By Chris Magee
Night editor
It's something of a cliche in the newspaper business - the annual column on the real meaning of Christmas. Every year a few columnists expound on the idea that Christmas is not about material things but actually about family and love, like everyone doesn't already know that. But even though we all know it somewhere in our heads, sometimes it's good to be reminded. This is my take on the subject.
I've had two co-workers who have died from cancer this year, both at a relatively young age. Another was in a bad car accident and lost two years worth of memories. I had my own scary moment last winter. I was driving back to Naperville after visiting my parents, who live in Sandwich. I lost control of my car while rounding a curve on a road out in the country. I was spinning around and around, and before I knew what was happening I was stopped in a cornfield 50 feet off the road. While I was not hurt and the car somehow avoided damage, I noticed afterwards that I had gone right between two telephone poles. I could have gone off the road a little to the right or left and it could have been all over for me.
What I take away from all these things is the fact that none of us know how long we have here. You plan ahead and think of all the things you want to do someday, and you put things off thinking there will be a better time later, but you don't know that will happen. A few years ago I took a job in Sioux City, Iowa, at a paper there. The job was fine, but my family was eight hours away. I got to see them a few times a year. My parents seem healthy, but that doesn't guarantee anything. Something could happen to any of us at any time, and I don't want to regret not spending time with them because I thought I'd have time later, and that's a big part of why I moved back.
People who work in newspapers have to miss a lot of things most people take for granted. We work on evenings, holidays and weekends. I'm sure police and firefighters, doctors and nurses have the same problem. I can't always be at the Fourth of July party or even Thanksgiving or Christmas. That's why when I have the chance to see family, I have to take advantage of it.
Christmas is the one time of year when pretty much everyone is off of work and has nothing else to do but spend time with family. It is the only time all the aunts and uncles, cousins and grandparents are likely to all be in the same place at the same time. It's your yearly opportunity to enjoy those you love and be thankful you're all alive.
Christmas is the time when we Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. Many people get a little lost trying to figure out the deeper theological implications of Christ's mission, but what it boils down to is Christians believe he came to make us better people. He told us not to just be nice to others because they did or could do something for us, but simply because they were our fellow man. You don't have to be a Christian to appreciate that idea.
Indeed, this time of year, people generally try to be nicer than they are the rest of the year. They actually talk to strangers instead of averting their gaze. They give to charity. They are nice to strangers (except on this blog).
I attend St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church here in Naperville. It is definitely the most active church I've ever been a part of. They are always having collections for various groups or offering volunteer opportunities. I have always been hesitant to contribute because I was too busy trying to get ahead. I had to pay off my student loans, then my car, then save up for a downpayment on a house. When the church asks its parishioners to contribute to a cause, I always think in the back of my mind, "Well, most of the people in Naperville are rich, so they can afford it. Someday I'll be able to give, but not yet."
I know that's not really true though. Not everyone here is rich, and often those who give the most are those who have the least. I can afford to help out and still make my house payment. Twenty-five dollars to the food pantry means an awful lot more to those people who will be helped than it means to me. Usually I throw away those appeals for money I get in the mail, but this year I answered one for the first time and I plan to do it more in the future. Someday I may be in a better position to give, but people need help now, so I want to help them.
So to sum it up, at Christmas I believe it is important to appreciate what I have and spend time with the people who are important to me while I can. It is a time to stop making excuses and start making a difference. Any time I curse having to try to figure out what kind of gift to give my dad, I just have to remember that I'm lucky to have him there to give a gift to at all, and that puts everything in perspective.
People who work in newspapers have to miss a lot of things most people take for granted. We work on evenings, holidays and weekends. I'm sure police and firefighters have the same problem.
__________________________________________________________________
Yes, they do have the same problem. But do you guys make 60k for a starting salary despite working as hard as police and firefighters and much longer with no OT to boot?
Do you newspaper employees get to retire after 30 years? I guess not since Editor Tim West in his 36th year with no ending in sight.
Do you guys get 75% of your final salary when you retire after 30 years? Do you guys get 25% promotion increases right before retirement so your pension will be equal to your final salary when you retire at age 51 or 52?
If the answer is NO to my above questions than you employees in the newspaper industry are getting screwed......getting shafted!
I think you should use your newspaper platform to demand you be treated equally to police and firefighters. Fair is fair! Maybe TARP will allow for that. They gave Goldman Sacks 10 billion and they gave it out the next week in bonues...all 10 billion...unbleeping unbelievable! What a country.....no wonder we are in some much trouble. The average bonus was 3 million dollars for these executives that ruined our country. Why don't you newspapers raise you voices louder and louder and complain about these injustices. Until you newspaper people can put this junk on the front pages, it will continue unabated. Where is the Sun Front page article about this 10 billion scaming of the taxpayers? I know Host Chris knows about it because he blogged out it. How about putting on the Front Page in dripping red letters and accuse GS for bleeding this country to death? Who cares if you are a smaller newspaper? Do your job and expose the truth? Maybe the bigger newspapers will eventually wake up. If the Napergate Man could shake the earth with one full page, you guys should be able to create an earthquake with an entire newspaper. Just do it!
Back to Naperville. It is reported that many fire fighters work less than half the time they are on duty. My understanding is reporters work 10-18 hours a day and barely sleep or know what the word weekend means.
I know former Host Ted use to work 18 hours a day. I can only guess that he left the Naperville Sun because he was not being compensated fairly and wanted better working conditions with more reasonable hours. Can't blame him even though he is greatly missed by the readers of the Naperville Sun.
