City dismissed from Furstenau lawsuit

Thank God, a step in the right direction for a change.

CF and the officer should shake hands and say sorry to each other for any part they each may have had in the ordeal.

Win/Win and everyone saves face and the taxpayers save money.

A kindergartner could tell you which is less, $130k or $700k. I can think of 570,000 different things the difference in what the city spent to save face could have been spent on.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but initially didn't Furstenau want nothing more than an apology? Only in Naperville is the ego of city officials worth $570k.

It's not like the city needed the money anyway, with such a massive budget surplus and all... ;)

Keyboard Rambo,
This has ALWAYS been about firstenau wanting money. When he first approached the city he wanted an apology... and a CASH settlement! This case is not looking good for him and I for one am glad the city is fighting this. This guy is what's wrong with politicians today. He puts himself above those that he is supposed to be serving! The city is only defending itself and the others in this suit from a greed driven frivolous lawsuit. Is the city to just settle all silly lawsuits it gets named in? That would be a bad way to go about things from a taxpayer standpoint in the long run! Remember, Furstenau is the ONLY one who can make this whole thing go away.

It is not easy to beat City Hall even if you have a case.

Yes, the Napergate Man beat City Hall 3 times in the court system but he is not an ordinary individual. He documented his daily movements and had a video tape of his alleged incident to prove his innocence that the City of Naperville was not initially aware of it. Even when they became aware of the truth, they proceeded towards the lynching at a cost of millions to taxpayers knowing he was innocent.

The lesson learned here is if you don't have a video tape or extremely documented and factual evidence, it is almost impossible to beat City Hall. The court system will always lean to favor government over any individual.

No one knows what happened in the Furstenau Case. He may be guilty or innocent. Unfortunatley, none of those bars on Chicago Ave. had outdoor video surviellance which could have revealed the truth. I believe he would not dare punch a cop but I was not there. Logic would indicate he would be arrested on the spont if he punched a cop. Apparently, we have a politcially corrupt police department if he truly punched a cop and they were afraid to arrest him because he was a politician. A politician does not have legal rights that exceed those of an individual.

We have no choice but to accept the City is innocent in this DF case as the court ruled. Just like we had no choice but to accept the City was guilty in the Napergate Man's case as the courts ruled in his 3 cases.

Fair is fair! This time the City won! Give them credit! Or maybe they were lucky since no video tape existed as in the Napergate Man case.

Hopefully the City will seek reimbursement for its share of the legal fees under 42 USC 1988(b)

(b) Attorney’s fees
In any action or proceeding to enforce a provision of sections 1981, 1981a, 1982, 1983, 1985, and 1986 of this title, title IX of Public Law 92–318 [20 U.S.C. 1681 et seq.], the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 [42 U.S.C. 2000bb et seq.], the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 [42 U.S.C. 2000cc et seq.], title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 [42 U.S.C. 2000d et seq.], or section 13981 of this title, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party....

Sorry, it didn't paste right. Here is the entire thought:

(b) Attorney’s fees
In any action or proceeding to enforce a provision of sections 1981, 1981a, 1982, 1983, 1985, and 1986 of this title, title IX of Public Law 92–318 [20 U.S.C. 1681 et seq.], the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 [42 U.S.C. 2000bb et seq.], the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 [42 U.S.C. 2000cc et seq.], title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 [42 U.S.C. 2000d et seq.], or section 13981 of this title, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party,

This is a serious question, when are you Napergate people going to stop dwelling in the past and accomplishing something? It seems pretty apparent that the Napergate Man doesn't really want anything to do with all this insanity. He seems to live a happy life with his family now out of the public eye. Why do you guys feel the need to drag him in to EVERYTHING?

So you think THE MAN is out to get all of you, you want to bring down "the establishment", awesome.

Has anyone spoken to Basim Esmail since the 1990's.

Does Basim Esmail have any idea he is worshiped on this blog?

Why don't you guys do something more productive like circulate petitions, speak during the city council public forum, or anything else other than endlessly obsess over someone whose glory days have long passed. You don't need to spend money on advertising, word of mouth goes a long way when you awaken public awareness... but again; this requires EFFORT outside of being anonymous on the internet.

The best way to rage against the machine and bring down the evil empire is ACTION, not sitting around at Dunkin Donuts talking about the good ol' days when the Napergate Man was still around. All you Napergate people seem to get so worked up over everything, I really just can't wrap my head around why that emotion you all have ONLINE towards shutting down the establishment doesn't translate to the real world at all.

Put your energy to good use doing something that will result in a change of the system instead of posting on the blog site very few people read. I'm sure Mr. Esmail would tell you the same thing.

Are any of you Napergate people running for city council?

Why not? That is the absolute easiest and most direct way to change things. Getting on the ballot only requires 150 signatures. Surely you can find that many people to sign for you...

I know it's easier to just complain anonymously on the internet, but you'd surprised how far even the slightest amount of action will go in real life.

To: Anonymous on December 29, 2008 5:23 PM

Per the article ad the court case, it wasn't a punch:

"The civil rights lawsuit stems back to a Jan. 1, 2006, arrest of Furstenau, for which he was later acquitted of all misdemeanor battery charges for allegedly shoving a police officer with the back of his hand during an argument about towing cars from Chicago Avenue before the start of the city's 175th anniversary parade."

Key-BO,
Napergaters don't take action because the four of them would have to stop hiding behind blogs in order for them to do that!!

Keyboard Rambo,

I think you got a little carried away. Anonymous was just making a valid point how video tape in this case was missing while in the Napergate Case it was available.

He was just comparing 2 cases.

As far as whether this blog site is effective or not effective, only tme will tell.

I suspect the Naperville Sun will tie this blog site to articles about candidates and it will be very helpful in helping voters make their choices one day in the near future.

One thing that many of us don't know or maybe don't realize is there may be thousands of readers for this blog site while the posters only are in the hundreds since inception.

For example the print edition only has an average of 3 letters to the editor, but 16,200 subscribers. Thus many more people read than have the passion to write which can be time consuming for many with families, jobs, and Christmas presents to buy and return.

I believe this Blog Site is the wave of the future. Another blogger scolded a Napergatian for daring to claim this blog site was not powerful or effective. He gave many examples of newspapers getting ideas from various blog sites and running with the story. Blogosphere he stated was the wave of the future. I agree with him.

I think the Napergatians are trying hard to inform the residents in this town that the city has over 70 million dollars in deficits that could lead to bankrruptcy. They are trying to pressure the city to stop the Library Deck so we can avoid bankruptcy. Yes, the word is not getting out as strongly as it should because the Sun refuses to take this story and run with it. The Sun could make it a big deal and get voters all riled up if they wanted to. However, the Sun which has very old establishment leanings has chosen not to blow the story of the massive deficit up even though it originated from a credible sitting Council Man.

You really can't blame the Napergatians for trying. I am sure they are campaigning in their neighborhoods. I am sure they will vote when the time comes. Maybe they will even bring sufficient numbers to the toll booths. People showed in the Presidnetial Campaign that they want CHANGE. The Napergatians offer CHANGE.

The Napergate Man had a combination of unusual resources that the current Napergatians do not have. But can you really blame them for trying to infuence the town through this blog site. Whether they are successful or not does not matter. What matters is they are giving it 100% effort. I hope when they return from their holiday vacations they will bombard this blog site like they once did a while back.

Sometimes it takes patience to see results, KeyBoard Rambo. Remember it took the Napergate Man at least 5 years of pounding before anyone took him seriously or even listened to him. There is a lesson to be learned here that things don't come easy in this world. You have to work hard to get where the Napergate Man got. The Napergatians have only been pounding for 2 short years. I believe they should continue to be persistant and relentless and in the end it will all work out. They need to be steadfast. Usually those who are steadfast end up accomplishing their goals.

The process would bare better fruit if the Sun pushed some of the Napergatians' agendas. The Sun has been reluctant. It was also reluctant in the Napergate Man days and he pushed his agenda by paying for 100 full page Napergate Ads. That was very costly and you can not blame the Napergatians for not having that kind of money in this disastrous economy. Most Napergatians are middle class citizens trying to make ends meet. They need to save money to pay for their increased taxes and not for full page ads....unless they want to be 551 on the foreclosure list in town.

I think they are being wise in saving their money to pay for higher taxes instead of spending it on expensive ads. Why should they be drunken sailors like our city officials who spent 70 million more than they have and got us in the ditch? These days 100 full page ads in the Naperville Sun could cost $150,000. That is not chump change. And just like their is no guarantee of the effectiveness of this blog site, there is also no guarantee of the effectiveness of the print edition. I suspect more and more people are getting their news from the internet and not the print edition.

I think when the Naperville Sun ties stories form this blog site to the print edition and vice versa, we will see a big difference and possibly an increase of readership for both.

If you recall the Sun once ran an article on the Napergate Man and tied it to this blog site. Shorty thereafter, 300 Napergatians popped up. If they had done a few follow up articles on Napergatians and their agenda and continued to tie them to the blog site, I suspect a few thousand would have showed up.

This is a learning process for both the Napergatians and the Naperville Sun. It has not been fine tuned yet and the Esablishment remains firmly in control at the moment getting us deeper in the hole. I think it is just a matter of time when frustration finally boils over and the Napergatians can generate a grass roots movement that would rival the one the Napergate Man built over a decade ago. Be patient, Keyboard Rambo.

Rather than worrying about the Napergatians and the history of the Napergate Man, I would have liked to see you propose some solutions to the 70 million and counting deficts we have. While you complain about others, one has to notice the irony with your choice of a handle.

And finally if you truly believed the Napergatians were ineffective, you would never have written your post to slam them. You obviously feel they are very effective and are trying to neutralize them with your commnets. Logic usually make sense!

"People showed in the Presidnetial Campaign that they want CHANGE. The Napergatians offer CHANGE."

It all comes down to:

Who are your candidates for Council?

Standing up for what is right is an example we teach our children every day, even if the cost is greater. This surely shows the side-effects of our legal system in which attorneys can over-reach for the deep pockets when they're working on a contingency.

Joe,

I honestly think you would make a great council man.

Napergatians are not biased for their own.

They just want to stop government waste and decrease taxes.

If you run, you got my vote. I like your agenda that you proposed on another thread. You seem to be very level headed. Honestly!

Go for it, Joe!

By Taxpayer on December 29, 2008 5:42 PM
Sorry, it didn't paste right. Here is the entire thought:

(b) Attorney’s fees
In any action or proceeding to enforce a provision of sections 1981, 1981a, 1982, 1983, 1985, and 1986 of this title, title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 [42 U.S.C. 2000d et seq.], or section 13981 of this title, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party,

===================================================================

Taxpayer,

Reality and what a code says are 2 different things. The case is over and the judge did not award the city anything in financial compensation.

