Anonymous,

Thanks for the advice.

Do you know if a kitten gets older, can she climb a tree and come down by herself? It seems like they should be able to like squirrels but could I be wrong?

My only experiences are my neighbors full grown cat which was rescused after 12 hours by the NFD from the top of a tree and my kitten who was recused by ME after 2 hours with a 40 ft. ladder.

I like animals to experience life to the fullest and be happy. I felt the squirrels I domesticatd for about 2.5 months were very unhappy in that large parrot cage. I wanted to keep them since I loved the circus I got each morning and the loving relationship we had. But I could really sense their uncontrollable instinctive desire to climb those trees.

I was afraid to release the baby squirrels initially but after I released them at about 12 weeks old, it was amazing what happened. They visited me many times a day for peanuts and sun flower seeds. They sat on my lap and shoulders. They would come back to the parrot cage occassionally at night that I left open for them during the acclimation process. But after a week they found new residences. I did purge the area of 13 raccoons that I caught with a large trap from Home Depot before I released the squirrels. I was afraid the raccoons would kill the squirrels since they were partially domesticated and friendly to people...not sure how they would have reacted to other wild animals. After a week in the wild they were fearing domesticated dogs and heading for the trees. So I think eventually they could handle those raccoons but not initially. The racoons knew my squirrels very well....so I had to relocate them.

Raccoons are very dangerous animals. Once I put the finger of a glove in the trap to see what they would do. They ripped the finger in a split second. So if ever trapping a racooon use a thick glove and never put your finger in the cage even with a glove on....it will be gone.

There was a very scary moment one time during my squirrel experience. A loud plane flew by and suddenly 4 squirrels jumped on me from the trees landing on my head and shoulders. I did not see them coming so was initially frightened to death. As they got use to the loud noise of planes they stopped jumping on me. I think they thought I was their Mom or Dad and came for safety.

Eventually, after 2 years I stopped seeing them....or they stopped coming. I did some research and found squirrels only live to be 2 years old. I guess if you are going to raise squirrels you will have heart break each 2 years.

I suspect squirrels have sharper and stronger claws than cats. Also greater jumping ability as they can leap from tree to tree effortlessly.

Anyway, I hope someone has experiences with kittens/cats and trees. I want to know if they can come down these trees or just climb up. Do kittens when they climb so easily not realize they have to come down? Are their claws strong enough for climbing but to weak for the vertical downward decent? Does anyone know?

Thanks to all those who are contributing.

Sadly, this may all be for nothing due to the allergy situation. My son is doing a lot better just by closing his bedroom door and not letting the kitten in. I am hoping he has a very minor allergy that we can survive. But only time can tell. Or maybe the kitten has not had enough time to contaminate the whole home with its dander.

You can easily trim your kittens claws with human fingernail clippers. Just like a dog, do not trim below the quick, just take the "hook" off and the cat will no longer climb so easily. The claws are transparent, you can easily see the quick through the nail. This also eliminates the need for declawing, if maintained. A declawed cat should never ever be allowed outdoors, as they have no defense. If you can't keep your cat from escaping the house, do not have it declawed. If you catch the kitten or cat on a table or counter, physically knock it off while yelling "NO!". They are tough and agile, you will not hurt it, they will land fine, won't like being knocked off and therefore will stop after it happens a few times. A cat can be trained to stay off of tables and counters. It's not rocket science, it's common sense. Keep your kitchen clean, no cat food on the counters or anything else to tempt them and you will be fine. Of course a cat will eat dog food and vice versa, figure out where and how to feed your animals in different areas (on the floor!) if it bothers you.

If there are cat allergies in the house, do not keep a cat. It's a terrible health issue for those with allergies and just not worth creating a house full of dander.

By Conscientious Observer on August 20, 2009 12:03 AM
CIJ,
I honestly don't know of a way to 'train' a cat. In my opinion, they aren't like dogs - they only listen when they want to. Our dog seemed to be the one who could get through to the cat when he was up to no good.
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Kittens seem to be independent. I don't think they are trainable like a dog, but I think you can train them to come eat when you call them for example. Kittens are very playful.

My dog who use to love to retrieve tennis balls in the house has not done that since we got the kitten. She stopped being playful while the kitten is very playful. I am hoping she will end her standoffishness and make friends with the kitty. They don't fight at least. Once in a while the dog growls gently.

One time the dog got too close for comfort and the kitty instinctively tried to claw his eyes out. Maybe, this is why she won't play with her. But she only clawed at her once on the second day and has not clawed at her again.

I would love to see them play with each and take a little stress off of me.

I want to make an attempt to train my kitty to play outside on an enclosed 900 square foot outdoor interlocking patio. And she can go up the one birch tree on the patio because I can rescue her from a window if I have to.

I am going to experiment and squirt her or yell at her every time she jumps on the 3-5ft wall. She seems to fly on the 3ft portion effortlessly but still can not climb the 5 ft portion. I am hoping this will keep her contained on the patio. This way she gets to be outside and I don't have to worry about her if she stays in the enclosed area.

I had a little success with the squirrels but eventually they wanted to be on the big trees. But they were really wild animals where this kitten is obviously very domesticated.

Hopefully solutions will come gradually. Really, thanks for all your help especially on the allergy issue.

CIJ,
I honestly don't know of a way to 'train' a cat. In my opinion, they aren't like dogs - they only listen when they want to. Our dog seemed to be the one who could get through to the cat when he was up to no good. He usually got to him before we did. Unfortunately for you, we're very attached to our dog so we don't lend him out for kitten training.

As far as nails go, our cat's front feet had been declawed when we got him so we never had the problem you're having. Does your kitty have a scratching post? Maybe a call to your vet's office would help. We found a site that was a wealth of information. They even have a user forum where you can get advice from other cat owners. It's: www.thecatsite.com

CO,

Thanks so much for you advice. That is why I like blogging here. Look it how much we can learn from our exchanges.

I have been on the internet all day researching but your post seemed to make more sense than anything I read.

We are still in the beginning stages. My son seems to feel better once he stopped sleeping with the kitten and closed his door at night. If a half an hour of exposure does not affect him, we may keep her. But if the minimum exposure is going to make him sneeze, cough, get red eyes and feel sickly, we would have no choice but to find her a nice home.

I am trying to move quickly since we are all very attached especially ME.

I thought of trimming her nails a little as a way to prevent her from climbing trees. Do you know if you can trim a kitten's nails instead of declawing her at the 6 month point. She is very tame and I believe she would let me trim her nails while dozing off or tired.

I also was reading on the internet that the water squirting bottle on a kitten or cat is not a good tactic. I have been using it so far. The kitten does not like it and is not getting it.

The so called pros on the internet suggest raising your voice to the kitten and they eventually get the message. I am going to try that as I have had no success with WV Mom's advice even though I have no doubt it was sincere and may works with some kittens and cats.

I think just like kids are different, pets are different and the same tactics can not be employed to all.

CIJ,
Good luck with allergies, kids, and cats. I can tell you what we experienced to hopefully save you some time and money.

We got a rescue when I was a Cub Scout leader and took our den to the Humane Society. I should have known that there was no way on earth someone in my family could leave the facility without wanting to take home a new pet. We ended up with a full grown cat that took to my son immediately. We took him because we were afraid no one else would. He was a real sweetheart and loved curling up on everyone's laps. If you touched him he would purr and nuzzle. Everyone in the family loved him.

It took a couple weeks, but two of my sons started sniffling, rubbing their noses, coughing, and itching their eyes. The doctor ran allergy tests and both came up with an array of allergies, including cat dander. The vet told us cat dander (actually all pet dander) clings to all surfaces: carpet, furniture, bedding, drapery... and takes approximately seven years to become fully removed from the home unless all surfaces are treated using a hot water extraction method. The allergist also said that many people react more strongly to cat dander than dog dander. We got prescriptions for both boys: one worked and one didn't. One of our sons reacted severly since the cat slept with him in his bedroom. Once our son started to resemble Hitch we had to give the cat to my parents. It was costly to treat our home and I vacuum constantly. After several months, everyone seems to be back to normal. Now we can no longer spend a full hour at my parents' home without one of the kids reacting. Hopefully your family won't have the same experience. Good luck.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 15, 2009 3:37 PM

The problem I see with most bloggers on this site, is that they appear to be lazy and not willing to get off their behinds and see what is going on, out in the real world that we blog about.

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By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 19, 2009 1:47 AM

I do more than my fair share. I am not the Napergate Man who had 3500 Napervillians assisting and decent size staff assisting him in his investigative journalism and weekly Napergate Ads. I am a one person operation. We all should know that by now.

By Keyboard Rambo on August 18, 2009 3:01 PM
How do you seriously not know the basics of taking care of a pet?

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KR,
I know more about pets than most people. I even raised creatures like squirrels where I was pretty much on my own and advice was scarce to nill.

No one knows everything about every kind of pet. And my degree is not in veterinary medicine.

Every pet is very different. Do you know how to raise alligators? Some folks own them in their homes and consider them pets? How about pythons? Do you know if you give them 2-4 live chickens or live large rabbits that they will not need food for 3 -6 months? Did you know they can wallup a chicken right down their throat without even chewing it?

There is so much to know about pets. At least I humanely treat them and I am trying to save a kitten that was dumped by humans after they domesticated her. And I may succeed in giving her a good home. Give me some credit! Cut me some slack!

By Anonymous on August 19, 2009 12:14 AM
By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 18, 2009 9:33 PM

Yes, you are right. We need information from the NPD that we are not given.
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So do a FOIA. You can do it on line. You don't have to give them your name. Just an email and a moniker. (I've done it lots of times) You can go on gmail or hotmail or yahoo and get a throw away email account. You're the CIJ. So be the CIJ. You don't have to ask them for names. They can exact them. All you need is the stats or the sanitized reports.

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I am not sure you can do what you are saying. Giving the police a false name for any reason in my opinion is misrepresentation and possibly perjury and certainly at least fraud. I am not about to do that unless Chief David Dial says it is permissible in his bi-weekly column.

I think I am doing what a Citizen Journalist is suppose to be doing. Tipping and/or informing the Naperville Sun. I am not a newspaper journalist and do not claim to be one.

I have my hands full with a spouse, 4 kids, a dog a cat, a daytime stock market trading job, and I work on my real estate investments at night when the kids are sleeping and Moderator Chris shuts down at about 2am.

I do more than my fair share. I am not the Napergate Man who had 3500 Napervillians assisting and decent size staff assisting him in his investigative journalism and weekly Napergate Ads. I am a one person operation. We all should know that by now.

I tipped Napervillians about Big Fat Pensions. I was behind a Tax Protest. I can take people to the water but I can not force them to drink it. ( I know this phrases is suppose to say horses...lol...)

At some point the residents have to wake up. I will not be the first to go down to foreclosure or bankruptcy, because I do not have a house mortgage or home equity loan. Others who will go down before me have to step into the front line and fight the fire with greater firepower.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 18, 2009 9:33 PM

Yes, you are right. We need information from the NPD that we are not given.
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So do a FOIA. You can do it on line. You don't have to give them your name. Just an email and a moniker. (I've done it lots of times) You can go on gmail or hotmail or yahoo and get a throw away email account. You're the CIJ. So be the CIJ. You don't have to ask them for names. They can exact them. All you need is the stats or the sanitized reports.

By Anonymous on August 18, 2009 9:05 PM
Will County is a big area. What portion are we talking about. The depressed area of Joliet? You need more information before you can say that the article backs your statement that heroin use is up in the Naperville area. It takes over an hour to get from Naperville to Peotone.

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Yes, you are right. We need information from the NPD that we are not given. We know one kid from the Will County portion of Naperville over dozed on heroin for sure in March with 7 other kids from Will Country in a 2 week periond. We know another one from Naperville(Dupage) died of heroin on July 24. Naperville is not exempt from these heroin deaths.

These are mostly teenagers. Whether they are from Naperville or Peotone, it is very sad. Certainly some are from Naperville but I am not sure if any are from Petone.

Will County is a big area. What portion are we talking about. The depressed area of Joliet? You need more information before you can say that the article backs your statement that heroin use is up in the Naperville area. It takes over an hour to get from Naperville to Peotone.

How do you seriously not know the basics of taking care of a pet?

For more information on how to take care of a cat, see this link: http://tinyurl.com/petgtz

Heroin deaths surge in Will County
Comments

August 18, 2009

By BRIAN STANLEY Staff Writer
JOLIET — Health officials, narcotics agents and the coroner agree: We are in the midst of a heroin epidemic.

"We have 20 confirmed deaths so far this year," Will County Coroner Patrick O'Neil said. Last year there were 16 fatal heroin overdoses in all and 15 the year before that.

"Our undercover agents probably still buy more cocaine, but heroin is really rising," Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad Director Dan Tapper said.

Tapper said it appears the heroin comes from Mexico into Chicago where "entry-level dealers" bring it out to the collar counties.

"Going up to Chicago, you'll stop the car at the corner and they line up like it's a swap meet," "V.", an undercover MANS agent, said.

V. can't believe plastic companies don't face any penalties for manufacturing 1-by-1-inch bags "which can only be used for a hit."

Powdered heroin strongly resembles a very fine sugar or an artificial sweetener. "Hits" are around $10 each, while a "jab" pack of a dozen hits sells for between $120 and $140.

Tapper said agents have found users across every demographic and area and most inject the drug instead of snorting it.

Dr. Joseph Troiani, director of the Will County Health Department's Behavioral Health Program, said heroin has been "marketed" toward young people and is an easy switch for older drug users.

Some signs that could indicate someone is using heroin include weight loss, inability to focus, lethargy and appearing intoxicated.

Troiani said the average price of heroin has dropped by nearly two-thirds, while purity has gone from 15 percent to well more than 50 percent.

O'Neil said 19 men and one woman ranging in age from 17 to 62 have died from heroin this year, including eight people over a two-week span in March.

"It's all over the place. This problem is ripping families apart," he said.

"In the last four months drug interdiction teams have seized around $3 million in drug cash from trucks and traffic stops in the area," he said.

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Former WV Mom,

Well if you thought I was exaggerating about drug use and heroin, I hope you saw this article in the Naperville Sun today that does not include the 5 heroin deaths I uncovered in the Dupage portion of Naperville and near its borders.

I knew the situtation was terrible.

It looks like Will County Officials are finally coming out of the closets. My respects to them.

Time for Naperville and Dupage County to come out of the closets and tell us how many deaths they have besides the 5 I (CIJ) uncovered.

I think I have been right about increased heroin drug use in Naperville. Once again I was not exaggerating. Once again it seem like I am a step ahead of the police and media in my Citizen Journalistic duties for this Naperville Sun Blog Site.

Thanks to Sun Officials for publishing this article and showing some of these bloggers that they are in denial while I have been credible with my findings that I have been reporting.

I did not provide the link because it is in the Sun. This is not the full article....only a summary.

I do believe that you were wrong when you stated drug use was going down in our region. Undoubtedly, it is going up...easpecially hard drugs like heroin. Your report even showed marijuana is up over 1990 by 21.4%.

I believe the 2009 report will be worse than 2007 when issued.

By Conscientious Observer on August 18, 2009 11:41 AM
CIJ,
Maybe you would get better animal advice by calling your vet's office (I assume you have one since you already have a dog) or our local Humane Society. Personally, I think they would be a better resource than a blog site.

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Your are probably right. This kitten just happened so quickly and fell in our laps without any planning. It was abandoned by someone and we were trying to save it and give it a home and a good life.

I did talk to a pet shop owner who says they take kittens to the vet whole sale for 19 dollars instead of the 47 dollars it cost to go to our regular vet. But only once a month. The owner says she takes customers kittens with her kittens to the vet at the same time to keep costs down. We never walk out of our vet's office with less than a 200 bill every time we take the dog in of which 48 dollars is for grooming, 47 for the office visit and the rest for shots. Last time we had to buy her worm medicine and flea medicine for an extra 90 bucks. A week later she got a bladder infection while my graduate student daughter baby sat for her while we were in Myrtle Beach and it was 260 dollar for the vet and a blood test. When we got her back she still had the infection and the Naperville gave her a stronger dosage of antibiotics and that bill was another 94 bucks.

One of our consideration for keeping the kitten is to keep the expenses lower than the dog and have her be affordable. I don't know how some people can affored 3 dogs and 5 cats as one neighbor does.

I noticed that they sell worm and flea medicine for pets right over the counter at Jewel Osco. I am considering doing that instead of paying vets an arm and a leg for each visit. Of course no vet is going to recommend that, but maybe some bloggers use the OTC vet medicines from Jewel without all these costly vet office visits.

Anyway, one of my sons appears to be showing serious allergies to the kitten. My daughter in graduate school called to remind us she is also allergic to cats and this means she can't come home anymore and asked if we have chosen the kitten over her. She was not too happy.

In less than a week we fell in love with this kitten and now we are not sure we can keep her due to the double allergy situation.

The kitten sleeps by my head and sometimes on the same pillow and the dog by my feet. So I am their favorite and the most attached to both of them. I really do enjoy them. One of my posts that was sent twice was actually sent by the kitten.

We are experimenting with vacuuming the house daily to see if that helps. My son broke out pretty badly but the cat shared a pillow with him one evening for a good 8 hours which could have been a bit too much. We are wondering if less contact with the kitten could make the situation tolerable for him..or if it is a hopeless situation. Anyone familiar with cat allergies?

Sometimes bloggers with similar experiences who have been through the same situation can give you advice....you never know. It does not hurt to try. Keep in mind I am using a dead thread that has been archived so I hope I am not stepping on anyone's toes. I hope no one thinks I am hijacking this otherwise DEAD THREAD. This thread is also Open Topic Thread and I am tired of talking about Big Fat Pensions and so are many other bloggers and the Moderator.

My spouse made an appointment with the allergist to see if my son is indeed allergic or if something else hit him conincidentally. I did give him Visine for his right eye which was badly inflamed and it may have helped temporarily. The kitten slept by the right side of his face that night. He now closes his bedroom door so she sleeps by my face instead. I am definetly not allergic thankfully.

But I am not scratch or bite resistant. She drew blood 4 times already from me....unintentionally I believe. Mahybe she is trying to sharpen her claws on me. I wish she would sharpen them on the birch tree without climbing too high.

I guess nothing is easy in this world. I heard of cat allergies but I never would have imagined 2 in one family out of 6 would be allergic to a 1-2 pound kitten.

Hopefully someone has some advice and we could take it from there.

This morning she snuck out again while the Cable Repairman was going in and out to get us High Definition, and got 6ft up on the birch tree before I caught her. I would have thought after climbing a tree yesterday and getting stuck for 2 hours, she would have learned. I am beginning to think a kitten does not learn much at 7 weeks. What can you teach a human baby at 7 months? Nothing I guess!

At this point the water bottle is not working and I suspect it is because she is too young or maybe just rebellious like Naperville teenageres...lol.. But I guess, if you don't succeed try, try again.

Where is Former WV Mom when you need some kitten advice?

CIJ,
Maybe you would get better animal advice by calling your vet's office (I assume you have one since you already have a dog) or our local Humane Society. Personally, I think they would be a better resource than a blog site.

CIJ,
It sounds like your son needs a healthy dose of reality. If he has a bike, maybe you could be too busy with things other than him so that he knows the world DOES NOT revolve around him and that getting a ride in a car is a privilege he should appreciate - and certainly not a something you are required to provide just because he is your son. Maybe he will learn to respect your time and efforts.

At the same time you were playing with your kitten in a tree, The NFD and NPD were dealing with a MAJOR wreck on I-88. All lanes of I-88 were closed at one point. The wreck was written up in todays paper and on-line last night. You were correct, THEY HAD MUCH BETTER THINGS TO DO...

Again, ANIMAL CONTROL....IT'S THERE JOB.

By firefighter friend on August 17, 2009 6:36 PM
Have you ever seen the skeleton of a cat in a tree.... EVER ??? They can climb up and they can climb down....

Also, that is what Animal control is for ( city or county ).

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Keep in mind this is a 7 week kitten that climbed her first tree. She did not move for over 2 hours and was meowing for help.

No, I have never seen a skeleton of a kitty ever in a tree. I suspect a raccoon or large owl would have devoured her in the middle of the night, bones included. She only weighs one or two pounds at the most and as soft as the squeezably soft Charmin. Anyone ever seen the teeth of a raccoon. I trapped 13 of them and know how vicious they are. When I relocated them away from my home to a forest preserve, I always had a baseball bat with me. They are scary creatures. They once attempted to attack some squirrels I was raising and I had to throw white plastic chairs to get them to back off. They were in a standing position and looked quite sizable and menacing. They did not like the fact that my squirrels were living in a huge parrot cage above them on my deck. Apparently they were living under my deck and the squirrels most have been to noisy for them when they tried to sleep in the daytime.

I am not sure kittens can always climb down. The NFD did get a cat down that could not come down after being in a tree for 12 hours about 12 years ago. And she was a CAT. I witnessed the rescue operation. If they felt she could come down, why did they bother to go up and rescue her from the top of a tree?

I think it may have been easier for the kitten to climb up than climb down with her tiny claws that she just sharpened yesterday on a birch tree that she did not climb up or could not climb up after attempting. I guess kittens are like teenagers and think they are invincible.

I am hoping the kitty learned from this experience and does not try to climb again until she is a little older and more experienced. However, I doubt it as she keeps climbing on tables despite being squirted with water each time.

Little kittens are not as good on trees as little squirrels....that is for sure.

I did not ever consider calling the NFD by the way. I think some neighbor usually has a long ladder. Plus the NFD should not be risking life and limb for a kitten. I guess I was willing to risk life and limb today as the kitten was not mine but for my daughter. She put me in charge while she was out-of-state and I did not want to let her down and tell her I lost her kitten or a raccoon ate it while it was my responsibility to care and protect her.

Thankfully, it all had a good ending. The pet shop stated a kitten can not be declawed until 6 months old. Does anyone know if this is true or not? I would like to declaw her immediately if there is no medical or veterinary reason for not to do it at this very young age.

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Does anyone know if you can give a kitty a bath? Does anyone know if you can give milk to a kitty?

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As far as dogs, they can not eat candy especially chocolate, gum, raisins, grapes, onions, moldy or spoiled food or salt. I have it posted on the refrigerator as a daily reminder.

Id be quite surprised if the FD would come. I was a fireman for years and when ever someone called about a pet in a tree, we did not go.

By Anonymous on August 17, 2009 6:14 PM
cij

Call the fire department! I could make a joke here about pensions, but I'm serious.

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Anyway, after a while the kitten began meowing instead of wiggling her tail. She was in the same spot 40ft up for 2 full hours.

One of my neighbors had a 40ft. ladder and with his help and another neighbors we got her down. She seemed very appreciative. Let us hope she does not try it again. She snuck from under an opening in the wire fence and climbed the neighbor's huge tree. I sealed that opening. Let us see if that helps. She seems to like the outdoors so I would like to take her out when she gets older but I don't like her sneaking out when I take the dog out.

(I had watched her try to climb a birch tree in an enclosed patio and she failed at least 10 times to even get 2 feet up. So she caught me off guard as my daughter caught me off guard with that basement party 4 years ago. I don't think I am a bad pet owner...no need to attack me, please.)

Personally, I don't think the police dept. likes to help with finding lost dogs and I don't think the fire dept. really wants to be bothered with a kitten in a tree.

I know a few months ago a neighbor did call the NPD about her lost dog and they told her politely that was not their duty or responsibility. The neighborhood searched for the dog and eventually found him or her or it.

I do recall a neighbor about 12 years ago calling the Fire Dept. to help rescue his cat which did the same thing as my kitten. They actually came and got him/her/it down using one of their big ladders. I watched the rescue but I could tell the fire fighters were not very happy and in a bad mood.

Dogs and cats are not tax paying citizens of Naperville. I don't think we have a right to call the NPD and NFD for help when it pertains to an animal. I may be wrong but that is what the NPD told my neighbor when she lost her dog and the impression I got from the NFD 12 years ago during the cat rescue.

I guess someone could be getting a heart attack at the same moment a fire fighter is 50ft up a tree trying to rescue a cat or kitten. I know the rescue 12 years ago took a long time because the cat was afraid of the fire fighters. But after many tries the fire fighter who had a thick pair of gloves on(since obviously the cat was not declawed) grabbed her aggressively and never let go despite her screams. He really did a great job while quite a few spectators were watching him and received some nice applause. The neighborhood did try to rescue the cat all day long before the Fire Dept. was finally called.

In this current case my neighbors recommended I go up the ladder as they felt the baby kitty would not be afraid of me. She let me grab her without any resistance and I had no gloves( She has bit me twice and scratched me twice drawing blood 4 times already but they are harmless bites and scratches since she is still a baby kitten) I had to to hold her tight going down the ladder with one hand and she did not like that one bit.( I had flashbacks of how the fire fighter squeezed the cat pretty tightly on the way down and I just did the same with the kitten....if she got out of my hand her 9 lives would have expired together in one shot.) But I think when I got her in the house I could see she was relieved and happy to be rescued.

She has been a real challenge. Just cleaned her litter box and she just kicked it all out of the box all over again. She is constantly eating the dog's food instead of her own food and the dog has just about had it with this kitty. The dog has been angry since the day we got the kitten....but controlling herself. Of course, when the dog got close to her once, she clawed her harmlessly.

When I put a can of cat food to entice the kitten down from the tree, of course the dog gobbled the contents immediately. Could not keep the dog in the house since his barks to come out were deafening and scaring the kitten. A lose, lose situation.

Despite squirting the kitten at least 20 times, she still is on top of every table in the house. Maybe they just don't get it at 7 weeks and she needs to be 10 weeks. I have to do a little more research on raising kittens instead of pensions....no denying that!

Maybe, Former WV Mom may come on with some more advice. But I will admit I do like a challenge and this kitten is a challenge. I once raised 4 baby squirrels successfully before I let them go into the wild where they wanted to be. This kitten has been much more challenging than all 4 of them combined.

I suspect that is why she was abandoned by another family who could not deal with her anymore. I am not giving up on her yet and plan on keeping her. Despite her massive disobedience(so are our teenagers) I plan on keeping her and raising her to be a good cat. She is very loving but simply out of control at this point.

So was my dog when it was a puppy. I had to leash her in the home the first 6 months.

CIJ

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P.S. Of course it was my day to pick the boys up from soccer practice and they were screaming at me for being 20 minutes late since they had planned to go to a movie without telling me. I tried to call another parent to pick up the boys but no one was answering their phones today. Anyway, the boys calmed down and finally apologized when I got them in the vehicle and told them the story. This is life in Naperville. My boy told me today we are suppose to be sacrificing our lives for them. That we are suppose to drop everything to accomodate them. And his friends all agreed. If I ever told my father that 40 or 50 years ago, his belt would have come out. Our kids are spoiled no matter how you decipher it. So are our pets...lol...

Have you ever seen the skeleton of a cat in a tree.... EVER ??? They can climb up and they can climb down....

Also, that is what Animal control is for ( city or county ).

cij

Call the fire department! I could make a joke here about pensions, but I'm serious.

Anyone know how you can get a 7 week kitten down from the top of a 50ft tree. She got away when I let the dog out.

She seems happy up there wiggling her tail. I am assuming a cat is happy like a dog when she wiggles her tail. Does anyone know for sure?

On the other hand, I am fearful since it is the first time she ever climbed a tree, she may not know how to get down or be afraid of coming down.

She had made prior attempts to climb trees but only got about 2 feet and fell back down. This time she made it all the way to the top...or almost top. I did catch her sharpening her claws on a birch tree yesterday so she must have done the job.

I put some canned cat food by the tree, but that has not enticed her yet. She is to high up for most ladders plus it is a safety issue for anyone to get up that high up. It is going on about one hour.

Any tips before it gets dark?

CIJ

By John Q. Public on August 17, 2009 10:27 AM

You're always good for a laugh, I'll give you that. BTW, why all of the sudden harsh words for people who post using the "Anonymous" handle? You used the same handle yourself earlier in this thread.

-JQP

========================================================================================================================================

BTW, JQP that post was meant for a good laugh. So you caught on very quickly.

I explained very well why I am against the use of the handle Anonymous. In summary because it is used to snipe at the credibility of others while preserving their own.

I did use the handle Anonymous earlier in this thread on an exceptional basis and for good reasons and intentions.

1. To pervent a hijacking of a thread.

The minute it is known that it is me, the bloggers literally hijack the thread and make it a BASHING of ME. This has happened in almost every instance without exception. Ironically, while they hijack the thread so they can insult me, they have the audacity to allege I hijacked the thread. I am sure you can see through all that JQP as I consider you the wise man of this thread. (When I say wise man, I am giving you a complement...as you know I don't kid around and speak my mind.)

Notice, I am staying away from all the threads on the Main Page. Do I find the topics interesting? Yes, but am I willing to go there now and be accused of HIJACKING all over again. Not yet, I need a little breathing time.

2. To increase my chances of being anonymous

As you know when I started on this blog site, I used real first names. Later I changed to handles which use phrases. I had a pattern with the choice of my monikers. I chose Anonymous in hopes that I can remain unidentified as I was discussing a personal matter with another blogger. Since I have not discussed personal matters before and bloggers thought I was only capable of discussing Big Fat Pensions, I thought I would not be spotted. I was wrong and I was spotted and thus we have one of the longest threads on this Blog Site and it unfortunatley was a waste of time involving personal attacks obviously not started by me.( I do agree with the Moderator that these are a total waste of time but I am a little disappointed in the Moderator that he does not point out who starts them. I do acknowledge I do counter attack when these attacks persist and I know they are not going away. At this point, since the Moderator refuses to call them out in a specific sense, these certain bloggers feel they have the Moderator wrapped around their little fingers.)

You have acknowled that a previous exchange was not started by me, JQP. It would be nice if you could acknowledge this latest exchange which was of a "personal attack nature" between the bloggers and I was not started by me.

3. To have a little peace and tranquility

To a great extent my exchange with Former WV Mom was peaceful. At times it was upsetting to her. I was honestly in disbelief when she first stated 60 people came to her basement and not one caused any trouble....especially because 50 people came to my basement while I was home and caused a lot of trouble. I am no wimp and threw 50 teenagers out in 10 seconds flat. Maybe they were testing me since it was the first time. But their test failed and it was the last time. Who knows maybe if my daughter was to invite 50 dancers from the Xtreme National Force Team the results would be different. But I am taking no chances.( I should note that when Former WV Mom stated I was upsetting her because I was in utter disbelief, I did apologize to her twice and not once. She apologized to me once. Her and I were being very civil despite being engaged in a very heated debate. That is how it is suppose to be in my humble opinion. The situation escalated when the bashers intruded on our discussion, not to contribute, but to draw blood. She was a totally different person BEFORE and AFTER blog peer pressure....as obvious as a blue diamond.)

Teenagers don't like adults checking and intruding on them. I understand that. But since I can not trust them fully, NO MORE PARTIES in my HOME. PERIOD! I am not taking any chances and losing my home, being arrested or having a teenager killed driving home. Let us face it some teenagers did unfortunately drive home after I had my 10 second fire drill. Someone could have been hurt if they had been drinking prior to coming to my home and just coming for more.

4.Harsh words for those who use the handle Anonymous

The harsh words were justified. They were attacking with immunity. No one knows one from the other. The harsh words were also directed to the use of handle Anonymous as well as those who hide behind it, who attack others personally.

5. Talking about future and not the past

I have asked that the handle Anonymous be banned going forward. I used it going backwards. I am not asking for an exemption to use Anonymous. I am asking that we ALL cease and desist from using Anonymous and that the Moderator enforce it. I have no issues with someone choosing Another Anonymous or Mr. Anonymous or Anonymous 22.
But not Anonymous because way to many people are using it and you can not hold anyone accountable while they hold you accountable.

6. I am simply asking for a level playing field

I think this could decrease personal attacks. Someone could have a handle in which he is a decent credible person and then engages in personal attacks as Anonymous to preserve the good reputation of his or her existing hanlde. Thus he maintains his or her decency and respect on this blog site in the day time while sniping at everyone at night time. I don't think that is fair.

Those are my thoughts JQP. What are your thoughts? Would you support the banning of the handle Anonymous? Would you support the banning of personal attacks? If not, please tell me how to use color on this blog site, since I have seen you use it once or twice. Thanks!

MHB wrote:

I think JQP has proven to have thick skin and can take a good right blow to the head or left upper cut to the chin and still remain standing. He never goes below the belt to fight. So I fight him above the belt and respect him even though he has appointed himself my personal prosecutor and is trying to rip me apart.....obviously he is failing and I am ripping him apart. He can dice and slice all he wants but I am shredding his theories and innuendos to smithereens.

You're always good for a laugh, I'll give you that. BTW, why all of the sudden harsh words for people who post using the "Anonymous" handle? You used the same handle yourself earlier in this thread.

-JQP

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 16, 2009 11:27 PM

Potluck is about debate and discussion.

*******************************

PS Formal debates are normally scored.

http://myweb.lmu.edu/tshanahan/nt-debatescoring.html

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 16, 2009 11:27 PM
By Anonymous on August 16, 2009 7:29 PM

Potluck is about debate and discussion. Not giving scores. If you disagree with my viewpoints explain why. Apparently, it is hard for Kindergarten Children to articulate more than a sentence. It is much easier to follow the leader and gang up with the majority.
**********************

Anonymous 1 CIJ 0

Anyway, I just did a refresh twice and got 538.

I put a "T" in the box and hit preview a second later and got 541.

I guess you have a much better chance getting the latest using the preview button than just refreshing.

By Anonymous on August 16, 2009 7:02 PM
CIJ,
Any compliments you give to anyone on here do not come off as sincere. Not when in the very next post you spew such vitriol towards that person.

========================================================================================================================================

When I give compliments be assured they are sincere. I give very few compliments to very few bloggers.

I truly admire those who can debate me and give me a run for my money on an intellectual basis. So far only Former WV Mom and John Q. Public have shown that ability.....and of course the Moderator when he engages me.

My compliments are for those who can disagree with me and debate me without engaging in personal attacks.

John and WV Mom attack my beliefs, my facts, my opinion. I also attack their beliefs, their facts and their opinions. WV Mom is a little new to this kind of heated exchange and with time she will develop thick skin and be a great contributor. I think JQP has proven to have thick skin and can take a good right blow to the head or left upper cut to the chin and still remain standing. He never goes below the belt to fight. So I fight him above the belt and respect him even though he has appointed himself my personal prosecutor and is trying to rip me apart.....obviously he is failing and I am ripping him apart. He can dice and slice all he wants but I am shredding his theories and innuendos to smithereens.

Did you see me call him a monkey or donkey? Did you see him call me a monkey or donkey? We debate at an intellectual level. You guys should try it sometime. You never know. The Moderator may just give you a passing grade and put you in First Grade. You guys are way overdue!

========================================================================================================================================

Bloggers,
If refreshing is not giving you the latest posts, try putting the word TEST in your post and then hit PREVIEW. You should get the latest posts on the first or second try. If you feel like posting, delete TEST, write and submit. I am having a very hard time obtaining the latest posts without both refreshing and previewing sometimes many times. I know the experts are working on these technical problems but it appears they hit some roadblocks and are stuck somehwere in the mud.

Chris,

Thanks for the correction on the year. Of course I meant March of 1865. It is always difficult to say what would have happened had events taken another course. Lincoln, though, did discuss going all out to win before his successor took office, and probably would have had a free hand until then, because I don't believe Congress would have been in session at all during the period between the election and the inauguration.

As for the Zimmermann telegram, relations between the U.S. and Germany had been spiraling steadily downward at the time the telegram's content became public knowledge. It did play an important role in the U.S. decision to go to war, but you can't really separate it from the other events that contributed to the bad blood between the two countries.

-JQP

By Anonymous on August 16, 2009 7:29 PM
After reading the statement by Former WV Mom and the retort by CIJ, the score is:

Former WV Mom 1 CIJ 0

========================================================================================================================================

Potluck is about debate and discussion. Not giving scores. If you disagree with my viewpoints explain why. Apparently, it is hard for Kindergarten Children to articulate more than a sentence. It is much easier to follow the leader and gang up with the majority.

You need to review the Nicarico Case, the Duke Lacrosse Case and the Napergate Case to begin to even comprehend what is going on here regarding a LYNCH MODE mentality.

Also the use of the moniker Anonymous to me indicates you are a WIMP in HIDING. Give a handle so we can hold your accountable for your remarks. Be a man or a woman instead of a WIMP. Wimps are a dime a dozen!

========================================================================================================================================

I would like you Moderator to consider eliminating the use of Anonymous as a moniker. With so many Anonymous' no one can hold them accountable for anything. No one knows who they are. They can attack the credibility of others while no on can hold them accountable for their own credibility. It seems a little ridiculous that the handle Anonymous is allowed on your blog site. Just my opinion. Not trying to tell you how to run your blog site.

Chris Magee wrote:

Even in the Civil War, in summer of 1864 most people thought Lincoln would never be re-elected because the war seemed to be dragging on and most people had started questioning if it was worth it. The Dems were running a candidate who wanted to make a peace agreement no matter the terms. If not for a few big wins before the election, we could have easily lost the war because of public opinion.

Sorry for the delayed response to this, but I was away on vacation the week this discussion took place.

Anyway, I just wanted to correct something in this post. The Democratic Party platform in 1864 called for an immediate end to hostilities in the Civil War, and a negotiated settlement. Since the South would not agree to any "settlement" that did not involve recognition of the independence of the Confederate States of America, this would have been tantamount to the North accepting defeat in the war. However, the Democratic party nominee was General George B. McClellan, who favored continuing the war, and repudiated his own party's platform.

It's an open question what course of action McClellan would have taken had he been elected. It's quite possible that the conditions of his election would have made it impossible for him to continue the war. On the other hand, he would not have taken office, until March of 1864, which would have given Lincoln several more months to bring the war to a successful conclusion (Lincoln had openly discussed such a plan in the days when his re-election seemed doubtful). As it turned out, the South's cause was all but lost by March, and the war more or less ended a month later.

-JQP

P.s. I'm also surprised that the Zimmermann telegram never came up in the discussion about the U.S. entry into WWI.

After reading the statement by Former WV Mom and the retort by CIJ, the score is:

Former WV Mom 1 CIJ 0

CIJ,
Any compliments you give to anyone on here do not come off as sincere. Not when in the very next post you spew such vitriol towards that person. You seem to be a very troubled person who picks on people who actually tried to give you chance on occasion. You are merely like the "mean girls" who inhabit high schools.

By Former WV Mom on August 16, 2009 11:55 AM

Like I said it took quite a few techniques of searching for me to finally find the study you quoted. I did not need to do that at all. I could have stopped after searching the organization's website. At which point, everyone on here would still be wondering if you fabricated the article you posted. Now they actually know you didn't.

So it is time for you to back off of me. I actually helped you out and let people know it was real and I've have been given nothing but grief by you about it. So it is time for you to back off.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. If you are going to debate on this blog site, I suggest you develop thicker skin. My words of advice to you, is if you have thin skin, you would be wise to go to a site where the Moderator censors personal attacks. Our Moderator has chosen not to censor personal attacks and we have to live with it. He is the Big Kahuna on this blog site and can do as he pleases and wishes. He is the BOSS. I am 100% against personal attacks and I do not start them....especially since the Moderator many months ago asked us to change our tone towards each other. Almost every blogger maybe with the exception of you and one more person has chosen not to listen.

2. Your defense against me fails....really fails miserably. If a prosecutor tries to research a charge and can not come up with conclusive evidence and facts, he is not suppose to charge. He can not say I tried hard. You had baredly tried. And when you tried for ONE SINGLE HOUR you determined the truth. Anyone's reputation here or in real life should be worth an hour of someone else's time. How would you like it if someone attacked you in a false manner because in one hour he could not verify what you said was truthful or accurate???

3. You may be too young to be familiar with the Nicarico Case which was about the murder of a young 10 yr old girl named Jenine in 1983 when Naperville was small and a very tight knit community. The prosecutors in that case were desperate to find the murderer of Jenine. Just like you were desperate to find this article. They jumped to conclusions just like you did. They brought false charges(accusations) just as you did. They convicted the wrong innocent Hispanic kids, not once but many many times and sent them to death row. Many different juries and even the Appellant and Supreme Courts convicted or upheld their convictions over and over again. They were incarcerated in death row cells for over 10 years...at least 2 of them. The third got a break somewhere along the line.

Making a long story short, due to some work by Northwestern Professors and Law Students, the City of Naperville and really the entire county of Dupage who provided jury pool after jury pool that convicted based on peer, prosecutorial and societal pressure were finally forced to smell the coffee and the taxpayers took a bath in a lawsuit bought by the Hispanic victims.....deservedly so. I paid up too, my pro rata share on my real estate tax bill. We all took it up the wazoooo. (Maybe not you, because you may live in the Kane or Will County portion of Aurora.)

4.You need to understand that your excuse that "I tried for a while" is LAME. Very LAME!!!

5. I bring this Nicarico Case and the Napergate Case up time and time again, so people can understand what happens when you fall for the peer pressure of a bunch of folks who are in a Lynch Mode Mentality. I would have expected much more from you, Former WV Mom, as you did not appear to have anything in common with the stooges and idiots that roam this blog site with nothing better to do or say. Just like those gangbangers in Chicago, Aurora, and Joliet hang on the street corners late at night when you are sleeping.

(Just practicing my bold and italics so I get a better hang for it. How about some help with color, JQP? Thanks in advance.)

6. Yes, you did me a favor after doing me a disfavor and disservice. Please don't forget it was you who questioned my numbers and no one else initially. It is YOU who questioned my credibility and reputation. You planted the seed that started a near riot on this blog site against my honest and accurate numbers, even though not the most recent, unbeknownst to me at the time. But they were from the US Govt. when drug use was not quite as bad as it is today. When marijuana consumption was only about 31% and not nearly 40% as your more recent report indicated before you found my report. This one item alone, if you had used your common sense and a little logic, would have given you a great signal that he/she/it did not fudge. If someone is making a case for drug use being so bad in Naperville he/she/it would fudge the drug number and not the alcohol number which is not considered to be a drug and is legal at the age of 21.

7. Back off. Why? You did help me after you attempted to sink my credibility in a grave with all the others. I told you thank you even though you delivered me to the graveyard on the verge of burial. I have commended you and complemented you so many times on this blog site. You seem to be the kind of lady who is probably very pretty and looks in the mirror sees a tiny imperfection and thinks she is ugly. That is your problem not mine. Your self esteem of yourself is what you perceive it to be. I have said so many nice things about you that I genuinely meant. But you want to focus on some of your statements that you made and I did not like. Back off. Why? Because I proved you WRONG! And have some self confidence and do not doubt yourself so much just because someone constructively critiques your words, facts and/or opinions. How many times do I have to say you are a fine and decent lady before it sinks in your thick skull? What you need is thick skin and not a thick skull to debate here....your thin skin is the root of all your problems, Former WV Mom. Trust me, I know what I am talking about. Maybe if I revealed my graduate degrees to you, you would have more faith in what I am saying to you. (But I am sticking with the advice of JQP and not releasing anything about myself that would allow bloggers to close in on me. MSU had over 45,000 students each year and since I did not reveal my graduation year, I could be one of 100,000 students who graduated in the 70's. So that was a calculated revelation and I already had told JQP when I was watching the National Championship College Hoops game in April and overly excited before we bit the dust.)

8. Have I laid any of my choice words against or towards you. No, I have not and will not. I have called you every nice word in the Webster Dictionary that I could think of without opening it. Just review all of the posts. I stated you are wonderful, sincere, have a big heart, highly moralistic, very ethical, helpful, decent, caring and many other nice words that I can not rememeber. I feel these words apply to you. Do you not agree with me and if so why? I say it as it is. I am sincere and honest. When I feel a blogger is a monkey, I call him a monkey. If I feel he is a donkey, I will call him a donkey. I don't hold back. So please stop doubting my sincerity and honesty. I am not here to play games.(On the other hand you have not said one nice thing about me the IMPERFECT PARENT with the IMPERFECT DAUGHTER whom both have tried their best to work through the challenges of this earth.)

9. And just because you disagree with a blogger, it does not mean you dislike that blogger. I disagree with you and John Q. Public but honestly find you both very likable people. I also disagree with the Moderator but find him a decent, likable person with a conscience. At the same time, I feel the Moderator is influenced by some of this negative blog peer pressure against me just like I feel you and JQP are. I am actually certain of that. He may be in denial just as you both are. But it does not bother me the least bit, since he has been posting 100% of my posts in recent weeks and as you all observed I am able to fend for myself very well whether I use one handle or multiple handles.

10. Finally, it is my hypocritical opposition who can not fend for themselves and have resorted to using mutliple handles repeatedly. Ever so obvious! What a bunch of fools! I won't call them donkeys yet but let the readers of this blog judge for themselves. They destroyed their own case that they attemtped to bring against me for using the same tactics they allegedly accused me of using......LOL!

========================================================================================================================================

And many thanks, Mr. Moderator, for once again stating I am "obviously intelligent." As to why I lower myself to the level of the Kindergarten Kids on your blog site, unfortunately it is the only way I can communicate with them. Unfortunately, it is because you approve their posts that attack me in an unprovoked manner. This last time they attacked me was, because I was simply discussing my daughter with this nice Former WV Mom. Can any one person deny that the gang infiltrated our discussion and began these vicious and unprovoked attacks. If anyone does, I am stating they lied in advance....and the record will clearly show that. You know that is the truth, Moderator, as you read every post before you approve it. Why not tell the bloggers that they started this latest battle after advising them not to get involved in such Kindergarten tactics? I did not start with one single blogger. I only responded at the level I was attacked...nothing more, nothing less. It is really hard to deny the truth when it is RECORDED before your eyes in black and white...with some BOLD and ITALICS thrown in....hopefully we can add some color soon to what has become a soap opera instead of a debate.

When an intelligent lady like Former WV Mom debates me, I give her an "intelligent and well thought out response" as I did above. I don't call her names while critiquing her erroneous statements...not HER PERSONALLY. I say many positive things about her because I know she is an inherently good lady just like my daughter who was led astray by elements in our society. (If I did overstep my boundaries and critiqued her personally, I did apologize twice to her as it was never my intention and it was unintentional....when you apologize you should be forgiven.)

I wish we had a few more like her so we can have graduate level debates instead of Kindergarten Level debates. Do you think Ken, CO, GJC, COO COO, TB, OWVY or the 3 stooges known as Fed Up with His Own Noise, Keyboard Rambo and Anonymous One can carry on an intellectual debate....may God have mercy on their brains and souls and help them all....and let us not forget those dozens of Anonymous Folks in hiding.

Enough said for now...try to comprehend before writing back...and try to respond intelligently if you have the ability. Leave the monkeys and donkeys at home, please!

And it would be so nice, Mr. Moderator, if you could find a way of getting your Kindergarten Class out of the past and into the present. How do you really expect to enter them into 1st Grade if you allow them to dwell on last year forever. While you are a very decent Moderator, I am not so sure about your teaching skills. You obviously are not a degreed teacher with a diploma....lol. Good luck anyway trying to tame the Kindergarten Children. You have your work cut out for you and I will not be offering any assistance.

CIJ Wrote: I was blogging as the character Melissa. As the character Ameena, I decided to spend several nights in the library researching the Napergate Man after his name came up and the Sun did a front page article about him. Ameena was retired after the Napergate Story was told as her role was accomplished. As the character Diana, I contacted a friend at the Tollway who provided the actual records to tollway violations of the Napergate Man's daughter.

_____________________

And this was all done in an effort to bolster your case? Aside from the fact of this being a little "creepy" (actually a lot creepy") It goes to your lack of credibility. You make things up in some misguided attempt at bolstering your case.

The following discussion didn't actually happen, but the jist of it is what has me (and many others) upset at your lowball tactics of debate. This, and many other, fictional debates took place on thread after thread until CIJ was finally busted as the multi handle blogger.

Melissa:
"Oh how I miss Ameena, She must be very busy at the hospital - I think she is a nurse"

Ameena:
"thanks Melissa, yes I have been working a double shift"

Melissa:
"You did such wonderful research about the NGM, you completely discredited the whole gang of 5, you are so intelligent"

Diana:
"I agree with Melissa, Ameena made the gang of 5 eat their words, they are as bad as the Naperville cops who arrested the NGM".

Ameena:
"Thank you Diana, The cops were horrible that night. We Napergatians have many influencial members and will rally to fight for our cause."

Diana:
"I agree with you Melissa, Ameena is a great researcher. She discredited the bloggers who are only on this site to get their rises. Why don't you boys go play with your gameboys"?

McFarland (also one of CIJ's many aliases):
"I have just been reading this blog for fun, I've never posted before, but really must jump in and say you ladies are doing a great job discrediting the immature boys. It sure sounds like the NGM got a raw deal, what's going on in this town? Keep up the great work Ameena and Diana".

Melissa:
"Thanks McFarland I've never seen you blogging before, welcome. We are part of the Napergatians who have 300-500 people actively blogging here, and our numbers are in the thousands in town".

McFarland:
"Why doesn't the Sun do anything about this stuff?"

And on, and on, and on, with each thread the CIJ invented new aliases all carrying on conversations with each other and trying to show great strength in numbers. For the CIJ to now claim innocence is disgusting. I know CIJ will never admit to any wrong doing, but I won't let him rewrite history.

Additional info from the Terms of Use
18. Violations Of These Terms

Company will determine your compliance with these Terms and any Additional Terms in its sole discretion. Any violation of these Terms or any Additional Terms may result in restrictions on your access to all or part of the Web Site

CIJ wrote:
"Former WV Mom,
I think your mistake here and you should acknowledge it, is that you made the accusation before you did the research."

See that's the problem. I had researched it on the organization's website (SRBSS). http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/yrbs/index.htm It was not to be found on there. There were results for other years but none of them matched the data and the article you had provided. I even stated I had looked on their website. So I had done some research within the files on the website of the organization that is named in the article. Your study, because of it's extreme age, was no longer on that site.

Like I said it took quite a few techniques of searching for me to finally find the study you quoted. I did not need to do that at all. I could have stopped after searching the organization's website. At which point, everyone on here would still be wondering if you fabricated the article you posted. Now they actually know you didn't.

So it is time for you to back off of me. I actually helped you out and let people know it was real and I've have been given nothing but grief by you about it. So it is time for you to back off.

I can always tell when you are lying the most, Sybil, and that is when you resort to your attack mode and kindergarten like name calling. Really, Kenny Boy, and Barbie Doll. Yet you claim to be a mature and capable debator?

As for the wheelchair, not that it is any of your business, but I will prove it when you volunteer to meet me in person, something you and all of your characters have always been afraid to do.

Sybil,
I am seriously concerned for your mental health. You sound like you are spinning out of control. You are nothing if not a series of contradictions. First, according to you, you do NOT use multiple handles, which you were blatantly caught doing. You used the multiple handle to come on the blog site and prop your previous posts. This was done in an attempt to make it sound like there were multiple individuals who agreed with you POV, with numerous pats on the back for being so insightful, brave, intelligent, etc. That's how you got the name 'Sybil'. Now that it behooves you, you admit to the multiple handles all in the name of journalistic research. You didn't want to muddy the topic with personalities. Well, your writing style is unique and your covers were as transparent as glass. Then you repeatedly accuse others of lying.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

You constantly post the fact that you think other bloggers here (namely anyone who doesn't agree with you) are Kindergarten Children. While others attempt to not get into the playground mentality with you, you repeatedly call them out, call them names, and you have taken the art of flogging a dead horse to new levels. You take it to the point of obliteration! Honestly, your posts are some of the most immature posts I have ever read on a blog site. For example, your last two paragraphs to Ken at 12:52am on August 16th are some of the most childish, nonsensical ramblings I have ever read. You should be ashamed to behave that way, but I think in your mind you feel justified. I find it humorously ironic that you constantly accuse others of 'oral diarrhea.

You will be forever defending yourself if you treat others the way you do.

By John Q. Public on August 14, 2009 12:43 AM
MHB wrote:

Thus he is on record as indicating you behave like Kindergarten Children.

Chris can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't excluding you when he said that.

========================================================================================================================================

The Moderator has made it clear that we are not allowed to speculate as to how he is thinking. Let us not go there. Stick with the facts.

He stated the bloggers are acting like Kindergarten Children while singling me out as intelligent. That is what he said. We are not allowed to speculate as to what he may be thinking.

You comment attempts to speculate into what he is thinking and he made that clear he dose not appreciate that.

But here is another way to look at it. How many Kindergarten Children that are learning the A B C's can really be described as intelligent. At that point their brains are sponges trying to grasp all the knowledge they can in the hopes of one day being intelligent.

You may have your answer if you use some logic and deductive reasong. I agree with the Moderator that we should not try to interpret how he is thinking. He does not want that. I don't blame him one bit.

Can you imagine if someone interpreted wrongfully what he is thinking? With the gang posse mentality on this blog site, I would not want to be him.

The Moderator is quite brilliant and usually a step ahead of most bloggers. That has been my observation and experience in dealing with him.

By Former WV Mom on August 14, 2009 2:54 PM
I did find that you did not fudge the numbers, not to be a hero, but because I am a person who was curious as to why the numbers were different. But if the shoe had been on the other foot, and I had been unwilling to post a link to the information I found, you would have accused me of fudging them.

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Former WV Mom,

I think your mistake here and you should acknowledge it, is that you made the accusation before you did the research.

If you were this concerned about the accuracy of the numbers, the proper course of action is to researh and then based on the results, either accuse or vindicate.

When the Prosecutor of those Duke Lacrosse Kids made wrongful accusations because he did not do the research first as you did not, he was literally hung to dry. I know he was terminated and I do not recall if he was imprisoned for a short while.

You behaved just like him. I was not attempting to hang you to dry. I asked for an apology and you said you are sorry and all is forgiven and we need to move forward. And please do not keep repeating yourself and mentioning the things I have already apologized for. If you do not want to forgive me after an apology as I have forgiven you, that is your prerogative but there is no need for all the repetition.

I am not like my numerous bashers who are stuck in last year and can not move forward. Broken records and parrots are more fun to listen to than them. I would rather go to the Brookfield Zoo and listen to the monkeys than listen to them. Last time I listened to the monkeys they did not sound like squeaky wheels that need to be oiled from spinning so many times over and over again.

I dont think any of us are afraid of some middle age lady who blogs at the wee hours of the night about her pot smoking kids...

By anonymous on August 15, 2009 6:24 PM

I wish you were an employee of mine, I'd love to fire your sorry butt, just because

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I am self employed and self sufficient....so keep dreaming.

I have always stated when it comes to someone trying to identify me, I will deny and throw bones in the wrong direction. I have always done that and will continue doing that to make sure you are all wasting your time.

Just for the record, if someone identifies me here, I will lie and say it is not ME. That to me is an acceptable white lie, as I do not want the crazies and whackos on this blog site to know who I am and where I live. At times I have been threatened by bloggers. I would they rather not know where I live than have them break into my house and have to unload some silver bullets into their heads. This is the USA and our constitution allows you to defend yourself in your home. I can't remember but is it the Second Amendment that allows us to bear arms and defend ourselves against intruders and/or enemies???

This issue of identity should have been understood from Day One. This is a sensitive issue for both me and others. I wish the Moderator would make a stand on the issue of keeping his bloggers anonymous.

Since there are actually some loose canons on your blog site, Moderator Chris, I urge you to maintain the anonymity of every individual including myself. I suspect most of your bloggers are borderline schizophrenic psychos based on their disoriented and irrational posts. Do you not see that finally? They are losing it right bere on your blog site. May God have Mercy on this souls.

By DBL BB Coo Coo on August 15, 2009 7:06 PM
The real reason for the multiple names......

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Too bad Moderator Chris does not show some fairness and begins identifying you folks who change your handles from post to post.

You are really all hypocrites.

Basically trying to leave an impression that there are more of you than really are.

Like I said I don't care if there are a 100 of you or a 1000 of you, none of you have a clue as to what you are reciting. A parrot understands its words better than most of you.

