In Friday's (3.21) Sun, editor/publisher Jim Lynch wrote a column about presidential candidate Barack Obama's speech in Philadelphia about America's racial divide. In the column, Lynch opined that Obama was beginning a necessary conversation about race with all Americans, black and white. Is this conversation needed...will it transcend politics...will it help unite the country....will it help get him elected president? All questions that are yet to be answered. What do you make of Obama and his speech on race? If you didn't see the column, it's reprinted here in its entirety:
It was a campaign the candidate never wanted to be about race, but which was destined to become all about race.
That first became apparent several weeks ago as I watched the Mississippi primary returns come in. The electronic media was doing its incessant exit polling and I caught an analyst saying something like, "Obama, of course, won 91 percent of the black vote." Emphasis: "of course."
It wasn't long after that FOX news' Sean Hannity began banging the Rev. Jeremiah Wright war drum, night after night. You knew his producers were working overtime to get the footage of those incendiary sermons.
Then they had them and the video started to ricochet from one network to another until Sen. Barack Obama had a full-blown scandal on his hands. And it was all about race.
Obama's historic speech on the country's racial divide - made Tuesday, fittingly, in the city of Brotherly Love - received plaudits from both sides of the aisle. The words "profound, eloquent, moving" were all lavished on him from TV talking heads to editorial writers across the country, but with a caveat attached. Would the speech be enough to salvage Obama's wounded presidential campaign, given that he did not "disown" Wright, his longtime friend and spiritual adviser?
But precisely by not "disowning" Wright, Obama gave himself the credibility to make the speech of his life, a speech that finally opens the door for a conversation about race in America.
It's a conversation this country has not had in almost a half century and, if you listen to Obama's words, race and generation are intricately intertwined.
While denouncing the Wright's KKK- style rhetoric, Obama put his inflammatory oratory in the context of the minister's life and times.
"For the men and women of Rev. Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation, and doubt and fear have not gone away, nor the anger and the bitterness of those years ..."
And that's where Obama nailed it. He denounced the words, but not the man. Obama did not excuse Wright, but described him as someone we could understand, something a five-second sound bite could never do.
And given that Wright is 67 years old, I can only imagine what the American black experience has been for him. Perhaps memories of the real KKK, surely discrimination in the U.S. armed forces in which he served, and the bigotry aimed at the blacks he ministered to in Chicago certainly inform his view of America. That's the generational context. We can all denounce the rhetoric. That's easy. Understanding its source, as Obama explained on Tuesday, is a lot more difficult.
America will be a better place if Obama emerges from this controversy maybe a little bloodied but unbowed - if it turns this conversation about race into a full-blown discourse.
And then, people from my generation, one removed from Wright, might be better able to understand a few questions about race. Like, why in the year 2008 do we see so many cases like the one in Chicago last week where an innocent man spends 26 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit? And why is that innocent man so often black? Or, why in 2008 are there still restaurants in rural Georgia where blacks go in separate doors?
They're questions worth talking about. Obama has started the conversation
It would have been even better if Obama believed what he said. On Thursday in a radio interview, he gave his true view on race. When asked about his remarks about his grandmother, he said she was a typical white person who fears blacks. I guess white apologists like Jim Lynch will understand this view, but I view it and Obams's preacher's views as very racist. Having lost out on three jobs because of racial profiling, I have a hard time feeling any empathy for them regarding things that happened over thirty years ago. This is especially true when Obama and his wife reaped the benefits of growing up in American, yet stand behind her statement that they never had any reason to be proud of this country.
I guess some people are just easily dazzled by an eloquent speech.
Funny, I heard him speak of his grandmother as a person who was very typical of her generation. I would likely say my grandmother is a typical, black eighty-nine year old woman who is dedicated to her church and family. Typical as in common. Sounds as if some of Obama's grandmother's feelings are common, her fears and her affection for her grandson.
Have you ever been referred to in a derogatory way by your family because of your skin color? I find it curious how those whose life experiences are shaped by entitlement afforded to certain racial/gender groups in America annoints them with some all-knowing power to understand racism.
Mr. Lynch is correct in his analysis that courageous conversations about race strengthens our country. Bigotry is sooo out of step with world leadership.
Ken, is there a chance you may have lost out on those three jobs due to attitude profiling? Perhap during the interview process, your true colors were shining through.
Another Lense, what would my true colors be? You had to play the race card right away to make your comments seem valid. You immediately attacked what you automatically assume that I am a rich white guy who got entitlements due to my rich white parents. You also throw out the typical crap about having to be black to understand racism. Funny thing is, white people don't compare their color at family gatherings.
If that is common at black people's gatherings, who are the real racists and bigots?
Ken, honey, maybe you lost out on 3 jobs because you were not the best person for the position. Or Is it hard for you to imagine a Black man or women could ever be MORE qualified than yourself. And no we as Black people do not sit around at family gatherings and compare color. I know it eats at your very sole to see Obama running for president. I guess you thought that would never,ever happen in your lifetime. Imagine people like yourself working so hard for that not to happen. Wow, finally a Black man running for president, with a huge White following. Life is good.
I searched for a link that has the entire Obama speech were he calls for his dialog on race. The only thing I found so far was the WSJ 3 minute video of the parts of his speech were he talks about his pastor. WSJ.com should get the pastor parts.
The same goes for the interview where he made his "all white people comment".
While I don't think I will be voting for him, I would like to hear him out as more than a bunch of network news sound bites.
I don't think I will be giving Mr. Wright’s church my money for his promotional video that he is being flogged with. If someone knows where this is on line, I would like to see it.
