Let's not forget that buried somewhere in the vast bowels of city hall are a whole bunch of city employees sitting around typing furiously to fill all of those 500 pages with words every two weeks. Just think how many city employees it must take to do this.

The city council has every ability to stop this nonsense and streamline the process. No one is fooling anyone here. The city council isn't reading the vast majority of the 500 pages. They simply do not have the time and I would suspect the vast majority of them don't even have the interest much less the desire. Most of city staff isn't reading it either nor is the average citizen. So let's stop kidding ourselves and start asking ourselves why in the world we are wasting our resources producing all of these documents that serve no good purpose?

Seems like another example of "we have always done it this way" and no one has the courage to say enough is enough.

Thom Higgins on October 1, 2008 11:05 PM

"City Council Members receive informational packets every two weeks that are routinely 500 pages long. And we aren't talking about a mystery novel here. These are 500 very detailed pages. There is no way anyone can digest and research all of it adequately. If they could focus on a smaller number of issues it would help possibly."

Thom are you suggesting that in a ward system they would vote on laws without first reading the packets?

Anonymous and Sam,

The problem is not going to be solved with wards, at large or the current system.

The problem is everyone complains but only 15% of the citizens bother to vote in Naperville Municipal Local Elections. The minority establishment supporters all go out and vote and thus control the town. It is that simple!

The Napergate Man motivated citizens and got them off their behinds to vote. He got 4 of his edorsees elected against all odds. If he had a little help he could have gotten another council member elected in a prior or subsequent election and could have seriously influenced the town as far as policy. He just worked the system as it was. It is workable! Just needs someone to work it!

In reality, there really is nothing wrong with the current council system. The residents are not participating or voting. That is the real problem! That is where the frustration lies!

Here we have 4 positions on the council open and only 3 candidates(2 running again). No one in Naperville even wants to be a council member that badly at this moment, except for ONE SINGLE NEW CANDIDATE!

Something is absolutely wrong. Newspapers need to educate and inspire the public. The Naperville Sun, despite trying, is obviously unable to motivate or wake up the sleepy residents. The Daily Herald may as well be an INVISIBLE NEWSPAPER! I would not even use it for toilet paper if I was out assuming I could find it!

Someone needs to study the Napergate Man and his methods. His Napergate ads! His grass roots movement! He just had everyone involved on one side or another. But there was involvement....participation in the political process....voters caring!!!

Currently, we have nothing. And it is not because of the break down of the council members regarding ward or at-large. It is because residents, voters and taxpayers are either sleeping or looking for a leader to motivate them.

I say let us try to get people out to vote instead of changing the format of the council. That is guaranteed to work! Changing the format is not guaranteed to succeed.

However, getting the 85% of residents who don't participate to finally vote can make a huge difference in the policy decisions of this town.

Plus we need some candidates. I would love to see either of you or both of you run for council. I plan on running as soon as I retire. I am actually looking forward to it. I just can't run now since I feel I would short change the residents due to my time constraints which include working downtown Chicago!

Response to: By Anonymous on October 5, 2008 11:44 AM
“Bubo,
1.
The point you don't understand with "at-large" representation is that to make my point I have to schedule 8 meetings with 8 different city council members and that is true for all 150,000 residents.
At the same time each of the 8 "at-large" representatives have to be up to speed with the needs, wishes, desires, etc of all 150,000 residents. Arguably an enormous task.
With a ward system a resident would only need to contact either one or two ward alderman and each ward would represent about 8,700 residents. That sure as heck moves government a whole lot closer to the people they represent and who elected them.”
Response: What if you and the ward boss don’t get along or you don’t know how to “coax” sidewalk repairs out of them? It does not take more than 15 minutes to drive across Naperville in any direction. The existing city councilmen can get out to look at anything they want whenever they want. If you can convince one on the phone they can always bring two or three to meet with you when you show up. I know this to be true. Again, you can always suck it up and get in front of all of them at once at the beginning of any city council meeting. Bring your facts.
2.
"Naperville, like many local governments, wants development which grows the tax base and creates jobs." Depends upon who you define as "Naperville". Is that what the citizens, the residents, the voters want? Or is that what the bureaucrats in city hall want? Do the city council members answer to the citizens, the residents, the voters? Or do they answer to the developers or to city hall?
Is the dog wagging the tail or vice versa? Right now our entire city government is on a circular treadmill. All of the development has fostered a huge bureaucracy that is totally dependent upon a constant stream of tax dollars. Look at how many bean counters we have on the city hall payroll alone to keep track of all the tax dollars from each and every city tax.
Response: The Developers have had a lot (disproportionate) of say in the past and present; their influence should be equivalent to their contribution which is in decline. Green fields are almost gone. The Downtown needs to get off the dole and start to carry their own weight. I don’t have the org chart for City Hall, so I can’t comment on if it is top heavy or over staffed.

