On Wednesday morning a Waubonsie Valley High School student reported seeing two students with a gun in a hallway, triggering a five-hour lockdown while police searched the school for weapons. The gun was eventually determined to be a BB gun, and police said students were never in danger.
Some parents expressed disapproval at the way the district handled the affair, specifically saying that e-mails informing them of the situation were too vague and that the district discouraged their children inside the school from communicating with worried parents outside. Do you think the district handled the situation well? If not, what would you have done differently? One parent suggested metal detectors. Is that a good solution?
"Most all attacks on facilities lasted 20 minutes or less and over half of the incidents that occurred were resolved before law enforcement could arrive on scene. While law enforcement has responded to recent school shooting incidents and have developed rapid response procedures to these events, it should be the responsibility of the facility however, to take aggressive measures to ensure proper policy and procedures are in place and to practice them routinely. ", reference SAFE SCHOOLS PROJECT - A White Paper on school safety and external threat protection
You bring up an interesting point, Naperville Sun editors. If shots were being fired, would the police go in? If you remember, at Columbine the brave police and SWAT teams waited outside until all the killing was done, and then had the living students come out at gunpoint, hands in the air. I wonder if there is a different plan in place here?
Sun Editors,
Nope. No plan is fool proof. One has to weigh options. Those options will always differ in opinions. I merely expressed mine and more importantly, why.
For example, if the weapons were on the students then those in the classroom would be paying the price at 9AM instead of the planned 1PM which otherwise would have given LE 4 hours to narrow down who were the actual student(s) seen with the weapons and plenty of opportunity to apprehend them in a discreet and disarming manner. I have enough faith in LE that they could have deduced who these kids were in that time frame and that they were capable of handling it this way.
You can call it speculation on my part but to be fair everyone else has speculated about this too in order to justify the actions.
There's no foolproof plan, but for example if the students were in a classroom and their weapons were in their lockers, they would be prevented from reaching them. Under that same scenario, if they got past the teacher into the hall and got to their weapons, all the students would be locked into rooms and away from the wannabe killers. Sure, eventually a shooter could probably shoot their way through a lock, but in the extra time it might allow an officer to get there and stop them. I would want to give the innocent students every chance they could get and give the police the best chance of stopping it.
Sun Editors,
The incorrect assumption is that in a lock down situation the 'rule breakers' will all of a sudden start following the rules and wait until they are searched and discovered.
How many people do you think who have already crossed the line of convincing themselves that it's OK to kill people at school will all of a sudden get religion and fall in line like good little obedient students and wait in their classrooms quietly until they are captured?
Do you think Dylan and Eric (Columbine) would have waited up against the wall in their classroom for over an hour until their weapons were discovered and then gone peacefully with authorities? I certainly don't.
Joe, some of what you say makes sense, but since I am not an expert in situations like this, I don't know what all the theories are that go into this plan. Since the lockdown is the standard plan to deal with this situation for every school district in the nation, they must have a good reason to think that's the best way to do it. You'd have to ask someone who is an expert in that field to explain it. Discreetly handing the situation is great if you know who the suspect is, but if you don't then I don't see any other way to do it except the methodical search. In this situation, they didn't know, so they had to search. Again, for a defense of the lockdown theory you'd have to ask someone who knows more about these things than I do. Anything I say would only be speculation.
Sun Editors,
If there was a real threat of a school shooting that day what are the odds that they boys would have called it off because the teacher said to get up against the wall and not move? If there was a real threat that 'lock down' would have most likely caused 'the shooting plan' to go into action right then and there.
Think about that for a while. This is why discreetly handling a potentially dangerous situation is more prudent so one does not trigger the very event one is trying to prevent.
There was no shooting plan that day. That is why the there was no shooting. Applauding the dual campus lock down as a heroic effort in prevention is simply silly. If there was a real plan the shots would have probably rang out at the announcement of a lock down because the perpetrators would have known instantly they were coming for them.
I don't agree with the methodology employed because there was no firepower or muscle deployed where it needed to be if the threat was real when the panic button was pushed (lock down announcement) when the school and LE forced the issue.
Joe, I don't see why we have to embrace one extreme or the other. Obviously no one wants to live in fear all the time. We could make ourselves safe by searching everyone at the door and it would be like an airport - we'd be safe but everyone would feel harrassed. No one wants to live like that because you're sacrificing too much for safety. I hate the fact that in the post-Sept. 11 world all threats have to be taken seriously, and anytime someone finds an unattended package they'll call the bomb squad. But if there's probable cause I think you have to take all necessary precautions. Obviously you don't search the school every day for no reason, but if you see a weapon you take the appropriate steps. If you can agree to that, then it's a question of what the appropriate steps are. For you it's some kind of high-tech, Green Beret style operation where they swoop in quickly knowing exactly what the target is, take care of it and leave before anyone realizes what happened. That's great if you could always do it that way, but how likely is that? Some kid in a school of 3,000 people sees someone he doesn't know with a gun, so he goes to his teacher and says, "I saw a boy with dark hair and a black shirt and he had a gun. He was showing it to a blond boy in blue." So that narrows it down to 400 students. Maybe the school has cameras, but what are the odds they were looking at that area, at that moment and captured the footage? While the authorities are trying to figure all of this out, those kids might be in the library shooting everyone. Why take that chance when you don't have to? It's not like this happens every week. This is the first time I can recall a gun scare at a Naperville school. For the frequency this happens, I think most people would like to take all possible precautions.
