A forum for comments about Naperville news and issues.

Tell us about your "split" school experience

| 305 Comments | No TrackBacks

One aspect of boundaries being redrawn in Indian Prairie School District 204 is the notion of splitting schools: some kids from a middle school will go to one high school while some of their classmates will go to a different high school. Has your kid ever been separated from close friends because of splitting?

The same situation has happened to many parents of elementary school kids who are sent to different middle schools. In either instance, we want to hear from you. Comment here, and if you're willing to talk to us for a story we're working on then please include a working e-mail address at which we could contact you.

We want to know, what anxiety did the situation cause you, your child and family? How did you cope with it? Did your child remain friends with the former classmate after the separation, or did the friendship slip away?

No TrackBacks

TrackBack URL: http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/1742


Finally. The whole issue of the schools is going to be put back on the list of things to do for the School Board. After all we have seen over the last year, who can say that Metzger is a good part of the School Board? Insensitivity, name calling, an inability to accept personal responsibilities? That seems to be the way things are done around the 204 SB. As a matter of fact the ego's seem to be so big that people refuse to actually resign. Just like the Governor. They hang on as long as they can, until someone holds their feet to the fire just a little bit longer than usual. Maybe it is foolish to put my name in the comment, but I feel I have nothing to hide.

We speak of being fair to everyone, which is a wonderful idea in theorty. We also know that when other people are demanding, controling, and blaming we feel resentment of the past, anger of the present, and a fear of the future. With the 204 SB we cannot help but be emotionally unhealthy. How do we turn this around now? How can we move on?

Accept the board can never meet our needs, then move on. Turn resentment into acceptance. Love the members of the board as humans, on a very basic human level, then we turn our anger into love. Finally, the fear of the future just needs to be turned into faith. Faith that our Higher Power (whatever you believe in) will have the ultimate say.

I believe our upcoming election will put in a new board with new ideas which will prove that Adam (the Transparency Guy) was right. Until everything is transparent there will be no correction to the 204 SB Behavior. Adam is now running for Governor (www.adamforillinois.org). I want that guy to win. With total transparency of our government spending we will all WIN big. I cannot imagine every single "ear mark" to prove up how much is going to who, and how each of those persons are related to the elected offical. I know, you know, we all know our political system is horribly corrupt. How do we change it? One person at a time. Funny how I turned this into a plug for Adam, but that is the only way the State will function properly. The only way SB 204 can prove they are not all corrupt. The only way taxpayers can be sure our money is not spent on the wrong things or the wrong people for the jobs.

Anyone who disagrees with me, I respect your decision and we now agree to disagree.

But before you bash me over this bulletin board remember that I enjoy arm wrestling for cash just like in the movie "Over The Top" with Sylvester Stallone. Competing across the USA to win the "Big Rig" so my son and I can continue the over the road lifestyle. That was such a horrible movie. Thinking about that movie makes me want to stab myself in the eye with a fork. In fact I am leaving the computer now to get a fork. If you know me, look for the eye patch.

The bottom line is: split or moving is not help the children. Yes, it may get better over the time.

If it is not help our kid in their grow up period, why we do it? and do it every year!

I was wondering why parts of north Plainfield go to Neaqua Valley? Plainfield has just built two new high schools. Why are any Plainfield residents in district 204? My son has a friend who lives south of 111th and west of Rt. 59 who goes to Neaqua. From his house you can see the new Plainfield HS. Maybe if the district changed boundries and Plainfield residents went to Plainfield schools than NV would be less crowded. Then residents from TG could go to the school nearest them. By the way, I do not live in TG, but I still feel they should go to the schools closest to them (Scullen and NV).

I am upset with the sun for being very judgemental and biased .My 4 kids are now in college but the school board has been making Naperville look like a unlikable town. Why are they trying to make the neighborhoods hate each other and sturring up all these lies and alowed print themThe 2 High schools are excellent and no one thinks one is better than the other,,Neuqua was built to be a mega school..I still feel we only need 2 HS and stop trying to make Metzger look like some hero by building a 3rd un-needed HS

Moderator Jjim: please don't be upset with us - we're just reporting both sides of this story.

To Fletcha: By the skin of their BLEACHED teeth! Love it!!

my family is moving to the naperville area... north of 95th and Book road (i believe it will be east of IL-59). am i safe to assume we will be part of NVHS for a long time? not that i mind the child goes to WVHS or Metea but for proximity i hope its Neuqua.

To Ashbury Mom,

God forbid his family didn't move away.....she would have been scarred for life.

God forbid he would have broken up with her...she would have been scarred for life.

God forbid they would have went to different colleges...she would have been scarred for life.

Simple solution...don't allow your 6th or 5th graders to date, ever!

WV needs to get a life.

I've been in a situation where my daughter goes to one school and her boyfriend was sent to another school. This created a huge problem and my daughters grades suffered because she could not see her boyfriend on a regular basis. They have since parted ways but it has scarred her for life. I want this issue resolved and all kids going to the same school so this does not happen to my 6th and 5th grade daughters.

I have been consumed with these blogs for a week and have come to realize that the negativity they have produced has spilled into my personal life...shame on me! I have posted many a negative blog on this site as well as the others. What's done is done. Now before you attack me and say" well you're probably not effected", I will tell you I most certainly am. I am an Owen parent and after the board meeting am now an Owen West parent. I most certainly did not get what I wanted or what I thought was best for my children. I do still have reservations about the site, the commute, the train and all the other issues, but I find it in the best interest of my children to help them transition into MV. Yes my daughter will be a Warrior for a year and then a Mustang for 3, but she will also be the first graduating class of MV and will be able to help transition her sister to MV in 2010. I am not in agreement with the SB or the decisions that they made, but I've been handed lemons and now I have to make lemonade! I urge everyone to find the peace in themselves to help their children make the best transitions.

Inclusion of the text above by wv is in violation of copyright laws. Either delete it or shut down this board.

Here is the content from the link. It didn't work for me either so I just posted it.


The status quo is a ticket to obsolescence. Why? Because the world around us is in motion, changing at dizzying speed. That's why schools need to prepare students for a profoundly different future. This article examines ten major trends and the challenges they present for schools, school systems, and communities.

Ten Trends

Ten major trends are shaking the foundations of society as we've known it. Nowhere will these seismic shifts have greater impact than in our schools. After all, educational institutions are not only forced to function within their environments, but they are also expected to prepare their students, not for the past, but for the future. Today's children will live, work, and interact with everyone from professional colleagues to parents and grandparents in profoundly different ways

Environmental Scans, Outside Forces, and Trends

Some call it "an environmental scan." Others refer to "outside forces." Growing numbers of people are tracking what they call "societal trends." One thing is sure-any organization that ignores or even makes an effort to fend off the outside world is taking a giant leap toward insularity and obsolescence. The term "trends" was chosen for this study, because it provides a framework for presenting demographic and other forces in context. The 10 trends identified in this study:

Invite comparisons with the existing situation in a local community, state, or nation.
Remind everyone concerned about education that students who fill our classrooms today will need to survive and thrive in a much larger environment, one that will be even more complex than their existing neighborhood.
Help educators and others think beyond the important issues du jour and stimulate generative thinking about the implications of these and other trends for students, schools, communities, businesses, and a plethora of additional institutions.
Provide clues about the opportunities and obstacles that educators and communities may need to address on the pathway to an even brighter future.

Trend 1: For the First Time in History, the Old Will Outnumber the Young. (Younger Older)

When life expectancies and average ages go up and birth rates and death rates go down, a society becomes inevitably older. That's exactly what's happening in many countries, including the United States. Let's look at the handwriting on the wall.

In 1950, there were 16 people working for every person drawing benefits from the US Social Security system. By 2030, when the baby boomers are between 66 and 84 years of age, there will only be about two people working for every beneficiary.
In 2000, 27% of the US population was 18 or under, and 21% 55 or older. By 2020, 25% will be 18 or under and 30% will be 55 or older.
In 1789, when the US was born, average life expectancy was about 35 years. By 1930, it had climbed to 59.7 years. At the turn of the 21st century, it stood at 76-plus and was continuing to rise.
This unprecedented shift raises concerns about issues ranging from the solvency of pension programs to competition for resources between those who are older and those who are younger.

What are the implications for schools? For one, education systems will be challenged to deal with growing enrollments at a time when a substantial portion of the teaching force is on the verge of retirement. The US Department of Education predicts that the nation's public schools will need to attract 2.2 million new teachers before 2010.

Of course, every challenge creates an opportunity. For example, schools might consider recruiting early retirees with valuable experience in other fields to prepare for new careers as educators. Older people might also be invited to share their rich life experience as volunteer tutors or aides.

Growing numbers of retirees with in-depth experience in the application of technology might be willing to help students connect what they are learning to real-life situations. At the same time, adult and community education programs, tailored to the needs of older citizens, could substantially expand the role of schools and broaden community understanding. Geriatric care will offer growing numbers of opportunities for students who are thinking about future careers.

Future focused schools will offer courses and activities that not only prepare students to better understand aging but also emphasize the importance of cross-generational communication. Some schools might even host centers for older citizens or geriatric day-care programs under their roofs.

Trend 2: The United States Will Become a Nation of Minorities. (Majority/Minority Minority/Minority)

By mid-century, no single racial or ethnic group will make up a significant majority of the US population. By 2050, the longstanding non-Hispanic white majority will represent 53% of the population, down from 71% in 2000. Shortly after 2050, the United States will become a nation of minorities. That change will take place even more quickly among young people aged birth to 18, according to the US Census Bureau. In 2000, 64% of children in this age group were non-Hispanic white. By 2050, only 46% will be non-Hispanic white.

As more children from a variety of racial and ethnic groups enter US schools, the diversity gap between teachers and administrators and their students is widening. In the early part of the 21st century, one education leader predicts, minorities will comprise 41% of American students, compared with just 5% of US teachers.

Providing equal opportunity and closing the achievement gap among students of various groups are among the most demanding issues facing schools at the turn of the century. This challenge will be magnified by the move toward standards and high-stakes testing. In a fast-changing world, any gaps are multiplied exponentially.

We can expect school systems to intensify their efforts to attract and keep excellent teachers and administrators from a growing array of racial and ethnic groups to serve as role models. Pressure will grow for outstanding teachers to be assigned to schools and students with the greatest needs. Generally, schools will offer an even greater international focus, help students become more culturally sensitive, and develop their proficiency in other languages. As our nation becomes continuously more diverse, we must understand the people and cultures of other parts of the world if we hope to understand our own country.

Whether students live in multicultural/multi-ethnic communities or not, they will need to be prepared to understand and work with people whose heritage is different from their own.

What are the consequences of not dealing effectively with challenges posed by this earthshaking trend? One could be a nation or community divided against itself, as people retreat into enclaves. Take a look at the symptoms: 25% of all Hispanics in the US live in four counties; 81% of people who live in Hidalgo County (McAllen), Texas, are Hispanic; 76% of people who live in Detroit, Michigan, are black; and 62.3% of people who live in Honolulu County, Hawaii, are Asian.

Trend 3: Social and Intellectual Capital will become the Primary Economic Value in Society.
(Industrial Age Global Knowledge/Information Age)

The new economic values in the world economy are social and intellectual capital. In an economy driven by technology and information, a dramatically increasing level of knowledge is needed to function in any occupation, ranging from managerial and professional to technical, service, manufacturing, and agricultural. One thing is clear in an economy based on social and intellectual capital-what you know and who you know both count.

Knowledge is the new coin of the realm, the new basis for wealth. According to Daniel McKnight (1999), president of High Performance Strategy Associates, "You can't use knowledge up. As you use it, it grows, creating a perpetual wealth machine."

The extraordinary new economy is held together, strengthened, and rapidly advanced through the recognition and wise use of social capital such as relationships among employees, suppliers, customers, researchers, industry experts, and the community. Unleashing and connecting the collective knowledge, ideas, and experiences of people creates and heightens value.

How will the accelerating move toward social and intellectual capital affect schools? Educators and their communities need to stay in touch with developments in society so they can know what knowledge and skills students will need to be prepared for the future. They should also capitalize on their own social and intellectual wealth. Schools develop hundreds, even thousands, of relationships with students, staff, parents, other units of government, nongovernmental organizations, universities, the surrounding community, business and professional colleagues, vendors, and other groups. Each and every school should be seen as a source of intellectual strength.

Twenty-first century schools will move away from the factory model, a relic of the Industrial Age. For example, schools and educators need to help students learn to collaborate with others and work in teams; sift through exploding volumes of often conflicting information; engage in both critical and creative thinking; use a vast array of technological tools; understand and respect other cultures and people different from themselves; grasp both their rights and responsibilities as citizens in a democratic society; possess high levels of perseverance and curiosity; and become keenly aware of and sensitive to the ethical dimensions of their discoveries, conclusions, and actions.

Since many students will one day be working on their own or in cyber-connected communities, all will need management skills. They will also need to understand the importance of being entrepreneurial, not just to make money but also to improve life in their families, communities, countries, and world.

Of course, to make this type of information age education possible, educators should become learning entrepreneurs, demand preparation and professional development programs that challenge existing habits and mindsets, and provide intellectual leadership for a global knowledge/information age. Unleashing the genius of people will become a primary focus of every education institution, every community, and every country, if it hopes to gain a foothold in the international marketplace of ideas, products, and services.

Trend 4: Education Will Shift from Averages to Individuals. (Standardization Personalization)

With knowledge increasing at an unprecedented rate, test scores sometimes dipping, and international competition knocking at the door, education reformers in the 1990s agreed that something had to be done. The answer was to impose standards and high-stakes tests to direct the curriculum, demand certain levels of performance, and insist on penalties if the standards weren't met.

Now, those standards and high stakes tests are raising new questions and concerns about high stakes consequences. Are the standards focused on preparing students for the future or for the 1950s, virtually freezing the system in the past? Does the pressure to do well on high-stakes tests narrow the curriculum? Are some students being pushed out because they simply can't cut it, and the resources and widespread willingness are not there to keep them in school? Are teachers and administrators being driven from the field and others discouraged from pursuing education careers because adequate resources are often not provided to help students reach the standards?

If students are not able to pass those tests and if schools lose their accreditation, parents will become alarmed about both their children's progress in school and about their property values. Let's face it. The price of a house is often tied directly to the performance of students at the local school.

Therefore, the trend toward standards and high-stakes testing will likely incite a movement toward ensuring that support is provided for individual students to reach high levels of learning. Demand will grow for personalization rather than a system often driven by prescribed high-stakes tests that produce averages, demand uniformity, and sustain a scoreboard mentality.

What are the implications for 21st century schools? Educators will be expected to bring out the individual talents and abilities of each and every student. Personalizing education will be the key to helping students reach and exceed standards. (That's what most educators have wanted to do for decades, if not centuries.) Schools will move toward more performance-based testing, ensure that standards do not narrow the curriculum, and educate their communities about the benefits and limits of testing.

Trend 5: The Millennial Generation Will Insist on Solutions to Accumulated Problems and Injustices. (Silents, Boomers, and Xers Millennials)

Members of the Millennial Generation, those born roughly between 1982 and 2003, will insist on solutions to an accumulation of society's problems and injustices. Their impatience and drive will very likely shake the world and its institutions, including schools.

Generational experts predict that the Millennials, much like the GIs four generations before them, will be willing to lay down their lives for causes they consider right and just. They will be willing to fight for democracy and against despotism, rescue the environment, and develop alternative sources of energy. They will be front and center in debates about issues surrounding genetic engineering and biotechnology, basic human rights, economic fairness in an emerging global economy, and closing the digital divide.

It seems clear that the Millennial Generation will join and lead the fight, in their local communities, in their countries, and in the world. The question is how they will lead it. A lot is riding on how they are educated.

Schools will need to intensify their efforts to help students become civil, responsible citizens, with a good sense of self and the ability to make peaceful change. That means students will need a firm grounding in civic education and in making change democratically. Schools will help students develop teamwork and conflict management skills, use technology to build a case and address a cause, and build media literacy skills.

Preparing Millennials to make positive change will be among the most challenging and exciting roles of schools in the early 21st century. Astute educators will give students a voice in decisions that affect them, become facilitators of learning since students have immediate access to a worldwide array of information, accept change as normal, offer generation-spanning professional development, and prepare students to deal with possible intergenerational conflict by teaching the benefits of collaboration.

Schools will be caught in the middle of intergenerational battles for support of education. Highly motivated Millennials, as they become parents, will insist on increased public investment in the young. At the same time, they will find themselves outnumbered by older generations who will likely demand greater resources to meet their own needs.

Throughout their lives, Millennials will be seeking ways to build a better world. That means schools, if they constantly show they are mission driven, will be able to attract many talented and dedicated people into education careers.

Let's Hear It From The Kids…

If each generation could finish up what they start, then it would be fine, and the world would be a better place for children." Sasha, age 9

I'd like to change the world. I don't know how else to say that." Clay, age 14
Source: The Future According to Kids, published by Nickelodeon television network, 1999

Trend 6: Continuous Improvement and Collaboration Will Replace Quick Fixes and Defense of the Status Quo. (Quick Fixes and Status Quo Continuous Improvement)

Two words describe how any organization, public or private, will survive and thrive in the 21st century: continuous improvement. No matter how good we are today, we need to become even better tomorrow.

The push for continuous improvement is fueled by competition, technology, new thinking, and growing impatience among people who want products and services that work, meet their needs, and are delivered on time. Demand for quality, effectiveness, and service is increasing.

Like their counterparts in business and government, growing numbers of teachers and administrators are taking the need for continuous improvement seriously. More are doing regular surveys of students, staff, and community, involving people in identifying problems and making improvements, and undertaking system-wide efforts to reshape their schools and school system for a global knowledge/information age.

Organizations that don't continuously improve won't be around for long-there will be others with an entrepreneurial spirit waiting to step in to fill the "opportunity gap." This is as true in education as it is in business. At the turn of the century, some private firms are opening for-profit schools, and others are selling existing school systems programs that amount to a new way of doing business.

Schools must move beyond defensiveness and toward solutions. While schools have done a magnificent job of preparing students for an industrial age, they are now presented with the opportunity of a lifetime-shaping the education system for the future. Leadership through inclusion; aligning the education system with student and community needs; maintaining the flexibility to deal with opportunities, needs, and interests; and incorporating the principles of continuous improvement at all levels, from the system to the classroom, are keys to a brighter future and the very survival of public or private schools.

Of course, schools can't do the job alone. To be effective, they need to work in collaboration with businesses, higher education, government, nongovernmental organizations, consultants, professional and trade associations, and a host of others.

Handwriting on the Wall

"Companies come and go with the lightning speed of a computer's delete button." Source: Caption on exhibit describing the history and future of the American office, National Building Museum, Washington, D.C., 2001)

Trend 7: Technology Will Increase the Speed of Communication and the Pace of Advancement or Decline. (Atoms Bits) (Macro Micro Nano)

Twenty-first century technology is having a profound effect on every person, every organization, and every nation on earth. Those who have it and know how to use it are moving forward at an unprecedented rate. Those who don't are declining at the same dizzying pace.

New technologies will not only help schools deliver a sound education, but they will also play a central role in helping today's students shape tomorrow's world. The Internet and other technologies will continue to bring an expanding world of information and ideas into the classroom. Because many students have more technology in their bedrooms than some schools have in their classrooms, they will come to class armed with more information on some subjects than their teachers. Some will have spent hours mining that information from the Internet and other sources.

That means a new role for teachers. Great teachers will not only serve as subject matter specialists but will also become partners with students, helping them learn how to turn information into usable knowledge and knowledge into wisdom. Rather than simply dispensing information, 21st century teachers will become orchestrators and facilitators of learning.

Increasing numbers of "connected" schools and school systems will use their web sites, e-mail, and other technologies to become the learning centers of their communities. They will virtually open the classroom to the world, help students use communications and other technologies to deal with real world problems and opportunities, offer high-tech vocational education, engage students in continuous self-learning; and help those students understand the ethical dimensions of technology.

At the same time, schools will use emerging technologies to help drive the restructuring of the system, the redesign of school facilities, and the shape of professional development. All will be faced with closing the digital divide that separates the technology rich from the technology poor.

Educators will be challenged to help students discover how technological skills are essential in any walk of life, from building a bridge and conducting medical research to diagnosing an engine problem at a car dealership or designing a community park. With increased downsizing and career changing in the marketplace, technology skills are very much like a professional insurance policy.

The automobile, highway system, air travel, space exploration, radio, television, computers, e-mail, the Internet, nuclear energy and weapons, and pharmaceuticals ranging from fertility drugs to the birth control pill and Prozac have brought exponential change during the 20th century. What will drive our 21st century economy? It will be nanotechnology, which refers to technology at the molecular level. Moving from macro to micro to nano will likely mean pharmaceuticals concocted to match our genetic makeup and megamaterials such as superconductors that will lead to quantum increases in computer speed and capacity, making Moore's Law obsolete. In turn, these technologies will be driven by our accumulated social and intellectual capital.

Who will develop nano technologies that will drive the economy of the future? Who will discover and develop alternative sources of energy and bring them to market? It will be the students who are in our schools today, and those schools need to prepare them for these monumental opportunities.

Let's face it. If we don't do it, someone else will!

Trend 8: Knowledge Creation and Breakthrough Thinking Will Stir a New Era of Enlightenment. (Information Acquisition Knowledge Creation)

Knowledge is increasing exponentially. At the same time, technologies are making ideas and information instantly available to people around the world and in all walks of life. As people sense relationships between and among ideas, information, and experiences, they see things in a new light. That's how knowledge creation and breakthrough thinking take place.

The school that makes knowledge creation and breakthrough thinking a central function makes itself indispensable. Anyone developing a program focused on developing intellectual entrepreneurs and producing enlightened or renaissance students will discover fragments looking for a framework.

Much of what needs to be done, in varying degrees, is already there: interdisciplinary teaching, applications of cognitive research, instruction for multiple intelligences, a focus on teaching thinking and reasoning skills, and a commitment to helping students turn information into knowledge and knowledge into wisdom.

At the end of a class, teachers might ask students, "Does what we've studied today trigger any ideas for you?" As students process what they've learned and couple it with other learning and their life experience, they will, before our very eyes, create new knowledge and engage in breakthrough thinking. The enlightened student will see relationships across all disciplines and overcome what Harvard professor and biologist Edward O. Wilson calls "the ongoing fragmentation of knowledge."

Ideas converge as we think about the future. Therefore, enlightened school systems will make futures studies an essential part of education. People, communities, and even countries have gotten into trouble because they didn't have a plan and shot from the hip without paying attention to benefits and consequences. Students and educators need to understand the importance of considering alternative futures and of planning backward from outcomes we'd like to see.

Get Set for Interdisciplinary Careers

Actually, interdisciplinary careers are already here. However, their number is accelerating. Here are a few:

Bioinformatics: the fusion of high-powered computing and biology that is revolutionizing medicine.
Telematics: combining telecommunications and computer science skills to design new e-cars…to make them "telematic.

Trend 9: Scientific Discoveries and Societal Realities Will Force Difficult Ethical Choices (Pragmatic Ethical)

Scientific discoveries and societal realities are constantly pushing the ethical envelope. In a world poised for unprecedented progress, we have seen a mind-boggling escalation in the possible benefits and consequences of our actions. The choices we make will profoundly affect the future.

Society and its schools need to produce students who have a sense of civic virtue, who understand the need for a code of ethics, who understand and can practice the principles of conflict resolution, who are tolerant and accepting of people unlike themselves, and who understand both the consequences of their own actions and the effects of their actions on others.

In addition, schools must model ethical practice. A school system that teaches students about democracy but never involves people in decisions that affect them is sending the wrong message. Because we learn about ethics primarily through precept and example, school systems, as leading institutions in the community, play a central role in setting an example for ethical behavior.

While teaching values and ethics can stir a heated debate, most communities are demanding that their schools address these subjects. Concepts such as courtesy, due process, honesty, integrity, justice, respecting the rights of others, tolerance, and truth are bread and butter to a democratic society.

What are some of the ethical issues today's students will face? Here are a few: world poverty and inequities in the distribution of resources; violations of basic human rights; production, distribution, and control of weapons; trade in illicit drugs; computer ethics; genetic engineering and cloning; stewardship for the environment; dealing with crime and corruption; and introducing new life forms on other planets.

Demand will continue to grow for curriculum and activities that build character and civic responsibility. US schools and American society have been significantly successful in teaching students and other citizens about their rights. Now, there is growing awareness that keeping those rights depends on an equal commitment to exercising responsibility.

Twenty-first century schools will be expected to clarify their role in teaching about ethics, expand their civic and character education programs, make critical and creative thinking basic skills, deal effectively with inappropriate behavior and violence, become an ethical resource for the community, and include an ethical component in most course.