As to the assertion that Black Americans are treated unfairly in the legal system; It would be interesting to see study that shows how many are arrested, represented by lawyers in front of judges and juries that are all predominantly fellow minority inner-city dwellers? Are they racist? Who are the majority of the victims of the crimes committed by blacks, blacks?
Would I rather be turned away by some freak occurrence at a restaurant in Georgia or be a white person caught in the Rodney King riots. I believe that approximately 40 people were murdered because of their skin color in the riots with few if any solved. If anyone has the exact facts on this one, I would like to see them.
Moderator Jim to Mark: For the full speech, just google "Transcript of Obama Race Speech" and you will see several lnks to get it in full. Thanks.
Obama Philadelphia speech up on Youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo
or type only Obama in the search field, it is the first video to pop
My impressions of the Philadelphia speech.
Mr. Obama is an educated and articulate politician; like most, he probably does not write his own speeches.
The begging of the speech, "on the road to freedom" somehow jumped over Lincoln and the lily white Northern States that fought on the side that delivered freedom. In the process (I'm rusty on my civil war numbers) hundreds of thousands of Northern troops fought along with newly freed slaves (who served in combat units) suffering horrific losses and slow deaths. No antibiotics.
There are no surviving slaves or slave owners today. Until the recent generation, there were few of any color that had much to pass on to the next generation unless it was a farm. The socialist death taxes may yet grab the farm too.
Mr. Obama speaks of his grandmother’s fear of black men; Jessie Jackson expressed the same fear when he stated that late one night that he was terrified by a group of teens following him down the street until he saw they were white. Jackson changed his demeanor and tune after publicly sharing this epiphany and I respect him for it. Crime is not an imagined problem and the people in jail are not political prisoners as Mr. Obama suggests in this speach.
Mr. Obama goes through the punch list of black American problems and lays little blame at the foot of the source, family destruction; Which IMHO is the central cause of poverty and poor performance in any race or nation. Beginning in the 1960s, government programs encouraged children without a father and punished work and independence. My understanding is that families with two parents and the same levels of education perform equivalently across racial lines.
"Corporate greed creates middle class need", until recently this could be dismissed as left wing propaganda. Clinton and Bush made it come true with wide open borders AKA cheap labor at any cost. The costs are substantial including national security. And yes, poor blacks (and every other color) are getting shafted as cheap labor is flooded in and low-skill manufacturing jobs are flooded out. Exploiting immigrants is the American way. Yes, they are coming for your engineering job next.
At the end of his well crafted speech, it sounds like he is appealing for more of the same government programs, continued wide open immigration and yes free trade AKA cheap labor. While Mr. Obama is a master at framing problems, he offers few new remedies.
Does anyone know exactly what indignities Mr. Wright suffered, is there a tangible list?
Mark, the point is there are no silver bullet remedies that our American public is conditioned to desire. Barack is not saying he has the remedy either.
The remedy is old-fashioned (lenghthy) conversations and listening. Not nearly as desirable as a solution that is accomplished in the time elapsed while a playing video game. Old wounds have left deep scars and a bandage will not cure the ills of systemic racism. We, as the U.S. will have to rely on US to embrace the mindset that we can be world leaders as U.S. citizens or we cannot. It's up to US. But that may require honesty, which hasn't been developed in an instant formula yet.
Well, African American Women in Naperville, all of you sound kind of bitter for people living in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago(By the way, how many of you did it take to write that racist post?). Once again, you have to play the race card to try too demean me.
I never claimed I was better than anybody, so you must have a inferiority complex. Fact is, I was told at each place that only minorities were being hired. One place the department head had already told me the job was mine and was over ruled by HR. The other two places wouldn't even take an application because of my skin color.
Finally, even though all of you African American Women assert that I would not vote for Obama because of his skin color, I personally consider character, not skin color. Obama's dealing with characters like Tony Rezko show his character. His further lies about his relationship with his church and former pastor showcase his lack of character. His lack of character and experience make it easy to vote against him no matter what his skin color is.
The only thing his skin color does is make it easy for people like you and your friends to claim racism if someone does not vote for him.
"Would I rather be turned away by some freak occurrence at a restaurant in Georgia or be a white person caught in the Rodney King riots. I believe that approximately 40 people were murdered because of their skin color in the riots with few if any solved. If anyone has the exact facts on this one, I would like to see them."
FWIW, this information is from Wikipedia. A total of 53 people were killed in the riots:
"The violence crossed racial and ethnic lines. The dead included 25 African-Americans, 16 Latinos, eight Caucasians, two Asians, one Algerian, and one Indian or Middle Easterner. Men outnumbered women, 48 to 5."
John Q, thanks for pointing me towards the numbers.
The most accurate documented count of the dead may be the April 24, 2002 LA Weekly article, "The L.A. 53", by Jim Crogan. Using coroner's reports, police records and interviews, he documented 53 people and how they died.
“
Gunfire killed 35, including eight people shot by law enforcement and two by National Guardsmen. Six died in arson fires. Attackers used sticks or boards to kill two others. Stabbings killed two. Six died in car accidents; two in hit-and-runs. One was strangled.
The violence crossed racial and ethnic lines. The dead included 25 African-Americans, 16 Latinos, eight Caucasians, two Asians, one Algerian, and one Indian or Middle Easterner. Men outnumbered women, 48 to 5.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_riots_of_1992
Death knows no color.
I think you all can agree on that.
Enjoy life while you can and don't allow stumbling blocks to get in the way. All our blood bleeds red and the maggots and worms have no preference. When you are on your death beds is this what you will be thinking about. I think not! Let people believe and do as they please. Life is about choices, right or wrong.
Get over yourselves.
The reason race is still an issue now is black people make it so. Asking for apologies from the government, screaming for more and more affirmative action rights. They refuse to raise themselves up by their own bootstraps and continually look for handouts.