Sun Editors,
The logic to not lock down and search every day going forward implies that if no one reports seeing a weapon, then one does not exist on campus. Do we really make that assumption?
In the abbreviated search I spelled out the weapon would have been found and the net result would have been the exact same. No one harmed, no one killed, one airsoft pistol recovered and both campuses would not have lost a full day of education.
I do see it from your point of view and I'm embracing the 'what if' and we can't be too careful justifications and asking for there to be a lock down every single day because we just never know and we can't be too careful. Because... after all....as many have pointed out and asked.... What if.... ?
Joe, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think very few parents would be happy with an abbrieviated search like you suggest. I've stated my case and I stand by it.
Sun Editors,
Again, no one knows each morning if someone has a bag of grenades in their locker or decides to bring a gun that day. By the previous logic and your re-iterated logic we should be doing this every single day because no one knows for sure if the place is void of weapons each and every single day and no one knows for sure if any adults have weapons at the school either.
If someone reported seeing a gun then they should also know enough what the person looks like who had it. Conduct a very fast investigation and interview with the person who reported it, check the video footage at the school and narrow down your list of subjects and handle it in a very targeted and efficient (and less disruptive) manner. Searching 2000+ students takes more time than the 15-50 possible suspects who would have been at the place where the weapon was seen at the given time. Or, we can check the whole school and everyone in it each and every single day. Just to be sure.
Original Joe, I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me. The police did a search because someone saw a gun in the hallway. That someone didn't know it was a BB gun, they just saw a gun. So based on that, the police come and search for a gun. The police don't know it's not a real gun. The police are afraid it might be someone planning an attack on the school, so they do a full search for the gun and any other weapons there might be in the school. Compounding the scare was the fact that someone found a message at the school the day before claiming there would be bloodshed at the school that day. Once they search the school and find the BB gun and nothing else, they know there was never an attack planned, but they only know that afterwards. I honestly don't understand what part of this sequence of events people object to. Looking back on it, we know it wasn't a planned attack, but there was no way to know that at the time. I don't know if you have kids at the school, but if you do, and someone reported a gun, how else would you possibly want it handled? No one is calling for lockdowns and random searches for no reason, but if someone sees a weapon on campus, why would you not want the authorities to find it?
Once again, I don't want to re-hash the hash, but I would much rather have had my son's fiancée detained and searched at Cole Hall rather than have open gunfire, people dead and her inability to continue classes at NIU while also battling continuing nightmares that cause her to revisit the mayhem. I would much prefer that the loaded weapons never made it into the building with security at the doors. This student came from downstate, very few knew of him on NIU's campus. But...we don't need to pay attention to calls for security, because it won't happen in our neighborhoods, right? And the security would stifle our students freedom and creativity, ability to learn, right? Freedom to carry loaded weapons into the building, right? I have security where I work, at my offices and it doesn't seem to stifle my ability to be a creative director.
It's horrible, I agree, that we live in this type of society. This doesn't change the fact that we do live in this kind of society. Some are saying that the schools are becoming prison-like and stifling the learning process? I know someone close to me that has had her learning process stifled, and she didn't get hit and she didn't die, she simply had trouble getting out of a building where those around her did get hit and did die. I'd rather walk through security on my way into a building and feel more free while there because of the security than suffer the consequences of trying to survive the aftermath. Why is none of this conversation addressing prevention and security that would have kept the gun, no matter what kind it was, out of the school. No gun in school, no detention and search of the student body.
Of course I realize that things could and can still happen with security, but once again I ask all of you, and challenge any of you to answer this time...would you be back working in your offices if people next to you were shot and killed, or had the ability to walk in with loaded weapons and kill your co-workers, or would you prefer to return to work once security was in place?
But, it will never happen in our neighborhoods, right? So we can spend how much on new high schools while the population is stagnating, but there are no dollars for securing the schools we already have?
Ken makes a good point that every parent should be very, very concerned about.
