Stephen,

My utmost sympathy to both you and your dog. While it seems like a lot of money, it is your money and you have a right to spend it on a precious dog you love that brought happiness to your life.

I believe your connection with your dog is indescribable. Dogs are such unconditional loving things.

Dogs have healing abilities. Special dogs are brought to Edward Hospital to build the morale of patients there. If people have high morale and are happy, it is believed they can fight disease better.

I hope we get good news on both you and your dog. Nothing but the best to both of you.

In the end I will probably spend between $25,000 to $30,000 to try and help Copper (a Vizsla) beat Lymphoma. Hes worth every penny. I know some people think I am crazy, but he is only six and my best friend. I don't have any kids or really any real friends besides him. We have spent countless hours hunting and fishing together. I know what he is thinking just by looking at him and he the same for me. We read each other like a book, a connection that is indescribable.

God sent Copper to me when I myself was very very sick. The doctors told me there was nothing I could do, but Copper brought joy, love, and thus renewal of hope into my life. With this to this day I am still beating my disease and now I owe it to Copper to help him beat his. Even if the odds are all against us.

- Stephen

Does anyone know how the dog is doing now? Hopefully he has been cured. In the picture I noticed right away that the dog looked sad and like it wasn't feeling well. Tail down etc. If you know dogs you can tell if they aren't feeling well.

Would love to know how he is.

To the one who does not value Monkeys...

http://www.snre.umich.edu/~dallan/nre220/outline8.htm

Just google & type in extinction & ripple or domino effect. Try to educate yourself more on how the balance of nature is at stake!

New book:

Made for Each Other: The Biology of the Human-Animal Bond by Meg Daley Olmert, Da Capo Press, 2009 states that Oxtocin is found similar to other social bonds with humans. It also reduces stress which is likely why pets are found to reduce stress. Increases antioxidant production...ya I won't look so old. They mention the past research of how pets keep people alive more than support from family & friends.

I may say I can't believe you or what are you thinking but I do not call people names! I have been the one that has been called one & the same as Chimpanzee suggesting what...a Schizophrenic's delusionary voices or perhaps DID? I have been the one called some stuck up royal princess. I have been called crazy. I don't call someone these things. I may say a person's "proof" is not logical but I don't call them a name from the get go or generalize the person so horribly. The only time I have said something that is close is in response to something someone called me first. For example, if they said I was disturbed, I may say they may be for making such a comment like that to a person or because they do not care if an animal dies or some other uncaring view.

Just quickly a few who have gone beyond just stating their opinion & that they disagree with another...

Anonymous 2/18 9:11..."spend it on your own neurosis first"

Keyboard Rambo 2/18 6:12 "But I seriously have to question the sanity of anyone who accrues any kind of unaffordable debt on outrageous vet bills."

Ken 2/18 11:48..."Just because I won't do something idiotic like spending thousands of dollars on an animal doesn't make me a bad pet owner....On the other hand, I would have the joy of putting a muzzle on you...

OWVY, I can't believe you compare the value of an animal to the value of a human being. With the exception of animals trained to help the disabled, their is no value to a pet except for emotional value. I like my pets, but am smart enough to know better than spending $25,000 on a dog. People who call their pets 'my baby' exhibit serious emotional problems"

Ken 2/19 9:30..."I shudder to think what you are teaching your students, but since my kids come home with their minds filled with some of the same tripe, your kind of teaching is common. Luckily, my kids get a firm dose of reality after you send them to fantasy land."

Ken 2/22 1:12 "Why is a firm grip on reality concerning to you?"

Anonymous 2/22 7:25..."Anyone who puts any more "value" in a dog than that would be far better off spending the $25,000 getting their own head examined."

Anonymous 2/24 6:49..."Maybe all of the stupid pet owners with so much discretionary money could charter a bus and leave with the chimps and the pit bulls?"

The Chimp 2/27 3:03...among many..."I wish you restored health one day."

Apparently some have not learned that they can differ in opinion & do not have to call them names or think the person is totally a bad person. We do know in psychology why this type of thinking occurs though. It is very easy to make the person out to be a totally horrible person when they disagree with us to make us feel more confident in our opinion. It is more difficult to believe that a person who is a good citizen, wonderful heart etc might disagree with us on some point. How could they? It may actually make me wonder if I am wrong in my opinion. Sad that some can't listen & say hmmm they may have a good point. This is what is uncalled for & so sad that some people do. Just respect the person to disagree. If you totally disagree with what someone believes state it nicely and if it is an opportunity where you can show proof then do so.

I agree...sad that someone comes in here & starts to just state that any living thing on this planet is not worth being here. It is very difficult for me to let someone like that go without responding though. I know it may not help, but to also let them go without a response is also reinforcing them to think society agrees with them. You have heard some on the posters say...no one else is posting they disagree so they agree with me. That is so illogical to think. People may not post even though they disagree for many reasons. As some said they ignore etc. Some find it so ridiculous they will not spend the time because they do believe they will not convince the person. And educator can't do that though. They know that each experience, good or bad unfortunately in some cases, does make some difference.

Anon 9:32 was me, Princess [Chimpanzee's sic] ANN E. Sorry about that, my bad.

OWVY--you never flame or attack on this blog? Let me go back and review different topics you spend hours on. Wait, it's Sunday, it's sunny and I'm leaving to do fun stuff.

Honestly, this was a very interesting topic about 50 posts up, but once hijacked became something to mock, in my opinion.

I thought the NPE asked all of you via rules of posting and also at times posting not to personally attack or call names etc. This is as bad a the teens chatting. One session I listened to this this weekend was on Cyber Bullying...how appropriate.

What is with you people! I asked someone to just let you know. Again...assumptions! They didn't want to post Anonymous, God knows how some of you complain on that & they did not wish to be identify in any other way.

OWVY, speaking about herself:

"OWVY was presenting at a conference this weekend...how you come up with all these assumptions thank God you are not in political office making decisions!"

Is this the "royal we", or "pluralis majestatis"?

Perhaps I really am Princess Ann E speaking among royalty!

OWVY was presenting at a conference this weekend...how you come up with all these assumptions thank God you are not in political office making decisions!

Interesting, Fed Up, how Chimpanzee and OWVY stopped bickering here after your suggestion.

Anne E - who knows - maybe they are the same person - two personalities fighting with each other. It's not like we have not seen that before.

Chimpanzee--When did I ever say I agree with OWVY? Go back and read my posts on this thread before it got hijacked and before you put words in my mouth.

Personally, I think Chimp and OWVY deserve each other, duke it out into the archive, kids.

Funny...I have the same opinion of you! Interesting how you assumed because only 1 person responded that that is the only person who agrees with me....now how many responded in agreement with you? That is called False Consensus. Go the the actual scientific literature & see how many. You knock An Inconvenient Truth...so then where is your data/proof that that information is wrong? You just say so huh. Ya, that will convince people. You don't even know me fully & you make that statement well then that says something about your bearings if you judge people like that. Show me the proof that the warming of oceans is not slowing the ocean conveyer...that underground shifts in the artic shelf are not dumping chunks of glaciers and rising the ocean. You think it is just minor rises, ok, where is the proof. Let me see the data or source you use. Show everyone...I may be responding but you would not convince others reading.

By One Who Values You on February 26, 2009 11:58 PM

The media says that scientist disagree but they in fact don't.

------------------------------------------------------------------

OWVU,

If you believe this statement you wrote and I beleive you believe it, I think you have some very loose bearings.

I find it fruitless to argue with a person with loose bearings.

Maybe the Moderator wants to dispute your statement with you. I have better things to do in my life than to argue with someone who believes scientists don't disagree.

The only person who seems to agree with you is Princess AnnE. Maybe you guys ought to go out for coffee and discuss how scientists agree on everything.

Best of luck to you Professor and to your students.

I wish you restored health one day. Nothing but the best to you.

OMG...what religion do you believe? I suppose you think then Hitler is God working through him & this war we are in etc.

I am not totally complaining about the media. It is watered down as it is not like a fully piece of research in a journal. It can't be, but it is not all the fact then so then people do not understand all. No, I love the media providing this means. I never complained about that. Be careful what you are suggesting.

The media says that scientist disagree but they in fact don't. Take a look at the stats in An Inconvenient Truth. He shows you all the publication numbers from Scientist & then what the popular press says. It isn't the first time though.

Can we change any of that...well it is clear you don't understand environmental science if you don't understand we can change those things. There was a huge change in the ozone hole when we changed our behaviors. Yes, hurricans & Tsunamis come from warming waters & we can make sure that does not happen by the behaviors we do. Many more forest are burned due to urbanization and careless campers or outright arsonists. When underneath waters warm then the artic shelf shifts and then the glacier falls in the ocean & then it melts raising waters which changes the ocean conveyer belt which results in warming waters, and thus...the hurricanes etc. If you think we should just spew garbage of chemicals & waste dumps etc you disrespect God's gift of a planet. More importantly why would God want us to destroy the planet. I don't know anyone who thinks that so I'm not sure where you got his idea...are you hearing God yourself? Now since the NPE is being so nice with us chatting on this here...why don't you just bring up this topic on the You Pick one & let others chirp in their opinions!

