What do you think of District 204's first week?

The District had all summer to get its bus routes correct and test the routes. Students all had to be registered by August 1 so there is no excuse for not knowing where people lived or how many people would be on a bus.

It took two days and e-mails and calls to NVHS principal, the superindendent and the person responsible for busing to get our son's stop right and the only answer we got was 'maybe the bus was overcrowded and drove by'. Maybe? And what was the school's plan for dealing with that? As usual, D204 had no plan and no answers for parents.

Just wait for the first 'late start' day -- who knows how many kids will be left behind when Worst Student drivers decide to run their regular schedules instead of the idiotic 'late start' schedule.

I hope the teachers enjoy their coffee break.

I have four children in District 204 schools, three of which take busses to middle and high school. Luckily, we have experienced no problems at all with our busses to or from school.

The only real concern I have with this school year is the new Professional Development Day which will occur weekly on Wednesdays, and school will start 20 minutes later than the usual start time. The reason for this is so that teachers and administrators can meet weekly to have an opportunity to "benefit our students through providing school-wide professional development opportunities for our teachers.", according to the district's website.

While, in theory, this is a good idea and will probably be beneficial to the students if the time allotted is used for the specified purpose, it is disruptive, confusing, and takes away from instructional time. Review of a regular school day reflects 7 hours of instructional time without even taking into consideration the time teacher's have for breaks and lunch. Instead of disrupting students' schedules, district bus schedules, daycare bus schedule, and the schedules of working parents, I feel it would have been much more time and cost effective if these meetings took place before or after the start of school without effecting instructional time.

I have a child in an elementary school on the southwest end of town and this school already has weekly teacher meetings during the schoolday. At Patterson Elementary teachers met weekly during important classes like accelerated math, and a weekly sub (who did know the curriculum well or teach in the same style as the homeroom teacher) caused a lot of confusion and stress to the students. This did not lend to a cohesive environment for learning. Now they are taking away even more instructional time?

There has to be a better way. In my thirteen years in District 204 I have seen more and more taken away while less is given to the education of the students. This is wrong.

Yes, there is a bigger transportation cost issue here. Note that even though we are told the MVHS site is less expensive per acre (see Daily Herald Editor waxing on and quoting D204 verbatim without researching the facts), there were always the hidden costs - like the $6.4 million already spent on land and not recovered at Brach-Brodie, the risks associated with the MVHS site (will not go into details, but a friend told me it involves pipelines, trains, automobiles, and dare I say a softer word "polution" -- all still playing out), and finally, the costs of busing kids farther distances for longer bus route times was always there, but carefully managed by D204 spinners.

Inefficient scheduling, multiple trips by buses to pick up students, etc. costs time, fuel, and patience. There are risks here as well regarding safety - the longer time on buses, the higher probability of a safety problem. Of course D204 minimized this risk by not picking up many students in the first place. You can laugh now.

I am told the bus transport concerns were clearly presented numerous times to the administration, the school board, and Kathy Birkett (the new superintendent, who was responsible for the bus transport analysis behind the new high school justification).

My guess, is that D204 is trying to stay within a budget that was impossible to stay within. The poorly thought out solution was to use the same number of buses to do a much larger job. This requires lower bus route times. That requires less stops and larger loads of students. Remember too, that the district took over all logistics from First Student - a busing company that has professionals just for that purpose. Hey, but we saved money right? Voila - our bus plan!

The results were expected and reflect the total incompetence of Kathy Birkett's analysis as assistant superintendent in charge of transportation operations, and her poor decision-making as superintendent on this one issue. She had numerous chances to get it right, and failed three times. I hope this is the only failure, and that she apologizes to the worried parents and frustrated students.

Word of advice -- She should not use the D204 playbook and act like nothing happened, all is well, and we should all be thankful we live in D204. That would be the reaction of an entrenched life long D204 administrator, who has no superintendent experience. Take full responsibility and no "Yes, but..." excuses this time.

Let's hope D204 bites the bullet, admits they need more buses, that they must blow the transport budget, have endangered your children by taking more safety risks, that the bus logistics management should have never been taken on by the district, and Karla Zozulia (who blew the plan so badly that even parents in her own neighborhood exploded in anger over the plan to make young children walk on busy roads with poor lighting and no sidewalks). She strikes again! The district had to revert to last years' plan because they risked political and legal fallout.

How unprofessional we look to the rest of the outside world. D204, just fix the bus problems -- problems partly caused by burning over $140 million on bricks and mortar, built where the majority of students don't live. The ludicrous decision, that continues to be poorly managed with a bunker mentality.

It would have been smarter to spend that money on logistics planners, a top superintendent with a track record as a super, and on individual student development for the new world paradigm of global economic realities just now setting into the USA. Instead we build nice new buildings, with fancy athletic fields while our competitor nations build intelligent brains, and technologically superior students.

About the blog...
By Conscientious Observer on August 25, 2009 7:17 AM
...The only real concern I have with this school year is the new Professional Development Day which will occur weekly on Wednesdays, and school will start 20 minutes later than the usual start time.

What the #@&! are they planning this again, even after the parents slam dunked this as a terrible idea because (and would you please listen this time Judy?):

1) both parents work more than ever to pay the obscene property taxes,

2) teachers need to just get there earlier or stay later - it's their job...they are on salary, not hourly (teachers should not take the best of hourly and salary without the sacrafices),

3) administrators including our super works for us parents - we employ you and have already said this was a bad idea,

4) parents and students will forget, will show up for buses that are not there, will show up for school early, etc. ...because everyone is busy trying to keep their jobs (just look at how difficult it is to take out the garbage on the correct day).

Save yourselves a lot of grief D204, don't do that professional day on top of these problems already inflicted on your employers - the taxpayers.

...and dear parents, wait til bus drivers start asking for IDs and managing seat assignments - another crazy and unmanageable idea by hapless bureaucrats getting paid like corporate executives. That will also be a mess!

Finally, it is not "Worst" Student bus drivers. They are just doing what they are told by the logistics leaders who are D204 administrators, who decided to take over the logistics from First Student bus company to save money, and to hide the fact that transportation costs have to go way up to manage more students on buses for longer periods.

From the incident last year where the little girl was kicked off the bus we learned that the bus drivers have a list of approved riders for each bus. So what excuse can there be for assigning too many kids to a bus? Does First Student not have any employees who both know the number of passenger seats on a bus and can count the number of names on a list?

By John Q. Public on August 25, 2009 11:47 AM
From the incident last year where the little girl was kicked off the bus we learned that the bus drivers have a list of approved riders for each bus. So what excuse can there be for assigning too many kids to a bus? Does First Student not have any employees who both know the number of passenger seats on a bus and can count the number of names on a list?
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Again, it's not First Student drivers in charge --- this year it's all D204 leadership you are seeing/feeling. They took over the operations and the responsibility. And I fear they took on the liability too - hopefully not, because the legal costs may be significant. That is a good question for our leaders. Ask your experienced school board and superintendent who knows all the ins and outs of the district - the person we thought was a no-brainer choice for leading D204.

From the D204 email today:

"If your elementary child needs to be dropped off at the usual time, staff will be available to ensure proper supervision. Afternoon dismissal time remains the same."

Wow. Sure didn't take long for the whining to begin, did it?

Hiccups in the bus system will be worked out; it isn't like there haven't been problems before. And I was interested to read that the parents in Aero Estates weren't happy until the busses dropped off their kids right at their front door. Where else in the country do people get service like this?

I loved the parent in the Sun article who was complaining that some freshmen had to share lockers because Waubonsie was so crowded. My daughters have shared lockers every year over here in D203, and they seem to have survived it just fine.

And while I think a mandated late start each week is absurd, I was floored by the people on this blog who said that teachers should just get to school early or stay later to take part in their professional development day because "they work for us, the parents." Too, too funny. Teachers already come in early to provide extra help for students. They work after classes end, preparing their curricula and grading papers. They answer e-mails from students and parents during the evenings. And they work nights and weekends as they manage extracurricular activities.

Perfection doesn't exist. People should really stop looking for it in their school system.

London Calling - you couldn't be more right on in your post. The admin thinks we are all blind and stupid here obviosuly. The bus routes were taken in to hide the increasing transportation costs of the school placement, and the subsequent insane boundaries for some areas. Those areas need to wake up real quick as now that the unneeded 3rd HS is open, there will no longer be a need to supply double buses and activity buses to those who live more than 1/2 way across the district. As fuel costs rise in the future, which they undoubtedly will we will be burdened with an additional $1m or so / per year, forever hit for what has transpired.
The work we were told was done to justify the boundaries transportation cost wise etc. was obviously never done. The boundaries represent prior planning for what they wanted the school to be, the fact that some people have high schools closer to them in Wheaton and Lisle than MV means nothing. Stay vocal as we will all be faced very shortly with yet another referendum to pay for drunken sailor spending - and it will be a big one. Likely it will include things like A/C for some schools to try and hide the other issues. Just say no this time.

and John Q Public - First Student no longer does what you are asking- they drive the buses, that's it--your local school admin took over the bus routing and head counting etc.

By mark on August 25, 2009 12:57 PM
Wow. Sure didn't take long for the whining to begin, did it?

... Teachers already come in early to provide extra help for students. They work after classes end, preparing their curricula and grading papers. They answer e-mails from students and parents during the evenings. And they work nights and weekends as they manage extracurricular activities.

... Perfection doesn't exist. People should really stop looking for it in their school system.
----

Whining? you say. How about demanding the high level of services paid for. The annual budget for D204 is larger than most corporations. When buses leave children at the curb - that is poor service. When the D204 ignores a firestorm of commentary that changing start times from same time every day - that is a "tin" ear. All the "professional development" did was irritate people, screw up their work schedules, and wasted a lot of planning time that should have been spent on busing.

Teachers working before and after hours? well, welcome to the corporate world where most "professionals" do the same thing for about the same pay except for one thing - teachers get that amount for 9 months work give or take a few days, and a better pension than companies, most of whom are getting rid of pensions and replacing with 401Ks. I think our teachers are great, but the entitlement provisions of annual increases in salary and pensions is a warning to taxpayers of an unsustainable benefits.

Perfection does not exist? Yes you are right, but the opposite of perfection then should not exist, and we are doing just that in D204 today.

Another 204 Spin,

Thanks for the pep talk. I will need it. Regarding the next VOTE for anything, one has to assume an entire story not told, and a marketing element included just to get the YES vote (like adding AC to elementary schools). Sound familiar? (allow me to tittle your memory - a little panic marketing about double learning shifts, plus oversupply of students via crazy projections, plus under supply of HS capacity helped by taking out 1200 seats of HS for an unneeded middle school........ equals a new HS).

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" - Winston Chrchill

The taxpayers should begin today demanding line items for any referendum, or separate related referendums. This is not the federal or state government where kidney transplants and oil drilling are on the same bill.

So D204, separate out AC from all other items or the people may vote NO against the obvious ploy knitted into that future operating referendum.

And taxpayers, show no mercy for past transgressions! You have already paid enough.

from mark

...."share lockers because Waubonsie was so crowded. My daughters have shared lockers every year over here in D203, and they seem to have survived it just fine.."
----------------

do you have the old style lockers that are really tall- i could see 2 kids' fitting in those.

the lockers in 204 are new, and much smaller than the old ones.

if fact, scullen was short many lockers... when wheatland was closed down(50 year old school), the SD took those 50 year old lockers and installed them at scullen... they are much taller than the current lockers.

I have moved often with my job and thank the good Lord we are leaving Naperville. I have lived all over this country and have never seen a group of corrupted School Administrators, whinning parents and %$^&* up'd district as this one. I can't believe the admin and parents can't see eye to eye in this district on anything!! There is a very good chance we will have to move back to Naperville for work again in the future. 203 here we come. It's not perfect there either, but a lot less drama!!!!

Our district is turning into the laughingstock of the state. At one time our district was held up as the benchmark of a great public education system but no more. Our district is a mess. Kathy Birkett as well as the previous school board helped destroy us, Dr. Daeschner came in for a short time to continue the destruction, and now Kathy Birkett will put the final nail in the coffin.

The latest is taking over First Student bussing. WTH? We're a school district in the business of educating kids why are we running a bussing business too? As evidenced by the last several days of bus transportation, we have no business doing so. How hard is it to put a plan in place to transport kids to the schools? Apparently impossible for Karla Zozulia and the administration. Busses are packed, late, and don't show up. Our district was so secretive about putting routes out for the public to see. Why not be honest and say our transportation costs will increase with the 3rd high school? No can do. We have to lie and hide behind pathetic and false information. They've eliminated a lot of stops and some of the bus stops have upwards of 15-20 kids getting on. Kids are walking farther than ever (not necessarily a bad thing) but again rather than be honest and saying this is a cost savings thing they hide and say nothing. I'm sick of the games our district plays.

We need more people like London Calling to stand up and call-out the school board and adminstration for their mistakes. Call a spade a spade.

Can anyone tell me why Waubonsie is still crowded after a 3 district high school was opened? What am I missing?

to So Glad I am Moving on

203 won't let you in... you don't know how to spell 'whining'

So Glad I am Moving on August 25, 2009 4:37 PM
I have lived all over this country and have never seen a group of corrupted School Administrators, whinning parents and %$^&* up'd district as this one. I can't believe the admin and parents can't see eye to eye in this district on anything! There is a very good chance we will have to move back to Naperville for work again in the future. 203 here we come.

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Do you have kids So Glad? (Your post doesn't say so). I've lived in a few places myself and can tell you that Naperville is not unique in their school issues. You would be hard pressed to find many areas that don't share similar problems - Naperville is not an outlier in this regard.

I would add that in addition to people complaining about the schools, there are always a percentage of people like you who wait until they are leaving before they rip into their neighbors like you have done. If you do move back into D203 I guess that's just going to be our loss! Who knows, if you do have kids, maybe your leaving will actually improve D204? Did you ever think that maybe you are also part of the problem, or is it easier to just blame everyone else?

(And as an aside - if you are going to rip into us, the correct spelling is Whining, not Whinning (sic)).

Why is everyone saying that First Student is not running the buses? This article says they are:

Three appalling incidents involving Cincinnati-based First Student Inc. bus drivers were just glitches, and Indian Prairie School District 204 officials say they are not concerned about staying on board with the busing company again this school year.

"We're running 3 to 4 million miles of bus service per year, and the number of incidents — while there were a couple that made the news — is a pretty low level," said Curt Bradshaw, school board president. "Anything over one is unacceptable, but the reality is there's still a quality service that's being provided."

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1732482,D204-sticking-with-First-Student_na082509.article

Anonymous2: I'm sorry. If the new lockers are indeed smaller than the full-sized ones, then you are right: It's not fair that students have to share them. I apologize for not checking out the facts before I spoke.

