Everyone is screaming and yelling and yet, no one knows exactly what happened. It alledgedly did not happen on school grounds but on private property. The parents are ultimately responsibly for any incestuous happenings. I know the boys are very young, but they should be punished some way for their heinous actions. They may have thought it was "fun" but, unfortunately, it was a juvenile crime and the "participants" should not be protected.

He only stepped aside as president of the school board. He should have resigned from the board. He cannot even punish HIMSELF correctly. No wonder this whole incident is bungled. How much more proof would even the most ardent supporters need that he has no business in authority any longer?

Only resign if you are forced to and that is if they have a right to fire you. Other than that, stay.

These people here are just those who join the cast of characters that if they don't get what they want when they want it then they have the right to ask for your job. It's the Naperville(some parts use to be Aurora) way!

I figure if they could do a better job, they would already have the position.

Now we're back on the topic of boundaries?! Boy the length some people will go. I thought most had moved already.

Dear Mark ("Sit Down and Shut Up") Metzger:

Most of us knew you were corrupt after the way you handled the Metea Valley location switcheroo.

Now everybody else has the proof they needed.

Time to go bye bye.

Respectfully Submitted,
Fellow Mother F _ _ _ _ _

Credibility - he's a lawyer, that is not not a characterisitc many of them have, he for one does not. maybe he can join Blago and do the late night circuit. jimmy kimmel may be looking for guests.

If Metzger had one ounce of character he would recognize that he has lost all credibility and that he no longer commands the dignity and respect necessary to lead the SB. At his own hand he has crippled himself and caused himself to be judged unfit to serve.

Clearly it is his choice if he wants to cast his lot in life by overstaying his welcome and be hereafter viewed with the same scorn and contempt the majority now hold for Burris. With a growing schism viewing Metzger as nothing more than a pariah we at least don't have to worry about him being re-elected. Ever.

You know I'll be a sport and kick in another $100 for his good-bye farewell. I'll choke on my bile while the rest of the merry bunch dole out their teary eyed good-byes and present him with a few tacky plaques as a parting memento. Then finally the party will be over, we can all pat him on the ass and once and for all kick him out the door. God knows that somewhere out there is an ambulance that needs chasing.

To Mike G. Zing yourself! As today's most recent news story demonstrates, Steve is way wrong. And he gets no more of our patience and understanding. The entire matter was bungled by the unintelligent administration of SD 204. Like many other things, this is the gang that simply cannot shoot straight. The rising tide of public indignation is actually right. Mark: you simply must do the honorable thing and resign from the board. You must save this school district from further embarrasment and remove yourself from the public eye quickly before YOU become any more of the problem. You have everyone's email address obviously, do it now.

The 2nd $100 will come from my tax paying family!

I doubt Metzger will willingly resign. It would take integrity to do that after his actions, and that would be an oxymoron. He needs to GO!

And don't you think his email speaks for the entire board? Why else would he be sending such an assinine comment to them if they had not discussed the matter and shared the same view? He was slamming someone behind their back and now the entire community sees what he's really made of.

Nice job, Metzer, you are a real piece of work! Thanks so much for caring about our children and our community. You, sir, should be completely and utterly ashamed of yourself.

Let me be the first 204 taxpayer to offer $100 for the resignation of Mark Metzger for the 204 board. It is way past time for this incompetent to be out. I can hardly wait until the next board meeting when I can make my offer to him in public!

3/1/09: Latest example of bad press coming from $204, buried in the Sun. School board president Mark Metzger sends email containing obscenity to fellow board members AND the father of the victim by mistake. How can anyone have any doubt that 204 tips the scales of incompetent people allegedly promoting public education and the interests of district taxpayers and their children? It should seem clear that these so called "educators" and administrators are in fact unable to perform their duties responsibly and yet we allow these people to continue to be in authority. When you do something as stupid as Metzger did with this email, he should resign. I cannot believe that this much accomplished district does not have a policy prohibiting obscenities in emails. He proved just how ingnorant he really is. Again.

So imagine you are the parents of a pre-teen child who experiences the horrific treatment this young boy went through. Imagine your shock and anger. Imagine your disbelief to find out it was not committed by a sick-minded adult(pedophile) or troubled older teen, but instead it was performed by other pre-teens. Then imagine that you are trying to live through this nightmare and help your young child deal with the experience. Imagine that you hug your child and send him off to school with a "Have a good day!" and feel the heartfelt pain only a parent can feel when their child is distressed or stressed... worrying about what kind of long-term effects this will have on your child. Your child who is still a baby in many ways. Imagine your blinding anger and shock when you find out your child was now terrorized and beaten up... at school. AT SCHOOL by one of the alleged attackers. To continue the nightmare, the administrators are unwilling to protect your child and discipline or remove the alleged perpetrator. Imagine trying to protect your child when those that are hired to do the same thing won't. Imagine going to meetings and being treated like you did something wrong and like this situation is your fault. Imagine some smug doofus shrugging his shoulders while telling you, "Our hands are tied."

Can you even begin to imagine experiencing this living Hell? My heart goes out to this family. How many times can an innocent child and his family be let down by the system? And how can those that continually let them down, along with every other innocent child attending the schools with these alleged attackers, keep their job?

Whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, Stephen Daeschner's neck is on the block and his actions (or lack thereof) are the equivalent of the man slitting his own throat. Let's get him out of here and let's get someone who has a clue!

And when will someone stand up and do the right thing? When will someone do the job they are being paid to do?

From the very beginning it was crystal clear that Daeschner was not a good fit in terms of the culture and values that represent the moral and ethical fabric of SD 204 residents.

While having a superintendent of a school district that does not have a strong moral compass is a problem in and of itself it is even more disturbing that in a time of crisis Daeschner is unable to exhibit the leadership that is necessary to unite SD residents.