These days the police will leverage any opportunity to search every student and locker in the entire school. If the police search your child are you certain, without absolutely any doubt, what they will or will not find? Ask any parent who's child has ever been arrested and the overwhelming majority of parents will tell you that they had no idea, that they thought they were good kids. Sadly our kids will disappoint us and let us down, even embarrass us from time to time. And this isn't just hands-off parents either... this also happens to really good parents who trust their kids and whose kids have not been honest about what they have been up to or whom they are associating. An ever larger number of American citizens are being criminalized each year. Mistakes made by adults are one thing, mistakes made by children as part of the process of growing up are another. What parent wants their child caught up in the process of zero tolerance and an overzealous police effort to criminalize everything and anything these days? Case in point, the student who did a really dumb thing by bringing a bb gun to school got at least one friend involved. Now they both have been arrested and charged. Both now have police records. Both sets of parents have mounting legal bills. All because someone choose to over react and blow all of this out of proportion.
Did the police search every adult and their lockers and their automobiles? Or were just the students singled out? If the police had reason to believe that multiple students and multiple weapons were involved by what compelling body of knowledge/evidence was it safe to exclude all adults as possible associates or co-conspirators of such students? Why the wholesale assumption of guilt of one class of citizens and the wholesale assumption of innocence with another. Does logic lead us to a conclusion that children are automatically guilty and adults are automatically innocent? If that is a logically true statement that is very good news indeed for every pedophile and child molester in this country.
If what happened at WVHS is considered an example of proper response to a report of a "gun" in a local school, then how does anyone explain the total lack of response by the Naperville Police Department a while back when a police officer totally lost all presence of mind of his professional responsibilities, police duties and standing orders and left his loaded service revolver in a stall in a student bathroom? In that incident we had a highly trained, college educated, licensed professional who lost possession of a loaded weapon in a situation where younger children could have been gravely injured or far worse if youthful curiosity had overwhelmed their ability to choose between right and wrong. Was the police officer arrested for disorderly conduct? NO! Was the police officer even disciplined? NO! Was this police officer even taken off school duty? NO! Was it necessary to lock down the entire school for 5 hours to search all of the students and lockers? NO! What was even sadder was that the Naperville Police Department's main focus was to hush this up and put it to bed as quickly as possible. They never even had the decency to hand out recognition awards to the students who did the right thing as a positive example to all students that doing the right thing is a good thing to do.
Sun Editors,
All valid "what if?" scenarios you point out, but the actuals of the situation did not match up with them.
With that mind set I hope we see lockdowns every single day from here on out and no learning actually takes place because someone could bring that bag of grenades to school any day. By the "What if" logic, we should search every day for them. In fact, we should lock down every single school everywhere everyday because of this "What if" panic and fear. That is what that logic dictates.
Original Joe, as far as I know there was no plan for a school attack, but that's not really relevant to the question. What we were talking about is the actions of the police, and the police go into something like this prepared for the worst-case scenario. They have to be prepared for a full out attack, and that's why they would do a full search. If someone reports a gun at school, the school leaders could never forgive themselves, and the public would never forgive them, if they downplayed it and it turned out to be an attack and people died. What if the police did a search, found a gun and stopped looking, and someone actually had a bag full of grenades in their locker and carried out an attack later in the day? The authorities have all of this in mind when they do these searches. Most of the time they don't turn out to be anything, but they always have to proceed like there is something to find. It's up to you whether you think that's how it should be, but that's how they operate. On the Newsflash page in today's sun there's a story about some Western Illinois University students who were pulled over with several guns with silencers on them, gas masks, bullet proof vests and a few other things. They said they were coyote hunting. I don't know if they were or not, but police have to be cautious with this sort of thing nowadays. There have been too many copycats since Columbine.
Sun Editors:
"History has shown that when someone plans a school attack they usually have multiple weapons, so I highly doubt they called off the search without searching everything."
Was there actually a plan for a school attack or was this another "exaggerated rumor that spread like wildfire and caused a panic" like Mark mentioned earlier?
Denny: Check it out. Woodburn, Oregon. Some cops did what you suggested. Just pick it up and moved it out of the way. Two dead, one critical. Check out ODMP.org, Milwaukee PD. Someone found a package outside the station, brought it inside and it went off. Ten dead. Cops in my family are not expendible. You, the commuters (RE: BNSF incident this summer) students, parents can all wait. Errors are made on the side of public safety. Had a bomb been in the school or a real "GLOCK 22" and someone was hurt, you and others would be posting different comments now. Even the Sun Editorial got one right today. I'm no fan of SD $204 but I give credit when credit is due. It was refreshing to see that they did a good job.
I suspect that even if the police knew who had the gun, they would have taken this excuse to search every student and locker in the school. Much as we teach students that they live in a free country, it is painfully obvious that constitutional rights don't apply to them. Most schools also show their students that they have no intention of giving them any amount of trust either. Many schools are just glorified prisons with a repressive atmosphere that students are expected to learn in.
