On Wednesday a morning commuter train to Chicago was stopped and searched, with the passengers removed from some of the cars, because a man got on in Naperville with a gun.
The man was located and identified as a Secret Service agent. The ticket agent said the man asked questions about security, said he had a gun, but never identified himself or gave any reason for his questions. The Secret Service agent gives a very different account, claiming he identified himself as an officer and never asked about security.
In the end, no one was hurt, but many people were frightened and hours late to their destinations. What do you think about the situation?
T.B.,
On the other hand maybe all of these cries for investigations and accountability will have the affect of more adults actually acting responsibly.... gee... imagine that...
If there was nothing done with any ill intent and this was a tragic mistake or miscommunication, won’t all these cries for investigations and punishment have the affect of deterring someone from reporting something they find suspicious in the future?
T.B.
Easy there Kenny.....dont get your undies in a bunch. This isnt like the Kennedy assination or the Whitewater scandal. Take a deep breath big boy...it will be OK
Yes, Anonymous (on 01/16 @ 10:29 pm), a misunderstanding. And, no, I don’t assume it was the ticket agent’s fault. It takes two to communicate and I stated that it was possible either one of them screwed up.
But I don’t think any law enforcement officer, federal or otherwise, is going to tell a ticket agent he’s armed without stating that he is, in fact, a law enforcement officer. Finding the Metra cop may be a fine idea, if you can find one. I’m not an everyday train rider but I mostly see them at night, not in the morning.
Look, sometimes stuff happens. Many people were inconvenienced. It sucks. Tough. If the intent was not malicious, where’s the crime?
Is the idiot who burns popcorn in the office microwave and sets off the smoke alarms forcing the evacuation of an entire building guilty of some crime requiring an independent investigation? Or is it just a stupid mistake on someone’s part which affected allot of people?
Justice can be served without retribution.
T.B.
Ken,
You stated "the secret service agent did his job, according to set protocols." Well, that may be your opinion. From what I have seen reported so far I haven't read any factual basis to support an allegation that the Secret Service agent did follow set protocols. May be he did and may be he didn't.
Now let's take a look at the ticket agent... did he follow Metra set protocols?
Ok, let's give both of them the benefit of doubt that they both followed the set protocol of their employers... yet this incident still happened.
Reality is that neither you nor I nor anyone else is privy to these protocols or how they are set. I do know that all organizations set protocols in a rather self-serving manner putting their views, interests, and perception of organizations needs above all others. Without any checks or balances on these internal policies there is little wonder that conflicts like this will eventually come to a head and when they do thousands of individuals pay the price for organizational shortcomings. How much of this should the commuting public be expected to tolerate?
Here we have the Secret Service, Metra security, and the Naperville Police Department. All of this mess was caused because they all think they have rights, obligations, and jurisdiction to do whatever they darn well please in the name of "public safety" and "security". And because there is apparently not organizational cooperation or communication this so-called "misunderstanding" came about.
Horse hockey... I don't but this self-serving story for one minute. If a person who had a conceal carry gun permit did the exact same thing I remain firmly convinced that at the very least such a person would have at least been charged with disturbing the peace. Because of "blue silence" the Naperville Police Department obviously choose to give another LEO a break at the expense of the inconvenience of thousands of commuters.
This stinks to high heaven and is as tainted as any of the other political corruption in this state. An independent investigation is fully warranted. If no one did anything wrong then none of them has anything to worry about what facts and truth are determined.
Ken: the statement I was trying to make was a local cop CAN apprehend a Secret Service agent under some circumstances. Trust me, if Special Agent John Doe drives drunk in downtown Naperville and gets caught, he IS going to jail!!! I was just trying to correct Fred's statement that a local cop cant arrest a Secret Service agent. Hopefully though, it will never come to that......
Anonymouse 1/16/09 10:29PM, the secret service agent did his job, according to set protocols. All the ticket agent heard was 'gun', and he freaked out. Frankly, so did the police. If the gun toting person really was intent on harm, what would provoke that more than seeing M16 carrying police officers at an unscheduled stop? They had a good description of the man, and should have been waiting to question him at Union Station. If he really meant to cause any harm, he probably wouldn't have announced to the ticket agent that he had a gun.
Barny, your what ifs are conjecture, not what really happened, and therefore do not apply. By the way, do you really believe the cops arrest a fellow officer for domestic battery? As for who is on the bottom of the food chain, all you have to do is look at the placement of the Chicago cops when Obama was in town. They answered to the secret service, not the other way aroung.
BY FRED on January 14, 2009: Obviously Ben, you don't how law enforcement works. A local cop can't apprehend a secret service agent, local cops are at the bottom of the food chain, that would be like a security guard trying to arrest a State Trooper.
Fred, obviously, you don't know what you are talking about. Lets say the secret service agent decides to slap his wife around and she calls 911. Guess who goes to jail.....the SECRET SERVICE AGENT!!
Take it a step further....lets say the secret service agent gets drunk on the train and flashes his gun, scares the heck out of everyone....guess who goes to jail...THE SECRET SERVICE agent!!!
