go NV. My daughter at WV is friends and on the track team with one of his daughters, who happens to love being at WV.

Don't try to create a controversy that is not there....

I am sorry to the families that attend Owen from the West side. I agree that it isn't right that you'll be among a minority of Still students going to Metea. It really wasn't the intention of Brighton Ridge/West Glen residents to "throw you under the bus". We were quite simply, dumbfounded, at the proposed commute. Our community had far and away the longest bus rides proposed in the original boundaries. There was not much time between the announcement of the boundaries and time to react. We were scrambling to find alternatives - most residents here far and away preferred the Waubonsie option for reasons you can relate to. Had we been mapped to Neuqua, our children would have been among only 32 from Still attending - most of us very much wanted to avoid that situation, but were willing to settle for it rather than deal with a 45 minute commute up to Metea. Fortunately for us, we'll get to stay at Waubonsie. I now know that means that you're kids will be among only 1/3 of Still kids going to Metea, and I am truly sorry for that. Believe me, we "east Oweners weren't trying to stick it to you. We simply wanted a viable commute. As a neighborhood, we just got together last Friday to talk about this for the first time.

Frankly, this whole thing is sub-optimal for most of the district (We don't want Still to be split, either). The site chosen is too far north of the population center, and that's causing unpleasant repercussions for most of the district.

I think the whole NVHS vs. WVHS perceptions are held by a minority. Most of us just want a reasonable commute, as evidenced by the number of people (including you) that very much want to stay at WVHS.

The prediction today is WVHS will have 3600 students - and the district admin had the gaul to say this was manageable. The problem with this thinking is that number was hit before and it was so crowded that that faculty offices were turned into class rooms, fights broke out among students, etc.

You would assume the district admin learned from their mistakes. Well they have not learned from then, the recent mistakes like $20 million BB disaster, nor the first 2 boundary fiascos. The funny thing about this is NVHS will have 3500 kids in space for 4900, and WV will have 3600 in space for about 3000!

Add the recalling of the SB, the firing of the Superintendent, Kathy Birkett and Carla Zozulia to the list of options and/or actions underway. Someone should investigate the process. How about the zealots in "parents for local schools" also known as "pit bulls with money".

....and another thing proud parent 204- i don't remember bringing up MY property value. I'm in a 'starter' home in TG- probably less costly than yours- and i'm near the ES.. so i'm NOT concerned about my home value dropping!

some of us, after all, are concerned about travel time not property value.. and moving away from OUR community... hopefully, for example, the aurora library will let us get library cards over there so our kids can use that library, etc.

Overcrowding is a myth, get over it. Enrollment has peaked and is starting to decline at the ES level. The bubble of students will pass and the 3rd high school will never be needed.

Remember when the school district told us if we would just approve the millions and millions for the freshman campuses a 3rd high school would never be needed?

Well, I guess they were right about 1 thing.

You voted for a 3rd high school and now you will get it.
The boundaries and location were never guaranteed.
At least 1 school board member warned you about this but your greed got in the way of your judgement.

You thought you would personally benefit on the backs of seniors, people on fixed income and people just trying to pay their 2nd mortgage (their tax bill).

You took a gamble and you lost.
Get over it.

To all WV parents:

Did you know or did you wish for the plans to eventually close WVHS. The problem with these plans are as follows:

1) It meant that no other sites other than central or north in Aurora were to be considered - cost of that plan $20 million from BB alone, + $10 million already based on next best offer vs. Radition High site, + $10 million to speed up construction even though it will not speed up construction, plus about $20 million in transportation costs over say 10 years, plus through in just one bus accident +$20 million, esp. if a Fry child is involved. (20+10+10+20+20=$80,000)

2) Since the school is in fine shape, academically sound by any measure, it may only need remodeling for say $50 million tops. So if we did that, and we already know a third high school is not needed because we already have the capacity for even the bubble of students passing through the system, that means we subtract the remodeling cost from the full cost of the new unneeded high school ...so $350 million in principle, interest and operating costs of Rad High ($350,000,000 - $50,000,000 = $300,000,000).

Total tab for this big idea = $380,000....so who pushed for this plan; why was it needed; why did it have to be in Auroralocation. Tell me this "rumor" is not true!

Go ahead, fail the ISATs. My kids honors and PA classes will have more room.

Enough of this already!
When can we start talking about building the 4th and 5th high schools!
A high school for every child I say!

I think as residents of this school district we should all be embarrassed. What kind of an example are we setting for our children with all this name calling and neighborhood bashing. I do not agree with many of the decisions this school board has made recently but enough is enough. If I was considering moving to this school district and read this board I would run the other direction.

from proud parent 204 - "..now your kids will attend a less crowded high school with more opportunities!!!.."

thank you for your explanation.. please tell us how WV will be a less crowded school since they are closing the WV Gold campus...(lesser in number but (WV)a smaller building, i think??)

so from a big ES, a crowded MS, and, once again, a crowded high school- and, yes, the busses will, probably, also be crowded! No problem with the big ES, even the crowded MS.. why? cuz it's right in the neighborhood- even we, TG people, know we can't have everything.. and we're willing to accept that!

I voted NO each time as did most of Dupage 204. Will county was played like a harp. Although I sincerely believe that 204's intentions were for the BB location, when that ultimately failed 204 did the only thing they could. That left many of the YES voters out in the cold. Becareful what you wish for (and vote for)...you may get it!

Environmental concerns with the MW Generation / AME site -

Problem 1 - EMF exposure
District had ENVIRON complete an evaluation in October. For whatever reason, they had the company come back out to do a "re-test." Those re-test values are what is currently being referred to and was distributed with the site selection packet last month. Those readings range up past 7mG for the school site. I'm not an expert, but a speaker at the Jan 22 meeting stated that he is an expert and the internationally recognized "safe" EMF exposure is 2.4mG. The ENVIRON report makes no claims as to the "safety" of the site. The word "safe" has only been used by our non-expert superintendent because there is much controversy over what is "safe" for children and teenagers. The highest readings are on the baseball field and stadium areas.

In the 2006 site selection report the AME site was ruled out due to EMF exposure. Since then the actual building site has moved closer to the EMF hazard due to the purchase of the Midwest Generation property.

Problem 2 - Midwest Generation spills
The district is conducting a Phase II environmental study because they found oil spills during the Phase I study. From the meeting last night it has become clear that there are at least 5 samples that came back with contamination. It was stated that this contamination cannot be attributed to spills while the tanks were being loaded (which are the only spills that were ever reported to the EPA while Midwest Generation operated the peaker plant.) So how much oil and other contaminants are in the soil and how it got there is unknown and was never reported to the EPA.

Problem 3 - Pipelines running through the site

Superintent mentioned at the Jan 22 meeting that there were several natural gas pipelines by the railroad tracks, but there are more hazardous material pipelines that run directly next to the school site itself. This has not been mentioned and it's unclear if the superintendent and school board are even aware this problem exists.

Problem 4 - Increased traffic on rail line
Frieght loads and hazard material loads are to increase ten fold on the train line running past the site. We already have schools build along the rail line but it seems foolish to choose this site knowing that the rail traffic is another hazard.

There may be other hazards but this is what I've been able to piece together so far. It's hard to get a complete picture as the school board and administration have not been forthcoming with information.

After sitting through a very hot, crowded and emotional school board meeting last night, it became quickly obvious to me and many others that the SB was not listening to the majority of speakers. Many residents from all over the district asked for the SB to slow down and rethink all of the administrations recommendations, starting with the new site location, busing and safety issues and continuing on down to the boundaries. Obviously the SB did not slow down and consider much of what was presented last night. So this begs the question, what do we do now?
There are still a great many of us who believe the Administration failed us as a whole. How can we band together as a district and get our voices heard? What are the proper channels for this? Are there any? Can anyone help?
If you know, this would be great information to have.

A real surprise that people in the district just do not catch on to, is that SB members continue to crunch numbers on spreadsheets, act as demographers and consultants, when that is not their job. Their job is to assure the numbers have the necessary checks and balances, like some professional input from third party independent consultants - so the district parents have no wiffe of conflict of interest - like admin people who live in an area impacted by the decision. They should not be working the numbers on the floor of their living room - that is not executive management. With a quarter billion dollar budget for the district, you might expect better.

Example: Do you not find it funny when Alka sits there talking about the year 2015 under various growth scenarios, and that NVHS will have 3500 students "about 85% of capacity" making the capacity 4117 name plate capacity (3500/0.85) when actual name plate capacity is about 6000 (1600 Gold + 3800 Main + 600 Frontier from district communications). That's one high school off the mark Alka!

How ludicrous this is and how stupid we have been in ISPD 204!

Coming from Tall Grass, I just wanted to say "thanks" to Owen Dad for acknowledging that after all of the representatives from our neighborhood spoke - on MANY concerns and issues other than Fry being placed outside of the NV boundaries - that the Board almost voted on the proposal without saying a single word to this large contingency. Funny how saying nothing sometimes says a lot. Like you, I have lost every confidence that this Board is capable of handling the complex issues that lay at its feet. I, too, was insulted by Dr. Daeschner's sneers and snickers, as well as his opening comments about how he sensed feelings of entitlement from some of the district's constituents. Frankly, all I and I think most of us feel entitled to is a competent administration and school board. They affect our children's daily lives and they are responsible for spending our tax dollars, so I don't think feeling entitled to much better than what we, as a district, are getting is out of line.
It is right that the Owen and Peterson situations were addressed and rectified, as they were largely unjust and easy to fix. I hope you felt supported by Tall Grass at the meeting, because you were. Assuming the site for the 3rd high school is actually environmentally safe, I agree that all of our children will be fine. But, I am still concerned and appalled that this board continues to act recklessly and are apparently beyond reproach on so many important issues.

