I believe it really is cool that president Barck Obama has the top basketball players invited to participate inside the White House. Why not? While it truly is at present not just excellent for him, just since the oil leak is within the Gulf of Mexico or the war in Afghanistan. But he has an appointment for this kind of time and need, can make him even more fascinating. Basketeball is one with the most famous sports activities, it will be unreasonable if he did not take advantages of this attractiveness.

Stinks, I am so impressed that you have met your social security income tax limit at the end of last month. We might be neighbors after all, because this "Black Woman", have met hers already as well.
Have a great day my brother.

Re: Sofie job well done.

"Please, give me a break. Try to read a little more carefully. My point was that I never attacked that black woman personally, unlike her personal attacks against me."

So if AAW limited her "attacks" to generalizations about white people, the way you generalized about blacks, everything would be okay in your book? So I guess you don't take offense at anything Jeremiah Wright said, then?

"Until you know my profession and my income, you really shouldn't assume to say what bothers me or doesn't bother me. Here's a hint though. I met my social security income tax limit at the end of last month."

I don't think your income will change the opinion of anybody on this board one way or the other.

"Anyway, I'm done with this blog. Given what we've seen regarding the recent murder in Naperville, there's nothing left to say."

One hispanic man is murdered by a few black men and you declare victory and go home? Well, thank you for sharing.

Written by Poem by Sofie

Renew our mind is the word that God speaks
What should make us strong, only makes us weak
Victims of a society, Has taught us to hate
Can we turn it around, or is it too late
Slavery, KKK, even Snoop Doggy Dogg
Has become the focus of this hateful blog
It appears that the moderator had HOPE in mind
But racism and hatred is still keeping time
It pants as it runs to win this race
It cares nothing of love, but only disgrace
It's goal is to reach the finish line
It just won't fast forward, but only rewind
In the most awful tune, it plays a song
And it sings to my spirit all day long
Call me dramatic or whatever you desire
But Love and Hope should never expire
The facts, the statistics, It happened, we know
But "good" seed won't harvest, unless you sow
We keep comparing, judging, streotyping and hating
We keep bashing, laughing, pointing fingers and debating
It's good to voice an opinion and say what you feel
But don't pour salt on a wounds that are trying to heal

Please, give me a break. Try to read a little more carefully. My point was that I never attacked that black woman personally, unlike her personal attacks against me. I only addressed her comments regarding property taxes only after she made the comment first.

Until you know my profession and my income, you really shouldn't assume to say what bothers me or doesn't bother me. Here's a hint though. I met my social security income tax limit at the end of last month.

Seriously, don't resort to red herrings just to prove your silly PC point.

Anyway, I'm done with this blog. Given what we've seen regarding the recent murder in Naperville, there's nothing left to say.

John Q. said, are you implying that when a mixed race child succeeds, the success is all due to the non- African half of his/her ancestry? John Q. that is exactly what he is implying. Wow this guy is sick. Stinks also said, most of the kids from this union identify with the minority parent" Stinks in case you did not know that goes back to slavery. You know the one drop of that Bad Black blood situation. If you have a drop of Black blood you were considered the "N" word. Stinks you better check and double check your blood line. We could be relatives. Boy, I know the thought of that turns your stomach. You better do your research. Check and double and triple check. Have a great day my brother.

"Overall blacks commit more violent crimes. Hence, it's not a huge leap of logic to say that even among crack users, blacks will be more violent and dangerous."

Did it ever occur to you that crack users in general might be a more violent lot, regardless of color? It seems you are assuming that violence is somehow endemic to being black. Are black accountants more violent than other accountants? How about black physicians?

"Sure, there's advancement. But it's slow and I'm still not convinced that it's just blacks advancing."

The numbers I posted were for African Americans. Who else would be doing the advancing? As for the pace of advancement, if a 100% improvement over 20 years is slow, what would you consider fast?

"With interracial marriages on the rise, yet most children of such a union identifying with the minority parent's ethnicity, I would imagine some of those kids are skewing the numbers as well."

Aside from the fact that interracial marriages are still quite uncommon, I'm not sure why you'd even make this comment. Are you implying that when a mixed race child succeeds, the success is all due to the non-African half of his/her ancestry?

Stinks, Were the East Indians, Asians, and East European discriminated in this country for hundreds of years? Were they made to sit on the back of anyones bus? Could they not move in certain areas? Were they lynched and pulled out of their houses in the middle of the night, by members of the KKK and other racists groups? Were they told over and over they were not qualified to drive a city bus or dig a hole? "I'll just stop there". Yes, I have called you a racist and will continue to do so. Wow, the thought of the 19k in taxes and big car, really bothered you. This is the second or third time you mentioned that. One thing I do know is that most white supermacists have a big problem with wealthy Blacks. Mostly because we go against all your beliefs and stereotypes. We are still playing catch up and its going to take time. John Q. I will comment on your blog later. It was right on.

Another tough situation in the press today with the news of an excellent hospital closing in Blue Island. The corporate co. acknowledged that there were no takers even for the asking price of $0. The largest employer for the town gone. Reason: Too few insured patients within the hospitals market area. How about the thousands of unemployed hospital workers,wonder where their next medical insurance policy will come from. Well at least the next closest hospital is only 7 miles away, thats a cake walk in urban traffic. Maybe someone on this blog can direct me to a web site pertaining to "what happens to a community once disinvestment sets in". Thanks in advance.

Overall blacks commit more violent crimes. Hence, it's not a huge leap of logic to say that even among crack users, blacks will be more violent and dangerous.

Sure, there's advancement. But it's slow and I'm still not convinced that it's just blacks advancing. With interracial marriages on the rise, yet most children of such a union identifying with the minority parent's ethnicity, I would imagine some of those kids are skewing the numbers as well.

Well, Liebert, I see you follow the usual traits of the Napergatian cult of lack of reading comprehension, name calling, and belittling when you really have nothing of value to add. I'll just cover a few of the salient points you bring up while you libelously label me a whacko.

First, if you had any reading comprehension abilities, you would have seen that while I did get a notice for three tollway violations, they were glitches in the I-Pass system. I called, they validated that I had an account there, that it was their mistake, and wiped them off my record. I have also bet any one of the cult members $100 to meet me at a place of their choice and I will show them the proof. While all of the cult members, including you, are willing to call me a liar, whacko, etc., none are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Secondly, Liebert, even if I did post the names of the companies, you would insist I am lying. What good would that do? You also state that I would never be told that it was because of affirmative action that I was not being hired, which is funny because the companies had no problem telling me that. This was 20 years ago, when government agencies made no bones about affirmative action hiring policies. One of the places was a government job, another held government contracts. The third was with a big corporation that was also only hiring minorities. You ask why they wasted time interviewing me. The first two places I met people who needed positions filled and urged me to come and apply. After I did so, they found out about the minorities only policy. The third place was actually where my father worked. He, like you, insisted I was wrong about these policies. One of the few times he ever admitted to me he was wrong was when he found out his company was only hiring minorities too. Of course, Liebert, you will probably make your usual claims that this is not true with no way of proving that yourself.

Liebert, just because you and your cult only deal in half truths and lies does not mean that everyone else that posts here does the same. If you think your school yard tactics scare anyone away, you are sadly mistaken.

Stinks, we both know what a stereotype is. My point is that you've been using stereotypes---painting with a very broad brush, if you will---from your very first post on this board. You may not mean to classify all blacks as conforming to the the stereotype, but you certainly come off that way. And it didn't help any that it took several posts to get you to admit that, in fact, there ARE positive signs of African American advancement. If you object to being called racist, then try to show some balance, and don't hug so tightly to your pre-conceived notions when you're presented with evidence that contradicts them. And don't make statements about black crack users being more dangerous than white crack users unless you're prepared to back them up with hard statistics.

"me tone"?? I sound like a pirate . . .

JQP,

You aren't getting it.

A stereotype by it's very definition paints with a broad brush. My point is that it is because the community as a whole has presented a message through actions that in the end broadly represents them.

Let's take it at it's most basic level. The African American community isn't known for it's doctors, lawyers and business.

As for AAW, I'm talking to her about her community. I'm not speaking about her on a personal level. In case you didn't notice, I didn't address the fact that she does/doesn't live in a house with 19K property taxes. I don't care. Please point out a post where I said the she herself necessarily believes/follows any of the things I've mentioned.

Also, read carefully and you'll see that she's thrown out all kinds of pejorative comments about me personally, but I haven't reciprocated. The only time I addressed her personally was when she brought up the 19K tax and big car comment. She opened the door for a response there.

If you read through the posts with your PC goggles off, you'll see that me tone was much less confrontational and a lot less prejudiced than hers.

Stinks, there may be reasons for such stereotypes, but when one assumes, as you seem to do, that ALL members of a group are a certain way because of the stereotypes, then you are prejudiced. Why is it, for example, that you ask AAW?:

"Once you get rid of and stop supporting people like all the famous "reverends" in the black community, then maybe there will be credibility in your words. But, shakedown artists like Jesse Jackson hurt your cause much more than you can imagine. And the unremitting support of criminals--as long as they are black--also hurts credibility for your people. OJ was innocent right? What a joke."

When did AAW indicate in any of her posts that she agrees with any of these positions?

Fine. My point was that there are stereotypes and there are reasons for such stereotypes.

Stinks wrote: "I'll just stop there."

I really think that's your best course of action right now. Just stop. If I showed some of my Asian friends your comments they'd go ballistic. Even positive stereotypes can be offensive if they result in being pigeon-holed and expected to act and be a certain way.

Once you get rid of and stop supporting people like all the famous "reverends" in the black community, then maybe there will be credibility in your words. But, shakedown artists like Jesse Jackson hurt your cause much more than you can imagine. And the unremitting support of criminals--as long as they are black--also hurts credibility for your people. OJ was innocent right? What a joke.

Call me a racist or whatever, but the fact remains that this country provides plenty of opportunity to succeed. One has to want it. Your community does no want it. Black society is mired in gang and drug violence and the glorification of such things (including overt sexual denigration of women) by all your rap musicians who exert a wide influence on the kids of your community.

Unfortunately, we see the bleed-over into kids not part of the black community. It's reflected in the "urban" dress of many non-blacks and their black wannabee type of behaviors. This is what bothers me. If you people don't want to end the violence within your community, so be it. If you want the likes of 50 Cent and Snoopp Dogg glorifying violence against police or their pimping, etc. then keep it within your community.

To be a racist, I'd have to care about race. But I don't. I care about my kids being raised in a way that's free from the influences of things I consider unsavory.

