Fed Up With The Noise on July 8, 2009 9:18 PM

One more question - teams are typically allowed a limited number of players per team. What happens to the boy who can not be on the team because the slot he might have filled on the roster was taken by a girl who didn't want to play on an all girl/s team.

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The same thing that happens to a boy who doesn't make the cut because his slot is filled by a boy. He plays in another league or another team or in a lesser competitive league that does not have limits as to number of players.

What are considered a non or low contact sport? Badminton?

The whole idea of "equal opportunity" is that girls and boys should have the shame chance to participate and play in sports. If there is no girls team for a sport, then it makes reasonable sense to allow for coed teams. however, if there are both boys and girls teams, then the equal opportunity/rights issue is moot. The other approach, and this has happened, is that organizations running those teams, have canceled/eliminated a boys team because they did not have the resources to have a girl's team as well. Again - equality was achieved - because they both were denied the chance to play.

One more question - teams are typically allowed a limited number of players per team. What happens to the boy who can not be on the team because the slot he might have filled on the roster was taken by a girl who didn't want to play on an all girl/s team.

Last time I checked there were more serious injuries in basketball than football. From your comments, I am confident you never played competitive basketball at any level, it is contact sport.

By blemum on July 4, 2009 6:56 PM

IMO if the sport is a non-contact or low contact sport, there is no reason for segregation at any level. For instance, in basketball there is a sorting out of different physical capabilities that occurs by position.

WAA Basketball has CO-ED teams up to a certain age group. please stop spreading false truths about WAA who has pushed for so many things people are asking for here. Contact the board and come to a meeting and stop asking for CO-ED leagues when they already exist.

This is not a fight for equal rights. A fight for equal rights would be fighting to play on a boys team when no girls team exist. There are baseball, basketball, and soccer teams for girls. There are options for girls. You're being overly dramatic.

Just because there are girls who are competitive with boys, and better than some of the boys, doesn't mean they should play in boys leagues. I'm a former coach who had 8, 9, and 10 year old girls on boys teams. I would draw the line at 8 years old.

I wish your daughter the best of luck. I also walk in your shoes. It is crazy that we are having to fight for equal rights for our daughters in the year 2009. We should be past this already!
Keep fighting. We are teaching our daughters great lessons by not giving up or backing down. There are girls that can be competitive with boys on the field, just like there are women who are competitive with men in the work force. It's time to get past the stereotypes and let these young women prove what they can do.

Again, to clarify, I did in fact approach each organization regarding their repsective policies on this issue. In recent days WAA did say that there had been a miscommunication regarding their policy for their baseball program...however they did agree that they have a policy of no girls on boys teams for their basketball program. The Naperville Park District Director of the Premier soccer league program told me (as stated in the article) when I discussed the issue at length with him was that there their policy is not to allow girls play on the boys teams. Also, the YMCA Director of basketball said unequically when I spoke with him that after 2ng grade, the girls may no longer play on boys teams, period.

The issue regarding baseball with WAA may have been a result of miscommunication however the rest were not.

IMO if the sport is a non-contact or low contact sport, there is no reason for segregation at any level. For instance, in basketball there is a sorting out of different physical capabilities that occurs by position. The smaller guards are placed in a position for speed and perimeter shooting while the larger forwards and centers bang around under the basket. Many of the WNBA players could easily hold their own against the NBA perimeter players. Why segregate them??? It seems like antiquated sexism to me.

To By Anonymous on July 2, 2009 10:22 AM:

Stop with the obviously bigoted homophobic rhetoric. It has no place on this blog. Additionally, do your homework. No such legislation has ever been submitted in Congress. If you believe it has, post the Bill No. & the parts you think are egregious......

Did Emma's parents approach Wheatland Athletic Association or the YMCA or any other organization in an attempt to start up a co-ed league? I would think that's the most productive way to resolve this issue rather than bullying an organization which has an existing boys league and girls league to place your girl on a boys team "just because she wants to play with them."

Anon,

A girl at my high school played pick up basketball with us in the gym all the time. She always asked me to cover her and go full speed. She became a Div 1 all American guard.

The one place we went easier with her was under the basket, she would have gotten killed figuratively speaking.

Played with the boys was AA on the girls teams.

By Anonymous Parent and 203 Teacher on July 1, 2009 10:36 AM

On the other hand, female athletes, from what they've told me, want to play on boys' teams for the competition and the greater perceived potential to increase skills.

Naperville needs to lead by example on this important issue.

All differences between the sexes and all types of sexual orientations need to be wiped away.

The City Council should pass ordinances to make this happen. Our newest councilwoman and her organization the League of Women Voters can provide all of the latest cookie cutter legislation from Berkley and Europe.