If the Judge was awarding anything, he would award 5k or 10k at most....what the case was worth in legal fees? But that if it was detemerined to be completely frivolous which it was not since the Judge let it move forward a bit before dismissing it.

The city wastefully spent 700k on a silly case and no Judge is going to award any money for someone's stupidity. Plus this same Judge let it proceed to this point as he felt it may have some merit and then changed his mind and dismissed it. The Judge made the decision to take it to the next level and the Judge is immune from being sued.

Plus, even though the Judge is required to review the case in 30 days per the request of DF's Attorney, the chance the Judge will reverse himself is less than one tenth of 1% of a probability....if that. So the City of Naperville can be considered the victor.

The case is over.....let us move forward!

Maybe the Napergate Man won legal fees since his cases were more black and white and went very long ways in the appeal process after administrative and low level courts found him innocent. Since the city appealed and fought frivlously and needlessly, I would not be surprised if higher courts awarded him his legal fees plus punitive and compensatory damages. However, I don't know as it seems like the case was finally settled in secrecy and sealed. It is believed Mayor George Pradel put his foot down in closed sessions of the City Council and did not let the 2 ongoing collateral cases go to the respective Supreme Courts. He should be commended for saving the taxpayers tons of money. The current Mayor had nothing to do with the Napergate Fiasco but found a way to end it.

Many cases are sealed when a defendent gets a large judgment from a government body. It is a way of hiding the damage from the taxpayers. In the Napergate Case, the city claimed they lost all their records rather than tell the taxpayers what the damage was. Editor Tim West violated his passiveness towards the Establishment and went after the City of Naperville for the information when the case was over and the City either told him they had no records or lost the records. (The Napergatians quoted the Sun article but I can not remember in which of the 14 Napergate Threads it is located) The prevailing folklore is they were buried with Mayor Sam McCrane in his grave. Maybe, the City felt he was responsible for the mess and buried the records with him. Again that is not factual but folklore!

Also, I am not an attorney and therefore will not be able to answer legal questions. I am just an old man who likes to read a lot.

Howard,

Thank you for the kind words, but my hat is going into another ring other than Naperville City Council this April because I have tried other avenues to get elected officials to see another point of view other than the respective 'establishment' and it's been fruitless. Time to roll up the sleeves; as it's described.

Original Joe,

I never thought I would see the day a Napergatian would endorse you. I want to second Howard's motion. I really wish you would run for the city council. It is nice to know you see the frustration that we see dealing with this City Council. They are really set in their ways.

I think to a great extent Napergatians are giving up and want to see City Officials self-destruct. Sometimes that is the only solution. Let them do what they want until they finally realize they hit rock bottom or the residents see that they had been taken to the cleaners.

I am amazed that city officials are taking some corrective action such as postponing the library deck for 5 years...not as good as cancelling it all together but better than building it now when we have a 10-11 million dollar operation budget deficit and are in the worse depression since 1933.

I think the pension mess is like the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. There is no solution. Council members know that police and fire fighters, their families, their friends and relatives can deliver an excess of 1000 votes in any election. And unlike the general population, they vote in high numbers as there is a lot at stake for them.....especially in their retirement pensions.

I think something is going to have to crack in 5 years. Will a Naperville Taxpayer who owns a $500,000 home be willing to pay $20,000 in taxes? Can he/she afford to? If not, will he finally wake up and have his vote counted. The State and City are equally responsible for the pension mess. The city for paying more than they can afford and the state for setting a 75% pay-out ratio based on the last day's pay. And really no one knows if Naperville gives last day promotions as is common in the Lisle-Woodridge Fire Dept. to jack up pensions to the point it equals their salary.

You would think the police and fire fighters would avoid these end of career promotions so the pension system remains viable. But what I see is each employee wanting to keep the tradition. Let us end with the next guy...not me!

I do like your proposal OJ that we grandfather the existing POs and FFs and reduce the salaries of new recruits. Does it hurt for our Chiefs to try to recruit new employees at 40k? If that does not work you can try to recruit at a starting salary of 50k. With the unemployment rate being so high, I would think people would be willing to work for less.

I just don't know how we will be one day be able to support 400 retired POs and FFs, if we can't even support 60 retirees these days. Sometimes I wish CM Bob would ask the City Manager to explain this concept to us. How the funding works? But it does not take a CPA to realize since our pension fund deficit is getting worse year by year instead of better, something is just not adding up.

The State told us we have to balance in 2033 and instead of knocking a few million off each year, we are adding a few million each year to our pension defict. Go figure!

By Original Joe on December 29, 2008 9:16 PM
"People showed in the Presidnetial Campaign that they want CHANGE. The Napergatians offer CHANGE."

It all comes down to:

Who are your candidates for Council?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Joe,

I was a neighbor of the Napergate Man when he lived in Olive Trees and also an activist in his movement for many years especially duing the liquor proceedings. He never hand picked candidates. He religiously attended every forum with notebook and pencil in hand. He evaluated all the candidates. He was not shy to call them. He met with them after the forums. He consulted with others about the existing candidates and made his choices from the existing pool. I think trying to install hand picked Napergatians would have bordered on cronyism. He was not that kind of person. He wanted the best candidates. Not his friends, relatives, or followers. He was the very opposite of Mayor Daley of Chicago. Just a different kind of person who liked to be as above board as possible. That to some extent explains the iconic status he acheived in town and the legacy he left behind.

I don't live in Naperville anymore and will not profess to know what is going on. However, if the Napergatians are planning on following in the footsteps of the Napergate Man, all they have to do is attend the forums and study the candidates.

Will endorsing them on this blog site instead of in a full page ad work? That is the 64,000 question that no one can answer. But Barack Obama was able to collect more donations using the internet than conventional means. So maybe it will work. Money is an issue these days with everyone and I don't see the New Napergatians able to pay for full page ads.

But maybe the Napergatians can get together and endorse their candidates on this Blog Site. Will that be effective? Not sure! But if Host Chris is willing to take their endorsements and put them in the print edition that would make them more effective. They have never gotten equal time or space by the media in the past. I would like to see that change one day. Maybe during this election.

I think we are at a point between internet and print. It is not clear if we are half way or less. One thing for sure, is the Naperville Sun print edition is not read like in the Napergate Days. There was almost no internet those day except for a Napergate Web Site set up by the Napergate Man for his supporters. He also provided them with an e-mail address for communication. So even though the internet was in its infancy, he did not want to leave one stone unturned in missing out on a single voter. Every voter counted to him.

I am hoping this blog site will one day become very well read. If that happens, the New Napergatians will become effective as the Old Napergatians were. It is a trial and error. When former Host Ted posted that 100,000 views per week, I personally was in disbelief and thought we would have 500,000 views per week in 2 or 3 years.

Since Naperville Sun Editors never talk about views anymore, I suspect this blog site has not taken off as expected even though better than any other blog site by a sister paper. Hopefully, they can find the catalyst that will ignite it. My gut feeling is they got to tie the print edition with this blog site in a much stronger manner before newspapers become obsolete. This may be their last chance. They must act now or it may be too late tomorrow.

Google has estabished an empire on the Internet. It can be done. Maybe the Sun can offer rewards(gift certificates) for most blogs, longest blogs, funniest blogs, best handles, most insightful post, most entertaining post and whatever else to get people more interested in bloggin. Just like you have to push for subscriptions, you have to push for bloggin.

I think when the Sun tied that front page Napergate Article in the Sun with the blog site 2 years ago, they showed how effective they can be in bringing readers of the print edtion to blog. It worked. They just need to be more persistant, more creative and do great articles that interest people and tie to the blog site. Since the Napergate Man never got any print in the old Naperville Sun without paying for it, I think it came as a shock to the community when that front page article ran. I drove all the way from Yorkville to get my copies after getting a phone call from an old friend.

Anyway, I wish the Naperville Sun luck. I see that they have truly changed and are no longer biased. Am I surprised...yes! Only because I thought the Naperville Sun would never really change until Editor Tim West retired. Maybe, he is no longer the primary decison maker which allowed the change.

By Keyboard Rambo on December 29, 2008 6:08 PM

Put your energy to good use doing something that will result in a change of the system instead of posting on the blog site very few people read. I'm sure Mr. Esmail would tell you the same thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Keyboard Rambo,

How do you know very few people read this blog site? Have you spoken to Host Chris privately and he told you so?

How do you know Mr. Esmail would tell the Napergatians the same thing? Do you know him!

I suspect if this blog site had very few readers as you allege, the Naperville Sun would shut it down. They are not going to go through all this work for a few readers. They have better things to do.

You can never tell number of readers based on number of bloggers.

Even if we only have 50,000 views per week, that could translate to 5000 readers if each one views about 10 pages. Who knows what will happen during elections? Maybe Host Chris gives each candidate his pwn thread and this blog site takes off.

Each candidate could present his agenda in the subject location of the thread. Voters could comment or ask him or her questions. Maybe Host Chris can find a way to let candidates moderate their own threads by giving them a special password for their personal thread.

We are in the infancy of this Blogoshere World. I think it has tons of potential. Your statement that very few people read it, are unsubstantiated. I am surprised Host Chris would allow you to make such comments unchallenged.

I hope Host Chris gives us a better idea as to how this blog site is doing and what we can do to make sure it succeeds if it is not already a success. Maybe we can call our friends one day and tell them the Candidates can all be found on this blog site. You can learn anything you want and ask them questions live at certain hours.

I just see a lot of potential for this blog site. Let us be optimisitic. Keyboard Rambo seems to be a pessimist who criticizes others for being defeatist while he appears to be a defeatist himself.

By Keyboard Rambo on December 29, 2008 6:08 PM

Has anyone spoken to Basim Esmail since the 1990's.

Does Basim Esmail have any idea he is worshiped on this blog?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I see Basim Esmail many times per year during the nice weather months while he is walking his dog Abby in my subdivision. While it seems like he is retired from his prior public life, he does still care very much about this town.

I don't know if he reads this blog site, but I know he reads the Naperville Sun that he occassionally buys at that infamous Dunkin Donnuts. One of my discussions with him was about the library parking deck. He was very concerned about the effect it would have on higher taxation to residents and businesses. He does own a plaza and he does not want to see his tenants taxed to death as these hefty real estate taxes are passed through in plazas to the tenants. He also owns a home and another business or two in town. So I can tell you he was very against this library deck and the high taxes that would result on his own home, businesses and plaza. And of course he was concerned about the resultant effect on every Napervillians' taxes. He realizes the more homes that foreclose, the more business that file for bankruptcy, the more the rest of us have to chip in to keep the City of Naperville vibrant and financially sound. Plus he felt as most Napergatians that this library deck was also not needed. Also that the specific area was too scenic to be destroyed with a library deck. So we can still get his opinion and input privately if he is not willing to give it publicly. I know this information is not new and I am not revealing any secrets as he expressed this same information to his friend and Chinese neighbor Dor a while back and she posted this information on this Blog Site......or I believe it was her daughter that posted it who was able to write much better since Dor was born in the old country.