White Eagle was focused on one thing only...this is the WRONG location for the HS for the ENTIRE DISTRICT! This is NOT about the "we don't want to go to Waubonsie thing" it is much more about the right decisions for our district as a whole. Only 12% of the student population is in this remote location. This is bad for the entire district! 57% of the student population is located south of 75th street. The same School Board excluded this site because they said "the site is somewhere between a probability and certainty for exposure to electromagnetic radiation". The 66 samples which almost 10% of those samples were deemed contaminated is an HUGE CONCERN! The lack of specific information from the administration about the level 2 testing and the actual results of the level 1 testing is a HUGE concern! This is the WRONG LOCATION!

There it is in black and white.
Elementary school enrollment is declining.
The new homes being built can not keep up with the maturing 204 population any longer.

http://www.ipsd.org/Documents/0708/EnrollmentStats07.pdf

Why doesn't 204 break out all the seniors attending COD Frontier instead of WV or NV? Could it be because they don't want you to see that enrollment at the HS level actually declinded when you factor in all the empty seats due to seniors attending COD Frontier instead of WV or NV. Could it be that the enrollment projections they used to "sell" you the 3rd high school were all wrong or simply made up?

How much would a couple more portable classrooms for the middle school have cost us?

To Dr Y?:
Please post any information you have regarding getting organized around the serious environmental issues with this site. We are not getting the truth about any other topics; why should the EMF and ground contamination be any different?

To Tank the Test:
I must admit I got a chuckle out of your comments. The ISAT information came home in the backpacks yesterday and my first thought was to keep my kid up late and feed him a bag of sugar for breakfast the week of March 4! Yes, these are the thoughts of irate parents!

MH-

You must be a legal scholar. You know there are no grounds for a lawsuit. Okay everyone, since MH says there are no legal grounds I guess go home and accept it. I THINK NOT

All of us are all looking out for the best interest of overselves and our families so how can we point fingers at others.

It is a fact you pay for the district area you are in. All of you pepole think the TG and WE people are snobs, they are all good people just trying to accomplish what anyone in town is:
1. Provide the best education for their children
2. Protect the value of their homes.

The fact that they are fighting for it makes them some type of malcontents. These decisions affect both. The BS about how test scores at WV don't really give you the "fair picture". Boy its convienient that when the SB wants the to numbers matter they are law, and when it doesn't help the cause they are dismissed.

I don't blame the anger shown by them last night!!!!!

A Welch homeowner

A couple of comments:
1. Why would the SB look at alternative ways to house students (moving 6th grade to ES, portable classrooms, etc.)when we passed a referendum 2 years ago for a new high school? Done deal.
2. Where was the public outcry when the SB announced the Eola Rd. site last month? There was little to no opposition to the site and the SB approved the site last month. Where were 450 parents at that meeting? Done deal.
3. The public outcry regarding the site's safety began AFTER the boundary proposal last week. Interesting...

Enough of the subdivision bashing! Enough, enough, enough.

This blog should be shut down; I'm down this it.
Moderator Jim: Blog's not being shut down, so get over it.
Posted by: Anonymous | February 20, 2008 12:57 PM

"I'm down this it" ? Yoda are you?

Moderator Jim wrote: Even more reason to read the Sun. At least we keep you informed.

People may not pay for the SUN but many do read it online. It may be a rag but it is the only rag in town. The community deserves better than BC simply regurgitating what the district feeds her. We have had 3 long years of that.

The SUN never asked any hard questions. I know you get tired of people blaming the media and the SUN but in this case I have to say I agree with them.

$150,000,000 is a lot of money. I read Tim Waldorf's articles and he is no investigative reporter but he is in a different league from BC.

The article by Brit Carson was simply terrible and it was practically incomprehensible. Come on Jim, let her write about diaper changing but could we get a real reporter that will actually investigate district 204 or at least ask some hard questions?

MODERATOR JIM: Britt's story was an impartial report on a very inflammatory issue as evidenced by these blogs. Waldorf has nothing to do with it in that he covers 203 not 204. Keep watching the paper for more on the whole boundary issue, Brach Brodie and other pertinent areas iof this issue. And, lastly, find a better word to characterize the "Sun" other than "rag."

First, let me say, I do not live in White Eagle or Tall Grass.

However, I am very disappointed in how the school board and the 204 administration has incompetently managed all issues regarding the 3rd high school. You can start with the decision to make freshman centers out of middle schools, the Brach Brodie fiasco, and end up with the recent land recommendation and boundary decision. The AME site is not right for the new high school. Way too many kids are going to be spending way too many hours on buses.

I have no trust in this board to make prudent decisions in the future based on incompetence from the past.

To Anonymous2

Wish we could debate this in person. Oh wait, that's been done and is over with finally.

Congrats on taking my comments out of context. I was purely responding in kind to "Heading West" by first being understanding of his concern over distance to WVHS. I then went onto state a point that TG isn't the only neighborhood with 3000sq.ft. homes with 4 bedrooms and 2-4 bathrooms. Furthermore, I made a point that he still might want to consider this area in Aurora. We're closer to I-88, the train station and entertainment in downtown Naperville. I then stated that when I looked at building a house I considered all of those previous factors and the fact my children would get a quality education no matter where they were in IPSD. See I could have built in TG or any neighborhood Naperville or Aurora, NVHS, WVHS or MVHS. Unfortunately, the true colors of some TG residents is still coming through and that is your perception of WVHS. "Heading West" didn't didn't have that perception but I think you do.

Regarding my comment on "heck you might even save some money" it was a joke. In fact after doing some research, the average home prices in TG are comparable to the neighborhoods I mentioned earlier, some less some more. My property value is only going as fast as yours is in this current housing market. Here's a bonus, now your kids will attend a less crowded high school with more opportunities!!!

I'm tired, as are thousands of other families in IPSD, of some peoples elitist attitudes.

"Heading West" I do not consider you part of this group, but unfotunately some of your neighbors I do. I wish you all the best at WVHS I know your family will continue to make it the great HS it has been for 30+ years.


Gotta be fair here-- my husband was at the entire meeting and did not personally hear any TG speaker suggest that Welch should go to NV instead of them. Still instead of WE, yes, but not NV. (We're Welch parents and he would have noticed that.) I will be honest. I believe that our combined neighborhoods would have banned together the way TG did if we were to be sent to a school that was farther away from us than the less than one mile many of our kids currently walk, only because of location. I know none of my friends would have behaved poorly during the process of gathering facts and asking questions of the SB, but I don't know EVERYONE in my neighborhood and can't speak for the way they would have conducted themselves. If some were not professional about their approach, I would not want our whole Welch population to be judged based on the actions of a few, (especially because of the ramifications it has for the kids) so I wish people would not do it to TG as a whole either. My daughter goes to Scullen and comes home telling me that Jane Doe "who lives in WE is talking in class about how terrible TG is acting" and several other perceptions and attitudes that are trickling down to the children. These kids are ELEVEN! Can we please stop poisoning their minds against one another? Can we please set a better example? I can't tell anyone what to think or what discussions they should or should not have in their homes with their spouses, but just remember the kids are listening and are looking to us to see how to act and are swayed by how we feel.


I empathize with everyone that is having changes made to their school of attendance. But with this entire district pitted against one another a few items are eluding the majority of us.

As I understand it, the Brach Brodie estate has until the 17th of March to submit legal expenses, decide if they want to pursue a breach of contract and decide if they are willing to purchase back the 25 acres currently owned by district 204. The SB wants to close on the new site BEFORE they know these figures. There is a lot of what ifs out there not answer on the previous site let alone the new site. Hypothetically, if the legal fees come in at 8M, 3M more than the estimated 5M, and the estate refuse to buy back the land at 6.7M we are down 9.7M off the building fund. Why do we need such a large piece of land? Can’t we build a school on the 25 acres we own already or purchase a few more from BB? Don’t we have some alternatives there?

The northern site was originally eliminated on the basis of polluted soil and electro magnetic current in the area. Now the SB says it’s safe and that the seller will do whatever it takes to mitigate the site, yet we want to break ground late March – early April. How is this possible? Where is the original study (back in the last debate), then the revised study in this round?

Then there is the railroad sale. It is most likely going to happen…rather than fighting about which neighborhoods should and shouldn’t have to travel over those tracks how do we unite and get above grade crossings to insure our children’s safety, alleviate traffic and maintain our community’s integrity.

These are the issues we should be solving not fighting about. I believe the SB will adopt the boundaries this evening or a version very close to it. Let’s work together to address the issues above before we find our district in more trouble.


Has anyone noticed that the legal fees are included in only the Brach Brodie price per acre? And then they only used 2.5M as an estimate. But we are paying legal fees no matter what property the third high school is built on and the new estimate is at 5M. I realize that the property is still much more expensive, but if we are really comparing apples to apples in real estate the new site actually costs approximately $223,529 per acre – and that is using the 2.5M estimate. It goes up to $252,942 using the “new” 5M figure.

Also, shouldn’t we be concerned that the school board plans to close on the new site on 3/10 BEFORE the court date to settle damages! Doesn’t this seem irresponsible?

Shouldn’t we be concerned that the EPA data comes out after close also? At last night’s meeting we were told the secondary bore sample would be back in 3 weeks…that would put us at about March 12th. AFTER the closing! Why is the administration in such a hurry all of a sudden?

Below are supporting articles to the facts stated above:


DAILY HERALD 1/18/08

Leaders also must decide what to do with their 25 acres of Brach-Brodie land. Selling it back is an option.

Steve Helm, attorney for the Brodie trust, said the district has taken no formal action yet and it's premature to say it will abandon its rights to the other 55 acres.

But if officials do, they'll have to pay the landowners for attorney fees and litigation expenses that could be more than $4 million. The landowners also could seek other damages.


DAILY HERALD 2/5/2008

Even though the district now has given up the Brach-Brodie land, the two sides aren't done with each other. They will be in court again March 17 to hear any further motions.

"We won't be filing anything in the condemnation case," said Rick Petesch, attorney for the district. "We'll wait for their motions regarding (legal) fees. And whatever else they add to that."