What The?: I do indeed think that a standing late start time every Wednesday is absurd. Anything that takes instruction time away from students is a bad idea. However, your argument about teacher benefits isn't fair. Sure, they get pensions, but remember that they don't receive (or pay into) Social Security (but they sure do pay into the teachers' retirement plan). And the fact that corporations are abandoning pensions in favor of 401(k)s is not the fault of teachers.

Let's not make this about teacher compensation. The fact is, Indian Prairie teacher salaries are just a hair above the state average, which is not out of line for the state's fourth-largest school district. And while they make a good buck, it's hardly excessive.

First Student is running the buses, but District 204 is in charge of routing the buses. This used to be done by First Student but the district wanted more control this year so they took it over.

The buck stops with Kathy Birkett!!!! She wanted the job, well it looks like business as usual. I am tired of them making mistakes at our childrens expense. I was told it was going to take 2 years of crowding at WVHS to correct itself. This was from an administrator!!!!! Mistake after mistake, and we keep voting these people in on the school board.

To What the? and Another 204 Spin,

Thanks for the corrections on First Student. I don't live in District 204, so I don't follow it that closely. In fact, I don't usually comment here on 204 issues, but this busing snafu just seems ridiculous, whoever is responsible for it.

-JQP

Nice post, Mark.

It is unfortunate and inexcusable the that the bus schedules were so poorly planned. But by the end of the school year, and the end of many students' high school years, it will be mostly forgotten. Instead of whining about it, let's ask how can I help to resolve it.

There is a segment that wants to whine that the community chose to build a third high school, that they don't like the location, and they hoped that it would not open on time. This blog, the DH blogs, and the Proboards give them a forum to whine but they do not represent a majority of the district even if the Sun reporters flock to them.

Now, I'm sure the the School Board has caused it to rain today since this is the first day with a later start because everything is the fault of the School Board.

In my subdivision, I never understood why there was five stops in 1/3 of a mile. In this year's original schedule, there were two. Now, it is up to 3. Maybe you want 5 stops for an elementary school bus. But, I think high schoolers can walk up to .25 mile to a bus stop. I shake my head at those in Aero Estates who need to be picked up in front of their houses. ♠

My son just watched as his school bus turned down the wrong street and missed his stop entirely, leaving him and five others standing in the rain. How incomptent does First Student have to be before the District bounces them?

Hope the teachers are enjoying their Wednesday morning coffee talk while students stand out in the rain.

To Mark, who wrote "Perfection doesn't exist. People should really stop looking for it in their school system."

What we are getting here in 204 is the complete opposite of perfection. And it is unacceptable.

This district counts on the parents to pick up the slack for them (whether it's not picking up the kids for school, poor instruction, whatever). They know we will drive our kids to school, teach them whatever they didn't learn in school, etc.

My younger child will finish at a private high school because I am DONE with this district. I simply have no confidence in their ability to educate the kids to their potential. It makes me sick to think of the high taxes we pay here for what we get. And the worst part is when the district makes a mistake, they never admit it. I would have much more respect for them if they did. There is always a spin job, or an attack job. Pathetic.

You're right - the 3rd high school was supposed to relieve overcrowding. Well, that hasn't happened too much. Do you realize many of the freshmen eat lunch at 9:20 in the morning right in the rotunda when you walk in by the Adminstration? Waubonsie is more crowded than ever!

Take a look at Neuqua. It's hardly any less crowded with over 4000 students. But Metea sits there very underutilized. We got snowballed and got a schol in the middle of nowhere that wasn't neeed.

To all complainers:
School has been in session 4 days. Busing issues happen every fall. This year may be more pronounced due to the new boundaries. We should all take a breathe and give it a few more days. I am confident that issues will be resolved.

I am surprised at the accusations against our district, superintendent and teachers in general. We are all intelligent, informed adults. We should act and vote accordingly, not cry about situations that we helped shape.

Regarding professional development- The late start allows teachers to work toward improvements WITHOUT taking them out of the classroom during the school day. I haven't heard one viable solution offered among the myriad of complaints. Most other districts don't offer this opportunity, as they apparently don't care as deeply about upholding their standards of excellence as D204 does.

I believe we have a competent administration in place. Furthermore, every teacher & administrator I have dealt with proves by their words and deeds that our children are their top priority. While I may not be excited about my tax bill, I am satisfied that our children are reeping the benefits of a committed staff in D204. Remember- kids take things in stride a lot better than we adults do. Are these complaints from us or our children??

204 supporter

My 4 boys(I just gave myself away) have been in 204 for 16 years. I promise you that this past year has been the most disappointing year ever. Any teacher/administrator could confirm that our family has been nothing but the biggest cheerleaders, up until now. With my oldest son off the NVHS to complete his 4 year stint my sophomore stands at the bus stop for WVHS wondering if it will show, when, and where he will sit. Should I mention the language and inpatience used by the VERY UNPROFESSIONAL driver?? I am beyond SAD. Please note, not only is the bus overcrowded, how about the school? Monday I walked the halls of Neuqua, during passing period. Quiet, controlled, half empty. I also walked at WV, OMG!!! Parents, please call and request a visitors pass. It will blow your mind. Overcrowded and crazy! If anyone tells you differently THEY ARE LYING! What just happened? Tall Grass got THE SHAFT and we all need to admit that we allowed this school district to screw us over! We have no one to blame but ourselves!

Has anyone ever noticed that the only people who disagree with our unhappiness regarding Dist.204 are either not living in the district or their kids are at Neuqua? Also, don't forget the friends and family of board members. Quit telling me to stop whinning! You really have no idea!

By mark on August 25, 2009 5:31 PM
Anonymous2: What The?: I do indeed think that a standing late start time every Wednesday is absurd. Anything that takes instruction time away from students is a bad idea. However, your argument about teacher benefits isn't fair. Sure, they get pensions, but remember that they don't receive (or pay into) Social Security (but they sure do pay into the teachers' retirement plan). And the fact that corporations are abandoning pensions in favor of 401(k)s is not the fault of teachers.
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mark, I too, do't want to make this about the teachers who I love and respect. However, they should be as flexible as other professionals, especially given the professional level of compensation and superior benefits to private employees.

Social Security is bankrupt already, having been stolen from by politicians for 25 years with no means to pay back the IOUs. That too, means professionals, who are losing pensions, will not be able to rely on retirement benefits from social security either - at the current pace of theft by your elected officials. So, great for the teachers, and more reason to be thankful and flexible.

Please. NV half empty. We're supposed to believe that? It's just not true.

My kids aren't at Neuqua. And I'm very happy with the phyiscal buidlings at WV, the school administration, and the teachers. So stop whining. If you don't like something, become part of the solution.

Wed late start completely disregards the needs and the situation of working parents. When it was first proposed, we wrote to express that it is simply not workable for working families. Teachers should be able to come in 20 minutes early for this instead of disrupting lives of thousands of families with multiple children, schedules and commitments. Please don't tell me about 20 minutes not making a difference. It does! For those of us driving to work in traffic, needing to be in meetings, etc. 20 minutes makes a HUGE difference to us. I was able to ensure that my 6th grader gets on a 7:30 bus and then I was able to get to work on time. Now I have to have arrangements for someone to be here to ensure that at 7:50 (or whaterver) he is not bus, the house is locked, etc. Of course, the school district could care less! Younger children of working parents are dropped off at a variety of before school sites (day cares, family cares, etc.). Now, they need to ensure that Wed are taken care of as well! This district never cared about working parents and I have had a number of kids going through it. I have never heard of elementary school starting at 9 and we lived in other states. We have been paying for before and after school care for years for each child going through this district. Everytime they change a school calendar shifting school breaks, we need to make sure that our child care providers, YMCA, etc. are also in sync so we have care for the kids. Most of us have only 2-3 weeks vacation these shifts create chaos every time, plus $$$$$, but I guess who cares!

In response to Oh Debbie's comment, "Please. NV half empty. We're supposed to believe that? It's just not true. My kids aren't at Neuqua."

Um, if your kids aren't at Neuqua and you haven't requested a pass to view the situation then you wouldn't know.

Quit preaching to others who have legitimate concerns. That's part of the problem here in 204.

And why should the parents be the solution to every district mistake? We pay the bill and then clean up after them?! Can I have a refund?

Lastly,to 204 supporter who wrote:, "Busing issues happen every fall"

The "busing problems" were not minor. They were major. And in some cases they resulted in jeopordizing the safety of the kids (standing on the bus?!) Again, the district knows the parents will get their kids to school no matter how bad the district screws up. But what happened here was not minor as you suggest. We need more truthfulness in this district and some accountability.

You mean there's actually someone out there who is supposedly happy with the physical buildings at WV? Seriously? You must be joking. Are you really that big of a school board/administration cheerleader to say such lies? I agree many of the teachers and administrators are top-notch but the physical building? Come on! What are you smoking? It is an old, junky building that has been added on so many times you can't even use the 3rd floor from side to side. Don't pretend there's anything good about the physical building!

For that matter, just see what the school board says about WV in a few years when they come to the realization that we can't afford 3 high schools (lower enrollment, poor financial health, etc.). Then the party line will change to "the building is almost 50 years old and unnaceptable....." Wake up people don't believe what the school board is telling you - it's all lies.

They're already working on marketing the 2010 referendum. It will include the need for AC at the elementary buildings, operating budget for Matea, etc. It will be packaged and sold as we'll have to close the freshmen center at NV and we'll have to close Waubonsie down the road if you don't support the referendum. Don't fall for it people. Vote NO for any future referendum.

To Working Parent,

Your complaints are completely valid. I find it ironic that the district implemented the Professional Development Day under the guise of offering better learning opportunities to its students while it takes instructional time away in the process.

I also think it speaks volumes that the administrators, teachers, and other staff believe it is important not to inconvenience themselves, but think nothing of disrupting schedules and routines for bus companies, daycares, students, working parents, carpools, and family schedules. Looking at the numbers, if the administrators and staff came in 20 minutes earlier one day a week it would not be disruptive to the masses. They don't seem to want to put in an additional 20 minutes a week for the betterment of their community? That averages out to 4 additional minutes a DAY per week. They aren't willing to do that? Instead, they put it all on their community and offer confusing start times and a rotating schedule. Community complaints fell on deaf ears.

It appears they aren't walking the walk when they say they want to offer the best education possible and they want to offer better opportunities to their students for assistance. It's all smoke and mirrors. Remember this the next time there is an opportunity to vote. They consistently want more as far as benefits and compensation, but offer less and less in education and instructional time and are not willing to meet us in the middle. How can you offer a better, more quality education when our teachers are spending less and less time in the classrooms teaching?

...but its difficult. 3 to a seat (beyond K-1st Grade) is unacceptable, standing on a bus is unacceptable, leaving kids at a bus stop is unacceptable. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: Bus stop in our neighborhood was reduced from 3 to 1 however in order for the bus to "get back on route" it passes the previous 2 stops. Additionally, there is a second (EMPTY) bus that immediately follows the "assigned" neighborhood bus that picks up/drops off 2 children every day.

Unfortunately, especially for those with long time ties to this community, WV will be closed within the next 10 years.

Finally, I have found others expressing concern over a district that most I have come in contact with bubble with complements. I have lived in the area over 30 years, but I did not attend Naperville schools. Needless to say, I expected quite a bit when my youngest started school. I voiced my displeasure over all day kindergarten -- this fell on deaf ears. I requested more information on the Wednesday professional development activities -- this resulted in vague responses. Now, I have contacted the school and district 4 times regarding the busing situation -- I am still awaiting something...anything....

Conscientious Observer hit the nail on the head "It appears they aren't walking the walk when they say they want to offer the best education possible and they want to offer better opportunities to their students for assistance. It's all smoke and mirrors." I have felt this since day one.

My main question is what do we do about it? Of course election time and votes are important, but there has to be an avenue to create change now.

NV IS NOT 1/2 Empty people. The last count was OVER 4,400!!!!! The freshman campus is wall to wall kids.

Kathy Birkett is awesome, give her a fair chance.

Bus issues will work out.

to:

By You've got to be kidding! on August 26, 2009 12:42 PM

...It will be packaged and sold as we'll have to close the freshmen center at NV...

I'd like to see them try that one. There is no way the City of Naperville's building inspector's will allow all those kids in one building.

To Solution Seeker:

I'm afraid there is not anything you can do to actually enact change except to get enough people out to vote so as to ensure incumbents like Mark Metzger do not get re-elected in 2011.

Pointing out the incompetence along the way will keep it fresh in people's minds when it comes time to go to the booth.

I'll also confirm the quality of the education has gone down each year. I've already witnessed multiple kids work their way through the system and it has ratcheted down consistently each time.

But Danny,

According to Debbie, NV is 1/2 empty. We can shut down the freshmen center and move all the students to NV and there will be plenty of room left.

And, it's Metea not Matea.

I think the only way to create change is to continue to be involved, do our research, communicate with the school board and school administration, hold them accountable, and not to accept mediocrity. If we continue to be vocal about the high standards we expect, maybe they will come. Or they'll make the changes just to get us off their backs. That would work, too.

The buses were a problem in my neighborhood on Thursday. It was fixed on Friday. What's the big deal?

Moderator, sometime you should just post the topic "District 204" with no explanation. You dont have to say anything else. You dont need a thesis for the discussion positive or negative. Just print the words.

That title alone is enough to attract the standard crowd of "I used to go to to NV and now I'm at WV" as well as the "If I pay one more dime in tax I wont ever be able to buy furniture for the three empty rooms in my house" and dont forget the "I send my kids to private shool/my kids are out of school" crowd.

Debbie is my current favorite. Keep posting girl! You crack me up!

About the closing of the NV freshmen center: my understanding has always been that the plan is to close the freshmen centers as soon as declining enrollment allows. They were constructed under the premise that this would avoid the need for a 3rd HS, which is now Metea. I remember the board saying at the boundary meetings that the freshmen campuses would be made back into middle schools once a third HS was built. This will probably happen once construction at Metea is completed and it is at full capacity.

To Civics,

Glad to hear your had your problems sorted out by Friday of last week. The 'big deal' as you asked is that not everyone was as fortunate as you. The rest of your post just embarrasses yourself.

To Original 'what the?'

Declining enrollment will not require the NV freshman center to be made into a MS. Look for property to be sold or closed outright instead. Not necessarily that property, but there are others that are operating at a low enough percentage that could be 'consolidated'.

Get your facts right wrote: "NV IS NOT 1/2 Empty people. The last count was OVER 4,400!!!!!"

Get your facts - your facts are wrong:

According to the district website's FAQ regarding high school transition, the enrollment predictions are:

Year: NVHS WVHS

09/10 3950 3150
10/11 3800 2890
11/12 3550 2550

We know their numbers have not been right in the past, so current enrollment at NVHS could well be lower. It is clear that WVHS is considerably more overcrowded (with only 1 building vs. Neuqua's 2) currently than NVHS (so Debbie has a very valid point). Additionally, it is clear that they expect enrollment to shrink. Closing a building could well be a reality. With the poor economy and the district's troubles, I don't think people are flocking to 204.

