The police should follow the law just like any other citizens. The NPD is corrupted because why?? Without a operating IAD,how will the dept ever be straighted out.Most cops are honest,decent people however a few criminals appear to have spoiled the bunch. The taxpayers will continue to payout BIG as crooked cops continue unabated to carry out the duties of combine protection. Do you really think the NPD wants to CLEAN up its act? NPD's Dial lobbied for driver cert's for illegal aliens!!! What was the ramifications of his editorial, does anyone care?

Ironic would be one way to look at it.

PAYBACK is HELL would be another.

Who's laughing now fool? would be even better.

Is it not ironic that given Rosanova's participation in the unbecoming attack on Fursteneau and the efforts to get him off the council that HE will be off the council before Fursteneau?

Dear Sandra Day O'Connor,

I also follow the Main Anonymous and he makes the most sense of any blogger on this blog site. Don't get him mixed up with other Anonymous(s). I wish he would choose a name like Main Anonymous so bloggers don't give him credit for what he does not say and try to tarnish his excellent credibility.

He does not hate the police. He just wants a better, less wasteful, more productive and less expensive police department. That does not add up to HATRED!

Mr. Anonymous: I have gone back and read months and months of past blogs, and have ruled in favor of Dr. Sigmund Freud. You spend way too much time behind the computer blogging. By the tone of your responses, it also appears that you do not like law enforcement.

Gosh Siggy, don't hold back now... come on tell us how you really feel. We are just dying to hear what other assumptions and conclusions you have jumped to with regard to someone you don't know and haven't met. Let's see... I'm unemployed, I don't own a computer, I hate law enforcement, and I need to move. Well, on the last point I do thing everyone will agree with me that we all need to move as far away from you as possible.

I'm glad to read you have a real job... your mother must be proud.

Hey Anonymous: My expert opinion has classified your postings as: PSYCHOBABBLE. It is also quite obvious that someone who spends as much time blogging as you is probably some unemployed loser who sits in the Naperville Library all day using their computers, as you probably dont even own a computer. Finally, as much hatred as you have for law enforcement, you are probably 1) Charles Manson, 2) Joey "the clown" Lombardo 3) Ted Kaczynski, 4) David Berkowitz, or 5), the most dreaded yet...Dick Furstenau!!!!!! I dont have any more time to respond to your nonsense, as I have a REAL job. Why dont you do us all a favor and move far far away....like to New Orleans.

Well Siggy,

All of the qualified psychiatrists that I know are much better at asking questions than you are and not a one of them ever jumps to a conclusion like you do as to what is or is not "quite obvious". Making unfounded assumptions or accusations isn't a character trait of a true professional.

You, no differently than anyone else has "world experiences" or more correctly "life experiences". It is a shame you confuse what is nothing more than your own opinion with what would be required to truly be an expert on police "cleanliness".

Besides what I do with my spare time or when I do it is none of your business. Personally I consider crap like a "citizens police academy" a waste of time, a waste of taxpayer money, and nothing more than a self-serving propaganda program designed to promote the NPD through very carefully designed PR. What a poor use of police time and taxpayer dollars especially during a time when there is a city wide budget deficit.

Naperville is filled with a heck of a lot of very intelligent and highly educated professionals. We know very well what the role of the police department is in our community. Maybe police academies might possibly have a role in some blue collar communities. By and large this is wasted time and effort in a community as sophisticated as Naperville.

Oh, and just so we are clear about one thing... I strongly doubt if there is a single police department in this state that would also not lay claim to being "one of the finest police departments in the State of Illinois". Claims like this mean absolutely nothing unless they can be corroborated by an independent third party review.

I won't even bother to ask why you downgraded your own opinion from "one in the nation" to "one in the state".

I have had many experiences with the NPD. They are far from the finest police department in the State of Illinois.

If a citizen calls them for help, he or she receives very low priority if they are non-establishment!

If a police officer feels like issuing DUIs he gives them very high priority so he can be personally recognized.

If the NPD likes you, they give you high priority when you call them. If they don't like you, they give you low priority.

I am not talking about life threatening situations where they give everyone equal urgency. I am talking about non-life threatening matters.

I would rank the NPD near the bottom in the State of Illinios even though they are paid near the top, if not the top!

