If you're a glass-half-full person, you can view the construction bidding process for Metea Valley High School with optimism and say that Indian Prairie School District 204 is on track to build the school for $4 million less than the $101.7 million estimate.
But if you're a glass-half-empty person, you'll be concerned to hear that the lowest bid for the electrical work came in $4 million -- or 50 percent -- more than expected.
Among the complications and concerns cited by potential and actual bidders: obtaining bonding; the massive size of the project and the relatively short amount of time they'd have to complete it; and subcontractors struggling to work around each other and complete their respective projects in the same areas of the building at the same time, a story in today's Sun reports.
These sound like predictable problems given the timetable to open by August '09.
One hopes all stays on track and the building comes in on time and under budget. (Mind you, change orders tend to alter the actual costs quite a bit by the time all is said and done. Sometimes change orders reduce costs. Usually not.)
What do you think: How likely is it that Metea will open on time and within budget?
What do you think: How likely is it that Metea will open on time and within budget?
The question is moot.....not even worthy of discussion. Over $4.0M on one end, over $4.0 on another end......they will build it and we will pay, end of story.
"How likely is it that Metea will open on time and within budget?"
This third high school has been a fiasco from the start. Why would things start to suddenly go smoothly? I don't believe it has a chance of opening in 2009 and staying on budget.
I had an interesting conversation with a retired executive recently. His son went into the trades and had a plumbing business with 25 employees exclusively working on new construction. Because of the building slowdown, the son laid off all 25 workers, closed the business and took a job in a different field as an industrial parts buyer.
If subcontractors are laying off workers and closing their doors completely, how can Dist 204 end paying higher prices?
I find it deeply troubling that D204’s construction manager for MVHS says that they plan to spend any anticipated savings that result from the bidding process. The Board has already authorized spending of over $20M MORE than the approved $124.7M voted on by the taxpayers of the district (funded by taking cash premiums at the expense of less favorable interest rates on the bonds). The Board should be attempting to build the school as economically as possible, with the goal of returning whatever funds may be left.
Practically speaking, though, I think we all know how this will end. Given the commitment to open the school by August of 2009, the Board will be approving change orders by the millions as construction progresses to avoid yet another black eye of missing this commitment. At that point, the estimated $4M in savings will be long gone.
And we'll all be the proud owners of a $200M school!
No surprise here. I fear that D204 will not only pay about $15 million extra in expedite fees (versus their $5M number talked up), but they will still be way over budget and still miss the deadline. But that is just me. When you don't have enough competitive bidding, make poor decisions - like a school location far from where the people live, and are dug in about alternatives, this is what happens. We need for the state to take over the district and a new school board. The cost of this unneeded high school may run nearly $400 million over a project life of 15-20 years the way things are going. Every taxpayer in the district will pick up the tab.
Its a matter of degrees IMO.
The school will not be complete by Aug 09 (external buildings, sports fields, all the trimmings etc are scheduled to be under construction in 2009 while the school is open)
Will the School OPEN to students in August 2009? I dont know. If the classrooms are deemed "safe" by city of Aurora inspectors then yes. If not, then I guess they could bring in a massive fleet of trailers and hold classes in them if necessary "to open the school to students" by Aug 09.
Cost? it will be more..... However any extraneous damages above and beyond legal fees awarded to Brach/Brodie will come directly out of the taxpayer pockets in the form of higher taxes/special assessment. Totally Sick!!!
Same as what MEW said.
By Greg Forrest on June 26, 2008 1:55 PM
Its a matter of degrees IMO.
Will the School OPEN to students in August 2009? I dont know. If the classrooms are deemed "safe" by city of Aurora inspectors then yes. If not, then I guess they could bring in a massive fleet of trailers and hold classes in them if necessary "to open the school to students" by Aug 09.
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I don't see where trailers are needed. We already have the caspacity to handle the bubble of students. In fact I would love to see the acttions taken. Not a single trailer would be acquired in my view. We have caacity for about 9500+ students. The current projection is 8900 or less. Trailers? NOT.
Same as what MEW and D&S said.
With that, if you think we need a new school (me) and you're OK with the Eola location (me), and you've mentally blocked out the BB "Sword of Damocles" hanging over our heads (me), it's really exciting to see all the activity taking place. I look forward to days when I don't have to take the train downtown so on my way in to Oak Brook I can drive by the site and chart the progress.