Your choice of a moniker indicates you are a monkey just like Ken.
Do you still have all your teeth or did you lose them like Kenny Boy when Barbie smacked him with an upper cut?

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Please note Moderator you are letting these attacks go to the gutter. I have no problem with how low you are letting your bloggers swoop. Please don't call for a truce this time. Let me finish them one at a time. The only request I have is to please not allow them to change their monikers so I can hold them accountable for their lies and filthy mouths. Let me destroy their credibilities by forcing them to stick to one handle per thread as they have requested of me. Their Moms never put soap in their mouths, so please allow me to teach them what their Moms never taught them....how to have some manners and be respectful of others.

Thank you for allowing me to handle these monkeys one after another. If they listened to you and stopped acting like Kindergarten Children we would be discussing important topics as I always try to.

And Moderator, I have never heard of this latest monkey, so please don't accuse me of starting these attacks. With not one single exception, others start them against me when I am simply discussing topics on your threads. Could it be more obvious at this point?

Ken,
I stated I picked names out of a rabbits hat. I identified the rabbits hat. Big deal. First names lead to nowhere with the exception of Ken who leads to Barbie.

Melissa and Diana are very common names. Ameena is actually Amy in another language. There were many Amys on the petition and I chose to use Ameena which is a translation of Amy. I am always a step ahead of you Kenny Boy. I have always felt from Day 1 that bloggers would one day want to identify me due to my unusual political views....my intuition has turned out correct. That is the reason I used multi-handles in the way I did. I like being the underdog taking on hundreds. That does not bother me. I don't need multiple handles to make my case.

You will find many Melissas, Amys, and a few Dianas...some Dianes also. You will find no Ameena. Don't be a fool and waste 5 hours of your time. I tipped you off like I tipped Former WV Mom beore she wasted her time and regretted it.

The Napergate Man may have had 10,000 supporters. I had reported that this petition only had about 3500 signers many times on this blog site in the past. My guess is half the people from the 90's or more don't even live in Naperville anymore. Naperville is a notoriously executive transferee town. Most Napergatians were middle class and I suspect they can no longer afford to live in Naperville and left long ago.

It is very probable that 10,000 people were involved with the Napergate Man and only 3500 signed the petition. If you recall the candidates he endorsed got about 10,000 votes each. And in one year 4 of the candidates he endorsed in his Napergate ads were elected.

Your constant accusations of lying are ridiculous. They show your utter studpidity and lack of maturity.

Now, Ken did you lie when you said you were in the wheel chair to get symapthy from the bloggers? Notice I am smart enough to ask you a simple question about possibly lying withhout libeling you. On the other hand you lie like a monkey with no teeth about me. Get some teeth, Ken, so your accusation of lies won't come out so easily next time..

If you want to fight me in the gutter, I will fight you in the gutter, Kenny Boy. I am no softie Barbie Doll that you can mess around with at your convenience.

Wow. First Sybil said he/she/it made up names, but now he/she/it states that they were real people whose names were taken from petitions. He/she/it goes on to say that he/she/it knows that they wouldn't mind if people figured out who they were because he "was praising their iconic hero".

So now we find out that not only does Sybil illegally obtain information from the tollway, he/she/it also employs a sort of identity theft. Before Sybil claims there is no way anyone could figure out who was who by only the first names, I have to point out that Ameena and Melissa are not common names, and Diana is only marginally more common.

Not only that, another one of Sybil's lies is exposed. Sybil constantly claimed 10,000 people were involved with the napergate man, but now admits only 3,500 signed petitions.

The really sad thing is, that with all these lies, Sybil still thinks he/she/it has credibility.

The real reason for the multiple names Physco, was because you wanted people to believe there was mass support for your crazy, and I do mean crazy ideas, period. It was for no other reason and when you were exposed by the Naperville Sun editors, you were made a fool of and will be forever. Give it up, there are only one or two people left blogging here with you and we know the truth. There is no one else here, that is why you have been archieved because the Sun and nobody else wants to hear about anything you have to say...

By Former WV Mom on August 15, 2009 3:37 PM

Yes, you have done that numerous times on this blog. Every time I have said anything to disagree with you.
I do not call you names and cut you down, I merely point out your actions when I feel they are not appropriate. Very different tactics from yours. I attack the actions and words, not the person.

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I have also only attacked your actions and words to the best of my recollection. If I ever overstepped my boundaries and attacked you personally please accept my 3rd apology. My comments about your persona have been frequent and sincere. I do think you are a very fine lady with not only a conscience but a huge heart.

On the other hand you have attacked me personally and never said one good word about me. I found the good in you. You never saw any good in me. You were always looking for bad and only found bad. While I rarely go to Church, I think they teach you to look for the good in a person and not always the bad. Not to throw stones that you would not want thrown at yourself.

And I do appreciate your sincerity and honesty in revealing that article when you posted it. You showed you are an ethical person with extremely high morals. As you said you did not have to do it. So I was sincere when I said you are a wonderful woman. If you don't believe that I am sincere when I am sincere, maybe you are the naive woman that I once thought you were, but retracted with an apology.

I did not appreciate all your allegations, insinuations and/or accusations that I may have fudged the numbers. Why would I do that? I have been on this site for 3.5 years and no one has ever accused me of fudging numbers or found that I ever have fudged one single number. Not even my worse enemies which easily number in the hundreds since the Moderator identified me as the MULTI-HANDLE BLOGGER.

The only CHARGE against me is that I am the MULTI-HANDLE BLOGGER as if it is a Class X Felony crime. It is not even against blog rules to use more than one handle or change your handle.

If a rule is passed, I promise to honor that rule and never change my handle even though I tend to get bored very quickly. I obviously can fend for myself very well. I don't need multiple handles to fend for myself or my numerous causes. That should be crystal clear by now to all bloggers and the Moderator. If I have to take on a 1000 bloggers when and because I know I am right, I will take them on. I don't succumb to any kind of pressure when I know I am right. I learned that from reading the history of the Napergate Man. Maybe if you would study him as I did, Former WV Mom, you would not succumb so easily to blog peer pressure which you have whether you want to admit it or not. It is ever so obvious that you have and ever so obvious that you are in DENIAL. I am not giving up on you as I never gave up on my daughter. As far as the 3 stooges they are hopeless and I gave up on them a very long time ago. I am not even going to buy them tombstones. Maybe one last pizza...but never a tombstone.

I was just attacked by dozens of bloggers and sliced, diced, chopped and even roasted them. You saw that with your own 2 eyes take place right here on this blog site....or more specifically this thread.

The reason you were so suspicious that I would tamper with numbers of a survey is that you were very heavily influenced by blog peer pressure.

Deny that all you want but it is as apparent as a deer in the headlights of car.

And why all those attacks on my personal abilities to use computers. When I went to Michigan State in the 70's, there were no computers. Some time right before I graduated they brought computers the size of the 70" Electrolux Refrigerator I just bought. I kid you not. I never took a computer class while obtaining my undergraduate and graduate degrees.

My kids taught me how to use a computer and I feel sufficiently competent. I have said here many times that I like to move forwards and not backwards. That could be why I never bothered to check the history feature. I am now familiar with it thanks to you. I also now know how to bold thanks to Anonymous.(Does anyone know how we can use colors?)

I did say I am on this blog site to learn and I am learning a lot each and every day.

Thanks to all those who teach me new things daily. That is what life is about. Learning, experimenting and living life to the fullest. Bashing bloggers is not something I find interesting or rewarding.

I clearly remember Sybil arguing to death the fact that he was not using different names back in the day, even saying the the IT guys that were giving advice about how the IP addresses worked did not know what they were doing when Chris published that long and extensive list of names with the same IP. Even to the point of saying that IP address info is flawed. And now he admits with pride that he has been a multitude of personalities, whole support groups here, in fact? What a ridiculed individual he has made himself into.

Lie much, Sybil? And you wonder, with your flaming remarks and faux superiority, why others are in retaliation mode every time you slip up? Boo Hoo, you bring on every sorry comment written about yourself by yourself, quit your infantile whining and quit your infantile patting yourself on the back with your own self-righteous compliments and quit your infantile complaining and explaining. The space under your rock is calling you back.

I wish you were an employee of mine, I'd love to fire your sorry butt, just because.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 15, 2009 3:37 PM

The problem I see with most bloggers on this site, is that they appear to be lazy and not willing to get off their behinds and see what is going on, out in the real world that we blog about.

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Of course we know that there is another one of the bloggers on this site who is also too lazy and unwilling to get off his behind and see what's going on. For example, during the first discussion of Ribfest, that blogger questioned the detail of fund raising expenses on the Exchange Clubs financial records. That blogger asked repeatedly for someone to supply the detail of those expenses. When someone asked why that blogger did not call or email the Exchange Club to get the information--even supplying names, numbers, addresses and email addresses--the blogger replied that he was not about to single handedly investigate the issue.

CIJ wrote
"Former WV Mom was also a very favorite blogger before she succumbed to blog peer pressure in a way I could never have imagined. They wrapped her around their little pinky fingers and began directing her how to perform. It was absolutely sickening to see such a mature woman fall for the games of a gang banging internet posse. I am glad she knows how to stay away from the real gang bangers in Aurora who could pose a real and serious threat to her."

That was totally unnecessary and uncalled for. I have said it over and over on here, no one influenced me to think anything on here but you and your behavior. It was your words, your treatment of me, and your attitude only. "You reap what you sow."

MHB:

There's not much in your post for me to comment on other than to re-iterate that while you offered a lot of circumstantial evidence that your daughter does in fact dance for Xtreme Dance and was a part of their championship dance squad, none of it is really conclusive---none of it ultimately proves, to anyone who is committed to not believing you, that what you say is true. The key here is that your lack of credibility in the minds of some bloggers seems to be such that they just aren't going to believe what you say short of having hard, physical evidence thrust in their faces.

This is obviously frustrating to you, but it is also somewhat ironic, because I've often seen you exhibit this same attitude of I'm not going to trust what you say because it doesn't jibe with what I believe. Remember: you do indeed reap what you sow.

There's also this:

14. People on this blog site need to learn to be less prejudiced against a person who upset them for daring to use multi-hanles. Mutli-handles are not prohibited on this blog site and continue to be used by many others(including hypocrites) and ME to this date.

15. The Moderator disclosed a FACT to you last year about my use of multi-handles. He did not ask anyone to go on a rampage against me. He did not ask for this nonsense in any of his comments. He even called this behavior that of Kindergarten Children and he has yet to withdraw that comment. He was 100% right and there is no ifs, buts or ors regarding the truth of his accurate comment that has withstood the test of time. History will show his comment was right on the money. (Moderator this is NOT an opinion of what you may think but a fact as to what you said or did not say. Therefore I hope this is acceptable.)

Three points:

1) You know darn well that it was not just your use of multiple handles that upset so many of us. I'd give a more detailed explanation for what was so disturbing about your behavior, but I've already done this at least a couple of times, and so have several other bloggers, so one more time isn't likely to penetrate the thick shield of denial that's been "protecting" you from the truth.

2) You earned the rampage that was unleashed against you when the Moderator exposed your deceitful behavior, and you'll continue to hear about it for as long as you try to downplay it or otherwise misrepresent it.

3) I honestly don't know what makes you think that the Moderator's "Kindergarten children" comment was not also directed at you. Either your photographic memory is out of focus, or you didn't understand what he said.

-JQP

John Q. Public,

First, thanks for helping to keep this debate as civil as possible unlike many others. As I have said before you are one of my 2 favorite bloggers. JFTR, my choice of favorite bloggers is not based on someone who agrees with me. It is based on someone who disagrees with me and knows how to debate. Former WV Mom was also a very favorite blogger before she succumbed to blog peer pressure in a way I could never have imagined. They wrapped her around their little pinky fingers and began directing her how to perform. It was absolutely sickening to see such a mature woman fall for the games of a gang banging internet posse. I am glad she knows how to stay away from the real gang bangers in Aurora who could pose a real and serious threat to her.

Secondly, I just want to give another reason why I am not in any way affiliated with Xtreme Dance. All of the owners, directors and teachers are in their twenties and thirties with no exceptions that I know of. I AM TWICE THEIR AGE.

The problem I see with most bloggers on this site, is that they appear to be lazy and not willing to get off their behinds and see what is going on, out in the real world that we blog about.

When the Ponds of Hobson West was being discussed I made two trips to the site to observe. I was blogging as the character Melissa. As the character Ameena, I decided to spend several nights in the library researching the Napergate Man after his name came up and the Sun did a front page article about him. Ameena was retired after the Napergate Story was told as her role was accomplished. As the character Diana, I contacted a friend at the Tollway who provided the actual records to tollway violations of the Napergate Man's daughter. Those records later could be found in the court case as you can not bring forward a case in court without the evidence. So insinuations that these records were top secret and obtained illegally is just ridiculous and baseless. Anyone can go to Dupage County and will see the 4 violations he was charged with regarding tolls. You can not just bring charges in this country without providing the evidence....the time...the facts....the pictures.

Anyway, I am not going to try to summarize the last 3.5 years. You have been on this blog site for quite a long time and you know what I am talking about.

Ameena, Melissa, and Diana were discussing entirely different issues most of the time. They were actually names that I randomly picked out from the list of the petition of 3500 residents who supported the Napergate Man in the nineties.

I did not know any of them. I just felt like using only their first names. Period! Since I supported the Napergate Man I did not feel they would ever object if they ever were identified or found out as I was only praising their iconic hero. Nothing more and nothing less. I only used their first names to respect and maintain their anonymity even though the names were on a petition introduced into court records as an Exhibit with an identifying number.

That is why I think a big deal is being made over nothing regarding my use of multi-handles both in the past and present.

I should be shot for telling him how to bold and italicize. Kid with a new toy!

By John Q. Public on August 14, 2009 9:23 PM
JQP wrote:

I was merely pointing out that everything we know about your daughter and her participation in Xtreme Dance Force has come from your posts, and that, for all any of us know, you are making this up. You obviously know a lot about the organization, even to the point of knowing when their banquet takes place, but that does not prove you have a daughter who dances there (you could be an employee, for example).

That said, I have no doubt that you were telling the truth about all of this, the more so because you had no vested interest in imparting this information (other than plugging Xtreme Dance, that is).

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1. Yes, everything you know about my daughter did come from these posts. I don't believe the event was given any coverage by the Naperville Sun.

2. But I did provide corroboration to what I said which makes it more than heresay.

3. I stated she was part of an XTREME DANCE FORCE TEAM from Naperville participating in the National Championships nearly a month in advance. Upon learning they made it as one of the final 8 teams on the final day, I found out through announcements in Myrtle Beach that the Championship will be broadcast live world wide. I recall giving the link.

4. I also announced times and place for their Celebratory Showcase which took place in St. Charles before sell-out and near sell-out crowds for 4 consecutive days to celebrate their championship. I don't believe this was in the Sun either.

5. I revealed that a Farewell Banquet took place to honor the 21 graduationg dancers after it was completed as it was not meant for the public to attend or participate in. It was a private event.

6. Which brings us to the probability that I could be an owner, director, or teacher or this studio and not a parent which is what you are alleging is a possibility.

7. I think the proof that I am not an owner, director or teacher of this great Dance Studio is right on this blog site. When you blog your TIME is RECORDED. Do you doubt the accuracy of the times on these posts. I don't?

8. I can tell you the owners and employees of this Dance Studio put in more time than the dancers. Many of them work 80 hours a week. National Championship teams are not born that way. They have to put the time in. The owner is a very involved director/teacher and I believe he is the one that choreographed that Brittany Xtreme Dance (BXD) dance routine which won the championship. His great staff choregraphed dances that took a second 1st place in a specific category and 2 second places in additional specific categories. Thus 4 dances by this studio, out of the 700 performed in Myrtle Beach, were either the top(BXD overall winner in all categories) or in the top 15 out of the 700 performed over 5 days.

9. Directors and teachers of this studio who work 80 hour weeks could never blog as often as I do or put in the hours I do or at the unusual times I blog. Honestly, if you knew their hectic schedules, it is completely impossible that they could blog as I do. Thus that eliminates your theory that I could be employed by the studio and not a parent.

10. I do not own a business or work for a corp. I do own passive real estate which is much easier to run than a retail operation. I trade stocks from my home between 830pm-300pm M-F which gives me the flexibility to blog as I wish. I have learned to program my computer to do the buying and selling which gives me more time to blog. Something I obviously enjoy especially when it is peaceful and educational.

11. I believe I provided the highest standard of proof possible that I am a parent of a young lady on a National Dance Team short of identifying myself or herself. Something I am unwilling to do. Something you and I know is not going to happen,John Q. Public.

12. Most bloggers do not provide the sort of proof I provide on a consistent basis, but run around here with loose mouths insinuating, doubting, lying and and in many cases even libeling.

13. When you get a herd mentality influenced by blog pressure, peer pressure or societal pressure, these things can happen to anyone. We know they happened to the Napergate Man. We know what happened to the Nicarico 3. We also know this is the exact reason why extreme effort is put in picking a jury before a serious trial. And despite those serious efforts we have had lynching after lyching in this state of innocent people. I believe the number taken off death row and released in the last few years has now exceeded 20. Look at how that wonderful Former WV Mom was almost detroyed by blog peer pressure. She just fell for it like a teenager falls for high school peer pressure.

14. People on this blog site need to learn to be less prejudiced against a person who upset them for daring to use multi-hanles. Mutli-handles are not prohibited on this blog site and continue to be used by many others(including hypocrites) and ME to this date.

15. The Moderator disclosed a FACT to you last year about my use of multi-handles. He did not ask anyone to go on a rampage against me. He did not ask for this nonsense in any of his comments. He even called this behavior that of Kindergarten Children and he has yet to withdraw that comment. He was 100% right and there is no ifs, buts or ors regarding the truth of his accurate comment that has withstood the test of time. History will show his comment was right on the money. (Moderator this is NOT an opinion of what you may think but a fact as to what you said or did not say. Therefore I hope this is acceptable.)

MHB wrote:

PS. Your remarks are in my opinion an intended trap to get me to reveal more about my personal life. Sorry, but you got the maximum on this issue. No more details. I need to heed JQP's advice at some point.

I'm the one who made the post. I forgot to put my handle in the Name field, but I did sign the post with my initials. It was not an effort to get you to reveal more information about yourself. I was merely pointing out that everything we know about your daughter and her participation in Xtreme Dance Force has come from your posts, and that, for all any of us know, you are making this up. You obviously know a lot about the organization, even to the point of knowing when their banquet takes place, but that does not prove you have a daughter who dances there (you could be an employee, for example). And as long as Chris does not reveal the IP address from which you made the Myrtle Beach posts, we can't verify that you were there.

That said, I have no doubt that you were telling the truth about all of this, the more so because you had no vested interest in imparting this information (other than plugging Xtreme Dance, that is). You could prove it to the doubters by revealing your name, but I'm not saying you should do that. What would be the point other than "winning" what really is an inconsequential argument? It would prove conclusively that you weren't lying, but it wouldn't damage their credibility one iota, because they have no way of knowing the truth. It's a little like the situation with you and Experienced a few weeks ago. He (I'm assuming he's a guy) kept insisting that he is a Forensic Accountant, and you kept asserting your belief that he is a City of Naperville attorney. But what proof could he offer you short of revealing his name that he is not a Naperville attorney?

-JQP

This silly blog seems to on its final crazy post from you know who, I like the new term Bipolar Blogger instead of CIJ... One great thing that came out of it, Double BB (short for bipolar blogger) has been kept on the archieves so the only people who read this stuff are the five or so participating.

Yawn...

Thx Naperville Sun for keeping BB in check.

This is a test.

To make something bold:
Text to bold

To make something italic:
Text to italicize

Hello Moderator

Bye Moderator

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It took me 3.5 year but I finally got it. Thanks Anonymous.

See, Former WV Mom, I am willing to learn but I do not know EVERYTHING. Don't assume if I don't know something, I am trying to deceive you. I will practice using that History in case I forget to post a link in the future in addition to a portion of the article.

I am a good debator and like to debate fair and square. And I know you did too before you fell for this blog peer pressure. Just be strong, Former WV Mom.

And please don't keep mentioning our first encounter. You requested an apology and you got it. Once you get an apology for "bad behavior" on my part to continue to bring it up is classless and disrespectful. It is like beating a dead horse.

If you want to continue beating the dead horse, please don't ask for an apology. Is that fair, Former WV Mom?

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You can now consider caps ANCIENT HISTORY Moderator.

I am continuing to practice...thanks for encouraging me to continue trying. It finally worked in the time a freshman can become a senior...lol...at least it only took 3.5 years and not the full 4 years required to graduate with a college degree.

By Former WV Mom on August 14, 2009 2:54 PM
I have not been stirred in any wrong directions by anyone on here.

YES YOU HAVE.

You are just upset because I was able to find more up-to-date information both locally and nationally. And yes while some numbers were slightly worse, I also posted a link to indicate that the trend is going down in all of the numbers.

THIS DOES NOT UPSET ME. I AM THE ONE TIRED OF HEROIN DEATHS AND WANT DRUGS IN THIS TOWN CURTAILED. YOUR BETTER NEWS MADE ME HAPPY.
THE COVER-UP OF THE HEROIN DEATHS IS WHAT IS UPSETTING ME.

In what way did I bust myself? That is such a ridiculous statement.

YOU FALSELY ACCUSED ME OF BEING UNWILLING TO PROVIDE A LINK TO A SITE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY ENHANCE MY CREDIBILITY. SIMPLY RIDICULOUS. AVG CLEANS MY COMPUTER EVERY NIGHT AT 330AM AND I LOSE EVERYTHING. I HAD TO WRITE THE SAME LETTER TO YOU TWICE LAST NIGHT BECAUSE IT WAS DELETED DURING THE REBOOTING. Don't assume all computers behave the same. They have their own minds as we humans have our own minds. Do you think Chris' Web Site is listening to him or his technicians at this very moment?

Everything on here that I have said can be proven. It would be very easy for anyone with any searching ability to figure out who I am based on what I have said about my kids alone.

THE DISCUSSION ABOUT YOUR KIDS WAS LAST MONTHS NEWS AND IS IRRELEVANT JUST LIKE NAPERGATE. WE RESOLVED THAT, APOLOGIZED AND SAID YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT YOUR KIDS. (I commend your kids and their friends for behaving in such an exemplary manner....there is no more dispute here. Would you like a 3rd apology?)

Again, you have a computer. Chances are (unless for some reason you have changed the basic settings or know next to nothing about computers) the link would be in the history.

I CHECKED and THERE WAS NO LINK IN THE HISTORY. DO COMPUTERS SAVE LINKS IN THE HISTORY AFTER YOU CLOSE A WINDOW AND USE ANOTHER ONE? DO COMPUTERS SAVE HISTORY AFTER AVG PURGES THE COMPUTER CLEAN EACH NIGHT AND RESTARTS IT? I AM NO EXPERT IN COMPUTERS BUT I TRY VERY HARD. (Can you please tell me how to use italics and bold so I can stop screwing with the Moderator's eyes which is not my intention. I have experimented and failed. What is a carat? Can anyone give detailed instructions just for once? Maybe you also don't know how to use italics and bold....am I scolding you....please stop scolding me all the time if I don't know something about computers. I am always willing and trying to learn. Don't forget I am ancient and not from the new age of the computers. I had no schooling in them and I was not a teacher or librarian.) However I learned how to program my computer so it can do my buying and selling for me on the NYSE and NASDAQ while I blog. So I am not completely illiterate. I even had my computer through "earned trading revenue" pay for all the appliances I had to buy the other day. Do you know how to do that, WV Mom? Do you see me cutting you down like you constantly cut me down? Please have compassion and mercy. I am the number one attacked peron on this blog site. I don't need more attackers.

I did find that you did not fudge the numbers, not to be a hero, but because I am a person who was curious as to why the numbers were different.

YOU WERE TOLD REPEATEDLY THAT MY SURVEY WAS PROBABLY OLDER. YOU CONTINUED TO INDICATE THAT YOU WERE SUPSPICIOUS I FUDGED THE NUMBERS. IF I SAID THAT ABOUT YOU, YOU WOULD BE RALLYING THE STOOGES AGAINST ME.

But if the shoe had been on the other foot, and I had been unwilling to post a link to the information I found, you would have accused me of fudging them.

I HAVE NEVER ACCUSED YOU OF FUDGING NUMBERS. YOUR NUMBERS DID NOT JIVE WITH MINE. DID I ACCUSE YOU OF FUDGING? (When you saw the marijuana numbers were worse in your report you should have taken a clue there was no fudging. You have been tormented and corrupted by blog peer pressure, unfortunately.)

I didn't need to say that you hadn't fudged the numbers because I said I had found the actual article and provided the link that proved it.

WELL THAN YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD "ANONYMOUS ONE" OFF WHO COMMENDED YOU FOR MAKING AN UNUSUAL DISCOVERY AGAINST MY CREDIBILITY. YOU SAID NOTHING. (It would have been nice to say to those less intelligent than you, that after comparing both articles not one single number was altered, fudged or changed. Maybe we should not be so harsh on this person.)

And despite my "tough love" style in debating you, I have expressed that you are a very nice lady many many times. I have meant that. Debate sometimes is not pleasant....but that does not mean I don't think you are an extradordinary woman. Just don't join the POSSE.
Thanks!

PS. And keep a safe distance from the 3 stooges...unless you want to slap them around for me...lol...

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator, I don't like these capitals either. I suspect someone will tell us in plain English how we can bold and italicize soon. Please be patient. I think you know what I am trying to do. WV Mom skirted around my last post and I think this method prevents her from skirting around so easily. I want her to be more accountable to what she says and not wizzle out so easily.

I just saw the new instructions posted after I already wrote this. I promise, Moderator, I will start experimenting immediatley. I can't promise I will succeed. Any more instructions from anyone for COLOR?

I have tried to post the instructions for bolding and italics but they don't come out right.

Pace University uses the same software on its website. Go Here:

http://www.pace.edu/pace/current-students/commencement/

scroll down to the very bottom of the page and read the instructions.

By Anonymous on August 14, 2009 10:45 AM
MHB wrote:

A few problems with your plan: nothing that you've said about yourself is verifiable unless people know who you are, so you're not really proving anything.

========================================================================================================================================

I disagree with you. I feel I proved with little doubt that I have a daughter on the Xtreme Dance Force Team that won a National Championship.

I also mentioned she was competing when there were still 50 teams standing. I had no clue her team would win. I also invited people to watch the competition live on an internet broadcast. The World Victory Trophy was also awarded live. And anyone who cared to watch could have seen her team receive it. The team was from Naperville where I live and not Alaska or Maine where I don't live. Other teams won second and third place trophies. But Naperville got the Big One. No other teams were even from the State of Illinois. They all got elminated in the regionals or before.

I blogged twice from the site so the Moderator who is an expert in deciphering IP numbers would know where I was or at least track the city or state.

I am not going to tell people who I am. The information I revealed on this blog site indicates that I am certainly the proud parent of one the girls...period. I believe there are at least another 100 proud parents of these Xtreme Force Dancers just like me.

Much of the information I published was not on the net or in the news such as the Farewell Banquet that took place last night. Parents just don't go to a Dance Contest across the country to watch an anonymous dance club they have no affiliation with especially when they have 4 children, a dog, a cat and every appliance in the house finally breaking down after 24 years.

I am also not a dance enthusiast by nature. I became one recently because of following my daughter's career.

And the only reason I let out even this much is because so many people accused me of not having a dancing daughter and making things up in order to try to damage my credibility in other areas. At some point you have to expose those who lie when the risk of exposure is minimum to none.

As far as those who said I was simply bragging, I need to remind them my daughter's team also won in 2007 and 2008. I did not say a word on this Blog Site even though I was a blogger at the time and was in Ocean Park and Las Vegas. This was all about CREDIBILITY...nothing more and nothing less.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PS. Your remarks are in my opinion an intended trap to get me to reveal more about my personal life. Sorry, but you got the maximum on this issue. No more details. I need to heed JQP's advice at some point.

By Mark F on August 14, 2009 4:51 AM
I will go on record saying CIJ is a woman as there have been numerous comments over the past year that I do not believe a male would ever make, especially not in a public forum. And no, I am not going to go back and pull them out of the archives. There have also been statements about things like college basketball, running sprints and the like that others will say point to a male......

Good luck to your family in all their endeavors. Congratulations to your daughter's team. And if your hot water heater is old, get that replaced before it decides to blow too. Your finished basement will thank you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Thanks for the congratualtions to my daughter's Xtreme Dance Force team. They really deserve them. And those people at the studio are just responsible for all this. Seriously amazing people....Johnny Wooden types. I would recommend this studio to anyone who wants a dancer to be someone some day.

2. I also would recommend that any exceptional basketball player in town consider Michigan State. They have a great coach and if they make it to the Final Four this year as expected, it will be 6 of 12 for them in the last 12 years which is the best in the nation. Every MSU basketball player under Coach Izzo has made it to the great dance known as the Final Four. They won National Championships in 1979 and 2000. Missed it by one game last year. I knew Magic Johnson and his Uncle who was a custodian in my dormitory very well. And no, I did not play on that "79 basketball team. I tried out for the MSU soccer team and got cut...(JFYI they have both male and female soccer teams)...so my son not getting cut yesterday was very sweet news for me. So my role at the University was basically a great fan and successfully obtaining some degrees. (And JQP was nice enough to console me after MSU lost to NC in the championship game this April...he could have rubbed it in a little but he did not.)

3. Where were you when I needed you to advise me to replace my sump pump in the basement. I did not replace it and never even thought about it and my basement was flooded badly one year after I finished it. I do not think a water heater that breaks down can do the damage of a broken sump pump. I would advise anyone with a finished basement to replace their sump pump every 5 years if you don't have a battery back-up and flood insurance. I now have both thankfully....after I made the mistake of not having the former. But I had the latter thankfully so it did not cost me....but very aggravating to say the least.

4. This craziness of people wanting to identify is not my doing. While you claim you don't condone this behavior you try to analyze if I am man or a woman. All I will say is you have a 50% chance of being right. My remarks about successfully maintaining my anonymity is to discourage people from trying. When I mention that people do not even know my gender after 3.5 years, I am really not trying to brag but to try to let people know this is an exericse that will only frustrate you. Go to the gym and work out instead of engaging in frustrating activities. That is all I am trying to do. Discourage and not encourage. Try to get people to focus on the interesting topics Chris puts up for us to discuss and debate.

Ask Former WV Mom about frustration. She spent an hour looking for an article even though she knew the name of the group that did the survey. Imagine trying to trace one anonymous person through another anonymous person while bones are being thrown in all the wrong directions all the time. It is just not worth it. Please understand it is not me who takes us in those directions.

I understand people may be frustrated since they do not even know my gender after 3.5 years, but the intent was not to frustrate anyone but to simply increase my chances of maintaining anonymity.

I saw what those in authority did to the Napergate Man when he wanted to hold them accountable for their wasteful spending habits that were costing the taxpayers up the wazooooo. I am taking no chances. I need my money for new appliances especially since they all decided to die of old age at the 24 year mark almost simultaneously and not for lawyers.

CIJ wrote
"As they saying says, you sow what your reap."

The saying is "you reap what you sow"

Something you should be taking into account.

I have not been stirred in any wrong directions by anyone on here. You are just upset because I was able to find more up-to-date information both locally and nationally. And yes while some numbers were slightly worse, I also posted a link to indicate that the trend is going down in all of the numbers. And since this is teh next year for the survey, it will be interesting to see what happens when teh 2009 study is released in the beginning of 2010.

In what way did I bust myself? That is such a ridiculous statement. Everything on here that I have said can be proven. It would be very easy for anyone with any searching ability to figure out who I am based on what I have said about my kids alone. And if they did, it would not be a big deal because I honestly have absolutely nothing to hide. They could look at my kids' Facebooks and see that what I have said about them is true. They could Google me and know how involved I have been in my kids' activities and the schools. (There is one other person in the area with the same name, but it can be figured out which is me and which is not.) I think the point is no one really cares because I don;t antagonize, irritate or challenge them.

Again, you have a computer. Chances are (unless for some reason you have changed the basic settings or know next to nothing about computers) the link would be in the history. In IE that means going to Tools-Toolbars-History. In Firefox It's on the very top and called "History." Very simple. I did find that you did not fudge the numbers, not to be a hero, but because I am a person who was curious as to why the numbers were different. But if the shoe had been on the other foot, and I had been unwilling to post a link to the information I found, you would have accused me of fudging them.
I didn't need to say that you hadn't fudged the numbers because I said I had found the actual article and provided the link that proved it.

I actually tried to help you some, give others the information that what you had posted was available, but again am attacked by you. So I am sure you will come back now and attack me again. I don't care about other Forums, as I said before I could care less about Napergate. That is such old news and not something that holds the slightest interest for me. My comments merely reflect your behavior in this forum alone. I am an optimist overall, I tend to look on the bright side of things and try to find the good in people. But you are making that very hard to do with your behavior on here.

A quick google search led me to this specific article that was within another article. There was no heading on it or date on it.

So why cite it as a source in the first place?

Sybil,
Why do you seem so intent on carrying on with this conspiracy theory? Everyone here is out to get you, in your opinion. You must bust everyone on credibility, research, etc and you make wild comments in the above post like:
"This nonsense will get you to nowhere but to the plot at the graveyard I purchased to bury all the Coffins of Credibility that I have now lined up for a MASS FUNERAL and later BURIAL. The only delay is because I am trying to buy a larger plat."

Seriously, this is a blog site. Why do you feel you are the only one with correct or relevant information? Why do you feel that you have to fight with everyone? Why can't you just debate without the childishness? I honestly hope you step away from the keyboard long enough to read some of the comments people direct to you and realize how abnormal many of your comments appear; all the silly monikers you use and the wild tangents. Maybe you should take some time off and get out in the real world or find a therapist who can help you with the obvious paranoia.

Again, I'm sorry if this appears mean. I really think you need some help and I hope you seek it. This isn't intended as a jab.

By Former WV Mom on August 13, 2009 7:39 PM
By not being willing to post the link, it does make me think that you fudged a few numbers.

========================================================================================================================================

1. I was more than WILLING to post the link but did not have it.

2. I had copied and pasted without saving the page or posting the link as I did not believe it was a requirement to do so.

3. My second copy and paste of this article came from my first C and P that was already posted on this thread.

4. A quick google search led me to this specific article that was within another article. There was no heading on it or date on it. I simply failed to save the link to the article.

5. I did spend 15 minutes for your sake to try to find this article again. I forgot what exact phrase I had googled and it never popped up again. Sometimes google or yahoo give you 1000 pages when you make an inquest. I am not a former librarian and do not have your expertise in searching even though I did a pretty good job searching the library as Ameena for the historical records pertaining to the Napergate Man and Movement. If you want to take another stab at my CREDIBILITY, try also reviewing those monumental records and my posts off those Napergate Ads and Napergate Trial Documents. Maybe you can further verify my credibility.

6. I told the bloggers I recall cutting the article off when it begain dealing with cocaine usage. I had indciated from memory that is was 6.1%. You later found the article and it was 6.6%. I was not exaggerating. If I had the article and was hiding it from you as you seem to think and believe, I would have been able to know it was 6.1%. At least my recollection was close and certainly not exaggerated. Heaven forbid that I would have recollected wrongfully and stated it was 8.1%. You and all the bloggers would have tried to put my coffin of credibility next to yours to be buried in the mass grave.

7. The marijuana number in your report was 21.4% worse than my report so this should have been a strong hint after I pointed this out to you that I was not fudging numbers. You refused to take my hint.

8. The fact that you would think I would fudge a few numbers after you and I have been chatting for 1.5 or 2 months, shows you are falling for blog pressure and being strongly influenced by it. You should have a better feel for me after 1.5 months. You seem to have a great feel for those who enter your basement by doing small chatt for a few minutes. You and I have been involved in much more than small chat.

9. The reason you spent an hour searching for this old artilce which I stated was probably older, was to try to be a hero with the blog bashers by showing I have no credibility. You ended up being a goat like the one that refuses to let the Cubs win a World Series after 101 years.

10. Despite your strong suspicians that I fudged the numbers in this article and your determination to find out at any cost of time, you never cared to tell the bloggers, that you put this article under the microscope, reviewed every single number in CIG's copy and paste, and he/she/it DID NOT FUDGE ONE SINGLE NUMBER. Thank you for not making such a simple comment after wasting a precious hour of your time.

11. If I had fudged one single number and you discovered it, you would have made a DECLARATION to that nature. Why not make a declaration and confirm that it appears CIG's copy and paste was CREDIBLE and HONEST as he/she/it repeatedly stated.

12. Why not admit you were wrong when you stated I was not WILLING to post the link and maybe just did not have it as I stated repeatedly. If I had the link of course, I would have posted it as it would have enhanced my credibility since there was absolutely NO FUDGING of one SINGLE NUMBER of the possibly 50-100 or more in the report.

Finally, you declared what a waste of time this was. A whole hour of wasted time. How better spent your time certainly was with your husband at the Cub's game....could not agree with you more. Again, you chose to waste this time because after being influenced by the bloggers for a month you fell for their peer pressure and began to believe that CIG was not credible. You wanted to bust me so badly. ADMIT IT! You ended up busting yourself, Former WV Mom.

Not trying to be mean, but I am intelligent and I know if you had found ONE FUDGED number you and the gang bashing bloggers would have had a field day here and maybe even a parade.

As I said to them and to you. This nonsense will get you to nowhere but to the plot at the graveyard I purchased to bury all the Coffins of Credibility that I have now lined up for a MASS FUNERAL and later BURIAL. The only delay is because I am trying to buy a larger plat.

As they saying says, you sow what your reap.

Have a good day, Former WV Mom. I still think you are a great lady that is being stirred in the wrong direction just like my awesome daughter was by unfortunate peer pressure. You have a great heart and you need to get away from these trouble makers on this blog site. They will take you down the slippery hill and throw you off the cliff with them. Save yourself while you still have an opportunity.

MHB wrote:

The only reason I began releasing minor information about my personal life is to help me with my mission of exposing and destroying the credibility of most bloggers on this site. As you can see this is a systematic and organized process. It is working very well. Despite the additional clues I have given, no one even knows if I am a he/she/it. Yes, I am taking a tiny calculated risk as JQP points out, but if worse comes to worse, it is not like I am hiding from the law for some criminal activity. I just like my privacy in real life.

A few problems with your plan: nothing that you've said about yourself is verifiable unless people know who you are, so you're not really proving anything. Also it doesn't really hurt someone's credibility to possibly have been wrong about who you are and/or the details of your life (e.g., whether or not you have a daughter in Xtreme Dance), since they can only have been guessing---the more so since you've said yourself that you've purposely given some misleading clues as to your identity. Finally, if someone already has an idea who you might be, any truthful details you let out can help confirm who you are; there is an astonishing amount of information that can be gleaned from the Web these days.

-JQP

The Sybil says: What I am trying to bury is the credibility, integrity and reputations of those who accuse me or imply that I am lying...or that I distort...or that I embellish....or that I exaggerate.
This is what this is about. I am trying to debate and get attacked almost instantly in a very personal way. Either the Moderator chooses the subject or I choose a subject on the Open Topic Thread that interests me.

You see, it's all about perception on a site like this, Sybil. Perception is all these is, and it's all about style and how you present yourself in writing. Your constant attacking, under the guise of 'protecting yourself' can do nothing more than make enemies. The whole ridiculous 'kindergarten children' concept, all of the 'I'm smarter than you are' the ceaseless quantity of words that say little that is new or that advances your points.
I suspect that you already know this, but everything about the way you say things tends to undercut the points that you are seemingly trying to make. Personally, I believe that arguing in a forum like this is far, far more interesting to you than actually trying to debate, or to win a debate - or to even make a point.
In short, I've enjoyed this forum for a while now, and in the beginning of my time here I found your posts to be amusing - not useful, but eccentric. Lately, though, it does seem like you're spinning badly out of control.
Perhaps, Sybil, you might find something else to write about? Make yourself a new rule - a topic a week. 7 days writing about whatever hobby horse you wish to choose, and then, simply force yourself to move on, and never revisit the same subject again. You'll find that you don't get caught out in so many... fictions... and that people will be less likely to find you so deeply offensive, annoying and rude.
Just a thought. The message gets lost, Sybil, in your tone. If you were actually interested in debating, you'd try to change people's minds about things, and not just - well - spew.

Wow. The comments on this blog site get weirder and weirder, yet I seem unable to turn my head. It's like watching a train wreck.

Sybil stated:
"Sorry, I got you all on the defensive, but you must show some logic and reason when debating. Otherwise, line up at the mass grave for "credibility burial." I may need to buy a larger plot as the plot I bought appears way too small."

I find it comical that even though there have been numerous requests for a simple link to the site where all this valuable data is, Sybil is unable to provide it. Even though Former WV Mom gave him step-by-step instructions, I have yet to see a link. Our 'intelligent' little blogger keeps talking, yet really says nothing - in one thousand words or more. Why am I not surprised? It reminds me of the teacher in the Snoopy shows. Where's the link, Sybil? Don't provide stats if you can't back it up. That isn't being 'credible'. You are one of the most 'out there' bloggers I have ever read, yet you have the gall to label anyone who disagrees with you as "Kindergarten Children". That's just blatant irony that provides a daily chuckle.

And, Sybil continually proves how out of touch he is with reality - especially with his recent bashing of Ken with regard to being physically disbled and in need of a wheelchair. He accused Ken of blogging this information in an effort to gain attention and sympathy. First of all, I did not take Ken's comment in that way at all. Second of all, "Pot, meet kettle!"

It's humorous to me that he (Sybil) continues to toot his own horn and continually (ad nauseum) bring up the fact that Chris supposedly called him "intelligent" at some point. I never saw that alleged statement and I can't imagine what would have prompted that comment.

I will go on record saying CIJ is a woman as there have been numerous comments over the past year that I do not believe a male would ever make, especially not in a public forum. And no, I am not going to go back and pull them out of the archives. There have also been statements about things like college basketball, running sprints and the like that others will say point to a male, but no, these could not trump the other comments.

That said, I don't really care who she is as I believe she is entitled to her privacy. But CIJ, please stop bragging about not being identified as this tends to throw a gauntlet down for other bloggers.

Good luck to your family in all their endeavors. Congratulations to your daughter's team. And if your hot water heater is old, get that replaced before it decides to blow too. Your finished basement will thank you.

"I see a little Freudian slip of the tongue here with your acknowledging that I WON my credibility"

That was a typo. It should have been OWN not WON. Nothing Freudian about it, just the fact that while I am good at spelling, I am not good at typing/keyboarding. Never took a class in it and I still have to look at the keys often.

"I think it is fair to question and doubt other bloggers and demand proof when necessary."
Which is exactly what I was doing. I asked for the link to the article. I eventually found it. But it would have been quicker for you to either paste the link when you paste the article or go into the history on your computer and find it. I did want to see if it was older and how much older.

"You did not like it when I questioned you and doubted you."
I had no problem with you questioning or doubting me. The problem I had was with the WAY in which you did this.

If you go back and read through this blog, when you questioned me you often used digs or insults. When I questioned you I used facts and statistics or personal experience.
I did say you had a tendency to exaggerate things and blow things out of proportion. (Teens hanging out at my home and the situation with the couple in Florida was exaggerating - their situation did not involve their kids' friends. A pasta party at my home for the CC team turned into kids rampaging through my home - another exaggeration. Accepting a tiny inconspicuous religious tattoo on my 19 year old who put months of thought and discussion into the decision was equated with the girl with the 53 star tattoos who made a spur of the moment decision without discussing it with her family or boyfriend and then lying about the situation.)
I did say that I found certain comments uncalled for.
But there is a distinct difference all along in how I responded to you compared to your responses to me. I did not try to demean you on a regular basis. As I have said before, it is the WAY you go about posting on here that seems to offend people. You do throw in personal attacks and insults regularly. Granted there are others that may do this too, but that doesn't excuse it. And I am sure not going to go back through the archives to find out who started what between you and everyone else on here. I am merely pointing out my experience on here with you and why I think you tend to create such controversy, in the optimistic hope that maybe you will listen and try some different strategies in your blogging, using facts, data and experience without digs, insults, and exaggerations.

By Anonymous ONE on August 13, 2009 12:27 AM

_____________________________________________________

You told us all about your daughter and her issue with marijuana, now we learn you have 2 other sons who haven't accomplished anything significant yet - How proud you must be of them!!! Why in the world you would belittle them like that is beyond me.

While you probably do have kids, the fact that you blogged from Myrtle Beach while this dance contest was going on could just as easily be explained that you are just some guy who wants to go watch dance contests - not that you had anyone actually competing.

========================================================================================================================================

Anonymous One,

1. I did not belittle my boys. You did. I simply said they are young and have not accomplised anything of significance yet in the positive or negative. Nothing in the line of newsworthy coverage. I am very proud of them. My older boy competed for the City Swimming Championships. He performed pretty average in the Championships. For those who do not know, quite a few do not qualify for City and go to the Classic Championships. I am not going to lie and say he was the best swimmer in Naperville. He was simply average amongst the best and I am extremely proud of him. Anything can happen in the future.

He did today come home and state he made his schools soccer team while many others were cut. So I was very proud of him for that accomplishment and I am looking forward to watching all his school games next year. I do like to see all my kids excel and be champs but I know it is a 1 in a million chance. I am happy to have one and I can tell you her siblings are very proud of her. Our family is like a team so we are proud for each other. We love each other. We are not selfish. There is no envy.

2. My university where I got both my undergraduate and graduate degrees was in the Final Four this year and I love college basketball. I think JQP knows what university I attended as I announced it when March Madness started when there were 65 teams competing. My school came in second place. I can't tell you how badly I wanted that National Championship. But in hindsight now that I am over my depression from that loss I feel very lucky we came in second place. And I think having my daughter's team come in first after all the depression I went through, really made up for it. So I am flying high for now.

I did not make the trip for my school even though it was driving distance away in Detroit and I love my school and college basketball unlike professional baseball. If I did not make that Final Four trip with my school in it, I sure am not going to go to a Dance Contest for a school I have no affiliation with....all the way to South Carolina. I went to Myrtle Beach to watch my daughter's team and not to watch a team I have no affiliation with. While I love dance I still like college basbetball more...much more.

I blogged from the Sheraton Hotel where the contest was held. I told WV Mom about my daughter who dances way before I knew her and her team would win a National Championship. I announced her Dance School way before they even entered the 5 day National Competition. It is documented and recorded on this blog site with dates. I would have had to bribe all the judges for this script to take place as it did...lol...

Furthermore, let me give you a detail that only an Xtreme Force Parent would know as it is not publicized anywhere except through an e-mail to the parents. This event is only for parents and their children. It is not open to the public or announced to the public. They had their Annual Banquet this evening at 6pm and said good-bye and honored 21 great kids who will be 20 before January 1 or in some cases turning pro at a younger age. I was planning to attend but could not. My spouse, daughter and 2 sons attended.

Unfortunatley my 24 year old refrigerator broke down today and I had to buy a new one which was delivered before 5pm as promised. A Maytag repairman who was suppose to fix my dryer by 5pm or before was not done till 8pm as he bought the wrong parts with him and had a very rough time installing a new belt on it due to its very old age. I should have just bought a new one.(With all the downtime the snoozing Maytag repairmen get because Maytags are not suppose to break down and rarely do, when they break down the repairmen have no experience...lol) Don't ask me what the Maytag Repairman charged me. And a landscaper who started at 230 pm and was suppose to be done burying some drainage pipes underground also before 5 pm was not done till 730pm. Make a long story short, I had a ticket but could not make it. BTW, my oven and microwave also broke down after 24 years and I am getting new ones early next week. Both my A/C and Heating units broke down last week when it hit 95 degrees but thankfully they were repairable. I guess when it rains it pours sometimes as your home gets older....but thankfully I have no mortgage so I can painfully afford all these replacements.

Anyway, I will be happy if I get 24 years out of my next set of appliances. They were only giving 4 year warranties for 299 dollars. This leads me to believe these new appliances with so many bells and whistles will not last another 24 years....maybe if I am lucky 5 or 6 years. Even the salesman said if you get 12 years you should be happy. The refrigerator was an Electrolux and cost 3 times what my beater GE cost 24 years ago. So it is not just taxes that are killing us. Everything is. I am not biased only against taxes..lol..

Back on subject. You could never know about these Annual Banquets unless you are a parent of a dancer on Xtreme Force. It is not public information or published anywhere. The public is not invited. And the event is over so I have no problem mentioning it after the fact. It is too late for any non-parent to come in as a curiosity seeker...something that I believe is not welcome for this internal Annual Banquet.

Fortunately, I will have one last chance to make the Annual Banquet next year. I will not be repairing anything next year on that day. The food can rot or whatever but I will not miss it. I understood from my spouse that each of the 21 departing dancers made speeches and just about everyone got very emotional and cried. Students really love that dance studio. No one wants to graduate despite all the pain. It is not like graduating from high school where you are truly happy to be leaving. They want to all continue but just like you have to hang your cleats after 4 years on a college football varsity team, you have to hang your ballet shoes as soon as you turn 20....unless you can make it in the pros. Twenty, unforunately, is considered very old in the Dance World.

If 20 is old, I must be ancient. Aren't you guys tired of arguing with an ancient person or an IT. Lighten up everyone.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PS. The only reason I began releasing minor information about my personal life is to help me with my mission of exposing and destroying the credibility of most bloggers on this site. As you can see this is a systematic and organized process. It is working very well. Despite the additional clues I have given, no one even knows if I am a he/she/it. Yes, I am taking a tiny calculated risk as JQP points out, but if worse comes to worse, it is not like I am hiding from the law for some criminal activity. I just like my privacy in real life. I wish you folks would stop wasting your time wondering who I am.....how many times do I have to tell you that I am a NOBODY!

MHB wrote:

Thus he is on record as indicating you behave like Kindergarten Children.

Chris can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't excluding you when he said that.

By anonymous on August 13, 2009 3:09 PM
Oh My Lord, despite the fact that I JUST posted, I must once again.

Sybil writes--

"...... and yet he/she/it has gone on and on here for days blogging about his daughter's illegal behavior, with enough personal details that someone not-so-smart could track her down quite easily.

At least he/she/it has admitted to being stupid.

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Very funny. What is stupid is that you can not differentiate the real world from the blog world.

Many of your fellow bloggers have now come out of the closet with their own stories. Are you also saying they are all stupid?

After 3.5 years you bloggers don't even know if I am a he, a she or an it. I am obviously as Anonymous as can be on an Anonymous Blog Site. I have not even given you a clue as to my gender and the ones who guess are 50% right and 50% wrong.

We all take calculated risks in life. Yes, there is a 1 in a 100,000 chance I will be eventually identified. Also there is a good chance, Chris will choose not to identify me if I am identified. So we have a long shot here. Plus if someone identifies me, do you think I will admit to being that person. I will never confirm it so there will always be great doubt.

And I really don't think the NPD is going to arrest me for the party that took place in my basement 4 years ago.

Does anyone here know what STATUTE of LIMITATIONS means? Hello!

Speaking of stupid....hmmmmm!

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PS. Clever irony again. You allege I have given so many personal details and yet you can not identify even my gender...lol.... Let us stay with the topics as the Moderator has recommended.

Once again, Sybil, you resort to lies. Use your photographic memory to locate one post where I asked for anyone's sympathy. I recall mentioning my health problems when one of your many characters attacked me for having so much time to post. It is funny that one of your lies will prove another of your lies wrong, isn't it? To bad that sharp razor is only slitting your throat...

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 13, 2009 6:44 PM
Anonymous One,

I did provide the name of the author of the survey. All you have to do is read.

_________________________

No you didn't. Look at Former WV Mom's posting. You actually cited an article from 1990 and expect us to believe it is relevant today? The only graves around here is the one you've been in for years. You have been sliced, diced and chopped into pieces by virtually everyone. It's actually getting pretty boring because it's been so easy to discredit you.

The only problem here is that you have been unwilling (or unable) to comprehend how much you have been discredited.

Thank You Former WV Mom for providing actual data backed up by a reputable link and information. Your information makes me feel much better regarding today's youth. Not the gloom and doom spouted by CIJ.

CIJ (see I actually have been using your "name"). It's time to invent a new personality and cause, and start on another topic!

Former WV Mom,
Thanks for your apology. You showed you are classy.

In my post is the source of the article.

I had googled something which I can not remember and this article popped up. I copied and pasted until it started discussing cocaine.

I think it stated cocaine use was 6.1%. Then it went into heroin use. With the 5 recent deaths I got sick of reading it. I just feel that discussing these drugs brings curiosity to people. That is the only reason I cut it off. Plus Chris once told me he did not want full articles posted when I was discussing the Middle East. I do like to respect his rules.

(BTW, I still do not understand how you can bold...could anyone try to explain that in plain English and tell me what a carat means or if it is a key without criticising me. I do not want to upset Chris with too much capitalization.)

After I copied and pasted I closed the window as I had to many open. I could not find it again. I am sure someone will stumble upon it soon and they will see every percentage is exactly as is.

Why would you even be suspicious when your marijuana number was 21.34% higher than mine? Common sense would indicate if I was embellsihing I would have a higher number than yours. Not a very significantly lower number.

Don't you agree?

I believe my explanation was proper. That my survey was probably older than your survey and there has been a shift from alcohol to marijuana. If you have a better explanation please give it.

Next time, I will provide both the link and the copy and paste since this has become an issue of credibility. I am just trying to shorten my blogs instead of lengthen them but I do understand bloggers like detail and fact...and of course proof.

I really don't have any doubt someone will stumble on this article as I have and my credibility will be further strengthened.

Again, thanks for saying your sorry.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PS. You did not like it when I questioned you and doubted you. But if you think about it WV Mom you are doing the same exact thing to me. I think it is fair to question and doubt other bloggers and demand proof when necessary. That is part of debating. I have no objection. You and the many bloggers should also have no objection and stop being hypocrites before you erode your credibility even further. Your coffin of credibility is not lined up for mass burial with everyone else, so have no fear. When you say you are sorry, your credibility is fully restored...100%.

By Former WV Mom on August 13, 2009 11:08 AM
ANd personally, from this standpoint, you have done plenty to dismantle your won credibility too.

========================================================================================================================================

I see a little Freudian slip of the tongue here with your acknowledging that I WON my credibility. I certainly did earn my credibility but, no, it has not been dismantled and never will be since I know I tell the truth and always have and always will.

That does not mean I have never lied in my life. I have and I regretted every time I ever lied. It is stupid to lie and does not pay to lie. If you lie, people will shred you.

That is why my shredder has not stopped working all day. I wish I had a second one handy so I could double up on shredding more bloggers' credibility. My one shredder simply can not keep up with all the lies being told on this one thread alone.

CIJ
I have debated you in a respectful manner. I have been far more respectful of you than you have been of me. Questioning where statistics come from when you cannot find them on the organization who did the study's site is valid. Questioning your treatment of me from the start on here was valid. I have never claimed that you did anything that you did not do. But the minute I question something you post because I would like to see the article and the context of it, or overlook one piece of info because I was exhausted from a long day and wanted to go to bed, I am called a kindergartener and someone who has no integrity.

As you can see, I finally found your original information, something I would not have had to take the time to do if you had just posted the link. I also found quite a bit more info that people are free to look at. I included the links. Again the trend for the last 10 years has been a decrease in alcohol and drug use.

As someone who is a trained librarian, I will stress that you should always cite your sources when researching, whether online or in the library. You should also make sure it is the most recent information.

I will say that I did, finally, after an hour of a variety of search methods and quite a bit of digging (that's the former librarian in me), find the study posted by CIJ. It is from 1990. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00015573.htm
The study itself is old enough that it can no longer be found in the YRBSS portion of the CDC website. It can only be found in an archived section of the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

In the last ten years there has been a pretty decent sized and vocal movement to legalize marijuana. It does make sense that marijuana use might go up over that time since the attitude toward it overall has lightened up. However, based on this link, it is decreasing again. It went up from 1991-1999 and then has decreased since then. Other drugs on the survey follow the same pattern.
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/yrbs/pdf/yrbs07_us_drug_use_trend.pdf

Additional information can be found at the links at http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/yrbs/index.htm
You will need Adobe Reader to look at the info.