Hey Anonymous: Not only am I very qualified to dispense psychiatric advice, my world experiences also qualifiy me as an expert on the "cleanliness" of the NPD. It is quite obvious that you, much like Mr Quigley has had a bad experience with law enforcement, specifically NPD. I have no clue where you live, but if you DO reside in Naperville, the day you need to call 911 will probably change your view of NPD. I suggest with all the spare time you have blogging on the Sun's website, maybe you should join the NPD citizens police academy. It just might change your VERY negative opinion of one of the finest poice departments in the State of Illinois.

Hey Siggy,

You were supposed to be qualified to dispense psychiatric advice when you were alive. Maybe you can connect the dots for us and explain how that makes you qualified to dispense police advice?

While you are explaining things maybe you could also take a stab at explaining how where I live or who I call for 911 has anything to do with the "cleanliness" of the NPD?

Hey Anonymous: Go move to Gary Indiana, Detroit Michigan, or Ford Heights Illinois. Maybe then you will appreciate the Naperville Police Department. Oh by the way, should you ever be violated by a criminal, instead of calling 911, maybe you should call Mr. Quigley or Taxpayer.

Hey Siggy,

Do you have an independent, impartial, third-party professional opinion that "NPD is one of the cleanest departments in the nation"? Or is that just your own personal, biased opinion?

Mr. Quigley: My diagnosis of you has determined you suffer from paranoia. Get some help dude!!! NPD is one of the cleanest departments in the nation. The Freedom of Information Act clearly shows why you hate NPD. My advice to you...Stay in Boone County!!

AA –

I share your same trepidation regarding the NPD self-policing, I just chose to withhold judgment until I see some facts. You like to say it doesn’t work, but the allegations need to be supported by facts. I’m sure DF will let us know when he gets his records (names or not).

**********

Anon –

I’ll take your word for it, I guess, but I still half-doubt the records are so open. As I seem to recall, there was much discussion about the lack of records which the Sun and others received through a FOIA request regarding Mr. Esmail’s suspended license arrest. He pleaded guilty, I believe, so then all his arrest records should be open, right? I think the Sun got one page.

T.B.

T.B.,

I disagree with this mentioned exception being applied correctly to this situation. There is recent case law from a lawsuit filed against the City of Chicago that required police complaint info to be accessible as part of the public record. As previously stated, information is only shielded while there is an open, ongoing investigation. Once the investigation is declared officially closed the information transitions to public record and is fair game for anyone who wants it.

For several years we have been saying the only way to expose crime and wrongdoing in the NPD is to have the DOJ step in and conduct a full and complete investigation. C.O.N.P.A has observed NPD since 2002,and it ain't looking good. If ten(10) people did step forward to complain on PAPER,they are very,very brave. All citizens with a beef with NPD should unite and tell the WHOLE,entire story to mod. Ted. He has asked half a dozen times for complaintaints to step forward and be heard. Let's find out the BASIS of these ten incidents,then we can go forward to remediation. I have not filed federal suit because I do not want any money!! Would YOU participate in community discussion on process of REMEDIATION in your PD???? It's being used nationwide to promote solutions for both CITIZENS and OFFICERS. Think of the taxpayer monies that might be saved. Thanks in advance for your participation.

As JQP pointed out and Anon added to, there is an appointed board (or boards) to monitor the police and fire departments so this is not a “closed door” situation as you say, AA. I'm all for the council having the info without names…this should be enough for the council to see that the NPD is or is not doing a good job in this area. Where’s the “closed door”?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

TB and JQP,
My understanding is all police who break the rules are brought before the Internal Affairs Division of the Naperville Police Dept and not the appointed boards who pretty much serve a rubber stamp function to make the NPD look and smell as well as possible.

I can not remember the name of the head of Internal Affairs but from reading this blog site I recall he is the Sergeant that arrested the Napergate Man over the toll violation by his daughter. Hopefully someone will remember his name.

Self-policing really bothers me.

No police officer wants to hand serious punishment to his fellow police officers. What a terrible position this poor Sergeant is in! If he was issuing real punishment to police officers for their improprieties, he would be the most hated cop in Naperville.

He is probably giving the few he finds guilty, at most slaps on the wrist, for public consumption and in fact may be the most popular police officer on the NPD force for his extreme leniency.

Just my 2 cents worth!