Something has to be done to bring Sun Employees' pay to equal police and fire fighter pay and if that is not possible bring police and fire fighter pay to equal Sun employee pay scales. At least the taxpayers would save tons of money and the budget can be balanced again.
I think it is a matter of time before the pensions we pay our police and fire fighters bring us to our knees and ultimately bankruptcy. It is happening everywhere in the country including to formerly wealthy states like California, Michigan and New York. The City of Chicago is in dire straits from what I have read. And we all know the State of Illinios can no longer finance the pension systems it created? And the City of Naperville despite being the wealthiest town with over a 100,000 residents in the USA has a police and fire fighter pension deficit of 61.4 million dollars despite only having a few dozen retired employees. Wait until retirees equal employees. Or wait until retirees are 3 times the number of employees as with the UAW workers! Heed the red flag and the dripping blood while it is still dripping. Once it dries up it is too late.
Anyway, I hope the City Council renegotiates the starting salaries and pensions of police and fire fighters in 2009 before it is too late. Saying that others are making more is no longer a sensible argument since those who are making more are not getting anything due to BANKRUPTCY. Wanting more and more these days translates to BANKRUPTCY. Who wants or needs that?
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all and may 2009 be the year we fix our City of Naperville......with or without the Napergate Man.
Anonymous, I can't disagree that most of us in the newspaper business feel overworked and underpaid, but that wasn't the point of my column and I'm not on here to complain about my wages. I respect police and firefighters. Until I'm willing to run into a burning building or get in a shootout with a suspect, I'm not going to criticize them. Even if they're not always busy, they could be called on to risk their life at any moment, which no one is asking me to do.
Chris, yes it is a time of year for reflection, renewal and hope for the future. I always take some time to reflect, 2008 has been a tough year for many people for many different reasons. Thanks for sharing your memories, I tend to think of service industries having to work holidays and hadn't thought about newspapers. I guess I took for granted that my Sun paper would always be on my driveway in the morning.
Here's to a great Christmas and New Year to all.
p.s. didn't know you were from Sandwich, I'm from your neck of the woods as well. I'll bet you used to listen to WSPY?
No problem that is your personal opinion.
I think many newspaper employees would agree with me.
It is not politcally correct for a small newspaper to officially crticise the local police and firefighters.
Your response was exactly as I would have comtemplated.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Thomas, I'm not really from Sandwich. I grew up in Oswego and my parents moved to Sandwich while I was in college. I lived there for a few years after college so I know the town a bit but not well. I have driven past WSPY many times though on Pratt Road.
Working nights, weekends and holidays is probably the worst part of the newspaper business and if I ever leave for a different industry, it will be the main reason, assuming all the newspapers don't go out of business.
Host Chris,
I don't think Naperville Police have ever been in a shoot out where anyone ever fired any bullets at them. They have fired a bullet or 2 at a psycho once or twice who would not obey orders So their job is not even as risky as yours since they carry a gun both on and off duty and can defend themselves if mugged. Something you and I can't do. If we are mugged we are as good as chopped liver. If a police officer is mugged, the offender is as good as chopped liver.
The last time any public safety employee was killed was when the Police Chief in 1929 decided to engage in a high speed chase to apprehend a robber while on his motorcycle. It was a high speed chase reaching speeds of 125 miles per hour. Unfortunatley, the Police Chief had an accident that killed him during this unusual chase. I wish it was the other way around. I am not sure if the robber was ever caught. I certainly hope he was.
That is why I cringe when I see Naperville Policemen on motorcycles these days. I am for outlawing motorcycles period. They are simply to dangerous for anyone especially police officers.
Again, this is just another decision by our city council that defies logic and reason. Endangering the lives of our brave police officers should never be tolerated.
I mean what is the current Chief of Police trying to do. Save a buck on a gallon of gasline and risk the lives of his brave police officers. If anything he should know better since a Former Chief lost his life in this way. Let us honor the memory of the Former Chief by abolishing motorcycles in the NPD. This poor Chief is probably rolling in his grave at the thought that our current Chief is endangering Naperville police officers by putting them on risky motorcycles. This is no way to honor a heroic former Chief who truly sacrificed his life in the line of duty. Since he was the only police officer ever killed in the 177 year histroy of Naperville his memory must and should be honored. May his soul rest in peace and may his heroic actions have not been in vain.
Anonymous, you're of course entitled to your opinion on police officers but I was trying to point out in my column that this is the time of year to appreciate what we have instead of getting caught up in day-to-day pettiness and bashing other people. Whether police officers ever fire their weapon doesn't matter. Many soldiers join the army in peacetime and never face an enemy, but that doesn't devalue the commitment they've made. I have a cousin who was a firefighter and couldn't find a full-time job, so he joined the Navy. After a tour in Iraq he's almost done and will be home soon. I respect everything he's done. I don't know if he ever ran into a burning building but I know he would if he needed to. There are a lot of people who get paid much more for doing much less than our police and firefighters. The Yankees just gave Mark Teixiera $180 million. We could hire an awful lot of police officers for that.
Host Chris,
You got a very good point. Paying someone 180 million dollars to pay baseball is ridiculous. Laugh at me but I don't know who Mark Teixiera is and never heard of him.
That is an insane amount of money to pay any human being for playing a sport he loves. The love of money is the root of all evil. This is evil to the highest degree known to man.
I refuse to go to any professional games and pay those unrealistic tickets prices. I can't imagine that people are willing to pay such high prices for tickets in order to compensate a human being 180 million dollars to play with a ball. How many years was that for Chris?
