Newsweek is out with a new list of the nation's top 1,300 high schools, and Waubonsie Valley High School is the only one of the four public high schools serving Naperville on this list. In 2007, Neuqua Valley High School -- Indian Prairie School District's other high school -- was No. 607 on this list, but is absent from the initial 2008 rankings.
Congratulations to Waubonsie!! All public education facilities in Naperville are outstanding, and this is further proof.
How important is the ranking to you? Is it just another list? Do Naperville residents place too much emphasis on lists? Why is it that Neuqua, Naperville Central and Naperville North are not on this list?
UPDATE: On Friday, both districts put out e-mails saying they contacted Newsweek and were told that Neuqua Valley, Naperville Central and Naperville North high schools all were omitted from the list by mistake and will be included when an updated list is posted next week.
UPDATE NO. 2: The updated list shows Neuqua Valley ranked No. 910, Naperville North No. 927, Naperville Central No. 1,011 and Waubonsie Valley No. 1,107.
and yet WVHS is not good enough for Tall Grass...go figure.
WVHS was not good enough for Brookdale in 2006...go figure.
I think all of our Naperville/Aurora schools are great. Go Waubonsie! Thanks for representing us so well!!!!!
Also - about WVHS - just another indication of how positive a school this is
NSCAA/adidas® High School National and Regional Rankings
High School Spring Rankings Girls
National 4th Poll - April 29, 2008
Rank School
1 Parkview (Lilburn, Ga.)
2 TC Roberson (Asheville, N.C.)
3 Central Dauphin (Harrisburg, Pa.)
4 Waubonsie Valley (Aurora, Ill.)
5 Grandview (Aurora, Colo.)
State Champs 2007, undefeated in 31 games (30-0-1)
I doubt Newsweek or any organization can truly evaluate and compare the hundreds of thousands of schools in our country.
As far as I am concerned they shot darts.
No way can Neuqua go form 607 to not making the list...lol...in one lousy year!!! Did all the teachers quit? Did all the kids boycott school? Did the kids all suddenly start smoking pot with Nick Birkett?
Their survey is fabricated and they probably rank 1300 different schools each year to make everyone happy and increase their readership.
Sun Officials can not even monitor and control one City Hall in Naperville less than a mile away from their headquarters. Does anyone really believe Newsweek Officials can monitor every school in the country and rank them objectively or subjectively...give me a break...lol...?
If Newsweek can do all this and I am wrong, then Sun Officials are doing a very poor job in that they can not even monitor one out-of-control City Hall!
According to Newsweek, public schools were ranked according to a ratio devised by Jay Matthews: the number of Advanced Placement, Intl. Baccalaureate and/or Cambridge tests taken by all students at a school in 2007 divided by the number of graduating seniors. All of the schools on the list are in the top 5 percent of public schools measured this way.
This is a measure of the graduating senior class. And no, many of the same schools are on the list year after year. Waubonsie was also on the list in 2007. I guess its hard for some to believe that WV could be as good or even better than NV. Lets face it, we have a good district no matter what school you go to.
Don't forget WV's Grammy! I should say Grammy's plural!!!!!
By Anonymous on May 19, 2008 2:35 PM
"Does anyone really believe Newsweek Officials can monitor every school in the country and rank them objectively or subjectively...give me a break...lol...?"
_________________________________
Do I detect sour grapes? How 'bout envy?
OK, OK, I'll throw you a bone. Neuqua is just as good as Waubonsie.
Feel better?
I applaud Waubonsie for the well deserved honor, it's a great school. At the same time I can't help but wonder if maybe Neuqua was left off the list due to some type of error. It doesn't make sense that Neuqua would go from being #607 last year to falling out of the top 1,300 this year.
By Anonymous on May 19, 2008 1:45 PM
and yet WVHS is not good enough for Tall Grass...go figure.
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People like you anonymous 1:45 pm that keep stirring the pot have no idea what you are talking about.
I think all the schools in 203/204 or excellent. WVHS stands out this year -- hearty congrats are in order.
Way to go WVHS!! Thanks for representing us! I am a NV parent and am just as proud of your school! WVHS is an outstanding school, I am happy it is finally getting the recognition it deserves!
By Anonymous on May 19, 2008 1:45 PM
and yet WVHS is not good enough for Tall Grass...go figure.
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Another stupid comment. Have still not heard one TG resident claim that WVHS is a bad school (it is in fact obviously a great school that we probably did not need these ratings to confirm).
The only folks who have suggested WVHS is a bad school are those who have globally labeled TG as elitists and/or racists (and of course Dr. D by raising the entitlement comment in the first place, suggesting that WVHS is somehow perceived to be inferior to NVHS).
That *amn school board. They are at it again. They must have rigged the voting :)
Congratulations IPSD, teachers, students and parents of Waubonsie students.
Congrats and kudos WVHS!!!
PS, I hear rumors that US News & World Report is countering with the top 1300 High School sports stadiums. Unfortunately no D203 or D204 schools made it (I wonder why? lol) The list had an abnormally large representation from California, Texas, Ohio, WASHINGTON, Pennsylvania. There may be a subtle hint in there somewhere.... tear out the rusted metal seats. you never know, many sports are cash cows at the College level, might be another revenue stream waiting to be unearthed for District use!!! Invest a little, reap alot of potential benefits (and not just money).
1079 Is there even one single taxpayer who is happy with these results considering what we pay in taxes for the finest teachers and facilities that our money can buy? Give me a break!
1079 and the only Naperville area school on the list? What the hell is going on at NV and NN and NC? Not even on the list and WV was bested by 26 other Illinois schools to boot including no less than 6 CHICAGO PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS? Give me a break!
