See website reformillinoisnow.org to submit your comments,testimony or depositions. Look at the subjects ex-sen keating ten points of reform. no.10-pension featherbedding during last few years of employment. A combine tool that allows the unspeakable. Many items such as mandatory conformity to FOI request,transparency,ballot access,etc,etc. REFORMILLINOISNOW.org like the FRAM man says-pay me now or pay later. Will you help reformillinoisnow.org or will you stick your neck in the sand? just ask'in

Dan,

I can always depend on watching you rhetorically twist yourself into a pretzel trying to criticize 203 to bring a smile to my face. Many thanks for the laughs.

You know...

It would have been nice to have some football with all the commercials yesterday!

So what did you think of the commercials?

But Bruce sure proved why he is THE BOSS! He sure makes 59 yr old men look good! ;-)

The Central program is for the Academy, reflecting once again the spending of money on the top and bottom, but as many parents told me during the election, ignoring the regular student.

Further, it would make sense to let students work out before school without foolish PE classes. All students would benefit and we could fire the PE teachers. There only other alternative to a $80,000 teaching job is $25,000 at a health club. OVERPAYMENT!!!

15K to take Blago's name off the tollways! OMG! There goes some money that could go to education, roads etc. They should charge it to him! My mom just said they should just have just put a big black X over it. Could make a statement. Let him ride the roads with that on there!

Someone above posted a comment about a Naperville Central PE program on the Early Show this week

Here's the link to view it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4764808n

I assumed this was about Central's nationally recognized Adaptive PE program but it's not. This program is using physical activity to energize students for academic classes. Very cool.

A couple of thoughts.

1. If the public schools system was so great, why do the Obama's send their children to private schools. They did not even visit a public school. Is it, Do as I say, rather than as I do? Hey, Barry O, I agree with you, and I did evaluate the public school alternatives.

2. Higgins, Lisle would NEVER merge with 203. They pay 30% less in taxes, they spend more because of a higher and more diverse tax base.

3. My taxes have been cut, so now my overpayment is $250 or so. Thansk Thom for paying the difference!!!!

With quinn, there will be a shift to 100% state funding with no ability to increase local taxes, I think taxpayers lose under this sceanario if their income is over $500,000.

Well...barring some individual officer, who is HUMAN remember, where it could be possible it may have been unwarranted, chances are the student did not back away after numerous requests. Then most likely they tried to arrest him for obstruction and he resisted & they then tasered him. I find it hard to believe the officer is Darth Vader just eager to lazer some young Luke!

I find the article pathetic. "I'm a good student" "He is a good person/student" Like no good people overall do inappropriate behaviors! Give me a break! Everyone makes poor choices & many times under stressful times. That is as bad as the principal who was a good person who we should not fire him for plagiarism! The article did not have very much from the NPD, so it is not very objective. Definitely favored one side. Now that may be ok for the time being because they maybe not be able to get NPD to provide more details right now, but I'm fairly confident NPD will later provide a bit more & I would be quite surprised if it was not warranted. Could it happen it was wrong, sure, but if I had to make a bet between the officers and a college football player out in a party scene (no I didn't say he was drinking but still), I'd still bet with the officers. God, I know how we were in college with our attitudes toward officers and it is worse now. And if one really believes there is some misjustice happening they tend to get a bit passionate, that still may not be aggressive but when an officer say back away...you do it! I guess this would be the time to appologize to all the officers from when I was younger! HA!

Also remember just because one sues & there is a settlement does not always mean there is wrong doing. Just like Malpractice, cheaper to settle than to fight even if you did nothing wrong.

Perhaps one should think about cameras outside & maybe even inside the bars in Naperville besides the stop light cameras. Now all the big brother people are going to scream but perhaps they go on after a certain time in the evening? Will it catch everything? Probably not, but hey we have cameras now in our school & will soon in our parking lots. It is amazing how much it helps. "I didn't do it!"..."Hmmm, is that the shirt you have on now?"

Re: tazering of student downtown- what say you blogers. Should city pay-out early or hire outside council to defend NPD's honor?? Seems like many speak out to defend the student. Will FOIA be needed to discover off. names? Elgin paid out 250k on a 5 million damage claim in the Darr beating. LEO stops city squad and severly whoops handcuffed suspect for beating leo's father @holliday inn on new years eve. settled in a year and EVERYONE is happy. Should this model be examined,i.e. NPD beating by Councilman.

Anonymous...

Oh Good God...they are two separate sentences! I do not have a dash or common! You can't comprehend that?

One Who Values You on January 31, 2009 11:17 PM
Remember also every child is different even at the same age. I know a 9 yr old that is reading at 8th grade level. She understands more about the middle east than I do!

_________

OWVY, did you say you teach college? What subject if I may ask? (Not sure if you are saying the 9 year old is extremely intelligent - 8th grade reading comprehension, or your comprehension of the middle east is at an 8th grade level.)

Anon..

Your sister takes a kid out of a school simply because she does not want her child knowing how to put a condom on? Now I would first ask, since you did not say, what age the child was. Do you know what age most have sex for the first time. I would have perhaps, depending on age, taught him myself! That whole idea of "don't talk about sex & they won't have it" has long been found totally untrue!

Should all ages of children be taught about Global Warming at the extreme consequences? No! But you can talk about it in a way that is just to help the planet so they are not throwing trash outside etc. I'd suggest you watch An Inconvenient Truth. My college students watch it. Do I want a 7 yr old to watch it? NO! Can you still have them understanding how to not waste etc as they grow up & with each age they are older explain more of the consequences? Yes. Another great site is http://www.storyofstuff.com/ and this can also certainly help with all the "stuff" they want. Remember also every child is different even at the same age. I know a 9 yr old that is reading at 8th grade level. She understands more about the middle east than I do! She asks for her birthday for everyone to buy chicks for poor countries instead of the typical toys & girl stuff for presents! You can't generalize. This is also why parental involvement is extremely important. You don't just not talk about it. You talk about it as support & ASK QUESTIONS. You would be amazed what kids know about sex, or think they know, at very early ages. You think it was interesting what we found out as kids...it is so much more now. My 11 1/2 yr old niece just asked over Christmas break what boys like in girls! Thankfully she has a good relationship with me & her dad to come to us & ask on her own. Then you get the extreme, which I posted before, college students do not even know when the heart starts beating gestationally, that the first time you have sex you can actually get pregnant or that yes an 18 yr old can have HIV already, it only takes one time also! It is a very interesting when they have not even thought how a potential sex partner (keeping it clinical here but...) could have been abused as a child and that abuser may have been HIV positive. You can tell they have never thought of that before. Incredible to us but they lack hypothetical thinking and have that invincibility frame of mind.

Ok I'll apologize in advance for piling on, but did I just read above that Mr. Dan Denys, arch foe of educational spending, write that he thinks spending over 14K per student in Lisle when D203 spends 10.25K per student represents only marginally higher spending? Gee Dan, would you be willing to marginally increase 203's spending to that level?

Responding (a little bit) to Dan Denys

There is a number of ways 203 delivers individualized instruction to its students. If Dan doesn't want to accept that, so be it.

Regarding Lisle, I used that example because it is next door and it's such a stark difference. Don't like Lisle as an example? OK, fine, then lets use all these towns; Barrington, Hinsdale, St. Charles, and Geneva, Vernon Hills, Northfield, and Elmhurst. They all spend more than D203 and achieve less. Every single one, and I bet there are more than these frankly.

Dan's comments belie his ultimate concern, which is he wants to pay lower taxes, period. If the tax base is large enough, and the number of students low enough, he apparently doesn't care if they spend 40% more than 203, if it means his taxes would be lower.

I have a better recomendation. Why doesn't D203 merge with Lisle, bring its curriculum to them and use economies of scale, if nothing else, to reduce costs? It makes no sense to have a 1600 student CUSD school district with its own separate administration costing over $14K per student.

Lastly, I've said this before, and it looks like I'll have to repeat if forever. I have zero relationship with the teachers union.I am Co-chair of QE203.org an independent educational advocacy group. It is unfortunate that Dan Denys persists in trying to link me to other organizations where no relationship exists, in order to (in his mind) damage my credibility.

