Murder on 87th St. - do you feel safe?

Hopefully it's not random violence, which is much scarier.

It seems to me it's probably more gang related. Although very unfortunate to have that in this city, I'm hoping that these people were somehow known to each other.

My heart goes out to the family.

I think this is a strong indication that Naperville Cops need to spread out to all areas of town and not focus on downtown that is relatively safe especially because of the numerous doorman and bouncers in so many bars.

Plus you have valet personnal everywhere keeping an eye on the downtown area. With more soon to be coming since the City Council authorized Jilly's to have valet parking in addition to so many other establishments in the downtown area.

It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area.

I hope Police Chief David Dial considers this a wake up call.

I am lucky if I see a police car once a year drive in my subdivision. We pay more taxes than those downtown business and even subsidize them yet get no police protection unless we call.

It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. I hope Chief Dial addresses the ridiculous concentration in downtown area of the police spread.

No intersection should have 12 cops especially when it is only a mile away from the Aurora Police headquarters that can provide immediate and quick help.

And as mentioned recently by Napergatians, why are all these cops sitting as potted plants in the courtrooms instead of patrolling the streets while being paid overtime. If a prosecutor calls them while they are on duty, I am sure they can be in the Wheaton Courthouse in 10-15 minuts as they tend to speed anyway even during non-emergency driving!

I hope the Naperville Sun writes an editiorial supporting the Napergatians viewpoint on police manpower waste in the downtown area while other areas of town are completely neglected resulting in this horrific murder which we just witnessed!

which is as sleepy as it is safe?

This is the real world, things happen even in Naperville. I recall a few years back a man got shot in the leg, less than a mile from that location in the Woodlake Neighborhood.

Naperville is not immune.

Of course, we are rather known for killing our own children or attempts too.

To Sarah,

Wake-up call? An assigned hit to a 23-year-old living in a residential area is nearly impossible to avoid via police. You're an idiot. Do you have any idea how many domestics go unreported and unconvicted?

Police are there to serve and protect; they're not machines that can foreshadow events like this happening. It's not like Naperville is a haven for gang activity or organized crime.

This is an anamoly.

And why the reference to Napergate? You have no idea the magnititude of violence that occurs in Chicago daily. This is merely an unfortunate event that happens to people in that line of business--drug dealing.

Do I feel Safe ???? WHAT A STUPID QUESTION !!! More sensationalism by the Naperville Sun !!!

when you deal with cocaine you run a risk. when you sell to black people your risk is much higher. He had been doing this a while, things like this WILL happen eventually.

Barry,

I don't feel Sarah was out of line. As you stated this was a drug deal involving at least 3 people. The NPD has a responsibility of busting these drug dealers before they reach the point of murder.

The NPD failed in uncovering this drug dealing on time. Armed bandits were running around on our streets. Instead they are conspiring to arrest the Napergate Man for a 6 year toll violation committed by his daughter. They should be conspiring to knock out the drug dealers if they were TRUE POLICE instead of PUPPETS for the ESTABLISHMENT trying to keep them in power at the expense of DF!

What Sarah is saying is if the police spent less time sitting as potted plants in those jury boxes or checking out the beautiful girls on Chicago Ave, this may have never happened. It may have been prevented!

We don't need all those cops on Chicago Ave. doing nothing. In the winter they get the job done with 2 cops. On New Year's Eve, I was downtown Naperville and they got the job done with 3 cops. I personally observed it. There were more people downtown on New Year's Eve than on any summer weekend. They were also much more intoxicated. And the bars were open one hour later! All handled with 3 cops on Chicago Ave. instead of the dozen in the summer. The Chief of Police needs to explain this waste of overtime money in the summer. The Napergatians are the ones who are trying to hold him accoutable since no one else is, so that is why Sarah mentioned Napergate. The purpose of Napergate and Napergatians is to uncover cover-ups and waste of money! What is so hard to understand?

The Napergatains are a brave group who is trying to expose what no one else is willng to expose. That is why they once got 4 out of 4 candidates elected to the City Council. I believe the year was 1999! It was also the year they finally got DF on the city council!

So when the NPD puts 12 cops out in the summer on bicycles and brand new spanking decked out motorcycles it is for show and not for substance. It seems like the cops are more interested in impressing the ladies than enforcing the law and truly protecting the citizens.

It is time to get the cops where they are needed. It is time these cops play undercover roles and bust these drug rings instead of being potted plants in jury rooms collecting OVERTIME PAY at taxpayer expense!

Sarah has a great point and I think she made a lot of sense.

You need to wake up. How dare a low life like you call her an idiot for daring to express an opinion on this blog site. I will not lower myself and call you anything. I am sure the bloggers will judge you for who you are!

Amazing. If you live here in Stillwater. Nobody communicated to the residents abnout what was going on. The Fox News chopper woke all the kids up and the parents too. After some searching, there was a flash on the news. nothing by the Stillwater Homeowners Association - they prefer to send silly ads than address a crime situation. Then, try to exit to route 59 and the Cops just laugh when you ask "is it safe"? Someone murdered on the street I take walks on, my kids ride bikes, and swim seconds from the scene. Could someone advise the residents next time?

Amazing. try living in Stillwater. The homeowners association is mor than happy to send ads to your email, but address a situation like this? Never, that might mar our image. The fox news chopper woke up all the kids (and then the parents), but nobody tells us what is going on. 87th is closed - if you asked the police wandering the scene in the morning if things are safe, they laughed! well, keep laughing while my $12K taxes keep you employed - we were all scared...haha. Hope your families don't get a similar response.

What a stupid questions to ask. Anyone who thinks our little town is safe from crime needs to wake up. Just because at one time it was the best place to live doesn't mean bad things can't happen here. In a town as large as Naperville with this many teenagers/young adults with access to cars and cash you will have drugs and with that comes the violent crime. It's the nature of the beast. As they say, money is the root of all evil and that is what brings in crime. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the HS kids in this town know those involved. This is the real world folks wake up.

Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to this.

I was born and raised in Naperville. Lived in the area all but 5 years of my life. Naperville is a nice town, however, in recent years it has become more than a "town"; it is a big city with big problems. Anytime there is growth there is going to be more violence. It just stands to reason. Do I feel safe? That's a double sworded question. There is no 'safe' place. I feel reasonably safe. Safe enough that I can go out and take a walk, safe enough walk the street in downtown Naperville, but certainly not safe enough to let my children walk to their elementary school alone. Not safe enough to let my children outside without supervision. No one should feel that safe no matter where they live. Things have changed everywhere, not just Naperville. I'd love it to be like it was growing up in the 60's. Played outside until dark, even after dark. Trick 'r treated from one end of Naperville to the other, no parents. Even left the front door open all night just for the cool air. Yes, life has changed. Naperville has grown and with that growth comes crime. That's just the way it is.

Naperville is a perfect example of "If you build it they will come" and indeed they came!!

People need to realize that these sort of crimes happen because of little things that add up to it. And although Naperville has less crime rate than Aurora, thats still not a reason to compare the two. Naperville is by no means "perfect".

I have not written in quite some time, but after reading Sarah's comments above I had to write something. I can't believe that Sarah is suggesting that this is somehow the police's fault and that if they drove in this area more this would not have happened...do you honestly think that they could have prevented this situation from taking place? This is an isolated incident and it doesn't matter what the police did, they would not stop this from happening. When you say..."It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". How does this situation prove your theory? You go on to say..."It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". You start out by giving your opinion, which is fine, with the words "seems like" and then somehow you turn it into a fact by making the statement "This is terrible police work"...do you know for a fact that this is the police department's patrol policy? Only patrol the "perceived" fun parts of town and stay away from the other parts of town! It seems like you are glorifying this incident to push your agenda of less police in downtown Naperville...if that is the case than shame on you. I agree there a lot police in downtown Naperville, but I would not have used this incident as an example to push for less police in downtown Naperville. You just loose credibility when you mix the two situations and at the very least...it is a stretch on your part.

What naperville cops do work. all i ever see them do is blow street lights

Sarah,

Please don't cheapen this family's grief by using this tragedy as an excuse to score political points. Your ridiculous rants about police presence in both the courtroom and in the downtown area illustrate your ignorance of and prejudices.

Act like an adult, please, and don't try to take this thread where it doesn't need to go.

Moderator Jim to Still water resident: The Naperville Sun was the first media outlet in all of Chicago land to have this story - on our website- just hours after it happened. Next time you want to be informed, go to napersun.com. We're all Naperville all the time.

"Steve R: when you deal with cocaine you run a risk. when you sell to black people your risk is much higher. He had been doing this a while, things like this WILL happen eventually."

Yeah. White cokeheads are sooo much safer to deal to. Surprise, surprise: more bigotry and ignorance displayed by the residents of Naperville.

Steve, I have a news flash for you: a druggie is a druggie, it hardly matters what the color of their skin is.

Steve, please explain why the risk of selling cocaine to black people is a "higher risk" (your words not mine) than any other race. Anyone using cocaine is breaking the law and will stop at nothing to get their fix. Just ask teenagers. Did you know that teens have "sex parties" in exchange for drugs or cash to buy the drugs. Just because our town makes those ridiculous "best" list does not mean we are immune to the real world.

Clearly people in Naperville do not know what is really going on in this world or possibly in their own basement. You need to read more than your little town paper.

Why would you even have to mention Aurora????????? This crime has nothing to do with that suburb, are you that closed minded that you actually think that no crimes can be commited in Naperville before Aurora. You really need to get out of that town and see what goes on in the world outside Naperville.....

Disgusted:

Look at the demographics . . .

Steve R. - sounds like you are speaking from experience.

I'll guess we'll be reading about you in the papers eventually.

Sara,

I can't make assumptions about who you are or what your life is like--but you're clearly out of touch with reality.

If the secret service were to fall asleep on an attack on the president or the FBI not investigate threats of a terrorist attack--but to blame the Naperville police for being incapable of preventing this attack is sophomoric and moronic.

There were numerous mob hits by the Chicago Outfit performed in Naperville in the mid 80s as well. These acts of crime are well-planned out and calculative. If this were a drive-by in a gang infested neighborhood you might have a point.

But this was performed in the early morning in a safe residential neighborhood to a person who apparently was mixed in the drug trade of some sort.

Bringing up overtime pay and other political arguments tells me you have little understanding for the situation. This happens in all parts of the country just about everyday.

It is the first murder with a gun in Naperville since 2005. Considering a town of 140,000, that's below the norm for other cities our size in America.

Look at the Latin King problem of nearby Aurora, they had more than 41 gun-related murders since last may.

The only real way to avoid these tragic events from a legal or systemic standpoint is to seriously and aggresively enforce gun control.

Blaming police and bringing up tax dollars show you're merely a sheltered adult who has no real tact in every day life--moron.

Liebert...I always like what you write, it is informative and fair...but you just contradicted yourself in your last entry..."You need to wake up. How dare a low life like you call her an idiot for daring to express an opinion on this blog site. I will not lower myself and call you anything. I am sure the bloggers will judge you for who you are! By Liebert on April 1, 2008 9:23 PM" I believe by calling him a "low life" you did lower yourself and call him something. I don't know...maybe I don't understand what your definition of "lowering yourself" is.

My house backs to 87th St. After a few hours of police activity, we decided this could not be the average traffic accident and went out into our backyard and asked the police what was going on? The police answer was that the situation was an ongoing investigation and that they could not discuss the situation. The State Police issue a bulletin about two men in the area on foot and my police department refuses to inform me what was going on. No, I do not feel safe.

By Kevin on April 2, 2008 8:18 AM
This is an isolated incident and it doesn't matter what the police did, they would not stop this from happening. When you say..."It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM". How does this situation prove your theory? You go on to say..."It seems like the police want to be where it is fun to be and not where they are really needed! This is terrible police work. By Sarah on April 1, 2008 6:50 PM".

____________________________________________________________________

Kevin,
Sorry to bust your bubble, but the Napergatians have been complaining about wasted police overtime for 4 months now. They did not start complaining because of this latest and unfortunate murder.

If drug rings are operating in our town, the police must take responsibility for not busting these drug rings in their infancy. Instead of having 12 cops on Chicago Ave doing nothing, we should have 3 on Chicago Ave. and the other 9 doing undercover drug deals to bust the gang bangers before they get to the stage of being armed and dangerous. A shooting of this nature is a failure of our Police Chief. He has to take responsibility for any murder in town that involves drugs. Drug deals can be prevented. A husband killing a wife can not be prevented.

It was revealed in the Naperville Sun today that,

"Overtime pay was already reduced by 5 percent for staff employees for the coming fiscal year. More than $3 million has been budgeted for police overtime for 2008-2009."

It sounds like the police dept. was experiencing $3,150,000 of overtime before this reduction to $3,000,000. This overtime money could pay the salaries of 50 cops with spare change left over for some benefits. The police department is a huge part of Real Estate Taxes on our homes and we are not being adequately protected.

The Napergatians warned the police dept. of too much police power downtown. They recommended bars be forced to hire outside security at their expense to break up the rare fights. No one listened!

Before this murder Napergatians were questioning the one million overtime being spent in Dupage County Courtrooms by cops sitting as potted plants in jury boxes instead of protecting our town by patrolling and going to Dupage County when a prosecutor calls them. Such as being on call while patrolling. They can be there in 15 minutes. When has a judge not been able to make a defendant wait 15 or 20 minutes!

Police Chief David Dial is stuck in his Stone Age ways and refuses to change. It is a shame that the cops can conspire in a pre-meditated fashion a plot to arrest the Napergate Man for a 6 year old toll violation he did not even know about. Instead of wasting all that energy on him all they had to do is ask him not to drive when he attempted to get in his H2 right in front of them. Alternatively, they sent police cars after him instead of the intoxicated patrons and drug dealers. Is this good police work? Is this where our police should be expending and exercising so much energy?

Is good police work to arrest DF because he forcefully told a cop there were no signs posted in a timely manner so please don't tow innocent citizens' cars? A citizen or a council member should have a right to tell a cop he is wrong when he is committing an error without any REPERCUSSIONS!

I think this murder should teach the police dept. that it is time to focus their energy on street crime and not politicians like the Napergate Man and Councilman Dick Furstenau who may be plotting to uproot the Establishment in the next election. It is their right to plot for the next election. But the NPD has no right to interfere in politics in this town.

Since they would never arrest Mayor George Pradel, Chief David Dial or Councilmember Grant Wehrli for the same violations committed by the Napergate Man and Council Member Dick Furstenau, they have committed the ULTIMATE SIN in this town! The SIN of interfering in our POLITICAL SYSTEM!!!

If you look at crime statistics and demographics, I think Steve's comments are pretty accurate.

Liebert...no bubble busted here buddy. I never implied that the Napergatians just started now with discussing the wasted police in downtown Naperville like you imply in your last entry. "The Napergatians have been complaining about wasted police overtime for 4 months now. They did not start complaining because of this latest and unfortunate murder. By Liebert on April 2, 2008 11:42 AM". I said "I agree there a lot police in downtown Naperville, but I would not have used this incident as an example to push for less police in downtown Naperville. By Kevin on April 2, 2008 8:18 AM". Please show me where I said that the Napergatians just started now and not four months ago discussing the issue of too many police in downtown Naperville. I don't believe I said that.

I read these blogs a lot and I have written many times in the past...I am well aware of the Napergate Man and all of the great things he has done for this city. So you are singing to the choir when you preach his name, but I just don't see the link to a lot of police in downtown Naperville and this latest incident. The police would have to be very lucky and be in the right place at the right time to actually stop this murder from happening. I just think it is a stretch and the two should not be linked together. I am sure there are a lot of people out there right now breaking the law who fly under the radar and never get caught. Selling drugs are a global issue and Naperville is not in the exception to that issue.

You have very good points in your last entry about overtime pay and those are the ones I would use for less police in downtown Naperville, not this murder. I guess we will just agree to disagree on this matter.

Wasn't this associated with low income housing in the area?

Kevin,

The Napergatians have been discussing the NPD spread in town as being inadequate. They should not stop discussing it because of this unfortunate incident.

The correlation is obvious. If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them(Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him), if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided.

We should have 0 tolerance for drugs not through talk but through action of the NPD.

I see nothing wrong with Napergatians using this incident to tell the police their resources are not in the right place. The NPD does not listen. This incident tells them they need to listen to residents.

It is ironic how when the Napergate Man runs legal sting operations to prevent the sales of liquor to minors, the NPD is always there monitoring him...even arresting him. But when armed gangbangers with guns are shooting drug dealers, the Napergate Police are nowhere to be found. This is why our NPD has a reputation of being soft and in the wrong places at all the wrong times!

The NPD thought they committed a huge clandestine operation when they arrested the Napergate Man for a toll violation that his daughter committed 6 years ago while knowing he was clueless about it. They allowed him to get in his Hummer H2 and commit a crime unknowingly instead of preventing this crime. They wanted to get a RISE on a SOFT CRIME!

It is time for them to learn to get their RISES from HARD CRIMES! That is what we pay them for. Not to hassle residents for their political views. I won't repeat myself since I just posted a very long post on the Napergate Open Forum Thread.

But I will say once more....since Chief David Dial and Council Man Grant Wehrli would NEVER have been arrested because their daughter would have ran a toll 6 years ago, the Napergate Man should have never been arrested, handcuffed and jailed overnight for this petty "crime."

In my opinion DISCRIMINATION is being practiced in NAPERVILLE, at the expense of seeking out real criminals who are shooting to kill. DF and the Napergate Man are simply politicians trying to put an end to POLICE OVERTIME and WASTE! They want the NPD to focus on crime and not politicians trying to uproot the current establishment who are failing us! The NPD is not doing its duty by becoming a political organization instead of a police force.

We saw the unfortunate results yesterday. Let us hope this is the last murder we see. Time to get the potted plants in the jury boxes and on Chicago Ave. to do some work and fight gangs and drugs in Naperville. This should be a wake up call to the NPD that the fun is over. Time for them to earn their $100,000 annual salaries and 75% pension when they retire. We are paying them extremely well, we pay them unnecessary overtime, and we have gang bangers in town shooting drug dealers in nice "peaceful" subdivisions.

If the Napergate Man is responsible for every sale to a minor by his employees, Chief David Dial has to be responsible for every murder in town. It is his responsibilty to prevent murders. He failed us! He must take responsibility for his failure!

This is not the South Side of Chicago. We have 150,000 peaceful residents. We only have a handful of gangbangers. We have a 300 person police dept. They should be able to handle 5 gang bangers and get them jailed immediately. It is 60 police personal against one gangbanger. Why can't they lick this problem with the odds heavily in their favor at the infant stage of this problem. Let us not make excuses for the NPD but let us demand they lick the problem and take it to a much higher level! Right NOW!!!

I said enough for NOW!

To Moderator Jim:

Yes, I still feel safe, but I have a question about the SUn's policy related to this story:

Why is the high school the victim attended worthy of inclusion in the headline? The Sun seems to feel that the school attended by victims or perpetrators is relevant to the story but I cannot see how. In this case, the victim's association with Nequa ended about five years ago. ( In fairness, I noticed that the Chicago Tribune also mentioned the school in its report, but that is unusual.) Just curious.

Moderator Jim to Sam: That's a question that comes up often and is a judgment call. In this case, given that it was a murder in Naperville - an unusual occurrence - we thought it relevant to include details that tied the victim to Naperville as a way of adding context to the story, especially given that The Sun is Naperville's hometown newspaper. It's always a subjective thing, whether to include the name of the school, as well as other details. In this case, we thought it was proper. Thanks for asking.

I like that they mention these things. It gives the reader a better ability to understand the background of the resident(s) involved in the story, i.e. is he a long time resident, newcomer, old, young, etc.

I'm not a fan of biased journalism, but I'm also not a fan of name, rank and serial number only journalism either. I like the "human" touch on these. It makes for a more engaging read, over just dry "necessary" facts.

All of you who are "poking fun" with this story make me sick. Reguardless of what this was over this is still a real person who DIED! A real person that had real family just like you or me. I personally knew him, not from drugs but as a friend. And all I have to say is from what I read here this was a man with more compassion than any of you have. I understand that this could not have been prevented by police and frankly that is not even the issue. Violent acts will happen anywhere anytime and without warning so toughen up America this is REALITY. My heart is with all his family and friends at this difficult time. John we will all miss you.

Liebert...are you reading the same blogs that I am writing? Show me where I said that "They should not stop discussing it because of this unfortunate incident. By Liebert on April 2, 2008 2:21 PM". I don't recall saying that they should stop discussing this issue...I just said I don't see the link between the two situations and I still don't. I just disagree with you on your point, do you normally get this upset when someone tastefully disagrees with you?

You are making a lot of assumptions in your last entry..."If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them (Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him) if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided". You are assuming that the police were doing all of those things above at the time of this murder and that they were no where to be found when witnesses and neighbors are quoted in today's Naperville Sun that the police were there quickly..."That neighbor said he heard some people arguing about midnight Tuesday outside his townhouse, but police already arrived by the time he went to investigate. Paramedics and police were sent at 12:30 a.m." (Today's Naperville Sun). We would need to see the time stamp on the 911 call and how long it took them to get to the scene for us to really know how long it took them to get there, but overall it seems like it did not take too long.

Liebert, you seem to be very emotional about this topic and talk about things I never said or commented on. I really do think you have some valid points about the overtime costs, the amount of police officers in downtown Naperville and about how the Napergate Man has been treated, but I don't think you can pin this on the Naperville Police department for allowing this murder to happen. Could it have been prevented? I am not sure, but it is tough to control mad men and anyone who kills another person in cold blood is a mad man in my opinion. I agree with you that we should have 0 tolerance for drugs not through talk but through action of the NPD. However, I would like to see first what is already in place before I make my judgment on this topic. There is too much going on here that none of us are in the loop on.

Liebert and Sarah,

Have either of you considered upping your doses of haldol?

The man killed has been dealing drugs out of his townhome night & day for years and the only thing that stopped him was another drug users bullet.

What if the gun play tokk place inside the townhome and innocent neighbors were killed?

Where was the Naperville police department during all those years?
This incident makes the NPD look like a bunch of Barney Fife amateurs.

