We really need to discuss the Big Fat Pensions and the 6% raises the police are demanding.
That is serious and will increase our real estate taxes until they become unbearable one day....or bankrupt the town and force it to reorganize under Chapter 9 according to Experienced.
Let me hear some solutions with no whining....please!!!!
No one has ever presented a solution.
Mine is to delay the retirement day for collection of benefits to 70 years old.
This is the same age that we civilians are entitled to full retirement pay under the Social Security System.
I am sure Sun Publications runs their blogs the same way for each, but I would like to attach the "rules" from a web site called bogleheads where mostly financial advice is discussed. The rules are good for all, and something I would like to see the Sun adopt. I'm sure Bogleheads is moderated full time, and probably not easily adopted by the Sun, but good advice for all.
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Rep Biggert is again sponsoring the "hate crimes bill".
This effectively sets up a two tier legal system where gays have more protections and rights than non gays. If a woman is assaulted by a man, it is a lesser penalty than if a "gay person" is assaulted by anyone.
This goes right down the line including employment law; quotas for gay employees will be the outcome forced by the courts and will become a factor in all employment decisions including promotions and pay raises. How does one know if a candidate for a job is gay?
Also, religious organizations will now have their beliefs substituted with the Official Federal Religious Beliefs, this is an assault on religion of all types and the right to free association.
If the govt can substitute one belief, they can substitute all beliefs. This is the establishment of a state religion.
Anonymous, about the blog rules suggestions, pretty much everything in there is something I've suggested at various times on this blog. I would encourage people to abide by those rules and I have done so. The only thing I cannot do is edit the posts. This is an all or nothing blog; either it is approved or it isn't.
Chris,
I once thought this is an all or nothing blog. I thought you could not edit.
But I once did not save a post and you found a sentence objectionable. I agreed that you remove it and you did. And then you successfully posted. I appreciated that.
Did you mean to say that you have the capability of editing but it goes against Sun Blog Policy?
BTW, I like the all or nothing blog rule you have. I think editing is inappropriate on a blog site.
As far as personal attacks you do permit them, but are against them.
Think about the phrase for a second.
You have the power not to permit them, but you do not exercise this power until the personal battle has escalated.
I stand by my belief that I always tackle an issue in City Hall and find myself under personal attack almost immediately. I almost never attack a blogger or even mention a blogger until I am personally attacked FIRST...which is very often. And bloggers have conceded I do not attack first. I am attacked because of my "writing style" which I am entitled too. It seems like the "writing style" bloggers refer to is my counter attacks which are only in retaliation to their personal attacks.
I believe a great reason I am attacked is I am calling for less benefits and no raises for now for City Employees.
They consider it personal and begin firig missiles. The reason they consider it personal is some of our bloggers have to be city employees and admitted that on a few unique occassions.
Once should have a right to suggest cuts to benefits of city employees if one feels his real estate tax is being impacted immensely.
I feel my real estate tax is being impacted greatly. Speaking of personal, sometimes when I complain about high taxes, I am told to get out of town.
Yes, I have the ability to edit posts but I'm not supposed to. Once in a great while I will if someone asks me to but for the most part no. I don't want this thread to turn into another debate about blog policies. There's a lot going on in Naperville and the world so let's talk about something more interesting.
With all the DUI arresets how many end up with convictions? I thought the new law about convicted DUI offenders was to have a breathalizer installed on any and all vehicles the offender may drive. Are our judges enforcing this law? These machines cost quite a bit to rent and have monitored. You would think that would have been a deterrent to driving under the influence. I see a lot of judgements in the paper about cases being dis-missed, whats that all about? Do you think our streets are safe? The police are doing their jobs making traffic stops, but are the courts following through with the publics best interest and safety in mind? What do you think? Wouldn`t it be interesting for the local paper to do a report on this DUI problem we seem to have?
Very true. There are people with DUI totals in double figures in Wisconsin. My parents are from Wisconsin and when we drive around the area they're from, it seems like every intersection they point out as one where someone they went to high school with was killed in a DUI accident.
Wisconsinites right to drink and drive is just as sacred to them as Illinois' politicians right to be on the take. Some things just can't be changed...
If you get a DUI in Dupage and get the right "connected" lawyer, he will get you off with a wink and a nod if you give him the right amount of dough.
I know a man who drives a Bentley who got off on his 4th DUI. He even got his Bentley back that was confiscated.
The bottom line is you need the right attorney and about 3500 dollars if you are a first time offender.
If you are a 3rd or 4th time offender, make sure you have 15,000 to pay your right "connected" attorney and that will get you off.
Yes, the system in Dupage is corrupt and you can buy your way out of almost everything but MURDER. Don't MURDER and you will never serve TIME.....as long as you have a lot of green cash to give to your attorney.
What if anything he or she does with some of that cash you give them is something I can not answer. I honestly don't know. But winks and nods are going on between defense attorneys and judges. Have I ever seen the wink and nod system in action? Yes, I did once and witnessed the winks and nods being exchanged. They were blatant. I thought I was in Cook County but it was Dupage County.
Speaking of DUI's whatever happened to the NPD officer who was arrested and blew TWICE the limit?? Does anyone know the results of the court case?? We are interested to find out results! thankz
CNN says Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Spector is switching from Republican to Democrat. I believe that either gives the Dems a filibuster-proof majority or puts them one away.
Spector has been a Democrat for 20 years, at least now he is out of the way so they can run a conservative in PA. If the Republicans are lucky McCain will defect too.
Filibustering is old fashioned, the Dems are now attaching everything to Budget Bills so only 51 votes are required.
Snow and Collins didn't get their weapons systems canceled that are built in Maine in exchange for going along with the "Stimulus Bill", Spector got 6 million for one of his favorites.
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By Chris Magee, moderatorAuthor Profile Page on April 28, 2009 11:39 AM
CNN says Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Spector is switching from Republican to Democrat. I believe that either gives the Dems a filibuster-proof majority or puts them one away.
I think the Democrats need one more, though it's looking increasingly likely that that one additional Senator is going to be Al Franken. We can probably now expect the Republicans to fight the Minnesota contest all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, if possible.
If you count Franken, they have 60. Maybe the Franken thing will be resolved before the next election; we'll see. I do think the filibuster is still important. The Democrats used it a lot during Bush's term and I don't think the Republicans would shy away from it. It's the last protection from one party just steamrolling everything through without consulting the other party.
If it plays out this way look for the Republicans to put on a run for Lieberman. He is Indipendent, but caucuses with the Democrats and I believe is counted in the total to reach 60? Lieberman was critical toward Jeffords when he did it a few years ago and contemplated a switch at that time.
I've never really minded gridlock in congress. If any one group gets too powerful they could potentially make sweeping changes where the effectiveness can only be evaluated in hindsight. Neither party has shown to be very good at any large scale change.
I don't know that there's any benefit for Lieberman to turn Republican. With the Democrats stronger now than they have been in years, why would he want to leave and lose the influence? You abandon the party and lose your committee positions. Those are the perks of being in control in Congress.
Of course the question with Lieberman is who abandoned who(or whom)? When he lost his primary every democrat supported his opponent. When he won as an indipendant they dramatically clipped his wings and his power has been fading ever since. when he spoke at the Republican convention he was roundly criticized by the Dems. He may just do it for spite!
Perhaps Lieberman, unlike so many of his colleagues, actually believes in something and the Obama agenda is not consistent with where Lieberman thinks we should go, or stay.
Spector was always left, but not far left, so apparently he is moving to his true home. Like Chaffee in RI he will probably lose to a farther left Democrat in the primary and disappear.
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By Chris Magee, moderatorAuthor Profile Page on April 28, 2009 2:32 PM
I don't know that there's any benefit for Lieberman to turn Republican. With the Democrats stronger now than they have been in years, why would he want to leave and lose the influence? You abandon the party and lose your committee positions. Those are the perks of being in control in Congress.
A Barrington High School student is charged with sexually assaulting two classmates and he is removed from the school system. Two Gregory Middle School students are charged with sexually assaulting a classmate and remain in not one Naperville school sytem but two. I guess I am wondering why does the Barrington school system work effectively in a similar incident and the Naperville districts are just simply not up to any kind of reasonable performance standard. In fact, Jeanette Clark is quoted as being concerned that the language of the new SD 204 policy is too harsh! Why do we seem to have the most incompetent people in positions of authority in SD 204? What is so elusive to SD 204 yet Barrington seems to have a good grasp on the discipline issue?
Maybe Lieberman does believe in something. I respect him because of his willingness to go against his party where he disagrees with them on subjects like Iraq even though he knows it won't make him popular. But I think from a practical standpoint he can be independent, caucus with the Democrats and still vote his conscience. There are a lot of Democrats who vote Republican on some issues and vice versa. For these types I'm not sure how much political affiliation means.
The difference between Barrington schools and the N'ville schools is like the difference between night and day. Enuff said,or does someone' want to sue me for $$$$$. You reap what you sow! mego my leggo
So just to be clear ---- you believe anyone who believes that spending is spiraling out of control, that deficits are rising too quickly, that the current Presiden't agenda is too large for the times, that taxes should not be increased ---- that WE are racists, unknowing, unaware, etc?
I understand now! Your intolerant, mean little mind is unable to handle any opinions that aren't in total alignment with your dogma!
The conservative Dems are in the House. There's a group called the Blue Dog Democrats who are conservative on issues like gun control and abortion. I don't follow national politics as closely as I used to so I'm not sure if there are any senators in the same class. I believe one of the Virginia senators was on the more conservative side. I consider Lieberman a Democrat. He just went independent because he lost the primary.
The cost figure of a DUI in DuPage county maybe more like $5000, first offense. If some has the facts and got by with less than 3000$ let us know. We think we have enough evidence to mount a legal challenge. We believe that the courts use same as cash cow,hence REPEATED multiple offenders are able to WALK. Take the case of NPD officer; tested at twice [2] the limit and played the system to walk away Scott Free. We need judicial review of the prosecutors and judges in Duplicios cty. Remember the 250 'mistakes' by judge in coach mike case?? What would happen to you if you committed 250 routine mistakes on a single job?? CONPA is still taking testimony or comments from the general population. Remember your kid or wife could be the next victim! CONPA
It is a big "No" on the Senate. I agree on Lieberman --- he's a Dem, and he is one of my fav pols. He is old school and still understands that the country's good should always be put ahead of partisanship and dogma.
You know, Councilman Furstenau is getting really scuzzy. It appears from the filings in the case that he is trying to get a gag order so that the public cannot learn what was going on in the case. He forgets that all of the pleadings are available on line. This is from the City Motion to enforce the settlement:
"In late March, all the Defendants in this case believed that a settlement had been reached. However, weeks after the settlement was reached, Furstenau wanted to renege on the deal. Furstenau suddenly refused to settle the case unless the City agreed to new material terms. Now, for the first time, Furstenau insisted on terms that would gag non-party public officials from commenting on, what is unmistakably, issues of public significance to the Naperville community - namely all issues relating to this very controversial lawsuit.” City motion introduction.
The city's motion is backed by emails and letters attached to the pleading that substantiate their point of view that Councilman Furstenau is the one who changed the agreement just before it was to go to the City Council last week. It is also backed by a statement in the Councilman's motion that set out the terms of the agreement:
"The agreement reached by Mr. Cummins and Mr. Sotos included the following material terms: a dismissal with prejudice of all claims by the Plaintiff; Defendant would not pay damages to Plaintiff; a mutual release of all claims by all parties; a denial of any liability; each side to bear its own costs and attorneys’ fees and the issuance of a mutual statement to the press concerning the settlement." Furstenau motion paragraph 2.
If the Councilman has his way, no one from the city could comment on topics such as legal fees that the city incurred. This topic of course is one that has been discussed on this forum for weeks and one that the public would like to see addressed. But the Councilman's new version of the settlement will squelch that discussion. I thought the Councilman was for open government, but I guess he isn't.
More importantly, the Councilman's change of heart is costing the citizens of Naperville more attorney fees because the city's counsel has to now go into court and again argue the case. Hopefully the judge will sanction him severely.
You know, Councilman Furstenau is getting really scuzzy.
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On the flip side, the City Attorney, former manager and several City Council personalities want the ability to keep trashing Furstenau over the suit after it's over.
Wasn't it the City Attorney who was cheering on the former city manager when he trashed Furstenau in his cowardly parting shot? The City Attorney is a player, yes stuff a sock in her mouth.
The City Attorney is a party to the suit. Furstenau is asking that even non-parties be silenced. How can we know about the attorney fees if they can't be discussed? He is trying to end public scrutiny of the money that he has cost the city in a losing effort.
Who is going to find out why the woman who attacked a NPD officer outside a bar kicking, screaming and punching was charged with a misdemeanor, and Furstenau who may have touched the officer was charged with a 15 year felony?
Where is the symmetry, I was really hoping this would go to trial in order to clarify what happened.
Either its over or its not? Who is to say if the City Attorney should be hauled up on Civil Rights violations for the disparity in the charges if they had a hand or vote in charging Furstenau?
Combine 1, Justice 0
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By Experienced on May 1, 2009 11:44 AM
By Anonymous on May 1, 2009 10:13 AM
The City Attorney is a party to the suit. Furstenau is asking that even non-parties be silenced. How can we know about the attorney fees if they can't be discussed? He is trying to end public scrutiny of the money that he has cost the city in a losing effort.
If the Councilman has his way, no one from the city could comment on topics such as legal fees that the city incurred. This topic of course is one that has been discussed on this forum for weeks and one that the public would like to see addressed. But the Councilman's new version of the settlement will squelch that discussion. I thought the Councilman was for open government, but I guess he isn't.
While I have not spoken to anyone recently, the legal feels that the City of Naperville are not the responsibility of DF and I do not believe they bother him as he was excluded from any decision regarding them. He had to recuse himself if you recall.
It appears our City is heading towards spending 2 million dollars as I long suspected on the Furstenau Case. It does not make Furstenau look silly. It makes the City look silly. DF apparently wants to bury the hatchet. They apparently do not. They want to continue bad mouthing him. Why should he agree to dismiss the lawsuit if he has a 5-50% chance of winning if they don't want to stop bad mouthing and bury the hatchet? Obviously, they intend on bad mouthing as much as possible prior to the next election. Party or non-party is the same. The parties to the lawsuit informs the non-party how and when to bad mouth him. It seems childish. Who wants people like Anonymous One, Keyboard Rambo and Fed Up with His Noise making noise and blowing their horns. Imagine, these guys might work for the city.
Furstenau spent no money on legal fees. His attorney took it on a contingency.
Speaking of legal fees is an embarrassement to the city.....not Fustenau. They are the ones in their infinite wisdom that spent 2,000,000 dollars to defend against a very petty "he said, she said" case that initially could have been resolved for a simply apology and later amounted to 113,000 dollars lawsuit.
The city did not get proper bids. They did not put caps. If you build a 113,000 dollar house, you retain a contractor who can build it for 113,000 or less. You don't hire a contractor who charges you 2,000,000 to build a 113,000 house. 1800% overruns in our society are not acceptable.
I am not surprised that DF wants a clause preventing the city officials from bad mouthing him. If they want to bad mouth him, they should have proceeded in court and gotten a positive verdict for $10,000,000. At that point they would have a right to bad mouth him with or without his permission. If they want to settle, there will be some restriction put on them.
The city apparently wants the rights earned by the Napergate Man after he won. He spoke against them. He told the truth. He held them accountable after his VICTORIES. He had a 3-0 rulling by the Illinois Appellate Court. He had a 2-1 ruling by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. He earned his right to speak up against City Officials for what they did to him. The city failed and did not earn its right to BAD MOUTH Mr. Furstenau. For Heaven's Sake, they are agreeing to a DISMISSAL....that does not translate to a victory no matter how you strecth the imagination.
The City of Naperville achieved no victories in the Furstenau Case. They wanted to settle as much as DF as they both feared losing. They both had bad cases. The city was bleeding cash. Attorney Sean Collins was also bleeding cash on behalf of DF. Enough was Enough for both sides.
Enough is Enough with this bad mouthing by City Officials. That is ridiculous immaturity. They need to move forward and not live in the past. They remind me of some of our silly and immature bloggers.
By Legal Fees will be over 2 million. on May 1, 2009 4:03 PM
You are not understanding my point. You, personally, have a lot of questions concerning the legal fees issue that you want answered. Am I correct?
Under the new language that the Councilman is trying to impose, the City will not be able to discuss that issue with the public. The public will never have their questions answered if the city can no longer discuss any part of the litigation with the public. You want to question caps; you want to question rates; you want to question specific work that the attorneys did; you want to question the number of attorneys and firms retained; you want to question why outside counsel was even retained. Under the councilman's attempted, unilatterally imposed provision, the city will not be permitted to answer ANY of your questions.
