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City names Doug Krieger as new city manager

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After several months and a nationwide search, the city of Naperville on Friday announced that Finance Director Doug Krieger was picked as the next city manager, replacing Peter Burchard, who left his post in mid-December of 2007.

Other local officials seeking the position included City Manager Pro Tem Bob Marshall, who will now return to his assistant city manager position, and Management Services Director Don Carlsen.

What do you think of the selection of Krieger for the post? Are you surprised the city didn't pick Marshall, who had filled the role since Burchard's departure? Do you think the nationwide search was necessary to find a candidate who already worked for the city?

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80 Comments

I'm pleased to see a new leader at the helm. I have only had to deal directly with the city on two occasions, both of which occurred under Pro Tem Marshall. I was shocked by the unprofessional and hostile attitudes of some of the city employees. As a Sunday School teacher, I've been told that I have the patience of Job, but they were quite trying, even for me. Either the Pro Tem and/or Clerk don't know how to manage a staff, or their ineptness is putting a damper on the morale of the entire group. That is unfortunate. I would be willing to volunteer there a few days per week to help reduce expenses, but after dealing with some of the staff I would be a bit hesitant at this time.

I wish City Manager Krieger well and I hope he'll "shake things up" a bit and trim the excess fat around the office. In this economy I doubt that he'll have trouble replacing the sour pusses with hard-working, cordial individuals, and I bet he could find a few volunteers like myself to help, too.

Marcus Aurelious,

I think what Irene was trying to say is that since we can levy much higher taxes we have the ability to offer our fire fighters larger matching contributions.

It is not a direct correlation but an indirect one.

We levied tax increases of 20% in the past and gave our firemen 21.16% matching contributions. Non home rule towns most probably don't have that kind of money for matching contributions since they are limited to 5% tax increases.

This year under much pressure the city of Naperville only increased taxes 9.68%. It is doubtful they can maintain the 21.16% contribution rate since less taxes were collected and the matching contributions come from levied taxes.

With less matching contributions, the pension fund will get worse.

I think what the Napergatians are saying is the inflow into the funds is much less than the outflow. The only way it can be corrected is for the inflow to match the outflow. For that to happen both salaries and pension pay-outs have to be reduced.

Only the state can reduce the pension pay-out ratio. Until that happens the city is going to have to do what it can to reduce salaries which will in turn reduce pension pay-outs and possibly bring our pension system back to solvency one day.

Being in the hole $61.4 millon dollars just for our police and fire fighters is really a huge obstacle to overcome. Letting it get worse any year is something that should not be tolerated.

This year even after a warning from the state to begin balancing the pension fund by the year 2033, our union city employees who sit on the respective boards and the pension fund managers who advise them allowed it to get worse by 9.7 million dollars. If Oct and Nov stock market losses were included in the numbers, they may have been substantially worse. I think the fiscal year ended Aug 31 or Sept 30 so we really have not seen the true and full damage to the pension funds. We will have to wait till next year to assess how bad the pension managers, union employees and stock maket damaged the p @ f pension funds.

What makes Napervillians, Napergatians and all taxpayers very angry is they are responsible for making up this shortfall that was created by mismanagement of the state, city and of course the respective depts.

When our 401k retirement money decreases, we just get less when we retire. When the police and fire fighter pensions decrease due to incompetence or economic conditions, they do not get a penny less. They come to the taxpayers for all their losses. That just seems unfair and I think that is what most bloggers including the Napergatians are complaining about!

Irene,

Time for a fact check.

You are correct, other, i.e. non home rule communities, are limited to a 5% tax hike, as a rule depending on inflation. HOWEVER, this has nothing to do with the 21.6% number. That is the percentage of salary that the city must pay into the pension. We can debate if that is an appropriate amount, but don't blame the city on this one. The numbers are set by the state.

Many cities do have seperate police and fire pensions, HOWEVER, all other municipal employees are lumped together in the Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund. It may be, that that fund is doing better because as a large fund it has more clout in Springfield to press funding issues. I don't know that for a fact, but it makes me wonder.

When looking at the pension shortfall, please remember two facts that seem to have gotten lost. First, the shortfall has been around for a lot of years, it was caused in part by the rapid increase in the number of fire and police employees over the last 20 years as the city grew and the demand for city services increased. Since an employee becomes a liability to the fund from the day they are hired, but haven't paid in nearly anythiing yet you will have a defecit, especially when you triple the number of employees in a short time. Secondly, the city could have paid in earlier to bring any of the pensions up to 100% funding, but chose not to. It may have been a good decision based on other things the money was used for, or it might have been a bad decision based on now paying interest on top of interest to meet the shortfall. And finally, you are correct that the funds did not earn as much as projected. That doesn't necessarily mean they were mismanaged, just that earnings did not meet expectations.

It just seems Anon #3 is having a hard time dealing with the facts and truth.

If you can't debate, out is the proper solution.

I don't see what Irene did wrong other than provide facts and truth obtained from Councilmembers!

It is really hard to debate if you first don't read and educate yourself on an issue. One can see that the Napergatians do spend time educating themselves.

Maybe thye are getting an education on their Napergate Network before they come to blog and convert others to their cause.

I sense they are succeeding in converting others to their cause gradually but surely.

Good luck in your future endeavors, Anon #3.

"It is partially a state issue and partially a city issue."
"Again, this $51.7 million deficit is strictly a city issue and not a state issue."
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You know what Irene. I quit. I can't debate like this. I think the more often the napergate types debate like this, the greater the numbers are going to decline on this blog. It's too bad, there is potential here.

Anon #3 out.

Anon #3,

It is partially a state issue and partially a city issue. Each city controls its own pension fund. Most towns have understandable problems because they are under state rule and are limited to levying 5% tax increases. As we know from CM Bob we have levied 21.16% to help our fire fighters unlike other towns who can only levy 5% to help their fire fighters. City of Naperville exempted themselves from state rule and adopted home rule. We took more responsibility for ourselves than state rule towns. We can not blame the state after we switched to home rule voluntarily....no one twisted our arms.

When pension fund managers lose the money in the pensions, this is really a local problem and not a state problem as these funds are managed locally and specific to each dept. be it the police dept or fire dept.

The state requires a 75% distribution. Higher salaries cause this distribution to be higher. Lower salaries cause this distribution to be lower. The city controls salaries not the state.

Again, this $51.7 million deficit is strictly a city issue and not a state issue. Each city has its own pension fund for city employees. It is not like the school system where it is one big state pension fund system.

I think the Napergatians know what they are talking about and people like you Anon #3 are misinformed when you say this is purely a state issue.

CM Bob suggested our police and fire pension fund managers get some better training. He was not talking state. He was talking city. Why don't you give him a call and get some education before you blab against the Napergatians as if you knew what you were talking about.

Anon #3,

I think you will find that those who whine the loudest are trying to live a champagne lifestyle on a Boone's Farm budget. They skated by for years on credit, but now that it is time to pay the piper, they came up short, and in typical fashion are blaming the City for their shortcomings. I do believe the majority of residents are grateful for the fine job the city does providing us with 1st class police, fire and other city services.

If $51.7 includes pensions, this is a state issue, other bloggers have tried to point this out, but napergations seem to not care or ignore that fact. Someone posted this link on one of the other blogs and it has good information in it. http://www.iml.org/dbs/pension/

You can not mask the city problems behind the current bad economy, Anon #3. The 51.7 million deficit was accumulated before the economy collapsed. Only an additional 9.7 million was accumulated after the economy collapsed. The facts are the facts!!!

The Napergatians are unfortunately telling us the TRUTH!

I do believe that you are giving yourselves too much credit.

For the past 7 years, the economy has been pretty good, the city was running along just fine. The economy stinks now FOR THE WHOLE WORLD, not just the City of Naperville. Where have you people been for the past 7 years? Seems to me that in the past 7 years, things were chucking along swimmingly and none of you took the time to complain about how "terrible" the city is; too busy livin it up with the rest of the world; sipping mimosas and getting $100 pedicures; buying mcmansions on an interest only loan; buying a hummer or 2; I could go on, you get the picture.

Then, the economy starts to tumble, a little at a time, gas is increasing, housing market is slowing down, people can't pay that upside down mortage and then BAM! We are here today in this current situation, the stuff hit the fan and who are you going to blame? Not yourselves of course, not Wall Street, not G. W. Bush who helped foster some of the stuff going on now, no, let's blame City Hall and what the hell, let's resurrect NaperGate. How about we get back to that pesky lawsuit that's costing taxpayers a pretty penny?

The state of the economy, not Napergations, not establishment are helping to make the changes seen in Naperville and the REST OF THE WORLD.

By Anon #3 on November 29, 2008 6:36 PM
Todd, I agree with the other anon. People at City Hall are working and probably don't have time to blog. Kudos to them for not wasting tax payers money on blogging. Blogging doesn't solve problems, actions solve problems.

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I do agree that blogging does not solve problems. But inaction does not solve problems either. For 7 years since the Napergate ads ended. we have had no check on government and tons of inaction leading us to the mess we are in.

I do believe that city officials do read these blogs as they read the Napergate Ads. Anyone knows that these blogs do not have the power of the 22,000 circulation the Napergate ads once had, but this is the hand that is dealt to us for the time being unless someone wants to cough up big bucks and resume the Napergate Series.

City officials do react to taxpayers. If taxpayers do not complain city officials continue in their wasteful ways. The reason is many times these wasteful ways bring benefits to city officials and employees.

For example which employee would rather not be driving a new truck than one with 53,000 miles on it. The Napergatians/Napervillians complained on this blog site and the city decided to hold on to these trucks for much longer. Call it a conincidence if you want but the result is good.

The Napergatians asked that the new fire station be staffed from the old fire stations. The city responded and agreed. Call it a conincidence if you want but the result is good.

The Napergatians demanded police OT be reduced right on this blog site. The City Council followed through with a similar demand. Call it a coincidence if you will but the result is good.

The bottom line is any council member who wishes to remain in office must respond to his constituents. The bloggers on this site are constituents which translates to voters. The council members know and are responding.

As it becomes a more established site, it will hopefully become as powerful as those Napergate Ads and this blog site will make a big difference and play a great watch dog role in our city! Let us hope so or we will end up in bankruptcy court the way our city officials have spent our hard earned tax dollars.