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I would love to see the teacher's unions done away with. I don't think the unions do a single thing toward benefitting the education of our children. What other profession could work about six and a half hours a day, have nearly three months of vacation time per year, and become virtually 'untouchable' after a designated period of time regardless of their performance? I think there is entirely too much 'fluff' in both of our school districts and I think it's high time it be restructured. In an elementary school, I think it is extremely poor planning and unnecessary to schedule weekly teacher meetings during critical instructional time. Weekly. This was done during my son's math class all year last year. The substitute who filled in once a week contradicted what the regular classroom teacher taught on the other four days of the week, and it confused and frustrated the students. The regular classroom teacher and principal were both approached my numerous parents and responded with lip service. Nothing changed all year. Needless to say, we struggled with math and had to 'undo' a lot of incorrect instructions. If teachers and administration weren't so protected and had to be accountable for their actions, then maybe our children would finally receive the quality education we are paying for with our high tax rate in Naperville. If they were rewarded on merit, there would be more of an incentive to perform. Right now with the method of teaching to the test, they are basically giving them the answers for the ISAT tests so the schools/districts scores inaccurately reflect continued progress. In my book, that's cheating.

Higgin's quote

"all cost additional money, as they carve out smaller subsets of students and give them more individualized classes."

Uh, no Thom. THE SOCIALISTIC 203 CIRRICULUM REQUIRES 100% INCLUSION, NO "INDIVIDUALIZED CLASSES." How dare you say that students be treated different.

In a large school district, this could be achieved by simply grouping students by ability rather than the current system. NO EXTRA COST. Just like foreign language, make that a requirement to be an elementary classroom teacher, no extra teacher.

There is a way to deliver a service cost effectively or like a government and their unions. I think we can all see the difference. You would expect nothing less from the Union spokesmen.

But then again, even the Union spokesman acknowledges that the District does an awful job on communicating its cirriculum since he is going to try to do it. Little hint Thom, they told me only one type, no special attention except for limited PI programs. Put that in your writeup.

Another Higgin's quote

"The Lisle SD just next door spends 40+% more and achieves less than we do. They aren't spending wisely."

Such arrogance. Two points. First, the Lisle school district does not include Green Trails or the Leask Lane houses. So the district has as lower per capita income. I think again we are seeing what causes higher test scores, wealth of the family, not educational spending.

Second, Lisle school taxes are lower than 203 since they have a more diverse tax base. So while they spend more per student, they spend less in taxes. It seems as though they are trying to make up for being at a disadvantage to wealthier communities. Also, they have lost enrollment over the past fifteen years, Lisle High School was built for 1,000 students, it has only 400. They have only one school for every grade level. So they have smaller class sizes, therefore higher spending, marginally.

Unfortunately political correctness and activism are part of the public school curriculum. The teacher’s union funds all of the ultra-liberal candidates which says a lot about how the teachers want to shape the (kids) country.

We now have National Gay day in the public schools.

I clearly remember my sister’s kid freaking out because they couldn't find a banana to bring to elementary school for “how to put on a condom day” in Florida. She kept them home that day and pulled all three of her kids out of public school at a huge cost to her and her husband. Years later, she re-enrolled them in a city magnet high school; they were repeatedly assaulted at the school (sounds like North) and on the bus because they were white. One was allowed back into the Catholic School (he was first academically) the other was not. To survive, he joined a gang in the school and hid in the band room for two years. Both had very high IQs; the oldest was stuck in the public school and joined gang for self defense. He now drives a delivery truck after getting his GED. Thanks public schools.

My youngest told me that for the first time in their life they were afraid of the future. I asked them why. “Global warming is killing the planet and I don't want to die”. I explained to them that Global Warming is one of many theories on weather and that some think its cooling. I asked them if they discussed global warming or other theories of weather in class. "No Daddy, the Teachers just want you to agree with them".

Thanks 203 for costing my kid restful sleep and making their stomach hurt since there is nothing a grade school kid can do about the global temperature with an unproven PC theory. Years ago, we had watch the holocaust films and nuclear bomb affects films so we could lose sleep over Nazis and nukes. Leave the kids alone and focus on teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic. I would say values, but since all values are the same, don’t teach them any.

I hate telling my kid to “pretend that they agree with the teacher” so that they won’t be pressured by someone who has complete control over them.

Literacy rates were higher (Mass has the numbers to prove it) when everyone home schooled and the public schools were set up for the poorest and new immigrants to teach them basics in English, their new language. Abolish the schools and give everyone vouchers for their kids. The public schools don’t work; they’re just one more union activist group that is always trying to use their monopoly provider position to extract more money and benefits from their captive customers.

A median income of 60K (for 8 months work) plus benefits (20%?) = $108 K a year at a private company with no benefits. Not bad. This is my guess at the median and benefits load. I like a lot of the teachers, but the union is really too much as is 203 admin.

Very true, OWVY. I think too much emphasis is put on the test scores and assessments instead of just 'teaching'. I have three children in District 204 and there is such a blatant teaching-to-the-tests rather than teaching the material and the tests will prove they learned it. I don't agree with that method, but I know they do it because of funding. At the elementary school level, so much real instructional time is taken away from the students because of all-day teacher meetings regarding ISATs and ISAT-driven teaching. I hope this is something that will be addressed.

Keyboard Rambo

You are completely correct that just "throwing Bucketful's of money" isn't the answer. But specialized programs like the PE program, or the Academy Program, or Enrichment in the Elementary schools, all cost additional money, as they carve out smaller subsets of students and give them more individualized classes.

They key question is how effectively does a SD utilize what money it spends. The four SD's that have higher academic performance than 203 spend on average 30+% than we do. These SD's have additional funds and they know how to use them. The Lisle SD just next door spends 40+% more and achieves less than we do. They aren't spending wisely. There are a large number of SD's that spend more than 203 but achieve less than 203.

If 203 had more funding could it offer mores educational opportunities that lead to increased ACT scores? Yes, I think so, and one way to do it is through more targeted, individualized instruction initiatives, such as the programs I've outline above.

Keyboard Rambo...

While I overall agree with your idea that just throwing money irresponsibly is not the solution, money is A factor in the quality of teacher. Just like any other employee on this planet if your salaries are not decent it will demotivate you. You do all the "extra work" that money can never pay for & then get a stinky salary...not good. I think you realize this. Try hiring an excellent teacher. They hear of the salary & if it is below a certain point they say 'no thank you'.

And Another Anonymous is so right on parental involvement! It is vital. If you value education your children will. And heck, if you review with them you'll be more successful on "Smarter than a 5th grader!" :-)

One of the issues which needs to be brought up with our new adminstration & fixing No Child Left Behind is how money is spent on Assessment & not on methods in way to help children learn. You can assess all you want and find out they are not doing well but if you do not have money in the plan to help those poor grades you are not going to find out anything has improved by the next year. Money needs to be spend in helping teachers find out how children's brains think differently & the various methods to help children learn in a way which is best for them.

Yes, Maryland pays more in income taxes (although they get to itemize which overstates these higher rates).

Let's implement the Michigan plan. Institute a statewide tax and totally eliminate local taxes.

FURTHER, allow inter district transfers based on available spaces. Michigan residents can go anywhere in the County since local taxes have been eliminated. School districts compete for students since if they have lower enrollment, they lose funding. Lansing schools lost 35% of their enrollment as students switched.

Now Lansing schools are not near ours. But imagine schools with extra capacity trying to recruit students so they could have more staff? The focus for once would be on students and not on teachers salaries.

The competition among schools in suburban Detroit is one of the few positives in Michigan today.

Excellent post, Rambo.
I would like to add the importance of parental involvement in their child's education to the list of what factors make up a quality education. You can have excellent teachers, but if you don't have parents who foster an interest in learning or support the educators and schools, then it is a steeper hill for the student to climb.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the success of the Learning Readiness PE program which is garnering so much attention lately a direct result of a small hand full of excellent (and most likely completely underpaid) teachers, and not because tax payers dump buckets full of money in to the school system?

