A forum for comments about Naperville news and issues.

Council votes to raise property tax rate

| 639 Comments | No TrackBacks

In a close 5-4 vote Monday night, the Naperville City Council agreed to raise the property tax rate from 0.7167 percent to 0.7367 percent.

The city has in the past approved a property tax rate increase and then lowered it when assessments are released, and officials claim the same thing will happen this time. The city plans to collect more than $50.6 million in property taxes next year and only approved the higher rate in case assessments fall, to ensure city services are funded.

This is necessary because a property tax levy must be approved well in advance of the budget year's beginning.

Councilwoman Judy Brodhead said the assessment was much more important to a person's tax payment than the tax rate, but Councilman Bob Fieseler objected to a tax that is impossible for a struggling property owner to avoid, unlike a sales tax.

Still, for owners hoping a drop in property values would mean a drop in taxes, it would seem the city is planning for a way around that contingency.

What do you think? Is this just business as usual or do you object?

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1847791,Naperville-OKs-tax-rate-hike_na102609.article

No TrackBacks

TrackBack URL: http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/6751

639 Comments

I think we all know where this thread is going to head. I feel a very long post coming soon. Wait for it...wait for it....

T.B.

I can't believe the city council voted to raise taxes at this time. Unbelievable! The article fails to highlight the fact that although some services were cut at the library and Naper Settlement, pensions are increasing. Most of the people in this community do not have pensions. Why should I pay for the pensions of others? Pensions are bankrupting the country! Thank you city council for raising my taxes again and making it impossible for me to stay in Naperville or sell my home. I am just sick about this.

What is the sound of CIJ's head exploding?

O-k, I've always believed that raising taxes is all these stuffed shirts know how to do. No surprise here!

Same old same old.

I object because like all politicians, ours here in Naperville don't have the intestinal fortitude to actually make real changes during these turbulent times. It is easier to tax us more than to actually make real, hurting , yet necessary cuts.

Our city's growth is stagnant. We are losing major employers (really, how much longer will Alcatel be here at all?) Why is the City's planning group still so large? Why is the group of inspoectors, etc., still so large?

All our fiddling councilmen want to do is ignore reality and hear a sassy tune!

"I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

Isn't this an increase of $20 on a $300K house? For $100K valuation * .7167% = $716.70 100K * .7367% = $736.70. People are going to raise a stink over $20 or $30??

It is a slippery slope...for me it’s about principle...why look outside before looking inside...there is a lot of room to cut staff and programs before asking the taxpayers to foot the bill regardless how small that amount may be. This is also not the end, it’s just the beginning...the council is looking at creating a sales tax as well as raising the gas tax in Naperville. When will it end??

The big test will be the levy ordinance that they have to adopt by the second Tuesday in December. That is what is actually going to drive the tax bills and tax rate. What they did last nite was set the allowable parameters for that ordinance. If they adopt (or even propose) a levy ordinance that has been inflated beyond the budget and/or cuts that have been approved, then they have breached their relationship with the tax payers.

If you don't go to the hearing and voice your opinions, don't complain when the tax bills hit your mailboxes in May.

Also remember, that due to problems with the budget that will affect the levy, you have the ability to protest your taxes this year. If enough people do so, the council will get the idea that the people will not tolerate government conducted behind closed doors.

Taxes,Taxes,Taxes !!!! What is wrong with the City ?? Most of us have had to cut back in one way or another but not the City. What a bunch of arrogant clowns. If services have to be cut, then cut like everyone else. I wish I could go to my boss and increase my wages due to rising costs. Not !

You councilmen are disgusting. Take , Take, Take. It is very evident that really don't care about the residents of Naperville, only your egos and your own adjendas !!

Anybody got any tar and feathers ???

By T.B. on October 27, 2009 6:40 AM
I think we all know where this thread is going to head. I feel a very long post coming soon. Wait for it...wait for it....

T.B.
____________________________________________________________________

TB, its not 3am yet, some people who work hard at journalism need to sleep in. I to, can't wait for a gigantic repeat of prior post. CSI, I guess the city wasnt watching every word you typed at 3am and went ahead without your permission.

Of course this is business as usual. Council does not see beyond raising property taxes. I applaud the Councilmen who opposed this increase. I would have preferred to see more budget cuts, yes even ones that the general public will notice. There would have been no uproar -- we all are cutting back at home! I object to the increase because property values have dropped. I realize the increase is minor, but it is an increase nevertheless. Why hasn't "government" realized that increasing taxes now (when wages are stagnant or for some no wages at all) only makes us have less discretionary spending money -- less sales tax revenues. That's why Council didn't raise the sales tax rate -- property taxes you've got to pay -- sales taxes you have a choice in how much you spend. It seems to me it would have been fairer that if all budget cutting failed to fill the budget gap, an increase in sales tax would have been the way to go. That way those that are struggling wouldn't be forced to struggle even more -- those that are not would still be able to spend and put more tax dollars in City coffers. Shame on you Council, people are hurting right now and you have just added to the wound!

Reading the article makes me think what the reporter meant to say was "... Council agreed the property tax rate could increase next year, just in case property values plummet". Original, as written, is at bottom.

I'm thinking that the city wants the ability to increase the tax rate (from .7167 to .7367) in case the total assessed value of all properties decline, in order to take in the same amount of taxes as last year. Knowing how the quoted $50.6 million compares to what was collected last year, as well as the assumptions used to generate the tax rate figures, would clarify if this represents an increase in taxes or not, as it is noteworthy that four councilmen voted against the proposal. Were they trying to keep the rate the same, even if the total assessed valuation declines and causes the city to collect less in taxes, or is this a real tax increase they were voting against? The article isn't clear.


From the Sun article: A divided Naperville City Council agreed property taxes could increase next year, just in case property values plummet.

Naperville plans to collect more than $50.6 million in property taxes next year, which results in an estimated tax rate of 0.7167 percent. But at a workshop Monday the City Council agreed 5-4 it should approve a higher tax rate — 0.7367 percent — to make sure budgeted city services are funded.

Did anyone read Tim West's column regarding municipal employee insurance rates and the amount of money that is subsidized for each employee? If my memory serves me correctly, 90% of the monthly premium is subsidized. And, where does the subsidy come from? That's right. From our taxes.

I don't know about you but my health care costs continue to rise year over year. My employer doesn't subsidize my premium costs to the tune of 90%.

What about looking at that particular line item and see if we can get money from changing the subsidy, which in turn, could benefit our taxes?

I don't know how the City Council can, in good conscience, raise property taxes with the current economic situation going on.

All I can say is "I TOLD YOU SO."

They basically issued themselves another CREDIT CARD without our permission. They are like little kids who can not control themselves in a candy store. They are like drunken sailors who can not control themselves in a Gentlemen's Club when they are off shore. They are like some college students who binge drink until they run out of funds. They are FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE to be politically correct.

This is why we need to abolish HOME RULE. They would have to limit themselves to 5% increases instead of credit card after credit card, year after year.

I even think 5% is way too much. Last year the drunken sailors increased the City Portion of my real estate tax bill 10.89%. That should have been ENOUGH for 2 years.

Based on what I am reading here, they are waking up the TAXPAYERS better than I could have ever awakened them. Sometimes the taxpayers have to feel it before they join our Annual Tax Protest on April 15 at City Hall. I think they are feeling it finally.

Forcing residents to come up with money they don't have is forcing them into FORECLOSURE.

What is wrong with closing alternating FIRE STATIONS every other night which would not only be a 10% savings but a 20% savings since each FF would only have to work 40 hours per week instead of 54 hours per week. WE DON'T NEED 10 Fire Stations when everyone is sleeping and the roads are almost deserted especially on Sunday through Thurday. Since the roads are deserted, the existing FFs can reach their destinations 5 times faster. This is common sense. If they can get to their destinations 5 times faster one has to conclude we will even have better service than in the day time when the roads are backed up EVERYWHERE! If necessary, maybe we can even have some volunteer FFs to assist the PROs at night.

This would certainly eliminate the OT in the FD that use to be a touch lower than the POLICE OT which remains $3,000,000 annually. Have not checked it recently.

Don't give me this baloney about a minute counts. I aready explained if a minute counts let us have 30 fire stations on another thread. No one wants 30 Fire Stations at a cost of $2100 dollars per household because a minute may count once every 100 years.

Our City Council has no common sense! They are stuck thinking in OLD BOXES.

Why can't we keep the 14 police officers who show up in TRAFFIC COURT home in the first court session and avoid OT. Every judge allows a continuance. If a nut case wants to fight a $75 dollar traffic ticket bring in the individual cop for the trial at the CONTINUED DATE. Not all 14 of them to sit down as POTTED PLANTS smoking away our TAX DOLLARS.

Why can't the school resource cops relieve the OT detectives instead of riding bikes needlessly in the downtown on DEAD summer weeknights? If you only need a few cops on busy fall and spring weekends to control the busy crowds, then you only need a few less cops to control non-existent crowds on DEAD SUMMER WEEK NIGHTS.

Ok, most of you have read my numerous solutions in the last 3.5 years. My solutions are practical. All City Officials can do to rebut them is yell FIRE in movie theators. All they can do is allege CIJ is crazy just like they once also alleged the ICONIC NAPERGATE MAN who exposed their incompetence and inefficiences was crazy...lol...!

Oak Brook and Hinsdale are wealthier than we are. They did not increasse taxes. They laid off POs and FFs. Are they risking their McMansions? What do they know that we don't know?

Or maybe they simply realize that a family is more likely to be left HOMELESS due to a FORECLOSURE than a FIRE in these depressionary times! Now how logical is that???

It is nice to see you nice folks are waking up. Don't believe a word that City Officials disguised as bloggers are saying about me.

I am here trying to help my fellow Napervillians....my neighbors....my friends. My mortgages are fully paid and I am personally at no risk for FORECLOSURE or BANKRUPTCY.

I am not doing this for selfish reasons. The father of my son's best friend lost his IT job almost 9 months ago. He is reaching the end of the rope. When he heard about this tax increase, I will not tell you the words he said. They are unprintable!

A colleague of his committed suicide last week at age 44 when he lost his job in nearby Lisle, most probably due to the stress of the bills that await him despite being unemployed. Higher taxes stress residents in tough economic times. While the fire fighters are worried about saving this invisible child in a fire some time in the next 100 years, what about saving her visible Dad who just left an orphan behind.

The City Council showed me they are a bunch of INSENSITIVE human beings. Of course they read this blog site but they don't care. They are selfish.

City Hall Officials are also selfish. The Beneifts Manager appeared before the City Council asking that DENTAL BENEFITS be increased along with more taxpayer money to pay for it.

City Manager Doug Krieger sat there appearing to nod in approval instead of DISGUST at her REQUEST. Why did he not suggest that City Employees pay 50% of THEIR dental premiums instead of only 10% to help us taxpayers out?

He appears to be another ZERO in the long line of Managers we have had since the Napergate Era.

I call for his immediate and unconditional RESIGNATION. The man proved he has loose bearings and missing screws when he allowed his Benefits Manager to ask for a better and more expensive Dental Benefits Package in this diastrous economy at a televised City Council Meeting. They are shameless as Diane G. stated above. Very shameless! 5 of them appear to have NO CONSCIENCE! CM Doug Krause included. He is as phony as they come before election time. Please stop voting for him! He is DECEPTIVE! He dumped all the ideals of the Napergate Man that he once endorsed! He has lost it!

Please continue waking up my sleepy fellow Napervillians and join ME on the banks of the W. Dupage River on April 15. Don't be afraid of those snipers stationed on the roof top of City Hall collecting OT. They must be stopped! We must be HEARD!

Thanks!

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

Please notice as usual I don't attack any specific blogger with my first post on a thread. I discuss the ISSUE ON YOUR THREAD.

A few bloggers were already in ambush on this thread before I even posted.

Watch and see how they will come out like mosquitos out of everywhere to attempt to sting me. It never fails.

If you want this blog site to be something different and more serious, you don't have to POST their COMMENTS since they have been warned numerous times this is NOT about CIJ but about CCH which stands for "Corrupiton in City Hall."

Please help keep this thread focused on the rascals in City Hall who are squeezing the taxpayers and acting like the outlaw Somalia Pirates.

Thank you very much in advance for your help if you choose to provide it.

By CIJ "CM Doug Krause included. He is as phony as they come before election time. Please stop voting for him! He is DECEPTIVE! He dumped all the ideals of the Napergate Man that he once endorsed! He has lost it!"

Can someone define libel and explain legally why comments like these do not meet the definition. Just asking.

CIJ...
If you cannot afford an extra 20-30 bucks-maybe naperville isnt the place for you.

First, I don't think the property taxes in Naperville should be raised ...... this may well be a very small amount, but even that small amount is too much for many of us who are struggling to make it from Pay Check to Pay Check.

Second, yes, the City absolutely needs to cut the excess fat. That HAS GOT to be done before raising taxes should even be considered!

Third, before I am accused of being a Firefighter or Police officer hiding out from CIJ, I don't work for the City. but I do have a neighbor who does, and sweeping statements about how ALL city employees have been getting these big raises and living high on taxpayer money I know to be completely untrue. If you want to talk about the unions, or the management - go for it - but please don't make the mistake of believing that is the situation for every city worker. It's much like thinking the teller at the bank is getting rich off of your investments the same way the Executives with million dollar bonus deals do. Blanket statements are always dangerous and blatantly untrue.

There is one circumstance I would be willing to pay additional fee's for however. If someone found a way to make CIJ step back, take a breath, and get over his own importance ..... stop rambling on like he is the leader of something - that would be worth a considerable investment.

Finally, I am all for letting the City leaders know that higher taxes are not an option. Make them cut the duplication and excess from the budget until there is nothing left to cut ..... then consider which services are mandatory, and which are nice but not required ..... I hope that the same people who are screaming the loudest wouldn't be the one's whining the loudest when they didn't get their leaves picked up or their sidewalk cracks fixed as fast as they used to.

This is confusing or maybe I am just really naïve, but in order to be on the city council you need to be a resident of Naperville. The property tax affects all Naperville landowners. Doesn’t it stand to reason that by raising property taxes, the council would have to pay this tax also? If you were on the city council wouldn’t you look at every alternative before having to pay more in taxes yourself? Is our city council so ignorant that they don’t know better? If so, why are they continually reelected? No one likes to pay taxes, but isn’t it our right to not vote for them next election?

Here's your proof, Moderator Magee.

The last 3 bloggers before the last one decided to mention me and made me an issue instead of focusing on those who INCREASED their taxes....the culprits in City Hall.

As far as "Exhausted" who wants me to focus on non-union instead of union, did I not read somewhere today in the Sun or on this blog site, that the City decided to give the non-union City employees the same rich benefits as the union City Employees. This is an example of someone who speaks before he properly researches.

Don't they all ONLY have to pay only 10% of medical and dental premiums or is Editor Tim West also distorting right now in his latest column of today???

I am right on the money. I am going after all of them equally.
I want every department to cut 10% with no exceptions.


I am prejudice against no one and no department. They all probably have excess fat after all these years and have to cut 10% or more out without exception. In the second round we need to focus on the BUILDING DEPARTMENT and see why their level of staffing remains the same as in the BOOM YEARS when building is almost at a STANDSTILL as banks have just about FROZEN the concept of LOANING.

I have apartment dwellers who will never tolerate a rent increase so I have to absorb all these increased taxes. I just want to make sure City Officials understand this. If the value of my home goes down in price, then I expect my taxes to go down and not up. That means a City Official can buy a home cheaper so why should he get a raise. He should receive a PAY-ROLL DEDUCTION followed by A PENSION-ROLL REDUCTION. What is wrong with that LOGIC! And while we are at it, don't forget to charge him/her more than 10% of his health and dental benefits.

This means his mortgage will be cheaper due to the lower cost of his house....interest rates are the lowest in half a century....and his TAXES should also be cheaper if City Officials had their screws fastened on properly and knew how to cut expesnses and excess FAT!


========================================================================================================================================

Double Dipping Poster Boy Asst. City Manager Robert Marshall is now non-Union and hitting us every which way possible. He is collecting a 95k pension with annual increases of 3% while fully employed by us Naperville Suckers for another 150k or so and then to add insult to injury is building a second pension while employed. And he may be able to receive Social Security in addition to his 2 PENSIONS if Drew Peterson is receiving it unless Bolingbrook and Naperville have different pension rules.(See Sun today.) And despite hammering us every way possible he also receives 10% medical, 10% dental, 10% eyewear, and even life insurance. Can anyone imagine that our City Council considered this gentleman who has LEGALLY tried to screw the taxpayers to his benefit as a City Manager who would presumably care about taxapayers. Can someone get me an ASPIRIN! I truly have a MASSIVE HEADACHE. This craziness is sickening! I am just telling it to you without SALT and PEPPER like everyone else is. I want you to undestand what is happening in StepFord Wives Town, USA where they want to robot you into thinking they are watchhing out for you. Don't believe that nonsense. They are watching out for the day that Big Fat Pension arrives!


========================================================================================================================================

Why are you folks not understanding why I AM OUTRAGED at our CITY OFFICIALS?

I just posted on another thread that Sgt. Drew Peterson of Bolingbrook is receiving both a PENSION and SOCIAL SECURITY to the tune of 9k a month. I was not kidding when I told you our corrupt system allows these police officers and fire fighters to retire at age 52 and smoke cigars in rocking chairs while the rest of us are breaking our backs to support them into very old age. Yes, we civilians have to wait till AGE 70 to get full SS Benefits that are a fraction of Pension Benefits. It has all been documented gradually on this Napergate Blog Site.....(sorry Napergate Man I just had to plagiarize you for once). I know this is Magee's Blog Site but Napergate sounds appropriate as we rip into this City Corruption jointly and soon hopefully with ONE THUNDERING VOICE.

How is that after we were told by the Friend of the Fire Fighter that this is not possible?

And DP never had a chance to hit the civilian sector yet. He went from Sgt. to Media Clown and straight to Jail.

Anyway don't accuse me of trying to be the center of attention when I simply expressed my very strong feelings about HIGH TAXATION as a result of GOVERNMENT WASTE! You make me the center of attention by blogging about ME instead of your City Officials who are robbing you blind. Why take the pressure off of them by blogging about ME!?
Do you think that is what I want? You are absolutely wrong! I want a CHOKEHOLD ON CITY OFFICIALS until they raise the WHITE FLAG and surrender their CORRUPT and unacceptable ways of "BUSINESS AS USUAL."

I never wanted to be a ONE HANDLE BLOGGER.

I feared this would happen.

I was forced into being a ONE HANDLE BLOGGER.

You REAP WHAT YOU SOW, I guess the saying goes.

You can not second guess yourselves at this late stage of the game. I did what you all wanted. Understand the power is in the MESSAGE and has nothing to do with the PERSONA of the MESSENGER!

Accept me as a STRONGLY OPINIONATED BLOGGER. That is my FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. And I am simply exercising it to hold my City Officials accountable for their FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITY.

If you don't like my opinions, fine.

Attack them all you want but don't accuse me of wanting to be the CENTER of ATTENTION because I feel an obligation to write about incompetence and ineffieciencies at City Hall. Because I feel an obligation to wake the sleepy taxpayer up. Please note how s/he on this new thread is gradually seeing the light and waking up. Even Editor Tim West has awoken after a 36 year bear hibernation extravaganza. Maybe there is hope on the horizon.

Was the Napergate Man trying to be the center of attention when he blasted away Full Page Napergate ad after Full Page Napergate ad against those in City Hall he "perceived" as being incompetent and corrupt? He was truly fighting a cause and never cared to disclose his name....not once except when he had to quote the Appellate Judges who mentioned him by name when he beat City Hall by a 3-0 decision in the Appellate Court. He was relentless and steadfast despite similar allegations being leveled at him weekly in the PRINT MEDIA. How soon you all forget? It has been less than a decade that he retired? Only 8 years ago to be exact when he ended with that victory at Spring Green against Brestal and the City Council he controlled at the time. HE WON BECAUSE HE SUCCEEDED IN RAISING HELL. He did not talk softly to City Officials when he took the podium. He spoke his mind bravely and loudly.....and he had no trouble bringing 400 protestors with him to City Hall or to protests on City Streets.


We need to understand what he understood which is that talking softly to City Officials does not work. You need to be their faces. Maybe someone should find out if it is legal to throw rotten eggs at them in City Chambers so we can wake them up since they apparently can not smell hot brewed coffee.

I am doing something similar but Anonymously on a smaller scale. Like I said the Napergate Man truly earned his wings and I am still trying to fly into City Hall and peek. But I will eventually get a good peek and I promise I will tell you what I see. I can promise you the skeltons there are frightening. It should be a Haunted House for Halloween. That is how scary that place is.

Maybe one day I will earn my WINGS. I promise you I will not stop trying.

CIJ

I think it stands to reason that with property values having declined to the tune of 14-20% that our assessed valuation should decline as well. But I am no expert. Also, why should the City expect to receive the same amount of taxes next year as this year? The economy is down. I believe my income is down this year as well. I agree with a previous poster that it wouldn't be so bad paying additional taxes if we really felt that there was no excess fat in City government. And personally, I did not vote to reelect the incumbent councilmen. I just wish more voters turned out for elections and had voted the incumbents out as well.

I'm with Magoo, the difference in tax rates on a 600K house is $40 bucks. To go on and on like the world is going to end is silly.

I get excellent city services, below rate electricity through the city owned electricity dept, an award winning Library, the riverwalk, I could go on.

I propose a new rule on the blog. Posters can not keep repeating the same post, over and over and over and over and over and over.......

Diane G on October 27, 2009 9:44 PM

I think it stands to reason that with property values having declined to the tune of 14-20% that our assessed valuation should decline as well. But I am no expert.

-------------------------

Don't count on it at least in Naperville Township. Despite the drastic decline in property values over the last 3 years, the Naperville Township assessor still plans a small increase in property assessed values this year. If you live in Naperville Twp, check out his website to see what's happening with your own property. Mine is up even though I anticipated a decline.

http://www.napervilletownship.com/SD/Naperville/content/DetailSectionMain.aspx?ID=3

If you live in Lisle, DuPage or Wheatland Townships, I am not sure what's in store there.

Everyone should take a look at the City's materials regarding the tax levy. They are asking for $1 million more. But they are forcing the libraries and Naper Settlement to spend reserves (one time item) to take another $1.2 million. The net impact is an increase of over 6% to the City next year.

What is unclear, are they done at $50 million in property taxes? If EAV's hold up (and no Diane, they will not go down 14 to 20%), will they go for more?

In the presentation, they note that they have a $10 million problem to still address. More property taxes could be one tactic.

Lastly, how come Naperville did not support Arlington Heights and Mount Prospect to change state law to phase out police and fire pensions? How come Junior Krieger does not propose a salary freeze and ten to fifteen furlough days (including himself) to reduce the problems.

Not one mention of either of these two comments. Hold your checkbook open, more taxes are to come.

Experienced,


At the September meeting of the Naperville Area Homeowners Confederation, Naperville Township assessor Warren Dixon spoke. You can read a quick "Taxes 101" summary I wrote of the meeting here:
http://www.napervillehomeowners.com/NAHC/NewsDoc/NewsDoc11333.pdf

To answer your question about assessments, property values and hence assessments peaked in 2007. But you have to realize that the assessment on our tax bill reflects a three year rolling average, meaning that last year's tax bill used 2005-2006-2007 property values. If you read the summary you will see that 2008 property sales are lower than 2007, but as the 2008 sales data is replacing 2005 sales for next years bill (and 2008 could be higher than 2005 was), the average could actually be higher than last year, as apparently it is in your case.

The good news perhaps is that with a .01 CPI, the actual increase in property taxes for everything except the City of Naperville, will be flat. Assuming that your percentage increase in assessed valuation is the same as for the total combined assessed valuations for the township, your tax rates will decline to balance out the assessed valuation increase, for a net .01 increase in taxes.

And, as I wrote above, I'm not sure that the City of Naperville actually voted to increase taxes. The .2 increase in rate may be insurance in case total assessed values for a given township declines.

Stormynights,

The city council members are not stupid. If what some of these bloggers are saying is true that the tax increase is only $40 dollars on a 600k home they have reason to vote in tax increases to keep their city benefits rolling. Cutting their health benefits in half could cost them $8000 dollars if they have a family. So increasing taxes for them is like insuring their benefits. It is selfish. They are not representing taxpayers. They are representing themselves.

City Council Members, I believe get the same great beneifts package as the City Employees and only have to work a few hours a month. Sometimes they cancel city council meetings and only truly work one day a month and maybe take a few phone calls a month. CM Bob was begging bloggers to show up in his office to talk to him. He did not sound like a man with a line of people waiting to talk to him. He seemed desperate to meet any constituent from boredom and lonliness.

Why would a CM mind paying $40 extra dollars to keep his nearly $16,000 year medical plan rolling. His nearly $1000 a year dental beneifts rolling. His eye glass premiums rolling. His prescriptions rolling. His life insurance rolling. And keep in mind they even get some kind of Pension Plan but it may not be Big and Fat like those down in Springfield or at the Naperville Police and Fire Departments.

You are getting nothing from this increase in taxes which is the first of many I suspect. This was just a test of the waters to gauge public response. If you will, it was a trial balloon. That is why it is important we RAISE OUR VOICES and express our DISPLEASURE.

We must BEAT THE DRUMS! Very loudly!

CIJ

By Diane G on October 27, 2009 9:44 PM
I think it stands to reason that with property values having declined to the tune of 14-20% that our assessed valuation should decline as well. But I am no expert. Also, why should the City expect to receive the same amount of taxes next year as this year? The economy is down.

========================================================================================================================================

You may be no expert but what you say is logical and reasonable...and what should happen in a just world.

Yes, assessed valuation should decline. I called my township last year and they said since they only assess once every 3 years there was no decline that year when I expected a decline. They told me when an assessment year takes place and the property values are down, the assessment will be lowered. Yeah, sure!

When I asked them about the tax rate they became defensive and evasive. These government agencies always use the tax rate to offset decreases in assessed valuation. That is probably why they created these fluctuating tax rates.

The bottom line is there is only one way for your taxes to truly go down. And that is for City Hall to reduce its Operating Budget from say $400 million to $380 million. At that point you will see a true reduction in your real estate tax bill of $400 dollars based on 50,000 homes in Naperville.

If they don't cut costs at City Hall, your real estate taxes will always increase especially since the town is nearly 99% built up. When the mult-million McMansions were being built everywhere in Naperville our tax rate and taxes should have gone down as these McMansions were contrbuting disproportionately in a positive way to the overall city tax base.

But our Drunken Fiscally Irresponsible Sailors in City Hall found a way to squander all that extra money and then some.

I have been voting for City Council Members for years. They talk the talk during election time but when they enter City Hall they march the march that the Establishment wants them to march. They are roboted just like in that Stepford Wives movie.

If you think you can get trustworthy city council members elected, keep dreaming. The Napergate Man got many ELECTED and they even turned around and stabbed him in the back....John Rosanova comes to mind. The minute Mr. Brestal offered his son a job at his law firm he dumped the Napergate Man who endorsed him in his full page ads, and became a Brestal-Establishment loyalist. Aristocratic elitists as Mr. Scott Huber, the Homeless Striker calls them.

CM Rosanova had no conscience. He followed the dollar bills. Do you really think he was going to mess around with the Brestal Law Firm after they gave his son a near 100k position? Margo Ely never studied about conflicts of interest in law school, apparently, so he continued voting on the developments in town of which Brestal controlled up to 99% of through his law firm.