An apathetic and unresponsive attitude is once again leading to our community becoming divided because the school board and administration simply isn't listening to the residents. Instead we have all of them attempting to play the role of school yard lawyer; a role they play even worse than the role they are supposed to be playing. We don't need school or principals that do not inherently know what is right and what is best for our children. We don't need principals or an administration that do not know how to act to protect the safety of all our children. Most of all we do not need an administration or a school board that hides behind laws they don't even understand, behind legal advice from attorneys with questionable experience and credentials, and other laws which they refuse to use and which are at their disposal to effectively protect the innocent children they have a duty to keep safe and free from harm.

Enough is enough. It is time for action. It is a time for action by anyone who has a child in our school district. For anyone who has a child who by the grace of god wasn't picked by these adolescent monster to be their victim. For anyone who will never know the lifetime of agony this child faces and the heartbreak and despair that their parents carry knowing that something this heinous could happen in a community like Naperville. A place where none of us ever imagined one of our children could have something like this happen to us.

It is a time for demonstrations. It is a time for pickets. It is a time for every school PTA to get organized and to start making noise, a lot of noise. So much noise until it becomes deafening. It is time for everyone to stand up and in one united voice proclaim a vote of NO CONFIDENCE for Daeschner. The rest we will take care of come election time.

Here is some more news: I sense an environment wherein more people simply refuse to parent their children. They consider them to be idols of their individual creation. The live their lives through whatever their children are interested in or can accomplish. Their children can do no wrong and they do whatever they want. And when they are called out for their actions, their "purported" parents are the first to defend their indefensible actions be it from the authorities or others. Now we are dealing with the problems of this kind of idilylic symbolism these children represent to these parents. I remember a time when as a junior high student I was respectful if not at least fearful of someone in the corner bedroom in the event I messed up. Same fear of certian teachers at Elmwood, Lincoln or Naperville Community High School. Of course I (and most kids at the time) lived my own life then. I interacted with my friends without my parents always involved, cheering me on and mooching onto my life. That is not the case anymore. When I went to these schools, we did not have the police stationed at the schools EVERY DAY! They came ONLY periodically. Now of course we give the school police the euphimism "school resource officers". We should hardly be surprised at the turn of events and contrary to the stated opinon, there are not gangs of people going to burn down any house or run anyone out of town. People who do not take care of their business will simply be hauled into the court system and they will in fact get their day in the sun.

This was way before my time, but I now sense the environment where gangs of people would approach your door with torches and burn your house down and chase you out of town. No trial, no jury.

Here's the news...

I know your ancestors are stirring right now, but things just don't work that way anymore. It's called due process.

Personally, if it was my child. I would move. Why would I keep my child at a school/district or in a city where the police department is (perceived) to not be able to do their jobs. I also wouldn't want my child to be picked on or looked down upon at his school, especially if there were pictures. No matter how difficult this is nor how graphic the details it doesn't take away the fact that it happened. That's just my opinion.

and before it is said, yes, I know they shouldn't have to move, but who is the most important individual here. I couldn't imagine my child even having to see this other child everyday. If people in charge don't do what they need to do (in the parents eyes) then you (the parent) need to make it right.

As a parent of 3 in District 204, I am very angry after reading today's article. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1452114,6_1_NA27_GREGORY_S1.article
So Daeschner will not meet with the parents of the victim???"What would we talk about?" Oh my God, really?? It's obvious he does not know how to address this issue and is willing to play ostrich in the hopes that the community will go along with him rather than stand up for the community he heads. This is absolutely unbelievable and unconscienable. We need someone who can do the job they were hired to do, not ignore problems. Maybe Stephen can stay with the district in a different capacity... say, crossing guard or lunch room supervisor. Unbelievable!

Mike G and Stephen: Public education IS NOT a constitutional right. It is a statutory obligation on government to provide public education. I think it is the 10th ammendment that defines obligations of the states. But anyway lets provide our offenders with public education at either alternative schools or privately at government expense until the matter is resolved in juvenile court. It would seem to me ACTUAL ammendments place the victims rights ahead of the offenders in this matter. I also make the argument that if the school system was as concerned with the safety of the student and students at large, students or adults who prey upon people should not be allowed in schools where they can continue to prey. The fact that charges are pending should not prohibit them from being barred from the schools. After the assault, the two offenders were allowed into the school where a subsequent assault occurred by one of the original offenders IN school. The fact the kid was allowed in school and he attacked again is not what any reasonable person could consider protecting the students. Now he is at Lincoln. That is simply unacceptable and I wonder who is next? I am sympathetic to the challenges of the schools. And overall I believe in the schools in both or our districts. However I am tired of the corporate communication lingo as conveyed in your post. I am a taxpayer in both 203 and 204 and I am irritated at what I consider to be bungling and bad press coming from both districts.

to Glock 22 from Steve: zing! Steve is right.

to GLock 22.

This might help you..

You most likely have seen the media stories about an alleged assault involving our middle school students that took place in early November in a private residence. I have a great deal of compassion for all of our families that have been impacted by this incident. Please know that the district's priority is to provide a safe learning environment and know that we are confident that is taking place.

This is an emotionally charged issue filled with legal complexities. Due to privacy laws protecting our students, I'm not able to address all specifics, but I'd like to clarify some of the misinformation regarding this story that seems to be in our community.

Some parents have suggested that the alleged assailants be sent to a non-traditional alternative school or home schooled. At Monday night's Board of Education workshop, the district's attorney spent nearly two hours discussing the legal options available to best address the situation. Under the Constitution, students have a legal right to a public education. Considering this alleged offense took place outside of school, there are limits to what actions the district can legally take. We can not legally move students to a non-traditional alternative school or force them to receive their education at home.

However, if a student is not in a safe environment, or a request is made by the family, a student could be moved to another school within the district. All parents in this case have been offered the option of moving to a different school, but have so far declined the offer. A forced move to one of our other schools is an option, but we have concerns with how welcomed this forced move would be received by the new school community and the impact it may have on students involved.

