zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

wake me up when this is done also....

Anonymous on June 22, 2009 12:09 AM
Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 21, 2009 10:23 PM

Is that how it started, or is this how it started

*********************

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 19, 2009 7:01 PM

It seems you go with the flow of the parots, Ken.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you would have gone a few posts back to By Ken on June 19, 2009 2:35 PM, you would have seen who started with whom first.

Ken, clearly came out of nowhere and started up with me. Just like everyone else starts up with me first while I am simply promoting my cause which has nothing to do with the characters on this blog site.

Again, you arrived late. If you want to be a credible blogger please read this thread from the beginning and then you can see who started with whom first.

It is really hard to dispute the evidence when it is in black and white. I am not sure why you want to make a fool of yourself by joining this nonsensical debate.

My suggestion to you is to quit while you are still ahead. I think you are still ahead.....so quit. It really ain't worth starting up with me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Ken has been blogging often and on many threads. I have not gone to any thread he is blogging on to bother him or attack him. He came to the only one I am blogging on to start a fight with ME. How could that not be obvious to you, Anonymous?

I would never go on a thread that does not interest me for the purpose of attacking a fellow blogger. But many of the bloggers here came to this thread for the sole purpose of attacking me.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 21, 2009 10:23 PM

Is that how it started, or is this how it started

*********************

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 19, 2009 7:01 PM

It seems you go with the flow of the parots, Ken.

I always thought you were a brainless and a mindless sheep following the latest popular shephard.

By Ken on June 20, 2009 12:10 PM
Maybe it is time to go back to Linden Oaks and get a review of your meds as they seem to not be working.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anonymous,

This is how it started. What don't you get?

Ken started it.

Cased closed.

When people join in the middle of a conversation this is what happens. You usually make comments that you later might regret.

Unlike you, TTT, I have always used my real first name. I don't worry about crazies like you tracking me down as it gives me good target practice. As the old song says, I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane. Too bad you can't say the same.

I do believe many moderators have made it clear they wish the personal attacks would stop. I also know that you and your many schizo personalities have drawn the most warnings for personal attacks, which is pretty much the extent of past moderators communicating with you. Funny how you never get the message...

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 21, 2009 7:20 PM

Yesterday or the day before Ken brought Linden Oaks into the picture. I am simply responding. I am trying to be in Kindergarten so I can relate to Kenny and Barbie. It is not easy but I am trying my utmost best.

Maybe one day if we can chase the thugs, gangs and cultists off this once wonderful blog site we can all use our real names. That would really be nice. Until then, better wisdom indicates we all remain fictional characters blogging anonymously.

--------------------

And therefore you get to make fun of someone who is using their real name. What does Linden Oaks have to do with ridiculing someone's name?

By Anonymous on June 21, 2009 7:07 PM
By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 21, 2009 6:45 PM
By Ken on June 21, 2009 12:57 PM
It is also nice to know if my kids do drive me crazy, there is internet access at Linden Oaks...

*********************************

And one wonders why no one uses their real names on this blog.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with many people is they butt in withhout knowing the beginning of the story.

Yesterday or the day before Ken brought Linden Oaks into the picture. I am simply responding. I am trying to be in Kindergarten so I can relate to Kenny and Barbie. It is not easy but I am trying my utmost best.

Maybe one day if we can chase the thugs, gangs and cultists off this once wonderful blog site we can all use our real names. That would really be nice. Until then, better wisdom indicates we all remain fictional characters blogging anonymously.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 21, 2009 6:45 PM
By Ken on June 21, 2009 12:57 PM
It is also nice to know if my kids do drive me crazy, there is internet access at Linden Oaks...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No need for your kids to drive you crazy. I think you already are crazy. Just check in at your earliest convenience. Barbie will be there at the front door to greet you. Don't get too excited as she is made out of plastic.

*********************************

And one wonders why no one uses their real names on this blog.

By Ken on June 21, 2009 12:57 PM
It is also nice to know if my kids do drive me crazy, there is internet access at Linden Oaks...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No need for your kids to drive you crazy. I think you already are crazy. Just check in at your earliest convenience. Barbie will be there at the front door to greet you. Don't get too excited as she is made out of plastic.

By Where is the Moderator? on June 21, 2009 5:38 PM
Taxes: You said I butted in here with out knowing the full story. How do you know how long I have been watching the antics of those who blog here? Did you assume this was my first visit? Perhaps you never considered that I have been watching and reading here for a long time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I did not assume this was your first visit. Since you asked, my honest answer is I assumed you are one of the numerous hypocrites on this blog site who change their handles while attacking others for doing the same.

You butted in as a biased observer if you had been in fact observing as you state and not blogging under another handle.

You questioned why I am allowed to call bloggers who attack me maggots, losers and idiots. Those are words I used so you were definitely referring to me.

You did not question those who used other derogatory words and name calling that generates my flagrant flaming and flogging. You showed bias if you were a neutral observer as you would like us to believe.

The Moderator is allowing me to blog. The Moderator is allowing me to use the words I am using. This does not mean the Moderator is supporting me. But it does mean to me that the Moderator is fed up with all these personal attacks against bloggers including me and he is going to let those who attack get a doze of their own medicine. That is my personal interpretation for whatever it is worth.

I believe the Moderator is the only one being fair and not taking sides. For that, I am extremely grateful.

Taxes: You said I butted in here with out knowing the full story. How do you know how long I have been watching the antics of those who blog here? Did you assume this was my first visit? Perhaps you never considered that I have been watching and reading here for a long time.

In any event, it appears you felt the need to disparage me with out knowing anything about me. It also appears you feel you have the support and endorsement of the moderator to say and do anything you like. I have yet to have seen any evidence of this kind of support.

I am not looking to debate you or to become another target of your rants or venom. I am just saying that you jumped to conclusions about me and perhaps about the moderator's support as well.

By Where is the Moderator? on June 21, 2009 11:47 AM
I'd really like to know why you allow this kind of flagrant flaming continue to go on. Is it acceptable to let someone go on and on calling people losers, maggots, idiots, etc.? Is this the kind of blog site the Sun wants to have? Is it all about attracting attention? Increasing the number of "hits" the site receives?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Moderator has always been there. He has asked bloggers to drop this subject and concentrate on the message.

The majority of bloggers refuse to let go.

At this point I am quite sure the Moderator realizes who starts this.

I believe this is why he is letting me respond in the way I am responding. He made a really good point that he is hoping the bloggers will see this is not getting them anywhere.

The bloggers who have the mentality of Kindergarten children don't seem to get it.

I think the Moderator is correct to let this exchange continue on an old thread until the Kindergarten Children realize that bullying does not work.

I am limiting my comments to one thread. I am not here to destroy this entire Blog Site as is being alleged. Most of the bloggers who attack me here are blogging on other threads. I do not chase them on the other threads attacking them personally.

They come here to attack me. Again, people like you butt in during the middle of an exchange and make allegations without understanding the FULL scope of the story. You are simply fueling the fire you want extinguished.

I am sure I am getting under the skin of most bloggers because they are in love with their handles and associate their beings with their monikers. I am sure I am paining them. They say repeatedly this is their last time on here and they come back for more and more. It is an indication that they can not stand being counter-attacked. It bothers them.

So the message to these thugs and gangbangers is stop your attacks. Stop your bullying. It does not work on a blog site, in a court of law or in the real world.

Many of you have tried to compare this blog site to a court of law. In a court of law when convicting a defendent you can not bring in prejudicial history from the defendents past to try to influence the jury into convicting on a new charge. You can not point out a defendent was convicted for rape 10 years ago, when trying to convict him for murder. That would be highly prejudicial. The judge would not allow it.

Basically we have a group of thugs here attacking every message I present and trying to discredit it because in this fictionalized imagination they think I committed the crime of using multi-handles which was not even crime....not even an improprietly....not even a violation of blog rules....lol....UNBELIEVABLE!

What we have here is a messenger being attacked for using fictional characters in the past to get his points across. It is old news. It was not against blog rules and to the best of my knowledge the Moderator did not say I can not change my handle anymore. He allows me to change my handle as I please. He does not have an issue with bloggers changing their handles. If he issues a directive that bloggers must have one handle, I will be the first to obey. He has not yet issued such a directive to the best of my recollection.

Rather than asking the Moderator why he allows this flagrant flaming to continue, why don't you ask your fellow bloggers why they continue this flagrant flaming that brings retaliation.

The Moderator does have an option to censure all those who start this flagrant flaming. He has chosen not to resort to this extreme measure. I commend him for not censuring while he tries to exhaust every other measure availble to him short of censure.

I think he is doing the absolutely right thing. He wants bloggers to get over this nonsense. If they want to continue the nonsense, he wants them to know there is a price for this nonsense. The price if FLAGRANT FLAMING! He is given the bloggers a CHOICE. I am sure he is hoping they will eventually make the RIGHT CHOICE. Let us hope they do. Only time will tell.

Taxes wrote:

And while we are at it, stop your childish remarks about my spelling.

This is the only thing in your most recent post that is at all worthy of comment. I believe I have only ever made reference to your spelling once, when, in quoting you, I inserted sic after your misspelling/misuse of pat. The expression is "pat on the back", not "pad on the back."

I don't normally comment on spelling and grammar in other people's posts for several reasons, but most especially as I am aware that I more than hold up my end when it comes to making typos. I made an exception in this instance because: 1) I was quoting you, and the use of the word sic is appropriate in such an instance; and, 2) you have made this same mistake quite a few times, more than enough for it not to be excused as a typo. If my pointing out this admittedly rather minor mistake offended you, I apologize.

-JQP

P.s. Sorry, again, Chris. I just wanted to address this one point.

Maybe you could just start a thread labeled "Sybil's Delusions and Alter Egos", Chris, and then move all of its rants and ensuing comments to that thread. While I hate to encourage Sybil, I also hate to let him/her/it post all his/her/it's lies unchallenged. I must admit I also get a kick out of picturing him/her/it with drool coming out of his/her/its mouth as the delusional rants are typed up, and that does keep me interested in replying to him/her/it. It is also nice to know if my kids do drive me crazy, there is internet access at Linden Oaks...

I'd really like to know why you allow this kind of flagrant flaming continue to go on. Is it acceptable to let someone go on and on calling people losers, maggots, idiots, etc.? Is this the kind of blog site the Sun wants to have? Is it all about attracting attention? Increasing the number of "hits" the site receives?

Nice rant Sybil.

Here is a way you can stop the animosity towards yourself, when you do get around to posing, err, I mean posting (Freudian slip) on another thread, try to stay with the topic at hand and not turn every topic into yet another hate the City, PD, FD and anyone who gets a pension thread. You will see that soon, you will be treated as the insignificant blogger that you are.

By John Q. Public on June 20, 2009 8:04 PM
Taxes,

P.s. To Chris: I apologize for putting you through all of this. I'll try not to post any more in this thread.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JQP,

Your apology to the Moderator is meaningless. Why make it? As soon as the Moderator puts up another thread that interests me and I begin blogging on it, you and your gang banging thugs will start this cycle all over again.

I will blog on the subject thread using facts, evidence and truths and you will like parots begin all over again with your personal attacks.

If you try to think about it for a second, you know who will start it. So why start it. Why begin again and let me call you a maggot not only beating a dead horse but eating a dead horse? Why would you want to go there again, John Baby? Do you need the Moderator to slap your hands with a ruler?

Do you want to be called a maggot again, JQP? Based on your Kindergarten mentality, I can not answer that question. We will just have to wait and see. And it was not me who said your mentality and behavior amounts to a Kindergarten child.

But be warned if you or any of your fellow thugs ever start up with me on another thread, I will attack you viciously and repeatedly as I have on this thread. I will not allow you to hijack a thread in order to simply attack my persona. Hopefully, the Moderator will put a stop to you thugs hijacking thread after thread to continue your silly personal attacks against ME. That is his call, though. I can handle the situation either way.

Your stupidy and silliness must end at some point. I have more sustaining power than all your thugs combined. So why continue a losing battle. Why be so immature?

This is a 7 month old story. We have discussed it many times. You all sound like broken records at this point.

If you care about Moderator Chris, try to get a hold of yourself, try to control yourself, try to act mature instead of stupid and silly, Mr Public Baby.

Only time will tell how you, Mommy, Kenny Boy, and The Three Stooges will act in the future. But I would put big Vegas money that you did not learn a thing. That you will be back to your old habits. That your stripes will never change.

I really don't care about my monikers as I trash them. I am only holding on to this one a little longer than usual to try to settle things down. It was an attemtp to appease you idiots as I thought you were sincere about wanting to move forward. There will be no further attempts to appease you in the future.

You thugs love your monikers. They are your BIG EGOS. Only a loser would derive such pleasure out of a moniker. John Q. Public has even admitted he has a Big Ego....as if we did not know.

Now if you all want to grow up and graduate out of kindergarten, you must learn that you must fight for a cause you believe in and not your ego. Fighting for your ego will get you nowhere.

And while we are at it, stop your childish remarks about my spelling. I am the best speller on this site by far. Apparently, you all use spell check because you can not spell. I do not use spell check because I can obviously spell. If you can not spell one in a thousand words, you are an excellent speller...a superb speller.

Now if you folks can get out of kindergarten, maybe you will also learn how to spell.

By Anonymous on June 20, 2009 8:09 PM
I actually feel sorry for those few, that they fell for your sick joke.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the reason you think this is a sick joke is because you and many others think we are blogging about personalities and monikers.

We are suppose to be blogging about issues. Discussing the message and not the messenger.

You have all proven to me that you are all a bunch of losers who were never here to discuss the subjects posted on the threads.

You were here to make fools out of yourselves attacking anonymous monikers who have no relevance to the subject matter on the thread. You were never here to discuss the subject matter. Thus while it was not the goal of my characters to make fools of you, you allowed them to make fools of you all, for over 2 years. Maybe the lesson learned in the future is to focus on the message as the Moderator suggested instead of the messenger. If you had heeded the advice of the Moderators no one could have made fools of you all. But you refused to heed the advice of the former Moderator and Host. You refused to heed the advice of the current Moderator. So whatever came your way, was well deserved. Those who do not listen, will be made fools of. That is what happened.

If you guys feel my fictional characters made fools of you, well then let it be. Apparently, you guys even feel abused by my fictional characters. I will not apologize on behalf of my fictional characters. I am very proud of them and how they handled themselves. I am very proud of them for sticking to the message and debating the subject matter posted by the Moderator.

Well, now that I have gotten to know you rotten internet thugs and gangbangers, I am glad my fictional characters had your heads spinning. I am glad they hurt your feelings. I am glad they made idiots of you and made you feel like such fools....the fools you must likely are in the real world. I am sorry that you were all stupid enough to think a blog site was the real world. A blog site is a blog site. It is not the real world. It is not suppose to be the real world. It is not suppose to be a courtroom, either. How dumb that you guys would think a blog site is like a court room?

I think what is sick is that you guys are obsessed with an old story over 7 months old. You are obsessesed with fictional charactes. It shows how boring your lives must be that fictional characters could dominate your lives and get under your skin to this extent.

Really, you guys need to get out in the real world. Go out and meet real people. Go to a courtroom and sit in it for a few hours since you don't know the difference between a blog site and a court room.

What weight does someone blogging as Anonymous have on this site? Absolutely Zero. He can not even be held as accountable as my fictional characters. He can say what he wants and come back as another Anonymous or another character and no one will know. Utter hypocrisy that an Anonymous is passing judgment on my characters.

I see a real hypocrisy in you folks. It is OK for you to be anonymous and not even have a handle which in my opionion is worse than having multiple handles. Think about that Anonymous. When it comes to accountability, you have less accountability than a fictional character. Much less! I can account for the credibility of my fictional characters. I made sure my fictional characters never lied. I controlled them. They would never dare to lie. I would never allow them to.

Who is going to account for your credibility, Anonymous? No one can tell one anonymous from another so you can be lying and telling stories all day and night. I am sure idiots like you choose to be anonymous so no one can hold them credible since they have NO CREDIBILITY. They have no REPUTATION to uphold. They have no HONOR to live for.

So what is your point. That you are ignorant. Well, I already knew that. Do you have any other points you would like to make? Please make them. The floor is yours. Be my guest, please!

Sybil, Fred isn't fictional, he is a real person, me. Can't say that about Ameena and Co., now can we?

As far as your last rant, hate to break it to you, but the Napergate Movement got flushed the day you got outed back in January. Not a peep out of the gang, except maybe a the handful of real people that you duped, expressing their displeasure with you and your antics. If I was one of them, I think i would have disappeared also, in complete embarrassment. I actually feel sorry for those few, that they fell for your sick joke.

Holy cow, are you really admitting to pretending to be a girl on the internet?

I haven't really been following this thread but wow things just got creepy in here.

Taxes,

A few more comments on your list of "supporters": Southwest Naperville Taxpayer? Definitely not one of your supporters. And Anonymous and Anonymous II? Well, both of those posts (if you read the whole things) have all the marks of being you, so I'd bet dollars to donuts they are you.

I doubted you could find 5 or 10 bloggers who were generally on your side in those threads, and so far I am right. But that is not really the issue. The real issues are that, if you did have supporters, the number is much closer to the five or ten I challenged you to come up with than to the hundreds that you claim. And the 40 or 50 (or, as you put it, "only" 40 or 50---gotta laugh at that!) handles you have admitted to using read like a Who's Who of Potluck Napergatianism. It was those 40 of 50 who dominated, or attempted to dominate the discussion, and to drive away bloggers who disagreed with you. I know it. T.B., Joe, Anonymous ONE and Ken all know it. And now Experienced seems to know it. You can try to reinterpret the past all you want, but the evidence is there in plain sight for anyone who wants to know the truth.

-JQP

P.s. To Chris: I apologize for putting you through all of this. I'll try not to post any more in this thread.

By Fred on June 20, 2009 5:28 PM

Sorry to burst you bubble Sybil, but fictional characters are not credible. Try entering testimony in court from a fictional character and see where it gets you. The very least, a good laugh from the courtroom, at worse, a contempt charge.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Ameena is not credible, neither is Fred. Both are fictional characters.

I think your ignorance and immaturity show in your latest post.

You apparently do not know the difference between a blog site and a court of law. That really pretty much summarizes why I can not get through your thick skull.

At least Kindergarten Children have absorbing brains that are sponge like. You guys are so hard headed and dense, I can not believe the Moderator gave you the respect of Kindergarten Children. I would have never bestowed that dignity on you and your fellow thugs.

By John Q. Public on June 20, 2009 5:27 PM
Taxes,
BTW, the blog from which you copied those posts happens not to be one of the ones covered by Chris' IP address report.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I simply chose a thread that you provided a link to in your post. I never said it was one covered by Chris' IP address report.

John Q. Public,

Many people blogging on those Napergate Threads were not me. I just gave a sample who were not part of the cult group that you are part of. Bloggers who were debating and had Napergate leanings or at least respect for others.

You and/or your ilk had made allegations that I was talking to myself on these blog sites. I was talking to the 20 antagonists on that blog site using different characters. Another 20 or 30 were also discussing issues with the antagonists, myself and others who had Napergate leanings. Former Moderator Jim and Host Ted were almost commenting on every single post in those days. I was talking to them quite often through my fictional characters and the exchanges were always enriching and enlightening and much more civil than they are today.

Where everyone went is a good question? I think most people from those days have deserted the blog site because of the hostile tactics of your group. You cultist group no longer debates. They attack bloggers and chase them off the blog site. I am sure not chasing people down and attacking them.

Your gang cultist group simply attacks the messenger day and night. Your gang of thugs never debate the message. That is all you guys do John Q. Public these days. You attack me peronally. Never what I say. The moderator asked you to move beyond these personal attacks and you have been defiant....disobeying the Moderator. Showing no respect for the Moderator. Acting like Kindergarten Children as the Moderator pointed out. Of course I have had to act like a Kindergarten child so I can communicate with you guys at your level.

I have shown respect for the Moderator. I have done what he has told me to do. You and your cult have disobeyed the Moderator repeatedly and defiantly. If I were him, I would bring the ruler out and slam it on your hands so hard so that you could not type your garbage anymore. Garbage in is garbage out.

Apparently, you have adopted a policy of it is easier to attack the messenger than attack the message TTT presents to us. Let us keep attacking him and hope he will go away.

Sorry, I am not going away. I will continue to let the readers know that you are a bunch of losers and thugs who can not debate....who can not discuss.

Your whole strategy is based on hostile personal attacks even 7 months after an issue has been revolved.

As I stated before, John Q. Public you feel beating a dead horse is challenging. You will see how the maggots will eat you while you are alive John Q. Public. Your credibility and reputation have been already been eaten up. Do you think the maggots will spare any part of you?

You showed you are a loser who wants to engage in personal attacks because they give you rises and highs. You showed you are an egotistical maniac in love with his moniker.

You have blogged on some or all of the other 9 threads. Do you see me going on those threads to attack you in retaliation for your attacking me? Never! At least you had the class to finally admit that you guys initiated the personal attacks. That is the only thing truthful I have heard from your mouth. I also feel the Moderator finally knows who initiates these personal attacks. I believe that is the reason he has allowed me to counter attack and defend myself and use any words I choose short of libel.

I am mature and you are immature, JQP. You have relegated yourself to the level of Ken Boy and the Three Stooges of Anonymous One, Keyboard Rambo and Fed Up with His Own Noise.

You are no better that TB who comes on here defending Big Fat Pensions and does not reveal that both his father and brother are lined up for these hand-outs at taxpayer expense. It took him over a month to admit this. I had to badger him for quite a while before he admitted his brother was a fire fighter. He slipped up on his Dad.

You guys can say all you want. I guarantee you that this current pension system is a disaster and will implode. And when you see the latest numbers come out in Sept., you and your ilk will put a spin on the numbers and try to justify them even though they got worse than last year. You and your ilk do not want the taxpayers to know the truth. You know I will make sure they know the truth.

I know I have influenced Sun Editors to run articles and threads on pensions. That to me is a small piece of success in my battles against excess that is causing our taxes to rise exponentially. I even got them to do a thread on Double Dipping after I pointed it out on this blog site. I have influenced them to do a story on the Seven Bridges bankruptcy.

At some point, you ignorants need to wake up and save this pension system from those greedy folks who are abusing it. Yes, police officers, fire fighters, city officials, state legislatures and teachers are all abusing this system anyway they can. It is so common for these folks to retire at the earliest opportunity possible usually in the early or mid fifties, collect their Big Fat Pension and go steal jobs in the civilian sector while collecting a pension leaving many hard working private citizens unemployed while the unemployed have to pay for those collecting the Big Fat Pensions.

And to add insult to injury, so many of these public employees retire only to get another public job while collecting their Big Fat Pension and working on a second Big Fat Pension. Unbelievable and even more unbelievable that you choose to ignore my message.

All you City Officials and Employees masquerading as fictional characters to defend your Big Fat Salaries and Pensions are despicable human beings. No private citizen with half-a-brain would defend something that puts a hole in his pockets.

Only public employees abusing the taxpayer and getting rich off their backs would support such an injustice. Wake up taxpayers and try to see through this conspiracy that is separating you from your hard earned dollars. Ignore the thugs on this site who are trying to protect their Big Fat Pensions at your EXPENSE.

This is not BARBIE WORLD, Ken Boy. Kenny Boy! Check in with Barbie

Too funny! Now that brings back memories. Sybil may change her name, but the posting style stays the same.

PS. Show me one instance where my fictional character Ameena lied about her research at the library. She reviewed the Napergate Ads, old articles in the Sun, copied some, and in many cases posted verbatim off the ads. She was 100% credible

Sorry to burst you bubble Sybil, but fictional characters are not credible. Try entering testimony in court from a fictional character and see where it gets you. The very least, a good laugh from the courtroom, at worse, a contempt charge.

Taxes,

BTW, the blog from which you copied those posts happens not to be one of the ones covered by Chris' IP address report.

-JQP

By Ken on June 20, 2009 12:10 PM

Three, and speaking of definitions, I never "cussed" out the police, and no one else did either. Just another one of your countless lies...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, Ken. What do you call this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ken on February 27, 2008 9:04 AM
I don't know why anyone would be shocked by illegal police activity in this day and age. The only difference between gangs and cops is that the cops wear nicer uniforms and are legally allowed to carry guns.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is one of your many rants against the police that I suspect bloggers attribute to me when they review old blogs. Calling cops nothing more than gangbangers in your delusional mind I guess is not cussing. It is borderline libel. Accusing them of performing illegal activity with no proof or documentation is not cussing on them either I guess in your distorted view of the world. This is not BARBIE WORLD, Ken Boy. It is the real world where you have to be accountable for your prior statements. You can not deny them if you post and print them.

I think it is you who is delusional and needs to visit Linden Oaks. It seems you have the early stages of Alzheimer's. My heart goes out to you. Unfortunately, there is no medicine for your apparent disease.

If using a fictional characters to present your message is lying than we are all lying except for maybe Tom Higgins and Chris Magee. The rest of us believe it or not, are all fictional characters on this blog site. There is not one iota of proof that anyone is who they say they are.

Every novel writer and movie producer is technically lying when they use fictional characters to portray a non-fiction book or movie.

I think not, Kenny Boy! Check in with Barbie, I think she has your medication ready for you. Later, she will serve you your plastic brownie.

========================================================================================================================================

PS. Show me one instance where my fictional character Ameena lied about her research at the library. She reviewed the Napergate Ads, old articles in the Sun, copied some, and in many cases posted verbatim off the ads. She was 100% credible. She probably did more research than all the clowns on this web site combined. I am sure of that. And she presented her research in a very orderly and professional manner on this blog site. She had Moderaor Jim, Host Ted and just about everyone else blogging with her non-stop to learn more about Napergate and her research.

Taxes,

You really are a piece of work. I like the way you listed Quick Question as a Napergatian. I remember QQ. He most assuredly was NOT a Napergatian. In fact, the Napergatians tried to cut him a new one because he wouldn't drink their Kool-Aid. In fact, the majority of the posts you just listed cannot be qualified as Napergatian. I never absolutely said you were the only person posting on those threads. If that were the challenge, you could have listed T.B., Ken and even me as not being you. What I did say is that you were pretty much (notice the fudge factor I allowed myself) the only Napergatian (besides Kevin), and I did challenge you to list five or ten Napergatians who were not you. You still haven't done that. You may be able to find five if you look hard enough, but you certainly cannot find the hundreds---or even--dozens that you claim.

You cannot change history. Anybody familiar with those threads, and familiar with the list of handles provided by Chris that were definitely you, knows that in number and, especially, length of posts, it covers the great bulk of posts that sang the Napergatian hymn. I don't know how exhaustive Chris' research was, but there may be other names from other threads that he missed that also have your telltale IP address. For that matter, you could use a Naperville Public Library computer, or take a laptop to Dunkin Donuts or the Tilted Kilt and post using a different handle and nobody would be the wiser (I hope I didn't just give you an idea).

If you had all of these supporters, where are they today? Why did they suddenly all stop posting after Chris finally outed you? Why are you pretty much the only person posting since January who speaks reverently of the Napergate Man?

Still not eating crow,
JPQ

P.s. Here are my exact words from an earlier post in this thread: As you read through the thread, keep in mind that most if not all of the posts that praise the Napergate Man and/or criticize the NPD and/or express agreement with these posts were made by our friend here under dozens of different aliases.

TTT, while your delusional rant is hilarious, I do have to point out a few inaccuracies.

One, you told many lies, most of which I pointed out in the relevant threads. If anyone cares, they can read the archives, but since you are a known liar, there is really no reason to re-post them here. Just an example, when you post that you are a woman who is doing research to write a book, that is a lie. I know it is hard, if not impossible, for the delusional to see their own lies, much less admit to them, so I will leave it at that.

Two, I am not a hypocrite, as I have consistently stuck by my stated views of cops. Maybe you should look up the definitions of big words before you use them, much less try to spell them...

Three, and speaking of definitions, I never "cussed" out the police, and no one else did either. Just another one of your countless lies...

While all this is amusing, I think I should bring up one other point. At one time, one of your many schizophrenic personalities mentioned an intimate knowledge of Linden Oaks. Maybe it is time to go back there and get a review of your meds as they seem to not be working.

====================================================================

By Rich Hemp on March 17, 2008 12:50 PM
Hey Barry Quigley, every time I call CONPA at 815-242-0019, the recording plays Grateful Dead music in the background....what gives? The Hempster

====================================================================

By Quick Question on March 17, 2008 4:42 PM

I have read through the Napergate blogs and know the history of Napergate and again say I admire the Napergate man. He never backed down from a fight, and argued and fought for his rights.

====================================================================

By Schaefer on April 5, 2008 8:41 AM
RJ,
You seem like you are a man on a mission who is obsessed with Napergate Movement. As if you want to tarnish its credibility!

This Napergate Movement has been around since late 1994 when the Napergate began endorsing candidates. It seems like it gets stronger with each attack on it. You may not realize it but you are making them look better and adding to their numbers.

What is this group doing...questioning unnecessary police overtime that is enough to pay for 50 full time new police officers? Who really is not going to side with them?