I am sure you know what I am talking about Diane G.

Keep up your great posts!

CIJ

By Enough on October 27, 2009 11:18 PM
Lastly, how come Naperville did not support Arlington Heights and Mount Prospect to change state law to phase out police and fire pensions? How come Junior Krieger does not propose a salary freeze and ten to fifteen furlough days (including himself) to reduce the problems?


========================================================================================================================================


Shame on them if what you say about not supporting Arlington Heights and Mount Prospect is true? With a runaway $126.2 million Accrued Actuarial Pension Liability Deficit that even gets worse in boom economic times, they should have supported PENSION ABOLISHMENT.

As far as Junior Krieger, he has been fighting for increases in Dental Benefits for himself and his staff at a greater cost to the Naperville Taxpayer. I have asked for his UNCONDITIONAL RESIGNATION!

No parachute to boot for him please, so he can be like former City Manager Peter Burchard.

CIJ

By Mr.77 on October 27, 2009 11:05 AM
Taxes,Taxes,Taxes !!!! What is wrong with the City ?? Most of us have had to cut back in one way or another but not the City. What a bunch of arrogant clowns. If services have to be cut, then cut like everyone else. I wish I could go to my boss and increase my wages due to rising costs. Not !

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The city is very very sick. They are FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE ARROGANT CLOWNS.

It is nice to see you on BOARD!

Here is a STANDING OVATION for you and all the great posts today.

I knew you would all be coming eventually .....but not quite this soon.

Welcome Aboard! I really need all your help in this Mother of Battles for Sanity.

CIJ

By Karen K. on October 27, 2009 1:03 PM
Did anyone read Tim West's column regarding municipal employee insurance rates and the amount of money that is subsidized for each employee? If my memory serves me correctly, 90% of the monthly premium is subsidized. And, where does the subsidy come from? That's right. From our taxes.


========================================================================================================================================

Yes, I read it after you pointed it out. Thank you! He has finally come out of his 36 year hibernation.

A standing ovation for him, too, after 36 years of being in a SELF-INDUCED COMA! It is great to see him come to life for the first time. I honestly thought he was hopeless and gave up on him. He proved to still have a pulse. May God strengthen his pulse and heart and keep him with us.

Yes, Karen K you are catching on and right on the MONEY.

That's right! The subsidy comes from your TAXES.

The only ones supporting higher taxes on this thread are City Officials in disguise as bloggers. Don't be fooled....if the comment makes no sense it probably makes no sense. If someone wants his taxes raised it is because he is benefitting at least 10 fold from the increase in taxes.

Otherwise people with loose bearings who want others to have 90% subsidies while they mortgage the house to buy an equivalent 16k policy for health, 1k policy for dental and to help pay higher taxes for the CITY EMPLOYEE SUBSIDIES! I don't know the numbers for eyewear, prescription or life insurance but what is good about this blog site is everything eventually gets uncovered as more and more people do research to help out the rest of us.

And a KUDOS and a STANDING OVATION TO YOU, KAREN K!

CIJ

Since my posts are invariably buried by she who won't be named, I again ask the below question.


Here is the quote:
"CM Doug Krause included. He is as phony as they come before election time. Please stop voting for him! He is DECEPTIVE! He dumped all the ideals of the Napergate Man that he once endorsed! He has lost it!"

Can someone define libel and explain legally why comments like these do not meet the definition. Not that I am a Krause supporter since I have never voted for him. Just asking.

Yes, alas, my assessed value is up as well. I purchased in March 2007. I paid $500 more than the person I bought from (who had purchased in 2006)and at what I thought was a fair price considering the market was starting to decline. However, end units (I live in a townhouse) in my subdivision have dropped in price approximately 14% since 2008. That is below the price paid by the previous owner in 2006. So I had expected my assessed value to drop to below the 2006 level. It did not. As a matter of fact my assessed value is up 10% from 2006. There is definitely something not right here. So no, I am not upset about $40 per year in increased property taxes. But since my property is worth less than it was in 2006 I would have expected my taxes to drop. Sorry, government, you'll have to cut your expenses more too. I can live without a crack in the sidewalk getting fixed right away. Maybe every road in this town doesn't have to be paved this year. I can live without free leaf pick up. Honestly, I don't see much in the way of City services. Yes, the PD and FD respond. Does the City plow my street? No. Do they pick up the leaves in my subdivision? No. Does the Park District (and I realize this is a different government entity than the City) even deliver their program books to my doorstep like they do single family homes? No. But please, dear Government, let me continue to send you more and more tax money even though my asset is worth less and less. Great. Something to look forward to!

And I’m voting to throw the worthless SOB’s out of office so fast it will make your head spin.

CIJ, you come across as condescending to other posters. Maybe more people would support you if you're weren't so irritating.

A post earlier in this blog questioned how or if a person can receive both a pension and social security.

Posted CIJ October 27, 2009 9:29 PM
“I just posted on another thread that Sgt. Drew Peterson of Bolingbrook is receiving both a PENSION and SOCIAL SECURITY to the tune of 9k a month.

“How is that after we were told by the Friend of the Fire Fighter that this is not possible?

“And he may be able to receive Social Security in addition to his 2 PENSIONS if Drew Peterson is receiving it unless Bolingbrook and Naperville have different pension rules.(See Sun today.)”

I remember the answer given, almost a year ago, by a firefighter. I would like to add the following. At the bottom you will find a link to social security about the subject.

First, in order for anyone to receive social security benefits they must meet the following, from the SSA web site….
You qualify for Social Security benefits by earning Social Security credits when you work in a job and pay Social Security taxes.
The credits are based on the amount of your earnings. We use your work history to determine your eligibility for retirement or disability benefits or your family’s eligibility for survivors benefits when you die.

In 2009, you receive one credit for each $1,090 of earnings, up to the maximum of four credits per year.
Each year the amount of earnings needed for credits goes up slightly as average earnings levels increase. The credits you earn remain on your Social Security record even if you change jobs or have no earnings for a while
How long must you work to qualify for Social Security?
The number of credits you need to be eligible for benefits depends on your age and the type of benefit.

Retirement benefits
Anyone born in 1929 or later needs 10 years of work (40 credits) to be eligible for retirement benefits. People born before 1929 need fewer years of work.
SO, for anyone to earn SSA benefits you must work at a job that pays into SSA for at least 10 years. That would mean that if a person working a job that pays only into a pension, they will only receive their pension and NO SSA. BUT, if that person (anyone working and paying in to pension ) also works a second job, in the private sector and also pays into SSA, they could receive a greatly reduced SSA payment at retirement. The Government Rule for “Social Security Government Pension Offset” is listed below.

“The number of workers in the United States who have a full-time job and also have a part-time job on the side has risen about 5 percent to 4.17 million in 2007 from 3.98 million the prior year, according to Department of Labor statistics.” From at article on MSNBC On-line.

The Social Security Government Pension Offset

HOW GOVERNMENT PENSION OFFSET OPERATES
Government Pension Offset (GPO) affects the spouses of workers who held jobs that were not covered by Social Security. Most of these workers were either state and local government employees or joined the federal government prior to 1984. Spouses of Social Security recipients also qualify for a benefit equal to 50 percent of the worker's benefit. However, the dual entitlement rule (see below) reduces that benefit dollar for dollar by any Social Security benefits that the spouse qualifies for under his or her own earnings record.
Since government workers who were not covered by Social Security do not have any of their own Social Security benefits, theoretically, they would qualify to receive the full spousal benefit. Thus, a person who joined the federal government prior to 1984 would be able to receive both his full Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) pension and a Social Security spousal benefit equal. In order to eliminate this dual benefit, Congress created the GPO in 1977.
Under this rule, two-thirds2/3rds of the CSRS pension would be treated as though it were a Social Security benefit, and the spousal benefit that worker could receive is reduced dollar for dollar by that amount. Thus, if the CSRS worker had a $1,200 a month pension, $800 of his or her CSRS pension (2/3) would be treated as coming from Social Security. If that worker's spouse also received $1,200 a month from Social Security, that worker would also be eligible for a Social Security spousal benefit of $600 (1/2 the spouse's basic retirement benefit). However, it would be eliminated because the portion of the CSRS pension that is treated as coming from Social Security under GPO is larger ($800) than the potential spousal benefit ($600).
As a result of the GPO, the CSRS worker and his or her spouse have received the same treatment as if both of them were covered by Social Security. GPO affects about 300,000 retirees, and reduces Social Security's aggregate benefits by approximately $1 billion annually. While a major proportion are retired federal workers, most of the rest were employed by state and local governments which chose not to participate in the Social Security program. The vast majority of these workers come from eight states: Alaska, California, Colorado, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, and Ohio.

THE DUAL ENTITLEMENT RULE
It has long been a principle of Social Security that a worker cannot qualify for full benefits under both his or her earnings record and that of a spouse. Accordingly, although a married worker theoretically qualifies for both retirement benefits from his or her own earnings record and a spousal benefit equal to 50 percent of the spouse's retirement benefit, this comes under the dual entitlement rule.
The dual entitlement rule reduces the spousal benefit dollar for dollar by the amount of the retirement benefits the worker qualifies for under his or her own earnings record. Thus, if two spouses each qualify for $1,200 a month from their own earnings record, and a spousal benefit of $600 a month (1/2 the basic retirement benefit), they would still only receive a total benefit of $1,200. The $600 spousal benefit is eliminated because it is less than their earned retirement benefit.
On the other hand, if one spouse received $1,200 a month and the other $400 a month from Social Security, the lower earning spouse would also qualify for a $200 spousal benefit. In that case, the $600 spousal benefit from the higher earning spouse would be reduced by the lower earning spouse's benefit ($600–-$400), leaving a $200 spousal benefit. The dual entitlement rule potentially affects 96 percent of the work force.

Social Security Link
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10007.html

Libel has to first be proven untrue *AND* it has to have intent to damage character.

If one can show just one instance of someone being deceptive or lying, then it's not libel.


http://www.homeboundkids.com/www_krause/Doug.htm

"Fights to reduce taxes, cut waste and make growth pay for itself"

Here is the quote:
"CM Doug Krause included. He is as phony as they come before election time. Please stop voting for him! He is DECEPTIVE! He dumped all the ideals of the Napergate Man that he once endorsed! He has lost it!"

"Can someone define libel and explain legally why comments like these do not meet the definition. Not that I am a Krause supporter since I have never voted for him. Just asking.

========================================================================================================================================

Your post was not buried. I saw it and responded to it at length after doing some research. Unfortunately my computer resets automatically at 230am once a week and my response was vaporized.

Let me try again!


--------------------------------------------------------------------

You must understand public officials have a much higher standard than private individuals when it comes to libel laws. Especially elected public officials.

Right before an election if you ever have noticed politicians all accuse each other of libeling, cheating and anything you can think of. No one sues anyone else. When the elections results are over they all claim to love each other, kiss and make up. Perfect example is Barack and Hilary! He did not sue her for libeling him. He gave her a Cabinet Position and a huge expense account and may have let her borrow Air Force One when she went to China.

For a public official to succeed in a libel suit he must be able to prove an intent of actual malice with the intent of hurting his personal reputation. He must also prove the falsity of the libelous statements or misrepresentations. And finally a politician must prove financial damages were incurred to bring a libel suit.


########################################################################################################################################

First the statements I made were accurate. CM Doug has promised me in person many times that he would not vote for increased taxes. Therefore a person who tells his constituents that he is against higher taxes and votes for higher taxes is a PHONY. Notice I chose my words carefully and did not call him a FRAUD which would have bordered a little closer to libel.

Secondly, is CM Doug deceptive? Sure he is. He got himself endorsed by the Napergate Man at least 3 times in elections from what I could see from the Napergate ads I reviewed at Nichols Library. Yes, the Napergate Man even endorsed candidates in his ads and once had his entire SLATE OF 4 elected. CM Doug professesd to be anti-Establishment just like the Napergate Man. Now he is voting with the Establishment Folks on just about every issue including the Censure of Dick Furstenau that led to a $1.5 million waste of taxpayer money and contributed to the $14.1 million operating budget deficit.

Thirdly, CM Doug is an elected politician. Elected politicians need to be able to take the heat. If I called Doug a liar, I may be in trouble. IF I say he has mislead during his 5 election campaigns, I am probably on safe ground. If I say he did not keep his PROMISES, I am probably on safe ground. Did you ever meet a politician who has not mislead once in his political career? Doug has distorted the truth many times. Not once but many times. So I am not worried whether Doug distorts or not. But Doug is not a pathological liar. He just spins the facts and truth to get votes as almost all politicians do....Dah! This is not ROCKET SCIENCE. This is Politics 101. In 40 years I have yet to meet a truly honest politician who does not speak from 4 sides of his mouth. I don't think a truly HONEST PERSON would ever run for political office and reward himself with having to sit with a bunch of dishonest politicians in governmental body.

Fourthly, what financial damage did I cause CM Doug Krause? What can he prove in a court of law? NOTHING! Based on what you folks say no one even reads this blog site. Now you are suddenly worried about a REPUTATION being damaged MALICIOUSLY and with INTENT on this blog site that you folks allege no one reads...lol... You can not have your cake and eat it. If I can maliciously damage someone with intent on the BLOG SITE, than that proves this blog site is POWERFUL. Of course Doug still needs to prove I lied, misrepresented and show actual financial damage.

I have been involved in many lawsuits including libel suits. I know quite a bit about libel law and choose my words carefully. I review what I write not only looking for spelling errors but libel before I hit the Submit Button. If I hit the Submit accidentally before Preview, I ask the Moderator to delete my post and he does.

Finally, the waters for Blogoshere have not been tested in courts of law like the waters of libel in the print press which is a different story. The libel standards for a Blog Site are very lax and give one a lot of latitude compared to the print press.

If you go on Greta.wires Blog Site from Fox News she lets you f---- the mother f------ politicians. She is a lawyer. That should tell you something about us being on safe grounds on this Blog Site. If anything Moderator Magee has gone overboard to keep libel off his site. His standard is if it won't be suited for broadcast TV, it is not suited for his blog site. He won't let me use my favorite W word even though it was in commercials on broadcast TV....lol...
He is very conservative and cautious on this blog site in respects to libel.

########################################################################################################################################

When you accuse City Hall of incompetence, inefficiencies and improprieties do you really think you can be mistaken? What organization on earth does not have incompetence, inefficiencies and improprieties? If you are afraid to make this statement just insert "apparently" or "seems" before those words as I often do and you are 120% covered. Plus when you attack City Hall you are not attacking a politician and there is no libel under any circumstance. A building can not sue for libel...lol...! My English may be better than most may believe it to be. I have a reason for how I say what I want to say. I know buildings don't talk but sometimes I make them talk as a way of covering my rear end. I also hold my self to the libel standards in the print press which is much higher than the standard of a BLOG SITE.

Plus you have a very knowledgable Moderator who will not post LIBEL. He seems to understand what libel is and trashes it when he receives it. I suspect 2% of my letters border on libel and he trashes them. So that is why only 98% of my letters are ever published.

If a public politician like CM Doug can go through all these hurdles, he can be my guest and sue. But he should not be surprised if I subpoena the Napergate Man to testify against him. I don't think the Napergate Man would have ever endorsed Doug Krause if he had told him that if he had the SWING VOTE in a tax increase, he would vote for the TAX INCREASE. If he had been honest with the Napergate Man, he would have never been endorsed by the Napergate Man. He may not even be a sitting council member right now.

What ideals does Doug Krause have? He was all about Napergate when the Napergate Man was pumping him to get him elected. Now that there is no Napergate Man he returned to the safety and security of the Establishment. Doug Krause does not care one iota about you folks. He cares about being in the council and the great fringe benefits that come with being a council member such as the 17k medical and dental package that he probably gets for 10% of the premiums. He would join the Brestal Slate if he thought he could be elected. He has no values or ideals.

Yes, Doug Krause most likely appears to be a phony and deceptive politician. You can't trust a word he says with a 10 foot pole.

He really let us down in his latest vote when he rubber stamped the Establishment's Wasteful Spending Habits instead of siding with the taxpayers whom elected him.

I hope I answered your question. Sorry about the delay but I had to do my stock trading this morning and my first response was deleted by my own computer.

Thank you!

CIJ

PS. And to prove my point that the Moderator is very strict, he deleted my first version of this letter. I don't believe there was any libel in it but I would rather be safe than sorry. You could always change a word or two to say it a little differently.

Doug’s voting record demonstrates how Doug is working for you:

Fights to reduce taxes, cut waste and make growth pay for itself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Original Joe for the link.

I guess I don't have to worry about a libel suit from Council Man Doug Krause since he put his phoniness and deception in writing on his brochures and even Web Site.

Here is the link again:


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.homeboundkids.com/www_krause/Doug.htm

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Maybe you oughta consider publishing the FIRST VERSION of my prior post as we have proof to back it up now, Moderator Magee! Amazing how these blog sites work in REAL TIME.

And you guys think someone is not going to call CM Doug Krause and tell him your CREDIBILITY is being destroyed on Magee's Blog Site and they just posted proof.

Maybe he will send his kids to blog as Furstenau sent his kids.

You might as well make it 5 Council Men for sure are reading this blog site....4 more to go....and we are suppose to believe the propaganda spewed by City Hall daily that no one reads Magee's Blog Site.

CIJ

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PS. I am not at all surprised that TRUTHFUL MESSAGES by a MESSENGER can be PERCEIVED to be a bit condescending and irritating...lol... Have your City Council Members listened to you when you politely asked them not to increase taxes???

OJ is surely awake in the HOUSE....

PLEASE THROW KRAUSE OUT OF THE HOUSE YOU PUT HIM IN!!!

CIJ wrote:

    First the statements I made were accurate. CM Doug has promised me in person many times that he would not vote for increased taxes. Therefore a person who tells his constituents that he is against higher taxes and votes for higher taxes is a PHONY. Notice I chose my words carefully and did not call him a FRAUD which would have bordered a little closer to libel.

Did I miss something? Did CM Krause or anyone else vote for higher property taxes? It seems as if we won't know about voting on higher taxes until the tax levy is agreed upon. (cf. Higgins above (sorry - can't link for some reason))

CIJ also wrote:

    I called my township last year and....When I asked them about the tax rate they became defensive and evasive.

When I have spoken to the assessor's office, it has been clear they understand they cannot control the tax rate or the levy. No defensiveness or evasiveness. They deal with this question all of the time. They can only do what they are charged with dong -- assessing property. They must follow state law and the County assessor can suggest a multiplier if the township assessor is systematically undervaluing or overvaluing property.

e^(i*pi)


The CIJ, proving to be something other than a lawyer, says: "Finally, the waters for Blogoshere have not been tested in courts of law like the waters of libel in the print press which is a different story. The libel standards for a Blog Site are very lax and give one a lot of latitude compared to the print press."

Utterly and completely, unequivocally wrong.
For one of many sites, you can visit:
http://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

Mr. Higgins is the only one that has reading comprehension skills. The taxes aren't raised yet. It's a just in case scenario. For those of you on here that think you have it all figured out, we still have another reduction in force coming down the pike and service cuts. Believe you me, we know it's coming, we just don't know when or how many. AND this was decided before CIJ or any of you other clowns mentioned it. Just keep your eyes peeled and see what's coming...

They're still figuring out the details, maybe they're sparing everyone until after the holidays; after all, these are people's lives you're all playing like a game of chess. Have some class. There are going to be a combination of things done to fill the gap.

By E=MC2 on October 28, 2009 9:50 PM
Mr. Higgins is the only one that has reading comprehension skills. The taxes aren't raised yet.

========================================================================================================================================

The City Council laid the foundation for rasing taxes. Just like you lay the cement before you construct a building.

They have every intention of raising our taxes.

As I said earlier this was a trial ballon to see how far they can go without upsetting or outraging their constituents. If you will, how much they can get away with.

Trust me, the majority of bloggers on this NEW THREAD site have very good reading comprehension. They can not only read but read between the lines. If you can not do that, you have NO READING COMPREHENSION.

Mr Higgins is reading the black and white print. He is right. But the rest of us are reading the gray. Mr. Higgins is intelligent and he knows clearly what will happen unless we raise our voices loud and clear....and PROTEST. I have the utmost respect for him.

I see many NEW bloggers on this thread. This shows me this BLOG SITE has great potential even though it is in its INFANCY.

I know with certainty 4 City Council Members read this blog site and knowing how grapevine travels in Naperville, CM Krause will be reading this blog site very soon, if he has not already read it, and become the 5th officially knowN. I suspect the remaining 4 read it before they crash out for the evening in the quiet of their bedrooms but I do not have any factual evidence of these occurences in the bedroom....lol..

"PUT ME IN THE HOUSE KRAUSE" will not be happy to see we caught him breaking his promises in black and write. Thank you, OJ, very much! We need people like you who are willing to do research and provide links and expose our politicians for whom they are. To expose their TRUE COLORS and STRIPES.

I know CM Krause very well. He is subject to pressure. He was the swing vote in this late debacle at City Hall. With only a handful of residents at the last CC meeting he gambled and went with the establishment....he betrayed the Napergatians who once voted for him in mass. He betrayed the Napergate Man who endorsed him 3 consecutives times in full page Napergate Ads.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any pressure on CM Krause and he will swing back to his Napergate Roots, Ideals and Heritage. He was once a full blown Napergatian accepting endorsement after endorsement from the Napergate Man who truly was against TAX INCREASES.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point the real estate tax may or may not be increased. Depending on how loud we protest. The 400 protesters at City Hall on April 15 still rings loud in the ears of City Hall. If I recall correctly CM Doug Krause took the podium and spoke against higher taxes. Of course, he would since 400 voters were there. What a hypocrite? Please don't vote for him anymore!

Krause will be also be there next April 15 and also speak against higher taxes when hopefully 1000 or more show up. Hopefully, I will have a say in that matter and persuade my fellow organizers not to ever let him speak again. I believe I will be successful after what was uncovered today by OJ.

And when City Hall is empty, he will vote a tax increase that will insure his Big Fat Benefits. When City Hall is packed with voters, he will vote against a TAX INCREASE. That is KRAUSE IN THE HOUSE for you.

CM Krause is a flip flopper. When reading the Napergate ads, he flip flopped on Spring Green 3 times. When the Napergate Man brought his followers, he voted against putting a gas station/commercial building inside of a subdivision. When the Napergate Man and his followers were not there he voted for the Brestal Law Firm and this commercial development. The flip floppings in that Landmark Naperville Case were HISTORIC. I believe I counted about 7 changes of votes by the City Council while reading the Napergate ads. Honestly, my head is still spinning from reading them nearly 2 years ago.

The only one who NEVER flip flopped was Mayor George Arther Pradel. He opposed the Napergate Man and when it was all done and said the Napergate Man genuinely praised him for his HONESTY and STRAIGHFORWARDNESS.

It is rumored that they to this day have great admiration and mutual respect for each other. It is also believed that it was Mayor Pradel who finally pressured the City Council in Executive Session to surrender to the Napergate Man and not proceed to the Illinos Supreme Court and US Supreme Court after losing in the Appellate Courts in both systems. Mayor Pradel did prevent the costs of the Napergate Trials from escalating to 12 million from an estimated 10 million. He deserves credit for saving us taxpayers some serious money on a case that was going nowhere for the TAXPAYERS. (For those who do not know the Napergate Trial costs were never revealed by City Hall...speaking of transparency....they claimed they don't have them...lol)

The only one who with certainty right now will not change his mind and vote for HIGHER TAXES is Mayor Pradel. He can not be pressured. He will not be pressured. He is a man of high principle and will do what he believes is right. He believes higher taxes are important to continue subsidizing City Employees to the tune of 90% on their benefits. It is no secret that he loves City Employees more than City Taxpayers even though he loves us both.

The rest of the CC I suspect can be pressured to change their minds and will change their minds when the temperature in this town gradually rises as the day or reckoning approaches.

Now that Editor Tim West came out of hibernaton after 36 long years and wrote 3 anti-higher tax columns, I suspect the residents will be waking up, since the Naperville Sun still has 16,800 subcribers according to former Host Ted Slowick last year. This means at least double the readers so expect the word to get out very quicky to Napervillians. The last column Mr. West wrote mentioned many of the things I have been mentioning, but of course in a softer tone which will hopefully make it more effective with the sleepy and tired Naperville masses.

I am sure Mr. Higgins knows exactly what I am talking about as he does have excellent reading comprehension.

But politics requires more than reading comprehension. It requires understanding the politicians. Understanding what kind of pressure effects their voting. Understanding their mindset. Understanding if they are principled. No one can dispute that "KRAUSE IN THE HOUSE" is as unprincipled as they come. I voted for him in the last 5 elections. He conned me. I have a right to be UPSET and OUTRAGED. He took me for a ride. THROW HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE, PLEASE! IMPEACH HIM! RECALL HIM! CHARGE HIM! ARREST HIM! I don't care what you do with him.

Keep the pressure on folks if you want your City Council to do the right thing and not vote a TAX INCREASE IN!

Thank you!

CIJ

CIJ wrote:

CM Krause is a flip flopper. When reading the Napergate ads, he flip flopped on Spring Green 3 times. When the Napergate Man brought his followers, he voted against putting a gas station/commercial building inside of a subdivision.

Wasn't the gas station in question going to be located at the northwest corner of Hobson and Naper Blvd?

To JQP,

"Wasn't the gas station in question going to be located at the northwest corner of Hobson and Naper Blvd?"

If that was before the current buildings, it would have been butt-up against the backyards of residents of a subdivision. If that was with what is currently there it would have been inside of a small subdivision itself.

The trump card thrown down already on this thread was Krause's own website saying he would fight to reduce taxes.

Reduce means to make smaller or less in amount. Is that what a YES vote does for allowing the increase of the tax rate? According to the assessor, my value went UP which means Mr. Krause would have to adopt a LOWER tax rate at the same budget level as last year just to keep it constant. To reduce it he would have to vote to adopt a much lower tax rate and/or a lower city budget overall to fulfill his claim of 'reducing' taxes.

I dont think he voted for both a lower budget and a lower rate, did he?

By John Q. Public on October 29, 2009 12:01 AM
CIJ wrote:

CM Krause is a flip flopper. When reading the Napergate ads, he flip flopped on Spring Green 3 times. When the Napergate Man brought his followers, he voted against putting a gas station/commercial building inside of a subdivision.

Wasn't the gas station in question going to be located at the northwest corner of Hobson and Naper Blvd?

========================================================================================================================================

Yes, you are exactly right. It was to be located right in Pembroke Commons. Guess who lives in Pembroke Commons?

It really shows the grass roots support the Napergate Man had in this town. And obviously the grass roots support was much deeper in his subdivison and the surrounding subdivisions who rallied behind him to stop this gas station/commercial building SUCCESSFULLY.

I assume it was no easy task!

That is probably the 1% victory against the Brestal Law Firm that is his 99% success rate subtracted from 100%.

CIJ

To all

As I suggested earlier, go to the City web site and get the correct numbers and information. Be careful of Thom Higgins conjecture. But he is correct, the rate has NO IMPACT on your final taxes. In the last three years, the City has increased taxes to the typical taxpayer by almost 10%. The rate they quoted was much less. Basically, your house went up 7% in value and the City increased taxes 10%. The City deceives you by saying the rate went up 3%.

