On Tuesday night the Naperville City Council approved a budget for the 2009-10 fiscal year. Councilmen Bob Fieseler, Richard Furstenau and Grant Wehrli voted against the plan because it includes salary increases for city employees.
City employees are slated to receive merit increases of 1.5 percent. Last month the council reduced the amount from the previously recommended 2.25 percent, saving the city $637,447 on employee raises.
Previously, the city laid off 20 employees and eliminated 23 vacant positions, saving $3.2 million. Other major areas of cost-savings are $1.8 million in the vehicle replacement fund and $1.1 million in reduction of overtime. In addition every department had to cut costs. These cuts were meant to alleviate an $11 million deficit.
With all this in mind, do you think city employees should be getting raises?
Why did you not mention that this does not apply to the police who are currently demanding a 6% raises based on my conversation with a Council Member???
I feel you are not presenting the whole picture unless Police are not considered City Employees.
The City Council members need to set the tone, demonstrate their leadership, and provide an example of the tough economic situation by returning or declining at least 20% of their own salary.
IF they do that I think they will capture the hearts and minds of city employees as to the seriousness of the budget situation. If they don't we are going to be in for some long, hard union bargaining.
Anonymous and Moderator,
Calling someone a liar is libel....unless he is a pathological liar who lies all the time. That is almost impossible to prove on anyone.
Stating Doug Krause lied is not libel if he lied about this incident.
I recommend for the safety of the blog site and Anonymous this post be deleted immediately.
I have no problem with you stating Doug lied but taking it to the higher level of saying he is a liar, is 100% libel. Big huge differnece between calling someone a liar and stating he simply lied. Huge!
Trust me, Moderator and Anonymos, I have expertise in this area.
Anonymous, he may very well be correct. We shouldn't take the chance.
I'm amazed that the school districts and the City can pass out raises in this economy. One of the problems I see for the City is they have police officers, firefighters, public works and utility workers in unions. I am not sure how many other departments, but that has to be a huge chunk of the workforce. How many of them have existing contracts and will be getting well more than 1.5 percent this year, not in the form of a bonus, but as an actual merit increase? ( Not police of course because they seem to be in negotiations.) Remember I said this before, as indicated by the Sun, the council is passing this out as basically a bonus and not a raise, so there will be no long term benefit to the employee or liability to the city, beyond this fiscal year budget.
Now I ask this question, how many of the people layed off were in unions? If the answer is few to none and you have the inequity in monetary increases, how long is it before more employees unionize? Is that a good thing? I know a guy who works for the City of Aurora and they seem to like unions, always settle on time, etc. But Naperville seems to consistently have these protracted union negotiations, have had strikes, threats of strikes and so on. I am not a big fan of unions. So is the 1.5 percent a bone? I'm guessing the average employee will take home about 500 bucks, so have a nice dinner downtown,wine and dessert included.
With all the layoffs, salary cutting and reduction in hours in the private sector, I think it is time government and the schools "wake up and smell the coffee." It was irresponsible of D204 school board to give raises this year (on top of the step raise). It is irresponsible for the City to give raises as well. Right now I'm happy I still have a job (my company has laid off some workers and cut hours of others). But of course, who's actually paying for these raises? Taxpayers. Those who vote for the raises pay taxes as well, but they don't actually see it hurt their profits like business owners do.
Let's put it into perspective. If a person is making $40,000 they will be getting a one time check of 1.5%, not a salary increase. So the person will be getting a check for $600 MINUS 35% for taxes = $390 for the ENTIRE year. And since it's a merit increase, that means some people can get the max. of 1.5% others may only get .5%, or 0%.
Did you testify at the hearing on 4/8? If not, don't complain after the fact. And, don't give me that garbage that you didn't know. We only have limited times that our legislators are required by law to listen to us, and we have to take full advantage of them. Besides the mandatory legal notices, the Sun ran an article on the hearing. You have one more opportunity to object. There will be a public hearing before the tax levy is passed in December. If you have a position, show up and let yourself be heard. Also note, it's a merit raise not an across the board raise. They don't have to be awarded.
Lets see:
*Sub Prime failures almost complete.
*Alt A Adjustable Mortgage defaults under way, potentially just as big as Sub prime. Will effect all towns and cities.