And I still wish CIJ would just post the links to his/her stats when posting them. Reading them in the full context, including when they were created, is useful. It will also help with credibility. Statistics out of context don;t mean that much, especially if you have ever read the book How to Lie With Statistics. If you can take the time to copy and paste the article or information, copy and paste the link at the same time, like I have for every stat I have posted on this blog. It takes a matter of seconds.

While we are at it, I spent a lovely day sitting behind home plate with my husband at the Cubs game, despite the loss. The weather was beautiful, the hot dogs were tasty, and the company was great. I really do feel it was a much better use of my time than the last hour has been.

Ken,
In the Napergate Days you would always come on and tell us you were in a wheel chair. You were always seeking attention and sympathy.

Your credibility has been so bad, I now question if you were ever in a wheel chair.

Why do you need sympathy from anonymous bloggers?

Do you not have family and friends who can give you some love and attention outside this blog network?

Where is your support group in the time of need?

The razor is sharp and slices both ways. I suggest you get out of Kindergarten and mature a little.

In this current debate no one has been able to shake my credibility. You all felt I needed several monikers to bolster my arguments. No, I get my points across with truth, facts and documentation. I do some research like going to the libraries, visiting sites of discussion, and googling when necessary.

I used multi handles because I enjoyed being a "NO ONE" and pushing for the causes I believe in. Because I did not have an EGO. Because I was not in love with my MONIKER. I got tired of my handles and still do and like to trash them as often as possible.

You folks are apparently here to stroke your egos instead of promoting a cause you dearly believe in. Why don't you all try to get over yourselves? It is really about time.

By GJC on August 13, 2009 4:26 PM
The Sybil says: As I said I plan on lining your coffins of credibility side by side and having a mass burial soon. I really did not think this job would be so easy.

Could you explain to us why you feel you have to bury anyone who disagrees with you? Truly, it's a question that I've thought about a few times, and I would honestly like to know what the answer is.

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I am not trying to bury anyone who disagrees with me or wants to debate me. After all that is why I am here. I enjoy debating and use it as a learning process.

What I am trying to bury is the credibility, integrity and reputations of those who accuse me or imply that I am lying...or that I distort...or that I embellish....or that I exaggerate.

This is what this is about. I am trying to debate and get attacked almost instantly in a very personal way. Either the Moderator chooses the subject or I choose a subject on the Open Topic Thread that interests me.

From there almost every person on here starts acting like a Kindergarten Kid who is jealous for whatever reason. Everyone starts whining. Everyone thinks his toy plane has been hijacked. Some think their space crafts have been hijacked. Some think their choo-choo trains have been derailed. Some think the sky is falling.

The only person who is maintaining any integrity on this thread is the Moderator. Whether he agrees with me or disagrees with me he does not attack me personally. Whether he agrees with me or disagrees with me he does not call me names. Whether he likes me or dislikes me he does not disrespect me. He address me as CIJ as I want to be addressed.

I think he would like to see you folks debate me in a respectful manner. He has told you good folks that these personal attacks are a waste of time. You have not listened. Thus he is on record as indicating you behave like Kindergarten Children. He has yet to withdraw or apologize for his comment despite noticing it is 100 against 1.

Personally, I feel he sees the slippery slope you guys are all on and does not want to fall hard as you bloggers certainly will. He may want to attend the mass funeral I am having as an observer but he sure does not want to be one of the numerous whom will be buried.

The Moderator has called me intelligent. I would like to reciprocate and say that he not only is intelligent but brilliant and has foresight to see how this is all going to end.

I am on record as stating this exchange is going to have a Napergate Style Ending....meaning all you folks are going to be eating a lot of roasted crow. I stand by my comment and today you already ate a lot of crow. The night is very long yet. Please continue taking your best shots if you do not want to debate in a genuine and civilized manner. But be ready to suffer the consequences of your diarrhea mouths that were never soaped by your Mommies when you were growing up.

Wow, so sorry, I didn't look specifically at each number, I honestly did not. I compared the first few because I was in a bit of a hurry, but overall the rest of the stats were lower than what you posted. My point was that I could not duplicate your stats anywhere I looked online.

It still makes no sense that you can't give a link to the article you found. If you got it in a Google search, then you would have clicked a link to that article. Post that link. It's not that hard. It needs to be the link to the article, not necessarily the official study. That will then give us all the context of the study you had compared to mine as to when it took place and the parameters of it. By not being willing to post the link, it does make me think that you fudged a few numbers.
It also makes no sense that you can't link to the studies on the official site. They are merely .pdf files. Everyone should have the most recent and updated Adobe .pdf reader. And if you don't, that is one thing that is entirely safe to download.

And again, all of those stats don't compare to the ones that are locally done in the link I have included twice so far on this blog.
http://www.thepowerofchoice.info/
Results for Alcohol
-71% have not consumed alcohol in the past 30 days
-65% prefer to date someone who does not drink
-63% prefer to hang out with people who do not drink
-63% prefer parties where people aren't drinking alcohol
-80% think their parents find alcohol use by teenagers to be "not acceptable."
Results for Other Drugs
-77% never smoke marijuana
-96% never use crack cocaine
-97% never use heroin
-95% never use club drugs
-92% never use prescription drugs for non-medical reasons
-92% never use over-the-counter drugs for non-medical reasons

In that study, the students fill out a survey and place it in an envelope. I was working at WV at the time one of these was administered. There is no identification on the survey. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to fudge their answers since the survey cannot be traced back.

The laugh lines from Sybil continue:

"You folks should try reading what you write before you hit the "Submit" button. Remember I have been on here for 3.5 years and have pretty close to a photographic memory."

You should follow your own advice, Sybil, and also try using that supposed photographic memory of yours. It is quit obvious from all the backtracking and editing of your own statement to fit your next set of inane statements that you have yet to use it.

Anonymous One,

I did provide the name of the author of the survey. All you have to do is read.

========================================================================================================================================

The national school-based Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) is a component of the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, which periodically measures the prevalence of priority health-risk behaviors among youth through comparable national, state, and local surveys (3). A three-stage sample design was used to obtain a representative sample of 11,631 students in grades 9-12 in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.

========================================================================================================================================

It is the same exact survey as the one WV Mom provided. Apparently, it is a different year and I explained the difference.

Mine could have been the year 2003 or 2005 and hers was the year 2007. The difference is alcohol use decreased while marijuana use increased in the last few years.

If you need further research don't be lazy and do you own. You have the link.

WV Mom provided the link....it should all be there exactly as I copied and pasted it.

Again, google did not send me to the site but a specific article. I believe what I posted was 100% accurate for whatever year it was.

By anonymous on August 13, 2009 2:56 PM

We drank, we smoked, we ate Cheetos in the basement.
Kids are kids.

Trying to cajole a teenager with cross-border drug traffic is just so very unbelievable. Motrin does wonders for aches and pains caused by physical stress, scoliosis or not. I really don't want to hear further about the fact that it was a marijuana derivative that was being sought, just another spin cycle from Sybil. We all know he/she/it stated that they thought about heading to CA or MI for LEGAL MARIJUANA for pain. Seriously insane.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1. You admitted that you are a criminal who broke the law when you were under 21. What credibility does a former criminal have....zero... zilch? Why are you worried about my daughter when you had 2 brothers that were druggies at her age and older. At least my daughter quit and is respecting the law while trying to find solutions for her pain.

2. Now that this debate has been widened beyond my daughter, phrases like "kids will be kids" are popping up. Before it was widened everyone was calling my daughter a "DRUGGIE." Clever irony is certainly a way to describe this even though it is a moniker for someone...sorry.

3. My daughter on the way to the chiropractic office yesterday told me she is willing to consult with doctors about the legal drug Marinol and see if that can help her. We will be doing that soon.

4. She also asked me if she could transfer to the University of Michigan or Michigan State if Marinol did not work. That is because medical marijuana is legal in Michigan as well as California. This is something we will consider when her dancing careers ends next July. She loves dancing, we love watching her and her teammates dance, and we would like to see her win her 4th National Team Championship with Xtreme Force and end her career on a high note.

5. I asked that we all try to be civil and I am being called stupid and seriously insane by you and others. And I am accused of being the attacker...lol...

6. It is you who is seriously insane and utterly stupid to think my daughter wants to be involved with cross border traffic because she wants to go to UM or MSU where she can obtain and use marijuana legally for medicinal purposes if all else fails. The state legalized it for that purpose so she is obviously not the only one who believes it helps with pain. It was the second state and not first to legalise medical marijuana and I believe many others will follow in the next few years.

7. Anyway your credibility with this cross trafficing needs to be buried in my mass grave with all the other stooges on here. As I told you folks bring a 1000 and I will take each and everyone of you down. The Napergate Man took down a 100,000 after a 10 year legal battle. As someone who considers himself/herself a pupil of his teachings, I can easily take down a 1000 and it has been happening in a systematic way...hour by hour. His writings taught me to be patient and persistent if you believe in your causes. I believe in all my causes and I am determined to be both patient and persistent. My current cause is to destroy the credibility of my bashers one by one until they have none left.

Since you guys don't want peace and want to be whining Kindergarten Children, I suggest you at least take time-outs to get a hold of your temper tantrums and uncalled for language. May God help each and every one of you.

You folks should try reading what you write before you hit the "Submit" button. Remember I have been on here for 3.5 years and have pretty close to a photographic memory. So don't take any chances with contradicting yourselves. I don't need to research like JQP. My memory is in very high gear and as solid as can be.

cij wrote: And while we are at it where is Anonymous One's apology who doubted my rough estimates of 70-90% that both of us proved with our gov't surveys
_____________________________

You do have a tendancy to try to rewrite history don't you? First you claimed that 70% of Naperville's high school kids were losers, then you went on to say that "70-90% of high schoolers use drugs and alcohol."

I responded to you with the following:
"I think that many would be surprised by your claim that 70-90% of high school students drink alcohol and/or smoke marijuana. If true, it is a sad commentary on the state of our students."

You proceeded to google something which you cut and pasted a few times, but can't seem to tell us who wrote and published this "study". You now have taken this unverifiable study and claim to be needing apologies? Let's see the actual study source and put it up for some peer review. (don't misunderstand CIJ, I'm simply asking for the author of the study, not claiming anything other than wanting to subject it to review.)

You also aren't the only one who can find studies: I have a U.S. Department of Justice study that seems to make your study slightly suspect! http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/du.htm#use

First of all, the study the DOJ performed asked high school students if they used alcohol in the previous 30 days: 44.4% responded yes. Ken discredited your comments and now I am as well. WV Mom questioned the methodology of your study along with how you defined your "70-90% Abuse of drugs and alcohol" statement.

The DOJ study then discusses marijuana (which had the highest percentage of illegal drug use):
"The increase in the use of marijuana has been especially pronounced. Between 1992 and 2006 past-month use of marijuana increased from:"

12% to 18% among high school seniors.
8% to 14% among 10th graders.
4% to 7% among 8th graders.

in your latest post you just claimed that your 70-90% comment was that high school students use drugs and alcohol repeatedly - (something the Department of Justice claims is not the case.)

You claim 70-90% use repeatedly, and the government states 44.4% "tried" alcohol in the past month and 18% tried marijuana. Let's see....who to believe?

So while 100% of high school students in your basement may use alcohol and drugs, thankfully this number is much smaller in our community.

Sybil, since I never claimed you used the word serious, as you lied and claimed I did, so I have no problem saying that once again, you are a liar.

As for breaking the law, if I get caught, I will pay the price, just as the Napergate man had to pay the price for his lawbreaking daughter, and you would have to pay for your druggie offspring.

If anything, this gives me more credibility since I am not telling lies like you do. I allow my children access to a legal product that was available to 18 year olds until meddling groups like MADD forced politicians into making laws to placate them. I, however, don't let my kids use illegal drugs and excuse them as you did.

Either way, I really don't care what a schizophrenic person like you, Sybil, thinks about what I let my kids do, as you have already shown you have zero parenting skills.

The Sybil says: As I said I plan on lining your coffins of credibility side by side and having a mass burial soon. I really did not think this job would be so easy.

Could you explain to us why you feel you have to bury anyone who disagrees with you? Truly, it's a question that I've thought about a few times, and I would honestly like to know what the answer is.

Anonymous One,

You are trying to rewrite history to save your credibility. Below is exactly what you said and my response. This is becoming way to easy as I swap you guys one after another likes flies. I have provided the supported proof and you would be eating crow now if I had not swapped you and laid you by your colleagues for a mass credibility burial

****************************************************************************************************************************************

By Anonymous ONE on August 10, 2009 10:21 PM
Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 10, 2009

__________________________________

I think that many would be surprised by your claim that 70-90% of high school students drink alcohol and/or smoke marijuana. If true, it is a sad commentary on the state of our students. Thankfully, it is attributed to you, which we have come to understand won't have any supported proof other than your speculation. Perhaps you have a friend who is a policeman that you "coincidently" bumped into? He let you in on this "little secret" about Naperville's kids being drug and alcohol users?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is to bury your credibility and line you up in the mass grave for burial with all the other stooges. I told you one by one I am taking each and everyone of you down. And you are making it way way to easy for ME.

****************************************************************************************************************************************

I was simply stating that if the majority of bloggers consider my daughter a "loser and druggie" for occasionally drinking and taking marijuana in the past for relieving excrutiating pain from dancing due to Scoliois, then it would be fair to probably lump the 92.4% Naperville high school kids that the US Govt says exhibit the same exact behavior, with my 19 year old daughter. Sorry, I got you all on the defensive, but you must show some logic and reason when debating. Otherwise, line up at the mass grave for "credibility burial." I may need to buy a larger plot as the plot I bought appears way too small.

It is nice to see many of you finally coming out of the closet and admitting your children are also imperfect after I revealed this astonishing US Govt. Survey. I knew something would eventually bring you out of hiding. However, I was not sure what!

By Ken on August 13, 2009 11:31 AM

You are obviously saying that you think that 92.4% have a serious problem. I will admit you never used serious; you called them abusers(8/12/09@1:53pm "Based on the fact that the USA stated 82.4% of these 9th graders abuse alchohol ").

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Thanks for admitting I never used the word "serious."

Alcohol consumption by anyone under 21 is illegal. If a minor is using alcohol he is abusing not only alcohol but the law.

I guess you have admitted to all the bloggers that you are a LAW BREAKER in a prior post. So I don't know what credibility you have left.

Weren't you one of the many bloggers who had no mercy for the Napergate Man's daughter and even the Napergate Man when she did not have the proper change and went through a toll(s)?

You and many others lined up and stated that the Napergate Man was a LAWBREAKER since he should have known or is responsible since the vehicle in his name.

Now you have admitted to us that you KNOWINGLY broke the law and allow your kids to even drink alcohol in your own home. Wow, Ken! Is that all you let them do, Ken? Do you let them also experiment with marijuana and cocaine? Where do you draw the line since you have no respect for the laws of our city and state and apparently creating you own.

As I said I plan on lining your coffins of credibility side by side and having a mass burial soon. I really did not think this job would be so easy.

cij, don't forget what prompted this discussion. You've turned it into alcohol and drug use, but your original claim was that 70% of high school students in Naperville high schools are losers. You are on record as writing it, do you stand behind your statement that 70% of the kids are losers?

To refresh the statement, and my original question to you here it is:

.
.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 9, 2009 3:17 PM
My daughter was hanging around with the 70% losers who attend the Naperville High Schools and populate Naperville Neighborhoods. Xtreme Dance kept her very busy and away from these losers.

______________________

(My response to this was):

Let's just say that I strongly disagree with your characterization that 70% of Naperville high school students are losers.

Oh My Lord, despite the fact that I JUST posted, I must once again.

Sybil writes--

"And how many people would be fearful to admit they tried it, if there was any chance they could be tracked down from this survey and turned into their parents, schools or authorities. I suspect there would be a few in this category. A smart person would never admit he did anythig illegal even to a survey. If I ever did anything illegal, I certainly would not admit it to anyone including a survey which I would not trust."

His/her/it's own words, not from any website link or facts and figures.

Am I the only one that thinks he/she/it is totally in need of a higher concentration of oxygen? Sybil says that "a smart person would never admit he did anything illegal...If I ever did anything illegal, I certainly would not admit it ..." and yet he/she/it has gone on and on here for days blogging about his daughter's illegal behavior, with enough personal details that someone not-so-smart could track her down quite easily.

At least he/she/it has admitted to being stupid.

Are we talking about teen alcohol and drug use getting worse than in the past?

C'mon kids...as a child of the Seventies, I assure you that things may cycle a bit, but it's always been there and will always be there. Let me think...how did Coca Cola get it's name back in the day (1885, yes, we were substance abusers back then)?

We drank, we smoked, we ate Cheetos in the basement. We had it so much easier than kids do today, as far as law enforcement goes. Heavens, in Barrington the cops used to drive us home! Keggers in college at IL Wesleyan (yes, private Christian University), drinking age 19, not much DUI. I'm not saying this was a good thing, it just was. Cycles, we are in a law enforcement high right now.

Kids are kids. I highly doubt that 92 whatever percent of Naperville's kids have tried both marijuana AND alchohol. A large percentage? Sure, tried it. A much smaller percentage use on a daily basis, I'm sure. That's the way it's always been and always will be. The human condition is that some of us have addictive/escapist personalities to a higher extent than others. Some of us are motivated by what we need to function freely in society such as our jobs, sports...what have you and can refrain quite easily from messing that up with a record/failed drug tests. Some of us will always struggle with this.

None of this is new. DARE did not make us users. Sybil blogs that DARE introduces children to addictive behavior and is a bad thing and then within a few days and a hundred thousand words later blogs that teenagers need more education about the consequences of addictive behavior. And that's why we cringe at every one of Sybil's posts, his/her/it's Jekyl and Hyde style of writing to meet his/her/it's momentary needs.

I drank beer, never smoked weed. My brothers did both. We are all successful and accomplished adults that are not addicted to anything and none of us smoke weed as adults. I teach my children to be safe with themselves and others that may cross their paths badly if they are not safe with their behavior. I teach my children that living free and being able to blow and pee upon request without worries is the best way to keep up what they have worked so hard to achieve in their young adult lives. Living within the current cycle so we can live the way we want, without records and with a valid driver's license that is not abused and is never used to cause harm due to addictive behavior.

Certainly speaking to my children about the possibility of obtaining legal marijuana has never been a part of our conversation, whether I was a child of the Seventies or not. Perhaps marijuana will be legal some day, that is neither here nor there as it isn't now. Trying to cajole a teenager with cross-border drug traffic is just so very unbelievable. Motrin does wonders for aches and pains caused by physical stress, scoliosis or not. I really don't want to hear further about the fact that it was a marijuana derivative that was being sought, just another spin cycle from Sybil. We all know he/she/it stated that they thought about heading to CA or MI for LEGAL MARIJUANA for pain. Seriously insane.

By Anonymous on August 13, 2009 11:19 AM
CIJ

There is a big difference between 92.4% of kids will try alcohol or marijuana at least once prior to graduating high school, and stating that 92.4% of the kids use alcohol or marijuana.

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Maybe and maybe not.

If 1% of the 92.4% tried it only once, while 91.4% tried it repeatedly the difference may be be very insignificant. But keep in mind the survey said 50.1% drink monthly or at least in the last 30 days. This should indicate those who just tried it once are in the extreme minority. And how many people would be fearful to admit they tried it, if there was any chance they could be tracked down from this survey and turned into their parents, schools or authorities. I suspect there would be a few in this category. A smart person would never admit he did anythig illegal even to a survey. If I ever did anything illegal, I certainly would not admit it to anyone including a survey which I would not trust. So the numbers may be a bit worse as there may be a few smart cookeis amongst these high schools students.

I provided and posted the survey, verbatim twice, so there would be no misundertanding here. Sometimes people can interpret the same numbers differently. Humans are not robots except maybe on this blog site where every one agrees with each other and everyone disagrees with ME...lol...

I, in no way, attempted tried to mislead anyone. That should be crystal clear.

Former WV Mom,
When I did the google search I simply got the article. I did not get the official site. When I went to your official site, it asked me to download some program so that it can open up certain links. Every time I seem to download a program my computer seems to act up and become slower. So I am not taking any chances and adding any programs just because I need them once.

I think the fact that your survey shows a 21.34% greater use in marijuana than mine should be sufficient to you to believe I was in no way exaggerating or tampering with the evidence.

Regarding your statement, ("So since these numbers are lower than what was reported above, I would like to see a link for the source of the information previously reported. Where did that information come from?")

You were not talking about alcohol specifically. You were talking about my numbers in totality. That was obvious from your own words You were insinuating that maybe the numbers I posted were not accurate. One set of numbers pertaining to drug usage was even SIGNIFICANTLY lower than your number.

You were wrong. I have apologized to you in the past when I was wrong. You need to also apologize when you are wrong. We will see if you apply the same standards to yourself as you demand of others.

Once I apologize to you twice, you can not to continue to dig up old history when I was mistaken in the belief that 60 kids could come to your home that were alcohol and drug free and/or have no temptation to drink. I just had a compeletly different experience so I was a little shocked that there could be such a good group of kids in town based on the statitics we are both revealing. I was in disbelief based on my personal experiences. I am no longer in disbelief. The government survey said that 7.6% of kids in high schools never drink so what you said becomes very possible. The other 92.4% of high school seniors are lawbreakers no different than my daughter. They are irresponsible no different than my daughter. One can almost say my daughter is "NORMAL" since she is doing what the majority does...unfortunately. If my daughter is a "druggie" than 92.4% of Naperville high school kids are "druggies." About 98-99% of those under 21 who consume alcohol illegally are also both lawbreakers and "druggies." Let us not show double standards when speaking of my daughter. Let us use one standard for all kids.

You were not bashing me before the posse revealed me. If you may have not been happy with the demeanor of the debate which is understandable, you should have said something at the time. You were always being polite and pleasant. You never cussed me out. But as soon as the bloggers said I was a bad guy you fell for blog pressure and started acting like a Kindergarten Child with your personal attacks despite the fact I only HEAPED PRAISE ON YOU. You wanted to be with the majority. You want to be accepted by the majority. You became like the majority even nitpicking wrongfully at a govt. survey I copied and posted verbatim that was similar to yours. It simply showed there was a shift with teenagers from lower alcohol use to greater marijuana use. Does that really surprise you, WV Mom? It does not surprise me. My personal observation is that there has also been a shift from alchohol use to additional cocaine and heroin use based on all the deaths I am uncovering recently.

If you watch the news as I do, this shift has been known for a while. Our respective surveys from different years simply confirmed it.

I will be seeing if you apologize when you are wrong as I do, WV Mom. And while we are at it where is Anonymous One's apology who doubted my rough estimates of 70-90% that both of us proved with our gov't surveys. Probably in hiding and conspiring with his stooge buddies what the next course of action will be since this attack on my credibilty failed miserably.

I you were being selected for a jury, you would never make it because you allow others to influence you and prejudice you quite easily. That is why society is very careful in how they select jurists. If 12 members of this blog site were selected for a jury, in a case of which I was wrongfully accused of murder, all 12 would convict me beyond a reasonable doubt due to their EXTREME PREJUDICE even if I was 100% innocent. That I am certain of. Just as happened in the Nicarico Trials over and over again.

Therefore, I am not at all surprised that the Moderator refers to you all as Kindergarten Children. He is absolutely and 100% right. And he has never stated on record that he regrets making that statement. Apparently, he does not. In my opinion he detected your immaturity while detecting my maturity and calling me "intelligent."

Now if you stop the personal attacks, I bet the Moderator will promote you all to First Grade. I would concur with him if that happened.

Sybil, you do realize that all your past posts are readable, don't you? So when you post something like this on 8/13/09 at 5:32am:

"And as far as that word "serious" in Ken's post that is an exaggeration added by Ken. I never used that term."

Everyone can then scroll back to where you made this statement on 8/12/09 at 9:26pm:

1. I never said 82.6% teenagers have serious A or D problems. I quoted the govt. and said that is the per centage for 9th graders ONLY who drink or do drugs. For all high school kids it is 92.4%."

You are obviously saying that you think that 92.4% have a serious problem. I will admit you never used serious; you called them abusers(8/12/09@1:53pm "Based on the fact that the USA stated 82.4% of these 9th graders abuse alchohol ").

But since I never indicated that "serious" was a direct quote, all of this is moot, except for the fact that you are trying to backtrack once again.

CIJ

There is a big difference between 92.4% of kids will try alcohol or marijuana at least once prior to graduating high school, and stating that 92.4% of the kids use alcohol or marijuana.

"As I advised you, WV Mom don't fall for the blog pressure brought on by the bashing posse. They are dismantling their credibility with each post. I hope you are noticing."

This has nothing to do with blog pressure. My frustration with you happened long before I knew who you were. You are the one who was belittling me every chance you had. (Let's see according to you I am naive, hold magical powers, have kids rampaging through my home, have kids who came from a mold, I could go on and on with the various ways you did this.) For the most part I rose above it and somehow became your favorite blogger, an "honor" I do not want in the least. You seem to feel that you are the innocent one in everything that happens on these blogs. Yet you were the one who insulted or belittled me on this blog. You need to realize that you have a huge part in the backlash towards you on these blogs. Until you being to change your style of blogging, it will continue. ANd personally, from this standpoint, you have done plenty to dismantle your won credibility too.

Depending on the criteria used, the percentage of kids who've had alcohol at least once in their lives could be a meaningless statistic. Does sacramental wine count? If you give your 8 year-old a single sip of your beer or wine because they're curious to know what it tastes like, does that count? A more relevant statistic would be the percentage of kids who'd consumed, say, one full alcoholic beverage within the previous year.

-JQP

I was just wondering if it was an older study since I could not duplicate the same information anywhere online. I was not looking specifically at marijuana, I was looking at the alcohol issue specifically.

I do think we need to consider the fact that there may be kids who "try it once" but not again for a variety of reason. Trying something once does not constitute a huge problem. There is a significant difference in the stats when they add the "past 30 days" comment.

Personally I don't know why you could not open the link. It's working perfectly, even if I go to a different computer here.

And I would still like to see where this information was found so I can see the context and whether it was an older study, more limited in scope, a specific cross section or whatever. You should be able to check your computer history or redo the search and then post the link.

When Anonymous One challenged my personal estimate based on observation of 70-90% of the teenagers in town drink alcohol or smoke dope, I did a search on google and this is the first article that popped up. Below is the copy and paste job again. I did not save the link as I did not believe any one would challenge a copy and paste job since everyone knows my writing style by now.

It appears what WV Mom found is marijuana use is much worse than my post stated. Her post states 38.1% of students have used marijuana 1 or more times. The survey I posted states only 31.4% of students had used marijuana one or more times. Her survey shows only 75% having one drink at least once. My survey shows 88.1% have consumed alcohol at least once in their lfetime.

My computer would not open any of these sites for some reason, but I suspect mine could have been an earlier survey. If this is the case what we are seeing is less alcohol use and more marijuana use. While both are bad in my opinion the switch from alcohol in my survey to more marijuana in WV Mom's survey is a shift to the worse.

I am not doubting your post WV Mom which indicates a 21.34% increase in usage of marijuana compared to what I posted. It indicates a 14.87% decrease in alcohol usage.

Regarding your statement, ("So since these numbers are lower than what was reported above, I would like to see a link for the source of the information previously reported. Where did that information come from?") it is inaccurate.

I believe we both have the same source or survey but different time periods. I could not open the links you provided but I suspect there has been a movement in the last few years from less drinking to more marijuana use.

So while you may suspect my numbers are exaggerated or fabricated, they are not. They are actual numbers. You numbers are actually worse than mine since your survey shows a 21.34% increase in marijuana use while only a 14.87 decrease in alcohol use as compared to mine. Either set of numbers proves Anonymous One does not know what he is talking about when he doubts 70% in Naperville drink and/or dope.

When comparing surveys you seemed not to notice that your survey was much worse than mine as far as illegal marijuana use. Apparently, you wrongfully thought my numbers for marijuana use were too high. Actually they were too low, Former WV Mom.

And as far as that word "serious" in Ken's post that is an exaggeration added by Ken. I never used that term. Below is the verbatim report again I got from the same source as you. I suspect your report is more recent than mine since CNN and FOX NEWS have been reporting decreased alcohol use and subtantially increased marijuana use among teenagers in recent use. One thing for sure there was no exaggeration by me. I only gave the exact numbers which I am posting below a second time since there has been an attempt to twist and spin these numbers repeatedly As I advised you, WV Mom don't fall for the blog pressure brought on by the bashing posse. They are dismantling their credibility with each post. I hope you are noticing. Trust me, Moderator Chris did not exaggerate when he called them KG children. I would not get near them even with a 10 foot pole. They have no credibility and are self destructing their reputations. They never fail to miss an opportunity.

############################################################################################################################################################################

The national school-based Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) is a component of the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, which periodically measures the prevalence of priority health-risk behaviors among youth through comparable national, state, and local surveys (3). A three-stage sample design was used to obtain a representative sample of 11,631 students in grades 9-12 in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. Students were asked whether they had used alcohol, marijuana, and any form of cocaine during their lifetime and during the 30 days preceding the survey. Students also were asked whether they had had five or more drinks of alcohol on one occasion during the 30 days preceding the survey and how old they were when they first consumed alcohol or used marijuana or cocaine.

Of all students in grades 9-12, 88.1% had consumed alcohol in their lifetime, and 58.6% had consumed alcohol at least once during the 30 days preceding the survey (Table 1). Male students (62.2%) were significantly more likely than female students (55.0%) to have consumed alcohol during the 30 days preceding the survey. Students in grade 12 were significantly more likely to have had a drink of alcohol in their lifetime (92.4%) and to have had a drink of alcohol during the 30 days preceding the survey (65.6%) than were students in grade 9 (82.6% and 50.1%, respectively).

More than one third (36.9%) of all students had consumed five or more drinks of alcohol on at least one occasion during the 30 days preceding the survey (which was the survey definition for episodic heavy drinking) (Table 1). Male students (43.5%) were significantly more likely than female students (30.4%) to report heavy drinking on one or more recent occasions. The proportion of students who drank heavily on at least one occasion increased significantly by grade of students from 9th (27.7%) and 10th (35.7%) to 12th grade (44.0%).

Almost one third (31.4%) of all students had used marijuana at least once, and 13.9% had used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (Table 1). Male students were significantly more likely to have used marijuana in their lifetime (35.9%) and to have used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (16.9%) than were female students (27.0% and 11.1%, respectively). Students in grade 12 were significantly more likely to have used marijuana in their lifetime (42.2%) and to have used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (18.5%) than were students in grade 9 (20.6% and 9.5%, respectively).

cij wrote:
Here is what appears to be the problem. Everyone on this blog site except me is a PERFECT PARENT. Their kids do not drink or smoke dope. I am the only IMPERFECT PARENT with an IMPERFECT CHILD in the City of Naperville.
..........
I also have 2 sons that I am very proud of even though they have not accomplished anything significant yet in the positive or negative.
_____________________________________________________

No cij, you are not the only imperfect parent, but you ARE the only one who pretended to be an anonymous parent and went on a local blog site to ask for advice about what to do with a problem child.

And for someone warned about giving personal information you just can't seem to stop yourself. You told us all about your daughter and her issue with marijuana, now we learn you have 2 other sons who haven't accomplished anything significant yet - How proud you must be of them!!! Why in the world you would belittle them like that is beyond me.

While you probably do have kids, the fact that you blogged from Myrtle Beach while this dance contest was going on could just as easily be explained that you are just some guy who wants to go watch dance contests - not that you had anyone actually competing.

So now you are claiming that 92.4% of all high school kids have a serious drug or alcohol problem? Yet you still think you have any semblance of credibility left, Sybil?

As I stated before, I am far from a perfect parent, and my kids are far from perfect. It would not surprise me if they fall into the large percentage of kids who have tried> drugs or alcohol, but kids will be kids. I have not had any of my kids ask me to let them smuggle in illegal drugs from a state that permits medical use of marijuana, so I think that while my kids are not perfect, they are doing better than your daughter.

I also have a different view on drinking before 21. In my mind, if a kid can vote and die for this country at 18, they can drink too. My kids know that once they are 18, they can have a drink or two and not have to hide it from me. In fact they can get drunk if they want, as long as they don't drive. Never had a problem with that with my kids either.

Last but not least, anyone who completely trusts their kids is being kind of foolish. Like I said, kids will be kids...

Looking at the CDC website, at the results there for the national Youth Risk Behavior Survey, I am coming across different stats than are stated above in posts above.
http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/yrbs/index.htm

Alcohol and Other Drug Use (2007 YRBSS results)
75.0% of students had had at least one drink of alcohol on at least 1 day during their life and 44.7% of students had had at least one drink of alcohol on at least 1 day during the 30 days before the survey.
23.8% of students had drunk alcohol (other than a few sips) for the first time before age 13 years.
26.0% of students had had five or more drinks of alcohol in a row (i.e., within a couple of hours) on at least 1 day during the 30 days before the survey.
38.1% of students had used marijuana one or more times during their life.
19.7% of students had used marijuana one or more times during the 30 days before the survey.
8.3% of students had tried marijuana for the first time before age 13 years.

So since these numbers are lower than what was reported above, I would like to see a link for the source of the information previously reported. Where did that information come from?

By John Q. Publlic on August 12, 2009 6:04 PM

I don't think most people here would mind having a sober discussion about drug use in Naperville; but the keyword here is sober. I suspect that there are very few people who want to begin the discussion with the assumption that there is a government conspiracy going on, which is why your heroin in Naperville "debate" is on life support. And this is hardly the only example of your assuming with little or no evidence that a problem is much bigger than it is.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

JQP,

There is no conspiracy. I know the name of the heroin OD victim of July 24. My friends on the south side have the name of the drug suicide victim of the same day. I could get his name by shooting an e-mail or making a phone call. My A/C guy told me his step daughters boy friends twin sister OD'd on heroin on July 31. I could easily call him and get her name. This case was not in Naperville but right ouside of its borders. The Sun published the name of the March 7 victim. There was a fifth victim that I am blanking out on as I am in a rush to get to the health club.

If Moderator Chris promises publicly never to release these names, I can send them to him in an "Off the Reord" blog and he can verify their situations.

I believe I made this offer regarding the July 24 victims but he did not respond. My source on those were employees of Edward Hospital. I confirmed both but only wrote down the name of one as I was driving when I got the name of the other. The names did not come from Edward's.

Really there is no conspiracy other than possibly local government not wanting this kind of publicity for its town. I totally understand.

But in the meantime more and more teenagers are dying because they apparently do not know heroin can kill. Teenagers just don't read newspapers or care about the news. They think they are INVINCIBLE!
They need to know and be educated.

Ken,

1. I never said 82.6% teenagers have serious A or D problems. I quoted the govt. and said that is the per centage for 9th graders ONLY who drink or do drugs. For all high school kids it is 92.4%.

2. The Dance Studio estimate of one half of one per cent is based on the belief of the bloggers that my daughter is the only former "imperfect" dancer at the studio. I hope they are right.

3. If your kids have a key to the house or access to a code they can have a party in the time you can be away doing a lenghty chore. Or one or both parents are working. Do you all hire baby sitters for your 15 year olders when you leave the home?

4. With kids 15 years of age, I did not suspect this could happen. I was wrong. I did not know kids this young drink and dope up. My daughter had just turned 15. It was the first time I had such an encounter. I was not ready for it. And I was clueless that 15 year olders could pull something of this magnitude. It all happened in less than a half an hour while I was watching TV in a nicely insulated home. My only tip was the marijuana aroma coming up the vents. My spouse was at work. It ended in 10 seconds.

5. I am glad you and everyone else on this blog site are perfect parents. At least my life is interesting and has challenges the way God meant it to be. Why bother seeking Heaven if life is so perfect for you guys on Earth? Why bother dying? Why would you ever die if you have no stress in your life or lives....if your lives are so perfect!!!

6. I am beginning to think people like to debate me because they know I am a real person who tells the truth and who has a decent amount of self esteem to admit a few problems in his/her life.

7. You guys can all continue living in fantasy land where everything is perfect. Where you have no problems. Where the 92.4% in high school who drink are not your kids. Where the 98-99% of kids who drink before 21 are not your kids.

Moderator Chris, since I am getting nowhere with the bloggers and a very large sample of your bloggers claim kids that drink are not their kids, could you please express your opinion whose parents these teenagers belong to? Since you have no children, I know they are not your kids. So whose kids are they? I know one is mine but what about the rest of them??? Did their parents all disown them???

In the interest of dotting my i's and crossing my t's, I'm going to make one more correction:

And this is hardly the only example of your assuming with little or no evidence that a problem is much bigger than it may actually be.

This just keeps getting better. According to Sybil, 82.4% of all teenagers have a serious drug or alcohol problem. This holds true in his basement, in the schools, and everywhere else kids congregate except the xtreme dance studio. There is only a 2% occurrence of drug use there...his daughter.

Not only that, he is so oblivious that he can't tell the difference between the noise of a few teenagers and 50, and only has a clue when he is smoked out of his stupor. I'm not claiming to be a perfect parent, but I know that I would realize there was a problem before the smokeout began. Just a little hint in the future, Sybil: When my kids have parties, they know I will be making regular trips through the crowd, and that all party attendees will be introduced to me. I've never had a problem with an out of control party because my kids know better than to try and pull that kind of stunt.

Typing in all caps, re-writing your own history, and claiming the Pope has kids does not help give you any credibility. It does quite the opposite...

A correction to the last part of my post at 12:42 PM today addressed to MHB:

I don't think most people here would mind having a sober discussion about drug use in Naperville; but the keyword here is sober. I suspect that there are very few people who want to begin the discussion with the assumption that there is a government conspiracy going on, which is why your heroin in Naperville "debate" is on life support. And this is hardly the only example of your assuming with little or no evidence that a problem is much bigger than it is.

-JQP

Boy that did work. Let's try it again for font control

To make something bold put "left carat" strong "right carat" before the word(s) and "left carat" /strong "right carat" after. To make it italics, use em and /em between the carats.

I do have to take my daughter to a chiropractic appointment for her pain at 3:30 pm today.

I will try to respond to the rest of you when I get back.

I would like to suggest that we make this debate civil and stop the personal attacks from both sides.

I will be the first to stop them.

Please address me as CIJ instead of calling me names to open up your post. If you do, I will also address you according to your chosen handle.

The Moderator addresses me properly and I address him properly. Why can't we all do just that? Is it that hard to do?

I hope you realize this nonsense gets neither party anywhere.

And thank you all in advance for debating me in a civil manner in the future.

By Chris Magee, moderator on August 12, 2009 2:11 PM
Please don't write in all caps. And if the pope sends his kids over to your house, I'd like to know because there's definitely a story there.

********************
OK, CIJ/MHB etc. In deference to Chris' eyes, here's the secret to font control. If you want to bold a section of type put at the beginning and at the end. If you want to use italics, use and .

By anonymous on August 12, 2009 5:33 AM
Sybil said--

"I did scream at these kids very loudly. They were endangering their lives in a very stupid manner.

THAT IS EXACTLY TRUE.

Ummm, I thought the kids were chased out because they were already drinking alcohol that came in through your 5 basement windows and the smell of weed through your HVAC system alerted you to the fact that you should go downstairs to scream at them and chase them out.

THAT IS EXACTLY TRUE.

I'm pretty sure there would have been inhaling previous to the wafting of smoke upstairs.

THAT IS EXACTLY TRUE.

Now, that would lead me to believe that the kids DID, in fact, run out to drive home while under the influence and underage.

MOSTLY NOT TRUE. THESE KIDS WERE MOSTLY 15 + OR - 1 AND DRIVEN THERE BY THEIR PARENTS OR OTHERS WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS. THEY SCATTERED AWAY FROM MY HOUSE TOWARDS A PARK WHERE I BELIEVE THEY USED THEIR CELL PHONES TO GET RIDES HOME. SOME OF THEM DROVE BUT I DOUBT ANY OF THEM WAS INTOXICATED YET. NONE OF THE KIDS STUMBLED OR FELL DURING THE 10 SECOND FIRE DRILL. NO ONE MOUTHED OFF IN A SLURRING MANNER. MANY MAY HAVE ALSO LIVED WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE. IT IS HARD TO TRACK WHERE 50 TEENAGERS DISAPPEARED TO IN 10 SECONDS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE IN A CONTROLLED STATE OF RAGE WHICH I WAS IN....NO DENYING THAT!

THANKFULLY NO ONE WAS HURT IN THE EXIT FIRE DRILL OR ON THE WAY HOME. YOU COULD SAY THE KIDS AND I WERE BOTH LUCKY THAT THE OPERATION WENT OFF WITHOUT A HITCH EVEN THOUGH NOT A SECOND OF PLANNING WAS INVOLVED.

After you screamed in rage and caused them to leave so quickly that they left their shoes, did you collect their keys on the way out and give each of the 50 a ride home?

THEY COLLECTED THEIR CELL PHONES AND ARRANGED FOR THEIR OWN RIDES. THEY WERE NOT TODDLERS OR INFANTS AND KNOW HOW TO USE A PHONE BETTER THAN I DO. 15 YEAR OLDERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS. OBVIOUSLY THERE WERE SOME EXCEPTIONS WHO DROVE AND MAY HAVE BEEN 16. I DID NOT ID ONE SINGLE KID TO SEE HOW OLD THEY WERE. BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU NOT ONE OF THEM WAS OF LEGAL AGE OF 21.

Did you call each of their parents to pick them up?

I DID NOT CALL A SINGLE PERSON AND DID NOT KNOW WHO THE MAJORITY OF THESE KIDS WERE. TEXTING CAN BRINGS BEEHIVES OF KIDS IN NO TIME FOR A PARTY. TEXTING HAS THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A BIOLOGICAL CELL DIVIDING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND IN A SHORT TIME ONE CELL BECOMES 64. (1-2-4-8-16-32-64) (I believe in another half hour I would have had 100 teenagers in my basement instead of only 50.)

I thought they all never came back for their footwear, if you were driving them home or calling parents to do so, as any responsible parent would, wouldn't shoes be delivered/sent with them?

THEY NEVER CAME BACK FOR THEIR FOOTWEAR. NOT ONE OF THEM. ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS TELL THEIR PARENTS THEY LEFT THEIR FOOTWEAR AT MY HOME AND TO DRIVE THEM BACK TO PICK IT UP. THEY OBVIOUSLY DID NOT WANT TO TELL THEIR PARENTS WHO PROBABLY DO NOT KNOW THEY DRINK ALCOHOL OR SMOKE MAJRIJUANA. I AM SURE THEY SAID THEY LOST THEM OR THEY WERE STOLEN AND GOT A BRAND NEW PAIR. REMEMBER THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF MONEY IN NAPERVILLE EXCEPT IN THE CITY COFFERS. FLIP FLOPS THAT MANY WERE WEARING COST MUCH LESS THAN A 6 PACK OF BEER OR ONE SINGLE JOINT TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE. I HAVE SEEN THEM FOR 99 CENTS AT THE DOLLAR STORE AND 1.99 AT WAL-MART. IT WAS SUMMER TIME.
SANDALS ARE VERY CHEAP TOO.

========================================================================================================================================

Here is what appears to be the problem. Everyone on this blog site except me is a PERFECT PARENT. Their kids do not drink or smoke dope. I am the only IMPERFECT PARENT with an IMPERFECT CHILD in the City of Naperville.

Based on the fact that the USA stated 82.4% of these 9th graders abuse alchohol and drugs and 49 other kids that evening were not my kids, I think a lot of parents in this town are really not aware what their kids are doing. I am at least aware.

A doctor in my neighborhood had a similar experience with his child. After I told him what happened, he took me to his home and showed me how he had installed metal security bars on all his basement windows that were locked to prevent ingress and egress from these windows. I asked him if he was concerned about a fire and an exit plan. He stated that is the least of his concerns and is petty compared to what could happen if another one of these kinds of parties takes place.

I did not install security bars since I work out of my home. Between the spouse and I we have the home covered 90% of the time. We have asked our neighbors to be on the look out at all times and we are on the look out for them in a reciprocal manner. We have not had any further problems with basement parties. I think the controlled rage is what was needed. It did the job. The kids are afraid to come back to my home and that is exactly what I want.

I want my kids associating with a large pool of good kids such as in her Dance Studio where use is less than one half of 1% at the most. I don't want her associating with kids in Naperville High Schools and Neighborhoods where use of alcohol and drugs is probably close to 92.4% according to the USA Government. There was nothing in the report that stated Naperville was not included in this survey or an exception. My personal experiences confirm the USA report.

I think I am being a good parent. Maybe I did not catch on as fast as Former WV Mom, but I caught on. I guess I finally see her point. It is very possible none of 60 kids who do cross country drink or dope. It is also possible that none of a potential 50 dancers would drink or smoke dope. Both of these activities require great endurance that can not be acquired if you smoke cigs, marijuana or abuse alcohol. That I know for a fact through personal experience.

But also due to my experiences, I am never allowing another party in my basement even if Obama and the Pope send their children over. I am taking no more chances. I saw what can happen. I am fully aware the situation could have been much worse. I am fully aware I was very lucky that fateful evening. My neighbor the doctor saw what could happen when he is in office treating patients.

I am just glad I busted the party before the NPD busted it. I think if the NPD busted the party a lot of people would be in trouble including perhaps me even though it was the first and last party in my basement and I was caught extremely off guard.

I would have never believed that 82.6% of 15 year olders are drinkers and dopers before this horrendous experience. I have little doubt that the government survey is accurate. Any statisitics coming from local establishment sources can not be trusted or relied on while Naperville is sending press releases to promote itself as the "Best Place to Raise Children."

Maybe I will send a press release to MONY(you all know I love to write) before the next contest and document the 5 heroin deaths that took place in Naperville, unincorporated Naperville, and along the borders of Naperville in the last 6 months and point out that the NPD is most probably hiding a few more. And what about all these teenage suicide deaths that are taking place in town that are kept sealed. The last one took place on July 24, 2009. The last heroin death I am aware of in Naperville also took place on that same date.

The folks on this blog site could contribute in a positive manner if they put their energies towards fighting the abuse of alcohol and drugs by our youth in Naperville. Attacking me the MESSENGER of bad news serves absolutely no purpose to fight the ramapaging drug problem in Naperville.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Bacially the problem on this blog site has been that the bloggers have chosen to focus their entire energy towards the MESSENGER instead of his or her MESSAGE.

PS. I do believe this is a quality post, Moderator Chris, that has a lot of educational value to parents who may have kids approaching the teenage years. You called for quality posts and I hope you feel this is a QUALITY POST. It does not attack anyone.

MHB wrote:

There has been no changing of the story, JQP. Possibly progression of the story which you have been unable to comprehend.

MHB,

You're really a piece of work. The only "progression" was your trying to weasel out of the corner you'd painted yourself into. If you can't take responsibility for something you clearly stated, then there really is no hope for you. But then, I've pretty much known that for a while.

-JQP

It amazes me how you feel you have the support and approval of the moderator. He has told you more than once that you do not. He tolerates you at best. I am sure he doesn't lambaste you because of his role as "moderator".

You speak of your "graduate degrees": What degrees do you hold and in what fields? Id be curious to know - do they give advance degrees in paranoia, conspiracy theory, and misrepresentation of statistic?

MHB wrote:

You wrongfully tried to take credit for being the first to recommend transfering this debate from the Behavior Thread to the Open Topic Thread.

Not quite. I took credit for being the person who actually moved the debate to this thread, which I was. Here is what I said:

BTW, for the record, you are not the one that moved this discussion back to the Open topic blog. I am.

I will give you credit for making the suggestion, though. Of course, this was only after Chris said you were hi-jacking the thread, and you continued to post on the old topic until I moved it over. Anyway, one point for you and one for me.

And, from you:

I have been dealing with these allegations of hijacking for a long time and always have moved my conversations to DEAD THREADS so people can complain till their blue in the face.

Really? Always? Can you give us a few more examples?

And:

These prosecutarial discussions of yours that involve petty slicing and dicing are worthless.

Pointing out the blatant discrepancy between what you initially said about your daughter's drug use and the role her dancing supposedly played in it and what you said one week later was not "slicing and dicing" or being nit-picky. That post was the genesis of much of the argument that has taken place over the past ten days. I'll admit that the disagreement about who moved the topic over here was nit-picky, though.

On the other hand, so much of what you say in almost every discussion you've been involved in is, IMO, inaccurate, exaggerated or just plain wrong that I just don't have the time or energy to point it all out. So I seize upon things like this from time to time just to give you an idea of where just a little bit of care on your part might serve to help you to keep from enlarging the huge credibilty hole you've created for yourself over the years. A lot of bloggers here don't take anything you say at face value, and it's not because we all have an ulterior motive. You just can't seem to start a discusssion without exagerrating, suggesting a conspiracy, etc. Kids dying of heroin overdoses in Naperville is a serious topic that is worthy of discussion. But we've had one reported heroin death in Naperville this year for which the supplier has been arrested, and one more for which the only "evidence" has come from you. From this, you've presumed that we've had "many" heroin deaths, that heroin is flowing through our streets, and that the NPD and/or the City is covering this up. I don't think most people here would mind having a sober discussion about drug use in Naperville; but the keyword here is soberheroin in Naperville "debate" is on life support. And this is hardly the only example of your assuming with little or no evidence that a problem is much bigger than it is.

-JQP

Now, we all know why this Sybil HE/SHE/IT hates cops, because she has been or her darlings have been in trouble at least 20 plus times... That is why she does not call the cops when there are underage drinking, pot smoking, ect ect... She/He/It handles it herself because she will get in trouble again. Thats why she complained about all the cops in the court rooms too, because she was in there getting in trouble. I love it...

GET A LIFE...

By Conscientious Observer on August 12, 2009 9:24 AM

Not to pick on you, but you bring so much of this on yourself when you brag about your supposed superior 'intelligence' and behave like you are the only blogger (with one or two exceptions) who can see the light while everyone who disagrees with you or has a differing point of view is a 'crazy'.

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I never bragged about my superior intelligence and do not consider myself to have superior intelligence.

Yes, I can type extremely fast and do not rely on spell check but that comes from practice and experience and not superior intelligence.

I simply agreed with the Moderator who stated I was intelligent. I was very humbled by his comment. Since Kindergarten Children have very limited vocabulary I guess they call it "bragging." Sounds like a KG word to me.

I also agreed with the Moderator who claimed most of you act like Kindergarten Children on his blog site. And in my opinion you continue to act like Kindergarten Children. Instead of asking me to look at my behavior, look at the behavior the Moderator described most of you as portraying. Stop being in denial. Accept the truth. I think we all agree the Moderator is a very level headed, down to earth, intelligent and mature person especially for his very young age.

He has never stated I wish I never made that comment about KG. I am sure he still feels you are Kindergarten Children most likely because you would rather engage in personal attacks than blog on the great subjects he puts forth for you folks to discuss.

Even the gentleman here who has appointed himself to Prosecute me has admitted that I am something like "intelligent". I unfortunately do not remember the exact words he used. But he is excellent with historical "diggging" and should have no trouble extracting his own words.

Hey Sybil,

The fact that you have been involved in over 25 court cases speaks volumes. You might not need to worry about suing bloggers on this site for 'libeling' you. Instead, you may want to check and see if it is possible to sue YOURSELF for defamation of character because the more you speak the odder you seem.

Sybil said,
"Moderator Chris was right when he called me an intelligent man. I am very well educated with graduate degrees and many life enriching experiences. I can type faster than most people can think. I don't use spell check and I have very few spelling errors."

I guess you don't need us to point out when you have tasted your own shoe leather, but the following comment of yours (a Freudian slip, perhaps?) to Moderator Chris made me chuckle:

"Apparently, this debate means nothing to you because you do not have kids yet. Very understandable! When I was your age I was whining and dining dates and teenage drug problems were also the least of my concerns." Whining?

Not to pick on you, but you bring so much of this on yourself when you brag about your supposed superior 'intelligence' and behave like you are the only blogger (with one or two exceptions) who can see the light while everyone who disagrees with you or has a differing point of view is a 'crazy'. Do you not hear what others say and value their right to an opinion or do you only listen to the voices in your own head?

Sybil said--

"I did scream at these kids very loudly. They were endangering their lives in a very stupid manner. Many were planning to drink and drive home. Furthermore, as a homeowner technically I was liable for anything that may have happened. I could have easily been imprisoned or lost my home."

Ummm, I thought the kids were chased out because they were already drinking alcohol that came in through your 5 basement windows and the smell of weed through your HVAC system alerted you to the fact that you should go downstairs to scream at them and chase them out. I'm pretty sure there would have been inhaling previous to the wafting of smoke upstairs. Now, that would lead me to believe that the kids DID, in fact, run out to drive home while under the influence and underage. After you screamed in rage and caused them to leave so quickly that they left their shoes, did you collect their keys on the way out and give each of the 50 a ride home? Did you call each of their parents to pick them up? I thought they all never came back for their footwear, if you were driving them home or calling parents to do so, as any responsible parent would, wouldn't shoes be delivered/sent with them? No wonder your daughter smokes. Is it the chicken or the egg? She smokes because her dad is an imbecile, or she smokes because her dad drives her to do so?

Oh, NPD...Sybil has something to say to you...

By the way, Sybil, libel is generally an option for those whose income has been affected by wrongful press. This is difficult to establish on a good day, and unless these blogs are your only source of income, you don't have much to complain about. I am with others here, your only reason for whining about libel is created by you yourself, it gets pretty hard to keep your P's and Q's in line when the spread sheet you require to keep your story lines straight is so wide it drops off the screen.

Seriously, some sleep, a 12 step program, removing all access to keyboards and additional meds may be key in your situation.

By Best Place to Raise Children??? on August 3, 2009 12:01 PM
By Chris Magee, moderator on August 3, 2009 11:32 AM
On the original topic of this blog, something else that drives me nuts is when someone hijacks the topic of a blog and starts talking about something totally different.

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Moderator Chris,
There is no hijacking here.

I can't tell you how badly it drives me nuts to see over a dozen police officers on one intersection in downtown late. While it is your opinion that I am hijacking a thread, it is my opinion that I brought a disturbing behavior to the thread that generated interest from many bloggers.

If I did not feel it had any relevance, I would have went to the Open Topic thread where I usually go. It really makes no difference where I blog.

If you would like to transfer the last 15 posts to the Open Topic Thread we can continue our debate there. It is just nice to see so many Napervillians interested in a good debate.

Thanks.

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JQP,
You wrongfully tried to take credit for being the first to recommend transfering this debate from the Behavior Thread to the Open Topic Thread. I even believed you, stated I was wrong and gave you credit without checking...just took your word for it even though that is something I specialize in to keep complainers and whiners as happy as possible.

I noticed I made the suggestion 21 hours before you did. I guess it was my idea and not your idea as I had done this often in the past. It seems like you attempted to hijack my idea and take credit for it. Caught you Johnny Boy? This may go to your credibility report card just a bit. And I did not even doubt you when you took credit for something you did not suggest.

I won't say you lied but you wrongfully claimed it was your idea while implying I may have lied. You can be very petty and nitpicky, JQP. But remember it slices both ways.

I can do occasional research, too, when necessary even though I like to blog purely from memory.

I have been dealing with these allegations of hijacking for a long time and always have moved my conversations to DEAD THREADS so people can complain till their blue in the face.

OK, I lied and said I was going to bed at 315am and would get 5 hours of good sleep. Well, I will try to get to bed at 4:20am and hopefully try to get 4 hours of good sleep before I have to get up and deal with the Stock Market.

These prosecutarial discussions of yours that involve petty slicing and dicing are worthless. Start blogging about the topics that interest you instead of shadowing me around the clock.