And, we haven't even discussed why he chose not to demand the language until the last minute when the matter was headed to council for approval. Can you explain to me why he waited so long to demand the change? Is that bargaining in good faith on his part? If you read the motions and the attachments, the matter was already to proceed to council on 4/8/09 without the gag order inclusion. The Councilman requested the delay so that it the terms would not be known until after the election. [Talk about lack of open government on his part.] Then he comes back and tries to change the terms on the Friday before the council was set to meet as the agenda packets were being prepared to be delivered for the April 21st meeting. There is no good faith on his part at all. No open government on his part at all.
If you and the public are satisfied not to have your questions answered on legal fees, then go ahead and back the gag order that was not negotiated. But, if you do, I don't want you to ever again question those fees if the City is not allowed to explain to you what happened. If you want answers and open government, then you should oppose the gag order. If the public is willing to move forward and not have their questions answered, then that's ok. If not, the public should be against the gag order.
I hope the Councilman get's severly sanctioned for his last minute antics that are driving up the fees even more.
The city failed and did not earn its right to BAD MOUTH Mr. Furstenau. For Heaven's Sake, they are agreeing to a DISMISSAL....that does not translate to a victory no matter how you strecth the imagination.
You keep ignoring the fact that it is Mr. Furstenau suing the city, not the other say around. The city never stood to gain anything from this lawsuit. When you're the defendant in a lawsuit, you win by not losing.
Since there was no court resolution I am against either side bashing the other side relentlessly and for no purpose.
As far as the legal fees, the firms used, why no caps were in place, I am with you 100%. I want openess and accountability.
DF should want the same.
I once spoke to him and he told me the legal fees of the city are not his responsibility. I agreed with him and still do.
But the City of Naperville can not pull another Napergate on us again. As you may or may not know, in the Napergate Cases, no fees were ever disclosed. City Officials either said they kept no records, had no records or lost the records.
Folklore believes they were buried with former Mayor Samuel Macrane as no one has ever been able to find them. Not even conservative Establishment opinion editor Tim West of the Naperville Sun could obtain them from City Officials. I believe that is the only time in his storied 36 years that Mr. West was every upset about anything city officials had ever done.
So I agree with you if this gag order is suppose to hide the legal fees. If it is simply to stop the bickering and dickering of "he said and she said", I am all for this gag order. At some point the hatchet needs to be buried.
The Naperville Sun ran an editorial after the Napergate Trials asking both parites to bury the hatchet. Both parties listened and the hatchet was buried. The Napergate Man never ran another Napergate ad and the City of Naperville stopped picking on him for his politicial views and affiliations. I would like to see another editorial by the Naperville Sun asking for a 2nd Burying of the Hatchet after the legal fees are disclosed.
I think we are mostly in agreement and I may have misunderstood some of what you were saying. My apologies!
By John Q. Public on May 1, 2009 6:42 PM
Legal Fees wrote:
You keep ignoring the fact that it is Mr. Furstenau suing the city, not the other say around. The city never stood to gain anything from this lawsuit. When you're the defendant in a lawsuit, you win by not losing.
True, you win by not losing by allowing the plaintiff to dismiss the case or having the Judge dismiss the case.
But if you are making a deal for dismissal as the City of Naperville is, you are not winning and you are not losing. It is basically a tie of sorts...it is like kissing your sister on the cheek. It is like making up.
If City Officials truly feel like they are 100% right, they should have let DF proceed, lose and hammer him for the 10 million in legal fees the city may have encountered. Apparently the city did not feel confident in winning or recovering of legal fees. They did not want to deal with the wrath of the taxpayers for spending 10 million dollars of their money on a silly case that could have been settled initially for an apology and a European Style Kiss on the cheek from man to man.
In the Napergate Man cases, he felt confident, would not make any deals and took it all the way and won. When he was done, he sued the City of Naperville for his 74,000 in legal fees and a few other punitive damages. The 7th Ciruit Court ruled 2-1 the city was guilty and most pay up.
Since the City did not appeal to the US Supreme Court, I believe they paid up.
I suspect some deal was made after the 7th Cirucit Court of Appeal decision as we never heard details from either side. Prior to the deal the Napergate Man was disclosing everything about his legal battles. He hushed up after his settlement and switched to zoning issues that concerned subdivisions throughout Naperville.
So I guess gag orders are sometimes part of settlements.
However, I do not feel the legal fees that we taxpayers encouter should never be part of any gag order. I agree with Experienced on this issue.
Maybe the city has changed its tune after the Napergate Cases. In those cases they did not want anyone to know the legal fees. I assume because they lost and they knew they will be faulted.
In this case they want Napervillians to know DF cost them 2 million dollars of their tax money. They believe it will have a great impact on the next election. They believe the taxpayers will oust DF in the next election. They want to make sure he is never the next Mayor of this town.
I think DF should let them disclose the legal costs and blame the city for the massive legal costs as I am. It can be done. The knife slices both ways in the DF Case. The knife only sliced one way in the Napergate Case. Maybe he feels the city can spend more resources on the blame game since they have more manpower and money than he has. I really don't know and am strictly speculating.
Anyway, I see hypocrisy here. The City only wants the legal fees disclosed when they feel it will damage someone else.
When they thought it would hurt them in the Napergate Cases they did not want them disclosed. They went as far as losing them....not keeping records....misplacing them...burying them. No one ever saw them to the best of my knowledge. Not even Editor Tim West who demanded them.
Do you guys, Experienced and OJQP, feel or see a touch of hypocrisy. I know you are both in general pro city but I also know you at times can call it as it is and be FAIR!
Judges do not often order plaintiff's to pay the defenses legal costs when the plaintiff loses, so the city would be taking a huge gamble if it opted to force the process to proceed on that basis alone. In settling now, the city probably comes out a few million ahead of where it likely would be if the case proceeded, win or lose. So this is a good deal for the city.
It's also a smart move by DF right now, but only because his case is looking more and more like a loser. This current legal battle was started by him. He is getting nothing out of this settlement other than an end to an ongoing headache that he wouldn't have if he hadn't launched the suit in the first place.
I agree that judges rarely order any side to pay the others legal fees. One reason is they themselves let the case proceed indicating it had merit. A judge can dismiss any case he feels has no merit before it ever goes to trial.
Yes, the city is saving millions of dollars by agreeing to a negotiated settlement. Any yes, DF and Sean Collins realize their case was weakening by the week. Of course, they blamed it on a very pro-police biased judge.
As far as who started the legal battle, it was not DF. It was the city for charging him. I think DF may have been emotional about seeing cars towed that should not be towed because signs were not posted as the council instructed the police. While I don't know and was not there, I do believe he touched the officer to make his point. Maybe he gently pushed him.
But attempting to overcharge him with a felony was OVERKILL. It p$ssed him off. A felony is very serious charge and can land one in jail for 15 years. No one deserves 15 years for touching, pushing or gently backhanding a cop to make a point. That is insane. How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat? Sh$t happens when people are emotional.
I don't think he should have been charged with even a misdemeanor. The Mayor, City Manager or Police Chief should have had a serious chat with him and warned him. If he did not heed the warning, then next time charge him with a misdemeanor.
I know the Naperville Police pretty well. They can be anal when enforcing the law. They can be selective when enforcing the law. They can even be discriminatory at times when enforcing the law. I can not read the minds of the NPD, but I honestly believe Mayor Pradel, Miller or Wehrli would not have been charged in similar circumstances. I believe DF feels the same way. So he felt discriminated against and dealt harshly with.
Keep in mind he did not touch the cop just for the hell of it. He touched him in whatever appropriate or inappropriate way because he was angry that his constituents cars were being towed. No one denies the city failed to put up signs. So there has to be some understanding.
The Boston guard Rondo and Bulls guard Hinrich probably did not mean to fight in that 6th game. They ended up pushing and shoving each other pretty badly. The league could have suspended them both. But they understood it was in the heat of the moment. The City of Naperville should have understoond the scuffle between DF and the police officer was in the heat of the moment. No charges were necessary. This is the cause of the lawsuit and what led to the lawsuit. If you are a basketball player you need to punch with a closed fist to get an ejection. If you are a council man or anyone else I think you need to also punch a cop with a closed fist to get a felony. Imagine a basketball player gets a one day suspension for punching a fellow basketball player. But if we punch a cop, we spend 15 years in jail. That just seems a bit much to me.
When you can not resovle petty matters like members of the same family, millions of dollars will be lost by the taxpayers. This was the case here....sadly.... It could have all been avoided. Both sides could have done much better. Because they did not the taxpayers took it up the WAZZZOOOOOOOOOOOO as usual!
By dannosden on May 3, 2009 8:57 AM
Geeze can't you folks put this Furstenau thing to rest.
Isn't there more important things to worry about these days?
Remember it is still unsettled and the outside legal attorneys are still creaming us which increases our taxes. We need to stop the milking of the Naperville Taxpayer by both sides. How long can we take it up the WAZZZZZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Legal Fees will be over 2 Million at 4:52 AM stated the following:
"No one deserves 15 years for touching, pushing or gently backhanding a cop to make a point. That is insane. How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat?"
Really? You think it's perfectly acceptable to "gently backhand" a police officer to make a point? And that "touching" your spouse and "pushing" your children are acceptable?
Interesting. I wonder how you'd feel if someone did the same to you.
You don't push or "backhand" the police. That's not okay under any circumstance.
And you don't hit your spouse or throw around your kids.
How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat? Sh$t happens when people are emotional.
Put me down as someone who has never touched my spouse or my kids in a moment of heat. It does seem to fill in some additional questions about some of the bloggers here though.
Several weeks ago, AG Holder stated that "90% of the guns confiscated in Mexico come from the USA".
This means that large quantities of fully automatic military weapons were purchased in the US. The problem is they can't be purchased in the USA.
After Mr. Holder's propaganda was analyzed, it turns out that only 15% of the guns come from the USA.
However, it is a fact that 85% of the narcotics coming into the USA are allowed in by the FEDs through our wide open border and the cash is allowed out. The same gangs that traffic in humans, also traffic in narcotics, guns, extortion and large scale kidnapping in the USA.
The trick wording from the AG's office, then repeated by Pres. Obama and the Sun, is that 90% of the guns that are suspected as originating in the US are later verified as being of US origin, 15% of the total seized. Therefore, 85% of the guns are not originating in the USA.
Since thousands of tons of narcotics are smuggled in and out of Mexico every year, it's not hard to imagine that fully automatic military grade weapons are smuggled into Mexico from all over the world.
Perhaps, like the mail order companies; each shipment of Afghan opium, heroin and hash comes with 50 free AK47s in the shipping container as a bonus. Silencers are optional.
Where are the Naperville police when it comes to arresting bicycle riders? Bike rider are totally out of control and the majority fail to stop at red lights and stop signs, the go the wrong way on one way street, avoid signaling there intentions, fail to yield to vehicles, fail to stop for school buses and a complete disregard of motor vehicles around them. Time to initiate the arrest of law breaking bike riders. Remember, bicycle riders must follow the same laws as other vehicles on the road. Stop the selective enforcement and treat all vehicles on the road the same.
I agree that judges rarely order any side to pay the others legal fees. One reason is they themselves let the case proceed indicating it had merit.
Or may have merit. I don't know how the law works in Illinois, but in other states a judge can also issue a summary judgment for the plaintiff if he feels that the defendant doesn't have a case. Arguing that a plaintiff's case must have merit if the judge lets it proceed is a little like saying a defendant in a criminal case must be guilty if the police arrested him---or, for that matter, if the judge lets the case proceed to trial.
And:
As far as who started the legal battle, it was not DF.
It was DF who chose to continue the battle after he was acquitted of the criminal charges, though. He certainly did not have to do this. He would not be in the position he's in today fighting an uphill battle just to get back to the starting line if he hadn't chosen to launch this lawsuit.
And:
Keep in mind he did not touch the cop just for the hell of it. He touched him in whatever appropriate or inappropriate way because he was angry that his constituents cars were being towed. No one denies the city failed to put up signs. So there has to be some understanding.
It doesn't matter why he touched the cop, he should not have been confronting him in the first place. A very good argument can be made that he obstructed a police officer from doing his duty, which is a crime. That he was not arrested on the spot may actually have been a sign of the deference the officer paid to him as a city councilman. You can argue that CM Wehrli or Mayor Pradel would not have been arrested at all, but how do you think the average citizen would have been dealt with in that situation? It's rather silly for Furstenau to think (if, in fact, he does) that his "rights" were violated because he wasn't shown the favoritism that another official might have been shown in the same situation.
I also wish we could put the Furstenau thing behind us. Unfortunately, it seems as though Furstenau just wont let us.
Despite the fact that he claims to want to ensure transparency for the taxpayer, Furstenau seems to now want to hide the costs he brought on the city. Yes, the city could have settled early and not spent the money on legal fees. But what message does that send to all the other blowhards with ego problems who might think of filing suit in the future?
Also, I love JQPs "It's rather silly for Furstenau to think (if, in fact, he does) that his "rights" were violated because he wasn't shown the favoritism that another official might have been shown in the same situation." This really encapsulates very clearly what I have thought and what has been said here many times.
You have hit on why Furstenau will not take his mental exam! He "thinks" he is better than the law and those that would enforce it. Wehrli and Pradel would not have been treated differently, they are both smart enough to not put themselves in that position. Dick has made a federal lawsuit out of his ego and his lack of understanding that he is not always right. He thinks that the world is graced with his wisdom and can not understand it when the world goes in a different direction that his vision for it. Tasers, towing, cops are out to get me, staff is always wrong, etc. Now he wants to muddy the waters of government by gagging those that would speak out against him and his poor desision-making skills. All we are missing are the brownshirts and Dick growing a little square mustashe...
Now I am making an assumption that DF may have touched a cop appropriately or inappropriately and simply stating he should not be charged with a FELONY that can land one in jail for 15 years. I was not there and do not know if he even touched a cop. It is just an assumption on my part.
Now if a cop was pushing your child around inappropriately because he was mouthing off, you may also touch the officer and tell him to stop. Should you be jailed for 15 years because you interfered with a cop doing his so called "duties."
Not to long I watched a cop on TV lasering a lady repeatedly and often even though she posed no threat to him. She had simply been drinking and may have said a word or two. She was wearing a skirt and high heels and did not look like the fighting type....could hardly keep her balance without being lasered. Everytime he lasered her she fell down and banged her head on her car. If someone interfered and told him to cool it before he lasers her to death, should he be jailed for 15 years because he may have touched the cop to get him to come to his senses.
And I am 100% certain Mayor Pradel would not have been arrested if he touched a cop and said, "My son you can not be towing cars when your department failed to post the proper signs and notices."
The city used a double standard on DF. He had a right to sue. Unfortuantely, he needed a little more proof to win.
The city used a double standard on the Napergate Man that was later exposed in an unbelievable way as his case proceeded from courtroom to courtroom. He had confiscated more fake IDs than all other liquor establishments COMBINED times a multiple of 5 or 6. And yet they went after his jugular to let him pay for his politics.
We know how the courts ruled because the city used double standards and violated the EQUAL RIGHTS CLAUSE or whatever clause of the constitution. I am not a constitutional law expert.
The city has no right to treat DF any differently than any other citizen or council members just because they don't like his politics. DF is always criticising the PD in almost every council session due to its wasteful spending. They took revenge on him and tried to incarcerate him for 15 years. They want to continue receiving their Big Fat Pensions and do not want to be questioned.
DF was just unlucky and did not have the videotapes needed to prove his case. The Napergate Man was documenting and videotaping knowing the City was up to no good. Everyone should know you can't beat a police department or City Hall if you don't have the proof. DF simply did not have the proof.
The Napergate Man case should have taught our City Officials you can not have double standards. Since Mayor Pradel would never have been arrested for touching a cop and telling him what you are doing is inappropriate, logic follows that DF should also never have been arrested.
If the city played by the rules, we would have 2 million dollars in our city coffers instead of in outside law firms coffers. If they played by the rules in the NGM case we would have 10 million plus 2 million dollars in our coffers. That is 12 million and more than the 11.5 million deficit we had last year that resulted in lay-offs for many city employees and other cuts throughout the city.
Discrimination is not good. Sometimes the City of Naperville consciously or subconsciously discriminates. Most police officers know that. The practice should be stopped immediately if it has not been already stopped.
"The city has no right to treat DF any differently than any other citizen or council members just because they don't like his politics."
1. Unfortunately for DF's case, there is no evidence to back up your assertion that Mayor Pradel or another councilman would have been treated differently, however likely that might be.