While teachers will not dictate an ethical code, they can ask students to think, write about, and discuss the ethical implications of what they are learning. They can stimulate students to consider the possible effects of their ideas and actions on themselves and others.

Trend 10: Competition Will Increase as Industries and Professions Intensify Their Efforts to Attract and Keep Talented People. (Unemployment Hyperemployment)

The battle to attract and keep talented people is getting more intense. There are several reasons: growing numbers of people are retiring; new industries are paying hefty salaries, offering compelling benefit packages, and altering working conditions to meet the demands of diverse generational groups; and relatively low unemployment means fewer people are between jobs. In attracting and keeping people, ranging from teachers and administrators to bus drivers and custodians, schools are increasingly on the short end of the stick.

Nationwide, some 2.4 million teachers were expected to be needed between 1998 and 2008 to make up for teacher attrition, retirements, and increased enrollments, according to National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) projections. That number jumps as high as 2.7 million when researchers factor in declining student/teacher ratios based on nationwide class size reduction efforts. Nearly half of the nation's school systems are reporting a shortage of qualified candidates for the principalship, and applications for superintendencies have dropped precipitously.

Old policies and procedures for attracting people into education careers may not be appropriate for today's realities. For example, more flexibility would allow younger teachers to work part time in job-sharing arrangements while they raise their children, rather than forcing them to leave the profession. Experienced teachers and administrators could continue working rather than take early retirement if schools offered a reduced schedule. Schools might try to attract highly experienced people who may be considering retirement or just a change from positions outside education and are willing to prepare for a new career.

Dealing with the Trends

The trends highlighted in this article cannot be ignored. Already, these seismic shifts are affecting school systems, communities, states, nations, and the world.

The status quo has disappeared. Incremental change often comes up short. That means educators and communities are faced with tackling these monumental trends head on. A dynamic community, one that is truly poised for the future, is constantly planning for how it can become even better tomorrow than it is today.

Every school system, any organization for that matter, needs to regularly engage in visionary short-term and long-term planning. Of course, organizational leaders, such as superintendents and principals, need to be sure that plans are based on informed discussions and decisions.

To deal with the perils and opportunities embedded in these trends, school districts could appoint an ongoing Trends Council that would engage in generative thinking. In other words, those councils would be assigned to study these and other trends and issues, and then report their potential impacts to educators and the community. The Council would not make decisions but would advise the school system and perhaps the community at large on how it might prepare to deal with these and other trends. This release of genius and gathering of intellectual and social capital community-wide could help shape the system to ensure that it is capable of preparing students for the future.

And when the plan is developed, it is important to engage the community and educators in renewing it regularly. Not only are their ideas important, so is their understanding and support.

The world is changing at warp speed. If they play their cards right, schools can lead that change as they educate their students and communities to create an exciting and even more hopeful future.


Posted by: LetsMoveOn | February 20, 2008 12:19 AM ....

I agree whole- heartedly with your attitude! As I have stated in much earlier posts, I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at what you will find at WVHS. I know I was! You may even start to wonder what all the talk about building "inequities", etc. was all about!You will find "state of the art" (like my phrase:)computer technology,science labs,athletic facilities and classrooms.Seasoned, award winning educators to boot.We also have a very active and profitable booster club and outstanding school spirit! You will soon experience first hand, one of the best kept secrets in the district...WVHS! I will have one child at WVHS and one at MVHS in two years. My child's middle school (up North) will also be "split". Everything will be okay! Our children will take our lead and adopt our attitude moving forward ...let's make it a postive one!

I had asked the board to make Scullen a feeder school, at least, for Waubonsie. They already were making Fry have a huge commute. The least they could do is try to fix a few of the "fixable" problems like they did for everyone else except Tall Grass. The Peterson kids could all go together with Fry to Waubonsie. We all live on the same side of 59th. I don't think the board even tried to consider it. As long as they don't split the other middle schools, they thought it's o.k. to have a vendetta against Tall Grass.

Ahh, can we now move on with building our 3rd HS?

Every person on here who is commenting about sending 'Plainfield kids' to Plainfield schools or 'Aurora kids' to Aurora schools or 'Bolingbrook kids' to Bolingbrook schools needs to learn the history of District 204.

District 204 is NOT the "Naperville" School District. It was formed from the Wheatland School (in Plainfield), Indian Plains School (in Eola) and Granger School (in Aurora). (Note that none of those schools was in Naperville).

The area of Bolingbrook that is in 204 was part of the original Wheatland School Distict because the farmers who owned that land paid to have it in that district. The land was later annexed into Bolingbrook. Community annexations have nothing to do with school district boundaries.

I recommend that you all take a step back and read some of Gary Marx's educational trends of the future and realize diversity is something we all need to embrace and accept as a way of life in a global economy. The link to a website of his ten trends to the future in education is attached: http://www.ncacasi.org/jsi/2002v3i1/ten_trends.


WV- I don't think that even if they made WVHS the Taj Mahal, TG would want to go there. They don't want the location.

But it looks like they will be going there .... IF Metea ever gets built and the operating budget referendum gets passed.

And I thought that it couldn't get worse, but the SB did just that. My letter to the SB....

After just returning from the board meeting, I realize that your decisions were not going to make everyone happy, however you made our situation go from bad to worse. When I say "our" I mean Owen West. Little did I know that Owen East would take up their cause and leave Owen west out to dry.

Four years ago you sent my subdivision, The Villages of Meadowlakes along with Chicory, to Owen, the furtherst school in the district. With your revised boundry, by sending Owen East to Waubonsie, (along with the other subdivisions already slated to go to Waubonsie) you have in essence taken 3/4 of Still and sent them to Waubonsie. Meaning the only students from Still to be sent to Metea are walkers. Everyone bused to Still is being sent to Waubonsie. You have isolated the area bounded by Route 59, Montgomery, Frontenac & 75th, we are an island. We are the only area south of 75 going to Metea, the 3rd farthest school from our homes.

When I asked Board member Vickers to clarify what Owen east meant I was told Brighton Ridge, West Glen, etc. I asked what about Owen west and she stated "we didn't hear from anyone from Owen west. By the time I realized that Owen east had their own agenda and that Owen west was apparently "on their own" it was too late to sign up to be heard.

I believe a huge injustice was done to the families living in this area. It wasn't bad enough that we were being sent to the farthest school in the district (for the 2nd time) and the 3rd farthest from our house, you took the majority of the population of Still and have sent them to Waubonsie. You may not see this as a detrement, however I do. You have no idea what this will do to my children.

You only have to live with this decision for tonight, however my children have to live with "your mistake" until 2014.

Well it appears that the decisions have been made and now it is time to move on.

Rather then continuing to expend energy fighting what appears to be a lost cause - would really like to see all the passion, energy and enthusiasm be put toward the future.

Despite all the negativity targeted at Tallgrass and to a lesser degree White Eagle - there are a huge number of parents who care about their children's education and have made a difference at Fry and Scullen through their involvement in those schools.

Get involved in parent organizations at WV, have the homeowners boards reach out to the principals and get a tour of the school and an idea of what the needs are and how they can be addressed with assistance from parents.

Also hold the school district administration and school board as accountable as possible for the decisions they have made. What will be done to make sure early, late busing is available as alluded to; are all the acedemic and other programs equitable and available across the schools, with all the savings from the MV site what infrastructure and building improvements should be done to WV to bring the 3 facilities as close as they can be to parity.

Maybe I am naive, maybe too accepting of the decision but over time I have a lot more respect for people who make the best of the hand they are dealt rather then complain about it.

If Tall Grass is determined to be "walkers" to NVHS, then their busses should be taken away so that the district doesn't waste money on unneeded transportation.

Long live the White Eagles of Aurora and the Tall Grasses they habitat.

I keep reading this post and think that most people are missing the point of the third high school and how it was sold to the taxpayers by the Board of Education. The first referendum failed because we didn't want it. The second referendum passed because the Board made it an issue of boundaries and not need of a new high school. They based the boundaries on a property they couldn't afford, sold it to over 50% of us, and when they went to court and couldn't get the land. They have found a new piece of land on the different part of the district and are making it another discussion on boundaries for the district. They were smart because they made the referendum appear to be tied to a boundary map, but never changed the question to base it on the boundary map presented. Everything they have done is legal and got the desired result of them and over 50% of the district, a new high school.

Now we are in a different boat and the boundary discussion is back, many are not happy because they feel that the board has tricked them into a new high school that many are still questioning if we need because of non-binding boundary discussion tied to a referendum that they voted yes for. Also, now we are all fighting on this blog about Naperville kids vs. Aurora kids and are losing sight that childern today are not only competing against the kid across from them in class or in the next community, but instead they are competing in a global market place against kids in China and India. I recommend that you all take a step back and read some of Gary Marx's educational trends of the future and realize diversity is something we all need to embrace and accept as a way of life in a global economy. The link to a website of his ten trends to the future in education is attached: http://www.ncacasi.org/jsi/2002v3i1/ten_trends.

We are all in this mess now created because of the referendum and the promise of certain boundaries for our "Yes" vote. Instead of fighting over the boundaries we need to look at the Current board and start asking hard questions to them and make them start looking at ways of improving the quality of the spaces within WV to bring them up a level of quality at NV and MV. Once we do this we will have equality for all of the District.

Any feedback from the meeting?

Just heard that Brighton Ridge/West Glen ("Owen East") will be moved to WVHS from Metea. That messes economic diversity aka test scores for Metea.

FYI Mapquest info -- Fry to NVHS 1.45 miles, with half of TG living south of Fry.

To sometimes you get what you deserve-

The last time I checked if Tall Grass residents call 911 Naperville Police show up. Not Aurora Police. Get your facts straight.

Re: TG HOA proposals. Not only does the TG proposal swap Fry for Springbrook to attend Neuqua, they also have Springbrook moving from their current middle school (Gregory) to Still. So now we also have to bussed twice as far to go to middle school. Why is it right to split our children from their friends and make us travel farther. I do not see how this is right.

Any news from the Board meeting? How many in attendance? My feeling is that the push to open in 2009 will squash any alternatives or any discussion that the North site is unsuitable.

Tallgrass had be renamed Allass and White Eagle has be renamed VoteYesOops! Enjoy your new, er, old school and your skyrocketing property tax bills and thanks for building me a new school.

Voted No and will attend the new school.

Sorry distracted (watching Idol) and should have said bussers or non-walkers in that last sentence of my last blog.

The west of 59 argument is old and dead. Naperville annexed the land priot to the build up and it is Naperville. All residents bought into a Naperville address. TG & Ashwood & Tamarack & Tamarack West are not in the same position as WE on the Aurora address thing, which I understand to be a split neighbrhood.

Well this debate shall soon end since the SB meeting is going on as we speak. I hope, they emerge from the meeting with a definitive decision so that we can stop this madness!!!


Using my higher education, I mapquested Springbrook Elementary to WVHS and it was 6.8 miles. Then I mapquested Fry to WVHS and it was 6.3 miles. That's not significant. Sure some feeder neighborhoods to Springbrook are further east of the Springbrook school, but most of Tallgrass is south of Fry (at much as 1 mile). So I would say that's not a significant difference anyway you look at it.

But now lets take the distance to NVHS. Fry is .9 miles and Springbrook is 2.4 miles.

The new school should be where the new growth is, PERIOD!

To the person who stated the above. There is a lot of growth in far east Aurora. Naperville is pretty much maxed out as is DuPage Aurora. The facility is needed for the numbers already here and projected new residents. I don't believe that south Naperville will have any more new residents than DuPage Aurora. Statistically, south Naperville has more foreclosures than DuPage Aurora does therefore the South Naperville numbers will go down since a lot of the foreclosure homes sit empty.

>>The new school should be where the new growth is, PERIOD!

Except there is no growth; elementary school enrollment has declinded the last 2 years in a row for a 284 student decline. The 3rd HS will never be needed and is a waste of taxpayer money.

If you voted YES for wasteful spending and higher taxes, then you get whatever school they give you. If you don't like it, tough sh*t!

If you live in Tallgrass or White Eagle, 2 of the biggest supporters of the VOTE YES propaganda machine, I hope you get what you deserve for your greed and ignorance.

You live in Aurora, you should go to a school in Aurora. Oh yeh, TG and WE will tell you they are in Naperville but everyone knows that west of 59 is Aurora, no matter what they call it.

Missed A Point - where do you live? I need a reference of where you are and what your opinions are based on. I live where my neighborhood is not affected by the boundary change and have one 8th grader and one 9th grader. I am trying to look at this neutrally and have read every opion and blog as well as attended all public sessions last year, but I am can see that TG is getting bashed by every neighborhood, and these neighborhoods are only looking after their own interests and their own neighborhood just as TG is. I have to laugh at those who are "safe" pick on the sacrificial geographic lambs of TG so they meet their own agendas.

Missed A Point: While you are looking at the TG proposal on their website, check out their distance study and you will see that with the safe passage of the bridge, most will not remain walkers as you stated.

Aha the sleeping safe neighborhood of Breckenridge awakes when there is mention of sending Springbrook to Waubonsie! Oh isn't WVHS good enough? Oh, your bus ride would get 10 minutes longer? Isn't that the TG concern, except for them it means actually getting on the bus and going 20 minutes extra? Doesn't matter if you are 2 miles further to WVHS when you are less close to NVHS and have to be bussed regardless. Hate to repeat myself but "you missed the point". You are already loaded on the bus and can drive down 75th or 87th on your way to WVHS just like your neighbor Owen residents which is fine with them.

To 204 Parent: For your information. Tallgrass is ALL bussed today because walking across RT59 is "not safe". So saying that Tallgrass is mostly bussed is un-informed, all are bussed that want to be. But guess what? with the bridge the route becomes 100% safe, so that condition changes effective 7/2008 (read the papers) and they become walkers at a percentage large than Welch.

To Missed A Point: What basis do you have to say that "most TG will have to be bussed in the future?" Have you done the study? Well I see that someone did (check out the TH HOA website) and "more than most" are within 1.5 miles of NVHS.

Oh Margie,
People in Stonebridge have lived yards away from that land for years, way before you were in the area and guess what, no issues. What a simplistic mind.

The new school should NOT BE BUILT ON RADIOACTIVE LAND THAT WAS DISCUSSED TO YEARS AGO AND REJECTED. The new school should be where the new growth is, PERIOD!
The best way to determine where you go to school is-- DRAW A CIRCLE AROUND THE SCHOOL, THAT'S WHERE YOU GO!


When school districts grow as district 204 has grown, homeowners have to expect there to be change and they voted for change. Our youngest child was moved from Clow to Springbrook during elementary, her class was split during the middle school years when Still was opened and her neighborhood friends weent to Neuqua while she was bused to Waubonsie because she was one year older. The district has done a good job of dividing schools up to balance bus riding time and the "no child left behind"issue that has to be addressed. If you are not happy don't vote yes for new schools!

It is really sad to read all the comments from people bashing the TG/Fry Community. You may not agree with our opinions, but we have every right to be upset with the proposal the SB has put forth. If you think the distance to WVHS is not a big deal, I urge you to come and drive it--perhaps you will be lucky and not have to wait for a train to pass, but it is still farther. Try it from the north and south end of the neighborhhood. Then drive to NVHS. See how long it takes you. Think of making that trip 2, 3, or even 4 times a day depending on schedules. Even without bus stops, there's a big difference. Which would you prefer? Then, on top of that, consider that the SB apparently didn't do their homework regarding the bridge when they claimed that they did. What other false information are they putting forward? It is outrageous that they are unable to be unbiased. The were elected to be objective, but apparently, they don't understand that. There are a lot of us in this community who are unhappy with what they proposed--not just TG residents. Maybe the SB should reconsider their seeming desire to rush this plan through so quickly.

To: Anonymous

TG HOA alternative boundary proposal can be found here:


to nosuchthingasneutral:

"Article 29 of the Illinois School Code (105 ILCS 5/29-3), states that the (1.5 mile walking) distance shall be measured from the exit of the residence to the point where pupils are normally unloaded at the school attended by determining the shortest distance on normally traveled roads or streets." not by using as-the-crow-flies measurements to the nearest edge of the school property as indicated on the TG HOA proposal.

TG are bused today. And most will have the right to be bused in the future - bridge or no bridge. so it really is not a question of bussing one vs two neighborhoods. most of both will have the right to demand to be bused in all circumstances.

Not in TG,

You are wrong. The Brookdale residents were upset the last go around because of the things posted above. At the time, the subdivisions NOW being moved were telling Brookdale "change is good...you need to stay at WV because you have such a good PTA...". They just didn't see the big issue with one subdivision being split off on their own (not an even split like most of the new ones). Now that it's impacting them, they sure do see the big issue!!!!!

Folks in WE and TG need to read the map! The reality of this situation is both WE and TG are significantly closer to WV than Breckenridge is to WV. To get to WV we would need to travel past NV 1.5 miles away, TG and WE subdivisions, and finally arrive at WV more than 9 miles from my home in Breckenridge. Gregory is one of the closest middle schools to NV.

I support the board actually looking at the map...I think the show 'Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader' has a major recruiting ground in WE and TG!

To nosuchthingasneutral

Keep in mind, if I knew of a reasonable alternative, I would definitely suupport Fry going to NV, because I have good friends and family there and would like for our kids to attend HS together. That said. . .

Even with the pedestrian bridge, most/all of Fry would be bused to NV. Ashbury is about 1/2 mile closer than TG and they are bused. A trade of Fry for Springbrook does not eliminate the need for buses from TG.

I've looked at the proposed map numerous times trying to convince myself that Springbrook should go to WV and just can't see how that is better for the district.

To "A Brookdale Parent". It wasn't that long ago that Brookdale was viewed by many the same way Tall Grass is being viewed Today (by some, not me). Brookdale as a group was very vocal against the previous boundaries and I felt sincere empathy for you up until someone from your homeowners association proclaimed that they were "tired of paying for South Naperville People". Now that you have a new school I haven't seen you so vocal, other than continuing to take pot shots at South Naperville. And just maybe your subdivision continues to be desirable because the rest of Naperville is thriving as well - we have helped pull your home values up with ours.

I truly feel for the Tall Grass and White Eagle residents - I believe that any neighborhood facing this change would feel frustrated and want to fight for their neighborhood. I support you as a group (and I believe many others do too), but unfortunately have no magic solution to help you.

The North / South, Big House / Little House, New House / Old House arguments are growing old. Perhaps Naperville is desirable because it has such a diverse mixture? We seem to focus on the million dollar homes, but a single family home here is still affordable in a $350K range which a number of subdivisions have.

As much as I have no answers, I do know that I want my elementary kids to have separate rooms for music, art, P.E. and Lunch. I also want the same for Junior High and High School - not to mention that I don't want my kids to be 1 of over 5000 students without the new high school.

I still support the need for the new high school, and while I support the new boundaries I want all those affected to know again that many of us (I dare say a majority of us) support your efforts. Again - we just don't have any magic solutions.

Regarding swapping Springbrook for TG. Not all of TG are walkers. A lot of TG children are already bussed to Neuqua.
Swapping Springbrook with TG would give Springbrook a much longer commute to WVHS

Mike: The SB looked at that before we went to a referendum 2 years ago. Were you involved then? You mentioned using all that extra money to reduce class size. How would you do that if you crammed all those kids into existing space. You need more classrooms to lower class size! Are you kidding me, turn Wheatland into a project arrow campus! I can't imagine what it would cost to renovate such an old building to offer what Scullen does currently.

To: You Missed a Point

The TG HOA is not involved in alternative boundary proposal.


Have you submitted your proposal to any of the school board members? If those figures are correct, it certainly seems like a viable solution, and one the school board should consider. Thanks for sharing it.

Missed a Point: regarding your Fry vs. Springbrook
But Fry is closer to NVHS than Springbrook (and who has to be bussed regardless.) So why bus both neighborhoods when you can bus just one?

WE and TG are not teaming up for whoever mentioned that. For the most part, WE seems okay with the proposal.

To a parent in brookdale:

To clear something up. Everything was not fine with the Brookdale residents under the old boundary proposal (BB site) when you had a split middle school and had to travel farther than BB to Waubonsie. You complained and protested heavily at the Board/Public meetings last year. You wore orange shirts. Residents stomped out of the last meeting and cursed at the Board member living in the Brookdale neighborhood who voted for it. The only reason you accepted it in the end was 'cause you had to and knew it may change anyway.

Wow now that that same thing is happening to TG - split middle school with only them going to a different HS and having to bus/drive thyree to four times further than current to a different high school. But it's not okay for them to be upset and not want the new plan. It's not okay for them to protest.

Of course Brookdale is all happy now. They got what was best for themselves. And suddenly it's all good even though the proposed site is unsafe and the travel times were increased on average per student and alternatives to wasting $150M have not been fully explored, and re-evaluated due to wrong growth projections.

Look at the alternative boundary proposal from the TG HOA. The most significant difference from the SB proposal is that it swaps Springbrook for Fry in reassignment to WVHS.

So even though Springbrook is further from WVHS than is Fry, that is the solution TG favors.

Of course everybody wants what is best for their family and will fight for it. But some temper their own self-interest with thoughts of what is good for the community as a whole.

So if the people in TG want to fight to stay in NVHS at the expense of an even worse outcome (in terms of travel time) for Springbrook, then go ahead. But dont complain when people call you out for being selfish.

"Naperville schools for people who live in Naperville. What a novel idea."
WHOEVER POSTED THAT NEEDS TO GET A CLUE... These aren't NAPERVILLS SCHOOLS. This is Indian Prairie District #204. There's a LOT of schools that aren't in Naperville. WHEATLAND SCHOOL is on the WEST side of Rt. 59... use to be Plainfield there. WVHS was THE only high school in District #204
for a LONNNNNNNNNG time. Is it in Naperville? NO!! Get a grip! What makes Naperville sooooo much better than "Aurora/Bolingbook"? Is it the Mercedes you have in your driveway or is it the credit cards you have in your wallet. And you raise your kids to look at people the same way.


NV is 5 mins drive from my home. This new boundary is to protect individual interests rather than academics. My son will have to travel 33 mins to reach WV.

How soon we forget what was said at the board meetings during the first boundary debates. It was Jeanette Clark that brought up the comment of "the haves and haves not." Not someone from Brookdale, Welch, Gombert or even Tall Grass. Maybe she need to visit the inner city schools and see what "have not" really is. A board member that we are trusting to make decisions for our children speaking like that has definately helped stir the pot. Curt Bradshaw voted against the proposal to have TG and WE go to WVH because he felt the referendum would not pass. Now the proposal has Brookdale staying with Hill and TG and WE going to Waubonsie after the referendum has passed, how convenient.

I would like to commend whoever put together the plan that Mike shared, for being proactive. Instead of just complaining, he came up with a very comprehensive plan! I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with what he has proposed, my point is simply that I'm impressed that someone is TRYING to come up with something to propose to the board as an alternative. If everyone who is upset about the boundaries sat down and tried to come up with a solution, it would be more representative of what Naperville residents are capable of and what we would expect of our own children, rather than what has been shared on this blog by so many.

If you are unhappy with the boundaries, put your energy toward a PLAN, not just mud slinging and crying about the injustice of it all.


You cannot be serious about moving forward on this. We vote based on your initial proposed new HS location and boundaries and then because you can't figure out BB we have to live with YOUR "vote" now?

Do the right thing, take a step back and send your new proposal out to the voters to actually vote on this. Since when does taking a look at blogs, e-mails, etc substitute for a real vote?

How can you look in the mirror and honestly feel like you're doing the right thing without taking this to the community for another vote?

You would have heard from a lot more than 1217 people in District 204 if the majority were unhappy wih the boundary proposal!

I'm going to try to keep this short. Brookdale students have one of the longest drives to a high school in district 204. This would not have changed under the first set of school boundries even though Metea is closer to Brookdale.

Hill Middle School is located right in the middle of Brookdale. Brookdale students were to go to Waubonsie under the first set of boundries. Almost all of the rest of Hills kids would have gone to Metea.

There was a vote at Hill School to name the new high school. Brookdale students were not allowed to vote or attend the naming function.

I atteneded several boundry meetings the first time. Brookdale residents were told by school officials and other parents that it was unfortunate that Brookdale was getting the short end of the stick but that we should look at the big picture.

Waubonsie is a very good school. I have almost no problems with sending my kids there. The biggest issue is that its just so far away.

I believe that the school district has finally made the right decision for Meteas location.

It just so happens that my kids will now have a much shorter ride to school and they will also go to the same school as most of the other kids from Hill School.

I believe that many southsiders feel betrayed. They only voted for the new high school because they thought it would be located near them.

Well you played along with the School Boards marketing campaign now deal with the results.

One last thought. I wish that the Napervilles Sun would consider changing its name to the South Naperville Sun. This new name would better represent the views of the paper.

