The Naperville Public Library is consistantly at the top of the list of best libraries in the country. But it has seen a reduction in its tax levy two years in a row, dropping 6 percent in 2009 and nearly 7 percent in 2010.
Officials are being asked by the city to cut $1.1 million from the library budget to help eliminate the city's deficit. The library is proposing to use $500,000 from its operations fund, as well as a request that the city waive the library paying $150,000 into Naperville's IMRF and health insurance fund. Other proposals include cutting Sunday hours, discontinuing 'premium pay' on Sundays, and cutting staff.
Previously the library had been forced to cut many programs, book clubs and other events many residents had enjoyed, along with buying fewer books and reducing time materials can be checked out.
What do you think of the proposed cuts to the library? Can it maintain its quality with all the reductions?
In times such as these, the Library is the last thing that should be cut back. It is cheap and wholesome leisure entertainment for the entire family.
I think premium pay for Sundays is something the library should never have offered in the first place. And I don't understand the necessity for many of the capital improvements projects the NPL is currently undertaking, as they sound like cosmetic changes. Why do circulation desks need to be replaced, for example? Or the lower level lobby flooring at Naper Blvd? I know the money for these projects comes from a different "envelope" than the library's normal operating budget, but ultimately, pretty much all of the library's funding comes from the taxpayers. You would think that in the current economic climate they would think twice before committing to some of these projects.
-JQP
What the economy turn a turn a couple of years ago, I started using the library more. Rather than buying a new or used book off Amazon, I would "borrow" it from the library. We have also borrowed movies quite inexpensively. The library being open on Sunday is often the only chance I have to get there. Saturdays are spent running errands and shuttling my daughter to various activities. During the week, getting home shortly after 6:00 p.m., if there are no school activities, I am certainly not in the mood to run to the library. So please don't cut Sunday hours! Rather than paying employees a premium on Sundays, why not adjust employee hours (to avoid premium pay) or hire part-timers to work on Sundays? I would suggest that some of the cultural fund/tax be given to the library. I think that would be a great use of the money. The library adds to the culture of our City.
This library is an excellent institution but unfortunately like any organization in the country has EXCESS FAT TO BURN.
Excess fat is ignored by almost all private and public instituions until we have a recession or depression.
At least Library Officials are not talking about wanting increased tax levies.
Unlike City Officials, they don't have their head stuck in the sand and are looking for ways to cut excess fat and unnecessary spending.
They should set a goal of 10% reduction in pay-rolls, pension-rolls, benefits-rolls and any other ROLL of FAT they can find.
Just like almost every human has a roll of fat around the mid-drift almost every organization, public or private, has rolls of fat.
No one should be exempt from cutting costs and expenses including the lovely library and its employees.
There have been over 5.3 million forecloses in this country including hundreds in Naperville. The more we can reduce the real estat tax on a homeowner, the less chance we have of a foreclosure.
Almost 10% of Napervillians are unemployed. Almost 17% are underemployed. Why do we need to stress them out with higher real estate taxes? They have to deal with their mortgages and health insurance. Kids in college. Is that NOT enough! How dare our City Officials to be contemplating higher taxes due to higher wages for themselves? How disgusting and shameful? TERMINATE them all! Force them to submit their RESIGNATIONS immediately for daring to mention higher taxes. Blast them, humiliate them and embarrass them with front page headlines in the Naperville Sun. Call the Mother Sun-Times, if Opinion Editor Tim West refuses to allow an exposing of those who want to increase taxes in this recession/borderline depression economy. This is the time to break the back of the ESTABLISHMENT once and for all. They have showed their filthy colors by even thinking of tax increases. Honestly, they showed their utter STUPIDITY and should all RESIGN immediately. A stupid act like this in Japan calls for jumping off City Hall and committing suicide for being so IGNORANT to the realities that surround the residents of this great town.
If a town like OAK BROOK can have NO real estate tax, we should at least strive to reduce ours. They had problems and could have taken the easy way out and followed Naperville by imposing severe real estate taxes. Instead they cut the EXCESS FAT which included 14.75 employees, cut waste everywhere and found a way to balance the budget despite severely reduced sales taxes revenue and NO REAL ESTATE TAX revenue.
If they can do it, we can do it. I am very proud of our Library Officials for thinking out of the BOX of TAXATION. If only City Officials would demand of themselves what they demand of the library, Naperville would be a much more RESIDENT FRIENDLY town as it use to be when I first moved here 35 to 40 years ago. (Need to be a little vague to protect my identity from the fiscally irresponsible folks running this town into the ground.)
May God Bless our Library Officials for understanding what needs to be done and getting the job done.
Kudos to the number one Library in the Nation.
CIJ
My family frequents the library on a regular basis for books, reference material, magazines, DVDs, and CDs. Often my children will have group projects that require research, which is done at the library on Sundays as that is usually the day when everyone can get away for a couple hours.
I would hate to see Sundays eliminated at the libraries in town. I think the suggestion regarding hiring part-time workers to supplement the full-time employees is a good idea. I know at least the 95th Street location has meeting rooms which can be booked for private meetings, and wonder if there is a fee for the room usage. If not, even a nominal rental fee would assist the library with funding. Also, maybe charging a nominal fee for the programs it offers its patrons would help replenish funds - at least until the economy turns around.
