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Reductions in (police) force

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Frequent and longtime guests and participants of this forum will recall discussion about how Naperville deploys its police force, and debate about whether the city needs such a presence of officers downtown.

We're about to find out. To help plug an $11 million shortfall, Naperville is looking at reducing its workforce by 40 positions citywide. To show how deep the cuts would go -- and just how serious this economic situation is -- nine positions would be eliminated from the police department, including the third downtown beat officer, its second crime prevention officer and its domestic violence investigator.

Do you think this forum played any role at all in the proposed cuts city officials are considering? Are you surprised by the cuts, or are they what you expected? (We've known for some time a hiring freeze was in place.) How well do you think city officials listen to input from constituents? How concerned are you about staffing cuts affecting public safety operations--in the police and fire departments?

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168 Comments

Joan, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension. I stated that anyone who receives a traffic violation and takes care of it according to the law is not considered a criminal. Someone who does not do that and gets to the level of getting their license suspended rises to criminal status.

You state I don't know the facts, but you are wrong. Diana had some illegally obtained information she tried to get posted, and Jim Lynch declined. Diana stated many things that her friend that worked of the tollway and illegally provided information supposedly proved true. I proved her wrong on those statements; go look it up in that thread. You claim, as did others, that the napergate man's daughter made an innocent mistake. I could buy that if there was one violation, but she had multiple violations making it clear she knew exactly what she was doing. She made the napergate man an accomplice to her crime as he owned the vehicle, and he suffered the consequences.

As for staying on topic, you seem to be doing a poor job yourself. Any topic on the police brings up the cult's obsession and hatred of them because of their leader's arrest. I am just following the topic where you and others have led it.

Hunting Estates Lady, or HEL, and Joan, I am not attacking the napergate man, I am just stating a fact. You, HEL, even have stated that you have been away for a while and have not kept up. Yet you go on to attack me with no provocation. Joan has done pretty much the same. The napergate man has done nothing to me, and I would not even mention him except for the fact that his supporters keep trying to twist the truth. I would be glad to never mention him again, but fear that the constant mentions of him by the napergatians will make this impossible.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of our WONDERFUL officers (& fireman) who give their hearts to helping protect all of us - especially those of you protecting us this holiday weekend! (I saw 8...county, state & local...on my way up to my family last night! :-) ) I wish you some peace & relaxation, much love and laughter and of course full tummies! :-) Thank You...there many who do understand & value & support you!

I have no need to place a name to identify. I know my record & so do the people who know me. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I'm just making the statement I or anyone may have a totally clean record. For anyone to logically think that everyone on this planet has at least 1 ticket in their life just shows the lack of logic. You can believe me or not. I don't care. Just like I can believe you are not. Right?!

I never attacked and claimed anything with the Napergate man. I simply said the logic being used by one poster was not proving anything, that how it was stated could be something else. Could it not be, sure but it certainly do not have to be the way the person painted the picture. You need to be careful on that. This cognitive bias where one believes "everyone else does it" may actually be the reason society decreases the defintion of what is against the law or "ok" to do in society. Just like students say "Oh everyone does it" for cheating. NO! Not everyone!

Obviously you have not read the most recent blog about being nice on blogs & not personally attacking ("Idiots", "Whacko", "Stepford Wife", "Messiah") yes who is doing all the personal attacks on this blog? Right!

Joan,

Very well said. I agree with you wholeheartedly!

It is hard to understand what motivates Ken to publicly call the Napergate Man a criminal. The Napergate Man probably never heard of Ken and never said a negative word about him.

This is just some proof that it is Ken that starts up these personal attacks while claiming others start them and he only responds.

I challenge Ken and his new Professor Buddy to show me where the Napergate Man attacked anyone on this blog site.

I am not even sure if he has ever blogged on this site. Does anyone know? I have been away for a while...


I also don't think TB should be lumped with Ken. They are separated by many degrees with Ken being the worst of the worse! Just an outright evil person.

TB simply likes to argue for the sake of arguing and is really not an evil person. He is on here to get some highs and one day he will get over them as Original Joe has gotten over them. Lately, OJ has been making a lot of sense and has not been attacking anyone. He really has been a gentelman in scholar. I see TB following suit one day.

As far as Ken and his new Professor Buddy, they as hopeless as hopeless can be.

I would like to welcome the new Sun Editors running this blog site and wish them luck controlling the bloggers.

Finally, I would like to wish everyone including the employees of the Naperville Sun a very Happy Thanksgiving Day.

Ken,
You interpret everything to please you. If you are caught speeding and plead guilty which most of us do, we are considered criminals by your earlier definition and that of the professor.

All bloggers were trying to say is that if the Naperville Man is a criminal most of the rest of us are too.

The Napergate Man never received proper notification of his daughter's alleged toll violation. It was farmed out to a collection agency in Houston. I don't think true crimes are farmed out to collection agencies in another state....dah!

His notice from Houston came after his arrest. You don't know all the facts. Blogger Diana sent the information to Mr. Lynch. He acknowledged receiving the info and stated he did not publish it due to privacy reasons. An unusal call since he allowed the Napergate Man, a private man, to be attacked repeatedly but would not publish documents proving his innocence!

It is you and the Professor who doing doing all the libeling without the proper knowledge or facts. If the state makes an error and arrests someone, it does not make him a criminal especially when talking about a minor traffic violation.

I am sure his daughter was not the first person in Illinos caught in the wrong lane without coin before I-Passes were wide spread.

Personally, I think you and the Professor are making idiots of yourselves for being so stupid and/or ignorant!

And what has the Napergate Man ever done to you, for you to feel a need to bash him and attack him on a consistent basis. He never attacked you. He undoubtely does not know you. Where is your deep hostility coming from that you have such a deep desire to publicise an infraction that his daugther unintentionally committed at age 16 nearly 6 or 7 years ago.

Speaking of comprehension, neither you or the fine Professor have the ability to focus on the issues the threads call for!

And I simply don't believe the fine professor never got a traffic ticket in his life unless he is a cop or fire officer that has been given professional courtesy all his life. Barring that one scenario, I will go on record and state that he is lying. He could sue me if he likes.

If he had any fibers in his being, he would put out his name and let us run his record. Talk on a blog site is cheap!

Melissa...

Ya...this just proves my point! Without proof you state I do have a long criminal record & I'm a whacko. Right! OMG and people should take anything you say seriously. I hate to tell you but so far it is still innocent until PROVEN guilty. I hope you are not only any jury anytime soon. I don't have anything on my record. You don't want to believe that, that is up to you & your problem. There are people who do not have anything. I have other family members who have totally clean records also. I never claimed to be a perfectionist. Far from it. I never claimed to be an Angel but everyone is acting like everyone on this planet is a criminal and that is not the case, even if you include traffic tickets. Do you really walk around thinking everyone has had a traffic ticket in their life? There are law abiding citizens in this world. Who do you think the speeders are passing?

To those who asked, yes I have recieved tickets. However, since I either contested them and won, or paid the fine, I, and others, have not reached the status that the napergate man did. We recieved civil fines, and paid them, so we are not considered criminals, as we followed the law. The napergate man did not follow the law, and was arrested and taken to jail for his crime. Very simply, a traffic violation does not rise to criminal status until you fail to pay your fine, or contest the violation and win.

Melissa, I am not a lawer, but it would seem to me that without proof that One Who Values You is a convicted felon, you are dangerously close to libeling him. It is funny that you make all those baseless accusations and label him a sick whacko. I guess it takes one to know one.

One Who Values You,

I think you are a balloon full of hot air.

I don't believe a single word you say.

It is easy to act as a perfectionist in fatasy world when you have never provided a name, address, driver license, or social security number.

Provide me with the above and I will post your criminal record.

Let us hope you just have traffic violations...my gut tells me your criminal record is much more serious than that....I suspect it is the length of your arm!

This blog site allows you to live in denial and pretend you are a white Angel with Wings looking down at us earthly criminal siblings.

You seem to be a very sick whacko! You probably think you are the second coming of the Messiah! May God heal you, Professor! May God help your students! May God help your Stepford Wife who you probably molded to your taste....

ASSUME! Yes that is the problem you have. Why do you assume. Do you think everyone on this planet has had at least one traffic violation in their life, even if they lived to 80 yrs or more? There are some people on this planet who NEVER get into trouble with the law. Why would you assume he or I have had a traffic violation & if we did not we could only be cops with some professional courtsey. I just can't believe you think everyone on this planet gets even a traffic violation. Hmmm if you did not stop with wet conditions that means you were driving too fast for conditions. Again, what if you hit someone or what if someone hit you for that reason? Ah no big deal according to what you are saying. What if there was someone crossing the street? That 1 foot may have made a HUGE difference! Amazing how logic gets skewed to excuse one's behavior & keep intact one's self-esteem.

One Who Values You,

I guess we are all criminals. I do not know anyone who did not get some kind of traffic violation in their entire life.

According to you and Ken, that person is a CRIMINAL.

I have to assume you and Ken also had a traffic violation some time in your lives. Is it safe to assume you are both CRIMINALS?

Maybe in the future when addressing Ken, instead of saying Dear Ken, we just start the heading as Criminal Ken.

You guys really like to stretch things. I think it is understood by most sane people that when somebody is called a criminal it is usually for something much more serious than a traffic violation.

Many times speeders do not speed intentionally. Many times a yellow light turns red before you cross the intersection. The other day I got a ticket from the camera cop because I stopped a foot in front of the white line due to wet conditions at Bellwood and Mannheim. I guess I am a criminal because I stopped one foot past the white line on the intersection. I will pay my ticket but I don't consider myself a criminal. If you guys consider all these criminal acts, you simply lowered the threshold for criminal behaviour. Yes, all of us are criminals!

I bet you 2 guys are saints who have never committed a traffic violation. It would give you guys some credibility if you admitted you were also criminals just like the Napergate Man. No exceptions, please! Maybe you are police since police never get tickets due to professional courtesy. Not sure if the camera cops give the street cops professional courtesy. We will see how that one plays out in due time....lol!!!

I NEVER called him a criminal. I said you need to critically think. Your logic in that post did not make sense because it could be other situations but I never said it WAS those situations for that man. I just said be careful how you reason out what you say because others will say, "Ya but it can be this also." And I replied to you that way then also. And see then Brianna goes and makes a remark like that to Ken. This is what I'm talking about. Someone disagrees & you call them immature because no mature person would think what he stated. Give me a break.

And I could swear when you break the law you are a criminal? Hmmm "An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction." (Dictionary.com) ok, so it can be thought of a serious crime by some but technically, you break the law it is a crime & thus a criminal. Perhaps this is why people do break speeding laws and other laws because they no longer see them as a big deal when they should! I wonder if it was your family member who was seriously injured or killed when someone was speeding if you would not be upset & expect this "criminal" to be punished or if you would think it is no big deal then? If your beater can not pass an emmissions test it should be out of my Environment...it is a "crime" technically & in the other usage of this word for that person to disregard the air I breath & the animals on this planet. This is why we have this law...for people to follow them and if not get punished!

Ken,

You sound so immature. May I ask how old you are? I wish the Naperville Sun would require all bloggers to be at least 18 years of age before allowing them to post.

Barbie and Ken dolls should also be prohibited from posting.

Ken,
If a minor traffic violation makes you a criminal in this world, then I guess we are all criminals.

Yes, the Napergate Man was driving on a suspended license. His license was suspended without his knowledge because his 16 or 17 year older ran a toll many years ago. His notification came after his arrest as has been documented. The information was sent to former Publisher, Mr. Jim Lynch, who chose not to release as he considered it private information.

I am sure you have had some traffic violation in your life and thus you are a CRIMINAL too. Excuse me, maybe you are a SAINT!

Personally, I think it is improper to call citizens criminals because of traffic violations especially ones that don't involve a DUI. Licenses can also be suspended when your beater can't pass an emission test. That just does not sound CRIMINAL to me.

But in your distorted world which includes TB, you guys see the world through your own shaded lenses. It does not surprise me you guys are attacked so much on this blog site. It seems like you ask for it, and get what you ask for.

It seems you want to be attacked, enjoy being attacked, get adrenalin highs from being attacked, and live to be attacked as it is the only way you guys can get some attention and recognition. I think it is probably time for you guys to go out and get a life. Original Joe finally got a life outside of blogging and I see him as someone you can respect these days.

The napergate man is a criminal. He was driving on a suspended license. That was a criminal offense for wich he had to go to jail and post bond while waiting for trial. Where is the double standard? Is it the fact that the truth was told about the napergate man, and the napergatians tend to shy away from that truth?

By One Who Values You on November 21, 2008 10:49 PM
Yep...see they were right the Napergatians are the ones being mean & calling names or saying nasty things just because you disagree. Who taught you that?

==================================================================


Speaking of being mean your friends here called the Napergate Man a criminal several times on this blog site. You never condemned them. Neither did TB. You guys seem to be practicing double standards in wanting condemnations but never offering them when your own are out of line.

Let us not be so hypocritical. I suspect most bloggers can see right thru you guys.

Yep...see they were right the Napergatians are the ones being mean & calling names or saying nasty things just because you disagree. Who taught you that? You neglect to see the point! Even if you dropped from 3rd to 29th...29th! Don't you get it? I don't care if you were 3rd or 2nd in 2006! You are 29th! You think that is bad? Sure one does not like to decline and would love to stay at the top but geez it isn't like you are not making the 100 list even or you are 4568! Speaking of degrees!

Mr. "Napergate Nation,"

What you fail to understand is that if Naperville would reduce salaries by one third, pensions would be reduced by one third. We then may be able to balance the pension fund.

The current formula is not working. It is leading us to disaster. The state is only partially responsible as they did not force Naperville to give high salaries which result in high pensions. This was a city council decision and should be blamed squarely on our city council members.

Police pension deficits are estimated to have risen another 4 million to nearly 32-33 million dollars in the last year.

Fire pension deficts rose from 23 million to 26.9 million in just one year.

Most residents including but not limited to Napergatians have no interest in bailing out the P and F pension funds when their retirement funds lost hald their vaule this year.

What don't you get, Mr. "Napergate Nation?"

One Who Values You,

Naperville dipped from 3rd to 29th in one SINGLE year. OMG is an understatement. That is a hell of a dip and indicates something has gone severely wrong in our town.

Maybe the Napergatians are spot on and the rest of us are trying to figure what they seem to have known for a couple of years.

I think the drop from 3rd to 29th indicates residents are fed up with government waste and taxes through the roof.

Are you a real or phony Professor, One Who Values You.

Where did you buy your online degree from?

Naperville is ranked 29th & you want to complain...OMG!

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1285473,naperville-money-ranking-na111808.article

Whiners! What does it say about property taxes???

I really don't think that there is an $11 million dollar deficit. At the end of the day, there will be a surplus. If you want to fix pensions, change the policies in Springfield. This is an issue effecting the entire state, not just Naperville. This ranting on a blog isn't going to change Springfield. Action at Springfield is going to change Springfield.

Just because one does not live in the town does not mean they do not have ideas to be heard or bring a perspective that can be beneficial. Using your logic someone who is out of town could not make comments on any other improvements in your town...downtown visiting etc. Give me a break. You don't think other towns do not have tax pain. OMG...ya that is logic! What a martyr to think your pain is more than others. You have the worst huh!

You say you don't want pay cuts but you are saying salaries to 40K. Give me a break. Starting salaries for teachers in some areas are more than that...in fact, what are the starting salaries for the teachers in Naperville? Anyone know? And these are officers and their jobs require so much more. And pensions by 50%? Wow!

I suppose if it was schools you would cut programs also & not FIND $ to keep them. Yep & it is typically the arts first, then sports & we know the hierarchy with them also!

Oh & like the Napergatians do not pat themselves on the back. Give me a break!

A Napergation...

Your cults posts are insulting to all of our heros. I guess your taxes will have to go up to pay for these things.

Saying that you have respect for our heros is one thing. Your cults posts say otherwise.

Mr. Happy and One Who Values You,

It seems like you 2 are the same person complementing himself on the back while spreading propoganda.


"It is too bad that this napergate group holds our police/firefighters/military/teachers in such low regards. By saying that these people should cut their salaries in half means you hold little respect for these people."

The Napergate Man and Napergatians have never been involved with the military. The Napergate Man employed Commander Dan Shower for a few years and that is the extent of his involvement with any military matter. All Napergatians hold the military in the highest regard and believe they are underpaid for the sacrifices they make for our freedom.

Also Napergatians have never taken positions on teachers. My personal opinion is teachers are also underpaid.

The Napergate Man's agenda which is the same agenda of the Napergatians is to focus on government waste in the City of Naperville. That has been our agenda for 20 years and our only agenda.

We have never called for cutting anyone's salary in half. We have a lot of respect for our police and fire fighters. We are trying to help them avoid bankrupcty since their pension fund is 60 million in the hole and getting worse by the year despite doubling their pension contributions with 2 times matching funds from our taxpayer money.

We have called for a reduction of pay for starting public safety employees to 40k. We are asking the state to reduce pension beneifts to 50%. We are not asking for current police and fire to take pay-cuts unless we reach the point of bankruptcy. At that point we will have to ask for pay-cuts and layoffs across the board.

This is not about respect. It is about the bottom line. Why don't you guy(s) tell us how to reduce the 60 million p @ f pension fund deficit and 11 million dollar operating budget. Shooting your mouths off especially since you are from out of town and not feeling the tax pain we are, make you NOT CREDIBLE. It sounds like you guys are out of town trouble makers who have no reason to be here blogging with us.

Get some lives or life and stop patting each other or yourself on the back. Whichever it may be!


Hey Mr. Happy...

Yes & I agree with you. How do you put a price tag on an officer who stops a DUI that may have killed many, or just one life...what is that worth? If they earned their salaries on the potential value they saved can you imagine! Then they would be in Mansions! :-) Not to mention all the other things they do that are above & beyond the job description. I'm not sure I'd put the teachers first in that list but thank you! :-)

Hey One Who Values You...

I agree with you completely. As does the vast majority of Napervillians. You see these people don't use facts to back up their statements-they only use emotion. What they don't seem to understand is that if both sides cannot agree on a contract an arbitrator comes in and makes the decision. Too bad for them we have a council that values peoples lives and will continue to give these heros fair raises every year.

Our heros deserve every penny that they make.

The best thing is is that Obama is a STRONG union supporter. The napergate cult have been really fired up lately because of this. My guess is that our heros salaries will continue to go up-teachers,police,firefighters. He even mentioned it during his campaign.

Hey Mr. Happy...you happy because you have a contract? :-) I know I am!

I totally agree. What a way to say we are grateful for all they do. I can just imagine those same peole who are suggesting this amount would be complaining if they were told their salary would decrease that same percentage. Is that the only way to say thank you? No...but heck people do not even give a verbal thank you most of the time. It is easy to point fingers & complain when you do not have to do the work. True of any job/career. If the people complaining had to do the job for even one day they would have a very different perspective. Heck, they should be paid more just to deal with the people complaining here. Can you imagine what they are like when they see an officer now? If they were pulled over etc.

Tim reread that paragraph. You leave your reading to suggest your are discussing that time period. You say you survived at this time, things came down etc. Be much more clearer then but that is NOT an exageration as the person I am contacting. That is someone not understanding you are switching the time period because the beginning of your paragraph does not state a different time period. "that time period" is the issue. If you said, "Then in 2002-2003 rents came down" or "The prior year in 2002-2003" then the reader knows what you started with is different. Best way is to state the time period in the beginning of your paragraph & it is clear.

No I do not live in Naperville but have family who do & some very close & I do visit frequently.

I totally agree on the you will never get salaries lower with a union. Same with teachers. You may get very little raise but that can be a problem also. You don't want ugly negotiations. Personally, I'd hate to be the person pulled over with an officer not too happy he did not get a raise. :-)

My point is it is comparable when you look at other towns. That is why I posted Decatur also. The salaries do not really seem out of line for being a bigger & wealthier town. Now OT is a different matter & I suspect the Chief is making the point that it is quite different than hiring more assembly line jobs to avoid OT. Officers can't just switch in the middle of something & let the next person coming on shift to take care of the matter. They have to still do their reports on the portion they did and so much more. Not like you stop the machine & the next one sits down & starts it back up again. You know even others are being layed off & fired & guess what...others are picking up the slack & getting OT if the company has OT. Not too smart of them. Of course you have the cost of benefits, training etc. but still doesn't always work out for the benefit.

Police have a UNION contract. The union would never agree to a salary decrease. So bringing up the point of "Lets pay them $40K per year" is a stupid point. The union would never agree to do this-neither would a government arbitrator-so get over it and move on.

It is too bad that this napergate group holds our police/firefighters/military/teachers in such low regards. By saying that these people should cut their salaries in half means you hold little respect for these people.

One Who Values You:

"No one will listen to your point if you are exaggerating & stating things the person has not said."

Unfortunately, that is part of what you did to me. You appear to have read too much into my post. Nowhere did I say that I was living on $35-40K for all of 2000-2003; I just stated that rents came down during that time period and have increased in relatively small amounts since then. Even this year, the rent for the apartment I recently vacated only went up $20. However, since you appear to be curious, I did continue to live on that amount for a couple of years beyond 2003. I'm doing better now, but like most Americans, I continue to mostly live paycheck-to-paycheck. I don't blame the cost of living in Naperville for that; I blame the cost of living everywhere. I still continue to believe that I get a lot for my dollar by living in a modest home in Naperville.

You did not make your basis of comparison clear for gas prices. Exactly what "other counties" are you referencing? Are gas prices higher in DuPage than in Kendall or Grundy? Sure. But in my observation, they're still comparable to much of Kane and Will, and lower than Lake. (Being lower than Cook County should go without saying.) And if you live closer to work, you're spending less on gas anyway.

You wanted approximate numbers on cost of living. I provided them, as a Naperville resident who has rented for several years. I would like to know where you live. It seems from some of your comments ("What is the avg rent for an apt in Naperville? Anyone got that number? I know your gas prices are considerably higher there.") that you do not live in Naperville.

I believe that our public service employees--police, firemen and teachers--are worth paying a living wage that is competitive for the area. I agree that reducing starting salary would cause good officers to look elsewhere. The question is where to draw the line. I believe that overtime is more of a problem than starting salary. According to the article Ted posted, our police chief and the president of the Naperville Fraternal Order of Police "don't think" that hiring additional officers would significantly reduce overtime. I'd like to see some hard numbers on that.

Last Anonymous (after mine) Logic is NOT Stupid. Where did you see me say EVERYONE who works in Naperville should live in Naperville? I did not say everyone! No the guy working at a donut shop probably should not be...but maybe it is just me that values officers & teachers better than working a retail job in the shops in Naperville. Am I downing them NO! But quite frankly you do not need the training perhaps a Bachelors to work in the shops. Do some, yes but that is our financial situation now. So who is retarded here. And btw you do not base levels of intelligence on answering one question right or wrong otherwise everyone on this list would be qualified for this label assign! This suggest less intelligence with that. I NEVER said they are valued as high as an athlete. Where do you get that. Look back I said they should not be living in Mansions & I said they know that! That is not the reason they went into it. Yes those towns that are higher in revenue do pay their cops more! I never said they should be making millions...talk about flawed logic/comprehension & exaggeration. I said they should be making comparable or to the other towns. If Decatur which is lower economically than Naperville is paying their cops higher than you that is flawed logic. No one will listen to your point if you are exaggerating & stating things the person has not said.

Hey Professor,

Your logic is stupid. Not everyone who works in Naperville can afford to live in Naperville, should have to live in Naperville or should be entitled to live in Naperville.

Many employees in Naperville can't afford to live in Naperville. They live in Romeoville, Bolingbrook, Plainfield, Warrenville and Aurora. Many business owners I know personally have moved to Plainfield as they can not afford Naperville.

Your logic is so stupid it is borderline retarded. No one is better than anyone else. No one thinks they are better than cops. But you seem to think cops are better than business owners, McDonald's employees, bank employees, young executives all who work in Naperville and can not live in Naperville.

A cop is no better or worse than any profession. A cop should be paid what a cop is worth and not based on the wealth of the community. According to your flawed logic and critical thinking we should pay cops in Lake Forest, Kenilworth, and Highland Park a million dollars each so they can afford to live next to Michael Jordan and many other athletes making millions of dollars. Maybe we should pay the cops in Hollywood 20 million dollars a month to keep up with Tom Cruise.

Many Naperville cops live in Bolingbrook and have no problem with that, Professor! What is your problem?

Do you have 60 million dollars on you to balance the P and F pension fund deficits? Probably not! And you want to make the situation worse instead of better. Have you had a check to see if your bearings are still functional? Honestly, you insult the intelligence of a 1st grader with your critical thinking that could only lead us to bankruptcy.

I just looked at a bunch of apt postings & there were very few for that amount. 2000-2003 on 35-40K if very different in almost 2009! Heck just in this last year things have changed drastically. Gas in DuPage is much higher than other counties & that is my point. If you make less you would want to live elsewhere with lower rent...heck even getting a 2 bedroom for $800 or whatever. They can't get a one bedroom if they have children! Why be "fine" & live paycheck to paycheck in Naperville when you might live elsewhere...but point is that they should not have to. They are serving & protecting Naperville citizens...they should not be treated as less. No I'm not expecting them to live in Mansions & they do not expect that either. Heck, if they wanted to have big house & expensive cars they would not have gone into police work...similar to teachers, you are certainly not going to be living in a mansion! You do it for very different reasons but that does not mean you should be also at the other end. You should take care of your police & teachers etc very well. They put up with so much from society. If you only knew all the details of what they put up with & go through...quite frankly you can't even put a price on it...nothing is enough some days trust me! Just because you do it for "the right reasons" does not mean you do not care about $ at all. They seek out like anyone else a place/location which pays better, that is a better environment to work in, an area they want their children to grow up in & be happy, healthy, have a better education than maybe they had etc. It is quite simple, as you lower your starting salary the better officers will just logically apply for areas with higher salaries. The better ones will get those jobs. It is no different than any area of employment.