Moderator Jim: That last remark was uncalled for - we take no sides on this issue. We report - you decide.

Judging by the posts today here and at other blogs, it's going to be a fun school board meeting tonight. The WE/TG brothers in arms rebellion.

I'll be on the couch watching American Idol.

The 3rd high school is a waste of taxpayer money and will never be needed. Any discussions of boundaries is a diversion from the real issue which is the fact that the school is not and never will be needed.

A $150,000,000 high school with annual operating budget of $10,000,000 for 895 students?

For 15 million, we could have built an addition at NVHS and saved a lot of time and money. In addition, eveyone would be happy with the current boundaries which never needed to be changed in the first place.

As usual, district 204 treats taxpayers like a bottomless ATM, they come up with a $150,000,000 solution to a $15,000,000 problem.

According to the Daily Herald this morning, looks like the decision is already made......


There it is, 3 minutes later - a bashing TG blog. For the record, Fry is the TG elementary school. Also attending Fry are Penncross Knolls, and two townhome communities, who also believe they should attend NVHS due to proximity.

TG may be the only ones complaining, along with Brighton Ridge/West Glen (Owen) because they got screwed in the geographic location criteria, too.


If you're going to Metea I hope you learn to spell it correctly. What about Tamarack Fairways and Tamarack West are they also in Aurora? Why don't you go to your local AAA office and pick up a map and take a look at Naperville city limits.

I saw this from someone that thought a 3rd HS is not needed if you move 6th grade to the Elem. Schools. Thoughts???

There is a solution to the Metea Valley High School site and boundary situation that has not been explored. This solution would cut HS bussing costs by 25%. It would reduce traffic to HS by 25%. It could be executed with the disruption of only about 225 students (0.8% of the student body). The disruption would occur next year and the benefit of lower high school enrollment would be felt next year, immediately alleviating the overcrowding at Neuqua Valley High School and getting it back below capacity. No middle school splits would be required. No additional bussing across grade-level train tracks would be required. Lastly, this solution costs a whole lot less than anything the district has proposed.

According to the school capacity summary published by the district, the 21 elementary schools have a capacity of 17,125 students. When the district asked the public for funding of a third HS in the 2006 referendum, it used estimated peak enrollment of 15,175 across those elementary schools. If the projection had been accurate, the district would be operating at 90% of elementary school capacity at its peak. The reality of the 2007 enrollment numbers is that total district elementary enrollment is 13,210, almost 2000 below the district's 2006 projections. Today total district elementary school enrollment is at 77% of capacity. Moreover, elementary school enrollment has been declining in the last two years and is likely to continue to do so. The 2007-2008 kindergarten cohort is 1842, down from the previous year's 1988. The 2007-2008 1st grade cohort is 2210, down fom the previous year's 2358. If present trends continue, elementary capacity utilization will fall to just 70% within 5 years. Note that spare space must be heated and maintained, so empty classrooms are not free, even if they were 'paid for' by developers or previous school bonds. The district has already stopped operating one elementary school, Wheatland, for the 2007-2008 school year.

If IPSD-204 were to keep 6th grade in the elementary schools, 16 of the 21 elementary schools would remain below capacity. The table below shows the schools that would be over capacity, the amount, and an easy solution for each. The solution in every case would involves a minor one-time split along obvious geographic or subdivision lines.

It should be noted that none of the elementary school shifts would impact middle school or high school transition, since kids are moved to a neighboring elementary that feeds the same middle school (and high school) in every case. The shift has no impact on middle school enrollment, other than pushing the peak year back by one year.

The district reports capacity at 7000 for middle schools. For 2007-2008, district middle school enrollment is 7022. However, 2007-2008 is likely to be the peak year for middle school enrollment for the district unless the Peterson and Builta neighborhoods experience a sudden building explosion. Of the districts six middle schools, only two are above capacity. The other four are below capacity presently. Three of those four will never reach capacity according to a summation of the elementary classes that will feed in to them. The fourth, Still, will be at 1206 in the 2010-2011 school year and at 1211 in the 2011-2012 school year. Thereafter it drops below capacity.

The present middle school over-capacity problem is centered in two schools: Gregory and Scullen. Gregory will drop below capacity next year due to declining class sizes and will not return to capacity unless there is an explosion of building in the Builta neighborhood. Scullen is the epicenter of the middle school overcapacity problem. It currently has 1449 enrolled. The district reports capacity of 1200. The district has been able to operate Scullen above its stated capacity with the help of temporary out-buildings. However, that is not necessary. Tangent to Scullen is the Wheatland Elementary school building, which was vacated last year because of excess capacity at Wheatland and Peterson. The Wheatland building could easily be renovated as a 500-seat extension to Scullen or as a separate Project Arrow Middle School servicing interested Crone, Gregory and Scullen students. This would alleviate all present and future middle school pressures.

At Neuqua, the present freshman campus can be converted to a sophomore campus. The main building would then be left for juniors and seniors and for academically advanced sophomores who would be taking AP classes (or at least 2 honors classes) in their sophomore year. Using class size data for the neighborhoods that presently feed Neuqua, it is evident that 2011 is the year of peak enrollment at the school. Using 2011 data, total Neuqua enrollment under this plan would be 3749, with a sophomore class of 1283 and a junior/senior total of 2466. That puts Neuqua at 89% of capacity in the peak year.

At Waubonsie, the freshman campus can continue to operate for all sophomores. Or, for symmetry with Neuqua, academically advanced sophomores can move to the main campus. Using 2011-2012 school year data, the total student enrollment at Waubonsie would be 3120, with 1084 sophomores. If all sophomores stay at WVHS Gold, the main campus would house just 2303 juniors and seniors (77% of capacity). Since reported capacity for WV Gold is 1200, there is no overcapacity problem for as far as the eye can see. Class size of schools feeding Waubonsie peaks with the 2nd grade class (WV class of 2018) at 1141.

This proposal saves the district the $140mn needed to build Metea Valley High School. It would probably cost the district $10-25mn to rebuild or renovate Wheatland in to a middle school and to add 4 classrooms to Longwood Elementary, so call the savings $125mn. What could the district do with the rest of the money? How about a four-landing bridge connecting the corners of the Ogden/Eola intersection? How about retrofitting all elementary schools with A/C? How about using the money to reduce class sizes? How about keeping the special education programs that have been so successful intact? How about reducing property tax rates a little?

Not only does this proposal save the district capital expenditure money, it also saves on maintenance and bussing costs. Replacing a 9th-grade year at a distant high school with a 6th-grade year at a nearby elementary school, which is within walking distance in most cases, should take 25% off of high school bussing costs. The third high school does not need to be maintained and some of the excess capacity at elementary schools is not maintained needlessly. This reduction in costs makes it much less likely that the district would ever have to ask for another referendum or tax hike to fund operations in the event of a generalized decline in property values or other unforeseeable budget dilemma.

Rolling the grades of advancement back by one year does not mean that the district has to shift from a "middle school model" of instruction to a "Jr high model." Students and faculty at the middle school level can be organized in to teams as they are now. Students in 6th grade can receive subject-specific instruction in math, science, reading and music at the elementary school sites from the same 6th grade team instructors that the district now employs. Those team instructors can easily commute to the various elementary school sites that feed each middle school.

Just a personal observation, but it you look at all the feedback since the proposed boundaries were announced, almost everyone throughout the district agrees that Owen got screwed. Everyone is rallying behind them. Hopefully the SB will fix that tonight.

But the only people that seem to be complaining from Fry are the TG people themselves. That is why they are being called out and will have to live with their tarnished reputation for years to come. They don't seem to understand how their behavior in this process will negatively impact their property values. Who will ever want to live there?

For the record,I do not live in TG and my kids will attend their same school after the boundary change.

After reading this entire blog and a few others like it, I've noticed something. Isn't it strange that about every fifth blog or so, is someone bashing TG for being elitist when actually there has been about one comment made to that end in this whole blog? Where are you getting your info, from telemarketer phone surveys of TG? People are just making stuff up now about TG. Plain and simple,TG wants to go their current and closest school (less than 1.5 miles too - walking aside, makes a short car/bus ride, doesn't it?. They don't care who attends there with them.

I think people who will have their own situation improved by the boundary chnages are the ones that are starting false rumors about TG's attitude so that they have someone to blame when the whole thing falls apart for other reasons. Also every tenth blog is justifying how great WVHS is. I think most know that already. Give it a rest. Both current schools are great and every student and former loves their school and will attest to that. The third will be great too, if it wasn't located in "Batavia".

To the person who has their Naperville city limits wrong (i.e "st of 59"), I think I heard everything south of 75th isn't Naperville either.

To Bill Hartman Re: The site location defies all logic, but the Superintendent lives in Stonebridge. Get it?

As far as the Sun's "unscientific" poll goes....(The Sun's Web site indicated that respondents unhappy with the proposed boundaries outnumbered those satisfied with the recommendation by a 3-1 margin). Isn't it human nature to speak up when you're not happy about something vs. saying you agree with a decision? I don't think most people are against the changes. I think just the loudmouths are the ones speaking up and making such a stink. Change is good.

Please remember that most in WE are NOT upset about attending WVHS.

They ARE upset about how this the process began with certain assurances and promises which have been completely altered AND the fact that the foundation for success for WVHS under the current boundary proposal is being lost.

WE is taking the position that adjustments need to be made to the current boundary proposal to reduce the number of underperforming ES's from WVHS and more equitably distribute them to both MV and NV where geographically feasible. .

Afterall, it all boils down to scores. When someone moves to this area they will comment to their realtor, "Oh , there are 3 high schools in district 204?? hmm, what are their scores?" That is how decisions will be made and how property values will be determined .

I am afraid the paper makes the incorrect inference that WE is upset about simply the move to WVHS and that is NOT the case.

The board has admitted to and conceded that there is a negative perception of WVHS which needs to be addressed. The negative perception comes from WV being a lower performing school (score wise) as compared to NVHS. The board has an opportunity tonight to change that perception and I certainly hope they do. The only way to do that is to more evenly balance the 4 lowest performing ES schools in the district and NOT have 3 of them at one high school.

I sure hope they take legitimate community feedback tonight.

Let's just all remember that a 3rd high school is necessary and someone is going to have to be bused or split to get there and to therefore even out the numbers at Neuqua and Waubonsie. I don't think kids splitting from their middle school to go to a different high school is that earth shattering. We are very fortunate to have excellent schools in Dist 204. Parents need to get a grip and stop worrying about these petty issues. Children are resilent, they will handle the changes fine as long as the parents keep things in perspective. The board had to make changes. I agree with the boundaries!!

We used to live in 204 and moved to 203 less than 3 years ago. My oldest started 8th grade here, my daughter started 6th grade, one started 1st garde and the last was in preschool. Changing schools was hands down, the BEST thing we ever did for our kids. Yeah, they were nervous and scared. But they were also excited to be able to re-invent themselves and be who they really wanted to be, not the role they had been type cast into by the kids they had gone to school with since kindergarten. Change can be a very good thing.

Today, my son is a 10th grader at NNHS and my daughter is an 8th grader at JJHS and they have friends from Naperville, Aurora, Lisle, WVHS, NVHS, NNHS, NCHS, JJHS, Granger, Hill and all points in between. Kids today don't spend much time 'talking' at school - they stay connected by IMing, MySpace, Facebook, text messaging, etc. The world is at their fingertips and they know how to make friends and keep friends. They run into kids they know all over the place - sporting events, religious ed., music competitions, etc. They have friends that are all ethnicities, financial backgrounds, family situations and religious affiliations. That's a great thing for them in this world that just keeps getting smaller an smaller with the help of cell phones and computers.

To Gina 6:53am - Just because someone is unhappy with the boundaries, does not make them snobs. To reiterate what others have said, Owen, Watts and Cowlishaw families WANT to go to Waubonsie. What we don't want is an hour and a half round trip commute picking up our kids from before and after school activities at the Matea site - nor do we want our kids being picked up for school at 6:15am.

Clearly, the new school site is wrong. Too many neighborhoods will have their commutes increased. If the school location was appropriate, there would be a net decrease in commute.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm all too familiar with the power of ZIP codes around here. (But might I remind you that O'Hare has a Chicago ZIP code, and it's located nowhere near actual Chicago. Things are not always what they seem, or make the most sense, out here ...)

For the sake of geo-political argument, let us refer to TGers and WEers as "Ethnic Aurorans," because if Illinois drew straight, sensible, concrete, municiple, county, and school board boundaries, everything west of Route 59 would officially be Aurora. But with the Chicago Way being the Chicago Way, everything out here is a result of a handshake deal or a land-grab. And Tall Grass and White Eagle are in Naperville proper by the skin of their bleached teeth.

In the case of District 204, where the three high schools will be tiled directly upon each other from north to south, the boundaries must be built from north to south, not east to west. And it's a no-brainer that those of you living on land that could/should easily fall into the municipal boundary of Aurora should attend high schools in ... Aurora.

Yet your solution is to fling children from way over in Naperville up into Aurora, giving them even longer commuting times than you, because you hate the thought of your children attending WVHS. Never mind the fact that the proposed boundaries make the most sense to the school board's bean-counters and their mission of a balanced district.

Look at a map. Take a deep breath. It's all going to work out. Our blessed children will be more than fine. But if you throw a massive hissy-fit at tonight's meeting, don't be alarmed by the stinging public perceptions about you the morning after.

(Besides, we'll all be doing this in 10 more years for a FOURTH Indian Prairie high school when Naperville's population hits 160,000 as planned.)

The topic we're dealing with now is the boundaries, and frankly this is not the time that your voices should be loudest. If you're going to complain and cry about something that doesn't make sense, I think you're a day late and about 20 million dollars short.

Where were all you mighty Tall Grass activists when the district railroaded everyone with this Eola Road High School scenario? How could it be legally possible that we specifically voted for one thing last year but ended up with a completely different result? Did any of you vote about THIS in a silly little Naperville Sun poll? (Did the newspaper's reporter ever think to write about this?) Did any of you loudly point out that once BB went down the tubes, so did a true public endorsement of Matea Valley High school?

Of course not. You didn't say a word. Because under the orginal plan and agreed-upon boundaries, TG and WE would be going to WVHS.

By complaining now with the boundaries on the table, you're being oportunistic and sneaky and acting like manipulative 9-year-olds. And frankly, you should be ashamed of what you're teaching your children.

Waubonsie Valley is an excellent school.We have a son who currently attends there. The folks in Brighton Ridge/West Glen have gladly sent their children there. Even though we all live much closer to Neuqua Valley. No complaints. No problem. Now we are being told to send our children to the outer Northern limits, 9 MILES AWAY.( Neuqua, 3.7 miles away Waubonsie Valley 5.7 miles away) This is unsafe,illogical and most certainly unneccesary. School board-do your homework or let someone else do the job.


I think you have some unresolved issues to work on.

I wonder if the referendum would pass NOW with all the controversity that has gone on since the vote and now with the new redistricting maps. We voted on one proposal, now it is something entirely different.


Is there a dangerous enviornmental problem with the new Metea site? One of the above comments indicated there was. Is remediation ongoing, will there be remediation, has an enviornmental impact study been completed. What dangerous chemicals may be in the ground? Any info would certainly be appreciated by the community.


Looks like Mayor Pradel has a lot of damage control to do. This is what we get when we have a community filled with "entitlement" thinking.

The only thing the district is "entitled" to give us is what they are already doing. An excellent eductaion, transportation if needed and not to mention an abundance of extracurricular activities.

Lets let the admin. get back to their jobs of what's really important here....educating our kids.

I suspect at the next eleciton we will have plenty of people running for office because with all the complaining going on it looks like we have plenty of citizens who are qualified and willing to give up their family time for the whole community. I expect to see plenty of names of the ballots.

Good luck Mayor Pradel. Looks like you'll be lining the pockets of all those wonderful magazines to make sure your town stays at the top because it's own citizen brought it down.

I am confused. While I agree it is difficult for many to embrace change, I would be willing to give it a try. If your kids are remamining at NVHS, they will be competing with 4000 students for all activities and academic awards. Personally, I would prefer a school with fewer students. Both WVHS and MVHS are slated to have only 2600 students. I like those odds a little better for my kids who may want to be on a team. I wish my kids were going to one of the smaller schools.

Also, I don't agree with the Sun running the story that states most people are unhappy with boundries. "Most people" were not aware of such a poll. "Most people" who knew about the poll were the ones who are most upset and following the blogs. The people who are satisfied are probably not reading this.

Speaking in round numbers:

Take the $150 million dollars for the new school and offer $5,000 a year vouchers to anyone that wants to send the kid to a private high school for four years. Allow the first 1200 to opt out of the public schools.

Invest the $150 million building fund at a modest 6% and the fund will act as a perpetual endowment.

No need for a third high school or the ongoing cost of supporting the teachers union or administrators needed to run the place.

Everyone should take a step back and re-evaluate the success or lack there of in the atheistic-socialist public school systems.

Let people vote with their feet.

All of this talk comes down to racism and classism. People of LALA Land get a life and stop whining. If you don't like it move. But have fun trying to sell that 750,00 home.

Is there an enviornmental problem with the new site? Are there dangerous contaminates on the site. Is remediation for contaminants ongoing? Has an impact study been completed? One of the people who submitted a comment indicated there was some problems. Does anyone know? Thanks

To Fletcha

First get your facts straight. It is the Indian Prairie School District 204, NOT NAPERVILLE SCHOOL DISTRICT 204. The school district actually started in Aurora!!!

You sound just as bad as the TG's!!!

I am very upset that my children will have to ride a long bus ride (up Rt 59 and over railroads) to go to Metea. We live near 75th & Book, and I had been looking forward to my kids walking or riding their bikes to the new school. I am very upset the district couldn't reach a compromise with the Branch-Brodie plan. From what I'm reading, more parents would have been happy with the scaled-down Metea (with no football stadium or pool) because it was more centrally located in 204. I can't believe our district can't make a more GREEN decision about this new school.

So when your children grow up and get a job, say they get transferred to a different location or laid off and have to face change and leaving their "friends"...are you going to call their boss and cry about it??? Please! Let them experience change now and learn how to handle meeting new people. How are our children ever going to learn to handle any type of change if they don't learn while they are young?

My daughter attended three elementary schools and two middle schools. Only one change was due to us moving; the others were due to boundary issues. What was the impact on her? She learned about being resilient, learned to open herself up to new experiences, learned to make friends easily, and learned what true friends are. She has been at one high school (WV) for all four years, but her groups of friends have changed more than they did during all of the changes when she was younger. She has some friends who she knew back at her first elementary school and some who she has met since then. Some friends who were very close to her at one time, are not now and vice versa. Some that she was friends with when she was younger are now making behavior choices that she does not condone, so she no longer hangs out with them.

I think the main reason that she has dealt with all of the changes so well is that we approached each school change as a sense of opportunity and adventure. While we were not always happy with the changes being made, we never let her know that. We knew they were inevitable and faced them head on, talking about the new people she would meet, the opportunities to learn from a different set of teachers.

Everyone can continue to complain, but the board has made changes that need to be made. Anyone who voted for the new high school because of the boundaries should have known that nothing was set in stone. You should have voted yes or no on the referendum based on you belief as to whether a third high school was needed or not, regardless of the boundaries. The land deal feel through and they had to look elsewhere, necessitating a change in boundaries. There was nothing that stated that passing the referendum would guarantee the boundaries that were initially set up. Deal with it and make it into an adventure with your kids. Your kids will pick up on your attitude, make it into a positive experience instead of a negative one.


See my other post for what we should really be talking about here today. You are playing into the hands of the SB - being distracted.

I think the me, WE folks, TG people, and many other neighborhood individuals are frustrated with the SB's wasteful mismanagement of the problems, and some individuals - that do not represent the thousands of people who live in those neighborhoods - are lashing out in any way they can. Any time we categorize people as a group we are stereotyping and being a bit prejudice.

The problem is that proximity to good schools is the cornerstone of a good situation re schools - parents are more involved, there is better spirit, less stress, less safety risk (than riding on buses for longer periods). If WV was the same distance away, then those TG people would probably gladly attend.

WVHS is one of the top schools in the area - there is NO academic issue. Just compare WV to other districts in the area. You'll be shocked how low the other districts' high schools perform. So if there is no academic problem, why does our SB go through this ludicrous exercise of busing students all around the district, risking safety, to fix a problem that does not exist? You have to question the SB's wisdom here.

Finally, TG is 100% in the city of Naperville and about half WE is in the city of Naperville.

TG is in Naperville not Aurora. It is a 60564 zip code. Some of WE is in Naperville and some is Aurora. Get your facts straight.

Let's have D203 amend Neuqua Valley into their district. Homes with an actual NAPERVILLE address and not just part of the Naperville postal system should only attend Naperville schools. Let's split off from D204 and have the people in other towns bicker about the new high school and boundaries leaving Naperville content with Naper North, Central and Neuqua Valley--all the best in the area. D203 is talking expansion anyway. Let's include NV in the expansion. That way, those who actually live in Naperville can continually living in in our so-called bubble that is the envy of other less fortunate bubbles! Naperville rules.

Why is the Naperville Sun inciting community unrest? Your job is to report facts, not feelings. My family will split between Meatea and Waubonsie and I am thrilled and grateful to have the opportunity for high quality public education for my children. I thank the district administration and board members for their commitment in the face of the media driven criticism. If families want schools of their choice, they must pay for private education. Please count me as a positive vote.

Note from Host:

Sometimes feelings are part of the story. We can't help it if some people are unhappy about the boundaries. Our intent is not to "incite community unrest," but rather to gauge reaction of parents to the boundaries proposal. If everyone was happy, our stories would say that.

I am not affected by the boundary changes and my kids will continue to go to NVHS. I have driven out to the new high school location and I encorage everyone to do so. It does not make sense! It is as far North as you can go in the district. What and why are we doing this d204? You are making a horrible misstake because of the location and I really feel sorry for those people who bought homes with the intent on going to NVHS or WVHS.

My children are products of District 204. I, personally am a product of #203. The world won't fall apart because your children got split from their middle school and grade school friends. When you get into high school your interests change as do your friends. A lot, even most, of the kids you went to school with in the younger grades become distant. Things change. People has to learn to accept that. You can't tell me that you didn't know the district was growing and that there would be changes. My oldest daughter started at Indian Prairie, went to Georgetown, on to McCarty and then to Gregory. She would have went ot Granger, but it wasn't open yet. So, yes she was bused across town. She did end up at WVHS for her last four years but all her 'childhood' friends didn't go with. A lot of the area people, Aurora and Naperville, move on a regular basis..changing schools once every so many years to a completely different area or state. But try to move someone in a district to a new school and all heck breaks loose. I wasn't happy when my kids were being bused all over the place, but we dealt with it knowing it was what had to be done for the better value of education. District #204 grew too fsst. What's happening now doesn't even put a dent in what was going on in the 80's. Be happy your children have a good school and the administration is working to provide the best solution to their education. In a district this size there is no way to make everyone happy. Once things are in place and everyone gets to where they are going, you'll find things will work out. The kids don't seem to care near as much as the the adults. They are way more accepting of the change. Life is an adventure, accept new things and move on. If you honestly find that it's not working out, deal with it then but give it a chance...an honest chance!

I certainly don't think a silly poll by the Naperville Sun, which most people didn't know about, represents the thoughts on the distict boundaries. Let's face it ...someone isn't going to be happy no matter how the boundaries are layed out. With the student population falling in Naperville, possibly we should be looking at a temporary solution to the current overcrowding rather than an overpriced school which will turn into a senior center in years to come.

Note from host:
We don't think our poll was silly. Unscientific, yes. But not silly.

I attended a middle school that split back in the late 70's. You know what - we all survived. I live in 203 and my children's middle school splits. It is what it is - get over it and move on. There are more important things going on in the world than you being upset because little Johnny will have to go to WVHS. This issue has NOTHING to do with the split and everything to do with the snobs who can't get their noses out of their butts. There is NOTHING wrong with WVHS. Shame on all of you complainers for being so snooty. If you don't like it - then move. GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Why is Bolingbrook even a part of 204? Maybe all those new developments should go to the new Plainfield high school which is actually closer to them then NV. That would remove some of the overcrowding at NV.

Note from host:

Here's a little lesson about Illinois layers of government: school district boundaries don't necessarily match municipal boundaries. A large chunk of the Plainfield School District is in the city of Joliet. And it's extremely complicated to try to amend boundaries. Only a tiny piece of Bolingbrook is in 204. Removing it from 204 would have a negligible impact.

I know that everytime Tall Grass or White Eagle start complaining, that means Springbrook gets put on the table for getting moved out of NV. And so the neighborhood battles begin all over again.

