It makes no sense that the city doesn't just settle the Furstenay matter. He's not wasting our tax money, the city council is. WHAT are they trying to prove???

There's a few people I don't care for but I refuse to waste a lot of my money to prove it.

Possibly we ended up with this soap opera mess is the fact that city council members are elected at large and often with a fairly number of votes considering the current size of the city.

Most cities the size of Naperville do not elect council members at large and have alderman or similar titles. It has been quite a few years since this question was put to a vote and maybe it is time for some more discussion on this topic.

I'm not sure the mechanism for getting a vote on the ballot or what needs to be done prior to the next election. Maybe the Naperville Sun will run a poll, a story, or start a new thread on this?

Quite possibly some of our current council members would not be such bullies or would not be so arrogant and unapproachable if they needed to clearly represent and answer to voters in a given ward or district?

It would make for an interesting study to see where the city council members all have lived for say the last 20 years or so. I'm taking a wild guess here that we would find that certain areas of our city have been over represented and other areas way under represented.

Wow. I gotta pay more attention. Our city is turning into a soap opera joke. City Manager leaves, Fire Chief canned, a councilman bully suing and a councilman bully barking back. A Police Chief w/o a concept of serving the public.

Lisle's looking like a smart move up about now.

Hey! Enough is enough already!

If someone posts something you don't like and you keep attacking that person personally it is only going to start a flame war. No one wins in a war of words and it only serves to eventually take the thread down or shred it to the point that a lot of people will stop reading it and others won't post out of fear of also being attacked for their opinion.

On the other hand, if you don't attack a person regardless of how off-the-wall the post was you simply do not give that person any ammunition to come back at you and the post no matter how silly will slowly retreat into the background. I do think most people reading these posts are mature and intelligent enough to recognize and dismiss an off-the-wall post without anyone else needing to point it out to them.

In general, these threads would be a lot better off if everyone could agree to argue the topic of the thread. Please leave off the personal attacks directed at other posters.

Taxpayer

Sorry to be so long to reply -- you addressed your reply to Maryann. A simple mistake on your part, but I missed it. I am the one who keeps writing the "dick-hater tantrums." (by the way....are you SERIOUS? I put up an opionion you find challenging and it is a "tantrum?" hmmmmmm....)

You keep making veiled references to secret things that only Dick knows. tapes. computers. witnesses. dick's son told you many dark secrets, which, though you cannot divulge them, will prove the many egregious violations of the constitution which are committed on a regular basis by city employees. but fortunately for all of us, Furstenau the Virtuous is going to blow the lid off the whole thing and save us all.

But he is ready to let the whole thing drop for an empty apology and a small bag of money. some crusader.

Your quote:
"if they were making the whole thing up, as furstenau alleges and his attorney feels he can prove, they should all burn"

unless of course the whole thing is about some blowhard getting his panties in a bunch and needs his ego massaged a little. in which case he will be satisfied just making them eat some crow.

Wherli has had plenty of opportunities to exhibit some leadership. It is a shame he has failed to do so, but then again leadership does not seem to be his strong suit.

Instead of working to resolve the problem or as a good politician would do... work to find a compromise... he has only added fuel to the fire. In doing so Wherli has demonstrated that he isn't a very good or a very savvy politician either.

He had a great opportunity to distinguish himself here, to bad he choose to blow it.

Let me just ask a question, IF the City paid DF the $130,000 he's asking for, and If the City gave him the apology he's looking for is DF willing to go away forever and never run for another public office again?

If the answer to these questions is Yes, I'll start raising the money today and get it to DF by the end of the week. It won't take long, If I just explain to people for a small donation all of you will shut up and DF goes away; people will pay big dollars to end all of this crap!

Who cares anymore about Napergate? Who cares about DF? he is NOT a nice person, I've met him, I've talked to him. He's a jerk. Bully is just nice way of saying a lower body part that extrudes crap.
Go away DICK!

tb and sun

i agree that the lawsuit is not about money, and i agree that pride and egos are playing a factor on both sides, but his lawsuit is not ABOUT egos or pride alone. you continue to ignore the most important implications of the suit.

furstenau has said he thought long and hard about suing the city and was very reluctant to because he new the bad press that would result. that is why it took him over 4 months to bring it and originally went quietly to the council for restitution. that patient consideration to what he was doing hardly sounds like pride.

he said the decision to go ahead, in the end, was based on the fact they had the intent of throwing him in jail for 15 years. he says that the city is lying about what took place and making it up,and he couldn't let people sworn to an oath continue to abuse the power they were entrusted with. he simply couldn't let that go as a moral issue, not an ego issue.

that is what this case is mostly about. furstenau believes he is doing the right thing from a moral standpoint. that is the point of the story that the sun continues to ignore and refuses to investigate or address. sure egos are playing a part on both sides, but see the bigger and more important picture in play and the serious implications if he turns out to be right.

Rachel & Jenny –

You obviously are taking to the Napergatian “attack the messenger when you don’t like the message” mantra. I stated that my opinion that the NGM received some notices was based on the tollway and Herald sources. I also said I have doubts that the NGM knew his license was suspended when he was arrested. I later told Diana that I would accept her “proof” (which, by the way, related to the license suspension and not the violation notices) and asked her more than once what that would change? She declined to answer.

Hmmm…so forming an opinion based on facts and then re-evaluating when more facts come out is somehow wrong? I think refusing to re-evaluate when more facts come out would be worse, no? Kind of like forming an opinion without any facts is also wrong.

Oh, and the tin-foil-hat conspiracy is not the 1990’s, but the 2006 version. Trying to tie everything into some huge ongoing conspiracy without any proof at all is just…crazy.

**********

taxpayer –

I understand. I just thought the streamlined lawsuit would be easier for most people to comprehend and also would reach court faster. I hope the city and DF both push for a speedy trial on this matter.

**********

To The Sun –

Kudos on the recent editorial. I also think the city’s outside attorney is wrong. This is not about money. It’s about egos (both sides).

T.B.

Jenny, Jenny, Jenny, Old Scott will match his IQ against yours anyday. Just because I sit on a ledge downtown doesn't make me an idiot. Based on your comments, you are obviously a MORON!!! Go fertilize the Napergate man's lawn, and while your at it, do BIG DICK's as well. It's nothing but fertilizer you are spewing!! Scott Huber, Naperville Mayor/US President candidate!!!

Hey Eli,

That was a cheap shot against Rachael. Her wording was fine. Her math was accurate.

She made a great impression! You Eli, made a fool of yourself.

Why don't you give us your facts if you disagree with her facts instead of bashing her?

She stated if a cop makes $100 dollars per hour when counting overtime and benefits, he will cost us 400 dollars for a half a day. 12 cops will cost us $4800 dollars for a half a day.

She stated 12 cops for a full day of 8 hours at the courthouse will cost us $800 dollars for each cop or $9600 dollars for 12 cops for a full day.

What she reasoned is why not call the one cop we need for an afternoon session and pay him $400 instead of paying 12 cops $4800 for a half a day or 12 cops $9600 dollar for a full day as the case may be. They are all sitting in a jury box for stand by reasons and are rarely ever needed.

As far as comprehension and math, Mr. Eli you must have failed both the English and Math parts of the SAT and ACT! The only comprehension you have is for how loud the music is downtown. Only an idiot would have bought a home so close to downtown bars knowing there is music blasting every evening. I am sorry but you sound like a fool to me. You need to be fool-proofed before we bother sound-proofing the bars downtown. Have someone read and explain Rachael's post to you before you make any further comments. Thank you!

Rachael,

You really need to do your homework. Not only is your math way off but your wording is embarrassing. I hope you take a little time on your next posting and seek the facts.

As I've stressed in the past, people can leave comments on the blog, but only a few people can make an impression.

Furstenau is a good discussion piece; he's also often becoming an easy target for the City Council.

TB and maryann

maryann

im not arguing with your right to have an opinion. my point is that your opinion doesn't matter in this case. you continue to state you believe furstenau did something inappropriate even though they couldn't prove it. fine. that's fair. just like oj. but, it won't matter in this lawsuit. the incident will not be retried. the investigation the police conducted will be tried to determine if any of his civil rights were knowingly or purposely violated or ignored.

you have no idea what took place during that time and if the police really unjustly targeted this man or not. we will learn. but one thing you should keep in mind during your little Dick-hater tantrums, furstenau wasn't falsely accused of a traffic ticket. they attempted to charge him with a crime that would have put him in prison for 15 years. tb will say that is ok because they were simply going after the largest charge. well, thats fine as long as they didn't make the whole thing up and lying about what took place. if they were making the whole thing up, as furstenau alleges and his attorney feels he can prove, they should all burn.

heaven forbid the same thing should ever happen to you. but, if you ever feel it does, i will support your right to fight for your civil rights even if it means i pay 2 cents more in taxes one year. even if i think your a jerk. i wouldn't wish that on my enemy. but make no mistake, it happens all the time. even in naperville.

TB
of course we can agree to disagree. i have enjoyed our debates

the reason i disagree with your comments about including burchard, fop pres, city atty., in the case is that you have no idea what furstenau may know. you have no idea if it is a reach or not. we won't know until the facts come out.

burchard is a big time friend of the cops and a wanna-be-cop. you heard what bob marshall said at burchards going away party about him being one of them and some comment about wearing a side arm. what if burchard knew abuot what the npd was doing during the arrest and did nothing about it? wouldn't he be culpable then? margo ely advised burchard on everything. you can be sure of that. including the letter. she was his right hand person.

furstenau is alleging that these additional people are simply continuing a campaign to silence furstenau and remove him from the office he was elected to. the problem is, if they are conspiring and lying to do so, that too, is a violation of his civil rights as an elected official. im not 100% sure how that works, but i know that it is illegal to do. intentionally trying to move an elected official from office under a false pretense is a big no no.

my point is lets see what comes out. so many of the people speaking against him are basing their attacks on assumptions. large assumptions. you have no way of knowing what we are about to learn. just give him a chance to present it at the appropriate time and we may be surprised. if it is a joke then lets crucify him at that point, but give him a fair chance to fight. if his civil rights were really violated in such a serious way, he deserves it. lets see. you can't say furstenau is reaching and be accurate about it in anyway. neither can the sun, as it continues to do.

By T.B. on March 28, 2008 11:54 AM
Maryann (again) –

Re: your “bullying” remarks

If I express my opinion I’m a bully? I’m a city person because I refuse to let people get away with calling the NPD names that Moderator Jim will not allow in these pages (but slipped thru for a time)? I’m a city person because I refuse to buy into the tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories from the Napergatians?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

T.B.,

When you express an opinion and it is proven wrong and you continue to dispute the truth after it has been revealed, you could easily be defined as a BULLY!

You went on record stating you had "NO DOUBT" the Napergate Man receieved notice(s) from the Toll Authority in a timely manner. Inside information obtained from the Toll Authority proved you were absolutely wrong. It was provided to the Naperville Sun. The Moderator never disputed it but refused to publish it due to privacy reasons.

He allowed Diana to discuss it in a round about way to tell us what the document said. He did not dispute anything she said.

After proving your "no doubt" factual statement was wrong, you continued to beat up on the messenger for 10 days. When you say "no doubt" you are not expressing an opinion. You are stating a fact. Opinions are usually worded "I believe," "I think," "I suspect," or It seems."

I would like to express an opinion that it is very hard to believe a guy who can not differentiate opinion from fact could have ever earned an MBA especially from University of Illinios. Maybe you could have bought a phony degree off the internet for a fee. I seriously have doubts as to your educational abilities and accomplishments. Just the fact that you felt it necessary to reveal you had an MBA when it had no relevance showed you lacked self-esteem!

Men with MBA's are out conquering the world like the Napergate Man. You are here living on fantasy land fighting Tollway Diana who was providing facts and documents during a vacation she had. It showed you had no self-esteem that you could not be a man and apologize when you were proven wrong. An MBA would have class and admit he was wrong. He would have confidence. You exhibited neither! You began BULLYING HER! And now you feel a need to deny you are a BULLY!