What we have the most control over is the course of action taken by our school staff to prioritize the safety of the students who remain in the school together. Upon notifying staff of the alleged incident on November 13, the victim’s parents expressed their desire for the school to not have anything done to the students involved. However, school officials did take immediate action to address safety, and on multiple occasions the parents of all parties reached out to school officials to let them know they appreciated the school's actions to keep their students safe. It wasn't until the end of January that the alleged victim's family requested the district move the other students out of the school.

I am in contact with the school on a daily basis to monitor the situation and my first question is always "Are our kids safe?" The school has reported consistently that our students are safe and that students continue to be monitored for additional emotional or academic support if needed.

We have a tremendous school staff and I am highly confident they will continue to take appropriate measures to ensure the safety and well being of every student at the school.

My comfort with the decision to keep the students at the school was reinforced by a recent agreement between the two families involved that was reached in a civil court regarding the conditions of interaction between the students. Specifically, it was agreed that both students could remain at the school. The court's directive to the students closely mirrors the multiple steps previously taken by the school beginning last November. School administrators are confident in their ability to meet the conditions suggested by the court and will be able to continue to provide a safe and effective learning environment for all students.

We ask for your understanding as we continue to work through this emotionally charged issue.

Stephen Daeschner
Superintendent

If you want the family to move - I'm sure they will accept a cashier's check from you. Thought so.

Its nice to see the two school districts helping each other out. Kind of like playing pass the potatoe. 204 adeptly passes its problem on to 203. It is an interesting thing when so called "educators" establish disciplinary codes. Last year, a Jefferson student brings an air gun to school and he is tossed out ten days and sent to an alternative school as I recall permanently. Or at NCHS; one kid can start a fight and if the other kid does anything else other than take the beating, they are both suspended. A Gregory student molests a classmate and then beats him on a subsequent day and the "educators" are concerned with offender rights, reminding us of course he is innocent until proven guilty. Or a student in the Nequa Valley school wears a T-Shirt with a message the school does not like, the shirt is defaced, she is sent home and the dispute ends up in Federal Court and still pending. Thom, where are you on all of this? It would seem to me the new student from 204 is going to drag your precious 203 test score composite downward. Assuming of course the little darling does not go from Naperville to Stateville for other crimes before he is discharged from the school system. Suggestion to 203-do what the Chinese do; you have a minder they call them with one of those 18" commerative bats follow the kid all day, everywhere. As soon as he does one thing out of line, whap. Right on the coconut. Either that or his parent residing in 203 can do the honorable thing take him and move out of town. Joliet would be good, closer to the court house.

Reading the post and having 11 year old son in 204. My heart is broken. Last year at this time my daugher was in class at NIU, when a young man started shooting. She is one of the lucking ones.It was the must frighting day of my life. Have we not learned from these such things?

With the relocation of one of the boys who participated in the attack, he is still in school and he is with other children. Is he a potential threat? How do these parents feel? I'm sure they know who the child is if they read the news and have a child at Lincoln has a 'new' student in their class. Is this boy just meeting potentially new victims or was that an isolated incident? Is he receiving counseling and has he been evaluated both mentally and physically? Is anyone investigating to find out why he acted the way he did? Does anyone know if this child had been abused himself? What kind of family life does he come from? What about the other attacker? Has he received any help?

I know a lot of these are rhetorical questions as we probably won't know the answers to most of them, but I just can't help wondering.

Now what has this solved?

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1447882,Accused-student-now-in-D203_na022409.article

Just shovel around & it is someone else's concern. Sure the victim has one less & that is good I won't deny that, but all these parents now are concerned. Why don't they have a policy at that school now?

Also, speaking as a parent, if my child had behaved the way the two attackers did, I think my very first order of business would be to get them some help because this is not 'normal' behavior. Second of all, at the very least, I would make sure they apologized to the victim. Then, I would be concerned about assimilating them back into mainstream society. The victim is the 'victim' here. Why should he have to defend himself daily when he did nothing wrong? Why shouldn't the attackers have to prove that they are not a threat to the school community before they are allowed to go back to school? It seems ridiculous to me that they should be allowed back into the school system and act like nothing has happened before all of the above steps take place.

Let's protect the victims.

OWVY, I read the article and as a parent, I can understand the frustration experienced by the parents of the victim. Their son should not have to live in fear of retaliation every day that he attends school. What about the parents of the attackers? What is their stance? Did they express shock/remorse/concern for the actions of their sons? Are these boys in any sort of counseling?

The School Board should be addressing the issue and should make sure the students in their schools are safe. Isn't it a liability NOT to address potentially dangerous issues within their schools? Time to man-up and deal with issues head-on. How about a 'no tolerance' policy?

Anyone read this...

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1446124,D204-meeting-disrupted_na022409.article

If this happened on campus, say at my campus, it would be assault & police would arrest and would not be allowed on campus but I will say there is a formal procedure that takes time also including the student appealing. If off campus I'm not sure. I'll have to ask our people. SH would be for if one said things or requested sex for favors...once is it forcing I believe that would be considered rape/assault instead for us.

Ya, I just read that & agree. Surprised they didn't do that before though???

My past student who works at a Sexual offender facility for teens said that indeed psychiatric evals would be to stabilize a person or to determine if they are competent to stand trial & participate in their own defense...which is what I thought. I just asked her again if it is a part of sentencing that the teen ends up by her, which I believe unless it is a family who can afford to place their child on their own for in-facility treatment.

Apparently the victim also claims to have been beaten up by one of the kids the day after charges were filed.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1435698,Boy-accused-assault-charged_na021709.article

"Charles Pelkie, spokesman for Will County State's Attorney James Glasgow, would only confirm Tuesday a misdemeanor battery complaint has been filed against the 11-year-old implicated in the sex crime.

Pelkie said the physical attack occurred Nov. 12, with the battery charge formally filed last week. He would not say where the alleged attack occurred or comment further on the matter.

