Sunday's Sun features the results of a Sun study about Naperville's highest-paid public servants. We used the Freedom of Information Act to ask the city, school districts and park districts for lists of their highest-paid workers, then combined the findings into one list.
In a moment, you'll be able to share your observations. First, here's a couple of thoughts from us:
Why are administrators in Indian Prairie School District 204 paid so much more than their counterparts in Naperville School District 203?
The highest-paid public servants work in schools, not the city. Why is that?
The park district's highest salaries don't even register in the top 20 citywide.
The findings reported in The Sun are simply base salaries. You gotta figure another, what, 20 percent in costs borne by taxpayers for health insurance and other benefits, then add whatever retirement contribution taxpayers are making, not to mention auto allowances, etc.
Now, your turn. What do you think of the salaries paid to public servants in Naperville? What would you change, if you could?
don't hate the players, hate the game.
I am a taxpaying parent of three children in District 204 schools ranging from elementary school to high school. I grew up in District 203 and have family members with children in 203 schools.
This is what I have observed in my 12 years of experience in District 204: before and after school programs to students at the elementary school level have been cut to bare bones, teacher meetings during the day now take place on a regular basis decreasing quantity and quality of instructional time, first year teachers are give free reign as far as interpreting the curriculum, experienced and exceptional teachers at the elementary level were let go by new administration to make an impression from a budget standpoint with little or no regard given to the impact on the students, curriculum is driven by ISAT scores rather than teaching a well-rounded curriculum... along with other changes I do not feel are progressive or beneficial to the education of the student population. I am unaware of similar occurrances in District 203.
We are losing quality teachers, administrators, and curriculum while taxes and salaries within our district continue to go up.
I would really like to see accountability on all levels. Maybe we need terms and community input when it comes to salary increases. After all, who better to rate an administrator or instructor's performance than someone who has a vested interest in the outcome produced by their performance? I certainly do not see justification for the overinflated salaries in District 204. If quality of education was increasing at the same rate, maybe I would feel differently. However, at this time I feel the two are completely unrelated while my children and my pocketbook pay the price.
Candidate for State Rep, Dianne McGuire gets another free pass from the Sun. She should have been highlighted in this article. As a former President of the teachers' union, McGuire has a long history of leading strikes or threatening strikes against Naperville. As a result of these militant tactics, McGuire's salary increased from $67,000 in 1999 to $109,000 in 2006. That's 9% per year taxpayers! The 2002 tax referendum and the subsequent skyrocketing of property taxes was the direct result of outrageous salary increases like these. And with $10,000 of financial support from the Illinois Ed Assoc. McGuire is now running for State Rep. Seeking votes from the very community she's been threatening with strikes? Taxpayers cannot afford to put another fiscally irresponsible liberal in Springfield (just look how bad off the state is already). Political puppets of the Illinois Ed Assoc. are a taxpayers' worst enemy! Don't let the Illinois Ed Assoc. buy another politician.
Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.
Here we have one of the most educated "industries" in the country and all of the professional staff have a union pay scale that is more fitting for auto workers than educators.
If these same "professionals" were working in the private sector, even working in the private sector as educators they would be paid based upon merit and performance.
Unions benefit educators. Period. Unions do absolutely nothing to improve the quality of education in our schools. Unions do absolutely nothing to improve the educational experience of students.
If we are really interested in our children receiving the best quality education from the best quality educators then it is time for each and every one of us to band together and privatize all of the schools in 203 and 204. Let those teachers who want to remain union workers to go somewhere else to work. Those who have what it takes and can demonstrate that they are the "best of the best" will always be able to find work in our schools. It is time to end the current practice of paying top dollar for far too many educators who could, at best, only be described as mediocre. Our children deserve better than this.
Mike Davitt wrote:
"As a result of these militant tactics, McGuire's salary increased from $67,000 in 1999 to $109,000 in 2006. That's 9% per year taxpayers!"
Actually, it's closer to 7% per year.
Paying City Manager Robert Marshall $157,000 while he is simultaneously collecting $84,666 in pension from the same exact taxpayers is borderline unconsionable.
1. It is simply too much.
2. He has no prior experience as a City Manager.
3. As an Acting City Manager he had led us to a deficit of "plus 5 million" with a forcast of a deficit of "plus 10 million" for next year.