By Fed Up With MHB's Ongoing Noise and BS on August 12, 2009 12:42 AM

Also - just for those who might find it interesting - MHB has posted 8 times in the past 24 hours or so - writing about 6800 words. It must be something to have so much time and so little else to fill it, except to rant and rave here. You poor unfortunate soul.

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Please don't feel sorry for me. I love writing. If you add my 4 more late night posts you may get 10,000 words in 24 hours. Thanks for confirming that I am an extremely fast thinker and typer. At least you can not say I lied.

Others take 3 hours in a day to watch a Cubs or White Sox game. I don't watch any baseball in the summer. I have no clue if the Cubs are in first place or last...same for the White Sox. I also feel very rested after only 4 or 5 hours of sleep. So that gives me much more time to blog than the average blogger who needs 8 hours of sleep. I have to wake up every morning at 815 am as the stock market opens at 830am and I need at least one cup of Java to begin thinking properly in the morning. If I get to sleep in 20 minutes or less I will get my 5 hours of sleep. Plenty for me!

If I have a lot of people who want to debate me I can free up 3 hours or more if necessary to debate them. I debate while watching the news and trading stocks. You have to wait for the right movement in the market to make your kill. It can come in one hour or the next day. So blogging keeps me occupied while I await the volatility needed for a successful trade.

Today, I blogged while watching so many American Citizens cussing out their Senators.

The kids have a lull from their activities which means I don't have to play soccer Mom or Dad which ever one it may be. The new kitten seems to be living on my shoulder so she is gettinig a lot of attention. Instead of scratching my head when I am thinking I just reach back and find myself massaging the kitty. She loves it and I love it. The dog is so interested in the kitten, she no longer needs my attention which gives me more time to blog.

Anyway, you should be glad I can find time to respond to most of those who address me. I think that is respectful to respond to those who want to debate you and not ignore them.

I know what takes priority. When I had to be at my Daughter's ShowCase on Saturday I was missing in action for the 6 hours I was there and to dinner afterwards plus travel time. I really was not required to be there again Sunday but I chose to go a second time over blogging and had a great time. You should have noticed I was missing in action for 6 hours again yesterday or Sunday. I have a good life and know how to allocate my time. During my one week vacation I spent 10 minutes blogging and got creamed for it...lol...

Obviously, I am not addicted. I am in control and for the most part having fun except when the personal attacks get nasty. But I really have developed a high tolerance for these personal attacks after 3.5 years literally in the trenches.

Today was a slow day for me. I trade from my home so unlike you folks I save 2 to 3 hours each day of travel time that I can use for blogging. See how lucky I am. I found time to go to both the subdivision swimming pool and the health club while cranking out those estimated 10,000 words today and tonight. I even met with my landscaper who was doing some work for me today. And of course walked the dog 2 miles. OK, if I did not blog a lot today, I would have walked the dog 5 miles. But it was hot and she preferred 2 miles. So everyone is happy in my neck of the woods. How about in yours?

Please give me an exact number Fed Up with His Own Noise after you add in my late night and early morning posts. Can you tell me how many words are in a 500 page book? Since I love to write I may one day write a book about government waste and high taxes in America. Who knows??? I was serious when I said I would like to write a book about the Napergate Man but I just haven't been able to get around to it. Sooner or later I will realize if I can pump 10,000 words on this blog site effortlessly, I could probably write a book in a week. What say you Fed Up with His Own Noise?

It really seems to me that bloggers enjoy what I write. If they did not they would not be here. If they don't enjoy what I write, they certainly care about what I have to say. They seem determined to attack my credibility which leads me to believe my message is worrisome to them.

Have a good night ye all. It is my bedtime finally. I snuck 3 minutes of my bedtime out so I could finish this post.

By John Q. Public on August 11, 2009 11:41 PM

You know what else damages reputations? Changing your story midstream, which some might also call "lying".

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You know very well I did not change my story midstream.

I stated a week ago that my daughter occasionally smokes marijuana. I did not say if this occasional use was one week ago, one month ago or one year ago, because I really don't know. My daughter knows I don't tolerate this behavior even for pain so why do you think she will tell me. The last time I physically caught her smoking marijuana to relieve her pain was about 2 years ago in her bedroom by herself. There was no party or anyone else present. I believed her that it was for pain but told her it was unacceptable. I explained to her that the tar was 4 times worse than cigs. She quit cigs because she wanted healthy lungs to compete and I wanted her to realize marijuana is worse than cigs. I suspect she has finally realized it. I just don't think you can compete at the National Level while you are on marijuana. Every move has to be in sync with every other dancer for 10 full minutes or the judges detect it and your team loses. She knows the consequences of letting her teammates down and she did not let them down as witnessed by 3 consecutive National Championships.....going for 4 next year so we have to make every effort to prevent a relapse of any kind. So far so good. Remember, she is 19, technically an adult and does not have to listen to me anymore. At least she listens to me. She knows I have her best interest at stake.

A week later I stated it was in the past and I believe it has been licked. I got my fingers crossed that there will be no relapses. I am not guaranteeing anything but I am very hopeful. I am not naive either.

Since we have had discussions about Marinol to help her with her pain, I think she has lost interest in marijuana. She knows it is illegal and harmful and now she knows there are legal alternatives that in my opinion are better and safer.

There has been no changing of the story, JQP. Possibly progression of the story which you have been unable to comprehend.

If I need a criminal lawyer, you would be the last person I would hire. The jury would get tired of your semantics and find your client guility as charged. They would be annonyed with your constant mutation of the English language.

Get a life and stop tracking every word I say. Can't you see it is not doing you any good because I do not lie and my story is honest. If you don't lie, no one can trap you even if they attempt to mutate your sentences and paragraphs......

By Ken on August 11, 2009 11:59 PM
Pretty sad that a person who does not even know the basics of raising a pet has been part of raising at least one teenager...

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I raised 2 teenagers. One is a second year graduate student and one is a sophomore. Both are good students but are not perfect.

How are your teenagers doing?

I have also raised a dog for 6 years. She is quite an impressive thing. Do you think I was born knowing how to raise a kitten?

I once found 4 squirrels in my attic and raised them and released them to the wild after 3 months. They still come and visit me for peanuts.

And I raised a rabbit until he died of old age.

How are your pets doing?

I hope you recovered from your illness and are out of your wheel chair. Now let us try to be nice....please!

By Fed Up With MHB's Ongoing Noise and BS on August 12, 2009 12:42 AM
I can just picture you screaming at the kids at your home. It is very possible that they left because they thought you were mentally unstable and were going to hurt someone. You say all 50 of them were drinking and smoking pot. How do you know each and everyone of them was doing this? Did you see them? Did you witness each and everyone of them doing these things? id venture to say you did not.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I guess you are trying to get yourself out of a hole after realizing my threat was to call the police which is the proper course of action. Not to beat up teenagers with baseball bats. I am not that stupid. I can control my anger and rage and always have and will always be able to. Thank God!

I did scream at these kids very loudly. They were endangering their lives in a very stupid manner. Many were planning to drink and drive home. Furthermore, as a homeowner technically I was liable for anything that may have happened. I could have easily been imprisoned or lost my home. Did you ever read about the Evanston couple that were not diligent about a party in their basement? I do believe one of the parents did end up in the slammer and they also had a financial liability if I recall properly.

In ten seconds I could not see what or whether everyone was drinking....but I did see more drinking and smoking than I care for. The marijuana aroma in the basement was simply smothering. No one came here for a Youth Services Church Meeting. They all came here to drink and smoke dope. 50 teenagers did not just walk in my home randomly without some plan in action. Sneaking in through basement windows shows me what they were all up to. I had no clue 50 people were in my basement. I thought I saw a handful or two head to the basement from upstairs and that worried me. So I was already on guard.

Not one teenager cared to come upstairs and tell me something wrong was happening in my basement. They were all guilty. The NPD would have charged each and everyone for being present at this party whether they were drinking or not. That is the law in our city. I am sure Moderator Chris is familiar with liquor ordinances in Naperville.

Not one teenager came up and told me there was a problem. That should tell you something.

But I can tell you we filled 2 medium size reclcying containers from the City of Naperville with beer cans and booze bottles. We flushed quite a bit of marijuana down the toilet. I suspect much of the marijuana escaped with the kids as it is easy to conceal. Thankfully there were no hard drugs like cocaine or heroin or I would have called the NPD.

Those are the facts, Fed Up with His Own Noise. It would be nice if you did not try to make so much noise. You are trying to rewrite history by attempting to slice and dice a little. Of course, I could not judge who was doing what in 10 seconds. I just wanted them out of my house as quickly as possible and I got them out of my house.

End of story! Are you worried that one of the left over shoes, sandals or flip flops may be traced to a son or daughter? Have no worries....I did not turn them into the NPD.

I gave the kids a break this one time. They never tried it again in my house. None of them ever set foot in my house again. I accomplished what I set out to do.

By Anonymous on August 11, 2009 8:23 PM
CIJ,

You are intolerant of the opinions of others, taking pride in driving people off this site. Your passion for your causes does not automatically mean that you are right. If you could for one second mitigate your character deficits, stepping back to allow others their opinions, consider a democratic debate form, you would find yourself free from being attacked for your personality problems.
Your vindictive behavior includes using some of the most hateful phrases posted on this site, under the guise of “defending yourself from attack”. Need I define them? How many times does Moderator Chris have to tell you that he wishes he had bit his tongue on the intelligent comment?

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1. I have not driven one person off this site. Wanting to bury their credibility is not wanting to drive them off this blog site. Where I go, bloggers come out of the woodwork to debate me. I ususally go to a DEAD THREAD to debate a person or two and suddenly attacks come out of nowhere. I have every right to counter attack and silence those who attack me. If someone punches me in a bar without any instigation on my part, I am knocking him out. I am not giving him my other cheek. If you are a wimp who does not fight back or stand up for your rights, that is your prerogative. Be a wimp and see how far that will get you in life.

2.I have never said my passion for my casuses make me right. I simply expressed opinions such as police and firefighters are paid too much, that 75% pensions at age 52 are a bit too costly for taxpayers, that police OT should be curbed as much as possible, etc. ect. and found myself under attack for daring to express an opinion. Why not express a counter-opinion without attacking me personally? I never attack first. I simply blog on the subject matter without mentioning any bloggers and the attacks begin. Let us not try to rewrite history. It is all recorded on this blog site. Rather than site I attack first, give me a specific example where I attacked a blogger first when beginning a discussion in the last 8 months. To the best of my knowledge, I don't recall that ever happening.

3. Almost every blogger except maybe the Moderator can not even address me properly. If I am blogging as CIG please address me that way. What is with this Sybil and whatever other stuff? And you are accusing me of hateful language. Hey buddy, I have been involved in over 25 court cases. I know libel from non-libel. I libeled no one but I am constantly libeled. Calling me a liar is libel. Have you ever seen me call a blogger a liar? Calling a kid who occasionally uses alcohol or marijuana a druggie is libel. When I counter attack I hit hard but I do not libel. Obviously, you appear lacking in intelligence to not know the difference between hateful phrases, libel and acceptable phrases.

If you catch someone in a lie, it is OK to say he lied especially if they had called you a liar several times. I am being very restrained. I understand the consequences of litigation due to libel. The one reason bloggers have not been sued is because they are anonymous and I am anonymous so no one is really being hurt. If my identity was ever exposed, I would sue no less than 50 bloggers for libel and defamation of character. So it is in the interest of all bloggers that I remain anonymous. You are not hurting my family or I as long as I am anonymous. Heed that warning please and make sure I remain anonymous.

4. In a court of law you have to face the beat of the drums. The City of Naperville had to face the beat of the drums when they libeled the Napergate Man and paid up big time whatever the undisclosed amount may be.

5. Moderator Chris is someone I respect even though I disagree with. He is a young man. Sometimes young men second guess themselves as they mature. Moderator Chris was right when he called me an intelligent man. I am very well educated with graduate degrees and many life enriching experiences. I can type faster than most people can think. I don't use spell check and I have very few spelling errors. I can follow an argument from beginning to end. I can maintain my credibility while exposing others flaws in their credibility. Rather easily may I add. Sorry to sound conceited but the truth needs to be told when my intelligence is being questioned.

6. One of the lessons of life I learned early on is that it does not pay to lie. I rarely ever lie but I have lied in my life. By not lying, I am able to establish credibility that can not be challenged even by 1000 bloggers. That is why hundreds of you have tried to destroy my credibility in the last 3.5 years but not one has succeeded. You want to quiet me down because my political message threatens you. If you are receiving a Big Fat Pension, you have many reasons why you would like to attack me and try to destroy my reputation. You want to preserve your pension. You want to live high and mighty at the expense of the taxpayers.

7. If you would seen the outrage on all the cable networks today about wasteful government spending, you would sense that the milking of the taxpayers is almost over. They rose up today and told their Senators that enough is enough. If you think I am tough on our politicians, you should have seen these towns people across the country. They were much tougher than me, they used much worse language than me, they were in their politicians' faces, and in some cases they had to be restrained by police while cussing out their respective Senators. It is not to late to catch it on CNN if you are still up.

Let us understand that I am disliked because many here want to keep the excesses of government rolling at the expense of the taxpayers.
The only residents who could be so obsessed with me have to be those in public office who are trying to protect their fiefdom. Their are always exception like TB but then it turns out his father and brother are working for government and in line for Big Fat Pensions at your expense and mine. If we don't stop this madness we will all be bankrupt. Let us wake up and stop attacking the messenger with the MESSAGE that wakes the taxpayers up.

I can just picture you screaming at the kids at your home. It is very possible that they left because they thought you were mentally unstable and were going to hurt someone. You say all 50 of them were drinking and smoking pot. How do you know each and everyone of them was doing this? Did you see them? Did you witness each and everyone of them doing these things? id venture to say you did not. I am not saying that some of them may have been doing these things. But your hyperbole is again off the charts - as it usually is. You make the most ludicrous statements.

Also - just for those who might find it interesting - MHB has posted 8 times in the past 24 hours or so - writing about 6800 words. It must be something to have so much time and so little else to fill it, except to rant and rave here. You poor unfortunate soul. Did you give up on supporting your Palestinian cause? I haven't seen you out on the bridge lately.

What's next MHB? Challenging those of us you don't like to meet you behind the school for a fist fight? Your anger is becoming more and more apparent. I really hope you dont own any guns.

Pretty sad that a person who does not even know the basics of raising a pet has been part of raising at least one teenager...

I don't expect you to support me. I expect you to support the TRUTH. I expect you to prevent lies whenever possible. I expect you not to allow a person who may have lied or been mistaken to be called a liar which is libel.

Interesting. Are you talking about yourself? If so, are you admitting to having lied, or merely to having been mistaken? Because the two are very different.

Just like you don't call a person who occasionally lies a liar, you also don't call a person who occasionally drinks or tried marijuana a druggie. Both are equally libelous. Both damage otherwise good reputations.

You know what else damages reputations? Changing your story midstream, which some might also call "lying".

I agree that when I write certain things I have to face the consequences of what I write. I have no trouble owning up to what I say and have owned up to it.

Really? So when are you going to own up to the fact that what you said about your daughter's marijuana use this week blatantly contradicts what you said one week ago? You seem even to have taken offense at me for pointing it out.

What blogger have you ever held accountable for lying about me?

Good question. But who lied about you? Is a blogger who doesn't know who you are, and disbelieves everything you've said about your daughter to the point of doubting that you have a daughter lying? Not really.

Anyone who followed the story of my daughter knows I was telling the truth. I had the courage to be honest and admit my daughter drank and smoked marijuana occasionally when seeking advice from Former WV Mom under an Anonymous Handle.

Actually, the first post in which you admitted your daughter's marijuana use was in response to a post from Conscientious Observor about the DARE program. And the handle you used in that post was Best Place to Raise Children???

-JQP

By Fed Up With The Noise on August 11, 2009 6:53 AM
MHB: I can tell you for sure - if you had threatened one of my children while in a state of rage, no matter what they had done, the police would be paying you a visit.

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Fed Up with His Own Noise,
You really never do get fed up with your own noise....do you!

Yes, I did threaten the 50 teenagers by telling them if they did not get out of my house in 10 seconds, I would call the Naperville Police and they would be here in no time.

I did not tell them to leave their shoes, sandals and flip flops. They were so afraid of the NPD they got out of my house in less than 10 seconds. Many exited from the 5 basement windows they deactivated the alarms on and used to transport the booze, marijuana and a few extra bodies to party with. It was an excellent fire drill to say the least.

So you would call the police on me if one of these 50 kids I threatened was yours. Be my guest. I guarantee that the NPD would arrest your child, and not me for my non-tolerance of alcohol and drugs.

As soon as I smelled a sniff of marijuana from my A/C and Heating Ducts I was down there in a nanosecond.

I always thought you were a stooge with very loose bearings...I guess they were looser than I could have ever imagined.

Sometimes I simply can not believe I am here debating Kindergarten Children. As long as Former WV Mom is here I am staying to learn a few more things aboug children and raising kittens. (Can you let a kitten outside to play for a while when the dog is doing his thing...or is there a risk she will hide or run, WV Mom?)

Notice how WV Mom provided additional helpful statistices while the rest of you went on a stampeding rampage like bulls.

You state the XTreme Dance people are now monitoring this blog...Thank God. I can't imagine they want one of their dancers smoking pot. I can't imagine whatever competition circuit they perform in would allow it. What a message to send to others. I mean can you imagine if your daughter now needs a letter of recommendation. If fellow parents now know. I mean are there more than one dancer with Scoliosis?

CIJ,

Many a brilliant mind has been trounced by personality defects, not the least of which was Adolph Hitler. Your character flaws including intolerance, vindictiveness, utter arrogance, boastfulness, and insecurity veiled as your need to win at all cost will forever prevent your message from being considered viable.

You are intolerant of the opinions of others, taking pride in driving people off this site. Your passion for your causes does not automatically mean that you are right. If you could for one second mitigate your character deficits, stepping back to allow others their opinions, consider a democratic debate form, you would find yourself free from being attacked for your personality problems.

Your vindictive behavior includes using some of the most hateful phrases posted on this site, under the guise of “defending yourself from attack”. Need I define them?

You often attempt to mitigate previous verbal arrogance by supplying overly humble proclamations that always sound insincere to the reader.

Boastful- I could fill the page. “I am a better Citizen Investigative Journalist than you all give me credit for. More intelligent and honest than most bloggers here.” Literally everyone here wishes you would just GET OVER YOURSELF. How many times does Moderator Chris have to tell you that he wishes he had bit his tongue on the intelligent comment? His most recent response to you “Did you ever think that maybe I let comments through because I think you deserve to hear what they are saying?” Of course we all know that you will not hear and you cannot change. That is the problem with character flaws.

By John Q. Public on August 11, 2009 5:30 PM

Again, I have to correct you about this. My statement about your not starting the personal attacks had to do with one set of exchanges on one topic several months ago; it was not a general observation about your behavior on Potluck. You are hardly a model of self-restraint when it comes to personal attacks.

-JQP

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John,
You are beginning to sound more like a smartalic than a Prosecutor.

You are fully aware who has started all personal attacks since the Moderator exposed me as the Multi-Handled Blogger.

By playing dumb you are making a fool of yourself and losing your credibility.

Why are you so interested in having your coffin of credibility lined up alongside the 3 Stooges, Ken, T.B., LOL, GJC, Conscientious Observer, every other Anonymous and all the other crazies on this blog site. I guess I have the Professor on the bubble for now. Former WV Mom is in excellent standing with me. I am hopeful she will eventually see through all the peer pressure you folks have imposed on her. When someone is as principled and honest as she is, it is only a matter of time that they see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Like I said you guys are so good about putting your feet in your mouths that you make my job so eeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssyyyyy!

Thank you so ever much for that.

By Anonymous on August 11, 2009 5:51 PM
By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 11, 2009 3:20 PM

Yes, there is more now because you generate a lot of traffic concerning YOU--and of course that's what it's all about isn't it? YOU. The quality of what you post sucks.

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This THREAD WAS DEAD when I came on at the urging of JQP. It was stuck on 243 for a few days. No one had any interest in it at the time.

Who is forcing you to be here to discuss my daughter if you feel this entire debate is about her and not the general drug problem in Naperville? No one! If this story about ME bores you what are you doing here? Who has got a gun to your head or a knife to your throat? Who is forcing you to post, write or blog on this particular thread? Plese inform.

While this was not intended to be about my daughter, she was dragged into this scenario because blogger after blogger stated I was making it all up. So it was more about the CREDIBILITY of the bloggers than ME or my DAUGHTER.

As far as the story of my daughter it is a very interesting one. She was an abuser of cigs, alcohol and/or marijuana on an occasional basis at the very young age of 15. (She later continued to use marijuana to relieve pain without my knowledge or permission.) She was thrown off the National Team at age 15 for not having the endurance necessary....deservedly so....I doubt the studio even knew about her bad habits....but they knew with certainty she could not compete at the National Level and they were absolutely right.

She somehow got her act togehter and won 3 National Championship on a Dance Team despite barely being 19. She has one more chance for a 4th one before she must retire or become a pro. And it will be broadcast live again next year in late July so you can all verify with your own two eyes.

As a parent I have a right to be proud of her. If you want to continue calling her a "druggie" continue doing it. Maybe many of you have low self esteem and putting her down by calling her a "druggie" makes you feel better. If it makes you feel better, be my guest and call her a "druggie." I am quite certain my favorite blogger, Former WV Mom, would not consider her a "druggie."

I am sure she understands that even though I was not a "perfect" parent, I tried my best. I am sure she knows it was not a lack of effort on my part.

How many kids do you know that hit the slippery slope and later found their way back up the mountain again? Well she found the mountain TOP and apparently likes it up there. Let us hope she stays there! I got my fingers crossed for her. I am praying for her.

Moderator Chris,
I agree that there is more to a blog than number of hits. I write posts that are long and try to respond to groups instead of one person whenever I can in one post. So I am in no way trying to increase the number of hits or I would write short ones and you would have a 1000 and then your bloggers would claim I hijacked a spacecraft instead of just an aircraft.

I am always trying to have quality conversations here and you allow the bloggers to attack me personally each time and sometimes even libel me which leads us to unnecessary arguments instead of debating the issues. This is the first time I debated a personal issue and it was not meant to explode in this nature. It was a one and one conversation with Former WV Mom and it was really going very well until you allowed the bloggers to poison her. All my former debates were not personal in nature. But as you know I was attacked for being against Big Fat Pensions or Excessive Police OT. What is personal about that?

Anyway, this debate has not been about one person's drug problems. It may have started that way but it became about the drug problems that are rampant and affecting 92.4% of our teenagers. As you know even though I was alleged of fabricating the 70% figure of teenagers drinking and smoking pot, it turned out to be much higher than my low estimate according to the US. Govt.

This debate was not about one person's drug problems as you allege. It is about a town's serious drug problems. It was about heroin deaths in town that the NPD is trying to cover up. I don't buy the HIPAA bolony theory that is being given here as an excuse for the cover up. The police are always called to the scene of an overdoze victim as it is considered a possible crime scene. They know about the death before the hospital does and are not bound by HIPPA. Other towns speak freely of heroin deaths. Do HIPAA laws not apply to them. A confirmed death from heroin has nothing to do with HIPAA.

Apparently, this debate means nothing to you because you do not have kids yet. Very understandable! When I was your age I was whining and dining dates and teenage drug problems were also the least of my concerns. I believe you mentioned you were 29 at the time. You could have turned 30 by now.

I don't expect you to support me. I expect you to support the TRUTH. I expect you to prevent lies whenever possible. I expect you not to allow a person who may have lied or been mistaken to be called a liar which is libel.

Just like you don't call a person who occasionally lies a liar, you also don't call a person who occasionally drinks or tried marijuana a druggie. Both are equally libelous. Both damage otherwise good reputations. You allowed blogger after blogger to call my daughter a "druggie." That is improper unless you want to call the other 92.4% of students in our schools druggies. Do you want to call the 82% of 9th grades who drink also druggies. Is that fair?

I hope you are letting my comments through so others can hear what I am saying. I hope you are letting them through because you don't believe in censorship. I hope you are letting them through so I can expose that many of your bloggers blatantly lie. I hope you are letting them through so I can show most bloggers who attack me have no credibility.

I agree that when I write certain things I have to face the consequences of what I write. I have no trouble owning up to what I say and have owned up to it.

What we have seen the last few days is an army of bashers who are dumb enough to believe that my daughter is the only bad apple in town. That their kids are perfect and those 92.4% of kids who drink in high school and illegally are not their children. They are all my children.

The 47,000 children that drink are all my kids in Naperville. The 3,000 kids who do not drink in Naperville are the kids of 1 or 2,000 lucky parents like Former WV Mom. I never knew I had so much reproductive capacity.

The majority of your bloggers are living a lie. I sense you side with them. Your posts indicate you side with them.

What blogger have you ever held accountable for lying about me? What blogger have you ever held accountable for personally attacking me.

You can do as you please. As long as you let me post and do not censure my posts which for the most part you don't, the truth will come out and prevail.

I see a herd mentality amongst your bloggers. They all appear weak and feel more comfortable flowing with the majority just like kids when they drink and smoke marijuana to be cool. They fall for blog pressure just like the kids fall for peer pressure.

Anyone who followed the story of my daughter knows I was telling the truth. I had the courage to be honest and admit my daughter drank and smoked marijuana occasionally when seeking advice from Former WV Mom under an Anonymous Handle.

I was falsely accused of bringing her up for "bragging purposes" even though she got national championships the past 2 years and I never said a word on this blog site about her even though I was the most active blogger at the time also. The only reason I gave some details about her is to destroy the credibility of the majority of your bloggers who alleged I was lying about my "dancing daughter." I believe I can put the sign up "Mission Accomplished" and unlike George Bush's sign it will not blow with the winds of Iraq. It will be a sturdy sign. It will hang strong against the winds.

You allowed your bloggers to go on a stampede against my daughter and I, just because I was trying to get some free advice. Your bloggers were unconscionable and you did not have the courage to tell them they were without conscience to launch a full scale attack on an innocent Dance Studio and its dancers. This dance studio was portrayed in an evil light because one third of a per cent of its dancers tried alcohol/marijuana compared to a national average of 92.4% by high school seniors. I say LAUGH OUT LOUD....AND EVEN LOUDER IF POSSIBLE!

But actions speak louder than words. Xtreme Dance speaks through hard work, high ethical standards and its actions. Most of your bloggers perform through diarrhea of the mouth. They definetly need to take some medication for their nasty diarrhea.

If I did not believe in what I was saying, I would not say it. If I did not believe I was right in this latest fiasco, I would go to another thread and change the subject.

I am not running from your 100 or 1000 bloggers. I know they are all wrong and out of line and I intend to challenge them for as long as they intend to challenge me.

I really don't need anyone to stick up for me including yourself. I only need to have the right to defend myself. You for the most part have afforded me that right. The right to free speech. Thank you for extending me that right and I never take that right for granted. It is not always there in our society. As long as I have that right, I can handle every single one of your bloggers one by one or all in one shot. I am not intimidated by numbers. Neither was the Napergate Man who proved everyone wrong when it was all done and said. Think about that for a second, Moderator Chris!

Be on whose ever side you choose to be on. But be ready to face the music when the truth all comes to surface. As you can see it is coming to surface smoothly and surely.

The fact that so many people have to dispute everything I say is a sure sign that what I am saying is meaningful....that it probably has consequences to their lives...or they would not be interested and somewhere else. That is my opinion for publication. Thank you!

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 11, 2009 3:20 PM

When I was in Myrtle Beach, your blog side was almost at a crawl. I generate a lot of interest on your blog site even though many wrongfully construe it in a negative manner. Many allege that I am a bad guy, but they love to debate me. I also love to debate them but wish they would keep it civil with no personal attacks. I don't care what anyone says, I don't start the personal attacks. I know you know that Moderator Chris and even our resident Prosecutor JQP has admitted that.
**************************

Totally untrue. Like I said when you first returned, things were so nice while you were gone because no one was attacking anyone else. Look at the quality of the posts during that time:

About 60 entries on What sort of behavior drives you nuts?
About 20 entries on Bicyclists on the danger list?
About 20 entries on Dugan Pleads Guilty
About 10 entries on the Do you agree with protesters

Yes, there is more now because you generate a lot of traffic concerning YOU--and of course that's what it's all about isn't it? YOU. The quality of what you post sucks.

MHB wrote:

I don't care what anyone says, I don't start the personal attacks. I know you know that Moderator Chris and even our resident Prosecutor JQP has admitted that.

Again, I have to correct you about this. My statement about your not starting the personal attacks had to do with one set of exchanges on one topic several months ago; it was not a general observation about your behavior on Potluck. You are hardly a model of self-restraint when it comes to personal attacks.

-JQP

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 11, 2009 12:24 PM

Again, my daughter became an issue because my bashers made her an issue while I was privately and anonymously seeking advice from Former WV Mom. WV Mom mentioned she had a son who ran Cross Country and was good at it. No one attacked her son. No one had a right to attack her son. No one had a right to attack my daughter either.

***********************

No one bashed him because there was nothing to bash. He did nothing wrong. Model citizen.

And, no one bashed your daughter. They bashed you for being a bad parent. And the more you bring up the subject, the more it unfortunately brings her into the limelight. If you want it to stop, stop bringing up the subject.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 11, 2009 12:24 PM
I can not imagine the high she and her teammates experienced. They were all so high they could not stop crying after it was announced they won by the national panel of judges assembled.

__________

CIJ, I would try to use another word when describing their euphoria! Anyone else find this ironic? (sorry if I stole your line "Clever Irony").

By Chris Magee, moderator on August 11, 2009 12:50 PM
CIJ, this blog isn't some reality show, "Survivor: Potluck," where you compete to see who is the last one standing. If you measure success by how many people you can drive away, that's a big part of the problem right there.

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I agree this is not a reality show. I like to use figures of speech and I hope they are not going over bloggers heads since many appear stuck in Kindergarten as you described.

I have no plans to bury anyone in a mass funeral. All I am trying to do is systematically expose the credibility of those who constantly attack my credibility and bury theirs.

I believe I am making good headway despite the fact it is 100 bloggers against ME on your blog site. While you have at times stopped the stampede against me when it gets out of control(thank you), you look the other way initially and allow it to boil over. Personally, I don't see you having "enough" courage(no offense intended...you do have lots of courage but not enough) to go against hundreds of your bloggers when they are all wrong. I think you have an unfounded fear that they may leave since they whine and cry so much. Trust me, Moderator Chris no one is leaving your blog site. They are all addicted to your Blog Site and need to stroke their egos through their monikers that they love so much. I have always been about causes and not egos. That is what differentiates me immensely from the run of the mill blogger. I did my best not to be identified but I was finally identified late last year and became I guess a "personality" on your blog site instead of the bunch of multi anonymous people I enjoyed being. It was so much more peaceful for me while I promoted my issues and causes. In hindsight, identifying me as the Multi-Handle Blogger led to the mess we are in. I enjoyed using various handles and being "NO ONE" so I can focus on the causes that were dear to me such as high taxes and government corruption.

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(Have you seen the rage against Government on all the cable networks broadcast live today in town hall meetings across the country. Real people just like me have had it with government excess and high taxes...they are saying enough is enough. Most of your bloggers must be on the receiving end of the corruption to be on the side of wasteful government and constantly defending government and municipal officials.)

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If I had a dime for every time a blogger told me this is the last time I will ever talk to you, debate you or I am done with you, I would not have to work the stock market everyday between 830pm to 3pm to make a living and try to pay for my kid's activities, my health insurance and high real estate taxes. Thankfully, I paid off the house so it may be a little easier on me than others many of whom are in bankruptcy or foreclosure due to the drunken sailors who run this town, state and country. Maybe I should call them pirates instead of sailors as that seems much more fitting.

I am certainly not trying to drive anyone off your blog site. And I don't believe I have ever driven one single person off your blog site. Some lose their credibility after claiming they are Forensic Accountants and can not compute a simple math computation and may go away for a while. But I do believe they reincarnate themselves with a new handle and try to get a new start. So have no worries, Moderator. Reincarnation is the name of the game on your blog site.

It is really hard to differentiate the handwriting style of Kindergarten Children from one another so it is really hard to pick out who is who on your web site.

In my case it seems that I am a unique intelligent blogger(described by yourself) and apparently I can be picked out very easily due to my "intelligent posts." (Sorry if I have to occasionally sound conceited to make a point.....did not intend to) Therefore, I have no choice but to defend my reputation. I am really a humble person trying to defend my credibility while others continually change their monikers after I destroy their credibilities in order to get a fresh start.

Have no fear, Moderator Chris. I am driving no one away from your blog site. I came to a DEAD THREAD a few days ago that stated 243 posts. It now states 419. That is 176 hits. And that does not include the dozens that you deleted or did not register, because of maintenance problems, such as my response to Former WV Mom about the Aurora gang problem that I felt gave her a good explanation.

When I was in Myrtle Beach, your blog side was almost at a crawl. I generate a lot of interest on your blog site even though many wrongfully construe it in a negative manner. Many allege that I am a bad guy, but they love to debate me. I also love to debate them but wish they would keep it civil with no personal attacks. I don't care what anyone says, I don't start the personal attacks. I know you know that Moderator Chris and even our resident Prosecutor JQP has admitted that.

For fear of being accused of hijacking, I generally limit myself to comments on one thread and occasionally sneak on a second. If I could get the green light from you to blog on any thread that interests me, your hits on your blog site would increase 5-10 fold.

Since you are not willing to stop or comment on the constant accusations of hijacking threads, I am voluntarily limiting myself to comments on 2 threads or less.

(This post is intended for publication....for those who wonder why I may be saying this, it is because most times I send the Moderator "off the record" posts that are not for publication. The Moderator has never revealed anything I wrote to him off the record. He can be trusted with your secrets if you have any.)

MHB wrote:

All you are doing is playing the slicing and dicing game the Old Joe use to play. You are even using my own words of "slicing and dicing" quite often.

My apologies. I didn't realize you had copyrighted the term "slicing and dicing". You must have done it a long time ago, because I could swear I'd heard the term long before I ever started participating in Potluck, and had probably even used it a few times myself. Of course, memories can be faulty, which is a phenomenon you've so aptly personified. Moreover, I didn't think you'd object to my borrowing your terminology, since you've done so several times with me

And:

You are acting like this blog site is a Court of Law and that you are a Prosecutor dissecting my words so that you can find me guilty when I am innocent.

You changed your story midstream and then tried to pillory the other bloggers for the way they reacted to the now supposedly wrong information that you fed them. This is as clear as day, and doesn't require any slicing and dicing ©, or any redefinition of the word "is", to prove to any reasonable person with a basic command of the English language. I merely pointed this out. This is not a trial, but if it were, neither Daniel Webster, nor Clarence Darrow nor Johnny Cochrane, nor all three working together could get you off the hook. You've set this trap for yourself, and no amount of wiggling and squirming (nor dancing, if you will) will get you free. And if this makes me a prosecutor, then you are the Grand Inquisitor, because in your own mind you've tried, convicted (in your own mind, if not anywhere else), and burned at the stake far more bloggers with far less evidence.

For the record, I don't think your daughter's marijuana use is necessarily evidence that you are a bad parent, nor her a bad child. I also don't think we should lump every person who's ever engaged in underage drinking and/or used marijuana in the "loser" category; otherwise many prominent people, including our current President and his two immediate predecessors, qualify as losers. I do think this underscores how tall a mountain we set out to climb when we launched the war on drugs, and why we should cut the NPD and other law enforcement agencies some slack when their efforts fall short.

-JQP

By Anonymous ONE on August 10, 2009 10:21 PM
If you have a daughter you should be proud of her without needing any compliments from an anonymous web blog.

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Stooge One,
You apparently not only have no credibility but no comprehension. You must be aware that I am the longest surviving member of this blog site besides being the most active. Almost all bloggers I debated within the first few months of this blog site disappeared....of course the possibility exists they reincarnated themselves with new monikers to regain long lost credibility.

First, I do not have just one daughter but 2 and very proud of them both equally even though my oldest daughter never got beyond a regional while dancing for a different studio in Naperville. She did her best and that is all that matters to me. I also have 2 sons that I am very proud of even though they have not accomplished anything significant yet in the positive or negative.

Secondly, if you have been comprehending instead of reading, you would have been able to conclude that despite my 19 year old daughter winning a National Championship with her team in 2007 and 2008, I never came on this blog site and said a single word.

As you stated I was very proud of her and did not need the compliments of anonymmous bloggers from this blog site. We have a great support system in the real world of family, relatives, friends, neighbors and most importantly members of Xtreme Dance.

Than the issue becomes why was she introduced in this debate. If it was about getting her compliments which does not make sense since she is anonymous, I would have introduced her in 2007 and 2008.

The reason she was introduced in this debate is because I was seeking advice for her from Former WV Mom. Even though she gave me advice, I did question the advice she gave me. That does not mean I did not listen and try to apply part of it.

At that point you and others butted in our conversation and questioned whether I had a daughter. You were basically attacking my credibility since you implied I did not have a daughter and if you look at what I copied and pasted above, you are still implying like a fool that I may not have this daughter. Further, after many bloggers finally believed I had a daughter, they began questioning if she is a National Caliber Dancer again questioning my credibility. Some accused me of being a keyboard fanatic who goes nowhere and lives in a closet. Some accused me of having no life.

At that point I owned up to the fact that I had a son competing in the City Championship Finals for Swimming and a daughter competing in the National Dance Finals in Myrtle Beach and not living in a closet with a keyboard. I volunteered for the Swimming contests and spent equal time with each of my 2 kids involved with activities that specific weekend. My other 2 kids had nothing of significance happening. My oldest daughter was kind enough to baby sit for my dog so that I could make both events. She complained how hard that was on her. Little does she know that next time a kitten is coming with the dog. If she wants help with her graduate tuition she does not have a say in the matter of babysitting my pets.

Bloggers even doubted that I would go to Myrtle Beach so I sent 2 posts from Myrtle Beach so the Moderator who has shown expertise in IP tracking can verify I was there. I was even attacked for daring to take 10 minutes out of a one week vacation to send 2 posts. It is a damned if you do on this blog site and damned if you don't....worse than pit bulls who at times attack for no reason.

The only reason anonymous members of my family were brought into this blog site is to continue to destroy the credibility of those who constantly accuse me of lying even about such things as HAVING a daughter....very laughable.

So this was not about needing compliments for my daughter. Again, I was a blogger the last 2 times she won a National Championship in Ocean City, MD. and Las Vegas. Did I mention her even once? No I did not. Even our resident Blogger Prosecutor JQP who diagnoses and dissects every word I say would not be able to find a word said about her in 2007 or 2008. So this proves your theory wrong just like most of your other theories. Or should I call them lies?

My daughter will still be 19 by January 1, 2010 and thus will be able to compete for a 4th consecutive National Championship with Xtreme Dance Force. While I did not honestly feel this team could win a 4th in a row(my daughter was not on the 2006 Championship team) I now feel more confident they can pull a 5th in a row and my daughter can nail her 4th in row as a team performer.

It is very unfortunate that she was smoking cigs in 2006 and was demoted to the Alliance(A or second team of this studio) probably because she did not have the endurance necessary. The Dance Studio did the right thing. I never questioned their decision or discussed it with anyone. She got want she deserved. She reaped what she sowed.

I am hoping she stays straight and does not ever have a relapse. She has one full year left and I feel if we can keep her on the straight path she could be potentially one of those 3-5 that are recruited by the pros each year at these National Competitions. One of the former members of XTREME FORCE is now touring with Brittany Spears and my understanding paid very well. It was annouced at the 2009 ShowCase in St. Charles on Sunday by the Director of the Studio.

Again, my daughter became an issue because my bashers made her an issue while I was privately and anonymously seeking advice from Former WV Mom. WV Mom mentioned she had a son who ran Cross Country and was good at it. No one attacked her son. No one had a right to attack her son. No one had a right to attack my daughter either.

And despite being "imperfect" and influenced by massive peer pressure in Naperville, we have been able to salvage and keep her on the right path. It was not easy by any stretch of the imagination considering 92.4% of her peers were drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana based on USA Government Statistics that I provided on this blog site that I believe are more accurate than anything done locally since local officials are more concerned about the title of "Best Town to Raise Kids" and tend to pamper and/or embellish their numbers to win this award. My daughter's only crime was wanting to fit in and be like everyone else. She did not know better at the age of about 15 when this behavior apparently started due to rampant peer pressure by other teenagers in this town.

Xtreme Dance taught her it pays not to be like everyone else. It taught her it is better to work hard and get a high from a National Championship instead of a louzy joint. I got a high when they announced that XDF won the National Championship after 5 days of stiff competition. I got a high when I saw her hold the Gold Cup formally known as the World Victory Trophy as it was passed on to all team members to kiss, hold and cherish. I can not imagine the high she and her teammates experienced. They were all so high they could not stop crying after it was announced they won by the national panel of judges assembled. Maybe she and possibly her teammates finally realized that there are highs that are a million times better than highs you can get from alcohol and marijuana..

This is a good lesson for all kids in Naperville and our nation. It is a good lesson to parents that they should never give up on their kids. I am surprised this story has been painted in a negative light on this blog site instead of in the positive light it deserves. At least the Moderator seems to understand as he has deleted so much negativity off his blog site. Thank you so very much, Moderator Chris for not falling for BLOG PRESSURE which must be incredible on you at times. Always remember there is nothing wrong with going against the tide. Both Sam Walton and the Napergate Man went against the tide and they are National and Local Icons respectively. The swam upstream while everyone else swam downstream. The results speak for themselves.

In no way did I try to paint the Xtreme Dance Studio in a negative light even though I have been blamed for it. Yes, they were tipped off by bloggers or readers that they were being discussed here and are monitoring the thread. I have no concerns what so ever. My words speak for themselves and no attempt to twist, slice, dice or mutate them will be successful. So please stop trying. THE TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS IN THE END NO MATTER HOW LONG.

AND MY CONGRATULATIONS TO XTREME DANCE FORCE FOR A SUPERB 4 YEARS!
GO FOR 5 IN A ROW AND MAKE NAPERVILLE PROUD AGAIN!!!

Sybil,
Maybe it is YOU who needs to open his eyes. Do you not see how you are lashing out at all the other bloggers (with the exception of WV Mom), and now we are all 'clueless, bad parents' all because you spilled your guts, and then got some tough love that you don't want to deal with? If your daughter is in pain, then I truly sympathize with her and I hope you find her the proper medical treatment that will help her. I find it hard to believe that a chiropractic doctor or medical doctor cannot do what you claim your local drug dealer is able to do for your daughter. Please look for a legitimate resolution to her pain.
And by the way, do you wear a little Super Hero tee shirt with CIJ emblazoned on your chest? I think you should. You have certainly earned it.

"Former WV Mom's kids are truly the exception...or maybe they just don't tell her."
This has been something we have always talked about in our home. My daughter and son both chose not to drink before the age of 21 for a variety of reasons. 1: it's illegal. 2: both had made commitments to their athletic teams in high school and would not jeopardize their spots on those teams or their abilities to perform to their best abilities. 3: my son only saw stupidity at college with the drinking crowd, starting the first weekend he was there - it just wasn't appealing to him. Although he did have a good time with the pack of sharpie markers he had. (Some of the stories he had to tell about his randomly assigned roommate were pretty bad.) 4: my daughter's commitment as a Young Life leader means she has committed to hold herself to a higher standard than others and be a role model. 5: both have been remarkably open about what they have seen in relation to alcohol. 6: both take a lot of pride in doing the right thing. 7: family history - a paternal grandfather who died as a result of alcohol abuse and an uncle who was killed by a drunk driver on his way home from NCC basketball practice in 1972 (my son is named after him).

These conversations were not ones that waited until my kids hit the teen years. We were having conversations about this issue when they were very little, before they were even in school. I think this was a key strategy in why they made their choices. We didn't wait. The other key was that they really don't see their father or me drink much, other than my husband having an occasional beer with certain foods or me having a glass of wine with other foods. Alcohol has not been present in most social situations that we have been in. It's just not that important of a thing to us in general. We have a great time without it.

I am a parent who always stayed up until their kids got home and had conversations about where they had been, etc. (Which they also informed me of before they left.) But since most of the time they and their friends were in our home anyway, it was never an issue. And since we keep all of the pop, gatorades and juices in our basement refrigerator (no alcohol is kept in that one) my husband and I made frequent trips to the basement. We also installed a door at the top of the stairs that has windows on it, as opposed to a solid door. The basement is a much less private space as a result.

Can I guarantee that all of the cross country kids who came to our home for pasta parties did not drink at some time in high school? No. But I can guarantee that they did not do it at my house. They ate pasta, played ping pong and video games, were loud and obnoxious at times, but did not do anything illegal.

The 21 year old did have his first taste of alcohol at a family wedding in the past week. (He's kind of cheap, so the open bar was a good time for him to try something without wasting his money on it.) Since he is of legal age, it's not an issue. However he didn't like it. He said the one drink he had didn't taste that great and all it did was make him tired. No fun in that, so he said he didn't think he'd be having any on a regular basis. I don't think we will be having any issues with him becoming drunk. He seems to be like me, where one drink makes you want to curl up and take a nap, as opposed to some people who turn into the life of the party.

When it comes to stats on drinking and drugs, it would be better to look at local info as opposed to national. I think it does show that the majority of kids in this area are making pretty good choices. While it does not cover the actual "trying" of alcohol, it does cover tobacco, alcohol and drug use as regular behavior. There may be some kids who try it once, but don't drink as a regular behavior and maybe don't do it again after trying it once.

http://www.thepowerofchoice.info/
The Power of Choice APRIL 2009 Youth Survey
Number of District 203 and 204 youth surveyed=12,278

Results for Tobacco
-63% have never smoked a cigarette
-81% don't smoke
-87% have not smoked in the last 30 days
-88% prefer to date someone who does not smoke
-79% prefer to go to parties where people aren't smoking
-90% think that their parents find tobacco use by teenagers to be "not acceptable"

Results for Alcohol
-71% have not consumed alcohol in the past 30 days
-65% prefer to date someone who does not drink
-63% prefer to hang out with people who do not drink
-63% prefer parties where people aren't drinking alcohol
-80% think their parents find alcohol use by teenagers to be "not acceptable."

Results for Other Drugs
-77% never smoke marijuana
-96% never use crack cocaine
-97% never use heroin
-95% never use club drugs
-92% never use prescription drugs for non-medical reasons
-92% never use over-the-counter drugs for non-medical reasons

I've been watching this train wreck with as little comment as is humanly possible, while trying to figure out exactly how this one is spinning out of control. I do feel it necessary to comment on one specific part of one of Sybil's latest posts, however, since I think it is nearly as illustrative as anything he/she has written yet - of course, he/she will probably try to spin it to mean something else...

I took action and threatend (sic) all 50 of them while I was in a state of rage. Most of them left their shoes, sandals and flip flops in my house. To this day, they have not returned to pick them up.

Now, if I was in a circumstance where I went into my own basement and found 50 kids there drinking illegally and taking illegal drugs, rest assured that I would be very, very upset. Of course, it's worth pointing out that this has never happened to me, because when we have kids over, I'm continually present, in and out of the party.
But, bloggers, can you imagine the level of rage required to have the kids leave their belongings behind, never to return. I do worry for you, Sybil, and I mean that in a real way. As you're spinning out of control here in an anonymous venue, and oversharing on a regular basis, how can this not simply be a manifestation of your normal, day-to-day life and personality. Far be it from me to a attempt a diagnosis as regards a semi-anonymous internet personality, particularly for someone who has donned multiple personalities in the past, leading us to think it perfectly possible that this is also entirely fictional, but I do think that our Sybil might need to speak with someone about all of this, and the rage and anger. Truly.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 11, 2009 1:00 AM

Now I find it remarkable that Former WV Mom can have 60 kids in her basement that are drug and alcohol free when according to this national survey 92.4% of kids drink. That is why I doubted her. That is why I thought she was naive. Maybe I was wrong...who knows...I was not there. But I was in my basement and saw an entirely different story with my own 2 eyes that this survey backs up.
***********************

You see, this is the problem. When Former WV Mom says that she had 60 kids in her basement and that she had control of what was happening, you "doubted her". Why? Has Former WV Mom said anything on this blog that we should doubt her veracity? Not that I know of. She said it, and I believed it. Maybe some or all of the 60 drank alcohol in their lifetimes. But, they weren't doing it at HER house because SHE had HER house under control because SHE said so and I believe HER. Just like I believe YOU when YOU say that YOU had 50 kids in YOUR basement and they were smoking marijuana and drinking. I have no reason to doubt your veracity on this subject either. Instead of doubting Former WV Mom, you should have complimented her on her parenting ability. I do.

MHB: I can tell you for sure - if you had threatened one of my children while in a state of rage, no matter what they had done, the police would be paying you a visit.

As for drugs and alcohol abuse by young people, yes it is a problem. yes - it is happening all to much and all to frequently. As for it happening in Naperville, because of affluence - well Id guess it happens anywhere - in rich towns and poor towns. When I was growing up, in a lower middle class community, there were kids drinking and doing drugs, including grass, coke, speed, LSD, and heroin.

Your wandering diatribes do not help you at all - and saying things like "line you up in the mass grave for burial" (what an endearing and friendly statement) just cause people to move further and further away from you on the bench. The anger and rage that flows from you is incredible. I hope you don't own any guns.

Wow, just wow.

I'm waiting for Allen Funt to show up, making sense of all of this nonsense. Punked?

By Anonymous on August 10, 2009 10:07 PM
John Q. Public on August 10, 2009 5:20 PM

You have to understand what's happening. He got hammered bad by everyone, from the moderator on down. Not because of what his daughter or the dance team did, but because of his poor parenting. He tried to impress on Former WV Mom and the rest of us how great his parenting skills were, but he wound up showing just the opposite.

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Hey Mr. Anonymous,

The article I just posted in response to similar allegations by Anonymous One in fact shows I am not only a good parent but an aware parent. I am not a parent in denial as 92.4% of you are if you have kids in high school. Maybe 99% of you if you have kids under the age of 21.

When I checked on the 50 Naperville kids in my basement, I found all of them drinking and smoking marijuana. I was upstairs and the aroma of the marijuana was coming through my A/C and Heating Vents.

I took action and threatend all 50 of them while I was in a state of rage. Most of them left their shoes, sandals and flip flops in my house. To this day, they have not returned to pick them up.

That is why I will never allow any kids in my basement again. I learned from my mistake. The kids had taken the alarms off my basement windows and transported the booze and marijuana through them. My daughter was 15 at the time and very naive and immature.

Now I find it remarkable that Former WV Mom can have 60 kids in her basement that are drug and alcohol free when according to this national survey 92.4% of kids drink. That is why I doubted her. That is why I thought she was naive. Maybe I was wrong...who knows...I was not there. But I was in my basement and saw an entirely different story with my own 2 eyes that this survey backs up.

Maybe WV Mom had a way of getting the 7.6% per cent that don't drink in her basement by the 12th grade Everything is possible. Maybe I was wrong and she can get the 1% or 2% that don't drink and are under 21. I really don't know. I do believe however that she is a remarkable woman.

As far as the rest of you, I don't know what to say except quit believing it is the other kid and not your kid. I think that is good advice for now. What say you, Moderator if you are willing to express an opinion and risk the wrath of your army of bloggers as I do day and night?

========================================================================================================================================

PS. I suspect because Naperville is rich and teenagers have access to a lot of money, the problem is worse here than the rest of the country. The kids are beyond themselves and doing heroin and overdozing and dying. I have learned of 5 such cases that took place in the last 6 months just in the last few days. Some were right outside of Naperville's borders....the others were right inside the borders. One was in unincorporated Naperville on the NE side of town. Those are cases I confirmed. Only God knows how many cases I am clueless about. Only the NPD knows the true numbers and they are not releasing them in order not to jeopardize our chance for competing for the "Best Place to Raise Kids in America." Now that contest is the true FAUX based on press releases and self-promotion. Little doubt here. Trust and believe in ME, your Citizen Journalist!

Of course you guys are going to hate an Investigative Journalist who spills the bad news in your lap. Who uncovers what the City of Naperville is hiding. Need I have to remind anyone that the Napergate Man was once hated for uncovering the real happenings in town that were never reported in the Naperville Sun.

Let us get out of denial and mover forward. Stop using me as your punching bag when I expose that most of you at least statistically are bad parents whom are clueless as to where your kids are at and what they are ingesting. You need to smell the java beans sooner than later.

By Anonymous ONE on August 10, 2009 10:21 PM
Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 10, 2009

__________________________________

I think that many would be surprised by your claim that 70-90% of high school students drink alcohol and/or smoke marijuana. If true, it is a sad commentary on the state of our students. Thankfully, it is attributed to you, which we have come to understand won't have any supported proof other than your speculation. Perhaps you have a friend who is a policeman that you "coincidently" bumped into? He let you in on this "little secret" about Naperville's kids being drug and alcohol users?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is to bury your credibility and line you up in the mass grave for burial with all the other stooges. I told you one by one I am taking each and everyone of you down. And you are making it way way to easy for ME.

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The national school-based Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) is a component of the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System, which periodically measures the prevalence of priority health-risk behaviors among youth through comparable national, state, and local surveys (3). A three-stage sample design was used to obtain a representative sample of 11,631 students in grades 9-12 in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. Students were asked whether they had used alcohol, marijuana, and any form of cocaine during their lifetime and during the 30 days preceding the survey. Students also were asked whether they had had five or more drinks of alcohol on one occasion during the 30 days preceding the survey and how old they were when they first consumed alcohol or used marijuana or cocaine.

Of all students in grades 9-12, 88.1% had consumed alcohol in their lifetime, and 58.6% had consumed alcohol at least once during the 30 days preceding the survey (Table 1). Male students (62.2%) were significantly more likely than female students (55.0%) to have consumed alcohol during the 30 days preceding the survey. Students in grade 12 were significantly more likely to have had a drink of alcohol in their lifetime (92.4%) and to have had a drink of alcohol during the 30 days preceding the survey (65.6%) than were students in grade 9 (82.6% and 50.1%, respectively).

More than one third (36.9%) of all students had consumed five or more drinks of alcohol on at least one occasion during the 30 days preceding the survey (which was the survey definition for episodic heavy drinking) (Table 1). Male students (43.5%) were significantly more likely than female students (30.4%) to report heavy drinking on one or more recent occasions. The proportion of students who drank heavily on at least one occasion increased significantly by grade of students from 9th (27.7%) and 10th (35.7%) to 12th grade (44.0%).

Almost one third (31.4%) of all students had used marijuana at least once, and 13.9% had used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (Table 1). Male students were significantly more likely to have used marijuana in their lifetime (35.9%) and to have used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (16.9%) than were female students (27.0% and 11.1%, respectively). Students in grade 12 were significantly more likely to have used marijuana in their lifetime (42.2%) and to have used marijuana during the 30 days preceding the survey (18.5%) than were students in grade 9 (20.6% and 9.5%, respectively).

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I cut this article off when it starting going into cocaine use as this is absolutely sickening.

But check this part of the article out that I am highlighting.

========================================================================================================================================

Students in grade 12 were significantly more likely to have had a drink of alcohol in their lifetime (92.4%) and to have had a drink of alcohol during the 30 days preceding the survey (65.6%) than were students in grade 9 (82.6% and 50.1%, respectively).

========================================================================================================================================

Keep in mind that my daughter is 19 and a sophomore in college.
If 92.4% of high school student had alcohol illegally by the 12th grade, what percentage do you think would have tried it illegally by their sophomore year in college. How about 98-99%....just an unsubtantiated guess on my part.

Imagine 82.6% drinking by the 9th grade with over 50% in the last 30 days.

Former WV Mom's kids are truly the exception...or maybe they just don't tell her.

As far as the rest of you who claim, I can not parent, here is what I have to say to you.

I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND YOU ARE ALL CLUELESS AS TO WHAT YOUR KIDS ARE DOING. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS ARE AT RIGHT NOW?
Probably not!