The school will open in the fall of 2009, as promised. And many in the Southern portion of the district, (that won't even be going to Metea), will continue to b*tch and moan about every little thing all along the way.
good point. valid statements
I agree with you, we do not need to open the school in 2009 and that there is room for all 2009 Highschool students in the current 2 campuses (WV and NV)
my point was the SB could still hit their "comittment" of opening MVHS even if the class rooms were not fully ready by bringing in trailers. they only said "open to students" they did not say open to students in the permanent structures"
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By Where we going on June 27, 2008 9:34 AM
I don't see where trailers are needed. We already have the caspacity to handle the bubble of students. In fact I would love to see the acttions taken. Not a single trailer would be acquired in my view. We have caacity for about 9500+ students. The current projection is 8900 or less. Trailers? NOT
By MH on June 27, 2008 1:38 PM
The school will open in the fall of 2009, as promised. And many in the Southern portion of the district, (that won't even be going to Metea), will continue to b*tch and moan about every little thing all along the way.
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Its a good thing otherwise the lemmings would have taken us all over the cliff.......
The school is already over budget when you consider the wasted funds that could have been invested on our kids and the price paid for the land on Eola.
So in answer to the Sun's question about how likely the project will be done on time and on budget I would say unlikely for both but stay tuned to see how Metzger and Daschner spin the delays and cost over runs. They are masters at deception and just as they were open to all property options when Midwest Gen pulled out and they plowed ahead with the AME "gift" they'll continue to spend our tax referrendum like drunken monkeys unless they're stopped.
Hope everyone remembers these characters when the next board elections are up so we can get some board members that we respect and trust in office.
Is anyone still sickened by the board's purchase of the Eola AME property without an appraisal? The board knows the market right?? Well, check out the recent purchase of 23 acres of land near Eola and Liberty by the park district for $4M. Thats roughly $174/acre. Had the board taken say a few days to get an appraisal the $50K plus excess paid per acre would have saved another $4M of tax payer money. But hey why bother since the pockets are deep in 204 and the economy is strong.
Perhaps the rush to buy was also motivated by the agenda of the board to build on Eola and not consider less costly alternatives.
So there is no way we'll be on "budget" since they've already over-spent on land, electricity, legal bills, and who knows what else.
This team is a real show to watch. The spending spree continues. Time to get some real leaders in place who respect the dollars we're paying and who show some fiscal responsibility.
District 204 has once again achieved the designation of "Financial Recognition" from the Illinois State Board of Education. This is the highest rating of financial strength a school district can achieve.
The Illinois State Board of Education annually reviews the finances for each school district in the state and then releases its Financial Profile rating for each district. The state's goal is to objectively assess the financial health of all districts. This is the third year that District 204 has achieved the highest financial rating.
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All of you can keep moaning and groaning and complaining how there is a conspiracy and the SB is corrupt. Do you realize that some of these school board members have built this SD to what it is today, and have been on SB longer some some of you have been in the SD? It's a disgrace that any of you would believe that they have their self interests in mind over the SD needs.
I always have to laugh at myself when all the arm chair quarterbacks say how they could do a better job...or anyone could do a better job. However, IMO, you have no idea what they do week in and week out. When was the last time any of you have been to a SB meeting when it didn't relate to the 3rd HS issue? My guess is never because I've been to all of them and there are a handul of people. You'd also be surprised how easy it is to talk to the SB members after the meeting.
Yes I believe they could have done some things better and differently, but like I've said in the past the 3rd HS issue is not the only issue they are faced with, far from it. Since I attend the SB meetings I see how much research and focus each of the SB members puts into every little issue and expenditure that comes across their desk.
Most likely I will be running for SB in 2009 and if elected I plan on working WITH the SB to bring some positives changes, and if I'm not elected I hope anyone that is elected also does the same. Unfortunately what I'm seeing are bitter angry people that want to run for school board who will bring that negative energy with them and it won't benefit any of us.
MR
To MR
Good luck on your quest to be a SB member.
God help you if you make promises and don't keep them.
The wolves will turn on you in a second.
