State to test more students for steroids

I think the IHSA should definitely test for steroid use on high school teams, but like the NCHS coach said, I don't think 1000 state-wide is very much of a deterrence. In my opinion, steroids don't belong in any sports, much less high school sports, and their use should receive strong consequences.

It's not going to be much of a deterrent if the coaches don't back it and impress upon the kids that they should comply no matter what. Stine should be disciplined for his comments.

Personally I think coach Mike Stine's statement is TOTALLY inappropriate, way out of line, and that he should be censored for having made a statement like this on behalf of Naperville Central, its students, parents, and the taxpayers who support the football program that provides him with employment.

This isn't even close to the kind of a leadership statement, much less a "role model" statement, I would expect to hear from someone like a coach, who also happens to be a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE, in regard to a new law that affects players the team he is responsible for coaching. Football players are students first. I can not think of a worse possible way for a football coach to fail to support what students are learning in social studies not to mention the Governor and State Legislature.

Does anyone at SD 203 actually think before they open their mouth and let this kind of garbage start spilling out?

Hey Coach Stine... how about something like this: "Guys, as long as I'm coach and regardless of or random testing or anything else... we run a clean program here. I will not personally tolerate any kind of steriods. Period. Not now, not ever. Anyone who doesn't like or agree with how this football program is going to be operated can hit the showers now and turn in your pads.

And if Coach Stine doesn't have the backbone to take a strong personal and compelling position on steroids then it is time for the principal to fire one coach and hire a new one.

Why should this be another "problem" for the state to manage and run? A random testing program can be run locally using local hospitals to collect samples, independent testing laboratories, and a local or regional commission to oversee the integrity. Any cost of running the program should be included with student athletic fees as just another cost associated with participating in the program... no different than cleats or a yearly physical.

Since we don't actually know the question that Stine was asked before he made his statement, we need to be careful not to overreact. Making the assumption that he has not covered this with students is not the assumption to make. The quote has nothing to do with what he may say to his team at practice or team meetings.

If the question was strictly about the IHSA policy, then he is correct. It's not a policy that is going to make a huge impact at this time. The truth of it is, the chances of being caught in the current system are pretty slim, exactly as Stine said. Not every athlete is tested on every team. Not even half the athletes are. So it is possible that an athlete could get away with steroid use. Hopefully every coach will emphasize with their athletes that if they do use steroids, there are not only negative health effects, but if they are one who is randomly tested, they jeopardize the team's entire season.

If the question had been about steroid use in general, then we might have heard a whole different statement. In fact he may have had much more to say that was not included in the article. (As someone who had a Beacon News reporter hang out with me for about 4 hours one day when I was teaching in East Aurora, I know that quotes are used selectively.)

So for now let's not overreact to Stine's statement. Unless you have a son playing on his team, you aren't going to know his full opinion on the subject from the little in this article.

By Anonymous on August 12, 2009 3:21 PM
Why should this be another "problem" for the state to manage and run? A random testing program can be run locally using local hospitals to collect samples, independent testing laboratories, and a local or regional commission to oversee the integrity. Any cost of running the program should be included with student athletic fees as just another cost associated with participating in the program... no different than cleats or a yearly physical.
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There are schools that do this. It can be done with no cost to the taxpayers at large. Just add the cost to the athletic fee paid to participate. I'm all for it. Let's see the Naperville school districts take the lead. Maybe Coach Stine could draft the policy to make amends for his poor attitude and leadership.

Anonymous 3:21 has it right. Nanny state government has no role in this. It should be done by the IHSA and the individual school districts. Keep it simple with random testing paid for by athletic fees. Possibly work with an area pharmaceutical company to receive discounted sampling and testing kits. Schools from less affluent districts who demonstrate they can't afford to test should receive free or doscounted testing from a local clinic or hospital. Have a zero tolerance standard that would carry over to any collegiate athletic career a student may aspire to. Test positive; no more sports for you, ever. That should be an adequate deterrent.

I think the testing already done shows there is not much of a problem. Until everyone is ready to be tested for drugs at their jobs, I don't think kids should be singled out unless there is probable cause.