Thank goodness the list only included public schools. If all the private schools had also been listed one can only wonder how far further down WV would have been rated.
1079 and WV couldn't even beat out Vernon Hills, Libertyville, Buffalo Grove, Homewood Floosmoor, Prospect, or Hoffman Estates. Yet a bunch of idiot Napervillians are running around with their thumbs under their suspenders proud as peacocks. Give me a break!
Either these lists are a pile of rubbish and not worth the paper they are printed on, in which case all of the bragging becomes pointless, or the school board better damn well be adding some wording into the superintendent and principal contracts related to performance. If they can't do any better than this with all the extravagance we lavish upon them then it is time to show them to the door. Give me a break!
This is an interesting attention grabber, but it lacks details. On what basis was WVHS ranked so high? Was it strictly academic scores? Maybe the school board should investigate to see what they did right in WV's case and spread the wealth. Could it be WV has more experienced teachers? Is the same curriculum taught at both schools? I say collaborate and share the wealth among all students in the district.
Excuse me, Mr./Ms. Anonymous at 10:54.
You might want to pop a xanax and calm down a bit. While WV should be rightly proud of its inclusion on the list, this is hardly a scientific measure. As you might see from past lists, it varies from year to year.
Don't use this as an excuse to bash the School Boards of either 204 or 203. While our taxes are certainly not low, they are not out of line considering the extraordinary education that our children get from these great schools.
And by the way, watch your prejudices: The fact that you can't believe that six Chicago schools are on the list shows that you buy into media reports. There are some great public schools in Chicago.
I think it's very interesting this statistic is based on the number of AP tests TAKEN, and not AP tests PASSED. I think the rankings would change remarkably if they actually measured the students performance on the tests, not just the fact that they showed up to take it.
Oswego Lurker,
There are different definitions of passing an AP test. Some colleges require a 5 to gain credit at their institution and some others require only a 4 or a 3 (on a scale of 1 - 5). The point of the rankings is the number of students that are even qualified to take the test. You have to be taking AP classes to take the tests.
I want to correct those posters calling WVHS a naperville school. WVHS is in aurora and mostly comprised of kids from Aurora...at least for a little while longer :)
Mark,
Suggesting someone "pop a xanax" would be encouraging someone to violate a federal law and you should know better... unless of course you are popping xanax yourself which might help explain your rather cavalier attitude toward these the true value of these "rankings".
If and only if this list can actually be shown to contain some legitimate and objective scientific basis would there be any reason for pride on the part of the WV community. Right now it is just another list published by just another magazine with the sole purpose and motivation being to sell more magazines.
I'm sure every family who has a kid in any one of these listed schools, especially the 2008 graduating class are snapping copies up as memorabilia. Whoop die do!
For anyone caring to look beneath the surface on the issue of scientific and objective school rankings will agree that these printed pages would be better suited as toilet paper.
Anon 9:57,
Yes, I know how AP tests work, but you're missing my point. The ranking would be more relevant if it measured performance (in any form), instead of just population ratios. How about if they changed the measurement to "students scoring 3 or more on AP tests as a percentage student population"? That would be a more useful figure.
I can't believe adults in this community are fighting over this. What difference does it make that WV made it and others didn't. Don't recall when NN, NC or NV made the list that their was any question on the ranking. Those who question it show their true colors in regards to WV.
For all you Warrior students out there there, kudos to you. Many of us know what a great school it is. We didn't need a magazine article to tell us.
By Congrats WV on May 20, 2008 12:33 PM
I can't believe adults in this community are fighting over this. What difference does it make that WV made it and others didn't. Don't recall when NN, NC or NV made the list that their was any question on the ranking. Those who question it show their true colors in regards to WV.
For all you Warrior students out there there, kudos to you. Many of us know what a great school it is. We didn't need a magazine article to tell us.
_____________________________________
Thank you Congrats, I was about to make the same point before I saw your post. You summed it up for me.
While the 2008 report is not currently available; the following link is to a report I would use to get real data on any school in Illinois.
http://iirc.niu.edu/default.aspx?tsource=home
"Many of us know what a great school it is. We didn't need a magazine article to tell us."
Glad to see you are a "believer". What parent, what taxpayer would not WANT to believe their kids go to the best school, that they are getting REAL value for their tax dollars?
Any of us can go to dozens of small, rural towns across central and southern Illinois and we can talk to the people in any of these towns and we will find out that they also "believe" that their kids are getting as good as if not better education than anything delivered by NC, NN, NV, or WV. Believe that because it is true.
In my over 20 years in Naperville I haven't seen any compelling proof that has led me to believe that our schools are any better than AVERAGE other than we pay a lot more than average. Our kids could get an equal education at just about any other school or school district. SD203 and SD204 despite the relentless PR really do nothing more than provide our kids with a mediocre education experience.
Now, granted, we all wish in our heart of hearts that we really did have something special with our Naperville schools, but there is nothing to substantiate that desire other than a willingness to "believe".
"The Challenge Index was designed in part to undermine the view that schools with lots of rich kids are good, and schools with lots of poor kids are bad. I love pointing to the many schools on the NEWSWEEK list that are full of low-income students, and often rank higher than much more affluent rivals" Jay Matthews
http://www.newsweek.com/id/137415/page/1
As a high school teacher who's been around the block a few times, I taught at one of Newsweek's top schools back east. They selected 4 of our county's 23 high schools for this "honor." AS a mattter of fact, all 4 were in the top 100. All 23 high schools had relatively the same programs, same quality of teachers (we were asked to rotate among the schools every so often), etc... "We" really didn't pay much attention to this, and quite frankly, our students had more important things on their minds. "We" knew that Newsweek punched in a lot of numbers and figures to reach their conclusions, and sometimes even "we" wondered "If they only knew..."
to anonymous 5/20 2:38
"In my over 20 years in Naperville I haven't seen any compelling proof that has led me to believe that our schools are any better than AVERAGE other than we pay a lot more than average. Our kids could get an equal education at just about any other school or school district. SD203 and SD204 despite the relentless PR really do nothing more than provide our kids with a mediocre education experience."
