In Sunday's Sun (4.20) we feature an informative piece about how the Naperville Police Department plans to cope with a City Council directive to cut overtime spending by 5 percent, to $3 million this year. The comprehensive investigation also looks at the amount of money officers rack up in OT.Though the dollar numbers look big, the annual percentage is actually lower than one of our neighboring municipalities that is comparable in size. We also look at the cops and how they can make money working various summer festivals etc. and where those dollars in police overtime actually come from. The answers may surprise you. A natural reaction might be to say, well, why not just hire more cops instead of paying stiff overtime? That question is answered, too. We're curious what you think - since it's your tax dollars at work - and whether you think the NPD can be successful in following the Council's mandate to cut overtime spending and maintain the quality of public safety Napervillians are accustomed to. Let us know right here.
Naperville has a $350 million-plus annual budget, and 76 percent of expenses are directly related to employee wages and benefits.
The Police Department spends more on overtime than the Fire and Public Works departments. Police Chief David Dial says the reasons for overtime costs are court appearances by officers, festivals (for which organizations pay the city to cover police costs), investigations of serious crimes, arrests occurring at ends of shifts, and position vacancies.
What do you think after reading the report?
I wholeheartedly endorse the approach of a visible and concentrated police presence in downtown Naperville during the summer months.
I love being able to take my family to eat at Naperville's wonderful restaurants, stroll the riverwalk and browse until late in the complete knowledge that not only will we be safe, but that we will feel safe and that the atmosphere will remain representative of what we love about Naperville.
As a Brit who has lived here for eight years, I can assure you that we do not want Naperville to become like many British towns have become: ghost towns from the early evening, turned into the domains of young hooligans who vandalise, fight, get drunk, swear and make town and city center life downright unpleasant, if not dangerous, for the people living and working there.
Naperville is a jewel. Lets keep it that way.
I think this is an excellent article that explains the unavoidable type of overtime police departments have. While most realize that police work is not a 9-5 type job, this article explains in detail why it is not. Anyone who claims that overtime is unavoidable on a police force has all the answers right in front of them.
It is also interesting to note that while the police get reimbursed for their special event overtime, that money does not go back to their budget. I wonder what the true overtime number would be if that money went back to the police budget instead of the city's general fund?
This article totally exposes the mismanagement of the Naperville Police Department (although the writer does not illustrate this fact). Some key points.
1. The starting salary of a Naperville policemen is $54,000. That is $10,000 more than a Chicago policeman. Think about it. Chicago has a higher cost of living (with a resdidency requirement) and they are REAL POLICEMEN (they actually fight crimes). How did the City of Naperville let these costs get so out of line?
2. Court time should be part of the base scheduling of a police officer, not overtime. The City could hire 20 extra policemen and SAVE $500,000 (based on the Sun numbers of $1.5 million in overtime).
3. Special DUI programs could finance policemen AT THEIR BASE SALARY, not on overtime. The special fines collected by the City belong to the CITY and its taxpayers, not the policemen.
Again, this article clearly illustrates the mismanagement of the the police department. Good thing the manager left, now Dial needs to go. They could manage the police department more effectively as Councilman Furstenau has been advocating and pay his settlement in the FIRST YEAR'S savings.
If someone can figure out how we can get bank robberies, car crashes, smash and grabs and DUI to run on an orderly schedule, I believe we can get the overtime under control.
Oh, I forgot, murders too.
What is the cost of repairing a body that is completely twisted in a car wreck? $3 million?
Conservative taxpayer, I don't think your point proves the police department is mismanaged. Your unattributed data about chicago pd salaries made me wonder, and what you said is misleading. Here's the REST of the story:
http://www.chicagopolice.org/recruitment/recruitment.html
Starting Salary of $43,104, increased to $55,723 after one
year and an additional increase to $58,896 after 18 months.
So Naperville salaries are comparable to Chicago.
If officers spent their shifts in court on straight time, more officers would have to be hired to protect the city. More personnel = more benefits, pension costs, health insurance, vacations etc = higher costs. It's cheaper to taxpayers to pay OT than hire more officers.
No one says fines go to PD, in fact the story says the fest orgnanizations pay the city for police OT and the money goes into general fund and is not counted as PD revenue. Because of the way it's accounted it makes the PD's expenses APPEAR higher than they are.
The Police Department spends more on overtime than the Fire and Public Works departments. Police Chief David Dial says the reasons for overtime costs are court appearances by officers, festivals (for which organizations pay the city to cover police costs), investigations of serious crimes, ARRESTS OCCURRING AT THE END OF SHIFTS, and position vacancies.
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Mr. Moderator,
I think this is relavant to what Police Chief Dial stated causes overtime. The arrest of the Napergate Man took place at the end of the downtown weekend shift. It took place at 2:15am and it involved 4 police officers. He had to be arrested, transported to the jail, and watched all night, after which he was booked and released.
This was an example of excessive unnessary additional costs since the Napergate Man offered to surrender himself over voluntarily but the police officers and Sergeant refused. Could an addtional motive besides the possible political motive been racking up overtime since we know no one is going to flee town or the country for a few dollars?
I hope you see the relevance here, Mr. Moderator, and allow posting.
The Chief of Police brought it up and I am only responding with an actual factual well known case and not speculation.
I am also not a Napergatian, but a first time poster!
Shale, that arrest time would be in the first half of a shift. Most police shift changes occur at 7am, 3pm, and 11pm. There would be no officers on overtime unless someone was covering a partial shift due to another officer not showing for their shift.
The only fact is that you don't have any.
Ah, "A Naperville police detective earned $45,900 in overtime pay last year". That's a joke right. That's a salary for probably 50 percent of Naperville residents. Is this Cook County?
Moderator Jim to Ken, Shale and all Napergatians: The purpose of the police overtime thread is to discuss exactly that. The Napergate man has nothing to do with it and I'm not going to let you guys hijack this thread into another Napergate one. Last warning - all future comments on police overtime that drag in the Napergate man will be deleted and the authors will risk banishment from this blog.
HERE IS WHAT BOTHERED ME ABOUT THE NAPERVILLE SUN ARTICLE WHICH WAS IN ESSENCE TO SOFTEN THE PERCEPTION OF THIS DISASTROUS POLICE OVERTIME:
1. Why state police overtime is .8% of the total City Budget? Why not say it is 9.34% of the Police Budget?
2. If a detective had to work 16 hours straight on a case, why not give him 8 hours off, once he licks his case instead of overtime pay.
3.If a patrol officer has to spend one day in court each week why not hire him to work 4 days on traffic, so his 5th day in court will be non-overtime. Not 5 days and a 6th day of overtime. Hire more cops! Common sense! We get more buck for our dollar if we don't have to pay overtime.
