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Controversy in District 204 continues to simmer

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On Nov. 11, two students at Gregory Middle School in District 204 allegedly sexually assaulted a classmate at a private residence. The two have been charged in the case, but a trial is still pending.

In recent weeks, the school district has said it lacks the power to remove the accused students from the school, but one of them has transferred voluntarily to a middle school in District 203. The other accused boy has a legal order to stay at least 100 feet away from the alleged victim. The alleged victim's father and many other district residents say this isn't enough. Parents and residents spoke out recently at a contentious school board meeting. Later, District 204 board President Mark Metzger has taken heat for an e-mail he mistakenly sent to the boy's father and several school officials in which he called the father an unprintable name. On Monday, a group of residents met in a private home to discuss their options, including boycotting district testing and signing a petition for Metzger to step down. On Wednesday, a state House committee will meet to discuss Darlene Senger's proposed bill to give a clear legal option to school districts in situations like this.

What do you think about the recent developments? Do you think there are any options for parents in the district who are unhappy with the district's handling of the situation?

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321 Comments

So I understand there's a petition being circulated to get rid of Metzger, does it have any teeth? In other words, does it have any legitimacy or authority to remove him? or is it just to shame him into resigning, cause I don't see that happening with that arrogant MF-er (oops that's his word.)What is the legal SOP to impeach him? How many signatures would it require to have basis?

Look at this...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-high-school-list-21mar21,0,6235343.story

They seem to have policies for things which happen when not on campus unless they are allowed to use Facebook during free time on campus but ??? Perhaps it was for the in school behavior? Not real clear...someone should look into this though!!

So when does it end....when will somebody finally come in and break the stranglehold these teachers have on our society with their unions. In twenty years at the current average of 4-5% annual raises (compounded) their salaries will more than double. Is this 9 month a year job with all their holidays worth 200K per year? 2 generations from now that will be the question. I say let them strike next time around. We'll all skip one year and hire baby sitters or home school and tell them to take it or leave it. Bring in some subs and tell the unions to go pound sand. It's high time we draw a line and say that's it, go to another district if you want. 203 and 204 take turns using their leverage against each other for bigger and better raises. Bring on the internet and let's mass produce the basics of a high school education. Why do we need these Taj Mahals at $140 million to learn in? Is a supt worth 5 times a teacher's salary? To do what? Crunch numbers and go to meetings with other imposters. They've got everybody buffaloed.

They act as though they have to re-invent the wheel every summer revamping their lesson plans, give me a freakin break. They read from a script from the previous year with a couple of minor tweaks. It's the easiest place in the world to hide!

What is most interesting to me is that of all the topics, it is the topics centering around the schools that garner the most interest and comment. It would seem all opinions are not rosy with conosumers of the local educational industry and I wonder why? We surely spend more money on education than any other government funded service and yet the complaints are most vivid. Perhaps the controversy stems from a supposition that we spend too much money and there is too much wrong with the return in some measure?

It is very sad when the people who are responsible for teaching the future professionals of the world are being slandered on a blog! You never know what a person's life is like until you walk in their shoes. Maybe you should all become teachers and see how EASY it is! You are not supporting your own kids by not supporting their teachers!

I have heard of kids younger than 13 charged with felonies. Not sure if our state is one of them.

Someone needs to find out if its a State law or U.S. Code. My understanding is children, (Under the age of 13) cannot be charged with distribution of porn. If charges are brought, they have to be charged as adults which is why at least they "children" have to be high school age.

There is no such thing as a child porn indictment for another child.


In Response to - Anonymous on March 17, 2009 12:46 PM

I agree with you on the pictures... I am pretty close to this situation and I myself have not seen ANY pictures. I do understand that they exist, but do not believe that they are just floating around out there for people to view. And if they are....Then this community has a bigger problem then I thought.

Even though I believe in people’s rights, and a right to an education, I am not sure that I believe in pretending this didn't happen and just standing by to see how the courts handle this situation. The unfortunte reality is that this happens all over and people don't want to get involved. My sister is a school Sycologigist and has to deal with these situations on a daily basis. Thats right daily!!!!

The reality is "where are these boys’ parents"???? What are they doing to HELP there boys, regardless if they believe they are innocent or not? I can't imagine that I, as a parent, would do nothing to help my obviously troubled child!!! I understand that these boys have only been accused of these crimes and not charged, but as a parent if my child was in this situation I would have to seriously rethink my child’s mental wellbeing.

The pics were widely circulated.

Again, I havnt seen (and dont want to) them and most of the people on this blog have not seen them. Im not saying they dont exists but to convict the kids because someone claims to have seen the pictures is wrong.

That said, back to my original point I am not defending the kids, but dont see how a lawsuit can be effective. Its a waste of time and money. The schools will have to pay a lawyer to defend the district against a lawsuit that has little merit. You can sue all you want but unless there are some type of damages you dont stand a chance of winning.

ANON...you've got to be kidding....the kids at Lincoln think this is no big deal!? wow, have you talked to your child about this because I've talked to mine and drive a whole car load home every day and hear that it is a HUGE deal.

They are aware of the situation, but it is not at the top of the list of things that are affecting their life at the moment. I have talked (we have a very open and close relationship) to my kids, their friends and their friends parents. Not one of them seem to act like this is a bid deal. Maybe its because they are not in the same grade as the kid or maybe its because they have other things to occupy their time. In fact the kids tell me the parents are making a bigger deal out of this then the kids they know.

Heellooo!!! Have any of you considered that there would be child pornography indictments filed against these kids by now if in fact there was any substantiating evidence of this act? End of rumors

ANON...you've got to be kidding....the kids at Lincoln think this is no big deal!? wow, have you talked to your child about this because I've talked to mine and drive a whole car load home every day and hear that it is a HUGE deal.

The pics were widely circulated.

"short circuiting the legal process" Anonymous 11:52 are you serious? In most places those who commit felonies, even juveniles await their trials under supervision. I worked in the juvenile court in Detroit and we used to tether ours for less than this. I think that it has everything to do with being in Dupage. Everyone is willing to give a rich kid a break.

Tethers are a court ordered device. It is not for the school or us to decide the legal status of these kids. While I defend the kids right to remained an alleged criminal, I also wish the court would step in and provide some direction. How do we know the kid is not tethered? Remember we are dealing with kids almost everything we know is through rumor or from the side of the victim. juvenile laws keep most details of a case sealed with the court. I for one would have no problem with a tether or a court order keeping the kid out of the school.

But at the same time, its not for us to determine the legal status of this kid. Sorry but I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. Also from the information I have been given from the school, I don't feel that any child currently in the school is in danger.

"Sorry anon, these boys are guilty and the proof is in the pictures."

Have you seen the pictures? Or are you going on the rumor that there are pictures?

I tend to believe they will be eventually convicted, but a fundamental pillar of our society remains innocent until proven guilty by a jury trial. Sorry, but thats the way it works in this country. We (the general public) can not convict someone without being on the jury for the trial. I'm sorry, it stinks sometimes but thats the way it is. As I said if we can push someone out of the school because we dont like what the ALLEGED (sorry, its still alleged at this time) crime was then we can push anyone out.

Yes I do have a kids at the school. They are aware of the situation but don't seem to be affected by it in any way. In fact they tell me its not a big deal.

BTW, I have lived in Naperville for the last 20 years. Again, I'm trying to figure out what damages this child has caused the parents at Lincoln at this time. Anyone can sue for anything, it doesn't mean they will win. Its pretty hard to win just because you don't like a situation. You have to prove damages, and I don't see any damages here.

I would prefer that the child was not in the school, but the law says he can/must be there.

"short circuiting the legal process" Anonymous 11:52 are you serious? In most places those who commit felonies, even juveniles await their trials under supervision. I worked in the juvenile court in Detroit and we used to tether ours for less than this. I think that it has everything to do with being in Dupage. Everyone is willing to give a rich kid a break.

Sorry anon, these boys are guilty and the proof is in the pictures. As far as lawsuits, that's Naperville for you. There will be lawsuits regardless of how either district has responded to this issue. That's just how this community rolls...are you new here?
This is a whole lot more than a "philosopical issue" This was sodomy. You obviously do not have kids in either school or you'd know exactly the effect these kids are having. Besides, it's not healthy at all for this kid to go to Lincoln. Do you think he has been welcomed by others there? Far from it. Apparently kids are a lot like convicts...they don't like pervs.

his whole thing makes me sick. A couple of kids "rights" are be put in front of the rights of the thousands of kids at these 2 schools. The word in the Lincoln area is that several groups have formed and have consulted with lawyers.

Im not defending the kid in anyway, but Im struggling to understand the basis of the lawsuit. As far as we know the kid has not committed any infraction at Lincoln to date. I dont see any damages caused by the kids being in Lincoln. Not sure what there is to sue for here. If we could sue every time we had a philosophical issue with a kid attending school I would guess the schools would be half empty. That kid thats perceived as a bully, sue to remove them. The kid who was convicted of assault and battery (your fooling yourself if you dont think there are kids with felony convictions attending Naperville schools) sue to remove them. The kid that looked at my kid funny, sue to remove them. The kid is no longer friends with mine, sue to remove them. The mean girls, sue to remove them. Where does it stop? While I dont like the idea of the kid being in the school I also dont like the idea of short circuiting the legal process. Everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty. The process takes time and everything will eventually work itself out. As for those of you who have mentioned the right to a quick trial, that is a right guaranteed the defendant, not the prosecution. The defendant has a right to request a quick trial if they so choose. If the defendant chooses not to request the quick trial you must wait for the court system to work through your case.

This whole thing makes me sick. A couple of kids "rights" are be put in front of the rights of the thousands of kids at these 2 schools. The word in the Lincoln area is that several groups have formed and have consulted with lawyers. I can't understand what the parents of the perps. are doing? How is it better to let these kids remain in an environment where everyone is talking about them, they are monitored every second (at least at Lincoln) and where they have no chance of continuing school in a normal way. Both districts should be doing everything they can to convince these parents to do the right thing for these offenders. Who knows when the court date is?

Good points and links on March 15th @ 3:55 pm.. The "London Broil" was worth waiting for.

Rasmus and Piehl kissed MM's ring on TV huh ? they're out!

I respect Vickers for calling out MM but me thinks she's just playing politics again. Why didn't she come out sooner to ask for his resignation? Because she waited (as usual) to see which way the wind was blowing before she picked a side. She obviously must have read her mail. She did the same thing on many Metea votes. She was cleverly absent or abstained from some very "telling" votes during the process. Then she wade in at the end.
That's not the kind of leadership I'm looking for! How about you?

Have we heard her view on the Gregory issue????? I haven't. It would appear it's not contrary to DD's or MM's or the rest of the board. Perhaps she's out in her yard with a wet finger in the air !!!
What a tragedy this is for the families involved and what another black eye this is for our board and our schools. Here's a couple questions I have not seen asked or answered, first, at which house did this occur? perps or victims or somewhere else? Second, where were the parent(s)???

"Both Districts 203 and 204 would be within their right to move the perps to an alternative setting. Both of these boys are causing significant disruption to the learning environment."

Actually they are not. They can transfer them between regular schools but until the courts decide their guilt/innocence they can not take them out of the normal classrooms. Just moving them around between normal schools just pushes the problem to another school.

"Sorry anon10, both district admins. need to grow a set and stop making accomodations to suit 2 kids extraordinary needs while taking away from the 900+ other kids in these buildings."

Unfortunately they cant do this. Its the law. They can try, but then they would face legal action. Once that happens the parents will be screaming that the district is wasting money because they violated the law.

Both Districts 203 and 204 would be within their right to move the perps to an alternative setting. Both of these boys are causing significant disruption to the learning environment. The boy at Lincoln is escorted at all times...even to the bathroom. It a ridiculous distraction to the rest of the students. Sorry anon10, both district admins. need to grow a set and stop making accomodations to suit 2 kids extraordinary needs while taking away from the 900+ other kids in these buildings. They have rights too. This is a no-brainer. At least I feel that as soon as the court date comes to pass (and these 2 are OBVIOUSLY guilty) this kid will be out of 203. Unfortunately, I think 204 parents will continue to suffer with a completely inept board/administration.

Ladies & gentlemen, trying to talk sense to Anon 10 is a waste of our time and energy. We (me too) only continue to encourage him (or her) by engaging in his rants. I know it's difficult to ignore "the noise" and it's important to dispel false assertions but like a spoiled child, he enjoys the attention, whether the reward is negative or positive. Let your votes do the talking on April 7th by first and foremost not re-electing any incumbents and secondly by doing our due diligence to research and choose from the remaining candidates.

Get on your neighbors (young & old), your friends, your kids friends parents etc. to get out and vote. These SB elections are determined by hundreds rather than thousands of votes because very few people come out to vote at non-presidential elections even though their effect hits much closer to home. Go back to Greg Forrest's post on March 11 at 8:21 pm....the difference between in & out (Alka T & Michelle D)last election was 407 votes.... I've enjoyed chatting with most of you and thanks to the host, the Naperville SUN. It has been both informative and entertaining.

The district's own lawyer said that the district already had the authority to relocate the accused to another school, but has not done so. This would have given the victim instant relief and preserved the right to a free and appropriate education for the accused.

ANON 10: I and others grow tired of bantering back and forth with you defending your beloved SD on the issue of whether they can restrict the two sex offenders from school premises. I say they can because they dissrupt the learning enviornment by their presence and you say they cannot because to do so would violate some unspecified law you believe exists. So explain for us your legal reasoning with appropriate citations. The fact is you cannot because there is no statutue that would be violated. Thus the impetous for Sengers legislative initiative. Even the SD has never cited precedent or specific statutory reasons why they decided to allow these predators back to school. One of your favorite posts of mine is where you try to find out if the vicitm was beaten or merely shoved the next day at the school. As if the former would not be ok but the latter would. You simply continue to assert that the SD legal advise is they cannot prevent accused criminals (and that is what these two accused felons are) be they violent criminals or misdemeanor criminals from school grounds. Many of us belive the SD is merely disinclined to defend a suit that they anticipate would be filed against them. Many of us say file the sult and lets get it before a judge. Lets spend legal $ defending safety and security in the schools rather than ill fated attempts for example at placing a school on property the school system 1) does not own, 2) does not want to pay what it is worth and 3) where many people do not belive it belongs because it is currently a commercial retail zone. Or spending money defending a suit because they object to a shirt a student is wearing on everybody is gay day. Or spending tens of thousands of dollars to hire a lobbyist. And that is just the begining of what the school district squanders my tax money on. You defend them while I and many others will continue to hold them accountable when they make what we consider to be poor decisions either in the policy arena or when they are bad mouthing the opposition as they did and as MM did in this matter.

Dear Sun,

Happy you found and posted, but I repreint here because it was buried in the past, so unlikely to be seen. I will tell my friends about the error (over zealous spam filtering at SUN). This information below is still valid even today.

By London Calling on March 10, 2009 12:12 AM
Here is a link to another district's SB member having to resign the board over an incident using inappropriate language

http://www.studentsfirst.us/news/contentview.asp?c=147600

Here s link to Sunday Naperville Sun editorial asking for Metzger's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466088,6_4_NA08_EDITORIAL_S1.article

Here is link to article referring to sitting SB member Vickers asking for MM's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1468614,6_NA9_Board-member-calls-for-Metzger-quit.article

Here is a link to the latest petition going around asking for MM's resignation from Indian Prairie School District 204

http://www.petitiononline.com/IPSD204a/petition.html

I understand another petition is being drafted asking for resignation of all remaining SB members (x-Vickers) and Superintendent Daeschner - especially after the latest revelations including these following quotes demonstrating that the Superintendent and the SB could have acted even without a new law to protect the 11 year old victim who was also attacked on campus (looks to me like their hands were not tied):

Sun Newspaper 3/9/09

Indeed, in his Feb. 23 presentation to the District 204 board, Canna made it more than clear that the board can assign students to whichever school it sees fit.

"As long as that decision is not arbitrary in nature, the administration would have the right to do that," Canna said. "It could be in connection to a discipline situation, it could be in connection with a variety of other situations."

That said, Canna stressed that it is Daeschner, his staff, and the school board who must determine if reassigning a student is a good idea.

Daeschner outlined his thoughts in a Feb. 25 e-mail to residents:

"If a student is not in a safe environment, or a request is made by the family, a student could be moved to another school within the district," he said. "...A forced move to one of our other schools is an option"

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466978,6_1_NA09_GREGORY_S1.article

Please note an additional battery charge has been filed against the alleged attacker for the on-campus incident.

Please also note that Susan Rasmus (candidate for SB) and Cathy Piehl (current SB member and candidate for SB election on 4/7/09), both id not feel Metzger should resign from the SB and gave supporting comments in the televised candidate forum.

Thanks SUN

I didn't intend to bother here any more, but I made the mistake of looking ...

Coach Koz said ... "As for Anon 10, none of his questions (or answers) are simple. He's a typical empty nester whose kids reaped the benefits of WVHS when it was new and now begrudges some of the rest of us later arrivals."

I have kids over a range of ages and am not an empty nester. I still have kids in WVHS. And I thought "typical empty nesters" complain about school taxes, and I don't remember doing that once here (though I am no happier about my "fair share" of taxes than anyone else). It never ceases to amaze how people want to categorize motives here rather than address matters directly. Someone said I have a thing for Jeanette Clark. I guess I should ask her critics if they are bitter ex's of hers. That's much more informative on issues than things like ... say ... facts.

Anyway, just to address the difficulty of my questions, using the most recent questions as examples of what you say are too tough to answer:

"1. Do you agree that the board would violate the law to expel the Gregory perpetrator at this point in time?" Is it difficult for YOU to know what YOU think, Koz?

"2. If your answer is yes, can you name a single current board member or any person now running for the school board who has stated that they would violate the law in order to expel that kid if that is what it takes? If your answer is yes, please name them for me. If your answer is no, then why is everyone here so abusive to current board members over this?" YOU don't know if YOU can name such a board member or candidate, Koz? (I will admit that the last question [if no one would violate the law, why are you so abusive of the board for not doing so?] is a tough one. Maybe I shouldn't have asked that one - making it so obvious where the answers to the easy questions were leading made them hard to answer all of a sudden, didn't it?)

Those are just the latest two examples of my supposedly unanswerable questions. You're at least smart enough to know what YOU think and know, aren't you, Koz? Maybe you should let your wife handle your checkbook after all, Koz.

Isn't it ironic that questions relating to matters important to forming a decision on an issue are too tough for some people to answer, and yet those same people feel that their opinion is so obviouly the right one that those who don't agree with them should be abused?

?western springs?

Original Joe you're mostly right...the Metea project was Howie's swan song....and where is the pitchman now? I remember looking at the web-site and "sales brochures" (put out with our tax dollars) of the consulting firm the board hired pitching the 2nd Metea referendum....their specialty...."how to get a 2nd ref. passed after the first one failed." Obviously the point is mute now, Metea is going up and yes it will increase our tax dollars but it will also maintain the areas rep for good schools, which help maintain property values.

As for Anon 10, none of his questions (or answers) are simple. He's a typical empty nester whose kids reaped the benefits of WVHS when it was new and now begrudges some of the rest of us later arrivals. Should I get on a blog of my former school districts in Plainfield and say, "hey Plainfield South, North and East, I helped pay for your schools...you owe me." Maybe I should barge into one of their new firehouses and demand a free lunch. He acts as though he was doing us all a favor for paying his taxes. Don't go away mad....just go away!

As for the Gregory case...it's just another straw on the camel's back publicly displaying an inept school board. I hope most voters now have woken up to the fact some new blood is needed over there.
In my opinion, once the rape case spilled over to the school with the subsequent assault and/or battery, on top of that the pictures distributed to other class mates....the board had enough to suspend pending trial the 2nd perp in this case. But the fact they didn't have a policy already in place to cover this, again, shows how dysfunctional our SB is.

It reminds me of the Dems trying to force out Burris when they failed to hammer out an SOP the year before when they knew Obama's seat might be opening up. Bad judgement, bad politics, personal agendas, corruption....it's here, there and unfortunately almost everywhere!

To: No longer Care

You'll care when the bill hits your real estate taxes. The district now has a mountain of debt that is going to put the screw job to the residents. This is debt that didn't have to be there as there were plenty of alternatives each systematically 'dismissed' via split-shift scares and inflated enrollment numbers. According to the 2006 spiel for the referendum we should have been on split shifts this year because the enrollment was so huge. Which shift does your area attend, first or second? Notice how we don't have a 3rd high school taking kids this year yet we are not on split shifts like they said we would be.

The 3000 number for the main WV campus is based on an 80% utilization that the district says is 'ideal'. That means there's a decent amount of wiggle room which is all the bubble needs to work its way through the system without needing to spend 150 million bucks. As the economy continues to take a dive and things pinch, make sure you thank the district properly for their part in it when it was well known it didn't have to go that way; but as I already said, some did whatever it took to make sure it ended up that way. Enjoy your 2 semiannual mailings from the county going forward. I'm sure people will be anxious to pony up even more tax money via an operating referendum which is also coming sooner than you think.

Oops!! Anonymous on March 14, 2009 10:33 PM was me.

Dr. Phil - thanks for once again deflecting and not answering my simple questions. You've made my point for me. I've asked enough times that further writing on this would be pointless.

Funny, no one is complaining here about Gregory any more. Maybe someone actually was listening and decided to take a deep breath and let things work themselves out there. I hope so. I'll leave you all to whatever remaining rants you want to make to each other.

My work here, to the extent possible, is done. :-) (I think if the Sun gets any advertising dollars or something from all we've written here, I should get a cut though.)

Anon 10: You're right, this has nothing to do with Gregory, but it seems that whenever anything happens in the south end of the district, it gets lumped into the "there go the elitists whining again" category, and then the Metea issue pops up. And you can tell from the queries about boundaries that the school board candidates have been fielding that this issue is far from resolved for a lot of folks. I think our district is going to be dealing with the residuals of this for quite some time.

I do have to clarify, however, that the Board DID get NV and the gold campuses built on the premise of avoiding a third high school. I don't THINK this was said, it was. I don't intend this to sound rude, but just because you missed something doesn't mean it didn't happen. This was discussed on this very blog during the Metea controversy and confirmed by others who have a history here. It may be in the archives still, who knows. But voters were told that if they approved the ref for a HS the size and scope and cost of Neuqua they would never need to fund another. Like bite the bullet now and be done with it. And avoiding the cost of building a third 204 HS was the reason for converting middle schools to high school freshman campuses later, and Howie Crouse sold it this way. Look into it; I'm sure it's in print somewhere. Their projections took the undeveloped land into consideration; it was their job to know this. They were way off. Twice.

And the people who were moved out of the Neuqua catchment area did not feel their children were "entitled" to the better school. This is what is still routinely circulated by people who weren't directly involved in the meetings with the school board. They made this assumption from what they read and heard from others.

You need to understand that hundreds of people chose to buy a home and settle their families here based not only on the house, but the amenities offered in the surrounding area. Neuqua became one of those amenities. You may not like hearing NV scores are consistently higher than WV, or that it has an enviable volunteer and fund-raising base. Dislike it, dispute it or rationalize it any way you want, it doesn't change the reality. It is what it is. And Neuqua was a big factor in why people chose to live here rather than somewhere else in 204. And then that "factor" was taken away. OF COURSE people are going to be upset. Anyone who says otherwise is not being honest. And it took a lot of high talkin' by the school board before we accepted that we had to move to Metea at the BB site. And then THAT was taken away, and we end up being bussed six miles away outside of Naperville, with Neuqua sitting right there in our backyards, everyday. Anyone who insists this would be alright with them is either moronic, or disingenuous, or both.

I don't have an opinion about Jeanette Clark one way or the other, so I'm not bashing or defending her. All I know is that I didn't realize there was a large disparity between NVs and WVs volunteerism and fund-raising base until I heard it from her at a boundary meeting. She is the one who wanted to redraw the boundaries in such a way as to redistribute some of that to Waubonsie. If you weren't at the meetings where this was debated, you'd have no way of knowing. A lot of this stuff never made the papers.

Of course this didn't go over well, no one wants to be a pawn in a social engineering plan. But this is what she wanted to do to make the schools more equal. The school board didn't go for it, either. But as it turns out, Jeanette is getting exactly what she wanted. Those neighborhoods and their volunteering, soccer moming, fund-raising folks will now be volunteering and fund-raising for Waubonsie. Disparage us all you want, Jeanette Clark thought we were a pretty hot commodity.

As for your "overriding rants", as you call them, feel free anytime. I really love a good rant. And I really enjoy reading yours!

Anon 10 you finally revealed enough of yourself this time to make a diagnosis.....your 4:02pm post tells me you have or had a closet crush on Jeanette and a bad case of "green" envy of NVHS. You're still stinging after hearing negative remarks about your kids school (WVHS) during the last referendum and you're projecting anger on us.

Allow me address your latest (4) run-on-rants:

#1) Thanks for paying your taxes, perhaps you'd like a soccer medal.
#2) Our high achieving Asian students are not for sale or trade.
#3) So your telling me all my kids need to do is sit at a new desk and read from a new book and they'll be smarter. Bloody genius why didn't I think of that, here all along I was told it was the bricks in the building that made those test scores higher.....how about the "newer", younger, less experienced teachers at NVHS.....oops....there I go again blowing up another one of your wacky theorys.
#4) huh??? make that double huh???

Oh, Original Joe. Talk about revisionist history. Yeah, they stuffed 3600 into WVHS. By partioning off sections of the auditorium for individual classes. By scheduling classes in hallways. I don't think anyone who endured that would want to see it on a regular basis. 3000 students in WVHS is busting at the seams. It's not a good learning environment.

At this point, I no longer care since my kids are out of the schools. Put 3600 in WVHS and 5000 in NVHS if it makes you happy. It's terrible for the students. But the parents will be happy. And the kids who care about the name of their school rather than the quality of the learning environment will be happy.

This great Frontier Campus isn't really a campus. It's one building that caters to at most 1% of the high school students in the district.

TO: Anonymous 10

The projections were 8600 by the citizens committees. District projections within the past year was 8800. You can go FOIA the audio tapes of those meetings and verify that as well as the enrollment projections from March 2008. Right after the max year it drops quite a bit, so there is no sustained max number which would take WVHS back to your 3000 level. So that was chewed on and spit back out.

Before NVHS opened, WVHS had more kids than 3600 and through some miracle, everyone made it through just fine and OK. This was before Frontier Campus and Online Classes were around to relieve even more pressure.

Again, please do some homework on your own before just repeating what you heard.

Original Joe, don't bother writing to me any more with broad generalized "facts" and "truths". Since you know the early groups of volunteers were accurate on population numbers, that must mean that you know what those numbers were. Just for the record, let us have them now (and let us know how we can know that they are not hindsight reconstructions). Nothing against you personally, but I see so much stuff written here as fact which I know is crap, and which common sense says is crap, that only fools would believe broad generalizations like yours about those genius amateur population projection volunteers. I know it is human nature, but I can't help but believe that you never looked and studied those projections and then later studied them to determine their accuracy, but rather are stating as "fact" the "truth" that you heard (and want to believe) that they were correct.. While what you say might be true (if I can even tell what you are specifically saying), a broken clock is right twice a day and people's broad generalizations here have not been shown to be more reliable than that.

As to 3000/3600, I had understood that 3000 was the maximum ideal size, and that 3600 could be squeezed in if absolutely required but that the education actually would decrease in quality at that level because of class sizes, locations where some classes would have to be had, etc. Short term, 3600 was the max. Long term, at least as far as I was concerned if I cared about the quality of the education of the kids there, it should be 3000. Chew on that.

Enjoy your weekend too.

Thanks for your comments, What The? If people were specific here like you, I would not get so frustrated.

I do not recall being promised there would be no need for more high school space ever. If they said that, perhaps they were hoping that projections going out far enough would not require it, but at the time Neuqua was being built there was a lot of unused land yet to be built on and certainly if the projections at the time of the Neuqua referendum were good as gold forever there would not have been need to update them at the time of the Metea referendum. Anyway, I believe that you think you heard that then, What The? - I would have liked to have been told that then too, but I don't recall that I was.

Also, I remember seeing Jeanette Clark on tv at Naperville City Council meetings many many times over many years fighting on behalf of the school district as builders constantly came in with rezoning requests to build units which would generate more students. Before she got on the school board, it seemed like the city was pretty much rubber stamping any zoning request like that (and that 204 was even docilely going along), but it was clear that she was the builders' and Bill Brestel's (their attorney) archenemy during that time and I recall she got a lot of changes stopped or offset to try to keep student numbers (and school taxes) down. I think she was also heavily involved in the whole Sector G planning, again to keep student generation numbers (and taxes) down. So it is more than a little ironic that people now seem so willing to villify her because so much school space seems to be required.

Regarding the Metea boundaries, I know what you are saying, What The?, and while I will not begrudge anyone their own desires, I would just say that desires and entitlement are different. As to some people's feelings about moving from Neuqua to Waubonsie, I have a few reactions:

1. I've lived here a long time, since long before Neuqua. My property taxes paid for WV, have been paying for NV, will pay for MV too even though my kids have always been and always will be WV students. If someone moved here after NV was built, paid taxes for a couple of years and then tells me that THEY are entitled to the "good school", well ... I hope you would not begrudge me thinking that is a bunch of crap. I know a lot of people who have bought homes with open fields behind them because they liked that open feeling, but that does not mean that the owner of the field is required to keep it open for them as circumstances change.

2. Regarding Neuqua being "a state-of-the-art facility whose students routinely tested higher than Waubonsie's" - again, there are a lot of us paying taxes to build Neuqua whose kids go to other schools, so even if that school were "better", you're just crying me a river to say that your kids are entitled to go to a better school than mine and I have to pay for your school too.

3. As to property values, I always felt the people complaining about that were just cutting their own throats. When their kids get to WV, it will be a fine school - a great school - and whenever those people screeched about it, it sounded to me like a negotiation in which the seller kept saying "What I'm selling you is not as valuable as you think it is." All they have to do was to work with the schools to make sure they were all given equal resources for their kids, and they would be and do great - as well as they would at NV. I did raise that issue once with an administrator, and was told something which should have been obvious but still was eye opening to me. When they get new computers, new desks, new textbooks, new anything, they replace the oldest. So while Neuqua for a while naturally had the newest stuff, as time cycled through, the first computers being replaced were the oldest which were the ones at WV, so for a period of time WV would have the newest computers, or the newest math textbooks, etc. The point is, they are all fine at both schools.

Beyond that, though, while Neuqua was newer and shinier, with some structural advantages which newer places always have, I never really thought that the education was better one place than another. You know as well as I do that the testing differences were largely demographic types of things (better home support for the students being no small matter). And if the argument carried over to wanting your kid to go to school with a better class of students, putting all the elitist and racist comments aside, again I think that those who believed that and felt they were entitled to that and my kids weren't - cry me a river. If it's really that important to them, send them to a private school.

4. As to Neuqua having "a large and profitable volunteer base which raised money for a lot of extras for the students", it would seem to me that if you moved to a different school, then that base would be at the new school too. If YOUR move would have caused you to move away from the profitable base residing elsewhere, again - cry me a river about someone else rather than you being able to suckle off the teat of that profitable base.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughtful comments, What The?, even if I don't draw the same conclusions from them that you do. Back to my overriding rant, if it is reasonable for me to feel the way I do from my perspective, I do not think it is insult-worthy for the school board to maybe come down on my side of things every once in a while.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Gregory though.