4. Something has to be done about the pension system in town. Since he is a top recipient of the broken pension system he is unlikely to attempt to fix it.
5. As Another Anonymous stated if a City Employee who is retired decides to continue employment he should be paid the salary minus the pension benefits to avoid double dipping.
6. In other words we should be paying Mr. Marshall 157,000 minus 84,666. That translates to $72,334 and is more than fair compensation since he is receiving a pension for supposedly being retired while HE IS NOT!!! Social Security cuts your beneifts if you work and make above a certain amount while you are retired.
That would help us balance the budget. Is City Manager Marshall willing to balance the budget at his expense....or only the expense of the badly bruised residential taxpayers!
One fact re: 204 vs 203. 204 is 50% larger - approx. 30,000 students vs 20,000
Add being overpaid to the reasons to be disappointed with Daeschner.
Also on the list is the fact that he does not listen to teachers or parents, he's arrogant, has no long term intentions in 204, plowed ahead and built a high school nearly outside the district and far from the population density, overpaid for the high school land, doesn't answer/reply to parent email, makes inappropriate comments in public and is overall an embarrasment as a superintendant.
Our school board could have done much better than this carpet bagger who was fired by his previous district.
It seems to me having lived in both school districts that 204 continues to chase 203 in so many ways and should also benchmark the supers salary.
Based on the product of the education the administration in 204 should trail 203's administrator's salaries. They ought to earn it afterall but apparently value for the salary only applies outside district 204.
There is no such thing as a public "servant" anymore. In addition to generous salaries, government employees have the best benefits around, especially pensions, not to mention job security. Have we forgotten Naperville's former city manager left with a full 6 month's of severance pay when there was no obligation to do so. Sure, he was available for consultation during that time, but to receive full time pay for part time consulting?
That the assistant city manager is collecting a generous pension while collecting an equally generous salary is yet another example of why the government will never shrink, and it will bleed us all to death.
Does anybody EVER see the government shrinking? Does anybody see the government not growing, especially with ever growing (and unfunded) pension funding. The taxpayer will never have a chance unless they vote for those who will shrink the government.
I think 'Lack of value for Daeshner's salary' hit the nail on the head when it comes to Daeshner's character. His previous district couldn't wait to get rid of him. Did anyone in 204 take a moment to do their homework and check out his track record? Did they want to drive away good teachers and administrators in disgust at the direction District 204 is headed?
This is clearly a case of not getting what we pay for. The education portion of the taxpayers money is going to salaries that are not earned. Let's quit giving something away with nothing in return. Our children deserve quality educations and those not willing to put forth the effort to ensure that should be sent packing. The gravy train needs to be derailed. Now.
only further proof of the fact that government salaries and pensions will bankrupt local governments. we face huge deficits and we seem to want to blame them on lot of things in other direction, but the fact remains that these salaries and pensions will continue to go up exponentially until we can no longer afford to pay and go bankrupt, or continually raise taxes to cover them.
the teachers union and school board have way to much authority and should be given some oversight to keep them in check. look at the changes made under the leadership of ms. davenport. the 20-20 rule is the most self-indulgent salary/retirement legislation ever passed. they and their leadership have been running wild for way too long.
same goes for police and fire-fighter pensions. the amount of money, short tenure required, and exuberant benefits are way too costly. time to make government employees save their own money for retirement like the rest of us do in a 401k plan. otherwise, we will all be broke.
Hey Liz,
Can I come over to your work and evaluate you? Teachers are evaluated every year, and must continue taking classes, further their education, and get re-certified every 5 years. Do you do that now? If not, maybe you should, so you would deserve the salary you are getting paid now.
Also, I would not call it a "gravy" train. It takes a teacher close to 8 years until they're getting paid close to their "business" counter parts.
Our system of education needs to be entirely reformed. We need to attract high quality teachers by providing higher salaries, making the job more competitive, and providing incentive pay. We need to STOP raising teacher's salaries in the last year of their employment so that they receive lifelong retirement pay which is 75% of their annual salary. By paying teachers a fair wage, they can save for their own retirement like everyone else, and they don't have to be bankroled by the taxpayers for life!
Joe on October 6, 2008 10:47 AM
Teachers are evaluated every year, and must continue taking classes, further their education, and get re-certified every 5 years. Do you do that now? If not, maybe you should, so you would deserve the salary you are getting paid now.