4.Rather than allow a senior detective to make $45,900 in overtime, why not use that money for a new officer to assist him which will get us 40 hours of work instead of 20 hours of overtime since this detective is probably already at a high pay scale thus his overtime will reflect his high pay scale.
5. I think the Sun should put in a call to the Chief Justice of Dupage County to make sure police officers have to be in court for hours upon hours. Why can't they be called in as they are needed? The trip can be made in 20 minutes to Dupage County. Let us verify what Joe Matchett, president of the Naperville Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge No. 42, is stating and not take his word as GOSPEL!
6. Since Naperville has a record number of DUI cases and heavy traffic violations why not set up a court in City Hall Chambers that is empty in the daytime. City of Naperville uses its own prosecutors and I am sure the Chief Judge would allow a Judge to come to Naperville as he does to Downers Grove. This would save massive overtime as policeman can be working and pop in when called in 5-7 minutes anywhere from Naperville to City Hall. It would lessen crime in town if they could be patrolling instead of sitting in court doing nothing since 95-99% of traffic violators plead guilty and ask for supervision whether a cop is there or not there.
7. Has a study ever been made to make sure the number of arrests made in the first hour of a police officer's shift equals the number made in his last hour. A police officer who really wants overtime could focus his energy on a DUI violator in his last hour to nail a few hours of overtime for booking and processing plus writing a lengthy police report. Why can't the police report be written the next day when the officer comes in at regular pay?
Chief Dial stated many arrests take place at the end of an officer's shift. If so, why are a disproportionate amount of arrests taking place at the end of an officer shift?
8.Comparing Naperville to Aurora is like comparing apples to oranges! Aurora has a huge gang and drug problem. Why did not the Naperville Sun compare us to Wheaton, Downers Grove, Lisle, or Plainfield and tell us how we compare. Did they compare us and not release the results to slant the article in favor of Chief Dial? I am sure they could easily have found a town with less overtime than Naperville but they chose not to. This is called biased and slanted reporting to protect a Chief who works as a columnist for the newspaper.
9. Why does Chief Dial feel he needs all these cops in downtown to protect against drunks but not in strip centers throughout Naperville that have bars, taverns and nightclubs. I know one shopping center that has a night club, a sports bar, a restaurant/bar and a liquor store. Guess how many police officers are stationed there. A BIG 0! Are the patrons of all these liquor establishments different than downtown patrons? Do they not drink like downtown patrons? Of course they do! Are they not a risk when they drive as downtown patrons? Of course they are risky! So why have 12 cops to watch over the 4 on Chicago Ave. and none on the NW shopping center.
Why not have 3 cops at each place if you are truly concerned about DRUNK PATRONS? The other 5 can be laid off since we certainly don't need them! As this example proves, 4 liquor establishments have functioned fine without any police for several years. They hire extra security. Downtown retailers may have to hire a few extra security personnel both inside and outside of their premises. Subsidizing the downtown in so many different was is totally out of control Check on other threads for other areas of abuse that were posted in the last few days.
10. Basically for the Chicago Ave 4 liquor establishments we need 12 cops according to Chief David Dial. But for this plaza in the NW part of town with 4 liquor establishments which are just as busy we need 0 cops. This shows how flawed the Chief's arguments are. It appears he is putting cops down there from the schools that are not needed there but needed to fight crime in subdivisions. It appears he may be possibly rewarding some cops he likes with OVERTIME! Again, if you need cops outside of bars, why does this NW shopping center with 4 liquor establishments open till 2am, not have a SINGLE COP stationed there. YES, NOT ONE POLICE OFFICER! WHY???
I challenge the Naperville Sun or the Naperville Police Dept. to give me a STRAIGHT ANSWERS to all MY NUMEROUS QUESTIONS!
Moderator Jim to Disgruntled: First of all, the fact that The Sun did this story, while having the police chief as a columnist, is a testament to the fact that we call things fair and square.
Knowing that this story would elicit criiticism of the police department, shows that nobody gets special treatment in our coverage of city issues just as I would expect, as an editor of The Sun, not to get any special treatment if I was pulled over by a Naperville cop for speeding or some other infraction. Also, some of your solutions are impractical. To name two: The law does not allow for a municipality to set up a special court at city hall...that's not the function of city hall or the governing body of Naperville. Also, would that court dockets go so smoothly that they could simply give a cop a call and say ok, be at court in 20 minutes. Courts and, indeed, the world do not work that way. Only the railroads run on time consistently, if they're lucky. Thanks.
Ken,
When police are working overtime they are not necessarily working the regular shifts you describe.
I suspect those weekend shifts are not regular time. I can not imagine they would bring officers in at 11pm and have them work till 7am to cover the bar rush time of 11pm to 2am. What are they suppose to do from 2am to 7pm when the bars are all closed? Pick their noses for 5 hours!
Ken, you act like you know everything, but all you do is guess half the time. Try doing some research and exercising some common sense.
You sound so much like the old Joe. I suspect you are the old Joe. Now Joe has two personalities. One bloggin as the old Joe a/k/a Ken and one bloggin as the New Joe a/k/a Joe!
I don't know if Disgruntled with Police Overtime has some particular problem with the Naperville police or not but the questions he poses are both insightful and well thought out. I hope that Chief Dial will respond to these questions either in his column or in this venue. The questions certainly appear relevant and reasonable.
To By Be Read,
Two simple points.
1. What do Naperville officers make after the same terms? We know they make $75,000 in 20 years.
2. Since the crime rate in Naperville is 5% of Chicago, why should they make the same money? The security guard at the Naperville Wal Mart makes substantially less than the security guard at the Chicago Wal Mart.
In fact, we should REQUIRE Naperville police to spend six months working in Chicago so they would appreciate their cushy jobs. In fact, Chicago policemen view suburban policemen as Barnie Fife. And in all of the blogs and articles, it seems they are right.
Dear Anonymous,
It appears from your comments that you are under the impression that police officers work a normal Monday-Friday 9a-5pm job. Police work and police departments like any public safety sector work on a 24 hours a day 7 days a week schedule. They work weekends and holidays. Some have a normal work shift of 11pm-7am at night. THIS IS their normal work day and not on overtime. I feel you would gain a better insight of police work if you sign up at the police department for one of their ride-a-long programs and see what happens at 2am when officers are working. I have done it many times in the past and is very interesting.
It was interesting to read the article in the Sun today about city spending for our police protection, and the need to pay police overtime.
I am a Naperville resident who likes to see the high visibility of police downtown. When I walk around downtown on crowded nights, it is reassuring to see police officers present on foot, and on bicycles. Let's remember Naperville is a college town, too. We have alot of college kids partying, along with alot of nightclubbers coming in from out of town to party with us. I agree with Chief Dial in the article when he states "I think the visibility of police in that area keeps things like drunk driving and fights to a minimum."