It happened and no amount of trashing people or complaining who didn't do what is going to make it 'un'happen so get over all that and figure out how what went down and make it so it doesn't happen again. The area you live in, the color of your skin, or the school you attend(ed) has absolutely nothing to do with all of this. Drugs have no boundries. Drugs are a disease, self inflicted, yes, however; a disease. Just like cancer and AIDS are a disease (however - not always self inflicted). All the complaining and barbing back and forth doesn't solve anything. If you want to make a blog why not open it for suggestions on how to rectify the problem in a productive way. With facts to back up your references. Not just pointing fingers.

This is to concerned resident. If you were really concerned about this and you knew this was going on why weren't you on the phone calling the police and telling them.

Liebert,

I totally agree with you that the Naperville Police and particularly Chief David Dial needs to take responsibility for this murder.

Subdivisions in this town are obviously not patrolled at the expense of the downtown area and other commercial areas. Subdivisions are boring for cops but when criminals never see any cop cars, they begin feeling a comfort zone.

I would like to see this potted plant issue addressed by the Police Chief since so many residents have mentioned it in recent days. As any resident, I am disturbed that 3.15 million has been spent on police over time last year with 3 million to be spent this year. I guess DF managed to cut their overtime budget by 5%. Every little bit helps but there should no overtime allowed in our Police Dept.

Everyone speaks of how great Naperville is because of volunteerism. Well apparently the police officers in town do not volunteer one minute of their time to residents....their volunterism is based on OVERTIME pay. We thought our Mayor was volunteering in his snow plowing efforts for the last decade, only to find out he was charging us $25 bucks an hour.

Yes we are a great town. You residents keep volunteering while we reap in overtime and extra money for our extra curricular duties.

It is no wonder that the Establishment fears the Napergatians and wants to destroy them any way they can. All these fringe benefits at the cost of Taxpayers will end! No one wants a good thing to end.
But good things must end when they are at the expense of taxpayers.

"Policing" is a function of the police department.

Why are you spending so much time in donut shops?

I definitely feel less safe!

I was born & raised on the south side of Chicago. I have lived in Naperville since 1979. I am seeing certain trends here in Naperville that I saw back then, and it is not a good thing.

Even ten years ago, when reading the Sun's "police blotter" section it was normal to see DUIs, etc., but NOT a lot of "hard crime". Now, it is pretty regular to see assaults, burglaries, breaking into cars (especially of late!), battery, etc.

This escalation does NOT bode well for the future. It also has nothing to do with the economy, as the economy is fine (and things were MUCH worse, actually & truly bad, back in the late 70s, and again in the mid 80s, etc).

This trend toward more personal property abuse issues and violent crimes is a trend which the NPD needs to address and stop immediately.

Perhaps lees time lying in wait for the possible driver with two beers in them (or catching folks turning right too quickly on red lights, or parking too long on main street) can be replaced with more undercover work and visible presence to nip the more physical stuff in the bud before it does develop into "big city" crime.

First time I have been on these blogs. Quite amusing I might add....not the death as that is very unfortunate regardless of what he was involved with. I have lived here three years moving here from Chicago. Kind of ended up here as you got more for your money housewise than some other burbs. I think everyone needs to keep in mind 1) this is the first murder by gun since late 2005....and I think that was White Eagle which is technically Aurora - sorry white eagle folks?. That is not too bad considering a town of 140k plus. Pretty sure that would stack up well with most other towns of comparable size. 2) Cops are not superheroes. They don't have ESP. Could they have done a better job about the drug deals...probably. But which us could not do a better job in any of the professions we have? To blame the cops for not preventing a murder at 12:30 in the morning or at any time is ridiculous. Is that what you want....big brother knowing you every move? I have absolutely nothing to hide, but I don't. I'm not a cop fan by any means as I think they could do a lot of things better, but I am realistic enough to know that they were more than likely not going to stop this murder or most murders. 3) and finally...let's face it. Naperville is nice. Is it great? No. Just because it was ranked as one of the best places to live does not mean it is perfect. Things are going to happen. There is going to be murder, rape, domestic violence, speeding, arson, larceny, etc....you get the drift. It may be advertised as a fairy tale town, but please...be reasonable. It is like many other towns out there....just a little bit nicer than most.

Moderator.....Please inform me when you have the blog about lack of common courtesy by residents in this town.....that is the one I want to write volumes on.

To answer your question....yes, I feel safe....but you really are sensationalizing the event by asking it that way.

Interesting comment, the Naperville PD can't tell someone what happened in their back yard. They should have gone door to door in the immediate area if they knew the shooters were possibly on foot. I would like to have known that if it were me. I would have gotten my rifle handy for uninvited visitors.

So Momalooque, do you really think the shooter(s) wouldn't have had a gun if their was a law against it? Would they have really cared? If there was a no-gun law, it would not disarm that shooter. They would still have that gun and the law abiding would not. After all it would be rather stupid/ignorant to think the shooter would give up their gun just because the law requires it! They KILLED! The law did not stop that crime! Anti-gun laws don't have as severe penalties as murder laws.

Perhaps everybody should be required to carry a gun, that will certainly cut down on the armed robberies! Think about it, if you were an armed robber, would you try to rob somebody that is carrying a gun? That would be silly and highly unlikely!

I moved here in Shell Lake subdivision (unincorporated) back in 94'. Stillwater, Woodlake, and Welch Elementary did not exist. They were still farm fields, and 95th and Book Road was a 4 way stop sign intersection. It WAS nice and quiet.

Life in the big city now.

Sorry, but Naperville is simly too close to Aurora

By Kevin on April 2, 2008 3:06 PM

You are making a lot of assumptions in your last entry..."If 12 potted planted police officers were not sitting in jury boxes every morning doing nothing, if 9 other police officers were not downtown checking girls out and opening cab doors for them (Sgt. Greg Bell was noted as doing this by one of his female admirers who posted to support him) if the 3.15 million dollars of overtime was used to hire more cops to do undercover drug stings, this murder could have been avoided". You are assuming that the police were doing all of those things above at the time of this murder and that they were no where to be found when witnesses and neighbors are quoted in today's Naperville Sun that the police were there quickly.

___________________________________________________________________

Kevin,
Liebert and Napergatians like Sarah and Cynthia are not making this assumption at all. You are making it. You really proved you are dense to assume they thought that.

What they have been saying is that police should have been doing undercover work instead of being potted plants in courtrooms and on Chicago Ave in the last few years. If they had been doing undercover sting operations against drug dealers, they could have PREVENTED this. They are not talking about how much time it took them to get there after the fact. No one doubts they got there quickly after the shooting was OVER!

They are complaining that monitoring the Napergate Man running sting operations on his employees and possibly entrapping him on Chicago Ave by making sure he drove while suspended is a ridiculous waste of police manpower and taxpayer money. They want the money devoted to get ZERO DRUG TOLERANCE. They want the money invested in pre-emptive measures against drug dealers before the shooting begins.

They don't want so much police man power to be wasted on DF and the Napergate Man who are obviously trying to dislodge the establishment in the next Naperville election. This is not police work. What they are saying is this is political work. A police dept has no business in being involved in town politics.

I think we all agree that if Mayor Pradel, Chief David Dial, or Council Member Grant Wehril had a toll suspension caused by a child, none of them would have been arrested and jailed by Sergeant Greg Bell.

The bottom line is this has to be admitted by the ESTABLISHMENT and they must apologize to the Napergate Man. If they don't apologize, they should not be surprised when Shawn Collins files another lawsuit before the statute of limitation runs out!

Sergeant Greg Bell practiced discrimination that evening. He would have never arrested another police officer for having a child run a toll. He would have extended that Police Officer professional courtesy. He knows that! We all know that!

The form of discrimination practiced by Sergeant Greg Bell has to be put to an end. It can not be tolerated in this town. It brings costly litigation to this town.

If the Establishment does not apologize to the Napergate Man, I suspect in the next election the Napergatians will take all the open seats in the City Council and Chief David Dial's position will be up for review! He appears to have tolerated the kind of discrimination practiced by Sergeant Greg Bell. He has made no attempt to stop it. He has not disciplined him. He does not care!

To the person that asked if the townhomes were a low income area, The answer is NO, Most people that live there are retired, like my mother. The townhome belonged to the murder victum's parents. I pray that his soul is in a better place and that God comforts his family's pain.

To anoymous "was this associated with low income housing in the area?" Was the White Eagle murders associated with low income housing in the area? Was the murder that took place in Stonebridge, low income housing? Was the crazy doctors wife, low income housing? Was the kids that was killed by the fire, that mom set, low income housing. Murder is murder and it happens in ALL areas?

Stevie said "when you sell to Black people your risk is much higher"
I guess as far as you are concerned he should have only sold coke to white coke heads. They are much more classy right?

Sarah, your is the silliest letter I have seen in a long while. How anyone in Naperville can get to DuPage County Court in 10-15 minutes is unknown. Try it yourself. And once you get there you have to find a darned parking spot. Then walk from there to the courtroom. Have you been there lately, Sarah? On the best days with little traffic, from Naperville to a court room is an easy 45 minutes. I don't think judges want juries sitting around waiting for an officer.

Also the Police can't intuit or forseee which people in which houses are doing drug deals. Have you known some police depts. that have ESP? Please tell us all about it. I'm sure everyone here would like to know.

I feel safe. I don't do drugs or associate with people that deal or use them and I don't drive in downtown Naperville in the wee hours on a suspended license. Pretty simple way to avoid problems if you ask me.

I moved my family from Chicago's west side thinking my childrens would be safe in this here town. Looks like the police ain't taking care of business here either.

What's with all these gang bangers hanging out in front of townhomes with their hooded sweat shirts, music, and stuff.

Is police relying on the associations to patrol the areas?

I'm paying almost $4,000 a year in real estate taxes on a silly townhouse and can't get a cop to even tell the punks to stop loitering and get a move on!

Dear Steve & Stinks:

I apologize, but I simply can't find demographics or scientific studies anywhere that say that white cokeheads are more dangerous than black cokeheads. I also could find no information on the threats that Hispanic or Asian cokeheads may pose at all. Where did you find yours? Could you be so kind as to post a link to this information?

It only took six comments for the bigotry to start in this entry. I'd be interested if the Sun did a serious series on race, bigotry, and racism in Naperville.

But I guess if it's not about folks' precious snowflakes having to go to another high school (won't somebody pleeeease think of the children!) or Napergate Man (oh no!) it's considered a non-issue.

I think it's time to take a serious, honest look at this town and expose the undercurrent of hatred that breeds here. It's terrible. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

Patricia, what is with the personal attack? "Liebert and Napergatians like Sarah and Cynthia are not making this assumption at all. You are making it. You really proved you are dense to assume they thought that. By Patricia on April 2, 2008 5:40 PM." You have no idea who I am...to say that I am dense just shows that you are trying to take the conversation to a different level. Read my entries again...I agree with the Napergate group about the amount of police in downtown Naperville and I do feel that it looks like the Napergate Man has gotten a raw deal. Just because I don't agree that these two incidents are linked gives you the right to call me dense? Why can't I say they are making assumptions? Patricia, I think it is ok to disagree, but you seem to feel that it is not ok...either I am with you or against you, is that how it works? My point is you don't win other people over by attacking people you don't know. If you think it builds your credibility...it doesn't. You are attacking someone who is actually on the same side as you are in the overall argument of establishment vs antiestablishment.

BTW, what makes you think that I am not a Napergatian? I actually am and if you have read the entries I have written in the past you will see that. I guess we are not allowed to disagree among Napergatians? Let's stay on message and keep away from going at each other...Patricia I hope this is not your true character...hopefully you just let your emotions get the best of you in your last entry. I won't take it personally, if you don't.

In reference to:

By Jackie T on April 2, 2008 5:24 PM
Sorry, but Naperville is simly too close to Aurora

THEN WHY DID YOU MOVE TO NAPERVILLE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY .. and.. what does Aurora have to do with a murder in Naperville?
That statement solidifies the your arrogance. Are you above other people? What makes you any better than someone that lives in Aurora? A lot of White Eagle is in Aurora, they just managed to get a Naperville mailing address. There is little to no difference between the far east Aurora and Naperville. Tax based or otherwise. Some probably paid more for their homes than you. Does that make them a better person? I think not. (I say 'the far east side of Aurora because that's the only part of Aurora that is close to Naperville). Get a grip Jackie.. we all put our pants on one leg at a time. People are people no matter where they live.
There's good and bad everywhere. Naperville is not immune.

You all need to grow up...... why go at each other through a blog. Just wait to see the outcome on what happened here and hope no one else gets hurt.

Our neighborhood had a break in about a week ago.
If we just had a few more video camera's or even
just dummy camera's with posted video surveillance
signs,maybe,just maybe a crook or a shooter would
think twice about doing something stupid or something
that can lead to a fatality..

I just happened upon this blog as I was reading today's news. It's funny, many of you have so much to say about the Naperville PD but you must not know much about it or this city. There are more than a handful of gang bangers and drug dealers in this nice town. You read what gets reported in the news. You do not hear about the almost daily activities of the detectives and police officers hear to protect you. Only what makes the paper. For a town this size the department is not very big. They cannot be everywhere at once. And no, they are not all sitting downtown for the "fun" of it. There are officers patrolling 24/7 ... just because you do not see them when they drive by your house, does not mean they were not there. NPD does not have 12 bike cops. And those motorcycle cops are not for show ... they are traffic officers. We have an award winning traffic division in this town. And yes, they give more than DUI's. Do you honestly think Naperville does not have an undercover drug unit? Those men and women put their lives at risk to protect you and you blame them and their Chief for the death of a man involved in drugs. They leave their families each day to protect you and the city you live in. They miss holidays and birthdays, they take a risk every time they go to work. Why is it that people comment that they see an officer sitting or eating? Are they not aloud to eat during a 12 hour shift. Donut shop jokes are a little tired ... do you know of many other places open at 2,3,4,5 AM? People and parents need to get back to the days of personal responsibility. It is always a blame game when something goes wrong. To the residents of the neighborhood impacted by this tragedy. There was no man shot on the street. It was not a random act of violence. Can police discuss an active investigation? No. Did they go door to door in the neighborhood in order to break this case? Yes. Did they solve the murder in less than 48 hours. Yes. I bet you would not complain about overtime when they worked hard to make sure bad people were arrested for doing bad things and kept away from you and your tax dollars. Why always blame the police ... why not blame the people involved in the activities that got them into trouble. People tend to turn their heads when they see something happening, they do not want to get involved. If the people of this town do not get involved and alert the police of "strange activities" how can they protect. As on person mentioned they do not have ESP. They rely on tips from the public as much as they do on patrolling the area. Personal Responsibility!

mamalooque posted "Look at the Latin King problem of nearby Aurora, they had more than 41 gun-related murders since last may."

mama, I don't know where you got that number, but there were 14 or 15 murders last year, and that was the first time in double digits in 10 plus years....

I lived in the near east high for ten years and never once did I not feel safe.

People need to realize that Naperville is going to have its good and bad people. Located right next to Aurora where theres an abundance of crime and drug trafficking. Of course it is going to cross over into Naperville especially when theres so much money in Naperville. You should feel safe in Naperville no matter what. No drug dealers are going to shoot at teenagers, children or anyone who they do not know off of first hand. This is dupage county people, not cook county. Think about it, if you are a drug dealer you are trying to fly under the radar from cops or anyone, so why would one go around trying to stick out like a sore thumb? Can residents of Naperville please think rationally?

I will file an FOI request to show you that numerous complaints were called in regarding the activities on Sheehan with no results, "just happened upon this blog".

One homicide in almost four years???? I would say Naperville's finest is doing a pretty good job in curbing the drug dealing and violence considering we bump right up to Aurora....And to those who question the police presence on Chicago Avenue, I say it's great!!!! They certainly keep the gang bangers and rest of the riff raff away to make it a very safe place to hang out at....If you don't like it, or think it is too much, hang out and walk the streets in downtown Aurora and let me know how that goes....The bottom line is this, Naperville is and will always be a safe place to live and that is due in large part to the Naperville Police Department...Keep up the good work guys!!!!

Let me begin by saying that I agree one-hundred-percent with "Confused". You already said many of the things that were brewing in my mind as I read all of the comments printed above.

Sir Robert Peel, who is regarded as the founder of modern policing, created nine principles which he felt described the role of the police. Though these principles were conceived in the 1800's, they are applicable to modern day policing and are the basis for many modern police operations. Based on all the police bashing going on here, I would like to point out two of his principles:

1. "Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence".

There are only so many police on the street at any given time. They have to handle accidents on the roadways, disputes between neighbors, and disagreements between customers and merchants. They have to investigate thefts, assist persons who break down on the roadway, settle arguments between married couples, perhaps interview dozens of people involved in a bar fight, and take reports of vandalism (just to name a few things). In addition to major crimes, there are many small tasks which, in addition to being very time-consuming, go unnoticed because, as stated above by "Confused", you only read what gets reported in the news, and these small tasks don't make for interesting reading. While it is the job of the police to tend to these things, they can't be everywhere at once and it is the duty of EVERY CITIZEN to protect the community welfare. I'm not calling for anyone to turn into a vigilante, but the police can't do it alone. Don't turn your heads. You have an obligation to get involved even if it means simply picking up the phone and calling 911. The question posed by the Editors was "Do you feel safe?". You are, to a certain extent, responsible for your own safety. If you don't feel safe, what are you doing to change that?

2. "The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it".

Just because you don't see the police doesn't mean they're not there or they're not working on the matter you reported. There are criminals living in Naperville. I assure you, they're here. There are also criminals from other towns driving to Naperville to commit crimes. Yet the quality of life in Naperville is pretty good. The police do more than you realize to prevent crime. Aurora has a large number a gang members living and operating in their town, they have a large gang unit in their police department to fight these gangs. The only thing seperating Naperville and Aurora is Route 59. I don't remember the last time I read about a gang-related incident in Naperville. Maybe the police in Naperville ARE doing something to prevent crime.

By the way, if it takes 12 guys to stand outside the bars to prevent drunken brawls at 2 AM, then put 12 guys out there. It is much easier to prevent things from getting out of hand than to try to restore order once a fight breaks out. In addition, for those of you who are worried about overtime, it will cost less for those 12 guys to stand around for 15 minutes and make sure everyone leaves in an orderly fasion than to have to break up a fight, make several arrests and then have 3 or 4 of them spend the next hour or two booking the brawlers (on overtime). So, again, back to the original question "Do you feel safe?". Would you feel safer seeing the police constantly chasing criminals, fighting with criminals, pointing their guns at crminals, etc. or would you sleep better in the absence of such disorder and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it?

Disgusted:

I can't do all of your research for you. But, you should read the DOJ and DEA statistics on crime.

Here's some other reading material on race and crime:

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_9.html

Also some additional numbers:

"Most murder victims — 93 percent of blacks and 85 percent of whites — were killed by someone of their own race."

This means that 15% of all whites were killed by people of another race and that only 7% of blacks were killed by people of another race.

Once you throw drugs and guns and the higher rate of Hispanic drug dealing/use into the mix, the numbers get grim.

I find it very interesting that even when statistics and numbers are used to back up a position, people still scream racism. The truth of the numbers hurts I guess . . .

Some incredibly stupid things have been said in response to the question. Foremost is the suggestion that the redeployment of police officers would have prevented this crime. That's just plain dumb. In a city with a land area of more than 35 square miles, could anyone seriously believe that it feasible to have officers constantly on patrol on every street, in every neighborhood?

The reported facts appear to suggest that this murder was the result of an escalating argument, quite possibly drug-related, that started in a private home. To suggest that any police agency anywhere could anticipate or prevent this sort of crime is beyond ludicrous.

To appreciate the effectiveness of the NPD, you need to look beyond the public antics of Mr. Furstenau and examine the statistics. Naperville is, overall, an incredibly safe place to live.

On the other hand, each law-abiding citizen bears some responsibility for his or her own safety. It's ridiculous--and dangerous--to assume that the police can ensure every person's safety at every moment and in every place.

Kevin,

Before I go on vacation, I want to offer you my sincere apologies. I was bloggin on 3 different sites yesterday as I had the day off. I got you mixed up with Ken while I was cross bloggin. He is the one definitely dense! Not you! He has been harassing Napergatians for months and fabricating information on the Napergate Thread and the Obama Thread.

I have seen your writings many times and I consider them insightful and interesting. I did not know you were a Napergatian. I thought you were neutral. I even left you off a list I compiled of Napergatians that were bloggin the last 24 hours after it was alleged by the likes of Ken and/or Anonymous we numbered only a handful. Interesting we are only a handful, but we swept the 1999 elections and got all 4 of our council candidates endorsed despite being in a town of nearly 140,000 residents. Interesting how much power a "handful" of us have. I guess the Napergate Man must have bought all the votes that year!

Here is the list I posted last night and I will add your name to it since I unintentionally excluded you. Again, I apologize for the comments that were meant for Ken and not you Kevin. In the haste, I must have not read beyond the first 2 letters. Sorry!

I will be back bloggin in 2 weeks when I return from my vacation!

====================================================================

PS. In the last 24 hours I recognized these names of Napergatians that were bloggin!

1.Tom
2.Ellen
3.Paul
4.Sarah
5.Kimberly
6.Liebert
7.Virginia
8.Cynthia
9.Susan
10.Patricia(myself)
11.KEVIN(added to the list today after he revealed he was a Napergatian...welcome aboard!)

When the Moderator has a live Napergate Thread, you can see 30-50 Napergatians bloggin per day.

Other names that come to mind because of numerous blogs over long periods of time are:

Diana, Mickie, Randy, Melissa, Maryann, Marilyn, Cindy, Caroline, Ameena, McFarland, Marshall, Elizabeth, Marybeth, Nikki, Rachael, Deanna, Beilen, Lucas, Bob, Rick, June, Jenny, Huntington Estates Lady, Farmstead Man, Resident of the Meadows, Eric, Blake, Ryan, Robert, Martha, Terri, Dor, Adam, Walter, Ben, Andrew, Vicky, Herbert, Scott, Roger, Naperville Lawyer,, Betsy, Vanessa, Victoria, Christine, Christopher, Mike, Sarah, Ronald, Henry, Ellen, Rebecca, Bethany, Loretta, Margaret, Connie, Charles, Confused in Naperville, Tyrone, Howard, Gary, Rita, Tawfiq, Norma, Lillian, Rudolph, Brad, Andrea, Marty, Sharon, Kathleen, Todd, Debbie, Amy, M.Powrie, Chris, Linda, Lynn, Chuck, Gail, Jay, Becky, Samantha,Laura, Sherry, Nicholas, Gigi, James, Jessica, Carrie, Deeback, Claire, etc. etc. etc.