====================================================================

By Kevin on April 16, 2008 8:11 AM
I get very conflicted with the way the conversation goes here on these threads sometimes...I have said this before...the reason why I have aligned myself with the Napergatians is because I believe in their core mission...which I believe to be is for everyone to be treated the same in this town regardless of your stature and class and to act as a watchdog group over how money is spent in this town...when I say "money" I mean our tax dollars

====================================================================

By ACE IN THE HOLE on April 16, 2008 11:12 AM
When I think about the irony of this whole thing it is almost beyond comprehension. With maybe 200 subdivisions in Naperville, they chose the subdivision where the Napergate Man is a resident to experiment with the concept of commercialization of a subdivision. Didn't City Officials even know where this guy lived to attack his subdivision after attacking his liquor licenses....dah!!! Just for the record Spring Green was in Pembroke Commons where the Napergate Man lives.

====================================================================

By Anonymous II on April 20, 2008 9:17 PM
Converting non-Napergatians to join the Napergate Pary and leaving the Establishment Party, is nothing different than Democrats converting Republicans or vice versa. It has nothing to do with fanatical religion or sinners. No Napergatians has ever mentioned religion. Thus one can see who starts all the fabrications and innuendos on these blogs

===================================================================

By Rod Randall on May 1, 2008 9:24 AM

Post by By Ken on April 30, 2008 11:21 PM:

"I posted this in the overtime thread, but feel it bears repeating here. It is an easy example showing how incorrect the napergatian math is:

A $40 million take hike would cost the owner of a $331,000 home roughly $76 a year in additional property taxes for each of the next 20 years.

This information can be found in this article about the plans for the Central renovation:http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=71761

====================================================================

By Southwest Naperville Taxpayer on May 1, 2008 11:03 PM
Gary,

Joe has often stated he is not "city", and often leans toward the "Napergatian" viewpoint, so you can be sure he wasn't using the "City Calculator".

====================================================================

By Anonymous on May 19, 2008 9:42 PM
Ken,
You amaze me. You are always speaking of this OT being reimbursed.

Yes, it is remimbursed from us tax payers thru a sham transaction. Thus there is no reimbursement from the charities.

It is a total sham.

You should be on the side of what is right and not what is wrong.

====================================================================

By mr. quigley on March 13, 2008 8:40 AM
No change will ever occurr in NPD,until federal investigation cleans house. Dave Dial is the front man for illegals to acquire driving certificates. See his column in the SUN,maybe a reprint is needed to remind all the bloggers.The NPD is one of the most corrupt pd's I have encountered in 30 years of working to reign in police misconduct and criminal behavior.There are many,many reasons the federal government has assembled the largest task force in Chicagoland.The feds know of the problems we face in exposing criminal police conduct.You can help reform NPD,join C.O.N.P.A.(citizens observing naperville police activities),we use a 815 number to intake calls from citizens with legitimate complaints about NPD behavior. The MORE citizens unite,and speak in one voice to the doj/fbi the sooner this problem can be addressed.Crooked cops depend on the silence of 'good' citizens to continue to operate outside the law.Many good people remain quiet and/or afraid to speak out fearing retribution.We have never had this level of federal support to address this problem,now we do,how will you respond??C.O.N.P.A. 815-242-0019 call for more info or to submit YOUR story.Thank you and we look forward to hearing your story.

========================================================================================================================================

These are a few samples that are not my characters. While I recognize about half the characters on the Napergate Threads as being mine, I don't recognize the other half as being mine. Some of the worse cussing against the police were not my characters. My characters were discussing PROFESSIONAL COURTESY. I suspect a lot of bloggers who got DUI's unloaded on the police in an unfair manner. The problem is everyone thinks I am everyone. I was not everyone. The conversation was not between my characters with a few exceptions that we already discussed. There were at least 20 antagonists and my characters along with the non-characters that I had nothing to do with were taking on at least 20 or 30 antagonists.

So much of this discussion on this one thread involved the former Host and Moderator who were very actively involved in the discussion from beginning to end. So for all those who think I was talking to myself, I think you are all hallucinating. You have all come to wrongful conclusions based on propaganda spread by a few who were smoking dope in their Mommy's basement.

Unfortunately, many bloggers are not willing to go back and do their own research. I for one was not willing to go back and waste my time. Now, I am and since you all want to go back I can post dozens and dozens of handles that were not me and suppported Napergatian positions and other positions I supported that were not me.

I can go to the Pet Store Thread and also show the majority of bloggers were not me even though I used multiple characters to support the Pet Store Owner.

When I was Barak Obama, I was being one person, because I wanted to be one person but was blasted for daring to say the Palestinians may be the abused party in this Mid East Conflict. Let us face it.....I don't like taking popular positions. That should be obvious. Of course I am going to be attacked viciously if I don't tow the establishment line. I will always be an out of the box thinker who thinks for himself/herself.

Even when I blog as one handle on multiple threads, I am blasted basically because I am anti-establishment. Not because I am lying because I don't lie. I tell nothing but the truth using ficitional characters that I sometimes create on impulse.

If you guys want to keep fighting me, I will keep fighting you. I was unwilling to go backwards and dig into the history of the Napergate Blog Site. Now I am willing so if you make allegations be ready to back them up if you don't want me to rip your credibility apart as I have just shredded John Q. Public's credibility and reputation. He has been misinforming you since he joined the cult of stooges.

Show me where I lied once. Using fictional characters is not lying. It is simply using fictional characters. We are all fictional characters. Many of you have changed your characters quite a few times.

Who are you? God, to say you can change your moniker 5 times but not 40 times. You are not God. You are not the Moderator. You are nothing but a bunch of cry baby whiners who can not debate the issues in a message. You want to fight the messenger because you can not debate the factual message. Your game has been exposed. You are all a bunch of losers....low lifes who attack messengers who are telling the truth about government waste and high taxes.

Like I said, 1000 of you punks will not be right because you parakeet each other. Provide facts that dispute my facts. Show me you have the least bit of intellect.

If you can't, stop running your diarrhea mouths. They serve absolutely no purpose. Go for a swim today and cleanse your bodies and souls.

John Q. Public will have to eat crow today. He challenged me to find any character besides Kevin that supported my positions. In minutes I found at least 10 on just one thread and that does not include Barbie Doll Cultist Ken who viciously cussed on the police since I consider him against me on most postions. I just wanted ot point Ken out since bloggers may think it was one of my characters who was cussing. My characters were very well behaved, mannered and watched their libel.

In an hour I can find dozens of others who supported my positions. In a day of research I can find hundreds. Unfortunately, the style you bozos adopted have chased most former bloggers away. Why would anyone want to debate a blogger who will only attack the messenger and not the message???

You punks have destroyed this blog site. You have chased many former bloggers away. I hope the Moderator has a chat with you folks during Kindergarten Class. It is undisputed that I do not chase you on the threads you blog on. You come and chase me on the one thread I am blogging on. This is as clear as black is black and white is white.

I am sorry but you are all convicted for being fakes or frauds who lie or deceive blatantly as to who starts this nonsense. There is no room for this nonsense. Grow up! It is time to graduate out of Kindergarten.

Thank you!

Since you folks think I was the only character on the Napergate Threads, I will begin posting an assortment that were not me. I don't like to dig into history, but since you folks like to dig into history, let us go there. I posted one from hypocrit Ken attacking the NPD. Maybe it is time to outst, John Q. Public's credibility since he challenged me to do this and find characters that were not mine.

Here is another one that is not ME.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By mr. quigley on March 13, 2008 8:40 AM
No change will ever occurr in NPD,until federal investigation cleans house. Dave Dial is the front man for illegals to acquire driving certificates. See his column in the SUN,maybe a reprint is needed to remind all the bloggers.The NPD is one of the most corrupt pd's I have encountered in 30 years of working to reign in police misconduct and criminal behavior.There are many,many reasons the federal government has assembled the largest task force in Chicagoland.The feds know of the problems we face in exposing criminal police conduct.You can help reform NPD,join C.O.N.P.A.(citizens observing naperville police activities),we use a 815 number to intake calls from citizens with legitimate complaints about NPD behavior. The MORE citizens unite,and speak in one voice to the doj/fbi the sooner this problem can be addressed.Crooked cops depend on the silence of 'good' citizens to continue to operate outside the law.Many good people remain quiet and/or afraid to speak out fearing retribution.We have never had this level of federal support to address this problem,now we do,how will you respond??C.O.N.P.A. 815-242-0019 call for more info or to submit YOUR story.Thank you and we look forward to hearing your story.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is possibly why you guys think I libeled. I would never call the police criminal. I am way more educated that this person or Ken.

By Fred on June 19, 2009 9:56 PM

Taxes, you mentioned that since Chris asked, you are sticking to one moniker, yet he has asked you countless times ,as did Jim and Ted before him, to stop turning every thread into a sounding board for your own personal cause/vendetta, yet you still insist on commandeering the site

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fred,
You sound like a parot to. Repeating what others say. I am not turning every thread into a sounding board. That is an outright lie and you know it.

There are 9 other threads on the Main Page and I am not blogging on any of them. I am not blogging on the hundreds of archived threads. People are free to blog on the other 9 threads and say what they wish. I see many of my antagonists blogging there and I leave them alone even when I disagree with them. I choose not to blog on most threads to avoid the allegations of hijacking which are ridiculous. To avoid unnecessary confrontations. If I have nothing to say about the message, I have nothing to say about the messenger. I am much more mature than the average silly blogger who is here to play games and stir trouble.

Others come here on this thread for no other reason but to attack me. That is the only reason they come here. I really don't care if I am outnumbered 1000-1 because I feel I have done nothing wrong. I am dealing with parakeets repeating each other and making false and unsubtantiated allegations.

You don't win with sheer numbers. You win with truth. You win with facts. Yes, I did an intensive study of the Napergate Man. Yes, I was the fictional Ameena who ACTUALLY went to the library and researched the Napergate Man for a few weeks to really get a handle on the Napergate Era.

I can tell from early editions of the Sun in that Napergate Era that at one point the whole town was against the NGM. He was considered not credible because of the sheer number of people that believed the city over him. People began repeating each other like parots and parakeets just like they are now. No difference. People are repeating lies and spreading propaganda on this blog site just like in newsprint during that era.

In the end, you all know the Napergate Man proved everyone wrong. He proved he was telling the truth. When he had his day in court, he pulled out his video and showed the Judge and Jury, that City Officals were lying and spreading rumors about him. They and all their tens of thousands of believers had to eat crow. He separated the taxpayers from their wallets probably for a very large unknown sum. They deserved it because they believed the propaganda coming out of City Hall. They chose not to question their elected or unelected officials. We need to learn from those mistakes and question our elected and unelected officials at every opportunity we have.

You are making false allegations, Fred, based on the bolony you read from the punks and stooges on this blog site. They lie and you repeat their lies. What credibility do you and the others have?
Absolutely none! Sadly none of you are even independent thinkers.

You are now falsely accusing me of COMMANDEERING THE SITE. Not just a thread but the entire BLOG SITE. I have never seen so many loose screws and bearings on one blog site. Commandeering the site?!?! At least you are not accusing me of hijacking a plane. Get real, buddy! Are you hallucinating? Do you smoke dope?

I have been blogging on this one thread from Day One because I did not want to see public officials get any more special benefits since they get quite a few of them already which I have named over and over again. No need to name them again and anger you.

This specific thread would be dead as any other thread usually is dead after the first week or 10 days. I am capable of obviously keeping a thread alive and entertaining. You call that HIJACKING.
Get serious!

Seven months later bloggers want to attack me for using fictional characters which was not against any rules. According to the rules I am allowed to use them if I want right now and will exercise my option whenever I feel like it without disclosing to anyone in advance. I don't have to disclose anything to the Moderator as he can track anything down from my IP number. He always knows what is going on.

Anyway, Fred all I can say is try to be an independent thinker. Don't repeat what others say. Do research! I did a lot of research on the Napergate Man before attempting to tell his interesting story. And I have little doubt I told it much better by using a multitude of fictional characters instead of one. I have no regrets about telling his story in the way I did. I had a lot of fun researching and telling his story. It was very educational for me and hopefully it was educational for some newcomers to town who were not around in the Napergate Era when corruption was more rampant than it is today.

Obviously his story must have had a great impact on this Blog Site as no one can let it go. I let it go and moved to other topics like Furstenau, Pensions, Salaries, Double Dipping, the Pet Shop Owner, Zoning, Religion, International Politics, etc. etc. Anytime somebody spots me they bring up Napergate despite the facts I have discussed dozens and dozens of other topics in depth on the Blog Site. Why?

Even while attacking me personally they bring up Napergate. What does Napergate have to do with me? It is simply one story I told. I told the story of Barack Hussein Obama. What is the big deal about telling a non-fiction story? I told all my stories truthfully and accurately. I did not have to make them exciting. They already were and that is why I chose them.

Apparently Napergate just brings bad memories to City Officials who are blogging with us anonymously. It reminds them of the huge financial losses they sustainted in that 10 year epic legal battle. It reminds them of the records that disappeared regarding the Napergate Trials. I did not make this up. I read at the library in the Naperville Sun that Editor Tim West demanded them and he was told they do not exist. Ask Tim West if you don't believe me. He is not a fictional character. What do I have to gain by lying? Nothing, thus I would not lie. You always want sources and I give you my sources but you never contact them. You just make false unsubstantiated allegations against me. The Moderator could easily contact Mr. West to see if I am telling the truth or not. I find some of this stuff as hard to beleive as you folks. But it is really true. The City of Naperville discarded the legal costs of the 10 year Napergate Trials. Gone, and no one knows where they are! No one knows what these trials cost us. No one knows how these costs may have affected our current real estate bills.

Of course CM Bob does not want to talk Napergate. It is my belief City Officials made a financial deal to silence the Napergate Man. And I am sure the Napergate Man in his infinite wisdom, would have never agreed to such a deal unless City Officials also agreed to be silenced. That is what I believe happened. It is simply a belief based on common sense, logic and reason. No proof! Sorry folks.

So basically CM Bob probably is muzzled just like every City Official is on discussion of Napergate Case. If you follow the Furstenau Case, negotiations fell apart because the city wanted to muzzle Furstenau without muzzling themselves. I don't know what happened to those negotiations. I have not heard from anyone or researched anything....yet!

But I suspect in the end both parties will agree to never discuss the case. Furstenau will not have the power the Napergate Man had. He unfortunately did not win in court even though he deserved to win. But the Napergate Man won battle after battle, appeal after appeal, and had a lot of power to negotiate a deal before his case went to the Supreme Courts of both Illinios and the USA. The city knew the chance of a reversal in either Supreme Court was close to zero. So they surrendered and settled.

Anyway that is why CM Bob does not want to discusse the Napergate Case. He most probably is not allowed to, due to a negotiated settlement. Do I know this for a fact? Of course not! But it is my calculated opinion based on deductive reasoning and logic.

Thank you.

What more do you want from him or her?

Well for one, stop turning every topic into a rant about city pensions. Just as he/she/it turned every topic into a Napergate thread before he/she/it got outed.

Taxes, you mentioned that since Chris asked, you are sticking to one moniker, yet he has asked you countless times ,as did Jim and Ted before him, to stop turning every thread into a sounding board for your own personal cause/vendetta, yet you still insist on commandeering the site. What is up with that Dude/Dudette? Why not try to abide by all rules and stick to the topic at hand. I think you will find everyone will go back to ignoring you as before. Except Outlaw, he seems to have a soft spot. Oh wait, Chris, please check Outlaw's IP. I bet it is Taxes trying to defend herself again.

To Outlaw or perhaps Taxes,

The problem I constantly see with Taxes is you/he/she may at one time apologize for an action, but then continue to defend at least a portion of the action, which pretty much negates any previous disingenuous apology. Obviously, you/taxes will never understand the fictionalized character debate because it is beyond his/her level of moral or emotional reasoning.

"What more do you want from him or her? Spell it out. Is this not an old story? Why is it suddenly on the front pages again?"

Frankly, I don't want anything more from Taxes and truly wish that the remaining bloggers would simply quit engaging you/her/him. I am sick of reading the immature attacks; name-calling, denials, justifications and I also believe that Taxes has ruined her/his own credibility. She/he does not have the unlimited amount of self restraint required to ever earn back the trust of others on this site. It would require that she/he refrain from belittling other's opinions when in disagreement with her/him. In other words, a level of tolerance not yet demonstrated. Your/her/his message is destroyed by the messenger.

I implore other bloggers to give it a rest, take a sabbatical, refuse to engage, just ignore Taxes and any other obvious pseudonyms.

Is the Moderator presenting such boring threads that you all have time to be upset or obsessed with one individual who uses fictional characters to promote his or her causes? He or she admitted using fictional characters and apologized for it. What more do you want from him or her? Spell it out. Is this not an old story? Why is it suddenly on the front pages again?

By Ken on February 27, 2008 9:04 AM
I don't know why anyone would be shocked by illegal police activity in this day and age. The only difference between gangs and cops is that the cops wear nicer uniforms and are legally allowed to carry guns.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken,
This is your post on the Napergate Tread. The way you attacked the police bloggers may have erroneously thought you were part of this Napergate Cult when blogging about that fateful evening in downtown Naperville as described by Host Ted. How dare you call the cops a bunch of gangsters. I would never dare call them a bunch of gangsters. THAT I do not believe is SUEABLE but I am not 100% sure since you are right on the line in the sand, Ken! Watch it, buddy. Check with Barbie before you run your mouth. Research the libel laws as I have for years before you continue to run your mouth.

I simply questioned their use of professional courtesy towards the Napergate Man. Outside of that one incident and maybe the handling of the Furstenau Case, I really don't have a lot of issues with the Naperville Cops. They are much better than most suburban police depts but that does not mean they deserve a Big Fat Pension at age 52 which the taxpayers can not afford. That is also my issue with all city, state and US government employees. I have no hatred for cops. Most cops are superb human beings. So are engineers. So are nurses. But none of them deserve a Big Fat Pension at my expense. What don't you bloggers understand? Seriously! Now you are threatening me with lawsuits....lol....you guys are really as ignorant as they can possible make them in a womb.

While I had many characters blogging, I was by no means all the characters. There were quite a few others besides ME both for and against the way the police handled the Napergate Man.

While blogging on the Furstenau Threads, there were quite a few people besides me in support of Furstenau. Over 10,000 residents voted for Furstenau. Over a 100 people came to support him before the City Council.

While blogging in support of the Pet Shop owner many people supported him besides my characters. No one cared that I was using multi-characters to support the Pet Shop owner because apparently it did not involve Big Fat Pensions. This is proof that this is all about certain people thinking they are entilted to Big Fat Pensions at taxpayer expense.

Kevin, not the above mentioned Ken, a real Napergatian for one was also blogging on the Napergate Threads. I have no time to read the entire non-fiction novel and go over the whole blog site to disclose other bloggers who were not me....but there were quite a few.....in the hundreds if not the thousands. We had a good thing going before the gang of cultists hijacked this ENTIRE blog site and now are attempting to ruin it.

This blog site was in desperate need of the help of my numerous characters to get it rolling in the early stages. It was dead as can be. I more than anyone was the catalyst that infused energy into this blog site. I more than anyone, at the expense of sounding egotistical, contributed to making it the most successful blog site in Chicagoland. One of my hidden agendas was to make sure this blog site became successful. I believe I accomplished that goal, of course, at the expense of losing all my fictional and beloved characters....lol...

Even Moderator Jim Lynch and Host Ted Slovick were blogging rather intensively on that Napergate Thread and giving their opinions about the situation. Many times they would both issue comments to the same blogger. They were extremely active causing many many bloggers to join the debate. Bloggers enjoy blogging with the Moderator and Host more than with each other....it is like a badge of honor for some bloggers who conider the Moderator a celebrity of sorts. They were also very actively involved in the early stages to in order to get this blog site to a successful take off. Do you bloggers think a blog site becomes happening over night? It takes a lot of work to achieve the status it once achieved before the cultists began hijacking thread after thread in an attempt to personally attack ME while unintentionally destroying this great blog site that many of us worked so hard to build. Yes, ME, MYSELF and I included. That means plural. Eat your livers if you already at your hearts out.

It seems you go with the flow of the parots, Ken.

I always thought you were a brainless and a mindless sheep following the latest popular shephard.

I guess you have now felt insecure and decided to go back to Mommy Experienced for your new bottle with colorful stooge characters on it.

Show some spine, Ken. Don't be spineless. Have some principles and beliefs. Don't flow whichever way the wind blows.

Stick with your beliefs and be a MAN instead of a wimp following stooges around.

No one told any lies. Expressing an opinion as to whether one feels the police handled the Napergate Man appropriately or inappropriately has nothing to do with lying. It is simply an opinion. It is not a sueable action. It is not what lawsuits are based on.

The Napergate Thread was a nice, insightful and enlightening debate about basically PROFESSIONAL COURTESY issued to the police by some and not issued to others. Professional Courtesy amounts to favoritism. It is an abuse of the power of discretion granted to our sworn police officers. It is abhorrent and reprehensible.

If the police department wants to sue me for exposing that they practice PROFESSIONAL COURTESY, let them step forward.

I will rip them apart for a financial settlement 10 times what the Napergate Man ripped them apart for. If they had any thoughts of sueing me for MY FREE OPINIONS, why did they let the 1 year statute of limitations for libel expire on them? It just shows you how small minded and ignorant most bloggers are. The police are Big Boys and Girls and are use to criticism. It does not even phase them. What phases them is the possibility of losing their Big Fat Pensions that they are suppose to get at age 52. What phases them is having the pensions reduced from 75% to 50% of their final salary. What phases them is a law that would outlaw DOUBLE DIPPING.

Even Mrs. the Police Officer finally came on and admitted that Professional Courtesy does exist in the NPD. I was not her. Later after making this CONFESSION, she was silenced by the Naperville Police Dept. That is only my OPINION. I have no hard rock solid core evidence. So please hold your attacks on lying! Being wrong is not lying. Being wrong more than once does not constitute a liar.

Your Kindergarten Teacher, Mr. Chris Magee may have to teach you that wrong and lying are 2 different words. While he is teaching you, please don't ask for your bottles. Wait till you get home and ask your Mommies for your bottles and please don't whine and cry if the fictional cartoon characters are not on them. You can not always get what you ask for even if you have temper tantrums. Mr. Magee has his hands full with you kids. May God help him get through the upcoming school year.

Thank you!

Taxes,

Your memory is not as good as you say, apparently. I promised to lay off your multi-personality past only on the condition that you not continue to mischaracterize it. That was my promise. Unfortunately for you, you still insist on passing it off as some minor peccadillo. So I will continue to hold it up as lamp which illuminates your character. I have remained true to my word. I have never once deliberately told an untruth in any of my Potluck posts. You cannot honestly say the same. The only thing that has changed in recent months is that I finally got fed up with your underhanded "debate" tactics.

-JQP

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 19, 2009 2:29 PM

What kind of kool-aid did Experience use to spike your drinks? Next, he will arrange a trip for you folks to Jonestown and have you sing with the parots in South America before he issues you the fatal and final dosage of his specially prepared kool-aid. Consider this a WARNING!

--------------------------

Peanut Brain

You are still watching way too much O'Reilly. How many times do I have to tell you that they used Flavor Aid at Jonestown which is made right here in DuPage County. You got to be faithful to local brands.

Still not too fond of you

Experienced

By Gaius Julius Ceasar (not really! it's a sham!) on June 19, 2009 7:05 AM
Taxes,

If you want anyone here to take you seriously in the future, I would strongly recommend attempting to mend fences.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Julius Genious,

I don't know if you are a new blogger or another hypocrit who just changed his handle. I suspect the latter. I would put money in Vegas that you are either Keyboard Rambo or Fed Up with His Own Noise as I see a similarity in writing style.

Getting to your point. I did try to mend fences. I adopted the recommendations of my foes and adversaries.

I presented numerous facts and sources for my facts.

All the bloggers including yourself refuse to discuss or debate the real issues that I raise in my posts.

All you guys want to to is wrestle in the mud.

I am a trader. It can be boring after doing it for 30 years. So I don't mind wrestling in the mud while I trade Pfizer, Alcoa, and Best Buy.

I am making the same amount of money whether I have fun blogging or don't. I am having fun blogging.

It seems like everyone is about ready to get a heart attack blogging. I say to everyone CHILL OUT!

Get a life. Multi task while you blog so you don't go INSANE.

(If you are a City Employee, please don't blog while taxpayers are footing your bill.)

Some of you seem to already have lost your SANITY.

My heart honestly goes out to all you folks who have been torn apart due to the use of my fictional characters. I reiterate that I used them proudly and I am sorry that they penetrated your thin skins so extensively.

My fictional characters succeeded in sending a message that rings very loud on this blog site with readers, with Sun Staff and possibly in many parts Naperville including City Hall.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT!

Funny how Sybil proclaims it never told any lies, when posting as the whole napergate cult was obviously one big lie. Sybil proves that the nice thing about being delusional is that you only have to believe yourself.

By John Q. Public on June 19, 2009 10:32 AM
Anonymous ONE wrote:

I love a good structured and cogent debate, I just think that what this person has done is beyond the intended purpose of this site.

I agree. Moreover, it is impossible to have a cogent debate with Taxes

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Public,

It is impossible to have a cogent debate with me simply because you don't want to have a cogent debate. Simply because you choose to act like a child and dwell on your last bottle even though your Mommy found you a new one. You are getting your formula so who cares if you lost your last bottle. Who cares if it had cartoon characters on it and your new bottle has the picture of Mommy Experience on it? Does it really matter as long as the formula is fresh, tasteful and nourishing? So try to get over your temper tantrum. Do you realize, it has been 7 months since you started it, Mr. Public.

You and many others lied on this blog site. Your initial demand was that I just use one handle and let us debate. Once I adopted your recommendations to use one handle per thread(even went beyond that and I am using one handle for multi-threads) you failed to honor your promise, Mr. Public. You reneged on your promise. You decided to join the cult of stooges instead of being a man of your word.

You destroyed both your credibility and reputation. You can not even honor a word out of your mouth. That is dishonorable. You have relegated yourself to the status of wimp...not a respectable man.

I moved forward as you suggested but you choose to continue beating a dead horse.

Let me ask you where has beating a dead horse got you...

Do you know?

Nowhere, so why keep beating the dead horse?

All you are doing is getting maggots all over you. Get away from the dead horse. Those maggots will do more than simply take away your credibility, reputation and MONSTROUS EGO. They will eat you up alive, John Q. Public. You are letting them eat away at you day by day. They are eating at your insides and destorying you. You were once a man of impeccable charater...a gentleman in scholar until you decided to join a bunch of thugs running an internet gang.

The only person who has shown any maturity on this blog site is the Moderator. He pointed out my multi-characters, did not say they were illegal or a violation of the blog rules and simply moved forward to more interesting topics.

He is able to move forward. Why is no one else able to move forward? What kind of kool-aid did Experience use to spike your drinks? Next, he will arrange a trip for you folks to Jonestown and have you sing with the parots in South America before he issues you the fatal and final dosage of his specially prepared kool-aid. Consider this a WARNING!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. John, do you know the diference between past, present and future? Honestly! Do you live in the present or the past?

Anonymous ONE wrote:

I love a good structured and cogent debate, I just think that what this person has done is beyond the intended purpose of this site.

I agree. Moreover, it is impossible to have a cogent debate with Taxes. I'd bet that a majority of the bloggers who regularly post here are at least somewhat favorable to the idea of revising or even eliminating public employee pensions, but Taxes' underhanded tactics and overblown style has turned many of them off.

Wow, that is unbelievable that someone goes to such lengths to have hundreds of characters and justified it. This is a case of some serious mental health concerns. Taxes, you are about as powerful as the mud on my shoes, you have be exposed for the fraud that you are.

I also looked at past threads and the things that you have said and used peoples first and last names should be enough for some legal trouble for you down the road.

Taxes,
I'm sure this won't make any sense to you, but it's worth a try. On an anonymous blog site like this, the ONLY asset that someone can really have is a reputation. A logical argument is also useful. The problem is that you have really damaged your reputation here to the point where all the regular readers of this site now assume, with some justification, that you are either making things up, or that you are fabricating things outright. Surely you must see that?
Your positions are not helped in any way by your recent lashing out at people. That really undoes any argument you're trying to make. As was noted above, you're not getting the idea of fiction. Blogging as a police officer [admittedly, some time ago] was not fiction, as you want to put it, but was an outright deception. I'm sure you can grasp that this was one of the things that causes other readers here to assume that when you talk about meeting someone in some other field that there is a better than average chance that you may be making it up.
Again, reputation. We've learned that you cannot necessarily be trusted, and that causes everyone to read your posts far more carefully and to have at you when the details you mention don't seem quite right. Instead of lashing out and talking about formula and baby bottles, which only further damages your credibility, it's worth considering leaving off, restating your actual position on the subject at hand, and letting it go.
As you've pointed out, there is no rule about shifting nicknames from thread to thread, though it is a somewhat strange habit, The problem in all of this lies in the area of, dare I say it again? Reputation.
Yours is damaged, perhaps beyond repair. If you want anyone here to take you seriously in the future, I would strongly recommend attempting to mend fences, not to attack those who are pointing out the things that you've done in the past that affect this reputation.
I realize that this is unlikely, and that you'll probably attack me for even suggesting it, but consider the option and the idea, would you? You're clearly going to continue posting here and if you want those posts to be taken seriously and not immediately dismissed, you're really going to have to do some work to fix the problems that have been caused in the past.