The battery allegedly occurred the day after the 11-year-old and a 12-year-old friend were charged as juveniles with sexually assaulting an 11-year-old classmate. All three boys attend Gregory Middle School, 2621 Springdale Circle, although the alleged sex assault occurred in a home on Naperville's far south side."

That would be yet another felony.

OWVY,

In court, they usually charge the greater of the charges for which they believe they can obtain a conviction. Once again, school is not a court of law. I am quoting District 204's documented policy and procedure with regards to reported sexual harassment by other students. Do you agree that what was reported to district officials falls into this category (or greater) or not at all?

Original Joe...

But isn't it in court charged differently. For example, Sexual Assault is a different charge than just Sexual Harrassment? It would not be charged with just Sexual Harassment if one sexually abused or assaulted someone.

OWVY,

Sexual abuse, Sexual assault and battery is the physical form of sexual harassment and it is usually violent and against one's consent.

Their administrative procedures do not specifically say on-campus only but it does specify 'by other students'.

I could be wrong but sexual harrassment may be a tinge of it but this is just law..it is criminal sexual assault I think. And yes, I agree they need to try to figure out what is also important if they do it off campus but then you say what if they drink or do drugs outside of campus? Our policy does not have that, only if they come drunk or high to school. We did have to put "online" as a means of sexual harassment & any kind of threatening in our student catalog's code of conduct. I had a student last term who told me he may not be able to finish because it is likely he will be sent to prison. Last spring a parole officer called & asked for work to be completed some way as the student may not be able to come to class. Both cases I don't know charged for what & they were in class & next to other students & we have no clue. We do not find out these things.

Sun Editors:

The last post was mine that quoted district 204 sexual harassment policy. Sorry I neglected to fill out the name information.

OWVY,

Unfortunately the sexual harassment policy does not explicitly state that the harassment has to happen on school grounds. It does say sexual harassment "by other students"; which is what was reported.

Indian Prairie Community Unit School District 204 715.11-R
Page 1 of 1

Administrative Procedures
Sexual Harassment of Students

Distribution of the District's Policy
1.
Students will be informed of the District's Student Sexual Harassment policy and
accompanying procedures through distribution of the student-parent handbooks.
2.
Copies of the Student Sexual Harassment policy may be distributed in other ways
as deemed appropriate by the District's administration.

The District's Educational Program

1.
The education program for grades Kindergarten through 12 will include age-
appropriate instructional materials that lead to student understanding of sexual
abuse and harassment.

The Student Complaint Process

1.
Complaints of sexual harassment by other students may be received orally or in
writing. Upon receipt of a complaint, building administrators will generally advise
appropriate central office administrators of the complaint, unless the preliminary
investigation reveals that the complaint is unsubstantiated or that the alleged
conduct does not warrant significant student discipline. The student's
parent(s)/guardian(s) will be notified.
2.
The Nondiscrimination Coordinator or Grievance Complaint Managers will follow
the Uniform Grievance Procedures, and conduct an investigation of the complaint
appropriate to the allegations made.
3.
If the preliminary investigation reveals that the complaint is substantiated and may
warrant suspension and/or other agency involvement, the student will be asked to
put the complaint in writing. The student's parent(s)/guardian(s) will be informed
that they may attend any investigatory meetings in which their child is involved.
Also, the parent(s)/guardian(s) will be kept informed of the investigation's
progress.
4.
The student's oral or written statements will be kept confidential, except as
necessary to complete the investigation. District personnel will, however, comply
with child-abuse reporting laws, where applicable.

Adopted: 7/16/01

Original Joe...

I did not say they could not make a policy...I said there is none currently, so they have nothing to work with the lack of one right now. If they had one or do create one, then they can do it & it would be up to the parents of the victims to take them to court if they felt the policy was not legal as anyone else does if they think a policy is not legal, just like many do. Just like at my school, we do not have a policy for the school or an individual teacher does not in their syllabus you can't hold students to it. You put it in the student catalog or syllabus then you can hold them to it. For example, previously we could not tell students they could not call or text etc during class, then they made it a policy and now they know they can not & if they do they can be asked to leave the classroom.

To Anon on February 16, 2009 12:04 AM

School districts across the country can and do remove students charged with felonies, including sexual assault, from the rest of the student population. District 204 just happens to be one that does not ensure that there is no threat to the rest of the student population, even after they are made aware of the problem.

That is not having anyone "strung up in the nearest tree already." That part would be a court's sentencing. All that is asked for by many parents is that the problem be removed from the rest of the student body until the matter is settled. This is no different than if someone (student or faculty) was charged with murder or rape. These are felony charges, they are not misdemeanor 'slap on the wrist' charges.

OWVY,

You have yet to cite which law says the district can not make a policy about this or where it even says people charged with felonies, especially those involving sexual assault, must remain at school.

You speak of obeying the law. Cite the laws.

As an impartial outsider it is very clear to me that everyone posting on this topic is blinded by their own rage and none of you are thinking clearly or even logically. For the worst of the offending posters thank goodness there isn't any extra rope laying around or you would have had these kids strung up in the nearest tree already.

Some of you posters make me really proud to be an American... really proud that I put my own life on the line more than once defending our way of life in America just so morons like you can take advantage of the right to free speech.

So go ahead all of you keyboard commando's... knock yourself out with your self-proclaimed brilliance and opinionated answers for every ill that affects our society.

Well I'm not taking it lightly just because I want to obey the law Original Joe. Be very careful what you assume. I take the law very seriously & I take it very serious on a daily basis, not just when something happens at my kids school, to talk to them about things that are a problem in society and how to protect themselves so they can deal with it not just when they know someone is near them that is a problem but more importantly when they least expect it. If you think about it, you know which is so much better than not knowing...just like I mentioned others who may be in the class they have no clue about.

Oops that may be me that is the Jerk Anonymous you refer too since my posting name did not get on that one at 8:45pm.