So, yes the Napergate Man still speaks to many residents privately during his dog walks. But I don't think he wants to go back to the hectic life he had before or be under the microscope again. I think he is enjoying and appreciating his quiet life. After what he had been through, it is very understandable! Life is short and it is nice to go from phase to phase without being stuck in one phase all your life.

Does he know how people feel about him? Yes, he knows that the residents of Huntington Estates and Pembroke Commons are very thankful to him for running all those Napergate Ads at his expense to help in the battle of Spring Green. And of course he knows we are thankful to him for the rallies he organized, the 3500 signature petitions he had filled for us in his liquor stores, and all the City Council meetings he attended and spoke at. He very much knows he is considered a special citizen and his past efforts are very much appreciated by many if not most Naperville Residents.

Maybe next Spring, I will try to ask him what he thinks of this massive pension fund deficit. I know in the old days he hated any government waste that would result in higher taxes. As another blogger said he was very upset with the legal department in those Napergate days. He felt they dragged his case way too long for nearly a decade costing him and taxpayers way too much money.

Back on subject. Would the Napergate Man be upset that the City of Naperville spent 700,000 dollars on a "he said, he said" case that never got to first base? I believe he would. He only spent 75,000 in legal fees fighting the City of Naperville for nearly a decade. It was a lengthy battle that went to many lateral and vertical courts and lasted years. One has to wonder how he could do all that for 75k and win while the City of Naperville spent $700,000 on the DF case that was dismissed without ever having reached a jury. It seems like he made the effort to shop for attorneys and bargain with them....something the City of Naperville did not do. That has to be part of the reason we are having operating budget deficits.

Just for the record I did not get the cost from the Napergate Man but from Blogger TB who dug it up from his Federal Civil Rights Case which he posted on this site a year or so ago. It may have been only 74k...but around that number!

My guess is since he won his Federal Civil Rights Case by a 2-1 vote in the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals he probably got this 74-75k in legal fees, plus compensatory and punitive damages. But I don't think anyone really knows as the settlement appears to have been secret and sealed for reasons unknown to me and most bloggers.

I think this DF case is completely different and the City of Naperville will not be able to collect any legal fees from DF. On the other hand do we want the City to file a lawsuit against DF that will cost us another 700k to collect the 10k it should have cost the city. If the city decides to file suit which I believe is unwise, I hope the City of Naperville does due diligence and makes sure DF is worth 700k before suing him for 700k. Also they better find an attorney that will do it for a contingency fee so the taxpayers are not milked again. Another heist on the Naperville Taxpayers will be utterly intolerable.

Maryann --

Your theory assumes that the NPD and NFD employees live and vote in Naperville. Many of them do not.

It's good to see you embracing a grandfathered structure, but I don't know how much you really need to drop the starting salary. Just moving to a 401K-type retirement plan for the new hires would save millions regardless of the salary.

T.B.

So the answer to "What have you accomplished" is "We post here a lot and think Joe should run for city council"?

Really?

...Really?

Out of your supposed 300 members, not one of you could muster the motivation to pick up a packet to run for city council?

I can't really say I'm surprised... Like I said, it's much easier to post anonymously on the internet than actually do anything that matters when you're unhappy about something. You all still keep saying things like "Maybe Host Chris will..." or "Maybe the Sun will publish..."

You can't start any kind of movement by hoping someone else does something.

Is Tricky Dick going to sue the federal judge now? He didnt get his way, so I guess it will be Furstenau v The United States of America.......Scott Huber for US Senate

The deadline for submitting petitions to run for city council has passed. Are there any Napergatians in the 16 (I think) that are actually running?

Can any attorneys out there in the blogosphere interpret this one for us?

Does this mean the the City Manager and the Police Chief are still on the hook for damages and that the City has been excluded from the lawsuit?

If it's a civil rights case, I'm guessing that individuals are still on the hook.

With Burchard gone, that leaves Chief Dial as the last man standing still in local govt?

Does the City's insurance cover their costs in the suit or are we now talking about them loosing everything?

Weren't there others named like the City Attorney?

HELP!

I'm not an attorney. The news reports stated that the City was dismissed. If correct, then I believe that means the lawsuit is going forward -- albeit with one less defendant. If that is correct, then I expect the City will continue to spend big bucks defending its employees. At this point, no one can win. the taxpayers are out big money, the City has an obligation to defend its employees and the councilman has a right to defend his reputation.

In my opinion, this case would never have amounted to anything if it wasn't for bad blood between Furstenau and the police department. It is incredible to think that anyone could assault an officer and not be charged for over a week. If anyone truly assaulted an officer, they'd be introduced to his "billy club" or today, his taser, and be arrested post haste.

The charges were delayed while unknown members of our government debated whether or not charges would hold up and whether or not the cost of losing was worth the gamble. Someone decided it was worth the gamble. They lost. The facts were insufficient to support the charges and now we are all paying the price.

Furstenau's biggest mistake was to dare to question city staff on spending issues. He still does it and he's still resented for it. But, someone needs to question our spending habits and as long as Furstenau is on the council no one else has to do it. I think many of council may secretly appreciate that Dick draws the fire -- I don't think many of our councilmen have the courage to question spending. Watch a meeting or two and see for yourself. It quickly will become obvious who are the few who care about spending and waste and who is ready to rubber stamp everything that is propsed.

The lawsuit's been a marvelous diversion -- the real issues have been forgotten. Now, it's only a question of whether or not Furstenau is wasting taxpayer dollars. He isn't. It would be just as easy for the City to end this as it would be for Furstenau to end it. The City's decision to arrest him was where it started and the City should end it. Now!

Sam,

I still hold the opinion that attempting to interfere with a Police Officer doing his job is what started it. There are proper procedures for contesting the towing that happened. Trying to stop the towing was the error that started the ball rolling, IMO. If there was a procedural error prior to that on the part of the City, that should have been handled by contesting the towing and charges via the normal process. If the City was indeed at fault in failing to legally establish the temporary tow zone, the fines would have been dropped.

DF tried to circumvent the established process. It's like trying to 'prove' your innocence to a speeding ticket while standing on the side of the highway arguing with an officer. That's not the proper time or place to do it. Go to court.

Sam @ 12:18,
How can the City stop this? They are being sued. They can only react to whatever Firstenau and his pinbrained legal team do! Is the city to just "roll over" whenever it gets sued? Do you want te see the line at the corthouse from people waiting to drum up some suit against the city knowing that the city just settles instead of fighting for what is right?
Napergater's,
What are you going to do now that your fearless leader Firstenau is starting to go down the drain? Is it time for you to rally around Doug Krause? Yet another career politician who only wants to move into a higher office. Time for the both of them to move on.

Original Joe:

I can see your point. Furstentau was interfering in a police matter. However, did his actions ever rise to a felony as originally claimed?
I don't think so, but I can accept that you have a different opinion.

Anonymous -- The City can do what they should of done in the beginning --settle the damn case by saying I'm sorry. The fact is that those who support Furstenau will accept the apology, those that don't will claim that the apology was nothing more than a means to stop wasting time and money. I admit that it's a lot harder to accomplish now than it woudl have been months ago, but, in my humble opinion it's still possible. If nothing else, an apology would give the City the high ground.

By Anonymous on December 30, 2008 1:45 PM
Sam @ 12:18pm
Napergater's,
What are you going to do now that your fearless leader Firstenau is starting to go down the drain? Is it time for you to rally around Doug Krause? Yet another career politician who only wants to move into a higher office. Time for the both of them to move on.

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CM Dick Furstenau is a Napergatian. He was endorsed by the Napergate Man in 1995. He failed in that election. The Napergate Man endorsed him again in 1999 and he succeeded in that election. The Napergate Man did not hand pick him. He went to election forums and selected him because of his views on government waste, inefficiency, incompetence, etc. all resulting in high taxation. He has stood up to the establishment and they found ways of punishing him for daring to question their practices of enriching each other.

The Napergate Man also stood up to the establishment and they punished him by revoking his 2 liquor licenses which they obviously control.

I think many people are reading this latest DF hearing wrongfully. All those DF is suing are still on the hook. The city and/or taxpayers are off the hook. The taxpayers won since they will not be liable for the damages. The city police officers have to pay for any potential damages from their own pockets....not city funds!

This was a great decision. What this means is that if the Police Chief and his allegedly offending officers are found guilty, they will have to pay for all the damages from their personal paychecks and not taxpayers hard earned dollars. The city may attempt to pay the damages but the taxpayers can protest as the city is no longer legally liable for the alleged infractions of these police officers. And if they are found guilty of allegedly framing DF, why should the taxpayers and city be liable. The Judge made the right decision and should be commended. Yes, Mr. Collins is upset because the City has much deeper pockets than the Police Chief and the 2 accused officers. He could have squeezed the city for several million. Now all he can do is go after the life savings of these police officers and garnish there wages. Maybe a few hundred thousand instead of a few million.

The current city council may attempt to pay for the damages on behalf of these police officers. In my opinion this would be totally inappropriate and a travesty of justice. Another good reason for us to get new City Council elected who would not be willing to write a check to cover potential infractions by individual police officers who may have been violating city policy.

I think what the Judge was saying is the City of Naperville never asked or required their police dept. to operate in this manner. That these police officers may have broken city rules when allegedly offending DF by attempting to frame him. Thus the city can not be liable because city code does not allow officers to act in such a heavy handed manner.

Framing someone is a serious matter. The City Police framed the Napergate Man and the city was punished. In that case the city was not let off the hook as it seemed like it was the city giving direction to the police. In this DF case the police apparently acted without direction from the city. The police dept. simply did not like Furstenau because he was always demanding that they reduce expenses, overtime and try to be more efficient. Very reminisent of when the Napergate Man went after the legal dept. for its excessive waste and they in turn sent their prosecutor after him in an attempt to neutralize him.

Many bloggers apparently read the first part of the article in the Sun before it was fully posted...including initially myself.

When you read the full article, you see that both DF and the city(taxpayers) won this round. The police chief and his 2 officers lost this round and now have a very good chance of being put on trail before a jury of their peers and be solely responsible for all potential damages both compensatory and punitive that the jury may award DF if he wins.

