Napergate Open Forum....Continued

I'm curious what the Napergate man thinks of the conspiracy theories regarding both a second shooter in the Kennedy assassination and whether or not man actually landed on the moon or if it was all filmed on an elaborate sound stage?

I guess the Napegatians are not aware the Napeville Sun set up a new post for them. They are still bloggin on the archived site in large numbers. Maybe the Host or Moderator needs to tell them as that one is getting very long and hard to manage.

Anyway I just want to make a comment that people blog when they are emotional!

It seems now we have 2 very emotional groups bloggin on Ted's Blogs with 400 or more posts each per thread.

District 204 on boundaries and the Establishment vs. Napergatians on political and impropriety issues.

Without emotion on an issue there is no bloggin or little bloggin! That can be easily seen. I think it is a great idea to have these threads to let people vent out their emotions. Venting out here is harmless! It is a good way to lose some steam before going to a City Council Meeting or a School Board Meeting! When you go there you don't want this kind of emotion. You want to be level headed and thinking logically from the brain as opposed to acting emotionally from the heart!

I hope Host Ted and Moderator Jim keep this thread civil from the beginning and it remains that way. They need to step in a little more. The name calling on the last thread was really UNCALLED FOR! I did not blog there because it was truly a MADHOUSE from both sides! Let us keep this one CIVIL!

Moderator Jim: Well said. Thanks.

I totally agree with Wendy. I am glad Host Ted and Moderator Jim archived that last Napergate Thread. It was becoming obscene. I stopped reading it. I would never want my kids to read the filth from either side.

Both Sgt. Greg Bell and the Napergate Man are outstanding citizens. Sgt. Bell made one single mistake in his life and everyone forgot he arrested a serial sex rapist and killer. He did not deserve the vicious attack from the Napergatians.

The Napergate Man has a car blow up on him and his daughter blows a toll 10 years ago possibly because of no change and the etablisment people tried to turn a REAL HERO into a REAL LOSER!

I was simply amazed by both sides. Both sides were out of line.
Jim and Ted needed to step in more before it escalated.

As Wendy, I chose not to blog with people who lost control of all emotion and sanity.

I have seen Sergeant Greg Bell downtown may times. He is easy to identify because he is African American.

He is always very civil and polite. He helped me cross the street once when I was in my high heels and a little wobbly. He opened the door to my cab even. I tought he was a classy gentleman besides being a good looking Sergeant!

It seems he had one bad night and lost his temper. I have lost my temper on my kids many times. I hope you bloggers don't call for my husband to divorce me because I lost my temper more than once.

I have apologized to my husband and kids when I lost my temper. It seems the only mistake Sgt. Bell made was not apologize when he cooled down!

He should apologize to the Napergate Man. The Napermate Man should accept his apology. Sgt. Bell does not need to be terminated. He has been a great police officer for 20 years. And calling for Chief Dial to resign is ludicrous. Chief David Dial was not even there! What did he have to do with the incident? As Host Ted stated he probably never heard a word about it.

Naperville is a big city and not a small village where the Police Chief knows if a resident sneezes!

I'm curious what the Napergate man thinks of the conspiracy theories regarding both a second shooter in the Kennedy assassination and whether or not man actually landed on the moon or if it was all filmed on an elaborate sound stage?

Posted by: Eli Hodapp | March 11, 2008 04:27 PM

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Eli,
What you are doing is trying to mock the Napergatians and get them all emotional and rattled up again. I don't see the purpose of your post!

Mocking a political group is counter productive and only brings hostility. You should know better!

I would like to hear your views on political issues in town besides the noice level of music downtown. No one mocked you when you were complaining about the noise level even though you moved there knowing music would be blasting from all the bars.

So what do you think of the bar scene downtown? Do we have too many bars? Should we stop issuing liquor licenses? Or should we go all out and become another New Orleans?

I agree we need to keep it civil. We need to stop focusing on a Tollway Violation the Napergate Man knew nothing about. We know his daughter did it and we know his notice came after he was arrested. The Daily Herald reported they did not even mail notices for 2 years. What is so hard to believe?

Basically the Napergate Man was blamed for the incompetence of the Tollway Authority. I mean, common, they are sending him a notice about a violation that occurred 3-5 years prior. Someone should have checked if the statute of limitations expired on the $1.60 cents his daughter owed.

You can not judge a grown reponsible man by what his daughter did when she was a teenager! It just does not seem fair.

I think Host Ted failed to step in and tell Establishment people this simple point. You judge a person for what he does and not his kids or mother.

The establishment people got a little carried away in their attacks on him. It seemed they knew the man was credible and influential in town and felt a need to bring him down.

I wish Host Ted would have pointed that out and stopped it. Once it was determined it was his daughter who did not pay a toll, the attacks on the Napergate Man should have CEASED and DESISTED!

I'm not mocking anyone it was a serious question.

What I really don't understand is how a police department will allow its reputation get tarnished to 60,000 viewers on these threads per week.

Of course everyone is eventually going to read these threads as the word of mouth spreads in Naperville. I heard about them from my neighber and eventually everyone will hear about them.

They will be much more popular than the Print Edition because for the first time in Naperville's history we have Freedom of Expression.

There is no freedom of expression before the City Council! How many words can you get in with a time clock ticking allowing you only 3 minutes while council members are interrupting you and stealing your time.

Let us hope our Council Members read these reads.

There is no longer a need for us to show up to City Council Meetings like in the Napergate Era.

If they don't read these threads and evaluate the pulse of the community, they will lose the next election.

If we can delay the library deck till after the next election and their vote remains 6-3 to build, I suspect the 6 who voted for it will lose the next election.

Hey, it is not our fault they forgot to check the 100-1 vote on the library thread against the parking deck. That is a tell tale sign of what will happen in the next election.

I love these threads. They serve a warning to our City Council!

If they don't listen, they pay with their seats on the council. Keep the bloggin goin my dear Napervillians and Napergatians!

Eli,
The Napergate Man thinks there were 10 shooters in the Kennedy assasination.

The Napergate Man also thinks the landing on the moon was filmed on Jupitor by Space Aliens.

There was no elaborate sound stage, he informs me.

That is his serious answer to your serious question.

I am also his spokeperson and I am stationed on the Sun as I can take a lot of heat from his bashers!

How is that for a very serious answer to you to your very serious question from the spokeperson of the Napergate Man stationed on the Sun!

I do believe these Blogs will eventually hold our City Officials and City Police accountable. We really don't need a grass roots movement anymore. This is our grass roots movement.

Yes, it is in its infancy and not yet as powerful as Napergate Ads. But I believe it will be more powerful one day in the future.

The Naperville Sun is providing us with the ability and means necessary to be WATCHDOGS!

I don't see why everyone is complaining!

This is the bus and Host Ted is actually driving it. Did you guys think Ted was going to buy a REAL BUS for us..lol!!!

We should be thanking the Naperville Sun!

If Host Ted feels everyone in Naperville but Chief Police David Dial and his 300 police employees are reading his threads, maybe he should put a link to his threads in the police blog section of the print edition.

Then we will know the police know for sure how we feel. We know they read that section in the Naperville Sun. I suspect they read these threads but they are under orders from Chief Dial not to comment. That is a more reasonable conclusion!