I think everyone should boycott all pro sports until athleltes make no more than a cop or fire fighter. Those guys never work....all they do is play. Can you imagine we are paying them to play....and it is legal....at least paying to play when you are a politician is illegal....thank God.
But we live in an insane society where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And we wonder how come! It is because we are idiots that allow this to happen.
Can you imagine that us idiotic citizens go to movies and support movie stars making 30 million dollars for acting in a 2 hour movie. Yes, they're bleeping making on a single movie more than I will make in 10 lifetimes. Total craziness! Unbelievable insanity!
I don't go watch professional sports or movies. I am not contributing to this craziness of athletes and movie stars making 180 million dollars at my expense. I think the Naperville Sun should not cover pro sports and movies until their salaries become commensurate with those of police officers and fire fighters.
Just like I think news reporters should make as much as police and fire fighters, I think movie stars and professional athletes should make no more than a police officer or firefighter. Less if you want to be fair since they are not risking thier lives chasing a banana shaped or round ball. Our society has gone crazy with this love for sports. We should be reading to our kids instead of watching Monday Night Football.
And how about those Big Boys from Goldman Sachs on Wall Street making 3 million each and taking the 10 billion we gave them to bail themselves out for their end of the year bonuses.
This country sucks....the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. I think we need a nationwide boycott on pro sports and movies until we bring pro athletes and movie stars to their knees and accept the same pay the average person makes.
OK, you made your point. We should not be worried about our police and fire fighters when we have bigger nuts to crack.
I guess I am more worried about police and fire fighters because they affect my real estate tax bill and I can not control that. On the other hand I am not affected by these overpaid pro athletes and movie stars since I contribute nothing and they don't affect my pocketbook....I have a choice with them I do not have with the police and fire fighters. I don't even watch them on TV when it is all free. I would rather watch CNN and CNBC and learn something to make my life more useful.
To Anonymous on December 24, 2008 1:05 AM,
I believe it was 2002 (or 2001) where a man had a gun and was making threats against his family in his house, who managed to call the police and the man came out of the house and fired at the officers and he was subsequently shot and killed. I was at the school for a function a few houses away from that incident that evening. I'm glad the police did their job that night even under fire. If the man had gone to the school it would have not been good.
So, to recap, Christmas is important to Chris because of family, the knowledge that every moment alive is to be cherished, and he appreciates the sacrifices that various people in our country make so he can enjoy Christmas.
For Anonymous, Christmas is just one more reason to bitterly complain about what everyone else has. I would say that Anonymous' real name might be Scrooge, but even Scrooge eventually learned about the good in life. Here's hoping the the Christmas spirits visit Anonymous.
Chris, I agree with you, and hope all can learn to appreciate and cherish the good lives we have, even if all is not perfect. I will enjoy my Christmas with my family, and feel bad for those I see working on this holiday, remembering the not to distant past where I too was working on Christmas.
To those that for what ever reason have to work on a day meant to be a day spent with those special to them, I wish a very heartfelt Merry Christmas!
Anonymous, Teixiera is getting $180 million for eight years. It would be nice if we lived in a world where everyone's salary reflected their benefit to society, but there's no way for that to happen. I'm happy with what I have and I'm not going to hold grudges during this Christmas season.
I'll be out of town the next few days and someone else will be moderating the blog, so behave yourselves and be nice to each other. Merry Christmas!
I think it is very sad when there are some athletes making $180 million while there are so many homeless people living under Wacker Drive with no food to eat during this Christmas Season.
Anonymous has a good point.
This is the Christmas Season and these athletes and movie stars should be helping the homeless before building the next 100 million dollar mansion.
As usual, Ken can't even see the obvious. He loves the Establishment and the Status quo in this country whether it is local, regional or national. He hates change. He wants the richer to get richer.
He believes it is OK for Goldman Sacks to ask the struggling taxpayers for a 10 billion hand-out and then give it all out in bonuses to top executives. Ken's philosophy is "let them get richer and more power to them." What he does not comprehend is he is paying for these guys to get richer with his higher taxes. They are not getting richer because they are smart. They took their company to the verge of bankruptcy and had to be saved by Uncle Sam....meaning the taxpayers.
They even pulled a sham on the taxpayers by changing their status from an investment firm to a bank so they can steal money from TARP. Unbelievable!
Ken will disagree with anyone just for the sake of disagreeing.
I also notice he is always agreeing with the Host and even kissing his butt just so the Host does not ban him permanently as many bloggers have requested numerous times for his rude, hostile and uncalled for attacks on other bloggers.
Ken is such a phony. He will argue with every blogger but would never dare argue with a Host or Moderator. He is such a wimp!
Maybe the temporary Host will have this Ken canned and shipped to China for Panda feed before Host Chris returns from vacationing.
Just out of curiosity, what is the name of our new Host while you will be vacationing, Chris!
Have a nice vacation!
I came on here thinking there would be some lovely personal replies from people. Lovely, heart warming reflections of their own childhood memories or of what their children did this year etc and found very unhappy people who obviously do not get the point of this post much less Christmas. I totally agree with you Ken!
If they are going to make every topic on this blog a place they can complain about the wonderful officers this is just not going to work.