I've been in Naperville 13 years and totally agree with you. No one wants to hear this, but it is so true. My spouse and myself always say Naperville is a mirage. The closer you take a look, you realize that there is nothing there. Its all hype.
To Anonymous poster @2:38PM
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. I can't speak in great detail for D204 but based on an extensive analysis we did of various studies here is what we found about both districts;
According to US News & World Report, Naperville Central and Naperville North high schools rank in the top three percent of high schools nationwide. The magazine recently published its "Best High Schools" edition, awarding a gold medals to one hundred schools across the country, a silver medal to 405 schools, and a bronze medal to 1086 schools. 204 did not have a school listed here.
In a study done by the Daily Herald across the thirty-four Chicagoland high school districts that were compared, this is what you will find:
Only two had more than fifty percent of students meeting college readiness benchmarks in all four subjects: Stevenson District 125 and Naperville Unit District 203. Stevenson had a composite score of 53%, at a cost of $134,000 for 11 years of education and NCUSD 203’s composite score was 51% with a cost of $101,000—25% lower than the top school. D204 came in 6th in performance and 28th lowest in cost.
Averaging the data for the next ten highest performing districts, we found that NCUSD 203’s costs were 15% lower and their test score 42% higher than the group average. NCUSD 203's costs were also lower than the state average of $105,970, as was D204's. Considering that we are in one of the most expensive areas in Illinois, this is quite a feat.
Only 11 of the combined Elementary/High School Districts had a lower combined cost than NCUSD 203 and their average composite ACT readiness score of 20.5% was 60% lower than Naperville CUSD 203.
We also did analysis of the USN&WR, Chicago Magazine studies, and the Illinois State report cards. All of these different studies use different criterion. We have full analysis and links to all the different studies here. You can find the D204 information in the original studies.
http://www.qualityeducation203.org/20080205referendum/costperformance_mediasurvey.shtml
Thom Higgins,
So, now we are to believe US News and World Report? Or just want to believe USN&WR because they rated NN and NC really high and why shouldn't we want to hear that?
Either one or both of these stories must be flawed if one rated two schools in the top 3 percent and the other story didn't even list them in the top 1300. Something is seriously wrong with somebodys data or method of calculation.
So go ahead and pick your favorite story and believe what you choose to believe.
The bottom line is the educators and the superintendents have their fingers and hands in this constantly all the way up to their armpits. It is such a murky, meddled with mess that there simply is no long term reliable data... which is exactly how they want it. They do not want us to be able to consistently and objectively evaluate our school or our district performance over time against anyone else because they are scared as hell of what it will show. Multiply that fear by every other principal and superintendent across the state and the result is a bunch of mostly meaningless numbers that people like you waste your time trying to analyze to come to a favorable conclusion that your money is being well spent and that your kids are getting a decent education.
The time you wasted doing all of this analysis would have been better spent helping your kids with their homework. I'm not about to put my faith and trust in any ratings produced by a reporter. Ratings produced through scientific research, yes would be meaningful but we have enormous work ahead of us eliminating all of the variability that currently exists both intrastate and interstate. There isn't even anything on the horizon that will truly provide us with the truthful and objective answers we should all need and want.
Until something is developed, be comfortable in your belief that your kids are getting a pretty average education in Naperville schools.
Congratulations WVHS. We're proud of all our schools, the teachers and the parents that contribute to these results.
To Anonymous @ 10:50PM
Ah yes, the old when you don't like the results of the study, criticize the study. We have multiple studies here, based on different criterion, and at least for D203, which was where our primary interest lies, all of the results show that D203 not only provides an excellent education, and they do it for less money than their peers.
Now, as far as you not trusting the product of "reporters", it is apparent you didn't bother to look at the methodology of the USN&WR study. Here it is;
The 2008 U.S.News & World Report America's Best High Schools methodology, developed by School Evaluation Services, a K-12 education data research business run by Standard & Poor's, is based on the key principles that a great high school must serve all its students well, not just those who are bound for college, and that it must be able to produce measurable academic outcomes that show the school is successfully educating its student body across a range of performance indicators.
I guess a research business run by Standard and Poor's isn't good enough for you. There is much more regarding the criterion at this link;
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2007/11/29/the-ranking-formula.html
The Herald study is simply a massive compilation of financial data combined with ACT College Readiness test results for specific districts. I have a hard time questioning the validity of their numbers. BTW if you look at their data, while 203 comes out looking great, and 204 is up there too, if you look at the surrounding school districts, many that spend more than us and have comparable socioeconomic characteristics, they all have lower test results. You can find similar statistic's in the Illinois State Board of Election Report Cards.
Reading your post it seems you are only interested in bashing the school districts. It's a popular sport with some I know, but fortunately the overwhelming majority of people see it for what it is.
Thom Higgins,
Your words, not mine, that I do not like the results of the study. What I don't like or appreciate is someone else assuming what I do or do not like.