-------------------------------------------
Joe: Teachers may face evaluation, but the fact remains that consistently underperforming teachers get to keep their jobs due to unions and tenure. It is virtually impossible to fire a tenured teacher. This is something we in business world do not enjoy, underperformers in our world get a pink slip.
While civilian Naperville lost 30-50% of their 401k's and Roth IRA's in the stock market, public servant Naperville is not affected or effected in the least bit.
When police or fire pensions collapse, the taxpayers fill in the loses. They are guaranteed 75% of their final salary no matter how the market does or even if they lose all their money investing in the market on margin. This is what is so insane about this whole mess.
Another Anonymous explained this phenomenen very will in prior postings. It is almost hard to believe it is so, but a few credible sources verified it is true.
How nice it is that we are suppose to subsidize them while they receive their full pensions despite the fact we lost nearly half of our retirement benefits in our IRAs and Roth just like they did in theirs.
This craziness and nonsense must stop. Police officers and fire fighters must be given their money to invest as they please and their retirements should be based on the results of their investments...not a guarantee to be paid 75% of their final salaries under any and all circumstances by the beat up taxpayer!
And it is really shocking to hear that a retired policeman can command a pension of $84,666 while retiring at age 51 and in excellent health. Top that with the fact that he is milking taxpayers for another $157,000 in a position he has little to no experience in with the same city that retired him. To my understanding of reading this blog site, he has not been able to balance the budget for this year due to expenses seriously exceeding revenue. He took no pre-emptive steps. Only after the fact steps that a sixth grader could take.
We need a real quarterback to run our city. Not a Monday Morning Quarterback!
Joe, if you were paying my salary and my job performance directly effected you or your family then you would be justified in wanting to 'evaluate' me. But we're comparing apples and oranges here, and you are obviously not up for a civilized debate with a comment like that.
Can you honestly say that ALL teachers in our district... or any district for that matter, deserve the salary they receive just because they take classes and attend recertifications? Can you honestly say you don't believe there is any deadwood or a single unqualified teacher in charge of a classroom in District 204? Do you think every Principal knows what goes on in every single classroom under their roof on a daily basis and that each and every evaluation is done in-depth and with full knowledge of the instructor's job performance? You don't think a hands-on parent could effectively evaluate whether an instructor was adequately doing his or her job? Do you have children currently attending District 204 schools? Have you ever attended a Curriculum night in the past 12 years and are you familiar enough to be able to compare changes in say, a forth grade curriculum now to one seven years ago? Can you tell me which one provides a better foundation for future learning? Have you sat down with a child in elementary school and supervised homework in the last 5 years? Do you think 'teaching to the ISATs' provides a better education than teaching the subjects in depth the 'old-fashioned way'? Do you think it is reasonable to regularly take away from 'instructional time' (on a weekly basis during critical subjects like math!) for teacher meetings when teachers barely work a seven hour day in most cases? Do you realize the 'business counterparts' whose salaries you are comparing to teachers' do not receive their summers off and they do not belong to a union who does negotiating on their behalf? That is the 'gravy train' to which I am referring. And, it's just the tip of the iceberg.
Are you a teacher? Are you a hands-on parent? We should all be on the same side. I have personally spoken to 'above-and-beyond' types of teachers who are disgusted with peers who do the minimum required to get by yet are still in charge of a classroom in District 204. Would you like to know how many of these 'diamond in the rough' teachers I have personally said goodbye to because they were 'let go' from our elementary school in order to make an Administator look good strictly from a budget standpoint? Do you really think District 204 cares more about our students and providing them with a quality education over the accolades and funding that is out there for them to snatch up if they can manipulate the right test scores? If you can honestly say you do not know of a single teacher or Administrator in District 204 who is not 'earning' their salary then I think you better start educating yourself and start talking to the parents of these students.
"This is something we in business world do not enjoy, underperformers in our world get a pink slip."
Not in education. The under-performers in education not only are not gotten rid of, most of them end up being promoted. Case in point. Stephen Daeschner. If any education administrator anywhere ever deserved a vote of "no confidence" this guy would be the poster child who beat all.
That's ok, nothing is forever. We voters get to say thank you to our school board members on election day. Step one... seat new school board members. Step two... hire a new superintendent.
Might take a bit of time but in the end the voters ALWAYS have the upper hand.