________________________________________________________________

PS. It is really hard for me to believe that anyone in this well educated town, if given a choice, would accept the police dept. policing itself. There is no way the NPD is going to find an officer guilty of intentionally killing a civilian and subjecting itself and the town to a $50,000,000 dollar lawsuit. That would be utter stupidity. It would be insanity. It would be dumb!

Since the NPD is not stupid, insane or dumb do we expect it to truthfully police itself and suffer the consequences of its improprieties! Makes no sense unless you were born yesterday in the Congo!

And finally what chance did the Napergate Man have of lodging a complaint against his arresting officer, if he wanted to, since his arresting officer heads the INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION. I just don't see how people don't see this inherent CONFLICT OF INTEREST in the way our fine Naperville Police Dept. does business and conducts itself!

Anon and AA –

What I meant by my comment “…then what the hell are we arguing about” is that we're all in agreement that the council should have the info, just not in agreement about the council having the names. If DF doesn’t want the names, that seems to imply he doesn’t need them. Sounds good to me.

As JQP pointed out and Anon added to, there is an appointed board (or boards) to monitor the police and fire departments so this is not a “closed door” situation as you say, AA. I'm all for the council having the info without names…this should be enough for the council to see that the NPD is or is not doing a good job in this area. Where’s the “closed door”?

And, Anon, I doubt this info would be available through a FOIA request. Fill one out and we’ll see, but I think another post already said this would most likely fall under an exception and this info is only avail to an oversight board, which I believe includes the city council.

T.B.

T.B.,

Here is where you miss the point of this discussion: "...prompting the council to shoot down a request by Councilman Richard Furstenau to review internal investigation information for 10 complaints filed by residents against Naperville Police officers."

Under law anyone can file a FOI request for a copy of the original complaint. This report will, in most cases, identify the officer involved and the basis of the complaint. The prior arguments about officer privacy are mute points as the law simply does not provide for personal privacy when it comes to public records.

Subsequent records that are created pertaining to an investigation related to the complaint are not subject to FOI requests while the investigation is open. Once an investigation is declared closed such records become part of the public record and are subject to a FOI request.

The Board of Police and Fire Commissioners are appointed public officials and must conduct their business in a manner consistent with provisions of the Open Meetings Act. Transcripts of their proceedings are part of the public record and subject to a FOI request.

Criminal charges that result of a complaint investigation are part of the public record and subject to a FOI request. Records related to a criminal investigation would also not be subject to a FOI request while the investigation is open. Once a criminal investigation is declared closed such records also become part of the public record and are subject to a FOI request.

Under law the elected mayor of a city has free and total access to every city record at all times. Interestingly, the law is mute on the point of access to records investigating misconduct of the mayor. City council members are not similarly provided with free and total access. City Council members are not provided any more access to city records of open investigations than any other citizen. City Council members have the same rights as every other citizen to make a FOI request.

Now we get to the most interesting point of this discussion... even if the City Council had voted unanimously to grant Furstenau's request for these records the NPD still could have refused such a request for each of the 10 cited complaints that remained classified as ongoing, open investigations. State law does not give city council motions any special access to police investigations. This dilemma would have to be resolved by revising existing state law, not by a local ordinance. One has to wonder why our overpaid and underperforming City Attorney didn't advise the council appropriately on this matter.

As stated above, the mayor does have access to all city records at all times. State law is also mute as to the appropriateness of the mayor sharing the content of those records to which he is privy with anyone else, including the City Council.

Bottom line is this. Original complaints are part of the public record. As long as the NPD has an ongoing, open investigation certain records are withheld from public scrutiny. Once an investigation is closed the entire matter is part of the public record and anyone can review it under provisions of the FOIA.

Patience is a virtue. In due time we will all know all of the details of each of these 10 complaints once they become part of the public record. Every closed complaint ever lodged aginst the NPD is already part of the public record and is there for anyone to review.

But if you watched the council meeting and DF didn’t want the officers’ names (hence we can infer he didn’t need them for his oversight), then what the hell are we arguing about?

*******************************************************************

T.B.
The city council would not give DF anything he requested. I think the ruling was either 8 to 1 against him or 7-1-1 against him.

I believe that is what we are debating.

I think he was requesting the individuals name in order to see how they were treated. The council said, NO NO and NO to him!!!