Let us be patient and see what happens. Again as another blogger stated, it looks very suspicious when a civilian punches a cop and is not arrested for 2 weeks. This I believe is what will lead a jury to convict the police chief and his 2 officers. It is simply not believable that a person who punches a cop would not face immediate arrest. Thus one has to conclude using logic, reason and common sense that Furstenau never punched the cop....as he has always told us. And if Furstenau never punched the cop, the police officer may be guilty of FRAMING Furstenau. Let us see how the jury rules. They will have all the evidence before them. We don't!

Caroline –

Don’t be so quick to take the taxpayers off the hook in this. I think there is ample precedent for the city to pay for representation for their employees if their actions were deemed to be within the scope of their employment. I don’t think the city has to represent them, but I believe they still can.

I’m not sure about damages. Again, the city and their insurance could kick in here so any glee that Chief Dial or any other officers will be paying from their own pockets may be a little premature.

Perhaps an attorney could enlighten us on this or the Sun could do a “Now where do we go” type of story on this? Didn’t Chicago pay to defend John Burge in his previous court appearances (the FOP is paying now) and didn’t Chicago pay the victims for his actions?

T.B.

HEL --

That was a long time ago, but I believe the NGM asked to be reimbursed for about $75K. Someone with more time on their hands could research the archivd threads, but that's my recollection right now.

T.B.

In the Sun's story, Furstenau's attorney, Shawn Collins, said the city would likely be liable for any judgment against its employees. I believe the city is still paying their legal fees as well.

As I understand the situation, really very little has changed, as Norgle didn't rule on the validity of Fursteneau's charges, but rather this was a narrow legal ruling, finding that his complaint failed to meet the legal requirements for pleading civil rights violations against a municipality. Everything that Dick has claimed can be true, but legally, it wasn't the city that violated his civil rights, so they're off the suit.

This means the city is still on the hook for defending the suit and paying any damages. The individual defendants also have motions to dismiss pending, and those will have to be ruled on before the suit goes to trial. If they get dismissed, then the only recourse for Dick would be to appeal the dismissal, with I would guess a fairly low probability of success. If the motions are denied, then there could potentially be some kind of settlement deal worked out before the trial.Baring that it goes to trial.

Maryann wrote:

"just don't know how we will be one day be able to support 400 retired POs and FFs, if we can't even support 60 retirees these days."

Maryann, the $70 million dollar deficit is a projected deficit for, I believe, the year 2033, not a current deficit. We ARE supporting the current retirees; it's the hundreds of future retirees that are the problem.

John Q. Public,

I believe our current deficit right now for the pension fund is 61.4 million based on CM Bob and not the 70 million you and Maryann are throwing around.

The year 2033 is the year the STATE is demanding we have a ZERO pension fund deficit. This means this number is current and not projected or how could we have a ZERO deficit in 2033 even though we will still have another crop of 400 retired POs and FFs in 2033 that will be collecting till they die in 2060 or 2070.

If we were doing our job the pension deficit should be ZERO each year as should the budget deficit also be ZERO each year.

Caroline,

With all due respect, I believe you are wrong about the pension deficit. It IS a projected deficit, not a current operating deficit. I couldn't find Councilman Bob's post on the police deficit, but from his post on November 9 on this blog this is what he had to say about the firefighter's pension:

On the amount of the pension deficit, we just got a report from the Naperville Firefighters’ (FFs’) Pension Fund in which their actuary set the unfunded accrued liability for FF pensions at $26.9M for 2009, up from $23.5M for 2008. The amount the City is to pay in 2009 toward amortizing that liability is $1.3M, up from $1.1M in 2008. (Under state law, unfunded pension liabilities have to be fully funded by 2033.)

If there were a current deficit of $26.9 M, the city would have to pay that full amount in 2009; otherwise, current retiree's would be left in the cold. Instead, we are paying $1.3 M, as a sort of mortgage payment on a future deficit. Every year the actuaries look at the current state of the pension, project ahead to 2033, figure what the deficit will be then, then calculate an amount necessary to eventually (by making similar payments every year until 2033) reduce that deficit to zero. This calculation assumes a certain amount of growth in current investments, which is why a bear market can make the deficit grow significantly from one year to the next.

-JQP

FIRSTENAU AND BLAGO IN 2016 FOR THE WHITE HOUSE!! The "ALL ABOUT THEM" party! "Taxpayers, who cares about the taxpayers!" will be their platform. Two of the biggest frauds in Illinois to ever hold elected office! Caroline will then head up the FBI and Doug Krause will wonder how he can get elected to a higher office after so many failed attenpts. Let's hear it for politicians in Illinois. yeay.

John Q. Public,

I think you are still confused with all due respect.

If our pension fund deficit is to be ZERO this year we need 61.4 million dollars added to the pension fund in order for it to be able to make these future payments without getting futher in the hole.

Based on the money we currently have in both the FFs and POs pension fund, we are not able to make the necessary retirement payments without borrowing or getting further in the hole.

A pension fund needs to have a certain amount of money in it so that retirees can be paid from the interest or dividends of the pension fund and not from its invested capital.

Since we are $61.4 million dollars in the hole, the current amount can not sustain needed pay-outs for now or in the future. Notice how the pension fund deficit increased 7 million in one year.

This is partially due to pay-outs exceeding pay-ins from the police and fire officers. And it is also partially because the stock market has chipped away at the base fund even more.

Since our fiscal year ends on April 30 and the devastating stock market losses have not been factored in this $61.4 million pension deficit, I am guessing that our current deficit is probably much worse.....maybe in the 80-90 million dollar range. No one will know the exact number until the next fiscal year ends....but it will be shocking.

I think you are very confused, John Q. Public. This is a current deficit but the city does not have to pay it right now. The pension deficit we are talking about is not related to pay-outs being currently made to retirees. It is related to the amount of base money you need in your portfolio to make these pay-outs from earnings(interest and dividends) without further draining the base of the capital.

If we keep draining the core capital in the pension funds by paying much more than is paid in, we will eventually have nothing in the pension funds. This would be a complete disaster. And the only money available to retirees would be the 9.91% collected from the fire fighters combined with the 21.16% we the taxpayers provide in matching funds. So basically we will have 31% of the base pay of the current employees to pay all the retireees. And when we reach the point of employees EQUALING retirees in numbers, how can 31% of the average pay of current employees pay 75% of the highest ending pay of retirees if their is no huge base of accumulated funds to make up the difference from interest and dividends. I hope you follow my logic which I am sure of but may be having a hard time explaining in layman's language.

I know it is a little complicated and confusing but hopefully if you can't comprehend what I am saying, someone else can step in and explain it to you.

Thanks..

------------------------------------------------------------------

The FFs pension fund deficit is $26.9 million. The POs pension fund deficit is $34.5 million. Together they are the $61.4 million I mentioned. Both numbers were obtained from CM Bob. I hope this helps.

And our current operating budget deficit of 10-11 million dollars has absolutely nothing to do with the pension fund deficit.

They are unique and completely unrelated....very different.

Unfortunately, we are in the deep red for both, John Q. Public.

Have a Happy New Year!

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PS. I will stay on topic, Host. Please don't allow the Establishment folks to come on here and blast the Napergatians as they usually do and then turn around and blame us for hijacking a thread. I hope you can stop it immediately before it starts as it never fails to escalate to the point of intolerance as you saw on the last Govenror Thread. Thanks!

Caroline,

I am not confused, thank you. You and I are using the different terminology to say the same thing, but with one difference: you seem to think that the amount being paid into the pension funds during the year is not even enough to meet current obligations (i.e., payouts to current retirees), and that the city is dipping into current pension reserves to meet this need. I don't think that is the case and it likely never has been; where do you think the "core capital" to which you refer came from if not from the difference between what is paid in every year and what is paid out (plus or minus investment gains/losses)?

Go back and re-read Councilman Bob's post and you'll find that a substantial chunk ($1.6M of the $3.6M combined city and firefighters' contributions) of the money is essentially catch-up contributions. This is not money designed to meet current obligations; it is designed to reduce the deficit to zero by 2033. That is what "amortizing the liability" (Councilman Bob's words) means. That catch-up total will likely be higher next year due to investment losses. If and when the market picks up again, the annual catch-up amount will likely go down.

-JQP

P.s. The $1.6M figure was arrived at by adding CM Bob's $1.3M amortization figure to the $0.3M interest adjustment to which he refers later in his post.

Caroline on December 31, 2008 7:17 PM
Please don't allow the Establishment folks to come on here and blast the Napergatians as they usually do and then turn around and blame us for hijacking a thread.

__________________________

Devotion to accuracy: Caroline (??) Shouldn't the correct word be Napergatian (in the singular tense)? You inadvertently wrote Napergatians which we now know is not true.

A very important lawyer once told me that every lawsuit has monetary value. Defendants will always throw something out to avoid litigation costs. In this case, DF and his attorney saw an opportunity to perhaps make some money under the assumption the city will of course pay something just to make it go away and abate litigation costs. Sometimes fellow citizens, you just have to see the litigation through to the end and let a jury determine the merit of the case. Our system of civil justice does not require the loser to pay so DF and Collins have every reason to continue and the city has every obligation to get the matter to a jury. Collins has a bad record recently with his litigation and if DF has been wronged, a jury should decide. We should not be trying to settle a dubious case to "save litigation costs". Make DF earn his money or go broke doing it. Don't just hand it over to these two. If we get a reputation of simply settling cases to avoid litigation costs, we will have even more people filing suits against us.

And how good will this advice sound IF the various city employees who have NOT been dismissed from this suit are unable to convince such a jury ...?

Plus, let's not forget that just because certain city employees and the city itself have been separated from this lawsuit, neither the employees nor the city have been found "not guilty", so there is nothing to prevent an appeal of the decision to dismiss or the possibility to file an entirely new lawsuit on grounds not covered in the original complaint.

This is far from over. By the time it is over regardless of who prevails, the $700K will look like chump change.

Did anyone read the OP-ED piece in the sun today? Great viewpoint! DF has lost all credibility in this town because he has turned his back on the very people he was elected to represent. I voted for him in the past and now will never support him in the future because he only thinks of himself. It is too bad that DF isn't up for re-election this April, we the people could get rid of this typical Illinois politician once and for all.

By Caroline on December 30, 2008 8:17 PM

CM Dick Furstenau is a Napergatian. He was endorsed by the Napergate Man in 1995. He failed in that election. The Napergate Man endorsed him again in 1999 and he succeeded in that election. The Napergate Man did not hand pick him. He went to election forums and selected him because of his views on government waste, inefficiency, incompetence, etc. all resulting in high taxation. He has stood up to the establishment and they found ways of punishing him for daring to question their practices of enriching each other.