2. Even if it could be established that Mayor Pradel, et. al., would have been treated differently, DF does not have a right to demand the same preferential treatment. We all have a constitutional guarantee to equal protection of the law; no one has a constitutional claim on unequal, preferential protection.
3. Finally, DF likely was accorded more respect than the Napergate Man or any other average citizen would have received. If you don't believe me, try walking up to a cop while he's writing a ticket or arresting a bar patron and make incidental contact with him while you try to talk him out of his course of action. See where it gets you. Heck, see where it gets you even if you absolutely do not make contact.
All your points are very good. All my points in my opinion are also very good.
We will never know the truth and nothing but the truth.
For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them.
I was told if you have an issue with a cop don't fight him on the street....he always wins. Fight him in court where you have a fighting chance. That is what I practice. I am sure DF will be practicing the same philosophy in the future.
You converted it to hit your spouse and throw around your kids.
Your play with semantics is reprenhensible.
I believe most people in the world do at times touch or push if they are trying to make a point during a heated family dispute. Sh$t happens in most families and people get over it. Sometimes that is what it takes to instill some discipline.
I have been touched and touched. I have been pushed and pushed. If my daughter or son want to go out at 1am to smoke pot or drink and they were not listening, you can be assured I pushed them right into their bedrooms and threw them on their beds.
In my opinion letting them go drink or smoke pot when they are minors is irresponsible parenting. I may push them when necessary but I also may have saved their lives. Kids need to be shown who the boss is. If you are a parent they will test you. If you show weakness, they will ride you and self-destruct themselves in the process.
I will continue pushing my kids if they think I am going to let them succumb to the peer pressure that resonates throughout Naperville.
Let your kids go drinking if you like, Mark. But if the Naperville Police call you to tell you your kids are in jail or seriously injured, I bet you would wish you pushed them as I pushed my kids.
"For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them."
Well Legal Fees, unless this is one of your self professed lies to throw the group off your track, we now understand where your cop-hating originates.
That you would dare to use Drew Peterson as a poster boy for police is an extreme insult to the thousands of officers around this country hoping for his arrest and conviction.
You continually underestimate their workload, job stress and portray them as lazy liars, with the occasional "praise for a job well done" such as the liquor store robbery, which then comes off as patronizing and fake. (And here is a hint about the written word, when you call them BRAVE officers in the same sentence in which you are criticizing them, the brave becomes a sarcastic remark to the reader, whether you meant it that way or not.)
So now we know your opinion of the police department, what did the fire department do to earn your disdain?
Why was DF charged with a 15 year felony and the woman that kicked, punched and fought with the police in the same downtown in front of a bar at night was only charged with a misdemeanor?
I would like to know, the fact that City Officials spent millions of dollars defending their attempt to railroad Furstenau potentially into prison is what disgusts me.
With Senger gone, there are only Kruase and Furstenau left to give voice to the homeowners.
With the City built out and the housing market in collapse; hopefully the developers will take themselves and their contributions to a green-field far away from Naperville and fund their politics.
Apparently the signers of the Constitution that believed in:
*limited-small government
*Constitutional limits on power
*and Federalism aka power is bottom up, not top down from the leader
would make the terrorist suspects list.
Rep Biggert's anti-free-speech thought-control bill will add Christians that read the Bible to this list.
If you favor what many believe to be the murder of 50 million non-persons you are not an extremist. If you question the murder of non-persons than you are an extremist.
Hate =
anti abortion
anti gay marriage
own a bible and a gun
served in the military and go to church
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(U) rightwing
extremism
(U//FOUO) A movement of rightwing groups or individuals
who can be broadly divided into those who are primarily
hate-oriented, and those who are mainly antigovernment and
reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority.
This term also may refer to rightwing extremist movements
that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to
abortion or immigration.
(also known as far right, extreme right)
Sorry to jump into the middle of this fray but another news item caught my interest this morning that we might be better off discussing...
According to the Crains ComEd and actually lowered electric rates by 7.5% to their utility customers. What this means is that the new, lower rate will now be $33.23 per megawatt hour. Now this only applies to about 1/3 of the total power that ComEd purchases, though the new rate for this 1/3 is reported to be about one half of the old rate. Considering the current economy everyone could benefit from lower utility costs.
Utility rates have fallen hard across the board in the last year. Considering that we in Naperville are currently paying $60.49 per megawatt hour I am surprised that no one is screaming bloody murder at why such an enormous difference between the two rates? What is the Illinois Power Agency doing for electric customers in Naperville? Why have our rates not been adjusted?
Was anybody else offended at all with Mego's column on 4/22?
It was pretty clear that he called the folks who attended any TEA parties uninformed, unknowing, and racists.
What IS his problem?
Anonynmous, I have always enjoyed Bill Mego's comments but this one offened me also. It's like he is saying I'm a journalist who can come and go where I want because it's the nature of my job. Where were all the protesters? Well Bill we were at work trying to scrape up some cash so we might pay our sky high taxes! You know like those driven by salaries which are clearly out of control like the teachers and cops. If you thought about this in more depth you might see that we are only fed up with these crazy taxes and we are not uninfirmed, unknowing and racist but perhaps you are.
By Anonymous on May 5, 2009 4:39 AM
"For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them."
I have never met a Naperville Fire Fighter. I have also called for their salaries and pensions to be reduced equally to the Naperville Police Officers. There are no lies or hate involved.
For you to try to portray my concern for high taxes as being hateful towards police is despicable. It shows how low you and your ilk will go to defend these Big Fat Pensions that the taxapyers can ill afford anymore.
Basically, I was making a point that you don't argue with a police officer on the street as DF did. It is nice that you twist my thoughts. I think he should have stayed away from the cop even though his intentions were good, but I also think charging him with a felony that could land him 15 years in jail is OVERKILL. It cost us taxpayers nearly 2 million dollars and the clock is still running on our legal fees as the case remains in limbo.
I am surprised all my points go over your head and now you are calling me a cop hater. You guys will do anything to destroy the credibility of a person who wants to control government waste and reduce taxes. Anyone can see through your ongoing nonsense.
You probably are from the same group who called the Napergate Man a cop hater because he stood up for his constitutional rights. What's new? You might as well get a job picking up the recyclables along the curbs since you love to recycle. At least you would not be recycling the garbage you recycle on this blog stie.
By Legal Fees will be over 2 million. on May 5, 2009 4:30 PM
Basically, I was making a point that you don't argue with a police officer on the street as DF did. It is nice that you twist my thoughts. I think he should have stayed away from the cop even though his intentions were good, but I also think charging him with a felony that could land him 15 years in jail is OVERKILL.
---------------------------------
First, did the City charge the Councilman or did the city defer to the States Attorney to charge the councilman after due consideration? Was the charge to the Councilman backed by a court order in support thereof?
Second, is your unbridled support of the Councilman due to the fact that you have personal experience in a similar situation?
I noticed the last post was 6:15pm. Has it been a real slow day or are you taking an evening off from blogging. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods and you are OK....and free from the swine flu.
I have had 2 bouts with food poisoning the last 2 months and was knocked out 2 evenings. I hope you are not ill and it is just a slow day due to the beautiful weather.
I was out ealier today playing softball with the kids and it was just gorgeous.
I'm off this week so other people are moderating. I'll check it occasionally but don't expect it to be updated as frequently as usual this week. I'm back in the office on Monday.
Or maybe put the comments into something like a Twitter format to nip some of the excessive wind bagging that goes on...
I learn more from a short, one paragraph post most of the time... USA Today style. The posts that drone on and on... well I don't even bother to scan them anymore.... wasted time, effort, and words IMO.
By Anonymous on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM
Or maybe put the comments into something like a Twitter format to nip some of the excessive wind bagging that goes on...
I learn more from a short, one paragraph post most of the time... USA Today style. The posts that drone on and on... well I don't even bother to scan them anymore.... wasted time, effort, and words IMO.
The problem with your style is no one knows what you are talking about or even who you are addressing. No one knows what post you are referring to. It seems like reading your post was wasted time, effort and words IMO. I say stick with the USA Today. At least they know what they are talking about.
Thank-God for DF and stick'in to his story. That must really hack you combiners off!! Ha ha ah;] don't worry like the other poster blogged,your town is being exposed>: Why won't any of you talk about the dui sarge or the propensity of NPD to lie/fabricate/custom-tailor reports? Why was the 'lady' who was violent and under-influence CHARGED only with a minor,while DF was felony? Remember even the dupage office DECIDED not to SUPPORT the felony charge? He was on city charges hence the SET UP, are you guys really that dense?Million -plus and you mr/ms taxpayer end up with an empty bag of baloney. How long will this go on?? Arrested for stealing 4 dollars worth of signs. pastors,priest,business people,elected officials please push for REMEDIATION process at NPD it works to help everyone-police-citizens-court burdens,lowers legal fees-- this sign theft and the pink I-pod case could have gone there,perhaps. What if DF had asked for REMEDIATION of 'problem' mis-understanding.
Why don't we talk about serious things like the problems in Pakistan, where the US is about to get embroiled in. This could make Iraq look tame in comparison. Remember, the bad guys are just 100 miles from the center of government with designs on overthrowing the government, and getting hadns on about 50 nukes. Doesn't anyone care about this?
Is it just me or does it seem a bit fishy the article on Sgt Brantner-Smith retiring? Ya, they say to work with her husband but??? I mean 1 1/2 yrs from 30 yrs? And doesn't it say something that a male under her got Cmdr? I know the times back then discriminated even more but, & maybe she didn't want that position but still. How many female officers do they have above sgt?
Cookie Roberts was on Craig Ferguson today & asked him what percentage of white males are their in the US? 36%! She also commented she asked others when they became the minority & they told her they never were the majority...they just acted like it. I'm not trying to devalue men but it is very interesting statistics.
To International issues facing US tapayers on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM--
Maybe it's because the whole Pakistan thing is so depressing. To have US troops fighting extremists in 2 foreign countries already and now have a 3rd be a possibility? As an American I am really sick of having my country police the world largely by itself. Nukes in the hands of the Taliban are a threat to all western countries, not just the US. Where's the EU and other developed nations in all of this? Largely staying out of it and letting the US take responsibility as usual.
Right now there are no plans to send US troops into Pakistan and I would like to see it stay that way but I fear it won't. If the nukes are the main concern, perhaps the US can go in and move the arsenal out if this is possible? Or destroy them if it looks like they will fall into Taliban hands. But if the Pakistanis don't care that the Taliban takes over enough to fight them, no other country should do it for them. We all get the government we deserve. And if foreign forces are asked to help, it should be a multi-nation effort--EU, this means you--to send the message that the developed world won't tolerate extremism, just not the US.
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development Foreclosed on by the Bank last week. on May 8, 2009 4:22 PM
Here is a story that is not being reported on in the local media and should be.
The huge Seven Bridges 400 acre development that was started by the Moser Group of Naperville and the Harris Group in a joint venture in 1987 was foreclosed on last Thursday by the banks.
Moser and the Harris Group invested over 250 million in this project and developed it for 22 years. It was about 90% complete. All for nothing. Imagine that. They were most likely upside down and the banks refused to extend or renew the loans and forced a foreclosure. A beautiful Life Style Plaza equal or larger in size to our entire downtown going down the tubes in a split second after 22 years of hard work and tons of money. Truly a sad story. My heart goes out to the Moser family.
The Mosers literally developed every subdivison in Naperville. At one time their wealth was believed to be over 750 million. It seems like the possibility exists that they overleveraged themselves or their company and lost a substantial amount of their wealth if not all of it.
I am a little surprised this kind of news is not reported in the Naperville Sun.
Speaking from a lot of experience, if there is one thing the Europeans recognize it's a free lunch.
Expect no help from the W. European countries if they can dump the political, human and economic costs off on the USA.
What the W. European politicians do want, and have been successful at achieving, is to dominate the US political, economic and military positions through various treaties and organizations.
Europe (UK is the exception along with the Danes) will allow the US to eat terrorist attacks all day long if it costs them nothing. The US will always be the first target unless we decide to sell out our allies around the globe. Chavez good, Columbia bad; allow Islamists to take over all of the countries in the Middle East etc....
Islamists are the guys that execute widows for working to feed their kids.
The W. Europeans have systematically colonized themselves with Muslim minorities that have much higher birth rates and have no intention of becoming liberal post Christian W. Europeans who they see as culturally and morally inferior; which is hard to argue with. This is still being done for cheap labor.
What the Europeans do have is police states, apparently this is the vision for our future.
*****************************
By what the? on May 8, 2009 2:23 PM
And if foreign forces are asked to help, it should be a multi-nation effort--EU, this means you--to send the message that the developed world won't tolerate extremism, just not the US.
Both Iraq and, especially, Afghanistan have been multi-national efforts from the start. More than a dozen European countries currently have troops in Afghanistan, including both France and Germany.
The other nations' commitments to Afghanistan are misleading if you look at numbers. Many of them only contributed troops on the understanding that they would not be fighting. They are doing rebuilding work, but they leave it to the Americans to do the fighting. It's not exactly an even commitment.
My point was that the international community in general, and the Europeans in particular, have not been standing idly by, despite what you might hear in other quarters. It is true that many of the coalition countries' troops are there in a support capacity, but there are also many that ARE participating actively in the fighting. And even those that are only in support roles are doing important work in a dangerous environment; their presence means that we don't have to send even more American troops.
-JQP
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development foreclosed on by the Bank last week. on May 10, 2009 1:38 AM
Moderator Chris,
Just curious why a potential 250 million dollar foreclosure in the Seven Bridges Development by Moser Development and his partner is not worthy of a story in the Naperville Sun.
The Mosers are a very famous family in Naperville. Possibly the richest and one time most successful. They had their hand in the development of almost every subdivision in Naperville. They use to own Moser Lumber which provided most of the building material for the growth until Home Depot and Loews chipped away at the business gradually.
Is the Naperville Sun really that short handed that they can not cover a big story of this significance???
One phone call to the bank and one phone call to Moser Enterprises with some comment and reactons and we can have an interesting story. I am sure I am not the only one in town that would be interested in this story and what led to this massive failure of a 400 acre develpment in the the making for 22 years. So much has been written about their successes in the Naperville Sun the last 40 years. Is it taboo for the Naperville Sun to write a story about a failure the Mosers had???
I believe at one time they had some ownership in the Naperville Sun....not 100% sure. I do not believe they have any ownership currently.
I haven't been in the office in a week so I am out of the loop. If what you say about the Moser development is true it seems like something we will write about. There may be someone working on it now for all I know.
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development foreclosed on by the Bank last week. on May 10, 2009 7:19 AM
Moderator Chris,
I talked to 2 of the tenants who confirmed it. Charlie Cabana and Tilted Kilt.
I even called the sign on the vacant stores and talked to the broker who also confirmed it.
He told me he was no longer the broker due to the foreclosure a week ago Thursday and can no longer discuss or negotiate any matter pertaining to Seven Bridges. But he did CONFIRM it was forcclosed on.
Most people I spoke to found it almost impossible to believe due to Moser's extreme wealth and success of the past. I believe he had a partner known as Harris Group which I know very little about unless they are affiliated with the Harris Bank in Naperville.
As a frequent visitor to this Life Stlye Development, it seemed like an astonishing success after 22 years of hard work. In my opinion it was laid out real nice with a Main Street and the right mix of tenants. In some ways it was competing with downtown Naperville as it had numerous restaurants, bars, and lounges.
They also had Edward Health Fitness, The 3 Rink 7 Bridges Hockey Arena, The Huge Cinema Complex, Buffalo Wild Wings, Krispy Kreme, the Signature Banquent Hall, the six 6-story buildings, the 12 story building and the list goes on. A huge hotel may have been halted before ground was broken.
The rents in the Plaza were 25-27 dollars per square foot. The CAM and Real Estate Tax were another 8 dollars per sq. ft. My understanding was due to the economic downtown many tenants had fallen months behind on their rent. If the tenants can not pay the landlord, the landlord can not make his mortgage payments to the bank. Thus the bank has no choice but to foreclose.
Keep in mind banks are not loaning money like 5 years ago. Also banks are not renewing old loans. The decrease in value of the property was another contributing factor to the foreclosure as the bank did not feel the mortgage was properly collaterized. The loans were based on the old appraised valuations that were much higher than the current valuations. Lower valuations make it feasible the property became upside down in comparison to the mortgage value.
I don't think Moser Development will issue a press release saying the banks foreclosed on us. It is unwelcome and embarassing news. They probably don't want anyone to know. They will not call the Naperville Sun. You will have to call them and hope they do not say, "no comment."
Thus your only source until you dig a little deeper is this one lonely Citizen Journalist.