The local cops ARE NOT on the bottom of the food chain, as you suggest. As the old saying goes, when in rome, do as the Romans do. Any federal agent who breaks a law inside a municipality can and WILL go to jail.
T.B.,
A misunderstanding? Are you kidding me? And you assume it is the ticket agent who didn't hear something correctly?
Let's back up here a second. When it comes to the gun totin' part of the equation it is the Secret Service agent who is the "professional" here, not the ticket agent.
Was this the first Metra trip for this Secret Service agent or had he ridden the train before? If you are a Secret Service agent do you go to a lowly ticket agent and inquire about security or do you contact the Metra police and formally introduce yourself and get the facts one LEO to another LEO... this used to be called professional courtesy? Does a Secret Service agent slide his creds under the window and properly identify himself or just walk up and declare he is carrying a gun?
Something doesn't add up and I'm not buying for one minute that this is as simple as a misunderstanding. All things considered, and until someone coughs up some facts to the contrary, it would see the burden for causing this incident, based upon what we do know at this point, falls squarely on the Secret Service agent.
Maybe as you say the Secret Service agent was a rookie, an idiot, or possibly even both. The bottom line is that we have a ticket agent, we have a Secret Service agent who came together because the Secret Service agent made a decision to make contact with the ticket agent... the end result was a situation that caused enormous delays and losses to many thousands of people and an untold number of employers. I'd hate to add up the total cost of this fiasco and that is why we should all call for and demand an impartial investigation of what really happened.
This if far too serious and impacted far too many people for the two parties involved to simply retreat into the background and say sorry this was all a misunderstanding.
Anon –
“Somebody isn't telling the truth in this story. Either the ticket agent or the Secret Service agent is lying based upon what has been reported from what each told the police.”
This also could be a misunderstanding. I think it’s entirely possible the ticket agent heard “gun” and nothing else the Secret Service agent was saying. I find it hard to believe any plain clothes law enforcement officer would state he was carrying a gun and not state that he was in law enforcement.
But admittedly, the Secret Service agent could have been some rookie or idiot (or both). I doubt we’ll ever know for sure.
T.B.
One Who Values You,
Yes, they could do that. But they would have to bring weapons, explosives, etc. with them to do much harm. And if the plan is to do maximum damage in a public place, why even take over the train in the first place? Why not just show up at the train station with weapson in hand? The difference between the train and the plane is that an airliner fully-loaded with fuel is a highly-explosive guided missile when it falls into the wrong hands.
-JQP
John Q Public...
So they can't take over train & do something when it goes into Union Station? HOw many people are in there during rush hour times?
Somebody isn't telling the truth in this story. Either the ticket agent or the Secret Service agent is lying based upon what has been reported from what each told the police.
That is exactly why this needs to be impartially investigated.
What Fred wrote above in the 6th post is nothing more than a pile of horse hockey. A local cop can arrest anyone who is violating the laws of this state. It doesn't matter if it is you or me or another local cop, county mounty, state police, or a federal agent. No one automatically gets any kind of immunity from obeying the law just because they are employed as a federal agent.
I'm not sure about others, but I would actually expect someone in law enforcement work to be held to a higher level than the average person due to their expert knowledge, training, etc.
I want to clarify a few facts. No one claimed to have seen the gun. The Secret Service agent reportedly told the ticket agent he was carrying a gun. According to the ticket agent, he said he had a gun and asked about security but never identified himself. And yes, once they found the man they stopped the search. I get the impression a lot of people commenting on this haven't read the final version of the story. If you read it before 5 p.m. Wednesday I urge you to go back and read the full version now.
Right on Dano!
"There should be a law that when somebody inconviences SO MANY PEOPLE, the person who caused the action goes to jail. Also, these people (and their employers) could be sued."
Disipline is Long overdue for these type of folks. Who hires these irresponsible people?
T.B. on January 15, 2009 8:34 AM
TB, as usual I agree with you. I will say, however, the person calling in the "crime" was the ticket booth operator? If so, this person would be shielded by the glass transaction window and would not have been able to see anything below the chest or belly button of the offender.
Not sure if I heard if the gun was in a shoulder holster? or on the guys hip? I also haven't seen the secret service guys name, or purpose for being on that train, or where he was going? (I know, I know he was going downtown, but was it to just go to work or official business?) I also haven't seen anything indicating that once the train was stopped the guy was questioned, and presumably let back on the train once his I.D. checked out?
Also.... once the secret service officer was identified did they stop checking everyone else or did they check everyone? A previous potluck topic was regarding the lockdown at Waubonsie where many talked about illegal, unnecessary searches of the kids - will this result in the same people crying "foul" over this one as well?
One Who Values You wrote:
"Now it does bring up a VERY interesting point. We have all this searching/security on planes. We don't on trains. Talk about a major loop hole for someone to take advantage of."
I think the difference, as we learned on 9/11, is that people who take over planes are a potential danger not just to the other people on the plane, but to many thousands more on the ground.
