Murder on 87th St. - do you feel safe?

Hopefully it's not random violence, which is much scarier.

It seems to me it's probably more gang related. Although very unfortunate to have that in this city, I'm hoping that these people were somehow known to each other.

My heart goes out to the family.

I think this is a strong indication that Naperville Cops need to spread out to all areas of town and not focus on downtown that is relatively safe especially because of the numerous doorman and bouncers in so many bars.

Plus you have valet personnal everywhere keeping an eye on the downtown area. With more soon to be coming since the City Council authorized Jilly's to have valet parking in addition to so many other establishments in the downtown area.

It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area.

I hope Police Chief David Dial considers this a wake up call.

I am lucky if I see a police car once a year drive in my subdivision. We pay more taxes than those downtown business and even subsidize them yet get no police protection unless we call.

It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. I hope Chief Dial addresses the ridiculous concentration in downtown area of the police spread.

No intersection should have 12 cops especially when it is only a mile away from the Aurora Police headquarters that can provide immediate and quick help.

And as mentioned recently by Napergatians, why are all these cops sitting as potted plants in the courtrooms instead of patrolling the streets while being paid overtime. If a prosecutor calls them while they are on duty, I am sure they can be in the Wheaton Courthouse in 10-15 minuts as they tend to speed anyway even during non-emergency driving!

I hope the Naperville Sun writes an editiorial supporting the Napergatians viewpoint on police manpower waste in the downtown area while other areas of town are completely neglected resulting in this horrific murder which we just witnessed!

which is as sleepy as it is safe?

This is the real world, things happen even in Naperville. I recall a few years back a man got shot in the leg, less than a mile from that location in the Woodlake Neighborhood.

Naperville is not immune.

Of course, we are rather known for killing our own children or attempts too.

To Sarah,

Wake-up call? An assigned hit to a 23-year-old living in a residential area is nearly impossible to avoid via police. You're an idiot. Do you have any idea how many domestics go unreported and unconvicted?

Police are there to serve and protect; they're not machines that can foreshadow events like this happening. It's not like Naperville is a haven for gang activity or organized crime.

This is an anamoly.

And why the reference to Napergate? You have no idea the magnititude of violence that occurs in Chicago daily. This is merely an unfortunate event that happens to people in that line of business--drug dealing.

Do I feel Safe ???? WHAT A STUPID QUESTION !!! More sensationalism by the Naperville Sun !!!

when you deal with cocaine you run a risk. when you sell to black people your risk is much higher. He had been doing this a while, things like this WILL happen eventually.

Barry,

I don't feel Sarah was out of line. As you stated this was a drug deal involving at least 3 people. The NPD has a responsibility of busting these drug dealers before they reach the point of murder.

The NPD failed in uncovering this drug dealing on time. Armed bandits were running around on our streets. Instead they are conspiring to arrest the Napergate Man for a 6 year toll violation committed by his daughter. They should be conspiring to knock out the drug dealers if they were TRUE POLICE instead of PUPPETS for the ESTABLISHMENT trying to keep them in power at the expense of DF!

What Sarah is saying is if the police spent less time sitting as potted plants in those jury boxes or checking out the beautiful girls on Chicago Ave, this may have never happened. It may have been prevented!

We don't need all those cops on Chicago Ave. doing nothing. In the winter they get the job done with 2 cops. On New Year's Eve, I was downtown Naperville and they got the job done with 3 cops. I personally observed it. There were more people downtown on New Year's Eve than on any summer weekend. They were also much more intoxicated. And the bars were open one hour later! All handled with 3 cops on Chicago Ave. instead of the dozen in the summer. The Chief of Police needs to explain this waste of overtime money in the summer. The Napergatians are the ones who are trying to hold him accoutable since no one else is, so that is why Sarah mentioned Napergate. The purpose of Napergate and Napergatians is to uncover cover-ups and waste of money! What is so hard to understand?

The Napergatains are a brave group who is trying to expose what no one else is willng to expose. That is why they once got 4 out of 4 candidates elected to the City Council. I believe the year was 1999! It was also the year they finally got DF on the city council!

So when the NPD puts 12 cops out in the summer on bicycles and brand new spanking decked out motorcycles it is for show and not for substance. It seems like the cops are more interested in impressing the ladies than enforcing the law and truly protecting the citizens.

It is time to get the cops where they are needed. It is time these cops play undercover roles and bust these drug rings instead of being potted plants in jury rooms collecting OVERTIME PAY at taxpayer expense!

Sarah has a great point and I think she made a lot of sense.

You need to wake up. How dare a low life like you call her an idiot for daring to express an opinion on this blog site. I will not lower myself and call you anything. I am sure the bloggers will judge you for who you are!

Amazing. If you live here in Stillwater. Nobody communicated to the residents abnout what was going on. The Fox News chopper woke all the kids up and the parents too. After some searching, there was a flash on the news. nothing by the Stillwater Homeowners Association - they prefer to send silly ads than address a crime situation. Then, try to exit to route 59 and the Cops just laugh when you ask "is it safe"? Someone murdered on the street I take walks on, my kids ride bikes, and swim seconds from the scene. Could someone advise the residents next time?

Amazing. try living in Stillwater. The homeowners association is mor than happy to send ads to your email, but address a situation like this? Never, that might mar our image. The fox news chopper woke up all the kids (and then the parents), but nobody tells us what is going on. 87th is closed - if you asked the police wandering the scene in the morning if things are safe, they laughed! well, keep laughing while my $12K taxes keep you employed - we were all scared...haha. Hope your families don't get a similar response.