Let's see, what are some ethnic communities known for?

Asians - Music, intelligence, medicine
East Indian - Intelligence, business success, medicine
East European - Hard work, good tradesman

I'll just stop there.

By Anonymous on April 2, 2008 5:43 PM

By Paul on March 31, 2008 5:43 PM

I would really like to see where you came up with that 300-500 number Paul. I know that is the number the Napergatians are claiming, but really, there are not 300-500 different names on those blogs, just the same handful who claim to represent the majority of Naperville citizens and a few mults posting as anonymous to help raise the count.

________________________________________________________________

Anonymous,
If you go thru the 14 Napergate Threads you will find at least 300-500 Napergatians who blogged in support of the Napergate Man. Someone counted 80 on the library thread alone before it was archived. It ended with a few more. I believe it was Joe who did the count at the time.!

No one is willing to do the actual counting for all the threads as it seems like an insurmountable job!

Since you are questioning, why don't you start counting. I think you will find Paul to be very accurate.

Most Napergatians write one or two letters and move on with their lives.

Not the same as Joe, Ken, T.B. and few others who live on the Napergate Threads bashing the Napergate Man and Napergatians day and night.

I have rarely seen a Napergatian post as Anonymous. Almost never! They take pride in supporting the Napergate Man and most of us know each other by our first names! Most of the Anonymous are City Bashers who can not come forward with a real first name.

Most Napergatians provide real first names that help us identify each other. Most other bloggers on these threads use phrases and cartoon characters except for Joe and Ken who also use their first names.

Moderator Jim can track an Anonymous person who also blogs using a first name from an IP number. So if there are doubles he would know about it. No one is going to fool the Naperville Sun with pretentious numbers as they can track IP numbers and have!

Last time Host Ted said there was a double it turned out to be 2 girls bloggin together from a Dunkin Donuts and there was no double. One girl had actually written 2 posts under her same name which strongly indicates she was not trying to be 2 people. Can't remember their names but Host Ted posted about them!

The Napergatians were able to send enough real bodies to the polls and sweep an election one time. They checked on us at the poll booths to make sure we were real. There were no doubles to the best of my knowledge.

The Napergate Man submitted a sworn authenticated petition to the Illinois Appellant Court with the 3500 Napergatians on it. Real people, I assure you.

A few years later I believe he collected another petition for Spring Green with either 3340 or 3380 signatures of Napergatians that he submitted to the City Council. Host Ted posted the exact number on an early Napergate Site. Be assured if the Napergate Man ever committed any fraud such as faking names on a petition, he would be thrown in jail immediately as he lives under the police microscope in this town. He is watched closer than any other citizen in town. Just take a look and read the Napergate Threads with over 1200-1500 posts to learn what they do to him and how closely they watch and monitor him.

Most of the posts on Napergate Threads are extremely long and filled with passion. If someone was trying to pad numbers they would be one line posts and be 20,000 posts instead of 1200-1500 long posts.

Some posts by Napergatians have been literally chapters. Ask poor Moderator Jim or Host Ted who had to read each and every one of them. Today I believe an old friend or acquaintance of his posted a very long post on the latest Napergate Thread. Check it out and try to learn about the Napergate Man and his movement! You must be a newcomer to town to know so little.

Only a very small percentage of Napergatians actually blog as it is a relatively new concept that is barely a year old. Give it some time and you will see thousands!!

====================================================================

PS. In the last 24 hours I recognized these names of Napergatians.

1.Tom
2.Ellen
3.Paul
4.Sarah
5.Kimberly
6.Liebert
7.Virginia
8.Cynthia
9.Susan
10.Patricia(myself).

When the Moderator has a live Napergate Thread, you can see 30-50 Napergatians bloggin per day.

Other names that come to mind because of numerous blogs over long periods of time are Diana, Mickie, Randy, Melissa, Maryann, Marilyn, Cindy, Caroline, Ameena, McFarland, Marshall, Elizabeth, Marybeth, Nikki, Rachael, Deanna, Beilen, Lucas, Bob, Rick, June, Jenny, Huntington Estates Lady, Farmstead Man, Resident of the Meadows, Eric, Blake, Ryan, Robert, Martha, Terri, Dor, Adam, Walter, Ben, Andrew, Vicky, Herbert, Scott, Roger, Naperville Lawyer,, Betsy, Vanessa, Victoria, Christine, Christopher, Mike, Sarah, Ronald, Henry, Ellen, Rebecca, Bethany, Loretta, Margaret, Connie, Charles, Confused in Naperville, Tyrone, Howard, Gary, Rita, Tawfiq, Norma, Lillian, Rudolph, Brad, Andrea, Marty, Sharon, Kathleen, Todd, Debbie, Amy, M.Powrie, Chris, Linda, Lynn, Chuck, Gail, Jay, Becky, Samantha,Laura, Sherry, Nicholas, Gigi, James, Jessica, Carrie, Deeback, Claire, etc. etc. etc.

====================================================================

OK, sorry I got carried away anonymous. I got 25 names from memory and the other 80 plus just by looking at the last 2 threads that had 750 posts that I scrolled quickly through. There are probably another hundred names I missed.

Check the other 12 Napergate Threads and you will find a few hundred more. Very few Napergatians make it their life to blog as Joe, Ken, and T.B. I suspect they have jobs and lives. Since there are so many Napergatians I suspect there is no need to repeat what others are saying.

I decided to do some quick research since I have heard this question/allegation often. It took me about 30 minutes. It seemed non-Napergatians are so lazy these days they refuse to get off their butts to do anything but level false allegation after false allegations. I think they live on these blogs for their 15 minutes of fame that never seem to end.

Diana did tons of work when most of us could not find the latest Napergate Thread that was not archived as was the pattern in the past. Ameena posted Napergate ads for us before she left us to concentrate on writing her book about the Napergate Man. Mickie did tons of work with the help of her husbands law firm. Bob wrote an Amazing Post! Randy did too! And the list does not end!

Napergatians have promised to do an FOIA on the NPD regarding the downtown incident. All they want is a promise from Moderator Jim that he will post. No one wants to do this kind of work if it is not going to be published for all to see. Otherwise the rumors will continue to run rampant by the 5-10 city supporting bloggers who can not even believe proof when they see it.

Finally, I think Mr. Anonymous made a fool of himself by stating there is only a HANDFUL of us. Of course that is why he made his allegation as Mr. Anonymous. He did not want us to know who the FOOL really is! Burt Moderator Jim can identify him from his IP number when he uses his first name or other identity, so at least one person will know he certainly is a FOOL!!!

May I ask a general question? When have I EVER said that I was looking for handouts? No, anonymous, this AAW would not paint you as a racist. Please don't put words in my mouth. I will say this again. ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR HANDOUTS. WE DO NOT ALL THINK ALIKE. Do all White men think alike? I have said over and over people like Stinks and Ken are beyond racist. They are white supermacists. Wasn't there another race of people that were given reparations? Stinks you are a good research man. Could you please find that out for me? That is your homework assignment for tonight. Jim J. you are the last person that is on this blog that I think is racist. Stinks don't ever refer to a group of Black people as "You People", you must be pretty old. My father told me that whites use to refer to Blacks as "you people" and he is eighty. Stinks as you know, poverty breeds crime, broken families, and more violence. If you would ever go through some of the Black middle class and affluent areas that is not the case. Oh my God, that would never happen. I know you would not lower yourself to drive through a black affluent area. I think you might be surprised to find that we have the same high standards and morals that you are so proud to have. Stinks, I know you wish you were back in the early sixties when we could not even look you in the eye. It was yes Sir and no Sir, mister boss man. I'm sorry, that is not the case. I can tell by your rage you are one bitter white guy. You are one sorry piece of work. Have a great day.

By Paul on March 31, 2008 5:43 PM

"For all those who may not know, Ken is considered an idiot by 300-500 Napergatian bloggers who blogged with him."

I would really like to see where you came up with that 300-500 number Paul. I know that is the number the Napergatians are claiming, but really, there are not 300-500 different names on those blogs, just the same handful who claim to represent the majority of Naperville citizens and a few mults posting as anonymous to help raise the count.

Jim,

Well said.

From my perspective I think the opportunities are out there for the taking.

Re; Anonymous,
I am glad that you have had the opportunity to have friends of different backrounds, I also am not comfortable with folks that feel they are entitled to handouts. But handouts are not given out as much as I feel some suspect. America was and is still built around the idea of hard work. Many in the younger generations will have to work much harder than the boomer or later generations to accomplish the same. In the years to come we will have to address the disinvestment in this country and how it affects all of us, but is most acute in the poorer areas of our country.
The comment "If wanting people to take responsibility for their own actions and contribute to their own success is racist, then yes, I'm racist" is surely not racist. On that note maybe a follow-up comment of " Let us insure that all in our nation are given the opportunity to work hard and gain compassion towards our fellow man so we can become a successful hopeful nation" would be a positive statement that most would concur with.
Maybe our views differ on the opportunities afforded each of us in this country. From my perspective it would seem that there is still much work to do to give all people the opportunity to work hard.

Jim Jandick,

I have plenty of friends of various ethnicities and whatnot. Even though AAW would paint me as a racist, I am not. But, I don't have tolerance for those that sit back and whine about the system and ask for handouts. Simple as that. And there's a group that I think is the epitome of that.

America was built on the backs of those that worked hard to achieve great things. The horrible decline in morality and standard of living in this country is at least partly to be blamed on the feeling of entitlement that many have. The hard work ethic of earlier generations has been lost to the "you owe me" attitudes of many of the newer generations.

If wanting people to take responsibility for their own actions and to contribute to their own success is racist, then yes, I'm racist.

To "Stinks": I deleted your last comment because I don't have the time to follow up on your online research and verify your wikipedia citing.....just explain what it means and I'll decide itf it's fit to post. By the way, your posting prior to that one I let go...but it was borderline racist. Watch it.

Ken wrote:

“John Q., if the natives of Africa had fought the slave traders, there would not have been slavery. I can't state it any more plainly for you.”

Interesting statement. First off, I’m willing to bet that the average person about to be sold into slavery was not a willing participant in the process, and did resist to the extent he/she could. But even if not, what of it? Are you arguing that the victim shares responsibility in the crime if he/she doesn’t resist?

“It is relevant because their ancestors who sold them out are as guilty as the people who bought them.”

If by “ancestors” you really meant fellow Africans, then I agree with this point. But so what? Most African Americans are descended from the slaves, not from the African slave traders. Are you saying that the slaves bore some responsibility for their enslavement because they had the same skin color as some of the people who sold them into slavery?