3.
In all these years we have failed to create a city government that is independent or immune from a constant tax revenue stream. This all looked great in the good times with no end in sight for how much could be collected or what anyone was willing to pay. We have failed to create a government that is able to weather a recession. With a downfall in the economy like we are facing our entire municipal government will soon be in serious trouble. All of the car dealerships along Ogden Avenue are hurting and they feed millions of tax dollars into the city coffers. Current economic projections is that at least 1 on 5 car dealerships will go under within a year. That means big trouble for the city finance department.
Response: Agree, the City will need a significant belt tightening for what may be a significant downturn. The fun times at City Council Meetings are over, maybe for a long time. Don’t be surprised if more City Councilmen bail out.

4
Already some residents are starting to rumble and mumble and grumble about how much they are paying in taxes. For what is supposed to be the heart of Republican territory our city government has long been taxing and spending like a bunch of drunken Democrats at an all expense paid convention. With home rule authority we will soon be facing 30% or more increases on our real estate taxes or the city will be laying of hundreds of city workers. There is no middle ground when the city government operates without adequate reserves to buffer difficult times and ramps up the overall cost of government to equal the tax revenue stream. Interrupt the tax revenue stream and you have the recipe for a disaster.
Response: The school taxes are killing the residents; our major employers are bailing out of Naperville.

5.
"Most of the time the City council gets it right." Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately, every time the city council doesn't get it right, and you admit that they don't, it is the citizens, the residents, the voters who end up paying the price for their mistakes.
Response: Agree:
• Make the downtown pay their own way. The Bars throw off plenty of revenue.
• As has been pointed out the downtown employees can park at Centennial Beach 9 months a year and could ride a mini bus circulators to several remote parking areas. If I recall correctly, there are 2-3000 people that work in the downtown. AT 40K per space that is a lot of savings if we use existing spaces.
• Fix the pensions to something the City can actually deliver.
• Ask our major employers why they are bailing out of Naperville (hint taxes on their employees)?
• Make the charity fundraisers pay their own way.
• Bell tower is a financial fiasco.
• Implement salary freezes for the City, Park District and School system employees. Top 1 to 3 levels of management could take a 10% pay cut vs. lay offs. I’m guessing that most employees would rather have a freeze compared to no job in what may be a severe recession. When the Feds are through saving the day it may be turned into a depression.
• Review starting salaries for the NPD, City and Fire Dept. Paying a premium for good people is worth it, paying more than the City will be able to deliver in the future is foolhardy.
• Cap teacher salaries at something like $80 to 85K for 8 months of work a year plus a great pension and retirement plans. If teachers want to leave to try to get more in the private sector, have at it. If it means a melt down strike where the kids stay home, I would prefer it to paying extortion from the abusive teachers union and duplicitous administrations.
• I don’t have all the all the raw numbers, so this is math with a crayon.

"It is naive to think that any change in representation will be allowed if it upsets the power structure in this city."

Sam, the best part of a city-wide citizen referendum is that the power structure can be upset as much as WE want it to be upset and the movers and shaker are POWERLESS to do anything about it, much less stop it! Despite money, power, influence, or even mouth every person only has one vote and majority still decides.