In a country with 75% to 80% unemployment, why don't we pay them to do the fighting?
Why are the current Afghan police and military forces not getting paid for months? Does all of the foreign aid we send end up in Switzerland?
Why do the Afghan Government and the Allies allow the open and unlimited cultivation of Opium poppies which funds the Taliban and Al Queda? Does it also fund Afghan, European and American politicians?
Stories I've read about the situation in Afghanistan suggest it is a lot more complicated than it may seem. As you noted, the unemployment rate is out of hand and many if not most of the "Taliban" fighters are just people who are fighting for money, not those who believe in the ideology. If they had jobs that paid better than fighting for the Taliban, they wouldn't fight, but creating jobs is hard. Growing poppies is one of the few things that pays more than fighting for the Taliban, and when coalition forces burn their fields that takes away that option. Plus you have a situation like Vietnam where fighters go out and make attacks, then return to their villages and look just like anyone else. Our troops don't know for sure who's fighting against them, and any time they kill the wrong person by mistake it hurts the effort more. The Afghan government is massively corrupt. You ask where the aid goes - corruption eats up a lot of it. Corruption is endemic in most of the nations in the world and is always especially bad in poor nations with no history of stable democratic government. The top American general on the scene is on record saying we can never win with just the military, and he is correct. It's a really tough situation with no easy answers. One thing I know is that as long as the Taliban fighters can move back and forth across the Pakistani border there's no way to ever stop them.
This week is National Police Week! I thank all the officers who give more than can ever be measured or paid back in any way. We are lucky to have you take care of us and provide a lovely community.
And this is only 1 citizen's opinion which is probably not worth anything, but I didn't find Chief Dial's point of 'making mistakes and learning from them' appropriate in his most recent piece reflecting on the Month of May, in particular National Police Week. You are right; National Police Week should be about honoring the fine officers of Naperville, so do just that. This is not the time or place to bring up they make mistakes. We all know that. Why would we expect them to be anything other than human? Was he suggesting that the officers who died of traffic accidents were all due to their own fault and this is why additional training is needed? How sad to point that out even if it was indeed the case. Somehow I don't think it was just due to officer error. The majority of the emphasis for National Police Week was written on fallen officers, and while I agree they should be honored, he just lightly mentioned "celebrate the great things that the law enforcement community excels in." Why not tell us! Why not have your piece show some stats on what the officers of your department have done in the last year that many of us may have no awareness of. We may appreciate them even more & those who do not might begin to. Somehow I don't think I, nor the public, really need to know the age span AND avg age of those who died. Not like that is something I'm going to be remembering and telling others, even for some bar trivia. And no I don't frequent bars, just making a point. We do however need to know how much crime has been taken care of in the community. Perhaps you won't have people thinking your officers are overpaid then!
Chief Dial mentioned Sgt. Brantner Smith retiring just saying she had varies duties in 28 yrs. Man, if that is all you can say, I'd be glad to retire from your dept. There is nothing else you can say about her but wish her well. You can't provide any statistics on all she has done?! Show how proud you are of her to the community who may not know what she has all done. It reads like a bare minimum generic recommendation. I know he may have done more at some retirement dinner or something, but the community needs to hear it also. Blend it all together with National Police Week and the Awards rather than have it read like a schedule of events which can be on the paper's calendar. Again, this is just one opinion which is worth absolutely nothing of course. I just read it and felt like I was more passionately proud of the officers than how the article read.
Hey mulithandle blogger - Did you read the article in today's Sun? Hahahahaha... Oh lordy, the sky is a fallin...Bunch of hyped up nonsense for the sake of spewing garbage on a blog site.
My other concern is that the US cannot afford to be world policeman, we doubled our handouts to mostly corrupt governments as if we still are lording over the world with a surplus budget. We look more like ancient Roman Empire every day. The more we get into debt the more likely we will have to do the bidding of China and other countries carrying our debt. We already are in this position. Now the question is "what are we going to do to get out of this trend?". Spend more and give up more freedom?
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development foreclosed on by the Bank on May 14, 2009 3:56 AM
By Anonymous on May 12, 2009 8:37 AM
Hey mulithandle blogger - Did you read the article in today's Sun? Hahahahaha... Oh lordy, the sky is a fallin...Bunch of hyped up nonsense for the sake of spewing garbage on a blog site.
I never said the sky is falling. I stated Moser lost all his money that he put in the 7 Bridges investment because of this foreclosure. Apparently the Sun was able to confirm my news tip was accurate. Without my tip, they would have never known about the story. It happened April 15 and they were wrote about it on May 12 after I spilled the beans. At least we know the Sun treats us as Citizen Journalists and takes those of us who are credible seriously. I am very pleased with the Sun. Doing an article late is better than never doing an article.
If you own $50 million of commercial property and the bank forecloses on you, you lose your entire investment to the bank. Moser lost his entire investment in Seven Bridges. His attorney was having a hard time speaking plain English to a young and inexperienced Sun reporter. He was sugar coating. The sky did fall on Moser in this investment no matter how rosy a picture his attorney painted to the Sun. He lost everything. He owns nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!
All the undeveloped land was foreclosed on. The debt for the foreclosed land was about 17 million as the Sun article correctly indicated. There are 6 additional buildings that were foreclosed on. Cole Taylor was only ONE bank for this massive development. It was not the ONLY bank.
Another bank is ready to foreclose on other buildings shortly. One of the buildings has a tenant who has not paid his rent in 4 months. The other tenant in this same building has not paid its rent in 14 months. This building is 13,501 sq. ft. and is about to be foreclosed on. Any day now. I will tip the Sun when it happens as I am part of the loop with inside information.
Many of the tenants in the plaza have not paid rent in a long time. They will be evicted by the banks soon. The developer failed to evict them and get performing tenants which irritated Cole Taylor Bank.
One restaurant in the plaza with 7500 sq. ft. has openly stated that it will be closing down in 2 months. This restaurant is 4 months behind on its rent. Another restaurant which is 4 months behind has not made any announcement but looks on the verge of collapse. It occupies 8400 sq. ft.
Two buildings are completely empty. Two other buildings are half empty.
The people who spoke to the Sun did a lot of sugar coating. The last thing Moser's attorney wants to admit is that his client had a MAJOR FAILURE. But he did! Ask yourself what does Moser still owns after the banks foreclosed on his investment? Nothing! He was wiped out clean. That is what foreclose is!
PS. I did not spew any garbage. I gave the Sun a tip on May 8th to a story that they verified was true and wrote an article about 4 days later. The Sun is a soft newspaper and wrote a soft article. I am simply glad they wrote an article and intelligent people can read between the lines. Apparently, you do not have the ability to read between the lines. You would be wise never to invest in the stock market where everything is vague and gray.
Average citizen journalist, NICE JOB and thanks alot for taking the time to inform all of the Potluck readers. This econony is tough! How was the moderator's vacation we all hope it went fine and you returned fresh and fit as a fiddle.
TO:
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development foreclosed on by the Bank on May 14, 2009 3:56 AM
Unfortunately, this foreclosure is a symptom of how bad the problem really is. The problem is that we are in a depression by any measure. Even Obama is now saying multi-year "recession". Recessions don't last for years, depressions do.
*Private sector unemployment now stands at 15%
*China has stopped lending the US money
*GNP has contracted 5-6% in the last year
*Rail traffic has dropped off by 20%
*Container ships now sit at anchor as do thousands of rail cars and locomotives.
*Banks have $20 Trillion in bad debts left to eat
*ALT A adjustable mortgages are the bubble that is now beginning to pop, prime loan failures doubled in April.
*Deficit spending will double the National Debt of the USA, a 100% increase over the previous 200 years.
*The Feds have turned to printing money $2Trillion in April to pay the bills.
*Current burn rates on Social Security and Medicare allow 5 years until system bankruptcy.
*The USA is undergoing a massive reduction in the standard of living as we continue to replace private enterprise with Government and export key sectors of our private economy.
*Credit card and auto loan defaults are accelerating.
*Auto sales bubble went from 17 million units to the current 10 M pace, expected to settle around 12 M a year as the sustainable number. 30% of all dealers, tax revenue and employees will go away in the USA.
The good news? The stock market went up 30% based on corporate earning staying in the red? The value of companies that lose money went up?
Back to Seven Bridges and commercial
Business news outlets are reporting that something on the order of $500B in commercial real estate loans are coming due this year that are expected to be called by the lenders.
Seven Bridges is a preview of what the next 12-16 months are going to look like. It will be the commercial version of the sub-prime melt down.
Lets see, $500B divided by $50M equals 10,000 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
As to evicting the tenants, Moser Development guessed correctly that anyone that will pay the utilities and keep the space clean is better than an dirty cold empty store.
Expect to see a lot of them as consumer spending returns to its historic levels of mid to upper 60% of GNP. The credit card, no down payment, zero percent financing, home equity loan from bubble levels is OVER! From 72% to 65% equals 10% over supply of retail spaces, every tenth store empty.
Lets raise taxes and drive everyone out of their house and business!
"Apparently, you do not have the ability to read between the lines. You would be wise never to invest in the stock market where everything is vague and gray."
PPS: THIS is the kind of garbage I was talking about.
Ongoing issues in the economy make it so people lose their homes. When people lose their homes they replace trim, take appliances, and assure that they have the nicest things that they paid for when they moved in. At times neighbors feel it is their "duty" even their "right" to harass the neighbor who has lost their home. In fact the very people who are standing on some ficticious "moral high ground" are themselves guilty of a great many things. My own issues preclude me from putting too much information here, however, there is an absolute case of ENTITLITIS in our city. People feel they are entitled to information about others who they have no business attempting to gather. Further the very people who believe they wish others well in fact do not. When nosy neighbors with entitlitis begin punishing everyone around who are less fortunate than them they perpetuate an elitist attitude.
I for one am going to move on and begin anew. I wish all of those who have attempted to harm me due to their entitlitis that they get everything they deserve in life.
Business news outlets are reporting that something on the order of $500B in commercial real estate loans are coming due this year that are expected to be called by the lenders.
Seven Bridges is a preview of what the next 12-16 months are going to look like. It will be the commercial version of the sub-prime melt down.
I agree that that commercial version of the sub-prime melt down is on the way. The second largest mall developer in the USA that owns Oak Brook Mall also was foreclosed on by the banks.
The 50 million number I used was just to make a point. Seven Bridges is massive and inlucdes over 330 homes, six 6 story apartment/condo buildings, a 12 story condo building, Edwards Health Club, the Hockey Rink, the Signature Banquet Hall, and it goes on and on. It is easily worth over a billion dollars. Moser and his Parter the Harris Group appeared to have invested about 250 million of their own money over 22 years before they were foreclosed on. The rest of the billion or 2 was bank money or other investor money such as the folks who bought condos or homes.
There are at least 2 banks and possibly more involved. Cole Taylor Bank was the first to foreclose. I know a bank which owns another building is about to foreclose since one tenant has not paid rent in 4 months and the other 14 months. It is doubtful Moser/Harris were paying the mortgage on this building if they were not paying it on better buildings where tenants were more current.
Moser basically had loose standards. He was renting this space to weak tenants who were dumb enough to pay 26 dollars per sq. ft. plus 8 for CAM and REAL ESTATE. He really did not qualify them properly. Many seemed to run out of money before they could even open up. It seemed Moser was under pressure to fill the buildings up to keep the banks happy but in the end the low quality and financially weak tenants he signed leases with were just paper tigers who could not deliver.
It is not easy to afford 34 dollars per sq. ft. in gross rent in a town like Woodridge which is mostly poor to middle class.
The Sun article brought more confusion than clarity to the situation. The Moser Attorney was sugar coating a disastrous situation. One person who read the article at my health club stated to me only one buidling was forceclosed on according to his reading of the Sun Article so what is the big deal. I had to explain to him the Sun Reporter did not really grasp the gravity of the situation. And maybe he did not fully comprehend the article as it was a little vague.
Hopefully, the Naperville Sun will do another article and explain the situation a little better. The Moser Attorney knows what foreclosue means. He should have told the Sun Reporter the banks kicked us out of Seven Bridges and our entire 250 million investment somehow evaportated. We have little left. When the other banks foreclose we will have nothing left. The situaion is getting worse not better. For now he did a number on the Sun Readers through his sugar coating. Just like Moser/Harris danced around the banks for a while by signing up sub prime tenants who do not have the ability to pay any rent let alone astronomical rents.
Moser would be smart to let the next bank for example take the building with one tenant behind 14 months and another 4 months. It is better to take the hit now than later when more mortgage arrears accumulate each month. The quicker they foreclose the less he loses. He apparently also is upside down on this massive development. That means the value of the property declined to below the value of the mortgage. Even if he could afford to rescue this huge development with his other money, he may have chosen not to since in essence it is worthless.
I do not know if these banks can hunt down Moser's wealth elsewhere to meet his foreclose obligations. Let us hope his attorney was smart and incorporated this investment so they can not penetrate it and wipe him out personally. My guess would be that his attorney incorporated this project to limit his liability. Since he is only a half owner he may have only lost 125 million as the Harris Group may have lost the other half of the 250 million. Anyway that is the story as it is being told to me by numerous tenants and brokers involved with this development. The accuracy of my version depends on the accuracy of my informants. I have not reason to doubt any of my informants so far.
I think it would be better to use 500B divided by 250M equals 2,000 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
If the 500B factors in loans and mortgages, it would be better to say 500B divided by 1B equals 500 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
Usually when banks foreclose there is no equity left in the property. So it is all loans and mortgages by "default." But since banks required 25% in most of these commercial developments investors may have lost an additional 167B of equity that evaporated. I believe the 250M lost in Seven Bridges over the 22 years of investing in that massive project was the equity of Moser/Harris that materialized and suddenly evaporated.
It is similar to a margin call in the stock market. You use margin to grow your portfolio to incredible levels during a growth cycle. But if a vicious bear cycle comes like the one we had in 2000-2001 or the one we had in 2008-2009, margin will wipe you out.
Personally I was wiped out in the 2000-2001 catastrophe. But I learned my lesson and somehow I managed to come out ahead in the 2008-2009 market meltdown by selling frequently and ferociously and buying back when Warren Buffet said buy even though he did not exactly pick rock bottom. He was off by about 1000 Dow points.
You can sell stocks with the click of 2 buttons on your computer. In the stock market there is always a fool willing to buy what you are willing to sell at a high price. And sometimes there is a genius willing to buy what you are willing to sell at a low price. Of course you never know until you have hindsight if that person was a fool or genious. Or if you were a fool or genious. Selling real estate is much more complicated and complex. It is also a much longer process.
No matter how you slice it the real estate numbers appear to be very disturbing.
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This page contains a single entry by Chris Magee, moderator published on April 26, 2009 8:09 PM.
NAPERGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please God no.
NAPERGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Please God No."
Now that was funny.
What happened to Ayers on free speech night at Anderson's Books?
I was certain he would show up to encourage the faithful.
Forgot, no captive audience of gullible impressionable teenagers to sell snake oil to.
Maybe Anderson's can schedule a double header when Ayer's neighbor is in town and they can take turns trashing the US.
We really need to discuss the Big Fat Pensions and the 6% raises the police are demanding.
That is serious and will increase our real estate taxes until they become unbearable one day....or bankrupt the town and force it to reorganize under Chapter 9 according to Experienced.
Let me hear some solutions with no whining....please!!!!
No one has ever presented a solution.
Mine is to delay the retirement day for collection of benefits to 70 years old.
This is the same age that we civilians are entitled to full retirement pay under the Social Security System.
I am sure Sun Publications runs their blogs the same way for each, but I would like to attach the "rules" from a web site called bogleheads where mostly financial advice is discussed. The rules are good for all, and something I would like to see the Sun adopt. I'm sure Bogleheads is moderated full time, and probably not easily adopted by the Sun, but good advice for all.
______________________________________-
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Rep Biggert is again sponsoring the "hate crimes bill".
This effectively sets up a two tier legal system where gays have more protections and rights than non gays. If a woman is assaulted by a man, it is a lesser penalty than if a "gay person" is assaulted by anyone.
This goes right down the line including employment law; quotas for gay employees will be the outcome forced by the courts and will become a factor in all employment decisions including promotions and pay raises. How does one know if a candidate for a job is gay?
Also, religious organizations will now have their beliefs substituted with the Official Federal Religious Beliefs, this is an assault on religion of all types and the right to free association.
If the govt can substitute one belief, they can substitute all beliefs. This is the establishment of a state religion.
http://www.illinoisfamily.org/content/img/f34370/ifihate-crimesbiggert-flyer.pdf
Things have been rather dull in Naper World since the election. When this happens, I tend to go national.