Mr. Marshall should apply for a job elsewhere where he does not have connections. Let us see if he can get a job in another city managing the entire city without any prior experience in that field. I doubt he can!

That could be the bigger issue bringing the resentment of the double dipping!

Pensions should not be paid out till one hits 65 or can no longer work. Not when he is at the top of his health and working capabilities.

I am glad Mr. Marsahll did not get the promotion. Look at the state of the city and its deficits....as miserable as can be!

Todd, I agree with the other anon. People at City Hall are working and probably don't have time to blog. Kudos to them for not wasting tax payers money on blogging. Blogging doesn't solve problems, actions solve problems.

I don't understand all the whining about the double-dipping. Last time I checked Marshall worked 30-some years as a cop and earned that pension (not regular salary, pension). If he hadn't taken the ACM or CMPT positions here, they would have hired/promoted someone else for the same pay. 1+1=2, right? So what's the big deal. Are you jealous he's making that much to run the city? Why don't you guys worry about the guy who just got promoted for his screw-ups?

Peggie and Victor, I am the "anonymous" that you responded to about the city not reacting to the housing decline. I was out of state helping one of my children through a medical emergency and occasionally forgot to enter my name.

Peggie, just how do you think budgets are set if not by the expected taxes from residences and businesses? Cities do not have investments that pay their budgets, they have taxpayers. Pension funds are paid through investments and subject to the market's problems; city budgets are subject to bad projections on incoming revenue.

Victor, I agree that city officials have been stupid and building budgets that are out of control. That's why I noted that the problems started in the late 90's as the city started its out of control spending. Because times were good, no one complained, and many actually wanted more. Now that times are bad, people are crying about spilt milk, locking the barn door after the horse is out, or any other old adage you want to use that makes it clear that it is too late.

Todd,
Why would anyone debate the six people that make up the Napergate nation? It's too easy for them to hide behind the blogs and not actually provide solutions! Perhaps the Napergate nation should pick up the phone and get a meeting or two with there elected leaders. Oh, wait! That couldn't happen because then the wouldn't be able to hide behind the blogs!! Instead of getting envolved they blast what others are doing. Most people read these blogs to see what whacky, thoughtless, uninformed, destructive type stuff they come up with!! You would think by what they say they couldn't wait to get out of Naperville! The Sun could have had a great thing here with these blogs but they have let the crazies run with it. Most of the posts here have no factual basis and are strictly providing entertainment for the rest of Naperville to read. If you want more transparency in politics spine up and do something about it!!

I agree with McFarland that the city of Naperville needs to be more transparent.

His arguments make sense based on the little transparency we have coming from only one CM that being Bob who appears to be working very hard for the taxpayers.

It is amazing how little of what the Napergatians are providing on this blog site here is being refuted by anyone.

If city officials can't refute the Napergatians or debate them, of course in due time, the public will eventually believe everything they are stating is factual.

What is frightening is the city and its supporters may be unwilling to debate the Napergatians, because what they are saying is in fact true, and the city simply does not want to confirm it! No one wants to confirm bad news! But their silence is deafening and this may be the best indication they are confirming the bad news being put out by the Napergatians and CM Bob. It would be nice if CM Furstenau would join the debate. He is suppose to be the Encyclopedia of Bad News in City Hall!

By John Q. Public on November 26, 2008 3:59 PM

Vanessa,

I think we can be reasonably certain that the increase in the unfunded amount this year is due almost entirely to the downturn in the financial markets.

-JQP


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With all due respect, it is hard to rationalize what you are saying, John! Before this year we had a bull market that lasted from 2002 till almost the end of 2007. The Dow almost doubled from 7,200 to 14,200. And yet the police and fire fighters had a combined pension deficit that exceeded $51.5 million last year or some number like that which my fellow Napergatians have been using supposedly obtained from data provided by CM Bob recently. I have not been able to independently verify but most Napergatians do have credibility when it comes to posting accurate numbers to the best of my knowledge.

If it is the stock market that caused this hugely underfunded pension deficit, why did the pension deficit also increase drastically, albeit not quite as much, during during the 5.5 years of the bull run in the stock market.

However, I feel that the loss may have gotten exponentially worse this last year because of the stock market. Maybe we would have only had a 5 million dollar pension deficit instead of the 9.7 million dollar current deficit if the market did not take a nose dive. But the pensions would have still taken a beating regardless of whether the market went up or down!

Keep in mind most of the losses in the market took place in the last 2 months. This 9.7 million dollars may or may not include those huge losses depending on the fiscal year closing date of these pension funds.

I really believe that the very large pension deficit is mostly caused because inflows from taxpayers and public safety employees are far less than the outflows required by the union and state demands.

And just for the record, no one can expect the taxpayers to continue their very generous contribution which was 21.16% for matching funds last year.

I guess we will have to await CM Bob again to see if this contribution has increased or decreased. It does not appear he needs FOI Requests to get us all this information we as taxpayers are not able to obtain so easily.

It would be nice if the City of Naperville stopped playing games and followed in the footsteps of Governor Sarah Palin and posted all this information on the web for all of us to see and diagnose. I think the issue of lack of transparency is one reason why establishment candidates will most probably not be re-elected next year.

Congrats to Doug Krieger! Seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

As for the pension mess, and it is a mess, blame it on the mopes in Springfield! The pensions are a mandate passed down from Springfield. The city council has no say in how it is managed or what tax rate needs to be collected. The pension system is governed under state law so take up the issue with Blago, Madigian, and the pinheads that run Springfield. Cities around the state have tried to not collect it in the past as a form of civil disobediance and were sued by the state, who won. This is a bigger problem for other towns who it will bankrupt within 10 years!

Councilman Bob seems to be giving the data to the problem but has failed in pointing out who holds the bag for this mess. It's not the city council, city manager or the fire chief, it's the union controled Democrats in Springfield.

Original Joe,

Thanks for that well thought out post. I am a Napergatian and just want to say I agree for the most part with your post.

However, I still think we need to consider bankrupty as this pension deficit of $61.4 million CM Bob is reporting may not be attainable by giving more tickets and fines for traffic law breakers. Cop robotic cameras work for a while and do generate revenues. Once people realize they are there, they obey them and revenues decline drastically.

Bankruptcy allows us to start over again. It allows us to tell the unions based on the new realities we can only pay you 50% instead of 75%. I am not sure if this is about promises. It is really about negotiations and being fair. The unions were tough and we succumbed to them. They have to understand we tried to meet their demands but they have proven impossible.

I don't see the crime in reducing pensions when they are unaffordable. In the private sector, they were not reduced....they were totally eliminated from almost every major corporation.

Yes, the UAW is hanging on, but I think the handwriting is on the wall there. It is understood the car companies will most probably get there very last bail-out from the US government at my expense and yours, Original Joe. I think after that the government has told the auto makers never to dare come back again...justifiably! Thus when the money runs out as expected, GM, Ford and Chryler have no choice but to bust the unions and bust upper management and their massive bonuses. At least GM began selling their private jets...that is a step in the right direction and will save 22,000 per flight. That really is chump change compared to what they can save if they bust the unions who demand 95% pay when plants are idling.

Anyway Original Joe, I just want to wish you a very Happy Thanksgiving. A Happy Thanksgiving to everyone else bloggin and of course to our new Sun Edtitors running this blog site. And of course to Host Ted who started this wonderful blog site!

Putting any pension 'in the market' and subsequently 'counting on' a rate of return is nothing short of stupid. Worse is when that money could be subject to devaluation; which seems to be the case here. This is why I said we have to freeze the problem as it exists today and stop adding any more people to it. Shame on us for allowing it to be set up that way but that is our obligation to fulfill. Halt/freeze, find a way to honor what we as a city said we would do. But be smart and stop making the problem worse. I still like the idea that we should beef up enforcement of habitually broken laws and divert those specific fines to the pension deficit to help the burden on the taxpayer.

I know many here think we should bankrupt our way out of it and use the justification that they have had their retirements reneged upon. I'm sorry but I do not follow the thought process that just because someone may have screwed me over that it makes it OK that I screw someone else over. It's easy to spread the hurt but it takes honor and integrity to not perpetuate it. These are qualities I keep hearing being brought up about someone from the past who 'ran a slate of candidates' and 'fought city hall'. We need to live up to those qualities with our OBLIGATIONS that we are already on the hook for; but we can stop the problem from growing and we should.

JQP,

You may be right. A city insider posted on another thread a few moments ago and he seems to agree with you.

I think even though this is part of it, there are more components to this mess.

One being that even in good times the contributions made by both the taxpayers and P and F officers into the pension fund are simply not enough to sustain 75% retirement pensions at very young ages.

Let me ask you, JQP, if this is fully the case how come the Municipal Pension Fund(IMRF) for non-public safety employees did not have any trouble and was fully funded despite the stock market declines. See CM Bob's post late last night on this thread to confirm.

Another point I would like to make, is that I doubt that the numbers being posted by CM Bob include the downturn in stocks in Oct. and Nov. of this year. I think their fiscal year ends Sept 30, but I am not 100% sure. Do you know, JQP!

If they don't include Oct. @ Nov. and you are right that we are talking about stock market losses, these pension funds could have easily had a 15-20 million additional deficit this calender year instead of only the fiscal year $9.7 million deficit being reported by CM Bob. Regardless that is a huge figure, that cost each household nearly 200 bucks just for this year if the fiscal year ended Sept. 30. More like 300-400 bucks per household if we are talking about a calender year. Something most taxpayers can ill afford in these rough economic times.

Next years fiscal pension deficit may reflect what happened the last 2 months, which means there may be another disaster looming for next year.

Anyway, don't forget to read that City Insider post and let me know your thoughts, JQP.

Vanessa wrote:

"It is sickening to read your reports and find out that our P and F pension deficit funds increased almost 10 million in only one year. How could that be so, Councilman Bob? What is causing it? How can we solve this problem that we have been mandated to solve by the year 2033."

Vanessa,

I think we can be reasonably certain that the increase in the unfunded amount this year is due almost entirely to the downturn in the financial markets.

-JQP

Councilman Bob,

I thank you for the post. This whole pension system is a serious joke. Here is why I say so?