I think something was missed in the original piece and no one has also mentioned it yet...Christmas is a time to reflect, similar to the New Year, on how well did you keep the gift of God in your heart, mind & thus behavior during the year. The meaning of Christmas is to be a reminder to be wonderful and nice ALL year round. Unfortunately, some need this reminder more than others. Some years or times in our life we need it more than others. We should not wait for just the one time a year to see people, call them, tell them we love them etc. It should not be "just a season" but throughout the year. Some are kinder during Christmas and to them I'd say why do you stop? Some are worse during the season, more crabby, saying "I Can't Wait for Christmas to Be Over!" Ugh! Both need the reminder! Some Christmas show I was watching recently the gentleman said "the day after Christmas is the saddest day of the year, because everyone goes back 'to their old selves'".
I agree, I don't believe this message is just a Christian idea or speaks just to Christians or someone who is spiritual. We should be celebrating life and all its gifts, and recognizing the things we think are problems in our lives may also just be our perspective. They may very well be gifts in disguise. You can give in many ways, not just donating money.
I attended St. Mary Immaculate in Plainfield today & the priest there reminded us how unlikely we are to remember our gifts later. What gifts in life are we more likely to remember? What gifts are more valuable than a pair of jeans, Pjs, even a cell phone that can do many things, much less the incredible gifts given to kids today? What message are we sending them about what Christmas is about? Will we remember who we received them from? Do you remember what yu gave people last year? What do we remember more?
Personally, I remember all anticipation getting ready for Christmas day. I remember all the women coming over weeks ahead and as an assembly line making Pierogi and the incredible laughter...laughing so hard we cried. I remember the family stories & laughter told during the day. I remember going to Chicago & looking at Marshall Fields & Carson's window displays, the boxed ones in the middle of the sidewalks and seeing Santa with all the displays as you weaved in line to finally see him. I remember how excited we were to watch Rudolph, Frosty, Santa Claus is Coming To Town & Charlie Brown's Christmas on tv. I remember playing in the snow. I remember making cookies. I remember the smell of the Christmas Toy catalogs as you would circle what toys you wanted to ask Santa. I remember the years of going to Geneva for the Christmas Celebrations. I remember the year my folks were sick with the flu & my brother & I went out at 11pm on Christmas Eve to get a tree. We came home all excited because we got a huge one for free & when we set it up we realized the trunk split & twisted all over at the top. I since a young child going with my dad to get a tree & picking out just the right one and the times when that tree just did not want to stay on the roof of the car. ETC!
It is those human interactions that are the memories of love you remember and which should be replicated just in different ways throughout the year.
I don't know what Ken has said on other blogs. I am hoping that Diana is referring to posts on other areas of the Sun blogs since her comments obviously do not reflect the comments Ken has made on this one.
However, as someone who does not read every blog or comment on the site, especially due to the tendency for people to become quite insulting, I chose to read this one in hopes of being inspired by seeing the reflection of a true Christmas spirit. The column itself was thoughtful and helped to reinforce my belief that I too am lucky in many ways and should be helping others as I am able.
I am disappointed that commenters could not allow this one blog to remain as it was intended: an appreciation for the good in the author's life and a way to point out that we have much to be thankful for and should all be looking for ways that we are able to make life better for those not as fortunate.
Many people lost their life fortunes in the stock market this year....they may not be as fortunate as others. They have a right to express themselves. Maybe it makes them feel better to let some steam out. Let them exhale.
If those who are complaing about others would have also lost everything, they would be exhaling too.
At least they are not committing suicide like that French Executive who lost all his money, his relatives money and his friends money with that Bernie Madoff Monster who took people for 50 billion dollars.
Let us be thankful that the Sun Blog Site gives people a chance to vent.
Venting is better than committing suicide.
Therefore let the unfortunate say what they want. Maybe someone can hear them and change society.
I agree it is unfair to give those Wall Street executies who worked for Goldman Sacks 3 million dollar bonuses each while socking the government for 10 billion of taxpayer money to keep their company afloat.
How can taxpayers make ends meet and buy their children a few gifts if you have Bernard and Company taking everything they have?
My favorite Christmas Present would be to see this Bernie guy jailed immediatley. Yes, he ruined my Christmas as my money was invested through a feeder fund with him.
Maybe next Christmas, I will be more cheerful. It is hard to come on here and pretend to be Cheerful and Happy when you are not!
But I am opimistic next year will be a year where I can get back on my feet again.
Happy New Year to all!
This is not the place for Venting. If someone has lost that much in life and is that down they need to seek professional counseling. They need to be assessed for PTSD even. The very first reason is they obviously are not seeing what is really important in life. They need to be looking at what they still have! They hopefully have their health, they have loving supporting people in their lives. I'm not at all saying financial stability is not important but if you look at the Happiness research by David Myers & Ed Diener (you can google them...Diener is at UIUC!) you will find that it is true...beyond providing the necessities of life, money does not increase happiness. Problem is that some are confused on what is a "necessity of life". If they have to downgrade their homes or cars etc they do not believe that is right. They, like many children, have "needs" and "wants" very confused! Adaptation of Happpiness & Relative Deprivation become a problem for them. Perhaps this will actually be one of those gifts in diguise I mentioned and they will find the true meaning of life as "George Bailey" did!
You also can't wait to be happy. You have probably seen the funny emails...
When I graduate from College I will be happy.
When I find Mr./Mrs. Right I will be happy.
When I have kids I will be happy.
When the kids are out of college & left home I will be happy.
When I divorce you I will be happy.
When I retire I will be happy.
I think you get the idea. Now I'm not a suppporter of John McCain but he is in a John Stossel special on happiness I use with my students & he discusses how he was even happy much of the time while a POW for all those years. He discusses how they had fun laughing at the Guards etc. Now if someone can be happy there.... What is an issue for happiness is a feeling of control and that is what many people feel they lack with their $ being sucked from them. The solution is to find control again & you can in many ways. You have probably also heard, 'You can not control always what happens to you, but you can control how you react to it & deal with it' or something to that effect. :-) Yes, always hard to do when it is you going through it. I totally agree myself, but that still is the way out of the darkness!