One Who Values You,

God is running this earth just fine. He know what He is doing.

He creates droughts through evaporation to limit over population of animals and plants. He causes forest fires with His lightning to limit forest growth. He has a plan and it has worked for 13 billion years.

You and Al Gore are interfering with His plan. You will not be able to alter it, so stop trying. Can anyone stop lighting or thunder? Can anyone stop rain? Can anyone stop a Tsunami? Can anyone stop a glacier from melting? Can anyone stop an earthquake? Can anyone stop a hurricane? Can anyone stop global warming or cooling?
Of course not! Only HE can and you are not HE, OWVU. You need to accept Him and stop playing GOD on this blogsite. You act like you know everything and you almost know NOTHING.

You accuse the media of distorting. It is you who are distoring by spewing your non-stop propaganda on a media sponsored blog site.

I am surprised you would attack the "popular" media on a platform they provide you free of charge in order to freely express your opinion uncensored and unedited.

And it is not the popular media who spins that scientists disagree. Scientists actually DISAGREE and the media simply reports. I am surprised you don't know this, Professor.

I am sure Moderator Chris would agree with me on the last point. The media is simply a messenger reporting what scientists discover and research. They don't fabricate what scientists say or don't say.

To Ann E.:

The "Chimp" has spoken! How dare you question The "Chimp"?

You just are a very ignorant individual on this subject. You need to state actual data...that is where Al Gore does have you. He has actual data & I hate to tell you but it is the popular media who spins that scientist disagree. The scientist all do agree, though it is happening even faster than they thought. I take it you have not watch An Inconvenient Truth since you bash it so much. No problem...go live say on the coast of FL. Don't worry we won't come get you when the ocean does come over you. You know my dad is a retired dentist & he remembers when he was a young dentist all the older dentist loudly whining that flouride was just a hoax.

Speaking of the Almighty & having faith...if you want to go that route...what does he say? God helps those who help themselves. Don't you remember the man who is in a flood & after many attempts to save his life he dies & complains to God & God says...I did help you...I sent you a car, boat, helicopter (in the form of emergency personnel) Ya, you sit & wait for God to help you. I'll take God's help in the form of knowlege and means with motivation to do so. I'll help God actually save his planet he actually gave to us. I may not be perfect but I do what I can and make more & more attempts with each day. If you do not recognize it even exists then how are you helping at all?

You definitely are not a scientist if you do not understand how EVAPORATION is causing such incredible droughts, how the ocean's conveyer belts slow down, warm up the oceans & the coral reefs have no ideal climate to stay alive, and thus the creature who live in them & those that live off them. Why jellyfish larger than humans are in larger & larger numbers. Try taking even a basic environmental science class. Start with the basics. If you do you may find that the earthquakes underneath the glaciars are actually part of the problem.

BTW...you also are totally neglecting the contributions chimpanzees provide in health research for humans since they are so closely similar to us.

By One Who Values You on February 25, 2009 10:25 PM
For the nonbelievers

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems like you are the non-believer who has more faith in a bunch of crazy scientists whose findings are disputed by another bunch of crazy scientists than the Almighty God. The government gives these scientist millions of dollars of our tax money in the form of grants and they come up with crazy theories so they can keep robbing Uncle Sam and us of more money. It is insanity to the highest degree.

Just have faith in the Almigthy and the ocean levels will be fine. Trust in Him as I trust in Him.

Since earth began oceans have risen and fallen. It is simply part of changing weather patterns that go both ways. The earth has been around for 13 billion years and it is just fine and will continue to be just fine. Suddenly in year 13,000,000,009 you want us to worry about the levels of the oceans. Give me a break. This is nothing to do with blatant mockery as her Highness Queen Ann states. This is you being a paranoid schizophrenic about non-issues because you have so much time on your hand. I have never met a professor with so much time on his hands. Maybe you should apply for one of these government grants and study paranoid schizophrenia.

I would be more worried about Russia launching a nuclear bomb because of a pyschopath general than the ocean rising a few inches. Who cares if it rises a few inches? Did you ever hear of EVAPORATION?

OMG OWVU.....................

Again, you are brainwashed by whatever you read OWVY. You believe anything you read. You need to exericse some critical thinking as you preach on a daily basis on this blog site.

You can find BS articles on science from both spectrums of any issue. These scientist can't even figure out what causes cancer and now they think they know the effect of a few melting glaciers on the vast 4 oceans and numerous seas.

I am not a scientist but I can tell you the effect of a few melting glaciers on the level of the oceans is very minimal.....inches at most.

Now if you need something to worry about, why don't you do some earthquake undersea studies and try to predict the next great Tsunami and how many metric meters of water it will wash on the shores. At least you can save some lives from that project....and maybe a chimpanzee or 2 and we can save the earth from ecological disaster.

Yes...that is why you are so disturbed. Why are you even here with all of this? Having fun yet? You are such a wonderful spirit!

OMG OWVY, did you not read the words I wrote to you? Can you not see when you are being egged on and can you not sense blatant mockery?

For the nonbelievers...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/1448539,w-global-warming-antarctica-glaciers-022509.article

You are very disturbed people...and I don't mean that in a fun way! You do know that abusing & killing animals when young is a sign of psychopaths...and you want to destroy whole animal groups...lovely!

Just think about how much more methane could be generated from the decomposing bodies of all those dead chimps and dogs to power our SUV's. Finally something useful to do with these so-called pets.

Anyone who thinks the ecological system would collapse because of the extinction of the last 500 wild champanzees is out of his or her mind.

Chimpanzees use to be in every corner of Africa and Asia. There are only pockets of them left here and there.

Where was the ecological damage to the thousands of areas where humans have taken over their domain and caused their extinction?

That is my proof that their extinction will have no significant impact on ecological forces that control this earth.

Even the Moderator does not believe there would be an impact on the whole ecological system. He is usually right.

One Who Values You probably does not realize when he built his house he screwed up the ecological system of the ants that inhabited the soil under his house. Maybe the worms too. He built his home and could give a damn about those ants and worms or disturbing ecological forces.

That facts indicate he talks the talk but can't walk the walk.

He reminds of Al Gore. He lives in a huge mansion, flies private jets, drives gas guzzelling SUVs and then complains about GLOBAL WARMING. The guys lost his screws in that cliffhanger of tads against Bush.

One Who Values You is the ultimate hypocrit. All he does is preaches and preaches on this Blog Site but does not practice what he preaches. I bet he is driving a huge gas guzzler.

Don't worry...I am ignoring him now. He wants to know what will happen to ecological systems he can ask Jane Goodall or someone himself. There is a balance & order to everything in life. Every Macrosystem & Microsystem. Each time you take a fraction of one side off it makes it a bit imbalanced. One Chimp kills he says get rid of all and that is why I tried to show how that does not make logical sense, because then you would have to get rid of other things which also kill or attack. This person has apparently not viewed any of the evidence. He is the one that brought up it is ok to do it so let him prove it won't screw things up...otherwise I'm not going to even bother taken him seriously. You don't post something like that initially without proof. There is more evidence it will. All scientist actually agree, it is the politicians who do not or did not, now they are realizing. They were the ones that actually red lined out the scientists reports before.

Chimp is just BHO and [friends} stirring the pot again, going off on his tangent, doesn't really believe what he is writing, he just wants your attention. Just ignore him, especially OWVU, just ignore him and try not to get so riled up, he will go away for the most part after this topic gets archived. Rest assured, however, he will pop back in at the most nonsensical of times.

Moderator Chris ,

I am on record as having stated I would have like to preserve every kind of animal in a zoo or sancturary. If you recall, I am on record as stating I wish we could have saved a few dinosaurs and had a humongous Dinosaur Zoo.

I also have a deep appreciation for animals but not animals that eat peoples' faces and eyes while they are ALIVE or chop off a limb of a child when they take a swim in the ocean. I also don't think we need Pit Bulls just as Anonymous said. They can have a temper tantrum at any time. When they bite, they just don't let go. They are nuts and need to be eliminated. They are probably man made through wierd breeding practices. They are bred to fight, bite and kill each other and humans.

Anyway, thanks for telling those doubters that the entire ecological system would not collapse if we lost a few evil species especially like poisonous snakes that can kill the largest human with a split second bite.

You and I seem more in agreement than disagreement. Maybe, you comments will get ONE WHO VALUES YOU to open his eyes to reality.

Moderator Chris,

I was kind of being serious but a little sarcastic at the same time. Good observation, Moderator.

This section is called how far would you go to SAVE A PET.

The Chimpanzee was a PET.

The owner did not go too far to save it after he attacked her friend.

