Your next senator - Roland Burris?

I'm not sure who is worse, Blago for nominating Burris, or Burris for accepting - if Burris doesn't realize he is a pawn in this process he is sorely mistaken. Yet another attempt by Blago to shove this decision in the faces of Illinois voters (and the Democrats).

The state legislators blew it two weeks ago when they had their chance to bring the impeachment process further along and prevent this from happening. The Democrats were too afraid of losing a special election so they delayed the process, and now we all will pay for this decision with a long and drawn out battle over this confirmation.

I'm sure Burris knows he is a pawn, but he also knows a lot of democrats are going to look very bad if they deny him. What does he have to lose? He can play the set upon innocent black politician if he is denied the seat, and he is a U.S. Senator if he wins all the challenges he faces to take the seat. He also said in the press conference that he won't rule out running for the seat after a succesful appointment. I'm sure Burris sees this as an opportunity to resurrect his political career. If it doesn't work out, he just goes back into obscurity.

Blagojevich has just made a very clever move in the political chess game here in Illinois.

In the interest of full disclosure, Anonymouse 6:23pm was me.

Ken

By Chris Magee
Night news editor

You see, for those of us on planet Earth, Blagojevich is in disgrace, with everyone trying to get him out of office as quickly as possible before he does anything to embarrass the state further. In Blagojevich's world, he's "enjoying his time in the limelight." Seriously? Everyone in the country thinks he's a crook, and he's enjoying himself?

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Mr. Magee,

I think your youth and immaturity are beginning to show on this blog site. You are just joining the herd and stampede like the 113 legislatures.

The poll the Sun put up has 400 people supporting the Govennor's decision. About 900 against. At least we don't have a heard mentality amongst Sun readers. Thank God!

What you are forgetting Mr. Magee, is the Governor was never convicted. He has not even been indicted. The US Attorney does not even have enough evidence to indict him even though it is said a ham sandwich can be indicted by a Grad Jury. The Govenor is innocent and you are not giving him the benefit of the doubt. You have been brainwashed by a US Attorney and his statement. Quotes that Blagojevich allegedly made out of context.....etc.

If you were a bit older and more mature you would have seen how proseuctors brainwashed the public to believe 3 innocent Hispanic teenagers killed an 11 year old girl in 1983.

If you were a bit older and more mature you would have seen how
city prosecutors and 3 outside law firms brainwashed the public to believe the Napergate Man was selling liquor to minors in the 80s and 90s.

What makes you think this could not be the same kind of case? How do you know it is not? What college did you go to that told you a man is guilty upon a complaint being issued to him?

How do you know if US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has a political agenda and is trying to further it by going after an unpopular and arrogant Governor? The Nicarico prosecutors wanted an arrest in order to get the Dupage States Attorney re-elected....their boss of course who give them nice raises. They did not care if they got the right person. They just wanted to be able to say we found the killer before the election due to the massive pressure in the community at the time.

In the Napergate Case, the city was tired of the Napergate Man uncovering all the city corruption and decided to frame him so he would be spending his time defending himself instead of uncovering corruption in the city that led to very high taxation on the residents. Again the city prosecutors had alternative motives.

US Attorney PF has prosecutorial immunity so he can charge wrongfully without fear of repercussions. We have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. He is really not accountable legally if he turns out wrong which is unfair in my opinion.

Finally, Blagojevich who is legally innocent simply exercised his duties based on the 17th Amendment and appointed a Senator. He operated in a legal and lawful manner.

What you are doing Mr. Magee is jumping on the bandwagon of a sheepish herd who follow without thinking about the true legalities. You have convicted Blagojevich based on simple innuenda and heresay. You have convicted him due to his arrogance and cockiness because you were apparently brainwashed into not liking him.

This governor did nothing different than 99% of US and State Politicians. He expects favors for favors. AIPAC has padded the pockets of every US Senator and Representative except for one to induce them to vote 3 billion dollars in aid to a racist and apartheid state. How is that not illegal? We just don't care if the majority agree.

As someone in the media, Mr. Magee you need to be above this nonsense of using propoganda to convict the innocent.

Let us see what happens. Give Blagojevich a chance to be proven innocent in a court of law. Even President-elect Obama and his advisors said all their dealings with the Governor were on the up and up with no wrong doings. All they offered was appreciation and the Governor is rumored to have not been satisified with only appreciation. Not being satisfired with simply appreciation, if that was true, is not a crime. Maybe he wanted the President-elect to invite him and his wife to the White House for dinner. Is that a crime?

My point is we can not read the Governor's mind. He could have wanted a dinner with the President or maybe he was entertaining thoughts of a job offer for his wife in order to aviod bankruptcy. The first is cleary not a violation but the second could be a borderline violation. I say that because it is done all the time and it is not right to selectively enforce the law against an individual you don't like. There is I believe an Equal Rights Amendment in our constitution that prevents this unjust and unfair behavior.

Please be more sensitive to the innocent next time you write, Mr. Magee. We have had enough lynching in the past. One more is too many!

Chris, you have really posted your own disdain for the entire situation and its hard to find a question, subject or make any kind of comment other than you are right on. You are as angry as anyone who believes government should serve citizens with good stewardship of public interests and the will of the people shall prevail. That of course is not what we have in Illinois. We have politicians and government in Illinois that is solely self interest serving. It started with the corrupt machine in Chicago and Cook County. As it grew in strength, supported by those citizens in that small corner of the state, it flourished and grew in terms of scope of scheme and corruption. It spread throughout the state to the extent that now the statehouse contains these same politicans who have migrated from Chicago City Hall and the Cook County Board Room and have solidified their control over the entire state. There is no way these Democratic politicians are going to allow a special election so that we, the people they serve will elect our Senator. We are going to have to accept THEIR choice of our Senator. In my 55 years (Mimi) of life in this state, I have not been so embarrassed as when Jim Thompson held up Cathy Crowley-Webbs soiled underpants, as if to examine with the naked eye for evidence of rape. Remember that escapade? And now today with this newsconference nonsense. With one party rule Chris, you are quite correct in that nothing will change as long as people vote for the hack candidate of the party. The days of prosperity in this state are on the downward trend and the sooner we embrace it, the sooner we will be able to do something about it.

Caroline, whether or not Blagojevich is guilty, the vast majority of state residents think he is. He has an 8 percent approval rating. He is charged with auctioning off the seat he just appointed Burris to. I'm not forgetting he hasn't been convicted. What you need to acknowledge and what most people recognize is that he has lost all credibility and ability to govern. Someone who has been accused of massive corruption cannot be trusted to continue to make the same kind of decisions for which he is accused of illegal activity. Nothing he does will be viewed with any legitimacy until this cloud is removed from over his head. That's why politicians from both parties have been saying he should step aside. It's not because of a herd mentality, it is because they recognize this political fact. Our state cannot conduct business while he is in office because no one trusts him. You cannot govern without the consent of the governed, and he has lost that. There are constitutional provisions for stepping aside without permanently relinquishing the office, and this is what he should do and what he would do if he had the state's well-being in mind. Political observers from both parties also agree that Patrick Fitzgerald has no political ambitions and is a highly respected, by the book prosecutor. A comparison of him to Joe Birkett, who has run for state office multiple times, doesn't work. You invoke President-elect Obama in your argument, but you ignore that he and 50 Democratic senators have said Blagojevich should not have appointed someone to this seat. I don't know what you are referring to as an Equal Rights Amendment, but the Equal Rights Amendment had to do with women's rights and was never ratified, and I don't see how it has to do with this case. Blagojevich should not make this appointment not because he is guilty but because he is tainted by scandal, and in matters as serious as this, that's enough.
P.S. - I know you are the same person who posted as Barack and at least four or five other names in the last few days. You question me for my age, but you change genders and personalities constantly which doesn't seem very mature. The writing style is a dead giveaway. We don't have a policy against it, but don't think no one has noticed.

Caroline said:

"My point is we can not read the Governor's mind. He could have wanted a dinner with the President or maybe he was entertaining thoughts of a job offer for his wife in order to aviod bankruptcy. The first is cleary not a violation but the second could be a borderline violation. I say that because it is done all the time and it is not right to selectively enforce the law against an individual you don't like. There is I believe an Equal Rights Amendment in our constitution that prevents this unjust and unfair behavior."

Seriously? The Equal Rights Amendment in our constitution protects the rights of those that break the law and get caught to be treated the same as those that break the law and have the supposed good fortune to not get caught? Who's drinkin' the koolaid?