But why is it jerk anonymous? I didn't say I don't want a law...what Anonymous are you calling a jerk? I would agree that MANY laws we have do not always work...it is life unfortunately. It use to be perfectly fine to rape your wife. There was no such thing of raping your wife. In fact, one religion just made a statement in the last few years that still says it is the wife's duty to satisfy the husband whenever he wants it. Use to be able to beat up your wife & kids. Wasn't rape before if you didn't say no so just tape her mouth up no problem, now a law that is no ok either! As problems occur in society we create laws as some do slip through the cracks of justice. I didn't say I wasn't for new laws!

OWVY,

The sad reality is that I do happen to know more than most about the amount of and types of sickos out there. It was once an unfortunate part of my job working with the Secret Service, FBI, Customs, Postal Inspectors and local law enforcement for subpoenaed evidence for crimes like this. I don't nor have I ever taken it lightly and I've observed that those that do are often tipping their hand in a way they might not be aware of.

OK jerk law anonymous, we do need new laws to protect the victim's and to protect the assailants especially when they are 5 and under.I know for a fact that in 2006 a kindergarten boy sexually victimized another kindergarten child for 45 min in a school bathroom because of the age police could not do anything charge wise and DCFS dropped the case because kids at this age are resiliant and they will not remember. Both children were failed by the school,and all the above.The mother of the assailant pulled her son out of the school for 2 yrs and returned him this year with a different physical look hoping no one would recognise him, but we all did and now the Westchester intermediate school on canteberry street 60504 dist 92.5 decided to hire a full time aid for him. This child can not take one step alone in the school like a dog on a leash. Meanwhile the victim has to face this child everyday and be on guard at all time instead of learning daily lessons. Yes ononymous jerk we need a new law because the districts hands are tied legally this is not mayberry and it's only going to get worse maybe next will be preschool. Police, DCFS, School no one knows how to handle this.Especially in the western suburbs.They were only 5 yrs old. Senger is my hero!

BTW Original Joe...

Do you know if you have ever sat next to a Child Predator of any age in a movie theater? How about some Restaurant? How about in the mall? What about other crimes? You would be amazed. You act like you & your child are not going to anywhere else or haven't already. I'll bet you have and you didn't even know it. They do not all look like the boogie man or have it stamped on their foreheads. How about how many work with everyone that have raped or beat up their wife on a daily or weekly (whatever) basis? How many parents may be sitting at a school athletic game or board meeting that are beating up their kids. Oh I'm sorry I forgot no one in Naperville does that! Right! So what are you doing about that? Why aren't you so concerned about that & telling you child it is ok. Although Ignorance is bliss isn't it. So long as you don't know you don't have to worry about it huh. The last child predator symposium one case was of a couple who would carry their video camera on their hip in public places & tape little kids & then take it home & get off on it. Did you ever check to see if the red light is on a camera someone is carrying? Ya, stuff I didn't want to know but at the same time you are glad you know. You have no idea if there is any other kids in that school right now that may be being sexually abused at home even by a sibling. Chances ar their are a number of them. You have no idea if they are the big brother or sister who is doing it. You may have the one you know about next to your child but the other side of them may be another!

Ummm yes I do...my point is the evals are later...justice did not fail...they do this as a process of the court. The attorney may ask of this & it takes time & then sentencing may be to place them in a facility that does treat this. This is not the day they are charged with it that it happens as far as I understand. The point I was making with Insanity & Mental illness is that those are extremes if they wondered if one was sane they would place them in a facility or if they had bipolar & manicing they would be placed in a hospital for eval. With this they are not insane is my point so they are not removed, they simple post bail if charged. Are adults who sexually assault children & charged with it placed in a facility immediatelY? Someone know? Not to my understanding but? After sentencing perhaps it is an option. I'll check on that also. The evals could be happening now or have if the attorneys are working on it. We don't know. Ane yes, I am very aware of what cause young children to do this behavior & many times they are a victim but not always! I agree it is a judicial issue & justice does take time. Unfortuantely...but it does.

Original Joe...that was nasty. You would tell them just as much as you do for a sexual predator that may be living on your street! You would tell them the same on what is acceptable & not acceptable. You would tell them what to do if they were by chance alone with them. Do you think the faculty & staff there are going to let any child be alone with them on school grounds & risk a lawsuit on that one...much less how would they live with themselves if they did. I could never do that. You teach them also how to defend themselves, just like if they went to the mall or playground & someone approached them. Heck, my niece is 11 1/2 yrs old & she knows what to do. The question is do most parents teach their kids how to defend themselves with say an adult or older teen? Do most adult women know what to do? I know most communities do hold classes, sometimes even by the police on what to be aware of & what to do. Perhaps this is something in general the town wants to look into for children as parents may not even know. I'd be more worried my child would have a problem at the playground or mall etc. That is why I don't leave her alone than in school with other children & adults. How many children are out of an adult view during school that this can happen? I'm thinking when they get passes to go to the bathroom or have to go to an office & then once they are leaving school grounds. So the "offenders" aren't aloud to go by themselves anywhere...and then one has to just think about how they are getting home. I mean it isn't like your child is going to be attacked during class. Hoe do you tell your child the rest of the world is safe? It isn't! When they walk to a friends house. When they go to a roller skating party...I mean this is not just a sleepover it is anywhere so then...

"Guilty until proven innocent, huh, Naperville?"

Does your child sit next to another human being in school who is formally charged with a sexual assault and battery crime against an 11 year old? Would you find it unacceptable if the school put them in your kid's class ? What do you tell your child? "Don't worry, just know where the rope and penetrating objects are at all times and stay clear of them that way there will be nothing to worry about, honey. Never fear sweetie, it's just alleged, so there really is no possible danger to anyone else whatsoever. In fact, it's how I met your father. Good luck on your test today!"

Yes sir, perfectly safe learning environment.

Guilty until proven innocent, huh, Naperville?

OWVY,

You simply do not know what in the heck you are talking about. This has absolutely nothing to do with insanity or competency to stand trial. No one is claiming that these kids are insane or incompetent, but just like innocent until proven guilty we don't clearly know there mental health until it is properly evaluated and/or diagnosed.