As you may or may not know, she first beat him with a shovel to no avail. Then she stabbed him with an 18 inch butcher knife to no avail. Then she called 911 for 11 minutes begging for the cops to come with their guns and shoot him. I listened to that entire 11 minute 911 call. It was truly horrifying. He was eating her friends face and it took police 11 minutes to get there. I hope no one ever has to wait 11 minutes in Naperville while a Chimpanzee is eating the face of another human or loved one. Our taxes are very high and our police officers are very well paid so I expect them to be there in 3 minutes if a Chimpanzee is on the loose in town. And I hope the NPD has animal tranquilizer guns because I don't think a Chimp should be shot if he is not harming anyone at the moment. Just taken out of a home and put in a zoo or sanctuary. I hope Naperville does not allow Chimpanzees. I believe they allow snakes as pets since I see them on the Riverwalk all the time in the summer.

The owner of this Chimp pet came to her senses and realized this PET can not be SAVED. She called for ammunition about 100 times in her 11 minute call. She never asked they bring a traquilizer gun. She repeatedly called for shot guns and rifles. She was crying hysterically as she has lost total control of her pet of 14 years. This 911 tape is the most horrifying tape I have ever heard in my life. The link was on the NY POST which had made this its front page story for a few days.

So I feel I have been within the scope of the topic which is how far do you go to SAVE a PET. I did not know we were limited to dogs. If we are, I will not discuss other pets anymore.

While I really don't want Chimpanzees eliminated from their few wild habitats, I just really can't believe that so many of your bloggers really believe the ecological system will collapse if the 500 remaining Chimpanzees become extinct.

Let me ask you a question, Moderator Chris, since you seem to have a good head on your shoulders.

Do you think the ecological system of this earth would be disrupted in any SIGNIFICANT way if we lost the last few wild chimpanzees remaining in the wild? Do you think you and I would be effected in any SIGNIFICANT way?

Now, I agree with you this ecologicial stuff is off topic, but I did not bring the topic up and was just responding to a few of your bloggers. Feel free to ask the other bloggers why they got into the ecology on a SAVE the PET blog. They were really off topic. At least I was talking about a pet. Maybe they all work for Al Gore and are using you and your blog site to promote global warming...lol! I am glad you have a sense of humor, Moderator.

A chimp is a wild animal despite being the genetic closest match to humans. They are not fit for pet just as many dogs are not fit to be pets either. For that matter a lot of people aren't fit to be pet owners either.

And to top it off the chimp in the attack was on meds. While we can feel sorry for someone who has undergone being attacked by a wild animal we also have to have pity on people who are so stupid that they put themselves into such a dangerous situation. For the same reason there will be thousands of more pit bull attacks because there is no shortage of stupid humans who can't seem to learn anything from the misery other people have already gone thru in the already countless number of attacks from just this breed of dog.

Chimps exist in the wild in something like 21 African countries and over there people do not try to make them into pets... they respect them for what they are... wild animals. In fact, most Africans would think you were pretty crazy for wanting a chimp as a pet. In America if you have enough money you can but a chimp for a pet or waste $25,000 trying to prolong the life of your dog for a few more months. And we already know more than some pet owners are crazy.

Would the ecological balance be thrown out of synch if all of the pit bulls left the face of the earth at the same time? Not hardly and not much more than any other breed of dog or chimps for that matter.

Maybe all of the stupid pet owners with so much discretionary money could charter a bus and leave with the chimps and the pit bulls? Anyone want to take a side bet on who is left alive when that bus gets where it is going?

I stand by my assessment that not all animals are necessary to maintain the ecological balance on this planet.

Does anyone here really believe earth will collapse if the remaining 500 Chimpanzees on this planet suddenly die?

Maybe it is the books you guys have been reading which has confused you all.

Common Sense indicates we can live without Chimpanzees.

As a matter of fact I believe they are already extinct on 4 continents and there has been no ecological disaster.

AS I said One Who Values You, you talk the talk but can not walk the walk. Show me exactly what would happen to this earth if the remaining 500 Chimpanzees go extinct. Will Earth stop orbitting around the Sun? Will the moon disapper? Will the skies turn green? Will the oceans turn purple? Will we go hungry? Will fruit stop growing on trees?

I am sorry OWVY, but your education has taken away your COMMON SENSE and ability to think. You have been BRAINWASHED by the books you have read. Stop believing everything you read. Question what you read? Use analytical thinking. Think out of the box.

Now instead of always walking away from an argument, prove or show me what effect the loss of the last 500 Chimpanzees on earth will have on our ecology. The others who support you are welcome to answer this specific question.

And while you guys write, remember a poor lady sits in the Cleveland Clinic just having had both her hands amputated, her eyes pulled out and eaten by the Chimp after he ate her entire face and broke her jaw. Are any of you trolls candidates for a face transplant? If you could relate to her misery and tragedy, you would be wishing death on the enemy.....THE CHIMPANZEE!

It is absolutely amazing what gets said in these postings. Kill all the snakes, kill all the hyenas - kill all the Great White Sharks threatening to eat all of the people swimming in the oceans? Dinosaurs crushing families sleeping in their mansions in rural Kansas. Kill all the criminal animals who eat humans trying to show them kindness. (Is it ok for an animal to eat a person who was being mean to the animal?) Kill all the humans that kill? This is the internet and blogging at it's most hilariously ludicrous level.

Maybe the criminal animals are a part of a global conspiracy of anti-human terrorism.

Wow, yet again astonishing ignorance abounds on the Potluck blog.

Dinosaurs did not become extinct because humans killed them all, I'm not sure where you got that long impossible stretch of an idea. In fact, dinosaurs and humans didn't even exist on the planet at the same time.

Go log off the internet and read a few books, you troll.

Well I'm not even going to get into responding to that post because it is quite apparent how ignorant you are about ecology. It is apparent you do not educate yourself on the environment and how the oceans are changing. White Sharks...we could use them just to eat the incredibly huge Jelly Fish which are not being found due to the ocean being so rich in the foods they eat because of the oceans warming. Try to educate yourself about the environment. You can ask question & ask them for "proof" I have no problem with that. Denial may be a lovely state to live in for a while but eventually you will be the one denied of many things.

Huh What and One Who Values You,

You guys love spreading rumors. Ecological disaster??? Lol!!!
Dinosours became extinct and no ecological disaster developed. The human race was able to thrive and survive thanks to the extinction of the dinosour.

Gorillas and Chimpanzees are almost extinct except for zoos and there is no ecological disasters. White Sharks are 90% extinct due to all the fishing nets of the Japanese and Chinese.

Maybe in the past we needed the White Sharks to eat some fish to prevent too many fish from overwhelming the oceans. But we now have 6 billion people on earth and not 6 million and we have plenty of hungry people to eat the fish in the seas and oceans. We need less Sharks so we can have more food to eat. China only allows one baby per family and there is hardly enough fish to feed the 1.1 billion Chinese.

The extinction of the White Sharks which is happening will mean we will have more food for the hungry all over the world. We don't have to compete with White Sharks for our fish. And it also means we can enjoy the oceans without losing a limb or head. We don't have to worry about our kids being snatched by the devil in disguise.

Ecological disaster! Give me a break. Egological disaster and global warming are just figments of people's imagination.

I am all for saving a few Chimpanzees and White Sharks in zoos and acquariams so our children can experience them. I wish we could have had a huge size zoo and saved some of those 100 ton dinosarus. But hell if I want to run into one of those traveling on a rural road in Kansas or Oklahoma. They could step on a mansion and crush it and kill an entire family sleeping. I guess One Who Values You would love a dinosour to step on his home. Like I said OWVU seems like he thinks the real world is as safe as his keyboard. I would not want him teaching my children any CHILD SAFETY CLASSES....that is for sure.

And while we are on the subject, let us kill all poisonous snakes. I have heard of to many people being killed by these snakes in Arizona and New Mexico. A child deserves to go play outside without having a snake attack him or her.

Basically humans come first and we need to look out for each other.
Look at how the hyenas look out for each other. If they saw a human 10 of them will gang attack the human and eat him up alive until only bones are left. Do they have mercy on us? No! Why should we have mercy on them. I say shoot all the damn hyennas too. Egological disaster.....what a joke!

Anonymous...

As far as starving kids, ya that would be nice also but before we judge someone using it on their dogs you better make sure you are not buying Ipods, CDs, etc. What type of car does one drive? Should I also thus judge a human using it for their health & say hey that is only going to help 1 person and only MAYBE cure their cancer when I can feed so many children. Interesting to think about!

What a load of rubbish. "It is your money and you can do whatever you want with it" attitude is sick and disturbing. For all the good this $25,000 is doing it might as well go up in flames.

IF these people were truly compassionate they would put the dog down and, in the dog's memory that is so precious to them, send the $25,000 to feed some starving children in this world. If we are going to exhibit some compassion then lets exhibit some true compassion and lets start with our own species first.