Anonymous 10,

District 204 revisionist history. More facts were known at the time and those that dared speak up with the truth were vilified as being anti-kid and anti-district. It's only 20/20 hindsight for those that did not do their homework back then and instead only relied upon the Administration and School Board's spun versions of 'the facts. The fact is the early groups (of volunteers) were accurate on the population numbers but some were upset because they would not get their shiny new high school if those numbers were true, so new numbers were bought and paid for to justify the endeavor. Before you cry BS, you should go back and do your homework. You should also FOIA the quote for the NV expansion that Howie Crouse had which also included expansion of hallways and common areas. It's not a myth or 'wishful thinking'. For a bite to nibble on regarding spun version of the facts, ask yourself why WVHS 100% capacity went from being approximately 3600 for the main building down to 3000 for the main building with no change in building size of internal configuration.

Enjoy your weekend.

Dr. Phil:

"Although he angered the soccer moms with his comments and they probably have triangulated his coordinates by now and have his cul-de-sac surrounded with their minivans"

Great line! LOL

By the way, Dr. Phil. I get the difference between "attaboy for making the effort", "thanks for what you accomplished (even though I wish you had done more)", and "you are [to use a few used here] a 'cowardly' 'stupid' 'gutless' 'incompetent' 'arrogant' 'immoral' 'lying' 'heartless' 'fool' (because I didn't get what I wanted)."

Do you?

Anon 10:

Saying:

"As I recall, they did a poll after the first referendum and one of the big reasons that poll found for the "no" votes the first time was that people wanted to know boundaries before they would approve it."

is much different from:

"Loud self-interested groups of parents (heard of that in 204?) who were worried that their kid would not go to the right school, not whether there should be such a school, were largely responsible for the referendum failing the first time around."

If you've been around a long time, then you should know that the School Board got the referendum for Neuqua passed by guaranteeing the residents of 204 that if NV was built, the district would never need another high school. It was to be a mega school, built to handle the projected growth of the rest of the district. Then came converting middle schools to freshman centers. The School Board--Howie Crouse, in particular--said if we spent the money needed to do this, 204 would not need another high school. Then shortly after this was done, BAM!, here came a referendum to build another high school. Many people voted no on the first Metea ref--and I was one of them--because they felt the district was jerking the taxpayers around, not really knowing what they were doing. In every instance up to this point, their projections had been wrong, and every time they would come back to the taxpayers with another plan that needed funding. Enough already!

Add to this the fact that in the intervening years huge subdivisions had sprung up north and west of Neuqua and people had moved into those areas based on the school board's previous assurances that a third high school would not be needed. These folks were very aware, and rightly so, that their property values were to a degree tied to Neuqua. It had proved to be a state-of-the-art facility whose students routinely tested higher than Waubonsie's. Plus, it had a large and profitable volunteer base which raised money for a lot of extras for the students. OF COURSE these people wanted to know how a new high school would effect them. They were very happy where they were and did not want to move, not even to Metea when it was slated to be built on the BB parcel. This is different from saying:

"The boundary process was done before the second referendum because so many people were threatening to vote against it again unless their kids got to go to their school?"

The boundary process was negotiated before the fact because many people had to be convinced to leave Neuqua. My neighborhood was one of them. In the end, MANY KIDS DID NOT GET TO GO TO THEIR SCHOOL, but the ref passed anyway because obviously a lot of those LOUD, SELF-INTERESTED parents became convinced the district needed it.

What I have objected to all along is the spin put on these events and the language used by those who were not directly involved with the school board on this issue; namely, those who were not in the target group whose votes were needed to pass the ref. A lot of time was spent at the boundary meetings discussing whether a third high school was needed in the first place. The board members admitting that their growth projections had been inaccurate twice before did not do much to reassure a lot of us, but the Board was determined to build Metea come hell or high water; their mission at that point was just to do what they needed to do to get us on board.

So if you want to give the School Board a break on the Metea mess, then fine. But don't dump the responsibility for it on the voters when you do. All along, we were acting in good faith on the information that was presented to us. And that information came from our School Board.

Dr. Phil - The obtuseness is yours, not mine. I have written repeatedly and at length about the Gregory situation, and have written almost books raising questions about the factual basis of the extreme opinions on that matter, and yet no one answers them, including you or Koz. Rather you obfuscate.

Ask what the details are of what did and didn't happen in the Gregory situation, and all that is said in return is screeching about NOTHING having been done. Ask again, and all that is said is that the board members are cowards and should have done something different. Ask what that is, and I hear about how Metea was mishandled.

In short, I've asked repeatedly to be enlightened, not merely by the fact that some parents have opinions which favors their desires, but by facts which might give greater support to sway me to their opinion. But no one ever answers, Dr. Phil. I don't see how I can take that to mean anything other than that if you are forced to actually say the basis for your extreme opinions and insults to the school administrators and board members, it will be shown that you don't know and/or don't care.

Let me try just a couple of simple questions on one subject, questions which I asked courageous ANONYMOUS but she didn't answer either. I'll start with this and let's see where we go from there:

1. Do you agree that the board would violate the law to expel the Gregory perpetrator at this point in time? Yes or no. It's a simple question. If your answer is no, then we can talk about that.

2. If your answer is yes, can you name a single current board member or any person now running for the school board who has stated that they would violate the law in order to expel that kid if that is what it takes? If your answer is yes, please name them for me. If your answer is no, then why is everyone here so abusive to current board members over this?

If you can't answer even those questions, then don't waste my time writing to me here any more.

NOTE to the Naperville Sun Editor - you should change the title of this section to "Forum for Narcisistic 204 Parents to Complain About Not Getting Their Selfish Way on Some Issue."

Anon 10 you are so obtuse.... We buy you books and buy you books and all you do is eat the pages. Your blind support of the board makes me think you are a SB member, were a board member or are the illegitimate offspring of one. Coach Koz's analogy of "effort over accomplishment" in the sports world to that of your continued "attaboys" to the board was interesting. I got it....you didn't. Although he angered the soccer moms with his comments and they probably have triangulated his coordinates by now and have his cul-de-sac surrounded with their minivans, he raises a valid point. Why should we reward such incompetence with our votes. According to your illogical position I guess we should thank former Governor Blago for his time & effort too!

"Mythical piles", "grassy knolls" .......I think it's medication time again nurse Wratchett!

Original Joe -

At the time, it seemed to me that the different "numbers" of "no" people were wishful thinking rather than best estimates. Also, there were little things I kept hearing from the "no" side which would then be shown to be fantasy which caused me to think they could not be believed. One fantasy in particular I remember which spread like wildfire was something about mythical piles already having been laid which could be used to expand Neuqua - "no" people were believing it because they wanted to believe it, even though it wasn't true, really like a lot of the crap you would find in JFK conspiracy things. I heard all the "shift this school, build this one smaller school, move that, etc." alternative ideas too, but in the end it seemed to me that to believe those shifting alternatives would have required me to accept someone's wish as reality. Maybe the wish will turn out to become reality, but the decision by the school board and by voters like me had to be made without the benefit of hindsight.

The school board was given a set of numbers generated by "experts" - certainly more expert than them and more expert than me and probably you - and while experts are not always right and you can certainly skeptically review the numbers, the "no" people's rejection of them seemed to be based more on wishful thinking than any basis I found believable. While the grassy knoll people here can and probably will presume that the school board's numbers were intentionally and dishonestly cooked for nefarious reasons, I don't buy that. They took far more grief for proposing the third high school than they would have had they not. So they made a judgment based on the best information they had at the time, and I will not fault them for that (and I certainly will not villify them for that - if you had been on the board [and I never would be because I have no desire to be villified all the time] and HAD to make a decision based on what they were told, can you say for sure that you would have made a different one?)

Anyway, I don't want to really argue about Metea here as it is a tangential point and will serve no purpose at this time in any event - only time will tell what was right. Still, while criticism is inevitable, too much is written here which is ignorantly spiteful and crosses a line. I've been around a long time and I remember a lot of things which boards and councils and members of each have done, including MM and JC. Over that time, a lot of good people have come and gone from this kind of work (e.g., 5 of the 7 board members on the board at the time of the last election are not there), and I know that many of them left because they got burned out on the crap they had to take for trying to help the community. While I have disagreed with my share of decisions, I would NEVER discount the EFFORT or the ACCOMPLISHMENTS (for you Koz) which they should be thanked for rather than villified. To every one of them, I would say "thank you" and, if I disagreed with something, I would say I disagreed with them. I would not however villify them and call them any of the names so freely thrown around here by some, and I certainly would not do so without really caring whether I knew the truth of what I was talking about. My posts have been directed to those who would.

Glock - I think it was your tying of "junior high school students sodomizing their peers" with Englewood which was the reason for someone's elitist, racist comment.

What The -

Of course these are unknowable facts, but based on all I know I believe my opinion as to what those facts are is correct on points 2 and 3. As I recall, they did a poll after the first referendum and one of the big reasons that poll found for the "no" votes the first time was that people wanted to know boundaries before they would approve it. The only thing that changed when the same referendum passed the second time was that boundaries were set. Votes in favor of the boundaries were much higher in White Eagle and Tall Grass than they had been in the first referendum, not coincidentally (in my opinion) because the boundaries said their kids would not go to Waubonsie.

Of course, different people have different reasons for how they vote, and certainly not all "no" votes in both referendums were boundary related as Original Joe points out, but there was a big shift from "no" to "yes" in the second referendum when the only thing which had changed was knowing where your kid would go, and that shift was more than enough to make the difference between the first and second referendums.

Anonymous 10,

Go ahead and flog Jeannette Clark but she is nothing more than a washed up, lame duck with just days left in office. Why in world the people of this district ever elected, much less re-elected someone as ill tempered and ill suited and unqualified to run for this office is beyond logic.

True any half wit can circulate a petition and get their name on the ballot. Until voters start taking the time to understand the education, experience, and qualifications of people seeking elected office we will continue to put the education of our children in the hands incompetent fools.

Well we elected a fool and she acted like a fool so I guess we got exactly what we wanted. Now the more important question is do we want another fool to replace her?

Signing off for good due to Sun not posting my stuff. Not sure what the problem was with 3 out of 4 links to Sun articles with little commentary. That said, I have over 25 people who will be canceling their Sun newspapers over this as well. I have no idea what the problem was, but it seems unfair given the much more vile stuff posted by many others. A backwater newspaper anyway.

Anonymous 3/12/09 10:53pm. LMAO. Wanting to live in a crime free community where students are not sexually or otherwise abused on or off school grounds is not elitism or racism, its survivalism. Thats why when I carry, its Glock PERFECTION. Its not for you a--hat.

Anonymous 10: Sorry to butt in here, but that's the nature of blogs. I was very involved throughout the Metea process. The answers to your questions are:

1) Yes
2) No
3) No
4) Yes
5) Yes

The board really is largely to blame for that mess, and the damages that we will all have to pay through our taxes to BB is still in litigation. The board made many promises it was in no position to guarantee and wrongly assumed the outcome of too many variables. The residents certainly aren't to blame. This was the Board's project, not their's.

That doesn't mean the Board hasn't made other fine decisions for the district over the years. They probably have, this isn't a desirable school district entirely by accident. Unfortunately, Metea was the biggest and most visible. That's what people remember.

Anonymous 10,

I have liked reading your posts thus far, but must point out that to really get to the bottom of the whole third high school one needs to go back farther to the Freshman Centers which were done to alleviate the crowding and they serve(d) their purposes well. The only thing the district needed was 1 more middle school and approximately 700 seats added onto NVHS which the district had a quote for approximately $12 million dollars and it also fixed the common space / hallway issues that were reported.

Those upgrades to NVHS and a less costly middle school could have been plopped on the 25 acres at the BB property the district still owns today for a lot less than 146 million dollars. There existed the possibility to also upgrade an elementary school to a middle school which again would have been far less costly than where we are today.

Who pushed the 3rd High School agenda with inflated (and known to be inflated at the time) NIU population numbers? Was it those 'selfish parents' who came up with the idea and threw out the work of the citizen committees up to that point?

When you watch your real estate tax bill going forward, ponder that question.

Thomas - I've been here longer than you, have coached kids through the full range of ages, and my experience has been the same as yours. I think Coach Koz has an opinion which he will just shoehorn into fitting any situation. My experience is also that facts are not really as important here as strongly held (though ignorantly based) opinions.

Coach Koz - It is ironic how parents like you who are irate here about their issue at Gregory want to also completely blame the school board for all the problems with Metea. Not to let facts get in the way of a good conclusion, but isn't it correct that:

1) The school district had an agreement to buy the B-B property at a reasonable price and would and could have done so had the initial referendum passed?

2) Loud self-interested groups of parents (heard of that in 204?) who were worried that their kid would not go to the right school, not whether there should be such a school, were largely responsible for the referendum failing the first time around?

3) The boundary process was done before the second referendum because so many people were threatening to vote against it again unless their kids got to go to their school?

4) By the time that process ended, the agreement to buy the B-B property had run out?

5) When the referendum did pass, B-B was demanding an incredibly higher amount for the property than they had agreed to just a couple of years earlier?

I guess you could blame it all on the school board, but doing so is to continually deny reality here. But for selfish parents with their own personal agendas, none of the problems and actions you complain about would have even been necessary. When those selfish "boundary voters" threw a monkey wrench into the works, it seemed like the board was doing the best it could to adapt to the situation. Give them credit for finding another site at a reasonable price when faced with those circumstances. As it turned out, they were probably outlawyered, but I would blame the lawywers and not the board. But without knowing more deails, I wouldn't villify the lawyers here either.

But you're right, Koz. During MM and JC's 16 and 18 years on the board, the district has added 2 high schools, I don't know how many new middle and elementary schools, grown from 15,000 (?) students to 30,000+, educated probably over 100,000 students with no abnormal amount of complaints that I've heard, the district has a good reputation for providing a good education, and since you don't like how the Metea situation evolved, they have ACCOMPLISHED nothing, right? NOTHING!!! It was all just effort, not accomplishment.

(Btw, I think I must have heard you on the radio after the NIU shooting, Koz. Was it you who called in to Jesse Rogers and explained that very night when no one yet knew what happened that the reason for the killings was that kids are given trophies even if they don't finish first?)

It's amazing how people seem to think that the couple of things that they personally care about is all that is being accomplished.

Some of the rest of what you write I don't even get - I'm familiar with the concept of billable hours, and I have no idea how someone can increase that by spending a lot of their finite amount of time doing work which is not billable. It's only clever by half to use Metzger's inappropriate email as the basis for any conclusion you wish to make, but while you can say that you now "know what is acceptable discussion behind closed doors", you know that is not true. Vickers has been pretty vocal, and I haven't heard her saying this goes on all the time - or has ever gone on before.

(As another aside - Can I venture a guess? You're from White Eagle or Tall Grass. You love Glawe, who came onto the board primarily to keep White Eagle at Neuqua and then left after less than a term, and you don't like the Metea situation because when the Metea location changed, boundaries changed too.)

Anyway, I would say that your belief that there have been no accomplishments in 16-18 years at our schools for which anyone should say "thanks" to either MM or JC is typical myopic (or narcisistic) ignorance at this site. If nothing else, if you liked Neuqua for your kids, they are the only two board members still around when that got done and maybe you could thank them for that. Or do you think these people owed you their time to do everything you needed to have done?

Btw, I still have my sense of humor, but I really find nothing funny HERE. Seeing what people write here is just sad.

Coach Koz on March 13, 2009 2:20 PM
This concept of rewarding effort over accomplishment is becoming a national epidemic esp. here in Naperville. It's the reason everybody's kid gets a trophy on their youth soccer team, it's the reason cheerleading squads have 30 members now instead of eight, the reason some parents were upset the NV varsity football team started to cut their roster from 115+ to a reasonable 80-85.

_______________

Hey "coach". I'm not sure what you coach, but in the youth leagues I've coached in each "participant" gets a medal that says nothing other than "participant". I've coached for 3 years and I have never been to a meeting, or event where the goal was to simply reward effort over accomplishment. My experience is with Wheatland and the Naperville Park district so your experience may be different. If you want to teach your 6 year old that losing a soccer game 5-0 on a cold, windy, muddy and rainy day is tantamount to failing go right ahead. I think I'd rather tell them they "played well and gave it their all, and while you didn't win the game I'm proud of your effort". Keep in mind the kid is SIX! One of the biggest obstacles at this age is simply keeping shoes tied.

Baseball and basketball leagues are the same (at least for my 6 and 8 year olds). My kids proudly display their little medals and at this age we simply want to expose them to a variety of sports. The kids know the score, and if we lose we don't sugar coat anything - it's part of life. If our kids get ahead of the other team we also make sure they are good winners as well. League records are not kept so there isn't even a first place trophy to give.

As the kids get older (8,9,10+) they have an opportunity to try out for a competitive league where scores and records are kept and posted. And the winners of these leagues receive first place trophies. Mine will probably go this route, and at this age will begin learning tougher lessons about winning and losing which is also a part of sports that I think is important.

My kids get grades in school (A,B,C etc.) and take part in events like the pinewood derby, art contests, and music recitals where Achievent is rewarded and winners are recognized. I've heard similar comments like yours before (rewarding effort over achievement), and in my 15 years in Naperville just haven't seen it?

Your ignorance almost makes me laugh, courageous ANONYMOUS. It's almost sad how you finally get around to addressing something which is an actual fact, albeit an irrelevant one - Clark's education - and you not only get it wrong but rather than admit it you can't do anything other than go looking on the grassy knoll by the plaza in Dallas. If only you used that level of skepticism to relevant facts in this matter, courageous ANONYMOUS. If only.

You say "Previously there was no indication that Clark had an associate degree". Is that so? What sources of previous indications have you checked, courageous ANONYMOUS? Tell me, so that I can judge just how much significance to put in your failure to find "previous indications" in your vast search of them. Right up to this moment, I can truthfully say (based on my knowledge) that "previously there was no indication" that you are not a long time resident of an insane asylum. What should people make of that, courageous ANONYMOUS?

As to the teachers aide "at best", my question was to the "at best" reference, which I take as denigrating being a teachers aide with deaf kids. If that is "only" what she did, do you know what that involves, and why would you denigrate a school board member for doing that? Might not such experiences be helpful for a school board member? Or are only accountants sufficiently skilled to be board members? Those are rhetorical questions, courageous ANONYMOUS. Don't waste your or my time with an inane answer.

I have one last suggestion for you, courageous ANONYMOUS. In addition to steering clear of the cowardly/courageous concepts about which you clearly know nothing, steer clear of attempts at logical analysis for the same reason. Not only is your feeble attempt to explain Metzger lame (and an embarrassing attempt, apparently, to be clever), but as is typical you base your entire "logical" argument on a supposed "fact" (that Metzger does not feel that his email was inappropriate) about which, as with most things here, you really know nothing.

Let's not be so quick to reward EFFORT over ACCOMPLISHMENT. Why should we thank Metzger or Clark, our last two SB Presidents, for their time & dedication if they spent most of that time screwing things up? Anon 10 are you new or just don't remember the Metea process? They wanted to start building on property (BB quick-take)we didn't own or know the price of and then be locked into that price after the foundation was dry....Is that how you would build a house? We're still negotiating our buyout of that mess. The change boundaries quicker than most of us change our socks. Are you supporting their handling of this last disciplinary debacle at Gregory? Was it OK to fire off the now infamous "MF-er e-mail"? Shouldn't the President of the school board have the class and dignity to at least give the impression of neutrality on issues, regardless of what we now know is acceptable discussion behind closed doors? Anon 10 is naive to think some people don't have private agendas to get on the school board; some truly just want to improve the status quo (Bruce Glawe) and give back to the community, others have more sinister plans or are on mini-power trips(Clark), others use it to increase their billable hours and/or as a stepping stone to political office (Metzger). I never trusted MM or JC. Sorry, nothing personal but many of us have found JC to be absolutely scary.

This concept of rewarding effort over accomplishment is becoming a national epidemic esp. here in Naperville. It's the reason everybody's kid gets a trophy on their youth soccer team, it's the reason cheerleading squads have 30 members now instead of eight, the reason some parents were upset the NV varsity football team started to cut their roster from 115+ to a reasonable 80-85. The reason there will be 65 teams instead of 64 in the March Madness national basketball tourney. Once again a whiner got its way...."we need a play-in game, the process isn't fair." Every once and awhile true leadership requires the unfortunate task of telling someone, "Sorry but you weren't good enough to make the cut this year, try again next year or maybe you should try another activity."

Metzger & Clark need to try another game besides playing MONOPOLY with our tax money.

P.S. To Anon 10, lighten up man, if we lose our sense of humor we will surely lose our minds! Like Sonny told Michael, "you're taking this way too personal."

Anon, I am not a board member, but I am capable of putting myself in other's shoes.

Along those lines, here is a thought ... those who have written such insulting things here about school administrators and board members because the writer is concerned about how the victim of the sexual assault feels ... how do you imagine those school peoples' children will feel if they read the crap you openly write here about their parents?

If I said anything here or anywhere else about a child's parent which I knew the child could easily see and would upset them when they saw or heard it, I would feel pretty low. Substitute your name for the name of someone you've villified in what you've written, and imagine how your kids would feel if they saw that. Have any of you given any thought to that? If you have, why have you said what you said? If you haven't, why should I believe that YOUR supposed sensitivities to this assault victim are even worth considering?

I find no surprise at all, Anon, in your ... I can't even think of an adequate adjective here ... statements. I will address them one at a time.

1. "All I [Anon] can get out of your [Anon 10's] comments is that you [Anon 10] believe that the school admin and board should be absolved of all responsibility in this event." ..... That is so ignorant I am stunned. Putting aside the almost countless things I have consistently said, Anon, the one thing you get out of them is exactly the opposite of what I have said. THEY are the people who have ACCEPTED THIS RESPONSIBILITY on our behalf, it is their RESPONSIBILITY to take or not take a wide range of actions, and of course THEY are the people who are being VILLIFIED by anonymous people like you for following their duty in exercising their responsibility notwithstanding the screams of an emotional mob!!! Absolving themselves of responsibility would be to just do whatever the loudest mob wants no matter what the law says and then say "we're just doing what the people wanted us to do". You have no concept whatsoever of what responsibility is, Anonymous.

2. "[Anon 10 thinks] That they are perfectly right to sit on their hands and do nothing, except burden 2,000 other kids with these 2 boys." ..... This is the standard emotional ignorant self-righteous screed here - IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT I WANT DONE, YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING. NOTHING I SAY. NOTHING!!!!! They've not guaranteed that special precautions are taken for all of these kids when they are at school? They haven't tried to work with the family of the perpetrators to see if they would agree to some resolution? Going back to my questions answered by your silence, you don't know what they have done and you know you don't know what they have done. Except you know that they have not given you WHAT YOU WANT AND HAVE NOT DONE IT RIGHT NOW!!! How about you give that ignorant rant a rest?

3. "I [Anon] think it's a perfect act of cowardice." ..... Wow. Well said, courageous ANONYMOUS. I previously suggested that the "courageous" people here such as yourself could violate the law yourselves to get these kids out of the schools, rather than hide behind the skirt of the school and demand that THEY violate the laws. I personally think it would be wrong, but since you think otherwise there must be a lot of illegal things you could do to get these kids out of the schools, courageous ANONYMOUS. As I recall, courageous Glock said the law should be violated, but HE did not want to do anything because HE would get in trouble. And I think it was him who also courageously suggested that he would as a principled person give up a school job if he could not do what he wants here, though of course that is not his job so that someone else as principled as him, if there is anyone, would have to do it instead. Seriously, do me a favor, courageous ANONYMOUS, and don't ever refer to courage and cowardice here, because your ignorance on that subject makes me sick.

4. "You've got to be close to this somehow. Trying to make yourself feel as if you've done the right thing." .... As I indicated, I can put myself in the shoes of others. Still, it is stunning how you can assume a nefarious personal agenda by others, all the while thinking your opinion is more valid because you have a kid in one of the schools involved. If that works for you to get you through the jungle of your hypocracy, ignorance, and illogic, courageous ANONYMOUS, do whatever it takes to make you sleep at night.

5. "Thank goodness others in our nation's hisory have stood up to ridiculous laws/injustice and done whats right. We would sure be in a different place right now if our ancestors were as lame and cowardly as 204 and certain board members." .... Again, you have no credibility when speaking on the subject of cowardous/courage while villifying people publicly, courageous ANONYMOUS. (You say "certain" board members, courageous ANONYMOUS, but I don't understand why you would seemingly exclude any of them. Even Bradshaw, who has said he would "like" to do what you want, has been waiting to get the law changed rather than "courageously" violate it as you want - or is he "courageous" by telling the mob like you what they want to hear?) To the broader point of your ignorance about civil disobediance, we are a nation of laws, courageous ANONYMOUS, and while there are times to go outside the system when the system won't correct itself (civil rights, as the obvious example), where would we be if our ancestors, and now us, in the first instance always just did whatever they wanted regardless of the law without first at least attempting to correct the law? People are working to change the law, which is how our country is supposed to work, but those things take a little time - intentionally so because often a rush to judgment overlooks too much. But I know, YOU WANT WHAT YOU WANT AND YOU WANT IT NOW and if someone won't give it to you RIGHT NOW they are evil, ignorant and (I didn't forget) cowardly people.

Btw, courageous ANONYMOUS, have you asked any of the candidates in this election if they would violate the law if that's what it took to expel the perpetrators here? If you haven't asked them, why not? And if none have or will say that, will you refuse to vote in an election which offers only cowards as candidates? And if none have or will say that, how will getting rid of the current members you blame for this change anything in this matter?

There is one very good reason Mark M most likely will not resign from the school board.

It has to do with the exact same logic and reason Mark M did not feel there was anything wrong with sending such a totally inexcusable email in the first place.

Using the same logic and reason Mark M can not possible feel there is anything inappropriate with him continuing to sit on the school board.

Clearly his own ego does not let him see himself as clearly and as objectively as just about everyone else sees him.

To Anonymous 10 on March 13, 2009 10:52 AM

"2. You say Clark is a "high school grad", but her easily found profile at ipsd.org says "Jeannette Clark is a life-long resident of the Chicago area and has lived in District 204 since 1987. She graduated from Morton West High School in Berwyn. She earned an associate of arts degree in human services at Morton College and continued her undergraduate studies at George Williams College. She was first elected to the Board in 1993, and was re-elected in 1997, 2001, and 2005. Her term expires in April of 2009." I'm kind of speechless as to what to make of your teachers aide "at best" comment."

George Williams College is defunct so that can't be verified. Previously there was no indication that Clark had an associate degree so I don't know when that profile was revised or the date of her 2 year degree. I do remember an earlier profile where it said she was attending college.

Unless the standards have been lowered for certified teachers I'm not sure what you don't understand about being a teachers aide "at best"?

Dr. Phil and Anon -

Re your 1-8,

1. You say Vicker's profile says she "is only a high school grad"? That may be so, but I'd never take either of your words for it.

2. You say Clark is a "high school grad", but her easily found profile at ipsd.org says "Jeannette Clark is a life-long resident of the Chicago area and has lived in District 204 since 1987. She graduated from Morton West High School in Berwyn. She earned an associate of arts degree in human services at Morton College and continued her undergraduate studies at George Williams College. She was first elected to the Board in 1993, and was re-elected in 1997, 2001, and 2005. Her term expires in April of 2009." I'm kind of speechless as to what to make of your teachers aide "at best" comment.

3. You say Clark praises WVHS but secretly wanted to be in the Metea area for her property values. Clearly she must be motivated by greed, having spent god only knows how many unpaid hours over 16 years on the school board. Can you say "I'm grateful", Dr. Phil and Anon?

4. Be careful what you wish for.

5. I am not MM. In any case, more disturbing than the mental picture you mention is that you would even think of such a mental picture. But if you have some need for disturbing fantasies, feel free to pretend I am anything you want - a nun, a sheep, a sailor, whatever your apparently sick minds need. Still, you might want to seek professional help.

6-7. I assume you have an agenda to support the group of 4, which is your right. However, as I know well from this web site, spin is everything. You seem to indicate, Phil, that 5 candidates (Vickers, et al.) are only pandering to the voters for (1) stating the reality (the board CAN discuss it at any time) and (2) saying they are against changing boundaries "only after hearing the voting public was against playing border ward again". Do you think that was some great revelation, Phil - that they thought a majority of the thousands of voters WANT to do that again, but hearing from a few score of voters at a meeting they realized that they would have to change tactic? If you want to look for disingenuousness, Phil, why don't you question the group of 4 which you apparently think can be trusted on that issue - why do they use the seemingly unnecessary word "currently" in their statement? Do they mean boundaries are not "currently" up for discussion (but, oh, by the way, wink, wink, they will be if they get elected? And if that word is merely a reflection of the reality you find so troublesome to have been stated by the other 5 candidates, why doesn't it trouble you equally with them?

8. No comment.

Are you two even capable of writing a comment which is completely honest and accurate and not merely your own woefully uninformed opinion?

I have to say I wholeheartedly believe we have an exceptional school board. Their only problem is dealing with the entitled parents of district 204 - you couldn't pay me to endure this.

anon10 sounds just like a board member. All I can get out of your comments is that you believe that the school admin and board should be absolved of all responsibility in this event. That they are perfectly right to sit on their hands and do nothing, except burden 2,000 other kids with these 2 boys. I think it's a perfect act of cowardice. You've got to be close to this somehow. Trying to make yourself feel as if you've done the right thing. Thank goodness others in our nation's hisory have stood up to ridiculous laws/injustice and done whats right. We would sure be in a different place right now if our ancestors were as lame and cowardly as 204 and certain board members.

By Glock 22 on March 11, 2009 5:41 PM

"Junior high school students sodomizing one of their peers is not something I exect to deal with in Naperville. I could move to Englewood for that kind of crap."

way to spew elitest, racist, garbage glock,,,,

Wrong again, Dr. Phil, re Clark's education. She has an associates degree.

And I was up at 6 a.m., not noon.

Also, your "qoute" about some candidates and boundaries is more fully stated in the group of 4's web site, which says they share a "core belief that school boundaries are not currently an issue up for discussion." A smart person might ask why they use the word "currently" - it seems unnecessary if they mean that they are not going to revisit the issue. It kind of brings to mind Jim Thompson always saying that he would not raise taxes and then right after the elections he was shocked ... shocked!! ... to find that conditions were such that he would have to raise them after all. But maybe they mean what you interpret them to say ... your trust of these people is quite remarkable given your simultaneous sneering that other candidates were only saying what people want to hear.

More informative, however, is how your and Anon's quest for information here is directed at trying to denigrate the people who have voluntarily offered and/or given so much to the community, and not one question - not a single one - relates to whether the false information on which you base your "courageous" (but anonymous????) stated opinion is accurate.

That's pretty sick. It says a lot about you, and nothing about the people you want to blame for all your problems. I wonder, honestly, why the Sun even maintains comments like this. A psychiatric association - that I could see running this as therapy for disturbed people ... but a newspaper supposedly dedicated to report the facts - they fill their site with garbage, false information, and lies. Ironic, to say the least.