You're right, Sunday seems like a bad to choose to cut hours, but I bet the library knows when they are busy, and when they aren't
With regards to closing on Sundays...
If they close on their busiest day then the public might be more willing to accept a tax hike to re-open it.
...keep that in mind.
If I'm not mistaken, the bulk of the employees at NPL already are part-time, which makes the "need" to pay overtime for Sunday doubly hard to understand.
CIJ...once again start with a tiny bit on library & then go & talk about foreclosures and taxes. Please stick to the point of the library. Just saying they can cut waste is general. Give ideas one way or the other like many others are posting.
I mentioned this general idea a while back, but why can't high school kids volunteer time for community service projects. How about boy/girl scouts for badges. Rather than close on Sunday find alternative ways to stay open. Take pride in this wonderful opportunity which many people around the world do not have. You know when I lived in another state for a while a very small town decided they wanted the best for their children's school. They did not have the $ so they MADE it happen. Parents donated time, they donated resources and just did not take no for an answer. For example, one man owned a tree trimming business so he volunteered time and machines to chip wood in community and clear the land they needed and then they used the wood chips for landscaping at the school. This small little school now has microscopes that are hooked up to I believe either NASA or perhaps Argonne...I'll have to look up been awhile, but the students look in the microscopes at the same this institution did & they communicated with each other. They just never said no but rather found a way to make it happen. You know the saying, when you want something bad enough....otherwise you really did not want it that bad!
By One Who Values You on October 19, 2009 8:33 PM
CIJ...once again start with a tiny bit on library & then go & talk about foreclosures and taxes. Please stick to the point of the library. Just saying they can cut waste is general. Give ideas one way or the other like many others are posting.
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OWVU,
Not to be offensive but don't you realize that there is a Moderator and he approved my post. When he thinks my posts are way off in left field, he does not approve them.
Today, I believe he did not approve one and I am OK with that. I just don't need 10 Moderators telling me how to express my opinions and feelings.
I will continue to express them in a way I feel appropriate. And if the Moderator does not like them, he can censure them. It is his blog site and he can do as he chooses. He lets better than 98% of my posts through so I have no complaints.
He is the BOSS here. He scolds me when he wants. You are a professor. Do you allow your students to run the show in your classroom or do you run the show? Do you issue the discipline when necessary or do you allow your students to dish it out?
It is the same concept here. We have one MODERATOR and HE is the BIG KAHUNA. I don't believe there is a single person on this blog site who believes he is not qualified.
I probably receive his wrath more than any other blogger and I can live with that. But I do not need 10 MODERATORS on my back every day. One is ENOUGH! Please!
Thank you!
CIJ
I agree that the Sunday overtime should go. I wonder if it is a throw back to the days the library began opening on Sundays, when many businesses were closed and it was considered a hardship to work weekends? Now, many people are more than happy to work evenings and weekends as a means to continue education, coordinate child care issues with working spouses, extra income, etc. Get rid of Sunday overtime or get new employees willing to work for straight time wages.
Isn't it amazing that whenever there is a budget deficit the first things to go are the ones that most effect the public? It is the only way they can squeeze more money out of people. The library should close on Sunday only after the Mayor and the City Manager are sitting alone in the Municipal Building.
Yeah CIJ, we have one moderator, but how TIRING for him to have to constantly monitor your excessively long posts. If you abide by his requests and check your OWN behavior, he would not have to continually DO IT FOR YOU! Give him a break. He has asked nicely. If you want me to repost some of his many, many, many admonishments directed SOLELY at YOU, go ahead and respond.
NPL spends about $100 per capita to about $50 per capita as a comparison to public libraries in Illinois.
The Library system is the gem of Naperville.
To keep it operating effectively I would gladly pay:
$1 for two hours on the computers.
$2 to rent a "hot movie"
25 cents to rent a Music CD or Book on CD
50 cents for rentals of children's DVDs
The alternative may be waiting for weeks to borrow a CD, DVD or waiting in line to work on a computer. I would prefer to see lots of materials and the same level of staffing.
Considering the economic multi year recession we are in, paying regular time for Sundays and some other common sense adjustments makes sense.
By Anonymous on October 20, 2009 6:42 AM
Yeah CIJ, we have one moderator, but how TIRING for him to have to constantly monitor your excessively long posts.
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My long posts are informative and educational. They generate a lot of response compared to nonsensical one liners which contribute almost nothing to the debate.
The Moderator has never complained about the length of my posts. He seems to be an extremely fast reader. I once wrote 3 pages and he had it posted in a minute flat.
The Moderator has correctly stated that I do on occasion repeat myself from time to time. I have explained to him that when you are dealing with Kindergarten Children you sometimes have to repeat yourself which appears to he the case when you discuss such complex issues as the Present Value of our Future Obligations in the Pension System.
In the end, while people constantly whine and complain about me, the few threads I blog on for the most part are the ones that don't stall.
If you put 100 people that agree, there will be no debate and no use for this blog site. You all should be thankful that I am opinionated and think out of the box and disagree with the ESTABLISHMENT that rules this town with a mixture of PROPAGANDA and IRON FIST.
You all should be thankful that I am willing to take on the Establishment single handedly, if necessary, to expose their government waste that results in unbearbly high taxes to the sleepy and overworked Naperville Resident.