Comparing police presence at individual bars and liquor stores at strip malls by "Disgruntled with Police Overtime" is not an appropriate comparison to the need for police presence on the downtown streets teeming with people from within and without the bars.
I also found it interesting that all the overtime required for special events, like RibFest, is reimbursed by event organizers, but the reimbursement doesn't reduce the overtime figures because the money goes back in to the city's general fund. According to Doug Krieger in the article, the same goes for funds from DUI convictions that also go back into the city's general fund.
As the Sun article confirms, our police officers are required to be at the DuPage court, and are not there to be "potted plants" as some bloggers have previously stated.
It's also good to know some of our police officers are actually compensated well enough to LIVE in Naperville on their salaries with overtime. To put it in perspective, the link below shows median household incomes in Naperville. In my zip code, 60564, it shows the median household income is over $111,000.00 per year! If overtime is reduced, maybe cost-of-living raises will be in order.
http://www.coldwellbanker.com:80/servlet/Neighborhood?action=findByCommunity
There has been much misinformation by many bloggers on these threads regarding this topic, so hopefully this article will clear up much of the previous fabrication, and speculation by some.
By Disgruntled with Police Overtime
"8.Comparing Naperville to Aurora is like comparing apples to oranges! Aurora has a huge gang and drug problem. Why did not the Naperville Sun compare us to Wheaton, Downers Grove, Lisle, or Plainfield and tell us how we compare. Did they compare us and not release the results to slant the article in favor of Chief Dial? I am sure they could easily have found a town with less overtime than Naperville but they chose not to. This is called biased and slanted reporting to protect a Chief who works as a columnist for the newspaper"
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I can see why they used Aurora for comparison. Naperville has 142,000+ citizens, Aurora has 170,000+.
Using the population of your choices for comparison: Wheaton;54,611, Downers Grove;49,136, Lisle; 23,364, and Plainfield; 31,968, all 4 of them combined add up to be fairly close to the population of Naperville or Aurora. Actually Disgruntled, your comparison is apples to oranges, of course a town with 1/3 the population of Naperville will have a lower annual police budget.
I see the usual suspects have arrived with their special calculators in hand, ready to twist facts and come up with special statistical analysis to show us how awful the NPD is.
Anonymous and Overtime, show me where my information is wrong. I have had acquaintances with many local police and fire department personal from Naperville, surrounding towns, county police, state police and the FBI. I have gotten a pretty good view of police work from talking to these people.
By the way, I couldn't care less who someone with your lack of insight thinks I may or may not be.
9. Why does Chief Dial feel he needs all these cops in downtown to protect against drunks but not in strip centers throughout Naperville that have bars, taverns and nightclubs. I know one shopping center that has a night club, a sports bar, a restaurant/bar and a liquor store. Guess how many police officers are stationed there. A BIG 0! Are the patrons of all these liquor establishments different than downtown patrons? Do they not drink like downtown patrons? Of course they do! Are they not a risk when they drive as downtown patrons? Of course they are risky! So why have 12 cops to watch over the 4 on Chicago Ave. and none on the 4 at the NW shopping center.
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This is copied from Disgruntled with Police Overtime. Disgruntled was very insightful as Uncle Buckeye stated.
I am familiar with this shopping center and it is hopping just like Chicago Ave. It is in Naperville...not unincorporated Naperville.
It seems to have 4 liquor establishments occupying 20-25,000 square feet of retail a space. It even borders Aurora which has tons of gangbangers. Not one police officer or police car is stationed there on weekends.
If Moderator Jim wants to criticize Disgruntled on a weak point he may have addressed, why does he not address this serious issue he or she brings up in #9.
Either you need police officers outside of bars or you don't need police officers outside of bars. In this shopping center bar patrons walk from one bar to another bar just like patrons walk from Jimmy's to Features. What is the difference! The weather is the same in both places! The alcohol sold there is the same as the alcohol sold in downtown! So why such a discrepancy in police officer with Chicago Ave. justifying 12 and the NW Plaza justifying 0 police.
But it appears very peaceful without police. The tenants there have taken on the responsibility of security. Why can't the downtown business take on the responsibility of security instead of forcing the taxpayers to provide their security. Police officers should be driving downtown but should not be stationed outside of the doors of these places. Since they have bouncers and doormen with cell phones, they know how to dial 911 if someone gets out of control that they can not handle which really is a rare event downtown.
Chief Dial can say his 12 police officers are preventing trouble on Chicago Ave. Who is preventing trouble in this Naperville NW shopping center with 4 liquor establishments across the street from gang infested Aurora? GHOSTS!!!
RJ,
Comparing Naperville with Aurora is apples and oranges as Disgruntled indicated.
Downers Grove is an excellent comparison. Just multiply or divide by 3 to equalize the populations and compare the numbers.
Chief Dial blamed some over time on the isolated murder we had. How many countless murders and shootings does Aurora have...many many times that of Naperville. Based on Chief Dials statements, their overtime is justified.
I believe I was once ticketed and went to a field house court in the Downers Grove Municipal building.
I believe the Moderator is wrong when he says you can not have a field house court in Naperville. How did Downers Grove get theirs?
We need one much worse than Downers Grove. It would save both residents and police much time.
To Naperville Sun Editors,
Sorry you got your facts wrong. There is nothing in the law to prevent a municipality from setting up a special court in city hall. Actually this has been done and it has been done a couple of different ways. There are cities downstate that have done this when they are a long distance from the county seat for similar reasons... all the time it took the officers just to drive to court. In other cases some cities have had to create an entire set of municipal ordinances similar to all of the state motor vehicle statute to then charge and try offenders in their municipal court, but it can be done. And Chicago isn't the only example of this.
On the other hand just because Naperville is using the existing court structure doesn't give the county the right to waste our money. If the county board and the judges are not managing our court system effectively and efficiently so as not to be wasting millions of dollars of taxpayers dollars on nothing more than police officers sitting around waiting then for crying out loud report on that and let's get some pressure on Shillerstrom to clean things up and if he doesn't hold him accountable.
Other local towns don't seem to have their officers sitting on their duff half the day like Naperville in court. Why didn't the Naperville Sun investigate how these other towns are better able to manage their payroll expenses? Since we have union police force are we really dealing with "call out" pay? Has the city council negotiated a deal where any time officers have to appear in court and it isn't their "regular" work shift that they consider it call out pay and the officers get paid for 4 hours of work regardless of how long it actually takes to appear in court.
The informative articles are nice. Why is it that the Naperville Sun never seems to dig very far beneath the surface? Does the Naperville Sun not know what to look for, where to look? On most of the issues reported in the Naperville Sun there are always a lot of unanswered questions... why is that?
It always amazes me how some people will complain that these officers and firemen who are willing to protect us, even give up their life for us, are paid too much! How much is their life worth to protect yours or mine? When it is your spouse or child who has been killed by a drunk driver perhaps you will think differently. Same happens for paying teachers. People will complain our society is declining and thus we need more officers to protect us, but will not value the ones who can make a difference in a child's development so they will not develop into criminals. There is no amount of money that can even come close to the value they are to society!