If gay men can share the same showers and hot bunk with sailors they find attractive, their is no reason why hetero sexual men can't share the same facilities with women in Naperville. Discrimination based on sex or orientation must stop!

At the very least the City Council should provide leadership and close half of the restrooms in City Hall and make the other half unisex. Diversity should be everyone's goal.

City Council should invite US Rep Biggert to speak in support of this legislation when it is introduced. In fact, Ms Biggert has introduced legislation that will make it a criminal offense to oppose legislation like this. Anyone who rises to speak against the legislation can be arrested.

This is simply not true. My daughter has played boys baseball since she was 5. She has in fact played for Wheatland Athletic Association for most of those years. She played for Fox Valley Park District when she was 5, then went to Wheatland from the ages of 6-14 now she plays for Naperville Baseball Association. She has played competitive baseball since she was 9, meaning that she has had to try out to be on a team since the age of 9. Everyone has been so welcoming to her and they have all loved to watch her play over the years. We even have umps that have told us they love to see her on the field. I don't think this article should have been published without further research into the topic. My husband is the director of Ponies baseball for Wheatland and would never turn away a girl from trying out for baseball.

This seems like an uncalled-for amount of hostility toward an article about a little girl wanting to play soccer with her friends.

Why do so many parents in this town feel that rules are for everyone else but them? She should play on the girls team - end of story. Once you start making exceptions, it becomes a slippery slope and where do you draw the line? She's learning early from her parents that it's all about "me and what I want". It's completely ridiculous that her parents contacted the press and made a federal case about this non-issue.

Emma has been allowed to play in the programs that she has registered for. WAA has never told the family that Emma could not play with her male teammates. She played co-ed basketball and also played in the Rookie division of baseball (not softball). Emma continues to play in the boys soccer league with WAA. WAA encourages children to play with their friends.

I wish this paper used more common sense when they promote "news" stories. This is a NON-ISSUE! It is NOT news or anything else except an innate media compulsion to create contention between the rest of us. Grow up, wise up or shut up!

Just because the majority of Naperville parents are elitists who will sue at the drop of a hat doesnt mean all are. These parents arent going to sue if she gets hurt playing. If you read farther into the story and even look at the picture, shes not a very fragilee girl. She has three much older siblings who dont cut her much slack. Her getting injured is the least of the worries.

to who cares... You also said you were in high school when you switched over. She is only going into the third grade. Dont you think you gain some maturity and abilities to cope with change in what, seven years?

to sick of some... shes not trying to play with them because she thinks she could be better.. or because she wants to be awesome in the first place. She just wants to play with her friends. why is that such a problem?

Sure, it might not be front page worthy, but all this wouldnt be an issue in the first place if people could just start thinking a little.

As a final point, volleyball is huge around here, no? Well, up until highschool, the travel boys teams play in GIRLS leagues with no problems.

In my 42 years of playing, watching, and coaching multiple sports, I've never once heard a boy say he would like to play on a girls' team. Whether they've wondered about the possibility is a different issue, one on which I can't speculate. On the other hand, female athletes, from what they've told me, want to play on boys' teams for the competition and the greater perceived potential to increase skills. If she is capable and willing to give it a go, why are we not allowing her?

As an aside, I would like to see Naperville move away from the gender stereotypes in sports - girls watching the boys play or cheerleading for them as early as pee-wee football. In a sense, unknowingly, or knowingly, we're perpetuating roles that just aren't healthy and limit girls and boys.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see in the article anywhere where anyone claims that Emma needs to play with the boys to allow her to reach her athletic potential. Rather, the main reason for her wanting to play with the boys is that they are her friends. Does this mean that when either of my girls doesn't get to play on a soccer, basketball, or softball team with her "girl" friends, I should make it an issue? Maybe I'm just missing the point?

Just to clarify, it was not coaches or parents that told us that Emma could not play on boys teams, it came straight from the Directors of both the basketball and baseball programs at WAA. I questioned both about the organizations' policy. Also, this may not be a significant issue for most of you but for girls and women this is an issue that has to be delt with throughout there lives. Telling an 8yr old to "get over it" is easier, but not in her best interest in the long run. Women have to compete with men in society so why not let them develope some of those tools early on (if they so choose).

Also, do not make assumptions that I will "sue as soon as my daughter gets hurt". I am adamantly opposed to frivolous lawsuits and accept that when playing sports, accidents do happen. It is part of the risk taken in engaging in the activity.

A lawsuit could be filed because she was told she could not play on a boys' team, when other girls are playing on boy teams, not only because she may get hurt playing and file a suit.