Children who sexually assault other children are not "normal". Most especially not normal when sexual assault is taking place in this age group and most especially when the assault is gender upon gender assault. These kids have deep emotional problems and the vast majority of the time are acting out in response to having been sexually abused themselves in the past.

These kids are many times as much a victim as much as they are a perpetrator. They need help. A lot of help. Most of it is going to come from psychiatric counseling and it is not going to just "go away" on it's own. These kids should be in the process of being evaluated for both medical and psychiatric needs not just returned to school like someone who is out on bail for robbery or home invasion.

This is NOT a school board issue. This is an issue related to the criminal justice system. These children should be in the care and custody of the criminal justice system and should not have been released to return to school. The criminal justice system failed and that alone has created an issue for the school board.

We need to fix the problem at the source which is the criminal justice system, not put a band-aid on the school system.

I'm not disagreeing that they may be able to come up with a policy...the question is do they currently have one. If they can fine they should, but then I believe just like laws it would take effect for anything after that policy is created. Then like many schools have had, if they make a policy that others feel is not just they take them to court. Even our student code of conduct states "violating any laws of the state of Illinois or its political subdivisions" but it does not state if this includes off campus or whether this is you have been charged or found guilty. If that were the case, off campus, I wonder how many of our students have been convicted of DUI, and how many convictions? I know many who can not drive currently. Now it does say "any laws" so...if you want to be technical here. How many have had a battery conviction? Stealing etc.

As for the psychiatric part mentioned...yes the courts can have a separate part on determining if someone is insane I believe you want to suggest or mentally competent to stand trial. But be careful...Insanity is a legal term & is not the same thing as a mental illness. You can be mentally ill and not insane & be competent to stand trial. So they may not have done anything psychiatrically because they may not need to. Now lets say someone is an Adult & BiPolar and they are in a manic state & the police respond, yes they would be turned over to a hospital with psychiatric services & be treated & likely released after they are under control. I don't believe there has been any mention of these children having other mental issues other than the claim they molested a child though. Now after they have gone to court can a sentence of the court be they are sent to a facility to treat them for this sexual crime...yes, from my understanding they could be. I don't believe that is before the court date, though I will check with a colleague who actually works at one of those facilities and get back to you.

To By Anonymous on February 15, 2009 9:30 AM, I could not have said it any better! You are so right and the powers that be need to follow the proper channels or we should act to replace them. Why are they not in the media being held accountable for not properly using the existing laws???

This is a great idea and long overdue. Students with criminal behavior should not be allowed to attend regular schools where they can continue their crime on unsuspecting classmates

Anyone familiar with juvenile crimes of this nature know full well that in addition to the criminal activity that there most commonly are serious psychiatric issues that need to be assessed to determine what role, if any, such psychiatric conditions may have played in the incident and if there were any previously unknown and untreated psychiatric conditions. The courts must, at times, follow two separate courses of actions... one medical and one legal.

Even when the courts can not legally hold someone because of bail or other reasons on the criminal charges there still is commonly enough cause in cases like this to order those charged be turned over to the care and custody of a psychiatric facility and not just returned them to the general population. Psychiatric facilities that treat school age children are legally obligated to provide teachers and to continue their education while they are in their care and custody.

We do not need new laws. We need those responsible for overseeing and managing this case to properly use the existing laws that are already in place. And we simply must stop reelecting incompetent people to serve in many of our elected positions if they are incapable of providing some of the most vulnerable members of our population with basic protection already afforded under the law.

OWVY,

If you can show where the law says the District can not make its own policy with regards to student discipline, I will gladly concede that they are powerless to do anything without a law being made or changed. Otherwise, they are within their authority to do so.

Please cite the state or federal code prohibiting them from doing what other school districts around the country have already done.

Well first an adult witnessing it is quite different, though again, one has to be careful with that also. Many claim things that did not happen. Not typical to catch one in the act. Now conditions of employment & unions are very different. Things are more spelled out. This is why the senator wants to make a law so each school would not have to place it in writing. It is a very silly question to ask whether I would want someone like that, I've also said it isn't like I'd like my child to be near them but I also abide by laws. If they have something for teachers or students to get them out then fine, if not then get something to do so! Haven't lawyers been consulted on this for the school?

OWVY,

Yes, there are cases where people are charged and a verdict of not guilty gets returned. One such 'not guilty' verdict was Oct 3, 1995.

As stated previously, the school system is not a court of law. The court of law will determine guilty or not guilty. The school system has an obligation to keep their student population safe from harm or potential harm from the actions these kids are accused and charged with.

By your logic, if a teacher is accused of these same charges then the teacher should be allowed to remain with the students until a guilty verdict is handed down. The same holds true for a teacher charged with any other felonies, correct? Is this your assertion on this blog? Or, would you rather the school system play the "better safe than sorry" route when it comes to the children?

I'll be a little graphic to drive the point home: A kindergarten teacher is witnessed to be sexually assaulting their neighbor's child in their own back yard. The teacher is charged with multiple crimes including a felony of sexual assault. The teacher, according to you, should be allowed to still be around other kids and in fact should still be allowed to teach kindergarten because they have not been found guilty of any crime yet and because it happened off school grounds. That is basically what you are saying here. Right?

If my child was charged with these crimes and felonies I would have the decency to not leave them in a public school. I would remove them entirely from contact with other kids because OBVIOUSLY something is VERY WRONG with my child and probably even myself if they are that age and in that kind of predicament.

No one is presuming guilt. That is a court's job. What has been established is that there is a credible serious threat to other students based upon at least one eye witness account of previous actions towards another student.

Um Original Joe...we do not only comment on you! If you notice my comment comes right after the NO SLEEPOVERS by an Anonymous. That is what my comments are directed to.

Here is one for you thought...you seem to have some problem with understanding having enough to charge someone is not proof of guilt. There are plenty of cases that are charged & go to court but they are found not guilty. You might want to wait until the verdict just to make sure. Chances are yes but careful...I'm sure you would all want us to give you the innoncent until proven guilty.