They were suspicious of his motives. Their decision may have wider and long term effects where no council member can intervene to make sure a citizen is being treated fairly in these secretive INTERNAL AFFAIR hearings.

Now we have police judging police literally behind closed doors and with no transparency.

Is this what you want, TB? I hope not!!!

JQP –

You could very well be right, I don’t know. I think the council also has a justifiable oversight need for this info, I just don’t see why the council needs the names of those involved.

*********

Anon –

You fail to distinguish between crimes and complaints. If a cop is arrested or charged with something (anything), his name will be published just as yours and mine would be. I’m sure the Sun would be all over that (Ted and his staff are pretty sharp).

However, a complaint and potentially some type of administrative punishment are different than crimes. You want restraint in the criticism of DF’s lawsuit until all the facts are in, yet seem to think every complaint against the NPD is a guilty crime being covered up as opposed to something potentially innocuous.

I see why the council would want the info as to the nature of the complaints and how they were handled, but I see no need for the council to have the officers’ names. The council can perform their oversight without the names.

I also see you’ve finally acknowledged that discipline of cops is subject to due process and their collective bargaining agreement and not the whims of the council. Thanks.

**********

Another Anon –

I think you miss-quoted me. I doubt this type of NPD info is available through a FOIA request. What I wrote is that DF’s attorney could subpoena the info from the city through his lawsuit. The city could attempt to quash the subpoena, but they’d have to show the requested info was of no value to DF or was a fishing expedition. Based on DF’s case, I think this info would be found to be very relevant to his case and the subpoena would stand.

But if you watched the council meeting and DF didn’t want the officers’ names (hence we can infer he didn’t need them for his oversight), then what the hell are we arguing about?

T.B.

"Furstenau did not give up his constitutional rights as a citizen when he agreed to run for public office."

Blah blah blah. Every thread that deals with this two-bit egomaniac has you saying the same thing. Everyone who points out that someone with the city's best interests at heart rather than their own hurt pride might not file a lawsuit to get an undeserved appology gets the same bogus retort.

No -- he didnt give up his rights as a citizen when he joined council. He can just as petty and vindictive as any other citizen has a right to be. But cant we expect a bit better behavior from someone who claims to be looking out for the citizens best interests?

It doesnt take courage to file a lawsuit. Just money. And in this case, large, large, large amounts of chutzpah.

JQP,

The mayor with the consent and approval of the city council appoint members of the Board of Police and Fire Commissioners to serve for fixed terms or to fill vacancies.

The Police Chief has the ability to administer discipline up to a certain level without involvement or action by the Board. Above a Police Chief's threshold and the Board either administers discipline or it is handled in another manner subject to a collective bargaining agreement. Discipline cases found against any given officer do provide for due process if the officer chooses to appeal the decision.

Since the mayor and city council appoint the Board; the council inherently retains oversight of the Board.

Average citizens also have oversight authority. Ultimate oversight authority. It is called the right to vote. Elected officials shall alway have only as much or as little authority as We the People transfer to them.

Host Ted,

I watched the last city council meeting on TV. If I recall correctly Fustenau emphasized that he did not want the names or the personnal files of the police officers.

He was only interested in the cases and how they were resolved. If the citizens were treated properly! How the cases were resolved!

The city has the option of providing the cases and blacking out the officers' names if that is such a sensitive issue. But since police officers are public officials and/or servants, I do not understand why they need to keep their names so secretive. They are not CIA operatives spying on the KGB in the former Soviet Union.

As T.B. stated if he wanted to get the names of officers, he could get them through a FREEDOM of INFORMATION ACT. He could easily get Officer Hull's file as it would be relevant to his case.

I believe DF is sincere and cares for the residents. He believes the NPD abuses its power and wants to keep it in check. That is a council members duty to point out and prevent abuse by those in power.

His case is being handled by a competent attorney who knows how to get what he wants. DF was only asking for the information to make sure other citizens are not being abused by the NPD! It was that simple. Too many people are reading too much into it!!!

Dear SP,

Have you forgotten that all of the motions by the city to have this lawsuit dismissed in Federal court have already failed? The trial judge has already ruled that there is enough merit in the complaint for the trial to move forward.

Besides, a dismissal isn't always a win or an end game unless it is a ruling by a judge or done with prejudice. A dismissal without prejudice still leaves the door open for the plaintiff to file an amended complaint.