This new site is just wrong. We need to put the new school farther south where the kids are. The school board is too worried about being ready for 2009 instead of looking at the long term best interest of its students and parents who will spend way too much family time in the car.

Welcome to Naperville, a gleaming exurb of nearly 150,000 people, spanning over two counties and is the home to a school district with two high schools that also serves portions of two neighboring towns. Meanwhile, many Naperville children attend one of soon-to-be three high schools in a school district based in another neighboring town. Confused?

It's one of the "highest-rated" places in the country to raise children even though most parents seem to be teaching their kids to be whining, sniveling, greedy, over-privileged little rock stars. Plus, there is little hint of any ethnic diversity to speak of. Ah, not so confusing after all ...

But if I were God and running a Naperville school district (and yes I'm aware that many of you looney tooners would prefer that God actually COULD run school boards), I'd send Lisle students back to Lisle, Bolingbrook students back to Bolingbrook. I'd send back those Aurorans who pretend to live in Naperville (that's you Tall Grass and White Eagle) back to Aurora. (If you're west of Route 59, you're NOT in Naperville. Sorry.) I'd also let in those squeezed-out residents currently attending Plainfield schools. Naperville schools for people who live in Naperville. What a novel idea.

But there's no chance that anyone is ever going to fix the meandering boundaries that we all have to live with today. (How in the WORLD does a municipality span TWO counties?!?!?)

Naperville is a wonderful place to live. But even Paradise has its troubles: "How dare they make me send my child to school with children of people I look down upon?" Sigh.

As a result of a) my family moving a lot, and b) rezoned boundaries in a couple towns I lived in: between Kindergarten and 12th grade I attended EIGHT different schools, including one wonderful interstate move in the middle of 7th grade. (And yes, middle schoolers can be quite cruel to the new kid.)

I was the new kid. Almost every friggin' year.

My folks were the mechanics and secretaries of the world. We lived in apartments. My public school experience was a logistical disaster. Yet somehow I ended up well-adjusted, got great grades, was popular, athletic, and attended a better university than most of you, and make as much money as almost all of you.

And now I'm going to have to worry about my children becoming arrogant little jerks because they're going to be influenced by friends who have been coddled, pampered, spoiled, and convinced that compromises are for suckers.

Tall Grassers in particular, if your children are slated to attend WVHS because the elected members of the school board say you should for the betterment of the district, then shut up and do it.

Stop complaining, because I for one CANNOT relate to your whiny little tantrums. Not attending high school with a best buddy from 5th grade? Pouting around your 3,500 square-foot home because you can hear the NVHS football game? Are you joking? Seriously. How does anyone put up with you on a daily basis?

Life's not fair. Grin and bear it. Boo hoo. Tall Grassers are making complete fools of themselves once again. Seriously.

why is my comment posted as being from DR. Y??? It should be from Moe. Moe wrote Posted by: Dr. Y? | February 18, 2008 11:42 PM

Yes, some of us may be going to a school we didn't...

Note from host:

Maureen and all newcomers, the commenter's name appears UNDER the post. It's confusing, I know, with the solid line separating the comment from the commenter, but that's just the way this blog was set up.

Yes, some of us may be going to a school we didn't plan on attending, but I'd rather go to a school with a smaller, more diverse population anyway. And as for those high and mightiers, NV is going to continue to be extremely crowded. And like every other school in America it too will have its host of problems. This boundary proposal does not work in favor of NV anymore than it does for MV or WV.

As for those who think they are too good for WV, I'd love to meet you and have you tell me why you think you are better than anyone else. As for you cantankerous trash talkers, then at least be audacious enough to say these things to our faces, or at least put your name out there so I can pop over and introduce myself to you. What you say behind a blog is not what you would say to your neighbor. If it is then I feel sorry for you. To the back-biters -- you are genuinely gutless! Please know that your depthless comments do not symbolize the majority of my neighbors and friends. Your neighborhood bashing makes you look daft. Sad for you. Sad for your kids. I am appalled by the hate on this web site.

Let's be honest, a 45 minute commutes for any student is ludicrous. However, student scores can be mainstreamed along with mainstreamed travel times if we are truly stuck with the Eola site. And yes, some of us will win, and some of us will not get what we thought we moved here for. And what we moved here for is not for others to judge. The extremely long distance is unjustified for any student and their families. And as a matter of fact, distance to school does effect property value! To whoever compared a two mile commute to a 6 mile commute... it's like comparing platinum to aluminum. Why bother. I moved from a district where my kids lived two miles from school and were bussed for 20 minutes. This commute was trivial because there was one stop light, and no train tracks to contend with. And let me tell you that bus was full. Imagine a full bus with trains, lights and traffic to boot. I challenge the SB members (each one of you) and every person out there who is telling us to "get over ourselves" to put yourself on a bus route, make every stop a bus would make for the entire lenght of time it takes to let kids off the bus or get on, pretend to sit peacefully through train crossings, stop lights and traffic. Do that day after day, and then you can tell us how we should feel. And if crossing gates can be avoided, they should be. This district has an obligation to protect it's children as much as it can. Feel free to google train accidents buses cars children, and see what you find. Train accidents are far from rare. Accidents do happen, even when people are careful, and even when we hire supposed trusted bus drivers (who we later discover are on drugs or drivers who fall asleep at the wheel), then mix it with a train. You might say it's far fetched, but I say better to avoid the crossings gates when possible.

And as for anyone bashing a neighborhood because we bought where our kids would go to school, I'd bet my fanny you did too! I bet when we all looked at houses here or anywhere ALL OF US took a good hard look at where our kids would be going to school, the distance to schools, the scores, etc. We probably moved somewhere because of its reputation, or because of who we knew or what we dreamed of for our families. We looked at buying our homes from many angles, and made some sacrifices along the way so we could be sure we were doing what was best for our kids, and our pocket books. I'm sure we took dozens of things into consideration before we moved. The bottom line is that we all moved someplace with the best intentions for our families. So, shame on you for lecturing us if we are upset about having to travel a long distance to get to school because it compromises family time. We have every right to be upset about this boundary proposal. It's idiotic because it does not meet any of the criteria the board set forth.

Moreover, the school board should give up the Eola site and find a new one. Too late? It's been said the papers have not been signed! What needs to be done to retract this location? If student population is declining and the SB is going to drag 204 students all over tarnation to get to school, then it makes no sense to build a school where the school population is extremely low to start with. I really don't understand the "logic" with this administration. They need to step back and allow all of us to start from scratch, because nothing good seems to be coming from this location at all. The school board has sadly chosen a location which does not BEST serve the district on any level. Every aspect of this third HS has changed since BB and it all needs to be re-reviewed. If it comes back and Eola is the best place and the SB can prove this is so, then we will deal with it. An outside, independent review should really take place at this point though. There are too many personal emotions wrapped up and I don't think anyone is thinking with a clear and unbiased head anymore.

Oh, and as for the suspected radiation issue? I'd like to have that safety factor in writing. If a potentially hazardous situation can be avoided, then the SB has an obligation to do just that. We do not need a school built by 2009. At this point, Eola & 88 is just plain wrong!

See a lot of discussion about 1 neighborhood vs. another. There is a natural instinct to attack those who disagree with you, but "can't we just all get along", and maybe unite against the SB? Remember - pitting neighborhood vs neighborhood worked when the 2006 referendum was passed.

You should know this tactic was encouraged by the consultant hired by the SB with your tax dollars to help pass the 2006 referendum. You see the consultant specialized in getting referendums that had failed once, passed later. Consultant is not to be confused with "transportation consultant" or "demographer".

The play book included pitting neighborhood vs neighborhood to divide and isolate neighborhoods that may not have the votes to defeat a referendum.

TG simply did not have the votes and was too busy working, being transient - in terms of business moves in/out -, spending too much time with kids, trusting the leaders,etc., to fully understand what was going on....and they actually approved the referendum about 3 to 2 (YES to NO I think)..because they thought a new HS was needed, and agreed with the proposed site and boundaries promoted by the SB. TG was the perfect development to isolate.

The playbook also included false surveys where actual results were never shared, but there were plenty of quotes from SB members how "district parents overwhelmingly supported" this or that boundary proposal. So, you are carrying on nicely you poor soles. I did not think this could have such a lasting effect. The Sun echoed the SB as needed.

Oh, then there was the false student growth projections reaching 11,400 high school students after the first results were about a 1000 over that and the SB thought it would not be believed.

Oh yes, wait a minute, what about making the capacity of the existing schools shrink so the district would look like it is bursting at the seems. Well, you poor soles, you bought that too. Hey the SB probably said...this is easy and seered that into memory.

Fast forward to today...So even though the SB and Super have already said the current projection is now 9000ish high schoolers, nobody seems to have a light bulb going on. How could the projections drop by one entire HS worht of students? Hmmmm, well, maybe it was never there people. And maybe 9000 is a sham as well. How do you know?

So recently one of the board members declared he had done his own personal assessment of the emails re the proposed new HS location and found it "71% in favor" and another SB member found it "surprisingly overwhelming".

Another said a Hannan site located in the SW (where the real population center near NVHS is shifting to soon) would have caused much incredible disruption to the district (?), and WVHS would then be "an albatross around everybody's neck" (?)

Oh yes, there's more. They are talented - the admin found millions of dollars and they are describing it as "found money" so let's believe that too.

Now the SB comes out with an edict that the people "have had plenty of time to review the proposal" (1 week) that it's "logical" and it's "geographic"....and you believe it oh poor poor soles.

But hold on...there's more...they have declared a safe bridge "unsafe" so it too must be true.

The Super said "Midwest Generation (the seller of the land) said there were no environmental problems" so there is nothing to worry about (?)

Oh, and the bus routes are fine because that's what our bus company (who makes money from more students on buses) says so (?) Hey these people are all powerful! -- because that still works too. "Leaders, tell us what to do". Let's believe this all "for the children".

Why not instead begin asking some hard questions of your SB and Admin, like:

1. Why are transportation travel time not dropping significantly because we have a third high school "geographically" and "logically" placed? Even our "lesser talented neighborhoods" can figure that one out.

OK...stay with me..the questions get easier not harder...we can do this...

2. If the population center has miraculously moved to the north as DR. D. described in a SB meeting..pointing to the map in the north and saying "this is the center of the student population...but we cannot build a school there because it's a RR yard" (followed with supporting laughs from the attentive audience - something that concerns me as well, but more on that another time)...then why are we having to bus so many more students around the district and need more buses?

...OK just one more question...because I can see from the dialogue above that 4 questions could cause a breakdown...

3. Why are we sending hundreds (one estimate 2000, but I will go easy here) more students across grade level RR tracks that will have 30 more trains a day passing thru, including hundreds more student drivers, and hundreds more parents?

..So why believe anything you are told, unless you are naive beyond imagination? Oooops sorry ...that was another question. I may provide answers later, but only if I have too. If I was the SB or Admin I would just not respond, and do what I want to do.

The SB and Admin are trying to balance academics by grouping elementary schools with low scores and elementary schools with high scores at the high school level. By merging these elementary schools, the high school they are ultimately moved to may show a higher overall score, which looks good for the district. The question is…what happens to the low performing kids? Are they now high performers or are they lost in the system because the overall score for the high school is now at an acceptable level? What is the real purpose of the third high school? Why not put some more resources into those elementary schools with low scores instead of rushing to build a 3rd high school? With enrollment soon to be declining it seems that this 3rd high school is an expensive disguise for those under-performing schools.

People! Focus on the real issues. 1. Do we really need the third HS with enrollment declining? Has the SB seriously investigated alternatives? 2. Nap Dad is right, the SB chose a previously unsuitable location with the least student population when the growth is all in the South. The criteria stated to eliminate the Macom site was weak at best. Putting the school at Macom would eliminate this controversy about all the long bus rides - no community would increase its current bus commute. This SB continues to make hasty, poor decisions and then cannot execute on those decisions...costing us more and more tax dollars. It's time to STOP the emotions and review the relevant facts. BTW, It is not just TG who is upset. Several of my WE neighbors and I are very upset to leave NVHS, leave Scullen, AND enter into a split middle school at Still. It's just not right!

"BTW, not all TG'ers are as ignorant as some of these blogs make us out to be. I apologize for some of my TG neighbors who have posted here thinking they are speaking for the neighborhood. They do not! They are entitled to their opinions, but should not attribute their elitist and, sometimes, racist rants to the rest of the neighborhood."

Posted by: Off To WVHS | February 18, 2008 02:12 PM


Current enrollment in 204's HS is 8182 and they are projecting 9277 for the 2011 class so the additional students is only 1095.

A $150,000,000 high school for 1000 more students? No, not really because administrators project that at least 300 students will attend the COD Frontier campus on a fulltime basis, therefore freeing up 300 seats at the main campuses.

So, taking the 1095 and subtracting the conservative number of 300 FT students attending the COD Frontier Campus and we have a $150,000,000 high school serving an addition 895 students.

For $150,000,000, you could send 895 students to Benet for more than 22 years.

In addition, by investing the conservatively estimated $10,000,000 a year to operate a 3rd HS, the district could have saved over 220,000,000.

Adding in interest to the amount saved over the 22 years and the district would be sitting on almost a half a billion surplus.
Yes, that's right, almost $500,000,000.

In the 23rd year, the district could be earning over $28,000,000 per year in free cash flow.

Now, using the district's plan to build a $150,000,000 high school and gauge you for operating expenses and additional bus service, how many more tax increase referendums do you think the district will push in the next 22 years? How much do you want to bet the next one will be pushed before the paint is even dry at the glorious 3rd high school? Amen.


stop complainin about test scores. if the kid is smart, they can go to gang bang high in detroit and pass. waubonsie, i go there, its fine. neqeua is fine too. stop cryin about the freakin schools.

In response to post from Danny....

Unfortunately, in reality it all boils down to test scores...that is why the school board should attempt to level the academic playing fields via boundary changes pertaining to the opening of a third high school in district 204.

You are right, it (test scores) could change as time goes by and that is fine. But the district now has an opportunity to level the playing field which is obviously not the case now with NV and WV.

When people look to this area to re-locate or rankings are compiled of Illinois State High schools or national ranking are compiled it all comes down to scores. Scores become linked to property values and so on...

In theory , we shouldn't care because our children are receiving the same cirriculum in the same district, but it does matter to perceptions and to rankings .

McCarty and Steck aren't exactly that far north, are not that much further north than Owen, and are in WVHS's backyard. Plus then you mess up the diversity/test score balancing that the SB is trying to create in the North. Good luck Owen on the swap.

to anonymous 3:50 pm

"The only true mistake with the boundaries is the real injustice to Owen. I hope they correct this by moving the northern areas of Steck and McCarty to MV and putting Owen back at WV."

That sounds a little selfish to me. Honestly, the only injustice in the boundaries was to Owen?

Have you looked at how they've chopped up Peterson.

Seems kinda nervy for you to point a finger at another neighborhood with such a selfish perspective.

You might want to start worrying about the reputation of your own community as you seem to only have Owen's best interest in mind.

People in glass houses... shouldn't throw stones...

Not just Owen, but Watts as well. SB needs to get over calling Steck and McC "walking schools" - they aren't. The kids that are bussed now would just go a bit farther to the north, instead of south. That would save Watts and Owen from the worst commutes in the district.

The only true mistake with the boundaries is the real injustice to Owen. I hope they correct this by moving the northern areas of Steck and McCarty to MV and putting Owen back at WV.

Other areas complaining are just spitting in the wind. No solution is going to be perfect, and making changes now to make one community happy is just going to disrupt another.

Regardless of the outcome, TG is in the process of permanently ruining their reputation. This will negatively affect their pocketbooks more than they seem to understand. Definately more than what HS their community feeds into.

good points Big Picture as you recognize that the SchoolBoard, in the interest of balancing economic diversity, has created a boundary situation that fails to optimize the criteria that matters most to the people - geographic location. Since all 3 schools are/will be great and provide the same opportunities, than why wouldn't the SB pick the solution that would minimize travel distance and optimize capacity, and stop "balancing the schools" for anything (i.e test scores, economics, etc). There's a reason Owen is going North and Fry is going West and Gombert is going East. And it wasn't to balance capacity since there are other plans that do that without those moves.

Why do the schools need to be academically balanced?

What happens the next year? Do you address this issue year after year and move schools each year to keep them balanced?

I just do not understand why this needs to be done?

It is very depressing to read the majority of these posts that are all about a 30 minute commute to a TOP RATED school district in the COUNTRY, or that your child won't get to go to school with their friend. You live in a great community and attend the best schools in the state: whether it be NV, WV, or MV. Please take a look at the big picture and be glad you do not live in a community where there are no buses, public schools do not have textbooks, or worse yet, there are no public schools. Your children's attitudes will be a direct reflection of your own... so change your attitude! Don't most of us commute 30+ minutes to work everyday? This is reality. Be glad they are not changing the BOUNDARIES and your children will not be up-rooted to Bolingbrook or Plainfield or Aurora schools. Same district, same curriculum. Get over the pettiness of it all and the stigma of your sub-division name or school name.

To Nap Dad on Feb 16 (9:07a), your post hit it on the head. I can't believe we have allowed the 204 SB to screw this process up to the degree they already have. Once again, they have managed to pit neighborhood against neighborhood. Now no one is happy and the process is, once again, out of control. At some point the SB has to be held accountable for the millions of dollars on our money they have wasted on this crazy process. I guess it is our own fault to reelect these fools.
My take is there will be new environmental problems with the new MVHS site that will cost more $$$ to remediate. Anyway, thanks to Nap Dad for the excellent insight. Now let's stop the trains...!
BTW, not all TG'ers are as ignorant as some of these blogs make us out to be. I apologize for some of my TG neighbors who have posted here thinking they are speaking for the neighborhood. They do not! They are entitled to their opinions, but should not attribute their elitist and, sometimes, racist rants to the rest of the neighborhood.

High Meadow Mom...
It seems the only way the school board can fairly implement their desire to academically balance the schools will be to move some of the lower performing schools into Neuqua and move even more existing NV kids to WV. Are you prepared to move? Its easy to throw stones when you feel "geographically set". If the SB does not want to use geography to set boundaries then other current NV must move in order for the final plan to be passed. Maybe you'll volunteer to go first?

Please look at the proposed boundaries and stick to the issues. Please stop calling out specific subdivisions and promoting any dissention whatsoever by those in south Naperville as them making it a class issue. It has certainly become one, but think about why... the Board has decided it's wise to choose "maximizing" academic strengh among the schools as one of its criteria. They have not even succeeded in that if you look at the map and the division of Title I (lower academically performing schools) among the three high schools. To them, "maximizing" academic strength apparently means putting more of the so-called rich, spoiled children of people who "need to get over themselves" with the children of lower academically performing schools, while concurrently dispersing the students of some of the lower performing schools as best they can. Look at Gombert - right across the street from the new middle school, yet bussed to Still. Then, divided among Waubonsee and Metea. Look at Longwood - much closer to Brookdale, but being bussed to Granger. What else have you heard the Board say or propose to address the lower test scores? Maybe all day kindergarten is a start, but how does that help the students in higher grades today? So, all of the anger and disdain that is being directed at the people in south Naperville, specifically Tall Grass and White Eagle, who want nothing more than to go to an existing school that they drive by every day, or a new school on one of the proposed (but rejected) south side sites, should be redirected at the Board - not only for trying to pit neighborhood against neighborhood, but for failing to meet their own criteria and for mismanaging important decisions that are consequently attached to millions of EVERYONE's tax dollars.

As an ex-High Meadower and an ex-TGer, I have to say that both neighborhoods were filled with nice people with a large range of economic backgrounds and situations. Don't let the words of a few taint your view of thousands.

Everyone is concerned for their own personal interest and emotions are maybe bringing out the worst, But those who shun the negativity shared by some are probably experiencing an improvement themselves(ex. Stonebridge) or staying the same under the new boundaries (ex. high meadow mom). I am sure if River Run was slated to be shipped 8 miles over to WVHS, they would be the next "TG" whining group. Even if you don't have kids, you're going to be concerned about the decisions being made because you're probably going to sell your house to family coming in with kids who has choices to which house and neighborhood they want.

Back to the blog subject -There are boundary options that meet all criteria and do not split middle schools, but Board has refused to allow them in order to economically mix the schools, which maybe a fine idea in itself. But it is a low priority in the minds of most here in that they just want to go to their closest schools regardless of test scores, economics, and building condition.

Just because I don't live in TG doesn't mean I am not educated and don't have what you have. So if anybody needs to get overthemselves it's TG.

You brag how much you pay in taxes well guess what we all do. Some of us are still paying a hell of lot more than TG and we don't have kids in school anymore. We've been around long enough that we've had to pay for the schools on the south end of town including Neuqua and now we have to pay for a 3rd.

That's fine with me because I live in a very large SD that was developing faster than we could keep up with and still is (much slower these days). It's what one is to expect when you live in this area. If you dont' like it then you should of considered much older communities that are just as nice as Napv. This is not the only place on earth. You all fell hook line and sinker to the ratings in all those silly magazines. Guess what, when a community has an over abundance of cash you can get your name on any list to sell the community. That's exactly what Napv. did.

TG: I hadn't realized that those living in TG or WE had a corner on "education and success". I'll have to tell my friends living in the Hamptons that despite what they may think...they're nothing because they don't live in Naperville, IL. And, more specifically, in TG or WE. C'mon now.

Note from moderator Jim: I've spent a lot if time in the Hamptons. It's beautiful there.

TG, I don't think anyone is jealous of TG and WE. I think most others feel pity for you. Pity that you were foolish enough to buy homes in a changing school district and now many of you are unhappy about the new school zones but face it, you're going to be stuck with it. You're the ones who need to get over it, accept the situation and start moving on with your lives.

Are you all really so jealous of the people in Tall Grass and White Eagle because of the education and success that they have worked so hard to achieve that you can do nothing but sit around and bad mouth them personally? I think it's time to grow up. The fact of the matter is how the boundaries were constructed and that they were not done correctly on so many levels...for so many subdivisions. Get over your poor me attitude and focus on the situation.

WOW! Lots of lively conversation going on here.

I grew up in Pennsylvania and had to ride a bus to elementary, middle school and high school. Walking wasn't an option since all of the schools were miles away from our neighborhood. I managed to participate in extracurricular activities even though I couldn't walk home. Why do kids need to walk home to participate in extracurricular activities? Couldn't carpooling work? I also noticed that WVHS offers something called a "late bus" for students participating in after-school activities. Perhaps the other high schools will too?

The issue of having kids from one middle school going to multiple high schools is not a unique thing, even in Naperville. St. Peter & Paul sends its graduates to Benet, Central, North, WV, Nequa and probably 1 or 2 other high schools each and every year. Kids there don't shun (or are mean to) other kids that will attend a different high school. I graduated from SSPP and really don't remember using a kids high school choice as a critera for whether or not I would befriend them (although from posts on this board it sounds like this criteria will be commonplace at D204 schools). I don’t think graduates of SSPP are traumatized by having to enter an environment without each and every friend they had in grade school. Kids adapt - sometimes not without a fight - but they do adapt and most often flourish in a new environment.

To Don't forget to wear your seat belts,

I'm a litte confused by your posting. You chose to buy your house in 204 and go to WV. If you wanted to go to Naperville Central I'm sure you would have bought there. So it really doesn't matter if Central is in your backyard. Families in the Fry community chose to purchase their homes and go to NV. I do not live in Tall Grass, but I feel sorry for all the negative comments they receive.

"...while the rest of us will send our kids to schools that will be nice and small, class rankings won't be as hard to achieve and endless opportunities because of lower enrollment.

If that were to happen I'd send my kid to the farthest one if it meant less kids. He will still get an excellent education using the same curriculum, books, etc. and more importantly endless opportunities for whatever he wishes to do in his 4 years. RR or not."
I read you loud and clear :)! We already have it though don't we?
We are sitting pretty at WV and lovin it! Our neighbor's kid (from WV)scored really high on the ACT and can't decide between Notre Dame and Northwestern :)I think all of TG should go to NV :)

Now there's a plan!

Anyone up for it."

Posted by: Anonymous | February 15, 2008 01:02 PM

Title 1 is to my understanding (someone feel free to jump in and help me out) essentially when a school receives more money from the state because they have a certain, higher percentage of economically disadvantaged children attending the school. They are then asked to do certain things under the program to ensure that the school is trying to meet the needs that are inherently there because of the population that is at a disadvantage. I believe about 8 or 9 of our schools in the district are deemed Title 1, with Welch being the only school that is feeding into Neuqua now, or under the newly proposed boundaries. As of now, the rest are all at WVHS. I believe Longwood, Georgetown, Gombert and some of the other schools that are not scoring as well academically are Title 1 as well, and that is a part of the picture when we hear about the desire for some balance when possible.