I thought Joe was the low life of these blogs. It is apparent you want to replace him as the low life of these blogs. Go for it! Joe has had the title for a long time and seems ready to relinquish it to you! You definitely earned it!

Regarding "the tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories from the Napergatians" 3 have already been proven in courts of law by decisions of 9-0, 3-0, and 2-1. Once they are proven in courts of law they are no longer conspiracies. They become verdicts and rulings that are recognized by ordinary and normal citizens. Again you continue to make false statements not fitting for a loser let alone an MBA!

The Napergatans are working on proving a 4th tin-foil-hat conspiracy. I am sure they will prove it since it is impossible to have 3 cops cars on the scene of an arrest in 50-55 seconds unless it was pre-planned in a conspiracy! The abuse of discretion during the arrest and the jailing after was just a little to obvious.

With a little help from outstanding Super Attorney Shawn Collins the Napergatians will have converted their 4th "tin-foil-hat" conspiracy into a ruling or verdict. It seems that is where we are heading whether you city bullies like it or not!

And if Shawn Collins wins the DF case that would be 5 defeats for the City of Naperville! Let us hope that happens too!

It is not surprising with intellectuals like Vanessa and Rachael writing on behalf of Napergatians and DF, and with idiots like Scott Huber wirting on behalf of the City of Naperville, that the Napergatians continue to gain support in town.

If it keeps progressing and unfolding in this manner it will be Scott Huber in the dumpster in 2012 and 9 Napergatians in the City Council in 2012! At a minimum 8 Napergatians and Mayor George Pradel who may not be defeatable since he is adored by both the Establishment and Napergatians!

Hey Rachel, Im selling the Brooklyn Bridge. Would you like to buy it? It's yours for $400!!! You are one gullible individual. Before you go opening your big yapper, get your facts straight. P.S., tell your Uncle DICK that Scott says "HI". Scott Huber/Huber for US President 2012.

By Anonymous on March 29, 2008 8:52 PM
Rachel my dear, if you had a brain you would be dangerous. Do your own investigating, you are wrong in your entire summary.

___________________________________________________________________

Mr. Anonymous,
There is nothing sneaky about Rachael. She does have a brain and she may just be dangerous. She is a normal Naperville citizen who gets her traffic violations once or twice a year. Almost everyone who is not connected to a police officer and can not be extended Professional Courtesy will get some kind of traffic violation once in a while.

When a Napergatian points something new out you say she is sneaky. When they repeat, you say they have nothing new to say. It never ends.

The bottom line anyone who has been to a Naperville Courtroom sees those 12 Naperville Cops sitting like potted plants. The only difference is they are constantly whispering to each other and potted plants don't whisper or we don't know if they do.

As Rachael said they never get out of their jury seats in the first 4 hours. Collecting a little under 5k in overtime doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! From our taxpayers money!

If you walk in a courtroom for any other village or town in Dupage County, you will see no cops or one or two at the most who may have been called. Other towns are watching their overtime. Not our town. Anyone who has been to traffic court knows if you plead not guilty, your trial if it ever takes place, if it does not get continued, will take place at the earliest in the afternoon. So what is the point of this massive waste of money.

Let us say this is Head Prosecutor Joe Birkett's policy and not the NPDs. Why does not our Chief of Police have a chat with him and inform him this idiotic policy is costing the citizens of Naperville 1 million dollars in overtime unnecessarily each year. Get rid of that waste and we would have had a decrease in our Tax Rate this year instead of an increse despite the DF suit.

And who hired all these attorneys that have charged us $275,000 for doing little to nothing so far in the DF case? What a waste? Don't blame DF who got an attorney to work for free because he does have a good case!

Any other suburban town would have hired an attorney for a fixed $5,000 fee and told him to knock it out. If he knew he was limited to 5k instead of millions he would knock it out quickly most likely through a settlement as better than 99% of the cases settle in our judicial system through negotiated deals.

What the Napergate Man did was rare? It was not typical! We all know that. He was on a mission to take on City Hall because they were on a mission to destroy him. He knew what he had to do, had the brilliance, money and attorneys, and proceeded to do what he had to do. He even succeeded!

Back to DF! I am sure if an attorney apologized to DF in private on behalf of the city and offered him half of the $129,000 this case could have been settled very quickly. The attorney would have even made a profit on the $5,000. DF was willing to wheel and deal from day one. The city was stubborn and was not. So blame Wehrli and Company for the 600k WASTE! Not DF who had nothing to do with this mess.

They voted in EXECUTIVE SESSION to waste taxpayer's money. They did not even give DF who was excluded a chance to raise his voice. Can you blame the guy for YELLING when he sees his fellow council men burning 100 dollars bills at the rate of one each 15 minutes. I would be SCREAMING if I saw my 100 dollar bills burned by anyone. It is good they burn them in EXECUTIVE SESSION where I can not see the lighting of the matches. Now I know why they have EXECUTIVE SESSIONS. They don't want us citizens to see how they burn our money in their private ceremonies.

DF had a right to ask for something. The bottom line is he was wrongfully accused and CHARGED. If a prosecutor can not prove his case he should not bring it. I guess the prosecutor refused to bring felony charges and rejected the case. The NPD can bring a misdemeanor charge without the prosecutor's permission. They did that. They need to pay the price.

As far as who is responsible for the waste of this $600,000 soon to be a million and the other million by the potted plants sitting in the jury box in traffic court, look no further than Chief David Dial and the 9 City Council Members who allow him to operate in this reckless and unaccoutable manner.

And who allows City Manager Bob Marshall to lie about the expense of the Napergate Trials only costing 5-10k for outside attorneys? You guessed it! Our 9 city council members who did not reprimand him for his BLATANT LIE! But they find time to reprimand DF for raising his voice to save us taxpayers all this wasted police overtime. I am for DF all the WAY!

____________________________________________________________________

PS. I have yet to see the likes of Joe, T.B., John Q. Public, RJ, JR, Ken, d. bone, dime head, Quick Question, Mr. Applewhite Boo or any of these hard core city supporters offer a serious challenge to our top City Official about his fabricated cost of the Napergate Trials. Instead they spend their time on the Naperate Threads harrassing Diana who obtained the proof they DEMANDED. Unfortunately, they did not like her message, so they attacked the messenger for a good 2 weeks. Absolutely ridiculous! Grow up young men! Join us and take on your City Officials who can not speak the truth! Let's all hold them accountble together. Only then will they stop lying and we can have a better city with accountable officials. We need your support!

Rachel my dear, if you had a brain you would be dangerous. Do your own investigating, you are wrong in your entire summary. The funny thing is someone fed you all that information and unfortunately they were wrong. What proof do you have about anything you just said? Maybe you should contact the Dupage County States Attorneys office and review their policies and procedures for court since you have all the answers.

If you read between the lines, Rachel probably gets alot of tickets and doesnt want the cops to show up so she have the case thrown out. Sneaky Rachel, very sneaky.

T.B.,

You are constantly trying to control these threads. Who are you to tell us bloggers if there is a relationship between Napergate and Dick Fustenau.

Are you the new Editor/Publisher of the Naperville Sun. Last time I checked it was Mr. Jim Lynch!

If I may refresh your memory, T.B., since you may not be a subscriber of the Naperville Sun. I am! In January I received my Naperville Sun and it had Dick Furstenau's picture imposted on a full page Napergate ad right on the front page. To me this indicates the Sun feels there is some kind of correlation or relationship. I agree with the Naperville Sun.

When you must have been a child, the Napergate Man was pumping up Dick Furstenau in his Napergate Ads from 1994-1999 at any opportunity until he finally got him elected. The Napergate Man never quit as he must of really believed that DF was a watchdog type of council member. He proved to be exactly that. He probably exceeded any expectation the Napergate Man had for him. He went to far in his watchdog duties. He committed the ultimate sin of exposing unnecessary overtime by our NPD.

So much overtime is wasted not only in downtown Naperville but in our Dupage Courtrooms by the Naperville Police Dept. No trial ever take place in the morning sessions when 250 or so Napervillians are facing the judicial system over traffic violations. Yet, 12 cops sit in the jury box doing nothing but collecting 4 hours of overtime each. Each cop costs us 400 dollars each morning. All 12 cost us 4800 dollars each morning. It just seems such a waste of taxpayer money. That may be a million dollars Chief David Dial wastes each and every year. Just from the morning sessions! I don't know what happens in the afternoon sessions! Alway pled guilty and got supervision as it is the most practical thing to do regardless of circumstances.

The cops should not show up till the afternoon when maybe a trial will take place. Trials are very rare as we all know in Traffic Court. So what are they all doing there. Collecting unnecessary overtime! Thus they adore and love Chief Dial who basically is giving them hand outs in excess of their huge salaries, fringe beneftis and 75% pension when they retire.

If I were running the show, I would have them on call as hospitals have nurses and doctors on call. If they are called to a trial they get paid. But to sit there like potted plants collecting overtime at taxpayer expense waiting for that one in a thousand, like the Napergate Man who has the money to demand trials, is ridiculous and a great WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

DF may not be aware of this great waste of taxpayer money taking place in Dupage Courtrooms daily. He probably never got a ticket or he would have complained. I urge him to visit a Naperville Traffic Court in Dupage and observe for himself the dozen Naperville Police who sit in a jury box like 12 potted plants collecting overtime. Our system is a total failure! No one is checking on it!

Why does not the Naperville Sun send a reporter to one of these courtroom and observe this taxpayer waste of money. It is sickening! The prosecutors make the deals in the morning in the rare event someone does not plead guilty and gets supervision. Almost everyone pleads guilty in those long lines without exception. We know the Napergate Man even pled guilty for his suspension due to toll violations by his daughter, even though he was obviously innocent after the revelations and documents provided by Tollway Diana. Almost everyone does that or you will spend 10,000 dollars fighting a 100 dollar traffic violation. So why all the police when we know everyone is lined up to plead guilty police or no police.

If one person realizes there is no police and he pleads innocent maybe to take advantage of the system or becasue he is in fact innocent, the prosecutor can call that specific cop for the afternoon session. We end up paying one cop overtime for an afternoon session. Not 12 cops overtime for a full day. 400 dollars is much less than $9600 dollars. What a waste of money? What stupidity? Who is responsible here? Could it be Chief David Dial?

LET US INVESTIGATE, PLEASE! THANK YOU!

Maryann, where do you get your ignorant information from? Gilligan, the Professor, the Skipper, or Mr Howell? Probably BIG DICK!!! Go get a reality check!!! Huber for Mayor/2010

Taxpayer –

I think that on past DF threads we have agreed to disagree. I hope new can here, too.

I think the DF case against the NPD can/should go forward if there’s no settlement/reason in this city. I think adding the others to the suit (Burchard, the FOP rep, city atty, etc) was a reach. I think DF should have kept the issue simple and straight-forward against the NPD. The rest seems like conspiracy-theory stuff.

We may not always agree, but your posts aren't acrimonious and I enjoy reading them.

T.B.

I will continue to support Furstenau as long as he looks out for our tax dollars.

Maryann,
I am pleased you find my post interesting. Now tell me, beyond that one statement, what does the rest of your post have to do with mine? If you want to post a note in praise of the Napergate Man, then go ahead and do so.

taxpayer,
It actually DOES matter if i think Furstenau did something. It matters to ME, because it is my opinion. The point of my post is that I dont really care what the court said. What the court said is a matter of public record. And you are the second person on this blog to point out the bleeding obvious -- that the court has already ruled. Thanks. I accept that.

The point of my post is that it is not the verdict itself, but Furstenau's actions before, during, and since the verdict, that give us critical information about the measure of the the man.

The point of my post was that I believe it is obvious (at least to me) that Furstenau sees this verdict as an opportunity prove that he is able to p--s on the rest of the council whenever he pleases. And he has that opportunity, not because he didnt do anything wrong, but because he recieved a not guilt verdict. And before you say anything, I will admit that, yes, that is the way our system works. And if the city was unable to prove their case, then shame on them for bringing it. But that does not make Furstenau's actions then or now any less disgusting.