Let's hear the tapes, shall we, Caroline, and meet back here to see if attempted bartering of this senate seat is illegal, say as attempted armed robbery gone bad would be, or attempted murder? If the crime was intended and in the planning stages, but for some twist of fate didn't happen because evidence was gained by the policing authorities before it's carried out, isn't the perp still on the line for attempting the misdeed? Don't we have people in prison for attempting terrorism mayhem in this country but were caught before plans could be carried out? Perhaps the status quo has let some off the hook, but perhaps we are sick of the status quo and Blagojevich has been watched long and hard enough that he slipped too far down that slope and it's his time to see how this will not be tolerated. He must feel he is indestructible, but I guess he should talk to George Ryan about that type of thinking. I do agree that Blagojevich has his due process coming, but I certainly don't agree that his bad and possible illegal behavior should be put up with, as that's how politics works. Take note, lawmakers--it may be time to do some serious housekeeping and walk the ethical path. Am I drinking the koolaid? Perhaps, but I think there are a lot of us out here that are ready to see the housekeeping take place.

George Ryan just recently, after years and years, apologized for his role in the whole CDL license scandal. Interesting how that happened as he looks for a commutation of his sentence. Ryan has long and hard proclaimed his innocence and lack of responsibility with his scandals, I guess he's getting sick of incarceration, no? Blagojevich should have taken note of Ryan's situation years ago.

Caroline is VERY CORRECT.

Who knows what Patrick Fitzgerald's real motivations are. I think that Roland Burris should change Federal law to eliminate making comments during interrogations by Federal employees a crime IF you are not convicted of the original charge. This is how Scooter Libby was convicted, not based on the original charge (and rightfully pardoned). It is also how Fitzgerald has obtained as many as a third of his convictions.

Understand the severity of this tactic. You are drilled for hours. One slip, one inconsitency, one contradiction, indictment. This happens with legal representation. You are not be under oath in these "interviews" (witchhunts). Only those comments to a bona fide grand jury and actual court hearing should be considered. Or you should have the unequivical right not to talk to Federal investigators (FBI, IRS, etc).

This situation, exploited by Fitzgerald, challenges our rights. That is why he does not want Emmanual or Jarrett to testify in the impeachment proceedings. He controls the information.

And for the rest including Chris, the REAL motivation of the Illinois politicians is to cast aside Blagojevich and double, even triple our income taxes. And we are being led like sheep to the slaughter. And comments like the Sun's invigorate this mass suicide. How about some better reporting? This is the reason that the newspapers including the Sun are going bankrupt. POOR REPORTING. Get some facts, ask some hard questions.

WAKE UP!!!!

And so the games continue - interesting how some posters berate others for being anonymous and yet use multiple identities and genders to hide. If you want to use multiple identities to blog, fine but don't chide others for not being open and above board.

Ann E.

I am assuming you were one of the ones who jumped on the bandwagon when the Nicario 3 were put on death row and awaiting execution even though they were innocent of killing that 11 year old girl. They were found guilty 3 times and it took pressure from Northwestern University Professors and law students to finally expose the framing and lynching executed by our Dupage Prosecutors? I don't see you condemning this injustice or giving a hoot about it even though I mentioned it as an example. I hope you understand some of your tax dollars went to satisfy that 12 million dollar judgment Cruz received. Don't recall how many millions the other 2 received. Hermandez must have got a nice chunck as he walked out of prison pretty messed up and in a total zomby state after 12 years of his 80 year sentence. His sentence was reduced from death to life by a 3rd jury. How shameful 6 independent juries can convict 2 innocent men 6 times and we consider our defensive about being called a sheep herdish society with you ANN. E being a perfect example.

I am also assuming you were one of the ones who jumped on the Napergate Man when the city chased after him for no good reason. No condemnation here either despite mentioning it as an example. Do you care about your tax dollars wasted in this case too?

I think you are hinting that because former Governor Ryan was found guilty, we must assume and conclude that Blagojevich will be found guilty. How illiterate, ingnorant, and immature of you to jump to such illogical conclusions.

Be assured if I am selected to the jury of Blagojevich I will find him innocent if he is innocent even if the other 11 jurors stampede to convict him. You would probably join the majority in a herdish mentality and convict an innocent person because you appear gutless and clueless. Get some spine, girl!

Caroline, Barack, Anonymous, the list of your names continues, I'm sure...please re-read what I wrote.

I was referring to your statement about the Equal Rights Amendment protecting politicians that may act illegally being ok, because politicians have always acted this way and to single one out now would be unfair treatment? I had to re-read that a number of times to believe it was meant as written, but I did not call you out about it with name calling. Right?

Didn't I say we should hear the tapes and meet back here? Is that convicting the man, or wanting to hear the evidence to know better? Didn't what I wrote state that planned illegal behavior, whether carried out or not is still illegal behavior, if evidence will convict, as an example of what might be? Didn't I state that Blagojevich deserves his due process, but that he perhaps should have been more careful for the past years, as the investigation into his behavior MAY be catching up with him? Didn't I say that he perhaps should have paid more attention to George Ryan's circumstances as far as possibly keeping his behavior on the up and up, as this is the way things may be going with prosecuting corruption? Didn't I say that his bad and POSSIBLE illegal behavior shouldn't be put up with? Reading more carefully may work better for comprehension.

Bottom line is, I wrote about Blagojevich's bad and possible illegal behavior, but you must have not read correctly and went off, putting words in my post. I have not said that Blagojevich is guilty, I stated my opinion as to what might be. I am so close to writing a very rude comment, but I won't— even with reading your rude remarks toward me. I've asked you before, Barack, do I sound uneducated? Unsuccessful? Like a high school dropout?

And, Barack, did I call you any name whatsoever except Caroline? (Caroline/Barack/Anonymous said: "How illiterate, ingnorant, and immature of you to jump to such illogical conclusions.")You had yourself all tied up in knots previously because people were attacking you and calling you names as Barack, but allowing Caroline to do the same is ok? Nice. Sybilly fantastic.

Anonymous,
The Host accused me of being Barack because I stole the herdish sheep mentality sentence from his post. I liked it. I should have given him credit but since this is an Anonymous blog site, I did not feel I needed to waste my time giving an unknown Anonymous credit for using a phrase he used. I did not know you could committ plagiarism on an Anonymous Blog Site. If you can't, I am guilty of plagiarism for not crediting him for using his clever phrase.

All the Host had to do is take the time to check my IP address against Barack's IP address and he would have realized we were not the same person.

He unfortunately did not take the time to check.

He was mad at me because I criticized him and he took a stab at me. I was a little harsh on him because I did feel he was following the herd to conclusions. And 400 people on his own newspaper poll also disagreed with him. Maybe he thinks these 400 people are all me since he has stated in the past he can not believe that anyone would support Blagojevich. Sorry, but Blagojevich has many supporters unless someone can manipulate this Sun Poll and be 400 people. Mr. Magee would know if it can be manipulated. I really don't know. If the 400 people can be one person, than the 900 people could be one person also. Why run these polls if we can not make sure they are authentic and reliable?

That's cool that Mr. Magee tried to retaliate against me because I felt he was an inexperienced editor. When he is 50, he will realize he was inexperienced at 20 something, and he will understand what I am talking about.

I took a stab at Mr. Magee and he took a stab at me. Fair is fair! But the truth can be found in the IP addresses the Sun possesses. I don't have access so I can not prove my innocence. I have been blogging as Caroline for over 2 years and have blogged over 50 times under that name and only used that name.

I see you convicted me without any proof, Anonymous. You seem to have the same sheepish herdish mentality that is prevalent on this blog site. Instead of convicting me, challenge Mr. Magee to copy and post the IP addresses and prove I am Barack or who ever he is alleging I am. He could never do it because I am not Barack. However, I admired Barack because he was an out of the box thinker. I like to see more bloggers think out of the box.

Our society in general is stuck in the box and believes anything the media wants them to believe. They are very gullible.

I love Barack's example of how we are brainwashed to believe the State of Israel is a moral state. The rest of the world thinks it is a racist and apartheid state who kills innoncent Palestinians after stealing their land. It was once declared a racist state by the United Nation but under pressure by the US withdrew the declaration. The UN voted 181-2 on Resolution 242 and demanded the Israelis return the occupied lands they stole. What do they do?
Colonalize the occupied territories.

How did they get away with this? Simple! The USA possess VETO POWER in the UN and exercises it often to save this racist and apartheid state known as Israel. Why does the US support Israel in this blind and blatant manner? Simple! Because our US Senators and Representatives are corrupt and "pay to play." Yes they take millions of dollars from Israelis thru AIPAC and in turn approve 3 billion dollar of military aid. What an injustice? And we are worried about Blagojevich wanting a little more than appreciation....lol!

The Herd Will Be Fooled's writing style is also the same as Barack/Caroline/Anonymous. Caroline, you are agreeing with your own post with another name? As I told you before Barack, your posts may be more readable without all the exclamation points, especially always closing with one.