Today we have 8 council members. With wards we could have anywhere from 16 to 20 alderman. Other cities who have some "at large" alderman only have a very few compared to the total number of alderman. None have an equal split. None still have a majority elected "at large". The "at large" becomes a much smaller minority.

Increasing from 8 members to 16-20 members diminishes the control or influence any individual alderman would have while significantly increasing accessibility and accountability to the citizens in each ward. Any so-called movers and shakers would only have as much power or control as the other 15-19 alderman are willing to give them. If they are all doing their jobs relatively equally there wouldn't be any one person dominating. Fact is the design of our government was for equal representation and there never was an intent to permit the kind of power some of our American political dictators have been allowed to acquire.

If we never try a system of wards and alderman we will never know if it will work better and deliver what it is intended. Referendums can go both ways. If we try wards and they fail there is nothing from stopping us from holding another referendum to change it back to "at large" council members.

Better to try and fail the fail to try! I say let's give wards a chance.

Be careful what you wish for. Naperville has grown into a big city, but, in many respects, it is run like a small town. In the twenty years I've been here, my honest opinion is that the city caters to the downtown merchants and the developers. The taxpayers simply foot the bill. ( As an example, I'll ask again, how much tax revenue will be generated from the investment of $40 million in parking decks? No councilman has ever answered my request. In my opinion there will not be nearly enough to justify the expenditure. Instead, the answer is that we need a "vibrant downtown" --regardless of the amount of taxpayer subsidy required.)

It is naive to think that any change in representation will be allowed if it upsets the power structure in this city. At best, I expect we will have a mix of wards and "at large" representation, but the "at large" contingent will be big enough to make the rules. The entrenched movers and shakers will have at least as much control than they do today.

Keep it as is. Make every council member accountable to all the taxpayers.

Bubo,

The point you don't understand with "at-large" representation is that to make my point I have to schedule 8 meetings with 8 different city council members and that is true for all 150,000 residents.

At the same time each of the 8 "at-large" representatives have to be up to speed with the needs, wishes, desires, etc of all 150,000 residents. Arguably an enormous task.

With a ward system a resident would only need to contact either one or two ward alderman and each ward would represent about 8,700 residents. That sure as heck moves government a whole lot closer to the people they represent and who elected them.

"Naperville, like many local governments, wants development which grows the tax base and creates jobs." Depends upon who you define as "Naperville". Is that what the citizens, the residents, the voters want? Or is that what the bureaucrats in city hall want? Do the city council members answer to the citizens, the residents, the voters? Or do they answer to the developers or to city hall?

Is the dog wagging the tail or vice versa? Right now our entire city government is on a circular treadmill. All of the development has fostered a huge bureaucracy that is totally dependent upon a constant stream of tax dollars. Look at how many bean counters we have on the city hall payroll alone to keep track of all the tax dollars from each and every city tax.

In all these years we have failed to create a city government that is independent or immune from a constant tax revenue stream. This all looked great in the good times with no end in sight for how much could be collected or what anyone was willing to pay. We have failed to create a government that is able to weather a recession. With a downfall in the economy like we are facing our entire municipal government will soon be in serious trouble. All of the car dealerships along Ogden Avenue are hurting and they feed millions of tax dollars into the city coffers. Current economic projections is that at least 1 on 5 car dealerships will go under within a year. That means big trouble for the city finance department.

Already some residents are starting to rumble and mumble and grumble about how much they are paying in taxes. For what is supposed to be the heart of Republican territory our city government has long been taxing and spending like a bunch of drunken Democrats at an all expense paid convention. With home rule authority we will soon be facing 30% or more increases on our real estate taxes or the city will be laying of hundreds of city workers. There is no middle ground when the city government operates without adequate reserves to buffer difficult times and ramps up the overall cost of government to equal the tax revenue stream. Interrupt the tax revenue stream and you have the recipe for a disaster.

"Most of the time the City council gets it right." Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately, every time the city council doesn't get it right, and you admit that they don't, it is the citizens, the residents, the voters who end up paying the price for their mistakes.

By Anonymous on October 2, 2008 11:38 AM
"The current governance structure of the city council leaves the citizens of Naperville under-represented when compared with other neighboring cities and cities with a similar population."