Moderator, I would like to thank you for your work on this site. It can't be easy, and is probably a bit annoying at times, and I suspect that it falls in the area of 'other duties as assigned'. So thank you.

Gaius Julius Ceasar (not really! it's a sham!)

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 19, 2009 1:45 AM

Act like men instead of children reading Harry Potterfield.

--------------------------------

I like Harry Porterfield. When I was growing up, he was one of the few visible examples that you didn't have to be a W.A.S.P. male to succeed. Many years ago I saw him walking in the Loop late one evening and thanked him for being a great role model.

I can take or leave Harry Potter. Reading your postings is like reading Harry Potter--both fiction.

Not so fond of you

Experienced

By Anonymous ONE on June 18, 2009 11:27 AM
I think this has more than run its course -

I apologize to the other bloggers and Chris for continuing this pursuit, I just think that when someone goes to such an extreme they need to be exposed for their actions. It's apparent that logic will not make him go away so I'll stop with the posts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anonymous ONE,

You kept your promise to stop with the posts for 12 hours and 11 minutes. I predicted your word is worthless. YOU PROVED ME RIGHT.

BTW, I am not starting these nasty exchanges. I am just responding to them as usual. You guys are clearly the trouble makers looking for trouble.....and you are getting more than you can chew on.

Keeping eating crow day and night....get some lives....do something worthwhile. Adopt a good cause as I have.....

City Officials masquerading as Fictional Bloggers,

Chris ousted me out last year. I apologized and moved forward.
You asked that I use one handle. I am using one handle as you requested.

So what really is the purpose of rehashing an old story and wasting the Moderator's time. Speaking of time who is reviewing old blogs that are obsolete. And even reposting them. Not ME!

I am a little surprised he continues to let you post about ME while I am trying to discuss government waste and high taxes.

The bottom line I always told the truth but used fictional characters to tell the truth. I never intentionally or even unintentionally lied to the best of my recollection and knowledge about issues concerning City Hall or Big Fat Salaries and Pensions.

What disturbs you is my message about City Hall.

You don't seem as disturbed that I played Barak Hussein Obama since that did not effect your Big Fat Pensions. You are only disturbed when I am outing your fat salaries, fat pensions and double dipping.

Get over yourselves and egos. Grow up!

Act like men instead of children reading Harry Potterfield.

Experienced on June 18, 2009 6:52 PM
John Q. Public on June 18, 2009 7:57 PM
Gaius Julius Ceasar (not really! it's a sham!) on June 18, 2009 7:59 PM
Anonymous on June 18, 2009 9:02 PM

-------------------

I think everyone suspected that Taxes was deceptive, but the archive of the Napergate threads is truly a creepy read isn't it? You can click on any of them, and once you realize that 80% of the bloggers are this same guy it becomes really weird. The constant banter back and forth between characters, the pumping up of himself supposedly by others, and the lovefest toward the Napergate man are why I have been posting so frequently. It's not right. His claim is that it happened once, he apologized, and now is moving forward - unfortunately it's not that easy - as the archive's prove.

His responses are all textbook. First he cites the rules that you can blog under any name you want. Then he claims to be singlehandedly helping the Sun with this blog by posting and keeping the site active - as if Chris is paid per blog (your not are you Chris?). Then he lashes out at everyone involved, ex.( "Why don't you get your formula bottles and Baby Gerber Food ready and try to be a good Mommy to Anonymous One?"). His last response is usually a rehashing of everything he claims is wrong with Naperville (pensions being the prime target) and how he is the only one who seems to care. After this he tends to leave that particular thread and hijacks another. We could have a topic titled, "Isn't it nice to sit in the grass and listed to the Carillon music" and this person would begin posting that we should be outraged that the grass is watered and mowed by city workers who will be getting BIG FAT PENSIONS - I'm fed up with it.

I'm not so sure that when this person blogged as "police officer" he didn't actually think he was a real cop. I also find it interesting why he chose so many female names to use (Freud would probably have something to say). It's also funny that he claims to be fighting the city for the past 2 1/2 years - but from all accounts he hasn't affected one change. In fact if you read Council man Bob's postings he says that he skips over anything that discusses Napergate or the Napergate man.

Yes it has become a bit of a game, and I sometimes wonder if this person, shall we say, has a lot of time on his hands? I love a good structured and cogent debate, I just think that what this person has done is beyond the intended purpose of this site.

Experienced,

I didn't realized I was posting a link to the same thread as Anonymous ONE. Sorry about that. There are quite a few other threads where you can see our friend spinning his multi-personality web, though. As long as the Napergate man unmasked thread is, there is another that has more than twice as many posts, believe it or not.

-JQP

and Taxes finally spins fully out of control!

I am getting more reviews on this Blog Site on my novel than I oculd get in the Oprah Book Review Club.

Keep it up guys, this is going to be a Best Seller.

I already dumped you Experienced as you are a Bad Mother who can not bring the formula quick enough to your babies so they can stop whining and crying.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 18, 2009 8:11 PM

If there is nothing wrong with fictionalizing an engineer, there is nothing wrong with fictionalizing a police officer.

----------------------------

If one is telling a fictional story for the entertainment of his/her audience, there is nothing wrong with assuming the persona of an engineer or a police officer because the audience understands that the statements being made by the persona are not necessary meant to be factual but could be for entertainment.

Now, if the topic on a blog site is, say for example, why a porch collapsed and whether the city building inspectors should have discovered the reason prior to collapse, it is unethical for one to assume the false persona of an engineer and offer an opinion on the cause of the collapse. Said person is trying to persuade the readers that the reason for the collapse is as s/he says, and the fact that s/he is an engineer lends greater weight to that person's position. The readers believe that if the person is an engineer, they must know what they are talking about.

The same is true for assuming the persona of a police officer when the question being discussed concerns the action of a police officer. I skimmed the thread posted by Anonymous One down to your posting as "Police Officer". You were not trying to entertain as one would in a piece of fiction. You were trying to persuade the readers that your position on the subject was correct because you were, indeed, a member of the profession. And, you were successful. Joe asked you a professional question within two postings - although he also smelled a rat and asked for your dept. Andrew thanked you for your insight. Amy relying on your "professional position" threw it up in Joe's face. Etc.

You purposely deceived the readers to make your point. It is no wonder that those who were posting at the time tell you that your credibility is shot. If I were Joe (I believe that he is now known as Original Joe), I would too.

In my profession there are people who go to court as "expert or opinion witnesses". Normally, witnesses can only relate the facts but cannot give opinions thereon. Experts who prove they have special knowledge of the field, however, are allowed to offer both facts and opinions on the facts to the jury. Before they do so, they must tell why they should be able to give their opinions and why those opinions should be accepted by the triers of fact. You, in a sense, were trying to get the readers to accept your opinion as true because you were an expert in the field. That was an unethical deception.

I had previously only thought that you were sloppy in the facts supporting your positions because you were a lay person. You were comical but I didn't think you were malicious. I didn't think you were a person who would adopt a win at any cost outlook and try to deceive others to do so. If you would own up to the fact that it was an unethical act of deception to poise as a police officer within a thread discussing police behavior, it would be "water over the bridge" as you have said. But, you still see nothing wrong with what you did.

The love affair is over

Experienced

Experiencened,

Why don't you get your formula bottles and Baby Gerber Food ready and try to be a good Mommy to Anonymous One?

If there is nothing wrong with fictionalizing an engineer, there is nothing wrong with fictionalizing a police officer.

A police officer is not above the law that he can not be fictionalized on a blog site, a novel or in a movie. A fictional police officer should be able to express his opinions and views. Police officers need to be held accountable like any other profession when committing a wrong.(To the best of my knowledge the only person who is not allowed to be fictionalized is the Prophet Muhammad. And I am with the Europeans here and against the Muslims and believe they should be able to fictionalize him if they want as long as they don't slander or libel him.) Let us not elevate police officers to the level of the Prophet Muhammed. I don't think they want to be sacred even though they still want their Big Fat Pensions.

As far as you Experienced, you are probably a lawyer for the City of Naperville fictionalizing the character of a private forensic accountant.

You are defending your Big Fat Pension while pretending to be a neutral private forensic accountant who has no interest in that matter. Who are you trying to kid, Mommy?

If you are a man provide your place of work. Show us you are a private citizen not receiving a Big Fat Pension. Are you paranoid your own children are going to locate you and bring harm to you? You could not possibly be worried about your one enemy, a "peanut brain." So why are you a wimp protecting your identity. No one is against you. What do you fear?

I have never met such a large group of hypocrits in my life.

You are just like TB until I waterboarded him and he confessed 2 members of his immediate family were receiving or eligible to receive these Big Fat Pensions. And he acted like an unbiased character for over a month feeding us his rotten bolony.

What all you stooges need is a good waterboarding session.

First, we will find almost all of you have all changed your handles over time.

Second, we will find you are all masquerading as private citizens while being eligible for these Big Fat Pensions.

Imagine all you people in dire support of Big Fat Pensions and no one has had the courage to say "I am receiving one."

Your day and night defense of pension benefits that are not yours is not logical or reasonable.

By deductive reasoning one can easily conclude you are all phonies.

Time to prepare your forumla and baby food, Mommy. A bunch of whining cry babies like I have never seen before in my life.

The former moderator posted an interesting list in the Roland Burris thread a few months ago. Caroline was the most commonly used nickname of the one who is now Taxes. This is basically a listing of the OTHER nicknames Taxes was using at that point in time. Speaking of time, note the small amount of it involved. The first part is 17 days long, the second part, 3.
The only reason the Taxes stopped doing this so openly is that he/she/it/rabbit hat was caught openly. So, foor those who are just now playing along, Gaius Julius Caesar (not really! it's a sham!) suggests that you read all these defenses with a grain of salt (preferably the size of an asteroid).

Here are some people who posted from the same IP address as Caroline starting Dec. 21, 2007 through Jan. 7, 2008:
Caroline: 75.57.78.149 also 75.57.135.34
Debbie: 75.57.135.34
Liebert/Lierbert: 75.57.135.34
Huntington Estates Resident: 75.57.135.34
Marybeth: 75.57.135.34
Maryann: 75.57.135.34
Adam: 75.57.135.34
Marshall: 75.57.135.34
Robert: 75.57.135.34
Cindy: 75.57.135.34
Jessica: 75.57.135.34
Dor: 75.57.135.34
Blake: 75.57.135.34
James: 75.57.135.34
Ameena: 75.57.135.34
Martha: 75.57.135.34
Concerned Taxpayer: 75.57.135.34
Elizabeth: 75.57.135.34
Marilyn: 75.57.135.34
Jackson: 75.57.135.34
Randy: 75.57.135.34
Walter J.: 75.57.135.34
Huntington Estates Lady: 75.57.135.34
Confused in Naperville: 75.57.135.34
McFarland: 75.57.135.34
Sandy: 75.57.135.34
June: 75.57.135.34
Jenny: 75.57.135.34
Terri: 75.57.135.34
Eric: 75.57.135.34
Melissa: 75.57.135.34

Here are some that match Caroline from Feb. 5-7, 2008
Caroline: 75.57.118.163
Becky: 75.57.118.163
Beilen: 75.57.118.163
Scott: 75.57.118.163
Lucas: 75.57.118.163
Nikki: 75.57.118.163
Marshall: 75.57.118.163
Marybeth: 75.57.118.163
Rachel: 75.57.118.163
Deanna: 75.57.118.163
Vicky: 75.57.118.163
Police Officer: 75.57.118.163
Todd: 75.57.118.163
Sharon: 75.57.118.163
Kathleen: 75.57.118.163
Randy: 75.57.118.163
Patricia: 75.57.118.163
Victoria: 75.57.118.163
Ameena: 75.57.118.163

Here are some more recent examples:
Howard: 75.57.130.178
Anonymous: 75.57.130.178
Diana: 75.57.130.178
Barack: 75.57.130.178
Barack: 75.57.81.237
Downtown Rents are High but still Subsidized: 75.57.81.237

I think I've made my point.

Experienced,

You don't know the half of it. You apparently didn't frequent Potluck when Napergate was all the rage. Check out some of the threads in that category (check the Categories list on the right side of the main Potluck page). Here's just one example: Napergate man unmasked. As you read through the thread, keep in mind that most if not all of the posts that praise the Napergate Man and/or criticize the NPD and/or express agreement with these posts were made by our friend here under dozens of different aliases. It goes way, way beyond just changing his handle from time to time.

-JQP

Anonymous ONE on June 18, 2009 11:27 AM

I always thought that you guys were a tad bit overboard on Peanut Brain. But, now I understand. It's one thing for someone to have multiple screen names. It's a little worse to have them talking to each other. But, it's really scudzie to have one of your screen names offering professional positions as a police officer--even for Peanut Brain!

Did the STNG suspend him for a period of time?

By Anonymous ONE on June 18, 2009 8:02 AM
Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 18, 2009 1:08 AM

Your handle is nowhere to be found in the first year of blogging

------------------

You didn't go back and do a search did you Taxes? That's something you said you never do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not say I never did it. That is a lie. I said I did it once when I reviewed the pension blog of August because the name Gary Menconi who I found on the net led me to that blog. Since you see no difference between being wrong and lying one can conclude you may be a liar. Do you see how stupid your logic is Anonymous One?

I have a rather good memory. Not perfect. I do not recall your handle popping up in the first year and yet you are blogging about the first year. You told a blogger you have no time to research as I do not have time to research. Thus if you are familiar with the first year and you do not have time for research you were blogging with us under another handle. This proves your are a HYPOCRIT of the umpteenth degree. Too bad the Moderator chooses not to oust you and show your degree of hypocrisy! Consider yourself lucky!

Why don't you show your MANHOOD and admit you blogged under another handle and reveal your hypocrisy? Do I have to waterboard you like I waterboard TB to get you to confess? As you know TB was defending Big Fat Pensions for over a month until he finally confessed that both his brother and father will be or are receiving Big Fat Pensions.

The information I posted was from a police officer. A real police officer. I used a fictional handle to disclose what he told me. Why would I not want to protect his identity as I protect the identities of many others I blogged up using fictional characters? It is inappropriate to disclose private conversations to the press without the consent of both parties.

If you review what I said police officer said, there is nothing untrue. It is all accurate and truthful.

Ask most police officers and they will tell you they will act in this same appropriate manner. Police officer have plenty of discretions and do exercise their discretion often to make situations more tolerable when the solution calls for it.

Again, Anonymous One, you are clueless about the use of fictional characters even though you are blogging as a fictional character.....maybe in your case you are blogging as a stooge. When I blog as a fictional character, I don't have to be myself. I can be anyone I choose to be.

I was Barack Hussein Obama and it was a lot of fun. The moderator passed a rule after that stating he did not want anyone being a live known person. I followed his rules. I believe you are allowed to blog as George Washington or Abraham Linclon if you so choose. Are you a fraud and a liar if you decide to play George Washington and pass his views on this blog site? Only in the figment of your immature imagination, Anonymous One.

I can not pretend to be Chief David Dial and never would as the chance he may blog with us exists plus it would violate the new rules of the blog site. And it is unethical and inappropriate.

However, if I want to get into the mind of a police officer and blog as a fictional police officer I see no harm in that. Actors play police officers in movies, get in their minds and they are not police officers. They are playing police officers. Sometimes to promote a good message and sometimes just to show police officers are good guys. I played a police officer in the novel that I wrote on this blog site. I had a RIGHT to show that some police officers are not good guys. Just like others use fictionalized characters to show police officers are good guys, I have a right to do the opposite. This is not IRAN my friend where we are shot at for expressing ourselves freely.

Show me one lie, I told when I played the fictional police officer I met and discussed the issue with him that we were blogging about.

You seem pretty dumb to me Anonymous One. You seem more upset at the style I used for writing than lies I never told. As I said you don't understand what a lie is. You don't understand fiction from non-fiction.

You seem like a high school drop-out who has no creative abilities or the slightest intelligence.

You could never write a book. You could never produce a play. You could obviously never make a movie. You simply can not think out of the box and want all people to be dumb parots because you are a dumb parot. You want people to be on the bottle for the rest of their lives depending on Experienced to spoon feed them their Gerber Baby Food. What is your favorite flavor Anonymous One so Mommy Experieced can get it ready for you?

Some of us grow up and become creative in our thinking. We are not dull. We are exciting. We think out of the box. You are stuck in a dark closed box.

People find me exciting whether they hate me or love me.

This blog site that I am "hijacking" was busier than 8 other threads on the Main Page combined when I checked yesterday. If people did not believe I was credible and had something important to say, they would not be bloggin on the only site I am blogging on.

They come here because they know I am telling the truth about corruption and improprieties regarding city hall. They want to hear me out. The readers who agree with me have nothing much to say. They simply agree. They can not add much to what I have been saying because I pretty much said it all.

The ones who fear losing their Big Fat Pensions one day are literally up in arms attacking ME the messenger instead of my message. As I have said, it has not worked in 2.5 years and it will not work in 10 years. The more you fight ME, the more you do me a favor and publicize my message. The more you publicize my cause.

So keep it going folks. Everyone on this blog site knows about Big Fat Pensions and Big Fat Salaries. Everyone knows about the rampant double dipping of our city employees, city police, and city officials. Everyone knows about the early retirement age of 52 of many of our city employees at taxpayer expenses. Everyone knows about the drunken sailor habits of our city council members who have caused our budget deficit. Everyone knows the police and firefighter unions screwed up their pension funds and want the taxpayers to reimburse them for their losses to the tune of $61.4 million.

And Anonymous ONE, your credibility is ZERO just like TB. Your apology to Chris about continuing this pursuit is hollow. You will keep coming back like a punching bag after it is punched. When someone is as dense as you, they keep coming back for more punches until they are knocked cold for the 8 count. Then they come back for another day for another pounding. Finally, when the screws and bearings have been loosened sufficiently in the cerebral, they smell the Java Beans.

I think this has more than run its course - It's like arguing with a brick wall. Listed below are two past posts by Taxes when he was pretending to be "police officer". I challenge anyone to read these and then reach the conclusion that this is exactly the same as an author or playwright simply using fictional characters to portray a non fiction event.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but clearly shows the level of deception practiced by Taxes on this blog, and why I have been spending so much time pointing out that he has no credibility on this site.

I apologize to the other bloggers and Chris for continuing this pursuit, I just think that when someone goes to such an extreme they need to be exposed for their actions. It's apparent that logic will not make him go away so I'll stop with the posts. I just thought the bloggers would get a kick out of this small summary of Taxes past indiscretions.

--------------------------------

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/02/napergate_man_unmasked.html#comments

Police Officer on February 28, 2008 12:37 PM

When I stop a lady with 3 or 4 kids because of a Tollway Violation, I am not required to handcuff her, jail her and watch her kids scream while I haul her away to a jail cell. That is inhumane! What you are saying is nonsense and fabricated! Of course we have discretion! I would never arrest such a lady in front of her kids. If I did not have discretion in such a case, I assure you I would not be a police officer. Police officers are not cruel human beings. My supervisor would commend me for not handcuffing this lady in front of her children over emissions or toll violations. I would not be in trouble for not arresting her as you are indicating.

Police Officer on March 5, 2008 12:08 PM

As a police officer of nearly a quarter of a century, I can tell you with certainty no warrants are issued in the case of emission suspensions. You are only arrested if you drive. You can not committ this offense unless you drive.

I can not speak for the other 49 states as I have no knowledge of their laws and never worked a police officer in any other state.

I honestly don't know as I am not a lawyer. Only a police officer!
Once again, I will reiterate as a POLICE OFFICER, I am given wide discretion and my duty is to exercise it fairly. I was not there when the SERGEANT exercised his discretion so I am going to withhold comment until all the facts are out. But I can tell you no police officer is allowed to abuse his discretion to discrimate against anyone

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 18, 2009 1:08 AM

Your handle is nowhere to be found in the first year of blogging

------------------

You didn't go back and do a search did you Taxes? That's something you said you never do.

And besides, I was writing to someone named "outlaw" not you. (LOL)

Taxes,
You keep harping on about fiction and fictional characters, I don't think you know what the means:

from dictionary.net:
Fiction \Fic"tion\, n. [F. fiction, L. fictio, fr. fingere, fictum to form, shape, invent, feign. See Feign.]

1. The act of feigning, inventing, or imagining; as, by a mere fiction of the mind. --Bp. Stillingfleet.

2. That which is feigned, invented, or imagined; especially, a feigned or invented story, whether oral or written. Hence: A story told in order to deceive; a fabrication; -- opposed to fact, or reality.

What you're trying to talk about is anonymous, not fiction. Anonymous ONE is not blogging about an imagined story, he/she is blogging anonymously.
When you pretended to be a police officer, THAT was fiction, as it was a wholly imagined experience. Note, please, the phrase 'a story intended to deceive; a fabrication'. That's fiction, not using an anonymous handle.
They're really quite different things, and the ideas can't be used interchangeably, nor can you define words as you wish.

In much the same way, 'fictional character' is defined as: noun
an imaginary person represented in a work of fiction (play or film or story); "she is the main character in the novel"

Different things, see?

Anonymous One,

It seems like your main issue is that I used more than one fictional character to promote my cause. That is not against the law or the blog rules.

As far as blogging about the issues, I have always tried to be 100% honest. If I challenge Experienced to name Fortune 500 companies that still have pensions and he finds a few, that simply means I was wrong. It does not mean I was lying. I think you have a problem differentiating wrong from lying.

I have thrown bones in the wrong direction to keep those who seek to identify me or find me from being able to identify or find me.

The Old Joe looked several places for me. I am glad I did not really identify the true places where he could find me. I think it is inappropriate for a blogger to seek someone out. And if one does, he needs to be given false information. That is exactly what I did. I gave him false addresses because he should not be seeking me out. He wasted gasoline and frustrated himself.

My facts and opinions on taxes and pensions are very clear. They have been repeated many times. You should be able to remember them without research. If my facts are not true, than state where I erred or in your opinion lied. I have always identified a source for my numbers unless I was using estimates of my own or extrapolating.

I do believe I am attacked in the vicious manner that I am attacked because I am extremely credible. Because I am attempting to wake the taxpayers up. Because I am drawing a correlation between foreclosurs in town and the high salaries and fat pensions we pay our police, firefighters, city officials, and some teachers. Because I am upsetting the many who are double dipping. Some retired police officers are working in the park district. Yes, getting a pension while collecting a salary and working on a second pension. Same as Robert Marshall.

And the excuse given on this blog site to defend this double dipping is hilarious. Oh, we have to let them retire because we can not let them work past age 52 as the work is strenuous. And then these police officers and firefighters go ahead and work as Forest Rangers or Park District Police. It is just mindblogging and so costly to the sleepy taxpayer who is clueless how he or she is being fleeced by the system.

Sooner or later, I believe I will get through to the Naperville Sun and they will be outraged as much as I am. I suspect officials in the Sun are just as outraged as I am. But they don't want to bear the wrath of the city. I don't blame them. I don't either.

I have little doubt that the Naperville Sun would rather have an Anonymous Fictional Character expose corruption and improprieties at City Hall than expose it themselves. It is easier. It is more politically correct.

It is so much easier to expose it anonymously. We all saw what happened to the Napergate Man when he tried to expose corruption and improprieties publicly and loudly in his Napergate Ads. The city went after him whichever way they could. The city was busted for harassing him and had to pay up which was costly to taxpayers.

By being anonymous we can expose the inefficiencies in City Hall without fear of retaliation or retribution as long as we don't libel or slander city officials. We can hold the City accountable for the waste of our hard earned dollars.

I am a strong believer that City Officials monitor this blog site daily. They are listening to what we say. I am sure they are trying to correct all their wasteful and drunkful spending habits before the mainstream media catches on...before the taxpayers wake up. So I see some good coming from this blog site.

Anonymous One,

I think you fail to realize that Anonymous One is a fictional character blogging on this blog site. You created a character to blog. You have not identified yourself, given your line of work, your marital status, your sex, your creed, your religion or whatever.

You are fictional character using a moniker. You have also changed your handle over time. You have stated in the previous blog you don't have time to go back and reasearch. I believe you. But that also means you were blogging with us at a prior time using a different handle....maybe several. Otherwise you would not know what was said on this blog site last year or the year before. You can not have your cake and eat it. Your handle is nowhere to be found in the first year of blogging.

What you are showing through deductive reasong is that your a loud mouth hypocrit.

John Q. Public,

We are in agreement. I do not think I am brilliant. I do feel like I am intelligent. I managed to get a graduate degree from a major university and you really can't do that without some intelligence.

You also did call me bright. That I am 100% certain of.

The bottom line is Fed Up with His Own Noise a/k/a Noisemaker had to eat crow on his remarks.

He wanted proof and it was provided by you.

The Moderator did not deny that he once called me intelligent and that is the other part of the proof. He is not going to post a lie about himself.

This stuff is really so silly.

My posts indicate I want to discuss current issues while the bloggers want to discuss ME. It is really ridiculous.

In an earlier post I wrote:

I do not think you are or may be brilliant, though I do think you are intelligence.

LOL! I've gotta laugh at myself on that one. Obviously, what I meant to say is:

I do not think you are or may be brilliant, though I do think you are intelligent.

Now if he/she/it simply fabricates numbers that have no basis he/she/it would be lying which is reprehensible

Ok "Outlaw" I'll play along. Yes, "Taxes" has fabricated many things on this web site. But like him, I don't have time to research past threads and point out the many instances of false information - I am only looking forward. If you are a follower of "Taxes" you won't have any issues with this excuse as it is commonly used by him to answer his critics.

BTW the "he/she/it" phrase is very similar to another blogger on this site - could just be a coincidence though!

A 1,

It appears TTT used fictional characters to promote his opinion, agenda or cause or whatever you may call it.

Can you point out where he/she/it lied?

If he/she/it is using numbers obtained from a council member and quoting the former Pension Fund Manager of another town that is a real person, how is he/she/it lying?

I really think it is like a non-fiction author telling his story with fictional characters. I don't see the difference.

Now if he/she/it simply fabricates numbers that have no basis he/she/it would be lying which is reprehensible.

Outlaw on June 17, 2009 5:44 PM

---------------

Outlaw, you jumped into this discussion a little late and may have missed the background. I'm not saying an actor or author can't portray non fiction or fictional characters as part of their story.

The characater on this site known as "Taxes" is like James Frey and Herman Rosenblat in that they both lied about their story to promote their cause as has "Taxes". Nothing more than that is being implied or stated.

By Experienced on June 17, 2009 7:01 PM
By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 17, 2009 6:48 PM
Fed Up with His Own Noise aka Noisemaker,

The Moderator said I was intelligent.

John Q. Public said I may be brilliant.

The statement has been proved and please stop making noise on this blog site.

See if Experienced has your bottle ready for you so you can stop whining and crying like a baby. Grow up, really!

--------------------------------

Experienced said I was a Peanut Brain

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Experienced,

You also said you love that Peanut Brain....that makes you a Peanut Brain in love with a Peanut.

On a serious note, Experienced, I believe you once also called me intelligent or something along those lines. Don't ask me to research it. It is based on my recollection.

But if you say you did not, I may put the energy to dig it up and continue building your Legacy of Foolhood.

Don't forget to get the bottles ready for your whining and crying babies. You seem to have quite a few of them looking for their Mommy.

Taxes wrote:

So basically you said I am intelligent, a bright person and may be brilliant on at least 3 different occasions.

Correction:

So basically you said I am intelligent and a bright person on at least 3 different occasions.

I do not think you are or may be brilliant, though I do think you are intelligence. For the record, I also think Experienced, T.B. and Anonymous ONE, among others, are intelligent. Intelligent people are not all equally intelligent. And some intelligent people will purposely try to mislead others in pursuit of their own ends and/or obsess about things to the point where they become blinded to the truth, or just don't care about it. I wouldn't put T.B., Experienced, or Anonymous ONE in that category.

-JQP

I believe you did call me intelligent and recall that. Thanks for verifying that.

On another occasion you did call me a bright person. That I am sure of.

I can not recall with 100% certainty that you said I may be a brilliant person. I do recall something along that line though because the word "may" caught my attention at the time. I recall wishing the "may" was not inserted. I considered it an honor coming from you as at that time, you were my favorite blogger and had my utmost respect. Unfortuantely, you chose to join the cultists and lost most of my respect.

Like I said I am a little older but my memory is still better than most. I inserted the word "may" because I recall it and want to be credible.

So basically you said I am intelligent, a bright person and may be brilliant on at least 3 different occasions. Saying I may be brilliant is not saying I am brilliant. So you did not say I AM BRILLIANT if you want to be technical. And I never said you did either.