Kind of creepy, IMO.

Caroline, I could list about ten unique and unusual writing styles from all of the posts by your many aliases that are the same. I read stories nine hours a day, five days a week. I know when I am reading something by the same person. While the IP addresses are not exactly the same, the first two sets of digits are the same. I asked one of our web people about this and he said that it is likely someone with multiple computers in the same house would have similar IP addresses like this. Barack stated in the past that he had four computers. I don't want this subject to get off track arguing about who is who so this is the last time I'll mention it. I'm sure anyone who reads these blogs often can see the many glaring similarities. Here's one hint - the random and totally off topic rants against Israel are one giveaway. You can post under whatever name you want, but if you're going to make multiple posts in support of yourself on the same thread, that's a little shady.

By ANN E. on December 31, 2008 12:50 AM
The Herd Will Be Fooled's writing style is also the same as Barack/Caroline/Anonymous. Caroline, you are agreeing with your own post with another name? As I told you before Barack, your posts may be more readable without all the exclamation points, especially always closing with one.

Kind of creepy, IMO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This really shows how illiterate you are ANN E. There is no similarlity in style between me and the Herd Will Be Fooled. The real problem here is the majority does not want any dissent and will label all dissent as one voice.

I urge and challenge Mr. Magee to produce the IP addresses of both the Herd and I. He could easily prove we are not the same person.

And if you have 4 computers in one house they will have the same IP address unless you are willing to pay for 4 subscriptions. That is a well know fact. Wireless computers that feed off the main computer all have the same exact IP address....not just the first 2 numbers. Even the Web guy who is very Establishment will verify that. Maybe OJ knows something about the subject. My knowledge is limited to what I read on this blog site, unfortunately.

I do believe that everyone say with comcast will have the same exact first 2 digits. And everyone with sbcglobal will also have the same first 2 digits. So thousands of people who subcribe to the same service will have the same first 2 digits. The Sun guy who is advising Mr. Magee in my opinion is wrong and misleading Mr. Magee.

Sorry, I am only me. I am a little surprised Mr. Magee only thinks one person in Naperville is against the State of Israel. There are hundreds of Napervillians against the State of Israel connected by a multiple church Web Site known as END THE OCCUPATION. It is a very active web site with a very large membership and growing. They demonstrate on the Washington Bridge in downtown Naperville once a month.

I think you guys live in a dream world and you are surprised if 2 or more disagree with you. I think you need to smell the coffee at some point and face reality that not all bloggers are willing to join the herd mentality some bloggers are pushing for here.

You can post under whatever name you want, but if you're going to make multiple posts in support of yourself on the same thread, that's a little shady.

====================================================================

I have only posted under Caroline on this thread.....period.

I did not write under multiple names to support myself.

I have no clue who the Herd Will Be Fooled is.

Tell me what unique and unusual style you see between the Herd and I. I see absolutely none other than we both use paragraphs which is proper English. So does Ann.E. Yes, we have similar views but so do most people including Glock 22, Ann.E and you.

Why don't you take a second look at his/her IP address and I am sure you will be able to tell we are not the same person. Maybe you can decipher the first 2 numbers and there should be a 90% chance we don't even use the same carrier as I believe there must be 10 carriers out there.

I think having an expert go over and track the IP address is the only way you will be convinced that you are wrong when you say we have unique and unusual styles and that I am simply patting myself on the back. It is nice that one person agreed with me.

Glock 22 agreed with you and complemented you. Did I accuse you of being him for that simple reason? Let us be fair here, Mr. Magee.
Glock 22 and you wrote posts that looked very similar. Glock 22 also said you were very correct. He only used one large paragraph as you did. Does that make you, him, patting yourself on the back?
I doubt he is you or you are him. So please don't accuse me of being someone else or someone else of being me just because we use paragraphs, have similar opinions and possibly agree with each other.

I am sure Herd Will Be Fooled will come on tomorrow and tell you he is not Caroline. I have to believe you think we are the same person because we were both harsh on the media. That is nonsense! Sorry!

Have your web tech guy do a little more research and trace my IP number and his. I guarantee you that you will be surprised how wrong you were in your erroneous conclusions that I am bloggin on this thread using multiple posts in support of myself and being shady.

And really if I was trying to be multiple people to pat myself on the back I would not blog under Caroline a half a dozen times on the same thread.....and especially if I knew how to manipulate an IP number which I don't know how.

Fine, I guess we have to settle this before we can move on. I did a partial search since it would take me all night to record all the matches. Here are some people who posted from the same IP address as Caroline starting Dec. 21, 2007 through Jan. 7, 2008:
Caroline: 75.57.78.149 also 75.57.135.34
Debbie: 75.57.135.34
Liebert/Lierbert: 75.57.135.34
Huntington Estates Resident: 75.57.135.34
Marybeth: 75.57.135.34
Maryann: 75.57.135.34
Adam: 75.57.135.34
Marshall: 75.57.135.34
Robert: 75.57.135.34
Cindy: 75.57.135.34
Jessica: 75.57.135.34
Dor: 75.57.135.34
Blake: 75.57.135.34
James: 75.57.135.34
Ameena: 75.57.135.34
Martha: 75.57.135.34
Concerned Taxpayer: 75.57.135.34
Elizabeth: 75.57.135.34
Marilyn: 75.57.135.34
Jackson: 75.57.135.34
Randy: 75.57.135.34
Walter J.: 75.57.135.34
Huntington Estates Lady: 75.57.135.34
Confused in Naperville: 75.57.135.34
McFarland: 75.57.135.34
Sandy: 75.57.135.34
June: 75.57.135.34
Jenny: 75.57.135.34
Terri: 75.57.135.34
Eric: 75.57.135.34
Melissa: 75.57.135.34

Here are some that match Caroline from Feb. 5-7, 2008
Caroline: 75.57.118.163
Becky: 75.57.118.163
Beilen: 75.57.118.163
Scott: 75.57.118.163
Lucas: 75.57.118.163
Nikki: 75.57.118.163
Marshall: 75.57.118.163
Marybeth: 75.57.118.163
Rachel: 75.57.118.163
Deanna: 75.57.118.163
Vicky: 75.57.118.163
Police Officer: 75.57.118.163
Todd: 75.57.118.163
Sharon: 75.57.118.163
Kathleen: 75.57.118.163
Randy: 75.57.118.163
Patricia: 75.57.118.163
Victoria: 75.57.118.163
Ameena: 75.57.118.163

Here are some more recent examples:
Howard: 75.57.130.178
Anonymous: 75.57.130.178
Diana: 75.57.130.178
Barack: 75.57.130.178
Barack: 75.57.81.237
Downtown Rents are High but still Subsidized: 75.57.81.237

I think I've made my point.

So much for the Napergatians claiming such high numbers. LOL!
To think, they are the ones always claiming to have so much credibility.

And here is me, foolishly thinking this town is full of Napergatians with often questionable logic and it was Sybil all along!

This kind of multiple identity issue with some of the names being notorious for stirring up trouble here makes any kind of real conversation impossible, with the troll taking over topics. I find it quite disturbing also that it's this extensive, but I'm not surprised that the same personality and dynamics are in play with the different arguments that erupt here. I won't attempt to diagnose the behavior, I'm sure we all get the picture.

I won't feed the troll. I did converse with Barack on what I thought was a heartfelt level just before he poofed, took his toys and went home, but you know what they say about trick me once, trick me twice.

I don't have that much to say anyway, I just get fired up at times when such nonsense is spewed as to be totally fantastic and without reason AND when false superiority and disrespect is flung around with total abandon and disregard.

Peace, it's just not worth spending precious life and time posting and participating in false conversation.

Caroline (and/or your many other personalities) –

I really don’t care what name you post under, but you should have some respect for our Host and the other people on this thread. Calling people immature or illiterate is unnecessary and uncalled for. If you want to make a point, make it. But don’t make the mistake that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow an idiot, illiterate, or even wrong. They simply disagree and are entitled to their opinions.

Now, as to the Gov…you’re as correct about him being innocent until proven guilty as you are wrong about there being an Equal Rights Amendment to our Constitution. However, elected officials are held to a high standard. Even if you were to believe the Gov’s attorney that this was “just talk” and not a crime, the Gov has an obligation to the people of Illinois to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Given that his “talk” leads almost everyone in the nation to believe something is wrong in the State of Illinois, the Gov should have recused himself from this selection process.

I don’t know why you went on about our US Attorney, but I haven’t heard anyone question his motives before. In fact, even before the Blago case he was rumored to be on his way to DC as a promotion within the Dept of Justice. He is widely regarding as one of the best prosecutors of terrorist cases (both here and in NY), and is also known for a terrific work ethic.