They pay these fund managers to manage their pensions. But for what! If they make money or lose money, it really does not matter. They are taking no risk and there is no pressure on them to perform.

A police officer or fire fighter is guaranteed to get his 75% pension after 30 years and as early as age 51 regardless of the performance of the pension fund. We all know that! His pay-out is in no way tied to the performance of these funds. He collects regardless of how these pension managers perform. So why are we paying these pension managers. How much are we paying them? Why not save money! Why not tie these pension funds to indexes which have historically performed better than any pension manager and save the money to help pay the cops and firemen with the savings instead of taxpayer additional funds. They have been proven to be failures anyway as they have not been able to reduce the taxpayer burden from their terrible investments whatever they may be. They even had us in a hole last year when all the indexes in the stock market were setting record new highs except for the Nasdaq of course.

Basically these pension managers are useless. They have no purpose or motivation to perform. They know the taxpayers will have to pay the police and firefighters in full even if they lose all the money in their investments. It sounds like these unions representing the police and firemen have been a diservice to all parties including the taxpayers.

Councilman Bob,

Nice post! Hopefully those managing these P and F pensions will follow the good example of the IMRF managers.

The police and fire fighters should demand accountability from their fund managers. Why have they not fired them? Why do they expect us taxpayers to bail them out!

By Councilman Bob on November 25, 2008 11:30 PM
To Blake 11/25 @ 7:08 PM:

On your question about the pension deficit in the Municipal Fund, I believe what you had in mind is the pension fund that benefits the municipal employees other than policemen and firefighters. That fund is the Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund (IMRF), which I understand is 100% funded (no deficit). IMHO, the underfunded police and firefighters pension fund managers could learn a lot from the IMRF's managers.

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Councilman Bob,
Nice post once again and very informative.

Who do these pension fund managers for the police and firefighter report to? Do they report to the city council or to the union heads?
I am confused. If they report to the city council, can't the council try to control them!

It is sickening to read your reports and find out that our P and F pension deficit funds increased almost 10 million in only one year. How could that be so, Councilman Bob? What is causing it? How can we solve this problem that we have been mandated to solve by the year 2033.

Are the Napergatians right when they say it is not solvable unless contributions are increased substantially by the employees who are paying nearly 10% and the taxpayers who are paying in excess of 20%? I think it is unfair to ask taxpayers to pay more than this generous amount that most of them can only dream of getting in matching contributions. On the other hand I doubt, city employees can afford to pay more than 10%.

If neither party is willing to budge which I believe is the case we have no choice but to lobby the state and ask them to reduce these pay-outs from 75% to 50% ASAP unless we want to have another 10 million in pension deficit added to our 61 million current deficit by next year. The other solution is to delay pension benefits to the p and ff's till at least age 66 which is the private sector retirement age. Mr. Bob Marshall is a perfect example why these pensions should be delayed. Here he is 51 years old, healthy as an ox, running marathons, and being a city manager while supposedly needing to be retired due to an exhaustive career as a public safety employee. Does not make any sense to most residents? It just seems like this p and ffs pension systems are a scam perpetuated on the taxpayers.

They are perfectly capable of working till age 65 at their same job or another job. Let them wait till 65 before they collect as we have to wait. We actually have to wait till 70 if we want full beneifts from the Social Security which pale in comparison to what these pension pay out to the p and ff at such young ages.

Of course the pension system is broke. Of course the police and firefighters don't want to fix it because they are benefitting unjustifiably and unfairly.

I hope the Naperville Sun runs an editorial and questions this mess as the Napergatians have on their blog site. I hope CM Bob's remarks encourages the Naperville Sun to take a position and be pro active in its important role as a watchdog for the community.

Original Joe,

Very nice post. It makes a lot of sense.

I can assure you the Napergate Nation will be voting in this election just like they did in 1997 were they swept 4 candidates into office.

It just seems the Napergate Nation is growing by default.

What I see happening is 400 police and fire fighters, their families, their relatives and friends voting for the status quo and keeping the estbalishment that entitle and enriches them in power. This group always votes and in big numbers.

The election in April of 2009 will also bring out a record number of voters. It is hard not to be in the camp of the Napergatians when their only intention is to stop government waste and reduce taxes that are completely out of control and even getting worse as revealed recently by Councilman Bob! I think we all agree this man is very credible and has an impeccable reputation.

The Napergatians have adopted a winning agenda very early on and I believe they will make a big difference. All they need to do is fire up their e-mail list and get out the vote.

The handwriting is on the wall for the estbalishment especially after the $61.4 million police and fire pension fund deficts after a warning by the State to start balancing these budgets. The 11 million operating budget deficit was just icing on the cake for the Napergatians and their campaign to end establishment rule. These deficits are not chump change.

The economy will not be an excuse that will work to save the establishment. The problems in City Hall are very deep rooted and all the econonmy did is forced them up to the surface.

By Anonymous on November 26, 2008 12:24 AM
The citie's spending projections are not based on the Dow, they are based on what taxes are coming in, and what they think future taxes will be. Since future projections were skewed by the bad economy caused by the building bust, Naperville is reacting to that, not to a few bloggers who think they have all the answers.


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Your statement if true indicates the stupidity of our city officials if it is true. It indicates if true that the Napergatians were right when they said our officials spend money like drunken sailors.

Basing spending on what taxes are coming in seems to be an ignorant and irresponsible way to spend. They should spend the least amount of money possible to get the job done. They should base taxes on frugal spending and not spend based on the taxes they have the ability to levy and collect.

They should be spending less and reducing our tax burden. How could the city not know growth was coming to an end in town since land was pretty much running out for development of new subdivisions.

Are you telling me the city was surprised by the 1% growth in the last 2 years. They did not adjust spending downwards to align it with decreased growth from 10% to 1%.

Why are you making excuses for city officials? Aren't they suppose to have foresight? The Napergatians had foresight and documented their prediction right on this blog site as early as April of 2006 almost 2.5 years ago. They were calling city officials drunken sailers then. Time has shown that in fact they spend money just like drunken sailors.

If you review those early posts of 2006 even Blogger Blake was amongst those who predicted this chaos was coming. He is not even paid. How come he can predict it and double dipping former City Manager Bob Marshall could not predict it? Maybe he was to worried about protecting his luscious pension income at the expense of the taxpayer. That may be the danger of having a pension recipient making calls on fixing a broken pension system.

By Anonymous on November 26, 2008 12:24 AM
Blake, the housing industry started declining roughly 3 years ago. Naperville and other boom towns did not see it coming and based their actual and projected spending on a housing boom that had already passed the usual amount of years in a boom cycle. I have mentioned this before, and it doesn't change.

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I disagree with you and agree with Blake. Nothing you stated makes sense especially after reading CM Bob's informative post.

How can explain how the IMRF has no funding problems and no pension defiicts very much unlike the P and F pensions funds? Are they not effected by the same economic scenarios you describe?

As CM Bob so eloquently said, "the underfunded police and firefighters pension fund managers could learn a lot from the IMRF's managers."

Maybe we need to take what the Napergatians have been telling us a little more seriously based on CM Bob's post that the IMRF managers have been so successful in managing their pension fund. Kudos to them!

Original Joe,

Your post makes a lot of sense.

As you state whether the Napergate Nation puts forth or endorses candidates is almost irrelevant.

The bottom line is they will be voting in large numebers.

People that are angry and upset about their taxes tend to salivate to vote.

I agree with our Original Joe that a candidate that shows concern for the NN issues will improve his chances substantially.

I suspect most of the bloggers in opposition on this blog site are city employees who are benefitting from these out of control pensions, out of control salaries and ongoing double dipping by city executives who were suppose to be retired due to old age or burn-out on the previous job.

If a police officer's job was so tiring, Mr. Marshall would not have had the energy to lead the city. Or maybe it is tiring, since he led the city to the verge of bankruptcy.

The beauty of the blogs here is that any candidate who wants to pull a ruse can search the archives to see what 'positions' they must 'stand on' to get lots of instant votes. Even if the NN as a whole does not 'endorse' a candidate; the prospective candidate can put forth the claim of 'concern' for the issues brought forth and they will by default look better than the 'establishment' candidates and would get the votes of the NN... unless the NN decides not to vote at all in the upcoming election.

In short, your cards are on the table and any halfway decent strategist can leverage that.

Just to keep this post 'on topic'.... Good luck to Mr. Krieger. I hope you can be as effective as you anticipate.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Blake, the housing industry started declining roughly 3 years ago. Naperville and other boom towns did not see it coming and based their actual and projected spending on a housing boom that had already passed the usual amount of years in a boom cycle. I have mentionde this before, and it doesn't change. The time to reign in spending was in the late '90s and early 2000's. In other words, spending should have never gotten so out of hand. My jobs have been in the construction industry since the mid '80's, and it just amazed me that people thought this housing boom would last forever. The citie's spending projections are not based on the Dow, they are based on what taxes are coming in, and what they think future taxes will be. Since future projections were skewed by the bad economy caused by the building bust, Naperville is reacting to that, not to a few bloggers who think they have all the answers.

To Blake 11/25 @ 7:08 PM:

On your question about the pension deficit in the Municipal Fund, I believe what you had in mind is the pension fund that benefits the municipal employees other than policemen and firefighters. That fund is the Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund (IMRF), which I understand is 100% funded (no deficit). Check out www.imrf.org and click on the 100% Funding tab and you'll see several downloadable publications on the IMRF's 100% funding goal. IMHO, the underfunded police and firefighters pension fund managers could learn a lot from the IMRF's managers.

Melissa –

Where to start?

I’m not side-stepping anything. I just asked a simple and direct question. I was genuinely interested in why the Napergatians had such an interest in city waste, but not waste in the school districts. I don’t know what you thought, but it was a sincere question asked in a civil manner. Instead of an informative answer in a polite manner, I got attacked in a long rant. Are you really incapable of civility?

To paraphrase JQP from long ago, is there any wonder why I can find little in common with your group when you engage in such blatant and unwarranted attacks?

The reason I asked my question? Because on the Budget thread Bubo posted his tax bill (in %’s) and showed that the city, Naperville Township, the library, the park district, and the related pension funds for these entities were 19.16% of his tax bill (the city and city pensions were a mere 9.04%), while D203 and the D203 pension accounted for 71.92% of his tax bill. You may think city taxes are going up fast, but they’re still small in comparison to the school districts’ and I was simply wondering why there was no focus on this issue by your group.