So many years after slavery, the blacks can't move on. They hold themselves down through their awful rap stars, gangs and overall violence towards their own people as well as others and the inability to think with any kind of empathy.
Strangely, Boll Cosby is the one that has it right. He's seen beyond the "woe is me" attitude and pushes for blacks to further themselves.
"So many years after slavery, the blacks can't move on."
The problem is that the extreme discrimination against blacks did not die with slavery. The Jim Crow laws of the South, and institutional racism in the North, continued the organized oppression of African Americans for another century after the end of the Civil War. Jeremiah Wright and his generation are old enough to have experienced and been directly impacted by this. Is it really any wonder that this has had such a profound impact on his world view?
Stinks, any other reasons? Blacks are totally at fault for all that has occurred in American History? They alone are to blame for the racial climate? Wow!
To Stinks, Blacks are responsible for the racial climate in America, Are you nuts? We are still discriminated against every single day. Waiting for hand outs from the government? Lots of white people on government assistance, buddy. Until, you white man, have lived in our shoes, please don't pretend to be an expert, on what "Blacks" want or need. Thank you. P.S. I hope you are not my neighbor. I know the KLan is alive and well in Dupage County. That includes Naperville, as well. Oh,I must go I have to check to see how much cash I have on my link Card(Food Stamps)Do you think I could get a "Hand Out" to pay my 19k Naperville Taxes? obama for president.
Blacks are totally at fault for all that has occurred in American History?
Well, Another Lense, if you want to go back to the beginning, yes they are. The blacks in Africa sold other blacks they did not want there into slavery. If they had not done so, the only blacks that would be here now would be descendants of those first immigrants.
We are still discriminated against every single day.
How are you and your fellow African American women in Naperville discriminated against every day? Facts not rhetoric, please.
Ken, that would take too much time on this blog. I would have to write a book. I would love to "break it down for you" Any other ideas off line.
Who or what race is a fault for the condition of this country at this time or for anytime in history?
Nothing was earned, it was always taken.
and to my sisters, take the high road, no more responses. The color of this world is changing, its getting darker every day.
You know what I mean.
Discrimination to an extent is certainly brought on by blacks themselves. Every single day we see that it's okay for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. to be spouting out hate speech.
When we see white policemen arresting a black man on the news, all we hear is racists speech from the blacks throwing accusations of racism.
When we see time after time lower school test scores from blacks, the blacks say it's because of racism. Of course, the fact that the Asians do just fine doesn't mean anything, does it. Blacks do worse because because they've been discriminated against? Right. It's an unfair test. Right? It's rigged for whites. Right?
More blacks in prison relative to their population? Racism again. Let's not accept responsibility. No, no, it's just much easier to blame the system.
I'm just sick of it. Isn't there any sense of shame? At what point do people pull themselves up out of the muck and learn to take advantage of all America has to offer. This country wasn't built on handouts. It was built on hard work and ingenuity. Nothing was expected, it was earned.
BTW, to all the African Americans here, OJ was innocent, right? I mean really, he's black, so that must mean that blacks need to support him in his innocence right?
What a joke. If African Americans can't look past their own race to be objective, how is there any hope for non-blacks to do that.
Note to Mark [posted on March 22, 2008 10:14 PM]:
est. 498,000 died in the Civil War.
It was a potentially great speech, but as a political tool it fell short.
Sen. Obama never actually condemned the individual statements made by Rev. Wright --- he only couched his "disagreements" with them.
As a true "healer", he should have accepted the man as his friend and mentor, but individually identified each item and declared them wrong instead of blaming them on age, generations, etc. He hadan opportunity for a lay-up, and he tipped the ball out of bounds!
I've watched what I can find on Rev. Wright. Following are my impressions.
These are not direct quotes, but summations of what this guy is saying, not on one occasion but repeatedly.
"The US Government invented AIDS to exterminate Blacks"
"Jesus was a black man persecuted by white men (the Romans) like we are today"
"The USA of rich-white-Americans is who is doing it to us"
"Clarence Thomas is anti-black-female, and an Uncle Tom"
“inner city crime is caused by white people”
This stuff goes on and on.
A television movie/docudrama that was recently released (Naperville Library has a few copies) to video and should be required viewing for any voter is titled: Hitler: Rise to Power
In it we get to see the angry Jew hating Hitler as he climbs the ladder of power and all of his enablers. While standing in the beer hall (there is better beer at other places) located in the basement of the Munich City Hall, Hitler makes hate filled speech after hate filled speech blaming the Jews for the ethnic Germans' woes including going after their women.
If they ever decide to do a Broadway Musical (like the Wiz) version of the movie, Mr. Wright would be a natural as a black Adolph. He has the language, the hate, the platform and powerful friends. Mr. Obama could play one of the powerful enablers that believe that they can control the genie after they let it out of the bottle.
Watch the Mr. Wright movies and the Hitler move, Mr. Wright only has to work on his body language, but he is almost there today.
Mr. Obama asks us to believe that he can repeatedly sleep with dogs like Wright and Rezko, and keep on sleeping with them, and not catch fleas.
HOPE (Where Do I Fit In Todays America)
I just finished reading the Obama speech along with rereading Jims article. Growing up in a middle class white Chicago suburb with good hard working parents I always had the benefit of feeling safe, motivated, and a driven need to have purpose to my life. My parents instilled this drive into our very being at a young age. Thru example such as earning our way to a 2 week ymca camp by selling thousands of boxes of mints door to door, or being responsible for budgeting paper route money, the lessons never stopped.