You are correct that Blago hasn’t been indicted yet, but I think you’re mistaken in believing this means there’s some problem indicting the Gov. Many of the political commentators in the city have stated they believe an eventual indictment will include more charges that the original criminal complaint for which the Gov was arrested.

As for your rant about Israel, there’s plenty to disagree with on this issue but that would be far off topic for this thread.

T.B.

Mr. Magee,

What you have published is all the bloggers Establishment, Napergatian and Independent who all use the same service that being SBC global.

I use SBC global. SBC global may have been giving you the same number for all their customers at one time. It appears maybe they are giving each person a unique IP number now.

Here is my IP number 75.57.78.149 right off my computer. You can verify it if you like.

You accused me of being Barack. Here are Baracks: 75.57.81.237 and 75.57.130.178 Maybe your web site is not capturing the proper IP numbers for bloggers. Possibly a glitch in your programs. Unless this Barack guy is crazy enough to pay for 2 subscriptions.

Now how could I be him if we have differnt IP numbers. Yet you stated you could tell because we have similar styles of writing. But the IP numbers are proof that your conclusion that we are the same person is wrong and you can not tell from styles of writing that you allege have some similarities.

Because we both agree Israel is a racist and apartheid state you assume we are the same person. The United Nations once felt that way too and most of the 6 billion people on this earth feel that way with the exception of most Americans.

Just like you made your point, I made my point. I was accused of being Barack but your evidence proved I am not Barack. This all assumes your evidnence is accurate of course which is questionable.

I also think you should post recent IP numbers since many of the services started assigning individual IP numbers instead of a common one that only the recepient sees as appears to have been past practice of some of the IP providers. It seems to me like the providers may have been protecting the IP addresses of the posters by only giving you the same common one for everyone from the same provider. With more internet security now, it seems like they are providing you with individual and unique IP numbers for each individual. I would have liked to see a larger sampling of recent IP numbers since you took over instead of old ones when a different system was in use by the Providers. Would you consider providing the last 200-400 IP numbers of all posters without exception unedited and uncensored so we can see who is who from all parties and see who may be using multiple names. That is a more fair way to do it instead of singling out a certain group by being selective in the names you choose.

And since I was accused of being specifically the "Herd Will Not be Fooled" why not post that specific IP number and compare it to mine. I think you selectively handpicked certain IPs to make your point while selectively ignoring certain IPs that would contradict your point. I think we all know from bloggers who have posted here that there is no rational or reason to IP numbers and the policies of providers are different and vary from each other. Some providers give you the same number for all bloggers and some give you individual numbers for each blogger. Some like SBC global appears to have progressed from showing the recipient the same IP number for all users to showing a secure individual IP number for each user. I once got a bulletin with my bill to that effect a while back and you certainly have enough data to show if this change took some place sometime in 2008. I recall I got my notice in mid-year about the change but can't remember exactly when. I guess you would know more than anyone else when SBC changed over from showing one number for all recipients to individual numbers for each person to the recipient. My guess is it was some time this summer that they made their change. I believe every user always had his own IP number but when it went to the recipient, the recipient only saw a standard IP number indicating which provider it was but not which unique user of SBC it was.

You kind of did what US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald did. You took IP numbers out of context and looked for ones that would help to make your point. Since IP numbers for some services now cycle they can also jump from person to person from time to time allowing different people to have the same IP numbers. But I doubt the "Herd Will Not be Fooled" could get my IP number within the short minutes that separated our posts.

My hanlde that I use consistently according to your records has 4 IP numbers over a year's time. That surprises me. Therefore I have to conclude these IP numbers are sometimes circulated from one person to another and different people who are with the same service will eventually get the same IP number....the smaller the pool the more likely people will eventually get the same number.

With all due respect, I don't think you made your point Mr. Magee. You went into cirlces and history.

I was accused of being "Herd Will Not be Fooled" and patting myself on the back by you and others on this blog site. You were all wrong but only you knew 100% that you were all wrong after alleging to be able to decipher writing styles. Wow! Rather than publish the 2 different IP numbers most probably from 2 different services and letting the bloggers know we are not the same person, you went all over the place looking for obsolete data that would prove your point in your mind, instead of going for the HARD CORE DATA right on this thread at your personal disposal that would prove BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that I was not being 2 persons on this thread and patting myself on my back as the charge was.

I even blogged on another thread yesterday under my same handle of Caroline. I blogged many months under my same handle of Caroline many times before. Over 50-100 for sure! While I did not ever change my name, SBC Global changed my IP address at least 4 times without my knowledge or permission. They did not even care to notify me. At least when a phone company changes your phone number they at least notify you. Go figure!

In summary, I don't think this IP stuff has any reason or rationale to it. Sometimes they give you the same number for everyone as they are apparently attempting to protect the bloggers addresses. Other times or other services give you cycling IP numbers where the same person may not have the same number from blog to blog. And other bloggers will get the same exact IP number as it cycles from user to user.

I suspect 75-57 is the IP address for everyone who uses SBC Global and lives in Naperville as I do. There may be thousands of us. Maybe you can ask your SBC bloggers to volunteer their first 4 digits to see if this is the case. The current IP numbers I suspect are now cycling. At one time it appears SBC Global gave you, the Sun, th same number for every user which may have been its past practice but appears to no longer be its current practice.

Anyway, I did not want to get this deep into it. I simply wanted you to tell the bloggers who were accusing me of being "Herd Will Not be Fooled" that I was not that person. I knew you had the proof but you refused to provide it. All I wanted you to do is show your bloggers including ANN.E who accused me wrongfully, that they were wrong. You refused to provide the IP # of the Herd which would have most certainly vindicated me! You showed that you are human and when wrong you don't like to admit it. You showed that while you are mostly fair and unbiased your have weaknesses like all humans and at times can be biased to protect the reputation of the Establishment Bloggers who were all wrong in this case with all their false accusations. I hope you reconsider your decision today and tell all the Establishment Believers that I was not Herd and they infact all jumped to a wrongful conclusion like a herd of sheep. Herd may have picked up on my Herd of Sheep language from a prior blog and used it.....and suddenly I am him or her....goodness gracious. And I am not the first or last one in this world to use the phrase herd of sheep. I thought it was quite common.

Another way you could have proved I was not that HERD person is to check my IP number on the post right before and after his/hers. If I had the same IP number right before his/her post and right after his/her post and he/she had a different one it be impossible for us to have been the same person. IMPOSSIBLE in all scenarios whether you are with a service that lets you hold your IP for a year, for 24 hours, for one hour or automatically cycles IP numbers every few minutes or whatever length of time. And maybe he/she is not even with the same provider and his first 2 digits are even different. I hope the Herd posts his/her IP number in case Mr. Magee is to busy to look them up.

I urge you not to constantly favor the establishment and use IP numbers generously instead of selectively to let them know they are wrong at times. I don't see anything wrong with Barack posting as "Downtown Rents are High But Still Subdized" on an unrelated thread. He was not doing that to pat himself on the back. He was simply being informative and possibly using a differnt handle on a different thread if we understand how to interpret IP numbers. Many people asked him to change his handle so he will get his message across better. He does exaclty that and now he is called on it. Why! Is that not what we all wanted! Is he held to a higher standard because he is an Independent and Agnositc instead of Establishment and Christian as it seems you should be if you live in Naperville.

Why don't you tell us how many Establishment anti-Blagojevich bloggers have posted under different handles since this blog site started. I bet they have been just as bad as the pro-Blagojevich bloggers. Human nature is human nature and you will find it on both sides of any debate if you look for it. Just as corruption is rampant amongst politicians it apparently can be rampant amongst certain bloggers. But to try to expose one side while allowing bloggers to think the other side is perfect is really not appropriate.

Why we all care so much since all of us are Anonymous is puzzling to me. TB defends his 2 letters as if the whole world knew who he was. No one knows who he is! One Who Values You fantasises this is one of his classes. Barack wants to preach Agnosticism to Anonymous Bloggers. Every Anonymous defends himself/herself even though over 100 people use Anonymous to blog. Mr Magee is checking IP numbers of Keyboard Rambos as if that would make them come to life.

It is all been interesting to say the least. I can see why only 2 bloggers have had the courage to use their real names in over 2 years. I salute Council Man Bob and Thom Higgins for being so courageous to subject themselves to personal attacks. But due to some ironic twist they seem both to be respected by almost everyone. I guess some Dan D blogger has given Mr. Higgins quite a battering from time to time. But at least Mr. Higgins knows who Dan D is in the real world and can fight back.