“You talk about the morals of the white slave owners, yet fail to mention that slavery was accepted world wide at that time (and truthfully is still currently accepted in some countries).”

Sure it was, and is. And it’s important to view things in historical perspective in order to understand how Thomas Jefferson, for example, could keep slaves, yet still write of Man’s inalienable right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. But historical perspective does not turn wrong into right.

“If President Lincoln had not needed to win a war, it may have taken another 100 years for people to view it as wrong.”

No, by 1860 there were plenty of people in the U.S. and elsewhere who thought slavery was wrong. Slavery had already been outlawed in the British and French empires. Morever, it was the ascendancy of an American political party whose unifying element was opposition to the spread of slavery that brought on the Civil War in the first place.

“Just because you chose to ignore history and I don't does not make me a racist.”

I’m not ignoring history. In fact, my knowledge of history and it’s relevance to the present is quite well-developed---well enough to recognize that the points you’re making are red herrings, even if you don’t view them as such.

“Taking my statement about affirmative action allowing less qualified students into college out of context does not make it less true.”

Well, I didn’t really take it out of context, since the point you made pretty much stood on it’s own. But I agree that affirmative action does result in a different standard being used for African Americans and other disadvantaged minorities than is used for whites. I just happen to believe that this is a necessary corrective given the background of centuries of discrimination that these people are coming from. FWIW, I think reasonable people can disagree on this point, and that doing so does not automatically brand one a racist.

“You ask if I can prove that they don't get an easier grading curve. Can you prove that they are graded equally? Seems that a lot of athletes graduate with a wink and a nod, how do you know minorities don't?”

Of course I can’t. I assume it’s true until I see evidence that it is not. Innocent until proven guilty is the American way, after all. But if you want to play by those rules, how do you know whites aren’t getting a free pass on grades in college?

“Judging people who are unafraid to ask questions about racial matters in a race discussion as racist is the reason why there are so few honest discussions about race.”

I agree. But raising doubts about the validity of the statistics I presented without any evidence to support your suspicions does make me wonder what your motivation is. Of course, it could just be a stubborn refusal to concede a point---something which most of us are guilty of at least once in a while. ;-)

Re: Anonymous 3.30.08 6:10
Thank you for your compliment, my concern regarding inner city districts affecting the predominant poor community is the lack of all services that many of us take for granted: schools, hospitals,work places,food stores, etc. This is part of the problem that needs to be addressed. As for some on this blog that have differing opinions, I may not agree (and even at times become angry), but this is America where we can all voice our opinion. If it gets too ugly we have a moderator to bring it down a notch.

Such a shame some have not had the chance to be friends with someone of a different backround. Statistics do very little to inject compassion for our fellow neighbor, for that, one has to get out and meet with people. Once this is accomplished long held beliefs can be changed almost overnight. Anger and malice can be overcome sometimes with a smile and a handshake.

African American Women on April 1, 2008 6:51 PM

Ms. AAW,

As Paul, I was catching up on my reading on the Napergate Thread after I found it again. If this is the same Ken from that thread this guy is a wacko. He gets a RISE out of what he is doing and saying. I suggest you ignore him as a way of stopping him or he will continue to get his RISES.

The Napergatians made a Barbie Doll out of him and shred his credibility to smithereens. I do believe this man makes up stories to get RISES.

There is a challenge for him to put up his notice of suspension for 3 toll violations on the Napergate Thread. He has not met the challenge. He ran away like a PUSSY CAT!

This Barbie Ken even forgot he stated in an earlier blog he never ran a toll both. He forgot his lie and came back and said he ran the toll 3 times and got a notice just to prove a tollway connected girl was not credible because she said they don't usually go after you unless you have 4 or more. Imagine, making up a story to prove someone is not credible! What a loser of losers?

I challenge him to provide the names of those 3 employers he said rejected him because of affirmative action. He probably made that up, too! Even if it was true, they would never tell him it was because of affirmative action.

He probably lost out to better candidates. If the employers were only looking for African American or minority candidates as he would want us to believe, why would they waste their time even interviewing him.

Again just like he fabricated on the Napergate Thread, he is fabricating here. His only defense is calling the Napergatian Cultists.

Sorry buddy, but the Napergate Man and the Napergate Party are not a bunch of cultists! They are a respectable Naperville Party that got their entire slot elected in one election. Yes, all 4 out of 4. That does not sound like a Cultist Party to me. They obviously have respect amongst their fellow Napervillians who would not be supporting a Radical Cultist Group!

In other elections, the Napergatians got at least 2 or 3 out of 4 elected. In the current City Council 4 have Napergatian roots, support, endorsements, or whatever you want to call it.

As Paul said, Ken has no credibility. He is nothing more than a male version of Barbie Doll...an air head if you will! Just throw him against a wall, Ms. AAW and try to break him! He will SHATTER!

Interesting. Hysterics and name calling. Yet, not a single answer from you.

Here, let's ask the questions again and maybe some extras in there as well.

1. Why do your people commit more crimes relative to their population?

2. Why is it okay for your "ministers" to spew hate speech and it's not okay otherwise.

3. Why does the black community condone the violence, racism, and hatred the rappers spew forth?

4. Why do you people have more broken families?

I'm sure the parents of the people that killed the Naperville man weren't too proud themselves, now were they? If you want to get into a battle of who kills whom, reread the stats again before opening your mouth.

To Stinks "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". I guess I need to check out the hundreds of White Supremacist web sites, that are available in the white/racist culture. "They are all ememies to me and my way of life". "To protect ones family and my children, a person has to know where and how such dangers arise". Did I get it right? Could you send me a list of those sites? I want to keep myself prepared, especially if I run into you on the streets. This post is only intended for Stinks and Ken I want to make that clear. I do not want to offend anyone else. I was just quoting this fool. Jim, moderator you did not post my list, but hopefully you see why I posted that. Stinks, I am so happy that you have such perfect children. You must be proud. I am glad you know what they are listening to and doing every minute of the day, even when you are not around. I am sure the father of the Kid that SHOT UP Northern Illinois University, thought he was perfect as well. I know his professors did. He was also very smart with those good grades you talk about all the time. Have a great day.

Fine. It's just very interesting is all, considering what a low percentage of the population both parties are (6.2%).

To "Stinks": C'mon...you know I can't post that. Please knock it off.

Nene,

And I'm saying any different how? Not once have I said anything about color, ethnicity, etc.

Twisting what others say to fit your own agenda is hardly enlightened. Or, maybe you didn't even bother to read and make the typical knee-jerk that all the PC crowd seem to make.

By the way, what truth have I heard? I and others have put out facts and substantiated our positions. You people have ignored them. Address the issues. I'd be fired from my job if I responded in the manner you people do.

I applaud you Sofie! I believe no matter what you say nor how much you love, people like Stinks will never open their eyes to look beyond color, shape, size, gender, etc. unless their heart and mind changes. At least I do not stereotype and say to my children to stay clear because of those factors. I don't care about the HARD FACTS, the thing is, I teach my children to love, this day, no matter what, and to judge only based on ones "character". Would I tell my children to steer clear because of one's color or "sterotypes" that one has put upon them....NO. Would I tell them to steer clear of one who tries to sterotype them and have hatred towards them because of their color, size, shape, etc...YES.

I teach my children that if they don't like you "move on" because for every ignorant person there are twenty that are not. I always tell them "DO NOT treat anyone like you don't want to be treated" Its as simple as that. If you ever mistreat them, they will move on and become stronger, because people that are narrowminded and has narrow views of the world, does not matter to thme and WON'T make a difference in this world.

So everyone you can talk til your blue in the face, but if someone wants to remain ignorant so be it. They have heard the truth and you have done your job. If they believe it or not is up to them. I say "Let's not waste anymore time with ignorance and move on" Just like the moderator was trying to do.

A bit melodramatic aren't you?

Again, I never said anything hateful. I presented hard facts and data. Make of it what you will.

Stinks, everyone has a right to identify those things that they feel are a threat to them and their family and steer clear from them. I applaud you. But I think it makes you feel important to sit behind your keyboard, ready and willing to type words that burns in the heart of humans, A human, just like you, if I might add. You love the response, it's probably the only attention you get. You are probably one of those guys that enter into malls and schools and shoot up people, because no one ever loved you or gave you any attention. So here we go, today on April 1st, how about that, April fools day and some may call me a fool, but if you never got any love, I'm giving it to you today. I love you inspite of who you are and what you write. I love you because God told me too, if you have a problem with that, send him a blog. Do I feel angry with you, yes I do, it hurts to hear some of the things you write. We all want to save our children, I pray to God that my concerns will never be, my four and no more. It hurts, Stinks! Does that make you feel any better. I hope not!

AAW

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." - Sun-tzu

Farrakhan, rap music, gang-bangers, etc. are all enemies to me and my way of life. To protect one's family and my children, a person has to know where and how such dangers arise.

In my case, we don't watch MTV, we listen to only certain types of music, we don't expose our children to television shows that glorify what rap/black culture espouses and we stay away from areas/cities that expose our children to physical and visual dangers.

And, we also teach our children right from wrong, how they need to conduct themselves in private and in public. Of course, you would have no idea about all this stuff since the black community suffered from slavery for so long.

In short, we each our kids all the morals and rules of conduct that most expect in civilized society and to steer clear of those questionable elements to which they may from time to time be exposed.

Weird. My comment was certainly lighter than yours.

Stinks..you stink. Lighten up sweetie, it's gonna be alright! When the recession hits, and you're not worried, can I come and live with you. I'm black, but I'm not a cannibal. By the way, I'm laughing! Love ya!

A bit of an over reaction maybe?

The recession, if you really want to call it that, isn't going to impact all of us in the same way. So, I'm not planning on worrying about it.

Get over yourselves- Is the right meassage!
All of you make me want to throw up. Everybody wants to fight, because there is nothing else interesting in your lives to keep you occupied with time. Where does it get any of you. You can go back and forward and beat at each other, but what does it solve. Nothing!
Black, white, who cares, just live while you have a chance. When this recession gets through with all of us, you want see color when we're starving to death and trying to eat each other up. Live and laugh a little! Be blessed - PLEASE!

Just edit my comments. Take out the rap references. I'm not sure what was so bad in there. Seriously. Certainly nothing racist.