The wolves that turn are those who have never done good for anyone but themselves. They sit back and moan and b^*ch. Learned that when I was young and started volunteering in my community. You grow a thick skin and just learn to ignore it all. If we didn't, nobody would ever volunteer in their community at any level.
Sometimes the wolves are in the right when they turn against you.
With a title and position does not come the exemption that one is infallible from bad decisions.
By MR on July 1, 2008 10:25 AM
I always have to laugh at myself when all the arm chair quarterbacks say how they could do a better job...or anyone could do a better job.
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You are but a taxpayer like the rest of us and you praise them, but this is OK? Aren't you, by your own definition, an armchair supporter?
If this group is beyond reproach why the need to run in 2009, shouldn't you be campaigning for them?
The school board members should rotate to bring fresh ideas to the table. Although Metzger and Clark get gold stars for their years of service its time for some new blood.
I've served on 2 boards myself and saw talented people come and go so others could leave their mark. Most talented people can't afford to commit 17 years to a board and you wouldn't want them to stay that long.
I don't view the folks challenging the board as armchair quarterbacks since they have a different opinion. If it’s true that the board paid $4M more for Eola that they should have they deserve to be called on the carpet. If they are making decisions based on data provided from vendors who benefit from the data that demonstrates a bias and in the business world these actions would result in your dismissal.
I also think its time to get some board members who are also professional teachers since there are none on the board (sorry JC needs to go to college to call herself a teacher).
Metzger needs to return to practicing law since its obvious his legal prowess has not helped with the BB legal debacle.
Lets get some new leaders in the system with fresh ideas and with a sincere commitment to partner with the parents and the teachers. That would be a refreshing change for 204.
By Khazakstan Kid on June 27, 2008 1:35 PM
Same as what MEW and D&S said.
With that, if you think we need a new school (me) and you're OK with the Eola location (me), and you've mentally blocked out the BB "Sword of Damocles" hanging over our heads (me), it's really exciting to see all the activity taking place. I look forward to days when I don't have to take the train downtown so on my way in to Oak Brook I can drive by the site and chart the progress.
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Hey, K Kid, good to hear from you!
Loved the Sword of Damocles reference. I was talking about something else entirely just yesterday with friends and couldn't think of what this was called. I was saying "you know that sword that was hanging by a thread, the sword of who?" and no one could remember the name, and next thing I know here is your post referencing it. Weird, but timely.
I'm doing pretty well with the denial thing, too. It's a waste of energy to get upset about it. It's like people who are terrified of flying freaking out once they're in the air. Could never figure this out. The time to do something about it is before one gets on the plane. Once you're airborne you're committed to the situation, so going off one's nut at that point accomplishes nothing. Same with the BB lawsuits. We're already mid-flight, so I'm just going to sit back and relax with a cocktail. I'll freak out if we start to go down.
Don't care about the costs, either. Over budget on one thing, under budget on something else. Who cares? It'll all even out in the end, and if it doesn't we'll still have to pay for it. It's the SBs job to worry about controlling costs; I'll gladly let them do it.
I do know one thing, tho. If there is money left over, I would not mind at all if the SB used it to further enhance Metea in some way. If it's going to be built, I want to see it be the best our money can buy. As I've said before, I believe this benefits the entire district. Neuqua was amazing when it was built; Metea should be too.
Hope you're having a great summer. We sure are!
Cheers,
D&S
To Term Limits exist for a reason in other offices on July 1, 2008 5:37 PM--
Definitely well said!
Like one of the posters said back a few months ago, we should have plenty of people running for the SB next go around since so many are unhappy and are willing to say what needs to be done.
Unfortunately like the saying goes "their are those that say and those that do". Only time will tell if we have a lot of "that say" and few "that do".
To Greg Forrest on June 27, 2008 2:21 PM
Loved your statement "they only said "open to students" they did not say open to students in the permanent structures".
How true! The SB could put the kids anywhere on the property, in any structure, and call the school "open to students". It's important that the school "open" in 2009, not that it provide an adequate learning environment. Anything is possible.
The one thing many of us have learned from this experience is how to critically evaluate the SB's statements as you just did, since we now know that if push comes to shove their exact words are all that matters. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is sad that we had to learn it the way we did.