WHO DO YOU THINK IS THE BETTER PARENT....You or Me?

And really this all shows your attacks on the Dance Studio for having one of 250 kids to known to have abused alcohol/marijuana was the most ridiculous and insane thing imaginable. They have an impeccable record. 100% alcohol and marijuana free now that my daughter is A and M FREE. Of course, I don't know that for a fact but it is possible....maybe even probable.

In your face Anonymous One. Stick with your handle so I can continue to chop away at your imaginary credibility.

I am a better Citizen Investigative Journalist than you all give me credit for. More intelligent and honest than most bloggers here.

Thank you very much!

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 10, 2009 1:52 AM
You folks consider any teenager that drinks alcohol or smokes marijana a loser. At least 70% do that in Naperville High Schools...some say 90% at one time or another.

You have called my daughter every name in the book for seeking some advice anonymously for her from Former WV Mom in a 2 way conversation using a handle I hoped would not be detected.

Maybe I am not the only one in Naperville with challenging kids.

BTW, thanks for the congratulations....I felt that part was sincere in your post

__________________________________

I think that many would be surprised by your claim that 70-90% of high school students drink alcohol and/or smoke marijuana. If true, it is a sad commentary on the state of our students. Thankfully, it is attributed to you, which we have come to understand won't have any supported proof other than your speculation. Perhaps you have a friend who is a policeman that you "coincidently" bumped into? He let you in on this "little secret" about Naperville's kids being drug and alcohol users?

Check the archives "Mr. Hardy Boy Detective" I never called your daughter anything that you didn't call her yourself. You said she was "difficult" has "used alcohol" and has "used marijuana". You also claimed that she had some good friends who have used heroin, but that she told them to stop. Shame on you for bringing your own daughter into the conversation, for you to try to change the story now is laughable. When Chris deleted your daughter from the thread I was glad and thought we were done with it, yet you have posted no less than 4 additional posts where you mention her again. If you don't want her to be the issue then stop using her in your references.

And as for your line, "Maybe I am not the only one in Naperville with challenging kids." I suspect you are not, but you do seem to be the only one who goes onto an anonymous blog to ask for help and advice because you don't have any ideas of your own.

No problem on the compliment, you should be proud of your daughters accomplishments. I would venture to say that everyone who has kids are equally proud of their kids efforts in a variety of things. Maybe nothing as dramatic as a national championship in dance, but I'll bet just as proud. I don't particularly care who you are or who you pretend to be. If you have a daughter you should be proud of her without needing any compliments from an anonymous web blog.

And stop with the claim that you never attack first. You keep writing it as if it were true. I, (and many others) have only responded to you based on what you write first. Moderator Chris had it right when he said you don't get to rewrite history. My criticisms and postings to you have always been in response to something you have posted first!!!

John Q. Public on August 10, 2009 5:20 PM

John,

You have to understand what's happening. He got hammered bad by everyone, from the moderator on down. Not because of what his daughter or the dance team did, but because of his poor parenting. He tried to impress on Former WV Mom and the rest of us how great his parenting skills were, but he wound up showing just the opposite. So, the solution was to change history. First, he tried to get the moderator to purge the thread of the negative comments. When that didn't work because the moderator only deleted a few posts, he had to reinvent what happened by posting long harangues trying to change what happened. Case in point where he said he was asking WV Mom for advice, which never happened. He believes if he repeats himself enough times, he will have muddied the water sufficiently that no one will recall his faux pas. One of his classical cases of diverting attention from himself in hopes that no one will remember what happened.

By Conscientious Observer on August 10, 2009 3:28 PM

By the way, I really don't care who you are in real life. We're all anonymous here and it's fine with me if it stays that way. I just notice that YOU frequently bring up the length of time you have been posting and the fact that you are winning in the evading being identified game.

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Thank you for not caring for who I am in real life. We both agree that we are anonymous and we would both like it to stay that way. It is nice to agree.

Yes, I bring up the length of time I have not been detected when people like the Professor and Laugh out Loud discuss detailed plans of how to reveal my idnetity. That bothers me. Previously, I was dealing with Experienced who was also very obsessed. I just want to discourage people so we can get back on topic and debate and discuss. That is my only motive for saying that. I really do not want to have to say that.

As you say no one should care who I am. I am basically a nobody ordinary Naperville Citizen who strives for lower taxes and a stoppage of government waste. Nothing more or less. I am a taxpaying homeowner with kids, a dog and a brand new kitten my daughter found abandoned in the back yard. I especially love children and animals. That is all people need to know about me....so for the others please lay off.

And my favorite blogger is Former WV Mom. My second favorite is JQP who was my original favorite until he started acting like a Prosecutor in a Courtroom. He is acting like this blog site is a repeat of the Napergate Trials. Thank God this is all FREE and not costing the taxpayers a penny!!!

By Conscientious Observer on August 10, 2009 3:28 PM
Sybil, Your posts are redundant and exhaustive to read, so I no longer read them in their entirety. You call yourself a self-appointed journalist, yet you are the least professional journalist I could ever imagine. You hyjack threads to post about yourself and your issues and then when someone has a difference of opinion you have a hissy and post ad nauseum at all hours of the day, cutting and pasting and carring on.

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1. This is not required reading. No one is forcing you to read. Read as much as you like or don't read at all.

2. I do consider myself a Citizen Investigative Journalist. I never said I was a professional journalist. I am a volunteer. I know I am not of the caliber of the Napergate Man and I never said I was. But there is nothing wrong with having an idol and striving to be like him one day. And in the process, trying to make a little difference in this wonderful town of Naperville.

3. I do not hijack threads or airplanes. When this matter became a little personal, JQP, recommeded we come here to discuss the issue. I was thinking the same as JQP and he beat me to the punch this one time of moving to a DEAD THREAD. The thread was stuck at 243 for quite a few days so we came here to avoid allegations of hijacking. And here we are listening to your utter nonsense about hijacking.(Would you agree with me JQP that we did not hijack a thread? How about you, Moderator Chris?) Is anyone requiring you to be here? Is there a limit of space as in a newspaper editorial section where I may be hurting your chances of being heard? This is OPEN TOPIC FORUM. Feel free to discuss any issue your heart desires. You have CHOSEN to discuss my "personal issues," so why are you complaining....dah! Did someone point a gun at your head or hold a knife to your neck and demand you be on this formerly DEAD THREAD? If so please turn them into the NPD ASAP?

You and many others would not allow my issue to remain personal between Former WV Mom and myself. I was blogging under the handle Anonymous to avoid being where we are today. I am sure the Moderator understands who is responsible for this nuttiness.

4. I absolutely have no problem with people who have differing points of view. This is exactly why we are here...to debate and discuss. My issue is the unrelentess personal attacks against me no matter which thread or topic I choose to blog on.

It is the same exact scenario each and every time. Moderator Chris puts up an interesting topic I like. I begin blogging about the topic under a new handle. The minute the bloggers figure out it is me, it is like a swarm of bees attacking ME. Yes, it is my fault I am not carrying a bottle of bee spray. I do apologize for that.

5. When I posted about Napergate you and/or others complained. When I posted about Big Fat Pensions you and/or others complained. When I posted about high taxes you and/or others complained. When I posted about police OT you and/or others complained. When I posted about the MidEast Crisis you and/or others complained. When I posted about Omnia you and/or others complained. Etc. etc. etc. None of these issues were about Me, Myself or I. They were the residents and taxpayers issues. It sounds like you are chronic complainers and whiners...still in Kindergarten as the Moderator so succintly phrased it. I could have never said it better myself. He is on record as calling me INTELLIGENT and also on record calling you bashers KINDERGARTEN CHILDREN. Try to comprehend that if you can. (Sorry I had to quote you again Moderator...I know you don't like that....but a blogger has got to do what a blogger has got to do to help these kids find their way out of Kindergarten.)

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Now you are ALL complaining because I seeked advice from Former WV Mom for my child and calling it a "personal issue." You all should have butted out of the "personal" conversation between her and I and we would not be here. No one personally invited you to our "private" discussion. You invited yourselves and are complaining about coming to the party. Is this utter insanity or psychosis? Are your faculties upstairs still working? Are the bearings still fastened? When did you last oil them? Seriously, what is wrong with YOU!

Why do you give me so much ammunition and fire power to make a FOOL of you, Consientious Observer? Why do you do this to yourself? Are you not embarrassed with your dumbness? All you folks are doing is allowing me to bury you 6ft. under. I told you all I was not even going to spend a red cent on a shovel. I am keeping my promise. You are digging your own graves one after the other in a nice row almost ready for a mass burial. Each and everyone one of you who has chosen to participate in these PERSONAL ATTACKS.

Good Riddens and may God have Mercy on all of your Souls!

John Q. Public,

All you are doing is playing the slicing and dicing game the Old Joe use to play. You are even using my own words of "slicing and dicing" quite often.

You are acting like this blog site is a Court of Law and that you are a Prosecutor dissecting my words so that you can find me guilty when I am innocent.

I was discussing an issue somewhat privately and you and/or many bloggers decided to tell Former WV Mom who I was and then it went from there and unfortunately the Xtreme Dance studio was brought in this mess. I became exhausted of people accusing me of lying and fabricating so I decided it was time to expose the credibility of my attackers which was zero to zilch.

Not only was their credibility zero but they scooped to levels I have never seen in my life when they started attacking the best Dance Studio in the nation and its 250 plus students. Totally uncalled for. I am just pleased the Moderator deleted all their ugly posts.

This story is very simple. I have an imperfect daughter who went a little astray. Many people have worked very hard to get her back on track. It has a very happy ending. We got her back on track and she is a 3 time National Champion. She will be attending her second year of college next year. She got 3 A's and 2 B's in the second semester of her freshman year.

While she has no chance of making the pros as about 5 of these Xtreme Dancers do, her experience on the Xtreme Dance Force (XDF)National Team has been nothing but out of this world. She has been blessed to have been part of this group for the last several years. As I have said the peer pressure there is very positive compared to the negative peer pressure in the schools and streets of Naperville. (note Former WV Mom I have no problem crticising my own town. I am not picking or singling out Aurora....so please don't be so defensive if Aurora is mentioned in a truthful manner but in bad light.)

Can any one person see a positive in this story? I suspect Former WV Mom can probably see a positive and happy ending. Why do we have to look at every thing in a NEGATIVE LIGHT instead of a POSITIVE LIGHT. Why do we have to be TIGERS instead of KITTENS?

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Former WV Mom,

BTW, Former WV Mom the 6-7 week kitten is adapting very well. All your advice has worked. While our dog treated her as an enemy the first day, she is now neutral towards her. I suspect in a few days they will be buddies....or at least I am hoping.

The kitten has bit me once and clawed my ear a second time. Both times she drew blood. She is only about 2 pounds and drawing blood already. She is lightening quick and there is no chance to get away in time. I don't think I would advise anyone to raise a 400 lb. tiger in their home which is supposedly from the same family of mammals.

Do you know how I can stop this biting and clawing. The pet shop said not to declaw her till 6 months when I bought the supplies from them. If she continues drawing blood, I may not be able to donate any blood in the next blood drive....lol....

I am still trying to replace the blood lost from the riptide in Myrtle Beach that slammed me down like a rag doll.

MHB,

Nowhere in my post did I say that Xtreme Dance Force has anything to apologize for. I said YOU should apologize for being the sole source of all of the supposed misinformation about your daughter's drug use and the role her dancing supposedly played in it. And, no you don't have to apologize for your daughter's mistakes. You just have to apologize for creating the impression...no, outright stating that the mistakes are ongoing, and that her excuse is that she needs to alleviate pain caused by her dancing. If none of this is true, and you never meant to say that she still uses marijuana, or that her dancing allegedly played any role in it, then you have no right to get angry at other bloggers for correctly interpreting what you wrote and/or for your failure to properly use the English language.

I don't know how you could have done such an egregiously bad job of interpreting what I said, because I thought it was pretty darn clear. The only conclusion I can come to is that you just don't want to own up to your very significant role in this fiasco, and so are resorting to straw man arguments to defend yourself.

-JQP

Sybil, Your posts are redundant and exhaustive to read, so I no longer read them in their entirety. You call yourself a self-appointed journalist, yet you are the least professional journalist I could ever imagine. You hyjack threads to post about yourself and your issues and then when someone has a difference of opinion you have a hissy and post ad nauseum at all hours of the day, cutting and pasting and carring on. Please learn that white space is your friend and that others may have differing opinions, and that's okay - it's not a personal attack on you until YOU hammer away at them in an attempt to see things your way.

By the way, I really don't care who you are in real life. We're all anonymous here and it's fine with me if it stays that way. I just notice that YOU frequently bring up the length of time you have been posting and the fact that you are winning in the evading being identified game. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it's because no one really cares? I honestly do not want to be mean to you, it's just that I feel you bring a lot of this on yourself.

By John Q. Public on August 10, 2009 12:12 PM
MHB wrote:
If, in fact, your daughter's drug use is a thing of the past, and has nothing to do with her dancing, then rather than screaming and yelling at everyone for the nasty things they've been saying about you, your daughter and Xtreme Dance Force, you should probably apologize for misleading everyone so badly.

========================================================================================================================================

First, Xtreme Dance said nothing and owes no one an apology for anything. How many times have I stated that I am not affiliated with this great Studio and do not speck for them. They have not uttered a word. They are plowing towards working towards their 5th National Championship. God Bless them and I hope they break John Wooden's Ucla record for consecutive championships.

Secondly, you want me to apologize to you that my daughter is imperfect because she tried marijuana some time in the past(weeks, months or years ago) to relieve some unbearable pain. I think that was wrongful behavior on her part.

Thirdly, since she has been on the Xtreme Force Team for over 3 years and was on this team that won 3 National Championships she in no way did anything to smear or endanger the reptuation of the top Dance Studio in the natiion.

Fourthy, the people running this Dance Studio have a nose for everything. Whether they knew she smoked cigs or marijuana 3 years ago, they knew her stamina or lung capacity was not that required of a National Champ. Despite her extreme talents at a very young age they had her on the second team known as the A team or Alliance.

MHB wrote:

When you dig up an old post it is the past and not the present. While I did believe she was still possibly using occasionally when I wrote that post, I had not caught her using in many months. I can smell marijauna on her if she does it. She lives at home.

I didn't need to dig very deep. That post is from August 3, one week ago today. Not exactly the distant past. If you had not caught her in many months, then why did you say seven days agog that she "does marijuana occasionally"? Or what changed in the past week (other than you getting raked over the coals by other bloggers about this, I mean) to lead you to conclude that her drug use is a thing of the past? And how, based on your own words, were we supposed to know that it was past? Words have meanings, my friend, and no matter how you try to slice and dice, you can't wiggle out of your culpability for giving everyone here the distinct impression that your daughter is an illegal drug user, and that her excuse for using illegal drugs is the pain she experiences from dancing. If, in fact, your daughter's drug use is a thing of the past, and has nothing to do with her dancing, then rather than screaming and yelling at everyone for the nasty things they've been saying about you, your daughter and Xtreme Dance Force, you should probably apologize for misleading everyone so badly.

And, from another post:

I take extreme measures to protect my identity knowing loose lips sink ships. Soon it will be 4 years that I have been afloat which is the time it takes a kid to get a college diploma. So I must be doing something right...are you listening JQP?

I am listening, but I don't think you're listening to me. At least, you have not been reading between the lines. Don't think that because nobody has explicitly identified you by name here that no one knows who you are.

And:

I was assigned my duty as a Journalist by Mr. Jim Lynch and Mr. Ted Slovick. I am simply carrying out my duties and responsibilities in the best and most honest way I know how to. Obviously, investigative journalists are not popular and were never meant to be popular. But they do try to tell the truth and the truth seems to hurt at times...especially when it pertains to government officials who love wasting taxpayer hard earned dollars.

You keep referring to yourself as an investigative journalist. I think it's time you learned the first rule of journalism: if your mother says she loves, check it out.

BTW, for the record, you are not the one that moved this discussion back to the Open topic blog. I am.

-JQP

This sounds all to much like "You started it! - No, you started it!" And so the credibility goes and goes and goes - no where - as usual.

By Laughing Out Loud on August 9, 2009 9:19 PM

And Sybil,
Don't you think it would be wise to take that route with your daughter rather than turn the other cheek while she uses illegal drugs? Doesn't she realize that smoking - whether it's cigarettes or pot - directly effects her lung capacity? As a dancer who puts hours a day toward her craft, why would she do something that would compromise her ability to dance...

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The problem here is everyone is exaggerating the situation and blowing it out of proportion.

I simply told Former WV Mom that my daughter had done marijuana occasionally. It was to the best of my knowledge in the past even though I may have not been clear or precise as I never thought I would be put under a microscope. She used to smoke cigs a couple of years ago and she quit. That I am 100% sure of as there have been no relapses in 18 months to 2 years. I was on her case every single day until she licked this problem....you could say parental pressure finally beat out peer pressure. When she did marijuana it was very occasional and apparently to relieve powerful pain because of a unique condition she has that your daughter does not have. You more than anyone else appear to understand the pain of dancing even with a healthy daughter.

I did not turn the other cheek. I did take her to doctors and chiropractors and she sees the latter consistently and unfortunately our insurance does not cover these chiropractic visits. A 1000 dollars a month for health insurance with huge deductibles it seems for nothing. Where are you Obama when we need you?

I think not qualifying for the 2006 Xtreme Force National Champion Team that won it all is what shook her up to the core and made her give up cigs. Yes, cigs will screw your lungs up. She eventually realized it. She paid a heavy price and learned. Should we condemn her forever for making a bad decision when she was an immature 15 year older or whatever age she was? Why are we so unforgiving as a society when one makes a mistake? I hate cigs but I am not out there condemning the 30% or whatever whom smoke. I feel bad for them and understand they are very addicted. It took a lot of determination for my daughter to lick this habit. I am very proud of her. That is why I get tears in my eyes when I watch her compete and win National Championships. It has not been an easy road but we have been up to the challenges. Is this not what life if about?

She qualified for the 2007-2009 Force National teams which was a feat in itself. And she went on to be a great team member and bring home 3 team National Championships. She did not let her team down. They did not let her down. Something went very right. They beat out every dance studio in the country. it was all documented on a live broadcast which was revealed on this blog site in advance.

These Dance Teams range from 20 to 60 individuals. Everyone has to perform perfectly or you will not be 1st out of 700 dance routines performed over 5 days by 50 finalist teams from across the country.

I don't think Xtreme Dance is going to kick anyone off a team that performs as well as my daughter. Obviously if and when she used marijuana to relieve unbearable pain it was not before dance competitions or it would have been very obvious in her dance routines. I doubt she could perform the level of perfection which was required to win National Championships. If and when she did use marijuana, she apparently used it at the appropriate time.(I am speculating as it was not done with my permisson and obviously behind my back.)

As I have discussed, I believe she is currently marijuana free and seeing the chiropractor much more often. The legal drugs you mention along with Ibuprofen are off the table for her unless she wants long term damage to her organs. She has had these pains for very long times and taken more than her fair share of these non-prescription counter medicines you describe. The Ibuprofen instructions in fine print warn you to stop after 10 days or consult with a doctor for fear of harmful effects or potential addictions I assume. I know because I recently massively strained my foot playing soccer and took them for 10 days before reading the fine print. I have been soaking my foot in ice water the last 20 days and it is almost 90% back. After the first 10 day period, there were days when the pain was really bad and I took an Ibuprofen here and there so I simply could walk places I had to walk to. I can not imagine the pain these dancers endure especially if they have a disability which is the case of my daughter. People should be respectful of others and need to understand my daughter has no clue I even blog about her. I take extreme measures to protect my identity knowing loose lips sink ships. Soon it will be 4 years that I have been afloat which is the time it takes a kid to get a college diploma. So I must be doing something right...are you listening JQP? So stop worrying about me every day. And remember I have fired many flares in the wrong direction to keep the enemy always heading in the opposite direction. You know what I did to your buddy Experienced who killed himself trying to figure out who I am. I sunk him. Have you heard from him recently to see if he was maybe able to jump ship in time and is alive on a remote island...lol... Just having a little fun and trying to lighten you folks up a bit. This is not World War III. We are simply debating and discussing and need to be civil.

Back on the serious subject. I suspect when we finish our research and consult with enough doctors and chiropractors, she will be prescribed the synthetic marijuana drug Marinol which is legal by an MD. It does not have the tar(4 times the level of cigs) and other nasty ingredients marijuana has.

I think the situation is being handled very well. I know you are a new arrival due to your comments. I hope you understand the scenario by now. Many bloggers have blown the situation completely out of proportion and even attempted to defame a studio and every dancer in the studio over what amounts to almost to a minor problem....an imperfection in a human being.

The situation is being twisted and turned simply because bloggers have hostility towards ME. Some of the insane bloggers on this site would attack me even if I were just elected President of the USA or appointed to be the next Pope of the Vatican or the Secretary of the United Nations General Assembly.

These bloggers accused me of not have a daughter, let alone a daughter who dances. So I had to let the ear of the rabbit out of the hat to show them how ridiculous they were being with their implied lies and insinuations.

I am sure no one on this blog site after the exchanges we have had, doubts that I have not only a daughter but a 3 time National Champion daughter that I am very proud of. I guess she is being attacked because she is imperfect. The great folks at the Dance Studio are capable of dealing with imperfections. That is why I love them so much even though I hardly know them. They are unbelievable folks.

While I know they are also clueless to who this parent is, I know they have been tipped of to this blog site, and are very supportive of what this parent is saying....especially in regards to the lack of coverage by the Sun of this National Championship. And they did become aware that they were being libeled unfairly on this blog site and I am sure they are very happy that Moderator Chris took the necessary and appropriate action in removing all the libelous posts against the studio and its dancers that were BLATANTLY FALSE.
They are intelligent people and can tell who has his heart in the studio and cares about them and who does not. They can tell who is a supporter of the studio from who is not. They can tell the trouble makers from the non-trouble makers. I am sure they know that regardless of what happened my intentions were noble and in no way did I attempt to hurt the studio.

Therefore I successfully accomplished my goal of proving all the hostile bloggers wrong. And I am sure some were trying to get clues to identify me. The 4 day haystack that was available to them at the Norris Center in St. Charles is now gone and dismantled. Therefore, I accomplished my goal of telling the truth, proving most of these bloggers lie and distort, and successfully remained Anonymous.

It has been a great weekend!

Now let us get over this obsession of trying to find out who I am and simply blog about the subjects on the threads or anything that suits you on Open Topic Thread. Is that a whole lot to ask? And let us keep it civil.

And remember I never attack first but I do have a bad habit of counter-attacking when the attacks persist. And my counter-attacks are really not that pleasant. Why would anyone in his right mind want to go there and play the movie all over again? The movie is older than a broken record....a dying parrot. What more can I say?

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PS. And once again I need to emphasize I in no way have any affiliation with this great Xtreme Dance Studio and its great ownership, managers, directors, and teachers. I have had no role or part in their massive success the last 4 years. I am not authorized to speak for them and do not speak for them. I only have their best interest at heart. And I suspect they know that even though they have no clue who I am.

I can not emphasize enough that I am here as a Citizen Journalist trying to cover a great story about this Xtreme Dance Studio that the Naperville Sun chose not to cover. I have covered other stories like pension problems, police OT, high taxes, government waste, and the bankruptcy of Seven Bridges. I have covered international topics like the Gaza War and the Israel-Palestinian conflict. I have dug up the history of Napergate Man and his 3500 supporters and disclosed it here to the new residents that were not living in this town a decade ago. That is who I am.....a volunteer Citizen Investigative Journalist for the Naperville Sun. I was assigned my duty as a Journalist by Mr. Jim Lynch and Mr. Ted Slovick. I am simply carrying out my duties and responsibilities in the best and most honest way I know how to. Obviously, investigative journalists are not popular and were never meant to be popular. But they do try to tell the truth and the truth seems to hurt at times...especially when it pertains to government officials who love wasting taxpayer hard earned dollars.

And let us not forget the Napergate Man was the most unpopular man in Naperville when he was an Investigative Journalist digging goods on City Officials and publishing them in his Napergate ads. Ironically, the only issue that most of the bloggers and I appear to agree on is the Napergate Man after history has been written and recorded was a good and honorable man. I can't think of anything else we have agreed on in 3.5 years. I guess that is why the debate is ongoing and fiery most of the times. Like the Napergate Man, I am not here to win a popularity contest. Obviously the chance of that happening is about the same chance that someone will discover and reveal my identity....zero and zilch. I am simply here to expose the truth and sometimes the truth appears very painful to most bloggers for reasons unbeknownest to me. Maybe you all also need to be on Marinol to deal with the pain the truth inflicts on your souls.

By Anonymous on August 9, 2009 10:50 PM
I think the moral of all of this may be "you reap what you sow."

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I could not agree with you more. The hostile bloggers on this blog site have been on a vicious campaign to destroy my credibility.

They attempted to use the issue of my daughter to destroy my personal credibility. I had to unfortunately release a few minor details which I would rather not have released, but they were necessary to make sure they "reap what they sow." And the strategy worked. They have no credibility left. Their reputations are shot. They lost the respect of their fellow bloggers when they started attacking children of a Dance Studio who never said a word to them. Moderator Chris garbaged their posts. You can certainly say they "reaped what they sowed." Very good analogy, Anonymous.

Again some people on this site are stupid enough to think the majority is always right. The Napergate Man proved this theory did not hold water but how quickly people forget. He did not care that a whole town had joined City Hall against him. He plowed full force and proved them all wrong.

He is my idol and I am determined to take away the credibility of all those who continue to spew lies against me. Just watch and see. A little more time may be needed in order that they dig their own graves. I do not have time to go buy a shovel to dig their graves for them. Patience is a virtue. I have been at this for 3.5 years and getting stronger by the day. Please have no doubts about my determination to take on the Kindergarten Boys. They are a bunch of softies....softer than Charmin toilet paper and easily squeezable.

CIJ
Nice of you to use Oak Brook as an example. Oak Brook is going broke and may start taxing soon. Oak Brook is having to lay-off staff and cut hours.....

Maybe you should you should check out a town before using it as an example....... see Daily Herald link

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=308451&src=109

I said like...you can look at other towns that have still raised their taxes similiar to yours.

Ummm a counter attack is still an attack. I see what is going on. You never heard your mother saying I don't care who threw the first punch or don't stoop to their level ETC, ETC, ETC! OMG! So then you are no better than them.

By John Q. Public on August 9, 2009 10:28 PM

MHB wrote (italics mine):

One of our kids, the one that is a National Champion Dancer, does marijuana occasionally. The more pressure we put on her, the more she goes the other way.
Note your use of the present tense when you said that your daughter does marijuana. You definitely did not present this as a problem your daughter had in the past.

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When you dig up an old post it is the past and not the present. While I did believe she was still possibly using occasionally when I wrote that post, I had not caught her using in many months. I can smell marijauna on her if she does it. She lives at home.

Something happened to her in recent weeks that I believe finally changed her for good. Only time will tell if she ever has a relapse but I do feel confident she will not. And I am no longer going to be too personal and give details since I do not feel most bloggers are sincere in caring and helping on this blog site...with the exception of Former WV Mom and a handful of others.

And you, JQP, are the one who advises about not giving details. I think you are correct and I am taking your advice. I like huge haystacks that protect my anonymity. The bigger the better. I AM SURE YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN. Thanks!

By Anonymous ONE on August 9, 2009 9:52 PM
Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 9, 2009 3:17 PM

Let's just say that I strongly disagree with your characterization that 70% of Naperville high school students are losers. Congratulations on your daughters dance accomplishments you must be very proud. I for one agree to keep your family out of the discussion as long as you keep ours out of yours as well (70% losers!!).

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This is not my characterization. You folks consider any teenager that drinks alcohol or smokes marijana a loser. At least 70% do that in Naperville High Schools...some say 90% at one time or another. I know from some unfortunate basement experiences. I still have dozens of shoes and flip flops of those who I kicked out many years ago as souvenoirs upon making a discovery.

You have called my daughter every name in the book for seeking some advice anonymously for her from Former WV Mom in a 2 way conversation using a handle I hoped would not be detected.

And really what are you worried about if your children do not smoke dope or drink alcohol. Why are you worried about this 70% characterization if you are not part of it? Have your kids maybe experimented as other kids and you are possibly in denial about it? If you are not part of the group why are you concerned about me bringing your family in the discussion. Are you about to come out of the closet and tell us some truth?

Maybe I am not the only one in Naperville with challenging kids.

BTW, thanks for the congratulations....I felt that part was sincere in your post.

By Laughing Out Loud on August 9, 2009 9:19 PM
Chris,
Is there any way Sybil could have his/her own thread so s/he could ramble incessantly while the rest of us could carry on conversations and give opinions without every thread being hyjacked by this person? I know you probably can't do that, but I can dream, right?

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You don't have to dream. I was on the the "Driving Nuts Behavior" thread and you all accused me of hijacking that thread. I returned it to you all and left.

I noticed this thread was dead so I came to "talk to myself" and you all joined me. It appears most of you have loose bearings and are unable to carry conversations with each other since you are all robots that think alike...lol...

There are 9 other threads on the Main Page that I am not using with one exception today to get a dead thread moving again...help Chris out a little with getting some more hits on this blog site. There are over 2000 dead threads in the archives that could be livened up. It appears unfortunately that only person whom can get a thread rolling is ME. Call it hijacking if you like. I bet Moderator Chris knows what I am talking about from observation.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As far as identifying me you all had your chance. There were 4000 spectators over the 4 days and 250 dancers participated of whom over 70 were 19 years old. About another hundred dancers are not yet good enough to participate. You had a chance to come and try to tie me an Anonymous Person to my daughter another Anonymous Person. I am not a mathmetician but the ODDS of that are astronomical.

Neither my daughter or I discuss our problems with the dance studio or its officials. They are personal problems we take care of on our own. Our medical records have not been provided to the studio. Neither samples of our DNA. So keep looking in the haystack. You have failed for 3.5 years. If you find the needle in the haystack, a 1 in a billion chance, I expect Chris not to identify me as the purpose of this blog site is to post anonymously. Unlike most of you, I believe Chris is a man of integrity and has a consious.

And BTW the haystack has now been removed so there is no haystack to even find a needle....lol....you guys blow my mind with your intelligence. Why don't you look for an easier hobby than trying to identify ME, an ordinary Naperville citizen with a family and home, who is interested in loweer taxes and better government. Get some lives. Seriously!

By One Who Values You on August 9, 2009 10:35 PM
CIJ...

"The unique problem with Naperville is that it added thousands of McMansions to the tax base in recent years and taxes went higher instead of lower. It does not take more money to school the kids of the rich. Actually less money since many of them go to private school."

Unique problem? Try picking towns that also have large mansion houses. Why aren't you listing........Oak Brook etc.

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Very simple. The City of Oak Brook has zero taxes that have risen to zero taxes. Both towns have McMansions with Naperville's latest bigger than Oak Brook's. Oak Brook officials may just be a little more frugal than Naperville's. And I know both towns generate great sales tax with possibly Oak Brook a little more...but that does not account for the huge difference in CITY TAXATION.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of attacking...

"Do I need to remind you that I made a Barbie Doll of you at the time. That is why we should not go backwards.

Why are you guys unable to move forward? Try oiling your brains and get them out of the rut they are in. Seriously!"

This is not demeaning & attacking? You must have a different

definition than I do.

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This was not an attack. It was a COUNTER ATTACK at a Kindergarten Child who would not STOP attacking. The bottom line is I NEVER start the attacks....especially of LATE. Review the record please, Proffessor, before commenting.

Since Sybil did not adhere to the agreement of not talking about the Xtreme dance team, are you going to re-post all the deleted posts?

I think the moral of all of this may be "you reap what you sow."

CIJ...

"The unique problem with Naperville is that it added thousands of McMansions to the tax base in recent years and taxes went higher instead of lower. It does not take more money to school the kids of the rich. Actually less money since many of them go to private school."

Unique problem? Try picking towns that also have large mansion houses. Why aren't you listing Hinsdale, Oak Brook etc. Find towns that are similar in whatever population, housing costs and look at their tax increases if you want to make the point they are not going up as high as yours. Look at how many houses are in the same cost range, size etc. There are many towns that are "aging." Parents are now getting elderly & retiring and moving. Then new young people come in & buy the land, knock down the house and build bigger making the house now next door go down in value. That is exactly what happened to my folks when they retired and they had a 4 bedroom/4 bath ranch. It is now a 2 or even 3 level Monster of a house.

Speaking of attacking...

"Do I need to remind you that I made a Barbie Doll of you at the time. That is why we should not go backwards.

Why are you guys unable to move forward? Try oiling your brains and get them out of the rut they are in. Seriously!"

This is not demeaning & attacking? You must have a different definition than I do.

Why not a separate blog post for the article on spoiling our pets!

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1708058,naperville-pet-owners-recession-na080909.article

Yes I spoil mine! They need a shop just for Cats!!! ;-) I ended up going to the Natural Pet Market in Wheaton but it is not just cats and I wish they had more for them. How many people have Cats in Naperville? Maybe I'll open one up?

MHB wrote (italics mine):

Admitting that your daughter may have had some kind of problem in the past, and that Xtreme Dance helped straighten her out, is not libeling them. It is COMMENDING AND COMPLEMENTING them. It is amazing how people on this blog side can twist the truth so easily to make it seem, I, an avid supporter who loves them to death, was attempting to hurt their great reputation in any way.

MHB, here are your own words from your original post about your daughter's marijuana use:

One of our kids, the one that is a National Champion Dancer, does marijuana occasionally. The more pressure we put on her, the more she goes the other way.

Note your use of the present tense when you said that your daughter does marijuana. You definitely did not present this as a problem your daughter had in the past.

Also (italics mine, again):

Now she wants legal marijuana from California or Michigan and wants to take a trip to get some. She claims it helps with her aches and pains from dancing and relaxes her.

These are your own words, MHB. Nobody needed to twist anything to make their case. All they needed to do was take your words at face value. If there was a misunderstanding here, you were the cause of it. And if anybody is twisting anything right now, it is you.

-JQP

I am getting the error now also. Unfortunately if you do not save yoru comments in Word then you are in trouble because it does not always get approved & posted right away so you have no idea if it was received or not!

Keyboard Rambo,

I am against censorship....but I am also against libel. We are dealing with a thin line between both.

Knowingly lying should be unacceptable. Calling people liars which I have seen here on this blog site is libel. That is a very dangerous word. Everyone on this earth has lied one or more times. They can not be called liars because they lied a few times in their lives.

I get upset when bloggers begin attacking girls and boys. You just libeled this group again by referring to them as a "drug saddled dance troupe." Your comments are defamtory to the studio, its ownership and its customers. They are uncalled for.

I would like to ask Moderator Chris to delete Keyboard's last post for calling this dance troop "drug saddled."

What evidence does he have that this group is "drug saddled?" Absolutely no evidence. This dance group is as clean as any group in America. I do not own the studio but if I did I would sue you immediately.

This studio sold roughly 4000 tickets for $15 dollars each the last 4 days for about $60,000. I went again tonight to support them and they were at capacity and many parents gave up their seats to fans. They sold t-shirts, flowers, pictures, videos, etc for another $60,000.(my rough estimate.) They have the resources to sue you and take you to the cleaners. This is the kind of money they make in one weekend. They can easily afford attorneys.

You are messing with the wrong people, KR. If I were you, I would ask Moderator Chris to remove your last post before they see it for your own protection.

Seriously, you and many others need to grow up and get out of this Kindergarten you are stuck in and become grown-ups.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 9, 2009 3:17 PM
My daughter was hanging around with the 70% losers who attend the Naperville High Schools and populate Naperville Neighborhoods. Xtreme Dance kept her very busy and away from these losers.

______________________

Let's just say that I strongly disagree with your characterization that 70% of Naperville high school students are losers. Congratulations on your daughters dance accomplishments you must be very proud. I for one agree to keep your family out of the discussion as long as you keep ours out of yours as well (70% losers!!).

Ken, you really cant beat this kind of entertainment friend. Can't you just see He/She/It pushing the computer buttons only to be rejected "This error (HTTP 500 Internal Server Error) means that the website you are visiting had a server problem which prevented the webpage from displaying."

I would have loved to seen the anger and rage of not getting that one last 20 page paragraph in, oh for the love of humanity. To bad its the same post over and over and over. But, if Chris enjoys reading it and thinks it is worth posting then I guess its ok. These post are truely classics and if there are any mental health experts even remotely interested in offering free services, the time is now...

Chris,
Is there any way Sybil could have his/her own thread so s/he could ramble incessantly while the rest of us could carry on conversations and give opinions without every thread being hyjacked by this person? I know you probably can't do that, but I can dream, right?

And Sybil,
Your supposed daughter is really pulling the wool over on you! I have a daughter who dances, too, several hours a day, five to six days a week, and she gets achey but instead of illegal drugs she stretches, ices, takes Aleve or Motrin, and occassionally seeks chiropractic assistance or sees a doctor of sports medicine. Don't you think it would be wise to take that route with your daughter rather than turn the other cheek while she uses illegal drugs? Doesn't she realize that smoking - whether it's cigarettes or pot - directly effects her lung capacity? As a dancer who puts hours a day toward her craft, why would she do something that would compromise her ability to dance... because any doctor can tell you.. it does. Don't you realize she could get arrested? Does she? At 19, that's permanently on her record. Does she realize that the director, co-directors, and choreographers at XDF might let her go from the troupe if they find out about her drug use? They don't want that kind of publicity and their dancers (should) have to meet a certain standard. And whether she pays for her dance company or you do, that's a lot of money down the drain if you get booted off the team.

In any event, I'm sure the director, et al at XDF would love to know the sort of publicity they are receiving here on your behalf! I think it would be wise if someone here (hint) would alert them to your comments on this blog concerning XDF. You may appear to be a loose cannon. Like Chris said, if they wanted publicity in a local paper it would be up to them to submit a press release. If they feel the way YOU do - that they are 'past that stage' and the media should come to THEM - then they are doing their studio a disservice and may have become too big for their britches. And, if there are 50 dancers on the XDF team, then it could be narrowed down to a certain number of 19 year old girls. It could then be further narrowed down by the number with scoliosis and then even further by the number who have a parent who is very opinionated toward Naperville politics, the NPD, and frequently blogs on the Naperville Potluck site. Remember the old saying, "Loose lips sink ships"? Or are you just out of control?

Aww, I can't believe that awesome post about how Sybil was going to subpoena The Sun for the IP addresses of anyone who spoke poorly of the dance team got deleted, it was precious. I enjoy how much he has staunchly opposed censorship on this blog in the past, but then goes crying to Chris to get him to delete posts about his drug addled daughter's dance troupe. I guess I can't say I'm surprised, most people who are fanatical about a certain cause only remain fanatical as long as supporting said cause is convenient to them.

So much for all this "credibility" you're always touting, Sybil. Something tells me regardless of how much you rage against tax rates and the NPD, you'd be singing an entirely different tune if you ever had the opportunity to soak tax dollars or needed the police... Just like how you opposed censorship until you get yourself in a situation like this.

Pathetic.

Moderator Chris,

This is a response I am getting many times which leads me to believe my posts are not going through and why I am resubmitting them. Should I just ignore this respone and not resubmit?

Is anyone else also getting this message after they submit?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The website cannot display the page
HTTP 500
Most likely causes:
The website is under maintenance.
The website has a programming error.

What you can try:
Refresh the page.

Go back to the previous page.

More information

This error (HTTP 500 Internal Server Error) means that the website you are visiting had a server problem which prevented the webpage from displaying.

For more information about HTTP errors, see Help.

I did submit this post 11 times last night but your system told me there were maintenance problems over and over again. That is fine as I had a chance to cool off and tone the post down quite a bit this afternoon. I had saved it in my e-mail and I am submitting it again. It is in reponse to your posts in which I feel there has been a misundertanding so I hope you publish it since it is a RESPONSE. If the tone is still a little angry, I apologize. I was very angry last night but I am happy today because you deleted all the attacks on the kids and the sudio. Again, thanks much for showing you are a fair and classy guy. And willing to listen!

If I go to the dance mantinee which I plan to at 4pm, you and your bloggers will have another 6 hour relief from me! The dog has proven to be a good baby sitter for the new 6 week old kitten. She just needs the security that someone is around and dogs appear to qualify. The dog seems able to do the job so I can just drag my 2 sons with me. Thanks for all the good tips Former WV Mom!

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Moderator Chris,
I don't agree with your interpretation of how this situation happened or escalated. I have been blogging with Former WV Mom on a one to one basis about our kids under the handle Anonymous. On this thread and other threads. We had a very civil discussion. We discussed her cross country kid and my dancing kid. Apparently at some point I mentioned to her that my daughter had done marijuana some time in the past to relieve pain from dancing and I was very against it....I was very upset with the situation.

I had taken her to chiropractors to relieve this pain. It was not really working as well as we like but it did relieve some of the pain some of the time. She had taken more than her fair share of Ibuprofen which in the opinion of doctors could endanger her kidneys, liver, intestines, stomach and/or cancer if taken on a consistent basis for long periods of time. So I was willing to consider options with her such as legal marijuana from Michigan or California or better still a legal prescription drug called Marinol. I did not say I would do any of this but consider it if all else fails. I never said I would let her do anything illegal. Everything would have to be legal under Illinois law or it would not be done.

Suddenly the our 3 very well known trouble makers and/or T.B. started telling this nice lady I do not have a dancing daughter....implying I am lying. That I am making this all up. They started calling this daughter if I do in fact have her a "druggie." (As if the bloggers on this site all have drug free children...lol)

I had a chance to show these bloggers were simply misstating the truth by revealing what dance studio she is in, and revealing that she was about to compete nationally and in fact did, and her team won the championship. No way can my comments be thought of as ill-considered towards this studio or anyone from that studio? I have nothing but the highest and utmost respect for this studio.

My daughter was hanging around with the 70% losers who attend the Naperville High Schools and populate Naperville Neighborhoods. Xtreme Dance kept her very busy and away from these losers. The peer pressure at Xtreme Dance is the exact opposite from the peer pressure at the Naperville High Schools or the Naperville Neighborhoods which are drug infested due to lack of proper policing and proper parental responsibilities.

Since my daughter joined Xtreme Dance, nothing but good things have happened to her. Her friends at Xtreme Dance pressured her to quit cigarettes and she has been cig-free for quite a while now. I believe she did not make the X-TREME FORCE National Champion Team in 2006 despite her talents and abilities because of her cig habit which did not allow her to have the stamina to keep up with such superb dancers in 10 minute routines. She eventually cut down on cigs gradually until she finally quit. She made the National Champion Teams of 2007, 2008 and 2009.

None of the members of XTREME DANCE would ever do drugs or encourage my daughter to do drugs. There is massive peer pressure in that organization to be drug and alcohol free. And they are!
Seeking marijuana wrongfully because you feel it can help with pain due to a condition you have does not make you a druggie. Legal medicinal marijuana has proven helpful in chronic pain cases. We would never allow her to take Marinol which is legal synthetic marijuana minus the tar and other harmful ingredients without the consent of at least 2 doctors. And we have not gotten there yet, as increased visits to the chiropractor may be the best solution even though extremely expensive and inconvenient.

This is the story, Moderator Chris. Many of your bloggers have gone literally insane....maybe even mad. In attacking my daughter, other members of this fabulous studio, and the great reputation of this successful studio.

You have bloggers here calling the National Championship a faux. All they had to do was watch the contest live and see that only one team got it and the other 49 went home without the World Victory Trophy. It was all broadcast live and you allow bloggers like Ken to blatantly fabricate on your thread.

I don't care if 1000 people are against me. It does not bother me the least bit. The 1000 people in this case are out of line and need to be fenced in.

I read the history of the Napergate Man. Without exaggerating at one point a 100,000 people were against him. It did not bother him. He plowed through all 100,000 people and proved them wrong. He changed the minds of 100,000 residents and made a city surrender. He is my idol and I learned much from reading about him. I hope to plow through all your hostile bloggers one at a time until none are left standing with any credibility. Laugh at me if you would like, but I am half way there, Moderator Chris.

You are allowing some trouble makers to hijack your threads and destroy the reputation of your blog site. You are allowing them to use the word liar which is a libelous word. You are allowing them to accuse others of lying without showing an iota of proof. I urge you to stop this nonsense. (And you apparently have since I initially wrote this post last night. Thank you very much.)

We have debated this issue of the past over and over again. I have said my 2 cents worth and the opposing bloggers have said their 2 cents worth. What have we not said to each other that was not said before....nothing? Therefore, my question to you is why do you like to rerun an old movie over and over again that do not serve the interests of anyone or your blog site.

It should be very clear I do not start these nasty exchanges. I changed my handle to Anonymous so I can have a very good unprejudiced debate and learn something from a very nice lady I met on this blog site. It seemed like it worked for a week or two until you let a certain hostile bloggers expose me and begin the attacks by inserting themselves between WV Mom and myself. All you had to do is not publish their worthless posts and all this could have been avoided. Why publish their ill-considered posts that led to all this?

This is how it all happened. So why blame me for the ill-considered comments? Did I want to take us to the gutter? You know exactly who is attempting to take us to the gutter each time....and yet you apparently side with them. My feeling is you want to be with the majority whether they are right or wrong. I think you are making a huge mistake in choosing popularity over fairness. (That was my feeling last night and I don't feel this way today after you deleted the posts.)

In the meantime, I suggest you delete all those posts against those Naperville kids who did nothing but dance their behinds off. Did one single student from this studio attack one single blogger on this thread? The answer is no. So why did you allow them to be attacked, Moderator Chris? How many times did I repeat myself and state I was blogging as a volunteer Citizen Journalist for your newspaper? How many times did I say I have no affiliation with this wonderful Dance Studio? How many times did I tell you I don't speak for them?

How can you expect the thousands of parents, grandparents and friends to continue to support the Naperville Sun if you allow such posts that attack their children directly and indirectly?
None of my remarks were poorly chosen. You simply allowed a posse to distort what I said and go on the attack not only against ME but against my daughter and the entire studio. All this was really ridiculous....pathetic...insane...unacceptable!

(Anyway since I wrote this post I feel you successfully resolved all issues. Thank you! I simply just want my position understood.)

Moderator Chris,

The only time I send a post more than once is if it says Submission Failed. Otherwise, I would never send it a second time.

I attempted several times to send a post last night to explain my position, but it was saying "site under maintenance" or something of that nature. The post did not make it to the best of my knowledge. That is why I send until it states Submission Successful or whatever. I did save that post in my e-mail as I sensed a problem so I will try to re-submit it later. It responds to your posts and explains my position.

I also did write an explanation about Aurora vs. Naperville regarding gangs that had nothing to do with the current issue...and it never made it. I did not save it. I am sorry Former WV Mom but I have no energy or time to write it again.

I had so much fun watching the kids last night, I plan(not 100% sure as I have to deal with 2 other kids, a dog and kitten), to attend the 4pm matinee performance one more time since it is kinda of a last chance to see these great kids again. Twenty one teenagers will be graduating since they will be 20 on January 1 and the National Organizations are very strict about 19 and under on that date to qualify for another season. These are all professional organizations and don't break rules for anyone. You can give them a million dollars and they will never let your son or daughter compete once they exceeded the age limit. To hear they are FAUX really upset me. I have not checked yet but I certainly hope that post was one of the ones removed.

Anyway, there are occassional problems with your site that causes me to submit more than once. I am sorry if this causes you any problems. I know you are a very busy man but it is not my fault.

I would like to tell bloggers since I have a little experience on your blog site, if you refresh and you do not get new posts, refresh one or more times and you may get 5 or 10 new posts.
Also if you don't see the "all blue color" your refresh probably failed. Try, try again if you don't succeed.

Usually in the day time, I submit once and get the signal it worked.
I have the most trouble between 130pm and 230am.

So my apologies if I caused you any trouble Moderator.

And thanks for deleting the posts that attack the kids unjustifiably. That was very classy of you. While I am Anonymous and people can throw all the stones they want on me, Xtreme Dance is not anonymous. And even though we are not talking about individuals there, they are one big team and if you attack one you attack all. Attacking Xteme Dance unjustifiably and in a wrong manner can contrue libel. They care very much for their hard earned reputation and it would not surprise me if they were to sue those who libel them. Admitting that your daughter may have had some kind of problem in the past, and that Xtreme Dance helped straighten her out, is not libeling them. It is COMMENDING AND COMPLEMENTING them. It is amazing how people on this blog side can twist the truth so easily to make it seem, I, an avid supporter who loves them to death, was attempting to hurt their great reputation in any way. The only thing I admitted to was that I had a daughter who was not PERFECT despite being a national champion. Are we not allowed to be honest in this world. If everyone else in Naperville wants to live in the closet and hide their kids' problems under the covers, that is their prerogative. I intend to deal with any problems my kids have and face them head on. And I may even send my 2 boys to XTREME DANCE to make sure they have positive peer pressure. I am amazed how many boys are now at XTREME excelling in dance just like the girls. I think one routine had 20-22 boys all with 6-packs or in some cases 8-packs. Yes, if you go you will see their midriffs for yourselves.

And one needs to understand while peer pressure on my kids has been awful in Naperville, despite unbelievable efforts by both parents in my family, this Xtreme Dance Studio has been a shining beacon for us. My daughter will grow up and be a great lady, because of the disciple and work ethic this Dance Studio demands and instills in its dancers.

This is really an amazing Dance Studio and anyone who wants to keep their son or daughter dancing and out of trouble this is really the best place. We tried 2 other studios in Naperville and they could not bring the discipline to my daughter that this studio brought. I will not mention their names. Good studios but not of the superb quality of this STUDIO. And this studio is very humble. They describe themselves as the best in the Midwest in their literature despite being National Champions 4 years in a row and counting. I had done them a disservice when I stated they were 3 time National Champions. I apologize to them for not knowing they won the National Championship in 2006 while my daughter was still on the Alliance Team working her way upwards. At least I can not be attacked for exaggerating.

Unfortuantely, you do have to audition to get in this studio and be a somewhat decent dancer with abilities and potentials to be accepted. My daughter spent a good 8 years in 2 other studios before she could make the cut at this studio. And she rose through the ranks from nobody to B to A to the Top Force Team. I believe their A team or second best team is called Alliance. Some of the 29 dances are theirs and they look superb just like the National Team. There subs are so good, they don't need to have rebuilding years. Just like the old Johny Wooden years at UCLA. Go watch them this afternoon and see what I mean.

Unless, you have a judges eye for jazz and hip hop, you will not be able to tell much difference between the Alliance Teams and the top nationally ranked Force Team.

I hope some of your bloggers get to check them out at 4pm this afternoon to see how talented they are. If you don't like hip hop or jazz after witnessing these National Champions, you will probably suddenly find yourself interested.

My point was that the downtown area is quite safe. There are activities going on down there all the time. The Paramount has numerous shows, plays, concerts, as does the theater across from it at North Island Center.

And yes, murder has happened in Naperville too. Not too long ago there was the case in the subdivision near Neuqua.

As someone who drives through ALL areas of Aurora on a regular basis since we have family and friends in many different neighborhoods, I have never once in the 45 years I have lived here seen anything happen that would scare me or cause me any concern. Honestly I get more scared by drivers' actions on and east of Route 59 than I do driving through the east side of Aurora. As someone who spent over 10 years teaching in the East Aurora schools, not once was I scared or made to feel as if I was in danger.

You mention this gunfire at Galaxy World. When was this? How many years ago was this? In the last couple years or twenty years?Where are the articles about this? Can you positively point to the fact that the perpetrators were from Aurora and not Joliet or somewhere else?

When it comes to stats, since the mid 90s, the crime rate has dropped throughout Illinois, including Aurora, and including the murder rate. According to this table (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/table4il_mo.htm) Aurora has fewer murders in 2006 and 2007 than Peoria, Rockford, and Joliet. All three have smaller populations too.
And here is the link to the most recent article on crime rates in Aurora.
http://www.triblocal.com/Aurora/List_View/view.html?type=stories&action=detail&sub_id=84823

Yes, overall Naperville is safer. But it is ridiculous to try and stay in the little bubble of Naperville all the time because of the rare chance that you would be murdered in another place. Unless you are wandering the streets in the middle of the night flashing gang signs, or associating with gang members on a regular basis, you are not going to be murdered by a gang member in Aurora. And it just frustrates me that people who speak like this about Aurora are perfectly comfortable driving into Chicago on a regular basis when Chicago was recently touted as the murder capital of the US.

This kind of fear mongering is just ridiculous.

Correction...............

My above post should have read I bet one would find the few actual gang murders in Naperville involved the fine gang bangers of Aurora.

I apologize in advance for any confusion.

August 9,2009 11:39 am comment

And several of those "known" gang bangers (from Galaxy World for just one example) have been seen in downtown Naperville and on the riverwalk. There have also been many small fights on the riverwalk.

The reason for school resource officers to be assigned in the downtown area..... they have knowledge of these kids. They "work" with them in school (during the school year) on a regular basis. The officers know them by face and name (and the gang bangers know this). Also, these gang bangers are drawn to our downtown do to the large number of people (young adults and kids) that hang out in our downtown.

The extra showing by NPD, in downtown Naperville, has kept many of our neighboring towns "issues" out of our town.

Also, the school resource officers have been able to develop "resources of information" about drug issues. Many times this information is shared with other police agencies. There have been comments on this blog about NPD not doing enough. If you arrest one user, you may save one person. If you can work with other agencies and arrest a supplier, you may save many lives.

By Former WV Mom on August 8, 2009 5:08 PM

First, gang murders have occurred in Naperville also, not just Aurora.

_____________________________

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there......

Compare statistics and you will see Aurora is the gang murder capital, second only to Chicago. I bet one would find the few actual gang murders in Aurora involved the fine gang bangers of Aurora. I remember several incidents over the years of gunfire being exchanged on Aurora Ave by thugs from Aurora leaving Galaxy World, if not in the parking lot.

I am sure downtown Aurora is fine, once you drive through the war zone getting there. No thanks, I'll stick to Naperville. Much safer.

Anyway I went today and it was a great performance.

It was announced that the director of Xtreme Dance, Sam Renzetti, was on national TV, for 2 full hours today. He would not be on national TV if he did not achieve something spectacular....if he was not truly a remarkable young man...if he was not an immensely successful young man. He also made the cover of a national magazine.

As I have said this Dance Studio has earned its great reputation through hard work over a lot of years.

I am not doing it any disservice by promoting its spectacular kids.

There are 250 students who auditioned to qualify just to be in this studio. They work with kids from as young as 5 to as old of 20 to produce the great quality of dancing. It takes a lot hard work to make their XTREME FORCE team which competes nationally. Most of the dancers are not on the team but striving to make it one day. However the B and C team of this Dance Studio performed at the Showcase and they were also really awesome.

They in no way bought their way to greatness. They worked very hard and earned it fair and square in National Competitions. They beat out over 50 competitors from across the country who went through regionals to make it this far. Only one team won the World Victory Trophy. So 49 teams went home with out it. The only faux national championship is in your sick brain, Ken. Honestly, you are a very sick person to be putting these Naperville Kids down. (Were you ever really in that wheel chair or did you just say that to get sympathy on this blog site....you appear to have very low esteem to cut others down...please heed the warnings of the Moderator and stop attacking these kids...how dare you.)

For anyone to doubt the accomplishments of this Dance Team only shows in my opinion utter jealousy bordering on utter stupidity.

Tomorrow at 4pm is there last performance for this year. I could only see about 20 empty seats right before closing from the 1000 capacity. They were most probably for the parents who performed the 29th and final dance routine.

My expection is they will have a sell out tomorrow. So get there early if you would like to see these great kids that Naperville should be proud of.

Instead of bashing their talents, cough up 15 bucks and admire their spectacular performance. If you want to criticise, at least see them first so you can have some credibility. If you than have some productive constructive criticism, let them hear it. They will use it to improve themselves futher. They strive for perfection. I honestly only saw perfection tonight.