====================================================================

I got 25 names from memory and the other 80 plus just by looking at the last 2 threads that had 744 rather lengthy posts that I scrolled quickly through. There are probably easily another hundred names I missed or was not sure if they were Napergatians, sympathizers or neutrals. One example is Rod Randall and his supporters who may have their own small movement that appears sympathetic to Napergatians! Another is Naperville Police Officer who seems to have leanings towards Napergatians but is holding his cards close to his vest for obvious reasons.

What is a Napergatian? Like I said, I am new....just learning.

Nice comment Steve R....were you schooled by David Duke? I'm 40 and white....breaking news for you....white people are a majority of the coke buyers/users....read a little. I know....your point was that if you "sell to black people your risk is much higher". I'm sure you can back that up as I am sure there is a statistic that can back that statement up.

I still do feel safe.

Dear Stinks:

Your statistics did not mention anything about what I asked and what you initially said, which was that black crackheads are more violent than white crackheads.

Also, that study that you cited was taken in 1996 and published in 1999, so the information is not what a reasonable person would consider "current".

By Huh???? on April 3, 2008 10:21 AM
What is a Napergatian? Like I said, I am new....just learning.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Huh,

This gentleman known as the Napergate Man founded the Napergate Party in late 1994 to compete with the Establishment Party. Before he founded the Napergate Party, the City Council was run in a monopolistic fashion by Establishment Folks for 164 years since there are no Democrats or Republicans in city politics or elections.

He endorsed and ran candidates in 1995, 1997, 1999, and 2001. I think after that he retired or burned out. He ran a very lenghty series of full page Napergate Ads numbering 44, each serveral times in which he revealed his agenda of anti-corruption, anti-taxpayer waste, anti-police overtime, cronyism, and about a 100 other things.

I think what made him especially remarkable is all the local media ignored him while he developed a massive grass roots movement without their help.

He had 3 or more court victories against City Hall. He had 3 or more council victories against City Hall. He could get 3500 people to sign a petition in 2 weeks or less. He never had troube filling the Chambers at City Hall when he put a call into his supporters.

At one point he was being crowned National Champion for his efforts against minors in Las Vegas, while at almost the same exact time the Estblishment in Naperville was having a Special Kangaroo Trial for him in City Hall, in which they convicted him of 12 charges, of which he was later found innocent of all but one, in many lower courts and higher courts! The Appellant Judges refused to penalize for the one charge he was found guilty of as they felt it was too petty.

He had a lot of succeess in those elections. I think following his victories in courts against City Hall, either in 1997 or 1999 he shocked Napervillians by getting a slate of 4 Napergatians elected to replace 4 Establishment Candidates. The most famous of his endorsed candidates is Council Member Dick Furstenau. DF appears to have much support amongst Napergatians. I suspect if he beats City Hall in court he will gain the support of all the Napergatians. Many are probably sitting on the sideline waiting for the verdict.

The Napergate Man was taken much more seriously by the residents after he started achieving victory after victory against City Hall both in court and in council chambers. The guy was once able to turn ATT Employees against the City and force the City to reverse a 7-0 vote for MCI back to a 7-0 vote for ATT. I think the Napergate Man and his 7600 ATT supporters threatened an electronic war against City Hall that would have had the effect of overloading or crippling the phone systems at City Hall. The City decided to back down rather than face the planned electronic war in the early 90s.

That is a quick summary. It you really want to learn about him, read the Napergate Threads on the Napergate Link. Or just wait until a former blogger named Ameena finishes writing her book about him. It should be a thriller!

Ameena was voted best Blogger on these threads for her great research and writings. She was remarkable! I have little doubt she will write an excellent book!

It's true, Naperville continues to be the most racist city in the Midwest. I am part hispanic and I have been looked at in different way here because people often think I can't afford it.

You should see how I'm looked at when I walk into some of our ritzy restaurants here.

5 arrested in case. Must have used personal checks.

Disgusted,

I can't do all your work for you. Try to make the simple deductions and come up with your own conclusions. Being purposefully obtuse isn't helpful.

As for the date of the research, I sincerely doubt that much has changed since that time.

By Confused on April 2, 2008 10:11 PM
. There are more than a handful of gang bangers and drug dealers in this nice town. For a town this size the department is not very big. They cannot be everywhere at once. And no, they are not all sitting downtown for the "fun" of it. There are officers patrolling 24/7 ... just because you do not see them when they drive by your house, does not mean they were not there. NPD does not have 12 bike cops. And those motorcycle cops are not for show.

####################################################################

Confused,

You do seem very confused! Let me try to help you out.

1. The Napergatians never said there were 12 bike cops. They said there were 12 cops in the summer on bikes, motorcycles, SUVs, police cars, and on foot. They have stated this is excessive for one intersection being Chicago Ave and Washington. I agree!

2. Many people have observed 3 police officers get the job done well including on New Year's Eve when it is busier than summer weekends.

3. The Napergatians were claiming 9 police officers should not be at that ONE intersection. They should be tracking drug dealers before we have murders. Guess what, they were right! Now we have a murder!

4.As you state we have a limited number of cops because we waste 3.15 million on overtime instead of hiring more cops. With a limited number we can not afford to have 9 doing nothing on Chicago Ave when 3 can do the job very well as witnessed by many!

5.The other 9 are there for FUN or to accumulate OVERTIME at TAXPAYER EXPENSE. If some brawl broke out you have doormen and bouncers that will assist the 3 police men we need there. You have valet people. The police can call for back-up. We saw how they had 3 police cars on the scene in 50 seconds to arrest the Napergate Man for his daughter's toll violations. So I am sure if there was a brawl, the police can be there in 25 seconds with there sirens blaring.

6. Those bike cops are useless. The motorcycle cops are a great liability to us taxpayers. Chief Dial wrote about a Naperville motorcycle cop that was very seriously injured while on his motorcycle. Another Naperville cop was involved in a motorcycle accident the day the Napergate Man was arrested according to the booking officer that evening.

7.Motorcycles are extremely dangerous. I question Chief Dial's judgment in using these very dangerous bikes and bringing unnecessary liability to this town and its taxpayers.

8.If 3 cops are not enough on Chicago Ave, we should consider hiring private security at 10 bucks an hour to assist the 3 cops, instead of paying 9 cops 100 dollars each per hour in overtime pay and benefits. This is just ridiculous and one reason we have 3.15 milion in unnecessary police overtime. DF is very right in fighting police overtime and should not be harassed for trying to stop it!

9. The NPD is enriching itself at taxpayer expense. This has to be stopped. My real estate bill exceeded $12,000 this year. Where the h*ll does it all end. My company does not pay me overtime. How can I continue paying the police for all this overtime?

10. Many towns force event holders like the Last Fling to hire private security. Instead we provide them police security at overtime pay, while they charge our kids 4 dollars for a ride. Let them foot their own bill for security with NPD assisting but not providing the security.

I hope this helps unconfuse you just a bit, Confused! Of course if you are policeman you will be biased and not see my viewpoint as your $100,000 plus in salary and overtime is more important than the rights of TAXPAYERS to have costs controlled by the NPD!!!

Patricia, thank you for the apology, I accept it. You were correct with your first assumption that I was neutral, but over time I have leaned more toward the Napergate movement as I believe the true movement is looking out for what is in the best interest for the entire city, not just a small select group of people. However, I also believe it is ok to question and being on the same side doesn't mean we always have to agree with each other...just when we disagree, let's disagree respectfully. I like factual and logical statements and when I see things that I consider to be a stretch...I will say something about it. I also like to develop my opinion after I see all of the facts, not everything is always what is seems and I try to be fair about that if I can. Emotions run high and sometimes they get the best of us. Have a nice vacation, enjoy your time away!

By Anonymous on April 3, 2008 1:58 AM
One homicide in almost four years???? I would say Naperville's finest is doing a pretty good job in curbing the drug dealing and violence ....

You've got to be kidding me. We were at the Welch playground one summer with the kids and I asked my husband what were these two kids doing, he said dealing drugs. When I took a closer look, they were. The more and more I pay attention the more I see suspicious activity in the area. Unfortunately, the 'drug dealers' don't fit the so-called 'typical' profile. They are not the people 'you' would expect.

But my husband made a good point. We may not have many drug dealers, but we sure do have plenty of drug users who live in this town.

Wow those Naperville Police sure don't know what they're doing, as a lot have suggested. I mean they just solved a murder involving 5 players in hmmmmm....just over 2 days.

Great job by the cops, thanks!

Dear Stinks:

So, let's see what we have here: what you're effectively saying is that you were just talking out of your rear and making vaguely racist comments with only your own "drawn conclusions" using 12-year-old data from a single source material to back them up.

Good job! You're quite the intellectual. I'm glad to know we have rational, logical folks like you in Naperville.

Stinks wrote: "I can't do all your work for you. Try to make the simple deductions and come up with your own conclusions. Being purposefully obtuse isn't helpful."

You're confusing simple deductions with leaps of logic. Disgusted was right: your link does not support your argument.

Poor McCLueless cant figure out where his tax money is going. Check the amount you spend on Schools McClueless (assuming you really do live in Naperville and pay taxes)

None of your points are worth responding to, but I thought I would would help you read your tax bill since your not all the smart.

Disgusted,

It's simple. Blacks commit more violent crimes. Hence, black coke users would commit relatively more violent. Blacks being more violent is a current and valid statistitic.

Not a huge leap.

Bottom line to all you PC liberals.

Can anyone argue that blacks and Hispanics are involved in more violent drug/gang related crimes than any other?

Do you guys ever crack open a newspaper and see that when it comes to assaults and whatnot in this area, it's mostly blacks and Hispanics?

Look at the police reports. Other ethnicities are involved in a myriad of other offenses yes, but violent ones much fewer and far between.

Yes, the truth is hard to handle, isn't it?

Anonymous I,
McFarland is a pretty smart guy. He knows his bill is composed of many components. He has complained on the District 204 about his tax bill about 2 months ago.

You showed you could not respond to his factual knowledge by copping out! I agree with McFarland 100%. All waste adds to our Real Estate Tax bills! All waste needs to be stopped! 3.15 million in police overtime on Chicago Ave and Jury Boxes is a WASTE!

__________________________________________________________________

By Anonymous on April 3, 2008 4:52 PM
Wow those Naperville Police sure don't know what they're doing, as a lot have suggested. I mean they just solved a murder involving 5 players in hmmmmm....just over 2 days.

Great job by the cops, thanks!

Annonymous II,
They solved a crime after the fact involving 8 people. That is a lot of people involved and they should have been arrested long before the gun fire started blasting in our neighborhoods. Innocent residents could have been killed by a ricocheting bullet!

An 18 year old kid in my neighborhood told me he knew of John Rosales for 2 years even though he never met him. He was known in drug circles. This kid was arrested twice for using/possessing marijuana by the NPD! They should have squeezed him and many others for the information instead of being potted plants on Chicago Ave where they are not needed as McFarland stated earlier today!

While we sit on our butts for the last couple of days blogging about this, NPD wrapped the package with 5 player dogs in jail. Good thing they weren't blogging. Great job NPD! I no longer care about my car window being shot out by some punk two weeks ago while parked in front of my house. Stop complaining about taxes-you spend (by voting yes, yes, yes) $15 or $20 on your schools (if you live in $204) for every $1 you spend on the police department. (Rosales didn't get his money out of the schools but got justice from NPD) I think the police are a better value.

Patricia wrote:
"I got you mixed up with Ken while I was cross bloggin. He is the one definitely dense! Not you! He has been harassing Napergatians for months and fabricating information on the Napergate Thread and the Obama Thread"

Any proof behind those accusations? Is asking for facts instead of suppositions harassment? Because someone does not agree with the cult, it automatically makes them dense? Anyone who dares to cross the cult is immediately set upon with the usual name calling and belittling tactics. Unlike you, I like to form my opinion after I hear facts, not hearsay.

This thread is a good example of the Napergate cult's tendency to post opinions instead of fact. You all act that it is a fact that if the police force was deployed differently this murder would not happen. That is an opinion, not a fact. As soon as someone pointed out the folly of that assumption, you all ganged up on them. You don't want a discussion, you just want to make your points and have everybody pat you on the back while agreeing with you.

HuH???? asked who the Napergatians were. They are a group of people that used to have political power when one man was unafraid to challenge the status quo. Now they are a group of people who pine for the good old days of heady political success but unable to pull it off again for lack of a new leader. If you cross them, they are good at sniping at you en masse as long as they can do it from the safety of their anonymity that these blogs provide. They are all afraid of doing anything in the real world as they feel the Naperville police will swoop down on their houses in the dead of the night, and no one will ever see them again.

I'm very concerned about the pit bull dogs the "victim" owned.

Anyone know if they were hurt in the incident and if they're available for adoption?

Thanks in advance.

anonymous,april 3 at 158am quoted"If you don't like it, or think it is too much, hang out and walk the streets in downtown Aurora and let me know how that goes..."

once again, a bunch of nonsense from someone who has never been downtown aurora because of the "perception".....

downtown alive, blues festival, and a soon coming rock festival are all held down town...WITHOUT INCIDENT!!!!! every friggin friday night!!!! 1000 plus residential units will be built downtown over the next ten years! restoration of historic buildings are in process....

there are also great bars and restaurants you can feel safe at any night of the week....so,come on down sometime...no gangsters will bother you, I promise:)

This latest murder in our town sickens me and could have been prevented by the Naperville Police...

Listen to these comments by Chief of Police David Dial that appeared in the Naperville Sun:

____________________________________________________________________

Dial conceded police had received complaints "going back a couple of years" concerning neighbors' suspicions that Rosales was selling drugs from his home. He would not discuss the type or types of narcotics found in the townhouse.

Dial said "many people" had come and gone from a party in the townhouse Monday night. Rosales continued the revelry past midnight in the company of Mayes, Moore and Naperville residents Michael W. Barry, 21, and Eric J. Smith, 26, with all five reportedly playing video games or ingesting drugs.

____________________________________________________________________

It just sounds like too much was going on for too long and the Naperville police were in all the wrong places at all the wrong times.

The Napergatians have a strong point when they say the NPD needs to do a better spread and stop focusing on downtown since there are many bouncers, doormen, security and valet people who do provide security downtown and know how to call the police. A few cops downtown is great but an army to the point where they don't know drug parties are taking place in our subdivisions is ridiculous!

Dial conceded that police had received complaints "going back a couple of years" and this happens. Really! Why weren't the Naperville Police conspiring to take this potential drug house down instead of conspiring to take the Napergate Man down over a .40 cent violation by his daughter. It just shows you when you have excess cops in an area where they are not needed they start looking for harmless petty violations that should not take priority over drug dealers, thugs, and alleged first degree murderers.

Those other 9 cops that are not needed in downtown should be driving in subdivisions and running plates of cars at these drug parties. Not the plate of a well known harmless man walking his dog! For Heavens Sake!!

If they would have ran the plates of these alleged 5 First Degree Murderers they would have discovered all had criminal records and had no business being at a DRUG PARTY in our TOWN! Of course there should not be DRUG PARTIES in our TOWN in the first place!

Here is what the Tribune said about the records of the 5 arrested suspects:

____________________________________________________________________

Moore previously had been charged with domestic battery, resisting a peace officer, and driving under the influence, court records showed. Mayes was scheduled to be sentenced this month on a drug possession charge in Kane County; Chandler-Martin previously was charged with theft; Harper served time in prison for armed robbery; and Jackson was on parole for an aggravated battery charge and previously was charged with possession of a stolen automobile, domestic battery, resisting a peace officer and trespassing.

____________________________________________________________________

There should have been surveillance on these idiots and not outstanding citizens like the Napergate Man because his political views are disliked by the establishment. I think this was a preventable crime and our Police Chief failed us no matter how he wants to paint it.

I would like to call for his IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION and ask my fellow Napervillians to join me! For the record I am not a Napergatian but will soon join if I don't see some quick and swift changes in our POLICE DEPARTMENT!

We need a police chief who can act before the FACT and not after the FACT. With 8 people who knew each other including 4 eyewitnesses solving this crime after the FACT was a no brainier and no one should be patting the NPD on the back.

We lost a "Young Man who had gone Astray" because the Naperville Police did not do its duty, arrest him early on and jail him in order to detoxify him!!!

And those 5 thugs that allegedly killed him did not exactly look like choir boys. As far as I am concerned they should have been stopped and questioned some time in the last few years if the police were patrolling the streets instead of the bars! The bars need to pay for their own security so the police can go back and monitor our subdivisions. The bars can easily afford to pay for their own security! Subsidizing must end! Bars outside the downtown area are not subsidized with police protection as downtown bars are.
Why!!!

I am sorry, but this incident reveals that the Napergatians are a step ahead of the rest of us and we need to take them a lot more seriously before we have another MURDER IN TOWN!

THERE IS PLENTY OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITY GOING ON AT NIGHT AT THE BASEBALL DIAMOND BY WELCH SCHOOL. DRUG DEALING, DRINKING, ETC.
GO CHECK OUT ALL THE BROKEN BOTTLES ON THE CONCRETE THAT WILL APPEAR AS SOON AS IT GETS WARM ENOUGH TO HANG OUTSIDE. WATCH CARS
PULL THROUGH THE PARKING LOT AND BUY/SELL WHATEVER. THIS HAS GONE ON FOR ABOUT THE LAST 3 YEARS. HOW SOON BEFORE A BULLET FLIES ACROSS
THE FIELD?

I think the Napergatians should all test next year to be police officers, we need them and their wisdom to run this town. Dont stop their either, put that nutjob Marilyn in for Mayor as she has knowledge far beyond anyone else in the entire planet. Marilyn is my HERO

McFarland wrote: "The other 9 are there for FUN or to accumulate OVERTIME at TAXPAYER EXPENSE."

People keep saying that the NPD officers who patrol downtown are being paid overtime for that duty. Do we know this for a fact?

Stinks wrote: "Blacks being more violent is a current and valid statistitic."

So, if we can conclude from the higher levels of violence among African Americans that black crack users must be more violent than those of other races, it must also be true than black teachers, accountants, and doctors are also more violent.

Yes, sadly there is a lot of drug dealing going on in Naperville and the police are checking out the ladies and opening cab doors for them on Chicago Ave.

That is not what police officers should be doing.

There is a boy running around town providing and selling dozens of teenagers drugs and booze every single day. His initials are D.B. He is African American. The Naperville Cops know exactly who I am talking about and they do nothing about him because he is under 21.

I don't care if he is under 21. He obviously has friends who are over 21 and he and his network should be shattered to end the sale of booze and drugs to other minors.

Chief David Dial should not be tolerating this kind of behavior by anyone. If this D.B. character is not taken off the streets soon we could see another drug deal gone bad resulting in another murder.

I just want to be on record with his initials. So if anything goes wrong, I can say I told you so. If anything happens to my children because of this drug and booze dealer, I will hold the NPD accountable with a major lawsuit. And my lawsuit will be powerful because I am using Ted's Threads to warn the NPD and I know they read them. Everyone does...who is kidding who! A 100,000 views oer week is a 100,000 views per week and this is practically every household in Naperville reading this Blog Site!

Please arrest this punk before I join Blogger Beverly and also call for the resignation of Chief David Dial. This punk is a household name in the NPD. They know exactly who I am talking about!

Instead of having around the clock surveillance on the Napergate Man who is an outstanding citizen, let us move this surveillance on punks like D.B. who are corrupting and compromising our youth! Please NPD, let us see some action! We can open our own cab doors for ourselves! Thanks anyway! We want you to focus on hard core crime!

If this issue wasn't so important and sad, the replies here would be hilarious.

Many people here who are outraged over a supposed rights violation of the Napergate man now want a police state in which the Naperville police can enter private residences at will. Even if the police have had complaints, they still need probable cause and evidence to make traffic stops or enter houses to make drug busts. Most courts will not approve a search warrant on the neighbor's hearsay evidence or suspicions. Most drug dealers seem pretty proficient at detecting police surveillance and figuring ways around it. If it was so easy to bust druggies, there would be no drug problem. However, since most of us do not want to give up our rights and live in a police state, drug houses and parties in which drugs are present are going to happen.

Most of you are recommending that the police leave only three officers downtown. Have you forgotten about the gang problems, the fighting, and a few stabbings that happened along the riverwalk when there were fewer police there? If the amount of officers is reduced and those problems come back, are you going to say nothing as it was you who encouraged the redeployment? No, you will all be crying again about the lack of proper policing. It makes more sense to have a police presence where thousands of people are congregating and problems have already occurred.

By Ken on April 3, 2008 10:21 PM

HuH???? asked who the Napergatians were. They are a group of people that used to have political power when one man was unafraid to challenge the status quo. Now they are a group of people who pine for the good old days of heady political success but unable to pull it off again for lack of a new leader. If you cross them, they are good at sniping at you en masse as long as they can do it from the safety of their anonymity that these blogs provide.

____________________________________________________________________

Ken,
Yes, we did have a great leader who was not afraid to challenge the establishment or status quo. We may be a little disorganized because of a temporary lack of leadership.

But keep in mind it was the Napergatian soldiers who went to the voting booths and made a difference. Each of us had the same power with our one vote as the Napergate Man did. We did not snipe with anonymity. We sniped at the polls with our names and beings....and made a difference. We plan on doing it again whether we have a leader or not by the time the next election swings by.

And just because the Napergate Man does not want a public life or an interview with the Naperville Sun, does not make him retired, uninterested, unconcerned, or dead. He could easily fire an e-mail with ENDORSEMENTS to his 7-10,000 member e-mail list of Napergatians and make a big difference by the time the next election rolls around. I would not count him or us out yet! It is way too early!

Do I feel safe?

Five gang bangers are behind bars, charged with murder and armed robbery.

One drug dealer won't be dealing drugs to our children.

If we are lucky, the two pitbulls are in a shelter.

Thank you Naperville Police, I feel much safer!

Naperville Mom

If we only focus on the result and think that this is the end, then we are in for a rude awakening.

So what they arrested 5 guys for pulling 1 trigger. Its the typical way, charge everyone , appease the public and hopefully the charges will stick. We should follow this story to the end.