Lets see...they can go to...Decatur...

http://www.ci.decatur.il.us/police/salarybenefits.htm

BASE SALARY: Patrol Officer $45,832 to $60,209 effective 05/01/08 (new contract year starting in May 2009).

LONGEVITY: Longevity is contractually a percentage of the base pay, based on years of service. The longevity increases are at 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 years of service and increase the Patrol Officers salary up to $67,434 for a Patrol Officer, effective 5/1/2008 (new contract year starting in May 2009).

SERGEANT: Sergeant starting base rate is $66,384 and increases to up to $71,050 after 6 months($69,039 up to $73,892 in May 2008). Longevity increases that top end pay range to $82,759, effective 5/1/2008 (new contract year starting in May 2009).

Ya...lets see Decatur & Naperville are Twins! They look so much alike. I think I'll take my trips to shop in Decatur from now on instead of Naperville. Now if Decatur starts at 45K...why should Naperville be at 40K?

From City-Data.com

2007 data

Population:
Naperville 142.5K
Decatur 76.5K

Estimated Median Household Income:
Naperville 96.5K
Decatur 39K

Median Household/Condo Value:
Naperville 408K
Decatur 78K

Median Gross Rent:
Naperville 1,141
Decatur 585

Yep, makes perfect sense for Naperville to pay their officers less or about the same as Decatur!

Police overtime is one issue and it must be addressed. While overtime is a costly issue it is no where near as expensive of a line item as the total police payroll or the total cost of benefits or the total cost of retirement.

Starting salaries and current pay scale salaries are simply way too inflated compared to the prevailing wages paid to officers in other towns throughout the metro area. Don't think for a minute that officers in these other towns aren't pointing a finger at Naperville and putting pressure on their city boards to pay them equal to what we pay or threatening to leave and come here, then they raise their rates, we raise our rates and it all ends up being a vicious circle. There should be a prevailing rate for government workers throughout the metro area. They are all union workers so they should be familiar with the concept. Local government should not be competing with each other based upon rate of pay.

If the rate of pay was equal throughout the entire metro area we would still have plenty of competition for any openings just because being a police officer in Naperville is and mostly likely always will be a plum job.

Adjusting pay to prevailing averages and cutting all of the fat and waste out of staffing levels must be the first priority. Second priority is for the city council to give the police chief about half of the current police overtime as a budget line item. If that means all of the major events in Naperville have to hire private security for their events, so be it. If that means the Police Chief needs to get in his car and go meet with the chief judge to find less costly ways for the NPD to appear in court, so be it. If that means the Police Chief needs to improve scheduling of time off, vacation, etc to avoid overtime, so be it.

Police overtime is not a blank check underwritten by the citizens of Naperville no matter what the cost. Police overtime is budget line item, period. Police Chief's are hired based upon their ability to manage the entire department. Managing the entire department includes managing the finances. If the Police Chief can not or will not manage police overtime to keep the expenditure within the limits established by the city council then it is time for the City Manager to find a new Police Chief. Possibly one who has better financial management skills.

Personally I am disgusted and fed up with all of the fat and waste. It is time for all Naperville citizens to stand up and demand change. For way too long we have tolerated lazy, ineffective municipal management that has been promoted from within and only serve to protect their former co-workers. This is not leadership and it certainly isn't good government. It is bad government and it is a form of corruption jsut as bad as bribes and kick-backs. We desperately need new managers throughout all departments that have no ties to the past and who are not afraid to lead their department into the future in a way that places the best interest of the Naperville taxpayers above their own selfish self-interests.

By Anon - “It appears to me, Host Ted, that TB and Ken spend too much time on your blog site reading, writing and posting.”

Pot meet kettle.

T.B.

Chuck –

As for the OT, I have often stated (on a previous thread) that I think the fests should pay for their own NPD OT for security. I disagree, however, on the fests relying completely on private security for the fests in the name of safety. Have the cops and firemen at the fests, just pay their OT from the fests’ profits. I’m sure there will still be plenty of money for the charities after the OT expenses.

Having the Culture Fund reimburse the fest organizers for the OT cost is nothing more than indirect city support for the benefiting charities. Nobody would be in favor of the city cutting a check directly to the charity, so why allow the city to do so through the fest organizers?

In fact, I’d be more than happy if the city did away with the Culture Fund and tax altogether. The city council decided to tax us without even being able to define what they believe is “culture”. It’s so sad it’s laughable. It sounds more like a slush fund to me.

As for the patience of judges, most judges’ calendars are crammed full and they don’t want to wait on any witnesses, defense or prosecution. They may have more patience for the prosecution than the defense, but the difference is minimal.

T.B.

One Who Values You, re cost of living:

"For example, why would you be even living in Naperville making 35K! That is not logical at all. Why would you pay the higher rent, gas prices etc living in Naperville if you can not afford to live there."

I survived just fine on $35-40K in Naperville for a few years. It made the most sense because of where I worked and went to school. I didn't have huge amounts of debt to service, and I lived paycheck to paycheck, but I still found that I got more for my dollar living in Naperville than in other nearby towns. Utility bills are lower; Naperville electric rates have historically been 20% lower than ComEd, with much more reliable service. Generally, city services are better in Naperville. Downtown is nicer; Warrenville doesn't even have a downtown to speak of. Rents at some apartment complexes in the northwest part of Naperville actually came down in 2000-2003, and many complexes held the line on increases for quite a while in order to keep units full during a time when anybody who could fog up a mirror could get a zero-down mortgage. Between 2003 and 2008, my rent only went up 8.25%. And I wasn't living in a dump. Gas prices are higher in Naperville? I've found them to be lower than most other places in DuPage, especially near Route 59 and North Aurora Rd. As far as average rents in Naperville these days: A typical 1BR seems to go for $850, but you can find them for well under $800 if you know where to look.

This is not as expensive a town as some might lead you to believe. If you don't have a down payment for a home, there is no stigma in renting. I'm glad I chose to live in Naperville.

Allegations abound on both sides as to what the truth of the matter is with regard to when Naperville Police officers need to be in court.

The facts of what the court requires or demands as well as what the law requires are not clear. The article while nice does not help resolve these allegations from a factual basis.

If other municipalities are able to operate differently, then Napeville taxpayers have every right to know why the rules are applied differently to the NPD. If judges are squandering police overtime Naperville taxpayers have every right to know why. More importantly Naperville taxpayers need to know what can be done to stop needless waste.

Right now there are lots of questions and very few answers. The average citizen is very unfamiliar with the inner workings of the court system and most I suspect prefer to stay that way. As a result the average taxpayer doesn't know who or what to believe.

Is there a problem or isn't there? Is there waste or isn't there?

By Ken on November 6, 2008 12:34 AM
It sure helped to repost that article, Ted. You got about the same response as you did last time you posted it. Posting facts just does not seem to work for the napergatians

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken,

This article was a poorly written one-sided story that allowed Chief David Dial and President Joe Matchett to blame the 1 million dollar plus police OT in courtrooms, on the Chief Judge of Dupage County.

The reporter interviewed 2 officials from the same side and did not allow the Chief Judge to tell his side of they story. He did not even attempt to call the Chief Judge. That in my opinion is biased reporting that amounts to propoganda for the establishment.

It is highly doubtful that the Chief Judge requires the presence of police officers when they clearly are not needed during the morning status hearings held for example in Room 4002. He requires them to be there when they are needed and not when they are not needed.

The Naperville Police make a token presence to collect their 3 hours of OT at 830am knowing they are not needed. Let me explain! Once when I was in Rm 4002 there must have been 50 or more cases. The Judges finished the first 25 cases and took a break at 10:00am. None of the officers were called on the first 25 cases.

After the break, the Judge finished the remaining 25 or 30 cases. All the Naperville police officers never returned after the break. They all went home collecting 3 hours of OT for working 1.5 hours. Thus in essence they collected triple time and not only time and a half.

Both the pre-break and post-break cases were all status or pleas of guilty. Almost identical in nature and very similar.

If the Chief Judge requires the NPD to be in these courtrooms, why did the 15 Naperville police officers leave after the 10am break! Obviously he does not require them to be in a courtroom unless they are called upon to testify. They know, I know, the Judge knows, the prosecutor knows and the defense attorney knows, that they will only be called to testify if a defendent demands a jury or bench trial and the Judge awards him one that afternoon or another day. But it will never happen in the morning amongst 50-60 status and plea cases.

Anyone can go and observe what I observed. You will see what I saw. Whether this practice will suddenly stop because I am pointing it here on Ted's Threads is possible. But it has been ongoing for years.

The Naperville Sun needs to cover Courtroom 4002 once in a while and obtain independent corroboration to what I am stating. Yes, a reporter in the right place at the right time making the right observations can save the taxpayers one million dollars. Believe me, Host Ted!!!

If I were you, I would have one of your reporters call the Chief Judge and ask him when a cop is required to be in court and when a cop is not required to be in court. He needs to ask specific and directed questions such is a cop required to be in court if a status hearing is only taking place?

He needs to ask the Chief Judge if cops are suppose to be there during status hearings, why are all the other towns in Dupage disobeying him except for Naperville. Is it possible 75 police departments in Dupage are all breaking the law for not being in these status hearing courtrooms and only Naperville is following the letter and spirt of the law??? I find that highly unlikely but I could be wrong. It is a possibility!

Here is what Matchett said,

"DuPage County requires police officers to be in
court," Matchett said.

This is a very vague statement that Ken is interpreting as fact. The reporter should have asked a follow up queston such as when does DuPage County require the police officers to be in court....all of the time, some of the time, when they need to testify or any time one of their cases comes up for status. We need some clarification here.

If his statement is true, then 15 Naperville Police Officers broke the rules(maybe law) when they left after the 10:00am break despite half their cases not being called or heard yet!

It appears to me, Host Ted, that TB and Ken spend too much time on your blog site reading, writing and posting. They need to get out in the real world and observe as Napergatians appear to do before posting.

TB and Ken want to be authorities on all subjects even when they have little to no knowledge. They can't even differentiate a statement made by a biased official from fact. They criticise with no basis. They attack others and wonder why they are counter-attacked.

A blog site is suppose to informative. Not a place where you start arguments with everyone. It is apparent to me that TB and Ken enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing as has been said by many others before me and will be said by many others after me. Those are my observations.

By T.B. on November 5, 2008 10:03 PM
Ted –


I hate to tell you, Chuck, but if you want the Culture Fund money to go to the NPD OT fund and not the city’s general fund, you should call your favorite city councilman.......


------------------------------------------------------------------

TB,

I think you totally missed my point. Whether this phony reimbursement goes to the general fund or NPD OT Fund does not concern me the least bit, because the effect on the total budget to the Naperville taxpayers is exactly the same.

That was the least of my concerns. My concern is that this money that was used for reimbursement came from the taxpayers initially and not from the proceeds of the event organizers. It came in the form of a 100k from the 1% cultural fund, given to the charities, and then returned to the city for police OT....again it does not matter what line it was put on. It was a sham!

The event organizers never paid for the police OT at their charities. The taxpayers did! That is what bothers me.

If you are doing a profit and loss statement, regardless of what line you put an expense on as long as it is an expense, the effect on the bottom line will be exactly the same.

Here we have the same scenario. It does not matter what line we put this reimbursement on. We were not truly reimbursed. We were reimbursed with money we gave them to reimburse us. Thus they had free use of our police officers at OT rates. We the taxpayers paid for this in full.

The effect on our budget is a negative -100,000 dollars to the taxpayer no matter which way you slice it.

Don't be confused by the semantics in the article that the establishment is using to confuse the taxpayer.

Put in layman's terms, the charities screwed us out of a 100k for police OT! Yes we paid for it and not them! As I said it was a SHAM TRANSACTION.

I hope you get it, TB!

Bottom line our budget deficit would have been 5 million he RED instead of 5.1 million in the RED, if the event organizers paid for this OT out of their pockets instead of our pocekts!

I am sure Host Ted understands exactly what I am talking about. Maybe he can explain it better to you, TB!

It sure helped to repost that article, Ted. You got about the same response as you did last time you posted it. Posting facts just does not seem to work for the napergatians.

Darlene, the prosecutor in Downers Grove lied to you. If the police officer does not show up for the court date assigned to you, the case gets thrown out. I had the Naperville prosecutor try to tell me a similar lie to get me to plead guilty to a ticket. My limited knowledge of the law allowed me to have a very angry prosecutor dismiss the ticket. Next time, stand your ground and don't think just because someone is any type of law official they are going to tell you the truth.

Ted –

Thanks for the reprint of the April 2008 article. It was very informative.

As to the OT, the problem isn’t that the court wants the cops to be present; it’s that the reimbursed OT (from fests and also DUI surcharge) goes into the city’s general fund and not the NPD OT fund. Common sense dictates that a reimbursement go to the same account that made the original expenditure.

I hate to tell you, Chuck, but if you want the Culture Fund money to go to the NPD OT fund and not the city’s general fund, you should call your favorite city councilman and not the US Attorney’s Office. The US Attorney is not going to investigate this as it is done in the open and thus NOT A FRAUD. It sucks and isn’t right, but if the politicians tell us they’re going to do it and we keep voting for them, the only people to blame is ourselves.

T.B.

By T.B. on November 4, 2008 10:59 PM

While I agree that a NPD cop could make it to a Wheaton courthouse in an hour or less, this assumes that 1) the judge will wait (and many judges I’ve seen are the impatient type) and 2) that there’s someone to cover the NPD officer’s shift while he’s gone. Who’s going to respond to the calls when the cop is called to court? You have to make sure his shift is sufficiently covered, right?


____________________________________________________________________


1.Judges are not very patient with defendents. You are right my friend if this is what you meant. They are much more patient with police and prosecutors. That is very easy to observe. A judge will gladly wait for a police officer to arrive. A judge hates to waste taxpayer money on defendents most of whom are guilty and many of whom are losers...especially the DUI offenders!

2. I believe the solution to number 2 was discussd by the Napergatians. It is simple! It is much cheaper to have one roving patrol officer who could fill in when and if the CALL comes than 15 police officers collecting OT sitting in court seeing if the lottery will hit as a result of one of their arrestees wanting to challenge the system....or ask for a jury trial....a real rarity in the real court system.

Please use critical thinking as our resident psychiatrist suggests, TB. Is it cheaper to have 15 police officers making 6 hours of OT on court dates, or having one additional roving police officer fill in for any police officer who MAY be called to testify one afternoon?

From what I have seen, TB, you seem pretty intelligent and I don't have to spell out the answer for you.

Another proposal put forward by the Napergatians is to get our own Court Fieldhouse like Aurora and Downers Grove. Naperville is the largest city in Dupage. It should have its own Fieldhouse to take some pressure off the Dupage Courthouse which seems overwhelmed due to population increase.

Having our own Fieldhouse Courtroom would also save residents much time, gas and missed time off work. It benefits both police and citizens. And the Field Courthouse will not cost us a penny if we decide to use the Municipal Chambers which are not in use on Tuesdays which is the court day designated for most Napervillians.

Let us try to be smart with our money and end the budget crisis. Attacking the Napergatians who are coming up with the most solutions is tasteless.

I would like to see opposing bloggers come up with their own solutions if they don't like the Napergate solutions to get out of this status quo fiscal budget crisis disaster we are in. It is senseless to attack Napergatians for their ideas and solutions even if you don't like them.

Ugh...people...ok you want to include pensions...you put in sick leave & personal days for pensions for teachers it also increases from what I posted. Pension is great but that is later & god only knows what it amounts to later with standard of living increases. What is their take home pay? What do they have to live on to pay rent, gas, food, cloth their child etc. You can't just use that larger number by itself. You have to think about what they are living on. Yes, some may be single & live with mom or dad & someone how nice they got it but not all have that situation. What is the avg rent for an apt in Naperville? Anyone got that number? I know your gas prices are considerably higher there.

Joe Matchett, president of the Naperville Fraternal Order of Police,
Lodge No. 42, said event organizers must reimburse the city for the
overtime paid to officers.

"But it does not come back into the police overtime
budget," Matchett said. "That money goes back to the
general fund."

____________________________________________________________________


Let me see if I get this. We give these event organizers 100k from the cultural fund, that is derived from a special 1% sales tax imposed on the residents, to pay for police overtime and then they return the money to the general fund and it appears like they paid for the police overtime out of their proceeds and not the taxpayers pockets.

If this is not a sham, I don't know what is! This should be investigated by the US Attorney's office as it is an inappropriate use of taxpayer funds without proper transparency and in a very deceitful manner!

Does this police dept. and city think the residents are IGNORANT?

I think the proper solutions is the one the Napergatians proposed.

The event organizers should hire private security for their events and stop using taxpayer money for their private events. Enough is enough! The city has a serious budget deficit and a huge pension fund deficit. If that is not a good enough reason, I don't know what is!

Let us face it if these event orgnaizers had to truly pay for security, they would hire private security at 15 to 20 dollars per hour instead of pay police OT at a rate of $75 to $100 dollar per rate. I assume these events are legitimate charities and understand it is their duty to maximize the contributions to those in need and not minimize the contributions.

If the event organizers insist on police, they need to consider hiring non-Naperville cops where OT would not be an issue. OT only is incurred if the work is for the same employer. Not 2 different employers.

Paying Naperville Police OT at outrageous rates, minimizes the final contributions to the poor and needy. Let us use some critical thinking here as the Professor has suggested!

Chief Dial and Host Ted,

If it is important to have all these cops downtown, why are they only there the exact time the high schools are closed.

Why are they not assigned to downtown based on need and activities in the downtown area?

For example, there are no bike cops in downtown Naperville during Memorial Day or Labor Day when schools are still in session. The cops are still working at the schools during those periods. There is no more or less problems in the downtown area whether these bike cops are there or not there during those periods for example. I would suspect there is even more drinking on these Holidays than during a regular summer weekend.

If it is true they are needed, then it appears Chief Dial is negligent in his duties the other 3 months when the downtown is also very busy between May 1 to Sept 30 when the cruising law is in full force due to the heavy activity of the downtown area. Those dates were determined by our City Officials as the time when the downtown was busy and not by me. They are posted everywhere downtown!

Let us face it....the Chief has those cops downtown on bikes to give them work when the schools are closed. Mrs. Police Officer admitted that right on this blog site. Did Mrs. Police Officer lie to us? I doubt it! She seemed the most honest blogger I have encountered on this site so far!

Those school cops should be trained or retrained in a way to relieve overworked officers who have accumulated a lot of overtime during the year. If the overworked cops are given some time off, they can rest and we can avoid having to pay OT. The school cops can perform this function perfectly. Having cops earn an average of $109,000 due to OT is ridiculous especially when they will be collecting a pension for 40 or 50 years based on that insane number after they reach their early 50s. For example our City Manager who is a former cop is collecting $85,500. All at taxpayer expense while being gainfully employed by the Naperville taxpayers.

If taxes seem high, wait until we become grandparents and our grandchildren become adults. Then you will see high taxes when we are trying to subsidize the pensions of 400 police and firemen instead of about 60 right now. Of course we will have to file bankruptcy just like the California cities. Our city council members appear to have no vision for the future. Their mathematical skills appear out of use. Blogger Maryann showed us how we will have a $1,400,400,000 dollar pension cost in the next 40 years if salaries and pensions do not increase. If they increase as expected, out pension costs will top 2 billion. How come our Finance Director does not dispute her numbers if they are inaccurate? I am sure they are accurate and that is why he is hiding with no response. He should have went with Burchard to Florida!

Why are these school bike cops always found in groups of 2 to 4 socializing with each other downtown. They are not even spread out to cover the downtown area in a better way if they were truly needed.

How can they learn about drug activities from the teenagers if they are talking to each other instead of the teenagers who it is claimed here by the critical thinkers have direct connections with the Columbia Cartel and the Afghanistan poppy farmers...lol...
They may find out one or two grew a few marijuna plants in there back yard at most. There is always the exceptions such as a gang banger buying a few ounces and trying to sell them as nickel bags!

What really bothers me is that the Napergatians come here to give practical solutions to our budget crisis. They discuss the budget crisis. Suddenly the city supporters instead of coming up with counter proposals attack the Napergatians with name calling. How shameful that this is allowed to happen on your threads, Host Ted!

How shameful Host Ted that you would allow a WooWoo to state that the Napergate Man sells liquor to minors and a Whacko Professor use critical nonsense to insinuate he may have built a strip center he owns from bribes for six packs of beer from minors, who are collecting their coins to attempt to see how well their fraudulent IDs work at a liquor establishment.

I recall Moderator Jim would occassionly come on and scold the whackos and goof heads on your blog site. I think it is time you come on and scolded all the woowoos, coocoos, who are leached on to the Napergatians like parasites with nothing better to do.

Adios for now!

Host Ted,

I was in the Downers Grove Fieldhouse a while back. The room was overflowing and there was only one cop or court bailiff who looked like a cop to keep order in the court room.

It was pretty much what Gail said. Everyone lined up, pleading guilty in alphabetical order, and getting supervision unless they had many prior convicitions.

I decided to plead innocent. I was told to come back in the afternoon and to try to discuss it with the States Attorney or Prosecutor.

I told the prosecutor I would like a trial. He said the cop could not make it today and he would have to ask for a continuance. I asked if the cop would be there at the next session. He said he could not guarantee that.

He suggested I plead guilty and get supervision instead of wasting all my time coming and going to court from Naperville over a 75 dollar ticket resulting from a red light turning yellow on me before I could clear it.

I agreed since it was really a petty matter that would not affect my insurance. This is how the system works. No one is going to get a jury trial for a minor ticket of any sort. The system will make you come back a few times to tire you out. If you don't tire out, they will dismiss it before they waste taxpayer resources on a trial by jury.

Thus I agree with Gail that these Naperville cops are collecting their overtime unnecessarily and costing us 1.4 million dollars annually that we can save. We are in a budget crises and we need to cut these unnecessary expenses. As the professor states, we need to use some critical thinking in City Hall. That is where the critical thinking is needed....not with the Napergatians who seem to show a lot of logic and common sense as to how we can get our budget to balance again!

"DuPage County requires police officers to be in
court," Matchett said. "We've tried to
streamline some things to make it easier on officers as far as
physically being in court. The chief judge wants things to be done a
certain way as a far as DUI offenders and so on. Criminal matters and traffic matters require us to be there."

__________________________________________________________________

Host Ted,

Your story was unbalanced. It was one sided and did not give the second side. It quoted the police chief and Matchett and did not bother to quote any court officials.

Of course, if a defendent demands a DUI trial, the police officer who arrested and charged him needs to be present. That is a no brainer.

However every morning, we have 100 to 400 residents in various courtrooms in Dupage, especially on Tuesday for what amounts to status hearings and pleas of guilty. The police sit in the jury box, collect OT, and are never called. No one testifies including police during a status hearing. The defendant is simply asked by the Judge if he understands what he has just pled to, which means he is coughing up his right to both a jury and bench trial. No police officer is required to be called or called. This is a fact that can be observed by anyone who has been in these courtrooms which amounts to tens of thousands of Napervillians over the years. Other towns don't have police at these status hearings. Why, if it is truly required? It is not! Matchett is simply misinterpreting the Judge's rules in a way to enrich his police officers! He apparently thinks the residents are naive or ignorant.

Common sense would indicate that a Judge is not going to hold a one day or even one hour trial for any defendent while 100 to 400 residents are in the court room waiting for a status hearing or their turn to plead guilty.

The few who demand a trial are asked to show up at 130pm in the afternoon after lunch. That is when we need cops to show up. And not 15 but the one or two who charged the one or two for DUI or whatever. Having one cop show up for OT in the afternoon when he is needed is a great savings over having 15 cops show up all day and collect 6 hours of OT.

To me this seems like common sense. Other towns seem to have common sense. They know exactly what the Chief Judge meant when he said he wants officers in court to testify when necessary. The Chief Judge never said he wants officers in court all the time collecting OT at taxpayers expense observing roll call on status hearings. Does Matchett even know what a status hearing is? Has he ever even been to a courtroom? I doubt a Naperville Police Officer would ever give him a ticket once he identified himself. Maybe if he got his first ticket, he would know what happens in a courtroom. I doubt Chief Dial has ever received a ticket either and is also clueless as to what happens in the courtrooms in the morning. This blog site may be the closest they will get to learning about our judcial system.

The problem with this thread is the Napergatians make too much sense and City Supporters have no response....except that maybe the Napergate Man took a bribe to sell Joe six pack a beer 2 decades ago. As a good Host, you need to keep your bloggers focused on the issue at hand....which is police incompetence leading to a waste of taxpayer money! That is the issue, Host Ted! Please emphasize it to the new critical thinkers on your blog site!

Anonymous,

We posed the question to Chief Dial, and he did respond. Here's our report:

Newspaper: SUN PUBLICATIONS
Date: 04/20/2008
Day of Week: Sunday
Edition: THENAPSUN
Section: AROUND TOWN
Page: 4
Headline: Chief says that's the nature of the job
Byline: By Mike Mitchell
Credit: mmitchell@scn1.com
PhotoBy: Kate Szrom / Staff photographer
Caption: Naperville police officer John Reed processes a suspect through the city jail for an outstanding warrant during his night shift April 12. The Police Department expects to spend about $3 million on overtime this year, partly because police officer "is not an 8 to 5 job," Police Chief David Dial says.