There are hundreds of thousands of starving children on this planet. I hope these fools can sleep at night thinking about the foolish waste of money on a sick dog when there are starving children that this money could have been used to feed. Imagine Feed My Starving Children could have fed almost 150,000 people with this $25,000 and yet it is going to be squandered on one sick dog. Brilliant.

Thank you to the poster already pointing out that that poster is not realizing that if you get rid of White Sharks & Chimpanzees you will screw up the ecological system. It is already being screwed up due to the depletion of rain forests for urbanizing, draught, and for oceans warming. Ah animals do not know nor have the same laws of murder etc. While I would not want to be the woman...I would not have it as a pet then. You take the risk with any wild animal when you have it as a pet. Just like Roy got it from the Tiger. He took his chance. They are WILD animals & if you choice that behavior you run the risk. What is the saying (If you are old enough to remember) "Don't Screw with Mother Nature!"

No it is not "human or animal nature" if that was true then should a human just die & not use Chemo or get a heart bypass or take immunizations? Animals do not know they can have these modern technological & medical life saving advantages. Now I will grant you even for humans there comes a time when you might say the side effects are not worth the quality of time left but just fixing a whole in a heart etc. Why should they go die rather than fix it. No different there than humans.

Fed up...yes that is what I'm saying. Don't tell people what decision they should make. It is no different than when you become elderly and if you choose not to do Chemo or if you want to take very extensive measurs. No one should tell you or make choices for you unless you are willing to let others make choices for you.

I have owned a number of dogs over the years, some pure bred, some not. Some have been "rescue dogs". Some have been purchased from reputable, hobby breeders (I used the term hobby breeder to differentiate from pet stores or commercial breeders. Personally, I become emotionally invested in my pet, though probably not to the same degree that some others here have become.

Obviously three are some here that feel very deeply for their animals. Others, while they may enjoy having a pet, do not place the same emotional investment in those pets as some do. Having a strong emotional tie to a pet does not make you a better "owner" just as not having a lesser connection does not make you a irresponsible or uncaring person.

While I would not spend $25,000 to prolong the life of a pet, I also feel that decision, not matter what I think of it, is completely that of the individual owner, just as it is the owner's right to decide when to euthanize a pet. Having gone through that very difficult situation more than once, I realize how painful and emotional a decision it can be.

I do know that when the quality of my dog's life was such that it could no longer move with out great difficulty and was in pain, and there was no longer any way to remedy those issues, it was time to help it get beyond that pain. I wish I could have had the same option for others I have seen suffer.

I can't believe I have to point this out, but chimpanzees and sharks are not domesticated animals.

Furthermore, the bizarre call for extinction of a number of "criminal" species (whatever that means...) would mean ecological disaster.

OWVY,

It is called nature. Animals know when it is time to die. Natures way. They don't need, want, or ask for anyone to prolong their pain and suffering.

The only reason animals don't die is because stupid humans insert themselves into the natural equation where they have place intervening. Quality of life for a human does not equate to quality of life for animals.

It is a shame that people like you don't understand the difference and do not have the personal self control to stop intervening and just let nature take its course.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions from idiots like you.

When was the last time a human ate another human?

Even on drugs humans don't eat humans except for Jeffery Dahmer in Wisconsin. But they do kill other humans and I will hand you that one.

We should eliminate all humans that kill, all White Sharks that kill, and all Chimpanzees that kill. I am tired of all this killing going around. Enough is enough! I want to be able to swim on the beach knowing I will return with all 4 of my limbs. Don't you?

Male Chimpanzees will kill when they decide they want to be the BOSS.

This usually happens between 12-20 years old. The Chimpanzee got aggressive and she gave him Xanax only seconds before he flipped out. The medication had not taken effect. She called her girl friend because the Chimp was acting aggressive for no reason that she knew of....except that he may have felt it was time to be the boss. He disobeyed his boss even though she used a shovel to beat him up and later stabbed him. This is inexcusable behavior by any animal or human. Don't you agree ONE WHO VALUES YOU? Like I said, try to put yourself in that ladies place who lost her face, eyes and hands. If you were in her place, you would say let the Chimpanzees become extinct as I am saying. I just don't think you can relate to real time when you spend so much time bloggin in your life. You need to spend some time off these blog sites and experience reality instead of preaching and teaching us as if you are an EXPERT on all subjects.

The Chimp knew how to open doors. He even opened the policeman's car door and tried to kill the policeman. This is attempted pre-meditated murder.

Many other Chimps have exibited similar behavior.

Gorillas are much nicer and as you have stated are known to save humans.

Save the gorillas and get rid of the chimps. They should be classifed with monsters. Many monkeys are much more civilized than Chimpanzees.

OMG....but I'm not surprised at the ignorance of some. First, that chimpanzee may have been on drugs that has not been ruled out the lady who owned him is recanting now but she first said she gave him meds. Second, ya, like chimpanzees do this all the time...give me a break. How about Bintu the Gorilla who saved that boy...ah ha...! Just like a human kills someone so all humans are bad. You need to have a talk with Jane Goodall apparently who lived with them since 1960. So lets see lets get rid of everything that has done some horrible harm. Guess we should get rid of all people then too. What kind of thinking are you doing? They certainly are not humans but then again we are & look what we do! That is such illogical thinking.

One Who Values You,

Chimpanzees can take care of themselves and don't need our help. That chimpanzee made a head of lettuce out of that poor lady in Connecticut.

They just amputated both of her hands. He took her eyes out and ate them. He ate her whole face and part of her jaw bone.

While you don't want us comparing a Chimpanzees to a head of lettuce, that damn Chimpanzee ate that lady's head like it was a head of lettuce. It had no mercy on that lady who only bought him a teddy bear for a present to try to calm him down.

If the Chimpanzee made a head of lettuce out of your head, you would not have included Chimpanzee with cats, dogs and dolphins.

Chimpanzees are cruel and inhumane animals. They are killers. They are not better than White Sharks. Kill them all!!!!

I am all for White Sharks and Chimpanzees going the way of the dinosaurs....EXTINCTION! Time to take earth and the beaches back from the criminal animals who will eat humans for showing so much kindness. There is no tolerance on my part for these creatures. Enough is enough! Try to imagine yourself in the place of that poor and devastated lady in the Cleveland Clinic with no hands and face before you respond to my post.

Thank you!

Many have said that dogs just go under a tree or somewhere to die & we should let them. Why do they? Because they do not know what to do, they have no way to ask us to help them, they do not even know there is help for them. We know what to do, we can be there voice and we can help them. Many people in very poor countries also lie alone & die because they also do not know what to do, have no way to help themselves and may not even know there is help for them, but God entrusts us, those who are fortunate to have so many blessings to help those who are not as lucky as we. I wonder if I dog knew and could ask what he or she would do!

I thought of waiting & letting others just respond to this, but I'll just a say a bit. A person who thinks an animal, especially a cat, dog or even higher chimps, dolphins etc can be compaired to a head of lettuce just says quite frankly a great deal about you & demonstrates what intellect you have. Sick animals do not know about medicine and can not ask for it themselves nor pay. We can do that for them. Children of lower intellet do not have the ability to do so either but God entrusts them to us. The rest of our planet can not do so but God entrusts us to care of it. Elderly can not always take care of themselves & God entrusts them to us when their physical & intellectual ability does not allow them to do so themselves. And those who may have severe intellectual abililties, yes maybe a low a some other animal God also entrusts us to take care of them & not call them a head of lettuce!

Who cares if Ken values or cares for animals or not? That is not the point. All animals are lower life forms. Animals were put on earth to serve a purpose. Some form parts of the evolutionary food chain. Other animals only purpose is to be a source of food for man. Others yet, like dogs can serve multiple purposes... food, companionship, etc.

A farmer would never spend $25,000 on vet fees for a chicken, a cow, a steer, a bull , a horse, a pig, a lamb, etc., etc. If any animal is that sick put it down. Period. If you still need companionship there are tons of animal shelters and breeders with plenty of dogs ready to step in and serve the purpose. Dogs are a just another commercial crop just like christmas trees, farm raised catfish, and a head of lettuce.

Anyone who puts any more "value" in a dog than that would be far better off spending the $25,000 getting their own head examined. Even a sick animal knows when it is time to die. It is a shame to see that some animals are owned by people who have less intelligence that their own animals.

Last post of mine I meant:

"now" getting clearer!

Sorry!

Ken...this is not getting clearer! You apparently do not care for animals. They were there just to protect but you do not benefit from any of the other wonderful gifts they have to give. I totally understand your viewpoint now. I don't believe someone who does not care for animals as much as others do should make an opinion then. It would be like someone who does not like kids that much telling those parents who do how to deal with their kids. Also, I'm sorry but the information in the popular press is not like research journals an the depth graduate or medical courses go into. You are not going to have doctors talking about glutamate, synaptic connections etc with parents coming in discussing Autism or similiar ideas on cholesterol or the human-pet bond info. Have you taken graduate courses to know how they are different. I'm not saying you would not have the ability at all but if you think what is out in the popular press is the same then you totally do not understand. Google does have some info but journal articles are not usually available on google. You usually have to have a subscription to get into JAMA or the APA journal articles. Now the APA for example will have articles for general population to read on say aggression or any topic but it is not going to have the depth, get into what level of statistical significance and so forth.