Ted & T.B.,

Doesn't the Board of Fire and Police Commissioners have oversight of disciplinary proceedings in the NPD? If so, I would think that DF's position on the City Council would give him no more oversight authority than any other citizen.

-JQP

T.B.,

You are dubious of Furstenau's motives? Actually I am even more dubious of yours. What you are proposing isn't oversight or checks and balances. You are proposing to give the NPD free reign not to be accountable for their actions and in all effect to create a police department that operates outside of a window of transparency, accountable to no one, and with a veil of secrecy thrown over their operations. Your kind of thinking would be just fine in a police state like communist China.

The police have long had a saying... if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. The same saying applies equally to police officers who have rules, standards, and laws that apply to them. If they can not perform their duties and operate within what is considered acceptable behavior they are not entitled to any special favors or treatment. If you or I break the law the police will use every legal means at their disposal to bring us to justice. Police officers can not expect a double standard for their own personal conduct. If police officers break our laws they do not deserve to be able to hide behind a wall of secrecy. If officers find they are unable to conduct themselves within the restraints of what is considered acceptable then they need to find a different job or a different line of work. If police officers find working in a transparent manner, fully accountable to the public who is paying for their salary and benefits and the cost of their mistakes; well then, maybe police work wasn't the right career choice for them.

Let us not forget that we live in the shadow of Chicago, where last year a number of city council members defied Mayor Daley and demanded to know the names of police officers who were subjects of multiple misconduct complaints.

This article is a year old, but says the court determined the names did not have to be made public:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/26chicago.html

This is a simple request blown out of proportion by DF because he demanded the officers’ names. He should have known this would cause a ruckus.

Face it, DF is in a position of oversight for the NPD and he should have access to these records; however, there is no need for him (or any other politician) to know the names of the officers involved as long as it is communicated to him if more than one complaint is about the same officer. DF and the rest of the council can provide the necessary oversight of the NPD without knowing the officers’ names. They just need to know the nature of the complaint, the actions taken by the NPD, and any conclusions reached. After all, this is about making sure the system works, right?

Though I’m dubious of DF’s motives here, if he really wanted the info for his lawsuit his lawyer probably already subpoenaed the info.

T.B.

To Anonymous: The city's 5th move will be WINNING; by have this stupid lawsuit thrown out at the federal level.

Anonymous at 11:42, you're missing an important point.

You're right when you say that everyone deserves his or her day in court, and that no one gave up that right just because he or she may be a member of the city council. The difference is, Furstenau is not just a citizen suing the city. He votes on taxes, decides how monies are allocated and determines in large part the future of city staffers.

In my opinion, it is a conflict of interest for Furstenau to sit on the council when his suit is in effect. It's petty and slimy.

Everyone has a right to their day in court. Furstenau did not give up his constitutional rights as a citizen when he agreed to run for public office. The fact that Furstenau holds a public office is not relevant to those who claim he is costing us a lot of money. The cost of the lawsuit would be no different than if you or I had the same thing happen to us and we filed a lawsuit against the city. In fact, it appears that there could be as many as 9 other lawsuits waiting in the wings if all of the other complaints against the NPD also have grounds to seek damages. What in the world will be the total cost of ALL of this litigation and what is going on within the NPD that is causing all of these complaints. Let's face it, when people are complaining... especially this many it is a strong indication that something is wrong and something needs to be changed. If the police chief can't get a handle on this and quick then maybe we need a new chief of police.

What will be your response to all of the citizens who felt they were wronged so badly that it caused them to file a written complaint? Go away and don't file your suit just because it is going to cost money? How does anyone ever right a wrong if the misers of the world care only what some things cost and don't give a hoot about possible police abuse or citizen rights being violated.

Let's not forget that the city made the first move by arresting Furstenau in the first place. The city made the second move by not calling in the State Police to conduct the investigation. The city made the third move deciding to proceed full speed ahead with a trial which the city then lost. The city made the fourth move by refusing multiple attempts to negotiate a settlement. Four bad moves in a row by our elected officials. Are we seeing a pattern here yet?

Does anyone want to guess what the city's fifth move will be?

Dick Furstenau - Jim Traficant: The same person? You be the judge.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/traficant.gif

http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Photo_Gallery/2007/070515inauguration05.jpg

Both are lunatics.