The Napergate Man also stood up to the establishment and they punished him by revoking his 2 liquor licenses which they obviously control.

I think many people are reading this latest DF hearing wrongfully. All those DF is suing are still on the hook. The city and/or taxpayers are off the hook. The taxpayers won since they will not be liable for the damages. The city police officers have to pay for any potential damages from their own pockets....not city funds!

This was a great decision. What this means is that if the Police Chief and his allegedly offending officers are found guilty, they will have to pay for all the damages from their personal paychecks and not taxpayers hard earned dollars. The city may attempt to pay the damages but the taxpayers can protest as the city is no longer legally liable for the alleged infractions of these police officers. And if they are found guilty of allegedly framing DF, why should the taxpayers and city be liable. The Judge made the right decision and should be commended. Yes, Mr. Collins is upset because the City has much deeper pockets than the Police Chief and the 2 accused officers. He could have squeezed the city for several million. Now all he can do is go after the life savings of these police officers and garnish there wages. Maybe a few hundred thousand instead of a few million.

The current city council may attempt to pay for the damages on behalf of these police officers. In my opinion this would be totally inappropriate and a travesty of justice. Another good reason for us to get new City Council elected who would not be willing to write a check to cover potential infractions by individual police officers who may have been violating city policy.

I think what the Judge was saying is the City of Naperville never asked or required their police dept. to operate in this manner. That these police officers may have broken city rules when allegedly offending DF by attempting to frame him. Thus the city can not be liable because city code does not allow officers to act in such a heavy handed manner.

Framing someone is a serious matter. The City Police framed the Napergate Man and the city was punished. In that case the city was not let off the hook as it seemed like it was the city giving direction to the police. In this DF case the police apparently acted without direction from the city. The police dept. simply did not like Furstenau because he was always demanding that they reduce expenses, overtime and try to be more efficient. Very reminisent of when the Napergate Man went after the legal dept. for its excessive waste and they in turn sent their prosecutor after him in an attempt to neutralize him.

Many bloggers apparently read the first part of the article in the Sun before it was fully posted...including initially myself.

When you read the full article, you see that both DF and the city(taxpayers) won this round. The police chief and his 2 officers lost this round and now have a very good chance of being put on trail before a jury of their peers and be solely responsible for all potential damages both compensatory and punitive that the jury may award DF if he wins.

Let us be patient and see what happens. Again as another blogger stated, it looks very suspicious when a civilian punches a cop and is not arrested for 2 weeks. This I believe is what will lead a jury to convict the police chief and his 2 officers. It is simply not believable that a person who punches a cop would not face immediate arrest. Thus one has to conclude using logic, reason and common sense that Furstenau never punched the cop....as he has always told us. And if Furstenau never punched the cop, the police officer may be guilty of FRAMING Furstenau. Let us see how the jury rules. They will have all the evidence before them. We don't!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the real cash cow is off the hook, maybe an out of court settlement is appropriate so that we can get on with bigger and better things. Like attending to a ever increasing city budget with a very constrained tax base. This stupidity has gone on long enough!

Sorry, in the event of an adverse verdict, the city has to indemnify on behalf of its employee's in performance of their duties. In order for the city to not indemnify on behalf of its employee's, they would have to obtain a declaratory judgement wherein the judge would rule that defendent police officers acted outside of their duties. Not going to happen. The taxpayers are ONLY off the hook for costs defending the City of Naperville and for any award that DF may receive against the City. Wonder if he will now demand that his recluse from this matter as it relates to the council should be rescinded since the City is no longer a defendant. Lets get the case to the jury ASAP.

Glock 22,

Here is how you have to look at this case.

If Mayor Pradel or Councilman Wehrli tapped or touched or maybe even shoved the police officer on the shoulder and told him it is INAPPROPRIATE to be towing cars without a sign being posted as the city ordinance requires, they would certainly not be charged. They probably would even be obeyed by the police officer. Chief Dial would have never charged Mayor Pradel who is also a former police officer. They had to think long and hard before deciding whether to charge DF. That to me indicates there was back room politicking which I find disgusting and disingenuous.

The decision ultimately to charge him was a political decision for being a Napergatian who had very strong anti-Establishment views. He was endorsed by the Napergate Man 3 times before he finally retired so the city knew what he was all about. I think the only reason the Napergate Man was mentioned is because some bloggers saw a pattern since the Napergate Man was also arrested for something he did not do and most probably for his anti-Establishment views.

What many bloggers fail to realize is that the connection between DF case and the NGM case was made by the Naperville Sun on a front page article and the posters at the time agreed with the Naperville Sun which pointed out the similarities. If there was a conspiracy, than the Naperville Sun not only started the conspiracy but initiated it. I think that is ridiculous and the Sun just did an excellent job of comparing 2 very similar cases. They even superimposed a picture of DF on a Napergate Ad and threw it on the first page. (Many bloggers are new and may not be aware that it was the Sun that made the first connection and not a specific poster)

Let us wait for the jury to rule. It will be either 2-0 against the city or a 1-1 tie. I think that DF's case got stronger because the Judge did not dismiss it when the opportunity was there for him to throw it out.

As far as the huge costs to the taxpayers, that has nothing to do with the DF. The city chose to spend $2 million on a $130,000 case to preserve their egos. They could have retained a very good attorney for one third of the amount at stake or about $43,000. DF is being represented for a contingency. No attorney would take such a case for a contingency if he was not 90% sure he was heading to a positive verdict. Otherwise he would have worked 2 or 3 years for free.

As Glock 22 said, let us get this case to a jury ASAP. It is not going to be resolved here so you are all wasting your time blogging about it. Let us blog about something else....this is just getting too tiring. We are not a jury.....we don't have even a fraction of the evidence.

Anon --

I'm not so sure about Collins taking this case because he was so certain of victory. He seems to like to sue the local govt entities (D204 being another one).

He also could have taken this under the impression that the city would cave in and this would be a quick score. Too bad for him if that was his original intent.

T.B.

Anonymous: Judges let people have their day in court. Unless a case is really frivilous, they usually get their day in court. They may require ammended complaints and some litigants are dismissed. I wouldn't read anything into the fact that the Judge did not toss the entire DF case. In my opinion based on limited information that may or may not be fact, this seems like a tough one to win. If every time someone is found not guilty in a criminal trial and files a civil complaint for false arrest and these types of damages, we might as well not allow anyone to be arrested. Every arrest with either charges being dropped or a finding of not guilty or aquittal will lead to civil compensation and I doubt we are going to tolerate that as taxpayers.

To "Anonymous on January 4, 2009 7:53 PM"

You dream up a hypothetical about Mayor Pradel (A situation that never happened) and say what would/would not have happened in this hypothetical and then use that as FACT to support stating that DF was charged because he was a Napergatian.

That's called 'junk science'.

It proves nothing. It's merely 'backfill' for the conclusion; that DF was charged due to a politically motivated decision.

Find the REAL PROOF and people may give it credibility. As stated it sounds like nothing more than desperation for excusing DF's completely inappropriate behavior at the scene. He tried to circumvent the process of the City and interfered with a police officer performing his duty. I'll agree the police messed up charging him with the wrong offense. If they would have charged with with interfering with an officer / obstruction of justice the charge would have had a better chance of sticking and thus, no lawsuit.

Both sides were wrong. Wrong action by a Councilman and wrong charge by the police department against said Councilman. Just because they charged him with the wrong technical offense does not warrant a civil award. I keep saying this because it's true: But for DF's original out of line actions, this would not have happened.
For that very reason, this is why I feel he will lose if it goes to a judge/jury.

TB,

You may be right or wrong. Only time will tell. Let the jury rule.

Besides thinking the city may settle, he also knows that any case before any jury is like playing Russian Roulette.

Mr. Collins is not a young man. I suspect he observed or researched how the City of Naperville would not settle with the Napergate Man for nearly a decade. Only after losses in Administrative Courts, County Courts and Appellate Courts did the City surrender. Mind you they never settled with the Napergate Man. A Judge issued a verdict and they chose not to appeal to the respective Supreme Courts and accepted the verdict after nearly a decade of battles and millions of dollars wasted on Chicago Prestigious Law Firms at taxpayer expense. At least 2 outside firms were used plus in the in-house attorneys, of course.

Now Collins runs a rather large and successful law firm in Naperville on Diehl Rd, somewhere. Do you really think he did not follow the Napergate Trial? Do you really feel he did not know that the city refused to settle that case?

I assume Collins knew the city never caved in during either of the 3 Napergate Cases. The first one went to the Supreme Court in the mid-eighties and the City never caved in. They chose to lose rather than cave in.

Based on your quote, TB,

"He also could have taken this under the impression that the city would cave in and this would be a quick score. Too bad for him if that was his original intent."

do you really still feel he was under the impression they would cave in and this would be a quick score. I am sorry but I respectfully disagree with you and feel strongly he knew the city was not going to cave in but go all the way.

Just like you correctly researched the Napergate Case and posted one of the verdicts, I am sure that the Colins Legal Firm took their time and researched the Napergate Case. Not only did they learn that the city would NEVER CAVE in but they probably spent quite a bit of time studying how the Napergate Man's attorneys pulled their 3 wins against City Hall.

I am sure a lot of football teams started reviewing how Appalachian State beat the mighty University of Michigan football team last season. This season they went 3-9 as teams studied their tactics and ripped the storied U of M programs to shreds despite top notch athletes.

My point is Collins probably ripped all the Napergate Man's cases to pieces to understand how one man can defeat City Hall 3 times and learned much. Let us see what happens before a jury now.

No sense in further discussing this case. It has been beaten to death on this blog site. Let us await the verdict of the jury and the numerous appeals. Speculation, especially speculation with no foundation, will get us nowhere.

Glock 22,

I think the City was contemplating Felony Charges against DF at one time which would have sent him to prison for 15 years.

Having to live each day for months knowing that you may have to go to prison for 15 years is nothing any human being can handle without extreme depression and fear.

When a city brings false charges, the defendant has a right to sue and should sue. I guarantee you, that if you were charged falsely with a felony and your reputation was ruined, you would line up behind the Napergate Man and Dick Furstenau. Are you going to convince me you would just forgive the city after bringing so much agony on you and your family? After making you live in fear several months that 15 years of your life might be wasted in a jail cell.....

I think you are unable to put your feet in DF's shoes. I think that is very unfortunate.

As taxpayers we should not tolerate our public officials bringing false charges against anyone innocent. They need to do their due diligence before bringing erroneous charges. Maybe the City of Naperville did not learn lessons from the Napergate Case. Maybe the DF case will remind them of the lessons quickly forgotten.