Related Photo 1:
/FVPHOTOS/NAPERVILLE/2008/04_20/6_1_NA20_OVERTIME_P1.txt


A Naperville police detective earned $45,900 in overtime pay last
year, a Sun investigation has found.

The unnamed officer's overtime pay contributed to his overall
salary of $122,402 for 2007. Police overtime costs totaled $3.2
million last year, and the City Council wants costs reduced by 5
percent to about $3 million this year.

Naperville police officials hope to reduce costs without compromising
public safety.

"I heard the City Council say two things," Police Chief
David Dial said. "I heard one, decrease overtime by 5 percent
and two, do not put public safety at risk. So we're going to
do the best we can with the mandate to regulate overtime, but if
something happens that we absolutely need overtime just like any
other department, we'll have to do it."

Murder investigation

Police overtime accounts for nearly 0.8 percent of the city's
$385 million budget for 2008-2009. The Police Department costs the
city $36.7 million a year, or about 10 percent of the budget.

The starting salary for an officer is $54,437, according to a
document the city provided in response to a Freedom of Information
Act request by The Sun. Typically, a step 1 officer will make about
$2,766 in overtime per year. There are 189 sworn police officers in
the department, and the city issues pay according to an officers
level of experience, called steps.

On the high end, the top Naperville police patrol officer earned
$109,971 total in 2007, with $25,964 in overtime earnings.

Overtime pay accounts for about 14 percent of an average Naperville
officer's overall salary for the upcoming fiscal year.

For comparison, an Aurora officer's overtime pay makes up
about 20 percent of his or her annual salary, according to Alex
Alexandrou, human resources director for the city of Aurora.
Aurora's population is currently estimated to be about 170,000
people compared to Naperville's 142,000.

According to a report that lists the top 100 earners in the city for
2007, 38 members of the Naperville police department, 37 of which are
officers, made overall salaries more than $100,000 - about 20
percent of the whole department.

Dial said senior officers, detectives and special units are among the
highest earners in overtime pay because their circumstances
necessitate extra hours.

"For example, the homicide investigation we recently had. The
detectives and patrol officers that we have are going to keep working
and they have hot leads to follow up on, we're going to keep
following them up," Dial said of the investigation into a
murder that occurred off 87th Street. John D. Rosales, 23, died April
1 after he was shot in the neck. Naperville police arrested five
suspects and charges were filed within 32 hours of the incident.

"We're not going to just stop in the middle of an
investigation and not catch people. We're going to keep
going," Dial said.

Staffing festivals

There are other circumstances when police earn overtime.

Dial said staffing needs are a major issue. One Naperville police
officer is currently serving in Iraq and another is heading to Iraq
in May. Six more officers are expected to retire or leave the
department at the end of this year and Dial cannot make new hires
until the outgoing officers' last day, according to the
city's municipal code, which could be overhauled at the next
council meeting.

Overtime is distributed to cover shifts and make up for smaller
staffs.

Officers are also paid overtime for special events like Ribfest, Last
Fling and some of the various charity runs that take place in the
city. Officers who work these events on their days off may work up to
12 hours of overtime per day.

Joe Matchett, president of the Naperville Fraternal Order of Police,
Lodge No. 42, said event organizers must reimburse the city for the
overtime paid to officers.

"But it does not come back into the police overtime
budget," Matchett said. "That money goes back to the
general fund."

Court costs

Court appearances are among the most common reasons an officer earns
overtime. An officer is given overtime for each court appearance for
a minimum of three hours at time-and-a-half and can earn up to six
hours of overtime pay. Dial said officers often appear in court on
their days off or before their shifts begin.

For the upcoming fiscal year, nearly $1.4 million is budgeted in
court and holiday overtime pay for the department. It is 6.24 percent
of an average officer's overall salary.

"DuPage County requires police officers to be in
court," Matchett said. "We've tried to
streamline some things to make it easier on officers as far as
physically being in court. The chief judge wants things to be done a
certain way as a far as DUI offenders and so on. Criminal matters and
traffic matters require us to be there."

DUI arrests

Each year, Naperville ranks high among Illinois towns that make the
most DUI arrests. In 2006, 808 DUI arrests were made - the
tops in the state outside of Chicago, according to the Alliance
Against Intoxicated Motorists. Dial said DUI enforcement is
imperative because "there's always been an emphasis on
anything that can impact or affect public safety."

"In this community, more people are killed or injured in
traffic accidents than in all crimes combined," he said.

Dial said many officers are given overtime pay to specifically make
DUI arrests.

"The courts award us surcharge money to specifically combat
drunk driving, and we have an account that pays those officers out of
that surcharge from drunk driving arrests and the intent is to
continue to enforce drunk driving laws," Dial said.

Naperville is especially diligent about enforcement during holidays
when offenses are their most frequent, he said.

City Finance Director Doug Krieger said the money from DUI
convictions is accounted as fines and forfeitures and deposited into
the city's general fund. It remains a significant source of
revenue for the city, he said.

Cutting back

Overtime can also be issued for officers who make an arrest at the
end of a shift, or for those who are on call over the weekend for
investigations and special training programs for which the department
receives reimbursement by the state.

To abide by the council's reduction of the overtime budget,
Dial said the department will not perform special presentations that
do not impact public safety. This can be K-9 presentations at schools
or cyber crime presentations for other departments.

"But in the long run, I don't think it's a good
idea because I think those presentations are a good thing for the
public," Dial said.

Employees from other city departments also earn overtime. For this
fiscal year, nearly $1.5 million is budgeted in overtime pay for the
Fire Department and about $1.1 million for the Public Works
Department. Since the city operates its own electrical utility, costs
are typically higher than for most other municipalities. Overtime pay
makes up nearly 20 percent of a typical public works
employee's overall salary. About 76 percent of the
city's total $385 million budget is spent on employees'
salaries and benefits.

Dial noted that officers are paid time and a half for working
holidays, and that city policy prohibits officers from working second
jobs as security officers when they are not on duty.

More hires?

Would it be cheaper for the Police Department to hire more officers
than distributing $3 million annually on overtime if staffing remains
an issue?

"Some of the overtime would be diminished, no doubt, if I had
a larger staff," Dial said. "However, the new officers
would generate overtime because they would have to go to court, they
would have to make arrests. So they're going to generate a
certain amount (of revenue). But I don't believe it would pay
for their entire salaries, benefits and everything else."

Matchett agreed.

"It might by a little bit, but I don't think it would
be anything that would reduce overtime by a lot," he said.
"We do need more police officers but I don't think that
in and of itself would reduce the overtime budget by a lot due to the
amount of time we have to spend in court both on criminal and traffic
matters."

Downtown presence

Some Naperville residents who comment on The Sun's online
community forum, napersun.com/potluck, believe police could better
serve the public by being less concentrated in the downtown area
during the summer and on weekends when the bars and restaurants are
packed.

"I hadn't heard that," Dial said. "All I
had heard was positive things about the police and the downtown area
and how fascinated (they are) with our ability to keep things at a
minimum. We have a densely populated area with lots of drinking
- could I take police out of that area? Sure. Now I
don't think it's in the best interest of public safety.
I think the visibility of police in that area keeps things like drunk
driving and fights to a minimum.

"We are already there responding to a lot of calls, we know
that we have an inordinate amount of calls for service in that area.
But if I took the police out of that area and reduced visibility,
we're going to have a lot more calls," Dial said.

Matchett said the city might be better served with another police
station on the south end of the city but reducing downtown patrols
would not decrease the department's overtime costs.

Dial said the department focuses on high-traffic areas in order to
quickly respond to any offenses, adding that many arrests can occur
near the end of officers' shifts.

"As I said, it's not an 8 to 5 job," he said.


Host Ted,

Can the Sun have their court reporter interview the judges and court clerk on this one?

Any chance Chief Dial will comment as part of the interview?

Are officers really spending a lot of their time sitting in courtrooms unnecessarily? If so what can be changed?

Would it be more effective to hold traffic court in Naperville a few days a week, if this is where the officers are spending their time? Council chambers are empty most of the time.

What do they do in Aurora, Rockford and Joilet?

Critically Thinking Professor,

Here is what the web site of the city of Naperville states. Critical thinking needs to be based on correct and accurate data.
As a professor you need to be more careful and use recent data instead of old data to have any credibility on this site with bloggers or in your class with your students.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Police Officer position is non-exempt, paid by an hourly wage negotiated between the City of Naperville and the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 42. The hourly wage rate for the fiscal year '08-'09 is $27.114/hr. Expressed on an annualized basis, this equates to $56,397.12. Also, of the 11 paid holidays each year, six are calculated into the position's pensionable earnings, holiday pay and experience bonus for a total annual earnings of $59,216.98.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Bottom line is the city considers the offical annual earnings of a police officer $59,216.98. Thus you and John Q. Public are both wrong. This number is critical because it is also the number used to factor in their pensionable earnings when they retire at age 51 which are estimated to be nearly 2 billion dollars over a 40 year period by Blogger Maryann. I concur with her calculations.

This is what the Napergatians are saying is unaffordable and will destroy the future of our town and our kids if they choose to continue living in Naperville.

All those critical thinkers who are defending these outrageous wages and unafffordable pensions for 21 year old degreed college graduates are the ones who are leading us to bankruptcy!

Just watch and see! The Napergatians are simply being attacked for presenting the true facts that hurt!

Let us not forget that Barack Obama was also attacked by national establishment forces. Even accused of being affiliated with terrorists. It did not work. He is President-Elect this morning.

Hopefully this will be a lesson to the city bashers that attacking Napergatians and their leader does no good. For a change, challenge their message in a civil and diplomatic discourse and you may actually get somewhere.

The establishment needs to watch it. The economy is what is determining elections. It just determined the new President of the USA. The 11 million budget deficit combined with the 53 million pension defict Naperville is experiencing could easily be the catalyst that leads the Napergatians to victory in the next election if they choose to regroup and run for city council seats as they did between 1995 and 2001. They may have been waiting for this opportunity...you never know!


Jay –

You’re right that “One blogger stating that the Chief Judge said the officers must be in court when not needed does not make it so. I don't believe the Chief Judge ever made such a statement.” The statement regarding the Chief Judge was from a long-ago thread. Feel free to disagree, but if you have some inside knowledge, please enlighten us all.

While I agree that a NPD cop could make it to a Wheaton courthouse in an hour or less, this assumes that 1) the judge will wait (and many judges I’ve seen are the impatient type) and 2) that there’s someone to cover the NPD officer’s shift while he’s gone. Who’s going to respond to the calls when the cop is called to court? You have to make sure his shift is sufficiently covered, right?

You may notice, Jay, that I wasn’t defending the “potted plants” being I court on OT but merely stated that a system should be worked out that if they had to be there they should be on regular time. Instead of calling for Ted to be some arbiter to the world on one of the most newsworthy days of the year or decade, maybe just think about practical solutions to the problem.

Next is your statement that “I am sure these potted plant police officers sitting in the jury box is an internal Naperville conspiracy to enrich guys in the ol' boy network.” Please provide your sources for this theory. Though interesting, it is nothing more than an allegation unsupported by facts.

Lastly, I don’t know why you’re spending so much time in courtroom 4002, but if you spend a lot of time there you must know that potential witnesses have to be present in case they are called to testify. This is common in courtrooms with both law enforcement and ordinary citizens who are subpoenaed to testify. They sometimes sit all day and are sent home without the need to put them on the stand. It’s sad, but its how our court system works.

T.B.

Jay, what's preventing you from making at least a fact finding call? Why don't you prove to us that all 12 cops do nothing but sit in this jury box, twittle their thumbs, and collect OT just for doing it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Jan,

I have spent much time in Courtroom 4002. I have witnessed the cops in that room pretty much do nothing. I have never seen one cop ever even approach the bench in my many visits to that room for many different reasons.

In non-Naperville Courtrooms the same stuff goes on with one BIG DIFFERENCE. There are no cops collecting OT in the jury boxes. When and if there is a trial in the afternoon, and if they are needed, the prosecutor calls them and they show up. That is how the system works for all villages and cities in Dupage County except Naperville. Why don't you spend some time in Dupage Building 505 and observe as I have observed? How about doing your own fact finding mission as I have done before you write and show your ignorance?

Let us face it, Jan. A reporter or a newspaper editor has much more clout than a lowly citizen to obtain an interview with a Chief Judge. I would be lucky if a secretary ever even put me through to him. You know that and I know that!

Yes, the Napergate Man was able to get interviews and dig up facts in a very unusual way. But let us not forget that he was running a newspaper within a newspaper. He rode the coat tails of the Sun's 22,000 readership at the time by inserting his Napergate Newsletter in the Sun. His ads were popular and people were lined up to talk to him and feed him whatever he needed. Residents could contact his e-mail or voice mail that he published anonymously if they wanted to tip him off. Many times they did with very valuable information that he was able to corroborate.

He had close ties with the council members that he endorsed and helped get elected. They and others fed him the information for his Napergate ads. That is why they were hot. That is why they were so unusual. That is why they brought change to our government. That is why the stopped campaign contributions flowing from the Brestal Law Firm to those council members who rubber stamped his projects 99.99% of the time.

You and I know an ordinary civilian is not going to have the success of the Napergate Man or an editor like Host Ted when trying to contact high ranking public officials.

Do you think Mayor Daley of Chicago has time or a desire to speak to ordinary citizens on the phone that call him? They will get a a low level secretary or receptionist that will find a way to blow them off. Now, if the Chicago Tribune or Sun-Times wanted to talk to Mayor Daley the low level secretary or receptionist will connect them immediately. In the former case he will be out of the office. In the latter case he will be in the office.

I am a little surprised, Jan, that you could be so naive to how the real world funtions and turns. I hope you were old enough to vote today since you seem to have the maturity of a 17 year older!

And please don't blatantly lie and say, "I threatened further involvement from the Napergate Man himself." I never made such a threat and I do not speak on behalf of the Napergate Man or any other Napergatians. I only speak on my own behalf. Please grow up and stop telling tall tales!

John Q...yes see the contract, perhaps difference after May 1st. Though that is not an unrealistic contract raise of close to 4% that is in line with most raises...faculty get between 3-4 also! So that makes sense with standard of living.

Whoever saw 59K before it may not have been a starting salary of a lowest level officer but some other position.

Norma...please tell me where I SAID I want an officer in a Mansion? 60K is not going to do that either so yes you need some critical thought here. You also believe teachers are overpaid? OMG! You have got to be kidding me! I take it you do not have anyone in the teaching profession? The idea is officers & teachers are overall underpaid & underrespected.

Critical thinking can be done on just the logic of what one is saying. For example, why would you be even living in Naperville making 35K! That is not logical at all. Why would you pay the higher rent, gas prices etc living in Naperville if you can not afford to live there. This does not require someone to read posts & get history of past posts to realize this does not make sense. Actually, it doesn't even require much critical thought it just is not logical...simple logic. If you also do not like your city & the way it does things again doesn't take much logic to figure out you should be living somewhere else where you will be happier.

As I posted before the other positions in surrounding IL areas are very much in line for the starting salary even if at 56K now...and especially for it being Naperville! This is not some small poor town.

Also, you know noone has been discussing what you get for a salary. What quality person, qualifications etc do you get. You bring down your salary those wonderful officers are going to go elsewhere. Same thing with teachers or any job. You get what you pay for!

Jay on November 4, 2008 4:15 PM

Let us make that call, Host Ted.! One call could save the taxpayers at least a million a year just from this waste alone of police officers twirling their thumbs in the jury boxes

____________________________________________________________

Here we go again host Ted! One of the Napergate followers makes an unsupported claim, demands that someone else follow up this claim, threatens further involvement from the Napergate man himself, and then at a future date will tell everyone how they (and the followers) single handedly battled corruption and government waste.

Jay, what's preventing you from making at least a fact finding call? Why don't you prove to us that all 12 cops do nothing but sit in this jury box, twittle their thumbs, and collect OT just for doing it.

By T.B. on November 3, 2008 10:40 PM
Jenny –

One of your complaints was about the 12 “potted plants” at the DuPage courthouse every day.

I would suggest that one of the duties of a police officer is to testify in court. I believe an earlier thread also revealed that the chief judge wants the officers present in court. While the chief judge cannot set the city’s staffing levels, if you want your cases to be prosecuted you’ll follow his/her rules. Courthouses are like little fiefdoms and whatever the chief judge says, goes.

_________________________________________________________________


TB,
One blogger stating that the Chief Judge said the officers must be in court when not needed does not make it so. I don't believe the Chief Judge ever made such a statement. If he did why are not the cops from all the Dupage Cities in court every morning. Only Naperville cops attend to sit like potted plants and collect OT. I assure you the Chief Judge did not order this waste of taxpayer money. This is Naperville enriching its own at taxpayer expense.

Every Tuesday Morning in Rm 4002 is nothing but status hearings, pleas of guilty, or stipulated trials. No cop has ever been called. No cop is needed.

If a trial is to take place, a very rare thing, the cop is summoned to appear in the afternoon. Only the cop related to the trial is needed. Not all 12 or 15 cops who attended in the morning needlessly.

I wish Host Ted would call the Chief Judge and ask him why he demands 12-15 Naperville police officers to be sitting in the jury box on Tuesday Mornings when there is no chance of being called in the morning. I suspect the Chief Judge will tell Host Ted that he only requires cops to be there when they are needed to testify....not during status hearing or pleas of guilty that are worked out between the defense attorney and prosecutor in advance of the court session.

Judges give continuances, reschedule, and adjust schedules all day long. If a cop needs to appear at a trial suddenly and unexpectedly any judge would give him an hour to show up. Other witnesses can be called out of order if a Judge does not want to waste time. Usually the one and a half hour lunch break is enough time to summon a Naperville Cop from Naperville to Wheaton. And again, trials in Dupage County are very rare. The Judge usually has 100 cases in the morning that are disposed very easily. Maybe one case needs a hearing or trial in the afternoon out of those 100. Most times none go to trial as they are plead for the benefit of both party. The state saves time and costs by accepting a plea of guilty which in return results in reduced and/or eliminated charges for the defendent. Both sides benefit!

I am sure these potted plant police officers sitting in the jury box is an internal Naperville conspiracy to enrich guys in the ol' boy network. I do wish the Naperville Sun would do an investigation. This is what made the Napergate Man so popular. He would investigate a story, rip it apart till he got to the bottom of the truth. and finally publish his findings in his Napergate Ads. I think we deserve no less from the Naperville Sun and Daily Herald. It is time they did their share of investigative reporting instead of playing to the tune of the establishment fabrications.

In summary, a blogger saying the Chief Judge said it is so, does not mean the Chief Judge said it is so! It has to be corroborated to have any credence. Let us make that call, Host Ted.!
One call could save the taxpayers at least a million a year just from this waste alone of police officers twirling their thumbs in the jury boxes. Chief Judges love to be interviewed by the media. They like name recognition. They have to run for their elected office. I know! I voted for 6 of them today!

State Rule?,

Yes, we definitely have a clear and compelling idea of what it means to reject and revoke home rule.

Home Rule is a mixed bag. Some good, some bad. Right now there are a lot of voters who feel strongly that the bad outweighs the good. With an unresponsive city council and an out of control city government some view it as one way to real in the accountability and fiscal conservativeness that currently is lacking.

Others may disagree and if it come to a question on a referendum the majority who vote will decide the fate for the next chapter of Naperville's history.

Opinion does not equal fact. Please read her comments with a grain of salt and do your own research.

You people that want to revoke Home Rule have NO IDEA what that means.

Amerish,
I have not heard of any serious budget problems with the villages and cities that surround Naperville. Mostly only Chicago which is a basket case.

Chicago has a million poor people. It has many projects like Cabrini Green. The individual household does not pay the kind of tax that the household in Naperville pays.

Naperville is the wealthiest town in America. They are taxing McMansions big bucks for services. Not apartments in Cabrini Green for chump change. Big difference!

With the kind of money Naperville generates from its wealthy population it should never have a budget deficit.

Show me one article indicating Wheaton, Bolingbrook, Warrenville, Lisle, Downers Grove, Aurora, etc. that shows those towns are having serious budget deficit problems like Naperville topped with huge pension fund deficts in excess of 50 million dollars.

Naperville is really in a class by itself. The wealthiest yet having the most trouble outside of Chicago. When Naperville brags about the number of DUIs confiscated the comparison with Chicago is excluded. It is considered an exception due to size and other factors. The same should be done here!

Anonymous, your figure of $50,137 is from 2006. As of May 1, 2008, the hourly wage for a rookie officer in NPD is $27.114, which figures out to $56,397 annually (2080 hours per year).

The current employment contract of the NPD is available for download at NPD Contract.

Rita on November 3, 2008 8:55 PM
May God wake them up before it is too late. Amen!!! The Napergate Man could not wake them up. The Napergatians could not wake them up. Let us hope someone can!

_____________________________________________________________

Hey Rita, be careful. Are you really saying that the Napergate Man and the Napergatians were not successful in getting the city of Naperville to wake up? Every other Napergatian on this blog is patting themselves on the back and taking credit for something many other municipality and city governments are currently doing - i.e. cutting back. How can it be that the others in your group claim Naperville city cutbacks were based on Napergate pressure, while you indicate that no one was able to wake them (City of Naperville) up.? Come on Rita, get with the program.

If the starting salary of a Naperville Police Officer has in fact been reduced to 50,137.57 as the Professor is saying and I emphasize IF, that means the Napergatians have had half way success.

The posted number a few months ago was over 59,000 right on the Naperville Web Site. I sure hope the Professor googled it right.

IF true, that means city officials are finally succumbing to the pressure of Napergatians and others and making an attemp at being reasonable.

As far as the Professor he is a whacko. He does not understand paying 60k in salary with a pension to boot to starting NPD officers means higher unbearable taxation to others including new graduates in the private sector....translation less disposable income for us to even rent and I assure you we would be happy to rent. Thus he wants police officers to live in McMansions while we live with our parents struggling on 35k.

The school comparison is a terrible comparison because we are again dealing with overpaid public employees subsidized by the taxpayer receiving unaffordable pensions that are obsolete.

Think critically of another example, Professr. If you are a newcomer you ought to spend some time reading for a while before writing. I believe Another Anonymous did that and was well respected on this blog site when he finally started writing.

My advice to you Professor is you need to read and learn before lecturing others on CRITICAL THINKING that now has the Napergate Man selling booze to minors for bribes. LOL!!! You seem a little off Professor. Sorry! It may be time for you to finally retire rather than make a fool of yourself on your tenured salary.

T.B.

Your excuse that "courthouses are like little fiefdoms" doesn't hold water. This is the USA and we don't have "fiefdoms" in a democracy. Little tin gods for judges more likely.

This is blatant and unexcused waste. Why hasn't the local media reported on this and its waste and cost and blown the lid off of this? Certainly the media can put enough pressure to bear on the this little tin god to change his ways or else get thrown out of office.

If this little tin god of a judge needs to invest in a courtroom management system or a scheduling system, or even a communication system then I'm all for it. Paying police officers overtime rates to sit around and do nothing productive and only for the personal convenience of a little tin god of a judge is a total abuse and waste of taxpayer money and no city, no village, no municipality, and certainly no taxpayer should put up with this kind of abuse.

And if this little tin god of a judge doesn't get the message then we need to hit him and others like him where it hurts... in the pocketbook. No more pay raises for these lazy little tin gods until they clean up their act... sorry we blew all of the money we had for judicial pay raises on police overtime... you can bet this problem will get fixed in less than a week.

Don't forget to vote, everyone!

here are your polling places:
http://napervillian.com/articles/2008/11/04/naperville-polling-locations

By T.B. on November 3, 2008 3:54 PM


Also, I'm insulted to be categorized as an Establishment Person. I would like nothing better than to see the "big names" of this city out of power (both in the city council and in outside influence); And since I don't agree with the Napergatians, they just lump me in with The Establishment. They have a “you’re for us or against us” mentality.

===================================================================
T.B.

The Napergatians may have in your mind lumped you with the Establishment not because you disagree with them, but because you support corrupt and bankrupt Establishment policies.

Do I need to remind you that you stated you felt any kind of cuts to public safety employees whether they be Naperville Police, Park District Police, Community Officers or Fire Fighters is not acceptable to YOU! Selfish YOU! These employees more than any employees are the reason behind our 11 million dollar budget deficit. Did you forget about the 53 million deficit in the police and fire pension fund that is much higher now due to the stock market collapse? You want to solve the fiscal budget crisis yet you put a great part of the city, its departments and its employees off limit.

I am not surprised the Napergatians may have dumped you with the Establishment. You are even worse than the Establishment as at least they are considering cuts in the areas of public safety. You have not! You are lucky if they dumped you with the Establishment Party as you assume. I would have dumped you in the dog house with your radical and ridiculous views that not even the conservative and reactionary Establishment Party finds palatable or acceptable.

You asked the Senior Citizen if he maybe had a senior moment and was forgetful. How rude of you, TB? You seem to be the forgetful man or woman on this blog site who forgot that he/she called for absolutely no pay cuts for public safety employees of all stripes in the City of Naperville.

With your agenda of no cuts, how do you expect to solve our financial crisis caused mostly by these public safety employees who you want exempted. I guess your plan is to tax the residents for this $53 million deficit shortfall in the police and fire pension fund. As if they were responsible......!!!!!!

As Maryann stated, the pension disbursements of our public safety employees if continued on this path will cost our children $1,400,400,000 if we continue on this path with no increases. With increases in salaries and pension cost of living benefits, she estimates close to 2 billion bucks. Do you think this is chump change, TB? I think you have no sense of reality?