As a blogger just noted they want to cut out important services to us like in the library and leaf collection, while giving themselves Big Fat Raises that result in unaffordable Big Fat Pensions.
The government has brainwashed many of you nice folks for many years. They pretend to be good guys watching out for us taxapayers. Let me unbrainwash the BRAINWASHED amongst some of you folks and show you how our governemnt officials only watch out for themselves....for their pocketbooks....for their retirement benefits which are many times yours and ridiculously unbelievable since they get to retire at age 52 in many cases. Hopefully, library employees don't get to retire at 52 like police or fire fighters in Naperville. Maybe someone can tell me if they know. My guess is library officials are treated like they are the bottom of the barrel in government and made to work like slaves till at least 70 years old like civilians before they can get their FULL RETIREMENT BENEFITS. (I hope I am not wrong and they are also allowed to retire at the very young age of 52.)
Since I am older than 52, I can tell you there is nothing wrong with the human body either physically or mentally that prevents it from being able to perform almost any task short of professional sports at that very young age. Even airline pilots fly up till age 60. So I don't understand why our POLICE and FIRE FIGHTERS are allowed to retire at age 52 at a GREAT UNBEARABLE EXPENSE to their OWN PENSION SYSTEM which is $96.2 million in the hole just for Naperville. Yes, we the taxpayers have to come up with money for THEIR deficit...not them that abused their Corrupt Pension System by changing city departments and proceeding to DOUBLE DIP. No wonder why we are so broke!!!
And I am not just picking on local goverment officials but the US Congress just voted themselves a $99,000 raise in their expense accounts so you would not notice it so easily. Unbelievable in these recessionary times. Their expenses are only in hard cover copies and are not published on-line. Speaking of transparency...lol.... But the Wall Street Journal has been doing a great job exposing our US Senators and Representatives.
Anyway, I am going to try not to HIJACK this thread and limit myself to one even though 2 is usually my limit. If you want to hear everything I have to say about corruption, you have to read the OPEN TOPIC THREAD.
Please attend the City Council Meeting tonight and let your City Council know that you are upset at them for even suggesting or considering higher taxes. Like I said on another thread, I will not be there for I am so upset at their wasteful habits, I would probably pick up the podium and throw it right at them.(JK) I will be watching on Cable TV though and will hold them accountable for anything they say about higher taxes.
CIJ
PS. Again we have ONE VERY CAPABLE MODERATOR who criticises me often. As I told the previous blogger, Anonymous, no need for everyone to play Moderator here. And speaking of Hijacking Threads no one even blogged on this thread for 3 days and one hour before a blogger decided to attack me and I responded to him which is now apparently creating a debate and dismantling mothballs off this thread. I suspect the Moderator would rather read a long informative post than have no one blog for 73 hours. Why would he want a boring Blog Site with no one blogging? He does not smack me as the lazy type who likes to twirl his thumbs while the clock ticks away. He works 15 hour days and when he takes a dinner break, bloggers fire the same post 13 times on him. That is what the Moderator would like to avoid and has said so many times. Please listen up folks if you are worried about the Moderator.
CIJ, I think your posts are too long.
Paperback,
I didn't bother to check your numbers since most Libraries are lightly staffed.
What Naperville's Library system has to offer is: Service, service and more service. I always leave satisfied in every respect, worth every penny. Judging by the heavy repeat usage, a lot of people feel the same way.
If I have to pay an extra $2 on every visit so that I can find the materials in stock and in good condition, I pay it gladly.
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By Paperback on October 20, 2009 10:48 AM
NPL spends about $100 per capita to about $50 per capita as a comparison to public libraries in Illinois.
CIJ,
I applaud you taking an interest in the city.
I give you a standing ovation for using your valuable time to read the budget and draw your own conclusions.
Your interests would be better served by making concise arguments supported by the facts and or linking to them.
Your posts are so long as to defeat your purpose of being heard, the natural reaction is to jump over them. Long posts on blogs are counter culture.
Keep punching but make them concise and spot on.
By Anonymous on October 20, 2009 7:04 PM
CIJ,
I applaud you taking an interest in the city. I give you a standing ovation for using your valuable time to read the budget and draw your own conclusions. Your interests would be better served by making concise arguments supported by the facts and or linking to them.
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Thank you for your kind and sincere comments. I will make every effort to shorten them and provide more links and facts
People are constantly remarking on all my posts so that is an indication they are reading them. Of course, they claim they don't read them but somehow hold me for responsible for evey detail in them....for every word...for every number....for every word I fail to mention to be precise....for every number I leave out that keeps me from being 100% accurate! I can make the tiniest of mistakes on a 3 page post and I will be attacked viciously for being not CREDIBLE. This to me is an indication that my blogs are not only read but put under the microscope. (As well intentioned as you sound, you may be wrong if you state bloggers are not reading my long posts.)
Not only do people read my long posts but search the archives for all my old longer posts to hold me accountable for what I said in the past. Not one but many many bloggers. They will go back 1 year, 2 years or even 3 years to study what I said and find inconsistencies. So trust me they are reading my posts and sometimes over and over again. You may be new and not familiar with the situation. If you don't believe me, just ask Moderator Magee!
Generally long posts on blogs are counter culture. I actually agree with you and read this by professionals, who anaylze BLOGOSPHERE.