Didn't I just read earlier this week that the Aurora gymnastics coach got his conviction reversed. Yeah, not to big of a news story.

The Naperville police aren't fooling me. I want to see convictions of all 5. I guarantee you, you won't see that and it will be underreported.

and to Stinks. I hope you can afford to move into a gated community. Oops, hispanics and blacks are there too. With your opinions, I hope that adds value to your life, which will at some point come to an end 6 feet under like everyone else on this earth.

I think you are all missing the point on whether whites are less violent than other racial groups when it comes to drugs. In this town I would say whites are less threatening because this is a working class town. I would love to know how many accountants, lawyers, doctors, nurses or other professionals who live in this town are using illegal substances. They don't need to kill to get their drugs. The just pay for it as if they were buying a gallon of milk. If you were to go into your inner cities like Chicago, LA or Phili you would have different stats.

So please don't put white drugs users on a pedastool because they commit less crimes than others. What's more pathetic is that they are probably car pooling your kids around to soccer, baseball, etc. Wake up people in Naperville!! An illegal drug user is wrong not matter if they are violent or not.

To Naperville Mom

Did you realize the danger, before this tragedy happened?

If not, how can you feel safer, if you didn't know you were in danger?

Also, "One drug dealer won't be dealing drugs to our children."

Yeah, they will find another drug dealer probably in the same subdivision.

This is the typical, my child overdosed so prosecute the drug dealer type of person.

As stated earlier, we have a drug user problem in Naperville.

Thank you Chief Dial, the members of the NPD, and others who brought this case to a quick resolution.

To: I.M.FEDUP,

How often have you called the police to report the activities you describe? We citizens are the eyes and ears of the police department. Don't just stand there cussing out the police department, while watching illegal activities in your neighborhood. CALL THE POLICE. REPORT IT. We have close to 150,000 residents, plus all the people who come in and out of our community from other cities. Let's watch out for these activities, and keep our police department informed, and continue to work to keep our commnunity safe.

I have called the police when I have witnessed suspicious, or possibly illegal activities in my neighborhood. I've lived here for over 11 years, so it has been more than a few times. For me, the police have always responded promptly, professionally, and most importantly they diffused, or resolved the problems I reported.

I'm fed up too. I'm fed up with all the ridiculous police bashing on these blogs. The critiques by some bloggers get more and more absurd, and contradictory every day. The political vendetta by the Napergatian cult against the police is obvious.

Everyone is so quick to say "we have a drug problem here in Naperville" and so easily puts the blame on the horrific drug dealers that are obviously of a minority. Hello, someone is keeping these drug dealers "in business," and it's more than likely your kid. Children in Naperville are have a million opportunities, yet turn to drug use because of boredom. There is so much money in Naperville that I'm shocked it took this long for the issue of a drug problem was brought to the table. I've lived here for over 20 years, and unfortunately the "standard drug use" has migrated from pot to more dangerous drugs such as meth, heroin, or coke. Cheers to Southwest Naperville Taxpayer for reccommending that people CALL THE POLICE to report suspicious behavior, rather than just observing. I too, have called on several occasions and, like stated above, have been responded to promptly and professionally.

Let's all start to take responsibility for our own actions, as well as the actions of our children, rather than pushing the blame on the NPD.

NPD, keep up the good work. I feel incredibly safe living in my home. Thank you.

By Beverly on April 4, 2008 7:03 AM
This latest murder in our town sickens me and could have been prevented by the Naperville Police...

Listen to these comments by Chief of Police David Dial that appeared in the Naperville Sun:

____________________________________________________________________

Dial conceded police had received complaints "going back a couple of years" concerning neighbors' suspicions that Rosales was selling drugs from his home. He would not discuss the type or types of narcotics found in the townhouse.

Dial said "many people" had come and gone from a party in the townhouse Monday night. Rosales continued the revelry past midnight in the company of Mayes, Moore and Naperville residents Michael W. Barry, 21, and Eric J. Smith, 26, with all five reportedly playing video games or ingesting drugs.

____________________________________________________________________

It just sounds like too much was going on for too long and the Naperville police were in all the wrong places at all the wrong times.

Beverly,

That was an excellent post of 7:03am this morning. I just reposted part of it in order not to clutter this thread. I urge all bloggers to go back and read you entire post. It is insightful, informative and to the point. I hope someone is paying attention...

Blake...

PS. I also concur with your opinion that Chief of Police David Dial needs to resign. His resignation is long overdue. This murder was preventable. Very sad! A family was devasted...

Moderator Jim to Blake: You sound very judgmental. How do you know what really went on inside this case to make those shoot-from-the-lip accusations? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the cops didn't have enough to make a case? Furthermore, how is a murder preventable? Cops can't be everywhere all the time. In my view, the NPD should be commended for grabbing these guys up as fas as they did.

By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on April 4, 2008 1:11 PM

I'm fed up too. I'm fed up with all the ridiculous police bashing on these blogs. The critiques by some bloggers get more and more absurd, and contradictory every day. The political vendetta by the Napergatian cult against the police is obvious.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

SWT,
The Napergatians are not a cult. They are a political party. They are not bashing the police. They are critiquing the police!
The NPD is not perfect! They have admitted that activity at this drug house has been going on for a while. They should have had it under surveillance instead of having so many unneeded cops downtown. How is that bashing! It really sounds like City Supporters are bashing the Napergatians and their leader for daring to express an opinion.

Accusing the Napergate Man of establishing a cult is ridiculous. He played by the rules. He took the City of Naperville to court and beat them 3 times. How is that cultish! You guys can't accept when someone defeats you fair and square with 14 High Court Appeal Judges Ruling for him and only 1 against him in 3 lengthy trials. Many more District Judges ruled for him before he got to the Appellant and Supreme Court levels. Does Naperate Man sound like he founded a Jones Style Cult in Naperville?!?!

Did he not take full page ads in the Naperville Sun and endorse candidates? Last time I checked Hilary, Obama and McCain do the same thing. Is that cultish behavior?

When he did not like City Council Decisions did he ask anyone to shoot the City Council Members? Of course not! He rallied numerous residents and took them to the City Council and pressured them to reverse stupid decisions on ATT, Spring Green, and SW GATE. Is that cultish behavior?

When you City Establishment residents call the Napergate Man and his political party a bunch of cult members, you lose a lot of credibility! Its nice to see people like Kevin and Beverly speak highly of the Napergatian movement which is only trying to watch our tax dollars and demand a better performing police department. Has any Napergatian ever fired one bullet at anyone since 1994? Not once! Their bullets are their truthful words that the Establishment Party has a hard time digesting and accepting.

If the Napergate Man comes out of retirement and reveals this $3.15 million police overtime in Napergate XXXXV or VL whichever it may be, I feel it is the end of Establishment Rule in this town.

He shook the town up with his graphs and charts showing the legal department wasted $800,000 in the mid nineties and he got 4 Establishment Council Members ousted and 4 Napergatians elected. That was not even overtime money. The city is giving the Napergate Man the ammunition he needs to oust every ESTABLISHMENT Council Member out of office with this ridiculous police overtime. Do nothing and see what happens in the next election? The citizens have had ENOUGH! Outrageous TAXES will put an end to Establishment Rule in the next election. Money talks and people are fed up with ever increasing Real Estate Tax Bills because of City Official's waste, in a disastrous economy!

Moderator Jim,

I read the Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun-Times, Daily Herald and Naperville Sun this morning. I also watched WGN and CLTV news on TV.

All news media are reporting there was drug activity going on at this house for a while....maybe years! All these thugs had criminal records!

Your newspaper reported one of them did not. The Chicago Tribune reported the thug the Naperville Sun stated does not have a criminal record is awaiting sentencing. Some of us actually spend more time reading and researching than the Joes and Kens who do nothing but bash Napergatians. I am really surprised you tolerate this non-stop bashing of Napergatians. It is upsetting to me that you allow some of your bloggers to call the Napergatian Movement a CULT! You know that is FALSE! Why allow it!

This MURDER WAS PREVENTABLE! This murder did not take place in a vacuum. Eight people should not have been under the radar screen of the NPD. The police admitted many others had visited this drug house earlier in the same darn evening.

I live in a subdivision in Naperville. I see one police car a year drive through my subdivision. If I go downtown, I see a police car every 2-5 minutes. This is ridiculous policing! It just seems the police enjoy and love the downtown as much as we do.

The difference is we are not paid and have a right to enjoy it in our spare time. While we are paying them regular pay and overtime pay, they need to be where they are needed! If they were driving in subdivisions and saw 20 cars outside of a drug home, I feel they should have ran their plates and monitored them. Put the fear of God in them!

If it is legal to run the Napergate Man's plate while he is walking his dog, it should be more legal to run these thug's plates when they come to the drug houses in our town. Running the plates of those thugs who committed the murder would have revealed they were convicted criminals or criminals awaiting sentencing who have possessed firearms in the past amd may be in possession of FIREARMS!

Are you trying to tell me, Mr. Moderator, it was more important for the cops to be standing on Chicago Ave. in large numbers instead of monitoring this drug house that has been going on possibly for years?

I think it is time for you to consider supporting the rational positions of the Napergatians in an editorial and help put a little pressure on our NPD to perform better. What is wrong with that?

I suspect the NPD put a little pressure on the Napergate Man in his dealing with minors. What was the result? He responded Big Time and began confiscating fake IDS at the rate of 5.5 times all establishments combined. He went on to win a National Championship for his efforts. If other establishments were pressured like the Napergate Man's liquor establishments, there would be 0 flow of booze to minors. But other liquor establishments are not pressured for political reasons! The establishment want their votes.

Just as liquor establishments need to be pressured, the NPD needs to be pressured to take it to a higher level. Just like liquor establishments need to be held responsible for sale to minors, the NPD needs to be held responsible for not preventing a PREVENTABLE MURDER that involved many people and was PLANNED! It was not a SPONTANEOUS MURDER which is not PREVENTABLE! All the ingredients were there for MURDER to take place that FATEFUL EVENING!

When people show up with guns they have intentions to use them? That is why they bring them along. For the Police Chief to say this was not an INTENTIONAL murder is insulting! They were charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER! That means INTENTIONAL! They were not charged with SECOND DEGREE MURDER!

All I can say is our POLICE CHIEF needs to smell the coffee and the NAPERVILLE SUN should step it up and help him smell the coffee! A young life of a lost soul was snapped and snuffed from underneath him. I suspect with some help, John Rosales could have changed his lifestyle! The Naperville Police, his family, his neighbors, friends, and the rest of us Napervillians failed him. It is very sad! We all need to do much better...especially the Naperville Police Department and Chief David Dial!!

PS. I agree with you that the NPD should be commended for grabbing these thugs after the murder. But I would like you to agree with me that something could have been done to prevent this murder in the first place. You know it was a preventable murder and I would like to see you admit it was. Or at least admit it possibly or probably was! Crediblity is obtained by being realistic! I commend the NPD for their efforts AFTER the murder. But I condemn the NPD for the efforts BEFORE the murder. Do you have the courage, Moderator Jim, to criticise the NPD for their lack of full efforts before the murder? Probably not!

I will leave it at that...

Moderator Jim to Blake: A well-articulated point of view, however I would say that the Naperville police are busy in a city this size, an still maintain they can't be everywhere. I agree that this poor guy could probably have been saved from drugs etc. but that's not the job of the police. That's where family, friends and other social agencies come in.

I was at the last Napergatian meeting at the donut shop. I secretly recorded the meeting which is only a minute long, but says alot about the group. I would warn you, the images seen are not for the faint of heart. This is a well organized group as you will see, with a lot of followers, very few leaders.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_0o4Qb_d7Io

Blake,

I used the term "cult" in my previous post to describe the Napergatians, as others bloggers have also correctly stated. Although they may be a political party, their statements posted on these blogs show they are, by definition, a cult.

According to Dictionary.com one of the definitions of a "cult" is
"2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers."

Enough said?

Moderator Jim,

Thanks for the complement on a "well-articulated post" considering I wrote it in less than 48 minutes with numerous interruptions from the kids and dogs....even the WIFE....lol!!

Let us agree to disagree! I think most bloggers will see my viewpoint as correct as opposed to yours. I INSIST it could have been probably prevented.

I found your last sentence a little amazing and alarming in that you wanted everyone to COME IN except the Naperville Police! They need to COME IN too! They are not EXEMPT!!!

I never said the NPD should be everywhere...but I did say they should be at a known DRUG HOUSE in TOWN!

Blake, your long rant against the police and invoking your usual napergate cult conspiracy theories is what qualifies your group as a cult. Here is the definition of cult:

cult Audio Help /kʌlt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhlt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

Your cult venerates the NGM and his ideals with a fanaticism that knows no bounds. You don't want me or other people to point out that you obviously belong to the napergate cult, but have no problem with insulting and belittling anyone who dares to disagree with you. By the way, most cult members don't go around shooting people, contrary to your beliefs.

Getting past your cult affiliation, you still have not said why it is perfectly okay for the police to violate the rights of suspected drug dealers and users when you vehemently protest the legal arrest of your cult leader. You can't have it both ways, even when something as bad as a murder happens as a result of the constitutional limitations placed on the police. As others have posted, I am not willing to give up my rights so that your version of a police state can be enacted. At the end of the day, there is one less drug dealer, and five more headed for jail. If his parents and family could not save him, what makes you think the police could?

Many of you who claim that the police are wrongly deployed claim that you only see one police car a year in your subdivision. Out of idle curiosity, do you see every car that drives through your subdivision 24/7/365? I tend to doubt it. Are there multiple drug houses and burglaries in your neighborhood that necessitate constant police presence? I tend to doubt that too. You want to take an isolated and rare incident and use it to further your vendetta against the Naperville police. If you want people to admit things, you and the rest of the cult members should at least admit your agenda.

You people know so little about the law, police work and about this town.

Do you think the charges filed against these bums are handed down from police officers? They are suggested by them, then they need to be approved and then in court anything can happen. An officer can provide the facts then it is up to the state and the judge to determine who actually gets convicted of what. So, if all 5 do not get convicted of murder will it be Chief Dial's fault? Instead of bashing the Chief, start paying more attention to legislation.

It sounds like many of you will never be satisfied. You do not want police as a constant in the over populated downtown area but you wanted cops sitting at Rosales' house all day every day. And they should also have been running every plate and stopping every car in and out of there. Violating peoples rights would make you happy? There are laws that protect even dirt bags.

Where were the parents of all these young men. Back to personal responsibility. It is not the job of the police to raise and/or monitor the lives of our children. Maybe if this murder was so preventable their parents and friends should have prevented it by being alert to what was going on. They are who have the answers not the NPD.

And Beverly, you sound like you are a bit crazy. Do you really think police Detox people? They can't just arrest people and jail them because they think they need rehab. There are laws! Maybe you need to spend more time in DC working on stronger drug laws. Should the police have stopped the five bad guys when they came into town because they were black and "looked" like trouble makers. I don't think it can happen that way.

John Q wrote, I guess Black Teachers, accoutants, and doctors are more violent. John Q, you should know by now, from the other blogs that no matter what you say, Stinks is and will always be a racist. He takes every opportunity that he can to put African Americans down. He is a white supremacist, as I mentioned before on a different blog. I have never heard anyone in my life as racist as he, except someone like David Duke. I'm sure that he would try to find some stats that says Black professionals are more violent than whites professionals. Bring it on Stinks, I'm sure you can find stats on that. All of these guys were drug dealers,and that was wrong. It doesn't make a difference if they were dealing drugs in Aurora, or Cress Creek. ( I know you guys remember that). Its wrong. The sad part is that a young life was lost. Please lets all keep that in mind. I'm not sure why race has become an issue on this blog. Stinks did you bring up race on the Hanson murders? Or do you only bring up race if the person is Black? Thanks John Q. That was a great point as usual, but you are fighting a losing battle with this guy.

Now I'm amazed at Blake. This is one Napervillian that contrary to Blakes way of thinking did not fail Rosales. So don't lay that rap on me. He failed himself. This is one reason why most people will disagree with your post. When you engage in his risky conduct, there is consequence to your actions. He didn't learn his lesson from his prior beefs. Guess what? The police cannot enter even a DRUG HOUSE without probable cause, search incidental to an arrest or on a warrant that can only be obtained on the basis of probable cause, signed by a judge and executed in time to stop a murder? His death was the result of two weeks prior planning by co-conspirators if you believe what we read in the press that may not have included murder, just robbery. While one shot Roasales according to the press accounts, all five are charged under the felony murder statute in this state. (Which is a great statute for most of us who think criminals belong in jail in that all five go to prison if convicted even though only one pulled the trigger) Five for the price of one-even the Jewels doesn't have a deal like that! Since the shooting occurred during a forcible felony, (home invasion, burglary)even if they did not intend to shoot anyone, the death is upgraded to murder baby. Your post is a lot of nonsense and in my opinion, not well thought out contrary to the moderators comments. Another area of nonsense: planned murders are preventable. Are you high? Police deployment is based on calls for service. If you really did research unlike Ken and Joe as suggested, you would know this. The fact you only see a police car once a year in your subdivision ( I doubt that) says that your subdivison has few calls for police service. You should be happy about that. Now the bad news-if convicted these 5 dogs will do probably ten years in real time. The time served will be concurrent on all charges. Actually, average time served in Illinois for murder is about ten years. They will be able to petition for parole in 36 months. (Factcheck) Lets not get too excited. If convicted, they will be paroled and back in town sooner than you would expect. If only the police could now prevent their release from prison-ever! Finally, enough with the Napergate crap already. We should worry about IPSD $204. Sounds like they may crash and burn this summer and if they do, few of you will be moving because the home buyers will want to buy in 203.

To all,

Given the end result, I rest my case. I'm done here.

To those of you complaining about the "potted plants" on Chicago Ave collecting overtime: the officers assigned to the downtown area in the busy summer months are the same officers that work in the schools the rest of the year. During the summer, when school is not in session, they are reassigned to the downtown area, and they are not on overtime. They can't work an 8 hour day in school because school is out. Instead they work an 8 hour day downtown and they use bicycles so that they can get around easier than if they were driving a car in the congested downtown area. A simple question posed to a friendly oficer could have saved many of you a lot of typing. Oh, wait... that would mean you'd have to actually get up from in front of your computers and interact with one of these officers that you obviously know very little about.

People like Marilyn and the Napervile Heavens Gate Members have truely ruined anything positive the NGM stood for. While I respect him, the sheep that have followed him are clearly confused.

I have been asking Marilyn to take the test to become a cop but she never responds? What better way to make a difference and help the cops Marilyn, then become one yourself? You have the answers to all the problems right? Get in shape, the test is next year and at one hundred bucks an hour (including benefits) I love that one, you could be arresting suspended drivers or giving them a break. It will be up to you to make that call.

The truth is you would be to scared to do that job but your the first to throw your two cents in what the cops should be doing.

Grow up.

Anonymous,
Since a cop was telling you so much here are some questions you forgot to ask him.

1. If Chicago Ave. is not the source of the $3.15 million in overtime, what is the source of this horrendous overtime.

2. Since we only have 3 high schools that have one cop each, where are the other 9 cops on Chicago Ave. coming from during the summer.

3. Why are these high school cops placed in downtown where they are not needed instead of doing under cover work to discover CRACK HOUSES in Naperville.

4. How are the courtroom officers paid for their jury box duties? Have they ever considered volunteering anything to the community since we pay them $100,000 plus each when counting overtime plus $75,000 pension plus when they retire after 25 years at age 46 while the rest of us have to work till 66 years to get a partial social security payment. Till 70 if we want a full payment! Does not seem fair to me!

5. Why do police have to work when they are not needed? Why are they not given time off when they are not needed so when they are needed their time is regular time instead of overtime?

6. Why is it that the NPD can handle Chicago Ave. so well with only 3 cops on the busiest time of year being New Year's Eve but need 12 cops suddenly on summer weekends? Could it be they just don't want the overtime that badly on New Year's Eve? It almost seems these cops have not only nice benefits but options as to when they can accumulate overtime if and when they need it.

7. Did you ask this cop about the need to arrest the Napergate Man for a petty violation he did not even know about?

8.Did you ask this cop why it was necessary to hand cuff and jail the Napergate Man overnight?

9.Did you ask this cop if he would arrest Councilman Bob in the same way for a similar violation? No need to ask him if he would arrest Chief David Dial if his child ran a toll booth! That would be a silly question since we already know the NPD are a bunch of hypocrites who believe in Professional Courtesy for each other. Did you ask him about PF? I guess you forgot!

10.Did you ask this cop if it was fair for Naperville Police Officers to reap in this kind of overtime at the expense of us Taxpayers and our Real Estate Taxe Bills? I guess you forgot again!
What a thorough report you provided us!

Next time try to get us a full report instead of a partial report on what is happening in our fine police department.

And try to get a name instead of hiding like a coward under Anonymous so no one can hold you accountable.

I would like to ask the Moderator and Host to stop this crap of posting under Anonymous. Why is it so hard to ask a person to post a name, even a made up name, and stick by it so he/she can not change his colors and stripes once we destroy his/her credibility!

Anyway, I am a first time poster who got sick of reading all this crap targeted at the Napergatians who are doing nothing more than asking the right questions and trying to keep our taxes down just like the Napergate Man did for 2 decades. My hat goes off to them for at least trying to do some of the things their brilliant leaders did. No person is obviously going to fill the Naperagate Man's shoes and therefore I appreciate any effort by his supporters to follow in his footsteps!

By Naperville Sun editors on April 4, 2008 6:35 PM
Moderator Jim to Blake: A well-articulated point of view.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Moderator Jim,
I agree with you that Blake presented a well-articulated point of view.

But I disagree with you and agree with him, that this crime was preventable and should have been prevented.

No need to rehash! Just read Blake's post of 6:11pm which was not only insightful but enlightening.

He obviously did his homework by reading up on it from 6 different media sources and even caught one mistake in your own newspaper! Hopefully, you make the correction he pointed out so we all know all 5 of these low life non-beings had records and not only 4 as your newspaper wrongfully cited. Otherwise your reporting on the incident was very good!

I would like to see an editorial asking the NPD to notch it up a little. It really does look odd that they have time to monitor the Napergate Man while they have no time to monitor drug houses in Naperville!