Disgruntled...your lack of critical thinking makes me wonder if we may need to be protected from you. I'd like to see how many officers would be left working on any given day once you have all those who worked 16 hrs straight take 8 hours off. Try scheduling that! Anyone can figure that out! And only 8 hours off...how much sleep are you giving them. Lets see...they have worked 16 or more hours but they only get 8 hours off...and then where is their travel time, time to eat, enjoy their family etc. And perhaps you have never heard 'you get what you pay for?' While I do not mean to demean new officers here, I'd love to have you be the person who needs the experienced officer one day and instead have a new officer. I can see you complaining about the new officer then. And yes, lets bog down the court system even more waiting 20 minutes for each of these officers to be called in. Heck, even 6-7 minutes. Nothing will get done. Heck, I wouldn't like waiting in court either, let them beep me when they need me. Oh & when they are in the middle of helping you out of your car a drunk hit, they can just say "oh sorry...gotta go to court!" when they are beeped. How long did you actually think about this? You might have critically thought of putting money into attempting to reduce the DUIs in the first place so officers will not be needed for this problem. I'm sure the officers would love to have less DUI calls. DUIs in the last hour...are you suggesting that they should let ANY DUI go in the "last hour"? I tell you what...you drive near the one they say "Oh sorry can't stop that one...gotta clock out!" If you think there are just as many in the first hour then suggest they should do more in that first hour but don't suggest they shouldn't stop any DUI in the last hour they actually find.
Certainly, one can look for areas of improvement where one can save money without cutting corners which may jeopardize the safety of my family. Why doesn't the town also look for ways to come up with new money to cover the overtime. Thank the officers by saying we value you protecting us & giving up your family time for us. Write the politicians who actually critically think even less & want to suggest we get rid of overtime. The biggest problem is the politicans can't some how figure out how they can get paid overtime themselves. If they were getting overtime you better believe it would not be touched!
Naperville has just grown incredibly since I first visited family there as a kid some 40+ yrs now. Many of my family have move in town or near there. I'm grateful to see officers protecting me when I take my niece to see The Wizard of Oz in the Park or walk with her downtown in the evening with all the magestic lights. Value your brave men & women, do not take them nor your life for granted! You are very lucky to live in such a wonderful community, many would love to have "your problem!"
It seems to me that the City Council is playing a bit of a twisted and possibly slightly sick game with the accounting.
If the article is correct they look at salary and overtime in one column and then ignore the overtime that was paid back by all of the groups and events. So why look at gross cost instead of net? The amount charged to these other groups should be a pass thru expense that doesn't affect the bottom line for the city.
The city council approved all of the police officer positions. With that comes benefits plus the possibility that there may be some overtime for appearing in court, etc. They also approved the work rules on how and who can get overtime.
A more in-depth look is in order. Business drill down these kinds of expenses to control their payroll cost. The city should not be any different. If Chief Dial can't manage the budget then he shouldn't be chief.
The City Council probably owes everyone in Naperville an explanation of how and why they arrived at the arbitrary amount of 5% reduction. Surely they can do better than that. From the way this article is written it sure sounds like there is a heck of a lot more fat there than just 5%.
With regards to the number of police officers downtown versus NW Shopping center...
Someone should pull a count of incidents between the two locations and see which one needs more police observations/presence.
If those stats show a need for more police presence at the NW establishments, then put them there.
Often times the type of patrons drive the probability of incidents and types of incidents that happen outside. Younger rowdier crowds tend to have more 'problems' than an older crowd. Raw number of patrons also play a part in the probability of incidents at a location.
Disgruntled and one of the many Anonymouses (to timid to post under any name):
The reason that the police can patrol the downtown area on foot is that it is public property. Malls are private property. If the police sit and wait for drunks on private property, it is called entrapment and the case will be kicked out of court. This happened to the NPD years ago, so they had to change their tactics. Foot patrols to keep the peace don't fall under the same laws as making the case for a DUI.
By One Who Does Value You! on April 21, 2008 1:02 AM
It always amazes me how some people will complain that these officers and firemen who are willing to protect us, even give up their life for us, are paid too much!
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You showed your utter stupidity with your post.
DISGRUNTLED did not complain about police. He complained about POLICE OVERTIME. His critical thinking is right on the money. Yours is in the gutter. A 1st grader has better critical thinking than you do!
How silly and dumb of you to say we need to be protected from DISGRUNTLED? His points are all excellent and no one has addressed them?
He was even right on the local field court house that can be set up to save enormous OT! Moderator Jim who is not a critical thinker blasted him for being right! The Moderator needs to apologize if he wants any credibility on his blog site. When you blog with Eric Zorn, he gets you answers! When you blog with the Moderator he brushes you off? Why! To protect and enrich the establishment at our expense!
He needs to get the answer that DISGRUNTLED is asking for from Chief Dial. These articles the Sun does are for public relations and consumption to enhance the image of the police dept. rather than crtique it towards improvement and less waste.
And DISGRUNTLED proved Chief David Dial is wasting our money for SHOW IN THE DOWNTOWN when he pointed an example of a NW Shopping Center that has 3 late bars/nightclubs/taverns and one liquor store all hoppin till 2am in the morning and bordering troubled Aurora.
These establishments need much more protection than the ones downtown. They are on the front line of Aurora which is the gang capital of Illinois as Naperville is the DUI capital of Illions(excluding Chicago in both cases).
When something goes wrong in that plaza, Chief Dial will be held accountable as he is being WARNED on this BLOG SITE right NOW!!!
Moderator Jim,
Any chance the Sun can us a list of the sources of overtime dollars and percents.
Also, any chance the SUN can get the amounts that are offset by the special even re-reimbursements? This would give us the net amount of overtime that can then be identified by category, lets size the problem first.
It would also be useful to get the entire police budget number and divide it by the number of officers that actually work crimes including traffic tickets, this would give us the total cost per officer. Probably something like $150-300K per year fully loaded with everything.
There is no doubt that the downtown is sucking up more resources including police. The question is who is paying the cost for the additional resources that the downtown requires to maintain order. Is this another subsidy for the Downtown which is a net negative on taxes already.
What the "fully loaded costs" will tell us is how much it costs everyone when the downtown sucks up two more officers, @ $300K each? Who is paying for it, the bars?
If you spend a much time Downtown it is obvious that the police are needed; the question is "who is paying the check"?
If the City Manager was doing an effective job of managing the city budget he would have upper and lower control limits for every line item.
If he and the finance department don't then they are not doing a very effective job of managing our money.
Line items that exceed either the upper or lower control limits mean that the budgeting process needs to be tuned better. Trend lines and other forms of financial analysis should be in use to control expenses before they get out of hand.