Anonymous,

How can you be under-represented if you can pick up the phone and make an appointment to meet with any of the council members or the mayor; either on the same or a day or two later? Or show up at the City Council meeting and have your three minutes of fame before the agenda starts?

Naperville, like many local governments, wants development which grows the tax base and creates jobs.

These are desirable goals, sometimes the balance between the residents and the developers (c0mmercial interests) is lost; unfortunately this is part of running a City. Most of the time the City council gets it right.

Bubo

BA, thank you for your comments. The biggest problem in municipal elections and other local elections is voter turnout. I do not have accurate data, but about 15 per cent of registered voters vote in municipal elections.

It is difficult to elect individuals with differing view points. If you think wards or districts can solve this, then it may be worth a try to change our current system.

It is my opinion most all candidates come in a homogenized blend. Elected officials almost always listen to staff and community leaders. Taxes always increase. Etc. Etc.

Anonymous,
I do not know if ward compared to at large will make a big difference. I also prefer ward by the way! I agree with your arguments.

I think the real problem is the residents are not interested or engaged in local politics. The last I checked we have one new person running for city council. No one else seems interested. The town is asleep.

Someone needs to wake this town up. In the Napergate Days the Napergate Man woke this town up and got them heavily involved during election time. There was deep participation. There would be 12 candidates fighting for 4 positions. There would be an election preceding the final election to narrow the field down to 8. It was an amazing time.

It is hard to believe one person could wake a sleepy town and get it involved in politics to that extent. It is hard for me to understand how and why the residents went back to sleep.

There has to be a way to wake this town up again. I am not sure what it is. We not only lost those old Napergate ads but we lost the old and powerful Naperville Sun. The Naperville Sun is so light these days you can carry it between 2 fingers. In the old days preceding elections, you needed a full hand to carry it. It would be loaded with political ads.

Anyway, Anonymous do you have any idea how we can wake the residents up and get them to participate in local government again?

How about you Host Ted? Do you have any ideas or can you shed some light as why the majority of our town is asleep?

City Council size is not fine, not even close to fine. Ward politics is one of the bedrocks of American politics. At-large representation is, at best, a watered down form of representation that gives more access to those who can afford to run a city-wide campaign as opposed to a low cost ward election. Plus with ward politics we would be electing people from our own neighborhoods, people who would be more accountable to their immediate community. With ward politics there would be greater chance you would know your alderman. Who of us personally know how many of our council members? Do any of the council members actually live in your neighborhood?

The "at-large" council members themselves admit that they are out of touch with the average person. They admit that it if it wasn't for the Naperville area homeowners association they would have very little feedback from citizens. If the Naperville area homeowners association is the only method our council members are using to keep their pulse on what is going on around Naperville we are in serious trouble and headed for worse.

I can't speak for how other homeowner associations operate. I do know that the association in my neighborhood only represents about 50% of the homeowners, so those who aren't members don't seem to be getting any input. I also know that our homeowners association has an officer who attends city council meetings and the Naperville area homeowner association meetings. What this person says on our behalf is anyones guess. I do know that our homeowners association does not have meetings that discuss and take positions on community issues nor does our homeowners association take surveys or otherwise collect input from residents on how they feel about certain issues around town. Personally, I have always thought that the Naperville area homeowners association had great potential to be a collective voice for a great number of residents and especially those who care enough to join their homeowner association and become involved. However, after watching our own homeowner association for over 20 years it is clear to me that, in the example our our association, that any input being given is personal opinion of one person and not the shared view of our entire association. Possibly other homeowner associations operate differently, though I seriously doubt it from what I have heard from friends and relatives who live in other parts of town.

BTW, state law requires elections for half the members every two years so that isn't even up for discussion.

City Council size is just fine. Elections should be held every four years, instead of every two years. Property taxes will increase and elected officials will continue in the same manner no matter if we have wards, a combination of districts and elected at large or the current system.

The Naperville Sun would be well advised to help educate readers and voters by publishing an article with some maps that graphically illustrate where city council members who have served for the last 10-20 years have resided.