Ken

I think it is an issue of the ability to make an informed choice. Can your everyday teen make a decision between athletic achievement today and the possible inability to procreate in the future? Or, the possibility of the inability to control one's anger to the point of homicidal tendencies? For many, the question is can I excel today and get a scholarship. I think that what we see in many teens is an attitude of indestructability. The bad things will happen to someone else. They can't happen to me; I'm too young. I won't suffer the adverse affects of [fill in the name here of the chemical dependency of choice].

Let's let the adults fend for themselves. But, let's not give up on the next generations.

Former WV Mom

The problem is that NCHS, based upon current rankings, has an excellent chance of making the playoffs. Under the plan, making the playoffs increases one's chance of being subjected to a drug test. It's too late at the end of the year to suddenly get religion and try to get off the drugs. Stine should both publicly and in the locker room impressing upon his team to stay straight. He can't send mixed signals.

Compare Stine's statement with Mike Rogowski's and you see what the proper response should be:

"We're just doing the same things we did last year -- every athlete has to have that form signed," said Waubonsie Valley athletic director Mike Rogowski, referring to the parent permission form that also requires the signatures of student-athletes. "Anytime during the year, the IHSA can come in and test us."

Many employers already have a variety of drug screening practices that go with the condition of employment. Certain industries have mandatory drug testing, others that is routinely done as part of all accident investigation. We are not exactly charting new ground here or setting any precedents. We do not tolerate cheating in schools and steroids and performance enhancing drugs are the athletic equivalent to cheating.

Let's not forget that student athletes are breaking the law by using illegal drugs and when they do it as part of a public school team they are violating the law on public property; not in the privacy of their own home. Add in to that the uncompetitive aspects against teams who are playing by the rules and student athletes who hope to get full a ride scholarship, many at taxpayer supported schools, by flaunting the rules and steroids become no better than the athletic equivalent of the U of I admission scandal that has been in the news for the last two weeks.

Considering the serious legal consequences these athletes should face along with having a criminal conviction following them forever; well random drug testing and getting kicked out of the sport for life is a pretty good alternative. Never turn down a better offer.

Most of you don't seem to get the point. There has been no proven steroid problem in high school sports. By the states own admission, all cases with positive tests have proven to have good medical reasons. I imagine my daughter would fall into that as she has been given a prescription steroid creme to use for a skin problem. If she ever gets tested (doubtful), she has the prescription to show she is legal.

My feeling is, as I stated before, if there is probable cause, fine. Otherwise, why immediately assume all students are guilty and need to be tested. As Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire showed, steroid use is pretty easy to spot.

I have spent much of my working life in an industry in which law enforcement personal considers me to be a criminal as soon as I start my day. I hate to see kids treated the same way.

Again, not being the interviewer, we do not know everything that Stine asked. He may very well have said what you suggested. But the reporter was already using that quote from Rogowski, so would have chosen a different quote from Stine. They are not going to put two quotes that are pretty similar in the same article. They will try to get something different from each person. I am just saying we should not make assumptions based on this article alone. It's not a very long or in-depth article and one quote does not indicate Stine's entire attitude on this issue.

Steroid use is covered in the Co-Curricular Participation Code at Central.
http://www.athletics2000.com/napervillecentral/Documents/co-curricularparticipationcode%5B2%5D.pdf
According to the information on their athletic site, athletes did have to turn in a signed for when registering for Fall sports. If it is like WV's it is not only permission to participate but also states that you read and understand the athletic code.

As an added piece of information, the Beacon News has an article today on the steroid issue. It is very similar to the Sun's, with Rogowski being quoted. But instead of Stine at Central, the other quoted is Lutzenkirchen the AD at West Aurora. His quote has some similarities to Stine's. That to me indicates that they were both asked a very specific question about the state process, not a question about steroid use in general.
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/1714705,2_8_2_AU13_STEROIDS_S1-090813.article

When you think about 1000 total students being tested out of how many in the state? (I'm estimating at least 1000 at WV if you add up the individual athletes on each team at every level at the school. Although some of them may be multi sport, when it comes to testing it is done on an individual basis per sport.) 1000 athletes is just a drop in the bucket in this state.