I suggest that this post be exactly the path for them. I way to really reflect on their past & find what really made them the happiest and describe that. It will not only be good for them but for all of us reading. It really does not take much. Oh...another example in that video is the Amish...amazingly they have so much less than many of us & they report being much more happier. Interesting huh! Perhaps a lesson in less is actually more is a good one for some to learn. There is also a song by Doug Stone called "Little Houses" you may want to listen to or read all the lyrics. You'll find it on the web. Here is the refrain though read the full idea of it! Again, what is really important?
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/d/dougstone6564/littlehouses513176.html
Because love grows best in little houses,
With fewer walls to separate,
Where you eat and sleep so close together.
You can't help but communicate,
Oh, and if we had more room between us, think of all we'd miss.
Love grows best, in houses just like this.
One Who Values You, thank you for sharing your Christmas memories. I am quite surprised at the direction the discussion has gone on this topic. Generally the way things go when people express their opinions on something is they are a lot more likely to speak up if they disagree or they are mad about something than when they agree, because those who agree usually think nothing else needs to be said. Even so, I had hoped a few more people would have positive thoughts to share. We do have plenty of topics where everyone can rip into the city and school district and all the other taxing bodies and I had hoped this one could have a little different attitude. Anyway, I got to see relatives I haven't seen in a year or more and it was a good couple of days and I'm glad I had the opportunity.
Sometimes it is just almost freaky how some messages in life are everwhere at the time to speak to you, or others.
Today I was in Orland Park and as I was having a little lunch, I was reading their town paper. I saw a title "Happiness & a 7 oz Beer" and having wrote what I just had for this blog, I decided to read it. It was in the Pastor's Column actually (Luteran) and really the piece stands alone without the religious part if you think about it.
The first part is on the religious question to get to what makes us happy & then when you get past that he gets into the answer & that connects to what I posted last night. And if you think about it...what he mentions makes us happy is what is lacking in many people's lives today. As people get ahead more & more in life, they no longer do those things. We don't have time & we can "afford to have someone else do them" but what do we lose? Oh yaaaa...the kids can drive themselves to practice...but what do we lose? I heard a male in a store today say he just had to get out of the house because the kids are home from school. OMG...how incredibly sad! For both the kids & him! What they are missing. I would say, what are you contributing to that to make it that negative & not contributing to make it a more wonderful time. And no, I'm not male bashing here...just happened to be a father, it would be the same for a mother if she said that!! To miss out on that gift of opportunity. It really does not take very much in time or money or whatever to have fun & laugh. Kids grow up so fast later you will really wish you could rewind & do it again.
Lastly, I also thought of what I wrote last night about the guy who thought the day after Christmas was the saddest day while I was shopping today...obviously he forgot about the wonderful bargains! :-) See...all perspective!
Happiness & a 7 oz Beer by Don Borling
http://www.opprairie.com/Articles-c-2008-12-23-189340.112113_Happiness_and_a_7oz_beer.html
OWVU,
If you have 4 or 5 kids in your house being obnoxious and loud there is nothing wrong with leaving the house to try to maintain your sanity.
Another alternative is too kick them out of the house. I have done that on serveral occassions when they get rowdy and out of control.
Your kids sound young! Wait until they hit 17 years old. I hope you can keep your baseball bat in your closet when they start having parties in your house and sneak in beer and drugs.
I have had to take out my baseball bat and so has my neighbor. We have no regrets as we made our message loud and clear to the teen punks.
These kids are like Blogger Ken. They simply do not listen to authority or anyone. They are very rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.
I can agree that at times blogs are a place for venting. I just feel that it was inappropriate to vent on this specific blog. Again, couldn't we have allowed this specific blog to continue in the way it was intended instead of turning into something else?
Why is Christmas important to me: family. I get to spend Christmas Eve with the in-laws and Christmas Day with my family. Both bring a lot of joy and are important in our lives. This year, I experienced life as an empty nester while my youngest headed to college. It has been a joy to have my daughter and her older brother home from school for Christmas. It has given me a chance to get to know our son's girlfriend better. And at the same time, it has allowed me to also appreciate the fact that my husband and I are still going strong after 21 years and are enjoying this new phase of our lives too. Honestly I could do without the gifts at Christmas. It's the relationships that make the holidays for me.
Barak...you do realize you are describing children/teens to someone in psychology do you not?
There is so much I could go into here but this is not a therapy session! I will say, what you are describing does not have to be & is not for many families when conditions are more favorable in the environment. If they are not what you like & you are left to the methods you are suggesting and not to methods & results which are much more positive, I would just suggest seeking some professional help. Heck, everyone is watching SuperNanny even & finding some ideas these days. They are only extremely rebellious when you do not have a positive relationship & ideal conditions up to that age. There is some rebellion typical but not what I think you are suggesting, warranting methods of using a baseball bat? That is abuse if you do actually intend on using it & what message is it sending?! Violence or threats of it is not something one wants to promote. My parents never had to use this type of method. We would not even think to do such a thing in the first place. Again, this is leading into specifics and that is not the nature of this post. Just know that there are professionals who can help so that one does not have to have this type of relationship with their children and later teens.
Professor,
The real world and the text book world are 2 different things.