Asking for accountability related to the educational performance demonstrated by our kids in our schools is bashing the school district? Af far as popular sport there are also a lot of relentless, brainless cheerleaders in Naperville who are totally clueless and blind to a lot that is really going on in our schools. I sincerely hope you aren't one of them.
The fact remains that if we focus just on the USN&WR and SES and dig a little it becomes readily apparent that even SES is wishy-washy in that they claim the results of their own number crunching are just "observations". They inconsistently use a half dozen different data sources reported from all the states. The use and legal definition of the data being collected from all of the states varies widely. Calendar years, school year, fiscal years, covered periods, reporting periods, beginning of year, end of year... just trying to find consistency among how each class year is measured and defined is all over the place. And this is but just one example.
While you seem comfortably satisfied in relying on such flawed and inconsistent data in terms of your children's education I guess it would be appropriate to aks if you personally needed to receive medication, say for cancer treatment, would you also accept a medical study that was conducted this poorly?
Seems to me that those parents that don't want to attend WVHS that make up the NSFOC and are mostly from the TG and WE neighborhoods can now rest easy.
Your property values won't go down and your kids will get just as good education as they would at any other D203 or D204 school. Now you have a bullet point to put on your real estate sell sheet when you go to sell your house because you can't stand the thought of going to WVHS.
Let's be honest NSFOC it was always about boundaries and not wanting to attend WVHS. I love irony!!!
Not to take anything away from WVHS, but this study is misguided. It ONLY takes into account the number of students who take advanced tests. It in no way measures their scores on the test or the academic record of a school. For instance a small rural school with 100 graduating students can mandate that each student takes an AP test in order to graduate. The average score on the test could be a 1 or 2. A larger school with 700 graduating students could have 400 students take an AP test and have an average score of 3 or 4 and the smaller school would rank higher then then the large school. The small schools score would be 1.0 and the large schools score would be .571. Again I believe that all schools that serve Naperville are superior to many schools in the nation, so please don't take this as saying WVHS is a bad school.
Anonymous @ 8:56Am
More slamming the data and requests for accountability by you. Fine, since all the these nationally recognized studies fail to live up to your personal standards, please tell the readers what statistics and criterion you would consider to be a valid reflection of our schools academic performance.
Also please show us examples regarding your claim below;
"They inconsistently use a half dozen different data sources reported from all the states. The use and legal definition of the data being collected from all of the states varies widely."
Specifically how is the data used ""inconsistently", and how does the "use and legal description of the data" vary wildly?
Lastly, I have to say that my impression is that you are not at all interested in an honest conversation. For you to try to claim that the criterion used by USN&WR are only "observations" and to then further attempt to confuse the issue by bringing up the red herring of differing years and periods, is a willful misstating the studies actual criterion and process, and a dishonest attempt to discredit the study, as anyone who bothers to read the studies criterion here will see.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2007/11/29/the-ranking-formula.html
We are all entitled to our opinion, but we are not entitled to attempt to mislead people by hoping they are too busy to read the supporting documents. Shame on you sir.
Thom Higgins,
Nice try, but I'm not going to do your work for you. You are on your own for that. I did my own research and didn't post anything false, misleading, or untruthful. So go ahead and whine all you want... everything I have posted is substantiated elsewhere. Blame yourself if you don't know where to look for the answers.
If you had ACTUALLY taken the time to go to the SES website you would know full well, as I do, that SES clearly states that these are "observations". Their actual words, not mine. SES also clearly states on their web sites the various data sources they relied upon. No red herrings and I'm not making any of this up. I fairly quoted my source in my earlier post and anyone can go check it our for themselves.
Let's not forget that the 2008 "list" is based upon the 2005-2006 school year and students who were in 12th grade and who are now finishing their sophomore year in college. The kids actually attending these schools today would have been in 7th, 8th, Freshman, and Sophomore years in 2005-2006 and their ability to perform either better or worse on the criteria is not reflected in their schools current "standings".
Also interesting to note is that 10 states were completely omitted from the study, as were Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Virgin Islands, and all of the eleven other territories that make up our nation. Over 9 percent of the high schools in our nation were not even included in the study. It is anyones guess as to how well or how poorly any one of them would have performed had 100 percent of the high schools in our nation been included in this study.
This is just one more example of a flaw with this study, there are others. A reasonable person would understand by now that it is far, far from being a scientifically or statistically valid study. It is a feel good news piece. Nothing more. Nothing less.
No slamming, no bashing, and no personal opinion either. I'm just repeating what can readily be found in many other sources.
It seems to me that if any of the other three area high schools was alone on this list, no one (including the eminent editorial staff) would have seen fit to question or minimize that feat. Why is Waubonsie treated differently?
Response from Naperville Sun editors:
Today's editorial praised Waubonsie for the achievement, and yesterday's news story reported the ranking in a straight-forward manner. The editorial didn't diminish the Waubonsie ranking and if it was any other of the four high schools serving Naperville the writer would have made the same point: all of Naperville's public high schools are excellent, and one survey using one set of criteria shouldn't exclude other surveys that use different criteria to determine excellence.
It is great to Waubonsie Valley on this list. A big shout out to the teachers, administration, and students for a job well done.
And for those of you criticizing the nature of the poll, that it was only done on the basis of AP testing and programs, let me tell you something. The national press has the right to come up with any criteria that they want to in making a poll such as this, and if you don't like the criteria, why don't you make your own poll? This is a matter of AP PROGRAMS, not whether you think your school is better than Waubonsie. You have every right to make up your own criteria and hold your own little popularity contest on who's the best area school. But don't bash the national media for choosing criteria that you don't agree with.
Anonymous
I think this statement of yours really "tells the tale";
everything I have posted is substantiated elsewhere. Blame yourself if you don't know where to look for the answers.