I doubt they stopped the search as soon as they found the gun. They don't know there's just one gun or that there isn't a bomb or something else in the school. History has shown that when someone plans a school attack they usually have multiple weapons, so I highly doubt they called off the search without searching everything.
By Ken on December 13, 2008 1:28 PM
"I find it hard to believe that the last two students searched were the ones with the gun."
________________________________________
They were the last two students searched because once the gun was found why keep searching. That's called Gun search 101.
Anonymous @3:46, in your own words: "I'm just confused as to why you feel qualified to comment on that which you don't know."
What exactly, makes you qualified to make the comments you've made here? I think many of us are - again, using your word here - confused as to your qualifications. Quit drilling everyone else and pony up.
Gotta agree with Mark - you've got some major issues. Have fun continuing the debate with yourself.
Mark,
You previously said "And to the parents who complained that they couldn't talk to their students via text or cell phone: There's a good reason for that. One erroneous text message, or one instance where an unfounded, exaggerated rumor got out and spread like wildfire, could have caused panic."
It appears that the exaggerated rumor of a real handgun already caused a panic response by the adults. I can understand not wanting the kids to also add to the frenzy and panic already whipped up by the adults.
Whoa.
I'm sorry, Anonymous. I didn't understand where you were coming from. At first I thought you simply voicing concerns about the handling of this situation. But your comments about "blind subservience to government authority" make it clear that you have larger issues. Are you one of those folks that believe the government is coming after you to strip you of your rights? If that's the case, then there's no discussin' this with you. You should really go back to your conspiracy-theory web sites.
BTW: What do you mean, a "false" report? A gun was there. No one made it up. Thank God it was just a BB gun.
Pax, baby.
Dear Mark,
At what point did this turn into a hostage situation? Or are you agreeing that these students were held hostage by the school administration and the police?
Let's not forget that people report and file all kinds of false reports all the time. Look at the situation over al COD last month as just one example. Sometimes people think they see things and end up being incorrect.
A report is just a report. It is an allegation, not a fact. When the police storm a building, lock it down, hold SOME of the occupants hostage, start conducting warrant-less searches, etc. they have to be realistic and sensitive to how the community is going to consider and evaluate their actions after the fact.
Unless a bb gun has been illegally modified it can be readily identified by the orange tip on the end of the barrel. Did the student reporting the gun report that it was a bb gun? At what time did the police realize that what they were searching for was a bb gun and not a firearm? Just a few of the honest questions that will, in part, answer whether or not the response was appropriate, adequate, inadequate, or inappropriate.
There are a plenty of questions and plenty of answers related to a situation like this. I never was so bold or arrogant to suggest that I had all of the answers or even some of the answers. I do believe most intelligent residents of this community have the ability to come to their own conclusions after considering some aspects that they might not have previously considered without me attempting to persuade them one way or the other regardless of what my personal opinion might be one way or the other.
Instead of sitting around sniping things you don't understand and don't comprehend and instead of blind subservience to government authority you would do yourself a favor to expand your narrow views and learn to develop some intellectual curiosity. There is so much that you don't know you don't know. I'm just confused as to why you feel qualified to comment on that which you don't know.
Anonymous, baby:
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but you're wrong. In a hostage situation, when a gun has been spotted, the officers are in charge. They control the scene. That means that mummy and daddy can ask, scream, pout or jump up and down demanding that they see their little ones, but they have no pull. The police will handle the situation as they see fit. The parents can't demand thing one (well, I guess that's not true. The parents can demand all they want, but the police don't have to listen to 'em).
I guess we'll never get an answer from you as to how you would have improved on the situation -- people like you rarely have answers, but always have complaints -- but can't we agree that the law has to manage the situation? Otherwise you'd have mass chaos.
Chris, I understand that not everyone knows each other. That doesn't mean that the reporting student could not have identified them. That still does not answer the question of when the gun was found. I find it hard to believe that the last two students searched were the ones with the gun.
Ken, I think there's something like 3,000 or more students at Waubonsie Valley, so it's not realistic to expect everyone to know everyone else.
Ronn,
Your point is well taken. In loco parentis only applies when parents are not available or are mentally/physically incapable of performing as parents.
In such a situation where the parents present themselves to the school the police and the school administrator no longer have any legal standing to act in loco parentis and failing to produce the parent's child upon demand places both the police and the school administration on shaky legal ground.
One gun was reported to be handled by two students. Any students who were restrained after the gun was located or who were searched after the gun was located should think long and hard about what right the constitution grants all of us and what protections we all expect under the law.
From what has been posted previously one could come to the conclusion that some users of this forum would readily give up some of their rights, as protected by the constitution, however what they might personally agree to give up does not obligate anyone else to agree to lower their rights to the same level nor does it change the basis of how rights must be protected and enforced with persons who have not expressed a view.