If you go to that page, you will see the City intends to tax $50 million, a $1 million increase over last year. Not bad, 2% increase. If you look a little closer, they are forcing the Library and Naper Settlement to spend down fund balances (a frowned upon one time fix--once you spend the nest egg, you cannot do it again) by another $2 million. So essentially, the City is increasing taxes $3 million (or 6%--lower than the last three years).

If that was all to the story, not a big issue. However, the same document shows that the City has a $10 MILLION problem remaining. If they fixed that with a property tax increase, the increase would be more than 20%. Now that is real money.

THE CITY SOLUTION? Raise some other tax. They intend to increase sales taxes. So the typcial resident will pay DOUBLE in sales tax than they currently do. One way or another it seems the City wants to increase taxes.

WHAT ELSE CAN THEY DO? Cut Spending. What about these ideas.

No salary increases.
10 Furlough days for all non union employees.
Cut planning department by 75%.
What other departments can be cut by 10 to 25%.
Restrict police overtime for court calls from 8 hours to 4 hours (like other communities)
Close three firehouses overnight.
Restructure firemen work days. Mayor Daley of Chicago said that firemen salary costs would decrease if they worked five 8 hour days (40 hours) rather than these 24 hour days. He did not have the political will to take on the fire department. Why doesn't Krieger get his analysis and implement this cost savings?
Five year moritorium on any new road projects. Where are these projects? Mostly on the southwest side of the City where housing sales have stopped. Build the roads when the people are there just like Naper Boulevard was completed 20 years ago.
Elmiinate Assistant Manager Marshall. That will solve the double dipping.

I know CIJ can double my thoughts.

The City of Naperville got fat during the Greenspan bubble. They need to trim down to what people can afford. CUT SPENDING TO SOLVE THE REMAINING $10 MILLION PROBLEM. NO NEW TAXES!!!!

I find Diane G's comments to be right on point! Great posts.

Many of you seem to be apologists for the taxing authorities.

For years I have heard/read many out there refer to a tax increase or proposal for increase as "...only XX dollars. If you don't want to pay it, move elsewhwere!" Very, very neighborly, yes?

It also sounds a lot like "Let them eat cake", another hubris-laden quote from the past that had a lot of karmic payback associated with it.

We heard the same lame excuse of it only being a few dollars HOW many times lately with District 203, District 204, the Park District, the City 2 times lately, etc?

Guess what, folks: It eventually adds up.

Take you r $350k house's tax bill in 2000, and look at it now. Do you think it kept up with inflation? Nope! It obliterated inflation! Have youlooked at the value of that same home in 2000 versus 2009? Look closely, chillens. You will be shocked at your taxes as a true percentage of value.

The time is NOW to speak up, be counted, and tell your political leaders that they work for you, and not the other way around. Look at the City's budget and see how much of it is related to the concepts of growth, benefits (dental, health, etc), and scheduling (ie overtime).

Someone posted earlier that there is a movement about to end defined benefit programs and replace them with defined contribution programs. The state-wide savings would be in the hundreds of millions (and millions here in Naperville), and matching contributions could be discretionary and based on the year's economy. Huh! Run the state and city like an actual business!

WOW! What a revelation! Treat the public employees exactly like we, the privately-employed taxpayers, are treated. Equality runs RAMPANT!

CIJ,
A direct answer was posted to your "question" and/or "comment" on October 27, 2009 7:15 PM, I thought City Officials disguised as bloggers told us that Police and Fire Fighters can not receive both Pensions and Social Security!

See my post in the "Council votes to raise property tax rate" thread and dated October 28, 2009 2:16 PM. This post explains "The Social Security Government Pension Offset" and has direct quotes from the SS website. Police and Firefighters DO NOT earn Social Security benefits working their jobs. They can earn benefits, reduced by 2/3, if they work a second job in the private sector.

And if you call Police or Firefighters working a second job double dipping, Then read this from MSNBC website.....

“The number of workers in the United States who have a full-time job and also have a part-time job on the side has risen about 5 percent to 4.17 million in 2007 from 3.98 million the prior year, according to Department of Labor statistics.” From at article on MSNBC On-line.

People, 4.17 million in 2007, work second jobs to make ends meet. They may have a single income home and a spouse may stay at home to raise the kids. It's not double dipping, it's being responsible and paying their bills.

The following is the link to a slide show prepared for the City Council Workshop, which caused the article in the Sun:

http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Boards_and_Commissions/cc20091026p2-workshop.pdf

If you go to page 13, “Property tax collections, historical and future projections”, it looks to me that the city is planning a $909,000 (or 2%) increase in property tax collections for 2010. This is based on keeping the tax rate level at .7167 for the third year. Note that even though the tax rate has remained the same, the amount of taxes collected has increased, $3.4 million over those three years. This is due to the increase in the total assessed value for all properties. The chart itself is an excellent visual illustration of how increasing revenues can still lead to declining tax rates due to rising property values.

I will revise my prior contention and state that I think the city wants the ability to increase the tax rate (from .7167 to .7367) in case the total assessed value of all properties decline, in order to hit the $50.6 million figure. I remember watching some Council debate on this and I think the “no voters” wanted the city to keep the revenue amount level and not the rate.

For the record the prior 5 year revenue increases are; 5%, 11%, 6%, 3%, 3%.

There’s also a link to a detailed agenda packet for the same meeting:

http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Boards_and_Commissions/cc20091026p-workshop.pdf

I clicked through all this pretty quickly, but it looks like it outlines proposed cuts, as well as current and projected budgets.

Seems my message got lost in the nonsense. Let me write it AGAIN for people like Enough:

For those of you on here that think you have it all figured out, we still have another reduction in force coming down the pike and service cuts. Believe you me, we know it's coming, we just don't know when or how many. AND this was decided before CIJ or any of you other clowns mentioned it. Just keep your eyes peeled and see what's coming...

They're still figuring out the details but the cuts are coming.

To E=MC2

Take a look at the Chart the Thom Higgins posted

http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Boards_and_Commissions/cc20091026p2-workshop.pdf

Page 16 of 19 in PDF (Page 6 of slide show)

Revenue Generation (Code for Tax Increase) $3.6 to $8.8 million, average of $5.7 million.

A major portion of loss will be covered by TAX INCREASES!!

To Thom Higgins

Go to page 13.19 of the PDF (Page 3 of the Slide Show)

The following are the property tax increases over the last five years compared to the state tax cap:

Levy......City.........Tax
Year....Increase.......Cap
2009.....2.0%.........0.1%
2008.....5.6%.........4.1%
2007....11.3%.........2.5%
2006.....6.3%.........3.4%
2005.....3.5%.........3.3%
2004.....3.2%.........3.2%

With the City built out, the new growth has added between 1 and 2% to the tax revenues. Lower in recent years.

So what has happened here? 11.3% versus 2.5%? Did you notice that these out of line tax increases started when the Dick Fursetenau was screaming for financial responsibility? Was he right or Burchard?

Imagine if the City's home rule was pulled?

By the way E=MC2, I would be surprised if you are right. Look at Aurora. First contract settled with 10 Furlough days in the next 18 months. I am very skeptical.

Another issue for E=MC2

The recently released financial audit for fiscal year 2009 showed a General Fund loss of $1.4 million. I guess they were not able to balance the budget then. Probably worst for 2010 (it is not talked about).

We are not playing horseshoes.

By Enougn on October 29, 2009 3:24 PM
To E=MC2

The following are the property tax increases over the last five years compared to the state tax cap:

Levy......City.........Tax
Year....Increase.......Cap
2009.....2.0%.........0.1%
2008.....5.6%.........4.1%
2007....11.3%.........2.5%
2006.....6.3%.........3.4%
2005.....3.5%.........3.3%
2004.....3.2%.........3.2%
---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

In making the comparisons were the funds that would not be covered by the tax cap act deleted?

By E=MC2 on October 29, 2009 1:08 PM
Seems my message got lost in the nonsense.
For those of you on here that think you have it all figured out, we still have another reduction in force coming down the pike and service cuts. Believe you me, we know it's coming, we just don't know when or how many. AND this was decided before CIJ or any of you other clowns mentioned it.


========================================================================================================================================

Have no fear! Your message did not get lost in the non-existent nonsense. There is only so much time in the day and most of us have lives and will respond as soon as we can.

1. First you sound like a City Official and most probably you are. Your use of the word "WE" is very telling. So now we have at least 2 City Officials and 4.5 Council Members blogging with us that we are relatively sure of.

2. Most of us are demanding 10% cuts in each department. We are not demanding bodies be thrown on the street before or after Christmas.(see your earlier post.)

3. No one needs to be thrown on the street and his family life completely ruined. Mr Scott Huber is a one too many homeless person. We don't need any more encampments.

4. If City Officials and City Staff throw people on the street, it is because they are selfish and greedy.

5. They are selfish and greedy because they want to maintain their high salaries. Instead of taking 10% pay-roll cuts which would lead to 10% pension-roll cuts and have a great positive effect on both our $14.1 million operating budget deficit and $126.2 million accrued actuarial pension liability deficit, they appear to be choosing to throw their fellow city employees on the street and screw up their Christmas. And then blame the taxpayers. What hogwash! This is the nonsense. Maybe people saw through your BS and chose not to respond to YOUR NONSENSE.

6. Why throw City Employees on the street that we need to maintain our services unless they are EXCESS FAT. And I would rather see EXCESS FAT eliminated through ATTRITION. When someone retires, don't replace him or her. I think with 1043 employees mostly working only 30 years before "earning" a Big Fat Pension, about 34 will be retiring each year any way. So why throw bodies on the street?!?!?

7. Whether it is legal or not, Double Dipping in my opinion is IMPROPER and UNETHICAL. If you must lay someone off, let us lay the Double Dippers off starting with Assistant City Manager Robert Marshall. He will still have a pension nearing 100k because it has received 3% increases each year since he retired when it was in the 85K range. Plus if we let him go, he will be receiving a second pension as I believe, but I am not certain whether he is VESTED or not yet and again. And I don't mind giving him a little severance pay, since it is not his fault that CRAZY CROOKISH LAWS permitted him to DOUBLE DIP.

8. Since Mr. Marshall was a former Manager and we now have a Manager, why do we need him? Why can't we pressure Junior Krieger to step it up and do his job as well as Marshall's and delegate whatever he can not handle. Why should the employees on the bottom always pay the price? Who made the mistakes that caused these huge deficts I mentioned above? And don't forget about that $20.5 million that was lost in our Police and Fire Pension Funds. This great loss was due to taking more than necessary risk and bad stock picking. I am a stock investor and I made $135,440.91 year to date all from Common Stock without SHORTING. So in my opinion we need better Management for these Police and Fire Pension Funds. We don't need to make excuses for their less than par perfomances. They should and could have done much better.

9. The last point about our stock losses really bothers me. We are giving these funds between 21% to 25% in matching contribution funds from TAXPAYERS so our police and fire fighters can have their BIG FAT PENSIONS at the very young age of 52. They lost this money. By law we the TAXPAYERS have to pay for the RISK they took contrary to what Forensic Accountant Experienced has been telling you. We are responsible and must take every legal measure to replenish the money they lost.

10. There is only one way out of this responsibility and obligaion. That is if the City of Naperville files Bankruptcy through Chapter 9. I feel it is necessary that Naperville file Chapter 9 and rid of us this $126.2 million AAPLDeficit that is really impossible to overcome. I say this because even in boom years the deficit got worse. I believe from memory the P and F AAPLDeficits increased about $34.9 million this year ALONE. The IMRF AAPLDeficit for non police and fire fighters increased another whopping $17.4 million dollars. Imagine an increase of $52.3 in ONLY ONE YEAR. Money does not grow on trees in our backyards. Sorry, City Officials. Get your acts together very quickly or give yourselves your own walking papers instead of to your innocent employees who simply followed your orders. Why make them scapegoats for your bad decisions?

11. No one should be surprised that City Officials on this blog site want to destroy my credibility for being TRUTHFUL. I have provided links to this information from my research...sometimes all night long.

12. Why am I not nice? I have no plans to roll any heads on the streets of Naperville. Why am I irritating? I mostly want pay-cuts and pension-cuts to eliminate the $14.1 million deficit. City Officials are the ones that want bodies littering the streets. They even admitted it since the person I am responding to appears to be a high ranking City Official who used the word WE to describe what is coming. How would he know what is coming if he was not a CITY OFFICIAL? Why would he use WE in as one of them? I use WE as in a TAXPAYER of NAPERVILLE.


========================================================================================================================================

Here in his own words describing what is coming:

They're still figuring out the details, maybe they're sparing everyone until after the holidays; after all, these are people's lives you're all playing like a game of chess.


========================================================================================================================================

Sorry buddy! We are not playing with people's lives like a a game of chess. You folks in City Hall are playing with people's lives because you are greedy and selfish. Because you don't want to take pay-roll cuts and pension-roll cuts. Because you give yourselves raises when we have a $14.1 million operating budget deficit.

I have been screaming at you folks for 3.5 years. I wish I could scream louder. I wish it was legal to throw the podium in City Hall at you when I speak to you soon in person since my words on this blog site that I KNOW YOU READ have not woken you up....coffee has not woken you up....a slegehammer can not wake you up it seems.

Editor Tim West has come out of 36 years of hibernation and now repeating what I say on this blog site. Obviously he did not do any personal research or he would have a clue how many City Employees we have. He is now reading my posts and presenting them in a softer way and tone to see if you folks will listen. Kudos to him for getting on board finally. A STANDING OVATION TO HIM!!! I sent him many posts to his failed blog site and low and behold he is finally listening. I woke him up out of the dead. I am now proud of him and especially his very last column which was his 3rd about government waste and high taxation. Remember he is ESTABLISHMENT which means he is one of you. Listen to what he is telling you.

The last time he came out of hibernation he wanted you to produce the cost records for the estimated $10 million Napergate Trials. You pretty much told him to take a hike. That no records exist for the cost of the 10 year Napergate Trials. What incompetence to not have records of costs on a 10 year long legal battle against a MOM and POP liquor store owner who stood up to you folks like no one in the 178 history of this town. You blew on Mr. West like he was a candle on a birthday cake. You embarrassed him. You humiliated him!

I think a new TIM WEST is here. I honestly don't think you will be able to blow him away like he was a candle this time around. I think he finally understands the pulse of this community from letters to the editor he gets and I am 1000% sure he reads this blog site especially since he tried to tailor his failed blog site along this successful one. Plus I see my words and ideas in his columns. He is not PLAGIARIZING though and I am glad he is using my ideas and and proposing my solutions.

Anyway you guys should know after your experiences with the NAPERGATE MAN, that the TRUTH ALWAYS WINS AND PREVAILS IN THE END.

You folks tried to accuse me of libeling CM DOUG KRAUSE. I did not as OJ has shown. I told the truth. The TRUTH IS THE BEST DEFENSE against any allegaion of LIBEL. So keep making fools of yourselves if you so choose. And please don't call us CLOWNS. Look at yourselves in the mirror before making such uncalled for comments.

Keeping begging the taxpayers for more more money like we issue credit cards. We are sick and tired of you folks in City Hall. Now make the pay cuts and pension cuts will follow automatically as they are based on a percentage of SALARY. There is no reason to throw City Employees on the streets. If you throw them there, that is your action not the taxpayers CALL TO ACTION.

We only want you to make 10% cuts in each department and maybe 75% cuts in the Building Department since contruction and loans are literally frozen. Retrain those guys in the BD to take new jobs when other employees retire. Send a few to Plainfield which is only 25% developed as compared to us being 98.5% developed.

OK, City Officials, I was not ignoring your NONSENSICAL REMARKS that attempt to brainwash the taxpayer into a CONSCIENCE of GUILT. The GUILT IS ON YOUR HANDS....OUR HANDS ARE CLEAN!

Thank you!

CIJ

It is really too bad that the law can't be changed (or can it ?) so a person would not loose his/her house if they didn't pay the real estate taxes. That would surely wake the clowns on the city council and the school board.

Let me state the following: I don't use the park --- Why should I pay ?? I don't use the library ---- Why should I pay ??? Having children, I have to pay all of my life to the schools for something I only use for 12 years ---- Why do I have to pay ?? And the list goes on.

And please don't tell me about social responsibility !

Change the law on the taxes as I stated and get rid of the home rule, and have a recall as well on the city council and the school board as well. Maybe this is what is needed to wake the arrogant clowns up.

By the way --------- When are the building inspectors going to be laid off and the size of the building department be reduced.

How about the police as well. With all of the red light cameras what do we need them for other than domestic violence, robberies, and murders.

NO MORE TAXES !!!!

To E=MC2, you seem like you're in the know and I believe you're right. A RIF is coming. So all the residents who are used to being coddled by the city ... you better wake up and smell the coffee. Services will go down because the number of employees is going to go down. I don't think the council has the stones to raise gas or sales tax. They seem intent to balance the budget on the backs of employees ... many of whom are Naperville residents. It appears that employees are just numbers to them, and sadly, reading these blogs, it seems as if they are just numbers to you all. These are the people that you expect to be on the other end of the phone when you call 911. You want them available when you need to get your utilities turned back on. Council says that they cannot raise taxes because everyone is on a budget. Don't they understand that employees are on a budget as well? What would have more of a negative impact ... paying more for gas (which we all did last year) or not having a job at all. For all of you who think Council doesn't care about the residents, I beg to differ. They don't care about the employees. Watch a Council meeting sometime. They continuously rail on employees and passive agressively accuse them of rigging bids and "burying" information. Its sickening. So, rest easy everyone, residents are ALL they think about.

Chris

Why do you even bother to start a blog on this topic when you know one person will dominate it? You are posting a topic which you know will be right in his wheelhouse. I cant even READ this one since he discovered HTML formatting.

I realize this is an important topic. Probably one of the more serious to make it on your boards. People should be able to discuss it. So why do you allow such domination by one person? I would wager that between 25-40% of the total words posted here are from one person.

Agree or disagree with him....that kind of monopoly does not really constitute a dialog.

To Why?

"They don't care about the employees. Watch a Council meeting sometime. They continuously rail on employees and passive agressively accuse them of rigging bids and "burying" information. Its sickening. So, rest easy everyone, residents are ALL they think about"

I agree with you with respect to treating some of the employees like crap. However, let's not pretend that there's not a Good Ole Boy network in the area and that it doesn't influence who gets what money or how much they get from the City or who gets their stuff approved by Council and who doesn't. You may think that residents are ALL they think about, but they don't think about ALL residents beyond just how much tax $$ they can get from them to inject into the network.

ITEM '08 levy '08 rate || '09 levy '09 rate rateΔ


IMRF 2,631,104 .0380 || 2,977,081 .0421 10.89%
Police Pension 3,664,630 .0528 || 4,686,627 .0663 25.64%
Fire Pension 3,555,244 .0513 || 4,551,108 .0644 25.58%


Naperville Library 13,805,307 .1989 || 12,855,307 .1820 -8.51%
Naper Settlement 2,955,050 .0426 || 2,757,272 .0390 -8.38%

From page 7 of the workshop file

Please go to that page to see exactly how the state pension law is indirectly crushing Naper Settlement and the Naperville Library. Without home rule these would be even worse off.

Page 8 is enough to make you cry. The EAV goes down, yet there is still about a 10% per year increase in tax levy planned, with the tax rate increasing even more than that.

e^(i*pi)

Economic picture

*58 year low in employment advertising

*Foreclosures are picking up again with up to 30% transactions being foreclosures

*Adjusted number will almost certainly show more net job losses

*Consumer credit and spending still contracting

*Car sales dropped after the gimmick stopped, same will happen for home sales with gimmick ending this month

*massive new taxes and spending on the way from the FEDs

Lets raise taxes?

Mr. 77 why should you get the benefits of living in a great city and not pay for any of it? Sounds like you should just take up camp next to Mr. Huber, all the benefits and none of the taxes.

To Why, you are absolutely right.

You know what I don't get, No one wants or likes tax raises, but no one wants services cut either. So the natural conclusion is cut city workers, cut salaries, increase benefit contributions. What happens when you max out on city workers, salary cuts and benefit contributions and there is still not enough money to keep the city service levels status quo? What do you recommend then?

Enought or enougn, you must have forgotten, Naperville is no Aurora. They will slash and cut employees with no problem. They might not touch the unions, but they have no problem cutting everyone else.

There were 17 posts on this thread today since 9am.

CIJ had one post.

How do you all figure this is DOMINATION?

Maybe he/she/it dominates with a strong message.

Typical Naperville resident expectations about services:
- The city will pickmy leaves up for me. I don't have to put them in bags with stickers like 90+% of the surrounding communities have to.
- Police or fire will respond to an emergency within 5 minutes.
- If I have a medical emergency and I call 911, a city paramedic will respond in a vehicle equipped like a rolling emergency room instead of a private ambulance comapny with a glorified van.
- I will be able to visit libraries that are among the best in the country.
- I will be able to visit museums and a sparkling, vibrant downtown without having to go to Chicago.
- My children will attend a high school that cost at least $100 million.
- Each week I can put as much garbage on the curb as I want without having to buy stickers or rent a garbage cart and it will get picked up, no questions asked.
- My water and sewer services will always cost less than what other nearby communities pay.
- My electric service will almost never be interrupted, and if the power goes out it will be restored within half an hour. Too bad for you who have to deal with Com Ed.
- If a big wind storm blows through, the city will provide special brush pickups for my fallen limbs
- I will not be forced to buy a vehicle sticker.
- Crime in Naperville will be almost non-existent.
- All city streets will be plowed within 12 hours after a snow storm stops.
- The cul-de-sac I live on will be salted even though it is not used for through traffic.
- The city will send a truck to pick up the dead squirrel/opossum/cat/racoon on the street in front of my house within a few minutes of the time I call them.
- I will not have to deal with mosquitoes in the summer.
- The city will provide a household hazardous waste facility so I won't have to pollute my local landfill.
- The city will provide annual electronics recycling so I have a safe way to get rid of old computers and TV sets.
- I will almost never see a burned out street light or a traffic signal that doesn't work.
- I won't see trash or litter on city streets.
- The city will send me reminders about all the services it provides in my utility bills and broadcast that information on cable TV. When I fail to read the information, I can still call the city to complain that I didn't know what was going on and they will take care of me.
- The city will provide me with world-class services using employees who get total compensation at the 50th percentile when compared to similar positions in similar organizations.

Everyone screams for cuts, cuts, and more cuts. I'm sure they will scream twice as loud when the service levels that have most residents spoiled rotten start to decline because there simply isn't enough money to pay for them. The city has cut the fat, and now they are looking at cutting meat and bone. You can't get Nordstrom quality at Walmart prices.

CIJ

Your above post was much better.

Keep tightening up your message, you can say the same in half the space. It will make your points more effective.

===================================================================

Does anyone know the size of the pay raises for the City this year and does the management still get bonuses after cutting the Library?

Will the Unions still get their last day promotions to goose up their 40 years of retirement benefits?

Will the unions still invest in the highest risk investments in the hopes of hitting a grand slam; knowing that when they strike out, the taxpayers will have to pony up the money for their insane gambling losses? Wins go the Unions, losses to the taxpayers.

Is government at all levels still driving at full speed into an economic implosion?

Moodys is forecasting that the US will lose its A credit rating in 10 years, oops that was six months ago. The US will now lose its A credit rating in 5 years.

Spendaholics accelerating into a brick wall with all of our families in the car.

I was attempting to gain some insight in reading this blog, but whoever keeps typing in light blue could just type in black,

would be much appreciated. Its very irritating to read light blue and I just stopped reading. Oh well.


To: By Just the Facts on October 30, 2009 9:12 AM, I've lived in Naperville for 12 years, see my responses to some of your statements.

Typical Naperville resident expectations about services:
- The city will pick my leaves up for me. I don't have to put them in bags with stickers like 90+% of the surrounding communities have to. I always have to call the city to remind them that there are trees with leaves south of 75th street and it would be nice if they stopped by my area and picked up the leaves before it snows.

- My children will attend a high school that cost at least $100 million. And I pay for it in my taxes!!!! What does the city have to do with this!!!

- Each week I can put as much garbage on the curb as I want without having to buy stickers or rent a garbage cart and it will get picked up, no questions asked. Not true. Sometimes you need to pay ahead of time if you are throwing away certain items.

- If a big wind storm blows through, the city will provide special brush pickups for my fallen limbs. I had to call and plead with them to come by in August of '08 to pick up the limbs after a storm.

- All city streets will be plowed within 12 hours after a snow storm stops. Not true! Come to my street after a storm and you can help me shovel!

- The city will send a truck to pick up the dead squirrel/opossum/cat/racoon on the street in front of my house within a few minutes of the time I call them. Right, but the fire hydrant in front of my house has only been painted once in 12 years!!

- I will not have to deal with mosquitoes in the summer. You're crazy!

- I will almost never see a burned out street light or a traffic signal that doesn't work. Dead street lights are numerous in my sub-division!

- I won't see trash or litter on city streets. That's because of the citizens, not the city!!

- The city will send me reminders about all the services it provides in my utility bills and broadcast that information on cable TV. When I fail to read the information, I can still call the city to complain that I didn't know what was going on and they will take care of me. Waste on MONEY!!!!!


To Experienced.

If Naperville was a non home rule community, their entire tax levy would be capped. I think you are referring to the levies that are set by statute (pensions and debt service) that the City says they don't control.

A couple of followup of related points. The City does control police and fire pension costs based on the number of police and firemen they hire and the salary increases. If 10% would be RIFFED, the pension costs would go down as well.

Second, I did not see the City supporting pension reforms for police and fire personnel. This brings into question if they are really serious about controlling such costs.

Why not a 100% development moritorium effective immediately? Fire the entire planning department and the construction departments of the water, sewer, and electrical departments. Take these savings to the General Fund, a dividend for the City's investment.

They should have been controlling costs three years ago. The didn't and the problems are worst.

Hey Enough, if you know anything about Naperville you would know that the water/sewer/electric departments don't get paid out of the general fund.

And for the people that think that there are no planning projects or inspections going on because there aren't vast plots of empty land left, you really have no idea what inspectors and planners do. And if you are doing improvements to your home and not scheduling proper inspections, you are violating the law.

If Naperville was non-home rule it would be Rockford. Study up on Rockford, where they voted out home rule years ago. It is one sad town approximately the same size as Naperville. Don't compare Naperville to Lisle or Oak Brook, smaller towns with under 25,000 residents. Look at Rockford for an apples to apples comparison. Over 140,000 residents. It's a mess and that's what you want for Naperville. You are wishing death to a great city. The state can't control it's own house, you want the state making decisions for Naperville? It's not just about taxes my friend.

By Enough on October 30, 2009 12:45 PM
To Experienced.

If Naperville was a non home rule community, their entire tax levy would be capped. I think you are referring to the levies that are set by statute (pensions and debt service) that the City says they don't control.
----------------------------------------------

Have you ever read the definition of Aggregate Extension and the exceptions therein as set forth in the Property Tax Extension Limitation Law? Note, there are many conflicting definitions and you have to read them all to get the cumulative affect of all the exclusions. Here is a biggie:

"(o) made for contributions to a firefighter's pension fund created under Article 4 of the Illinois Pension Code,to the extent of the amount certified under item (5) of Section 4‑134 of the Illinois Pension Code."

That's the one that requires the city to bring the fund up to 100% by 2033.

There are a lot more.