Not once has anyone here answered my simple questions which merely seek to determine the specific facts upon which their "courageous" opinions are based. I know why you don't answer and so do you - you know you don't really know what you should to say the things you do here, and it is easier to ignore that than to embarrass yourself. I'd suggest you follow a different tact altogether - it is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it beyond doubt.

I apologize for my insults here. I really started writing here after what I had been reading to just get people to slow down and give a little thought to what they were saying, particularly since they are so free with their anonymous vicious statements about people. I actually thought there were intelligent and thoughtful people in Naperville who maybe would stop and reflect a little before continuing with their unfounded villification of good people. I became frustrated as this has gone on when I came to realize that while there may be such people in Naperville, very few of them write here.

Sick ... and sad.

Dear SUN Editorial/Blog Staff:

For clarification purposes, could you state for the record:

1)The current names and titles of the #204 school board (Pres, VP, interim etc)
2)How many seats are open for the April 7th election
3)Who is up for re-election, who is not
4)Who is stepping down/term expiring not seeking re-election
5)(editorial opinion)Do you think Metzger will leave and/or be forced out by the rest of the board?

Dr Phil,

1. vickers - high school grad
2. clark - high school grad, kids went to WV. No college degree so she may have been some kind of teachers aide at best.
3. Yes I can.
4. clark is gone come april... THANK GOD!
5. could be, the mental picture is pretty ugly and disturbing, but I could see it happening.
6. borders are set by policy, policy can be changed AT ANY TIME
7. set sounds nice, but really is a temporary term until the board feels like moving them... could be ten years, could be 10 days... they could move it every semester if they felt like it.
8. always a spoiler in every crowd.

To Anon 10:

I see you slept in til noon again. I hope you took my advice on your dosage today.

To: Everyone else:

Let's get to the bottem of some of these claims & questions: (please chime in if you know otherwise)

1) Vickers is only a high school grad (says so on her profile)
2) Jeanette Clark claims to have been a teacher of the deaf and her kids went to WVHS. Did she teach their as well? Is she only a HS grad also? Where did she go to HS and/or college?
3) Clark, while lauding her (or her kids)alma matre WVHS, schemed & manipulated her household over to the new HS (Metea) to boost her property value. Can you say "private agenda"?
4) Clark still has time left on her term...how much?...I thought two more years...please confirm
5) Anon 10... is really MM with a blue dress on :)
6) After hearing the voting public was against playing border wars again...even though Vickers, Piehl, Strick, Crockette & Rising said it would be to their discretion to change at any time.....have now all stated they're against changing borders. Isn't that just a typical politician trying to get elected telling us want we want to hear?
7) The only candidates that came out EARLY and stated in their campaign forum profiles that (quote) "THE BOUNDARIES ARE SET" were DeSart, DeFusco, Hepburn, Huang & Moscuto
8) Wagner thinks she's Ralph Nader....simply by having her name on the ballot, she'll peel votes off the main contenders...get real!


anonymous 7:48

Do you mean that Anonymous 10 posts illogically and non-rationally on the napergate threads? Or that the napergate threads are full of other people who post MORE logically and rationally than Anon 10?

If it is the former, I am sorry, I have never noticed Anon 10 posts over there. If you mean the later......I think I will have to question your definitions of logic and rationality!

I have never seen threads so full of logical leaps, opinions presented as facts, and wild, screaming, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories as those dealing with Napergate. I suspect most of the people over there must spend all their time researching theories about the Grassy Knoll and the Second Gunman.........whenever they are not on the Napergate blogs.

(Actually, I have seen worse threads......right here.....dealing with the Metea situation!)

Not one, single, solitary person on this thread has dealt with the points Anonymous 10 makes other than to attack based on presumptions of what Anon 10's REAL agenda is and to insist over and over that the equivalent of mob justice is what is needed. Not one.

-----------

And to Anonymous 10:02.

Forming opinions does not take courage. But loudly and deliberately witholding judgement while justice takes its course usually does.

Ouch, Anonymous. You really got off a good clever one there.

However, I never said the Naperville village idiot position was open, so even in your cleverness you have to make something up, huh? Pretty sad. It's nice to know you have been checking to see when that would open up.

In any event, I really didn't need to have much education to know that it is best to actually know the facts when reaching a judgment, particularly if you're going to insult someone for not agreeing with you.

Even village idiots know that ... and yet, you don't seem to. Hmmmmm.

Anon - that sounds like a reasonable law in Texas, I suppose depending on what "Title V felony offenses are". Since we are not in Texas, however, I still think it is inappropriate to villify people at the schools for following Illinois law. People should be directing the over the top insults they have been making about school people somewhere else, or don't make them at all. THESE people don't deserve it. And I shudder to think of the potentially good people we will lose from not running, etc. because they don't want to have to put up with the type of stuff said and written here.

To Anonymous 10,

"MY college education taught me that logic." Oh, really? What were you classmates with Mark Mitrovich the new super over in 203?

I just checked and you know you are right the Naperville village idiot position was open and you are doing a great job filling it. Your parents must be so proud.

Anon - the only thing I really disagree with is your statement that the district should have moved these kids to an alternative school EVEN THOUGH it appears you understand that they cannot legally do that. You walk down a dangerous path when you start asking public officials to violate the law. Be careful what you ask for ...

Oh, I do also disagree with the lawsuit likelihood. While they are always possible (all you have to do to sue is file a complaint, even if you have no chance of winning), not every unhappy event can be blamed on someone else in a lawsuit, no matter what people write here. While you think suits are in the works by the offenders' parents, for example, I can't even fathom what they would sue for.

Also, I doubt the school districts are particularly concerned about being sued no matter what people here say, by which I mean that the reason the schools are not violating the law is not because they are afraid of being sued. They get sued all the time. I think the reason they refuse to violate the law is based on a belief (not shared by many here, apparently) that in their public duties it is appropriate and proper to follow the law. If the law is inappropriate, then the people who make the laws should change them (as is being worked on now), but until that time they feel they should follow the law as it exists now. At least I hope they do. If you think otherwise, I would just say it is a dangerous path you would be headed down.

Here is a little excerpt from how they deal with this type of situation in TX...we need something like this here...

Certain Felonies

Regardless of whether placement or expulsion is required or permitted by one of the reasons in the DAEP or Expulsion sections, in accordance with Texas Education Code 37.0081, a student may be expelled and placed in either a DAEP or JJAEP if the board or its designee makes certain findings and the following circumstances exist in relation to a felony offense under Title V of the Texas Penal Code. The student must:

Have received deferred prosecution for conduct defined as a Title V felony offense;
Have been found by a court or jury to have engaged in delinquent conduct for conduct defined as a Title V felony offense;
Have been charged with engaging in conduct defined as a Title V offense;
Have been referred to a juvenile court for allegedly engaging in delinquent conduct for conduct defined as a Title V felony offense; or
Have received probation or deferred adjudication or have been arrested for, charged with, or convicted of a Title V felony offense.
The district may expel the student and order placement under these circumstances regardless of:

The date on which the student's conduct occurred,
The location at which the conduct occurred;
Whether the conduct occurred while the student was enrolled in the district, or
Whether the student has successfully completed any court disposition requirements imposed in connection with the conduct.

anon10...the district should have moved these kids to an alternative school. A school setting that is designed for kids who commit crimes of all types. That is what should have been done. Once they saw that these kids parents were not going to take responsibility for their actions, the district had a duty to protect the rest of the student population. It is absolutely ridiculous that both districts are trying to maintain sexual offenders (sorry, the pictures prove their guilt) in the general population. It just isn't right or fair to the 2,000 other kids that are being affected by these boys being in their midst. This has been and continues to be very disruptive to the environment at Lincoln. The district IS going to be sued over this incident regardless of what they did or didn't do. Heck, I'll bet that the little offenders parents have got suits in the works. The district should have had the guts to be sued over doing the right thing.

Wow, Anonymous, what you say about Jeanette Clark is so inaccurate from what I do know that I won't even begin to respond to that. But your ignorant comments do further my continued criticism here that no good deeds will go unpunished, especially when it is criticism of volunteer work by people who don't do the work themselves.

(To Anonymous Eleven - I heard Clark has worked with deaf children, and what you mock regarding her apparent attempt to bring some order to a raucus situation seems far more intelligent than your ignorant, inaccurate and bizarre statements. Where you heard that Clark is a retired WVHS teacher is beyond me. Oh, and her term is ending in April and she is not running for reelection, but you can enjoy being the "educated voter" that you are by not voting for her in 2 years if you want. Also, don't look now but I think the boundaries they are using next year with Metea are pretty much what you mock her for having proposed).

Back to Anonymous, I don't believe I have ever said that the reaction of parents at Gregory to this kid are not normal or not acceptable. Nor have I questioned the feelings of parents at Lincoln either, which I take you to be one. I have questioned (and I think you must too) how transferring the kid(s) out of Gregory to another school is going to make anything better than perhaps for the one victim. And then I have questioned how people can vilify school administrators and school board members for not transferring the remaining kid.

It was not their decision, for example, to move the kid to Lincoln, and yet I take it you think that move was unacceptable. If so, why don't you defend them for not reflexively sending the other kid to another school to create another set of parents who will feel like you?

I have also REPEATEDLY asked people to justify their vilification of people by using facts and not just broad generalizations, and while the responses I see this morning again do not bother to address that issue, they do incredibly continue to use ridiculously false information. Pretty sad, but as I have said I think that people are just mad and don't really care whether they really know the true situation. Certainly the "facts" you seem to assert here do not prove otherwise. As I said once, they just want what they want and they want it now.

Regarding the village, Anonymous, just because I am different in this "village" does not mean that it is ME who is the idiot. MY college education taught me that logic.

wow anonymous10, you are really very self righteous. The reactions of the majority of the parents are actually right on and completely normal. Sorry, I don't want this kid at Lincoln with my kids. I can't, for the life of me, understand why his parents would think that this is a good move. As if he could just slip in there and not be noticed? He is the talk of the school and he may as well be wearing a scarlett letter around his neck. Sorry, I don't want my kids befreinding him. I don't want him in the locker room for football or any other sport. I don't want him at the lunch table. I don't want him seeking out a girlfriend. But I guess you see things differently. Maybe your kids can befriend him.

To Anonymous 10 on March 11, 2009 10:58 PM,

After reading this post I have come to the following conclusion: You are depriving some poor village of its idiot.

Both districts are going to be sued from many different angles and parties over this mess. That is just what Naperville parents (MANY of them) do. It's in their nature. They should have stood up for what is right and removed both of these boys immediately. Lawsuits are coming regardless.
ANON10...I don't get you at all. Where are you coming from? where do you stand on this? You come across as a fence-sitter, probably an admin from 204, maybe a board member. Wishy-washy, sees everyones point but can't take a firm stand of your own.
I suppose I can glean that you feel the board and the admin have no responsibility to remove these boys? That they should just create a little bubble around them as they travel through the school day. Is that really what is best for these two?
You may call the rest of us ranting or illogical, but at least we can stand up for what we believe in. We have the courage to actually form an opinion.

To Anon 10:

(what does the GAAP say should be done in the Gregory case?)

it should be recorded as a deferred liability on their books. lol

Anonymous 10,

What Koz said about Jeanette Clark and her only having a high school education is true.

The reference about all of the plans isn't necessary to quote the specific plans by number, rather to reflect the fact that Jeanette is all over the place most of the time. Maybe if she had bothered to attend college she could have benefitted from a class in logic.

What is really sad is that Jeanette rode the shirttails of being president of Brookdale Homeowners Assoc to get elected to the school board in the first place. Most people don't realize the rest of the association board members finally couldn't take any more of her and threw her out several years ago.

The association was dying and alienating people throughout Brookdale under her manipulative and control freak leadership. Actually it wouldn't be accurate to call that leadership, it was more like a dictatorship. Traits and qualities she has sowed the seeds of on the school board also don't go unnoticed. Now that she is out of the association it has new members and is once again growing and thriving. Hopefully we will see the same with the school board the sooner she leaves.

Koz is referring to Vicker's work and HS education in previous post, read the profiles in the forum. Clark is a retired WVHS teacher. Remember, then president Clark, scolding us in the NVHS auditorium for clapping...mandating we raise our hands above our heads and flex our fingers to our thumbs because that way the deaf people in the audience would know when we were clapping......she's bizarre... Then she came in with her late plan (as Koz refers 7a or 8b or 9c) that sent everybody all over the place under the guise of "balancing academic achievement." I can't wait to NOT vote for her in two years.

Get Real on March 11, 2009 10:03 PM
You are my new absolute, all-time favorite poster on these boards. Your BREATHTAKING logic - unadulterated by screaming hatred, implications of violence, mob justice, and overall ignorance of (and apparent lack of caring) about the facts - is something I thought never to see on this blog.


-----

Go read the archived threads titled "Napergate" and you may rethink your opinion.


Dr. Phil - If you are trying to defend Judge Judy to me, you don't need to. I don't think I criticized anything she said (other than to correct her mistake in thinking she was replying to a comment I had made, when it was actually someone else's comment and inconsistent with what I have been trying to get across).

Don't worry about my dosage. I've pretty much had my fill here, and recognize that most of what is written here is personal psychotherapy for the writers but is otherwise a waste of time. I will soon return completely to the real world.

Koz - why I bother, I don't know but ... I believe you are once again in error - I do not believe that what you say about Jeanette Clark's education and work is accurate ... and I'd say that your confusion regarding plans 8a, 9b, yadda yadda shows ignorance of details on your part, not hers. And believe it or not, the school board involves a lot more than accounting (what does the GAAP say should be done in the Gregory case?) - so it may be good to have people with different talents. From what you say, I'm pretty sure she has more than what you think will be found in the pretty little head of your wife.

To Anon 10:

Dude, you need to back off from the 12 hour samples to the 4 hour dose!

I think Judge Judy was trying to remind us all, everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty. It's certainly not a perfect system (Drew Peterson) but it's better than China's guilty until proven innocent, eh? Thankfully, nobody's guilt or innocence is determined here on this blog or in the newspapers.

In closing, it's important to note, most parents are very reluctant to accept or believe negative characteristics or actions of their children. That is absolutely normal and predictable rich or poor, black or white; whether here in Naperville, Aurora, Oswego, Wheaton, Chicago/Cook County, New Jersey, L.A. or Tijuana, Mexico!

Thanks for your comments, Get Real. I feel anyone who suggests here that school administrators and unpaid school board members are not really immoral, ignorant, evil people is wasting their time. I take solace in knowing that the self-righteous people who write here are a small minority and sometimes remind myself that those people are perhaps getting needed therapy by venting here. To feel better about themselves, some people feel they need to knock other people down. I wish I could at least get that "satisfaction" from my own writings here, but all I feel is frustration.

Judge Judy - I never made any reference to a Burr Ridge rape, which obviously has nothing to do with this issue, has no relevance to it, and is just another of the inane, confused and misleading analogies made here. The mention of that was so far off the wall that I would not even bother to comment on it. In fact, there are too many to keep up with.

I have tried to identify myself in my comments by adding "10" to Anonymous, though I think I failed to do so in my post at 2:49 this afternoon. Anyway, the post to which you refer was written by someone else, not me, identified only as Anonymous, at 11:13 a.m. in which they included my identification from a comment the day earlier in the first line.

I can see why you would think I am all over the place if I had written that comment too. :-)

Sorry but it's mostly true (with a sliver of sarcasm); she's charming, beautiful and I wouldn't change a hair on her head but she thinks GAAP (General Accepted Accounting Principles) is a clothing store, Comingling is something you do with a blender and wouldn't know the difference between Assumptions, Principles and Constraints if they bit her on the buttocks......but not to worry, she's not running for school board!

Getting late, time to go to bed......I hope my dog left me some room on the couch :)

Glock 22 and Coach Koz ... Thanks for confirming that you neither know nor care about anyting other than broad generalizations which are neither accurate nor provable (nor even understandable), since they are the entire basis of your inane and inaccurate arguments. The obvious reason you will not answer my questions is that you yourselves know you will will show yourself to be blowhards who are great at coming up with emotional self-righteous conclusions which are not based on the real situation you purport to be experts on.

Just to waste my time talking to you brick walls, but to try to add some specifics, if I were on the school board I would:

1. Make sure first that the kids were being closely watched at Gregory so the all the students would be safe from whatever risk the remaining perpetrator presents.

2. Understand that the only lawful option I have beyond that at this point to accommodate the screaming Gregory parents would be to move the kid into another of the 204 middle schools.

3. Hearing all the Gregory parents complain about the safety of their kids (and not just the one victim), I would recognize that:

a. transferring this kid would take him away from the victim so that the victim does not have to see him (though they are already pretty well separated from seeing each other much at all at Gregory, and though nowhere else in his life is he protected against running across the kid),

b. transferring this kid would otherwise only shift the problem to another set of parents who would then complain about the safety of their kids (of all the crap I've seen written on this, I have yet to see a parent at another of the 204 middle schools say "Send him to my kid's class"),

c. transferring this kid to another school might cause him to be a greater risk to those kids (who may not know him to be cautious around him as they now do at Gregory, unless you want to hold an assembly and have him do a perp walk in front of everyone, and maybe post posters around school) than he is to the Gregory kids who know him.

I believe 1 and 2 have been done. As to whether I would choose the only available option (move the kid to Crone or Still or something) based on the considerations listed in 3, I would want to hear as much as I can from everyone (including BOTH sets of parents), and then if the parents of the perpetrator would not agree that it would be best to move, it would be a tough call. I could go either way (keep him at Gregory, send him to another 204 middle school) - not hearing all I would like to hear, it is hard to say (I know it is easier for you two, because you really don't need to know anything to come up with the undeniably correct conclusion). For me, whether I would agree or disagree with the decision made by someone who bore the responsibility to do so, I would not vilify them either way.

Btw, I will not waste my time at this point discussing whether no. 2 is really the only option (because of the in-school "assault"), because I'd need to know what the TRUTH of all that is. If you want to address it, answer my question nos. 10+ (March 11, 9:06 am) and then we can go from there. Otherwise, all I would expect to hear from you is that the kid beat the victim to within an inch of his life in front of a teacher when the school already knew about the sexual assault and then the school still did nothing. Making up crap like that seems to be the basis for your self-righteous condemnation of people here, but the only purpose that serves seems to be some psychological therapy for you.

Wow, nothing to say about Koz's post good or bad but the following-

My wife is only a HS grad and has done well working her way up the ladder but sorry, I don't let her near the checkbook!
-------------------------------
If I were Mrs. Koz, or Ms. Koz, or the soon to be former Mrs. Koz, I would be taking severe issue with those words, whether meant to be funny or not.

Anonymous 10

You are my new absolute, all-time favorite poster on these boards. Your BREATHTAKING logic - unadulterated by screaming hatred, implications of violence, mob justice, and overall ignorance of (and apparent lack of caring) about the facts - is something I thought never to see on this blog.

I hope these kids get what is coming to them. I feel fairly certain they will. I feel terrible for the victim. I think MM showed amazingly poor judgement with his email. I curse like a drunken sailor most of the time....but not on email. He will probably have to resign over it. I think the school board as a whole is handling the situation quite well based on the facts I know -- which are few.

But the killer bees on this site who's nests have been disturbed and are ready to sting to death anything that moves make me sick.

Keep going at it. There are at least a few rationale folks reading your posts.

My apoligies everyone:

there were 20,818 total votes for 3 School board spots in 2007. If everyone voted for exactly 3 candidates (they did not) then 6,940 actual voters went to the polls and voted in the D204 SB elections.

6940 voters divided by 832 petitioners/voters = 8.34% of the voting public from the 2007 elections.

I think I need to take a statistics refersher course in one of our high schools lol.

The "Slate of Four" has no hidden agendas regarding boundaries. They all stated in their profile/worksheets..."the boundaries are set" Every voter should take the time to look at these forum profiles for yourselves at http://ipsdweb.ipsd.org/IPPC ... I'm not a relative or friend of any but I know some of them. They are well educated, successful business owners in the community, a couple are youth league football coaches and are just tired of seeing so much waste of the taxpayer's educational dollars. They're the type of people that will recognize incompetence and overlap of administrative services. How many directors and asst supt.s positions do we need? Did you know NVHS's former principal Dr. Popp now receives the same salary to just research and administrate "No Child Left Behind" over at the Ivory Tower?

They're running as a consortium because the current board is a consortium. After seeing Metzger and Clark and friends in action over the years, the only way you could get anything changed past that "possee" is to come in with a voting majority. Anybody with experience in these matters knows it's very difficult to come in solo and change the mindset of a board, especially one so brainwashed to hold Metzger in such high esteem.

I also like Dawn DeSart but beware of Vickers, when the issues got hot during the Metea debacle, she either abstained or wasn't at the meeting to vote. That's gutless leadership. The red flag phrase in her profile is "balancing academic achievement"....translation ...cross town bussing....sounds like Jeanette Clark's 11th hour plan 7b, or was it 8a, or was it 9c. Remember those days? She's only a high school graduate and an IT middle manager. Is that who you want in charge of a multi-million dollar budget? My wife is only a HS grad and has done well working her way up the ladder but sorry, I don't let her near the checkbook!

Suffering in 204: May I suggest that the problems eminate from mismanagement of the school system by board members who have stayed too long? By poor choices they have made in the selection of district administrators? And ultimately, mostly by we voters who to this day do not show up to meetings and candidate forums in enough numbers to demand excellence from these people. Metzger blew the Brach Brody deal to the maximum. The coup de grace for me was hiring the lobbyist to may I say "influence" the legislators in Springfield to pass a quick take law specific to this district? Now this e-mail stuff and it amazes me that he still has people supporting him. As a Blago supporter, I just had to sit down and shut up when that goof was caught on tape and later impeached. Now maybe its time for the Metzger supports to do the same. Find out about the candidates yourself and forget about whom everyone else on the block or subdivision is voting for.

Hello fellow D204 taxpayers/voters/parents

I thought I would try and add some perspective to the concern on how our SB has dealt with the tragic situation and of course "the email" everyone keeps talking about and the online petition that is making its rounds through email etc.

In the April 2007 D204 school board election. There were 3 seats up for grabs. Here is the vote breakdown (not counting the misc. write in candidates)

DUPAGE: 11,356 total votes
* Curt B: 2610 22.98% of Dupage votes
* Mark M: 2385 21.00% of Dupage votes
* Alka T: 1755 15.45% of Dupage votes
* Michelle D: 1499 13.20% of Dupage votes
* Kevin K: 1216 10.71% of Dupage votes
* Steven C: 907 7.99% of Dupage votes
* Leane L: 984 8.67% of Dupage votes

WILL: 9,462 total votes
* Curt B: 2158 22.81% of Will votes
* Mark M: 1999 21.13% of Will votes
* Alka T: 1483 15.67% of Will votes
* Michelle D: 1332 14.08% of Will votes
* Kevin K: 914 9.66% of Will votes
* Steven C: 689 7.28% of Will votes
* Leane L: 874 9.24% of Will votes

COMBINED COUNTIES: 20,818 votes
* Curt B: 4768 22.90%
* Mark M: 4384 21.06%
* Alka T: 3238 15.55%
* Michelle D: 2831 13.60%
* Kevin K: 2130 10.23%
* Steven C: 1596 7.67%
* Leane L: 1858 8.93%

The petition for M2's resignation from the SB entirely is at 832 signatures. If all 832 folks voted in the election 2 years ago (and of course they did not. I did not as I was out of town and did not have an absentee ballot I am ashamed to say) then the signatures on the petition as it currently stands are 4% of the voting public from the election 2 years ago.

Alot has happened in the past two years. I expect the combined vote totals for the two counties to be much higher than in 2007. Please everyone, do your research on all the candidates and make your 4 votes count!! M2 is not running again until 2011 (unless he decides not to run for reelection and/or he decides to step down) but I thought adding some actual numbers for (or against) the case for M2 to tender his resignation based on the current petition totals might be beneficial for this blog since it has come up quite alot on the thread.


Anon 10 is all over the place on this blog and his/her issues. Let's address one of the rants on March 10 @ 2:33pm....

Don't compare this case to the alleged gang rape of a then Naperville girl in Burr Ridge years ago. The facts of that case didn't involve school grounds or a school board. 3 different juries said those boys were NOT rapists....twisted "sleaze ball, scum bags" that you wouldn't want your daughter to hang with for sure, but again, according to 3 different juries, not rapists. Teenagers do wacky stupid things, esp if they're drunk and/or high and/or there's no parents around. Read the transcript someday, if your familiar with court proceedings. As disgusting as this may sound, had they not video taped the event...they would be in jail right now. The media and court of public opinion had already determined their guilt. As in the Gregory students case, innocent until proven guilty, but surely some alternative school site should be mandated for accused felons in cases of rape or repeated intimidation and/or harrassment. I think the pictures sent or shown to other classmates in this case initially prove more than "their word against his." We have to lean toward the victim's rights and safety first but we also have to safe guard the accused from false allegations. It wouldn't be the first time a "scorned woman" has tried to get retribution by using the courts while crying wolf!
(But if found guilty by a jury of our peers, I'll help you find the first tree to hang em from.)

In the Burr Ridge case, the complainant (the girl) came to that party with her own drugs, her own alcohol and her own condoms. According to witness testimony, she told the girl she drove there with, she wanted to "get laid tonight." In the video it shows her exiting a room after being with the first kid, asking who's next. She later passed out. The asst states attorney begged the victim's family to view the tape before the last trial, as the previous trials ended in acquittal(but they never looked at it), withdraw the rape charge against the 3rd kid who fled the country to Serbia and they could at least put this last scum bag in jail for 3-5 years for jumping bail. They refused because their per$onal injury attorney said it could damage their civil suit...they pushed for the trial, lost again, and then dogged the state's attorney's office in the media for malfeasance. This girl's parents allowed her to have a 24 year old boy friend when she was 16.

Until Senger gets the law changed, the school board's hands are tied, but certainly the victim's father deserves more respect and decency from our school board and esp its acting president.

The drama and serious issues in our school district is never ending.

Why is that? I'm not sure. I tend to think its the Admin leadership (Dr. D) and the SB leadership (M2). It could be argued that the parents of D204 have some cuplability here as well, but I believe it is primarily our leadership.

When I look at some of our neighboring school districts, it seems they are able to handle their issues in much more of an effective and efficient manner.

Ours in D204 seem to continue on forever. Isnt the Brach Brodie suit still going on from the infamous quick take from M2?

I will be voting for change in both this current 4/7/09 election and also again in April 2011 when M2, CB and AT come up for re-election (assuming M2 does not resign from the board and/or decide to not run for re-election in 2011)

I would like to see a completely new board in May 2011 and it needs to start next month (IMO).

By MHH on March 11, 2009 3:56 PM

Here you go "what the?"

Mainly two subdivisions on the list.

=======================

Thanks for the link; I did check it out.

It's an easy mistake to look at Fry Elementary, White Eagle Elementary and Scullen Middle as belonging to just two subdivisions. Just because these schools are located in Tall Grass and White Eagle does not mean only children living in those subdivisions attend. I know Eagle Point and Heatherstone Subdivisions also feed into White Eagle; Heatherstone was included in the boundary dispute but I'm not sure about Eagle Point as they are close to Waubonsie anyway.

Does anyone know if any other subdivisions besides Tall Grass, like those further south such as Tamarack, feed into Fry Elementary?

And kids from the southeast also travel across 59 to attend Scullen, many live in the Welch and Patterson areas. The only way to know for sure what subdivisions the signers live in is to look up the street locations, and I'm not about to spend the time doing that. Anyone else please feel free.

But I did scan all the signatures and do a loose count. I counted all those that listed having children at Fry or White Eagle Elementary. As for those that only listed NVHS, Scullen or N/A, I only counted those which lived on streets I knew to be in either Tall Grass or White Eagle. White Eagle Dr. and Mistflower Lane were dead giveaways and were included; those that said their children attended Welch and Scullen were obviously left out, that type of thing.

Anyway, my estimate came out to be about 350 out of 832 signatures come from Tall Grass or White Eagle. Could be closer to half if I left out a lot that I didn't recognize as being in Tall Grass. I know White Eagle a lot better. Could be less than half if a lot of those addresses are in other subdivisions that feed into those neighborhoods.

What does stick out to me was that almost all the signatures come from folks in the southern part of the district, just not two particular subdivisions as you claim. Half may be coming from the southwest subdivisions largely unhappy with the boundary outcome, but the other half are coming from the southeast subdivisions that were happy with the boundary outcome.

What this says to me is that the northern part of the district doesn't seem to be weighing in on this issue. Is it because they are so grateful that Metzger, Dr. D. et al gave them their new school that they're willing to look the other way on all other issues? It seems like this is the case. It could be MM bought a lot of silent northern support with that school, but I don't think that will be enough to keep him on the board in the next election.

ANON 10: You know what many of us mob types would do and what we think. You also know many of us are irritated with the negative press that eminates from this school district all too often. Junior high school students sodomizing one of their peers is not something I exect to deal with in Naperville. I could move to Englewood for that kind of crap. I live here and pay $11,000 a year between two school districts expecting administrators to step up to the plate and not MF a parent whose child has been raped and then attacked in his public school. IS THAT AN IDEA YOU CAN EMBRACE? Other than to ask questions and implying support for the school district, you have not indicated what you would do. So why don't you explain how you would have handled the matter from dealing with the off school grounds sexual assault, the transmission of the photos to other district students, the on school grounds assault of the victim and the consequences of MFing by the president of the school board to the victims father. I am very curious to read what your response to these issues would be. Don't explain your thinking that a student has an inalienable right to attend a public school. Twelve year olds are expelled from public schools frquently in this country. You know their educational needs are met via alternative methods.

sorry, I meant to say that our schools are NOT designed to be little detention centers. They are not equipped to handle criminal behavior and the other kids shouldn't have to deal with this kind of disruption.

I don't even understand anon 10...what point are you trying to make, exactly?? You think that the preps. should be allowed to stay in their schools? You feel the school has absolutely no responsibility in this at all? How about the parents of these 2 boys? What is their responsibility in this mess? Shouldn't they have taken action to do whats right and remove their kids and put them into some type of intensive treatment? I jsut don't really see the point you're trying to make. Most of us, I'm a Lincoln parent dealing with this now, think that these boys don't belong in any public school setting until they've received treatment and a treatment team says they are safe to be around others. I think that most of us are pretty angry that we have this kid at lincoln who is taking a lot of time and resources away from the rest of the school because he has to be treated like a potential predator. It's insane, the police presence, the kids all gossiping, the administators shadowing him and on and on. Our public schools are designed to be little detention centers.

To Anonymous 10:

How did we do against the Brach & Brodie estate attorneys? They certainly found a court to handle that one didn't they? It was like shark & shark bait.....Your limited understanding of the word prejudice, counselor, is as short as your kick stand. Based upon your numerous posts, you obviously like to see yourself talk. I'll bet you dollars to donuts the district gets sued over this.

To MHH:

Thanks for posting the petition site.

http://it.ipsd.org/policy/email.htm

"Users of 204 email services are expressly required not to make defamatory statements and not to infringe or authorize any infringement of copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Any such communication is contrary to district policy and outside the scope of the employment of the individual concerned. District 204 will not accept any liability in respect of such communication, and the employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability arising. Employees who receive such an email must notify their supervisor immediately."