Uneducated - Title I schools are those which have a certain percentage of students who are considered to be from low income families, and therefore receive special funding to serve them. It's not exactly clear to me how the status is designated, but I do know one of the driving factors included in dertermining Title I status is based on the number of students eligible for free/reduced lunch, as this means the families are usually in a position of receiving some form of government assistance to meet income needs. Hope this helps. You can find out more detail on the Illinois State Board of Education website.

"Oh and by the way, of the 8 houses closest to mine in Tall Grass, 2 are African-American families, 3 are Indian, and one is Asian. I am white and I am a minority in my neighborhood, and I have zero problem with that whatsoever.

There is no 800 pound gorilla.

As previously stated, I just want my kids to go to the nice state-of-the art facility just around the corner. That's all there is to it."

Posted by: Mike from TG | February 15, 2008 11:46 AM

Mike from TG,
I think you just dug yourself in deeper :).
Just a suggestion...why don't folks stop stating they are from TG when commenting. I think your neighbors would appreciate it.

Can someone explain to me what is Title 1?

This whole situation is a fatal mistake by our school board. First, they were very shortsided in not purchasing land years ago for a possible 3rd high school. Many school districts have done this in anticipation of growth (Lockport, New Lenox are examples). If the school board had purchased land years ago, it would have been much cheaper and we would have had several parcels to choose from, rather than the 3 or 4 options we had today. Second, they decided to place the new high school in an area of the school district that isn't growing and has the least amount of students. The student population growth is in the southern portion of the district, which is where the new high school should be located. This just makes common sense. Think about how businesses decide to establish new stores. They place them where there is growth! Rather than all of this bickering between subdivisions, we really should be angry with the school board for getting us into this situation in the first place.

One final mistake the board has made over the years, not having air conditioning in the elementary schools. While we have built several new elementary schools in the district, only 2 have been built with air conditioning. That is simply inexcusable. I suggest the board hold one of its meetings in the upstairs of one of these unairconditioned schools to better understand what teachers and students have to deal with. It isn't condusive to learning for sure.

I keep hearing about how our children are going to be harmed if they are suddenly taken away from their friends if the middle schools are split. I for one attended two elementry schools, two middle schools and three high schools in three different states. I never had a problem. In south 204 there are alot of families with children who move in and out. Every year in every school there are several kids that moved in from someplace and others who have left. About one third of my fifth graders Kindergarden homeroom at White Eagle is no longer there. He knows he is going to start out at Scullen and wind up at Still. He is fine with it. Our kids will not be harmed or damaged by being transfered. I think it is more the parents being unable to cope with having to start new.

First, excellent comments by 'Big Picture Issues'

Secondly, an earlier post indicated that I sounded as though switching schools to WVHS is a sacrafice....It IS. Hear me out...

Asking ANYONE to switch schools may require a family to make some sacrafices. Having years of school pride and spirit at one facility and then moving to another may be a sacrafice for some kids. Changing a commute may be a sacrafice. Friendships that are more difficult to maintain due to changes in schools may be a sacrafice.

Sacrafices may be asked of ANYONE being asked to change schools whether it is from Neuqua Valley to Waubonsie Valley OR Waubonsie Valley to Metea Valley.

My point; YES, it is a sacrafice to ask any of us to move. Is it the end of the world?? NO! But to say families are not sacraficing tells me you do not have kids in middle or high school.

Also, your comment stating that part of White Eagle is in Aurora is completely irrelevant to any boundary scenario. We are all in district 204 and whether a home address is in Naperville or Aurora or Plainfield or Bolingbrook should have NO bearing on where logical and fair boundary lines should be made.

Right on, sp (2/16 at 11:12)...it's as if they are determined to get this thing passed whether we need it or not, just because they said they would...years ago.

YOU are the most sensible person the blog site. Too bad you're not on the school board. I'd revisit the issue in a heartbeat and "make do" for a few years. It would put out a lot of (understandable) fires, and it makes the most sense for our children and our tax dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a possible process (IMHO) to resolve the boundary issues.

If board could bring in some independent experts and neutral experties (may be from out of area / perhaps from out of state) who could conduct a study on the population distribution and the school performances, the academic balance and transportation routes and travel times and provide the recommendataion on the new site and new boundaries, those recommendations will be more acceptable to district as a whole. The process will be more transparent and will be seen as fair and just.

Board can look at those recommendations, invite public comments and inputs and make the decision.

It may cost few thousand dollars for hiring such experties but has a potential to save mult-million dollars if an incorrect decision is made (not to mention the price students would pay in terms of time and efforts) in site selection and boundary recommendations.

Diddo on the kids walking. You are going to tell me that that bridge will be used at 6:30AM with HS kids walking when classes start at 7AM. What happens in the pouring down rain, snow and worst case -20 weather. Not to mention from Novemeber to March that it is still dark out at 6:30AM. I can tell you I would not want my kids walking that route.

Tallgrass may have a good reason to be upset but I agree they need a better defense than bridge.

Building MVHS in the north end of the district is the only way to solve the ongoing "US verses THEM" mentality fostered upon the students in 204 by the very same parents who are the loudest complainers here. The taxpayers in up north have been paying taxes to 204 for many years, to sit and watch school after school being built in the south end. Remember, those were our tax dollars paying for "YOUR" schools too.

As I see it, as enrollment declines in the future, this leaves the district in a great position. NVHS will serve the south while MVHS can serve the north. WVHS can either be decommissioned and the parcel sold as commercial property or turned into a magnet school for non-college bound students.

I guess there's some truth to the old adage that Money Can't Buy Happiness!

Why the new high school now?

NVHS student population next year will be 4500. The incoming freshman class with be 1250 (graduating class of 2008 = 1037).
This year we had cuts on the football team, we cut 100 boys from track (including seniors who had been on the team for 3 years, we even had to cut freshmen), there are two groups of Varsity Singers (girls cannot even tryout until they are Juniors). 200 kids come out for the school play, all musical groups are fiercely competitive. Neuqua is still going to be 4,000 with the new boundaries but better than 4500! (Sorry I do not know the numbers for Waubonsie).

But the number 1 reason to build a new high school now....the residents of this district voted to build a 3rd high school. When the district announced the new site for the high school, they got positive feedback from the community, so it has already been approved. Our children will survive the changes and being split up from their friends, especially if we as parents treat this as a positive opportunity to broaden their experiences. As parents we must help help our children develop the skills necessary to cope with whatever life has in store for them. There are certainly far worse things than sending them to a new school or splitting them up from their friends.

I reiterate the point that my main concern is the commute time which the kids have to go thru when it can be avoided. There is no need for the SB to try and build a high school by 2009. They can wait and deliberate on other lands which might provide a more suitable solution. They are rushing to buy a land in the north where there is no future growth.By doing so they are expecting the children in many of the schools face a longer commute than neccessary. I am definitely not looking forward to driving around in the evenings for the orchestra concerts and other after school activities. Instead of going to NV which is a mile and half away I believe, now we are going to spend more time driving around.The SB is proposing having late buses for the kids but is'nt it going add more to the transportation costs? I was against the previous plan for sending our kids to BB site too for similar reasons. If WV was in my backyard I would have no problem in sending my kids there, both the High Schools in our district are very good with excellent teachers but my appeal to the SB is please do consider the geogarphical boundaries while making the decision and not just try to achieve academic balance.

The subdivisions that feed into May Watts have Naperville Central practically in their backyards, and their kids are just as involved at Waubonsie as everyone else. Learn to accept the boundaries because they are this way for a reason.

The whole point of the new high school was to ease overcrowding and that’s exactly why everyone in White Eagle and Tall Grass claimed to have a “Vote Yes” sign in their front yard because its “What’s best for the children.”

Starting to remember that little argument you all were oh so passionate about? Well these boundaries are the solution because some people have to move a little to solve the real problem -- overcrowding.

Welcome to Waubonsie, Tall Grass and White Eagle. Keep your arms and legs inside your vehicles at all time and enjoy the RIDE!

Nap Dad-
Great point. In addition, if TG is deemed walkers because of the bridge, it will be dangerous for the students and motorists because kids are kids, and they aren't all going to follow all of the rules all of the time. Some tend to think they are invincible. That mindset is going to lead to jaywalking for sure. Especially because the bridge goes from one field to another, not from a paved street to a paved parking lot like Burnham Point has across from NV at 95th. You also can't tell me that there are going to be that many walkers for as far as TG and Pencross Knolls runs west.


Great points made in your first post. Only thing in second post is that Scullen will still get split. The Crestview Knoll kids and small percentage of Peterson kids still go to NVHS while TG and WE would go on to WVHS. TG is such a large area that even if they have to head off to WVHS as just a sub. they are in good company while Crestview Knolls and the % of Peterson kids going to NV is much smaller.

I'm assuming there is a numbers reason why they have the middle schools split the way they do as well.

I too think the SB is doing us a disservice by choosing the Eola property in an isolated part of the district away from most of the population. They spend years and millions of dollars in court fighting for BB but they quickly reject Macom, why? Complications. Not all owned by one party, don't know if park district would agree to land swap. Did anyone from 204 even ask the park district? We see how well they talked to each other about the bridge. I personally think it's too late to change their minds and that we going to be stuck with this bad decision forever.

To echo Anonymous (posted 2/15, 5:12), it would be nice to see everyone in the District 204 community focus on the true issue at hand: the "vote of no confidence" that the Board has left the constituents of this district with as a result of several years of poor decision making as it concerns both our children and our money - clearly our two greatest assets. Irregardless of town of residence, neighborhood, school, or intentions, the common thread running through the majority of the discussion two years ago and today is dissatisfaction with the Board's performance. United, as district constituents, we can and need to express this objectively and factually to demand and effect change. We can do this without taking the easier route of personally attacking individuals, schools and neighborhoods. We have to assume that most of the comments and inuendos to date are baseless anyway, as I don't think any of us can claim to know enough people in any area of the district to accurately "characterize" them. What is the point of doing so anyway, since we correctly teach that stereotyping is flawed and wrong, and since at heart all of us only want what is best for our children, best for our district? Surely we are capable of asserting ourselves without doing it at the expense of our peers. Everyone needs to take a step back and look at the bigger picture as it concerns the future of the district on the whole and demand that the Board slow down in its actions and do the same. Does it really make sense that:
1. The 3rd high school site is now proposed/approved on land that was deemed unsuitable (largely due to environmental conerns, I believe) two years ago, and has been basically untouched between then and now?
2. The 3rd high school site is in an area of relatively low student population?
3. The 3rd high school site, while arguably cutting down on the commute for some, is increasing it for many others?
4. The Board is looking to close on the Eola land deal several weeks before it knows the district's exact financial obligation for the outcome of the Brach-Brodie property?
5. That we have yet another school being built west of a long railroad line, that could potentially be seeing a significant increase in train traffic, which can do nothing except endanger our students and increase commuting times?
6. That we can't find a solution that will allow all or the majority of middle schools not to be split, so students can maintain a sense of community and friendship as they move into high school?
7. That balancing academic performance, while a valid goal, is really only going to be a fix on paper unless the Board also has money and a plan to addresss underachievement at its root causes, which are varied and complicated, but approachable?
8. People who live in close proximity of certain schools are being asked to go to schools much farther away?
9. That there is a large proportion of students on the east side of the district that have been asked for many years, and continue to be asked, to make long commutes because there are not enough schools close by to really serve them?
10. All information pertaining to bus routes, times and costs has been provided by a company that has a vested interest in maintaining a contract, and now potentially even a bigger one, with the district?
11. That the recommendation report to the community would include information about a bridge that clearly singles out a single subdivision's claim as a walking community, while other walking communities surely face similar and obvious hazards crossing busy streets to get to school, though they might not be "officially" deemed as such?
12. That additional bus routes and earlier/later bus routes will need to be added to fulfill one criteria (low travel times) at the expense of another (keeping expenses down)?

In the end, good decisions based on facts, logic, and constituent input (to the highest degree possible) should not create more questions and problems than they solve. Right now too many questions are on the table, and we are left wanting defendable answers. Let's believe, and let's ask that the Board believe, that we can certainly do better - for the sake of the entire district.

The bridge over 59 has caused more confusion in this boundary discussion than anything else. Even if TG went to NV after the bridge is done, very few kids – less than 10 would actually use it.

First of all, the eastern boundary of TG is about ¼ mile from route 59. Second, the bridge would require many kids to go “out of their way” to cross it. Third, and most importantly, the number of actual kids who would walk from TG, is extremely small.

From personal experience, I run behind Neuqua Valley in the morning, the average number of kids I see walking from Ashbury –in good weather – (which is even closer to NV than TG) along the bike path is six or ten.

TG folks should find much better arguments than the number of walkers or the fact that the bridge is being built.

Anonymous 8:07 a.m., I feel the same way you do. They're rushing to build this thing and get it open just to prove for a couple years anyway that it was needed. Because in a few years, we ain't gonna need it. We were suckered into approving it when we were told what the boundaries would be when Matea was going to be at Brach Brody. I agree with cb's post above that most of 204's population is in the south, it makes no sense to build a school way up north where few people live and bus kids an hour and a half round trip. The Eola site is stupid and we should try to stop the school board. Something like the Macom site makes more sense, it's closer to the population, but our great and wise school board leaders seem determined not to be anything that's going to benefit Macom in the least.




To Lilly --

Explain to me how Peterson should be 100% feeder school. Have you looked at all the subdivisions that feed into Peterson? There are a ton and they are all over but there are 3 -- Wheatland South, Crestview Knolls, and the street right behind the YMCA on 95th that don't have to cross 59, 95th, Book Road to get to NVHS. All the kids have to do is walk through Wagner Farms and voila - they are at NVHS. That's why Peterson is getting split between middle schools and high schools because our subdivisions are everywhere.

I am shocked at the school board's decision with the new boundaries. For my neighborhood (Brighton Ridge) and our neighbors in West Glen, our children - like many others in the blog - will be sent by bus well past any close schools to a new location well away from their friends. Where is the logic in this. It can't be because of planned expansion of our subdivisions as we are already bounded on all sides (unless the good people of the school board / the state are planning on allowing expansion into the forest preserve). Beyond the social ramifications for our children, this also has a direct financial impact. Who would want to buy a home in a neighborhood that is roughly less than 4 miles from 3 different highschools knowing their children will be sent to one nearly 9 miles away?

I hope everyone doesn't take TG For A Reason's comments seriously. To me the comments are so over the top, that I would guess somebody is trying to make TG look bad. Not too far fetched in my mind given that anybody can post comments and call themselves TG residents.

As a TG resident, my main concern is the travel distance. I agree with another post where it was pointed out that we bought in TG with a reasonable assumption that our children would go to the closest HS. Namely, NVHS. Those who purchased houses in the northern part of the school district, purchased their homes with the knowledge that their children would attend the closest HS - WVHS. Along with thier purchase decision, came the commute distance and time to WVHS. What is happening in the current proposal is essentially those in the northern part of the SD see their commute to HS significantly decreased, while those of us in TG will see a significant increase in commute times. I just don't see how this proposal represents a fair distribution of students. In my opinion, the decision to build MVHS in the north was shortsided as the growth in the SD is in the south, which is the only factor in driving the need for a new HS. In short, the new location should be somewhere in the south and there were two viable sites that fit this criteria.

Assuming that MVHS will be built in the north, I am worried that TG residents are getting lured into providing strong arguments on this blog about not having our children split from thier schoolmates when the leave Scullen. What could be a very realistic resolution to this argument is that TG students no longer attend Scullen (which is in our subdivision) and follow WE students to their new middle school. That in my opinion would be the worst case scenario for TG students. I say be very careful in your arguments, because you may just get what you want. No split, but wrong outcome and wrong middle school. At least right now TG students get to attend the middle school located within their subdivision.


You make WE's going to WV sound like a sacrifice. The fact is WE is partly in Aurora, and isn't that far of a bus ride from WV, so what is the big deal? A portion of that sub. went to WV before anyway. Why is there this need to give them a carrot,middle school-wise? If they go to Still as proposed they can begin making friends with the Gombert and Peterson kids they will be at WV with.

Any one scenario making things better for one area, only does so by taking away from another. Your plan may make the transition for WE kids smoother from middle school to high school, but it does so by having Welch kids go to middle school with no one THEY will later go to high school with. You say it is already a split school for them but there are Tamarack and Crestview Knoll kids that they could get to know if they stay at Scullen. And at least WE is close proximity to Still, the southern most part of Welch clearly is not.

I don't personally think split middle schools are a big deal. I went to one myself as a kid and then my family moved my junior year in high school to boot. If my kids go to high school only knowing kids from their neighborhood and K-5 school, no problem. They will all survive. I just wanted to make a point.

We live in WE and two of our children gradutated/graduating from NV. It is a wonderful school and both of them were lucky to have met some of the best coaches and teachers who offered support, guidance and respect for them as individuals. They also made some of their best friends on NV XC and Track teams. Our youngest child is currently attending WE Elementary and is a member of WV Swim Club. We have been dividing our time between NV and WV for the last 3 years as - swim practices and meets at WV and XC/track meets at NV. And I can tell you that our child is coached by equally wonderful WV coaches who (I am sure) are also great teachers at WV. I find that some of the comments about WV on this board are completely irresponsible.

I have to say that I just love living in #204. The board meetings, blogs, etc are hilarious. Its just like the OJ trial. I have a fifth grader who was to go to Scullen and NV. Now he will be going to Still and WV. That is fine. We are ready to cheer on the Warriors. I don't watch TV as much as I once did. The boundries are a much better show. My kids will get a great edcuation no matter where they go. But keep it up; the fighting and name calling. The entertainment is non stop. Incidently at the up coming board meeting if you see someone laughing amid all the shouting it will be me.

Under the new proposal the kids from our elementary school (Owen) have the longest commute to high school of any neighborhood in 204. In the spirit of trying to find a solution vs. just complaining, I took a look at the boundaries and tried to figure an alternative. You know what? There is no good solution that balances enrollment and doesn't involve either very long commutes or bussing walkers to a further school. The probem is that the population skews heavily to the south and the school is being built on the north end. I didn't realize until this boundary recommendation came out, how heavily skewed the population is to the South.

Perhaps we should consider walking away from the notion of completely balancing enrollment. If Fry was mapped to Neuqua, and Owen to Waubonsie, Neuqua would be more crowded than the other schools, but less crowded than it is today. That change would address some of the longest commutes under the current proposal.

An alternative would be to look at a southern site.

I think spreading out the title 1 schools should be a lesser priority than commute times - that has nothing to do with balancing academic quality, only with balancing test scores. The true quality of education is equal across the 204 high schools. If my daughter happens to go to a high school with a greater percentage of kids who struggle academically, I have no problem with that. Our high schools offer courses appropriate to all levels of academic achievement. As far as I'm concerned the only impact is that she'll have a higher class rank. I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with an hour and a half round trip commute picking her up from extracurriculars.

Lilly: I think having Welch students to go Still, then continue on to Neuqua makes a lot of sense (because we are already bussed to Scullen and walk to Neuqua). While it would increase commute time for some kids, it would shorten it for others. Then if the SB looks at sending Owen kids to WVHS, then Still would get split btwn WVHS and NVHS (I think). Scullen doesn't get split at all which addresses many of the concerns expressed by parents in TG that don't want Scullen split.

Thank you Jim Lynch for your words of restraint. This blog is a like watching a train wreck. I was hoping given the sad news of the day that people would put aside their own agendas and come together, sadly that was not the case.

I have said it before and I say it again, I am confused. This school referendum was passed by the majority of District 204 to build a new high school. The high school boundaries were "proposed," middle school boundaries were TBD. TG, WE and other subdivisions were going to be BUSSED to the new school. It was the south side of District 204 that got this referendum approved (the north side was more of a "no" vote). So why all the consternation about still being bussed. The original Metea site and WVHS are not that far apart. Yes there is a concern about the proposed sale of the railroad tracks to the Canadian company, but the SB has already come out against that. To think that the SB has the time or inclination for hidden agendas or secret meetings is quite honestly a bit far fetched.
To Owen Dad: I definitely sympathize with the blight of your subdivision. The new Metea site is too far away. WVHS makes the most sense because then Still would not have to be split and your subdivision already goes to WVHS. NVHS does not make sense for your area, because there is no room in any of the southern middle schools and Still is the least crowded of the 204 middle schools. Something has to be done about Scullen, it has 1450 kids for a school made for 1,000. We have had portable classrooms for 3 years and this year because of the size of the 8th grade class, our 8th graders did not participate in the annual science fair, an educational opportunity lost.

To those of you who suggest the split at 95th street there is one major problem. It is one of the true walking population to NVHS. Woodlake, Burnham Point, Glenmuir, REALLY can see NVHS from their living rooms. The students from our neighborhoods, including Stillwater actually do walk to school (my son has for 4 years). My neighbors and I actually walk to football games and school events. What you are asking of your "neighbors" is to put up with all the NVHS traffic that we do not even contribute to(teenage drivers use our street as a speedway to avoid 95th street and then there is the Book Road, 95th congestion) and then bus us to WVHS. So your idea to cut student commutes is to take a true walking population that currently isn't bussed and make it a bussed population. TG and WE are already bussed populations, would continue to be bussed to NVHS and they already agreed to be bussed to Brach-Brodie with their strong support of the referendum. I think the SB made the logical leap that these subvisions would continue to bussed, even though it will now be to WVHS.

If you cut off the boundaries at 87th Street, then you are splitting up Welch and Stillwater, I am sure you would not want your subdivision and elementary school split up. Obviously Peterson is already facing that dilemna, but unfortunately for those subdivisions they were the last to be built in the area. By the way, it was the planning commission and the city council that approved all the subdivions in south Naperville. I have been here for 10 years and every time a new zoning change was requested for a new development (including the closing of the road to build Carrillon) it was opposed by the District 204 SB. The city council just didn't listen.

Yes, the new Metea site did change, but for those of us who supported the referendum we thought the Brach Brodie property would be resolved reasonably, shame on us for voting on something that was not a completely done deal. But to suggest that this is of conspiracy theory to aggravate some members of the district is just not reasonable. I am sure the members of the SB and our new Superintendent are thrilled to be spending their time on drawing new boundaries and subjecting themselves to derogatory comments from the community. But if you look at the boundaries that were drawn, NVHS did not change at all. It will still be the largest high school in the District. To open up the Neuqua boundaries for discussion again is just not logical, especially given the fact that the referendum was approved based on those exact boundaries. Those of you who approved the referendum knew the boundaries of Neuqua then and still approved the referendum. So I hope you can understand my confusion about all the negative comments and talk of reopening discussions that were long closed. The north side of the district is another story given issue of longer commutes for communities like Owen, but that is not where the majority of the negative comments are coming from.

To the person who made the comment about Bollingbrook residents in 204. That is how the district boundaries are drawn. Their residents have been a part of the district since the beginning of the district. They already have a long commute to NVHS and knowing people from that area, their children have all survived and thrived even with a long commute to school.

SP, when people attack a large community because of its diversity and location they should accpet what will come back at them. If you read some of them they have said they don't want their kids at WV because of its diversity. Of course they weren't as PC.

I'm amazed how TG can say what they want but when those who are attacked defend themselves they are wrong. Kind of one sided don't you think.

We will HAVE to go to MV, however, my kids would much rather go to WV for the same reason as those wanting to go to NV. Close to home, attend sporting events regularly and also swim there. But the reality is they won't. They will be fine and life will move on.

Great lesson to learn as a kid. Life doesn't always go the way you want and when life hands you hands lemons you make lemonade.

I would also advise that you all read the newspapers. You will find that their is more to upset about than boundaries.

Have a great weekend!

Wow! Looks like a lot of people are just dwelling on one subdivision and by doing so are ignoring what other communities namely, watts, owens and cowlishaw are also trying to say! They are also not happy with the commute they are expected to have. As soon as any mention is made of Springbrook or Clow having to go to WV they immediately come back with reasons like they are wallkers etc. But of course Fry community is not allowed to express their discontentment.Its named as WV bashing or racist thinking etc.I think the SB should go back and start working on more feasible boundaries or just think of building MV where it is needed most.

Hi Anon,
I agree with you but it wouldn't surprise me that this is indeed the opinion of some in TG.

Since you are all talking so childish on this site let me chime in with:

"Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me"

The "have's" and the "have more's" battling it out over "who can have it all."

You people should be ashamed, but based on this blog, it's clear you're all shameless.

Keep in mind that with the Brookdale middle school split that Brookdale was NOT being asked to leave their existing High school.

Either one or the other; either move someone's high school and keep their middle school unsplit, OR split their middle school and leave them at their existing high school.

When geographically possible (which it is), this should be done to eliminate the changes that any one area has to make. Personally I think asking White Eagle to leave NVHS, Leave Scullen middle school, AND enter into a split middle school at Still is asking TOO much of one area.