I hope this resolves this matter and we can move on to tackling the many issues that can help save taxes that I mention in my numermous posts. My complaints about high taxes extend far beyond pensions but it appears everyone is obsessed with the issue of Big Fat Pensions.

========================================================================================================================================

Ps. Let us discuss those school bike cops that are assigned downtown so they can continue to collect a salary while the schools are closed. They are really not needed but I guess our city officials have no concern for our tax dollars. The downtown is nice and peaceful with the level of policing it receives the other 9 months of the year. Giving city employees work for the sake of giving them work is a fraud being committed on the taxpayer.

On New Year Eve which is the busiest weekend of the year and most dangerous, the police dept. adds a cop or two to the regular beat cops. On ordinary summer weekends they add 12 cops, 6-8 of whom can be seen riding bikes. Those are the school cops.

Just to clarify: I also don't recall ever saying you may be brilliant.

Taxes wrote:

John Q. Public said I may be brilliant.

I said you were intelligent. I don't recall ever saying you were brilliant.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 17, 2009 6:48 PM
Fed Up with His Own Noise aka Noisemaker,

The Moderator said I was intelligent.

John Q. Public said I may be brilliant.

The statement has been proved and please stop making noise on this blog site.

See if Experienced has your bottle ready for you so you can stop whining and crying like a baby. Grow up, really!

--------------------------------

Experienced said I was a Peanut Brain

Fed Up with His Own Noise aka Noisemaker,

The Moderator said I was intelligent.

John Q. Public said I may be brilliant.

The statement has been proved and please stop making noise on this blog site.

See if Experienced has your bottle ready for you so you can stop whining and crying like a baby. Grow up, really!

Now - who ever said TTT (in what ever incarnation) was intelligent and brilliant? Was it Caroline, Liebert, Lierbert, Huntington estates resident, Marybeth, maryann, Adam, Marshall, Robert, Cindy, jessica, Dor, blake, James, Ameena, Martha, Elizabeth, Marilyn, Jackson, Randy, Walter, Huntington estates Lady, McFarland, Sandy, june, jenny, Terri, Eric, melissa, Caroline, Becky, Beilen, Scott, Lucas, Nikki, Marshall, rachel, Deanna, Vicky, Police Officer, Todd, Sharon, Kathleen, Randy, Patricia, Victoria, Howard, Diana, Barack, Barak, or some other "supporter"?

Can you prove this statement?

By Anonymous ONE on June 17, 2009 4:58 PM
Outlaw on June 17, 2009 3:12 PM

----

Outlaw, go ask your librarian or local bookstore owner to give you their impression of James Frey or Herman Rosenblat. Their answer would be similar to what Taxes has done to this blog.

**************

A 1,
James Frey lied about his story. It is a little different.

Using fictional characters to tell a true story is perfectly legit.

It is really very common.

Many movies also use fictional characters to tell real stories. The actors are not the real people involved in the story and even use fictional names to protect the identity of the real people....especially if they were victims of sorts.

Anonymous One,

Your dense brain missed my entire point.

I have no legal remedies against anyone at this point and no one has any legal remedies against me since we are all fictional characters believe it or not. Most people on this blog site have used more than one handle and changed their handle as they please. You are simply lucky that the Moderator has not chosen to oust you as he has ousted me. At least the Moderator has been able to move forward while the rest of you are stuck in the mud and unwilling to call a tow truck to pull you out. Hopefully you will get tired of spinning your wheels endlessly.

What I said is IF I revealed my identity and blogged under my real name, I could have you all lined up in a court of law for libel and defamation of character in a nanosecond.

Nothing would carry any weight unless it was after the point of identifying myself. I have no claims on anyone regarding what was said in the past since I have been a fictional character just like you folks. Fictional characters can not sue fictional characters. There is no real damage to either party unless you consider damage to the ego of your moniker as damage....lol....

Thus if I ever identified myself and presented true and accurate facts about fat pensions, fat salaries and double dipping, as I have been, and you bozos called me a liar and fraud, I would put holes in all your pockets....deep holes in all your pockets....permanent holes in all your pockets.

When someone states that we have a $61.4 million pension deficit liability and it is a fact, you can not call him or her a liar or fraud. If you do, you will be sued and lose, whether the Judge is getting a Big Fat Pension or not. He must rule according to the letter and spirit of the law and not in defense of his Big Fat Pension.

When Gary Menconi, the former Pension Fund Manager for the Woodridge Police Dept. stated publicly and on this blog site, that the pension fund system in Illinois is a disaster and ready to implode, and I repeat what he said, you can not call me a liar and fraud for quoting him accurately. He has an office in Lisle. You can call him if you would like to verify this information. His number can be found on his Web Site. He is not a fictional character. So I do provide information from real people that you refuse to believe because you want to preserve your Big Fat Pensions at my expense and taxpayer expense.

Is CM Bob not a real person? I have used his numbers in my analysis. He is not a cartoon character. If I repeat what he stated in writing how can you call me a fraud or liar. He gave those numbers right on this blog site. I verified they were accurate by visiting the Web Site of the City of Naperville. I can't wait to see the next set of numbers in September which will help me penetrate your thick skulls. You will see this pension system is beyond repair. It needs to be ABOLISHED!

If I watch a city council meeting and I watch the council members demand that Chief David Dial immediately cut his OT, if I repeat this, how is that fraud and lying???

If I personally observe a packed downtown weeks before schools let out with only one or two police officers and suddently when schools let out the same packed downtown has 12 police officers including 6 school cops riding bikes how is that fraud or being a liar? In my opinion the police dept. is giving the school cops unnecessary work at taxpayer expense so they can continue receiving their Big Fat Salaries that lead to Big Fat Pensions. In my opinion, this is IMPROPER. It is a waste of taxpayer hard earned dollars. It is leading residents to lose their homes through foreclosure.

When cops are not needed, they should be laid off. If they are needed later, they should be rehired back later. That is how the private world works. It is called efficiency and protecting our dollar bills. The City of Naperville burns 100 dollar bills as if they grow on trees.

The car companies are struggling and 2 even filed for bankruptcy despite making many lay-offs of workers that were not needed. How do we justify sprinkling the downtown with 12 cops in the summer months when they are truly not needed? How???

If there was a true security issue, than the City of Naperville was grossly negligent for not have 12 cops before the schools let out when we had massive amounts of people in the downtown especially on weekends. You could not find a cop if you tried before the schools let out or when they resume.

To me this is all irrational and needs to be investigated. No one is checking on government since the Napergate Man retired. They do as they please with our tax dollars which led to the $11.5 million budget deficit despite this town being lined with McMansions paying $40,000 to $100,000 in real estate taxes on single homes priced respectively from 2 million to 5 million based on an approximate tax rate of 2%.

How dare our government officials waste our money? I am trying to hold them accountable and you punks are on here trying to destroy my credibility. It simply won't work so stop trying.

My credibility is solid as a rock. That is why you punks feel a need to jump on me. That is why you punks can only repeat each other like dumb parrots who have no ability to think out of their cage let alone out of the box. Stop making fools of yourselves and challenge my message or withdraw from this site as T.B. has withdrawn. Enough stupidity and silliness. Act like mature adults instead of cry babies needing Experienced to get you your bottles so you will stop crying every hour on the hour.

Love ya too, Experienced, but please keep those formula-filled bottles coming as the whining and crying has become defeaning on this thread.

Outlaw on June 17, 2009 3:12 PM

----

Outlaw, go ask your librarian or local bookstore owner to give you their impression of James Frey or Herman Rosenblat. Their answer would be similar to what Taxes has done to this blog.

By T.B. on June 17, 2009 1:54 PM
Taxes –

“Why are you here debating an insignifcant?”

Good question. I won’t make the mistake again. Good riddance.

T.B.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T.B.,
You said good riddance before and you came back again and again. Just like a mouse which needs its swiss cheese you need your highs and rises. Try to get them elsewhere and not at my expense. Let us hope this is your final stop.

Whether your brother works as a firefighter in Downers Grove, Lombard or any other suburban town, does it really matter? What relevance does it have to the debate and discussion? They all get 75% of their highest and final salary at the 30 year point or about age 52. These are such insignificant points that have absolutely nothing to do with credibility. They have no bearing on the discussion. They are silly points that substantiate that you are the fool you are. Try to make a better point if you want to question my credibility.

The bottom line is you were blogging for a very long time in the defense of these Big Fat Pensions. Only after I stated that no one would be defending them like you were, unless you had an interest at stake, did you finally admit you had a "conflict of interest" as your brother was a suburban fire fighter. Later you inadvertently volunteered that your Dad was an IRS agent in a discussion about taxes with me not realizing that you indirectly just told us your Dad is also receieving a Big Fat Pension or will soon. Further deepening your "conflict of interest." Suddenly your vigor for Big Fat Pension was revealed and dislclosed and your credibility flew out the window with the cuckoo's nest.

I do have spell check but it won't work with this blog site. I can not even use bold, color, or italics like some bloggers can. The moderator said he could not help and no blogger stepped forward to help. I could copy and paste to Microsoft Word or my e-mail to do my spell check but why waste time when my spelling is 99% or more accurate.

If only any of you guys could spell half as good as I can. Thanks for pointing out to the bloggers that I do not use spell check. It has been said on this blog site that I am intelligent and brilliant. Maybe I am also talented and can win the Spelling Bee. Of course I am a little too old for that....lol.

Well, TTT, if you were going to sue TB for defamation, I would have to sue you for plagiarism. Please don't use my "cult" term, especially as it turns out you are the one man cult.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 17, 2009 2:36 PM

Maybe, I should consider identifying myself so I can line you all up in court and sue you for libel and defamation of characters.

____________________________

Yes. I can see it now, probably would go all the way to the Supreme Court!!!!! I'm not sure if you knowingly did this, or it's just your bad grammer, but you said you would be suing us for defamation of "CHARACTERS" (yes plural)

Let's see, the case would be called:

(Using your previous aliases)

Caroline, Liebert, Lierbert, Huntington estates resident, Marybeth, maryann, Adam, Marshall, Robert, Cindy, jessica, Dor, blake, James, Ameena, Martha, Elizabeth, Marilyn, Jackson, Randy, Walter, Huntington estates Lady, McFarland, Sandy, june, jenny, Terri, Eric, melissa, Caroline, Becky, Beilen, Scott, Lucas, Nikki, Marshall, rachel, Deanna, Vicky, Police Officer, Todd, Sharon, Kathleen, Randy, Patricia, Victoria, Howard, Diana, Barack, Barak,

VS.

Anonymous, Anonymouse, Anonymous ONE, Joe, ken, Experienced, TB, anon, John Q. Public, Not this again, and a whole litany of others.

It would truly be an interesting lawsuit, which name would you use to show libel? You could call on waitresses from the Tilted Kilt who I'm all sure would be more than happy to defend you. How about your friends who are all experts on pensions and could vouch for your character? I wonder if judges receive pensions??? Might be a little tough to get a sympathetic judge.

By Anonymous on June 17, 2009 7:31 AM
Taxes,

While I'm thinking of it, Taxes said:
If you write a non-fictional book using fictional characters is that author a fraud? yes
Is he lying? yes
Is he deceiving? yes

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe the answers to your 3 quesions are, No, No, and No.

Many authors have written great non-fiction books and to protect the identity of the subjects used fictional characters.

Go to the library and have a chat with the librarian. Or visit your nearest bookstore.

OK, the housing plan has been abandoned by the county board and thus the issue of this blog topic is resolved for now. However of course if people want to continue to call each other peanut brains, go ahead. Some of us are moving to the day care issue. We think government "early education" facilities may be a way to solve the high costs of private day care. The government can squash private day care out of the market place and take over, expanding cradle to grave services closer to the begining of life, for those of course who survive government funded abortions. Viva Obama!

By Anonymous on June 17, 2009 3:47 AM
By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 17, 2009 1:32 AM

You hijacked the thread from those who were discussing affordable housing in Naperville. You will continue here until this thread begins to peter out, then you will hijack another thread.

Still love ya

Experienced

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Parrot Experienced,

You are babbling what other parrots recited before you.

Hijacking threads, really!

If you look at the last or oldest 4 threads on the Main Page of which this is one, the other 3 threads did not get one single hit in 6 days. NOT ONE HIT. I suspect the Moderator would love someone to hijack one of those 3 threads and fuel a debate. He has ratings he needs to maintain to be considered one of the best blog sites in Chicagoland.

They are there for you and others to discuss the relevant topics on. Not one of you parrots has gone there to discuss even bird feed or bird poopoo.

If I was not on this thread it would be dead. Who is preventing you from discussing Affordable Housing on this thread? Have any of your posts been rejected by the Moderator? Is there a limit of space as there is in a print newspaper? If you write a post on Affordable Housing, I will be happy to debate you as I have debated others in the early days of this thread.

Many bloggers came on here initially and stated this Affordable Housing was a code to allow public officials, police and firefighters to live in their own communities. They were against further entitlements to public employees.

Thus the debate started. My opinion was fire fighters and police officers in Naperville are paid higher than the highest graduates in the nation, those being engineers. And they should not be ENTITLED any further. Links were provided by others and myself to prove the salaries. So don't tell me I am spreading lies or that I am a fraud. Maybe, I should consider identifying myself so I can line you all up in court and sue you for libel and defamation of characters. Empty your pockets as you have emptied the taxpayers pockets with your Big Fat Pensions. I bet not one of you punks would dare say I am lying if I decided to become a real person on this blog site.

That was relevent to the subject matter on this thread. You call it hijacking as a way to defend your INDEFENSIBLE POSITION. You attack the MESSENGER instead of the MESSAGE because as most parrots you are only capable of repeating as your brains are the size of insects.

Most bloggers burned out and migrated to the newest posts, Moderator Chris put up.

I remained here focused on a topic I enjoyed discussing. When you have a cause you truly believe in, you simply don't burn out. When your ego is your cause, it is very easy to burn out.

You guys simply remained here to attack ME. That apparently is your real CAUSE.

Those really are the facts, my parakeet.

I will alway love you my dear parakeet, even though you are showing the beginning stages of memory loss. It has gone far beyond not remembering to insert your moniker.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. As far as this cult that is attacking me, most are recipients of BIG FAT PENSIONS at taxpayer expenses. In the rare event the blogger is not a recipient, as in the case of TB, his brother and father are recipients of BIG FAT PENSIONS at the expense of taxpayers.

There are many readers on this blog site who are seeing thru your orchestrated attempt to protect your ENTITLEMENTS. You are all frauds and fakes protecting your BIG FAT PENSIONS and BIG FAT SALARIES.

Taxes –

“I pick one thread to blog about Big Fat Taxes and Big Fat Pensions and you all pretty much come here to blog about ME instead of the issues that I am concerned about.”

No, we’d love to blog about anything but you. You just get in the way because you continually hijack a thread (even if just one at a time). Personally, I think you like being the center of attention. In fact, you seem to relish it.

“You all seem to have a dying desire to figure out who I am even though I am not interested in revealing my identity.”

Nope. I couldn’t care less and I doubt others have any desire to know, either. But you can continue in your paranoia if it comforts you.

“You all have a very deep desire to destroy ME the messenger instead of my MESSAGE which is apparently irrefuatable and indisputable.”

Your “facts” are only irrefutable and indisputable in your own mind. Just the fact that you believe this statement shows you have no desire to debate or discuss, just dictate the world according to you.

Actually, much of what you’ve written has been shown to be false and your memory is not as good as you think. Despite what you continue to write, I have stated many times that some sort of pension reform is probably necessary. I just don’t agree with your draconian pension elimination. And for someone with such a good memory, you should recall that I said my brother was not a Naperville or a Downers Grove firefighter. But why let pesky things like facts get in your way?

The fact that you know where my dad worked and what my brother does just goes to prove how false you are about me hiding anything. I disclosed those facts, not hid them. You didn’t get me to “confess” anything, but that’s an interesting twist on what really happened. Tell me, in your mind did you water-board me? I revealed those facts because at the time I thought they were relevant to the respective discussions.

You want to sue me for calling you a fraud after you admitted to “relating” to others and blogging as them in the first person? After you admitted to patting yourself on the back through other fictional characters? Just who nominated you, Ameena, as the best blogger of the year long ago? You?

And you want to sue me? Bring it. File a John Doe lawsuit and subpoena the sun for my e-mail address. Chris knows who I am and so did Ted. They’d be forced to answer if they were subpoenaed. Bring it on.

“Why are you here debating an insignifcant?”

Good question. I won’t make the mistake again. Good riddance.

T.B.

P.S. Please, no. Not a "DOUBLE FRAUD". Anything but that. Are you going to Double Dog Dare me next? Ha!

P.P.S. You pay $60K in taxes and can’t afford spell check?

Taxes,
No one cares who you are in your real life. I know that you believe that, and it very much fits with your personality, as least as it is shown on this site. The point of all of these postings is to once again point out how many times you've made things up, and how many times you've ever so conveniently come across someone who has inside information that just happens to support your viewpoint, though as it always turns out, that person can't be contacted.
It's amusing to see what happens when someone points out things that you've said in the past, things that clearly and obviously freaked you out! Thus, some of them must be accurate. The difficulty is that no one knows when you're simply making things up, as you've done repeatedly over the years here. it is funny, though.
Equally funny to me is that we've come no where near the idea of affordable housing on this thread for some time now. Don't you get the idea that virtually everyone here is exhausted with you and your antics, and are no longer going to let you get away with this? Because that's the point, though it probably feeds your ego. I remain firm in my contention that you're still living in your parents basement.
While I'm thinking of it, Taxes said:
If you write a non-fictional book using fictional characters is that author a fraud? yes
Is he lying? yes
Is he deceiving? yes
Don't you see that is exactly the point of this? You pretended to be someone else, someone who might have had useful inside-ish information, and you pretended to be that person. This is not pretending to be a different handle, this is deliberate misrepresentation, which you have done over and over and over and over.
No one believes you any more, and lots of people are now calling you on every aspect of everything you post. Get a clue, Taxes, no one is listening to you anymore, and everyone is laughing at you, and giving you more and more rope to hang yourself with. It has gone far past amusing, and has reached the point where it's sad, but everyone here, EVERYONE, has decided that you are no longer trustworthy, and YOU DON'T GET THAT! You have no supporters, and no followers, and on the off chance that one actually turned up, we'd all know that it was you.
So give it a rest, for your own sake. If you have something NEW to say on your favorite topic, that is taxes/pensions, then please, by all means do so, but back it up with something that can actually be verified by other people, not some mystery expert that you just happened to run into. If you don't have anything new to say on the subject and just want to repeat the same old ideas over and over again, please for your sake and for our sakes, just don't do it. We read it all, over and over on many different threads. We get your point, whether we agree with it or believe you on the topic.
If these issues are so vitally important to you, find some NEW information from a valid source to bolster your argument.
Please.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 17, 2009 1:32 AM

If I were a trouble maker I would be seeking you out on the other threads and personally attacking you. I am not. You are seeking me out on this thread, the only thread I am blogging on currently, and personally attacking me many times a day.

-------------------------------------

Actually, Peanut Brain, I believe that a lot of people came to this thread to discuss the question about whether the county should continue its program to develop affordable housing. Those people included TB, Ken and a number of Anonymouses. And, there were also some people that just wanted to discuss affordable housing. You decided to change the topic to your pet cause because the other threads where you were discussing your pet were starting to peter out. I believe you were doing it on the old discuss what you want and the house rejects tax increase threads AT THE SAME TIME. The what do you think of your taxes thread had just gone stagnant at the end of May. This became your third thread at the same time. You began on the fourth posting. Chris asked us to bring the discussion back on topic, but you did anyway.

You hijacked the thread from those who were discussing affordable housing in Naperville. You will continue here until this thread begins to peter out, then you will hijack another thread.

Still love ya

Experienced

By T.B. on June 16, 2009 10:14 PM
Taxes –

You can try to dodge this as much as you want, but I have to say what others are thinking—you’re a fraud.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of dodging and fraud that applies to you T.B.

You came here supporting government pensions as if you were a neutral blogger or observer.

My fictional characters got you to confess that both your Dad and brother were government employees.

Your brother is a firefighter who will collect a Big Fat Pension from Downers Grove.

Your Dad is a retired or soon to be retired IRS agent who will also receive a Big Fat Pension from the United States of America.

Your lack of disclosure and honesty until my fictional characters called you out and ousted you, indicates you are a TRUE FRAUD....a DOUBLE FRAUD.

I am not thinking it. I am saying it, T.B.

I would watch who you call a FRAUD in the future. If you were calling a REAL PERSON, a fraud, you would be subject to a Defamation Lawsuit. Thankfully, for your sake I am a fictional character and can not be defamed and/or libeled.

Neither can you....so don't get any more clever thoughts and when you get them keep them to yourself.

By John Q. Public on June 16, 2009 8:31 PM
Taxes wrote:

I have a cause that I blog about. The cause motivates me to continue.

I know you have a cause. I also know that truth is often a casualty of your pursuit of that cause. You'll say just about anything to try to get people on board with your crusade to put an end to public pensions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JQP,
I have a cause but I only tell the truth regarding my cause and the pursuit of my cause. I provide factual numbers obtained from the likes of CM Bob who was extremely helpful while blogging with us. I am patiently awaiting the next set of numbers due out in September to promote my cause. Have you seen me fabricate numbers on this blog site? If so tell me when and where. Have I made calculated estimates based on my personal knowledge. Yes, I have. And my estimates are much better than those of actuaries who are partially responsible for this $61.4 million pension deficit for the PO and FF pension funds. Do you think I just fabricate these numbers I use, JQP? Yes, I pull my fictional characters out of a rabbit's hat but not my hard core numbers. My hard core numbers have sources that I have identified over and over again.

As a full time blogger, JQP, you should be fully aware of that.

I will absolutely not say anything false and lose my credibility when discussing MY MESSAGE.

My credibility is so strong that the bloggers feel a need to attack my fictional characters/handles instead of their message. This has always been the problem.

You guys can attack me all you want but the pension disaster is a mess and will IMPLODE whether you like it or not. I have no doubt, just like Gary Menconi. I, like him, just don't know when it will happen. But I suspect it will be sooner than later.

By Anonymous on June 16, 2009 10:13 PM
Hold up - your lips to my ears:

"While you are a young man, I am an older man. ... I was not against them 30 years ago when you were still a fetus in your Mom's womb. I was actually for them. "
I stand by my age guesstimate of 50-60.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not say you were right or wrong. I am taking John Q. Public's good advice and being extra careful. I said I was between 30-115. So you could be right or wrong with your estimate. I am not going to let anyone profile me gradually. I am not going to give any tips or hints. This is not a game. This is about corruption in government. Serious corruption.

I do work out between 930pm to 11:00 pm 5 days a week and at different times on weekends. I did throw the hostile cult a bone so they would look in the wrong place in case they did try to find me. I did not say I see my firefighter acquaintence every day. I said I run into him 50% of the time when I work out.

Like I told, T.B., you should focus on my message and not me. I am not dumb enough to tell someone where they could find me. I am clever enough to tell someone where they can not find me. Feel free to go on a wild goose chase if you would like and search the local Life Time Fitnesses all you want. Good luck finding me....

The Old Joe spent a year trying to find me at local cafes and coffee houses. He never could find me. I threw him a bone and he gobbled it. End of Story.

Thankfully, he no longer searches for ME or my fictional characters. He knows better.

By T.B. on June 16, 2009 10:14 PM
Taxes –

Maybe you have a good cause in attacking high taxes. Maybe you’re a day-trader. Maybe you really pay $60K in real estate taxes. But the reality is that nobody believes anything you say so it really doesn’t matter, does it?

T.B.

========================================================================================================================================

T.B.,

You know T.B., you are right, it really should not matter. But somehow it matters to you guys. Why does it matter?

I pick one thread to blog about Big Fat Taxes and Big Fat Pensions and you all pretty much come here to blog about ME instead of the issues that I am concerned about.

You all seem to have a dying desire to figure out who I am even though I am not interested in revealing my identity.

You all have a very deep desire to destroy ME the messenger instead of my MESSAGE which is apparently irrefuatable and indisputable. It is very well known in political circles that if you can not destroy a good message go for the messenger. I know what you guys are doing and I am making sure you all fail....and you are all failing miserably 2.5 years after I started my campaign to expose City and State Corruption on this blog site.

More bloggers would rather come to a thread that I am blogging on than all other 9 threads on the Main Page combined on most days. And yet it really should not matter. So why does it matter, TB? Why are you here debating an insignifcant? Why do you care to debate me day and night if my message does not matter?

I find it very puzzling. I am simply trying to promote a message and you all say I am a nobody and I don't matter, but none of you can stay away from me. It is as if you all have an obsession with me or addicted to me. Get some lives! Do something you can be proud of!

I don't chase any of you guys. I see you blogging on other threads. I don't attack you on other threads. I can ignore you easily and do in fact ignore you. But you all come here like a cult to attack me instead of my message. Why?

If I were a trouble maker I would be seeking you out on the other threads and personally attacking you. I am not. You are seeking me out on this thread, the only thread I am blogging on currently, and personally attacking me many times a day.

Case Closed.

Taxes –

It’s nice of you to try to drag Ted Slowik into this (I bet he’s happy to not have to deal with you now), but he didn’t do the bulk of the research on the Napergate crap—Ameena (wouldn’t that be you?) did, supposedly at the library.

Obviously, nobody believed you were BHO. The big difference is that people did believe you when you took on ordinary personas to boost your position(s). People believed you when you surreptitiously decided you could “relate” (your word) to a milkman or a neighbor and tell his or her story (as you perceived it).

You can try to dodge this as much as you want, but I have to say what others are thinking—you’re a fraud. You think you’re debating, but really you’re looking for attention and validation in the worst possible way.

Maybe you have a good cause in attacking high taxes. Maybe you’re a day-trader. Maybe you really pay $60K in real estate taxes. But the reality is that nobody believes anything you say so it really doesn’t matter, does it?

T.B.

Hold up - your lips to my ears:

"While you are a young man, I am an older man. ... I was not against them 30 years ago when you were still a fetus in your Mom's womb. I was actually for them. "
I stand by my age guesstimate of 50-60.

And you're the one that went on and on about going to Lifetime Fitness from 9:30-11 five nights a week and always run into your FF friend...

In your head there is corruption in Naperville and in your head you have a lot of supporters. It is only a matter of time before you crumble under all of your nonsense.

By Anonymous on June 16, 2009 6:37 PM
Here's what I've concluded about TTT:

#2. He is physically fit and is at Lifetime Fitness between 9:30 and 11pm every night that it's junky outside. He runs sprints and weight lifts. (if someone really wanted to know who you are they could find you)

Do you think I would really give you the name of the health club I really work out or the exact time? If it was Lifetime Fitness, do you think I would tell you if it was the one in Warrenville, Bolingbrook or Burr Ridge. Yes, that is simply a bone to keep those looking for me chasing their tails. Do you think I would really tell someone where they could find me....lol...(Just for the record I am a member of more than one health club. I got a second membership as a gift and decided to continue paying on it.)

#3. He hangs out in Woodridge A LOT - fear of the cops, he doesn't want to be seen in downtown Naperville.

I spend just as much time downtown Naperville as I do in Woodridge.
It was ME who made an issue of all these schools cops riding bikes in downtown during the summer months and wasting taxpayer money. It was ME who made an issue of 12 cops in downtown after the schools let out and 1-2 cops before the schools let out even though downtown was equally busy on the weekends before and after. How soon you forget? I think downtown Naperville is much prettier than Seven Bridges. But I wanted to follow the story of the bankruptcy of that massive development and the role of Moser Enterprises. It was truly a fascinating story and I even convinced the Naperville Sun to do a story on the fiasco and they did.

#4. He is anti-Israel, has used the handles Ameena, B. Hussein, and knows an awful lot about Eid Ul Adha - either middle eastern or of middle eastern descent.

You don't have to be Middle Eastern to dislike Israel's racist and Zionist policies. Most Europeans are anti-Israeli. President Carter is in the Gaza Stip visiting with Hamas leaders and crying for the children of Gaza. If you watch the news or read newspapers you should know about Muslim and Jewish feasts even if you are a Christian. I am a little surprised people can be so narrow minded. Is former President Carter of Middle Eastern decent because he dislikes Israel? He is simply an honest man with a conscience who can not be bought with AIPAC money. Many people hate Israel but they won't admit it publicly. A couple of beers at the Tilted Kilt and you can find out how the average American really feels about Israel. Hell, they steal 3 billion dollars of our tax dollars annually and use it for crimes against humanity. I am against high taxes and Israel contributes to our high taxes for no good reason. That should explain why I hate Israel. 3 billion dollars worth. I also hate Egypt to the tune of 2.2 billion dollars. But I love Muslims and Jews equally. I am anti-corrupt governments who steal American Taxpayer Money.

I love Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Agnostics and Atheists all equally. My out of the box thinking has led me to believe all religion is brainwashing....man made. No way did the Almighty God tell each group their way was the right way. But I respect all people and their individual beliefs. I hope everyone goes to Heaven including Experienced and Anonymous One.