The problem with the Naperville school systems costing so much is a direct result of the remarkably prevalent attitude in Naperville in that the more expensive something is the better it is. Education isn't really something you can throw money at to fix. Class participation, teachers who interest and engage their students, and piquing the curiosity of a student who otherwise would just tune out and send text messages aren't really things you can buy with tax money.

Anon;

You might find this of help:

For tax year 2008, Maryland's graduated personal income tax rates start at 2 percent on the first $1,000 of taxable income and increase up to a maximum of 6.25 percent on incomes exceeding $1,000,000. Nonresidents are subject to a special nonresident tax rate of 1.25 percent, in addition to the state income tax rate.

Maryland's 23 counties and Baltimore City also levy a local income tax, which is collected on the resident state tax return as a convenience to local governments.

So sure there property taxes better be lower when they are paying higher State Income Tax, and a County Income Tax. Many states fund a greater portion of the cost of education through income taxes trather than property taxes as we do in Illinois.

The real question is, as always, how much do they spend per pupil to educate their kids?

I saw a figure of $13,500 mentioned anecdotaly as the cost at that school district. Are you willing to pay more income taxes, with potentially more going to the SD's, if you save on property taxes?

Dan,

Montgomery County MD has a County wide school system. The last time I spoke with my high powered numbers friend in Chevy Chase they thought I was way off when I told them my tax rate.

In Dist 203 I believe we pay something like 2% of assessed value in property taxes. My friend's comment was that 2% is the highest in the US that he has ever heard of. He travels a lot and has lived in a lot of other high end suburbs all over the US. If I recall correctly, Montgomery taxes are something like 1% or less of assessed value. I recall someone complaining that they were paying $2500 on an $800K house a few years ago. Like Naperville before the referendums passed.

I'm pretty sure that neighborhood associations in MoCo will threaten, then take the County to Court to get their tax rates lowered when the actual sales in their development prove that there has been a significant price drop. The County folds when they know they have determined opposition and a losing case.

My understanding is that there is a County wide high school where the criminally inclined are sent so they can get the attention they need. Do their high schools require armed guards?

If someone out there has the exact numbers, feel free to chime in.

Editor Tim, maybe the Sun could run a series of articles comparing Naperville and Dupage to the other top 25 counties in the USA. Schools, parks, crime rates etc....

Is this how a "mediocre" school district performs?

DISTRICT 203 TO BE FEATURED FRIDAY MORNING ON CBS NEWS - THE EARLY SHOW

CBS national news visited Naperville District 203 last fall to videotape a piece featuring Naperville Central’s Learning Readiness PE program, which has attracted both state and national attention. According to the producer of that segment, it is expected to air Friday, January 30, on CBS News - The Early Show, which runs from 7 to 9 AM (Central time). Learning Readiness PE is a partnership between physical education and academic classroom teachers that has resulted in increased learning and performance opportunities for student participants.

Did anyone see it?

Anonymous321...

You missed a piece, you can go to a CC & still graduate from a excellent quality Unversity or college! I'm not sure why you didn't realize that. Has anyone done a study on the graduates of Naperville. Where do they go? Did they graduate from there? How long did they take to graduate? What was their gpas at graduation time & compare to gpas when they graduated HS. ETC! I would think that would be very beneficial to your community.

Keyboard Rambo...

Please tell the administrators that! Most faculty know this. And the bubble sheets of just exams are used most often due to practicality. Not likely you can even grade one paper in a class section of 500! Who wants large lecture halls? Administrators...more students per teacher they feel they are getting more $ in for what they give out! Most faculty enjoy teaching the smaller classes. I have taught 250 or more & I still tried to go up in the aisles etc. Not easy. You can make T/F MC question ones that involve critical thought but harder to get them to do this during class to practice when they are large. This is why I love teaching at a CC because I get to know my students & can do many projects which allows them to critically think. Many school are using other items than just an ACT or SAT score now for acceptance. They look at Extra Curriculars, volunteer, they do interviews themselves for some when they are highly selective. UofI & the like, is not likely to. And btw to all...that little diploma doesn't really do too much. It may at times get you in the door but what matters is what you do once you get in that door. I know someone that went to a small college & he is working at places like Arthur Anderson, Price Waterhouse etc with all these guys who have Harvard degrees hanging up, so it is not just the school you go to. A study was done hmm more than 5 yrs ago I believe and it showed that Northwestern Grads 1 year after graduation were not working in the area of their major unless it was a very specialized major! If someone wants the reference let me know & I'll try to find it.

Higgins will never give this up.

It's not the houses that sold, it's the houses that have not sold.

Bankers and appraisers are telling people values are down 20 to 25% to get a loan. And more significant over the $400,000 level. This is the reason for foreclosures.

Second, I know many people with houses that either had to take 25% less or are waiting for an offer. They take the houses off the market for 30 days and then put them back on. It distorts all of these values. I would be glad if my house has only lost 20% of value.

And of the $5,000 average school taxes, only $500 is the problem, the excesses from neighbors who will have a beer with Obama, but not with Sean Hannity or me. And not all property tax assessment have increased. For those who have not, the over collection has been "recovered."

Will teachers take a pay freeze in 203 like they did in Montgomery County? Montgomery County is 14 in per capita income in 2005, DuPage is 43. Would make sense since tax cap will effectively be zero next year. The powers in suburban Maryland are light years ahead of us.

I love how much importance is put on standardized testing, and how heavily everyone weighs a child's ability to quickly fill in bubbles on a test answer sheet above everything else. Real learning is not standardized. The ACT doesn't test on curiosity, perseverance, common sense, creativity, or any other quality that shows something other than the ability to successfully cram for a test.

Are Naperville schools turning out better students, or are they just better at training their students for the exact material covered on the ACT? I am not sure who is benefitting from teachers drilling ACT material in to students' heads with practice test after practice test outside of realtors who use District 203 as a selling point, or administrators who use their district's mean test score as a way to measure their "success" in order to validate their pay raises.

It is time to shake up the District 203 school board. Suzyn Price and her cronies like Higgins have made a bad situation worse. Skyrocketing property taxes, with plummeting real estate values. A Perfect Storm, that many saw coming but Crotty, Romberg, Price, Jaensch, etc. defied all logic and got us into this mess. Now is your chance Naperville residents to throw the bums out. Vote NO for Crotty and Romberg, and do not vote for Jim Dennison, he's another recruit of Price, Crotty, and Romberg. You will get the same old baloney from him.

Naperville residents! It's time to take back our schools. REVOLT and throw the BUMS out!!!

Dan D.,

OTOH, I think I made my 11:43 AM post without thinking through the probable methodology in the S&P/Case Shiller index. You probably don't need a home to be bought and re-sold in a short time-frame if you have a big enough data set as a means of comparison. So it is a more meaningful measure than median price or average price of all homes sold. But we still need something that is specific to Naperville, and Thom's data at least has that advantage.

-JQP

Dan D.,

The S&P/Case Shiller Home Price Index is not very meaningful in regards to Naperville, either---at least not as a year-to-year measure. How many Naperville homes sold in 2007 were re-sold in 2008? My guess is not more than a handful.

-JQP

Thom,

The only conclusion one can draw from your most recent post is that our sub-par school district must be driving down housing prices in Naperville. ;-)

-JQP

The number of football players and basketball players is significant in the entire school population - at most 150 players in a student body of 20,000? The athletes in those sports could have ACT scores of 0 and it wouldn't make a difference.

Also, UI has different standards for in state and out of state students. Many of those students who had ACT scores under 28 are likely to have come from other states.

OWVY,
I think that one of my major points was that there a whole range of schools and types of schools, and the best choice is very my based on the individual, not on the brand name. I know that the community college system in Illinois, or at least in the W. suburbs is pretty good, for what it is, as is the state school system.
A better question for the individual parent and student is: what school and what type of school are better for your individual student. For mine, the CC system wasn't either necessary nor was it desirable, for others it might be a perfect fit and a good solution.
I guess I'd contend that students should go to the best school [of that type that will suit them, small-medium-large and urban-suburban-rural, etc] that they can get into and afford.
I tend to think, and my experience has borne out, that the better the schools ratings, the better the education and opportunities that follow. Your mileage may vary, and what has worked for me, and for my family may not work for you or yours.
In general terms, however, I'd say that a student who can go to a high quality University or College should do so, and that seems to cover a large percentage of students who graduate from d203, which is where we started this whole conversation.