Sorry about the long blog. I just don't like to be accused wrongfully as blogging as someone else on the same thread and patting myself on the back when no such thing ever happened. I was a little disappointed you did not provide the proof to vindicate me. Maybe today you will be in a good mood and vindicate me.

Anyway thanks for allowing me to defend myself on your blog site, Mr. Magee. I can say one thing about you is that you are a young but tough man who can take criticism while dishing it out. You could have easily censored all my blogs. You chose not to. Thanks for that.

And for the record, I have never had a post censored on this blog site despite what I said. I think that speaks highly about this blog site and why it is the most successful blog site in Chicagoland. Let us keep it that way.

Keep up the good work, Mr. Magee and thank you!

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PS. If this Blogger Ann E. had half a brain she would have noticed I like to end with one exclamation point while Herd ended by capitalizing and using 4 exclamation points. Even if 2 bloggers ended with an exclamation point that is highly a criteria to conclude they are the same person! Maybe 2 people that end with a question mark are also the same person? Maybe all the people that end with periods are also the same person. I am sorry Ann E. but you accused me and attacked me for no reason and I am going to call you out for the fool you are. And you are very lucky that Mr. Magee does not want to beat a dead horse by providing you with the Herd's IP number which would prove beyond a doubt that you have no clue what you are talking about and are incapable of deciphering bloggers from handwriting styles. Maybe next time you will make a fool of yourself again and tell us you can read palms for $10 dollars. Well, don't count on me to be your customer....look for some fools! And eat your heart out if you don't like my exclamation points. I lke using them and will continue using them while you read palms.

To "The Herd Will Be Fooled" –

“Who knows what Patrick Fitzgerald's real motivations are.” Just because you don’t know the US Attorney’s motives, you believe they’re somehow sinister? Do you know something we don’t?

You think Burris should challenge federal law that makes lying to investigators a crime? What standing does Burris have to challenge this law? To challenge a law, you generally have to be charged with it first. Has he been accused of violating the law and it hasn’t been reported somewhere?

If the law were changed in the fashion you suggest, then anyone could lie their way out of a crime, get off the hook for the original crime and also the lies, too. Did it ever occur to you that maybe Libby’s lies may have prevented the prosecution of the original crime under investigation? There has to be repercussions to lying during an investigation. It's immoral and wastes taxpayer money.

“It is also how Fitzgerald has obtained as many as a third of his convictions.” Where did you get this statistic? A charge of making false statements to federal agents (Title 18 Section 1001) is actually a very infrequently used charge. One inconsistent statement will not get you indicted. And you do have the right to refuse to speak with federal investigators IF you believe doing so may incriminate yourself. It’s called the 5th Amendment.

Lastly, you stated “Get some facts, ask some hard questions.” Yes, I suggest you get some facts before making such accusations again.

T.B.

I think a special election is the way to go. It is never a good idea for one person to hold so much power (Gov Blago to appoint our senator), whether he is guilty of the charges against him or not. Mr. Burris is foolish to have accepted. To me, he looked positively gleeful on the news broadcasts I saw yesterday. He may be the best candidate -- I'd just like to see all of us have a chance to ELECT him, not someone who is currently disgraced APPOINT him.

Host Chris –

I took your list of IP addresses from your 2:22 a.m. post and looked them up at http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/lookup-results and about all that I could conclude was they are all SBC IP addresses.

I’m no expert on IP addresses, but could it be just that all these posts were sent through the same SBC servers or something of that nature (the technical details of which I do not know)?

Just a thought.

T.B.

I wonder if the U.S. Senate can come through as they say and reject Burris (and any other Blago appointee) as promised? I also wonder if the U.S. Senate has the power to force Illinois to hold an election - this could be a time where cutting ground legislation is passed and implemented.

As for Caroline / Barak. Perhaps this is why the Napergate movement hasn't done anything in years - they are all the same person? I remember McFarland going on and on about how Napergatians are proud of their user names and "most probably" would never post under another name!! Whenever I would question the grammer or syntax I would get a number of them(Maryann, Sandy, Patricia) all criticizing my questioning that the posts all use similar styles. I started calling Barak "puppy dog", someone else suggested "Sybil", but this list takes it past the point of being creepy, and actually would be an insult to the real Sybil- I guess there is no finer example that the internet is full of anonymous users and we should keep this in mind. I'm sure Caroline will now point out that all of these people simply spend time "bloggin at the Dunkin donuts"?

To: Caroline/Barak/MaryAnn/Sybill/et al.,

The Equal Rights Amendment is not a part of the United States Constitution as it has never been ratified by enough states to include it. However, even if it had been ratified and made a part of that document, it would clearly not have any bearing on the matter at hand. THE ERA solely dealt with the infringement of rights solely on the basis of sex. Just to be clear, the entire amendment is shown below. The information came from the following link: http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.

Ahahahaha... so Barack is Diana? Chris, you just made my day. Haven't laughed this hard in quite a while.

You're never going to win with these Napergate nuts who can take anything and somehow link it to a liquor license in 1993. It reminds me of playing the six degrees of Kevin Bacon where any movie/actor can be linked to Kevin Bacon inside of six movies/actors.

We can even link the Napergate Man to Sasquatch.

The Napergate Man's dog's name is Abby. Abbe Augustin Barruel published the first conspiracy theory regarding the illuminati in 1797. The illuminati secretly control everything in the world including the weather. The Weather Underground had many members including University of Chicago professor Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers knows Barack Obama, first black president in history. History Channel airs countless specials on Sasquatch.

I anxiously await the next meeting at Dunkin Donuts now that I have revealed this shocking revelation of the Napergate Man being directly linked to Sasquatch.

Try playing the six degrees of Napergate, you'd be amazed at the seemingly unlimited number of things you can make Napergate relevant to in only six steps!

Caroline, I never said you were The Herd will be Followed. That IP address is different. There's no point in me arguing with you about your identity though because you already know if it's true or not so it's not like I can convince you. If you want more evidence I can get it but I'd think you'd want to drop the subject. Anyone else who wants to talk about multiple ids, please take it to the "Update on the Rules" blog. I'd like to salvage this topic if I can.

I like how Caroline took the time to draft an epic diatribe on how she thinks IP addresses work but never took the time to do a simple Google search for any of the countless rudimentary guides on how the internet and IP addresses actually work.

I've given up explaining it. You can check the updated rules thread if you want to read how IP address work and the Napergate clan "proving" me wrong.

Industry expertise and years of working in IT apparently makes me some kind of idiot compared to the Napergate arm chair experts on every topic known to man, even with things I've spent decades working with!

Napergatians are like Scientologists, there's no way to beat them, you just have to join them. Because of this, I concede to the Napergate Man as my new overlord... and welcome my new battle cry- "FOR NAPERGATE!"

Diane G -

What price should we pay for our next Senator? Is $50 million for a special election for a two-year position (and another election then) worth it when the State is behind on Medicaid bills? I'm on the fence whether this is worth the cost.

I don't have a problem with an appointed Senator, just as long as Blago didn't do the appointing.

**********

Caroline et al –

Whether or not Chris is right about the IP addresses, I now think you’re certifiable.

T.B.

Illinois' U.S. Senate position is too valuable to be wasted. And all of us citizens in Illinois need representation. Yes, the state is behind on bills -- as is just about every government entity (and many individuals) these days. The problem with appointing someone now (for the remainder of the 2 year term) is that person will most likely seek reelection and we know incumbents often have an edge in a general election. If we must have an appointed senator, maybe our state legislature could do the appointing -- not the gov?

Diane G. has a good point. Incumbents almost always win re-election unless they seriously screw up. The only exception is when the senator is from the party that is not in favor in the state at the time, and there's little question that our next senator will be a Democrat, the party with a stranglehold on the state at the moment, so he or she would almost certainly win re-election. I know I probably won't like anyone the Legislature picks, but it will at least appear honest, and that's what we really need here. The Legislature has to pass a law to change the system though and they have been unable to do that so far. Senators in the past were elected by the state legislature. There was a constitutional amendment somewhere around 1913 that changed it to direct election. I'd think they could pass a special law for an appointment like this though. You'd have to ask a constitutional expert to be sure though; it might not be allowed.

Here is the 17th Amendment to the Constitution:
(Ratified April 8, 1913)

"The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution."

It clearly says that in the event of a vacancy, the executive can fill the vacancy. But that line about "provided that the legislature may empower the executive to make appointments" would seem to be the gray area.

Caroline was probably referring to the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Personally, I would like to see all positions filled by special election just for the reason that Blagojevich has made so painfully clear. The people's will is never followed when someone is appointed. The person who can most benifite the appointer is always the appointee.