I don't think the Napergatians lumped you with the Establishment. That would have been an honor for you. You lumped yourself with the Establishment to get yourself out of the dog house of ignorance and deceit.

Honestly, I have not ever met anyone as arrogant as you in my life. You write wrecklessly, make a fool of yourself and then apologize. You continue repeating the cycle. The Napergatians don't make fools of themselves when they write and post. They think before they write. They don't need to constantly apologize for putting their feet in their mouths like you and your die hard supporter Ken!

The Napergatians have many plans of actions. They have many ideas. They try to combine their ideas to come up with an agenda to fix the broken City of Naperville.

They respect the Main Anonymous and Another Anonymous who come from different political walks of life and have their own ideas and agenda. We adopt some of their ideas and they adopt some of our ideas. We give and take. You are the stubborn one who thinks it is your way or the highway.

If you had the least bit of ethics or morals, you would recuse yourself from this thread since your brother is a public safety employee who will one day enjoy these unaffordable 75% pension benefits at the expense of taxpayers. You can neither be objective or subjective since your brother creates a serious conflict of interest for your perspective.

Your agenda is not one that protects or helps the taxpayer. Your agenda is one that simply helps your brother maintain his salary and high pension directly or indirectly. No need to tell me your brother does not work for the City of Naperville but a nearby town. I already know that. Nevertheless, you should recuse yourself!

Since the Napergatians don't want you and you don't want the Establishment there is no where else to go in a 2 party system but to the doghouse...unless you want to start your own INDEPENDENT PARTY with Ken! You never know you guys may get 2 votes in the next election. It is a little better than zero and right now you are both nothing but zeros. BIG ZEROS may I add!

Why do the weirdo napercomplaitions still live in naperville. They dont give any reasons. Why would you live someplace that you hate?

The Napergate man was a crook and everybody knows it. Jokes on the napergations. The truth is now out. Lets face the facts-he sold booze to me and my friends and on regular basis and we never got caught.

By the way...statue of limitations. HAHAHHAHHA

Elizabeth, where did I call Kimberly a liar? I merely noted that contrary to claims being made, Kimberly did not post facts. As usual, and also like when I post facts, I documented my claim.

By the way, you may note that Kimberly, like Maryann, attacked me. The return of the napergate cult members has brought back the usual tactics of name calling and personal attacks, along with calling on Ted to banish any posts or posters they don't like. Maryann even uses the keyboard rambo tactic of calling me a dirtbag, something she would not dare do in person. It is funny in a rather sad way that the napergatians are the trouble makers while trying to claim otherwise. Of course, why would I or anyone else expect them to change their tactics? Why is it that when the napergatians return, the name calling and personal attacks return?

Like TB, I find the fact that the napergatians have a us against them mentality lacking in reality. I am as anti-tax, anti-cop, and anti-establishment as most of them. I just realize there is a correct way to go about changing things, and many of the napergatian's ideas don't fall into that category.

Well, it is hard to argue that the police shouldn't retire at age 50 after reading what the Police Chief had to write in this weeks column. From all appearances police officers minds must really turn to mush at age 50 and there isn't much more we can do with them at that point except turn them out to pasture.

While the 75% pensions suck, but if this is any indication of mental capacity of police officers at age 50, well there isn't much of market for people who think or write like this in the corporate world

Despite all this, can anyone explain why Dial is still here? Is he now so feeble minded he forgot to file for his own retirement?


Jenny –

One of your complaints was about the 12 “potted plants” at the DuPage courthouse every day.

I would suggest that one of the duties of a police officer is to testify in court. I believe an earlier thread also revealed that the chief judge wants the officers present in court. While the chief judge cannot set the city’s staffing levels, if you want your cases to be prosecuted you’ll follow his/her rules. Courthouses are like little fiefdoms and whatever the chief judge says, goes.

The problem is how to make this less costly to the city. The obvious answer is to have the officers attend court on days which do not cost the city OT. The problem is you then have to figure out who will cover their beats when they’re gone.

Unfortunately, instituting a hiring freeze puts more pressure on the OT levels. It may be more cost effective to actually hire a few more cops and stop the courtroom OT, than to freeze hiring at the current level.

T.B.

First of all Liebert...I did not say he did take bribes! I said you need to not make a statement that people who are not hurting for money do not take bribes. As for info being public say a year ago, do you think all posters to this blog have posted that long or have seen/heard all this info. Again Critically Think that you may have someone very new to this blog & just making a comment on what someone states. Arguing one's logic is perfectly fine.

To the person who thinks it is fine to live with your parents for a bit, first I think you will get a ton of parents who will love to have a conversation with you on that. From a psychological perspective this is not something that is suggested in the health of the individual nor the parents. My point was not to suggest what an officer should do to SURVIVE but that they should not have to just SURVIVE. And in today's economy it is taking even more to Survive. And again why are you thinking a 21 yr old is right out of college & single. Critically think, they may be married & have a wife that is making soooo much less. They may not be married & have a child or two already. They may have their aging or ill parent actually living with them. You make it appear so rosey that they should be able to survive. Not to mention they may be paying off student loans so then how much is money they get to use for daily7 experiences & forget even saving so they could eventually get their own home. None of that is thought of.

My point was many others are making more than 40K for a first job out. That was my point with teachers in Chicago. Just a bachelors fresh out of school is making on the first step approximately 53K & with pension pick up over 56K! Just google CPS teacher salaries. So they can make more than police officers...and police officers from Naperville no less. Well that would be something to be so proud of wouldn't it. Naperville officers should be making less than all those other IL cities I mentioned current posted salaries. Ya, that make a lot of sense.

I thought someone has previously mentioned that the salaries in Naperville also based upon experience. Where did someone get 60K as a starting salary? I just googled & they are advertising $50,137.57 for starting salary? Talk about getting the fact straight. Geez!

Tawfig...apparently you do not get the idea either. It is not about really fixing all cities...geez. Ha...I laughed at the focus idea you had. It is about if you have all the answers or think that the rest of the country is not having the same issues as Naperville. You did not understand that? The idea they Napergatians state they have all the answers without knowing all the information. Again, what if someone who does not even work for your company just flatly said all of you make too much money. They say you should SURVIVE on say 10-20K less. Give me a break you would be the first to complain & say you do not know my life & what I need to SURVIVE & why do I get to just survive! Living paycheck to paycheck is no way to live. Why would anyone wish that on someone?

"I would like to see the Naperville Homeowners Association get on board here and put a referendum on the ballot stripping away HOME RULE. Their vice president is a Napergatian and lawyer named Richard Strawbridge. He has the ability to get this referendum rolling. He is very talented. If we can abolish home rule we can all relax a bit since the most damage the city council members can do to our personal budgets would be limited to 5%. While most of us are lucky to get 3% raises that is even more than we can afford. But to smack us with 20% tax increases year after year is ridiculous."

Host Ted,
I agree with the above statement by Maryann. Is there anything your newspaper can do to help get a ballot that would abolish Home Rule? Home Rule has been abused by our council members, city manager and city officials it appears for personal enrichment and benefits.

It must be put on the agenda and ended as soon as possible through a majority vote. I hope your newspaper can tell us how to abolish it. Is it still possible to get it on the referendum for the next local election coming in April of 2009? We would forever be so grateful to you and the staff of the Naperville Sun for some guidance.

Thank you, Host Ted, for allowing us to air our grievances against City Hall on your threads free of charge. I for one appreciate that since I know our City Officials read this blog site!

Paying a 21 or 22 year old new college graduate 60k to be a police officer, full health benefits, a 75% pension upon retirement at the very young age 51 or 52 is the most important factor contributing to our budget deficit. The same applies to the fire fighters who are paid very similarly and handsomely.

We only have about 30 retired police officers and our pension deficit was $53 million last year before the stock market collapsed. We are lucky our town was small a few decades ago and we have so few retired police officers. Soon, we will have 189 retired police officers and another 200 retired fire fighters. How are we going to be able to give 389 of them 90k a year each for 40 years? Have you thought of what that would cost us and you, Mr. Pyschiatrist?

How about $1,400,400,000 assuming we give no cost of living increases and the salary structure remains as is. With salary increases during employment and cost of living increases to pension payments during retirement, TWO BILLION is not far fetched.

*****************************************************************

Maryann,

The point you make is frightening but seems to be truthful. The numbers bear out what you are saying.

I just think our current generation of public officials do not care about our kids and the future of our beautiful Naperville. They are living for today at the expense of the future. It just happens that the future arrived a little too fast and red ink is everywhere....pretty soon we will not even have enough money to pave our streets.

Like many others, I certainly hope the Napergate Man comes out of retirement and leads a second campaign to get some new council members elected who may be able to rescue our town before it is too late!

TB,

You say you are not an Establishment Guy but yet you say Police and Fire Fighters are off limits to pay cuts.

Most of the budget crisis is caused by overpaying police and fire fighters and than topping that with overpensionalizing them.

If you are not an Establishment Guy, then you need to call for cuts across the board. Fair is fair! No exceptions!

Oh, I forgot your brother is a Fireman so he has to be off limits.

No wonder you have no credibility on this blogs site with no one...not only the Napergatians!!!

Host Ted,

What surprises me about our public officials is they still want to build a library parking deck? I recall the opposition to it was about 100-1 on one of your earlier threads.

Now we are told retail sales are down drastically in downtown Naperville. The other day I saw 5 stores on Jefferson between Washington and Main out of business, including a bank, a restaurant, an antique shop, a boutique and I can not remember the fifth. Just on one block. Why do we need more parking decks with all these stores out of business and no customers? The successful restaurants are stating business is down 25-50% in the last few months. The recession just became a depression and it is in its infancy.

If anything we need less parking as the Napergatians have stated and not more parking as our city officials are pushing for. Yes, right now they are pushing for 2 new parking decks at a cost of 40 million not including land to the taxpayers. Who has got that kind of money right now?

Everyone is putting their projects on hold right now except the City of Naperville who is proceeding full force as if we are not in a depression. They are clueless as to what hit this country and city. May God wake them up before it is too late. Amen!!! The Napergate Man could not wake them up. The Napergatians could not wake them up. Let us hope someone can!

By One Who Values YOu on November 2, 2008 9:50 PM
I suppose then the Napergatians should have forewarned the whole country then on how every city was doing it wrong & we would not be in the economic mess we are in?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Napergatians are strictly focused on Naperville. They are successful because they know how to focus on the issue at hand. They are successful because they think of solutions of the issues at hand.

They forewarned City Officials right here on Ted's Threads in black and white nearly 2 years ago that we were spending more than we can afford to spend. It is all documneted on many threads including 14 Napergate Threads stored in the Naperville Sun archives.

No one listened! No one believed the Napergatians. Now we have a serious budget crises larger than anyone imagined.

Don't be surprised if the police and fire pension is now 75 million in the dumps. The city is hiding the true deficit at this time and hoping Councilman Bob will not provide it this time. I am sure they have muzzled him or at least attempted. Only time will tell!

Outside of this pension mess, we are being told we have another 11 million operating budget deficit looming in the horizon. Who the hell is the captain of the ship driving it right into the Rock of Gibralter?

The bottom line is we have a serious problem in this town and City Officials are proposing band-aid solutions that will not last.

The Napergatians are suggesting long lasting solutions that will solve the budget crises and will work.

The problem of 12 potted plants in the DuPage Courthouse every morning and 6 more additional potted plants on bikes downtown needs to be addressed. Both are a waste of time and OT funds!

As one blogger said why can't we get a Field Courthouse to avoid all this OT in the Courthouse. As another blogger said why do we need these 6 bike cops only when the high schools are closed as opposed to needing them based on the number of party goers downtown.

I think our Police Chief is stuck in a box and can't think out of the box. He wants to be the Defense Minister against terrorism instead of the Chief of Police of Naperville. Just read his bi-weekly columns. He is simply bored of his job and Naperville. It is high time we sent him to Washington to fullfil his dream so we can hire a Chief that will help us live within our means.

What is going on here on this thread?

I see the Napergatians offering serious solutions and bunch of insane people led by a mad psychiatrist attacking them and their former or current leader.

All they suggested is the pay of new starting police officers and fire fighters should be about 40k in order to have a chance to balance the budget and the response is your leader took bribes from minors to sell them booze 2 decades ago. What kind of response is this to a very good and practical recommendation?

A decent response would have been how about 45k or 50k for a starting salary and leaving the Napergate Man out of it.

I see something is really amiss when you have to attack the messengers in this way. Apparently and unfortunately the Napergate Man has to take all the heat here as only his identity is known. If only the heat had any truth to it, one could tolerate this craziness.

Everyone else is anonymous here. How unfair!!!

Host Ted,

What I see here is a fear by the Establishment Folks that the Napergate Man may decide to return to politics and restablish the Napergate Party.

Fearing his return, they have decided to tarnish his reputation and credibility by accusing him of selling liquor to minors. Since that was not holding any water in the past they decided that maybe he takes bribes.

I have never seen such a large group of idiots in one town fabricate so much. Why don't you urge these idiots on your threads, Host Ted, to stick to the facts instead of their hallucinations?

While the Napergatians offer serious solutions, these City Supporters offer NOTHING but NONSENSE. NONSENSE to the nth degree may I add!!!

And they wonder why they are accused of psychobable!

By One Who Values YOu on November 3, 2008 9:36 AM

Oh & who is the one that said 40K would get you a place to rent. First...rent! Lovely, second someone do a little calculating & take 1/4 of your take home on that & see what you have for rent. What is rent in the surrounding area there? Right! Maybe with two salaries but if you are single & only have one salary...you got to be kidding me!

____________________________________________________________________

Hey Pyschiatrist Professor,

You seem to be the resident pyschiatrist for the NPD to be so biased. Most college graduates are lucky to get a 40k job without a pension. They survive and do well. They have to live in apartments initially until they make it in this world and earn their wings.

Are you saying a Naperville Police Officer is above living in an apartment at age 21 when first starting his career? Is he above having a roommate like most recent graduates? Is he above sharing an apartment with his girl friend who also may be making 40k? Is he above living with his parents for a while until he saves for a down payment and gets a few raises or promotions? You sound like a Professor who lost all his bearings somewhere duing your career!

Paying a 21 or 22 year old new college graduate 60k to be a police officer, full health benefits, a 75% pension upon retirement at the very young age 51 or 52 is the most important factor contributing to our budget deficit. The same applies to the fire fighters who are paid very similarly and handsomely.

We only have about 30 retired police officers and our pension deficit was $53 million last year before the stock market collapsed. We are lucky our town was small a few decades ago and we have so few retired police officers. Soon, we will have 189 retired police officers and another 200 retired fire fighters. How are we going to be able to give 389 of them 90k a year each for 40 years? Have you thought of what that would cost us and you, Mr. Pyschiatrist?

How about $1,400,400,000 assuming we give no cost of living increases and the salary structure remains as is. With salary increases during employment and cost of living increases to pension payments during retirement, TWO BILLION is not far fetched.

This is what our city council has given the unions. Every city council member who voted to approve the latest union contract for police and firefighters should be voted out of office. Does anyone on this blog site know which city council members voted for the latest union contracts? I would appreciate this information so we can publicise it before the next election.

I would like to assure all bloggers that it is the city council that determines starting salary for a Naperville Cop and not the State Legislature. This starting salary evenutally more than any other factor dictates the huge pension payouts that we are currently unable to afford and will one day certainly bankrupt the City of Naperville! The irony will not be lost on me when the wealthiest large city in America with over 100k in populance will have to file bankruptcy? And the pundits and whiners will find a way to blame the Napergatians. Yeah, sure! Who else can they blame for their incompetence since they never look in the mirror!

How can our kids afford to come up with 2 billion dollars to pay for these police and fire pension funds? Does our City Manager care? Of course not! He is collecting almost 90k each year at this moment while he collects a salary nearly twice as much from the same taxpayers? Does our Mayor care? He is also collecting a healthy police pension while collecting a salary albeit much less than the Manager and palatable to the taxpayer? Does the City Finance Director care? It seems like he is hoping for a parachute package when the sh*t hits the ceiling fan and he will follow his former boss, Burchard, to Florida where there is no income tax and homes are off limits to bankruptcy.

As far as our new resident psychiatrist, if I ever seen a psychiatrist who needs a thorough mental and psychological examination, this is undoubtedly the ONE. Critical thinking indicates the man is sick....very sick!

By Fred on November 2, 2008 4:45 PM
As usual, the Napergatians main focus is on the police department

__________________________________________________________________

Hey Fred,

Did it ever occur to you that the title of this thread is Reductions in (POLICE) Force?

It seems like you city guys are attacking the Napergatians whether they stay focused on topic or not! Seems to me like a vendetta of sorts! Get over it and over yourselves!

As posted 11/03 at 10:41am by one of the variety of Anonymous posters...

"Seems our Chief of Police is an Obama supporter which must mean he subscribes to the new breed of Democrats who are nothing more than a bunch of socialists who want to spread American wealth around."

***************************************
I found it hard to believe that the Chief of Police publicly endorsed a candidate for President, so I went to the editorial and no where in that piece did he EVER say he was a supporter of either candidate.

This is just another classic example of how too many of the bloggers on this site read meaning in to statements to the point of idiocy! Anonymous, just keep typing for the sake of it, because with your lack of deductive reasoning, you will never be credible and my guess is the City Council and all the rest of the "Naperville Elitists" laugh and shake their heads when they read your drivel. And yes, I guess this can be considered name calling, however, I certainly stopped short of calling you a moron.

I for one, have had enough of these ridiculous suppositions. If half the bologna in this blog wasn't so laughable, it would be slanderous.

To the Napergate Haters and Bashers,

The Napergatians for the most part made their points a year ago and let a bunch of woowoos and coocoos take over this blog site. Only a handful of Napergatians blogged the last few months. And I can not be sure if Anonymous and Another Anonymous are Napergatians or bloggers who feel like the Napergatians about the city's current state of disarray.

I think what brings Napergatians back in large numbers in recent days are the falsehoods being told on this thread. Such as the Napergate Man was selling liquor to minors and now new accusations of taking bribes. All in an attempt to discredit the Napergate Movement he started. Not one person has ever presented a shred of evidence to that effect and yet it is published like it is fact. Maybe these anti-Napergatian bashers feel if they repeat themselves, their hogwash will be believed. Not a chance in a million!

I am a little disappointed that Host Ted would allow so much hogwash to be posted on his threads. I am not sure why! Maybe hogwash generates a lot more response than honesty and truth. Only Host Ted has the answers. Maybe Host Ted wants to return his blog site to the glory days when it was receiving 100,000 views per week. I guess he figured out if he allows dirt bags like Ken to continually attack the Napergatians, the Napergatians will finally come out in defense. Maybe he is right as there is only so much attacking that can go unchallenged by anyone.

What I see here is the Establishment Folks in town want ONE PARTY RULE. They want an Establishment Party but do not want a Napergate Party. For the newcomers in town, our city council is not divided into Republican and Democratic candidates. It was simply Establishment Candidates until the Napergate Man dared to challenge their One Party Rule in 1995 by pushing a slate of Napergate Candidates for 4 consecutive elections ending in 2001. Surprisingly, many of his candidates he endorsed got elected and the Establishment Party has been bitter since. He took away one party rule. He took away monopolistic rule! He pissed them off in laymans terms!

When he was playing his WATCHDOG ROLE, the city of Naperville bragged about tax rate decreases year after year. They knew he was watching and broadcasting. After he retired we gradually saw not only our taxes increase but also our tax RATES increase. We started seeing 20% tax increases annually until not only Napergatians but all residents said Enough IS Enough.

Now we have a compromise. A 10% increase for next year combined with some token layoffs. A 10% increase is twice what is allowed for towns thoughout Illinois who follow state rule instead of home rule. Like many others on this blog site, I think the root of this problem was giving our council members home rule. They simply stopped watching the budget and awarding city employees whatever they wanted. I wonder how many city council members have relatives or friends who work for the City of Naperville to have become so loose with the taxpayer's hard earned dollar.

I would like to see the Naperville Homeowners Association get on board here and put a referendum on the ballot stripping away HOME RULE. Their vice president is a Napergatian and laywer named Richard Strawbridge. He has the ability to get this referendum rolling. He is very talented. If we can abolish home rule we can all relax a bit since the most damage the city council members can do to our personal budgets would be limited to 5%. While most of us are lucky to get 3% raises that is even more than we can afford. But to smack us with 20% tax increases year after year is ridiculous.

When I look at my real estate tax bill, I see the school district is honoring the 5% cap year after year. It is the City of Naperville that is not honoring this 5% cap and does not have to because of the exemption taxpayers mistakenly gave them years ago. I am sure at the time the taxpayers thought they could trust their city council members. We found out that the majority simply can not be trusted when controls are lifted to have a conscience and watch out for the taxpayer.

The issue on this thread is police waste of our resources resulting in unbearable taxes. It is not about the Napergate Man and the Napergatians. The subject is being switched by the Establishment Folks who define anyone who is against government waste and lower taxes as a hostile Napergatian.....and they want you to believe being a Napergatian is un-noble instead of noble.

All my neighbors are against government waste and higher taxes. By the definition of the Establishment Folks, they are all Napergatians. Well, I hope they are right and all these new Napergatains go out and vote in the next local election. And if they do, I suspect it will be an end to Establishment Rule once and for all.!


By Anonymous on November 3, 2008 10:41 AM

"A true and permanent reduction in crime will only come about when the values, ethics, and morals of the citizens who make up our society voluntarily chose to live by all of the rules of society."

Response:
I don't know if this is what Chief Dial is referring to, but from this clip it sounds like Obama is proposing a paramilitary organization for "domestic security" numbering more than one million.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=211203

It sounds like Obama is suggesting we create the Brown Shirts, SA, SS, NKVD, KGB or Revolutionary Guards, whatever name you like best. With one million Brown Shirts, I have no doubt that Obama could make crime supression a national priority.

The question is what will be defined as a "criminal act or behavior"?

Watch the clip and post your thoughts.

Senior Citizen -

"Let us not forget TB called AA a criminal on another thread." While your statement is not entirely correct, in all fairness you should've also disclosed that I apologized to AA. Maybe you had a senior moment and forgot that part?

By the way, you'll never see a Napergatian apologize on these threads. That would mean they’d have to admit they were wrong about something.

Also, I'm insulted to be categorized as an Establishment Person. I would like nothing better than to see the "big names" of this city out of power (both in the city council and in outside influence); however, I think we need the Napergatians in power like I need a hole in my head. And since I don't agree with the Napergatians, they just lump me in with The Establishment. They have a “you’re for us or against us” mentality.

T.B.

By Ken on November 2, 2008 11:43 PM
That's right, the napergatians always post facts. Here is a factual statement made early on in this post by Kimberly:

"The only Chicagoland city that is looking at an 11 million deficit shortfall next year is Naperville. Not even Chicago with its many poor citizens is experiencing this kind of shortfall. They managed their budget without any tax increase...0 TAX INCREASE."

____________________________________________________________________

Ken,

According to the Chicago Tribune article I read Kimberly is right.
Chicago chose to lay off 1000 employees in lieu of raising taxes.

Now if at some point in the future, Chicago decided to do both, maybe Kimberly missed the latest development. Does that make her a liar?

What does Kimberly's mention of a story published in the Chicago Tribune have to with the Napergate Cult? Please enlighten us, Ken!

It does seem like you do like to instigate trouble on Ted's Threads, Ken!

By One Who Values YOu on November 2, 2008 9:31 PM

Someone mentioned about turning in some IDs & taking bribes. Actually, if you think about it, what a great way to take the heat off you & make people think you are wonderful when in fact you may not be. Am I saying that is the case? No, but noone was actually thinking of that possibility...very interesting.

_________________________________________________________________

Hey Critical Thinking Professor,

Your critical thinking is usless when all the facts have been made public after many years of lengthy trials.

If you use critical thinking there is not a chance in a million the Napergate Man was taking bribes. I was a frequent visitor to Extra Value Liquors when I was a Naperville Builder in the 80s and early 90s before I moved to Chicago. I was there to mostly use the pay phone before cell phones were common. I got to know the Napergate Man and his employees very very well including Commander Dan Shanower who ran his store for a few years before he was killed on 911 in the most unfortunate of circumstances.

I don't think a manager of the caliber of Mr. Shanower would take bribes or allow his employees to take bribes. The FBI and CIA were visiting the store to vet him out every which way possible before they recruted him to the Pentagon where he ended up in a very high ranking postion.

The Napergate Man gave his manager/employees 10 bucks for confiscating the first fraudulent ID per week. Second ID was a 20 buck bonus. Third ID was a 40 buck bonus. Fourth ID was 80 bucks. Fifth ID was 160 bucks. And if an employee got 6 IDs in one week he got a 320 dollar bonus. He pretty much doubled the amount for each additional ID per week. I went up to the 320 number because I am aware of an employee who received this bonus. I understand later on he increased his bonus for a first ID to 20 bucks and doubled it for each additional ID per week as fraudulent IDs became more scarce due to better technology the State of Illinios made in developing them so they could not be easily duplicated.

Critical thinking needs to be fact based before it has any credibility or relevance. A man who is giving bonuses to his employees to get fake IDs would not be giving them bribes to sell to minors. If you use critcial thinking, why would an employee who can collect 320 dollars for not selling to minors, take a 5 or 10 dollar bribe to sell to a minor. It really makes no sense if you use critical thinking, Professor! Where did you get your PhD degree from? An online service that takes a bribe?

This information is well known to the Naperville Police Dept, the Federal and State courts who handled the case, the residents who lived in Naperville at that time and thru the hundred or so ads the Napergate Man wrote including the 44 in the Napergate Series.

