Could pension issue affect Marshall for manager?

Why is this again in a blog? It is starting to appear that the Sun really has nothing else to report about and continues to re-run stories with a slight tweaking here or there. I have noticed a significant decline in postings as many of these blogs are just repeats of another blog which all ties back to the cops or city hall. Isn't there anything else going on in a town of over 150,000 people.

As far as this blog, if he is qualified then he deserves the job. He should have to go through the hiring process like anyone else.

He earned his police pension. If he gets hired as City Manager he will earn that pension. No double dipping here. It is a non-issue. Anyone who argues that it is should look at their careers and decide how fair it would be if they had some of their retirement money taken away.

At some point in the past, people in government worked for less wages than in the private sector. Government jobs were considered public service jobs. There was pride to be a public servant and money was secondary. Those days are apparently long gone!!!

Now if Bob Marshall is retained as a Manager he will be collecting $259,000 from the taxpayers of Naperville. I am contributing $528 dollars annually to the pension pumping money into Mr. Marshall's retirement. No one is pumping money into my pension...it will be 0 when I retire at age 65. Mr. Marshall is able to retire at age 51 with an $85,000 dollar pension mostly at my expense and my fellow taxpayer's expense. It seems ridiculous to me whether it is state or city law. His retirement pension is more than 95% of employees make while working full time in the good old USA till age 66 and above.

Since his pension is 75% of his final years pay, it seems like he was averaging 113,000 dollars in his final years without counting OT. Cops should be paid well. But basically here you have a cop with OT possibly making 150k a year.

Only in Naperville, can a cop make more than a Doctor who goes to school for 8 years, serves 2 or 3 years internship and almost has to be the top 5% of his class to gain entrance to medical school.

When or if Mr. Marshall worked the Charities we were paying him approximately $81.73 cents in OT while he walked up and down Jackson Ave basically doing nothing since there is rarely ever any trouble at the festivals...plus with 33 cops working besides him, his odds for being called to any incident on any shift are little to nothing. Surgeons work very hard, under extremely stressful circumstances, and if they make a mistake, a patient under their care can die. They have extremely high liability insurance costs that they pay for themselves.

We paid for Mr. Marshall's health insurance costs and most of his other benefits. Most likely, also the majority of his pension costs.

I think the City of Naperville and the State of Illinois need to re-examine these pension funds. How is it that the 15.3% civilians and private employers jointly pay into Social Security may only get us a $1000 or $2000 per month when we retire. I believe, if police officers contribute to their own pension, they pay less than 15.3%, yet they apparently receive over 7k per month. The reason that is so, is because the taxpayers are paying for most of this 7k. Check you tax bills and you will see how large this pension number is. It is huge. Now we know why the pension number has to be so high on our real estate tax bills.

Retired cops are making 85k plus in pension while hard working rookie cops are making 55k while working full time. Only in Naperville can things be so crazy.

I just wanted to thank Moderator Jim for posting this topic for discussion. There are many questions yet to be answered. Let us hope many of these questions will be answered by other bloggers.

Hopefully, after a few hundred posts, we will understand this pension and double dipping much better. It just seems like something is wrong....if not we need clarification.

You would think that Mr. Marshall's pension would be at least frozen while he is gainfully employed by the City of Naperville. But paying him twice while building yet another pension for him just seems a little outrageous.

Mayor Pradel must feel like chopped liver only making 20 to 30k a year and working just as hard as Mr. Marshall if not harder. Mayor Pradel was plowing snow in the cold of the winter while Mr. Marshall was staying warm by his fireplace. And yet the guy who stayed by his fireplace made 10 times what the guy who busted his rear end in the freezing cold made.

Mayor Pradel only makes 25 bucks an hour snow plowing which is a real tiring job. It is unplanned. He has to get up in the middle of the night unexpectedly sometimes. Other times he can not even go to sleep all night. Mr. Marshall use to be able to walk up and down Jackson with no stress and plenty of notification and he made $81.73 an hour, assuming he worked, like almost all NPD officers do at these charity events. More than 3 times what the Mayor made and yet the Mayor worked 10 times as hard as Mr. Marshall in the cold of the winter and in the middle of the night with no sleep. How is all this fair?

Let us be fair. If we are going to pay Mr. Marshall $81.73 for walking up and down Jackson during charities, let us pay Mayor Pradel $817.30 per hour for working 10 times as hard in very difficult freezing conditions. We all know he had an accident snowplowing which indicates he was risking his life to clean our cul de sacs. Snow plowing is no easy job. It is a very risky job. Most transmissions blow up during snow plowing. Let us hope Mayor Pradel did not have to use his own truck!

I think it is time for the City Council to meet and seriously evaluate every job in this city and what it pays. It is time for them to evaluate every expense and expenditure. It is time to stop all waste in all departments!

Above all it is time to hire the most experienced outsider in the nation for the Manager's position, to run and fix our beautiful City of Naperville. Mr. Marshall and Mr. Burchard have proved to be far from the best . Just put your real estate tax bills under the microscope and you will see all the answers for yourselves. The numbers on your tax bill are their truthful evaluations! I say it is time for our city to take a change of course from its old entrenched ways methods that are no long working in modern Naperville!

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PS. While the City of Naperville has not shown any hope so far, the State of Illinois House of Representatives recently voted 109-1 to stop the Governor of Illinois from putting any more signs with his name on State Highways and Tollways. Each sign was costing $15,000 and he was putting up an average of 32 per year for an annual cost of $480,000 to taxpayers. Let us hope our City Council can do something similar soon and stand up to our Police Dept. and City Administrators.

If the State can stop business as usual that has been going on for decades, the City of Naperville can step up to the plate and follow suit. Business as usual at some point must stop! Sometimes there are better ways!

I think Marshall i s doing a fabulous job. It's a sin to think that someone would think him getting too much should invalidate his efforts. I don't understand it.

The guy earned his pension. Why is this a problem?

Whether he's qualified to be city manager is a separate question. A city like Naperville is a huge organization and daily operations are multifaceted and complex. The pay to lead a equivalently sized private business would exceed what Marshall would get. Takes money to get talent!

this is a hot-button topic, first suggested by participants of this online community forum

His past pension situation is irrelevant. Whomever takes the manager job will be eligible for a pension as well. There is no additional cost to any taxpayer. This is a stupid story, suggested by right-wingers who resent all government and government services. Their motto is clearly "I got mine". Haven't they been give way more than their share of ink? (and bytes)?

I am just glad to hear that the city is doing a nationwide search for city manager. The city needs to look at many applicants. If Mr. Marshall interviews well then I wish him well. I personnally do not feel he has enough job experience for the size of our city.

Just a reminder - Mayor Pradel collects a pension from the city of Naperville also, he retired from the Police Department too.