Kenny, first of all, I never said that white people owed me a darn thing. Where did you get that from? Where in my blog did you see that? Paul, thanks for yor comments. I really appreciate the info that you shared with us, regarding "Kenny". I felt he was a looser. Jim, moderator I would love to know what Stinks said. He seems to know more about the rap culture, for some reason, than most Black people.
I still can't figure that out. Why would a white man who is as racist as Stink, listen to rap? That is beyond me. Why does he watch minister Farrakhan on youtube? I Don't. Stinko, do you know who is buying the majority of rap songs? I know you are a numbers man. Please check the stats on that. I would like to know why rappers are so wealthy? Blacks, as you said, only make up 12% of the total population. Who is buying that music? Stinks, I guess the companies where you have been on hiring committees wanted to make sure that minorities had somewhat of a chance, even though they might not have more" academically brilliant or experienced" get a job. Remember, before affirmative action a Black man could not even drive a darn bus, in any major city in the United States. We could not get an average city worker job. How academically brilliant or experienced did you have to be to drive a bus, or dig a hole?

Paul, we were all having a discussion about race here. Why do you Naperville cultists always have to bring up a Napergate reference into the discussion? By the way, if I have run away to this thread as you claim, why did you just write a lengthy post trying to skirt my proposal of providing proof on that thread? By the way, as I have noted on that thread, if you have to resort to name calling and belittling others, you have already lost any debate.

I firmly believe that you can judge a person by the enemies he or she makes. If 300-500 members of the Napergate cult consider me an idiot, I must be a very smart person. Considering the source, I take their disapproval as a compliment.

Once again, Paul, you and your ilk have to resort to call me a liar as you cannot refute what I have to say any other way. So far, the only proven liar here, by her own admission, is AAW. Is she a homeowner who pays 19k in property taxes, or does she not even make 19k a year, as she last claimed? Who knows? Who cares? Who cares if you think I am not telling the truth? I don't. I've mentioned a few life experiences. If you don't believe them, I won't be hurt. It is,after all, just the internet.

Regardless of whether it's Ken or someone else, reverse discrimination is reality.

I've seen it. I've been on hiring committees where it was explicitly stated that we needed to hire more blacks. It's been done. And, the person hired was certainly not more academically brilliant or experienced.

Is that fair? Sure, slavery wasn't fair, but it's time now to let people stand up on their own. AA has been around for decades. Let's get the bus moving. No handouts, no reparations--just honest hard work. I don't see how that's too much to want.

By Ken on March 21, 2008 10:27 PM
Having lost out on three jobs because of racial profiling, I have a hard time feeling any empathy for them regarding things that happened over thirty years ago.

____________________________________________________________________

You were also the only one in Illinois chased down for 3 Toll Violations!

When asked to provide the tracking number of your toll violation to see if you were being honest, you ran away to this thread and now you are stating you lost 3 jobs to racial profiling. What a coincidence? Is 3 your lucky number?

You are full of hot air! I am glad those Napergatians busted your hot air balloon causing it to collapse and crash back to earth!

Learn to tell the truth once in a while. You will not get away with lies on this thread or any thread on this Blog Site. It just won't work. Bloggers are not as gullible as you think and do not believe your blantant lies! Grow up Kenny Bob and stop playing with Barbie Dolls as they told you on the Napergate Thread! Learn the meaning of credibility. Enroll in the Napergate Man's School of Credibility and you might actually learn something!

For all those who may not know, Ken is considered an idiot by 300-500 Napergatian bloggers who blogged with him. Not one person ever respected him. He was referred to as a bully! As a boy when they were being kind!

He is considered a big time loser who never backs up what he says.

I would urge all on this blog site to ignore all his comments. Apparently the Napergatians successfully chased him away and he came to bother a nice African American Woman?

He is disgusting and does not represent Napervillians?

Be assured AAW you are right in your conclusions that 98% of Napervillians are not like low life Ken Boy? He is considered a sicko on Napergate Threads! Now he is bringing his sickness here after being called out there and chased away...

Ken,

It's no good. Speaking true--but un-PC--words only gets you name calling and censorship.

Nobody likes hearing the truth. As I said in my censored post, the truth is the 500lb gorilla in the room that everyone chooses to ignore.

I seriously don't know. If I'm guessing correctly, you didn't like my references to rap culture. Fine. But, the truth is, it's out there and glorified constantly.

You can censor all you want here, but it's a stark reality of life that it's all over the place in the popular media. The fact that the 5 people posting on here aren't going to be made aware of what I said really doesn't have much impact.

What? How is what I wrote reprehensible? I can think of one sentence in there that the PC crowd would dislike. You could easily have edited out that sentence.

The truth hurts I suppose. No one likes hearing it when it's perceived as negative.

John Q., if the natives of Africa had fought the slave traders, there would not have been slavery. I can't state it any more plainly for you. It is relevant because their ancestors who sold them out are as guilty as the people who bought them. You talk about the morals of the white slave owners, yet fail to mention that slavery was accepted world wide at that time (and truthfully is still currently accepted in some countries). If President Lincoln had not needed to win a war, it may have taken another 100 years for people to view it as wrong. Just because you chose to ignore history and I don't does not make me a racist.

Taking my statement about affirmative action allowing less qualified students into college out of context does not make it less true. You ask if I can prove that they don't get an easier grading curve. Can you prove that they are graded equally? Seems that a lot of athletes graduate with a wink and a nod, how do you know minorities don't?

Judging people who are unafraid to ask questions about racial matters in a race discussion as racist is the reason why there are so few honest discussions about race.

To "Stinks": Your last comment was deleted because it was beyond reprehensible. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ken wrote:

“I judge people by their actions, not their skin color.”
Ken, it’s kind of hard to take your words at face value when you seem to insist on putting a negative spin on anything you know about the African American experience. For example:

“Blacks are totally at fault for all that has occurred in American History? Well, Another Lense, if you want to go back to the beginning, yes they are. The blacks in Africa sold other blacks they did not want there into slavery. If they had not done so, the only blacks that would be here now would be descendants of those first immigrants.”

How is it relevant to the African American experience that some of the original slaves were sold into slavery by other Africans? Did these African slaves share in the responsibility for their enslavement because they had the same skin color as their captors? Do you think this lets the overwhelmingly white American slave-holders off the hook, morally speaking? Does this justify 250 years of slavery and another 100 of Jim Crow oppression?

Also:

“Jim, while you may think what J.Q. has written is true, you don't know for sure.”

You obviously have internet access. You can verify these facts for yourself.

And:

“Fact is, many schools take minorities with lower scores than white people.”

Well, yes, that is allowed by affirmative action.

“How does anyone know if they make sure they have good graduate classes or not from the minorities.”

Why would you ask such a question? Do you have any evidence that colleges have different grading scales and graduations requirements for African Americans?

Re Moderator Jim
Please don't forget empathy and hope, these two qualities are areas I have been trying to work at. I suspect others may want to give these areas a bit of attention.

Well, African American Woman (Is it a telling sign that you are the last in the group of you that was posting at first?), what kind of person am I? Does the truth offend you, or is it just white people that offend you? Or is it just white people who won't be apologists for something that happened many years before we were born?

Jim, while you may think what J.Q. has written is true, you don't know for sure. Fact is, many schools take minorities with lower scores than white people. How does anyone know if they make sure they have good graduate classes or not from the minorities. Once they get out, the grade does not matter as much, and affirmative action gives them additional help getting a job.

Jim, you want to know what makes us tick, or what we are after. I judge people by their actions, not their skin color. Naturally, if I meet someone like AAW who thinks the world owes her a living because of her skin color, that will color my judgement of her. I could care less about anyone's skin color until they act like it gives them special treatment. I guess what I want is equal treatment for all. I think for many reasons, some found in the black community personified by Reverends Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, and their ilk, we are a long way from that happening.

Stinko, that was my earlier post. I forgot to put my name on it.

Jim J., I read the article as well. It is very tough to eat healthy when all you see in the Black communities are Chicken and Rib "joints". Places like Naperville are full of healthy places to eat and exercise. Blacks are not playing on an even ground. Jim, moderator wake up and smell the coffee. It does not matter what you say, Stink and his side-kick Ken will always debate anything positive that you have to say. You can't even give a compliment to one of the bloggers, without him opening his big mouth with a negative comment. As I said before they are both hard core racists. Stink,in one of your earlier post you mentioned I should leave Naperville. I would like to say for the record, I do not run into many people like you and Ken. Thank God you are not the norm. Jim J. you seem to be a caring and thoughtful man. Please, understand that I am not a racist, I just can't stand men like Stink and his side-kick Ken. They make me sick. Can you imagine what they are teaching their kids? Stink, I bet all the interacial couples in Naperville drive you out of your mind, right. LOL

"I wonder if those stats include all backs or African American ones exclusively". I've heard that Africans that come to this country do well in education" Did I copy your quote down right? I know it is hard for you to believe, but they were ONLY talking about African Americans from the United States. I have noticed that If John Q. or Jim J. says anything positive about Africans Americans, you are right there with a negative comment. What about this and what about that blah,blah, blah. Do you actually believe that the majority of white teachers would give an African American student an A because of affirmative action.? What has happened to you in your past to make you so bitter? Is your boss Black or do you have a Black next door neighbor that you don't like. What makes you tick?

Vitriol is certainly a strong word. From the non-black perspective, I've seen little of it. Just irrefutably hard numbers and statistics.

Care to dispute any of the facts presented above?

Sunday Tribune Page 1 article 1 sums up some of the serious chronic health concerns affecting the urban city dweller. Same article page 20 and I quote: Health experts think the high kidney failure rates in black neighborhoods are funneled by a combination of overlapping factors, including an obesity epidemic; high concentrations of poverty; and a lack of access to medical care, health insurance, affordable, safe places to exercise and supermarkets that sell inexpensive, healthy foods.
Based on the article in the tribune this morning I would say we have a long way to go to get equal opportunities for all residents of our great country. With some insight and on the job experience that Obama possesses, maybe these inequalities can finally be conquered.

To Moderator Jim:

I guess since I am honest in what I write, and not an elitist like you, I need to know what J.Q. wrote to "elevate" the conversation.

To: John Q. Public on March 29, 2008 5:31 PM

Okay. I will agree that it is certainly a trend in the right direction.

Quality grads meaning grades. What kind of grades are these graduates getting? I've seen first hand where lower scoring African Americans have gotten jobs because the company has made commitments to fulfill certain self-imposed quotas.

Thank you, Moderator Jim.

"I don't remember saying that the numbers aren't substantial improvements."

Well, that's technically true. But you did say:

"That being said, those are some pretty dismal numbers, albeit improving ones."

So, while the numbers might still be too low, it's pretty obvious that the trend is in the right direction. And that's pretty much the evidence you asked for when you said:

"In that time period, can you show me a single trend of the African American community lifting itself up."