It is nice to take some time off from these blogs. But when low lifes who call themselves critical thinking Professors with students, attempt to make such serious allegations through insinuations, I personally can not stay on the sidelines and read the filth and untruths written on these blog sites.

You are nothing but a wimp, Mr. Professor. If you want to attack an honest and decent man, be brave and attack him with your full name. Don't be a low life and attack him while you hide under the cover of a screen name.

Show some class!The Napergate Man was a very classy man. He did not hide like you. He took on City Hall and beat them whichever way possible. In the election booth, in the media and finally in the court system. He won in all arenas because he was straight as an arrow and strong as a bull.

I admire all his Napergatian followers who are trying to continue his work. From what I am reading they are very credible and tell the truth to the best of their abilities. Since the facts bear what they are saying you have chosen to attack them and especially their leader instead of their message, agenda and ideas. How low can a low life go in this world? Critical thinking may have the answer....


____________________________________________________________________


PS. I would like to add that the Napergate Man went through tons of vetting before he won his title for most responsible liquor retailer in the nation at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas. I am sure the Newspaper Association of America and the National Retail Liquor Association would have stumbled on some bribes if they existed.

What I see here is that the police supporters are in denial that their beloved NPD wrongfully charged an innocent man. The NPD never apologized to the Napergate Man. The City of Naperville never recognized his efforts. The Naperville Sun run by establishment editor Tim West at the time never commended him. It is all about politics. If he held the politcal views of the establishment, they would have erected a statue for him by now on the Riverwalk. That is the full story! Most people in Naperville know the truth through the grapevines and the massive grass roots movement the Napergate Man had in place at the time.

Did anyone else read the lastest diarrhea of the mouth from our incompetent Chief of Police in today's Naperville Sun?

I used to think Chief Dial was a moron. The more articles he writes the more convinced I become. Doesn't anyone in city hall review what a city employee writes before it goes into a newspaper? Oh, that's right the city manager, his direct boss, is a retired police officer and his boss, the mayor, is a retired police officer too. I guess the ability to be objective ends quickly when it's another brother in blue.

Seems our Chief of Police is an Obama supporter which must mean he subscribes to the new breed of Democrats who are nothing more than a bunch of socialists who want to spread American wealth around.

What is terribly sad to learn is that our Chief of Police is just another bureaucrat looking to Washington and the federal government to increase spending for his own brand of pork and that is funding for police.

Equally troubling is that our Chief of Police appears from what he has written to be totally clueless about the complex social and cultural issues that result in crime and the criminalization of large segments of our population.

What is most troubling is that our Chief of Police thinks that the new president should "include the reduction of crime as one of the priorities of his administration". Really, is that so? A priority?

Chief Dial, let me give you a clue about priorities. First, how bad will crime have to get in America before it will ever become the number one priority of a sitting president? With the current economic and world events, even make the top 10? Second, reducing crime will never, ever be accomplished by making it a "priority". A true and permanent reduction in crime will only come about when the values, ethics, and morals of the citizens who make up our society voluntarily chose to live by all of the rules of society. Third, maybe Chief Dial would care to discuss the "white collar crime" committed by hundreds of police chiefs across the country of underreporting violent crime in their communities to give residents a false sense of security and for personal gain when it comes time for their own merit review and pay raise. Fourth, if our Chief of Police is this clueless about what is actually going on in the police profession we all need to ask ourselves if he is competent to continue to lead our police department?

By Anonymous on November 2, 2008 6:37 PM

1.
"Let's also not forget that we were supposed to be getting back to "community policing" which means we don't need 2 or 3 patrol cars circling downtown all evening. One patrol car for an area this size is more than adequate, two is really unneeded because immediate backup is available from any of the 4 adjacent police beats. Having 2 or 3 officers on foot patrol and occasionally bike patrol would be a better economical use that patrol cars."

Response: Aren't teens part of the community? The crime stats indicate that most crime is committed by young people; they are the market for most of the drugs which are sold by the gangs working for the Mexican and Columbian drug cartels, 1 million salesmen strong and growing.

The drug dealing across the street from the Library was so bad that it resulted in one fatality a few years ago. Totally agree that having the NPD on foot in the downtown would be better; plain clothes better still with only one or two uniformed officers. In high pedestrian areas in Europe, I have seen as many as 20 plain clothes to each uniform. They also have TV cameras in high density areas like the Riverwalk and Downtown.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2.
"Fact is the bike patrols spend the vast majority of the time along the Riverwalk chatting with teenagers. Are we paying these officers to gossip with kids all night long? Or are these their "sources" that are giving them inside information about all the crime and drug deals that are about to go down? I don't think so."

Response:
Actually, the kids know who the drug dealers and gang members (same people) are. Having a good relationship with the NPD, who they may know as their school officers, may not be a bad thing. Every kid in Naperville that you can get going on drugs is worth four or five in Aurora since they have more disposable income.

Refresh my memory, how many pounds of Heroin did the guy in Cress Creek have when he was arrested, was it 1800 pounds or kilos of cocaine in the Aurora bust a few years ago, and was it 400 pounds of cocaine in Woodridge a few years ago, and 300+ lbs of pot in Naperville a few years ago?

Wasn't Birkett's son in the apartments next to Naperville North when he was busted for drugs, not the first in these buildings? Just across the street from the Heroin dealer.

Wasn’t a drug dealer murdered for his drugs and cash in S. Naperville this year? Who was it the neighbors said were frequenting the house, was it eighty year olds?

Now Anonymous who are referring to...the one that plays one?

Oh sure because not one person who does have money takes bribes. No doctors who are making enough to drive a Lexus or Caddie SUV has taken a bribe. Again, the critical thinking here. You do not have to be poor to be taking a bribe. Yes, you could afford to buy a whole strip by taking bribes. Am I saying he did in fact, no but don't say he didn't because he didn't SEEM to be hurting for money. People do all kinds of things when they have plenty of money. And you know I do see all those officers personally driving a Lexus etc.

Oh & who is the one that said 40K would get you a place to rent. First...rent! Lovely, second someone do a little calculating & take 1/4 of your take home on that & see what you have for rent. What is rent in the surrounding area there? Right! Maybe with two salaries but if you are single & only have one salary...you got to be kidding me!

That's right, the napergatians always post facts. Here is a factual statement made early on in this post by Kimberly:

"The only Chicagoland city that is lookng at an 11 million deficit shortfall next year is Naperville. Not even Chicago with its many poor citizens is experiencing this kind of shortfall. They managed their budget without any tax increase...0 TAX INCREASE."

Too bad there is nothing factual in that statement. She also employed the usual napergate cult tactics of name calling and personal attacks, as have other cult members here. Obviously, the email has gone out to reactivate the blogging here, making claims of a great organization that really does nothing but make some posts. None of its members seem to want to put up any money to make them the political force they claim they are.

As I said before, the current economic crisis is forcing the city of Naperville to finally reign in its excessive spending, not a handful of bloggers or the local newspaper. Once this crisis passes, it will be back to overspending as usual.

To the Anonymous that wants to live in North Carolina...

You are actually stating that you believe Naperville is like towns in North Carolina? They have the same crime rate, types of crimes, population, standard of living ETC! Wow! Why wouldn't Naperville officers get more than North Carolina officers? You can't see why they would? You know why don't we just do a flat rate then no matter where you live or work. Ya that would make sense.

Let's call a spade a spade,

So long as the mayor and city manager positions are filled with retired Naperville Police officers there will be absolutely no change, no reform... just business as usual. In case no one else noticed it there is another retired police officer circulating a petition to be on the ballot for the next city council member election.

Police rolls will continue to be inflated, police overtime will continue to be staggering, police starting salaries and benefits will continue to be far above the regional and national averages, police pension funding will continue to be inadequate and underfunded.

Change only comes about one of two ways. The first is when the leaders in power decide that it is time for change and take positive steps to bring their vision to fruition. The second is when the voters decide they have had enough and vote to put someone else in office.

I suppose then the Napergatians should have forewarned the whole country then on how every city was doing it wrong & we would not be in the economic mess we are in? Hey you Napergatians get going running for office & working for Wall Street...you can turn the country around! Why is it that Naperville is not the only city having a problem if it is just what a few bad people in Naperville are doing which is causing all your problems?

And wow I & the rest of the country will be watching for when you ideas are put into place & your city is doing soooo much better than the rest of the country. We will all model after your ideas of change. Yes, there is only 1 right solution to any problem in life and when you follow that solution life is just perfect.

You know what...all you Napergatians you make public your family financial plans & results. Lets see how well you are doing. If you have all the answers then you should be doing well yourself. If you are the next Suze Orman then ok lets take your ideas. Better yet...lets have you talk with the new president & get you to work with him & all the Governors to put into place a whole new system for state employees. RIGHT! And you know there are so many people who are foreclosing, what a great opportunity for you to be personal financial consultants for them. You can turn it all around for them. And how many big businesses are going bankrupt...there you go, tell them what great ideas you have & you can turn them around also. Just a bit of observation will do it no doubt. I'm sure those individuals who lost there house would love your advice & the companies would be more than happy to sit down & talk with you on your ideas.

Am I saying you do not have any good ideas or more importantly a few good questions. Absolutely not, but don't act like you know the solution to everything & can fix things overnight.

I guess we will add Melissa to the group who can not understand comparing jobs. I suppose you could not see the idea of comparing Garbage men to police in salary then either? My students have to compare & contrast...you can't do this? Not one person has said what I brought up on current salaries being offered is out of line or false information. Interesting! Again, quite grateful you are not in office if you can't critically think at the higher levels. Critical thinking is not just "observing" & thinking hey...6 bikers just "sitting around". It is thinking perhaps they do have a reason to be there? Perhaps, they have so info that you do not know about. Good God if the citicizens knew everything that was going on in Naperville how could you feel safe to walk out your door. Again, a problem happens & you would be the first to complain there was not enough police presence. This would be similiar to a teacher observing & not seeing any students cheating & thus stating no student cheated. Give me a break! Just because you don't observe something does not mean there is not a problem nor that you want to watch. Now how many people are in the bars & on the streets? Lets see you have how many teachers per student & they are pretty tame in comparison to adults & then adults who may be drunk in bars.

This is as bad as the people who are complaining that the police where not AT the bank to PREVENT the robbery. OMG! Ya, lets have a patrol car at every bank all day long! If that was happening then I would support you.

Someone mentioned about turning in some IDs & taking bribes. Actually, if you think about it, what a great way to take the heat off you & make people think you are wonderful when in fact you may not be. Am I saying that is the case? No, but noone was actually thinking of that possibility...very interesting.

It is the lack of critical thought from those who claim to be Napergatians which makes others not take your ideas seriously.

James,

Agree we don't need 6 bike cops downtown at night. These 6 officers are lucky that they are not laid off during the summer months since their plum job at the schools puts them out of work. The best and most efficient and effective use of these officers is to avoid overtime and to provide back-up for other officers who will be taking vacation time... regardless of day of week or shift... let's not forget that this is a few weeks of temporary duty.

Let's also not forget that we were supposed to be getting back to "community policing" which means we don't need 2 or 3 patrol cars circling downtown all evening. One patrol car for an area this size is more than adequate, two is really unneeded because immediate backup is available from any of the 4 adjacent police beats. Having 2 or 3 officers on foot patrol and occasionally bike patrol would be a better economical use that patrol cars.

Fact is the bike patrols spend the vast majority of the time along the Riverwalk chatting with teenagers. Are we paying these officers to gossip with kids all night long? Or are these their "sources" that are giving them inside information information about all the crime and drug deals that are about to go down? I don't think so.

Regardless, if there is soooo much crime on the Riverwalk then what are NPD officers doing there??? Let's not forget that our Naperville Park District taxes are paying for park police and I would expect to see park police patroling the Riverwalk, not Naperville's "finest".

Seems there isn't much accountability or oversight with the beat officers as it is. Rarely does one see any police supervisory or command staff. With all of these highly trained, college educated police officers maybe it is time to do away with the chain of command mentality and line supervision. True these concepts are brutally necessary with unskilled and even some semi-skilled workers, but that is not the case here. These officers are more educated than supervisory and command officers were just 10 years ago.

The whole structure of the department needs to be reworked with the average beat officer empowered and credentialed to do his job in such a way that really makes all of these supervisory and some of the command positions redundant. Most personnel waste is always found in the middle management area and the police department today is still structured with an organization chart that is 100 years old. Time for Chief Dial to drag the Naperville Police Department into the 2009 whether they like it or not.

This is only a forum for an exchange of ideas. Lets not take ourselves or neighbors too serious, none of us set policy. No one here is the boss, just relax, enjoy each other's company in the "blogoshere zone".

By Anonymous on November 2, 2008 12:48 AM

The napergations probably also believe that police officers children should not be allowed to attend school with their children.

BTW... The napergate man was always know to be weird. I heard that he took away a few Ids, however I also understand that he would take bribes in return to selling to underage kids. Just because you take away a few id cards does not make you a "good citizen".


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Hey Weird Anonymous,

The Napergatians are for the most part middle class citizens. They are not elitists. Most of them are struggling to pay their taxes. That is why they are here in large numbers.

They have nothing against Naperville Police. Many make only 40k or less. They survive because both spouses work. They are not stating police should not be able to make 60k one day. They simply are stating a starting salary of 60k with a 75% pension to boot for a 21 year old police man or fire man who is most likely single, is ridiculous and out of sync with the rest of the nation. It is also out of syn with most other degreed professions who start at much less with no pensions and most times no health insurance unless they pay for it with payroll deductions.

There are many apartments or townhomes a Police Officer or Fire Fighter could afford on a starting salary of 40k instead of 60k in Naperville. He does not need to start his career living in a McMansion at taxpayer expense.

And really what kind of credibility do you have when you make a wild unsubstantiated accusation that the Napergate Man took bribes to sell booze. What proof do you have? What does that say about the Naperville Police Dept if they have never caught him in 30 years while running 2 businesses in town? I thought we had an excellent police dept. Now you are telling me they can't even catch a liquor retailer who takes bribes to sell to minors. How laughable? It is unimaginable that the over 1000 minors whom he had arrested over they years would not have ratted him out by now if he was takng bribes!

It is not in the interest of any liquor retailer to take bribes and risk their liquor license for a few bucks. The Napergate Man never seemed to be hurting for money or running a budget defict. Wasn't he the one paying for all those Napergate Ads to publicise govenrnment waste in the 90s and early 00s? To the best of my knowledge he was able to eventually buy the shopping center where one of his liquor stores was. I guess he bought the shopping center with the bribes WooWoo and yourself gave him over the years...lol...maybe our new thread resident pyschiatrist contributed to this brbe fund!

And again who is off subject here! The attacks never stop on the Napergate Man, the Napergate Movement and the Napergatians. You guys won't stay on message. You simply want the excesses of the establishment to remain while the middle class in town suffers thru high taxation paying for the massive excesses including these ridiculous pensions that have been extinct in the corporate world for a few decades now.

The elitist are the establishment folks who get the city council to approve their downtown buildings without any parking. The elitist and the city council are the ones making the Napergatians and regular citizens in town pay for all these parking garages that should have been paid by the wealthy establishment folks since they were built to accomodate their huge building such as the Promenade. They got wealthy because of the breaks they were given over the years at taxpayer expense. Because of their connections to City Hall. Just imagine the establishment wants to build this huge Omnia Project with the city subsidizing it. With the city being the FDIC(translation taxpayer protection) for them if they fail. They do not want to take any risks. They want to prosper if they succeed and ram it down the throat of the middle class Naperville taxpayer if they fail. What is fair about that?

The city council let this whole mess develop and must be held accountable in the next election. We must all get out and vote. Only if we all vote in large numbers can we bring change and bring an end to this establishment rule that brought us to the financial crises we are currently experiencing. For a relatively small city we are soon to be 64 million in the red and that assumes our police and fire pensions did not get worse...highly unlikely!

I hope Host Ted can find out soon for the residents what the new police and fire pension deficit is after the bashing it took the last 2 months in the stock market. I doubt the taxpayers will vote for any establishment candidate after the new number is revealed.

I hope we get a slate of Napergate Candidates this election so we can have some new choices that care for the average Joe Taxpayer instead of the elitist establishment!

As usual, the Napergatians main focus is on the police department. It is amazing that they still hold a grudge for their hero getting arrested for driving on a suspended license,and trashing a swim club, as he and anyone else should be. I have to give them credit for one thing, they are persistent. They won't be happy until the NPD is gone and their duties given to a private security firm.

The heavy bashing of Napergatians on your threads is uncalled for, Mr. Ted! All they are doing is trying to keep taxes lower. What is wrong with that?

My real estate taxes have risen to almost 12k per year. At one time I thought it would be nice to retire in Naperville despite the cold winters. I have no choice now and must retire to North Carolina where real estate taxes are less than half of what they are here. In some areas, my research indicates they are one third of what they are here.

They have excellent police, fire, and schools just like we do. How can they obtain all these services at affordable taxation rates while we can not afford these same services for even 3 times the cost?

N. Carolina is part of the USA. It is not part of Africa. If they can do it we can do it! Let us try harder and stop bashing the Napergatians and tackle the real problems they are exposing! If we would have listened to them 2 years ago, we would not be in this fiscal fiasco!

Chief Dial,

What is the point of having 6 bike cops roaming downtown for the 2 month time period the schools are closed?

From my observation the number of people downtown is about the same from May 1 to Sept 30. If they were necessary why are they only there for 2 months instead of 5 months? Are you risking our lives the other 3 months? Are we not being protected properly?

How could 2 or 3 patrol cars not be enough for a 5 block downtown area? Of course they are enough! They know how to call for additonal help if anything ever got out of control. Other towns would be willing to help if a brawl developed downtown involving a hundred drunks....something very unlikely to happen anyway. Plus all the bars have numerous bouncers that would help break up a fight before it escalated!

Giving these school cops bike patrol duty is an obvious attempt to make sure police are paid whether they are needed or not needed. As so many Napergatians stated they could be relieving officers who worked overtime during they year in order to reduce their overtime by giving them time off. This would save taxpayers plenty of money.
That is what we want and you should be doing, Chief Dial!

Thanks!

Host Ted,

For nealy 2 year the Napergatians have been on your threads warning city officials that their policies will fall off the cliff one day. Well, I knew the Napergatians were right but I am surprised it happened so soon without city officials having a clue what hit them until it was too late.

All these attacks against the Napergate Man and Napergatians amount to a smokescreen to change the subject instead of dealing with the financial crisis created by the city council and city manager.

Why does Another Anonymous have to think of solutions for the city? He is not getting paid. City Manager pro-tem Robert Marshall should be thinking of solutions. Between his salary and pension he is collecting over a quarter million bucks. It is his duty to come up with the solutions and not the Napergatians. Unfortunately, he has come up with no solutions and can only tell us we will be $11 million in the negative. He won't even tell us how much worse our 50 million plus police pension deficit is after the stock market collapse. Of course, he does not want to shine the light on his $85,500 dollar pension he is collecting from the taxpayers while being gainfully employed by those same taxpayers.

I hope all citizens in town join the Napergatians and oust all those who got us in this mess during the next election. For once we need to go out and vote in large numbers. If not, our real estate taxes will double in the next 4 years. We have a choice! Let's vote in big numbers and teach the establishment a lesson once and for all! Government excesses will no longer be tolerated! They must end immediately.

It sounds like we have a bunch a whiners on here who support the bankrupt city policies.

The Napergatians who seem to be increasing by the day have solutions that simply need to be implemented to slice government waste and reduce taxes.

The Establishment Folks who are probably city employees enjoy the status quo since they are benefitting at taxpayer expense. At least for now!

Once we eliminate home rule and file bankruptcy those who have been greedy will walk away with their pockets dangling outside of their pants......empty!!! Just like those greedy folks at Lehman Bros.who lost there jobs and money. Greed never fails to destroy!

This is a great thread and it could not come at a better time.

Someone needs to wake the entrenched establishment up. They operate like there is no tomorrow. They could care less that our kids will pay for their mistakes if they decided to live in Naperville one day.

I am astonished that Chief Dial and City Manager Marshall can not find a way to eliminate 3.15 million of annual police overtime. It seems if there was a will there would be a way. Unfortunately, there is usually no will when they both will benefit from the outrageous pensions one day.

Some here are saying Marshall is receving a pension from the city who is currently employing him. I find that hard to believe. If true, that would be unconsionable. If the system allows that than it is the system that is broken and Marshall is taking advantage of a loophole to put the srcews to the Naperville taxpayers. And to think one day he can collect a SECOND PENSION. OMG!

Show me one corpoation in America that would allow a person to collect a double pension. Show me one private corporation in American that would allow an employee to retire after only 30 years with full pension benefits especially if 100% healthy?

It should be obvious why the City of Naperville is in a deficit hole. Let us not blame the state for all our problems. The State of Illinios does not dicatate starting salaries for police officers which in the end determines whether pensions are affordable or not affordable.

The city council determines starting salaries. They have to be held responsible for throwing our money away. Don't our city council members read the newspapers?!? Don't they see what happened to all those California cities who decided to give their police 90% pensions?!? Well, in case they don't read the newspapers, most of those cities went BANKRUPT!

And finally I support all those who state we should vote out and elminate home rule which has been used by our council to abuse the taxpayer at the benefit of city staff and employees. That simply is not fair!

By Anonymous on November 1, 2008 2:03 PM
Host Ted, any reason you dont keep these blogs on topic? I dont remember the other editor who left but I believe he would not allow the Napergate Cult to ramble off the topic. The topic was about the reduction in the police force?

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Sir or Madam,

Host Ted chooses great topics that help prevent government waste if only someone would listen. The Napergatians keep it on topic. They are very interested in police waste, police overtime, police staffing, useless police bike patrols and potted plants sitting in jury boxes all day collecting overtime at taxpayer expense with less than a 1% chance of ever being called especially in the morning.

WooWoo is obvioulsy not a Napergatian. He is one of the city or establishment folks who tried to change the topic to the Napergate Man in order to take the heat off the police dept.

The new pyschiatrist we have here is also not a Napergatian. He tried to change the topic to teacher's salaries in order to take the heat off the police dept.

The reason you folks blame everything on the Napergatians is because you simply can not debate them. Over time they have proved all you folks wrong over and over again....foolishly wrong!!!

The Napergatians warned about the excesses in the police dept. and other areas of municipal government right here on Ted's Threads. If you folks would have listened there would be no financail crisis looming at City Hall at this moment.

It sounds to me that the oppostion writing anonymously are police officers trying to save their jobs and unaffordable pensions. Who would not want to save a job that pays 120,000 dollars and a $90,000 pension from ages 51 to 101? But the question is who is going to pay for it? That is what you folks don't seem to get.

You guys must not read the Naperville Sun when you are off duty. Have you read that your penison is 53 million dollars in the hole and growing negative exponentially each and every year? Probably not! Have you guys read that we have an 11 million budget deficit above and beyond the pension deficit? Have you read that the stock market losses probably devastated the pension fund even further for police and fire?

Those are the topics. The Napergatians are on topic right with Host Ted. You city folks are changing the subject by attempting to discredit the credibility and reputation of the founder of the Napergate Movement instead of focusing on the message of his followers. That is where the problem lies. What don't you guys get?

I guess the napergate wackos believe that only they should be allowed to make a decent salary. They must be better than everybody else. Sounds like they believe that they believe cops should not be paid enough to buy a home and raise their children in naperville. - typical elitist attitude.

The napergations only know how to provide foolish solutions that cannot be implemented. The unions have to vote-and have arbitration hearings. Just because a few people say..."lets only pay them 40k per year=it cannot happen. Not realistic just ignorant.

I have a solution...pay each police officer what the average household income in Naperville is.

The napergations probably also believe that police officers children should not be allowed to attend school with their children.

BTW... The napergate man was always know to be weird. I heard that he took away a few Ids, however I also understand that he would take bribes in return to selling to underage kids. Just because you take away a few id cards does not make you a "good citizen".

Wow...John Q.! If you can't figure out the point then that may explain your previous posts. The point is if teachers just getting out with a Bachelors and are getting those salaries in Chicago & they do not do what police officers do everyday on the job then certainly the officers deserve just as much! You really could not understand that.

I did not give "psychobabble". Kimberly was "playing a psychologists" & I called her on it. I DID give real salaries and made the point that these were IN our state and the populations. Did you miss that. Those are CURRENT job openings. Are you saying the ones I provided are inaccurate? Just do a google search on current officer jobs in IL.

I can see you & Kimberly do have issues. If you can't see the point and disregarding the information I provided that is current & in our state with populations then you both have issues.

By Anonymous on October 31, 2008 5:45 PM
First of all Kimberly, as someone in the psychological profession I would suggest you be careful who you suggest needs professional help.

___________________________________________________________________

It seems you may need some professional help, Mr. Pyschiatrist. This thread is about the police and city and you swithced it to the teachers. WooWoo, your patient switched it to the Napergate Man and WooWoo's personal drinking habits of 15 years ago. What is with you and your patient?

What do teachers' salaries have to do with police salaries?

Blogger Diana posted comparitive salaries for police throughout the nation.

Her research showed Naperville Police got paid more than small towns, large towns, small cities, big cities, rich towns, poor towns, farm towns, villages and even the FBI. The only towns she found that paid more than Naperville Police were a few towns surrounding San Francisco. Those towns to a large extent have mostly since filed bankruptcy. Many of their police officers have been laid off, many have quit and they all lost their pensions.

I think the Napergatians would rather see police take a reduction in pay and pension rather than see 20% of the police force be laid off to balance the city budget. Let us hope the senior 80% of the police force cares about the junior 20% of the police force who would be the onces laid off to balance the budget and choose to spread the pain to all police equally and equitably.