#5. Is an engineer or has children that just graduated as an engineer. Major issues with fire fighters getting paid more than engineers.

My choice of engineers for an example has nothing to do with being an engineer or not. I chose engineers for my example simply because engineers were the highest paid graduates out of college. I wanted to use it as a comparison against firefighters who got paid even more....dah. I also used nurses as a comparison. Does that make me a nurse also? Sometimes the small mindedness on this blog site blows me away.

Even though I own property in town and pay taxes, most Napervillians also own property of one kind or another. Many Napervillians own one home in town and pay more than I do in taxes on my home and rental property combined. I admire them as they really contribute to our tax base but too bad our city officials squander all these taxes away from the McMansions. How sad! How can we have an $11.5 million budget deficit with this town loaded with McMansions. You guessed it. Incompetence at City Hall. Inefficiencies at City Hall. Improprieties at City Hall. I am not guessing as you are. I am sure!

I already stated I am a trader. I trade stocks for myself and no one else. I do it quietly from my computer while I blog. Since I trade only for myself using the internet, use no assistance, have no clients, no one would know who I am. That is why I revealed my profession, which is basically self-employed, a very long time ago. I guess you must be new to this blog site, Anonymous, or not following the novel very carefully.

Lately, I have been trading Alcoa, symbol AA. I attempt to buy it for .50 cents below the closing price and sell it .50 cents above the closing price. I can usually make 500 dollars a day on 1000 shares of Alcoa while having fun with the bloggers. Just like I trash my handles, I also trash stocks that do not give me the volatilty to trade and make a few bucks. I fell in love with my stocks in 2000-2001 and was almost destroyed for holding too long and not trashing them when they were acting like a falling knife. I don't love stocks or handles anymore. I only love Experienced because he loves me. Any by implying I am a HE, you are implying that Experienced may be GAY. So please do not imply or conclude anything when you don't have good information....lol.... Experience wants me to be Sybil or Marilyn so please don't destroy his dreams.

========================================================================================================================================

While I gave some slight thought to buying a Tilted Kilt, I decided against owning my own business. I realized how difficult it is to run a business after watching Tilted Kilt in operation. I am much happier owning rental real estate and trading stocks. I like the freedom it gives me to do what I please. Owning a business amounts to borderline enslavement for some owners. Money is suppose to buy you the freedom to do as you please....just ask Michael Jordan who made that statement....not to imprison you in a demanding business. Nothing against business owners. I admire them and respect them. They work their tails off. Issue stocks and I will buy your shares. But I want nothing to do with owning or managing a business. I want to blog and have fun. What else can I do on a rainy day like today trapped inside my home? Thank God for this blog site.

It is nice to be able to write a non-fiction novel and create fictional characters about the City of Naperville while trading. Sometimes I lose 50k-100k trading stocks in a day while blogging while other days I make 50-100k in a day while blogging. That is where I get my rises and highs from. We all need them I guess, but we get them from different places. Most bloggers on this site need this blog site to give them their highs and rises. I honestly don't mind. But please get your rises without disrupting my Righteous Cause of fighting government waste and high taxes. I paid over 60k in real estate taxes and I feel like I got ripped off....that is my motivation. There is no hidden agenda here. This has nothing to do with the Palestinian-Israeli Wars even if I have an opinion on the subject.

Being a Napervillian for 30 years does not make me 50-60 years old. It could make me 30 years to 115 years old. Good try buddy. I don't ever recall saying I was born in Naperville or not born in Naperville. If Experienced is right and I have a peanut memory and forgetful, I may easily be over 100 years old. As you age, you do become forgetful. This is a fact of life.

I love Naperville. I just hate the corruption that is rampant in Naperville. One day when residents smell the coffee, I will have a lot of supporters on this blog site and elsewhere. It is only a matter of time. Watch and see!

Taxes wrote:

People had no clue who I was or was not for over 2 years. So my excuse was not lame.

Not true. Joe (i.e., Original Joe) suspected your game from the get go. Your memory must not be as good as you say, because several of your personalities were quite offended when he accused you all of being the same person. Others, myself included, noticed the similarities in all of the Napergatian posts; you can change the handle on any of those posts, and nobody would notice a difference. Why else do you think it is that Ken always referred to you as a cult? I will grant that you had me fooled though, but only because I couldn't believe that anyone other than an adolescent prankster with too much time on his hands would be that duplicitous.

Once the current moderator uncovered my plot using IP numbers, I stopped making an attempt to use a different writing style from character to character.

As mentioned above, your attempts to change your writing style weren't as successful as you think.

You obviously have an ego. I don't.

Of course I have an ego. I've admitted as much before. I am human, after all. That you don't have an ego is as big an untruth as any that has been posted in the history of Potluck, by you or anybody else. You are fooling nobody but yourself here.

I have a cause that I blog about. The cause motivates me to continue.

I know you have a cause. I also know that truth is often a casualty of your pursuit of that cause. You'll say just about anything to try to get people on board with your crusade to put an end to public pensions.

Don't underestimate me John Q. Public. You may have a fancy handle but that does not mean you are more clever than I am.

I am not saying I am more clever than you. I am just saying that you may be overestimating your own cleverness. I don't care if you want to keep posting personal information about yourself. But while some of it may be intentionally misleading, don't be surprised if some of us start reading between the lines. I agree that even if you're outed you have nothing to fear in the way of legal retaliation (and, in my case, any other kind of retaliation). But if, as you often say, you are very concerned about remaining anonymous, you'd be advised to be more careful in what you say and how you say it. Please don't interpret this as an attack or a threat; it is a friendly warning---even if the tone of my post isn't very friendly.

-JQP

I don't know; I think it's kind of cute. "In real life I am not a police officer but I play one on some nondescript blog."

I also think it's ironic that Peanut Brain wanted to play a police officer that gets "Big Fat Pension"! I guess it's either pension or badge envy. Or, you know what they say about people who have to compensate for their "deficiencies" by relating to guns.

Outlaw on June 16, 2009 5:54 PM
A 1,

Maybe we should require movies to outlaw the use of non-police officers as police officers in the movie.

Are they also not pretending to be police officers in both fictional and non-fictional movies?

Is that what you are saying?

___________

Hi Outlaw, No. This little Riff with Taxes is about his past use of this blog as his playground where he pretended to be well over 50 different aliases, all carrying on conversations with each other and praising each other for research, insight and knowledge. The problem was that the moderator busted him for pretending to be so many characters.

One of these characters he made up was named "police officer" where this alias would pretend to give specific knowledge of how police officers think and act. This character was also proven to be "Taxes".

taxes doesn't understand how using a pseudonym to remain anonymous, and using a moniker like "police officer" are two different things and are why he is no longer viewed with any credibility.

An actor, or author for that matter, can play and write about whomever they wish. If Clint Eastwood came out and said the reason he was so good at playing "Dirty Harry" was because he was an actual police officer I think people would have problems with this - (something he has never claimed by the way).

Hope this helps.

Here's what I've concluded about TTT:

#1. He is between 50-60 years old based on his claim of being a Napervillian for 30 years.

#2. He is physically fit and is at Lifetime Fitness between 9:30 and 11pm every night that it's junky outside. He runs sprints and weight lifts. (if someone really wanted to know who you are they could find you)

#3. He hangs out in Woodridge A LOT - fear of the cops, he doesn't want to be seen in downtown Naperville.

#4. He is anti-Israel, has used the handles Ameena, B. Hussein, and knows an awful lot about Eid Ul Adha - either middle eastern or of middle eastern descent.

#5. Is an engineer or has children that just graduated as an engineer. Major issues with fire fighters getting paid more than engineers.

#6. Owns property in town and pays $60k in combined property taxes. Any of those properties a liquor store?

Based on everything you've shared with us, you must be a recognizable character! We don't need to know your real name, you drop enough hints as it is. (if they're true.)

A 1,

Maybe we should require movies to outlaw the use of non-police officers as police officers in the movie.

Are they also not pretending to be police officers in both fictional and non-fictional movies?

Is that what you are saying?

By John Q. Public on June 16, 2009 3:02 PM
Taxes,

Every time you change your handle, it doesn't take more than one or two posts for most us to know that it is you, so your ego excuse is pretty lame.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JQP,

People had no clue who I was or was not for over 2 years. So my excuse was not lame.

Once the current moderator uncovered my plot using IP numbers, I stopped making an attempt to use a different writing style from character to character. That is why you know who I am very easily. Obviously, I succeeded for a long time in being different characters. I did not ask the Moderator to reveal ME. He did on his own. So your remark is utterly borderline ignorant. A very foolish remark.

You obviously have an ego. I don't. I have a cause that I blog about. The cause motivates me to continue. The cause is worthwhile. Most people who are here to boost their egos drop like the fly Obama killed today on CNBC because it was annoying him.

As far as precautions I take many. I am a cash buyer at Tilted Kilt. There is no paper work to track me. The place has thousands of customers per week. It is very very busy. I don't use my real name at places where I blog about. I use a nick name. So if there was a 1 in a 10,000 chance someone at the TK could identify me, they would provide you with a meaningless very coomon nickname that would lead to nowhere. I don't need an ID to get in the place since I am quite a bit older than 21. If they asked me for an ID, I would just go to Charlie Cabana. Don't underestimate me John Q. Public. You may have a fancy handle but that does not mean you are more clever than I am.

The firefighter acquaintence is just that. I know his first name. I do not know his last name. He does not know my first or last name. He is very proud of his Big Fat Pension and loves to brag about it at the health club. He is very proud of his double dipping. He has told at least 100 members about his Big Fat Pension. He could never identify which member he told and connect that member to an Anonymous Blogger. He is single and looking for a girl friend, so he is doing some typical male boasting and bragging. He waxes his red sports car practically everyday, sometimes in the health club parking lot.

I don't think he is the only firefighter that goes to Centennial Beach. I don't think he is the only firefighter that goes to health clubs. Dozens probably do as most firefighters unlike police seem to be in relatively good shape.

And if I am ever identified, I have nothing to worry about. I have not libeled anyone or lied about anything. I just hate Big Fat Pensions that are at my expense and other taxpayers' expense. I have a RIGHT to hate Big Fat Pensions. I am not going to allow some naive bloggers to take my RIGHTS away.

And for the many who find me annoying, there are 9 other active threads on the Main Page. I am not blogging on any other thread. If you find me annoying, why are you here reading my non-fiction book with fictional characters. If a police officer is one of my fictional characters, that is also my RIGHT. I am not going to allow an idiot like Annoymous One to dictate how I choose to write my non-fiction book or allow him to limit my choice of fictional characters.

This specific thread would have 0 acitivity if I was not blogging here. Look at other older ones on the Main Page and you will see no activity.

You guys remind me of guys who live on porn sites but hate porn. If you hate porn, don't go on a porn site. Try a religious site!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. And trust me JQP, I always thrown Experienced bones that lead him in the wrong direction. I threw him enough bones that he thought I was someone else for a good month. I played along and made him look like the fool he is. At this point he does not know his face from his behind....not even if he could put them side by side on 2 mirrors. He thinks he is having fun on this blog site, well I am having a lot more fun than he is and making minced meat out of him in the process. But, we both agree we still love each other. So what is your problem, JQP. Are you jealous?!?

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 16, 2009 3:26 PM

If you write a non-fictional book using fictional characters is that author a fraud? Is he lying? Is he deceiving?

--------------------

If the author of the book in your hypothetical scenario claims to be, let's say a "Police Officer" and based on his knowledge and training of police techniques writes a book that claims to rely on this fact, then yes this person is lying and deceiving if it is later found out that he lied about his profession. Look at the author "James Frey" who wrote a million little pieces. He claimed something that he wasn't and sold books based on this deception. When he was outed he was completely discredited and now does not have any credibility, just like you!

this is no different than when you took on the personality of a particular profession (police officer) and then proceeded to make claims based on your supposed training. You went way beyond simple fiction and non fiction, you were purposely deceitful.

Face it Taxes, you have been cornered and now are making personal attacks to try to save face. You're the one constantly complaining to the moderator about anything and everything, and you are also the one constantly reprimanded for language and/or content issues - not I

Anonymous One,

If you write a non-fictional book using fictional characters is that author a fraud? Is he lying? Is he deceiving?

Get over yourself Anonymous One. You seem like you are an uneducated stooge who does not know the difference of fiction from non-fiction.

You are treating this blog site as if it is a court of law where we have raised our right arms and sworn on the Bible to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and only speak as the person sworn in.

I have told the truth using fictional characters.

Where does it state in the blog rules I was not allowed to do that?

Which blog rule did I break or violate?

There is not even a blog rule that states a fictional character can not pat another fictional character on the back even though I apologized for that.

I think you need to get a life Anonymous One and go get yourself a cold beer at the Titled Kilt that never looked so good. The food is excellent there. Try the Gaelic Chicken(that is Gaelic and not Garlic). It is made with a delicious Irish Wiskey Mushroom Cream Sauce and delivered with soft noodles and mashed potatoes meshed together in that delicious sauce. It is only $11.99. The Danny Shepard Pie is spectacular and the "Fat Bastard Meatloaf" is out of this world. The latter two are only $9.99.(Sorry about the use of that "B" word, Moderator, but that is actually on their Menu printed by Corporate in Arizona.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Please stop playing Moderator, Anonymous One, and blog on the subject matter. The Moderator has proven very capable of moderating his blog site and setting the standards he desires and wishes. I have abided by his standards and adjusted as he has clarfied what he expects and what he permits. In the final anaylsis, the Moderator does not have to publish anything he does not feel is appropriate. He has a very good sense at what is a lie and what is libel and does not publish posts that attempt either.

If the Moderator felt like I was simply blatantly lying and libeling on this blog site, I can assure you he would never publish my posts. So bascially you are acting like a dog barking at a squirrel up the tree. It does no good, Anonymous One, so please stop barking. I am tired of hearing you bark all day and night. The squirrel does not want to associate with you. Take a hint and find a dog who will be your friend.

You know what we need?
A standard paragraph, explaining the excesses of a certain person who posts on this site [perhaps someone who likes rabbit hats], that can be inserted after every individual post made by this particular person.
Something like: We realize that new readers of this site will not understand the annoyance that regulars to this site feel when they come across yet another multiple paragraph rant that looks to be nearly identical to the above dozen rants by the same person.
Some of us who have been using this site for more than a couple of years have documented any numbers of misleading statements, untruths and misinterpretations. We have also had a former moderator document multiple handles discussing posts and those have turned out to be the same individual talking to him/herself.
The regular users of this blog site caution you to read the above posts very carefully, and to be very careful in what you believe.
Beware the rabbit hat! Beware the rabbit hat! Beware the rabbit hat!

Taxes,

Every time you change your handle, it doesn't take more than one or two posts for most us to know that it is you, so your ego excuse is pretty lame. The things you've said about yourself also do not lead one easily to the conclusion that you have a superabundance of humility.

BTW, if you are truly concerned with remaining anonymous, I would be very, very careful about divulging any details about my life, if I were you. I know you've tried to be clever about this, but I suspect you've not been as clever in this regard as you think you've been.

-JQP

By T.B. on June 16, 2009 7:43 AM
Taxes –

“I have no time to look backwards." You don’t have time to “look backwards” but you’re the queen of all things Napergate? You certainly had plenty of time to research the past on that topic.

========================================================================================================================================

I don't have time to look backwards or live in the past. Life is very short. You realize that as you get older.

Ted Slovick, the former Host of this Blog Site and Editor of the Sun, dug up the Napergate ads and reposted quite a few of them on this blog site. I did read them when he posted them.

I read them when they initially appeared in the Naperville Sun. The Napergate Man published each Napergate ad about 3 times so I read each ad 3 times and also have a good recollection of them.

Need I remind you again you are the one who did the research on the Napergate Man Federal Civil Rights Case and published links to it. I did read your links and learned something I did not know. I did verify that what you posted was accurate. I always wondered what happened to that Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit against the City and you provided some excellent insight with your research. You took some time and you did a very good job answering some lingering questions. I thank you for your efforts. I also thank Experienced for all his efforts at research. But I don't have the time for research except in rare cases.

The Naperville Sun never reported on the Civil Rights case results to the best of my recollection. I believe they reported something about it 2 years ago in the rehashing article about the Napergate Man and the Napergate Era long after the verdict had been delivered.

It appears one possiblity is Tim West decided to kill the story when it first came out. He did not want the citizens to know the City of Naperville was defeated in Federal Appellate Court as well as State Appellate Court. The other possibility is the City of Naperville made sure the Naperville Sun did not find out.

Since the City of Naperville still had a right to drag this case to the Supreme Court of the United States and delay paying the Napergate Man for a few years even though they had almost zero chance of winning, they could have made a deal to give the Napergate Man his judgment without delay in return for his SILENCE.

If you try to chart the sequence of events, you realize about the time of his victory in the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, he changed the focus of his ads from his litigation to fighting for the rights of subdivisions such as in the Spring Green Battle. He literally turned his theme on a dime, suddenly and with no explanation. Sometimes "time" provides the answers. History does not always provide the answers.

I suspect "time" will tell us if these pensions are a disaster and if the "time bomb" will implode. We just have to be patient sometimes. In September when Experienced publishes the new pension deficit, we will see if it got better or worse. I suspect it got worse....much worse. I predict he will blame it on the market even though he stated the pensions are not invested that heavily in the markets but more in conservative government bonds and such securities. I believe he will be eating crow. He can send me all the love letters his heart desires but he will still be eating crow. Let us wait and see.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 16, 2009 1:42 PM

----

After that long meandering off topic rant I have to ask: Did you have lunch today at the Tilted Kilt and partake of the "never looked so good" beverage?

If you claim that pretending to be a real Police officer is the same as pretending to be Barak Obama I know that I, and I can probably speak for many bloggers here, strongly disagree. You pretended to be a police officer to falsely bolster your claims and credibility, while you pretended to be BHO in a misguided attempt at humor that fell short. For you to claim they are the same is disingenuous at best.

BTW, most of your fictional characters on the Napergate threads carried on lengthy conversations with each other, and "banned together" (If that term can be used when discussing multiple personalities) to combat anyone who disagreed with the Napergatian thought process, which we now know was just you, and goes to why you have no credibility here.

I rest my case. (It's beginning to feel like kicking someone when they are down.)

Anonymous One,

Just because I used fictional characters to get my points across, it does not mean I am lying.

I used Barak Hussein Obama as a fictional blog character to try to get in his mind and understand his way of thinking. I felt he would be a good president. I felt he will be unlike Bush and demand Israel freeze and dismantle the illegal settlements. That he would eventually force Israel to withdraw from occupied territories based on Resolutions 242 and 338.

Obama is doing that. He demanded Israel freeze every settlement. Not even a balcony can be built. He told that to PM Netanyahu privately to his face in the White House and later announced it publicly. Finally, we got a President who can see through the propaganda the media has been feeding us. Who will not be pressured by AIPAC money!

Now did anyone here on this blog site really believe I was BHO? That BHO would actually take time to blog with us on a consistent basis? I was just being obviously satirical and having fun. Most of the characters I fictionalized were usually bloggin one at a time sometimes for weeks.

I do get bored of being a fictional character or having the same handle. Other apparently don't. Some bloggers have their ego tied to their moniker. I have no ego tied to any handle I choose. I have trashed every handle I have used except the last one. Trust me, you don't trash your ego, if this is about ego.

I never wanted to be identified as "ONE PERSON." I made every attempt not to be identified as one person. If this was about EGO for me, I would want to be ONE PERSON building my ego. For me this is about impropriety and corruption and what I can do to spread the message and get more people on board. For most bloggers, unfortunately, it is about the ego they associate with their handle. They are here to make a name for their handle which they associate as being themselves. That is why they stick with the same handle in my opinion. They get rises and highs out of their handles. This to me is a sign of extreme immaturity.

Authors write non-fictional books with fictional characters? Have you never read such a book? Many times these fictional characters are chosen to protect the identity of the real characters. Makes a lot of sense to me.

As far as the firefighter, I gave his real first name on this blog site many times. He retired at age 48. I doubt there is another person with his first name at that dept. If you want to test my credibility, file a FOIA request with the Lisle-Woodridge Dept. You will see this man retired a little over a year ago and shortly before he retired he got his promotion. I believe it was to Captain.

He is very successful. He owns 4 condos at Four Lake Villages that he rents out. He owns 2 beautiful cars. And he is not lazy. He got another job as soon as he retired as a Forest Park Ranger and is working on his second pension. He made a touch under 100k before retiring. So no one is going to tell me we underpay our firefighters and we should feel sorry for them.

Between his pension and ranger job, I suspect he is making well over 150k. Most 49 year old college graduates are making substantially below that at age 49. Many engineers I know are making less than they were 10 years ago and are simply happy to have a job. Many are unemployed. Other are underemployed.

Does anyone know a firefighter who has been laid off in Dupage County? There is no denying that firefighters are doing very well. I encourage every young man and woman to be a firefighter if they seek a guaranted path to riches without having to work very hard......without too much stress except on rare occassions when there are fatalities in a house fire or car crash. With nearly 200 fire fighters in the NFD, most have never rescued a human being from a fire. This is an extremely rare occurence in modern Naperville due to flame resistant materials used to build homes. With battery operated fire alarm detectors, smoke detectors, and remote alarm detection services most individuals can exit long before the firefighters ever arive. Pouring water on a burning structure should not be that stressful unless you can not handle stress.

Not one Naperville Fire Fighter has been killed in the line of duty for over 38 years. Not one! Firefighters are not encountering the risks our soldiers are who make far less in Iraq and Afgahistan. Let us try to be real.

Lying about real people is something I will not do. Being a liar is being libelous. More than anyone on this blog site, I know I could be tracked through my IP number if I lie about someone and defame him or her. I am simply not going to do that and risk my assets. I chose my words very carefully my entire 2.5 years. I have been involved in much litigation during my lifetime and very familiar with the laws of my state and my country. I make every attempt to be a law abiding citizen.

Attacking handles of idiots who attack me is not the same as attacking real people for no reason. I have questioned former Captain Robert Marshall's double dipping at taxpayer expense. I made it clear over and over again that he is NOT doing anything illegal. Only that he is taking advantage of a corrupt pension system. Did I ever cuss on Mr. Marsahll? Did I ever say anything negative about him?

I admire the man for his athletic and intellectual abilities. I use him as an example why it is a shame to retire such high caliber police at age 52 and pay them Big Fat Pensions.

If police and firefighters knew that they would have to get civilian jobs after age 52 since full pensions would not be available till age 70 just like Social Security, I suspect POs and FFs would be motivated to be healthier, more physically active, and strive to increase their education and knowledge throughout their careers.

The situation right now guarantees them $6-8k in pension retirement funds per month at the young age of 52. Many of them get fat and lazy awaiting that retirement day....knowing they can sit in their rocking chairs on their balconies having a beer and a cigar while wasting the rest of their lives away looking at the Heavenly Skies that they hope will one day engulf them. No wonder America is no longer a productive society. No wonder we are no longer number one. No wonder the Chinese are kicking our behinds.

And what a shame that we have borrowed hundreds of billions from the Chinese to pay our expenses which include these Big Fat Pensions for almost every government employee. Yes, the system is a DISASTER and will IMPLODE and those are not my words.

Thank you.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 16, 2009 1:41 AM
A few bloggers asked him to release my name and said they would love to come to my front door. There is no paranoia here. This is all documented on this blog site.

----------

Please point us to the exact spot this occured

----------
Taxes wrote: I am not the researcher on this blog site. Experienced is. Ask him to find it for you. He was blogging at the time. I am always moving forward and have only reviewed one thread in 2.5 years. I have no time to look backwards.

I have a good memory and I am sure that or some variation of it was said.
------------------------------------------------------

It just keeps getting better and better Taxes, if I was you I wouldn't want to look in the past either. First you make a statement which you can't back up, then you claim to have a good memory! I guess we'll just add this to the long list of unsubstantiated claims you make. It was a simple question, and I was asking where this incident occured on the blog - I'm not saying it did or didn't happen.

You see Taxes, whenever you post something we bloggers always need to double check your sources. Nothing personal, just comes from your past behavior and credibility problem. Just because you write it doesn't make it true - I don't recall this claim that people wanted to come to your front door. Like Reagan used to say, "trust but verify".

I can't wait to read who you bump into today. Perhaps you will meet a tax attorney, or a venture capitalist or maybe an old policeman friend. Each of them will no doubt give you inside information about how Naperville is about to implode due to all the mis management and financial decay.

Taxes –

“I have no time to look backwards.”

That didn’t work for Mark McGuire and it won’t for you, either. That statement seems to be the anthem for those unwilling to face their pasts. You don’t have time to “look backwards” but you’re the queen of all things Napergate? You certainly had plenty of time to research the past on that topic.

See, Taxes, credibility is a funny thing. Did you “run into” your retired fireman acquaintance at the beach? Are you going to see him again soon at the gym? Or is this just all in your head? Does he even exist, or did you figure you could “relate” to a fireman and make him up? Given your past, nobody really knows.

Have fun at the beach, in bars, wondering about the hot dog cart guy, or wherever your imagination takes you today.

T.B.

By Anonymous on June 15, 2009 9:57 PM

For my part, I've gotten past being annoyed at your antics, and am just sitting back watching you destroy your self. Experienced and others have long understood that your credibility is non-existent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I am glad I annoyed you at one time. Did not think I was capable of annoying anyone.

All you guys can say is my credibility is non-existent. I post with many details and facts. You have yet to shatter my credibility using details and facts that contradict my own.

None of you have been able to do that. What I see is a bunch of parrots repeating each other. He or she is not credible. He or she is not credible. He or she is not credible. You all sound like a bunch of broken records incapable of thinking for yourselves. Depending on Head Parot, Experienced, whose memory cells are fried, to lead you into your daily chants and rants. Honestly, that is all you guys do....rant and chant....rant and chant....

I present facts like I did at 538pm today. Did anyone try to dissect my facts as not credible? The best anyone can do is be a Stooge and say I did not run into my Firefighter acquaintence. I did run into him at Centennial Beach today at 3:15pm but he took the day off from the health club tonight. Why is it so hard for people here to believe I know a firefighter? This is not a new story. I have mentioned him for nearly 2 years on and off.

And he is an honest firefighter that tells the truth. He got a promotion and raise just before he retired as is apparently customary in the Lisle-Woodridge Fire Dept. He invited me to his two retirement parties. One at the firehouse and one at a banquet hall off Rt. 53. I was unable to attend either. I really wish I could have. It would have been nice to see the pension system operating right before my eyes.

I don't know how the Naperville Fire Dept. operates as far as farewell retirement parties. I have no inside information and never made any allegations that the NFD operates like the L-W Fire Department. But I did run into a friend at the health club tonight who lives in Woodridge who told me taxes there are also outrageous and he wants to get out of Woodridge. If you talk to people about issues like taxation they will actually talk back to you and give you their viewpoints.

Maybe everyone else talks about Madonna and her new adopted child from the African Continent. That is OK but don't be surprised when I learn new things about taxes and pensions every day. Maybe you choose to watch 162 White Sox Games while I try to learn and research issues involving high taxation and the root cause of high taxation.

If you have been reading this blog for so long as you have stated, Anonymous, you would or should have something worthwhile to say. You have nothing worthwhile to say.

You people are probably the same people that mocked the Napergate Man and he made you all eat crow.

I hope to make you eat a second serving of crow one day.

Hopefully, it will be sooner than later.

By Anonymous on June 15, 2009 5:33 PM
Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 15, 2009 5:05 PM
A few bloggers asked him to release my name and said they would love to come to my front door. There is no paranoia here. This is all documented on this blog site.

----------

Please point us to the exact spot this occured

========================================================================================================================================

I am not the researcher on this blog site. Experienced is. Ask him to find it for you. He was blogging at the time. I am always moving forward and have only reviewed one thread in 2.5 years. I have no time to look backwards.

I have a good memory and I am sure that or some variation of it was said.

I believe it was said under the current Moderator. Maybe he can remember as I believe he has a sound memory.

I like to enjoy life. I managed to go to Centennial Beach today. I also managed to visit the new bridge over Rt 59 near Frontier Park for the first time. I did like it and understood why it cost 2.5 million dollars. Based on the number of people using it and the fact that it was 80% financed by the Feds, I thought the City of Naperville made a good investment for a change.

I also managed to walk my dog a few miles.

I managed to go to the health club.

And I managed to have a cold beer at the Tilted Kilt where a beer never looked so good.

I think you folks need to get some kind of life and stop worrying about mine.

I can pump out these posts in minutes as I am a fast typist who relies on my memory.

I failed to make any money in the stock market today but I will try again tomorrow to see if I have better luck.

No bucks made but I had a lot of fun today. The weather was awesome.

Even the hot dog cart guy that we were bloggin about yelled as I passed by...Hot Dogs...Hot Dogs...Hot Dogs... I guess I saw him for the first time today across from Sullivan's.

And I also enjoy blogging even though I am blogging with very small minded people. Sooner or later some intellectuals will pop up on this blog site and the parots will no longer be heard.