What a stupid questions to ask. Anyone who thinks our little town is safe from crime needs to wake up. Just because at one time it was the best place to live doesn't mean bad things can't happen here. In a town as large as Naperville with this many teenagers/young adults with access to cars and cash you will have drugs and with that comes the violent crime. It's the nature of the beast. As they say, money is the root of all evil and that is what brings in crime. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the HS kids in this town know those involved. This is the real world folks wake up.

Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to this.

I was born and raised in Naperville. Lived in the area all but 5 years of my life. Naperville is a nice town, however, in recent years it has become more than a "town"; it is a big city with big problems. Anytime there is growth there is going to be more violence. It just stands to reason. Do I feel safe? That's a double sworded question. There is no 'safe' place. I feel reasonably safe. Safe enough that I can go out and take a walk, safe enough walk the street in downtown Naperville, but certainly not safe enough to let my children walk to their elementary school alone. Not safe enough to let my children outside without supervision. No one should feel that safe no matter where they live. Things have changed everywhere, not just Naperville. I'd love it to be like it was growing up in the 60's. Played outside until dark, even after dark. Trick 'r treated from one end of Naperville to the other, no parents. Even left the front door open all night just for the cool air. Yes, life has changed. Naperville has grown and with that growth comes crime. That's just the way it is.

Naperville is a perfect example of "If you build it they will come" and indeed they came!!

People need to realize that these sort of crimes happen because of little things that add up to it. And although Naperville has less crime rate than Aurora, thats still not a reason to compare the two. Naperville is by no means "perfect".

I have not written in quite some time, but after reading Sarah's comments above I had to write something. I can't believe that Sarah is suggesting that this is somehow the police's fault and that if they drove in this area more this would not have happened...do you honestly think that they could have prevented this situation from taking place? This is an isolated incident and it doesn't matter what the police did, they would not stop this from happening. When you say..."It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". How does this situation prove your theory? You go on to say..."It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". You start out by giving your opinion, which is fine, with the words "seems like" and then somehow you turn it into a fact by making the statement "This is terrible police work"...do you know for a fact that this is the police department's patrol policy? Only patrol the "perceived" fun parts of town and stay away from the other parts of town! It seems like you are glorifying this incident to push your agenda of less police in downtown Naperville...if that is the case than shame on you. I agree there a lot police in downtown Naperville, but I would not have used this incident as an example to push for less police in downtown Naperville. You just loose credibility when you mix the two situations and at the very least...it is a stretch on your part.

What naperville cops do work. all i ever see them do is blow street lights

Sarah,

Please don't cheapen this family's grief by using this tragedy as an excuse to score political points. Your ridiculous rants about police presence in both the courtroom and in the downtown area illustrate your ignorance of and prejudices.

Act like an adult, please, and don't try to take this thread where it doesn't need to go.

Moderator Jim to Still water resident: The Naperville Sun was the first media outlet in all of Chicago land to have this story - on our website- just hours after it happened. Next time you want to be informed, go to napersun.com. We're all Naperville all the time.

"Steve R: when you deal with cocaine you run a risk. when you sell to black people your risk is much higher. He had been doing this a while, things like this WILL happen eventually."

Yeah. White cokeheads are sooo much safer to deal to. Surprise, surprise: more bigotry and ignorance displayed by the residents of Naperville.

Steve, I have a news flash for you: a druggie is a druggie, it hardly matters what the color of their skin is.

Steve, please explain why the risk of selling cocaine to black people is a "higher risk" (your words not mine) than any other race. Anyone using cocaine is breaking the law and will stop at nothing to get their fix. Just ask teenagers. Did you know that teens have "sex parties" in exchange for drugs or cash to buy the drugs. Just because our town makes those ridiculous "best" list does not mean we are immune to the real world.

Clearly people in Naperville do not know what is really going on in this world or possibly in their own basement. You need to read more than your little town paper.

Why would you even have to mention Aurora????????? This crime has nothing to do with that suburb, are you that closed minded that you actually think that no crimes can be commited in Naperville before Aurora. You really need to get out of that town and see what goes on in the world outside Naperville.....

Disgusted:

Look at the demographics . . .

Steve R. - sounds like you are speaking from experience.

I'll guess we'll be reading about you in the papers eventually.

Sara,

I can't make assumptions about who you are or what your life is like--but you're clearly out of touch with reality.

If the secret service were to fall asleep on an attack on the president or the FBI not investigate threats of a terrorist attack--but to blame the Naperville police for being incapable of preventing this attack is sophomoric and moronic.

There were numerous mob hits by the Chicago Outfit performed in Naperville in the mid 80s as well. These acts of crime are well-planned out and calculative. If this were a drive-by in a gang infested neighborhood you might have a point.

But this was performed in the early morning in a safe residential neighborhood to a person who apparently was mixed in the drug trade of some sort.

Bringing up overtime pay and other political arguments tells me you have little understanding for the situation. This happens in all parts of the country just about everyday.

It is the first murder with a gun in Naperville since 2005. Considering a town of 140,000, that's below the norm for other cities our size in America.

Look at the Latin King problem of nearby Aurora, they had more than 41 gun-related murders since last may.

The only real way to avoid these tragic events from a legal or systemic standpoint is to seriously and aggresively enforce gun control.

Blaming police and bringing up tax dollars show you're merely a sheltered adult who has no real tact in every day life--moron.

Liebert...I always like what you write, it is informative and fair...but you just contradicted yourself in your last entry..."You need to wake up. How dare a low life like you call her an idiot for daring to express an opinion on this blog site. I will not lower myself and call you anything. I am sure the bloggers will judge you for who you are! By Liebert on April 1, 2008 9:23 PM" I believe by calling him a "low life" you did lower yourself and call him something. I don't know...maybe I don't understand what your definition of "lowering yourself" is.