And let us face it. It is nice to have a blog where you can truly be anonymous. How many citizens in Naperville, have the courage to knock on the Chief's door and tell him they are upset about something? I suspect none! Not even the Napergate Man knocked on the Chief's door! Host Ted and Moderator JIm have not knocked on the Chief's door! No one has! So I don't think the Naperville Sun should expect a citizen blogger to knock on the Chief's Door! Plus, I doubt security in the Police Building would allow you to knock on the Chief's Door and walk in and talk to him.

So this is the only avenue we have and let us hope it works!

Cindy,

People have been posting grievances online since the 1980's. This is not in its infancy. What kills it is when people start posting garbage and start calling others who disagree nasty names.

FWIW, I have gone down to the police statement and filed complaints about things I saw that I did not like. The police are very approachable. What I have found works best is to state your observations and support your feelings on something without trying to act like you're God's gift to Police Work. Let's face it, no one here is.

The Naperville Sun is providing us with the ability and means necessary to be WATCHDOGS!
I don't see why everyone is complaining!
This is the bus and Host Ted is actually driving it. Did you guys think Ted was going to buy a REAL BUS for us..lol!!!
We should be thanking the Naperville Sun!

Posted by: Cindy | March 11, 2008 06:27 PM

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I think this clears a lot of confusion.

I do have to agree with Cindy that some bloggers actually thought that Host Ted was going to rent a school bus or two and drive us to City Hall one Tuesday evening. If he did that the independence of the Naperville Sun would be shattered in one evening. It would become the Napergate Sun and you would have 400 Estbalishment posters doing what 400 Napergatian posters did on the last Napergate Thread.

People have to respect the independence of the Naperville Sun! Both groups need to encourage the Naperville Sun to remain independent! The Naperville Sun is trying its best.

The perception is Ted Threads are tilted to favor Napergate Supporters.

The perception is the Naperville Sun in PRINT is titled in favor of City Hall.

I believe both are perceptions and only prove slight leaning either way. I see that Host Ted and Moderator Jim are trying to get rid of the tilts that caused the perception in both cases.

I really don't see why Napergatians are so worried. I feel the Naperville Sun print edition will disappear in 10 years. It will only be on the internet and blogging will be king.

There is no reason to cut all these trees down to make newspapers that are no longer needed. I can not recall the last time I bought or read a newspaper and got ink on my fingers. At least 5 years ago!

You can read the New York Times, Chicago Tribune and even the Naperville Sun free on the internet! I don't see a need to buy a newspaper.

I am curious if Moderator Jim feels the popularity of the INTERNET EDITION of the SUN will eventually contribute to the demise of the PRINT EDITION? I don't understand why anyone is willing to make a donation to the Sun for a service that is free on the INTERNET. Maybe I am confused! Can any bloggers shed some light as to why we even need a print edition?

For advertising? I get so many circulars and coupon books in the mail, I am certainly not going to buy the Naperville Sun for ads leading me to stores. All the ads that I suspect appear in the Sun are also mailed to me by Jewel, Dominick's and Wal-Mart. I get them all twice a week in the mail. Plus when you enter a store these ads greet you at the entrance.

I think we are undergoing a revolution. I disagree that the Naperville Sun can do anything to get its circulation up to 40 or 50k. The end of the Napergate Era was the beginning of the Internet Era. That is why the decline! Even the Napergate Man had a web site known as Napergate.com in that time. I am sure of that as I read his ads right on his site. He had an e-mail that was Napergate@hotmail.com You can actually see that in one of the ads posted by Host Ted! So this Internet Revolution began hammering away at the Naperville Sun even before the Napergate Era was over!

Did anyone ever consider that maybe the disproportionate drop of 13% for the nation compared to 58% for the Naperville Sun is not related to the performance of Moderator Jim and Host Ted!

Naperville is the wealthiest town in America with over 100,000 citizens. That would translate to more computers in Naperville per 100,000 population than any other town in America. Naperville is also a highly educated white collar community. That translates to even more computers per 100,000 population. That is why the Naperville Sun is dying! Not because Jim and Ted are not doing an excellent job!.

I can say last night I noticed Ted bloggin after midnight and before 6am answering any poster he had time to answer. Does that sound like an editor not working hard? Does anyone in Naperville work that hard? I hope Moderator Jim knows how hard Host Ted works. I have seen his hours mentioned before by bloggers but I saw it myself last night and this morning. It sounds like Ted lives on 4 hours of sleep per night. Jim could never replace Ted! No one would ever agree to take a job requiring 18 hours a day of reviewing posts.

I agree with Moderator Jim, that Host Ted is a messenger and we need to leave him alone. Furthermore, I do believe both he and John Q. Public are both neutral and only playing devil's advocates. Actually in hindsight, I think that was an excellent idea!

The sentiment against the City seems to have been running 200-2 on the old Napergate Thread just archived! How could you have a good debate with those incredible odds. So I am glad Host Ted took the city's side and played devil's advocate. Does that mean he is in bed with them?

I think Ted is overestimating the intelligence of the bloggers. He needs to tell them he is not buying a bus and will not be driving a real bus. He needs to tell them he is playing devil's advocate to make the debate fun, insightful and enlightening. He can't wait until after the fact to tell them! That is why he was so vicously attacked. No one understood he was just playing devil's advocate but in fact is really neutral. Now we understand! I hope next time he announces it before he does it. I guess it is not popular on these threads to be pro city police or pro city hall.

If you take Joe out of the equation, the City had only one person who has serious intelligence. T.B. is the only city supporter who has a very good functioning brain combined with an excellent education. He was taking on 200 bloggers single handedly. D.bone and dime are the same person and are both silly and what he/they/(it for alien) say is meaningless.

I loved how T.B. sliced and diced abuse of discretion and said,

"This may be cutting a fine line, but my issue with this abuse of discretion crap is that is that I draw a distinction between discretion and abuse. I think that once a cop is abusing someone, he is no longer using the discretion he is afforded. Thus, the abuse replaces the discretion."

It really shows he is intelligent.

But I don't think the Supreme Court would have ruled that way. I think they kept "abuse of discretion" as one PHRASE when they made that 9-0 ruling for the Napergate Man against the City of Naperville.

My feeling is they were saying we give our City Officials, City Police Officers, and Mayor wide discretion but they can not abuse these wide discretionary powers.

Mayor Margaret Price had discretion as the Liquor Commissioner at the time to do nothing to Extra Value Liquor for 2 sales of a minor to his employees or to revoke his license. She was given discretion to do anything. Exactly the same discretion as Sgt. Greg Bell was given that night. He could have told him to go home, you are a nice guy, I don't want to even book you, or he could have unleashed the book at him. As former Mayor Margaret Price, Sgt. Greg Bell decided for some reason to unleash the book at him! He went to the extreme of extremes in the same exact way former Mayor Price went. They both had wide open discretionary powers and they both abused them in humongous ways.

Since the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that former Mayor Price "abused her discretion" I think it is sensless to argue or discuss that case. Yes, T.B. has every right to disagree with the unanimous decision of 9 Supreme Court Justices. But why would he want to do that and subject himself to the onslaught he took on the other thread is beyond me. That is something someone like Joe would do as it would give him a RISE as he actually enjoys being blasted by 200 bloggers.