And you think a yearly raise of CPI or 5% is normal? Where do you work? A cost of living or CPI increase is only common if you work for the government. In the past I worked for two large corporations and one small business. There were never cost of living increases in these jobs. In fact, in one of my corporate jobs a good appraisal got you a whopping 3% raise, which barely kept up with inflation but was common in the industry I was working. And in today’s economy, I think the teachers have a hell of a deal, especially when you add in job security from tenure and the union.

You think I’m too prolific a writer? Ha! I think that title belongs to Anon as he writes far more than I do. At most, I post once or twice per day and go days without posting at all. I try to limit my discussions to one or two threads at a time because I actually have a job and can’t follow them all. I try to post at night, before I start work, or on my lunch/break time so I can assure you I am not a firefighter. You can insinuate all you want about my vocation and education, but you’re just acting childish.

You’re taking a month off now? That’s too bad. I think it could be therapeutic for your apparent anger issues if you were to answer my original question free from attacks.

T.B.

By Ken on November 25, 2008 2:16 AM

Claiming that you are relevant because of the fallout from a slow economy just makes you look like fools.

__________________________________________________________________

Ken,

You seem like you have no memory. We were blogging with you last year when the Dow was over 14,000 and the city was experiencing budget problems. Last year they had a 5.1 million deficit. This year they have an 11 million dollar deficit.

Same with the pension. Last year they had a 6.3 million deficit. This year it rose to 9.7 million defict. Mind you, I am only talking about P and F pension funds. I don't know how big the pension deficit is in the Municipal Fund or if there is even one. We have to await CM BOB!

If you think all this fall-out in the city just happened because of a slowing economy, you need to have your bearings examined. That is just an excuse to mask all the problems at city hall.

Two years ago we exposed them right on this blog site repeatedly while the Dow climbed from 12,000 to a record over 14,000 something.

How do you explain that?

I agree with another blogger who stated all our waste was masked by our incredible growth. Once growth stopped, the waste was exposed.

It is hard for me to understand how a town with thousands of McMansions paying from 20k to 100k in real estate taxes, could ever have any problems balancing the budget. It just seems like someone screwed up really bad and should be held accountable.

Sam,
I totally agree with you.

An article published in the Naperville Sun contradicts everything this fire fighter friend is saying. His credibility at this point is in question.

My husband also owns a 32 year old car and it runs fine. How could a fire engine that only has a few miles a day put on it be expired in 20 years.....not possible.

As you state, if you can sell it to another fire department that means it is usable and functional. I think our fire department is just a little spoiled and wants the newest and shinest toys on the market. We all do....but can we afford to with our massive deficit in both operating and pension. Is no one able to smell the coffee anymore! It is so frustrating to hear all these things on this blog site. I am not looking forward to my next May 1 real estate tax bill. I just may send it to the city council to pay. I am already upside down on my home so let them pay my real estate tax bill and take my home for all I care. I can find an apartment where the wealthy landlord pays my real estate taxes for the most part. Let him fight city hall along with the Napergatians.

I am just getting fed up with these tax increases and fighting them annually. I lost my last appeal!

If wear and tear can take its toll on our fire engines in 20 years, maybe they should not be using them to shop at the grocery store.

My bet will be wagered right with yours on the functionality of those fire engines we are selling. Aren't we the city that was selling our pick up trucks at 53,000 miles until the Napergatians exposed it on Ted's Threads? I think the city stopped that practice after it was exposed...but only after the Napergatians exposed it and publicized it right here on this blog site.

By T.B. on November 25, 2008 8:47 AM
Melissa –

Your response to Herbert was interesting for two reasons:

2) I find it odd that you stated “We just are all for no government waste and lower taxes” but then said “We don't discuss the school district”.

Why not? More of our tax dollars go to the school districts then go to the city. The Napergatians have shown no qualms about taking on the fire and police unions, why not the teachers’ union with their above average raises, tenure, election shenanigans (PURE), and pensions?

T.B.


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TB,
The Napergatians have been focused on City Hall for nearly 2 decades. It was something that evolved and it is good for different groups to be focused in order to succeed. As you know this group was founded by the Napergate Man after he was abused by city officials for nearly a decade. We are just continuing what he started. If he stays in retirement, we owe it to him to continue the legacy he started.

We have a right to focus on City Hall if that is the agenda we choose. It is not our duty to also control the federal government and school district if we choose not to.

Let me speak as an individual about the school district...not as a Napergatian.

Our schools are limited to increases that are the lesser of inflation or 5%. How much can they really abuse the taxpayers with those caps in place? You have an MBA or so you claim TB. How can they be so abusive when they are limited to a cap of 5% in the worse scenario? Put your thinking cap on if you have one.....

Teachers are not overpaid. Their pensions are less than half of what public safety employees are. Many can barely afford to live in an apartment in Naperville. I know many many teachers. They are truly struggling and many live with their parents.

Naperville North and Central are old structures that are barely standing. Teachers barely get raises that keep up with inflation. Teachers don't have starting salaries of 60k. Try that for end of career salaries if they don't get their masters or some form of higher education.

Last year I checked my tax bill. The school district showed a 3% increase in my taxes. The city portion showed a 19.67% increase on my tax bill.

Yes, the city portion should be smaller as we rarely see a fire fighter or police officer. The teachers baby sit, watch and educate our kids all day long and then some for extra curricular activities. They work very hard and earn their dollars. Trust me, TB! And I am not a teacher and do not have relatives who are teachers.

The issue is who is abusing the tax system to the tune of 20% increase each year. The schools or the city. The answer should be obvious. It is the city. That is why you are considered to have half a brain on this blog site. You just don't think. You put your foot in your mouth 10 times a day. I try to stay off these blogs as much as possible as they are time consuming but when I read some of the things you write, I am forced to check in when my children are napping.

Your entire life TB on this blog site is spent sidestepping the issue. We told you to focus on the issues and not the Napergatians and you went on a rant against the hard working school teachers. Do have attention deficit disorder? Are you unable to focus?

The Naperville Sun has had many blogs on the schools. If you had issues, you should have raised them there. We the Napergatians don't have any issues with our schools and fine teachers. You won't find us blogging on those threads. We for the most part admire the teachers. We don't have an issue with the tax portion of our real estate tax bill that comes from Disrict 203 since most Napergatians as you may know live in this school district.

If you have an issue with the school district, don't try to hijack this thread. Go to the appropriate thread and debate. Some guy named Thom Higgins seems to have most of the answers. I do not know him or know if he is credible or not credible. But he seems to like to debate on those threads. As far as I am concerned and as far as my hundreds of Napergatian friends are concerned we have no issue with the school system.

As far as the Napergate Man is concerned, he had 3 kids in the District 203 school system and always praised it as a great school system. He felt he was getting his money's worth. He could afford private schools for his kids, but he chose to put them in District 203. That should answer all your questions about how he and we feel about the school system.

We don't attack entities just to get high or have fun like you and Ken. We are serious people who are trying to make our town better, more livable and more affordable.

I can't believe you would say that teachers are getting above average raises when they are capped by the lower of the CPI Index or 5%. That is simply not possible TB. Again, you need to get off your butt once in a while and stop writing and researching.

Do you realize that you replaced the Original Joe as the most active blogger on this site by far? Don't you think bloggers are exhausted of hearing your "tired" and "repeated" messages? Really, get a life TB. You sound like a broken record on this blog site. If you can't get off your butt, do some reading instead of nonsensical writing all the time. Now that I spilled out my thoughts in the last 24 hours, don't expect to hear from me in a month or so.

What kind of a job do you have that allows you to blog all day and night 365 days a year? Sometimes I wonder if you are the fireman and it is not your brother. A fireman is the only one I know who could blog at any time during a 24 hour period when duty is not calling. I have a feeling Fire Fighter Friend may be another fire man as he seems to have not only a lot of interest but inside information that only a fireman could have since it was not published in the Naperville Sun or elsewhere. Friends just don't spend day upon day defending a friend's pension. Most friedns don't even share their retirement pensions or savings. That is usually personal.

Anyway an article published in the Naperville Sun a couple of weeks ago contradicts much of what Fire Fighter Friend has stated. I trust the Naperville Sun is much more credible than an anonymous fireman in disguise!

Having said that, I do respect Fireman Sam for admitting he is a fireman and debating in a very constructive and professional manner. We need more sincere bloggers like Fireman Sam who at least mean well and are trying to seek the truth but maybe unwilling to accept it for justifiable reasons....at least as far as he is concerned.

No one wants to make sacrifices voluntarily. It is human nature. That is why sacrifices have to be forced on us sometimes....fire fighters and police officers should not be exempted from sacrifices that we all need to make to survive a disastrous economy approaching the 1929-1932 DEPRESSION!

I have a question about the ladder truck that is "twenty years old and in bad shape" How can that be? It gets limited use, is stored indoors and should be well maintained by our full time staff. If it is in bad shape after this, someone is not taking care of the equipment. I've got a 30 year old car that I can drive every day....I'll wager that if the truck is sold, it will be used by a fire department somewhere.....

We are spoiled in this town -- the lavish spending has been masked by growth. The growth in the tax base is slowing and the spending has to slow to match it.....It is going to be painful but it must be done...

The city was supposed to pay a search firm $22,000 for the search. As far as I know they did indeed pay them.

Back to the subject matter:

Does anyone know if our brainiacs at City Hall paid money to a search firm for the priviledge of hiring someone who already worked for them?

Melissa –

Your response to Herbert was interesting for two reasons:

1) “I think the politicians are totally out of control right now. The time is ripe for him [TGM] to be involved. Only time will tell if he wants to get involved again.”

I think the NGM has shown over the past year that he doesn’t want to be involved in these issues. I think one of your group said he’s “retired”. If the Napergatians want to be a real influence in the city again, they should start planning with this in mind. Waiting for the White Knight to come riding to your rescue may prove to be fruitless.

2) I find it odd that you stated “We just are all for no government waste and lower taxes” but then said “We don't discuss the school district”.

Why not? More of our tax dollars go to the school districts then go to the city. The Napergatians have shown no qualms about taking on the fire and police unions, why not the teachers’ union with their above average raises, tenure, election shenanigans (PURE), and pensions?