Let DF have his day in court. When it is all over we will know who to hold accountable: The City of Naperville or Dick Furstenau.

Drop the subject and await the verdict. Think what you would do if it was YOU. Be compassionate for I believe you would sue if you were falsely charged for a serious crime you did not commit. I know I would sue any prosecutor or government body who/which charged me falsely with a serious crime. So I am not going to be a hypocrite and claim DF is wasting my money. People's rights are more important than taxpayer money. We can not afford to have one single innocent person rotting in jail.

By Original Joe on January 4, 2009 10:15 PM
To "Anonymous on January 4, 2009 7:53 PM"

You dream up a hypothetical about Mayor Pradel (A situation that never happened) and say what would/would not have happened in this hypothetical and then use that as FACT to support stating that DF was charged because he was a Napergatian.

That's called 'junk science'.

It proves nothing. It's merely 'backfill' for the conclusion; that DF was charged due to a politically motivated decision.

====================================================================

Original Joe,

Thanks for making my point. That is what I have been trying to say. Everyone is speculating. Let the jury rule.

You also are making assumptions and predicting/feeling/concluding he will lose.

You were not there. I was not there. Please let the jury rule.

We did not know the facts in the Napergate Case and a man beat a city despite our predictions at the time that it would be a slam dunk case for the city.

We don't know the facts. Let us be patient.

My hypotheticals are no better than yours, theirs or anyone else's. You have come up with your own hypotheticals while alleging I am using "junk science" for using my hypotheticals.

Do you see some hypocrisy? You even arrived at conclusions that he will lose. I did not. I said let the man have his day in court and let the jury rule. And let us take it from there when all the facts surface.

To "By Anonymous on January 5, 2009 12:16 AM"

My 'speculation' is based on facts from the actual trial where the judge said that although contact was made by DF upon the officer, it was not of the severity to meet the threshold for what he was charged with.

If contact was made, as the judge said, then he was trying to interfere with the police officer doing his job. Otherwise, he would have been no where near the officer. The speculation that he was trying to interfere with the officer doing his job is again supported by DF's own accounts of the incident (to prevent the towing of vehicles).

Now that I've said where my speculation comes from (cold facts) show me where yours does about Mayor Pradel. When or when has he struck an officer while attempting to prevent them from doing their job?

I agree. I'd love to see it continue and I would love to be present when DF is told that because of his own actions there is no grounds for a suit because he set the entire incident in motion by trying to interfere with the officer doing his job.

Joe,
If you are so sure of what you are saying, why did the Judge not dismiss the case. He let it proceed to the next stage whcih speaks volumes in my opinion.

I suspect there is something we all don't know.

If a police officer is erroneously enforcing the law because a sign was not put up in advance indicating towing would be taking place, I think it would be commendable whether it was the Mayor, Police Chief, Fire Chief, sanitation worker, or a council member who approached a police officer and told him so.

Police officers advertise that they are our servants serving us. That is the logo of many police departments so I am not trying to insult them in any way or form. If they are here to serve the public then they don't need to be towing cars when government fails to put up the appropriate and required signs.

Now if the police officer had the slightest sense, if he noticed there was no sign indicating towing during a parade, he should no better than to tow. Most people do not go on the internet everyday to see what street will have towing on a particualr day.

DF had good intentions. He should not be prosecuted for watching out for the citizens. He should be commended. If it was your car, OJ, that was being towed without proper notice, you would be outraged at the police officer. I would to. Towing is not easy matter to deal with. You need a cab, you need money, you need to wait a certain amount of time, you get a ticket, etc. etc. The city failed us. You feel VIOLATED. Kudos to DF for keeping an eye on the city and its citizens.

Why we don't like individual like the Napergate Man and DF who want to play the Watchdog role is beyond me? I hope more individuals decide to play the watchdog role in the your future.

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PS. And I don't believe DF backhanded, slapped or violently shoved the police officer. If he did, the NPD would have or should have arrested him on the spot and in real time. Not after political back door decisions. If the police officers were reluctant to arrest him because he was a politician, it shows they may be a corrupt police department. If any other citizen would have been arrested in similar circumstances on the spot, he should have been arrested on the spot...no exceptions. It seems to me the NPD needs to think before arresting a politician of the consequences of their action...to me that is an indication of a possibly contaminated police dept.

I think if the Mayor or Wehrli were in DF's place, the NPD would also need to think and analyze the consequences of their decision. This indicates that the NPD is not a straight shooter. I hate to bring the Napergate Man's arrest for those toll violations up again. But I don't think Police Chief Dial would have been arrested if his daughter ran a toll or two without the knowledge of her dad. I am 100% sure of that especially because we know professional courtesy exists in the NPD. Therefore I have to conclude the NPD has some probable corruption that needs to be weeded out before we have additional wasteful litigation. The Napergate Man should be commended for not making this a big deal, pleading guilty, not filing a civil rights suit and continuing on with his quiet life.

But can we expect everyone to be like the Napergate Man and forfiet his right to sue when he is abused as he apparently has. People have a right to sue if they feel abused....and they have a right not to sue if they feel abused. Here we had the NGM not wanting to sue. And we have DF wanting to sue. They are individuals and have a right to exercise or not exercise their rights. That is none of our business. We made the system and thus we can't claim they are abusing the system when they exercise their rights and it costs us some tax money.

To: Anonymous on January 5, 2009 5:34 PM

Being a supposed newbie to the town, even I know not to park anywhere near downtown when there's a parade or a big thing going on that day because there are almost always some parking restrictions somewhere. If I was dumb enough to park there and get towed then shame on me.

Are you sure there were NO signs put out at anytime in advance? I seem to recall there were people complaining that they were out only 2 hours in advance; indicating some signage happened at some time and that these were people in a nearby bar who watched an entire football game and that the signs were posted at some point during the game. Were those reports all bunk?

As for what I would do if my car was being towed, I would ask the officer why. He would inform me why. My next question would be where can I go retrieve it from. That is the way the process works; like it or not. There is also an appeals process to fight the fine and impound charges. That's where the battle takes place, not out on the street at the time of the incident.

I don't mind people playing watchdog. It's when they want to play Vigilante that I have a problem. People who work within the system get my respect. People who don't, don't. DF, in this case, doesn't because he wanted to circumvent the system.

Don't hold your breath on the fact that the case wasn't dismissed yet as a good sign. I recall a lawsuit against D204 last year that went through some amendments and people took that all as a good sign then the hatchet eventually came down very hard from the Judge and it was over. Take a wild guess who was the attorney that filed the complaint on that one... C'mon, shout it out when you know the answer. His initials are S.C.

By Original Joe on January 5, 2009 6:22 PM
To: Anonymous on January 5, 2009 5:34 PM

Being a supposed newbie to the town, even I know not to park anywhere near downtown when there's a parade or a big thing going on that day because there are almost always some parking restrictions somewhere. If I was dumb enough to park there and get towed then shame on me.

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OJ, you are being ridiculous. If some one came to shop from out of town 2 hours earlier, how would he know if there was a parade and what route it would take IF there was no SIGN.

I think the SHAME is on you for being extremely unreasonable and not the innocent victim who had his car towed because he was downtown to shop or eat and had no clue there was a parade or what path it may take. Do we need to treat shoppers in this way? Are you aware our sales tax is suffering immensely, OJ? Probably not!

Please be reasonable in your arguments, speculations and assumptions. You are showing no reason or logic or common sense.

You sound like you reached the point of debating for the sake of debating. You finally returned to your old colors of the Real Old Joe. You almost had me believing you changed...you fooled me...I should have known that a Zebra can not change its sripes.

SHAME on ME too for letting you fool me twice. Shame on both of us!

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

You win, OJ! I lose!

To Anonymous on January 5, 2009 9:04 PM

Who were these 'from out of town innocent victims'?

What was the result of their appeal for the tows that happened?

Our sales tax is suffering from a down economy and a decent percentage of the residents who mortgaged (via home equity lines of credit and loans) their future and got caught when the market went south in addition to many people losing their jobs. Our sales tax is not down because they towed a few cars for the New Year's parade back yonder.

Please show me where I am not applying logic here. Pay close attention because I am not the one trying to apply emotion to the situation. I said I would use the established process to dispute the tow. That's logical, and furthermore, that's common sense. Did anyone who got towed use it? If not, don't be mad at me for their choice not to use the avenue that existed for them to appeal the fines.

Out of curiosity, did your car get towed or someone you know?

I did not get my car towed or know anyone that got their car towed.

I did not say our sales tax is exclusively down because we tow cars possibly illegally of residents or non-residents.

Of course the economy has hit our downtown very hard and that is the main reason. I saw that jewelery/necklace shop on the south side of Chicago Ave. go out of business recently besides that Antique shop and 5 more businesses between Washington and Main on Jefferson which include Tessas and Washington Mutual.

But my point was, can we afford to add to the harm that has been done to the downtown in addition to the blow that the economy delivered, by towing illegally without proper signs being posted. We have to treat our shoppers with the utmost respect so they keep coming back to our lovely downtown. We can not ever become cocky and arrogant and think our (bleep) don't smell. Towing shoppers' cars without prior notice is not a good way to do business in this town. Maybe event the moderator would agree with me on this ONE POINT.

I really think you put you old stripes back on, OJ, and you are back playing your game of dicing, slicing and dissecting. The New Joe has been almost like a second Moderator the last 6 months bringing sanity and maturity to this blog site. Someone I truly admired. Why would you want to bring the Old Joe out of the closet after we locked the door on him? It is beyond me why you would want to go backwards after all the strides you took forward in the last year.

Well, I hope we get the New Joe back. He has been a gentleman in scholar. NJ sounds so much better than OJ. Think about it!

To: Anonymous on January 6, 2009 1:34 AM

Again, I put forth that towing cars from a temporary no-parking zone isn't going to cause a downtown business to go under. I'm not sure why you keep trying to create some sort of connection there by bringing it into this discussion but you do.

I keep trying to stick to specific relevant facts on this one such as if and when any signs were posted (early morning, in the afternoon, etc) and whether or not if anyone who was towed actually appealed it through the normal process to have a definite ruling on whether or not the temporary no-parking zone was in fact legal and enforceable (which would have added a great deal of credibility to DF's side of the argument). Businesses have been turning over in the downtown area even when the economy was booming so trying to bring the fact that some have closed into the discussion is pointless.