Pension plans need to be changed for local, state and government employees to reflect what everyone else is getting social security and 401K. Many private companies have done away with pension plans. Yes I am tired of paying for this as a taxpayer.

I agree with the posters calling the pension issue irrelevant. Mr Marshal earned his pension. If he is qualified for the city manager job, he should get it and will earn any associated pension. What pension he has already earned or will earn has nothing to do do with whether or not he should get the city manager job.

I feel like the Sun is implying he has done something wrong. The Sun is becoming more a gossip type paper by the week and the blogging just fuels the fire.

Why is the Sun attacking this guy? Seriously, waaaaay too much reporting on this. If he is deemed to be the best guy for the job, then so be it.

I don't know Bob Marshall nor have I met him. I'm also not a police officer and I don't have any officers in my family. The issue of two pensions is simple. He qualified for a job on our police department and rose through the ranks, not an easy task due to the testing process for each rank. He retired from the police department and EARNED his pension after 30 years of service to Naperville's citizens.

At some point along the way he returned to college and EARNED his masters degree. He then went through a hiring process and was chosen as the assistant city manager.

If after completing the search for the new city manager, Bob Marshall is the top candidate and is chosen for that position, he will EARN the pension that is a benefit of the job.

Whoever is chosen for the position will EARN the pension associated with it. Naperville taxpayers still make the payout. My only stipulation is that the most qualified candidate receive the job.

Lastly, to address the second Anonymous poster, you should do ALL of your homework before making a post. I'll try to address your points quickly.

1)There is still pride in being a public servant. Money is secondary, but we have homes, cars, medical bills, and college educations to fund just like everyone else.
2)No matter who gets the job of city manager Bob Marshall will still receive his police pension and the city will still pay the city manager pension. So by your calculations we still pay out $259,000 per year and your portion will be $528. Don't you want the best qualified candidate in that seat?
3)I can't comment on Bob Marshall's pension amount because I don't know. However I am pretty sure that a captain on the police department is not eligible for overtime. He would be considered a staff position at that rank and staff does not accrue OT.
4)I know a couple of doctor's and they make a lot more than cops in Naperville in salary and pension.
5)The city covering the OT bill for local charities is a separate issue. If you oppose it, voice your opinion at the city council meetings. You can't condemn any city worker (there are police, fire, park district, and public works employees) for accepting OT when offered. There aren't 33 officers at the events. There are 18. Some of the Ribfest concerts attract more than 100,000 people. (Yes my numbers are correct. Contact the Ribfest organizers if you mant to confirm.) So during the day we have 145,000 people in town (give or take 10,000) we have approx. 15 officers on the street. I think 18 officers supervising a crowd of 100,000 (mostly adults) where alcohol is being served is probably not enough security.
6)Cops work under stressful circumstances and if they make a mistake someone can die and they can be sued in civil court. That starting pay of $55,000 doesn't seem like that much anymore does it!
7)I agree that cops receive a nice pension. There are other jobs where you receive a nice pension also. Most are teachers, firemen, FBI agents, railroad employees, public works, and other federal, state, and local jobs. These employees do the grunt work of our society. People wonder why cops are grumpy. It is because 90% of their interaction with the public is to enforce the law and people don't like it. A comfortable pension is the least they deserve after 30 years of service. If someone has the foresight to begin a career in an occupation where they will receive a nice pension don't be upset with them. How old are you? Maybe you should change careers.
8)Not all cops make 85K in pension. You have to have the time and rank. The vast majority of the force retire as beat cops and not with 30 years of service. The starting pay is probably about 55K. However if you look at nearby communities like Aurora, Joliet, Wheaton, Schaumburg, Rosemont, Arlington Hts, etc. you will see the same pay scale. That is just the going rate for this area.
9)Mayor Pradel does make much less in pension for two reasons. First he retired at a lower rank and more importantly he retired much earlier. Check ten years from now and you'll see a captain with 30 years of service gets a much larger pension than Bob Marshall. Mayor Pradel's snowplowing is voluntary. If he does it to supplement his pension or for extra spending money, he isn't locked into that job. It is his decision to get up in the middle of the night and plow.

I don't know Bob Marshall nor have I met him. I'm also not a police officer and I don't have any officers in my family. The issue of two pensions is simple. He qualified for a job on our police department and rose through the ranks, not an easy task due to the testing process for each rank. He retired from the police department and EARNED his pension after 30 years of service to Naperville's citizens.

At some point along the way he returned to college and EARNED his masters degree. He then went through a hiring process and was chosen as the assistant city manager.

If after completing the search for the new city manager, Bob Marshall is the top candidate and is chosen for that position, he will EARN the pension that is a benefit of the job.

Whoever is chosen for the position will EARN the pension associated with it. Naperville taxpayers still make the payout. My only stipulation is that the most qualified candidate receive the job.

Lastly, to address the second Anonymous poster, you should do ALL of your homework before making a post. I'll try to address your points quickly.

1)There is still pride in being a public servant. Money is secondary, but we have homes, cars, medical bills, and college educations to fund just like everyone else.
2)No matter who gets the job of city manager Bob Marshall will still receive his police pension and the city will still pay the city manager pension. So by your calculations we still pay out $259,000 per year and your portion will be $528. Don't you want the best qualified candidate in that seat?
3)I can't comment on Bob Marshall's pension amount because I don't know. However I am pretty sure that a captain on the police department is not eligible for overtime. He would be considered a staff position at that rank and staff does not accrue OT.
4)I know a couple of doctor's and they make a lot more than cops in Naperville in salary and pension.
5)The city covering the OT bill for local charities is a separate issue. If you oppose it, voice your opinion at the city council meetings. You can't condemn any city worker (there are police, fire, park district, and public works employees) for accepting OT when offered. There aren't 33 officers at the events. There are 18. Some of the Ribfest concerts attract more than 100,000 people. (Yes my numbers are correct. Contact the Ribfest organizers if you mant to confirm.) So during the day we have 145,000 people in town (give or take 10,000) we have approx. 15 officers on the street. I think 18 officers supervising a crowd of 100,000 (mostly adults) where alcohol is being served is probably not enough security.
6)Cops work under stressful circumstances and if they make a mistake someone can die and they can be sued in civil court. That starting pay of $55,000 doesn't seem like that much anymore does it!
7)I agree that cops receive a nice pension. There are other jobs where you receive a nice pension also. Most are teachers, firemen, FBI agents, railroad employees, public works, and other federal, state, and local jobs. These employees do the grunt work of our society. People wonder why cops are grumpy. It is because 90% of their interaction with the public is to enforce the law and people don't like it. A comfortable pension is the least they deserve after 30 years of service. If someone has the foresight to begin a career in an occupation where they will receive a nice pension don't be upset with them. How old are you? Maybe you should change careers.
8)Not all cops make 85K in pension. You have to have the time and rank. The vast majority of the force retire as beat cops and not with 30 years of service. The starting pay is probably about 55K. However if you look at nearby communities like Aurora, Joliet, Wheaton, Schaumburg, Rosemont, Arlington Hts, etc. you will see the same pay scale. That is just the going rate for this area.
9)Mayor Pradel does make much less in pension for two reasons. First he retired at a lower rank and more importantly he retired much earlier. Check ten years from now and you'll see a captain with 30 years of service gets a much larger pension than Bob Marshall. Mayor Pradel's snowplowing is voluntary. If he does it to supplement his pension or for extra spending money, he isn't locked into that job. It is his decision to get up in the middle of the night and plow.