FIRSTENAU FOR SENATE! The Napergate nutjobs will win the oval office for him in 2016! Bagojevich will be his chief of staff. An all Napergate cabinet. They can all sit around and complain that whatever anyone does is wrong but take no action themselves. Caroline will be Sec. of State. Doug Krause will be the treasury Sec. and will only be working on how to get elected to a higher office. Illinois political future sure is looking bright!! The best hair ticket ever in the history of the state! FIRSTENAU FOR SENATE!

By Naperville Sun editors on December 31, 2008 11:00 AM
Caroline, I never said you were The Herd will be Followed. That IP address is different.

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Mr. Magee,

Thank you!

The above information would have solved the problem and debate that ensued late night. That is all I was asking for. It would have proved me right and all my accusers wrong. No, you did not accuse me of being the "Herd Will Be Followed" but just about everyone else on this thread did and went on a bull herd rampage. You did imply that if that was the case, this may be a shady practice which you would not look favorably at especially on the same thread. I totally agree with you. However, you could have stopped the bull stampede early by reavealing this person who gave me a complement was not me.

It shows you how smart ANN E. and her herd of sheep were who claimed they could tell from handwritng, stlyes and exclamation points that we were the same person. Lol! Anyway I just want to call her out for her false accusations and set the record straight.

One thing is for certain, Mr. Magee, that we can both agree on for sure. I was only blogging on this thread using my one handle(used it many times) and never used another handle to pat myself on the back as some Establishment Folks do while claiming alleging I did.

Thanks for finally providing the tiny bit of information that I was looking for so that we could solve this mystery and prove the Establishment Bloggers all wrong.

Did you notice how they all continued to jump on me except for TB who appears to have more common sense than the rest of them and is at least making an attempt to think? Kudos to TB!

What I have learned from being on this blog site, is that if bloggers use the same server they will have the same IP number if the provider chooses not to reveal the identities of individual user IP addresses for security or other reasons. I believe this subject was already brushed on a bit during Host Ted's tenure here. The Establshment folks tend to have very short memories unfortunately.

It does not surprise me that 50 of 300 Napergate Bloggers would be SBC Global customers. SBC is very large and may even incorporate ATT and Ameritech as I believe all these companies may have merged sometime in the past.

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PS. Just for the record, it was not me who got us all off topic but all my Establishment accusers who like a herd of sheep wrongfully assumed I was "Herd Will Be Followed." I was 100% on the subject topic while at least a dozen bloggers threw false accusations at me. But in an ironic twist to prove my point, this could show you how so many Illinoians took the statement of US Attorney PF as fact and followed him like a herd of sheep follows their shephard to anywhere....even to their slaughter. How very, very sad!

"What I have learned from being on this blog site, is that if bloggers use the same server they will have the same IP number if the provider chooses not to reveal the identities of individual user IP addresses for security or other reasons. I believe this subject was already brushed on a bit during Host Ted's tenure here. The Establshment folks tend to have very short memories unfortunately."

And apparently in the wacky land of Napergate where down is up, up is down, John McCain won the election, and Bob Barker still hosts The Price is Right, the internet works in strange and mysterious ways.

Please, do some research on how IP addresses work before the post again for the love of Napergate god, please.

DAMN THE MAN! DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT! FURSTENAU FOR KING OF EARTH!

As I said, please discuss this on the Rules thread so this one stays on subject.

Caroline on December 31, 2008 3:50 PM

Did you miss the posting by host Chris that proved you were at least 40-50 different bloggers? He also, as I have, indicates and points out your obvious uses of language as a telltale sign that the same author (you) is responsible for many postings. Are you really making the case that Every user of SBC's has the same IP address? Or at least in your case apparently every Napergate member uses SBC and coincidently has the same IP address? Sounds like a conspiracy.

The only reason I am posting to you is that ironically you exhibit the same behavior as our beloved Governor Blago. When confronted with the facts you continue to deny them. All of his colleagues (in our case bloggers) no longer take him seriously, and from now on anytime the word Napergate is written we will all just pass over it as your list of aliases grows. As Ken mentioned previously you made no attempt to distance yourself from the proof, other than make the case that you weren't "Herd will be followed". Ok I think we will all concede this one - how about the other 50? To use some of your previous words I think you have been doing this just to "get your rises".

Sorry to go off topic.

I read today that Secretary of state Jesse White is refusing to seat Burris, something I was not aware the state requires. If this doesn't happen then his nomination can not be brought to the Senate. Once blago is ousted (something the democrats failed to do in a timely manner - politics) then Quinn is apparently going to appoint someone. The only thing better in this story would have been if Blago appointed someone like Oberweis to the position - the guy can't ever win an election and it would have been a way for Blago to really stick it to Illinois. Oberweis probably would have paid Blago's legal fees as well.

Burris couldn't win elections either. He lost three times trying for governor. He at least was comptroller though, which is more than Oberweis has ever done.

By Web Guy on December 31, 2008 11:21 AM
I like how Caroline took the time to draft an epic diatribe on how she thinks IP addresses work but never took the time to do a simple Google search for any of the countless rudimentary guides on how the internet and IP addresses actually work.

Napergatians are like Scientologists, there's no way to beat them, you just have to join them. Because of this, I concede to the Napergate Man as my new overlord... and welcome my new battle cry- "FOR NAPERGATE!"

___________________________________________________________________

Hey Web Guy,
Much of my information came from you. You claimed you knew what you were talking about so I used much of what you taught us to try to explain the data provided. Others posted that some providers will only provide one user number to the recipient to see for all users.

Obviously, this is a very complex field and different providers have different policies. I think you even mentioned that. Nothing appears standard in the web world. An IP address is obviously very different than a phone number is something I am learning.

The selective data Mr. Magee dug up was a double edged sword.

It did not indicate that I changed my handle. It indicated that despite keeping my same handle my IP number changed 4 times. So the handle was not being changed as alleged but the IP number was being changed by the provider without my knowledge. It proves your point that these IP numbers are now cycling and changing. Do you want to argue with yourself for the sake of arguing?

If you disagree with my analysis, Professor Web, of which much was obtained from your previous posts, you should have pointed out my errors. Instead you go off on an epic diatribe against the Napergate Man and the Napergatians who were not even involved in this debate on the Governor. I was involved as an individual as this matter does not apparently concern the Napergatians as it is a State Issue and not a local issue concerning government waste and higher taxes which has always been their focus and agenda. You guys like to bring them into every debate and accuse them of bringing themselves in the debate. Looking at this thread the Establishment Bloggers took it over and attacked the Napergatians who were not even present or debating...lol!!! Truly amazing and then they whine to Mr. Magee about hijackings....ridiculous.

It is just amazing how often you and your clan attack the Napergate Man and the Napergatians anytime you can't debate a single member like myself just because I admitted I was a Napergatian on previous threads.

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PS. Weren't you that math wizard that used funny and fuzzy math to state that an ATT repairman makes $700,000 per year. And you want us to believe you have a brain. You couldn't even tell your office mates were laughing at you instead of with you, Web Wizard.

No more off topic posts on this thread. I asked you to redirect them. I won't approve any more here.

Back on topic!!! THE PROBLEM: Political parties do not serve the electorate. This is especially true in this state and you, your neighbor, our employers, me and everyone else is paying a price we can no longer afford to pay if we want to play. We can perhaps liken the errosion of the political climate in this state to the mafia. If you think about it, in some ways politics in Illinois is quite like the mafia. You have politically powerful families in Illinois who have over the years carved up little niches of government that they control. Just like mafia families control various criminal endeavors in various areas, mutually respect each others control and enterprises. These political mafia families do the same thing. The difference is the violence level is reduced but make no mistake about it, there has been politically motivated violence in this state's history over power and control of government. The Stroeger family and their minions control Cook County government and all of its various political subdivisions. Many people loyal to them are rewarded in kind, much as mafia Dons reward their soldiers with money and positions within the County government. The Daley family controls the Chicago government and that history speaks for itself. Bill Daley of course is the conduit consigliere between the Chicago Daley family and the national (DNC) family. The Jackson family operates on the fringes with Triple J as a US Congressman and of course his wife is a Chicago Alderman. Double J is the Don of that particular family and he too with ties to the national family. He also speaks for and controls the Black vote albiet he has NEVER been elected to any office. The Mell's have Dick and daughter Debbie who I understand wants to expand her racket into the Emanuel family seat. This could be a problem because other political families have eyes on that Congressional seat. Daughter Patty Mell Blago thinks she has been bestowed political power because her husband is Governor, for now. She is going to tell the Tribune and the loser Cubs what they can and will do. The Madigan family has their niche in Springfield and heaven help the Emil Jones and Danny Davis family should they encroach on that territory. I could go on but I belive the point has been made. It would not surprise me one bit if the FED doesn't have the family trees of these various politicans on easels somewhere with photos and titles just like they did with the Big Tuna family and Mo Mo etc. (OFF TOPIC: Who remembers who Mo Mo was? Hint: He was shot to death in his Oak Park house while making sausage and peppers in the basement kitchen) These people take care of themselves and the stewardship of the state or local government is really not even in consideration. You want access to government, you deal with these people and their gang. It is my opinion these people like Blago for example, when they are caught red handed, there is no due process of law. They are physically removed from office and they have to prove to US their innocense. They are dispicable and the lowest from of life. So Blago can appoint Roland Burris (remember him on tape about ten years ago caught talking about whitey?) and be real cute, gridlocker and blocker of the representation of the people and the business of the people. We go in and drag his narrow behind out of office. THE REAL SOLUTION: The politicians are not going to limit their power. They will not pass for example term limit legislation or pass laws that take political appointments away from themselves. So it is up to each of us to stamp out organized political crime in this state and always vote against any and all incumbents. This regardless of what kind of job they do. Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. So one term only and we will take their ability to build these corrupt dynasties that plague us and prevent government from serving us instead of itself. As they say in Hammond, its a good idea ain't it?

gkock22, huh? a stretch,ain't it?. I suggest you move to another state or country.