Speaking of Joe, he wants to make Host Ted a spy for the city by tracking IP numbers. I think Ted should ignore him. I post under a different identity on the School Boards. I did not know that was not allowed. Host Ted never laid out rules! So why this investigation! We were promised we would be anonymous! I expect Host Ted and Moderator Jim to keep that promise. If people can not be Anonymous on this thread, the thread will die. Why would Host Ted want to kill his own thread by tracking down bloggers IPs so Joe can give their names to the Police Chief! It seems silly!

The reason it seems silly is because the Naperville Sun is responsible for anything posted on this site. It is not an instant post site like Greta. All posts are reviewed either by Jim or Ted for libel before being posted. Most bloggers are clueless as to what libel or slander means. If a blogger called the Napergate Man or Sgt. Greg Bell an inappropriate word, it is the Naperville Sun's fault for letting it thru and not the uninformed blogger. Sgt. Bell could possibly sue the Naperville Sun but not the blogger whose post was APPROVED! Assuming he could sue of course as I have not seen anything libelous posted anywhere on these blogs. The Host and Moderator have gone overboard to keep it clean. They even delete words like pr**k which is not even libelous so they are going the extra mile and should be commended. I don't know what Joe is hollering about!

He is concerned about a blogger like myself who uses one name here and one name on District 204. That is so silly! D. bone used a second identity calling himself a dime. What is their to investigate, Joe? He is being silly! We all had fun! He did not deny that! Why did that not bother you! Because you are a hypocrite
with double standards! Taxpayer has also used Anonymous and Jim! Who cares? Let him change his name as he likes! Should we ban the number one supporter of DF just because he uses 3 names. He does not pretend he is someone else. We know who he is...it is so obvious! What is there for Host Ted to investigate Taxpayer about? He is a great poster and we know how DF feels because of him.

So why are we wasting time here, Host Ted! I think you should keep it anonymous as the Sun promised and let people say what they want even if they want to use multiple names. Most people like to use one name and get a RISE. Joe is not the only one who likes to get a RISE. I like to get a RISE to when I read what I write. Everyone likes that. How can you get a RISE if you give credit of what you write to someone else? Would a new print journalist ever do that? Why would a citizen journalist do that? Makes no sense! How can you get you 15 minutes of fame and popularity.

Only a few people in the world don't want personal recognition. I can think of only 2 people. Some anonymous guy on the District 204 thread that blogged over a 100 times and never revealed his name. The other is the Napergate Man who ran 200 full page ads and never revealed his name even once.

I am going to end this post and write another one as I have lost many posts that my computer ate up for now reason. I wish someone could explain to me how I can lose a post on Ted's Threads that I spent an hour writing because I may have hit some wrong button. I lose 25% of my posts before I even send them and I can never retrieve them. If something could be done there, it would increase the Sun posts easily by 25% if other people are having similar problems.

Moderator Jim: okay, it's 10:00 p.m. and i'm posting these comments now. as for what you say about print going dead...I doubt it very much. I see the future as the print edition complimenting the internet edition and a lot of stuff on the web that you can't get in print and vica versa. As for circulation decline, we're actually up this year and year over year. Naperville may have the population you cite but our print penetration into households i.e. # of people don't equate with # of houses in a home delivery model like Naperville shows the fallacy of your argument. Sure, more people have computers here than in many other places, but people still like to have that newspaper in their hands. One thing is certain: people like this kind of dialogue and it will only grow more popular. By the way, Ted's looking into how to get that bus.

Here are the reasons I believe Sgt. Greg Bell abused his discretion against the Napergate Man. His discretion allowed him 2 extremes. He chose the harshest extreme. Since it has now been revealed Sgt. Bell has been on the police force for 20 years, he certainly knew the Napergate Man not only because the town was small 20 years ago but because he was in town during that Napergate Kangaroo Trial that involved 10 police officers and park district police besides Mayors, City Officials and City Attorneys.

WHY THE SERGEANT ABUSED HIS DISCRETION THAT FATEFUL EVENING AND GAVE HIM THE HARSHEST TREATMENT.

1.He knew he did not know the Napergate Man was suspended since he literally parked right next to him on Chicago Ave. A suspended man does not do that.

2.He selectively ran his plates because he was curious as to what he was up to or for whatever reason. Illegal in my opinion since it was obviously not random.

3.He knew the Napergate Man was a good guy since the Federal and State Supreme courts declared him a man of good character.

4.The IABTF said he also was a good man.

5.As a Sergeant over 20 years with the same police department he was aware the Napergate Man had done a lot of police work by confiscating nearly a 1000 I.D.s and turning them over to police.

6.He know he won a National Championship for his effort against minors. Police departments keep track of minors and those who help them battle these minors.

7.He showed callous when he allowed the Napergate Man to enter his vehicle and drive it knowing he was suspended. He wanted him to commit a crime. That really is terrible whether it is entrapment or not. That indicates the man had a vendetta against the Napergate Man because he humiliated 10 of his fellow officers and possibly himself in all these courts of law and organizations.

8.He probably blamed the Napergate Man for the IABTF calling 5 or 10 cops fascists. Maybe he was one of them. The Napergate Man never called him that. The IABTF called him or his colleagues that and he had no right to retaliate against the Napergate Man for a report he did not author.

9. The Napergate Man stopped immediately upon seeing police lights. He did not take the NPD on an LA type of slow speed or fast speed chase.

10.The Napergate Man was very respectful of the police when he stopped.

11.The Napergate Man made sure his friend Bob was very respectful. Bob did not even utter a word which I believe is the behavior police prefer in this kind of case.

12.Before hand cuffing him and jailing him, Sgt. Bell had determined that it was a tollway violation related to a vehicle his daughter drove. Nothing to do with the Napergate Man!

13. The Napergate Man told him he was not aware of any suspension against him. And because he parked right next to the Sgt. leading the 11 man police force on Chicago Ave, this Sgt. has to have had the common sense to know this Napergate Man was telling him the truth. Again, it would defy logic that 2 brilliant men who were sober would just park their vehicle next to 12 police officers knowing they were suspended.

14.The Napergate Man had a dog with him that is obviously very attached to him. You can explain a situation like this to a teenager or even a 10 year older. But you can not explain to a dog why he is being separated from his guardian. This one really bothers me!

15. The Napergate Man was very polite and only told the Sgt. after the police officers turned him around for hand cuffing as a very last resort, that he would like some discretion as is allowed for by Chief David Dial and police procedure.

I can think of 10 other good reasons why he should have treated him in the best way discretion allows and not the worse way discretion allows. I will save them for another letter. But he did treat him in the worse way discretion allows.

To me this is a blatant abuse of discretion case. I am hoping Shawn Collins finds a way to contact the Napergate Man. I suspect he reads these blogs and he will eventually contact the Napergate Man and Host Ted's Dream will finally come true. That is my prediction and I believe it will happen! Stay tuned on Ted's Thread's for the latest developing news!

Virginia,

There you go again making stuff up.

I did not say Ted should post who people are, only he should post the multiple handles coming from the same IP address. He does not even have to post the IP address at all (nothing to 'investigate') but it would be nice to see what other handles post from the same IP that I use, or that Virginia uses, or that Cindy has posted from, etc. I said months ago I believe someone thinks they are hiding behind multiple handles yet give away clues in how and what they write that they are the same person.