Liz, you make a lot of interesting points, and I've heard teachers make some of the same criticisms you make. But on what basis do you propose to conduct teacher evaluations if the principals aren't in a position to do it effectively, and we de-empasize the ISAT's. What standards will teachers be measured by, and who will do the measuring?
Joe, I'm evaluated every year. Actually, every six months. I'm not in the public sector though so you personally don't directly review me. Indirectly you do. If we don't have customers for our products (expenses exceed revenue), my company reduces the number of workers. And yes, I'm required to take additional training during the year to maintain my job skills.
I just wanted to point out a distinction. The 'Joe' on this blog is some one new now posting under that handle.
As the Old Joe (The one several people love to hate), I'll switch to that for the purposes of these blogs going forward to clear up any confusion (I have not posted on here yet other than this FYI).
There are a lot of good points brought out in these comments and some have been echoed almost verbatim in my child's school. Liz and a few others here could probably be a dozen people I know. The sentiment within the district is the same. Joe, your comments are suspiciously defensive. Where do you teach?
I agree that accountability is key. Who would do this if the system is failing all the way to the top? Why doesn't our School Board step in? Isn't that why they are elected? Does anyone know what, if anything, the Board has done to address this? How can two school districts within the same community operate so differently and get away with it? How do we get the ball rolling?
I like the idea Anonymous mentioned about privatizing our schools. In my opinion, teacher salaries for the most part are low given their responsibilities and the importance of their job. By privatizing, those who are conscientious and willing to perform will always have a secure job and our children will benefit. We will be getting what we pay for. Win-win. Those who don't put forth the effort will be looking for work elsewhere, as they should; they don't belong in the education field.
We don't need unions. Unions do not have our children's best interest at heart nor do they consider the taxpayer's interest. They are a greedy and self-serving entity. Revamping this failed system is long overdue.
By Joe on October 6, 2008 10:47 AM
Hey Liz,
Can I come over to your work and evaluate you? Teachers are evaluated every year, and must continue taking classes, further their education, and get re-certified every 5 years. Do you do that now? If not, maybe you should, so you would deserve the salary you are getting paid now.
Also, I would not call it a "gravy" train. It takes a teacher close to 8 years until they're getting paid close to their "business" counter parts.
__________________________________________________________________
While I am not Liz, I would really like to address this comment.
I am a stay-at-home mother of 4 in District 204. You are welcome to come and evaluate me any day. Come to my house say, around 4 o'clock, when I am trying to supervise homework and make dinner. Come and see how much supplemental work I have to do with my 4th grade twins because they don't really have much of a writing curriculum in the 4th grade since writing isn't covered on the ISATs until 5th grade. That is the reason I was given by an educator when I questioned the flimsy curriculum. Come see the sad excuse passed for a 'Writing Curriculum'. Come see how poorly papers are edited by teachers. I would love to show you how many blatant grammatical and spelling errors go untouched by the teachers. Come evaluate me during the summer and see how much supplemental work I have to do with my kids at home on their own time because their elementary school doesn't adequately prepare them with the basic foundation necessary for middle school. Perhaps you would like to attend one of the many meetings I attend with teachers or principals where I plead for a better educational foundation for my kids. Come and evaluate me any time and explain why I have to do a job the system we are paying for doesn't. I would love to get a paying job outside the home but right now I need to help my children get to where they should be in their education. If I had a paying job that took the time away from our schoolwork at home, who would step in and work with them... the schools?????
By very disturbing "While civilian Naperville lost 30-50% of their 401k's and Roth IRA's in the stock market, public servant Naperville is not affected or effected in the least bit."
You could always quit your private sector job and go work for the public sector. People don't usually take public sector jobs because A. Don't get paid as much as you would in the private sector. B. There are no perks in the public sector. C. Bonuses? HA! No Christmas bonuses in the public sector. D. Where's the glamor? There's no glamor or glory in a public sector job, it's not "sexy". It's your basic services to keep a city/state/country working.
At LEAST the public sector has a pension system. Why don't you make it impossible to recruit young people for public service jobs, it's already hard out there to recruit good candidates. It's hard to make librarian, or teacher, or the guy that cleans the sewers cool.
I think Daeschner has been well worth the $$ paid. In the last year, he has gotten All Day K implemented, as well as pushed forward the 3rd HS. Howie K. never would have gotten the school moving forward. The Dash has my vote.