TO T.B.

Two responses.

1. I was proposing the Roland Burris introduce that law when he was seated in the Senate.

2. Don't overreach my comments. Scooter Libby was indicted on revealing the identity of a CIA agent (one, by the way, opposed the positions of the CIA and was married to a New York Times writer--very coincidental). Scooter WAS NOT convicted of this crime. Instead, he was convicted under ONE COUNT of lying to a Federal officer. My point, if they cannot convict on the original indictment, they should not be able to convict on ONE COMMENT a person "misstates" during an "inquisition."

And if you go through many of the Peter Fitzgerald convictions, a meaningful number (and I have not totally studied this, this is what an astute journalist should do) are not based on the original indictment, but this loophole. It is used more than you think.

And if Blago were SO GUILTY, why can't Fitzgerald produce an indictment right now? The reason is that he is sensationalizing the case FOR HIS BENEFIT TO WIN rather than simply sticking to the process. If there was so much information that would sink him, then indict him now and revise the indictments later.

As a person who went under the microscope (and was not "indicted"), this entire process is very intimidating and costly. I have known good people get convicted in tactics that are beyond belief. While I do not support these people, how much money did George Ryan get for his crimes? $40,000 of spending money for ten to 15 years? Was it worth prosecuting him on this charge? Why don't we know?

Same for Mayor Betty from Cicero. Where are the millions of dollars? One golf course in upper Wisconsin? She has a house in Las Vegas for $300,000. Who were the real criminals?

Other than helping Obama buy his house, where is the rest of Rezko's racquetering profits? His next case is that he was bankrupt and swindled the lenders.

Yes T.B., I would like the "facts". If you have any in the above, please point us to them. Instead, I think that Federal prosecutors should have some accountability. And the President (Bush or Obama) should be able to do that.

The Herd will be Fooled,

I agree with most of what you said.

You really don't need to pass any new laws though.

You just need to never talk to a Federal Agent, IRS Agent or FBI Agent whether you are innocent or guilty. They will do as you stated if they can't get you on the original charge and feel you are guilty. It is atrocious that they can nail you on a slip of the tongue or a misstatement. They can not be trusted.

Always exercise your 5th Amendment and you will be safe. Even muzzle you attorney if you have one. Challenge them to indict. In most cases they will not indict if you seal your lips tight even if you are guilty.

Loose lips sink ships.....that is a great saying.

Moderator Chris, I could not agree more with your initial post.
Blagojevich has no business appointing someone to the Senate position, especially after he (through his attorney) stated that he would not do so and that it was not the right political climate for such an action. I guess it just goes to show as yet another example why this man's word means nothing and that his attempts to deflect and damage know no boundaries. His credibility is shot and everyone is attempting to distance themselves from him. Why in the world Burris would work with Blagojevich is obvious... it's a chance to advance himself. In my opinion, aligning with Blagojevich in any way may be suicide for his career.

There is a lot wrong with the politics in our state. We seem to be carving out a place for ourselves in history. Unfortunately. It will be interesting to see how this whole ordeal plays out.

And I'd also like to thank Chris for finally... finally... stating what a lot of us already suspected about someone posting under multiple aliases for the sake of arguing and hyjacking threads.
I think the fact that this person (Barack, Caroline, et al) would jump on someone else for stating a differing opinion speaks volumes. His attack on Chris for stating his opinion on this topic, along with all of his other attacks on posters for their opinions is totally uncalled for. We, the 'other' readers of this blog (those that aren't Barack/Caroline/et al), have to wade through lenghthy and rambling diatribe to ferret out the opinions of other regular citizens who want to partake in civilized, adult dialog. This person constantly jumps on others and name calls. I don't know if this is a kid or an adult with serious social issues, but this isn't something a 'normal' person does. Whoever you are, why can't you realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion and berating others for having one that differs from yours isn't going to change their minds? In fact, at the very least it just makes you appear to be a little off-center. Add to it the frequency with which you post here and the bevy of names you don to prop yourself (yes, it is blatantly obvious) it makes one wonder what your motivation is here. Is there more to it than a God Complex and an anger issue?
If you want to be taken seriously, why don't you stick with one name, stay on-topic, and stop attacking those who have an opinion that differs from yours?

Liz,
I agree with you Liz. This creepy Caroline lady had very low self esteem.

First she did not seem too happy with her gender. She wishes she was born a male. She was probably born a Christian and wishes she was Agnositic or Muslim.

She first wanted to be a local hero and pretended to be the Napergate Man. After that she wanted to be a state hero and pretended she was the Governor of Illinois. Finally that was not enough and she needed to be Presdient of the United States by playing Barack Hussein Obama. She seemed to really enjoy that role and I believe she would have stuck with it except the Host told her NO MORE. I suspect her next move was to be Pope or the United Nations Chief.

She was smart though. She read the news and pretended she was part of it. She got everyone cussing on the Napergatians and they were not even blogging with us. The whole thing was just too creepy. But she did drive us all nuts and had us all cussing on each other. So she may have accomplished her goals.

Anonymous,
If the goal was to monopolize the blogs, then it was accomplished. If the goal was to annoy others with childishness, then it was accomplished. But if the goal was to change the minds of others with thought-provoking ideas and unarguable facts, then I highly doubt it was accomplished. It's hard to take someone seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously.

Anonymous on January 2, 2009 2:24 PM
But she did drive us all nuts and had us all cussing on each other. So she may have accomplished her goals.

__________________________

Ok, is this the 55th or 56th different posting by this wacko? The grammer ("cussing"?), and again with the criticism of the host ("No More") is a dead give away.

Give it up Caroline, Barak, or whatever you go by now.

As for the topic: Looks like Jesse White is not going to certify the decision by Blago - Burris will be in Washington with no place to go. Monday looks interesting.

Whoever says we need a "Black" replacement Senator is a racist.

Whoever appoints a person for the job, where their color is a qualification, is a racist.

Whoever there is that is clearly unqualified, but expects to be seated because of their color, is a racist.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If Illinois Republicans only had a brain, they would insist on thorough hearings and a full legislative trail for Blago where they have the power to call witnesses, question them and expand the corruption investigation.

If they don't have the power to call witnesses they should cry cover-up, which is precisely what is about to take place.

If the impeachment is to be narrow and hasty, the Republicans should boycott the process.

To The Herd Will Be Fooled –

Your first response makes more sense to me now, but I doubt Burris will be able to get the time of day if he ever gets seated in the Senate, much less get to introduce legislature to eliminate a law most don’t see as a problem. I think even Obama has made that clear.

Nobody is indicted for a simple misstatement to the feds. Scooter Libby is a poor example for your point of view. He didn’t simply make a misstatement, but repeated lies in which he was contradicted by more than one person (Tim Russert being one of them and having more credibility than Scooter).

I find it odd that you think this is used more often than I believe, but also admit that you haven’t totally studied this issue. You could very well be right, though I fail to see why I would believe you based on your admittedly uninformed position. I’ve been told by a respected (personal) source that this charge isn’t very common, but I’d be interested if you actually had data to back up your claim.

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstance with the feds, but them saying or implying you could get indicted for lying to them and having the US Attorney’s Office follow through are two different things.

Calling this a loophole degrades that fact that lying to federal investigators is obstructing a criminal investigation funded by taxpayers. Why would anyone encourage this type of behavior? At best, follow Anon’s advice and just not say anything at all. Of course, if you’re just a witness your testimony can be compelled but that’s another story.