Who backed away from ASPCA? And who was "threatening you". I just simply said I can contact them concerning it. You don't even have any idea if I have contacted them. That is funny to me. I can still report here what they said.

What you call a "firm grip on reality" is another person's lack of attachment to another of God's living things. It is just your viewpoint. Just like one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. Depends what side of the coin you see.

Mimi, I got the dog for one reason. When I worked, I worked many nights, and I wanted a large dog, good with kids, that would bark if anyone tried to enter the house or threatened the kids when I was not around. Quite frankly, once the kids leave, I doubt I will remain a dog owner. If I can get the wife to give up cats at the same time, I will be happy.

OWVY, why should you be shocked? The Trib has run many articles on what you took classes on. I have read the same data in other magazines I get. I'm sure that I could have an in depth conversation with you about the subject without having taken a class on it. I know that I can have an in depth discussion with my doctors about cholesterol, exercise, and other matters without having gotten a medical degree. One just has to be able to read and understand materials readily available on any subject. Google makes this much easier.

The fact that you don't know who I am is what made your threat empty. Even if you did, the ASPCA could do nothing. It was a laughable threat, made even more so by your attempt to back away from it.

My attitude about animals being easily replaced has been explained by others here that grew up in farmland. Most people realize that pets are just animals, they have a shorter life cycle, and expensive operations for them are foolish. Why is a firm grip on reality concerning to you?

Ken...

Wow...excuse me...but research does eventually get in a watered down version in popular press. You apparently do not understand that & I'm shocked by that. Heck, even medical information about cholesterol, exercise etc gets into popular press but that does not mean doctors & nurses do not learn about the full studies in medical school. I really can't believe you don't undertstand that. Wow!

I have no doubt you got it xrayed & discussed with your vet. I never stated you didn't. Empty threat? Why? I can asked them. Do I know your last name for them to come get you. No, never claimed I'd send them after you. Claimed I could ask & then come back & say. And I intend to. What is wrong wit that. And that does not mean it is an empty threat.

The dog being 9 that makes perfect sense, but that would not be the question I'm posing. What if it was much younger? Although I would say if it is 9 and in excellent health otherwise why not see if someone else is willing to care for him. My black lab lived until 14 yrs old. I do totally understand if you have a problem with your income you can't do 25K...point is why not other options & then do not get another pet until you can take care of it. And your attitude about it just being easily replaced is quite concerning.

Ken,

My suggestion is that even if your situation were to change, don't get another dog. You say that "they are just animals and can easily be replaced", then why have one? It's obvious that they aren't an important part of your life so why would you want one? Doesn't make much sense to me.

OWVY, I almost don't know where to start.

First, everything you apparently learned in a class credited towards your graduate degree has been covered in newspaper articles that took me about an hour to read...combined. I wonder if I can get college credits for learning the same thing you did in a fraction of the time you spent. Did you take the class to get your veterinary license? Unless you did, the rest of your argument about doctors, cops, etc. fails.

Second, I had the dog examined and x-rayed, discussed it with my vet, and took the appropriate action for now. Your empty threat about contacting the ASPCA is just that, an empty threat.

Third, one of my children has type 1 diabetes. If the dog got that, or just about anything else you mentioned, I would look at the cost and make my decision based on that. Most cases, the dog goes to pet heaven. A child with diabetes and a dog with diabetes, or any other injury, are not comparable. That type of argument is where you seem to have no common sense. It's an animal, not a human. By the way, one of my BIL's dog was diagnosed with diabetes and the dog went to pet heaven because of the cost and level of care required. He and his family made a rational decision based on facts, not emotion.

Last, but not least, the dog is almost 9 years old. Times change, and if the dog were to die, we would not get another one until our situation changed. Even if a catastrophic illness had not affected our income, I still would not spend a couple of thousand on fixing a dog. As I have noted before, they are just animals, and easily replaced.

BTW Ken...anyone who is limping there is a reason! If you have any pain that should not be tolerated. And walking on something that is producing pain will just get worse. If you did not bring in your child for limping after a certain amount of time to just see if it will heal..just a bump or bruise idea...and it continues to get worse that I believe would be neglect. I don't believe it would be any different for a pet. I suppose we can ask the ASPCA. I just may do that.

Anonymous...about lucky in America vs Korea...

Using that rational people should not want to strive to make their health better because they should be just lucky they do not live in Siberia or Rwanda? What is that? If anything being in America since you have the wonderful opportunities you should make use of them IF you can and no one should tell you what you should & shouldn't spend you money on. I may think it is stupid to spend money on gold plated sink like some rich people may have but it is not my money. Yes, I could think of all the other things that money can be spent on which I may value more but someone else may disagree with me. Maybe I think they can build a park & others are like we have too many parks already we need new roads & someone else things we can survive with the roads we need more money to help domestically abused victims and others feel it should go towards Parkison's research and on & on. I may not feel a teen needs to have their parents buy them a car (much less a 25K one) but others may say to me well you're 11 yr old does not need a cell phone or an expensive IPod or coach purse etc. People earn their money & they can choose how they want to spend it, with the exception of course of illegal activity of course. Some men may not want to spend it on a dog but they spend it on alcohol, gambling & in NV a little time with a woman. Some women may not spend it on a dog but spend it on getting their nails done, a new pair of shoes, expensive perfume etc. If you are as Ken said struggling to put a roof over your children's head and get them food then it may not make sense, though if you are struggling that much I really wonder about your reasoning of getting a pet in a first place. If you are paying for even vet bills for yearly exams, shots, food etc that could be money going towards paying your bills. If you are not worried about paying bills & can provide your family with "wants" and not just making sure they have everything they "need" then they can spend their money the way they want. Otherwise...people then have the right to tell you you should not be buying a playstation or boat or whatever that you should donate to charity instead.

First off that dog should be glad it was born in America and got as many good years of life as it did.

Had it been born in Korea instead it would have been dinner a long time ago!

Ken...

I suppose also the Human-Pet Bond courses which go through the research on how animals/pets lower blood pressure etc & are wonderful methods for helping the elderly & children & others who will not speak anymore or show emotions etc is a total waste of time. How horse therapy is wonderful for children with Cerebal Palsy is no good. How pets reduce stress...this would be a waste of time for people, especially those in extremely stressful occupations like ER doc, police officers etc. How people who are severely depressed and credit the only reason they did not committ suicide is due to their pet is not a good thing huh. Ya, I guess I would rather "be weak" in your mind than to not take the class & think like you.

Ken...

So if your pet had diabetes or a hyperthyroid or something like this and though the cost for meds is smaller per month it certainly does ad up over time would you not take care of it? If you dog had a whole in its heart, you find out when they are less than a year old, the hole can be repaired & assure many years of life though it is quite costly would you not do the surgery but let him slowly go until he was in pain & then put him down? If you dog gets a simple break in his leg would you not get it set?

Is this for you about how much is too much money to spend? Is the line not the right of the individual person to determine based on many factors, their combined income, pet's factors, etc. I mean just because you could not afford 2K does not mean others could not.

Ken...

Just because you call someone "My sweetie" does not mean you put them on the same terms as a human. I call my lover my sweetie, I call my niece "my sweetie" but even then I do not put them equal in love or feel the exact same way about them. Heck, waitresses & retail places may call me "sweetie" but somehow I don't think they put me on the same level as their lover or their family members. This is apparently what you do not understand. I NEVER suggested in my post that by calling them a term of endearment you have the same love for them as a human being or any individual human being. You may not call your car a Term of endearment but many do & many do spend more time & care on their cars than their personal relationships. An animal is not a thing & that is my point. It is a living breathing entity which is much more intelligent than a car, a tree etc, depending on the species. It can experience emotions & can be conscious of the world around him/her, again depending on the species.

You state you would not spend the money & let the pet limp. Some are clothing & putting a roof over their heads & have all the perks, ipods etc, so why tell them they can't spend the money on a pet if they can afford it. If you can't that is fine, though I wonder, even if the pet is not in pain if it is grinding the bone to eventually wear down is that not neglecting their health. In fact, how can you tell right away. Animals can hide their pain until it gets extremely bad. I'll have to ask my vet & friend in animal control.

And a pet-human bond class is not a weak class. The rigor of the class & point of the class is what makes the difference. So all vets who take the class have taken a weak class? If an officer takes a class on dealing with emotions of people that is a weak class? If a doctor takes a class on caring emotionally for their patients is that a weak class? And to base that on what I teach and how I teach to make a generalize statement like that also does not show much critical thought. You have very quick stereotypic thinking and I worry more for your kids about that.