Does anyone know the size of the pay raises for the City this year

Answer: 0%, no pay raises.

To Anonymous on October 30, 2009 2:51 PM

Rockford certainly isn't 30 minutes from Chicago by train and basically needs to support itself for resident's income due to its proximity to nothing. Naperville does not have that boat anchor around its neck and people can draw paychecks from a variety of places within a simple short commute time.

It is not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch.

ROCKFORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Be serious. The non home rule status of the community is not the cause of its demise. Gangs, rundown housing, illeterate people, delinguents.

Next you are going to say that all of these factors are cause by non home rule. Then explain why East St. Louis isn't at par with Naperville (they are home rule).

A totally rogue comment.

And many of the home rule communities have kept their word on taxes (Schaumberg). Naperville's deceptive use of irrelevant tax items particularly the rate is an insult to its citizens. The rate is TOTALLY irrelevant and they know it.

And pension funds are subject to the tax cap. Read this document rather than trying to be an expert on the convoluted statutes:

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/LocalGovernment/PropertyTax/pio62.htm

Here is an excerpt from this document:

What is the aggregate extension?
The aggregate extension is that portion of a taxing district's total extension that is subject to the limitation. The funds included in the aggregate extension are the annual corporate extension for the taxing district and those special purpose extensions made annually. Some examples of extensions included in the aggregate extension are those for self-insurance, PENSION PLANS, unemployment and workers' compensation, and, whether levied annually or not, road district permanent road funds.

Better yet, call Lisle or Rockford to check out your statement.

Here enough, read up on how Rockford is trying to get home rule back...

http://www.homerulenow.com/whatshomerule.html

If this is true, I applaud the City.

Pay raises with all of the private sector salary and benefits cuts, foreclosures and local business failures within a few blocks of my house would be outrageous.

Does the zero include all public service employees or just the ones that wont threaten a strike?

Thanks,

======================================================================


By Anonymous on October 30, 2009 3:04 PM

Does anyone know the size of the pay raises for the City this year

Answer: 0%, no pay raises.

I don't know why you trust the State more than the people you personally elected for council. You honestly believe the State is going to do it better than the local government you live in? The pension crisis we are in is because of the State, the state budget crisis we are in is because of the State - you still want the State telling you how to do things?

Hey Enough, the lack of Home Rule is not the cause of community problems, the lack of Home Rule deprives ourselves and our elected officials of important tools with which to deal with community problems. In the areas of crime; education; protection of public health and safety and economic development.

It's not a rogue comment, it's reality.

By Anonymous on October 30, 2009 3:04 PM
Does anyone know the size of the pay raises for the City this year
Answer: 0%, no pay raises.

========================================================================================================================================

Prove it! I don't believe it. Refer me to a link or web site or a city press release, please!

I may have symptoms at times of Alzheimer's as I get older but I recall watching a City Council meeting recently in which they were discussing raises for City Employees. I recall being outraged but did not throw anything at my TV as I am fiscally responsible and understand the replacement costs of a TV....lol...( A 2.4% number comes to mind for city raises....and POs and FFs are city employees.)

Of course they are known to go into Executive Session and reverse stupid decisions they have made in Council Chambers. We know they went into Executive Session and surrendered out of the view of the cameras in the Napergate Trials. So anything is possible with those folks in Peg's Palace.(former Mayor Margaret Price built this palace under her watch for those who do not know at a humongous price that upset taxpayers at the time....her nickname was Peg. The Napergate Man called City Hall Peg's Palace and the police dept. the Taj Mahal while they were being built...a little history about Naperville...I know you are the official historian Moderator Magee so sorry if I am stepping on your toes with my history lessons to the newcomers in town...lol..)

My understanding is the police and fire fighters who are city employees have contracts calling for raises and in fact did receive their raises.

If they decided to be good citizens and coughed up their raises than the Naperville Sun is a grossly negligent newspaper for not reporting the good deeds of our police, fire fighters and City Hall employees.

I do think the Naperville Sun needs to notch up its reporting on issues at City Hall. This one reporter writing one article a day really bothers me. A reporter hustling and dedicated to his profession should be able to rip into City Hall and write several articles a day.

It bothers me how the Naperville Sun allows Editor Tim West to write only 3 columns a week that I can write in 15 minutes each. Is he paid for 45 minutes a week or is he paid to work 40 hours a week? Yes, I know he reads the few letters of the editors that still come to the Sun and approves them. That is another 15 minutes a week. What does he do for the other 39 hours week? Can you describe his duties Moderator Magee since you are an insider? Please let us know that our beloved newspaper does not have EXCESS FAT! I know he tried to open his own Blog Site when he was consumed of boredom that he named All Points West. But that failed miserably after he refused to accept opposing views. Just for the record, he censored every one of my posts without EXCEPTION or COMMENT. I guess he dug his own grave. No one wants a newspaper or blog site that is of one viewpoint and censors opposing view points especialy when they are not libelous but only very strongly opinionated as my posts appear to be to Establishment Folks. (What is Tim West doing with all that spare time that he was going to devote to running his failed Blog Site?)

We bloggers have a lot of questions and obviously looking for a lot of answers. Our local paper, which also should be the watchdog on governemnt is letting us down big time as far as providing the news we want and need to insure our government is not wasting our tax dollars. Is it depending on the no-circulation Daily Herald to provide answers? That paper has about 1200 subcribers in Naperville and will be completely out of Naperville by next year....my opinion! Is the Naperville Sun than going to act like a monopoly that can do as it pleases or still care about it subscribers and readers? Please let us know Sun expectations for the future, Moderator Magee?

I understand the Naperville Sun has financial constraints like the rest of us. But can they not push their reporters and columnists to work a little harder as we are pushing City Hall to work a little harder. To notch it up one more dial! They asked us to be citizen journalists and help them. We are doing that right here on this blog site with more and more bloggers contributing each and every day. But they must be the leaders....not us! They are the professionals who have degrees in journalism....not us! They are the one being paid the "small bucks"....not us! But nevertheless they are being paid even though not receiving Big Fat Everythings as those in our great City of Naperville.

That is all I am asking as I am looking for answers. I am only a volunteer citizen investigative journalist. I should not be required to produce as much as a real investigative journalist who is educated in the field, is a professional, works full time and collects a weekly paycheck for his or her services. (I understand Sun employees get almost no benefits and no Pension...just like the rest of us...but that is no excuse not to perform at 110%)

Please step it up Naperville Sun. You can do much better in monitoring City Hall. If the Napergate Man was able to monitor City Hall while owning multiple businesses, you should also be able to monitor City Hall. He once opened 3 businesses in one week and still managed to find time to produce his full page Napergate Watchdog Ad. It is not that hard. You just need some desire, detemination and will power. Dig deeper! Have no fear...they will never dare harass a newspaper. The citizens will be behind you! We need you to check on government that is simply out of control.

Thank you!

CIJ

If I was still there (and, gladly, I'm not and this is no reflection on the citizens of Naperville and the loyal Sun readers), this issue would be covered like a blanket and with the editorial commentary it deserves. Commentary that reflects outrage. Simply put, at a time of such severe economic contraction, the notion of raising taxes even by a penny is irresponsible if not reprehensible. This is especially true while civil servants i.e. Bob Marshall, to name just one, continues to feed at the double-dip trough.

So, hello again, and good luck Napervillians, even as your City Council makes these terrible decisions when, in fact, they're much better equipped to deal with matters like zoning, sidewalk widths etc. etc.

And, hi, Chris....glad to see the company found a savior. And lastly, there was no libel involved in that prior post...it was okay.

no subjunctive?

really Jim Lynch...?

moderator...do you know the answer?

Verb conjugation is not a strong suit of mine, but something seems amiss. AP style? NYT style? Blog style?

On topic.. GRRRRRR!!!

-1

+
By Anonymous on October 30, 2009 5:26 PM

Here enough, read up on how Rockford is trying to get home rule back...

http://www.homerulenow.com/whatshomerule.html
+

"Will Home Rule make our local leaders more accountable? It stands to reason that with Home Rule's enhanced local power and responsibility comes accountability."


HA!

Former Editor and Publisher of the Naperville Sun Jim Lynch,

Thanks very much for your great commentary and opinion. You were a great guy. I knew that from all our e-mail exchanges using my anonymous handles. You were always very helpful and fair.

I believe if you were here you would rip into these folks at City Hall like there was no tomorrow. I was very disappointed when you were let go instead of Tim West even though Mr. West may finally be coming around....God Willing!

I am really shocked that Sun Officials would allow Mr. Censorship to hang on this long. At least Sun Officials should investigate my allegations that he censored every one of my posts blasting the establishment that he attempted to protect.

As we know his wife works for the Brestal Law Firm who controlled 99% of the development in this town. The City Council according to the Napergate Man rubber stamped 99% of what Mr. Brestal brought before them. ( I have no proof of that but simply repeating what the Napergate Man wrote in his ads that were not challenged by City Hall and published by the Naperville Sun after a tertiary review for libel and inaccuracies.)

I hope your strong remarks embolden Sun Employees. I hope they embolden Mr. Magee who seems like a young Moderator sitting on the fence not sure which way to jump. I have faith when he finally makes his leap it will be on the side of truth and justice. I almost have no doubts.

I feel Mr. Magee is under immense pressure to stay cool with the Corrupt Establishment by his superiors.(Simply expressing an opinion.)

However it is my opinion as he sees more and more people adopting my 3.5 year old viewpoints he will finally jump off the fence and watch out for the residents instead of the FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE politicans in City Hall....with the blessing of his superiors. Today he got the blessing of his Former Boss. Tomorrow he will get the blessing of his Current Boss....hopefully!

As you know there has been a gang mentality to paint me as a crazy person because I speak my mind no different than the Napergate Man spoke his mind or you spoke your mind when you were here, Mr. Lynch.

One thing I know for sure is that if you stick to the facts and truth you can knock anyone out. That is how the Napergate Man knocked out City Hall. And that is how I hope we residents will unite and give City Hall a second knock out punch since they appear to have recovered from the massive blow delivered by the Napergate Man a decade ago.

Right now the Naperville Sun appears wimpish to the residents. A soft paper. If the Sun wants to double circulation in print and triple readership on its blog site, it needs to start swinging just like the Napergate Man did. He swung for 12 years and no one sued him for libel.

Does anyone know why know why no one ever sued the Napergate Man for libel? I will tell you why.....because TRUTH always defeats LIBEL.

His Napergate Ads were put under the microscope by City Officials, Sun Officials in California, his own attorneys and no one could stop him or his publishings. Why! Because he apparently knew if you told the TRUTH you could never get in trouble. He told the truth and blasted almost every one in City Hall individually and collectively and it was like he was immune. He even took them to courts for violating his Civil Rights when they attacked his liquor establishments in retaliation and cleaned them out.

To this day, imagine Mr.Lynch they refuse to admit the cost of the Napergate Trials or how they buried them. This is relevant because many of the City Council Members and City Officials are from that Napergate Era. It is relevant because they have not changed their ways as Forensic Accountant Experienced caught them trying to hide the $20.5 million dollars in pension fund losses. When you repeat your improprieties, you should face defeat! You should resign. You should take a plunge off City Hall Japanese Style instead of stationing snipers to intimidate peaceful tax protestors.

I hope we hear more from you Mr. Lynch. I for one miss you. I think you and Ted did a great job with this Blog Site. I believe it remains the best in Chicagoland if not the nation. And I think the baton was passed to the right person who will eventually be bold as you and Ted were. Let us hope he covers them like a blanket and begins to show outrage in his COMMENTARY on this blog site as you seem to hint he should be doing.

Moderator Magee is a taxpaying resident in Naperville. He is being screwed like every taxpayer in town is, so that City Employees can retire at age 52 and smoke cigars in their rocking chairs while 85 year old senior citizens continue to work at Sam's as greeters to support their high roller life styles.

When I was 29 I did not understand how I was getting screwed royally. So I am not going to criticise Mr. Magee for not understanding how he is being screwed. If he had a wife and 4 kids and lived in an average home in Naperville he would be feeling the screws tightening as most of us are seeing. Sometimes when you are single you don't feel the screws until the last man or woman is standing.

All the arguments City Supporters and Officials are making here are nothing but a smokecreen to continue in their FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE ways to enrich themselves.

If I could be given one hour at the podium at a City Council meeting with no interruption, I would reveal my identity and let loose. My condition is that I am not to be interrupted unless I libel. Other than that I want my one hour to speak to my City Council Members uninterrupted to tell them to their faces how irresponsible they have been....how unconsionable they have been.....how useless they have been....how dare they double dip while laying city employees that do all the work off.

Keep blogging my fellow bloggers. I am very impressed with the comments on this specific thread. I am very impressed with the newcomers. Don't let them make me the ISSUE. It is nothing but an attack on a CREDIBLE MESSAGE by attacking a MESSENGER. And then they tell me I am trying to make myself an issue. I was trying to be as anonymous as possible by picking handles out of a rabbit's hat as most of you know. I was forced into having one handle.

,b.Now I see my ONE HANDLE that they demanded is OUTRAGING them. This is proof that it is not about the HANLDLE or the MULTIPLE HANDLES. It is about the MESSAGE that is stripping them naked and allowing us to see their true colors....and their true colors STINK!

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. Thanks for pointing out that my prior post did not have any libel. I am just trying to hit as hard as I can to wake the sleepy residents. I wish you and Ted were still here to help us ram the bus into City Hall. We miss you guys!

I do know why Rockford lost their home rule, they raised property taxes by 4%, not the 10% that Naperville did.

They are begging to get back home rule so they can tax, soda pop, car leases, etc.

The State does not control home rule communities, the VOTERS do. They can vote in tax increases. Why are people afraid to give us the power? Do you yearn for Castro to take over Naperville and tell us what we can do?

I forgot to address the water and electrictity comment. The debt is almost paid off, the City could transfer funds to support the General Funds.

In Missouri, there are cities that fund their entire operations from the electricity bills and water services.

As to the inspection comment, there are companies that will perform the connection for a fee. I know of communities that made money on this, charging the resident 150% of the cost of the inspection. These companies create VARIABLE COSTS. No inspections, no costs.

OUTSOURCE!!!!!

Sometimes you have to think outside the box to achieve greatness. I would scrounge every dollar so I would not have to raise taxes a penny in this current year. As simple as that.

By Anonymous on October 30, 2009 9:17 AM
CIJ
Your above post was much better.
Keep tightening up your message, you can say the same in half the space. It will make your points more effective.

===================================================================

Thank you once again for you kind comments. I don't know if it was you or another Anonymous who gave me a STANDING OVATION. But regardless, thank you, and I wish you would choose a handle.

Your below summarization of what I have been trying to say about the $20.5 million P and F Pension Fund losses are quite articulate, impressive and maybe easier for the layman to understand. You were RIGHT ON THE MONEY.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Will the unions still invest in the highest risk investments in the hopes of hitting a grand slam; knowing that when they strike out, the taxpayers will have to pony up the money for their insane gambling losses? Wins go the Unions, losses to the taxpayers.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Very well said Anonymous!

I think some people can be more effective expressing themselves with short posts and some people can be more effective expressing themselves with long posts. I try for the short but since I am emotional and an extremely quick writer they become long almost without my knowledge. When I a hit the preview button after 10 minutes, I am shocked how much I wrote.

But I think my long posts have been effective. I am an emotional writer trying to wake apathetical residents. I feel I am succeeding. A few years ago no one chose to join me in my tax protest against City Hall that I started on this blog site. Now we have plenty of bloggers and we had plenty of real protesers on April 15, a tax protest I helped organize with several other folks.

We are getting there.

Some people read books for hours upon hours. I don't! So why would they mind reading a post that takes one or two minutes to read if it is informative, easy to read, factual and truthful. Like I said based on all the comments made about my posts, I know they are being read. Just a little while ago on another thread a blogger was reading my old long posts again and republishing them. So they are reading and reading and apparently can not get enough to have to go into the archives constantly.

At least 4.5 Council Men are reading my posts. At least 2 City Officials. If I were a gambler like our pension fund managers, I would bet better than 75% of City Officials are reading my posts and your excellent posts now, along with everyone elses. They know this blog site is the real thing. They are trying to destroy it by making us feel no one cares for it or reads it. I am glad Moderator Magee lets them say what they want. I have reason to believe he is confident we can see through their ridiculousness.

Again, I studied blog sites. Once you are established as a credible regular who makes sense, bloggers will follow your writings and commend them or condemn them. That is what is happening. But it seems like the commendations are increasing while the condemnations are decreasing despite the gang mentality on this site that is so pervasive. Therefore, I am persisting with steadfastness and resolve to defeat the gang on this blog site. I am confident we will defeat them especially with the help of bloggers like yourself whom I sincerely appreciate. No doubt in my mind. They are losing the battle on this thread and hopefully from now on EVERY THREAD.

I honestly feel very encouraged after seeing what all you folks have said on this latest thread. I am very encouraged by former Moderator Jim Lynch who appears to agree with my opinions whole heartedly. It was so nice to see a former Publisher/ Editor of the Naperville Sun make such strong comments. Just imagine if he was still running the Naperville Sun. I would have the newspaper I dreamed of having for nearly 4 decades. I would subscribe again after a few years absence to support my newspaper.

Anyway, I feel very optimistic today that the Establishment that rules this town is about to be exposed again. I really believe they thought there would never be a Napergate Man again.

But we may not have a Napergate Man but we have a Napergate Blog Site where we can all jointly be the Napergate Man. If he can do it with his supporters, we can do it together. If he could fill City Hall, we can fill City Hall.

One thing we know for sure is he did not do it through magic or osmosis. He did it through hard work and built a grass roots movement over many years. We are also working hard and building a grass roots movement right here on this Sun Blog Site.

One day when we have hundreds of bloggers and thousands of readers, we can make a call for bloggers to attend a City Council Meeting in large numbers as the Napergate Man did and I believe we will succeed as he did. We need to fill City Hall one day with 300-400 residents and raise our voices as the Napergatians raised their voices. We need to make sure we are heard. If they are not hearing us we need to scream at them.

They will be straight if they are pressured as happened in that EPIC BATTLE over Spring Green. But turn your backs on them and they will stab you as you also saw in Spring Green. They can not be trusted. They need to be monitored. They need to be looked in the face and held accountable.

I think the day we march to City Hall is not that far away...not far off. We still need some help from Moderator Magee and lots of help from the Naperville Sun in blanketing this alleged "Corruption at City Hall" with stinging coverage. Just as Mr. Jim Lynch said earlier today. We need a CONVICTION of CITY HALL!

Trust me folks, the day of reckoning has arrived.

All those who support the improprieties on City Hall are no longer making any sense. If you have to constantly attack a MESSENGER instead of his/her/its MESSAGE this is an extreme sign of weakness before the implosion takes place.

Turst me folks, we are almost there.

The promised land is around the corner.

Thank you,

CIJ

That definitely does not sound like Jim Lynch.

One last point on Rockford Home Rule

NEVER HAPPENED. They could not even get the signatures for the vote.

THE MAYOR OPPOSED IT. Reason--It gave City Councilmen powers and they could not be trusted. Only a Mayor who has to balance the books and is a singular focus (like Daley in Chicago) can be trusted.

And read the reasons these people wanted home rule.

To make stronger penalties against graffiti damage.
Impose stricter curfews against gang members.
Impose stricter standards against slumlords.

All of these are major problems in Naperville.

TO:

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on October 31, 2009 1:29 AM

Yes its me.

Suggest you let the adrenaline run on word processor software after pasting any quotes you may be responding to.

Don't waste time responding to the personal attacks they are meant as distractions; ignore them, intellectually honest people will see them for what they are.

After its all on the paper (screen); start editing, cutting, summarizing, inserting links to any support article like a WSJ article.

Concise Arguments, points, facts and links leave room for only three reactions: no response, agree or disagree in measure, or personal attack.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Most of the status quo responders (possibly people who directly benefit from the city's coffers)bypass facts and arguments and move directly to the personal attacks and insults. The solution to every problem is more of the existing government structure, spending and policies. Naperville continues to sink in unfunded obligations that got worse during the economic boom. Now over $100 million and sinking. Great management, way to go!

We also have the emboldened far left element who attempt to eliminate opposing points of view using Saul Alinski's tactics. Two frequent stalkers-flakes come to mind: isolate, ridicule, minimize, insult. They seldom post facts or arguments and should be ignored. The answer to every problem is socialism and hyper-liberalism crammed down our throats from DC. This is in addition to brainwashing our kids with left wing propaganda at 203 and 204. The planet will die if we don't make Al Gore into a billionaire.

The only free speech they would allow is theirs. This group is not only dangerous, they are un-American. This group controls DC, Springfield and our schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinski

The only real disagreement between the leaders of both of the above groups is, who gets to loot the country.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then there are those who just want less government; we are all going bankrupt and have totally thrown our children and grandchildren under the bus. Like drowning men, both of the above big government groups are pulling us under with them as big government continues accelerating into national bankruptcy drowning us in a pool of debt and unfunded obligations; $105 Trillion worth.

Moodys is warning on a downgrade of the US credit rating; maybe our parents can co-sign for the US on the next $10 Trillion we will need to borrow from China or Japan? Or should we simply continue to print money?

More like a banana republic every day.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/moodys-ponders-us-downgrade-1325883.html

http://moneynews.newsmax.com/streettalk/buffett_banana_republic/2009/08/19/249871.html

Each of us are now responsible for over $340,000 in unfunded Federal Government obligations, for a family of four you will have to cough up $1.2 million from your household to keep DC fed. Good luck.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To visualize the financial condition of the USA:

Think of a neighbor living in a house they could never afford, with two $600 a month leased cars, taking three vacations a year to Hawaii and staying at the Ritz on the beach. To do this, your neighbor is not only using his credit card to finance his mortgage, lease payments and vacation but has also been using your credit card and equity loans on your house.

In addition, he destroyed your company with cheap imports from a slave labor country with no environmental regulations or legal rights in exchange for the foreign country loaning him money which you will have to repay.

When that isn't enough to keep the party going, your neighbor runs down his basement and prints money on his laser printer eventually making your hard earned savings in dollars worthless, already devalued 97% since 1973, 50% in the last 10 years. This is the Federal Government.

Options:

*Status Quo = National Bankruptcy

*Obama's "socialism for every occasion" cookbook = National Bankruptcy

*Drastically cut government spending and fix the trade deficit by all means necessary = some chance of salvation with the odds getting worse every day the debt increases


By John Q. Public on October 31, 2009 1:29 AM
That definitely does not sound like Jim Lynch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but this very much sounds like Jim Lynch. It also shows you both Mr. Lynch and Mr. Ted Slowik still occasionally review this blog site.

I am also willing to speculate that Jim Lynch saw my comments on the other thread. And I think it was wise of him to make "No Comment" about your false allegations of COLLSUION which you have now apologized for. I believe he chose not to dignify your outrageus remarks of collusion. I suspect if I was telling untruths or my opinions did not have some validation he would have said a word or two. Mr. Lynch is not a man who holds back as you may have witnessed from his last post!

I don't know why you feel that you need to defend corruption in City Hall, Mr. Public unless you are not Mr. Public and really Mr. Public Official. What they have done in that HALL is unimaginable! These people will strip you naked to get their Big Fat Pensions and don't care if you have to live outside in the cold by Mr. Huber AND THEN THEY WILL EVEN THROW YOU OFF THE SIDEWALK if you have no money to live eslewhere. They are cruel HUMAN BEINGS! They are insensitive HUMAN BEINGS! They are sick HUMAN BEINGS!

Mr. Public, the PUBLIC is waking up. Despite all your attacks on me if you read this thread you will see more and more bloggers switching to my position against the incompetence and outrageousness of City Hall.

As I said previously, in the end no matter what people like you attempt to do to a MESSENGER, the MESSAGE will get through and prevail. You were not here in the Napergate Era so you have no clue about what happens if you attempt to attack a MESSENGER armed with a truthful and factual MESSAGE. Let me tell you what will happen....you will get BURNED BEYOND RECOGNITION. You will be creamated......you have almost nearly creamated yourself. Save the remnants of what is left of you while you can. Your credibility has long been shattered. Try to save your organs now in order that you can still function and perform the basic duties to survive without a REPUTATION!

If I were you, I would leave this blog site as you have suggested you would do if what I have been saying is true. Mr. Lynch's non-denial of my version of events is a strong indication he knew what was going on and did the right thing by letting it happen to strengthen the Sun's Blog Site.

The bottom line, the Naperville Sun has an awesome blog site. Mr. West tried to do it the way you would like it done and he failed miserably. If you like his method better, why did you not blog there. I don't think Ted and Jim need to be questioned. They did nothing illegal or improper. They were brilliant men who knew what they had to do to succeed.

They laid a foundation to a very successful blog site and passed the baton on to Moderator Magee who continues to enhance it daily. In due time, I have reason to believe Mr. Magee will take this blog to a new level.

He will make fools of all of you who continue to claim his blog site has hardly any bloggers or readers. It has lots of bloggers and tons of readers. Keep it going Moderator Magee.

I believe one day, Mr. Public would have to eat his words...have eggs in his face! The day is almost here.

Yes, Mr. Public that was the real Jim Lynch....the former Moderator of this Blog Site. The former Publisher/Editor of the Naperville Sun. The former Big Kahuna and Big Boss. Why would anyone have reason to be him after he has been gone for nearly a year and forgotten by many? Plus it is a violation of blog rules to choose the name of another living person. Why would Moderator Magee disobey his one rules? He would not. It seems like the former Moderator may have had some correspondence with the current Moderator since he seems to be telling him there was no libel in the prior post. Could Moderator Magee asked him if there was libel? Or did he just express an opinion on libel since some were beginning to allege I was libeling for simply telling the TRUTH?

Thank you!

CIJ

*Many allege that CIJ dominates this thread.

*A quick look at the Political Thread reveals Blogger "What If" with about every 3rd post and over 100 posts.

*Ironically, many of the same bloggers are there who are here minus CIJ.

*The same bloggers who accuse CIJ of dominating and hijacking do not accuse "What If" of the same. CIJ appears to have one tenth of the posts here.

*It appears to me that CIJ may have a dominating message that is disturbing especially to Naperville Taxpayers.

By Exhausted on October 27, 2009 7:10 PM
..... then consider which services are mandatory, and which are nice but not required ..... I hope that the same people who are screaming the loudest wouldn't be the one's whining the loudest when they didn't get their leaves picked up or their sidewalk cracks fixed......

========================================================================================================================================

Do you have some loose screws? Why should you give the city the option to reduce any of our services such as leaf collection or sidewalk cracks? Those are very important services to the taxpaying residents of Naperville.

Why should our money go to Big Fat Pensions instead of services we pay for, need and are entilted to? Do we want to be the next Rockford, never fix our sidewalks and let the prostitutes and pimps smoke crack on them instead of fill the cracks with our tax money and keep them properly maintained? Do we want to give up our pursuit for Best Town in America in the CNN/MONY ratings just so our City Officials can have Big Fat Everythings! A city with cracked sidewalks will not win any award....that is for sure! Let us not blame all our losses on not having a MOUNTAIN! It is much deeper than that, Mayor Pradel.

Why are you more worried about 100k for leaf collection instead of $3 million for POLICE OT? What is more important donating $100,000 to the EXCHANGE CLUB for POLICE OT or having our leafs picked up.
The EXCHANGE CLUB has tons of money including over a million in cash and securities. It is a private organization. This is where we need to cut and not our services like sidewalk repairs so we can look like a slum neighborhood in Detroit loaded with gangbangers.