I only asked some light to be shed on this, not to reveal anyone's actual identity or their IP address. Ted already pointed out 2 handles that were posting from the same IP address.

What's there to fear about that?

By the way, this claim of yours, that is the total hinge for abuse of discretion is nothing more than an OPINION and not a FACT.

"2.He selectively ran his plates because he was curious as to what he was up to or for whatever reason. Illegal in my opinion since it was obviously not random."

If one more tag was run that evening on a parked car, your theory is proved wrong; that it was not selective. Did you ever ask the police for their records on how many tag inquiries or lookups came from downtown in or around that time frame? Was it more than 1?

. Naperville may have the population you cite but our print penetration into households i.e. # of people don't equate with # of houses in a home delivery model like Naperville shows the fallacy of your argument.

Moderator Jim,
I read this sentence 10 times and I do not know what you are saying. Can you elaborate!

Secondly, I provided you with my real and correct e-mail address 3 months ago and continue to use it. Your are welcome to write me any time you feel. It would be great hearing from you.

But my e-mail was not provided to you for any other purpose. If I accidentally libel someone what assurance do I have from the Naperville Sun that my e-mail address will not be released. Do I have any privacy rights?

If I have no privacy rights, I would like to start blogging under a new name and not provide you with my real e-mail address.

Am I required to provide my real e-mail address which I have provided for the last 3 months or can I leave the e-mail address blank?

My point is are we blogging anonymously under the protection of the Naperville Sun or are we liable for any libel or slander we may unintentionally utter?

I am only a nurse as Host Ted has known for a long time. I can not afford any kind of litigation. If in anyway, I could be subjected to litigation for what I am saying. I would like to know. I also would not feel comfortable bloggin anymore if I could be held liable for saying some potentially libelous word accidently or unintentionally!

Feel free to answer me privately by e-mailing or you may answer me on your blog site, as I do not mind sharing the answer with everyone else.

I hope this issue can be addressed because some of Joe's comments of trying to track people down are very disturbing and I don't think anyone will ever blog on the Naperville Sun Blog Site if it stops being anonymous.

I am sure the blog sites get hundreds of more e-mails than the letters to the editor section for the print editon for one reason: because it is anonymous! Correct me if I am wrong!

I do believe we were told this is a site where we can remain anonymous. If I misunderstood or if there is some kind of misrepresentation by Sun Officials, I hope it can be cleared up soon.

I enjoyed all the posts today as it seemed bloggers heeded Moderator Jim's advice and cleaned it up. I think a message gets through much better by use of a logical argument than an attack on a personality.

Response from Host:

Truth is the best defense against libel. Be truthful and you have nothing to worry about. We'll continue to allow people to post comments anonymously, but it is possible to trace posts to a specific computer, if need be.

Debbie, you sure can be sued for making crap up about people on a blog which you have been doing for a long time. Especially when you start naming people. I hope you get sued for your constant slander and false statements as you hide behind your first name. Its all fun and games until you put it on paper for everyone to read YOUR comments. Good luck and sleep well.

http://blog.suescheff.com/tag/internet-slander/

As a Naperville citizen and taxpayer, I would like to say thank you to Sgt Bell for keeping people safe and doing a great job for over 20 yrs at the police department.

Thank you for taking an extremely dangerous person off the street several years ago whose name is Paul Runge.

As a cop, I am sure that this is not the first time people will try and smear you or complain you could have done this or that instead. I know it is just a part of the job but you deserve better than what the Naperville Sun is allowing to occur. Keep up the good work.

Below is an article that was written about that arrest.

Article Excerpt
Byline: Christy Gutowski Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer

Doris Harper trailed behind the prison van with a map, cash, clothes, handgun and schoolgirl's crush on the convicted rapist she planned to help escape.

After overpowering the guards, the object of her affection - Paul Runge - and another prisoner jumped into Harper's car and made a desperate break for freedom.

The trio was bound for Mexico, but didn't quite make it.

Less than 5 miles and 15 minutes later, an alert Naperville officer who recalled the getaway car's license plate number from a statewide police broadcast nabbed the suspects along northbound Route 59 near what is now the Reagan Memorial Tollway.

Gregg Bell, now a police sergeant, didn't learn how significant the Oct. 6, 2000, arrest was until several months later when prosecutors charged Runge with seven sex slayings committed from 1995 to 1997.

Bell may have saved other lives, including that of Harper, a former prison guard who testified she fell in love with Runge and agreed to help him escape.

Boy of Boy Debbie is now concerned she may have you know accidentally been slandering or perhaps making things up? All I can say is WOW...

Debbie:

"I am only a nurse as Host Ted has known for a long time. I can not afford any kind of litigation. If in anyway, I could be subjected to litigation for what I am saying. I would like to know. I also would not feel comfortable bloggin anymore if I could be held liable for saying some potentially libelous word accidently or unintentionally!"

Interesting enough, someone else was a medical student/nurse and mentioned this back in Dec.

"And really what is so unusual about this case is the cop agreed it was not clearly labeled and asked me to appear before the city council. I informed him that I was a Nurse at Edward's Hospital and work the afternoon shifts and thus could not appear on any Tuesday at 730pm. I asked him to appear but he said that was not his job. He statd his job is only to enfore the law!"
-- Posted by: Ameena | December 13, 2007 02:22 PM

Sometimes the professional world can be small. Know them?

Just wanted to say that this Napergate Man has gotten a raw deal in our town considering he has done more than anyone else in our town in the last decade!

It really does seem his mistreatment and abuse is related to his political views, achievements and accomplishments.

It is rather unfortunate City Officials can't recognize a hero when they see one. I guess they all must be blind!

Joe, great detective work, you called her out, lets see if she will admit it now? I would bet 1,000,000,000,000 to one, as the Napergatians love to do, that Ameena is Debbie.

Great job Joe.

None On and Joe,

Be happy to take you up on that 1,000,000,000,000 to 1 bet. Do you guys have that much money? Well, get it ready!

If you follow these blogs carefully and read instead of write all the time, you will have noticed that both Debbie and Ameena have existed for over 3 months on these blogs. Therefore, Debbie can not be Ameena!

Plus Host Ted has both their real e-mail addresses, not from today, not from since Ameena stopped writing, but from 3 months ago when they were both bloggin away.

Host Ted can check all their posts going back 3 months, check their e-mail addresses, and easily determine if they are one or two nurses.

Well, you guys never fail to make fools of yourselves. The Todd/Ameena incident in which Todd proved who he was, taught you nothing! You guys need to learn how to read instead of posting madlessly on 10 different threads and never doing your homework.

And by the way there are roughly 5000 employees at Edward's Hospital and Debbie never said she worked at Edward's. She could be working at any one of several hospitals in the area including Copley or Central Dupage! Do you really believe Ted's Threads are so unpopular as there would be no chance of 2 nurses from a pool of 25,000 hospital employees within a 15-20 mile radius that could be bloggin with us.

You guys really are DUMB! Dumb bloggers just don't have any credibility. Host Ted could destroy you guys in a second by disclosing what he knows, but if he did there would be no one to support the city since T.B. is vacationing in Florida. Think about that one!

There really does seem to be a denial on this thread that the Napergate Man was truly popular with massive support! I suppose he forged those two 3500 petitions, one to the City Council and the other to the Judicial System. If he did, he would be in jail. Forgery is a very serious crime! He is not in jail! That should tell you dummies something assuming you have brains!