However they did say that if one is an established and known blogger a longer post is acceptable and will probably be read.
Having said that I will make every attempt to shorten my posts. Thanks for your genuine constructive criticism.
CIJ
PS. What are your thoughts or the culture, if you will, of all people who use the Anonymous handle instead of picking a simple handle that can identify them?
Would you consider using a handle so I can identify you in the future as someone I can respectfully exchange ideas with?
I know this is off topic for the Library and will limit this to one post to finish the dialog.
CIJ
Put your ideas out there, and I will read them.
Keep punching, the truth is the truth.
Consumers paid down $500 billion this year in debt.
The FEDs ran up another $1.5 Trillion in debt and printed trillions to pay the bills and trillions more to save the bankers skins. So the citizens actually sank another $1 trillion in the hole thanks to DC.
We are rapidly approaching the day when other countries will not accept the dollar in payment for their goods, countries have stopped adding dollars to their reserves and are instead now unloading them since the situation is like musical chairs.
My friend, we are in deep trouble as a country and getting deeper. I respect our public service workers; in the end, they may get their full defined benefit pensions. Just the money will be worthless like the retirees of the Soviet Union now receive in Russia.
Our public service workers would be wise to forgo pay raises and hope the clowns in DC don't finish off our economy, in many ways we are already cooked.
Pray for your children.
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Would you consider using a handle so I can identify you in the future as someone I can respectfully exchange ideas with?
I am encouraged to hear that they are considering cutbacks instead of their historical mindset which is to raise taxes. The library shouldn't be exempt from scutiny but they are not the biggest waste. I think we should start with cutting politicans salaries and then move on to teachers and police/fire. And yes, let's eliminate ALL double dippers. Those are the big tax dark holes.
By denny on October 21, 2009 11:23 AM
I think we should start with cutting politicans salaries and then move on to teachers and police/fire. And yes, let's eliminate ALL double dippers. Those are the big tax dark holes.
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Very well said, Denny. I was told no one would ever agree with me the last few years.
I never gave up.
I see more and more people are finally believing what I have been broadcasting on this blog site for 3.5 years.
It is nice to hear you also dislike this legal policy of DOUBLE DIPPING even practiced by our second highest ranking City Official. Unconscionable in my opinion! The City Council was wise not to allow a DOUBLE DIPPER to run the town. I blasted him for months before the City Council made the decision to select a Manager and I believe due to reading my blogs(which I factually know they read), they decided they could not have this kind of EXPOSURE on their LEGALLY SANCTIONED CORRUPTION.
Imagine if the Naperville Sun would ever join us and help us expose Corruption in City Hall. ( Read the Open Topic Thread if you like details about City Improprieties that exist in almost every DEPARTMENT.)
I do believe if we are persistent and steadfast as the Napergate Man was in the 90s, we can be effective and change policy in our reactionary thinking City. It is time to develop a PLAN for CHANGE!
Thank you,
CIJ
PS. I don't know much about the library, but I would like to see them reduce 10% across the board and everywhere just like every dept in the city. And this is only a FIRST STEP. As I said just like humans have rolls of fat they need to get rid of, every institution can find a roll of fat if they just look in the mirror as we do.
Lets have Scott Huber run the library. In leau of a paycheck, he could live in the library basement for free, and also have free access to the computer lab. Best yet, we wont have to look at his junk pile near the City Parking deck anymore. God Im a genius!!!
CIJ, your posts may be (at least in your mind) informative and educational, but they simply repeat a tired old song. Your solution to every problem involving public institutions is to cut salaries and benefits.
Do you REALLY think our public libraries really have a lot of fat to cut? I doubt it. You should try to come up with other solutions. Your prejudices are beginning to show.
You are a genious...
And he would retire with a BIG FAT PENSION so we would be assured he would not reture to live on the sidewalks one day.
CIJ
By mark on October 25, 2009 5:47 PM
CIJ, your posts may be (at least in your mind) informative and educational, but they simply repeat a tired old song. Your solution to every problem involving public institutions is to cut salaries and benefits. Do you REALLY think our public libraries really have a lot of fat to cut? I doubt it. You should try to come up with other solutions. Your prejudices are beginning to show.
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Mark,
I have laid out many solutions for many situations that go way beyond salaries and benefits. One time I laid out 22 solutions in one post.
I am not going to repeat them or repeat myself. I can not help it if people like you do not know how to read English or comprehend it.
While I am trying to be a Kindergarten Teacher, I am not also now going to be an English Teacher with no pay or pension....lol...
How immature to say my prejudices are showing because I called on every department to reduce whatever they want 10%? How is this PREJUDICE???
Are you that dense that you believe a $14.1 million dollar deficit can be eliminated through MAGIC?
Are you dense enough to believe that the $20.5 million the Police Officers and Fire Fighters lost in this latest bubble in their Pension Funds will be replinshed by them? In case you are, let me tell you the TAXPAYERS will replinish their losses. Every cent of them. We will pay up the you know WHAT in our REAL ESTATE TAXES.
Are you dense enough to believe that the $126.2 million Accrued Actuarial Pension Liability Deficit will somehow evaporate in thin air one day?
You may be tired of my old song. But I am tired of your DENSENESS. It is beyond ROCKS!
And I do believe a public library can cut 10% by being more efficient. How incompetent of the library to be paying premium pay on Sundays when there are 10% unemployed and 17% underemployed who are more than happy to work for regular pay.