Overtime pay should not be a bottomless pit that the officers and chief of police can use without accountability. Overtime can be capped. Compensatory time off can be given. Rotating shifts to avoid overtime can also be used effectively. If the City Council is concerned about how much is being spent on overtime pay I do have to question why only a 5% reduction? How about a 50% reduction instead?
Naperville residents should be able to sleep at night knowing that their police force is well rested and fit for duty. If we have officers who are working all kinds of overtime I for one would we concerned about their fitness for duty in terms of sleep deprivation, stress, decision making ability, and longer term consequences like job burn out. Allowing police officers to work too much overtime has other consequences beyond just the financial cost to the taxpayers.
Based on the information provided by the Sun it is hard to tell if the city payroll is being managed professionally or if it is being abused. Naperville residents need to know more about how and why our money is being spent.
Critical Thinking...
Perhaps I should add you...look at the first comment you pasted of mine...
"ARE PAID TOO MUCH" is the ending I said! I did not say he complained about Police period I said "that they are paid too much!" per the overtime issue!
To wait even 6-7 minutes for officers to come in is just ridiculous! And I believe Ken already made the point of private vs public property & someone else on need based. You nor the original posted critically thought to include those points.
Anonymous does bring up an excellent point I mentioned on why just 8 hours off when sleep is obviously.
Anonymous and Downtown wrote:
"What the 'fully loaded costs' will tell us is how much it costs everyone when the downtown sucks up two more officers, @ $300K each? Who is paying for it, the bars?"
Your $300K figure may or may not be correct as the figure for total cost per crime-working officer, but it does not follow that each officer assigned downtown costs the city $300K, as this figure would include overhead costs that do not necessarily increase with each additional officer.
Joe,
Visit the NW shopping center at night. One of the places there draws all kinds of young customers that wear that loose clothing that may be stuffed with weapons and drugs.
Another one has a young audience watching Ultimate Fighting on satellite TV every night getting all psyched up!
A third one has a middle aged blue collar crowd having a shot with each beer knowing they can safely drive home each night INTOXICATED since all the police are on Chicago Ave checking out the pretty high-heeled ladies and opening cab doors for them.
Not one single cop stationed to watch 4 liquor establishments in ONE NW Shopping Center! Trying not to name in order not to break the numerous rules of the Moderator which are approaching ridiculousness!
How in the hell can you have 12 cops monitoring 4 establishments on Chicago Ave and not one single cop monitioring a very busy NW Shopping Center with 4 liquor estbalishments with nearly a 1000 patrons on weekend nights.
Joe, once again you showed your utter stupidily on these blog sites. The group that we are not suppose to mention sliced you and diced you into minced meat.
With or without that group we will continue to dice you and slice you and show how IGNORANT you are!
You and your shadow Ken are despicable human beings who do not possess any CRITICAL THINKING. All you idiots do is RUBBER STAMP the ESTABLISHMENT.
I think Chief Dial and the City Council should all resign over this OT issue. Give me a break...reduce OT by 5%...what a JOKE!!! LOL!
Let us get it as close to 0 as possible by hiring more cops who can be rested and perform better. Can you imagine that overworked police officer having to make a decision to shoot or not to shoot with those 46-49,000 dollars of OT draining him mentally??? What is there to be proud of our current Chief when he allows exhausted officers on the street with guns that could be fired in a moment of extreme exhaustion WRONGFULLY!
I hope the other Party wins the next election against the Establishment Party and fixes this CORRUPT and WASTEFUL TOWN!
To: Anonymous III on April 21, 2008 11:53 AM
Thank you for the lovely rant. Now please answer the incident metric question between the NW shopping center and downtown.
What were the rates per month last summer? Which area had a higher count of NEED for police intervention based on incident numbers?
All I want to say is that Joe really sounds crazy!
John Q,
Assuming the number of officers is static and taking the total budget divided by the number of people that produce product gives you a snap shot of the fully loaded cost per crime fighting officer. (overhead like me does not actually produce anything)
My understanding is that officers are being re-assigned to the downtown and away from other duties. So a static analysis is fair.
If we were adding incremental officers the loaded costs still increase although we not hire one police chief per new officer. Gun, car, pension, leave, sergeants, medical coverage do scale however.
Are most of the officers getting assigned to the downtown new hires? No.
Either way, the taxes generated from the downtown should cover the cost of the downtown.
One place the police department can save some money is in handling police reports. Why does releasing information about anything other than a routine traffic violation or minor offense require a complex approval process that can take days, if not weeks? Two recent examples from today's and yesterday's Sun: An altercation at Nova 8 which required a response of 11 officers and squad cars squad cars, potentially 300 people involved and it was not reported until April 20. It occurred on April 11. It's not news anymore. ( perhaps that's the point) Or the reward offered for solving a vandalism spree involving cars damaged by bb guns -- I think the odds of arrest were better on April 12, when it took place, than they are today, 9 days later.
Other crimes simply never get reported in the paper. ( More correctly, I don't see the articles in the paper.) In our neighborhood, we know they occur because people talk about them, they get reported in our newsletter, but the reports get "lost" in the press release process of our police department.
Do citizens benefit from the delays? How many people review the release before it is issued? Why?
By Anonymous on April 21, 2008 1:12 PM
All I want to say is that Joe really sounds crazy!
==================================================
Yes, need-based patrol assignments that use historical 'incident numbers' as a guide is completely crazy. You're absolutely right.
Really, they should put every neighborhood in 1 hat, and numbers 1-50 in another hat and each night draw one from the neighborhood hat and one from the number hat and that's how they should go out on the streets.
That makes MUCH more sense, right?
To A&D,
Fair enough. The number of officers may be static. Of course there is also the possibility that headcount has increased as a direct result of the need to police the downtown area. Another consideration is that the NPD does not have 12 officers downtown every night of the week all year long, so a better measurement would be man-years dedicated to policing the area. And I agree with you about the scaling of some overhead costs, though not all, which is why I said the costs "do not necessarily increase with each additional officer". Guns, pensions, leave and medical definitely increase with each additional officer; cars don't necessarily, and neither do sergeants.
From a post on the ******* (word not permitted) thread:
By Ken on March 19, 2008 4:17 PM
... Family and friends may be considered likely witnesses by you, but a court needs more substantial proof... Otherwise, it is hearsay evidence. ...
...Speaking of hearsay evidence, that is all you people seem to have. There have been no facts introduced in all of your wild speculations....
----------------------------------------------------------------
From this thread:
By Ken on April 20, 2008 8:53 PM
... show me where my information is wrong. I have had acquaintances with many local police and fire department personal from Naperville, surrounding towns, county police, state police and the FBI. I have gotten a pretty good view of police work from talking to these people.
By the way, I couldn't care less who someone with your lack of insight thinks I may or may not be.