Great letter Upset in Naperville.

I guess Joe went in hiding again!

Joe is a born FOOL!

Mr. Host and Mr. Moderator,

I think I can shed some light on this IP situation. You made this statement.

"We'll continue to allow people to post comments anonymously, but it is possible to trace posts to a specific computer, if need be."

Because there are somewhere between 7-10,000 Napergatian supporters and Napergatian sympathizers with so much diversified knowledge and expertise, they already know that a post can be traced to a computer. I suspect they have been advised many months ago by one of their remaining deputy leaders thru e-mail.

Napergatians are groupies and well educated people. They are networked thru a massive e-mail list created when the Napergate Man collected his petitions and when people wrote to him at his Napergate web site and in Napergate e-mails that he advertised in his full page Napergate Ads. He had some expertise in his organization to have a web site 12-15 years ago. Yes, you could read his Napergate ads on the Internet a dozen years ago. He was way ahead of the times.

Here is what I believe. Napergatians are not bloggin from their homes because they know they can be traced and no one wants to be traced when you are cussing on the police day and night. That is kind of stupid and Napergatians have proven to be NOT stupid.

So they are meeting in groups and bloggin from internet cafes with wireless connections. Mostly likely in groups while having coffee at a Dunkin Donut, Starbucks or Caribou Coffee. Or maybe even Ameena has a group with her in the library bloggin together. I have no clue. I have never been to the library but I suspect it has a wireless network like the coffee houses!

But I can tell you if a group of people are bloggin together at one of these cafes on a wireless connection on their lap tops they will all have the same IP address on all their computers due to the same connection. Every computer will have the same IP connection. That of the wireless IP address connection of the establishment. At a place like Dunkin Donuts that is open 24 hours the IP will not change unless they possibly have trouble or have to reboot the system. Looking at some of those very long letters and close proximity of time to each other, it is easy to determine they were written by many individuals bloggin together at an INTERNET CAFE. Possibly college kids in a lounge as Joe suspects as they also would have one IP! It is fun to be together and they can cuss all they want and they are not going to be tracked. Someone told them a long time ago not to use their home computers while home. They can be traced! So these Napergatinas were way ahead of the Naperville Sun in the same way the Napergate Ma was always two steps ahead of City Hall.

The Napergatian Group is undeniably a sharp group that had a brilliant leader and a well known organization. They also seemed to have learned to be secretive.

In this thread Virginia knocked out a huge letter at 909pm followed by another huge letter at 946pm. She could have easily pretended to be 2 people by putting 2 different names. She put the same name. If anything it seems more like 2 people trying to be 1 person, than one person trying to be 2. But I believe it is one person trying to be one person who can write damn fast. If other people had her same IP address they were using the same internet cafe at the same time or a different time. I have walked in Starbucks once and seen 20 people on laptops. I overheard some Napergate chatter, but I never suspected they were all bloggin together. Now I believe they were!

It seems logical. These guys have so many facts, share them and repeat them. They enjoy writing. Most of them write books. I think they are very emotional regarding this Napergate Man. It just seems obvious.

If they were playing games and looking for numbers, they could rack up 1000s of posts per thread by writing short posts like on almost every thread on this blog site. But they write long letters because they seem to be steaming and it helps release frustration.

Will they admit they are all bloggin together in groups. I doubt it. But I saw it once and I believe that is what is going on.

You still have the same number of bloggers. Nothing changes! They are just getting together and enjoying a latte bloggin. When you have a group of 20 Napergatians together, you don't need Ameena to do research for them. One of those 20 will have it in his memory bank and save the others so much time. That is the only way I can see any group being able to write so many long letters in such a short time with so much detail. No one can go thru all those old posts for the facts...someone out of the group is remembering!

Some of them may be doing the research for those who are writing. I don't know. I should have grabbed a latte that day I saw them and sat down. I could have told you how they operate.

As far as their latest political views since the Napergate Man retired. I think they are way too radical. As many bloggers noted it is their way or the highway. They will pounce on you until they get you to agree with them. And it is hard to argue with them since they do their homework.

People talk about Joe regarding slicing and dicing. About taking things out of context. About manipulating. About taking something and twisting it. Joe is no match for this group. They can slice and dice Joe and eat him for lunch while bloggin. But does that make them right. I don't think so.

I think Joe is right and all 200 of them bloggin are wrong. I do respect the Napergate Man as he has done a lot for Naperville. No one can dispute that. The real Napergatians involved with the Napergate Man were a classy group who went to city council meetings and demonstrated with permits. They made a difference!

In my opinion this latest group we are seeing here are not true Napergatians. They are wanna be Napergatians that have never done anything in their lives. They can't even drive their own bus. They want Ted to drive the bus for them. The Napergate Man always drove his own bus. He never asked anyone to drive it for him.

If these wanna be Napergatians can't even drive a bus how can they become true Napergatians. True Napergatians were brave and blogged from their homes. The Napergate Man wrote Napergate ads and stated the owner of Extra Value Liquors wrote them. He was not hiding. I believe he was just protecting his kids from the publicity by protecting his name. I would have done the same!

But this latest group of wanna be Napergatians are a bunch of wimps. They have no backbone. None of them can stand alone. They are like kids that have to be in groups of 20 when they write and post. They have to hide behind Internet Cafe's IPs. They have no courage to use their own. I am sorry, but I have no respect for wannabe Napergatians that have not done one good deed for society in 3 months! All they do is whine! And whine even more!

No change will ever occurr in NPD,until federal investigation cleans house. Dave Dial is the front man for illegals to acquire driving certificates. See his column in the SUN,maybe a reprint is needed to remind all the bloggers.The NPD is one of the most corrupt pd's I have encountered in 30 years of working to reign in police misconduct and criminal behavior.There are many,many reasons the federal government has assembled the largest task force in Chicagoland.The feds know of the problems we face in exposing criminal police conduct.You can help reform NPD,join C.O.N.P.A.(citizens observing naperville police activities),we use a 815 number to intake calls from citizens with legitimate complaints about NPD behavior. The MORE citizens unite,and speak in one voice to the doj/fbi the sooner this problem can be addressed.Crooked cops depend on the silence of 'good' citizens to continue to operate outside the law.Many good people remain quiet and/or afraid to speak out fearing retribution.We have never had this level of federal support to address this problem,now we do,how will you respond??C.O.N.P.A. 815-242-0019 call for more info or to submit YOUR story.Thank you and we look forward to hearing your story.

'Upset' and Name-Caller (anonymous@ 3/12/08-9:43PM)

I simply asked if they knew each other. Since there is a common profession between Debbie, Ameena and the NGM's daughter, I was curious if they knew each other in their professional careers.

They all seem to show an 'upset'ness for Naperville too, much like your very own handle says.

With commonality like that it's only natural to ask if they are all in the same 'circle of friends'.

If someone's own paranoia/guilty conscious wants to read more into it than what was actually stated, they are certainly free to.

I've been watching these Napergate threads for quite some time and always have been hesitant to jump in for fear of getting my head bit off in the crossfire... but I must ask a serious question.