My house backs to 87th St. After a few hours of police activity, we decided this could not be the average traffic accident and went out into our backyard and asked the police what was going on? The police answer was that the situation was an ongoing investigation and that they could not discuss the situation. The State Police issue a bulletin about two men in the area on foot and my police department refuses to inform me what was going on. No, I do not feel safe.

By Kevin on April 2, 2008 8:18 AM
This is an isolated incident and it doesn't matter what the police did, they would not stop this from happening. When you say..."It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". How does this situation prove your theory? You go on to say..."It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM".

____________________________________________________________________

Kevin,
Sorry to bust your bubble, but the Napergatians have been complaining about wasted police overtime for 4 months now. They did not start complaining because of this latest and unfortunate murder.

If drug rings are operating in our town, the police must take responsibility for not busting these drug rings in their infancy. Instead of having 12 cops on Chicago Ave doing nothing, we should have 3 on Chicago Ave. and the other 9 doing undercover drug deals to bust the gang bangers before they get to the stage of being armed and dangerous. A shooting of this nature is a failure of our Police Chief. He has to take responsibility for any murder in town that involves drugs. Drug deals can be prevented. A husband killing a wife can not be prevented.

It was revealed in the Naperville Sun today that,

"Overtime pay was already reduced by 5 percent for staff employees for the coming fiscal year. More than $3 million has been budgeted for police overtime for 2008-2009."

It sounds like the police dept. was experiencing $3,150,000 of overtime before this reduction to $3,000,000. This overtime money could pay the salaries of 50 cops with spare change left over for some benefits. The police department is a huge part of Real Estate Taxes on our homes and we are not being adequately protected.

The Napergatians warned the police dept. of too much police power downtown. They recommended bars be forced to hire outside security at their expense to break up the rare fights. No one listened!

Before this murder Napergatians were questioning the one million overtime being spent in Dupage County Courtrooms by cops sitting as potted plants in jury boxes instead of protecting our town by patrolling and going to Dupage County when a prosecutor calls them. Such as being on call while patrolling. They can be there in 15 minutes. When has a judge not been able to make a defendant wait 15 or 20 minutes!

Police Chief David Dial is stuck in his Stone Age ways and refuses to change. It is a shame that the cops can conspire in a pre-meditated fashion a plot to arrest the Napergate Man for a 6 year old toll violation he did not even know about. Instead of wasting all that energy on him all they had to do is ask him not to drive when he attempted to get in his H2 right in front of them. Alternatively, they sent police cars after him instead of the intoxicated patrons and drug dealers. Is this good police work? Is this where our police should be expending and exercising so much energy?

Is good police work to arrest DF because he forcefully told a cop there were no signs posted in a timely manner so please don't tow innocent citizens' cars? A citizen or a council member should have a right to tell a cop he is wrong when he is committing an error without any REPERCUSSIONS!

I think this murder should teach the police dept. that it is time to focus their energy on street crime and not politicians like the Napergate Man and Councilman Dick Furstenau who may be plotting to uproot the Establishment in the next election. It is their right to plot for the next election. But the NPD has no right to interfere in politics in this town.

Since they would never arrest Mayor George Pradel, Chief David Dial or Councilmember Grant Wehrli for the same violations committed by the Napergate Man and Council Member Dick Furstenau, they have committed the ULTIMATE SIN in this town! The SIN of interfering in our POLITICAL SYSTEM!!!

If you look at crime statistics and demographics, I think Steve's comments are pretty accurate.

Liebert...no bubble busted here buddy. I never implied that the Napergatians just started now with discussing the wasted police in downtown Naperville like you imply in your last entry. "The Napergatians have been complaining about wasted police overtime for 4 months now. They did not start complaining because of this latest and unfortunate murder. By Liebert on April 2, 2008 11:42 AM". I said "I agree there a lot police in downtown Naperville, but I would not have used this incident as an example to push for less police in downtown Naperville. By Kevin on April 2, 2008 8:18 AM". Please show me where I said that the Napergatians just started now and not four months ago discussing the issue of too many police in downtown Naperville. I don't believe I said that.

I read these blogs a lot and I have written many times in the past...I am well aware of the Napergate Man and all of the great things he has done for this city. So you are singing to the choir when you preach his name, but I just don't see the link to a lot of police in downtown Naperville and this latest incident. The police would have to be very lucky and be in the right place at the right time to actually stop this murder from happening. I just think it is a stretch and the two should not be linked together. I am sure there are a lot of people out there right now breaking the law who fly under the radar and never get caught. Selling drugs are a global issue and Naperville is not in the exception to that issue.

You have very good points in your last entry about overtime pay and those are the ones I would use for less police in downtown Naperville, not this murder. I guess we will just agree to disagree on this matter.

Wasn't this associated with low income housing in the area?

Kevin,

The Napergatians have been discussing the NPD spread in town as being inadequate. They should not stop discussing it because of this unfortunate incident.

The correlation is obvious. If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them(Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him), if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided.

We should have 0 tolerance for drugs not through talk but through action of the NPD.

I see nothing wrong with Napergatians using this incident to tell the police their resources are not in the right place. The NPD does not listen. This incident tells them they need to listen to residents.

It is ironic how when the Napergate Man runs legal sting operations to prevent the sales of liquor to minors, the NPD is always there monitoring him...even arresting him. But when armed gangbangers with guns are shooting drug dealers, the Napergate Police are nowhere to be found. This is why our NPD has a reputation of being soft and in the wrong places at all the wrong times!