I am also unclear on the reasons you give for the suit. Explaining as you do in your first paragraph why he has the RIGHT to sue is not the same as explaining his MOTIVES for suing. I believe they are the motives of a petulant schoolboy who feels unfairly paddled by the teacher for wrongdoing and wants to blame those who snickered at him. You believe...something else?

In the rest of your post, it seems as though you are claiming some larger issues of justice and due process are at stake. I read allegations of a coverup and secret cabals inside the city administration and police department. I read them in your post and many others on this blog. If true, that would seem to warrant more substantive action and higher demands from Furstenau than a simple appology and a piddling amount of money. If he is the true champion of justice, fighter for the common man, and giant killer you make him out to be, why offer to settle when you have Ultimate Evil on the run? It just doesnt all add up. Furstenau's demands feel like someone wanting to create embarassment and a bit of pain in retaliation for being called out as a jerk.

If he is trying to out some larger corruption or injustice, why settle? And for such a meager amount and a meaningless appology?

Maryann (again) –

Re: your “bullying” remarks

Heaven forbid someone not agree with you.

If I express my opinion I’m a bully? I’m a city person because I refuse to let people get away with calling the NPD names that Moderator Jim will not allow in these pages (but slipped thru for a time)? I’m a city person because I refuse to buy into the tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories from the Napergatians?

You obviously haven’t paid attention to my posts on this subject or you would see I hold both DF and the council in contempt.

Might I ask nicely that you try blogging on the subject at hand instead of trying to attack and label others? By throwing out attacks and labels who's being the bully, you or me?

T.B.

P.S. And Diana's failure was that she wouldn’t answer a basic question, which was even if you assume she is right about her “proof” what would it change?

TB

thanks. i enjoy reading all the blogs. even yours.

to you and the rest of you furstenau haters who call this lawsuit frivolous and overreaching. none of you have any idea what the facts of this case are. you have no idea how far they go and what documentation or witnesses they may have. there is no way to know at this point. we won't know if it is frivolous or not until after all the facts do come out. i just don't understand why so many people are so dead set against letting him have an opportunity to present his case in court. all of you who say he should take out adds and share all his evidence publicly have no idea about how stupid that would be. give him his chance in court.

if after all the facts and witnesses are presented and it proves to be frivolous then lets nail him to the cross and remove him from office. if the facts come out and we are appalled at what we learn and find out he was right all along, then we should accept the fact he was doing the right thing. we should also support his right to sue the city and hold the guilty accountable just as we would have that right. he isn't suing over something petty like saying something bad about him in the paper. they tried to throw him in prison for 15 years. that is serious and unforgivable if true and worth finding out if it is.

it doesn't matter he is a councilman. he didn't surrender his civil right when he took office. if his civil rights were, in fact, violated, we should have compassion for that and his right to seek justice, and we should all hope we never face prison for something we didn't do.

all you who say his civil right weren't violated because he had his day in court and was found innocent have no idea about the depth breadth of our civil rights.

i know the furstenau family well, and i know many of the facts of this case through one of his sons, and i am shocked and appalled at what they have been able to uncover and document. they have witnesses who have brought themselves forward within the city and the states attorney's office. they have tapes and computers. i also know there are about a dozen things he won't tell me because he isn't allowed to because they are too valuable to their case. he says they are worse and more damning to the city than the stuff i have heard. if it is true, the city is screwed because the stuff i have heard is enough to screw the city on its own.

i personally hope the city won't settle because i want it to go to court and have the evidence presented and reviewed by the public. we are going to learn a lot about our mayor, our police chief, the fop president, our former city manager, and a couple of our councilman. i will look forward to your thoughts then.

Maryann –

“This is DF's case and the thread is about him. We are not going to let Councilman Grant Wehrli, T.B. and Joe dictate what is discussed.”

I’m not trying to dictate anything, Maryann. I’m just hoping for a more focused discussion on this thread. Defend DF all you want (you may notice I am not completely against him).

I personally think mistakes were made in this case all the way around. Like I said, make Collins happy and have DF and the entire council apologize to the taxpayers for this fiasco. That seem fair to me.

T.B.

*Is Mr. Furstenau a bully?

Mr. Burchard, who all city employees worked for, evidently did not believe this himself.

He had every opportunity to intervene in City Council meetings with "let me answer that one"; or "Dick, staff is working at my direction can we meet on this in my offices". If this happened, can someone post the film clips on Youtube?

From what I read, Mr. Burchard maintained a cordial relationship with Mr. Furstenau up to the publishing of his (Burchard) letter. If Mr. Burchard were so eager to protect city staff, he should have done so while he was still their boss.

If I were a manager at the City, would I like my City Manager taking a dive when I was being asked tough questions or being put in the hot seat? Especially when I was working under the direction of the City Manager?

Did Mr. Burchard attend meetings, outside of City Council meetings, where he witnessed Mr. Furstenau bulling his employees? Did he remain silent?

Mr. Burchard was probably the best politician in the City Council meetings.

I look forward to reading his testimony when he is under oath. I hope that someone asks if his package and Mr. Furstenau were ever discussed in person or via e-mail as part of the same thread. Or, what verifiable actions did you take to prevent bulling?

*Why is Mr. Furstenau suing so many?

From what I can tell, it is the way our legal system works. Sue everyone possible, the judge will tell you who the defendants should be, and then the real action begins. It's the American way.

*Is Napergate relevant?

If it demonstrates "a pattern of behavior" by the City or its employees, then IMHO the answer is yes.

Is the pattern of behavior the proof in pudding for conspiracies? I doubt the Mafia ever sent inter office memos that could be produced in court.

hull filed 3 different police reports where the time, location and nature of the battery all changed. which of his 3 stories are true?

********************************************************************

Taxpayer,

There are similar allegations by Napergatians that the Napergate Man latest case also did not refect the accurate time of his release. Bloggers and friends are stating he was released between 530am to 6am.

The NPD is stating he was released 4am!

It appears the Dunkin Donuts had quite a few employees who showed for the morning shift who know what time the Napergate Man showed up to pick up his dog from there.

I suspect the motive for decreasing the time the Napergate Man was imprisoned, is to lesson the chance he has for a civil rights suit for FALSE IMPRISONMENT!

One has to conclude when you look at both cases together, you have a stronger belief, the NPD police reports are not ACCURATE as ADVERTISED!

It is ludicrous for anyone to beleive that if DF punched a cop on the street he would not be arrested on the spot. They were able to have 3 police cars on the scence in 50-55 seconds to arrest the Napergate Man for a toll violation(s) his daughter committed 6 YEARS AGO! Holy Cow!

Now with that kind of speed, you would think they could have 10 police cars on the scene in 50-55 seconds if a COP was PUNCHED so hard that he was literally STUNNED!

Something is not adding up! GO FIGURE!

By T.B. on March 28, 2008 8:16 AM
Marshall (March 27 @ 7:51PM) -

I agree with you that Diana has a right to come join us, but I also have the right to voice my opinion that not every facet of the city relates back to the Napergate case. Not only does not everything relate back to that case, but that case often becomes the focus of threads and dilutes the real issue at hand which is the DF case. I’m just asking that we not let the Napergate issue become a red herring here, too.

____________________________________________________________________

T.B.,
There are many facets of the Napergate Case that relate back to the Furstenau Case. Either you or Joe dug up the cases of the Napergate Man and posted them for us to review! Thanks!

What we learned from what you posted is the Napergate Man took on City Hall for 5 years in a dozen different courtrooms and so many different tracks for a little under $75,000. He used 4 attorneys to fight this battle. That case was much more complex than the DF case.

Now we have the City of Naperville foolishly spending $600,000 for a "he said, she said" case that should not cost more than $10,000. Our officials are the ones wasting taxpayers money by being suckers and paying attorneys what ever they want with the open wallets of the taxpayers. They need to be held accountable for their STUPIDITY in SPENDING.

Instead they turn it around and say Councilman Dick Furstenau, who is the most frugal person in Naperville, is wasting TAXPAYER MONEY. Blame the victim here! I don't buy it!

Just like the Napergate Man is sharp and can battle the City of Naperville for 5 years for a cost of 75k, City Officials need to sharpen their negotiating skills and retain affordable lawyers to fight what amounts to a "petty case." They are so afraid of losing they have decided that they will spend any amount of money on this case that could have been settled for at most $107,000. That was what DF was asking, and I am sure the reasonable man he is, he would have settled for a fraction of that and an APOLOGY!

So T.B., there is a relevance from Napergate that can help DF. I believe the Napergatians are going to do whatever is in their power to help DF win his case. We simply don't believe he PUNCHED A COP!!!

********************************************************************

PS. My suspicion is the City Supporters don't want the Napergate Cases brought up, because the Napergate Cases(3 of them) destroyed the City's credibility with the bloggers and taxpayers. The City of Naperville received 3 unfavorable verdicts by 3 higher courts. These cases paint a clear picture that the City of Naperville and its officials are not credible. It paints a strong picture that DF is very likely much more credible!

Until DF comes on and tell us he does not want Napergatian support or the Napergate Man's cases discussed on his thread, I(we) intend to continue using them to help him in any way we can.

This is DF's case and the thread is about him. We are not going to let Councilman Grant Wehrli, T.B. and Joe dictate what is discussed. You had your fun ganging up on Diana on the last thread that was archived. The fun is OVER!

Since this is a live thread I suspect you will see the 300-500 Napergatians bloggers support DF in the next few weeks. Of course the massive support from the Napergatians for DF, could cause Moderator Jim to archive this thread rather quickly. We have seen that in the past by Host Ted!

*******************************************************************

T.B.

I also agree with you that not every facet of the Napergate Case relates to the DF Case. I wrote 2 posts early this morning before seeing your comments, on the old archived Napergate Thread since they did not relate to the Furstenau Case but to you T.B., Joe, Ken, R.J, Mr. Applewhite and a bunch of City Bullies who have been bloggin there in a failed attempt to shred Diana's facts! So before you speak next time, try to do a little research on Jim's Blogs!!! Thank you!!!

To ME: Enough of that psychbabble.....I will not only be Mayor in 2010, I have set my sights on running for The President of the United States in 2012!!!! I will then have BIG DICK deported back to Utah!!! Huber for Mayor/2010

Taxpayer -

i mAy not AGrEe wth yoUr posiTon butt lIKe yOUr SeNse OF HumoR

T.B.

Moderator Jim or Ted -- Not sure if this went through the first time. Please delete if this is a duplicate. I think the first one lacked my name/e-mail.

Thanks - TB

Marshall (March 27 @ 7:51PM) -

I agree with you that Diana has a right to come join us, but I also have the right to voice my opinion that not ever facet of the city relates back to the Napergate case. Not only does not everything relate back to that case, but that case often becomes the focus of threads and dilutes the real issue at hand which is the DF case. I’m just asking that we not let the Napergate issue become a red herring here, too.

No, I have never seen DF bully anyone, but I’ve met him and I believe much of what was written about him by Burchard and the FOP spokesman (his name escapes me now). I'm entitled to my opinion and you're free to disagree. That's how society works.

You may also note that I didn’t call for him to drop his suit or resign, but only lamented how this case got to this point. Personally, I’d like to see Collins paid for his time (that is what he wants, right?) and the whole case to go away with apologies to the taxpayers from both sides. If the case goes forward, I hope the FOP spokesman and Burchard file suit against DF for slander or defamation for being included in this crap as I think DF is overreaching.

I never said that Diana lied and never said she was the NGM’s daughter. I did, however, state that she seemed to write in a very emotional state (which you backed up for me, thanks) and that her logic was sometimes lacking. If you wish to criticize me please stick to statements I actually wrote, as opposed to criticizing me for statements made by others.

Diana's a big girl. She can defend herself.

T.B.

Marshall (March 27 @ 7:51PM) -

I agree with you that Diana has a right to come join us, but I also have the right to voice my opinion that not ever facet of the city relates back to the Napergate case. Not only does not everything relate back to that case, but that case often becomes the focus of threads and dilutes the real issue at hand which is the DF case. I’m just asking that we not let the Napergate issue become a red herring here, too.

No, I have never seen DF bully anyone, but I’ve met him and I believe much of what was written about him by Burchard and the FOP spokesman (his name escapes me now). I'm entitled to my opinion and you're free to disagree. That's how society works.