You said:
"No one is pumping money into my pension...it will be 0 when I retire at age 65."

That's your own fault. Babyboomers are not saving for retirement, they're waiting for social security to take care of them; thanks a lot for putting this burden on the backs of the youth.

You said:
"Only in Naperville, can a cop make more than a Doctor who goes to school for 8 years, serves 2 or 3 years internship and almost has to be the top 5% of his class to gain entrance to medical school."

Wow, really? Do you know how much a new doctor makes? I just did a google search. A new doc in internal medicine can expect $154k-$245k. A new doc in general surgery can expect $226k-$520k.

Research your ideas. That's all I'm saying.

There really are two questions here and it is a bit difficult to separate them:

One is the question fairness or even equity of double dipping. Police and fire get to double dip. Workers in other jobs do not, so is that fair? Some fire department employees collect pensions from more than one town and get to double dip, so is that fair? If we want double dipping to be allowed then shouldn't it be open to all? Since a lot of this has suggested to be out of the control of local officials then maybe the Naperville Sun should do some in-depth reporting on so all the citizens of Naperville can better understand what is actually happening with the public pension system we are reporting. For example, in the case in question it is reported that an 85K police pension has been earned after 30 years... how much does a police officer contribute... how much does the city contribute... does this amount adjust for inflation... what are dependent benefits... how does this compare to final salary... was final salary bumped to increase the pension payout... etc., etc. What also strikes me as a bit odd and uneven is that a police pension after 30 years is paying out $85K, yet the City Manager job which is at a significantly higher rate of pay only pays out about $30K after 10 years... while the difference doesn't seem right at face value it should also be questioned why there would even be a pension after only 10 years of service?

The second question really gets at the heart of who should be our next city manager, all pension issues aside. It is fair to understand what the expectations of the average citizen and taxpayer with regards to experience, education, and past accomplishments. Other factors might include internal vs external candidates, experience with smaller, equal sized, or larger communities, and/or experience with a city manager form of city government. Hopefully high on the list of personal attributes are to consider candidates who possess excellent people and money management skills because at that level that is what they most deal with... people and money. Other factors might be to consider candidates who have experience with mature communities as opposed to growth communities now that Naperville has passed its growth phase. The organization, structure, staffing, and budgeting levels of departments in a mature city are not the same as a growing city and we need candidates who will right size all of the department staffing and budgets going forward.

Maybe it would be better for the Naperville Sun to separate these two questions into two different threads for better and clearer discussion.

I agree that the pension issue should not be connected to the hiring decision. Mr. Marshall has done nothing wrong -- the pension was a benefit of his employment. That said, I understand that in Illinois, public pensions are severely underfunded -- I cannot find the specifics for the IMRF -- but am still looking. However, if Mr. Marshall is 51 years old, he is likely to live at least 30 more years. Over that period of time he will collect $2.5 million in pension, before any inflation adjustments -- likely considerably more than the total wages earned during the 30 years he worked and far more than any amount he contributed to that fund. To me, that is the issue and it applies to educators as well. Taxpayers simply cannot afford to pay retirement benefits at 75% of of the highest year's earnings. The problem is growing and will only get worse if we don't develop the ability to say to no to demands that we cannot afford. Private industry has rapidly eliminated defined benefit pensions because they are unsustainable or unaffordable -- when will the public sector get the message?

If the man is qualified then he deserves the job, if not then hire someone else. Lets not forgot Mayor Pradel gets a nice pension as well for his service with the police department. As far as Doctor's making less money. I have yet to see a doctor complaining as they drive their BMW's or Mercedes to work. Come on people lets talk about something with some substance.

Something that most folks don't realize is that police officers get paid well, don't pay into social (you know...the black hole) and get terrific pensions. Pretty good for many cops who have never even earned a bachelors degree. Yes they make more money than some doctors and like school teachers and politicians they coast along. After some time their jobs are not very hard (except for that occasional bad day). We all go there from time to time. Yes, had I to do it over I would try to become a ditch digger with a badge, and that is truly what most of them are. Having said that I want to add that Naperville cops are better than most, but they shouldn't be making the kind of money they do!

Moderator Jim,

Instead of letting us debate in cirlces could you be kind enough to make a quick call to your source and find out what PERCENTAGE police officers contribute of their pay to the pension fund.

I think this is an important question. In the private sector the employee contributes 7.65% and the employer matches it with an identical 7.65% for Social Security.

As we all know Social Security can not support anyone upon retirement....under a police pension you can almost afford a mini-mansion. If it is supplamanted you can afford a mansion in Naperville. Was that the purpose of RETIREMENT MONEY when our forefathers orginated the idea! I suspect the purpose was enough money for security in your older years...not to afford MANSIONS!

Since police are getting huge pensions after only 30 years instead of 44 years as is the case of a college graduate in the private sector from S.S., one has to wonder what the taxpayers are contributing to this police pension to make these 7,000 dollar payment per month possible. I recall the famous Drew Peterson retired before his 30 years with only the rank of a Sergeant and was getting nearly $6200 a month pension from Bolingbrook.

I hope the Sun can find out some time today, what PERCENTAGE of his pay, a police officer contributes to his retirement pension.

As usual, when a Sun reporter does a story, he only scrathces the surface and needs to learn to dig a little deeper and ask a few more questions!

Thanks!

Moderator Jim,

Great thread! It seems like you are being bashed from those who are benefitting and as you know there are quite of few of them in our City.

Why should private citizens contribute to the pensions of government employees? We are paying them good wages! That should be enough. A police officer starting out of college makes more than most other 4 year college graduates.

Would police officers and firemen be willing to contribute to private pensions of doctors and nurses who also provide a good service to humanity? I suspect not!

Pensions were eliminated by Corporate America because they were too costly and basically unaffordable. We were left to fetch for ourselves.