Salaries of superintendents for 2006 local school districts
Administrator Salary District
Catalani Gary T $380,227 CUSD 200
Bangser Henry S $356,500 NEW TRIER TWP HSD 203
Curley Mary M $321,149 HINSDALE CCSD 181
Kelly Dennis G $317,226 LYONS TWP HSD 204
Marks Linda R $316,874 GOLF ESD 67
Kanold Timothy D $292,938 ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
Codell Neil C $286,208 NILES TWP CHSD 219
Bultinck Howard J $285,137 SUNSET RIDGE SD 29
Hager Maureen L $279,767 NORTH SHORE SD 112
Murray Laura L $279,397 HOMEWOOD FLOSSMOOR CHSD 233
Burns Kevin G $277,927 CHSD 218
Torchedlo Thomas A $266,478 WHEELING CCSD 21
Van Der Bogert Rebecca $265,922 WINNETKA SD 36
Radakovich Michael L $261,451 AURORA EAST USD 131
Fleming Larry K $259,878 LINCOLNSHIRE-PRAIRIEVIEW SD 103
Alson Allan L $258,876 EVANSTON TWP HSD 202
Wolf Boyce J $256,380 ROCK FALLS TWP HSD 301
With great graphics and wonderful pictures could the Sun please show something as simple as salaries of other local school district superintendents. This seems like such a simple thing to do.
I struggle to understand how something so basic could have been omitted. Maybe a timing issue or a deadline problem. But wait a minute our wonderful paper has little problem with timing, in fact based on when the "lack of a/c" story (primary schools 204 district)
ran in the paper...The HOTTEST day in September, maybe timing and omission of basic information is done for affect.
Some are watching and are not pleased!
It is little wonder that 4 out of 5 lte are critical in nature.
I believe Howie would have pushed the 3rd HS forward, but at the original location as promised (his words) to the public. Whether Daeschner is worth it or not remains to be seen.
Come On,
There is nothing that could compete with the sexiness of a 75% retirement pension guaranteed by the taxpayers to police and fire officers. That is very sexy!
While the private sector lost 30% of their investments if they were invested in the Dow 30 since the beginning of the year, the public sector did not lose a penny. Whatever they lost which is probably also 30% is reimbursed by the taxpayers with higher matching funds year after year. They get 75% of their salaries no matter what happens in the stock market despite having their funds invested in it....just like AA told us...how unfair!!!
The system sucks when the dwindling wealth of the civilian population has to subsidize the evaporating pension funds of the police and fire officers. I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to fix the broken pension system until it is finally bankrupted.
Going back to State Rule from Home Rule would be the first step to put the screws on all the State and City Officials who imposed on the civilian population a pension system we can not afford.
As far as people wanting public jobs such as police, there is absolutely no shortage. When Chicago takes applications the line circles around for blocks with applicants. Naperville would have thousands of applications for each police or fire position in town if it was widely advertised. Every police officer applying to any town in Illinois would also want to apply in the town that offers the highest salary in the State of Illinios if not the nation. Plus, Naperville is one of the safest cities with little risk to limb and life!!!
JQP, your questions are valid and thought provoking, and I regret to say I don't have the answers but I am on a quest to find them. I do know that District 204's current system is not working. There are teachers in classrooms who clearly do not belong there. First year teachers are given full authority to interpret and alter a fixed curriculum to their liking. There are principals who are under qualified and ineffective at their jobs. I have personally witnessed a change in administration which resulted in an excellent elementary school become derailed and dismantled over the last 4 or 5 year by such a person to the point of being hardly being recognizable as the proud institution it once was. We have a Superintendent who does not communicate with concerned parents/taxpayers or staff,and does not take the time to familiarize himself with the current state of affairs prior to arbitrarily making changes. There are board members who don't investigate situations brought to their attention and turn the other cheek. Why are there relatively 'green' teachers in 204 making close to or as much as seasoned and more qualified counterparts in District 203? This is clearly a plane skidding off the runway and it's at the expense of the taxpayers and most importantly, at the expense and value of our children's educations.