Mimi, my dog has a leg problem that causes her to occasionally limp. The vet wants $2000 to fix her. I don't have $2000 to fix her, so she limps. If she seems to be in constant pain at a later date in time, I will have her put to sleep. Keeping my kids fed and clothed, with a roof over their head is more important to me than an animal, even if it is one that has been with us for eight years. You might not consider this well taken care of when it comes to a pet, but I feel as long as she doesn't feel pain, it's okay. She seems fine with it too.

Ken,

I guess I should have explained my comment about you as a dog owner better. What if your dog had a luxating patella that could easily be fixed for $1,500.00, nothing else is wrong with your dog. Let's say your dog is 5 years old and has an average life span of 10 to 12 years. Do you pay for the surgery or put an otherwise totally healthy dog to sleep because a new one would cost the same amount or maybe even a little less?

What I'm trying to say is that your statement was pretty broad and I'd hate to be your dog if you were willing to euthanize when a good outcome is highly probable, and one not costing tens of thousands of dollars.

________________________

Now, why is it ok to use a dog for experimental purposes but not ok to try and treat the dog with those same treatments that have been proven to work? I guess to some of you it's ok to let those dogs suffer for the betterment of man but not ok to try and use those same treatments save a pets life?

We all have different feelings about our pets, that much is obvious.

OWVY, I had emotional attachment to my first car, and my fast car, but both are in gone because they needed to much work. I never personified either car, called them my baby, or considered them one of the family. One who is in control of their emotions know when to let go.

When I call someone my baby, sweetie, or honey, it is because they are. I would never put my pet on par with a human, or address them with the same terms of endearment I use with real human beings. While my mother-in-law was like my second mom, and some of my brother-in-laws are like brothers, I would never consider an animal to be one of my children.

Just because you took a class about the human pet bond does not mean you have no problem; it just means you took easy classes to get your graduate degree. I shudder to think what you are teaching your students, but since my kids come home with their minds filled with some of the same tripe, your kind of teaching is common. Luckily, my kids get a firm dose of reality after you send them to fantasy land.

Oh give me a break people...do you think when people say "I'm there mommy" they mean literally they pushed that puppy...sorry I know that was bad but. You know you adopt children too. People say, "She's my 2nd mom", "He's like a brother to me" do you know have relationships in your life like that? How sad! Try to experience the full spectrum of love in relationships. And give me a break...here is another!!! How many men (at least, maybe women also) call their cars "My sweetie", "My Baby" and those are not even alive. To call another living thing a term of endearment is a wonderful thing not a bad thing.

Ken...Boy are you the one that might need some counseling here to show you how you contradicted yourself.

"...their is no value to a pet except for emotional value." What do you think you just said here? That is what I am stating. "My baby" is an emotion...do you not understand that? When you call someone or your pet "My baby", "My Sweetie" "Honey" that is an emotion. If you do not understand that then I really think you have some serious issues. Pets provide that emotional bond. And my dear I have taken graduate classes in the pet-human bond connection so I assure you I have am not the one who has some problem here. I did say if the pet was in pain then it does not make sense. Those of you who state the money could go to charity etc. They may be donating to charity already. And someone said get a car, so spend 25K on a car instead of charity but you can't spend it on a pet rather than charity...ya that makes a lot of sense. What one spends there money on is up to the person. What if you spent your money on some trip & someone said you should spend that money on charity instead of that. Perhaps boats, and other toys?

Susan, you're not "Cody's Mom", unless there was some kind of genetic miracle that occurred. You're his owner. You didn't give birth to him. That sort of bizarre delusion is exactly the kind of thing that pet owners like myself hate to see, and gives us all a bad name.

Kudos to you, Ken, I'm in complete agreeance with your last comment. A pet is a pet, it's not a person.

Whereas I completely understand how much a family might love and care very much for a pet, having had three dogs in my lifetime, I wonder how much of that $25K would have been deeply appreciated at Our Children's Homestead in Naperville, instead, assisting the foster children there...human children.

When one of our dogs got ill and their quality of life was poor, we put him to sleep...not through extensive medical treatments to selfishly prolong his life for our benefit of having him around a few extra days or months. It's just cruel, guys, there's no justification for it.

Mimi wrote:
"Thank God I'm not Ken's pet!
This is a question that can only be answered by each individual pet owner, there is no right or wrong answer."

No right or wrong answer, but you clearly indicate mine is wrong. Luckily for me and my well taken care of pets, judgmental zealots like you don't control the pet market. Just because I won't do something idiotic like spending thousands of dollars on an animal doesn't make me a bad pet owner. I thank God you are not my pet too, as you would be one of those dogs that bark at nothing day and night. On the other hand, I would have the joy of putting a muzzle on you...

OWVY, I can't believe you compare the value of an animal to the value of a human being. With the exception of animals trained to help the disabled, their is no value to a pet except for emotional value. I like my pets, but am smart enough to know better than spending $25,000 on a dog. People who call their pets 'my baby' exhibit serious emotional problems.

A pet is not comparable to a human, and anyone who thinks so has a severe problem, which is exhibited by many of the comments here.

I love my dog and would spend many times what it cost me to buy it or buy a new dog. Love is not measured in dollars and cents last time I checked.

Not all vets are money hungry....some are. If you find a caring vet he will not charge you an arm and a leg for the treatment of your pet.

Since my dog does not bite, I felt no need to give it rabies shots especially after a shot killed my rabbit....no doubt about that.

Vaccinations have harmful and devastating side effects many times. Let nature rule as it has ruled for millions of years.

Ken & others...

First, what is the value of a pet? Is it only what you paid for it? So it is only worth 19.99 for the rabbit? Value is determined by many other things. Why is it that say even a painting may be valued at 1M because that is what most people would pay, but the person would not sell it because to them it is valued much more...maybe even as we say "priceless" because of the meaning it has. Is it what we have invested in them? Of course in a world where we try to even place a value on how much a marriage is worth I'm not surprised some people think you can put a value on everything easily. I wonder what you would be valued Ken to others? Lets see should we go by what it cost for labor & deliver for you like purchasing the pet, or the value of your life, the love you have given, those you may have influenced in positive ways, how much someone, at least one person though add up all, loves you. There are some pets that should be valued hire than some spouses the way the spouse treat them is so much worse than the pet. It is so sad but true.

It is amazing to me also that we can so easily understand to put a pet out of their pain but we can't do that for a human. I know a touchy topic but as someone said, we are conscious of life and death and understand what this all means.

When people treat animals as "things" rather than loving spirits we can make a decisions to "dispose" of them very easily...just like a car. And pets provide us with unconditional love, for the most part (ha) and boy is that hard to find in humans at times. Those pets put up with us, not to mention know all our secrets :-) & that alone is worth fighting for them. Yes, that is a reason to put them out of them pain, but if they are not in pain then why not continue care if you have the means to help them. I think many would if they had the means & that is why I'm so glad they have pet insurance now. I will definitely get that for any of my future babies.

Also, as far as age, what is 1 yr worth? If my baby was not in pain, I'd take 1 day more. I'd fight for one day more also for my child or my love. There are some chemos that do not cause pain/side effects in animals & humans. I have a colleague which is going to be taking chemo in pill form & she will not lose her hair, no pain etc.

My personal opinion is I'd rather spend the 25K on a pet than a car. I don't need a brand new car. It gets me from here to there. Those who are into what kind of car you have, have their priorities screwed up. Yes, there are a lot of pets in shelters, but what if someone said that to you about your child....oh you can always just have another baby! How ridiculous. You can always find another husband to love & marry. Love is priceless & I just can't see these wonderful people who are willing to spend that amount of money on their pet because they love him so much, allowing it to be a painful experience for him. That just doesn't make sense. I'm thrilled you are trying to get information out there to correct people's misperceptions of your baby's condition. These pets are what keep us sane in this crazy world. And thank God or we would have an even crazier world. The research is out there on how pets reduce blood pressure & make us happier for all of us & especially those who are ill or elderly. What a gift God has given us in them.

Let's not forget that humans talk and can express their wishes. Pets don't have this same ability and instead of the pet being able to make the same decision they would in the wild a human is imposing their value judgement upon the pet.

In many of these extreme cases the humans have more trouble letting the pet go than the other way around, but then again the pet isn't being given a choice and how long this can go on is directly proportional to how deep the owners pockets happen to be. As to how it feels or wishes to be treated the last time I checked pets don't talk so again it is a human taking their best guess at what the pet may or may not be thinking or feeling. Want to take a chance that you might just be wrong?

As in most things Naperville there are those who have more disposable income than others. Lots of money does not always equate to lots of good sense. Being humane does not include prolonging the pain and suffering of lower life forms which can not protest what is being done to them. Being kind to animals includes knowing when it is time to end the pain and suffering.