You also wrote:

"That being said, I wonder how many of those are quality graduates versus those that are pushed through because of affirmative action programs."

Well, since "quality graduates" is a subjective term, that question is unanswerable. Last I heard, though, affirmative action only gets you in the door; there is no such thing as "affirmative action" when it comes to grades.

I don't remember saying that the numbers aren't substantial improvements.

That being said, I wonder how many of those are quality graduates versus those that are pushed through because of affirmative action programs.

Stinks, the percentage of bachelor's degrees and PhD's awarded to African Americans almost doubled from the mid 80's to the mid 00's. In the same period, there was a greater than 100% increase in the numbers of African Americans who received bachelor's degrees every year. If these figures don't count as substantial improvement in your book, I think you need to get a new book.

To Jim Jandick: You're welcome.

Anonymous 3.17.08 6:38 pm
Thank you for sharing this info.

"Anonymous on March 27, 2008 6:38 PM" was me.
-JQP

You are right. My error. I was lookikng at data in 2001.

That being said, those are some pretty dismal numbers, albeit improving ones.

I wonder if those stats include all blacks or African American ones exclusively. I've heard that Africans that come to this country do well in education.

Stinks wrote:

"Yet, as I've said before, the black community has LOWER college graduation rates than before."

Lower than before what? I don't know where you're getting your information, but here are some statistics about African American educational achievement that I culled from various sites in a few minutes of searching:

81% of blacks aged 25 and older had at least a high school diploma in 2006.

There were 2.3 million black college students in fall of 2005. This was an increase of roughly 1 million (77%) from 15 years earlier.

From 1985 to 2004 the number of bachelor's degrees awarded to African Americans increased from 57,473 to 131,241.

In the 2004 academic year blacks earned 9.4 percent of all bachelor's degrees awarded. As recently as 1985 blacks earned only 5.9 percent of all bachelor's degrees awarded in the United States.

18% of blacks aged 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree or higher in 2006.

1.3 million blacks aged 25 and older had an advanced degree in 2006. In 1996, 683,000 blacks had this level of education.

The number of PhD's awarded to African Americans reached an all-time high in 2004, when 1,869 African Americans earned doctorates. This represented 7.1 percent of all doctorates awarded to American citizens. This too is an all-time high; in 1990 the black share of all doctoral awards was 3.6 percent.

To: John Q. Public on March 26, 2008 10:02 PM

Almost two generations have passed since Affirmative Action first became part of the American vernacular.

In that time period, can you show me a single trend of the African American community lifting itself up. 45 years may or may not be a long enough time, but I just don't see them helping themselves along. I hear excuses.

There are many immigrants to this country that came here due to oppression in their homelands, seeking opportunity, etc. Many of those immigrants had little to no money when they arrive here. Yet, they end up doing well.

To me, education is the tide that raises all ships. In this country, higher education is available to all. Yet, as I've said before, the black community has LOWER college graduation rates than before.

So fine, maybe 45 years isn't enough. But, when you start giving a lower qualified person a job over another more qualified person because of the color of their skin, that smacks of discrimination to me. And, when it comes time for my kids to go out and find jobs, you can damn well be sure that if some lesser qualified person gets the job over my child, simply because of skin color, that I'll be incredibly angry. Why should my kids suffer when they never had anything to do with slavery or discrimination.

I'd be ashamed to be accepting handouts, reparations, etc.

AAW,

To me it doesn't matter what your income level is and what house or car you have. My thoughts still stay the same. America was (and still is to a certain extent) the land of opportunity.

People from all over the world come here to avail themselves of the opportunities. Why don't the people here already do the same?

The only thing I understand, AAWiN, is that you are a liar, and people like you are the people who make racial healing very hard to achieve. You would rather spread the hate than learn to get along and quit blaming people for your problems. This is true whether or not you live in a nice house, or in the ghetto.

Moderator Jim I am sorry that some in this blog have become enraged.

As I have written in this blog, The message I came away with in the Obama speech is a message of hope. This message I took to include all Americans. I feel that race relations is an ongoing evolving process, not one that can be handled at the federal level alone. All people regardless of backround, skin color, or economic class must partake in this process.
Some on this blog have taken me to task regarding "people pulling themselves up by their Bootstraps". I suspect many including myself and my family are a firm believer of this concept. I am concerned though when this concept is used against people as an excuse. When I take a hard look at areas like Naperville and compare them to inner city environments, in my heart I know the deck is stacked against inner city residents. As a younger man I felt like all these people have to do is work a little harder and they can attain what I have. After all no one gave me my education I paid for it, No one helped me start my business-I did it by myself.
The problem with this thought process is none of us live in a vacuum, we are all a part of our environment. If that environment is one that hope is a constant there will be a great many success stories. If hope is not a constant but something that has to be searched for the odds of success go down substantially. As a young boy I was inundated with signs of hope from my family, our families church, and the community at large. When my father would coral us kids to go "sell candy" to get to a ymca camp it was an opportunity to show how hard work is a good thing. To go a step further when arriving at this summer camp there were kids from a full gamut of neighborhoods. This was probably my first exposure to kids that were different than me. I found what I took for granted many fellow campers could only dream of having. Unfortunately there was another lesson learned at camp, since I was very aware of the cost (selling all that darn candy) of camp it came out in conversation with a counselor that some campers from disadvantage neighborhoods came to camp for about 20% of what the advantaged kids parents had paid. I was probably about 10 at the time this revelation came to my attention. It took until my mid thirties to get away from the thought process that "why don't poor people just pull themselves up by their bootstraps" after all it worked for me.

The next chapter in the leaning process.

In my mid thirties it came to my attention that a good work ethic though important was not the only ingredient to be successful. The business that had served our family was changing rapidly and I had to take a risk and change with it to stay successful. With hope instilled into me 'That Can Do Attitude" we were quickly on the path to success. The greatest lesson learned at this new crossroads was a new concept called empathy. The business has stayed small but I have had the opportunity to meet many people from all walks of life. And the greatest gift to date has been the gift of empathy toward my fellow man.
Yesterday I had the chance to discuss the continual shootings that are prevalent in a Chicago neighborhood, with a friend who lives in that affected area. He informed me the area is struggling with competing groups of kids fighting, shooting, killing each other. From the conversation we had he explained that the crime had become so bad many students have not attended school for weeks. He left me with a prayer that his mother told him before she passed.
Son count your blessings if you like me are fortunate enough to hold onto your children until you become old yourself. Don't be angry if you lose one, but continue on with your lifes' work . The friend that conveyed this prayer to me exclaimed he was truely blessed for both his children had made it to adulthood. I thanked him for sharing a very personal part of his life with me. I wondered if this friend might have been one of the disadvantaged campers I laughed and shared different experiences with so many years ago.
As candidate Obama opens up his life experiences to the public I hope others can find the message of hope that rings true to me.
Sincerely Jim Jandick

ken, I must confess. I am really a Low Income Naperville renter. I don't have a big house like I said, I did, but it was fun while it lasted. I have always admired the African American Naperville individuals, that have been able to pick themselves up and get around people like you. 19k in taxes, I don't even make that in one year. I feel very blessed just be able to live in Naperville. I have made several new friends since moving here in 1999, both Black and White. 98% of the White People I have met have been very nice and caring. I will pray for you and your family, as well as Stinks. You guys seem to have a lot of anger and hate. Also, you and Stinks pointed out all of my "horrible English" mistakes. Sorry if I offended you. I can only hope that your were able to understand some of my thoughts.I guess you feel better now that I don't have that big house and car. Have a great day.

By Stinks on March 26, 2008 11:40 AM

"Even after all the Affirmative Action programs that helped them out, they still have been unable to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. They cry racism for their failings, yet reverse discrimination is rampant."

Stinks, do you really think that 40 years is a sufficient period of time to erase the effects of 300 years of oppression? The door was closed to African Americans for three centuries. I don't think it's too much to ask that it now be held open a little wider while they adjust to the idea that the "American dream" is now achievable for them, too.

The stereotypes will never disappear until the parties accept their roles and responsibilities.

Moderator Jim, why would you expect an elevated, thoughtful conversation on this subject? Considering all the hate contained in the other subjects, whether the subject is about schools or the arrest of the hallowed Napergate man, you expected this thread to be different? Heck, even Obama indulged in the same kind of stereotyping he supposedly disavowed the day after his speech.

The only surprising thing here is the low post count. Must not be important if it is not related to the schools or the Napergate man.

With your many spelling and grammatical errors, I can believe you received a grade you did not deserve while earning your English degree. You really should not correct other's spelling mistakes until you learn to spell correctly yourself. At least you finally realized that you are just one woman, and not many as your previous name indicated.

This may be a surprise to you, but many people could speak at Obama's church and give better tips than the former racist pastor did. I am sorry that you are so downtrodden in Naperville that you too have to show your racism. You may again be surprised to learn that everyone who does not share your views, views that you could not expand with any facts, is a racist.

AAF:

So sad for you then if you were and English major. Then again, I've heard English spoken by some of the teachers in the Chicago public schools. Pitiful.

Serial killers are an aberration comprising a small minority of the entire white community. Gang violence, thuggism and all the other nasty things are a daily occurrence in the blac community that is hugely disproportionate relative to the population at large.

It's sad that you still refuse to accept any responsibility for your people's inabilities and continue with the racist name-calling over and over.

Again. What is the reason for blacks' showing poorly in academia (other than your horrible English skills as an English major). No black blood in my "vains" for sure.

And, if you want at least a partial explanation of what is behind your communities shortcomings, read "The Bell Curve."

I'm still waiting on you to answer the very simple questions I put forth.

To Moderator Jim
What happen at this blog ? Any suggestions!

To Stinko. Actually, I was a English major in college,but my white teacher gave me an A because of affirmative Action. I thought this was a Blog. Thank you for the link. It was too difficult for me to understand. If you are going to refer to Bill Cosby, please learn how to spell his name. It is Bill Cosby not Boll Cosby as you said in your earlier post. I guess you did poorly in your spelling classes. Still, no comment on the Serial Killers? "Stinko", You know there were alot of interacial,"dating", oh I mean raping, with the slaves and all, I guess the white male could not control his "urges" back then.Also, it really did not make a difference if the Black female said no master,we were still violated. Are you 100% sure there is no Black Blood running through your vains? You are so at ease watching the minister, Farrakhan on youtube, talking about Snoop, and "Fifty Cents". You might be a brother. LOL This is my last post to you. You are a racist and that will never change. I would love for you to speak your views and beliefs in the heart of Chicago's Black Community. Maybe, at Obama's Church. You could give us some of your great tips on how to better serve our community. No, I was just teasing, you are much better hiding behind the computer along with your other Klan members. Have a great day. "STINKO"

To: Anonymous on March 25, 2008 9:22 PM

I've never had the occasion to be friends with blacks. I don't go out of my way to be or not be friends with people. But, as I look around, I see that I'm in a profession with very few blacks. I work at a company with few black professionals. The activities that my children and I are involved with also have few blacks. I'm not opposed to forming friendships with blacks, but it just isn't something that's happened.