I think there needs to be accountability from the very top position all the way down. I think those who are not performing to reasonable standards need to be given their walking papers regardless of how long they have been on the job rather than allow them to hide behind the apron of Big Mama Union. We expect our children to do their best job possible and to apply themselves. The same should be expected of the instructors and administrators who teach and guide them. We need mentors who are enthused about teaching, not people who go through the motions, do the bare minimum and openly complain to anyone who will listen. We need to revamp the system and parents/taxpayers need to get involved and stand up for themselves and their families without fear of repercussion toward their child(ren). We need to remind these people that they are public servants who work for us instead allowing them to behave like slick salespeople who pedal a substandard product and have no problem scheming to pull the wool over his/her customer's eyes.
I don't have the answers, but I can clearly see the problems. We need to be vocal to our teachers, principals, administrators, board members, superintendent, and media, and let them know we expect to get what we are paying for. Enough is enough. Until that happens, we can only expect more of the same.
FYI.....................................
Police and Firefighters are NOT guaranteed 75% of their salary. You must work 30 years in order for that to happen. Many don't make it to 30 years due to the physical toll the job takes on their bodies. They also contribute to their pensions. It's not a free ride as some here like to rant on about. Please get your facts straight....
Very Disturbing are you also a writer of science fiction novels. Because your comments about public pension investments are made up in your mind and not based on any facts.
The public pension funds are specifically prohibited by law in Illinois from investing in most of what would be considered average investment vehicles. They can only invest in the safest level of investments and hence limit the yield to the fund. You complain that public pension funds aren't suffering the way a 401k does when the market dives. They also didn't participate in much of the upward movement because of these restrictions. If you are suffering as I am with the drop in the markets I feel for you, but don't be mad at the people who aren't suffering.
Public employees are limited in the amount of social security they can collect even though many have paid or will pay in based on other employement. I'm not advocating for or against Bob Marshall, but her earned a pension doing one job and he is now doing another job and getting paid for it. It's no different than you retiring from GM and then working at Ford.
Pension laws are not set by the city, they are set by the state, so for those of you saying the city should do this or the city should do that put in a call to your disfunctional state legislature and get them to change the law.
Very Disturbing,
I'm sorry about your pension, you are correct in stating that reform for that type of thing needs to happen. The baby boomers are hitting retirement age and the SS system is a mess. We keep pumping money into a broken system right there.
I do however challenge your idea of moving from home rule to state rule. "The goal of municipal home rule is to facilitate local control and minimize state intervention into municipal affairs."
The City of Rockford, which used to be the second largest city in Illinois, is non-home rule. It took almost 20 years to get Harrison Avenue reconstructed. There is real corruption, dysfunction, lack of funding and completely blighted areas in town. A new mayor was finally elected and his hands are tied being non-home rule. Progess is extremely slow. A home in Rockford, equivalent to a home in Naperville, is worth around $150,000. There are major restraints on economic development and I would really recommend you read up on the real effects of non-home rule on cities of Naperville's size.
Morbert,
We know that and this amounts to what we have been saying. If they work 30 years, they are guaranteed to collect 75% of their final salary.
Regardless of what the market does.
This is what I think SUCKS and STINKS.
The civilians in towns are being wiped out by a nearly 40% drop in the market for the last year, and they are being burdened to have to make up all the losses of the police and fire pensions so that they can still receive 75% after 30 years.
The taxpayers is being overburdened while city employees are absolutely taking NO RISK on their investments. It makes no sense.
Keep fighting for this broken pension system and the voters will have to bankrupt the city and get out of their obligations to the police, fire and other city employees.
The only way to avoid this is for the unions to step forward and take responsibility for their losses in their own pension funds and not expect them to be guaranteed by the heavily burdened Naperville Taxpayer.
The Naperville Taxpayer is not the FDIC! Please have some understanding!!!
OK morbert,
"FYI.....................................
Police and Firefighters are NOT guaranteed 75% of their salary. You must work 30 years in order for that to happen. Many don't make it to 30 years due to the physical toll the job takes on their bodies. They also contribute to their pensions. It's not a free ride as some here like to rant on about. Please get your facts straight...."
Hmmm... "Many don't make it to 30 years due to the physical toll the job takes on their bodies." Ok, you broached the subject. Let's go with it.
Yes, absolutely. Let's discuss just how much police and fire receive for medical disability pensions instead of regular retirement pensions. If you think the average citizen was pissed about the 75% pension for people in their early fifties wait until you tell them all about the disability provisions. I'm sure they will be really interested in the disability provisions resulting from causes while "not on duty" as well.