Later!
D&S
d&s,
their exact words do not even matter either since they have full authority to do as they wish even if it does not match what they said they would do.
All this reminds me of the Brady Bunch episode, "Greg Gets Grounded" aired 1/19/73 where Greg, as a loop-hole loving son, insists on living by "Exact Words" and gets clobbered by them.
To: Clever Irony on July 1, 2008 1:50 PM
You are but a taxpayer like the rest of us and you praise them, but this is OK? Aren't you, by your own definition, an armchair supporter?
If this group is beyond reproach why the need to run in 2009, shouldn't you be campaigning for them?
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I don't recall saying that the school board is without fault. Yes, I am a supporter in the fact that I take the time to attend the SB meetings even though my spouse works and my kids aren't even near the age of HS. I also take the time to know all the issues that face our SB and SD, and therefore feel I can make an informed opinion when I do have an opinion.
In the past I have discussed many problems with the SB that I feel exist. I have also discussed these issues with many people I have met in person from these blogs. My point in that paragraph was that the majority of the SD has no idea what the SB does, and overall (IMO) has done a hell of a job making this SD what it is today. Apparently I'm not alone either from a State Level and National Level. Many people are upset about the 3rd HS issue, but I can list about 10 other things in the past year that have been approved by the SB that are smart decisions and will benefit all of us in the IPSD 204.
I further went on to say that I plan on bringing positive changes to the SB. That does not mean I think the SB is beyond reproach, far from it. However, for you to make that assumption without knowing where I stand on issues or where I see improvements that can be made is just ignorant on your part. Or, would you rather have someone going in that already has distrust and resentment towards the current active members of the SB? To me that is the recipe for disaster, far greater then the problems we're currently faced with.
MR
at least one active member already appears to have distrust and resentment towards many in the district unless the label of hostiles is really just a friendly term and webster needs to get on the ball and update its dictionaries.
one doesn't need spies to attend meetings if everyone trusts each other and we are one big happy district
I would prefer a candidate who is openminded and that has not prejudged and determined what and who is or isn't trustworthy. I think it'd be hard to find a completely neutral candidate unless it is someone who is completely unfamiliar with the history of the SD. Trust should not be freely given but earned. What happened to stranger danger?! Does it only apply to children? Absolutely not. Are you naïve?
I'm also wondering what you consider an informed opinion to be. Can we take that to mean you believe you are informed because you sit through a board meeting or two or three with only selected and limited sound bytes and innuendo to make your conclusions? If that's the case, this makes me apprehensive. Speaking from experience as I've been to a few myself I think its difficult to follow meetings without having the info the board refers to in questions and comments. Maybe you have more info than the rest of us to be so sure-footed about issues.
It's nice to have a someone step up and announce their candidacy early as you have. This can give the rest of us time to do the necessary homework on you. Maybe you would tell us your real name so we can get start. Realize you and others will endure intense scrutiny, maybe even receive a smear or fear campaign or two. Better grow some thick skin fast.
Would also love to hear your positive change ideas (assume you believe there is negativity or negative aspects of the SD or SB at some levels. What is negative that needs positive changes?) Would also appreciate the list of 10 you refer to, how we all benefit and what solid proof or data you have to back your claims.
Thanks for your future service to our great district
My point in that paragraph was that the majority of the SD has no idea what the SB does, and overall (IMO) has done a hell of a job making this SD what it is today. Apparently I'm not alone either from a State Level and National Level. Many people are upset about the 3rd HS issue, but I can list about 10 other things in the past year that have been approved by the SB that are smart decisions and will benefit all of us in the IPSD 204.
MY point is that as you blather from your high horse you ignorantly shout down others on this blog when, in fact, you don't know their level of involvement.
Or, would you rather have someone going in that already has distrust and resentment towards the current active members of the SB? To me that is the recipe for disaster, far greater then the problems we're currently faced with.
What I want is change that you unfortunately don't represent........we don't need another SB member who claims omniscience.
Looking over the previous 3 posts from Roger, Anonymous 6:34, and Clever Irony (the real irony here is this person doesn't live up to their blog handle) leads me to believe that many people in the south end of the district have completely lost their marbles. MR is threatened with a smear campaign if he runs for SB, accused of shouting down others when he has a history of doing the opposite, and loosely being labeled a spy simply because he points out that the SB does more than decide boundaries and that if elected he wants to make a positive impact in our community.