Teens can be rebellious even with the best upbringing. Teens go through a phase of wanting to test their parents, their pastors, their police, their teachers and whomever else. They are basically testing their limits and legal boundaries.
If I had 30 teens in my basement drinking and doing drugs I would threaten them with a baseball bat just like Barack to get them out of my home.
Do you realize the implications of one of these teens going home drunk and killing someone? I am sure I would have to serve time for that crime. If I took the baseball bat and threatened violence the minute I saw the drug and booze party, God fordbid something went wrong, at least I would have lots of witnesses that I did not tolerate this kind of behaviour when I was being tried for Manslaughter. Of course I would have no intention of actually using the bat...but only using it to make a BIG POINT!
I really think you have been reading too many books, Professor. You seem very removed from true society and reality even though you seem to be a genuinely nice guy.
How old are your kids, Professor?
Ha Diana...both you & Barak have a problem in logic called False Consensus. You believe that because you have or see teens like this all teens are like this. This does not have to be the case and no it is not just textbook. Good way to excuse it the behavior though. Sorry doesn't work though. Go to any counselor who works with parents with teens and they will show you. It is not just theory but does work in practice. Again, all depends on when one goes, hopefully as children if they had problems then long before becoming a teen. Am I suggesting all children can be turned into squeaking clean teens. No! Why? Because there are so many factors. Parents who do not follow through, genetics of the child, other people who influence them, for example many may have parents who do not work together on goals for their children, so one lets them get away with behavior they should not, parents who have their own issues they have not dealt with.
Don't you think teens know if it is an empty threat? They do! We did when we were kids. Again, this particular topic is in the realm of much more detailed information & specifics of a situation with a particular family & child/teen to answer. This is not the nature of this topic blog & if you have specific questions on how to get your children or teens to behave socially appropriate using more positive methods I do highly suggest seeking family couseling as they can provide much more valuable specific information for your particular cases. I will say lastly, wouldn't you like them to not even behave in the first place in a way where you might feel all you have to resort to is a baseball bat? This is the idea, prevent the inappropriate behavior so you don't have to even have a situation where you have to contemplate what has been brought up! This is where the counselors can help.
By One Who Values You on December 28, 2008 1:30 AM
This is not the nature of this topic blog & if you have specific questions on how to get your children or teens to behave socially appropriate using more positive methods.
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Sir,
I think you are acting like a Moderator by determining which blogger is on the topic blog and which one is not. I think you have to let the Moderator make those decisons.
This blog site appears to be very slow and if you want to eliminate anyone who deviates off topic it will be you debating the moderator.
The success of this blog site in the past has been flexibility and lack of censorship. When a former host tried to limit subject matter everyone fled to an archived Napergate Thread where they were allowed to speak as they wish. The Main Page came to a screeching halt. Editor Tim West tried to run a site on subject with censorship and we all know he averaged less than one hit per subject matter and finally shut down his blog site without even making an announcement or saying good-bye to his 2 bloggers....one being a personal friend named Jesse I think.
If I were you I would leave the current Moderators alone and let them decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate...what is relevant and what is not relevant. They appear to be the most successful site in the Sun-Times group. So if it is not broken lets not fix it. Sometimes common sense is better than any book you can teach in college.
Back on subject, I assume you don't have teenagers, Sir. Teenagers can be raised in the best homes, attend church weekly, and be A plus students in high school but once peer pressure sets in and they want to be cool, the trouble develops unfortuantely.
Pyschiatrists and pschologists only make the situation worse and the kids more rebellious. Putting them on any kind of prescribed drugs to calm them down is extremely dangerous especially if a kid forgets to take his drug or when he eventually stops. All drugs for pyschotherapy are terribe and counterproductive. It is just a way for shrinks like yourself to make money off society. Most shrinks just separate their clients from their money while making the client dependent on him/her in order to continue making 200 dollars per session while subscribing additional drugs. A chat with an older peer is much better than a chat with a shrink who has nothing but money on his mind.
The only thing you can do is let the teenagers grow out of the rebellious phase and hope they make it out alive. The more you push them the more they go the opposite way. Ask any parent who raised older teenagers, something I am guessing you have not experienced yet from your prior posts. I think you should save your teaching for you classes and allow us to interact and learn from each other.
Anonymous...OMG...I believe, let me know NSE...that we have been told MANY times to stay on topic! Am I wrong here? This is what I was attempting to do, to simply answer the question yet make sure one knows the topic is much more complex, which can not be answered here NOR is it what the topic of this particular Subject is to be about. Please let me know if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to say...we don't want to get off topic here & I can say that. It is very frustrating for readers of the blogs, including me, when the comments are not of what the subject was suppose to be about. It is like joining a garden club & they talk about cars! What is the goal? If the goal is not being met what happens? People leave! I'm almost ready to, but a few are chirping in on their holidays so I do come back but we'll see on that.
As to the rest of your post...first there is a HUGE difference between a counselor, which is what I suggested, and a psychiatrist which you are complaining about. Quite frankly you also have psychologists to choose from also. They are all different and use different methods. Psychiatrist do prescribe meds typically you are correct, but I was not suggesting this & thus why I stated a counselor! I'm not a huge fan of meds excepts in conditions where we know there are high percentage of biochemical links as in some forms of Depression, Schizophrenia etc. This is not what we were discussing though with the teens. It seems you have had some poor experiences yourself or someone you love. I'm sorry for that & I would not throw out all because of a bad experience. Some people die despite other medical treatments but it does not mean the treatment does not work for the majority so please keep that in mind.