I think Chief David Dial's days may be numbered if he does not get his priorities straight. He should not be dabbling in politics and trying to keep the establishment in power at the expense of the Napergatians. As Blogger Kevin noted, the Napergatians seem to becoming rooted with the masses and average citizens who do not have the fringes benefits of the minority in power. Usually, you see a domino collapse when you reach the point we are at.

As Host Ted once said, the Napergate Man and his organization got the ammunition from the city in the old days to poke huge holes in their credibility. He failed to note that nothing has changed and they continue doing more of the same with or without their leader. They are just not able to publicize it as well without those powerful Napergate Ads. That is all they are missing to uproot the Establishment!

Heaven's Gate,

Do you realize how immature you look on these blogs. You change your name from post to post but your "Heaven's Gate" quote identifies you each time. I wish Host Ted would not allow you to play on these threads as it takes away their beauty and purpose.

Host Ted has a chance to make these threads the best thing that ever happened to Naperville since Napergate or allow your likes to take them down the sewar! I hope he makes the right choice sooner rather than later!

The Napergatians are asking good quetions that most of us want answered. I wish you would spend some of your time answering them, instead of being obsessed with the Napergate Man and his followers.

Internal Affairs is not providing a Watch Dog duty on our police department. They are a borderline bad joke. Never heard of a police department that could investigate itself with a semblance of credibility. Just another reason Chief David Dial needs to be replaced as the Fire Chief is being replaced. He is so far behind the times.

The Naperville Sun is afraid to provide a Watch Dog duty.

Yes, the Napergate Man was bold and provided us with a Watch Dog duty but obviously he paid a heavy price as the Naperville Police seem to be harassing him even during his long sabbatical.

So I don't blame the Napergatians for wanting to provide a Watch Dog duty while ANONYMOUS! It is better than NOTHING!

Moderator Jim to Amanda: Sometimes I'm amazed at all the criticism of the NPD. A lot of warrantless attacks, complaints, conspiracy theories abound. Didn't the NPD just solve a murder case in less than 36 hours? If you've been reading the paper I think you would know that. Also, I wonder what all these critics - including you, Amanda - would do if you had a problem - God forbid - affecting your personal safety in the middle of the night. I think you'd probably call 911 for police help. So what gives with all the bashing? The NPD is the reason the crime rate is so low in Naperville - would you like to live in a high-crime area? I think not.

Regarding...By Naperville Sun editors on April 5, 2008 9:40 AM

Moderator Jim,
I just posted on the Napergate Thread before seeing your latest comment.

I think the criticism of the NPD is warranted. They do not communicate with us. I blogged on the Napergate Thread about this $3.15 million police overtime waste. I have been a blogger for a while but I don't post much because I feel no one is listening including you and Host Ted. Why can't you guys get us some answers?

I noticed Blake both commended and condemned the NPD in the same post. You even complemented him for expressing a well articulated point of view.

I feel exactly like Blake. They deserve both commendation and condemnation at the same time. I am impressed with the speed of the arrests and it seems like they got the right guys.

But I read much of what Blake read in those newspapers. This was an ongoing drug house that was not being monitored. At least 8 people were involved not counting all that left the party. If the NPD was driving the subdivision once an hour they would know what is going on. I live in a subdivision and I rarely see a police car. I can't remember the last time I saw a police car...honestly! How can they know what is going on in our town if they don't drive the subdivisions. Yes, you see tons of police near the downtown, major streets and coffee houses. But not where we live unless we call them.

I don't see why you don't agree with Blake that this murder was preventable and the police department most take responsibility. The whole town knows the Napergate Man's liquor licenses were revoked 2 or 3 times for innocent mistakes. The police dept. hath no mercy. Now you want us to have mercy on them when they allow a murder to take place that could have been prevented. This is much worse than an employee slipping up and selling to a minor after carding a 100,000 customers in a row.

Police Chief Dial sets these high standards for the Napergate Man. I am a Napergatian and will not pretend I am not one and be pretentious like Quick Question. As a Napergatian, I want to hold my police chief to the same very high standards he holds my leader to. The Napergate Man may have made some mistakes. Most likely not him but his employees. He and his employees are now shining examples of how to fight booze and minors.

Is Chief David Dial a shining example of how to fight drugs in town and in our schools and colleges? Some lady in a previous blog mentioned an African American with the initials of D. B. who is providing drugs to our youth and kids. I know exactly who she is talking about. He is out there corrupting our youths. Encouraging our youths to go to Dominick's and Jewel and steal booze. Providing drugs to our youth! What the h@ll! The whole town knows about this idiot and he can not be stopped!

Rather than tailing the Napergate Man, has the NPD thought of tailing this guy and getting him for every legitimate traffic violation until he knows he is not welcome in our town.

We have a police officer at Naperville Central where my kids go to school. And yet the police tell me there are a 50-100 small time drug dealers in that school and we can not get them because they are constantly changing. Can you believe that, Moderator! The police officer in that school did not make that statement but another police officer made it to me when I was inquiring about the drug problem in Naperville Central. (Sorry to disappoint those in District 204 who think only WVHS has drug problems)

They should crack the whip and have ZERO TOLERANCE! We have a problem in our high schools and they have 12 police officers posted on Chicago Ave. when they only need 3. Everyone knows that and they are wasting our money and resources being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If Chief Dial was not a columnist in your newspaper, you would see our viewpoint. Since you are encountering a conflict of interest you are not seeing our viewpoint.

Maybe we are all right and you are wrong, Mr. Moderator! The people on your blogs who bash the Napergate Man and what he stands for have no viewpoints. All they do is bash him! Why don't you throw them a holler and tell them you want some viewpoints, some research, some facts! Why do you tolerate such behavior on your threads?

This heaven's gate psycho should not be allowed to blog on your site. If this is the best the city could put up to defend its reputation, a psycho, are you really not understanding why more and more people are becoming Napergatians.

I have been a Napergatian a long time. Host Ted, I believe once said I was the first one to ever to blog about the Napergate Man many months ago. I am proud I blogged about him. I did not think it would ever escalate into all this because I felt like MENTIONING HIM in my FIRST BLOG on your site! .

This morning, I noticed 3 or 4 new bloggers I have never seen before speaking highly of him and his Napergate Movement.

When you see the same 5 guys bloggin in support of the city for 5 months unable to muster much support, does that not tell you something Mr. Moderator.

You can praise the Chief all you want. Hail to the Chief of Police! How far is that going to get you when he has $3.15 million dollars of unexplained overtime? How far is that going to get you when he has his police officers arresting the Napergate Man in a pre-planned event over nothing? They should have told the Napergate Man that his license was suspended before he got in his vehicle, to call for a ride, and to have it taken care of Monday morning at the Secretary State's Office.

And left Chicago Ave. and looked for DRUG HOUSES instead of the Napergate Man. What has happened with this murder makes the arrest of the Napergate Man look so stupid.

And honestly, Moderator Jim, because you are unwilling to do that FOIA combined with your statement today, it looks like you are covering for Chief Dial. That is how we all see it.

You should do a true FOIA and see when they ran the Napergate Man's plate. That would be a telling story as to where they have their energies focused and where they should have their energies focused.

Maybe as Blake hinted they gave the Napergate Man some tough love at some point a quarter of a century ago. Look at what became of him. I can tell you I don't live in Huntington Estates or Pembroke Commons and yet he is the talk of my subdivision when I see neighbors walking their dogs or playing with their children.

My point is if we would give our Police Chief some tough love, we may be able to save his job. If we don't I see him resigning under massive pressure very soon. The only reason he is still in office is the Naperville Sun print edition is very soft on him.

Napergate is so hot on your blogs and non-existent in your newspapers. That has my subdivision wondering if your print newspaper is in cahoots with the establishment. Whether it is, Moderator Jim, or it is not, the appearance and feeling throughout my subdivision is your paper is in bed with the ESTABLISHMENT! You are not representing 2 viewpoints in your print edition. Only one viewpoint! On your blog site, you do an EXCELLENT JOB as you are finally allowing FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION as it was meant to be. I SALUTE YOU FOR THAT!

Amanduh, I need not respond, only to say thankyou to the Naperville Sun editors for again calling it like it is and addressing how nutty you people are.

Naperville avoided the killing of THREE MEN by LUCK!

The police chief said the the killing wasn't the intention of the robbers - it was simply a robbery "gone bad".

What did he EXPECT to hear from the murderers? Is there such a thing as a robbery "gone good"?

These negroes PLANNED to kill all three, simply to eliminate all witnesses to the crime.

If Rosales, who probably realized all were about to be executed, did not resist by refusing to lie face down on the floor, ALL THREE would've been KILLED.

The two who survived this robbery/killing owe their lives to Rosales. He was the only one with "smarts" to forsee what was about to happen and had the courage to resist.

I hope this incident has the effect of turning around the lives of the 2 survivors and all drug users who read the story.

To all those who believe there is no difference between the races, I have a lovely apartment building (fully occupied!) in Aurora I'd like to sell you - CHEAP !!!

P.S. to this newspaper: The role of the press is to REPORT the NEWS, not to pick sides in support or criticism of the police or government. JUST the REPORT the FACTS PLEASE, and I'LL draw my own conclusions.

By Naperville Sun editors on April 5, 2008 9:40 AM
Moderator Jim to Amanda: The NPD is the reason the crime rate is so low in Naperville - would you like to live in a high-crime area? I think not.

____________________________________________________________________

Moderator Jim,
With all due respect as they say....the crime rate is not so low in Naperville because of the NPD.

The crime rate is very low because we are the wealthiest town in America with over 100,000 people as has been reported several times on your blog site based on Mony Magazine and CNN.

Everywhere you drive in Naperville, you now see huge mansions. Million dollar homes are everywhere. People living in million dollar homes don't rob retail stores...they don't murder for drugs....they don't kill for a few dollars...they don't burglarize homes at night for a TV.

So let us not give the NPD credit where credit is not due.

In some kind of reverse twisted logic, maybe one can say the NPD is such a terrible police force since we lead the state in DUIs(not counting Chicago). DUIs are a very serious crime! So is the NPD a terrible police force because we have the most DUI criminals? That would translate to HIGH CRIME! I think not as you think not!

If the Chicago Police Dept. took over Naperville they would have a very low crime rate. If the Naperville Police Dept. took over the south side of Chicago they would have a very high crime rate. How is that for unflawed logic?

It is obvious your argument is very flawed. Praising the NPD for having a low crime rate that has nothing to do with them serves no purpose.

I think we need an investigation as to why this drug house was not busted before it led to this terrible shooting. Too many people were involved and the NPD was clueless!

The NPD is clearly responsible for this murder! I agree with Blake that it was preventable...easily preventable....the NPD fell asleep behind the wheel of the Hummer in downtown...that is what really happened....it is time for them to wake up....nap time is over!!!

Moderator Jim to Ernie: With respect, your logic is so flawed it defies reality. According to your take, affluent areas are relatively immune from crime. Following from that, what if the NPD just disbanded and the city decided not to have a police force? According to your reasoning - because of the monied people of privilege who live in Naperville - we would have hardly any crime anway, so who needs cops? That's a class distinction you're drawing that carries both racial overtones and is devoid of any kind of understanding of how the real world works. Disband the NPD and see what would happen - riots in the streets.

Dieder Hess,

I agree with you totally. Your scenario makes a lot of sense. Just as Blake makes a lot of sense. For the police chief to tell us it was unintentional is shameful and insulting to our intellect.

I can not believe Moderator Jim takes his word as if it was the gospel.

This Police Chief has failed us over and over again. He calls First Degree Murder unintentional. Will County disagreed with him and charged them appropriately with intentional pre-meditated First Degree Murder. Kudos to Will County Prosecutors!

I bet you are right that if Rosales did not resist we would have had a Brown's Chicken type slaughter. These guys were nasty criminals involved in a horrific crime. Unfortunately, John Rosales was stupid and ignorant for being involved with thugs and drugs. But at least in his last moments he was in a very ironic way, a hero. He apparently resisted execution and chased after the alleged murderers. He saved 2 lives but could not save his own. The NPD saved no lives while they chase around after the Napergate Man for his political views. How disgraceful a police dept. could have acted in that manner on Chicago Ave? How shameful they were conspiring after the Napergate Man instead of these druggies? Is this could police work? What is there to be proud of? Nothing!

This was a drug house according to the media for a long time. There was no excuse not to have detected it and done something about it.

In reading these blog sites for the most part it is obvious the Naperville Sun is siding with the City and Naperville Police. In the eyes of the Sun they can do no wrong. If the Sun knew how to criticize and keep a watchful eye we would not be in this sad predicament. The Sun is so wimpy it can't even muster the courage or a few minutes to file an FOIA to show us if the arrest of the Napergate Man was pre-meditated. I like many others believe it is not being done because the Naperville Sun knows it was pre-meditated and does not want to embarrass the NPD for going after the Napergate Man for his political views and actions of the past. If the Sun does not like all this specualtion, it should seek the facts as it is its duty and let us come to our OWN conclusions. Are we asking a lot of our newspaper which is less than a mile away from NPD headquarters to get us some FACTS???

The Napergatians are articulate. They make sense! The city supporters can't even put together a sentence let alone articulate. All they do is attack Napergatians for their articulate views. They always start it on these threads, Moderator Jim. The only thing the Napergatians do wrong is respond to them. They should ignore them and continue articulating.

As far as our Host and Moderator, they have lost all credibility with their biased comments. I have never seen a newspaper so frightened of a police dept. If this police department has ever threatened you, then call the FBI but stop catering to City Officials and Police when they are certainly wrong.

Be brave like Pamela Davis from Edward's Hospital. When she was threatened with a pay-off she blew the whistle. If you feel threatened or are threatened, blow the whistle against the NPD. The FBI will intervene and help you guys out in the Naperville Sun and release the pressure gauge! Have no fear they will be here in no time if you call!

But to continue opinionating as you are is DISGRACEFUL! Especially if you are not being PRESSURED!

Once again great job, Dieder Hess! Great job to all the Napergatians! Great job Ms. Pamela Davis! And great job, Mr. Napergate Man for starting all this and standing up to City Hall and the City Police for a quarter century! Please come back, Mr. Napergate Man! We could really use a MAN like you in these nutty times!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. As has been mentioned numerous time, Miderator Jim, your allowing the Police Chief to run a column in your newspaper has the appearance of a major conflict of interest. I would also feel uncomfortable criticizing the police chief and his dept. if he had a column in my newspaper. But I would be smart enough not to let him have a column in my newspaper in the first place. I know you did not make the mistake but someone before you did and it needs to be addressed, corrected and dealt with. Sooner is better than later! Thank you for allowing me to blog and let out some steam.

A murder in my town is not something I take lightly. We should never become immune to these murders like Chicago and Aurora and allow it to be business as usual. A murder like this that could have easily been a slaughter of 3 residents should be investigated fully in order to make sure it can be prevented next time. It is the duty of the Naperville Sun to investigate this murder fully and not buy the propanganda of the Police Chief. And while you are at it, please don't forget to get us the time of the running of the plates of the Napergatge Man. That has great relevance as to whether the NPD has its priorities straight or if they are misguided. WE ALL NEED TO KNOW!!!

Moderator Jim,

Your last comment to Ernie was very Joe-like. I can not believe you have lowered yourself to be Joe-like.

Ernie never said who needs cops! Ernie never said to disband the NPD!

You are suddenly saying all this! Why sacrifice your credibility on the NPD? Is there performance worth sacrificing your reputation?

Ernie said if the Chicago Police took over Naperville we would also have low crime. Ernie said if the Naperville Police took over the south side of Chicago there would be high crime as there already is. He never said anything about having no police! Of course it would be chaos with no police dept. in a wealthy town! We are not illiterate in this town! Please, Moderator Jim!!

He made a great point that was FLAWLESS LOGIC as he correctly stated. As Dieder Hess stated, give us the facts. Now you are not only not giving us the facts but twisting the facts that others give to you to come up with flawed opinion and logic to support the NPD.

As many said give the Naperville Police some tough love as they gave the Napergate Man some tough love. He has obviously excelled in his life in all he has done. Maybe the NPD can one day excell as the Napegate Man has.

I love reading about how the Napergate Man confiscates these fake and fraudulent IDs and keeps liquor out of the hands and mouths of our children. I would also love to read one day about the NPD confiscating all the drugs in town. If the Napergate Man can stop the flow of booze to our minors which is no easy task, then the NPD should be able to stop the flow of drugs to our youth. No EXCUSES! Let us get the job done just like the Napergate Man found a way to get the job done! Is our police department INCOMPETENT??? Are they not up to the TASK???

The NPD needs to be cleaned up just like the Chicago PD was recently.

The new "OUTSIDE" police chief for Chicago, Jody Weis, quickly replaced the commanders of 21 of the city's 25 districts and made the new ones ride patrol during the night shift over the last weekend.

OVERSTAFFED police departments in low crime areas like Naperville get too comfortable, bored, careless, sloppy, lazy, etc. They simply end up counting down the days until their pension - which is very cushy, according to the posts.

Next, they start acting on personal agendas and get used by the powers that be as personal security forces. Eventually the town becomes a "fiefdom" of the ones holding power.

The last murder should be a wake up for the all.

Let's not become another "BOLINGCROOK", the laughing stock of the nation.

People get the government they deserve - keep this in mind every time you cast a ballot

Moderator Jim and Host Ted,

You are fighting a losing battle trying to defend the Naperville Police Department and its credibility. The facts blare against you!

I suspect an FOIA the Napergate Man filed on the NPD which revealed he had confiscated 206 Fake IDs as compared to 38 for the remaining 104 liquor licenses combined really caught the Naperville Police completely off guard. After this evidence was presented to the numerous courts during the appeal process after the Kangaroo Trial, the City of Naperville and its police department have never recovered in credibility and/or reputation.

Yes, when you do the ratio, you come close to that 5.5 being mentioned on your blog sites by Napergatians. It is actually 5.42 times as many as all other liquor establishments combined. I obtained my information off the internet from the court records. I believe this information may also be part of your newspapers as Napergate Ads were in them.

This terrible ratio indicated the Naperville Police Department was incompetent in controlling liquor establishments in town. Booz was most probably flowing from nearly every establishment to minors except from the Napergate Man's establishments. It should be noted Police Chief David Dial was in charge at the time of this chaos and remains in charge during the new chaos we are experiencing these days. As stated,

By Dieder Hess on April 5, 2008 2:17 PM
"Naperville avoided the killing of THREE MEN by LUCK!"

Not from good police work! Resistance by John Rosales may have presented the slaughter of three individuals!

Now we are learning that drugs are flowing to our youth and even adults from many corners of our town and surrounding towns. Armed thugs are running around our town stealing drugs, money and killing in the process. The Naperville Police Dept. can not control the flow of drugs in our schools, our streets, or our office buildings. Why is the Naperville Sun praising our Chief of Police and his police officers for their performance after the fact? What is there to praise? A life was lost and we almost lost 3 due to lack of preventive policing! An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of medicine. We did not even have a half of an ounce coming out of our 300 person police department!

The NPD proved it was a political and not a police organization when they participated in revoking the Napergate Man's liquor licenses. By far the strictest retailer in town before the revocation, after the revocation and to this date based on what Liquor Man Rick is reporting.

Of course, we need a police department in town, Moderator Jim! But we do not need a below average police department in Naperville. We need an above average police dept. We do not need a below average Police Chief! We need an above average Police Chief!

If the Napergate Man can step it up and fight the flow of booze to minors with the help of a few employees, why can't the 300 member Naperville Police Dept. step it up and stop the flow of drugs in our town! It is time they get the job done before we become the next Aurora or Chicago! Our police department needs to implement the preventive measures it has failed to adopt in the past. The Naperville Sun needs to demand in an editorial that the NPD needs to perform to the same high standards the Napergate Man is required to function at. The Napergate Man is obviously performing! The Naperville Police Dept. is obviously not performing! They are failing the residents and taxpayers while collecting $3.15 million in overtime pay. You would think with this kind of overtime there would be ZERO DRUG DEALERS IN TOWN AND ZERO TOLERANCE OF DRUGS!!!

Connie,

"I love reading about how the Napergate Man confiscates these fake and fraudulent IDs and keeps liquor out of the hands and mouths of our children. I would also love to read one day about the NPD confiscating all the drugs in town."

I'm sure some people would be suing for violation of 4th amendment if that happened and would even call the police *gasp* Fascists.

So if I have this right, according to the cult members, the Napergate man should be appointed police chief and there will be no more crime in Naperville. Sounds like there will also be a lack of rights leading to a police state if his followers are appointed as the police force.

Ken, et.al.,

There is no need to be asinine in your responses.

The true point folks are trying to make about the NapergateMan is that he exposed the City's structure, and particualrly it's PD, as having chasm-sized cracks and weaknesses.

These included an unbridled assault on the individual rights of the citizens of the city!

The analogy to the Furstenau issues is germane. Again, the PD and the City power structure tried to ramrod their will over another individual, most likely violating his rights in the process (only the courts will tell!).

The City's powerstructure, like the time before, carried so much hubris with it that it failed to recognize the status of it's efforts and continued (indeed, continues!) to mount these violations upon themselves.

The difference? In this case, the pewrson they have elected to attack was a part of their power structure, a sitting councilman, and a State Senate candidate. Like NapergateMan, Furstenau did not take it sitting down. Once againm the City and PD selected an indivdual that Bites Back!

I hope their wounds require "stitches". Several individuals overstepped their boundaries (think Rosanova & Wehrli), while others tried to manipulate it all from behind the scenes while wanting to look like they had disappeared (think Pradel).

Joe,
I just posted on the Napergate Thread so I am not going to repeat myself.

But I find your comment very ironic. What resident have been saying is that the NPD should have ran the plates of these thugs at the drug house and known how dangerous they were. They should have known about the drug house since drugs were being used and/or dispensed from it for some time.

Now you are saying if they do this kind of surveillance we would call "the police *gasp* Fascists." However when we objected to the surveillance of the Napergate Man while he was walking his dog, you stated the police can do whatever they want and run his plate whenever they please. You stated license plates are the property of the state. Now in a sudden turnaround you state this would be GASP FASCISM!

It is just shows you have double standards and support anything the establishment does as long as it furthers its political goals. You obviously have a hidden agenda of keeping this incompetent Establishment Party in POWER.