If you have a better idea, post it for us to review. Don't give us your pyschobable. Save it for your patients, yourself and WooWoo!

Host Ted, any reason you dont keep these blogs on topic? I dont remember the other editor who left but I believe he would not allow the Napergate Cult to ramble off the topic. The topic was about the reduction in the police force?

It is very obvious to me that Teddy likes to have a negative weekly chit chat about the city police and fire department. Its always neatly masked title but it always ends up being a NG Cult complaint forum which is always the same, with the same simple minded people. Never any facts, always opinions on how to run the city. I didnt see any cult members running for city council or maybe I missed it.

Keep on topic, its the least the editors could do.

Amerish,
I see no conflict between Kimberly and Marilyn. This has become a hypothetical discussion based on WooWoo's allegation that there were way more minors out there than the 200 the Napergate Man caught that year.

It is very possible that the word did not get out to the 200 that were trapped. It could be that the word got out and they thought their IDs were too good for anyone to suspect and took a chance.How many racoons enter a trap to get the bait thinking they can make it back safely! What some of the minors did not know was they would have to undergo interrogation of birthdate, address, middle initial, etc and thus they got caught while thinking they could beat the system. Basically, they failed to memorize the misinformation on their fake IDs. Or had a hard time remembering what they memorized when under pressure of being interrogated.

It is possible the word reached 400 minors that EV Liquors was very strict and possible it did not reach 200 minors in time before they got busted.

How can one get in the minds of 600 minors? Most teenagers are bold and fearless and do not think of the consequences of their action as they think they are invincible at that young age.

Every adult in Naperville knows it is illegal to drive intoxicated. Yet, 800 take a chance and get busted by the NPD annually. Another 1600 take a chance and probably don't get caught by the NPD. They may be caught next time or next year by the NPD. If they are lucky, maybe never! Does that mean the NPD does not do an excellent job with DUI offenders because they only get 800 a year. That is best in the state and they deserve commendation. Extra Value Liquors was best in the nation and the Napergate Man got the commendation he deserved nationally.

Out of those hypothetical 400 minors WooWoo feels got away, many could have been caught by the Napergate Man next time or the next year. Some may have turned 21 before they got busted. Not everyone gets busted! Some could be the 38 busted by the 100 other liquor establishments!

No one is perfect. One should not be caught debating WooWoo's less than credible hallucinations. I do believe he needs to see a shrink!

It is much wiser to stick with the facts provided by the Naperville Police Dept. and introduced into the court system. Those facts were vetted out and are accurate.

The bottom line is the Napergate Man confiscated more fake IDs(over 200) than all other liquor establishments in Naperville combined times 5 or 6 times.

Those are the indisputable facts. They indicate the Napergate Man did a remarkable job. The rest is speculation that does not belong on this thread.

I am surprised that there are some on this thread think that we should allow a guy like WooWoo call the Napergate Man a criminal and for the rest of us to not defend an innocent man.

This issue about the Napergate Man could have been avoided if Host Ted had not posted the falsehood by WooWoo. Host Ted chose to post the comment which generated the debate!

It was a political debate between the Napergatians and Establishment Folks about cost cutting measures the city needs to take. Suddenly this WooWoo guy changes the subject to become about the character and reputation of the Napergate Man who he called a criminal.

These have always been the tactics of the Establishment Folks. When you can't win a debate against the Napergatians, begin attacking their leader by calling him a criminal. Try to discredit the movement if you can not discredit their message. How insane!!!

I would like to see Host Ted step it up and prevent libel on his thread. It would be a much better thread with much better viewership without blatant libel such as those comments by WooWoo. They are really not necessary. Just my opinion!

Anyway thanks for finally driving that bus, Host Ted! It seems like we are getting somewhere if we can stay focused on the current issues of government waste resulting in intolerable taxation.

My last post on this topic to John Q. Public as I grow weary of a debate were 10% of your taxes is at issue and 73% is some sort of sacred cow: One gas station was robbed, not two as you incorrectly wrote. The correct text should have been Shell robbed and the attempted robbery of the Mobil. Overwhelming and "too many police" as some of you believe responding to the first caused the robber to flee back to the "Tree" area, home of new Democrat Naperville residents on foot where he went into hiding. The clerk said the robber saw TOO MANY police vehicles flooding the area and fled eastbound on Bailey. The good news, investigation is yielding some positive developments. There may be an arrest of an Obama voter before the election. Hope he did all of his voting at various in the City and Naperville locations early. Finally, the blog is littered with posts by Napergaitians within the last 6 months. You need to check the archieves a little closer. They are like gum on the bottom of my shoe. You just can't get rid of them.

Kudos to "Ray" of Light and Glock22 for discussing the real question asked at the top of this blog (what a concept!) and not going off on a Napergate RANT! Why can't people act like adults having an intelligent but spirited discussion instead of constantly going back over all the Napergate crap? Move on.................

Here we go again as former President Reagan would say.

For the most part Napergatians have not even been on this blog site for the last 6 months. We did not start anything.

City folks pretty much debated the Main Anonymous and Another Anoymous and got in fights with them just like they got in fights with the Napergatians a year ago.

What I see here is a bunch of sour losers who are trying to pretend to be the city saviours. A year ago before the crisis was this apparent, they claimed everything was rosy even though the Napergatians warned repeatedly that this budget crisis was coming. Well, it came and no one can deny it or hide from it.

The best the City Boys could do is counter the excellent 15 point proposal that Another Anonymous made. Their proposal unlike AA's makes no sense and saves little to no money. Why not consider accepting AA's proposal or some points in it? The city seems to be accepting a few of his points and is likely to adopt a few more. The best one being the firemen proposal which was already accepted by the city and is expected to be implemented.

As a fellow Napergatian said earlier today, I would rather have 300 cops making 40k a piece watching my city than 200 cops making 60k a piece. Of course these are starting salaries I am referring to. Maybe we could have prevented that double gas station robbery on Washington 2 days ago. Can you imagine a robber was able to hit 2 gas stations within blocks of each other before the cops got there.

I think this points to the fact that we have too many cops downtown and 2 few cops in other parts of the town. As many others, I feel these bike cops are useless. If a double robbery ever occurred on their shift how could they help patrol officers elsewhere. The time of arrival would be a half an hour and the robber would have held up 4 gas stations instead of 2 gas stations.

Maybe we should put up video surveillance in downtown just like London and free those 6 bike cops to help in other parts of the town where they are truly needed. Or help detectives solve more serious crime and others who are overburdened with massive back logs.

As I see it these bike cops are potted plants no different than those cops who show up in court every morning knowing they will never be called since the Judge is pretty much doing status work and not hearings or trials. It sickens me to see 12-15 Naperville cops sitting as potted plants in a jury box, collecting unaffordable OverTime and never being called. There has got to be a better solutions. Can you think of one Mr. John Q. Public? You seem to be the level headed wise man on this blog site!

I am sure if a trial was to take place which is rarely, a judge could delay for a half hour until the police officer arrives. He delays for millions of other reasons. I am sure if he did not want to delay, another witness can be called until the officer gets there.

But to pay all this OT for nothing sickens me. Other towns simply don't have their cops in Dupage Courts unless they know they are going to be needed or called. Check any other courtroom out and see for yourselves, my fellow bloggers, when you get your next traffic ticket or are called for jury duty!

In Naperville, the City Manager and Police Chief have lost total control. They have no concern for taxpyaer money. Only their money and their current or future pensions. The city manager is even double dipping while working on a second pension from the taxpayers. He sounds like he graduated from Lehman's Brothers on Wall Street. Apparently, greed wiped out LB. Let us hope greed does not wipe out the City of Naperville and its employees.

We all saw today in an article posted by fellow Blogger Bubo that greed has wiped out some California towns who overpaid cops and firemen. Can you imagine they were giving them 90% pension at age 50!?! Of course they had to file for bankrupty. Let us hope we in Naperville don't follow suit and have to file for bankruptcy.

I hope the Napergate Man does resume his ads and gets a slate of 4 progressive candidates endorsed and elected to put an end to the shenanigans we are witnessing daily in our town.

Holy Cow! An 11 million dollar deficit next year above and beyond the 53 million pension fund deficit for just the police and fire fighters. Who the hell is going to come up with all that dough? I know my family is on a tight budget and we can not afford a single penny in increased taxes. We are deeply in debt because of this subprime mortgage mess and the con artists who encouraged us to load up on debt while promising us that real estate unlike the stock market only goes up. Yeah, I know better now!

Sadly the greed of the police and fire unions will result in the termination of many police and firemen in order to balance the budget again. It seems police and firemen should care about each other and agree to reductions in salary and pension to save their fellow officers and fire fighters jobs!

It appears the only solution to really straighten this town out is to put this HOME RULE back on the ballot and call for a vote to abolish it. This is where all the excess started and this is where all the excess must finally end!

What I see here is that the Napergatians are very good debaters. When they call out the Establishment Folks on their latest fairy tales, the EF begin the name calling.

And sometimes but not often the Napergatians counter the name calling with more name calling. But usually the EF folks such as WooWoo, TB and Ken start it.

Let us not forget TB called AA a criminal on another thread. Here WooWoo calls the Napergate Man, their founder and leader, a criminal. It is all over the place as to who starts it. Very obvious!

Just my observation!

First of all Kimberly, as someone in the psychological profession I would suggest you be careful who you suggest needs professional help. Your replies are of concern when you make assumptions of people and attempt to slander them personally rather than just reply to the points logically. There is no need for that, it actually makes you lose your credibility on anything else you have stated.

Now just because you claim this person may have be credited for confiscating many fake IDs, does not mean he is above questioning or the only one that contributed. I saw that in WooWoo reply. He was just saying, wait a second others contributed & this man was not a God! I'm not sure why you did not see that. And just because someone does something wonderful does not mean every idea they have is wonderful from that point on.

Your idea of starting salary does not even show you took into account experience. Anyone knows that not all starting salaries for ANY position is the same. There is a range based on how much experience. You bring in a fresh recruit is different than bringing in someone starting with 10 yrs experience. Please critically think a bit. Heck even teachers have a starting salary range. And it does depend on location, location, location! Starting salaries for teachers in Naperville vs Chicago etc. Lets see...just a simple Google search brings me to

Deerfield position, Salary: $52,562 - $72,699 Population: 18,000
St. Charles Salary: $52,562 - $72,699 Population: 18,000
Hazel Crest Starting Salary: $44,358.10
Harvard Salary: $48,151 - $73,217 Population: 9,500
Peoria Salary: $43,108.17 - $67,233.87 Population: 113,000
Hanover Park Salary: $49,316.80 - $71,968.00 Population: 39,000
Schaumburg Salary: $48,151 - $73,350 Population: 75,000
Kenilworth Salary: $56,616 - $76,474 Population: 2,600

Now what was the population of Naperville? Over 128K I believe? Now you have to factor in what you are dealing with of course but considering the population, income level of Naperville, experience and many other factors it does not look that much out of line to me. You would expect starting salary for any job in Naperville to be higher than some small rural town! Not a one of these above is as low as 40K! Heck the starting salaries for Chicago Public Schools with a Bachelors is $46,761 - $51,822 for 40 weeks! 52 weeks first lane & step is 54K & that is no previous teaching experience from what I see on the CPS website! Do some research & comparing before you just pick some salary out of the air.


Kimberly on October 29, 2008 8:28 PM
the youngsters went to all liquor establishments. Why would they single out for example Extra Value Liquors as the place of choice when it was by far the strictest in town? They had no clue it was the strictest in town since youngsters do not read newspapers or care to watch the news.

Thus the minors fell in a trap in his store and he made the effort of not only confiscating their fake IDs but taking their license plates numbers and turning them into the police.

Other liquor establishments may have turned minors down occassionally but did not make the effort to confiscate the IDs like Mr. Esmail did, so the minors continued attempting to use their fake IDs thoughout Naperville and surrounding towns until they eventually made the mistake of going to Extra Value Liquors where they were eventually and certainly busted.


Marilyn on October 31, 2008 9:01 AM
Why do you assume the other 400 minors with fake IDs even stepped foot in Extra Value Liquors? Maybe those were the smarter street wise offenders who were warned not to go to Extra Value Liquors after they were tipped off by the 200 that fell in the trap there!


___
______________________________________________________

Kimberly and Marilyn, you seem to be in disagreement with each other. First Kimberly claims that minors fell into the NGM trap of trying to buy alcohol from his store. You go on to say that since youngsters don't read the papers they would have no idea that Mr. Esmail was so vigilant. You also said that eventually they would end up at extra value liquors in an apparent random event. If the kids warned each other not to go there it would make sense, but you claim this does not happen ("they eventually made the mistake of going to Extra Value Liquors"). Then Marilyn explains to Woo Woo that those not caught at his stores were the smarter street wise offenders warned not to go there.

So Kimberly claims the underage kids aren't smart enough to know not to go, but Marilyn claims there was an apparently large group of street wise kids who knew not to go there. You two should exchange e-mails, or better yet perhaps start blogging together at Dunkin Donuts so your stories match up.

To John Q. Public: I know it was Edwards. Just wanted to see if Kimberly would jump on me and be more interested in calling my attention to the error or comment on the rest of the post. I am dissapointed. By the way, the Edwards story WAS known by the major media but it was buried. It would have remained buried if it hadn't been for of all things the National Inquirer. My suspicion is of course had the media been timely and impartial to the candidates, Hilary would have garned most of the people that abandoned Edwards and the edge would have gone to her rather than Obama. It could be that the Inquirer will break this story too, if there is one as you say. I wouldn't close the door on it. But the premise of the post remains. We should be looking to the management of the school system of our tax money first and foremost since they tax and spend the lions share of it. $500 a month and climbing for me.

An interesting factoid from Bubo's link .

"According to the FBI, the national average for sworn law-enforcement officers is 2.4 officers per 1,000 residents."

Per the Naperville Police Department's 2007 Annual Report, the NPD has 189 sworn officers. With a population of 145,000, this means Naperville has 1.3 officers per 1000 residents, just over half the national average. So NPD officers may be overpaid, but the department is not overstaffed.

Kimberly, Please tell me where you saw the information you have described in this comment I would like to be able to verify it. Also who is "the president of the firemen"?

By Kimberly on October 29, 2008 10:05 AM
"The president of the firemen wanted to take control of his pension portfolio and invest it in higher returns.....meaning high risk stocks instead of low risk stocks and bond. If he was given the green light, he would have destroyed the financial well being of every firemen in Naperville. This guy needs to resign for trying to gample with his troops hard earned money."

By Fred on October 30, 2008 7:07 PM
Kimberly speculates.............

"At some point city officials woke up to what the Napergatians have been saying when the budget could not be balanced despite a 10% tax increase. Yes, even with this huge tax increase, they were still $5.1 million short before they could balance the budget. At that point they knew they had to listen to the Napergatinas and cut excess fat and in fact have begun the process."

I bet the Napergate man is embarrassed to what his legacy has become.

####################################################################

Fred,

I doubt the Napergate Man is embarrassed to what his legacy has become. If you were around in the Napergate Era, you would have known he was called every name in the book and attacked every which way possible. He never wavered from his beliefs and history is now recorded in his case. Most people never recognized until after the fact his enormous accomplishments. To a great extent only after the Appellate Courts vindicated him did he gain respect in Naperille with the majority of the population. Up until that point, most residents believed the propoganda the City of Naperville was spreading and spewing about him except for his fellow Napergatians who stood by him through all his lengthy battles until he won the war against City Hall!

I think the Napergatinas are following in his footpaths. We are not going to stop holding government accountable just because a few clowns on this blog site criticise us. We need to be persistant as he was. We know that if we are persistent, the end result will be better government at a lower cost. It will mean affordable taxes. It will means we can remain in our homes and continue living in a city we love and adore.

The people who are never criticised and made fun of, are the ones who do nothing....accomplish nothing....watch the world pass by them until they pass away. Most Napergatians are activists and do not fit that category.

Barak Obama is being criticised every day. People accuse him of being a Muslim as if being a Muslim is a crime. People accused him of associating with a professor at the Univerisity of Chicago who has pro-Palestinian views....as if that is a crime. People accuse him of being from Africa as if that is a crime. And some people go as far as accusing him of being a terrorist....so laughable!

Obama is willing to take all the heat. It is part of wanting to be who he wants to be. When he is elected President which is very likely, he will get the last laugh.

When we Napergatians set the city on the right path we will also get the last laugh. People were laughing at us last year when 300 of our numbers stated the city is being wasteful and will face the music sooner or later.

Well, a year later the city is facing the music. They are telling us we will increase your taxes 10% despite layoffs to overcome the $5.1 million deficit. What are they going to tell us next year when they have to overcome an $11 million deficit. They may have to tell us we will increase your taxes 20% despite additional layoffs to overcome a deficit twice as large that they are already admitting to. Let us hope when the true numbers come out it will not be

Where did the Napergatians go wrong in warning the city a year and a half ago right on this blog site that this budget disaster was looming? No one was listening! Did we not ask Host Ted to ram his bus into City Hall to wake our City Officials up? He refused! He said we have to lead. Well, we did lead!

Finally, Host Ted rammed the bus into City Hall in the form of an excellent opinion about government waste and high taxes. A little late but nevertheless he finally rammed the bus and they are finally smelling the coffee....or let us hope so!

Glock wrote:

"You look stupid when you broadcast your vote, especially when you post Kerry signs and he's fathering children with other women while his wife is fighting breast cancer."

I believe you meant "Edwards" rather than "Kerry." You have your former presidential candidates mixed up.

"And what about Obama and Vera Baker? Sorry, thats ahead of the curve and off topic. Check that name out on Google AFTER the election."

Well, unless someone changes his or her story, nothing will come of this, as all parties involved currently deny anything untoward happened between Sen. Obama and Ms. Baker. But if something does come up, you can call on Obama to do the Republican thing by divorcing his wife and marrying Vera Baker.


GHOST OF CHRISTMAS FUTURE?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122540831980086085.html

Wall Street Journal

California Cities Cut Police Budgets

Housing Downturn, Weak Economy Sap Revenues, Forcing Public-Safety Reductions

Hey WooWoo,

When was the last time you saw your shrink?

So now that Kimberly reminded you the Napergate Man captured 200 of your buddies who were using fraudulent IDs, you say 600 of your buddies had fake IDs and he missed the other 400. Wow, WooWoo!

Assuming you are right, there were at least 100 other liquor establishments in Naperville in the Napergate Era. Why was it the responsiblity of the Napergate Man to confiscate all 600 fraudulent IDs in town? Don't the other liquor establishments have some responsibility? Don't the Naperville Police have some responsibility?

The Napergate Man did his job. He confiscated more fake IDs than all other liquor establishments COMBINED times the multiple that Kimberly mentioned which I believe was above 5.

If I recall correctly court records revealed the other 100 establishments confiscated a total of 38 fake IDs combined while the Napergate Man and his employees singlehandedly confiscated 212 in that one period introduced to the courts. At some point I believe Blogger Ameena dug up the exact number from old Napergate ads in the library and posted them for us.

So my question to your pyschiatrist, WooWoo, is why you are criticizing the retailer who did more than everyone else but obviously was imperfect since he may have missed you...something I highly doubt however! I suspect you were caught in the spider web and that is why you are upset a decade and a half later.

Why do you assume the other 400 minors with fake IDs even stepped foot in Extra Value Liquors? Maybe those were the smarter street wise offenders who were warned not to go to Extra Value Liquors after they were tipped off by the 200 that fell in the trap there!

Let us use some common sense, WooWoo. I guess you have none. Are you footing the bill to your pyschiatrist or are Mom and Dad still paying your bills? It seemed like you never grew up or matured. I bet you still live at home with Mommy and Daddy. I bet you are still drinking your case of Key Stone Light every night before you sleep. I bet you have a hangover every morning while you try to write on this blog site! Your posts show you are definetely hungover! Sober up WooWoo next time you try to post here!

Hey WooWoo,

When was the last time you saw your shrink?

So now that Kimberly reminded you the Napergate Man captured 200 of your buddies who were using fraudulent IDs, you say 600 of your buddies had fake IDs and he missed the other 400. Wow, WooWoo!

Assuming you are right, there were at least 100 other liquor establishments in Naperville in the Napergate Era. Why was it the responsiblity of the Napergate Man to confiscate all 600 fraudulent IDs in town? Don't the other liquor establishments have some responsibility? Don't the Naperville Police have some responsibility?

The Napergate Man did his job. He confiscated more fake IDs than all other liquor establishments COMBINED times the multiple that Kimberly mentioned which I believe was above 5.

If I recall correctly court records revealed the other 100 establishments confiscated a total of 38 fake IDs combined while the Napergate Man and his employees singlehandedly confiscated 212 in that one period introduced to the courts. At some point I believe Blogger Ameena dug up the exact number from old Napergate ads in the library and posted them for us.

So my question to your pyschiatrist, WooWoo, is why you are criticizing the retailer who did more than everyone else but obviously was imperfect since he may have missed you...something I highly doubt however! I suspect you were caught in the spider web and that is why you are upset a decade and a half later.

Why do you assume the other 400 minors with fake IDs even stepped foot in Extra Value Liquors? Maybe those were the smarter street wise offenders who were warned not to go to Extra Value Liquors after they were tipped off by the 200 that fell in the trap there!

Let us use some common sense, WooWoo. I guess you have none. Are you footing the bill to your pyschiatrist or are Mom and Dad still paying your bills? It seemed like you never grew up or matured. I bet you still live at home with Mommy and Daddy. I bet you are still drinking your case of Key Stone Light every night before you sleep. I bet you have a hangover every morning while you try to write on this blog site! Your posts show you are definetely hungover! Sober up WooWoo next time you try to post here!

I guess the Establishment folks in town feel the more you pay for cops, the better cops you get.

Maybe they feel if we paid our soldiers 100k, we would get better soldiers.

I guess they want us to pay our cops a starting salary of 100k.

A cop like a good soldier is not all about money....or at least should not be all about money....he should be about public service to his or her community.

The Napergatian proposal of paying cops a very competitive starting salary of 40k instead of 60k makes a lot of sense....maybe too much sense.

If we want better security in town, we could afford 300 cops for the price of 200 cops if we paid them 40k for a starting salary instead of 60k. 300 cops could be in more places than 200 cops. They have 50% more eyes.

The other day an armed robber held up 2 gas stations on Washington before the cops could get there. How is our security in this town so good if a cop can hold up a Shell and than a Mobil nearby before the cops even show up? I have never heard of this before and yet the Establishment folks say we are doing everything right and the Napergatians are clowns.

Sorry, but I agree with the Napergatians. They make much more sense than the handful of Establishment folks who don't know what they are talking about.

A year ago they said everything is perfect in town. Now they suddenly backtracked and agree with the Napergatians that things are not perfect and we need to watch our expenses.

Amazingly, they are suddenly agreeing with those they were criticising, laughing at and calling clowns. I guess we finally know who the real clowns in this town are. The handwrting is on the wall!

Let us implement Another Anonymous' 15 point plan before we go down and put our town up for sale in a foreclosure sale. His points are clear and will bring us a surplus instead of a deficit.

Marilyn/Kimberly,
I guess you were perfect-not me I had the napergate man. BTW I was never caught-until college! Point is less police=more crime. Get used to more underage drinking/dui/thefts/rapes/murders. That is what you choose. You people would rather choose peoples lives to be altered forever by heinous crime rather than pay for adequate protection. You obviously don't live in Naperville or have children.

If I were a criminal-a real one-I would be paying close attention to the decreased police presence and become allied with your cult.

Drink up! LONG LIVE NAPERGATE FOOL!!!!

Glock 22, you might want to check your facts before you post a story..."especially when you post Kerry signs and he's fathering children with other women while his wife is fighting breast cancer." By Glock 22 on October 30, 2008 9:48 PM . It wasn't Kerry who "allegedly" fathered a child while his wife was fighting breast cancer, it was John Edwards his running mate. It adds to credibility when you actually have your facts straight...

Marilyn –

Even though I think the consensus is that Mr Esmail did a good job stopping minors from buying booze, no liquor store owner or clerk will catch 100% of the fake IDs they see.

You countered WooWoo’s posts by mentioning the number of confiscated IDs and the award Mr Esmail won for his diligence; however, I don’t think anyone has ever suggested Mr Esmail was perfect in this area.

While not defending the content of WooWoo’s posts, I think Ted published his posts because he’s just as entitled as you or I to write about his experiences. You don’t have to believe him but if he says that was his experience at the time, so be it.

This Napergatian obsession with calling on other people to be banned or censored from these threads is misguided. You want the threads to retain credibility, yet who’s going to believe anything written here if the host makes the thread one-sided? If you want an all-Napergatian blog, I suggest you start one. I’m sure the “thousands” of Napergatians would each donate $1 to cover your expenses.

T.B.

jack on October 29, 2008 11:42 PM,

You are an idiot. No one believes fear mongers like you. There just aren't any middle of night residential break-ins that you speak of. Everyone knows that for the amount of real crime, as in violent crime, in Naperville that the police department is way, way over staffed.

You are pathetic to use a man who has passed away as your poor example. I hope he haunts you! And to dishonor his widow! That man deserves every penny he got if he put in the service as a wonderful officer. What do teachers get % wise of their pensions? Give me a break?

And to the person who did not even critically think enough to come up with the idea the officer may have been on his break when he was in the library or picking up some books for the department for research...do not claim something unless you know for sure! We could "guess" anything for you then. So lets see...if they officers are on lunch & go for lunch they have to take the time to go to their own cars, go to lunch, come back...give me a break! This now makes sense that people do call on stupid things...just like McCain's brother calling 911 because there is traffic. No, I don't care which side's relative did this...just making the point!