The playing field neeeds to be equalized. Government needs to step up to the plate and elimiate pensions or have the employees pay for them without a subsidy from the taxpayers. Is it not enough we are subsidizing downtown parking and police OT? Where does it all end? How much can the taxpayer afford in these bad ecomomic times? We are about ready to hand our rebate checks to the cult that runs City Hall on June 1. That is really the true colt in this town...not the Napergatians who don't separate us from anything!

Just like the State House of Representatives voted 109 to 1 to eliminate signage promoting the Governor's Name to the tune of 480k a year, pension should be eliminated! How ridiculous! Let us hope they smell the coffee again soon and eliminate pensions? They may not as I suspect they are recipients!

How can one fight the lawmakers when they benefit from the laws they write? That is a question for the Moderator...to ponder???

Whether or not Marshal has a police pension is of no consequence to the city manager’s job, as long as the best qualified candidate is hired. I don’t care if he, or anyone else, “double dips” as they have EARNED their pensions. This should be a non-issue and isn’t deserving of being on the cover of the Sun.

There are some people who don’t appreciate our police officers or the job they do. They just like to complain about how much an officer makes or say that they have stress-free jobs. That’s a farce (no, I am not a police officer).

The truth of the matter is that police work is stressful no matter what the crime rate is in our city. Police officers work in an uncertain environment, respond to numerous calls, are available 24-7, and put their lives in danger. You may think a police officer in Naperville just strolls the Riverwalk like any one of us but he (or she) is ready, willing, and available to run towards trouble when everyone else runs away.

Are some of their days stress-free? I’m sure some are. But just as you don’t cancel your car insurance because you haven’t had a recent accident (besides the legality of that), you keep highly-skilled and well-trained police officers on the city payroll even if the crime rate is low. To attract and keep these individuals, you will have to pay a competitive salary. That’s the reality of the situation.

I would urge people to read John Cass’ column in the Trib (sorry, Sun) last Sunday (at http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-kass_bd18may18,0,5609742.column) regarding public service. It’s not dead; you just have to open your eyes.

T.B.

According to the IMRF.org website, employees contribute 4.5% of pay and employers contribute somewhere between 7.48% and 16.96%, depending upon factors that aren't clear to me, yet. To correct my earlier posting, the IMRF claims to be fully funded, although they are using an assumed investment return of 7.5% to make that calculation. That that seems a little optimistic to me, but I'm hardly an expert. It also states benefits are capped at 80% of highest year's earnings. Finally, the publication suggests that there are variances between plan costs and benefits depending upon options selected by individual sponsoring organizations.

By To annonymous... on May 21, 2008 10:39 AM
You said:
"Only in Naperville, can a cop make more than a Doctor who goes to school for 8 years, serves 2 or 3 years internship and almost has to be the top 5% of his class to gain entrance to medical school."

Wow, really? Do you know how much a new doctor makes? I just did a google search. A new doc in internal medicine can expect $154k-$245k. A new doc in general surgery can expect $226k-$520k.

Research your ideas. That's all I'm saying.

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Anonymous 757am was right...you need to learn the difference between a general practioner and a SPECIALIST!

You are talking about doctors that specialize. Internal medicine and surgery are specialities. Much more than a 2 year internship or residency is needed to become a specialist. Many times 4 more years are neeed. Anonymous was not referring to them as she stated 2 years and not 6 years of residency or internships!

A General Practitioner after paying his own rent and and liability insurance expenses, would be lucky to take home a 100k before taxes. Pretty much less than a cop who works a lot of OT such as that officer who made 45,900 in OT.

Many school teachers and nurses are lucky to make 35k starting out of college. I can assure you their jobs are much more stressful than a cop on OT walking around at the Rib Fest or Last Fling taking in the beautiful atmosphere waiting for trouble to happen that rarely ever occurs. Why should a cop start at 20k higher than a school teacher or nurse? What risk does a Naperville Cop have of being killed on the job? Almost Zilch! The odds of a school teacher being shot by a pupil are higher than a Naperville Cop being shot and killed on the streets of Naperville. A nurse has a higher chance of contaminating aids or hepatitis accidentally than a Naperville Cop being shot at a Charity Event or any event for that matter.

Government pay and taxation are out of control and the taxpayers are finally feeling it...I suspect something will be done in the next election to our elected officials if they don't take some action.

Action is Needed! Action is Necessary! Action must be taken to save those in office!

End pensions in all government agencies just as the private sector ended them! Let us all be on a level playing field with no one being subsidized!

to the Moderator:

How do I edit a post? My last one challenged the investment assumption of 7.5%, but have since learned that the plan has earned 8.9% per year for the 10 year period ended 2006, so their assumption is valid. In addition, they are fully funded -- "the only major public pension fund in Illinois" that was fully funded. Kudos to the fund management/trustees. I'd like to correct my post, if possible

Response from Naperville Sun editors:

Send a corrected post and we'll delete the old one, and this one. Copy and paste your old one and make the change so you don't have to retype it all.

Action is Needed! on May 21, 2008 3:33 PM

Anonymous was not referring to them as she stated 2 years and not 6 years of residency or internships!

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I'm not going to respond to your rant, but I am wondering how you would know that Anonymous (Anonymous on May 21, 2008 7:57 AM) is a woman? Nowhere in "her" post does "she" indicate gender. Could it be that Action is Needed and Anonymous 7:57 are the same person?

If so it makes the following line, "Anonymous 757am was right...you need to learn the difference between a general practioner and a SPECIALIST!", pretty interesting.

Apparently one of the Napergatian methods is to post anonymously, and then respond to your own post with different names, each time praising yourself for uncovering yet more government scandal. I'm new to the blogs, but I can see the pattern. Many blogs share the same grammer, syntax and sentence structure.

Yep, the old public union hacks are at it again. Slowly ruining the midwest. He EARNED his pension? Yeah, right. Try this instead the union controlled state legislators bowed down to the unions and gave in to their demands. That's ok, the day is coming when Illinois and many municipalities will be so empty of people to keep taxing that they will have to declare bankruptcy like San Diego did and Vallejo CA just did.

Host Ted,

Why is it so hard for your newspaper with connections to City Officials to make a call and find out what percentage a police officer contributes of his salary to his pension??? A simple question, please!

If he contributes 20% and he is fully financing the pension that subsidizes his retirement, this thread should be closed. He would be entitled to every dollar of his pension as it is his money...not taxpayer money!

If he contributes little to nothing as is my suspicion to financing the pension that subsidizes him in retirement, well this thread becomes VERY HOT!

Yes, I also paid $759.24 cents to the Naperville City Pension Fund on my Dupage Real Estate Tax Bill. I find it disturbing that I have to finance the retirement of others at the expense of my own retirement.