Gee, Civics, you apparently buy everything the school board sells you. Let me get this right, divert the issue by blaming everything on Tall Grass/White Eagle right (though you didn't spell those neighborhoods out you implied them with "I used to go to NV and now I'm at WV")? yeah, they're the only ones disappointed in the way our district is run? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Wake up! A lot of people are now waking up and realizing how pathetic our school district is. We're a mess.

Besides your post carries a complete air of jealousy - sorry if you don't live in a house with 3 empty rooms. Let me figure this out, you live next to Mark Metzger, right?

LOL. Neuqua trails WVHS on several points - elimination of (worthless) advisory periods and the Freshmen Center being two of them. Don't worry, NV will catch up one of these years. :-))

As a 9 year resident of Tall grass I can honestly say the residents of our neighborhood got screwed when our children were forced to go to WVH instead of NV. We were told when we built the house, that our kids would be going to NV...This was one of the reasons we built in that neighborhood. Now we are in a gang infested school.

London Calling (aka DrWho?),

Are you a little bummed that their aren't more issues to try and tear the school district apart on? Do you even have kids in the District? Why not focus your efforts on something worthwhile rather than jumping on anything to bash the district?

By the way, the kids love Metea.

To tall grass mother. Why aren't you mad at the builder who made you pay $750K for a house that is now worth $500K?

Ps WV is not gang infested.

Tall Grass - Unfortunately that's how it goes. You can change schools in a district, but can never change districts. That's why I'm only living in the 203.

Please be careful believing stuff that people post. I'm not saying that TG mother isn't really a Tall Grass mother but maybe she's not. It could be someone posting as such just to stir things up.

By the way, WV is not gang infested.

To Tall Grass Mother,

I'm very sorry that you feel that way. In many ways, I feel that WVHS is a superior school to NV and does a much better job in preparing our teens for the life challenges ahead of them. It's a great school and the diversity at WV provides opportunities for learning and growth that I don't thnk exist at NV. Just my opinion. But, with the stance you've taken. you and your children will never benefit from really being part of the WV family.

Are there gang members at WV. Of course. To think otherwise would be naive. But there are gang members at NV too. And drugs. And alcohol. And fights. You may try to hide from it, you may try to hide your teens from it. But it does exist.

Lots of areas were told that their teens would attend Neuqua. If that were still true, WV would have 1000 students and NV would have 7000. It's just not practical.

Don't worry our district is in great financial shape. MV, WV, and NV are all top schools. We are the strongest district in the state. Everyone is still flocking to Naperville to buy in 204. The real estate values are rebounding and enrollment will be increasing. We won't need a referendum any time soon. Everyone loves 204! Anyone believe any of this?

Regarding the Professional Development Days, these were not implemented to improve instruction, that's just what the school board/administration says to make it sound good.

The real reason for this change is that it is a major item on the union wish list. The SB is giving the union a gift in hopes of keeping them happy during the next contract negotiations.

By Anonymous on August 27, 2009 2:42 PM
Regarding the Professional Development Days, these were not implemented to improve instruction, that's just what the school board/administration says to make it sound good.

The real reason for this change is that it is a major item on the union wish list. The SB is giving the union a gift in hopes of keeping them happy during the next contract negotiations.
*******************

If you are correct, what a great bargaining ploy on the part of the Board. Give the union something that doesn't cost anything but will make them happy.

To Anonymous on August 27, 2009 3:56 PM,

Add up the missed instruction time for the entire year for all students and it would be hard pressed to claim that it "doesn't cost anything".

Anonymous wrote: "If you are correct, what a great bargaining ploy on the part of the Board. Give the union something that doesn't cost anything but will make them happy."

So it makes the teachers "happy" when they have to teach less?

And this is supposed to "help" the students...

Well way to go District 204! We've all been sold a bill of goods.

All I know is this ..... my kids are happy and doing GREAT in District 204 Schools. They have been since the day they started, and they continue to as of today. Is it perfect or utopia here? No. But my kids have more opportunities than I did, and at least as many as kids I know in any other school district, often more. I tell them all the time, you will get as much out of your school as you are willing to put in, and I believe that's true no matter where you go, be it WV, NV, or MV. If all you focus on is how unfair things are and what the shortcomings are of whatever school you attend, you will never reap the great benefits available to you, and sadly, neither will your children. Try focusing on the positive if you can, there's plenty of it out there ..... unless you are only willing to see the negative, if you are, that is all you will ever find.

alloveragain, I appreciate your spirit, but real issues get in the way of my ability to "see no evil".

Our kids are not getting the first rate education that this district tries to act like they are providing.

I'm sorry to tell you that - but my kids are older and I have taken off the rose colored glasses. Rather than be cheerleaders for the district (which they promote through the PTA's), hold them acccountable for doing their job.

We more than pay for it here.

To 'alloveragain'

Shining a light on the negative aspects of things does not mean that is all one sees. The reason to point them out and bring them to the attention of the powers that be is so they can get fixed, remedied or mitigated depending on the specifics. Ignoring problems lets them grow into larger and more costly ones down the line.

Do you fix your roof the moment it starts to dribble or do you wait until buckets of water are pouring? Or, better still, do you ignore it entirely and say "Well, at least the wet carpet matched the moldy drapes!"

Original Joe

Frankly Joe, I dont think you ARE happy my busing problems were sorted out quickly. I suspect you were being ironic, eh? I note that sarcasm doesnt really work out in print. It usually just makes the writer seem petulant and unsophisticated.

Furthermore, I dont feel embarassed in the least.

My point is that there is a constant drumbeat of moaning on these boards every time District 204 comes up. And its the same crowd time after time. And typically they can be divided into three overlapping groups (four -- I added one):

1) I dont like the school I am now assigned to so I will miss no opportunity to criticize the district.

2) I dont like the level of my taxes because I dont have kids in the district so I will miss no opportunity to criticize the district.

3) I dont like the level of my taxes because I am stretched to the breaking point financially so I will miss no opportunity to criticize the district.

4) I dont like the level of my taxes because I would simply rather spend that money some other way than on schools so I will miss no opportunity to criticize the district.

In any of the four instances, I do not begrudge the people their right to moan. But I wish they would be honest about their motives for the moan and acknowledge the root of their unhappiness.

I get tired of reading baseless opinions about how the board, the administrators, the teachers, the bus companies, etc etc are dishonest, venal, greedy, and incompetent. Opinions written by people who I suspect have very little first hand knowledge.

--------------------------------------

Perhaps I should have just said all that in the first place rather than writting what I did. So here you are. I will try to be more plain spoken in the future.

Civics,

I am glad yours is fixed. I don't like to see problems perpetuate especially when they should have been planned out and debugged well in advance of the first day of school. The people running the show are supposedly professionals at this and if they are not then they should hire some real professionals who can do the tasks for which they are paid.

It sounds like your list of 4 is what you yourself try to fit people into who complain about anything.

I'll happily concede your point about the four categories if you can tell me exactly which of your 4 categories does someone fit into who's kid was not picked up by a bus at all or their kid had to STAND on the bus while it was transporting kids to and from school and they were unhappy about that fact.

Let me just say that you can continue to bash the bus company, but...they are just being handed a mess and are told where to go and transport these children. We can all point the finger at them, but they didnt ask the district to take over the routing, the district told them they were taking it over. The two incidents they had last year could happen at anyone's job. The difference is, they transport children. They do their back ground checks etc, so who would have known? Don't tell me that they had anyway to know! They have been around here for a long time in Naperville and transport many children daily. So quit blaming them for things that happen which they could not control. District should let them take over our bus routes and let them do the job they are trained to do......ROUTE OUR KIDS TO SCHOOL!!

Original Joe

Thanks. I appreciate the response. You make several good points.

First, yes, when I read people ranting outrageously about corrupt (insert a school district profession here) and flinging all manner of accusations then I think they have an ax to grind that has little to do with some bus problems or whatever the topic-of-the-day actually is.

If you have been reading these boards for the last few years, you know just what I am talking about. And I think my 4 categories are pretty darn good ones for the type of poster I am talking about.

Second, I think the bus situation was diabolical. How complicated is it to schedule the buses? More complicated than your or I think is probably the answer. Nevertheless, I am sure it is not beyond the wit of somebody with a little experience and common sense to get it right. From my own experiences on line, I know the schedules and assignments were changing hour by hour on the day before school. Why is that necessary? Couldnt that have been worked out WEEKS before?

Had my kid been standing at his assigned stop, waiting for his assigned bus that first day, he would have never gotten to school. Fortunately for us, many of his friends on our street were scheduled on a different bus so he got on that one. So I do feel for the people who were in a similar situation but not as fortunate as we were. They have every right to be steamed...I know I was. (And FWIW, I stood on our bus when I was a kid about 50% of the time. Not ideal, not safe, but I have a hard time getting too worked up about it for a day or two.)

So by all means, be unhappy about the buses. Gripe and moan. Call the school and demand they fix it. But ease up on the rest of the diatribe, or be called for what you probably are.....a member of one of my 4 categories!

Original Joe

by the way...when I said 'you' I did not mean YOU, Original Joe. I mean all the OTHER yous on the boards. sorry if there is any misunderstanding.

Civic,

I got the distinction, but thank you for pointing it out.

There's no denying there are some that just like to complain for complaining sake. I do like to remind myself that even a broken clock is right twice a day and want to try to understand why someone is upset because often times it can save us pain down the line to be aware of things. On the flip-side of the coin there are some who will deny until the cows come home that anything possibly could be wrong or off-skew and will quickly call someone who raises a question or concern as someone who 'obviously hates children', is 'anti-district' or is a 'racist' or 'elitist' as we saw the past two years. It seems as if there is some sense of obligation to attack anyone who dare 'steps out of line' and that smiting them and keeping the status quo is more important than anything they may have to say.

It's nice that we both agree that not everyone falls into one of these buckets.

To Civics who stated, "In any of the four instances, I do not begrudge the people their right to moan. But I wish they would be honest about their motives for the moan and acknowledge the root of their unhappiness."

I don't fit your 4 categories. I'm sure many others who are dissatisfied with 204 do not either.

I have had kids in this district for 10 years. I have seen time and time again the district refuse to take responsibility for something that is their responsibility (whether that be academic or otherwise). They meet any legitimate concerns with an attitude of they're great and we're the problem.

I've come to the conclusion that they're the problem. My youngest will attend private high school so I can rest assured they will learn the skills they need to succeed. And I will NEVER vote for another referendum. That's not to say I find fault with everthing the district does. But I've lost count of the situations they've mishandled.

If it's just a few disgruntled parents who think their taxes are too high, why does there not seem to be the same level of dissatisfaction with 203?

I think anytime someone says something negative about 204, we hear the same drumbeat from the supporters. "it's just a few people, they don't want to pay the taxes, blah blah." I don't think so. I believe many who live here would have chosen 203 if they had it all to do over again.

Civics I hope that I never meet you in a dark alley.....you must be a pretty large person to paint with such a broad brush.

How tall are you 8' 2", 8'3"? : )

********************************************************************

Seriously, you may have rationalized your "4 groups" however you doing disservice to the entire process by shooting first and asking questions later....

Never suggesting that if a problem exists it should be ignored ..... quite the opposite. I just believe that fixing a problem, or 10, should not override all that is right. So often, any mention of District 204 brings out nothing but criticism .... some criticism is justified, but it's at least as important to note that not everyone in the district has horrible experiences or feels the sky is falling. My kids aren't just entering the system .... I have a Freshman in High School, and a 7th Grader. We had two bus glitches, one was very minor, the other required some juggling on my part. I'm a single Mom, and I work full-time, so that isn't something easy to deal with ...... but those glitches were worked out immediately, and to focus on that instead of the fact that my kids like their teachers, have done well on the limited amount of work they've needed to complete so far (including honors English papers required over summer break) .... and are already enjoying their involvement in extracurricular activities, doesn't seem like the best approach. I am ALL for fixing whatever might be broken within the district - I just think that pointing out that not everyone is seeing devastating failures around every corner is equally important.

Interesting comments Tina.

Do not assume that I think everything is great in 204. I know it isnt.

I do not know why it seems there is less noise out of 203. However, I notice a couple of things and have a few thoughts.

First, whenever I have seen a 203 topic on these blogs, I see that they are hotly debated. Usually they revolve around spending, taxes, capital spending, teacher and administrator salaries, budgets etc. There are 203 appologists as well as 203 bashers. Things get pretty hot over there too, and over many of the same topics.

Second, I do not think 203 has faced anything like the single issue that has consumed people in 204 for the past 5 or 6 years -- building a new high school. The cost, the boundaries, the location, the demographics of existing schools... have all been enormous issues with which to contend. 203 has had nothing similar.

Third, I think that 203 is more heterogeneous demographically and compact geographically. Their schools are very close together, of similar vintage, and located closer to the center of the district. So there little to beef about from people who might perceive a split between "haves" and "have nots".

I also wonder about the mentality of the people in 203 vs 204. This is dangerous and speculative ground....but... I wonder why when one of those 'Gregory Kids' moved to 203 there was nowhere near the hysterics in 203 that were going on in 204?

About your choice, I ask you a question: Why are you moving to a private school? You say your kids "will learn the skills they need to succeed." But isnt that about education standard rather than the politics of the board or the administrators? One thing I have seen almost none of on these boards is any complaint about the academic standards in 204. So are you moving your kids because you think the education is poor in 204 or because you dont like the politics in 204?

Finally, no matter whether your kids go to private shools or not, you still have an interest in the success of 204 because your property values are tied to it. So vote down the referendums if you wish. Ignore the school board elections. But be careful not to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Clever Irony

Have you ever heard the saying "All broad generalizations are wrong. Including this one." ?

You will never meet anyone who agrees with that more than I do.

I am not sure what "process" I am doing a disservice to. If it is the process of honest and constructive debate, lord knows I see little enough of that here!

I have been watching these boards for a number of years now. And I stand by my 4 categories as true enough based on much of what see written. And for those few who feel unfairly painted by my broad brush (Tina, Original Joe, and any others), I appologize now.

Winnetka Public School District 36 here we come!

Civics at 2:13 pm:

You bring up some good -- and brave -- points.

The recent skirmish in 203 over how to deal with over-crowding -- do we renovate Naperville Central or tear it down to build a new one -- certainly had people humming over here. As a parent of kids in Central, I certainly don't like the fact that our kids are going to school this year in a construction zone, and I think it's tough that our seniors on our football team won't have a home game on their home field this year. But that's the way it is. We accepted the decision and we moved on.

(Although I agree that the boundary issue was not handled well by the SB. While I support the Board's stand on some issues -- they have to enforce boundaries -- the decision to split families is really indefensible.)

You are also mostly right about the makeup of 203. We are more compact geographically, and while there are certainly economic differences throughout the district(we have more Section 8 housing in 203), I don't notice anywhere near the friction that exists in 204 (although it certainly exists). Frankly, I was stunned by the comments I would see on this blog from certain people in certain neighborhoods concerning where their kids would go to school. The way some people in Tall Grass and other subdivisions were carrying on, you'd think their children were being sent to school in war-torn Bosnia instead of a great school like WV. The classism and snobbery on display here was disgusting.