Coach Koz - There aren't enough courts in the land to handle all the lawsuits that people in blogs like this ignorantly dream up are sure to be filed (but never are).

The ignorance in your brief statements is almost breathtaking, but I will address just one. "Prejudice" involves PRE JUDGING. The school board is not a court, but a political body, where "prejudice" is not only allowable but virtually required (which is why they state their opinions to get elected). Moreover, by the time of his statement, whether his judgment was right or wrong, I think he was probably POST JUDGING.

I'm losing track but I think that's 102 times and 101 variations of the apples and oranges comparison I've read on this subject, Glock 22. "If we can do this, then certainly we can do that." There is a vast difference between PRIVILEGES and RIGHTS. The law does not give a teacher a "right" to a job at a school, but the law does give people (17 and under in this state I believe) a right to a public education. Taking away the PRIVILEGE of a job is a completely different thing from taking away the RIGHT to an education.

But I have to say I'm impressed by the very high standards you bring to your imaginary job as a school administrator - implying you would quit or force them to fire you if things were not how you think they should be. You are really special ... some might say self-righteous even. Well, I would anyway.

I suspect that real school employees find much reward in what they do to help kids, even if there are frustrations which prevent them from doing everything they want to do. But it's good to know that any restrictions in your real job which would prevent you from doing what YOU think is right would cause you to walk away from that too.

But I'm most impressed with your principled stance in not blocking the school door because you would get in trouble with the law. School board members on the other hand ... they are heartless cowards for thinking that they need to follow the law ... right?

Here you go "what the?"

Check it out:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?IPSD204a

Mainly two subdivisions on the list.

Mr. Metzger claims his e-mail containing the word MF-er was only intended for the rest of the board.....doesn't this clearly illuminate the type of language and vitriol the board uses towards parents that occasionally offer opposing views to theirs?

Once again Metzger's actions have exposed the district and taxpayers to another lawsuit. Surely this lays the basis for a civil suit by the victim and his parent(s)....not just for being called a MF-er....but it shows the prejudice he, the school board president, actually was stupid enough to document forever in digital detail. How did this guy ever pass the bar exam?... Has this poor kid and his family been "damaged" by these acts and comments? Absolutely.... I'd be shocked if they don't have a lawyer diggin into this.

Let's not forget Metzger was the moron who pushed for the very expensive, very dumb "quick-take" maneuver to acquire the Brock Brodie property. I will never vote for any of these incumbents seeking re-election and I hope y'all won't either. I can't wait til Jeanette Clark's term is up.

ANON 10: I don't need a mob. Believe me, the Glock could easily cover the door by myself. I would need no help. Of course your solution demonstrates ignorance because I would simply be arrested for my efforts as an individual or if my so called "mob" joined me as well we should. However we owe no apology to either of these districts nor do you of course unless you are feeding at the education trough in Napeville. Were I a 204 or 203 administrator, I would indeed expell the offenders from the school and proceed with my home tutoring plan. I would put the ball in the "alleged parents" court and force them to seek injunctive relief as I told you I would. You see, the law can be used to thwart the intentions of these "alleged parents" too. It seems to me if SD203 and SD204 can prevent a teacher from entering a school while under indictment for molesting a student, we sure damn well better be able to keep sexual predator students out for the same reason. And were I an administrator and unable to accomplish this in the manner I suggested, well my damn job as an administrator in public education simply is not worth it.

Wow - the Naperville Sun editors actually tried to introduce some actual facts into this discussion.

On the other hand ... Anonymous (at 11:13) and gb1:

Once again, Anonymous, you go off on broad generalizations without addressing specific facts, which I will continue to presume means that your opinion is based on a lack of understanding of (and apparently even a lack of care about) such facts.

Further, I well know what the presumption of innonence means and doesn't mean, and I know that guilty people can be acquitted, so I don't need your lecture on that. Besides, I have long presumed the two kids did a reprehensible crime as they are accused, so you and I are on the same page on that one point anyway. And I am more than familiar enough with the court systems to not expect that they can be guaranteed to work as we'd hope.

Moreover, merely because I do not say that anything that could be done to the perpetrators should be done notwithstanding the law does not in any way mean that I care about the perpetrators more than the victim. I know victims, I was close friends with murdered victims, and am familiar with the emotional aftermath for survivors, including the "anger, resentment and anguish" (I don't think this victim should feel shame, though from what I can tell you "sensitive" people who care about him so much better than me keep telling him he should). The pathetic crutch often used by people here to imply that not agreeing with THEM means that ONLY THEY care sufficiently about the victim is truly sick.

The self-righteousness virtually drips off of your comments, Anonymous ... YOU "feel for this victim" but "the school district has let him down" (I don't know why I even bother to ask, but I will one last time - what should the school board have done which they have not done??????????? - at least tell us that and then we can discuss whether it was irresponsible; until you specify that, all you're doing is showing yourself to be a shallow thinking self-righteous person who has nothing to offer but complaints).

Back to your self-righteous thoughts ... YOU "disapprove of 11 and 12 year old boys sodomizing each other" and "do not find such conduct to be socially acceptable or morally acceptable" whereas you high-mindedly allow that someone like me may disapprove of that judgment of yours ... "It is a shame that you [me] feel compelled to blindly accept whatever nonsense the school board chooses to say." Then you finish with my "subservience" over ... ta da!!!! ... unspecified broad generalizations about the board having "consistently lied" ... "consistently made really bad policy decisions" ... "decisions that ran counter to the wishes of the citizens of this district."

This garbage is getting so tired here. Again, I will fruitlessly ask - what are those lies? ... what are those consistently bad policy decisions? ... and what are the decisions which ran counter to the wishes of the citizens of this district? Either be specific or just admit that you really don't know much of anything about what the school board has done and just like to make up broad generalizations to feel self-righteous.

could someone please post what the actual allegations are with the boys? I've heard bits and pieces - but not all. I know there are a lot of rumors - just wondering what's been filed.

By MHH on March 11, 2009 8:16 AM:

Please post the link here or tell us where we can find it. I'd like to see this for myself. Thanks!

Heres a link to how the juvy sys. works...who knows maybe this case has already been moved to the adult court.

http://www.chicagocriminallaw.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCenter/Criminal-Law/Juvenile-Matters.asp?focus=topic&id=3

To anonymous 10...the juvenille court system does not operate in the same manner as the adult system. There are no lengthy trials with lots of testimony or witnesses. Usually just a judge but more likely a master. They are cranky, over worked individuals who see a slew of these cases everyday. If your kid lands in front of them, the assumption is pretty much guilty. I have a lot of experience as an advocate in court. I've NEVER seen a child walk out unpunished or a judge say "oh I can see you've been wrongly accused" It just doesn't happen. Sadly, they really don't have or take the time to delve very deeply into any of these cases. Most are resolved very quickly, like in minutes. I think people would be surprised to see the working of the juvenille court. It is not at all what most think it is. Just like most adult cases don't remsemble, in any way, the trials we see on tv. I have NO DOUBT that these boys will be punished to some degree. Remember, there are pictures and that is going to seal their fate.

By Anonymous 10 on March 10, 2009 2:33 PM

The two "alleged" perpetrators are "innocent until proven guilty" is a protection afforded all defendants within the judicial system in order for them to obtain a fair trial.

The legal presumption of innocence until the conclusion of the trial does not mean that they indeed are innocent or that they are not guilty of the crimes they are charged with committing. In many cases the only evidence is circumstantial so the system has safeguards.

Remember the videotaped gang rape of a young girl in Burr Ridge a few years ago? The sleaze-ball, scum bag defense attorneys got most of the defendants out of what they did. The legal system failed the victim. There was no justice. There was no fair punishment. Just lawyers making money abusing the legal system; a system created by lawyer with rules for lawyers, and which you have to be an inside player to have any part in. The legal system long ago stopped being about justice and fairness and now it is more about power and money. Just look at the OJ case if you don't understand what is happening.

When WE stopped caring about each and every victim is when WE allowed the system to erode and fall into the hands of these modern day mosters we call defense attorneys. When WE start caring and when WE start demanding legal reform maybe we will stop seeing the decline we have in our society where no one accepts responsibility for what they have done.

I feel for this victim. I feel for his family. The legal system has already let him down. The school district has let him down. A lot of crimes like this exist under a cloak of anonymity, but in this case that doesn't even exist. It is a shame you have no emotional connection or compassion for the life of anger, shame, resentment, and anguish this boy is very likely to lead as a result of what was done to him.

It is a shame that you care more about the "alleged" perpetrators than you do about the victim. I say let their families take care of them. I say let their lawyers take care of them. I say let the legal system take care of them. For the rest of us god fearing, law abiding citizens let us all, every single one of us, stand united and take care of this victim.

Disapproving judgement? Not hardly. The actual trial is a long way off. The outcome may or may not end up being what any of us think is fair or reasonable since there will be lawyers involved. Every trial has two outcomes. There is the legal verdict and then there is the social verdict. The social verdict has already been decided in a lot of peoples minds and it is each of our right to form our own opinion. Personally, I disapprove of 11 and 12 year old boys sodomizing each other. Call me old fashioned, call me heterosexual; the fact remains I do not find such conduct to be socially acceptable or morally acceptable with or without consent. You may disapprove of my judgement or the judgement of others who share my beliefs. At least I can say I fought for my country and defended your right to disagree with my beliefs.

It is a shame that you feel compelled to blindly accept whatever nonsense the school board chooses to say, whatever they decide to do, or whatever they decide not to do. Causes me to wonder why you are so subservient to something like a school board when they take their direction from the citizens not the other way around. Causes me to wonder why you are so subservient to a group like this school board which has consistently lied to the citizens of this district and consistently made really bad policy decisions that ran counter to the wishes of the citizens of this district.

To Bubo,

Though this blog is abut the tragic, and grossly mishandled, events at the middle school, it would be naive to NOT expand the discussion to include the teachers, unions, Board members, and politicians.

Why? Because all of those "moving parts" have contributed to this event, and others like it.

Anyone who actually believes the union does not have undue influence on the strategic and tactical direction of our school distric, our State, and our country has been living in a bubble.

Sometimes it helps to follow the money. Thus, I submit the question: WHY have the teachers' unions spent SO MUCH money trying to get Dianne MacGuire elected to a simple House seat? Why Did they spend SO MUCH money trying to get three candidates elected to the D203 Board? I mean, we are not talking simple contributions, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars!!!!

The answer is simple: to develop influence over others --- to harness power. By gaining such power, they create direct influence over our lives, effectively negating or diminishing our votes at the ballot box and our guidance as parents and role models.

So why do we talk about it now, on this blog? To better understand all the influences on this particular tragedy, and to help us prepare for the next one.

Since we have abdicated our leadership as parents, taxpayers, and voters to these special interest groups like the Teachers' Union, we find ourselves in a constant catch-up role in modeling our children and getting them prepared for the future.

We seem so complacent with test scores, such as the ACT, that we compliantly allow these interest groups to dictate the direction our children's education takes AND, in cases such as this tragedy, the legal recourse we have to correct it immediately and to never allow it to happen again.

Metger may or may not have been a good Board member for many years --- that is an individual call we all need to make.

However, just like the Principal in D203 that was fired/reassigned for plagerism last year, this single event mandates his dismissal from the D204 Board.

Metger's action, by itself, indicates an immeasurable level of contempt for the parents and taxpayers of D204.

His actions highlight his utter lack of empathy for the very community he says he serves.

His actions as the "top dog" in D204 tells both students and employees that might makes right, that rules and regs only count if enforced, that certain people are above both laws and rules.

In short, Metger's time is past and every day that goes on with Metger on the D204 Board is another day of embarassment for Naperville.

Of course, living in Illinois, we should all be pretty use to leaders of corrupt morals and being subject of disdain from other States.

Glock 22 ... you make my point for me. "Adults" complaining about the school and school board here remind me of 3 year olds screaming "I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I WANT IT NOW!!!", and crying and throwing a tantrum and blaming the closest person they can find for not getting it.

You say these "sick little sadistic juvenile defendants belong confined in the youth home", but you blame the schools for that not happening?

You say the kids should be barred from the school until the trial is completed, knowing the school and school board have no legal authority to do what you want?

You complain that school boards "complain that their hands are tied", yet you want the school board to willfully violate the law with you anonymously standing behind them so long as no one holds you responsible?

Pretty much the definition of a lynch mob mentality, Glock 22.

My questions were intended to get people to be a little more specific about what they are unhappy about, because in most instances the stuff they believe is just mushy minded thinking, as is your indication that if the school had followed your recommended "tract", the "assault in the school" may have been prevented. Since you brought it up, let me add a few more questions there ...

10. What was the "assault" to which you refer? A brutal beatdown, some punches, threats to kill the victim, pushing the kid away from him?

11. If you're so well informed, why do you call it an "assault" when the prosecutor has charged it as a misdemeanor battery?

12. As to when this "assault" occurred:

a. I understand it occurred the Monday after the weekend sexual assault. Do you know something different?

b. Why did the prosecutor not include the battery charge in the initial sexual assault charge? Why was it added only 3 months after the event at a time when a lynch mob had formed trying to find any reason to throw the kid out?

c. If the school did not even know about the sexual assault that Monday morning, how could your "tract" (tact?) have been followed so that "the victim would not have been assaulted in the school"?

13. Do you know whether the "assaulter" was actually immediately punished by the school when the "assault" took place?

14. Do you really know anything at all, or do you just want what you want and want it now?

My suggestion for those "courageous" people like Glock 22 who want the schools and school board to violate the law and their responsibilities is that they get a mob together and stand at the schoolhouse door and not allow the kid in. Do you people have the courage of your convictions? Or do you just want to hide behind the skirt of the school board and blame them for the frustrations in your life?

Has anyone gone to the list of signatures calling for MM to step down recently?

What a joke. Of the ~800 signatures, at least 95% of them are entirely from the south western section of the district (Tall Grass, White Eagle, etc), and total less than 3% of District 204 residents.

Anonymous 10: These two, sick little sadistic juvenile defendents belong confinced in the youth home and not in 204 or 203 schools in my opinion anyway. That is the first issue most people have. And I suspect that as their names and identity become more well known, it will be difficult for them and their disfunctional families to continue residing in the community. You and others can defend the school district or complain all you want about a lynch mob mentality and how the little cretins are inncocent until proven guilty. The fact is no one is lynching anyone however no one is going to accept juvenile child molesters or want them near their own children just like they would not want adult child molesters around them or their children. That simply is a fact. I think there are very good reasons for this attitude. You do not have to accept it but people such as I who believe that public schools should be safe do not accept quirks in the law or school boards claiming their hands are tied. Or the board president MFing the victims father. Some times you have to do what is right. The kids should have been barred from the school until the trial is concluded. They should have had tutors assigned to them at district expense in their homes. And if some cheezy attorney thought otherwise, let their parents seek injunctive relief. A judge can decide if the school district violated the statutory duty (not constitional right to free public education) to education paid for at public expense. Had they taken this tract, maybe the victim would not have been assaulted in the school after the sexual assault and just maybe 204 residents would have been more supportive of the board and held the grudge against the judge at his or her next election.

I don't think that we should even be discussing what the schools should do about these boys. Obviously the law has tied their hands. The ultimate responsibility to remove the boys from the 2 schools in question is with their parents. As parents we can't continually expect that the school systems are going to clean up the messes we create at home...yes, at home. Anyone wonder where these boys learned to do what they did?

Again with the broad generalizations, so I'll try to be specific:

1. "The board mishandled this from the start." When was that?

2. "Colleges and high schools discipline their students for off campus hazing all the time":

a. Are the laws governing colleges and high schools the same? If not, why do you even bring them up?

b. What do you mean by discipline? Take away extracurricular privileges (thrown off a sports team for drinking)?

c. Can you specify an instance in which a non-convicted under 18 student was thrown out of school for off-school conduct.

d. If they could do that (in Illinois at least), why are they trying to change the law to allow it?

3. While you insult people because you are talking about a responsibility to THIS victim, does that mean that the school has no responsibility to anyone else, or that those responsibilities cannot conflict with the responsibilities to THIS victim?

4. You want "justice for the victim, the full force of the law applied", and yet only the court system can do that. Why do you blame the school board for not doing what the court system is supposed to do but has not done?

5. What "lame excuses" have been given by "parents who can't admit that their kids are troubled"? I mean excuses from the "parents", not those who make up stuff on blogs when criticizing them.

6. Have you sat down and talked with all of the parents in this instance, including those parents supposedly making lame excuses?

7. If you have not talked to them, can you both be compassionate and say that there is nothing you could hear which would not change the extreme disapproving judgments you have made here?

8. What exactly do YOU say the school should have done and should do?

9. How does your answer to 8 differ from what has been done?

People here so easily form extreme judgments about things and people even though they do not have answers to a lot of questions. Sometimes, when they get the answers and they conflict with their self-righteous conclusions, they ignore them.

I find that to be pretty sad too.

Why on earth can't the parents of these 2 boys take responsibility for their kids actions and choice to abuse this other child?? Why can't they remove their children from the public schools? Honestly, half of Naperville knows who these kids are. One boy was taken out of Gregory and introduced to 900 new kids at Lincoln who now know his story. Nice going mom and dad. How is this a good choice? An opportunity to start fresh, make new friends? I don't think so. The kid is an outcast with admin shadowing and highlighting his every move. A continuous reminder to all who see him what he is accused of. I'm sorry, there is NO presumption of innocence here. There are pictures!! The thought that these boys could be that cruel is so sickening to the rest of us. Why isn't it to the parents?

Wow, not only broad generalizations, Anonymous, but ignorant too.

"Very self-center [sic], self indulgent community." "Prozac'd stepford moms." "Glazed and totally ignorant." "So completely dysfunctional". "Resident[s] out of touch with reality." "Heads in the sand about what their babies are doing." Parents "brag endlessly." "Overinflated egos given by equally narcissistic parents".

As I read your screed, all I could think was "Wow, this person has issues." And that you have structured a world in your own mind in which you are superior because everyone else falsely thinks they are superior. How conceited they must be for them to ignorantly think (in your mind, anyway) that THEY are superior when it is YOU who is superior to them, right?

It also appears that your concern, first and foremost, is that the remaining perpetrator should be moved from Gregory, and that you live in the Gregory area. Do you notice any irony/hypocrasy in your overriding disapproving judgments that these terrible Naperville people "are only concerned about what affects them directly"?

Sorry anonymous 10, I completely agree with anonymous 12:29. We are talking about this particular issue and their responsibility to THIS victim. If this Board doesn't know what to do, there are examples from all around this country of how districts have handled juvenille offenders. Colleges and high schools discipline their students for off comapus hazing all the time. Gor God's sake, there are pictures of these boys crime. The Board mishandled this from the start. People want justice for the victim, the full force of the law applied. We don't want more lame excuses from parents who can't admit that there kids are troubled. We don't need a board that protects offenders.

I wonder, just wonder ...

If Anonymous were a crime victim, how would he/she feel?

If Anonymous had close friends or children victimized, how would he/she feel?

If I did not agree with whatever Anonymous wanted done to the criminal, does that mean that I have no compassion for Anonymous?

I have had close friends murdered, Anonymous. Everyone who knew of it showed me tremendous compassion. The fact that they and society could not and would not do all that I wanted done to the murderer to make me feel better and safer did not mean that they had no compassion.

You've thrown some broad generalizations around, Anonymous ... about what they've "failed to do" ... "continue not to do" ... not knowing "what the right thing to do is." Tell me, Anonymous, you're the answer person - what specifically are those things? It's all so easy, tell me what those things are.

You should be ashamed for your simplistic insults to people whose responsibility is to more than just one crime's victim, and who have voluntarily sacrificed to shoulder a burden which you so self-righteously criticize from the peanut gallery.

"sad"....unfortunately boundaries are an issue that still stings many in Naperville. But I find that this is the typical reaction/response in this very self-center, self indulgent community. Most are only concerned about what affects them directly. many still don't believe that 2 naperville darlings could be involved with something so heinous. I'm sure that there will be lots of excuses and blame shifting. These kids parents haven't even accepted that their kids committed a horrible crime...if they did, their kids would be in treatment center, not in our schools pretending like nothing happened. But many others are spreading the word that these are "nice, well mannered boys, with lovely parents" Unbelievable, but spread by our neighborhood pack of prozac'd stepford moms. Glazed and totally ignorant to the fact that what goes on in the rest of the world also goes on in Naperville. In a lot of ways, this community is so completely dysfunctional and it's resident out of touch with reality. It's no wonder we have children committing such crimes. Far too many parents have their heads in the sand about what their babies are doing when their not around. Far too many parents (and they brag endlessly) want to believe in the illusion that just because they live in Naperville their kids are super smart, super talented and gifted at everything they do. It just isn't the reality. Most of these kids are going to come crashing down due to the oveinflated egos they've been given by equally narcissistic parents. It's going to be a tough road for these 2 boys. Nothing in N-town has prepared them for the challenges of a detention facility...and juvy court is NOT like adult criminal court. If your child finds himself in front of a juvenille judge, the presumption is guilty.

Sad,

Is it sad the the Democrats in Springfield, who roll over and beg for the teachers union on command, blocked legislation by D. Senger to address the problem in the future?
======================================
By sad on March 10, 2009 10:16 AM

Why is it that all blogs on potluck end up about teachers, and boundaries??? Please this is about a tragic event in Naperville.

I wonder, just wonder...

If these same school board members and the top administration were personally sodomized... how would they then feel personally about this issue?

If these same school board members and the top administration had a child who was sodomized... how would they feel personally about this issue?

Most of us have more compassion for animals than what the school board and administration has extended to this family. They should all hang their heads in shame. Shame for what they have failed to do. Shame for what they continue not to do. Shame for letting the community down. Shame for having no moral compass. Mostly shame for not having the presence of mind to know what the right thing to do is.

You had better have a good reason for not printing this that was posted this AM around midnight.

Here is a link to another district's SB member having to resign the board over an incident using inappropriate language

http://www.studentsfirst.us/news/contentview.asp?c=147600

Here s link to Sunday Naperville Sun editorial asking for Metzger's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466088,6_4_NA08_EDITORIAL_S1.article

Here is link to article referring to sitting SB member Vickers asking for MM's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1468614,6_NA9_Board-member-calls-for-Metzger-quit.article

Here is a link to the latest petition going around asking for MM's resignation from Indian Prairie School District 204

http://www.petitiononline.com/IPSD204a/petition.html

I understand another petition is being drafted asking for resignation of all remaining SB members (x-Vickers) and Superintendent Daeschner - especially after the latest revelations including these following quotes demonstrating that the Superintendent and the SB could have acted even without a new law to protect the 11 year old victim who was also attacked on campus (looks to me like their hands were not tied):

Sun Newspaper 3/9/09

Indeed, in his Feb. 23 presentation to the District 204 board, Canna made it more than clear that the board can assign students to whichever school it sees fit.

"As long as that decision is not arbitrary in nature, the administration would have the right to do that," Canna said. "It could be in connection to a discipline situation, it could be in connection with a variety of other situations."

That said, Canna stressed that it is Daeschner, his staff, and the school board who must determine if reassigning a student is a good idea.

Daeschner outlined his thoughts in a Feb. 25 e-mail to residents:

"If a student is not in a safe environment, or a request is made by the family, a student could be moved to another school within the district," he said. "...A forced move to one of our other schools is an option"

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466978,6_1_NA09_GREGORY_S1.article

Please note an additional battery charge has been filed against the alleged attacker for the on-campus incident.

Please also note that Susan Rasmus (candidate for SB) and Cathy Piehl (current SB member and candidate for SB election on 4/7/09), both id not feel Metzger should resign from the SB and gave supporting comments in the televised candidate forum.

Regarding the article on School Security in yesterday's Sun.

Headline:

Superintendents for heavily unionized Schools state:

"IT'S NOT MY JOB"!

Why is it that all blogs on potluck end up about teachers, and boundaries??? Please this is about a tragic event in Naperville.

I'll be quite honest. I swear. A lot. Yep, I have a bad habit and I'm not proud of it. Wish I could control it. But then again I'm pretty hot headed too. Go against me and I'll let you have it with both barrels and a few words that would make a sailor blush.

Go ahead and beat me up over it if you want. No one better than me recognizes my own failing and nothing you can say or write isn't something I haven't already thought of or said to myself.

Despite all of this I have been writing letters and memo's for almost 40 years. I was using the internet and email on the military side way before it was ever available commercially. I've had plenty of heated exchanges, arguments, and flame wars in my time. Despite my self-acknowledged potty mouth I have never, ever used a swear word in anything I have written, much less call someone a m***** f*****. Never even considered writing something like that.

Yes, I am rude and crude and certainly not an educated lawyer, but even I know that you just don't do certain things.

Here is a link to another district's SB member having to resign the board over an incident using inappropriate language

http://www.studentsfirst.us/news/contentview.asp?c=147600

Here s link to Sunday Naperville Sun editorial asking for Metzger's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466088,6_4_NA08_EDITORIAL_S1.article

Here is link to article referring to sitting SB member Vickers asking for MM's resignation

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1468614,6_NA9_Board-member-calls-for-Metzger-quit.article

Here is a link to the latest petition going around asking for MM's resignation from Indian Prairie School District 204

http://www.petitiononline.com/IPSD204a/petition.html

I understand another petition is being drafted asking for resignation of all remaining SB members (x-Vickers) and Superintendent Daeschner - especially after the latest revelations including these following quotes demonstrating that the Superintendent and the SB could have acted even without a new law to protect the 11 year old victim who was also attacked on campus (looks to me like their hands were not tied):

Sun Newspaper 3/9/09

Indeed, in his Feb. 23 presentation to the District 204 board, Canna made it more than clear that the board can assign students to whichever school it sees fit.

"As long as that decision is not arbitrary in nature, the administration would have the right to do that," Canna said. "It could be in connection to a discipline situation, it could be in connection with a variety of other situations."

That said, Canna stressed that it is Daeschner, his staff, and the school board who must determine if reassigning a student is a good idea.

Daeschner outlined his thoughts in a Feb. 25 e-mail to residents:

"If a student is not in a safe environment, or a request is made by the family, a student could be moved to another school within the district," he said. "...A forced move to one of our other schools is an option"

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1466978,6_1_NA09_GREGORY_S1.article

Please note an additional battery charge has been filed against the alleged attacker for the on-campus incident.

Please also note that Susan Rasmus (candidate for SB) and Cathy Piehl (current SB member and candidate for SB election on 4/7/09), both id not feel Metzger should resign from the SB and gave supporting comments in the televised candidate forum.


Spoken like a male...actual separate male & female salary schedules. No one is that stupid. No it is where they place you when you start. Heck even Harvard's female faculty are upset with their placement comparable to men & their opportunities for advancement. You are total clueless I can tell. Again you would not have the Ledbetter law if it was not needed. Why did both presidential candidate discuss equal pay on their platform? There are so many forms of subtle discrimination. And some areas different specialities are paid more in teaching so you really do not know what you are talking about. No one is aruging yrs of service, say if on maternity leave. When was that brought up. Just simply first time faculty male vs female. Ask any teacher when it comes to negotiating a contract what would happen if they did not have a union! OMG! When are the Naperville teachers up for negotiation? Ask them!

To: Anonymous on March 9, 2009 6:10 PM

You think if he didn't send it to the father, but it still went to the other board members and super of the district, as well as the ippc president that it would have been ok?

Please tell me you're kidding about that.

You do know that district policy states that the recipients of that email (even if it only went to those mentioned above and not the father) would be required to report it and the father would still find out about it.

See how we are in the same predicament? This is why I said it's a line that should never have been crossed and it's not the fact that he sent it to the father that is the issue. It's the fact that he sent it to anyone. That's the issue, and that's why he needs to do the proper thing and step away completely.

I absolutely would vote for Mark Metzger again. I have been impressed by his control and his handling over several issues. I've watched him and observed him and always felt he was fair and professional. It is unfortunate this email was sent to the father - I'm sure Metzger feels for all families involved, he was obviously venting some frustration here - we don't know all the facts on what has transpired with the interaction of the families and the board - I'm sure it's very emotional. All I know, is that I hope I never mis-hit the send button with the wrong addresses attached - this is the danger of email. I feel for all involved here.

To: Anonymous 10 on March 9, 2009 4:27 PM

Have you seen the projected budget deficits over the next 5 years?

No one's going to be 'generous' with any more money around here. It's hard to be generous with something we don't have.

I don't think anyone has discounted or diminished anything Mark Metzger has accomplished over his long school board sitting. In my personal opinion (and many others) he crossed the line that should not every be crossed. Now, out of respect for the district needs to remove himself from the equation so the entire district can get beyond it. I suspect since he's served for so long in a 0 pay job as a school board member, his love for the district will be of the level it needs to in order to see and do the right thing now. The remaining board could always hire him as a consultant if they need to. Win, Win.

As they say, Original Joe, the cemetery is filled with indispensable people. Life will go on, the schools will get run, etc. whenever Metzger leaves the board - now or in 2 years. That does not mean, however, that everything will be better without him. A more compassionate board without him seems to me to be more likely to be be more "generous" with taxpayer money for teachers than would be a board with a supposedly heartless guy like him. All I'm saying is that he has been on the board 18 years, has been elected 4 or 5 times, and I can't believe he is completely worthless based on the latest current hot-button emotional issue. He has definitely made mistakes in the last few months - some big mistakes (though not nearly as many as attributed to him) - but I cannot find myself judging him solely based on a few things these last few months of those 18 years either.

There appears to be a person who can handle the role of president or at the very least board member. That was my observation at the candidate forum last week. Crockett was the name. He said he is a lawyer and CPA. More importantly, he appeared to understand the budget from a business perspective. Does he have a website? Anyone know? If Metzger does resign and the paper and community's request, that would leave two remaining board members and five new ones. As much as this board looks bad, having five new board member is a little concerning. At the very least though, there will be four.

To: Anonymous 10 on March 9, 2009 3:40 PM

Thank you. I was unaware of how the process worked. Do we have 6 other current board members and an administration that can not do this role? Perhaps we need some serious business people on the board in case Mr. Metzger resigns or gets voted out in 2 years so we do not find ourselves in such a pickle of having no one able to negotiate a contract.

Any reasonable place of business (and this district is a business) has multiple role redundancies and contingencies in case someone ever gets hit by a bus, so to speak, so the entity can still survive, function and move forward business as usual. The idea is that one person leaving or departing does not sink the business because it can not function without them.

Do we not have that safety net in place within District 204? It should be the responsibility of the current Board and Administration to make sure we do.

Original Joe - My understanding is that there are administrators involved in negotiations, but that the board has ultimate control. In the past, I understood that Metzger was one of the primary board persons involved in those negotiations, which involved much more than just final approval of whatever was brought to the board by administrators, and I presumed that he has been even more involved than normal this time due to board inexperience.

His attitude is obviously not good for sensitive matters like dealing with the parents at Gregory, but that same attitude may be good for other matters like contract negotiations (just like a board member's sensitivity to people who are complaining might not be so good for taxpayers when the teachers come asking for more money).