From a practical perspective there are far more guns on the train everyday than most people realize. A larger percent of women than most people think carry a gun in their purse and there are plenty of men with a gun in their briefcase as well. Not trying to hype or scare anyone just pointing out that this is a fact.
In general, I agree with the opening comment by dano. This whole incident needs to be independently investigated by either the FBI or the Illinois State Police. Or maybe the Attorney General's office... if they are good enough investigators to take down the Gov then looking into this and making a factual determination should be a walk in the park. Personally I am sick and tired of reading where the agency involved in some kind of situation conducted their own internal investigation and found no wrongdoing. Like that is ever going to happen with fellow employees sticking up and protecting each other. The public needs to be able to trust our government and that should happen through objective, impartial investigations conducted by people not beholden or influenced by those personally involved. With the current level of corruption that exists in goverment throughout all of Illinois we need more transparency that will prove and convince citizens that decisions like this are being made honestly and truthfully.
Someone did something very wrong for such an incident to play out and it inconvenienced thousands of commuters. The facts needs to be understood. Whoever did something wrong needs to be held accountable so that lessons might be learned on how to avoid any more incidents like this in the future.
I have many friends in law enforcement, mostly in federal agencies. Each one of them has a “belt badge” which is a smaller version of their normal badge and is worn directly next to their holster specifically to identify themselves as law enforcement should anyone happen to spot their weapon. They wear the belt badges religiously so that some trigger-happy local cop doesn’t spot their gun and open fire.
I would think that someone who spotted a holstered gun on the train would also have seen the Secrete Service agent’s belt badge. Either this was a rare occurrence or the person who reported the gun ignored the badge for some reason.
Also, I believe the Sun reported that the Secrete Service agent had never taken the train before. If so, I would assume he was new to Naperville and probably was a recent transfer to the Chicago area from elsewhere in the US.
T.B.
The face is that the secret service agent is the cause of the problem. He should have known ahead of time what the rules were to the metra line.
He followed the rules. Someone saw his gun and assumed he must be a criminal, and started a panic. There is nothing he can do about that, especially if he was not given an opportunity to show his credentials before the call was made.
As for the comments on security on a train, wouldn't seem a waste of time as anyone who wanted to harm a train could do it between the stations? It's much harder to take a plane out between airports, so the security is a little easier.
By Ben on January 14, 2009 9:25 PM
"What I do not understand is when the train was searched why was the secret service agent not apprehended?"
That's a good one. Apprehended him for what?
Obviously Ben, you don't how law enforcement works. A local cop can't apprehend a secret service agent, local cops are at the bottom of the food chain, that would be like a security guard trying to arrest a State Trooper.
Nice comments. This isnt the wild west where you go around shooting people. The face is that the secret service agent is the cause of the problem. He should have known ahead of time what the rules were to the metra line. He should not have caused a stir. I am sure he did not give a crap that he caused panic among the people. What I do not understand is when the train was searched why was the secret service agent not apprehended?
Oh boy then lets see how many would be suing for delays on planes to make sure.
Now it does bring up a VERY interesting point. We have all this searching/security on planes. We don't on trains. Talk about a major loop hole for someone to take advantage of. I go on the metra & nothing! Why is that? Would I be happy with the long wait for like planes? Heck no...but then again if it meant I would be more secure? Of course then again the guys coming home from work on the train drinking the oversized cans of beer & then getting in their cars & driving do not make me too happy to be on the road next to them either.
And who is to say just because the gun is in a holster it is just someone who "should" have one? No other person but police, secret service etc get holsters? Hmmm how come I never knew that? And gee what was all that stuff about preventative, proactive measures? Must not make a difference huh...just wait for him to shot me or my child etc. Ah someone is casing the school with a guy tell the kids don't worry he is not pointing it at you yet. OMG! Sure everyone will be saying why didn't you call earlier when it is too late!
Adding this to the great list of "Only in Naperville" quotes.
Frankly, I find it very amusing. Of course if I were stuck on the train, not so funny. But imagine, someone sees someone carrying a holstered weapon and all hell breaks loose. Beautiful! You people who are totally frightened at the site of a holstered firearm make me LOL!! Only become frightened when it comes out of the holster and you are looking smack dab down the big black PIPE! Or when you see your shadow. Otherwise, get a clue. A lot of plainclothes LEO's carry guns. And hopefully, we will have concealed carry in this state and not be the last state to pass it. By the way, did dig the picture of Lisle officer Jason Louis standing on the platform with his M-16. Its nice to see real cops with real guns. That picture made Glock 22 warm and fuzzy on a very cold winters day.
There should be a law that when somebody inconviences SO MANY PEOPLE, the person who caused the action goes to jail. Also, these people (and their employers) could be sued.
I hope the police question the person who reported the problem and the Secret Service agent. Somebody either filed a false police report (the Naperville station ticket agent if the press reports are correct that he/she phoned in the incident) and/or the Secret Service Agent was not following protocal in taking the train. They should be arrested accordingly. Their companies (the BNSR and the Federal government) can fire them as well.
What a joke!