True, some of the present day parts of town didn't even exist just a few years ago. From a trend standpoint there are clearly certain areas of town that have been over-represented during this entire period, as well as other areas that have been under-represented.

For somewhat of a comparison, here is what other neighboring and cities with a similar population as Naperville are doing with their local government structure:

Aurora; pop. 175,952; Mayor and 10 ward aldermen plus 2 at large; 13,500 citizens per elected representative.
Bolingbrook; pop. 69,662; Mayor and 6 trustees; 10,000 citizens per elected representative.
Joliet; pop. 145,800; Mayor plus 5 council districts and 3 at large; 16,200 per elected representative.
Lisle; pop. 21,128, Mayor plus 6 trustees; 3,000 citizens per elected representative.
Naperville; pop. 147,779; Mayor and 8 trustees; 16,400 citizens per elected representative.
Plainfield; pop. 37,334; Mayor and 6 trustees; 5,300 citizens per elected representative.
Rockford; pop. 155,138; Mayor and 14 alderman; 10,300 citizens per elected representative.
Romeoville; pop. 36,837; Mayor and 6 trustees; 5,300 citizens per elected representative.
Springfield; pop. 116,482; Mayor and 10 alderman; 10,600 citizens per elected representative.
Warrenville; pop. 13,363; Mayor and 8 alderman (2 per ward); 1,500 citizens per elected representative.
Wheaton; pop. 55,416; Mayor and 4 council districts plus 2 at large; 7,900 citizens per elected representative.
Woodridge; pop. 30,934; Mayor and 6 trustees, 4,400 citizens per elected representative.

Looking just at the ration of citizens per elected representative we range from a high in Naperville at 16,400 to a low in Warrenville at 1,500 which is an enormous difference in how well each citizen is represented. The average representation of our neighboring cities and other similar sized cities in Illinois is about 8,700 citizen per elected representative or approximately one-half of what exists in Naperville. By any measure the average citizen in Naperville is not only under-represented, but under-represented by a wide margin.

Under an alderman form of government, Illinois state law would set the maximum number of alderman in Naperville at 20 due to our current census. With 20 alderman plus a Mayor the number of citizens represented by each elected official would drop from our present high of 16,400 to about 7,000. Illinois law does allow flexibility to have some alderman elected at large as well as either one or two alderman per ward, which explains Aurora's structure of 12 alderman yet having a larger population. However, for Naperville to come even reasonably close to the average representation of 8,700 citizens per elected official would require at least 16 alderman plus a Mayor or a city council exactly twice its current size!

The current governance structure of the city council leaves the citizens of Naperville under-represented when compared with other neighboring cities and cities with a similar population. The most vexing problem facing voters on any referendum questions to change our existing structure is that Illinois state law restricts at-large representation, in a managerial form of municipal government, to a maximum of 8 trustees in cities with a population between 100,000 and 500,000.

Clearly our only option to improve (lower) the ratio of citizens to elected representative is to convert to an aldermanic form of government. This will require considerable thought and debate to decide how many wards are needed, whether to have one or two aldermen from each ward, and whether or not any "at-large" alderman should be included.

Clearly we are beyond the question.

Yes, they must live in teh District they would represent.

From the standpoint of having at least one Council Member knows intimately what is happening in your neighborhood I think the idea has merit.

City Council Members receive informational packets every two weeks that are routinely 500 pages long. And we aren't talking about a mystery novel here. These are 500 very detailed pages. There is no way anyone can digest and research all of it adequately. If they could focus on a smaller number of issues it would help possibly.

Frankly, at 140 some thousand residents, I think we have outgrown our "part time" council structure. There are just too many difficult and complex issues for them to address effectively.

The number of districts in a managerial form of government is set by Article 5 of the Illinois Municipal Code.

Lets see:

We go from 3 to 9 libraries

We already have 10 firehouses, but may have to move one or two.

Will we have funny shape districts so we can have racially defined districts, perhaps a special district for a religious minority etc?

Will the ward alderman be required to live in their districts, or will they all live in the high end one?

Sounds like Chicago