*Commercial Real Estate defaults beginning to pick up steam, this will impact insurance companies and cities.
*Prime Mortgages defaults, just doubled at Fannie and Freddi last month; the unfortunate CFO worked at Freddi which is now under investigation for massive fraud and questionable lending practices.
*Falling home values.
*All pension and 401K plans have been decimated including our City Workers, the school plans may have gotten their bail out ($40B) via the AIG money laundering operation.
*Auto Sales declined from 17M units a year, now heading under 10M units. GM is heading into bankruptcy, Chrysler may close.
*15% private sector unemployment rate
All of the above definitely effect our city.
I can't think of a better time to increase the City's expenses on already generous salary and benefit packages.
Anonymous wrote:
The City Council members need to set the tone, demonstrate their leadership, and provide an example of the tough economic situation by returning or declining at least 20% of their own salary.
Does anyone know if City Council members are expected to pay for job-related expenses out of the own pockets, or do they have some kind of expense account to cover such items? I know they get extra money to cover cell phones and subscriptions to periodicals, but do they also get reimbursed for any other expense they may incur that is related to their job?
The reason I ask is that I've been wondering for some time why they get any salary at all. It's not a full-time job, and the amount they are paid is not a lot. I don't think any of them "need" the money, and I doubt that it serves as much of an enticement for anyone who runs for city council. Eliminating their salaries would be just a drop in the bucket given the size of the overall city budget, but it would have symbolic importance, and would underscore the idea of public service that is supposed to be a big part of the job.
-JQP
JQP-
The best source I can find for City Council salaries is this- http://openline.blogspot.com/2008/09/naperville-seeks-pre-emptive-strikes.html
Assuming that's correct, they're making $11,000 a year a piece which really is a drop in the bucket looking at the bigger picture. I also remember reading they get very basic expenses covered like their cell phone and maybe internet connection.
Anyone remember this from ten years ago- http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4570445.html
The best thing about this pay raise is weren't a few of the city council members who voted in favor of this just at the teabagging rally last week shouting in to bullhorns about government spending? How can these same people then turn around and give everyone a raise in today's economy?
I guess that's all part of being a politician. ;)
I've been following the activities of the city council pretty closely lately with all the buzz proceeding the election and all this drama afterwards. I think I have a very good idea who our multiple personality blogger is. You would be surprised.
Hmmm, if it was known who BHO [Napergatians, Ameena...et al] is in real life, do you think it would change his/her/its blogging habits? They have such an odd writing style at times, doesn't seem to be native to American English, sometimes seems like a whiny woman and sometimes seems like a whiny man. I wonder if he/she/it would be as inflammatory, judgmental, belittling and trollish in real life. Most trolls are keyboard bullies and quite unable to do much without a keyboard or bullhorn and picket sign along with comrades beside them, I would think.
Kind of fun to think the expanse of BHO may come to a place where he/she/it would have to substantiate himself/herself/itself to the community, without props to hide behind, that [they all] love to hate, and yet [they] are still here.
With this being a new thread I'd hate to see it get off topic already. Let's not get sidetracked with the BHO thing.
By Keyboard Rambo on April 23, 2009 11:52 AM
JQP-
I've been following the activities of the city council pretty closely lately with all the buzz proceeding the election and all this drama afterwards. I think I have a very good idea who our multiple personality blogger is. You would be surprised.
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Keyboard Rambo,
Why does it matter to you to know who I am? This is a blog that entitles us to blog anonymously. I am doing what you are doing. Nothing more or nothing less. It is my right to blog anonymously as you are without having bloggers try to figure out who I am.
It appears you are concerned about these raises as I am.
I have no interest in knowing who you are.
Why are you interested in knowing who I am?
Why don't you cut the nonsense out? Experience led on that he knew who I was for weeks. I let him make a fool of himself by leading him on.
Do you want me to make a fool of you, too?
If not please drop this nonsense. The Moderator has warned all of you dozens and dozens of times.
None of you are willing to listen. When he tells me something I listen the first time. How about you folks listening since he has told you for the UMPTEENTH TIME!
This is all getting very old!
Why don't you have a private meeting with Ann E. and Experienced and exchange notes as to who I am in one of your homes. But please don't trash this thread.