T.B.

First off, Anonymous 11/24/08 @ 1:37pm was me.

Second, if you ever want to see an out and out lie, look at Melissa's post that says the napergatians treat every citizen with respect, right after she shows disrespect towards TB and me. Of course, this is the same Melissa that trespassed on private property to look into the windows of a privately owned house, so I shouldn't be surprised by any of her actions.

Third, TB and I have made suggestions to cut the budget, but the napergate cult members ignore them. You cult members would rather focus your hate filled, idiotic, illegal suggestions at board members, the police department, and now the fire department. Make some suggestions that could actually work instead of nonsense suggestions, and maybe someone will take you seriously.

Claiming that you are relevant because of the fallout from a slow economy just makes you look like fools.

By Herbert on November 24, 2008 5:13 PM
Melissa on November 24, 2008 4:06 PM

Hello Melissa,

I copied two lines from your post above. The first indicates that at one time "many Napergatians" attended election forums and presumably other city meetings. Why and when did your group stop doing this?

The second line above needs some clarifying. Why wouldn't your vote be up to you to endorse whomever you wish? Does your group vote based on what someone else tells you to do, or do you vote on your own?

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Mr. Herbert,
Those are 2 very good questions.

1. We were involved in the 1995, 1997, 1999 and 2001 elections. We got many candiates elected and in one election we had a sweep of 4. We had many issues at those times. The city was just operating erraticaly. Trying to put a shopping center in the middle of Huntington Estates and Pembroke Commons subdivision is just one item that energerized so many residents who became known as Napergatians. The Napergate Man lived in PC so he was more than willing to help in our battle and decided not only to finance it but lead it along with Activist Donna Rogers. We were also very involved in helping the Napergate Man save his liquor licenses which the City of Naperville was trying to revoke due to his political views. They actually revoked them but the high courts returned them. At the time the legal department was wasting taxpayer money like it grew on trees. We had so many other issues that motivated us and mobilized us. We had good leadership including the Napergate Man, Donna Rogers, Rich Wieyland, Rich Strawbridge and numerous others.

Once we got candidates elected, we felt they could represent us and we could relax a bit. They did for a while. The establishment which always had the majority was behaving itself for several years. Some years taxes rates even decreased. Thus we took a back seat for serveral years. We are not trouble makers or people seeking power. We are just simple folks making sure government does not become abusive and wasteful.

We are back now because the City of Naperville returned to all its bad ways of the past. Do you expect us to remain quiet in the face of a 61.4 million dollar pension fund defiict that got worse by 9.7 million dollars in one year? Do you expect us to remain uninvolved with an 11 million dollar operating budget looming in the horizon? Do you expect us to remain quiet while the police get paid overtime in a sham transaction thru private event organizers? Do you expect us to remain quiet while police collect OT to the tune of 3 hours while only sitting in the jury box for 1.5 hours.needlessly if I may add? Don't let me go on....

2. A party like the Napergate Party can only be effective if the members work together to select candidates and than endorse those candidates. No one forces us to do anything. But you could say 99% of Napergatians voted for the slate of candidates the Napergate Man endorsed. We were all against the estabishment candidates who we felt ruined our city. Why would we vote for them? The Napergate Man discussed each candidate and gave us many good reasons to vote for his/our slate. He did not just pick those candidates from a hat. He asked for our input. We called him and e-mailed him to discuss his choices/our choices and he always enjoyed discussing them.

Many Democrats vote straight Democratic. Many Republicans vote straight Republican. Are you implying it is a crime for Napergatians to vote straight Napergatian? I am sure the Establishmnet Folks vote straight Establishment. Is that a crime?

In summary our leadership at the time led by the Napergate Man recommended we vote for the Napergate Slate put out in the Napergate Ads. Most of us if not all agreed and voted for the slate because we wanted to and not because we had to. Keep in mind being a Napergatinan is voluntary. If we don't like the movement we can leave at any time. There are no membership cards, no fees and no intimidation to vote in any way. Just recommendations!

If the Napergate Man came back and edorsed a slate of candidates, I would vote for his slate again. He is someone who you can trust. He is not into these elections for power or money. He has proved time and again he was only involved because he cares about the residents who cared about him during his long battles and wars with City Hall.

The Napergate Man is a queit man who does not tell you he is going to do something. He does it and than you hear about it. I would not be surprised if we saw Napergate Ads again this election. He does not like politics but he has limits as how far he will let politicians go before he feels a need to check on them.

I think the politicians are totally out of control right now. The time is ripe for him to be involved. Only time will tell if he wants to get involved again. It is not easy building the kind of grass roots movement he once commanded. He could get 4000 signatures on a petition in 2 weeks. He did it twice when the town was much smaller.

I hope I answered your questions. I felt there was a hidden message that we are like sheep following a shephard. It is nothing like that. We are all thinkers. We use to e-mail on his network 10 times as much as we blog here in order to enlighten each other and make the right decisions.

I know some people on this blog site find it hard to understand how so many of us agree. To me it seems simple. We just are all for no government waste and lower taxes. It is easy to be united and agree if that is what you stand for. We don't discuss abortion which is not a city issue. We don't discuss the Iraq War. We don't discuss the school district. Our sole mission is to be watchdogs on City Hall and vote the culprits out of office when election day comes.

If you are seeing a little more activity these days on this blog site, it is because elections are around the corner and we all are deteremined to vote whether we have Napergate ads or not. Most of us would know a Napergate friendly candidate from an Establishemt friendly candidate from a mile away.

Have no fear, Herbert. We know what we are doing and we will be up to the task. I believe we can get our candidates elected even if we don't spend a penny on advertising. If there is a will, there is a way!


---------------------------------------------------------------

Just for the record one of us Napergatians uses his first name which is also Herbert when he blogs. You may want to choose a different handle if you want to avoid confusion. Based on your questions, I don't believe you are that person.

Melissa –

You miss my point. I’m not impatient for action by the Napergatians, I just want them to do something concrete instead of living in this fantasy world where they think posts here actually accomplish something.

As for the Ponds of Hobsen West, I appreciate the fact that you got off your butt and did something but I think it was well discussed at the time that occasional flooding is not the same thing as being a flood plain. I think the developer's desire to sell had more to due with the current economic climate than your on-line assertion that the area was a flood plain. This is just another example of Napergatian lack of cause and effect.

T.B.

Rodger,
This was not a rumor. The staffing for station 10 IS coming from shutting down Ladder 5 at station 5. The ladder truck that ladder 5 crew is using will be moved to a spare, and the current spare ladder will be sold off(IT'S 20 YEARS OLD AND IN BAD SHAPE). The fire engines and ladder are at minimum safe staffing of 3, throughout the city, per NFPA standards. The city can not staff station 10 without taking another ladder truck out of service.
The acting fire chief stated this to the city council at a recent budget / cost cutting meeting. This is public record, LOOK IT UP.

People are fed up and sick and tired of this DOUBLE DIPPING,who are the DD's and why do they think it is o.k.? That maybe be acceptable in cheecago,but aren't we suppose to be better than that??? What are they thinking collecting two,three or more checks from TAXPAYERS. we are stupido to let these PEOPLE continue the con. God Bless the NAPERVILLIANS. We finally caught up with Aurora.

The napergatians and the napervillians are alive and well, they listen and watch and research, they will be active in the city election,and maybe they will be active enough to put a couple honest citizens on the council. First we must revise the pay schedules fore police/fire,this is crazy what those people earn to start. What is wrong with our public servants? They seem hell bent to DESTRO our fine city. DOUBLE DIPPING is WRONG!!!! why cannot they understand that??? We need help and must unseat the city boys!!!

Melissa on November 24, 2008 4:06 PM

He along with many Napergatians attended all the election forums.

I do not know the position of the Napergate Nation on Councilman Bob, but I know if it was up to me I would endorse him

______________________________________________________________

Hello Melissa,

I copied two lines from your post above. The first indicates that at one time "many Napergatians" attended election forums and presumably other city meetings. Why and when did your group stop doing this?

The second line above needs some clarifying. Why wouldn't your vote be up to you to endorse whomever you wish? Does your group vote based on what someone else tells you to do, or do you vote on your own?

By T.B. on November 24, 2008 8:47 AM
Maryann –

Fred had some good points. What are the Napergatian plans for this election with so many empty council seats? Will they run a slate? Endorse any candidates? Isn’t it time to stop talking about influence and start using it?

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TB,

You obviously don't know how the Napergatians operate. I was involved with the Napergate Movement in the old days. The Napergate Man did not hand pick his friends for political position....he did not hand pick his neighbors to endorse....he did not pick his relatives to get elected.

He along with many Napergatians attended all the election forums. We jointly evaluated the candidates and the Napergate Man made the final picks and endorsements based on our input and his observation. He also interviewed many of the candidates in person and by telephone. He made sure they wanted his Napergate Endorsement in his Napergate Ads before he endorsed them. Of course all his choices wanted his endorsement and he endorsed them. He had established a lot of credibility exposing improprieties at city hall in the media and defeateing city hall especially in the Federal and State Court systems.

I suspect if the Napergate Man or the Napergate Movements wants to get involved again, we will choose our candidates from the current pool of candidates based on their views and qualifications. We have to await the forums to understand their views before we endorse them. This is a serious process, TB, and we just don't throw darts to choose our candidates. I am surprised you are so impatient. We barely know the names of the candidates. The Naperville Sun has not given the biographies of any candidate yet.

It seems like you and Ken think endorsing candidates is like playing Barbie Dolls with Ken wanting a blonde to be Mayor and you wanting a brunette to be Mayor. It is a little more complicated than that, TB. Again, it is not a black and white issue. No pun intended but the selection process is difficult and very gray.

The Napergate Nation is not interested in power or political office. We are interested in endorsing qualified candidates whomever they may be that have our interests of controlling government waste and decreasing taxes. And may I add treating all citizens with respect including CM Dick Furstenau. Yes, the Napergate Nations believes Mr. Furstenau was abused by city officials and we are behind him 100%. We know he would never hit a cop. We have known him for a long time and he is a gentleman in scholar. He will always have our endorsement if he ever decides to run for office. I do not know the position of the Napergate Nation on Councilman Bob, but I know if it was up to me I would endorse him. I understand he does not have to run this election. It is good to know he will be on the council especially because of his honesty and willingness to be transparent with the residents.