The district also has to offer to sell the 25 acres it already owns back to the Brach-Brodie trust for the amount it originally paid -- about $6.4 million. The trust has not indicated whether it is interested in buying it back.

Petesch said he plans to write a letter to the trust later this week asking it to make a decision by a certain date.

"We'll give them a deadline, and if they don't meet that deadline, we might ask the court to impose a deadline on them," Petesch said.

Which affected or potentially affected neighborhood has not demonstrated self centeredness? Why is only TG being called self centered, when you all are? Maybe 'cause they are taking the shaft and don't think they should be the only ones - a walking neighborhood bussed three times as far to high school, essentially the only Scullen Middle students to split (Ashwood's nine students being added just really don't help that), and that they came up with a proposal that met the SB critieria better than the SB's , but were ignored! Sure it mean't another neighborhood had to leave NVHS, but it met the criteria better so that's why it should be that way. That would be the objective reasoning to tell those who had to leave. Can't fight logic. The SB's plan (school site, boundaries, need for school) is not logical which is why so many are disagreeing with it.

As much as people are tired of hearing about the RT 59 bridge, people are tired of hearing that FRY aren't walkers with the bridge. The bridge and the facts of that bridge location do make the TG neighborhood walkers - get over whether they would walk or not, because I don't think any NVHS neighborhood within walking is prodominently walking. They are riding in their best friend's Mustang. Otherwise I want to see those Stillwater walkers out there tomorrow! Especially all the way from 87th! And Naperville-Plainfield Rd.

TG - Some very good points and a very good representation of the feelings of TG parents that I have spoken with.

There is apathy being shown by the non-affected "no matter what"- I just spoke with a Clow parent who did not even know there was a boundary meeting last night, did not know they had changed the new school site from BB, and was upset to hear from me that Neuqua would remain a mega school even after all the taxes were paid and the new school built. (Okay so he doesn't read the Sun.) It is possible that if all the facts were put out there again and updated with some accuracy, that entire 204 district may say explore other alternatives (such as the 6th graders back to elementary schools)that could work without spending $150 M, increasing transportation,splitting middle schools, and pitting neighborhoods against one another.

Moderator Jim: Even more reason to read the Sun. At least we keep you informed.

To anonymous who said that one of the things that the Sun Times should investigate is that all of the minorities are pushed out of NVH to WVHS:

Have you ever looked at the demographics for Welch? It is wonderfully and richly diversified. I believe many of the other schools are so as well. Check your facts.

The homeowners were civil and well prepared last night. Unified across the district with reasonable expectations. It appeared there were advocates on the board for our Owen issue and also to address the triple split at Peterson. I was amazed after all of the presentations by Tall Grass and White Eagle that not a single board member even reflected on their issues or suggestions. As a parent of this district I could not think of a more disrespectful action by our board. Thank you Ms Clark for at least recognizing these parents were in the room. It was abundantly clear that the SB had a closed mind about our neighbors west of 59 (or at least those North of 103rd) walking into the room and did not listen with their minds and certainly not their hearts.

It appears that the SB decision is now made and that is unfortunate but is understandable that they get this mistake passed as soon as possible before the settlement costs are known from BB and before the closing on the Eola deal. As I listened last night to the residents I reflected on why we're in this sad place to begin with... The SB and administration was so focused on BB they did not have a plan B. If this was a corporation who was accountable for their actions the entire team would be fired. The amount of money and time wasted thus far is sickening and the mad rush now to move on appears only to me to be a diversion tactic to prevent each of them from being accountable. Countless parents pleaded with the SB to not rush and to look at options. Did it ever occur to the SB that the reason the boundaries don't work is that the location of MV is simply wrong?

Thanks for all of the SB members for lecturing us on how little emphasis to place on standardized tests and income yet the same SB used these very issues in "balancing enrollment".

Our kids will succeed not because of this board or administration but because of the parents and teachers. It is time for a change in leadership at both the SB level and the administration since they do not represent our entire community and certainly do not take feedback seriously unless it happens to coincide with their personal beliefs. I had not seen our new Superintendant in action until last night but after watching him snickering as our residents presented issues its clear why he was fired from his previous job.

Yes, my Owen neighbors did get a consolation but what none of us got was a restoration in trust that the SB and the Admin are capable of representing our larger community. Its time to call for a vote of no-confidence in this team.

The lawyers don’t exist. People are just upset and saying things because they lost what they wanted. The Suns poll was that of maybe a 1,000 people. A certain subdivision probably sent out a rapid e mail to all of the homeowners to fill the poll out in a last effort to prove a point.

I was at the meeting last night and thought that the whole process was a joke. Obviously the board's minds were made up and the whole thing was window dressing. The one guy from TG who said what so many feel, FRY is getting the shaft and it will affect all of our housing values was right on the money. May not be popular, but it is the truth. I am glad someone had the courage to say it.

proud parent 204 to "Heading West"..."Heck, you might even save some money moving into a one of these homes?Anyway, those were the factors I looked at and why I built my house in this area along with the fact my kids would attend IPSD...instead of building in TG."...

first i had to give you directions for your TG to WV expedition... now i have to give you an economics lesson...let's see..now your area has 2 Hi schools on either side of you... would that make YOUR area's houses go UP or DOWN in value??? i would guess UP.. how can "Heading West" save $$ buying in your area now?

>>Be happy your child will be involved in a school with less than 3,900 and something.

You fail to remember that WVHS will lose the freshman campus.

Makes a lot of sense right, close the WV High school freshman campus only to build another high school just down the road at a cost of $150,000,000?

Brilliant.

$150,000,000 solution for a $15,000,000 problem. And remember we have no money to operate the new high school. Your bill is in the mail...

Remember when they told you this?

ENROLLMENT PROJECTION MODEL 1
Enrollment Projection Model 1 assumes all parcels available for residential development will be fully built out by 2015. We calculated the number of homes to be built on each parcel and the resulting number of new students from those homes. This generated approximately 4,000 new students over the next 10 years. Click the link "Enrollment Projection Chart" at the bottom of the page for more detailed information.

http://www.ipsd.org/newsevents/news_item_detail.asp?id=5768

I guess we should have hired that professional demographer after all?

A $150,000,000 mistake.

I assume that a Phase I environmental assessment has been completed on the 3rd high school land. Does anyone have a copy or a link that links to the actual report? Someone mentioned earlier that soil samples have already been collected, which I would find very surprising as that is not ususally done until a Phase II (although maybe a Phase II has been completed also). Any info on where any environmental reports on the land are located or could be accessed would be appreciated.

Remember there are more unhappy people than you think. It is not all WE and TG folks. The Naperville Sun Poll showed 75% NO to the question "Are you happy with the new 204 boundaries?". And I would say, though unscientific, it was a lot more scientific than Bruce Glawe's survey of his own emails - a total lie. Ask him to show you the actual emails. There were probably quite a few hot emails that cannot be re-printed here, but that he classified in the "not sure whether for or against" category. That Sun survey saus a lot and this problem will not go away. The district admin and SB went down a path that created this situation. I believe in Karma, so I am not worried about the ultimate result...and I am lucky enough to have never been failed by that belief.

To: Tank the Test

Hahaha...oh, I'm sure your current school (Fry and NVHS) will appreciate your kids doing that for their furture and their future results, meanwhile you'll be at WVHS. Take the whole ship down with you if you don't get your way. You wonder where the resentment is towards parents like yourself by the rest of the school district. Remember you only represent 20% of the district at best. Time to move on. Instead I look at the 2007 test scores and see a Title 1 elementary school that is now one of the top performers in IPSD. Nice lesson your teaching your kids to whine and underacheive if you don't get your way.

TO: fail the ISATS,

You have got to be kidding me!!! How can you call yourself a parent? "If I dont get what I want I am going to take my ball and go home." If this is what you want to teach your child, God help your child. An Adult learns to adapt and overcome any situation, thats what you should be teaching your child. I cant believe your post. Please for the sake of yoru child Grow up!!!

I think our administration did a fine job putting together the boundaries; Kathy Birkett worked her tail off. The ammmendments may not be perfect, but NOTHING will be. There was a lot of mis-information spewed at the meeting last night by residents.

I still don't get the argument regarding Fry becoming "walkers" with a pedestrian bridge (not that it matters much now); you folks would be driving your kids in sub zero weather anyway, and it's really quite a hike. That was just the weirdest last ditch effort to persuade the board to keep you at Neuqua. Bizarre.

Dear Heading West wrote:

"No, you only thought of yourself
But when the location changed, you came unglued.
People don't hate TG or WE, what we dislike is your self centered attitude at the expense of others"

Oddly Enough, we weren't even here to vote yes a couple years ago. We weren't upset about going to either Metea at BB, and we aren't unglued WV. You say you don't hate TG or WE, but you claim we "are self centered at the expense of others". "You voted yes, now live with your declining property values which are diluted by your skyrocketing property taxes".

SOUNDS LIKE REAL HATE, only in seiously deep denial.

I also said I accept going to WV. Now please go pick on someone else. At least 204 Proud Parent offered some nice suggestions (which I'd already begun considering).

ARE YOU REALLY FLETCHA in disguise? Possibly a few other pen names to add fuel to the fire? PLEASE stop.

I want to share with "Anonymous" that in fact District 204 is not built out. In addition to the 2 Ashwood subdivisions, there is a large track of land north of 103rd and west of 248 (possibly a 3rd Ashwood?) zoned for residential.

There are a number of smaller subdivisions either just underway or to be started soon. There is at least one petition for annexation of land which would allow for a small subdivision that would fall within D204 boundaries.

Granted the major growth spurt is past us, however there will be additional growth on top of the already over crowded HS and MS (newsflash Frontier hasn't solved the problem at NVHS).