I wonder why the kid who saw the gun could not identify the two people he saw with it. Without a time line telling how soon the gun was recovered, it is unclear if a personal search of every student in the school was necessary.
Anonymous on December 13, 2008 11:35 AM
Anonymous,
I think that "Mark" will ask again, but it seems like you have been asked at least twice how you would have handled it differently. Your responses indicate awareness of how to do a self assessment after the fact, but I've missed any parts on how you would have handled it differently before and during the event.
It appears to me that the only unplanned for event in this whole scenario was the parents who were trying to insert themselves into the situation and possibly hindering the process!
Well Mark,
Sigh, sigh, sigh... if I'm an armchair critic as you claim... what does that make you? An armchair advocate?
Surely if you actually have any real, practical experience and are actively participating with a team that creates, manages and administers drills you know full well from all of your worldly experience that events RARELY go as planned during such drills, that people forget what they are supposed to do, or key people are not present and others have to pitch hit for them, or the scenario presents aspects that were not anticipated, and a multitude of other unanticipated variables.
And let's not forget for one minute that this was not a drill. This was the real thing. The report was a gun... only later was it determined what kind of gun.
Certainly you and your team do take the time after each drill to do an honest, objective, critical, self-assessment. Every professional I have ever met who is personally involved with emergency preparedness does a critique after the drill to find out what went right, what went wrong, and to identify opportunities for improvement. If you don't have experience in improvement then maybe it is you who should step aside and stop wasting everyone's time and let those who would like to see a better, more organized, more professional response accomplish what you are obviously incapable of doing your self and even worse from what you have written are even incapable of imagining.
Sigh, again.
Two points:
1) I should have been more clear: I am part of the team that creates, manages and administers the crisis drills. I do them four times each year focusing on different crisis scenarios. And this one looks like it was handled just fine.
2) Again, I don't see any specifics from these armchair critics. Just WHAT would you have done differently? How would YOU have made this situation better or safer?
Or are you just one of those people who sits back and likes to beef about things? If so, you're wasting everyone's time.
Well Mark,
Glad to hear you regularly participate in drills. Thats nice. Now if you were the person actually responsible for writing the drill or the emergency preparedness being tested by the drill in which you regularly participate you would understand and appreciate where I am coming from. Since you are just a bit player in a larger scenario it is also understandable not only why you don't understand or appreciate where I am coming from but also why you where given the role that you do execute.
This is not the Supreme Court! The Superintendant is not a cop! We have all seen the pictures of Columbine. We have all seen the events of NIU on TV. I believe that after 9/11 everything has changed. They have security at airports. It is voluntary. If you want to fly go thru security. If not travel some other way. That is how school will become. If you go to school you will lose some rights for the safety of the everybody. Just like last month when we had cops and dogs search the schools for a random search,it was for the safety of all of the students. The other day we had a lockdown due to a gun being seen in the school. Thank You to that student that reported it! Lets hope that we will never have to use what we learned from what went right or wrong. If you have nothing to hide, be searched and get out of the way. The students were fine. I don't know how I would feel if I got an text like that grandparent got. But I don't want anybody to get that message. Even if it means getting some of our rights taken away.
Sigh.
Okay, Anonymous, how would YOU have handled the situation differently? I mean, you make a lot of vague complaints about how poorly people handled this situation and how little you trust public officials (and that complaint is getting old, by the way). Don't try handling it with the information you have now; how would you have handled it if all you knew is that someone reported a gun brought into a school?
FYI: I drill in crisis scenarios regularly. It's part of my job. So I know something about it.
Would someone wake up the Superintendant? Apparently he went into hybernation after he blew our tax dollars on Metea. Perhaps he goes South for the winter with the rest of the retired population.
Given the seriousness of the situation at WVHS its suprising not to hear from a man who prides himself on being there for the kids. Or maybe a kid with a gun at a district school is not serious enough to involve his excellency.
Once again asleep at the wheel. Wake up Stevie
Solution: Build yet more high schools in District 204. Also, provide the Superintendant with golden parachute once he retires.
By Anonymous on December 12, 2008 3:25 PM needs to be reminded that schoolyard lawyers often make the same mistake as professional lawyers in assuming that an example Supreme Court decision based upon certain circumstances or context will apply to another situation which may or may not have similar or equivalent circumstances. Then of course is the separate issue of applicability based upon which laws and which state such decision was based upon. As a general rule a Supreme Court decision ruling on laws of another state have no standing within any other state(s).
Notwithstanding the above when the police search a person or a locker a whole different standard is applied.
In response to the last post quoting "loco parentis" it will just have to be examined again. But the point that really comes to mind is the fact that child is read a book for school that demonstrates what is happening hear. That book is animal farm, if you read it, recall the original animal rules that "all animals are created equal" that was modified to "some more than others". Interpretations such as "loco parentis" is the same. Its a shame that there is all the concerns about how convicted criminals are treated, and the plight of the terrorists in Gtmo, but we can do what we want to our law abiding citizen children!