OK...I admit it...Im the one who is a moron and is dumb!! I just realized as a taxpayer, DF is going to cost this city a lot of money. I apologize to anyone I insulted. I will now write 100 times on the chalkboard "DF is wrong for bringing on this foolish lawsuit".

Oh, wonderful... another petty rant.

One day it is an attack on posters names. The next it is on grammar and spelling.

Pullleeeseee! Enough of this petty harping about trivial things that do not add value to the discussion. This is about exchanging ideas and communicating. It is not about writing a term paper for English class. Focus on the issues, the opinions, the thoughts that matter. Forget about the trivial little things that don't really matter in the big picture.

Taxpayer clown only cares about getting his two cents in as fast as he can type. Never-mind those unimportant things know as grammar or facts. He is just so important, he can't wait for you and I to read about what he thinks. I'm just curious, what kind of person is so lazy to not capitalize the first letter of their sentence and then think anyone is going to take them seriously? It appears that you are very uneducated and way out of your league even on a silly blog form like this.

Yet another slow day at the Sun I see. Your bloggers have decreased dramatically, probably because they get tired of the same old same old. This type of blog would have got several hundred responses a year ago.

Anonymous,

I guess if the Napergate Man is a criminal and sells liquor to minors, he fooled the nation when he won the Kylix Award for being the most responsible liquor retailer in the USA.

I guess facts speak a little louder than propanganda!

Try a little harder! Be more factual!

Review his records in the court system.

You will find the NPD wrongfully charged him and paid a very heavy price for wrongfully charging him.

Let us hope they don't have to pay the same heavy price to Councilman Dick Furstenau.

hey mark

i understand the difference between you're and your. im typing fast, i don't care about capitalization or spelling or typos. im not here to spend extra time worrying about making any impressions with writing or grammar skills. i am simply here to make a point and you get the point.

i acknowledged that DF wanted the names of the person who filed the complaint and who they filed it against and a one line description of the complaint. DF has no intentions of making anything public. but, you need to be aware that a complaint filed against a city employee by a citizen, is, IN FACT, a matter of public record. furthermore, we all have the right to know what it is, and we don't even need to be councilman to get it. all any of us would need to do is file a freedom of information act request for the info and the city has no choice but to hand over a copy of the complaint filed. they don't have to share any personnel files or internal documents about the investigation, but they do have to hand over the complaint. DF simply wants to know what complaints have been lodged against the city. he didn't request any personnel files or any internal investigation files. this type of thing is normal for a councilman to know. that is why this whole thing is grand-standing by the council and a bunch of hogwash trying to cover their own ass.

if a councilman feels that he wants to be aware what the complaints are and that everything gets followed up on properly, that is certainly within his right, both as one of the bosses of the npd and as an advocate for the taxpaying citizen who filed it.

Napergate man is a criminal. Sold booze to teens for money under the table-anybody that went to NCHS knew that. We should open his file. See where he lives and what he is doing.

I agree with TAXPAYER and ANONYMOUS.

The city should have transparency.

We should all have a right to look at these files.

We need to know when the NPD is abusing citizens and hold them accountable publicly!

A police dept. policing itself amounts to hogwash.

The head of Internal Affairs is the Sergeant who felt a need to jail the Napergate Man and separate him from his dog over a 40 cent toll violation(s)his daughter accidentally committed 6 years ago.

It appears to me the Head of Internal Affairs has seriously impaired judgment when he needs to jail someone over night instead of allowing him to post bond and go home with his dog on such a petty violation he ironically did not even committ. A 16 year older did!

The Head of Internal Affairs seems like he dislikes civilians. I can not see him ruling in favor of a civilian against a fellow police officer unless it is a black and white case or a video is available. It is not easy to rule against a fellow police officer when you pass by him or her in the hall every day! The system of police policing police is ludricious. It puzzles me that our brilliant Police Chief David Dial does not see the conflict of interest! It is just way to blatant!!!

If he has to side, he will be siding with the police officers. All the time! You can bank that one!

Kudos to Dick Furstenau for speaking up against Pee Wee Wehrli. Even a blind man could see thru Pee Wee Wehrli's motive.