========================================================================================================================================

PS. There is one intellectual that I admire but he/she blogs under Anonymous so I can not identify him/her but recognize his/her writing style. Let us hope we get a few more like him/her.

Old rabbit hat says: Again, my case is closed.
That's 3 times today that you've 'closed' your case. I think that you do not know the meaning of that phrase. You keep saying the same tired things over and over, ignoring all the points others make that undercut your positions. I think that you need a break from all of this, and soon, or you might well explode from self-aggrandizement or paranoia.
For my part, I've gotten past being annoyed at your antics, and am just sitting back watching you destroy your self. Experienced and others have long understood that your credibility is non-existent, and you seem driven to prove that is the case, over and over and over again. I am a long time reader of this site, and have posted only a few times, but decided that this one was worth it. So, rabbit hat, take a break from all of this, find a new topic to get all manic about and we'll be waiting to hear who you ran into on your summer vacation. Could be anyone. Could be everyone! Whoever it is, ask them if they can help you get out of your mom's basement.

Experienced,

Once again you are not differentiating companies honoring old pension agreements from companies that not longer give them to new employees.

Most corps did give them out at one time in the past.

Most corps have now swapped them for 401ks.

Wipe you own nose with your own mistakes.

And fix your memory cells that can not even remember to insert your handle....you are losing it my friend...lol...love ya too!!!

By Anonymous ONE on June 15, 2009 7:47 PM

And by the way, how convenient that you "accidently" ran into your fireman friend today and he tells you that NFD firemen get a good nights sleep more often than not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is my fireman aquaintence and not friend.

Yes, I ran into him accidentally at Centennial Beach today.

But I see him at least 3 to 4 times a week at the health club.

We work out at the same time every night. So I run into him quite a lot.

There is a 50% chance I will see him again tonight in a few minutes. I think you lose your own credibility when you try to make nothing into something.

I even asked him again to try to find out what kind of deficit the Lisle Woodridge Firefighter Pension fund was in for me today. He said he would try to find out for me.

He told me that he was informed if everything collapsed today at L-W today they would be able to meet 72% of their current obligations. He had misuderstood my initial question of what the current pension liability deficit was for his former department. So he is going to take a second stab at it.

If people like you A-One would get out in the real world, you could meet real people and maybe get us real answers.

I am sorry but your credibility is the ZERO...ZILCH.

You contribute nothing to this discussion by expending your energy attacking your fellow bloggers. You are pretty much a useless blogger. Nothing more or less than a STOOGE on this blog site.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 14, 2009 11:32 PM

If 9% of private companies remain giving pensions that makes my point. The pensions are gradually becoming obsolete and unaffordable.

--------------------------

Peanut Brain

Just because I only listed 9 companies doesn't mean that there aren't more. It just means that I got tired once I had made my point that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. Don't throw down a challenge that you can't win.

Here's some more:

AK Steel

GE

Lockheed Martin

Pfizer

United States Steel Corporation

Verizon

If you want more, let me know.

Still love ya

Experienced

PS: Do you really think the other posters believe that the City fears you so much that they pay someone to monitor your web usage and show what an utter fool you really are? Get real. I do this to get a few moments of entertainment each day. I told you, I really enjoy wiping your nose in your mistakes.

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 14, 2009 11:32 PM

How Schools Pad Pensions
How the scheme works:

Teacher Pensions Put Strain On State: End-of-career salary spikes inflate costs for Illinois retirement fund by Diane Rado and Darnell Little, Chicago Tribune, Sunday, June 29, 2003, page

1. "More than 70 percent of full-time teachers and school staff who retired in the suburbs and Downstate Illinois in the last decade pocketed double-digit pay increases and other perks shortly before leaving--costing state taxpayers millions in higher pension payments, a Tribune investigation has found.

-------------------------------

This WAS a real good article and it MADE a real good point when it was written. There is a problem in that it is 6 years old and dated.

If you read the article what it was saying is that for most teachers that were retiring at that time, in their last year they received a spike in pay pursuant to a program that was backed by the legislature and school boards to buy out more senior teachers who were at the top of the pay scale and replace them with teachers fresh out of college who would be at the bottom of the scale. It was an incentive program to get teachers to retire early and cut salary costs. But for the program, the teachers would have had to teach 5 more years to gain the same pension benefits. What happened is that the legislature traded the teachers more pay in their last year to even out the 5 years of loss of service credits due to retiring 5 years early.

It was in effect for a few years only and is no longer available to teachers. For most actual teachers, it was not the doubling of pay in their last years by elevating in class teachers to administrative positions that was highlighted in the case of the one teacher on the website. Nor was it the high 6 digit salaries paid to administrators. It was the buy out provision of the state statute in their very last year.

I guess it's an economic debate: Was it better to pay the high salaries for more years or entice the teachers to retire early and save the pay differential. I don't know which is more costly because it's not my field. The teachers by retiring early left with the same benefits but could not draw on their pensions for 10 years instead of 5 years. (Teachers had to normally teach to 55 and couldn't draw on pensions until 59 1/2 or suffer tax penalties. Under the buy out, they could retire at 50 with full benefits but still had to wait until 59 1/2.)

I still love ya

Experienced

I don't care if 100 people try to destroy my credibility

You have already done a good job of that on your own. You have zero credibility.

And by the way, how convenient that you "accidently" ran into your fireman friend today and he tells you that NFD firemen get a good nights sleep more often than not. I guess this adds to your "fact finding" and "investigative" skill that you are so fond of bragging about. Well done Taxes, you are quite the citizen journalist!

By Anonymous on June 15, 2009 1:56 PM
Taxes says: "If my information was not accurate, I would not be challenged by bloggers day and night."

Who could possibly believe this? Doesn't this seem to fly in the face of logic, or is it something that T3 has pulled out of his... rabbit hat?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My information is very accurate.

1. It is obtained from sources like CM Bob. His posts were made here and I repeated the exact numbers he provided. I memorized them.

2. Police Pension Fund Manager Gary Menconi made the statement that police and fire pensions in Illinios were a disaster and an implosion was awaiting us. He even blogged with us and made this statement in the August Pension Thread.

3. There are numerous sites in the Blog World which attack police, fire and teacher pensions funds. I gave a sample verbatim a few posts back.

4. The Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times have been warning us from as far back as 2003 that pensions in Illinois are corrupt. Despite their research and exposure, teachers continue obtaining 20-25% raises their last 4 years in an attempt to fatten their retirement pensions at taxapayer expense. Teachers get an average of the last few years. Police and Firefighters get the final and highest salary to base their pensions on.

5. I went to Centennial Beach today and ran into my firefighter acquaintence accidentally. He assured me with 9 fire stations in Naperville and at least 6 ambulances, the fire figthers were getting a good nights sleep more often than not.

6. My acquaintence stated firefighters work an average of 53 hours per week. Most college graduates who are not hourly employees, work at least that many hours per week. Many work much more.

7. Thus the calculations of our firefighter were biased and inaccurate. Did anyone expect him to admit that his job has any perks while the starting salary is under attack for being the one of the highest, if not the highest for any group of college graduates in the nation?

I have strong beliefs. Just because 10 people say it ain't so, does not make it so. The ten people could be people collecting pensions and trying to justify their Big Fat Pensions.

My information is supported by actual facts. By testimonials of real people who have blogged here. Of real people I meet in real life.

I don't care if 100 people try to destroy my credibility. As long as I am honest and factual I will destroy the credibility of 100 people before they destroy mine.

Let us not forget this entire town tried to destroy the credibility of the Napergate Man. Let us not forget he ended up destroying the credibility of the entire town.

Again, my case is closed.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 15, 2009 5:05 PM
A few bloggers asked him to release my name and said they would love to come to my front door. There is no paranoia here. This is all documented on this blog site.

----------

Please point us to the exact spot this occured

By T.B. on June 15, 2009 1:59 PM
Taxes -

I doubt anyone on The Potluck is trying to figure out who anyone else is. Frankly, I don’t think anyone really cares. If you believe someone’s trying to figure out who you are then you’re being a bit paranoid.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few people tried to figure who I am including Experienced. He claimed he knew who I was and was attempting to blackmail me into silence with his insinuations.....such as he did not want any harm to come my way. Thankfully, I knew all along he did not know who I was or I would have felt uncomfortable.....possibly threatened. I knew I had succeeded in throwing him bones with my fictional characters to have him barking up all the wrong allies. That was my intention and goal.

A few bloggers asked him to release my name and said they would love to come to my front door. There is no paranoia here. This is all documented on this blog site.

While police are mostly professional, they are not always professional. If you rub them the wrong way, they will try to destroy you.

The Napergate Man rubbed them the wrong way by running LEGAL sting operations. They went on a vendetta to destroy him. They even endorsed the legal department's help in an attempt to destroy him.

While I was aware of his 3-0 victory in the Illinios Appellate Counrt, I was not aware that he won his civil rights case 2-1 before the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Need, I remind you TB, that it was you who did the research and uncovered this Federal Appeals Case. Apparently, the Napergate Man was not allowed to speak possibly due to a finacial settlement that stipulated his silence, and that could be why he never revealed his settlement or Civil Rights victory. At least not to the best of my recollection based on reading his Napergate Ads.

If you can win a Civil Rights Case against the City Police for abusing you, that means you were abused. The cards are stacked heavily against you when you try to take on the Police and City Hall. Most people don't even try to take on City Hall because it is almost impossible to beat City Hall. Just ask anyone you know about the odds of beating City Hall. Most know they are ZERO to ZILCH.

While many were not around in the Napergate Days, most of us were around in the Furstenau Days. We all can agree that the City of Naperville was not going to leave one dollar unspent in the defense of the Furstenau Lawsuit. They hired a bunch of heavy hitting and powerful Chicagoland Law Firms.

In the Napergate Man they also used everything in their power to defeat him including hiring 3 powerful law firms and using the in-house lawyers including Chief Attorney Michael Roth and and Head Prosecutor Francis Cuneo. They failed. According to your research, it only took $74,000 or something around that number to defeat City Hall despite the millions they spent on the Napergate Trials.

So if you and others want to make statements that the police dept. will not abuse you or mistreat you if you take them on, you also don't have any CREDIBILITY. It has already proven they will....and in Higher Courts of Law.

If the police dept. does not give most civilians a ticket for driving on the yellow line momentarily, but use it as selective harrassment against those they don't like, it is a Civil Rights Violation.

Proving it is harassment is almost impossible because they will always claim they are simply enforcing the law. Apparently the Napergate Man was a unique individual who was able to document everything and prove in courts of law, that the City Police, City Legal Dept. and City Hall all conspired to harass him.

Sorry, I had to bring this case back up again.

But it was you folks that stated our Police Dept. would never harass anyone. That they will always be at your service no matter what. That they are professional.

I have every reason to believe they would harass someone who is fighting to eliminate their Big Fat Pensions. Especially if he or she were effective and making some inroads.

I have a good reason to be anonymous. I have a right to be fictional character(s) to keep them off my tail. And I have done that proudly and with no regrets.

I am not here to win a popularity contest. I am not here interested in boosting the ego of an Anonymous person. Or a handle that I can identify is ME. Obviously, I could care less for any handle I have chosen. I trashed them all. Soon, I will trash Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes when I get bored of it or can think of a better handle for a specific thread. The choice of my handles were never to lie or deceive anyone. They was simply to help me remain as anonymous as possible.

Again, I rest my case.

“If the firefighters found out who I was, they may not want to put out a fire in my home...or possibly delay service to someone who thinks they don't deserve their Big Fat Pensions.

If the police officers found out who I was, they may want to ticket me every time I did not activate my turn signal or drive on a yellow line.”

Taxes, the firefighters and police would still respond if you needed them. They’re more professional and dedicated than you give them credit for. And the cops should give you tickets for failing to use your turn signal or drive on the yellow line—both are traffic infractions.

T.B.

Taxes -

There’s a difference between using a pseudonym and creating a fictional character. While I and others may use a pseudonym (or initials) for anonymity’s sake, we are still real people expressing our opinions. We don’t try to be a milkman or a neighbor in an attempt to conjure up what their opinions may be. How can you “relate” to a milkman if you haven’t been one? How can you have “inside information” from a fictional character? If you can’t see the difference between a pseudonym and your fictional characters then I think JQP is wrong and your intelligence is lacking, not just your desire for honest debate.

I doubt anyone on The Potluck is trying to figure out who anyone else is. Frankly, I don’t think anyone really cares. If you believe someone’s trying to figure out who you are then you’re being a bit paranoid.

I don’t for an instant believe that your past motivation for the use of fictional characters was to remain anonymous. I think it was to stroke your own ego and make your opinions appear to have merit in the eyes of others. It’s sad, really.

You can’t un-ring a bell. You can apologize all you want for your past transgressions, but that doesn’t restore your credibility in an instant. As you now see, credibility is something which is built over time, but can be torn down in an instant. This is yet another reason to pick one pseudonym or handle and stick with it for the long haul.

You accuse others of failing to debate in an honest and straight-forward fashion, yet when someone points out some of your facts may be incorrect you attack them as biased or somehow dishonest (“sympathetic to…corruption”). Just like your old Napergatian posts of old, there’s no middle ground allowed—if someone’s not for you, then they must be against you. Heaven forbid they just have a differing opinion, right?

Remember, if you ask a stupid question; be prepared for a stupid answer. If you throw down a gauntlet (“Name one Fortune 500 company outside Chrysler and GM that are still giving pensions”), be prepared for someone to show you the folly of your ways.

T.B.

Taxes says: "If my information was not accurate, I would not be challenged by bloggers day and night."

Who could possibly believe this? Doesn't this seem to fly in the face of logic, or is it something that T3 has pulled out of his... rabbit hat?

Anonymous,

That is great to hear but I am not taking any chances.

One thing for sure is police officers in this town give professional courtesy to those who they like and deny professional courtesy to those who they dislike.

This is a fact....very established over Naperville's long history.

While I can tell you mean well, you are very wrong in your assumptions.

I will continue to work OT to remain anonymous.

If they don't know who I am am, I know they will be there for me for sure. And they should since I pay over 60k in real estate taxes.

If they know who I am, there is no guarantee they will be there for me.

I rest my case again....but thank you for your lack of hostility.

Taxes wrote:

It seems hard to get through to John Q. Public. I am taking one side of the debate. He is welcome to take the other side of the debate. Please explain this to him.

I'm not going to debate you on this because doing so is like boxing with one of those inflatable punching clown toys: no matter how hard you get punched, you never stay down because you have a base that is heavily weighted in questionable suppositions, and the rest of you is filled with air. You make essentially the same post over and over and over again ad infinitum, complete with factual holes and logical flaws that have been pointed out many times by numerous bloggers, but you keep coming back.

One of your problems here is that you think this is a debate that has only two sides. It's not. It's a discussion, with many shades of gray. Moreover, I've never said I am opposed to any changes in any of the various public employee pensions. In fact, I think some changes are in order. But I won't engage in a discussion with you on what changes I think are appropriate because there is absolutely no middle ground in your approach. And I know I'm not your only "enemy" here who actually shares some points of agreement with you. But your tactics of never giving any ground on any point, no matter how minor; of using exaggeration and hyperbole and never owning up to it; and of regularly accusing your opponents of having ulterior motives, all of this is counter-productive. You've alienated people who might be potential allies. You've been your own worst enemy.

You have another, more serious, problem here though. As Anonymous ONE pointed out, you don't have any credibility. It is a vast understatement (some might call it a lie) to say that the only thing you did wrong was "to pad (sic) one of my characters on the back with another on a few occassions." Your deception went far, far deeper than this, as anyone who's read any of the old Napergate threads knows, and when Chris finally called you on it, you lied about it. Then you continued to lie about it even after Chris posted a few dozen of the different handles you had used, all with the same IP address, and most of them pretending to be unique individuals. Anonymous ONE's post was right on the mark, and with every preposterous effort you make to defend what you did you sink deeper into the mire.

-JQP

Fine Taxes, Whatever! If you think pretending to be a "police officer" and then posting as if you were an actual officer of the law is simply making a point that says a lot about your motivations. You also posed as a nurse and then gave supposed information about the life of a nurse, you also posed as a restaurant owner who since retired and moved to Chicago.

In each of these 3 false postings you gave much more than opinion, you gave what you led everyone to believe were relevant facts concerning your "profession" based on a lie that you actually were that person, and worked in that profession.

If many of us now continue to hold these falsehoods against you and question your credibility what do you expect? My question now is: Were you lying then, or are you lying now? (most likely both).

And as far as knowing which aliases were you - Chris did that for us already by pointing out at least 50 aliases you pretended to be. If anyone needs further proof of your deception simply go to the archive titled, "Roland Burris Your Next Senator" and look at the list of aliases Chris provided. Naperville Sun editors on December 31, 2008 2:22 AM
http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/12/your_next_senator_roland_burri.html

Armed with this list go to any of the Napergate threads and you will see the extent this "anonymous" blogger had gone to try to promote his misguided cause. http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/napergate/

It goes way beyond his claim that this was just to get a point across, or some single incident. If you read these archives and know that many of the characters are the same person it is one of those "Aha" moments - also a little creepy. And as I have said, goes to your credibility problem today.

TTT - you know what's awesome about this great City of Naperville? No matter what you post here on a blog and even if they found out who you were they would still provide great service all the time! The police will still protect you, the fire fighters will still rescue you. That's what you take for granted. One day you're going to need them and they will be there for you regardless of who you are or what you've said.

Anonymous One,

No one on this site is their real selves except for maybe Tom Higgins and possibly one more person.

I have a right to use fictional characters to get my points across. The majority of fictional characters I am accused of being are not even me. So unless you know which fictional characters were me and which were not me, you can not judge my credibility unless you want to make a fool of yourself.

Aren't you a fictional character as Anonymous One?

Have you told us who you really are?

Do we know where you live and what your occuptation really is?

Almost everyone on a blog site, blogs as a fictional character.

The only thing I did wrong and I admitted to, is pad one of my characters on the back with another on a few occassions. I have apologized for that more than once.

Most times I was using one character at a time.

I believe in August there was a pension thread that I used Another Anonymous for 35 straight days and only Another Anonymous.(This is the only thread I have ever reveiwed because the name Gary Menconi mentioned below led me to it.)

So most of the allegations against me are highly exaggerated.

At times I felt like using multi characters to get my points across.

If I can relate to a milkman, and I want to be milkman on this blog site to express his feelings, I should have that right.

If I want to be my neighbor for one day, and express her feelings towards high taxation one day, I should have that right.

Most times when choosing a name, I simply pulled it out of a rabbit hat just as I pulled my phrase handles out of a rabbit hat. Their was never an intent to lie. The intent was to remain as Anonymous as possible and not allow anyone to piece together who I am.

If the firefighters found out who I was, they may not want to put out a fire in my home...or possibly delay service to someone who thinks they don't deserve their Big Fat Pensions.

If the police officers found out who I was, they may want to ticket me every time I did not activate my turn signal or drive on a yellow line.

That was my true motivation behind using fictional characters. I wanted to make it impossible to be identified. That still remains my goal and if I have to throw people like Experienced a few bones here and there to keep him off my forensic track, I will do that. You could call them lies, but I call them bones to throw off the scent....lol....

Again, this is an Anonymous Blog Site where you choose your handle and character. You can be who you want....that is the beauty of it all.

Most people criticising me have used multi handles themselves. They are the biggest hpocrits on earth. They know all the details of my blogging 2 years ago, but if you go look at a thread 2 years ago, their current handle does not exist. Dah!

This is not a court of law where I have sworn to my name and address and to be non-fictional. This is a blog site. For Heaven's Sake!!!

Personally, I feel most of my attacks have been by people who have an interest in their Big Fat Pensions. All my information on pensions has been 99.99% accurate obtained from very reliable sources like CM Bob. Experienced just puts a twist here and theren on what I say. Experienced in my opinion is a fake. I have a strong feeling he works for the legal dept. of the City of Naperville and pretends to be a forensic accountant. He is protecting his Big Fat Pension and that of everyone in the city. The city may be allowing him to do his research on city time at taxpayer expense. One day he will slip up and be uncovered. Mark my words! His memory is failing by the day.

If my information was not accurate, I would not be challenged by bloggers day and night. I get the most responses by far out of any blogger on this site. The reason is because my information is credible. It is disturbing. The reason is because government pension holders are trying to hold on to their Big Fat Pensions. If my message was nonsense, it would not get a response. Many bloggers post nonsense and get no response. My posts can not be ignored even when their is an orchestrated attempt to ignore them. You participated in this orchestrated attempt, Anonymous One, as one of the Three Stooges and here you are back again breaking your oath of ignoring me. What kind of man are you? You can't even be true to your word for two weeks? You urge others to boycott my posts and you can not even practice what you preach. You sound like a spineless human being to me.

I posted some quotes about Big Fat Pensions obtained from the Chicago Tribue, Sun-Times and other sources that reaveal corruption in the pension system far more than I could have ever revealed. Yes, maybe I am not credible because I did not expose the degree of corruption. I will try to do better and expose the degree in the future.

You and other bloggers have chosen to ignore the massively corrupt pension system and continue attacking the messenger instead of the devastating message.

"The pension system is a disaster and it is just matter of time before it implodes."

Again the above statement did not come from me. It came from Gary Menconi, who was the former Woodridge Pensions Fund Manager. I am writing this quote from my peanut memory so if one word is off please don't judge my credibility. I don't have a city paying me for my time to research every word I write like Experienced.

I give my sources credit and you want to believe Experienced who has nothing but loose screws in his head. A guy who consistently can not even remember to insert his handle and claims others have peanut memories.

He has probably lost all the hair on his head due to his stressful job which he claims is forensic accounting, thus allowing the sunshine to fry most of his memory cells.

I rest my case.

Many bloggers don't like me because I used more than one handle in the past. They can't get over it. So no matter how much sense I make they will simply attack me as it is easier than disputing or debating my message.

Actually I don't believe you because I do not have any trust in what you say. No one has to like anyone here, is there anyone that you like? You constantly bring up your use of handles in the past, but you gloss over the fact that you used the multi handles in an attempt to deceive (lie!). You claimed to be a "police officer" and then proceeded to post as if you had inside information, you also claimed to be a restaurant owner who moved to Chicago, which also led to false posts about doing business in Naperville. You made up aliases and then proceeded to give them inside information to share with the group - I'll give you a break and just call it deceptive although most would call it outright lying. (Wasn't your alias "ameena" supposed to be a nurse?)

Chris outed you and after a few weeks of denial you finally fessed up. Your problem is not likeability, but credibility. I haven't engaged you in weeks because you haven't given anything new - it's the same old stuff. Experienced has sliced you up in so many ways you would be better off blogging from a deli than from the Dunkin Donuts.

To use a sports metaphor you are like an athlete who was proven to have used steroids. No matter what kind of mea culpa guys like Manny Ramirez and Rafael Palermo give, it doesn't change the fact that they cheated in the past, and in the same light no matter how you slice it you were unfairly "deceptive" in the past so why should we believe you now?

(and don't confuse this with any rules about posting under different handles - I am not arguing this point - there is no rule about using different handles. My argument is when your different handles carried on conversations with each other, and claimed inside knowledge which was later proven to be a lie).

Thw below is verbatim from IllinoisLoop.Org

It pretty much says what I have been saying.

Challenge it Experienced. I dare you. Love me or not.

And the statistics I used for the firefighters were provided by Blogger Firefighter who claimed to be a member of the Naperville Fire Dept. No need to challenge me. Challenge him if you don't like his numbers.

If 9% of private companies remain giving pensions that makes my point. The pensions are gradually becoming obsolete and unaffordable. And you ignore the fact that private corporations start doling out their pensions at 65 and not 52. Big Huge Difference! You also ignore the fact that these pensions are those of grandfathered employees and some of the companies you list are not giving them out to new hirees. Your response is so weak you need to resort to name calling. That shows how classless and ignorant you are. I will not lower myself into the gutter with you and call you names. The intelligent bloggers can judge for themselves who knows what he is talking about.

You know nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!

All you do is babble! Babble! Babble! Babble!

And constantly forget to insert your moniker while accusing others of having peanut memories...lol...

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

How Schools Pad Pensions
How the scheme works:

Teacher Pensions Put Strain On State: End-of-career salary spikes inflate costs for Illinois retirement fund by Diane Rado and Darnell Little, Chicago Tribune, Sunday, June 29, 2003, page

1. "More than 70 percent of full-time teachers and school staff who retired in the suburbs and Downstate Illinois in the last decade pocketed double-digit pay increases and other perks shortly before leaving--costing state taxpayers millions in higher pension payments, a Tribune investigation has found. Using such salary spikes to boost pensions is legal in Illinois but highly unusual and sometimes outlawed elsewhere ... The perks have been doled out even as the economy soured, local districts battled deficits, and the Teachers' Retirement System ... struggled with shortfalls.

"But though local districts pay for the perks initially, the cost of the inflated pensions that result is spread to taxpayers statewide, who largely fund the TRS system.

"[B]ig pay increases pad pensions because the highest salary years are used to calculate retirement pay for years to come....

"The salary of Schaumburg High School business education teacher Martin Barski rose from $91,151 to $142,536 in his final years with District 211, district records show. At 55, Barski retired last year with a pension of about $72,000 ...

"'This is insanity,' said William Huley, president of Arlington Heights-based Northwest Tax Watch. 'It's all about padding [pensions] at taxpayer expense. The salary and benefits are out of control.'"

Big Pay Boosts In Last Years Blow Out Retirement Packages by Tim Novak, Chicago Sun-Times, July 13, 2003. In this spectacular front-page package, district superintendents come under fire for lavish benefit and retirement packages. In addition, the Sun-Times carried this caption ...

Henry Bangser, New Trier High School's superintendent, is looking forward to retirement in 2006. And why wouldn't he? A flurry of 20 percent pay raises will hike his annual pension as high as $232,500. That's more than governors get. And even if you don't live in Bangser's rich North Shore district, you'll pay for it.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I hope you are listening, Experienced.

I hope you are listening, Moderator.

I hope you are listeing, John Q. Public.

This time I did not use my own words since you seem to attack me as opposed to my message. Let me use quotes from now on so you can not attack me as this is not a game. We are talking about people losing their homes to foreclosure because of these Big Fat Pensions.

Taxes, Chris has asked you several times to quit bringing up pensions in every thread. You have been doing the same thing for over a year, except now you can't use 20 aliases to back yourself up because you got outed. Most everyone here knows about your multiple postings of the past, and believe me, you have absolutely no credibility what so ever. Why not honor Chris' wishes and move on, instead of using every thread to promote your hate for anyone who has or is going to get a better pension than you? It really comes off as class envy.

Moderator Chris,
I have not even began ripping into the school pension retirement system. You would be shocked how these teachers and administrators get huge raises and promotions in the last 4 years of their employment to almost double their pensions before retirement.....at your expense and mine.

It surprises me you want me to lay off this issue while the corruption is rampant in the State of Illinois. Let us educate every new blogger that comes on your site. Maybe 100 bloggers will tell 1000 neighbors who will tell 10,000 neighbors and we can begin a grass roots movement like the Napergate Man began and hopefully be effective as he was.

I will give it some time off to give people a break but I would like to rip into the school pension system if and when you give me the GREEN LIGHT.

This is information I have not covered yet. It is all new information that has not been discussed to the best of my knowledge...certainly not by me.

So far I have been focused on FFs, POs, and City Employees.

I am sure the salaries of those 2 superintendents were new territory for this Blog Site. They were given to me by a neighbor who posts on School Pension Corruption Blog Sites. I never delved into that area so I am a little surprised you feel we reached the point of moving on.

Honestly, I feel we are just starting to expose all the government pensions systems that are corrupt. All the government salaries that are excessive. Maybe if we can get enough people aboard we can prevent a Chapter 9 reorganization by cities in Illinois and the State of Illinios.

I respect that you disagree with me on the firefighters. But the bottom line is they start at a salary higher than the highest undergraduates coming out of college. And I think it is unfair that they get to top that with a Big Fat Pension and Benefits combined with an early retirement.

While you are a young man, I am an older man. I was around when the purpose of the pension system was to recruit police officers, teachers and fire fighters since they were paid substatially less than the private sector. The pensions were an equalizer. It helped recruit top notch POs, teachers and FFs. I was not against them 30 years ago when you were still a fetus in your Mom's womb. I was actually for them.

Now the public sector makes more than the private sector. Therefore Big Fat Pensions have no place in modern society. I think based on what I am reading on your blog site, we have a long way to go before we educate the sleepy Naperville populance. Our work is cut out for us.

By Chris Magee, moderator on June 14, 2009 6:52 PM
Yes, I think some of the superintendents are paid too much, but don't try to get me to back you up on your firefighter criticism because I don't agree with you at all. I know this will fall on deaf ears, but you need to move on from constantly harping on the pensions. You've said everything you're going to say many times and everyone knows what you think. You can only say it so many times and then it's time to move on. I think we reached that point a while back.

-------------------

Amen!