Finally, your point on the "mentality" of 203 parents was interesting. I happen to live in the neighborhood where the Gregory Kid was sent (Lincoln Junior High). None of my neighbors who had kids there were thrilled with the idea of this kid attending this school, but he had a legal right to be there, the school was keeping a close eye on things, and the parents were alert. We didn't have a nutty; we didn't storm School Board meetings and demand that this kid be flayed alive. We understood the decision, accepted it and did all we could to make sure our kids were safe. In short, we handled it like adults. I can only imagine what would have happened if this kid was sent to another school in 204. The parents would have gone mad.

Problems or not, great education or not, the taxes in 204 are basically "killing" everyone, given the economy and everything else, etc. Maybe we don't hear from 203 because their taxes are lower, not by much, but by a good amount, if you compare the same home values (I know directly from people who managed to sell their homes and move to 203). 204 taxes are simply not sustainable over a long period of time. We have 4 kids in 204, we have been here for some time, but the last two years the taxes have just become increasingly frustrating to pay. So, when even a small issue comes up with 204, the frustrastion with taxes does generate the feedback seen here. We always voted for referendums for public schools, here and elsewhere. However, we simply cannot afford the taxes anymore. The system will not survive over time because most residents won't be able to sustain the increase in taxes.

Civis, yes, we will be moving to a private high school because we strongly believe the quality of the education is better.

Simple tests scores would prove that. But 10 years in 204 also does. We get alot of smoke and mirrors here, but when you dig a little deeper and pay closer attention, it is disappointing. Yes, there are great teachers, but there are extremely poor ones too who are protected by tenure and apparently the administration. If your kid gets one of those, be prepared for the kid to teach themselves or you teach them.

The politics of 204 add to the problem. The district is so busy dealing with so many other issues besides the education of the children - and boy does it show.

And no, I do not plan to vote to give these people one more dollar. Nice try with the threats - that's what we always get. Trouble is I've lived here too long to buy their threats.

With all the cheerleaders the district has, I'm sure there will still be plenty of people who believe 204 is the land of milk and honey (even as enrollment slips). But I've discoverd that it is not, and I'm going to pay for a better education.

To mark on August 29, 2009 7:03 AM,

Not everyone claiming to be from a certain neighborhood while acting like an a$$ are actually from that neighborhood. Believe it or not, some people actually try to go out of their way to pretend to be from there just to make the perceptions look worse than reality.

Anyone can also claim to be from Brookdale or Stonebridge and write "Nyah Nyah Nyah, we finally got OUR high school! You have to help pay for it and now you're also stuck at WV!"

It doesn't mean it's indicative of people from those places.

I strongly believe that Tall Grass Mom is not a Tall Grass mom, but a munipulative person, now safely tucked away from diversity (who promoted it when they were in WV - but always really wanted to "escape" it by pounding away on local SB members until they got what they wanted - their own nice new "safe" school like NV), so no problem using WVHS now as needed to get the effect desired with lettle concern about spreading negative perceptions - in this case trying to imply that Tall Grass Mom and therefore, all TG, are racist, entitled, etc.

The same crap was done in the build-up to the new HS. And of course you always had that one parent who makes an elitist quote - and everyone, including the newspaper jumps on the bandwagon - because it stirs the pot.

The facts, however, for most TG people, were always the farther distance to WVHS than NVHS (virtually across the street - and even connected by a bridge over rt 59). That was it, plain and simple.

That is also why TG had the strongest voter turnout for the new HS at the BB property - the geographic distance, plain and simple. So don't even bite again people of D204.

If I may suggest, let's try to keep the arguments along the lines of competencies, fiscal responsibility, and safety of children, because these are the ingredients to success for the kids, our real estate values, etc. It also happens to be the success factors in all school districts.

Many people do not know that Tall Grass is one of the most diverse communities in the district, and not only diverse, but with many top students (along with White Eagle) now moving to WVHS. The projections are that WVHS will have the top students and teachers in the district when this is all over.

However, there will still remain the distance - the main and original problem, and therefore, many TG people may want to leave rather than stay. The most positive thing for D204 right now, is the poor economy, because people cannot move, and they will be forced to slow down their reckless spending. So by the time the economy is fully corrected, the positive results at WVHS will bring acceptance in TG/WE. I suspect NVHS will actually see quite a hit academically. I know, because I saw the numbers first hand, worked by many people, in many ways.

The funny thing - once WVHS is peaking, the district will shut it down, with many trumped up issues to sell the idea of fiscal responsibility requiring a shutdown of a perfectly young school (at about 40 years old by then) compared to Naper Central for example (over 100 years old), etc.

In reference to the letter to the editor in the SUN about the D204 taxpayers having been duped, and the those trying to hold back democracy at work:

Example of what I speak from that Paul White LTE and in addition:

1) 2009-10 enrollment actually being 8400ish -- nearly 2000 kids below the original projections of the NIU study results of about 10,200ish, projections that were progressively dropped from 11,200 originally, to around 9400 after the voters had already decided a new HS was needed, then to 8900 in early 2009 - when SB member Vickers dropped her support for the new HS based on the enrollment and the economy. A demograher would have confirmed what the leadership already knew, but did not fit the planned scheme, so they refused to hire one so they could minipulate the ignorant masses and their hysterical/gullable supporters.

2) Converting of the WVHS Gold freshman campus to a new Middle School that effectively cut another 1200 seats (or more because these are huge schools people - upwords of 1400++ in reality) off the HS capacity ...an action supported by Mark Metzger comments in the newspaper like "we will have a Middle School surplus of over 1000 kids" - said not 2 years ago, but earlier this year! In reality, we had peaked the MS enrollment at just over 7000 students last year - acommodated quite nicely without a new MS last year.

3) The district knew this very same 8400 HS enrollment projection all the way back to 2000, when the gold campuses were being promoted. In fact the quoted capacity to the district parents was - you won't believe this - the exact 8400 HS students. And in the newspaper leaders said the Gold freshman campuses were a better alternative and less expensive than a new HS that could become a "white elephant". I suspect all that changed when behind the scenes the leadership figured a new high school was wanted (not needed), but that new HS would not be the white elephant - WVHS would be the white elephant. I can almost see the gears turning in M2's, JS's and CB's heads - has to be in Aurora, has to be approved by southern voters, etc. etc.

...and that was just the numbers, not the other actions taken with no acknowledgement of parental concerns, other views, etc.

To those who continue to bash those confronting D204 leadership about problems, or who redirect arguments for diversionary purposes to daze/confuse the less engaged parents, I say shame on you.

Shame on the people who shouted down others asking the tough questions and raising concerns to the school board and administration at meetings during the new HS debate.

Shame on the people who tried to make certain neighborhoods appear elitist/racist when they tried to talk above geographic distance, safety issues, and transportation costs.

Shame on the people who attacked the NO voters on the YES blog (now the Proboards Blue Blog), where new registrants were dismissed as soon as "NO vote on the new HS" leanings where detected.

Shame on the leadership (SB members, administrators, community voices, etc.) who LIED about student enrollment projections, school capacities, and chose bricks & mortar over better teachers & curriculum, etc. ...some of these decisions still forthcoming due to incompetence, stubborness, elitist thinking and lack of vision to understand the long term impacts of their corrupt reasoning.

Shame on the uninformed voter who foolishly believed everything they were fed by SB, the Administration, their blinded supporters and were too busy doing important things like going on vacations, shopping, playing golf - all the time not tuned into the dupe that may cost them personally $50,000 over the next 10 years not counting the hit on real estate.

Shame on those who went after Citizens For Options (CFO) and Neighborhood Schools For Our Children (NSFOC), and other groups for pointing out exactly what is happening today - bogus numbers, high transportation costs, higher safety risks, etc. They were the lone voices in the forest of ignorance.

What to do - drawing and quartering was popular in England. Tar and feathering would be nice. Huummmm. What action to take? How about remembering for once -- all ye folk with attention spans of knats.

But please never forget this is democracy at work. And everyone had every right to say and do what they did. But sometimes, in democracy, the collective you get what you ask for, or do not ask for. Let's pray the right information gets asked for, delivered, then acted upon in the future.

And let's not forget what has been done to you, and by who. Those leaders will seek other offices, have impact on you, your children and your wallets. Be vigilant. Never forget. Make them pay for what they have done, now that reality is setting in - to those minipulators of data that means actual results.

doctorwho,

Why do you feel the need to post in this blog under so many different names. It's so easy to compare your posts here with your posts on the Pro Boards.

to WARRIOR--

i know london calling, and i know dr who-- they are not the same person... by a long stretch!

To Warrior - or WP maybe ? - beware the slippery slope on ID's - there are some who wish to remain anonymous on multiple boards and blogs ..

"Shame on the people who attacked the NO voters on the YES blog (now the Proboards Blue Blog), where new registrants were dismissed as soon as "NO vote on the new HS" leanings where detected"

If you read the blue boards today you will find most there absolutely agree with you and yes, those (like myself) who were duped absolutely feel very badly about it today and are trying to raise awareness to keep it from happening again --

To get your facts right ...

maybe you need to get your facts right..

"NV IS NOT 1/2 Empty people. The last count was OVER 4,400!!!!! The freshman campus is wall to wall kids.

Kathy Birkett is awesome, give her a fair chance."

here is the 2nd day attendance numbers from your SD admin: you can call KB and confirm.

NV*
4205 - total
1001 - 9th
1018 - 10th
1147 - 11th
1035 - 12th
4 - 13th

less 315 kids @ Frontier Campus -- that makes 3890 ( NOT 4400+) in the 2 NV buildings

So everything is a conspiracy and anyone who is having a good experience in District 204 is just stupid is that it - we have all been duped? Shame on anyone who disagrees that everything in the district is wrong and there is no good to be found? Honestly, that's a very sad statement .... but it speaks far more of those who speak it and support it than it does to those it's addressed to.

From: "Anonymous X" at 8/29 @ 3:02 pm

"The facts, however, for most TG people, were always the farther distance to WVHS than NVHS (virtually across the street - and even connected by a bridge over rt 59). That was it, plain and simple."

Really? If that premise is correct, how do you explain the many many TG families who now send their children to private schools, which are at least 3 to 4 times FURTHER than Waubonsie? For them distance is clearly NOT the issue - "plain and simple".

Also, the TG community touts the fact that they voted a majority "YES" in the first referendum when the property was located at BB meaning they supported the 3rd high school IF it was located there (they even sued the taxpapyers to try to keep it there). If it's all about "the distance" to WV and ONLY the distance, then why would they vote "yes" on the first referendum, which placed their children much further from NV?

To alloveragain on August 30, 2009 8:27 AM,

"Shame on anyone who disagrees that everything in the district is wrong and there is no good to be found? "

Did someone actually post this or is this simply your version of a straw man argument meant to dismiss any legitimate complaints?

alloveragain -- I am glad you are having a good experience in 204 - I 've been here 20 years and it was once good for me also. It's easy to stick your head in the sand when things are going well and dismiss those who got screwed over as whiners. Wait until it happens to you one day - you may be singing a different song, I know.
And although you're having a good experience you have spent $150M you did not need to- with another $20M or so referendum on it's way...maybe you have that extra cash around to have a high school we don't need but most of us do not.
--- the truly sad statement is that because it is good for you...all is well.

To Anon on August 30, 2009 11:22 AM,

That's a good question. It would seem as much of a mystery as to why a subdivision like Brookdale came out with a resounding NO vote at the booth for the third HS when it was located at BB and they were still assigned to WVHS but all of a sudden flip-flopped to a resounding "YES, we so do need it!" Support when it was announced it would be at AME site and they would be assigned to it.

But, I suppose "That's different."

To Original Joe on August 30, 2009 11:22 AM

That's a good question. It would seem as much of a mystery as to why a subdivision like Brookdale came out with a resounding NO vote at the booth for the third HS when it was located at BB and they were still assigned to WVHS but all of a sudden flip-flopped to a resounding "YES, we so do need it!" Support when it was announced it would be at AME site and they would be assigned to it.

But, I suppose "That's different."
___________________________________________________________________

I agree with you, it's not all that different at all, but then two "wrongs" never did make a right.

I was only addressing the false premise the poster made that it was "only about the distance to WV - plain and simple" for Tallgrass residents when that clearly is not the case.

Yet that same commute that was labeled so bad- now went to May Watts and yet we were supposed to shut up and take one for the team. Current checks shows bus rides @ 45 minutes one way in good weather and no student traffic and no on/off ramp yet @ Eola. Depending on where you live it is 6.5 - 8 miles to the school with 7 area high schools closer. This was a travesty as they 'designed' the high school they wanted to open..

To Anon on August 30, 2009 2:03 PM

How do you know for that particular poster that it wasn't just about distance? Is it because someone down the street may have chosen private school that it negates their opinion? Really?

Also, for some parts of the district, private school is actually closer than the public school they are assigned. Further, since when is it 'wrong' to send a kid to private school? As a taxpayer you should be happy. They are paying for the system but not adding to the enrollment or taking away from the resources. This is 'wrong' according to you?

By Original Joe on August 30, 2009 4:49 PM

"How do you know for that particular poster that it wasn't just about distance? Is it because someone down the street may have chosen private school that it negates their opinion? Really?"

Because HE generalized and stated that it was MOST TG residents. If he stated that it he was only speaking for himself, I would not have responded to the post at all.

Original Joe - as for your second comment - did that come out of left field or what? I never stated it was wrong nor insinuated it was wrong to send a kid to private school. I was merely using it as an illustration that it wasn't "all about the distance".

We have moved out of naperville and out of IL. Occasionally , i look at this blog to remind me of how grateful I am of my new home. My son had the same bus issues 4 years ago!! i called and called and it took several calls to get things corrected. Sad to think the School disrict is still having bus issues. We have never had a problem with our new school..the first day of school went as smoothly as the last day of school . the buses arrive on time , at the correct stop all the time!

To Anon on August 30, 2009 6:12 PM,

Again, we have a problem of people thinking one person speaks for an entire (or MOST of a) neighborhood. Each family who goes the private school route does so for their own reasons. What do you, myself or anyone else really care what they happen to be? Many families in the MV area opted for private high school this year. No one seems to care or question why, so why the silly case of OCD with the TG community about those that went the private school route? Unless it's your own family, it's none of any one else's business so why waste your time on it? Are you trying to 'go there' with the previously mentioned racist/elitist smear campaign that happened last year or something? I think we both know the answer to that question.

OCD?? Hardly - these are the first public comments I've ever made on this topic. Unlike you, who seems to be obsessed with not only this blog site, but other "blogs" as well - your writing style is very "distinct", shall we say.