I suspect you have loose bearings for recommending insane solutions.

The solution is to eliminate the millions of dollars in OT in all City Departments followed by a 10% cut in wages which has the double effect of putting a dent in the pension liability deficit that has been running away like a locomotive with no brakes. How many times do I have to tell you good folks the pension liability deficit is at $126.2 million? Are you so exhausted that you can no longer understand or comprehend the size of this number?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

You can buy 500 brand new Rolls Royces with this money. You couldn't even line them on both sides of Washington St. from Ogden Avenue to 87th Street. Our tax money is bascially being used to buy Rolls Royces on debt by our City Officials for our City Employees. It is disgusting. I am sorry that your midget brain wants to cut services before we stop buying Rolls Royces for our City Employees in order that they can HIGH ROLL in retirement. Double Dipping Robert Marshall will be able to buy 10 Rolls Royces with only his FIRST POLICE PENSION if he lives to 82. I guess he can use his SECOND PENSION from the IMRF to stretch out his ROLLS ROYCES in case he wants to drink or smoke his cigars in them. With his current salary which is above and beyond his pensions and believed to be over $165k he can hire drivers for his strectched out ROLLS ROYCES.(It is nice to see former Moderator Jim Lynch agrees with me about this Double Dipping Poster Boy Robert Marshall.)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


With incompetents like you blogging and giving our greedy and selfish city officials the option of reducing our services, they will jump on it and never reduce their high salaries, high benefits and high pensions which are the root of all problems in this town.

It is unconsionable that people like you come on this blog site and give our City Officials the option of reducing services. That should never be an option to our drunken pirates. I know I use to call them sailors but the way they separate us from our hard earned dollars, they are worse than the Somali Pirates who are at least hungry as opposed to being greedy and wanting more and more and more of our tax money like our City Officials.

We pay tons of money for services we DESERVE. What the FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE drunken pirates do in City Hall are mostly take our money for their benefits instead of spending it on our services....services we deserve and paid for. And now in your infinite wisdom, Exhausted, you want to allow them to rob us blind? Are you really that ignorant to suggest such things? You are shameless in your proposals!

I really think you need to have your head examined by a psychiatrist if you want any services curtailed based on how much we pay in taxes and how great our tax base is with the McMansions that came on board especially in the last 10 years. Your post amounts to nonsense and puts cracks in the door for city officials to be spendoholics on themselves.

NO SERVICE CUTS!

ONLY PAY-CUTS, OT-CUTS, BENEFITS-CUTS and PENSION-CUTS.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================


PS. I deliberately belittled "Exhausted" because he attempted to belittle me even though I never mentioned him ever in any of my prior posts and never even heard of him. If you don't want to be belittled on this blog site and have me use your heads as mopheads, don't belittle me. Attack my MESSAGE all you want. But please don't attack me the MESSENGER or I will make 10 times the mockery of you as you attempt to MAKE of me.

I think enough bloggers have come on here and explained when you are attacking the MESSENGER instead of his/her/its MESSAGE you are a DEFEATED and USELESS PERSON with no MESSAGE of YOUR OWN.

HAVE A HAPPY HALLOWEEN EVERYONE AND LET US TRY TO BE CIVIL AFTER TONIGHT!

So who is going to make up for the common citizen's 401K going to a 201K? Is the city or county going to bring down tax rates to help us out?

Absolutely not. Our city council( or 5 out of the 9 members) are simply intersted in their own pensions and salaries.

The city council members who voted to raise the tax rate in Naperville are simply irresponsible and should be booted out of office. While I am not in favor of laying city employees off, a 10% salary cut should not be out of the question. Maybe the city should have city employees contribute a bigger share of their medical coverage. Hopefully, the city froze salary increases.

Thank you Naperville City Council for bringing down our 201K to 101K. Just keep cleaning us out. And while you are at it, just keep inflating our property homes so that we can help you more.


CIJ,

That is an awful lot of words you just put in my mouth. You are starting to establish quite a track record of accusing me of things I never said or did. I'm not surprised, though, as straw man arguments and red herrings are part of your standard arsenal.

If I were you, I would leave this blog site as you have suggested you would do if what I have been saying is true. Mr. Lynch's non-denial of my version of events is a strong indication he knew what was going on and did the right thing by letting it happen to strengthen the Sun's Blog Site.

There are a lot more things you've been doing up until now that you wouldn't do if you were me. Nevertheless, if Jim Lynch comes back here and verifies your version of events, and Chris verifies that it is him, I WILL stop posting. This blog would be a complete joke, if that turned out to be true.

You were not here in the Napergate Era so you have no clue about what happens if you attempt to attack a MESSENGER armed with a truthful and factual MESSAGE. Let me tell you what will happen....you will get BURNED BEYOND RECOGNITION. You will be creamated......you have almost nearly creamated yourself. Save the remnants of what is left of you while you can. Your credibility has long been shattered. Try to save your organs now in order that you can still function and perform the basic duties to survive without a REPUTATION!

My credibility is and will remain intact regardless of anything else that happens. You have not ever been able to lay a finger on my credibility, let alone a glove. Even though you have claimed that I lie, you cannot point to a single lie that I have ever told on this blog, because, while I have mistakenly posted incorrect information, I have never deliberately said anything I knew to be untrue. You cannot say the same about yourself, now, can you?

As for the Napergate Man, as near as I can tell, he won a long term legal battle with the city over the denial of his liquor license because he happened to be in the right. I can't imagine that his ads had any effect on the decision of the courts, however. He also apparently helped mobilized his neighbors to prevent a gas station from being built at a busy intersection on a section of Naper Blvd. that is sorely in need of more gas stations. What a victory for the forces of truth and justice.

Then, of course, he endorsed four candidates for city council, all of whom won. Was this all or mostly his doing? You seem to think so. If your word meant anything to me, I might be inclined to believe you. Apparently his ads stopped shortly after these events, and he disappeared from the Naperville public's radar screen to whatever extent he had been on it. What happened? Did everything he'd been railing against in the city suddenly become to his liking? Or did he realize that his ads were a waste of money because nobody was really taking them or him seriously? I don't know. I DO know, though, that he has not been quite as inactive in his "retirement" as has been pretended.

Finally, I am not surprised you want me to go, just as I am not surprised at your fantasy of speaking uninterrupted for one hour to the City Council. You just don't seem to be able to get used to having somebody talk back to you and challenge your ideas and point out your inaccuracies and baseless allegations. Still, I may just stop "attacking" you in this way. What I've done probably doesn't serve much purpose, as your campaign of misinformation is not likely to amount to much. I'm pretty much convinced that you will continue to be your own worst enemy, and that any rational person who's tempted to sign on to your crusade will soon see that you are radioactive, that being on the same team with you is counterproductive to the realization of any goals they may have in common with you.

-JQP

P.s. to Chris. You certainly know Jim Lynch better than anyone else on this blog. The specific part of "Jim's" post that caused me to question it was this sentence: This is especially true while civil servants i.e. Bob Marshall, to name just one, continues to feed at the double-dip trough.? Does this sound to you like something he would say?

Still, I may just stop "attacking" you in this way. What I've done probably doesn't serve much purpose, as your campaign of misinformation is not likely to amount to much.
-JQP

========================================================================================================================================

Yes, John, it would be wise if you would stop your senseless attacks. Attacking me is counterproductive and only results in counterattacks on yourself. If you get in a good fist fight both parties get bloodied. So do you think you can bloody me without getting bloodied. I think T.B. realized that and called for a truce and I have accepted his truce. I think we both realize attacks and counterattacks do no good. I would like to be civil with him as I would like to be civil with you. Why JQP do you not want to be civil? If you don't like my positions on government waste and high taxes, give your own position without mentioning me.

Why can't you make a wise decision like T.B. did? Do you think I am not happy to have a truce with T.B.? Do you think I enjoy attacking him? I don't. Do you think I enjoy being attacked by him? I don't.

If I want this to be about me I would ask you guys to continue attacking me day and night so it would be about ME. But I am here to promote a cause....to promote a Napergate Stlye Blog Site in which we can call for bodies to come to City Hall and stand up to the FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE in our City Council.....5 of them for sure. That is my agenda. It is no hidden secret. I want to blast city officials until I can knock some sense into them. I can not believe anyone who has been bloggging here with ME for 3.5 years does not understand what my agenda and cause are.

It should be obvious I am not here to attack bloggers. I think it is silly to attack an Anonymous Handle or Moniker. I am here holding my FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE City Officals accountable. Look at how Exhausted attacked me while I never heard of him. This is what happens each and every time. An attmept is made to hurt MY MESSAGE by attacking the MESSENGER. Therefore I will continue counter-attacking anyone who attacks ME. I will exhaust those who attack me as I am apparently now exhausting you as you are suggesting you MAY stop. Let us hope so! If you stop, I will have achieved my GOAL. It is silly, JQP, living on this blog site as a "STALKER IN DISGUISE." If you have something to say about taxes....say it. That is all I am doing. Why can't you focus on taxes instead of me? You told me use one handle and you will get off my case. I have done that and you remain on my case. This shows you are a deceptive individual with no credibility. You stooped to extreme lows by breaking your word to me even though I apologized for my practice in the past that may have offended some even though it was within blog rules and guidelines. I guess now you are upset that my new handle may have some credibility and a reputation of sorts. If that is the case, I am sorry, but you and others forced me into picking a UNIQUE HANDLE and I simply obliged.

What is it that you want, Mr. Public or Public Official. Multiple handles, anonymous handles all the time, or one handle with a unique title. Obviously it is not the HANDLE that is eating away at you....it my MESSAGE! Move on JQP! You are losing your respect daily as I expose the gang that you are part of which is trying to SMOTHER my MESSAGE.

One thing we have exposed with certainty, thread after thread, is that I do not initiate these silly attacks. I know my only weakness is I feel a need to respond to them. But maybe it is not a weakness since bloggers are trying to destory MY MESSAGE by attacking ME, the MESSENGER and if I did nothing, they may succeed. This way they can not succeed. Many, many people have swung to my opinion including "Napervillian" last night.

So I will keep plugging away. I know my VIEWPOINT has many more supporters today than it did a month ago. Ask yourself, JQP, if you have more or less supporters today than a month ago since you don't even have a VIEWPOINT because it is about the EGO of your handle? That should tell you if you are headed in the right direction or wrong direction. I know MY VIEWPOINTS are headed in the right direction and gaining steam daily. I can honestly feel the heat being generated from the steam of my CAUSES. I can see residents waking up which has always been my GOAL. I can see many many people attacking these Big Fat Pensions that only I was attacking 3 years ago. People almost got tired of my mentioning Big Fat Pensions. But I repeated myself until they finally understood what I was saying. Now that they understood me, they understand these Big Fat Pensions have caused a serious FINANCIAL CRISIS in our lovely town that we all adore.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I was reading some City Reports a little while ago that stated City Officials want to increase the Pension Contributions to FFs about a million dollars ANNUALLY. They also want to increae the Pension Contributions to POs another million dollars ANNUALLY. And yes we TAXPAYERS will pay for this even though they GAMBLED their money away that we gave them and lost it on risky stocks. UNBELIEVABLE! It appears we may be paying these 2 UNIONS over 25% in Matching Contributions since our City Officials are not only missing spines but an entire backbone structure.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Just like "Napervillian" said. They are taking his 201k that was once a 401k and making it a 101k. He gets it. Why don't you get it, JQP? How can you defend this craziness in City Hall? How can you defend public officials increasing their benefits on your back, unless just maybe, you are not Mr. Public but Mr. Public Official. Sometimes if it smells like a skunk it is a skunk....if it walks like a duck it is a duck! You smell and walk like Mr. Public Official. People will see through you and your denials will never be believed as your words and deeds have exposed you for what you are.

And this blog is not read by anyone!?!?! New people come on everyday to blog and many more to quietly read.

What kind of crediblity do you and your friends have on this Blog Site when you even attack the blog site for not having enough viewers. Why attack it? Why not ask Moderator Magee to provide hits or views as Host Ted did? Why not get the facts instead of spew misinformation with your ilk in tow? Why not help the blog site prosper instead of constantly cutting it down?

I hope I never see you at BlackFinn Amercian Saloon since they employed a similar tactic that you find REPRENSIBLE but has made them extremely successful nationwide in almost an instanteous manner.

I am surprised you would even question Jim and Ted. They did nothing illegal or immoral to achieve their massive success. Do you wish they failed like Mr. West? I bet you do so the MESSAGE of CORRUPTION in this town would remain buried. Now you are suddenly putting down the Napergate Man. Who will you put down next, Mr. Public Official? Homeless Striker Scott Huber who refuses help from City Hall so he can keep our taxes down?

Do you think your tactics, antics and acrobatics will cover up for these BIG FAT PENSIONS?

For you dummies that think only 20 people blog here and no one reads it, my advice is get off of a blog site you don't respect. I know both City Council Members and City Staff read this blog site in increasing numbers. And I know they hate it too, because it is exposing them just like the Napergate Man exposed them.

If you would review the Napergate ads as I did, if you would get off your butt and go to the library as I did, you will see graphs by the Napergate Man exposing waste in most City Departments notably the LEGAL DEPARTMENT in his time. He did a lot more than fight a gas station in his SUBDIVISION. Spring Green, I believe was his final battle for whatever reason. It was not his ONLY BATTLE. He fought many including another one called SW GATE about encroaching commercialism into another subdivision. Why speak about subjects you are not familiar with and make a fool of yourself on this blog site? You been here a year or two and you are acting like you know more than the natives and near natives of this town? Why you not study the HISTORY of this town instead of run your diarehea mouth and motor tongue day and night? Try to gain some knowledge!

Keep in mind the Napergate Man began fighting City Hall in 1982-1983 when he had another legal battle that went to the Supreme Court and he won 9-0.That was only about his liquor license(s). He could have finally become exhausted after battling City Hall for nearly 2 decades. Maybe he decided, it was time to move on, enjoy life, focus on his kids, and let others grab the baton. No one ever said he was SUPERMAN. It was only said he was the Napergate Man who uncovered cover-ups in City Hall in the same exact way many bloggers on this Napergate Style Blog Site are attempting to do in ever increasing numbers.

I am a little tired after 3.5 years trying to get my MESSAGE across. So imagine going on for nearly 19 years as the Napergate Man apparently did. He had many ads that can be found in Sun Newspapers before his Epic Napergatge Series. I see now you are putting down the Napergate Man. I really think, Mr. John Q. Public that you are a man of very low esteem. A man with an inferiorty complex who needs to put down others. Look at your posts. They are not about the subject matter on the threads. They are about attacks and attacks.

I hate to steal Diane G's words but you are SHAMEFUL! And I will add you are utterly DISGUSTING. Stop your NONSENSE and blog about the subjects on the threads and not CIJ. Get over your obsession of me and stop STALKING ME! In real life a stalker of your magnitude would have been ARRESTED, JAILED and CONVICTED of STALKING!

Arrest the STALKER, NPD!

Need I say more......

Thank you,

CIJ


City Service Cuts


Like always, the various government bodies will cut highly visible, then critical services to punish the taxpayers for not supporting their cost structure, cronies and policies. "We'll show em".

Last year, Dist 203 was going to make the kindergartners cross busy streets to save money on diesel fuel for school buses. This is while ladling out pay increases to the unions and administration in the middle of a drastic multi-year-recession (depression) that is still getting worse despite hyper-insane-spending in DC with our credit card.

The attitude that oozes from City Hall (and 203 and 204) is you are privileged to live in "our city". The implied "royal we" are the Naperville establishment and various groups, including the unions, that made out like bandits during the 30 year boom in Naperville.

After the current group of homeowners is completely ground up financially, the group think establishment believes they can bring in a new crop of homeowner that are willing to pay whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.

If our current residents can't afford the City, who can?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CIJ

You're too late, Downtown Naperville, and the surrounding neighborhoods, already look like Detroit with empty derelict buildings, and shoddy maintenance on investor and developer owned shabby rental properties.

City Council should force the Building Department and Code Enforcement to do their job and either bring the shacks up to code or force the developers and slumlords to tear them down.

The war zone looking properties on Washington and Benton would be a good start, now derelict for at least 5 years. At a minimum, the city should inspect the inside of the properties to see if they are being used for party or crack houses, they wouldn't be the first vacant buildings in the downtown used for this purpose.

If the City Manager is unable to get Building and Code to do their jobs, terminate him and bring in someone who can.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can someone list the City Council Members and how they voted, plus when they are up for re-election.

I always suspect that we are being gamed by the best City Council the Developers can finance during elections.

CIJ,

Thank you for sharing, LOL!

-JQP

JQP,

It it great to see you finally quiet down.

I hope you are done with your attacks and not just "MAY."

Let us have peace, quiet and civility.

Thank you,

CIJ

PS. I would be happy to have a TRUCE with you like the one I have with TB so I can focus my energy on exposing improprieties at City Hall. That is my cause and that is why I am here.

PS. II If my taxes are raised from the 70k per year to 75k or 80k per year, no one in City Hall will ever have a peaceful day in their lives. That I can promise you. I will make sure they have nightmares in their sleep as they may already be experiencing. I want them to wake up from their deep sleep(possibly comas) because they see a PODIUM being thrown at them viciously after CIJ delivers his 3 minute speech. I want to pound their heads in with the Mayor's gavel until I wake them up....

by CIJ- PS. II If my taxes are raised from the 70k per year to 75k or 80k per year, no one in City Hall will ever have a peaceful day in their lives. That I can promise you. I will make sure they have nightmares in their sleep as they may already be experiencing. I want them to wake up from their deep sleep(possibly comas) because they see a PODIUM being thrown at them viciously after CIJ delivers his 3 minute speech. I want to pound their heads in with the Mayor's gavel until I wake them up....


Wow, is that a threat? I want them to wake up and know who you are so they can be adequately protected.

P.s. to Chris. You certainly know Jim Lynch better than anyone else on this blog. The specific part of "Jim's" post that caused me to question it was this sentence: This is especially true while civil servants i.e. Bob Marshall, to name just one, continues to feed at the double-dip trough.? Does this sound to you like something he would say?


========================================================================================================================================

For all those who do not believe the former Editor/Publisher of the Naperville Sun came and blogged here, I think you are in extreme denial.

I suspect some may think it is ME.

****************************************************************************************************************************************

But since you are all experts in handwriting analysis let me give you some tips.

1. In 3.5 years, I never used "i.e." anywhere or ever.

2. I have never called them "Civil Servants." I have called them City Officials, City Staff and City Council Members.

3. I have never used the word "double-dip trough." I use the words Double Dipping and Double Dipper.

4. Moderator Magee should be able to track the IP number as I suspect it is from out of this region. IP numbers from the East Coast should differ from Midwest IP numbers.

5. Moderator Magee should stop babying John Q. Public and give him a DOZE of TRUTH once in a while instead of pampering him with Charmin all the time.

****************************************************************************************************************************************

If you are experts in WRITING ANALYSIS as many of you allege, you would notice these differences very easily. I did and I am not an EXPERT in HANDWRITING ANALYSIS...lol..

Yes, his post was very HARD HITTING. He does not now have to worry about losing potential PROFESSIONAL COURTESY now when he is stopped by a Naperville Police Officer since to the best of my knowledge he left town and may have left back to his roots on the East Coast or wherever he landed another job. Hopefully, he landed a job in this depression that has been particularly rough on the newspaper business.

Of course he is happy he does not live here especially if he remanins unemployed. It would make him sick to watch the Benefits Manager on live cable TV asking for increased dental coverage for city employees at taxpayer expense....subsidized by the taxpayer in other words.....especially if he did not have a job and still lived in Naperville.

He is right! The Naperville Sun should have done blanket coverage of her REMARKS. They were INSANE REMARKS made in a recession/depression. Why did the Sun not blanket cover those FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE remarks in order that the taxpayers be fully informed? If Sun Officials pay 90% of their benefits how could they be happy with money coming out of their pockets to subsidize 90% of the benefits of others. Where is the outrage Sun Officials? Don't worry about your PROFESSIONAL COURTESY. Worry about City Officials robbing you and us BLIND for their selfish BENEFITS!

Why was there no picture of Junior Krieger in the Naperville Sun looking at her with approval when she asked if we could just screw the taxpayers a little more.....JUST A LITTLE MORE UP THE W...... (I wish you would let me use that W word again, Mr. Magee. It would be so appropriate. Please give me my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH back! You are not being fair since it is used on BROADCAST TV in commercials during prime time and no one has ever objected. I promise to use it less often if you give me my rights back....lol...)

You guys in City Hall should be ashamed of yourselves asking for more coverage on your benefits packages when you only pay 10% while we taxpayers subsidize you to the tune of 90%. This is totally unacceptable. It is reprehensible! It is shameful!

And last night I had to read that the Drunken Pirates in City Hall want to increases taxes to cover these skyrocketing pension costs and benefits.

You can not blame everything on the State of Illinios. We know the people who wrote the Constituion are crazy. We know the State Officials in Springfield are crazy.

Does that give our City Officals an excuse to act crazy if they are not truly crazy? I think NOT!

You can fight both pension costs and benefits cost. This is in your power and not just state power.

========================================================================================================================================

1. The state does not dictate the salaries of employees. The salary of employees more than anything determines our pension costs.

2. Give a starting cop or fireman, 40k to start instead of 60k to start and you will decrease their Pension Pay-Outs (that we taxpayers are now subsidizing to the tune of 25% through taxpayer contributions) by 33%. You don't need an MBA or CPA to figure that one out.

3. If you feel the UNIONS got you between a rock and a hard place because of state rules on pensions, fight them on the benefits packages and make them pay 90% instead of 10%.

4. Use that money from their paychecks and pump that into their pension funds instead of squeezing us taxpayers for 2 million more dollars for the P and F Pension Funds next year so they can sit in rocking chairs at age 52 and rock and roll their lives away while we taxpayers carry the heavy load like DONKEYS. Is that fair?

5. Unemployment is very high in this country, state and our city. Are you telling me you can not find 22 year old qualified police officers and fire fighters to start at 40k per year instead of 60k per year? Nonsense, just try and see. You will have lines of people applying. Or are these jobs sacred for your inner circle of relatives and friends so it is important to keep the salaries high??? Does anyone in City Hall receive a kick back when paying these 22 year olders 60k and promising them a 75% pension at age 52?

Just asking....not accusing! I have to wonder because many brave young men joined the armed forces and truly risk their lives for 12k a year. Are these 22 year olders not qualified to be fire fighters or police officers? Some are Navy Seals that can do push ups while both a FF and PO sit on their backs. Since they are doing public service with major risk to limb and life for 12k a year why would they not be willing to do public service with minor risk to limb and life for 40k a year? Are millions in the armed forces not qualified to be Naperville Cops or FFs? Or are these jobs based on CRONYISM? Does anyone have any answers? How about you Mr. Jim Lynch? Hopefully Google will tell you I am writing about you.....never heard of that feature but I think it is awesome that you may have been tipped off.

6. While it is true some suburbs are stupid enough to pay starting cops and firemen, 60k per year, most suburbs are not ignorant. The Fiscally Responsible Suburbs are not stupid enough to pay 20k more than they need to.

7. Unions come to our City Officials showing them this 60k other suburbs pay during negotiations. I suspect our City Officials are lazy and do not provide the names of 40 suburbs who pay 40k or less for starting POs and FFs. They do not know how to negotiate.

8. We should not buy what we can not afford. We obviously can not afford 60k FFs and POs. We are $14.1 million in the hole trying to do that.

9. All of us look at these awesome 3-5 million dollar McMansions in Naperville and wish we could afford them. But most of us know we can not and do not make the stupid decision of buying one only to have to foreclose and then file for bankrupcty.

10. Our drunken sailors do exactly what we would not do, because they know they can increase our taxes in good times as well as bad times. Yes, as Anonymous said trying to squeeze our services is a way to pressure us to pay up for their despicable ways of waste.


========================================================================================================================================


That is why I am saying no cuts in service anywhere in the City. We need our services. We pay for our services with HIGH TAXES.

We don't need POs and FFS sitting in rocking chairs at age 52. We don't need Community Development Officials and Building Inspectors possibly sitting in rocking chairs while in their offices at City Hall right now. I can not imagine what they are doing with development at a near STANDSTILL. Are they surfing the net gambling more taxpayer money away on off-shore casino sites? What the h$ll are they doing, Junior Krieger? Trust me if you are allowing incompetence and looking the other way, you will pay for it with your TERMINATION. We will file a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against you personally if you continue to allow TAXPAYER MONEY to be squandered as it has been in the past. Mark my words, Mr. Krieger. Shape up or ship out. I promise you we will have more demonstators next April 15 at our TAX PROTEST than last April 15 and tell your snipers on City Hall to hold their fire. Where do you think we are? Communist China to threaten us with bullets when we protest peacefully? How dare you allow such nonsense by our PD?

And we should be sensitive to anyone we lay off. Let us lay-off everyone in City Hall who is double dipping first. If we lay off a double dipper we are not throwing a body in a street or sidewalk next to Mr. Scott Huber.

Double Dipping Mr. Marshall can live fine on his 100k pension that increase 3% a year. So his position of Assistant Manager should be considered for elimination and not low level City Employees who are not receiving a ridiculously inflated pension.

Are you telling me all those City Officials in City Hall can not pick up the work of ONE MAN when everything is slower in our City including City Hall. Does an Assistant City Manager need to keep tabs on Building Inspectors who have almost nothing to do?

Keep one Building Inspector to check on the rare person who can get a loan to remodel his basement or put an addition on his home in this time when most banks have frozen loans. I don't see any of that going on but let us keep one just in case. But why are we hanging on to all the others. How can we afford to hang on to them?
Can't we give them a 3 month notice and tell them to look for a job immediately? After that, they can collect unemployment benefits for 9 months. Thus we are throwing no one on the streets to starve.

I never said we should not lay EXCESS FAT off. I said don't throw them on the street. Help them get new jobs. Find placement services to help them. Send them to Plainfield to see if they will take jobs for half price so they can survive until the building boom resumes there. The BUILDING BOOM is over in Naperville. The land is 99% developed. Why are we hanging on to folks in City Hall we don't need and have no use for? Is it because of cronyism? Is it because they are related to top ranking City Officials? Do they have relatives at the Brestal Law Firm? What the h$ll is going on in City Hall? Someone please tell me.

Where is the blanket coverage, Naperville Sun, that your former BOSS is suggesting? Where are the stinging opinions and columns he wants to see?

Your former boss is pretty much telling you folks in the Sun that you have been NEGLIGENT in your duties of keeping tabs on City Hall. That he would have done things much differently.

I second his MOTION!

Please heed his advice.

Thank you!

CIJ

Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 1, 2009 6:03 PM

What the h$ll are they doing, Junior Krieger? Trust me if you are allowing incompetence and looking the other way, you will pay for it with your TERMINATION. We will file a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against you personally if you continue to allow TAXPAYER MONEY to be squandered as it has been in the past. Mark my words, Mr. Krieger. Shape up or ship out.

---------------------------------------

And what, praytell will be your cause of action for your class action lawsuit? Will it sound in tort or contract? What will be your standing to bring the suit? If it will sound as an extraordinary writ, which one will it be?

Forensic Accountant Experienced,

As you know I am not an attorney.