Let us shame the police officers who are currently asking for a 6% raise when most of us have had pay-cuts, job losses, 401k losses and on and on.
What the police don't realize is asking for a raise is aksing us to cut our take home pay EVEN further. This is ridiculous. Chief Dial needs to get his troops to smell the coffee.
They should be grateful that they can still collect 75% of their final and highest salary after 30 years of work as soon as they turn 50. They had a 61.5 million deficit before the market crashed. It may be 100 million now. Despite this massive deficit and the continued massive losses being accumulated, they will get their Full Pensions. Our private retirement funds have been slashed in half reducing our retirement benefits most likely in half.
Does anyone know how the police will manage to get their full retirement pensions despite the devastation of their pension funds? You guessed right. They will tax the Naperville Residents up the WAZOOO until each and everyone of us has to foreclose on our homes. They don't care. It they cared one iota about us they would not be asking for a 6% raise. They would be offering a 6% reduction in pay. Is it not enough we pay them 100K in OT for pretty much walking the Ribfest and Last Fling? Should they not be volunteering their services like almost every other person at these Charity Events? Love your Naperville Police if you like, but I think they our completely out of line. They need a rude awakening sooner than later.
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PS. In the event after 10 years someone guesses which of Naperville's 143,000 residents I am, I doubt the Moderator will reveal my identity since he knows I am here with the understanding of being Anonymous. You always have a 1/143,000 chance of being right when you guess because I admitted I am a tax paying Naperville Resident. I must admit it is better odds than the lottery. So hopefully, the Moderator will give me a lifeline when someone finally guesses if you want to continue this silly guessing game. Ciao!
SHAME ON THEM! This is another aspect of the mentality that embraces the concept of "slobbering at the public trough". These idiots will never care. It's like expecting Springfield to throw out all the crooks....it's not gonna happend.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0pTxXU7974E&refer=worldwide
April 26 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will continue to contract “for some time to come,” said Lawrence Summers, director of the White House National Economic Council.
“I expect the economy will continue to decline,” with “sharp declines in employment for quite some time this year,” Summers said today on “Fox News Sunday.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roundup from my conversations this week:
Tech. CEO on West Coast told me they are having their next quarterly (5) lay off, 1/3 of VP's being let go and remaining Senior Management taking 20% pay cuts. Says they are in better shape than many valley companies.
Large Chicagoland Tech. Eng. and manufacturing company told me they just completed their 3rd layoff in 9 months, orders have evaporated, medical plan cut, 401K contributions cut, 10% across the board pay cuts and warning that next layoffs may be a lot deeper.
Director for large 3-6K worker Chicagoland medical service provider was informed of an across the board 20% pay cut effective immediately, following wage and benefit cuts and a modest layoff.
Corporate officer for several companies in FLA told me all the companies are hurting, real estate is in collapse, major commercial developments on hold in a lot of Florida; and wage and benefit cuts are widespread in addition to layoffs.
Very busy, High level Consultant in Wash DC told me things are great there; the buzz is all the jobs the Federal Government is going to create as they take over Banking and Nationalize Health Care. 3 wealthiest counties in the USA are DC suburbs.
What is the answer? Do NPD employees recieve top available retirement at age 50 or 52? PLS answer mr. CM or anyone who knows. Why are not teachers treated the same? Do you know how old a teacher must achieve before less % than N'ville Police employees?? One reason why the Combine rules while you all drool.
By CONPA on April 28, 2009 10:54 AM
The big difference between police/fire and teachers comes from Federal tax code. Under the federal tax code public safety employees can draw on their pensions at 50 rather than 59 1/2 without paying the 10% penalty. Teachers do not have that exception. State law would allow Teachers WITH SUFFFICIENT YEARS OF TENURE to retire at 55 with maximum benefits, but they could not draw down on their pensions until 59 1/2 without paying the penalty. The reason for the 52 as opposed to 50 for police is that police cannot carry a firearm until they are 21. Add to that the Naperville requirement that they have a bachelors degree, and they probably can't be hire until 22. If the required tenure for full benefits is 30 years, they can't retire before 51-52, depending on birthdate and graduation dates.