I suspect the Napergate Man or the Napergatians or both will be looking for candidates who may be interested in abolishing HOME RULE as many Napergatians view Home Rule as the source of evil that got us in the mess we are currently in. If we can elminate Home Rule we won't have to operate as watchdogs every day of the year on these Sun Blogs. We can relax as the city would be forced to stay within the 5% cap the state dictates on tax increases. Not that we would be happy with a 5% tax increase but it beats this years 9.68% tax increase and last years 20% tax increase.

Try to be a little patient TB. I think you need to stop asking what can the Napergatians do to help Naperville. Have you ever thought of asking what can TB and Ken do to help Naperville besides ranting against the Napergatians day and night. Let us hear some solutions. Write about some candidates if you know them and educate the public. Do something besides playing with Barbie Dolls and Kenny! We live in a real world with real problems. Sometimes, I just can't believe how immature you act on this blog site.

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PS. Just in case you forgot TB, I was the gal that spent a lot of time researching the Ponds of Hobson West swamp in the old days. I got off my butt and did something. I knew it was a flood plain and that the builders would never build on it. In fact, they did not build and got a bail-out from the park district for their massive mistake. While we could not stop the establishment bail-out of this swamp land, at least we exposed it. Hopefully, we can use this situation against the establishment in the next election. My deceased dentist, Dr. Soper, warned them that his land flooded real bad but in the hysteria of the bubbling real estate values they thought they could find a solution to the flooding. Well, the solution was not practical and way too expensive especially after the bubble burst! Now when did you and Ken get off your computers and do any research. Tell us what you did besides babble on this blog site as if you are Monday morning quarterbacks.

Firefighter Friend,

Excess fat exists everywhere in this world. Of course the fire department has some excess fat.

I believe some Napergatian made the suggestion of staffing Fire Station #10 from the other 9 stations. It was a good idea and the city jumped on it.

I don't think the city would endanger the lives of any resident. They did the right thing to keep costs down.

The Naperville Sun reported the city is buying a new ladder engine for $177,000 or some such number for Station #10. I don't know where you get your information that they are suddenly getting a fire engine from Station #5. It sounds like you are spreaking rumors on this blog site.

I think you are just trying to create panic so the taxpayers don't demand excess fat be removed from the fire dept. as well as every other dept in the city with no exceptions.

In the end the taxpayers have spoken and the city listened. We will never tolerate 20% tax increases each year. We want no more than 5% tax increases in the worse scenario. Just like State Rule! Otherwise let us abolish Home Rule!

Why don't you try publishing a solution to the fire fighters pension fund deficit that was 3.5 million this year. Give us a solution instead of rumors!!!

Jackie –

First of all, you start off with “If you had half a brain…” which is just a typical Napergatian attack. Are you really unable to make a coherent argument without relying on insults? Would you start off a conversation that way if we were standing on a street corner? Or would you maybe have some manners? I was civil to Maryann and this is what I get? This is like dealing with a bunch of five-year olds.

Secondly, while I’m sure you would like to think that Napergatian posts here have some sort of outside influence on our city, you haven’t shown any cause and effect relationship. Your evidence is couched in terms such as “I bet” and “it probably”. I especially liked “Of course, the city is using this blog site to feel the pulse of the residents.” Based on what FACTS? Not assumptions, not beliefs, not desires, but cold hard facts.

Third, the fact that Marshall lost a job to someone who is better qualified (according to Anon’s first post here) says nothing to your group’s influence on the city. It shows the system worked and the best person for the job won.

Lastly, I’m not upset at all that the Napergatians have decided to try and influence the city. I just wish you’d actually go out and do it! Run a slate of candidates or make endorsements, but stop living in this fantasy land where you believe what’s written here influences anything at all. While you idly complain here about the council being packed with Establishment people, you’re missing your chance to fill two or three council seats with Napergatians.

I’m not upset that your group thinks they can influence the city, I think maybe you’re upset at the possibility that your group can’t do it. Is that why there’s such Napergatian inaction in real city politics and a fascination with being able to change the city through this forum (and I’m talking now…spare me the ancient history lessons)?

No, you may not have the NGM’s money, but that’s no excuse for inaction. I’m sure you could each spare $5, $10, or more and there are literally thousands of you, right? Obama raised large sums in small internet donations. Follow his lead.

Get off your butts and actually do something. Oh, and good luck.

T.B.

Back to the subject matter:

Does anyone know if our brainiacs at City Hall paid money to a search firm for the priviledge of hiring someone who already worked for them?

To: By Brianna on November 23, 2008 3:06 PM


You wrote "The schools have a statutory limit and a 5% cap on tax increases. They are under State Rule. Most years they are below the cap and in the 3-4% range of tax increases." --- You are wrong on this. The rule is the lesser of inflation or 5%, and the schools spending has averaged 3x inflation for the entire decade! The growth in home values and additional building has masked this, but it appears we are about to opay the piper!

You wrote " They are doing a great job except for a few top administrators who arrange to get promotions right before retirement to jack up their retirement pensions...that issue is being investigated by the Dept. of Justice at the current time." -- From your lips to God;s ears!

You wrote "The schools operate in crumbling buildings in District 203." --- Again, incorrect. If you walk the schools and talk with both engineers and architects, you will find that they are in good structural shape (this right from teh official report from 203)


Walter, if no one takes me seriously, why is the leftover hate that the napergate cult members haven't used on their hate for the police, firemen, and elected officials always directed at me?

Jackie, anyone with half a brain knows that the city is reacting to the economic downturn that has been going on for the past couple of years. It the economy wasn't bad, the napergatians could blog until hell freezes over, and nothing would change. The napergatians should check their egos at the start up button, use facts, quit the attack tactics, and become viable contributors.

By T.B. on November 24, 2008 8:47 AM
Maryann –

T.B.

P.S. And please, everyone…stop claiming the city or NPD are doing things differently because of what’s posted on these threads. The whole idea is laughable.

==================================================================

Hey TB,
Where were you when Host Ted and Moderator Jim announced that viewership of this blog site reached 100,000 views per week. If you had half a brain, you would understand many more people read this blog site than write. Very similar to the Letter to the Editor section of the print edition.

Host Ted was surprised with the number of city officials who read this blog site. I personally know of 2 council men that read this site besides CM Bob who participates. I don't know Darlene Senger but I bet she reads it to since a few threads have been devoted to her. Why would she not want to review what people are saying about the mudslingling in her election? I am sure she loves the feedback this blog site gave her. It probably helped her gauge the pulse and win the election.

Of course, the city is using this blog site to feel the pulse of the residents. When they appointed City Manager Marshall to run the city temporarily, they felt he was the most qualified. After the criticism the city council received over several months for selecting Mr. Marshall right on this blog site, they changed their mind and realized he was not the right person for the job. Of course, his less than desirable performance was also a factor. The perception of his Double Dipping was another factor the city did not want in the limelight on a daily basis. Legal or not, people in the corporate and private world resent these double dips at taxpayer expense. The city knows that now! They will keep Marshall hidden while he double dips but unfortunately he will continue to double dip because the corrupt system allows him to legally do so.

I think it is excellent that the Napergatians do research and show that under Mr. Marshall's one year tenure the pension deficit increased by 9.7 million dollars while he was under orders by the State to start reducing it and balance it out by the year 2033.

You are just upset that hundreds of Napergatians have decided to use this blog site to influence our city leaders. The Napergatians have been successful. The Napergate Man used expensive Napergate Ads to influence city officials. He was successful. The Napergatians don't have his kind of money and used this free blog site to influence city officials. (It appears Sun Officials are not going to allow Editor Tim West to take over this blog site and censure Napergatians as he does under his blog site which has failed miserably due to his censorship and blatant support of the establishment that gainfully employs his wife.)

The Napergate Man in the past and now the Napergatians have both been successful! The Napergatians have been warning the city for 2 years they were about to fall off the cliff. They finally listened but only after they fell off the cliff. Maybe, next time they will listen a little earlier before they hit the bottom of the valley!

Keep living in your world of denial with your buddy Ken, TB! You guys really need to meet in real life...you are so much alike.....

Hey Walter.. You said

"The city is responding. They found a little or a lot of excess fat in 9 fire stations and and will be using it to operate the 10th station instead of hiring 12 more fire fighters and increasing the budget deficit from 11 million to 12 million. Kudos to the City!"

Get the facts right before you speak. The city is NOT using excess fat from the other nine stations, there is NO extra fat at the other stations. The city is MOVING the ladder truck out of station 5 and putting it at station 10. Station 5 will only have a fire engine in it and also no ambulance. Station 5's firefighter/paramedics that are assigned to the fire engine will have to handle ALL fire and ambulance calls in their stations area. I hope you don't live on the south side, near station 5, you will be waiting much longer for help....

Mr. Ed,

Hey, wasn't Mr. Ed a horse...

Instead of being condescending and sarcastic to Brianna maybe you should have stopped to first realize that there are at least 40 thousand other cities, towns, villages, and municipalities in America alone that could lay claim to the same braggadocio.

Are there better places to live? Are there worse places to live? And every aspect of all of this is relative and subjective and opinion.

Fact is more and more over the last decade or so there have been an increasing number of reasons for some people to be embarrassed that they live in Naperville. Again, everything is relative and one persons source of embarrassment may be another persons source of braggadocio. Some people think the sun rises and fall on Naperville and others see a lot of overpriced and overhyped mediocrity. The glass may be half full or it may be half empty. Perspective is everything. Some people may love the standards we hold so dear and true and others may loath them.

The only thing that is relatively accurate in your post is that living in Naperville comes with a cost. Again to some that cost is trivial, but to others it is significant. Yes, Naperville has some who are filthy rich and we also have some homeless and absolutely everything in between the two extremes. We have some people who pay 30 thousand dollars a year in property taxes and others who's total income is less than 30 thousand dollars a year.

Somehow we have to balance the two extremes and not squeeze the average guy too much. Pay attention though, because the average guy has been complaining more and more about the cost of living in Naperville. If too many people decide they are not pleased with the general trend of things then there will be a backlash. Smart politicians are insightful enough to never get caught in a backlash. In the weeks and months ahead we will see which of our city leaders are blessed with insight and which are not.