Based on what I’ve heard from most commentators on TV and also the Tribune, I don’t doubt that the US Attorney could get an indictment right now against the Gov but I think he’s trying to put together a bigger case so he doesn’t have to supersede with more charges later. The Trib has written that news of the wire taps have brought out a host of new witnesses for the feds to interview. I have no doubt that many people have now come forward for fear that they were caught on tape saying something they would prefer the public not know about.

It’s been a nice discussion, but I guess we should get back to the Gov and Burris. Not as much fun, but in keeping with Chris’ thinking.

T.B.

IF we ignore all of the Caroline comments, there were some good posts.

Bubo hit my thoughts exactly. The Republicans should totally boycott this impeachment process. The governor has not been indicted, it will take at least three months to indict him, and even then, will they be able to convict him on any of the "main" charges? (My other point before)

Also, both you and T.B. are on track with my thoughts about the fed process. But if you do not cooperate, you can be indicted for obstruction of justice. If people do not talk to the Feds about Blago, they would be outed. Plus, everyone thinks these guys are on the up and up.

I also do not know the exact conviction issues. But look at Rezko, he was found guilty only on a handful of issues. And that with two convicted people testifying to lower their sentence.

Lastly, Pat Quinn, who is the most flaming liberal anywhere, will most assuredly increase taxes massively to play to the unions. That is how the $2 billion hole will be filled. A tripling of the income tax coupled with a major exemption so people making less than $40,000 (guaranteed Democratic voters) pay no income taxes. Mark my word.

Now it has been published that Harry Reid, the (D) Senator for Nevada called Blago after the election advising him not to select Emil Jones, Danny Davis or Triple J to fill the Senate seat of "His Majesty". This should outrage every citizen in Illinois. Some two bit, and I mean a TWO BIT CHEEZY politican from Nevada is telling OUR crooked governor who he can and cannot select. There should be NO time ever that a politican is allowed to select another politican to fill an elected office. We did not learn when Nixon chose Ford and we will not learn when some crooked politican takes the right of citizens to select what should be their elected leaders. This really stinks and above all, it is patently un-democratic.

Now Burris is fully intending to go even tho he has been told that he won't be acknowledged since he was appointed by a tainted politician while under investigation. That isn't stopping him, he seems to have a 'Hell no, I won't go!' attidude. NOT a good way to start in a new position.

Illinois politicians are a disgrace to it's citizens.

I think Senator Burris is a classy and humble guy.

Our system sucks.

It gives the Governor the right to appoint a Senator but the Secretary of State the right to veto the selection.

Thus the S of S is the one who really chooses the Senator based on recommendation from the Governor.

Basically, the S of S has the final "say so" based on how this played out this morning. Hard to believe the S of S has more power than the Governor.

Only in Illinois!

Well, it's hard to believe after everyone and their mother insisted Burris had no chance of being seated, but it looks more and more likely now that he will get in. Anonymous sources close to the situation think he will eventually be seated. Looks like a victory for Blagojevich.

Looks like he will be seated indeed. If this went on much longer, like into April perhaps a special election might be held and the people would make the decision. And the parties could not allow citizens to decide who the Senator should be rather than preserving their right to bid the seat out. Meanwhile more good economic news to go with the rest; Illinois lost 34,000 jobs in the Chicago five county Metro area according to Crains from 11/1/08 to 1/1/09. And what has our state government collectively done? Absolutely nothing. Well not exactly nothing. They have plunged farther into debt, spent more borrowing money, continued to pay fewer bills and the state bond rating is headed towards junk plus plus ratings. In the grand scheme of things, maybe we would be better off just going with one Senator.

Glad this thread got back on topic. The endless drone over IP addresses almost sent me screaming into the night.

Gotta say I agree with your initial assessment, Chris. Whatever planet Blago's on, he's already sharing it with George Ryan. What's one more if he can get Burris on board? Correct me if I've heard wrong, but hasn't Burris run for both IL gov. and senator several times in his career but never won? And didn't Blago offer the senate seat to two others before Burris, and these two turned it down because of the controversy surrounding it? If this is indeed the case, it seems Blago made a list and just went down it until he got someone who wanted the position badly enough to take it under any circumstances. This makes Burris look like a desperate and sad figure in addition to a political pawn.

Burris seems like a decent guy, but he knew he was facing the possibility of not being seated when he accepted the appointment. He put himself in the game, so hopefully he will just play it out with as much dignity and as little grandstanding as possible. I would not vote to re-elect anyone who would turn this into a media circus, or any more of a circus than it already is, in order to force his way into the senate. I turned off Fox News earlier because I could not stand to listen to their repetitive airings of Congressman Bobby Rush saying Burris wasn't being seated because of racism; how all the white senators refusing to seat Burris was reminiscent of angry whites trying to keep black children from entering white schools back in the day. I would have loved it if someone had asked him if Jesse White's refusal to endorse Burris also meant that Jesse was a racist!

Anyone with half a working brain knows this isn't a race issue, and it's disturbing and disappointing to see a congressman move so quickly to cry racism yet again. News flash for you, Bob--the race card took a major hit in November, in case you weren't paying attention. Crying racism whenever you don't get your way is old and tired and nobody buys it anymore. Get a new excuse. And kudos to the senate for not letting this intimidate them. Burris cannot be seated until Jesse White signs off on his appointment. Burris knew this but still went to Washington anyway. I didn't see Al Franken there with his lawyers expecting to be sworn in and then holding a news conference in the rain when he was turned away. Burris had best keep the political grandstanding in check, or his long-awaited appointment to the senate may be a brief one.

A general question on the issue of what will it take to be an acceptable replacement senator:

I have heard it said several times in the media that the person replacing Barack Obama in the senate must be black - because to put anyone of another race in that seat would be to deny the black community their voice. After all, Barack Obama was the only black senator. Is this an acceptable criteria for selecting a replacement? And, do we then extend the thought process further 4 years from now if the "voices" say the next president must be black as the only black president we have is now going to be replaced. This is ludicrous. I realize I am being somewhat naive but aren't we supposed to be represented by the best possible candidate, regardless of race or religion? Isn't that why Mr. Obama got elected, first to the senate and then to the presidency? Because enough people thought he was the best person to represent them? Are we beyond all hope that the special interest groups do not have a total strangle hold on the government process?

There are 99 other senators and any of them could have been a black man if the parties had nominated one. As far as I know it isn't Illinois' constitutional responsibility to send the only one. We've had two in the last 20 years. Maybe some of these other so-called "progressive" states should get on board too.

To Anoni-mouse: I've heard the same thing from different media sources also. It is ludicrous, I wouldn't worry about it taking hold. To say that because a senate seat was previously held by a minority, whether it be an African-American, Latino or a woman, so it therefore "belongs" to that group forever, is undemocratic. This is not how our system of government works. I'm sure the special interest groups claiming this care more about their own agendas than they do the democratic process, but that's why we have a system of checks and balances--to keep the extremists from running the show.

M.L. King's dream--that people be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their characters--has come to fruition in the highest office attainable in this country. Naturally, those without much character will miss playing the race card to advance themselves, but they'll have to adjust. Such is the price of progress.

On the news tonight, the head of the NAACP was interviewed. He stated he has asked that the governor of Ny nominate a Latino American or African American to replace Hillary Clinton so as to add diversity to the senate.

Anoni-mouse: Sounds about right coming from the head of the NAACP. Like I said, many of these folks are more interested in furthering their own political or ethnic agendas than in maintaining the democratic system. So of course they'll ask (or demand), and there may be some isolated cases where this works, but I'm not worried about it taking hold on any significant scale. I really don't care what ethnicity these appointees are, as long as they are the best candidates and represent all the people of their state. The NAACP will always make race an issue, it's what their organization stands for--National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. And isn't referring to African-Americans as "colored" an antiquated term in itself? I think these folks should spend less time focusing on race and more time looking to their new president-elect as a role model on how to be successful without using race as a prop. But old habits die slowly. I read in an article that Congressman Rush is a ex-Black Panther. Well, THAT explains alot. No wonder he immediately cried racism on the Burris appointment; he still has a 1960's mentality. If this had really been a race issue, you know that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been holding press conferences on Capitol Hill. Politicians like Rush are dinosaurs.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if someone introduced legislation demanding racial quotas for Congress? i.e. if 12% of the population is African American then congress should reflect it. Wouldn't get very far, but it would make for interesting theater.

I would hope to give the voters from Illinois a little more credit. Are they really saying the only reason someone voted for Obama was because he was black? Or did they vote for who they considered to be the best candidate?

As an aside, I heard that Burris is quite the egomaniac. His kids are named Roland and Rolando!!