There are a lot of issues this District needs to address, rehashing the need for a 3rd high school isn't one of them

Dear Heading West wrote:

"No, you only thought of yourself
But when the location changed, you came unglued.
People don't hate TG or WE, what we dislike is your self centered attitude at the expense of others"

Oddly Enough, we weren't even here to vote yes a couple years ago. We weren't upset about going to either Metea at BB, and we aren't unglued WV. You say you don't hate TG or WE, but you claim we "are self centered at the expense of others". "You voted yes, now live with your declining property values which are diluted by your skyrocketing property taxes".

SOUNDS LIKE REAL HATE, only in seiously deep denial.

I also said I accept going to WV. Now please go pick on someone else. At least 204 Proud Parent offered some nice suggestions (which I'd already begun considering).

ARE YOU REALLY FLETCHA in disguise? Possibly a few other pen names to add fuel to the fire? PLEASE stop.

Dear MH,

Regarding wasting money on lawyers...I hear most of the lawyers are working for free, and with the large group whatever legal costs come down to about $100 per resident and shrinking.

Why? Because the SB has made recruiting for any effort easy, by not even having the sensitivity, grace or professionalism to slow down the process, by using misleading data for 2 years, and steamrolling over the taxpayers of district 204.

You should be thankful as any people getting involved in various group will be saving you and me money.

Fail the ISATS now that is a great parenting technique! I didn’t get what I want so I will show the SB what I can do. First of all what is done is done. TG is going , Welch and Springbrook is staying. Yes, it stinks for TG. The board made a decision. It has nothing to do with TG personally. WE CAN NOT CHANGE things so, we have to step up and be positive for the children of 204. Be happy your child will be involved in a school with less than 3,900 and something.

Get over yourself, Moderator Jim.

Remember this when you get your future property tax bills:

2006 Referendum HS capacity=8400, HS students projected=11,400 bursting at the seams - "what can we do for the children".

2008 90% of nameplate capacity including 600 at Frontier campus (always left out of the analysis by the district - they dont even show it on maps) = 9700, and students projected = 9200.

For those who say were are in a great district but cannot do math, our operating capacity has remarkably risen by 1300 (or one middle school, or one bubble of students moving through the system), and our student projections have dropped by 2200 students.

So, for zero cost, we have created out of vapor space one additional high school. How remarkable. This means we are burning about $350 million in principle, interest, operating costs for -500 students. At 85% operating capacity ops capacity matches students.

The district's own numbers if you were wondering.

My kids will go to NV (always have), but NV will still be the largest school with all this other stuff goin on! No one seems to care about that.

I think "204 since 1991" has a good point.

We still have a way to show the SB that we are unhappy with the way things came out last night. We could have all the kids FAIL the ISAT tests in a few weeks. If Fry and WE were underperforming schools would we be at WVHS. I still hate the idea that if you test well you need to ride the bus and not walk. The only thing that the ISAT tests are good for is a "school report card" It will not hurt your child's chances at an Ivy league education. Take WE and Fry from honor roll to no child left behind school. Send a message. Tell the board that we still have some power. If the entire community would get behind this the board would be forced to listen to the people. It is obvious that they haven't listened to us yet.

FAIL THE ISAT....Tell the board that we don't like what mess they made of our community

Ridiculous. Folks, they are not shutting down the schools and sending your kids to be tudored with the prisoners in Joliet; they made boundry line choices - tough choices because the school at Brach-Brodie could not be built for a reasonable number.

to those threatening to move: good luck selling your house; to those threatening more legal action: please don't waste my money or yours. If you really want you kids in NV - then by all means, move. But enough. This argument has been going to for months; the elected representatives made a decision; move on.

This blog should be shut down; I'm down this it.

Moderator Jim: Blog's not being shut down, so get over it.

Heading West wrote:
>I live in TG which has been verbally hammered from all angles.
>It's sad to see the insults hurled at this fine subdivision.

TG and WE were huge supporters of the 3rd high school. You voted YES because you thought that would benefit you financially, not because you actually thought the school was needed. Did you ever stop to think what your YES vote would do to people on fixed income, the elderly, and the single parent moms struggling to get by?

No, you only thought of yourself

But when the location changed, you came unglued.

People don't hate TG or WE, what we dislike is your self centered attitude at the expense of others.

What would make district 204 a great place to live?

Quality schools operated by a school district that was fiscally responsible and provided a good value for their dollar. Savvy buyers can get that elsewhere.

You voted yes, now live with your declining property values which are diluted by your skyrocketing property taxes.

"Maybe TG gains with the smaller school with less competition (due to less kids) academically, athletically, musically, etc."


And the light bulb goes on!!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS EXERCISE, FOLKS!!!! :)

To Heading West?

re: If the real estate market were not so depressed, I'd willingly consider moving closer to WV (Yes, Aurora). However, with 5 kids (3 teens, 1 soon to be), it will be hard to give up the # of bathrooms and extended garage space. That is NOT a snob statement either - we chose a house with the things that worked for our HUGE family.

I understand the TG issue with distance to WVHS. However, there are some fine neighborhoods up Northeast in Aurora (Oakhurst, Oakhurst North and Stonebridge) with the square footage housing your family requires. I personally know many families with 4 children and living comfortably in 3000+ sq.ft. houses, 4 bedrooms and 2-4 bathrooms in these areas. Some of these neighborhoods will still attend WVHS and some will attend MVHS. Best part about it is you're closer to I-88, the train station and to downtown Naperville with little traffic east. Heck, you might even save some money moving into a one of these homes?Anyway, those were the factors I looked at and why I built my house in this area along with the fact my kids would attend IPSD...instead of building in TG.

I think the board did a good job with the meeting last night. At the least, they made some sensible adjustments. Let's all move forward now and get this 3rd HS built!

The funniest part, is the Fry area supposedly had several proposals and reasons why they should stay at NV, but would never mention who should get the boot out of NV.

Everyone needs to just calm down. The school board is doing its best to try to figure out the best scenario for all parties concerned. The biggest issue with all of this is the Waubonsie vs. Neuqua ordeal - one that needs to be put to rest. And to those who are now getting on a high horse about Aurora not being Naperville? You are the reason kids today are not accepting of others. I am a Waubonsie Valley graduate, and I could not be happier with my experience throughout high school. Every child has the same opportunities at the different high schools, and each child will make or break their own future. So just relax, let the school board do what they need to do. They are attempting to benefit YOUR children.

Dr Y,

Go ahead, try and file lawsuits. There are no grounds for ANY lawsuits. Spend all the money you want. The lawyers you get will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Re: Transportation, I don't think a left turn on Montgomery is very safe, or for that matter, any left turns over grade level crossings especially when the additional 45 trains per day on an additional track start rolling. That was the route for the south developments going to WV. They left out that little detail, because they know it's unsafe and don't really care about that.

I agree that the district would have been better served with a larger venue or a closed circuit feed so that more people could hear the forum. Does it surprise people that there was such a large turnout, with a concentration of subdivisions who feel they got shafted?

I live in TG which has been verbally hammered from all angles. It's sad to see the insults hurled at this fine subdivision. The SB had NO choice but to select one of three subs: Fry, Welch, or Springbrook to move out of NV. They selected Fry, probably much to the relief of Welch and Springbrook. If it were Welch or Springbrook chosen for WV, would the bloggers be so quick to hurl insults at these subs, who would understandably be disappointed just as we are? I guess it's just too much fun to hate TG.

I agree that the round two site recommendation was conveniently selected by the SB without public input. I also believe the southwestern sites focused too much on the disadvantages, even though they do make more sense when considering the growth is concentrated in the south part of #204. Do we really need to open in 2009?

However, for now, I accept the fact that we are going to WV. I have NO problem with WV itself; it is a fantastic school with fantastic staff and clubs! Proximity is our issue, like many other district families. MomOf2 was creative enough to send a link showing the distance from Fry to WV being 3.8 miles. The shortest route uses Normantown to Montgomery. That's nice when you're in a Honda Civic and driving off hours. A school bus making a left turn from Normantown onto Montgomery, no traffic light, during the busiest times of the day is entirely out of the question. How much influence can the SB have on funding to upgrade the public transportation infrastructure? I can only speak for the needs of this area: such as adding traffic lights (Normantown and Montgomery), widening alternate routes (Normantown and/or Wolf's Crossing) which are desperately needed to support significant increased traffic of cars and buses? We live near 103rd, not 95th; the estimated 33 minute bus ride is severely understated as is Owen's commute to Metea. (Oh yeah, the board "agreed" to split Owen, so it's now only West Owen going to Metea).

If the real estate market were not so depressed, I'd willingly consider moving closer to WV (Yes, Aurora). However, with 5 kids (3 teens, 1 soon to be), it will be hard to give up the # of bathrooms and extended garage space. That is NOT a snob statement either - we chose a house with the things that worked for our HUGE family. So we will stay put and hope the back roads can support the additional car and bus traffic, and support the Warriors.

To the anonymous person above,
The first part of your post appeared so immature I almost stopped reading. Grow up (Fry babies) come on. I did continue reading and the end part sounded like two different people were writing your post. I absolutley agree with you regarding how scarey it is that our board came to their decision. I think we should all be concerned.

from 204 Proud Parent-..."For those of you in TG have you ever been west of Rt. 59?"...

for your driving expedition from Fry to WV, let me help you by informing you that TG, Remington Townhomes, Signature Townhomes, Penncross Knolls, & Mandalay Club are ALL part of FRY, and are located south of 95th, north of 103rd, east of rt 248, and

WEST OF RT 59;

there are many ways to cross the tracks... 111th; by the YMCA fielhouse (up over the hill- 91st, i think- i don't know the street name, i just look for the HUGE water tower); and Left on Montgomery and over the tracks. i would not suggest the Left on Montgomery...unless you want a thrill.. by all means, try it!!


From Your TG guide to the the many routes to the eola area(du page swim club, rush copley gym, Parkside Bowling, The drive- in (now it's gone.. but have seen many movies there, etc)

District 204 elementary school enrollment has declinded the last 2 years in a row for a 284 student decline. This fall as many as 600 seniors may enroll at COD Frontier campus instead of WV or NV.
Peterson is half empty, even after Wheatland was closed. The community is aging and already built out. Overcrowding is a myth and where the 3rd high school is built makes no difference as it isn't needed anyway.