The NPD thought they committed a huge clandestine operation when they arrested the Napergate Man for a toll violation that his daughter committed 6 years ago while knowing he was clueless about it. They allowed him to get in his Hummer H2 and commit a crime unknowingly instead of preventing this crime. They wanted to get a RISE on a SOFT CRIME!

It is time for them to learn to get their RISES from HARD CRIMES! That is what we pay them for. Not to hassle residents for their political views. I won't repeat myself since I just posted a very long post on the Napergate Open Forum Thread.

But I will say once more....since Chief David Dial and Council Man Grant Wehrli would NEVER have been arrested because their daughter would have ran a toll 6 years ago, the Napergate Man should have never been arrested, handcuffed and jailed overnight for this petty "crime."

In my opinion DISCRIMINATION is being practiced in NAPERVILLE, at the expense of seeking out real criminals who are shooting to kill. DF and the Napergate Man are simply politicians trying to put an end to POLICE OVERTIME and WASTE! They want the NPD to focus on crime and not politicians trying to uproot the current establishment who are failing us! The NPD is not doing its duty by becoming a political organization instead of a police force.

We saw the unfortunate results yesterday. Let us hope this is the last murder we see. Time to get the potted plants in the jury boxes and on Chicago Ave. to do some work and fight gangs and drugs in Naperville. This should be a wake up call to the NPD that the fun is over. Time for them to earn their $100,000 annual salaries and 75% pension when they retire. We are paying them extremely well, we pay them unnecessary overtime, and we have gang bangers in town shooting drug dealers in nice "peaceful" subdivisions.

If the Napergate Man is responsible for every sale to a minor by his employees, Chief David Dial has to be responsible for every murder in town. It is his responsibilty to prevent murders. He failed us! He must take responsibility for his failure!

This is not the South Side of Chicago. We have 150,000 peaceful residents. We only have a handful of gangbangers. We have a 300 person police dept. They should be able to handle 5 gang bangers and get them jailed immediately. It is 60 police personal against one gangbanger. Why can't they lick this problem with the odds heavily in their favor at the infant stage of this problem. Let us not make excuses for the NPD but let us demand they lick the problem and take it to a much higher level! Right NOW!!!

I said enough for NOW!

To Moderator Jim:

Yes, I still feel safe, but I have a question about the SUn's policy related to this story:

Why is the high school the victim attended worthy of inclusion in the headline? The Sun seems to feel that the school attended by victims or perpetrators is relevant to the story but I cannot see how. In this case, the victim's association with Nequa ended about five years ago. ( In fairness, I noticed that the Chicago Tribune also mentioned the school in its report, but that is unusual.) Just curious.

Moderator Jim to Sam: That's a question that comes up often and is a judgment call. In this case, given that it was a murder in Naperville - an unusual occurrence - we thought it relevant to include details that tied the victim to Naperville as a way of adding context to the story, especially given that The Sun is Naperville's hometown newspaper. It's always a subjective thing, whether to include the name of the school, as well as other details. In this case, we thought it was proper. Thanks for asking.

I like that they mention these things. It gives the reader a better ability to understand the background of the resident(s) involved in the story, i.e. is he a long time resident, newcomer, old, young, etc.

I'm not a fan of biased journalism, but I'm also not a fan of name, rank and serial number only journalism either. I like the "human" touch on these. It makes for a more engaging read, over just dry "necessary" facts.

All of you who are "poking fun" with this story make me sick. Reguardless of what this was over this is still a real person who DIED! A real person that had real family just like you or me. I personally knew him, not from drugs but as a friend. And all I have to say is from what I read here this was a man with more compassion than any of you have. I understand that this could not have been prevented by police and frankly that is not even the issue. Violent acts will happen anywhere anytime and without warning so toughen up America this is REALITY. My heart is with all his family and friends at this difficult time. John we will all miss you.

Liebert...are you reading the same blogs that I am writing? Show me where I said that "They should not stop discussing it because of this unfortunate incident. By Liebert on April 2, 2008 2:21 PM". I don't recall saying that they should stop discussing this issue...I just said I don't see the link between the two situations and I still don't. I just disagree with you on your point, do you normally get this upset when someone tastefully disagrees with you?

You are making a lot of assumptions in your last entry..."If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them (Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him) if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided". You are assuming that the police were doing all of those things above at the time of this murder and that they were no where to be found when witnesses and neighbors are quoted in today's Naperville Sun that the police were there quickly..."That neighbor said he heard some people arguing about midnight Tuesday outside his townhouse, but police already arrived by the time he went to investigate. Paramedics and police were sent at 12:30 a.m." (Today's Naperville Sun). We would need to see the time stamp on the 911 call and how long it took them to get to the scene for us to really know how long it took them to get there, but overall it seems like it did not take too long.

Liebert, you seem to be very emotional about this topic and talk about things I never said or commented on. I really do think you have some valid points about the overtime costs, the amount of police officers in downtown Naperville and about how the Napergate Man has been treated, but I don't think you can pin this on the Naperville Police department for allowing this murder to happen. Could it have been prevented? I am not sure, but it is tough to control mad men and anyone who kills another person in cold blood is a mad man in my opinion. I agree with you that we should have 0 tolerance for drugs not through talk but through action of the NPD. However, I would like to see first what is already in place before I make my judgment on this topic. There is too much going on here that none of us are in the loop on.

Liebert and Sarah,

Have either of you considered upping your doses of haldol?

The man killed has been dealing drugs out of his townhome night & day for years and the only thing that stopped him was another drug users bullet.

What if the gun play tokk place inside the townhome and innocent neighbors were killed?

Where was the Naperville police department during all those years?
This incident makes the NPD look like a bunch of Barney Fife amateurs.