I also did state not all will turn out squeaky clean that other factors do play into behavior, so I'm not sure why you are complaining I am not undertanding that. The idea is there is help whenever & for whatever reasons when things do not go well. The idea is there are many support mechanisms & tools one can use & many times people are just not aware of the tools.
As for people's assumptions as to my children, again amazing to me how people want to assume things just because they disagree with what one says. Be very careful with that type of thinking. If you do it in other areas as well it will be problematic. You can do much more than just let it go & see what happens. Would you say the same thing for someone who is drinking more than they should? Just let them go & see what happens? There is no value of any alcohol programs? They do not have success? If a marriage is having difficulty...just let it go & see what happens? There is no help or support for that? If a child or teens grades are going down, nothing you can do to help that? Ask many adults who have help their children & teens & they will tell you how much it has made a different.
Lastly, leave teaching to classroom...what is a classroom? Why is teaching just defined in a room in a building? Why do those "students" only get to learn & benefit from it? Why do you just get to learn from each other? I can't share information with all of you. It is mutual benefit. You are excluding those of us on the blog who do have more knowledge on a subject? So if someone on the blog chirped in on the best way to grow a rose & you later found out they were a master rose gardener you would not listen to them? They should save that for the rose garden classes? That does not make sense at all.
Sir,
Here is what I am trying to say. The Naperville Police Dept has been very well intentioned in teaching DARE classes in schools that preach against drug and alcohol use for nearly 20 or more years.
Statitics show that alchohol and drug use has increased considerably the last 20 years since DARE began. Many students are being taught about alcohol and drugs at a very young age, in school, raising a curiosity that may have not been there.
Sex education is also now taught in our schools compared to a couple of generations ago. Instead of slowing down sex between students, it has increased sexual relations between students.
We all know taking about sex stimulates hormones and arouses homo sapiens. So why are we talking about sex to 11 and 12 year olders and stimulating them in our schools. We are diverting their minds from their studies.
You could find some virgins in college 20 years ago. You are lucky if you can find a single virgin in high school these days.
Regarding Host Chris' introduction it was very long and incorporated many topics. I have no problem with drifting a little. Obviously you don't either as you are addressing subjects you consider off topic.
If you feel as strongly as you do, please do not respond to subjects you feel are off topic. Try to set a good example by practicing what you preach. By responding to every subject by every blogger you perceive as off topic, you have defined yourself as a hypocrit. Many of us are OK with drifting and are happily discussing the subjects with each other. Your discussion is also very welcome except for the scolding we get each time for drifting in your personal opinion.
Again, we have paid Moderators and I don't mind when they intervene if we drift too far. But I object to you complaining when we drift and then participating full blast in the conversation. Try to be consistent in what you do and what you say. Thank you, Sir!
Again, I think this Blog Site is one of the most successful blog sites because it allows drifting. It allows bloggers to blog on more than the 10 topics posted. Bloggers who don't want to participate in any discussion can simply skip responding to the post that they feel is off topic. They don't even have to read it. Usually, you can tell from the first sentence if it will be on topic, slightly off, or completely off. What is the big deal, Sir?
Please remember we are not in your structured classroom that you have a right to control. This is the domain of the Naperville Sun Editors....period!
Anonymous...where did I SCOLD? I just simply said a response & said but this is not the nature of the topic. I'm not sure why you would think this is a problem. People commenting on these posts have asked others not to personally attack each other etc before. Talk about Hypocrit...what are you doing to me then? You are telling me not to do something that I haven't heard the editor complain about either so...Ha!
1. Dare program...YES, data shows does not help. Why do they still do it? Community wants something. I'm not talking about that. The Dare program not being effective does not mean you do NOTHING! There are other things one can do & certainly when you have an issue already there are many programs which help. So if a particular method of teaching math does not work you do not come up with another method? Nope, doesn't work...don't teach math? Oh boy...
2. Sex Education programs do NOT increase Sex activity in teens! There is much data out on this so if you want to convince me otherwise you will have to provide your hard data on this one. Increases in sexual activity are due to many other factors & not these programs. Just talking to someone in a "clinical manner" about sex is not the same as how one stimulates sexual activity by talking in a seductive manner! You can't generalize this point that way. Your info on virgins..ha! Remember with surveys you have to have someone tell you the truth! Why would someone say they had sex when they really have not...come on...and for males even more so! I'm not saying it is high, nor that it is not going down with each decade but to say none exist....hmmm! To say all 13-14 yr olds have had sex by the time they are in HS...nope sorry!
And as for answering this...sorry no one should allow wrong information to be left unresponded to. Glad you are having fun though.
I have raised two teenagers. My daughter is 18 and my son is now 20. Both have chosen to be nondrinkers. Neither has tried drugs. We often have teens hanging out in our home. Not once have we had an issue with drugs or alcohol with our kids or their friends. Drugs and alcohol have been topics of conversation in our home (and our car) since they were very young. Proper behavior has been modeled and discussed. (My husband does have a beer now and then and I occasionally have a glass of wine with dinner.) Both kids have been raised to think about their choices and their consequences. They have chosen to make good choices. My son will turn 21 in a couple of months. He has stated that he does not think he will even try alcohol then due to all the stupidity he sees on campus.
We chose to begin dealing with these issues when the kids were young in developmentally appropriate ways. We also made the time to attend their activities. We made an effort to get to know their friends and their friends' families. I volunteered with their sports teams. We had reasonable rules. We let our kids know that we would check up on them in certain situations. We always let them know that we were their parents, not their friends. But that we were also there to support their needs, their dreams, their hopes.