You should have pushed for an addition to be built at NVHS if you wanted more space despite the now apparent lack of need. That and a couple portable classrooms at the MS level could have solved the bubble by now and for a lot less.

Maybe next time you will listen to your neighbors who told you about other options and suggested a NO vote.

You voted YES and now you don't like the outcome. Too bad.

I agree with the majority of you that the SB did a commendable job considering the circumstances. I think that everyone needs to realize that we live in a very good school district, no matter what school our kids end up attending. The biggest issue for me is that the schools are all balanced fairly, in income levels, test scores, etc and I think that was accomplished as well as could be expected. And most importantly a third high school should mean overall more attention and less competition to your children.

The School Board definitely had to make a difficult decision in solidifying the boundaries last night as they had to make in 2006 - there will always be a portion of subdivisions/areas that get impacted more than others. However, the accelerated time to make these decisions and the manner in which the 2008 site selection and boundary proposal recommendations took place were absurd. The best solution to making such decisions should have been conducted by a third and unbiased party in a realistic timeframe.

There are still too many outstanding questions in the development of the 3rd high school that need to be answered -
1) How safe is the Eola Road location? Only time will tell and hopefully it will be safe and there will be no issues.
2) How much will the development of Metea cost taxpayers after all is said and done? Brach Brodie proceedings in March will provide some insight in addition to the commencement of construction in the spring/summer pending environmental cleanup and EPA approvals.
3) How will traffic and safety be truly impacted by the new school locations?

To those on the blog making comments and calling out subdivisions, please do us all a favor, grow up and provide commentary regarding the priniciple of the matter. Otherwise do not bother to waste disk space on this site.

Anyone having any input as to whether an evironmental impact study has been conducted on the newly proposed Metea HS site. Previous bloggers have indicated the site may have hazardous waste and ground contamination issues....if they exist how serious are these problems.

Thanks

Aadil, thanks to SB, my child WILL NOT be attending a brand new state of the art high school in a town that Money magazine has recognized as one of the best places to raise a family. Thanks to the poor way the SB has handled this process, they, did, though, get to help vote on the school colors and mascot for the new school. They, though, will be going to an older school, farther away from home in a different town. Nothing like getting kids excited for something and then taking it away. It's not just many parents who are upset about this. There are a lot of disappointed kids too.

>I hope your children will be able to pull through this tragedy as they attend a brand-new >state-of-the-art high school in a town that Money magazine frequently lists as one of the >best places in America to raise a family.


Aurora?

"It was pretty appauling to see people scrambling to throw another area under the bus to satisfy their sense of entitlement."
-- MomOf2

Please, this must stop here. I was at the meeting last night and in my opinion the FRY community represented itself well and provided professional arguments and detail. Absolutely, none of the FRY speakers talked about tossing one sub-division under the wheels of a bus. (Yes, I am ignoring the one resident who spoke the was brand new to the area. He went way off the resevation.) FRY came with charts and graphs and did the best to provide their view point. You can not fault them for trying.

When I say this must stop I mean this must also stop in the media as well. The comment in this morning's Sun article in my opinion was incorrect.

"A large majority of the speakers during the public comment were parents of students in the Fry attendance area that wanted to keep attending Neuqua Valley. Instead they suggested moving students from Welch Elementary to Waubonsie."

We can all review the video together, but I did not hear the above from any speaker.

(And no I am not from the FRY community. I am just getting pretty tired of seeing the same posts over and over again.)

I am pleased the meeting was held under control by Mr. Metzger, and the board unlike last years boundary meeting where some parents were acting like unruly adolescents. I am also pleased that the decision came out as it did, and once again, I think the last boundary decision was probably influenced by money and politics. We are all people of the same school district and the same country, and yes sacrifices are made everyday all over. The last boundary decision required sacrifices too but the handling of the land was a complete and total disaster. In fact, I think the legal fees of that waste of money should be paid by the one individual who no longer heads heads up this district, because the tax payers are already burdened enough. Lets concentrate on moving forward with a great school district with 3 SUPER high schools in terms of education, tradition, cultural diversity, sports, and having dedicated parents to back up their students and their school district.

Not that many comments.... everyone must be meeting with their lawyers.

The 3rd high school is a gigantic waste of money and fraud perpetrated on our community. With 2 years of declining elementary school enrollment and the hundreds of seniors attending COD Frontier, we could have built an addition at NVHS for 15,000,000 million and brought in a few additional portable classrooms at the middle school level until the bubble of students had passed. Everyone would have been happy and the addition at NVHS could have been completed by now. Instead, we have a 150,000,000 million dollar boondoggle and no money to operate the 3rd high school. Way to go 204, can't wait for your NEXT tax increase referendum.

Could they possibly be any more incompetent?

I guess all the self-centered YES voters from Tallgrass and White Eagle got what they deserved. They knew the 3rd high school wasn't needed but they voted for it anyway out of greed.

I hope the contribution Bruce Glawe's bank gave to the YES propaganda machine was money well spent.

Overcrowding my ass.

Enjoy your skyrocketing property tax bill.

I think the board meeting last night was a big joke, they came prepared not to listen to any comments or suggestions from Fry representatives, which is very sad. I think board is elected by the residents of Naperville & they should respect & address every issue that they come across. They completely ignored us as if our concerns & our kids don't even exist to them. According to them Rt 59 is the dividing factor so what about Tamarack ??? why they get to go to Neuqua. Waubounsie will be overcrowded even after the new school is build for first few year... WHAT ??? Kids might have to attend classes in trailers... BIG JOKE
What a waste of our money. I think all board members need to step down & let someelse do the job beacause they for sure don't know what they are doing.

Good luck getting the operating funds approved when the SB has effectively pitted neighborhood against neighborhood (again). Like the BB fiasco, only the lawyers will win in this fight. True, there is no perfect solution but when the community is 3-1 against the plan something doesn't add up. Let's hope the SB is more effective in getting proper train crossings for the MVHS and WVHS kids when train traffic increases.

Just a thought if we are talking about logic and geography. I don't get it.

Finally, please note the district's own policy was to try and allow students to attend their local neighborhood grade school - that's it.

They had further committed to not turn walkers into bus riders - a lie of course for certain folks.

And they have some how gone further and bastardized the whole process by trying to keep students in lock step going from ES to MS to HS. The more logical thing to do is a top-down approach HS to MS to ES. Feed Matea with 2 MS, Feed WV with 2 MS and feed NV with 3 MS. Likely zero splits. Look at the totally disjointed MS boundary map - a joke, and the product of this bastardized approach.

The district had chosen to move from a north-south structure to a north-central-south structure (not the residents) and should stick to that view. That would mean taking whatever students you need from the new central area, not the south.

Given the district policy related to ES only, why not take a few of the neighborhoods from the farther northern Welch, Clow and others ES area, into Still MS in the farther north that are already bus riders and closer to NVHS than Fry? Example, Aero Estates. They are closer to Still and WV (2 miles closer) than Fry area, and farther than Fry from Scullen and NV by significant distances.

This would preserve all walkers at Welch and Fry and wherever else. Why does the district keep combining some 20 separate neighborhoods as one ES group moving in lock step through the process?

Springbrook and Fry have a lot more students to bus and have only 2-4 individual neighborhoods - so difficult to divide out.

From what I understand the Fry people had many proposals - the HOA has many on their website, but those were developed by a small group of individuals some of who are on the HOA - not representative of all TG people. There were many more proposals from TG individuals.

In the end Spring Brook rides buses today, but is farther from WV than Fry. Fry will be walkers to NV, so very much closer to NV than Spring Brook is farther from WV. Spring Brook has fastest smoother bus ride going against rush hour traffic - so time wise it may be faster than Fry. However, in both cases many more students go on buses for more time and that is unsafe, so neither area should be bused to WVHS.

When the actual traffic situation is realized - that to travel safely, and get to school on time, Fry has to go up route 59 with rush hour traffic to NY Street, then over the RR tracks and back down to WV, the district will have to re-assess the boundaries, and only then will they start pulling over neighborhoods (not whole ES attendees) that are north central - like Aero Estates. Of course Carla Z will fight this because she lives in Mission Oaks - another candidate closer to WV and farther from Scullen than Fry, and closer to Still MS than Scullen - a no brainer.

I attened the meeting. I praise the board for looking at the needs of the entire district. Homes in TG and WE are significantly closer to WV than those in Springbrook where I live. Basic map reading is a major problem with our friends in TG and WE!

To anonymous at 8:07......

Are you kidding me? I am, what apparently is now referred to as an Owen west parent. You through us under the bus last night! And now after being changed to WV you have the nerve to ask, why not NV?

Rumors/facts as to what happens next:

1. The petition to halt 3rd HS due to various issues covered in full page ad in Sun. This is going to State Attorney General.

2. A group is exploring the building of a Catholic private school in the SW - where the demand exists, along with securing vouchers on a local or state basis - so your tax dollars can go to the school where your kids attend.

3. Overturning the 2006 referendum - a large group here across the district and has legs. This would force district to listen to the people or lose their 3rd HS - a real possibility if they do not put the school where the students are.

4. People are planning to move completely out of district because of the way they were treated. in other words, who wants to go to NV if you are still in 204 - a district that rolls over its residents to cover up "perceived" academic problems. No Child Left Behind Act was designed to focus resources locally to solve the "perceived" problems, not ship smart kids from other places to dilute the "perceived" problem.

5. Scorched earth group called something like "parents for local schools" is formed and has plans to do whatever it takes to kill the third HS. And expect plenty of damage because these are serious well-funded people.

Any other things going on?