I did state on my morning post on the Napergate Thread that this police overtime is costing my household $70 dollars per year and it is a complete waste of taxpayer money that most be halted. I will be voting for Dick Furstenau in the next election as he seems to be the only one concerned about police overtime besides the Napergatians.

I hope everyone enjoys this nice Sunday Morning! And may John Rosales soul rest in peace! It is unfortunate he could not have been saved from himself and these criminal elements roaming our streets!

By Dieder Hess on April 5, 2008 10:57 PM
The NPD needs to be cleaned up just like the Chicago PD was recently.

OVERSTAFFED police departments in low crime areas like Naperville get too comfortable, bored, careless, sloppy, lazy, etc. They simply end up counting down the days until their pension - which is very cushy, according to the posts.

Next, they start acting on personal agendas and get used by the powers that be as personal security forces. Eventually the town becomes a "fiefdom" of the ones holding power.

The last murder should be a wake up for the all.

*******************************************************************

Dieder Hess,
I enjoyed reading your last 2 posts. They were insightful and informative. Naperville has been a "fiefdom" since its inception. Not even the Napergate Man has been able to end "fiefdom" rule but admittedly came very close with 4 out of 9 on the council. Of course one deserted after the Brestal Law Firm gave his son a lucrative contract as a lawyer there. Those things happen in "fiefdoms."

When you read what Lucas wrote right after your post, you see the "fiefdom" in operation. I am surprised Host Ted and Moderator Jim are not grasping that something is wrong in this town when one retailer opposed to the establishment can confiscate 5.42 times as many fake IDs as 104 that may have leanings for or support the establishment. Obviously, if these liquor licensees support the establishment they are left alone. If they go against the establishment the message is we will do to you what we did to the Napergate Man despite the fact that he won the National Title for most responsible drinking campaign in the nation. None of his credentials matter to us. All that matters is that one plays by 'fiefdom" rules and keeps us in power.

Yes, drugs and booze flow freely in our "fiefdom." The establishment wants to keep the boozers and druggies happy in order to get their votes at election time. A murder here or there means nothing to them. Staying in power means everything to them!

Ken,

I don't know who you are. But your comments of calling the Napergate Man a cult leader and his thousands of Napergatian and Napervillian supporters, cultists crosses a line in the sand.

As far as I am concerned you are engaging in character assassination and I would like to see Mr. Jim Lynch stop publishing your comments. When did the Napergate Man ask his followers to drink spiked Kool Aid and attempt to get them to do something against their will? When did he impair their judgment? When did he ever hold hypnosis sessions in an attempt to brainwash anyone?

Why don't you try to explain city positions instead of calling a man of good reputation a cultist leader? What is your agenda, Mr. Ken?

From my observations, not only Napergatians but Napervillians are writing their opinions and thoughts on these threads. You are attacking everyone who is against the establishment. You are attacking residents and not their messages.

Anyway, I hope the Naperville Sun draws the line somewhere in the sand and keeps this blog site an avenue of infomative communication between residents and not an avenue to deliver character assassinations against those who try to express a simple opinion.

Moderator Jim to Joan: Again, the Napergatians are blaming the messenger - the same one who gave them the open forum for their discussion. It's also curious the way the Napergatians seems to take every thread and somehow impart a Napergatian twist to whatever is being discussed. As for the cultist comments - though your "Koolaid" metaphor does evoke the Jim Jones tragedy, I would just like to remind you of the sign that appeared in the background of a photo of Jones at his compound in Guyana just before the mass suicide. It quoted the American philosopher George Santayana, who said - in an oft repeated phrase - ''Those who forget the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat them." Finally, I think the onus is on the Napergatian bloggers to clean up their own act whether it be character assasination, name calling etc. etc. It's up to you - collectively - to draw that line in the sand.

By Joe on April 6, 2008 12:04 AM
Connie,

I'm sure some people would be suing for violation of 4th amendment if that happened and would even call the police *gasp* Fascists.

Joe,
You may not realize it but we already have "GASP FASCISM" in town.

Do you realize that our Mayor is a police officer, our City Manager is a police officer, our Police Chief is a police officer, and the head of our Park District police is a police officer. Even the Judge who was appointed by the Mayor in that infamous Kangaroo Trial against the Napergate Man was a PARK DISTRICT POLICE OFFICER.

If sounds to me we have more than the "fiefdom" Dieder Hess so eloquently describes. We may even have a "police fiefdom" in this town keeping the Establishment in power. It is quite frightening if you ask me. It is no wonder so many people consider this Napergate Man a hero. Look it what he took on! Look at the odds against him!
The poor guy never really had a chance. I am surprised he got all he got accomplished against this "police fiefdom." But keep in mind he had to work outside the city limits of the "police fiefdom" to get anything done.

The trial he had held in this "police fiefdom" was the biggest travesty of justice I have ever seen in my life. Think about it...the Napergate Man presents video tape evidence that he is innocent, has more IDs than all other establishments combined times who knows what number, wins national championships, and the "police fiefdom" finds him guilty as charged! (Police Chief David Dial was Chief of Police during this Kangaroo Trial and remains Chief during this latest "PREVENTABLE" murder)

I think that day he was found guilty is when most of us realized we were living in this Establishment Fiefdom. The Fiefdom even controls the Naperville Sun which spreads its propaganda! The Fiefdom controls the Brestal Law Firm which in turn controls zoning! The Fiefdom controls liquor licenses which in turn supports the estbalishment powers! Notice a non-establishment guy like the Napergate Man could not get his 2 liquor licenses from the City of Naperville. A District Judge and 3 Illinois Appellant Judges awarded him his 2 licenses against the WILL OF THE FIEFDOM. He may be the only non-establishment liquor licensee in town!

Well, I hope you all see how a FIEFDOM works. Thanks for pointing that out to us, Dieder Hess!

Nancy,

You fail to recognize sarcasm.

I would be entirely in favor of a house to house sweep to rid the town of drugs and other illegal paraphernalia (illegal firearms, etc). I have nothing to hide in my house. I would venture a guess that some people would call that tactic FASCIST. Some on these blogs have called arresting a man for driving on a suspended license a FASCIST act.

Wow, the Naperville Sun Editors have finally hit the nail on the head.

The Napergatians are the ones who need to clean up their act and the Sun has again pointed that out. My question to the editors is why give this cult a forum at all? They can easily get their own website and say anything they want.

The Napergatians are the pee-pods (ever see the movie body snatchers, that is what they remind me of.)

Want to rid your town of drugs? Start by pressuring the parents who look the other way and allow drug use in their homes. Educate the parents who are clueless about their child's drug use. When parents take the responsibility to keep their kids off drugs, the dealers have nobody to sell to. Arrest one dealer, another will take his place. Take away the demand and the dealer will go elsewhere to make money. It needs to start at home.

Moderator Jim,

The Napergatians and supporters do not take every thread and impart a Napergatian twist to it. To say "every" is not a true statement. Half your threads are about District 203 and District 204 and the Napergatians are almost non-existent on those threads despite thousands and thousands of posts. They are non-existent on 70-80% of your threads since you started this blog site. On the Fire Chief thread they were attacked twice by city supporters before anyone even blogged even though a Napergatians suggested that thread on the Napergate Thread. Is a Napergatian suppose to suggest a thread, the Host put it on, and be banned from bloggin?

Napergatians are very concerned with police improprieties and zoning improprieties. You will find them on all those threads! Do you expect the entire Napergatian agenda to revolve around the latest arrest of the Napergate Man which of course also concerns us. Speaking of that I would like to join all those who have asked you politely to do an FOIA on the time of the running of the plates. Your failure to do so makes it appear like you may be hiding yet another impropriety by our Naperville Police Dept. As if you are trying to defend them! As if you don't want the truth to be known! That is not what an investigative newspaper does. That is what a fiefdom newspaper of a monarchy does.

But what is wrong with the Napergatians who oppose the Establishment imposing their twist on latest events that concern us and our police department. When we discuss an 18 month old arrest, Host Ted, tells us it is old news and he dose not want to deal with us. When we discuss a current issues, Moderator Jim pops up and tells us we are imparting a Napergatian twist. Well, if we are against the Establishment, do you expect us to impart an Establishment Twist?

I think each and everyone appreciates and loves this Blog Site. It is giving freedom of expression. I think it can influence our leaders to change their bad methods and behavior. I think what is upsetting when we see you and Host Ted trying to defend them instead of letting them come on and defend themselves. They almost seem incapable of defending themselves. Or maybe they are smart enough to realize that they are wrong and it is hard to prove yourself right when you are wrong.

It is lovely to see City Manager make a wrongful and false statement about the cost of the Napergate Man's legal trial and how quickly he is quieted down by the Establishment Powers. It is lovely to see Council Man Bob pop in on us and how quickly Establishment Powers find him to tell him not to blog with us. It is lovely to see Mrs. Police Officer try to engage us in a civil way only to see the Chief of Police order her through her husband to stop blogging after she I believe admitted professional courtesy exists which is tantamount to discrimination against non-police residents. Hypocrisy at its best! Allowing police man to speed while ticketing civilians for doing what police do off duty! Speeding is dangerous and should not be tolerated by police when off duty police officers are caught. They should be ticketed and if a police officer does not enforce the law on another police officer he should be terminated.

Chief David Dial does tolerate this well known professional courtesy in our town by our Naperville Police. This is one good reason he needs to be removed as Police Chief. Another good reason is his role in the Napergate Man's Trial which he was never held accountable for despite so many court decisions showing improprieties were committed by police during that trial. A third good reason is he was not able to prevent this latest murder which was as Blake articulated very well, was preventable. Dieder articulated clearly that it could have easily been a mass murder of 3 and possibly 5 people. Does anyone believe these criminals would not kill those 2 who were conspiring with them so they don't have to split the proceeds of the robbery? These kinds of people need to be found out, snuffed out, way before they get to the point they are murdering Naperville residents!

And Blake was very right in commending the Naperville Police Dept. for its effort after the murder but condemning them for their efforts before the murders which were shameful. What is wrong with that Napergatian point of view? It sounds very well thought out to me! Why would you not want their opinion inserted on this thread, Moderator Jim?

You seem to think we should all come on this thread and praise our Police Department in all circumstances as you in the Naperville Sun tend to do in your print edition! When did you personally ever critique the NPD in a way to show them some tough love to get them to improve their performance in your PRINT EDITION? Maybe never, but I could be wrong since I stopped subscribing shortly after the end of the Napergate ads.

I enjoy reading this blog site daily even though today is my first time bloggin. It is interesting because you are allowing opposing points of view. We appreciate that! You print edition remains in the Stone Age of the fiefdom as Dieder vividly describes.

I am sure the thousands of Napergatians who stopped supporting your newspaper will support it again when you recognize them in your print edition. We got one article in 10 years! Is that fair journalism? The only publicity we got in the past is bought advertising paid in full by the Napergate Man. Is that fair?

He covered issues pertaining to this town, did investigative reporting and paid to have it published. He did it because your print edition refused to do it for whatever reason. It still refuses to do it. It was all very informative and showed us as Anonymous described in his earlier post part cracks in our City structure which I pasted below.

____________________________________________________________________

The true point folks are trying to make about the NapergateMan is that he exposed the City's structure, and particularly it's PD, as having chasm-sized cracks and weaknesses.

These included an unbridled assault on the individual rights of the citizens of the city!

___________________________________________________________________

In summary, I think Napergatians are trying to give you guys some tough love so you can improve your newspaper. You really are having a hard time changing. You are purely appealing to the 16,200 subscribers who are establishment folks. I suspect since the Napergatinas proved their power in the elections is almost equal to that of the Establishment, you are missing out on 16,200 subscribers from the Napergatian side.

You have chosen to be pro-establishment and live with an embarrassing subscription total of 16,200 in a town that exceeds 150,000 residents. If you were running an neutral paper, you would have double that subscription total easily. People don't want a newspaper that spews the propaganda of the establishment in each edition.

City Manager Bob Marshall blatantly lied about the cost of the Napergate Trial to your own reporter. You did not have the courage of running an editorial and holding our top leader accountable for his blatant lie. If nothing else that tells your left-over subscribers your are in BED WITH OUR CITY OFFICIALS!

Do what you want with your print edition? It is your newspaper. Continue running it as a tabloid mouth piece for the establishment! Continue giving a column to Chief Dial to tell us how great he and his police department are? Where is the opposing point of view? Where is your columnist who has half the courage of the Napergate Man to hold the police dept. accountable for anything.

Of course you guys don't want to hear about the Napergate Man or what he exposed about our town. Of course you want to discourage us from writing about what he exposed. It is relevant because it continues unabated.

If you want us to chase us off your blog sites because of our Napergatian points of view, you have every right to do so. Most of your bloggers outside the school district threads are Napergatians or Napergatian sympathizers. Chase us off and you will destroy your blog site as you destroyed your newspaper! Is that how your strategy to improve your ratings? Obviously it is a bad strategy that will backfire! Most city supporters have no interest in bloggin or change as they are extremely happy with the STATUS QUO!

You blame us for blogging on other threads. But at one point you gave the District 204 people 7 threads while pushing our only live thread off. And you would not even put it in the archived link section so we could find it easily! It seems that was being done deliberately to decrease blogging by Napergatians...and then you blame us for bloggin on other threads and giving our opinion which of course may include a Napergatian twist since we are Napergatians because our beliefs are very similar to the Napergate Man's who exposed his beliefs over 2 decades through paid ads in your newspaper.

Moderator Jim, you know WE are using your threads to put heat on our City Officials and Police in the same way the Napergate Man used his Napergate Ads to put heat on City Officials and Police. That should be obvious to you. It is not a hidden agenda of the Napergatians. It is either you allow us to use your threads or don't allow us to use your threads. You own them! We can not force you to allow us to use them! We appreciate being allowed to use them but we don't appreciate being told what we can say and what we can not say. I suspect no one in the Establishments wants to hear the Napergate Man's name for fear he may one day resurface! He obviously does pose a threat to the establishment! The establishment knows that. Are you aware, Moderator Jim, that the Napergate Man poses a serious political threat to the establishment? If you are not sure, ask Tim West?!?!? Mr. West knows what kind of threat the Napergate Man poses to the establishment!

Finally, if you think we are going to come on here to praise the NPD for a murder that should have been prevented, you are mistaken. If you strictly want us to praise City Officials and honor them on your blog site as you and Ted do, you are dreaming. It isn't going to happen. We would rather be banned than be forced to SALUTE CORRUPTION!

========================================================

Host Ted,

Obtaining that FOIA on the time of the license plate check of the Napergate Man will do your newspaper a lot of good. It will give you credibilty with the Napergatians. It will tell us if he was targeted or not in a discriminatory fashion. He was stopped at 215am. If his plate was run at 1230am, I think it speaks volumes especially if no other license plates of PARKED VEHICILES were run on Chicago Ave. that fateful evening as you correctly COINED IT. Not finding out if other parked vehicles were run on Chicago Ave. during that time slot, will cause more questions to arise than answers.

After the Toll Authority notice obtained by Diana was not published while you were on vacation by the Naperville Sun, possibly because it could not be authenticated, it became imperative that the Sun file the FOIA in order for the Sun and its readers to know it is coming from a responsible organization that can be held accountable as opposed to a nameless blogger who can not be held accountable.

Thanks in advance for your consideration in filing another FOIA and helping us bloggers get some answers instead of spending our time uselessly speculating. I think it will force both sides of the debate to focus on facts instead of attacking each other based on nonsensical and wasteful specualtion.

Joan, my post on the 4th at 8:04pm explains what a cult is and why the napergatians fit that definition. By the way, Jim, thanks for your comments that seem to agree with some of mine. Amazing that we don't agree on many things, yet still can debate without resorting to the tactics you mentioned.

Once again, how can the majority of the posts here equate a legal arrest for a suspended license, or the legal confiscation of false identification to illegal drug dealings that happen behind closed doors? How can you call any robbery or murder between drug using criminals preventable? As the so called war on drugs has shown, there is no easy solution to the drug problem in the country. Naperville and other suburban towns are lucky to suffer few such results of the drug use that occurs everywhere. Unless you are all willing to give up your 4th amendment rights, there will always be a drug problem no matter who is the police chief.

Well said Ken... The parents are the 1st line of defense, when they are not involved the problems begin. Then the cops eventually deal with their kids and I know its hard to believe, but these same parents complain the cops are picking on poor johnny boy.

Parents need to be involved and know what their kids are doing which is what we are missing these days.

PS, dont worry Sun Editors, as I see a cult member has threatened to destroy the paper again, it never ends with these nuts.

Martin,

It does not surprise me that many people serving the city and the public are former police officers. "To Protect and to Serve" actually means something. Fancy that.

Ken,

I think almost everyone understands after Diana's thorough work for weeks, that the wrongful license suspension was a result of incompetence a the Toll Authority that was 5 years behind on its work and started farming out its work to outside agencies. We understand the Naperville Police is not responsible for the wrongful licence suspension of the Napergate Man.

No one is saying the Napergate Man is above the law. We are questioning the Sergeant who felt a need to humiliate him with jailing instead of allowing him to turn himself in voluntarily for booking as he would allow Council Men Grant Werhi or John Rosanova! This is very bothersome to us Napergatians. People like you, Joe, Host Ted, and Moderator Jim refuse to discuss favoritism given to the Establishment Folks as described by Dierder Hess! You always change and divert the subject...almost like CHICKENS!

You refuse to discuss ABUSE OF DISCRETION which is the issue here....not the license suspension! You refuse to discuss the possible discriminatory running of his plates while he was walking his dog in a selective and targeted manner....almost like CHICKENS!

You refuse to discuss the unfortunate treatment of a little lovely white dog who was allowed to undergo serious and unnecessary separation anxiety....almost like CHICKENS!

You seem unable to have a civil debate with the Napergate Party and resort to calling them cultists and the Napergate Man a cult leader....almost like CHICKENS!

I think it is high time the City Supporters including Host Ted and Moderator Jim began having a civil and intellectual debate with us Napergatains....there is no need for CHICKENS on this blog site!!!

David,

32.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Napercultians demand the Sun do their dirty work concerning their conspiracy theories (speculation) and want them to quash any opposing view. And they call us bullies? Now that is some funny stuff, I don't care who you are.

News flash cultists; if you want to control what is put in the paper and what bloggers have to say, get your own paper and blog. The Napergate Enquirer has a nice ring to it.

Ken typed:

"Once again, how can the majority of the posts here equate a legal arrest for a suspended license, or the legal confiscation of false identification to illegal drug dealings that happen behind closed doors?"

So Ken, how does the dealer get the drug shipments INTO the drug house?

How are the drug buyers able to transport the drugs OUT of the drug house?

If they ingest the drugs INSIDE the drug house, how are they able to leave UNDER the INFLUENCE, whether they drive, walk, or bicycle to their next destination?

All this was being done for the last 2-3 years that the NPD was aware the drugs were being dealt there!

You mean to tell me that the fine NPD was/is unable to intercept the couriers and customers?

EVEN when they're AWARE of drug dealing?

Even AFTER citizens took the effort and risk to NOTIFY the NPD of the DRUG DEALING?

ALL THIS WAS BEING DONE RIGHT UNDER the NPD's NOSES !!!!

Do you think the citizens of Naperville just fell off the turnip truck?

I would expect that scenario in Harvey, Ford City, East Chicago, Gary, Hazel Crest, etc. - NOT NAPERVILLE !!!

Another thing - I'm willing to bet that CRACK COCAINE, METH or BOTH were the drugs involved in the murder. THAT is the reason the fine chief won't say what the drugs were.

If either of those drugs were involved, Naperville can KISS GOOD BYE their "desirable city" status, not to mention REAL ESTATE VALUES!

ANOTHER FINE MESS YOU GOT US INTO!!!

P.S. The gangbangers have already "tagged" the power supply box in back of Rosales' townhouse with their graffitti. I wouldn't be surprised to see more killings as the drug supplier will want to get paid for the drugs and/or money that was stolen during the murder.

As you say, "Have a nice day".

"We understand the Naperville Police is not responsible for the wrongful licensce suspension of the Napergate Man."

David, how was the suspension wrongful? The law is the owner of a vehicle that has unpaid tolls will get their license suspended, after many notices to pay up. That is the only way to get scofflaws attention, as in the NGM's case, his daughter was a habitual toll evader. I bet he paid up the unpaid tolls real quickly after his arrest to get his license re instated.See, the system works.

Dieder,

I too wish that certain people would stop complaining about police overtime and actually pony up for more men and pay to squash the little bit of crime that still actually exists in this town.

As for how drugs get into the house, that can happen in a multitude of ways and some of those ways are not the jurisdiction of the NPD. The Postmaster General has teams that do narcotics enforcement for delivered packages. Has anyone barked up their tree lately? I know they have their hands full each and every day. It would take more tax money to up their force and I would certainly be willing to pay for it. Would you or would the Napergatians be willing to pay more money for more enforcement?

Dieder,

Educate everyone and tell us who is on 'on the take' in the department.

Tell us who is paying them and roughly how much and what they are paid for.

A few observations:

*The money is in Naperville, so this is where the gangs want to sell drugs.

*Since we don't have gang bangers standing on every street corner selling drugs, the police must be doing something right.

*Do we have gang bangers operating in Naperville? Absolutely yes. Open your eyes, the ones that dress like gang bangers probably are or are in the training program which includes lots of property crimes.

*Do we have houses that look like 7-11 stores in Naperville? Yes. Is it easy for the NPD to shut them down? No.

*Will people that wear hoods, knee length shirts, coats that are five sizes too big and pants pulled down to their knees while they walk their pit bulls claim they are being persecuted by the police if they stop them? Yes.

*Are there low-life landlords that rent the 7-11 store houses to gangs in Naperville? Yes. Should the houses be confiscated, I think so.

*Could the police have stopped this murder, probably not even if they were driving by when it happened? Could the low-life landlord have stopped it? Probably yes.

*Are their too many police in Downtown Naperville? Try living in the downtown with all of the low-life landlords that we have here and decide for yourself.

*Would I feel safer if at some future date the people that are convicted of the murder dropped through a trap door with a rope around their necks? Yes.

Dieder, I will assume that your lack of knowledge on drug matters is a mostly good thing. I say mostly, because the same lack of knowledge leads you to make assumptions on what the police can do to stop the drug dealing and using.