I am not the Head Librarian. But if the Head Librarian can not think of a way to reduce his or her budget 10% to help us make the budget balance, then find a new Head Librarian that can get the job done.
I am tired of all you whiners from City Hall who come on here to defend your Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Benefits and Big Fat Pensions.
You can deny all you want who you are, but the bottom line is the only one for higher taxes is a City Employee, Official, or Council Member.
We finally exposed TB as a biased blogger. Not only were his father and brother part of the pension system, but now we find out he and his other brother are PUBLIC EMPLOYEES most probably in line to receive Big Fat Pensions.
Keep hammering away at me all you want.
I am right in your face pounding away at your credibility and phoniness.
IN THE REAL WORLD I CAN NOT FIND ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE YOU CITY EMPLOYEES WHO ARE FIGHTING ME DAY AND NIGHT. THEY ALL THINK YOU ARE OVERPAID AND UNDERWORKED. So smell the coffee before you see lay-offs. Reduce your expenses by 10% so you can avoid lay-offs. Be smart!
The taxpayers are done giving you credit cards and allowing you to be Fiscally Irresponsible. The credit cards are being cut. You will get no more.
Learn to live within your means as we do!
Thank you,
CIJ
PS. And keep in mind the more you attack me the more you are building my credibility. Were you not the same folks that attacked the Napergate Man and until you got eggs on your faces for wasting 10 million dollars of hard earned taxpayer money. Of course you are! You failed against him miserably. Why do you think you will succeed against me when I have studied and adopted his strategy of persistance and steadfastness in exposing you. He was not afraid of your attacks and smears and neither am I! Live and learn.....
How about charging a fee to all the tutors who charge money to tutor and use the library facilities for FREE as their place of business?
"PS. And keep in mind the more you attack me the more you are building my credibility. Were you not the same folks that attacked the Napergate Man..."
Just a thought, but you may not want to bring up your "credibility" and napergate in the same paragraph, as your creation of the napergate cult here is why you have no credibility.
CIJ,
I used to blog on here a lot in the past, but I left after it became more about personal attacks and less about discussing issues. I have started reading this blog once again over the last two months to see if anything has changed. I have read many of your posts and I agree with your position of the city needing to cut staff and not raise our property taxes or create a sales tax in Naperville to solve their deficit problem. I think they need to look inside first before looking outside for help. In the end though, I believe it will probably be a combination of both, the city cutting staff and the creation of a sales tax at some percentage level. I don't think they will raise property taxes as that is a hot button election issue that would rally too many people to come out and vote them out of office.
During my time as a blogger, I was involved in the great Napergate debate supporting the Napergate Man for what he did. I feel he did an honorable job expressing his point and mobilizing people to his cause. However, I would not compare you to him as you did in your last post...he did things differently than you do...he didn't make it personal, it was always about business. From what I have read...you make it personal too many times. I am not saying that people don't bate you with personal attacks, but ignore them. Don't play into their game. You add fuel to the fire when you do that. If you truly want people to rally around you and listen to your point, then don't lower yourself to get in petty personal attacks...stick to the facts and ignore the personal attacks. I like reading your posts much better when they are all about facts!
Thanks,
Kevin
CIJ @ 6:36 AM –
And I thought we had a truce? Just why is it that you can’t stop talking about me? I asked nicely, didn’t I?
Remember the oldest rule here—talk about ideas, not people.
(sigh) Let’s not get off into discussing my brother and late father again. Quite honestly, they are and were far better people than you could ever hope to be. As you sat in your McMansion typing away with the delusion that what’s written here really makes a difference they were working hard for a living to serve the public, keep people safe, and provide for their families.
If you think I’m biased or have a conflict of interest (you seem to use the two interchangeably), then maybe you need to look up the definitions for yourself. Nobody in my family has a personal stake in the finances, salaries, or pensions of Naperville beyond what you do—taxes. Does that mean you have the same alleged conflict of interest as I do?
Go back to our truce and discuss ideas, not people. You don’t want to start discussing families again, do you? Those in glass houses….
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As for the library, there’s no way to avoid cuts in both budget and service; however, (and to no surprise) I disagree with CIJ’s approach. CIJ's approach is blind, draconian, and done with no thought or reason.
Certainly there’s a sane mixture of staff cuts, program cuts, capital improvement deferments, service fee implementation, and fund-raising which can be done to alleviate the budget problems.
I threw fund-raising in there in the hopes that enough people appreciate our library to help fund some programs, books, or computers. I heard that Naper Elementary’s home and school association recently raised thousands of dollars (perhaps as high as $40K) in one night with a live and silent auction. Surely the same approach could be applied to a library system so highly regarded.
Also, could some of the SECA (Culture/Slush) Fund be used for some library programs? I would think there are many aspects to the library which are far more cultural than the million dollar bell tower and half the other grants from the SECA Fund each year.
T.B.
By T.B. on October 26, 2009 2:06 PM "Certainly there’s a sane mixture of staff cuts, program cuts, capital improvement deferments, service fee implementation, and fund-raising which can be done to alleviate the budget problems."
Those are some good ideas!
Kevin
"Can the library maintain it's quality?"