You may also note that I didn’t call for him to drop his suit or resign, but only lamented how this case got to this point. Personally, I’d like to see Collins paid for his time (that is what he wants, right?) and the whole case to go away with apologies to the taxpayers from both sides. If the case goes forward, I hope the FOP spokesman and Burchard file suit against DF for slander or defamation for being included in this crap as I think DF is overreaching.

I never said that Diana lied and never said she was the NGM’s daughter. I did, however, state that she seemed to write in a very emotional state (which you backed up for me, thanks) and that her logic was sometimes lacking. If you wish to criticize me please stick to statements I actually wrote, as opposed to criticizing me for statements made by others.

Diana's a big girl. She can defend herself.

T.B.

I'm so glad I didn't vote for Wherli. What an embarrassment. The city councilmen apparently don't get it, the taxpayers are watching!

Marshall on March 27, 2008 6:52 PM - I don't want to dodge your questions, but answering them in a blog posting is just not gonna work. I'll get the info to answer your questions and send it to you via email/fax/FedEx/in-person. Just email me your preference. ~CB.

I would love to know how many of those posting on this site have ever been to a City Council meeting and witnessed the behaviors of various Council members. The multiple suggestions that Grant Wehrli is an arrongant empty suit and that Dick Fursteneau is somehow a victim are simply preposterous. If any of you have been to a meeting, you have witnessed Fursteneau's hysterical yelling, bullying of staff and fellow Council members, and arrogant "know it all" attitude toward anyone who would disagree with him. How Wehrli is being made out to be the bad guy in this situation is beyond me.

Fact: Fursteneau, a man who proclaims his commitment to taxpayers, is costing those very taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to smooth over his ego that was bruised from his failed Senate campaign. Regardless of whether you believe the City could cut spending elsewhere, the simple fact of the matter is that $600K is an exceptional amount of money that is ultimately going to be paid by you, the taxpayers. And before you suggest a settlement, consider the possibility that the City truly did not engage in any sort of "anti-Fursteneau" campaign at any point, and a settlement and/or apology would only create a false perception that they did. After all, why apologize for something you didn't do? Just look at all of your posts. You already think the City has something to hide. Imagine what you'd all be saying if they actually settled- there'd be all kinds of conspiracy theory postings on here.

Scott Huber for Mayor? Are you kidding me? Scott: are you on the Nichols Library computers again??? Huber for Mayor is about as likely to happen as Dick winning another election in the future. Lets fight this suit to the end. Bye for now, going back to stir the pot at the 204 blogs. (Those $204 people are absolutely nuts!)

"But you City Supporters ganged up on Diana by accusing her of lying and distorting while she was telling the truth and backing what she was saying with documents that she provided to Moderator Jim."

Marshall, I suggest you do a search on the word "lying" on the most recent Napergate thread. It might give you a new perspective on which side was most prone to accuse the other of lying.

Just a couple questions ...

1) Who are the NINE attorneys on city staff? Better check your facts.

2) Police are extensively trained? Take a look at one budget cut that Dick pushed for .... training. Can't wait for THAT lawsuit. One staffer gets hurt, or hurts someone else, because training money was cut. Nice. Good way to protect employees and residents.

Marshall,

I did not see your posts while I was writing as they were not yet posted. I want to commend you for your latest 3 posts. Your adrenalin seems to be flowing from those March Madness basketball games and transfers itself to your writings on Jim's Blogs!

I would also like to commend Diana for taking on all those numerous City Bullies the last 2 weeks singlehandely. She did a great job! But she probably learned a lesson we all learned a long time ago! Never to waste your time on an archived site debating city bullies who need to get the last word in to prove their falsehoods.

The city bullies seem to think if they repeat their lies often and long enough, they will be believed. Nonsense! Diana had the evidence to prove all their nonsensical theories and it is unfortunate Moderator Jim did not post her authenticated documents. Apparently, Mr. Lynch, is not yet willing to let City Hall have it. In due time, I believe he will finally open the floodgates and let our City Officials fend off the alligators on their own without intervening by throwing them a life line!

Her latest blog which was the second one on this site, was truly remarkable! Obviously she was not a Napergatian, as I was not, but it does not take long to tell us newcomers who is telling us the truth! The Napergatians obviously were! City Officials have been misleading us in the DF case as they did in the Napergate Man storied cases!

When will it ever END!!!

By It's disgusting on March 27, 2008 5:10 PM
Do any of you honestly have any doubt that Dick was out of line with that cop ? Based on everything you know about this man, and all the reports of his behavior with other city employees, do you honestly think that he even APPROACHED respectful ?

Or does it seem far more likely that his actions could more probably be considered as somewhere in a range between 'snotty' and 'abusive?' Probably something far more unacceptable than 'in your face' but perhaps just this side 'striking an officer?'

*******************************************************************

Disgusting,
Your comments are very interesting. There has been a lot of speculation that DF may be a bully. All speculation! No one has yet to provide a video tape or eyewitness to his "out of line behavior" in dealing with cops. So it is all hearsay!

This brings us to the Napergate Man who has had many encounters with the Naperville Police. He has never been accused of being a bully or out of line in dealing with the cops. Numerous witnesses have described him as always the gentleman he is! And somehow the cops are always seen yelling and screaming at him! What did he do to ever agitate them!

Twenty witness at the Huntington Estates Pool saw a cop yelling, screaming, and accusing him of wrongfully rampaging the Subdivision Pool. His amazing friend Bob witnessed a Sergeant yelling at him while he was asking for discretion to turn himself in voluntarily for booking due to being in possession of his lovely little white dog, Abby!! Twenty Napergatians watched him thrown out of City Hall, a public building he helped pay for, when he was distributing Napergate ads hand to hand! Are they all liars! Apparently you don't have to touch a Naperville Cop, let alone punch one to get them all riled up!

I seriously doubt DF would strike a cop. The Napergate Man would never endorse a violent candidate. He observed and studied DF for 5 years before endorsing him a second time. The Napergate Man did extensive research before endorsing anyone as we all know! As far as I am concerned the Napergate Man endorsed the right candidate until someone can show me proof that DF is "striking and pouching cops!" How silly to think a cop would be "punched" and the "puncher" would not be arrested on the spot. Simply unheard of in America!

My suggestion is for Attorney Shawn Collins to track down the Napergate Man to testify on behalf of his client. He would probably make a great witness. He has extensive court room experience! He has a reputation of credibility that extends 3 decades and backed by so many court decisions. He endorsed Dick Furstenau twice! Why would he not support him in court? My feeling is he will! It does not hurt to ask!

Since we know the Napergate Man has extensive knowledge from dealing with the NPD, I believe Attorney Shawn Collins needs to seek him out to testify on behalf of Council Member Dick Furstenau! I think that would be a great move and help DF wins his case against the Naperville Police and City Hall!

____________________________________________________________________

Moderator Jim,

Thanks for giving us a live thread to blog on. As you probably noticed most of us are not willing to blog on an archived site that no one reads. We have betters thing to do with our time if we can't make a difference in this town!

its disgusting

it is obvious you know nothing about what furstenau alleges in his lawsuit. he is not suing because he was found innocent and his reputation was hurt. he isn't suing because the cops couldn't prove their case. he is suing because he says nothing ever happened to begin with and the city framed him for something he didn't do, and he and his attorney believe they have enough documentation and evidence to prove it.

it doesn't matter if you think furstenau did something. the court ruled he didn't do anything. even then, as i stated, that isn't why he is suing, nor will it have anything to do with this case. that case has already been tried. the city will now be defending it's investigation that followed the incident. if they did everything right, then they have nothing to fear and furstenau will lose and then you can blame him. if he is right, a lot of people are going to owe him an apology. before you pass judgment on the suit, you should wait and see what the facts are when they come out.

the city charged him with something and had their chance to prove it. they failed. he accused the city of doing something, he deserves his chance to prove it.

based on what we know to be facts to this point, it is obvious that something was amiss from the beginning. furstenau and his attorney are confident that they can prove the rest. they say the whole thing was a sham and that he never did anything and they knew it. the city had 18 months to find a witness to corroborate hull's story, and they couldn't. every eye witness they interviewed backed furstenau's story that he didn't ever touch him.

hull filed 3 different police reports where the time, location and nature of the battery all changed. which of his 3 stories are true? he didn't file a report for 5 days after the event. by the time it went to trial hull said furstenau touched him with the back of his hand in an offensive manner, but in his first report, hull said furstenau punched him in the chest so hard it stunned him, and that was the reason he didn't arrest him on the spot; he was too stunned to arrest him. not only is that unbelievable, but which version is true? you tell me. when they were going along with the first version they tried to throw him in prison for 15 years for felony assault. which version is true? do you know? enlighten us

as far as behavior against city employees, are you referring to the ones that are uncorroborated and recently written and post-dated, to which he was never given and opportunity to respond to. are those the actions against city employees you are referring to. please. anyone in the private sector knows that if they don't do a good job, they will lose their job. it is written into anything we do. a councilman comes along and tells some staffers who are jerking around with taxpayer money and permits and tells them to make decisions, do a better and more responsive job and move on or lose their jobs and they want to cry about it? here's a quarter.

what about when furstenau accused burchard and staff of stearing a bid. he admits he said that then and still believes it now. i would love to see what was going on there. why hasn't the city ever come out to defend itself on the accusations? instead they denied it and censured him furstenau for saying it. if you don't believe bid-steering takes place in naperville, you are naive. wake up. accusing a staff of steering a bid PRIVATELY, as he did, is no grounds for censure.

i also can't take any more of wherli and fieseler talking down to me like they are enlightened men and above me. do you think that burchard, wherli, boyajian, rosonova have never gone off and yelled at someone at the city? i know for a fact everyone of them has. all of this is retaliation for furstenau filing suit. all of the people publicly smearing and threatening furstenau into dropping the suit are the ones who will lose the most if it goes to court. do the math.

By T.B. on March 27, 2008 3:22 PM

Diana, get tired of the Napergate thread so you had to bring it here on the 2nd post? I think the Napergate issue is a red herring in this argument. I think the real issues are DF, the city council in general, the NPD, cost, egos, and arrogance.

T.B.

____________________________________________________________________

T.B.

Diana, has every right to come join us on a live thread instead of staying on an archived Napergate Thread taking on 10-20 City Bullies all day by herself for 2 weeks. What evidence do you have that DF is a bully as you state in your latest blog? Have you ever seen him bully anyone?

But you City Supporters ganged up on Diana by accusing her of lying and distorting while she was telling the truth and backing what she was saying with documents that she provided to Moderator Jim. Just like a bunch of bullies. It is unfortunate the moderator did not publish those documents as it would have proved you all a bunch of distorters.

You guys riled her all up, got her all emotional and then you falsely accuse her of being the Napergate Man's daughter who is out of state in medical school. Medical Students can not blog 18 hours a day! Sorry but you guys are always ridiculously wrong!

The Napergate Man did an awesome job of protecting his kids during his 2 decades long battle against City Hall by never revealing his name. He protected his kids from the limelight. The last thing this Napergate Man would ever do is distract his daughter from her studies by asking her to blog about some .40 cent tolls she blew when she was 16. You and your city buddies or bullies, T.B., do have some loose screws that prevent you from having any logic and common sense!

It is ludicrous that the Napergate Man would pay 50,000 dollars a year to put his daughter through medical school and ask her to be a full time blogger on Jim's Blogs. It seems like it would be a waste of money and time. I know you did not make that final statement but your buddy, Bully Joe, who is the least credible person on these blogs did make that statement and you are always sticking up for him.