Two observations:

1. We can all breath a sigh of relief that Marshall will be out in a few days as Acting City Manager. Good riddance!

2. With the current budget deficit this year and the even larger deficit coming next year and the year after I wonder how long even the City of Naperville will be able to continue to afford the luxury of an Assistant City Manager?

Maryann –

Fred had some good points. What are the Napergatian plans for this election with so many empty council seats? Will they run a slate? Endorse any candidates? Isn’t it time to stop talking about influence and start using it?

As for the downtown parking garages, I also agree that they won’t all be needed. But you have a choice here. You don’t have to pay for the parking garages…just don’t eat downtown.

T.B.

P.S. And please, everyone…stop claiming the city or NPD are doing things differently because of what’s posted on these threads. The whole idea is laughable.

Let us see if this new City Manager has the courage to reduce salaries of fire fighters and police officers during the next union negotiations. Let us see if he can reduce the pension deficit one year from now. Marshall failed and increased the pension deficit during his reign in office...to the tune of up to 7 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that Councilman Bob revealed the actual numbers, the correct number is 9.7 million and not 7 million pension deficit for one year. It is hard to believe a city manager can do so much damage in one year. My goodness gracious!

After all he is a former cop getting a pension, so he was the last person in the world who was going to fix a pension fund feeding him....what a conflict of interest to have appointed him City Manager. You just don't fix a cash machine if all the money is falling in your pocket!!!

This new city manager is not collecting a 75% pension so he may not have a conflict of interest. He will be valuing his new job and will demand a reduction in salaries in order that future pensions be reduced to manageble levels. His only other option is petitioning the state to reduce the 75% pay-out number or send us a floating casino to put on the Riverwalk. At least we would have a better chance to compete with Elgin, Joliet and Aurora who all have docked multiple floating casinos. I would be all for widening our river so we can fit a 100 million casino to fund both our budget and pension deficits. The taxpayers have no extra dollars to spare. They need to rebuild their devastated retirement plans that collapsed with the bear stock market.

Blogger The Establishment,

The establishment are the Wehrlis, Mosers and other old time families who have clout that controls City Hall. They finance the campaigns of the establishment council members they want elected. The Napergate Man use to finance the campaigns of the opposition candidates with a lot less money but at least he tried.

A paper trail existed until the Napergate Man exposed it. There is no longer a paper trail to how the financing takes place. The Brestal Law Firm which is part of the establishment use to partially finance the campaigns of all establishment friendly candidates. Of course in return the establishment friendly candidates upon being elected rubber stamped 99% of his development projects. They rejected 1% for public relation purposes. The owners of those big building downtown also are establishment folks and weild much power on city hall. They are so powerful they exempted themselves from all parking requriements and passed the burden on to you and me....the establishment. Are you still asking who the establishment is!

The establishment rescued the Crestview Builders out of a swamp of land they bought for the same price they paid for it. Despite that it was a flood swamp and land prices depreciated significantly in the last 2 years.

That is the establishment, my friend, doing what the estbalishment does best. Taking care of their own at any espense to the taxpayer.

Those behind Omnia were establishment trying to get their buddies on the city council to grant them FDIC insurance in case they failed. Try to get FDIC insurance for a project you want to build in town if you are not "ESTABLISHMENT." You will be laughed out of City Hall if you are not arrested first arrested for attempted bribery.

Try to go to the city council and see if they will buy your parcel of land for what you paid for it 2 years ago before the real estate bubble burst...you will have no luck unless you are a Wehrli, Moser, etc.

JFYI Crestview Builders is owned by a cousin of one of our council members. The cousin votes on his cousins projects and the establishment sees no conflict of interest. Even the legal department sees no conflict of interest as they fear the entrenched and powerful establishment.

The only establishment person with a conscience on the city council is Mayor George Pradel. For example, he exempts himself on issues involving the First National Bank of Naperville since his son works there. No one asks him to....he just does it. That is why the Napergatians love Mayor Pradel. He is as straight as an arrow and as honest as the Pope! The man is not corruptable. The Napergate Man told us that 15 years ago in one of his ads and we can see the Napergate Man was spot on about Mayor Pradel.

I am not in the mood to write chapters but review the 44 Napergate Ads archived in Nicolos Library one day and you will find out who the establishment is. A kind librarian will help you find the ads.

I am assuming you are a newcomer to town. You can also learn a lot about the establishment by reviewing the Napergate Archives on this Sun Blog Site. You will never have to ask, "Who is the Establishment again in your life...you will know!" For sure!!!

Mr. Ed,

You make some very good points. But every city in the United States provides these same services and most for a much less cost.

The issue is cost....not services provided.

No one is accusing the City of Naperville of not providing good services to the residents. We are simply asking them to be more cost effective....to cut out the fat.

The city is responding. They found a little or a lot of excess fat in 9 fire stations and and will be using it to operate the 10th station instead of hiring 12 more fire fighters and increasing the budget deficit from 11 million to 12 million. Kudos to the City!

All of us are happy...how come you are not happy! What is wrong with eliminating fat and reducing taxes, Mr. Ed?

If you only reap praise on the city for providing you the basic services like drinking water and electricity, you will blow their heads up and they will blow your taxes up in a respective manner. Be careful what you wish for....you sound like the kind of a guy that pays full list price when you buy a car. Most of us like to bargain. We are bargaining with our city to reduce costs and taxes. Does this mean we do not love our city and do not appreciate the services our city provides us. We certainly do! Thank you Naperville but keep reducing costs!

By John Q. Public on November 23, 2008 7:11 PM
Maryann wrote:

"The state wanted decreases each year until the city eliminates the pension deficit in 2033. What does the City of Naperville do? Falls 8.4 million dollars deeper in the hole. Yes, they go the complete opposite way they were asked to go! Can anyone believe this?"

Maryann,

I think the huge downturn in the financial markets probably accounts for most if not all of the increase in the pension deficit this past year.

-JQP


===================================================================

I have to take issue with your analysis. If what you are saying is true why did we have nearly a 5.5 million deficit last year when the Dow Jones, Standard and Poor and Nasdaq all reached record levels. Keep in mind our $61.4 million pension deficit accumulated mostly during the longer bull markets and not the shorter bear markets. This is on onging defict that began before you moved to town, Mr. John Q. Public.

I really think the issue is that the 9.45% we are collecting from the fire fighters and the 21.16% in matching contribution funds we are collecting from the taxpayers just can not subsidize fire fighters that retire at age 51 and expect a 75% retirement pension for the next 40 or 50 years. The numbers just don't pan out!

These deficits have existed for a long time and get worse each year. Albeit they do get much worse in a declining stock market as opposed to a rising stock market. But they appear to get worse in both.

This to me indicates a situation of unaffordability. Keep in mind very few fire fighters are retired due to the small size of the city 30 years ago. When you finally have 200 retirees in the near future, you will see the sh$t hit the ceiling fan as it did in the auto industry.

The auto industry now has more retirees than workers. The burden is insurmountable. Bankrupty is looming without a federal bail-out. Even a federal bail-out will only delay bankruptcy. None of the CEO could promise they would not be back for more tin can hand outs as they understand the mess they are in....private jets or no private jets. They would love bankruptcy but they are afraid comsumers will not buy cars from a bankrupt company as it may not have to honor its warranties. So they want to bust the unions but somehow not the warranties which would bust the auto companies. They are in a catch 22 situation if you will.

Besides pension the UAW even requires these auto manufacturers to pay their union workers 95% of their wages when they are idling or shut down. And if they lay off a worker before his retirement age, they have to give him or her a $105,000 severence pay besides his full pension. I think unions with their power have brought nothing but chaos to our country.

Now we see that the police and firefighter unions have bought chaos to the Naperville taxpayers.

This all has nothing to do with the Napergate Man or Napergatians. None of the city supporters want to address the very serious problem facing our town and its residents. They change the subject to the Napergate Man because they do not want to deal with the serious problems affecting the Naperville Texpayers.

I wish the city supporters would be mature and focus on the issues.

Even if the Napergatians bring up the issues, they are legitimate issues. Again I see the messenger being attacked instead of the message being dealt with.

Anyway you slice it, the Napergatians are making some strong points that the city folks are trying to avoid and simply don't want to address.

I would like to see the city supporters focus on the issue at hand instead of calling the Napergate Man a criminal. I just don't see how that helps anything especailly since it is so untrue! It simply tarnishes the credibility of the accuser. He loses all his credibility when he attempts to blog. A good example is Ken! I don't think anyone takes him seriously. He is just considered the resident clown on these blogs and he is not even funny!

Brianna, I want you to thank god that you live in such a wonderful city as the City of Naperville in the USA. You turned your water on today and the water was clean, you didn't get sick drinking the water, you flushed the toilet, you didn't use an outhouse, you drove to work in a regulated manner, on streets paved and marked properly, your house wasn't vandalized over night and you felt safe and sound walking in your neighborhood, no one shot at you, no one tried to rob you, there were no murders, you flipped the light switch and there was electricity, no rolling blackouts for us today, ahh, we truly live in a great country in an awesome city. A city where developers still want to invest in us, a place where outsiders still want to visit, a place where there's a certain specialness.

All of these things have a price tag Brianna. A city needs revenue to operate and the standards we hold so dear and true for our fair city come with a cost.

Who and what are the "establishment"? Seriously, I want to know. There's a new city manager who has only been at the city for 5 years, that can't be establishment, the mayor? everyone loves the mayor, that can't be establishment, the council? a number of seats are up for the next election, Councilmen Krause and Fursteneau are going to be the most senior members now? SO WHO IS THE ESTABLISHMENT? Who else is running the city that we don't know about? Come on conspiracy theorists, aka Napergatians.

I do believe that the school district has their hand in the pot and needs to take some responsibility for the tax bills.

Two observations:

1. We can all breath a sigh of relief that Marshall will be out in a few days as Acting City Manager. Good riddance!

2. With the current budget deficit this year and the even larger deficit coming next year and the year after I wonder how long even the City of Naperville will be able to continue to afford the luxury of an Assistant City Manager?

Isn't it a hoot that it was Ken other conspiracy theorists of his ilk who coined the term Napergatian?