Anonymous on December 11, 2008 8:53 AM needs to read a few Supreme Court decisions on loco parentis where the Court ruled that teachers and administrators stand in loco parentis over children entrusted to them as as such they are subject, even as to their physical freedom, to the control of those administrators.
The Court has ruled, in several cases, that administrators have the right to search students for drugs, weapons, etc.
Well Mark,
If that response is the best response YOU have come to expect from either the school or the police I truly feel sorry for you and those who would agree with you and most especially for any children or families who would be negatively affected by adults who would set their bar of expectations so extraordinarily low.
And I'll be praying that none of our local schools ever, ever has a real gun or a real shooting incident not just because none of us ever wants to imagine the personal and family consequences of such a terrible act but mostly because the sheer horror of what would likely happen based upon what we now know about the lack of police and school administration preparation and competence to professionally handle such a situation is too terrible to imagine.
Mark, from what you wrote you obviously know next to nothing about emergency preparedness. You also appear to blindly trust public officials to know what is best, forgetting that it is the people who give public authorities the power to act on our behalf and in our best interest... not the other way around. Not that their is a direct link between the two incidents, but if the political events that played out earlier in the week didn't give everyone cause to stop and think long and hard about if and why they trust any public officials maybe they should take some time soon to do so.
Anonymous at 10:25,
No disrespect meant, but you can't be serious.
You're complaining that it took five hours to find a gun? What do you want, a National Guard division to invade the school, tear open lockers and strip-search the students? If a real gun were involved, that kind of insane over-reaction would have triggered a tragedy.
Yes, students were detained for five hours. That's what a lockdown is. It's meant to keep people in one place so they can be monitored safely, and anyone wandering the hallways can be stopped. "Illegally detained?" Honestly. You can't be serious.
And to the parents who complained that they couldn't talk to their students via text or cell phone: There's a good reason for that. One erroneous text message, or one instance where an unfounded, exaggerated rumor got out and spread like wildfire, could have caused panic.
Kudos to the school administrators, the district and the police.
"Thank god that nobody was hurt! Mistakes were made but we can learn from them."
"WVHS handled the situation perfectly."
The situation was managed by highly paid professional and mistakes were made and no one has any issues with that?
How many actual school shootings have there been in this country that this school administration and police department have obviously done NOTHING to coordinate a unified, organized, swifter response than this?
Five hours on lockdown to find a bb gun? Yes we can all thank god that it was just a bb gun, god only knows how much damage a real gun could have caused in five hours.
Thank god nobody was hurt is right... if even one child was hurt much less killed it really would be a different story.
From all descriptions the police with the knowledge and permission of the school administration illegally detained children for 5 hours, illegally confiscated personal property and interfered with parent-child communication, and conducted illegal searches. By all descriptions the police department treated every single CHILD in that building as a criminal. By what preponderance of evidence were all of the adults in that building automatically innocent?
I can not possibly imagine a more bungled police response to such a minor, trivial incident. A police department that operates in this manner does not instill confidence in parents or respect in children. About all that is certain of this police response is that they ran roughshod over an entire building and an entire institution and the school administration just stood there and nodded their heads to every knee jerk reaction developed by the police.
If the police department doesn't know how to swiftly and efficiently handle a report of a gun in a school they would be well advised to consult with some of the Chicago Police precincts on the south and west side of the city who handle gun violations on a routine basis.... maybe if they did they could take up their level of professionalism a notch or two.
Take your personal issues with our Superintendent somewhere else. It has nothing to do with the event.
Bruce K. Dixon--I'd like you to have the conversation about metal detectors and security in buildings being overkill with my son's fiancée who was in Cole Hall during the awful shooting and murders of six students that happened not quite a year ago now. She has been unable to return to NIU and is taking time away and classes at Waubonsee, but this will ultimately make her bachelors degree longer and quite a bit more expensive. We are thankful she can continue her education in some fashion. Her nightmares have not stopped.
I'm pretty sure if this had happened to you or I in corporate America, where you and I may work and have offices that we go to daily, there would be metal detectors and security installed today, giving us more peace of mind and the ability to go about our business better. Why do we consider our children to be less valuable and not worth the added expense of security that could keep weapons out of school buildings? I'm pretty sure any of the staff at NIU would argue with you, as well and they, as more mature and valuable adults would appreciate tighter security.
Do you think that weapons carried into a building in a guitar case would have made it through metal detectors and security? A BB gun? (harmless as that may be, it still caused uproar and I bet a few nightmares of it's own) Do you think if Steven Kazmierczak had known he couldn't make it through security with his loaded weapons, he would have made the plans he made? Perhaps he would have chosen a different venue, but at least he could not get at children/adults that were sitting like ducks at a carnival, in a darkened room in auditorium seating that is difficult to navigate out of quickly during mayhem, never knowing they were going to be such easy prey.