You ask how the dealers move their products undetected. From what I have read in various articles over the years, most of those drugs are moved in quantities that are easily concealed under normal clothing. The police need probable cause to do a strip search and a hunch of suspicious activity does not count as probable cause. If the police run the suspects plates and they come back clean, they have no probable cause to pull them over. If they make up a reason, they still have no probable cause to search the vehicle or person. Drug dealer's lawyers are used to getting their clients off when the police act illegally. It is easy to sit behind your computer and say what the police should do, but the 4th amendment keeps them from doing most of what you want them to do.

In answer to your question, even if the police are aware of the dealers, it is very hard to meet the requirements of the law and be able to charge and convict them.

Saying that knowledge of drug use will make property values go down in Naperville is laughable. Once again, anyone who bothers to read the major newspapers or watch the news knows that drug use is rampant in the affluent communities as well as the poor communities.

By RJ on April 6, 2008 6:52 PM
David, how was the suspension wrongful? The law is the owner of a vehicle that has unpaid tolls will get their license suspended, after many notices to pay up. That is the only way to get scofflaws attention, as in the NGM's case, his daughter was a habitual toll evader. I bet he paid up the unpaid tolls real quickly after his arrest to get his license re instated.See, the system works.

____________________________________________________________________

RJ,
Your statement shows you are very mean spirited and wanted the Napergate Man arrested and humiliated for something he did not even know about.

Here is why the suspension was wrongful according to what I learned from this blog site.

1.T.B. says the Toll Authority is required to give 35 days notice before suspension. .

2. According to the Tollway Gals who provided evidence to the Moderator he was sent a first bulk rate notice from Houston either on July 5 or July 6 that he did not received by July 7th, the day of his arrest.

3. Moderator Jim has a copy of the notice and has not disputed Tollway Diana's comments.

4.The Napergate Man did not receive "many notices" as you say. He received ONE first notice for these 4 violations. The Toll Authority does not send individual notices for each violation. We all know that from experiences or reading this blog site.

5. T.B. says they sent notices after 5 violations, Joe said after 4 violations, Ken said after 3 violations(but he may have been talking about another kind of violation), Diana's girl friend from the Toll Authority said the practice is 4 or more, the Tollway Chief said they do it after 3 or more.( The Toll Chief has reason to put fear in the public and exaggerate a little from when they may actually start pursuing...that would be normal)

6. Obviously when you say he "got many notices to pay up" you are telling a BLATANT LIE!. Unless of course, everyone in ITEM 5 is lying. I will believe everyone in #5 and be bold and say I believe you are LYING!

7. The toll notice that was presented to Moderator Jim did not state he would be suspended. It said according to Diana his license "may" be suspended if he did not pay up. Thus it was a warning to pay and not a warning to actually suspend and arrest.

8.He was never given a chance to pay or even a chance to find out his daughter blew off a $1.60 in tolls at age 16.

9.If I recall correctly between her 3rd violation and her 4th violation was 5 months.(Feb. to July) It does not sound like she was habitual offender. It sounds like after 5 months she was caught without change or in the wrong lane accidentally. She obviously paid all her tolls for the 5 months between 3 and 4. She also had no violations after her 4th even though she/her Dad did not receive any notices of violation for these until nearly 4 years later. Thus when you call her a habitual toll evader, RJ, you are LYING!

10. Yes, he did pay up quickly after his arrest. But he seems like the kind of person who would also paid up quickly if he would have just gotten his notice in time. He would have never risked getting a suspension and be arrested for $83.20 cents. Why do you enjoy, that he was arrested and humiliated over something so petty, Mr.RJ?
You actually seem happy he got this treatment. The few city supporters who blog with the Napergatians all seem to have had trouble with the Toll Authority and claimed the Toll Authority screwed them up too. Are they all habitual offenders? Are they all losers? Do they all deserve to be arrested before settling their accounts? Do they all deserve to be jailed overnight and humiliated? I think not! It just seems to me RJ, you may be one of the City Officials or City Police who seems to have a VENDETTA against the Napergate Man to feel so strongly about this issue. Let us hope you are not Chief David Dial blogging under RJ! Where is all your hostility coming from since you are suppose to be anonymous and basically a nobody like the rest of us!

Again, unfortunately I am repeating what others said because of false allegations that are made on this thread, that Moderator Jim is allowing to be published.

And again, I see the diversion tactics of the City Supporters to keep talking about the suspension instead of the abuse of discretion. It seems the city wants to pass the puck to the Toll Authority and pretend from its angle it did nothing wrong.

No city supporter has come forward and stated Sergeant Greg Bell would have done everything exactly the same if it was the daughter of Council Man Grant Wehrli that did the same. This challenge was offered dozens of times to City Supporters but it was ignored. They obviously all know Mr. Wehrli would not be treated the same ad the Napergate Man is an identical or similar situation. Thus they need to focus on the wrongful license suspension of the Toll Authority.

It reminds me of when all those verdicts came out in the high courts against the City of Naperville, they decided to blame the whole mess on former Mayor Samuel Macrane since he was already dead. They just passed the puck to the coffin of Macrane and pretended the Chief of Police had nothing to do with this Kangaroo Trial. It was all Macrane's fault and the city cries were we had nothing to do with it. About a dozen City Officials and Police participated in the Kangaroo Trial. To the best of my knowledge former Mayor Macrane did not directly participate in the Kangaroo Trial. At least not directly, but indirectly he did. The 12 who participated are all alive and blaming the poor dead Mayor for everything that went wrong. No one dared blame him when he was alive. But when he died it was all his fault.

Former Mayor Macrane had no direct authority over Chief David Dial. He was not his boss and could not have forced him to do anything. Only the 9 Council Members through a joint majority decision can force the Chief to do anything. So if you want to believe Chief Dial had nothing to do with the trial, you have to then believe it was a CONSPIRACY BY 9 Council Members who had joint authority over him that must be held accountable for the Kangaroo Trial.

Anyway we can all see how this puck just keeps moving around after 10 years and no one has yet to be held accountable for those "obviously 12 false charges" as Ken stated on the Napergate Thread earlier today. One of the 12 false charges was actually not false but the Illinois Appellant Court ruled it was too petty to consider for any kind of punishment. I think a manager went to the bank to get coin change and the police who had him under obvious surveillance, jumped on the store and charged him for leaving the liquor store in the hands of a Bassett Trained Employee, who was most probably trained by the Naperville Police Dept. Common folks, does anyone see anything wrong with this heavy handedness!!! Thankfully, Dupage Judge Bonnie Wheaton and 3 Appellant Justices felt this behavior by the NPD was ruthless and uncalled for. And so did a Federal District Judge and a Federal Appellant Court.

But not RJ! He wants the book slammed as hard as it could be slammed on the Napergate Man not just then but now. He approves of jailing people for violations of $1.60 cents, they did not even know about! And then he wonder where all this talk of "*gasp* Fascism" as Joe refers to it originates from!

I think the Napergatians had a major victory on the blog site today. They had one of the 5 die hard city supporters admit that these charges of the mid nineties were "obviously false." That die hard city supporter was KEN!!! John Q. Public came around at least partially at an earlier juncture!

If city bloggers are not getting it, maybe it does pay for Napergatians to keep repeating themselves until they get it. While it is hard to convert any of the 5 die hard city supporters, I think the Napergatians have gained substantial support on the Sun Blogs with other Naperville Residents. I can see 10 new names or more just from the last 2 days.

I see a war of attrition on the city using this blog site that is succeeding slowly. I think the Napergatians will eventually use this blog site to win the next election. Unless of course, Moderator Jim or Host Ted, decides to pull the plug! ONLY TIME WILL REVEAL WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!

New names, but the writing style is the same every time. Classic...

David:

"But not RJ! He wants the book slammed as hard as it could be slammed on the Napergate Man not just then but now. He approves of jailing people for violations of $1.60 cents, they did not even know about! And then he wonder where all this talk of "*gasp* Fascism" as Joe refers to it originates from!"

He was jailed/held for the arrest process for driving with a suspended license. Whether it was because he had 9 DUI's, emissions or tollway violations as the cause for the suspension, they are irrelevant as far as NPD is concerned. According to the DMV his license was suspended and he was caught driving. End of story.

To hound about 'abuse of discretion' is also a moot point because if one other person was ever arrested for DWS, then the discretionary part shows that NGM was not singled out for being arrested while others are allowed to roam free and continue on with their day.

Read the police blotter more often. You will see many arrests for DWS in there. They happen all the time and people are arrested on the spot for it. There is no 'abuse of discretion' because the NGM was arrested just like everyone is in almost every case.

You seem upset that he was not given preferential treatment. He did not have a car full of kids that we know about. He had a dog ad a friend, Bob. Obviously Bob agreed to accept custody of the animal on scene so the animal was being 'cared for'. The process went on like it was supposed to and it got resolved. Done, over, everyone moved on except some angry bloggers with an axe to grind.

Any administration that allows a crackhouse to operate for 2-3 years until a home invasion and murder take place DESERVES to be voted out.

People of Naperville have the option of replacing the current administration in future elections.

All I'm hearing from the cops on this board are EXCUSES for their LACK of POLICING.

TIME FOR a CHANGE, PEOPLE!

P.S. to the moderator: Don't play the little Nazi by censoring my previous posts, you JERK!

Moderator Jim to Dieder: Be advised that after some careful consideration I decided to post your latest comment, despite the fact that you called me a "jerk." Try calling me a name again and you will be permanently banned from posting. And I'm not kidding.

By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on December 19, 2007 10:45 PM
"Many of Furstenau henchmen on this blog seem intent to disrupt it by continuing to lie, twist the truth, and psycho-babble through long rants about NaperGate, and other irrelevant or erroneous banter. More diversionary tactics to divert attention from the real issues, and make it difficult for others to express their views. You don't seem to know, or care to know about the facts. When you can't win an argument, you make absurd comments, or make up false accusations. Lines and lines of wasted blog space won't win an argument."

TO: All the Napergatians who continually spew venom on these blogs,

I posted this back in December 2007. I feel it is necessary to again respond to your continued disruption, and attempts to dominate these blogs to sell your twisted reality to the gullible. I need to revise my previous post to say the only facts you want to know are the ones that you can twist to fit in to your conspiracy theories, and fairy tales.

If moderator Jim continues to give you enough rope, the informed readers on these blogs will watch you hang yourselves. Again, you are giving the Napergate guy a bad name.

Moderator Jim:

While it may prove impossible, any chance you can get the people that post the Napergate info to post it on a separate blog heading?

If the NaperGate posters want to refer to the expanded facts on the other blog, and hyperlink to them to support their arguments fine.

While their passion is admirable, clogging the blogs with re-hashing the same info and circular hearsay makes it hard to get to their points as they relate to current topics. If someone wants to do a good comprehensive fact based write up of what they can document as the excesses of power in Naperville, post it on Wikipedia for comment. If there is a definable problem in Naperville, then free discussion of it is the first step towards a cure.

One example could be:
Dieing in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam or any other conflict gets your name on a small black stone or pavers. Making a lot of money as a developer and entrepreneur gets your name on a giant tax payer funded bell tower. What does this say about the Cities priorities?

If someone wants to do a comprehensive list of the Napergate facts and arguments, I for one would read them and hope that it would be the opening statement for the new blog section.

Of course I feel safe. It was obvious from the start of the news regarding the 87th St. situation that this was most likely not a random act of violence.

That being said, I would like to see a greater presence of Naperville Police randomly patroling in our area. I have lived in the Springbrook Crossing subdivision since September and just saw my first patrol car this weekend.

By Anonymous on April 7, 2008 12:24 PM
Moderator Jim:

While it may prove impossible, any chance you can get the people that post the Napergate info to post it on a separate blog heading?

If the NaperGate posters want to refer to the expanded facts on the other blog, and hyperlink to them to support their arguments fine.

____________________________________________________________________

Anonymous,
I just did exactly that before reading your post. I posted a very long post on the Napergate Thread since it had little relevance to this murder even though it was archived. No one is trying to take over this blog site. Many of the responses of the Napergatians such as Blogger Dave are a direct response to the lies presented by RJ on this specific thread that were EXPOSED by Dave. If RJ would have blogged on the Napergate Thread, Dave would have responded there. He has also written there when more appropriate...as recently as yesterday.

I think City Bloggers fail to understand that Napergatians have opinions that exceed commenting on their leader's arrest. Why do City Bloggers think they can put an Establishment twist on his unfortunate murder but Napergate Man followers can not put a Napergatian twist on this same unfortunate murder? I really think the Moderator needs to explain to City Supporters what freedom of expression means. He needs to post the First Amendment for them to read. They are basically asking the Moderator to Censor. The moderator does not want to CENSOR!.

Once Host Ted made it easier to find the Napergate Thread, more and more Napergatians are posting on it again despite the fact that it has been archived for weeks. Nearly 400 posts exist there of which half were put on after it was archived. This shows Napergatians are trying to post on relevant threads and not only on busier live threads where they would get more exposure!

On the other hand these 5 City Supporters can be found blogging everywhere including on the School Threads. How dare they complain about Napergatians who number in the hundreds and are only blogging on a few sites, while they literally blog everywhere day and night and try to control this blog site by pushing the Moderator and Host to see things their way instead of articulating good view points so they can be accepted by others. I guess one can reason since they can not get anyone to see their ILLOGICAL VIEWPOINTS, they have decided to pressure the moderator and host to turn against the Napergatians. It has not worked and it won't work, therefore they need to start learning how to ARTICULATE and OPINIONATE without attacking the MESSENGERS!!!

I think Napergatians only blog on sites when there is relevance. Most of their remarks are relevant. They feel the NPD should have prevented this murder and they are expressing their strong biased or unbiased views. I agree with them that this murder was totally preventable if the NPD had done its homework.

Sting operations should have been run on this house of drugs. Why were they not run? The Napergate Man who has no police training ran successful sting operations on his employees to make sure they did not allow the flow of booze to minors. Why can't the NPD run sting operations on these drug houses? They spent 5 years studying his Korbel Sting Operation! They should have learned how to run a STING OPERATION!

I got to have more cow bell, I got to have more Napergate.

Please, please can we talk more about Napergate?

I need more.

By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on April 7, 2008 12:10 PM
By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on December 19, 2007 10:45 PM
"Many of Furstenau henchmen on this blog seem intent to disrupt it by continuing to lie, twist the truth, and psycho-babble through long rants about NaperGate, and other irrelevant or erroneous banter.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SNT,
Speaking of psycho-babble you are a perfect example. I have never met Dick Furstenau or ever spoken to him. I am not one of his henchmen and I have never voted for him. But I will vote for him in the next election if he wins his LAWSUIT. I knew the Napergate Man personally for 10 years as I was once his neighbor in Olive Trees.

No one is lying or twisting the truth except the city and its supporters. In many long court battles 14 Appellate Judges sided with the Napergate Man. Only 1 sided with the City and its supporters and his opinion did not count as his 2 colleagues overruled him in the SPLIT VERDICT! I was very personally involved and know who was telling the truth and who was twisting. Plus all these courts after carefully reviewing the evidence determined it was the city who lied, twisted and psycho-babbled! Not the Napergate Man and the 3500 Naperville residents who signed his petition that was entered as an authenticated and notarized document in all the court proceedings and records! Those are the true and undisputed facts, Mr. SNT. Sorry to hurt your feelings with the TRUTH! Sorry to embarrass you by exposing your LIES!

That should really be a strong indication to you who tells the truth and who lies.

Your beloved leader pro-tem City Manager told a blatant lie and twisted the truth about the cost of the Napergate Trials on January 20, 2008 on page 4 of the Naperville Sun. He told 50,000 readers of the Naperville Sun that 5 years of Napergate Trials, 7 attorneys, and numerous support staff cost the city $5,000 to 10,000 dollars.

Host Ted called him out on this lie and twisting of the truth. Kudos to Host Ted! Hopefully one day Moderator Jim will join Host Ted and call him out on this INCREDIBLE LIE!!!

These are the facts, Southwest Naperville Taxpayer. Where are your facts that any Napergatian outright lied in this fashion? Give me one example instead of your despicable PSYCHO-BABBLE!

Randy,

While the 5 'city supporters' (as you call them) blog in other topic threads they at least stay on topic IN those threads.

For curiosity's sake, did the Napergate man have armed clerks willing to shoot at his sting customer while he running his sting operations? Would his attempts to get someone underage to purchase alcohol resulted in stray bullets or innocent bystanders getting injured or killed as a result of his actions against his employees?

There is a world of difference between a commercial underage alcohol sale and a drug bust/sale. One has lives on the line when you actually do the deed. The other does not. Guess which is which.

All the yuppies that think they are safe because they live in Naperville need to wake up. You have Aurora right next door which has shootings on a daily basis...you cant expect it to not get carried over into your town. I do think the NPD needs to focus on the "small stuff" a lot more and not just look for big cases.

By Joe on April 7, 2008 11:00 AM
New names, but the writing style is the same every time. Classic

___________________________________________________________________

Joe,

I am an English teacher. I noticed that the Napergatians tend to write using proper sentences, paragraphs, grammar and punctuations. We try to teach that in the school system.

It seems to me the Napergatians are thinkers. That could be a reason they are against City Hall. You see them commending the police department when it does right and condemning them when they do wrong. That is why they continue to gain credibility.

Even if Randy may have a similar style as another Napergatian that does not make him that person. I happen to know Randy very well and even taught one of his daughters one year. I can assure you he is a real person.

All my good students have similarities in writing styles if they try to practice proper writing skills. Most articles in the Naperville Sun have similar writing styles. Does that make all the reporters of the Naperville Sun the same person using different names?

English Teacher,

Do you teach them to use 67 separators, be they _, +, - or *'s

Do you also teach them the same PS style and teach them terms like 'Host Ted' and 'Moderator Jim' and teach them how to repeat the same things over and over especially in topic threads that have nothing to do with Napergate in the first place?

Do they use a set 'form' when posting?

I asked for the template months ago because it seems that many 'people' on here have the exact same layout/form/verbiage repetitively.

I think everyone in Naperville should strongly consider moving at least one town to the east so that you can all get away from the hordes of drug crazed killers in Aurora just waiting to get you.

Of course, if you do that, you do move closer to other places I am sure you also consider to be less desirable (read full of lower class) people than in Naperville.

I think there are some very nice communities in Utah or Wyoming that are probably more appropriate to your way of thinking - of course they have lots of guns there too.

By Joe on April 7, 2008 2:26 PM
Randy,

While the 5 'city supporters' (as you call them) blog in other topic threads they at least stay on topic IN those threads.

Joe,
For the most part from my observations the Napergatians do stay on topic. On this thread they are discussing the murder. But if one of the city supporters attacks the Napergate Man, they simply Bite Back just like he did.

They do push their agenda as it relates to the topic. You are also pushing your agenda as it relates to the topic. You are taking every scenario and stating the city can do no wrong. They are taking every scenario and saying the city sometimes does wrong.

Napergatians are on this thread stating the murder should have been prevented and Chief David Dial failed us.

Can anyone tell me how this in not on topic? It is very much on topic. What I see is the City Supporters terrified of the Napergatians because they are factual and articulate. I see them threatened of the Napergatians because as long as they have exposure they can win any election with or possibly without the Napergate Man.

Thus the city supporters are trying everything in the world to hush the Napergatians up but are failing as anyone can see through them.

The Napergatians provide hard core facts and truth that we can verify. City Supporters are beating their old drums with old propaganda.

Once the Naperville Sun turns on the establishment, the establishment is FINISHED!

Of course if the Napergate Man came back and continued his series of Napergate ads, he would discover the establishment is ripe to be FINISHED!

One way or another we are seeing it in its final days and almost FINISHED!

PS. Sorry if my style mimics others but I do like some of the styles I see here and I did try to imitate one with my own words of course.

Joe,

I see many different styles from the Napergatians. I see some write very long letters. I see some write very short letters. I see some use caps a lot. I see some rarely use caps. I see some use numbered points to write. I see some use quotes to quote. I see other put quotes between lines. Etc. etc. etc.

As many have said before, you can not indent on this site for a beginning of a paragraph. Why do you need the templates from the Naperville Sun? Just try it and you will see you are not allowed to indent. That would also contribute to similar styles.

When you have 300 plus Napergatian bloggers, do you expect each one to have a different style of writing. I don't think there are 300 styles of writing in existence that are proper.

Do you expect one of the Napergatians to adopt the style of that d. bone cartoon character and stop capitalizing and begin reciting nutty slang? We really don't want to be known for being nutty!

It appears most Napergatians are normal people who write like normal people. I don't see what is so hard to grasp!

PS. Just for the record, I once did blog from a Dunkin Donuts Shop with Virginia. Host Ted was right! But I don't see what all the fuss was about! We intend to do it again some time. Would the Host/Moderator prefer that we warn them before we engage in such "unlawful" practices. If the Host/Moderator ever have a problem with my blogs or any suspicians please feel free to contact me. You have my correct e-mail address and have had it from DAY ONE! It has never changed!

'Bruce',

If you've actually read everything I have ever posted you would find many a times where I have spelled out times where I believe the police have done wrong. If you missed them or simply want to ignore them to push a straw-man argument to the contrary, that's your prerogative. People who pay attention on here know otherwise.

3rd post in starts the Napergate tangent when others expressed sympathy to the family.

By Sarah:

"It just proves that Napergatians and DF are right when they say too much police power and overtime is being wasted in the downtown area."
...
"And as mentioned recently by Napergatians, why are all these cops sitting as potted plants in the courtrooms instead of patrolling the streets while being paid overtime. If a prosecutor calls them while they are on duty, I am sure they can be in the Wheaton Courthouse in 10-15 minutes as they tend to speed anyway even during non-emergency driving!"

These potted plants made multiple arrests for this case in what? 24 or 36 hours?

Randy,

Please re-read my post, and see if anything you say in your response has anything to do with my comments. While you are re-reading, see if my comments are directed at you or the Napergate man in regard to the Napergate trials. NOT!!!!!!!

Isn't your response to my post a twist of the truth in itself?

As the expression goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".

Joe,

I enjoy reading more than writing since I do not want to repeat what most Napergatians are saying. If all of us wrote every day we could and would clutter any thread. Many of us refrain from writing unnecessarily and do not write for the sake of writing just to get a JOE SIZE RISE.