Advances in science and technology has resulted in modern day miracles. If you have enough money there is someone out there who would be willing to clone the dog for you and give you a carbon copy. Just because God has given man the ability to do a lot of the things we have learned does not mean that actually doing some of these things is right. Just because we can doesn't mean we should. A compassionate person understands the difference.

Put me down as another person who grew up on a farm and has a completely different outlook on pets and animals compared to most people in Naperville. I have a very similar background to Chris with a herd of barn cats and a few dogs on our farm. They came and went, and that's really all there was to it. It's too bad programs like 4H and Future Farmers of America aren't more prevalent around here anymore now that we've traded farm fields for golf courses... but if you want an excellent program to get your kids involved in, look no further than either 4H or FFA.

It really gives you a new perspective on things- Not only in appreciating where the food on your table comes from, but also makes you realize that while the family dog might be adorable, at the end of the day it's still an animal... domesticated to serve its purpose. This observation isn't cruel, or cold hearted, it's just a fact of life suburbanites choose to ignore.

If you have more money than you know what to do with and want to blow $25k making your dog suffer through chemotherapy, I guess that's your decision... But I seriously have to question the sanity of anyone who accrues any kind of unaffordable debt on outrageous vet bills. With animal shelters at capacity killing excess pets on a daily basis, and worthwhile charities in need of money, is spending tens of thousands of dollars to offset the grief of losing your dog for a few more weeks/months/years really the best way to go?

I have my doubts.

By Anonymous on February 18, 2009 2:06 PM

If any treatment for a pet of mine gets much above the cost of replacing it, the pet goes to pet heaven.

Truly a welcome relief for those pets in homes with these types of owners.

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Very true, but I'd take it one step further and say people that feel that way shouldn't have one. But, this was also said by someone who would buy from a pet store.

If any treatment for a pet of mine gets much above the cost of replacing it, the pet goes to pet heaven.

Truly a welcome relief for those pets in homes with these types of owners.

Thank God I'm not Ken's pet!

This is a question that can only be answered by each individual pet owner, there is no right or wrong answer. For me, I'd do whatever I could financially. People shouldn't be chastised for spending money on a sick pet; for many are considered family members, not just "property".

I hope that Cody has many more years of good health and happiness with his loving family!

And to those that made comments about vaccinations....they are essential to your pets health. Don't forget, if your dog bites someone and you can't come up with a valid rabies certificate your dog will be quarantined and you'll be footing the bill.

To Anne E. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, when I said to keep your comments to yourself. I was referencing the ridiculous comment about us buying someone a car instead or spending the money to treat our own neuroses. I thought those were unnecessary. Of course, anyone is entitled to express their opinion, differing or otherwise.

Readers were asked what our opinion was on this blog topic. I gave my opinion, which of course would include a financial ramification opinion, while giving sympathy to the dog owner's family. Asking us to keep our opinions to ourselves is out of line.

Chemotherapy in pets is not always without painful consequences. Extending a life ridden with cancer is not always without painful consequences. Once again, my sympathy.

I've read all of the posts on here and my first reaction was to thank those for their well wishes and ignore those who thought it appropriate to comment on how someone choses to spend their own money. However, I decided to comment briefly just to get certain facts out there as there are obviously many, many misinformed individuals and misconceptions about chemotherapy, BMT, etc. First of all, chemotherapy in dogs, doesn't not have the same side effects as in humans. In fact, Cody with the exception of a two occassions, never showed any negative signs from six months of chemo. The Bone Marrow Transplant, is not a painful process, has been done in humans (thanks to 25 years of perfecting on canines) for many years and the only symptom is being a little cold during the process so a warm blanket is placed on the dog.

We went public with this information to try and raise awareness to those animal owners who wanted more information and get the facts out there. This is not a money issue as it is no ones business but our own as to how we spend our money. And let me just add, to the individuals ridiculous enough to suggest we buy them a car or think we are neurotic or crazy for wanting to take care of a sick pet (which he for the most part has been perfectly normal) keep your comments to yourself as they are not helpful nor kind.

I know what it's like to have a Golden with cancer. We had a wonderful, sweet 9-year old that got cancer in the sinuses. The local vet wanted me to spend $1000. just for tests. I wanted a second opinion, so I went to a recommended vet in Crest Hill. He told me the honest truth. He could go in with a scope, but it would be impossible to remove. We could do chemo treatments for several thousand, but it more than likely wouldn't work. As much as we loved our dog, it is a dog-older dog at that, we decided that money would be better off paying for our kids college, or feeding starving children around the world, or helping homeless people. She lived several months pretty happy and normal until the nose bleeds got so bad and she was choking on her food trying to swallow. We knew one morning when we woke up that it was time to say good-bye. We took her to the vet and he peacefully put her "to sleep". No suffering, no horrible surgeries, no chemo that would make her miserable. A year and a half later we got a new puppy. She brings us a lot of joy and happiness.

$25K? Are you kidding me? Put the dog down and move on. Pets that sick don't make good pets anyway. What did the dog get a lawyer and demand advance directives?

Anyone who enjoys caring for a sick pet would be better off spending the money to treat their own neurosis first.

This is probably the most selfish and wasteful thing a human being could do. Prolonging a pet's pain and suffering at great financial expense seems like a no-win situation to me on either end.

Next time someone wants to spend $25K+ on medical treatments for a pet, I encourage you to put the pet down, buy a new one, and use the leftover money to buy me a new car. I will be happy for far longer than the pet would live with the treatments.

Pet owners are wonderful caring people who share their lives with loving creatures... we all do what we need to do ~ some will opt for medicines, others will go with raw food diets. Just as some people only eat veggies and others only meats but trying to judge another person will help no one. I have been to many vets and listened to their words and then made my own decisions. what i have noticed in the past 5 years, is just because we can accomplish something doesn't mean it should be done. i think sometimes the 'task' of accomplishment overrides good sense. my grandfather was a doctor who taught me to always question what advise doctors give, he use to say, they don't know much more than we do!

"A dog that runs free on the farm will take itself away when hurt or sick to finish things, as that's what they understand."

Recently my neighbors 17 year old dog who is deaf and has arthritis ran away. A 3 hour search by many neighbors was futile. On the way home my dog found the missing dog under an evergreen tree hiding about a block away.

His owner suspected he left to die. His owner wanted him to die in his home and not under an evergreen tree in the cold and rain.

Anyway, my dog and myself, took the dog back to its owner. It is six months later and the dog is now 18. He seems happy, the owner loves him, but I guess the dog is in some kind of pain and possibly not happy about not being allowed to die peacefully and feely.

Sometimes, I wonder if we should have let the dog die since I think that is what the dog wanted. But the owner did not want him to die. Is the owner keeping this dog alive for selfish reasons? I don't know. But if it was my dog, I would also keep it alive for as long as I could. A dog has one life just like a human only has one life. We all experience pain in life and it is part of living. There is no guarantee that that there is a Doggie Heaven. This could be IT. I hope there is for the sake of our pets. I hope there is an Animal Heaven for the sake of all animals including the Bambis' killed by the tigers.

I have not checked with the dog owner lately but maybe he is giving him a higher dosage of pain killers to deal with the arthritis. Anyway, I hope the dog celebrates its 20th birthday and my dog is invited to the party.

I lost my 11 year old Brittany Spaniel last June 25, from an auto-immune disease that she battled for 7 months. So many medications, and in the end, a blood transfusion, but they didn't work. I had to have her put to sleep because she couldn't go on. I held her as the vet put her to sleep forever, I felt her heart stop. I still cry over her, but I know she was suffering, and I didn't want her to suffer anymore. I also know it was me that didnt want to let go. Abbey was ready to go. I did spend alot of money for her care, that I wouldn't change, although I would get pet insurance next time. I could never tell anyone to, or not to spend money to have their pet cared for. Its all individual choices.

I had a rabbit that disappeared for 3 days and came back with a minor limp. The wife insisted I take him to the vet fearing a wild animal may have bit him. The vet gave him a few shots after thorough examination.

Within hours his neck became titled. We took him to another vet. He put him on oxygen and was charging us 5 dollars a minute or some crazy amount for the oxygen while he was attempting to diagnose and heal him.

I reminded the vet that I only paid $19.99 for the rabbit. He said it does not matter what you pay, as far as his fees are concerned. He charges the same for a horse, dog, or rabbit.

To make a long story short the first vet charged 260 dollars and the second vet charged 350 dollars and the rabbit was finally put to sleep at the vet's office Another 25 dollars was charged by the second vet for disposal. The first vet agreed to buy us a new rabbit but would not refund the 260 dollars even though his shot killed our rabbit. We told her we were not interested.

I think the rabbit would have been just fine if we never visited any vet. His limp had healed before he died. But that shot the first vet gave him killed him and made his neck permanently crooked.

At least I drew the line at $635 dollars. The second vet stated the chance of healing the rabbit was small to nil yet had him on oxygen.