The Sun Times needs to investigate the following:

- The Superintendent will benefit from the 3rd high school location.
- The Superintendent children go to NVH instead of WVH as a special treatment.
- Tamarac goes to NVH because a high official at NVH lives there
- All minorities are pushed out of NVH to WVH
- The 3rd high school location is contaminated

As a typical Tall Grass resident who attended the meeting last night, I cannot believe the anger and outright disgust you showed to the residents of Tall Grass. Calling us Elitist? How can you say that? We supported the last referendum in masses and that took us out of Nequa. We supported it then becuase Metea was an acceptable distance to us even though of course we'd prefer to be at the closer school. This labelling is outrighly supported by the Superintendent who set the tone with his opening statements and is continuing to use that label to his advantage and continue the negativity-Shame on Him.

When the 3 children spoke from their hearts we were all moved- it didn't matter where you lived. But Mark Metzger took that moment to threaten to end the meeting stating "you know, we don't have to do this". Again affirming the approval to continue the negativity against Tall Grass. We knew that we had an uphill battle but we thought it would be a civil and respectful forum. Interesting how Mark allowed the woman who supported the boundaries to continue beyond the 2 minute time limit every other participant had. It was laughable...It was clear very early on that we would be dismissed, ignored, deemed irrelevant but like everyone else, we just couldn't take our eyes off the train wreck.

But to their credit in the last minutes of the meeting they did give us a minute of respect in finally mentioning Fry even though we knew it was a lost cause. Thank you to Jeanette Clark for opening up the dialouge to at least acknowledge that Tall Grass/Fry has every right to be upset and that this was indeed a tough decision. It would have been much more difficult if you had totally dismissed our feelings. As you heard Mark Metzger say, our issues are they same as ANY OTHER SUB-DIVISION that would have been moved. It's very convenient for you all to place labels on our neighborhoood. Everyone of you would fight to keep you kids at the school closest to your house and avoid a 40 minute bus ride. No one is faulting Owen East and they got their way. We did not. I witnessed two women making snide facial jestures and comments every single time someone from Fry spoke. So stop throwing stones from your glass houses! People for Tall Grass supported Owen East's move and those of Peterson. We are not the self absorbed people you profess that we are. We clapped for EVERY speaker.

You claim we were mentioning Welch or SpringBrook- Let's correct that right now-if you are honest and stop the mudslinging you will recall the question of SpringBrook came directly from Mr. Bradshaw? And the mention of Welch came from Kathy Birkett herself and not from Tall Grass!! She mentioned that her decision for Spring Brook over Nequa was because Spring Brook would have to pass Nequa well so does Tall Grass. It was a toin toss that we lost. Plain and Simple.

Speaker after Speaker from TG discussed the proximity issue. Additionally we spoke of our concern over splitting the middle school. In fact, there was moment of excitement when there was the brief discussion of sending White Eagle back to Scullen and we applaud Mark Metzger's suggestion as it did show some acknowledgement of our predicament. Our desire was to stay at Nequa but if that was not possible, then we wanted Scullen to be 100% Waubonsie so the kids would not feel torn- We were getting really jazzed that Scullen could be a 100% Waubonsie feeder but we were deflated again when it was determined it would then cause a 3 way split at Still. I wish that the board coudl re-examine the middle schools to diminish splitting for the entire community. Scullen is now left as the most crowded middle school and the board basically tabled that issue. Please School Board, hear us and make this right.

We understand that someone has to move but if you look at Southwest Naperville, we are on the boarder of a split and its hard to take. Those that are across 103rd from us, west of 59 but east of 248th are going to Nequa. We feel strongly that they should feed to Waubonsie with us if you truly don't want islands. The board and Kathy Birkett mentioned 59 being a natural divide so why are the Plainfield,Wheatland,Tamarack communities remaining at Nequa? We know that won't change now, but really, stop hiding behind the Route 59 divider-it's just not accurate.

You may find it interesting that the gentleman who stood up to support the boundaries was a Tamarack resident who mentioned to us (not realizing we were from Tall Grass) that he was glad they were going to the 'better school'. When we mentioned where we were from he started back pedalling saying 'oh...well I meant closer'..that's not coming from us folks. The 'silent majority' that support the boundaries are the residents of the untouched, uneffected subdivisions. Be honest.

At this point we would be very happy if everyone west of 59 was treated the same way and all fed to Waubonsie. That would truly make us a united community. But alas, that won't be happening.

And finally, I cannot got without mentioning at we were ALL appalled at the resident who made the "aurora" comment- as you heard he's new to the neighborhood as does NOT speak for his neighbors. And his research was obviously flawed because when he moved here 8 months ago, we were slated for Metea. If you are honest you would acknowledge that we were booing the loudest when he made that comment!

So let's move past the name calling and personal bashing. We are a diverse and loving family community just like you who did our best to fight for our kids, just like you. Please be honest with yourselves and rise above this pettiness.

I had asked the board to make Scullen a feeder school, at least, for Waubonsie. They already were making Fry have a huge commute. The least they could do is try to fix a few of the "fixable" problems like they did for everyone else except Tall Grass. The Wheatland/Peterson kids could all go together with Fry to Waubonsie. We all live on the same side of 59th. I don't think the board even tried to consider it. As long as they don't split the other middle schools, they thought it's o.k. to have a vendetta against Tall Grass.

MomOf2 and others,

I think the average commute says nothing about what's really happening. What's really happening is about 500-1000 more bus riders are added and the overall district is moving a farther average distance. Of course you will have to go to court to get the actual numbers. The averages provided at the meeting were totally unrealistic. If the overall district's kids are not on buses for more time, then why doesn't the district commit to a 25-30% cut in transportation costs. You will never see that because the cost is going up and so is the reimbursement from the state. Laidlaw has this neat little setup where the district looks the other way, Laidlaw makes the money, and the state (you and me) pick up the tab. Thus, the more kids on buses, the more the district and Laidlaw get from the state. A nice little scheme except for one thing - our children are less safe.

I was surprised to say the least that the school board split Owen in two in order to accomodate John Stephen's neighborhood. I guess he was the only school board member not "taken care of" under the administration's boundary plan. Bruce Glawe made sure that Fry was put at WV with White Eagle and the rest of the board members got unsplit elementary schools and equal or improved commute times. I thought the school board had more integrity or at least they wouldn't be so obvious about what their intentions were.

And a comment for the poster who references "karma" as to why Brookdale is now getting a sweet deal. It makes me sad that you are now gloating about being the big "winners" in this situation. I guess that makes the kids that now have longer commutes and split elementary schools the "losers." Good for you, Brookdale, you are now assigned to a high school filled with losers.

The public commment at the meeting was a waste of time and non-impact. They had decided that they were going to do those two little moves before they even came to the meeting.
I am surprised that the Board did not consider one of the alternative proposals that (1)did not split middle schools (2)had lower transportation cost and shorter student commuting times (thus optimal geographics) and (3)still met the test score balancing. They shouldn't dimiss a plan that met their own criteria better than the selected one without explanation besides "this is really hard". It just points to that there were hidden criteria/agendas and deals and bias. And a rush to get this over.

I am still amazed at the negativity towards and name calling of Tallgrass for wanting what they thought was best for their neighborhoods - negativity expressed by those who are now getting what they want, but were as equally whiney when their own personal interests were threatened.

Momof2

You need to remember your link for the 3.8 miles is not the bus route. The bus will not take a left on Montgomery but rather 87th then a right on Eola and it also will not go via Longwood rd when it is not stopping in that area. For a starting point you also need to pick a better spot in TG then the Fry address High School busses do not pick up at the Elem. School. So if you use the google pedometer you can move street by street and see that the average bus route from Tall Grass to WV is 5.6 miles http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ and the avg to NV is 1.8 Mile via Tall Grass Drive and 1.6 by Dearing Bay

Let's sum it all up in its simplest terms:
We still don't know what the final legal costs and payments will be on the location that didn't work out? Or how much money will actually be left for construction of the new school?
We have a new site that was decided upon in a matter of weeks that is a potential safety and environmental hazzard?
We have a large amount of people in the community that will now attempt to vote down the operating budget? Now that's smart!
The question remains if a 3rd school is even needed due to declining enrollment projections and an uncertain real estate market which will dramatically limit the number of new residents moving into the district.
And finally you add in the fact that the location of the new school could probably not have been selected in a worse possible location based on the population and geographic shape of the district? Pick any 10 possible locations in the district for the new school and this one would rank 10th. Pick another 10 possible locations, this one would rank 10th.
We have an abundance of space at the two existing schools that could be added on to for a fraction of the costs of a new school. Does anyone even think about the fact that this option would reduce operating and transportation costs the most? And also have the shortest average drivetimes?
So what do all of the above comments and questions have in common? They all point out the complete stupidity of this entire process without once mentioning the name of any neighborhood, elementary school or middle school.
The real issues here are much more basic and obvious than any of the individual neighborhood issues.

We were told by the school board that an important consideration to the boundary recommendation was to balance academic achievement among the three high schools. Today, NVHS is clearly considered the school of choice when academic achievements is used as a benchmark.

The current boundary recommendations do more to create the negative stigma associated with WVHS and continues to perpetuate the stigma of the good school (NVHS) vs. the bad school (WVHS). This perception is contagious and destructive to Naperville, Aurora and District 204. After further research and evaluation of the ISAT test scores among the 204 elementary and middle schools made accessible on the 204 website, the stigma is more then perception but also reality.

The board had an excellent opportunity to more evenly balance the academic standards of the three high schools by redistributing three of the four title one schools feeding into WVHS to NVHS and MVHS. Instead, Mr. Metzger refused to open the topic for debate as he lectured everyone on his "alleged" research that he claims did not support the multitudes of arguments supporting a more balanced academic equality by redistributing the three title one schools.

Ms. Tyle added that the academic scores/statistics published in the report cards are not a good benchmark for academic achievement. She characterized them as moving targets suggesting them to be unreliable when measuring academic performance.

My response. . . are you kidding? One question we should be asking the board is what measures or statistics did the administration use when they developed a boundary plan that was allegedly designed to "maximize the academic strength of the three high schools..."?