You all seem to be so infatuated with this poor old man, but has he ever asked for you help? Has he ever even hinted that he needs help? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't all this take place years ago? Didn't the Napergate man go to court, handle the situation himself, and otherwise has been living happily ever after? Why are so many people treating him like he's some kind of modern day William Wallace shouting "NAPERGATE!!!!!" as a battle cry?

Submitting freedom of information requests, speculating what the Napergate man would and wouldn't do, guessing how he feels about current issues, and everything else just seems to be violating the privacy of an old man who seems to just want to forget this all ever happened and be left alone.

Whoever posted the stuff about the Kennedy assassination theories- I couldn't agree more! That's exactly what this seems like! You all seem to be creating drama just for the sake of creating drama. You all should put your efforts in a more positive direction. Volunteer and help some kids learn to read, join a fund raiser for your favorite charity, get involved in the campaign for your favorite local government candidate.

All the countless hours of productivity and energy that has been lost to rehashing things which was water under the bridge years ago boggles my mind. Some of these posts seem like they were written by Morty Seinfeld himself, anxious to get in to the business of the other residents of Del Boca Vista!

Live and let live, until the Napergate man asks for help... quit being a buttinski!

Joe,

The Napergate Man's daughter is going to medical school in another state as has been revealed on these blogs. Doubt she knows anything or any of these people who are probably twice her age. Doubt her Dad would bother her with this silliness and let it interfere with her medical studies.

Ameena and Debbie may or may not know each other....what is the relevance?

Most people in Edward's Hospital don't know each other. Some do!
No one even said Debbie works at the same hospital. More speculation that is nonsensical!

More likely Viginia and Debbie knew each other and blogged from the same Internet Cafe. Very likely according to what Ted and John Q. Public described on the last thread! Very likely!

That does not make them bad or guilty of anything if they had a latte and blogged together using their inidividual lap tops. There is no conspiracy here.

You are taken this down the slippery slope into the gutter like everyone else. Possibly worse! As the last blogger said! Do some charity work and be productive instead of fighting Napergatians day and night as if this is World War III.

"Here is..."

Nice to see someone else who believes that just because someone mentions or speculates or even asks a question on a blog does not mean there's a big grand conspiracy.

Now, if only the rest of the posters thought that way too....

Taxpayer,
Thanks for that post about libel and slander.

HERE IS WHAT IT SAID:

__________________________________________________________________

"In today’s crazy world of Cyberspace - it can be a free-for-all to literally destroy longstanding reputable people and organizations with a stroke of a keypad."

__________________________________________________________________

HERE IS WHAT I SEE:

An attempt probably by City Officials and Police disguising themselves as bloggers, trying to destroy a longstanding reputable resident and citizen known as Basim Esmail who established a very reputable organization known as the Napergate Organization!

I don't need to repeat why he is reputable. Just check Jane Q. Public's post that was posted yesterday morning on the just archived Napergate Thread. I would like to note that she forgot to mention this Napergate Man joined forces with former Police Chief James Teal to free the Nicarico 3 and worked on the case many years before endorsing the help of Chicago Tribune and renowned investigative reporter and columnist Eric Zorn who finally uncovered the wrongful action by police and prosecutors that resulted in the charging of 3 innocent men. Yes, police and prosecutors charged 3 innocent Hispanic Men wrongfully for the murder of 11 year old Jenanine Nicarico, a Naperville resident. So let us not keep playing naive on these threads and act like police and prosecutors can do no wrong and make mistakes either deliberately or unintentionally. I will say it again. They WRONGFULLY charged and continued to prosecute 3 innocent Hispanic Men for nearly a decade despite having great suspicion that Brian Dugan ALLEGEDLY might have COMMITTED the HORRIFIC MURDER of a defenseless child. (I would like to emphasize despite 25 years of allegations and "confessions under immunity," Mr.Dugan has yet to be convicted and thus must be deemed and considered 100% innocent under our Constitution as has been pointed it out to me by Moderator Jim)

I am sure of my facts! And that wrongful charging of these innocent Hispanic men cost each and everyone of us TAXPAYERS lots of money on our real estate tax bills. How ironic the blogger I am addressing calls himself "taxpayer."

But that is not the case we are discussing. We are discussing the case of the Napergate Man who was wrongfully charged right here in our City of Naperville by City Staff, City Attorneys, City and Park District Police and WHO ALL without exception were never held accountable by either the Naperville Sun or the City Council. I think it is high time that those involved be brought to justice and held accountable.

I believe the Judge in that Kangaroo Trial still works for the Park District Police. I believe Chief Dial was the Police Chief at the time of this Kangaroo Trial. While it is doubtful he testified, some or many of his police officers testified and most probably embellished under OATH. The Police Chief needs to take responsibility for his employees as he expects the Napergate Man to take responsibility for his employees and his 16 year old daughter. There should be no double standards permitted in the City of Naperville !

I think it is disgusting that we have these double standards in our lovely town. I think it is disgusting that the old Naperville Sun and the new Naperville Sun never reported on the improprieties of this Kangaroo Trial. The Napergatians did not determine this was a Kangaroo Trial. The Federal Appellant Court, the State Appellant Court and the Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force determined this was a Kangaroo Trial and that the Napergate Man was "framed and lynched" by a City rated the second best city to live in, here in the lovely U.S. of A. They even ignored very clear video surveillance evidence that was even played for them at the trial.

What really makes this whole affair disgusting, the Naperville Sun has found it fitting to make a police chief who never took responsibility for his police officers in that Kangaroo Trial, a columnist in its newspaper. What does that really say about the new Naperville Sun? Assume they do not know what happened even though Editor Tim West worked for them at the time and continues in his gainful employment with the Sun! Do they not have a duty to spend a few days in Dupage County and review the lengthy court record if they do not want to believe the decisions of 2 higher courts and the IABTF. I believe they have that RESPONSIBILITY! And they are skirting it by putting priority on topics no one seems to care about like potholes in the road that we know the City of Naperville will fix as soon as possible as they have a great reputation for FIXING POTHOLES! No one denies or disputes that!

It is important that we all be honest and reputable. But is the Naperville Sun being reputable by allowing Chief Dial to be a columnist for its newspaper knowing he had a direct or indirect role in this Kangaroo Trial? Knowing he had direct or indirect responsibility in this Kangaroo Trial? There is no libel here! These are 3-0 and 2-1 Court Verdicts by Illinois and Federal Appellant Courts respectively that have both been published on this blogs site and in the Print Edition or Napergate ads. There was a very lengthy investigation prior to the Court rulings by the IABTF which accused some Naperville Police officers of behaving like fascists. The City of Naperville and Police chose not to dispute the findings. They had a right to sue the IABTF if they felt libeled as they have very deep pockets. They chose not to sue! What does that tell you about whether Naperville "framed and lynched" the Napergate Man or if they did not? I am only asking a question for the bloggers to ponder!

Here is part of the ruling as Ameena previously posted, written on stationary of the IABTF that can be found on page 11A of the Naperville Sun dated October 8, 1993. Have no worries, Debbie, you did not libel! Napergatians are honest people who are not spreading rumors. We also know both Sun Officials and Sun Attorneys vetted the below paragraph for accuracy and libel before allowing it to be published in its Print Edition.

See below:

*****************************************************************

"The penalties invoked by Naperville against this retailer have been ridiculously harsh and designed to put him out of business even for the first offense. The evidence seems to indicate harassment, discrimination, trumped up charges and testimony. The conduct exhibited by the government or city of Naperville , the City Attorney and some members of its police department is conspiratorial and is reminiscent of fascism."