How about those crazy Banana Republicans?
I think there should be a discussion about conspiracy theories and local government
Anonymous, about the blog rules suggestions, pretty much everything in there is something I've suggested at various times on this blog. I would encourage people to abide by those rules and I have done so. The only thing I cannot do is edit the posts. This is an all or nothing blog; either it is approved or it isn't.
Chris,
I once thought this is an all or nothing blog. I thought you could not edit.
But I once did not save a post and you found a sentence objectionable. I agreed that you remove it and you did. And then you successfully posted. I appreciated that.
Did you mean to say that you have the capability of editing but it goes against Sun Blog Policy?
BTW, I like the all or nothing blog rule you have. I think editing is inappropriate on a blog site.
As far as personal attacks you do permit them, but are against them.
Think about the phrase for a second.
You have the power not to permit them, but you do not exercise this power until the personal battle has escalated.
I stand by my belief that I always tackle an issue in City Hall and find myself under personal attack almost immediately. I almost never attack a blogger or even mention a blogger until I am personally attacked FIRST...which is very often. And bloggers have conceded I do not attack first. I am attacked because of my "writing style" which I am entitled too. It seems like the "writing style" bloggers refer to is my counter attacks which are only in retaliation to their personal attacks.
I believe a great reason I am attacked is I am calling for less benefits and no raises for now for City Employees.
They consider it personal and begin firig missiles. The reason they consider it personal is some of our bloggers have to be city employees and admitted that on a few unique occassions.
Once should have a right to suggest cuts to benefits of city employees if one feels his real estate tax is being impacted immensely.
I feel my real estate tax is being impacted greatly. Speaking of personal, sometimes when I complain about high taxes, I am told to get out of town.
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PS. This is for publication even though written to you, Moderator.
Yes, I have the ability to edit posts but I'm not supposed to. Once in a great while I will if someone asks me to but for the most part no. I don't want this thread to turn into another debate about blog policies. There's a lot going on in Naperville and the world so let's talk about something more interesting.
you just have to wonder how long this will last
I'm betting on local resturant's biz dropping off at least slightly
while stopping at green lights...
With all the DUI arresets how many end up with convictions? I thought the new law about convicted DUI offenders was to have a breathalizer installed on any and all vehicles the offender may drive. Are our judges enforcing this law? These machines cost quite a bit to rent and have monitored. You would think that would have been a deterrent to driving under the influence. I see a lot of judgements in the paper about cases being dis-missed, whats that all about? Do you think our streets are safe? The police are doing their jobs making traffic stops, but are the courts following through with the publics best interest and safety in mind? What do you think? Wouldn`t it be interesting for the local paper to do a report on this DUI problem we seem to have?
Check out the DUI stats in Wisconsin. Some are just apalling!
Very true. There are people with DUI totals in double figures in Wisconsin. My parents are from Wisconsin and when we drive around the area they're from, it seems like every intersection they point out as one where someone they went to high school with was killed in a DUI accident.
Wisconsinites right to drink and drive is just as sacred to them as Illinois' politicians right to be on the take. Some things just can't be changed...
If you get a DUI in Dupage and get the right "connected" lawyer, he will get you off with a wink and a nod if you give him the right amount of dough.
I know a man who drives a Bentley who got off on his 4th DUI. He even got his Bentley back that was confiscated.
The bottom line is you need the right attorney and about 3500 dollars if you are a first time offender.
If you are a 3rd or 4th time offender, make sure you have 15,000 to pay your right "connected" attorney and that will get you off.
Yes, the system in Dupage is corrupt and you can buy your way out of almost everything but MURDER. Don't MURDER and you will never serve TIME.....as long as you have a lot of green cash to give to your attorney.
What if anything he or she does with some of that cash you give them is something I can not answer. I honestly don't know. But winks and nods are going on between defense attorneys and judges. Have I ever seen the wink and nod system in action? Yes, I did once and witnessed the winks and nods being exchanged. They were blatant. I thought I was in Cook County but it was Dupage County.
Speaking of DUI's whatever happened to the NPD officer who was arrested and blew TWICE the limit?? Does anyone know the results of the court case?? We are interested to find out results! thankz
CNN says Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Spector is switching from Republican to Democrat. I believe that either gives the Dems a filibuster-proof majority or puts them one away.
Spector has been a Democrat for 20 years, at least now he is out of the way so they can run a conservative in PA. If the Republicans are lucky McCain will defect too.
Filibustering is old fashioned, the Dems are now attaching everything to Budget Bills so only 51 votes are required.
Snow and Collins didn't get their weapons systems canceled that are built in Maine in exchange for going along with the "Stimulus Bill", Spector got 6 million for one of his favorites.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
By Chris Magee, moderatorAuthor Profile Page on April 28, 2009 11:39 AM
CNN says Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Spector is switching from Republican to Democrat. I believe that either gives the Dems a filibuster-proof majority or puts them one away.
Chris,
I think the Democrats need one more, though it's looking increasingly likely that that one additional Senator is going to be Al Franken. We can probably now expect the Republicans to fight the Minnesota contest all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, if possible.
-JQP
If you count Franken, they have 60. Maybe the Franken thing will be resolved before the next election; we'll see. I do think the filibuster is still important. The Democrats used it a lot during Bush's term and I don't think the Republicans would shy away from it. It's the last protection from one party just steamrolling everything through without consulting the other party.
If it plays out this way look for the Republicans to put on a run for Lieberman. He is Indipendent, but caucuses with the Democrats and I believe is counted in the total to reach 60? Lieberman was critical toward Jeffords when he did it a few years ago and contemplated a switch at that time.
I've never really minded gridlock in congress. If any one group gets too powerful they could potentially make sweeping changes where the effectiveness can only be evaluated in hindsight. Neither party has shown to be very good at any large scale change.
I don't know that there's any benefit for Lieberman to turn Republican. With the Democrats stronger now than they have been in years, why would he want to leave and lose the influence? You abandon the party and lose your committee positions. Those are the perks of being in control in Congress.
Of course the question with Lieberman is who abandoned who(or whom)? When he lost his primary every democrat supported his opponent. When he won as an indipendant they dramatically clipped his wings and his power has been fading ever since. when he spoke at the Republican convention he was roundly criticized by the Dems. He may just do it for spite!
Spectraitor is not turning Dem --- he will run in the Dem primary for the next election.
This is different only in that he will not caucus with the Dems until then.
New issue:
Was anybody else offended at all with Mego's column on 4/22?
It was pretty clear that he called the folks who attended any TEA parties uninformed, unknowing, and racists.
What IS his problem?
By Anonymous on April 28, 2009 4:50 PM
New issue:
Was anybody else offended at all with Mego's column on 4/22?
It was pretty clear that he called the folks who attended any TEA parties uninformed, unknowing, and racists.
What IS his problem?
---------------------------
Truth is an absolute defense.
This is the song of the far left:
If you agree with us; you are smart, probably had your mind destroyed at an elite college or think you attended one.
If you disagree with us; you are dumb, uneducated, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, greedy and a white trash redneck or Uncle Tom.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Anonymous on April 28, 2009 4:50 PM
Mego's column on 4/22?
What IS his problem?
Chris,
Perhaps Lieberman, unlike so many of his colleagues, actually believes in something and the Obama agenda is not consistent with where Lieberman thinks we should go, or stay.
Spector was always left, but not far left, so apparently he is moving to his true home. Like Chaffee in RI he will probably lose to a farther left Democrat in the primary and disappear.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Chris Magee, moderatorAuthor Profile Page on April 28, 2009 2:32 PM
I don't know that there's any benefit for Lieberman to turn Republican. With the Democrats stronger now than they have been in years, why would he want to leave and lose the influence? You abandon the party and lose your committee positions. Those are the perks of being in control in Congress.
A Barrington High School student is charged with sexually assaulting two classmates and he is removed from the school system. Two Gregory Middle School students are charged with sexually assaulting a classmate and remain in not one Naperville school sytem but two. I guess I am wondering why does the Barrington school system work effectively in a similar incident and the Naperville districts are just simply not up to any kind of reasonable performance standard. In fact, Jeanette Clark is quoted as being concerned that the language of the new SD 204 policy is too harsh! Why do we seem to have the most incompetent people in positions of authority in SD 204? What is so elusive to SD 204 yet Barrington seems to have a good grasp on the discipline issue?
Maybe Lieberman does believe in something. I respect him because of his willingness to go against his party where he disagrees with them on subjects like Iraq even though he knows it won't make him popular. But I think from a practical standpoint he can be independent, caucus with the Democrats and still vote his conscience. There are a lot of Democrats who vote Republican on some issues and vice versa. For these types I'm not sure how much political affiliation means.
The difference between Barrington schools and the N'ville schools is like the difference between night and day. Enuff said,or does someone' want to sue me for $$$$$. You reap what you sow! mego my leggo
Chris,
Huh?
When was the last time you saw a Dem Senator vote with Republicans on any issue of either importance or partisanship?
Then, do the same comp for Republican Senators --- you will find it is pretty much a one-way street unless you use Lieberman.
to: By Anonymous on April 28, 2009 5:36 PM
So just to be clear ---- you believe anyone who believes that spending is spiraling out of control, that deficits are rising too quickly, that the current Presiden't agenda is too large for the times, that taxes should not be increased ---- that WE are racists, unknowing, unaware, etc?
I understand now! Your intolerant, mean little mind is unable to handle any opinions that aren't in total alignment with your dogma!
Heil, comrade!
The conservative Dems are in the House. There's a group called the Blue Dog Democrats who are conservative on issues like gun control and abortion. I don't follow national politics as closely as I used to so I'm not sure if there are any senators in the same class. I believe one of the Virginia senators was on the more conservative side. I consider Lieberman a Democrat. He just went independent because he lost the primary.
The cost figure of a DUI in DuPage county maybe more like $5000, first offense. If some has the facts and got by with less than 3000$ let us know. We think we have enough evidence to mount a legal challenge. We believe that the courts use same as cash cow,hence REPEATED multiple offenders are able to WALK. Take the case of NPD officer; tested at twice [2] the limit and played the system to walk away Scott Free. We need judicial review of the prosecutors and judges in Duplicios cty. Remember the 250 'mistakes' by judge in coach mike case?? What would happen to you if you committed 250 routine mistakes on a single job?? CONPA is still taking testimony or comments from the general population. Remember your kid or wife could be the next victim! CONPA
Chris,
It is a big "No" on the Senate. I agree on Lieberman --- he's a Dem, and he is one of my fav pols. He is old school and still understands that the country's good should always be put ahead of partisanship and dogma.
You know, Councilman Furstenau is getting really scuzzy. It appears from the filings in the case that he is trying to get a gag order so that the public cannot learn what was going on in the case. He forgets that all of the pleadings are available on line. This is from the City Motion to enforce the settlement:
"In late March, all the Defendants in this case believed that a settlement had been reached. However, weeks after the settlement was reached, Furstenau wanted to renege on the deal. Furstenau suddenly refused to settle the case unless the City agreed to new material terms. Now, for the first time, Furstenau insisted on terms that would gag non-party public officials from commenting on, what is unmistakably, issues of public significance to the Naperville community - namely all issues relating to this very controversial lawsuit.” City motion introduction.
The city's motion is backed by emails and letters attached to the pleading that substantiate their point of view that Councilman Furstenau is the one who changed the agreement just before it was to go to the City Council last week. It is also backed by a statement in the Councilman's motion that set out the terms of the agreement:
"The agreement reached by Mr. Cummins and Mr. Sotos included the following material terms: a dismissal with prejudice of all claims by the Plaintiff; Defendant would not pay damages to Plaintiff; a mutual release of all claims by all parties; a denial of any liability; each side to bear its own costs and attorneys’ fees and the issuance of a mutual statement to the press concerning the settlement." Furstenau motion paragraph 2.
If the Councilman has his way, no one from the city could comment on topics such as legal fees that the city incurred. This topic of course is one that has been discussed on this forum for weeks and one that the public would like to see addressed. But the Councilman's new version of the settlement will squelch that discussion. I thought the Councilman was for open government, but I guess he isn't.
More importantly, the Councilman's change of heart is costing the citizens of Naperville more attorney fees because the city's counsel has to now go into court and again argue the case. Hopefully the judge will sanction him severely.
TO:
By Experienced on April 30, 2009 10:58 PM
You know, Councilman Furstenau is getting really scuzzy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On the flip side, the City Attorney, former manager and several City Council personalities want the ability to keep trashing Furstenau over the suit after it's over.
Wasn't it the City Attorney who was cheering on the former city manager when he trashed Furstenau in his cowardly parting shot? The City Attorney is a player, yes stuff a sock in her mouth.
By Anonymous on May 1, 2009 10:13 AM
The City Attorney is a party to the suit. Furstenau is asking that even non-parties be silenced. How can we know about the attorney fees if they can't be discussed? He is trying to end public scrutiny of the money that he has cost the city in a losing effort.
Experienced,
Who is going to find out why the woman who attacked a NPD officer outside a bar kicking, screaming and punching was charged with a misdemeanor, and Furstenau who may have touched the officer was charged with a 15 year felony?
Where is the symmetry, I was really hoping this would go to trial in order to clarify what happened.
Either its over or its not? Who is to say if the City Attorney should be hauled up on Civil Rights violations for the disparity in the charges if they had a hand or vote in charging Furstenau?
Combine 1, Justice 0
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Experienced on May 1, 2009 11:44 AM
By Anonymous on May 1, 2009 10:13 AM
The City Attorney is a party to the suit. Furstenau is asking that even non-parties be silenced. How can we know about the attorney fees if they can't be discussed? He is trying to end public scrutiny of the money that he has cost the city in a losing effort.
If the Councilman has his way, no one from the city could comment on topics such as legal fees that the city incurred. This topic of course is one that has been discussed on this forum for weeks and one that the public would like to see addressed. But the Councilman's new version of the settlement will squelch that discussion. I thought the Councilman was for open government, but I guess he isn't.
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Experienced,
While I have not spoken to anyone recently, the legal feels that the City of Naperville are not the responsibility of DF and I do not believe they bother him as he was excluded from any decision regarding them. He had to recuse himself if you recall.
It appears our City is heading towards spending 2 million dollars as I long suspected on the Furstenau Case. It does not make Furstenau look silly. It makes the City look silly. DF apparently wants to bury the hatchet. They apparently do not. They want to continue bad mouthing him. Why should he agree to dismiss the lawsuit if he has a 5-50% chance of winning if they don't want to stop bad mouthing and bury the hatchet? Obviously, they intend on bad mouthing as much as possible prior to the next election. Party or non-party is the same. The parties to the lawsuit informs the non-party how and when to bad mouth him. It seems childish. Who wants people like Anonymous One, Keyboard Rambo and Fed Up with His Noise making noise and blowing their horns. Imagine, these guys might work for the city.
Furstenau spent no money on legal fees. His attorney took it on a contingency.
Speaking of legal fees is an embarrassement to the city.....not Fustenau. They are the ones in their infinite wisdom that spent 2,000,000 dollars to defend against a very petty "he said, she said" case that initially could have been resolved for a simply apology and later amounted to 113,000 dollars lawsuit.
The city did not get proper bids. They did not put caps. If you build a 113,000 dollar house, you retain a contractor who can build it for 113,000 or less. You don't hire a contractor who charges you 2,000,000 to build a 113,000 house. 1800% overruns in our society are not acceptable.
I am not surprised that DF wants a clause preventing the city officials from bad mouthing him. If they want to bad mouth him, they should have proceeded in court and gotten a positive verdict for $10,000,000. At that point they would have a right to bad mouth him with or without his permission. If they want to settle, there will be some restriction put on them.
The city apparently wants the rights earned by the Napergate Man after he won. He spoke against them. He told the truth. He held them accountable after his VICTORIES. He had a 3-0 rulling by the Illinois Appellate Court. He had a 2-1 ruling by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. He earned his right to speak up against City Officials for what they did to him. The city failed and did not earn its right to BAD MOUTH Mr. Furstenau. For Heaven's Sake, they are agreeing to a DISMISSAL....that does not translate to a victory no matter how you strecth the imagination.
The City of Naperville achieved no victories in the Furstenau Case. They wanted to settle as much as DF as they both feared losing. They both had bad cases. The city was bleeding cash. Attorney Sean Collins was also bleeding cash on behalf of DF. Enough was Enough for both sides.
Enough is Enough with this bad mouthing by City Officials. That is ridiculous immaturity. They need to move forward and not live in the past. They remind me of some of our silly and immature bloggers.
By Legal Fees will be over 2 million. on May 1, 2009 4:03 PM
You are not understanding my point. You, personally, have a lot of questions concerning the legal fees issue that you want answered. Am I correct?