And Experienced, the fact you dig up all this information to support corruption in government indicates you are either a government employee or sympathetic to this corruption. You can not say you are neutral when you are digging information that supports or justifies the corruption.

--------------

Nope, I'm just yanking your chain by pointing out how wrong you are on your facts. I told you that is what I do. If you would get your facts straight, I wouldn't have anything to do. You say to name a fortune 500 company that still has pensions, and I name you 9--8 in the top 100. You talk about nurses, I show you nurses who get what firefighters and police officers get. I have even started yet on your false statistics on fire calls. Just haven't had time yet.

The more you misstate the facts, the more I will expose you as a blow heart and peanut brain.

Still Love ya.

Experienced

Moderator Chris,

It seems hard to get through to John Q. Public. I am taking one side of the debate. He is welcome to take the other side of the debate. Please explain this to him.

If he thinks the School Superintendents should make over 400k annually or more than the President of the USA, he should defend their right to receive so much. Why is he always discussing me instead of my message?

If he thinks it is OK to pay these Superintendents $300,000 per year in pensions at age 55, out of his taxes, he should speak up and defend them.

Just out of curiosity, Moderator Chris, do you have any objection paying these Superintendents over 300k in pension from your pay check while you make maybe one fifth of that while working your behind off 15 hours a day form 11am to 2am? I know you don't work every minute of those 15 hours but neither do the fire fighters. They even admit to taking 3 hour naps something I know you don't do during your 15 hour shift each day. Plus you work 7 days a week.
Yes, if a firefighter considers whatever he is doing "work" while waiting for a call to duty, I guess you can consider whatever your doing "work" until the next post comes that you can review and update. It is really very similar in my opinion.

Many bloggers don't like me because I used more than one handle in the past. They can't get over it. So no matter how much sense I make they will simply attack me as it is easier than disputing or debating my message.

Maybe you can shed some light, Moderator Chris. I bet if you tell them you feel that paying a Superintendent 300k in pensions at your/their expense at the young age of 55 is unfair or at least questionable, they will suddenly agree with you.

I am doing some research on school pensions and you and the bloggers will be shocked when I publish my findings.

I am just in no mood to publish them today because I fear being accused of hogging the blog site since I blogged a lot yesterday and today.

But on a slow day, I will publish them. For now I am going for a swim to let others hog the blog if they so choose.

I hope you shed some light on this topic. I would love to read your opinion when I come back from my swim.

Taxes,

That was not an attack; that was an observation. You never, ever, admit to any validity in any point in any of the posts of those who disagree with you, and reasonable counter-arguments to your positions go right over your head. If I wanted to insult you, I would say that this is due to extreme obtuseness on your part. However, I believe you are a fairly bright person, so the only conclusion I am left with is that you really aren't interested in rational debate. Which is why it would be pointless for me to respond to your challenge.

-JQP

By Anonymous on June 14, 2009 11:36 AM
All of the nurses at Cook County, Veteran's, State of Illinois (mental) and U of I hospitals have pensions.

Love Ya, Too

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Experienced,

These are basically government hospitals or heavily subsidized government hospitals.

If government is involved we have corruption. We have Big Fat Pensions.

While there are a handful of PRIVATE corps which still pay pensions, they are phasing their pensions out gradually. Some of these corps are honoring pensions to older employees but phasing them out for new employees. And none of them allow their employees to retire at age 52. Can you name one? Do any of them give 75% like fire fighters or police officers or 85% like in some teachers cases in the early to mid fifties of ones age?

I will post something about teachers to show you how corrupt their pension system is, shortly and in another post.

I am not only against FFs or POs. I am against all pensions to government employees. I am against high teacher and school administrative salaries. I want the government employees on the system of Social Security System that they devised for private citizens. What is good for us, should be good for them. What is good for the goose is good for the geese. They think they are superior to us.

Check the below salaries.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Governor State of Illinois $150,691

Mayor City of Chicago $210,000

Secretary-General United Nations $225,000

President of United States $400,000

District Sup Homewood-Flossmoor 233 $402,331

District Sup Niles Twp 219 $411,511

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you imagine the Homewood-Flossmoor amd Niles Twp District School Superintendants make more than the President of the United States and twice as much as the Mayor of Chicago or the Secretary-General of the UN.

And Experienced, the fact you dig up all this information to support corruption in government indicates you are either a government employee or sympathetic to this corruption. You can not say you are neutral when you are digging information that supports or justifies the corruption.

Do you think bloggers can not see through your agenda? Do you think bloggers are naive? Stop playing games and pretending you are a neutral messenger. You are not. You are a biased messenger for pensions. I am a biased messenger for the taxpayer and against pensions. I am not ashamed of my positions. You should not be ashamed of your positions. Where are your principles? Do you have principles?

The fact that you are supportive of the corrupt pension system indicates to me you are milking the cow while the farmer is asleep and saying the wolf milked the cow. At least the Firefighter has the courage to speak bluntly and honestly express his views.

And we in Naperville will participate in paying those Supt. pensions of other towns mentioned above that will be easily over 300k a year because the school pension system is state wide. Taxes from you guys, Experienced and Firefighter, will go to pay these 300k pensions for teachers from another district so they can build their Big Fat McMansions at taxpayer expense....at your expense also. Do you support others living in a Big Fat McMansion at your expense from the taxes you give to the school system? From tax money that should be going to your children and not to subsidize 300k plus pensions for corrupt officials whose salaries are bumped in the final year to inflate these pensions even further.

Do you guys think this is fair? If you think this is fair, I think your bearings are loose......I really and honestly do!

Trust me the only reason there has not been a Tax Revolt is because the Chicagoland Media is very weak. I would like to see the Naperville Sun take a leadership role against pensions. I am surprised Sun Officials are not outraged by this nonsense as it takes money from their pockets and puts it in the pockets of corrupt government officials.

Local newspapers are afraid to take on local police and fire departments. They are afraid to take on the teachers. Maybe, they are afraid they will be harassed if they tell the truth as the Napergate Man was harassed by the Naperville Police Dept. when he became a media mouth piece and took on improprieties in the police and legal depts. of the City of Naperville.

13,000 calls divided by 200 Naperville firefighters.

That is about 65 calls a year per firefighter. With FFs working 122 days a year, that is an average one call every two days. If 2 FFs respond to each call that is an average of one call every day. I am sorry, Firefighter, that we dare to interrupt your sleep while paying you for your services and giving you a Big Fat Pension at a very young age so you can sleep 24hours/ 7 days a week if you would like in your "retirement."

That should allow you lots of nights to sleep without being disrupted during working hours, lots of sleep on your 2 consecutive days off after working one, and unlimited sleep when you retire at age 52. While making more than the highest college graudates in the nation.

Just like my former Lisle Woodridge acquaintence fire fighter told me, you guys have it as good as can be.

You have it easy and you know it, Firefighter Friend. But maybe you don't because you never really had a REAL JOB such as building highways or high rise buildings.

I can live with you making the average salary of $49,353 just like your fellow college graduates. But to make 10k more, get to sleep on the job, and then retire at age 52 with a Big Fat Pension is honestly OUTRAGEOUS.

You guys are getting away with it because the Naperville Sun is reluctant to put it on the FRONT PAGE and explain to taxpayers what has brought our taxes to the unbearable levels they finally reached. Most states and cities in the good old United States are on the verge of Chapter 9 reorganization due to the legacy costs of government employees.....very similar to what recently bought the downfall of our car manufactures and their bankruptcy despite massive government infustion to the tune of 63.4 billion dollars....again taxpayer money to deal with unafforable legacy costs.

Imagine we have a 100 year old company like GM having 178 billion dollars in debt not including the additional 50 billion bones Bush and Obama threw them. A 100 year old company should have no debt and be self-sufficient.

The common denominator between the Firefighters and GM is the unions. The unions are powerful and greedy. They will milk the taxpayers for every last penny in their possession.

Taxpayers should and will eventually revolt against this nonsense.
This blog site is controlled by a few people who bad mouth anyone who dares tell the truth.

Walk your neighborhoods and ask REAL people how they feel about high taxes due to legacy costs. I have yet to find one who thinks they are fair. Of course, I have yet to meet a firefighter on my walks.

All of the nurses at Cook County, Veteran's, State of Illinois (mental) and U of I hospitals have pensions.

Love Ya, PB

Experienced

Taxes says (among other ludicrous stuff): After reading my post please tell me why you deserve a pension and nurses don't deserve one?
As has been pointed out and pointed out, BECAUSE IT IS STATE LAW AT THIS POINT IN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rail against it all you want, but simply complaining is utterly ridiculous. Is it probably true that the police and firefighter pension systems were set up at the state level in an somewhat unfair manner? Yes. Is it possible that these pensions and retirement ages could use a bit of updating? Perhaps, it is certainly arguable, and worth rational discussion. Is Taxes constant stream of invective silly, pointless, wrong-headed and useless? Always.
See, Taxes, the point of having people in these jobs is that they're physically and mentally able, strong, fairly young and willing to take on a job that has a high potential risk factor. Note the use of the word potential in there. The levels of training are high, the levels of potential risk are many, many times what an engineer would have to face in any sort of task.
Firefights and Police have jobs that many wouldn't consider, because of the various requirements and the RISK.
Now then, Taxes will go back to his utterly ridiculous 'no deaths since the police chief on his motorcycle in the 20s' argument. Of course. But it is worth noting that the POTENTIAL is there, every day, every day.
For the record, I am not in either of these lines of work, and far from it - I respect those who choose this field, and am glad that they do so.
Taxes, grow up!

By Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes on June 13, 2009 9:59 PM

Name one Fortune 500 comapany outside Chrysler and GM that are still giving pensions

-----------------------------------

Caterpillar

John Deere

FedEx

Dow Chemical

Exxon/Mobil

DuPont

Northrop Grumman

UPS

IBM

All top 100 except Deere which is 101

-------------------------

Love Ya, PH

Experienced

Lisle Woodridge Fire Protection District runs about 6000 calls per year and protects 70,000 people in their district (from the LW web site). The Naperville Fire Department runs 13000 calls per year and protects 150,000 people both in the city and unincorporated area around the city. To draw a comparison between the two... I think you would do better comparing Naperville and Aurora, both in size and call volume. You may receive information from your friend, but he worked for a much smaller department.

As for paid on call (p.o.c.)fire departments. I once worked for a small poc fire department in the Chicago area. When I started there was no station staffing. Calls were answered by dispatch setting off pagers that the firefighter wore. It would kill me, day after day to only have one or two people show up for a tone out. Calls for assistance, during the day, were usually handled by two people and most of the time neighboring departments were called to help handle the calls (if they were available). The average time for a call to be answered was 16 mins. That department is now staffed by full-time firefighters. Almost every Chicago area fire department was poc at one time, even Lisle Woodridge. When calls for assistance go unanswered city fathers turn to full time staffing as a way to keep lawyers out of their offices.

Paid on call staffing does not work, in the Chicago area. People have jobs in other towns, employeers don't let people leave work to answer their pager, or with traffic, people can't get to the fire station in a reasonable amount of time to answer the call. And at night, many of them would turn down the pager volume, or turn off the pager all together, so not to wake their sleeping family.

As for nurses.... GOD BLESS THEM ALL. I will never say a bad word about them, nor will I try to make any comparison. HEY ARE ANGELS, ONE AND ALL. Their job is completely different from mine.

Firefighter,

My acquaintence who retired after 30 years from Lisle Woodridge told me that many nights he gets a full nights sleep. Especially, Sunday through Thursday. He described the fire fighting job as easy but had to quit to get his Big Fat Pension at the very young age of 48 while in superb condition. He got a job as a Park District Ranger almost immediately and is now double dipping while builing a second pension. It seems like public employees have the system figured out, are well connected and are playing it in every which way possible to milk the taxpayer out of his very last penny.

I think you are exaggerating a bit when you say 2-3 hour naps. True on some days. But you and I know many days you sleep as well as we do and you get that starting pay of $19.85 while sleeping one third of the time you are officially working.

You can't have your cake and eat it while making your computations. You opened the can of worms by choosing to dissect and compare your hours with an engineers hours.

I find it funny how bloggers say fire fighters and police officers can not work at older ages, yet here we have a fire fighter retiring and becoming an armed Forest Park Ranger(basically a police officer.) Sounds to me this system is corrupt and made to enrich the connected at the expense of the taxpayer.

========================================================================================================================================

JQP,

How about debating instead of engaging in personal attacks. The fire fighter seems like he is a very capable debator, intelligent and able to fend for himself.

Why don't you try to answer my question as to why society should give a firefighter a pension at age 52 while treating a nurse like she is chopped liver? Do you not believe that nurses work very hard?

JFYI, I am not a nurse.

You obviously wrote your last post before reading mine right above it.

Again, your analysis is not only biased but extremely flawed.

I had never seen someone sugar coat his job as you did yours.

After reading my post please tell me why you deserve a pension and nurses don't deserve one? Why you get to retire at age 52 and nurses don't? In my opinion their jobs are more physically and mentally demanding than yours.

While you hand over the patient and leave the ER, they have to treat, care and rehabilitate the patient for days, weeks and sometimes years while you are at your fire stations coasting the internet, blogging, watching sports, and sleeping. Yes, I forgot sometimes you guys do shine those big red engines and I must say they look great. But is that worthy of a Big Fat Pension for 40 years after you retire? Is that worth bankrupting the town over? Is that worth all the foreclosures we see in town because residents can no longer afford their tax bills due to the legacy costs of city employees? Is it worth having a budget in the red? Is it worth having a $61.4 million pension deficit that you expect the taxpayers to plug for you as if we can grow money in our tiny back yards?

When will sanity prevail?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ps. In many small towns and villages across the USA the fire fighter job is considered so easy that the fire station is staffed around the clock by volunteers. They don't get paid or receive a Big Fat Pension. They receive training on the job from those more experienced and wiser. It is a fun job with little risk that many young people across the country are willing to do for FREE.....while holding a regular job the rest of the week.

Is anyone willing to be a NURSE for FREE? That is a hard job that requires real training and a lot of hard work. You can't just come to be a nurse at midnight and fall asleep for 8 hours like firefighters do. You have to be on your feet all night long attending to your patients. Nurses in my opinion earn their keep. Fire fighters in my opinion are extremely overpaid for spending 75% or more of their time relaxing, playing basketball, surfing the net, watching TV and getting a good nights sleep.

Let us try to be fair and balanced in your next analysis, Firefighter.

Thank you anonymous....... Lets do the math

$49,353 divided by the average 40 hour work week (52 weeks a year).

$49,353 divided by 2080 = $23.73 per hour. Now lets look back, a firefighter/paramedic, in Naperville, with a bachelors degree earns $19.80 per hour to start. LESS THAN AVERAGE....

Yes, we do get a bed for the night....... BUT, I have not gotten a full nights sleep in months.... MORE LIKE A 2-3 HOUR NAP. Naperville being a sleepy town at night has nothing to do with our call volume. Kids still get high fevers, and croup. Grandma stills falls on her way to the bathroom. People still fall asleep at the wheel on I-88. Heart attacks can happen day or night. Fire alarms still activate in apartments, hotels, and many other business. We still get calls for help when basements start flooding from broken water pipes or heavy rains (several times this year). And we are here day and night to provide you, and the citizens of Naperville, with "Great Service."

Once again, The fire department receives 13000 calls each year for help.... and those calls come both day and night.

May GOD bless you and your opinion. May we agree to disagree. Just sleep well at night remembering that IF you need help, we will be here to help.

"The overall AVERAGE salary offer made to 2009 bachelor’s degree graduates is $49,353"

http://www.employmentwebsites.org/salary-offers-college-class-2009-are-flat

Firefighter,

Pay no attention to Mr.Taxes. He has an agenda that has nothing to do with debating issues logically. Any reasonable person knows why firemen get to sleep while they are on duty, and so does Taxes, in all likelihood. But he'll throw anything and everything at you that he can, no matter how spurious, if he thinks it will advance his campaign to get his taxes lowered; it seems to be all he cares about.

-JQP

Thank you mark f.

I do this job because I love it. I like helping people, the sick, injured. Thank you for understanding that we do so much more than fires. Iam not here to argue with anyone. We are asked for help 13000 times each year, and hopefully we have made a difference in those peoples lives. All I tried to do, with my post, was compare apples to apples and hourly wages to hourly wages. A firefighter/paramedic earns $19.85 an hour to start, and has to work 900 more hours per year to reach the $60,000 figure stated in earlier blogs.

If you do an internet search for "average college grad starting pay", take those starting yearly pay scales and figure out the hourly wage ( divide yearly by average hours worked in those 9 to 5 jobs... 2080 hours ) you will find that firefighter/paramedics earn LESS PER HOUR than most other college grads.

Also, as for the wild top out pay numbers listed in prior blogs.... the current fire chief earns FAR less than 120k to 150K figure blogged earlier, and he is the top paid person on the job.

Firefigher,

I guess you forgot that at least one third of the hours you "work" you actually sleep. You are rarely woken up Sunday thru Thursday when sleepy Naperville is sleeping.

Take out your sleeping hours and you make far more than your civilian counterparts.

And the average civilian getting a college degree is lucky to make 40k and not 60k for starting pay. The top engineers are paid 58k and from there it is much less for all college graduates. Many make less than 25k out of college. Engineers are the highest paid and you are paid more than they are.

And when you factor in you get to retire at age 52 and get a BIG FAT PENSION you are way ahead of your civilian counterparts by the Grand Canyon....even the highest paid Engineers.

So your analysis is bot flawed and biased.

Name one Fortune 500 comapany outside Chrysler and GM that are still giving pensions.... and I am sure you know from all your paid TV time at the firehouse, that both Chrysler annd GM filed bankruptcy partially because of the legacy costs of BIG FAT PENSION and BIG FAT HEALTH benefits.

PS. Most engineers are salaried and work 60-70 hour weeks for that 58k. They never get OT. Fire fighters do get OT and also work on their days off doing such things as sealcoating. They have plenty of energy because they get to sleep on the job. They are refreshed the next day and ready to seal coat your drive way. Engineers after a week at work need lots of rest and sleep over the weekend.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, Mark F.,if you want to give Firemen Big Fat Pensions for transporting your family to the hospital, why not give the Nurses who took care of your family for numerous days Big Fat Pensions also. Why not! Are fire fighters better than Nurses?

Well, 47 million Americans can not afford health care or health insurance, without the nurses getting Big Fat Pensions. I assure you nurses work much harder that fire fighters. They deserve it just as much. But we can not give it to them because it is simply UNAFFORDABLE. We can not let them retire at age 52 and pay them 75% of their wages because we can not afford to. They take numerous risks by exposing themselves to numerous diseases every day they enter the hospital.
And they are not allowed to sleep on the job even if they work the night shift. They would kill to be able to sleep on the job even for ONE HOUR. The fire fighter can sleep 8 hours and some nights without interruption and get paid for it. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I love fire fighters like everyone else. But that is besides the point. The point is we can not afford to give them BIG FAT PENSIONS.

This is new world order.

Dear Firefighter in this town-

While I sincerely appreciate what you do for this community, including transporting my entire family to the hospital following a bad crash, be prepared to be picked apart by the crows on this site who think there are too many of you and feel that you have "nothing to do, since we have so few fires". They want to close stations, not man trucks, etc. etc. Oh yeah, and they want your pension too.

You can try to argue with reason, but I wish you good luck with that. You can explain all the other duties beyond fires and they will complain that they see you at the Jewel. Maybe they will surprise me and not insult your profession. Thanks again.

I forgot one more thing..... There has been several comments on this blog about cutting the starting pay of a Firefighter/paramedic to $40,000 per year. Lets use the numbers that were worked in my last blog...

A firefighter/paramedic works 2920 hours per year. If you pay him $40,000 per year... $40,000 divided 2920 hours per year = $13.70 per hour.

For a pay rate of $13.70 per hour I can work at Lowes, home depot or Menards with MUCH less stress.....

On this blog, someone keeps yelling about "starting pay of a firefighter/paramedic (in Naperville a firefighter must also be a paramedic) in Naperville."

Lets brake down the numbers and examine the pay scales. Lets use the "normal" 9 to 5 worker from any walk of life.....Lets say an engineer.

When you work a 9 to 5 job, you work 40 hours per week, 52 weeks a years.... 40X52= 2080 hours worked per year (straight time, no OT)

Now, lets use that $60,000 per year income (from prior blogs).
$60,000 divided by 2080 hours= $28.85 per hour as an engineer.

When you are a firefighter/paramedic working 24 hours on-duty and 48 hours off-duty, you work..... 365 days in the year divided by 3 X 24hours in a day= 2920 hours per year (at straight time, no OT).

Now, a firefighter/paramedic starting salary of $58,000 ( by the way current top out at this rank is 78,000 using rounded numbers). $58,000 divided by 2920 hours = $19.85 per hour.

After 10 years of service to the great people of Naperville, a firefighter/paramedic still will not earn the same HOURLY RATE as the 40 hour per week employee earns at his starting pay. $78,000 divide by 2920 = $26.71 per hour

When someone complains about something, look at the big picture, not just one side. An hourly starting pay of $19.85 is a good starting pay for someone that has completed 4 to 6 years of college (4 years to earn a bachelors degree and another 2 years to receive a paramedic license ).

And, yes there are a few people on staff that live in $400,000 homes. They also have spouses that work full time and make more money per hour than they do.... or they work a side job, on their days off, so they can provide for their families.

Signed... A Firefighter in this town.

This affordable housing drive that has taken both Naperville and DuPage County by storm has GOT TO STOP. There is a multitude and abundance of affordable housing IN DUPAGE COUNTY! There are rentals and single family homes that are under $250 in almost every town in the County, bar Oak Brook, Hinsdale, and Burr Ridge.

I agree with an earlier post, that the more we build affordable housing the more that they will want more and more cheap housing. Cheap housing is less taxes, thus the more we have to make up for those with lesser incomes.

Naperville and DuPage County have run out of land and if we continue to build new "affordable housing" that otherwise the markets would allow for million dollar homes, we will dumb down the tax base and punish those who can afford to live in Naperville and DuPage. So stop whinning about how expensive Naperville is! It is not if you are content with living in a three bedroom for $250 K in a less than desirable but perfectly nice neighborhood!

Just because I work in Oak Brook, doesn't mean that Oak Brook should build housing for to live there, when otherwise I cannot afford the average $1.5 million home there!

It is simple free market principles that Naperville and DuPage are ignoring!

Starting pay of a police officer is about 60k.

Ending pay may easily be 120k -150k depending on raises and promotions.

So of course a PO can afford these mini-Mansions worth 400k+ on his own salary.

If his wife has a good job such as a school teacher, he can usually afford a McMansion.

When they retire if the police officer collects his Big Fat Pension and his wife the school teacher collects her Big Fat Pension together they can afford a very Big Fat McMansion.

Life could not be much sweeter for our public employees.

Two police officers live within a few blocks of me in Westwind in 400,000+ homes. So what is the need for low cost housing? None. I don't want to see low cost housing in Naperville. A person can always buy a small condo in Naperville if they want to be a homeowner. Or they can rent.

Hey, Why not solve this issue and the Omnia one at the same time:

Tear down all the foreclosures in Tall Grass and put up both the Omnia Perfroming Arts Center and 600 or 700 affordable condos?

This way, we have change, there is no NIMBY issue as the TallGrass people are always so open to developments in other neighborhoods, and we have an arts center in an area that is big enough for it!

www.dgreport.com had a good write up on this
http://tinyurl.com/nxnj6r
It's not about workforce housing or section 8 housing; it's about county politicians greasing the skids to make some serious money playing developers with taxpayer money, and eliminating any rules that they might have to follow.

IT'S YOUR MONEY; MAKE SURE YOUR KID OR PARENTS GET ONE OF THE FREE HOUSES

IMHO when the political class wants to "perform" before an election (next year) that usually means spending money.

Once this is rammed through, as a survivor of similar programs where I grew up; I strongly suggest that everyone that lives in Naperville begin acquiring the paperwork and rules for participating in the subsidized housing program.

The FEDs, State and Local governments will try to make the rules and paperwork daunting, so that only their target group gets these houses with the help of specially trained councilors that fill in the paper work for the target voters.

If you are an attorney in Naperville, start reading the laws before they are passed and send your comments in writing to the County Council and other bodies writing the laws and authorizing the funding. Make sure the law is applied equally.

Make sure that your kids who are just graduating from college (with a negative net worth), who will have little to no income and are poor, are allowed to apply for the subsidized loans and heavily discounted price and property tax brakes that will be part of the package. Why live in your parent's house when the government will effectively give you one.

The exact same program where I lived, virtually gave a new townhouse or duplex to every child of every County Official and lots of other government officials, plus some of the target group who were recruited in and had all the complex paper work done for them.

Since the Government and developers will roll over the homeowners (who pay most of the taxes), why shouldn't your children and elderly parents benefit from the program and get a free house?

You are paying for it.

If there are any Naperville Attorneys reading this, please get involved and ensure that the rules are not so discriminatory that our impoverished kids can't apply for the houses without going to the Supreme Court first.

The rules will be written by politicians, developers and social workers and only sent to the Counties lawyers when a attorney challenges the rules and laws before they are voted on.

Most attorneys employed by a government body will tell the politicians when a law is illegal and will be overturned in the courts, which makes the pols hesitate and sometimes follow the established laws and case laws.

A few years down the road, your kid or parents can sell the house and make a good profit at market price and buy their next house.

Since when is it a universal truth that people want to live where they work, regardless of all other factors (cost, schools, safety, etc.)? Most suburbanites don't live where they work. Some could easily afford to live where they work, but choose to incur lost time and expense not to. Some people work from home, and therefore, could live anywhere, right? Why wouldn't they just live in the least expensive area?

Naperville is a desireable place to live (schools, safety, etc.). That translates into higher property values. People who live in desireable places are entitled to because they pay the mortgages and taxes at such a level. That is the sole qualifier. Last I noticed, most races, religions, etc. are represented in Naperville. At Neuqua, class presidents are black, homecoming queens are Muslim, and valedictorians are asian. And Naperville is racist? These families are the exact people who want to preserve the property values they have earned.

No one is forced to become a police officer, fire fighter, teacher, news editor, etc. Just as cost is not the only factor that determines where someone lives, salary is not the only factor that determines one's profession (or we'd all be CEO's). Public servants choose to be public servants, and can choose not to be whenever they want. We all wish we made more money. We are worth exactly what we agree to be paid. If you really need a backyard in Naperville to plant your fruit trees, go back to school, start a business, and work your butt off like the rest of us.

Social engineering has a long, rich history of being wrong. Welfare, bussing, etc., have proven that entitling something that has not been earned ends up being wasted. Government giveaways only promote non-productive behavior, and do not (can not) ultimately lift anyone to a higher standard of living, unless they have otherwise earned it on their own. There are no exceptions.

For every person who has lived their whole life in Naperville, but can no longer afford it, there are five others who have worked their whole life to be able to live here (and two of them are minorities). That's how it's done.

I only had a chance to read the comments that were printed in the paper today, but I feel the need to respond to them. Perhaps someone already has, and I apologize if this is repetitive.

Everyone seems to take for granted that "affordable housing" is a code word for Section 8 housing, and from there the jump has been made that section housing is a code word for minorities moving into Naperville (this may not be the opinion of all poster, but someone posted a comment about the "BS" of racial among other kinds of equality). I think that this sort of comment exposes the blatant racism that can at times be perceived as the dominant thought in Naperville. As someone who has live here for their entire life, nothing makes me sadder of my hometown, and I hope that this is only a vocal minority. However based upon the prevalence of these sorts of comments, either this is the prevalent thought in Naperville, or the majority is silent.

Regardless, I think that this sort of rhetoric is something that needs to be dealt with, but it is distracting from the issue of creating affordable housing in Naperville. There were a good deal of numbers thrown about in earlier posts, but I believe that the major issue is that most houses are torn down upon sale and replaced by much more expensive houses. My family had lived in Naperville for about 30 years, but I do not believe that my family could afford to move to Naperville today. Some adjustments to zoning would be able to adjust for this, and it would certainly not amount to the Section 8 housing that everyone is shaken up about. We already have a historic district where there are limits on remodeling homes. If we were to create a public servant zoning area where there are restrictions on tear downs and there were some incentive for public servants to move in, I think that all interests could be satisfied. I hope that I did not step on too many toes of people who were outraged over this "threat" of Section 8 housing.

Of Course, quarter million dollar homes anywhere can be Section 8. I was involved in the rebuilding of the Cabrini Green area of Chicago, where they wrecked the high rise subsidized housing and put in, at the time, quarter million town homes. One out of every eight went to Section 8 people as part of getting the deal done. You might want to check into how Section 8 reimburses owners before you pontificate on something you know nothing about.

Denny: Quarter-million dollar homes are considered "Section 8" in Naperville? Really?

And you wonder why I said the things I did earlier. Wow.

Mark, I have worked with special needs people, and have a daughter that falls into that category.

That does not make the affordable housing laws any less retarded.

By denny on June 8, 2009 1:49 PM
Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes is absolutely right! We do overpay cops, teachers and firefighters. It's not a slur, it's a fact. They don't need more perks!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am glad someone agrees with me.