Obviously his lame, little brain isn't aware that if the lawsuit was the true and actual basis of the request Dick wouldn't even have had to ask. Dick would have just had his lawyer subpoena the police records and that would have been the end of it.

Obviously when the rest of the city council attempts to circle their wagons and attempts to throw a sack over the elephant in the room we have more to be suspicious of them than the person making the request. Government that hides information or refuses to release information in this day and age is out-of-touch and fully deserves to be brought down a notch or two.

If there is nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of in these complaints and investigative reports the city council should be proud and willing to share this information with everyone. The fact that the city council is not willing to share this information speaks volumes about what these reports must actually contain.

This from Lisa Madigan's web site. It would appear that a broad request to "review internal investigation information" would not be allowed under the Illinois FOIA. However, it might be up to a court to decide if release of the initial complaints themselves would constitute a problem.

******

A second group of exceptions covers records related to investigations, law
enforcement, and corrections. Under subsection 7(1)(c) of the Act, records compiled by any
public body for administrative enforcement proceedings or by law enforcement or correctional
agencies for law enforcement purposes or for internal matters of public bodies are exempt if
disclosure would interfere with litigation or administrative enforcement proceedings, deprive a
person of a fair hearing, unavoidably disclose the identity of a confidential source, disclose
specialized investigative sources or techniques or documents of correctional agencies related to
crime or misconduct, endanger someone's life, constitute an invasion of personal privacy or
obstruct an ongoing criminal investigation.

Taxpayer at 10:02: Are you really that obtuse? Dick "Sue 'Em First" Furstenau didn't simply want to "know what the complaints were." He wanted names: names of the officers against whom complaints were filed.

As far as we know, these complaints have not been proven. They have not led to disciplinary action. They are simply allegations and/or complaints that people have made. I believe these kinds of investigations into alleged misconduct should be confidential until any actual wrongdoing is found.

Would YOU want your name divulged to a public official on the basis of a single complaint? Of course not. And there is no reason for these complaints to be sent to individual council members at this time.

Finally, a little lesson: If you want to call someone a "moron," you might want to pick up a dictionary and check out the difference between "your" and "you're." "Your" signifies ownership; "You're" is a contraction for "you are." You should get it right. Otherwise you may look, well, moronic.

sarah palin

your hot but dumb.

any and all internal files or documents that would be relevant IN ANY WAY to furstenau's lawsuit have already been ordered by a judge to be handed over to DF and his attorney as part of the normal discovery phase of the lawsuit. that means that these complaints don't have any relevancy to the DF suit if they haven't already been handed over. DF is aware of this. therefor, it DF is obviously not fishing for anything. he is simply doing what he believes is part of his job as a councilman to be informed and aware of such incidents to better serve as an advocate for the average citizen.

wherli is totally aware of the fact that all documents relative to the DF suit have been ordered to be handed over. that is why he also knows they aren't relevant to DF's case and he is simply grand-standing to try and make DF look bad.

furthermore, if the city didn't do anything wrong to begin with, then why are they trying so hard to keep the documents from him?

DF said it best: "When a councilman cannot get a copy of an internal investigations complaint, that's a problem."

In this day of corrupt governments, collapsing home values and portfolios, golden parachutes even for city employees (Oops! There is that intelligent elected Naperville City Council again!), our civic leaders right here in Naperville seem intent on starting yet another major controversy that reeks of questionable ethics on their part

OUR wondeful Council has decided we, the citizens who elect them, don't need to worry our pretty little heads about minor issues like potentially corrupt and/or brutal police.

In fact, in their infinite widsom, they decide to even keep an ELECTED COUNCILMAN from seeing even the most basic of information on this matter.

The result? We can ONLY conclude the City Council is hiding something very damaging to the Police Department from us.

Kudos to Grant Wehrli for speaking up against Big Dick Furstenau. Even a blind man could see thru Big Dick's motive.

Although I hate to agree with Dick Furstenau on anything involving his lawsuit I still wonder why the public should not know something about citizen complaints against city employees. I would not expect the employee or the citizen to be named but I see no problem with general statisitcs. I think there is more than enough smoke and mirrors out there already. Clean, efficient government is transparent government.

I would like to learn more details about this. From a cursory reading, this sounds pretty scary. Citizens are making complaints against police officers, and members of city council are not able to access the files with the details about the complaints? Am I understanding this correctly? Does that make any sense to anyone?