Chow for now! Got to watch some Big Dance basketball games even though my Illinios lost! Go Big Ten! We still have 2 teams left to support!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. By the way, I loved Diana's post which was the second one on this new thread. It was awesome and informative! It shows how much a non-Napergatian can learn on these blogs in a few short weeks.

hey anonymous

thaNks for your aDvice on punctuatioN? it was the. greaTest, i Don't know how i have made it, this far in life without. your adviCE!

don't worry about my punctuation, i get by just fine, and anyone who can read can understand the point im making. (whether or not they agree with it)

either way, it doesn't have anything to do with grant wherli being a total self-indulgent fraud. this isn't the first time he has seen fit to get on his high horse and lecture the public on his high and mighty point of view which is nothing more than fluff and hot air. im insulted by the way he talks down to us like we can't figure anything out for himself.

i will predict, that before this is over wherli will be named in the suit. not because of his letter or what he said, that has nothing to do with it. it will be because he is obviously hiding and afraid of something. he is blasting the suit so hard in public it is obvious that he wants it to go away.

if furstenau's attorney is worth anything, he should have already requested all computers from the city council and all the other people involved in the suit to be reviewed for any emails etc. regarding furstenau and his allegations. the truth will all be found on the computers. especially dial's, matchett's and burchard's. im certain if and when they get the computers, something interesting on grant wherli's will be discovered and he will find himself named in the suit as a result. and any defense the city has will go down the drain as they review all the rest of the computers. just a prediction.

i have seen it more than once in my own company where, during civil litigation, computers and email documents are review and the truth is always found somewhere in an email that was never intended for someone else to see.

Thanks councilman Bob I will give you a ring to set up an appt.

By Regina L. on the South Side on March 27, 2008 3:35 PM
Mr. Mitchell,

Funny enough, I see all these Furstenau supporters hiding behind the cloak of a blog, but rarely ever see them at city meetings or hear their voices at commissions.

*******************************************************************

Regina,
That is a false statement. I was one of the residents who appeared at the City Council meeting to support DF. I did not speak!

But I watched 30 of his supporters present their real names, addresses and speak! No need for another 150 to say what 30 said so eloquently and keep the council meeting running till 5am.

We are not hiding! No need for us to appear at Water Commission meetings as we elected DF to do the job for us. He did a great job and saved us at least 8 million! If he wanted us to show up, he would have asked us and we would have responded to him no different than how we responded to the Napergate Man when he called for our support!

Let us try to be accurate when bloggin!

By Councilman Bob on March 27, 2008 2:27 PM
Wow - Bloggers: why are you going conspiratorial on us?? Accurate info on litigation costs and their affect on the City's budget is available just by asking for it.

____________________________________________________________________

Councilman Bob,
I welcome you to blog with us. This is a great forum and a month or two ago we were told it was getting over 60,000 views per week. I am guessing it is over a 100,000 by now.

Instead of explaining to each one of us individually in your office which could mean explaining to thousands of us, how about explaining to all of us in one shot right here on Jim's Blogs.

1. I will start by asking you for the litigation costs of the Napergate Trial. We heard about them mostly thru 44 full page Napergate Ads that each were repeated multiple times. Unfortunately, at the time the Naperville Sun chose either not to cover the trial or only a few verdicts when it became to hard not to ignore them.

2. Secondly, I would like verification on what City Manager Bob Marshall stated to the Naperville Sun regarding this whole 5 year ordeal that took places in Federal, State, Illinois Liquor Control Commission, and City of Naperville Hearings, only cost us taxpayers 5-10k in legal costs. This really sounds very unbelievable! Further add that some of these multiple charges reached Illinois and Federal Appeals levels makes his comments more unbelievable.

3.One of the Napergate Man's multiple cases took the path of Naperville Hearing that lasted a year, up to the Illinois Liquor Control Commission, down to the Dupage County Court and back up to the Illinois Appellant Court where the City of Naperville was dunked by a 3-0 verdict. That is just one of the paths of the multitude of charges leveled against him.

4.Where did the money for all these trials come from? Who paid for them if we taxpayers only paid 5-10k? How can we find those legal costs if we go to the links you provided. I could not find anything. Where are they buried?

5. The Napergate Case has great relevance to the DF case. We all lost track in that case. We don't want to lose track in this case. We want to monitor this case as we should have monitored that case which from all appearances was 10 times as big and ended up in a dozen different courtrooms.

6. The bottom line is you know, most likely every blogger knows, the Naperville Sun knows and I know the City of Naperville Officials most likely lied about the litigation costs in that case. The top City Official apparently lied again as recently as 2 months ago. The alleged lie was posted on this site earlier today by "By Mickie on March 27, 2008 11:23 AM."

7. Councilman Bob, you are one of the bosses of City Manager Bob Marshall. You allowed him to LIE and did not REPRIMAND HIM as you REPRIMANDED Council Member Furstenau. Is that fair!!!

Please review and advise the Citizen Journalists as you are now officially one of us.

Welcome Aboard and I hope you provide some answers as it is unlikely many of us will be coming to your office which is really inconvenient when the matter can be taken care of on this blog site. Let us face it, this is a bad economy, and a few thousand people driving to your office is a waste of a precious resource called gasoline.

It is the Internet Age let us take advantage. The Napergate Era of gasoline waste to obtain information and tree waste to write those numerous full page Napergate ads is over!

By It's disgusting,

Neither your opinion nor mine matters in a court of law. DF was found not guilty. Case closed. The rest is history plus all the Monday morning QB'ing about who should have done what.

You know what? The City of Naperville has a lot of experience taking criminals to court. They should have known how strong or weak their case was from the start. Most good prosecutors will not take a court that was evidently this weak to court, yet Naperville went full speed ahead.

That either speaks volumes about the competence of our prosecution team or someone told them to prosecute regardless. Maybe they didn't care about the outcome either way, maybe they just wanted to embarrass and humiliate DF?

You might not like my behavior. I might not like yours. That is life. We can be as nice or as nasty as we like. That does not make it right or wrong and it certainly does not make it illegal.

Naperville police receive extensive training on how to handle people and situations. I don't believe a competent police officer would not have done the right thing at the right time if it had really happened as claimed. Case in point the Romeoville Police Department did not need 2 weeks to arrest their Mayor for DUI... it happened right then and there. No discussion, no legal advice, no conferring with city department heads... just a simple arrest.

If a so much more sophisticated and professional police department such as Naperville can't correctly handle a simple arrest then they need to look inward as to why it turned out this way. Someone in the NPD made some pretty bad mistakes and judgement calls. The City Council would be better off digging to the bottom of that than going down the current road they have chosen.

Just because Furstenau was found 'not guilty' does not mean he was 'innocent.' Do any of you honestly have any doubt that Dick was out of line with that cop ? Based on everything you know about this man, and all the reports of his behavior with other city employees, do you honestly think that he even APPROACHED respectful ?

Or does it seem far more likely that his actions could more probably be considered as somewhere in a range between 'snotty' and 'abusive?' Probably something far more unacceptable than 'in your face' but perhaps just this side 'striking an officer?'

Now Furstenau is using the verdict to bludgeon the city into appologizing to him for his own poor judgement and outrageous behavior. No matter what happens, the city loses. If they fight for what is moral, they cost themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars and may still lose. If they settle, they give in to the demands of a bully which only risks further emboldening him. The classic hobson's choice.

Furstenau has suffered no damage except to his ego. He is holding a gun to the city's head, but graciously offering to only inflict a flesh wound if the city will simply help him soothe his wounded pride. If you have any doubt about this, read his attorney's sickeningly condescending letter in the Sun this afternoon.

He may have been declared 'not guilty.' But I think a more accurate description would be 'not convicted.'

An earlier poster made an excellent point that there are many ways the City of Naperville could trim costs, reduce staff, and shrink the budget.

City staff inherently wants the budget to grow... more money, more people, more power for the department head. The more people you manage the more you will get paid.

Our past City Manager did not do a good job of cutting the fat or getting rid or the waste. There are a ton of sacred items that everyone is afraid to touch in any organization.

The City Council by and large has not been a group willing to challenge city hall staffers. For the most part they meekly and blindly accept what staff dishes out without a whole lot of insightful or critical thinking on their part.

So how about it Naperville Sun? How about starting a new thread where everyone in Naperville can post their comments and ideas on wasteful spending practices throughout the city? There are lots of things that various people know and see and have identified. Let's get all these great ideas out in the open and collect them in one public spot for the city council to see the voters thoughts and opinions.

Sometimes you just have to be enough away from a situation to really see the opportunities. This may be one of them.

I'm just willing to gamble that the collective effort and intelligence of everyone in Naperville can come up with enough ideas to save at least 3-4 times the $600,000 cost of this lawsuit.

Councilman Bob,

Glad to see you are reading the blog and thank you for your insights.

Now will you please do all the citizens of Naperville a favor and go back to the rest of the City Council and the city administrators and implore each and every one of them to:

1. start speaking with a unified voice. Enough grandstanding and mud slinging.
2. start exhibiting more dignity and professionalism. Our reputation is on the line.
3. work toward improving credibility. We want to trust you, but we don't.
4. start providing accurate, honest, truthful information. We can check our own facts and when they don't add up it speaks to #3.
5. stop the spin doctoring. Mostly because it is obvious and has been done poorly.
6. stop all the finger pointing, blaming, and name calling. It is childish and makes all of us uncomfortable. Speaks poorly to #2 and #3.
7. push the city attorney, the hired guns, and DF attorneys to seek a speedy trial. Let's get this over with once and for all and move on.

I'm so sick and tired of this. Tax payers cry about spending, which is necessary for the most part. Then they stick up for this clown whose feelings are hurt after he has bullied city staff for years.

I like the hypocrisy.

Nice work, Naperville. I'm moving out sooner than later.

Mr. Mitchell,

I want to thank you for pointing out to some of the other bloggers, commentators, here that the increase, from what Krieger and Wehrli both said, is from the lawsuit.

3/4s of it.

We can dissect the math. Point to different variables.

But it’s not a matter of how much the city plans on to spend more; it’s why this lawsuit seems so frivolous and its incurred expense to the city. Meanwhile FUrstenau is voting on the thing.

Like Fieseler said, he shouldn’t have that opportunity considering a conflict of interest.

Funny enough, I see all these Furstenau supporters hiding behind the cloak of a blog, but rarely ever see them at city meetings or hear their voices at commissions.

I have to say my opinion is torn between what I see as a waste of money by an arrogant bullying councilman (DF), and a waste of money by the other arrogant councilmen for not settling this when they had a chance. They’re all wrong for letting this get this far.

I think Grant Wehrli could have done a better job of highlighting the financial cost of this lawsuit and he should have also included his own failures, too. There’s plenty of blame to go around for this to not have been settled early.

Diana, get tired of the Napergate thread so you had to bring it here on the 2nd post? I think the Napergate issue is a red herring in this argument. I think the real issues are DF, the city council in general, the NPD, cost, egos, and arrogance.

T.B.

Oh no, The Hunington Estates Lady is in here; she is an outspoken high ranking member of the Naperville Heavens Gate Club, spreading her rumors like they are the gospil. Get ready, the Naperville Heavens Gate members will take over this blog, collectively writing at a dunkin donuts shop of all places, as they can't think for themselves.

Be prepared to hear, "I think" "I believe" from the Naperville Heavens Gate club members but never any proof behind their rehtoric. One of their members even threatened they could shut down the Sun if the editors weren't catering to their needs.

If I lived in Hunington Estates, I wouldn't want you LADY representing me on anything, maybe get a name more appropriate like " Tin Foil Lady."

Attention - By taxpayer;
I understand that you must be one of Dicks Friends. But I must ask you...
Have you even been past the 3rd grade?
Even when sending out a blog you should;

1.)Use Punctuation.
2.)Don�t use foul language; there are other ways of expression. Grow up and use them.

Even though you said to Mr. Wehrli and I quote you��we aren't as stupid as you think�
Just so you know, you are as stupid as I think.
In order for your thoughts to be read and accepted, it would be best for you if you present your thoughts in a professional manor.

Wow - Bloggers: why are you going conspiratorial on us?? Accurate info on litigation costs and their affect on the City's budget is available just by asking for it. The City's payments to the law firms involved are posted, along with all of the other payments the City makes each week, on http://www.naperville.il.us before every Council meeting. You can see what the lawyers on both sides are doing in the case by going to http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov, which is where you can access documents filed in federal courts for a modest charge. Or you can email me at fieselerr@naperville.il.us, or call me at 630.305.5333, or come visit me at City Hall on Tuesdays & Thursdays, when I'm working in my office there, and I'll get you the info you want and listen to your views on this and any other city topic. I'll even stay late if you work during the day. I'm confident that a person-to-person dialog will alleviate some of the anger and frustration being voiced in these postings. But then again, maybe this blog wouldn't be so interesting if everyone just stayed calm. Peace, ~Councilman Bob.