So, Bruce, I ask you--if this happened to you at work and you ran from a dark room where people next to you died by a loaded weapon carried into a building without security, do you think you would be back at work in the same building without security?
I'm glad no one was hurt and that this turned into a lesson on how to communicate better during a crisis. One question though.. Where is our infamous Superintendant in a time of apparent crisis? This guy is a real loser and hopefully the carpet bagger will move on soon so that we can get a real leader in the system.
When will our BOD wake up and see that they made a mistake with this guy? I'm sure he won't leave on his own until he can milk us for a second pension but this district can't afford to keep him on the payroll.
He's already divided our district further with the Metea fiasco and when he's absent during crisis we'd be better off with an empty throne at the Crouse center than handing onto this B-stringer.
Hope the next BOD meeting talks about an exit strategy for Daschner.
OK i was actually in the school at the time. We've been drilled in how to handle this stuff and we did just fine. I actually think the outside public (parents) made the situation more than it was. I understand being worried but honestly, all you parents, what would you have done if you HAD known exactly what was going on. Imagine how we felt. We knew NOTHING and we were actually inside the school. And had the police not checked the ENTIRE school there would have been just as many parents saying that this was handled poorly. Yes, in the end, we made something out of nothing. But it was neccessary. We all needed to be kept safe and if being detained for 5 hours was what it took, so be it. If the police had come out and said "eh we checked most of the school. we suppose it's ok" would you have trusted the safety in the school the next day? of course not! The situation was handled in an organized and effective manner. Every single part of the school was thoroughly inspected.
And to all the parents complaining of not being informed. Have you not heard of the Internet or radio? There were constant updates in the media. There were actually students e-mailing news stations and calling radios during the lockdown to talk about the situation. Tune in next time J Also, would you have rather had the administration put forth their efforts in keeping us safe or informing 4000+ parents?? There were plenty of people from school administration to the police to news stations doing their best to keep everyone informed and keep the situation under control.
Stop complaining. All that matters is everyone got out safe. it was the perfect ending to a bad day. yes, it was JUST a BB gun but honestly, would you rather have had it that there was a real gun? someone was actually shot? Let’s just be happy that the situation wasn’t as bad as it could’ve been.
I was worried this morning when i first saw the post that this would turn into a collection of cheap shots at the WV administration. Kudos to MR, wvhs parent, Lis, et al. The WV staff deserves a collective pat on the back for what must have been a nightmare. And, what a terrible position for an adminstrative team to have been put into.
$0.02, you hit it right on the head when you said, "None of them are SWAT or FBI, just everyday people like you who chose teaching as their profession." I don't blame any teacher who turned off lights and kept kids in corners- they did what they thought they had to do as a responsible adult to keep their students safe... it's no different than locking your doors and closing the blinds if there's a prowler on the loose in your neighborhood. This is a textbook example of "in loco parentis." (google the term if you don't know it)
When all this settles down, my recommendation to the sd204 shool board is to call the entire WV administration team to a meeting and publicly acknowledge their job-well-done.
Southsider and MR - Thank you for your voices of sanity!
Everyone made it through this event safely. Yes, it was handled well.
Unfortunately, it is situations like these through which school systems, businesses, etc., learn how to better prepare for and/or protect against situations like this or worse. I taught at the elementary level and our school received a bomb threat the Fall after Columbine, and on the heels of other threats in surrounding cities. Thankfully, the principal and administration took it seriously, rather than thinking it was just a copycat, meaningless threat. Parents did show up at the school, and naturally and absolutely understandably wanted to take their children home. As hard as it is for parents, they need to understand there has to be a system of accountability before students are allowed to leave the school.
Many things changed in schools after Columbine. Lockdown drills became part of the fire, tornado, bus safety, and personal body safety talks rotation, at least in the district where I was teaching. Our administrative staff went to several seminars around the country on the topic of school safety, and we, as a staff, had many meetings to try and brainstorm ideas of how to best handle impossible to imagine scenarios.
Please, before you hang the principal, teachers, police - remember the objective is the same for all: the safety and well-being of everyone in that school building. Everyone working in that school knows they are the first line of defense in protecting those students. None of them are SWAT or FBI, just everyday people like you who chose teaching as their profession.
Metal detectors, cameras, even security guards - quite frankly, whatever it takes to keep children and staff safe in schools should be what is happening on school campuses. If you stop and think about it, your money in a bank is safer than your child in school. Where does that make sense?
I agree with MR and I, too, applaud Ms. Marchiando, WVHS staff, and responding police for their actions. They were doing what they thought was right to keep the students and staff safe. That was and should have been their first and foremost priority. Period. I can understand how frightened parents were, and how they would want to know details, but I can also understand how the respondees did what they could at the time. We should appreciate the quick action and the fact that the children's safety and protection was the priority.