Translation; I'm pulling all of this out of my a** and couldn't substantiate my claims if my life depended on it.
Yup, you apparently want us to believe you know more than a Standard and Poor's data research organization,among others, who established the criteria, compiled the data, and conducted the various studies, and, based on your own "research" that you are unwilling to share with readers here, but is "substantiated elsewhere", the findings by these said experts who do this for a living are incorrect, and, or, invalid.
Do you really expect readers to accept the truthfulness of your statements/opinions on faith alone? Why, because you said so? Are you really telling us that you are more knowledgeable on this subject than the many people who work for the various organizations that produced all these different studies?
Sure, everyone is gonna buy that......
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
National "studies" are nice, but don't begin to capture the reality that kids experience on the ground. If we are so concerned with quality, why is this the first year that the top 5% of graduating seniors weren't recognized at commencement? Apparently next year, we won't even have a valedictorian and salutatorian and the only student speaker at graduation ceremonies will be the class president. Another victory for popularity contests.
Lauding our test scores doesn't count for much if the tests themselves have been dumbed down so more will do well. (I'd love to see how a randomly selected sample of today's juniors would do on an ACT test from 1980.) For subjects that have a defined order of classes, like foreign language and math, many of the students responsible for our high scores are skipping over classes because they are too easy.
I am embarrassed by the small-mindedness of the Sun Editorial. I didn't see any criticism of list criteria for any "best city" lists that Naperville appeared in, just rampant praise about what a great town this is. But when it's something commendable about Waubonsie Valley High School, the negativity comes out. Shame on you. Next time publish the facts and keep your small-minded editorials to yourselves.
Students must pay for the AP test. It is completely voluntary. Nowhere does it talk about the results of the test - that's not what is being measured.
What is being measured is that many more students at Waubonsie have completed higher level AP classes and have chosen to try and get college credit by taking (and paying for) the AP test. Those student numbers were greater than any of the other 3 Naperville schools.
That's it.
What it does measure is Waubonsie's staff and administration raising the bar and preparing their students for higher level classes, and encouraging those same students to take AP tests for college credit.
That's it.
Congratulations to WVHS students and staff ...
You should be proud!
(Just as I am sure that North, Central, and NVHS have other rankings/surveys/awards they are proud of.)
Anonymous @9:36 AM
Amen to your comments. WVHS students, staff, and parents, should be proud.
"Survey says Waubonsie one of nation's top schools"
But before you go singing any praise, be sure to read the fine print and make sure you understand what was actually "studied".
So next year we all chip in and pay for every single one of the 12th graders at WV to take the test and then we will come out number one in the US? Then we can say golly gee boys and girls because you all took the test WV is now the number one school in the nation? It is as simple as that and we are supposed to be proud of something in terms of this so called study?
Excuse me while I go throw up...
Once again - the list discusses the top 1300 schools with the most percentage of students taking the AP test. Students cannot TAKE the AP test without being in an AP CLASS. They cannot be in an AP CLASS if they are not prepared to take such an ADVANCED CLASS. They cannot take an ADVANCED CLASS unless their teachers in elementary, middle and beginning of high school prepare them for their classes. So...fork out your money - your child will not be able to take the test until they meet the criteria. The study measures how many students meet those criteria.
That's it - once again.
It's not just about taking a test. It's the idea that kids that are challenged during high school through AP classes have a higher chance of completing college compared to those that do not take AP classes. The idea is based on the research that being challenged in high school is a better indicator of college success than test scores, class ranking, etc (typical measures of college success). If kids are challenged even if they don't do well in AP classes they will perform better in college. The ranked schools apparently provide that challenge.
Not every school requires kids to be prepared for AP classes in the traditional manner to enroll. Some schools allow for children that want to be challenged with an AP load the opportunity without the usual requirements. My opinion is that American schools perform so poorly on an international level that any attempt to measure which schools really challenge kids is a good thing. Standards of American education have become so low and we still pat ourselves on the back when we reach the low bar that is set. We feel good about good districts and American children are less prepared to compete internationally.
Now that we know that the list will be updated to include other schools in the area, let's see how great this ranking will become now.
What will you say when the achievement test results for this year are in - all tests required to be taken in English for the first time in modern history. No Child Left Behind will be leaving WVHS behind right? How is this situation being managed?
Neuqua comes out on top. Out ranking Naper North, Central and Waubonsie or does it?
Take a look closer they are dropping in ranking each year as compared to the last. Why?
A drop in rank could be obtained if less students are taking the AP test each year at Neuqua.
Another reason may very likely be because the competition is getting tougher each year. Last year to get a rank of say 6oo perhaps meant 1/2 the kids took AP (made up # for Example). This year to get that same rank of 600 the school may have to have say 3/4 of kids take the test. This can be due to the fact that more schools are participating. Neuqua could have the same ratio of test scores/students yet drop in rank because more schools are doing better each year, thus changing the placement on the list
What I said earlier still stands. This is a junk list and isn't worth the ink or the paper it is printed on.
WV has now dropped from 1079 to 1107.
NN, NC, and NV were all accidentally omitted from the original list? Out of the tens of thousands of other high schools how many others were accidentally omitted? We already know that at least 9 per cent of all high schools in the nation were deliberately omitted from the list. A huge bias was show by not including any private high schools in the study and then even more bias was introduced by excluding some public high schools, like IMSA in Aurora and University High in Urbana, because they were considered "too elite". The net result is that what is being billed and sold as the top 1300 high schools in the U.S. really is nothing but an inflated list that deliberately misleads people into believing where their school stands is true and accurate.