And be proud that they are not costing the taxpayers one single red cent. They are a non-profit self sufficient organization. May God Bless them. And they gave many thanks to God today at their performance for giving them the ability to do what they have done. They are truly a remarkable story. I love them all.

In Fall 2002 the Waubonsie Marching Band won a number of competitions and finished in the top 10 nationally in their first year of Bands in America competition. They were receiving no press. I as a parent wrote a simple email to the Sun Times newspapers (Beacon, Sun, Fox Valley Sun) suggesting that they cover the half time show at the last home game since they already had a photographer and reporter present. It turned into a page one story with pictures featuring not only the WV band but the other Naperville area bands. The story appeared all 3 papers.

One minute invested in an email reaped the recognition that was sought. Think how easy it is when you play by the guidelines set out by the industry.

MHB wrote:

Get out of Kindergarten JQP where they spin the same record all day. You are too old for that. Seriously. Stop this old nonsense. It is not going to stop me from blogging on new topics and presenting my views. So why waste your time like the stooges. They are probably slapping each other around right now.

You want me to stop? Then stop mischaracterizing your past behavior. It's that simple. If you honestly can't do that, then don't even respond when someone brings up the topic again. Just accept that they will keep bringing it up. Think of it as the penance you have to pay for past sins. But, as I've already told you at least a couple of times, don't think for a minute that I'm going to remain silent while you try to rewrite your history.

-JQP

Sybil, what you don't seem to understand about dance clubs is just that, they are clubs. Just like the cheerleading clubs, rich parents use them to send their kids to so some of their time is freed up. Just because dance clubs travel and hold faux national championships does not make them relevant or interesting to the normal person. Schools that excel in sports without the massive fees and ability to pick the creme of the crop are a different story...and therefore a story to be covered.

Chris,
I am not part of the Xtreme Dance Orgnaization and I will not tell them to issue press releases. It is really none of my business.

They know what they are doing and I am not going to step on their toes.

I just tipped you off and you can do as you please. I was acting in my capacity as a Citizen Journalist as the Naperville Sun asked me to be.

It is really that simple.

I would just like to point out many of those who are attacking me are using multiple handles to attack me to bolster their utter stupdity and inability to debate. Perfect examples are DONT TO DRUGS and DURGS ARE BAD BAD BAD who are obviously bloggers who changed their monikers to build support for their insane cause of reincarnating humans into pitbulls. How pathetic!

I hope all new bloggers see through the trouble makers and their nuttiness which has reached levels of insanity. Can you imagine a human being wasting his time attacking another human being over an issue that is a year old? Only a pit bull could be that crazy!

CIJ wrote
As far as Paramount Arts Center in Aurora, I don't think most Napervillians want their precious kids being in a town with dozens of gang murders each year. I certainly do not want my daughter subjected to the cross fire of the gangs.

------------------------------------------------------------------
As someone who lives in Aurora, and has all her life, I find your comments offensive.

First, gang murders have occurred in Naperville also, not just Aurora.

Second, nothing like that has occurred near the Paramount Arts Center in any time that I can recall over the last 15-20 years.

That is the kind of attitude that gives Napervillians a bad name.

Do you ever go to Chicago for anything? Dinner? A show? More incidents happen in Chicago than Aurora.

St. Charles? Also has had some gang problems as well as quite a few drug problems.

As someone who has attended Downtown Alive in Aurora fairly regularly, I have never seen anything to be concerned about in that area of town.

Now if you want to drive around flashing gang signs anywhere in Aurora, Naperville, St. Charles or Chicago, you are asking for trouble. But that goes for anywhere.

CIJ - you are not a journalist - you are a kook - plain and simple. Your delusions of credibility and importance have been more than amply demonstrated time and time again - in all of your characters.

Your hubris has reached a level beyond pathetic. No one cares about the dance troop. It's great that they won and good for them. But to the city at large and most of the people who live in Naperville, it is unimportant and trivial. Gee - much like you and your opinions.

As for you writing things about folks and suggesting what things the newspaper should investigate or do stories on, give it a break. I'd be careful abou8t such things. You might get exactly what you want.

Editor Chris - Id suggest that perhaps there is a story worth investigating about drug use by members of the dance team - and maybe by one who is legally an adult. It might be that she could be contributing to the delinquency of minors. we kno0w the drug use is not an alleged act as her own parent said right here that she used drugs and had friends coming to her home who also had possession of narcotics.

Sounds to me like maybe this should also be brought to the attention of the authorities.

MHB wrote:

I used numerous fictional characters to tell the story. Everyone here is a fictional character. I used more than others. Many others have used multiple handles and continue to do so. I did nothing wrong except occassionally pat one of my characters on the back....and I already apologized for that.

First off, "fictional" and "anonymous" do not mean the same thing; they are not even similar. Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character, but is not anonymous. The Unknown Soldier is anonymous, but not fictional. You, MHB, are not fictional. Neither am I, though I am more anonymous than you are.

As for your explanation of having done "nothing wrong except occassionally pat one of my characters on the back", that is just a mound of bull excrement. Anonymouse One's description is far more accurate. You keep trying to pass this off as a minor misunderstanding. I doubt there is anybody other than you who was participating on Potluck in those days who would agree with your take on this. And anyone who's new to Potluck and cares to research the issue almost certainly won't agree with you, either. I wouldn't encourage anyone to do that if I were you, though, because you have more to lose here than just an argument.

-JQP

Moderator Chris,

I think you are ignoring the fact that this Dance Team traveled to 3 cities, competed for a National Champion in Myrtle Beach and won it. I wish I could highlight the words NATIONAL CHAMPION for you that you conveniently ignore, but my computer will not allow it. This is where I think you are amiss.

They are also 4 time repeat National Champions.

That is really where you and Sun Officials are missing the POINT.

The boys on this dance team about 10 of them are much more athletic than the football or basketball players in any Naperville School. They all have 6 packs in their abdominal area that you can easily see from 200 feet away. Some do expose their midriffs at the performance so anyone can see it for themselves. These athletes who are dancers have almost no body fat. That is how hard they work. Some of the boys are so strong they can have a girl literally stand in the palm of their hand and lift her. And they can do anything Jesse's tumblers can do but so much better and in a more artistic and talented manner while dancing jazz and hip hop.

They are so good a few are turning pro and one was actually offered a pro contract while in Myrtle Beach. She was recruited on site.

Did Naperville North Football Team send you a press release when they won the State Championship 2 years ago? Of course not! These 50 kids did not win a State Championship. They won a National Championship.

Honestly, Moderator Chris I think you and the Naperville Sun are being ridiculous. I suspect some bloggers will eventually tell you that you are mistaken in how you are dealing with this issue.

And what you are saying is "news judgment deems it not so important" borders on pathetic. I guess it is more important to report that 680 people were arrested in Naperville and charged with DUI's. We were second best in the state for this ugliness. That is what you deem more NEWSWORTHY. Really!

It is more important to include a daily police blog that tells of all the crimes being committed in our town every day than print some positive news. A criminal who robs a gas station gets more publicity than a dance team who works hard a full year to win a National Championship.

And if they send you a press release, you are saying they will be lucky to get something on the bottom of a page. I suspect they sent your newspaper a press release in the past and have chosen not to waste their time....my speculation of course.

Again, I speak for myself, and I am in no way affiliated with this Xtreme Dance Studio except to have a daughter on the dance team for several years.

Anyway they are performing again today at the Norris Center in St. Charles at 7 pm. Their very last performance in which you can see them re-enact that dances of Myrtle Beach which won them the National Championship will be Sunday at 4pm. If you attend I promise you that you will be pleasantly surprised if not amazed.

If Bev Frier is serious about building the Omnia Theater she should be there becoming better acquainted with this unique Dance Group. This is one local group that can potentially fill her 2700 seat theater. And maybe if she succeeds, she can petition for holding the National Championship one day in Naperville instead of Orlando,Fl., Ocean City, MD, Las Vegas, NV. or Myrtle Beach, S.C.

This would be a bonanza for the City of Naperville to have 10,000 people from across the country to show up for a National Dancing Contest. Every hotel in town would be packed and the ripple effect on the economy of Naperville will be beyond comprehension for 6 days. Plus it would put Naperville on the national map instead of just its Dance Studio.

One of the most frequently asked questions in Myrtle Beach, was where is Naperville. We are not yet recognized nationally as a city. Yes, we are recognized in Mony/CNN as the Best Place to Rasie Children. Could that be because City Officials bombarded them with press releases....lol...and forgot to include all our youths who unfortuately have overdozed on heroin!

Depending on press releases is not a way to run a professional newspaper....maybe a tabloid that promotes the interest of the establishment and what they want in the newspaper. The Naperville Sun is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the City of Naperville and self serving press releases. That is my opinion. You confirmed it for me, Moderator Chris. Thank you very much!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Anonymous 1001,

The fact that residents are willing to pay 15 dollars to watch an exhibition and only 3 dollars to watch a Naperville Football or Basketball game should tell you something about what may be more interesting. And this is considered an away game since they could not find a suitable auditorium in Naperville. Pfeiffer Hall is very old and run down and could not provide the necessary "stage area, acoustics, lighting and mechanicals to host this most elaborate performance." They are not going to sacrific all that for 57 additional seats.

As far as Paramount Arts Center in Aurora, I don't think most Napervillians want their precious kids being in a town with dozens of gang murders each year. I certainly do not want my daughter subjected to the cross fire of the gangs. Again, I don't speak for the Dance Studio but for myself. I love my daughter and could not live with myself if anything ever happened to her. There is more risk in Aurora to life and limb. St. Charles is a very safe town with almost no murders just like Naperville. It is also beautiful so you may want to check it out, before or after, if you decide to attend.

As you can see you can avoid the unaffordable cost of an Omnia, by having a dance group perform 4 times instead of 2 times to accomodate the expected crowds. Another reason we do not need an Omnia that will be subsidized by Naperville Taxpayers.

Again XTREME DANCE is subsidized by no one and does not even apply for cultural funds from the 1% unconsionable tax imposed on Naperville Residents. They are the real thing and can make their own money to sustain themselves. I feel they deserve the support of the community. It is nice a couple of people agreed with me yesterday. Thank you for having an open mind!

Norris Cultural Arts Center:
"The Norris, a generous gift to the Fox Valley from the Norris Foundation, includes an exceptional art exhibition gallery and a 1,000-seat theater with the stage area, acoustics, lighting and mechanicals to host the most elaborate performances."
http://www.norrisculturalarts.com

Pfeiffer Hall, North Central College:
"Pfeiffer Hall features a 1,057-seat auditorium"
http://finearts.northcentralcollege.edu/x45065.xml

Paramount Arts Center in Aurora has seating for 1400.

Looks like there is a bit more seating in one of North Central's venues, and much more in Aurora at the Paramount.

CIJ,
I would look at it this way. If the paper receives press releases from a bunch of private entities and organizations who are seeking coverage, but nothing from another private entity or organization, they are going to choose to cover the ones who have made their jobs a little easier by providing them some information and names of contact people. The newspapers are spreading their staff pretty thin nowadays.

I would not be surprised that if you looked into these dance magazines, you would find that they had received some information from the dance studio, or were at the dance competitions themselves since it would be part of their beat to cover those competitions. They had the basic information.

A press release will send the info through the correct channels where decisions can be made as to how far to with coverage.

By Chris Magee, moderator on August 8, 2009 11:26 AM
CIJ, do you have any idea how ridiculous your theory on newspaper coverage sounds? We know you don't speak for the organization(CORRECT) so those who run it probably don't feel the way you do(YOU CAN'T BE SURE HERE), but any group that wants attention from the media needs to at least attempt self promotion.(SOUNDS EGOTISTICAL TO ME.) There's hundreds of events and groups in town and they'd all like some recognition.(ARE ANY OF THEM NATIONAL CHAMPIONS?) You making a comment on a blog is not the equivalent of sending a press release.(IT IS BETTER. I GAVE LOTS OF DETAILS THAT WERE EASILY VERIFIABLE.) I couldn't take your comment from here and write a story about it, could I? (YOU COULD IF YOU WANTED TO.) There's no specific info, no contact information if we had more questions.(THEIR WEB SITE PROVIDES ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION AND I PROVIDED THEIR PHYSICAL LOCATION IN NAPERVILLE.) Press releases are good enough for hundreds of other organizations in the area.(MAYBE THEY ARE NOT EXCELLING TO MAXIMUM POTENTIAL BECAUSE THEY ARE WASTING THEIR TIME SELF PROMOTING THEMSELVES AND SEEKING ATTENTION BEFORE THE TRULY EARN AND DESERVE IT.) I don't think your dance team is too good for them.(IT IS NOT MY DANCE TEAM JUST FOR THE RECORD.)

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In essence I tipped the Sun off to a great story. It chose not to cover the story even though it involved 50 Naperville Teenagers winning a National Champion. They have 200 parents and 400 grandparents that would have loved to read about them in the Sun. They have hundreds of friends. Keep in mind this dance studio has about 250 other young Napervillians aspiring to make the Xtreme Force Team one day and also be National Champions and continue the legacy of this program that has done it 4 times in a row....truly a remarkable feat.

These 250 other aspiring kids have 500 parents and 1000 grandparents. The Naperville Sun has lost an opportunity to sell papers to this large group of residents. I can only speculate some will cancel their subscriptions when they see the Sun is unwilling to cover their daughters and sons when they rise to this high status of expertise through an extremely hard and diligent work ethic.

So I guess the majority feels you should hound the Sun with press releases if you want attention for your youth whether they truly deserve it or not. Basically the majority and Moderator Chris feel the squeaky wheel will get the attention...will get the recognition....make some noise and you will get attention. This is not how a professional newspaper should be operating. I am sorry but I vehemently disagree with the majority. A tip in this case from someone not affiliated directly with the studio ownership or management is better than any press release coming out of the dance studio itself which could easily be misinterpreted and construed as bragging as I was accused of by a ubiquitous blogger.

This dance studio is really so busy that they have not even had a chance to update their Web Site which mentions the 2006, 2007 and 2008 championship but does not mention the 2009 championship that came about Tuesday the 28th of August in Myrtle Beach at the Sheraton Hotel in front of about 5000 spectators from across the country. Yes, in 11 days they have not been able to update their blog site as they have used all their resources to get the Celebration Show Case rolling which was a monumental task in itself. With 2 shows left(today at 7:00pm and tomorrow at 4:00pm), I hope some of you folks go see it so you can appreciate what these teenagers are all about. Seeing is believing.

Basing your news coverage on "the squeaky wheel theory" in my opinion is one of the reasons why the Sun is losing readership and subscriptions. The Sun needs to be covering the real news and not those who want recognition by sending numerous press releases.

This dance group in my opinion is being classy by not issuing a press release demanding recognition. They earned it. They deserve it. They should not have to seek it or beg for it. They are being covered by regional and national media and magazines. While I don't speak for them, I suspect they could care less if the Naperville Sun feels they are not worthy of coverage. It is honestly shameful and disgusting that the Naperville Sun did not find them worthy of coverage after beating dance studios from all across America for the National Championship. It is honestly shameful that one reporter can not make a 10-15 mile trip to St. Charles to witness their 4 day Celebration Show Case for a few hours and write an article about it. The only reason they are not performing in the new NCC Auditorium is that it is too small to accommodate their supporters, admirers and followers. Thus it could not be held in Naperville.(BTW I am still against Omnia as not even this group could make it profitable.) Thousands don't mind making the short trip. Why is it so hard for one single reporter to find time to make the trip? Is the Sun really that broke? Investing some time and gas money in such a story will only strengthen the Sun...not weaken it. In business those who do not have money to advertise usually go broke. The Sun should know that. In news coverage those who do not have money to cover the news will also eventually go broke.

Even when the Sun was tipped of by ME, they obviously did not think this story was worth looking into. Amazing! Is it that hard to make a phone call and interview the owner, managers and teachers of the studio after you are tipped off? The owner has been on the cover of national magazines. He has been on national TV shows. It is an insult that he should seek the Naperville Sun. The Sun should be seeking him.

Those who seek recognition in my opinion do not deserve it. This is a perfect example of a National Championship Team that does not seek recognition, yet earned and deserved it, but is not receiving it. In the Sun's system of reporting, a karate studio that may have won a local match and bombarded the Sun with press releases will get the coverage over a team who traveled through Detroit, Minnesota and Myrtle Beach to win the National Championship on a world wide televised live internet broadcast.

The Naperville Sun is in such a coma, and at the expense of sounding conceited, they are fortunate to have me as a volunteer Citizen Journalist tipping them off to events and happenings in town. If the Sun is short on staff, they should make time to read this blog site every day. The former Editor was the Moderator and made sure he kept abreast of happenings being reported on this blog site. It seems like arrogance has taken over the leadership of the Sun as arrogance has taken over the leadership of our city officials.

When Moderator/Editor Jim Lynch said I want you bloggers to be my Citizen Journalists, I have no doubt he meant it. It is too bad the current editor does not feel the same way. The current editor is not Moderator Chris so for the record we are not speaking about our current Moderator who is not responsible for this injustice to these young teenagers even though I strongly disagree with his opinion that supports his superiors.

I will not be contacting the Editor as Moderator Chris suggested because I expect him to be reading his own Blog Site and getting a feel of the pulse of the community. There is nothing more I can say to him or her than I have already said on THEIR OWN BLOG SITE. Except, have a good day and reconsider your decision. Thank you!

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PS. Sorry to be so harsh on the Sun but just consider it tough love from a volunteer journalist. I am one who speaks my mind regardless of the consequences and that could have something to with my popularity here....albeit mostly negative. I pretty much say it as I see it with no salt, pepper or pampering of Moderator Chris as some have wrongfully alleged.

Sybil wrote:

Many times I was one character taking on 7 pit bulls at one time. Review when I was Diana for 11 days straight and took on 7 of you at one time and sliced and diced all of you...including you Ken. I did not need multiple characters to shred you guys to pieces. I was able to get real documents from my friend at the Tollway that proved you guys ALL WRONG. Just like I proved you all wrong when you attempted to say I did not have a daughter who danced. Your credibility and that of your friends borders on ZERO...ZILCH.
Do I need to remind you that I made a Barbie Doll of you at the time. That is why we should not go backwards.

More lies from Linden Oaks. You, in your lie of being Diana, were proven wrong every time. You and your criminal friends never showed any documents, although I wish your claims were true, because it would be nice to see you prosecuted for illegally obtaining information, and your imaginary friend at the tollway authority fired.

The only thing that appears to be sliced and diced are your few remaining brain cells that haven't been affected by second hand smoke from your druggie daughter's habits. It is hilarious that the one proven liar here (you,Sybil)claims others have no credibility. It is also hilarious that you equate calling people names, your usual modus operandi, as a threat to keep them quiet.

Tell your caretakers that it is time to adjust your meds again, as you are obviously relapsing.

This dance group in my opinion is being classy by not issuing a press release demanding recognition. They earned it
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I will be calling this silly dance studio and letting them know they have a nut job who is there unofficial press officer and also a world wide citizen journalist/Police and Fire Chief/city official and whatever else she is an expert on. There isnt one person who agrees with you lady on any topic, you have issues...

The only good thing is that I enjoy laughing at your 3am blogs and wonder why someone is thinking about this stuff when they should be sleeping. Does the pot smoker go to bed before you or what?

CIJ,
Contact the local Young Life leader. They could give you the name of a highly reliable, trustworthy teenager or young adult (even one of the other leaders) who would be willing to come to your home to feed and walk the pets. This would be a teenager or young adult who is not going to throw a party in your home, especially after being recommended by an adult they admire and trust.
Just type Naperville Young Life into Google.

Otherwise consider a pet sitting service. There are ones that are fully licensed, insured, and bonded. You can also find reviews of most of them online. It is similar to hiring a cleaning service. There are a lot of people in Naperville who use these services on a daily basis to walk pets while they are at work.

Although I would guess you are not comfortable with anyone coming to your home to do that.

One reason people are reluctant to take care of other people's pets in their own homes is because it does upset the pet to be relocated like that, even temporarily. As a result they don't behave the same way they would in their own home. They are more likely to have an accident in another home as well as chew on things they aren't supposed to. They can get a little neurotic about being moved like that. And then if the people have their own pet, there is the issue of conflicts between their pet and the visiting pet. (and chances are if they don;t already have their own pet, there is a reason for that - they don't want one in their home or have a lifestyle that doesn't accommodate a pet.)

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 7, 2009 9:34 PM
To the many bloggers who don't understand the daughter issue,

I was blogging for a while under the handle Anonymous with Former WV Mom. We were exchanging ideas and I was seeking advice. I did not feel I would be uncovered since I usually blog about high taxes and government waste and had never blogged about family issues before.
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Come on; get off it. You weren't seeking advise. You were telling Former WV Mom how naive she was allowing teens into her home. She the optimist; you your normal eternal pessimist. Like normal, you were right; she was wrong. You were giving advise not seeking it.

Look at this post:

By Anonymous on July 20, 2009 6:09 PM

"Contrary to what you say, I would advise parents not to allow their kids to make THEIR basement, a teenage hang-out unless your kids come out of a perfect mold instead of a womb. Mine and most kids in Naperville appeared to have come out of wombs.

"No matter what most parents do and how well they raise their kids, in my opinion they experience REBELLION. It is a normal part of life. It is how kids eventually earn their freedom into adulthood. It is a ritual all teenagers and parents have to go through. We just have to keep tabs on this ritual so it does not have to get out of control as apparently occured with one of my children.

"All I can say to you Former WV Mom, is your family is not typical and you are not equipped to advise familes with rebellious teenagers."

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 7, 2009 9:34 PM
I was blogging for a while under the handle Anonymous with Former WV Mom.

If I denied it was me, I would be accused of lying. I was truthful and admitted it was me and this is what led to the daughter issue. So your damned if you do and damned if you don't on this blog site.

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So you were blogging as "anonymous" with former WV Mom, yet you fessed up so you wouldn't be accused of lying? You've been accused (and proven) of lying for over 3 years, and now after all this time you decide to throw your daughter under the bus to prove what - honesty?

By Anonymous on August 7, 2009 7:49 AM

By sending a press release, the paper, if it decides to cover the event after weighing it against other things it has received official notification about, can then assign a reporter or hire a freelancer to cover the story. Moderator Chris, have I got this straight on how things work?

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In essence I tipped the Sun off to a great story. It chose not to cover the story even though it involved 50 Naperville Teenagers winning a National Champion. They have 200 parents and 400 grandparents that would have loved to read about them in the Sun.
They have hundreds of friends. Keep in mind this dance studio has about 250 other Napervillians aspiring to make the Xtreme Force Team one day and also be National Champions and continue the legacy of this program that has done it 4 times in a row....truly a remarkable feat.

These 250 kids have 500 parents and 1000 grandparents. The Naperville Sun has lost an opportunity to sell papers to this large group of residents. I am sure many will cancel when they see the Sun is unwilling to cover their daughters and sons when they rise to this status through extremely hard work.

So I guess the majority feels you should hound the Sun with press releases if you want attention for your youth whether they deserve it or not. Bascially the majority and Moderator Chris feel the squeeky wheel will get the attention...will get the recognition....make some noise and you will get attention. This is not how a professional newspaper should be operating. I am sorry but I vehemently disagree with the majority. A tip in this case from someone not affiliated directly with the studio is better than any press release coming out of the dance studio.

This dance studio is really so busy that they have not even had a chance to update their Web Site which mentions the 2006, 2007 and 2008 championship but does not mention the 2009 championship that came about Tuesday the 28th of August in Mrtyle Beach at the Sheraton Hotel in front of about 5000 spectators from across the country.

That in my opinion is one of the reasons why the Sun is failing. The Sun needs to be covering the real news and not those who want recognition by sending numerous press releases.

This dance group in my opinion is being classy by not issuing a press release demanding recognition. They earned it. They deserve it. They should not have to seek it or beg for it. They are being covered by regional and national media and magazines. While I don't speak for them, I suspect they could care less if the Naperville Sun feels they are not worthy of coverage. It is honestly shameful and disgusting that the Naperville Sun did not find them worthy of coverage after beating dance studios from all across America for the National Championship. It is honestly shameful that one reporter can not make a trip to St. Charles to witness their 4 day Celebration Performance. The only reason they are not performing in the new NCC auditorium is that it is too small to accomdodate their supporters, admirers and followers.

Even when the Sun was tipped of by ME, they obviously did not think this story was worth looking into. Is it that hard to make a phone call and interview the owner and teachers of the studio after you are tipped off? The owner has been on the cover of national magazines. He has been on national TV shows. It is an insult that he should seek the Naperville Sun. The Sun should be seeking him.

Those who seek recognition in my opinion do not deserve it. This is a perfect examaple of a National Team that does not seek recognition, yet earned it and deserves it.

The Naperville Sun is in such a coma, not to sound conceited, they are lucky to have me as a Citizen Journalist tipping them off to events and happenings in town. If the Sun is short on staff, they should make time to read this blog site every day. The former Editor was the Moderator and made sure he kept abreast of happenings being reported on this blog site. It seems like arrogance has taken over the leadership of the Sun as arrogance has taken over the leadership of our city officials.

When Moderator/Editor Jim Lynch said I want you bloggers to be my Citizen Journalists, I have no doubt he meant it. It is too bad the current editor does not feel the same way. The current editor is not Moderator Chris so for the record we are not speaking about our current Moderator.

I will not be contacting him as Moderator Chris suggested because I expect him or her to be reading his own Blog Site and getting a feel of the pulse of the community. There is nothing more I can say to him or her than I have already said on THEIR BLOG SITE.

By Ken on August 8, 2009 12:35 AM

Of course, he/she/it didn't give the reason, but I will. You don't want to discuss it with him/her/it because keeping track of all the lies will keep one very busy.

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The Napergate Story was told honestly and accurately just as I researched it at the library. No one has been able to dispute one thing about the Napergate Story I told...at least not yet.

I used numerous fictional characters to tell the story. Everyone here is a fictional character. I used more than others. Many others have used multiple handles and continue to do so. I did nothing wrong except occassionally pat one of my characters on the back....and I already apologized for that.

Many times I was one character taking on 7 pit bulls at one time. Review when I was Diana for 11 days straight and took on 7 of you at one time and sliced and diced all of you...including you Ken. I did not need multiple characters to shred you guys to pieces. I was able to get real documents from my friend at the Tollway that proved you guys ALL WRONG. Just like I proved you all wrong when you attempted to say I did not have a daughter who danced. Your credibility and that of your friends borders on ZERO...ZILCH.

Do I need to remind you that I made a Barbie Doll of you at the time. That is why we should not go backwards.

Why are you guys unable to move forward? Try oiling your brains and get them out of the rut they are in. Seriously!

By One Who Values You on August 7, 2009 10:57 PM
Well not that I don't feel for the 55 yr old but every area is raising their taxes. Not unique.

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The unique problem with Naperville is that it added thousands of McMansions to the tax base in recent years and taxes went higher instead of lower. It does not take more money to school the kids of the rich. Actually less money since many of them go to private school.

A town with the number of McMansions that Naperville has should not be struggling to balance the budget. I understand when Cicero, Bellwood, Stone Park, Maywood and Melrose Park are having difficulties. They only have 100k homes paying the taxes for all the services needed including schooling, street repairs and garbage pick up.

But when you have homes between half a million and 5 million dotting your landscape that you are taxing at a 2% rate for real estate taxes, not being able to balance the budget is incomprehensible....unconsionable. Only drunken sailors could screw it up and apparently the people running this town are just that.

Looks like Sybil completely blew following this part of the blog rules:

(4) You won't make false statements. Don't lie or embellish the truth. If you think something is not true, don't say it (and don't ignore indications that something may not be true). This goes for anything you say about another person. Don't defame, libel or disparage anyone. And, always be truthful about yourself. Don't pretend to be another person and don’t access or submit User Content through anyone else’s account and don’t allow others to submit User Content through your account. Do not provide Company’s email to others so that they can submit User Content.

Sybil also wrote:

"PS. You really don't want to get into discussing the Napergate Case with me Former WV Mom."

Of course, he/she/it didn't give the reason, but I will. You don't want to discuss it with him/her/it because keeping track of all the lies will keep one very busy.

Well not that I don't feel for the 55 yr old but every area is raising their taxes. Not unique.

By DONTDODRUGS on August 7, 2009 9:12 PM
I also liked those vacation pictures of you however I thought you said you worked out?

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Obviously, you are another bozo who is clueless as to who I am.

Anyway, the Moderator knows my work out schedule very well. He can tell you where I am heading right now. Seven days a week. It helps me keep my sanity while dealing with all the insane bloggers on this site.

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Thank you very much Former WV Mom for your helpful kitten tips. I really do appreciate your help. I know a good person from a bad person. You are a woman with a truly BIG HEART.

To the many bloggers who don't understand the daughter issue,

I was blogging for a while under the handle Anonymous with Former WV Mom. We were exchanging ideas and I was seeking advice. I did not feel I would be uncovered since I usually blog about high taxes and government waste and had never blogged about family issues before.

Soon, I believe one of the 3 stooges butted in and started alleging I don't have a daughter and this dancing was all in essence made up. If I denied it was me, I would be accused of lying. I was truthful and admitted it was me and this is what led to the daughter issue. So your damned if you do and damned if you don't on this blog site.

Anyway, I felt my credibility was being attacked again. Thus I told a little bit about my daughter in order to prove the stooge and his buddies will attempt to accuse me of lying when I am truthful due to deep hostility they possess towards me. The stooges are not here to blog...they are like pitbulls on the attack at any opportunity. So they need to be tamed at every opportunity.

I feel I said enough about my daughter to destroy the credibility of those who attacked me as making all this up without compromising her identity or mine. Being proud of your daughter is not bragging. Being proud of her team accomplishments is not bragging. Most normal parents are proud of their children when they excel in sport or dancing. Despite being a little troubled due to peer pressure in the PAST, she went for the gold with her superb teammates(who are performing at this very moment) and got it. So it made it extra sweet for me. If you want to call it bragging, be my guest.

Many on this site were alleging that I was a lonely human being who lives in a closet and blogs all day. So I told a little bit about my son in the swim meet, my volunterism, my daily visits to the gym, and my daughter competing for a national title in dancing. I showed that I take vacations and travel and as normal as can be. I will be taking another vacation in Decemeber with the entire family to Hawaii where we can hopefully continue our bonding and love for each other despite our imperfections. All 6 of us. Old and young. So bloggers should really not worry about my lifestyle. They need to worry about their own which appears lacking. (And I will again send a blog or two from Hawaii so that the moderator can verify I am there...and again I will be attacked for daring to take 10 minutes to send a post. Like I said you are damned if you do and damned if you don't on this blog site)

The only problem we have now is we have to find BOTH a dog sitter and a kitten sitter to take our December vacation. It has been very challenging just finding a dog sitter for our dog before vacationing. No one has ever done it twice depsite my offer of 200 dollars per week for the service in THEIR OWN HOME! We refuse to send our dog to a kennel as we feel it is inhumane....very inhumane! (We don't allow anyone to watch our dog in our own home for fear they will have a party in our absence and invite 100 teenagers. We want to have a home when we return from vacation...lol...)

And as for the main reason you used so many handles. It was so you could carry on conversations with each of your pseudonyms to help bolster your weak cases you were trying to make. It was not done in isolation, if anyone goes to the Napergate archive and clicks on any of the many threads they will see all kinds of instances where you carried on conversations, claimed large support, and routinely belittled anyone who disagreed with the "Napergate Group" - as we came to find out was just you.
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This is such a true and accurate account of the nutty he/she/it. The real reason for all the names was to make it appear there were hundreds in agreement, when there was only one person. If you look at it, this would make a good study for a college class on mental health issues regarding bloggers. You are as nutty as they get and you will never be respected, no matter what you write. I also liked those vacation pictures of you however I thought you said you worked out?

Kittens (and cats) hate water. Keep a spray or misting bottle handy and squirt him when he gets on something he isn't supposed to be on.

My husband used to put a little bit of scotch tape on the edges of counters too. It will stick to the cat when it jumps up on it. It doesn't hurt them, but it does drive them nuts. They learn pretty quickly to stay off of where the tape was.

They also love to sit on newspapers, curl up in or on paper bags so give it something like that to sit on near you. Cut a hole in the corner of the paper bag and it will play with you through the hole too.

Make sure to get it checked for worms and get its shots too.

CIJ,
I was not discussing the Napergate case. Go back and look at my post. I was wondering why TB was addressing me about it. I don't live in Naperville and honestly could care less about the Napergate issue. For someone who encourages others to read carefully, you need to take some of your own advice.

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Yes, I owe you another apology. I saw the post under your name and should have looked a little closer to see you were reposting. I usually do but I did miss that it was a repost under your name and I am truly sorry. I hope you understand how I could have easily missed it.

But today, my daughter found a baby domesticated stray kitten abandoned in our back yard and said she really wanted to keep it. So I had to go learn about kittens and shop for her needs while she rushed to her dance performance. Hopefully, she will take responsibiity for her so I can continue blogging with concentration. The kitten was all over my keyboard and distracting me when I was trying to read the blog site and attempting to post. That is why I only had one post all day long and could not respond to most of the bloggers.

I apologize to you again, Former WV Mom. Like I said you are a very good person that was led astray by the 3 stooges. I am sure you will realize it soon. If I was not a decent person, I would not be apologizing to you twice in 2 days for making innocent mistakes.

BTW, do you or anyone else know anything about raising kittens to help me get up to speed so I can have more time to answer the rest of the bloggers....especially on how to keep kittens off of tables and keyboards. This cat is purring and rubbing all over my face so I think I just made a new friend. Now she wants to take my glasses off so I can not blog at all....something a lot of bloggers would wish for....lol..

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PS. On a serious note Former WV Mom, you and One Who Values You should consider yourselves very lucky not to live in Naperville and have to deal with our very high taxes due to the wasteful spending habits of our city officials. I felt very bad for that 55 year old resident who blogged and said he now has to leave Naperville because he can not afford the taxes. How very sad? I wish him luck and he can be assured that we will continue to fight in order to prevent this from happening to more and more senior citizens who love Naperville just as much as our City Officials if not more.

CIJ,
I was not discussing the Napergate case. Go back and look at my post. I was wondering why TB was addressing me about it. I don't live in Naperville and honestly could care less about the Napergate issue.

For someone who encourages others to read carefully, you need to take some of your own advice.

You should probably apologize again now for taking me to task for trying to discuss something I wasn't discussing. I was merely questioning why TB was addressing the post about it to me.

Is there a reason why Chief Dial's entry does not have a comment section this time?????

Once again he just focuses on drivers & not the working on the pedestrians and those on bikes!

Even going the speed limit or lower one can hit someone if the pedestrian or biker is not taking proper safety precautions! People just simply are not looking both ways and giving themselves enough distance from oncoming cars! Kids dart out between bushes right as you are there & not necessarily when you are farther away and going the speed limit in time to stop!

I see so many mothers & fathers who are crossing the streets or in parking lots with their kids dragging behind like a bunch of baby geese following! They should be holding hands, carrying them or in a stroller or basket! There is "carelessness" (seems to be his favorite word!) in BOTH directions! It is NOT always the driver. There are times you can't alway prevent a problem. SUVs have huge blind spots. Even creeping out of a parking place you are not going to see a little 2 year old behind you no matter if you fully turn your head, look in both mirrors etc. I see parents still at their cars & their 2 yr old is already 2 cars down! That is ridiculous & not the driver's fault! Short of having some type of device where if someone crosses in your path (some field laser) and your car alerts you or won't progress (hmm I should invent this!). You are just not going to avoid everything if people who are pedestrians or bicycling do not also watch their safety. Will it reduce it? Sure but lets try even more by mentioning this point also!

About 3 weeks ago I was at a crosswalk in Naperville near the Mongolian Grill. An officer on a bicycle stopped with the light as we started to head across & he thanked the 4 young male teens (about 13-14 yrs old) for not crossing against the light as they had prior apparently. The teens thought it was just too funny. I thanked the officer but the problem is the teens. I have no doubt if he was not there that time they would have done it again & they probably will next time as well. Then you have the massive drinking crowd who just feel they own the road and cross as they please after 6pm. It is like an obstacle course for drivers by Jimmy's Grill & B&N! I say have cameras where the pedestrians get tickets for not stopping! I guess we'll have to get to the point of Demolitian Man & give tickets immediately out of the walls etc everytime there is a violation! But seriously, we need to work on the pedestrians. You know, where I grew up they had a program during the summer where when an officer saw someone doing something the correct way they would give them a coupon for something in the community. Businesses would donate a variety, maybe an ice cream cone or 10% off something, a movie ticket etc. The idea was positive reinforcement to increase correct behavior. Helped to associate officers with positive regard also, especially with children and teens. Has Naperville ever tried something like this?

http://www.suntimes.com/aboutus/submissions.stng

Former WV Mom,

My main issue with the Napergate Case that came to light becuase of the Fustenau Case was the amount the City of Naperville spent defending this case....and the fear that was later realized that it would begin spending money wrecklessly and similarly on the Furstenau Case.

As you may or may not know, the City of Naperville lost, destroyed, misplaced or shredded the records of the costs of the numerous Napergate Cases.

The $75,000 that you and TB refer to is the amount of money he spent on attorneys in State Courts fighting the City of Naperville that he was ordered reimbursed for by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals when the City disobeyed the Federal Circuit Court ruling in his favor. Or maybe disobey is not the right word...felt like appealing may be more proper so I am not accused of exaggerating.

We have learned that the City of Naperville admitted it had spent over a million dollars on the Furstenau Case back in March and it never made it to first base. Not even the jury selection phase was reached in that case. It was dismissed. Much more money was spent after the million dollars. The city admitted one of the lawyers had not been paid a red cent yet despite being involved with the case nearly a year, only half the bills for either Feb. or March have been paid to the rest of the attorneys and there was a way to go. The case was finally settled after 6 more months of haggling. My estimate in this case cost $1.5 million easily.(Moderator Chris....will the Sun ever ask what the final actual number from the City is....it would be nice to see if I am exaggerating or not. If you guys wait to long the records could disappear all over again.)

The $10,000,000 number I have thrown around in the Napergate Case includes the legal fees of the City of Naperville that were disposed. He fought his case in the Naperville Kangaroo Court initially held at City Hall. I believe this was a rather lengthy trial that lasted about two weeks. The city appointed the Judge. The city paid the Judge. The Judge was a full time employee of the Park District and pretty much rubber stamped whatever former Mayor Samuel McCrane wanted him to do. It was a railroading by our former Mayor, City Officials, City Police, Park District Police and our City Lawyers.

From there the case found its way to the Illinios Liquor Control Commission where it was tried again. Then it found its way in Dupage County Court where it was tried yet again. I believe both these courts ruled in favor of the Napergate Man. The City than appealed to the Illinois Appellant Court where it lost 3-0. At that point the City surrendered and made a deal with the Napergate Man. This deal is very different than the deal in Federal Court in which he was awarded his 75,000 for his past legal fees in State Court. I also believe the case TB dug up was only part of the Federal Case where the City did not want to pay his legal fees as part of the settlement so it appears he appealed that part of the case and won. The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals after demanding the city pay his legal fees because they prosecuted and persecuted him wrongfully, sent the case back to the Federal District Court to be continued. That is my understanding from trying to piece it together. I suspect a settlement besides his legal fees was issued for the Civl Rights Violation which was proven. Many of the records on this case are sealed. No one really knows what happened with absolute certainty except for the City of Naperville and the Napergate Man.
And neither is talking which leads me to believe there was an agreement to be quiet. In my opinion, studying the Napergate History, the settlement had to include a silencing clause which is typical in these cases. I don't know for sure.

But one thing I know for sure is they spent million and millions fighting the Napergatge Man. They hired at least 2 outside Chicago Legal Firms and used their 9 member legal staff including Chief Attorney Michael Roth and top Prosecutor Francis Cuneo. Unlike the Furstenau case that was dismissed this case went on for nearly 7 years and went through numerous courts. Do I know it ended up costing 10 million as I am estimating? No, I don't know what it cost to defend and what the settlement was. But I believe it was near there somewhere in the ball park when we all can see a case like Fustenau's that did not even make it to first base cost over 1.5 million.

When someone fights the City of Naperivlle, City Officials are willing to spend like drunken sailors to protect their egos. They SEEM even willing to potentially or possibly frame an innocent man as they did in the 2 week lenghty Napergate Kangaroo Court Trials. Many city employees and especially police officers lined up one after another to testify against the Napergate Man most probably based on a rehearsed scripts given to them by the legal department.

Thankfully, the Napergate Man had the resources, support and financial health and well being to take on the City of Naperville. Most of us would not. Therefore we as citizens have to keep government in check to avoid future fiascos of this sort. We need to always think it could be us next charged wrongfully. The Naperville Sun also needs to keep the City of Naperville in check and not believe each one of its self serving press releases.

I really don't think I exaggerated. You could say, Former WV Mom, that I attempted to "dig" at the city through this blog site to get them to come out and reveal the true cost. They have never denied my "exaggerated" numbers so that to me is some evidence that the cost of the Napergate Trials were horrendous. While my "dig" to bring you out was successful after you said you would never debate me again, I will admit that my "dig" to bring out the City of Naperville has been very unsuccessful. I give them credit for not wanting the Napergate Case aired in public ever again. They want it to remain buried with former Mayor Samuel McCrane for very good reason. However, they have never come clean with the taxpayers so its annonys me like you can not imagine that so much money could be spent and not accounted for. Does it annoy you just a little, Former WV Mom? Honestly! I considered you a very intelligent and honest woman before you succumbed to the pressure of the 3 Stooges on this blog site. Right up there with John Q. Public who also succumbed but seems to be returning to himself....a man I truly respected and beginning to respect more each day all over again..

Keep in mind there was another battle between the Napergate Man and the City of Naperville between 1984-1988 in which the Supreme Court of Illinois ruled in his favor 9-0 and overturned the revocation of his Extra Value Liquor license on Bailey Rd. I have no clue what that case cost...but it certainly was not cheap. The second battle from 1991 involved both of his liquor stores. According to a Sun Article 2 years ago, I recall it stating the Civil Settlement finally came in 2001.(I will try to trace that article and double check the date of the final settlement unless someone can do it quicker than I.) TB's case to the best of my knowledge had a date somewhere in the mid to late nineties. Maybe he can verify that since he is the one who found it and dug it up. I am not very good at reviewing old blogs and really don't have the time as I am always trying to move forward and not backwards like the 3 stooges. (Just for the record, TB is not one of the 3 stooges. He provides a lot of good information to this blog site when he is not in his attack mode.)

One thing for certain is there was no exaggeration in my historical review of the Napergate Cases. I spent many, many evenings at Nicolos Library reviewing this case. It was no easy task. I could never unravel the entire mystery. And the reason for that in my humble opinion and honest belief is there are many sealed parts of this case and it does not help that the City of Naperville destroyed, disposed, shredded or lost the records.

If you don't believe me ask Editor Tim West. He was the one that was told the City of Naperville did not keep records of cost on this case and does not have any records. Mr. West, the most mellow person on this earth, was actually furious with City Officials for at least one day. Kudos to him!

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PS. You really don't want to get into discussing the Napergate Case with me Former WV Mom. I suggest we continue discussing teenagers in town and the very serious heroin problem. I have learned of 2 additional cases of heroin overdoze in the last 24 hours of teenagers. They were not in Naperville but they both took place in the last 2 weeks in nearby suburbs.

Sybil you really should advise your daughter to not post so much personal information on publicly accessible Facebook pages. Between everything you have posted here, finding it was quite easy. It's beyond me why you seem to value your anonymity so much yet you go in to such great detail about all this personal information combined with, um, copious amounts of illegal drug use?

Myrtle Beach looks great by the way, nice photos of the fam'. ;)

Moderator,
Or perhaps someone else, I was thinking about Sybil's 'it's not against the rules' mantra, as recently commented on by Anon. One, and began to wonder - are there rules? Where might one find them, if there are?

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 7, 2009 2:02 AM
What fun is it to be on this blog site if you are not going to be real and honest? Why would I waste my time pretending I have a kid if I did not have one? Why would I pretend I had a daughter who is a great dancer if I did not?

That was the main reason I used so many handles. It really was not necessary in hindsight.
________________

Pretending to be / do / or have something never stopped you before.

And as for the main reason you used so many handles. It was so you could carry on conversations with each of your pseudonyms to help bolster your weak cases you were trying to make. It was not done in isolation, if anyone goes to the Napergate archive and clicks on any of the many threads they will see all kinds of instances where you carried on conversations, claimed large support, and routinely belittled anyone who disagreed with the "Napergate Group" - as we came to find out was just you.

So you keep complaining that we bring up the past, but you still use false statements in your postings yet today where you maintain that you did nothing wrong. I know you will probably recite the rule that "you can have different handles", but for you to deny that your different handles all carried on conversations with each other and was used to bolster your claims of support ("500 Napergatians"!!) is disingenuous at best.

MHB,

One more thought on the question of why people might be interested in identifying you. Who one is is relevant to what one writes. If you didn't agree, you wouldn't so often accuse your opponents of being city employees.

-JQP

By T.B. on August 7, 2009 9:16 AM
Former WV Mom —

MHB stated: “I never exaggerated once. I did not even know he had won his Civil Rights Case until T.B. did the research as it appears the huge settlement called for his permanent silence.”

I never stated that the Napergate Man’s settlement called for his silence and I don’t believe the settlement contained this language. The Napergate Man’s silence is not proof of a gag order. Maybe one of MHB’s many personalities could see him walking his dog again and ask him to come out of “retirement”?

Also, I believe the Napergate Man’s “huge” settlement was about $75K to cover his legal fees. So much for never exaggerating.

T.B.
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May I ask why this is directed to me?

Sybil said: Maybe they were not serious when they said they consider us Citizen Journalists.

I am doing what a newspaper asked me to do but the newspaper is not listening.

Sybil,
No, they weren't serious. That was an attempt to stop the bickering, not a job offer. Really, this is another one of those hobby horses you continually use, and it's time to give it a rest. You've neither investigative, nor a journalist. No one on a blog site is. Please, consider stopping using that phrase, as it's meaningless, and makes you look a bit foolish, since everyone else understood what was meant by it, in context. As you may recall, the suggestion was made to quiet you down, and others, too. It was a dig at your methods of posting. Only you, on this site, would take such a thing as a call to arms.
You think that you're doing what you were asked, and some of the things you have brought up have been useful, good and even interesting. But then you ride your point into the ground, by posting slight revisions over, and over and over again.

Really - would you take yourself seriously on a site like this? I'm not sure what kind of pleasure you take from creating personae and 'fictional characters'* but you must understand by now that whatever you're trying to accomplish here is repeatedly undermined by how you go about posting.
Might it be time to reconsider some of the things you do? Might it be time to reconsider the way that you go about some of these things?

* I will always object to this phrase

Keyboard Rambo asked:

What's the most puzzling to me about this is why someone would come on a public forum like this and essentially brag that their daughter is on some kind of dance troupe (where they no doubt have stringent drug free policies) and is constantly abusing drugs? How does that even make sense?

I think the answer to that question is that MHB is way too confident that the tricks he's used to throw people off his track are working and will work forever. He should bear in mind the words (falsely?) attributed to Abraham Lincoln: You can fool some of the people some of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

-JQP

Former WV Mom —

MHB stated: “I never exaggerated once. I did not even know he had won his Civil Rights Case until T.B. did the research as it appears the huge settlement called for his permanent silence.”

I never stated that the Napergate Man’s settlement called for his silence and I don’t believe the settlement contained this language. The Napergate Man’s silence is not proof of a gag order. Maybe one of MHB’s many personalities could see him walking his dog again and ask him to come out of “retirement”?

Also, I believe the Napergate Man’s “huge” settlement was about $75K to cover his legal fees. So much for never exaggerating.

T.B.

I would guess that by considering you citizen journalists on here, they mean that the info then will be covered here on the blog thanks to that citizen journalist, not that the newspaper will then send a reporter out to cover an event.
Again, it doesn't take much effort to send a press release. And an official press release coming from an organization, club, team, etc. will be taken more seriously and be delivered to the people that matter more than an anonymous citizen typing on a blog. (Although all of these kinds of things are going to take a back seat to any breaking news.)
By sending a press release, the paper, if it decides to cover the event after weighing it against other things it has received official notification about, can then assign a reporter or hire a freelancer to cover the story.

Moderator Chris, have I got this straight on how things work?

"When a newspaper can not find time to cover a national champion sports or dance team from its community, I feel the newspaper is failing its readers. That is my opinion.
I am sure no one agrees with me as usual."
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CIJ- I do agree with you that Xtreme Dance is more than newsworthy. Heck, on Tuesday the Sun had a full page dedicated to Hunter Jumper competition at the DuPage Co. Fair. Maybe because Xtreme Dance is not a non-profit, they won't invest in the reporting. But at any rate, congratulations and good luck this weekend.

BHO writes:

It was me personally who felt that the local community should know more about them. I think it is the community that is at a loss for not knowing more about this great champion Dance Group.

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But you have done so much here to promote the great news about Xtreme and what is going on with them. The dance and the extra curricular activities of its young members. Xtreme must be so proud to have you on board!

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 7, 2009 1:15 AM

When a newspaper can not find time to cover a national champion sports or dance team from its community, I feel the newspaper is failing its readers. That is my opinion.

I am sure no one agrees with me as usual.

**********************************

Actually I do agree with you on this point. The local newspapers would rather report on the negative side of our youth rather than the positive. They will dutifully follow and give column inches of space to one delinquent, but give no recognition to 50 kids who give their heart and soul for their passion.

11 ticketed at party after son defies father
Teen: Change my plea in killing
Teen charged with battering Naperville cop

By John Q. Public on August 6, 2009 11:11 PM
MHB,

I have no reason to doubt you have a daughter in Xtreme Dance. Why you should not reveal this kind of information is that it dramatically narrows the range of possibilities of who you might be.

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You are very correct. But I also don't intend to live in a closet and be paranoid day and night. When you open a business you take a risk and hope you succeed. It is not foolproof that one succeeds. I enjoy blogging. I plan on remaining anonymous. But it is not foolproof and someone could compromise the privacy I enjoy one day. But so far for 3.5 years I have succeeded. I have thrown a few bones here and there to confuse bloggers who have interest in tracking me down and it has worked.

On the other hand I like to be active. I am also trying to use this blog site to promote such things as Tax Protests, Dance Competitions, Causes, and at the same time learn how to raise kids.

If I was not honest with Former WV Mom, how could I use her advice to help me. She seemed like a level headed lady who gives good advice. I was picking her brain so I could see how I could be a better parent in raising my kid. I learn a lot everyday both on this blog and off this blog about parenting.

Parenting is the hardest job in America especially with the bad elements in society and the peer pressure they deal with. I have struggled but I see light at the end of the tunnel with my 2 daughters. I hope my 2 sons don't put me through what my daughters put me through. At least they are telling me they won't.

What fun is it to be on this blog site if you are not going to be real and honest? Why would I waste my time pretending I have a kid if I did not have one? Why would I pretend I had a daughter who is a great dancer if I did not? There really are a lot of small minded bloggers on this thread at the moment. As the Moderator stated they act like Kindergarten Children and have not changed. If they like to attack so much they should buy the video game, WarCraft, and shoot down enemy planes.

Imagine someone promoting the water polo team at NNHS while he did not have a son or daughter on it. It makes no sense. So if you are promoting the water polo team and you claim you have no affiliation of any kind with it, one could easily conclude you are lying and probably be right.

I wanted to promote this Dance Team. They made me proud. Why would I hide the fact that my daughter is one of 50 top dancers? I think more than the top team of this studio will be dancing in St. Charles this weekend. I am sure their B team and C team will have a performance or two since it is an exhibition. It really is not that easy to identify me from one of 50 dancers who is my daughter.

Now if my daughter was doing a solo that would be a different story and a very dumb thing to do if you don't want to be identified. You could say I am taking a minor calcualted risk and it has worked for me for 3.5 years. Plus, I might have Moderator Chris as a back-up as he may choose to respect my privacy if someone wants to do some guessing.

And no Experienced was clueless to who I was. I strung him along a little into believing he may know who I am. I wasted his time and I will waste the time of anyone else who is looking for clues from me. I enjoy throwing bones in the wrong direction to wolves who may be pursuing me.

Personally, I do not understand why people just don't blog about the subject topics. Why people have to attack each other?

I was blogging with Former WV Mom using a newly created handle in order to protect my identity as much as possible. Unfortunately, at some point someone was able to sniff me out. To deny it was ME would do no good and I would be accused of lying. Why go there? If someone sniffs me out these days from my wrting style, I just quickly admit it. I don't think it gets anyone any closer to finding out who I am in real life so it does not bother me as much as it did in the past when I mistakenly thought it would get someone closer to identifying me. That was the main reason I used so many handles. It really was not necessary in hindsight.

But I really wish people would let me blog and not worry about seeking my identity. I just feel my family and I should have a right to privacy. That is why I am writing on a blog site instead of Letters to the Editor.

By Anonymous on August 6, 2009 10:56 PM
All newspapers have had major cuts in staffing over the last few years. As a result, sports teams (club and high school), dance teams or schools, as well as anything else that is considered an extracurricular activity will need to promote themselves.

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I understood this from former Moderator Jim Lynch and Host Ted Slovick. They asked us to help by being Citizen Journalists for the Naperville Sun.

I have attemtped to do that. Maybe they were not serious when they said they consider us Citizen Journalists.

I am doing what a newspaper asked me to do but the newspaper is not listening. Nothing I can do about that.

These kids and this dance studio are apparently doing very well with or without the Sun. They compete nationally and win national championships. They are currently performing their national dance routines for the Chicagoland Area to capacity or near capacity crowds in a large auditorium.

They appear very well connected. They probably don't need me promoting them or the Naperville Sun.

It was me personally who felt that the local community should know more about them. I think it is the community that is at a loss for not knowing more about this great champion Dance Group.

When a newspaper can not find time to cover a national champion sports or dance team from its community, I feel the newspaper is failing its readers. That is my opinion.

I am sure no one agrees with me as usual.

JQP-

I've been to a few meetings down at City Hall where I've heard a crazy old man talking to the various city officials following the meetings with the same old tired "blah blah blah NPD blah blah blah wazoo" garbage. I'm 90% sure I could pick out Sybil at this dance competition, assuming it turns out to be the same person. (Which it likely is because how many people have the word "wazoo" in their everyday dialect?)

What's the most puzzling to me about this is why someone would come on a public forum like this and essentially brag that their daughter is on some kind of dance troupe (where they no doubt have stringent drug free policies) and is constantly abusing drugs? How does that even make sense?

I guess I can't say I'm that surprised, Sybil has been digging a hole for himself on this blog since the Napergate days. Must be half way to China by now. Anyone up for a Potluck meetup in St. Charles this weekend? The competition costs $15 to get in, but I suppose we could probably write that off on our taxes under a citizen investigative journalism related expense.

Here is where it's being held. Starts at 7 PM. I'll bring my magnifying glass, fedora, trench coat, and other investigative equipment. Think we'll need to dust for prints? Someone needs to bring one of those old style cameras with the obnoxiously large flash bulbs. Anything less isn't conducive to proper investigative journalism.

MHB,

I have no reason to doubt you have a daughter in Xtreme Dance. Why you should not reveal this kind of information is that it dramatically narrows the range of possibilities of who you might be.

Why would anyone would care about it? Well, you have a history and a reputation on Potluck that is in a category by itself, and it's natural that others might be curious to know who you are. As you know, the topic has surfaced a few times, now, and more than one person has hinted that he or she knows who you are. I have no idea if Experienced, as one example, really did discover your identity, but I absolutely do agree with one thing he/she said on the subject: you have not been careful in how you've used the Internet. In fact, you've been too clever by half. If you're lucky, though, time might cover some of your tracks.

I can tell by your appeal to the Moderator that it still really is important to you to remain anonymous, so you'd be well-advised in the future to be more careful than other bloggers, and certainly more careful than you've been.