We were angry when we read the headlines in the Naperville Sun that blurted out that Councilman Furstenau was blamed for the large property tax increase. This sounds like a typical political "Spend & Tax" to blame someone else? What about the money and perks that were given to ex city manager Peter Burchard who actually "Quit his job" ? and the many other so-called small perks that have been given out this past year? Doesn't this maney come from the tax-payers?

Mr. Mitchell

I appreciate that you are standing by your report and I don't doubt that the city told you that the lawsuit was the driving issue. Still, it is obvious that many readers do not accept that.

Consider that your report states the "hole was $3.6 million" The lawsuit is $600,000 or approx. 1/6 of the gap, hardly the major portion.

Some enlightening information that wasn't provided might include the dollar amount of this year's budget compared to last year's budget. According to the city's web site, spending is budgeted to increase by $8.1 million over 2008. No matter how many times the city says that the lawsuit is the issue, $600,000 will always be a lot less than the $8.1 million increase! ( to my earlier post, in 2005/2006, the budget was $341 million, some $57 million less than proposed for next year. Is that increase due to the lawsuit, as well?)

Mr. Wehrli's analysis is sophomoric

By Mike Mitchell, reporter on

Mike, yes the lawsuit is a new expense, although not entirely unexpected.

So if Doug was planning on expense level A and now he has to budget for expense level B, the money has to come from somewhere. This is a truism.

Doug could have also stated that “the city could have minimized the unplanned expense level B if the City had settled with Furstenau”. This would also be a true statement. Incremental savings

Doug could also say “if the City Attorney had not prosecuted Furstenau in the first place, there would be no expense at all including the original criminal charges”? Total savings but not incurring any cost.

City revenue is derived 20% sales tax, 20% property tax and 10% income tax. If the economy were growing at 4% instead of zero or negative growth, the new revenues would cover the 600K without the tax increase.

2007 revenue = 276MM x .48= $132.48 MM

2008 revenue for .48 @ 4% growth= 137.78MM

This is the difference between 4% growth and zero growth for 2008.

“A rising tide raises all bottoms” is still true.

The auditors report states on page 4.

"The City’s governmental funds reported combined ending fund balances of $51.3 million.

Approximately 61% of this amount, $31.2 million, is available for spending at the City’s discretion (unreserved fund balance)."

I hate to take money out of savings, but could the lawsuit be funded out of the $31.2 MM in discretionary funds with no tax increase since this is rainy day money?

IMHO Doug (Mr. Krieger) is a great city employee; Mr. Wehrli should not hide behind his skirt to sling mud at Mr. Furstenau.

Mr. Mitchell

I appreciate that you are standing by your report and I don't doubt that the city told you that the lawsuit was the drving issue. Still, it is obvious that many readers do not accept that.

Consider that your report states the "hole was $3.6 million" The lawsuit is $600,000 or approx 1/6 of the gap, hardly the major portion.

Some enlightening information that wasn't provided might include the dollar amount of this year's budget compared to last year's budget. According to the city's website, spending is budgeted to increase by $8.1 million over 2008. No matter how many times the city says that the lawsuit is the issue, $600,000 will always be a lot less than the $8.1 million increase! ( to my earlier post, in 2005/2006, the budget was $341 million, some $57 million less than proposed for next year. Is that increase due to the lawsuit, as well?)

Mr. Wehrli's analysis is sophomoric.

We all need to put pressure on the City of Naperville for a speedy trial. One of the things that lets the legal bills run up is the minimum monthly fees lawyer charge. That is one of the reasons they delay and continue cases for ever... it simply means they get to make more money.

____________________________________________________________________

Anonymous,
This is a very smart and wise remark. It reminds me of the City of Naperville getting 9 continuances in the Napergate Korbel Champagne Trial case that took place in the Dupage County Courthouse. This is besides the Kangaroo Napergate Hearings that took place in City Hall and lasted a full year on and off!

In that case the city dragged it out with 9 continuances. And you would never believe what they did after that! DISMISS IT AFTER 30 MONTHS! And guess what it was followed by a CIVIL RIGHTS TRIAL.

Yes, I agree with you. We need to put pressure on the City of Naperville to move fast. No continuances should be allowed. Let us get this thing over with. They budgeted 600k for this trial according to Wehrli! There should be not one single excuse for a delay if the attorneys have been doing their homework since October of 2007! And they should be since they are being paid very well!

By Mike Mitchell, reporter on March 27, 2008 11:29 AM

I will clarify for some of the bloggers out there: Finance Director Doug Krieger did confirm Wehrli's allegations to be accurate. The bulk of the increase was due to the unexpected cost of the lawsuit.

I confirmed this with the finance department and his staff after reading the letter early Wednesday morning.

********************************************************************

Mr. Mitchell,

Very, very interesting comment! You had a need to confirm Wehrli's allegations to be "accurate." I doubt they are fully accurate and thus my quotiations!

But you have NO NEED to confirm that City Manager Bob Marshall's comment that the outside lawyers from 2 Chicago Law Firms, only charged us taxpayers 5-10k for that infamous Napergate Kangaroo Trial that lasted 5 years and reached very high appeal levels. Was that post not next to the post your confirmed? Did you somehow MISS it?

OK, Mr. Jim Lynch! This is why we think your newspaper and its reporters are biased and cater to the ESTABLISHMENT!

When will you ask Mr. Mitchell to ask that Mr. Marshall's comments also be confirmed. Never!!! Not in a million years!!! Do you care to verify only when they tell the "truth" or also when the may be "lying."

All of us bloggers can see through you guys at the Naperville Sun like we can see thru an open window! You guys are so transparent it is not even funny.

I challenge you, Mr. Jim Lynch, to explain your newspaper's bias in the need of confirming a "true" remark by a City Official, but the lack of desire to hold the highest ranking City Official accountable for a "false" remark!

Hope to hear from you but really don't expect to!!!

I see BIG DICK is hiding behind the moniker of "Anonymous" again!! Come on BIG DICK, step down!!! Can we say "Conflict of Interest". Scott Huber for Mayor 2010!!!

Mickie,

First off, lighten up! I politely disagreed with something Diana said. I did not "attack" her. You Napergatians really need to grow some thicker skin.

Moreover, I was going from memory when I made that comment, which is why I used terms like "I believe" and "I don't think". My memory is apparently faulty in this instance, so I stand corrected and I apologize to Diana.

-JQP

Furstenau is a bully. This is not conjecture, this is not opinion, it is a fact supported by his actions.

Now you may feel that he is a bully for the right reasons. That the ends justify the means. And that is what I read on these boards time and time again.

But a bully is simply someone who enjoys exerting their dominance over anyone they can. They pick on the weak, or at least anybody they think they can beat.

I do not believe the ends justify the means. I believe that there are humane ways to bring change to a system if that it what is needed. This is called Leadership.

I do not accept that the bully's way is the only way. Bullying is not a form of government. It is a power-trip. I also do not accept that the bully creates long-term change. The change only lasts until the next bigger bully come along and de-thrones your bully.

Unfortunately, this is usually long enough to drive the decent people out the system, leaving only the toadys who will stand in the shadow of the bully along with the rest of you. Because it is typically those with the most fear and the least courage who ally themselves with the bully. They throw their stones while standing safely behind the bully all the while.

If that is how you want your government to operate, then go ahead and keep supporting Furstenau. But beware. Because your bully WILL be bounced out by the next bigger bully to come along. More likely he will lose the thrill that comes along with bullying a given group. He will move on to find a new group to bully and you will be left in the lurch.

And do not make the mistake of thinking a new bully will not come. They will. Because there will nobody left with the guts to stand against them.

How ridiculous it is to blame DF for our economic and financial problems for trying to exercise his right in the judicial system!

It is rumored in our Subdivision that the Napergate Man will be filing suit against the Naperville police dept. for wrongfully accusing him of vandalizing our subdivision pool and shortly later that same summer of 2006 running his plates illegally in a selective and discriminatory manner and imprisoning him for 4 hours over a toll violation(s) that his daughter committed THAT HE HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING ABOUT! The Sergeant knew all that and literally borderline entrapped the Napergate Man into committing a violation so he could have fun HUMILIATING HIM! How disgusting this behavior is of a SERGEANT IN OUR NPD!

Would not even extend him the courtesy to take his dog home before surrendering peacefully for his booking. Felt a deep need to humiliate him! Would Chief Dial dare arrest you, hand cuff you, and imprison you, Mr. Wehrli, if your daughter blew a toll or 2 or 3 as an inexperienced driver at the ripe old age of 16? Of course not! This is called discrimination in our country! This discrimination you tolerate with your lack of action as a Council Member is abhorrible! It is disgusting! It is despicable!

Where was Grant Wehrli when these incidents happened? If he is such a righteous Council Member as he is pretentiously ACTING, why did he not speak out and investigate? These stories are all over town both in grape vine circles and on the blog sites since the PRINT EDITION of the Naperville Sun has felt a need to keep them sealed tight and uncorked!

You and your colleagues know about these incidents, Council Member Wehrli! You have chosen not to launch an investigation against Chief David Dial and the Naperville Police Dept.

I suppose when the Napergate Man sues us you will write your second letter to the editor and state:

WHILE DF BROUGHT US MUCH HARDSHIP WITH HIS LAWSUIT, THE NAPERGATE MAN BROUGHT US TO OUR KNEES AND WE NOW MUST FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY PROTECTION!!! PLEASE BLAME HIM FOR OUR BANKRUPTCY. IT IS ALL HIS FAULT! WE THOUGHT DISCRIMINATION WAS PERMITTED!!!

Here is your opportunity to investigate and prevent another lawsuit that you will most likely claim bankrupted us once and for all! Let us see some serious action, Mr. Grant Wehrli. Walk the walk and stop talking the talk all the time! Get with it!!!

I think the city should have fought harder for a conviction. When a case gets tossed it always leads to a lawsuit. Anybody suing the city for any amount of money should not be voting on how money should be spent. He should not vote on the budget.

The fact the Mr. Furstenau is a member of the City of Naperville is not relevant to this discussion. Not even close. What is relevant is that the City of Naperville is being sued. That is a fact. That is reality.

The City of Naperville could be sued tomorrow, the day after, the next day, and so on. When the next lawsuit will be files is unknown. Regardless of who sues or when the City of Naperville will always bear some liability; either to defend, negotiate, or pay a settlement.

People die all the time and blame others for it. A child could get killed because of a defective traffic signal. You can bet that would be an emotional multi-million dollar lawsuit making this case seems like a walk in the park. What, will the city council, the mayor, our city staff then blame the child or their parents?

Until the city council and the senior city administration puts aside their ego and arrogance, until they stop being in denial, until they stop trying to blame someone else for something they created they will not have even a glimmer of a hope of preventing more and more lawsuits like this from coming their way. How long do they think the good citizens of Naperville will tolerate this before booting each and every one of them out of office?

Ok, so the City of Naperville is upset that they have been sued. Ok, so they don't want to admit that they made some really bad decisions early on in this whole mess. Well, until they start having some frank and honest discussions with themselves nothing can or will change.

We never hear about most of the lawsuits that keep NINE full time lawyers busy on the city staff. Nor do we hear about most of the other lawsuits that are farmed out to outside law firms because city staff is either too busy or not competent to handle the defense. We only get to hear about a small fraction of the actual cases, the big dollar cases, the cases with good PR, the cases like this where emotion is exploited.

Until the city start asking themselves why are all these people filing law suits against us? What are we doing wrong? What can we do differently? How can we manage the city better to avoid law suits nothing can and will change.

The salary and total benefit package paid to the NINE attorneys on the city staff every year is more than the 600K for this one lawsuit. Those who are complaining about the cost of this lawsuit should realize that we are pay more than this every year, year after year, for all these lawyers and no one has questioned this or suggested doing anything about it.