Nice job on that answer! Quinn's new pitch would require-new hires- educators to work[optional] until 67 years OLD,and they still would not catch police or pols top pay %. The top earners for all 5 pension programs have soiled it for the majority,those without clout or double-dips! teachers can you verify 59.5years requirement?
Former Student,
Quinn is out for himself.
He wants to tax us an extra 50% on our state income taxes so he and his buddies in STATE OFFICE can collect Big Fat Pensions at taxpayer expense. They want to keep our tax refunds next year so they can enrich themselves.
Most government officials can not be trusted. They are out for themselves. Out for personal enrichment at taxpayer expense.
Can we afford raises?
Wilbur Ross Financial Times Interview on housing:
http://www.ft.com/cms/8a38c684-2a26-11dc-9208-000b5df10621.html?_i_referralObject=4761625&fromSearch=n
HOUSING STILL COLLAPSING
Foreclosures are counted as "sales of existing or new homes". 40% of all reported "home sales are foreclosures".
"With 600K (750K before “adjustments”) job losses per month, foreclosures are going to pick up speed".
It ain't over yet, lets put off the next City spending binge until 2013 when the economy many have worked off the consumer debt bubble; the $120K interest only debt per child that the FEDs are piling on our kids is a different problem.
CANCELED CREDIT CARD
China has announced they will only buy FED debt at 5% of the previous levels. The UK and Germany failed at their bond auctions, can the US be far behind.
China has canceled the US FED govt's 2% credit card, next they will begin dumping dollars; if others follow, the US will be paying 18% interest if anyone will lend us the money.
Look for Obama to try to sell off assets like our gold in FT Knox to finance his remake of Amerika. The Feds are already printing money, $2 Trillion this month.
If inflation, possibly hyper inflation, really kicks in, the SSA and pension checks will have the same face amount but buy about 30-90% less. This is how governments print their way out of obligations both foreign and domestic.
I hope we don't hit the point where stores refuse to accept US Dollars, this is rapidly approaching with each bad decision.
This may end like the Titanic movie, everyone close the ship gets sucked under.
COLLECTIVIZATION OF INDUSTRIES
The deal Obama offered Chrysler's (and GM) bond holders was:
Stockholders get zero
Fiat gets 10-40%, in exchange for a tiny car design.
Bond holders get 30%, this is other peoples pensions getting wiped out to fund the UAW pensions.
UAW gets 55% of company
Govt gets 10% plus..
UAW and FEDs 65% effectively own and operate Chrysler; and Fiat gives Car Company President Obama a 40 mpg car design to manufacture at Chrysler's factories. Parking lots at Toyota dealers are overflowing with unsold Prius. The YUGO was a Fiat 128 manufactured in Yugoslavia.
In order to ram his cars down our throats, will Obama Motors ruin the other car companies sales through EPA regulations, and kill off a revenue stream for the city?
How will Obama force consumes to buy the American YUGO?
MAN MADE DISASTERS
The City should begin planning for Man Made Disasters being planned and executed out of DC. There are more every day.
1.Hyper inflation or the collapse of the dollar is one we should start thinking about. What did this do to Cities in Wiemar Germany?
2.Obama Motors with the govt regulators killing off the competition through rules changes. Ever heard of British Leland Motors?
3.Continuing foreclosures and housing prices continuing to drop to year 2000 levels.
4.CAP and TRADE TAX will increase the cost of electricity to the City by 100%, this will drive more jobs out of the US-Naperville to China and kill our consumer retail spending. Lets see; dine out or freeze to death in the dark at home?
5.Since Obama has just disabled the CIA, DIA, NSA and all black ops that have been keeping us safe, we should begin to think about what the next major terrorist attack on US soil will do to our City budget. Perhaps we should invest in radiation suits for our city detectives so they can help investigate the next attack if one of our cities becomes a glassed over crater.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling... Ah, good times.
Check you real estate tax bills and check my post on another thread if you want some details.
This is twice what Council Members told me privately.
I think it is atrocious that our city officials could allow an 11.18% increase in our taxes to take place in these recessionary times.
Interesting,
The version of the story I remember, an acorn falls on Chicken Little's head which leads him to conclude the sky is falling.