Now any issue where the conspiracy theorists take a position... anyone with a differing view is automatically labeled a Napergatian!

Occasionally a post from the conspiracy theorists is good for chuckle or two, but lately most of their dribble has been pretty pathetic. The funniest part is that they actually believe there are others outside their little conspiracy theorists group who agree with them. What a hoot!

ROTFLMAO

Brianna. Wow...A 5% raise in times where others are loosing jobs seems pretty good. Sounds to me like you are possibly an employee of one of the school districts to be so upset over my simple question. You left out your response on waste in the schools. There is more than likely a cap on that too.right?

Maryann wrote:

"The state wanted decreases each year until the city eliminates the pension deficit in 2033. What does the City of Naperville do? Falls 8.4 million dollars deeper in the hole. Yes, they go the complete opposite way they were asked to go! Can anyone believe this?"

Maryann,

I think the huge downturn in the financial markets probably accounts for most if not all of the increase in the pension deficit this past year.

-JQP

Maryann, I'm glad to see you are here in all the typical Napergatian Fashion. Starting right off with the name calling as usual. Really, if you want any credibility, you should start by acting like adults, not attacking and calling names anyone who dares question your imagined powers.

There is nothing wrong with your mission, just the way you go about it. You and the rest of the group are living in the past, hoping your hero comes out of what you call a retirement, I see as not wanting to have anything to do with a bunch of spoiled bullies. There is no leadership, no publicity, no plans, just rhetoric and attacks. No government body is going to give a radical bullying group any credence what so ever.

If you want to have an affect, pick a leader, tone down the rhetoric/attacks, pick the points you as group take issue with and act like a mature group of adults. Then and only then, will the people outside the minute remaining group of Napergatians take you seriously and want to jump on board. Until then, as a whole, you are nothing more than entertainment to the small group of bloggers who haven't been chased away by you antics.


Wasn't the last time the napergatians were effective in the last century? All they can do now is say we might come back, maybe, well, if someone else organizes us and puts up the money...

What a joke. No wonder why the napergate man gave up on his followers.

Thanks for spelling out the plain facts in plain English, Maryann!

Maybe the boys will finally get it.

Governemnt waste and high taxation will no longer be tolerated in this city and I think the election booths will be overflowing in April.

Napergatians and Napervillians will be going out in mass numbers to outst and end Establishment Rule once and for all. It has become not only intolerable but unaffordable. All dictatorships have to come to an end some time!

Yes, you can run for office. But if you dare to speak after you are elected the Establishment will Censure you...that is dictatorship disguised as democrary. That is a wolf in sheep's clothes!

Wilber,

The schools have a statutory limit and a 5% cap on tax increases. They are under State Rule. Most years they are below the cap and in the 3-4% range of tax increases. They are doing a great job except for a few top administrators who arrange to get promotions right before retirement to jack up their retirement pensions...that issue is being investigated by the Dept. of Justice at the current time. We should be hearing in the next 6 months and some administrators may be living in a 6 by 4 cell....sooner than you think.

The schools operate in crumbling buildings in District 203.

The city increases taxes 20% per year. 4 times the statuory limit allowed by state rule. City Hall and the Police Station are Taj Mahal like buildings.

For you to be supporting 20% annual increases indicates you are a city employee benefitting from the outrageousness and excesses of City Hall! No one in his right mind supports a city that needs to increase taxes 20% per year especially when their pension deficit got worse by 8.4 million as Maryann just noted.

When was the last time you had a cup of coffee, Wilber, instead of a 6 pack of beer. You need to read up before you write to make sense. Drinking before writing is not sobering!

Hey Boys,

I think you boys are ignoring the facts provided by CM Bob. He has now fully disclosed that are pension deficit increased 8.4 million in the last year alone.

I don't see why you are all ranting against the Napergatians who are telling us the truth.

The state wanted decreases each year until the city eliminates the pension deficit in 2033. What does the City of Naperville do? Falls 8.4 million dollars deeper in the hole. Yes, they go the complete opposite way they were asked to go! Can anyone believe this?

You can rant all you want against the Napergatians. They have had a lot of success in past elections when they chose to participate. In one election they took 4 out of 4 seats. It might happen again due to the sorry state of affairs in our city despite you all being in denial or benefitting somehow as you may all be corrupt city officials, for all I know, who got us in this mess. No one else would support such a mess that also includes an 11 million operating budget deficit that will get worse next year as the economy contnues to tumble and sales tax from the downtown and other areas of town falters even further.

Maybe it is time to tax the downtown landlords who got away with murder when they got the city council to pass the expense of their parking requirements to the financially stretched out taxpayers. Time they find a way to build their own garages above or under their buildings as takes place in Chicago and other large cities. They claimed they could not afford it while building 100 million dollar buildings...lol...so we the simple folks can afford to pay it for them. What justice!!! What insanity!!! Only in Naperville can such atrocities happen with a few anonymous whackos on a blog site supporting such unfairness!

Why isn't there more quetions and concern going out to the school district concerning their accountability on our monies. They are responsible for over 70% of our tax bill and I've yet to hear any outrage over salaries,pensions,waste.. My children are out of the system yet my portion of taxes continue to rise for somone elses benefit. At least I know that my taxes that go to the City are being used to benefit all residents. Considering the great services we recieve in this town, It's money well spent.

Very well said Fred...

Anonymous-

FYI----I believe Bob Marshall has a Masters in Public Administration....

I hope you get up the school boards butt as much as you do the citys!!!! The schools get the majority of our tax dollars. You are a big joke who should use REAL numbers not the ones that suit your rant.

That's hilarious that YOU think the city listens to you!!!
LMAO

Napergatians ??? What the H--l is a napergatians. Sounds like a self-proclaimed, loud mouth. Get a life....

Well said, Fred.

All what publicity regarding double dipping? These blogs?

Anon, you really give yourself and the handful of self appointed citizen watchdogs known as Napregatians too much credit. Most who read these blogs, outside your little cheering section, find much humor in your legend in your own mind status. The majority of residents don't even know your little group exists.

Also your idle threats against home rule are hilarious. Just what are you going to do to abolish it? I believe it would take a vote, and I doubt the less than 1% of the voters that you have would change anything.

The city did not pick Marshall because they did not want to deal with all the publicity about DOUBLE DIPPING. Whether it is legal or not, it stinks worse than a skunk that a guy can retire from an organization, collect a huge pension from that same organization, and come back and work for that same organization and collect another $175,000 per year while collecting his $86,000 pension.

Of course, it will still be happening. He will still be DOUBLE DIPPING but not in the massive limelight as he was as the pro-tem manager....he will now be milking the taxpayer while hidden inside of a closet. I think the Napergatians forced the hand of the city, not to chose Marshall in the hopes of ending the negative publicity. Chalk one up for the Napergatians!

Nothing really changes though. We have a broken pension system that allows the loopholes to scam the taxpayers. The city and state both must step up to the plate and admit their parts in this scam to milk the taxpayers. State legislatures including Darlene Senger need to take action to stop these shenanigans by the establishment to enrich and entitle those in power by allowing them to DOUBLE DIP legally.....how shameful!!!

Public officials were once willing to work for less due to dedication to public service and concern for the community. Nowadays, public officials work for the money and the benefits. That want hand-outs despite knowing the taxpayer is drained.

The Senate challenged the Big Three CEO of the automakers to step up and work for a dollar a year as Lee Iaccoco once did for Chrysler. They were not even getting a pension......but due to their poor perfomance and request for a bail-out. Our spineless council members were afraid to step up to the plate and challenge Mr. Marshall to work for a $1 a year since he was collecting a great pension while dumping the city into an 11 million operating budget deficit combined with a 60 million pension fund deficit.

Yes, the City of Naperville made the better choice. The new manager is more qualified and earned his wings. He has an MBA with emphasis in accounting and finance and that is what the city needs to get us out of the mess. Mr. Marshall was never qualified for the job. He was a police officer for 30 years. He had no serious experience in running a city the size of Naperville that was overextended in debt and deficits.

Marshall's connections most probably got him the temporary job. He did not excell in his temporary job and the city council realized you can not give positions to people due to their connections...you have to give them to qualified individuals....highly qualified individuals.

Let us see if this new City Manager has the courage to reduce salaries of fire fighters and police officers during the next union negotiations. Let us see if he can reduce the pension deficit one year from now. Marshall failed and increased the pension deficit during his reign in office...to the tune of up to 7 million.

Let us see if this MBA realizes that unless changes take place immediately, the pension fund deficit will get worse and not better. He needs to understand that he has a deadline to bring this pension deficit to 0 by the year 2033. Hew needs to chip away at the defict year by year and never let it get worse. Any increase in the pension deficit during his reign should be grounds for immediate termination. He needs to take us in the right direction and not the wrong direction as Mr. Marshall took us.

The taxpayers will no longer tolerate excuses such as the state needs to take the blame. The state does not dictate salaries or raises or promotions before retirement. Those are dicatated by the city and affect the pension cost more than anything the state can do or does!

Anyway, all eyes will be on the new City Manager. We wish him luck. I hope he has his eyes on the ball. Any attempt to increase pension contributions by taxpayers in excess of the current 21.16% will result in an immediate call for his resignation. Let us see if he can solve our budget disaster without taxing us a penny more. That is the sign of a good city manager.

A city manager who solves his budget problems by taxing the taxpayers to death is a failure who does not belong in the job. Anyone can get the budget to balance by taxing....a dumb idiot can do that. We are not paying all this money to a dumb idiot. We are paying it to a well educated and experienced man who we expect to deliver. Let us hope he delivers.....

And he should honor STATE RULE LIMITS on tax increases even though we are a HOME RULE TOWN. In case he does not know those limits are capped at 5% increases by the state. If he can not limit our tax increases to 5% or less, I suggest he submit his resignation to the City Council immediatetly.

The Napergatians are salivating to bring the City of Naperville to STATE RULE again and abolish HOME RULE. Any missteps by the new Manager will result in HOME RULE being ablolished as quickly as an eye can be blinked. Let us hope he understands the consequences of messing with the taxpayers. The consquences will be a call for his RESIGNATION. We the taxpayers have had enough and can take no more!

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This page contains a single entry by Naperville Sun editors published on November 22, 2008 3:12 PM.

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