Maybe that is why there are 7 board members. Like a team of teachers, you do not want them all experts in history and marginal at math - you need at least one person who is proficient in each topic. What do they say? Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

No School Board member wants to be involved in dealing with an incident as horrendous as the one perpetrated against the Gregory student. That said, since the original assault was committed off district property, the District Administration and Board are subject to oversight from agencies and authorities outside the School District. Despite the nature of the crime, all involved are quite clearly juveniles and fall under the mandates of dealing with minors.
Safety of all children is of utmost importance, but hate forums such as these serve no purpose. A better vehicle might be for those who feel strongly that some changes must be made to join a district-wide committee. It's easy to criticize and claim that this or that should have been done, but it is much more difficult to get a committee of citizens to agree that your conclusions are the correct conclusions. Put your time to good use, and work with, not against, the School Board to create alternative settings for these students.

What The ? - In the various blogs I've read, it was first a punch, then a punch and a threat, then two punches and a threat, and then a beating. So far I hadn't seen that it had evolved into beating, a threat and a switchblade or handgame, but give it time. I wasn't there whenever it happened, so I cannot say for sure. Based on what I've heard, I personally believe what I described is what occured. But me believing one thing or another does not mean that that belief is what happened. Like probably everyone here, I only know what I heard and try to base my beliefs from filtering that information.

No Simple Answers: First I heard it was a beating, and then the victim was punched in the stomach. At least something was done. Thanks for the info!

"By Anonymous 10 on March 9, 2009 1:19 PM
Can we assume that those who sign the petition for Metzger's resignation will not complain when the compassionate and inexperienced school board after the upcoming election gets steamrolled by the teachers in the current and future contract negotiations?"

Does the board negotiate the contract?

Can we assume that those who sign the petition for Metzger's resignation will not complain when the compassionate and inexperienced school board after the upcoming election gets steamrolled by the teachers in the current and future contract negotiations?

Kevin:

Maybe my spelling story was off-topic, but it is true. The misspelled words in the classroom probably wouldn't have been such a big deal if they hadn't happened during a SPELLING UNIT. Get it?

I was in the classroom on two random occasions and caught errors both times. If these were the only two all year, I'd say that was a pretty remarkable coincidence. I don't think it's a stretch to think there were probably more. I blew off the first occurrence, but after the second I kept a more critical eye on my daughter's vocabulary lists and written work in general. I never saw spelling errors on the unit word lists that were brought home. These lists looked like they were copied from a teaching source. It appeared the errors occurred when the teacher was transferring the spelling words elsewhere--cards or the blackboard. Evidently she did not follow the spelling on the lists the children got or the errors would not have occurred. Hopefully she learned to check her spelling against the lists at some point.

Ok, so spelling wasn't her strong suit. The only ones who knew about it at the time were us two and, of course, my daughter as I had to correct her work and tell her why. I didn't make a big deal out of it with the teacher or go complaining to the principal. I simply took responsibility on my own to check the English work my child brought home for grammar or spelling errors. Easy enough.

I really have no opinion on teacher salaries in 203 or 204. I'm also not getting into the union debate. All I know is that both our children have absolutely thrived in this school district. Both my daughers won the Young Author writing awards in elementary school, my youngest also being lst runner up a second year. My oldest won the state level science fair competition in middle school, beating out over 140 other finalists in the physics division. She also entered a film competition her junior year in HS and won a summer scholarship to Columbia college. Both girls are high honor roll students, one in the top 10% of her HS class, the other in Project Arrow and loving it. And my college bound daughter has received two scholarship offers so far, one for $34,000 at an in-state school, the other for $36,400 out-of-state. I'm not complaining.

Would they have been as successful in another district? Perhaps, as coming from a household with two college educated parents probably plays a role. But in every single encounter I've ever had with a teacher, they have bent over backwards to work with me and my children on any issues they may have had in school, whether academic or social. I couldn't ask for better, despite the spelling incident. Yes, our taxes are high. But even my husband, who I'm convinced is the cheapest man on earth, grudgingly admits we're getting our money's worth. So I'm staying out of the union/compensation debate. The proof for us is in the results.

RESIGN NOW!
Save us FROM YOUR MISERY
Metzger
Daeschner
Severson

Kevin, strongly disagree with you. If we strive for mediocrity and forgive or even expect regular errors or transgressions from our educators, then mediocrity is the best we can ever expect. That is doing our children a disservice. Let's first raise the bar for educators, and then, ultimately, for our children. Give them a goal they can attain and challenge them. They are bright, eager to learn, and capable if we give them the proper tools and the opportunity.

In answer to your question, What The, I heard that the "beating" was the kid pushing the victim away when the victim approached that kid for some reason at school on the Monday following the incident. The kid was then sent home for the rest of the day as punishment. This all occured before the school knew what happened the weekend before. To throw him out of school now for that would seem to not be punishment for the in school incident (he was already punished for that), but would be an arbitrary punishment for the off-school matters which they cannot punish him for. I don't think that many kids get expelled for any long period of time for pushing another kid. At least, I hope not.

But I could understand wrong. People who want the kid out seem to believe there was a "beating" which occured, and that the schools are so callous that they don't care if one kid "beat" another one at school. That seems pretty unlikely to me, but who knows.

What happened to a "speedy trial"? If the accused sex offenders at Gregory Middle School had had a speedy trial, the case would be settled by now. Under the circumstances, because the school district can't take any action, a trial right after the incident should have been given priority in the courts in order to get the "perps" out of the school system if they are indeed guilty. This delay is unfair to all involved and to the community.

District 204 seems to be focusing on bizarre issues.The turnabout dance is an example.The students were warned prior to the dance that only "vertical dancing" would be allowed.I know, noone understands what that means,The Neuqua students were policed by a large team of Deans and dean assistants who corrected the students constantly throughout the dance .Dont get me wrong I am a very conservative mom who believes in supervision but this police action created a situation where well behaved kids were rebelling and laughing at the administrators.I doubt that that the majority of the students were dancing inappropriately.The principle seems to be creating problems where none exist.He suggested that this dancing leads to sexual assault( in an e-mail sent home to parents)Has there ever been a sexual assault linked to a NVHS dance?I guess dealing with this ridiculous issue is more important than the real problems the district has

One Who Values You on March 8, 2009 1:24 PM
To the person who thinks women's salaries has nothing to thank unions you are clueless! Equal rights did by all means help but when you have a union negotiating a pay scale to go by & to compare your salary to others to it does make a difference. It is still not perfect but it made a huge difference than it was before. Talk to older workers & teachers in particular! Talk to them even today. There is research that still shows women of the same level do not get paid as much as men. We have to fight for our level on the pay scale. I had to just a little over 10 yrs ago even. It is pathetic. Those who just retired in the last 10 years will tell you what it was like prior to unions. And it still does not guarantee anything...what do you think the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act that Obama just signed was for! So that women could have more time to bring their case to court.

_______

OWVY, This equal pay argument has been around for a long time. I would like someone to publish the two "pay scales" that seem to exist. One would be labeled "Mens Salaries" and the other, "Women's salaries" - I'm sure the dist 203 or 204 HR departments can supply it? We can then compare your claim. (Good luck finding it because this does not exist,in either public or private companies I might add.)

If your claim is that "any teacher" teaching a particular course, say Social Studies, should be paid the same amount with the only difference being education level (bachelors, masters, Ph.D.) I would submit this is one of the problems with the current education system. Unions have argued that teachers are paid based only on achieved degree's and not on competence.


You claim that, "There is research that still shows women of the same level do not get paid as much as men." I would like to see this data. Perhaps there is an outlying factor? I would venture to say that if you review two social studies teachers (Male and Female) over a 20 year period with equivalent masters degrees. The Male will have spent 20 years teaching, while the female took at least 5 years off (probably more) somewhere within this time to have children. Are you saying that in this case both teachers should be paid the same? After all, they both have the "same level"? I contend that male and female workers with identical education levels, and "uninterrupted" years of service are paid equal amounts. Also, I'm not saying equal rights have not been an issue in the past, they have. I'm just saying that the current environment has all but eliminated the disparity.

By anonymous on March 8, 2009 9:39 PM

Well said. Very well said. I didn't move here because it the best place to live. That was a nice bonus. I think it is true in some respects. Naperville does have a great park system. The school system, we'll have to see. My opinion is 204 is way too big. To add a third high school doesn't make sense. They should keep the Naperville schools along with Neuqua in one district and the Aurora schools in another district. Then Neuqua should be split in two somehow. I realize that would require more capital spending but that is what should be done.

As far as unions. The teachers union is a joke. See the destruction the auto union is causing the auto industry. The teachers union is the second biggest union in the country.

As far as the real topic of this blog. Good for the N Sun. About time.

Does anyone know when the court date is for the 2 boys? It looks like the court is going to have to resolve the mess that 204 administration has made. Hopefully the judge will order them into a facility for young offenders. I would hate to see leinency or special treatment shown to them because they're from Naperville and have good attorneys, money and so on. Honestly, if this would have happened in Aurora or Bolingbrook, the kids would have been kicked out of school long ago. Everything districts 204 & 203 do are based solely on the potential to be sued by parents. It's unfortunate, but parents here are part of this mess. If they'd just take responsibility for their kids actions instead of threatening to sue and finding someone else to blame all of the time things would function more normally.

Response to

By One Who Values You on March 7, 2009 9:32 PM

I have not, nor would I. They don't have unions for entrepreneurs. We are not living in the 20's. You are going to have a hard time selling me on unions. When I see the union label, I think inflated prices.

Part of the problem is many just want to look at what is going on in school & money spent on it. This is not the only variable which influences how well students perform. There are so many variables which have nothing to do with the school & money spent. What goes on in the home makes a HUGE difference. How many hours are the kids spend watching tv, playing their electronic games, IMing/myspacing etc on the computer, texting on the phone ETC! Do you even know how much time, especially if both parents are working? Track it for a week. You might be surprised. Don't start with a black and white point of view. Don't look for just one variable to "blame." First look at all the possible variables. Then try to find how each of them are influencing students learning process. You can't come up with solutions until you know clearly what are the problems. I hope you noticed the "s" at the end of each of those words!

Again, I think you guys are missing the point. Why aren't you first staying on the topic of the blog. Second, you see some grammar or words spelled wrong, so what? I don't mean to suggest I don't care about it at all, but last I heard teachers were human also. 'What the?' you saw 2 and thus suggest there may have been an incredible amount. It could have also be the scenario that these were the only 2 in the whole year. We can go to either extreme of course. Lets say it is somewhere in between for the sake of argument, I'm sure it isn't the case this teacher is aware it is spelled incorrectly & does not care. Don't you think in every occupation people spell words incorrectly and have poor grammar? Heck, how many articles in the news are on Jay Leno for us to laugh at. These teachers are burning the midnight oil sometimes preparing. They may be just as upset when they see they had made an error. Ever find an error in a textbook? Many times I find spelling a problem or say the answer in the back of the book for a math problem is wrong. Again, I'm not saying this is not important, I'm saying you are just making this a more important issue than what the topic of this post is suppose to be about.

You do know that in English Writing courses each decade had a different philosophy of teaching. There was a time period, actually still exists in some places, when English teachers just wanted students to write freely and creatively and not worry about spelling and grammar. Yes, there is now a consequence to this approach. We have generations who are now adults and have problems as a result. This is not there fault.

Also, if you think about it, K-12 teachers take college classes but do not have to get As in all classes, much less 100%. Your child's teacher may have received a C in English writing classes, thus they will have errors. What did all of you receive in your college English Writing courses? And those who teach college are not required to take education courses nor take anything more than their Freshman writing courses. In addition, they are still arguing about other topical courses in college which do not require writing. Some do not require a term paper much less other forms of writing. You have some teachers who simply have students fill out bubble sheets a few times a term. Some say it is because students are not prepared to write, especially lower levels. Students complain when you grade them for spelling and grammar..."This is not an English class". These are the same students how complain "This is not a speech classs" when you ask them to make a presentation. Do you also realize that in community colleges it is an open door policy. This means students can take some topical courses and be at developmental writing and reading levels. Don't make fun of the people who are a product of an education system which has long been problematic.

Enough on this...if you don't understand something anyone has said on this blog, don't make that the issue, simply ask what they meant and keep your replies to the nature of the topic of the blog. This forum is to present viewpoints and possibly solutions about the safety and emotional effects of having the victim confronting the alleged everyday.

What the?

Yeah I am anonymous from above. My kids are the poor underprivileged kids that attended the small 148 kids K-8 grade school west of DeKalb and then Rochelle High School (financed and run on those underprivileged tax rates and staffed with teachers earning underprivileged wages). I guarantee you I never found misspelled words on any of their elementary spelling handouts and never ran across writing skills as I have mentioned above while they were being "underprivileged" through high school nor to this day as they are continuing with their education, utilizing the degrees (as listed above) they obtained with honors and careers that are growing in an economy that is challenging for the best of the best.

When will Naperville realize that the primary reason the kids in this community do as well as they do probably comes from support and motivated, engaged and educated parents in the home, not assessments on property. School boards and teacher's unions in this town are outliving their appropriate common sense purpose, and are out of touch with the country and community's current financial climate if they think they are untouchable or can't make a change to lower community education costs while still providing a successful education for our young people. Salaries in this country are resetting in all sectors and lifestyles have in the past been lavishly built on money that often really isn't there, money that also isn't really there for an over-inflated education budget. This lavishness is ending with tighter available credit for all. It's not a bad thing, but growing pains must be addressed while things set back financially to where they should be. I don't want to hear that we are paying less than whatever North Shore community blah blah blah is. If Naperville and it's residents are having financial difficulty, then address it here at home, do not compare us to something we are not. Why does Naperville think they have a monopoly on successfully educating children and feel that so much per student is never enough to achieve this success? For what is spent, I would hope the kids here would perform even better than they do on testing, with the opportunities they have and the dollars spent on them. It's a pretty narrow perspective, thinking education here could not be successful at a lower price.

My kids are but a blip within the thousands and thousands of children in this country that obtain undergraduate and graduate level degrees with honors from school systems that spend a fraction of what Naperville spends, communities that spend a much lower percentage of their actual annual net worth on education with success. In my opinion, this town should get rid of it's pretentious attitude and reorganize the system, as many companies are doing to stay in business successfully at this time. The climate here has been a free-flowing faucet of money with undertones of staying on top of the list of best places to live in America. Well it's time to really evaluate what the community needs to serve it's residents best in order to retain the best mix of these residents. Living here should not be a facade of excellence and success, it should BE excellence and success. If we were to define that in more economical terms that the community could pay for with a more practical percentage of it's resident's real annual incomes and what property is really worth, then everyone would win.

To anonymous on March 8, 2009 3:27 PM:

I don't know if you're the same anonymous as the one above, but I have an interesting story that might put OWVY's grammar in perspective. Both my children attended White Eagle Elementary. When my oldest was in the second or third grade, I really can't remember which, they had a program called Star of the Week, which probably all 204 elementary schools have. I was allowed to sit in on the classroom for about an hour and watch my daughter present the poster board she had made on her life, family, friends, pets, etc. While waiting for her to present, I was able to watch the class go through their vocabulary exercise. The teacher gave each child a large card upon which was written a word. They took turns going to the front, showing their word, spelling it out loud and giving its definition to the class. One little girl had a word that I recognized was misspelled. Just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I found a dictionary in the classroom and looked it up. Sure enough, it was. I mentioned it to the teacher on my way out.

Several weeks later, I was in the classroom again with several other moms giving the Valentine's Day party for the class. This time the vocabulary words the class was studying were written on the blackboard at the back of the room. Once again, I saw a misspelled word and confirmed it with a dictionary. Not wanting to embarrass the teacher in front of the other moms, I wrote her a note with the correct spelling and handed it to her on the way out.

If I was in the classroom only two times the entire year and found a misspelling being taught both times, I wondered how many others had gone undetected before that. From then on, I kept an eye on my daughter's vocabulary list and other grammar work. Needless to say, English was not this teacher's strong suit!

TO Anonymous on March 8, 2009 12:54 PM:

I understand the school board's hands are tied to some extent under the law. The law makes no provision for what the school board can do to intervene in felonies that are committed off of school grounds. If they had removed or suspended the attackers, their parents could have sued the district.

But this is what I don't get. One of the attackers in the off-school ground event assaulted the victim again ON school grounds. Couldn't that boy have been suspended for the on-grounds assault? It seems the school assault gave the school board permission to act against this boy, but they did not. Why was this boy not suspended for beating the victim while at school? Anyone know?

One of our teachers, One Who Values You writes:

"To the person who thinks women's salaries has nothing to thank unions you are clueless!"

"We have to fight for our level on the pay scale. I had to just a little over 10 yrs ago even."
---------------------------------

Now Kevin, I'm not trying to be unkind, I'm just saying that this blogger is talking about the teacher's union and it's protections, while writing in a manner that would never be allowed in a middle school English class. All the while we hear what an attribute this teacher is to the profession, so much so they are being offered a research position. I have no problem with English as a second language and there are always opportunities to have research manuscripts handled and reviewed by editors. However, if this teacher is excelling in the classroom with our children, shouldn't mastery of written communication come with that?

As I said, I'm not trying to be unkind, but this example is right here on the blog and it's not personal, it's a question about someone that claims to do well in the classroom while being paid public dollars and yet shows a constant lack of mastery with the written English language. I have no other information other than what I see here, I don't know if it is a problem with what this teacher is able to accomplish in the classroom, but if it is, what are the salary and job security consequences for a teacher that does have problems with mastery of the subjects they are hired to teach?

D204 Board is, for the most part, incompetent. What a mess they have made of this situation and now their mess has spilled over to 203. I seriously hope that 204 parents are banding together to clean house over there. The manner in which this situation was handled was completely incompetent. Your Board president should be constantly reminded of his horrendous actions until he gives up his seat. I'm fairly certain that 203 will handle this tranfer boy in the proper manner. I'm just betting that he'll be expelled the minute he looks at someone the wrong way. They're just waiting for an excuse to boot him. Also, shame on these boys parents for not owning up to the crime they committed and getting them the help they desperately need. It's so apparent that all they are trying to do is save face. How selfish of them.

To the person who thinks women's salaries has nothing to thank unions you are clueless! Equal rights did by all means help but when you have a union negotiating a pay scale to go by & to compare your salary to others to it does make a difference. It is still not perfect but it made a huge difference than it was before. Talk to older workers & teachers in particular! Talk to them even today. There is research that still shows women of the same level do not get paid as much as men. We have to fight for our level on the pay scale. I had to just a little over 10 yrs ago even. It is pathetic. Those who just retired in the last 10 years will tell you what it was like prior to unions. And it still does not guarantee anything...what do you think the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act that Obama just signed was for! So that women could have more time to bring their case to court.

I agree back on topic but if someone is going to make statements like this I can't let that go.

To the last Anonymous...it is not the unions that kept Metzger in, it is the teachers in particular...just like it is not all people in Naperville, but those who voted for him. Don't make generalizations like that.

HEY! All you whack jobs! Enough with y our petty rants on other topics already!

This topic is about Metzger, Dr. Doolittletonothing, and the rest of our merry bunch of elected nincompoops as it relates to sexual assault, protection of students, and concerns of parents.

TODAY THE NAPERVILLE SUN CALLED FOR METZGER TO RESIGN. I applaud the Naperville Sun for exhibiting some community leadership during a troubling time and backing up it's position with a fair and logical explanation.

Now it is up to all of us. We have to put pressure on Metzger and each and every other elected school board member and each and every school board candidate to stand united and demand his immediate resignation.

The newly appointed school board president needs to exhibit his leadership as well by calling Metzger and demanding his immediate resignation. If he is unable to exhibit this much basic leadership during a period of community crisis then we really have to begin to question his capacity to serve as well.

There never is a good time for a festering sore to linger around unresolved. All things considered this is the worst possible time for a situation like this to persist. If Metzer truly cares for this community he will do the right thing and he will do it immediately.

Kevin & One Who Values You:

You are both so right. One only needs to read the teacher/union bashing that goes on on these blogs to understand why teachers need protection under a union. It's unfortunate that lynch mobs still exist today, and teachers are the objects of such disgust. But since the bashers are at church today, they have special dispensation to play the blame game.

To those of you who work in other fields, you have protection from being fired. It may not be a union, but there are definite protocols in place in your places of business. You all know it. You all see excellent co-workers get laid off, and some that should be fired or laid off that are protected for whatever reason. The only difference is that you are not paying their salaries with your tax dollars, which is ultimately what you are all pi$$ed off about when it comes to teachers. Until someone figures out how to change that, get over it. Everyone here wants great property values. Good schools and teachers give us that and it costs money out of our pockets. Even pets understand that nothing in life is free.

As far as the school board/district and this situation, their hands are tied under the law. Parents are the primary educators and guardians of their children, as many above have said. The "alleged" offenders should be in lockdown under psychiatric care. They are minors in the eyes of the law, and it is a parental call. Like many, I'm astounded that the parents of the "alleged" think that nothing is wrong with their children, and they continue to go along as if nothing has happened.

Lastly,please - Be wary of the "Slate of 4" as the answer to your school board prayers. Some came knocking to get petition signatures to get on the ballot. They couldn't express what they stood for. The didn't get any signatures.


OWVY: Yeah, thank god for the unions! I always look for the union label and sing the union workers anthem too when ever I am buying something or delivering my children to the government school. But back on topic. The Sun correctly but grudgingly has an editorial today asking that Mr. Mark Metzger resign from the school board and it is high time he do so. But for one person to make that position into his personal fifedom of goverment is not an obscene abuse of power. Rather, it is the result of an ignorant elctorate. The same ignorant electorate that for example keeps returning Jeanette Clark to the board. It is true, elections have consequences and we simply must limit everyones term to one. It matters not if they do a good job or bad job. They get one bite at the apple before someone comes in with fresh ideas. Something tells me that if Metzger and Clark as only two examples were limited to one term, we would not be dealing with the kind of attitude as displayed that we are in this case. Imagine, a board member refers to the father of a child who was beaten within a Naperville shool as a m--f---er. On the topic of elections: bad sign wih the OWVY union when they issue an approval or support a board candidate. That ladies and gentlemen is the begining of a cozy relationship that will lead to spending referendums every election cycle. It should tell everyone something is wrong when the labor union is in the boat with a candidate. Secondly, anyone Mark Metzger appointed; another bad choice. He did not appoint anyone who does not share is ideas and some of his personality traits in dealing with others. Third, anyone who was supposed to be on Mark Metzger's email list for that email; another bad choice. So lets look at the candidates and make sure new people that are not carrying baggage are elected.

Unions, teachers, pay scales, taxes....what about these boys who continue to be loose in our schools? This is the issue at hand. I have 2 kids at Lincoln and while they are handling this kid like he is a serial killer, I think that they'll eventually let down the guard. I'm concerned what will happen at that point. We have 2 groups here...one that is seething with anger and wants the kid out now and one group that is spreading emails about how well-mannered and nice this boy is. How he is a victim himself but has really "lovely" parents. Although I really doubt that this group is encouraging their children to befriend him. I'm hoping that the court will order both of these kids to a facility for inpatient treatment. That is really the only solution. Obviously both sets of parents aren't taking ANY responsibility for their boys' actions, typical Naperville "it's someone elses fault" attitude. I am very concerned that the court will have leinency on them because they are from Naperville and they certainly can't be or grow up to be bad people in any way, not with lots of money, nices clothes and cars etc.. This whole incident should have Naperville parents rethinking their own attitudes/beliefs about their kids. It's time for many to face the facts, be more realistic. Naperville kids do as many (certainly get away with more) ugly things as those less advantaged kids in cities we look down upon. Since, we've moved here from one of those less desirable places, I've got to say that I've seen more precocious, obnoxious, ill-behaved children here than the "lower class" area we came from. And as far as the schools in 203 and 204 being so top notch...that's a crock, an illusion, a fallacy. But that is another discussuion...

Unions had nothing to do with womens' salaries ---- that was from the equal rights fight (and I will add that for the SAME job, there is no difference in salaries by sex ---- the issue is raised when someone decides "comparable" jobs differ).

Unions are bad...ok, all you union people who read this post chirp in!

Anonymous have you even worked under a union? Talk to those who worked prior to having a union & you will understand. This is the issue...one person disagrees or thinks someone is bad because they have a different view point or belief system & they are fired. Pathetic. Women's salaries would be even more pathetic. People of different cultures would be more discriminated against. Many of you posted complaining you are in business & can be fired for any reason, but then you complain about unions who protect people from such firing. How does that make sense? You can't have it both ways. One person does not get to be dictator & define everything when you have a union. Rules are not allowed to be changed as the wind blows & to serve one person's ego and then only to be changed for the next person's ego. If they are bad at their job you should be able to prove it & fire them but how does one define being bad? That is the problem. What one person feels is bad another may not. Everyone has a different philosophy of education. Then there are some who do not even have an education degree and believe they know what is best. You have some parents who are like their child, saying, "What does my child need to know this math for." No, I'm not saying this is true of most parents, but there are some who will complain about everything & anything.

Kevin,

You are feeding right into the point. Gross neligence which is what I would consider the current sup is guilty of. And he is still employed.

But still. It takes something short of an act of God before a teacher can get fired. You can fire them for being disengaged or simply being bad at their job. That can't happen. That is because of unions. Unions are pure and simple bad no matter for teachers, electricians, whatever. There is zero use for them in this day and age.

Just stick to the topic & be nice. Also try not to generalize all teachers. It would be like if someone stated all Electricians are union, get paid too much, do not care if their pants are below the crack of their butt, blah, blah, blah. Whenever you state something is true of all, you are likely to get into trouble.

In addition, tenure does not protect a poor teacher from being fired. You can be fired for gross negligence. You have to go through union procedures though. It requires that others take responsibility and do their jobs correctly though. Academic Freedom is one of the protections of Tenure. Faculty should not be fired just because they disagree with viewpoints of the school or having their own ideas on some topic. If this protection was not in place faculty would not be able to entertain creative ideas. Heck, Einstein may have been fired for his ideas. Some do argue though prior to receiving tenure the young teachers/professors are conforming to what is desired by the school. Talk to some teachers/professors who were around before tenure and unions existed. It was just crazy. Another benefit of unions, though still not perfect, was salary assignment. Prior to unions salary assignments were so discriminating.

It is also amazing how this country views teachers so different than other countries. This may be one reason our children are not performing as well as other countries on standardized test scores.

I have to agree that I'm sick of hearing how underpaid teachers are. They are more than compensated - at least in this area - for what they do. If you calculated what my husband earns an hour - I'd be sick - he works round the clock - never having his cell phone (or computer) off - even for vacations. For those really effective teachers who reach students - I commend you- unfortunately - there needs to be more of you. Take a look at the boy who committed suicide in the bathroom - really heartbreaking to me - why wasn't the teacher in touch with what was going on there - they have more knowledge of the social stresses the kids are under. I would love to see more compassion among teachers and helping kids adjust socially with creative intervention.

To: By Anonymous on March 6, 2009 2:38 PM

Spoken just like a current School Board member in 203 when it was mentioned to her that the older folks in town are having a tough time with the taxes.

Like that Board member, you are an elitist.

Children need guidance and supervision. These kids need their parents not the School Board or this blog.
Keep an eye on your kids!

I understand what you are saying Kevin. One Who Values You often speaks of accomplishments in his or her field of teaching and working with children. If this blogger is teaching my child to write and communicate or correcting my child's writing, I would be very concerned by what I see produced on this blog.

That was more of my point, I did not explain well and I get a little confused with One Who Values You's boasting when what is written by him or her should not be shared as a skill in the classroom. The topic had gone off in the direction of teaching, salaries and quality of staff as many topics here go on a tangent.

"That is a pathetic saying that those who do not like what someone is teaching or counseling them to do says!"

What does this sentence mean? Honestly, for someone that works in education, One Who Values You writes more lines that I need a diagram and spreadsheet to understand than most anyone else I read on this blog! It also seems to get much worse with the late night posts from this blogger.
******
I could figure out what it meant. Nice way to deflect off the point this poster was making though. I don't know many people who do not get worse the later the night progresses. Hell, add a few beers in there and I'm not the most coherent. Then add the wife interrupting, my kids needing something & then the dog begging to go out and I'm lucky I finish my post without any errors. Some have perfect grammar but what they say is so illogical. Try not to make fun of people and just stick to responding to the point they are making. There are plenty of people in Naperville who can not speak beautifully, perhaps do to grammar but also native language etc...try to see through all that & listen to what they are saying. All should be valued. When you don't understand someone for any reason, either speaking in front of you or in their writing, just be kind and say, "I'm not sure what you mean by this, can you explain this further." You can choose to be a kind spirit or mean and make fun of people. That choice is up to you.

By FreshBread on March 4, 2009 12:08 PM
"The poor handling of this incident demands the resignation of Mark Metzger, Stephen Daeschner, the rest of the school board, and the Gregory Middle School principal...for the following reasons:
1. 3 month cover-up of the incident
2. lying to the public regarding the details
3. failure to protect students in school from attack and ridicule)
4. essentially protecting bullies with felony sexual assault charges
5. discussing district business via an off-district system server
6. excluding other board members from email and discussions
7. not acting immediately to move the 2 assaulters to other schools
8. calling victim's father a "M'F'er" for trying to protect a child
9. open meeting violations - meaning breaking the law"
-------------------------------------------------------
Your reasons are NONSENSE!!!
1. Not true. Gregory officials separated the kids so as they would not be in the same classes nor see each other during passing periods unless they deliberately walked in the other's path.
2. Lying is not the correct word. The accused are 11 and 12, therefore MINORS. They are protected by the law for their actions, no matter how disgusting.
3. See 1
4. See 2
5. Do you use a gmail account? I'd bet you do. And I bet you use it for work purposes.
6. ?
7. See 2. Accused are ACCUSED. Accused means they're not guilty and cannot be punished as so.
8. Victim's father signed a restraining order against the accused which also allowed the accused to STAY AT GREGORY! He then continued to come to board meetings and bitch about why the accused were still at Gregory. Very frustrating, IMO.
9. An executive session is not an open meeting violation. Happens every day.
--------
In response to the above note and others...
1. Not true - how do you know? Did MM tell you? As a parent in the district, a note should have gone out the next day, to the parents explaining that police had filed felony sexual assault charges for an ALLEGED incident that took place ALLEGEDLY off-campus, and police filed an additional battery charge for an ALLEGED attack that took place ALLEGEDLY on-campus. As a parent, I would want to know what happended immediately, and what actions have been taken. However, this did not happen as I understand it...until it reached the papers ALLEGEDLY.
2. Lying means "withholding information as they know them" (a cover-up) from parents until the newspaper published information, implying all attacks took place off-campus when an attack occured on campus. The primary difference for juveniles is the names are not shared with the public. Just in the last day or so, the district again referred to the incident taking place "off-campus" as if that was the only ALLEGED location involved. On top of this there is cell phone pictures shared with students on campus! - clearly demonstrating what was done.
3. YOU NOW See 1 and 2.
4. How about "not protecting victim's then" - yikes!
5. There are very specific rules governing school board's on the attorney general's website. Includes email use, circumventing public, etc. Maybe someone can put them up on the blog.
6. I think he/she means Vickers not copied - maybe?
7. Putting kids that have CHARGED WITH A FELONY SEXUAL ASSAULT, in an alternative learning environment does not hurt them in any way. Remember, our district is supposed to educate the kids - where that takes place should not be much of a change for kids CHARGED WITH A FELONY SEXUAL ASSAULT. Looks like the district made the mistake because the victim was attacked ON CAMPUS again and charged for that as well. POOR JUDGEMENT....ahhh errr..ALLEGEDLY!