But if the City of Naperville continues to waste money in this fashion, I have no choice but to retain an attorney to see if we can file a Class Action Lawsuit against the City of Naperville. IT WILL BE MY HOPE AND HIS/HER DECISION!

They have abused the taxpayer like no other town.

They are not representing the taxpayers anymore. They are representing their self-interests. This really bothers me.

This really became obvious to me when the Benefits Manager attempted to buy a better and more expensive policy of dental benefits for the City Employees and presented it before the City Council with not the slightest objection by Junior Krieger as he smiled at her like he was proud of her. I just could not believe I was seeing this before my eyes and that it was being recorded on video, disc or a hard drive.

========================================================================================================================================

City Hall has lost so much credibility I am now beginning to wonder for the first time if the elections are somehow now rigged like in Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq?

I just can not imagine truly elected officials would choose to side with the police and fire unions instead of the tax paying residents who elected them and pay their salaries, benefits, and small pensions.

========================================================================================================================================

I am honestly beginning to wonder how many police and firemen who were/are employed have connections to City Hall???

I only have the ability to loosen the walls around the damn. But I think the self-destruction occurring in City Hall will break the damn wide open and eventually we will see what is happening in Peg's Palace and the Taj Mahal.

When I pass by, I can smell the stink coming out of those buildings from both sides of Aurora Ave. Where there is stink their usually is feces. We will just have to see how bad the feces is...how big it is. Let us hope the feces did not hit the ceiling fans yet but my gut tells me it did.

You know some of the folks running City Hall are not straight. Weren't you the gentleman who exposed that they were trying to hide the records pertaining to the $20.5 million Pension Fund losses in the same way the Napergate Man found they were trying to hide the $10 million costs in his Napergate Trials? Just asking a simple question???

Kudos to you and the Napergate Man for uncovering your respective cover-ups. A STANDING OVATION to both of YOU. And another STANDING OVATION to HOMELESS STRIKER Scott Huber who called them a bunch of Aristocratic Bureaucratic Elitists. He has them figured out. God Bless him.

Did you guys know that Mr. Huber told the City Council he chooses to be homeless rather than wasting taxpayer money? Amazing from a man who lives on $3000 of fumes per year. I have been visiting him with small donations and commending his bravery. Please think of him when you feel like giving. At least your money will not be gobbled up in administrative fees and NPD OT.

Honestly a good feeling will come over you when you contribute directly to a person in need. When I paid the donation cover charge for 2 days at the PigFest to perform my investigate duties I had a rotten feeling that told me I should be ashamed of myself for helping an organization that hoards over a million dollars in banks, cash and securities, while those it claims to help are suffering. .

Keep you eyes on City Hall, Experienced. What you are uncovering is the same thing the Napergate Man uncovered. It is a pattern of continuous and apparent improprieties. When your contingent meets with City Officlals to point to them that there is a pattern, it will help your cause in CHANGING THEM.....in EXPOSING THEM to the residents....or whatever you choose to do as it is your situation that you unearthed.

The Napergate Man was credible. He said they refused to disclose the costs of the Napergate Trials despite FOIA Requests from his attorneys. Editor Tim West also tried and failed. I don't know if he also filed an FOIA Request.

So for you to say you don't care about the past indicates you are being possibly negligent in your investigation by failing to show a pattern exists. A pattern sometimes is what is takes to bring City Hall tumbling and crumbling down the West Branch of the Dupage River.

City Hall is sitting on a very weak foundation. One time the walls in the underground garage all began cracking and they had to fix them before the building fell on itself.

This times it appears to be much worse!!!

Thank you!

CIJ

Wow CIJ.

A chunk of a post devoted to defending yourself against non-accusations. Amazing. Anyway, it seems odd that a newspaper editor would not use the subjunctive when needed and also not have the correct verb tense in:

This is especially true while civil servants i.e. Bob Marshall, to name just one, continues to feed at the double-dip trough.?

By the way, I note that you did use the subjunctive in your post. Hmm....I could go into a big back and forth like between Vizzini and the Dread Pirate Roberts in the Battle of Wits scene, but I won't. Also, there are ways to mask IP addresses so that has little to no value. Only with direct confirmation can we know.

On topic: The increase in pension costs (state mandate) are making even 5-10% cuts in other sections of the budget insufficient to prevent a rise in total tax levy. Health insurance and dental coverage costs must be contained and redistributed in any new contract.

-1

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 2, 2009 1:27 AM

As you know I am not an attorney.

But if the City of Naperville continues to waste money in this fashion, I have no choice but to retain an attorney to see if we can file a Class Action Lawsuit against the City of Naperville. IT WILL BE MY HOPE AND HIS/HER DECISION!

----------------------------------------------------------

Then maybe the answer to your plight is at the ballot box. There is still the principle of separation of powers in the U.S.

That last one was mine.

By Jeff on October 25, 2009 10:27 PM
Thank you CIJ.
Thanks for increasing awareness about this extremely unfair pension system. It's only natural for those who benefit by confiscating the dollars of struggling private sector workers to attack you when you draw attention to this problem. Don't let them deter you.

I am with you 100% and support your hard work.

When will those of us in the private sector who fight to try to pay for their own retirments be relieved of the burden of carrying our "public servants" on our straining backs? Who is serving who here?

The reaction you see from your opponents are exactly what you would expect when you try to keep a little bit of your own money from their greedy hands.


========================================================================================================================================


Thank you, Jeff.

I am sorry I initially missed your nice post as it was posted on an archived thread. But I feel lucky I ran into it accidentally.

I decided to repost it on this ACTIVE THREAD.

Your words of encouragement mean so much to me.

I have been pumping away for 3.5 years on this Pension Issue hoping someone would listen. I never gave up hope even though at times Moderators and Hosts got fed up with me. The current Moderator appears to be much more understanding these days as he may have finally grasped the gravity of the situation when it was determined our Accured Actuarial Pension Liability Deficit skryrocketed to $126.2 million and it is we who have to eliminate this deficit and not the recipients of the Big Fat Pensions in City Hall, the Police Dept. and the Fire Dept.

But it seems like it has all finally paid off as people like you and many others are finally speaking out including the former Editor/Publisher of the Naperville Sun who lambasted City Officials.

"Napervillian" also had some nice words and really seemed to have a grasp as to what is going on just like you do.

The attacks on ME the Messenger instead of my HONEST MESSAGE about PENSIONS have really been vicious as anyone can see. They have been relentless but being a student of the Napergate Man, I knew it was coming but not to this extent. Nevertheless I have not been deterred. Have no fear! I have stood STEADFAST against the folks at City Hall as more people gradually grasp my MESSAGE of OUTRAGE.

This pension inequality is nothing new. I did not discover it but City Officials like to keep it as secret as possible. It was brought up by the Napergate Man numerous times but quickly forgotten with his retirement. I just felt an obligation to continue his unfinished work and legacy He was the one that really saw right through it like a knife through butter even in good old times. He forcasted 15 years ago that this PENSION SYSTEM WILL IMPLODE. People laughed at him but I don't think anyone is laughing anymore. NOT when it stands at a $126.2 million deficit and getting worse in good times and drastic in bad times.

I finally realized those who attack me day and night are the recipients of these Big Fat Pensions. It seems like the attacks are much more sustained and vicious during regular business hours which leads me to believe that they are City Sanctioned ATTACKS on taxpayer time.

I finally realized this gentleman calling himself Mr. Public was really Mr. Public Official. It seems to me like the City of Naperville has retained him to stalk me and to tell lies about me. But I am confident he has been exposed along with all of his ilk. It seems like he is about to give up as he has become just a bit to obvious with his around the clock stalking. Truly amazing that anyone who was not paid would stalk another person 24/7.

Please keep spreading the word, Jeff. What City Officials have done to taxpayers is UNCONSIONABLE! And they think I am not nice because I try to tell the citizens the truth. That I am an irritating MESSENGER...lol...

Thank you,

CIJ

CIJ wrote:

I finally realized those who attack me day and night are the recipients of these Big Fat Pensions.

Finally??? You've been saying this about your critics for about as long as I can remember! Almost as soon as someone points out one of your inaccuracies, or comes up with a logical counter-argument to one of your points you accuse him of being a city official, or having some other self-serving motive. About the only exception I could think of to this mccarthyistic tactic of yours was me...

...until now, LOL!:

I finally realized this gentleman calling himself Mr. Public was really Mr. Public Official. It seems to me like the City of Naperville has retained him to stalk me and to tell lies about me.

In these difficult economic times I could certainly use the extra money, but no, I am not in the employ of the city of Naperville---or any other government entity, for that matter. Having said this, I know you will probably continue to level this "accusation" at me, but it will be just one more arrow in your arsenal of misinformation.

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to identify any lies that I have ever told (and, no, being wrong about something is not the same thing as lying).

-JQP

By -1 on November 2, 2009 7:17 AM
Wow CIJ.

A chunk of a post devoted to defending yourself against non-accusations. Amazing. Anyway, it seems odd that a newspaper editor would not use the subjunctive when needed and also not have the correct verb tense in:

This is especially true while civil servants i.e. Bob Marshall, to name just one, continues to feed at the double-dip trough.?

========================================================================================================================================

I have little doubt that Moderator Magee knows with 100% certainty that this post is not mine even though he may not be 100% certain it is from the former Publisher/Editor of the Naperville Sun.

While you have the ability to change the LAST few numbers on your IP address, you do not have the ability to change the FIRST few numbers on your IP which may indicate your carrier and/or region of country.

Maybe the Moderator would be kind enough to tell us that JIM LYNCH is 100% not CIJ. I believe he knows that as he has a better grasp of IP addresses than most.

He has been soft on you folks. As he sees that I am the MAINSTREAM and you are a bunch of organized City Officials blogging on taxpayer time, I believe he will finally stop being so soft on you. The kiddy Kindergarten gloves that he uses will come off at some point....hopefully sooner than later!

Thank you!

CIJ

A newspaper reporter or editor is not required to be an A+ student in grammar. There are people in newspapers who correct articles and opinions for grammar, spelling and what have you after they are submitted by reporters and opinion editors. No one is perfect in this world. So don't try to be a smart-a-lic. Mr. Lynch was not writing a column for the NYTimes....he was simply writing a few comments quickly on a blog site that NO ONE READS...lol!!!!

It is possible that people on the EAST COAST are even reading this blog site...lol...again.

CIJ

To pry the information loose from City Hall would require an FOI filed by an attorney.

City Hall will blow you off if they don't think your FOI request will land them in court.

I'm surprised that the SUN didn't follow up with their attorneys on their unfilled FOIs. While its desirable to maintain a good relationship with City Hall it shouldn't be a the cost of truth and integrity.

Follow the money from zoning and permits, start with the Northern Trust building's parking gift from the City that was capitalized a few weeks later with the sale of the building at a nice mark up.

The pensions funds are pork barrel politics emanating from the centers of corruption in the USA: Chicago and their satellite operation Springfield.

Again if the City Manager can't figure out how to attack the problem without sticking it to the taxpayers, find a new City Manager. It's not a popularity contest.

If this means strikes by the unions, then lets get it on. Same goes for 203 and 204. I know plenty of parents who are sitting home looking for a job that can't handle any more cost increases.

Mr. Public Official,

I have proven you are a STALKER.

All you do is follow me around this blog site slicing, dicing, chopping and distorting my words, ideas and MESSAGE.

You even skip lunch to attack me or attack me on your employer's time. That shows how obsessed you are with ME instead of my MESSAGE.

If you don't agree with my MESSAGE, reread the Heading on the Thread and discuss it in your own way.

Tell people that Fire Fighters who leave the Fire House a few times a day and do little to nothing the rest of the day should be paid more than soldier in the ARMED FORCES truly risking life and limb.

Tell them it is OK to pay them 5 times what a NAVY SEAL makes.

Remind them the job is so difficult that in Glen Ellyn the Fire Dept. is manned with volunteers and only 4 Full Time or Part-Time Professionals. Yes, volunteers do what our FFs do for 60k starting salaries at age 22 and 75k pension retirements at AGE 52 with 3% annual increases till they or their spouse or dependent leave this earth. Unbelieveable!

Tell them we can not recruit POs and FFs at 40k when all the branches of the military can recruit at 12k per year fine men and women just as strong, brave and intelligent as our POs and FFs.

Yes, starting POs and FFs at 60k per year while they are only 22 appears to be the ROOT of the PROBLEM that has led to this PENSION FIASCO. That is the CITY'S FAULT. The state does not dictate starting salaries, raises or ending salaries.

Forcing us to pay them 75% PENSION BENEFITS of their FINAL and HIGHEST PAY at age 52 is the STATE'S FAULT.

Possibly or probably giving them promotions or raises just before RETIREMENT to increase their PENSION BENENFITS is the CITY'S FAULT.

This has all been very costly.

Yes, we are $126.2 million in the hole of which $96.2 million is from the Police and Fire Fighters even though this constitutes only 38% of the City Work Force. They are unionized and our City Council has not dealt with them properly. They have shown no BACKBONE towards the unions.

Our City Council had the opportunity to join the NW SUBURBS according to a BLOGGER to look into abolishing PENSIONS and they refused to join.

They would rather see us taxpayers suffer.

========================================================================================================================================

One has to do an investigation and see how many of our police officers and fire fighters are relatives, friends, in-laws or whatever to our City Officials and City Council Members.

The mother of the Naperville Sun, the Sun-Times does these investigations almost weekly. Why does the daughter not follow in the footsteps of her mother?


========================================================================================================================================

Something is wrong in City Hall. Don't believe them when they say it is all the State's Fault.

Home Rule is good if you don't have drunken sailors running your town and voluntarily hold themselves to STATE CAPS on spending and taxation.

But how is HOME RULE good when it is used to increase taxes by 11.3% when the STATE CAP rate was only 2.5% despite the city being loaded with McMansions, tons of retail and many high rise office buildings on the Tollway Corridor.

This information was posted and a link provided by Thomas Higgins who most of you along myself find CREDIBLE. They were later reposted by Enough and Experienced.

How dare our City Officials spend more than 4.5 times the state cap in 2007 and tell us HOME RULE is good! Good for what! To screw us out of our hard earned tax dollars so they can sit in rocking chairs at age 52 or DOUBLE DIP if they are in cohoots with the ESTABLISHMENT.

Does anyone know if former Sgt. Ray McClury of the NPD is also DOUBLE DIPPING as the HEAD of the NAPERVILLE PARK DISTRICT? Or does he need a few more years? Is he working on a second pension as Poster Boy Robert Marshall? What is going on in this Stepford Wives Town that is requiring 11.3% increases in our real estate tax bills as occurred in 2007.

Why does not the Naperville Sun do its duty and find out if Ray McClury is also double dipping? The taxpayers should be fully informed so we can come to proper conclusions about potential and/or probable improprieties in our city.

Let us stop the personal attacks and investigate City Hall just like the Napergate Man did in the 90s. He found improprieties throughout the City in almost every department. The culture in City Hall has not changed. Many of the same officials of the 90's are still with us and will soon pass this POISON CULTURE of City Hall to the next generation.

We must stop it NOW! Please participate in stopping Corruption in City Hall. Please help Convict City Hall.

Thank you!

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS.
Moderator Magee,

You informed on this blog site many weeks ago that an article on pensions is coming soon. It seems like it has been 2 months. Did City Officials pressure Sun Officials not to run this artilce? Just asking. I know that City Officials pressured Sun Officials not to run Napergate V and Napergate VI and they were in fact never published but delivered hand to hand by the grass roots movement of the Napergate Man.

I believe the successful distribution of the boycotted ads including on the steps of City Hall until the Napergatians were thrown out by the NPD forced Sun Officials to reconsider their decision and continue publishing the Napergate Series of ads that reached XXXXIV.

I know you are a History Major, Moderatee Magee, but I bet I can still teach you some history about your own newspaper.

CIJ wrote:

I have proven you are a STALKER.

And:

Let us stop the personal attacks and investigate City Hall just like the Napergate Man did in the 90s.

First you attack me, then you call me a stalker when I respond, and then call on me to stop the attacks?? You are a never-ending source of amusement.


Some humor on the real estate bubble.

This one has been around, but still a good laugh.

Given the erosion of property values and the tax base, this thread seems as good as any.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM&NR=1

Moderator Magee,

The story behind Mr. Tim West is interesting to say the least.

At one point in the past he had such control of the newspaper that he successfully prevented the publication of 2 non-libelous paid Napergate Ads that were a needed source of income for the newspaper. He almost prevented 150 Napergate Ads from being published(many were published 3 or 4 times) at a cost of nearly 100k as his true goal was to smash the Napergate Series. He risked antagonizng the Napergate Man who was running another full page ad weekly for his liquor sales that had nothing to do with Napergate. Another huge potential source of revenue for a small newspaer.

The Napergate Man was by far the largest revenue producer for the Naperville Sun in the 80s and 90s. It appears he cut all relations with the Naperville Sun since he still owns liquor stores and never advertises in the Sun. Was there a final FALL-OUT between the Napergate Man and Sun Officials over City Officials? Something just seems very puzzling to me.

Most people would conclude that something unusual has taken place behind the scenes. Nothing adds up if you try to add things up. Nothing subtracts out if you try to subtract things out.


========================================================================================================================================

If Mr. West was not protecting City Officials and the Brestal Law Firm, where his wife is a long term partner, who was he protecting from the hard hitting investigative journalism of the Napergate Man?

========================================================================================================================================

I believe Mr. West prevented Napergate Ads from being published because there was a clear understanding between the Napergate Man's numerous attorneys and Coply's numerous attorneys in Californian that his ads would always be reviewed for libel before publication and all libel would be removed. This is information the NGM readily disclosed in his ads....and it appears the Napergate was clearly willing to remove libel and avoid possible litigation. Who would not in his right mind?

What has happened in recent years that has caused Mr. West to lose all his influence and power in the Naperville Sun? Did the last buyer, the Chicago Sun-Times, finally strip him of his power and authority?

Why did the Sun Times chose to lay energetic Jim Lynch off while retaining mellow Tim West?

Did he not at one time hold the positions of Editor and/or Publisher of the Naperville Sun? Did he not fully control the Naperville Sun when it was owned locally by Harold and Eva White?

I would appreciate more clarification on Mr. West in the event I am wrong about what I have learned over the years from numerous sources some of which may not have been 100% reliable.

Thank you!

CIJ

CIJ and everyone else:

At least we don't pay property taxes in Joliet. Nice city. Nice historic district. Good people. But from the Herald News...:

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/1860975,4_1_JO03_COUNCIL_S1-091103.article

-1

CIJ –

Yes, we’ve stopped responding to each other. Please also stop referring to me in any way. That was part of the deal.

While we’re at it, unless you’re claiming to be clairvoyant please stop assuming you know what I’ve “realized” or why I choose to respond to you or not. Whether I choose to respond to you is none of your business and you should stop assuming you know the reasons behind my actions.

**********

JQP –

You’re pissing into the wind, my friend.

T.B.

Lets debunk this post right now.....
"One has to do an investigation and see how many of our police officers and fire fighters are relatives, friends, in-laws or whatever to our City Officials and City Council Members."

If you would do some "investigating" you would know that this is not possible.

First, The City of Naperville Board of Fire and Police Commissioners hire an outside company, called Public Safety Recruitment (see web site at www.publicsafetyrecruitment.com ) to do all of the "eligible list of candidates." This outside company was hired to prevent people like you making statements like you made.

Second, during the test process there are NO names on the list. Each application is given a number and all testing is completed using only that number. A name is not put to that number until the end of testing and the list is given to the City of Naperville Board of Fire and Police Commissioners.

Third, the City of Naperville has an anti-nepotism policy that is enforced. You can get a copy of this policy from city hall.

To view the testing and hiring process page on the City of Naperville website, use this link. Also, follow all links attached to this site....
http://www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_content.aspx?id=400

I Have been reading some of the posts on the site concerning Firefighter Wages and Benefits. Instead of just taking some of these comments at face value, and do to recent events in my life, I decided to do some research......

From the City of Naperville website...."The Firefighter/Paramedic position is non-exempt, paid by an hourly wage negotiated between the City of Naperville and the International Association of Firefighters Local 4302. The hourly wage rate for the fiscal year '08-'09 is $22.1899/hr. Expressed on an annualized basis, this equates to $57,582.67."

Once again there have been a number of comments about the YEARLY pay rate of Firefighter/Paramedics with the City of Naperville. If one looks at the HOURLY rate, one can get a better view of the pay. A firefighter/paramedic earns $22.19 per hour (rounded)and they just work more hours than the average person. This hourly wage meets the average mean for this profession....
http://www.bls.gov/oes/2008/may/oes332011.htm

If you look at other professions that require a college degree and training, their median hourly is lower than the average....http://www.bls.gov/oes/2008/may/oes_il.htm

The fact that they earn more money per year is do to the number of hours worked per year. Oh yes, I can not forget that someone has stated that these city employees sleep all night..... WELL, about two weeks ago I had to visit Edward ER several times do to my child being sick and having trouble breathing. Once I had to use a City of Naperville ambulance do to the level of breathing problems. All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances. If they sleep all night in the firehouse as you stated, then why were there so many at the hospital???

The Nurse I spoke with at the hospital stated to me that nights are constant and busy. Most people go to the ER when they can not sleep and their illness is the most bothersome. She further stated that they receive ambulances all night long. While we waited in the ER, I also viewed several people coming in on that rolling bed (cot?) thing by the paramedics.

The Paramedics that helped us were very caring and very professional. I will fight for them every step of the way (after the way they treated us).

To the Moderator:

Chris, yesterday morning I left a comment asking you about the possibility of restricting the number of individual posts per day per blogger or putting a maximum character limit on individual posts. For some reason, this question was not posted or answered.
This is an honest inquiry as it seems this blog site is monopolized on a regular basis with lengthy diatribes and often, constant repeated posts regarding the same subjects, name-calling, and overall juvenile behavior. As I reader, I would like to hear opinions on some of the topics you post, however once I start reading them I see that they are heading down the same track and decide not to waste my time. I can pretty much guarantee I am NOT the only person who feels this way. Some of your readers have intelligent points of view, but their posts get lost in between all the arguing, name-calling, far-fetched and/or unsubstantiated accusations, font changes, capitalizations, italicizations, bolding and the like.

If the Sun wants to boost their number of online readers and written subscribers, wouldn't it be advantageous to keep an interesting, civil, and adult atmosphere rather than what appears to be a free-for-all? Plus, wouldn't it make your job easier if you didn't have to keep track of IPs, play referee, defend your coworkers, and regularly repeat the rules of the blogsite to regular posters?

T.B. wrote:

JQP –
You’re pissing into the wind, my friend

I know, I know. I just can't help myself sometimes, though, LOL. It's one of my personal weaknesses.

-JQP

By Anonymous on November 3, 2009 10:05 AM ,
All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances. If they sleep all night in the firehouse as you stated, then why were there so many at the hospital???


========================================================================================================================================

Sorry, that is an outright fabrication that you are posting.

I had to pick up a friend who works at the hospital between midnight and 130am almost 3 times a week for 2 months due to the loss of her car not too long ago. I picked her up next to the Emergency Exit as it was convenient for both.

On most days, I observed no ambulances. Thankfully! On some days I observed one ambulance.

You need a major catastrophe to have that many ambulances at Edwards's at one time. Ambulances will go to another hospital if they know there are 3-5 already at the hospital unloading seriously injured victims. Most Emergency Rooms can only handle so much at a time unless they have a RED ALERT and begin calling in doctors and nurses such as in a CATASTROPHE. I don't recall Edward's ever having to go to RED ALERT in nearly 40 years except during the massive Plainfield Tornado that killed 19 people.

I encourage anyone to visit the Emergency Area of Edward's Hospital any night. It is open to the general public. You will never see 7 ambulances every night there at one time. In 40 years of observing I have never seen more than 2 or 3 and only once or twice after major car accidents. (I did not go to Edward's during the massive Plainfield Tornado so I can not speak for that one day.)

I am not even sure if Naperville has 5 ambulances. One poster said they only have 4. I am sure at least 2 stations that I visited with my children over the years on school tours did not even have an ambulance. At most Naperville has 7 ambulances. It is pretty scary if all the ambulances are at Edwards at the same time. How is the FD going to respond to the next call if nearly all the ambulances are at Edward's unloading patients? Such hogwash!

My Lisle-Woodridge Fire Fighter acquaintence told me last night at the health club that they have a map of all the Naperville Fire Stations in his Fire House. He said they felt that the 10th station was not necessary and too close to another station. He was surprised they built it especially since Naperville has been experiencing deficits for a few years.

He also told me the worse part of the job is BOREDOM. They encounter BOREDOM over 80% of the time. They have so much time on their hands that they shop for groceries, cook their own gourment lunches and dinners, and wash their dishes when they are done. He also told me they have many week nights when they can sleep the night away without any interruptions. Sometimes even on weekend nights.

Believe me if they were so busy, they would eat FAST FOOD like the rest of us do for lunch and many times dinner. Who has time to cook gourmet meals these days....except very BORED FIRE FIGHTERS.

Anyone can spend a night outside of a Fire Station and there is a good chance he will see NO ACTIVITY....PERIOD. If he or she is lucky they may see one Engine and/or Ambulance exit during the night usually due to a false fire alarm misfunctioning.

Spreading lies on this blog site is not proper.

You are a night owl, Moderator Magee. Why don't you visit the Emergency Area of Edward's Hospital one night after midnight? At that point you will soon realize that many of the supporters of Fire Fighters are spreading lies on your BLOG SITE.

No wonder they are worried abut how many times I blog a day. They want to be able to spread MISTRUTHS without a REBUTTAL by someone who is not naive to believe what he reads.

They don't want a CITIZEN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER telling the sleepy folks in this town what happens at NIGHT based on EYEWITNESS DIRECT TESTIMONY.

I challenge anyone to sit outside of a Naperville Fire Station between midnight and 6am and see how many calls they get. I challenge anyone to sit outside Edward's Emergency Room to see if they can see those 7 Ambulances each night. What outrageus lies?

One day someone will sit outside of a FIREHOUSE at night and verify what I am saying. I once lived a block away from a FIRE STATION and very rarely saw any FIRE ENGINES or AMBULANCES leave between midnight and 6am, a time when I am calling for the closure of half the stations in an alternating way to save taxpayers money and help balance the budget.

If that report was true and we had ambulances flying into Edward's at that rate, there would be no one left alive or at least uninjured in this town to be transported to Edward's.

Please don't believe Fairy Tales written by Kindergarten Children. Go out there and see for yourselves my fellow mature bloggers. I have been OBSERVING in this town for nearly 40 years. I know what goes on here DAY, AFTERNOON, NIGHT and LATE NIGHT.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

Does it really surprise you that some of your bloggers want to quiet me down? Does it surprise you they don't want the truth to be told?

You seem like you are being an APOLOGIST for them. Please take off your kiddy Kindergarten Gloves and use the ruler once in a while. That is why they are so spoiled. You cater to them a bit much. Trust me, if you don't stand up to them they will ride you like a donkey...you need to see through them.


I just felt a breeze. Did anybody else feel that?

By Conscientious Observer on November 3, 2009 11:09 AM
To the Moderator:
This is an honest inquiry as it seems this blog site is monopolized on a regular basis with lengthy diatribes and often, constant repeated posts regarding the same subjects, name-calling, and overall juvenile behavior. As I reader, I would like to hear opinions on some of the topics you post, however once I start reading them I see that they are heading down the same track and decide not to waste my time. I can pretty much guarantee I am NOT the only person who feels this way. Some of your readers have intelligent points of view, but their posts get lost in between all the arguing, name-calling, far-fetched and/or unsubstantiated accusations, font changes, capitalizations, italicizations, bolding and the like.