Fed up with them noise...You need to read correctly who is posting there is no OWVY poster...that is an expression...look above that.

NO, I don't want the women there...the point was you don't close all daycares because of her; it is an analogy to the comment of NO SLEEPOVERS just because of a few kids who did something wrong. I'm not sure why you didn't see the connect with my comment right after the anonymous one.

The daycare is different as it happened at the place, unlike the school. It isn't like she did it at the daycare and then someone is saying she can't go into a mall where there are children. If you did something wrong at the daycare, anything worth firing you get fired. If you do something wrong at the school worth being expelled you are expelled. I agree with Mark! That Duke case is a perfect example. What if those guys were not allowed to go to school. Look at what happened to them and for nothing! I wouldn't want any of you on my jury if you are presuming guilty just from a charge.

I'm stunned at how far afield this thread has gone.

I think Senger's idea is horrific. In our nation, many are charged with a crime, but not all are convicted. We cannot start treating as pariahs every single person who has simply been charged with a crime. Look at the Duke case.

OWVY - your cavalier attitude about rape and sexual assault is disturbing at the least. As for your silly comment about closing daycare centers, should the young woman who threw the baby down, be allowed to continue providing child care? After all, she hasn't been convicted yet - merely charged, just like the two young men who have been arrested and charged with sexual assaulting a classmate.

OWVY,

It now sounds like you have to go far beyond the situation to keep arguing. There was sufficient evidence to charge them with multiple crimes; including a felony. This isn't a tiny minuscule incident like stealing a hot-wheels from Walmart. The crime they are charged with involves (among other things) physical invasion of body space and body in a sexual manner.

No one suggested to close down the schools (baby with the bath water). What was suggested was to remove the offending individuals because their documented charges by law enforcement included harm to an individual that warrants felony charges. Other school systems around the country have policies in place that allow for the expulsion or relocation of those charged with crimes involving drugs, weapons and sexual assault whether they allegedly transpired on or off school property. District 204 is behind the times on this one. Way behind.

Well that is throwing the baby out with the bath water. No more importantly you educate them more & heck if you want use a baby monitor in the room. They dont' have to know. HA! If you start doing that what else will start to be stopped & pretty soon nothing will be left because you live in fear. There is a difference between taking precautions, educating, even self-defense and eliminating anything that has potential of bad consequences...which really that is everything in life. I mean I wouldn't say no more dating if I was by chance raped. Ya, take me time to deal with it but to just write off all men...NEVER! ;-) Too many good ones on this planet to let the bad ones ruin it for us. Should we get rid of all daycares because of that recent incident? No playgrounds do to injuries...on & on.

Who would ever think we would need laws in our ES/MS to protect our kids from another student for sexual assault. How much worse could it get.

One thing that we can all learn from this is NO MORE SLEEPOVERS. And when your kids have friends over to "hangout", no closed doors amd frequent visits to your basement.

Perhaps it is time to say it is a priviledge to get an education also since the taxpayers are paying for it. Why would I want to spend my money on a student who is wasting that opportunity doing drugs, alcohol, stealing, any criminal behavior. Of course I guess I spend it one way or the other...prison. I wouldn't pay one of my employees to continue to do it. While I know it is a bigger issue, many may be turning to drugs etc because they are having difficulty in school & it is not being helped, that is not the reason everytime. Basically, it says if you are athletic we care if you drink etc but hey if you are not it is not a big deal. Have them all sign honor codes then. Heck, now that I'm older, have it even in college, you abuse alcohol enough you get a dui or something you lose your grants & scholarships...boy that might make a difference. Would I suggest that when I was in college, heck no. HA! Now I know I'm old! HA! Of course we'll have to see how many college student will have to blow to start their cars soon! Pretty soon they won't even have friends to give them a ride.

Interesting that everyone has forgotten their history. The only reason this country was able to pass a constitution is because the bill of rights was written and added. This proposal infringes upon numerous of those ammendments including the concept innocent until proven guilty. There is a price to our freedoms and they cannot be comprimised!

Thank you Darlene Senger for your attention to this matter and stepping up to the plate to initiate change where it is greatly needed. You have made me very proud to have voted for you. This lack of policy needs to be corrected before it happens again. All of the District's students need to be protected and know that they have the law on their side. This situation is not good for the victim, the accused, or any of their classmates. I pray that the law is passed.

This is a reference back to the previous thread.

OWVY stated in his first post on the issue "I thought of some of the HS who do still discipline when the athletes drink off campus. How are they able to do that then? "

The reason they are able to discipline students by removing them from a team, club, etc is that when the students sign up for that team they sign a "code of conduct" statement. Both of my kids did so for every sport they participated in at WV for the four years they were in high school. In that code of conduct (which can be seen at the following link
http://wvhs.ipsd.org/images/2008-2009/greeneligsheet.pdf
issues such as academic standards, substance use, and hazing are all covered.
Athletics are considered a privilege not a right for the students. If they violate the code of conduct, the school can discipline them. Many of the clubs also have similar things. The IHSA also has some standards that apply to all IHSA sanctioned activities.

That is all a little different than just basic education and school attendance.

While I agree that it is best that those kids in the assault not be in that school, it is a much trickier situation. I am glad Darlene Senger is trying to do something at the state level that will make it clearer for how schools can deal with this.

What a ridiculously stupid idea! We do not need more knee jerk laws like this! Senger is an idiot and only pandering to an emotional issue.

We also need a school board who has enough spine to do what is right in extreme cases. This is far from the first time a school has had to deal with such an incident. We are not charting any new ground as these kinds of crimes and issues have already been handled and resolved in other schools. The fact that it is the first case in this school and the administration and school board do not know how to handle it only puts a spotlight and magnifying glass on how really inept they all are.

Think about this logically for just a little bit... it is apathetic and lazy judges and defense lawyers who abuse and exploit the legal system who are failing us.