Anonymous: Where in the heck do you get your infromation from? Comic books? The National Inquirer? High Times? The day of the parade (1/1/06), Chicago Ave was "CLEARLY" posted..."NO PARKING". I could see it from Huber Headquarters near the downtown parking deck. Secondly, Tricky Dick was NEVER going to be charged with a felony. The state statute reads "any physical contact of a provoking nature to a police officer" is a Aggravated Battery. This MUST been run by the states attorney, but is rarely approved. The detective assigned to this case was just following protocol by calling the states attorney. Anyone with any legal knowledge should be able to figure that out. OK, gotta go...heading to Extra Value with my fake ID to get some booze. SCOTT HUBER for US Senate!

Scott Huber,
Why do you choose to live homeless in this cold outside that parking deck?

You can afford a lap top.

You can afford a fake ID.

And you have money to spend on booze from Extra Value Liquors.

Why not get an apartment and share it with OJ and get out of this freezing cold?

I feel for you everytime I pass by you.

Soctt Huber for Mayor...The Senate Seat was filled. You must not have a TV under your tent.

At least if you become Mayor you can move into the Mayor's office and sleep on his sofa.

Not yet reported in the Sun, but appeared in the Daily Herald. Defense attorneys are asking that Councilman Furstenau take a "mental exam" to prove damages if he will not drop the emotional distress damages as part of his lawsuit. He is claiming suffering but is refusing to submit to an examination to prove it.

Honestly, this type of litigation, at my expense, sickens me. I never voted for him and will actively campaign against him should his ego continue to seek public office.

We're working on that story. Should have something up later tonight.

Anyone who has to sleep everyday thinking that he may have to spend 15 years in jail for a felony is going to experience some form of "emotional distress" unless he is not a normal human being.

It is the attorneys for the City of Naperville who are being ridiculous and wasteful with taxpayer money to the tune of $750,000 soon to be millions.

If people had followed the Napergate Case, they would understand these outside law firms only care about money...money...money. They know that 143,000 residents are jointly paying the bills and together they have one very deep pocket. They are going to milk this pocket knowing our city officials want to win at all cost to preserve their EGOS.

It is time for Mayor Pradel to step forward and end this case as he ended the Napergate Case. The other council members wanted to go for one last round to the Supreme Court and he said enough of taxpayer waste and persuaded his fellow council members to drop the final appeal. Kudos to Mayor Pradel for saving the taxpayers a milion dollars. As a taxpayer that is what I like to see....not taxpayer waste to satisfy deprived egos.

We can now give Furstenau his 131,000 or spend 2 million more and than give him much more later. This case should not be about ego. It should be about settling this case as quickly as possible for the least amount possible since he was charged wrongfully. Winning is no guarantee.....something the city should have learned from the Napergate Cases.

And let us not forget at the very very beginning all DF wanted was a LOUSY APOLOGY. Because of the egos of City Officials we are going to pay throught the WAZOO!

Is this what all you bloggers want?

Bloggers should be demanding transparent records so we know what this is costing the taxpayers. As you may or may not know the records disappeared in the Napergate Man case and no one ever found out the cost to the taxpayers. I see a potential REPEAT here!

Anonymous, I looked up the story from the time of Furstenau's arrest. He was charged with misdemeanor battery. The story said, "Misdemeanor battery carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail and a $1,000 fine upon conviction." I don't know where you got this 15 years in jail idea from.

Anonymous, yesterday you wrote:

Thanks for making my point. That is what I have been trying to say. Everyone is speculating. Let the jury rule.

"You also are making assumptions and predicting/feeling/concluding he will lose.

You were not there. I was not there. Please let the jury rule.

Now you're saying Furstenau is in the right, and the city should just settle. Why not follow your own advice and let the jury decide?

Let it go to the jury.

Contact was made (according to the bench trial) which establishes grounds for the charge.

While DF was found not guilty of the charge (due to threshold) it does not mean there were no grounds for the charge in the first place.

I have a feeling it will be that short and simple.

Oh please please please let this go to the jury.

Anonymous: Roland Burris is NOT a shoe in for the US Senate as of this posting. I still have a chance!!! I further promise not to "backhand" anyone during my campaign for Senate!!! Scott Huber for US Senate....or Secretary of Commerce...

Naperville Sun Editors,
Regarding your post on Jan. 6th at 7:24:

In the 2 weeks between the time furstenau allegedly "punched Hull so hard he was stunned and had to take a defensive position" (new years day) and the date that furstenau was actually arrested (mid January), the NPD was contemplating FELONY BATTERY charges (battering a cop is automatic FELONY). When furstenau got wind from a fellow councilman of the investigation (on or around Jan. 4th) he was informed that the NPD was pursing a felony charge...which carries a max. 15 year prison sentence. Dial, Cross, and all other establishment types were lobbying the court for the felony charge. Much to the cops displeasure the court found their allegations ridiculous but allowed a lower charge of misdemeanor battery.

It is this time period, from about January 4th until the date of his actual arrest, that furstenau was left to sleep on the fact that he was POSSIBLY facing a felony charge and the 15 years behind bars that COULD come with it. It is this timeframe which Anonymous is referring to.

It continues to baffle my mind how the Sun can't even get their own story right.

Posada, I read the story. In the story the police source said that while battering a cop is an automatic felony, cops are battered by citizens all the time and the state's attorney NEVER allows them to be charged as felonies and instead will only try them as misdemeanors. If you expect me to believe that for one moment Furstenau thought he was going to spend 15 years in jail for this, I'm not buying it. The main focus of his lawsuit seems to be damage to his reputation. He was running for a state Senate seat at the time and he felt it hurt his campaign. He wasn't worried about jail time; he was worried about his career. That's a valid concern, but don't tell me he really believed he'd be doing hard time.

By Naperville Sun editors on January 6, 2009 7:24 PM
Anonymous, I looked up the story from the time of Furstenau's arrest. He was charged with misdemeanor battery. The story said, "Misdemeanor battery carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail and a $1,000 fine upon conviction." I don't know where you got this 15 years in jail idea from.

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They were contemplating charging him with a felony in the media. They wanted to charge him with a felony. They presented the case to the Prosecutor in order to get a felony. The prosecutor refused to charge him with a felony.

They then charged him with a misdemenaor. The NPD can charge with a misdemeanor without the authorization of a State's Attorney....but a felony needs the authorization of a State's Attorney.

If Furstenau had all these worries about possibly being charged with a felony even though he was not, he obviously underwent serious mental and emotional distress. Unless, you experience it, you don't know what it feels like.

If DF was worried that he would be found guilty of a felony in the incident then I think it speaks volumes about his own self-guilt of the entire situation.

If you were accused of or charged with theft and you actually stole something then you worry about your fate. If you were accused of or charged with theft and you stole nothing then you don't sit and worry about rotting away for 15 years due to a felony conviction.

Again, we circle back around to there being 'grounds' for the arrest. The fact that he was worried (by his own admission and lawsuit papers) shows admission that he knows he did something wrong at the scene....

Jury...Jury...Jury...

Just to be fair; if DF was immediately strong armed to the ground with his cheek in the pavement and a knee wedged into his back while he was zip and hog-tied and tossed into the back of a cruiser and taken down to the station for booking... and during which he 'accidentally' hit his head upon entry into the cruiser giving him a concussion.... then, yes... I would most likely have a very different opinion. The fact is that he was treated with MORE CONSIDERATION then a normal Joe Schmoe would be for striking an officer during an argument while the officer was performing his duties. I'm sure if I tried what DF did I would not be allowed to leave the scene and would be in cuffs in the back of the squad within minutes.

Let the Jury decide :)

GET A REAL JOB

Just a wish from a voting taxpayer. We live in a funny town in a funny era.

The mayor decides to help out snowplowing and gets a ticket for accidentally bumping a parked car.

A councilman has a minor infraction with NPD and all hell breaks loose and millions will be spent.

In the mean time the economy has dumped and many Naperville employees will see jobs or hours cut. Part time work at city jobs will be at risk also.

We have a loony tune lawyer on the lose that has cost the city and school district untold dollars and wasted man hours. I have one wish aimed at "time wasting lawyers"... Get a real job! A job that has an economic value. If this is not possible please do not waste others precious time and treasure.

When time wasting lawyers take on crap ass cases there is artificial hope given to those that feel they have been wronged. These situations become a drag on revenue and other jobs are lost because of it. We no longer have the time or energy to see this type of wastefulness, All loony tune lawyers (and their clients) please get out of the way so the rest of us can get the work at hand done!

By Naperville Sun editors on January 6, 2009 7:24 PM

Anonymous, I looked up the story from the time of Furstenau's arrest. He was charged with misdemeanor battery. The story said, "Misdemeanor battery carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail and a $1,000 fine upon conviction." I don't know where you got this 15 years in jail idea from.

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Either the Naperville Sun editors do not know how to properly do research before making comments about a topic, were writing without knowledge, were just being careless, or maybe were trying to mislead those who would be reading the above comments.

Apparently investigative reporting skills may not be in the repertoire of the Naperville Sun editors. At least, they should have asked one of the persons involved, the councilman or one of the police, before inferring that the threat of a felony charge was not germane and dismissing it has a possiblity.

Some of those who have read the above statements made by the Naperville Sun editors may now be concerned about their crediblity related to the injection of the dismissive comment "I don't know where you got this 15 years in jail idea from." Perhaps some bloggers may now lack faith that a future comment by the Naperville Sun editors are actually well-founded in fact. Instead, some bloggers may look at such a future comment as being personal opinion or based on a biased viewpoint, but presented as factual.

Were the Naperville Sun editors being cavalier and writing before thinking? Or, maybe, were they lacking in some other way by writing without being fully knowledgeable on the topic?

Just my thought.

Anonymous, I was reading a story from Jan. 19, 2006, checking facts for a story we were doing, I saw the misdemeanor item and I put it up here since no one had mentioned it. There's no need to make an international incident of it. For the record, I did not live in the area when this was going on so all I know is what I read since then, and I am one person and do not represent the entire staff. I acknowledge I may be wrong in the knowledge I gleaned from that story, but that is what it said and there was no mention of 15 years in prison. If you disagree, find a written source where it said Furstenau was facing 15 years and post it like anyone else would and I won't argue with you.

I agree. Let us not make an international incident of it.

We have an international incident going on in Palestine and we don't need two.

Good point, Moderator.

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When I posted, I had not seen the post that already answered you. I was in a hurry. Sorry. I don't like to repeat what others already said.

By Naperville Sun editors on January 7, 2009 1:28 AM
Posada, I read the story. In the story the police source said that while battering a cop is an automatic felony, cops are battered by citizens all the time and the state's attorney NEVER allows them to be charged as felonies and instead will only try them as misdemeanors

____________________________________________________________________

Moderator,
I find this a very strong statement especially with NEVER being capitalized. As you know I read a lot of newspapers and from recollection I can recall many individuals being charged with felonies for BATTERING a cop.