Why is this acceptable? What is the city council doing to reduce the number of lawyers on staff? What is the city council doing to reduce the amount of work given to outside law firms? What is the city council doing to understand how and why the city is being sued? What is the city council doing to hold department heads accountable for lawsuits directly attributed from their department operations?

In the corporate world a department head would not last long if their operation was the cause of numerous lawsuits. Nor would they last long if their staff were directly responsible for something that caused the organization to loose a sizable amount of money. Nor would they last long if things kept repeating and did not improve.

Quality, improvement, performance. These are some of the hallmarks of what most taxpayers are evaluated in their work lives. We should expect no less of from civil servants. In fact we should hold them to a higher standard, not a lower standard because they are supposed to be stewards of public trust.

It is time to clean up all this nonsense in our city government. Voter are starting to line up for change. They are watching carefully. They are deciding who among our elected officials are part of the problem and who are part of the solution.

mike mitchell

you may be a good reporter but an obviously bad financial analyst. your buying the propaganda. it is funny how doug kreiger said in passing, oh, by the way, there was a large tax revenue decline also. THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR THE TAX HIKE. it is the number one reason why nearly every city government in america this year will be faced with either cutting spending or raising taxes. im of the opinion that you should cut spending, otherwise taxes will alway be raised and never decreased. a decrease of tax revenue in millions and he is allowing wherli to blame a 600k suit on a 400 million dollar budget? please. yet you and the sun did nothing to look into or explain how big the revenue deficit is expected to be this year.

and wherli says there aren't any areas that could be cut and not disrupt essential services from the city. are you kidding me wherli. someone on this blog has already listed several and there are dozens more. the test track is essential to him i guess.

there are about 500 factors, or more, that led to the necessary increase in taxes. furstenau's lawsuit is only one of many. calculated a 2 cent increase in the city's sales tax and you tell me what that number comes out to be in a yearly basis. when that numbers comes out to be in the millions you will understand that the 600k for furstenau's suit being singled out in a shameless attempt to blame him for the city's financial issues.

the city is being run in a very wasteful and financially reckless way in several other areas while the complacency of virtually every council member but furstenau contributes to it. of course, every time he speaks up and says they have to stop approving to spend so much money on wasteful things or in wasteful procedures, all they do is call him out for being difficult and not working with the council. go figure.

if you want to do some good reporting, look into the school boards 20-20 retirement pension rule that was passed by the school board a few years ago. it basically gives school board members and employees an 85% pension as a result of two consecutive 20% salary raises in their final two years of employment before retiring. then compare the amount of money the city is paying out in retirement pensions now to prior to that rule, and then write a story about how it is to blame for our increase in taxes. it is that rule and others like it that are bankrupting our city and money others just like it. we can't afford to continue to pay such elaborate, self indulging pensions.

there is no way anyone can blame furstenau before a verdict is rendered. if he wins then everyone should blame the npd and chief dial and peter burchard for everything that furstenau is being blamed for. it was their actions that lead to the suit. lets see the final verdict before furstenau gets blamed.

the people publicly smearing this suit over and over and continuing to blame furstenau for everything are the very people who stand to be exposed if the suit gets to trial. they're simply covering their own a--es, and doing their damndest to bully furstenau into dropping it. think about it.

and eli above is correct. all this could have been settled for an apology. that is all furstenau initially asked for. it wasn't until peter burchard went crazy on him for asking for it that furstenau decided to proceed with what he told him he would do if the city wouldn't just simply apologize.

Whenever I hear Furstenau, I hear about the Napergate Man.

I have lived here for almost 8 years and I dont know what this is about.

What is the story on the Napergate Man ? I cannot find anything which tells me what issues were about, who was involved, etc. Can someone tell me a coherent story about this? With some rough dates? No opionions please, if you can avoid them, just the facts.

Thanks

Just so everyone knows, Diana post on every blog involving anything to do with the city and she has an agenda to smear at all cost. The Naperville Sun has told her in several blogs that her comments were out of line and they would not print them. So, take anything that she says with a grain of salt. This is her life, to blog and lie...

Oh, she will repeat everything too...

Taxpayer and Diana,

Very nice posts! The Napergate Man told us long ago who tells the truth. He told us the City of Naperville is not truthful! He told us the Naperville Police are not truthful!

Thanks for reminding us with your latest posts.

It does seem that the City of Naperville is going after the Napergate Man's favorite Council Member after going after him for 2 decades.

Maybe these people in City Hall are bullies and need a punching bag at all times!

Now that the Napergate Man knocked them down 3 times, they finally got up way after the 10 count, and they think they can take on DF.

No way! He will knock them out and this time they will never get up on any count! It is too bad the Napergate Man retired before he finished all these City Officials off once and for all! I guess DF will have to finish the job the Napergate Man almost completed!

It is good to know Councilman Wehli is willing to tell it like it is, and let the taxpayers know that Furstenau's actions are responsible for much of the upcoming tax increase. It is undeniable Furstenau is not looking out for the best interest of the city and the taxpayers. Furstenau should never have filed this retaliatory lawsuit without regard to the negative impact on the City, and all of us. It should have been dropped long ago. Instead Furstenau is willing to allow our valuable tax money to be spent on lawyers for the city's required defense. And the arrogance of Furstenau to vote on it!

anyone who believes that the 600k for fighting this suit is the major reason to blame for a tax hike is not as smart as you thing you are.

look at the entire budget and the increases across the board in several areas, combined with the large decline in tax revenue. there are plenty of unecessary things that could get cut.

how about taking the 8 million that furstenau single handedly fought for and won back from the dupage water commission and paying for the suit defense with that? he deserves his chance in court and all this blaming the suit for a tax hike is nothing more than an attempt to pubilcly blame him for it in an attempt to get him to drop it. i would be willing to bet the city's attorneys advised the city and city council to find a way to blame furstenau for their problems to try and turn the public against him in an attempt to get him to drop it.

we aren't that stupid. at least most of us aren't

I told Mr. Furstenau that his lawsuit will benefit only the lawyers involved in this ridiculous litigation. Indeed most of what I said several months ago was echoed by Mr. Wehrli in this morning's Sun. I also told Dick that up until this time I counted myself as a supporter but if he didn't back off on his lawsuit against the taxpayers of Naperville that would change. His response....(" ").
I am now of the opinion that we should recall this guy and apparently I am not alone. His arrogance is profound!

I will clarify for some of the bloggers out there: Finance Director Doug Krieger did confirm Wehrli's allegations to be accurate. The bulk of the increase was due to the unexpected cost of the lawsuit.

I confirmed this with the finance department and his staff after reading the letter early Wednesday morning.

While the macro impacts of our global economy has affected the entire country--even Naperville--Krieger did say this increase was primarily due to the "unexpected" cost of the lawsuit.

By the way, I have no opinion on the lawsuit or tax increase. I just wanted to clarify a matter that is being discussed in this blog.

Mike Mitchell
City Council Reporter
mmitchell@scn1.com

To Dick Furstenau,

I'm ashamed and embarrassed that our city has chosen to put you and your family though all of this. I'm also disgusted and annoyed by the arrogance of your fellow city council members, the mayor, the Chief of Police, and the City Attorney. The final parting shot by our former City Manager only proved his passive aggressive attitude, insubordinate behavior, and lack of respect for his superiors. Good riddance!

The next many months will be long and hard on you. Keep the faith. Know that there are many, many voters in this community who respect you and support you.

Do not be tempted to even consider resigning. Do not recuse yourself from anything. We elected you to serve as a full member of the city council without limitation or exception. Hold your head high and be proud of everything you have accomplished as a city council member. Please continue to deliberate and vote on ALL issues brought before the city council. We expect no less from you.

We have also duly noted those who would attempt to keep you from fully representing the interests of the citizens of Naperville. They will be dealt with soon enough at their next election. Yes, it will take more than one election to run them all off the city council. Thanks to forums like this we can continue to remind newcomers and those with short memories what happened and who was responsible.

Do not be tempted to negotiate a settlement at this point either. You did the right thing to offer to negotiate. The city choose to bluff and you held your ground. Now the city and its minions are choosing to try to bully and intimidate you. See clearly thought this charade. Stand firm. Stand tall. Hold your ground.

At this point most everyone simply wants to see this go to trial. Let's let the truth come out and let's see what the verdict will be.

We all need to put pressure on the City of Naperville for a speedy trial. One of the things that lets the legal bills run up is the minimum monthly fees lawyer charge. That is one of the reasons they delay and continue cases for ever... it simply means they get to make more money.

It is time to let the big mouths on city council put up or shut up. They have a lot more to be afraid of by a trial than you do. The closer this gets to the trial date the more scared they are going to get and the nastier they will start to get. Expect it and just be prepared for it.

And when they finally come running to you offering that last minute settlement to keep this case from going to a jury... laugh in their face and walk away.

By the time this whole mess is over we will have a new Mayor, several new city council members, a new City Attorney, a new Chief of Police, and a new city manager. To bad the last one quit, it would have been a lot more fun seeing him get fired. Cowards usually run when the going get too tough and that one ran really far.

Oh well. The City of Naperville is long overdue for a makeover. Now is as good a time as any.

It is time for new blood running the City of Naperville. It is time for the old hacks and cronies to retire and move on to other pursuits. We need you to lead the charge for change in our city government.

As long as you are up for the challenge I will vote for you. Hopefully, one day you will run for Mayor. Our city has grown and changed. There are more issues and the issues are more complex. We need you and others like you who are willing to dig in and find solutions to these issues and who are not afraid to challenge the bureaucracy of the city hall staff.

Thank you for all you have done and are doing for our city!

Grant Wehrli is an empty suit. Move along Grant. I will fight you in your next election.

By John Q. Public on March 27, 2008 9:29 AM

Diana, I believe the $5K figure was what the city supposedly spent on in-house counsel. That figure might still be too low, but, and they obviously paid a lot more than that for their outside representation.

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Mr. John Q. Public,
Let us try to be credible and not attack a girl who announced she has to return to work and think you can get away with it. Diana is very credible!

Mr. Bob Marshall said exactly the opposite of what you are stating and much more what Diana stated. This is directly from the print edition of the Naperville Sun, Jan 20, 2008 on page 4 pertaining to the Napergate Article that contained that now FAMOUS QUOTE!

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Outside Attorney fees are estimated at between $5000 - $10,000, Bob Marshall said.

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Are you trying to imply the Naperville Sun reporter did not quote Mr. Bob Marshall correctly? I assure you Staff Writer Sarah Koci did. I assure you Moderator Jim and Host Ted looked her in the EYES and QUESTIONED her, before they allowed the comment she wrote to be published in that front page Napergate Article. We know they vet everything out very well from those old Napergate Days and Ads.

Host Ted is already on record stating he does not believe that figure! Kudos to Host Ted! He seems to have a lot of common sense. He has also called Bob's Amazing Post credible and it is turning out to be credible as each day goes by and more information is uncovered.

My husband is a partner in a Chicago Law Firm and Moderator Jim knows his last name as it is part of my e-mail address. My husband and his firm followed these very lengthy Napergate Trials.

Their estimate is the trials cost 100 times what Mr. Bob Marshall stated. Somewhere between $500,000 to $1,000,000 dollars. Yes, he conveniently forgot the last 2 digits on his numbers.

It has been revealed to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals that the Napergate Man paid low level attorneys $75,000 dollars for his defense starting in the Napergatge Kangaroo Trial in City Hall. That number does not include his cost for the Federal Civil Rights Trial. I assure there was no cost to him for that portion since it would have been taken on CONTINGENCY! But there would be a great cost to the City of Naperville since you can not get attorneys to defend on CONTINGENCY! And the city did use 2 outside law firm as they are in the DF case! The law firms were dug up and named by Amazing Ameena in many of her posts! The city used 7 different attorney to defend the Napergate case that were named by Ameena. The city wasted all this money and lost all the cases. They should settle with DF and spare us a REPEAT DISASTER!

There are enough facts contained in what I just stated, to prove that temporary City Manager Bob Marshall and Mr. John Q. Public are not telling us the truth and nothing but the truth!