If these two kids are a threat to anyone... the victim or other potential victims then why are they not in juvenile detention and why were they allowed to return to school? If these two kids are a threat to other kids it would be an absolute tragedy to simply and deliberately move these kids to another school. What a wonderfully stupid idea! Put them into a situation where no one knows their history or their potential and we are almost guaranteed a new victim. If we learned one thing from the Catholic priest scandal it is that you don't quietly transfer the perpetrator to other places where no one know the history. Hopefully none of us are that stupid to support such a poorly thought out plan. Frankly it isn't likely that many private schools would admit kids with this kind of cloud hanging over them anyway, so in most cases this really isn't a viable option.

If the legal system can not or will not keep these kids within a juvenile detention facility or a psychiatric facility for observation and treatment then the only viable option left is home confinement.

Why is everyone madd at the SB. They can only do so much. My heart goes out to this child and his family. The problem is we are dealing with a public schools system funded by local and state government which in cases like this hold the SB hostage.

Families that are fortunate to send their kids to private schools are lucky. The administrators wouldn't have to think twice about what to do. But since it is a public school the SB has to worry about being sued everytime they take discplinary actions to this level.

I certainly do not think these two boys should be in our schools, however, the law is on their side. Times like this the accusers are protected more than the victim. Ask any rape victim what it is like to face their accusers when case comes to trial.

AND WHERE THE HE!! ARE THE PARENTS OF THESE ACCUSERS. WHEN DO THEY OWN UP TO WHAT HAPPENED AND TAKE ACTION FOR IT. THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CHILDS ACTIONS, LIKE IT OR NOT. IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO ACT AS PARENTS AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

WHERE WERE THEY WHEN THIS WAS HAPPENING. THEY DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING. YOU LEAVE KIDS UNATTENDED IN A SLEEPOVER. SOUNDS LIKE THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AS WELL.

But we live in a society when nobody takes responsiblity for their actions: Blago, CEO of banks, politicians, CEO of the peanut factory, etc., etc. Let your kids watch the evening news, they'll learn that you can screw up as adults and make lots of many money. Is this the new American Way...

Again, people have a hard time distinguishing the two separate statements.

I personally don't want them around other kids. We legally can not keep their parents from enrolling them elsewhere if they choose to do so. District 204 can only control the school settings is has jurisdiction over.

If you are uncomfortable with those simple facts, then I'm sorry you can not distinguish the two from each other.

If you think it's OK for them to be around other kids, given the circumstances of what they are accused of, then please let us know if they are around your kids at the moment. If not, then why don't you get your children together for some play time. Let us all know how that works out.

The reason for the law is simple: Some have asserted that since they don't have an explicit policy about this specific circumstance that they are powerless to do anything about it and have basically ignored the fact that they already have broad discretionary authority on handling student discipline with regards to conduct both on and off school property. The law forces the issue and lets them know in no uncertain terms that they have both the authority and obligation to act.

Original Joe,

If you want them around no kids at all, than they can't be in private schools were there are kids. They can't be in schools for the troubled where there are also other kids.

Let us just put them in a dungeon and lock them up! Let us have a security guard control the key to the dungeon.

Is that what you really want, Original Joe?

If you state that they should not be near any children then don't make a suggestion they can go to private or out of state or whatever & they can't do anything...actually private probably can do more than public. Just don't even suggest or state it...it leave a bad taste & suggests well who cares is my point. I would not say well this babysitter is bad with my kids and should not be around kids & then the next breath say but hey if some other parent hires her there is nothing I can do about it.

If the state level gives them this authority then why does the senator want to make a law...they don't need a law if they can do this already. She would even tell them this.

Senger has shown she will be the best representative this district has ever had. While the school board left all of our children in danger Senger took action. Real policy that will lead to real results, way to go Darlene.

OWVY,

Again, you are trying to insert something I did not say or mean.

I simply said D204 could do nothing if their parents chose that route. Again, to state for the umpteenth time (which you keep ignoring and trying to create an argument where there is none).

I do not think they should be around ANY other children at this time.

As for factuality about what a school board and administration can and can not do... go look up the authority granted from the state level.

Yes I know...but that is saying it would be ok with you if the parents wanted to spring for it. Would that be a suggestion you would make if your child was in the private school they chose to spring for? See? You are saying they shouldn't be around kids but hey as long as they are out of the loop of my kids.

So you are assuming they are factual then? Where is it to look at?

I said: "If 'home' is not the 'solution', then the parents can sure as heck figure out what would be; away from other kids. They can also spring for private school if they choose. I don't think District 204 would stop them from relocating their kids elsewhere."

If you are going to say what I said, then say it properly and don't change it.

What I said is true; if the parents of the accused want to pull their kids and place them in private school, then D204 is out of the loop entirely. Also, I stated multiple times thatI personally don't think they should be around other kids at all.

The lawsuit I was referring to was the NSFOC or whatever their name was where the District Lawyers basically said they can do whatever they want to when it comes to conducting their own business. Read the motions they filed. It's an eye opener to the authority the district and school board have; assuming it is factual.

Continue from other thread...

What false argument...you said put them in private. I didn't! Why would you want them near any...so then don't say that stay with your at home idea.

As to the something in court in June, I still don't think that can do as much as your think. My HS alone went to court for refusing a student with emerald green hair, for refusing guys to wear earings, and for strip searching some guys because they felt they were ummm too manly! They are in court all the time it seems. They only get away with what someone does not take to court.

I never said I would like the situation if my child was there...I even mentioned that before but I also know you can't do things, well shouldn't, unless you know you have legal backing. I'm not sure how a judge would take this if the parents of the boys sued the school. Hard to believe this has not happened elsewhere yet. I mean heck hasn't there even been a situation with a male raping a girl and where they allowed back in school as it went to court?

At least the law would remove the excuses to not act.

Other more legal savvy districts handle this internally by simply having it in a more generic and blanket policy without the need for a state law.