Sue O'shea on August 30, 2009 8:40 PM
We have moved out of naperville and out of IL. Occasionally , i look at this blog to remind me of how grateful I am of my new home.

_________________

How nice of you to stop back and visit the local blog. Your comments are very helpful (not!). I can only assume you do this because your "new home" is so much better than ours here in lowly Naperville? Care to comment on where your new Utopia is? Or is it easier to just fling your arrows? Having one less of you (and apparently at least one student) in Naperville makes me grateful for my home.

By Anon on August 31, 2009 7:04 AM
OCD?? Hardly - these are the first public comments I've ever made on this topic. Unlike you, who seems to be obsessed with not only this blog site, but other "blogs" as well - your writing style is very "distinct", shall we say.
========

I make no denials about who I am. I've used this handle on here for a number of years and have been consistent in other places too with sticking to the handles used there. Come to the board meeting tonight and Say HI and introduce yourself... you can't miss me.

By Anon on August 30, 2009 11:22 AM
From: "Anonymous X" at 8/29 @ 3:02 pm

"The facts, however, for most TG people, were always the farther distance to WVHS than NVHS (virtually across the street - and even connected by a bridge over rt 59). That was it, plain and simple."
======
Really? If that premise is correct, how do you explain the many many TG families who now send their children to private schools, which are at least 3 to 4 times FURTHER than Waubonsie? For them distance is clearly NOT the issue - "plain and simple".

Also, the TG community touts the fact that they voted a majority "YES" in the first referendum when the property was located at BB meaning they supported the 3rd high school IF it was located there (they even sued the taxpapyers to try to keep it there). If it's all about "the distance" to WV and ONLY the distance, then why would they vote "yes" on the first referendum, which placed their children much further from NV?
======

Re above comment about private schools -- There are probably just as many TG people sending their kids to private school whether they would have gone to NV or WV. However, a handful may have made the decision based on WV, but I have heard of only 2 families sending their kids to private schools. One family wanted to send their superbright kid to private school because D204 has diluted the advanced learning programs (added many more kids). The other family wanted to go to WV early for sports reasons, but were denied, so the kid was sent to a private school where the same coaches could work with them all four years. Then you have the economy impact, which dampens any others ideas about private school (this may help the D204 enrollment figures). So, in conclusion, I do not see it - some occaisional whining, but no actions on private school front.

Re other comment about YES votes and distance -- YES, most TG folks supported the 3rd HS, but at BB -- BECAUSE OF THE DISTANCE -- a compromise position, even though some felt even that BB was too far, and warned not to believe all they were told. In summary, BB was closer than WV, but let's not get into comparisons on those distances - geograhy is what it is - although our district has the ability to change time and distance. I suppose some also felt the new building helped them decide. But the majority felt a new HS was needed based on the marketing effort engineered by the D204 SB, Admin., key leaders like the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, etc., and that if one was needed, then BB was close enough for those people.

The best way to find out what the voters wanted would have been to vote on the MVHS at Eola, not BB, in the 2006 referendum. The result would be a solid NO, and about $300 million in principle, interest and operating costs saved for the rainy day that is today. Perhaps WVHS would be getting some renovations as well for say $25-50 million that it will now ever see...mainly so it can be portrayed as a collapsing ediface that must be closed...thus completing the plan of from the land of dupedom...or duped-dum.

AnonX I hope that you're wrong.......but fear that you are right.

Civics: I am not sure what "process" I am doing a disservice to. If it is the process of honest and constructive debate, lord knows I see little enough of that here!

I am not as tenured thus when I see one immediately being placed into a (1 of your 4) bucket it doesn't seem that you are open to honest and constructive debate.

Doesn't meant that I can't/don't appreciate your position (whether or not I agree with it). Keep fighting the good fight.

From: "Anonymous X" at 8/29 @ 3:02 pm

That was a great response with a very rational argument regarding your area's vote on BB. It' hard to argue the premise that so many from Tallgrass voted for BB because they saw it as a decent compromise (the alternative being two VERY crowded high schools with their probable reassignment to WV, which is further away than BB). It makes sense - thanks for taking the time to explain it.

On the flip side, I think you may be minimizing the number of families who decided to go the private school route because of the boundary reassignments. At the risk of being called names like OCD by another poster here, I won't belabor this point, though (and it's pretty difficult to quantify anyway).

More power to those who can afford private schools. My kids will be going to MV (originally WV) and have no problems with either one. What I have problem with is my tax $ going to waste on kids who show up to school as a place to hang out. Kids who don't do homework or show up to class late, cuss, fight, etc. What's worse is the parents, they use the public school system as a baby sitter. Their kids (some) get free meals and supervision all day. The education part is their last priority.

This type of behavior would not last in the private schools. Maybe our SD should look to see what the private schools are doing to achieve higher test scores, attendance and most important accountability.

I was reading one of the London Calling posts and it occurred to me you 204 people have exactly the school district you want and deserve. I mean all the nonsense with residents fighting each other over school boundaries, bus stops, the third high school, taxes and costs, incompetent school superintendents (board members bidding the interests of HO Assns. and Dawn D. should challenge Senger? HA HA. Sure, lets promote incompetence out of 204 to the next level). You people with your own individual, separate, sub-division vs. sub-divison dogs in the fight so to speak have resulted in a train wreck of a school district. Good grief. Grade schoolers on a school bus for 45 minutes to and from school. I do not know how you can expect the first day or any day in that district to go smoothly. When I moved to Naperville, people at work warned me to stay out of 204, buy in the 203 side and to this day, 10 years later I thank them for that advice.

Glad I'm in 203 on September 1, 2009 11:24 AM
------------

Glad,
I wondered if they had internet access at Central - now I know. Are you on your lunch break, or was it during study hall that you found time for your little "diddy"?

BTW, what did 203 finally decide to do with Central? Build another one or spend millions to fix it up? I seem to remember some debate on the issue.

Glad I'm in 203

Dont sell yourself short, dude. You should join us in 204. From reading your post it seems like you would fit right...........

I am a somphmore at WV. NO one has heard the kids sides of the story. I am not influenced by my parents in any way i just want to tell you how things go during my day. As a NV student i woke up at seven every single day got ready and headed to school in a three minute car ride with my older brother who is a senior now at NV. i was extremely comfortable with the people and layout of the school. I have on many accasions been to the main building during school hours and over crowding was not an issue. Now i wake up at six every morning and get ready leave for my bus stop. First off my bus stop is about 1/8 of the way to nequa already from my house. Second i have to deal with several busses from NV stop and ask us if we go to WV or NV. finally after either being ten min early or ten min. late i get onto a bus with three people to a seat and a person standing in each aile. when i arrive at school either at seven twenty or seven i walk straight to my class with my head down. which takes me about six minutes to find. the stragety to the layout of my classes is reading my schedual finding out which floor its on for ex. 354 then finding the nearest stairwell and head up. sometimes it takes me to the right third floor sometimes it takes me to the wrong third floor. it is also a problem that i cant see over the massive, slow, pushing crowd of people at every corner. finally i get to lunch where six of my NV associates sit together in a huddle trying to get away from the stress of being there and not make eye contact with anyone else. to our right is gangmembers( if you truly believe there are no gang members stand up on my lunch table and throw up a gang sign lets see how long you will last) to our left are kids our age who tell us not to tell anyone we are from NV my story is im from indiana and i transferd here this year. so far at WV i have witnessed first hand several fights right after the first couple days. i continue on to my gym class where i witnessed a kid throw his backpack across the room screaming becasue someone took his ipod its a new kid everyday. i also have to deal with the majority of seniors in all of my average course classes. They say the Curriculum is the same becasue its in the same district but as a freshmen i read lord of the flies through school in a normal english class. but at WV we read that our jr. year. What i dont understand the most is why combind rival schools my first couple days i told people i was from nv and they showed me there braclet that read. I hate NV. i havnt said im from NV sence. this is just to take into consideration my side of the story.

I would not fit in 204. 1st, I like my neighbors. Not like in 204 Tall Grass where you are neighbors but not neighborly. 2nd-I moved to 203 because my kids could walk to grade school and junior high. (middle school for you 204 people) My kids could even walk to H.S. It does not exist in 204 but the neighborhood school concept is important in continuity and personalizng the government education process. We parents used to walk to the open houses too about this time of year. In 204 you simply have the bricks and mortar school edifice. You do not have the warmth and supportive parents we do because you are pitted subdivision vs. subdivision by your school board. It is designed to keep you off balance. 3rd-You have to be kidding me if you think you can make a rational argument for a 45 minute bus ride for grade schoolers in Naperville. I know farm kids in Iowa who spend 45 minutes on a school bus. But something is wrong when students who live across from a grade school in 204 are being shipped off like cargo on a truck to a school miles away. I understand the growth of your disctrict but I also have witnessed incomeptence and mismanagement of 204 to an unbelieveable degree. You just keep electing it. Mark Metzger in my opinion should have had one term and then his narrow behind should have not been voted back on the board. But you rewarded what I believe to be his incompetence with re-election and now have what you voted for. Lawsuits and a large number of malcontented people. 4th-We are rennovating Central and getting the benefit of a land swap with the Park District wherein once again, 204 gets the shaft while 203 benefits. (I do agree the 204 Naperville Park District taxpayers are getting shafted in the West St. corridor redevelopment but getting the shaft is something you all are used to) So enjoy! I remain glad I'm in 203. (Dude, did I mention 1.5% less of a tax rate too?)

Glad I'm in 203 on September 1, 2009 9:27 PM
____________

Wow Glad. After reading your screed I would say that most of us in 204 are glad you are in D203 as well. I do believe that most of what you wrote is fiction, but hey this is an anonymous site and anyone with a computer can contribute.

It's great that you are renovating Central. some fresh paint on the walls and new linoleum on the floors will really clean it up.

Glad I'm in 203:

I realize it's easier to throw stones from far away but before you continue your rants perhaps you should check your facts. 1. I like all of my neighbors and get along quite well with them. We live in Knoch Knolls, not Tall Grass but I'm sure there are many subdivisions where the neighbors get along well. I'm sure in Tall Grass there are many neighbors that get along well. 2. My child walks to school everyday, and guess what? I walk with other parents at this time of year, too. Hmmm...guess it isn't just parents in 203 that have figured out how to walk together. 3. Although my child's school was originally designated a "walking school" they have implemented buses for children who live 1 mile away. None of the children are on the bus for 45 minutes and there have been no issues at our grade school beyond the first day. I do, however, agree with you about Mark Metzger and although he has not been up for reelection since I moved to Naperville I truly hope people here do not reelect him. 4. I have several friends in 203 and they are very happy with their schools, which is great. I am happy with my Kindergartener's school as well. I think the important thing is that our children are happy and receiving a decent education instead of gloating over who pays a slightly higher tax rate.

It's pathetic to me that people such as yourself perpetuate the "war" between two districts. I'm not sure of your age but I think the days of fighting that "I'm better than you" should have been left at the playground by about age six. Although your points make you sound six I'm guessing you are way older than that. Perhaps before generalizing about people whom you don't know you might want to take a step back and get a few things straight.

Glad

I'm serious....you would be perfect down here.

Instead of pointing out how much better, warmer, and more neighborly people are in 203 vs 204, you could talk about how much better they are in your subdivision vs some other subdivision.

Instead of pointing out how much cleverer you are because your district has a lower tax rate, you could talk about how you pay fewer taxes because the houses in your subdivision are not as expensive as those in another where they build bigger ones.

Instead of telling people they got what they deserve for living in 204 instead of 203, you could tell them they deserve to be sent to another high school farther away for choosing to live in the "wrong" neighborhood.

Given the attitudes you have displayed in your posts, you could easily be mistaken for someone who posts on these boards and already lives in 204. You fit right in.

There is no 203 vs. 204 war. I am not the problem and I'm not gloating. I merely consider myself fortunate I'm in 203 which by the way does have a degree of issues and problems to contend with too. Someone above commented their child was on a bus ride for 45 minutes to their school. If that is true, I find it amazing anyone would sit still for that. May I remind you there have also been other problems in 204 with buses (drivers kicking kids off the bus, exposure are some that come to mind) The blog title is about problems in 204...again. Problems in 204 is a recurrent theme in the press in Naperville every year. Interesting how no problems are reported in 203 on the first day. There seems to be a civil war in 204. You see it was one subdivision who sued 204 over the placement of the questionably needed 3rd H.S. Tall Grass vs. White Eagle and others. I did not throw stones. You 204 people were tossing them at each other. Stealing signs from peoples yards, filing election complaints, a few acts of vandalism if for example you had a "NO" sign in your yard. Failing to deal with students facing criminal charges by dumping them in our school. Remember the divison on that? And MM is not the only problem board member. You have a lot of people who are incompetent to be deciding how to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of YOUR money in my view. And a slightly higher tax rate? Get ready to may more. In 2010 you are going to hear about the need for more money-I hear an addl $20mil budget increase bantered here. Maybe you consider that a small increase too? And you are correct, my comments come from what I read in various sources. You cannot rely on the official SD site for truthful information. The truth is always something you find out when it becomes reality.

As others have said, "glad i'm in 203", you would fit nicely in 204, but we don't need anymore of your ilk because we have plenty here already. You act like you know more than you do, but unless you lived in one of those neighborhoods you are targeting, like Tall Grass, then you have no place making generalizing comments about how the neighbors get along. It almost feels like you cannot sell your house in 203, and keep losing out to Tall Grass where home transactions are moving again. The area is new, attractive and still less expensive than similar homes in 203.

The other comment about Tall Grass suing White Eagle and others is flat out wrong. A group of people from many nighborhoods were unhappy with the "bait and switch" around the new HS in 204 and sued the district - that's it. These things happen all the time in America, and if your 203 district plowed ahead with a new HS, a lawsuit may have been filed there too.

Don't waste your time on D204 bashing, unless you have ulterior motives related to real estate issues. If it's real estate, then I suppose you are desparate. That TG development is still kicking our butts as far as a great place to live for the money. And you can thank the D204 SB for some of the value created for buyers.

Glad your in 203: I act like I know more than I do? Are you kidding? Go into blog archieves. It is all there for you to read. I simply make statements based upon the history of various issues and prior topics. But at least you were honest in admitting that you have plenty of my ilk there already. You do. And I do not know how it would have turned out if we built the Suzyn Price Memorial High School instead of refurbishment of Central. Maybe we would have been tossing suits around too. I would like to think not. But your comment you can thank the SD204 SB for some of the value created for buyers is most amusing. Who should I thank? JC, The Brookdale Big Mouth? An under educated woman you saw fit to and continuously voted for term after term after term? She who in part is responsible for a good deal of contention? Brilliant.

I'm wondering if Sophmore from WV is really a sophmore from WV. I feel very sad for you, if indeed you are real. However your spelling or perhaps they are Typo's are numerous and I wonder if you really are from a 204 school. I think you are a HOAX!

Kim,

Maybe you should do as WV sophmore suggested if you don't believe them: go to WV and flash a gang sign at lunch and see how that goes.