If a true total list was ever compiled it is anyones guess if any or all Naperville high schools would be on or off the list. Obviously other schools are finding themselves missing from the list and or questioning the data used which helps explain, in part, why WV fell from 1079 to 1107. It is open to speculation how many other errors were made within the 91 percent of high schools intended to be included in this study. It is further open to speculation what would happen to all of the current standings if the other 9 percent of high schools which were deliberately omitted from the study were included. It is even further open to speculation what would happen if the authors of the study had exercised some intellectual honesty and actually included all public high schools instead of showing bias towards the public high schools which truly are the best of the best. Lop of the best of the best. Lop off all of the private. What remains is the vast sea of mediocracy and then we are supposed to that these are the best of the best? Who is kidding who?
And then we still have to go back to the very basis of what the list is supposed to measure and represent in the first place and ask ourselves if we agree that this is or is not even close to being a true measure of what constitutes a "top U.S. high school"?
The list may be a sure winner for Newsweek. It has given Newsweek a ton of publicity and driven thousands to their web site. Apparently it has also given a lot of people some basis of pride in their local high school. While having pride in ones local high school is commendable I'm not convinced this study has any real basis to be a source of that pride.
Boy this is getting tiresome.
The Newsweek poll is one of many different education polls, all using various criteria. If you are asking which HS's have the largest percentage of students that are in AP classes and take the test(you don't have to take it I believe), and you believe that it is reasonable to exclude private and admissions based schools as they get to pick only the highest performers, then the study has some relevance to you. It is a reasonable belief that a higher percentage of students talking AP classes, will lead to a higher level of education for the students.
QE203.org has done a detailed analysis of various studies(especially the Daily Herald and USN&WR), that rate 204 and 203 schools. link here;
http://www.qe203.org/20080205referendum/costperformance_mediasurvey.shtml
While it is more oriented to 203, there are links to the various studies and you can find the 204 data easily. Take a look.
Bottom line? Naperville schools are truly excellent, especially the 203 HS's. Looking at all the different studies in totality, you will see that the griping you read here about how flawed the studies are and how mediocre our schools are, is more of the same from the "I hate public schools" folks, nothing sets them off more than good news regarding our schools.
Thom Higgins,
Newsweek and USN&WR can do all of the so called studies they want. Let's not forget that the articles they publish are motivated to drive sales. No different than the Naperville Sun filling the sports pages with lots of pictures of local elementary and high school teams... the parents love to see their kids and their schools and the newspaper folks know that translates into more papers sold.
These are not scientific studies, not even close. Yet they sell the results as "the top of the class" and "The complete list of the 1,300 top U.S. high schools." And then after the blazing headline there is all the fine point. This is simply false advertising at best even if we could agree that this study actually measured something meaningful and that these measures are indicative of what represents the top high schools. Are you that gullible to believe anything that a Newsweek reported anounces to be the gospel truth and you do not have any intellectual curiosity to make your own determination?
Go look at the Lincoln Park High School web site and you will see that they are bragging that they are "Newsweek's #1 rated school in Illinois" Maybe in their haste to find their own ranking at number 88 they missed Northside Academy beating them out at number 14? Regardless there are 8 Chicago Public High Schools in the list of the top 1,300 and every single one of these CPS operates with selective admission programs. They are allowed to pick the best of the best among tens of thousands of Chicago students yet in our local area neither IMSA nor a private school like Benet Academy meet the criteria to be included in such a list?
Go ahead and believe what you may, believe what you want. I still maintain this list is advertised falsely and is very misleading with regard to which are truly the best or top schools in our nation.
How can anyone accept Northside Adademy, rated at number 14 in the entire country is better than IMSA or University High when IMSA and University High weren't even given a shot at the list and were automatically excluded because a reporter's opinion was that they were "too elite"? Yet the advertising of these so called results lead the casual reader to actually believe that Northside is better or rated higher than IMSA or University High which simply is not true.
"Top" means top. "Complete list" means the complete list. Newsweek should be ashamed for having published such a biased and misleading story.
Anonymous,
Blah, blah, blah. As I've said before there are a host of studies, all with different criteria. Don't like the Newsweek one? fine. There are all the others, and interestingly, our schools do really well on all of them. So, once again, if you think the various criteria used in the Newsweek, USN&WR, The Daily Herald, etc., studies are flawed, and you are smarter than all of them, and can come up with study of your own that will have superior results, please edify us. Otherwise it is as I have said previously. You just won't acknowledge that Naperville schools are something special.
As for the Newsweek study being unscientific or deceptive, they prominently place this link on the results page;
http://www.newsweek.com/id/137421
which is a story of the kind of schools deemed to elite to be on their list. also there is this in their extensive FAQ
Question; Why don't I see famous public high schools like Stuyvesant in New York City or Thomas Jefferson in Fairfax County, Va., on the NEWSWEEK list?
Answer; We do not include magnet or charter high schools that draw high concentrations of top students whose average SAT or ACT scores significantly exceed the highest average for any normal enrollment school in the country....The Challenge Index is designed to honor schools that have done the best job in persuading average students to take college level courses and tests. It does not work with schools that have no, or almost no, average students. The idea is to create a list that measures how good schools are in challenging all students, and not just how high their students' test scores are.
Thom Higgins,
Blah, blah, blah. Next time reading and thinking before you post.
"Answer; We do not include magnet or charter high schools that draw high concentrations of top students whose average SAT or ACT scores significantly exceed the highest average for any normal enrollment school in the country..."
Really, then why were all 8 Chicago Public high schools not excluded from the "study"?