So again, let's not make assumptions on these coaches and ADs attitudes towards steroids based on these articles alone.

Huh? Testing is good. Period. It's for their own good.

Ken,

So based upon your position we should do nothing until there is a problem? And how is everything that happens between now and when a problem is finally identified handled and made right in terms of the cheating that has gone on?

It is a simple urine test for goodness sake. Kids who are clean have absolutely nothing to worry about and they are being taught that illegal drugs are wrong and that there are consequences for using them.

Ignoring the issue until there finally is a problem spotted just means that we tolerate some kids sneaking around and flaunting the law. I don't agree that is the correct or proper message to put in any kids head. That is not the correct way to teach respect, responsibility, or accountability. As a community we need to teach our kids to take pride in following the rules of society and in cases of something like a simple urine test to be proud and willing to demonstrate that they are clean. As a society we should also we willing and compassionate to help treat those who use or abuse illegal drugs of any kind.

If testing is good, and we are setting an example, how come drug testing is not required of all school personnel, school board members, and anyone who enters the school on school business? Heck, why not just make drug testing a requirement for everyone, just like paying taxes?

Kids know illegal drugs are wrong, and if there is probable cause, I have no problem with testing. Just assuming all athletes are guilty until proven innocent doesn't work for me, just like it doesn't work for me in my line of work. Up until some health problems reared their ugly head a few years ago, I had to be tested minimum of every two years, and randomly at any time my number came up. I went three months in a row once, for the same kind of feel good nonsense that is being forced on these high school kids.

Bottom line is that testing has already shown there is no problem, and it is time we quit treating our kids like criminals.

Sorry but it seems to me because of unjustified costs of higher education, the alure of a full ride athletic scholarship is intense. It can make the difference of going to a particular college or not going to college. As long as the costs of college are kept excessive by the educational establishment, there will always be those who will use performance enhancing drugs under the belief they will not get caught. The "community" will have little to do with individual conduct. I am not sure how as a society we can be compassionate and help treat those who use or abuse drugs of any kind when they do so for self advancing reasons. Especially when some or perhaps many of the high school athletes do so with parental knowledge because of course parents too benefit financially from such conduct. There are some people in my family who think their kid will be a great NHL player in the future and anything they can do to realize that goal will be done as a matter of fact. And a little bit of steroid enhancment may be just fine.

By Ken on August 14, 2009 6:17 PM

I'm with you. This has absolutely nothing to do with teaching "responsibility". By definition, responsibility is the ability to control one's own actions without aide or input from others. You teach it at home by setting examples. You teach it by sitting down with your kids and developing a relationship and setting standards. The consequences always come after the fact. That's how life really works.

The treatment of children as if they are criminals does nothing more than exacerbate their natural mistrust of adults and school administrators. Let's not forget that testing, no matter how stringent, has NEVER proven to actually eliminate cheating or steroid use. Look at MLB. They have tested for decades. The suppliers simply changed the formulas. It's like any other cat and mouse game.

I say we follow the very same rules we expect to be applied to ourselves. You need Probable Cause before you can violate my right to privacy: especially when we are talking about my biology....

Blenum wrote "I'm with you. This has absolutely nothing to do with teaching "responsibility". By definition, responsibility is the ability to control one's own actions without aide or input from others. You teach it at home by setting examples. You teach it by sitting down with your kids and developing a relationship and setting standards. The consequences always come after the fact. That's how life really works."

Very well said!

blemum,
"You teach it at home by setting examples" and by what stretch of the imagination is teaching not done at school by every adult in the school building by being a role model and by setting an example?

You and Ken want to stick your head in the sand and pretend there isn't a problem. There is a problem and anyone who goes out and talks to kids knows there is a problem. Maybe the problem isn't big enough to concern you, but it is big enough to concern others. Well meaning, but wrong focused mindsets such as yours help create the perfect environment for those who hope to cheat the system that they can knowingly operate under the radar and not fear getting caught.