It happened and no amount of trashing people or complaining who didn't do what is going to make it 'un'happen so get over all that and figure out how what went down and make it so it doesn't happen again. The area you live in, the color of your skin, or the school you attend(ed) has absolutely nothing to do with all of this. Drugs have no boundries. Drugs are a disease, self inflicted, yes, however; a disease. Just like cancer and AIDS are a disease (however - not always self inflicted). All the complaining and barbing back and forth doesn't solve anything. If you want to make a blog why not open it for suggestions on how to rectify the problem in a productive way. With facts to back up your references. Not just pointing fingers.

This is to concerned resident. If you were really concerned about this and you knew this was going on why weren't you on the phone calling the police and telling them.

Liebert,

I totally agree with you that the Naperville Police and particularly Chief David Dial needs to take responsibility for this murder.

Subdivisions in this town are obviously not patrolled at the expense of the downtown area and other commercial areas. Subdivisions are boring for cops but when criminals never see any cop cars, they begin feeling a comfort zone.

I would like to see this potted plant issue addressed by the Police Chief since so many residents have mentioned it in recent days. As any resident, I am disturbed that 3.15 million has been spent on police over time last year with 3 million to be spent this year. I guess DF managed to cut their overtime budget by 5%. Every little bit helps but there should no overtime allowed in our Police Dept.

Everyone speaks of how great Naperville is because of volunteerism. Well apparently the police officers in town do not volunteer one minute of their time to residents....their volunterism is based on OVERTIME pay. We thought our Mayor was volunteering in his snow plowing efforts for the last decade, only to find out he was charging us $25 bucks an hour.

Yes we are a great town. You residents keep volunteering while we reap in overtime and extra money for our extra curricular duties.

It is no wonder that the Establishment fears the Napergatians and wants to destroy them any way they can. All these fringe benefits at the cost of Taxpayers will end! No one wants a good thing to end.
But good things must end when they are at the expense of taxpayers.

"Policing" is a function of the police department.

Why are you spending so much time in donut shops?

I definitely feel less safe!

I was born & raised on the south side of Chicago. I have lived in Naperville since 1979. I am seeing certain trends here in Naperville that I saw back then, and it is not a good thing.

Even ten years ago, when reading the Sun's "police blotter" section it was normal to see DUIs, etc., but NOT a lot of "hard crime". Now, it is pretty regular to see assaults, burglaries, breaking into cars (especially of late!), battery, etc.

This escalation does NOT bode well for the future. It also has nothing to do with the economy, as the economy is fine (and things were MUCH worse, actually & truly bad, back in the late 70s, and again in the mid 80s, etc).

This trend toward more personal property abuse issues and violent crimes is a trend which the NPD needs to address and stop immediately.

Perhaps lees time lying in wait for the possible driver with two beers in them (or catching folks turning right too quickly on red lights, or parking too long on main street) can be replaced with more undercover work and visible presence to nip the more physical stuff in the bud before it does develop into "big city" crime.

First time I have been on these blogs. Quite amusing I might add....not the death as that is very unfortunate regardless of what he was involved with. I have lived here three years moving here from Chicago. Kind of ended up here as you got more for your money housewise than some other burbs. I think everyone needs to keep in mind 1) this is the first murder by gun since late 2005....and I think that was White Eagle which is technically Aurora - sorry white eagle folks?. That is not too bad considering a town of 140k plus. Pretty sure that would stack up well with most other towns of comparable size. 2) Cops are not superheroes. They don't have ESP. Could they have done a better job about the drug deals...probably. But which us could not do a better job in any of the professions we have? To blame the cops for not preventing a murder at 12:30 in the morning or at any time is ridiculous. Is that what you want....big brother knowing you every move? I have absolutely nothing to hide, but I don't. I'm not a cop fan by any means as I think they could do a lot of things better, but I am realistic enough to know that they were more than likely not going to stop this murder or most murders. 3) and finally...let's face it. Naperville is nice. Is it great? No. Just because it was ranked as one of the best places to live does not mean it is perfect. Things are going to happen. There is going to be murder, rape, domestic violence, speeding, arson, larceny, etc....you get the drift. It may be advertised as a fairy tale town, but please...be reasonable. It is like many other towns out there....just a little bit nicer than most.

Moderator.....Please inform me when you have the blog about lack of common courtesy by residents in this town.....that is the one I want to write volumes on.

To answer your question....yes, I feel safe....but you really are sensationalizing the event by asking it that way.

Interesting comment, the Naperville PD can't tell someone what happened in their back yard. They should have gone door to door in the immediate area if they knew the shooters were possibly on foot. I would like to have known that if it were me. I would have gotten my rifle handy for uninvited visitors.

So Momalooque, do you really think the shooter(s) wouldn't have had a gun if their was a law against it? Would they have really cared? If there was a no-gun law, it would not disarm that shooter. They would still have that gun and the law abiding would not. After all it would be rather stupid/ignorant to think the shooter would give up their gun just because the law requires it! They KILLED! The law did not stop that crime! Anti-gun laws don't have as severe penalties as murder laws.

Perhaps everybody should be required to carry a gun, that will certainly cut down on the armed robberies! Think about it, if you were an armed robber, would you try to rob somebody that is carrying a gun? That would be silly and highly unlikely!

I moved here in Shell Lake subdivision (unincorporated) back in 94'. Stillwater, Woodlake, and Welch Elementary did not exist. They were still farm fields, and 95th and Book Road was a 4 way stop sign intersection. It WAS nice and quiet.

Life in the big city now.

Sorry, but Naperville is simly too close to Aurora

By Kevin on April 2, 2008 3:06 PM

You are making a lot of assumptions in your last entry..."If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them (Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him) if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided". You are assuming that the police were doing all of those things above at the time of this murder and that they were no where to be found when witnesses and neighbors are quoted in today's Naperville Sun that the police were there quickly.