I feel as though we were taken advantage of by the board/administration in so far that we were given little time to respond to their proposal. The accommodations for last night's meeting were scant and not welcoming for this forum of hearing the public. Their arrogance in not openly debating everyone's concern leads me to believe that this boundary proposal was going to pass regardless what the citizens had to say.

I am one of the "Owen West" parents. I had no problem with the
boundaries before last nights meeting. I was very upset that the board decided and voted upon a change to send the "Owen East" kids to Waubonsie and the "Owen West" kids to Metea. This is unfair to the "Owen West" families. Right now, we are bussed over 5 miles to our school (and 17 of the elementary schools are closer to us than Owen) and now we will be bussed to the farthest high school from us (approximately 6 miles). Why do the families in The Villages of Meadow Lakes/Chicory Place/Stonehaven get shafted every time? We should be able to go to Waubonsie with the "Owen East" kids. We are actually a group of homeowners who want to attend Waubonsie because of its proximity and excellence, as opposed to White Eagle and Tall Grass who do not.

Oh well, I'd better buy some oil stocks and hope that I make some money for all the gas I'm going to be buying in the future to attend school functions. . .

I was at the meeting last night hanging out the door and listening to a monitor that was set at a whisper. I stayed until the end. I walked away thinking what a tragedy for everyone! So many that spoke asked the Board to stop and slow down. I agree. The site of the new high school is not optimal nor is it reasonable for the district. Unreasonable locations create unreasonable boundries. Brach-Brodie although now unattainable was better and what most of us hoped for. And why do we cram into a board room neighbor against neighbor? It is all because bad decisions were made for so long and now the board feels that it has run out of time to make a good decision. And for those unfortunates well just "get over it" was the response from the board. But I feel it is never to late and there is always more time to make things the best they can be. My eyes are wide open and I'm not going to "get over it" anytime soon!

This is exactly what the board wanted...to really turn the community against each other and wash their hands off from any accountability.

TG parents last nite expressed their concerns district wide for middle school splits, longer bus commute and did address the pedestrian bridge issue personal to them. And, as a result the board did review Peterson and Owen situation. In addition, raised the issue of new third high school site - environmental, Canadian railway issue of safety and proximity to hazardous materials being transported (the board itself made a press release on their website of their concerns subsequent to approving the eola rd site), and proximity to student population, open exposure still pending on Brach Brodie lawsuit (mid-March) but going ahead on finalizing the Eola rd site (end of Feb) and what about Board independence in the matter (no independent experienced consultants used and conflict of interest exists).

All the residents affected positively by the proposal do not want to raise the issues but cannot refute that those are valid concerns.

If it helps minimize in your conscious that Brookdale lost out in the last round and now it is TG's turn...that's fine. but two wrongs don't make it right for the community at all the whole situation at question.

The 7 page board proposal dedicated an entire page to the pedestrian walkway issue so you cannot refute that it was a primary reason fry cannot be walkers. The information in the proposal was not accurate and we need to set the facts right.

I also like to clarify that TG did not give a suggestion but asked the board take time to vote on the proposal. I was in the first few rows and did not hear anyone say take welch out so please review the video recording of the meeting and make your statement.

Funny how on the north side of IPSD building there was plenty of parking and there wasn't a problem getting into the building. When I left I drove to the north side of the building and the majority of the cars were over flowing in the parking lots and on the street. Have you ever been to the IPSD building before last night? Seems to me the majority of you were there last night for the first time, and only there to voice your complaints. For those of you in TG have you ever been west of Rt. 59? Well, time to get used to it!!

I also plan on driving from Fry and Scullen during the times school begins and ends and I highly doubt it will take me over 30 minutes to dirve under 6 miles like so many of the guests last night stated. There are also other routes to drive besides Rt. 59 to 75th to Ogden and I can't imagine that will Regardless, you should be so lucky it is only taking your kids less then 30 minutes to get a amazing education in such a high quality school district. Look around the state and the contry at bus times and be proud of what you have.

I commend the IPSD Board for making the changes they made at the end of the meeting, those were needed changes. Thank you also for doing what is right for the majority. There will always be a minority that will not be happy.

Finally, I'm just thankful the rest of the IPSD can stop hearing the 20% of you (and that is a generous number) stop complaining!!!

Meeting was packed, but our subdivision (Brookdale) was communicating well, and many of us showed up early to get seats. I think the board did as well as they could, based on the situation.

Aadil writes - Why Welch is walking community and not FRY, it is difficult to justify the decisions objectively.

my response - Maybe because I can safely walk across 95th street in a crosswalk to get to Neuqua at 4 if not 5 points within 1/2 mile

and I can see Neuqua from my house. I don't have to sit on my roof with binoculars to state this claim as do TG.

I am proud my children live in district 204 because we are blessed with an exceptional schools, all the way around. None the less, I am shocked by the decision by the Board to move ahead with a vote last evening and equally shocked by the comments like Boo Hoo Frybabies made by educated parents.

We are blessed to live in a democracy rich in human and financial resources. Last evening numerous concerned citizens provided information on to why the boundries should be re-considered. Regardless of where one family or subdivision wants their children to go to school, the real issue is were these boundries defined in a scientific and independent fashion by professionals trained to make such recommendations?

The Board asked the Administration to take on a task that is out of their realm of expertise. We are lucky we have fantastic people with experience in education on the Administration. However, they are not scientists, they are not economists, they are not trained nor prepared to take on an analysis of this magnitude. This is the real issue!

Last night's Board set a frigthening precedent. They listened to nearly 70 comments, many of which pointed out flaws in the decision and decision making process and still moved ahead with a vote. This despite the fact that resources for conducting an independent study were given at the meeting.

Whether you are personally pleased with the boundaries as defined or not, YOU should be concerned by the process utilized to make the recommendations. A decision of this magnitude warrents professional dedication to the analysis. In not doing so, we have enabled a Board to make decisions without due dilegence. A precedent I am frightened by...and wonder what other future actions will be taken with the same non-expert approach.

Can anyone list the changes that were made in the meeting?

Moderator Jim: Check out our updated story on the web site.

The meeting last night was disappointing to say the least. There were many valid points brought up by 204 residents that should have been evaluated before this vote was taken. I will write on 2 points.
1) Transportation issues have been inadequately addressed. The adm. relies on the bus company to come up with both travel times and cost figures. I am a small businessman & would never let a vendor dictate future cost structures for my business. Is it just me or has anyone really looked at the additional miles that are going to be increased on a yearly basis.
2) SAFETY The main issue here is two-fold. A) The railroad (Joliet & Eastern) is the small presently lightly used North to South line that bisects all of district 204.This railroad will impact the following grade schools that will attend WVHS & MVHS,
Longwood, Brookdale, Owen, Watts, Cowlishaw, McCarty, White Eagle, Fry, Peterson. This railroad is presently slated to be developed to carry 3-4 times the freight traffic (10 trains now to 40-45 trains in the future). The problem with this increase is the 204 district area impacted by this has only one bridge at New York street. All other crossing are substandard and on small country type roads ( Diehl, North Aurora, Liberty, Montgomery, and 87th st.). Does anyone in district 204 feel that these roads will be upgraded in a timely fashion when all we have to do is look at Route 59 and see how long it has taken to get any relief. B) Site safety is critical as we do know that there are hydrocarbons in the phase 1 soil sampling at the mvhs site. This was stated to be diesel fuel,lets make sure that this affects only a small area, and if not how long will it take to clean up and who ultimately will be responsible for the condition of the soil.
3) Overcrowding This is an area I feel both the board and adm. has done a great job. We are in great need of a third high school and additional middle school. There seems to be agreement between most 204 residents that new growth and current student population is centered from Ogden-75th streets south. Is it then prudent to even explore a far north location. Have we really exhausted all opportunities at the 75th/Rt59 location?

All 204 families will be impacted by the middle and high school placement for decades to come, lets not rush, lets get it right. Our family is not directly impacted by the current boundary change but like all 204 school families we are impacted by the continual overcrowding at the middle and high school level.
Thank you J.J Ashbury

This is exactly what the board wanted...to really turn the community against each other and wash their hands off from any accountability.

TG parents last nite expressed their concerns district wide for middle school splits, longer bus commute and did address the pedestrian bridge issue personal to them. And, as a result the board did review Peterson and Owen situation. In addition, raised the issue of new third high school site - environmental, Canadian railway issue of safety and proximity to hazardous materials being transported (the board itself made a press release on their website of their concerns subsequent to approving the eola rd site), and proximity to student population, open exposure still pending on Brach Brodie lawsuit (mid-March) but going ahead on finalizing the Eola rd site (end of Feb) and what about Board independence in the matter (no independent experienced consultants used and conflict of interest exists).

All the residents affected positively by the proposal do not want to raise the issues but cannot refute that those are valid concerns.

If it helps minimize in your conscious that Brookdale lost out in the last round and now it is TG's turn...that's fine. but two wrongs don't make it right for the community at all the whole situation at question.

The 7 page board proposal dedicated an entire page to the pedestrian walkway issue so you cannot refute that it was a primary reason fry cannot be walkers. The information in the proposal was not accurate and we need to set the facts right.

I also like to clarify that TG did not give a suggestion but asked the board take time to vote on the proposal. I was in the first few rows and did not hear anyone say take welch out so please review the video recording of the meeting and make your statement.

I got the impression SB had already decided and the meeting was just a smokescreen. I definitely thinkk that the site of 3rd high school is wrong and the SB did not have any discussions relating to the site concerns that people had. Its wrong to put a HS where there is no population growth, period. The SB is not able to give answers to the public about the debacle they have created with the BB land and now they are acting unwisely again by advancing with the the northern site. Sad that our SB asks for public comments and does not bother to even acknowledge them.