Fast forward to the teenage years, things got a little weird. Mom became more ill with a mental illness she had been battling for decades and dad was at the end stages of alcoholism. Here is were the lessons learned at a young age paid off with substantial benefits. A) our community church became very proactive and dropped off food and general support on a weekly basis, This included forgiving grade school tuition for three children. B) The "Work Ethic" and unwavering hope that nothing was impossible motivated the three oldest children in our family to work at a local chinese restaurant. This brought in the necessary money along with food stamps and some limited help from the state to get us through this 6 year rough patch in our lives.
Fast forward again to the present. Could our family have succeeded as well if we were not white but living in black poor America. Take any innner city location were poverty is rampant, were there is not 1 but hundreds of families in need of not only food but a massive "DOSE OF HOPE". A neighborhood were there is no possibility of selling candy door to door to "earn your way to camp". Or no chinese restaurant to work at and take home the leftovers to eat. Or were the closest hospital is not a half a mile away but rather 8-10 miles away. Even with both parents in trouble we still had a loving family, many in the inner city struggle with 1 parent families at best. Schools look them up if you dare compare any of them to what we take for granted here in the suburbs.
From my perspective we will have to address how to instill not a work ethic, but the idea of HOPE in any of the communities that lack it now. That is the message I found most interesting about the Obama speech.
LETS FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER! TIME HAS COME TO USE THE DRIVE WITHIN EACH OF US TO CORRECT THIS ON GOING INJUSTICE.
Ken, that would take too much time on this blog. I would have to write a book. I would love to "break it down for you" Any other ideas off line.
I'll just take a weeks worth. Seven seperate events that happened on separate days in a weeks time. You said you are discriminated against every single day, yet when asked for facts, can only give rhetoric. I am just interested to see how who can afford a house that they pay 19k in property taxes on is constantly discriminated against.
In the way of casting notes for the Hitler play, no one is more qualified to play Bismarck than our current President Mr. Bush. This is not affirmative action at work.
*Economy brought to the brink of collapse
*The dollar (AKA American Peso) loosing value like a punctured balloon
*Fire sale of US assets to pay foreign debts
*Passage of all of the dictator enabler laws, at least Hitler had to do his own heavy lifting.
*He represent the Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party who sit around the fireplace at the Country Club arguing with rich liberals over who is more qualified to manage the little people.
Something that I heard in the speech which is evident here is that when talking about race it's hard to have a conversation that gets further then blame. Until we can honestly look at our own individual contributions to the problem the conversation is not going to get further. Hopefully these responses are not indicative of what most folks here really think. Wow!
Ken, I would really love to give you those 7 examples but I can't because of privacy issues. We can afford the 19k in taxes because we are "drug dealers", or basketball players. That what the majority of my Naperville neighbors think anyway. Thats one form of racism, the only way a Black person can "afford", those types of taxes. Right
By Growing up White middle Class. I really enjoyed your post. It was very well put. If I had said that, I would be making excuses for African Americans Again. As one guy put it. " The Asians did ok"? LOL
By Growing Up White -Middle Class America
Have you ever lived in a predominantly black neighborhood, what is the basis for your assertions that no one can make it in this environment without government assistance since you seem to rule out self help?
My aunt was one of the last white people living in her inner-city neighborhood, her new neighbors were kind, considerate, loving and looked out for her since her husband had long term cancer and she could barely walk. Her neighbors took turns buying groceries for her for years. This neighborhood was destroyed when the gangs and drugs arrived and like Al Quida sp. in Iraq systematically intimidated the neighbors, murdering people as examples and recruiting kids through intimidation and destroying the local economy and schools. Her neighbors could not allow their children to play outside the house. Every year the terrorism increased. Gangs kill fare more people in the US every year than we loose fighting in Iraq. 85% of the drugs come in across the wide-open southern border.
The last time I looked at the numbers, more black teens than white teens have jobs and work, why do you believe they are not working? If someone can find the numbers please post them with the source.
Like Iraq, until the terrorists are eliminated or neutralized, and safety restored, neighborhoods including the businesses and schools can not function. Who cares what color the terrorist are, do their victims?
A few wealthy/smart/etc. black people is hardly indicative of the black race as a whole. In this case, the exception does not prove the rule.
The following are news items that are worrisome to most people.
- A February 1997 report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, 56% of arrestees were "White", 42% were "Black", and 2% were of other races. The report additionally noted that "[v]ictims of rape were about evenly divided between whites and blacks; in about 88% of forcible rapes, the victim and offender were of the same race."
- A subsequent United States Department of Justice report which surveyed homicide statistics between 1974 and 2004 stated that of the crimes surveyed, 52.1% of the offenders were Black, 45.9% were White, and 2% were Other Races. Of the victims in those same crimes, 51% were White, 46.9% were Black, and 2.1% were Other Races.
And what is the population of blacks in the US? 12-13%.
To me, the above statistics demonstrate that there is a lack of discipline and morals in the black community. All one has to do is see the violence within the communities, the levels of gang activity, the rap stars that are products of these communities and that overt racism against non-blacks.
Once the black community stops making excuses and starts behaving in a more ethical and moral manner, then maybe they'll be entitled to more respect. But as things stand now, rightfully or wrongfully, the perception of blacks is that of gangbangers and thugs.
But hey, it's gotta be the black man being held down by the white man, right? Lets hand out those reparations!
I'm from East St Louis and I don't really care wither Obma is black, white, Red, yellow or any other color. I won't vote for him, if in fact he does win the nomination, and it has nothing at all to do with race - he has been in goverment for some time yet what has he accomplished? Good lord people don't fall for his speechs! Hilter was also a great speaker! Have we been corrupted by Bush and the people around him that we are blind to a bunch of words! I sure have to have more than somebody who is a good speech maker!