========================================================================================================================================

1. First, no one is CURRENTLY dominating this Blog Site which has many threads including 10 on the Main Page and hundreds if not thousands in the archives that can be posted on.

2. It is true that I or another can dominate a thread.

3. Currently, "What If" is dominating the Political Thread in a much stronger fashion than I am dominating this thread. He may have a 3-1 ratio while I may only have a 10-1 ratio.

4. If the DOMINATION was the ISSUE and not the MESSAGE, you would have made your post on the POLITICAL THREAD which you blogged on as the case of DOMINATION is much more severe there.(JFTR, I could care less what is being said there....I stay away from the thread and nothing said bothers me because I actually don't read what is being written. Here, you all DON'T read what I say, but yet are EXTREMELY BOTHERED by what I say...very interesting phenomen....lol...) Think about that for a second, Moderator Magee!

5. ALL POINTS WEST, another Blog Site once owned by the Naperville Sun, had very similar topics as this Blog Site and also had a link from the front page of the Naperville Sun. If you are say disturbed by MY MESSAGES, why did you not go blog there from which I was totally banned. You may say Kudos to Tim West for banning ME, but his BLOG SITE failed....may I add miserably!

6. Moderator Magee provides 10 live threads on his MAIN PAGE. I make an effort to limit myself to 2 THREADS. Why are you not blogging on the other 8 threads where I do not blog?

7. Moderator Magee is aware that some people hate me and some people love me. He makes special accomodations.

8. He opened a special OPEN TOPIC THREAD for those who claim to hate me and can not stand me. For those who find my posts annonying, offensive, irritating and repetitious. For those who do not know how to scroll above them or below them to avoid reading them. For those who claim they can't stand reading them but read them due to ADDICTIONS or LACK OF WILL POWER....not sure as I am not a psychologist.

9. Low and behold, all those who complained about ME being on OPEN TOPIC I refused to go to OPEN TOPIC II where I have not made a single appearance and stated I will not make an appearance regardless of the topic chosen. Any topic can be discussed on either OPEN TOPIC. What more could Moderator Magee possibly do for you, Consientious Observer? You sound like a cry baby whining for his bottle. If I were the Moderator, I would have slapped your hands with a ruler. Sooner or later the Moderator will realize that spoiling you folks does not pay....it leads to wanting to be more spoiled. Moderator Magee is not here to give soothing MASSAGES!

10. While many complain about my EXISTENCE, at the expense of sounding conceited and arrogant, if it was NOT for ME this blog site would have followed ALL POINTS WEST to the GRAVEYARD and been buried next to it in the Naperville Cemetry.

11. When I first came to this blog site I observed for a few months without blogging. The blog site in its first few months looked like Mr. West's Blog Site. A dozen blogs a month and it was getting nowhere. There was little to no improvement.

12. I did make a deliberate effort to prevent this blog site from heading to a quick death by DOMINATING for quite some time. I tried to build the momentum anonymously using my own tactics. I succeeded and we now have a successful blog site. I no longer DOMINATE this blog site as it now has hundreds of REAL BLOGGERS who keep coming and joining the debate. As more and more people come on, the less I will dominate. The less this blog site will need me to take on the numerous City Officials who are defending their Big Fat Salaries, Benefits and Pensions while masquerading as civilian bloggers.


========================================================================================================================================

I am certain if I did not do what I had to do, and at ONE time truly dominate this blog site in an unimaginable way, this SUN BLOG SITE would not be here for you to enjoy.

Moderator Jim Lynch and Host Ted Slowik were stuck in the mud just like Mr. West. They were spinning their tires in place.They were failing just like Mr. West. Nothing was happening on this blog site. It was PITIFUL!

Mr. Lynch and Mr. Slowik looked the other way while I took over their Blog Site and in fact DOMINATED IT in every sense of the word just as you folks are alleging...but in the PAST! Mr. Tim West refused to allow me to blog. Not even about my cat, grandma and let alone the Napergate Man.

I do believe this Blog Site is by far the most successful in the Sun-Times Umbrella of Blog Sites. Possibly the most successful of any newspaper in Chicagoland.

I had never planned on taking credit for what I did to save this blog site from certain extinction and build it up, but Moderator Magee who is not as interested in ratings as much as Jim and Ted were, let the rabbit out of hat.

So stop the whining and enjoy this Great Blog Site.

Fight the MESSAGE instead of the MESSENGER.

It was important for ME to repeat MY MESSAGE about Big Fat Pensions until I woke enough people up in town. Now I get bloggers telling me they SUPPORT ME 100% and giving me STANDING OVATIONS. It appears to be bothering City Officials that now in Phase II of this blog site I am succeeding in waking the residents up.

Stay tuned for Phase III of my PLAN for CHANGE.

Thank you!

CIJ

I am not even sure if Naperville has 5 ambulances. One poster said they only have 4. I am sure at least 2 stations that I visited with my children over the years on school tours did not even have an ambulance.


http://www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_content.aspx?id=138

"Currently, the Department employs 200 full-time personnel. The Department is staffed 24 hours per day and operates seven front line engines, seven front line paramedic ambulances, three front line ladder trucks and one District Chief/Shift Commander."

Edward maintains its ranking as the tenth largest hospital in the Chicago area, according to Crain's.

Crain's Chicago Business ranks Edward as the tenth largest hospital in the Chicago area.

Edward completes 56,000 square foot expansion of emergency department (beyond its prior size). Allows for six percent annual growth in number of emergency visits and more private and efficient treatment and triage areas for patients.

Edward opens first pediatric emergency department in DuPage County.

Our ER is staffed 24/7 by board-certified emergency medicine doctors, and with more than 70,000 visits a year, our ER is equipped to handle all medical emergencies, injuries and illnesses.

Edward Hospital's Emergency Department rated among the top one percent of the busiest hospital ERs in the nation for patient satisfaction according to an independent Press Ganey survey.

http://www.edward.org/12940.cfm

With an Emergency Room getting a 56,000 square foot expansion (beyond its prior size) and they have a pediatric emergency room besides the adult emergency room and they are the 10th largest hospital in the Chicago area....

THEY CAN HANDLE 7 OR MORE AMBULANCES PER HOUR WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE. AND WHO DO YOU THINK BRINGS IN A LARGE NUMBER OF THESE PATIENT???

From CIJ: ...My Lisle-Woodridge Fire Fighter acquaintence told me last night at the health club that they have a map of all the Naperville Fire Stations in his Fire House. He said they felt that the 10th station was not necessary and too close to another station. He was surprised they built it especially since Naperville has been experiencing deficits for a few years...

The 10th fire station was built because it was taking the equipment from Station #6 to long to get across Rt 59 and service the far west side of Naperville.

Is there anyone else who finds the following statement as disturbing as I do???

Posted by Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 3, 2009 1:01 PM


"...I know what goes on here DAY, AFTERNOON, NIGHT and LATE NIGHT.

Thank you,

CIJ"


Chris, thankyou for attempting to say what many others have long said to CSI. The other moderators that CSI constantly refers to as her buddy, always let post bash away at her as she deserved it. You are finally understanding this I believe. Honestly, there are serious mental health issues that someone just doesn't comprehend what people are saying to her. I dont think its to far off of Scott Huber having a female friend sleeping on the sidewalk with him (NOT FOR LONG THOUGH) We dont need repeat and repeat, it has completely ruined this blog and its a shame. Let others post, stop repeating and perhaps seek some help???

THANK YOU Moderator Chris! That is exactly the way I feel about all of this, and I expect there will be dozens more expressing the same.

CIJ,
I am not even sure if Naperville has 5 ambulances. One poster said they only have 4. I am sure at least 2 stations that I visited with my children over the years on school tours did not even have an ambulance. At most Naperville has 7 ambulances.

========================================================================================================================================

By Anonymous on November 3, 2009 2:55 PM
I am not even sure if Naperville has 5 ambulances. One poster said they only have 4. I am sure at least 2 stations that I visited with my children over the years on school tours did not even have an ambulance.

========================================================================================================================================

Anonymous,
Why leave out the last part of my comment which turned out to be the exact number of ambulances in Naperville. Obviously, I was tellig the truth and in fact 2 stations do not have ambulances as I witnessed with my own eyes. I was obviously telling the truth not having inside information to the FD. I was revealing PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS.

****************************************************************************************************************************************

I re-affirm that despite picking up a friend who did not have a car, about 27 times the last 2 months, I never saw 7 Ambulances at any time between the hours of midnight and 1:30am at Edward's Hospital. Anyone can take a visit if they would like and maybe OJ will, as he is more the EYEWITNESS type who gets away from his keyboard.

Tens of thousands of people are driven to Edward's Hospital annually for small cuts, minor injuries, colds, headaches, booboos and whatever else. This is a big part of the 70,000 trips to Edward's and it and other hospitals have complained about people using their emergency rooms as a doctor's office.

I know a 40 year old lady who went there with a tiny paper cut in broad daylight with doctors offices still open everywhere. They put some medicine on it for her and sent her home with a $1450 bill. NOT ONE STITCH was required.

Two of my kids had cuts requiring stitches while playing sports and in both instances they were driven there. No ambulance was needed. I know this is very typical as many of us do not feel a need to disturb fire fighters over minor stuff we can handle like an injury requiring a few stitches.

70,000 ambulances going to Edwards annually would mean every family in Naperville had to call an ambulance 1.4 times. How many families even call an ambulance once every 5 or 10 years? We have lived here nearly 40 years and never had to call an ambulance or fire engine. I am sure my house is not the only house that did not burn down in Naperville or did not have a serious injury.

I stand by the comment of my Lisle-Woodrige Fire Fighter acquaintence who told me, the worst part of his job is BOREDOM from lack of calls. He does not mind the calls when they come and is always ready for action when needed.

While Edward's Emergency Room is undoubtedly capable of handling a major emergency, it is not staffed to hire a major emergency at every moment in the day. That would be a waste of hospital money and resources. That would result in extreme BOREDOM!

My Lisle-Woodridge acquaintence told me they take serious heart patients to Edward's and serious trauma patients to Good Samaritan depending on the case. He told me that they are instructed if they have many many injuries, to not send all their injured to the same hospital. They rarely ever have too many injuries from one incident. When was the last time a bus, train or air plane crashed in Lisle....or for that matter in Naperville. Did we ever have a major high rise fire in a buidling along the Tollway in Naperville or Lisle??? Unless, I missed it, and I am a news junkie, my answer is NO!

While Edwards can certainly call in doctors and nurses at any hour of the night, it would take longer to call these doctors and nurses in than to spread the injured amongst more than one hopsital.

In the Plainfield Tornado that killed 19 according to news channels, victims were sent to Joliet, Aurora, Downers Grove and Naperville hospitals.

Since writing the original post, I spoke to a nurse who works at Edward's Hospital. She told me the receiving area to the best of her knowledge has bays for either 2 or 3 ambulances at one time. She told me they certainly get 7 ambulances thoughout the night and sometimes many more.

She told me in her 20 years of working at Edward's and exiting from the Emergency Area, she has never seen 7 ambulances there at one time as a Blogger stated. She emphasized never! So why the exaggerations which follow with attacks on me for telling the TRUTH.

I don't doubt Edward's can handle 7 ambulances at one time if necessary. They could easily pull doctors and nurses from floors to help until the specialized emergency staff arrivied. They don't have to use the specialized bays as nearby double doors can provide ingress and egress.

Most ambulance paramedics are fully aware what is going on. They will spread the injured around and not pressure one hospital.

And once again, I have never seen 5 Naperville Ambulances at Edwards at one time each and every night as a blogger suggested. If there was a need for 5 Ambulances at one time in Naperville and they all brought injured to the hospital, we would certainly hear about it from our newspaper, the Naperville Sun the next day or at least 2 days later. Or wouldn't we, Moderator Magee

Thank you,

========================================================================================================================================


PS. And why would it take too long to cross RT. 59 for a fire engine or ambulance. Don't the specialized lights allow them to cross immediately? Don't civilians stop for them and give them the right of way as I do and everyone should do? Some of the arguments made on this blog site are nonsensical. If the people making these arguments are City Officials as I suspect, it should surprise no one that we have a $14.1 million operating budget deficit, a $126.2 million Accrued Actuarial Pension Liability Deficit and $20.5 million in stock market losses this years.n This speaks volumes regarding THEIR INTELLIGENCE.

If we let City Officials have it their way, they would have 30 Fire Stations at a cost of $2100 per household or $105 million to the City annually. Their argument is we may save a child one day in the next 100 years and a child is worth more than $105 million dollars times 100 which is equal to $10,500,000,000. I agree a child is priceless. Let us build the stations. What the heck? We all have tax money dripping from our pockets.........and new tax money growing on our trees to replace the tax money dripping from our pockets!

Thank you Chris !!!!!

I don't blog here like I used to. I'm not sure why I come back, it isn't for the info I get from reading, but kind of a macabre "can't look away from the train wreck" kind of thing. Unfortunately even this kind of attention keeps CIJ going.

I suppose I need a 12 step program, I certainly don't respect or read CIJ, and as this is his blog, I don't know why I'm here. Perhaps it's to see who is speaking against him at any given point. Perhaps it's to see when he will finally go away.

No, I am not a pension hungry city worker.

By Stormynights on November 3, 2009 5:03 PM
Is there anyone else who finds the following statement as disturbing as I do???

Posted by Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 3, 2009 1:01 PM


"...I know what goes on here DAY, AFTERNOON, NIGHT and LATE NIGHT.

Thank you,

CIJ"

That statement is way over the top !!! CIJ needs to get a reality check. The only one in this town that knows everything is GOD and the 911 call center.

Moderator Magee,

This post is FOR PUBLICATION.

1. Those who complain are full of hot air. Keep in mind my posts are not REQUIRED READING and can be skipped over rather easily using the SCROLL METHOD.

2. I voluntarily limit myself to 2 threads at one time and it seems like that is where the action is...where the activity is....where the blog site is usually the busiest with very rare exceptions.

3. I stopped blogging on the Library Thread on OCT 26, and that thread died THAT EXACT DAY. If I am the cause of disturbances and and a nuisance why are they not BLOGGING ON THAT THREAD after I removed myself from the debate in order not to be on 3 THREADS and have accusations of hijacking rendered against me. Why don't you try to take a stab at answering this question, Moderator Magee, instead of always siding with those who are against ME?

4.Why should I take responsibility for the Edward's Hospital Thread being dead or the Swine Flu Thread being near dead? I never blogged on either of those 2 threads.

5. I blogged on Open Topic Thread I and it was MORE than 7 times as busy as Open Topic II, which I never even visited to read let alone blog on. You created it for the whiners so I could be out of their hair but they seem to want me in their hair. Very odd behavior if you ask me, Moderator Magee!!! Please address some of my valid points instead of always circling around them to appease my OPPONENTS from City Hall and their supporters..

6. My italics, bolding and color should not bother anyone. I just learned a few days ago how to bold individual words or sentences and I am decreasing my bolding as I get the hang of it. The New York Times went from regular print after a century to color as it felt people want color and flavor. Your newspaper uses color. I am only doing that to make my posts easier to read and your blog site prettier and more exciting. Not to anatagonize you or anyone. There is a lot of effort that goes into producing colorful posts....it slows me down considerably and for those who want less words from me they should be happy....not upset that I am being slowed down...lol...

7. I did not know how to B, I, C, and U(nderline) until a month ago and the same complaints existed about me before then. So this latest complaint is NONSENSE.

8. My posts are long because they contain information I research and observe. My long posts are the source of debate that makes your blog site busier...not slower. If everyone threw in a one liner, a thread will stall as you can see on the threads I do not visit.

9. You have "WHAT IF" completely DOMINATING A THREAD and not one complaint about him. Apparently his MESSAGE does not bother anyone one. I have no clue what it is since I do not read that thread anymore.

10.In conclusion, Moderator Magge, it is MY MESSAGE that is disturbing. Not my italiacs, bold, color, domination, hijacking and all this silly stuff brough up by City Officials disguised as WHINERS who I am EXPOSING daily.

========================================================================================================================================


And many bloggers support me. One said he is 100% behind me. One gave me a STANDING OVATION. One told me I am not doing enough! One told me I am a little late with my ALLEGATIONS as the city already has self destructed. Napervillian agreed with me on the Pension and Benefit Fiascos. The positive comments are all there and on this thread. It is too bad you allow all the WHINING POSTS to bury all the COMPLEMENTS I am receiving for my hard work on your blog site. Speaking of hard work, another blogger mentioned he appreciates all my hard work on this blog site and asked me to continue on. My supporters blog once in my support. The whiners continue to blog daily and really repeat themselves with the same old meaningless and deafening false allegations....undoubtedly orchestrated. While I do repeat my facts, I also always bring new information to your site that keeps your BLOG ENGINE well oiled.

Please, Moderator Magee, there are 2 sides to this story. I think you are being biased and taking the side of my opponents. I would like you to reconsider your remarks.

Why don't you consider just once expressing support for my viewpoint, just once as a possible legitimate viewpoint regarding this blog site's activity. I suspect all my opponents would quiet down quickly if you could explain my VIEWPOINT and express it in your own kind and gentle words.

Thank you,

CIJ

FOR PUBLICATION

Moderator Magee,

1. You have to take responsibility for not stopping the insults which you are capable of stopping. I always point out in my first post on a new thread that I am not attacking anyone or even mentioning anyone. Your bloggers lay in ambush for me and you refuse to stop it which has led to your dreading this blog site. I am truly sorry about that.

2. I will take your word that people all e-mail you that I am evil and not one good e-mail comes about my strong educational efforts on your blog site. I suspect your e-mails are from City Officials who stand to lose average 100k in pension benefits when you factor in their 3% annual increases.

3. But please also take my word that people in the streets and health clubs are impressed with what CIJ is doing on your blog site as they read it daily. No one knows who I am except for my spouse. No one has a clue after 3.5 years and I have sworn my spouse to secrecy. I am not doing this for PERSONAL RECOGNITION. I did not even have a UNIQUE HANDLE until I was forced into one as an effort to stop the relentless whining and crying by your bloggers many of whom may be City Officials.

4. If people are really sick and tired of ME, Moderator Magee and want to blog about different ideas and subjects, did you not give them that opportunity on OPEN TOPIC II? Who is stopping them? I promised I would never go there. I kept my promise. I will continue to keep my promise. Feel free to enforce it if I break it. Why did you not address this OPEN TOPIC THREAD II with your complainers? Why don't they simply go there? The reason Mr. Magee is they want to destroy MY MESSAGE which is endangering their high salaries, high beneftis and high pensions. Ever so obvious to me!

5. If people maybe don't want to discuss pensions, the police, and whatever else, why don't they visit the threads on other subjects you provide for them. You know I have no interest in these other subjects and don't visit the respective threads.

6. "Many people tell me that as soon as they see you comment on a topic, they stop going to that topic."

Moderator Magee, people are not being truthful with you. Review your own Blog Site. When people see me not comment on a thread, they immediately leave that thread. When people see me comment on a thread they immediately join that thread.

Perfect example is the Library Thread that I deserted Oct. 26. Low and behold everyone followed me. Common Mr. Magee, I know you are a very busy person but how could you not make these simple observations.

I am not blogging on either OPEN TOPIC today. No one is blogging on either last time I checked.

Moderator Magee, let us face it. Don't kid yourself. These complainers are disturbed by MY MESSAGE. You are giving them fuel to make your own life more stressful and dreadful. Why are you doing that to YOURSELF?

Stop giving them fuel. Tell them to begin attacking MY MESSAGE and prove it wrong. They CAN'T!

Don't allow them to start the attacks. You got my promise I will never start an attack on a FELLOW BLOGGER!

Thank you,

CIJ

Mr. Magee,

I am happy to take it up with Mr. Higgins once he finishes his payroll report and analysis of the latest school scores ;>)

I response to CIJ:

    1. Those who complain are full of hot air. Keep in mind my posts are not REQUIRED READING and can be skipped over rather easily using the SCROLL METHOD.

Better yet, Ctrl-F gets you the find function. Type in capital B lowercase y and a space -- "By " without the quotation marks. You can then choose to be case sensitive. This will allow you to skip from post to post, with an occasional stop within a post due to someone writing that word-space combination. Works in Firefox and IE.

If you had a FAQ here, that would be a great entry.

fwiw, CIJs posts are almost too comical to get upset about. There may be some good points (repeated over and over), but the chest pounding anger, grandiose self-importance and occasional paranoia are quite amusing. Kind of reminds me of Plankton from SpongeBob.

-1

To Just the Facts: I think you have the facts wrong. Please refer to one of my earlier posts. I currently do not receive free leaf pick up. The City currently does not plow my street (let alone salt it). I know there are plenty of mosquitos in my neighborhood. I have never seen a City truck replace a lightbulb in my subdivision, but maybe they come by when I am at work - nor have I ever seen a street light out. Yes, I do believe there should be 911 operators and the required fire and police response.

As for requiring leaves to be bagged and stickers purchased. Sounds like a good idea to me. Those that have lots of trees/leaves should pay for their disposal. City stickers - not a bad idea. Naperville formerly had city stickers. In 1990 when I returned here from living in San Diego, I inquired about stickers. City official told me it cost more to enforce than the $$ that was made. Maybe this should be revisited

To Mayor Pradel (I knew him as Officer Friendly and went to high school with his son Georgie) and Council, I would be happy - as I am sure other posters would - to offer my recommendations. Just ask.

To Diane G,

Is it possible that you live in one of those pockets of unincorporated land within the borders of Naperville proper? That might explain why you don't get leaf pickup or snow plowing. If you know for certain that you are in Naperville, then I'd call the city to complain about these services if I were you.

-JQP

CIJ,

I am asking you as a person who agrees with you on the facts of your points to stop with the long ranting posts. I tend to agree with what Moderator Chris says…less is more! I have read many of your posts and they do include insulting people that don’t agree with you (even before they attack you), please drop the insults from your posts and stick to the facts...you make great points when do you do that. We need to watch what we are spending, we need to make city staff cuts where appropriate and we need to focus on cost effective government. There are better ways to run this city that won't cost the taxpayers an arm and a leg and that will continue our high level of service that we are used too, we just need to find them. However, the way to find those solutions are by working together, not by insulting each other. You have very valid points that need to be addressed...but your delivery is where I have a problem. Your message sometimes gets lost in the delivery. You are as guilty as the people you complain about...however I believe they are just doing it to get under your skin and it is working. In the past, I have debated with a lot of the same people you are currently debating with and they have never personally attacked me...because I never personally attacked them. Now is the time to focus more on talking about the solutions to the problems that we are facing in this city and less about each other. Enough is a enough!

Thanks,

Kevin

I am all for getting back to facts.

I did make a special visit to Edward's Hospital Emergeny Area after visiting Mr. Huber and giving him a helping hand since he was on fumes again after my work-out tonight.

I stayed in the Emergency Area between 1130pm to midnight.

Not one Emergency Vehicle came from Naperville, Lisle-Woodridge or any fire department or private amublance service.

There was one Superior Ambulance parked in one of the 4 Ambulance spots on the West Side of the Emergency Compound. It was unattended and was there when I arrived and when I left. I believe Superior handles many of the trips from the nursing facilities in Naperville in order not to overburden the NFD or wake them up at night. People in this town are not mean and do not want to disturb the NFD unless it is absolutely essential. My family and I have never disturbed them in nearly 40 years and we hope never to disturb them even though we contribute $700 dollars per year to them on our real estate tax bill just in case we may one day need them. I think we treat them fairly.

I noticed the enclosed area at Edward's for ambulances only had one door. As I passed by, the big garage door opened up possibly because something in my vehicle caused it to open such as my garage door opener or phone or it could have been a malfuntion or more likely I drove a little too close to it...not sure! I saw one entrance. In the enclosed area a few ambulance could park if necessary but would have to use one bay(Again there was not a single ambulance in this Main Emergency Receiving Area....take a drive and check it out if you don't believe me.)

Another door was labeled Emergency under an OVERHANG west of the enclosed Emergency Area. It had revolving doors and side doors. I suppose the side doors could fit a patient on a stretcher though tightly.( No ambulances were at this entrance either...not one.)

But for someone on this Sun Blog Site to say that he sees 5 Naperville Ambulances every time he goes there is really an outrageous fabrication to make it look like the fire fighters work harder than they really do. And maybe to attack the credibility of my L-W Fire Fighter Aquaintence who I have known for many many years to be honest and credible. A real nice man who tells it as it is. It is not like he was excited to tell me about the BOREDOM he experiences every time he works. Yes, 80% of the time in a FIRE STATION there is nothing to do but cook, wash dishes, watch TV, play basketball, chat with your kids on the phone or whatever. It is not a stressful job if you are well trained and our fire fighters are well trained. It is a BORING job. And in my opinion Fire Fighters while good people and providing a necessary function are OVERPAID and UNDERWORKED due to their extremely high numbers....200 plus in Naperville.

There is absolutely no need for them to retire at age 52 making the pension system simply impossible to keep funded. Delaying retirement age to 60 as AIRPLANE PILOTS would do wonders for their Pension System. With 200 plus Fire Fighters in Naperville, the older fire fighters don't have to be on the front lines. There are many back line jobs in Fire Fighting when we have a serious fire once a month or less sometimes.

Anyway, it is very irritating for me to see BLATANT LIES published here.

I encourage everyone to stop by Edward's and see how many ambulances you see outside the Emergency Room especially at night. Again, I don't think it is CRIMINAL to call for the closing of half the FIRE STATIONS between 12am and 6am on weekdays to help balance the budget. It is better than laying off Fire Fighters and throwing them on the street...they deserve better.

And really who is going to argue that the streets are rather deserted in the wee hours of the night, allowing our fire fighters to arrive at better speeds and in less time than in the day time or early evening hours.

Thank you,

CIJ

I'm with Chris 100%

Somehow for the good of the blog, this needs to stop. Like someone else said, this is like watching a trainwreck.

I don't believe what CIJ writes, they go on forever about the same things, the arguments he gets into with everyone are childish, and the self-righteous tone is nauseating.

Kevin,

I respect you very much and I will do my utmost to focus on the facts and try to ignore counter-attacking any blogger but not his/her message if it is untruthful as was the case in my earlier post.

Please watch and see who attacks first though.

That is all I am asking.

And if you notice attacks, please jump in as the Moderator is stressed out and maybe your words of wisdom can prevent escalations from either side. I don't want this blog site to be DREADFUL to the Moderator who I believe is a genuinely nice person facing immense pressure that is related to my MESSAGE and MASQUERADED in my STYLE.

And the facts that the Moderator is receiving an unimaginable number of e-mails complaining about me is also a sign that this blog site is well read by Napervillians. Otherwise, he would not be receiving so many e-mails about one person if NO one read this blog site as my antagonists want you to believe.

Imagine how concerned numerous e-mailers are about a MESSAGE being broadcast on this BLOG SITE that no one reads!!! What are they so worried about if no one reads what I write. Such hypocrisy!

This is a great site and more than anyone else I want it to be successful. More than anyone else I have worked to make it successful. While I don't start personal attacks, I have to agree that my counter-attacks are not helpful. Again, I am for the Moderator not publishing personal attacks from bloggers against fellow bloggers. I would love to see it stopped. The Moderator does have the power to stop it and I am hoping he will STOP IT!