Performance enhancing drugs are the athletic equivalent to academic cheating. No one would go along with the same approach in terms of academic cheating. Just look at the community outrage last year when a principal got caught plagiarizing the commencement address. The only correct message to send children is that cheating of any kind, of any form, at any time is wrong... that those adults charged with responsibility over various aspects of every educational institution will be openly monitoring for violations and those who get caught will be held accountable.

You don't teach kids morals and ethics by pussy footing around. You and others like you need to grow a spine and learn how to teach children the meaning of social and personal responsibility and stop trying to find reasons and excuses that justify unacceptable behavior.

To date the consequences of getting caught with performance enhancing drugs were minor and everyone knew they had a low chance of getting caught. That created a culture under which coaches, parents, and athletes ignored the rules and gamed the system. It is time to clean it up and put some integrity back into athletics. This isn't going to happen until the chances of getting caught are increased and the penalty outweighs the benefit. Maybe you don't like that cold fact, but those who turned a blind eye and allowed this kind of stuff to go on created this situation and your kids and my kids have to pay the price for it. There is no middle ground on this. We are either committed to getting performance enhancing drugs out of the hands of athletes or we are not. And sad to say, once the rules of the games have been changed like this it most likely means we will be monitoring for these kinds of drugs for the foreseeable future.

Anonymous at 11:02 wrote:
You don't teach kids morals and ethics by pussy footing around. You and others like you need to grow a spine and learn how to teach children the meaning of social and personal responsibility and stop trying to find reasons and excuses that justify unacceptable behavior.
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I believe this is exactly what Blenum is advocating, teaching personal and social responsibility. Just that it should be done in the home before the kids even reach the age of high school. Before the chances to use steroids would even come into play. That it is the job of the parents to teach these things to their children. Blenum is not saying that teachers and other adults in the school are not role models. He/she is saying that it is the parents primary responsibility to teach these things.

Neither is making excuses for teens who do this. They are both pointing out that there should be probable cause. Otherwise if a football player all of a sudden bulks up, in a manner that seems out of the norm, that might be probably cause. If a swimmer all of a sudden in one race drops a considerable amount of time, that might be probably cause.

If every parent did their job of teaching those things at home (many do, but not all), then teachers would be able to focus on teaching curriculum. Instead teachers and schools have had to take on more and more of the teaching of responsibility and good citizenship. So much so that schools (Metes for one) feel they have to develop whole programs to do this.

The current system, even in its slightly expanded form, will not make a dent on its own. The consequences have not changed, just the number of students being tested. And so far, the testing that has been done in Illinois has not revealed a problem. Not one student has been found guilty. The ones who had positive tests had prescriptions and medical reasons for the positive tests. (And yes there are medical conditions that would require someone to take a medication that will give a positive result on these tests.) So it has not been proven an issue in Illinois at this point.

As far as drug testing of school personnel, there is often a urine test involved with new hires. And I have known of cases where a teacher who was charged with a DUI was not hired back for the following year.

By Anonymous on August 16, 2009 6:08 PM

In your discussion of probably cause you have forgotten the exception to that rule under the 4th Amendment. The exception is where government establishes a program to randomly test for infractions. You have talked about DUI. A normal exception to the requirment that police need probably cause to test for DUI is the random test of motorists; i.e., the road block. The random test of athletes is the "road block" of high school sports.

Quit treating all teenagers like criminals

1. Lock downs at schools so search dogs can sniff their locker.

2. Breath tests at football games

3. Random drug testing

4. Metal detectors

Geeze, give me a break, how many kids are really getting busted for this stuff? You would think D203 is run amok with rampant crime.

And you expect teenagers to respect adults with all this stuff?

Yeah, there will be some kids who do this, don't tell me that when all of you were in high school you didn't know about bad kids, and you didn't go and report those kids either. So get off your high horse folks.

Quit blaming everything on the kids, for every one bad apple I can find 20 more upstanding kids.

Coach Stine is right. He's a realist, and not just telling people what they want to hear. Because he's stating the obvious, the IHSA doesn't have near the resources to be affective at this.

Maybe if the cost of doing all this testing was put to better use, such as improving health and fitness facilities at our schools, you get a much better benefit.

O yeah, then you same people would be complaining about money being used to help kids be strong and healthy.