If we are going to reduce police presence in Naperville, you will have to accept less service. You IDIOTS who call the police and file reports about political campaign signs being stolen or vandalized are going to have to stop that nonsense. The police are laughing at you morons and making themselves sick doing it I am told. Stop it! Just accept some POS ruined your expensive, stupid $8 sign and move on. Its a secret ballot anyway, why do you give up your voting privacy right? You look stupid when you broadcast your vote, especially when you post Kerry signs and he's fathering children with other women while his wife is fighting breast cancer. And what about Obama and Vera Baker? Sorry, thats ahead of the curve and off topic. Check that name out on Google AFTER the election. And yes, shame on some Republicans too! Stop reporting things stolen from your cars and SUV's because you did not lock the damn doors. You again look like idiots and are accordingly ridiculed. But its not limited to that. It is amusing that many of you post all of your dribble objecting that the City is spending money on replacing obsolete and maintenance challenged radio systems but have no problem voting "yes" EVERYTIME the school board and its teachers union want to pick your pockets for more money. Not one of you has mentioned where in my case, 73% of my tax bill goes. The freaking school district! You are worried about I think in my case $600 or $700 a year to the City of Naperville and the schools are picking my pocket for almost $6000 a year. Kimberly, get real. Get a clue. Chicago sales tax is 10.25% They still have an admitted $420 million dollar shortage and business continues to flee the City and County. (and State) You don't want Naperville to be ANYTHING like Chicago and pay councilmen $100,000+ per year do you? Don't use those assclowns as an example of anything you want Naperville to emulate. This city does a good job overall managing its finances. There are issues that need to be dealt with but you are off base on where real financial scrutiny is necessary. It is where the most money is taken and spent in Naperville and that is not with the police department. Its the school districts.

I have been away from the blogs recently, because some of the content and “solutions” by you misguided computer heroes have been so ludicrous, that I decided not to waste my time and energy in responding. However, after reading the 9/24 post by Another Anonymous with the 15 suggestions to save the budget, I need to respond now that I have stopped laughing. I will address each of the 15 in order.

1 & 2. The reason Naperville is so crime and fire safe is because the city chooses to remain competitive in hiring the most qualified people to protect our streets. To do this, you need to be competitive with salary. Furthermore, if you take the time to research Naperville pay and benefits with its comparable cities, you will find that Naperville is quite low on the list in both of these areas.

3. If we are going to do this for just retired employees from the city, why not make it a ban on any retired person from working for the city? This thinking is way off base. Is it the expectation that anyone who retires shrivel up and move to Florida? Retired employees, either from the private or public sector are a good resource to provide good services in any capacity.

4. Police resources, whether bike cops or others, are deployed the way crime patterns and need dictates. Lowering the police force on the street, in any way, is a mistake.

5. The last I heard, the organizers of both events reimburse the city for the expense of the overtime.

6. Parking decks are needed. The only way to attract people to the downtown, to fill the shops, to create tax revenue, to cut the deficit, to provide services, to protect the people, to attract the people, etc., is to offer reasonable parking options. Killing these projects will kill the downtown.

7. After a certain point with a vehicle, it costs more to repair and maintain a vehicle than it does to purchase a new one. It is basic municipal economics.

8. Pay attention, the growth is still there. It might not be out, but it is now up. Pay attention to some of the projects being proposed. Also, encouraging growth in keeping the business community modern requires staff to manage that growth.

9. Each department in the city needs a manager. The Fire Department is no different. Do not make the statement about “running fine” until you have the facts. Being understaffed creates inefficiency, which creates more work, which is not cost effective. Hire a Fire Chief!!

10. Every department in the city is nationally accredited, including the fire department. However, if you do your research, you will find that the current staffing of the Fire Department falls below the recommended staffing. Right now, there are three firefighters per fire truck, when the national standard is four firefighters. Not hiring the firefighters for Fire Station 10 is nothing more than Russian Roulette with people’s lives. Your lives. I guess that “few extra minutes” doesn’t mean much until it is your baby who stopped breathing, or your house is on fire. Look at your family and your home and let me know if you are willing to wait those “few extra minutes” for help.

11. Again, cutting staffing for any crew is inefficiency at its best. Fewer people take more time to complete the job. This means the whole project for three people could cost more than if five people did it. Again, basic municipal economics. How about we do away with the entire leaf program, and either let people burn them or make you buy stickers to bag your own leaves??

12. You are advocating spending more money to pave two more lanes than put grass there. Who’s fiscally responsible now??

13. Train station pay parking deck? Finally you have a good idea. Congratz!!
Currently the 5th Avenue study is taking place. Are you a participant??

14. What happens when those “deck owners” go bankrupt and the deck needs to be repaired? We will still end up paying the bills. Again, pay attention to the Council meetings and the zoning in place for the city. All the parking restrictions, permissions, fee schedules and allowances are covered in the City code. Start reading.

15. Naperville taxes are the lowest of any of the communities around. And again, even if you are affected by a violent crime and there is not a police officer available, that would make my stomach turn. The town next door just experienced 2 bank robberies in one day. How would you feel about the police when the bank robbery happens here and the robber is on the loose in your neighborhood? Willing to spend that overtime now?

That is it in a nutshell Another Anonymous. Instead of radical solutions, I think we should be asking questions. Here are a few for you.

A. Why hasn’t anyone asked the City “bean counters” who will take the blame on at least $2.5 million of the deficit because of the failed red light camera revenue that wasn’t generated?

B. Why is the Council unwilling to implement the suggested ½% sales tax? This would only add .50 to a $100 steak dinner at Sullivan’s, and would nearly erase the entire debt.

C. Why can’t the Council swallow their pride and settle the Furstenau lawsuit? At this point it does not matter who is right or wrong, the only victims here are the taxpayers, and it is ALL their faults!

D. With all of the cuts proposed, is City staff and Council prepared to lose all of the national accreditations to all City departments? This will mean that Naperville will drop like a rock out of all the “best of” lists across the country.

E. Last question, why do you and the other “blog heroes” continue to offer solutions that are either impractical or make no real sense? Can I recommend a civics class or municipal financial management class before you next speak?

It will be interesting to see your thoughts!

Kimberly speculates.............

"At some point city officials woke up to what the Napergatians have been saying when the budget could not be balanced despite a 10% tax increase. Yes, even with this huge tax increase, they were still $5.1 million short before they could balance the budget. At that point they knew they had to listen to the Napergatinas and cut excess fat and in fact have begun the process....finally! "
___________________________________________

I am sure the Mayor, city manager and city council scour these blogs every day looking for the insight of a handful of anonymous bloggers to get the feel of the residents. I am sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, you born again Napergatians that think you all so powerful are more of comedy routine to those of us outside your small, and I do mean small group. Maybe back in the day the Napergate movement was something, but now all it amounts to is a bunch of wannabe's trying to make themselves look important to the few followers.

Y'all need to get a life and actually do something productive, blogging isn't going to get anything done except provide a laugh or two with all the drama and childish name calling when you don't get your way. I swear third graders have more manners and people skills than the so called Napergatians around here. You all act like a bunch of spoiled brats, any one that disagrees with you gets called names, accuse of having no credibility and whatever else it takes to make them go away, yet everyone is supposed to believe every half baked conspiracy that you dream up.

I bet the Napergate man is embarrassed to what his legacy has become, a bunch of bloggers that can't even come up with enough $$ to buy an ad in the Sun to get the ball rolling, acting like a bunch of idiots.

Ted,

Can you explain why you published those untruths about the Napergate Man by WooWoo.

It is not like he said only he bought booze and possibly slipped out of the traps set by the Napergate Man.

He stated all his buddies bought booze there despite the evidence indicating they were all caught, arrested and prosecuted. Who did not see that Napergate Ad documenting 200 confiscations and/or arrests in one year right in your newspaper? Who could ever forget that ad? It sticks in the mind like no other ad I have ever seen. Obviously it was a contributing factor to his National Kylix Award for responsibility towards minors.

You have indicated those Napergate Ads of the past went through a lot of vetting by Sun Officials and Sun Lawyers before they were published. I am sure you would not have published them if they were false.

Now we have a yooyoo or woowoo coming on your blogs saying nearly the entire Naperville Central High School student body was buying booze at Extra Value Liquors while it was winning National Awards for responsibility. So unbelievable!

If you want to build your blog site into something reputable and credible you need to permanently ban the WooWoos,YooYoos and Coocoos.. WooWoo is libeling on your threads. By posting his falsehoods, you appear to be tolerating libel.

I urge you, Ted, to delete all of WooWoo's posts. Attacking the innocent is not a way to build a blog site up. Eventually people will migrate off your threads.

Host Ted,

I left this site a few months ago because I got tired of arguing with Joe, Ken and TB in a nonsensical manner. I see Joe matured but Ken and TB are still playing their silly games on your site attacking Napergatians with good ideas.

Anyway, I came on today to commend you for your editorial in the print edition asking city officials to control the budget and halt tax increases.

When I read your excellent editorial, I finally thought Ted kept his word and is finally driving the bus.

I also want to commend Another Anonymous for his suggestions of reducing city waste and government. He put them in writing and documented them a month ago. Even if someone thought of his ideas after he did, he should get credit for being the first to think of his excellent ideas that he went out of his way to document on Ted's Threads. Somebody could have read them and suddenly thought it was their idea. The one who patents gets credit...not the one who said I thought about it. As you know you got some cookcoos on your site such as woowoo who see the world upside down!

I was very impressed with AA's suggestion of staffing the 10th Firehouse from the other nine. What a nice way to keep our expenses down without laying any firemen off. No one is for firing any city employees if a way can be found to reduce taxes without laying city employees off.

But in the end the Napergatians are probably right about the high salaries of city employees leading to this doomsday. You simply can't pay 21 year old recruits to the police and fire departments nearly 60k and expect to make the budget balance. And giving them a 75% pension of their highest salary at age 51 is simply unaffordable.

We have a $53 million deficit in their pension funds that could be a $100 million deficit depending what stocks they were invested in. What bothers me about their pensions is they can lose any amount of money investing their own money and we the taxpayers still have to make it up to them and make sure they get their 75% retirement pension rain or shine.

We can see this is no chump change. Former police officer Bob Marshall is collecting $85,000 while supposedly retired. We all know he is healthy, runs 26 mile marathons, and manages the city for another 170k. That does not sound like someone who retired. It does sound like someone double dipping as many bloggers pointed out. Our laws in this state and city are all screwed up.

Hopefully Darlene Senger can make a difference in the State Capitol changing these laws. Otherwise we will not only have 11 million deficits but face bankruptcy.

Delta Airlines employees refused to budge on their pensions. Well Delta filed bankruptcy and Delta employees lost all their pension benefits. City employees should think of compromising before taxpayers force bankruptcy on them. All we have to do is vote out home rule and the city would be bankrupt as it would no longer be allowed to raise taxes like the drunken sailor it has been acting like in recent years. No one is immune..even city employees. It happened in many cities in California already. Instead of getting fat pensions, they got nothing! Let us wake up!!

It is better to reduce salaries than lay off employees. As we all read Chicago had to lay off 1000 employees to make its budget balance. To make our budget balance next year with that 11 million budget deficit popping its face, we may need to lay off about 100 city employees since most of this shortfall is related to salaries.
No different than Chicago!

Keep up the good work Host Ted and keep the pressure on the city using the print edition. You will find out in due time you will be very effective just as the Napergate Man was when he put the screws on with his Napergate Ads. As one blogger stated, he shamed them until they responded. It is too bad our city is not proactive and only responds to being shamed!

Just an observation I made today but I was at the Nichols Library this morning around 9:45am and saw one of the Naperville Community Officers, in uniform, checking out books. Didn't really think much about it until I saw him drive off in a Naperville Community Officer Chevy Lumina automobile and it then dawned on me that our taxes are paying for him to go to the library and check out books and we are also paying for the gas. Don't mean to sound petty but not really sure why the taxpayers should be footing the bill for this.

I do believe this forum had a lot to do with the city finally moving on cutting costs...something they should have done a long time ago.

The Napergatians spoke loud and clear for quite a long time on this blog site to the deaf ear of the city. They warned the city of what was coming.

The city did not listen. Now we have a crisis and city officials are beginning to implement Napergatian recommendations.

Late is better than never! Hopefully my taxes won't go up the 10% that is being reported on this blog site or I will be selling my home and leaving to Lisle or Woodridge!

WooWoo,

It seemed like since you can't attack the message of the Napergate Man and Napergatians you attack the character of the Napergate Man and falsely accuse him of being a criminal...wowwow is more like it, woowoo!

You sound like the desperate McCain trying to paint Obama into a terrorist because he met with a distinguished Palestinian professor at the University of Chicago a decade ago. McCain had forgot that he raised money for this same professor to do a study on elections in the West Bank and Gaza...lol...

I have to agree with the lady that stated that the Napergate Man probably had you and all your friends arrested for attempting to purchase booze when you were minors. If you are upset about the black blemish on your criminal record, why don't you try to expunge it instead of attacking the Napergate Man for trying to protect you and your friends when you were immature loose cannons about ready to kill yourselves and others!

You people are all daft. 200 confiscated fake IDs from us when we were in High School? There had to be at least 3 times that many of us with them around town. And although Extra Value Liquors was not the top place to go it was certainly not avoided at all. That was the joke amongst many of us back in the day. EVL got all the publicity for doing good for the city while still selling to us. Naperville parents not knowing what their teenagers are doing after school is not just a recent phenomenon.

And I’m not trying to be jerky about it. I’m just trying to remind everyone that the good old days were not always that good. Our parents back then had just as hard a time controlling and keeping track of us teenagers as we parents do today. And don’t be fooled by the propaganda of yesterday or today. The best wasn’t really so good but then the worst wasn’t so bad either.

And I just have to add that the irony of receiving a National Award for having the most responsible drinking campaign in the country, given by the National Retail Liquor Association, in Las Vegas, is not lost on me.

RETIRED NAPERVILLE POLICE SERGEANT DIES

Article posted in yesterday's Naperville Sun

"Normal L. Gieske, 89, died Oct 22 in Hollywood, FL. He retired from the Naperville Police Department in 1968 as a sergeant after serving the city for 24 years."

Let's see... Mr. Gieske retired in 1968 and died in 2008. That means he was retired for 40 years. It also means he retired at age 49.

The article stated that he retired after serving for 24 years which means that in terms of the pension he collected that for every year he put in with the police force he took out 1.7 years of pension.

The article didn't state what his final rate of pay, his retirement percentage, or his final pension pay. It appears that police can retire at a 50% pension after 20 years and a 75% pension after 30 years. This would suggest the pension Mr. Gieske's received was somewhere in the middle between 50 and 75%.

Here is the troubling part and we don't know Mr. Gieske's exact pension at the end, but even just assuming only 3% for an annual rate of adjustment for inflation, etc. the final pension rate had to be at least 2.1 times his final rate of pay. Notice I said final rate of pay. If we look at it from the perspective of having received around a 60-62% pension then his final pension rate would have grown to be 3.3 times the original pension amount.

Are others starting to see the problem here?

The article did not clearly indicate if Mr. Gieske was survived by a wife. If he was she would continue to receive his pension benefits.

That's funny, Kimberly, but a report from the 32nd ward alderman Scott Wauguespak seems to disagree with your no new taxes claim for Chicago:

At the beginning of the month, Mayor Daley began to lay out his recommended budget for the 2008-2009 fiscal year for the City of Chicago. In his October 10th budget address, Mayor Daley proposed a $108 million increase in property taxes and an overall tax package increase of nearly $300 million. http://bucktown.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=1

The fact is, Kimberly, as stated by others and proven by the article, Naperville is not alone in raising taxes while having to cut back services. To claim that a handful of bloggers out of a town of 145,000 forced this move is ridiculous. It is obvious that the economic meltdown forced many big spending towns and cities to cut back.

The sad part is that as soon as the economy starts recovering, the overspending will come back.

The Naperville Police Dept is NOT overstaffed. Period. The officers do a really good job and if you're the one to make a call at 2:00AM that you think there's a burglar trying to break in, I bet you'll want immediate assistance and not want to wait a half hour. I believe the same is true of other public safety employees. I'd rather pay higher taxes and have excellent protection.

Kenny Boy,

Chicago is laying off 1000 employees to prevent a tax increase. In the Chicago Tribune on another date they stated there would be no increase in taxes to residents. Naperville is executing a token and symbolic layoff this year for public consumption while increasing taxes 10% instead of the normal 20%.

I do believe if it was not for the Napergatians massive pressure and exposure applied on this blog site for nearly 2 years, City Officials would have simply went for the full annual 20% tax increase and not instituted the token layoffs to appease the complaining and suffering taxpayers.

Naperville City Officials are realizing it can not be business as usual unless they want huge lay-offs like Chicago. City wages at some point have to be adjusted downwards just as the Napergatians are calling for. The alternatives are either massive city layoffs or increased taxes neither of which in my belief are better and/or acceptable to city employees or taxpayers.

The situation in Chicago shows what outrageous salaries and pensions will do to a city. Let us be smarter and get salaries and pensions to reasonable levels before employees get laid off in masses and get NOTHING! Something is always better than nothing!

The best way to return our city officials to fiscal responsibility is to strip home rule away from them. That is what caused our mess to be much worse than other suburban towns who had to live within 5% increases over the years due to not having home rule. Yes, they will be suffering but not as much as Napervillians. The full impact of our true budget shortfall has not been revealed, yet!

Just wait until Councilman Bob decides to tell us how much the police and fire pension has grown to from the 53 million deficit it was last year. You will be shocked, Kenny Boy!

Naperville is in tons of trouble like Chicago. We should not be in trouble considering we are the wealthiest town in the USA with over 100k in population. We should have a budget surplus from savings to deal with these rough times. Instead we are allowing city officials including our City Manager to double dip at taxpayer expense. Nonsense!

Jonathan,

I said ALMOST single handely and not single handedly. If you were around in that Napergate Era court records, newspaper articles and Napergate ads documented that Mr. Esmail aka the Napergate Man confiscated more fake IDs than all other alcohol establishments in Naperville times a multiple. I can not recall that multiple but it could be 5.

In that Napergate Era most liquor stores, bars, lounges, nightclubs and the Naperville Police Dept. were not as vigilant as they are today. The youngsters went to all liquor establishments. Why would they single out for example Extra Value Liquors as the place of choice when it was by far the strictest in town? They had no clue it was the strictest in town since youngsters do not read newspapers or care to watch the news.

Mr. Esmail even published that famous Napergate ad in the Naperville Sun documenting that he had just confiscated 199 fraudulent IDs by police report number/date and turned the offenders to the NPD for prosecution. He pleaded for "OFFENDER" number 200 not to show up. Number 200 showed up a few days later and was arrested.

Thus the minors fell in a trap in his store and he made the effort of not only confiscating their fake IDs but taking their license plates numbers and turning them into the police.

Other liquor establishments may have turned minors down occassionally but did not make the effort to confiscate the IDs like Mr. Esmail did, so the minors continued attempting to use their fake IDs thoughout Naperville and surrounding towns until they eventually made the mistake of going to Extra Value Liquors where they were eventually and certainly busted. Basically other liquor stores had minors attempting to buy booze but did not have the traps in place to capture/confiscate their IDs and arrest them.

Raccoons go to all back yards equally in Naperville. They will only be captured if a trap is set up. They don't single out my back yard or your back yard, Jonathon. My husband once set up a trap for annoying raccoons and caught 13 in two weeks. We relocated them to the forest preserve. Does that mean they only came and slept under our back deck?

That should be a good example to answer your question as to whether they ONLY came to his stores. Of course they did not only come to his stores. He was just willing to go out of his way to proseute them at great expense and time to himself and his employees. Can you imagine how much time he spent in the Dupage County Courthouse? Can you imagine how much money he paid his employees to be witnesses in court? This all cost money! He was willing to spend the money just as he was willing to spend money on his Napergate Ads promoting responsible drinking. He even won an award for having the most responsible drinking advertising campain in the nation. The advertising campaign was run in the Naperville Sun.

If minors can no longer get booze since most of their IDs were confiscated, it follows logically that they would not be driving drunk as often since they have no booze to drink. Before the campaign by Extra Value Liquors there were many youngsters getting DUIs and being killed or injured in car accidents.

In these post Napergate Era days, all alcohol establishments have joined Extra Value Liquors and tightened up. In the Napergate ERA the only one, running sting operations on his employees at his 2 locations was Mr. Esmail. These days the Naperville Police ironically adopted Mr. Esmail's methods and tactics and actually run stings against liquor establishments for both booze and cigs. They actually do a pretty good job and run the stings against all liquor establishment in a fair and equitable manner.

At the time the NPD charged Mr. Esmail for selling liquor to a minor for running a sting operation on his own business. After several years in courts, hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions of taxpayer wasted funds, the Federal and State courts ruled then not only did Mr. Esmail not commit an illegal act of selling to a minor but commended him and praised him for his heroic efforts of running sting operations on his own stores. The city at the time did not accept the verdicts so appealed to higher courts and heard more praise and commendation a second time from the Appellate Courts of the state and feds. The city took the wise decison and chose not to appeal to the respective Supreme Courts for fear of a taxpayer backlash on wasted money! At some point they basically decided to swallow their ego and admit they were wrong and that sting operations run by an employer against his employees are perfectly legal.

In the Napergate Era we had a very incompetent legal dept. run by a gentleman named Michael Roth. He and his staff at the time were so incompetent they had to retain 2 or 3 Chicago outside legal firms to assist in the battle. All they did is separate the city from its money when they realized how dumb Micheal Roth was for approaching them about such a ridiculous issue.

Somewhere about this time the Napergate Man won a National Award for having the most responsible drinking campaign in the country. It was an award given to him in Las Vegas by a joint committe of the Newspaper Guild of America and National Retail Liquor Association.

The story was very big at the time getting much publicity on many news outlets.

Again I stand by what I said. I did not say the Napergate Mand did it singlehandedly. You said that, Jonathan. I said ALMOST singlehandely and I stand by my comment.

When you say he did a GOOD JOB, I think you are underestimating his efforts just a touch. A GOOD JOB would not get you 1st place in a National Competition with over 5000 national competitors. His efforts had to be superb to have been recognized in the way he was recognized.

I appreciate the sincerity of your post. I just don't think you were following the news or the police blotter in the Napergate Era to understand the depth of what the Napergate Man did for Naperville. I believe it is because of his efforts, that the remaining liquor establishments and the Naperville Police finally stepped up their enforcement. He basically shamed them to motivate them by publishing the statistics he obtained from the NPD in his Napergate ads repeatedly. It was tough love but it worked and really that is all that matters. He accomplished his goals and Naperville is a much safer city. We should all be happy!

I have no doubt that very few minors are arrested these days for DUIs as you correctly state. But this is not a coincidence. It is hard work by all alcohol establishments in Naperville, the NPD, and the heroic efforts by the Napergate Man in getting the ball rolling when this issue was not on the front burner in society.

Unlike yourself, I would like to think that many many lives of Naperville teenagers were saved over the years because of the agenda the Napergate Man pushed and still pushes.

The difference these days is he is not fighting the Naperville Police Dept. They have joined forces with him in his noble cause to fight minors. They made his job easier. And I would like to commend all other liquor establishments for making efforts and strides to bring their strictness to the level of the Napergate Man over the last decade!

Yes, WooWoo is not credible! I am a little surprised Host Ted would allow him to publish such libelous remarks and open this discussion all over again. I always thought if a newspaper knew something was libelous it would not publish it. I guess the standard for a blog site appears different from newsprint!

Have a nice evening, Jonathon!

Kimberly,
You said it best. I am a criminal. Now that there are no police left in naperville I will never be caught for buying my keystone light at the ngm store. HAHAHAH jokes on you. HAHAHAHAA. I appreciate the ngm for never questioning my id. I agree with you that he was a really great man-almost a god like figure to us-best prices in the area. gulp gulp gulp

Kimberly on October 29, 2008 10:43 AM
Yes, those were the good 'ol days when we did not have 800 DUI's a year as the Napergate Man almost singlehanded cleaned Naperville of all fake IDs.

_____________________________________________

Kimberly,

I think the Napergate man did a good job of confiscating fake ID's and I don't think WooWoo is credible. Not sure I understand how the NGM cleaned up ALL fake ID's? Did underage drinkers only go to HIS store to purchase alcohol? If so, why? And how is it that he was responsible for the low DUI instances you reference? When I read the police blotter the number of DUI's involving underage people is quite small. I give Mr. Esmail credit for doing his part but let us not jump to such a conclusion that he single handedly is responsible.

And people just keep confirming throught there posts their character...man! Come on people!

Again, if you don't think other cities (large & small) are not making similar changes right now give me a break!

Oh & yes lets buy foreign cars! That certainly helps our economy. 50K...give me a break when I was a kid we got a new car every 2 years, we would alternate years between my mom & dad. If you can, it is better for return investment than to go until it dies on the road. Heck I would also if I could! Many people do, it is just the economy right now that is making many keep their vehicles longer.

The issues you are talking about are not unique to Naperville or just city govt. It is present almost everywhere. Schools are not dipping into their reserves it is just happening everywhere! What you see on the small scale with a family is happening on a large scale also...talk about trickle down economics! Ha! Though I do find it interesting how gas is going down so fast! This morning it was $2.61 where I'm at & this afternoon same place $2.46! Lets see what happens the day after election!

Those of you trying to convince others, try to just stick to the topic of explaining your point rather than slamming someone personally. It just is more offensive & people see your character more than what you are saying. People will not listen to anything you say then.

Nice to see you resort to the usual napergate cult attack tactics, Kimberly. I have to wonder if your knowledge of Linden Oaks comes from personal experience, since you seem to be exhibiting classic signs of an unbalanced person.