This T.B. character seems to never get it! As the Napergatians stated he talks in circles and appears to be full of hatred for the civilian tax paying population of Naperville! While he denies that he is a government employee, that does not necessarily make it so?

Nurses and teachers have much more stresful jobs than police officers but T.B. apparently feels they are worth 20,000 less than a police officer when starting their careers. How shameful of him to think less of a nurse or teacher than a police officer who pretty much does nothing all day but drives around and gives an occassional ticket when he/she feels like it or is in the right mood! If he/she feels like doing nothing one day, he just tells his boss there were no speeders out today and goes home collecting his 8 hours of pay without having done anything of substance!

Mr. Popo once told us all he had to do was have a few more drug posts than a patrol officer and no one will question him or hold him accountable for his time! Can you imagine that? He admitted his job was very cozy. Are you disputing a Police Officers version of his own employment, T.B.?

Teachers and nurses don't have that luxury. They work their a$$es off every day they go to work. Let us treat them fairly and pay them 20k more than cops and not 20k less than cops. They educate our kids and save our lives daily.

The inequities we are all seeing are caused by a very corrupt City Council who allowed all this INEQUALITY TO TAKE PLACE OVER THE YEARS. They simply did not have the ability or talent to negotiate with the police union. They were spineless and gave them everything at taxpayer expense.

Maybe the City Council should buy each Naperville Homeowner a tree that produces money in the back yard to afford all these extravaganzas of City Hall! Fantasy has got to stop! Reality has to sink in at some point!

Response from Naperville Sun editors:

The city of Naperville typically requires that a Freedom of Information Act request be filed, which can take up to seven working days to respond to. Any question regarding salaries, personnel, and most policy issues are met with the response: "You must file a FOIA request." That's why it takes time.

Radar Gun,

You are not new to the blogs. What an outright lie that a person new to the blogs can suddenly see a PATTERN! You are the Old Joe! Your style is so unique. You listen to those police blogs all day and night. It does not surprise me you would choose Radar Gun as your new handle after John Q. Public mopped the floors with your mathematical abilities and ruined your reputation.

It seems like you are now trying to restore your credibility under a new name.

I will admit that I am a Napergatian who has posted under my first name on other threads. I chose a "Question for Host Ted" in an attempt to get his attention so he would ask City Officials some questions that I felt needed to be answered.

The Moderator and Host never said we could not use titles. I saw that being used on the School Disctrict Threads and enjoyed doing the same on this thread.

If you need to know who I am Joe, I am McFarland. This is my first time posting under a different name. I expect to go back to McFarland when we have a Napergate Sanctioned Thread as I like my fellow Napergatians to know who I am. I don't see or recognize any Napergatians here so I thought I would have some fun with a title.

Is that a crime, Joe?

I would not worry about who is who. The Host and Moderator can figure out from our IP numbers who is who! They don't seem to care so why do you care so much! Is the message more important or the messenger? In your case it is the messenger! In your case your goal is to establish Radar Gun a little better than Joe, so you can get your silly rises again!

The word "his" is commonly used to refer to his or her when talking generalities. It is cumbersome to write his/her so people pick one or the other. I am sure that is what you were referring to. If someone chooses to use his or her instead of his/her they are just trying to be simple. It does not mean they know the gender of the writer with any certainty.

I have no clue if T.B. is a guy or a girl. I have referred to T.B. as a him. If I guessed right, does that mean I am him or even know him. Stop being so silly, Joe, AKA, Radar Gun!

But "Radar Gun" alias Joe, instead of worrying about Napergatians surfacing under new names, why don't you worry about yourself surfacing under a new name.

You are such a hypocrit! I admitted who I am!

Can you be a man and admit you are the Old Joe! Lol!!!

You really don't have to admit anything..it is a bit too obvious. What a way to start a new chapter of your life....with a lie!!!

Yes, "your new to the blogs" Joe and I just sold the Brooklyn Bridge for 2 cents... What a way to restore your credibility....starting with a LIE!!!

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Host Ted,

Does it not seem kind of unusual that for the first time Joe does not show up on one of your very important threads? Is that a conincidence or what? Of course he showed up but under Radar Gun...lol..!!!

Host Ted,

Response from Naperville Sun editors:

The city of Naperville typically requires that a Freedom of Information Act request be filed, which can take up to seven working days to respond to. Any question regarding salaries, personnel, and most policy issues are met with the response: "You must file a FOIA request." That's why it takes time.

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I understand. It just seems so ridiculous. But you are trying!

Maybe since my question is a policy issue, a FOIA may not be required.

I just wanted to know what percent of their salaries police donate into their pension. It seems someone on this blog site may know!

I provided my e-mail to you so you know I am the old McFarland who just felt like being "Question to Host Ted" for a few hours. Not playing any games as Joe would like you to believe!

I just thought I better reveal my identity before the Group of Five come up with new Napergate Cult Conspiracy Theories.

Anyway, I think you chose a great topic, Host Ted. Hopefully, we can get some answers from other bloggers without troubling you for so many FOIAs.

I just feel when a City needs FOIA's even for policy, they have something to hide.

Thanks again for everything Host Ted and keep up the good works.

Try to do your best to keep that Group of Five calm. They have developed a hysteria that Napergatians are in their closets, under their beds and in their ducts. I hope they get over their hysteria soon. It has reached the point of a sickening psyhosis!

Must be a slow news day for the Sun. Bob was a police office for 30 years. He earned what he got. Bob retired as a police officer and is receiving the pension that any other officer with his rank and years of service. Period. Bob then gets another job, one that he is well qualified for. Wow, it for the same city...so what. The two are unrelated. Naperville's payout would be the same regardless of who has the job. Why would you focus on the fact the Bob happened to have another job with the city rather than he is best qualified for the job!

Well said NaperSouthSide

This is TAXPAYER MONEY. Enough is enough!!

McFarland you asked "Why is it so hard for your newspaper with connections to City Officials to make a call and find out what percentage a police officer contributes of his salary to his pension??? A simple question, please!"

Why do you want the Sun to do your work? I would love to carry on my masters legacy, but I can't as I have to rely on others to put on my leash and lead me outside to the real world. Dude, get out and do some good, quit expecting others to do it for you. How will the Napergate slate get anywhere sitting around waiting for others? Do you think my master waited? Hell no! He got out and did something. All you Napergatians are no better than me, toss you a bone and a new flea collar and you are happy. Well I can tell you, that ain't the life, get out and do something for dog's sake.

McFarland et al, why do you claim others are posting under different names when you appear to be the one guilty of it? Typical of the napergate cult, you do what you accuse others of and then try to act morally superior.