What would he have said if the entire Oak tree had fallen on his head?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Interesting on May 1, 2009 4:45 PM
The sky is falling, the sky is falling... Ah, good times.
By CONPA on April 28, 2009 10:54 AM
What is the answer? Do NPD employees recieve top available retirement at age 50 or 52? PLS answer mr. CM or anyone who knows. Why are not teachers treated the same? Do you know how old a teacher must achieve before less % than N'ville Police employees?? One reason why the Combine rules while you all drool.
Hey Barry....time to go put in another Grateful Dead CD. Better yet, Puff the Magic Dragon!!!!
By Scott Huber on May 2, 2009 2:28 PM
By CONPA on April 28, 2009 10:54 AM
What is the answer? Do NPD employees recieve top available retirement at age 50 or 52? PLS answer mr. CM or anyone who knows.--
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A police officer receives his full pension after 30 years on the job and when he achieves the age of 50. So technically if he can graduate from college early and start at age 20 at the NPD, he can collect at age 50. If he starts at the NPD at age 21 he collects at age 51. If he starts at age 22, he collects at age 52.
Assuming he could start at age 19, he would qualify at age 49 for a full pension, but could not collect till age 50.
I think police officers and fire fighters should be able to retire after 30 years but should wait till age 70 before receiving full pensions. Just like civilians and Social Security.
My taxes went up about 11% this year because of the Big Fat Pensions.
What say you, Scott Huber?
By Big Fat City Pensions will get my Tax Refund on May 2, 2009 3:44 PM
Assuming he could start at age 19, he would qualify at age 49 for a full pension, but could not collect till age 50
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And, what of the age limitation for carrying a fire arm?
And, what of the city requirement that all police officers have a bachelors degree?
And, civilians do not have to wait until 70 for full pensions. It is only the social security component that is tiered. Their pensions are fully available at 59 1/2. And, police do not qualify for social security, even if they take civilian jobs after retiring.
Experienced,
I said technically to try to explain that it is over 50 with 30 years.
Not everyone who works for the police department is an armed officer.
You can start with a desk or office job at a younger age and later become a fully sworn police officer.
And technically you can graduate from college at 19 and a half instead of 21, if you are smart and graduate from high school early.
Some kids have graduated from college at 14.
These are all unlikely scenarios but possible.
That is why in most of my posts I stick with 51 and 52 retirement ages.
I was just trying to make a technical point to the blogger who needed an explanation.
I am glad police officers can not qualify for Social Security assuming you are right. They should also not be allowed to qualify for double government pensions.
Now if they do not qualify for SS and get a job in the civilian areana, does the employer not withhold 7.65% of their wages for FICA? It would be unfair if they had to pay the FICA tax and not qualify for SS. If they did not have to pay the FICA tax that would be all good and they could save all that money. Plus the employer would not have to match the 7.65% for FICA. So I guess it is a good deal for a civilian employer to hire a police officer or fire fighter since it would cost the employer 7.65% less assuming you are right.
BTW, how do you know all this stuff. That is impressive.
Thanks for the info Experienced. Big Fat, the desk job scenario at a younger age does not hold water because civilian employees would be paying into a different pension fund, like IMRF, not the police pension and therefor those years would not count toward their 30.
So, if you bar someone from collecting a pension, forcing them to get another full time job, most likely making less money initially, what would be the motivation to leave? I still don't want some 68 year old fireman trying to drag me out of my burning house, nor do I need a 69 year old police officer chasing down my neighborhood peeping Tom. Don't suggest desk jobs as age alone should not qualify you to be a detective, etc. Do you see how many would be on disability before they hit 70? I think raising the years to 35/ age 55 would be a benefit to public funds without compromising public safety.
By Big Fat City Pensions will get my Tax Refund on May 3, 2009 12:46 AM
Now if they do not qualify for SS and get a job in the civilian areana, does the employer not withhold 7.65% of their wages for FICA? It would be unfair if they had to pay the FICA tax and not qualify for SS. If they did not have to pay the FICA tax that would be all good and they could save all that money. Plus the employer would not have to match the 7.65% for FICA. So I guess it is a good deal for a civilian employer to hire a police officer or fire fighter since it would cost the employer 7.65% less assuming you are right.
BTW, how do you know all this stuff. That is impressive.