You say that only Naperville is experiencing shortfalls, and use Chicago as an example of a city that has managed its budget, with no tax increase. I wonder why the Chicago Tribune had this story about Chicago's 420 million budget shortfall? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-chicago-budget-analysis-06-oct06,0,6345754.story

Too bad Chicago didn't have Chicagogatians to keep them in line. Too bad the U.S. didn't have USgatians to keep them in line.

Actually, it is to bad an ill informed person such as yourself, Kimberly, has no idea what is really going on in the country and the world.

WooWoo,

It sounds like you are very angry at the Napergate Man for confiscating your fake ID along with another 199 of your buddies at your school.

He posted the 200 police report numbers related to these confiscated IDs from your fellow NCHS students in the Naperville Sun in a full page Napergate ad. Which police report number identified you and your fake ID?

Talk is cheap!

It sounds like the Napergate Man deprived you of your desire to drink while you were an irresponsible underage idiotic teenager. You should be thankful to him that someone as stupid as you is alive to be able to write and tell tall tales.

It sounds like you are a low life criminal who tried to break the law and buy booze while underage. Your bitterness stems from the fact that the Napergate Man stripped you of your fake ID and turned it over to the Naperville Police who notified your Mommy and Daddy what a bad child you were.

Have you paid your Mommy and Daddy back yet for bailing you out of jail? Probably not! Have you paid your Mommy and Daddy back yet for the fines they had to pay for you in court? Probably not! Have you thanked them for driving you to Dupage County Court and skipping work to deal with your substance abuse problems? Probably not!

It seemed like many years later you are still irresponsible, in denial and probably high on heroin and cocaine. It is time to come down, WooWoo!

Linden Oaks offers treatment for sickos like you. Seek some before it is too late! The Napergate Man is not always around to set you straight when you break the law. As an adult it is about time you learned to take some responsibility for your past and/or current behavior.

You sound like a pussy cat making accusations without revealing your identity. Of course, if you revealed your identity you would be tracked down as one of those 200 offenders in the Napergate ad that were turned over to police for proseuction. Yes, those were the good 'ol days when he was swapping you and your buddies like lost flies wandering in his store. It is understandable that you remain bitter 20 years later, after being swapped like a fly!

Yes, those were the good 'ol days when we did not have 800 DUI's a year as the Napergate Man almost singlehanded cleaned Naperville of all fake IDs. Yes, those were the good 'ol days, WooWoo!

Good luck recovering at Linden Oaks, WooWoo!

By Ken on October 28, 2008 10:52 AM
I don't think the blogs had anything to do with the cuts despite the handful of napergatians claiming otherwise

------------------------------------------------------------------

As most people have noted on this blog site you have no reading comprehension.

Hundreds of Napergatians told the city a year to a year and a half in advance that this crises was coming. It is doucmented in not hundrdeds of Napergatian posts but literally thousands. The city did not listen. It stuck to its wasteful spending habits led by the infamous pro-tem City Manager also known as Mr. Double Dipping.

At some point city officials woke up to what the Napergatians have been saying when the budget could not be balanced despite a 10% tax increase. Yes, even with this huge tax increase, they were still $5.1 million short before they could balance the budget. At that point they knew they had to listen to the Napergatinas and cut excess fat and in fact have begun the process....finally!

The city council left at its own exempted itself from non-home rule standards of 5% limits on tax increases and increased taxes nearly 20% a year the last few years to make the budget balance while continuing their wasteful spending habits. This year they saw and realized not only the Napergatians but almost every taxpayer would vote them out of office if they tried another 20% tax increase to keep their fat salaries rising while the taxpayers are in a depressionary economy and suffering! About time...late is better than never!

Other towns without home rule were forced to watch their expenses year after year as they were limited to 5% increases. Naperville was not. They are not making headlines as we are. The only Chicagoland city that is lookng at an 11 million deficit shortfall next year is Naperville. Not even Chicago with its many poor citizens is experiencing this kind of shortfall. They managed their budget without any tax increase...0 TAX INCREASE. We are having a 10% tax increase this year. despite our alleged cost cutting measures! Why!!!

The city has acted just like the owners of those McMansions and McMercedes living beyond its means and is now paying the price.

Well, Ken, if they did not listen to the Napergatians who did they listen to.....themselves????? Their greed....their frugalness...lol!
These are the same officials who buy Fords instead of Toyotas and replace vehicles every 50,000 miles because they thought they had money to burn.

They sure as hell did not listen to your ignorant advice, Ken Boy!

City officials will probably still build 2 more parking garages downtown for 40 million big bucks even though the money is not there. Besides they may need another 40 million to prevent the police and firemen fund from being bankrupted as it may be 93 million in the hole instead of 53 million after the stock market collapse of recent months. Hopefully Councilman Bob can give us a more recent report.

The president of the firemen wanted to take control of his pension portfolio and invest it in higher returns.....meaning high risk stocks instead of low risk stocks and bond. If he was given the green light, he would have destroyed the financial well being of every firemen in Naperville. This guy needs to resign for trying to gample with his troops hard earned money.

Ok, babble boy Ken what is your solution to our financial crises in Naperville. Oh, I get it! You want us all to join you for a Kool-Aid ceremoney at the Riverwalk! Drink all the Kool-Aid yourself...you earned the right with your uselessness to society.

I think it's about time spending was curtailed by government. I'd like to see more of it! At my company we were told to not expect increases or year-end bonuses. I've worked for law firms for 22 years and have never not gotten a year-end bonus. Property taxes are already burdening many. City Council should keep this in mind and hold the line on taxes -- NO INCREASE! The City Manager should review the budget on a line-by-line basis and make as many cuts as possible, hopefully enough cuts to create a budget surplus, which could then be used as a buffer for the future. Pushing people to the breaking point will only result in more reduced spending and possible home foreclosures.

Good. Now the napergate man can go back to selling booze and porno mags to NCHS students just like the good 'ol days.

Oh the stories that I have from when us teens would buy are "keystone light" from the napergate's man establishment. He may have been a criminal-but we didn't care back then.

LONG LIVE NAPERGATE MAN!!! KING OF THE BOOZE

A word on the value of our Police Dept. they are so good at what they do that some think we don't need them.

If the City has made promises that it can't keep, than lets reform the pensions and salaries to what the City can pay, no one likes to be played inc. the officers.

Bubo

To Anonymous 10/28 1:37pm:

The $10 million radio system was approved at the last city council meeting. At the meeting, there were impassioned pleas from both the police and fire chiefs for the council to approve the purchase, and the council debated the issue for quite a while at the behest of Dick Furstenau. The new system is designed to be interoperable with other agencies. The current system is apparently 20 years old and has failed numerous times. Aurora has the same old system and the same problems. Parts can no longer be purchased and the city has to go to eBay to get them.

More details: http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1239655,6_1_NA24_COUNCIL_S1.article

This is one purchase that I can actually support.

What I find interesting in this whole mess is the fact that other surrounding towns don't seem to be having the MAJOR negative impact that Naperville has. Why is this? Too many cops?..Too many Firemen? Too many public employees? Perhapse. Who is the leadership in Naperville that controls the purse strings? COUNCIL! COUNCIL! COUNCIL! They are the ones who approve every decision that impacts Naperville.They are the ones who have limited the revenue source by keeping industry and commercial at a poor balance with residential causing the burden of revenue to rest on the backs of homeowners. They should take responsibility for their POOR decisions. NO, They make the employees their scapegoat. The council chambers should be packed every month with residents demanding a full account of COUNCIL'S actions..oops, I forgot this is Naperworld. Let someone else do the dirty work..I'm too busy.

Wow Anytime, thats not the general opinion. Most people are complaining they never see cops, I guess your one of those bad drivers that runs into them alot.

OMG...the egos here! Just blows me away how people think...I guess it should not surprise me but it still does.

To think anyone would just do what some citizens say is just incredible. You can not make decisions on this alone. Heck, that is what you are complaining about when you say politicians are just doing this or that because it is an election year. You can't have it both ways. Equally, if you believe that just because you thought of an idea/plan you are the only one that could come up with this idea...you do have a major ego. How many people will comment "I thought of that years ago" when some invention is created or something is put into place at your place of employment. Come on. And just because you have one good idea does not mean all your ideas are great.

Anyone who thinks just what "they observe" is the only crime that happens is someone I do not want in office, having the priviledge of driving & voting, and any other position of responsibility.

The person who thought officers just target DUIs because they are bored...OMG...you think they should not be targeted? I've mentioned this before...you go drive the road with these drivers & we'll just let the officers pass on pulling them over just for you & your family!

The fact that the city is freezing hiring & reducing positions has nothing to do with the past comments. Everyone is doing this. These are people who just love to jump on board for the ride and are the backseat drivers telling you what to do when you are doing what they are suggesting in the first place. These are also the same people who are later going to be complaining there are not enough police when something goes wrong. They probably were the ones complaining long time ago which may have led to or atleast ok'd adding to the force initially.

If you do not think police presence makes a difference in the reduced crime in your town, you need to get out of lovely Naperville & visit some cities who do not have what you have.

Someone who does not believe officers deserve pensions & healthcare...get your butt out there & do the job & without those items! You'd be the first person whining for it!

I am surprise so many do not understand that when the economy is down, crime goes up & it is not a time to be reducing the number of officers! What do you think happens as people lose their jobs & houses? Where do they go? What are they motivated to do? Not all but a good number!

No taxes? You get what you pay for people! How can you serious believe you should get services from the govt & not be charged? Talk about asking for handouts.

Am I saying there is not issues in the police dept...heck no and I don't believe anyone in the police department would say that. Every place of employment has problems but to state that you believe you know better what they are, what priority they should be and what the solutions are just shows your ignorance. It would be no different than an outsider having the same attitude about your position & place of employment. Are they above questioning? No. Can they help others understand? Yes. Just don't assume you KNOW BETTER.

The Mayor, Council Members and Police Chief need to take a closer look at the price tags of having supervisors supervising superviors. Maybe they could cut some of these jobs and save money.

Hiring freeze and reduction couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fellows. Maybe they can get rid of the traffic division that sneaks around in unmarked cars giving out tickets. Maybe now the police will come off of their high horses and finally realize that they are not better than the rest of us. Naperville has way too many police. Everywhere you go there is a cop. Is the crime in this town that bad that we need this many cops?

Also why does chief David Dial need a 10 million dollar communciation system?? Dont' they use 2-way radios and cell phones ? Another waste of taxpayers amoney.

It appears as Michelle indicated elsewhere that the City of Naperville began implementing Another Anonymous' plan to reduce taxes. They are working on 7 and 10 but need to work on all of his 15 points.

I agree with "Reduce Government Spending" that taxes will be increased by 10% and not the 4% Michelle mentioned. She did not factor the assessed value increases. No one can afford a 10% increase this year...maybe our city council wants to be voted out of office.

Therefore I urge the City Council to continue AA's plan to avoid any increase this year. Chicago did it...why can't we!!!

Your threads are definetly having an impact on City Officials who were asleep behind the wheel for many years!

Here is AA's plan reposted from another thread:


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By Another Anonymous on September 24, 2008 11:59 AM
Dear Mayor and City Council,

Many suggestions were made on this blog site including on the Napergate Threads and many others regarding what we can do to control our costs.

The hollering by hundreds of Napergatians and many others lasted the better part of a year on this thread. Nobody listened except Councilman Bob who joined the discussion at times and provided valuable information. I suggest all those blogs be reviewed.

HERE ARE SOME PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS:

1. Start policemen at 40k instead of 60k. This will help the current situation and the pension fund system when they retire which is $53 million in the deficit.

2. Start fire fighters at 40k instead of 60k. This will also help the current situaton and the pension fund system when they retire which is $53 million in the deficit.

3. When retired employees collecting pensions from Naperville are working for the city, subtract the pension from their annual salary. Let us not pay them twice when they are suppose to be retired. Don't allow them to qualify for a second pension while already working and collecting a pension.

4. The 6 school bike cops downtown in the period the school is closed are not necessary. The downtown is just as busy one month before they start and one month after they cease patrol. The downtown does fine without them. We need to use them to rest and relieve police officers who accumulated a lot of overtime.

5. Ways have to be found to reduce the $3.15 million police overtime just as the Napergatians mentioned. The Last Fling and Rib Fest need to hire their own security and pay for it. Using cultural sales tax money to subsidize these events by paying 100k in police overtime is unethical and immoral.

6. Cancel the building of the last 2 parking decks downtown. The huge Centennial Beach parking lot is only a scenic 2 block walk and is always empty for the better part of 9 months and on most summer evenings. A trolley running back and forth from the beach parking lot would cost much less than 2 parking decks with a cost approaching 40 million excluding the valuable price of land.

7. City Vehicles do not need to be replaced at the 53,000 mile mark. Let us try to get 150,000 miles out of them before replacing.

8. Cut all the positions related to growth in City Hall since growth has stopped in this beautiful town that once experienced 10% growth per year. Last year was less than 1%. The land is no longer there to sustain the growth of the past.

9. The fire department seems to be running like a well oiled machine without a Fire Chief. Let who ever is running it continue running it and save the salary of a Fire Chief which is over 150k. Obviously this person can handle his old job and act as Fire Chief very easily and without a glitch. Thus it sounds to me like firemen are underworked and can be given more duties.

10. The 9 existing fire stations should contribute one fireman each to Fire Station 10 when it is built and no new firemen should be hired. This could save us about 1 million a year. Once a few firemen get to the scene of a fire, if it is bad, the other 9 stations can participate in a few extra minutes so what is the point of having so many firemen in each fire station. Let us reevaluate now that we are looking at a 10 million deficit.

11. Five individuals were involved in brush collection 2 weeks ago in front of my home. One was simply driving the wood chopper. Never got out of his trailer truck even on big stops. 3 were loading the brush. A vehicle behind was doing nothing but observing to make sure the other 4 were doing their jobs. These 5 positions could be knocked down to 3 very easily. The garbage man gets out of his truck to load the garbage. He has no helper. That is private industy by the way. In my opinion he works as hard as at least 3 city employees. Maybe we need to farm out brush collection if the union won't allow the driver to help and requires 3 guys to load brush instead of only 2. Basically, they were mostly in each others way! And they did not care to sweep the mess they made in the street. Unbelievable!!! I swept it after they left.

12. Building grass medians on streets that require grass cutting weekly can get expensive. I would rather see 75th St have 6 lanes instead of 2 lanes of grass in the middle. At least traffic would flow much better. Check out 75th St. between Washington and Naper Blvd for a great example!

13. A nice parking deck at the train station that would charge for parking and be profitable while eliminating a 1783 person waiting list would be a needed revenue generator. It is guaranteed to be profitable since we already have the waiting list and no guess work is necessary to see if it is needed. McMansion folks in Naperville may have no problem paying 10 dollars to park per day on the lower levels. Ordinary folk could park in higher levels for 3 dollars. Just a suggestion!

14. Making the landlords downtown who charge 50 bucks per square foot buy the downtown parking garages. They built buidings with no parking. That is a form of cheating. They all could have built underground parking but did not because of the expense and they knew Uncle Naperville would foot the bill.

15. The cultural tax and downtown parking tax imposed on residents should be eliminated. Together they chase shoppers to other towns at they add 2.5% to the product or service. This could be contributing to the revenue decline. For those who do not know, the cultural tax is city wide and not just downtown. And to think we use this cultural tax to pay for police overtime just makes my stomach churn.


I could think of 85 more ways to save money but since most bloggers do not like to read long letters, I think I said enough for now.

I can only advise. The Mayor and City Council have the power to implement. I hope they implement. I hope they love Naperville as much as the residents do. I hope they understand they can not continue to bail out their buddies who get in trouble by converting their land from residential to commercial to artificially increase value before bail-outs take place such as in the Ponds of Hobson West! I hope they stay away from subsidizing the great risk involved in Omnia that could end up being costly for the taxpayers.

City Officials were warned by the Napergatians but were not phased. Now they are being warned by the numbers in red. It seems like they have finally been phased!

Let us all work together and hopefully conquer our $10 to 11 million deficit before it becomes reality and hits us in our real estate tax bills.

I think it is finally great that the problem was acknowledged. This is the first necessary step needed to bring solutions. I have confidence that the Mayor and City Council will take the appropriate measures now that we are approaching a crisis stage that is only getting worse.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know the current status of Police Chief Dial's request for a new $10 million dollar police communication system??

Has this line item been cut or at least shelved until the economy is in better shape?

I don't think the blogs had anything to do with the cuts despite the handful of napergatians claiming otherwise. It is nice to give the napergatians a topic that they can bring out all the old false claims again. The police force has always been bigger than necessary, and it is easy to make cuts on a bloated force. I think the city officials listen as well as the average homeowner association boards. Their decision has been made before any item is added to the agenda. They allow public comment just to look like they care what the public thinks, and because the law makes them listen.

Be sure to rent a copy of EVITA staring Madonna for a musical tour of the future.

Police Layoffs?
This may be the least of our problems in a few months.

How large are the salary increases for the remaining employees and the managers planning the layoffs?

4%-6%? Should be zero.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

National debt has grown from $5 Trillion to $10T in a few short years and is accelerating. A government debt bubble, like a banana republic that can't manage its check book.

At what point will the Chinese and Japanese have had enough and stop loaning money to the FEDS so that the FEDS can make the minimum payment on their exploding credit card balance?

At some point our debtors will demand hard US assets as payment for their loans. They are already making noise.

The FEDs are keeping the States on life-support with borrowed money, and the States are keeping the Cities on life-support with borrowed money. When the music stops, who will be left standing? How much of Naperville's budget comes from money the FEDs borrow?

The FEDs have quietly started printing money; maybe the 1 dollar bill will be eliminated in favor of the $20 bill as the smallest denomination. This is the approximate devaluation of the dollar since 1930. Instead of 78 years, maybe we can do the same damage in two or three.

Since the FEDs have no money to redistribute, when redistribution comes it must come from the private assets (401Ks and savings to pay increased property taxes) of individuals and the cash on hand at corporations. Look for massive cash distributions and stock buy backs by companies before the year end. Obama wants to tax small companies, in a recession there is little or nothing left to tax.

McCain unable to grasp basic economics (supply and demand) wants to give the select few (5% who are in over their heads) 75% discounts on their mortgage balances to stop the drop in house prices. We should all stop paying our mortgages and participate in the program; which will be a failure. Obama has been consistently walking and talking like a Euro Socialist, I take him at his word.

Big AL Greenspan has openly lamented the loss of sub prime mortgages as a vehicle for social change. This explains how he walked the US into the mess we are in; he was acting as an agent for social change. All the time I thought he was our head banker. Oh well, another day, another Trillion in losses.

Like the banana republics (and Europeans), will we all need off shore accounts in Euros to keep our cash from being seized? I mean taxed and redistributed to reliable voters.

A Democratic strategist was on the TV Saturday talking about eliminating the 401K plans (to save investors from the stock market, sure) and rolling the obligations into the empty SSA IOUs, which have little to no value in most peoples minds. Translation, the Govt sells off the investments and pockets the cash like Argentina and gives citizens worthless IOUs in their place.

Welcome to North Argentina!

It just keeps on getting better.

Michelle,

Just to put property taxes in perspective. Assessed values of houses are increasing 6%. The 3 pennies is another 4% increase on top of that. The City is planning on raising taxes another 10% after two years of record increases.

A better way to monitor crime. Install television camaras and monitor them from a central location. Have fewer police on the street wasting gas and eating donuts. They could be dispatched to where the cameras feel they are needed most.

Let's replace policemen with technology, just like in the private sector. They do not need overtime, pensions or health insurance. Let's make ourselves a real high tech city.

From what was reported in today's Naperville Sun it sounds like some city council members are more interested in "saving" certain city employee positions than balancing the looming and growing deficit budget.

The Police Chief was quoted as saying we better get used to less of a police presence. That statement alone shows that he doesn't get out on the streets of Naperville much because the police presence is already next to non-existent and which fully explains why hardly anyone obeys motor vehicle laws anymore.

Regardless, there is very, very, very little crime in Naperville. Sure the police will hand out tickets after a crash but the bottom line is that if you don't get in a crash you can get away with just about anything behind the wheel of a car and mostly these are just misdemeanors anyway. The overnight shift of the police department is so bored they have decided to target DUI as one way to prevent them from either falling asleep or going totally brain dead. Throw in some routine, petty shoplifting around the mall and that accounts for 90 plus per cent of our crime.

Based upon the actual crime the average Naperville resident is fully aware that the police department is way over staffed. Most put up with the overstaffing on the basis that they have been led to believe that it is a deterrent to crime and is what keeps the crime rate low. While most of that believe is unsubstantiated and the police department itself preys on fear to spread this belief; we will soon if having fewer sworn officers actually does have a negative effect on existing crime rates. There are a few city council members who do not want to increase taxes to balance the budget. There are also a few city council members who want to raise taxes as one way to solve the deficit situation and protect certain city jobs.

That isn't the way to go. The right way is to cut the fat. We all know it exists. We are now in a financial situation that requires downsizing and getting the city payroll back to a point where it is lean and not loaded with anything unnecessary. This is not a time for frills or nice to have positions. Getting to that point is more of an art than a science and the first attempt may not cut deep enough or may even cut too deep. It may take several rounds of cost cutting to get it right. Regardless, the productivity of those city employees who are lucky enough to retain their jobs is going to have to improve significantly over the what they have grown to expect in terms of a work product over a full work week. Let's also not forget that on the outside chance that cuts are made too deeply we can always add positions back at a later date.

I recall myself and many Napergatians making a big fuss about those 6 bike cops downtown that were put there to be potted plants when the schools were closed. They had to find them work so they made them potted plants at taxpayer expense.

The downtown is just as busy the month before they are assigned to the downtown and just as busy the month after they return to school.

The downtown is orderly with or without these 6 bike cops. The 2 or 3 patrols do an excellent job and these 6 bike cops, sometimes topped with 2 motorcycle cops and a dog cop is the most ridiculous waste of taxpayer money I have ever seen.

All those cops at private charities at a cost of 100k to taxpayers is also a waste of taxpayer money. Hopefully, with less cops these charities will be forced to finally hire private security for one fifth what a Naperville Cop makes without having to pay them unecessary OT. It is ridiculous to be paying Naperville Cops OT when other qualified security personnal are dying to work and make a buck to feed their families in these recessionary times.

I am glad the city is waking up finally....late is better than never...waking up at an 11 million deficit alarm clock is better than waking up at a 50 million deficit alarm clock.

I wonder how much the pension deficit for cops and firemen is now after the collapse of the stock market. Last year it was 53 million. I am willing to guess it is now double that. And yes, the taxpayer will be expected to plug that deficit too. As if we can afford to after losing 40% of our wealth in our 401k's in the last year!

Why should we have Naperville internet cops surfing the world wide web trying to catch internet criminals? It should not be the duty of the Naperville Taxpayer to protect the world wide web from predators. That should be the responsibility of the UN and it members countries including the US Government. They can afford it a little better than the poor Naperville Taxpayer. The other day I read one Naperville Cop got an award for a Wisconsin web arrest and I thought how dumb our city officials are spending our money to arrest a web criminal in Wisconsin. Next we will be arresting the Nigerian Scam Artists in Africa at taxpayer expense.

Maybe next year the 6 school bike cops can be put where they are truly needed such as helping overburdened detectives instead of being potted plants on Chicago Ave, Jackson and Jefferson Streets. If we need some more potted plants in downtown, let us buy some for $19.99 at Frank's Nursery and lay them on the sidewalks. It is much cheaper than paying school cops to do almost nothing while sometimes being paid overtime.

Yes, I believe we made a difference Host Ted, and thanks for extending us the opportunity to speak up and demand some action by our city officials.

Too bad they only react to pressure right before an election.

In the old days they reacted to the Napergate Man's full page ads.

It appears now they are reacting to your bloggers many of whom are Napergatians.

Hopefully your columists one day will bolden up and add additional pressure. Tim West seems to be afraid of a Hummingbird biting him. He needs to get real and put the city under a microscope and dissect the budget and pointing out the excess fat.

Keep up the good work, Host Ted.

We are finally seeing the fruits of your hard labor after nearly 2 years!

Try to be more aggressive with your print edition if you really want to help fix this town once and for all. I believe you do and you are leading us in the right direction. Kudos to you, Host Ted! Get your staff on board now....the ship is leaving the shore soon!

The Police cuts are not enough. They should schedule court time within regular schedules (if they do not need to testify, they can patrol). They should lay off more policemen as well and spread out the beats.

The ratio of police to the crime in this town is way out of proportion. There would not be more crime, just lest harrassment of councilmen that want to reign in their salaries.

There should also be a salary freeze until police salaries are the same as Chicago. And if the police do not agree, then more layoffs to compensate for the overpayment.

NO MORE TAX DOLLARS!!

Host Ted,

I think Another Anonymous laid out a reduction plan for them which I posted on Another Thread. No need to post it again.

They for sure implemented his plan of shipping fire fighters from existing fire stations to fill in Fire Station 10 instead of hiring 12 new fire fighters. Of course they did not give him credit but implemented his great idea!

I definitely feel the city responded to the pressure from the posters especially the Napergatians. Otherwise they would have increased taxes 20% again like last year instead of just 4% or 3 pennies per 100 dollars of equalized assessed valuation from about 74.66 pennies to 77.66 pennies.

Of course this being an electin year, they had to do something to attempt to maintain power in the council.

See my other posts on other threads!

Sorry Naperville Sun, I would not give yourself to much credit on this one. The reductions are happening all over the US not just here in Naperville.

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