If all of you cop haters think it is so easy to be a cop for thirty years and reap supposedly huge benefits, why don't you join the force? If you are too out of shape or too old, join another branch of government service so you can get a pension. According to all of you, they are easy jobs, so get one and go live the good life. I would think that given the cost of housing in Naperville it would involve a pay cut for most of you, but I guess you are the underachievers of Naperville.

By the way,public school teachers are also in a union, end their careers at a fairly high pay, and receive publicly funded pensions, which would make the teacher comparison moot (not to mention the fact that a teacher only works nine months a year, not a full year).

The current police and fire pension systems do not make any sense in today's economy. They are in serious need of reform to get back to some reasonable sense of par with the pension plans of those who actually pay for the majority of their true cost.

Until police and fire pension systems are reformed I will be against ANY hiring of retired police or fire to fill other city jobs. Other city workers are blatantly discriminated against with this double and triple dipping system and it just is not right or fair. If these retired police and fire want to get another job after they retire, fine let them find work in the private sector and maybe for once in their work career get to experience something close to what the average taxpayer experiences in private employment.

Marshall is already collecting more money from his pension than a lot of people who are working full time earn in a year. Let Marshall enjoy his retirement that everyone claims he has so rightfully earned and let the city keep someone else who actually needs the employment working and supporting a family. Let's not forget that no one held a gun to Marshall's head and forced him out or forced him to retire. He retired by his own choice. He could still be working full time at the police department if he had wanted.

Instead of filling the City Manager position how about Marshall starts his own security firm? He can round up the rest of the retired Naperville police officers and the City of Naperville can outsource the gig over at Ribfest and Last Fling to him. Just think about how many full time police officers who will no longer be kept away from fighting real crime while they are forced to baby sit a bunch of drunks at a festival!

Let's also not forget that if Pradel wasn't the Mayor the chances of Marshall being appointed Assistant City Manager at another city similar to Naperville would have been somewhere between slim and none considering his overall lack of experience and qualifications. To counter those who seem to think Marshall may be qualified to be City Manager one would have to ask if Marshall indeed is a qualified candidate then why hasn't another city already lured him away?

I think Mr. Marshall should do this job pro bono. He already gets plenty. If he wants the job (as he says he does) that overature will cinch it for him!

The Good 'ol Boy Network is obviously alive and well in the City of Naperville. How about posting the job and seeing who is the best qualified for the job vs. just patting your friend on the back indicating that he's a "shoo-win".

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. We will NEVER know unless the job is posted and a search conducted from all qualified candidates.

We live in a very wealthy suburb...within a nation where 1 in 6 of our children face poverty daily. I understand that not all of us have children, but all children grow up...and we will need to face them as "contributers" to our society or "pay" for them (due to incarceration, institutionalization, etc.). What sort of world will we face if we continue to ignore the "least amongst us"? We are already seeing a shortage of nurses and other needed individuals that we all will most likely rely upon at some point to provide each of us care. I am concerned when I read articles, such as this one, regarding costly pensions and other forms of "subsidizing the wealthy". It's not that individuals haven't "earned them", but rather - if they are still employed anywhere - why are they able to claim their "retirement pay" now? We have families in our community that are taking out multiple mortgages and raiding their 401ks to pay for their children's day care (yes, day care - not college...daycare runs around $1,000/month per child in our city!) and medical expenses...not to mention gas to travel to and from jobs that often are not even paying them $85K/year.

Societies, in the long run, are typically judged by how they care for the most desperate "in their midst". How will we be judged by future generations if we continue to take money we don't "need" or not stand up and challenge those who permit it? We are losing our middle class quickly and those who can defer payment of such costly pensions would be true heros to allow such monies to go to those who are struggling to survive. Let's make housing more affordable, fix our roads, implement universal health care and examine other ways to support one another.

Pensions should be reserved for true retirement...not disbursed while employed in any capacity. What kind of a world are we going for? We may be insulated, here in Naperville, for a while. But, in the long run, we too will see the high costs of taking from the masses to give to the few. Especially, when the "few" can afford to "wait".

Yes, giving a police officer RETIREMENT pension to the tune of 85k is ridiculous.

If you work even while over 62 which is the earliest retirment age for Social Security, they chop away at your measly check depending upon how much you make. The more you make the more they reduce your Social Security check even though you are in your Golden Years and not your prime years like Mr. Marshall.

Mr. Marshall is not an evil man. He just took advantage of an evil system created by evil men. Kind of lke a rich person who takes advantage of gray areas on his Federal Tax Return to end up paying 0 taxes while the middle class pay through the roof.

The City Council and the House of Representatives need to end pension completley. No reason why city employees can't join the Social Security system like the rest of us. Are they better than us?
Why do we have to pay towards their retirment? They don't pay towards ours. Fair is fair!

Let us go for the complete overhaul starting at City Hall and moving towards the state. Let us be brave and bust the union.

If police and firemen won't work as non-union, at 55k annual starting pay, hundreds if not thousands are waiting to replace them. Young people are joining the Armed Forces for one-fifth or less of what an NPD Officer makes while truly RISKING their lives for us.

The NPD are keeping Naperville safe. We appreciate that. But they are not risking their lives like our Armed Forces day and night in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If Marshall is appointed to City Manager, with Chief Dial heading the police dept. and Mayor Pradel a former cop heading the City Council, the chance of reforming pension becomes zero. Betwen those 3, since all 3 benfit, they may decide to triple pension.

It seems that it is time for very brilliant and determined residents to start running for City Council so the system can be overhauled. I believe the pay is 10k per year and they pay your health insurance. So it is about 20k a year with benefits and you only have to work 24 days a year. Almost a 1000 dollars for each meeting. Go for it but once elected please don't become part of the system....reform the system! Don't get bought or influenced out when elected, as it seems Council Member John Rosanova may have been by the Brestal Law Firm through the employment of his son. Stand firm and steadfast in resisting all temptations that lead to conflicts of interest. BE BRAVE!!!

Moderator Jim and Host Ted,

It was reported by one of your bloggers that recently your employer, the Chicago Sun-Times, had lay-offs. I am assuming if was not true you would have not posted a false comment knowingly!

Today your newspaper reports the sharp and shrewd Chief Executive Officer of Edward's Hospital laid off 92 employees. Last week she laid off an additional 34 at Linden Oaks which is owned by Edward's Hospital.

That is almost 3% of her employees laid off in the span of a week. She noticed expenses were rising higher than revenues and combined with tough economic times she did what she had to do. I am impressed with her. I once had the fortune of meeting her personally in her office and she impressed me as someone who walks the walk and not just talks the talk.

Getting to the point, has City Manager Pro-Tem Bob Marshall laid off one single employee. Not to my knowledge! Nothing in the Naperville Sun or Daily Herald to that effect. If he was a good manager, he would have instituted some lay-offs and found some excess fat. If a manager of a city the size of Naperville can not find one bit of excess fat, in my opinion he is not qualified to be Manager of the best city in the United States.