Moderator
Please don't let folks spew their offensive racists beliefs under the guise of trying to understand. This is very offensive.
To You Stink, Who did their study? A relative of yours. Did you read the Naperville sun today regarding a white man that grew his hair and grew a beard. He went from never being pulled over by the police to being pulled over because they thought he was from the middle east. Check out the article. I know you would find that strange and try to make excuses for the police department. You seem to be so bitter. I hope to God you are not my neighbor. You seem to know alot about the morals of the Black community. Have you ever lived there? Do you have any Black friends?, Or do you just consider yourself an expert on the Black Community. Or do you just go by what you hear in the media? What has made you such a racist? One thing I do like about you is that you are honest real modern day KKK member. The old Klan use to hid behind the sheets, now you hide behind your computer. Boy I bet you hate all of us "weathly Blacks in Naperville, with our big houses, and great jobs. I did not know they had any trailer parks in Naperville. Boy you learn something new everyday. Do you have a single or Double Wide?
AAW, you make me laugh.
I guess even with you big house and fancy job, you can't read the post. It said the US Department of Justice.
Turn on the TV and one learns all about the black community. And no, I haven't had a black friend in probably 30+ odd years, but I remember as a child having a friend in 4 or 5th grade that was. Throughout those two years in elementary school he seemed like a nice normal person. Then, when I got to HS, we ran into each other again. He'd become a very sullen troublemaker. I think he was expelled from school twice, as far as I know.
BTW, you'd be surprised at my job and income level. Don't think for a minute it's just the poor hillbillies that see through the thin veneer of your peoples' hatred. But from what I can tell it's okay for blacks to support hate speech from the likes of Farrakhan and Wright, but it's not okay the other way around. That to me is the most telling. At what point does the slavery issue get put in the past? At what point does the black community move on and try to better itself through more education and less Snoopp Dogg and Fiddy-Cent? Have you looked at the dismal college graduation rates of African Americans? Oh wait, that's because of slavery. That's right. I forgot.
Even though Obama is half white, the fact that his minister spewed this type of hatred through the years that Obama attended church tells me a great deal. I liken it to the indoctrination of the Islamist children that are taught to hate the west. What kind of feelings lay buried in the man's mind and heart?
McCain '08.
And, as the poster above said, what has Obama done in his tenure in the government? Nothing. Maybe he will some day, but until then he needs to step back.
If you hate white people so much, why live in Naperville? There are plenty of black suburbs around. Why not go live in one of those? Go back there and distribute the wealth.
To: Anonymous on March 25, 2008 2:49 PM
No racist beliefs here. Documented proof. Look up the statistics for yourself. Turn on the tube and listen to the black rappers and their lyrics of hope and spirituality. Hop on to youtube and watch Farrakhan deliver is uplifting messages to the masses.
If there were a million man march for whites, I bet there would be a million protests from blacks and whites alike. Yet, there wasn't even an eyelid blink almost when Farrakhan did his joke of a march.
Don't you find it interesting that when the Klan marches, there are common white and non-whites citizens alike who protest the Klan's presence. Yet, when black people march, and if a normal white citizen were to protest, I can't even imagine the violence or name calling that person would suffer.
Racist beliefs or is it racist reality that no one wants to look at because of the un-PC nature of the discussion?
To Stinks and Anonymous:
Below is the link to Viacom, the company owns MTV and BET who are the primary outlets for hip-hop AKA Gang Recruiting Videos.
What the videos show is that if you are a low life, you get the money, the respect and the girls. Just like 77 virgins and fame for a total nobody if you are willing to kill people. Same sales pitch.
The only thing black about BET is the name, check out the board of directors that pumps this trash out.
www.viacom.com
"At what point does the slavery issue get put in the past? At what point does the black community move on and try to better itself through more education and less Snoopp Dogg and Fiddy-Cent? Have you looked at the dismal college graduation rates of African Americans? Oh wait, that's because of slavery. That's right. I forgot."
Well, if the end of slavery 140 years ago marked the end of oppression of people of African descent in the U.S., this might be a good point. Unfortunately, though, systematic, legal oppression of blacks in this country continued for another 100+ years after the end of slavery, and the legal impediments to advancement were only removed in the mid-1960's. After 350 years of living in a country that has been the land of opportunity for everybody but them, would you really expect African Americans to overcome all of their demons in a single generation?
To address the concern brought up by Mark.Mark I did not grow up in a inner city or poor neighborhood. I grew up in a comparatively wealthy suburb about twenty miles west of Chicago in the late sixties early seventies. My family did own a three flat in the austin neigborhood (Chicago) in the early sixties. I am sorry you felt that I was making the assertion that 'No one can make it out of the inner city without a gov. hand out.
My main point is that we need to address the concept of HOPE before we as Americans can expect substantial progress on this front. Once HOPE is embraced, the pull yourself up by your bootstraps will take hold and have some great dividends. Mark your point on the disintegration of inner city neighborhoods is right on and in my opinion seems to start the downward spiral once the family unit is compromised,almost like a "family of another sort" (gangs) roars in to fill the void.
Regarding "African Americans Women in Naperville thank you for the compliment,I feel many readers on this post would not think you were making excuses for anyone if you said the same as I. Regarding the negative connotations of certain racist groups I can not comment on the possibility of them still here in this century. But I feel if we are going to move forward with helping all Americans in need we will have to focus on what each of us as individuals will do to further that cause.
I did not take into account the hatred that some may embrace within the speech given by Obama's pastor. Rather I gave those strong words the same low attention I gave President Reagan's words "Russia the Evil Empire". I put it in an "attention getting" context & nothing more.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
This is the official source for statistics regarding crime in the USA. US Dept of Justice. Anyone that wants to educate themselves with the raw data, here it is.