Regarding the SB elections, the only thing that should be discussed on this thread is how it relates to the Gregory incident. The luny tunes trying to hijack the thread for political purposes (like boundaries and dissing some group of candidates running on a platform of transparency, etc. - slates of 2, 3, 4 having run before), makes me cringe a bit.

Now along those lines related to MM incident, the other board members other than Vickers have supported MM even after the incident, so you know what's going on there and voters need to remember who those board members are - Stephens, Tyle, Piehl, Bradshaw, Clark.

Finally, at the candidate forum, Cathy Piehl and Sue Rasmus were the only 2 who supported MM remaining on the SB. Neither said NO to the question - "Should MM remain on the board?", and proceeded to defend him. Voters need to remember this as well when it comes time to vote. How can anyone continue to support MM given the email alone?

Respected Teacher: An apology is due and given. My posts can come off; sometimes overly antagonistic. I agree with many of your comments. Some I do not agree with. But I and others bristle that a Jefferson student is tossed out of the school for bringing an air soft gun to school yet two sexual predators remain now, in each school district. Or some girl making her own statement on a T-shirt is disrruptive, the shirt is defaced by a teacher because the message is disrruptive when we are all supposed to be gay for a day! (Come on already) In another example, some young man has a small pocket knife in his pocket and is suspended or maybe expelled (I forgot the outcome) for bringing a "dangerous" weapon to school. But two sex offenders remain in school. Two sexual predators remain in the school systems because they are innocent until proven guilty and they have a constitutional right to attend school. This is BS. These are examples of peculiar school system discipline and in my opinion, not very good examples of social justice for those of you interested in social justice rather than statutory justice. No doubt teachers and administrators have a tough job to do. I think this incident is much more important to get right than the others I mentioned. The fact that they dropped the ball in this case while dropping the hammer on the aforementioned lesser offenses is a reason for much of my clamour. And then came Metzger. Its ladies weekend in Naperville. Lets go see if I can find Mimi and buy her a drink in celebration!

Why are you people arguing about teachers? Most of us love the job our teachers are doing and truly value them and the work they do. Just ignore the others! This is a blog about the D204 SB and their handling of this truly disturbing incident. To the writer who suggested the only people who should really be concerned about this are the victim and perpetrators families, you are so wrong. This is an issue that really concerns our entire community and as a community we stand up when we feel there has been an injustice. Most of us were horrified when we heard this story but did not get involved. Then when the victim's parents were at the SB meeting and the father dared to speak while MMetzger is banging his gavel and threatening to remove all that dared to defy him and then to have the father removed by police force, I think many were shocked. And lastly to send out that email referring to the Dad as a MFer because MM was throwing a temper tantrum just was the breaking point. I also wonder why Cristine Vickers was not copied on the email. She has been the only SB member that has stood up to MM in the past. Is she routinely left off of SB memos as punishment? Is she being ostrasized by the other members for not doing everything the bully MM wants her to do? Just seems a little odd that she didn't receive this nasty email

"That is a pathetic saying that those who do not like what someone is teaching or counseling them to do says!"

What does this sentence mean? Honestly, for someone that works in education, One Who Values You writes more lines that I need a diagram and spreadsheet to understand than most anyone else I read on this blog! It also seems to get much worse with the late night posts from this blogger.

Anonymous...

That is a pathetic saying that those who do not like what someone is teaching or counseling them to do says! There are many teachers who are coming into teaching after many years as an attorney or in business. There are many teachers who work in corporate as well consulting (depending on level!) We have some teachers who work with scientific labs etc. What are you thinking? Counselors do teach in a classroom and as their job...what do you think they are doing? Providing more tools a person does not have already to deal & handle life. That saying just shows how ignorant someone is about teachers and counselors! Many of us also CHOOSE to teach. I have been told by many of my professors that I apparently have some strong research abilities & they were trying to push me into research. I don't enjoy it really. I don't wake up wanting to run studies or crunch numbers. I want to use research results & help others in their lives with the results. We all don't do the occupation we have the strongest strengths for. Some of us like the challenge of learning a new field and growing & getting better with each day. Also, this idea from the past that each of us only has one area we are good at & we should do that our whole life is just not the case these days. Many people will change occupations midcareer & not because they have to. You know someone could say those who do can't teach & there is something to be said about that. Police officers teach & counsel, doctors, nurses even lawyers teach and counsel, heck even people in business teach part time in a classroom or even on the job they teach others and counsel. Have you even thought critically about sayings like this before you just repeat them? Heck I have my students even take things like "Birds of a feather flock together" and then say ok now how about "Opposites attract". Another "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" but then "Out of sight, out of mind". You need to think about these...and NO that is not a place one can say "You Think Too Much!!!" Problem is many in society do not think enough! That is why we have people who are drinking & driving, not wearing seatbelts...heck what the heck is this brother in law of Peterson even doing taking a blue barrel from his bedroom for? Wouldn't you say what the heck is this? Give me a break! And I wonder why I like Pooh so much..Think! Think! Think! :-) Although Tigger is my favorite!

Well, my kids went to Creston IL K-8, 148 kids total and then to Rochelle HS out in the sticks with lower property taxes. There's this thing about small classes--nothing better for kids in the lower grades.

I have a 27 year old son that did the highest level of national security clearance aeronautical electronic engineering (keeping you and I and the F16s safe from enemy radar) and now has his MBA and still works in national security clearance in the private sector, making large contributions to our country and managing 80 engineers that work worldwide.

Also a 24 year old daughter, suma cum laude and valedictorian in pre med out of Bradley, finishing her doctorate at Northwestern.

20 year old son studying architecture at UIC.

My God Daughter, graduating also from Rochelle HS was valedictorian out of Lewis U. in chemistry and has a very high level position.

My God Son also out of Rochelle HS graduated top of his class in architecture from IUC with many job offers in Chicago.


Yeah, poor underprivileged kids.

Might I suggest that if you feel you are paying too much in taxes and that the teachers here are paid too much, you might move. There are plenty of places where teachers are paid less and property taxes are much lower. In some of those places you might be able to get twice the house you have here for the same price. Then your children will also have the benefit of a school system that lower taxes and lower salaries produce.

What was that saying?

Those that can do.

Those that can't teach.

Those that can't teach work in the counseling department.

In response to Anonymous on March 6, 2009 11:17 AM

Right On!! You are so correct! I also value what teachers do, but know that they aren't the only ones who are working hard and making a difference.

By Anonymous on March 6, 2009 11:17 AM

In response to above post. Unions are so amazingly destructive. Couldn't agree more.

To: By Respected Teacher on March 5, 2009 9:23 PM

I respect what you are saying and I actually understand it. However, being married to a teacher, I find it is just as important for the teaching community to ALSO have some empathy and understand where we, the non-teaching community, is coming from.

We, too, spend extra time getting additional schooling, degrees, seminars, etc. The major difference is that we are forced to fit in into, and around, the rest of our personal & work life year round! I will go out on a very thick limb here and say a 65 hour work week, year round, is in the ballpark and THEN we do family stuff, take clesses, get an MBA, etc.

Now, you talk of salaries. I would suggest you take a very, very close look at the actual data and not get caught up in the emotional arguments on this one. In D203 the average salary is well over $75k with an avergae "time on the job" of 12 years!

That is HARDLY a fraction of what the business, or law, or baking, or research, or marketing, or personal services community is paying! In fact, when put into a yearly view, it is ABOVE the average with 12 years in those areas!!!

You talk about the potential to impact lives --- that is true. As teachers, you have that potential. Yet, you dismiss the potential AND the actual impact on lives by the non-teaching sector.

In my arena I have hired about 1000 people. By doing so, I take on the responsibility to ensure they can earn a livlihood to pay for their families expenses, their children's schooling, their medical needs.

A lawyer takes on the responsibility of representing all of us in the court system, of keeping us out of jail, not losing our money to irrational lawsuits, getting the criminals off of our streets.

The researcher tirelessly looks for cures to the diseaes that shred our family structure and, in fact, our lives.


Finally, you use as a point of argument a very small slice of the business community to to make your argument on the delivery of goods and services. With tens of thousands of busness in the United States, you pick out the infinitesimal exceptions of failure and greed that are centered on around 60 of the 50,000 companies to select from! Hardly a rigorous argument.

I purposely held off THIS discussion to the end:

Despite working on average WAY MORE hours (or risk getting fired), despite working for on average about the same pay, despite having potentially great impact on the lives of others, we have something you do NOT have --- the high risk of being fired for basically anything! Wrong haircut, bad shoes, burped in a meeting, you name it, we can be gone!

Teachers, on the other hand, are from the planet Krypton! Tenure insures that as a teacher represented by the strongest union in the United States, the concept of being fired after four years or so is so foreign as to be non-existent outside of some (not all) sexual issues. You are virtualy untouchable no matter what the level of your performance.

The short of it is that the teaching profession, like any fairytale, was "once upon a time" a sector of underpayment. Those days, like the fairytale, are from a time long. long ago.

To be clear: Your profession is very well compensated, even more so when you factor in hours required and stability of the job.

I would suggest that the teaching profession should perhaps spend a little less time diminshing the rest of us, threatening strikes, and grabbing more money.

That you should spend less time telling the rest of us how bad you have it.

I WOULD suggest that teachers spend SOME time walking in our shoes (as you have been asking us to do for years) to understand that you are no longer the mistreated profession, that we actually do understand your value, and that especially when times get tough we DO wonder why you are so protected and WE are so HIGHLY TAXED!

To respected teacher:

School is out, the bell just rang. You have truly educated a bunch of bloggers. I would love to see your comment printed in the papers to demand the respect that our 'educators' don't get. I work in corporate (for the pay) and respect you for doing a job that I know I couldn't and wouldn't do.

Unfortunately this country has fell to pieces because unqualified people are in the position of CEOs & CFOs, they knew someone who knew someone. Anyone they come in contact with who knows more than them they fire or isolate at the expense of the company.

Incompetence ruined this country along with that legalized gambling called the stock market.

Get real:

Oh, it's THIS blog you were referring to. Ok.

If you were around during the Metea dispute, then the reactions you see here shouldn't be a surprise to you. Folks are "piling on" the school board, not in defense of the Gregory people, but because of the way mostly MM and Dr. D. have handled it. Yes, a lot of the posters don't know all the details of the incident and some acknowledge the SB is between a rock and a hard place in this situation. But that doesn't justify MM's M*****F***** email. This is what has brought out the venom and hate spewing. And then we learn that Dr. D knew about the incident but kept it under wraps from other members of the board for quite awhile and has also been less than compassionate with the victim's parents, and on and on. Dr. D isn't under fire for doing the best he could; he's under fire for doing nothing.

You're wrong that all these posters don't know the school board members. Many probably know the school board members very well; they spent untold hours with all of them during the boundary decision and later during the dispute over the new site for Metea. They know all too well why many in the Gregory community are upset, and it has nothing to do with Metea. It has everything to do with the board leadership itself.

In response to respected teacher post.

This is getting off the point of this blog but does have some relevance.

I fully respect what teachers do for our community. It is a job I know I would not have the patience for. And for the most part, I do think there are some good teachers out there.

BUT. Here is where the problem lies. Unions and tenure. There is no viable reason that teachers should be in unions. None. It is not like teachers are the being treated like immigrant workers on a manufacturing line in the 20's.

If someone could explain to me how a physics teacher can get all the education possible and make lets say 100k for simplicity and then the gym or drivers ed teacher gets the same level of education and makes the same salary. If someone could explain the rationale behind that, I would love to hear it. I'm not suggesting there is not a need for gym and drivers ed. I am suggesting a physics teacher is probably at a different level from a teaching perspective than the gym or drivers ed teacher.

Also, why can't teachers and in this case superintendents be fired? Or principals? More times than not in the real business world, the sup would have been fired for negligence. And if the principal at Gregory is this bad, same thing. Teachers too. Obviously there are a number of teachers that are in teaching for the "easiness" of it. Shouldn't they be weeded out to get someone in who actually has an interest? Why can't that happen? It would happen in business. Get rid of the bottom 10% every year.

One Week and Counting - Mr. Metzger Resign Now

One week ago, in a moment of apparent fury, Mark Metzger’s actions crossed the boundary of acceptable conduct for any current or future School Board member in our community. His vulgar and vindictive email directed at a parent advocating for his child is public behavior we cannot and will not tolerate.

We forgive the man for his very human faults in that moment. At the same time, we recognize that as a public leader he must resign from our School Board for the good of our community.

His position in the Illinois Association of School Boards (IASB) is not a sufficient reason to continue to place our children at risk. The public outcry and continued clamor continue. The media circus continues to divert needed attention and focus from our schools and children who need us the most.

Thank you Mr. Metzger for the many years and countless hours of volunteer service you have given. Do not further tarnish your legacy by trying to ride out the storm. Deep inside you understand the grave severity of your error. Please do the right thing for our community and resign from the School Board today.

parentAdvocate

Respected Teacher -
People like Glock will never get it. I am not an educator, but I come from a family of educators. It seems that there are people who just want to go against the school system for whatever reason. They assume that their kids go to school from 8 until 2:30 and thats the work day for a teacher. Most of them have never been by a school in the summer to see the number of teachers working. Nor do they realize that the administrators have to be around whenever there are after school activities. That means that most administrators start their work day between 6 and 7 and often do not leave the school until 7 at night. If you are in administration in a jr high you usually have supervision duty 3 times a week. At the high school level most administrators work every night. After they get home at 7 they need to deal with the tasks that they were not able to do during the day as their day is constantly interrupted by parents and student discipline issues. This means most of them are calling parents and checking email until late into the evening.

By Anonymous on March 5, 2009 9:18 PM

Could you please explain too me how the person who was not elected and therefore is not a representative is responsible for this?

McGuire is not responsible for the vote, the politics of Springfield is. If your group goal was to defeat Senger at the next election, it would be bad politics to allow any of her bills to see the light of day. She can then be painted as ineffective. This bill has great political value in this area if it had passed through it would be a great feather in Senger's cap, therefore its not going to happen.

Naperville has just as many and the same ugly problems as any gritty, lower income area in the country. It's residents are just a lot better at putting on a drug-induced smile and pretending that their kids are exceptional in every way and that their lives are perfection. I guess that if you commit sexual assault and go home to a nice big house and ride to school in your mom's Escalade with your Hollister outfit on it some how isn't as ugly. The parents in this "pleasantville" need a huge wake up call.

To Anonymous at 1:14....I totally agree. These perpetrators need to be removed immediately, have extensive psych. evals and continue treatment at an inpatiient facility designed to rehabilitate sexual offenders. Unfortunately, we have parents at Lincoln circulating emails about this boy urging us to accept him, telling us that he is really a nice, well mannered boy with lovely parents. As a new resident of Naperville I am continually baffled by some the this towns parents. Are half the city's moms on high doses of Prozac or what? Some of the attitudes are so delusional. Many Naperville parents need a BIG dose of reality, or at least a field trip out of this lala land.

From the sheer stupidity communicated in several earlier posts I think now is an appropriate time to point out that overwhelming vast majority of children who "act out" in a sexually aggressive manner like this towards other children do it because they also have been sexually abused themselves. These children harbor deep resentment and anger over what has been done to them and, in part, are seeking a form of revenge against the people who abused them by doing the same thing to other children. They were overpowered and subjected to abuse, now they overpower and subject others to abuse. The truly sad part of all this is that a repeating cycle of being a victim followed by being a perpetrator creating a new set of victim/perpetrator only continues to spread the hurt and pain.

That is why the perpetrators should not be roaming around free to seek out new victims. That is why the perpetrators should be in the process of being clinically evaluated and treated themselves. That is why our tax dollars have already paid for the construction of youth facilities with barbed wire around them to keep kids like this within a safe place until such future time when they are deemed mentally fit to rejoin society.

Why DCFS is not involved with this incident is one of the biggest mysteries of this case.

Hey susiesue: Everybody is on edge for good reason. The administrators are out in front of Lincoln because there is a sexual predator in their midst. Most sexual predators are not allowed within 1000 feet of a school. They have to register their residence with the local police. They are on the ISP sex offender website. Well two of them are not. And two of them are in our public school systems. This kid is disrupting the learning enviornment at Lincoln. Seems to go against the SD 203 mission statement doesn't it? The parents should not be in the picture any longer. The kids should be in the custody of DCFS and the state should be working at making them wards of the state. Anyone wonder where an 11 or 12 year old learned sodomy???

From what I see, some of the "4" have nothing but coaching experience as far as community involvement goes and now all the sudden they want to run for the SB. Maybe they should think about getting more involved in our schools then go for a seat on the SB. Have they attended SB meetings other than last year re: boundaries. Lets get Coach Buttermaker to come out of retirement and run too.

Are they slated four running for one spot on the board? If that's the case - I would not vote that way.... I have to agree that the intentions here are suspicious...

This is in response to Glock 22,

I understand your anger at the school board, and possibly the other school leadership team, given the situation which has transpired. Unfortunately, you offended me as you turned your frustration against the leadership toward the "educator" population. I don't know where you get off lambasting the teacher population or "educators" (in quotes) as you want to call us. First, let's compare your job as a businessman and our job as teachers. We'll start with your perception of the work year. Though it is true that we "educators" are not in a classroom 12 months a year, many of us spend our summers taking courses toward graduate-level degrees, writing curriculum for the upcoming school-year, making new materials because, though we are "tax-grabbers" as you put it, we don't always have the resources to do all we need to do. We may not be in the classroom 12 months a year, but I guarantee you we also are not sitting with our feet up eating bonbons all summer long. The difference between us and you is that while we are at school, we are with the kids for the majority of the day. That means in our evenings and weekends, we are planning lessons, writing reports to parents, doing report cards, entering test data into the computer (that's right, we "educators" don't have secretaries to do all our paperwork and data entry for us), etc., taking away the time we get to spend with our families, so that we can help your children be successful. We don't get hour-long+ lunches at fancy restaurants, nor do we get to fly on fancy private jets. Instead, we scarf down our brought-from-home lunch quickly so that we can go help children who need extra help or get materials and manipulatives out and organized for the next lesson that is coming up. Additionally, since you decided to address the administrators, had you done a little research, you would realize that they are on 12-month contracts!

Now let's talk about salary! Many of us have advanced degrees, just as you in the business world often do! Yet we receive a small portion of the salaries that you do, and our jobs have a way greater potential to impact lives. I teach children to read and write...what do you do that serves the greater population? Though I don't feel I receive the compensation that I should for what I do, I also didn't go into teaching for the money. I went into it because I care about children (as most teachers do), and when I am long gone, I hope that my time here impacted many, many lives. You know the saying, when you are gone, people won't remember the car you drove, the house you lived in, or how many toys you had. They will remember your character and how you impacted other peoples' lives. That being said, maybe if teachers were paid similarly to that of a person in the business world, maybe just maybe, more qualified people would be attracted to the profession. I think you also confuse your ability to run a business or survive in the business world as proof that you are qualified to run a classroom. I would love for you to spend a day, week, or month in the life of a teacher and see how successful you are. I have had many professional parents come into my classroom, spend a day in it, see all that goes on and say there is no way they could ever do this. My husband, who is a very successful businessman, being one of them. Have you spent any time in the classroom?

Finally, your point about how if you in the business world don't deliver goods or services, you lose your job or go out of business and are left looking for new jobs. Explain to me then why when I turn on the news every day I hear about another business who has failed being bailed out by, that's right, taxpayer dollars. Need I mention AIG, other banks, the auto industry, etc.? In fact, some of the CEOs of these government bailed-out companies are still receiving millions in bonuses. I could work my whole life as a teacher and not make what many of them make in a year. Once again, I don't do it for the money. I do it for the children. I hope next time before you decide to make ridiculous and condescending comments about us "educators", you will spend some time in a classroom yourself and respect what we do for your children everyday!

"By Anon on March 5, 2009 9:35 AM
It is widely believed that the Teachers Union controls the school board and for practical purposes controls the Democratic Party.

So the questions are, why is the Teachers Union keeping Metzger in a job and why did the Teachers Union Kill Darlene Sengers bill that would protect our children?

Should McGuire and her Democrat supporters and partners in Springfield pay a price for blocking this legislation for petty reasons like jealousy, envy, hate and revenge?

I know I am going to hold McGuire responsible for this bills failure.


By marcus aurelius on March 4, 2009 7:28 PM

Darlene Senger's bill lost in committee not because of cultural differences between Naperville and Chicago, but because Darlene beat McGuire, a former teacher a former union official, and a candidate strongly backed by speaker Madigan. "

Could you please explain too me how the person who was not elected and therefore is not a representative is responsible for this?

By Anonymous on March 5, 2009 7:30 PM
Does anyone know where the "Slate of Four" live??
***********
The attendance areas are as follows: one in Fry (WV), two in Welch (NV) and one in Watts (MV). Nice to see that three elementary areas are represented, as well as all high schools.

I hope people really take the time to become truly educated about these candidates, as well as the others, instead of throwing up conspiracy theories and uninformed opinions on the blogs - we've had enough of that over the last few years, haven't we? It's time to start acting like an actual community again.

Get Real -

You are right. The number of direct victims in this matter is small. However, you are discounting the very important aspect of COMMUNITY in your argument. Many are rushing to condemn Metzger's unacceptable behavior and show their support for another community member. I would like to think this is how a community is supposed to respond. After all, we all could be the next one's needing the support of the community. Using your logic, we don't need policemen, firemen, clergy, etc. These worthy professions are all unnecessary if everyone takes the attitude that everyone's problems only belong to themselves.

And no one is gloating about a "new group of victims". Quite the opposite. We are mostly appalled that there actually IS a new group of people subjected to Metzger's apparent contempt for members of the community that express an opinion differing from his. And what are we to make of the fact that the rest of the SB has not publicly condemned his comments?

ONH
I must say I have not missed you and your sarcastic and childish mauling of my name. It happens to be Greg, not Greggy.

I am here. took me awhile to read all these posts. This whole situation sickens me and I feel horribly for the family of the victim as I am sure you do as well. Pwerhaps we can agree on this? I also feel badly for all the other families touched by this horrible situation. Also, no one has really commented on the alleged perpetrators famly/parents. That cant be easy either, but I would say I agree with one of the other posters. I cant beleive the parents arent pulling their kid out and getting their kid some help. Also, once the legal scenario plays out; moving and getting a fresh start. With the economy and housing market; this may not be feasible for many/most folks or the 2 families of the 2 alleged "perps".

In regards to the rest (M2 letter, board action or inaction etc. etc). What is there to say?

* M2 will not step down from the board voluntarily
* current board will not remove him
* Elections will happen 4/7
* Either fresh perspectives will win seats or....
* they wont and we get more of the same
* M2 runs for re-election in 2011
* either he gets reelected.... Or he doesnt.
* I dont think he will....
* ....but we still have to endure 2 more yrs....
* of his "leadership"

Perhaps the new board in April would consider deliberations on calling for his removal from the school board? At these meet and greets; I wonder if anyone is going to ask each candidate whether on not they would support removal: yes/no and reasons why? This would be interesting to hear.

Cheers
GF

-----------------------------------------------------
--By ONH on March 3, 2009 6:49 PM
Where is Greggy Forest?

Does anyone know where the "Slate of Four" live??

For all of those that feel Mr. Metzger should step down completely from the school board based on his most recent actions, there is an online petition to that affect.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?IPSD204a

Dist 204 Parent.

Great post. Thanks. I dont understand the people on this blog who want to make the SB out to be such ogres that they need to resort to name-calling to make their points.

What the

It is the people on THIS blogthat I see spewing venom and hate -- toward the SB -- again. I was here during the entire Metea debate. And I agree that this one has not yet gone that low.

My main point is that this situation is entirely different from the Metea situation. Yet I see people making comparisons, and in some cases gloating that a NEW group are now the victims of the same board that victimized them in that instance.

But NONE of the people posting here are victims of ANYTHING. They are simply witnesses to a group of people (the SB) trying to make the best decisions they can in extremely difficult circumstances. Both in this situation and in the Metea dispute. And because they don't like the decisions the SB have made, they feel justified making making blanket statements about board members they do not know and who are dealing with a situation that the posters do not have enough knowledge of to make any reasoned or informed judgements. And that makes these blogs read very much like they read during Metea dispute.

The bottom line is that the only victim here is a little boy who will likely have a heck of a time dealing with what happened to him. And two other families whose lives have been turned upside down. I have great sympathy for all of them.

This continued mess IS the parents fault. I can't understand how or why the parents of the boy who transferred to Lincoln thought that moving down the road would be a solution??? Everyone at Lincoln knew what was up the first day. Police don't usually hang out ALL day. The admin staff NEVER hangs out in the front of the building in the morning as kids are waiting to get in. News of this kid spread like wild fire as did the angry parent emails circulated around the neighborhood while parents gathered everywhere to talk about this. How absolutely, unbelievably uncomfortable for this kid! No friends, people just stare. Staff follows him around, kids talk about him. How is this a good choice by the parents?? It's ridiculous. Sorry, parents need to take responsibility for their kids actions. He needs to be in treatment and will eventually need to go where he can start fresh. More than a few miles down the road.

To "sad" I read that 203 and 204 are launching an initiative to open an alternative middle school. It was in the Herald last week I believe. Although, I think that it's focus will be on kids who are struggling with academic issues instead of behavioral problems. I agree, the area needs a school for kids with severe behavioral issues that are at risk for criminal activity. There are plenty of these kids in both districts. Even though they are shielded by nice big houses and parents who make lots of excuses for them, overindulge them, they are still out there. I agree with the poster who stated that the image of Naperville is just an illusion. An illusion spread by lots of parents with their heads in the sand.
I have a child at Lincoln and understand that this kid is faring no better there. He is cast out. Every kid knows why he is there. How do his parents expect him to have any type of normal, average school experience? There isn't a parent around that is going to let their darling socialize in any way with this boy. Forget about a girlfriend, every dad in the area has got this kids name imbedded in their brain. It is a very sad situation.

I was at the candidates forum on Tuesday, must have been keeping a different type of score card that other person. "Slate of 4 looked like one vote to me." Everyone should go to the other forums and choose for yourself. Look for diversity, openness, individualized thinking. "Slate of 4" will not change boundaries. But do asked, who approves of boundary exceptions. That is a way quiet back door way, to get a neighborhood or just certain students into the school of their choice. This could be a private agenda of several candidates, not just the "Slate of 4".

RE: the slate of 4. I attended to school board candidate forum on Tuesday (and was very disappointed at how few people were there given the opinions of the current school board)and of the four who are running together there are two that are really solid candidates. The other two didn't impress me as much for various reasons. My concern however is that whenever you group candidates together you get the good with the bad. I'm hoping people will make intelligent voting choices and not just vote for #7, 11, 12, 13 because it's easy. One of them is clearly not probably the right match for the board (he didn't know some basic facts about how our schools function now and was called out by other candidates). So please, be careful in your voting. This election is an important one - watch the forum and educated yourself before April 7.


The slated four ARE NOT changing the boundaries..go read what they are about please.

AGAIN they are not going to change the boundaries!!!
http://www.204taxpayers.org

Also the teachers are for them because they are for the KIDS and what is BESt for the kids! I will vote for them two because they have the kids best at heart!

To " board candidates using this issue on March 5, 2009 8:27 AM"

Have you actually looked at the school assignments for the candidates? 2 on the slate are at NVHS and bringing the boundary issue back up would actually put their kids into the next group to be shipped out of NVHS because of where they happen to live. To put one candidate's area kids back, 2 candidate's area would have to leave. That's just how the enrollment numbers work by area.

For this reason, saying they are going to change them makes 0 sense. With the boundaries that are in place, they provide representation from each high school in the district. That's a good thing, in my opinion.

I don't care who you vote for or don't vote for, but for cryin out loud at least be accurate and research what you post.

Regarding the "Slate of Four" - I was at the Candidate Forum this week, and afterwards ranked the candidates from Best to Worst. It turned out that my top-3 candidates were among the "Slate of Four," and I had a three-way tie for the 4th slot - with the last of the slate in this grouping.

I agree with the notion of selecting the best candidates based on their individual merits, and intend to do this myself. The concept of running as a slate seems to be more of a marketing strategy to appeal to the many, many people who seek a fundamental shift away from where our current School Board has led us. I'd encourage people to not immediately discount the four simply because of this strategy - watch the replay of the forum or attend one of the many meet-and-greets coming up in the next month.

TO: Anonymous on March 5, 2009 10:20 AM

I don't know the complete interview process. Contact the teacher's union to confirm. I would assume that all candidates would at least have to have been invited to participate in the interview process, but I think participation is voluntary, just as it is to fill out all of the various surveys/questionnaires candidates are met with once they decide to run. I don't think the endorsement would be worth anything if the unions only interviewed four people and then turned around and said we interviewed these guys, so I guess they're the ones we'll endorse!

These particular candidates have a website - www.204taxpayers.org. Hopefully the others will too, for the benefit of those who can't attend any of the public forums.

You are right that you don't have to like a candidate just because the teachers - I was not insinuating that you or anyone should. But, as a teacher myself, I take exception to your comment about teachers' number one priority being their back pocket. In most cases, that is simply not true. Please don't randomly criticize teachers for caring about their salaries and benefits - this is a universal concern for people in all fields of employment - especially in the economy we find ourselves in today.
********************

By Anonymous on March 5, 2009 10:20 AM
Big Picture, I would like to know if the teachers sat down with every candidate and interviewed them. If not then is it fair for them to support the 4 without talking with the others.

And just because the teachers like them doens't mean I have to. We have many good teachers in this District but we have many bad ones. Remember the teahcers #1 priority is their back pocket.

To the Lincoln parent that is upset her quiet neighborhood has been uprooted by a “Gregory” kid. A few facts Gregory is one of the smaller populations of Naperville. They get a variety of students from Builta, Clow and Springbrook. Not one of these kids were from the Builta area. Our Gregory community has always been quiet, until this year. I do feel for you. I don’t think these kids are in the right placement if they did what they are accused of. But we have also got some of your kids transferred her in our middle schools who were expelled for a variety of reasons. Although the boy you are referring to has a residence in your area. As do the ones transferred her because they got kicked out. So why does 203 and 204 not have an alternative school for these middle school kids?

For those of you who blame the parents, I would stop.

Its culturally acceptable to sexually assault little boys in Chicago Schools?

"By Anonymous on March 5, 2009 10:32 AM

To By Anonymous on March 4, 2009 6:48 PM

Yep, I blame it on the 'cultural values and differences' as you brought up on your post. "

To By Anonymous on March 4, 2009 6:48 PM

As filthy and disgusting as what may show up when a spot light is turned on Monique Davis has, in her own inept way, spoken a mouthful about the cultural values and differences
between the people she represents and a community like Naperville.

Since this was quoted today in the sun, this is the comment that I will address.

First of all you don't speak for all of Naperville or at least me. Put down your old copy of Forbes(or whatever) best places to live from like 3 years ago.