Is this how our schools function, as well? If several parents lodged complaints about a school principal, would the School Board members (203 and 204) be privy to those details about the complaints?

Am I the only one who finds this both scary and odd?

Why is it that whenever Grant Wehrli opens his mouth and starts spouting off his personal opinion he forgets that when he is sitting up there he is representing the citizens of Naperville? Will someone please tell Wehrli to leave his personal opinions at home and to please THINK before he opens his mouth; maybe even try to bring a little dignity and class to City Council meetings? I know Grant, it's hard, but that's what we are paying you to do.

Obviously Wehrli and the rest of the city council members didn't quite think things through when they started their witch hunt and vendetta against Furstenau which is fairly typical and predictable for Wehrli and most of these mopes. If every city employee and every city record isn't fully and readily accessible to at least our elected officials then that spells big trouble for the average citizen.

Big trouble in that the citizens will have secrets that should be part of the public record withheld from them by the very people we are paying to represent and protect us. The total lack of oversight and accountability is troubling. If the NPD doesn't immediately hand over the complete records on each of these 10 complaints to Furstenau as a duly elected member of our city council I would fully support him in filing another lawsuit against the NPD to force them to do so.

That is the kind of representation I expect. That is the kind of representation I wanted when I voted for some of the current incumbents.

Grant Wehrli doesn't have a clue about how to effectively perform his duties as a member of the city council. At every opportunity he has disappointed and failed miserably in his ability to deliver anything meaningful to city council deliberations.

Every group has it's strongest and weakest members. Grant Wehrli is clearly, and by far, the weakest member of the current city council. If this were "Survivor" he would have been voted off the island a long time ago and would have been the first to go.

When Wehrli's term expires we can all hope he has the good sense not to run for reelection. Knowing Wehrli's pompous attitude and arrogant ego he probably thinks not only will he be reelected, but that one day he will be mayor. Hopefully all of the citizens of Naperville will send him a clear and compelling message and once and for all time tell this jackass what they truly think of him.

mark your a moron.

anonymous you are correct.

as DF said, he didn't ask for personnel files. he just wanted to know what the complaints were. it is normal standard procedure for a councilman to be able to request and get that type of info. it was a complaint filed by a citizen against a city employee. he didn't request any internal documents or personnel files.

people on these blogs continually scream about how crooked the npd is and that internal investigations accomplish nothing as the police police themselves. DF just wanted follow up on these issues, and doesn't it say anything that the npd and council won't turn them over. it is the council who is primarily fighting this suit. so what is the council trying to hide.

lastly and more importantly, what the council decides will largely be meaningless. DF's attorney will likely request the docs and a judge will order the city to turn them over because they are subject to freedom of information act.

it is the city council who is grand-standing in this case. they are the ones trying to be sneaky to cover their own ass while, at the same time, telling people it is DF who is doing something underhanded. he simply wants a summary of a complaint filed against a city employee by a citizen. sounds like the very kind of info a councilman should know about.

Certainly the city council member who are directly responsible for fending off lawsuits and the expense of litigation shouldn't need to do anything more than ASK if they want police records or any other official records that are the property of the City of Naperville. To a certain extent I think Furstenau was way too easy going on this issue for only asking for a one sentence summary as that would give the NPD wide latitude to get out their creative writing skills. If I was a member of the city council I would have wanted to see the entire file.

I'll let all of the jailhouse lawyers weigh in on this, but I don't think the NPD can refuse to release the original complaint document if a Freedom of Information request is made. The content of their investigative files may be another story though.

Police investigating police has not worked well in the past, doesn't work well now, and there is no clear indication that it will work well in the future. Like other industries the police have failed miserably at being able to objectively and fairly police themselves.

The people need to be have confidence and trust that complaints will be taken seriously and investigated truthfully and fairly. To accomplish this in a manner that will protect the rights of both citizens and police officers we simply need to create either a county or state agency that answers only to the States Attorneys office for purposes of investigating police misconduct.

I'll say this for Furstenau, he's got gumption. He's also about as ham-handed as anyone I've ever seen. The motivation behind his pathetic and self-serving attempt to gain access to private information -- information that should NOT be made available to anyone in the city who wants to know about it -- is as clear as the sky.

Why anyone continues to support this guy is a mystery.