___________________________________________________________________

Kevin,
Liebert and Napergatians like Sarah and Cynthia are not making this assumption at all. You are making it. You really proved you are dense to assume they thought that.

What they have been saying is that police should have been doing undercover work instead of being potted plants in courtrooms and on Chicago Ave in the last few years. If they had been doing undercover sting operations against drug dealers, they could have PREVENTED this. They are not talking about how much time it took them to get there after the fact. No one doubts they got there quickly after the shooting was OVER!

They are complaining that monitoring the Napergate Man running sting operations on his employees and possibly entrapping him on Chicago Ave by making sure he drove while suspended is a ridiculous waste of police manpower and taxpayer money. They want the money devoted to get ZERO DRUG TOLERANCE. They want the money invested in pre-emptive measures against drug dealers before the shooting begins.

They don't want so much police man power to be wasted on DF and the Napergate Man who are obviously trying to dislodge the establishment in the next Naperville election. This is not police work. What they are saying is this is political work. A police dept has no business in being involved in town politics.

I think we all agree that if Mayor Pradel, Chief David Dial, or Council Member Grant Wehril had a toll suspension caused by a child, none of them would have been arrested and jailed by Sergeant Greg Bell.

The bottom line is this has to be admitted by the ESTABLISHMENT and they must apologize to the Napergate Man. If they don't apologize, they should not be surprised when Shawn Collins files another lawsuit before the statute of limitation runs out!

Sergeant Greg Bell practiced discrimination that evening. He would have never arrested another police officer for having a child run a toll. He would have extended that Police Officer professional courtesy. He knows that! We all know that!

The form of discrimination practiced by Sergeant Greg Bell has to be put to an end. It can not be tolerated in this town. It brings costly litigation to this town.

If the Establishment does not apologize to the Napergate Man, I suspect in the next election the Napergatians will take all the open seats in the City Council and Chief David Dial's position will be up for review! He appears to have tolerated the kind of discrimination practiced by Sergeant Greg Bell. He has made no attempt to stop it. He has not disciplined him. He does not care!

To the person that asked if the townhomes were a low income area, The answer is NO, Most people that live there are retired, like my mother. The townhome belonged to the murder victum's parents. I pray that his soul is in a better place and that God comforts his family's pain.

To anoymous "was this associated with low income housing in the area?" Was the White Eagle murders associated with low income housing in the area? Was the murder that took place in Stonebridge, low income housing? Was the crazy doctors wife, low income housing? Was the kids that was killed by the fire, that mom set, low income housing. Murder is murder and it happens in ALL areas?

Stevie said "when you sell to Black people your risk is much higher"
I guess as far as you are concerned he should have only sold coke to white coke heads. They are much more classy right?

Sarah, your is the silliest letter I have seen in a long while. How anyone in Naperville can get to DuPage County Court in 10-15 minutes is unknown. Try it yourself. And once you get there you have to find a darned parking spot. Then walk from there to the courtroom. Have you been there lately, Sarah? On the best days with little traffic, from Naperville to a court room is an easy 45 minutes. I don't think judges want juries sitting around waiting for an officer.

Also the Police can't intuit or forseee which people in which houses are doing drug deals. Have you known some police depts. that have ESP? Please tell us all about it. I'm sure everyone here would like to know.

I feel safe. I don't do drugs or associate with people that deal or use them and I don't drive in downtown Naperville in the wee hours on a suspended license. Pretty simple way to avoid problems if you ask me.

I moved my family from Chicago's west side thinking my childrens would be safe in this here town. Looks like the police ain't taking care of business here either.

What's with all these gang bangers hanging out in front of townhomes with their hooded sweat shirts, music, and stuff.

Is police relying on the associations to patrol the areas?

I'm paying almost $4,000 a year in real estate taxes on a silly townhouse and can't get a cop to even tell the punks to stop loitering and get a move on!

Dear Steve & Stinks:

I apologize, but I simply can't find demographics or scientific studies anywhere that say that white cokeheads are more dangerous than black cokeheads. I also could find no information on the threats that Hispanic or Asian cokeheads may pose at all. Where did you find yours? Could you be so kind as to post a link to this information?

It only took six comments for the bigotry to start in this entry. I'd be interested if the Sun did a serious series on race, bigotry, and racism in Naperville.

But I guess if it's not about folks' precious snowflakes having to go to another high school (won't somebody pleeeease think of the children!) or Napergate Man (oh no!) it's considered a non-issue.

I think it's time to take a serious, honest look at this town and expose the undercurrent of hatred that breeds here. It's terrible. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

Patricia, what is with the personal attack? "Liebert and Napergatians like Sarah and Cynthia are not making this assumption at all. You are making it. You really proved you are dense to assume they thought that. By Patricia on April 2, 2008 5:40 PM." You have no idea who I am...to say that I am dense just shows that you are trying to take the conversation to a different level. Read my entries again...I agree with the Napergate group about the amount of police in downtown Naperville and I do feel that it looks like the Napergate Man has gotten a raw deal. Just because I don't agree that these two incidents are linked gives you the right to call me dense? Why can't I say they are making assumptions? Patricia, I think it is ok to disagree, but you seem to feel that it is not ok...either I am with you or against you, is that how it works? My point is you don't win other people over by attacking people you don't know. If you think it builds your credibility...it doesn't. You are attacking someone who is actually on the same side as you are in the overall argument of establishment vs antiestablishment.