Maybe you would also like to discuss the cost of living and other adjustments over time to the payouts of these pensions?
To the Anonymous Duo,
I also am a Naperville taxpaper with a very different viewpoint than yours.
Just because I said that many police and firefighters don't make it 30 years, doesn't mean that the ones who don't(make it 30 years) go out on disability. After 20 years you can retire at 50% pay as long as you are 50years of age. Many retire with 20+ years on the department.
And as marcus aurelius stated above:
The public pension funds are specifically prohibited by law in Illinois from investing in most of what would be considered average investment vehicles. They can only invest in the safest level of investments and hence limit the yield to the fund. You complain that public pension funds aren't suffering the way a 401k does when the market dives. They also didn't participate in much of the upward movement because of these restrictions. If you are suffering as I am with the drop in the markets I feel for you, but don't be mad at the people who aren't suffering.
Public employees are limited in the amount of social security they can collect even though many have paid or will pay in based on other employement. I'm not advocating for or against Bob Marshall, but her earned a pension doing one job and he is now doing another job and getting paid for it. It's no different than you retiring from GM and then working at Ford.
Pension laws are not set by the city, they are set by the state, so for those of you saying the city should do this or the city should do that put in a call to your disfunctional state legislature and get them to change the law.
AND....................................
By Very Disturbing
As far as people wanting public jobs such as police, there is absolutely no shortage. When Chicago takes applications the line circles around for blocks with applicants. Naperville would have thousands of applications for each police or fire position in town if it was widely advertised. Every police officer applying to any town in Illinois would also want to apply in the town that offers the highest salary in the State of Illinios if not the nation. Plus, Naperville is one of the safest cities with little risk to limb and life!!!
Where are you getting your facts about the recruitment of the police and fire departments? The fire department has had to change the requirements regarding the paramedic part of the job. Now they are recruiting anyone who is a paramedic in the United States versus anyone who is a paramedic in the state of Illinois. The younger generation seems not to be as interested in going through the schooling,testing,cont.ed,certification process as in years past therefore there is a shortage of applicants..
Most people choose this work because they love it and want to help people--not for the money...
As far as your comment about "little risk to life or limb", it appears you have little respect for the sacrifices that are made to keep the public safe. Hopefully there are twenty other people reading this that respect the job done by the men and women in blue....
By marcus aurelius on October 9, 2008 3:38 PM
The public pension funds are specifically prohibited by law in Illinois from investing in most of what would be considered average investment vehicles. They can only invest in the safest level of investments and hence limit the yield to the fund. You complain that public pension funds aren't suffering the way a 401k does when the market dives.
=================================================================
Marcus,
I think you are confused. The police and fire pensions can invest in average and sometimes risky stocks....and do! Most pensions across the country have positions in the stock market. That is one of the reason the P and F Naperville Pensions are 53 million in the hole.
What angers me and others is their losses are guaranteed by the Naperville Taxpayer.
If we civilians lose money, our retirement beneifts are less. If the police and fire pensions lose money, it does not matter. They still get 75% of their final salary after 30 years, no matter how their pension does. The reason for that is the taxpayer is suppose to make up the difference of the losses in the stock market by increasing annual contributions to this pension fund. Last year the contribution to the fire fighters was 21.16% instead of simply matching the 9.46% contribution of the firemen. This is what I call subsidizing a poor return on investment!
In my opinion, the police and fire pension funds should pay out what they are capable or can afford to, from their contributions both by the employees and taxpayers. If they have great investments, let them get a 100% of their final salaries. If they have terrible investments let them only get 25% of their final salaries. More power or less power to them depending on the success of their own investments.
But in no way should the taxpayer have to plug the difference between their pension losses and what is required to make this fixed 75% pension pay-out.
Fair is fair! What is in existence now is not FAIR!!! It is a SUBDIZATION plan above and beyond the matching contributions which are 3 times what a private employer makes to his employee in the Social Security System.
Private employers match funds to the extent of 6.2% in the Social Security Fund. The City of Naperville is matching funds for the firemen of 21.16%. Almost 3 and a half times as much! This is happening at taxpayer expense. It is outrageous and must stop!
The taxpayer can no longer afford this kind of contribution especially after losing 39% of his/her wealth since the beginning of the year!!!
Sooner or later when the taxpayer is separated from his wallet, he or she will wake up. It will happen though, in the very near future!!!
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