I did say earlier that cops and fire figthers make as much as engineers but what I meant to say is they actually make more than engineers. And engineers are the highest paid undergraduates in America.

And engineers don't get to retire at age 52 and can not collect pensions at age 52. They have to work their behinds off till age 70 if they want full Social Security Benefits and those benefits are only a fraction of the Big Fat Pensions we give to POs and FFs.

And we are sympathizing with police and trying to get them affordable housing? Why not just double our taxes and put the police in McMansions so they can respond quicker to McMansion trouble. What a brilliant idea?

If you call someone

Weight challenged, intelligence deficient, and developmentally challenged in work effort....

will they be insulted or just confused?

If you are insulting someone, wouldn't it be better to do it in standard English and call them fat, dumb and lazy and be done with it?

BTW

Someone jogged past me on the Riverwalk the other day wearing spandex and a Jimmy Neutron hair cut, does anyone know if the County Board President has taken up running, running for higher office?

Ken,

Your response to me demonstrates just how callous, judgmental and unthinking you are.

You are equating "retarded" individuals as people who "can get nothing done" and who have a "lack of brain power." If you've ever worked with special needs people, you'd know that nothing could be further from the truth.

You can state strong opinions without showing your ignorance. Too bad you never learned that.

Taxes, taxes and more Taxes is absolutely right! We do overpay cops, teachers and firefighters. It's not a slur, it's a fact. They don't need more perks! But then the issue is really not about these groups but rather about section 8 housing. We have this already and it's the same here as everywhere else. High crime, drugs, and gangs. "Of Course" I won't call you a bigot but if you really believe this "affordable housing" is anything else than section 8 you are either uniformed or an idiot.

Mark, you seem to be missing the point. If I describe the Illinois congress, or US congress for that matter, as a bunch of retards who can get nothing done, I am not hurting actual retarded people with my comments no matter what politically correct retards think. I am expressing my opinion of the lack of brain power exhibited by politicians in very strong terms. Would it make it any different if I used the term 'special needs people' instead? In my mind it would, because it would soften what I am saying, and I don't want that softened.

When all you can see is an insensitive word being used instead of the bigger picture, you show how shallow you are. Sad.

To: By Anonymous on June 7, 2009 7:56 PM

I assume by your post you either cannot read, cannot analyze words, or are just overly-emotional on this subject.

First, my 10:12 post was made to point out to those who disbelieve that it probablt IS some sort of gov't sub housing.

Second, if you really believe that 100% of people who live in gov sub housing are bangers, than you are a small minded (by definition --- try to think it through). If you check any history (current and otherwise) you will find my comment on this was correct. As for the town you refer to, I am absolutely positive that there are some fine epole that live there, and I am also sure that there are some complete scum that "poison the entire barrel".

Third, I have the same fears of you (that the gov will screw it up), that is why I am posting. If you somehow took my post as support for this project, you are WRONG. I am fully against it, but based not on sociology but on the economics of downward pressure on asset values, the rights of voters to be fairly represented (and openly) by their elected officials, and the equal protection of all voters & citizens (even those who have money).

My comments on racism were not references ----- they were a direct response to earlier comments.

Ken,

What you don't understand is that your use of that word drowns out any coherent or salient points you are trying to make. You lose any credibility or authority by intentionally acting so offensively and crudely.

In short: Your word choice demonstrates who you are and what you truly feel. Sad.

Yes, anonymouse 10:46, I have and will continue to use words deemed politically incorrect to describe a group of people in my everyday speech. I think it is retarded of people to make a big deal out of word choice instead of listening to what is being said.

So Ken, you're telling me that in public and not on an annoymous blog, you openly use the word retard to describe a group of people?

Note to Anonymous on June 7,2009 10:12AM. Thanks for your wisdom and inexperience but many of us do not trust the Du Page Housing Authority to screen anybody. I cannot tell you how many times I am aware of arrests being made at apartments in one particular Du Page town I am familiar with wherein the much hearlded Du Page County Housing Authortiy "screened" residents. I mean do you think we are stupid here? Do you think most of us believe that the government is going to run this so called affordable housing program better than they manage the federal Section 8 program? On top of that, you think we are small minded? Our fear is nothing but another screw up of government in our neighborhoods so take YOUR racist inferences and play your race baiting card somewhere else. As someone else noted, we small minded racists voted overwhelmingly in this community for the Obama, lest you forget. We do not want the intrusion of government adversely affecting our property values for which many of us have worked decades to invest in, with no thanks to you.

A note to all -- the Board clearly stated (and this was included in the Herald article, but not the Sun article) that potential buyers of the homes were to be "screened" by the DuPage Housing Authority to make sure they qualified.

By definition, any activity requiring such screening by a government body indicates some form of subsidization is in the works.

This does not necesarily mean straight Section 8.

Nor does Section 8 users indicate, of and by itself, that they would be "gang bangers', etc. Many, many fine families and individuals have grown up in some form or another of subsidized housing, so trying to turn this debate into a racist issue is small minded.

It is an issue of economics, voters rights, and equal protection.

=To taxes taxes....

You seem like you hate just about everybody. I guess in your twisted mind the only people allowed to own a home in naperville are in your line of business. Go back to your cubie and continue counting beans.

Military gets pensions so i guess you think they are overpaid to....

Its only money-don't worry about it.

JQP,

Already happened and is still happening, look around.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This may or may not be a good idea, but I don't think it means the government will be moving gang-bangers into our neighborhoods.

Maybe I missed something, but this proposal doesn't seem to have anything to do with Section 8 or housing subsidies. It is basically just a rezoning of land in unincorporated parts of the county to allow for the construction of higher-density housing. This may or may not be a good idea, but I don't think it means the government will be moving gang-bangers into our neighborhoods.

It's 2009, we don't use the word "retard" anymore. Unbelieveable.

Why not? Political correctness run amok, the same kind of retarded thinking that brings about these kinds of laws.

Everyone has their shorts in a bind over the alleged need for "affordable" housing.

My question is "Why? Why do we need more affordable housing?"

Is there some mandate I am not aware of that says everyone, no matter how young or old or how much they earn, HAS a right to to live in Naperville? How about OakBrook? Hinsdale? Lake Forest?

Here in Naperville we have lots of affordable housing. Some of the best built homes in the western suburbs are affordable an dlocated in Naperville ---- just get off your duffs and check out the wonderful neighborhoods of the Highlands (east & west), and the Maplebrook areas. These are outstanding homes at a great price. All we would have to do is quit allowing them all to be torn down to make way for McMansions.

[Of course, they are not NEW, and according to the DuPage Cty Board now everyone has a right to live in Naperville in a NEW home.]

The rub for developers and politicians is that since the homes I refer to already exist, they cannot jam 2-4 of them on a single lot and cut a lot of corners (and regs & zoning requirements) to do so.

Bottom line: this idea by the County Board is a farce.

>It is code for subsidized housing

>using firemen, cops, and teachers as the targeted buyer is a canard (note to all: a dual-income family in Naperville made up of any combo of these three professions earns an average of $135,000 per year ---- check the demographics yourself. I don't know about the rest of you, but that is a lot of money.)

>those out there posting who have immediately dropped to the lowest common denominator of harging "racism" to those who disagree have, by definition, shown yourselves to be intolerant an possibly racists yourselfs. SOmeone above posted that the real issue is the high crime rights that often accompany lower-priced housng sitting among higher priced homes. If you check the police blotters in Naperville, you will find that this applies. Speaking from the experience of growing up on the "wrong side" of this equation, I can assure you it is true everywhere.

>anyone who does not understand that building homes at these prices and zoning "dodges" will have an immediate downward impact on the surrounding existing homes of higher values (according to the DuPage Board, the goal of "affordable" was in the range of about half the value of the average Naper home) needs to take a quick remedial course in economics.

>finally, those who oppose the gov't forcing itself even more upon us have every right to disagree with it and to lawfully oppose it.

As for me, I am against any forced housing that deteriorates the value of an existng neighborhood and does not provide equal protection for all taxpayers, homeowners, and citizens. For those interested in actual data, I would suggest you read the City's zoning codes. There you will find some very interesting obstacles to anything that does not fit into the current nature of a neighborhood.

By Of Course: You can claim to be anything you want. We have judged your post is written as that of a racist and for that you have been labeled accordingly. Secondly, your post is ignorant. I did not bother to look up the exact numbers however if memory is correct, this bigoted Naperville voted for the first african american president, Obama (excluding me only because he is 1) inexperienced, 2) accordingly unqualified, 3) ill-suited by ideallogy, 4) I do not care for his friends or obvious people he would bring into government with him) by a plurality of something in the neigborhood of 25,000 for vs. 15,000 against. So for YOU to suggest we are a biggoted community because black and browns as you put it would move here is patently IGNORANT. The thought police hereby finds you guilty of posting a racist comment to this blog and of holding ignorant views. Most of the people on the blog do not like preferential government controlled housing programs for they have a very bad record fostering public housing programs. It is as simple as that. No go write a report that defines racisim and how what you intend to do to rid yourself of such thoughts and submit it to the Thought Police Czar for pentinence.

I moved to Naperville because it was affordable and the schools were good. I live where I can afford a home and I like the area and my neighbors. We saved and qualified to buy a home which after a few years we outgrew, and we bought another home as the kids came.

I'm not opposed to anyone living anywhere they want - it's what made America what it is today. What I'm not wild about is the government stepping in and changing the zoning and building requirements for things like setbacks and building styles.

My home had all kinds of building and zoning requirements along with neighborhood covenants - all with a price. Maybe I can somehow obtain a tax credit for doing things that now won't be required if this plan goes into effect? Maybe I'm just a little jealous I don't know, but it doesn't seem fair to change the rules so others can get something waived (building, zoning requirements) that I had to save up to afford.

And please everyone stop with the entitled and priviledged comments. This area is no different than many many other parts of the U.S. I've lived in a bunch of places and regardless of where you are there are people who are rich, those who think they are rich, and many of us who really don't care and are just trying to raise our kids the best way we can.

Chris,

For me, my American Dream is looking like Tom Selleck did in Magnum, driving a Ferrari 308GT and having the twenty something blond knock out from the bank say yes when I ask her to lunch.

Unfortunately, its 20 years, 30 lbs, six inches of height and a few million a year in income too late.

The Government needs to create a program for middle age men that want to be Tom Selleck and are not, we should have our choice of hair colors etc in the girls that will be falling all over us provided by the State.

My mental health will suffer if I don't have this program probably leading to depression every time I visit the bank. The depression may lead to disability eventually destroying my ability to work.

Years of discrimination by society against middle age men beginning to gain weight and lose hair that aren't' worth millions and don't own $200K sports cars have led to this gross inequity that the government needs to remedy.

If the County President and Governor are insensitive to this injustice and discrimination, maybe they are getting more action than I am, I will seek relief in the courts (no pun intended).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But for me the American Dream is to own a home, not a condo.

Moderator Chris,

I wrote my last post before reading yours.

I am all for the Naperville Sun employees having affordable housing and living in our community.

I am against NP, FF, or City Employees obtaining any more breaks. They can already afford to live in our town just like any other employee about the same age.

Their pay is now higher than civilian pay plus they get Big Fat Pensions and great benefits.

I am tired of giving them everything. As I said I am not going to let them even have my broken toaster. Enough is Enough. Those people have it made. They can retire at age 52 and begin living in McMansions with their pensions supplementing their new jobs.

People have to stop feeling sorry for cops, fire fighters and city officials. It simply ridiculous.

If you want to feel sorry for newspaper reporters and editors, I am all for it. Their profession is heading the way of the dinosaur, they may lose their jobs and they have no Big Fat Pensions lined up. I am all for seeing what we can do to help them.....but not with TAXPAYER MONEY.

By mark on June 5, 2009 7:51 AM
Chris,

You're surprised that no one on this board wants to give this idea a try? I'm not surprised in the least. The plan makes a great deal of sense: build moderate-sized, quality homes that are actually affordable, so that people who provide services to our neighbors -- teachers, firefighters, police officers, city workers, you name it -- can actually live in the town where they work. Everyone knows how important that is: People have a greater sense of community and concern when they live in the town where they provide their service.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark,
What are you talking about. Naperville POs and FFs make more money than engineers with a BS. Engineers are the highest paid graduates in the nation and we pay POs and FFs just as much.

Just like engineers sometimes need roomates at age 22 with their starting salaries, what is wrong with POs and FFs needing a roomate upon starting a new job. Or what is wrong with living in a Naperville apartment on that nearly 60k salary with almost full benefits when you are 22. Are they better than our Moderator who is 29 and lives in an apartment or owns a condo? He is not complaining and the Naperville Sun does not even give him any kind of pension let alone a Big Fat Pension. I bet he has to pay for most of his own health insurance from his Skinny Payroll Check.

Now when they get a little older like retired Captain Robert Marshall of the NPD, they can afford to live in a McMansion in any part of town they want.

For those who don't know Mr. Marshall retired with the NPD with a pension of just below 100k. He is employed for slightly above 150k to the best of my knowledge. He is even working on a second pension to supplement his first pension at Naperville Taxpayer Expense.

Now this talk about POs and FFs needing special housing makes me sick to my stomach. They are paid as well as any profession both starting and after 10 or 20 years. Plus they get a BIG FAT PENSION. And get to retire at age 52 instead of 70. Do you want to give them your kitchen sink also Mark? I am not even going to give them my broken toaster.

Why in the h$ll are you worried about them, Mark. They are Big Boys and should be allowed to fend for themselves. They don't need anyones help. They are well taken care of by the Naperville Taxpayers. We need their help!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Final question Mark....are you a FF, PO, CE or ST receiving a Big Fat Pension and now also wanting SUBSIDIZED HOUSING???

OK folks, you want low cost housing in Naperville, start by lowering our outrageous taxes. All politicians want to do is raise taxes. Reduce out taxes and people will begin living in low cost housing.

Of Course –

I’m still struggling to figure out what “tone” you intended which would make “What a bunch of high-handed bigots this town has” come across as sarcasm.

For someone who stated that you’re “very emphatically not a racist”, you certainly like to throw racism accusations around fairly easily, don’t you? It appears that while many have written here about low income or Section 8 housing, you’re the one trying to inject race into this discussion. On the contrary, I think most people opposed to this are against possible increases in crime, decreases in home values, weakened zoning, and an apparent favor done to appease developers.

How would you react to a development like this near your home or your schools? Would you embrace the idea even if you thought your property values would decline? Would you embrace the idea even if you thought crime may rise? Or do you embrace this idea because you live nowhere near where this is proposed?

T.B.

Why is the American dream to own a home? Have we ever thought about that for one moment? For many of us owning a home is a goal but should it be for everyone? I know I have some neighbors who are breaking the bank to try to keep their house and the "dream" going. They would be much happier in a condo for sure, but they were telling me that it wouldn't be possible because they consider a step down.

Chris –

Unfortunately, this is often what happens with well-intentioned government programs:

“Affordable housing units used by many to turn a quick profit” (Sun-Times, May 15th)

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1575370,CST-NWS-maxwell15.article

T.B.

As someone who lives in Aurora, I have to mention that many of the attitudes being demonstrated in posts on this blog are the exact reasons my husband and I chose to build our home in Aurora even though there were 2 or 3 subdivisions in Naperville that we could have chosen. We wanted our kids to grow up with the attitudes that they were lucky, not privileged, and should be giving back to the world. Both will graduate from college with degrees that are about helping others and making the world a better place, as opposed to making a ton of money. They will make a living, not a fortune. Their levels of personal satisfaction will be tremendous. The attitudes that they are demonstrating in their choices is what I feel has been my biggest accomplishment as a Mom.

Mark stated "The plan makes a great deal of sense: build moderate-sized, quality homes that are actually affordable, so that people who provide services to our neighbors -- teachers, firefighters, police officers, city workers, you name it -- can actually live in the town where they work. Everyone knows how important that is: People have a greater sense of community and concern when they live in the town where they provide their service." I think he is right on the money. Everything I have read seems to indicate that as the intention of the whole proposal.

Living in a mixed and diverse community is better for everyone.

Maybe the better idea is to build these "moderate" homes and let whomever can get a mortgatge for them to buy them -- with the one caveat that they live there themselves (not rent them out). There should be no "qualifying" occupations or income levels. That would seem fair to me.

Apparently a few of you didn't get my sarcasm. I apologize. It's hard to convey tone in a blog on the internet.

I am very emphatically not a racist. The racists are those who automatically assume "affordable housing" is some kind of code word for "section 8 ghettos", and that if you can't at the very least afford a quarter-million-dollar home in Naperville, you're some kind of lazy, sleazy lowlife. THAT is racist, as well as bigoted.

I am one of those that has a family and lives in a townhouse. When I was buying I could not afford a single family home. I would have preferred a single family home and still do. But my income is at a level where I cannot qualify for any type of assistance, but is not of a level where I can afford $300,000 for a home. There are now homes (because of the drop in property values) in Naperville 3 bedroom/1 bath for $224,900. While for me that would be a stretch, it is possible. Unfortunately, I'd have to sell my current place and would lose a bundle.

The County/government should keep their noses out of putting limits/restrictions on income and home prices. I think a smart developer could build homes at smaller square footage at a reasonable price -- but let the market bear itself out. No exceptions should be made in housing codes for any houses.

Chris –

There’s nothing wrong with raising a family in a condo or townhome. It would certainly be better than piling three or four families into a single family home which is currently being done in a rental house on my block right now.

I’m familiar with one of the condo complexes I found to be in the $125K range and it’s very clean, safe, and also has a large courtyard with a tennis court, basketball hoop, playground, and pool.

T.B.

Chris,

You're surprised that no one on this board wants to give this idea a try? I'm not surprised in the least. The plan makes a great deal of sense: build moderate-sized, quality homes that are actually affordable, so that people who provide services to our neighbors -- teachers, firefighters, police officers, city workers, you name it -- can actually live in the town where they work. Everyone knows how important that is: People have a greater sense of community and concern when they live in the town where they provide their service.

The big-hearted people on this board who oppose this idea can't be bothered to look at the details. They don't care that they won't have to pay a dime for this project. They simply don't want anyone that they consider unsuitable to live in our fair town. They believe that anyone living in a $250,000 home is not welcome as their neighbor.

As for "mayday," who told people who need more affordable homes to live in Aurora or Bolingbrook: What a snide, smug, thoughtless thing to say. To quote Jon Stewart: This is why they hate us.

Chris,

If the County wants to dispose of property, the transparent way to do it is through an open sale.

In an open sale, the County could expect to get between $200K and $300K per lot for normal fifth acre lots if improved.

Less if they are selling to a general contractor who is going to do all of the improvements like lighting, sewer, water, streets etc. and contribute some of the land to cover the cost of schools, water towers etc...

The plan here is to "donate" my property to a well-connected developer who will build houses that don't meet local zoning, to be sold at a profit by the builder. So, I get screwed out of my land that I paid for with my taxes, I get zero.

I can't wait to see our County Executive posing for photos with the little brown people (like me) as he hands them the keys to the house I paid for.

Why I bothered taking loans and working while attending University, repaying my loans, then working like an animal to pay for my tiny residence is the real question?

I should have stayed home and waited for our County Board President to give me a house, food stamps, financial incentives to have more kids, subsidized electricity and utilities and a free education at a State University.

A more equitable way to handle this would be for the next tax bills to have a box you can check for a special $25K assessment against you home to fund the purchase of land on the open market and build houses that meet code. I'm sure all those that want social justice will sign up for the special assessment.

To By of Course: Keep your racist, ignorant comments off our blog. If you need to be a racist, go to the Daily Hearld blog and leave your stupid comments there. I hope that anymore racist comments from this person or anyone else are ignored. The issue Moderator Chris is we believe parents have the responsiblity to provide bedrooms and yards for their children and not the government. The government is ultimately you and me and I can no longer afford to pay for the children of people like By of Course. Pay for your own damn kids or don't have them if they are not affordable. Also, politicians in seem to have this idea of appointing a citizens committiee to study "problems" and make recommendations. I believe they do this to shirk their responsibility to deal with issues. For example in this case, they can blame the group who made the recommendations for unpopular ideas as this blod is shaping up to opine, people like By of Course not withstanding. This matter is about finding a way to get federal money from HUD to fund a local program that gives local politicians more power to spend money and increase the size and scope into the lives of private citizens.

By Anonymous on June 4, 2009 1:16 PM

It's 2009, we don't use the word "retard" anymore. Unbelieveable.

____________________________________________________

Maybe you don't.

I have a problem when a government agency (County Board) steps in and says that someone will get a better deal than they otherwise would have received if they qualify. In this case the qualification is low income is it not? With government assistance, someone who normally would qualify to buy a 150K home will be allowed to buy a 250K home. Call it whatever you wish, but it is subsidized housing.

Aren't we currently going through a major problem in the real estate market where people overspent and overbought? I guess this is better because the county board will cover the loan? Who do you suppose is on the hook if anyone defaults?

T.B. asked about police: "would there be any NPD response to any possible rise in crime? Wouldn’t the Sherriff have to respond?"

The way it has worked in the past is that if you live in unincorporated areas and dial 911 - the NPD often gets the call because they are closer. The sheriff's office follows up, but the NPD are typically first on the scene - at least that's how it worked when I lived in unincorporated Naperville. (FD was always the NFD and I paid taxes on this.)

Chris,

There are a lot of people that have kids and live in condos, townhouses, duplexes and rental apartments in Naperville. Their families decided to move here and in most cases do what it takes to stay here.

Do the supports of the projects believe that the target group is somehow inferior and needs income redistribution from the families already living in condos and townhouses to pay for their free standing house?

Why does the government need to transfer wealth from everyone else to groups they deem inferior to effectively give them a $300K free standing house for $100K. This screws all of the people that live here already including all of the chumps in condos paying their own way.

TO:

Of Course,

Of course, I am one of the little brown people that you want to help, I don't need or want this program nor do I want it to be offered to my kids because of their DNA which you think somehow makes them inferior and in need of your help. Keep it!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But of course Naperville residents wouldn't like "affordable housing" to open up here, because some of the new residents who would then be able to afford to live in this town might be - OMG - black or brown."

It's 2009, we don't use the word "retard" anymore. Unbelieveable.

Of Course…

You’re making a pretty sweeping generalization about people you don’t know. If you want these projects (no pun intended) to go through that’s fine, but don’t label anyone questioning this proposal as racist.

What was the “general search” you did which showed “that many homes and apartments here are not affordable for the average Joe”? I went to the Tribune’s on-line real estate section and found eight pages of condos listed for sale in Naperville for under $150K (there were about 19 or 20 listings per page). There were 24 listings for $100K or less. That sounds pretty affordable to me.

This County proposal sounds more like a gift to some developers than a social program for affordable housing.

T.B.

if you want affordable housing, go live in aurora or bolingbrook.

BUSINESS AS USUAL

Financially, morally and intellectually bankrupt GOVERNMENT at all levels binge spending as long as the "right people" get the money.

THE PAWNS

The section 8 tenants that will be moved into the properties are pawns for:

*the social engineers
*the politicians they will owe their votes to if they want to keep the money coming
*and the all of the contractors and "special consultants" who will make money off of the project.

RECIPE FOR SCREWING THE VOTERS

Step 1, disable the voters by taking their local government out of the loop.

Step 2, ram the agenda and changes through a friendly government board and politicians who can't be unelected by the people they are screwing. The farther away from the voters who are getting screwed, the better.

Step 3, inferior-politicians in DC deliver the money to their local "friends" who in turn hire the politician's friends, relatives and contributors, who in turn finance the politicians. Corruption circle complete.

WHO BENEFITS?

Judy Biggert of Hinsdale is a big fan of section 8 housing.

Apparently, the local Republican political machine and its' cronies in the consulting, banking, legal, and construction industries are on board with the housing projects so they can get some of the "Federal money" that our grandchildren will have to repay.

CORE OF THE PROBLEM

Low-skill and medium-skill starter jobs in factories have been shipped out of the country for savings as small as 1-2% at retail on a lot of items. At the same time, social-engineering-government at all levels created a cycle of dependence that only politicians can fill.

So the victims of free-trade and social-engineering government who alternately views them as:

*victims-of-racism, who can't make it
*or retards who are wards of the state in need of government program to run (ruin) their lives

are trapped in the game of being moved from location to location; and program to program while the politicians make sure the right people profit.

So in a way, the section 8 (welfare) population are victims, victims of bankrupt government.

Gilgis and her rationale are El Toro Popo!

Her white whale has for years been section eight-type housing. She is using the County Board as a bully pulpit to achive it.

We should all be deeply offended by the wayward, immoral way in which Gilgis and Shillerstrom tried to pass this vile piece of legislation.

They went behind our backs and tried to apply the worst forms of sleaze politics to jam it down our throats ad infinitum with literally no restrictions, warnings, etc.

There is also the question of "Why were builders on the freaking committee?"

Does anyone else see a conflict of interest in this?

Thanks for the opportunity to vent!

Sure, Naperville needs affordable housing. It's clear when one does a general search that many homes and apartments here are not affordable for the average Joe. But of course Naperville residents wouldn't like "affordable housing" to open up here, because some of the new residents who would then be able to afford to live in this town might be - OMG - black or brown. Oh no! They will drive our property values down and deal drugs! Let's keep them out of Naperville so we can stay lily-white and monoracial, please.

What a bunch of high-handed bigots this town has.

The city has been making builders jump through hoops when it comes to code and now they want to lower the standards. This is a lot of crap.

Also, we need to get our taxes lowered so that our housing becomes affordable and not keep having the schools, politicians, and council members spending OUR money like drunken idiots. And if I have offended anyone, tough !

What about programs to help pay our taxes and get them reduced. Face it, if you are not at the bottom or the top of the food chain you are screwed. Anywhere in the middle is survival at best.

Just another wonderful day in paradise.

PS: Liberty and justice has said is all. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I think most would agree that this is about low income housing and has nothing to do with the police or firefighters so there’s no benefit in discussing their salaries, etc.

Since this is the County’s doing in unincorporated areas, would there be any NPD response to any possible rise in crime? Wouldn’t the Sherriff have to respond? What can the city do to stop this? Can we annex the area and bring it under the city’s control and end-run the County?

I’m against any re-zoning of neighborhoods. It’s inherently unfair to those that have been abiding by the current zoning for years and this plan would inevitably lead to lower property values for those already in the targeted areas.

T.B.

This talk about subsidized housing for fire fighters and police officers is nonsense.

Naperville Police Officers and Fire Fighters make about 60k a year out of college while vesting in Big Fat Pensions and nice health and life insurance benefits.

The highest paid college graduates in the country are engineers and they average only 58k. The second highest paid are accountants who only average 48k. Yes, Naperville POs and FFs make higher than the highest.

Are they telling us some of the highest paid graduates in the nation will be living in Section 8 housing? Unbelievable!

This is nonsense. It is a smokescreen as Richard so eloquently stated.

The powers that be really must think people are dumb. If they say the homes are for firefighters and police officers how could anybody possibly object?

Of course, they are talking about Section 8/low income homes, and the firefighter nonsense is just a smokescreen

Why not ask Chief David Dial what he thinks about increasing the workload for his officers at a time his budget is under scrutiny?

In the mid to late 90's Naperville added "Section 8" (?) Affordable housing on Fairway drive in the Country Lakes subdivision. The apartments immediately became, and still are, frequented by the police and the scene of many disturbances. I doubt that many cops and firemen live there.

My first job out of college was in Oak Brook. I wanted to live close to work, but the cost of a one bdrm condo was over 200K and I could maybe afford 80K. I bought in Westmont and drove 4 miles to work each day. Just because you work in a city doesn't mean they somehow owe you an opportunity to live there - especially if it means changing the rules to do so.

First and foremost, lets not play with words. This affordable housing BS is code for low income housing. Count me as being opposed to ANY attempts to change legal requirements that apply to a few at the expense of others. Changing zoning requirements of already established areas, giving breaks to people based upon income levels, employment, racial status is not creating affordable or more accurately low income housing. And stop it with the phony argument about teachers, police and fire as being targeted for the program. What load that line is. The fact is, you cannot control who is going to be a participant. By the way, want to make housing more affordable? Try reducing the cost of government, in particular the school system tax. Build houses for a couple of hundred thousand dollars and watch the people lose them because they cannot pay the real estate taxes. Or do they get a special program to help them with our high taxes? It is simply government controlling demographics with its weight to achieve its desired outcomes. I think it odd they refer to the area north of Bauer Rd. Are you talking about zoning changes for the Knights Subdivision? I believe you are and consider the way the area was described in the article as deceptive. I wonder how those people would like the character of the neighborhood changed by different zoning laws regulating new construction in their neighborhood? Things they had to do and adhere to when building or improving their property no longer apply because the government desires something that is more important than fairness or equity. There is affordable housing in Naperville. Ever see the numbers of condos, townhouses and other dwellings for sale in East and West Highlands and other subdivisions on the center southside of town? Stop the government from creating problems where perhaps problems do not necessarily exist.