--------------------------------------------------------------
So, Ken, have you now resorted to "hearsay." In your first post above you say that things said to someone by family or friends is only "hearsay" and thus unworthy of being introducted.
In the second post of yours above, you say that acquaintances have given you a pretty good view by talking with these people. Now, according to your first post above, that must also be "hearsay" and thus not relevant as well to the discussion.
Thus, you can not have it both ways. Either acknowledge views of others based on what they have been told or do not yourself discuss information based on what others have told you.
The NPD reported in 2006 that it had 296 employees of which 190 were police officers.
190 divided by 3 shifts... well let's divide by 5 since we have to plan for days off, vactation, sick, etc. and that means at any given time there should be at least 38 police officers on duty... probably more with all the overtime being doled out.
Naperville consists of 35 square miles of land so that means we should have at least one police officer for every square mile 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
If we have 12 officers downtown to deal with all of the problems generated by the merchants attracting the people causing these problems then which 12 square miles of Naperville are being under protected if all of these officers are downtown instead of out on their assigned beats? Seems to me the residents who are paying their property taxes are getting the short end of the stick in terms of police protection.
If the downtown businesses are causing so many problems then why are they not being charged for the extra service or required to hire their own security to address the issues they are causing.
Seems to me that it is illogical for a charitable, non-profit organization trying to do a fundraiser has to hire off-duty police officers at time and a half for event security and all the profit making establishments don't have to pay a dime. Maybe if they also had to pay police officers time and half they would clean up their act and police themselves to the extent downtown Naperville would not need such a ridiculous "police presence".
The following questions were posed to the SUN, and Chief Dial by a previous blogger. Although my responses were not requested, I have answered them for you. My answers are in bold print after your questions:
By Disgruntled with Police Overtime on April 20, 2008 6:00 PM
1. Why state police overtime is .8% of the total City Budget? Why not say it is 9.34% of the Police Budget? ANSWER: BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.
2. If a detective had to work 16 hours straight on a case, why not give him 8 hours off, once he licks his case instead of overtime pay. ANSWER: RIDICULOUS QUESTION BASED ON A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION.
3.If a patrol officer has to spend one day in court each week why not hire him to work 4 days on traffic, so his 5th day in court will be non-overtime. Not 5 days and a 6th day of overtime. Hire more cops! Common sense! We get more buck for our dollar if we don't have to pay overtime. ANSWER: THE NUMBER OF POLICE OFFICERS IS MANDATED BY CITY COUNCIL. CHIEF DIAL CAN'T EVEN HIRE REPLACEMENTS FOR OFFICERS LEAVING THE DEPARTMENT UNTIL THEY LEAVE. THIS WAS DISCUSSED AT THE LAST CITY COUNCIL MEETING, AND AS STATED IN THE SUN ARTICLE "SIX MORE OFFICERS ARE EXPECTED TO RETIRE OR LEAVE THE DEPARTMENT AT THE END OF THIS YEAR AND DIAL CANNOT MAKE NEW HIRES UNTIL THE OUTGOING OFFICERS' LAST DAY, ACCORDING TO THE CITY'S MUNICIPAL CODE, WHICH COULD BE OVERHAULED AT THE NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING." MORE OFFICERS WILL NOT NECESSARILY REDUCE OVERTIME, BECAUSE THEY WILL REQUIRE OVERTIME TOO, DUE TO THE NATURE OF THE JOB. I THINK MORE OFFICERS WOULD BE GREAT, THOUGH.
4.Rather than allow a senior detective to make $45,900 in overtime, why not use that money for a new officer to assist him which will get us 40 hours of work instead of 20 hours of overtime since this detective is probably already at a high pay scale thus his overtime will reflect his high pay scale. ANSWER: $45,900 WOULD NOT BEGIN TO COVER THE COST OF HIRING, TRAINING, SALARY, AND REQUIRED OVERTIME FOR A NEW INEXPERIENCED OFFICER, LET ALONE AN OFFICER WITH THE NECESSARY EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE TO DO THE JOB OF A SENIOR DETECTIVE.
5. I think the Sun should put in a call to the Chief Justice of Dupage County to make sure police officers have to be in court for hours upon hours. Why can't they be called in as they are needed? The trip can be made in 20 minutes to Dupage County. Let us verify what Joe Matchett, president of the Naperville Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge No. 42, is stating and not take his word as GOSPEL! ANSWER: I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THE PRESIDENT OF THE NFOP IS NOT CORRECT ON THIS. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY UNDERSTANDING THAT OFFICERS HAVE TO BE THERE WHEN YOUR CASE IS HEARD IN COURT. IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN IN DUPAGE TRAFFIC COURT, YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOUR CASE WILL BE CALLED, BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO BE THERE AT THE PRESCRIBED COURT TIME. IT IS ALSO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF THE OFFICER DOESN'T SHOW UP, CASES CAN BE DISMISSED. WHY DON'T YOU GIVE SOMEONE IN AUTHORITY AT THE COURTHOUSE A CALL TO FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF?
6. Since Naperville has a record number of DUI cases and heavy traffic violations why not set up a court in City Hall Chambers that is empty in the daytime. City of Naperville uses its own prosecutors and I am sure the Chief Judge would allow a Judge to come to Naperville as he does to Downers Grove. This would save massive overtime as policeman can be working and pop in when called in 5-7 minutes anywhere from Naperville to City Hall. It would lessen crime in town if they could be patrolling instead of sitting in court doing nothing since 95-99% of traffic violators plead guilty and ask for supervision whether a cop is there or not there. ANSWER: FALSE PREMISE THAT OFFICERS COULD JUST STOP OTHER POLICE DUTIES AND ACTIVITIES TO POP IN TO COURT WHEN CALLED IN 5-7 MINUTES. FOR ON THING, IT TAKES ABOUT 15 OR MORE MINUTES TO GET FROM THE SOUTHWEST END OF TOWN TO CITY HALL, PLUS TIME TO PARK, AND GO TO THE CHAMBERS. I FIND YOUR SUGGESTION IS IRRATIONAL.
7. Has a study ever been made to make sure the number of arrests made in the first hour of a police officer's shift equals the number made in his last hour. A police officer who really wants overtime could focus his energy on a DUI violator in his last hour to nail a few hours of overtime for booking and processing plus writing a lengthy police report. Why can't the police report be written the next day when the officer comes in at regular pay? ANSWER: I FIND THIS TO BE ANOTHER RIDICULOUS QUESTION. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE COPS FIND WAYS TO ARREST DUI VIOLATORS AT THE END OF THEIR SHIFTS, JUST TO GET OVERTIME? NOW YOU WANT TAXPAYER MONEY TO FINANCE A STUDY ON ARRESTS AT SHIFT CHANGES. GET REAL! LIKE MOST PEOPLE, I'M CONFIDENT POLICE OFFICERS LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING HOME TO THEIR SPOUSES, AND FAMILIES AT THE END OF A SHIFT, BUT IF DUTY CALLS, I HOPE WE CAN COUNT ON THEM TO PUT IN THE REQUIRED HOURS.