Prison Statistics
Summary findings | BJS publications | Selected statistics |
Also by BJS staff | Related sites
Summary findings
On December 31, 2006 —
– 2,258,983 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails – an increase of 2.9% from year end 2005, less than the average annual growth of 3.4% since year end 1995.
– 1,502,179 sentenced prisoners were under State or Federal jurisdiction.
– there were an estimated 501 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents – up from 411 at year end 1995.
– the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 4.5% from year end 2005, reaching 112,498, and the number of men rose 2.7%, totaling 1,458,363.
At yearend 2006 there were:
* 3,042 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States,
*compared to 1,261 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males
*and 487 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.
In 2004 there were an estimated 633,700 State prisoners serving time for a violent offense. State prisons also held an estimated 265,600 property offenders and 249,400 drug offenders.
Dept of Justice: How many people have gone to prison.
Highlights include the following:
* At yearend 2001, over 5.6 million U.S. adults had ever served time in State or Federal prison
* Of adults in 2001 who had ever served time in prison, nearly as many were black (2,166,000) as were white (2,203,000). An estimated 997,000 were Hispanic.
* If incarceration rates remain unchanged, 6.6% of U.S. residents born in 2001 will go to prison at some time during their lifetime.
* U.S. residents ages 35 to 39 in 2001 were more likely to have gone to prison (3.8%) than any other age group, up from 2.3% in 1991.
Stinks
I understand you as saying that what you know about Blacks is what you have primarily learned on television and on You Tube? Do you think if you become "friends" with a black person that perhaps your opinions may be different, not that you necessarily want them to be different, but just asking (not a rhetorical question)
The Klan has a history of violence that many people would not support and few other groups that march do. That is why women, and Blacks, all march with group identity pride and it's not an uproar to some. However I do see how in society that some groups can do one thing but others get more bad press if they do something that appears to be (or is) the same thing. The press is entertainment first, news second. That is what is going to get people to come back for more. The "truth" without spin is sometimes not as entertaining.
Racism does exist, it is a reality, but what do we do with it? How do we do something even a little thing to make it better or do we sit back and accept it? Blame, sure it might help some folks sleep at night but really it doesn't contribute much to moving forward if the goal is more understanding between the races.
Mr. Obama raised crime and punishment in his Philadelphia speech as does his friend Mr. Wright. So I have posted some of the info for a fact based discussion. Again, if you want more than network sound bites go to the source. For crime it is the DOJ
Victims by race from DOJ, you have to dig to find the numbers in a PDF or spread sheet only under demographics.
For age 12 and over Personal crimes inc: Rape Robbery assault. 2005 In total incidents:
Against whites = 4.2 mil rounded
Against blacks = 847 K rounded
Who is killing who?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
Although slightly less true now than before, most murders are intraracial
From 1976 to 2005 --
* 86% of white victims were killed by whites
* 94% of black victims were killed by blacks
To You Stink, never said I was a racist. Unlike, yourself I know there are good and bad in all races. Most of the White people that I have come across in Naperville, have no where near the hate that you have. I hope you are not teaching your kids this hate. No "Stinko" I will continue to live here in my big house and drive my big car and get under the skin of racist people like you. I don't listen to rap or the lyrics, like you do, but I know a lot of white people listen to rap,because the rappers would not be as rich if it were only Black Teens, and yourself, buying that music. Your story about your one little black friend that seemed to be "normal" until he got into high school was so very touching. I wonder with all of the serial killers (98%) white ( I know you are big on the numbers) did they seem "normal" when they were in 5th grade? Why do you think most of the serial killers are white? You being an expert on crime and all. No comment about the racial profiling. When is the next KKK meeting? You are funny to me as well. "Holla" Oh that is Black Slang for good bye. But you knew that of course, being such an expert on my community.
Wow. Between the opinions revealed in this post and the other post about a month ago that became a discussion about gay marriage, it's become quite clear to me that Naperville is one of the most hateful, racist, homophobic places I could have chosen to live in all of IL. I am simply stunned that my neighbors are so closedminded and ignorant.
I can't wait to move to a more tolerant place than this smallminded, elitist, bigoted, hatemongering town. It seemed like such a nice place to live, until I read things like the above.
AAW,
I know you have this great big fabulous house and car and all, but you must have really done poorly in your grammar classes. You can find copies of "The Elements of Style" by Strunk here: http://www.bartleby.com/141/ . Please read it.
At any rate, I never once said that I hated black people. That always seems to be the reaction by blacks and other ultra-liberal self-hating/guilt-ridden whites when someone that isn't black questions why blacks are so far behind other populations in this country.
It's really quite simple. These are the two facts that speak volumes:
1. Blacks commit more crimes as a percentage of the population.
2. Blacks have lower high school and college graduation rates.
Why is it that blacks refuse to listen to or critically examine these facts, yet are quick to scream racism at every turn?
I think the breakdown of the black family plays a large role in the failure of black society. Until the male learns to control his urges and the female figures out how to say "no" to the male, things will continue on the downward spiral they are on now. Wait, that's the white people's fault though too, isn't it? Must be because of slavery and the US Government giving black people AIDS. Sorry, I'd forgotten about that.
But, do you know what is most telling? Your actions. Even you tacitly agree that you'd rather live in a white community instead of one of many black communities that are out there. Why is that? I'm sure those communities could use the benefits of you spreading your incredible wealth there.
A simple few questions for which I'd like to hear answers from you.