Dan,

The index covers, as you state, the entire Chicago area.

You indicate the index shows Chicago declined 12.4% last year (will you please post the link where you found the data?) Additionally I will bet it covers all housing types, not just Single Family Detached as mine does.

Nevertheless the Case Schiller number of 12.4% is close to the 11.3% reported for all homes single family detached sales in the Chicago area, as reported by the Multiple Listing Service of Northern Illinois. If, as I assume, the CS covers all housing types I'm surprised that there is only a 1% variance, as I thought that condo's and town homes were declining more. So I'll view your 12.4% as good news actually.

If the median sale price in Naperville is 422K in 08 then there will have to be a fair number of homes sold over 500K, although I'm sure the bigger the price tag the harder it is to sell. I would think that would be true throughout the country, not just Naperville. Getting Jumbo loans is tough these days.

Here's the stat's

Total number of homes sold Chicago area

2008 35,585
2007 45,227

Decline 21.3%

Average sale price

2008 304K
2007 338K

decline 10.1%

Median sale price

2007 235K
2008 265K

decline 11.3%

So in very rough numbers, Naperville looks to have declined about 42% less than the Chicago area in total.

Higgins numbers are not very meaningful, they are medians and do not really measure comparable houses.

The more meaningful statistic is the S&P/Case Shiller Home Price Index. The key to this index is that it measures changes for the EXACT HOUSE when it resells (the "sales Pair"). Instead of me describing the statistic, please consult the following source:

http://www2.standardandpoors.com/spf/pdf/index/SP_CS_Home_Price_Indices_Factsheet.pdf

This index shows Chicago area falling 12.4% in the last year, 16% from the peak. Appraisers are coming back with numbers that are even lower (since houses are not getting into the sales pair yet).

I am also told that most houses over $500,000 are not selling at all. Higgins comment about Naperville's housing values is like McCain's that the economy is great.

For anyone who's interested I just received the stats for single family home sales in Naperville for the calendar year 2008:

# of homes sold

2008 1156
2007 1457

20.7% decline

Average price

2008 485K
2007 512K

5.3% decline

Median price

2008 422K
2007 452K

6.6% decline.

In the Chicago area there were a few towns that eked out a 2-5% increase, many, many were down 20-30% and some of the South Side neighborhoods and suburbs are down 60-80%.Yes, 60-80%

In 2006 we were down 1.9% and 1.8% respectively.

Both Anonymous...

Where are you getting your data on avg ACT scores? Look here page 9

http://www.act.org/news/data/08/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf

2008 Composite ACT Avg was about 21...not much difference between IL & National!

Are you saying Naperville's avg score is 25? Then you are above avg for state & nation! If you want your students to all attend Harvard then yes you have some things to do, but why would you want them all to go to these school is the question? What do you feel a degree from those schools guarantee? Do you think those graduates in wonderful jobs are immune now from losing their jobs? Are they necessarily happier?

Also some of you obviously have not been on a community college campus at all or in a very long time! Your stereotype of CC students being those with such low ACT scores, that they can't get into what you define apparently as "a real college" have no clue what you are talking about. There may be some students who have low ACT scores, some who even are not even at college level. I have them, but there are many students who have quite high ACT scores. Students go to community colleges for many reasons. One is financial. We have many students who mom & dad now says tuition at UofI or other universities is too much, especially with today's economy. Some did not get paperwork in on time for acceptance or scholarships. Some do not want to go away from home, some just say hey the community college's in IL have an agreement the the state the courses have to be the same & the Univeristies have to accept them so it is only makes sense to go 2 yrs to a community college & then transfer with an Associates. My school for example is 75% less than what it costs at a state university and more than 60% of our students transfer to Universities. Did you know that CC students typically get higher gpas than those who start at a University as a freshman. We also have many older adults who are very accomplished & who are coming back to gain more jobs skills or changing careers. In fact, our avg age for credit courses is 28 yrs old! Did you know that many of the students who were straight A students in HS are the ones who struggle the most when they go off to Universities? And the next semester they go to a community college. Why are they not doing well? Many influenes...they can not balance living on their own for the first time. Some are not prepared for the speed of knowledge in one term, study techniques, extra curriculars of course ETC!

Some further thoughts:

The claim that 15% attend private schools is highly suspect. Someone on the Herald website made the same claim and gave a complicated census link and process. Here was my response:

As for as the Census, thanks, it was interesting, but I can't get too excited about the validity of these numbers if the margin of error on the public side is like 24% and the private school is 60%. Seriously, are you willing to defend a number like the 847 kids that are supposed to be in private HS when the margin of error is plus or minus 712? This looks like a statical SWAG more than anything else, as I don't see those huge margin of error values elsewhere.

To the claim I'm making the case that funding drives test scores, No. Is it true that top performing districts that exceed our ACT scores have more funds available and they know how to allocate those funds"? Yes. But it is also true that a number of districts, with similar socioeconomic characteristics, spend more and achieve less. So more money isn't a silver bullet.

As far as the 100% increase claim, for a host of reasons, costs have risen at all SD's not just 203.

Thom Higgins,

You make the case that funding drives test scores.

How much have test scores gone up with the 100% increase in funding over the recent years?

If it helps, subtract out the bottom one or two percent at our High Schools that require armed police officers to contain them and protect the other students.

Instead of spending so much of 203's time and money on a new building for kids that will perform well in any building; should we be compassionate and build a medical annex on the High School campuses where the truly needy students could be given the proper psychiatric care they need and deserve?

I believe that we should not give up on these students until every treatment in the psychiatric bag of tricks has been completely exhausted helping them model normal behavior.

Anonymous

Do your children go there?

Answer: 60% of 203 residents do not have children. Of he 40% that do, 15% go to private school or are home schooled.

Question for you? How can costs increase higher than inflation with a declining enrollment?

Great value and management.

The point of the major land grant schools like the U of I is that they take the top students from the whole state. It's ridiculous to think that all students would go there. At the risk of showing my own bias, I wouldn't send any student to U of I as an undergraduate. It's basically a factory, these days, with very few classes at that level under 50 students, and virtually no contact with actual professors until late in the Jr. year, at best. It's all run by teachers assistants, nearly unpaid labor run the graduate students.
The reason that the states have created the Northerns, Easterns, Southerns and etc is because the major schools are not designed for all students. How could it be otherwise, unless there was one gigantic campus. As if Urbana wasn't too huge already. How many state schools are there in Illinois right now? I can count 9 without trying, including different campuses like U of I and UIC, and the one in springfield, and that's not even thinking of the community colleges and private schools.
If you think that your children are deserving of a U of I education, visit the place, and ask questions. Lots and lots of them. There are SO MANY schools available, the trick is to make a realistic choice about what your own children need and want, but primarily need. One of my kids would never have made it through the enormous Urbana campus, but did exceptionally well at a much smaller campus, where the focus was on individuality, and finding the strengths of the individual student. Another went to a major state school [not the U of I] and did wonderfully. Different kids, different needs, different schools. That's why there are so many, you know.
As for this Thom person, he's a bit off putting, but whatever. He's decided, for whatever reason, that he's going to wave the flag of district 203, and that can't be a bad thing, now, can it? Let him compile his numbers, and then try to make sense of them. Some of what he's done seems to be worthwhile, and that's fine.

For those of you that keep saying, over and over, that the costs of the school system are too high, I ask you:

Do your children currently go there?

Higgins

Are those links District sites? I don't think so.

They keep everything close to the vest. They must be ashamed. They have no clue why you would want to promote them so shamelessly.