BTW, have you ever noticed the sign on Eola warning of increased fines for drug and gang activity? There is not one of these signs on 95th St. near NV.

Regarding the writing style, I think kids type this way from too much texting.

Good luck to WV sophmore and all the sophmores that were uprooted to attend their biggest rival. Whose idea was that?! Not grandfathering siblings was another cruel slap at families in that situation. The district needs to realize the position they have put these students and families in. But the problem is that the district doesn't care. These kids were chessmen on the chessboard to them. Means to an end, if you will.

kim at 10:53:

I agree; I truly HOPE that "sophmore at WV" is a hoax. I can look past some of the bizarre punctuation -- many people use different rules when writing for the web vs. writing for the printed page -- but the tortured grammar, the horrific spelling and the outright inability to chart a coherent sentence are all worrisome. If that is the prime example of an education from NV, then 204 is in more trouble than I thought!

Kim,

The bad spelling and bad grammar actually made me believe it probably was a 204 student.

As an aside, get ready 204... the School Board wants to hire the same Survey Firm from 2005 that helped them pit neighborhood against neighborhood to call 400 carefully selected individuals in the community to speak for all of you in an attempt to play the latest mind game to scare you into passing the next referendum.

This is the same firm that told them if they threatened the public with Split Shifts that the voters would approve a new high school to solve a 600 seat deficit problem for a total cost of over $210 million dollars in principle and interest.

Don't say you haven't been warned.

Excerpts they recently removed from their site:

"His survey research techniques provide highly accurate, predictive data. The quality of the surveys he has conducted for referenda, candidates and issues is built on his detailed knowledge of how the information from such a survey will be used, whether it is used in order to win a two-thirds election or as part of a good decision making procedure. The results have been used to help build projects ranging from classrooms and libraries to local streets, roads and drains. ..."

"Or it offers Machiavellian tips on how to manipulate voters. It all depends on who's doing the reading -- parents and educators or taxpayer associations, who recoil at the very notion of professionally run school financing campaigns. . . ."

Read for yourself: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.communityopinion.com

Go ahead and flash a gang sign during lunch at NV --- I'm sure you'll get the same treatment at ANY public high school.

By clarissa on September 3, 2009 7:22 AM
Kim,

Maybe you should do as WV sophmore suggested if you don't believe them: go to WV and flash a gang sign at lunch and see how that goes.

BTW, have you ever noticed the sign on Eola warning of increased fines for drug and gang activity? There is not one of these signs on 95th St. near NV.
---
Earth to Clarissa,

Gangs are a major problem in Naperville, Aurora, Bolingbrook...including MVHS. Aurora city has chosen to post signs whereas Naperville has not chose to put signs out. Just what is your goal here? Trying to bring down a school (WV) that is now set to be the top academic school in the area? All these cities are doing everything in their power to manage the situation, just one may handle it differently than another. Lack of a sign on 95th street does not make NVHS gang free.

By Original Joe on September 3, 2009 10:16 AM
Kim,

As an aside, get ready 204... the School Board wants to hire the same Survey Firm from 2005 that helped them pit neighborhood against neighborhood to call 400 carefully selected individuals in the community to speak for all of you in an attempt to play the latest mind game to scare you into passing the next referendum. This is the same firm that told them if they threatened the public with Split Shifts that the voters would approve a new high school to solve a 600 seat deficit problem for a total cost of over $210 million dollars in principle and interest. Don't say you haven't been warned.

Excerpts they recently removed from their site: "His survey research techniques provide highly accurate, predictive data. The quality of the surveys he has conducted for referenda, candidates and issues is built on his detailed knowledge of how the information from such a survey will be used, whether it is used in order to win a two-thirds election or as part of a good decision making procedure. The results have been used to help build projects ranging from classrooms and libraries to local streets, roads and drains. ..."

"Or it offers Machiavellian tips on how to manipulate voters. It all depends on who's doing the reading -- parents and educators or taxpayer associations, who recoil at the very notion of professionally run school financing campaigns. . . ."

Read for yourself: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.communityopinion.com
----

Now this is REAL NEWS. Not only have the district 204 people been completely duped into building a "white elephant" high school (well, a green elephant really, in that the ultimate result will be the closing of WVHS in a few years - the school so valiantly defended by parents/students who really wanted a new school up north next to their homes -- you know...just like those "evil" "elitist" NVHS neighbors right?), .....but the D204 leaders actually have the arrogance to do an encore presentation.

MVHS will cost not $200 million, but over $300 million when you count duplicated operating and admin costs over 10-20 years (hey, pick the numbers - $10 million per year for 10 years, or $5 million for 20 years added to the $200 million in principle and interest mentioned above). It makes me sick to think such wealth all tied up in facilities, not educational excellence. I wonder who really benefitted from all those contracts let by the district leaders - in terms of payback (jobs, cash, etc.) - you know, like the Chicago/Illinois Pay-to-Play Plan... or in this case, the Dupe-to-Loot lay-away plan.

The D204 taxpayers SHOULD vote down any referendum presented, on the basis of the many lies proven by actual numbers today. Why? Because you cannot believe a single word D204 leaders tell you. How are we to know this is not another multi-million dollar dupe engineered by the same marketing program developed using the same polling that determined our hot buttons - later pushed as needed to get the YES votes?

We cannot determine the truth, so save yourself the trouble of trying to FOIA the answers out of the district. Just make a pact to not vote for any additional taxes - stop the bleeding now! VOTE 'NO' ON ANY REFERENDA (no matter the content) - the only way to be safe and control the spending in D204.

Original Joe on September 3, 2009 10:16 AM

The bad spelling and bad grammar actually made me believe it probably was a 204 student.

______________

Joe, does this mean you believe the D204 problems include both the 3rd high school issue as well as poor education? Was your comment that the WV Student, "Probably was a 204 student", an indictment of the poor education this supposed high school sophomore has received?

I believe that regardless of your stance on the 3rd high school, the education in D204 is excellent and has been preparing students for the future. No?

To Anonymous ONE on September 3, 2009 2:20 PM,

When a HS student in Honors English does not understand what a gerund is or the implied 'you' in writing styles (real specific examples that happen in the district) I'd say it's indicative of the curriculum.

Ask any private school admissions office in the area about how 'strong' 204 students are in grammar and the English subject as a whole. They'll tell you this is a recurring problem they're well used to seeing.

Who are you,

The defensiveness about WV speaks volumes. Not trying to "bring WV down". But truth is, there is a difference in the climate and culture of WV vs. NV. Anytime someone mentions that, people go nuts. But they are very different. And it sure seems to me that WV has bigger and more problems. I can understand the apprehension that some feel. And I don't understand the effort by some to muzzle any discussion about it.

I'm sure there is a certain degree of crime everywhere - take Hinsdale for instance - I doubt it is 100% crime free. But that doesn't mean that Hinsdale is the equivalent of say Englewood. I'm not comparing WV and NV to Hinsdale and Englewood. But I'm pointing out that to say there are problems everywhere is not an adequate explanation.

Clarissa,

I think the apprehension people feel is related to the conclusions that are drawn whenever that type of discussion comes up.

Lets say that there are more 'problems' at one school vs another. Or that the climate and culture is different at one school vs another.

First, I havent heard any quantification of the level of problems or the negative impacts of a difference in the culture. The information presented here is always anecdotal and subject to bias and misrepresentation. So while many might be willing to accept it as having some degree of truth, they have a problem moving from 'this school has more kids with problems' to 'this school is gang and drug infested.'

Second, people on these boards seem to want to jump from 'this school has more kids with problems' to 'my child cannot get a good education at this school.' I cannot quote the statistics line for line, but what I have seen would say otherwise. Total average test scores may be lower. But I dont think you can jump to the conclusion that it is because the educational opportunities are inferior. I think you would find it is because the distribution of scores is different.....more kids scoring lower as opposed to fewer kids scoring higher if you know what I mean. So if your kid is going to score high at NV, they will be just as likely to score high at WV.

So the reason people dont want to admit to actual differences between the two schools probably has to do with the unsupported, biased and illogical conlusions which people jump to once that acknowledgement is made.

to: mark

WV student was posting to a blog, not writing a graded essay. I applaud him for making an effort to let someone know what his experience is like. I'm sure he didn't walki into school that first day expecting ANY of the negative that he received, and didn't ask for, and didn't deserve. Hope he'll find the support he needs - at home, with friends. Won't get it from the district. Won't get by not speaking up. This is his way of getting you to acknowledge there ARE problems.

To: Original Joe on September 3, 2009 2:47 PM

Thanks, I'll admit I had to look up gerund myself. I was hoping your initial response was just reactionary, but it sounds like 204 has curriculum issues as well.

while I don't always agree that public and private school comparisons are accurate, there is merit in what the private school administrators have said.

Interesting opinion piece in todays WSJ. It is about overscheduled kids, but includes the following line:

In a world in which only 23% of ACT-takers show scores that indicate "college readiness" in math, English, reading and science,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360771531703210.html

Civics, thank you for the thoughtful response and I agree with much of what you said.

Keep in mind that sophmores who moved from NV to WV (and their families) will have the perspective of having seen first hand both schools. In addition, families with kids at both schools (freshman and sophmores with upper classmen grandfathered) will also be in a position to make direct comparisons.

Anyone commenting on those differences or expressing concerns shouldn't be thought of as trying to "bring down" a school. The situation is what it is. There are probably positive and negative differences.

To Anonymous ONE on September 4, 2009 10:42 AM,

I've come to the conclusion over the years that in the public school systems they have things pushed onto them outside of their control (No Child Left Behind, as an example) that they have to deal with, test for, get kids up to snuff on and this over time has caused more and more things to get pushed out of the classroom because there are only so many school days in the year and a finite number of minutes per day to instruct. (Sorry for the run-on sentence :>)

If you have something thrown in (AKA Mandated) that takes N number of hours to deal with in the school year that means that N number of hours of instruction for other things will drop on the floor and fall away. It just is what it is. Private schools don't necessarily have to deal with everything a public school has to and can keep those N number of hours in the classroom teaching what fell on the floor in the public sector.

My fear is that in the years to come more and more things will fall on the floor as more emphasis is put on test scores. While they can be a good way to measure progress, they come at a cost; explained above.

All you people trying to distract the voters -- put a lid on it already. WVHS had some issues, but is a great school today, will be greater in 2 years, and closed within 5 years -- when it reaches the status of "Too Many Cildren Too Far Ahead" -- then it will be closed partly for that reason. NVHS and MVHS then sagging "No Child Left Behind" ratings can then be propped up my the next Tall Grass/White Eagle developments with a fresh supply of brains, money, boosterism and volunteerism. Let's move on to the main event - something that all taxpayers better wake up and see below notes from Original Joe and Dr. Y who make a lot of sense:
======
By Original Joe on September 3, 2009 10:16 AM
As an aside, get ready 204... the School Board wants to hire the same Survey Firm from 2005 that helped them pit neighborhood against neighborhood to call 400 carefully selected individuals in the community to speak for all of you in an attempt to play the latest mind game to scare you into passing the next referendum. This is the same firm that told them if they threatened the public with Split Shifts that the voters would approve a new high school to solve a 600 seat deficit problem for a total cost of over $210 million dollars in principle and interest. Don't say you haven't been warned.
======
By Dr. Y? on September 3, 2009 12:53 PM
We cannot determine the truth, so save yourself the trouble of trying to FOIA the answers out of the district. Just make a pact to not vote for any additional taxes - stop the bleeding now! VOTE 'NO' ON ANY REFERENDA (no matter the content) - the only way to be safe and control the spending in D204.
======
Original Joe and Y,
Say it ain't so! Hiring the same firm to survey our deepest fears and desires, then used to mold us into YES voters on a new tax increase? I am having deja vu feelings...that can only be described as one or - God help me - all of the following?!#@*&^>:

1)a personal "Groundhog Day"

2)a magnetic vortex

3)getting too close to a black hole, bending us back in time!

The scary thing about this is:

-- that even though: a)parents and taxpayers went off the rails (ooops...probably should not say that), b) lawsuits were filed, and c) the leaders, and their supporters(now also naive SB members thanks to you wise voters), are proven liars (with the actual results/numbers in and an additional slap around the whole busing coverup of ballooning transportation costs)

-- these leaders actually consider the wasting of $200-300 million rammed through the public deceptively, as a successful project.

So why not hire the same pollers to do the same thing again, find out our fears/anxieties to be worked on in the media, handbills, notes from school in backpacks, etc., so millions more $$$ can be raked from the taxpayers' pocket books.

How bold. However, I fear we taxpayers CAN be fooled again. How sad.

So voting down anything presented, seems to be the only protection we taxpayers have.

I can only wonder how much space has been given in our local paper to the thousands of success stories in the 204 district.

Every year school systems have bus scheduling problems... Big deal... these problems are fixed quickly.

80% of the LTE are negative in nature, someone always has to belly ache about something. It is just a shame that the paper has to report and "heighten the hysteria". The first week was indeed a pain in the a_s, I drove my student for a couple of days. "Low and behold" a week later and all is fine.

How about the Sun get to some real "nuts and bolts" reporting and focus on the success stories in our district. There are literally 10's of thousands of them.

I will start. As usual I was impressed with my student's teachers this year as I have always been for the last 11 years here in Naperville. This town is a great place to live and this district is a great place to have one's children educated in. Perfect no.. but damn close to it!

TO ..By Just a regular guy from Napertucky @ glad to be here!! on September 5, 2009 10:18 PM
I can only wonder how much space has been given in our local paper to the thousands of success stories in the 204 district.

Every year school systems have bus scheduling problems... Big deal... these problems are fixed quickly...

--------------------------
do you think it's fine that students are sitting 3 to a seat, and some are standing??? seems unsafe to me.

could we get a count from our posters here on how many busses have too many kids on them??

can you name your bus route also? NV-, WV-, MV- and so on...

thanks!

To:By Anon2 on September 7, 2009 3:03 PM
do you think it's fine that students are sitting 3 to a seat, and some are standing??? seems unsafe to me.

could we get a count from our posters here on how many busses have too many kids on them??

can you name your bus route also? NV-, WV-, MV- and so on...

thanks!

_________________________________________________________

Anon2 I do not think it is a great idea to have 3 teenagers to a seat, and if it went on a month into the school year I would be concerned.
Count how many posters(complaining about anything and everything) come on now, there are posters here under different names "whining about the same old things".

I think stressing all the good our district does should be on the agenda, of course one has to wonder how many papers will be sold.

By Just a regular guy from Napertucky @ glad to be here!! on September 5, 2009 10:18 PM I can only wonder how much space has been given in our local paper to the thousands of success stories in the 204 district. How about the Sun get to some real "nuts and bolts" reporting and focus on the success stories in our district. There are literally 10's of thousands of them.
I will start. As usual I was impressed with my student's teachers this year as I have always been for the last 11 years here in Naperville. This town is a great place to live and this district is a great place to have one's children educated in. Perfect no.. but damn close to it!
===========
Dear Just a regular guy,

Were you in an accident or something, because it seems like you were in a coma for the past 4 years given your lack of understanding regarding what the taxpayers have been put through.