If Grant Wehrli wants to have any credibility in this town he needs to call out, City Manager Bob Marshall, for his blatant lies, falsehoods, inaccuracies or simple lack of knowledge. He should not be calling out DF who is doing nothing more than exercising his legitimate rights as an American Citizen!

I am sorry, Mr. Grant Wehrli, but your letter to the editor in today's print edition of the Naperville Sun was disgusting! It was SHAMEFUL as someone said before me!

Kudos to Mr. Wehrli for giving a "tell it like is report" in his letter of profund interest regarding Mr. Furstenau's Legal Bill that we the taxpayers will have to pay. As a senior on a fixed income with it's tight budget, I resent that I will have to pay my share to placate this man's 'ego.'! Should Mr. Furstenau seek election, I surely will vote early and often!

It is Grant Wehrli who should resign for showboating and he will not get my vote come the next election. Dick has every right to defend himself; it is the rest of the city council that is to blame. Dick is owed an apology and the city should pay him his money.

what a bunch of Bull S---!

wherli is a complete and total idiot. you cant tell me the 600k over 2 years they are budgeting is the main reason for the largest tax hike in over 17 years. only a moron would believe that. the 600k in a mere drop in the bucket when compared to the nearly 400 million/year city budget. what a crock! does this guy think we are that stupid.

what this tells me is that he is attacking this lawsuit as hard as he is because he too is afraid of what it might reveal. it is one thing to believe this bull, but to publicly smear the suit so hard and forcefully is transparent. he is trying to pound furstenau into submission and dropping the suite. lets see what this suit reveals about wherli in the end. lets confiscate his computer and see whats on it when it comes to his involvement with this whole thing. he should be blaming the npd.

if you want to blame the tax hike on something, there are far more credible reasons. how about the large decrease in tax revenue. how about the enormous pensions being paid to police and school board members. the school board 20-20 rule is what is making this city go broke. if you don't know what the 20-20 rule is, you should find out. it is the most appalling legislation ever passed in the city's history. it single handedly is bankrupting the city by lining school board members and employees pocket's with money. (stolen money if you ask me) we can't afford to pay school board members and employees what amounts to 85% pensions and full medical coverage. we can't afford it with out paying higher taxes. it is finally catching up with us and bankrupting us. the 20-20 rule and many of the other things like police pensions and overtime which are also bankrupting us, furstenau has been fighting against while the other councilman support and do nothing about. blame the tax hike on their complacency.

im insulted that wherli would blame this 600k, 2 year budget as the reason for the largest tax hike in 17 years in a 400 million/year budget. give me a break. wherli, you are either a complete and total moron or you think i am. either way, you don't deserve to occupy that office.

lets pass judgement on how valid the lawsuit is when its over. if furstenau is right and wins, wherli should resign and apologize. the consequences of furstenau being right are far greater than the 600k it will cost to learn and expose the truth. at that point, will wherli and fieseler and boyajian come out and blame the npd for causing the suit by arresting someone and trying to throw him in prison for 15 years over nothing? i doubt it.

fieseler should also shut up. furstenau should excuse himself from voting on a 400 million dollar budget because of the 600k his suit is costing the city? are you kidding fieseler? have you ever recused yourself over votes on issues brought by a son's law firm? furstenau was elected to vote on the budget and that is exactly what he will do. the city has a legal fund budget of several million, so why do they need the biggest tax hike to cover 600k?

we aren't as stupid as you think wherli or fieseler. i hope either of you end up in the suit because of your obvious fear of it and what it may reveal. only a guilty person would fight this suit as hard as you are rather then allow the man to exercise his right to fight for his due process which was denied him.

Mr. Wherli please be honest. It takes two to fight a lawsuit, Mr. Furstenau can't do it without the city's help. If you settle, it will go away for less than $600,000.

More to the point, stop with the myth about taxes. I've lived here for 18 years and my taxes have always gone up. Sure the rate may have gone done occassionally, but my bill, in dollars, has increased -- I believe it would have increased even more if not for Mr. Furstenau's help.

Are we to believe that no other components of our budget increased this year? Are we to believe that no other factors beside litigation contributed to this pending increase? How about the severance package to Mr. Burchard? How about the carillon? How about the useless test track, the new public works building? How about increases in city staff? New parking decks partially paid for with property tax dollars? Please! Mr. Furstenau is not solely to blame for the tax increase! I expect that the suit is not even the major factor contributing to the increase.

City government has grown exponentially since I've lived here and it was paid for by growth. It is no secret that once the growth begins to subside, the chickens come home to roost and taxes have to go up to pay for the excess that was previously masked by growth. This is only the beginning...taxes will continue to increase, unless our government begins to live within our means and spend our tax dollars in more considered manner.

Put the repsonsibility where it belongs -- your actions contribute to the tax rate, too!

Mr. Wehrli asks us to believe that Mr. Furstenau is responsible for:

*The free-trade-led collapse of the dollar leading to higher fuel costs; Which also increases the cost of almost everything we buy including asphalt for our streets; It also decreases the amount of disposable income that people have to spend on other goods and services; Which decreases the sales tax revenue for the city, state and county.

*Record or near record snow falls also increase the amount the city has to spend on gas, drivers, truck maintenance and yes salt.

*Irresponsibly lax regulation of the mortgage market led to the mushrooming of home prices and "market adjustment" (collapse) that we are currently experiencing. Building activity and new and existing home sales are way off even in Naperville. 60% of all money used to buy loans has vaporized leading to the fire sale of Baer Stearns (sp), the fourth financial institution to buy the farm so far.

*Outsourcing of engineering jobs from Naperville to China, and a large relocation of jobs to Houston. Both of these reduce the disposable income of citizens which hurts the local housing market and sales tax receipts.

Mr. Wehrli's grasp of economics lead me to believe he is not an economist, his calls to abridge Mr. Furstanau's constitutional rights lead me to question his commitment to our legal system.

"Since none of the City Council members disputed Mr. Marshall's cost figures of 5-10k to defend against the Napergate Man, which was only made 2 months ago in the print edition of the Naperville Sun, why should we believe their $600,000 dollars as an accurate number. It needs to be questioned."

Diana, I believe the $5K figure was what the city supposedly spent on in-house counsel. That figure might still be too low, but, and they obviously paid a lot more than that for their outside representation, but I don't think they were claiming that $5K was the sum total of the cost of the legal battle with the NGM.

Maybe next time Wherli will engage his brain before he opens his mouth or maybe could do himself a favor and learn some basics of accounting and trend analysis.

For someone who has so little personal credentials for the office and is running mostly on the name recognition of his ancestors he would do their memory and reputation an honor by not making himself a fool in public.

Or maybe he just doesn't believe in a citizens right to due process? Sure sounds like it. If that is the case we should all have cause to ask why would we want to vote to re-elect someone who does not believe in and support the laws of our land?

The City Council has had more than enough opportunity to privately negotiate a settlement. They only need to look to themselves and they shouldn't be blaming anyone one else if they are running up large legal bills.

The City Council will have more than enough opportunity to gleefully kick up their heels IF AND ONLY IF they successfully defend the lawsuit. On the other hand it the City Council looses this lawsuit they will all get kicked out of office... and they know it.

This lawsuit is not going away. All the dirty politics and whining isn't gaining them any public sympathy either. In fact it is working against them. When it is us vs "City Hall" most people are always going to support the little guy... not the government machine.

Let's not forget that the City already lost their case on the root factors that precipitated this whole mess which does not bode well for them in the court of public opinion either.

A reasonable and prudent city council member would sit down and shut up until all the dust is settled on a case like this. Obviously Mr Wherli chooses to be neither reasonable or prudent. Shame on him.

Frankly his behaviour as well as the behaviour of several other key city council members has been clearly at the level of a school yard bully. Most people are sick and tired of dealing with people who manifest bully behaviour. We don't tolerate it in our own kids. We don't tolerate it from other kids picking on our kids. And there are a lot of people who will no longer tolerate it in the work place.

Most of us are fed up with bully's. We don't want to deal with this type of behaviour and we don't have any respect for people who act like this.

Maybe Mr. Wherli just didn't learn how to play well with others as a child. He still has the opportunity to grow up and display some maturity and respect.

The big question for every voting citizen is do we want bullies sitting on our City Council?

If ever there was a need for a recall it is now. This official is not working for the citizens of Naperville but against their interest. I have read about his case since it was first reported to include the arrogance in which he conducts himself. He should do us all a favor and step down.

I think the letter Grant Wehrli wrote was OUTSTANDING! Mr. Furstenau should RESIGN FROM OFFICE!!! How can he sit up there and represent Naperville when he is suing Naperville! LEAVE DICK!!!

Moderator JIm,

This will be a very interesting thread. Suddenly the City of Naperville decided to blame all its economic problems on the Dick Furstenau lawsuit.

All its fiscals problems are blamed on DF because he exercised his right to sue the city for an injustice no different than the Napergate Man battling the City 3 times in various court battles. DF has every right to sue just as the Napergate Man did.

And let us give him his due process in a court of law. No one thought the Napergate Man was unjustly treated by the Naperville Police and City Officials. It turns out he was! So maybe DF was also unjustly accused by the NPD.

Let us not forget the Police Chief in town has not changed from the Napergate Era. It is still Chief David Dial. Maybe the problem is not with DF! Maybe the problem is with a police dept. that does not respect the rights of some of its citizens and council members.

DF and the Napergatge Man do have one thing in common. To a great extent they are anti-establishment. To a great extent they are anti-corruption! To a great extent they are for civil rights!

DF did not rise to become a City Council member through the normal channels that the estblishment designs and configures. He went straight to the public and presented his agenda.

The establishment rallied against DF in 1995. The Napergate Man gave him massive support through his network of Napergatians and Napergate ads. He was the Napergate Man's favorite candidate. The estbalishment forces were just too powerful in 1995 and unfortunately DF lost.

By 1999 the Establishment had lost its credibility after losing so many court battles to the Napergate Man. He exposed them! He endorsed DF again and rallied his Napergatian supporters to go out and vote for DF. They finally put him over the hump and helped get him elected.

That is a little history to explain why establishment council member don't like DF despite the fact that he is the hardest working member of the Council. He saved us taxpayers 60,000,0000 dollars or some awesome number like that on our water bills! He should be loved by his fellow council members.

As far as this 600,000 dollars need to defend against DF, I have to question this number. Pro-tem City Manager Bob Marshall told us that it only cost 5k-10k to defend against the Napergate Man's multiple court battles including one civil rights lawsuit. The City of Naperville used 7 attorneys named by Blogger Ameena after extensive research at the library. Besides attorneys many other officials were involved including a court reporter that charged roughly $50,000 alone for the lengthy court record at up to $8.20 cents per page.

Since none of the City Council members disputed Mr. Marshall's cost figures of 5-10k to defend against the Napergate Man, which was only made 2 months ago in the print edition of the Naperville Sun, why should we believe their $600,000 dollars as an accurate number. It needs to be questioned.

I should point out that 2 outside law firms were used to assist in the Napergate Man's case besides an in house legal dept. with 9 staff members.

It is time for the City of Naperville to come clean. It either costs 5-10k for these trials or it cost millions! Which is it Mr. Wehrli if you are going to have any credibility as a Council Member and the Establishment family? Tell us which is it! Please be honest with us!

Someone in the City is not telling us the truth. We can no longer believe our City Officials!

If it only costs 5-10k to fight the Napergate Man for 5 years in so many different courtrooms including 2 Appellant courts, stop feeding us this possible misinformation that it suddenly costs 60-120 times to defend against DF. That is OUTRAGEOUS! One or the other is an UNTRUTH! Which is it???

Your allegations of litigation expenses are a SMEAR CAMPAIGN against DICK FUSTENAU! It is OBVIOUS!

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Mr. Moderator,

My stay at home vacation ends this morning. I have to go back to work shortly. I appreciate all the bloggin you allowed me to do the last 10 days or so. It has been fun, but I must return to the grind of the real world and make a living! Have fun with your bloggers! And thanks for posting the majority of my blogs!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't there a point when this all could have been settled with a simple apology?