Don't be Hosed,

All the information I discuss is available to everyone at this website:

http://webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/getSearchCriteria.aspx

Further if you go here:

http://www.qualityeducation203.org/20080205referendum/costperformance_mediasurvey.shtml

you will find links, spreadsheets, and analysis of various studies. All available to everyone on the internet, and none of it from D203.

Responding to the continuing comments about ACT scores:

Out of all public school districts in the Chicago area D203 has the 5th highest cumulative ACT score. D203 is recognized by USN&WR as being in the top 3% of all public school districts.

To say that 203 is mediocre when the vast majority of school districts fall below it, is inexplicable to me. What should we make of these many, many, districts who score lower than 203?

Not every student of any given school district is interested in, or capable of attending, elite Colleges or Universities.

The cold hard verifiable fact is D203 excels at educating this communities children, and they do it for a modest sum compared to other SD's.

Redskin

Yeah, I've done similar back of the envelope calculations, on how much we pay over the years. And again my only solace I can give you is the actual amount spent is higher, meaning that most parents will not pay enough in taxes to pay for their kids education. Business, the State, and the Fed's kick in, as do those who never have kids.

If you go here;

http://www.qualityeducation203.org/20080205referendum/documents/chapter_10_sorted_rank_dh_data.pdf

You will see the Daily Herald computation of the costs for 11 years of school. The high is $169,000 and the low is $89,000. 203 came in at $101,000.

Other states fund more of the cost, reducing the property taxes, but have higher income taxes. That idea has been floated here, but no one trusts our state government(of either party) with any more income tax revenue, and districts like ours worry they would loose funding.

Funding is a national problem, and with a deflationary environment, here in Illinois property taxes will not be rising, so that might make you feel better, but it will cause 203 and other districts to see if they can do more with the same money. It will be harder on 203 because of the relative lower amount they already spend. I think you want the SD's to significantly reduce the costs and I just don't see that happening absent some major national or state initiative. There are no easy answers.

What do you expect from a school system where there is a one size fits all educational program.

No magnet schools
No grouping students by ability
Junior high students taking complex subjects from teachers who do not have the appropriate college work to promote socialistic team concept
Disruptive pull out special programs

More interesting, if a student is assigned to a dud teacher, the smart parent pulls all stops to get out including pulling student from school and readmitting until they get the right teacher. Principals facilitate this since there are enough parents who do not know to object.

The inmates run the insane asylem.

Do the ACT scores include football and baskeball players? If that is the case, of course U of I will be lower. How many people other than football and basketball players with ACT scores less than 25? For that matter, what other special admissions programs are in effect?

And yes, Thom is so disingenuous and shameless in his protection of the school system, should I say the Union? Why do we have to hear from his cheerleading group rather than the District direct? Every time I made an inquiry of the school about policies and process, it was confidential, only relevant between the student and the school. Now they are giving him the information?

OK, they sold the marketing rights. How much money have they raised? Has this money been used to reduce property taxes since we paid for this?

What Is A Good ACT Score?

A good score on the ACT is different for each student, and depends on where you want to go to college.

Here are some rough, unofficial estimates of the average ACT score at various schools. The average isn't necessarily the score you need to get into a college (there are plenty of other factors involved for example your High School Record, interviews, activities, accomplishments, essays and recommendations). However, it's a good estimated figure if you're trying to decide whether your ACT score is good enough.

University

Unofficial Estimates

MIT 33

Duke 31

Boston University 28

University of Michigan 28

University of Illinois 28

Ohio State 26

From the University of Illinois admissions website:

Overall Selectivity for 2008 Admitted Freshmen
ACT Score Percentage of 2008 Admitted Freshmen
32 - 36 26%
27 - 31 51%
23 - 26 18%
22 or below 5%

An ACT score of 26 or below has approx 23% chance of gaining admissions to the U of I and you know full well that grades better be very good to offset a low test score along with a few other things. However, those students who have a 27 or higher enjoy 77% chance of gaining admissions. Keeping in mind that these two are average numbers and some colleges at the U of I are much more selective due to the intense competition.

Bottom line we want our children to go to college... all of them, not just some of them. I could personally care less about all the time Thom wastes comparing worthless information about other school districts, test scores, and costs. All I care about is how my kids do and I expect most other parents feel pretty much the same. The proof is in the pudding that the average test scores that 203 have been able to achieve are not good enough for the average student to get into some of our own state schools which we also support thru taxes. For every parent with a kid at the top of the class there are five running in the middle of the pack and those are the kinds of good, solid kids I care about who are not going to be able to get into a good school and if they do they may not have what it takes to graduate and wash out. We simply need to push ourselves to increase our level of performance. We have what we need in place already... this isn't about spending more money. This is about getting more out of what we have.

A great coach can create a great athlete. A great teacher can create great students. When coaches don't perform well enough they find someone else who is capable of getting the very best performance out of each and every one of the players. We need to start thinking about teachers in the same context we do coaches... our own children's future depends upon us doing everything we can to ensure their academic future. Wasting our time bragging about average test scores that won't get the average student from a community like Naperville into even our own U of I isn't something we should be bragging about... it should be something we are not happy with... not happy at all... and something we demand improve immediately and at a faster pace. And if improvement isn't forthcoming then we start making some leadership changes. I'm tired of all of the excuses and reasons why... everyone stands around blaming other factors and looking for someone else to accept responsibility. How many more of our children have to fall thru the cracks in our school system before we all finally wake up and realize it is up to us to take control and demand change?

Thom: my only issue is the extraordinary cost of the government education monolith and lack of uniform quality. Let me make an argument about the excessive cost and you tell me why I'm wrong.
Take a couple that has owned property in Naperville since 1978 and have two kids who went throught K-12 in 203. In 1978 the portion of the tax bill to schools was $1800 and in 2008 that portion was $6300. That is an average of $4050 in 30 years. Or $121,500 in 30 years of their income to the schools. Or $60,750 for the K-12 education of each of their children. And if they live in their house another 10 years and we retain the $4050 per year average to the schools, that will be $162,000 of their earnings over 40 years to the schools or $81,000 for the public education for each of their two children. Or finally, $6,750 for each year of public school education for EACH child. If we are going to even think about affordable housing, we simply must rethink how we educate our children.

Well,
12345, I'd say your figures are a bit misleading, because I wasn't talking about entry into special programs or professional schools, just standard entry into the schools in general. So, you're not really correcting me, but making a point of your own.
I'm not considering myself a cheerleader for anything except a quality education - I've no idea who Thom is [though I note that he spells his name oddly, and that is nearly as off putting as a moustache to me] nor do I know anything about the site he maintains, nor, finally, do I intend to go to it.
I haven't the time, the background nor [most importantly] access to the unvetted information to decide if we're getting good value for our educational dollar. I can say, however, that on standardized testing, it appears that 203 is substantially ahead of the curve, and on that measure is doing a fine job. I can also exhort them to do better, and hope that they will manage to do so.
If a very small percentage of the students of a large and diverse school district can regularly get in to the best schools in the country, while a large percentage of the students in that district regularly go on to college, that is a success.

By just look'in on January 28, 2009 7:34 AM
RE: Mr. super-plow job. Last year it was said he was paid $$25@hr.

Realy??? Last I heard he does this for FREE! Have you ever seen the Council people out there in the cold, working for Free? Or doing anything for Free? In Fact have you ever seen them working?

Anon321 your ACT numbers are slightly misleading. For example at the University of Illinois the premier programs Business or Engineering the following are the ranges of middle 50% of Students ACT scores

Business 28 - 32
Engineering 30-33

Don't support Thom's attempts to say by comparison to what everyone else is we have a good deal. I would estimate that less than 20% of our students fall into the middle 50% students in the engineering program in Urbana Champaign. Even more scary for programs like MIT or Stanford the test scores are even higher. Don't settle for what the district and its stary eyed cheerleader time proclaims is a good value.

Anonymous321

Yes, I saw your post and appreciate your comments.

I'm trying to pull together a piece on 203's curriculum, and I have to say that my problem is it's a really huge topic. I will be posting it on Qe203.org soon (mid February?) take a peek I think you will be surprised at what you read.