I suggest moving Welch to Still middle school and keeping WE and Tall Grass at Scullen with Petersen to be a 100% WVHS feeder school. Under the current proposal Welch is in a split middle school anyway, so why not at least minimize the changes for TG and WE by keeping their middle school UNsplit.

Wow you people are trusting. Do you really think that someone in Tallgrass would post something like "In TG for a Reason" did?

Or, perhaps, could it be one of the many TG haters trying to make TG look bad?

Anyone on here can claim they are from a subdivision and toss out flames. TG posters have made some very valid points on the boards and in Sun articles over the past few days. Perhaps others are seeking to restart the bad sterotypes? Perhaps the same people in Welsh that sent out the lies about the petition in TG that was not a reality?

Think a bit before you swallow whole what you read on the internet!

jwh - Unless my memory is faulty, Jeannette Clark voted against the final Brach Brodie boundaries and Curt Bradshaw voted in favor. The vote was 4-3. So saying that the 2 Brookdale school board reps voted against their neighborhood for the good of the district is not quite true.

My post is the post above the line - my post is the one that says we want to stay at WV. Not the post below that says differently.

Anyhow, I don't even believe that post below was posted by a TG resident. Just some trying to start trouble. I'm surprised the moderator allowed it.

Scott- How do you figure your proposal meets the socio-economic balance the board desires when you have no Title One schools going to NVHS and at least half of WVHS will be? Look at the areas you have feeding into NV, do you really feel that is diversity?

To TG for a Reason:

To Tall Grass For A Reason:

I had to read that twice....I would rather my children associate with children who value themselves for WHO they are than what they have and guess what???? I have a Masters Degree! Cars and nice things don’t matter, zip codes don't matter, the person inside does!!!!!

Lynn H.

Welch is proposed to go to NVHS and is in fact a Title One school. You're right though, none of the others going to NV are. If TG goes to NVHS instead of Welch then we truly have NV with even less socio-economic diversity than the other two schools. It will appear as I overheard some middle school kids say, that "only the kids with money get to go to Neuqua..."

I have one question. Was everyone satisfied with the boundaries for the BB site?

Hey SY:

What makes you think I want any of your kids going to NV?

If anyone is showing hatred it's TG. Folks up north have been living nad going to schools with what TG refuses not to. That does not make us bad, it makes us realist and willing to accept others. It's the comments coming from TG about the kids at WV or anyone who doesn't live in Naperville. It's quite clear where the hatred is coming from.

For those of you who don't know better, Illinois has many communities that blow Napv. away. Just check out the far north suburbs. You don't have anything on those tows up there.

Exactly Watts Parent-
Send them to a private school to achieve your goal of association with only the elite and save the hassle for all of us including the teachers at WV who are probably saying "why oh why are we going to have to deal with these arrogant parents?"

I would like to urge all bloggers to turn it down a notch, if that's possible. This thing is turning into a free-for-all with all kinds of name-calling, baiting and personal invective. Please try to keep it civilized. Thanks - now go back to fighting with one another.

Yeah Frank- and what makes your statement about NIU or Virginia Tech more absurd is the fact that the perpetrator probably looks more like you than any of the kids you are worried about your kids going to school with at WV

I would like to recommend that people educate themselves on the bridge's main purpose. It is not being built by the city for the convenience of TG or to help get those residents specifically, to any one location safely. So to say it shouldn't be built if it isn't going to be used to get students to NV is ridiculous. It is being built because they received 3/4 of the cost from a federal grant to connect the bike trails that connect all around our area. It is being built in that location because there was not enough land to build it further north as many of us would have preferred so people could get the movie theater and amenities more readily. Feel free to call the city and learn more about it as I did.

To the Watts Parent,

I don't have the right words for you. How dare you think that those of us who live in Aurora are underclass, uneducated and not hard working individuals. I just can't believe that you wrote that! I want my children to associate with anyone they consider a good person-one with values and integrity regardless of where they live. Perhaps you need to get your nose out of your a....

To TG for a reason:

I guess you just got screwed!

To TG for a reason:

You went to college? You are definitely part of a select group, extremely impressive.

TG for a reason:

WOW!! There is the 800 pound gorilla's brother. But he is 8000 pounds.

And you wonder why people hate TG and WE.

Jack T Mann,

You got it a little wrong. Brookdale voiced their opinion, and strongly about being split at the MS level (the only 1 of the 4 feeder schools split off on their own) and WEREN'T heard, or benefitted by voicing their opinion. The Brach Brodie boundaries weren't adjusted by board members to favor Brookdale. It was quite the contrary. The two Board Members voted against what would benefit Brookdale, and voted for what was good for the district as a whole. Something alot of the posters above need to think about.

Ron: Why don't you come up with some better comments to support our children going to Neuqua.

Comparing Waubonsie to Neuqua, Tall Grass children would need to cross railroad tracks. And if the railroad is sold, your children will be facing longer commutes and if you think it's safe, then enjoy!

Perhaps Waubonsie is safe or as good as Neuqua and I prefer Neuqua.

And if you think I'm alienating Fry/Tall Grass from the rest of Naperville, clearly you're forgetting who started all this....our District/Board.

Typical chat room....petty name calling and pointing out misspellings...stop trying to convince each other and focus on solving the boundary problem.

I hope all the people that hate TG are not displaying this negativity around their children. We wonder why we live in a society that hates so much...just look at all of these negative comments about one subdivision in 204. People that make these negative/hateful remarks create bad will for our entire school community.
By hating one subdivision so much takes the focus off the people who have failed at their jobs, the school board. The SB deserves to be called out on all of their failings. They have created a financial mess for us the taxpayers of 204 with the BB debacle. We still don't know how much $ this is going to cost us. Then they pick a controversial site for the 3rd high school. Finally they have not followed their own recommendations when deciding the new boundaries. Please turn your negativity on the SB, because they have created this mess.

TG For a Reason, I feel sorry for your children. They are living in a household with racist thinking. What are you going to do when they go off to college? Are you going to police who they talk too, hang with, etc? What happens if they have to live with someone "from the other side of the tracks"? Are you going to tell the university your from TG and your child deserves better? You don't like or want to associate with anyone who doesn't have what you have. That is a racist.

Well guess what, I live in Aurora, have a big beautiful home on a golf course pay a boat load in taxes and drive nice cars too. The difference is, I did not forget where it is I came from and those I've met along the way in life. They too are good hardworking people who want what we all want. Thank God for them that we have people to do the jobs that some of us don't want to do. My hats off to them. But unfortunately for them they don't earn what I do. But they deserve the same respect as anyone else in the community.

I do not flaunt what it is I have because I'm secure in who I am as a human being. I would be just as comfortable in my own skin if I didn't have what I have today. It's what's inside that counts and you are empty!

Please TG, for those of you who are respectable human beings, get ahold of your neighbors. They are out of control ignorant soles and need a dose of reality. I feel for those of you who are not as lain brain as "TG For a Reason".

The School Board cares not about your plight. The School Board cares about only their individual geographical situation. Oh they say it is all about the kids. They say is is not about increasing the average scoring, they say a lot. They simply have nothing to offer. They are pretty vacant in the mental capacity department.

To Jack from Moderator Jim: That last sentence was a doozy. I've got to file that one away for future use. Thanks.

The Joliet Catholic Academy is not too far. That is an easy $7,500 a year solution to all of the nonsense. Now just stop the nuclear waste from going down the White Eagle Tracks....Tell Glaw to do something about that!

It appears that when the Brookdale community voiced strong opinion on being split they were heard. They were not only able to maintain the status quo on the elementary school, keep the status quo on the middle school, but they were able to keep the High School status quo.

Perhaps it is because Jeanette Clark (former School Board President) lives in their neighborhood? I am certain the IPSD School Board is not able to have more than 2 IPSD BOD members together out of a BOD meeting at one time. So how would they stack the vote? How would they manipulate the system to assure the outcome each one of them wanted for their geographical location, while simultaneously sticking it to the neighborhood that they feel should be punished? EASY ANSWER, they meet, one of them sits at a bar (hypothetically of course), then one at a time each of them comes in and sits with the first member at the bar. Each one "visiting" the one at the bar would be given the position that is to be followed, or at least what each one of them wishes to occur. At the end the one who was originally at the bar makes motions to the effect that everyone had comments (demands). It is how it works, and it is effective, especially if you are really angry about a certain homeowners association. You see there was this referrendum that favored Tall Grass when Brach Brodie was still in play. I am of the opinion that there is still a Brach Brodie play, as the AME land has not had a Phase I, Phase II, NOR has it been under contract with IPSD 204. I think it is yet another smoke screen by the IPSD BOD to get everyone freaked out, again, about boundaries....then they sill spring a $200,000,000 referrendum for salaries? I am certain they are always less than honest, definately less than honorable, and above all else, less than kind.

A sad state of affairs is seen when we have to write BLOG's about what is going on. Ask the WE BOD member (GLAW) if he ever promised that Tall Grass would be moved to people he plays cards with. Find out if there were all these "back room" deals and promises. Find out if any of the IPSD BOD members have ownership in any of the contracting companies that will be working at the new site. Find out if the IPSD BOD members have any outside payroll from any of the companies that will be getting work at the new High School.

All of these things are very interesting and need to be asked. The funny part is.....no one is asking...at least no one that has to be answered.

After reading these posts I have to tell you all that I am so sick and tired of the useless arguments. I bought my house in TG for a reason. And yes, it is a very big house that cost a lot and has very high taxes. It was to make sure my kids go to NV. Period. And I didn’t pay all that money to be told now that my kid has to go to a school in Aurora. No way! I’m sorry if this does not sound PC but I want my kids to associate with other kids from families like ours. Hard working, college educated upper class people with nice homes and nice cars. I know I will likely be attacked for this thinking but this is why I have worked hard to achieve this level of success and be able to afford a little better for my family. And every one of us in TG and those in White Eagle feel the same even if they say they don’t. Otherwise they wouldn’t live there. So let’s get the SB on the stick and make sure that those who deserve to go to NV go there!

Just to get a different perspective.

Owen, Watts and Cowlishaw hate the new boundaries too. It has nothing to do with going to a "better facility" or "not wanting WV" blah blah blah. It's the distance. We want to stay at Waubonsie.

So why aren't people attacking us for wanting to go to a closer school? I'm with you, Fry posters. I get it. It's about distance and a sense of community that will be lost with this boundary plan. It's about parents unable to participate and volunteer due to the distances/time that need to be traveled. Not only does this increase miles traveled in the district overall; the miles traveled will be going with the rush-hour crunch instead of the "reverse commute." Give me a break, 8 miles on Rt. 59 does not take 8 minutes!!

It's about kids not being able to be involved in after school activities.

It's about increased transportation costs forever.

It's about this Midwest Gen site being WRONG for our entire district.

Go back to the drawing board, D204. You can do better for $145 MILLION dollars.

I am a teacher in a neighboring district. Speaking of education, didn't anyone teach you people to proofread your work BEFORE you click POST? Unbelievable.

To Scott:

The plan looks to me as it is kicking out a lot of walking areas to NVHS to fit in two subdivisions that will be bused. I am sorry if it came out that way. I have absolutely nothing against TG. I would not want to see Springbrook split from Gregory; I just thought it was odd that you would think Springbrook should go over Clow. If you remember from the last boundary vote, it was Springbrook separated from NVHS after the SB took a ride around some of the neighborhoods. I personally think the Gregory boundaries are one of the few that makes sense. I also don’t agree with the splitting from middle school to high school. I also believe the boundaries are done and changes will not be made. They have changed so many things that I think they will stick to the proposed boundaries.

I havea great idea. Let everyone pick what school they want to go to. Then all those who want to go to NV can go. While the rest of us will send our kids to schools that will be nice and small, class rankings won't be as hard to achieve and endless opportunities because of lower enrollment.

If that were to happend I'd send my kid to the farthest one if it meant less kids. He will still get an excellent education using the same curriculum, books, etc. and more importantly endless opportunities for whatever he wishes to do in his 4 years. RR or not.

Now there's a plan!

Anyone up for it.

Yes... I am from TallGrass... they need to go back to work and find an alternate solution. Splitting middle schools to different high schools is unimaginable in my opinion first and foremost. That goes for all of the schools & kids effected. There must be a way to make this work. Secondly, of course, I cannot believe they would send Fry 6 miles away to Waubonsie and hide behind the RT59 issue as the deciding factor. Find a better way. If the Rt 59 bridge means nothing to anyone in government and it now seems to, lets stop the project and save the money.

To: Not Sure
What’s with you and TG, it’s interesting that you singled out only TG from the above boundary suggestion. I do believe that there are many, many other subdivisions included there. My suggestion for the above boundary is based on the location of the high schools. “Who said the community is being divided” FYI, I live in a small Townhouse in Heatherstone.

The boundary option listed above is a joke! Clow and Gregory have WALKERS to NVHS. Springbrook is bused. How does that make sense????? I see you kept TG at NVHS!

Oh and by the way, of the 8 houses closest to mine in Tall Grass, 2 are African-American families, 3 are Indian, and one is Asian. I am white and I am a minority in my neighborhood, and I have zero problem with that whatsoever.

There is no 800 pound gorilla.

As previously stated, I just want my kids to go to the nice state-of-the art facility just around the corner. That's all there is to it.

I think you have me confused with another poster re: police officer presence.

In Dist. 203, there are streets that are actually split down the middle with neighbors on one side of the street attending NNHS while the neighbors across the street attend NCHS. And this type of thing occurs across the country.

I went to a junior high where only 24 of us went on to one high school, while the entire rest of our 8th grade class went to another one across town. Those 24 of us did well overall. My two neighbors became cheerleaders freshman year and I was one of the two students elected by the freshman class to be our student council reps. Of course we were nervous to venture off to this unknown school with just a handful of familiar faces in the halls, but our parents didn't treat it like it was a big deal, told us to go make friends, learn and have fun-- and we did! We kept in touch with our friends from junior high and got together with them still socially on the weekends and by phone.

Frankly, NV is so large that you may not see your friends from middle school the entire day anyway, especially if they aren't from your elementary school/neighborhood--then they aren't even on your bus.

Let's not forget, our kids go to school with one group of kids from K-5 who they get to know well, those kids will still move on to high school with them. And the friends they met in 7th or 8th grade that they will miss terribly, are proof of the bonds and friendships that can be formed in just a year or two, and it will be done again. And then again in college. And then again in the work place and then again in a neighborhood of their own one day.

Learning to roll with the punches, branch out, to stand on your own two feet, these are all valuable lessons that make our kids stronger.

Yes, my kids go to Scullen. And they were slated to back when they were going to have 2/3 of their newly made friends (WE and TG) leave them when those subdivisions went off to MV at 75th street. I don't remember too many people worrying about our kids back then, nor should they have.

I have no idea if NV or WV have police officers patrolling or not. In both schools if they do then its very good because it means our kids are safe. Its comment like those made by SY thats alienating people towards the FRY community.W as parents are concerned as to why our kids are being sent to a school which is much farther away compared to NV and why are our kids being singled out to achieve the academic balance and also are being isolated from all other kids going to NV from Scullen.
I like Scott's idea of balancing boundaries thats what it should be if we are going to have a school in North, Central and South. There should be a split at 95th or 87th street. Furthermore SB knew when the homes at TG and Tamarack and surrounding areas were buing built that its going to increase the enrollment numbers in NV so why did they have all the Bolingbrook homes to come to 204 district. Builta has a lot of kids attending the elementary school and many of them are from Bolingbrook. Maybe the SB should think of buying land in south east side..

I live in Tall Grass and completely agree that SY's comments were inappropriate. SY, stop embarassing us.

I bought in Tall Grass because under the assumption that my kids would to go to Neuqua, the nice state of the art school just around the corner. Period. Nothing obscene about that. Now they have to sit on a long bus ride and go to the much older school that is almost 5 miles further away. That sucks. Nothing controversial in me saying that.

And to Vermont's comment: "It is because of statements like yours that Tall Grass is the most disliked subdivision in the district which is why you are getting screwed by the boundries." Do we really need to determine and announce what the most disliked subdivision in the district is? It's like telling somebody that your dad can beat up their dad. It's juvenile.

Oh, and to all you TG haters out there. I live in a good place full of good people who work hard at their jobs just like you, many of whom go to church to pray just like many of you, who have the cutest kids in the world just like you, who drive minivans just like you, and who hang out bull****ing over a beer with their neighbors just like you. We're not any different. We just would prefer to go to Neuqua. It's closer and nicer. That's all.

And there it is, the 800 pound gorilla, sitting in the corner of the room.

"NO ONE has said they are upset with the student body of WVHS"

Frank...there is blatant racism and obvious racism....this is obvious...regardless of what naperville residents say regarding the boundaries, the basis of their protests is a fear of their children going to school with a large number of blacks and mexicans. In aurora no less!

To the JWH who posted that Waubonsie has a police officer assigned to it and Neuqua does not. You are totally off based. I have three kids who are students at NEUQUA and I can say that it is a fact that Neuqua has a armed Police Officer at the Freshman Building and at the Main Building maybe even more than one at the Main building. It is also a fact that the Naperville police regularly patrol the school grounds and the skate park located behind the school. The issue of having a police presence has nothing to do with a school being less safe but has all to do with making a school more safe. Safety is an issue at every school in America, unfortunatelt an unavoidable issue when you have an environment of 3,000 plus kids from diffrent social backrounds. High Schools are microcosm of our societies as a whole and therefore the same issue s exists in those environments. Drugs, Gangs, underage drinking, racism, and violence are issues we face at every school including Neuqua and I know personally this is true. It is up to us as a community and as parents to do what ever is neccessary to help keep all our kids at all our schools as safe as Possible. So having Police at a school is actually a good thing and not some negative political crap against Waubonsie. It is a blessing for our kids to attend any school in District 204 and 203. Wake-Up People!

Oh, and one other thing SY you make the really insulting statement "With the tragic incidents at NIU and Virginia Tech, I prefer sending our Tall Grass children to a safe learning environment". Comparing such awful tragedies to WV is downright ignorant. It is because of statements like yours that Tall Grass is the most disliked subdivision in the district which is why you are getting screwed by the boundries.

SYs post about Waubonsie being unsaft is garbage. Yes WV does have some kids who are trouble but NV has their share of bad kids like any other school. I recall a few years ago a boy at NV was beaten so badly that be is paralyzed for life and the boy who did it was allowed in school and along with his 'gang" intimidated the victims friends and siblings. Then there was the bank robbery in south west 204 that was allegedly committed by NV students. And about four years ago there was a naked man who walked around the halls at NV. WV never had anything like that. Don't throw dirt on WV being unsafe when NV has it share of problems like aby other school.

SY get over yourself. The tragedies at the colleges have nothing to do with WV. Because they have a PO in the building it makes it an unsafe environment. I believe NV has one as well.

That's right, none of the kids at NV are buying or selling drugs either. And the kids are WV are walking around with guns. Please really step out of your little cocoon and see the real world. After all, to buy drugs you have so have some heavy cash and according to these blogs only those south of Ogden have money. The rest of us are po white trash.

It's people who say ignorant things like you who have the kids doing God only knows what because your blind to reality.

Why don't you pack up and move to the north shore. That's real money. You all think your so high and mighty because you built homes in what was no man's land a few years ago. Want to impress me, take a drive to the north shore. Now that's class.

Enough with the dangerous railroad tracks already. My daughter has been crossing those "dangerous" tracks for nearly 3 years without incident to get to middle school. As far as having a a police officer at WV and not NV, I do know that the Naperville library next to NV has had MANY problems with kids from the school, and they have had to add extra security, including a police officer. As sad as the school shootings are, no school is immune to violence.

With the completion of Metea Valley the high schools would be located in Northern, Central & Southern parts of the district. Given the locations of the HS the school board may also consider Northern, Central & Southern boundaries. Suggestion: Metea Valley’s boundaries include all elementary schools north of Ogden Avenue and 75th Street. Waubonsie Valley’s boundaries are south of Ogden Avenue and 75th Street and north of 95th Street. Neuqua Valley’s boundaries are all elementary schools south of 95th Street with the exception of Spring Brook but that is where 95th Street curves and ends so it is still logical.

Using current elementary school enrollment numbers:

Metea Valley (north)

Waubonsie Valley (central)
White Eagle

Neuqua Valley (south)
Spring Brook

Base on the location of the schools this northern, central & southern geographical approach meets the criteria of a balanced socio-economic and academic factors set forth by school board.

WE "put them", or better yet, allow them their right to attend school in AND with their peers and in their community. Just like the SB should be doing for the whole district. D204 should logically define the MIDDLE SCHOOLS that advnace to the HS's, NOT the elementaries. This can't be a new thought.


Get your head out of the sand and take your rose colored glasses off. Neuqua does have a police officer assigned to it so does Naperville Central and Naperville North. They are resource officers assigned by the citys to the local high schools. Just because there is an officer assigned to the schools doesnt mean there is anything to it. All major high schools have officers assigned to them, with offices in the respective buildings. As for your comment about the rail road tracks. Dont all of the rail road tracks have gates and lights on them??? How all of a sudden have they become dangerous?? Do you avoid those rail road crossings??? OMG get a clue, as an adult you should have been taught that adults adapt to change and make the best of a situation. That is what you should be instilling in your child. No matter which high school a child attends in this district they are getting the same great education. The building does not make the school, its the people inside that do. I moved into this district so my children could attend Waubonsie Valley. There is nothing wrong with Waubonsie Valley it is a great school with great kids and great teachers and staff.

The Clow/Gregory area is filled with walkers. I don’t think that is a logical idea. We would be paying more for buses, to bus them from their area than the TG community. I do agree the TG community should not be split at middle school, but the big question is where do we put them?

Where does John get his info that the school board is looking into teh Clow/Gregory area. That area consists of walkers.

Profoundly disappointed with the District and Board's off-target recommendation of sentencing Tall Grass residents to endure unnecessary long travel times plus crossing dangerous railroad tracks (which may see significant usage) by attending Waubonsie. Also, I am concerned about SAFETY at the schools --- Waubonsie already has a police officer assigned to it and Neuqua does not. With the tragic incidents at NIU and Virginia Tech, I prefer sending our Tall Grass children to a safe learning environment.

Transportation costs (in total) are not an issue with these boundaries. Those with an increased commute are offset by those with new, shorter commutes.

I see where the Sun has taken up the cause of the TG. They are other subdivisions with long commutes, yet the Sun only discusses TG.

What changes? I would make 59 as the hard western boundary for NV. Any subdivisions west of 59, go to WV. Send Westglen/Brighton Ridge (although I'd rather see them go to WV). There's afew northern subdivisions that could be sent to MV if necessary.

As to people buying houses to be closer to certain high schools ... I don't think anyone if the district bought their house expecting a 30 ... 35 ... 40 minute bus ride.

To all of you who can't figure out why we are upset about travel times. Would you be singing a different tune if your child was being bused to the 3 farthest school from their house, as is ours. To all the people on the "north" end of town who compare them driving to WV all these years....you bought your home knowing that WV was the closest school, and you choose to live there. Like you, my expectation was that my children would attend the closest school, WV, not one that is 7+ miles from my house. TG people I sympathize with you, but some of us got the shorter end of the stick and have it worse off than you.

One thing I haven't read here from anyone upset about their neighborhood being moved to another high school - what boundaries would you suggest? Obviously, some neighborhoods from NV have to go elsewhere - if TG were to stay - with it's large population, what neighborhoods (notice plural - it would probably take two or three at least to equal the numbers) would you move in it's place?

I'm asking this mainly as a devil's advocate. Boundary changes have balances, and one staying means others going. I'm just wondering what residents might suggest in order to keep the balance? Maybe some good ideas could come of an honest troubleshooting!

Also, to SP - the nature of message boards is that all have the opporunity to be heard, not just those immediately affected. The building of this 3rd high school affects all 204 residents some way or other, and this board gives them the right their opinion, whether one agrees with it or not.

The person mentioning the potential conflicts in splitting a middle school is anticipating future issues - which as a whole our school board has continually failed to do. Evidently schools like Scullen will have to have EQUAL time for both Waubansie and Neuqua Valley to speak to future students. My daughter went to Still Middle School and subsequently was moved to Scullen. The year that she was there, there were great divisions and rivalry among the students who were going to be moving to another school. Splitting the middle schools is a prescription for disaster and short sightedness. WE know this will create difficulties. The board itself has always professed that they would only do this as a last resort. It has always been unaccepted by neighborhoods in the district. It has nothing to do with kids meeting new kids and making new friends. AS an aside, while Still was a very good school, with excellent teachers, there were many fights - none at Scullen. Why would that be? Further, the school board is NOT accomplishing what they suggest to be their goals. THere is no equality among each of the high schools and this is a key opportunity to do just that. Students in our neighborhood (WE) will go to Waubansie according to this plan. Had the plan been more equally balanced, I would have been fine with it, however it is not. Equalize the schools, do not split the middle schools and there will be a lot less dissention. Amazing that this site for Matea miraculously appeared right after Brach Brody was no longer an option.