Chief Dial stated many arrests take place at the end of an officer's shift. If so, why are a disproportionate amount of arrests taking place at the end of an officer shift? ANSWER; WHO SAID THERE "ARE A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF ARRESTS... AT THE END OF AN OFFICER SHIFT?"? OH, YOU JUST DID. THAT'S JUST ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. YOU WILL NEED TO GO AHEAD AND PAY FOR THAT STUDY YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR LAST QUESTION BEFORE YOU CAN MAKE THAT KIND OF UNSUBSTANTIATED STATEMENT.
8.Comparing Naperville to Aurora is like comparing apples to oranges! Aurora has a huge gang and drug problem. Why did not the Naperville Sun compare us to Wheaton, Downers Grove, Lisle, or Plainfield and tell us how we compare. Did they compare us and not release the results to slant the article in favor of Chief Dial? I am sure they could easily have found a town with less overtime than Naperville but they chose not to. This is called biased and slanted reporting to protect a Chief who works as a columnist for the newspaper. ANSWER; YOUR ENTIRE QUESTION IS ACTUALLY A STATEMENT OF YOUR OWN CONSPIRATORIAL BELIEFS AGAINST, AND BIAS ABOUT THE NPD, CHIEF DIAL, AND THE NAPERVILLE SUN. MORE UNSUBSTANTIATED SPECULATION.
9. Why does Chief Dial feel he needs all these cops in downtown to protect against drunks but not in strip centers throughout Naperville that have bars, taverns and nightclubs. I know one shopping center that has a night club, a sports bar, a restaurant/bar and a liquor store. Guess how many police officers are stationed there. A BIG 0! Are the patrons of all these liquor establishments different than downtown patrons? Do they not drink like downtown patrons? Of course they do! Are they not a risk when they drive as downtown patrons? Of course they are risky! So why have 12 cops to watch over the 4 on Chicago Ave. and none on the NW shopping center. ANSWER: ANOTHER BLOGGER ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION ABOUT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THE FACT THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS IN DOWNTOWN NAPERVILLE ARE NOT JUST THERE FOR THE BAR CROWD, THEY ARE THERE TO PROTECT EVERYONE WHO GOES DOWNTOWN FOR WHATEVER REASONS. WHETHER IT'S FOR DINNER, STROLLING, SOCIALIZING, WALKING DOGS, WINDOW SHOPPING, ETC. THE POLICE ARE THERE TO KEEP THE PEACE, WHICH INCLUDES DISCOURAGING FIGHTS, DRUNKENESS, AND PROPERTY DAMAGE.
Why not have 3 cops at each place if you are truly concerned about DRUNK PATRONS? The other 5 can be laid off since we certainly don't need them! As this example proves, 4 liquor establishments have functioned fine without any police for several years. They hire extra security. Downtown retailers may have to hire a few extra security personnel both inside and outside of their premises. Subsidizing the downtown in so many different was is totally out of control Check on other threads for other areas of abuse that were posted in the last few days. ANSWER: SEE MY ANSWER TO THE PREVIOUS QUESTION. WE CERTAINLY NEED THEM.
10. Basically for the Chicago Ave 4 liquor establishments we need 12 cops according to Chief David Dial. But for this plaza in the NW part of town with 4 liquor establishments which are just as busy we need 0 cops. This shows how flawed the Chief's arguments are. It appears he is putting cops down there from the schools that are not needed there but needed to fight crime in subdivisions. It appears he may be possibly rewarding some cops he likes with OVERTIME! Again, if you need cops outside of bars, why does this NW shopping center with 4 liquor establishments open till 2am, not have a SINGLE COP stationed there. YES, NOT ONE POLICE OFFICER! WHY??? ANSWER: IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT POLICE ARE CALLED TO RESPOND TO PRIVATE PROPERTY COMPLAINTS. AGAIN, SEE MY ANSWER TO NUMBER 8.
I HOPE THIS WILL ANSWER YOUR INANE QUESTIONS.
"...since all the police are on Chicago Ave checking out the pretty high-heeled ladies and opening cab doors for them."
*******
Annonymous III...
Somehow I must be missing this...I haven't seen a one ever do this, despite even intoxicated women who are embarrassing themselves in front of them! I'm offended, is it just me they are not doing this for then? ;-)Oh & I forgot they are not men! They are robots! No, I'm not saying they can cross the line of integrity but don't expect them also not to be human. I'd actually really wonder about an officer more if he didn't notice. What else would he not be noticing. I believe IF this behavior were present which crossed the line, it would not justify changing the number of officers needed but be another issue of police integrity. Certainly, IF that behavior were there it should be dealt with. And what is wrong with an officer being kind and opening up a cab door for anyone in the first place for any reason if they are in the area? Helping someone in any way is wonderful much less for hopefully someone who is intoxicated and is either themselves choosing to use a cab or if an officer suggest they take a cab. Personally, I would be quite happy to see the officers get these drunk women (& men) in cabs in nonconfrontational ways to get them home! Are you stating you have data they do this unequally for men & women? Women who don't show a pretty leg do not get this type of kindness?
What critical thinking did you use when deciding to use global name calling, i.e. "despicable human being" and an "idiot", as a persuasion technique to get people to seriously listen to your concerns and aid in discussion of the issue? How is this helpful in society? How is it any different than what you are claiming is wrong with the opening of cab doors IF it were what you suggest for the wrong motives.
If you are going to suggest 0 overtime for officers then you better be willing to suggest it across the board for all jobs! I'm not sure you will have many others agree with you. Again, "Oops...sorry Sgt. can't get this paperwork completed because I have to clock out now."
On the issue of sleep deprivation, first you have to critically think to ask if the officers with the most overtime are the ones out on the street? You never thought about this first, so the shooting idea you pose may not even be appropriate. In addition, has anyone posed the question how overtime pay is earned? If this is a percentage of the base pay then what does this actually account for as far as # of hours of overtime he/she may have worked total & then how those hours were actually earned. Are we talking days the officer did a 12 hr shift & then added 8 more or 2 more on avg. All these specifics make a difference before one makes assumptions and generalizes.
Misinformation is being spewed on this thread.
Police can and do patrol shopping centers all the time.
Police stop people in shopping centers for many different reasons.
Following a drunk out of a bar in a private shopping center is no different than following a drunk from a bar downtown that is also in a building owned by a private landlord.
If the police feel more comfortable they could give him or her the DUI the minute he or she exits the plaza parking lot. But I believe they can give them a DUI if they are caught driving in the plaza parking lot which is for public use. There is no entrapment as Ken fabricates so eloquently in the hopes we will believe him.