1. Why is it that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crimes?
2. Why is it that blacks have such low graduation rates?
3. Why is the black family more broken than other families?
To: John Q. Public on March 25, 2008 7:54 PM
Even after all the Affirmative Action programs that helped them out, they still have been unable to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. They cry racism for their failings, yet reverse discrimination is rampant.
I've been involved in hiring committees at a couple of different jobs, and in each case there was pressure to hire more blacks--even at the cost of passing up more qualified non-black candidates.
Sometimes it's easier to just take the handout and not put forth the effort.
To: Anonymous on March 25, 2008 9:22 PM
I've never had the occasion to be friends with blacks. I don't go out of my way to be or not be friends with people. But, as I look around, I see that I'm in a profession with very few blacks. I work at a company with few black professionals. The activities that my children and I are involved with also have few blacks. I'm not opposed to forming friendships with blacks, but it just isn't something that's happened.
Racism does exist, but when a group that makes up 13% of the population refuses to take at least some degree of responsibility, there's little hope to constructively address the problem.
To Stinko. Actually, I was a English major in college,but my white teacher gave me an A because of affirmative Action. I thought this was a Blog. Thank you for the link. It was too difficult for me to understand. If you are going to refer to Bill Cosby, please learn how to spell his name. It is Bill Cosby not Boll Cosby as you said in your earlier post. I guess you did poorly in your spelling classes. Still, no comment on the Serial Killers? "Stinko", You know there were alot of interacial,"dating", oh I mean raping, with the slaves and all, I guess the white male could not control his "urges" back then.Also, it really did not make a difference if the Black female said no master,we were still violated. Are you 100% sure there is no Black Blood running through your vains? You are so at ease watching the minister, Farrakhan on youtube, talking about Snoop, and "Fifty Cents". You might be a brother. LOL This is my last post to you. You are a racist and that will never change. I would love for you to speak your views and beliefs in the heart of Chicago's Black Community. Maybe, at Obama's Church. You could give us some of your great tips on how to better serve our community. No, I was just teasing, you are much better hiding behind the computer along with your other Klan members. Have a great day. "STINKO"
To Moderator Jim
What happen at this blog ? Any suggestions!
AAF:
So sad for you then if you were and English major. Then again, I've heard English spoken by some of the teachers in the Chicago public schools. Pitiful.
Serial killers are an aberration comprising a small minority of the entire white community. Gang violence, thuggism and all the other nasty things are a daily occurrence in the blac community that is hugely disproportionate relative to the population at large.
It's sad that you still refuse to accept any responsibility for your people's inabilities and continue with the racist name-calling over and over.
Again. What is the reason for blacks' showing poorly in academia (other than your horrible English skills as an English major). No black blood in my "vains" for sure.
And, if you want at least a partial explanation of what is behind your communities shortcomings, read "The Bell Curve."
I'm still waiting on you to answer the very simple questions I put forth.
With your many spelling and grammatical errors, I can believe you received a grade you did not deserve while earning your English degree. You really should not correct other's spelling mistakes until you learn to spell correctly yourself. At least you finally realized that you are just one woman, and not many as your previous name indicated.
This may be a surprise to you, but many people could speak at Obama's church and give better tips than the former racist pastor did. I am sorry that you are so downtrodden in Naperville that you too have to show your racism. You may again be surprised to learn that everyone who does not share your views, views that you could not expand with any facts, is a racist.
Moderator Jim to Jim Jandick: Sadly, Jim, it was an experiment that was, frankly, not that surprising. I posted the column I wrote last week on Obama's speech and opened it up for discussion. I had hoped for an elevated, thoughtful conversation between the bloggers. That, obviously, didn't happen. The thread quickly became filled witht the negative stereotyping - both black and white - that Obama called on all of us to try to do away with for the sake of a better America. Next time, I'll know better. It's sad...thanks for the chance to explain.
Moderator Jim, why would you expect an elevated, thoughtful conversation on this subject? Considering all the hate contained in the other subjects, whether the subject is about schools or the arrest of the hallowed Napergate man, you expected this thread to be different? Heck, even Obama indulged in the same kind of stereotyping he supposedly disavowed the day after his speech.
The only surprising thing here is the low post count. Must not be important if it is not related to the schools or the Napergate man.
The stereotypes will never disappear until the parties accept their roles and responsibilities.
By Stinks on March 26, 2008 11:40 AM
"Even after all the Affirmative Action programs that helped them out, they still have been unable to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. They cry racism for their failings, yet reverse discrimination is rampant."
Stinks, do you really think that 40 years is a sufficient period of time to erase the effects of 300 years of oppression? The door was closed to African Americans for three centuries. I don't think it's too much to ask that it now be held open a little wider while they adjust to the idea that the "American dream" is now achievable for them, too.
ken, I must confess. I am really a Low Income Naperville renter. I don't have a big house like I said, I did, but it was fun while it lasted. I have always admired the African American Naperville individuals, that have been able to pick themselves up and get around people like you. 19k in taxes, I don't even make that in one year. I feel very blessed just be able to live in Naperville. I have made several new friends since moving here in 1999, both Black and White. 98% of the White People I have met have been very nice and caring. I will pray for you and your family, as well as Stinks. You guys seem to have a lot of anger and hate. Also, you and Stinks pointed out all of my "horrible English" mistakes. Sorry if I offended you. I can only hope that your were able to understand some of my thoughts.I guess you feel better now that I don't have that big house and car. Have a great day.
Moderator Jim I am sorry that some in this blog have become enraged.
As I have written in this blog, The message I came away with in the Obama speech is a message of hope. This message I took to include all Americans. I feel that race relations is an ongoing evolving process, not one that can be handled at the federal level alone. All people regardless of backround, skin color, or economic class must partake in this process.