Racism does exist, but when a group that makes up 13% of the population refuses to take at least some degree of responsibility, there's little hope to constructively address the problem.

To: John Q. Public on March 25, 2008 7:54 PM

Even after all the Affirmative Action programs that helped them out, they still have been unable to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. They cry racism for their failings, yet reverse discrimination is rampant.

I've been involved in hiring committees at a couple of different jobs, and in each case there was pressure to hire more blacks--even at the cost of passing up more qualified non-black candidates.

Sometimes it's easier to just take the handout and not put forth the effort.

AAW,

I know you have this great big fabulous house and car and all, but you must have really done poorly in your grammar classes. You can find copies of "The Elements of Style" by Strunk here: http://www.bartleby.com/141/ . Please read it.

At any rate, I never once said that I hated black people. That always seems to be the reaction by blacks and other ultra-liberal self-hating/guilt-ridden whites when someone that isn't black questions why blacks are so far behind other populations in this country.

It's really quite simple. These are the two facts that speak volumes:

1. Blacks commit more crimes as a percentage of the population.
2. Blacks have lower high school and college graduation rates.

Why is it that blacks refuse to listen to or critically examine these facts, yet are quick to scream racism at every turn?

I think the breakdown of the black family plays a large role in the failure of black society. Until the male learns to control his urges and the female figures out how to say "no" to the male, things will continue on the downward spiral they are on now. Wait, that's the white people's fault though too, isn't it? Must be because of slavery and the US Government giving black people AIDS. Sorry, I'd forgotten about that.

But, do you know what is most telling? Your actions. Even you tacitly agree that you'd rather live in a white community instead of one of many black communities that are out there. Why is that? I'm sure those communities could use the benefits of you spreading your incredible wealth there.

A simple few questions for which I'd like to hear answers from you.

1. Why is it that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crimes?

2. Why is it that blacks have such low graduation rates?

3. Why is the black family more broken than other families?

Wow. Between the opinions revealed in this post and the other post about a month ago that became a discussion about gay marriage, it's become quite clear to me that Naperville is one of the most hateful, racist, homophobic places I could have chosen to live in all of IL. I am simply stunned that my neighbors are so closedminded and ignorant.

I can't wait to move to a more tolerant place than this smallminded, elitist, bigoted, hatemongering town. It seemed like such a nice place to live, until I read things like the above.

To You Stink, never said I was a racist. Unlike, yourself I know there are good and bad in all races. Most of the White people that I have come across in Naperville, have no where near the hate that you have. I hope you are not teaching your kids this hate. No "Stinko" I will continue to live here in my big house and drive my big car and get under the skin of racist people like you. I don't listen to rap or the lyrics, like you do, but I know a lot of white people listen to rap,because the rappers would not be as rich if it were only Black Teens, and yourself, buying that music. Your story about your one little black friend that seemed to be "normal" until he got into high school was so very touching. I wonder with all of the serial killers (98%) white ( I know you are big on the numbers) did they seem "normal" when they were in 5th grade? Why do you think most of the serial killers are white? You being an expert on crime and all. No comment about the racial profiling. When is the next KKK meeting? You are funny to me as well. "Holla" Oh that is Black Slang for good bye. But you knew that of course, being such an expert on my community.

Mr. Obama raised crime and punishment in his Philadelphia speech as does his friend Mr. Wright. So I have posted some of the info for a fact based discussion. Again, if you want more than network sound bites go to the source. For crime it is the DOJ

Victims by race from DOJ, you have to dig to find the numbers in a PDF or spread sheet only under demographics.

For age 12 and over Personal crimes inc: Rape Robbery assault. 2005 In total incidents:

Against whites = 4.2 mil rounded

Against blacks = 847 K rounded

Who is killing who?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Although slightly less true now than before, most murders are intraracial

From 1976 to 2005 --

* 86% of white victims were killed by whites
* 94% of black victims were killed by blacks

Stinks
I understand you as saying that what you know about Blacks is what you have primarily learned on television and on You Tube? Do you think if you become "friends" with a black person that perhaps your opinions may be different, not that you necessarily want them to be different, but just asking (not a rhetorical question)

The Klan has a history of violence that many people would not support and few other groups that march do. That is why women, and Blacks, all march with group identity pride and it's not an uproar to some. However I do see how in society that some groups can do one thing but others get more bad press if they do something that appears to be (or is) the same thing. The press is entertainment first, news second. That is what is going to get people to come back for more. The "truth" without spin is sometimes not as entertaining.

Racism does exist, it is a reality, but what do we do with it? How do we do something even a little thing to make it better or do we sit back and accept it? Blame, sure it might help some folks sleep at night but really it doesn't contribute much to moving forward if the goal is more understanding between the races.

Dept of Justice: How many people have gone to prison.

Highlights include the following:

* At yearend 2001, over 5.6 million U.S. adults had ever served time in State or Federal prison

* Of adults in 2001 who had ever served time in prison, nearly as many were black (2,166,000) as were white (2,203,000). An estimated 997,000 were Hispanic.

* If incarceration rates remain unchanged, 6.6% of U.S. residents born in 2001 will go to prison at some time during their lifetime.

* U.S. residents ages 35 to 39 in 2001 were more likely to have gone to prison (3.8%) than any other age group, up from 2.3% in 1991.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

This is the official source for statistics regarding crime in the USA. US Dept of Justice. Anyone that wants to educate themselves with the raw data, here it is.

Prison Statistics

Summary findings | BJS publications | Selected statistics |
Also by BJS staff | Related sites
Summary findings

On December 31, 2006 —

– 2,258,983 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails – an increase of 2.9% from year end 2005, less than the average annual growth of 3.4% since year end 1995.

– 1,502,179 sentenced prisoners were under State or Federal jurisdiction.

– there were an estimated 501 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents – up from 411 at year end 1995.

– the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 4.5% from year end 2005, reaching 112,498, and the number of men rose 2.7%, totaling 1,458,363.

At yearend 2006 there were:
* 3,042 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States,

*compared to 1,261 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males

*and 487 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.

In 2004 there were an estimated 633,700 State prisoners serving time for a violent offense. State prisons also held an estimated 265,600 property offenders and 249,400 drug offenders.

To address the concern brought up by Mark.Mark I did not grow up in a inner city or poor neighborhood. I grew up in a comparatively wealthy suburb about twenty miles west of Chicago in the late sixties early seventies. My family did own a three flat in the austin neigborhood (Chicago) in the early sixties. I am sorry you felt that I was making the assertion that 'No one can make it out of the inner city without a gov. hand out.
My main point is that we need to address the concept of HOPE before we as Americans can expect substantial progress on this front. Once HOPE is embraced, the pull yourself up by your bootstraps will take hold and have some great dividends. Mark your point on the disintegration of inner city neighborhoods is right on and in my opinion seems to start the downward spiral once the family unit is compromised,almost like a "family of another sort" (gangs) roars in to fill the void.
Regarding "African Americans Women in Naperville thank you for the compliment,I feel many readers on this post would not think you were making excuses for anyone if you said the same as I. Regarding the negative connotations of certain racist groups I can not comment on the possibility of them still here in this century. But I feel if we are going to move forward with helping all Americans in need we will have to focus on what each of us as individuals will do to further that cause.
I did not take into account the hatred that some may embrace within the speech given by Obama's pastor. Rather I gave those strong words the same low attention I gave President Reagan's words "Russia the Evil Empire". I put it in an "attention getting" context & nothing more.

"At what point does the slavery issue get put in the past? At what point does the black community move on and try to better itself through more education and less Snoopp Dogg and Fiddy-Cent? Have you looked at the dismal college graduation rates of African Americans? Oh wait, that's because of slavery. That's right. I forgot."

Well, if the end of slavery 140 years ago marked the end of oppression of people of African descent in the U.S., this might be a good point. Unfortunately, though, systematic, legal oppression of blacks in this country continued for another 100+ years after the end of slavery, and the legal impediments to advancement were only removed in the mid-1960's. After 350 years of living in a country that has been the land of opportunity for everybody but them, would you really expect African Americans to overcome all of their demons in a single generation?

To Stinks and Anonymous:

Below is the link to Viacom, the company owns MTV and BET who are the primary outlets for hip-hop AKA Gang Recruiting Videos.

What the videos show is that if you are a low life, you get the money, the respect and the girls. Just like 77 virgins and fame for a total nobody if you are willing to kill people. Same sales pitch.

The only thing black about BET is the name, check out the board of directors that pumps this trash out.

www.viacom.com

To: Anonymous on March 25, 2008 2:49 PM

No racist beliefs here. Documented proof. Look up the statistics for yourself. Turn on the tube and listen to the black rappers and their lyrics of hope and spirituality. Hop on to youtube and watch Farrakhan deliver is uplifting messages to the masses.

If there were a million man march for whites, I bet there would be a million protests from blacks and whites alike. Yet, there wasn't even an eyelid blink almost when Farrakhan did his joke of a march.

Don't you find it interesting that when the Klan marches, there are common white and non-whites citizens alike who protest the Klan's presence. Yet, when black people march, and if a normal white citizen were to protest, I can't even imagine the violence or name calling that person would suffer.

Racist beliefs or is it racist reality that no one wants to look at because of the un-PC nature of the discussion?

AAW, you make me laugh.

I guess even with you big house and fancy job, you can't read the post. It said the US Department of Justice.

Turn on the TV and one learns all about the black community. And no, I haven't had a black friend in probably 30+ odd years, but I remember as a child having a friend in 4 or 5th grade that was. Throughout those two years in elementary school he seemed like a nice normal person. Then, when I got to HS, we ran into each other again. He'd become a very sullen troublemaker. I think he was expelled from school twice, as far as I know.