Oh and to add to above, both are virgins and yes sex has been discussed also in our home. We have discussed how we would prefer they wait until marriage but have also let them know that there are options if they choose otherwise. Open discussions are effective. They know our stance on all of these issues and our reasons for them. They also know that we love them and want them to make the decisions they feel are right for them.
Peer pressure does not have to take over. In my daughter's case, when she saw her close friends from freshman and sophomore year begin to make choices she was not comfortable with, she changed her core group of friends. She is still friendly with those old friends, she just doesn't hang out with them on weekends anymore. My son managed to find a few good friends who feel the same way about things back in 6th grade, and they are still his closest friends today.
And no we are not an overly religious family. We do not attend church on a regular basis. While my daughter has become more religious over the past couple of years and now attends church fairly regularly, it was something she found for herself. It was not something we chose for her, but I wholeheartedly support her choice and often wish that I had the faith that she has.
Thank you Former WV Mom for sharing! You demonstrate exactly what I was suggesting. For one to pessimistically feel their is no way one can influence our children in positively ways, makes me really worried about those children under their care. Why should we bother with anyone then? Why should parents, teachers, and yes officers, even neighbors & siblings take the time to try to make a difference? It is unfortunate there are some in this world who just give up and do nothing or choose to threaten with baseball bats.
Research has shown for some time now reinforcing socially appropriate behavior is much more effective than punishing poor behavior. Again, the idea is to prevent the poor behavior from even occuring in the first place, as you have done with your children. There is a reason some children or teens do not listen to authority! Things have not been done right in the first place for them. Many have disserviced them before. There is a difference between creating a child and nurturing and guiding a child into a beautiful spirit who gives to the world in a positive way. I am not saying they have not had anyone good in their life, but something, someone has changed it enough. And it is for this specific reason that we need to reflect of all times now, and find what really matters in our lives if we have lost it so that we can gain our perspective for the rest of the year and be wonderful examples for the children of today. When adults have their needs and wants confused it is no wonder that children do not understand.
Christmas is important to me not only because of my faith but also because it's a time of remembrance.
Every Christmas we find ourselves stressed and rushing all over the place to fit in Christmas shopping, finding the right picture for the Christmas card and of course continue with day-to-day life of carpools and homework.
Every year I dread decorating the tree. I wonder if it's because I don't get it to look as perfect as those you see in Macy's. As I pool out the bin with ornaments, I realize why mine doesn't look like a "perfect" Macys tree. With 4 kids I have plenty of homemade ornaments along with store bought, but it's those that the kids made that find their way to the front of the tree every year.
As I open the lid to start the daunting task, an aroma overcomes me that instantly calms me. It's the smell of gingerbread ornaments that my kids made in preschool. My oldest is 12 and to this day you can still smell the cinnamon on these ornaments. As I pull out the ornaments and methodically place them on the tree I think back to when each one came home with their ornament. The ones with the kids picture on Santa's lap brings back many memories. All ones to cheerish even if one or two of the kids were afraid and screamed the whole time. Every time I pass the tree it reminds me how time has flown and the many wonderful memories we have.
In a few days the tree will come down, the memories will be put in the bin to come out for yet another perfect decorated tree of memories.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Yes, you have a perfect tree...who says Macy's is perfect in the first place. The ones decorated in the stores have no soul...they are commercial with no meaning. It is only when and ornament has meaning does it give the tree spirit. Even when they are store bought it is the meaning in them. For example I bought my niece red sparkle shoes this year. They represent the memory of meeting the munchkins this year & seeing the Wizard of Oz on the big screen that night & a few years ago in Naperville in the Park. Speaking of which, I wish they would do that again! It was sad that this summer they didn't have it. I love hanging all the ornaments of my grandparents on the tree. Don't forget to pass on to your children the memories of your ornaments. Which are your favorite & why. I often wonder the meaning of the ornaments I hang of theirs. Were they gifts of love? Did they get them from a special place? Etc. It would be so wonderful to know. Make sure your children know & pass it on.
Mom of 4,
I'm a Dad of 4 and I've since given up the task of decorating to the 2 youngest kids. It relieves the parental stress and ensures the ritual of Holiday decorating is passed along. Because of this, the older 2 do not want to be up shown and they join in as well with the younger two. It's now a family event and the Mrs. and I get to sit back and watch their creativity without the stress. They are what they are when it's all said and done and it's always beautiful. None of us want to see the tree come down, but they all four will want to ensure they pack it away 'just right' for next year.
The torch is passed. :) The beauty is they don't even realize it...
We have one especially awful ornament. My youngest son is now 20 and when in kindergarden made this red metal bell thing with his name painted on it and long ribbon streamers glued to it with gloppy glue. It always makes it to the front of the tree, and we all laugh and have a fun moment with it every year when it comes out of the box. I will never throw it away.
Now wouldn't that be a great idea for the Sun for next year. A picture gallery of our hmm favorite, meaningful ornament. :-) Nothing like embarrassing the kids a bit too huh! HA!
Here you go...you may want to attend this per our conversation. Don't know the credibility of the speakers since they did not specifically list them but there is likely to be some good ideas. If someone knows specfically then we could look at that.
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1357955,6_1_NA01_PARENTS_S1.article
This link is to the registration form for the above.
http://www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_20229_1.pdf
It has additional information as well as speakers' names. There are a variety of sessions being offered. There are even some geared toward different ages of children, from early childhood through high school. Having attended some of the Parent Universities in past years, they are usually very good. I personally believe you are never too old to learn.