Why were 3 out of 4 Naperville high schools originally left out of the study?
This study has enormous flaws and more holes than swiss cheese.
Think about your own lack of credibility when you grasp at straws like this to try to "prove" that Naperville schools "are something special."
Think about how many people actually move out of Naperville because they do not want their children to attend 203 or 204 high schools. Yes, it is happening.
Think about what we pay in property taxes, most of which goes to the school district, and explain why thousands of Naperville residents pay additional tuition so their children will not attend 203 or 204 high schools. And while you are contemplating those reasons think about whether or not all of these thousands of high school students would increase or decrease the current level of performance shown by students. Further consider how well the 203 and 204 high schools would perform if all the alternative high schools did not exist and these students had to be accommodated in the existing high schools.
So keep grasping at straws. Keep dragging out all of the unscientific studies you want. Do all of your own home brewed analysis. Come up with all of your own conclusions. Relish the rationalizations that you have justified in your own mind. Sleep comfortably at night knowing what you know.
I understand why you think the way you do. One of these days you too will finally realize what cripples your thinking and you will wake up to the fact there there is just so much that you don't know you don't know about Naperville schools.
Anonymous,
Now you're just being silly.
I'm the one pointing to a variety of studies all with differing sets of criterion.
You are the one who is guilty of this;
Do all of your own home brewed analysis. Come up with all of your own conclusions. Relish the rationalizations that you have justified in your own mind. Sleep comfortably at night knowing what you know.
Those are your words, and your actions sir.
As I said before, fine, forget Newsweek if you want. The fact remains the two 203 HS's earned a Silver nationally in the USN&WR study. 203's HS's came in 2nd, and 204 HS's placed 6th, in the Daily Herald study of 34 Chicagoland HS districts. Combine that with the Chicago Magazine study where 203's HS's came in first and third in cost effectiveness per ACT score, and lastly, look at the Illinois State board of education report cards with costs and ACT scores. If this isn't enough, well then I'm sorry, nothing will satisfy you. But realize there is no escaping the fact that it is you who is guilty of;
Doing all of your own home brewed analysis.
Coming up with your own conclusions.
Relish the rationalizations that you have justified in your own mind.
Sleep comfortably at night knowing what you know.
As far as your claim that people are moving out of Naperville because the schools are deficient, I'll pen a response as soon as I....can....stop....laughing....!!!!!!
Face it, you can post here till you're 80 how you think the schools stink, but the facts remain; We have excellent schools, and the citizens support them as evidenced by the defeat of those Taxpayers Ticket yokels,(including a sitting board member,Mike Davitt), and more recently, the overwhelming passage of 203's construction referendum.
So at least in D203 where I reside, the people who live to attack public education have lost the argument. The majority of residents aren't interested in this kind of anti-public school propaganda.
Here's some more points of interest for Anonymous to disagree with. From D203.
• Highest overall State test scores among large
PreK-12 (unit) school districts in Illinois
• Fifty-four National Merit Finalists (Class of 2007),
the highest number in District history
• Forty-seven National Merit Semifinalists in the
Class of 2008 represent 6% of the State total, while
the District student enrollment is less than 1%
of State
• Class of 2008 achieved highest ACT scores in
District history (25.1), with 99% of students taking
ACT (college entrance) exam
• Graduation rate of 96%
• Both high schools in the top ten public high schools
in Illinois (excluding public schools in Chicago with
selective admissions, i.e., “magnet” schools) on state
PSAE exam (Chicago Tribune, Fall 2007)
• Both high schools rated “silver,” in top 2-3% of
public high schools in the nation (U.S. News &
World Report, Fall 2007)
• Student achievement well-above state average, with
91.6% (reading) and 93.3% (math) of all students
achieving a “meets” or “exceeds” on State tests
• Our high schools ranked first and third in a Chicago
Magazine measure of school achievement (ACT)
relative to per pupil student spending, when
compared to all 233 non-magnet Chicago-area high
schools (Chicago Magazine, Fall 2007)
• On TIMMS-R (1999), District eighth grade students
scored first in the world in science and sixth in the
world in mathematics, among the 38 participating
countries and consortiums
And what really stinks is 203 does it for less;
District spending per pupil is $9,881, only $393
above the state average of $9,488 (2007 State
Report Card)
• According to a Fall 2007 Daily Herald analysis of
94 suburban school districts for the ten school years
1996-1997 through 2005-2006, District 203 was
reported to have:
o Second highest test scores at the 16th lowest cost
per student
o Total revenue that was 25.6% below that of the
average district
o Administrative cost (as percent of total revenue)
that was 41.9% below the average district
o Low debt - among the lowest of Illinois districts
Gee anonymous, sure make me want to back my bags!!!!!!
Thanks for proving my point. Lot's of hand picked examples that only prove 203 schools have some accolades. So does every other school. Go ahead and find me some examples of schools that don't have something to brag about.
Every school lobby is filled with trophy cases as testament to how great they are. But is it greatness or mear mediocracy disguised as greatness in the rush to bestow praise and awards and trophies on everyone who participates?
Truly excellent? Not from any of the examples that were hand picked and let's face it most of the examples don't even come close to measuring educational performance.
You want to talk academic excellence then you better have some first, second, or third place examples. And you better have them examples consistently over time to demonstrate that this is sustainable excellence. Otherwise you are just as guilty as the rest of playing a game of smoke and mirrors with episodic and statistical aberrations.
Truly gifted and intelligent students will find a way to succeed even when surrounded by a mediocre education system and mediocre teachers. It is no different than truly gifted athletes winning a game despite having a mediocre coach. These same student would excel anywhere.