BTW, you'd be surprised at my job and income level. Don't think for a minute it's just the poor hillbillies that see through the thin veneer of your peoples' hatred. But from what I can tell it's okay for blacks to support hate speech from the likes of Farrakhan and Wright, but it's not okay the other way around. That to me is the most telling. At what point does the slavery issue get put in the past? At what point does the black community move on and try to better itself through more education and less Snoopp Dogg and Fiddy-Cent? Have you looked at the dismal college graduation rates of African Americans? Oh wait, that's because of slavery. That's right. I forgot.

Even though Obama is half white, the fact that his minister spewed this type of hatred through the years that Obama attended church tells me a great deal. I liken it to the indoctrination of the Islamist children that are taught to hate the west. What kind of feelings lay buried in the man's mind and heart?

McCain '08.

And, as the poster above said, what has Obama done in his tenure in the government? Nothing. Maybe he will some day, but until then he needs to step back.

If you hate white people so much, why live in Naperville? There are plenty of black suburbs around. Why not go live in one of those? Go back there and distribute the wealth.

To You Stink, Who did their study? A relative of yours. Did you read the Naperville sun today regarding a white man that grew his hair and grew a beard. He went from never being pulled over by the police to being pulled over because they thought he was from the middle east. Check out the article. I know you would find that strange and try to make excuses for the police department. You seem to be so bitter. I hope to God you are not my neighbor. You seem to know alot about the morals of the Black community. Have you ever lived there? Do you have any Black friends?, Or do you just consider yourself an expert on the Black Community. Or do you just go by what you hear in the media? What has made you such a racist? One thing I do like about you is that you are honest real modern day KKK member. The old Klan use to hid behind the sheets, now you hide behind your computer. Boy I bet you hate all of us "weathly Blacks in Naperville, with our big houses, and great jobs. I did not know they had any trailer parks in Naperville. Boy you learn something new everyday. Do you have a single or Double Wide?

Moderator
Please don't let folks spew their offensive racists beliefs under the guise of trying to understand. This is very offensive.

I'm from East St Louis and I don't really care wither Obma is black, white, Red, yellow or any other color. I won't vote for him, if in fact he does win the nomination, and it has nothing at all to do with race - he has been in goverment for some time yet what has he accomplished? Good lord people don't fall for his speechs! Hilter was also a great speaker! Have we been corrupted by Bush and the people around him that we are blind to a bunch of words! I sure have to have more than somebody who is a good speech maker!

A few wealthy/smart/etc. black people is hardly indicative of the black race as a whole. In this case, the exception does not prove the rule.

The following are news items that are worrisome to most people.

- A February 1997 report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, 56% of arrestees were "White", 42% were "Black", and 2% were of other races. The report additionally noted that "[v]ictims of rape were about evenly divided between whites and blacks; in about 88% of forcible rapes, the victim and offender were of the same race."

- A subsequent United States Department of Justice report which surveyed homicide statistics between 1974 and 2004 stated that of the crimes surveyed, 52.1% of the offenders were Black, 45.9% were White, and 2% were Other Races. Of the victims in those same crimes, 51% were White, 46.9% were Black, and 2.1% were Other Races.

And what is the population of blacks in the US? 12-13%.

To me, the above statistics demonstrate that there is a lack of discipline and morals in the black community. All one has to do is see the violence within the communities, the levels of gang activity, the rap stars that are products of these communities and that overt racism against non-blacks.

Once the black community stops making excuses and starts behaving in a more ethical and moral manner, then maybe they'll be entitled to more respect. But as things stand now, rightfully or wrongfully, the perception of blacks is that of gangbangers and thugs.

But hey, it's gotta be the black man being held down by the white man, right? Lets hand out those reparations!

By Growing Up White -Middle Class America

Have you ever lived in a predominantly black neighborhood, what is the basis for your assertions that no one can make it in this environment without government assistance since you seem to rule out self help?

My aunt was one of the last white people living in her inner-city neighborhood, her new neighbors were kind, considerate, loving and looked out for her since her husband had long term cancer and she could barely walk. Her neighbors took turns buying groceries for her for years. This neighborhood was destroyed when the gangs and drugs arrived and like Al Quida sp. in Iraq systematically intimidated the neighbors, murdering people as examples and recruiting kids through intimidation and destroying the local economy and schools. Her neighbors could not allow their children to play outside the house. Every year the terrorism increased. Gangs kill fare more people in the US every year than we loose fighting in Iraq. 85% of the drugs come in across the wide-open southern border.

The last time I looked at the numbers, more black teens than white teens have jobs and work, why do you believe they are not working? If someone can find the numbers please post them with the source.

Like Iraq, until the terrorists are eliminated or neutralized, and safety restored, neighborhoods including the businesses and schools can not function. Who cares what color the terrorist are, do their victims?

By Growing up White middle Class. I really enjoyed your post. It was very well put. If I had said that, I would be making excuses for African Americans Again. As one guy put it. " The Asians did ok"? LOL

Ken, I would really love to give you those 7 examples but I can't because of privacy issues. We can afford the 19k in taxes because we are "drug dealers", or basketball players. That what the majority of my Naperville neighbors think anyway. Thats one form of racism, the only way a Black person can "afford", those types of taxes. Right

Something that I heard in the speech which is evident here is that when talking about race it's hard to have a conversation that gets further then blame. Until we can honestly look at our own individual contributions to the problem the conversation is not going to get further. Hopefully these responses are not indicative of what most folks here really think. Wow!

In the way of casting notes for the Hitler play, no one is more qualified to play Bismarck than our current President Mr. Bush. This is not affirmative action at work.

*Economy brought to the brink of collapse

*The dollar (AKA American Peso) loosing value like a punctured balloon

*Fire sale of US assets to pay foreign debts

*Passage of all of the dictator enabler laws, at least Hitler had to do his own heavy lifting.

*He represent the Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party who sit around the fireplace at the Country Club arguing with rich liberals over who is more qualified to manage the little people.

Ken, that would take too much time on this blog. I would have to write a book. I would love to "break it down for you" Any other ideas off line.

I'll just take a weeks worth. Seven seperate events that happened on separate days in a weeks time. You said you are discriminated against every single day, yet when asked for facts, can only give rhetoric. I am just interested to see how who can afford a house that they pay 19k in property taxes on is constantly discriminated against.

HOPE (Where Do I Fit In Todays America)

I just finished reading the Obama speech along with rereading Jims article. Growing up in a middle class white Chicago suburb with good hard working parents I always had the benefit of feeling safe, motivated, and a driven need to have purpose to my life. My parents instilled this drive into our very being at a young age. Thru example such as earning our way to a 2 week ymca camp by selling thousands of boxes of mints door to door, or being responsible for budgeting paper route money, the lessons never stopped.
Fast forward to the teenage years, things got a little weird. Mom became more ill with a mental illness she had been battling for decades and dad was at the end stages of alcoholism. Here is were the lessons learned at a young age paid off with substantial benefits. A) our community church became very proactive and dropped off food and general support on a weekly basis, This included forgiving grade school tuition for three children. B) The "Work Ethic" and unwavering hope that nothing was impossible motivated the three oldest children in our family to work at a local chinese restaurant. This brought in the necessary money along with food stamps and some limited help from the state to get us through this 6 year rough patch in our lives.
Fast forward again to the present. Could our family have succeeded as well if we were not white but living in black poor America. Take any innner city location were poverty is rampant, were there is not 1 but hundreds of families in need of not only food but a massive "DOSE OF HOPE". A neighborhood were there is no possibility of selling candy door to door to "earn your way to camp". Or no chinese restaurant to work at and take home the leftovers to eat. Or were the closest hospital is not a half a mile away but rather 8-10 miles away. Even with both parents in trouble we still had a loving family, many in the inner city struggle with 1 parent families at best. Schools look them up if you dare compare any of them to what we take for granted here in the suburbs.
From my perspective we will have to address how to instill not a work ethic, but the idea of HOPE in any of the communities that lack it now. That is the message I found most interesting about the Obama speech.
LETS FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER! TIME HAS COME TO USE THE DRIVE WITHIN EACH OF US TO CORRECT THIS ON GOING INJUSTICE.

I've watched what I can find on Rev. Wright. Following are my impressions.

These are not direct quotes, but summations of what this guy is saying, not on one occasion but repeatedly.

"The US Government invented AIDS to exterminate Blacks"

"Jesus was a black man persecuted by white men (the Romans) like we are today"

"The USA of rich-white-Americans is who is doing it to us"

"Clarence Thomas is anti-black-female, and an Uncle Tom"

“inner city crime is caused by white people”

This stuff goes on and on.

A television movie/docudrama that was recently released (Naperville Library has a few copies) to video and should be required viewing for any voter is titled: Hitler: Rise to Power

In it we get to see the angry Jew hating Hitler as he climbs the ladder of power and all of his enablers. While standing in the beer hall (there is better beer at other places) located in the basement of the Munich City Hall, Hitler makes hate filled speech after hate filled speech blaming the Jews for the ethnic Germans' woes including going after their women.

If they ever decide to do a Broadway Musical (like the Wiz) version of the movie, Mr. Wright would be a natural as a black Adolph. He has the language, the hate, the platform and powerful friends. Mr. Obama could play one of the powerful enablers that believe that they can control the genie after they let it out of the bottle.

Watch the Mr. Wright movies and the Hitler move, Mr. Wright only has to work on his body language, but he is almost there today.

Mr. Obama asks us to believe that he can repeatedly sleep with dogs like Wright and Rezko, and keep on sleeping with them, and not catch fleas.

It was a potentially great speech, but as a political tool it fell short.

Sen. Obama never actually condemned the individual statements made by Rev. Wright --- he only couched his "disagreements" with them.

As a true "healer", he should have accepted the man as his friend and mentor, but individually identified each item and declared them wrong instead of blaming them on age, generations, etc. He hadan opportunity for a lay-up, and he tipped the ball out of bounds!

Note to Mark [posted on March 22, 2008 10:14 PM]:

est. 498,000 died in the Civil War.

Discrimination to an extent is certainly brought on by blacks themselves. Every single day we see that it's okay for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. to be spouting out hate speech.

When we see white policemen arresting a black man on the news, all we hear is racists speech from the blacks throwing accusations of racism.

When we see time after time lower school test scores from blacks, the blacks say it's because of racism. Of course, the fact that the Asians do just fine doesn't mean anything, does it. Blacks do worse because because they've been discriminated against? Right. It's an unfair test. Right? It's rigged for whites. Right?

More blacks in prison relative to their population? Racism again. Let's not accept responsibility. No, no, it's just much easier to blame the system.

I'm just sick of it. Isn't there any sense of shame? At what point do people pull themselves up out of the muck and learn to take advantage of all America has to offer. This country wasn't built on handouts. It was built on hard work and ingenuity. Nothing was expected, it was earned.