It's a Quality vs. Time vs. Money Issue
The library quality can stay constant if the time and money involved stay constant. So if the money spent decreases, I believe that the quality would also decrease. (However, I believe the library workers' quality/time/attention will stay as true to the outstanding constant it has been as much as time allows.)
Keep supporting our NPL!
RadGirl
By Kevin on October 26, 2009 1:55 PM
CIJ,
During my time as a blogger, I was involved in the great Napergate debate supporting the Napergate Man for what he did. I feel he did an honorable job expressing his point and mobilizing people to his cause. However, I would not compare you to him as you did in your last post...he did things differently than you do...he didn't make it personal, it was always about business.
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Kevin,
It is good to hear from you again. Thank you for your kind words and constructive criticism. I always take well to constructive criticism as opposed to destructive criticism which is rampant to no avail on this blog site.
I in no way tried to compare myself to the Napergate Man. I simply adopted his strategy of persistence and steadfastness. I gave him credit for attempting to copy his methods, implement them and follow his path. I truly consider him and his deeds over a decade to be ICONIC. He earned his wings in this town. I have yet to learn how to fly even though I have been trying for 3.5 years! I was simply saying I will not give up until I learn how to FLY! I hope that simplifies my comment for you.
Yes, I do agree with you that even though the Napergate Man was attacked frequently, he simply ignored the attacks and continued blasting away at City Improprieties and Corruption like there was no tomorrow. He even ignored attacks from former Mayors who are suppose to have credibility but did not in Naperville. I guess he was patient and let the courts take away their credibility. And no I do not have the Napergate Man's patience and neither do must people short of maybe HOMELESS STRIKER Mr. Huber who is closing in on the Napergate Man's 12 year PROTEST on City Hall.
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( Just to make a point Kevin, just because Mr. Huber is as determined as the Napergate Man was, it obviously does not make him the Napergate Man or even put him in the same ball park. But who is to deny that Mr. Huber is as steadfast and persistent as the Napergate Man despite his issues being cloudy and not understood by anyone. I hope you understand my point, Kevin. We can strive to develop the strong characteristics that the Napergate Man had, but that does not put us in his league. He to this date remains in a league by himself as concerns protesting "Naperville As Usual Political Corruption." I am sure you and I would agree on this point....or at least I hope we do!)
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I have tried his strategy in each thread I blog on. In due time, I the messenger get attacked instead of my message. Each and every time. I think libel laws were strong during the Napergate Era and Print Press. At least the Napergate Man did not have to deal with so many lies and libel against him. If someone libels you in a newspaper you can sue. The Napergate Man was not afraid to sue and did sue. The difference here is libeling on a blog site is not really something the courts would even consider. So we are truly in a different era than the Napergate Era and while it would be wonderful to play under those rules, I just don't think it is possible unless the Moderator demands it.
In this Blog Era, bloggers can relentlessly attack a messenger free of charge and even libel him or her. The Moderator really controls the tone of his Blog Site.
At times he halts the personal attacks and we have good debates. At other times he lets them creep in until they escalate.
It is hard to focus on facts when you may have up to 30 City Employees and City Supporters saying, s/he is lying, he/she is lying, s/he is lying, don't believe him/her. People will begin to believe their propaganda because they outnumber you. You have a herd mentality on this blog site who may be effective if not exposed.
So while I agree with you and your advice should work in a normal world, I do think in this BLOGOSPHERE, if the Moderator is going to allow people to rip into you, you have to rip back into them. You have to expose their lies and destroy their credibility and reputation before they succeed in destroying yours.
I still write many posts that are simply factually loaded with numbers from City Financial Statements. If I am not 100% clear or make an innocent mistake, the City Employees masquerading as bloggers begin to attack my credibility. I can write a 4 page post and not be 100% clear because I did not want to write a 10 page post and suddenly I am attacked for the minor ommission, ironically by those who say they never read my long posts. How ironic that those who do not read my long posts can pick up on any adjective or adverb out of place or they deem may consider a form of exaggerating in figments of their imagination.
Let me try once more to take your advice and to focus on the subjects and ignore Experienced, TB, JQP, Mark the numerous Anonymouses and their likes. Easier said than done but I will try. Another blogger or two on this same thread gave me similar advice and just told me to keep pounding away which I found very encouraging. I never expected I would ever get a STANDING OVATION but at least I got one.
If you followed this debate, I was genuinely complementing Experienced for his work for an enitre month. Giving him Kudos after Kudos. I may have simply speculated on an opinion or perceived opinion of his and he went off on me relentlessly. He was obviously looking for a window of opportunity like a tiger looks before he pounces on his prey.(I have a member of the cat family in my home now so I know how CATS think...especially BIG ONES.) This is the same guy who spent months speculating on who I may be in REAL LIFE. And accused me of being someone I was not. I hope you see his HYPOCRISY in SPECULATION RIGHTS.