The BIG question is:

Is there a better alternative solution ?

Is there a solution which would satisfy all or most of the stated goals to the maximum possible extent?

Is there a solution which would reduce the pain and agony which children would go through due to these new boundaries ?

Can the naperville talent, planners, engineers, intellectuals, scientists, lawers, transporatation and other experts come up with one or more alternate solutions and choose the best one through a democratic process (General Vote) - indicating satisfaction of majority of residents.

This is not just an OWEN problem or WE or TG problem, it is D204 problem and it is going to impact a lot of kids across the district boundaries.

I hope and pray that sanity and reason will win over emotions and anger.

First point: We elected our School Board, they didn't just leap up and decide to take a seat. They use their free time away from their jobs and family to serve us. If anyone thinks they can do a better job get off of your fanny and run. Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Second Point: I have lived in naperville for 24years within the District #204 and having watched history, I feel for one of the first times these decisions reached by the School Board were made without any hidden agendas or political favors that have to be met.
Third point: Look at a map, anyone can see the geographical guidelines of these divisions. Milage and times whether by car or bus these markers are and will be subject to change depending on the weather, traffic. Because taking route #59 can often make 1 mile seem like 5 miles so no matter what your kids need to get use to a bus, unless you have a way for every neighborhood to have a high school. I think we are fortunate that District #204 has done such a good job of trying to locate as many Elementary Schools in neighborhoods as they have. I think that by the time the kids reach 11 and up they can handle getting on a bus.
Fourth Point: Don't try to sell the point that it isn't about money because it is, but it is also about investing in what every school that my child would go to. Being involved both financially and physically any school is about what you put into it, not what you take out. Again be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Fifth and Final Point: Complain all you want about the Districts money going to fight lawsuits then make sure all the lawyers in the neighborhoods that are not happy go file some more lawsuits just to keep the district busy in court and not working for our children.

I know its probably old news but I am interested in seeing what the Laidlaw plan looked like for the two southern sites that "were both good sites but had many issues which could impact the 2009 opening". Maybe we ought to wait until the settlement costs are known for BB before we rush to close on the Eola site so we know if we can afford it and pursue some of those "issues". Wouldn't it be interesting to learn that perhaps there IS another option.

I commend the administration relooking at the boundaries for Welch, Clow and Springbrook as alternatives to attend WV and relooking at moving Owen and Fry to NV. This does make alot of sense and will reduce overall drive times. Way to go they are listening!

Hey Anonymous 10:04 p.m., the school district's going to say the costs of busing kids around the district are going to be the same no matter where the kids go to school. Say Metea was at BB instead of Eola and the kids from Fry didn't have to go to Waubonsie. You'd then have the additional costs of busing kids from up north to Metea. You can try but you're not gonna win that argument with them.

To Anonymous at 9:34 pm,
Seems to me that you are being very positive , that is nice to know but I am curious to know if your child is going to have to commute to a different HS when you have one practically next door? If you are going to have that experience and are looking forward to it then I applaud it but if not please stop giving us advice.
I have not read any negative comments about WV in this blog from TG or any of us at South Naperville but sounds like the Teacher's wife has something to say about WV and Bolingbrook HS.

That's a good point. How much will it cost to unnecessarily bus Fry students to WV when they are a little over a mile away from NV. Doesn't anyone on the 204 school board care about wasting gas and the increased polution every day? And what about the maintenance on the busses for that unnecessary trip. Increasing the carbon footprint and polution for what purpose?

I would like the school board to make public the total cost of bussing Fry to WV when these children could easily walk to NV. It's within eyesight of most of our homes.

I'm amazed that this is an issue. We live in an area that is so transient. My kids have more friends that live out of state than I do. Why, because so many of their friends over time have moved away because of job relocations. Every child in our school probably knows a half dozen kids who have moved out between K-5 and another half dozen that moved in. My sons 4th grade class had 2 new kids come in by Christmas.

Kids today are so use to this, I don't think it even phases them.

We live in a nation full of opportunity, and in a community with the highest quality of education and extracurriculars. Change is never easy, but at times, it is necessary. The children will thrive, the neighborhoods will bounce back, the parents will adjust. We will continue to have the finest things that this nation can provide...let's be thankful and focus on the positives. Our children will take our lead.

I agree that our children will get a quality education at each of the d204 high schools. I would just like to know the reason why my child is being bussed 4.5 miles to WV when we can see the NV campus and we can hear the NV football games from our backyard. We're that close and we're being bussed.

I don't see the logic to these boudaries. How much money will be wasted in gas for an unnecessary bus ride every day for years? It seems the 204 SB doesn't care about the expense of bussing children because the state picks up the tab. It's still a waste of money and adds to the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. It's illogical and wasteful.

To respond to Dr. Y The students who attend the Frontier Campus choose that option on their own, it is not mandated by someone else!!!!

Here are just a handful of reasons why Splitting is negative -
Fry attendace area, as "PROPOSED" (not decided, right?), would attend Scullen Middle School with 2 other elementary schools - Those 2/3 of their Scullen classmates go on to NV and only Fry goes to WV. Put yourself in the position of losing 2/3 of your friends and classmates - It's wrong to take young teens and tell them their old friends are gone and that it doesn't matter - to just "start over". It's like saying "live with it" - it's inherently wrong if it's avoidable, which it is.

Also - where will Scullen's loyalty lie? An honest couple of scenarios - Starting in 2009, Does Scullen continue to play their fundraiser softball game against a MS that attends NV or against a MS in the WV attendance area? Whatever they choose, is it perceived as fair? And does the game now take place at a field near NV or near WV? The choice will send a message.

Does Fry... or even Scullen.... participate in Fine Arts Fair at NV or at WV? And for families with kids at both Fry and Scullen... let's see... how can families participate if they have performances at both HS's?

So... does Scullen invite the NV WildScats to perform at its assemblies anymore? Does Scullen encourage kids to stay involved in the arts OR do they NOT invite the WildScats anymore because 1/3 of the kids can't aspire to be WildScats because they're going to a different school.

Does Scullen send out announcements about summer camps at NV? Or WV? Equally or not? Does Scullen post any info about NV's Pom squad fundraisers or for NV cheerleading camps anymore? OR do they exclude anything that's not fair and equitable to both high schools?

How does Scullen manage "Spirit Wear" days where kids are supposed to proudly wear their HS colors.... or possibly NOT be able to HAVE Spirit wear days because of possibly rivalry? Even unintentionally, how does a split middle school NOT appear to slight one group in favor of another, period.

AND THEN, how do 1/3 of the Scullen kids develop school pride when they are constantly reminded of how they are DIFFERENT.

Another reason to NOT send the 1/3 of Scullen (Fry area) to WV is the 33 minute ESTIMATED bus RIDE TIME from Fry Elementary. Even 33 minutes is a joke,and it is ONLY the estimated RIDE TIME - does it EVEN include the time at the stops? It has to be the LEAST possible time estimate on the table, NOT worst case scenario. It's a bus ride with probably 10+ kids at each bus stop loading and unloading, traveling miles over both highly-trafficked, 45 MPH major throughways at rush hour, AND through 25 MPH residential zones and over train tracks on the way to Eola Rd. In reality, how early will these kids honestly have to get on a bus to school? It's AT LEAST an hour before school, and don't be fooled into thinking it would be anything less. It's "33 minute" nonsense.

Finally, if you were a parent in the Fry attendance area, how often would you allow OR ENCOURAGE any of your kids to participate in extracurriculars if it means you are driving the distance all the time? The younger ones can't be left home alone, and the older ones don't have a bus ride to or from the sport practice or yearbook activity or theatrical group, or club... And it likely takes you, WITH the rest of your family sacrificing their time and doing homework in the back seat of the car, an hour out of the day just to make the round trip. And God forbid if you have to do it both in the AM, and PM. Are you going to ALLOW them those opportunities or instead NOT ALLOW it because of transportation time and issues? Or maybe ytou decide you will have to let your kids "hang out" around the school grounds between activities waiting for rides. It's not good. "So maybe, son, you can't be in the Spring Musical or on the team anymore." How do you say you're sorry for that.

To Teacher's Wife-

i don't know anything about Bolingbrook High School BUT YOU seem to be implying something!

My older brother had to go through the split school experience thrice in his life. That experience has left a permanent scar on his personality. He always feels bitter about the experience and feels like a tree which was uprooted three times in the hope to find a better ground for it. Never had roots deep enough to feel secure and in harmony with its environment.

The agony to compete and prove and reprove himself in a strange environment at a tender age has taken a serious toll on his performance. I would not want my child or any child to go through that experience.

Concerned Parent wrote:".... Why should children have to wake up at 5:00am so that they can catch a bus? "

May I ask how many hours your child needs to get ready in the morning? Is it two or three hours? Maybe you can teach the child to move it along and then they can sleep later.


Regardless on where your children are going to school in D204, they will be getting a great education. I am sure they have made friends at their schools that they are at right now, but why can't they make more friends. I thought education came first and not their social life. For whoever said that since they live in Ashwoods they they didn't think that their children matter, COME ON NOW! They sounds ridiculous. No matter what happens or what the school board decides to do, is never going to make everyone happy. Like I said your children are getting a great education, stop complaining!!!

PS. WVHS is not full of gangs and felons. What do you think of Bolingbrook High School then? You SNOBS are ridiculous!

To Leigh,
No one is saying anything derogatory about WVHS. Seems you are the one with a prejudice! The sub divisions who are being split like Ashwood into 3 middle schools have every right to be dumbfounded and Tall Grass has every right to want their kids to go to the school that is in clear sight of their homes where they can actually hear the football games. No one on this blog has said WVHS is full of under achievers- you can thank the school board and administration for that perception. The board and admin has been VERY upfront about their goal of academic balance and that moving Tall Grass to WVHS did that. We have a right to be upset that our kids can't go to the same school as the other feeders of their middle school and Ashwood is rightly distressed over the cutting up of their neighborhood. It has notthing to do with the student body of WVHS. It has to do with the questionable splicing of Southwest Naperville. We have a right to complaing that our kids would walk or bike to school but now have to sit on a bus for in reality 45 minutes each way. NO ONE has said they are upset with the student body of WVHS. Stop throwing this misconception around. No one in Tall Grass or Ashwood or White Eagle is putting down WVHS or anyone there. But people keep making this accusation when all we keep expressing is we want to go to school in our neighborhood. Give us a break!!

To the school board...I am sure that it must be very difficult to find the best outcome for all, but I have to say I disagree with this latest plan. No doubt, it needs some immediate change. There are too many unneccessary school splits, etc. It's beginning to seem like the boards calculations have come up a little short. There are still many valid concerns here that need more attention. Please keep an open mind to this as you read all these letters. I am definately in favor of a further change. This plan as of 2/14/2008 does not seem practical to me at all. P.S I am a TG resident and have nothing against WV, but heeeeeey it's just not practical, it's really not, not not...

Anonymous at 2:30. Can you really compare living two miles from school and eight miles from school along with the generalization that all kids have long commutes? If it takes your student half an hour, what do you think the commute is from eight miles, through Naperville? Our kids obviously don't have the same fun on the bus that your daughter has.

Jeff and MH,

I live 1.2 miles from NV and the new boundaries have my children bussed to WV (4.7 miles). There is a commonwealth edison field behind my home and from that field, I can see NV campus.

Different children react differently to losing friends. We all know some that can easily adjust and others who do not. To all of the parents who say their child met new people because of a split or move, was your child happy about leaving their friends before it happened? My guess is that they weren't happy about the move beforehand but they had no choice and finally adapted.

Over time, anyone can learn to live with a nonsense decision but I'd prefer the SB made a logical decision.

Anonymous 12:07pm-

It was Lizzie that mispelled the high school names. Regardless,reading their posting I believe it was a kid. So next time respond to the correct person. DUH

I must say I am still confused about all the talk about overturning the referendum that the majority of District 204 approved. The referendum was approved to build a third high school with "proposed" boundaries. The SB always said they would determine middle school boundaries later. The referendum was passed with Tall Grass being bussed to the new school. Now they are being bussed to WVHS. Why is there still discussion about them being bussed, the residents knew they were going to be bussed with the building of a new high school. Tall Grass is a bussed population to Neuqua (bridge or no bridge). Most of Welch is a walking population and the amount of kids who are not would not make up for the amount of kids in Tall Grass. TG is a lovely, but very big subdivision that can no longer be absorbed by Neuqua. It was the last big subdivision that was built in south Naperville. There is precedence for this. When Brookdale was being developed, the new home owners all thought they would be in District 203 going to Naperville North. Wrong, their development was included in the newly created District 204 and their children would attend the newly built WVHS. A much further commute than TG to WVHS. Their children survived and thrived. So will every child with positive, involved parents.

My son, a 6th grader, will be split from his current class going into 7th grade. For a half second he was disappointed in having to leave friends. I reminded him that the current classmates that he is so fond of now DID NOT come from the elementary school
he attended in 2nd-5th grades. Well, he smiled. Then he started figuring out who would be transferring with him and who would not. He knows where all of his friends lives and their phone numbers. So he knows he can still keep in touch as much or as less as desires with any of those friends that will not be at his new school.

My son plays travel soccer. Only 2 of his other team mates attend are his classmates now. His soccer teammates are his friends also. He played basketballs and the last two years none of his bball team mates went to his school. He's had much fun meeting new friends in that sport as well.
Same with church and the neighborhood. Unless your kids are living in a bubble then I would venture to bet yours kids are making lots of friends outside of just those that attends his/her school.

I don't understand how kids lives are going to be ruin. Yes, maybe an inconvience for a minute, but long term devastation?

It also sadden me that I am hearing of kids being depressed. Living in the same town should afford the kids the opportunites to still see each other outside of school. How will these depressed kids respond to their first heart break? or being bullied/teased? Not get into the college they desire? not landing the Job/promotion? Parents get a grip. Maybe this is a signal for parents of those depressed kids to get the kid professional help now. This should not be taken lighly.

Speaking of travel soocer. Parents of travel soccer kids have to travel all over for games, tournaments, and training camps and we don't complain. However, we are now complaining about having to travel for our kids' High School activities.

I'm in WE and am dissapointed that my son has to go through this split. My son doesn't like this idea as he is going to miss his best friend. I cannot afford to move to the location where his firend would be after this new boundary is enforced.
With current state of housing market and this boundary change I think our house will decrease in value. Ofcourse some will benefit and others not. It is just depressing to think that I paid a premium in '2004 to buy this house mainly because of the school. If I was in the market now to buy a house I would avoid Fry and WE and pick a subdivision with shorter commute. I don't think 35 mnts and 30mnts from Fry and WE respectively are possible to make via rt 59 during morning rush hour and with railroad crossings.

Hi All,

I feel devastated by this move. We bought a house in our subdivision purely because of the schools. NV is 5 minutes drive from our house. Why should my kid travel for 25 minutes to go to WV? There is more to this division than academic interests. That is what I feel. And we are having topay for this.


Re: no precedent for overturning a referendum...are you a lawyer? There are referendums that have been overturned. However, either way I would ask you how precedents get created in the first place. Answer...they all start with no precedent and a judge that sees the merits of a case. Now tell me, even if you are a school board member or are happy about the results to date, do you honestly think there are no grounds here?

Have those who are complaining about distances given any thought to those who travel from the WVHS area to the Frontier campus which is next door to NVHS? I didn't hear any complaining from those students.

Just a thought......


Re legal precedent, how do you think legal precedents are created then?

I am a roughly two miles from my daughters Jr. High and as a crow flies a few blocks. Having said that, my daughters commute time is a half hour long. Not because of distance or traffic but because of the amount of bus stops involved in her commute. Regardless where we live whether it be 2 miles or 8 miles all these kids have long commutes. Especially if your the first stop in the AM.

She doesn't mind it all because it is an hour total in her day that she gets to spend talkig to her friends who are not in her classes. And when else do our kids have that much time to spend with their friends with homework, sports, etc.

if kids are commuting a long distance currently to WV maybe its because they do not have a school 5- 10 mins away. Are kids currently close to NV and being bussed to WV if they are then do enlighten me. We have all right to complain since we are being asked to do something which is not very logical. Looks like MV does not have too many feeder schools so schools from central part are pushed there and we from south side to WV. If we are going to have north, south and central schools then why not also draw boundaries in the same pattern? Otherwise build a school in the South where you need it.


Janet, your post has inspired me. I'd like to respond directly to the question posed by Ted- what was your experience...

I'm a D203 alumn and was one of the first classes of students to go through Kennedy. For 15 years, kids at KJHS have been dealing with being split in half. While the percentage of kids who attend North is probably a little higher than Central, I never once had a problem being separated from kids I went to junior high with. Do you know what it meant? It meant our weekend time was a lot more fun because we hadn't spent all week with one another. My grades were probably better for the same reason. It meant cheering for our rival when our teams were knocked out of the playoffs because our buddies were still playing. It meant going to dances and parties on both sides of town.

I don't feel like we missed out on anything, and I don't ever feel like I lost touch with my friends- and this was before anyone owned a cell phone or knew what text-messaging was.

Want to know the best part (in the spirit of the Valentine's holiday)? A whole new group of girls to meet! One of my junior high friends who went to Central introduced me to this other Central girl several years later. We got married eight months ago. Needless to say, the KJHS split is the best thing that ever happened to me!

Parents, if you're student is nervous about the switch, feel free to share my story. Stay positive!

PS- I love you honey, and I can't wait to see you after work.

Dr. Y I am in total agreement with your comments. I also looked at the numbers closely before the referendum and also saw the decrease in enrollment in the lower grade levels. I challenge anyone to look at the districts web site and see for themselves that the numbers are dropping and the referendum money could better be spent on improvements of our current schools and purchasing resources to assist the schools with the lower test scores, then building a new school that we may not even need in a couple of years. Do we want to go through boundary issues again in 4 - 6 years? Also, alot of heat has been addressed to both TG and WE. Let me remind you that when boundary issues were discussed before and one of the original proposal was for Springbrrok to go to WVH. Springbrook turned out in masses at a board meeting and that proposal was taken off the table. Also when another proposal was for Tamarack to go to WVH they also showed up in masses and again the proposal was changed for them to go to NVH. As parents we just want what we think is best for our kids

Dr Y,

You are obviously quite enraged with the current state of the district, but if you think you can either:

1) go back in time and have your friends overturn the referendum
2) create a new referendum with locked in boundaries, etc

you are dreaming. Also, there are absolutely no grounds (or prior legal precedent) to file a lawsuit.

SP and others complaining about commute increases,

Yes, some areas are seeing an increase (esp Fry to WV) in commute times. These commute times are less than the longest commute currently in D204. Many are commuting a long distance today to WV. They are balancing the schools and commutes.

Lynn Herman brings up some great points but I'd like to know the perception people have of what(too far to commute) is? Others have noted that Owen and Fry will have long commutes, Fry will be about 4.1 miles from Waubonsie, Owen will be about 8.5 miles from Metea. It amazes me that the proposed average bus route time on the District's website shows only a two minute difference, 35 min for Owen and 33 min for Fry. Sorry to get off topic regarding the "split experience".

My son who is a senior at NVHS, developed new friends at high school because of his activities. In fact because his chosen sport has taken him to many different meets in the country and all our children are connected via the internet and endless texting, he has developed friendships throughout the country. My other son, who is an 8th grader at Scullen and will be separated from his Tall Grass and White Eagle friends his sophomore year, is certainly unhappy with the boundary changes. However, since this has been known for a year, we have been talking to him about this being an excellent opportunity to meet new friends and develop new interests. Middle school is all about being the same, high school is about becoming young adults with new developed interests. Our children have to learn to cope with changes to their environment and as parents we can help them by seeking out the positive in a situation instead of dwelling on the negative. I hope everyone can keep things in perspective and remember that children learn from their parents.

to sp's comment re "what's wrong with WVHS...?".

Nothing is wrong with WVHS today. That may change tommorrow with overcrowding, but it is in the top 4-5 schools in the entire Naper-Bolingbrook-Plainfied-Aurora-Oswego area.

Individuals and the ISPD 204 school board have made it a problem in peoples's minds - people who never really thought about it as an issue in the past.

Did someone say island?

Hey, today is Thursday, LOST is on!!!!!!!!!

I’m in favor of getting the board out, they should resign, they’ve done an outstanding job in splitting the community. How do we go about getting this done?

ISPD 204 has crossed the boundary line so to speak. The latest fiasco includes:

1) executing nothing that was voted for in the 2006 referendum (the location, boundaries, and cost proposed by the district have all changed begging the question - is this legal?),

2) new boundaries developed in part to address academic balance and create the "new WVHS" - an academic juggernaut - actually generate lower academic average than today,

3) the district went "out of its way" to "knee cap" one of the neighborhoods by trying to kill off an IDOT-approved pedestrian bridge over route 59 - implying it was unsafe in a letter with the new borders announcement - blatantly to help support moving about 525 students to WVHS - many who will be walking to NVHS this spring over that very same bridge - a slap in the face of reason where one would think that walking is a green, healthy lifestyle and safe (keeps kids off the buses),

4)the coordination of the transportation study data was performed by a person who had a vested interest in the outcome - who lives closer to a new destination school than any person in the "knee capped" development,

5)the bus times appear to be a total fluke based on many parents own assessments all over the district like buses needing to travel 100 miles per hour to make the district projected trips work, left turns over railroad tracks expected to have 30 more trains per day with the CN purchase of the EJ&E tracks,

6)the continued use of Laidlaw as both an excuse and an implied independent information source when Lailaw has a vested interest in keeping its bus contract with ISPD 204 and will always do as 204 asks - example "here's what we want to do ... will it work?". ISPD obviously choses to ignore the fact that Laidlaw Bus Tranport is in the business to make money and that charging the district based on routes actually makes them more money,

7) assuring that WVHS (3000) will be bursting at the seams with overcrowding now that the WV Gold campus gets turned into a middle school...while NVHS has a Gold campus (1600 nameplate capacity), NVHS main campus (3900), Frontier campus (600) sit under-utilized,

8) the continued promoting of massive growth in the district and in the south specifically at schools like Builta that was built ...ahhh... to house 1075 students and actually houses 705, a decrease from the prior year, overall district elementary school population is dropping 1.4% overall, and 6-7% drops in lower elementary grades - a sign of an upcoming accelerated decline of students in the district due to a maturing population (this was always known but not shared),

9) the continuation of a rumored secret plan to eventually close WVHS - a perfectly fine structure, that with proper care, can last another 100 years,

As a result, there are plans afoot to explore overturning the 2006 referendum, and those folks who wish to join the cause will find out soon enough how you can participate.

The next referendum will require the following:

A)the full building cost including principle, finance and operating costs,

B)the location - fixed and firm with a contract in hand contingent upon approval,

C) a reference to a boundary map that cannot be changed for X years with referendum language like "with boundaries as set out in document 123 published on the the district website",

D) will reduce transportation costs by at least 25% (or similar), and reduce transportation safety risk by X% as determined by an independent third party transportation consultant,

E) will address long-term demographic trends, as determined by a third party independent demographic consultant, to assure that building capacity will meet projected student population where they live, to reduce transportation safety risk, and

F) use geograhic proximity as the highest priority to assure parental involvement, local community spirit, and high academic performance.

The district should keep this in mind as they burn money on further lawsuits from BB property, the expected environmental matters related to the Midwest Power Generation site, and parents of children who clearly will be unsafe with the current plans - and for those who do not understand this issue of bus transportation, hurried teenagers driving longer distance in rush hour traffic, etc., take a look at the following link - it's a reinactment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDHAK99pUB4

Yes you are on an island

The best place to raise kids in America (I think not).

We obviously are a community of misfits and horrible people...

Anyone who has expressed an opinion that having their kids bussed over an hour a day (when they are withing walking distance of a high school) is a BIGOT OR ELITEST;

Anyone who has expressed an opinion that splitting elementary or middle schools is unfortunate when there are other clear options available is SELFISH and does care about the community;

Anyone who feels that the SB has not acted in the community's best interests or is upset that we have wasted millions of dollars on fighting lawsuits is EVIL in that the SB is volunteering its time and thus it is not fair to criticize them;

WV High school is full of gangs and felons;

NV High schools is full of rich spoiled kids;

Metea High School will be full of glowing kids, who will all
develop cancer from the radiation and contamination;

Obviously, none of the above is true. However, folks, perception is reality, and we now live in one of the most undesirable places in Chicagoland! I think we are all to blame, but does anyone else see that this has been caused by the SB and current administration?