-JQP

All newspapers have had major cuts in staffing over the last few years. As a result, sports teams (club and high school), dance teams or schools, as well as anything else that is considered an extracurricular activity will need to promote themselves. Most papers do not have the same number of permanent staff anymore and often rely on freelancers to cover much of the athletic events during the school year on an event by event basis. That means in the summer, those freelancers just don't get any assignments. (I went to high school with Kevin McGavin who often covers sports for a few different local papers as a freelancer.)

Reporting on a blog is merely notifying other blog readers. There is information on the website for how to submit press releases and other information.
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/aboutus/NA_Contactus.static

There is just not enough staff nowadays for them to be seeking out all that information constantly. Make it a bit easier and send it directly to them. Or quit complaining about the lack of coverage.

By Anonymous ONE on August 6, 2009 12:26 PM
Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 11:38 PM

2. Now you keep the same handle, but change your story all the time? It's hard to keep up with you and is the reason no one believes anything you say and why you can't seem to figure out why. If you could stick to the same story each time it would be better, no matter what handle you use.

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Hey Stooge One,

I have not changed my story. I have only told the truth. I am sorry you can not keep up or are having memory lapses. When was the last time you had a test for Alzheimer's Disease?

Yes, a gang of stooges has questioned what I say, and through peer pressure influenced non-thinkers, but I have provided proof over and over again to show they are simply libeling me when they say I lie. And of course losing their credibility in the process.

Take a break from living in a closet and go witness the Xtreme Dance Performance this weekend. Get a life! Stop spewing your hatred and throwing stones on this blog site like a wimp. If you want to attack others, be brave enough to reveal your identity. Otherwise blog about the topics and issues that concern Napervillians as I do.

By John Q. Public on August 6, 2009 3:48 PM

If you are not lying about your daughter (I'm not going to venture an opinion), then you are being unwise to talk about her on this website---at least if you are still interested in remaining anonymous to as many people as possible. Every time you disclose personal information here about yourself or your family, you make it more likely that bloggers will be able to identify you.

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1. I am surprised you would even think I am lying about my daughter. I painted her as the imperfect person she is, while debating Former WV Mom who gave me lots of good advice. Even though I stated she is a great dancer, I admitted she once smoked marijuana. I never exaggerated and stated she is one of the top 3-5 of this talented group that will go pro. (BTW, I believe that I have been able to convince my daughter to quit marijuana and she may have quit permanently...I have my fingers crossed though. She once smoked cigarettes and I convinced her to quit and she has been cig-free for over 18 months now...real proud of her for quitting those cancer sticks. She obviously has very strong will power in both directions. She is a mini-project but I love her to death.)

2. I revealed she was going to compete nationally before she and her team won the National Championship. They won it live where all could watch. They could have easily lost. I did however predict they would win on this blog site. I am glad I was right as the competition was fierce and after seeing it I did not think this Xtreme Dance Team would win for a 4th consecutive year. The Judges who were brought in from across the country obviously can evaluate talent better than I can.

3. I am not talking about my daughter on this Web Site. I am talking about a team of 50 great dancers of which she is only ONE. Someone would have to do some real investigative work to tie my daughter who is anonymous to me who is also anonymous.

4. The question I have is why do people care to find out who I am??? This is a an anonymous blog site. I am here anonymously because I am not interested in being a public figure or known publicly. One of the reasons I changed my handle frequently in the past was to increase the chances of remaining ANONYMOUS. Since my style of writing has become very identifiable after 3.5 years this strategy no longer works, unfortunately.

5. I am not a criminal running from the law. My daughter is not a criminal running from the law. Why should we have massive fear if someone figured out through a 1 in a million chance who we were? No one should be trying to find out who we are! Am I trying to find out who anyone else on this blog site is? Of course not. Why all the talk about "if we find out who you are." Big deal, if you find out who I am. I am an ordinary Naperville Citizen who has no criminal record of any sort....somewhat successful with challenging kids who I am trying to parent. How am I different than any other parent in town except for maybe Former WV Mom? (JKWY)

6. I am disclosing very little personal information about myself or my children. Former WV Mom told us a lot about her children. What did I do differently? No one is seeking out her kids and no one should be seeking out my kids.

7. In the one in a million probability somebody eventually finds out who I am, it is my hope that Moderator Chris will respect my privacy and that of my family, and not reveal my identity. This blog is suppose to be about anonymous people discussing and debating issues that concern them. That is what we are doing here. Discussing serious issues so we can all learn from each other and become better people.

8. Finally, I would like to ask Moderator Chris, that in the very rare event somebody identifies me which is possible, is he willing to keep my identity confidential by not posting it?

Thank you.

By Former WV Mom on August 6, 2009 4:05 PM
It is not possible for the Naperville Sun to keep tabs on every dance group, club athletic team, etc. in the area. (Xtreme is not the ony successful dance studio in the area.) They cover high school sports as part of their beat, but aren't able to cover every single event.

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I agree with you. However the Naperville Sun asked us to be Citizen Journalists and keep them abreast of news and activities. I have done exactly what they asked.

I have tipped them off. They could call the Xtreme Dance Studio which is in Naperville to verify or get more information. They could check its web site. I have informed them they are performing at 7pm today, tomorrow, Saturday and 4pm Sunday. They could announce it in the newspaper. People are willing to spend 15 dollars to watch these awesome teenagers and will be coming from all over Chicagoland to the Norris Cultural Arts Center in St. Charles, Illiniois. During the National Finals Sun Officials were tipped and could have assigned a reporter to watch it live on the World Wide Web where it was broadcast.

This dance studio should be able to raise a 6 digit figure this weekend to help them to continue to improve and compete nationally. Unlike, the Naperville High School Football Teams they are not subsidized by the taxpayers of Naperville. They don't get a red penny from the cultural fund of Naperville like the NPD and they have more to do with culture and arts than the NPD. They are self-sufficient. That is something to be proud of in this day and age. I am sure "Resident over 55 Years of Age" would be proud that these teenagers are not costing the taxpayers one single dime yet bringing regional and national recognition to Naperville. Ironically, they have yet to earn LOCAL RECOGNITION. Am I the only one that thinks this is unusual? What is your opinion, Moderator Chris, if you have an opinion?

I don't think people should seek their own recognition. Recognition should come to those who deserve it....to those who earn it. In my opinion this Dance Studio deserves it. I doubt they will ever call the Sun for attention or recognition. They have been on national magazine covers and national TV shows but never covered in the Naperville Sun to the best of my knowledge. Is it really that hard for one reporter from the Sun to attend one of their performances this weekend? It is not even football or basketball season so I doubt their reporters are on that beat yet. The high schools are closed. How busy could they possibly be, Former WV Mom? I am sure if the Sun Reporter introduced herself and told them she would like to cover them, they would waive the $15 admission charge for her and be thrilled she came. Of course I don't speak for the studio but I believe that would happen.(Just for the record I am in no way affiliated with this studio other than having a daughter who is a long term member in very good standing.)

There is a big difference between being a successful studio in Naperville and 4 time National Champions. This year they had to go through Detroit and Minneapolis to get to Myrtle Beach. They are not an ordinary studio. They remind me of John Wooden's UCLA teams. Anyone in Naperville can go watch this very talented dance team this weekend and judge for themselves how amazing they are. I don't believe any other dance studio in Naperville even made it to a local or regional competition let alone a national one. I don't even know if any other dance studio fields a team that competes regionally or nationally. This is not an easy task. Trust me.

While I am a little biased because my daughter is on this team, I nonetheless think this Dance Team deserves "team recognition." None of these dancers would be interested in "personal recognition." They are all about team, competing and succeeding.

Anyway, I plan on watching 2 of their perfomances this weekend even though I have seen it all in Myrtle Beach. It is hard to get enough of these talented and beautiful Naperville kids. And no, they are not perfect, but who is perfect?

And finally remember what the Bible says about those who throw stones. Please think twice before you throw the next stone at this studio or its dancers. They are not perfect, but they are undoubtedly the BEST in the USA.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 6, 2009 1:57 PM

You guys are really amazing. I admit my daughter has done marijuana in the past and you want the Dance Troupe investigated and tested. Maybe every school in Naperville should be investigated and closed down because certain students use marijuana and other drugs. Maybe the North Carolina basketball team and the University of Florida football team should be dismantled because a member or members smoked marijuana which is 99.99% likely.
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Where have you been? That's exactly what's happening now. The IHSA is testing at all state finals. Why should the dancers be exempt? From your description of what's happening at your home while the dancers are there, it is more important to test them than the athletes. If you as a parent can't get a handle on your daughter--and it's not just in the past as you said you haven't been able to get her to quit yet--then maybe the sponsors of the competitions need to step in to make sure what's going on under their auspices. Maybe "hopped up" kids have an unfair advantage at hip hop!

Writing comments of what is wrong with Naperville and our government is completely useless - no one who needs to listen is listening!

I am a senior resident and am very tired of having to pay high taxes in Naperville especially for the schools in District 203 and 204. I worked in District 204 for over 25 years and know how much is wasted - yet, our school board members get elected and they no nothing of what is really going on.

This new plan District 203 is planning to do with the stimulus money they are receiving is a complete waste of money and our TAX money. An alternative school is not needed. What is needed is for teachers to do their job and help students who are having a problem and for parents to bring their children up right. If they open another alternative school (District 204 has one that District 203 uses also) what happens next year when there is no stimulus money to support this school. How much more is it going to cost tax payers?

I see in the paper where the county is trying to decide where to put affordable housing. If they decide to put it in Naperville - this will only bring in more welfare people and this will cost seniors more taxes on their property so these kids can go to the Naperville 203 and 204 schools. Has anyone ever checked on how much is really given to welfare people? Kids get free lunches at school plus alot of extras because they are on welfare - I like to know why since the welfare money their family receives should take care of all their expenses. Has anyone got an answer for this. Our taxes are so high now that we cannot afford to stay in Naperville. This is completely wrong. Why not give seniors a break and eliminate school taxes - this would keep seniors in Naperville and less kids in the schools. However, the businesses all want more people in Naperville and so does the city - this brings in more money for them. Naperville was in much better shape 40 years ago - we have become too big and we do not enjoy going into Naperville for an evening. It is too bad that George Pradel, who has lived in Naperville his whole life, supports all this - what a shame.

As far as I am concerned, our government, city of Naperville, and politicians all want money and do not care how they get it. Writing "Letters to the Editor" is a complete mistake. It goes in one ear and out the other because no one who needs to listen is listening!

It is not possible for the Naperville Sun to keep tabs on every dance group, club athletic team, etc. in the area. (Xtreme is not the ony successful dance studio in the area.) They cover high school sports as part of their beat, but aren't able to cover every single event. I know with the cross country, tennis and track teams at WV, the coaches (or athletic director) submitted results to the different area papers if a reporter was not there. When it came to traveling or club teams my kids were involved in, someone always submitted the results, reporters did not attend and cover the event. When my husband coached, he or I submitted the results to the papers.

If Xtreme Dance wants coverage, then they need to have someone sending press releases to the paper, both in advance of and after competitions. There is most likely someone working there that handles clerical tasks. Otherwise, a parent who is involved could also serve this purpose. The same process would be in place for the Daily Herald, the Sun Times, Chicago Tribune, Beacon News, Kane County Chronicle, etc.

Using different handles, some of which may be somewhat fictional, in and of its own is not lying. A fictional character who claims to be in a profession that the blogger is not in, and then posting in ways to speak for that profession - that is lying.

MHB,

If you are not lying about your daughter (I'm not going to venture an opinion), then you are being unwise to talk about her on this website---at least if you are still interested in remaining anonymous to as many people as possible. Every time you disclose personal information here about yourself or your family, you make it more likely that bloggers will be able to identify you. And for those who may already have identified you...well, I know you think this hasn't happened yet, but why would you take chances? Every time before you hit the Submit button you should ask yourself if the message you are about to send is the same message you would write if you were posting with your real name.

-JQP

BHO writes:

My daughter is only one of 50 spectacular dancers. If you snoop around too much or ask too many questions expect to be confronted by security and/or the St. Charles police and possibly arrested for stalking or attempeting to stalk. Be smart. Enjoy the spectacular performance and don't attempt to intrude on the privacy of my daughter or any of the other 49 spectacular teenage dancers.

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Now wait, who is to be smart and not intrude on the privacy of who's daughter? That possibility jumped the shark long ago. Be smart? I don't think Sybil is able to be common sense smart. Internet anonymous smart in regards to his/her "daughter". Once again just looking for attention. Pitiful. The St. Charles police will get involved with security if questions are asked about the dancers? Whatever, perhaps they will all be asked to pee in a cup as they drive away from the show. What, get behind the wheel with traces in their system? Let me think...what does Jessie White say about that?

Hey, BHO--why don't you get the names of the weed dealers that are supplying your daughter and go after them as you did that other kid in your neighborhood. What? It might come back to your daughter? How much does she have in her room/car right now? Paraphernalia? And you think the cops would let her go, as she is self-medicating for pain? Ok, yeah. If you were my mom/dad I would be self medicating as well.

Hey, XTreme? Aren't you pleased to have this kind of PR, as your winning team comes home?

You guys are really amazing. I admit my daughter has done marijuana in the past and you want the Dance Troupe investigated and tested. Maybe every school in Naperville should be investigated and closed down because certain students use marijuana and other drugs. Maybe the North Carolina basketball team and the University of Florida football team should be dismantled because a member or members smoked marijuana which is 99.99% likely.

I have no fear that if my daughter is detected that she will not be arrested for having used marijuana in the past to deal with her pain. The NPD should and probably has more interest in arresting the drug dealers and heroin and cocaine users in town.

Anyway, I don't exaggerate. I had said Xtreme Dance won the National Championship for 2007, 2008 and 2009. I recently found out they won the Championship in 2006 before my daughter qualified for the Xtreme Dance Force which is the top Dance Troupe in that studio that competes nationally. There are a few hundred dancers in this studio and the top 50 who are mostly 19 with a few 18 year and 17 year olders compose the top group known as the FORCE whom won the National Championship.

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Anyway, for all those doubters and those who are curious, Xtreme Dance Force is back from Myrtle Beach and will be putting on a Celebration Dance Showcase for Chicagoland at the Norris Cultural Arts Center in St. Charles, Illiniois. They will be performing the same dances that they performed in Myrtle Beach that got them 2 first places and 2 second places in 4 different categories of hip hop and jazz. They will also be performing the Brittany Xtreme Spears hip hop dance which came in first overall in all categories out of 700 dances over 5 long days and won them the Victory World Trophy and National Championship.

The perfomances will be today, tomorrow and Saturday at 7pm each day. On Sunday it will be at 4pm. Tickets are 15 dollars at the door. The reason they have 4 perfomances is to accomdate the thousands that love to watch them and want to honor them for their accomplishments. Get there early if you want to be sure to get in as historically they have sold out most of their performances. The new auditorium at NCC was way too small for the kind of audience they are capable of drawing so it was not considered. I guess this is one group that could easily pack the 2700 Omnia Theater if it was ever built especially if Xtreme Dance got a little support from the Naperville Sun. They apparently are not seeking it and do not need it, but I as a blogger have tried to seek it for them anonymously. I just think Napervillians and the Naperville Sun should be proud of a Dance Group that works so hard and wins National Championships. You can all continue saying I am lying, but you can see you are all WRONG. Continue questioning my credibility with nonsensical words while I provide the facts that show you are all WRONG...once again. As I have always said using fictional characters as handles does not mean you lie. That is so silly and immature that so many are naive to think and believe that.

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My daughter is only one of 50 spectacular dancers. If you snoop around too much or ask too many questions expect to be confronted by security and/or the St. Charles police and possibly arrested for stalking or attempeting to stalk. Be smart. Enjoy the spectacular performance and don't attempt to intrude on the privacy of my daughter or any of the other 49 spectacular teenage dancers.

No, you were already calling me naive, magical, etc before I had any confirmation of who you were. The other bloggers merely confirmed what I already suspected. I was done with you at the time because no matter how I made and proved my point you had to come back with something to try and demean me. It's how you seem to operate with everyone. Again, while you said it was a respectful debate, and I definitely started out being respectful, you never truly treated me respectfully. There was always a little dig in whatever you were saying. That was why I was getting tired of you. I was tired of you trying to say that the immense work my husband and I put into parenting our children, the amount of thought my husband and I put into everything we did, was merely a matter of luck.

While I will agree that other people on here may not always behave their best, the more and more I read your posts, I do feel you are among the worst and as a result anything valid you might have to say gets lost in the garbage of the rest of it. Using digs to get someone to debate is not an adult way to act either. And I do feel pretending to be something you are not (a fireman for example) is not either.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 11:38 PM
We lost a teenager in March and one in July. Both are dead and gone forever. Their familes are grieving. Do you think this is not a BIG ISSUE. And how many heroin overdoze cases do we not know about? Could the suicide victim of July 24 have commited suicide using heroin? It appears to be an easy way to commit suicide...just take a large dozage and you are certain to die.

No one in my family is part of the heroin problem. How dare you make such a false allegation? My family fights the heroin problem in town.

...........My daughter and his father provided names of suspect heroin suspect dealers to the police. We are doing our part.

__________________________

I actually do think it is a big deal and now we know that your daughter had been part of the problem in town. Now you claim that she has given the police the names of the heroin dealers - Do you think that just maybe a heroin dealer may be a little vindictive toward someone who turned them in? If I had a daughter on the Xtreme dance team I would be very upset to know that one of the "dancers" is an illegal drug user who has turned in suppliers of the product. I would be fearful of retribution.

It's comical now that you have such empathy for the families of the recent deaths - a week ago you were criticizing the Sun for not doing stories on this tragedy and drawing it more into the open.

Your story changes with every posting, so while you no longer use a different name each time you post, you change your story each time as you get yourself deeper and deeper in.

So I guess your methods on this blog have been twofold:
1. You previously changed your handle all the time but discussed the Napergate Man almost exclusively.
2. Now you keep the same handle, but change your story all the time? It's hard to keep up with you and is the reason no one believes anything you say and why you can't seem to figure out why. If you could stick to the same story each time it would be better, no matter what handle you use. It's always been easy enough to figure out its you.

I'm in agreement with GJC who hit it on the head yesterday: (GJC on August 5, 2009 2:39 PM)

By Former WV Mom on August 5, 2009 5:31 PM
You know what... you are again acting in a way that is totally uncalled for. You are insulting me for absolutely no reason. I believe you owe me an apology although I am sure I won't get one.

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Before you knew I was the MHB, you and I had some very nice, polite, civil and informative discussions. I had a lot of respect for you and told you so. You appeared to have a lot of respect for you. I took some of your advice and applied it to my children.

As soon as a blogger after a few days detected that I was the MHB and told you, your whole demeanor changed. You succumbed to blog pressure just like kids succumb to peer pressure. You decided to join the gang that attacks me and lowered yourself to their level.

There is a large group here that has it in for me because I enjoy using multi-handles. Something permitted by this blog site. Yes, I was BHO for a few weeks. Big Deal. I was just trying to get in his mind. I was being satirical and humorous. If anyone believed I was the real President, I would have to say they have loose screws. Yes, I went to the library and researched the Napergate Man and his 3500 followers. I told the story I read in a very honest manner using fictional characters. I never lied once in telling this true historical occurrence. I never exaggerated once. I did not even know he had won his Civil Rights Case until T.B. did the research as it appears the huge settlement called for his permanent silence. Probably why we will never hear from him again. Probably why city supporters spread rumors that he moved to Arizona.

Big deal again. If anyone living in this town for 10 years or more is not aware that this Napergate Movement shut down in 2001, again I say they have loose screws or maybe simply living in a closet.

To try to portray me as a dishonest person just because I use multi-handles is inappropriate. Have I ever lied in my life. Of course, but very rarely and very regretfully.

That is the story, Former WV Mom. If you want to succumb to this blog peer pressure, that is OK. I can handle it. You will be #101 of those who enjoy attacking me as they think this blog site is a video war game. No big deal.

But the point I am trying to make, is let us not pretend I am not a good parent because peer pressure sometimes has been more powerful than parental pressure with my kids and other kids. How can you expect kids not to fall for peer pressure when you fell for it right on this blog site? And I hope you caught my apology to you when I was mistaken. No need to try to be nasty in your communications with me.

That is my 2 cents worth to you. Have a nice day!

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PS. The "dig" I made towards you was not an insult. It was a way to bring you out to debate since I enjoy debating you. If you recall, you said you were done debating me after you succumbed to peer pressure. I just used a little pyscholgoy on you to bring you back out. I like debating intelligent people like yourself. I hope you don't think I am here to debate the 3 stooges, Anonymous One, Keyboard Rambo and Fed Up with His own Noise.

MHB wrote:

As I said my daughter caught an acquaintence with heroin, threw the heroin out and called the teenager's father. How many times do I have to repeat myself before anyone listens or comprehends? My daughter and his father provided names of suspect heroin suspect dealers to the police. We are doing our part.

How many times? Well, once would help. While you've mentioned your daughter's intervention in her friend's attempted use of heroin several times, this is the first time that you've said that she actually talked to the police about it.

-JQP

MHB,

I did not mean to imply that you were saying that marijuana for non-medical purposes is legal in Illinois. I inadvertently left out the word "medical" in my post.

But you are still playing the semantics game here. If you read the entire page on the DEA site it's pretty clear that they are referring to Marinol as "medical marijuana" not because it actually is the same thing as marijuana, but only to counter the arguments of those who are trying to get production and consumption of the marijuana plant legalized for medical purposes. The DEA's argument is that there is already a legal pharmaceutical product that contains (or synthesizes?) the active ingredient in marijuana; that smoking or otherwise consuming the marijuana plant confers no medical benefits in addition to those offered by Marinol; and that marijuana has unhealthful side-effects that Marinol does not. Make no mistake though: marijuana is a plant; Marinol is a drug derived from the active ingredient in the marijuana plant. They are not one and the same.

-JQP

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 4:25 PM

Where is Former WV Mom who introduced this HIPPA argument, to explain how the police and Sun revealed the name in one case and not the other? She usually has all the answers. I guess this time she has NO ANSWERS!
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Let's face it, that right there was a dig and an insult. You have said previously that we were having a respectful debate. I believe I was having a respectful debate, you were not. Every chance you had you would say something to try and make it seem as if I was naive, just lucky, or possessed with magic powers. All in an attempt to make you seem better. At this point, others know who was the better parent. At this point, the more you have posted, the less respect I have for you. For someone who stated they were "no tolerance" you seem to tolerate quite a bit.

The score should probably be Former WV Mom: 2 (after all I have two kids make it so far without doing anything illegal or having any friends steal from our home) and You: -2. Maybe you'll be lucky and your younger ones won't follow the older ones patterns. But at this point it will most likely be luck, not parenting that makes the difference for you.

I wonder how the champion X-Treme Naperville dance troupe feels about this type of illegal substance abuse public relations nightmare going on right here on the Naperville Sun Blog. If this young woman does indeed exist, and she spends 5 hours or more a day with her dance troupe peers, are we to assume she is the only one using and abusing chemical cocktails within the troupe? Wouldn't many of the girls be close friends and influence each other's behavior? Maybe they are all in pain and need relief through chemistry. Are we to assume it's only marijuana that the troupe is abusing? Do they function under the same rules and standards as other athletic teams in Naperville regarding alchohol, drugs and doping? Why hasn't she been kicked off the troupe? Sybil wants this group recognized for their athletic abilities as other althetic teams are. Should the troupe be tested? Convenient how this girl turned 19 and not a minor before our eyes as we read here, no?

And, it would not be difficult at all to find this young woman with the info we have been provided. Narrows things down pretty quickly. It's been said before, she does not exist anywhere but here, where the troll thinks he/she guards the bridge. This is the only reason she could not be identified.

First of all, WebMD defines chronic pain as pain that persists for three months or more, not just pain that accompanies an athletic or dance event (even if made more severe due to a medical condition). A dancer would never be prescribed medical marijuana under the circumstances described on this thread.

I think everyone but one person agrees that Marinol is not medical marijuana.

However, if you want to equate Marinol with marijuana, then this same logic would indicate that Marinol is not safer than other pain relievers for the same reasons marijuana isn’t safe:

 Impaired memory and ability to learn
 Difficulty thinking and problem solving
 Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia
 Impaired muscle coordination and judgment
 Increased susceptibility to infections
 Dangerous impairment of driving skills. Studies show that it impairs braking time, attention to traffic signals and other driving behaviors.
 Cardiac problems for people with heart disease or high blood pressure, because marijuana increases the heart rate

Marijuana also causes fertility problems in both men and women and, most importantly, can be addictive.

I can see how the anxiety, impaired muscle coordination, and danger of addiction makes marijuana the perfect drug for a dancer.

T.B.

Source: http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/marijuana.htm

And I wonder about some of my college students when they have parents like this? OMG! Actually it does explain quite a bit.

Lets see... if we went to XTREME one day & asked just one girl there...hey do you know the girl with scoliosis do you think they may give the name or point her out?

And hmmm are there no policies for XTREME on using drugs if you dance with them? When they go into competition do they have to have drug tests?

Why didn't you think of whether other patients with even more debilitating forms of scoliosis who suffer are prescribed medical marijuana? You'd think they would be getting it if it was available for that condition before you daughter who can still dance could. Doesn't your daughter belong to any scoliosis support groups?

Does your daughter also realize that if she has to have a drug test for an employer she may have a problem?

Also unless this has changed since this date??? The Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that one can be arrested for even medical use of marijuana that the state law does not override a federal law

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/982/

By John Q. Public on August 5, 2009 5:16 PM

Can you explain why a medical marijuana bill was making it's way through the Illinois legislature a couple of months ago if marijuana is already legal here?

-JQP

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I never said marijuana is legal here. I said "medical marijuana" or Marinol is legal. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Maybe there are a bunch of druggies trying to legalize the marijuana with 4 times the tar of cigs in the Illinois Legislature and are using a term the Federal Govt. uses for Marinol to bring confusion.

They may need to correct their terminology and just admit they are trying to legalize street pot. I am sorry but I am no expert on this bill and simply speculating.

But please don't imply that I said marijuana is legal in Illinois because I never made such a statement. I read the internet version of the Naper Sun everyday and try to stay up to speed on the latest news and changes in the law.

MHB wrote:

You are engaging in a semantics game with me. I never said marijuana is legal in Illinios. I said "medical marijuana" or Marinol is legal in Illinois.

Right back 'atcha. And you apparently didn't bother to read my post closely. The bill making it's way through the legislature is to make medical marijuana legal. Why would they need such a bill if it is already legal?

-JQP

By Anonymous ONE on August 5, 2009 9:43 PM

Maybe the NPD should interview her to find out where her friends are getting their heroin? This could go a long way to stop the heroin problem you claim is such an issue. So all these 2 1/2 years you have been blogging about problems in Naperville and come to find out it is someone in your own family that is part of the problem!! Ironic isn't it?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am not claiming heroin is such an issue in this town. I know it is an issue. It is a very serious issue. We lost a teenager in March and one in July. Both are dead and gone forever. Their familes are grieving. Do you think this is not a BIG ISSUE. And how many heroin overdoze cases do we not know about? Could the suicide victim of July 24 have commited suicide using heroin? It appears to be an easy way to commit suicide...just take a large dozage and you are certain to die.

No one in my family is part of the heroin problem. How dare you make such a false allegation? My family fights the heroin problem in town.

As I said my daughter caught an acquaintence with heroin, threw the heroin out and called the teenager's father. How many times do I have to repeat myself before anyone listens or comprehends? My daughter and his father provided names of suspect heroin suspect dealers to the police. We are doing our part.

If the police were patrolling our subdivisions they would also know the names of the heroin dealers and could probably catch them in the act.

I once put a heroin addict in jail. I don't like to give too many details because as John Q. Public says, these details one day could reveal my identity. I like being anonymous. I like my privacy. I don't enjoy being a known or public figure.

I am simply asking that the police do a greater part....take on some more responsibility. That the NPD not use 12-17 police officers in the downtown area. I am suggesting 10 of those officers be put on the heroin beat instead of the bar beat. Maybe the canine dog should be sniffing for heroin in the subdivisions where it can be found and not in the bars where people appear to be drinking. How many heroin druggies has our police dog caught so far on that infamous intersection.

To much is happening outside the dt area as there are very few police patrolling subdivions. My subdivision is simply not patroled by the NPD. If you spend 30 hours a week outside in your subdivision and never see a cop drive by in 30 years except if he is on a call, I think it is fair to conclude your subdivision is not being policed properly. To the best of my knowledge the few hundred homes in my subdivision pay Naperville Taxes and yet we see no police....except if we call them which is usually too late in many cases to solve a crime.

That is why I am alleging that the subdivisions in Naperville are subsidizing the bars, lounges, restaurants, and nightclubs downtown. They seem to all be doing very well and must get off the subsidization bottle so we can have our fair share of police protection in our own subdivisions.

I am really surprised not one person agrees with me. It is really too bad but I am sure of what I am saying and think I am absolutely right.

She caught a friend using heroin and threw the heroin out the window and called his Dad. I don't think this is the kind of girl that needs to be jailed. She is a good influence on heroin users. She tries to stop them.

Maybe the NPD should interview her to find out where her friends are getting their heroin? This could go a long way to stop the heroin problem you claim is such an issue. So all these 2 1/2 years you have been blogging about problems in Naperville and come to find out it is someone in your own family that is part of the problem!! Ironic isn't it?

By John Q. Public on August 5, 2009 5:16 PM
MHB wrote:

Can you explain why a medical marijuana bill was making it's way through the Illinois legislature a couple of months ago if marijuana is already legal here?

-JQP

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JQP,

You are engaging in a semantics game with me. I never said marijuana is legal in Illinios. I said "medical marijuana" or Marinol is legal in Illinois. I was describing very early on in this debate how it is being prescribed at Edward's Hospital. My nurse friends there told me about it but obviously gave me the wrong spelling.

Obviously, I have real friends while most of you have no friends except your fellow bloggers and the internet. I have friends all over town who feed me information. All you guys do is Google for your information.

Please remember, JQP, the Old Joe used to love this semantic game and it got him nowhere. I am so glad he changed. I wish you were not trying to replace him. The game you are playing does not contribute to or further this serious discussion about heroin deaths in Naperville.

Why don't you just admit the NPD has failed in its attemtpt to stop the heroin traffic into Naperville? That Naperville is not the Best Place to Raise Kids and the title we won was based on the fact that we have been covering up our serious problems including rampant heroin use by our teenagers.

I am sorry I could not respond to everyone but I have to go to the gym for my nightly work out where I meet real people. I will try to answer the rest of the bloggers before I crash out tonight at 2am.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 2:49 PM

No one has identified me in 3.5 years and no one will identify my 19 year old daughter.

I do smell her when she comes home and demand she breathes in my face.

____________________________________________

I'll bet we could identify her if we could see a picture of the dance team. She would be the one with the bag of cheetos in her hands!!!

The line about smelling her when she comes home is a classic - I'm going to add it to the collection.

Unless your daughter is also undertaking Chemo I am going to go out on a limb and say that medical marijuana, or the real stuff will not help her. Other than to get high which is probably what she wants to do anyway.

By Anonymous on August 5, 2009 7:45 PM
WOW...Sybil wants the police to fix everything but what does she do, pretends to be the police and illegal seizes a person then searches them too. After all her brave actions and finding the hiding stash,(RIGHHHT) she does nothing and this just may have been the big bust the cops needed to crack the big cases she talks about.

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I busted a neighborhood kid for marijuana and not heroin. This is a huge difference. I turned him into his Dad with the marijuana. It was up to his Dad if he should turn him into the police.

The teenager made the deal in my front yard and on my property. I did not illegally seize the teenager. I asked him what he was doing and he stated receiving a key. I told him I did not believe him and he gave me permission to search him. I did and found the marijuana.

If we were going to jail every marijuana user in Naperville, the taxpayers need to come up with one billion dollars for another jail.
Let us focus on the hard core dealers instead of the light core users for now. The County and City are broke and do not have enough money to build a jail to put 100,000 kids in Dupage County behind bars. Seriously! Let us be reasonable when debating.

By Ken on August 5, 2009 6:37 PM

By the way, here is the definition of medical marijuana from a state that has made it legal:

Medical Marijuana is Marijuana as defined by Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 and Senate Bill 420 The Medical Marijuana Program.

Medical Marijuana is Marijuana use for medical purposes (from p215)
Medical Marijuana is Marijuana that has been recomeneded to a pateint by a physician license in good standing to practice medicine or osteopathy issued by the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California to "Serious medical condition" means all of the following medical conditions;...... Chronic pain;......Persistent muscle spasms, including......Any other chronic or persistent medical symptom that either:

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Ken,

Apparently, the State of Calfiornia agrees that marijuana can help with chronic pain from such diseases as Scoliosis. Thanks for showing me my daughter was right.

I am simply trying to get her marijuana legally or Marinol to help her as I do not think they have the serious side and long term effects of pain killers. I could be wrong of course.

She is an amateur dancer and next year is her last year. You can not compete nationally once you turn 20. While she is very good and on the team that won the National Champioship, she is not pro quality like about 3-5 teenagers at X-treme Dance. One of the girls actually was offered a pro contract while in Myrtle Beach by professional scouters. She was Filipino I believe. I congratulated her. Very talented young lady.

My daughter has one year left to compete. She is determined to get through this last year and the pain that comes with it. She loves dancing. Try to get a college football player to quit his senior year just because of pain. He won't. She won't. I would do the same as she is doing and try to deal with the pain with whatever way I can that is LEGAL.

Chiropractic treatements really help with the pain immensely. But she has some real bad days where I feel medical marijuana or Marinal will help her.

Like I said she is not a druggie. She caught a friend using heroin and threw the heroin out the window and called his Dad. I don't think this is the kind of girl that needs to be jailed. She is a good influence on heroin users. She tries to stop them.

I think the NPD needs to track down the suppliers who are corrupting our youth with misinformation about the drug. I don't see why you are all ganging up on me.

I apolgize to Former WV Mom for thinking it was her who introduced the HIPAA, even though in no way was I insulting her as she alleges wrongfully. Maybe it was Moderator Chris as she claims. Even if there is a legal case, the Naperville Sun is not required to release the name of the heroin victim just becuase the NPD released his name. All I did was ask a question about consistency of reporting.

While I would rather not see names released, I think the town should be informed of all the heroin users who are dying. If this is not kept secret, maybe other teenagers will fear for their lives and stay away from this extremely dangerous drug.

My daughter probably first used marijuana when she was 16 or 17 without my knowledge or permission. I suspect she used it like others to be cool and because she fell for peer pressure. She later discovered it soothed her pain and developed interest in using it.

Now she is wiser and understands it is ILLEGAL and off the street is very DANGEROUS.

End of story....do you guys all really want to put her in jail to rot for making an immature mistake when she was 16. Give me a break...or give her a break.

WOW...Sybil wants the police to fix everything but what does she do, pretends to be the police and illegal seizes a person then searches them too. After all her brave actions and finding the hiding stash,(RIGHHHT) she does nothing and this just may have been the big bust the cops needed to crack the big cases she talks about.

The whole thing is absolutely crazy, she must really not have anyone to talk to and this is her only outlet. Oh, and you cry the cops never patrol your neighborhood but you always leave out what neighborhood that is??? I guess you dont want the cops around since your kid is smoking pot and probably doing other things too. Good luck, hope they turn out better than you did...

As usual Sybil, you are trying to redirect from your original statements. No one has said consulting a doctor about the legal use of a drug is illegal. You have stated that your daughter uses marijuana, which is quite illegal, and infer that you have bought her story that she used it to alleviate her pain, which is a joke. Nobody is making a big deal about legitimate drugs, just your writing off your daughter's illegal drug use as okay because she is a dancer.

By the way, here is the definition of medical marijuana from a state that has made it legal:

Medical Marijuana is Marijuana as defined by Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 and Senate Bill 420 The Medical Marijuana Program.

Medical Marijuana is Marijuana use for medical purposes (from p215)
Medical Marijuana is Marijuana that has been recomeneded to a pateint by a physician license in good standing to practice medicine or osteopathy issued by the Medical Board of California or the Osteopathic Medical Board of California to "Serious medical condition" means all of the following medical conditions; Acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS);Anorexia; Arthritis; Cachexia; Cancer; Chronic pain; Glaucoma; Migraine; Persistent muscle spasms, including, but not limited to, spasms associated with multiple sclerosis; Seizures, including, but not limited to, seizures associated with epilepsy; Severe nausea; Any other chronic or persistent medical symptom that either:
(A) Substantially limits the ability of the person to conduct one or more major life activities as defined in the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-336).
(B) If not alleviated, may cause serious harm to the patient's safety or physical or mental health.
(from SB420)

Marinol is not mentioned in the definition. While chronic pain is, the best and obvious choice for your daughter is to give up dancing if it gives her so much pain. Sometimes you have to give up something you like because of detrimental side effects, and your daughter is old enough to face that truth.

Have you ever noticed that our favorite blogger tends to divert attention away from himself whenever he is caught in a faux pas? Former WV Mom hasn't had anything to add to the conversation for a while, but because our favorite blogger has been caught being an ineffective parent, he has to deflect attention from himself. Former WV Mom has proven to be the effective parent. Our favorite blogger is stuck with a law breaker who can't even pick out friends who won't rip off her parents. And, our favorite blogger is unable to even control what's happening in hisown home.

I think the score is Former WV Mom 1 Our Favorite Blogger 0!

Was the name released back when it first happened or just now that a court case is involved? If not until now, then it is because with the court case, it becomes a matter of public record. That is different than violating HIPAA laws.

If court cases come about regarding any other alleged overdoses, those names will most likely become public record at that time too. Which means not for a few months until an investigation is complete and someone is charged or indicted.

However suicides are not likely to involve court cases and most likely will not be revealed publicly as a result unless the families decide to step forward to bring light to the issues.

You know what... you are again acting in a way that is totally uncalled for. You are insulting me for absolutely no reason. I believe you owe me an apology although I am sure I won't get one.

I never introduced the HIPAA argument. Moderator Chris was the one who began that line when he explained to you that the press can not get every little bit of info from the hospital or first responders when it comes to drugs or suicides. I merely explained how HIPAA is supposed to work. I can't guarantee that everyone follows it.

I am not the one who claims to know everything about the police, staff at Edward, etc. That is you. So why don't you be the one to find out why one was publicized and others weren't? You seem to know everyone. (Or at least pretend to know everyone.)

I never claimed to have all of the answers to everything in the world. But when it comes to parenting, I've been successful every step of the way. And not because I was lucky, but because I worked very very hard at building relationships with my kids, setting appropriate boundaries that changed and morphed as my kids got older, and using logic not emotion when dealing with them.

And the more you write, the better and better I look as a parent. So go ahead and keep blogging. It's quite entertaining to see you self destruct.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 4:25 PM

Where is Former WV Mom who introduced this HIPPA argument, to explain how the police and Sun revealed the name in one case and not the other? She usually has all the answers. I guess this time she has NO ANSWERS!

*************************

Did the police or the Sun offer medical services?

MHB wrote:

How can you all say "medical marjuana" is illegal in Illinois when it is legal and even prescribed at Edward's Hospital right here in Naperville? How can you all change the proper legal defintion of "medical marijuana?" Who gave you all that right? Are you guys all smarter than the US Govt. and suddenly want to overrule the prescriped and proper definition of "medical marijuana?"

Can you explain why a medical marijuana bill was making it's way through the Illinois legislature a couple of months ago if marijuana is already legal here?

-JQP

By T.B. on August 5, 2009 2:59 PM
This is really just too much.

Dancing may make someone sore or ache. But the heart of what we’re talking about here is recreational use of an illegal drug. Rationalize all you want, but that’s really what’s going on.

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T.B.,
I think what you are missing is she has been diagnosed by both doctors and chiropracters of having Scoliosis. Basically, this is what causes the pain to be much more severe than a sore or ache of a normal athlete.

Taking Marinol if allowed and prescribed by a doctor is not a recreational use of a drug.

Many pain killers if taken for a long time are harmful and in many cases very addicting. I believe Michael Jackson who was also a dancer eventually got addicted to pain killers and was treated in London for his addiction. Some reports stating at his peak he was downing 80 pain killers a day. Your body develops resistance to pain killers and more and more are needed. And we know they are bad for your intestines, stomach, kidney and/or liver. And maybe even your pancreas....

I do not see why so many bloggers think it is a crime to consult with a doctor about using Marinol which is a new drug and legal in Illinios. I think everyone is making a big deal out of nothing.

Does anyone know what more the NPD can do to stop the heroin traffic into Naperville which has taken the lives of many teenagers in recent years? We don't even know how many teenagers have been lost to heroin as for the most part it is kept secret.

The last 2 cases of heroin overdoze and suicide of teenagers were kept under wraps by the City of Naperville and the Naperville Police Dept.

Everyone here is talking about HIPAA. But not one person can explain why the NPD revealed the name of the heroin victim of March to the Naperville Sun which published it last Friday.

The Moderator has shed no light. And no blogger has shed any light.
Can you shed some light, TB, to this inconsistency? Can your brother who is a fire fighter shed some light as to what Fire Dept. policies are since they end up transporting the dead heroin victims to the hospital in their ambulances?

Did the NPD and the Sun screw up when they published the name of the March heroin victim in Friday's newspaper? Did either or both committ an impropriety or an immoral act? Can one single person step up to the plate and give an answer? Can a Sun Editor come here on this blog site and answer this question? I thoght they read this blog site since we are their appointed Citizen Journalists who are suppose to help them gather the news....or at least that was the case before Ted Slovick and Jim Lynch departed.

How come not one person can tackle this very important issue which is much more important than my daughter potentially seeking a legal prescription of Marinol authorized by an MD? Do you all think you are smarter than doctors? How can you all say "medical marjuana" is illegal in Illinois when it is legal and even prescribed at Edward's Hospital right here in Naperville? How can you all change the proper legal defintion of "medical marijuana?" Who gave you all that right? Are you guys all smarter than the US Govt. and suddenly want to overrule the prescriped and proper definition of "medical marijuana?"

Where is Former WV Mom who introduced this HIPPA argument, to explain how the police and Sun revealed the name in one case and not the other? She usually has all the answers. I guess this time she has NO ANSWERS!

MHB wrote:

No one has identified me in 3.5 years and no one will identify my 19 year old daughter.

I wouldn't be so certain of this, if I were you.

-JQP

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 2:49 PM

What puzzles me is bloggers here think my daughter is the only teenager in town who has tried marijuana. I am willing to bet over 50% of the teenagers in Naperville engage in marijuana or have engaged in marijuana.

*********************

But how many have their parents knowingly serving as an enabler and codependent?

This is really just too much.

None of the states that currently have medical marijuana laws on the books list scoliosis as an approved condition (procon.org). Most of the states list chronic pain as an approved condition, but it appears that the laws were really geared towards people with cancer, HIV, and glaucoma. By the way, WebMD.com defines chronic pain as pain that lasts three months or longer, not pain and soreness after a football game or dance class. Medical marijuana laws were not intended to benefit otherwise healthy athletes and dancers.

I doubt a reputable doctor would prescribe medical marijuana for pain without first trying many alternatives. The idea that someone could travel to CA or another state and get a quick prescription for medical marijuana is folly. The laws were written to prevent specifically what is being discussed here—young people traveling there just to get what would otherwise be an illegal recreational drug.

Also accoring to WebMD.com, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen and naproxen carry a risk of stomach or intestinal bleeding, not kidney and liver problems. Those are risks associated with Acetaminophen and are worse if you drink alcohol (which a teenage pot user may be prone to do). Other drugs can help reduce the stomach and intestinal issues associated with NSAIDs.

Dancing may make someone sore or ache. But the heart of what we’re talking about here is recreational use of an illegal drug. Rationalize all you want, but that’s really what’s going on.

T.B.

No one has identified me in 3.5 years and no one will identify my 19 year old daughter.

I have no plans of libeling anyone which which would allow a subpoena to track me through my IP number. And you really can not libel a fictional character on this blog site. We are all fictional characters. I have been called a liar on this blog site which would be grounds for a lawsuit if it was the real world....but this is the blog world. Great difference! If I were ever known or my identity revealed and a blogger called my real person a liar, I would clean him or her out at the laundromat.

If my daughter is identified the NPD can not arrest her for doing marijuana in the past. They need some proof and corroboration. They need evidence. Heresay on a blog site is not evidence even though 100% true. And I am rather confident due to recent discussions and especially all these recent deaths in Naperville, she will cease and desist from using illegal marijuana that could be spiked and kill her. To the best of my knowledge she has not used marijuana in at least 10 days and maybe much longer. I do smell her when she comes home and demand she breathes in my face. I am doing all I can as a parent to watch out for my kid short of imprisoning her in a cell in my basement which is illegal and of course I would never do. She is 19 years old and she does not have to listen to me if she does not want to. I am reasoning with her and I believe it is working.

What puzzles me is bloggers here think my daughter is the only teenager in town who has tried marijuana. I am willing to bet over 50% of the teenagers in Naperville engage in marijuana or have engaged in marijuana.

Yes, she has asked to visit a doctor about medical marijuana. Maybe she is mistaken that it will help her and the doctor will tell her there are better solutions.

Medical marijana according to the US Government, doctors and nurses at Edward's Hospital is Marinol.

The Moderator and all the bloggers who think medical marijuana is what you smoke are mistaken. I am sorry but everyone on this blog site is wrong and using the wrong definition for medical marijuana.

I have been accused of attempted to break the law because I am willing to take my daughter to a doctor to see if medical marijuana will help her. I am personally against all drugs and avoid prescription drugs like the plague as I believe they also eventually kill especially when taken in combination. That is why I have been taking my daughter to a chiropractor and not to a doctor for her Scoliosis. Chiropractors do not believe in prescribing drugs.

Chris says: I don't think anyone could ID his daughter from his posts. I think that he's right, but for a different reason. If someone wanted, they could probably spend a bit of time and energy and figure out who Sybil is from the bits and pieces. The reason I don't think that any one could identify Sybil from her posts is that I think - once again - that there is probably very little that is even remotely true about THIS line of blogging, as has been proven over and over in the past.
This one is just Sybil inhabiting a "fictional character" * as has often happened in the past. No daughter of that age, no daughter that dances for whatever-it-was, no kid on the swim team... the Sybil that I know and love so well would never even remotely make herself publicly identifiable in this manner. Never in a million years.
So, once again, Sybil chose a hobby horse, in this instance drugs... and made things up to support her point. No more than that.

* which is a characterization that I still object to, and will always.

BHO--Once again, throwing your daughter under the bus for the sake of a post, or a hundred posts. Your daughter is participating in illegal behavior, no doubt. Now you provide even more information about who she is. How would she feel about this loss of privacy? She is no longer a juvenile with somewhat private juvenile records, if this were to be the case, and whatever legal recourse she may encounter becomes life-long as an adult with a record.

This is so bizarre, and so detailed that it makes me think that Sybil is once again living vicariously through his/her fantasies and not a bit of it is true. Who, with all of their faculties intact, would discuss a child here as he/she has? Borders on reportable behavior, if it were true.

As far as I have experienced, DARE didn't need any help introducing illegal substances to any child.

Chris--you didn't accept my last post regarding this behavior on BHO's part, and I can understand that, I could not believe BHO's current story line, IMO it's worse than any previously developed by him as a it involves a young person (a "child") that should not have their privacy invaded in this way and I was reacting to the insanity. However, you continue to allow BHO to submit posts regarding who we thought was a minor until today, that someone could possibly identify, and that's ok?

Sybil seems to be one of those parents who can't control his/her/its child, and blames other for his/her/its failure. I find it amusing that the federal government, with all it's drug czars, drug agencies, and anti-drug programs cannot stem the flow of drugs in the US, but Sybil thinks the NPD can.

Sybil, it is drug users like your daughter who bring the dealers to town. Blaming her drug use on peer pressure is a joke, as is saying you have almost talked her into quitting. Maybe if you had made her work for things instead of giving her a car and an allowance, she might have made better choices with the money she had to earn. I know I worked hard for my money when I was her age, and was much too cheap to spend it on all the drugs that where as readily available in pre-dare days as they are now.

While there has been evidence that DARE is not effective in the long term, there has also been no evidence that DARE causes more teenagers to do drugs. It's basically just been even overall with no significant difference between the DARE group and the control group.

It is not DARE that screwed your daughter up.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on August 5, 2009 1:07 AM

Why should I turn her in? I don't think that is a good solution if I can convince her to quit which I feel I almost have.

*************************

Right. That's why she wants to go to Michigan to buy it. Step up to the plate. Be a parent. Turn her in. Get her professional help. You are not doing her any favors. Stop passing the buck to outsideres. They didn't decide to bring this life into the world. You did. And when you did you signed up to make the tough decisions.

I love the fact that CIJ knows how to redirect NPD staffing to stop the flow of heroin in Naperville, but has admitted she/he has not quite put a halt to weed in her/his own residence. How perfectly pompous. You seem to have all the answers for Naperville problems but just like at home, things are not always black and white in a city of 140,000. Maybe you should quit pretending like you know it all.

OMG...Sex education now arousing sleeping hormones. Good lord!

Ignorance is a huge issue on teenage sex. There are also other factors which influence sexual restraint. I can provide the info if you like. Providing knowledge does not influence hormones. That is like saying discussing say height will make you grow taller.

By Anonymous on August 4, 2009 9:48 PM
What ever happened to tough love? Turn her in and let her see the system from within.

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Why should I turn her in? I don't think that is a good solution if I can convince her to quit which I feel I almost have.

She fell for peer pressure and she is graudally getting out of it. She is 19 and will be sophomore this year. She got 3 A's and 2 B's. She is a loving kid and a great dancer. I took her car away and her allowance. I don't feel she belongs in jail. She has used but never dealt.

While she has done marijuana mistakenly thinking it is cool, I know she has preached greatly against hard drugs like cocaine and heroin knowing how dangerous they are. I know she found one of her friends doing heroin once and threw the heroin out the window and called the Dad who came to the home immediately to deal with his teenager. This was told to me by the parents of the teenager and not her.

These poor teenagers are living in a rough world. They are being exposed to peer pressure we could have never imagined. The DARE programs really screwed them up badly. We have to try to undo the damage the DARE programs have done to our kids. DARE introduced our youth to drugs and aroused their curiosity. Sex education in school is also terrible and arouses sleeping hormones. The schools should focus on regular education instead of sex education. What happened to reading and arithmetic?

In the meantime, the NPD has to find a way to stop the flow of heroin into Naperville. They need to come out of denial and confront the problem head on. While some say, I don't know what the police are doing and I agree, the bottom line is we have all these deaths and suicides. They are not doing enough and have to take it to another level.

Ten police officers have to be removed from the dt Naperville beat and put on the heroin beat wherever that beat may be and as soon as possible.

MHB wrote:

I really do not think you read my posts before you respond to them. Take a deep breath and please read them twice.

And I really don't think you think about what you're saying as you write. This is from your original post on the subject:

One of our kids, the one that is a National Champion Dancer, does marijuana occasionally. The more pressure we put on her, the more she goes the other way. We tell her it is illegal and people can spike it with a harmful substances.

Now she wants legal marijuana from California or Michigan and wants to take a trip to get some. She claims it helps with her aches and pains from dancing and relaxes her.

I am against all drugs, including marijuana, but if my daughter insists on it, I would rather she get it legally with a doctor's prescription. I was reading somewhere there are more legal medicinal marijuana shops in Los Angeles than Starbucks coffee shops. So maybe my daughter knows something I don't know.

So you apparently can't get your daughter to stop smoking, no matter how much pressure you put on her. She's even openly discussed going to California or Michigan to get pot from a legal clinic, something you, as her, father could very easily prevent, assuming she is still a minor. But, apparently, rather than put a stop to this, you want to help her follow through on these plans, even though pot obtained legally in another state is still illegal in Illinois, and transporting it across state lines would be a violation of federal law.

Now maybe all you really meant is that you wanted to know if there was some way to obtain it legally in Illinois, but that is far from clear, at least in your original post. Moreover, you've never indicated whether you've consulted a physician about her pain (chiropractors are not physicians), nor do you mention having your daughter stop the activities that she says cause her the pain that is her excuse for indulging in an illegal activity.

Also:

Medical marijuana already exists in Illinois and it's called Marinol. If a doctor thinks it will help my daughter with her Scoliosis and gives her a legitimate prescription, I will not object.

Marinol is not really marijuana, nor is it what people commonly mean when they talk about the medicinal use marijuana. You can call it "medical marijuana" if you want to confuse the issue, but that would be like calling morphine or codeine "medical opium." It also doesn't appear that Marinol is recommended for scoliosis, or pain associated with hard physical activity, at least, not according to the manufacturer's website. But, by all means, take your daughter to see a doctor and see what he/she recommendns. If he doesn't want to prescribe Marinol, chances are he'll prescribe something else for her pain. If not, I really do think you should call her bluff and make her quit dancing so she'll no longer have an excuse to break the law.

Why all this talk about illegalities? Where do you come up with your baseless comments? Sorry to be so blunt but you are not reading, listening or even hearing before you write.

Baseless? Last time I checked, marijuana was still illegal in Illinois---at least, the way your daughter has been "administering" it to herself. As for my comprehension of your posts, maybe you need to slow down and think before you post. The ability to type faster than you can think is not always a good thing.

-JQP

If you read the product information on the website for Marinol, it is a synthetic (created in a lab with chemicals) product based on one of the compounds in marijuana, THC. It is not just marijuana with the tar removed. Synthetic drugs are ones created using chemicals to create the compound that has the medicinal qualities found in an item in nature. Other examples: aspirin is a synthetic compound based off a compound found in the bark of the willow tree that was used as a pain killer in ancient times, and morphine is a synthetic compound based off of the painkilling compounds in opium.

It is not marijuana, merely a synthetic version of one of the compound found in marijuana, the one that helps with nausea and stimulates appetite.

The reason the USDoJ/DEA website refers to it on their website as medical marijuana is because they are promoting it as a legal synthetic prescription drug that can meet the needs of some people claiming the medicinal need for marijuana.

What ever happened to tough love? Turn her in and let her see the system from within.

This is from I believe the govt. site you provided. I guess you have an issue with the US Govt. and not me as to whether you can call it medical marijuana or not.

My understanding is that this is actually REAL marijuana without the tar which is 4 times what is found in a cigarette. I have guests at home but I will do more research for you later.
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"Medical" Marijuana - The Facts

Medical marijuana already exists. It's called Marinol.

A pharmaceutical product, Marinol, is widely available through prescription. It comes in the form of a pill and is also being studied by researchers for suitability via other delivery methods, such as an inhaler or patch. The active ingredient of Marinol is synthetic THC, which has been found to relieve the nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy for cancer patients and to assist with loss of appetite with AIDS patients.

By John Q. Public on August 4, 2009 3:49 PM
MHB,

You are in denial, here. What your daughter is doing is illegal, no matter how you try to justify it. If you willingly allow her to do it in your house, and/or aid and abet her in acquiring marijuana, then you will also be in violation of the law. The Napergate Man's sting operation was not illegal. Big difference.

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I do not allow my daughter to do marijuana. I have caught her doing it and confiscated the marijuana. She is basically without wheels for daring to break the law. I also cut her $10 dollar daily allowance out 2 months ago. I am not in denial about anything other than in a figment of your imagination. I believe she finally came to her senses.

I really do not think you read my posts before you respond to them. Take a deep breath and please read them twice.

Medical marijuana already exists in Illinois and it's called Marinol. If a doctor thinks it will help my daughter with her Scoliosis and gives her a legitimate prescription, I will not object. Why all this talk about illegalities? Where do you come up with your baseless comments? Sorry to be so blunt but you are not reading, listening or even hearing before you write.