I think the degree a cop is battered is what determines whether a PROSECUTOR will charge a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor.

If you punch a cop so hard, break his nose and knock him unconscious, you are very likely to be charged with a FELONY.

If you shove or push or back hand a cop you will most likely be charged with a MISDEMEANOR.

If you fight or struggle while under control and being arrested, you will be charged with RESISTING ARREST.

Your statement above may encourage civilians to get rough with cops knowing they will be only charged with misdemeanors which I believe is utterly wrong. Maybe you ought to give Chief David Dial a call and ask him if severely battering a cop can result in a FELONY. My guess is he will say yes. And be able to give you examples.

Did you ever hear the saying NEVER say NEVER? It applies in most cases. In the future, I would recommend NEVER saying NEVER.

Anonymous, never was what the story said, not what I said. I just capitalized it in response to the tone the person used who I was responding to. I don't want to get involved in arguing the Furstenau case, but one interesting thing I noticed recently with some bearing on this argument. There was a case of a man who, while at a softball game in Downers Grove, was charged with spitting twice on a police officer. He was charged with aggravated battery and faced a possible seven-year sentence. What he was actually sentenced to was five days in jail. This seems similar in proportion to what Furstenau was accused of. That's why I find it hard to believe Furstenau would actually believe he'd spend 15 years in jail. He's a smart man and he knows how these cases work. I'll try to post that story to our web site later when I get to work.

By Naperville Sun editors on January 8, 2009 11:34 AM

That's why I find it hard to believe Furstenau would actually believe he'd spend 15 years in jail. He's a smart man and he knows how these cases work.

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Moderator,

Neither you or I are inside of DF's head. We don't know if he believed he would be spending 15 years in jail. But I believe, that he believed the city was trying to get him on a felony charge which has the potential for 15 years in jail time. That is what the law states. We also don't know how much DF knew about the criminal legal system. We can not assume he knew he was not going to get 15 years as he was not a habitual criminal. I am sure at some point his criminal attorney advised him that it is unlikely to get the maximum sentence unless you are a repeat offender.

When there is a vindictive prosecution, the prosecutors go for the gusto. I believe this was a politically motivated prosecution.

Now who would have believed the City of Naperville prosecutors would revoke the Napergate Man's 2 liquor licenses for running a STING OPERATION for making sure his employees did not sell to minors. It has been reported here wrongfully by both the so called Establishmentarians and Napergatians that his employees sold liquor to minors which led to the license revocations. The Napergate Man was doing self-policing using legitimate and legal sting operations. He was charged for running a STING OPERATION if you can believe that, which was determined legal by numerous commission, state and Federal Courts. City Prosecutors went after his jugular because he took full page Napergate ads revealing improprieties and corruption in City Hall. They wanted to pressure him to stop his Napergate ads and teach him a lesson. He took them to all kinds of courts and taught them a lesson. Case closed!

Just like no one could have forecasted the City of Naperville could have been that aggressive in that case with ulterior motives, no one can forecast retroactively where the City of Naperville wanted to take the DF case. Let us face it. They dislike the man. He was endorsed by the Napergate Man who probably created the extra support he needed on his second try to obtain the necessary votes to be elected for City Council. He took over the Watchdog duties from the Napergage Man who apparently retired. The city does not like anyone questioning them about police waste, police OT, police incompetence, or how the Interal Affairs Deptartment works in vindicating police officers in nearly every encounter with civilians in a very disproportionate manner. If you watch or attend City Council meetings, this is what our brave CM is notorious for. As far as I am concerned he is very polite even when his fellow council members act arrogant and cocky towards him.

I may be wrong but I believe the DF case started as a vindictive prosecution with a felony charge being sought. A felony is a very serious charge whether you spend a day in jail or not. You lose a lot of your rights as an American citizen once you are declared a felon. One is the right to own a gun. As a felon you will not be able to obtain state licensing for most businesses. You will not get clearance to work at many technology companies. And I can go on and on.

Anyone who is looking at felony, undergoes emotional stress. The defense attorneys for the city are just wasting taxpayer money to make an issue of this. They are not satisfied with the current pace of milking the taxpayers to the tune of $750,000. They want millions more and are playing our Internal Legal Dept for fools. Our legal dept. can not control these outside legal firms. They need to question them about their perfomance and motives. They need to put a cap on maximum legal fees. Without a cap, these outside firms will milk the taxpayers for every last penny that will come out of the dry cow. What kind of legal dept. retains an outside firm in these days without putting a CAP of some sort on legal fees?

Our city legal dept. screwed up the Napergate Case big time from the aspect of controlling legal fees. When Editor Tim West asked to look at the records, they said they had none. Later, they said they lost them. Can anyone believe this? I don't.

To Anonymous on January 8, 2009 1:40 PM

The felony talk and poor DF being afraid of being a felon sounds well and good but the fact remains that in order for all the bad stuff about it to be true, there would have to be some reason or belief in DF's mind that he would be CONVICTED OF A FELONY.

Was his conscious that guilty about what he did that day that he actually thought he would be CONVICTED of a felony?

Records show he was not even CONVICTED of the misdemeanor charge. If he did not meet the threshold for that then how on earth could he be shaking in his boots about a FELONY ? That doesn't make sense. I'm sure DF talked to an attorney ASAP when this all started because I don't think he's a dumb guy. Further, I would hope his attorney would have advised him to not worry about a FELONY CONVICTION. Did they really think there would be one to cause all this emotional distress and anguish (as it has been alleged) ?

By Original Joe on January 8, 2009 2:46 PM
To Anonymous on January 8, 2009 1:40 PM

Was his conscious that guilty about what he did that day that he actually thought he would be CONVICTED of a felony?

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OJ,

Anytime you are charged or about to be charged for a crime you did or did not do, you have to worry about being convicted.

You don't need a guilty conscious to be convicted or vindicated of a felony. Our legal system is imperfect and convicts the innocent and vindicates the guilty.

Do I need to remind you of the 3 Hispanics who were convicted of the murder of 11 year old Jenine Nicarico of Naperivlle. They were all innocent and convicted repeatedly by Dupage jury after Dupage jury and Dupage Judge after Dupage Judge. What does this have to do with a guilty conscience, OJ?

You seem to be a very young man who has not followed the legal system to understand how it works. How many innocent defendents were convicted and sentenced to death row before DNA exonerated them many years later. I believe it was 13 or 17 just in Illinios alone who were taken off death row.

You need to try to envision yourself in the shoes of these innocents who spend a dozen years in jail until some Professor at Northwestern University decides to rally his students and university funds to dig the truth up. While we managed to save 17 from being injected with poison, how many innocents have we executed in this state let alone in this great nation that we could not save from incompetent prosecutors.

Guilty conscience has nothing to do with this case....you are off base here OJ.

And do I need to remind you the other infamous OJ was guilty as hell and a jury of his peers found him innocent. If you are charged in our imperfect system of justice, you better have your guard up and expect the worse and fight as hard as you can.

It would not surprise me if DF expected the worse. And again as long as he thought he was facing a FELONY and they were pursuing a FELONY he underwent emotional stress. Are you doubting this? You did not address my point that legal discovery on this point is a waste of your money and my money.

I am tired of wasting my money. If you want them to waste your money that is your right. You also failed to address my point of capping these outside legal firms who obviously have no conscience and are milking the taxpayers.

Glad to see Shawn Collins is blogging again @ 4:15 trying to sway the court of public opinion for his client...
Time for DF and the Collins law firm to find other ways to waste taxpayer money. All have grown tired of them.

I'm in favor of capping outside legal firms.

However, DF being charged in a DuPage county court for something is going to have a different result than 3 Hispanics being charged in a DuPage county court for something; that whole privileged white guy thing everyone talks about.

The Sheriff officials were brought up on charges for conspiracy to frame Rolando Cruz even though there was evidence that was favorable to Cruz that they apparently hid/kept from his defense team.

Are you implying that the City of Naperville is sitting on evidence for DF's case that makes a correlation here? What evidence is that?

Was DF ever charged with a felony? If not, why was he worried and further, why is he suing for being 'distressed' over worrying about something he was not charged with (a felony)?

If I hit an officer I would be worried. And the fact that I hit him would be 'grounds' for the arrest; regardless of how worried I became from it and regardless of whether I let my mind wander off the deep-end and thought I would be a felon if convicted by an unjust system... it would still be my own damned fault for striking the officer in the first place.

If DF made contact with the officer; like his criminal trial states; then there was 'grounds' for the arrest. The rest of the suit (emotional distress, etc) unravels at that point because it's all just smoke and mirrors.

Anonymous on January 8, 2009 4:15 PM

how many innocents have we executed in this state let alone in this great nation that we could not save from incompetent prosecutors.

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This is the only part of your rant that I give any second thought to. The answer, as I understand it, is that there have not been any cases proven to show that an innocent person was executed in Illinois, let alone the U.S. Keep in mind Anonymous, I used the word "proven", not what someone speculates. I may be incorrect, but the Northwestern group is still looking for that elusive wrongful execution.

What the heck is going on in Dupage states att'y office. We need to ask DOJ to fully investigate the behavior of employees in that office. Anyone willing to volunteer to be a target for the prosecutor to file false felony charges so he can bargain from there?? The combine members will do anything to protect double and triple dipping.Heck,some public employees are collecting 5 paychecks from public entities and it will not stop til they are imprisoned. view;reformillinoisnow.org Quinn's website,he has managed to have PATRICK COLLINS [pro bono] chair this committee,would any of you like to be on the committee,contact reformillinoisnow.org and submit your name. Good Luck.OJ i hope you are targeted for felony arrest this year! You could then give us first person info!!

To: just watch'in on January 9, 2009 9:20 AM

"Good Luck.OJ i hope you are targeted for felony arrest this year! You could then give us first person info!!"

Wish all you want, but I'm not stupid enough to do anything that would put me in that situation.

This case has always been about attempted extortion on the part of DF. DF made it clear that there was going to be big trouble for the City and some people. But, fork over some cash and he can make it all go away. I haven’t kept up on the blogs since the holidays but I am glad to see that the wide array of opinions are still going strong. That is what makes America strong.

I see a judge dismissed the city from being a defendant in DF’s lawsuit. So there goes the deep pockets and I suspect the entire lawsuit. But it should still have some entertainment value to watch as it dies. And put me firmly in the camp of supporting the City in its vigorous defense of this meritless extortion attempt. Anything less would have just encouraged more and more baseless actions against the city that would be cheaper to payoff than defend. I suspect that even the most ardent supporters of the “payoff and he will go away” plan would eventually mount a vigorous defense against someone kicking them in the shins everyday unless they were paid off. Paying off would only encourage more shin kicking.