I put him on the level of the Napergate Man in one of my posts and was simply trying to make a point how hard it is to squeeze information from City Hall regarding the 10 million Napergate Trial fees. My implication was that he was one of the best just like the Napergate Man who did many FOIAs through his attorneys, and even he(Experienced) probably could not obtain this information which I still believe he can not. Instead of accepting it as a challenge to obtain it if HE CAN, he went off on me. I guess he knew he could not meet the challenge since the City already stated they destroyed, lost, misplaced, don't have, never kept records or did whatever with the records. I made an assumption that if Experienced tried he would probably fail just like the Tim West and the iconic Napergate Man himself. I was not attacking him by associating him with those 2 individuals. One very Establishment and one very Non-Establishment. Just imagine if the City was hiding these records and Experienced succeeded how much EGG they would have in their faces for lying in the past. FOIAs were filed by the Napergate Man's attorneys according to Napergate Ads and the answer were no records exist. Editor Tim West followed up as he was in disbelief and he was told the same thing. It is documented in an article in the Naperville Sun which I posted the date of, on a prior blog in one of the Napergate Archives. I quoted Edtior Tim West verbatim from the Sun Article. He never challenged my quote. I doubt Sun Officials would allow me to deliberately misquote a Senior Executive on a Blog Site they own.
Experienced was looking for a fight with me.
JQP attacks all the works I do. I can have factual evidence and he constantly lies by saying I inflate and exaggerate when I do neither. I simply estimate to the best of my ability. Any estimate will either be a little low or a little high. My estimates have been both low and high. Rather than be honest he focuses on only my high estimates and claims I exaggerate and inflate. When I have low estimates he hides like chipmunk under the nearest crevice.
I have ignored TB for a long time. He said he would ignore me. Suddenly he starts wanting to communicate with me. He once said he would never comment on anything I said. Suddenly when he noticed the debate is usually on the thread I am on, he returns with his attacks.
Keep in mind the above bloggers and others who attack me debate on more than just one or two threads as I do. I never go to other threads just to harass them or debate them for egotistical purposes as they do to me. But they come to the 1 or 2 threads I debate on and even accuse me falsely of hijacking the Blog Site time and time again. How ironic, I limit myself to 1 or 2 threads, many times to an archived dead thread, and they are everywhere, and I am somehow hijacking planes.....I mean Magee's Blog Site...lol!!!
Yes, all this is nonsense, Kevin. Of course I wish it could be stopped. But it can only be stopped if the Moderator wants to stop it. Maybe he thinks if he lets the bloggers behave like Kindergarten Children, they will realize it and stop. Initially, I thought his strategy would work. Unfortunately, it has failed.(Sorry for speculating Moderator on your intentions.)
I think the problem is the taxpayers are trying to or would like to cut wages and pensions or other expenses 10% for City Departments. City Departments are use to receiving what they want at taxpayer expense. They are thus whining and crying on this blog site and unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices.
If POs and FFs are unwilling to make financial sacrifices, I really wonder if they would ever risk their lives on the streets or during a fire and forgo their Big Fat Pensions in Retirement that I see as being their main goal as employees....not SACRIFICE as in the good old days.
CIJ
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PS. As far as the library they should be charging more than $1 for NEW RELEASES OF DVDs and VIDEOS if they are going to be in that business which I oppose. Video stores were charging $4 to compete and most of them went out of business partially because they were competing against a taxpayer funded operation THAT HAS NO RENT OR OVERHEAD.(I understand technological advances were also a big factor.) Why charge $1 dollar when you could charge $3 dollars and still be a lot lower than your competitors and increase your revenue which will decrease our taxes? Not that I support the PUBLIC library competing with Private Enterprise, as shutting down 10 video stores in Naperville has affected our TAX BASE in a very negative way. It is just not fair when government competes with private business that they license in their own town!
CIJ wrote:
JQP attacks all the works I do. I can have factual evidence and he constantly lies by saying I inflate and exaggerate when I do neither. I simply estimate to the best of my ability.
You are too funny!
Citizen Investigative Journalist on October 26, 2009 4:52 PM
My implication was that he was one of the best just like the Napergate Man who did many FOIAs through his attorneys, and even he(Experienced) probably could not obtain this information which I still believe he can not. Instead of accepting it as a challenge to obtain it if HE CAN, he went off on me. I guess he knew he could not meet the challenge since the City already stated they destroyed, lost, misplaced, don't have, never kept records or did whatever with the records. I made an assumption that if Experienced tried he would probably fail just like the Tim West and the iconic Napergate Man himself.
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Experienced was looking for a fight with me.
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Interesting again. I have only posted once on this thread and I forgot to insert my user name. [The first one is mine.] But, here is my name coming up on this thread. How did that happen? How does what I said recently in the open topic thread even relate in the remote part to the library. The tirade against me again detracts from the discussion about the library budget. It makes the conversation revolve around you and not around the library. But it's not about the library is it? It's always about you.
Please, it's your infatuation with the attorney fees on the Esmail cases and that has nothing to do with me. I have never discussed Mr. Esmail or his cases. If you want the information, use your investigative journalist skills and go and get it. Don't imply or infer or try to goad me into fighting your battles. You didn't say that I probably couldn't do it. You said that I was unable to uncover the information. If you want the text of the FOIA requests that you should submit to get behind the city's accounting methods, just ask me and I'll give them to you. You can then submit the request and poor over the information you get to extract the items that interest you. I don't have the time to fight this issue for you. The FOIA requests that I submitted were on topics that interested me personally. This one does not.