After all the deceptions, coverups and lies in D204 (as goes on in many other districts, but usually does not come with a $200 million to $300 million price tag), I am starting to reach the conclusion that with nearly $300 million annual spending budgets, a district can afford to make lots of mistakes, make poor decisions, act vindictively, overpay people and generally feel superior to other districts, and its own taxpayers/parents, etc.

You know, I am now believing that when you start with smart kids and engaged parents, you can do pretty well as a district. To screw anything up, you really have to work hard at it, or perhaps, still be running the district like it's a farming community.

I think the students are doing great and their teachers are generally excellent, but let's not get carried away with the district administration being this grand architect of our students' success.

It's the students who want to succeed, great parents who set the standards for their kids, and highly paid teachers who are attracted to the district because of the money (more than other districts especially when you include the pension and medical benefits) and the good students (less headaches than other districts).

Hell, you could be the next superintendent since you are so numb to reality - a qualification in this district apparently met once again with Kathy Birkett.

To Be My opinion ". None of the children are on the bus for 45 minutes and there have been no issues at our grade school beyond the first day"

WRONG -- there are subdivisions in May Watts that are a 45 minute bus ride to MV ( and 30 to Hill MS) and that is exactly what it is taking, and fwiw, what we were told it would be. The 30 minute ride from Watts is not from the main area ( even with less bus stops to try and hide that fact) -it is from the far NW edge. So please have your facts before you throw stones at the prson from 203.

And although I might not be a fan of the way the facts are presented - ( and I think Glad to be in 203 has aa wrong opinion of TG overall)- they have facts on their side.

1/ they have significantly better test scores and demographics at their top school especially not all that different 2/ their board chose to save money on their HS changes- not waste $150M for an unneeded school 3/ no members of their school board have embarassed their district as ours have 4/ they do all of this with a lower tax rate and just wait until the next referendum comes to add even more to that

while it may comes across as nyah nyah to some- I see it as facts, plain and simple.

Regular Guy, For the sake of your children, wake up! Look beyond the fancy buildings at what really goes on this district. I used to think things were great. But after paying attention for the last 8 years or so, I've come to the conclusion that there are big problems in District 204.

The more people stick their heads in the sand, the more money the district will syphon out of us - and for what?! The parents and taxpayers of this district need to pay close attention so that we can demand accountability from the district where it is clearly lacking.

I don't see that it does any good to buy the elementary PTA hype that things are perfect! Yippee!

Dig a little deeper. Watch for the "survey". It's designed to manipulate the voters into passing the next referendum. Yes, in spite of the fact that we just spent $150 million or something like that, they need MORE money. Much more than they told us they would need. So they need to figure out how to confuse us and scare us enough to vote for it. One way the district manipulates us is by dividing the community. They are very good at that. It's time we all became more engaged and worked together. Don't fall for their spin again.

To: London Calling

I am sorry that you feel that way and thank you for being concerned about my health. Though I have been involved in several accidents in my life, none so severe to be in a coma for 4 years. I must admit that my children sometimes comment that I live in a different world.

I do agree that our district has great teachers, parents and students. This indeed is a great help in keeping our district strong. I guess I have a bit more latitude with regard to our administration.

Your comment about our new supt. is not appreciated nor is it true. Have a great day.

I look forward to seeing Tina and London Calling running for the School Board in 2011, if they really want to effect change and not just whine on blogs.

I'll take a guess and say that the next scare tactics to get referendum buy in will be either a/large class sizes [not acceptable in D204] and/or b/program cuts in our near and dear athletic and fine arts programs. Mark this date down. Remember, everyone thought the 3rd high school would create smaller classes [did not] AND increase the opportunity for the children to earn spots in sports and other extra curricular activities.

Ken

Dont forget Dr Y?.

Or Arch from the Proboards.

As for Tina - her kids are off to private school. So by her own admission you wont see her participating positively in 204. She will instead spend her time trying to convince others not to vote for any new referendums since she will see none of the benefit.

One thing I think these folks have in common is a desperate desire not to pay any more in property tax. Of course nobody wants to pay more taxes. But for some that desire overides all else. For me, if it comes down to a choice between spending too much on the schools or spending too little, I will err on spending too much.

If an Operating Referendum gets defeated, then the possibility of a full public audit of D204's finances might be on the very near horizon. Have they ever had one in the past?

By tina on September 8, 2009 8:30 AM

Regular Guy, For the sake of your children, wake up! Look beyond the fancy buildings at what really goes on this district. I used to think things were great. But after paying attention for the last 8 years or so, I've come to the conclusion that there are big problems in District 204.

The more people stick their heads in the sand, the more money the district will syphon out of us - and for what?! The parents and taxpayers of this district need to pay close attention so that we can demand accountability from the district where it is clearly lacking.

I don't see that it does any good to buy the elementary PTA hype that things are perfect! Yippee!

Dig a little deeper. Watch for the "survey". It's designed to manipulate the voters into passing the next referendum. Yes, in spite of the fact that we just spent $150 million or something like that, they need MORE money. Much more than they told us they would need. So they need to figure out how to confuse us and scare us enough to vote for it. One way the district manipulates us is by dividing the community. They are very good at that. It's time we all became more engaged and worked together. Don't fall for their spin again.
___________________________________________________________________-

Dear Tina I am sorry you have such strong negative feelings towards the school district that has been very beneficial to our family. I do not know what is going on at the elementary level as I only have one left in the 204 school district. Our family has been most impressed with the education all our children have received in district. Our college bound students were well prepared once entering college. At the high school level our students received college credit towards their Freshman college coursework. In "Dollars and Sense" all told our district has been instrumental in saving our family over $35,000 in credited coursework and college grants.

Tina I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of our district on almost all levels. For our family living in this district has been a very positive experience. I can only hope the same holds true for you and yours in the future.

To Napertucky,

If your final kid is about to exit the system, then you certainly are not aware of the changes that have gone on since they left the early and middle levels of the system. My eldest is in college now and youngest in elementary with at least one in between. There are huge differences with each kid at the same spot over the years. I do agree with you as my eldest was more than prepared for college this fall due to what he got going through the system. The ones to follow in the footsteps have not been nearly as challenged. In fact, it is as if the expectations have come down each year as well as the required workloads. It's pretty sad to witness and I am not quite sure what is driving it. A couple of years ago we started supplementing outside of the system just to ensure preparation for college.

To Civics,

This proboard: http://ipsd204.proboards.com/index.cgi? ?

From what I understand multiple people participating there on a regular basis have thrown their hat into the School Board ring in the past.

By Civics on September 8, 2009 4:27 PM
Ken

Dont forget Dr Y?.

Or Arch from the Proboards.

One thing I think these folks have in common is a desperate desire not to pay any more in property tax. Of course nobody wants to pay more taxes. But for some that desire overides all else. For me, if it comes down to a choice between spending too much on the schools or spending too little, I will err on spending too much.
-----

Ken, you would what on the side of spending too much? Letting you know now - that you have already errored big time on the side of spending too much. In fact, if you now error on the side of spending too little for the next 20 years, then you will in balance still be erroring on the side of spending too much. Get it?

greetings from London.

Correction - My last note - replace Ken with Civics...though I suspect he shares the same views as Civics on wasting money..."for the children".

London, you're so clever with your use of words. You won't find anyone in the district who is advocating wasting money.

To Civics and Ken

yeah we're all whiners aren't we. I was a candidate to replace Bruce Rodman for SB as were 23 others. I busted my proverbial backside for 3 years every single day on the original referendum ( and those in power know this to be true), only to find out I was misled about a great many things; from HS population numbers and split shifts ( school need) to eventually placement ( although by that time it should have been stopped anyway. At least 6-7 other whiners (posters) I know ran for the SB during one of the recent elections- and some 'whiners' my even be former members - what a kick in the head eh?. Nice try to bundle us all up however as some cyber criers.
I was driven out of this district by decption and the worst commute in the district to an incomplete school which again were told would never happen -- so yeah, I am now like Tina - my child is in private school- and I also will work to not give this group one more darn nickle to blow. They have proven fiscal responsibility is not in their plan by wasting away millions and millions on expediting a school they no longer even needed - let alone needed this year. Why not show the district what has REALLY been spent on this school and the $200M+ it really will cost us due to creative accounting? Would you give more money to a drunken sailor on a binge ? What guarantee do you have that the money people might approve will be spent on what the referedum may refer to - it better be very damn specific as shown already - they can do what they want once the money is in their hands

So civics - you're right...the group working against the next referendum grows daily..and no one to blame but the admin and SB -- deal with it. In case you haven't noticed the economy is in the tank - great time to waste money. So combine ticked off people ( more so when they know what we really spent), seniors who can't afford it, regular people who can't afford it etc will be there waiting for the latest scare tactics when they come out - you're absolutely right

When an almsot entirely new group is in place ( and not just elected buddies) - I will then reconsider supporting 204 - not until.

London Calling

"Err" is a verb.
"Error" is a noun.
My usage was correct and yours was not.

Also, I said "spend." You said "waste." In this case, the difference between the two is a matter of one's perspective on the issues.

Ken,

Still have kids in the district. Only youngest will go private school route. And the reasons are academic. I'm tired of teaching my kids what the schools don't. The reason the kids have the successes they do is because the kids and the parents work so hard to ensure that. Then the district crows about it. Yes, there are some really amazing teachers, but there are curriculum shortfalls and some teachers who don't teach - they facilitate. So in order for the kids to be prepared, they have to teach themselves or the parents do.

And why is it that for all this money our scores are below 203's?

So even with kids in system, I will definitely vote NO on the coming referendum. We have given this district way too much money. And that investment seems to be in bricks and astro turf.

What was it our potty mouthed former SB president said the district would need for the operating referendum? Does anyone have that number?

Because what they will actually ask for will be WAY greater. And they will try to muddy the water to hide that fact by attaching other things to it or scaring the public.

They have grossly overspent on a high school we didn't need.

I don't know whether it is more appropriate to have the people on this blog to meet at high noon at the OK corral or at the south lawn after a heavy rain for a mud wrestling competition.

To anonymous on September 9, 2009 10:11 AM,

I would guess that the biggest E-Thugs on here don't really want to put their real face forward because they are too worried about their behavior reflecting badly on their position at work or church. I know first hand they certainly were not present at the last school board meeting and never bother to even sign up for public comment because they somehow think they actually are anonymous on the internet in this day and age.

Good school districts don’t just 'happen' by accident. They are created because a district full of citizens believes that excellent schools are a valuable thing to have. And those citizens are willing to pay out of their pocket to see that they have them. Outsiders, people moving to the area, see what kind of a district has been created and decide that that the values that created it are also their values. They decide to move into that district -- knowing that they have agreed pay for good schools through their property taxes.

Where I think that gets the district as a whole is the same place I find myself. That is -- willing to err on the side of spending too much rather than risk spending too little.

Of course that view is tempered with the realities of owning, paying for, and some day selling a home. Few people's checkbooks are unlimited. Waste and 'gold plating' are not welcome. But it quickly gets difficult because one person's version of gold plating does not match another's view. Example: My kid swims competitively but is not in music. So for me a pool might not be gold plating, but a state-of-the-art practice and performance center might be.

Part of the problem for those who are chronically unhappy with the district no matter the topic, may be that they do not recognize the kind of people who populate district in which they live. I think the population of 204 tends to be people who habitually think FIRST about the value of the education their kids receive and SECOND about what it will cost. Which is not to say they will spend in an unlimited way, or that they will always vote YES to new levys. But it does say that if you give a good reason why new spending or a tax increase is required, you will get a fair hearing from them, and they will probably start out favorably disposed to your position.

For people who do not share those values, it might appear as though most people in the district are 'putting their heads in the sand' or 'not in touch with reality' about the district. Because they feel forever frustrated, they 'stir the pot.' They make accusations. They shout about incompetence, nepotism, greed, dishonesty and more. The shame is that, since they shout and scream about things that the voters decided years ago, they drown out their own voices. Valid concerns may not get heard. Things that might be worth considering as a way to save money don’t get discussed because they get swept up in their own storm of negativity.

Metea is built and operating. What is the benefit of endlessly discussing if it should have ever been built? If it is to learn lessons from past mistakes, can't we do that without name-calling and hysterics? And wouldn’t it be valuable to spend at least as much time discussing how we optimize its use now and in the future?

Buses are taking kids from their homes to their schools. Why do we need a tired and seemingly endless re-hashing of the dangers and costs of it? Shouldn’t we discuss how we fix whatever routing or crowding problems still exist? Or have a discussion about how to minimize the amount of busing we do today and still achieve the objective of creating a good learning environment for the maximum number of students?

Why present as a threat or dark plot whether the board will recommend another operating levy? If there is going to be one, I want to know when and for how much. I want a dialog and an honest discussion of options. What are the options to legitimately consider which will avoid the need for one altogether? Or at least minimize the size?

Many of you are your own worst enemy. You fault the board for scare mongering and threatening. Then you accuse and threaten. You claim the board lies and exagerates. Then you do the same thing to support your own view. You show no reason or moderation or willingness to listen. You get labeled because you make yourselves easy to label.

Civics,

Where are these new good paying jobs coming from that are attracting people to the area and keeping them here? Have you looked at the dried up credit market that fueled the growth here in the first place? More and more businesses are going under and still downsizing to stay alive. People's tappable lines of credit are all but dried up. It doesn't matter how good one is told the schools are if one can not afford to live in their home not only because of the pinching felt month to month on the normal bills but also the increase in property taxes another referendum would bring people.

It would be considered dumb financial practice to just go open up another credit card and run up the balance just to keep living the same lifestyle when one clearly can not afford it. It has nothing to do with not valuing education; it has to do with financial survivability of the district and its citizens. When their backs are broken, so is the precious school system. There is an excess of brick and mortar glut in this district. Consolidation has to start happening. Look at the elementary school level and in a few years, the HS level as well. With some building closures and costs savings, those excluded from the brand new high school this go around will finally get their rightful opportunity to attend it. A shot down referendum would force the issue to clean up the finances and optimize the resources sooner rather than later; while there's still time.

Illinois has a habit of building high schools it doesn't need, only to have them be shut down. I read somewhere a while back over 1200 such occurrences have happened in this state. Don't think D204 will defy the odds forever.

Original Joe

We are headed into a budget cycle at IPSD. There will be hearings. There will be public input. Tell us where you would recommend changes in the budget to the school board.

To Anonymous on September 9, 2009 2:02 PM,

I've given public comment multiple times in the past and spoken to people in the Administration about where I recommend budget and spending changes. I'm already on the public record.

Are you?

original joe

did u used to post here under your real name?

Civics,

I originally posted as Joe, then someone else started to use that also and I switched to Original Joe.
All of my LTE's ad public comments have been under my real name.