Anyway, I bought a dog for a few hundred dollars and it has been healthy for 5 years. I turn down all shot offered by the vet and just give the dog worm and flea medicine. No more shots for my pets after one killed my beloved rabbit.

The rabbit also caused about 1200 dollars of damage to the woodwork in the house and snapped phone and computer wires when he got away. Would not recommend a rabbit as a pet even though they are adorable. Squirrels make much better pets than rabbits even though it is like having a 3 ring circus in your home. Finally, had to release them to the wild and they made the transition very successfully.

Mark F--yes, exactly. Perhaps my comment failed to communicate the pain and suffering per number of years left ratio. It's much different with a child or even adult that may have many many years left. It's much different with us, with family members that know and recognize the possible loss. This isn't how it is in a dog's mind, they are joyfully in the present. They also don't understand that pain can end and heal. A dog that runs free on the farm will take itself away when hurt or sick to finish things, as that's what they understand. That's how I will try to make the choice for my dog, not for me but for my dog. It's different with animals, in my opinion, as they don't realize they are in a bad way and they don't realize they will miss their owners as they are leaving us. My complete sympathy to this family and they do have a right to do what they think is right, of course. In my case, I would try to do whatever I could to not humanize the dog and impose my feelings on an animal that may suffer longer because of what I want. Believe me, when my boxer must go, even though I do have a farm background, it will be very difficult, as it has been with every pet I've had.

The only comment I have for many posting in favor of this treatment is you must never have endured chemotherapy much less a bone marrow transplant as you would not wish it on your worst enemy! This dogs last days will be spent in pain.

I'd like to express my sympathy for and admiration of the McGraths. I fear they may face some criticism about their decision to save their dog at any cost, but I wanted them to know that most pet owners understand that your dog or cat is a member of the family. As such, they are entitled to the best care that you can provide. Exactly how far a family is able or willing to go is a personal decision, but never one to be taken lightly. The McGraths choice to spare no effort or expense for their pet, shows them to be exemplary pet owners and highly loving, responsible people, more power to them!

I have a huskey, if i had the money to do what i could to save my dog's life i would. However i did get the insurance just incase something like this should hyappen.

I spent 10,000 on a young cat a few years ago. Totally misdiagnosed with heart problems by an idiot vet in Naperville, when the cat really had a cancerous tumor near its pancreas. The cat never had heart problems because I took the cat to a cardiologist who told me so. I then took the cat to several specialists, (internal medicine, oncologists, etc.,) the very best, and found with chemo the cat could still live at best a year. I decided to let nature take its course with two good months without chemo. The sweetest cat ever and I still miss him. I always wonder with that misdiagnosis of a heart problem by the original vet how much valuable time was lost while the tumor was growing, and if that tumor could have been taken out and the cat would still be with me today.

A couple of thoughts:

Did the McGrath's even THINK about getting a second opinion?

It is a down economy. Offer the vet $15K and I'm willing to bet he/she will gladly take it. EVERYTHING is negotiable at present.

Otherwise... a fool and their money are soon parted.

As far as the McGrath family spending the money they are for their dog, I say wonderful!!. If a family has the means and fully comprehends all of the consequences, then do it. I know that I would do (and actually did to some extent) the same thing. I only wish that there was a potential cure for the prostate cancer which killed my dog, Tony, March 26, 2008.

Good luck and best wishes to the McGrath family, including their dog Cody!!

I'll second Anne E's comments. Especially regarding saying good-bye. My family too is fortunate to have a vet that makes house calls, and the time we had to put down one of our Collies (age 13) we did it in our home and it was as peaceful as we could make it. With hindsight my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, but as anyone who has gone though this knows they ebb and flow, so it took longer than was in her best interests to make the ultimate decision in order to spare her additional pain. I'd make that decision sooner next time. Wouldn't be any easier though.

Well, as the topic is "What measures would YOU take to save a pet", I'll give my opinion without judgement. If an animal has a lifespan of say 10-15 years if healthy, and that animal comes down with a serious illness that would require drastic surgery and ongoing expensive medication with side effects that may extend it's life, but extend it with discomfort and pain, I would most likely not take those measures. Especially if the dog is 7 plus years and may only have a few left with normal health.

In my opinion, the pet does not realize that it's life may be shorter than expected. The pet does not live in fear that it may die ahead of it's time. Does a pet need to live with ongoing medical procedures while dealing with pain for an extended period of time? Frightening stays in an unfamiliar medical facility? I would not put my pet through that, as I think the extra effort/painful treatment and time is for the owners, not the best interest of the animal. Perhaps growing up on a farm with horses and llamas as "pets" as well as other livestock gives me a different reference point as to what is quality care and what is too much care on behalf of the humane treatment of animals. Having the farm still in the family west of DeKalb gives me the ability to have my pet put down in a place she loves, on the farm with the vet coming to our place, not stressing her out by having it done in the office. Peaceful.

But, this is my opinion only and one that I have discussed with my kids as our boxer gets to be 9 and in perfect health so far. But we realize that with a breed like this something could happen any time and happen quickly and we will not prolong suffering for our benefit if it causes our pet to live with pain and disease.

While I fully realize that it is the family's right to spend whatever they want on their property, I think that they rank in the top ten of idiotic pet owners. It's just a dog, one that they will miss when it is gone, but will be easily replaced especially if they have an extra $25,000 laying around to waste on frivolous things.

If any treatment for a pet of mine gets much above the cost of replacing it, the pet goes to pet heaven.

I believe that the decision about what to do is up to the pet owner. When I was told 4 years ago that my golden needed a new hip and his 4 small growths would kill him in 6 months I opted to adopt a new puppy. That little thing got him up and moving around and gave him another purpose in life. Today, my golden is healthy, original hips, no further growth expansion and he is bouncing around without having done anything except controlling how much food he eats, exercise and the minimal required shots. I clearly credit the little dog for the older's recovery.

I think a lot of folks are missing an important point. What you do, how you allocate your personal resources, etc are based on your own life experience and values. We live in a society where we have the freedom to act pretty much as we please, within certain norms, laws and parameters, without having to justify or explain our actions--or how we spend our money--to anyone. No one has the right to pass judgement or cast mean spirited dispersions on this family because they have chosen this path with their dog. Our society doesn't instantly become a commune where individual freedoms are (voluntarily) given over to the greater consensus just because someone or a majority thinks something is stupid, unjust or they just don't agree with it. Take this story for what it is, powerful love and the wonder of advancing science.

I think the owners of this dog are being very selfish and thinking of themselves and not the poor dog. Human beings have terrible side effects from chemo so who knows what a dog would go thru. Also the dog is already 7 yrs old and dogs of that size usually only live to be about 13.I have been through the heartbreak of having to have a pet put to sleep but in the end you have to put the pets welfare first and not your own. I had a cat who had lymphoma and chemo was an option. I decided against it as I didn't want his last months or years to be full of the side effects.

My 16 year old commented that for $25,000 she could buy a new car and still have enough money left over to buy the McGrath's a new puppy.

If someone has the ability to provide for a pet,why should it be anyones business but the pets owner. Disclosure;my niece is a DMV and they also specialize in intense pet surgery-therapy. It reminds me of a pal at the wastewater treatment plant who proudly states while it maybe *** to you,it's my bread and butter.

I was trying to get our 6 mo old puppy fixed. Well low and behold the vet said the puppy's liver enzymes were high and they would have to test every week at $85 a pop, until the level went down. I opted not to do anything. THe vet said the dog could die. I commented this is a dog, not my children. She was horrified at my response in turn she told me to just give the dog liquid vitamin k.

Its all about the money.

Just like all these vaccinations. I got one vet to admit there are only two shots a dog needs. Remember back in the day, dogs didn't need all this crap.

Let nature take its course, but do whatever floats your boat.

Our dog is 18 mos old and better than ever!

I've brought mine baby down to UofI for bone marrow draws & that was not too cheap. I'll tell you though, the next pet I get I'll be definitely getting pet insurance. They did not have it 20 some yrs ago & now it is definitely worth it if it cuts some of the cost & makes it more reasonable to take some measures to save them. But then again, I'd probably risk my life pushing an animal away from a car's path! :-) Actually, I spent 30 min with a disoriented dog weaving back & forth in traffic until the owners, who were walking on a path, finally arrived. They assumed he came out ahead to their car & stayed there, but he didn't.

As much as I love dogs, cats and other pets, I am appalled at the thought of these medical treatments to save an animal's life. Anyone who has either endured or witnessed someone go through chemotherapy and/or bone marrow treatments would not consider this fate for a beloved pet. This animal will be subjected to an awful ordeal with no input into the decision.

True, it is not an uncommon course of treatment for a child, basically without their full understanding and consent. But please, let us agree before the argument starts that the child's life serves a greater purpose and should have a natural longevity that is not granted by nature to a pet.

I would never consider this and it has nothing to do with the cost of the treatment. I will leave that for someone else to argue.