Where's ETSB when you need him...he could probably pick up a pointer or two from these three .
Khazakstan Kid, you're right its blog handle. Should I assume that you're here to represent to Central Asian point of view on the affairs of IPSD204? What's most humorous is that you, much like MR have fooled yourself into thinking that blogging an opinion makes it so.(For the record I live in the northern part of the district...but let's not that fact get in the way of your rant).
Watching ER doesn't qualify me as a surgeon, similarly merely attending School Board meetings doesn't qualify MR as an authority how this body can be critiqued, yet he/she has no problem doing do with impunity.
I hear that if it weren't for all the broken windows your glass house would be the nicest in the District.
kahz the active member referred to was a school board member not a blog poster here. are you now suggesting that they are one and the same? that would be further depressing to learn.
CI, you're free to assume anything you'd like. Opinions are a dime a dozen around here. However, some carry more weight than others. You feel MR's and mine are pretty light. That's your right. In my opinion, the opinions of people who get off their butts and make an attempt to learn what really goes on at a SB meeting carries a lot of weight with me (and a helluva lot of others on this blog) than does the opinion of some lazy turd sitting back and taking sniper shots. Guess which category you fit into? Lastly, I do find clever irony in your opinion that MR cannot critique the SB...but you can. No need to respond, I'm done with you.
Rog, I seem to be a little thick this evening. I've read your reply a couple of times and can't figure out what point you're trying to make. A little help, please.
kk - you must not get the inner circle emails from the sb prez
Khazakstan Kid, sorry I couldn't respond before you took your ball and went home.......I'd have given you a tissue beforehand. And yes, it doesn't surprise me that you missed out on the irnoy of the initial post but since you are a dolt (you admit that you are thick but it is not limited to a single evening), I'll spell it out.
MR criticzes those who criticize the SB by claiming that they have no right to do so yet his support should go unchallenged because of some self constructed, arbitrary criteria. Like I said before folks of your ilk claim perfect knowledge.
If you can restrain yourself I won't expect a response but my guess is that based on the need to call others names you'll be back, probably under a different name as well.
By Roger Waters on July 4, 2008 10:07 AM
kk - you must not get the inner circle emails from the sb prez
Ah. Got it.
I am a Project Manager and hold the PMP certification (Project Management Professional). I do not understand why the Project Manager hasn't been fired! This is crazy!
Project Management Professional on July 8, 2008 11:23 PM
I am a Project Manager and hold the PMP certification (Project Management Professional). I do not understand why the Project Manager hasn't been fired! This is crazy!
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PMP, congrats on your credentials, could you enlighten the rest of us perhaps with a few reasons you feel this way? Please also try to keep the list and wording at a level that the average "lay person" like me can understand - I know how PMP's tend to use esoteric language.
Dang, I leave for a few days and miss all the sword crossing!!!
Greg's Thoughts for anyone still checking out this thread:
Everyone has an opinion and it should be respected; it doesnt mean everyone has to agree...(what fun is that anyways?)
I have been one of the biggest critics of the SB in terms of the 3rd HS debacle..soup to nuts and A to Z. I think anyone that has been on these blogs over the past few months knows this.
While MR and I do not agree on many topics related to the 3rd HS, we have found quite a bit of common ground on a host of other D204 issues. I have found him to be very thoughtful and openminded (even when we sparred on some of the 3rd HS issues of the past). Yes, I have met him at a SB meeting we both attended. I think he would make a very good SB member and yes I live in the south and MR lives in the north if that sort of thing matters to anyone.
The 3rd HS is being built and therefore it is a moot point (except for some of the leftover extraneous issues such as BB if that ever becomes an issue; as well as current and future enrollment #'s etc etc that might have to be dealt with by a future board etc etc)
New blood and new ideas no matter where they come from = Good (IMO)
Existing board (all of them) = Bad/status quo (IMO)
Cant wait to see the host of candidates to choose from in 2009!! I am planning a run for a SB seat myself in 2011 (when M2 comes up for re-election!!!)
Hope everyone had a good 4th
GF