Civics,

Just curious, why do you feel the need to label people who don't agree with you? Does it somehow justify your position to relegate people because they take issue with the District Board and Administration? Who cares how they deliver their message, it is the content and the validity that are relevant.

Personally I haven't read a single thing espoused by Original Joe, or many others who raise issues about our District, that isn't a legitimate criticism.

When you make blanket statements like, "Part of the problem for those who are chronically unhappy with the district no matter the topic, may be that they do not recognize the kind of people who populate district in which they live," what is your point? Who are you talking about? Who is chronically unhappy with the District (which also confuses me, as the District is a legal entity, not a person)? How would you know even if they were "chronically...."?

You follow that statement with another supposition, "I think the population of 204 tends to be...". How do you know? There are around 59,000 households in the District. I can't even speak for the neighbors a few doors down.

You continue, "For people who do not share those values, it might appear as though most people in the district are 'putting their heads in the sand'...," and another, "They shout about incompetence (how do you do that in text?)...since they shout and scream (ditto) about things that the voters decided years ago...".

In fact, you are doing no more than people like Original Joe or anyone else, you are expressing an opinion. In the worst case, you are whining about people raising issues (or whining about people 'whining' about the District). In short, your diatribe is full of liberties in accurately describing those making comments here.

The reason to raise and discuss issues is to raise awareness and to constantly remind people who haven't been paying that there is a different perspective out there; to point out facts that others may want to conveniently ignore and forget.

Finally you presume that those with a different perspective aren't also constructive in trying to make District 204 a better place. Perhaps it might do you some good to step back and see if there is any validity to what others have to say.

Reality Check

Thanks for the response. These are my thoughts on your comments.

First, my entire post is my opinion. I dont shy away from that. I never state or even implied that it was factual in any way. Actually I go out of my way to repeatedly state "I think" or "It may be" etc.

Second, the way something is communicated most definitely has an enormous impact on how effective the communication is in achieving the desired result. If you do not agree..well..I guess you dont agree.

Third, I am clearly whining about the way in which some people present their ideas. I AM guilty of that. I dont agree with the many of the opinions on the boards. But I absolutely am open to hearing about problems in the district, ways to cut costs, etc.

Fourth, if you dont think people are SHOUTING or SCREAMING on these boards, I suggest you have not been paying attention!

Fifth, I dont think I have ever had a beef with Original Joe on a point he has made about the district. And you wont find me refusing to listen to anybody else who keeps a civil tongue in their heads, and makes criticisms which are reasoned and logical.

(The reason I asked Original Joe if he was ever on the boards with his real name is because I thought he might be a guy who used to post here a year or so back -- initials GF -- who I had a lot of respect for even though he and I were typically on opposite sides of the debate.)

Finally, to your last sentence, I presume nothing of the sort. I absolutely believe that people with a different opinion can be constructively trying to make 204 a better place. In fact it usually REQUIRES people of different opinions to get to the right answer in most situations.

However, I DO presume that people who are calling names, making accusations of greed, nepotism, dishonesty, double-dealing, graft, etc all based on no evidence whatsoever are NOT operating in a constructive fashion.

(P.S. Miriam-Webster defines "Diatribe" as "A bitter and abusive speech or writing." I have read plenty of them here. Heck I have probably even penned a few. But I hardly think the post in question qualifies as one. But that of course is also a matter of opinion.)

By Original Joe on September 9, 2009 2:18 PM
To Anonymous on September 9, 2009 2:02 PM,

I've given public comment multiple times in the past and spoken to people in the Administration about where I recommend budget and spending changes. I'm already on the public record.

Are you?
-------------------------

What a cop out! You give him a platform and he hides. Come on, fill the room with your intelligence. Let us know where the changes should be so that we can join you in your efforts.

There there everyone. Relax, 204 voters will approve any sum of money the board needs to provide excellent education to your children. Scores of millions of dollars or hundreds of million dollars. If they need it, you will approve it. You always have. And if you do not, then there will be program cuts, split shifts and other penalties the SB will impose upon you. The taxpayers ticket we supported in 203 had no chance against big education. Cronies went door to door, "its only another $30 per month on the tax bill" the sports booster mom told me. Think what SD 204 improvments could be made with only $30 a month in 204 times 59,000 houses. Is that too much to ask for? You could have artifical turf at your football stadiums too as we do. I wonder what the request will actually be?

To Anonymous on September 9, 2009 10:55 PM,

I don't want or need your support or the 'we' you speak of. Do you think you have some bat phone to the School Board and they bow to you or are you saying you are a Board member yourself?

The suggestions are where they need to be. If they take them under advisement and act upon them, great. If not, then that's the Board's prerogative. 'We' still get to pay the Bill.

Civics

You claim people should stop complaining about MV now because it is open and running ( after a rush to make sure it was done ASAP and wasting millions in expedite charges even though real attendance figures were known before it was started ), and people should stop complaining about buses and transportation costs because those buses are taking kids to school ( even though we were told costs were thoroughly analyzed for the MV location when boundaries were done, just bunk as evidenced by how things have played out with taking over routing). Maybe we should stop complaining about the handling of BB too ( btw, hows the sale of that land for $6.4M going since it was shown as an asset on the MV balance sheet ? ).

Maybe also stop complaining how we were duped by the wording on the last referendum we approved - after being told repeatedly where the new HS would be, and we could afford it no matter what there, it gets moved. The response from our board we are supposed to trust, " I guess some people couldn't read the ballot".

We can read all right, and now we know clearly we cannot trust, so why would we believe anything on the next referendum when it is clear changes can occur easily to anything we vote on.

Don't you see a common thread here ? The way our tax dollars are being spent here in 204 is apalling. As a 20+ year resident who approved every request for more $ up until now - I have had enough. Not another dime

To By Anonymous on September 9, 2009 10:55 PM

I'll give you one, don't spend 20k for a survey when you have demonstrated in the past that what respondents want is irrelevant, as you don't listen or act upon those responses.

Civics, thanks for the response. Perhaps your post didn't reach the level of a diatribe, but you certainly pushed the envelope ;-)

I do understand what you are saying, and constructive dialogue should be favored. Some on this blog, however, prefer to trash the messenger rather than point out the shortcomings of the message with facts that show the weakness of what was posted. Discredit the messenger rather than the message.

While I am not a seasoned veteran of D204, I consider myself a quick study. From my vantage point our District representatives have made some critical errors. I have posted many of them on the blue boards, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who I am.

I have invited all to question anything I have said there. As you suggest, I prefer civility. Any thing less says more about the poster than the subject of the post.

This blog is certainly a case in point. I certainly wouldn't what to take credit for much of what is posted here.

By Original Joe on September 9, 2009 11:16 PM
To Anonymous on September 9, 2009 10:55 PM,

I don't want or need your support or the 'we' you speak of. Do you think you have some bat phone to the School Board and they bow to you or are you saying you are a Board member yourself?

The suggestions are where they need to be. If they take them under advisement and act upon them, great. If not, then that's the Board's prerogative. 'We' still get to pay the Bill.

****************************

But what if you let the rest of us know so that we too can lobby the School Board and testify at the public hearings? Wouldn't that be more effective?

By RealityCheck on September 10, 2009 11:19 AM
To By Anonymous on September 9, 2009 10:55 PM

I'll give you one, don't spend 20k for a survey when you have demonstrated in the past that what respondents want is irrelevant, as you don't listen or act upon those responses.

********************

You see, I can support that. We should do away with the "marketing" or "public relations" line items. They really serve no just purpose. If the school board communicates with its residents using the existing technology, there should be no need for such projects and expenditures.

To Anonymous on September 11, 2009 1:49 AM,

"But what if you let the rest of us know so that we too can lobby the School Board and testify at the public hearings? Wouldn't that be more effective?"

No, it would not. They will do what they have already decided they are going to do.

To, Anonymous on September 11, 2009 1:49 AM

Show us that your 'lobbying' idea works.

First: Go give public comment or put forth in these 'hearings' you speak of that they need to sell the Brach Brodie land that we still own and get $6.4 million cash put back into the district. Please make sure they sell it as soon as possible; say by the end of the fiscal year.

It's been 20 months since they said they would do this.

Second: Lobby to have the Administration start paying for their own benefits like the rest of the working families do in the District.

Get those done, and I'll personally share with you all the rest.

Civics and Anonymous,

Somehow we missed each other at the last meeting.

By Original Joe on September 16, 2009 1:25 AM
Civics and Anonymous,

Somehow we missed each other at the last meeting.

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According to state law the school district can be forced to sell surplus land. I am having the petition drafted while you are sitting at meetings.

My concern is with the bus and the drivers assigned to our subdivision. The Metea Valley bus arrives so early that the kids are there forty minutes or more before school starts. On some mornings, the lights aren't even on yet and the halls are deserted with no teachers in sight. What a recipe for disaster. Forty minutes is a long time to leave kids of that age unsupervised in an empty building. While some may decide to use the time wisely (maybe 10% of them study), the rest of these kids are idly passing time. How long will it be before idleness turns to boredom which turns to vandalism or worse? The bus company and district should rethink the bussing problem and address the issues of getting the high school kids to school at a reasonable time and with a short commute on the bus. If needed, add new busses to service stops and hire drivers who actually know the routes.

To Anonymous on September 16, 2009 7:14 AM,

My understanding is that the land has been available to anyone who wants to buy it at cost, which I believe is approximately $256K / acre.

So far, it would seem that no one is interested in buying it at that price.

If they are "forced" to sell it, the price has to drop (since no one wants it at cost) and the district loses money on the property. Is this what you are specifically contemplating trying to force?

When you have the petition online, please post a URL.

Original Joe

You told us that one of your ideas to resolve the budget deficit was to have the Board sell the land. You sounded as if the Board was against the idea of a sale. I took up your cause (which seemed worthy), researched it, and began the process to have your idea take fruition. Now, you tell us that the Board is not fighting the idea, they just can't get the price they want. And, it seems like you are in accord with the idea that they should not be forced to sell it if it is at a loss.

Exactly what do you want from the Board on this issue? Once you decide, let us know so that we can react accordingly.

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By Original Joe on September 11, 2009 4:14 PM
To, Anonymous on September 11, 2009 1:49 AM

Show us that your 'lobbying' idea works.

First: Go give public comment or put forth in these 'hearings' you speak of that they need to sell the Brach Brodie land that we still own and get $6.4 million cash put back into the district. Please make sure they sell it as soon as possible; say by the end of the fiscal year.

It's been 20 months since they said they would do this.

To Anonymous on September 16, 2009 3:50 PM,

I simply asked for a clarification of whether or not that was what would be 'forced' (Sell it cheaper than cost).
They have been holding out for $256/acre and no one wants to buy it.
Some revenue is better than no revenue since we are not using it anyway.

Again, is this what you are speaking of doing, forcing the sale even at a lower price? I personally wouldn't be against it and would support it, which is why I asked when/where you would have a petition ready.

to always thinking...

...or maybe not bus kids 6-8 miles from their home to MVHS so that unnatural routes and times do not have to be enacted. Of course that would have taken some work up front, or allow the school to fill naturally by geography which is what the number 1 concern of the populace was during boundary discussions. Wait 1-2 years until kids are driving that route also.

Earth to taxpayers: to make an error (how's that) on the side of overspending is wasteful spending for the wise taxpayer. That's how we ultimately get to the point of not making the budget needs. The good thing is maybe the taxpayers will finally start paying attention to their tax situation because the economy is killing their finances.

Good point on the "where's the $6.4 million that was an asset in the MV balance sheet". However, good fiscal management means you should get inflation plus the cost of borrowing money on the subsequent sale -- JUST TO BE KEPT WHOLE OR BREAKEVEN. That means about 1-5% per year for inflation plus say 4-5% on your money tied up in land and not being used for MV, education or operations. When was the BB land purchased? If BB was bought in 2005, use say 6% for inflation and cost of borrowing in total, and sell next year, then we should get 6% on every year the asset was held -- or about $8.5 million plus TO BREAKEVEN.

Otherwise, we are erring on the side of overspending.

Today's email from IPSD 204

Dear Indian Prairie School District 204 Community,

As Indian Prairie parents and taxpayers like you, we know that the financial health of our school district is important for our children and our community. That is why we volunteer our time as members of the Indian Prairie Citizens Financial Advisory Committee (CFAC).

The CFAC is a think tank comprised of business and financial professionals charged with advising the District 204 administration. The committee focuses on factors affecting revenues and expenses, looking for ways to improve the District's financial health. We examine how existing activities and programs are funded and look for innovative ideas from education, government, and business. Our emphasis is on performance and improved financial efficiency.

Given these tough economic times, the CFAC is looking for community input. We are seeking forward-looking, creative, and innovative ideas that could lead to greater financial efficiency and cost savings.

You can share your ideas online at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=36WCeEWnEwAC8IMTVoziBg_3d_3d through October 15. While we will probably repeat this opportunity in the future, you can help the most by making a suggestion right now.

Thanks in advance to all those taking a few minutes to share their ideas at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=36WCeEWnEwAC8IMTVoziBg_3d_3d.

Sincerely,

Indian Prairie Citizens Financial Advisory Committee

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School District 204
http://www.ipsd.org
780 Shoreline Drive
Aurora, IL 60504
USA

Can somebody explain to me why Gregory MS has three adminstrative
assistants/secretaries? One for each assistant principal and the
principal. Multiply this by the number of schools in the district and
you come up with a staggering number of people who are probably
duplicating their efforts. With the advent of office suite software
and automated telephone responses, this is a complete waste of money.
take a long and serious look at the support personnel in each school.
Their is an enormous amount of people which could be eliminated,
saving money on salaries, benefits and pensions.

To 204 taxpayer:

You are so right about the personnel.

For others who probably think like you, please visit: http://ipsd204.proboards.com/index.cgi?

If you think everything's Jim Dandy in 204 visit: http://ip204.proboards.com/index.cgi?

Joe: Given past performance, I have no idea why you or anyone else should not be surprised that SD 204 will not make severe spending cuts to close budget gaps. They never have and never will. They will simply engineer support for more money to close the budget shortfall and they will do so by plying the collective conscience of the taxpaying population. No one wants the children to suffer by doing without. For crying out loud, people in 203 actually voted to increase their taxes to put in artifical turf at both stadiums. This is high school people! They talk about how green they are but tear out an expansive natural prairie created years ago at NN during the last phase of vogue enviornmental concerns and paved it over this summer. So much for living what you preach! Holm said late last year as I recall the 204 budget deficit would be $6M. Then recently $8M and more recently $9M. Government budgets are elastic. No one really knows what they are until the spending is done then they need more money than the previous budget period. And that is especially true with both Naperville School Districts but 204 in particular. So I'm sorry to write I do not believe there is any tax relief in 204 because the VOTERS will not hold the collective feet of the board to the fire to cut spending. And now with another high school, they have no choice but to INCREASE spending.