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No they and their employers pay their shares into fica, but they get no benefit from it. It just goes into the trust fund for everyone else.
I know all this stuff so that I can impart all this knowledge onto you! Legal and accounting backgrounds give one a lot of useless knowledge.
By the way, civilian employees of the police department do not belong to the police pension fund. Only commissioned officers. The city wouldn't hire someone at a police officer's salary and not have them get full police powers. They could hire a civilian to do the same job at less cost.
And, the earliest they could hire a police officer would be 20 by state law. 19 would be illegal.
Mark F. and Experienced,
You guys are basically getting into technicalities and exceptions.
Basically if you serve for 30 years and you are age 50 or more you can retire as a FF or PO.
Maybe a fireman can start at 19 if he can graduate from college early. At age 49 he would be eligible for a pension but could not begin to collect till age 50. I was simply trying to make a point. Maybe the city has a requirement that he be 21. Then he qualifies at 51 and collects at 51. It really is a very simple concept if there are no exceptions to the rules. Let us leave the 1% exceptions for the City Manager to worry about.
If a policeman needs to be age 20 to carry a guy, than he will be eligble at age 50 assuming he graduated from college early with a 4 year degree. I don't know what year a police officer can carry a gun.
If Mark F is making a suggestion that police and fire fighters should work 35 years instead of 30 years and be able to retire at age 55, I think he is making an excellent suggestion in the right direction.
While it may not be enough, I believe it would have a very significant impact on cutting the pension deficit. Police and firefighters will pay-in for 5 more years and will receive pay-outs for 5 less years.
If a PO or FF lives to 91 or 92, he would have paid in and received pay outs for an equal number of years. Is this enough? I don't think so unless we can get 10-15% returns on a consistent basis from the fund assets. Maybe we could invest the money in Berkshire Hathway and see if Warren Buffet can do what he did in the 20th Century in the 21st Century. So far he has failed in the 21st Century just like almost everyone else.
Keep in mind pay-ins are 9.45% for 35 years while pay-outs are 75% of the highest and final salary. The civilians of Naperville have been contributing an astronomical 21.16% of PO and FF salaries. This will also have to continue unabated and maybe increased to 40%. At that point Mark F.'s suggestions will work. I don't know if the civilian population is willing to pay 40%. I will admit I will not be happy. I think I should only be paying 9.45% just like the police officers do. Match them just like our employers match our social security. Nothing more, nothing less!
The PO and FF may bite on Mark F. suggestions if they felt Chapter 9 reorganization was inevitbale. But only then...not before. We can try Mark F's suggestions at that point for 5 years and see if the pension gets worse or better. Maybe if it still is not working we can let them retire at 55 and hold their benefits to 62 before they are paid out.
Most PO and FF are intelligent and save some money. They should be able to ride the years from 55-62 from their savings if they can not get a civilian job. At least at age 62 they will receieve their Big Fat Pensions. Maybe banks will loan them money between 55 and 62 knowing these Big Fat Pensions are on the way to them or their surviving spouses or possibly other family members.(don't know the details of who gets them if a FF or PO passes away....but since 12 passed away and family members are getting them, someone is getting them...for how long I don't know...this could also be a problem if a child can get them till he was 91....I doubt this is the case though unless maybe he is disabled or challenged may be the politically correct term.)
One thing for sure. The chance of a Chapter 9 bankruptcy decreases immensely if we impose Mark F. recommendations and modify them if they don't work as I suggested. His suggestion may also have to be imposed state wide unless a home rule city can be exempted in performing such an adjustment. I would love to see Naperville lead the state in the reform of the broken pension system.
Anyway, Mark F, it is nice to see someone making good suggestions that can only help. It is nice to see someone making sense instead of noise.
Keep up the good work!
By Big Fat City Pensions will get my Tax Refund on May 3, 2009 5:41 PM
OK, now you have another solution recommended to you. You can call Tom Cross or Kirk Dillard or Darlene Senger, etc. and start your new campaign. You admit it would work. It is more palatable to the public safety employees than your 70 year old proposal. It doesn't affect the General Assembly because they can't draw on their pensions without dire tax consequences until they are 59 1/2, anyway. So get to it! And, I'll make you a deal. You start it and I'll join in. Hell, I'll even donate the time and effort to get you registered so that you can raise funds as a not-for-profit.