I was at the board meeting and was very impressed with all the residents who voiced their concerns. The residents had done a thorough due diligence on their concerns with what information was available to them. The residents were at a disadvantage in the sense that inadequate information was posted by the district on their website to provide all the background information that was used in compiling the proposal - enrollment predictions, transportation quotes and routes information obtained from laidlaw and other information. From the time the proposal was presented to public a week ago to the approval time is not adequate time for a resident to file a freedom act for information.

All the residents asked was to slow down and take time to make sure they had addressed everything that needs to be evaluated. As evidenced by the comment made above by Owen West, this is exactly why they should have not made changes last nite and act in haste when all the board members were not fully educated enough on enrollment impacts now and in future but were computing things very quickly at the meeting to make a decision.

What happened last nite would never happen in a board room in the corporate world. I think just as we hold our corporate board under lot of scrutiny...it's time the school board is held accountable.

I hope your children will be able to pull through this tragedy as they attend a brand-new state-of-the-art high school in a town that Money magazine frequently lists as one of the best places in America to raise a family.


The decision is not easy and not perfect. The administration and board members kept repeating that and I totally agree with that.

However, the decision to craft the boundaries is like a medical surgery except that boundary decisions affect lot more lives. A major surgery is rarely performed on a single recommendation. Even the experts seek a 2nd and at times more independent opinions.

No matter how the boundaries are crafted, some people will be left unhappy. In order to create a sense of fairness and justice for the greater good of district 204, it would have been a better way (IMHO) to defer the decision until board consults external independent experts (preferrably out of area/out of state). If the boundary recommendations by adminstration are good, they would have been reinforced by the recommendations of the independent experts and would bring a better and wider acceptability. If there are weaknesses in the recommendations, we would have benefittted from getting better recommendations and yet a wider accaptability.

Again, my observation was, majority of parents raised the concerns about the proximity and distance not so much about NV v/s WV (that appears to be minority view).

If things are subjective like why FRY and not WELCH should go to WVHS. Why Welch is walking community and not FRY, it is difficult to justify the decisions objectively.

If RT59 is the natural boundary why Tamarac is going to Nequa -- again a very subjective issue.

Any suggestion/recommendation generated within the district is likely to have a specific narrower perspective and an element of bias.

IMHO, the best way to eliminate the element of bias and bring a sense of fairness is to have the inputs from the external (preferrably out of state) independent experts.


I'm sure no matter where our students go, all three High schools will benefit from them.

I think the board acted with integrity and honor. They incorporated the feedback that they received from the community into their decisions and brought this matter to a close.

In the end, this plan reduces the overall commute distance for the district along with the average bus travel times. This plan has reduced the longest commutes in the district from 6.1 miles(Brookdale at 6.1 miles although there are currently other neighborhoods with commutes in excess of 7 miles) to 5.7 miles (Watts, see link below).

http://tinyurl.com/2fk7pm

The plan is also geographically contiguous and balances enrollment as the requirements stated.

I am happy that the board was not swayed by a small number of very wealthy and influential people in the Fry attendence area. Several times during the meeting last night, people around me were shouting out to move Welch to WV so that Fry could stay at NV. They want to send those people who are literally right across the street from NV (some withing a couple hundred yards) so a small number in their area can say they walk a minimum of 1+ miles to NV. (The majority of Fry is more than 1.5 miles from NV Green) All this when Fry is only 3.8 miles from WV. It is also interesting to me that distance to BB is nearly identical to WV. I makes me wonder why they are now so apposed to being pulled from NV. Is it that they don't want to attend school with as someone from the area said last night "those Aurora kids" (see link below)

http://tinyurl.com/2tq3fg

It was pretty appauling to see people scrambling to throw another area under the bus to satisfy their sense of entitlement.

I am just glad that this chapter is finally closed so that we can move on as a community and do what is best for our kids.

We attended the meeting last night! But for so many of us that meant a greeting at the door by 'Aurora's Finest' and the news, after a frosty 20 minute wait outside The Crouse Center, that the Fire Marshal was inside counting heads- the building was too crowded. Denied!

I try to be open minded but the not-so-subtle signs that this board is on cruise control made it seem that the comfortable and safe meeting venue was chosen to limit participation. Who knew so many would show up? We did and were still too late to get in. Further, did it ever occur to anyone that a televised meeting would have let so many more see the process and hear the thoughts and concerns of their neighbors?

I know the board has an impossible task and can never please most of the people. But I sense that so many like me are ready to accept a reasonable decision based on the common good. I just have nothing to tell me that the board has ever acted in any other manner than irresponsibly (Brach Brody) and exclusionary. This board has failed to take advantage of opportunities to engage the support of the community by the encouragement of participation in the process. Some open and honest dialog would have won my support- there are a lot of good ideas that fell silent. Round 2: Operational Budget Funding should be interesting. I will be sure to get to The Crouse Center a day ahead of time.

Parting thought: Having been through an equally devisive redistricting in Columbia, Maryland 6 years ago, experience shows that the kids will get over it, the parents- not so much. It will take time to heal but the support and participation of the families is what's necessary to make a school exceptional. We'll get through this eventually. Meanwhile, I'm sure there will be calls to 'circle the lawyers' and fight, but that's America!

In response to the folks in "Owens West", the Brookdale kids were also an "island" thanks to the previous re-districting. There were many parents at those meetings two years ago extolling the virtues of "meeting new friends" and "expanding the boundaries" when speaking about voting for the proposal to make the Brookdale kids an "island". If any of those parents are the ones currently lobbying against the re-districting now on those very same grounds, I have this to say: "What goes around, comes around".
Karma can be a bitter pill to swallow. Have a nice day.

No, we stood in the back and people would not move forward. The school board did not provide a big enough place to meet the damands of the all the parents and students. We ended up leaving because we could barely hear the speakers. We are part of Owen East and have always felt that the boundaries did not make sense. We are the furthest East school, so why send us so far west, then north west. 59 was a border for most schools, but what about a larger street 75th? Nequa is so much closer and much safer.

I think the the meeting last night was a done deal with a few token changes to give the appearance of being reasonable. (I agree with Owen West being "ditched" by Owen East for the sake of their own neighborhoods of Brighton Ridge&WestGlen.)

There was nothing TG could do because it just moved the issue to another neighborhood who would have complained just as loud. I think the Sun incorrectely stated that TG wanted to replace Welch, I believe it was Springbrook. Most of TG is closer to NVHS than most of Springbrook. Maybe TG gains with the smaller school with less competition (due to less kids) academically, athletically, musically, etc.

That was about boundaries last night, but I think the school cost (referendum for operating budget), school site ("unfit")and other (lack of need) are still risks that this may not happen.

The meeting went much better than I expected (and much shorter too). Glad I got there early for a seat.

I think everyone was behind the HS adjustment they made. It's too bad more changes couldn't be made, but the simple fact is everyone can't go to Nequea.

And, to you Frybabies, boo hoo!

I think the board did a commendable job at the meeting. They took into account the two adjustments that really needed to be made, and weren't swayed by large attendence from certain subdivisions.

Good job SB.

Big surprise! This whole thing is a joke. The majority of the district disagrees with the site, and the boundaries. I should have never voted yes the second time the referendum came up. I have learned my lesson though. Let's see how many time the referndum to fund this thing is rejected by the people. The boundaries would not have been this big of an issue if the school was placed where the majority of high schhol students live. But that would mean logic an reason would have to be brought into the equation. This school will never open on time and and the board will have a very difficult time staffing it when the funds are not available. Our great super and his administration will be gone in a few years and it will be us having to pick up the pieces. I would put the for sale sign up today but anyone with half a brain looking to buy would certainly stay clear of this district and it's vision (or lack there of) for the future. How many years until more funds are "required" to add on to NV because of over crowding? The school site, the board and the super are a joke. The only problems with a bad joke is nobody laughs.

Hey, I went to a little Jr. High that was split up into 3 High Schools! Shipped in all different directions! Big Deal, not really. In Naperville, it can be expected as well. I have had neighbors move from our subdivision so they would not "have" to attend a certain Middle School. In addition to attending a certain High School. Guess what, the boundries didn't "work" out for them. Tough break! Schools are only as good as their teachers and programs, it is the Parent's job to take care of other responsibilities, like screening friends and trends. "Nequa or Bust", I don't think so! Go 204. As for the MOVERS, it may be time to relocate so you can go to the only School you will accept. Realtors get ready. Their move may be your GAIN! BK

It didn't suprise me that the board approved the plan with adjustments. What suprised me was that the board's adjustments made our situation go from bad to worse. I made the assumption that we were Owen, period! Not Owen west or east. Well I now know that we are Owen west and we got "cut off at the knees". My letter to the board.

After just returning from the board meeting, I realize that your decisions were not going to make everyone happy, however you made our situation go from bad to worse. When I say "our" I mean Owen West. Little did I know that Owen East would take up their cause and leave Owen west out to dry.

Four years ago you sent my subdivision, The Villages of Meadowlakes along with Chicory, to Owen, the furtherst school in the district. With your revised boundry, by sending Owen East to Waubonsie, (along with the other subdivisions already slated to go to Waubonsie) you have in essence taken 3/4 of Still and sent them to Waubonsie. Meaning the only students from Still to be sent to Metea are walkers. Everyone bused to Still is being sent to Waubonsie. You have isolated the area bounded by Route 59, Montgomery, Frontenac & 75th, we are an island. We are the only area south of 75 going to Metea, the 3rd farthest school from our homes.

When I asked Board member Vickers to clarify what Owen east meant I was told Brighton Ridge, West Glen, etc. I asked what about Owen west and she stated "we didn't hear from anyone from Owen west. By the time I realized that Owen east had their own agenda and that Owen west was apparently "on their own" it was too late to sign up to be heard.

I believe a huge injustice was done to the families living in this area. It wasn't bad enough that we were being sent to the farthest school in the district (for the 2nd time) and the 3rd farthest from our house, you took the majority of the population of Still and have sent them to Waubonsie. You may not see this as a detrement, however I do. You have no idea what this will do to my children.

You only have to live with this decision for tonight, however my children have to live with "your mistake" until 2014.

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