The bottom line is that Chief David Dial has been exposoed as not being on the ball by devoting 12 police officers to 4 liquor establishments on Chicago Ave and providing no help to 4 liquor establishments in a NW Plaza. Again a misallocation of our money and police force to subsidize downtown! The NW Plaza borders gang infested Aurora and should be provided some help by the NPD.
Anyone who lives in Naperville knows police officers can patrol plazas as they please and they do. Who has not seen that!
Stop lying Ken on this thread and acting like you know anything. You know nothing and are borderline DUMB!
Thanks for exposing Ken for what he is, Mr. Rod Randall! A FOOL!!!
Ken is lucky that members of the group that we can't mention are not here ripping him apart as they ripped him apart on that other thread we can not mention by name. He escaped that thread to come here thinking only that unnamed group knows how to chew him apart and throw him up! He found out there is no where to hide if you are a LYING FOOL BORDERING ON A DUMB IDIOT!
Thank you!
Anonymous on April 21, 2008 5:53 PM---first, please stop the sophomoric name calling (my apologies to any sophomores who might be reading this). It does nothing to bolster your argument, and seriously degrades the level of debate on this board.
Also, this is the second time that someone has said that we have twelve officers protecting four establishments on Chicago Ave. I believe those twelve officers patrol the entirety of the downtown area, where there are considerably more than four businesses that serve alcohol.
I believe David Dial is handsome.
Moderator Jim
What happen here.
Any comparison with cities of equal size and demographics. How about anyone happy with the idea that our city has the resources to have such a quality police dept. Anyone thought of the added education and training our police officers have,or how quickly high profile crimes are solved. Has anyone given positive airtime to the idea that we as a city host venues that bring in tens of thousands of people along with the 140,000 that live here. For the analytical folks maybe a comparison of overtime vs benefits of adding more police officers. ANYTHING BUT THIS CRAPPY BICKERING! Give me some good news.
Who is in charge of this blog anway? I'm tired of all the conspiracy theories about the Naperville Police Department. Try living in Gary Indiana and tell me about bad policing.
Did you know that there is a roller disco right in downtown Naperville and no one knows it?
I mean a roller disco for heavens sake. I got rid of my skates in 1982.
Oh yeah, we were talking about police overtime. Anyway, they do their job. Live and let live. And we should probably raise taxes anyway to cover new expenses in this town. It's time you tight-wads live a little.
Try rollerskating.
It does not appear that anybody on this post is a cop-I am-not in Naperville though in another large suburb with a much higher crime rate.
I am in a quasi tac unit that more or less gets to do whatever we want too-as long as we make a high number of gang/drug arrests compared to patrol-Pretty Cool.
This is how it works....
I make about $75,000 base salary + $3000 paid vacation (We dont get any holidays off)
OT rate is about $54 per hour based on time and a half. Last year I made about $95k and took about 4wks worth of comp time(Extra vacation) in lieu of OT pay.
Here is my schedule for last week
Sunday = Off
Monday = Off -had scheduled court 8am and 1pm (6hrs OT @ $50 per hour)
Tuesday= Work 6pm-2am (30min OT-late arrest)
Wednesday= Court 12pm-3pm (3hrs OT), Anti Gang Detail 3pm-6pm (3hrs OT), Work 6pm-2am
Thursday=Work 6pm-2am
Friday=Work 6pm-2am then mandatory holdover due to usual weekend BS until 5am (3hrs OT)
Saturday= Work 6pm-2am mandatory holdover until 430am (2.5hrs OT)
Fact of the matter is that I am not going to go to court unless I get paid for my contractual 3hrs each court call. I have better things to do then do that on my own time-Cops have families too.
I make lots of arrests and don't ever expect me to do late paperwork unless I get paid. Would you?
We get heldover when midnight shift is busy. If midnights is busy that means they cannot handle their calls. If you are OK with people getting beat/assaulted/robbed/shot since you dont want to pay overtime I guess you are an idiot. I don't particularly enjoy all the OT, however it is necessary. You cant be cheap with peoples lives. I would love to hire 40 more police for my city-wont happen since it is cheaper to pay OT then hire new officers-per the city.
If you have questions ill be happy to answer them.
"Sorry Mame...I can't come to help I have to clock out!" (Though we know not one officer who does what they do from their heart would even think of saying this btw!)
All in a day's work...
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/cop-battles-snake-to-save-store-owner/20080421101709990001?icid=100214839x1200472226x1200017609
Video link to watch also!
Rod Randall, nice try but no cigar. I did not claim my opinion as fact, saying what most department's shifts usually are, not what they definitely are. But since you questioned me, I will post the facts and admit I was wrong on shift times...by one hour. I was still right on the fact that a 2:15am arrest would not normally require overtime. Here are the facts, obtained from an add put out by the Naperville police:
The City of Naperville’s Police Department seeks an individual to supervise the activities of the Police Records Unit and ensure efficient workflow on one 8-hour shift of it’s current 24-hour operation. (Day shift is currently 8:00 am - 4:00 pm, Afternoon shift is currently 4:00 pm – 12:00 midnight, and Night shift is currently midnight – 8:00 am. While the assigned shift cannot be specified at this juncture, it’s days of work will be primarily Monday – Friday, and will include working holiday shifts. Occasional weekend hours).
Rod, I was not claiming hearsay as fact that would stand up in court as the people I was addressing were doing. I guess if you didn't lack a basic ability of reading comprehension you may have realized the difference.
Anonymouse 5:53pm, I wonder why you are libeling me? If you are going to accuse me of lying, you should have proof. Since the case I am familiar with happened over 20 years ago, and the attorney involved has died, I can't prove this as factual. However, common sense would tell you that if the police could arrest for DUI's right in a bar's parking lot, they would set up their DUI check points right in the lot.
I have never seen police patrol a parking lot without permission from the owners. I was hit in the Home Depot parking lot in Naperville, and the police would not even come to the lot to issue a ticket. I know, Rod, there is no way to prove this, but you have yet to prove anything I said is false, so I will rest on my track record here.
What a lot of people here seem to miss is that a lot of police overtime is generated from special events. That overtime is paid for by the event people but not put back into the police budget. Since there was no amount given to how much that amount was, we have to go by the amount that the council asked them to reduce overtime by. That small amount, in my opinion, seems to indicate that the majority of that overtime bill is covered by event planners.
I make lots of arrests and don't ever expect me to do late paperwork unless I get paid. Would you?
*****
Mr. PoPo...
:-) Ask an Educator! :-(
And hmmm seriously...Dial is quite Attractive actually! ;-)
For those of you who think that since you don't see a "marked" police car that there are no police around...You never know who may be in the unmarked car next to you, watching and waiting!
to Mr POPO Thank you for your contribution.