Has he found two jobs that could be consolidated into one because of technology! Not to my knowledge!

Doing nothing is why we have experienced 15-25% increases in the Naperville portion of our Real Estate Tax Bills. Doing nothing is going to make the situation go from bad to worse!

The City Council needs to demand that Mr. Bob Marshall find a way to reduce his staff by 3% without missing a beat in services. It can be done easily. All this means is that the remaining employees have to put out 3% more to make up for the loss of 3% of the employees. How many employees at City Hall can say they don't waste 3% of their day? Took longer breaks than they should. Got to work late! Left work early! Wrote a personal e-mail on city time!
Made a personal phone call on city time!

This kind of thing happens in both city and corporate life. When times get tough corps stop it and become more productive to survive bad and hard economic times. However the City of Naperville does not do anything to make employees more efficient in bad economic times. They allow them to continue in their inefficient ways, and simply raise taxes to the residents who are struggling in these recessionary times.

Well, the tax increases have reached the point of intolerable to most citizens. As anonymous said before me, it is time to run a new slate of candidates. I don't care if it is a Napergate Slate or any kind of slate. But our current City Council is not doing enough. I think we need to sweep the entire City Council out of office including the 3 Napergate Council Members who are not doing enough. Even though they don't have the majority vote, I don't see or hear them making proposals or fighting for the citizens in City Council meetings. The seem to be afraid to raise their voices in opposition. It seems like not only Rosanova was gobbled by the Establishment but all of them are. Even Dick Furstenau took a 2000 dollar contribution from the Brestal Law Firm.

I can not imagine the frustration the Napergatge Man must be feeling. He tries to get people in office to induce change and instead they are inducted with establishment ideology and begin conforming. As some said on these blogs, it is just like that Stepford Wives movie.

The Napergate Man may have just given up after trying for 20 years. We have to accept that we were not there for him in the way he needed us when he was there for us.

So it is a new era and chapter today. We all have to vote in masses like never before and clean the city council of all its members and simply start all over again.

We need a City Council who can demand 3% staff reduction. We need a City Council who can demand a 10% budget cut. We need a City Council that can bring Police OT to under a half a million dollars. We need a City Council that schedules police to work 36 hours a week so when they have late arrests, they can deal with them on straight time instead of OT. Most hospital now are scheduling nurses to work three 12-hour shifts to avoid OT. Nurse always have to stay a half an hour to an hour over during transition so with 36 hours scheduled, they have a 4 hour safety valve before they hit OT.

As we can all see the City of Naperville does nothing under the leadership of Mr. Marshall. The Naperville Police Dept. does nothing under the leadership of Chief David Dial. The Fire Department lost their Chief and I doubt they are doing anything either.

Is this the kind of City we want to live in? One that refuses to evaluate for excess fat once a decade or in recessionary times! One that believes police officers should have pensions in retirement that exceed the pay of most police officers while working full time. A city that is not willing to bust the union "once and for all" and end unaffordable pensions just like they were ended for corporations.

Are u getting a pension Mr. Moderator or Mr. Host? I doubt it! So I hope you can relate to the unfairness, I am discussing! Are you happy about subsiding the retirements of those who make more than you do? I doubt either of you make the $113,000 Mr. Marshall made before he retired or even his pension of $85,000 he is currently receiving in addition to his 150k salary. Host Ted use to work from 7am to 1am non-stop. Show me one police officer who worked that hard for a full year. If Host Ted was able to be on police wages he would have made half a million last year and the Napeville Sun would have filed bankruptcy. Thanks for all that donated time, Host Ted! Thanks Moderator for not increasing your edition price from .50 cent to a dollar so you pay Host Ted his deserved half a million. Thanks for having the common sense to do the practical thing and keep the Naperville Sun affordable to all residents in these very trying times.

What are we afraid? Let the police all go on strike. The National Guard, State and County police by charter will have to protect Naperville until they hire new non-union police for reasonable salaries who agree to join the Social Security pools like the rest of us USA Citizens and Naperville Residents. We should all be treated equally.

As many have said before me, it is not fair to tax the residents at such high rates so police officers can walk off with 85k pensions at the age of 51. And take another job with the city making twice that much plus build for yet another second pension upon a second retirement. Only in Naperville can such insane things take place.!

How come pensions are not put on hold when government employees are gainfully employed. How ironic that the government that controls our Social Security feels it is necessary for us not collect fully until we hit age 70 and are almost dead. But yet at the same time they allow themselves, the government employees to collect full pension many times the size of Social Security at age 51. (For those who may not know you can collect S.S. when you turn 62 at the earliest.... but only partial....full retirement benefits only happens at age 70 if you are lucky to live that long)

How ironic that the government that administers Social Security demands we cough up our S.S. or at least a large part of it if we continue to work after receiving it? While these same government employees who administer our Social Security receive government pensions like Mr. Marshall.....how unfair!

Why should only the Napergate Man and Napergatians be outraged? Why is not every one of us Naperville Residents outraged? Don't we see what is happening? Don't we see that we are getting shafted? Don't we care? Is there no leader in this town of 150,000 but the Napergate Man to lead us? He served 20 years and should be allowed to move on to other avenues of his life....but what about the duty of the rest of us....do we not have a duty to ourselves and each other!

Many of us have not even spent a week fighting City Hall. We have to put in our fair share of time. We have to try! We have to organize! We have to fill City Hall Chambers up and demand that something be done like Chief Pamela Davis is doing for Edward's Hospital. Kudos to Pamela Davis!

I hope the day comes when I can say Kudos to our Mayor! When I can say Kudos to our City Manager! And last but not least when I can say Kudos to our Police Chief! I hope the day is near. I hope it is in my lifetime!

Response from Naperville Sun editors:

The City Council approves the budget, does it not? Is it not up to the City Council to direct the administration to cut costs? The elected leaders answer to the public, the administration answers to the elected leadership. If you want costs cut, proper procedures would dictate that you take those concerns to your elected representatives.

Response from Naperville Sun editors:

The City Council approves the budget, does it not? Is it not up to the City Council to direct the administration to cut costs? The elected leaders answer to the public, the administration answers to the elected leadership. If you want costs cut, proper procedures would dictate that you take those concerns to your elected representatives.

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Host Ted,
You are exactly right. Of course I want costs cut. All residents want costs cut and taxes reduced.

It would be much more effective if you as a powerful newspaper challenged the City of Naperville to match the efforts of CEO Pamela Davis of 3% staff cuts across the board.

None of us individually have the power of the Naperville Sun. You and Moderator Jim have tons of power when you choose to exercise it in your editorials and demand change.