BTW, what makes you think that I am not a Napergatian? I actually am and if you have read the entries I have written in the past you will see that. I guess we are not allowed to disagree among Napergatians? Let's stay on message and keep away from going at each other...Patricia I hope this is not your true character...hopefully you just let your emotions get the best of you in your last entry. I won't take it personally, if you don't.

In reference to:

By Jackie T on April 2, 2008 5:24 PM
Sorry, but Naperville is simly too close to Aurora

THEN WHY DID YOU MOVE TO NAPERVILLE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY .. and.. what does Aurora have to do with a murder in Naperville?
That statement solidifies the your arrogance. Are you above other people? What makes you any better than someone that lives in Aurora? A lot of White Eagle is in Aurora, they just managed to get a Naperville mailing address. There is little to no difference between the far east Aurora and Naperville. Tax based or otherwise. Some probably paid more for their homes than you. Does that make them a better person? I think not. (I say 'the far east side of Aurora because that's the only part of Aurora that is close to Naperville). Get a grip Jackie.. we all put our pants on one leg at a time. People are people no matter where they live.
There's good and bad everywhere. Naperville is not immune.

You all need to grow up...... why go at each other through a blog. Just wait to see the outcome on what happened here and hope no one else gets hurt.

Our neighborhood had a break in about a week ago.
If we just had a few more video camera's or even
just dummy camera's with posted video surveillance
signs,maybe,just maybe a crook or a shooter would
think twice about doing something stupid or something
that can lead to a fatality..

I just happened upon this blog as I was reading today's news. It's funny, many of you have so much to say about the Naperville PD but you must not know much about it or this city. There are more than a handful of gang bangers and drug dealers in this nice town. You read what gets reported in the news. You do not hear about the almost daily activities of the detectives and police officers hear to protect you. Only what makes the paper. For a town this size the department is not very big. They cannot be everywhere at once. And no, they are not all sitting downtown for the "fun" of it. There are officers patrolling 24/7 ... just because you do not see them when they drive by your house, does not mean they were not there. NPD does not have 12 bike cops. And those motorcycle cops are not for show ... they are traffic officers. We have an award winning traffic division in this town. And yes, they give more than DUI's. Do you honestly think Naperville does not have an undercover drug unit? Those men and women put their lives at risk to protect you and you blame them and their Chief for the death of a man involved in drugs. They leave their families each day to protect you and the city you live in. They miss holidays and birthdays, they take a risk every time they go to work. Why is it that people comment that they see an officer sitting or eating? Are they not aloud to eat during a 12 hour shift. Donut shop jokes are a little tired ... do you know of many other places open at 2,3,4,5 AM? People and parents need to get back to the days of personal responsibility. It is always a blame game when something goes wrong. To the residents of the neighborhood impacted by this tragedy. There was no man shot on the street. It was not a random act of violence. Can police discuss an active investigation? No. Did they go door to door in the neighborhood in order to break this case? Yes. Did they solve the murder in less than 48 hours. Yes. I bet you would not complain about overtime when they worked hard to make sure bad people were arrested for doing bad things and kept away from you and your tax dollars. Why always blame the police ... why not blame the people involved in the activities that got them into trouble. People tend to turn their heads when they see something happening, they do not want to get involved. If the people of this town do not get involved and alert the police of "strange activities" how can they protect. As on person mentioned they do not have ESP. They rely on tips from the public as much as they do on patrolling the area. Personal Responsibility!

mamalooque posted "Look at the Latin King problem of nearby Aurora, they had more than 41 gun-related murders since last may."

mama, I don't know where you got that number, but there were 14 or 15 murders last year, and that was the first time in double digits in 10 plus years....

I lived in the near east high for ten years and never once did I not feel safe.

People need to realize that Naperville is going to have its good and bad people. Located right next to Aurora where theres an abundance of crime and drug trafficking. Of course it is going to cross over into Naperville especially when theres so much money in Naperville. You should feel safe in Naperville no matter what. No drug dealers are going to shoot at teenagers, children or anyone who they do not know off of first hand. This is dupage county people, not cook county. Think about it, if you are a drug dealer you are trying to fly under the radar from cops or anyone, so why would one go around trying to stick out like a sore thumb? Can residents of Naperville please think rationally?

I will file an FOI request to show you that numerous complaints were called in regarding the activities on Sheehan with no results, "just happened upon this blog".

One homicide in almost four years???? I would say Naperville's finest is doing a pretty good job in curbing the drug dealing and violence considering we bump right up to Aurora....And to those who question the police presence on Chicago Avenue, I say it's great!!!! They certainly keep the gang bangers and rest of the riff raff away to make it a very safe place to hang out at....If you don't like it, or think it is too much, hang out and walk the streets in downtown Aurora and let me know how that goes....The bottom line is this, Naperville is and will always be a safe place to live and that is due in large part to the Naperville Police Department...Keep up the good work guys!!!!

Let me begin by saying that I agree one-hundred-percent with "Confused". You already said many of the things that were brewing in my mind as I read all of the comments printed above.

Sir Robert Peel, who is regarded as the founder of modern policing, created nine principles which he felt described the role of the police. Though these principles were conceived in the 1800's, they are applicable to modern day policing and are the basis for many modern police operations. Based on all the police bashing going on here, I would like to point out two of his principles:

1. "Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence".

There are only so many police on the street at any given time. They have to handle accidents on the roadways, disputes between neighbors, and disagreements between customers and merchants. They have to investigate thefts, assist persons who break down on the roadway, settle arguments between married couples, perhaps interview dozens of people involved in a bar fight, and take reports of vandalism (just to name a few things). In addition to major crimes, there are many small tasks which, in addition to being very time-consuming, go unnoticed because, as stated above by "Confused", you only read what gets reported in the news, and these small tasks don't make for interesting reading. While it is the job of the police to tend to these things, they can't be everywhere at once and it is the duty of EVERY CITIZEN to protect the community welfare. I'm not calling for anyone to turn into a vigilante, but the police can't do it alone. Don't turn your heads. You have an obligation to get involved even if it means simply picking up the phone and calling 911. The question posed by the Editors was "Do you feel safe?". You are, to a certain extent, responsible for your own safety. If you don't feel safe, what are you doing to change that?