By Experienced on May 3, 2009 8:40 PM
By Big Fat City Pensions will get my Tax Refund on May 3. 2009.
Hell, I'll even donate the time and effort to get you registered so that you can raise funds as a not-for-profit.
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Experienced,
You are very generous. And I appreciate your offer but it also means I have to reveal my identity. Something I am not willing to do.
I did not say Mark F's. proposal will work but that it is a great step in the right direction. I do not believe it is sufficient.
I met with a former pension manager from Navistar on Saturday who understands the gravity of the situation and is also trying to bring change. He stated at Navistar they were able to retire at 55 but for a substantially reduced pay-out. You had to continue to work to 65 and retire at 65 to get a full pension.
What he pointed out to me is all these pension plans become unbearable when retirees exceed workers.
We discussed the Naperville Pensions and he sees no way they could ever make ends meet especially as the retirees increase dramatically in the upcoming years. He is surprised we have such a deep deficit with so few retirees and so many workers. He can not imagine what the situation will look like when we have more retirees than workers if the full retirement age remains approximately 52.
As far as starting a grass roots movement, you need the masses. The masses are uninformed. Maybe when the pain strikes in 5 years we can get them involved. Newspapers who reach the masses need to plant the seeds for the grass roots movement by educating the public regarding the looming disaster.
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Speaking of newspapers, Boston Globe just announced it will have to file for bankruptcy if the unions don't make concessions and reduce their legacy costs dramatically. I will report on what happens witht the Boston Globe.
On the pension debate, you may be overlooking an important factor.
Government at all levels is bankrupt and printing money to pay the bills.
China has stopped buying US T-Bills, all major economies are looking to decouple from the dollar; like getting far away from the Titanic before it sucks you under with it.
Naperville's budget is based on a bubble housing market and industries that the Congress sold to China in exchange for $200 million in money paid to lobbyists and lawyers in DC.
The big sucking sound in Naperville was our Engineering and High Tech manufacturing base leaving.
It's a sign of the times that one of our new council members, the Dupage government and Rep Hultgren want to start building housing projects in Naperville to replace the ones the were demolished in Chicago.
Illinois is now #5 in foreclosures, and all housing and retail prices are deflating. There are plenty of starter homes available in Naperville they are called: Condos, Townhouses and Duplexes, many sit empty with for sale signs.
We just bankrupted the country with affordable housing with millions of loans that could never be re-paid; Lets give it a rest while our Grandchildren figure out how they are going to pay just the exponentially growing interest on the National Debt.
Well, big fat, as long as you aren't going to actually do anything constructive about your pension issue or your ribfest issue, you can devote some time to getting your assessment reduced for next year so that you won't be overpaying your taxes again.
[OMG, how did I know that your assessment was out of line with your neighbors when I don't know who you are?]
By Experienced on May 4, 2009 11:38 AM
Well, big fat, as long as you aren't going to actually do anything constructive about your pension issue or your ribfest issue, you can devote some time to getting your assessment reduced for next year so that you won't be overpaying your taxes again.
[OMG, how did I know that your assessment was out of line with your neighbors when I don't know who you are?]
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All you know about me is what I tell you on this blog site. YOu know nothing about me. Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!
If you want the pension system fixed call on the Big Boys who get the Big Fat Pensions to fix the system. They are the ones getting the Big Fat Salaries.
I am simply reporting. If they don't fix the system that is enriching them, they will lose everything one day. Just ask the United Airlines employees. I know many of them. They wish they would have fixed their system before it broke to the point of where it was beyond repair.
By Anonymous on May 4, 2009 9:12 AM
On the pension debate, you may be overlooking an important factor.
Government at all levels is bankrupt and printing money to pay the bills.
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Anonymous,
I enjoy reading all your posts. They are enlightening and enriching whether I agree with them or not. Keep them coming and thank you!
Most of the time I agree with what you say.
By Big Fat City Pensions will get my Tax Refund on May 4, 2009 6:59 PM
If you want the pension system fixed call on the Big Boys who get the Big Fat Pensions to fix the system. They are the ones getting the Big Fat Salaries.