But you must demand change in a blunt manner. City Officials don't get it when you pinch them gently or talk in circles. You have to hit them right between the eyes to get action. You have to bring heat on them! You have to bring pressure on them!

The Napergate Man was very effective using your newspaper to bring change. We all know the Naperville Sun did wonders for him and this community by allowing him to publish those Napergate ads. The City Council responded to his pressure.

What makes you think the City Council would not respond to pressure that you and Moderator Jim bring to bear on them through your newspaper. My suspicion is they will respond to you as they responded to the Napergate Man...I think even better!!!

What advantage do you guys believe the Napergate Man had over you guys? Personally, I feel you have a significant advantage over him and could be twice as productive if you chose to put the screws to the City Council. As you stated that is where we have to go, as they set the policies. At least we agree on that point!

Response from Host Ted:

You give us too much credit. As I've said before, we respond to what people in the community say and do. Residents who sign up to address the council at meetings get our attention. That's doing something in the real world, as opposed to words in this virtual reality. And as a general-interest newspaper in a democracy where majority rules, we tend to think we respond to what the majority wants, though at times a vocal minority gets our attention. It comes down to this: Do a majority of Naperville residents prefer to pay for excellent services, or pay less for diminished services?

Do a majority of Naperville residents prefer to pay for excellent services, or pay less for diminished services?

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Host Ted,
You are assuming the City of Naperville is operating at 100% efficiency. I seriously doubt that. You are assuming there is no excess fat in City Hall. I doubt that! You are assuming jobs can not be made easier or combined through technology. I doubt that!

I and most residents are asking for excellent services at less cost. No one is supporting diminished services!

Did CEO Pamela Davis diminish services in laying off 126 employees in the last week as was reported by your newspaper? I think she did a study and discovered excess fat she could shed. I do not think Ms. Davis would ever risk the reputation of her hospital by diminishing its superb services. She is an excellent administrator who schedules nurses for 36 hours knowing they will still get 40 per week. They get their hours and she avoids costly OT.

How come Chief David Dial can't learn a few tricks from someone as accomplished as Ms. Davis? Possibly because the City Council does not know how to pressure him. Neither is his former employee who is the City Manager and boss now, capable of pressuring him. Probably feels uncomfortable pushing around his X boss who helped him get an
$85,000 pension and gave him a good recommendation. Thus the need for an outsider to crack the whip like it has never been cracked before and force the reduction of costs at no diminishment of services.

Lay off 3% of the staff and force the remaining 97% to work 3% harder so we have 0 diminishment in services. Are u saying our city employees can't work 3% harder, Host Ted? Everyone including yourself can work 3% harder. When you were working from 7am to 1am to get this site on its feet, you were working 200% harder for no extra pay. I doubt you are an hourly employee...if you were, the Naperville Sun would have filed for bankruptcy! We are not asking City Officials to demand anyone match what you did. That may be impossible. We are only asking 3% more efficiencly...not 200% as you did to get this Blog Site rolling and successful. More efficiency to compensate for 3% lay-offs. Happens every day in Corporate America and cities who do not dare rasise taxes like Naperville.

Just like our bodies sometimes develop fat we don't need, our corporations and cities also develop fat they don't need. At some point you have to shed this excess fat and be more productive and healthy! Naperville needs to do the same. Since it is not willing to do it voluntarily some tough love may be required to accomplish diminished cost without diminished services! I hope you and Moderator Jim can help in this endeavor!!!

Why is it wrong for a police officer to make more than a Doctor? Why is it wrong for a person who is responsible for one of the wealthiest cities with some of the best schools in the Chicagoland area to make a really good paycheck? If you have been living in Naperville for the last 10 years you can at least be sure that the City Manager has had some impact on the economy of this town, which in turn has meant that the value of your home has gone up. If we were a city of 20,000 people, a City Manager earning $178K a year would be pretty unreasonable. Consider where we are folks. Now, if Marshall deserves the job on his qualifications and execution of it up to this point, I have no idea. That is not the point. Police pension doesn't matter either. It was a benefit. That is like saying you already chose one career so you can't have another. If you don't want pensions in government jobs, then we should be petitioning our government to establish 401K plans or something else that is more politically in line with benefits today.

Bill,

That is part of the problem. You don't care and you should.

These out-of-control public pensions are going to become a larger and larger burden upon us all and many families can no longer afford what it cost to subsidize these benefit plan today. People who have no pensions are forced to pay for other peoples pensions thru taxes. This is not right, fair, or just.

A cop retiring after 30 years, still in the prime of his work years, and being allowed to collect a pension is not right to start with. Allowing him to retire and then go back to work is not retirement and there should be no retirement benefit until he chooses to stop work. He has not choosen to stop work so he should not be collecting retirement.

The system is insane and needs reform. Maybe Marshall's biggest sin is that he made us all blatantly aware of how corrupt the police retirement program is. That doesn't change the fact that it is corrupt and needs reform. That doesn't give any of the right to condone it and shrug our shoulders and just say... oh well he earned it. That is a cop out, pardon the pun, that is shirking our responsibility as citizens. Being a good citizen means you stand up tall and demand change when you realize something is wrong in governement and right not the police pension system is wrong... very, very wrong.

Did Marshal earn his pension? YES

Does he deserve a shot at the City Manager job? YES

Is the salary for City Manager out of line? NO

Should the City Council perform due diligence and see who else is out there? YES

Should Mr. Marshal have his CV in front of other cities looking for Managers? YES

Should the City Council take over and find a new City Manager? Yes

Who is qualified on the City Council to find a City Manager? Boyajian, let him present the top three plus Marshal to the Council for selection!

Anonymous,
Very well said. I agree with you fully. It is almost like all of our council members, both Establishment and Napergatians, simply do not care.

They are happy to go to these bimonthly meetings, collect there $1000 in wages and benefits, and go home. It is like they are being paid off to shut up.

It is almost like our City Council are too lazy to investigate this corrupt police and fire pension plan and institute change. It is almost like they are afraid they will be reprimanded like DF was when he spoke out.

Even if the Napergatians don't have the numbers to institute change, it is inexcusable they are not at least voicing their opinions so the thousands of us who watch them on TV. know they have not deserted to the Brestal, Wehrli and Moser camps.

Where is Council Bob who popped his head on this blog site and stated he would answer questions. That lasted about 2 minutes before someone in City Hall shut him up. It just shows you even our City Council Members have been roboted by the Establishment Monarchy that runs the City of Naperville.

I hope something is done before no one can afford their taxes anymore because of these excessive pensions~!

I believe the Naperville Sun is our last hope. The city council members seem very hopeless...very useless...very selfish!!!