One tidbit. How many people knew that 203 has a elementary reading program that is so well regarded, the rights to market it were sold to Houghton Mifflin? I didn't.

Thom,
I pointed out the same thing, that the 25.2 is the average score, earlier this morning, so the distinction isn't lost on me, but is probably worth reinforcing.
My point, I suppose, is that with a 25.2 average, the 'average' student has the numbers to get into UNC-Chapel Hill, and the slightly above average student in this area have the test scores [and again, much more than than just these test scores will be required] to get considered, and accepted, by some of the best schools in the country. That is, in and of itself, very impressive, and runs counter to those who were saying earlier that mid-30s were required for anything but a middling state U.
There are so many areas of the school system that could be made better, but I'd submit that it's classic D203 to spend much time and energy on building facades. I can't object to high teacher salaries. Given what is asked of them, and the import they have on the future of all the kids, I'd like to find a way to pay them more. On other other hand, I also like the idea of the D.C. school leader - a good deal more pay but you give up tenure and had better be performing, or you're out. Of course, teacher's unions don't like that idea at all.
That said, my own kids are no longer in the 203 system, but I still think it's worth the tax dollars, not from any potential gain on my part, but for the simple good of society. Better schools eventually equal better citizens. I hope.

Anonymous231

the ACT score of 25.2 is the average of all students. Some do better, some do worse. And let's face it not every student, at any given school can attend these elite colleges.

Do 203 students get into the colleges you list Yes. Are there students in D203 schools that score in this range? Absolutely. I remember that Central had 2? that aced the ACT with a perfect score of 36 last year.

A few comments;

First, QE203.org has no affiliation or relationship with the teachers union. Never has, never will.

With respect to Jim Caudil, with regret, I endorsed Jim stepping down as Principal in the Sun Blog.

I am not advocating raising taxes in order to increase the level of spending to match the top 4 public SD’s. I am making the case that D203 responsibly spends our tax dollars. And considering the large number of SD’s that spend more and achieve lower academic results, such as Lisle, Barrington, Hinsdale, St. Charles, and Geneva, Vernon Hills, Northfield, and Elmhurst, among others, (many of these have higher “wealth” than 203), plainly shows that D203 excels at educating our children and a very reasonable price. This can be verified by anyone by going to the ISBE Report Card website. You can see the analysis I did last year of the ISBE report cards, (that I’m updating now for 2008) at:

http://www.qualityeducation203.org/20080205referendum/costperformance_mediasurvey.shtml

This is not my opinion it is a verifiable fact.

National Merit Semi Finalists: I remember seeing something that 203 has around 1/3 of all NMSF’s in Illinois last year. Take a look at Proud to be 203 for information on D203 achievements:

http://www.naperville203.org/about/ProudtoBe203.asp

ACT scores: Please remember that along with the numerical increase over the years there is also the fact that now all students take the ACT. And let’s remember only 4 SD’s in the Chicago Area post higher ACT’s (along with some admissions based private schools).

It is unfortunate that some in this community are unwilling to accept just how good a job D203 does, and especially for the dollars spent. If we could just all accept that fact as the given it is, then perhaps those of good will could discuss just how this community can help D203 achieve that next level of excellence we all desire.

There are more items posted here that I disagree with, but this is the best I can do

Because there are some that are making statements about easily checkable facts, how about this?

ACT Composite - Middle 50% of enrolled students
Brown 28-33
Columbia 28-33
Dartmouth 28-34
Harvard 31-35
Penn 29-33
William and Mary 27-32
GA Tech. 27-31
U of I - Urbana-Champaign 26-31
Michigan 27-31
UNC Chapel Hill - 25-30
Amherst - 29-34
Grinnell - 29-32
Reed - 28-32
Swarthmore - 27-32
all from: http://collegeapps.about.com/

A HS avg. of 25.2 puts a lot of D203 graduates into the range that would allow them to reasonably apply to these, some of the best schools in the country. Of course, other factors would be of equal, or probably more importance, and I believe that for the better class of schools, the SAT is preferred.

As for Anonymous 11:11,
Some good ideas, and the new Super should absolutely have but incentives and penalties built into the contract, though we both know that won't happen, but it is important to understand that education isn't an assembly line, and many of the elements that go into a very successful education really can't easily be measured, and are even harder to quantify over time.
Of course, I'll simply add my own pet peeve in all of this, and that is the PARENTAL involvement! HA! [as the strange lady says] Or, more precisely, the lack of it.

Anonymous,

Excellent post.

203 schools are fine, maybe "excellent" "PUBLIC SCHOOLS". Big deal, NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND COMPLIANT. Naperville deserves more.

We should have three Avery Coonley options that people do not have to pay $15,000 extra to get what really is a "World Class" education. By the way, even the parents their expect more from their school. I guess when you pay 100%, the stakes are greater. It is a shame that a parent can't get the equivalent of Avery Coonley until 5th grade and then it is rationed to only the top 1%.

It's too late now, but the next superintendent should be a former headmaster from an Eastern boarding school (Exeter, St. Pauls) where we could instill a real innovative learning environment.

I am tired about all this VALUE BS that Higgins panders. They push New Trier. I feel like our schools are run by a Soviet commune rather than a hallmark to the future.

Goals that should be set high, not low to give false hopes of attainment. But again, the entire system might be so out of control we need outside intervention.

Pass the Kool Aid!!

Thom,

Yes, the cost aspect of an education a piece of what is important though it isn't necessarily the most important piece. This isn't manufacturing we are not value engineering a part and determining it's worth.

At the same time we have an entire educational system in place.... school board, administration, teachers, facilities, PTA, parents, students. At this point in it's evolution the money is likely to vary widely due to too many other constraints, internal and external.

What we really are talking about is maximizing the performance of what we already have got and have paid for. If I was, and I'm not, willing to accept that your argument that an ACT increase from 21.7 in 1982 to 25.2 in 2008 is reasonable performance improvement then I would be compelled to point out that this works out to an annual increase of 0.135 point every year for 26 years. If this is the best rate of improvement that the SD is capable of and if it continues at a linear rate it will take over 44 years to get the scores up to a 32... and these are just the scores that are minimally needed for our children to gain admission to the best colleges and universities.

In the next 44 years we will likely graduate over 60,000 students from both high schools. How many of these students will have the opportunities in life they deserve and how many will be shut out simply because of how much or how little we demanded of our school board, our administration, our teachers, and yes our parents and students.

Right now the education system is just there, existing without sufficient direction and goals. The school board, the administration, and the teachers... read teachers union... are all scared to death to talk about true direction, true objectives, true goals, true performance standards because none of them want their little apple cart upset when the public realizes that they are incapable of setting or achieving goals. Even in the rare instances when some goals or objectives are set they are carefully written to be as non-specific as possible and so that it becomes and entirely subjective determination if or when the goals and objectives have been achieved.

We are about to hire a new Super. How about starting with some performance standards in his/her contract. How about starting with something like an ACT score of 27 in 2012? If they can't achieve it the contract doesn't get renewed... if they beat it I'm even up for rewarding them with a bonus. Don't get me wrong... there should be somewhere between 6 and 12 hard, concrete, objective performance standards by which performance is measured along with all of the usual subjective criteria. Please don't interpret this as only one performance standard on ACT scores as that is not what I am suggesting.

Bottom line, if we as a community want to raise our educational performance we need to raise our expectations across the board and to do this we simply have to clearly communicate what we as a community expect from those we trust to deliver education. The status quo can't be just good enough anymore. We can't allow performance to plateau or stagnate. And we can't accept excuse why performance has not been achieved... especially when we are providing the tools to achieve success. We simply must push ourselves to become better, stronger, and to better utilize every single asset we already have in place. And for those who perform there will be great success and for those who fail to perform will be other opportunities for them in other communities.

Right now "world class" is catchy, but pretty much a hollow motto. It is time we started living up to what "world class" really means. Imagine educational excellence AND "world class"... now that would be something of which we could all be proud!

The best way to have excellent an public education system, is parents must pay about 20 per cent of the cost. As soon as this is done, budgeting and student performance will both be improved.