Naperville is an illusion that some have bought into, but that's a different blog topic. Anyway,you stated regarding Monique

'people she represents' On this issue she (Monique) represents myself a 17 year resident of Naperville.

This law should never pass. And by saying this law is discriminatory, oops excuse me, 'discretionary' is a joke (one was quoted in the paper as saying this, I think it was some Rep.)

Monique knows the history of this country and what a group of people (like you) with 'cultural differences and values' would do.

This law is exactly what some (people like you) with 'cultural values and differences' will abuse so students that have perceived different 'cultural values and differences' than you, can be kicked out of school. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything and the student gets kicked out of school until proven innocent?? I smell a lawsuit.

I'm not saying that's the case in this situation because there is evidence in this situation.

But past history proves that there are a certain group of people with 'cultural differences' that would use this law keep certain ones out of their 'culturally different' schools at any costs.

Someone had mentioned that she is part of the 'black caucus', your point is??? Well let' nip this in the bud.

I will make the comment that these students at Gregory must be non-black , because if they were black they would have already been convicted and even though they are minors the media would have released their hospital birth pictures if they could have gotten away with it. Oh and charge the parents too of these perpetrators.

Yeah here is the cultural difference - if it didn't happen in my town, I really don't care that it happened. This is what it boils down to. This is your way of thinking, ask yourself:

If this would have happened in Chicago, would you care? Nope.

Yep, I blame it on the 'cultural values and differences' as you brought up on your post.

Big Picture, I would like to know if the teachers sat down with every candidate and interviewed them. If not then is it fair for them to support the 4 without talking with the others.

And just because the teachers like them doens't mean I have to. We have many good teachers in this District but we have many bad ones. Remember the teahcers #1 priority is their back pocket.

Please keep the language G-rated... Good one! I'll bet Mark Metzger is ROTFLHAO!

Actually with Mark you will need something a bit stronger than "Please"... like maybe a two by four.

Please calm down everyone.
This incident created legal issues, educational problems, and democratically elected people to work together. Obviously, all did not choose the "together" part of the equation.

I have met, spoken with, and had some minor business contact with Mark Metzger. He is NOT a bad person. Never has been. Did he act innapropirately? Yes! Did he resign? Yes! FYI: His family is lovely, and his children behave in an exemplary manner. They are responsible, intelligent, kind human beings. Anyone who chooses to wish hatred upon school-age children after the actions of their father(s) is a short-term minded person.

I currently work 3 PT jobs: 1 for a private family (education setting), 2. for a community college, and 3. the business world
Please do not make "stupid" comments on the differences between the business world/hard work and put a "versus" between it and education/hard work. There is no comparison.

I have served our District on a Boundary Committee during the Howie Crouse era. Have You? Have you EVER volunteered in a long-term capacity for our district?

I am a parent of a Granger student, and two Waubonsie Valley students. I have NEVER moved out of this district for 22 years BECAUSE AND ONLY BECAUSE of the possibilities within our school district.

How many of you have moved because of job transfers and or carer CHOICES, and yet deal with possible boundary changes as if your neighborhoods have EARNED you the right to a PRIVATE school? Please, think hard and seriously about sending your children to a private school. They can and DO respond to bullying, sexual assault, criminal sexual assault in a timely, forthright, clear manner.

How many of you vote in national primaries and elections, the primary and general State elections; school board elections, your (Naperville, Bolingbrook, or Aurora) city elections?

I have volunteered over the years with rape victims, sexual assault victims, our schools, and the homeless. I can happily say that as a TRUE independent, I did NOT vote for Rob Blagojevich. Either time. I did vote for Mark Metzger. You all have knowledge, opinions, various backgrounds, and some intelligence. VOTE!

There are democratic, legal, human ways to deal with the current problem. Participate in a conscious, fact-finding manner and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE spew less hatred.

Unfortunately, some people do choose to live in a way where they engage their time in a very negative, lawsuit happy style. I choose to act proactively, deal with disappointment, re-think those up for re-election, and march onward toward a better community.

Can someone post here the senators who voted against the bill so we can all write them.

It is widely believed that the Teachers Union controls the school board and for practical purposes controls the Democratic Party.

So the questions are, why is the Teachers Union keeping Metzger in a job and why did the Teachers Union Kill Darlene Sengers bill that would protect our children?

Should McGuire and her Democrat supporters and partners in Springfield pay a price for blocking this legislation for petty reasons like jealousy, envy, hate and revenge?

I know I am going to hold McGuire responsible for this bills failure.


By marcus aurelius on March 4, 2009 7:28 PM

Darlene Senger's bill lost in committee not because of cultural differences between Naperville and Chicago, but because Darlene beat McGuire, a former teacher a former union official, and a candidate strongly backed by speaker Madigan.

I am a parent with a child at one of the affected middle schools. I just want to say that I find fault and completely blame the parents of the accused boys. These parents, by not removing their children, have ignited a firestorm of controversy and have only made things immensely more difficult for their kids. Obviously, these kids committed this act. They posted it on Facebook and sent out pics to many, many cell phones. I've worked as an advocate in Juvenile court and can assure you that it isn't run like an adult criminal court. No jury just a judge (most of the time a Master) and these kids are predominately assumed GUILTY...even affluent Naperville youth. But back to the parents... I've only lived in Naperville for a couple of years and find that the typical Naperville parent is at the root of most problems. This parent makes endless excuses for their kids bad behavior. It's NEVER the kids fault, always someone else. Naperville parents overprtect and have really unrealistic view of their kids talents and abilities. Notice how most parents will tell you how gited and talented their kids are. In reality kids here are no different or special than anywhere else. Parents need to stop making excuses for their kids and accept the ugly things they've done and decided to do all on their own. These parents need to face reality and pull their kids out of the schools and get them the help they really need. Yes, parents your kids are capable of horrific things even though they live in Naperville. Let's just hope that the Juvy judge deals with them just like he/she would a less advantaged youth and not give these kids a break because they're from Naperville. If these kid's were from Aurora, they'd already be remanded to a facility.

Well the 204 drama has spilled over into the relatively calm and contained 203. You guys have had quite a year haven't you? This child has caused a similar uprising and slew of questions from our kids..."mom why are the police always hanging around school? Why are there always people trailing this new kid? We heard he did something horrible, what exactly was it?" These are the questions we're hearing. Parent groups have formed and the neighborhood is on fire with this topic of conversation. I'm certain that he is being watched like a hawk, we've been assured over and over of that. How healthly is all of this for the accused? He certainly isn't going to make any friends. He certainly won't have the typical relationships we see in middle school. I can't believe his parents would believe that this situation would improve by shuffling him to another school to face stigmatization by a whole new group of kids.
I understand that this boy was a victim himself and has been receiving counseling for some time. But this isn't a smple behavioral issue that can be remedied by some outpateint counsleor. Victims often go on to perpetrate and individuals who commit acts of a sexual nature are among the hardest to rehabilitate. This child does not belong in any public school. It is in his best interest to get treatment in a specialized inpatient setting for young victims/offenders. We can only hope that the juvenille court will order such treatment.

The gregory incident is terrible and has been mishandled. Get the offenders out of the school. Hopefully, the SB will finally move forward. Metzger does need to remove himself totally from the board. However, several board candidates, including the slate of 4, ARE using this issue. The slate of 4 was a united group, before they were endorsed by any union or group. I'm still trying to figure out when these open forums were held, and how the final decisions were made, before the 4 were chosen by the unions, question Valerie Dranius on this. Notice how they are slated on the ballot, done intentionally. They say they will not bring boundaries back up. How about boundary exceptions? Word is, they will get execptions made for their neighborhood or at least their children. They do represent a voting Block. This whole mess shows, we need individual thinkers, looking out for the best interest of all of our children.

The gregory incident is terrible and has been mishandled. Get the offenders out of the school. Hopefully, the SB will finally move forward. Metzger does need to remove himself totally from the board. However, several board candidates, including the slate of 4, ARE using this issue. The slate of 4 was a united group, before they were endorsed by any union or group. I'm still trying to figure out when these open forums were held, and how the final decisions were made, before the 4 were chosen by the unions, question Valerie Dranius on this. Notice how they are slated on the ballot, done intentionally. They say they will not bring boundaries back up. How about boundary exceptions? Word is, they will get execptions made for their neighborhood or at least their children. They do represent a voting Block. This whole mess shows, we need individual thinkers, looking out for the best interest of all of our children.

We all know way too much about this case. I think the handling by the school board/sup is been awful.

That being said, where are the parents of the accused? Not the boy who was transferred, but the boy who remains at Gregory. They can't be doing him any favors. I know there is a lot of chatter about the steps they have or have not taken. Is this a case of law? Trying to prove a point? My kid didn't do it? Something to hide in the household? I'm not in that situation thankfully, but I think pulling the the child out for reasons menioned by Kat are right on. The child obviously needs help and obviously needs the utmost structure to try and have a normal life. From the outsider, this appears to be avoidance to the highest degree.

I'm not sympathizing for this family. I'm just baffled by their action or inaction I guess.

To Anonymous:

RE: your post refering to feeling like we're in Salem Massachusetts

While as you emphasized the crimes are alleged, as in "innocent until proven guilty" Under these circumstances your suggestion that no action be taken until these students are proven guilty reasoning "What if they didn't do anything really criminal and their lives are being destroyed as well" doesn't take into account how harmful not removing them from the environment could be for them if by chance they are innocent.

Removing them to an alternative school until the matter is settled in the courts would be beneficial for both sides of this.

If the post by Gregory Parent is correct stating:
"For those who are concerned about their children's safety at Gregory, DON'T - at least not from the accused individual - he is escorted around the school by an adult the moment he enters school until days end. You can bet that Mr. Severson and his staff have their antennas up and eyeballs watching EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE!"

Take into consideration the long term effects of this. The accused students will be in school another 6 to 7 years before graduating High School, even if proven innocent thats 6 to 7 years with the same students watching these events take place now. The stigma attached to this is likely to follow them through the rest of those years, which could be as harmful or possibly even more harmful than removing them to an alternative school now would be.

People imagine alternative schools as being something like those dangerous schools we see in movies where kids run around with knives and bully the teachers. This image couldn't be further from the truth based on at least one alternative school I'm familiar with that the district uses, Ombudsman. In fact the environment there would be far more positive for the accused students, than remaining where they are based on what Gregory Parent describes. And if these students are in fact guilty, the environment is also set up in such a way that ensures the other students safety.

This could so easily be a win-win solution at least until this is settled in court, providing a positive and safe learning environment for all students involved, without all the stress the current method of handling this is putting people through.

Anonymous...if you are stating you would do something illegal to these attackers or parents then you are no better & we should all be worried about you. I understand why you feel that and God knows I'd feel just as passionate if someone did that to my child, but to state you would do it, that is a big concern. This is why we have laws so everyone doesn't just take matters into their own hands. Is the judicial system perfect, no, but you just can't go to the opposite side either. Then you go to the dark side! There have been many cases where people thought for sure someone did it & we find out later DNA tests etc they did not, so you have to let the system go through the motions. It seems from what many of you are saying there were pictures etc & so this case may be one that is just waiting for its day in court, but again two wrongs do not make a right. You don't solve problems in life in socially unacceptable ways. You model what you want others to do. Just because someone wants to do something right does not mean they are not as compassionate or concerned as you are. You know you do want everything to be done correctly so that they do not get off on a technicality so...BTW...someone has some dental background huh..."restorations" :-) So do I!

Lisa...Careful on your ridiculing the parents idea. It does depend on the particular parents etc but there are times that parents have done everything well & children despite this turn out having serious problems. Remember it is not just Environmental influences but also Genetics...and sometimes Genetics is not just what you gave them, which you have no control of carrying a gene from the past, but also mutations in genes just happen in the processes of dividing. Now, yes some cases the parents are nowhere near ideal role models before or after their child commits a crime, but that is not always the case. There but for the Grace of God go I...or my children! Think about this...the parents of the victim...they invited these 2 children right? Let me know if I'm wrong on that. AND NO...I am not blaming them before you all think that...but you know they would not have invited them had they had even the slightest concern these two would be problematic in any way. Ok, so now, why didn't they know enough about these 2 kids to make that decision? Did they not behave in any way that would be a concern prior...red flags? Any of you who know the 2 accused...do they have a long pattern of problematic behavior? Ok, so if the victim's parents did not see anything of concern, could it be the parents of the victims are shocked that their sons did this & would have never expected it? Could be...may not, but could be. I have a past student who now has her Masters in Forensic Psychology & she comes & speaks to my students about her position as a counselor for a male teen sexual offender facility in IL. Quite a wide variety of cases and no two are usually the same background, circumstances, treatment plans etc. Some of those males there have been victims themselves, have horrific families/home life so it is no wonder they turned out offending themselves. Others, exact opposite, the parents are just beside themselves on their child doing this & just can't figure out what went wrong. Of course sometimes it may be the parents are ok, but the child/offender has been offended by another relative & has not said anything, another kid in the neighborhood ETC! So it is not always the parents...be careful unless you know for example the parents did do something to their child etc.

Personally, if I was the parent of the accused, my child would be out & in a facility to help him. And really even if my child was the victim. It may be best to get him away for now from the other students and deal with what happened a bit more than just outpatient after school. Even if the two accused did not come back to school from day 1, if everyone else knows what happens, that is still a difficult situation. Heck it is hard for Adults when those who you work with know you have been raped or domestically abused etc. After you have "heal" enough you may be able to deal with those who know.

It is so easy for people to be armchair refs/psychiatrists & say what they would do but until you are really in that situation you can only speculate! It is very different once it is you.

Tom Cross

From what I can gather thus far, the slate is a group of individuals (from all three HS attendance areas) that have a common set of basic platform issues. They have all been endorsed, after a round of candidate interviews, by the district teachers and district support professionals as those best suited for the job. Maybe this, more than anything, is what makes them a "slate". I'm sure they don't agree on each and every important issue, but I haven't heard them yet personally to know how they differ. Like you, I hope everyone bothers to take the time to become educated on all of the candidates.

Get Real: I just spent some time perusing the blue board and, yeah, folks are outraged over the board's handling (or mishandling) of the Gregory incident, but I don't see venom and hate spewing out. You must not have been in the district during the Metea dispute. Now THAT was some serious venom and hate spewing! This is reasonable in comparison. But feel free to point me directly to the comments you are referring to.

If the posters on this board are the ones who made the angry comparisons between the Gregory and Metea situation, it's because they have a shared history--the same school board. Like I said, Metzger and Dr. D. have a history of this behavior with parents, but this time MM got caught red-handed so it's not so easily dismissed. What you're seeing is more of a "piling on" effect from folks who have been disgusted with our school board for quite some time.

I also mapquested the address of the guy who had the parent meeting at his house. He's all the way down on 87th and Modaff Road, neighborhoods away from the Metea malcontents. So I have to stand by my previous assertion--two different situations, two different groups, but the same behavior from the same school board members. Also, see Marcus Aurelius above.


Why on earth are you talking about the boundaries and Metea? Are you serious? If this was your child being assaulted do you really think you would be worried about some stupid political agenda? I am embaressed by your comments! I would be going crazy with grief for my child. Having to attend school next to someone who violated him! Meanwhile, everyone knows who this child is and what happened! I can't imagine what this poor child is going through! This is a life altering event that happened and you are trying to compare it to some rich people who have too much money and way too much time on their hands arguing about their children attending the "better" school!! We are talking about 3 futures, this child whill never get this time in his life back, he will never forget what happened to him and the school board can't make it a little less painful for him! Shame on all of you!! Victims always have to prove their case...what about the perpetrators! Why aren't there parents being attacked or ridiculed? Where have they been while their children are preying on others? This whole case sickens me! Our SB sickens me! Hey maybe if we don't address it, it will all go away! Just like every other wrong in this town! My heart goes out to this child and his family! Maybe some old school punishment will do the other two some good! But who am I kidding they will probably get a slap on the wrist and go on to become deviants! I hope their parents and the SB are so proud!

By Anonymous on March 4, 2009 7:27 PM

Stuff the "alleged" in your stupid pie hole. Yeah, we know the drill... innocent until proven guilty and more likely these days innocent until your lawyer gets your guilty ass off scott free. We only use the word alleged because the same scum-bag attorneys will sue for slander or libel or something... like most of their clients have a reputation that is worth anything in the first place.

Hey Einstein, if you want to talk about alleged why don't you go talk to the victim or his parents? You might want to consider pre-booking a dental restoration appointment if you plan on using the word alleged in front of the family though.

Salem, MA? Let me tell you this. If these two kids did what they did to my son I can promise you that they would be praying they lived in Salem, MA with what I would have in mind for them. Fact is I also would have done everything in my power to run them and their families out of town by now so there wouldn't be any need for others to be worried about the safety of their sons and there wouldn't be a bunch of stupid school administrators standing around proving how truly worthless and incompetent they all are.

Big Picture Issues

Regading the four.

No one brought up the slate. What is it? They all talked about the things you mentioned.

I find it a very interesting strategy to say the least. Not one I would employ if I were running but I am not running. I think putting all four on won't happen. There were two good candidates amonst them. Of course I say that hoping people come out an vote from an educated point of view.

If you are more comfortable using the term alleged go right ahead. The assault did occur, at one of the board meetings the attorney for the victim described the acts that took place. There were photos taken during the attack and placed on a social networking site. Multiple students in the school were sent copies of some of the pictures via cell phone. I think we have a pretty good idea of what happened. And as such I don't feel the need to say alleged.

I thought this was a district that wanted to be a model for others. How about taking the bold step of protecting victims and really stopping other acts of bullying, intimidation and harasment in the school. Some times you need to stand up for what is right and hope the interpretation of the law catches up to your thinking.

This is not a witch hunt or a vendetta. This is a group of parents that want to see a school board behave with compassion and respect for the victim and act as far as they can within the law to protect everyone involved. I have yet to hear a parent call for suspension or expulsion of these students only reassignment to protect the victim. And no I am not passing my problem to another school, because the case law I have seen conflicts with the districts and would allow assignment to an alternative school environment.

Darlene Senger's bill lost in committee not because of cultural differences between Naperville and Chicago, but because Darlene beat McGuire, a former teacher a former union official, and a candidate strongly backed by speaker Madigan. She will have a very difficult time getting anything thru. She needs to quietly make friends with a Dem lawmaker who can push the bill instead of her.

Please don't confuse the father accepting the order of protection and its limits as proof that he is ok with the situation. He only accepted it because it was the only option he had for some legally enforceable separation between his son and the offender.

I have been to each of the school board meetings regarding this issue and with one maybe two exceptions, those who spoke had nothing to do with the MVHS issue, they are strictly Gregory attendance area parents honked off at the cavalier way the board and superintendent have handled this issue.

I feel like we live in Salem Massachusetts and we might as well burn these boys (the ALLEGED sexual criminals) and Metzger at the Stake. Why not wait for the true information to come out and see what really happened first. What if they didn't do anything really criminal and their lives are being destroyed as well. Their are potentially more victims here. Really - what I'm seeing here is attempts to get Mark M removed - nothing about what actually "happened".

Thanks for the info on Monique. How do these people get and stay in power? Never mind. Read her profile and one will see. I believe this church had another prominent member and surprise surprise they co-sponsored legislation together.

Because it did not get out of committee, does this mean it has no further hope?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monique_D._Davis

The game in Springfield is all the more reason we must remember all politics is local. When you vote, you do not vote for incumbents. Politicians will do nothing to limit their power or livelihood, only ours. They only get one term on the school board, the city council, the park board etc. etc. Voters must impose defacto term limits in the voting booth if politics will ever change for the better. And the failure in Springfield simply demonstrates we must hold the school board accountable for their failures as well.

As filthy and disgusting as what may show up when a spot light is turned on Monique Davis has, in her own inept way, spoken a mouthful about the cultural values and differences between the people she represents and a community like Naperville.

While we may find such behavior and conduct by anyone unacceptable and reprehensible; and by children even less so, the fact that Monique Davis considers it just business-as-usual should serve as a wake-up call to all of us of the amorality that has been allowed to permeate entire communities.

The one failing of a democratic society is that human garbage is entitled to a right to vote and, in this case, vote they did.

See Darlene's bill at the link below and thank Monique Davis for refusing to let it out of committee. After all as Monique said today, "Kids will be Kids!!!"

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=76&GA=96&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=1310&GAID=10&LegID=43036&SpecSess=&Session=

The best part about Monique Davis. She is a former teacher. Surprise surprise. The Unions have her in their pocket.

Darlene Senger's bill never got out of committee today. Get this, Cook County Democrat Monique Davis (part of the Black Caucus) stated the following. "Kids will be kids!!!" This should hit the paper tomorrow in Naperville big time. The callousness of Davis' statement was stunning. The committee room sat in stunned silence when Davis made her comment. Darlene just won her next election!!!!

Email Davis and express your outrage here.

http://www.ilga.gov/house/Rep.asp?MemberID=909

Get Real:

In the interest of time (mine, to be honest) could you direct me to the comments you're referring to? Green or blue and the forums? I don't doubt what you're saying, I'd just like to see how familiar these comments sound and if I recognize any of the posters. I've scanned around and can't find any, just a couple of snarky comments at best.

Thanks!

One poster on the Blue Board has already said that the new school board will halt construction on MV, and that the third high school will never be completed. Mike Crockett is saying we don't have the money to build MV, but of course he has his roots in NSFOC. So, the April election will be very important. I don't care, stick another 1000 students in NV.

Tim Cross -
RE: your post below:
Did anyone ask them about the "slate" concept at yesterday's forum? I couldn't attend, but intend to go to one of the other upcoming opportunities. I don't really see how sour grapes on boundary decisions could be the bond. If I recall correctly from something I read/heard, at least half of them were not impacted by Metea, and one is now in the Metea attendance area. I thought I read that they were more united on issues such as transparency, fiscal responsibility, better communication, etc. These may, as you suggest, have something to do with dumping Daeschner - but it's really not clear. I hope that more people bother to find out about qualifications of ALL the candidates instead of jumping to conclusions and making accusations. To me, that seems to play into the SB's hands.....they want us questioning each other's motives instead of questioning theirs......and they are the ones with the power. Thanks.
**************************

By Tim Cross on March 4, 2009 3:23 PM

By Anonymous on March 4, 2009 2:48 PM

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

On a SB of 7 members they want to control a simple majority and they will quickly reverse policies!

BEWARE!


OK. More details please. I would assume something is up trying to run together. If they are all trying to fire the Sup, that would be supportable. Two of them seemed pretty good. The other two not so much. So, what are the details? I'm skeptical as that is the first time I have seen four people try to run together for anything. Very curious strategy to say the least.

Agreed, the slate of four will be a rubberstamp team.

Anyone that has to run as a group obviously can't stand on their own, and won't get my vote.

Also, it's apparent from the various boards that they are loved by the perpetual thorn in the side individuals looking to get their way.

Based solely on the memo, he needs to step completely off the Board.

His actions were in violation of several school district policies, they were void of any semblance of class or compasion, and he completely lacks any grace at all.

The man has embarassed the city and the district.

Now, if we also take into account the absolute screwing of the pooch on the battery issue (both of them --- the one of campus and the one on campus), one wonders if this Board is on the road to being criminally liable. At the least I would say they have civil liability based on the unsafe school environment they have allowed to exist.


By Anonymous on March 4, 2009 2:48 PM

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

On a SB of 7 members they want to control a simple majority and they will quickly reverse policies!

BEWARE!


OK. More details please. I would assume something is up trying to run together. If they are all trying to fire the Sup, that would be supportable. Two of them seemed pretty good. The other two not so much. So, what are the details? I'm skeptical as that is the first time I have seen four people try to run together for anything. Very curious strategy to say the least.

Those who are interested in conducting a letter writing or email campaign to get Metzger out as President of the Illinois Association of School Boards, here are the people to start contacting:

President
Mark C. Metzger
Indian Prairie CUSD 204
mark_metzger@ipsd.org

Vice President
Joseph Alesandrini
Pekin CHSD 303
jalesandrini@pekinhigh.net

Immediate Past President
Marie Slater
Wheaton Warrenville CUSD 200
mandjslater@aol.com

Treasurer
Carolyne D. Brooks
West Richland CUSD 2
dcbrooks2@verizon.net

Chicago Board of Education
Tariq Butt, Chicago
pakdoc3@aol.com

IASB Service Associates
Robert Bergland
Hutchinson, Shockey, Erley & Company
rbergland@hsemuni.com

Division Directors
Members of the IASB Board of Directors representing the 21 IASB regional divisions and other Division officers (chair, vice chair, resolutions, and other positions) may be accessed from the Division Web Pages. The division directors include the following individuals:

Abe Lincoln
Roger Edgecombe
Warrensburg-Latham CUSD 11
rde@dtnspeed.net

Blackhawk
Jacqueline Mickley
Geneseo CUSD 228
jmickley@theinter.com

Central Illinois Valley
Thomas Neeley
Morton CUSD 709
tmneeley@cat.com

Corn Belt
Mark Harms
Flanagan CUSD 4
mkharms@frontiernet.net

DuPage
Cyndi Dahl
Darien SD 61
mrsdahl@aol.com

Egyptian
John A. Metzger
Benton CCSD 47
jmetzger7@verizon.net

Illini
Michelle Skinlo
Mattoon CUSD 2
mskinlo@consolidated.net

Kaskaskia
Felton Jose, Jr.
Salem SD 111
hosacom@sbcglobal.net

Kishwaukee
Carol Farnum
Aurora East USD 131
cefarnum@sbcglobal.net

Lake County
Joanne Osmond
Lake Villa CCSD 41
jo@thevisiontree.com

North Cook
Barbara Somogyi
Elk Grove CCSD 59
somogyi.barbara@ccsd59.org

Northwest
Ben Andersen
East Dubuque CUSD 119
dartplus@mwci.net

Shawnee
Roger Pfister
Carbondale ESD 95
rpfister@midwest.net

South Cook
Helen McClelland
Country Club Hills SD 160
Email: n/a

Southwestern
Dane Tippett
Triad CUSD 2
dane.tippett@triarchitects.com

Starved Rock
Karen Fisher
Ottawa THSD 140
fishe@mtco.com

Three Rivers
Dale Hansen
Grant Park CUSD 6
dale8hanse@aol.com

Two Rivers
David Barton
Pikeland CUSD 10
dbfarms@pikenet.net

Wabash Valley
Carolyne D. Brooks
West Richland CUSD 2
dcbrooks@verizon.net

West Cook
Joanne Zendol
Berwyn South SD 100
lodnez100@aol.com

Western
Sue McCance
CUSD 3 Fulton Co
josu@worldnet.att.net

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

BEWARE OF THE SLATE OF FOUR

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

On a SB of 7 members they want to control a simple majority and they will quickly reverse policies!

BEWARE!

What the?

An excellent post. Thanks.

My thoughts were/are the following:

-there are clearly some people for whom it would appear that being a thorn in the side of the SB is indeed one of the joys of life. Otherwise how to explain the venom and hate spewed out? The inability to see alternate points of view? This seems to extend to all issues related to the board or the district. If the board said 'white' it seems they would say not only 'black' but also add that the board was nepotistic, arrogant, biased, dishonest and out of touch for even suggesting white.

-it was the posters on this board who made angry comparisons to this situation and metea. the curious thing about that is, if you were all fired up about metea, enough to draw comparisons to the current situation, I would offer better than even odds that you were 'negatively' affected by that decision. And if you were, then you are NOT part of the gregory population.

so.....are you looking out for the good of the gregory population? In the same way you were looking out for the good of the metea population when you complained of EMF and contamination?

or are you just taking a few more shots at a school board who made a decision you didnt agree with regarding boundaries?

Oops, I meant when Metea was moved NORTH. My bad.

1) Step in the right direction for Metzger. He needs to completely remove himself. The community has no trust in him. That is his own doing.

2) The Superintendent - How exactly did we arrive at this person as the hire? I would like someone from the board to answer that question. There are a lot of good candidates out there for this role. How exactly did the board choose from the bottom of the barrel? Equally to Metzger, he REALLY needs to go. Can't the board fire him for negligence? We taxpayers are getting screwed there.

3) Some good candidates there last night. Very disappointed with the turnout given the amount of kids in the district. And given the imminent situation. These are your kids we are talking about.

4) The foursome that decided to put their names all together. What is the motivation there? This smells of a "disappointed in boundaries issue" given residencies.

Please vote April 7th. This is important. There are four or five candidates who appeared to be right on.

I think it would be great if we had a newspaper that reported all the facts at once. For example, it would be nice to know that the victim's father signed a court order which amounts to a restraining order and allows the accused to stay at Gregory and then the father continues the complain about the accused's presence at said school, in an article about an e-mail sent out regarding the issue. If there were more of a background in the article, people wouldn't jump all over Metzger like a pack of wolves. But wait, I think that's what the Naperville "Propaganda" Sun wants to happen.

MH, Get Real, et al.:

204 volunteer posted the links to the green and blue boards so I checked them out. Saw some familiar handles from the days of the potluck threads about the Metea dispute, but these people moved over to the proboards then and it looks like they have been hanging out there ever since. Couldn't find anything that discussed attendees at the SB meetings regarding the Gregory incident, but I'm not willing to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to find it, either. But there was lots of info and opinions about the incident itself.

Who knows, maybe some individuals have made it their goal in life to be a perpetual thorn in the SB's side. I can't confirm this one way or another. But I think a lot of folks also see the Gregory area and since it's in the south end of the district near NVHS they just assume it's the same group of folks making noise about the SB. But Gregory is in the southeast. The Metea group was in the southwest, predominately the Scullen Middle School area. These schools are about 5 miles apart according to mapquest. And again, the Gregory catchment area was sitting pretty throughout the Metea dispute. They were never at risk of being bussed to Waubonsie like the southwest residents were. When Metea was moved south, that put them firmly, and happily, at NVHS.

So again, while the situations and the people involved are different, the one similarity is 204 parents having to deal with the same school board. And it's very telling that we're hearing these parents use the same language to describe their interactions with certain board members. It's deja vu all over again. The one big difference is this time Metzger tipped his hand by confirming his attitude in writing and then being careless enough to broadcast it to the world. If only we could have been that lucky.

So dismiss this again as sour grapes by the south if you want. But that only succeeds in minimizing the challenge these parents face when advocating for their children.

In reference to my earlier post....

My third question is....

How come I can't count?

This board president is more arrogant than Blago and it is high time that he leaves the board. So Mr. President please GO and please, I really mean, please take your puppet superintendent with you. You both have already caused enough division between the school community.

"The poor handling of this incident demands the resignation of Mark Metzger, Stephen Daeschner, the rest of the school board, and the Gregory Middle School principal...for the following reasons:
1. 3 month cover-up of the incident
2. lying to the public regarding the details
3. failure to protect students in school from attack and ridicule)
4. essentially protecting bullies with felony sexual assault charges
5. discussing district business via an off-district system server
6. excluding other board members from email and discussions
7. not acting immediately to move the 2 assaulters to other schools
8. calling victim's father a "M'F'er" for trying to protect a child
9. open meeting violations - meaning breaking the law"
-------------------------------------------------------
Your reasons are NONSENSE!!!
1. Not true. Gregory officials separated the kids so as they would not be in the same classes nor see each other during passing periods unless they deliberately walked in the other's path.
2. Lying is not the correct word. The accused are 11 and 12, therefore MINORS. They are protected by the law for their actions, no matter how disgusting.
3. See 1
4. See 2
5. Do you use a gmail account? I'd bet you do. And I bet you use it for work purposes.
6. ?
7. See 2. Accused are ACCUSED. Accused means they're not guilty and cannot be punished as so.
8. Victim's father signed a restraining order against the accused which also allowed the accused to STAY AT GREGORY! He then continued to come to board meetings and bitch about why the accused were still at Gregory. Very frustrating, IMO.
9. An executive session is not an open meeting violation. Happens every day.