Produce a study that shows us compellingly that the 203 system allowed these students to perform at their very best. Or show us a study that shows us compellingly that the 203 system pulled the average students into a higher level of performance.
Just don't tell me a whole bunch of students did really well on AP tests because they would have done just as well anywhere else. The fact that they live in Naperville proves nothing.
Anonymous
As I stated before, this is getting silly. All of the statistics, all of these studies, supposedly mean nothing. Schools don't make any difference, all schools have the same results, blah, blah, blah.
You complain of no first, second, or third place examples? Please re-read my prior posts. Your ability to ignore the facts is truly amazing. Or do you require our schools to be in the top three for the entire country?
You can keep trying to make the argument that all of this is meaningless, but in light of all the many accomplishments of D203 and D204, you are just making yourself look foolish. Perhaps that's why you don't have the courage to post your name. So much easier to throw stones when you post anonymously.
Anonymous on May 27, 2008 3:01 PM
After reading your last posting I wonder if your point is that District 203 (and 204?) are nothing more than mediocre schools taught by mediocre teachers, but the students themselves are truly gifted and intelligent?
Was your line, "These same students would excel anywhere" a compliment to the D203/4 students or am I missing your point completely, in which case I assume you mean that everyone, students and teachers alike, are average?
I agree with prev Anonymous 3:01 PM in that 203 and 204 and good school districts but not excellant. Excellence means different things to different folks. Surely these districts can be viewed as smart choices for this area but excellent, I'm not sure about that.
The fact that the scores are higher than some other schools and they rank better than some others in the area does not make it excellent in my opinion. Sure a good option because it's better than the neighbors so to speak.
Anan 3:01, how do you define excellence and what school meets that criteria? We all have different standards and definitions and I am curious as to how you would propose to measure and quantify excellance. While current rankings may not completely measure all the variables that go into defining great schools at least it may provide it's readers with a direction in which to further their research or inquiry.
To Average Student,
Yes! Yes! Yes!
We definitely have many gifted, talented and highly intelligent students amongst us. Their sheer natural desire, curiosity, and ability to learn would prevail even if they were transfered to a school in a third world country where they couldn't even speak the language. Yes, we have exceptional students and they trully have the ability to excel anywhere.
Our school districts are not randomly populated by people. People consciously choose to live where they do. Moving east to west we have SD 203 (Naperville), SD 204 (Indian Prairie), SD 131 (East Aurora). How or why is it that SD 203 and 204 are perceived by some to be such "good schools" and then the perception is that SD 131 is one of the poorest performing schools in the state?
How well our schools perform reflect more on the people who choose to live in Naperville than the ability of our education system. If these same people moved elsewhere it is not reasonable to expect that their children will all of a sudden perform at a lower level and as part of corporate life many families do relocate in and out of Naperville. I'm willing to make a bold guess that the communities people came from and the communities that people go to on corporate relocations will be similar to Naperville in many ways. We can look at all of the major cities in America and all of the suburbs clustered around each of them and with a little digging fairly easily determine which suburbs are pretty much a close clone of what we have here in Naperville. No not exact, but pretty close. And you know what? If we study the schools in these communities we will find that they all pretty much perform just like the schools in 203 and 204. All very much average in our own little peer group.
Yet every community has families with students who have difficulty learning. There are a variety of reasons why these children do not do well in school. Some are failing, some will drop out. Some are sliding through the system with "C's and D's". Some are spoiled under achievers.
Yet these are the students we really need to care about. These are the students who need help and guidance or they will fail and they are too young to realize the lifelong consequences they face.
Don't tell me about the gifted students who the teachers have to chase just to keep up them as a measure of educational performance. Tell me about the kids we saved in 203 and 204. Tell me that we have zero dropouts in 203 and 204. Tell me that 100% of our graduates go on to college. Tell me that 100% of our graduates are prepared to receive a "C" or higher with college level work. Tell me that 100% of our graduates become college graduates.
If you are prepared to tell me that and factually support such claims I will start to believe that we truly have excellent schools. Until then I will remain steadfast in my belief that we are given nothing more than the mere illusion of excellence.
Anonymous,
Regarding this statement of yours;
Tell me that 100% of our graduates are prepared to receive a "C" or higher with college level work. Tell me that 100% of our graduates become college graduates..... If you are prepared to tell me that and factually support such claims I will start to believe that we truly have excellent schools.
Forgetting for a moment that saying that an excellent high school will somehow manage to have a 100% college graduation rate which is farcical, and I will guarantee has never happened, how about this factually supported claim that 51% of D203 students passed all four categories in the ACT College readiness test that is predicated on a "B" grade, not a "C" grade. 90% passed the English portion, 77% passed Social Studies, 71% passed math, and 56% passed biology. Remember this is for a "B" grade not a "C" grade.
What's interesting is the results for many schools that have quite similar socioeconomic environment but do not do as well as D203.
Let's start with the easy one D204, with a score of 38%, same town and the D204 area is probably a bit wealthier on average that the D203 area, or how about these others?
Wheaton-Warrenville 41%
Barrington 40%
Geneva 36%
Glen Ellyn 29%
Elmhurst 30%
St. Charles 30%
Now these communities are certainly comparable on a socioeconomic basis, so please tell us what the difference is if not the schools?
If we were to believe you that the schools here don't make a real difference, then I guess we need our kids to, as you say, "move elsewhere" where they will magically bring up the scores wherever they go.
Link for above stats;
http://www.qualityeducation203.org/20080205referendum/documents/chapter_10_sorted_rank_dh_data.pdf
Looks like the list has been corrected. Sur