Under the new language that the Councilman is trying to impose, the City will not be able to discuss that issue with the public. The public will never have their questions answered if the city can no longer discuss any part of the litigation with the public. You want to question caps; you want to question rates; you want to question specific work that the attorneys did; you want to question the number of attorneys and firms retained; you want to question why outside counsel was even retained. Under the councilman's attempted, unilatterally imposed provision, the city will not be permitted to answer ANY of your questions.
And, we haven't even discussed why he chose not to demand the language until the last minute when the matter was headed to council for approval. Can you explain to me why he waited so long to demand the change? Is that bargaining in good faith on his part? If you read the motions and the attachments, the matter was already to proceed to council on 4/8/09 without the gag order inclusion. The Councilman requested the delay so that it the terms would not be known until after the election. [Talk about lack of open government on his part.] Then he comes back and tries to change the terms on the Friday before the council was set to meet as the agenda packets were being prepared to be delivered for the April 21st meeting. There is no good faith on his part at all. No open government on his part at all.
If you and the public are satisfied not to have your questions answered on legal fees, then go ahead and back the gag order that was not negotiated. But, if you do, I don't want you to ever again question those fees if the City is not allowed to explain to you what happened. If you want answers and open government, then you should oppose the gag order. If the public is willing to move forward and not have their questions answered, then that's ok. If not, the public should be against the gag order.
I hope the Councilman get's severly sanctioned for his last minute antics that are driving up the fees even more.
Legal Fees wrote:
The city failed and did not earn its right to BAD MOUTH Mr. Furstenau. For Heaven's Sake, they are agreeing to a DISMISSAL....that does not translate to a victory no matter how you strecth the imagination.
You keep ignoring the fact that it is Mr. Furstenau suing the city, not the other say around. The city never stood to gain anything from this lawsuit. When you're the defendant in a lawsuit, you win by not losing.
-JQP
Since there was no court resolution I am against either side bashing the other side relentlessly and for no purpose.
As far as the legal fees, the firms used, why no caps were in place, I am with you 100%. I want openess and accountability.
DF should want the same.
I once spoke to him and he told me the legal fees of the city are not his responsibility. I agreed with him and still do.
But the City of Naperville can not pull another Napergate on us again. As you may or may not know, in the Napergate Cases, no fees were ever disclosed. City Officials either said they kept no records, had no records or lost the records.
Folklore believes they were buried with former Mayor Samuel Macrane as no one has ever been able to find them. Not even conservative Establishment opinion editor Tim West of the Naperville Sun could obtain them from City Officials. I believe that is the only time in his storied 36 years that Mr. West was every upset about anything city officials had ever done.
So I agree with you if this gag order is suppose to hide the legal fees. If it is simply to stop the bickering and dickering of "he said and she said", I am all for this gag order. At some point the hatchet needs to be buried.
The Naperville Sun ran an editorial after the Napergate Trials asking both parites to bury the hatchet. Both parties listened and the hatchet was buried. The Napergate Man never ran another Napergate ad and the City of Naperville stopped picking on him for his politicial views and affiliations. I would like to see another editorial by the Naperville Sun asking for a 2nd Burying of the Hatchet after the legal fees are disclosed.
I think we are mostly in agreement and I may have misunderstood some of what you were saying. My apologies!
By John Q. Public on May 1, 2009 6:42 PM
Legal Fees wrote:
You keep ignoring the fact that it is Mr. Furstenau suing the city, not the other say around. The city never stood to gain anything from this lawsuit. When you're the defendant in a lawsuit, you win by not losing.
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OJQP,
True, you win by not losing by allowing the plaintiff to dismiss the case or having the Judge dismiss the case.
But if you are making a deal for dismissal as the City of Naperville is, you are not winning and you are not losing. It is basically a tie of sorts...it is like kissing your sister on the cheek. It is like making up.
If City Officials truly feel like they are 100% right, they should have let DF proceed, lose and hammer him for the 10 million in legal fees the city may have encountered. Apparently the city did not feel confident in winning or recovering of legal fees. They did not want to deal with the wrath of the taxpayers for spending 10 million dollars of their money on a silly case that could have been settled initially for an apology and a European Style Kiss on the cheek from man to man.
In the Napergate Man cases, he felt confident, would not make any deals and took it all the way and won. When he was done, he sued the City of Naperville for his 74,000 in legal fees and a few other punitive damages. The 7th Ciruit Court ruled 2-1 the city was guilty and most pay up.
Since the City did not appeal to the US Supreme Court, I believe they paid up.
I suspect some deal was made after the 7th Cirucit Court of Appeal decision as we never heard details from either side. Prior to the deal the Napergate Man was disclosing everything about his legal battles. He hushed up after his settlement and switched to zoning issues that concerned subdivisions throughout Naperville.
So I guess gag orders are sometimes part of settlements.
However, I do not feel the legal fees that we taxpayers encouter should never be part of any gag order. I agree with Experienced on this issue.
Maybe the city has changed its tune after the Napergate Cases. In those cases they did not want anyone to know the legal fees. I assume because they lost and they knew they will be faulted.
In this case they want Napervillians to know DF cost them 2 million dollars of their tax money. They believe it will have a great impact on the next election. They believe the taxpayers will oust DF in the next election. They want to make sure he is never the next Mayor of this town.
I think DF should let them disclose the legal costs and blame the city for the massive legal costs as I am. It can be done. The knife slices both ways in the DF Case. The knife only sliced one way in the Napergate Case. Maybe he feels the city can spend more resources on the blame game since they have more manpower and money than he has. I really don't know and am strictly speculating.
Anyway, I see hypocrisy here. The City only wants the legal fees disclosed when they feel it will damage someone else.
When they thought it would hurt them in the Napergate Cases they did not want them disclosed. They went as far as losing them....not keeping records....misplacing them...burying them. No one ever saw them to the best of my knowledge. Not even Editor Tim West who demanded them.
Do you guys, Experienced and OJQP, feel or see a touch of hypocrisy. I know you are both in general pro city but I also know you at times can call it as it is and be FAIR!
Legal Fees,
Judges do not often order plaintiff's to pay the defenses legal costs when the plaintiff loses, so the city would be taking a huge gamble if it opted to force the process to proceed on that basis alone. In settling now, the city probably comes out a few million ahead of where it likely would be if the case proceeded, win or lose. So this is a good deal for the city.
It's also a smart move by DF right now, but only because his case is looking more and more like a loser. This current legal battle was started by him. He is getting nothing out of this settlement other than an end to an ongoing headache that he wouldn't have if he hadn't launched the suit in the first place.
-JQP
OJQP,
I agree that judges rarely order any side to pay the others legal fees. One reason is they themselves let the case proceed indicating it had merit. A judge can dismiss any case he feels has no merit before it ever goes to trial.
Yes, the city is saving millions of dollars by agreeing to a negotiated settlement. Any yes, DF and Sean Collins realize their case was weakening by the week. Of course, they blamed it on a very pro-police biased judge.
As far as who started the legal battle, it was not DF. It was the city for charging him. I think DF may have been emotional about seeing cars towed that should not be towed because signs were not posted as the council instructed the police. While I don't know and was not there, I do believe he touched the officer to make his point. Maybe he gently pushed him.
But attempting to overcharge him with a felony was OVERKILL. It p$ssed him off. A felony is very serious charge and can land one in jail for 15 years. No one deserves 15 years for touching, pushing or gently backhanding a cop to make a point. That is insane. How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat? Sh$t happens when people are emotional.
I don't think he should have been charged with even a misdemeanor. The Mayor, City Manager or Police Chief should have had a serious chat with him and warned him. If he did not heed the warning, then next time charge him with a misdemeanor.
I know the Naperville Police pretty well. They can be anal when enforcing the law. They can be selective when enforcing the law. They can even be discriminatory at times when enforcing the law. I can not read the minds of the NPD, but I honestly believe Mayor Pradel, Miller or Wehrli would not have been charged in similar circumstances. I believe DF feels the same way. So he felt discriminated against and dealt harshly with.
Keep in mind he did not touch the cop just for the hell of it. He touched him in whatever appropriate or inappropriate way because he was angry that his constituents cars were being towed. No one denies the city failed to put up signs. So there has to be some understanding.
The Boston guard Rondo and Bulls guard Hinrich probably did not mean to fight in that 6th game. They ended up pushing and shoving each other pretty badly. The league could have suspended them both. But they understood it was in the heat of the moment. The City of Naperville should have understoond the scuffle between DF and the police officer was in the heat of the moment. No charges were necessary. This is the cause of the lawsuit and what led to the lawsuit. If you are a basketball player you need to punch with a closed fist to get an ejection. If you are a council man or anyone else I think you need to also punch a cop with a closed fist to get a felony. Imagine a basketball player gets a one day suspension for punching a fellow basketball player. But if we punch a cop, we spend 15 years in jail. That just seems a bit much to me.
When you can not resovle petty matters like members of the same family, millions of dollars will be lost by the taxpayers. This was the case here....sadly.... It could have all been avoided. Both sides could have done much better. Because they did not the taxpayers took it up the WAZZZOOOOOOOOOOOO as usual!
Geeze can't you folks put this Furstenau thing to rest.
Isn't there more important things to worry about these days?
By dannosden on May 3, 2009 8:57 AM
Geeze can't you folks put this Furstenau thing to rest.
Isn't there more important things to worry about these days?
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Remember it is still unsettled and the outside legal attorneys are still creaming us which increases our taxes. We need to stop the milking of the Naperville Taxpayer by both sides. How long can we take it up the WAZZZZZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Wow.
Legal Fees will be over 2 Million at 4:52 AM stated the following:
"No one deserves 15 years for touching, pushing or gently backhanding a cop to make a point. That is insane. How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat?"
Really? You think it's perfectly acceptable to "gently backhand" a police officer to make a point? And that "touching" your spouse and "pushing" your children are acceptable?
Interesting. I wonder how you'd feel if someone did the same to you.
You don't push or "backhand" the police. That's not okay under any circumstance.
And you don't hit your spouse or throw around your kids.
Honestly.
How many times have we touched our spouses in a moment of heat? How many times have we pushed our kids in moments of heat? Sh$t happens when people are emotional.
Put me down as someone who has never touched my spouse or my kids in a moment of heat. It does seem to fill in some additional questions about some of the bloggers here though.
MISLEADING ARTICLE IN SUN LAST WEEK
Several weeks ago, AG Holder stated that "90% of the guns confiscated in Mexico come from the USA".
This means that large quantities of fully automatic military weapons were purchased in the US. The problem is they can't be purchased in the USA.
After Mr. Holder's propaganda was analyzed, it turns out that only 15% of the guns come from the USA.
However, it is a fact that 85% of the narcotics coming into the USA are allowed in by the FEDs through our wide open border and the cash is allowed out. The same gangs that traffic in humans, also traffic in narcotics, guns, extortion and large scale kidnapping in the USA.
The trick wording from the AG's office, then repeated by Pres. Obama and the Sun, is that 90% of the guns that are suspected as originating in the US are later verified as being of US origin, 15% of the total seized. Therefore, 85% of the guns are not originating in the USA.
Since thousands of tons of narcotics are smuggled in and out of Mexico every year, it's not hard to imagine that fully automatic military grade weapons are smuggled into Mexico from all over the world.
Perhaps, like the mail order companies; each shipment of Afghan opium, heroin and hash comes with 50 free AK47s in the shipping container as a bonus. Silencers are optional.
Where are the Naperville police when it comes to arresting bicycle riders? Bike rider are totally out of control and the majority fail to stop at red lights and stop signs, the go the wrong way on one way street, avoid signaling there intentions, fail to yield to vehicles, fail to stop for school buses and a complete disregard of motor vehicles around them. Time to initiate the arrest of law breaking bike riders. Remember, bicycle riders must follow the same laws as other vehicles on the road. Stop the selective enforcement and treat all vehicles on the road the same.
Legal Fees wrote:
Or may have merit. I don't know how the law works in Illinois, but in other states a judge can also issue a summary judgment for the plaintiff if he feels that the defendant doesn't have a case. Arguing that a plaintiff's case must have merit if the judge lets it proceed is a little like saying a defendant in a criminal case must be guilty if the police arrested him---or, for that matter, if the judge lets the case proceed to trial.
And:
It was DF who chose to continue the battle after he was acquitted of the criminal charges, though. He certainly did not have to do this. He would not be in the position he's in today fighting an uphill battle just to get back to the starting line if he hadn't chosen to launch this lawsuit.
And:
It doesn't matter why he touched the cop, he should not have been confronting him in the first place. A very good argument can be made that he obstructed a police officer from doing his duty, which is a crime. That he was not arrested on the spot may actually have been a sign of the deference the officer paid to him as a city councilman. You can argue that CM Wehrli or Mayor Pradel would not have been arrested at all, but how do you think the average citizen would have been dealt with in that situation? It's rather silly for Furstenau to think (if, in fact, he does) that his "rights" were violated because he wasn't shown the favoritism that another official might have been shown in the same situation.
-JQP
I also wish we could put the Furstenau thing behind us. Unfortunately, it seems as though Furstenau just wont let us.
Despite the fact that he claims to want to ensure transparency for the taxpayer, Furstenau seems to now want to hide the costs he brought on the city. Yes, the city could have settled early and not spent the money on legal fees. But what message does that send to all the other blowhards with ego problems who might think of filing suit in the future?
Also, I love JQPs "It's rather silly for Furstenau to think (if, in fact, he does) that his "rights" were violated because he wasn't shown the favoritism that another official might have been shown in the same situation." This really encapsulates very clearly what I have thought and what has been said here many times.
You have hit on why Furstenau will not take his mental exam! He "thinks" he is better than the law and those that would enforce it. Wehrli and Pradel would not have been treated differently, they are both smart enough to not put themselves in that position. Dick has made a federal lawsuit out of his ego and his lack of understanding that he is not always right. He thinks that the world is graced with his wisdom and can not understand it when the world goes in a different direction that his vision for it. Tasers, towing, cops are out to get me, staff is always wrong, etc. Now he wants to muddy the waters of government by gagging those that would speak out against him and his poor desision-making skills. All we are missing are the brownshirts and Dick growing a little square mustashe...
Big Fat
That was unconvincing and really desperate.
Now I am making an assumption that DF may have touched a cop appropriately or inappropriately and simply stating he should not be charged with a FELONY that can land one in jail for 15 years. I was not there and do not know if he even touched a cop. It is just an assumption on my part.
Now if a cop was pushing your child around inappropriately because he was mouthing off, you may also touch the officer and tell him to stop. Should you be jailed for 15 years because you interfered with a cop doing his so called "duties."
Not to long I watched a cop on TV lasering a lady repeatedly and often even though she posed no threat to him. She had simply been drinking and may have said a word or two. She was wearing a skirt and high heels and did not look like the fighting type....could hardly keep her balance without being lasered. Everytime he lasered her she fell down and banged her head on her car. If someone interfered and told him to cool it before he lasers her to death, should he be jailed for 15 years because he may have touched the cop to get him to come to his senses.
And I am 100% certain Mayor Pradel would not have been arrested if he touched a cop and said, "My son you can not be towing cars when your department failed to post the proper signs and notices."
The city used a double standard on DF. He had a right to sue. Unfortuantely, he needed a little more proof to win.
The city used a double standard on the Napergate Man that was later exposed in an unbelievable way as his case proceeded from courtroom to courtroom. He had confiscated more fake IDs than all other liquor establishments COMBINED times a multiple of 5 or 6. And yet they went after his jugular to let him pay for his politics.
We know how the courts ruled because the city used double standards and violated the EQUAL RIGHTS CLAUSE or whatever clause of the constitution. I am not a constitutional law expert.
The city has no right to treat DF any differently than any other citizen or council members just because they don't like his politics. DF is always criticising the PD in almost every council session due to its wasteful spending. They took revenge on him and tried to incarcerate him for 15 years. They want to continue receiving their Big Fat Pensions and do not want to be questioned.
DF was just unlucky and did not have the videotapes needed to prove his case. The Napergate Man was documenting and videotaping knowing the City was up to no good. Everyone should know you can't beat a police department or City Hall if you don't have the proof. DF simply did not have the proof.
The Napergate Man case should have taught our City Officials you can not have double standards. Since Mayor Pradel would never have been arrested for touching a cop and telling him what you are doing is inappropriate, logic follows that DF should also never have been arrested.
If the city played by the rules, we would have 2 million dollars in our city coffers instead of in outside law firms coffers. If they played by the rules in the NGM case we would have 10 million plus 2 million dollars in our coffers. That is 12 million and more than the 11.5 million deficit we had last year that resulted in lay-offs for many city employees and other cuts throughout the city.