Went to the Nichols Library on Sunday. Had to wait in line for a parking space; had to wait in line to check out. The place was jumping - kids, teens, parents, seniors - all kinds of people reading, doing research, just hanging around - enjoying the best fruits of our tax dollars - no matter what anyone may say. As for "fat", I saw 7 employees working - 3 at the circulation desk, 2 in research, and 2 stocking shelves. Were there more? Possibly, but thos I saw were all working, helping patrons, etc. The library is a wonderful thing. Just think, with out the library and it's archives, where would someone go to read all about St. Napergate Man. You just have to have loose screws and burnt bearings to want to cut the library.
Book Lover,
I have to agree with you to a great extent. I see less excess fat in the library than anywhere else.
Keep in mind it is difficult for me to call for cuts in say police and fire without calling for cuts in all departments equally. If I do, I will be attacked viciously as a Police and FF hater. So I want my calls for cuts to be fair and if cuts are impossible in the library or other departments I have no problem.
I think City Officials are pressuring for cuts in the library so they can continue to have their Big Fat Salaries, Benefits and Pensions at the partial expense of the library and its employees. This is the number ONE library in the country so it must be efficient and productive to have reached those heights.
Yes, I did spend many many nights in the library. Without extremely helpful and knowledgeable librarians, I could have never been able to successfully research the iconic Napergate Man. I remember the first day of my research I could not find the old Naperville Sun newspapers and a friendly librarian took time to walk me right to them and explained to me how to most efficiently search them.
Even though I recall the Napergate Man having a Web Site very early on in the Internet Age it appears he closed it with his retirement. It seems like he wanted to put an end to a chapter of his life that was long and stressful, lasting almost 19 years in battles with City Hall.
I have the utmost respect for our library and its employees. They are as professional and hard working as they come.
But I do agree with a 10% unemployment rate and a 17% underemployment rate, there is no excuse for them to be paying premium wages on Sundays or OT at any time. So there is room for improvement in the library.
The NPD and NFD have over $5.5 million in OT. This is uncalled for and should be eliminated before the library is asked to cut in areas other than premium pay and OT pay. Also building inspectors should be laid off before any library employees are laid off. Development is at a COMPLETE HALT in Naperville....we don't need the same level of staffing in that department that we had when we had 5-10% annual growth and subdivision after subdivision being built.
Thank you for your eyewitness report. We need more reports like yours from observation rather than nonsensical keyboarding.
I went to visit the Edward's Emergency area tonight to refute some dishonest claims that 5 Naperville Ambulances are there constantly at night unloading patients. I did not see one or any in the last 2 months between midnight and 1:30am when I am frequently there to pick up a nurse friend who had her car repossesed due to severe economic conditions.
Thank you,
CIJ
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PS. It is nice to see a post on this thread after 8 days of inactivity that I pointed out today on another thread in hopes that someone like you would post. Thanks for posting! We need to continue to help Moderator Magee build up this Naperville Sun Blog Site to ensure its success. This blog site could one day be just as important as Nichols Library.
Book Lover
Glad you enjoy the library. It is overly expensive, and needs to trim back. Perhaps they could charge one dollar per hour for computer internet service. How about a one dollar charge for each item checked out. User fees are very practical. What individuals pay in taxes to fund the library are way to high.
Also if you enjoy the library so much, make a donation to the library endowment fund.
CIJ Wrote: I did not see one or any in the last 2 months between midnight and 1:30am when I am frequently there to pick up a nurse friend who had her car repossesed due to severe economic conditions.
was the nurse named Ameena?
Let us keep the facts straight.
Ameena was studying to be a nurse and did all the research at the Nichols Libary regarding the Napergate Man.
I can not believe how poor comprehension and memory is of those who read NON-FICTION NOVELS.
LOL,
CIJ
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PS. It is not easy to write a book. Ask any librarian at Nichols Library what it takes to publish a book. At least I got one book published that continues to command an incredible amount of commentary and reviews a year later. How many bloggers can write such a controversial book? Most have a hard time writing one sentence and it is usually vague.
Just to refresh your memory, Ameena left this blog site to concentrate her efforts on writing a real book about the ICONIC NAPERGATE MAN. Expect her book to be a Best Seller on the New York Times and available at libraries and shelves of bookstores nationwide soon. She is one sharp cookie. I love her to death.
Order your book on NapergateMan.com. The cost is only $19.99 and $6.95 for shipping and handling. No refunds under any circumstance. All purchases are final. All profits will be donated to help defray the $160.8 million in deficits and losses that the City of Naperville has sustained mostly this last fiscal year. Order multiple books if you truly want to help your City become full funded again and in the black for the first time in memory.
You will read how the Napergate Man warned the City of Naperville about its spendaholic habits in the 90s. How the City of Naperville did not listen then as it is not listening today? All 44 Napergate ads will be re-published in this hard cover book You will be able to view detailed graphs of city departments showing waste then as they continue to show waste today.
You will be able to read about how the City of Naperville covered up the 10 million dollar cost of the Napergate Trials just as it attempted to cover up the $20.5 million pension fund losses before a sharp Forensic Accountant caught them red handed with their hands in the cookie jar, before they could bury them in a grave site, next to the Napergate Trial costs at the Naperville Cemetry not too far away from City Hall.
History will show you NOTHING HAS CHANGED and teach you NOT TO EXPECT CHANGE unless you PROTEST LOUDLY!
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Same posting twice, and not a nibble? Too bad CIJ, guess no one wants to hijack the library thread over to Napergate. Oops, it think I just threw up a little in my mouth.