It is time to cut the cancer and ask the current SB to resign (how can they not see that it is in our district's best interests to start fresh). Trying to close on the new land before the likely 15-20 million dollar judgment is not responsible! Sending a memo (which is completely inaccurate) that intentionally divides the community against Tallgrass is hurtful and a breach of its fiduciary duty to all members of the district.

We can band together as a commnuity and demand that this Board resigns before they get us into the next 20 million dollar lawsuit, or we can continue to allow this Board to pursue its own selfish interests, while pitting the community against each other to accomplish its goals.

Am I on an Island?


Hey Lynn:

What happens when the test scores change? Would the SD move kids around every year to keep everything nice and even?



I am a concerned parent of an eighth grader who is going to be in NV gold campus one year and WV the next as per the board's recommendation. That itself is going to be a difficult period of adjustments for the kids. Lets hope the kids adjust to splits and whole bunch of changes. But I am more worried about the time they are going to spend commuting and thats going to mean getting up more early, coming late, not take part in a lot of extra curricular activities. They are not going to have time enough to study or spend with their families. I agree with Janet that this going to big strain on the kids and parents let it be from Fry, Owens or any other school facing long commute. We are looking at a commute nightmare before us and before the SB decides to go ahead with this let them really look at how its going to affect the kids. I also wonder why is the SB not thinking of splitting Welch or looking at any other schools that feed into NV currently? If other elementary schools are being split why not Welch? All of Welch are not walkers to NV.
Fry students are high achievers and because of that should they be bussed to a school much farther away in order to balance academic performance? I also strongly disagree with people who are commenting here that the TG community is not wanting to go to WV for reasons other than geopraphy. let them step in our shoes and see whether they would like to commute everyday for 35-40 mins or so instead of 5-10 mins. Not just that but also shuttle between Scullen MS and WV which is exactly what I will be doing for all after school activities for my 2 kids if SB adminstration has its way!

It appears that little time was spent working on the boundary suggestion this time around, this is the same proposed boundary map used during the last attempt for the (75th / Rt59 location) with changed made in moving some schools around with ridiculous travel time for many schools: Owen, Peterson, Cowlishaw, Fry, Gombert … I don’t see how this plan meets the board’s criteria of balanced enrollment, academic strength & minimization of transportation/non-contiguous boundaries/split schools. The Administration needs to FIND ANOTHER WAY, it’s out there.

To Anonymous 11:28

Be part of the solution. Do you really think comments like yours helps the situation. Don't be so single minded. These are real people in case you forgot.

Here's a suggestion. District 204 could sell NV to the residents of Tall Grass and White Eagle, who can then organize their own private high school.

Then, they can pay tuition to keep their kids away from the undesirable areas and people of 204, and the district will have plenty of funds to build the new high school for everyone else.

Problem solved!

I was split out for my last year of middle school and joined kids that would be going to our other HS. I was then reunited with the kids from my original middle school for HS. It was a great experience. In HS it was fun competeing against friends in athletics and also made me realize that they are not the "enemy". They were kids just like you and me.

Today so many kids compete in non-school activities that they probably know kids from every school. My kids have always made friends when on their sports teams. Learning to make new friends from a variety of areas/cultures/backgrounds is part of growing up. Maybe the splits will help solve the division in the district that maybe the parents have created with the perceptions of the many schools in our district.

If the board is serious about trying to create unity between WVH and NVH than more than one boundary recommendation should be proposed. The current proposal still has NVH as the "golden child". The test scores under the current proposal have NVH at 92.5 with no title one schools and WVH at 86.1 a difference of 6 points. The proposal has no current WVH students attending NVH again not addressing the issue of trying to create unity between the two schools. I would challenge the board to look at my boundary proposal. MVH would have Steck, Longwood, McCarty, Young, Brookdale, Owen, and Brooks. I realize that not any NVH students would attend this new school. The reason for this would be logistics (too far to commute). WVH would be Georgetown, Gombert, Fry, Wheatland (Peterson), Springbrook, and White Eagle. The reasons for this would be that this allows a couple of current WVH schools to attend NVH and it balances the academic scores more, WVH would be 88.5 vs. the proposed 86.1. The above proposal has similar busing times as the board’s proposal, addresses the unity issue, and still allows all walkers to continue to walk. NVH would consist of Cowlishaw, Watts, Kendall, Patterson, Graham, Welch, Builta, and Clow. The academic test score would go from the proposed 92.5 to 90.7. The academic difference between WVH and NVH in my proposal is two, again creating more unity vs. the boards six. There are two current WVH schools attending both NVH and WVH again trying to create unity between the two schools. NVH has always had a very active Boosters Club, allowing a large sum of money into NVH to enhance current programs. My hope would be with four NVH elementary schools going to WVH this might help enhance the current boosters Club at WVH. I currently live in Tall Grass and moved into this subdivision to attend NVH because of its rankings and reputation. The current school rankings in Il put NVH at 40 and give the school 5 stars vs. WVH at 108 and give the school 4 stars (school digger.com/go/Il). Newsweek ranks the top 1300 school in the country. NVH has been on the list for the last 3 years (2005-719, 2006-761, 2007-607). WVH has been on the list only this year and ranked 1252. Your proposal will not change any of the above statistics. As parents, which school would you want your child to attend? Of course, you would pick the school with the higher statistics. My first option would be to keep my child at NVH, but if the board is determined to have Fry attend WVH than please reevaluate the current proposal to create more academic equality as well as unity between the two schools and end the conflict between the neighborhoods.

Well said Kevin!

Thank you Peterson Parent, you understand that Brighton Ridge and West Glen are mainly concerned about the distance and travel times to our high school, not which school we attend. Over the years our kids have moved from May Watts to Cowlishaw to Owen due to new boundaries and each time it was a wonderful opportunity to make more friends.

Is there still a need for the 3rd high school ? Do the growth projections need to be re-visited ? The economic realities around here are not the same as they were even a few years ago with Lucent, BP, and others significantly cutting their workforce.

I was a supporter of the 3rd high school, but I am not sure we are talking about the same economics today and the same growth projections.

The botom line is when you voted to approve the third high school, that is what you voted for. No where on the ballot did it say, you were voting for a third high school with specific boundries. The school board has that option to change boundries as it sees fit to adjust enrollment at its schools. No one got taken! No matter what new boundries the school board could have come up with, someone would have complained. OMG lay off the comments about crossing rail road tracks. Kids arent idiots they know how to drive. I grew up in a school that was split between three high schools as well. Kids are kids they will have friends no matter which school they will attend. Give me a break and stop pretending the world is coming to an end. All three of our high schools will provide the same educational benefits to meet the needs of all our students. Its the people and teachers inside the school that matters most not the building. Get over yourselves!

Years ago, when Neuqua was in the boundary decision phase, I was at an elementary school PTA meeting. A parent brought up the boundary situation and our principal said "Don't worry, you will always go to Clow, you will always go to Gregory and you will always go to Neuqua". Now considering the idiocy of some of the boards decisions, we have been lucky that has been the case. However, Clow was split when Patterson opened. Gregory was split when the original Crone opened and was split again when Still opened. My kids all lost friends at those splits. They kept in touch with the ones that were good friends and the others fell away. The same thing happens naturally when kids go from elementary to middle to high school. To think that you are going to keep the same friends is naive. Are we really going to go through this again because some of you don't want your child going to a particular school? Be honest, the negativity that TG or WE feel towards the boundary change has more to do with having to go to Waubonsie than it does with TG being 1 mile from Neuqua and 6 miles from Waubonsie. The board had to make a decision and whereas I have disagreed with the way the board has handled this process from the beginning, the boundary line has to be somewhere. As another poster said, kids are resilient. They are going to pick up on the parents attitude. It is time to get over it and move on.

My son had gone to Cowlishaw, right before Owen opened. Cowlishaw was split - some went to Hill, some went to Still. The kids get over it quickly and the parents didn't dwell on it either. They developed news friends at their new school. And at least in this case, they were all re-united at WVHS.

Oh, if everyone got to go to closest high school, NVHS would have at least 6000 students, MVHS 1000, and WVHS 2000. Actually, that's probably ok. NV parents wouldn't mind lunch in 1st period and classes in hallways.

What is Dist 204 administration thinking? Is our SB going to rubber stamp the proposal? HOPE NOT! We live in Ashwood Park where apparently our children do not matter. Or maybe this is another cruel joke or maybe another way to get back at PL and Macom?

There are 2 children in MS in this sub who next year will be pulled away from the ENTIRE Crone MS to go to NVMS. Is this fair? There are less than 10 ES children that will be split completely away and will be going to Still MS. How can you split a middle school 3 ways?

Half of the Ashwoods go to NVHS, Half to WVHS. Half to Crone MS and half to Still MS 30 minutes away.

The only response from the SB at this point is that some day the Ashwoods will be big. Apparently not and thanks to the SB (if passed) not in our life time. Who would want to live in a neighborhood that you can see the MS but can not attend. You can drive 4 minutes north and waive at Scullen MS and continue to drive 30 minutes to YOUR MS. Who would want your ES split 3 ways??

Is there justice? We will see. This must be a cruel joke. I just hope our children do not get hurt because of an inept school administration!!

To Sane voice,

I think you need to look at a map. Alot of TG homes are 1 mile away from Neuqua. Compared to 6 miles from WV.

The board says they tried to keep splitting to a minimum? Serioulsy? Taking WE out of Scullen has left Tall Grass as an island unto themsleves in a Nequa Blue Sea. My son is quite depressed that his buddies in WE will no longer be his classmates at Scullen. Kids at Scullen are already talking about not befriending kids they won't go to high school with. Splitting a middle school is putting fuel on the fire. Do you remember how impressionable and mean kids can be in middle school? Now add this divisive decision and you put our kids in emotional turmoil during already highly tumultous years. It won't be long before the rivalry and teasing begins. The decision to split Scullen has put the school and kids in a potential hotbed. If WE and TG have to go to Waubonsie then move the Nequa feeder schools out of Scullen and make Scullen a 100% feeder to WV or better yet, let Tall Grass Stay at Nequa- we are one of the closest subdivisions to Nequa. We are NOT closer to WV- please look at a map.

There is a southern, central, and Nothern school and the boundaries should reflect that. Owen's kids will be on a bus for 35 minutes and Fry for 33? Yeah, if they hit every light- Why is no one talking about the proposal for Candadian Rail to acquire the railways that these buses will cross. They are talking about at least 2 trains per hour. So don't be surprised when kids are late while they wait at a busy rail crossing.

Honestly, the school board's recommendation is about making numbers look good on paper- they wanted academic achievement balance at any cost and pulling Fry into Waubonsie did that for them plain and simple. Not in the best interest of the kids but in the best interest of the administration so they don't have to admit they are failing the struggling kids- how about actually raising up the failing and floundering students rather than diluting them by moving high achievers around.

I pray that the board listens to the constituents that voted them into office. They are supposed to represent us and ensure the administration doesn't make decisions that are not in the best interest of their constituents. Who is working for who?

I grew up in a district where, despite living in the same house the whole time, I was transferred once in elementary school, had 2/3 of my elementary classmates go to a different middle school, and half of my middle school classmates go to a different high school. That was District 203 in the 70's, and the schools were Mill Street, Highland, Washington, and NNHS. We kept our neighborhood friends, made some new friends, and either kept in touch or lost track of some other friends -- it really didn't seem to be big deal back then. Obviously, some effort should be made to keep kids together as they advance from one school to the next, but splitting a school is not the tragedy some are making it out to be. None of my high school friends went to college with me, either.

The recently recommended boundaries may align with District 204 strategic objectives, but will produce more harm than good for District 204 because of certain physical realities. I am stating my view as a parent of a Neuqua Valley graduate, a high school teacher at Hinsdale Central and a Tall Grass resident.

The transportation of large numbers of students from their homes south of 95th Street by bus or car at busy times of the day will be a daily scenario for students and parents. The route has numerous stop lights, a rail road crossing that is increasing its traffic, and the addition of a commuter train station in between Tall Grass and the high school. If the time is 33 minutes each way today without the additional train traffic, commuter station, and auto traffic, you can guess it will be close to or above the 40 minute guideline in a few years.

When my daughter attended Neuqua I frequently dropped her off at school. It took between five and ten minutes, her bus ride was minimal, and when she participated in extracurricular events it was convenient as a parent to provide rides. Being physically at the school is such a huge part of the high school experience that I am really disappointed with the adults who are drawing the boundaries and find this new scenario acceptable. Parents have legitimate grievances with the location and proximity of where their children attend school. Please do not dismiss these concerns so lightly as being frivolous. The law of geographic proximity states that relationships are strongly influenced by distance. The relationship between the students and Waubonise will be weaker because distance affects the bond, geography cannot be ignored, even though you may wish to do so.

The board should be aware of the lessons of the past before you march down this path. Don't delude yourselves that its attitudes about Waubonsie. It is and will be the realities of a long and difficult commute that angers parents and their kids. The residue does not go away as you are stuck in traffic and going on a route that is not a natural one. Although many of us already commute long distances to jobs, or to downtown Naperville, its usually in a different direction. Commission a traffic study and that is the case. More gas, more time, more traffic may not be relevant to the decision makers, but it would be if you and your family were faced with this proposal. Our families, our students deserve better. Have respect for their daily lives. Do not put us in a boundary at the southern end of a school that is difficult to commute to on a daily basis. It will break the bonds of trust in your commitment to fairness and equity. It will not be good for the district. Poor assumptions and decisions have lasting effects.

How about change the boundaries of the City of Naperville to include Waubonsie and Metea. I bet there wouldn't be an issue anymore.

You imbiciles. Same school district, same curriculum. Plenty of other cities have railroad tracks going through them.

Stop forcing your kids to live in a bubble. Meet new people get over it.

Like I stated on previous posts, if you aren't happy here move. If you move, thanks for proving my point that there are other great cities other than Naperville, IL to live in

I'm not sure why splitting a school is such a problem. What's wrong with meeting new people and being given the opportunity to make and develop additional friendships. If a child is split from a really close friend, they will stay friends despite going to different schools. While I understand that they are kids, being introduced to new situations is part of life and learning to adjust socially. If kids go on to college, they often don't know a sole. Neighborhoods especially like Brighton Ridge and West Glen will be burdened if they have to commute 35-40 minutes to get to school. Sure everyone would rather that schools not be split but it's much more important to go to a high school that is within a reasonable distance. All of the schools are great. If Brighton Ridge and West Glen are upset about going to Matea, it has nothing to do with not wanting to go to Matea. The issue is that kids should not have to travel such distance when Nequa or even Waubonsee are so much closer. Why should children have to wake up at 5:00am so that they can catch a bus? They have their whole lives to wake up early. That is a time when they need their sleep so that they can focus on school work and everything else that they should be able to do at that age. Why would we place such hardship on them and force them to go through 4 years of exhaustion to avoid splitting them from their friends from middle school. If it makes sense to do so, then schools should be split. Kids will adjust just fine.

I totally agree with the person that said that "parents must play up the positives" about schools being split. How the parent reacts is how the kids will react. No question about it. My son was bummed today that his friend would be going to Crone instead of Scullen with him in a few years. I told him that yes it's a bummer, but you can still be friends. Just because a kid goes to another school doesn't mean that you can't be friends with them. And then I talked about how cool that will be to hook up with him at NV in a few years. Play up the positives -- your kids will end up being more flexible which is apparently something we need around here in 204.

RR crossings are safe if you,
a) don't go around the gates to beat a train, and
b) don't stop on the tracks.

Pretty simple really,unfortunately there is always some idiot that doesn't follow the rules and gets hit by a train.

Finally someone speaks for Owen and their long commute. TG should take a look and quit complaining. WE commute is 30min vs TG 33min. Haven't seen any WE complaints in these blogs, even though they're switching middle schools, and high schools, and are having the splitting of schools effecting them. Seems as though they accept the longer commute time and are taking it in stride.

Driver's ED teaches a whole bunch of things. We are talking about minimizing the risks if that makes any sense to any parent whose kids will be doing this travel on a daily basis. For Fry-Scullen, NV just seems to be the obvious option based on distance and safety.

Please don't dwell on minimizing bus times for kids. If you live in a subdivision like Westglen and Brighton Ridge, it seems 204 Administration doesn't mind recommending longer travel times. Owen Elementary currently feeds into Waubonsie, 5.7 miles away compared to Neuqua which is 4.5 miles away and is proposed to attend Metea which is 8.4 miles away.

The original voter referendum was passed by voters in IPSD 204 AFTER the boundaries were presented for review, comment and approval by the Board. That voter referrendum was passed with this explicit understanding of where our children would attend elementary, middle and high school. The current process forced upon voters in IPSD 204 to select a revised high school site and then present and implement a revised boundary WITHOUT the voters approval is not democratic, and should be illegal. The voters in IPSD 204 should have the opportunity to VOTE, not COMMENT, on sites and boundaries as a pre-requisite to giving this administration the authority to pass this referendum and spend our tax money. Where in our democracy would we accept such a denial of our rights as citizens? We have been duped.

I think it is stupid for Fry Elementary to go to Wabonsie! Fry is so much closer to Nequqa and to put them on a 33 minute bus ride is dumb.

I am a student that will have to be split. Me and my friends hhad big plans for high school and now none of the will happen because we wont be going to the same high school. When I heard the proposal my friends and I started crying. We were all so sad. It's not fair that the middle school have to be splilt up. This makes no sense!

Well, if splits are good or bad we will certianly find out. There is one ES (Peterson) that will split into three middle schools. (Still, Crone and Scullen) Then Still and Crone will split yet again into one of the three new high schools.

Should make for an excellent study of human behavior.

There are many rail crossings in naperville. They aren't going anywhere, and we appear to be smart enough to cross them. I think they cover that in Drivers Ed.

Talking about minimising home to school commute times for kids, that's exactly the point. Also, making that travel safe should be important. I don't think having the kids to cross the railroads 2 times in a day is safe by any chance, especially when there could be safer alternatives.

My brothers and I lived through boundary issues in high school, while never moving from our only home. My two older brothers went to Elk Grove HS, my middle brother and I went to Forest View HS (Arlington Heights) and my youngest brother went back to Elk Grove. We lived 4-7 miles away from each school.

We never were able to develop that family "school spirit". Who's games would we go to, whose concerts and other activities did my parents/siblings make it to? It also became difficult to participate in extra activities being split between the two schools.

In response to Archana - Absolutely the Tall Grass community should attend NV. Fry elementary is 1.54 miles away from NV and 5.91 miles from WV. I do not understand how you come up with the idea that TG should never of gone to NV because WV was closer. This is just not true.

I attended Oswego district 308 as a kid, before the population and real estate explosion in the western suburbs. The elementary schools filtered in to two junior high schools, Traughber and Thompson. My friends were split up, but it wasn't really that big of a deal. It stinks to get separated from your friends, but kids from other schools will get shuffled in to make new friends with.

In my opinion, the school district should do whatever it can to keep commute times as low as possible... even if this means moving kids around to different schools. Shorter bus rides allow for kids to sleep later, get home sooner, etc. My bus route in district 308 was 45-60 minutes long.

I clocked in many, many hours on my classic GameBoy during bus rides that I would have much rather spent with my family or doing other stuff at home. If I had the choice of spending one hour less of my day sitting on a bus but it meant I'd have to make some new friends... I would have jumped all over the opportunity.

I can understand parents being upset that their children might have an awkward couple weeks at their new school making new friends. Look on the bright side though, being able to build new friendships is a valuable skill for kids to learn. It's not like you are going to stick with your original kindergarten class your entire life. If kids don't get split up for middle school, they'll get split up for high school. If they don't get split up for high school they will certainly get split up for college/work.

Try to make the most of it, I guess.

I look at it as something that is good in the short term, but should be phased out in 2-3 years. We want to minimized commute time for our kids, so it makes sense that (when possible) children attend the closest school. This is my only concern. I cannot understand the mind set that you can't split a sub-division. I also think that current high school students should be given some chance to finish school with their friends. And finally I don't believe most of WE and TG should have ever been offered Neuquia since they are closer to WV.

Going into a new environment -middle to high school, could be a intimidating situation to begin with. To add to that if they don't have their friends to count on, I think could make a child feel very vulnerable. Its very critical for us to make our kids feel confident and comfortable as they go ahead not like a small loney Nemo lost in an Ocean.

My kids haven't experienced a split in a Naperville school. However, we moved from Lisle to D204 5 years ago, so would imagine it as the same thing. You can call it a "split" but they are "moving".

I think it really depends on the child as to how well they will adapt to the change. Same goes for the parents!!!!

the freshman campus at waubonsie valley dhould remain a freshman campus and not convert it to a middle school. my kids like it there. also it's too far from our house to go to matea valley highschool it's a 35 minute bus rides for my children and nequa valley is alot less on the bus to school. those people who live near matea valley highschool should go there and those that live on the opposite of the boundaries should go to nequavalley highschool its within the boundaries area. please look into this for me and let me know about any changes in the boundaries for matea valley highschool.

I have four children, 3 now in college. We've moved all over the country, and have also experienced splits in multiple school districts. My youngest son, due to relocations, went to three different middle schools (not something I'd recommend, but a job is necessary). For the older children, two went to high schools where middle schools were split; keeping in touch is not that tough if they want to. For the one that did not go through a split, he ended up meeting all new kids in high school due to activities/interests, so a split would not have affected him anyway. My youngest is now at Neuqua, and although he changed curriculms three times in middle school, he's doing well, taking honors classes, playing sports and meeting new kids. Children are resilient, and although boundary changes and splits aren't fun, they also aren't the horrible things that some parents make them out to be. As others have said on the other thread, if the parents play up the positives and support the inevitable changes that living in a growing area brings, the kids won't miss a beat and will just move to the next stage in their lives with great attitudes.

I've also served on a boundary committee in another state; ironically, my neighborhood got separated from the rest of it's elementary school going to middle school. My neighbors thought I could protect them, but honestly, in looking at the big picture, there was no logic for their protection. And several years later, it's not been a big deal. All the concerns never materialized.

I've lived in another area, where due to the housing styles, aging population and new construction in a neighboring district, they were having to do the opposite - close neighborhood schools - also not an easy task, especially given the long history of those schools. Unfortunately, school districts are not static, and boundary changes are inevitable in some form or fashion. As someone who has moved many more times than I'd wish, we know to look for the strong "school district", not the strong school, because one never knows...

BTW, I definitely support a new high school. The ninth grade building should not have to be shut down in order for grades 10-12 to have enough seats to take standardized tests. There should be more opportunities for students to be a part of extracurricular activies to feel more a part of the school. 204 is a great school district, but I think a 3rd high school can make it even better.

This is just a general comment regarding what The Sun chose to publish in today's paper. It has already gotten back to me that Metea will be the new "red headed step child" school because someone read something in the Sun about low income families being assigned there. How can The Sun publish comments regarding perceptions of certain schools ("So Mad We Moved Out of 203") and then feign shock and surprise when these perceptions divide the community?

Response from host:

It's often said that newspapers and other media are mirrors held up to a community. We chose a mix of remarks: positive ones were published, too, so by your own logic those positive prophecies should come true, too.

It is very sad to hear that kids will have to face the split after middle school. My son will the one getting effected by this situation & when I gave him the news he was almost in tears thinking that all his close friends are going to be in a different high school. He also made a comment saying I wish I had know this before so I could ave made friends from only our subdivision & does not have to face this situation now. I am sure kids will be drifting away from each other keeping the fact in mind that they will not be togther in the high school.
This is a very sad situation that we are putting our kids into & district is playing a very bad mind game with our kids. I hope we can fix this & someone can put this nonsense to a stop.
Thanks reading our comments & hope we can provide a better future for our kids & not a political & personal mess that 204 district has created for their own good.

The Brookdale PTA voted to endorse a NO vote on the second referendum and got a good turnout and 80% NO vote on the referendum. Why? Stated reason was that they were unhappy about being split off by themselves and sent off to WV from Hill, when the Brach Brodie property would have shortened their commute.

Now the administration is doing the same thing to Fry and they are supposed to be happy about it? Unbelieveable.

The school board members are trying to make it out to be some stupid rivalry about going to a different school when it's 2 things, plain and simple. Splitting off by themselves from middle school and being sent farther away to high school.

By the way I don't live in the Fry attendance area.

Leave a comment

Naperville Potluck

The Sun invites you to share opinions about news and issues. Have a question? E-mail us.  


About this Entry

This page contains a single entry by Naperville Sun editors published on February 13, 2008 10:52 AM.

Naperville's got a new parks director was the previous entry in this blog.

Mass shootings prompt gun control debate is the next entry in this blog.

Find recent content on the main index or look in the archives to find all content.