Some on this blog have taken me to task regarding "people pulling themselves up by their Bootstraps". I suspect many including myself and my family are a firm believer of this concept. I am concerned though when this concept is used against people as an excuse. When I take a hard look at areas like Naperville and compare them to inner city environments, in my heart I know the deck is stacked against inner city residents. As a younger man I felt like all these people have to do is work a little harder and they can attain what I have. After all no one gave me my education I paid for it, No one helped me start my business-I did it by myself.
The problem with this thought process is none of us live in a vacuum, we are all a part of our environment. If that environment is one that hope is a constant there will be a great many success stories. If hope is not a constant but something that has to be searched for the odds of success go down substantially. As a young boy I was inundated with signs of hope from my family, our families church, and the community at large. When my father would coral us kids to go "sell candy" to get to a ymca camp it was an opportunity to show how hard work is a good thing. To go a step further when arriving at this summer camp there were kids from a full gamut of neighborhoods. This was probably my first exposure to kids that were different than me. I found what I took for granted many fellow campers could only dream of having. Unfortunately there was another lesson learned at camp, since I was very aware of the cost (selling all that darn candy) of camp it came out in conversation with a counselor that some campers from disadvantage neighborhoods came to camp for about 20% of what the advantaged kids parents had paid. I was probably about 10 at the time this revelation came to my attention. It took until my mid thirties to get away from the thought process that "why don't poor people just pull themselves up by their bootstraps" after all it worked for me.
The next chapter in the leaning process.
In my mid thirties it came to my attention that a good work ethic though important was not the only ingredient to be successful. The business that had served our family was changing rapidly and I had to take a risk and change with it to stay successful. With hope instilled into me 'That Can Do Attitude" we were quickly on the path to success. The greatest lesson learned at this new crossroads was a new concept called empathy. The business has stayed small but I have had the opportunity to meet many people from all walks of life. And the greatest gift to date has been the gift of empathy toward my fellow man.
Yesterday I had the chance to discuss the continual shootings that are prevalent in a Chicago neighborhood, with a friend who lives in that affected area. He informed me the area is struggling with competing groups of kids fighting, shooting, killing each other. From the conversation we had he explained that the crime had become so bad many students have not attended school for weeks. He left me with a prayer that his mother told him before she passed.
Son count your blessings if you like me are fortunate enough to hold onto your children until you become old yourself. Don't be angry if you lose one, but continue on with your lifes' work . The friend that conveyed this prayer to me exclaimed he was truely blessed for both his children had made it to adulthood. I thanked him for sharing a very personal part of his life with me. I wondered if this friend might have been one of the disadvantaged campers I laughed and shared different experiences with so many years ago.
As candidate Obama opens up his life experiences to the public I hope others can find the message of hope that rings true to me.
Sincerely Jim Jandick
The only thing I understand, AAWiN, is that you are a liar, and people like you are the people who make racial healing very hard to achieve. You would rather spread the hate than learn to get along and quit blaming people for your problems. This is true whether or not you live in a nice house, or in the ghetto.
AAW,
To me it doesn't matter what your income level is and what house or car you have. My thoughts still stay the same. America was (and still is to a certain extent) the land of opportunity.
People from all over the world come here to avail themselves of the opportunities. Why don't the people here already do the same?
To: John Q. Public on March 26, 2008 10:02 PM
Almost two generations have passed since Affirmative Action first became part of the American vernacular.
In that time period, can you show me a single trend of the African American community lifting itself up. 45 years may or may not be a long enough time, but I just don't see them helping themselves along. I hear excuses.
There are many immigrants to this country that came here due to oppression in their homelands, seeking opportunity, etc. Many of those immigrants had little to no money when they arrive here. Yet, they end up doing well.
To me, education is the tide that raises all ships. In this country, higher education is available to all. Yet, as I've said before, the black community has LOWER college graduation rates than before.
So fine, maybe 45 years isn't enough. But, when you start giving a lower qualified person a job over another more qualified person because of the color of their skin, that smacks of discrimination to me. And, when it comes time for my kids to go out and find jobs, you can damn well be sure that if some lesser qualified person gets the job over my child, simply because of skin color, that I'll be incredibly angry. Why should my kids suffer when they never had anything to do with slavery or discrimination.
I'd be ashamed to be accepting handouts, reparations, etc.
Stinks wrote:
"Yet, as I've said before, the black community has LOWER college graduation rates than before."
Lower than before what? I don't know where you're getting your information, but here are some statistics about African American educational achievement that I culled from various sites in a few minutes of searching:
81% of blacks aged 25 and older had at least a high school diploma in 2006.
There were 2.3 million black college students in fall of 2005. This was an increase of roughly 1 million (77%) from 15 years earlier.
From 1985 to 2004 the number of bachelor's degrees awarded to African Americans increased from 57,473 to 131,241.
In the 2004 academic year blacks earned 9.4 percent of all bachelor's degrees awarded. As recently as 1985 blacks earned only 5.9 percent of all bachelor's degrees awarded in the United States.
18% of blacks aged 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree or higher in 2006.
1.3 million blacks aged 25 and older had an advanced degree in 2006. In 1996, 683,000 blacks had this level of education.
The number of PhD's awarded to African Americans reached an all-time high in 2004, when 1,869 African Americans earned doctorates. This represented 7.1 percent of all doctorates awarded to American citizens. This too is an all-time high; in 1990 the black share of all doctoral awards was 3.6 percent.
You are right. My error. I was lookikng at data in 2001.
That being said, those are some pretty dismal numbers, albeit improving ones.
I wonder if those stats include all blacks or African American ones exclusively. I've heard that Africans that come to this country do well in education.
"Anonymous on March 27, 2008 6:38 PM" was me.
-JQP