2. "The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it".

Just because you don't see the police doesn't mean they're not there or they're not working on the matter you reported. There are criminals living in Naperville. I assure you, they're here. There are also criminals from other towns driving to Naperville to commit crimes. Yet the quality of life in Naperville is pretty good. The police do more than you realize to prevent crime. Aurora has a large number a gang members living and operating in their town, they have a large gang unit in their police department to fight these gangs. The only thing seperating Naperville and Aurora is Route 59. I don't remember the last time I read about a gang-related incident in Naperville. Maybe the police in Naperville ARE doing something to prevent crime.

By the way, if it takes 12 guys to stand outside the bars to prevent drunken brawls at 2 AM, then put 12 guys out there. It is much easier to prevent things from getting out of hand than to try to restore order once a fight breaks out. In addition, for those of you who are worried about overtime, it will cost less for those 12 guys to stand around for 15 minutes and make sure everyone leaves in an orderly fasion than to have to break up a fight, make several arrests and then have 3 or 4 of them spend the next hour or two booking the brawlers (on overtime). So, again, back to the original question "Do you feel safe?". Would you feel safer seeing the police constantly chasing criminals, fighting with criminals, pointing their guns at crminals, etc. or would you sleep better in the absence of such disorder and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it?

Disgusted:

I can't do all of your research for you. But, you should read the DOJ and DEA statistics on crime.

Here's some other reading material on race and crime:

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_9.html

Also some additional numbers:

"Most murder victims — 93 percent of blacks and 85 percent of whites — were killed by someone of their own race."

This means that 15% of all whites were killed by people of another race and that only 7% of blacks were killed by people of another race.

Once you throw drugs and guns and the higher rate of Hispanic drug dealing/use into the mix, the numbers get grim.

I find it very interesting that even when statistics and numbers are used to back up a position, people still scream racism. The truth of the numbers hurts I guess . . .

Some incredibly stupid things have been said in response to the question. Foremost is the suggestion that the redeployment of police officers would have prevented this crime. That's just plain dumb. In a city with a land area of more than 35 square miles, could anyone seriously believe that it feasible to have officers constantly on patrol on every street, in every neighborhood?

The reported facts appear to suggest that this murder was the result of an escalating argument, quite possibly drug-related, that started in a private home. To suggest that any police agency anywhere could anticipate or prevent this sort of crime is beyond ludicrous.

To appreciate the effectiveness of the NPD, you need to look beyond the public antics of Mr. Furstenau and examine the statistics. Naperville is, overall, an incredibly safe place to live.

On the other hand, each law-abiding citizen bears some responsibility for his or her own safety. It's ridiculous--and dangerous--to assume that the police can ensure every person's safety at every moment and in every place.

Kevin,

Before I go on vacation, I want to offer you my sincere apologies. I was bloggin on 3 different sites yesterday as I had the day off. I got you mixed up with Ken while I was cross bloggin. He is the one definitely dense! Not you! He has been harassing Napergatians for months and fabricating information on the Napergate Thread and the Obama Thread.

I have seen your writings many times and I consider them insightful and interesting. I did not know you were a Napergatian. I thought you were neutral. I even left you off a list I compiled of Napergatians that were bloggin the last 24 hours after it was alleged by the likes of Ken and/or Anonymous we numbered only a handful. Interesting we are only a handful, but we swept the 1999 elections and got all 4 of our council candidates endorsed despite being in a town of nearly 140,000 residents. Interesting how much power a "handful" of us have. I guess the Napergate Man must have bought all the votes that year!

Here is the list I posted last night and I will add your name to it since I unintentionally excluded you. Again, I apologize for the comments that were meant for Ken and not you Kevin. In the haste, I must have not read beyond the first 2 letters. Sorry!

I will be back bloggin in 2 weeks when I return from my vacation!

====================================================================

PS. In the last 24 hours I recognized these names of Napergatians that were bloggin!

1.Tom
2.Ellen
3.Paul
4.Sarah
5.Kimberly
6.Liebert
7.Virginia
8.Cynthia
9.Susan
10.Patricia(myself)
11.KEVIN(added to the list today after he revealed he was a Napergatian...welcome aboard!)

When the Moderator has a live Napergate Thread, you can see 30-50 Napergatians bloggin per day.

Other names that come to mind because of numerous blogs over long periods of time are:

Diana, Mickie, Randy, Melissa, Maryann, Marilyn, Cindy, Caroline, Ameena, McFarland, Marshall, Elizabeth, Marybeth, Nikki, Rachael, Deanna, Beilen, Lucas, Bob, Rick, June, Jenny, Huntington Estates Lady, Farmstead Man, Resident of the Meadows, Eric, Blake, Ryan, Robert, Martha, Terri, Dor, Adam, Walter, Ben, Andrew, Vicky, Herbert, Scott, Roger, Naperville Lawyer,, Betsy, Vanessa, Victoria, Christine, Christopher, Mike, Sarah, Ronald, Henry, Ellen, Rebecca, Bethany, Loretta, Margaret, Connie, Charles, Confused in Naperville, Tyrone, Howard, Gary, Rita, Tawfiq, Norma, Lillian, Rudolph, Brad, Andrea, Marty, Sharon, Kathleen, Todd,