First I highly suggest you look up the effects of Marijuana & share them with your daughter. There is a reason it is illegal. Here is one you may take a look it. Just click on the picture & it enlarges.

http://www.nt.gov.au/health/healthdev/health_promotion/bushbook/volume2/chap1/body_cannabis.gif

Next, it is not true with rebellion the only thing to do is let them do what they want. Apparently you haven't watched even a single episode of Supernanny? You need to speak to a counselor who deals with teens & they will be more than happn to help you with this. There are free counselors to go to.

You can always do more! You never do enough though. I'm sure they are doing all they can. You will never have any drug or crime to zero in a town the size of Naperville. Again where is your data. You have no clue even if there has been an increase or decrease in use in the area etc.

So then you are watching out your window quite often? Oh my that may explain a lot of things. I beg to differ the police where out standing at many bars which warranted the need. And again, I said it is not like downtown Naperville with a lovely area with people strolling with their families.

Your comment on her scoliosis ??? You can do yourself more harm than good also. The football players do also when they play with pain. They also shoot up with cortisone & other steroids to do so trying to milk every play for another stat another endorsement etc knowing their career may be over soon. Haven't you been listening to any of Mike Ditka's fight with the National Football League on how they are not taking care of their disabled players who have retired? You are not saying you check with her doctor if it is ok for her to dance when she is in pain from it. Pain is your body's way of saying stop you are doing damage!

Oh so then what happens if fights break out in each area? If I'm the one getting beaten up I'd rather have them there already and you know I don't see 17 officers when I'm strolling through there at night. And a canine is needed to catch the drugs so...

You need to find data on what you are trying to prove with rebellion. Your own family or all the families you know put together can not be generalized to all families. There are genetic components for personality but again many times it certainly can be parents. No parent treats all children the same. First you have to look at gender then age span difference. For example there is a 6 yr span between myself & my youngest sibling. The decade we were born in, the age my parents were, what they were doing in their lives then. You think you raise them the same but you really don't. In fact, ask the kids & they will say you never let me or how come he gets to etc. Also they should not be the same as each personality needs different methods. Kids are not made from cookie cutters and exactly the same, thus you do need to treat them differently.

DARE did not fail because it introduced them to drugs. Trust me...ask the kids they hear about sex & drugs from their friends long before parents & officers discuss it with them.

Actually whether peer pressure works or not depends on how secure of a relationship they have with parents. You know you are going to have plenty say, sure we had peer pressure too but we didn't so what is the difference. Heck, I remember going to a slumber party in the 70s which would have been prior to 14 yrs old (ugh) and the mom brought a joint down for us! Did I? NO! And that is what the research looks at, what makes the difference. Also don't go to extremes. It is not awesome or horrible parent idea. You used the word exactly "preached!" I don't know any kid or teen, or quite frankly adult who wants to be preached to. Trying just talking to them. Let them ask questions. Parents never do everything right. They make many mistakes and you just learn from them.

You should not take asprin when you are bleeding! Asprin is a blood thinner which will make the flow of blood continue. This is why you take a asprin for heart attacks etc. If you hit your head you have no idea if you have a concussion and have some bruising of the brain. Not good!

Where did I ever say to do as a book for every child & you would have a perfect child. Do NOT put words in my mouth. At the same time to disregard what research has found on how to raise children totally is very wrong also. It is amazing what my students do not realize about children. They have no clue how the brain develops and how this makes a difference in how they think. We are the adults and have to protect them. Research shows at graduation time only 25% of High School seniors can fully hypothetically think. Some adults never do. So it is our job to help them when they can't think of all the 'what ifs' and future consequences. There are plenty of teens who do not use any drugs...what is the difference? Ask those parents!

Fed Up with His Own Noise,

The 17 police officers and canine dog were seen once this summer on that infamous intersection and hopefully that was the all time record.

More typical is around 12 after the midnight hour.

6 of them are I believe school cops on bikes.

The other 6 are in cars, SUVs, on motorcycles or that 4 wheel ATV(All Terrain Vehicle) that appears to be recently acquired by the NPD.

Even if we go with 12, that is 10 too many on one intersection when heroin is flowing in our subdivisions freely and killing our teenagers.

We are now having heroin overdoze deaths, suicide while on drugs, shootings during drug deals in which a Napervillian was killed last year, a heroin addict who ran over a lady on a bike in dt Naperville and most probably numerous other cases covered up by the NPD in order to portray a false image that Naperville is safe and "the best place to raise kids in the USA."

I am glad that the DARE program is being dropped, it seems everywhere, as it has been an utter failure that increased the drug problem in town instead of decreased it.

Anyway, we are trying to move this debate to the Open Topic Thread and you are welcome to join us there.

If the Moderator allows me, I will publish this post on both threads so we can gradually move over to the OPEN TOPIC THREAD.

I am still hoping the Moderator will give us a thread to discuss DRUG PROBLEMS in Naperville as losing so many teens to heroin is sickening and should be dealt with by all residents. Losing 2 teens in one day just broke my heart....and it was kept secret until I revealed it thanks to my sources at Edward's who have proven very reliable. They did not give me names so I don't believe they violated HIPAA. I confirmed both deaths through sources outside of Edward's and know the name of one...the heroin victim. If the Moderator wants that name, I will provide it to him confidentially as long as he publicly promises not to release the name.

Thank you!

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And to the Anonymous whom just posted. I counted the 17 police officers and one dog twice with my own eyes. I was in disbelief and that is why I counted them TWICE.

If you say they are barely 17 police officers working all of Naperville at night, you made my point for me. The rest of Naperville is being left unprotected. Why? This is an ATROCITY as far as I am concerned. President Obama may say this is utter stupidity but I am not going that far.

All you guys do when you accuse me of lying is lose your credibility. Maybe I should start using my cell phone camera and sending the pics to the Sun anonymously. Not that hard to do with technology.

Let me know if you have any interest, Moderator Chris, of seeing pictures of 17 police officers and a canine dog on one intersection in downtown Naperville.

Any robber with half a brain will soon figure out the best time to rob a gas station in Naperville is 1:45 am in the morning on Friday and Saturday evenings. They will have a great head start and almost no chance of being caught as long as the gas station is not near dt Naperville.

The "Person" going on and on about medical marijuana for his daughters aches and pains due to stressful dancing (?) should do a little more research. He should also ask his "friends" (another convenient anonymous source for this person) at Edward Hospital exactly which patients they are prescribing Marinol for.

Once again I have to wonder why Edward medical staff (If True) are discussing these issues with MHB who has claimed to be on the inside track of the Edward Hospital "Grapevine". Below is the link and info from Solvay Pharmaceuticals (the manufacturer) as well as a comment from Web MD describing the possibility of addiction to Marinol.

Based on what the MHB has posted already it sounds like his daughter runs the show and is bound and determined to get her pot one way or another. He should just be aware of some facts before allowing her to continue her "rebellious stage". Also given the past willingness to stretch the truth I wonder if any part of the story is even true.

Marinol is a synthetic manufactured by Solvay Pharmaceuticals.

http://www.solvaypharmaceuticals-us.com/products/marinolproductinformation/0,998,12413-2-0,00.htm
MARINOL® is a unique prescription medicine that relieves multiple symptoms. The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved MARINOL® to treat nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy in patients who have failed to respond adequately to conventional treatments.

The FDA also approved MARINOL® to treat appetite loss associated with weight loss in people with AIDS. Health care professionals may prescribe MARINOL® to help stimulate an HIV/AIDS patient’s appetite so he or she will want to eat again.

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-9308-Marinol+Oral.aspx?drugid=9308&drugname=Marinol+Oral
Although it is very unlikely to occur, this medication can also result in abnormal drug-seeking behavior (addiction/habit-forming). Do not increase your dose, take it more frequently or use it for a longer period of time than prescribed. Properly stop the medication when so directed. This will lessen the chances of becoming addicted.

Inform your doctor if your symptoms worsen or do not improve.

By Best Place to Raise Children??? on August 4, 2009 3:05 PM
One Who Values You,

1. I spend a lot of time in my subdivision. I talk to my neighbors. No one sees any police cars unless we call for a problem. It is obvious to everyone they do not patrol our subdivision with any consistency or even inconsistency. They do patrol the main arterial roads outside and near our subdivision. Yes, it is possible they pass by once or twice a year when I am not looking outside the window but highly improbable.

2. Since we apparently have many heroin, drug and suicide deaths, I feel strongly the police could do more. If they were doing a lot more, maybe we could have saved the 2 teenagers of July 24 and the teenager of March 7.

3. Yes, police cars made rounds which included passing through the parking lots of the Oak Brook bars. But they were not stationed there for the full duration of the evening as they are in dt Naperville. Big difference, Professor.

4. Just because my daughter has Scoliosis which she inherited from her grandfather, I am glad she is not holding herself back from accomplishing her dancing dreams. Many football players have terrible pain after games too. Should they have not become professionals and washed dishes in a cafetaria because of the pain. I am sure a 115 pound dancer does not handle pain as well as a massively built and muscular football player. All I am saying is if a doctor feels legal medical marijuana can help her more the Ibuprofen, I will not object. That does not mean I am for peddling illegal drugs on the street.

5. The kid bought marijuana on my front yard. I saw it from the window. Since it was on my property I felt outraged and decided to confront him. I asked him if I could frisk him and he said yes. He had a secret pocket that he was hoping I would not notice. I found it and took the marijuana and gave it to his Dad who disposed of it in my presence while the kid stated you just threw away 20 dollars which is all the money I had.

6. Bars should have adequate security to handle any fight that breaks out. If a bar employs 5-10 big bouncers, they can handle all fights. In the rare case they can not, they can call the police for help. I am on record as stating I have no objection to 2 police officers on the corner of Chicago and Washington or better still roaming the 5 block dt area. I object to 17 and a canine dog on one corner. So if the bouncers need the help of one stun gun, the police can provide 2 by dialing 911 within minutes and maybe even seconds. Do we really need to have 17 stun guns ready to go? If the situation is that bad in dt Naperville, let us just shut down the nightclub district. It is really not that bad. The excessive police presence is unnessary and makes the atmosphere miserable.

7. I think all teens rebel in various degrees. I think teens want to prove they are ready for independence way before they truly are ready. Many families will have an extreme rebel while his siblings are normal rebels. Is it the parent's fault that 3 kids turned out alright when the 4th was extreme even though they taught them all the same values and morals.

8. I think all the evidence indicates DARE has failed. I always thought it was terrible to educate kids about drugs as it also introduces them to drugs...something we don't want. I am glad the police and schools figured out what I have known for over 30 years from common sense.

9. Just like Former WV Mom you appear to think there is some formula for raising kids. That if kids do not come out perfect, it is our fault for raising them wrong. Sorry, I don't agree. You can do everything right and some idiotic friends of your teenager can pressure him or her into doing bad things by telling it is hip or cool. It happens all the time. Peer pressure at times overcomes parental pressure.

10. Yes, I have preached to my kids all their lives that drugs are harmful...that drugs will get you in trouble. Maybe I pressured them a little too much. So are you saying they rebelled because I pressured them to stay away from drugs?? You may be right but I hope you are wrong.

11. I did not take aspirin for the bleeding. I took aspirin for the headache that occured later from the slam dunk my head took from the riptide in the ocean. The bleeding was stopped with mild pressure.

12. I know you are a professor. But if everything worked as smooth as those books say, we would live in a perfect world. Every human being is created different. To think a book can tell you how to raise kids and they will turn out to be perfect is rather naive. Sorry professor, but that is how I feel.

MHB,

You are in denial, here. What your daughter is doing is illegal, no matter how you try to justify it. If you willingly allow her to do it in your house, and/or aid and abet her in acquiring marijuana, then you will also be in violation of the law. The Napergate Man's sting operation was not illegal. Big difference.

-JQP

P.s. Maybe you misspelled it, but a Google search on merimol does not turn up anything having to do with marijuana. Also, while there are efforts afoot to pass a medical marijuana bill in Illinois, it hasn't happened yet.

"Medical" Marijuana - The Facts

Medical marijuana already exists. It's called Marinol.

A pharmaceutical product, Marinol, is widely available through prescription. It comes in the form of a pill and is also being studied by researchers for suitability via other delivery methods, such as an inhaler or patch. The active ingredient of Marinol is synthetic THC, which has been found to relieve the nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy for cancer patients and to assist with loss of appetite with AIDS patients.

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I guess the nurses at Edward's Hopital both gave me the wrong spelling. Thanks for your assist, Moderator. I wish I had spell check.

Anyway this is what I am talking about. It is available at Edward's and being prescribed to certain patients.

Again, this is what I am trying to get for my daughter if a doctor feels that it will help her and gives her a legal prescription.

Moderator Chris,

Why don't you call the Edward's Hospital and ask them if they prescribe Merimol. After and if they tell you yes, ask them what Merimol is.

My sources who work at Edward Hospital were told by the doctors and pharmacists that Merimol is medical marijuana.

What is your denial based on? Who did you contact there?

I can not imagine that my sources would lie to me but everything is POSSIBLE.

John Q. Public,

I checked with my sources at Edward's Hospital and they do prescribe marijuana to certain patients. The marijuana at the pharmacy in the hospital is under the prescription name "Merimol." It is legal and it works according to my sources to help with pain. According to my sources Ibuprofen does not work with all patients and some of the stronger pain killers can be addicting. Thus "Merimol" appears to be a new option that is not addicting.

I do not think Edward's Hospital would ever do anything illegal. I once met CEO Pamela Davis in her office and she seemed as straight as an arrow. Not the kind of person that would engage in anything illegal or cover up something.

I also heard from sources on the South Side of Naperville that the suicide victim of July 24 had attended Nequaa Valley High School. Apparently an e-mail is circulating to parents of kids in that school....I think by the school but I am not 100% sure as my cell phone connection was very bad. I think if we had more bloggers on this site, news could be confirmed more easily.

I guess if all else fails, doctors in Illinois are allowed to prescribe marijuana under the prescription name "Merimol." Like I said I am against anything illegal....especially drugs. But if marijuana can be obtained legally through a doctor's prescription as my sources tell me, and it is the only thing that works, then why would I be against it.

If you have to take large dozes of Ibuprofen over long periods of time my understanding is your liver and kidney will be severely impacted. So why not take "Merimol" and be safe.

If you have a rebellious kid, you have to let her have something. If you are too strict as I tend to be, there are sometimes serious consequences. My kid is showing good signs that the rebellion is almost over and maturity is finaly setting in. This is really a very good feeling for any parent as you feel your kids is out of harm's way. Maybe this "legal marijuana" she is demanding is the olive branch that will bring a full understanding between us. In some ways it is a compromise. She gets her marijuana without breaking the law. We are both happy. I don't see why you have a problem, Mr. John Q. Public.

If the police arrest me for buying marijuana legally, I will sue them just as the Napergate Man sued them. And I will win just as the Napergate Man won. Knowing the NPD, I would not be surprised if they did arrest me. After all, they arrested the Napergate Man for running a perfectly legal sting operation and cost the taxpayers 10 million dollars. Let us hope they are wiser and not dumber after they made that 10 million dollar mistake.

This is in response to MHB's August 3 6:43 PM post on the What sort of behavior drives you nuts topic.

MHB,

Your daughter is giving you a B.S. excuse for her marijuana use, and you seem to be buying into if to the point of looking for ways for her to obtain it legally in other states, even though it remains illegal in Illinois. That is not exactly zero tolerance, no matter what you say. There are reportedly specific conditions, such as glaucoma and some kinds of cancer, for which cannabis seems to be an effective drug. I'm pretty certain, though, that the kind of pain your daughter is experiencing is not usually treated with a marijuana prescription, at least not by a responsible doctor, and ought to be treatable with standard pain relievers, whether prescription or over-the-counter. Of course, I am not an orthopedist or any other kind of physician, but I doubt your daughter is either, and maybe she should go consult an actual M.D. rather than embarking on a program of self-medication with illegal substances. If marijuana truly is the only thing that brings relief from her pain, then the prudent course of action for both you and your daughter is for her to cease the activity that causes that pain.

BTW, again, marijuana still is illegal in Illinois, even for medicinal purposes, so if Edwards is prescribing it to some patients, they are doing so in violation of the law. Moreover, I'm pretty sure you and/or your daughter will be in violation of Federal law if you transport marijuana from a state that has a medicinal marijuana law to any other state. I also doubt that if your daughter is caught in possession of marijuana that the NPD is going to let her off the hook because she has an invalid (in Illinois) prescription from an out-of-state doctor. For that matter, if the NPD has reason to suspect you have marijuana in your house, you could be held liable for it. I don't think I need to remind you that the "my daughter did it" excuse did not work for the Napergate Man.

-JQP

By Allie on August 3, 2009 8:02 PM
Stumbled on this Blog..how sad that one has to run to a computer while away at a dance competition to blog about the winners. didn't you have any friends or family to call..sad that you just have your computer friends.......I'm home sick, otherwise i wouldn't be wasting my time ..

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Really!

Between our rooms at the Sheraton Hotel and the Dance Auditorium in the same hotel is a lobby full of computers.

If I am proud of the accomplishments of 50 dancers from Naperville who just won a National Championship and want to get them some recognition in the local newspaper, I suddenly only have computer friends. Your comment is very funny if not borderline insane. I was not blogging to tell computer friends. I was blogging to tip the Naperville Sun to a story I thought deserved some coverage. The former Moderator and Host asked us to be Citizen Journalists and I was doing exactly that.

I think I blogged two times while on a one week vaction. That took about 10 minutes. I don't have any regrets. The only regret I have is that the Naperville Sun chose not to look into the story or publish anything about it.

These kids have no interest in personal recognition. The owners of the studio and instructors have no interest in personal recognition. Their only interest was in competing and winning. However, I personally felt they deserved some team recognition and tried to give them some. I thought I was being very unselfish to take 10 minutes out of my vacation time to tip the Sun about this story that involves Napervillians. I thought the residents would be proud to know that a local Dance Studio won a National Championship after 5 days of competition and 700 dance performances. Yes, they won the top prize in all categories. They earned the World Victory Trophy which I believe is now in their Naperville Studio.

Basically, you feel blogging is wasting your time and you would not be doing so if you were not homesick. That is OK by me.

I feel blogging is very educational and enlightening. It helps you grow, learn from others and mature further. In some cases you can bring change through blogging. You can invite people to a tax protest and some actually show up.

Others would rather watch 3 hour baseball games each day. What long term value does that really have? Can anyone remember any regular season game of the Cubs or White Sox that took place on August 3, 1999? Can anyone even tell me who they played and what the score was? Of course not. That is my point. Watching baseball is a waste of time except for some instant emotional gratification you may get when the game is over if your team wins. I would rather blog.

As far as relatives and friends, we called some who could not make the trip and gave them the good news. Many relatives and friends were also there to watch the competition and cheer on the team.

And all the parents had a huge party for the kids at the Breaker Hotel right on the beach after they won their National Championship. When you are involved in such activities you become very close friends with other parents since you have similar interests.

I have a very good life. I am surprised so many bloggers are worried about my personal life because I enjoy blogging. I think people need to get a life of their own and stop worrying about other peoples' lives.

One reason I blogged twice while on vacation is because some bloggers thought I was fabricating the fact that I had a daughter who was a dancer and competing for a national championship. I promised these suspecting bloggers that I would send a post from South Carolina and I did exactly that hoping it would have a unique address that the moderator could trace to Myrtle Beach.

End of story. Let us not maker is bigger than it is.

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PS. It is very sad that you are home sick and you have no visitors checking on you. All you can do is blog. How so sad that no one cares to visit you while you are sick. Where are your friends? Where is your family in your hour of sickness and need? I am so very sorry for you.

Stumbled on this Blog..how sad that one has to run to a computer while away at a dance competition to blog about the winners. didn't you have any friends or family to call..sad that you just have your computer friends.......I'm home sick, otherwise i wouldn't be wasting my time ..

John Q. Public,

Thank you very much!

BTW, MHB, congratulations on your daughter's dance team winning the national title. You must be very proud of her---and rightly so.

-JQP

MHB/CIJ wrote:

I gave 10 examples of people cussing from 1 thread when I was challenged by John Q. Public.

Yes, you did. Unfortunately for you, though, my challenge to you was to list Napergatians, not just any blogger who happened to have a beef with the police.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on July 28, 2009 6:28 PM

It is really nice to hear about the great things our teenagers do instead of the occassional aberration of misbehavior here and there.

*********************
By Anonymous on July 20, 2009 6:09 PM
Mine and most kids in Naperville appeared to have come out of wombs.
No matter what most parents do and how well they raise their kids, in my opinion they experience REBELLION. It is a normal part of life. It is how kids eventually earn their freedom into adulthood. It is a ritual all teenagers and parents have to go through. We just have to keep tabs on this ritual so it does not have to get out of control as apparently occured with one of my children.

----------------------------------

Hmmmmmmm?

Moderator Chris,

Just wanted to report to you that Extreme Dance of Naperville won the National Championship in Myrtle Beach once again for the 3rd consecutive year less than an hour ago.

Their Hip Hop song BXS(Brittany Xtreme Spears) beat out 700 other dance rountines including hip hop, jazz, ballet and whatever else for the top performance. It was 5 days of intense competition with the 12 finalists performing their dance routines the last day.

They not only won the Judges decisions, but they also got the most votes on the World Wide Web from the live broadcast out of the 700 dance routines. The competition was watched in many countries world wide especially in Europe where so many votes came from.

About 45 mostly Naperville teenagers performed in this BXS dance hip hop routine. They practiced for months 5-10 hours a day including weekends. I know that besides practicing they even had to jog 3 miles each day to have the stamina to perform such a lovely, intense and well coordinated dance that was about 10 mintues long.

Hundreds of Napervillians were there to cheer them on and exploded in pandemonium upon the annoucement they won the World Victory Trophy.

As a Citizen Journalist, I thought it was a newsworthy event to report to the local newspaper with a very small staff due to a budgetary crisis. If you feel it is a worthy news story to pass on to the news staff at the Sun, please feel free to notify them. Soon the Gold Trophy will be on display at Extreme Dance Studios in Naperville on Ogden Ave and I am sure the Naperville Sun could take a picture of it if it so chooses.

Anyway, I am very proud of the competitive spirit of the teenagers in this town. They really amaze me. It is really nice to hear about the great things our teenagers do instead of the occassional aberration of misbehavior here and there. As a parent, I am very proud of not only my daughter but all the boys and girls who gave it their all to win this very competitive National Championship.

Congratulations to all of them for a superb effort. It makes one proud to be a Napervillian.

I don't care much about the dance contest either but it is of import to some in town - no reason why it should not be mentioned here on an open topic thread.

HOWEVER - I do not see why Anonymous on July 28, 2009 2:28 PM - who I believe to be the person who identifies them selves as CIJ or BHO or Diane or any number of other identities - should call Anonymous on July 28, 2009 8:19 AM "a failure in life and with extremely low self esteem who is jealous of those who are more successful than you". That was simply uncalled for.

By Anonymous on July 28, 2009 8:19 AM
Im sorry, but I dont care about the dance contest ect, if he/she/it wants to....... PS, if I was on vacation I sure as heck would not be on the Naperville Sun blogging, no offense.

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If a Dance Team from Naperville is competing for a National Championship, it is as worthy of news coverage as a football team from Naperville competing for the State Title....if not more.

Dancers practice, believe it or not, harder than football players. They practice 5-10 hours a day for months to nail a routine to perfection. Sometimes up to 50 dancers have to perform the exact same moves in perfect syn for 5-10 minutes straight.

Just like football players, a few dancers make it to the pros and become future stars.

It seems like you are a self-centered person who can not see beyond your eyelashes.

You call others liars, while you are the liar with proof to prove it. If you want to call others liars, show some courage by at least using a handle that can identify you instead of being a wimp in hiding.

All you have to do is go to the Web Site Broadcast and watch the competition live. Many Napervillians, I am sure are proud of their sons and daughters who compete at a national level. Hundreds of Napervillians jumped on planes to support their sons, daughters, relatives and friends.

It seems to me you are a failure in life and with extremely low self esteem who is jealous of those who are more successful than you. Psychiatrists were created to deal with your sick type....to help you heal.

And since this is an Open Topic Thread, I can not think of anything wrong with promoting a Naperville Dance Team competing for a National Championship in Myrtle Beach, S. C.

Im sorry, but I dont care about the dance contest ect, if he/she/it wants to create their own website or own newspaper then great, but why do we need 1am updates from the biggest liar who is obsessed with this blog. Maybe everyone should start updating their status like on facebook or twitter. PS, if I was on vacation I sure as heck would not be on the Naperville Sun blogging, no offense...

Anyway I am blogging from the Sheraton Hotel in Myrtle Beach where X-Treme Dance of Naperville is competing for a National Title in both Jazz and Hip Hop.

This battle for the championship started on Friday. Tuesday at 10am are the finals. They will be nationally broadcast live on Starpowertalent.com on the Web.

There are over 50 dancers from Naperville here and hundreds of family members to root them on. The auditorium is beautiful and massive with great visibility from all seats.

While I am no expert in the field of dancing and of course biased, I am willing to bet X-Treme Dance from Naperville grabs their 3rd National Title.

At least for those who may be interested in watching, it will be broadcast live. At least that is what my sources tell me which I believe are reliable.

The judges have reviewed over 700 dance routines so far to arrive at the few who qualify for the finals. I believe the dance routine that X-treme Dance thinks will win the championship for them is BXS which stands for Brittany Xtreme Spears.

I hope some of you get a chance to watch it. The talent of all the teams from across the country is really phenomenal. I have yet to see a single screw up or flaw in the 100 dance routines I personally watched. Only the teams that made it through regional finals made it here to Myrtle Beach.

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PS. I am sending this post from Myrtle Beach since so many bloggers doubted I had a daughter that danced or that she would be competing with her team for a 3rd consecutive National Championship. And to refute claims that I am anti-social because I blog one hour a day. I missed the first half of my daughter's teams competition because I had to attend the Naperville City Championship for swimming for another child in which I was a volunteer. Yes, I do volunteer for events other than Tax Protests.

Blogging an hour a day instead of watching a boring 3 hours baseball game does not make you an outcast or anti-social. I even found some time to fight the waves in the Atlantic Ocean. They were ferocious today. They tossed me around like a Rag Doll and I finally came out with a mildly bleeding forehead after a combination of waves threw me on the bottom of the ocean where I think my forehead hit a rock, stone or big seashell. Anyway, it is so much fun to be anti-social and anti-active.

I hope everyone is having as good a time as I am in Myrtle Beach while being social and active.

Again the Web Site where it will be telecast live from is StarPowerTalent.com

I was watching the movie "Caddyshack" on my portable DVD in my "wigwam" the other night, and made an observation...Ted Knight played the judge in the movie and was a real tool...odd thing is, he looked and acted just like Dick Furstenau....odd

There is a way around multiple yahoo/etc accounts. Require that legitimate email accounts from ISP's will be the only type accepted; IE- Comcast, AT&T, Etc.

I belong to a couple of forums that are set up this way and it virtually eliminates mults and spammers. If someone were still, insistent on using multiple names, the ISP's usually limit how many email accounts per customer, and if all else fails, Chris could still check the ISP # of a suspected mult and eliminate all but one user name.

I would fully support the log in concept - though my guess is that anyone who is willing to spend the time to create dozens (or more) personae are probably more than likely to create any number of email addresses to support them. As it is quite easy (and free) to create any number of yahoo or g-mail or AOL addresses, it would be interesting to see how this goes. The hard part is to re-invent the oh so distinctive writing styles that some have.

Please, lets do it.... I would like to move on.

Thank you GJC for noticing that the Sun-Times web/blog site has this option.

I have a question for the moderator and the group in general.
The same software this site uses is also used by the Sun Times blog itself. The major difference is, on the Sun Times version, it requires the person posting to create a login - that is, register with a valid email address and choose a nickname to be able to post. The Sun Times site seems to draw a lot of comments, so it doesn't appear to be a bar to use.
Given how much time and energy we all seem to spend dealing with the concepts of multiple personalities, and who is who, why can't we turn on the same facility here, on this site. I've never registered here, simply because I don't have to, though I am happily registered on other blog sites, and some of the issues that we see here simply never come up.
Please note that I'm not specifically talking about our most high profile multiple personality, but that is what started me thinking along these lines, I'll admit.
So, what say all of you? Is this something that we should encourage the moderator to do? I, for one, would very much like to see this happen. It wouldn't change my posting habits at all, and would allow for a at least a bit more accountability, while also allowing for some level of anonymity...
GJC

Speaking of Diana she was one of the best fictional characters I created. She was a very tough woman and did let the establishment have it.

Pretty telling, as almost every statement posted by 'Diana's' was a lie or factually incorrect. Not surprising at all that Sybil thinks this was his/her/its best work...

To:By what the? on July 25, 2009 1:14 PM

No prob --- I enjoy your style.

By Anonymous on July 25, 2009 9:15 PM
The problem with creating multiple fictional characters is that it creates significant doubt about the validity of anything that creator says

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Funny, almost everyone on this blog site is a fictional character including yourself.

Almost everyone on this blog site has used more than one handle and reincarnated themselves here and there.

Fictional characters do not create any doubt. What creates doubt is unreliable content. I have done my utmost to make sure my content is credible and reliable.

I also think it is very sad when a person has to discuss something that is a year old and has been rehashed over and over again.

Time to move forward. If you have a problem with my message, challenge it as Former WV Mom did. My handles are fictional and will always be fictional. I will continue to change my handles from time to time as I get bored with them rather easily. Sorry, but that is how I am.

Since my handle has nothing to do with my ego, I have no problem discarding it. Sometimes I change my handle to get peace for a few days so the focus can be on my message. It does work temporarily, but unfortunately because I have blogged for so long more than one person can figure out my writing style after a few posts.

If bloggers don't want me to change my handle, focus on my MESSAGE and I won't. The more you attack my handles the more I will change them. Your choice!

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PS. Enjoy your time blogging while I am in Mrytle Beach. I will be leaving tomorrow morning to watch the Hip Hop and Jazz National Championships that my daughter is participating in and try to be as anti-social as humanly possible. I won't be here to hijack any threads. I won't be here debating anyone. Have a lot of fun by AGREEING with each other day and night.

I will find a way to send one or two posts so that the Moderator can track I am in Myrtle Beach. It is unfortunate to think bloggers think I make everything up because I use fictional monikers as everyone else does...albeit a few more in the olden days.

If X-Treme Dance of Naperville wins the National Championship for the 3rd straight year, I promise to report back as a dutiful Citizen Journalist should. We should know by the end of the week.

I will also make sure no dancers beep their horns when they pass by your home, Moderator Chris.

The problem with creating multiple fictional characters is that it creates significant doubt about the validity of anything that creator says

If only you knew sybil, if only you knew...................

By Anonymous on July 25, 2009 12:54 PM
Citizen Investigative Journalist, you can always bring Diana back to fill in for you while on vacation. She seemed to enjoy spending her vacations doing research and beating up establishment types.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of Diana she was one of the best fictional characters I created. She was a very tough woman and did let the establishment have it.

I am in the process of creating a new character that will give Diana a run for her money.

At least we know who my characters and I are. We know what we stand for. We all have the same principles.

Who are you, Anonymous? The Forensic Accountant known as Experienced who is ashamed to come out of the closet after failing in performing a simple math computation.....or the guys who makes so much NOISE that he is almost deaf right now.....or the guy who loves his Keyboard.

You seem like a wimp in hiding. What are you trying to hide?

Have you ever tried to blog about a topic in your life?

Are you capable?

To Anonymous on July 25, 2009 11:59 AM--

Fabulous post, Anon. Seriously, I welcome the information. It will take me awhile to go through all of this, but I will look into it. If i have questions as I go, I trust you'll be around on these blogs.

Thanks for taking the time!

Citizen Investigative Journalist, you can always bring Diana back to fill in for you while on vacation. She seemed to enjoy spending her vacations doing research and beating up establishment types.

It is City Championship Day.

I think the 7-10 year olders are the ones honking their parent's horns. They have to compete in the early morning.

The 10-14 year olders start at 12:30 pm at Nequa Valley and they don't honk their horns quite as much. I specifically don't when I drive my children.

You should be glad you do not live near Nequa Valley High School where the City Championships are being held this year.

I have to do some volunteer work at the meet for 4 hours but I will be excused to watch my kids race when their turns come up. This swim meet is the most anti-social event in the history of mankind. So I guess your bloggers may be right when they say I am anti-social. I will be off after that for more anti-social activities in Myrtle Beach. ( I will try to send you one post from there as promised as I am sure you will know from my IP number that I am not in my home and/or place of work.)

But seriously, there is no excuse to ever honk a horn except to avoid an accident.

I will try to INVESTIGATE who passed by your home at 6:50am and woke you up. Consider that my assigned duty. Blast them on the front page of your newspaper and hopefully they will never do it again....lol...

TO: what the? on July 24, 2009 1:31 PM

I have looked well beyond the blanket statements. You mention you are not an expert on the ins & outs of tax structure. Though not a pure “taxman”, I do have +25 years of working experience in the finance field, including the design & implementation of taxation strategies. I also perform research on these subjects, have testified in Senate subcommittees on them, had the opps to discuss personally the Laffer curve with Milton Friedman, presented variation strategies to both the SEC and the FASB, etc. I say this not to impress but to reinforce the thought that I am not coming at this subject from an anti-left view, but as one who has a decent grasp on the data.

I would heavily encourage you to look beyond the liberal hype, which is mostly what drives the comments we all read and hear on the Bush tax cuts and the Reagan tax cuts (Hey! Did you ever notice those same folks do NOT include the Kennedy tax cuts --- know why? He was not a Republican.)

I will try to address some of your issues in what I hope is a logical manner:

First, let’s be clear on individual taxes ---- we have a very progressive system in the United States right now. Contrary to popular hype, it has been made severely more progressive under Bush and his tax cuts that allegedly benefited only the rich.

As far as Buffet goes, I have researched Buffet’s dogma over well more than 8 years, and if you do the same you will come out a lot less impressed by him that you now may be. Given that most of his success came prior to SOX, and that he has harped for years about his poor secretary in Omaha, and his hypocritical stance on estate taxes [let us remember ---- he is giving basically all of his money to the Gates Foundation. So, all of our money is good enough to be taxed an umpteenth by the government, but his isn’t?], I would prefer to leave him out of our discussion.

To wit: Directly from the IRS Statistics of Income, the top 1% of earners paid 40% of all taxes. This is the highest rate of taxes paid by that group in over 40 years!

The top 1% earned about 22% of all reported income, but paid 40% of all taxes. The analysis of this is clear and requires no bending or spin: The top 1% pay taxes at a rate double that of their income and achieved this pinnacle under the Bush tax cuts.

The impulse, which has been beaten upon and created by true liberal hype, is that the highest income earners pay a smaller percentage of their income than lesser successful earners (note my specific use of words here). I will outright say that this is a scandalous lie used by those who benefit from a fragmented society that fights among itself (i.e. our politicians).

When addressing the issue of federal income taxes, the rich pay more, period. Take a simple look at any federal tax table ----- clear as a bell. Some try to refer to tax dodges, but those who understand the Bush cuts (and the Reagan ones earlier) are well aware that these series of cuts eliminated many, if not most, of the legal tax dodges that once existed and catered usually to the very rich.

So that leaves us with a question: Why do they say these things and how can they get away with it?

Again, a simple answer: Those who push this devisive dogma of rich vs middle class (note here that you cannot use the word “poor” as the poor pay no taxes in the U.S. ---- currently about 50% of all earners pay ZERO federal income taxes) bundle ALL taxes paid by an earner to come up to their conclusion, which is then based on a percentage! I will add once more that it is impossible to spend a percentage!

So, in affect they take the federal income taxes paid, the state taxes paid, the FICA and medicare taxes paid, the city taxes paid, the county taxes paid (in many analyses, I have even seen sales taxes paid!) and use this resulting percentage of taxes paid to argue for more FEDERAL income taxes on certain individuals deemed to be “rich”.

This is clearly an example of your earlier comments on fudging stats and rolling them to favor an argument. Using this dishonest calculation to defend an even more distorted federal tax code rewards deviant behavior at the state, county, and city levels of government and disguises the issue of our quickly deteriorating Social Security and Medicare systems.

As far as trickle down goes, it is well-established that the Laffer curve works well in practice but has issues for some in theory. The fact that over 2/3s of all new jobs over the last 39 years has come from small businesses, the fact that the rich, using any real data, pay more taxes in total and as a percentage of total taxes, the fact that federal revenues grow whenever there is a tax cut that includes the top brackets (and conversely go down whenever there is a tax increase to the top brackets), all serve to support this.

Finally, I will say that there are many more millionaires now than there were 30 years ago (even taking inflation into account). [Note that “millionaire” designates wealth, by the way, and not yearly earnings]. The reasons are varied, yet the liberal hype tries to convince us it is all from the evils of Bush tax policies.

Let me add a few alternatives:
>The U.S. economy has the most fluidity in the world. though I am liberally rounding numbers here, about 30% of the earners in each level (poor, middle class, rich) change levels every 3 ½ years. Our mobility is further proof of the idea that the U.S. offers Opportunities for all to succeed.
>People made a lot of money on real estate and home values over the past 15 years (note they have also lost a lot, and I suspect the next data dump will show this)
>The tech boom of the 90s put enormous amounts of cash in people’s pockets.
>The lessening of taxes on the poor and middle classes (yes, I believe I have well-established that above) has provided more opps for those earners to do more with their money

Oh no, Glock!

It appears your Obama Derangement Syndrome is finally becoming delusional. An immediate intervention is needed to bring you back to reality!

First of all, I wasn't mocking your typing skills. I was mocking you.

Secondly, Barack Obama IS your president. As long as you're a U.S. citizen and he's the U.S. President, that makes him your president, like it or not. You can renounce your U.S. citizenship; that would get you off the hook. But that could also take all the fun out of your armed insurrection.

Thirdly, O has signed 11 pieces of legislation in the past 6 months in addition to your beloved ARRA, so let's see if any of those can be considered a good move for our One Nation under Glock:

Lily Ledbetter fair pay act, you know, the equal pay for equal work regardless of gender thing. But you're a guy, so that doesn't benefit YOU. Children's health insurance, nah, you don't care about other people's kids. Small business act, you don't own one. Helping families save their homes, we know from past blogs how into THAT you are. Volunteerism, no way, cuts into time on the firing range. Family smoking prevention, don't care about other people's families. Credit card disclosure, if they're stupid enough not to understand the fine print, that's their problem. Hey, here's one! The Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act! Awesome! Sounds right up your alley. Oh, wait, that isn't what I thought it was . . .

Well, bummer. Twelve acts of legislation and the only good it's doing is for women, children, families, small businesses and people interested in volunteering to make their country a better place. You're right, these things don't have anything to do with you. But fortunately, you're not the nation.

If you feel yourself slipping over the edge again, click here for a quick booster of reality orientation:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/

Otherwise, take two aspirin and blog me in the morning.

Drinking non-alcoholic beer has grown much faster than alcholoic beer in the last 20 years. If a person drinks beer he or she could drink either kind and be drinking a cold beer.

Liquor and grocery stores now carry many varieties of non-alcholic beers. All the major brewers have their own non-alcoholic beer brands that they promote heavily as beers.

A big deal is really being made about nothing.

If you are drinking a diet pop with no calories or caffeine, you are still considered to be drinking a pop.

Same difference.

But...
In June CIJ/Sybil/whoever... wrote:

"And I managed to have a cold beer at the Tilted Kilt where a beer never looked so good."

Oh - Wait. You were just inhabiting a fictional character, this time, one who actually drinks beer, right?
Right.
Digging the credibility hole ever deeper, Sybil. Ever deeper.
Now you'll tell us it was a nonalcoholic beer. But it's ok, because... I was being a fictional character.
Oh, please.

"There's no drunk like a reformed drunk." John William Clancy (1912-1996)

By Anonymous on July 14, 2009 12:43 AM
BTW, we don't drink or allow our kids to drink. We don't smoke either and thankfully none of our kids smoke. So we have tried our best but have not always succeeded as you alleged to have in keeping losers away from our home and our kids.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on July 24, 2009 7:43 AM
Former WV Mom and I have had a very good debate on this thread.
I enjoy a drink with other parents and have been to the Tilted Kilt, Quigleys, Bar Louie, Charlie Cabanas and Jilly's in the last 30 days.

CIJ admits to also being Anonymous. Interesting contradiction in the posts.

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No contradiction! I drink non-alcoholic beer, lots of coffee(about 10 cups a day) and sometimes diet coke at these places. Some of the adults drink and some don't. But none get drunk.

Before, I switched to non-alcohlic beer I averaged a beer a month....but never in the home. I think drinking in the presence of your kids while asking them not to drink is a fruitless exercise.

You have to practice what you preach.

Tilted Kilt, my favorite place, has some really awesome food for under 10 dollars. Blackfinn Saloon has has an awesome menu and atmosphere and I can't wait to check it out.

Not drinking beats getting a DUI and being able to drive. I need to drive....a lot. I never drank to get buzzed so I really don't miss drinking. Last night I had 2 White Teas and loved them.

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PS. I drive my kids and other kids to many activities. I would never drink and drive and endanger these kids. Never!

What the ? You can mock my typing skills while I mock your president. The fact for you is the Rasmussen poll today indicates the inexperienced one looking presidential but of course now has a favorability rating of 49% vs. a disapproval rating of 51%. You wouldn't suppose the fact that he has done NOTHING good for this nation since January except sink us into the largest deficit in history has anything to do with it do you? How ironic it is that the blue dog democrats are going to moderate this guy.

Yes, Thomas, I got your point, the one you described in your first paragraph. My point was that the w/d purchase was not totally dependent on the capital gains tax being 15%; if the tax had been 20-27%, you wouldn't be schlumping your dirty duds down to the local laundromat. You still would have bought the w/d, you just would have paid $200-400 more for it. I'm not saying $200-400 is nothing, I'm just making the point that the better off one is financially, the less these percentages actually have an impact on consumer behavior. That's what I meant by "I think they (the very well-off) can handle a small increase just fine". It's not going to have that much of an impact on their bottom line.

Your case about those who make more paying more is what I was saying to Anon above. I see the same type of media manipulation you described all the time. In fact, I've seen a similar example for the last two days. Both Fox and CNN have had "experts" (I think it was Carl Rove on Hannity) saying that Obama's health plan wasn't what Americans wanted because "polls" had indicated that up to 82% of Americans reported they were happy with their current health care and didn't see the need for a gov. option. What they don't say was that the poll obviously only counted people who had health insurance to begin with. The "poll" didn't include those who didn't have health insurance, because you can't be content with something you don't have. And the government option is specifically for those people who don't have any, who can't get or can't afford health insurance through the private market. So I switch the channel whenever I hear a talking head say this. It's misleading BS; not news but manipulative commentary, just like the Bush tax cuts example you mentioned above.

I know your 5 "changes" weren't there to O bash; I didn't see it as such. But it is interesting your health insurance premiums are going up yet another 25%; has O done anything in his 6 month reign to contribute directly to this? If anything, he's identified your insurance premium increases as a problem he wants to combat. And yet you seem unfazed by it. That increase just ate up that mutual fund capital gains you were enjoying, doesn't that irk you at all?

what the? on July 24, 2009 11:05 AM
Congrats on the new purchase. But you know, even if the capital gains tax had been 20%-27%, you still would have taken that money out if you had needed it, and you still would have bought that washer and dryer if you had needed it too.

_________________________

Precisely correct, however I would have netted LESS money if I pay a higher tax. (Don't mean to use caps - kinda snarky), but my point is that I personally will have more $$$ if I pay 15% instead of 20%? No? On my mutual fund transaction described originally I will pay (next yrs taxes) ~$600 in capital gains (15% rate). I would have had to pay $800, or $1080 if the rate was 20 - 27% so while it's not enough to pay off my mortgage it is MY money and I'm glad to have the extra $200-400 thank you very much. (again with the caps)

I read your link, and rather than get in the battle of "links" there are others who write about the real increase government receives when tax rates are actually lowered. I'm not an economist, but there is pretty solid evidence that lowering capital gains taxes has increased revenue for the Government.

The reason those in the $1MM have benefited the most is because they pay the most. When the capital gains went from 20% to 15% on long term investments the rate reduction was the same for everyone. Someone who makes a lot more than me will have a greater dollar amount in savings, but the percentage is the same.

I see articles and comments indicating that some "rich person" will save 10K in taxes due to W's tax cuts. (these # are all for discussion and not real). The person making this case then will say something along the lines that the "poor sap in the middle class" will only save $1000 in taxes due to W's tax cuts. The comparison is then drawn that the richest 1% benefits with a 10K reduction while the middle class guy only benefits 1K.

The Headline then reads: "That rascally W gave his buddies a 10K tax break while I only got 1K" - or some derivation of this.

What doesn't seem to get reported is that the rich person originally paid 100K in taxes and now is going to pay "only" 90K (10K savings), while us middle class guys who pay 10K in taxes and will now only pay $9000 (1K savings). The story is then reported (can anyone say bias?) that the "Rich People get a 10K tax cut, but the middle class only got 1K".

I used my 5 "changes" to my job function simply as an example of the kinds of changes i have had recently, not in an effort to bash the big O, or blame him for my health care premium. Although if Bush was previously blamed for $4 gallon gas prices I suppose given the fact that O is the president I may as well blame him?? After all what's fair is fair?

By Anonymous on July 14, 2009 12:43 AM
BTW, we don't drink or allow our kids to drink. We don't smoke either and thankfully none of our kids smoke. So we have tried our best but have not always succeeded as you alleged to have in keeping losers away from our home and our kids.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on July 24, 2009 7:43 AM
Former WV Mom and I have had a very good debate on this thread.
I enjoy a drink with other parents and have been to the Tilted Kilt, Quigleys, Bar Louie, Charlie Cabanas and Jilly's in the last 30 days.

CIJ admits to also being Anonymous. Interesting contradiction in the posts.

To Anonymous on July 24, 2009 9:33 AM:

You really have to look beyond blanket earning statements. Yes, the top 10% of earners will have paid more in taxes because they have more overall income to tax. But as a percentage of their individual income, many in the highest income range pay a smaller tax percentage on their income than their poorer counterparts. Like I suggested, take a few minutes and Google Warren Buffet on this. He's made some very public statements about the inequity of the tax structure as it's existed for the last 8 years. One in particular I remember was that he stated his secretary, who made around $30G/yr, paid a higher rate percentage-wise on her salary than he did on his billions.

I admit I'm far from an expert on the ins and outs of tax structures. But I do understand that Bush's and Reagan's "trickle down" economic theories were a way to change a progressive tax structure, which the U.S. and most countries have, into a more regressive one for those at the utmost top of the food chain, the theory being that if they were left with more money in their pockets they would spend it in such a way as to benefit the U.S. economy. Overall, this hasn't really panned out. The upper income class as seen their wealth grow in the last 8 years while the middle class, the supposed beneficiaries of all this "trickling", has stagnated. I think trickle down is not worth the price society pays for it. As we saw from the economic crisis last fall, only s*** rolls downhill (sorry, Chris, but it's better than using a $).

But I'm up for learning more. Post a link to where you're getting your info and I'll check it out.

Thomas:

Loved your post! Very good point about our attitudes towards change. It is true, just about all change in the workplace is negative. If it is not negative, then it is generally followed by a quantifier such as "We've made some changes, but don't worry, they're good ones!", so folks don't freak out in advance. I would say this is less true outside of the workplace, but it sure is inside.

I made special note of #5:

5. A change in our health care plan - I now have to pay 25% more in premiums.

This was an interesting thing for you to throw in, since these last posts have been about the new health care option. Kinda makes at least one of my points, doesn't it?

Of course big business will pass those costs on to us--that's what businesses do, whether it's taxes, fuel costs, increases in minimum wage, they'll pass as much of that cost on to consumers as they can. Is that a good enough reason not to do anything? Your health care premiums just went up another 25% and we haven't done anything yet.

Congrats on the new purchase. But you know, even if the capital gains tax had been 20%-27%, you still would have taken that money out if you had needed it, and you still would have bought that washer and dryer if you had needed it too. I'm glad you caught a break, but the capital gains and dividend tax cuts have benefited those in $1MM+ range the most, the jump is huge. Take a look:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1008

To: By what the? on July 23, 2009 10:00 PM

Alas, you are tragically uninformed on taxes, my friend.

I don't have a lot of time right now (and I believe you don't have any casts on your typing fingers), but the following should suffice:

>Top 10% of earners paid 67.8% of all taxes in 2001
>Top 10% of earners paid 72.4% of all taxes in 2005.
----As you can see, they paid more as a percent and, I assure you, more in total dollars as a result of the alleged Bush cuts for "..only the rich"

>Lowest 60% of earners paid 3.3% of all taxes in 2001
>Lowest 60% of earners paid less than 1% of all taxes in 2005
----As you can see, the lowest earners paid less as a percent AND, again I assure you, less in total dollars under the Bush cuts.

The above info is directly from the non-partisan CBO.

Former WV Mom:

I think that you've discovered what many of us have also discovered over time. To quote war games, an old movie you may have seen:
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

Fed Up with His Own Noise,

I love your propaganda of hatred.

1. I hate the police:

False. I disliked how one police officer handled the Napergate Man because he had a suspended license due to a toll that was not his fault. Suddenly, you call that "hatred of police." Barack Obama did not like how the Cambridge Police Dept. handled his friend who was locked out of his house and called the actions of the dept. utter stupidity. BTW, I agree with our President. Does that means he also has low self esteem and is a cop hater? In both cases each man spent 4 hours in jail to satisfy the ego of police officers and not to further any good cause, justice or provide some kind of deterrence effect to future generations.

While the Professor may have said a word or two during his moment of frustration, that is no reason to charge and arrest him. In the case of the Napergate Man, there is no evidence he even cussed on the police officer. He simply asked if he could take his dog home and turn himself in. Instead they dumped his friend and dog in downtown Naperville forcing them to walk 5 miles in the middle of the night as no tax cab would take a dog. President Obama may have also said the Naperville Police Dept. acted stupidly if he was apprised of the Napergate Fiasco, but I never used such a strong word against the NPD.

If I disagree with the actions of a police officer that rises to the level of HATRED, Mr. Noisemaker. Where is Former WV Mom to tell you that you may be exaggerating. Shame on your shameful propaganda and lies. My only claim was the police officer did not use appropriate discretion in arresting the Napergate Man considering his long and sensitive history in this town. Many bloggers who were not me came on and condemned the action of the police officer and some even cussed on him. I can not take responsibilty for what others say. I gave 10 examples of people cussing from 1 thread when I was challenged by John Q. Public.

Yes, I once used fictional characters and many times people would use my own fictional characters and attack the police and then knowingly attack me for making remarks I did not make. Do you folks think blogs are a courtroom where people are sworn to the truth under oath before they are cross examined? Wishful thinking.....

It is about gamemanship to destroy the credibility of a good messenger with a great message that you can not refute. All who have tried to play games with me have been sliced, diced and shredded. They run away after I expose them. Experienced claimed he was a Forensic Accountant and could not even perform a simple calculation. After I exposed him, he ran away. No one has heard from him in weeks. I guess he was too embarrassed to come back to this blog site after claiming it was me who miscalcualted when it was him.

2. You who apparently see corruption in every facet of city government, greed and graft and theft at ever turn by every public servant.

Very nice fabrications, Noisemaker. Calling City Officials drunken sailors who waste taxpayer money does not rise to the level of corruption. Saying our city officials are guilty of improprieties does not rise to the level of corruption.

Name one public servant that I accused of theft. I never made such a dangerous allegation but you are libeling me by stating such a falsehood against me that you fabricated in a tired attempt to defame my reputation.

I am against City Employees receiving a 75% pension after 30 years on the job. We have paid 21.16% in matching funds only to end up in a 61.4 million pension deficit hole. I am concerned about the city having to file a Chapter 9 reorganization due to the hole it has dug itself in. If you call this greed, be my guest. I never used such a word. Again, nothing but a fabrication on your part from your blaring horns.

3. Your constant pandering to the editor.

I rarely address the editor. I only address him when he comes on and says these childish attacks are escalating and most be stopped. I just like to remind him who starts them. Once again, I am not talking to you and you stick yourself in the middle with attacks. You have agreed to boycott me which I enjoyed so much and now you are attacking again. You apparently are upset that people love to debate me. You seem like a sicko who is simply jealous and now upset that your proposed boycott against me proved to be a massive failure....your own hypocrite self could not even honor it for a short week before you broke down and made a fool of yourself in front of all those you preached in front of.

4.Your constant berating of any one who disagrees with you on any subject.

Former WV Mom and I have had a very good debate on this thread. A very respectful debate. I don't agree with her. I am debating her because I don't agree with her and not because I agree with her. She is a very good debator but she does not see my point or agree with it. I don't see her point or agree with her. We pretty much agreed to disagree before you stuck your Noisy Nose in the middle. No one is berating her. She is not berating me. But in my opinion she is innocent and naive and you were able to influence her just a little. I always thought her judgment of personality traits was off just a little bit. She has minor temper tantruns where she annouces she will not debate me anymore, when your likes spew their propaganda and she falls for it, but a day later she is back debating. Unlike yourself, she is a very pleasant woman whom I respect very much even though I think she is overly trusting and naive.

5. Your advocacy of the beating of children.

I never advocated beating children and I never beat a child or an adult. I think parents who want to spank with their hands or belts should be allowed to do so when all else fails. I stated I was belted by my father. I never stated I belted my kids. I would have liked to have the option though while raising them.

Most parents that use belts on their kids use it more to scare the child in a pretentious way. They just want the child to respect his time-out. If the child wants to avoid the belt, he needs to return to his time-out. I did spank my children when they violated their 10 minute time-outs. What other options did I really have? I was not about to let them think they are the Boss of the House. I do not posses all the magical powers of Former WV Mom.

My kids are just fine. I have a daughter competing for National Championship in Jazz and Hip Hop this coming week in Myrtle Beach. I have a another child who qualifed for city time in all his strokes and will be competing for the Naperville City Championship this weekend in swimming. They both get very good grades in school. Without the spankings, I don't think they would have excelled as many times they wanted to skip their practices when they were young.

We all know Michael Jackson would not have excelled without his belt lashings...neither would Tiger Woods. Kids will not practice hard if they are not pushed. They need to be pushed and the belt should be a very last resort...but it should be allowed as a final option when all else fails. I have never had to use it and I hope I never have to.

City of Naperville firing the Former Fire Chief for mildly punching his 18 year old misbehaved son in the chest, does not send a good message to either parents or kids. Maybe the fire chief was trying to keep his son away from heroin. I saw a neighbor beat his adult son in public because his son wanted heroin. Heroin is no laughing matter. I would also probably beat my son up if he tried to buy heroin. After I knocked some sense in him and he came to his senses, I am sure he would realize I saved him from a 10 year jail sentence. Bloggers have to ask themselves would they rather see their kids spend long years in jail or beat them up till they came to their senses? Ask your kid what they would rather have if it ever got down to it.

You call this advocating of beating children. Sorry but I think you have loose screws and bearings upstairs. Maybe if your Dad took the belt out, you would not be acting like a spoiled Kindergarten Child on this blog site.

My opinions are known. People on this blog site clearly know what I stand for and believe in. You stand for nothing, Noisemaker but Noise. You are simply infamously known for your personal attacks. The Moderator asked you and your likes to stop behaving like Kindergarten Children. And you continue to come back and disobey the Moderator and act like a KGC. Don't you ever get tired of your acrobatics?

6. All make many ask what is wrong with you and what horrible things happened to you in your life to make you so angry and bitter and anti social.

I enjoy writing and blogging on political and tax issues. I enjoy being a Civilian Investigative Journalist for the Naperville Sun blog site. The former Host and the former Moderator made this calling to us and I thought it was an excellent calling. They explained the Naperville Sun had limited resources and needed our help.

I like to expose and fight high taxes which result from government waste. "This makes me angry, bitter and anti-social...lol." I pay over 60k in real estate taxes and I am trying to reduce my taxes by exposing how they are wasted. This to you is an indication that something horrible happened to me in my life. Nothing horrible happened to me in my life. I a