Discrimination is not good. Sometimes the City of Naperville consciously or subconsciously discriminates. Most police officers know that. The practice should be stopped immediately if it has not been already stopped.
Legal Fees wrote:
1. Unfortunately for DF's case, there is no evidence to back up your assertion that Mayor Pradel or another councilman would have been treated differently, however likely that might be.
2. Even if it could be established that Mayor Pradel, et. al., would have been treated differently, DF does not have a right to demand the same preferential treatment. We all have a constitutional guarantee to equal protection of the law; no one has a constitutional claim on unequal, preferential protection.
3. Finally, DF likely was accorded more respect than the Napergate Man or any other average citizen would have received. If you don't believe me, try walking up to a cop while he's writing a ticket or arresting a bar patron and make incidental contact with him while you try to talk him out of his course of action. See where it gets you. Heck, see where it gets you even if you absolutely do not make contact.
-JQP
Jphn Q. Public,
All your points are very good. All my points in my opinion are also very good.
We will never know the truth and nothing but the truth.
For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them.
I was told if you have an issue with a cop don't fight him on the street....he always wins. Fight him in court where you have a fighting chance. That is what I practice. I am sure DF will be practicing the same philosophy in the future.
By mark on May 4, 2009 8:00 AM
Wow.
Legal Fees will be over 2 Million at 4:52 AM stated the following:
And you don't hit your spouse or throw around your kids.
Honestly.
========================================================================================================================================
Mark,
I said touch my spouse and push my kids.
You converted it to hit your spouse and throw around your kids.
Your play with semantics is reprenhensible.
I believe most people in the world do at times touch or push if they are trying to make a point during a heated family dispute. Sh$t happens in most families and people get over it. Sometimes that is what it takes to instill some discipline.
I have been touched and touched. I have been pushed and pushed. If my daughter or son want to go out at 1am to smoke pot or drink and they were not listening, you can be assured I pushed them right into their bedrooms and threw them on their beds.
In my opinion letting them go drink or smoke pot when they are minors is irresponsible parenting. I may push them when necessary but I also may have saved their lives. Kids need to be shown who the boss is. If you are a parent they will test you. If you show weakness, they will ride you and self-destruct themselves in the process.
I will continue pushing my kids if they think I am going to let them succumb to the peer pressure that resonates throughout Naperville.
Let your kids go drinking if you like, Mark. But if the Naperville Police call you to tell you your kids are in jail or seriously injured, I bet you would wish you pushed them as I pushed my kids.
"For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them."
*****************************************************************
Well Legal Fees, unless this is one of your self professed lies to throw the group off your track, we now understand where your cop-hating originates.
That you would dare to use Drew Peterson as a poster boy for police is an extreme insult to the thousands of officers around this country hoping for his arrest and conviction.
You continually underestimate their workload, job stress and portray them as lazy liars, with the occasional "praise for a job well done" such as the liquor store robbery, which then comes off as patronizing and fake. (And here is a hint about the written word, when you call them BRAVE officers in the same sentence in which you are criticizing them, the brave becomes a sarcastic remark to the reader, whether you meant it that way or not.)
So now we know your opinion of the police department, what did the fire department do to earn your disdain?
TO:
By Denny Suckow on May 4, 2009 1:06 PM
Denny,
Why was DF charged with a 15 year felony and the woman that kicked, punched and fought with the police in the same downtown in front of a bar at night was only charged with a misdemeanor?
I would like to know, the fact that City Officials spent millions of dollars defending their attempt to railroad Furstenau potentially into prison is what disgusts me.
With Senger gone, there are only Kruase and Furstenau left to give voice to the homeowners.
With the City built out and the housing market in collapse; hopefully the developers will take themselves and their contributions to a green-field far away from Naperville and fund their politics.
This is the core issue.
Homeland Security Dictionary download
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/05/homeland-pulled-back-extremism-dictionary/
Apparently the signers of the Constitution that believed in:
*limited-small government
*Constitutional limits on power
*and Federalism aka power is bottom up, not top down from the leader
would make the terrorist suspects list.
Rep Biggert's anti-free-speech thought-control bill will add Christians that read the Bible to this list.
If you favor what many believe to be the murder of 50 million non-persons you are not an extremist. If you question the murder of non-persons than you are an extremist.
Hate =
anti abortion
anti gay marriage
own a bible and a gun
served in the military and go to church
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(U) rightwing
extremism
(U//FOUO) A movement of rightwing groups or individuals
who can be broadly divided into those who are primarily
hate-oriented, and those who are mainly antigovernment and
reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority.
This term also may refer to rightwing extremist movements
that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to
abortion or immigration.
(also known as far right, extreme right)
Sorry to jump into the middle of this fray but another news item caught my interest this morning that we might be better off discussing...
According to the Crains ComEd and actually lowered electric rates by 7.5% to their utility customers. What this means is that the new, lower rate will now be $33.23 per megawatt hour. Now this only applies to about 1/3 of the total power that ComEd purchases, though the new rate for this 1/3 is reported to be about one half of the old rate. Considering the current economy everyone could benefit from lower utility costs.
Utility rates have fallen hard across the board in the last year. Considering that we in Naperville are currently paying $60.49 per megawatt hour I am surprised that no one is screaming bloody murder at why such an enormous difference between the two rates? What is the Illinois Power Agency doing for electric customers in Naperville? Why have our rates not been adjusted?
Was anybody else offended at all with Mego's column on 4/22?
It was pretty clear that he called the folks who attended any TEA parties uninformed, unknowing, and racists.
What IS his problem?
Anonynmous, I have always enjoyed Bill Mego's comments but this one offened me also. It's like he is saying I'm a journalist who can come and go where I want because it's the nature of my job. Where were all the protesters? Well Bill we were at work trying to scrape up some cash so we might pay our sky high taxes! You know like those driven by salaries which are clearly out of control like the teachers and cops. If you thought about this in more depth you might see that we are only fed up with these crazy taxes and we are not uninfirmed, unknowing and racist but perhaps you are.
By denny on May 5, 2009 2:20 PM
Was anybody else offended at all with Mego's column on 4/22?
It was pretty clear that he called the folks who attended any TEA parties uninformed, unknowing, and racists.
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Truth is still an absolute defense.
By Anonymous on May 5, 2009 4:39 AM
"For the most part I stay as far away as possible from all cops. I know they are tinder boxes ready to explode. Plus they are armed with guns, tasers and plenty of ammunition.
They have yelled at me and touched me on occassion and I have always ignored them."
*****************************************************************
Well Legal Fees, unless this is one of your self professed lies to throw the group off your track, we now understand where your cop-hating originates.
So now we know your opinion of the police department, what did the fire department do to earn your disdain?
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I have never met a Naperville Fire Fighter. I have also called for their salaries and pensions to be reduced equally to the Naperville Police Officers. There are no lies or hate involved.
For you to try to portray my concern for high taxes as being hateful towards police is despicable. It shows how low you and your ilk will go to defend these Big Fat Pensions that the taxapyers can ill afford anymore.
Basically, I was making a point that you don't argue with a police officer on the street as DF did. It is nice that you twist my thoughts. I think he should have stayed away from the cop even though his intentions were good, but I also think charging him with a felony that could land him 15 years in jail is OVERKILL. It cost us taxpayers nearly 2 million dollars and the clock is still running on our legal fees as the case remains in limbo.
I am surprised all my points go over your head and now you are calling me a cop hater. You guys will do anything to destroy the credibility of a person who wants to control government waste and reduce taxes. Anyone can see through your ongoing nonsense.
You probably are from the same group who called the Napergate Man a cop hater because he stood up for his constitutional rights. What's new? You might as well get a job picking up the recyclables along the curbs since you love to recycle. At least you would not be recycling the garbage you recycle on this blog stie.
By Legal Fees will be over 2 million. on May 5, 2009 4:30 PM
Basically, I was making a point that you don't argue with a police officer on the street as DF did. It is nice that you twist my thoughts. I think he should have stayed away from the cop even though his intentions were good, but I also think charging him with a felony that could land him 15 years in jail is OVERKILL.
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First, did the City charge the Councilman or did the city defer to the States Attorney to charge the councilman after due consideration? Was the charge to the Councilman backed by a court order in support thereof?
Second, is your unbridled support of the Councilman due to the fact that you have personal experience in a similar situation?
Good Morning Moderator,
I noticed the last post was 6:15pm. Has it been a real slow day or are you taking an evening off from blogging. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods and you are OK....and free from the swine flu.
I have had 2 bouts with food poisoning the last 2 months and was knocked out 2 evenings. I hope you are not ill and it is just a slow day due to the beautiful weather.
I was out ealier today playing softball with the kids and it was just gorgeous.
I'm off this week so other people are moderating. I'll check it occasionally but don't expect it to be updated as frequently as usual this week. I'm back in the office on Monday.
Good to hear from you Moderator.
Thanks for responding so quickly.
Glad to know you were not stricken by the swine flu.
Enjoy your time off.
I think we all need a week off from this blog site.
Maybe you should consider closing it down 2 weeks each year.
At least tempers will cool down and maybe we can get a fresh start.
Or maybe put the comments into something like a Twitter format to nip some of the excessive wind bagging that goes on...
I learn more from a short, one paragraph post most of the time... USA Today style. The posts that drone on and on... well I don't even bother to scan them anymore.... wasted time, effort, and words IMO.
By Anonymous on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM
Or maybe put the comments into something like a Twitter format to nip some of the excessive wind bagging that goes on...
I learn more from a short, one paragraph post most of the time... USA Today style. The posts that drone on and on... well I don't even bother to scan them anymore.... wasted time, effort, and words IMO.
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The problem with your style is no one knows what you are talking about or even who you are addressing. No one knows what post you are referring to. It seems like reading your post was wasted time, effort and words IMO. I say stick with the USA Today. At least they know what they are talking about.
Thank-God for DF and stick'in to his story. That must really hack you combiners off!! Ha ha ah;] don't worry like the other poster blogged,your town is being exposed>: Why won't any of you talk about the dui sarge or the propensity of NPD to lie/fabricate/custom-tailor reports? Why was the 'lady' who was violent and under-influence CHARGED only with a minor,while DF was felony? Remember even the dupage office DECIDED not to SUPPORT the felony charge? He was on city charges hence the SET UP, are you guys really that dense?Million -plus and you mr/ms taxpayer end up with an empty bag of baloney. How long will this go on?? Arrested for stealing 4 dollars worth of signs. pastors,priest,business people,elected officials please push for REMEDIATION process at NPD it works to help everyone-police-citizens-court burdens,lowers legal fees-- this sign theft and the pink I-pod case could have gone there,perhaps. What if DF had asked for REMEDIATION of 'problem' mis-understanding.
Why don't we talk about serious things like the problems in Pakistan, where the US is about to get embroiled in. This could make Iraq look tame in comparison. Remember, the bad guys are just 100 miles from the center of government with designs on overthrowing the government, and getting hadns on about 50 nukes. Doesn't anyone care about this?
Is it just me or does it seem a bit fishy the article on Sgt Brantner-Smith retiring? Ya, they say to work with her husband but??? I mean 1 1/2 yrs from 30 yrs? And doesn't it say something that a male under her got Cmdr? I know the times back then discriminated even more but, & maybe she didn't want that position but still. How many female officers do they have above sgt?
Cookie Roberts was on Craig Ferguson today & asked him what percentage of white males are their in the US? 36%! She also commented she asked others when they became the minority & they told her they never were the majority...they just acted like it. I'm not trying to devalue men but it is very interesting statistics.
To International issues facing US tapayers on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM--
Maybe it's because the whole Pakistan thing is so depressing. To have US troops fighting extremists in 2 foreign countries already and now have a 3rd be a possibility? As an American I am really sick of having my country police the world largely by itself. Nukes in the hands of the Taliban are a threat to all western countries, not just the US. Where's the EU and other developed nations in all of this? Largely staying out of it and letting the US take responsibility as usual.
Right now there are no plans to send US troops into Pakistan and I would like to see it stay that way but I fear it won't. If the nukes are the main concern, perhaps the US can go in and move the arsenal out if this is possible? Or destroy them if it looks like they will fall into Taliban hands. But if the Pakistanis don't care that the Taliban takes over enough to fight them, no other country should do it for them. We all get the government we deserve. And if foreign forces are asked to help, it should be a multi-nation effort--EU, this means you--to send the message that the developed world won't tolerate extremism, just not the US.
Here is a story that is not being reported on in the local media and should be.
The huge Seven Bridges 400 acre development that was started by the Moser Group of Naperville and the Harris Group in a joint venture in 1987 was foreclosed on last Thursday by the banks.
Moser and the Harris Group invested over 250 million in this project and developed it for 22 years. It was about 90% complete. All for nothing. Imagine that. They were most likely upside down and the banks refused to extend or renew the loans and forced a foreclosure. A beautiful Life Style Plaza equal or larger in size to our entire downtown going down the tubes in a split second after 22 years of hard work and tons of money. Truly a sad story. My heart goes out to the Moser family.
The Mosers literally developed every subdivison in Naperville. At one time their wealth was believed to be over 750 million. It seems like the possibility exists that they overleveraged themselves or their company and lost a substantial amount of their wealth if not all of it.
I am a little surprised this kind of news is not reported in the Naperville Sun.
To What?
Speaking from a lot of experience, if there is one thing the Europeans recognize it's a free lunch.
Expect no help from the W. European countries if they can dump the political, human and economic costs off on the USA.
What the W. European politicians do want, and have been successful at achieving, is to dominate the US political, economic and military positions through various treaties and organizations.
Europe (UK is the exception along with the Danes) will allow the US to eat terrorist attacks all day long if it costs them nothing. The US will always be the first target unless we decide to sell out our allies around the globe. Chavez good, Columbia bad; allow Islamists to take over all of the countries in the Middle East etc....
Islamists are the guys that execute widows for working to feed their kids.
The W. Europeans have systematically colonized themselves with Muslim minorities that have much higher birth rates and have no intention of becoming liberal post Christian W. Europeans who they see as culturally and morally inferior; which is hard to argue with. This is still being done for cheap labor.
What the Europeans do have is police states, apparently this is the vision for our future.
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By what the? on May 8, 2009 2:23 PM
And if foreign forces are asked to help, it should be a multi-nation effort--EU, this means you--to send the message that the developed world won't tolerate extremism, just not the US.
OWVU, I have been off work all week but I don't see a post on Peterson from you. Perhaps resubmit it.
OWVU and Anonymous,
Both Iraq and, especially, Afghanistan have been multi-national efforts from the start. More than a dozen European countries currently have troops in Afghanistan, including both France and Germany.
-JQP
The other nations' commitments to Afghanistan are misleading if you look at numbers. Many of them only contributed troops on the understanding that they would not be fighting. They are doing rebuilding work, but they leave it to the Americans to do the fighting. It's not exactly an even commitment.
Chris,
My point was that the international community in general, and the Europeans in particular, have not been standing idly by, despite what you might hear in other quarters. It is true that many of the coalition countries' troops are there in a support capacity, but there are also many that ARE participating actively in the fighting. And even those that are only in support roles are doing important work in a dangerous environment; their presence means that we don't have to send even more American troops.
-JQP
Moderator Chris,
Just curious why a potential 250 million dollar foreclosure in the Seven Bridges Development by Moser Development and his partner is not worthy of a story in the Naperville Sun.
The Mosers are a very famous family in Naperville. Possibly the richest and one time most successful. They had their hand in the development of almost every subdivision in Naperville. They use to own Moser Lumber which provided most of the building material for the growth until Home Depot and Loews chipped away at the business gradually.
Is the Naperville Sun really that short handed that they can not cover a big story of this significance???
One phone call to the bank and one phone call to Moser Enterprises with some comment and reactons and we can have an interesting story. I am sure I am not the only one in town that would be interested in this story and what led to this massive failure of a 400 acre develpment in the the making for 22 years. So much has been written about their successes in the Naperville Sun the last 40 years. Is it taboo for the Naperville Sun to write a story about a failure the Mosers had???
I believe at one time they had some ownership in the Naperville Sun....not 100% sure. I do not believe they have any ownership currently.
I haven't been in the office in a week so I am out of the loop. If what you say about the Moser development is true it seems like something we will write about. There may be someone working on it now for all I know.
Moderator Chris,
I talked to 2 of the tenants who confirmed it. Charlie Cabana and Tilted Kilt.
I even called the sign on the vacant stores and talked to the broker who also confirmed it.
He told me he was no longer the broker due to the foreclosure a week ago Thursday and can no longer discuss or negotiate any matter pertaining to Seven Bridges. But he did CONFIRM it was forcclosed on.