Higgins comment

"And lets not forget that D203 abated the first years payment on the referendum. They were completely within their rights to assess it but they choose not to."

THAT IS MIGHTY NICE OF THEM!!!!!

After taking $90 million more than they PROMISED, they give back $400,000. Are they going to limit the remaining bonds to 19 years or will they take back their "gift."

By the way, how is returning our money a gift? You must come from a different background than the rest of us.

I wonder if the new superintendent has any integrity? It's been years......

First for all, Thom Higgins is a "partner" with a group of people aligned with the Teachers Union. You have to take any comment he makes with a grain of salt. He even defends the "Plagerist" Claudill to the dying day.

Some points for clarification.

1. The other District's that do better have higher assessments. New Trier has six times the value (WEALTH) of 203. But they spend only 40% more than 203. Also, in the spending, they have more programs and teachers with 3 PHD's and Ivy League educations.

WE CANNOT POSSIBLY AFFORD TO KEEP UP WITH A DISTIRCT THAT IS SIX TIMES MORE WEALTHY. If 203 teachers want to get paid more, they should have been hired in New Trier (Oops, they tried and did not!!).

2. I think the more relevant statistic to predict ACT performance is WEALTH. Notice that the four schools that do better have higher spending. If you look at their statistics, they have higher WEALTH (not just New Trier, but others as well). The parents spend money to give their children every advantage. They do not do that in middle and lower class communities because they simply do not have the resources.

3. Are Naperville schools getting worst since there has been a 25% decline in National Merit Semi Finalists? Or are the top performers of the public schools, the Asian community relocating to other areas (such as Stevenson) instead?

4. A median Naperville house in these other higher wealth communities has a substantially lower property tax. Do lower taxes promote higher home value?

5. The new central looks like the International Terminal at O'Hare. Where has the Board been in reviewing the progress on this spending of $114 million? Now that the board reports are posted, they seem to be seeing only crumbs. Only Leis sees the plans and he really lacks vision. He came from Virginia where they gave him little jobs that it did not matter if they were done wrong. The best school in his district was ready to fall down under his watch (Thomas Jefferson High School).

6. Why no magnet schools or charter schools in 203? Why not look at the bus schedule after 30 to 40 years? Why does the teachers contract PROHIBIT surveys of parents on teacher performance? Why are social workers (covered by teachers contract) prohibited from maintain a time log? Why are teachers hired at double time to supervise lunch hours ($100 per hour) when a clerk could do that at $10 per hour?

7. But instead of complaining, why not hire an independent firm to compare Naperville Central to New Trier? Let's get facts.

District 203 was a very productive school until Weber and Leis came. They have radically increased taxes, lowered accountability, and sold out to the union. District 203 is viewed as a laughing stock by other school districts. We hired Weber after he destroyed Lockport and no other school district would hire him. The real problem was when he got union people (led by Costello) elected to rehire him. I guess we get what we deserve because as voters we have conceded the District to the union.

Anonymous @ 11:39 p.m.
Do you not get the idea that the 25.2 is an average score? That means that there are some students who are scoring a good deal higher than that, and thus likely to get into the highest profile, most selective schools. Of course, it also means that some students are scoring lower than that, and they're the ones who are going to the lesser state schools and the community colleges.
Q. E. D.
When talking about the tax rates for schools in D203, one of the things that I have noticed is that the people who think that the rates are utterly too high are often (not always) those whose children have already finished school. On the other hand, those who think that a good deal more money should go into the school system are those who have some sort of connection with the process, not always just teachers or those related to them, but those with some sort of stake in the process.
The schools here do a very fine job - among the finest in the state - with the resources they have. Could they do the same job with less? Of course that's not only possible, it's likely. But many, many people choose to live here precisely because of the educational opportunities and facilities. If you don't like the costs associated with this...

Wow, a minimum 30 on your act as a baseline. Insane. you can get into pretty much any land grant school with a 26. Get a clue. It parents like you that lead your kids down the path of ritalin and addiral.

Maybe the mayor ONLY receives 20k for that job,let's check out the other FOUR public/taxpayer jobs he gets PAID for doing. Can any of you even name ONE. What a joke 5 paychecks,one including Mr. super-plow job. Last year it was said he was paid $$25@hr. Would you like to plow in a CITY truck at your whim and be paid 25$.Tollway ain't a bad check either. oops gave 1 away.Double-triple and quadruple dipping is a form of COMBINE corruption. Anyone interested in working to REFORMILLINOISNOW.ORG PLS CHECK OUT THE SITE. They again are asking for YOUR help and ideas, do you have any?? BTW toss up tuesday sounds alot like our idea(we submitted)Free for all friday,so thanks alot CHRIS.

Anonymous

Two thoughts

First, D203 is certainly in the top 5% in ACT scores in Illinois. I'm in the process of updating the QE203.org website that discusses cost and academic performance, but what I've found with the 2008 ISBE report cards is that there is only four public school districts that have higher ACT's than 203 and they spend on average 33% more. Think about that. Then consider the many, school districts that spend more but achieve less (around 25).

I goofed in the Sun today BTW I should have said D203 was the fifth highest not the fourth.

There are, of course, a number of small (avg's of 300-700 student) admissions based private HS's and the, again admissions based, CPS College Prep HS's that do better than 203, but that's it.

Second, you are wrong on the ACT scores not improving. 203 has climbed from a composite score of 21.7 in 1982 to a 25.2 score in 2008, and they went from 70-85% taking the test to 100%. So yes, they have improved the score and now all students take the test not just the college bound as before. Is every district's goal to improve this? Of course.

People are complaining about what someone wears when there are so many other more important problems in our society! I was going to post on this even before I realized Oprah had a show on it tonight. Her show is on Childhood Obesity. You wonder why students ACT scores are going down...ask teachers! ONE factor is how sugar comatosed they are after lunch. The show went into the cafeterias & showed the food they were offered and the choices they made. They had Dr. Oz on & the guy who wrote "Eat This Not That". Even the adults in the audience were failing miserably on what was worse to eat! Many of use know as we got older it was harder to keep weight off with our busy lives & fast passed life not making good choices but the kids are tired & can't concentrate from what they are eating, how much tv & video games & computer (myspace) & texting they are doing & not exercising...outside playing like when I was a kid. More & more of my students are coming in drinking mega doses of Caffiene drinks! Horrific! Why are they? Because they can't stay awake & then why is that?!

Next, something I am working on with my students is problems they have in learning. No, I'm not talking about those with severe learning problems who need special populations services. Almost all students. Now I think back to my childhood & I don't know that anyone really taught me how to take notes, critically think specifically etc. I'm not sure how I did as well as I did but then again I'm not a Harvard grad so maybe if they did I would be even better, but I have students who do not even know what it is important in a video? They do not take notes because they do not know what is important to take notes on. They think they are going to remember things when we know, despite how great our memories are they really do fail us more than we realize. Students also do not know how to deal with stress. They learn from the adults around them & we all know how many adults don't deal appropriately! Thankfully my discipline does cover how our brains work, learning, memory, motivation, stress & wellness but not all take psychology. We should be helping our students learn about healthy life choices, of many kinds and how to learn and deal with stress. If we don't low ACT scores will be the least of our problems with our young people! So stop worrying about what someone wears & worry and get motivated to work on real problems we have in our society!

Now is the time to throw the District 203 bums on the school board out. Throw out Susan Crotty and Jackie Romberg. Everyone else in town is going broke, losing their homes, yet the teachers keep on demanding more. Remember how they sneaked throw another pay increase extension on their contracts in 2007. They did it on purpose. Now is the time for the taxpayers to stand up.

Higgins, the test scores in 203 were just fine before the last gargantuan tax increase and you know they would be just fine today without the latest HUGE increase. And PUHLEASE don't give me that baloney about losing teachers cause we couldn't pay them a competitive salary. Right now teachers are BANGING down the doors at 203 trying like hell to get a job.

Thom you seem to struggle with just about everything except sucking up to the 203 teachers and administration.