And many of us do not write in order not to repeat each other but limit ourselves to reading the blogs daily! We have the luxury of not having to write every day because there are so many of us. Unfortunately, since there are so few of you guys you need to write every hour to counterbalance us.

But your new accusations implying we are not real people, all the same person or a few people is once again offensive. I am sure my style was similar to many other Napergatians and Napervillians.

I have corresponded with Mr. Jim Lynch on at least one occasion about a letter I wrote that was borderline libelous. He knows I am a real person. Was I trying to imitate other Napergatians with my borderline libelous letter? How would I know? No libel letters are allowed to be posted on Sun Blogs!

I guess Moderator Jim insisted I clean up my letter. I cleaned it up to conform. I am sure it looked like other letters after I cleaned it up to CONFORM! Before I cleaned it up, I am sure Moderator Jim would agree it was unique and different than any other letter as few letters by Napergatians are rejected and full of potential libel like mine may have been!

I just wanted to come on for a moment to tell the bloggers, Joe is barking again and to just ignore him. He usually stops barking soon...most dogs do stop barking also if you ignore them!

PS. Just for the record I use spell check before I post. Thus I would have great spelling abilities like anyone else who uses spell check. Thus more similarities from lack of spelling mistakes. Joe can blame technology for some of the similarties especially the fact that we are all now SPELLING BEES!

PSS. I just read Debbie's post and I agree with her that this site does not let you indent...this only results in more similarities unless you want to switch your style to d. bones...no thank you!

Posted by Randy on April 7, 2008 1:59 PM

"Where are your facts that any Napergatian outright lied in this fashion?"

"No one is lying or twisting the truth except the city and its supporters."

Randy,
I didn't have to look far to answer your question. Your statement quoted above is a lie. LOL. Please re-read these blogs and you will find example after example of lies by people other than the city and its' supporters.

(English Teacher, I hope I used the apostrophe appropriately in that last sentence.)

By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on April 7, 2008 12:10 PM

TO: All the Napergatians who continually spew venom on these blogs,

I posted this back in December 2007. I feel it is necessary to again respond to your continued disruption, and attempts to dominate these blogs to sell your twisted reality to the gullible. I need to revise my previous post to say the only facts you want to know are the ones that you can twist to fit in to your conspiracy theories, and fairy tales.

If moderator Jim continues to give you enough rope, the informed readers on these blogs will watch you hang yourselves. Again, you are giving the Napergate guy a bad name.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

SNT,
I read your post and Randy's post. Part of your post is above. Randy responded very appropriately to you on this thread. He posted a long post on the Napergate Thread that had nothing to do with you or this thread. He is playing by the rules!

What twisted reality are Napergatians selling to the gullible as you state? We persuaded 14 of 15 high court Judges that we have the facts and the city officials and police twisted the facts and reality. They believed us and not the city! I say we, because I was one of the 3500 residents who signed that petition.

Moderator Jim has given all of us plenty of rope. You and your tribe, SNT, have hung yourselves with the rope given to you by the Moderator. All Randy did was remove the plate underneath you, and you hung yourself with the Moderator's rope and your own words as you fell into the gutter of lies!

Why don't you be a man and admit that City Manager Bob Marshall lied about the cost of the Napergate Trial. You just can't be a man. You are always a wimp hiding behind rhetoric.

Why don't you be a man like KEN and admit the City of Naperville brought false charges against the Napergate Man in the mid nineties? You obviously can't because you are a pussy cat afraid of Chief David Dial!

For all those who think there is no relevance, there is tons of relevance. Most Napergatians want the resignation of Chief David Dial since they believe his performance is sub par. We wanted his resignation before this sad and preventable murder. We have every right to get on this thread to ask our fellow Napervillians to join us in asking for the Chief's resignation since he failed us yet one more time.

SNT!!! You have to understand it is all related. Chief David Dial has never been held accountable for anything. We have to tie everything together from the past and present and build a case against him. He needs to take responsibility for all his failures and finally RESIGN! No one can make the mistakes he made and still deserve to be in office.

He is running this town like a DICTATOR who is accountable to no one but himself. He writes a column in the Naperville Sun in which he brags about himself and his police officers. I would rather see a column discussing his plan to rid us of drug dealers, drug houses and murderers in this town.

As Randy said on both threads today, where are the Sting Operations to put an end to this drug dealing in town. It is embarrassing when the Napergate Man knows how to run sting operations and our Police Chief does not know how to. It is embarrassing when our Police Chief has the Napergate Man under surveillance while running his sting operations and busting him for performing a LEGAL ACT. It is embarrassing that our police chief did not run the necessary sting operations to uproot the drug dealers in that DRUG HOUSE before we had this murder that could have easily been a murder of 3 or 5 instead of just one as Blogger Hess stated.

This latest attempt by City Supporters/Establishment Folks to limit Napergatians on what thread they can blog on and what they can say or not say on certain threads is a show of failure and weakness.. It shows they can not debate. It shows they have not facts. It shows they are all propaganda filled with hot air.

PS. As far as our conspiracy theories and fairly tales they have all been proven in courts of law to be true over and over again!!!

Thanks Sun for your blogs. Between the this blog and the 204 fight I will make sure to tell my realtor not to bother with Naperville. It's quite clear from your blogs it is a community of racist, selfish and elitist residents. One area I DO NOT want to raise my kids.

"By Anonymous on April 7, 2008 6:42 PM

Thanks Sun for your blogs. Between the this blog and the 204 fight I will make sure to tell my realtor not to bother with Naperville. It's quite clear from your blogs it is a community of racist, selfish and elitist residents. One area I DO NOT want to raise my kids."

Anonymous,

Naperville has been accused of being elitist for years, this is not new. It is however an over generalization.

What exactly in the posts do you find racist and selfish? Give some specifics.

Joe,
I had to step in today because I really think you are losin it.

Host Ted named himself Host Ted. Of course most bloggers will call him Host Ted. Moderator Jim named himself Moderator Jim. Of course most bloggers will call him Moderator Jim. It is respectful to call them that and I hope most people are trying to be respectful.

What a stupid comment to make to the school teacher? Don't you think everyone in the school is taught to say Mr. Smith and Ms. Smith. They are conforming as we are conforming.

Joe, what template do you want! You have been on here longer than anyone and blogged more than anyone and to mean to tell me you still don't know you can not indent on this blog site. Why do you need a template? Just try to indent and your indentation disappears! I thought we discussed that already, Joe!

Its seem many city supporters also have similar blogs. All very short and DISORIENTED with d. bone being the envy of all city supporters!

But seriously is this a distraction from the topic at hand, Joe?

Or is it just another attempt for you to get the kind of attention you need for a RISE? It seems like you have become so addicted and immune at the same time, it is taking more and more to give you the daily JOE SIZE RISE you can not live without.(plagiarized Mickie but I am not her)

But in the end this whole conversation you started Joe is nonsense. You know it is nonsense! You know better than anyone on this blog site about IPs that are assigned to each computer by the Internet Provider. You know better than anyone the Naperville Sun can identify users from their IP numbers. When they saw identical IP numbers once they hollered and screamed until it was learned a few Napergatians were bloggin together at Dunkin Donuts.

Do you think if Ted and Jim(I am now afraid to call them Host Ted or Moderator Jim for fear of being someone else) were seeing multiple fake persons using one IP number they would not call them out! I suspect they would call them out! So why are you worried about their domain? Let them take care of their business and try to do a better job of articulaton so you can increase your handful of supporters from 5 to 6.

My family has 3 computers at home that are connected by 2 Wire through a wireless system. They all have the same IP number. Only one IP number for 3 computers. Even if I restart my computer my IP number does not change. I tried it. Even if I hit the repair button, my IP number does not change. My IP number is assigned to my computers by my internet company. I can not change it! Only they can! I have no control over it!

So again as one blogger said, Joe, you are just barking and barking. I think people pick up from each other. Dieder Hess came up with the word fiefdom. Bloggers loved it and repeated it for 2 days. I think that is typical human behavior.

Let us face it, Joe! How many people can be totally original like the Napergate Man was in his ads. Every ad was so different you could not even tell it was the same person writing. How many people can be original and do things like sting operations. Almost none of us. I think I read he was the only one who came up with that idea when competing against 5000 contestants for the National Kylix Award.

Most of us in this world are not all that original. We do steal ideas from each other. We do steal words from each other! We do steal thoughts from each other. I think to a great extent it is done subconsciously!

If we were all as original as the Napergate Man, Elton John, Miss Illinois, Bill Gates, or Sam Walton, we would not be bloggin here. To a great extent all of us who are bloggin on this site are followers and not leaders. Some of us are followers with a semblance of a life. And some of us are followers with no semblance of a life. You fall in the latter category, Joe!

As I read in the last few days, the City Supporters can not articulate anything. Their entire focus is to bash the Napergatians who can articulate. Articulation will get you new supporters. The Napergatians get at least 5 new supporters per day. The City Supporters have been stuck on 5 for nearly a year now. No one is buying a thing they say. None of their arguments hold water.

I am beginning to ramble. But I just came on to say let Jim and Ted handle who is who. They have e-mail addresses and IP numbers. They know who is who! We don't have access to that information!

Do you think they are going to allow one person or a few people destroy the credibility of their site? Do you think they are afraid to lose Dieder Hess after giving the warning?

I think Dieder Hess is a good blogger. I hope he/she(sorry, never heard the name before) does not call Jim any names again. I think that is counter productive to what we are trying to accomplish. Every blogger counts just as every voter counts. So I would like to ask him/her to refrain from any further attacks on the Moderator.

What is funny is I don't even know if a fellow blogger is a female or male, but Joe may be thinking I am Dieder Hess. This is how far gone, Joe is! Sometimes I wonder if Joe is encountering an unfortunate early bout with Alzheimer's Disease!

I am not sure but I do want to wish Joe well!

The 175 posts in this blog certainly do not represent the majority of Naperville residents. This community is not as you quote "a community of racist, selfish and elitist residents". I am happy to be raising my kids here with some of the finest schools in the state.

Mickie,
Reasonable people who know the facts, and read these blogs will understand exactly what I mean. No debate required. You just proved my point.

Maryann,

I've been in the DD a lot and never see anyone on a computer in there. I keep hoping to see people lined up outside the door for a Napergate meeting.. no such luck. I order a donut and a cup of JOE and even ask where the Napergatians are and get back a blank stare. Maybe it's not the DD at Hobsen and Naper Blvd. I must have been mistaken. Where are these meetings because I want to see for myself the large number of supporters.

Please let us know where and when the next function is.

By Joe on April 7, 2008 3:00 PM
English Teacher,

Do you teach them to use 67 separators, be they _, +, - or *'s

====================================================================

Joe,
I was not sure what you were talking about but I figured it out. No, the English Teacher does not teach that. The template the Naperville Sun provides, limits you to 67 spaces. So when you are trying a line of such as:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

67 separators, be they _, +, - or *'s

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

it will stop you at 67 assuming you counted correctly. So everyone is stopped at 67 when drawing a line of any sort on the Sun template. You can't go above 67 because the template won't allow you unless you want a second line which I assume no one wants. If you are trying to do a separation, it also would be stupid to do a quarter or half separation. So most normal people draw a normal line and stop when they are forced to stop by the Sun template, Mr. Genius Joe!

I hope that helps a little. The English Teacher was right on, Joe!
I am glad most of us don't write like d. bone or you! One is nuts and the other one may be developing Alzheimer's at a very young or old age whichever it may be in your case as you remain in hiding unwilling to let anyone do a background check on you, while relentlessly investigating private citizens like the Napergate Man has become your latest hobby in life.

I hope you are feeling better today, Joe!

PS. I think you need to see a doctor quickly, Joe! Usually not being able to count is a sign of Alzheimer's setting in. I counted 68 not 67. That is when the template ends.

Moderator Jim to Maryann: Can you please tell me what your post - even remotely - has to do with the muder of 87th St.? As far as I can determine it talks abouty templates and the Napergate man. None of this stuff belongs on this thread. If you and your fellow Napergatians want to continue posting, confine your comments to the Napergate thread. I'm going to start deleting Napergate comments that are directed to other threads. They're confusing to the readers and make no sense to the normal person reading the thread. Keep it on the Napergate thread. That's my final word. And you shoud pass the word, too, to all Napergatian bloggers. Thanks.

Thank You Naperville Sun Editor...I agree 100%. This Napergate issue is out of control.

As I tried to get caught up on this thread, I have to admit I was disappointed to see the last couple of days were devoted to more Napergate-related sniping back and forth instead of commentary on the actual topic of the thread. Though it was nice to see that even Moderator Jim expressed an opinion on this situation; no doubt worrying that the Napergatian domination of all discussion will eventually lead to large-scale exits from the Potluck blogs.

But enough of that for now, as I don’t wish to accidentally help perpetuate this mess.

First to the fascism and fiefdom comments: I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about. All you have to do is look across the Pacific to a government that fights monks with bullets to see exactly what you’re insinuating about Naperville and the NPD. Criticism in one thing, but perspective is needed. You don't like how things are run here--vote.

To the actual topic of the thread: I have to agree with Mark’s April 6 @ 9:28 PM post in that this was a preventable tragedy. But preventable only by those involved. The police are here to serve and protect, but they cannot protect us from ourselves. Put yourself in a dangerous situation and there’s not a whole lot the police can do to help you. Have drugs and money and guns are sure to follow.

I think a person planning and dedicated to a crime will commit that crime and there’s nothing you or the NPD can do to stop it from happening absent some lucky break like an informant or the perpetrator getting jailed for an unrelated reason. It’s that plain and simple and is the same for petty theft, burglary, murder, or terrorism.

Ever wonder why cops stop people for such innocent reasons as a broken headlight or expired license plate? They don’t care about the revenue from the tickets and probably don’t care about the broken headlight. They want to see who you are, what you’re doing, and if you’re wanted for anything. The stop is a pretext for that type of check (and a legal one, too).

For those that would throw such hatred and condemnation on the very city and police force that serves and protects you, I would ask you to examine your perceived differences between the city that we are versus the city we wish we were. Next, how do we bridge the gap?

T.B.

quoting:
By Confused and Confounded on April 7, 2008 3:52 PM
I think everyone in Naperville should strongly consider moving at least one town to the east so that you can all get away from the hordes of drug crazed killers in Aurora just waiting to get you.

Of course, if you do that, you do move closer to other places I am sure you also consider to be less desirable (read full of lower class) people than in Naperville.

I think there are some very nice communities in Utah or Wyoming that are probably more appropriate to your way of thinking - of course they have lots of guns there too.

ha ha I totally agree! Run Now!!!

Maryann: You were warned and that's why your Napergatian comment was not posted on this thread. You're welcome to discuss all things Napergatian as long as you do it on the Napergate thread. No Napergatian comment submitted to a different thread will be posted. No ifs, ands or buts.

Moderator Jim to T.B: Good point. As Maryann has just learned the hard way, from henceforth any Napergatian-related comment will be posted ONLY on the Napergate thread...and on no other. They will simply be deleted.

Thankyou editors for finally putting a lid on the Napercultian spin on every single thread. It has really been over the top. Why is it that this very small group thinks they are so articulate and bright? There post have show just the opposite.

Thanks again for finally making this and future threads not napercult gate conspiracys.

Moderator,

Why wait, can you move ten verbose Napergate posts to the Napergate section each day?

If the authors feel that there is an important point that related to this story, they can re-post the important point.

Thanks

T.B. typed:

" ... Ever wonder why cops stop people for such innocent reasons as a broken headlight or expired license plate? They don’t care about the revenue from the tickets and probably don’t care about the broken headlight. They want to see who you are, what you’re doing, and if you’re wanted for anything. The stop is a pretext for that type of check (and a legal one, too). ..."

THAT is my beef !!! For over 2 years, a drug house was operating in Naperville, numerous complaints were called in, and the NPD was UNABLE or UNWILLING to put a stop to it.

You mean to tell me that for over 2 years, the NPD could not find a reason to stop any of the suppliers or clients for questioning or a search?

Ahhhhhhhh ...... Police work at its best !!!!!

Once again, Dieder, your naivete on what the police are allowed to do shows. Years ago, I had the bad luck to move next to a drug house. Almost the same situation as the kids were dealing without the parents knowledge, or the parents looked the other way, I was never quite sure. People called the police on them constantly, and I personally talked to the police. They told me what has pretty much been repeated over and over here. Without probable cause, they had no recourse. They said they could not put a car outside of the house all the time as that would be harassment. Basically, the same laws that protect the innocent from a police state also protect the criminals. I am not willing to give up my rights so druggies quit murdering each other.

Once again, if there were simple solutions to drug problems and the many murders that result from them, there would be no more drug problems.

Ken,

Your excuses are called a "cop out".

Police infiltrate, bust and dismantle drug operations all the time.
I bet any self respecting police department is laughing at the Sheehan incident.

Luckily, no innocent people were killed or hurt.

I'm waiting for the details to come out at the trials.
I think all the good Naperville residents will find those details VERY interesting.

I suggest the fine police chief keeps his resume updated.

KEN,
Turn in your badge and gun - you're FIRED!

Hess, werent you the guy who was going to tell us all who the cops were on the take? Well, I guess your not all that tough after all since you decided not to follow up with your statements that were removed. Theres a name for people like you. Its called a coward.

Have a nice day

To Dieder Hess,

You're the same person that complains about every tax increase in the city, doesn't understand how crime can occur in city of 148,000 people, wonders why more stuff isn't free and yet lives in one of the best areas in the country.

Just because someone makes a few complaints about a someone who might have delt drugs doesn't mean a police unit can jump all over it. Besides the drug deals are taking place inside the home.

It takes a significant amount of resources to execute those kind of operations. Blame is a survival mechanism. It's something we've become dependant on. So, naturally, we try to justify our actions when things don't tend to make sense.

To "Anonymous":

How would you know that my "statements were removed"?
Be so kind and quote my statement that was removed - were the initials "FBI" part ofmy removed statement?

And, how did you find that out?

and "Un-Gotz":

I've never complained about ANY tax increase.

Are you trying to link me with another "handle"?

Your logic is faulty and you write like a FOOL.

YOU'RE FIRED !!!!

My, Dieder, aren't you amusing. Clueless, but amusing. While you assume that the police don't have to follow the constitution while dealing with criminals, there is plenty of case law that makes your assumption moot.

If "your fired" is your best effort at refuting any of my points, you might as well turn off the laptop and start paying attention to your sixth grade teacher. Maybe you will actually learn something.

Dieder,

Good point, Ken. Many people in insulated environments here in Naperville tend to make those kind of assertions that are unconstituitional. Deal with alleged criminals with an iron fist but never infringe my rights since I'm a good person.

I still can't believe many people on this blog are blaming the Naperville Police Department for a murder that was supposed to be an armed robbery attempt, all happening in less than 2-3 minutes around midnight on a Tuesday in a private residence where some fishy activity has taken place in the past but none that would merit a search warrant or heavy police scrutiny.

Dieder -

In a perfect world, the NPD would have shut down the drug house as you state. However, we live in a world where police resources are stretched thin, criminals have rights, and not every crime can be stopped.

Of all the Naperville neighbors complaining about the “drug house” next store, how many of those complaints are valid? Some are, I agree. But some complaints are neighbors who don’t get along or neighbors who have kids (teens or 20-s) living next store and kids will be kids by being loud and having fun. That does not make them druggies, but dilutes the complaints the NPD receives.

T.B.

Its a joke to not know it was a drughouse.
people comign and going all day long.
come on, quit making excuses!

The NPD is not stretched thin, they pick what they want to do.

I love how your community really cares. I was blogging on the Aurora blog talking about serious issues, like 20 years of senseless murders and no one really blogs about the issues but out of emotion. Like maybe 5 people blogging. Here your community has one murder and people are moved. I wish my police force was as petty as yours. I would love to have your problems.

Do I feel safe? The Naperville PD wraped this up in 30 some hours so, you bet your bell bottom blues I do.

Kudos to the Naperville PD
Maybe this will show kids that there is nothing any good about drugs.

Joker -

By your definition of drug house, the cops should be raiding my house. People and kids coming and going all day. Different cars everywhere in the drive and street.

It's called having friends and a large family. It takes more than that to get a warrant.

T.B.

Sure, there are not a lot of murders in Naperville, but there sure are a whole bunch of "missing people" from this area who disappeared under mysterious circumstances...

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE SO QUICK AS TO PASS JUDGEMENT! ALL OF THOSE YOUNG MEN WERE FRIENDS-I KNEW EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM, THEY COME FROM GREAT FAMILIES THAT ARE SPIRITUALLY CULTURED AND FINANCIALLY BLESSED. SOMETHING TERRIBLE HAPPENED BUT IT WAS NOT ALL OF THERE FAULT.
WHY WOULD CHERROD MOORE AND COUIRTNEY MAYES CONTACT POLICE AND CALL PARAMEDICS AFTER ROSALES GOT SHOT: ROSALES LEFT THE HOUSE AFTER THE SHOOTING THE YOUNG MEN LEFT BEHIND DID NOT EVEN KNOW HE DIED.CHERROD YES HE WAS INVOLVED IN DOMESTIC BATTERY -WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT INVOKED HIM BUT HE HAS 4 KIDS AND THEIR MOTHER WHO COULD HAVE PROVOKED HIM. HE WORKED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS FAMILY. THAT MAN LOVED HIS CHILDREN AND THEIR MOTHER, HIS MOTHER SHELTERED HIM FROM THE OUTSIDE AWAY FROM THINGS MENTIONED ABOVED! HE WAS A TRUCK DRIVER.

I just needed to post this again.........

By Anonymous on April 4, 2008 1:07 PM
If we only focus on the result and think that this is the end, then we are in for a rude awakening.

So what they arrested 5 guys for pulling 1 trigger.

Its the typical way, charge everyone , appease the public and hopefully the charges will stick. We should follow this story to the end.

Didn't I just read earlier this week that the Aurora gymnastics coach got his conviction reversed. Yeah, not to big of a news story.

The Naperville police aren't fooling me. I want to see convictions of all 5. I guarantee you, you won't see that and it will be underreported.

and to Stinks. I hope you can afford to move into a gated community. Oops, hispanics and blacks are there too. With your opinions, I hope that adds value to your life, which will at some point come to an end 6 feet under like everyone else on this earth.

read in small print in the papers, NPD appeased the public, but will the charges stick????We'll see, if its reported.