From what I've seen, the main difference between eight year-old boys and girls from an athletic standpoint is that the boys tend to be more aggressive. The strength, speed and size advantages that males enjoy don't really start to kick in until adolescence. It sounds like this is a pretty tough little girl, so I think she should be allowed to play with the boys for as long as she's physically able to compete with them.

What happens if a bunch of boys want to play on a girls team and it ends up that there are more boys than girls on the team.

Then what? Are they going to say to the boys that they can't play with their "girl" friends, but the girls can play with their "boy" friends.

This is stupid. If there are girl teams and boy teams then she has to be put on a girl team. End of conversation (as my Dad would say.).

All right, little Emma has had her 15 minutes of fame. Just have the parents sign a legal agreement accepting full responsibility if she is injured in any way... holding no one responsible if things get rough. Might as well let young boys get in touch with their feminine side if they prefer to hang out with girls in their neighborhood and are the last chosen in gym class teams. Why not?

The sexism and ageism has gotten completely out of control, society has gone Neanderthal with their outdated retro values.

Although I can play as well as any of them, I can guarantee you that if signed up for 15 credits at my local junior college they wouldn't even let me try out of for the traveling woman's soccer team.

As a middle age man, I can tell you this kind of sexism is all too common.

I agree with Who cares and with Napervillian. Why is this even a story, let alone a front page story? I live in Naperville, and I'm tired of the attitude of some who think that they should get their way all the time. I agree that if she continues to play with the boys and gets hurt, her family would probably be the first to sue everyone. It would be one thing if no girls' teams were offered, but that's clearly not the case. What if boys decided they wanted to play on the girls' teams because they think they could be better than the girls? Is this same girl going to try out for the boys teams in middle school and high school? She's not going to be able to get her way all her life, so the sooner she learns it, the better.

Let her play with the boys. She'll get hurt by some stronger, faster and more competitive boy, then the family will complain and/or sue people that everyone let their daughter play with the boys' team. Please write about people or matters that truly count.

As soon as she gets hurt, her parents will sue. Be a girl and play with girls.

And to "hockey girl" get over it, it was 20 year ago. Or go seek some help.

I played soccer with my "boy" friends as long as I could, then when I got to the girls leagues and High School I was a superstar. I can thank them (the boys) for the training, but I had no quibs about playing with girls. I was better than all of them. That was over 20 years ago.

I'm over it!

When I was younger (over 20 years ago) I was told I was not allowed to play on a boys' hockey team because I "might get hurt" and the boys "wouldn't understand that they had to go easy on me".

To this day, that was the most insulting, biased, sexist thing that has ever been said to me. Let Emma play where she wants, separating the genders in sports only leads to sexism later in life.

If you read farther into the story, an administrator with Wheatland states that it must have been a coach or parent who said she could not play, not the Wheatland association itself. In fact the admin points out some situations where girls are playing on boys teams. She states "But I can't guarantee what a volunteer coach or parent might say ... Honestly, if we hear wind of a coach telling a girl she can't play, we'll tell the coach, 'No, you can't do that.'" So this action does not seem to be a Wheatland policy. And the story may have brought enough attention to solve the issue for now.

This is one of the pitfalls of having an organization that relies on volunteers in so many ways. Information is not always communicated well. There are probably volunteers that assume since there are girls teams in the organization, that the girls should not be on the boys teams. And of course, if the situation were reversed, a boy wanting to be on a girls team, people might take a whole different attitude with it.

I feel middle school is a good age for the separation to begin. That's when things start changing physically and emotionally for both boys and girls anyway. But as long as a girl can try out and stand on her own skill wise against the boys, then she should be allowed to play with them. However, girls do have some unique issues when it comes to sports. There are a higher number of ACL injuries in girls for one. A coach who understands the differences and can train the athletes appropriately in order to avoid injury can definitely be a benefit.

This is garbage. These are not even heavy contact sports. When my son was in Naperville National Little League Majors, there was a girl playing short stop for one team who was every bit as talented as the boys. If she can compeat, so be it. The normal reasons for separation are girls being unable to weather the contact and that if you let girls play on boys teams, then boys can play on girls team. Eight is too early to worry about the former (although again these are not high contact sports). The latter is argumentum ad absurdum. Girls will not dominate boy teams the way boys' could dominate girls' teams

Why should it matter anyway - if Emma is at the same skill level as her male buddies, shouldn't she be allowed to play sports with and against them?

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That is an absolutely crazy statement.

That is like saying if a boy is at the same skill level as his female buddies, shouldn't he be allowed to play sports with and and against them?

You can not have you cake and eat it, Sun Editors.

"Probably because I'm a girl, and they have girls' leagues," Emma said.

Emma is right and knows the reason....so what is the point of this pointless blog. To waste people's time???