BTW, to all the African Americans here, OJ was innocent, right? I mean really, he's black, so that must mean that blacks need to support him in his innocence right?

What a joke. If African Americans can't look past their own race to be objective, how is there any hope for non-blacks to do that.

Who or what race is a fault for the condition of this country at this time or for anytime in history?

Nothing was earned, it was always taken.

and to my sisters, take the high road, no more responses. The color of this world is changing, its getting darker every day.

You know what I mean.

Ken, that would take too much time on this blog. I would have to write a book. I would love to "break it down for you" Any other ideas off line.

We are still discriminated against every single day.

How are you and your fellow African American women in Naperville discriminated against every day? Facts not rhetoric, please.

Blacks are totally at fault for all that has occurred in American History?

Well, Another Lense, if you want to go back to the beginning, yes they are. The blacks in Africa sold other blacks they did not want there into slavery. If they had not done so, the only blacks that would be here now would be descendants of those first immigrants.

To Stinks, Blacks are responsible for the racial climate in America, Are you nuts? We are still discriminated against every single day. Waiting for hand outs from the government? Lots of white people on government assistance, buddy. Until, you white man, have lived in our shoes, please don't pretend to be an expert, on what "Blacks" want or need. Thank you. P.S. I hope you are not my neighbor. I know the KLan is alive and well in Dupage County. That includes Naperville, as well. Oh,I must go I have to check to see how much cash I have on my link Card(Food Stamps)Do you think I could get a "Hand Out" to pay my 19k Naperville Taxes? obama for president.

Stinks, any other reasons? Blacks are totally at fault for all that has occurred in American History? They alone are to blame for the racial climate? Wow!

"So many years after slavery, the blacks can't move on."

The problem is that the extreme discrimination against blacks did not die with slavery. The Jim Crow laws of the South, and institutional racism in the North, continued the organized oppression of African Americans for another century after the end of the Civil War. Jeremiah Wright and his generation are old enough to have experienced and been directly impacted by this. Is it really any wonder that this has had such a profound impact on his world view?

The reason race is still an issue now is black people make it so. Asking for apologies from the government, screaming for more and more affirmative action rights. They refuse to raise themselves up by their own bootstraps and continually look for handouts.

So many years after slavery, the blacks can't move on. They hold themselves down through their awful rap stars, gangs and overall violence towards their own people as well as others and the inability to think with any kind of empathy.

Strangely, Boll Cosby is the one that has it right. He's seen beyond the "woe is me" attitude and pushes for blacks to further themselves.

Death knows no color.
I think you all can agree on that.

Enjoy life while you can and don't allow stumbling blocks to get in the way. All our blood bleeds red and the maggots and worms have no preference. When you are on your death beds is this what you will be thinking about. I think not! Let people believe and do as they please. Life is about choices, right or wrong.

Get over yourselves.

John Q, thanks for pointing me towards the numbers.

The most accurate documented count of the dead may be the April 24, 2002 LA Weekly article, "The L.A. 53", by Jim Crogan. Using coroner's reports, police records and interviews, he documented 53 people and how they died.
“

Gunfire killed 35, including eight people shot by law enforcement and two by National Guardsmen. Six died in arson fires. Attackers used sticks or boards to kill two others. Stabbings killed two. Six died in car accidents; two in hit-and-runs. One was strangled.

The violence crossed racial and ethnic lines. The dead included 25 African-Americans, 16 Latinos, eight Caucasians, two Asians, one Algerian, and one Indian or Middle Easterner. Men outnumbered women, 48 to 5.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_riots_of_1992

"Would I rather be turned away by some freak occurrence at a restaurant in Georgia or be a white person caught in the Rodney King riots. I believe that approximately 40 people were murdered because of their skin color in the riots with few if any solved. If anyone has the exact facts on this one, I would like to see them."

FWIW, this information is from Wikipedia. A total of 53 people were killed in the riots:

"The violence crossed racial and ethnic lines. The dead included 25 African-Americans, 16 Latinos, eight Caucasians, two Asians, one Algerian, and one Indian or Middle Easterner. Men outnumbered women, 48 to 5."

Well, African American Women in Naperville, all of you sound kind of bitter for people living in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago(By the way, how many of you did it take to write that racist post?). Once again, you have to play the race card to try too demean me.

I never claimed I was better than anybody, so you must have a inferiority complex. Fact is, I was told at each place that only minorities were being hired. One place the department head had already told me the job was mine and was over ruled by HR. The other two places wouldn't even take an application because of my skin color.

Finally, even though all of you African American Women assert that I would not vote for Obama because of his skin color, I personally consider character, not skin color. Obama's dealing with characters like Tony Rezko show his character. His further lies about his relationship with his church and former pastor showcase his lack of character. His lack of character and experience make it easy to vote against him no matter what his skin color is.

The only thing his skin color does is make it easy for people like you and your friends to claim racism if someone does not vote for him.

Mark, the point is there are no silver bullet remedies that our American public is conditioned to desire. Barack is not saying he has the remedy either.

The remedy is old-fashioned (lenghthy) conversations and listening. Not nearly as desirable as a solution that is accomplished in the time elapsed while a playing video game. Old wounds have left deep scars and a bandage will not cure the ills of systemic racism. We, as the U.S. will have to rely on US to embrace the mindset that we can be world leaders as U.S. citizens or we cannot. It's up to US. But that may require honesty, which hasn't been developed in an instant formula yet.

My impressions of the Philadelphia speech.

Mr. Obama is an educated and articulate politician; like most, he probably does not write his own speeches.

The begging of the speech, "on the road to freedom" somehow jumped over Lincoln and the lily white Northern States that fought on the side that delivered freedom. In the process (I'm rusty on my civil war numbers) hundreds of thousands of Northern troops fought along with newly freed slaves (who served in combat units) suffering horrific losses and slow deaths. No antibiotics.

There are no surviving slaves or slave owners today. Until the recent generation, there were few of any color that had much to pass on to the next generation unless it was a farm. The socialist death taxes may yet grab the farm too.

Mr. Obama speaks of his grandmother’s fear of black men; Jessie Jackson expressed the same fear when he stated that late one night that he was terrified by a group of teens following him down the street until he saw they were white. Jackson changed his demeanor and tune after publicly sharing this epiphany and I respect him for it. Crime is not an imagined problem and the people in jail are not political prisoners as Mr. Obama suggests in this speach.

Mr. Obama goes through the punch list of black American problems and lays little blame at the foot of the source, family destruction; Which IMHO is the central cause of poverty and poor performance in any race or nation. Beginning in the 1960s, government programs encouraged children without a father and punished work and independence. My understanding is that families with two parents and the same levels of education perform equivalently across racial lines.

"Corporate greed creates middle class need", until recently this could be dismissed as left wing propaganda. Clinton and Bush made it come true with wide open borders AKA cheap labor at any cost. The costs are substantial including national security. And yes, poor blacks (and every other color) are getting shafted as cheap labor is flooded in and low-skill manufacturing jobs are flooded out. Exploiting immigrants is the American way. Yes, they are coming for your engineering job next.

At the end of his well crafted speech, it sounds like he is appealing for more of the same government programs, continued wide open immigration and yes free trade AKA cheap labor. While Mr. Obama is a master at framing problems, he offers few new remedies.

Does anyone know exactly what indignities Mr. Wright suffered, is there a tangible list?

Obama Philadelphia speech up on Youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo

or type only Obama in the search field, it is the first video to pop

I searched for a link that has the entire Obama speech were he calls for his dialog on race. The only thing I found so far was the WSJ 3 minute video of the parts of his speech were he talks about his pastor. WSJ.com should get the pastor parts.

The same goes for the interview where he made his "all white people comment".

While I don't think I will be voting for him, I would like to hear him out as more than a bunch of network news sound bites.

I don't think I will be giving Mr. Wright’s church my money for his promotional video that he is being flogged with. If someone knows where this is on line, I would like to see it.

As to the assertion that Black Americans are treated unfairly in the legal system; It would be interesting to see study that shows how many are arrested, represented by lawyers in front of judges and juries that are all predominantly fellow minority inner-city dwellers? Are they racist? Who are the majority of the victims of the crimes committed by blacks, blacks?

Would I rather be turned away by some freak occurrence at a restaurant in Georgia or be a white person caught in the Rodney King riots. I believe that approximately 40 people were murdered because of their skin color in the riots with few if any solved. If anyone has the exact facts on this one, I would like to see them.

Ken, honey, maybe you lost out on 3 jobs because you were not the best person for the position. Or Is it hard for you to imagine a Black man or women could ever be MORE qualified than yourself. And no we as Black people do not sit around at family gatherings and compare color. I know it eats at your very sole to see Obama running for president. I guess you thought that would never,ever happen in your lifetime. Imagine people like yourself working so hard for that not to happen. Wow, finally a Black man running for president, with a huge White following. Life is good.

Another Lense, what would my true colors be? You had to play the race card right away to make your comments seem valid. You immediately attacked what you automatically assume that I am a rich white guy who got entitlements due to my rich white parents. You also throw out the typical crap about having to be black to understand racism. Funny thing is, white people don't compare their color at family gatherings.
If that is common at black people's gatherings, who are the real racists and bigots?

Ken, is there a chance you may have lost out on those three jobs due to attitude profiling? Perhap during the interview process, your true colors were shining through.

Funny, I heard him speak of his grandmother as a person who was very typical of her generation. I would likely say my grandmother is a typical, black eighty-nine year old woman who is dedicated to her church and family. Typical as in common. Sounds as if some of Obama's grandmother's feelings are common, her fears and her affection for her grandson.

Have you ever been referred to in a derogatory way by your family because of your skin color? I find it curious how those whose life experiences are shaped by entitlement afforded to certain racial/gender groups in America annoints them with some all-knowing power to understand racism.

Mr. Lynch is correct in his analysis that courageous conversations about race strengthens our country. Bigotry is sooo out of step with world leadership.

It would have been even better if Obama believed what he said. On Thursday in a radio interview, he gave his true view on race. When asked about his remarks about his grandmother, he said she was a typical white person who fears blacks. I guess white apologists like Jim Lynch will understand this view, but I view it and Obams's preacher's views as very racist. Having lost out on three jobs because of racial profiling, I have a hard time feeling any empathy for them regarding things that happened over thirty years ago. This is especially true when Obama and his wife reaped the benefits of growing up in American, yet stand behind her statement that they never had any reason to be proud of this country.
I guess some people are just easily dazzled by an eloquent speech.