Why is anyone surprised at Metzger's actions? Behind closed doors that's how all union hacks treat and think of the electorate. The electorate is simply there to provide taxes so they can run the show with as little interference as possible from the taxpayers. Until the electorate wakes up and throws these hacks out of office nothing will change.

To anonymous @ 12:16 am:

Don't be so sure he's lost the respect of his fellow board members. The Herald quoted two of his fellow board members explaining how they could understand his actions. Last night, I'm told one member running for re-election stated that his experience was needed on the board.

The lack of comment from other members of the school board seems to indicate approval of his actions from them, as well.

As appalling as it is, Mr. Metzger's use of profanity in reference to a district parent should be the very least of our concerns. In fact, it should not even surprise us - at least those who have attended any board meeting of a controversial nature over the last few years. His contempt for anyone who opposes his agenda or has tried to call him out on any element of misinformation, half truth or political maneuvering has been more than clear, epitomized by gavel slamming and verbal threats of removal. Well, this time, Mr. Metzger has taken things a step further, by putting his contempt in writing. No need to be at a meeting to see the adversarial stance he, the majority of the school board and the superintendent have adpoted toward this community when it doesn't agree with its decisions or approach to problem solving. At this point, the MO of Mr. Metzger and this board should be perfectly clear - Full disclosure on any issue is optional. Then, if we don't agree with what they choose to share, they hold meetings to hear us speak, but not truly to LISTEN. Many of our legitimate concerns, most importantly those regarding the safety of our kids, are dismissed or minimized. Enough is enough already. We are smarter than that and we deserve better than district listserve messages attempting to "set the record straight" - usually at the expense of another individual or group. Mr. Metzger and this board have survived and thrived by dividing this community, deflecting the glare of poor leadership, decision making and handling of sensitive issues, such as the one we face today. If character truly counts, then Mr. Metzger and those on the board complicit through their continued support of him certainly deserve a vote of no confidence.

Why did the Board rehire Daeschener and why are they keeping THAT so secretive?

Unfit to lead. Unfit to serve.

An embarrassment and a disgrace to the entire community.

How is it that people like Mark Metzger and others like him get elected in the first place? Then we can look at the cumulative damage people like Jeanette Clark have caused over so many years.

If Metzger can't be forced out with public shame we will have to somehow learn to tolerate 2 more years of his nonsense. What a legacy Metzger will leave behind. And make no mistake. Two years isn't even close enough time to undo all of the damage he has caused. We can only pray that the rest of the school board has finally neutered Metzger from adding insult to injury from here forward.

Four school board members to be elected in April. Two incumbents running for re-election. Eleven new candidates to seriously consider in the next few weeks.

SD 204 has a dysfunctional board that has grown out-of-touch with the students, their parents, and the taxpayers they are responsible for representing. For the last good many years they have acted with disdain and disregard to the wishes of the community, have wasted millions of our tax dollars, and embroiled us in a host of lawsuits that could have and should have been avoided. The legacy this board leaves is troubling at best.

Now is the time for every voting resident in the school district to start doing their homework so that we can all do our best to elect the absolute "cream of the crop" from this pool of 13 candidates. Please get involved and please encourage your family, friends, and neighbors to vote in April!

Here's the e-mail I recieved this morning:
"In the last several days there has been a good deal of discussion in our community focused on me for sending an inappropriate email. It is an action that I deeply regret and one that unfortunately takes the time and attention away from finding a solution for the families that have been affected by the middle school issue.

As such, effective immediately, I am stepping down from my position as board president. I will continue to serve on the board, but I will recuse myself from any further discussions or board votes related to this issue.

Pursuant to board policy, Vice President John Stephens will immediately take over as board president. He will serve in this capacity until the board reorganizes after the upcoming election in late April or early May.

Mark Metzger
Board of Education"

Metzger: As long as you remain on the board you remain a festering pimple on the school district. You remain a distraction, a circus freak side show. You are obviously a complete jerk. I am SO SICK of hearing about your "prior work" and "depth of experience"...what experience exactly is that? Your adeptness at calling rape vicitim's Dads motherf _ _ _ _ _ _? Wow, what great experience and leadership that implies.

Step OFF THE BOARD. And do us a favor, take your lapdogs Tyle and Piehl with you. Cathy Piehl, do you realize what complete lack of credibility you have after continuing to support Metzger in a public forum? He called the Dad a motherf _ _ _ _ _ for crissakes!!!

And to those who are considering endorsing the "Slate of 4" in the upcoming elections. Ask yourself this: What exactly does a "slate of 4" imply? Doesn't it imply consolidation of power, deal brokering, ability to collude and a quid pro quo mentality? Wouldn't we be better off with 4 free thinking souls with no group predispositions or alliances but rather an honest intention to use their OWN minds to form opinions about what's best for our district and our kids and vote accordingly? "Slate of 4". What nonsense.

What a dispicable man Metzger is. And the superintendent is no better. These men are not suited for their current positions. But they are too arrogant to feel shame for their failings. Why are they protecting the two perpetrators? Are they friends with the boys parents? Is that why they did nothing to protect the victim and verbally abuse the victim's parent? The principle at Gregory, is he friends with the families of the two perpetrators two. It's the only reason why these 3 men did what they did. Or they got expensive gifts from these families. It's Blago all over again.

I have three questions....and be honest....

How many of the wild flames posted on this board are from:

-- People who know absolutely nothing about the situation at Gregory other than what they have read in the papers?

-- People who are p.o.'d at the board because they used to be in the NV area and are now in the WV area?

I'm amazed at how much commentary applies to Metzger and how little applies to the D204 Superintendent. Why aren't the Naperville Sun and Daily Herald papers digging more into this individuals actions "or lack of" in this whole mess. And if you're really good, start researching more into his style and approach...pull back the covers and see what you'll find.

Just an FYI, Mark Metzger also serves as the President of the IL Association of School Boards (iasb.com) Mr. Metzger should resign from any position he is involved in regarding schools and students. It is mind boggling that Mr. Metzger would use this really offensive characterization of the VICTIM's father (not the perpetrators). Metzger has lost all the faith that D204 residents may have had in him, but I fear that even in a diminished role, Mr. Metzger has proven himself to be a bully and my continue to intimidate to achieve whatever agenda he may have.

By Anonymous on March 3, 2009 11:39 PM
Hold up here a dog-gone minute!

Did or did not Metzger use a SD provided computer and email account to send an obscene email? Did or did not Metzger send this email to a quorum of elected SB members making it official SD business?

Does or does not the SD have policies or standards regarding official misconduct such as this?

If Metzger refuses to completely resign from the SB does the rest of the SB have any ability to force him out?

_____________________________________________________________

Some very good points!

I know that my high school and middle school students have to sign a contract regarding computer usage in order to use a computer in District 204. Apparently the rules only apply to the students.

If Metzger refuses to completely resign, the remaining SB members would probably have to disagree with his conduct in order to act against him. I think this is very unlikely. The only one who has spoken out against him is Chris Vickers. Isn't that interesting? I have noticed that JS has been very quiet with regard to this whole issue. I don't know his relationship with Metzger, but he was copied on Metzger infamous email. To me, that means they had discussed the issue and shared the same point of view. Will Metzger now be the man behind the curtain and will Stephens just be his puppet?

So who cares if Mark Metzger won't resign?

That won't change the fact that he is the laughing stock of the school district.

That won't change the fact that he will never be reelected.

That won't change the fact that he will be totally ineffective as a board member because he has lost all respect with fellow board members.

That won't change the fact that that the victims father now has grounds to sue the school district for a couple of million dollars on a bunch of charges.

That won't change the fact that Mark Metzger is dumber than Roland Burris and Rod Blogojevich combined.

Well tell Metzger not to go to LA this week for spring break! It is "No Swearing Week"

http://www.ktla.com/landing_topstories/?LA-To-Proclaim-No-Cussing-Week-=1&blockID=187735&feedID=1198

As a child of the 60's I can recall all of the protests and demonstration of my youth against the "establishment".

It is kind of a bitter pill to swallow to look around and realize that those who are way younger than us are even worse than those "old" establishment people we protested against so very long ago.

Truth is cronyism and corruption know no age limits. The ideals we fought for in the 60's we still need to fight for today because the wrong way to operate government still lives on in the likes of Metzger and others like him.

Hold up here a dog-gone minute!

Did or did not Metzger use a SD provided computer and email account to send an obscene email? Did or did not Metzger send this email to a quorum of elected SB members making it official SD business?

Does or does not the SD have policies or standards regarding official misconduct such as this?

If Metzger refuses to completely resign from the SB does the rest of the SB have any ability to force him out?

http://www.ip204.proboards92.com
http://www.ipsd204.proboards76.com

Proboards requested in previous posts.

A day moving forward for 204

Blemum: its nice to see a big education wag chiming in, performing damage control and trying to minimize and mitigate the damage Metzger has caused. Its not about the F bomb. That is icing on the big, SD204 failure cake. You might want to think about your priorities in this case. Its about the student who was victimized. It is not about the offenders, the reputation of the Gregory Middle School or school district. The heart of the matter is Metzger and DR. D among others failing to protect a student from an in school assault AFTER an off school grounds sexual assault wherein pictures were reportedly taken. The F bomb is merely an added insult by a fool. But the reality is he has no business in a position of authority. Stepping aside as President of this school board is simply not enough. He needs to shut up and get out. Let others sort through the wreckage he has left over the years. And do not compare the corporate world to tax grabbing "educators". The majority of "educators" and administrators would never make it in the corporate world. For starters, we work 12 month schedules. And if we fail to deliver our goods and services, we don't get tenure or more money. We go out of business and look for new jobs. It is a lot more dangerous in our world which is why we are angry at those in the government sector who disregard our trust.

It looks like Metzger finally did to himself what many people thought should have been done long ago. It is satisfying to see validated in print what many of us have felt over the last couple of years:

"(Metzger)failed his leadership responsibilities by exhibiting a complete lack of compassion toward a parent" and "his disgraceful conduct and vulgar reference [in the email to the father of the victim] demonstrate contempt for parent advocacy" and "he does not embody the spirit of the working relationship between the school board and the community". Thank you!

The fact that he sent the email to such a wide array of unintended recipients must have put district officials in a position where they had to publicly sanction him. Or maybe the district feared they were inviting another lawsuit if they didn't take some kind of punitive action and remove him from this case. But he was only removed as board president. He is still a member of the board and will be active on all other issues but this one. Metzger didn't really step down, it's more like he stepped aside.

It's too bad that someone with his attitude is allowed to remain on the board at all, but he probably won't be after the next election anyway. Now, if only his compatriot Dr. D, who is just as bad if not worse, self-destructs also. Could we get that lucky?

Blemum, I don't know where you work or where you get your information, but I beg to differ.

Many in the corporate world are able to conduct themselves in a mature, professional, and respectful manner. In my opinion, someone who does not possess intelligence or maturity will resort to using offensive language as they are unable to express themselves any other way... and those are the people who are not respected, not professional, and not mature.

Where is Greggy Forest?

blemum,

Find a new company to work for, in 20 years I have never heard the term used in Exec Committee, Board Meetings or meeting with CEOs and VPs with lots of companies that you have heard of. I have certainly never seen it in a memo regarding a customer.

It is such a faux pas, that it would be career limiting to use this kind of language in a meeting and probably career ending to use it in an e-mail to any staff let alone senior staff.

Metzger is a Pig. If he had any class he would admit his mistake and resign after a public apology.

Metzger show some class and fall on your sword.

====================================

"By blemum on March 3, 2009 5:02 PM
Now, as for the topic dominating this blog: the use of an expletive in an email. First off, let's all get back in reality here. In every corporate board room in America, this term is used daily"

I believe he steps down only as president. Stevens takes over as president. Metzger needs to be voted off the board by his peers if he does not resign from the board by this evening. Otherwise, the entire board will be asked for their resignations.

Two questions for tonight's candidates for the 4 SB seats need to be asked by someone please (I will be traveling to London) - 1. Do you support Mark Metzger remaining on the SB and why?, and 2. Do you support Stephen Daeschner remaining as Superintendent of D204 and why? The answers will tell the voters what they need to know to cast their votes on this particular issue.

For the very reasons laid out in the letter from Robin Church, IPPC executive board president - including that Metzger "failed his leadership responsibilities by exhibiting a complete lack of compassion toward a parent in our community who only goal was to advocate for his child", and his "disgraceful conduct and vulgar reference [in the email to the father of the victim] demonstrate contempt for parent advocacy and therefore, he does not embody the spirit of the working relationship bewtween the school board and the community that the IPPC executive board works so tirelessly to foster" - Metzger should resign from the board as well. It will save a lot of further embarassment for him, the SB, and the district.

...and please allow me to be the first to state that Metzger's decision to only stand-down from his role as president is SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH. If he truly understood and appreciated how wrong he has acted, he would resign from the School Board. Clearly, he doesn't, and his inaction only serves to perpetuate the division between the board and the community who elected them.

The SHRILL is deafening - so quick to accuse the Board for trying to deal with this issue quietly so that all involved aren't plastered all over the newspapers.

For those who are concerned about their children's safety at Gregory, DON'T - at least not from the accused individual - he is escorted around the school by an adult the moment he enters school until days end. You can bet that Mr. Severson and his staff have their antennas up and eyeballs watching EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE!

If you really want something to worry about, consider this; if you have kids in the high schools ( I do ) they could be going to school with convicted sexual offenders, drug users, etc. Regardless, the law says that children have a right to a high school education.

Let the SB and Administration work through the situation, I'm certain they will come up with a workable solution for all concerned - given the chance.

While I understand the core issue is a difficult one. Any crime or alleged crime by a minor creates all sorts of difficult challenges. What is best for the alleged victim? What is best for the alleged offender? With adults we have cultural norms and processes. With minors we do not. The SB is in a no win situation here...

Now, as for the topic dominating this blog: the use of an expletive in an email. First off, let's all get back in reality here. In every corporate board room in America, this term is used daily. It is not unusual at all for this term to be used in casual conversation or in heated arguments by the VAST majority of Americans. The issue is not that the word was used.

The issue really is a perceived lack of empathy for the father of the alleged victim. If, as most of the folks here seem to be, you view this issue solely through the lens of "protecting" the alleged victim, you will certainly see this as a mortifying insult. On the other hand, if you see this through the lens of a SB trying to deftly maneuver through the legal morass this situation creates, you can see how the constant attacks by the father and others can lead to frustrations and even bouts of the use of "adult" language.

I don't pretend to know the best way the SB could handle this. However, as an intelligent adult with extensive experience in dealing with the public, I can also empathize with the real stress the SB must be under trying to meet all the interested parties needs. No matter their decision, someone gets hurt. No matter their actions, someone gets offended. Let's all try to remember that these are humans subject to all the faults we share as a creature.

I wouldn't expect Metzger to step down, although I think he should. He has too much of an ego to admit to that extent that he messed up. Personally, I have never voted for him because I never liked what I saw from him in the times I ran into him over the years. I have never been convinced the he is on the school board as a way to serve the students, families, and teachers in the community. I always felt it was to serve his ego.

Having grown up with a father on the local school board, I may have an idealized view of what a school board member should be like. (He chose to leave the board when my younger sister graduated since he felt all members should have kids in the schools.) But if they were all like my dad was, the schools would be in better shape, and the community and staff would be happy!

London Calling. You left out 10. Official Misconduct. Sure, it may or may not support a criminal charge, but may I be the first to suggest Mark Metzger is perhaps guilty of official misconduct from a moral point of view anyway? You people who vote for and support this person need to understand there are consequences for your actions and he is those consequences. Make sure you have learned from them. If he ever runs for public office again, make sure you support someone else. And by the way, being on the board and not being on the e-mail list is a good think. Birds of a feather flock together and may its time to not support the rest of them either. Just moving the meeting to the afternoon again shows an arrogance that is in fact his style. Dump this guy when he seeks office again.

Did Blago step down?

Is Burris going to step down?

Don't expect Metzger to!

Dan- -I totally agree with you. The fact that he hasn't been shamed into stepping down is ludicrous. Well, maybe he simply isn't capable of feeling shame....

THIS STORY IS JUST VERY DISTURBING AND UNCOMFORTABLE TO READ. AS FOR THE PRINCIPAL, HE SHOULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE CONTROL OF THIS SITUATION INSTEAD OF SITTING THERE WRITTING INAPPROPRIATE EMAILS ABOUT THIS POOR CHILD'S FATHER. THESE CHILDREN THAT CAUSED THIS DISTURBANCE SHOULD BE TRIED AS ADULTS FOR BEING TOTAL PIGS! I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THESE CHILDREN AND I HOPE THEY GET THE SAME PUNISHMENT AS THEY DID TO THAT POOR INNOCENT CHILD! NEVER EXPECTED A PRINCIPAL TO HANDLE SUCH A SITUATION WITH SUCH ARROGANCE AND UNPROFESSIONALISM.

I have seen Metzger's email, and can confirm the one-sentence summary the Sun provided with the "Monday-Friday" expletive suggested in many posts, that it was sent to all SB members except Vickers, and it included the victim's father in the distribution (which is why I think it would be irresponsible for me to post it here).

I simply cannot get past the fact that this email was sent and he hasn't stepped down yet. In my entire career I have NEVER sent or received an email with an expletive, and I would have full expectations that if someone did send one, that they would lose their job. Now apply this to the president of a school board, responsible for establishing policies and standards for our teachers and administrators, and it becomes even more absurd. But then to consider the context: trying to influence the rest of the SB about the character of a victim's father?

I understand that I don't know all of the facts about this case, but considering even the most preposterous of scenarios, I simply can't come up with one that justifies this behavior. A simple apology doesn't cut it - his actions speak to the quality of his character and the magnitude of dysfunction on our SB.

I voted for Metzger, and I can honestly say that I have never been so ashamed of a vote in my life. And I voted for Blago...

MH: Please post a link to those boards if you can. Gregory Middle School is in the area east of 59, just down the street from NVHS; the Metea dispute involved households west of 59 and NVHS, two different catchment areas for two different middle schools. I highly doubt these are the same people using this as a vehicle for a second swipe at the Board as you assert. To the best of my memory people in the Gregory area were not affected by the change in the Metea location.

The only similarities these two issues have is dealing with the same school board, and as we can see, time has not changed anything.

AA: Just some responses to your post:

"Vickers is the only one that wasn't included in the email and she was the only one that spoke against Metzger."

Vickers was the only one who spoke against the Board during the Metea dispute also. Looks like she's still the odd man out.

"If this is the board members showing their true colors, let's give them their walking papers."

I'm not surprised that Metzger pulled a Blago. I am surprised he put it in writing. But they showed their true colors a long time ago. When we claimed Metzger et al. acted in an arrogant and insensitive manner, we were dismissed and ridiculed.

"And lastly, holding a board meeting at 2:00 p.m. to address serious issues is ridiculous. And, it's also a statement from whoever scheduled the meeting... district admin or board members? How is it possible for working parents or stay at home parents who would need babysitters (who are still in school) be able to attend this meeting?"

Leaving the community out was the goal. This was not an oversight, it was a deliberate move. We had that happen as well.


I would add to the Bill the Mrs Senger is proposing that:

1.
Any student that is a documented gang member or participates in gang activities in or within a mile of the school be transferred to an alternative school after a due process hearing by the school board.

2.
Attach the recall legislation to every piece of legislation that moves in Springfield until it gets passed, be sure to include school boards. Hopefully "reform Governor Quinn" will sign the legislation.

=====================================
"State Representative Darlene Senger will be going to Springfield on 3/4 speak at a hearing to petition for an amendment of Safe Schools Law of the School Code. The policy change is recommended as follows: “Synopsis As Introduced Amends the Safe Schools Law of the School Code. Provides that a "disruptive student" includes suspension or expulsion eligible students and students against whom juvenile or criminal proceedings alleging the commission of a felony are pending (instead of just suspension or expulsion eligible students). Provides that a student against whom juvenile or criminal proceedings alleging the commission of a felony are pending may be immediately transferred to an alternative program. Effective immediately.”

Can someone post "the letter" on the boards and substitute M****r F****r for the offending part?

Let Mr. Metzger speak for himself.

As to the father of the kid that was apparently "serially assaulted", I understand why he is upset enough to question the wisdom of the school board.

Does Gay "serial assault" of a straight person qualify as a hate crime? Was the victim called any names by his attackers?

Is it Nequa or Wabansee or both that celebrate national gay day, I forget the euphemism, is this also celebrated at the middle schools?


The very first comment above by ATOWN reflects the blind support some people have for the administration and the school board that continues to upset taxpayers. By trying to somehow say that people unhappy with school boundaries are targeting the leadership, you once again try to deflect and isolate some people. But you are way off base.

Please note that most of the unhappy parents live in the very area that benefited from the boundary decisions - Welch and Clow. ANy taxpayer not concerned about the school board and administration inaction, cover-up and lies, must not have a heart.

Even more surprising is the other school board members showing support for Mark Metzger, the school board president, Stephen Daeschner, the district superintendent, and the rest of the school board for indirectly supporting the district actions, maintaining the cover-up, etc. You are walking a fine line.

The district continues to push its own agenda regardless of constituent input, and try to discredit or isolate all dissenters. This is how risks get poorly managed, inviting costly lawsuits that cannot be adequately defended, resulting in taxpayers picking up the tab.

The poor handling of this incident demands the resignation of Mark Metzger, Stephen Daeschner, the rest of the school board, and the Gregory Middle School principal...for the following reasons:
1. 3 month cover-up of the incident
2. lying to the public regarding the details
3. failure to protect students in school from attack and ridicule)
4. essentially protecting bullies with felony sexual assault charges
5. discussing district business via an off-district system server
6. excluding other board members from email and discussions
7. not acting immediately to move the 2 assaulters to other schools
8. calling victim's father a "M'F'er" for trying to protect a child
9. open meeting violations - meaning breaking the law

If the resignations are not obtained (and it is shocking if they cannot be obtained), then the school board needs to vote Mark Metzger out and not renew Stephen Daeshner's contract at a minimum.

If these things above do not happen, then the taxpayers should not vote for any current board member running for election, and the new board should move to fire Metzger, Daeschner and the Gregory MS principal (not ask for resignations - but fire them). I suggest that all board members, administrators and other suspects think long and hard about this situation as the longer they stay the more severe the consequences. The sooner you act the less damage to you personally.

It always works this way. Funny how the same political mistakes get made over and over again.

Sue for being called a MF. Sounds like NSFOC is back. Please don't excavate the grave of the NSFOC.

By MH on March 3, 2009 8:08 AM
If you look on the various D204 proboards, you'll see confirmation that most of the attendees are the same anti-Metea group trying to use yet another venue to push their agendas, whether boundary or perceived safety topics. Pretty pathetic!
-----------------------------------------------------------
MORE PATHETIC!! The president of the school- board calls the father of a victim of felony criminal sexual assault a M#@$%R
F#$%&R in an email to to other board members. Not done yet. Then the school board president and legal wizard accidentally emails it to the father. REALLY REALLY PATHETIC!!!!!!!


Metzger called the father of the victim a MF? Are you serious? Is this really true? Can the Sun verify with a simple yes or no?

It is hard to comprehend that a practicing lawyer would put something like this in writing? I guess we now know why they call it practicing law!

Good lord, now the father has grounds for a libel/slander suit against the SD. How soon will Shawn Collins file the suit on this one and how much will it cost us taxpayers to defend or settle? Can't say as I blame him though: if Metzger called me a MF under conditions like that I'd sue his ass for all he is worth too!

OMG! Will this nonsense ever end?

The following information is from the comments linked to the article online today in the Sun. There is helpful information as to how to be proactive:

There is email circulating in our community and will be one way to help ensure that state policy changes to protect victim's from this type of blatent disregard. This is paraphrased:

"State Representative Darlene Senger will be going to Springfield on 3/4 speak at a hearing to petition for an amendment of Safe Schools Law of the School Code. The policy change is recommended as follows: “Synopsis As Introduced Amends the Safe Schools Law of the School Code. Provides that a "disruptive student" includes suspension or expulsion eligible students and students against whom juvenile or criminal proceedings alleging the commission of a felony are pending (instead of just suspension or expulsion eligible students). Provides that a student against whom juvenile or criminal proceedings alleging the commission of a felony are pending may be immediately transferred to an alternative program. Effective immediately.” http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=1310&GAID=10&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=43036&SessionID=76&GA=96&SpecSess=0

Prior to the meeting (March 4, 2009 - 4:00pm), please contact the members of the Juvenile Justice Reform Committee in Springfield via phone call or fax to support the passing of this bill. Your message can be as brief as: "My name is ________and I am a concerned parent residing in District #____ in __________, IL. I strongly support #HB1310, which State Representative Darlene Senger will be presenting to your Committee on March 4th, and ask for your support and timely approval."

The Committee members' information are as follows: Annazette Collins, Chairperson
Phone: 217-782-8077
Fax: 217-557-7643

Kenneth Dunkin, Vice-Chair
Phone: 217-782-4535
Fax: 217-782-4213

CALL and FAX TODAY!

First of all, why do some in the community have to make this about Metea or us versus them within the community? I would think that all of us, as parents, would see the behavior and handling of this situation as bumbling at its best. A child in our community can't go to school without fear of being ridiculed and some want to make this about boundaries?? Unbelievable and just as shameful as the actions of District 204 administrators and the school board.

Second of all, the comments of the other board members spoke volumes. Vickers is the only one that wasn't included in the email and she was the only one that spoke against Metzger. The other two that were quoted sound like his sidekicks, and did not impress me as individuals who could identify that Metzger did not conduct himself professionally or effectively. Let's wipe the slate clean and start over. When you have sour milk you get rid of it, you don't stick it back in the fridge hoping it will get better. If this is the board members showing their true colors, let's give them their walking papers. Supposedly there is a petition starting for Metzger's resignation. If someone has details about how/where to sign it, please post it here. There are also guidelines that were researched regarding disciplinary action in other districts that our admin and board members may want to view... if they REALLY want to address this issue. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1457188,Angry-D204-parents-gather_na030309.article

And lastly, holding a board meeting at 2:00 p.m. to address serious issues is ridiculous. And, it's also a statement from whoever scheduled the meeting... district admin or board members? How is it possible for working parents or stay at home parents who would need babysitters (who are still in school) be able to attend this meeting? Doesn't the district admin or the board members know what time school lets out in their very own district?

Doesn't that speak volumes?

This is about a tragic situation to a young boy, NOT ABOUT BOUNDARIES! I can not even believe this is even appearing in this blog. The families involved in this situation have suffered enough. 3 young boys who’s lives will never be the same, never and you are talking about BOUNDARIES! No one ever sent love tokens for the SB in this tight knit community. Get the facts!!!

Metzger should take a lesson from momma: "Don't put anything in an email that you don't want printed on the front page of the New York Times." Geesh, how incredibly stupid. I am extremely angry as a District 204 parent that the SB President would use that language regarding a parent -- particularly in writing! Imho, Metzger should resign.

If you look on the various D204 proboards, you'll see confirmation that most of the attendees are the same anti-Metea group trying to use yet another venue to push their agendas, whether boundary or perceived safety topics. Pretty pathetic!

I mentioned on the other thread I think the community certainly should think of options for the school board if they are not happy. They elected them. If they are not representing the community then you have a problem. For someone who represents the school to be using that type of language is just reprehensible to me. You are suppose to be a model to the children. How does the board support school teachers & the principal punishing chidren for this language if they are using it?

Some have made the point it was not intended for the father to receive? Well obviously he does not want it to go to him but that does not excuse the behavior at all. Do I expect people to be perfect? No, but why would you even call any parent this even if the email did not go to the person you are stating it about. If he is saying this to other board members what to they think of this man? Don't they think he may then later call them that when he disagrees with them? Again, if I was his spouse or child I would be very ashamed of him.

This sounds more like the parents who were HAPPY with the board a year ago over the Metea issue are now getting a taste of what those of us who were unhappy dealt with. Interesting that a group of 30 or so parents met to discuss how this is being mishandled by the board and what their options are. That's how the NSFOC got started.

While the situations then and now are very different, the actions of the board are strikingly similar. To quote:

". . . they think it is emblematic of the way these administrators and board members do their business and treat their constituents.

But others gathered in his basement asserted that Superintendent Stephen Daeschner, board President Mark Metzger and other board members and administrators routinely treat those who oppose them in that manner."

Well, duh! Some of you surely saw this during the Metea dispute, but you didn't seem to mind when it was directed towards others in your community, did you?

And holding a meeting scheduled for 7 PM at 2 PM instead to avoid answering to parents or press is standard procedure for the board. Better get used to it; they did it to us twice that I know of. Once we showed up at the scheduled evening time only to find that the meeting had taken place earlier in the day. Another time a meeting was hurriedly conducted behind closed doors. And the police escorts are back also; how nice. Been there, done that too.

While this situation is certainly horrific for the parents of the victim and others involved, I have no sympathy for those parents who were champions of the board last year that are now moaning and groaning about how awful the board, and especially Dr. D and Metzger, are treating them and the problem. If they did it to others, you should have known they'd do it to you. And it looks like they are.


Wow, did I read the first comment correctly? You think this is nothing more than a bunch of people not happy with boundaries? The SB President calls the father of a child who was sexually assaulted by fellow students in an off campus place and subsequently assaulted and harassed at school as a M.F... and you think it's really about boundaries?

This is as stunning as the fact that the SB president actually wrote what he wrote. Wow.

I've always thought that this issue required the school bosrd to strike a very difficult balance. Without knowing all the facts, it's hard to jusdge the process so far, other than to ackowledge that it is a dreadful situation for the victim and his family and liekly for the perpetrator and their families, as well.

Still, having watched the school board meetings, I must say I am appalled at the attitude displayed by the administration. Clearly, they are out of their depth in this situation.

But the email...Several things jump out. First, I think it demonstrates how the sender really feels about the situation. Second, I think that the sender did not expect his comments would shock the intended recipients. This theory is partially supported by the quotations of two school board members, effectively making excuses or providing an explanation as to why such an email might reasonably be sent. Third, why is it that the rest of the school board has been silent about the email and the obvious disdain for the community that is indicated by the email? Is their silence tacit support?

After three months of in action, while emotions and suspicions are justifiably high, the school board schedules an emergency meeting to discuss student discipline. It has been scheduled in the middle of the day, and minimal notice has been provided -- possibly to avoid any further public comment -- possibly for some other, legitimate reason. I don't pretend to know why the timing is as it is. I do know that the school board needs to work very hard to restore the trust of parents and taxpayers and the rush to have a meeting that no one can attend is not going to go far to accomplish that objective.

Looks like parents not happy with the boundaries are getting their shot at the SB president now....

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