I am simply reporting. If they don't fix the system that is enriching them, they will lose everything one day.
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You know, I never realized it but Fed Up might be right on the ribfest thread. This post seems to prove it. You are trying to set up yourself as a Christ figure. You try to warn people but everyone is out to get you. Very interesting. At least you admit that you are not interested in actually doing anything to fix the system. You only want to complain about it.
You do realize that under state law the police pension fund CANNOT force the city into reorganization:
"40 ILCS 5/3‑142)
Sec. 3‑142. Payment of benefits ‑ funds insufficient.
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If, thereafter, there still remain insufficient funds, the beneficiaries shall be paid pro rata from the available funds, but no allowance or order of the board shall be held to create any liability against the municipality, but only against the pension fund."
Buffett predicts massive inflation that will severely devalue the dollar and fixed incomes. Translation, pensions won't be worth much, same for Soc Sec checks.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/headlines/warren_buffett/2009/05/04/210480.html?s=al&promo_code=7F1D-1
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The Congressional Budget Office predicts that government debt will peak around 54 percent of GDP in 2011.
But Buffett told CNBC Monday morning that the ratio could surpass 80 percent — unless there are significant spending cuts or tax increases. ........
.........“A country that continuously expands its debt as a percentage of GDP and raises much of the money abroad to finance that, at some point, it’s going to inflate its way out of the burden of that debt,” Buffett said.
Experience proves that, he points out.
“Every country that has denominated its debt in its own currency and has found itself with uncomfortable amounts of debt relative to the rest of the world, in the end they inflate,” Buffett explains.
“That becomes a tax on everybody that has fixed dollar investments.” ...............
Anonymous,
Buffet is pretty much saying if we don't get our act together, the sky will indeed fall.
Thanks for your insightful and englightening comments as usual.
Furthermore, this may be of interest to our Moderator. Buffet also stated he would never invest a penny in a newspaper stock. He pretty much predicted newspapers will be history. I said the same a while back and agree with him full heartedly.
For lack of a better term, the sky will fall on all newspapers within the next 10 years. With the internet and cable news, they have pretty much become useless.
I use to subscribe to 3 newspapers. Now I subscribe to none. I simply have no use for them.
They are a waste of trees, ink, gas to deliver, manpower and just about everything else. The internet is more efficient and obviously less costly. Why would you want to advertize in the classifieds of the Chicago Tribune for a waitress if you can advertise on Craig's List for FREE. A few weeks ago a friend of mine put an ad for waitresses on Craig's List and got 550 applicants. He hired 50 of them. All very talented.
By Gary Menconi on August 25, 2008 9:51 AM
In my opinion as a financial professional,and former police pension trustee; Municipal, state, teacher, and gov't DP pension plans are a disaster waiting to happen. Given current actuarial assumptions, the underfunded status of most plans,and the future tax funding that will be required it is not a question of if but when these plans will implode.
Good article in the UK news on the effects of Obama's re-make of our corporate legal system and redistributing from the owners to the unions, his money men.
Chrysler bond holders, that's your 401K plan, administrators have received threats including death threats if they don't go along with Obama's transfer of ownership to the UAW.
Lets see, if the City and State go bankrupt, which they already are, can Obama now transfer the assets of the share holders (that's us the homeowners) to his Union buddies? Zero out the bank that has the loan, force the owner out of the house and give it to a union member to cover the cost of the unfunded pension?
Fast forward a couple of years......
We will only confiscate houses from the rich, anyone with a house worth more than $250K since they exploited someone to earn extraordinary amounts!
The Leader knows what's best for the people.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8495764
.....Risks in the United States include fears the dollar could dive because of the rapidly growing budget deficit and the potential for inflation because of radical moves by the Federal Reserve to flood the financial system with money.........
......With the Chrysler plan, critics say the government unfairly favored the automaker's union and ignored the rights of senior lenders who are legally allowed to get paid back before unsecured creditors such as workers.....
After sitting back and smoking a big fat doober, I decided the boys in blue at NPD deserve a 10% raise for keeping the City of Naperville the best place in the world to live....way to go boys!!!! Barry
Oops I did it again....the boys in blue popped me with some more wacky tobacky. No 10% raise for you guys!!!!! Barry