******************************************************************

Once again, Blogger Debbie, I want to assure you that you have nothing to fear. Maybe you were not around at the time and not aware. But everything you said is very mild compared to the reality of what took place. I think "taxpayer" and "anonymous" are the ones who need to worry as we now know that they can be TRACKED DOWN through the Sun Computers if a libel suit was to be filed by the Napergate Man or the Napergatian Organization against them. Be careful my dear city officials in what you may say disguised as possible bloggers! We can track you down! Have no fear, Debbie!

I am sure the Naperville Police led by Chief Dial would never give a break to a criminal who committed a serious crime in 1993 in our town. Why should we Napervillians and Napergatians give our Chief a break? Does he deserve one after his employee Sergeant Greg Bell allegedly "abused his discretion" towards the Napergate Man and his lovely dog, Abby, that fateful evening?

Napergatians are not anti-establishment. We are anti-corruption! Two City Officials that we adore and respect are current Mayor George Pradel and former Naperville Police Chief James Teal who are/were both very pro-ESTABLISHMENT. We consider them Naperville Heroes just like we consider the Napergate Man and his employee Commander Dan F. Shanower Naperville Heroes. We don't discriminate like City Officials. We call it as we see it! So let us not try to make this ESTABLISHMENT vs. NAPERGATIANS. It is not! It is about rooting out possible alleged improprieties in our Naperville Police Department! This is what this Napergate Case is all about! Nothing more, nothing less!

PS. Moderator Lynch,

My husband's law partner who knows more about libel than my husband, agreed with you that my first post contained potential libel. I was wrong! He removed all the possibly libelous words. Thanks for your help in pointing them out and my apologies for my original letter which I was not aware was potentially libelous at the time of posting, especially pertaining to Mr. Brian Dugan as he has NOT been convicted as you CORRECTLY POINTED OUT! He is innocent until CONVICTED! I concur with you fully!

Host Ted and Moderator Jim,

I want to thank you both for publishing my above post. It took me an entire day to look up the facts needed to write, and an additional few hours for 2 attorneys to remove all the libel that was unintentionally contained in the original post. Essentially the original post was rewritten as you have witnessed. It was no easy task! Nothing I would want to try again!

I know you both reviewed my initial post very carefully before justifiably rejecting it for being potentially libelous. For me it was an ordeal to attempt to rewrite and obtain the legal help necessary to make it acceptable. After going thru this ordeal, I developed a new appreciation for what the Napergate Man must have gone through to get so many Napergate and non-Napergate ads published over 2 decades in the Naperville Sun, while not trying to cross the thin line in the sand to avoid libel and slander. It must have been no easy task. It is very understandable why so many people appreciate what he did and consider him a Naperville Hero!

I also want to commend the Naperville Sun for its efforts and diligence in keeping libel off its blog site! Thanks again to the Sun and Staff for the help they provided me!

Moderator Jim: No problem, M ickie, you obviously put alot of work into it. Thanks for your understanding.

Mickie,
I want to commend you for your latest excellent 2 posts on this Napergate Thread. As Moderator Jim stated so succintly "you obvioulsy put a lot of work into it." It really shows with your very carefully chosen words, which will apparently set the new standard at the Naperville Sun for libel. I can understand your new appreciation for the Napergate Man having to go thru what you went thru over and over again for over a dozen years.

I also want to commend the "new" Ms. Jane Q. Public who wrote the last letter on the old Napergate Thread. That one is worth revisiting. Much time must have been put into that spectacular post also. It appears to have got lost in the shuffle from the old to the new Napergate thread which seemed to have happened during the technical difficulties creating the new look of the Naperville Sun Blog Site which we are trying to get use to and navigate. I must say I like the NEW LOOK of this SUN BLOG SITE!

However can anyone tell me what those numbers on the bottom mean that we have to insert every time we write a letter? They are driving me nuts and I am lucky if I can get them right on the 3rd try! Maybe the Host or Moderator can explain.......

Host Ted,

I just got caught up on my reading. Once again it seems like Joe is trying to cause havoc on this thread and in your minds about bloggers and their identites. Unfortunately he sometimes seems to succeed. We tried to warn you that he is a bad apple looking for trouble but you never seem to listen to us since he is pro city and police! He in an embellisher just like many of them starting with City Manager Bob Marshall who does not know the differnce between 10k and a million. If he added 2 zeros to his numbers he may have been close to the legal fees it cost the city to fight the Napergate Man! That means he was off by a multiple of 100! And he manages Naperville...lol!!!

Many of us in Pembroke Commons and Huntington Estates along with the other 10 surrounding subdivisons are diehard supporters of the Napergate Man. Something the Naperville Sun is fully aware of. One of our favorite places to have a latte, socialize, and post a letter or two is the Dunkin Donuts located literally on the Spring Green intersection smack in the middle of these 12 subdivisions. The Napergate Man supported us immensely in our efforts to first beat back a gas station and than a commercial shopping center in Spring Green. And he is innocent of all these attacks being launched against him on your blog site...why would we not support a man who supported us and lives amongst us?!?!

Besides being a great activist he is an awesome neighbor and friend to all of us. And we all know him personally because he never stops walking his dog Abby especially when weather permits. No one that I know has seen him during this vicious winter! But hopefully we will be seeing him soon again. He talkes to everyone! About as a down to earth person as you will ever meet in your life! I understand he does not talk to the media but he loves talking to residents one on one or in group meetings of the past!

I have also blogged from DD and other coffee shops. I bet you could match my IP with those of Virginia, Debbie and others. I would have informed you earlier but I did not catch that post until this morning.

This time I am bloggin from my home. So I am sure my IP address will not be the same as Dunkin Donuts is or was! I never knew what an IP address was until it was explained by bloggers John Q. Public and "Here is What I Think Happened."

I think you guys in the Naperville Sun would be wise to ignore this Joe fellow. He has had no credibility from Day One. We rip him apart for you each time he posts and expose his distortions. He is never penalized or reprimanded. It is really time for you or Moderator Jim to ask Joe to stop playing games on these threads. He is acting like a child having a temper tantrun every single day. Can you guys buy him some diapers and a lollipop to quiet him down?

On a serious note, Mickie, that was really a well written and awesome post about the Napergate Man. I think it is important that you pointed out that Napergatians are not radical people by clearly showing the immense respect we all have for Mayor George Pradel and former Chief Jim Teal who are very establishment.

Of course the Napergate Man asked us to respect Mayor George Pradel despite his decision on Spring Green. He explained to us that we have to respect him because he is honest, genuine, and above all not a flip flopper. It made sense to all of us and that is why we all have this new found respect for our Mayor!

What really makes this whole affair disgusting, the Naperville Sun has found it fitting to make a police chief who never took responsibility for his police officers in that Kangaroo Trial, a columnist in its newspaper. What does that really say about the new Naperville Sun? Assume they do not know what happened even though Editor Tim West worked for them at the time and continues in his gainful employment with the Sun. BY MICKIE!

####################################################################

I want to say I was very impressed with the Host and Moderator for publishing this part of Mickie's fabulous post. To me this indicates we have turned the corner from the Old Sun to the New Sun.
It has been a rough corner but it seems like the Host/Moderator want to turn the EXXON VALDEEZ of newspapers and get with the real world of playing watchdog on our City Officials and Police.