Most people I spoke to found it almost impossible to believe due to Moser's extreme wealth and success of the past. I believe he had a partner known as Harris Group which I know very little about unless they are affiliated with the Harris Bank in Naperville.
As a frequent visitor to this Life Stlye Development, it seemed like an astonishing success after 22 years of hard work. In my opinion it was laid out real nice with a Main Street and the right mix of tenants. In some ways it was competing with downtown Naperville as it had numerous restaurants, bars, and lounges.
They also had Edward Health Fitness, The 3 Rink 7 Bridges Hockey Arena, The Huge Cinema Complex, Buffalo Wild Wings, Krispy Kreme, the Signature Banquent Hall, the six 6-story buildings, the 12 story building and the list goes on. A huge hotel may have been halted before ground was broken.
The rents in the Plaza were 25-27 dollars per square foot. The CAM and Real Estate Tax were another 8 dollars per sq. ft. My understanding was due to the economic downtown many tenants had fallen months behind on their rent. If the tenants can not pay the landlord, the landlord can not make his mortgage payments to the bank. Thus the bank has no choice but to foreclose.
Keep in mind banks are not loaning money like 5 years ago. Also banks are not renewing old loans. The decrease in value of the property was another contributing factor to the foreclosure as the bank did not feel the mortgage was properly collaterized. The loans were based on the old appraised valuations that were much higher than the current valuations. Lower valuations make it feasible the property became upside down in comparison to the mortgage value.
I don't think Moser Development will issue a press release saying the banks foreclosed on us. It is unwelcome and embarassing news. They probably don't want anyone to know. They will not call the Naperville Sun. You will have to call them and hope they do not say, "no comment."
Thus your only source until you dig a little deeper is this one lonely Citizen Journalist.
IMHO the central questions in Afghanistan are:
In a country with 75% to 80% unemployment, why don't we pay them to do the fighting?
Why are the current Afghan police and military forces not getting paid for months? Does all of the foreign aid we send end up in Switzerland?
Why do the Afghan Government and the Allies allow the open and unlimited cultivation of Opium poppies which funds the Taliban and Al Queda? Does it also fund Afghan, European and American politicians?
Stories I've read about the situation in Afghanistan suggest it is a lot more complicated than it may seem. As you noted, the unemployment rate is out of hand and many if not most of the "Taliban" fighters are just people who are fighting for money, not those who believe in the ideology. If they had jobs that paid better than fighting for the Taliban, they wouldn't fight, but creating jobs is hard. Growing poppies is one of the few things that pays more than fighting for the Taliban, and when coalition forces burn their fields that takes away that option. Plus you have a situation like Vietnam where fighters go out and make attacks, then return to their villages and look just like anyone else. Our troops don't know for sure who's fighting against them, and any time they kill the wrong person by mistake it hurts the effort more. The Afghan government is massively corrupt. You ask where the aid goes - corruption eats up a lot of it. Corruption is endemic in most of the nations in the world and is always especially bad in poor nations with no history of stable democratic government. The top American general on the scene is on record saying we can never win with just the military, and he is correct. It's a really tough situation with no easy answers. One thing I know is that as long as the Taliban fighters can move back and forth across the Pakistani border there's no way to ever stop them.
This week is National Police Week! I thank all the officers who give more than can ever be measured or paid back in any way. We are lucky to have you take care of us and provide a lovely community.
And this is only 1 citizen's opinion which is probably not worth anything, but I didn't find Chief Dial's point of 'making mistakes and learning from them' appropriate in his most recent piece reflecting on the Month of May, in particular National Police Week. You are right; National Police Week should be about honoring the fine officers of Naperville, so do just that. This is not the time or place to bring up they make mistakes. We all know that. Why would we expect them to be anything other than human? Was he suggesting that the officers who died of traffic accidents were all due to their own fault and this is why additional training is needed? How sad to point that out even if it was indeed the case. Somehow I don't think it was just due to officer error. The majority of the emphasis for National Police Week was written on fallen officers, and while I agree they should be honored, he just lightly mentioned "celebrate the great things that the law enforcement community excels in." Why not tell us! Why not have your piece show some stats on what the officers of your department have done in the last year that many of us may have no awareness of. We may appreciate them even more & those who do not might begin to. Somehow I don't think I, nor the public, really need to know the age span AND avg age of those who died. Not like that is something I'm going to be remembering and telling others, even for some bar trivia. And no I don't frequent bars, just making a point. We do however need to know how much crime has been taken care of in the community. Perhaps you won't have people thinking your officers are overpaid then!
Chief Dial mentioned Sgt. Brantner Smith retiring just saying she had varies duties in 28 yrs. Man, if that is all you can say, I'd be glad to retire from your dept. There is nothing else you can say about her but wish her well. You can't provide any statistics on all she has done?! Show how proud you are of her to the community who may not know what she has all done. It reads like a bare minimum generic recommendation. I know he may have done more at some retirement dinner or something, but the community needs to hear it also. Blend it all together with National Police Week and the Awards rather than have it read like a schedule of events which can be on the paper's calendar. Again, this is just one opinion which is worth absolutely nothing of course. I just read it and felt like I was more passionately proud of the officers than how the article read.
Hey mulithandle blogger - Did you read the article in today's Sun? Hahahahaha... Oh lordy, the sky is a fallin...Bunch of hyped up nonsense for the sake of spewing garbage on a blog site.
"Foreclosure won't affect Seven Bridges business."
My other concern is that the US cannot afford to be world policeman, we doubled our handouts to mostly corrupt governments as if we still are lording over the world with a surplus budget. We look more like ancient Roman Empire every day. The more we get into debt the more likely we will have to do the bidding of China and other countries carrying our debt. We already are in this position. Now the question is "what are we going to do to get out of this trend?". Spend more and give up more freedom?
By Anonymous on May 12, 2009 8:37 AM
Hey mulithandle blogger - Did you read the article in today's Sun? Hahahahaha... Oh lordy, the sky is a fallin...Bunch of hyped up nonsense for the sake of spewing garbage on a blog site.
"Foreclosure won't affect Seven Bridges business."
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Hey Buddy,
I never said the sky is falling. I stated Moser lost all his money that he put in the 7 Bridges investment because of this foreclosure. Apparently the Sun was able to confirm my news tip was accurate. Without my tip, they would have never known about the story. It happened April 15 and they were wrote about it on May 12 after I spilled the beans. At least we know the Sun treats us as Citizen Journalists and takes those of us who are credible seriously. I am very pleased with the Sun. Doing an article late is better than never doing an article.
If you own $50 million of commercial property and the bank forecloses on you, you lose your entire investment to the bank. Moser lost his entire investment in Seven Bridges. His attorney was having a hard time speaking plain English to a young and inexperienced Sun reporter. He was sugar coating. The sky did fall on Moser in this investment no matter how rosy a picture his attorney painted to the Sun. He lost everything. He owns nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!
All the undeveloped land was foreclosed on. The debt for the foreclosed land was about 17 million as the Sun article correctly indicated. There are 6 additional buildings that were foreclosed on. Cole Taylor was only ONE bank for this massive development. It was not the ONLY bank.
Another bank is ready to foreclose on other buildings shortly. One of the buildings has a tenant who has not paid his rent in 4 months. The other tenant in this same building has not paid its rent in 14 months. This building is 13,501 sq. ft. and is about to be foreclosed on. Any day now. I will tip the Sun when it happens as I am part of the loop with inside information.
Many of the tenants in the plaza have not paid rent in a long time. They will be evicted by the banks soon. The developer failed to evict them and get performing tenants which irritated Cole Taylor Bank.
One restaurant in the plaza with 7500 sq. ft. has openly stated that it will be closing down in 2 months. This restaurant is 4 months behind on its rent. Another restaurant which is 4 months behind has not made any announcement but looks on the verge of collapse. It occupies 8400 sq. ft.
Two buildings are completely empty. Two other buildings are half empty.
The people who spoke to the Sun did a lot of sugar coating. The last thing Moser's attorney wants to admit is that his client had a MAJOR FAILURE. But he did! Ask yourself what does Moser still owns after the banks foreclosed on his investment? Nothing! He was wiped out clean. That is what foreclose is!
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PS. I did not spew any garbage. I gave the Sun a tip on May 8th to a story that they verified was true and wrote an article about 4 days later. The Sun is a soft newspaper and wrote a soft article. I am simply glad they wrote an article and intelligent people can read between the lines. Apparently, you do not have the ability to read between the lines. You would be wise never to invest in the stock market where everything is vague and gray.
Average citizen journalist, NICE JOB and thanks alot for taking the time to inform all of the Potluck readers. This econony is tough! How was the moderator's vacation we all hope it went fine and you returned fresh and fit as a fiddle.
TO:
By Moser's Seven Bridges Development foreclosed on by the Bank on May 14, 2009 3:56 AM
Unfortunately, this foreclosure is a symptom of how bad the problem really is. The problem is that we are in a depression by any measure. Even Obama is now saying multi-year "recession". Recessions don't last for years, depressions do.
*Private sector unemployment now stands at 15%
*China has stopped lending the US money
*GNP has contracted 5-6% in the last year
*Rail traffic has dropped off by 20%
*Container ships now sit at anchor as do thousands of rail cars and locomotives.
*Banks have $20 Trillion in bad debts left to eat
*ALT A adjustable mortgages are the bubble that is now beginning to pop, prime loan failures doubled in April.
*Deficit spending will double the National Debt of the USA, a 100% increase over the previous 200 years.
*The Feds have turned to printing money $2Trillion in April to pay the bills.
*Current burn rates on Social Security and Medicare allow 5 years until system bankruptcy.
*The USA is undergoing a massive reduction in the standard of living as we continue to replace private enterprise with Government and export key sectors of our private economy.
*Credit card and auto loan defaults are accelerating.
*Auto sales bubble went from 17 million units to the current 10 M pace, expected to settle around 12 M a year as the sustainable number. 30% of all dealers, tax revenue and employees will go away in the USA.
The good news? The stock market went up 30% based on corporate earning staying in the red? The value of companies that lose money went up?
Back to Seven Bridges and commercial
Business news outlets are reporting that something on the order of $500B in commercial real estate loans are coming due this year that are expected to be called by the lenders.
Seven Bridges is a preview of what the next 12-16 months are going to look like. It will be the commercial version of the sub-prime melt down.
Lets see, $500B divided by $50M equals 10,000 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
As to evicting the tenants, Moser Development guessed correctly that anyone that will pay the utilities and keep the space clean is better than an dirty cold empty store.
Expect to see a lot of them as consumer spending returns to its historic levels of mid to upper 60% of GNP. The credit card, no down payment, zero percent financing, home equity loan from bubble levels is OVER! From 72% to 65% equals 10% over supply of retail spaces, every tenth store empty.
Lets raise taxes and drive everyone out of their house and business!
Ruckertom, it was great. Thanks for asking.
"Apparently, you do not have the ability to read between the lines. You would be wise never to invest in the stock market where everything is vague and gray."
PPS: THIS is the kind of garbage I was talking about.
Ongoing issues in the economy make it so people lose their homes. When people lose their homes they replace trim, take appliances, and assure that they have the nicest things that they paid for when they moved in. At times neighbors feel it is their "duty" even their "right" to harass the neighbor who has lost their home. In fact the very people who are standing on some ficticious "moral high ground" are themselves guilty of a great many things. My own issues preclude me from putting too much information here, however, there is an absolute case of ENTITLITIS in our city. People feel they are entitled to information about others who they have no business attempting to gather. Further the very people who believe they wish others well in fact do not. When nosy neighbors with entitlitis begin punishing everyone around who are less fortunate than them they perpetuate an elitist attitude.
I for one am going to move on and begin anew. I wish all of those who have attempted to harm me due to their entitlitis that they get everything they deserve in life.
Business news outlets are reporting that something on the order of $500B in commercial real estate loans are coming due this year that are expected to be called by the lenders.
Seven Bridges is a preview of what the next 12-16 months are going to look like. It will be the commercial version of the sub-prime melt down.
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I agree that that commercial version of the sub-prime melt down is on the way. The second largest mall developer in the USA that owns Oak Brook Mall also was foreclosed on by the banks.
The 50 million number I used was just to make a point. Seven Bridges is massive and inlucdes over 330 homes, six 6 story apartment/condo buildings, a 12 story condo building, Edwards Health Club, the Hockey Rink, the Signature Banquet Hall, and it goes on and on. It is easily worth over a billion dollars. Moser and his Parter the Harris Group appeared to have invested about 250 million of their own money over 22 years before they were foreclosed on. The rest of the billion or 2 was bank money or other investor money such as the folks who bought condos or homes.
There are at least 2 banks and possibly more involved. Cole Taylor Bank was the first to foreclose. I know a bank which owns another building is about to foreclose since one tenant has not paid rent in 4 months and the other 14 months. It is doubtful Moser/Harris were paying the mortgage on this building if they were not paying it on better buildings where tenants were more current.
Moser basically had loose standards. He was renting this space to weak tenants who were dumb enough to pay 26 dollars per sq. ft. plus 8 for CAM and REAL ESTATE. He really did not qualify them properly. Many seemed to run out of money before they could even open up. It seemed Moser was under pressure to fill the buildings up to keep the banks happy but in the end the low quality and financially weak tenants he signed leases with were just paper tigers who could not deliver.
It is not easy to afford 34 dollars per sq. ft. in gross rent in a town like Woodridge which is mostly poor to middle class.
The Sun article brought more confusion than clarity to the situation. The Moser Attorney was sugar coating a disastrous situation. One person who read the article at my health club stated to me only one buidling was forceclosed on according to his reading of the Sun Article so what is the big deal. I had to explain to him the Sun Reporter did not really grasp the gravity of the situation. And maybe he did not fully comprehend the article as it was a little vague.
Hopefully, the Naperville Sun will do another article and explain the situation a little better. The Moser Attorney knows what foreclosue means. He should have told the Sun Reporter the banks kicked us out of Seven Bridges and our entire 250 million investment somehow evaportated. We have little left. When the other banks foreclose we will have nothing left. The situaion is getting worse not better. For now he did a number on the Sun Readers through his sugar coating. Just like Moser/Harris danced around the banks for a while by signing up sub prime tenants who do not have the ability to pay any rent let alone astronomical rents.
Moser would be smart to let the next bank for example take the building with one tenant behind 14 months and another 4 months. It is better to take the hit now than later when more mortgage arrears accumulate each month. The quicker they foreclose the less he loses. He apparently also is upside down on this massive development. That means the value of the property declined to below the value of the mortgage. Even if he could afford to rescue this huge development with his other money, he may have chosen not to since in essence it is worthless.
I do not know if these banks can hunt down Moser's wealth elsewhere to meet his foreclose obligations. Let us hope his attorney was smart and incorporated this investment so they can not penetrate it and wipe him out personally. My guess would be that his attorney incorporated this project to limit his liability. Since he is only a half owner he may have only lost 125 million as the Harris Group may have lost the other half of the 250 million. Anyway that is the story as it is being told to me by numerous tenants and brokers involved with this development. The accuracy of my version depends on the accuracy of my informants. I have not reason to doubt any of my informants so far.
Lets see, $500B divided by $50M equals 10,000 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.(Anonymous)
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I think it would be better to use 500B divided by 250M equals 2,000 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
If the 500B factors in loans and mortgages, it would be better to say 500B divided by 1B equals 500 Seven Bridges foreclosures in the coming months.
Usually when banks foreclose there is no equity left in the property. So it is all loans and mortgages by "default." But since banks required 25% in most of these commercial developments investors may have lost an additional 167B of equity that evaporated. I believe the 250M lost in Seven Bridges over the 22 years of investing in that massive project was the equity of Moser/Harris that materialized and suddenly evaporated.
It is similar to a margin call in the stock market. You use margin to grow your portfolio to incredible levels during a growth cycle. But if a vicious bear cycle comes like the one we had in 2000-2001 or the one we had in 2008-2009, margin will wipe you out.
Personally I was wiped out in the 2000-2001 catastrophe. But I learned my lesson and somehow I managed to come out ahead in the 2008-2009 market meltdown by selling frequently and ferociously and buying back when Warren Buffet said buy even though he did not exactly pick rock bottom. He was off by about 1000 Dow points.
You can sell stocks with the click of 2 buttons on your computer. In the stock market there is always a fool willing to buy what you are willing to sell at a high price. And sometimes there is a genius willing to buy what you are willing to sell at a low price. Of course you never know until you have hindsight if that person was a fool or genious. Or if you were a fool or genious. Selling real estate is much more complicated and complex. It is also a much longer process.
No matter how you slice it the real estate numbers appear to be very disturbing.