What a fantasy land you live in where nothing this SD can do is wrong and everything they do is right... how shallow and deceitful is that? And you actually think an ACT of 25.2 is something to be proud of? Maybe if you are planning to head off to COD a 25 will get you in, but it sure isn't going to cut these kids any slack and open any doors at top colleges and universities. Even with state schools a score of 25 will only get you in if your grades and class rank are really good and considering the overall competition from kids with scores between 32 and 36 someone with a 25 is very likely going to wash out anyway.

If we want all of our kids to get a good education and to gain admission to a better college and to be able to graduate from college we need to have a focus on achieving ACT scores of at least 30 as a goal. Yep, that means all of these great teachers have some work cut out for them to bring the overall scores up 5 points. Well that is a challenge to them... let's see if this bunch of unionized government workers are up to the challenge... it's only our kids future that depends upon it.

Well, Thom the bright side for you at least is that all this sucking up might even get your kids a few improved grades here and there from all your loyal teacher union friends.

Redskin

If it makes you feel any better (worse?), all the Public School Districts in Chicago that post better scores do spend way, way, more than 203, so perhaps your right!

Education ain't cheap that's for sure, and I'm not saying we should be spending more, but seriously, how would you like to live next door in Lisle and be paying 14.5K instead of 10.25K per student, and with the kids scoring 3pt. lower on the ACT? My point is to cut 203 a little slack. I agree on the 204 teacher's union negotiation's it will be very interesting to see.

The taxes in 204 are higher because of all the new schools I believe. No comfort I know. If it makes you feel any better your taxes for both SD's shouldn't be going up next year as the CPI came in at .1%

1)A top hat? No more top hats in this day and age. Maybe next year he wears a rag and raps the state of the city message. Time for this Maya to be gangsta. Thats what we do in this day and age, dog. 2)Thom: wow, with that kind of performance, make my taxes go from $7000 per year to the schools to $10,000 per year for the schools and watch the scores really soar. (Sorry, these are not reasonable costs) The only good news about a bad economy is maybe, just maybe "the community" will think for once before increasing that sucking noise in their pocket that is the extraordinary expense of government education. The downside; few meaningful jobs for graduates. It is way, way past time for 203 to do with less. Funny how everyone has to economize, conserve and demonstrate geen behavior except schools. Its always "we need more money for schools"! I don't admire that go for broke thinking. Kind of why too many of us are now indeed... broke. We just could not say no to spending, spending, spending. Watching with interest the 204 negotiations with the teachers union. I'm confident the tax rate on my 204 property will remain at least 1.5% higher than the rate on my 203 property. By the time the negotiations are completed, the Brach Brodie lawsuit is resolved, the most magnificent 204 school is completed, and money is taxed to equip and staff it, it will have been spend, spend, spend.

Anonymous @4:08 pm

I really struggle with these kind of comments.

There isn't one public school district in the Chicago area that has higher, or the same, ACT scores that costs less. not one.

My latest fun fact is just next door in Lisle they spend 44% more than D203 but their ACT scores is 22.1 vs. 203's 25.2. And as they are a unit school district there can be no complaining that the cost comparison isn't valid. D203 does an excellent job educating our children at a reasonable cost.

Wow! I'm shocked & amazed this is all you have to comment on.

Personally, I miss men wearing hats! NO I'm not talking baseball hats! Ugh! I think we should bring back women's hats also! :-) They say the fashion always comes back so how come this hasn't come back?

The man has character, guts & knows how to have fun & not get sucked into the social norms it appears. I give him credit for that! He probably is happy & so many in life aren't & do not change so they can be. If more people just wore hats then he'd be in the norm, so start wearing some! I'll come wear my big hats! HA! Life is short people, sounds like you can't get into having fun! Or his fun is not your style of fun. What happened to allowing everyone to be free to do what they want, within the law of course. I wore green & red the first day of class a few weeks ago. Some no big deal, others looks, other told me I COULD NOT wear it now & it bothered them! WOW! Yes, I did it to discuss how does one define normal vs abnormal behavior. Of course then I also showed my Halloween socks! ;-) Still haven't gone in full Harley attire to see what they would do! HA! It is not like the guy is showing up naked or wearing winter clothes in the summer & vice versa. See this is one of the nuggets of wisdom you gain as you age...you don't care so much what others think about things like that. If someone does not like my hairstyle or clothes...oh well! I'm not telling them or forcing them to wear it. Its my (or his) life! You do realize someone may not like what you wear or do in your life right? Would you change? What will people not come to Naperville to shop or live because of it? Sounds like it is more your hangup than the mayor's!

Mayor Pradel is an awesome gentleman and I have nothing but respect for the man. It was great seeing him perform in the Naperville Park District production, "The Love For Three Oranges" this past Saturday.

I guess Mayor Pradel must be doing SOMETHING right if the only thing people can comment about is his attire.

Personally, I think the way he dresses is fine. The man has his own sense of style and who are we to judge?

Now is your chance voters to kick out the big tax and spenders in District 203. Kick out of office Susan Crotty and Jackie Romberg and DO NOT let in Dennison. Voters are sick and tired of high property taxes, no jobs and losing their homes. This current board passed their Taj Mahal plans and now we are stuck paying for it. Make this school board pay for it at the ballot box.

p.s. Don't vote for Duestch either, he's a multiple time loser.

I thought the Mayor was out looking for the groundhog ...

We only pay the mayor 20k a year last time I checked.

Do you guys expect him to shop at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Ave for $2000 Italian suits?

He is doing a decent job. Who cares how he dresses!

He is being frugal. If he can only get the rest of the city to be frugal like he is we may see our budget reduced and balanced

We can not afford to get the budget in any worse situation than it is currently in, by buying our city officials suits and ties. Let them wear what they want as long as they can reduce our taxes.

Home prices according to CNN were down 15.6% from last Dec. to this Dec. I am looking forward to a 15.6% reduction in my real estate tax bill.

Does anyone believe it will happen?

I will put money that my real estate taxes will go up before they come down no matter how much my house declines in value. Any one willing to bet otherwise?

@Anonymous on January 27, 2009 12:24 PM

I'm OK with the Mayor looking like the Monopoly man if he tones down the whole "Hey everybody I'm an announcer at a monster truck rally" gimmick he's got going for him. Whenever he says "Welcome tooooooo NAAAAAAAAPPPPPEEEEEERRRRRRVVVVVVIIIIIILLLLLLEEEEEE....!!!!!!!" I'm expecting a laser light show, fog machines, fireworks, and Big Foot jumping 20 feet over a line of old cars.

Now, if the mayor was actually welcoming people to a real monster truck rally, then his public speaking method would be entirely appropriate! Either way, I guess it doesn't really matter too much. The way the Naperville city government is set up, the city manager is the important person. The mayor is just a figurehead kind of like Pamela Anderson's character in the hit 1998 TV series, V.I.P..

In other news, I hope the construction on the stairways of the Jefferson St. parking garage (just east of Washington St.) still leaves the white painted rectangle on the wall of the north staircase just inside of the first floor exit. For the past year or so someone has been writing motivational graffiti in black sharpie marker there. Every once in a while it will get painted over, and in a few days a new phrase will appear. This mysterious graffiti artists writes things like "You are beautiful." and "Have a great day."

Good graffiti artists inspire people who look at their work. There was a REALLY amazing anti-war stencil graffiti someone put on the side of the defunct Golden Key now Endure It Sports building that vanished a few days later. "Have a great day" isn't thought provoking, but it has made me smile a few times coming down from the parking garage.

Recently some new street art has popped up around Naperville which hasn't been removed yet, someone pastes pieces of newspaper to various surfaces with a black flower painted on it. I'm surprised it has lasted as long as it has.

Can we get the City Council to pass a resolution that ask the Mayor to refrain from wearing a top hat and generally looking and acting like the town idiot while representing our city at official functions? I'm all for the Mayor bringing as much class and dignity to the office of Mayor and the city as possible... it's just that wearing a top hat in this day and age isn't a genuine or sincere way to demonstrate these traits.

If we need to give him an allowance so he can afford to buy a nice suit and tie I would be all for it!