While I can see that Moderator Jim has turned the corner and Host Ted is attmepting to turn the corner, I see Editor Tim West stuck in the crash of the EXXON VALDEEZ and unable to get off of the doomed ship.

If one followed Tim West's career for over 20 years, one would realize this Editor never wrote an article or editorial about the Napergate Man's acoomplishments in 20 years or more with the Sun. One can only assume this editor has had a 20 year agenda of pretending the Napergate Man does not exist! Why? Why? Why?

Since we trying to develop a new relationship with the NEW NAPERVILLE SUN, I would like to address this issue of Tim West. Why has he never done anything on the Napergate Man or the Napergate Movement in 20 plus years? There must be some kind of explanaton!

It is time for the New Sun to come clean with its readers!

With commonality like that it's only natural to ask if they are all in the same 'circle of friends'.

By Joe on March 13, 2008 8:46 AM

____________________________________________________________________

Joe,
I guess since you worked 18 hours a day during the Napergate Movement and Era, your question is very fair.

There are many circles of friends among Napergatians. The estimated 10,000 Napergatians do not obviously know each other. But many of them do know many others in what you correctly describe as "circles of friends." I am sure there is a "circle of friends" of the Napergate Man in Pembroke Commons. Another in Huntington Estates. Another in The Meadows Subdivion. Another in Baily Woods by his former liquor store and plaza. Etc. etc. etc. So yes, I would assume there are many "circles of friends" who commnunicate or e-mail before posting. That really should not be surprising.

The e-mail list started by the Napergate Man is available to many old timers whose hardware never crashed. One of his flaws early on was he used CC instead of BCC when sending his 1000's of supporters e-mails. He converted to BCC when someone must have complained you have to get thru 10 pages of names before you can see what he was writing to his supporters and told him how to use BCC. Maybe BCC was not available in the infancy of e-mail. Not sure! But his extensive e-mail system is one way Napergatians became acquainted with each other. Through his massive e-mail address system that contained thousands upon thousands of e-mail obtained from his petitions, I believe people connected. I am sure another contributing factor to his elaborate and very large e-mail address data base besides the 2 huge petitions, is all those who wrote him since his e-mail address appeared in most of his 200 ads published in the Naperville Sun. Mostly Napergate ads but I believe there were numerous others that were not titled Napergate.

So I hope this explains the 'circle of friends' issue, Joe! I hope you realize you are not the typical Napervillian with only one friend...HIS COMPUTER!

I AM REALLY OUTRAGED. WHO OWNS THIS NEWSPAPER? THE NAPERVILLE SUN OR THE NAPERGATE MAN?

HOW DARE YOU GUYS PUBLISH THAT FILTH FROM MICKIE THAT ATTACKS CHIEF DIAL? WHY IS HE RESPONSIBLE FOR 5-10 ROUGE COPS? IF YOU CAN CONTROL 190 OUT OF 200 COPS I THINK THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AN A+ FOR OUR CHIEF!

I guess blogger Mickie and the Napergate Man may be happy to know that a trial has finally been set for Brian Dugan for next January...about time! 26 years later! Something is wrong with our system of justice!

I commend Host Jim for not allowing Mickie to bad mouth Brian Dugan, even though he is probably 99.99% guilty. It shows his no nonsense approach to libel and shows how reputable and credible the NEW Naperville Sun wants to be!

By the way Mickie, very well written report. I agree with Host Jim you put a lot of work into getting that done!

Linda,

BCC was in the RFC for email exchange since 1982.

(Now I'll just sit back and wait for the DD crew to claim that's an embellishment too)

June, You obviously have not been following along if you think I am the one with embellishments or delusions or inappropriate behavior. I suggest you do a search through other threads for keywords like 'j*rk', 'scum', 'pr*ck' and 'conspiracy' and 'lynch'.

Again, I'll sit back and watch the DD crew call this a lie too and somehow try to insist I was the one calling people these names or calling enforcement of the law by multiple agencies at the state and local level as a 'conspiracy'.

They are only fooling yourselves now. Everyone else 'gets it' and has for months.

"Then there are blogs on other subjects where residents like to weigh in on Naperville's Finest - you know, the guys you call in the middle of the night if you have an emergency. Great comments there. If you believe some of the conspiracy theorists, you'd swear we live in a police state where there's a cop car lurking on every corner just waiting for you to make a wrong move."
Moderator and Chief Editor Jim

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I guess I am one of the old folks who still subscribes to your paper. I pulled the above quote out of Moderator Jim's editorial in today's newspaper after also tracking it down on the internet.

I interpreted this as 2 slaps in the face and on both cheeks of blogger Mickie. Mickie provided us with documentation. She is not a conspiracy theroist. She told you on exactly what date and page of your own newspaper to look for proof that a conspiracy had taken place against the Napergate Man. Did you bother to look? Did not the Naperville Sun vet that information about the proven conspiracy before publishing it? Who is telling us the truth....the old Naperville Sun or the new Naperville Sun. I believe the old Naperville Sun told us the truth and I would like to stick with the old Naperville Sun unlike everyone else who is being deceived to believe a real change is coming to town. I am sorry but this is really laughable!

The new Naperville Sun seems a little to wish washy for me. Kind of like the City Council on Spring Green when the Napergate Man was challenging them....flip flopping every other City Council meeting. Do you guys in the Naperville Sun want the credibility of our City Council which is as far down a dumpster you can go? I don't think one could even reach that low!

What it appeared to me is you wanted to play kissy face with Chief David Dial to tone down Mickie's remarks? This will get you nowhere with your bloggers, Mr. Jim Lynch!

The bottom line is there was a conspiracy that was committed and proven in courts of law and by IABTF(Illinois Alcohol Beverage Task Force) in 1995 and beyond! And Chief David Dial has never been held accountable in any role he may have played! And you reward him by giving him his own column! How shameful of the Naperville Sun!

What it looks like to me is that you are 2 faced. Praising Mickie here for her hard work but immediately running to the print edition to praise Chief Dial and his troops to also stay on their right side. Why not kiss both sides of a dispute day and night and never take a position or have a conviction? Where will that get you with the commuity as far as CREDIBILITY? I suspect nowhere! You would be the worse Judge in America, Mr. Lynch as you are unable to make a DECISION.

I believe Mr. Moderator that you are either in denial like Tim West or you are simply afraid of Chief David Dial who is a columnist and colleague in your newspaper. Which is it, Mr. Moderator?

It is time to speak straight to us so we can respect you like we respect the Napergate Man. I believe his ICONIC STATUS in this town is all because he tells it as it is. He speaks STRAIGHT!

To Marty: I think you're taking things a little too personally. My column was not a slap in the face to anyone. There are lots of threads on this blog and complaints and rants against the NPD are common, with many of them - in my estimation - being over the top. That's what I was referring to...not singling out Napergate bloggers.

By Outraged in Naperville on March 14, 2008 8:39 AM

HOW DARE YOU GUYS PUBLISH THAT FILTH FROM MICKIE THAT ATTACKS CHIEF DIAL? WHY IS HE RESPONSIBLE FOR 5-10 ROUGE COPS? IF YOU CAN