It's too bad our society has come to the point where crisis plans have to be in place in schools. We also have to understand that no one can predict every single possible situation that may arise. We can be grateful of the fact that everyone came through this situation unscathed.
WVHS handled the situation perfectly.
What is amazing is the over-reaction by many of the parents. Your kids are teenagers, not 5,6, 7 years old. In one or two or three years they are likely headed off to college. What life lessons have you just taught them.
I'm also disturbed by the Sun's reporting - they have paid too much attention to the overracting parents.
Finally, from all the episodes in the last few years, every teenager knows that no weapons of any type are allowed on school grounds. The teenagers involved deserve the sternest penalty.
I give credit to Kristine Marchiando, Waubonsie Valley principal, the Aurora and (assisted by) the Naperville Police. For those who are unhappy by the way it was handled I pose to you this? How could it have been handled any better? They first made sure all the students were safe in their classrooms, they called in the police then they notified the parents that there was no threat and all the students were safe. They did the right things and handled it the right way.
The problem was in the text messages and panic by WVHS parents. Rumors start rumors and then get texted to parents who get mad because they aren't notified as quickly as they would like. The parents were notified the appropriate way by IPSD to not cause further panic. Sorry parents but you weren't the main focus in handling a crisis like this, it is the students first then the parents.
I can just see the riot by parents if Ms. Marchiando would have said on her message "Hi parents, we're on lockdown because there has been reported a gun at school and we have your kids in dark classrooms and on floors". Come on parents get a clue.
I applaud all those involved at WVHS the teacher and administrators and the police for a job well done! Sure, crisis plans can always be improved upon but in this particular case it was handled he right way!!
MR
Thank god that nobody was hurt! Mistakes were made but we can learn from them. Every school can learn and be better prepaired because of this. As far as the 2 boys they will not be back at Waubonsie. They will go to Indian Plains or be kicked out of the district. A tough lesson for a couple of 15 year olds that didn't think.
Overall after talking to students at the two Waubonsie buildings my feelings are mixed how it was handled. Here are some items that don't make sense. It doesn't make sense how some teachers made classes hide in the dark and confiscating cell phones and contiually being told to be quiet, while the kids hear total chaos and commotion from the room next door. Also, I do not agree with the pat down searches of all students. There is a little thing called the fourth ammendment that states
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I don't see where it is suspended because there might be a gun in the school. Unless some one is directly accusing my children, i.e. actually having probable cause, they have been told to NOT CONSENT to a search like that.
Fortifying schools IS overreaction. Cameras, locked doors, security officers...amounts to an unhealthy environment for young people and would lead to a generational acceptance of privacy loss in our society. It's no big deal if parents lose contact with their kids for a few hours. What did we do before cell phones (a technology that abets overparenting)? BKD.
Bubo, with all due respect, I strongly disagree with you.
First of all, guns of ANY type (bb, airsoft, automatic ...) do not belong in schools! These are high school students who have to have known better. I don't consider them victims, I consider them troubled youths with very poor judgement. 'Victims' don't stand a community on it's ear, terrify innocent people, or unnecessarily use the time and resources of our police and school administration. The innocent students and staff who were in the school the morning the guns were brought onto school property are the true victims. So were the responding police officers who did not know what they might encounter. Can you imagine the shock and terror all of these people might have experienced not knowing what was going to happen to them???
If something is going on in the lives of the troubled youths and they need help, there are other ways to get it. This could have been a cry for attention, but this isn't the right way to get it. I hope they get the help they need and I'm glad no one was hurt.
As usual they created a big deal over practically nothing. This is another over reaction akin to that silly suitcase incident at Naperville's train station. (that's where they found a homeless man's suitcase in some bushes and stopped the trains and had most of the cops busy standing around because there might be a bomb). Use some common sense, pick the thing up and throw it in the dumpster!
Q.
Do you think the district handled the situation well? If not, what would you have done differently? One parent suggested metal detectors. Is that a good solution?
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A. 1
No, strongly recommend public caning for all involved and don't punish the rest of the students with more restrictions.
What's wrong with a good flogging?
A. 2
Just kidding, lets fortify the schools, psychologically analyze all of the students for "at risk factors" and begin treating those who may go bad. We need gun free zones within a mile of the schools.
If the kid had pointed the BB gun at the other students or responding officers the burden should be on the police to determine if the gun is real before they over react and draw their weapons.
In some way I can't help but feel that the kid with the gun is the real victim in this mess and somehow he will be traumatized and stigmatized because of the way this was handled. How will this effect his self image?
I think the kid with gun deserves everyone's support and acceptance and we should not be judgmental.
Klebold and Harris deserve our empathy and understanding, they too were crying out for help.