I am sure he realizes he has to exercise his powers as the bloggers refuse to focus on my MESSAGE and constantly focus on attacking ME the MESSENGER, sometimes for things that happened a year ago and he kindly asked them to drop....to move forward. They unfortunately refuse!

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================


PS. Just to PLEASE, I have drastically cut down on my bold, color and italics which I only had the best of intentions when doing. It was a work-out, I really don't need if no one appreciates it and people find it offensive. I am bending over backwards, Kevin...and Moderator Magee, to PLEASE.

I think you nice gentlemen also need to ask the other side to bend over backwards. And their constant use of the handle Anonymous to attack me could mean there is only one or two of them making a lot of commotion and stressing the Moderator out.

Lets start by closing the fire station near your house and see what all your neighbors think. After all, you all talk and they always agree with everything you say so there should not be a problem. If one person's life was lost from your great idea, YOU will be responsible...

To Diane and JQP

Diane, you should be fortunate to live outside of the City boundaries, but hopefully in Lisle Towhship. Lisle Township does a much better job of picking up leaves and plowing streets than Naperville does. I am not familiar with Naperville Township.

And one other benefit--no Naperville taxes. No property taxes for library, city and park district. Also, no hidden taxes such as the 5% utility taxes on water, electric, gas, and phone--at least another $1,000 per house.

Sounds like you are on one of those streets public works skips until they are reported. Call city hall.

Back to the issue at hand- taxes..

For those of you who live in IPSD 204 boundaries- please take another look at your tax bill. I ask you , what makes up the majority of yor tax bill ? Yep - good old school district. People are up in arms over the city tax increase and given the state of the economy, I understand completely. But the increase will be a gnat compared to what the good old boys on the 204 SB and the admin has done to you. Where was this outrage when they decided to build a 3rd HS for $124M based on estimated HS population of 10,400 students - ramped up with fabrications of split shifts for our children and other nonsense helped spread thru use of a consulting form that specializes ingetting referendums passed- not based on need. That $124 M HS now has cost us upwards of $145M and likely over $150M when the facts all come out. We have financed and refinanced ourselves into debt for 20 more years for a high school they knew before they started they did not need. The SB's own popualtion growth figures cap out at 8800+ ( now) and drop from there. K thru 3 grade are progressively lower each grade -- yet they proceeded on because they claim they had the will of the people inhand- but the will was garnered will facts later shown to be false, after a failed 2005 referendum vote. The freshman center solution we paid for was build to handle 9200 btw )- and that was pre 600 seats at Frontier Campus). Also the people stood up and told them they wanted geographic solutions ( so we placed the school in the furthest corner of the district the farthest away from the population center, in some cases making it the 7th or 8th closest high school to some attendees homes ) - and also add on solutions to current high schools if possible.Now in 2014 some of the heaviest increases will hit your tax bills - increases could range from 20% - 40%.

Truly it will become unaffordable to live here and return on investment low enough to hurt the embattled real estate market even more.

the 500 pound gorilla in the tax room is IPSD 204 - yet all the outrage is on the city tax bill.

It isn't criminal to close 50% of the fire stations - it's just plain stupid

Chris Magee, moderator on November 3, 2009 8:49 PM
Chris Magee, moderator on November 3, 2009 10:14 PM
______________________________________
Thank You Chris - well put.

The topics presented on Potluck are far ranging and offer a variety of discussions. The topics about politics, local government and government workers are the "hottest" one's and should be open to anyone and everyone. CIJ claims to only post on certain topics and says the others such as "open topic 2" are for use by others. Just because CIJ posts on topics that many others have interest in does not mean we post there because of them (CIJ), but because these are usually the one's that interest people the most. The library thread interests me, but not as much as the politicians thread so I spent time debating with What The ? among others. It was a good debate, and civil for the most part.

Chris is correct, CIJ draws the ire of many when they post things like, "It is a BORING job. And in my opinion Fire Fighters while good people and providing a necessary function are OVERPAID and UNDERWORKED due to their extremely high numbers....200 plus in Naperville." Most people (and I) respond to you, CIJ, in the same tone you use to us. There is no way anyone could read the line you wrote about "overpaid and underworked firefighters" and come away with anything other than this being an attack by you against our firefighters. And your "proof" of events typically consists of you observation. Your observations are extremely "convenient" and not verifiable. For example you observed there were no tax receipt collectors at Ribfest, you observed 17 police officers at Chicago and Washington, and now you state you observed Edward hospital not being busy. In each case you claim to just happen to be at these locations doing your investigative work or some good deed. If true, it makes you omnipresent, but it is just too many convenient observations to be believable.

How about wording it this way? "The firefighters certainly have a job that at times seems monotonous, but thank god they are available when we need them". "That being said, is there any thought or possibility of reducing this outstanding work force, or somehow limiting their hours or the number of stations?"

This would invite discussion and debate. I posted on this topic and asked if anyone could tell me if there is a government regulation that required a certain number of firefighters and stations based on a towns population and geography. Anonymous posted information from the NFPA indicating that there are in fact standards that must be met. CIJ chose not to comment on my question or Anons information. Is Naperville overstaffed based on the NFPA guidelines? No one commented - it seems that this would be the basis for a discussion?

My next question was this: "If we reduce the number of firefighters, and close a station or two what is the effect on the Cities ability to get Federal funds?" Are there federal funds tied to the staffing of our fire department? Secondly I asked what the cities insurance providers would say to a reduction of available fire fighters? Would this raise the premium of the cities insurance, would it result in the insurance provider dropping the city? Would this potential dropping of the insurance provider lower the cities bond ratings, and increase the rates at which naperville borrows funds? And finally, would a reduction in fire fighters actually raise my homeowners insurance? Insurance rates for homeowners are based on ratings and fire protection certainly contributes to this rating.

So while the short term reduction in firefighters "may" reduce the current financial crunch, will it result in higher premiums for all that most likely will eat up the savings? Notice how I didn't even mention the safety factor, or union contracts, but let's just stick with the financial impact for now.

CIJ,

I don't think spending 30 minutes on one night at the ER and not seeing any ambulances is a very good study as to the frequency of ambulance arrival there.

My understanding of the police and fire departments is that some days or parts of days are busy and other days are not. Just as you saw no ambulances it is realistic to assume that the other poster saw some. I have seen Naperville, Lisle, Warrenville, Wheaton, Aurora, Downers Grove, Plainfield, Romeoville, and Lockport ambulances at the ER (not at the same time).

I personally have driven by there and seen no ambulances and at other times I have seen it so busy that the paramedics are unloading patients in the ER driveway.

Granted the number of calls at night is probably much lower than during the daytime because of lower traffic volumes, less businesses open, and people less active.

However, since no one can determine when an illness, accident, or catastrophe will occur the police and fire departments keep themselves staffed at the same levels day and night.

I know your philosophy that insurance will rebuild your house if it burns down and minutes to respond don't really matter that much. Unfortunately for you, the rest of the homeowners in Naperville don't agree.

I believe most Naperville citizens believe their taxes are reasonable and they get good service for their money.

If you have the time to post over and over on this blog I would suggest you show up at a city council meeting and voice your opinion, show up at city hall and gain access to information via the Freedom of Information Act, sit down with manager Kreiger and ask him where else the city can make cuts. I have always found the people at city hall to be helpful and respectful.

Report back to us when you have more than 30 minutes invested in a project.

For those interested here are the 2008 Naperville Fire Dept. call stats from Naperville City web site.

Activity Breakdown - 2008

Total Emergency Responses 9,559
Total Fire Responses 3,116
Total Ambulance Responses 6,443
Structure Fires 102
Fire Loss $3,096,205
Fire Related Deaths 0
Patients Treated 7,448
Patients Transported 5,330

Naperguy wrote:

However, since no one can determine when an illness, accident, or catastrophe will occur the police and fire departments keep themselves staffed at the same levels day and night.

It's also worth noting that most of us are home at night, and we spend the majority of that time sleeping. If the firefighters can get to my house even faster during those hours due to reduced traffic volume, I'm all for it.

-JQP

CIJ:

Things look much more readable now. Keep the comments brief and to the point. As the others wrote, do not let side issues and distracting presentation get in the way of your message*.

-1

* I am not saying I endorse all or even any of your ideas. I am just chiming in with positive feedback on the appearance and tone of the past few posts. Looks like a good change.

Once again our local politicians have lost all sense of reality. Raising property taxes and the possible hike in sales tax during these hard economic times is just the height of arrogance we have come to expect from even local politicians.

I moved to Naperville sixteen years ago with the intention of spending the rest of my days in our home. Now I'm thankful that my youngest son is a senior at Naperville North and my graduation present will be to get the heck out of Naperville and our every increasing taxes. As far as I'm concerned the five who voted for the tax increase just signed their political death sentence. The only solution that would get me to stay is a return to fiscal responsibility (you know, the stuff your parent's taught you ), and an end to this spend, spend, and spend some more attitude.

It seems that Naperville has their priorities all messed up. When I read that they are laying off employees, but can find millions of dollars to re-do a park, I really question their sanity.

Do we really want to take a chance of someone dying or their house burning down to save some money???

The first time that happens, what do you think everyone will be saying??????

CIJ thank you, I mean it from the bottom of my soul. You have managed to change my opinion of Naperville. Good job. I applaud the work you have done.

27 years ago I moved here and over a short time I fell in love with this city. However, as time passed I grew cynical and frustrated with how I saw the city run. I thought that I would should run for city council on the platform of change. I didn't, but I did vote. I attended public hearings and I even started reading online community forums and it made me think about this town. Specifically, it made me think I would rather have an over abundance of fire stations then not have enough when it counts. I like knowing that the police are able to keep most of the crime out of the city. If the hospital in town is quiet at 11:30 at night that should be a good sign. As such I really do not mind paying more taxes to helping to fund the pensions for police or fire services.

I say this to everyone, if you don't like Naperville then get the hell out. CIJ, to you I thank the work that you have done, I never would have seen the errors of my ways and how much I like this city if it weren't for your. On the funny side, I just finished the book War and Peace and noticed, if you were to put all your postings for the last 2 years together, War and Peace looks like a short story.

Sorry everyone that just popped into my head.

I just sent the follow e-mail to Chris and his e-mail address....

Chris,
Please review. I can not post photos on the blog, but I can send you the photos and ask that you verify that I sent you the proof..... I will continue to take photos when I am in the area of Edward to further prove my statement....

In a recent post on your potluck blog site CIJ said....
By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 3, 2009 1:01 PM

Please don't believe Fairy Tales written by Kindergarten Children.

"But for someone on this Sun Blog Site to say that he sees 5 Naperville Ambulances every time he goes there is really an outrageous fabrication to make it look like the fire fighters work harder than they really do. And maybe to attack the credibility of my L-W Fire Fighter Aquaintence who I have known for many many years to be honest and credible."

"Sorry, that is an outright fabrication that you are posting."

"On most days, I observed no ambulances. Thankfully! On some days I observed one ambulance."

"How is the FD going to respond to the next call if nearly all the ambulances are at Edward's unloading patients? Such hogwash! "

Attached are photos that I just took today at Edward Hospital. The ambulance garage at Edward holds 6 ambulances, 3 deep and 2 wide. In my photos you will note that the ambulance garage is FULL and there is 0ne ambulance waiting to get in, another just leaving, and one more parked outside. THAT MAKES A TOTAL OF 9 AMBULANCES AT EDWARD, IN AND AROUND THE EMERGENCY ROOM GARAGE AT ONE TIME.

I do not make things up. When I state something, I can and will back it up with proof.

Chris has received proof in the form of photos than at Edward Hospital. CIJ, you said than Edward NEVER has more than one ambulance there at a time and could not handle 7 ambulances. Well, all I had to do was drive past Edward and take a couple of photos to prove you wrong.

Anonymous ONE,

There is nothing wrong with expressing an OPINION that FFs are overpaid and underworked. If you feel my opinion is wrong, rather than attacking ME prove my opinion is wrong. Describe the life of a fire fighter at a FIRE STATION.

I asked my L-W FF acquaintence to describe a day at his Fire Station and he concluded with the word BOREDOM. This is the word of a FF and not mine describing the situation in the L-W FD.

Advances in fire resistant building materials, state of the art sprinkler systems, smoke detectors and alarm detectors have cut back on fires immensely. But no proportional cuts have been made in Fire Dept. Personal. The word POSSIBILITY is used as JUSTIFICATION to keep an overabundence of FFs on duty even at night when almost nothing happens. I am not a fan of firing anyone, let alone FFs. But there is no reason not to decrease personal by not replacing those who retire. Roughly 7 FFs retire each year. If we had not been replacing FFs we would have a lot less....in my opinion we need a few less.

I have suggested closing half the FSs between the hours of midnight and 6am. In an alternating fashion so that NO neighborhood including mine takes the brunt of the closings in the very rare event of a fire to a home. If speed is a criteria than speed will be met at night since the roads are empty and Fire Engines and Ambulances are allowed to drive in excess of posted speed limits as long as the sirens are blaring and emergency lights are on.

When an apparent friend of FFs started rambling falsehoods about 5 NFD ambulances at Edward's Hospital EACH NIGHT plus 2 from L-W FD at the same time, I knew he was blatantly lying. And sadly on one on this blog site including the Moderator wants to hold him accoutable for spewing falsehoods to further his agenda.

Edward's Hospital has a Health Club on campus that I have been a member of since 1988. I pass by the Emergency Room almost daily usually between 930pm and 11pm on the way to and from my work-outs. Moderator Magee is fully aware I am missing from this Sun Blog Site at those times almost every weekday. Weekend hours are different as the Health Club closes earlier. And besides that I did pick up a part time nurse the last 2 months between 12:00am and 1:30am who had her car repossesed due to buying a rather expensive one she could not afford, when banks gave you any amount you wanted whether you qualified or not which has led to this deep recession.

So, yes the Anonymous Blogger who said 5 NFD ambulances can be found there each night was BLATANTLY LYING. And when people blatantly lie about how hard FFs work, they hurt the FFs they are trying to help. They hurt the taxpayers who have to spend all this money believing FFs are on the run non-stop throughout the night. This MISINFORMATION is counter-productive to arriving to solutions on this Blog Site that the 4.5 Council Members who are on this blog site can consider. (Does anyone know if CM Doug Krause was told about how he was caught breaking his promise not to raise taxes on this blog site and told then him to review it so we can start using 5 instead of 4.5..lol)

Many nights FFs get to sleep with no interruptions. There are 9 soon to be 10 FSs in Naperville and not all are called every time there is an incident. One or two are called. Many nursing homes in Naperville apparetnly call Superior Ambulance to take their patients to Edward's for sudden non-life threatening illnesses. I have no clue why they don't call the NFD if they are paying taxes in Naperville. Maybe they feel guilty disturbing their sleep and call ambulance operators who work 8 hour shifts and are awake anyway. Maybe since insurance will pay for these ambulance calls, they want to help the NFD stay fresh in case that BIG FIRE one day comes to Naperville some time in the next 100 years, God Forbid!

I have a lot of questions that no one answers with TRUTH, HONESTY or FACTS. All I get is lies by Anonymous after Anonymous.....attacks by Anonymous after Anonymous. Why is anyones suprised that I feel falsehoods are being perpetuated on this blog site to protect Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Benefits, and Big Fat Pensions?


========================================================================================================================================

Since the NFD's own Web Site is only stating 5330 people are transported most likely to Edward's Hospital per YEAR, that is about 14 trips a day to Edward's by our NFD ambulances. Since we have 7 ambulances, that means each NFD ambulance vists Edward's about twice in a 24 hour period.


========================================================================================================================================

That means one NFD ambulance comes to Edward's assuming all patients are transferred to Edward's, about every 2 hours on a 24 hour shift. Pretty much what my nurse friend told me. That also proves what my L-W FF acquaintence told me about BOREDOM the rest of the day.

So there is proof a supporter of Fire Fighters under the handle of ANONYMOUS was lying. Has anyone besiders me felt a need to expose his BLATANT DECEPTION to justify not cutting expenses at the NFD by inflating their work load? Not one blogger questioned him. Why! Why only question ME all the time when I go OVERBOARD to be honest and truthful?

But me who is honest, me who visits sites and observes, me who does research, me who calls nurses at Edward's Hospital to check on bays and activity, is LYING when I am telling the TRUTH. Go figure!

Again I invite anyone to visit Edward's Hospital any time of the day let alone at night, to see if they find 5 NFD ambulances there at one time as our Anonymous Deceiver stated on this Blog Site he see every time he goes there!!! The odds of you seeing 5 at one time is probably 1 in 10,000 if not 1 in 100,000. And that would be related to a very MAJOR ACCIDENT.....and we would hopefully hear about it in the Naperville Sun. Right, Moderator Magee!

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

Since I am willing to change and have, I would like to ask you in the spirit of cooperation to ban the use of the handle ANONYMOUS. You have the ability to do that. You simply don't have to post until they pick a HANDLE. How hard is that? If they forget, send them a notice to pick a HANDLE as you sent me a note when I chose the wrong word for feces. As I can re-submit, they can re-submit. Fair is fair!

The Anonymous who lied about 5 NFD ambulances at one time needs to be snuffed out. He needs to be held accountable for his disgusting distortions. He needs to be held responsible for his lies. He can not be held responsible if you let him roam around lying about others who tell the truth.

If you care about this BLOG SITE, you can make this minor improvement. Anonymous handles have really been attacking ME the MESSENGER in an unfair way. If they had a HANDLE I could take away their credibility very quickly when they lie.

Thank you for considering this request, Moderator Magee. If any other bloggers feel that the use of Anonymous as a HANDLE should be ended please chime in.

I have no problem with the use of the handle Anonymous ONE and think it is appropriate as it is a handle that can be held accoutable. At a mininum an Anonymous Handle should have a number behind it to identify it. If one can not think of a handle name, one should be able to think of a number from 1 to 100. Hopefully, we have less than 100 Anonymous Bloggers on this site.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

JFTR, for those who think I hijack and dominate, my last post was over 13 hours ago.

Here's a news story from the Downers Grove Sun..... Thank god it only took 5 minutes for Firefighters to arrive to a townhouse in DG township. If the alarm had not been working, and the fire department notified right away, we may have had a death in this news story. SECONDS DO COUNT......

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/downersgrovesun/news/1864218,Fire-damages-DG-townhome_DS110409.article

"About 5:30 a.m. Wednesday, the Darien-Woodridge Fire District received a fire alarm signal for a townhouse at 7354 Winthrop Way, in in unincorporated Downers Grove. While enroute to the call, according to a release from the Fire District, fire personnel were updated that there was fire in one of the units."

Firefighters got to the scene five minutes later, and they found a fire in the kitchen, with a lot of smoke in the unit. While fire extinguishment efforts were being conducted, another team searched the unit and found a semi-conscious female on the second floor that firefighters removed to an ambulance for treatment. Another woman, who was not injured, was also located in the basement of this unit. Both were taken to Good Samaritan Hospital in Downers Grove for further treatment and observation.

One person Semi-conscious (smoke will do that to you), and one in the basement (still a sleep, so I was told). Lives saved by firefighters responding quickly, with enough personnel to put two crews to work within 5 minutes.

Think about it.....


"Edward's Hospital has a Health Club on campus that I have been a member of since 1988. I pass by the Emergency Room almost daily usually between 930pm and 11pm on the way to and from my work-outs."

God, which story is the truth now. A few months ago you told us that you worked out at Lifetime Fitness during those same hours...This is what the other bloggers were talking about - you fabricate the story to give credibility to the story.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 4, 2009 2:54 PM
But there is no reason not to decrease personal by not replacing those who retire. Roughly 7 FFs retire each year. If we had not been replacing FFs we would have a lot less....in my opinion we need a few less.
I have suggested closing half the FSs between the hours of midnight and 6am.
_____________________

So CIJ I will ask again, What effect will your idea of having less ff and closing stations at night have on the cities insurance premiums and ratings? And by extension will this have an effect on our homeowners policies?

CSI, you think being a fire fighter or cop is easy? What exactly have you ever done so we can compare the two jobs to whatever your job was (if you ever had one) When we get your job resume, then we can review the two jobs. You couldnt walk one day in either job, but we know you are good at one thing, LYING... And I will make you happy with my name. You can call me Mr Anonymous...

All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances. If they sleep all night in the firehouse as you stated, then why were there so many at the hospital???


========================================================================================================================================

This is an OUTRIGHT LIE. You said after MIDNIGHT and you stated 5 Naperville Ambulances. I pass by that area ALMOST every day before and after midnight.

I am talking about reductions between 12am and 6am and not in the afternoon.

As far as the pictures that were taken in the day, Moderator Magee, can you confirm that 5 of those ambulances were in fact Naperville Fire Ambulances? That is what we are talking about.

Edward's Hospital services a very large area that includes many towns including Wheaton, Warrenville, Lisle, Woodridge, Bolingbrook, Plainfield and parts of Aurora. Those ambulances could be from any of those towns. They could be from Superior Ambulance which constantly shuffles nursing home patients back and forth and has nothing to do with NFD even though it works Naperville.


========================================================================================================================================


The bottom line is the 5,330 patients transported by the NFD to all hospitals and not just Edward's prove you lied when you said you saw 5 NPD ambulances there EVERY night AFTER MIDNIGHT....your exact words.

========================================================================================================================================

Once again the numbers don't add up according to the NFD's own Web Site. This is about 14 trips a day to Edward's assuming all trips are there and not to Good Samaritan which has a trauma center that can handle what Edward's can not in very serious injury cases. They are a higher level trauma center than Edward's according to my L-W Fire Fighter acquaintence who is high ranking in that department.

14 trips a day means each of our 7 NFD ambulances visits on average Edward's at most twice a day in a 24 hour shift. As you know the NFD works 24 hour shifts. This leaves them with 22 hours of spare time assuming each visit takes an hour. With 20 hours spare time assuming each visit takes them 2 hours. Boredom can set in just as I was told. There is an immense amount of downtime in the NFD. If not, why are they shopping for groceries, cooking gourment meals for lunch and dinner, and subjecting themselves to washing dishes instead of eating FAST FOOD like the rest of the busy civilian population when we are on the job.

Again, I stand by my assertion that you lied especially since I observe that area late night every night. I pass by it several times in the evening as I go downtown, to the health club in the Edward's compound and to transport kids back and forth from school.

And please Moderator Magee, since you got pictures please let us know how many were NFD ambulances which is what we are discussing.....remember he stated 5 NFD ambulances after midnight. Do you see even 5 NFD ambulances in broad day light? Do you see 5 that look IDENTICAL? Please issue FULL DISCLOSURE and let us get to the bottom of who is lying.

Plus I encourage bloggers who pass there after MIDNIGHT to make an observation. It is only 50 yards West of Washington. I emphasize I have never even seen 2 NFD ambulances after MIDNIGHT there despite thousands of visits since 1988. Most nights I see NONE! I encourage bloggers to visit and be EYEWITNESSES as to who is lying. Maybe, the Moderator can take a moment and visit one night since he appears to be the only one trusted by both sides.

Thank you,

CIJ

########################################################################################################################################

PS. And JFTR to the last blogger, I have also been a member of Life Time Fitness for the last 10 years and have been to the Warrenville, Bolingbrook and Burr Ridge clubs to work out with friends who are only members there. A friend bought me the MEMBERSHIP FEE or RIGHTS and I continued my payments which are $59.99 monthly. I have no credibility issues. The credibility issues are in your heads. I go to both frequently. In the last month 20 times to Edward's and 10 times to Life Time Fitness. Edward's closes at 10pm which is way to early for me on some days. It closes at 7pm on Saturday and Sunday. It is closer to my home. But LifeTime is open 24/7 and I needed it due to the lousy hours at Edward's. But going to Edward's when it is open does save subtantial time and gas due to proximity to my home.

It is a lot less expensive to be healthy than make frequent visits in NFD ambulances at taxpayer expense to Edward's which will sock you the price of 5 years of membership dues in one visit to the ER. So the price of my memberships are well worth it.

CIJ said:

"The Anonymous who lied about 5 NFD ambulances at one time needs to be snuffed out. He needs to be held accountable for his disgusting distortions. He needs to be held responsible for his lies. He can not be held responsible if you let him roam around lying about others who tell the truth."
---------
Huh, he lied? (Please read up several posts about the photos regarding the number of ambulances in Edwards' ambulance bay, and the number that it can hold at any one time.)

"SNUFFED OUT" CIJ...really? Even in jest? When will your nonsense comments come back to haunt you, will it take a subpoena at some point to find out who you are? And you wonder why we post as anonymous...we really don't like to deal directly with the likes of you. I didn't used to be anonymous here, but I really don't want my old handle even involved anymore. Not even as a made up, fictitious handle.

Good catch with the Edwards Health Club and Lifetime, I remember that as well, but wouldn't have without Anonymous' prompting. This is why we don't converse with CIJ and this is why it perhaps is coming to a head at this time...same old BHO and friends lies. On and on forever, until any good conversation on this blog has been chased away.

I will pay to have my firehouse 2 blocks from my home. Over the years I pay some more in taxes, I also receive a discount on my homeowners insurance for close proximity to the fire station. I watched a neighbor be revived and transported after a coronary episode and I watched a neighbor transported with cancer complications. It's worth it.

One thing, if you ask any firefighter or paramedic how things are with their bodies at around 50 years old, it's pretty severe. It takes a lot to haul fire fighting equipment, haul heavy people, climb up and down. There aren't that many "back end" jobs in the field. Just something to think about. A lot of bad backs, wrenched shoulders. And no, I am not a firefighter and do not have one in my family.

It's hard to take a picture while driving..... But, one ambulance was from Bolingbrook, one had the yellow strip that Lisle-Woodridge has, and ALL of the others have the red strip that Naperville has. In the photo you can see M6, M9 and M4. M6 and M9 are from the rear and are at the entrance to the garage. M4 is the ambulance parked at the exit to the garage.

Stormynights,

Here is a deal for you.

Let us have subdivision referendums.

Let us see which subdivisions are willing to close half the fire stations at night nearest to them.

Let us see what subdivisions want the fire station nearest their homes opened all the time regardless of expense.

The subdivisions who want around the clock Fire Stations and never have one by their home closed between 12am to 6am have a price to pay. The ones who are willing to have FSs closed at night nearest their subdivisions are exempt for this price.

========================================================================================================================================

The price for you and those who think like you Stormnights is this.

1. Come up with the $14.1 million operating budget deficit.

2. Come up with the $20.5 million that was lost in the Naperville Police @ Fire Pension Funds this year that taxpayers are responsible for.

3. Find a way to deal with the $126.2 million City of Naperville Accured Actuarial Pension Liability Deficit that continues to INFLATE like a ballon and will IMPLODE like a ballon.

========================================================================================================================================

Since you and your supporters won't let us make the necessary cuts to eliminate these deficits, than put your MONEY where your MOUTHS are and pay up. Do you have a clue how much this would cost say the HALF of the HOMEOWNERS who do not want cuts since they would be responsible for them?

Since my supporters and I are willing to make cuts and live with such things as 5 Fire Stations between 12am and 6am on WEEKNIGHTS(Sun.-Thurs.), we should be exempt from having to come up with this unimaginable amount of money caused by the INEFFICIENCIES in the NFD and most other departments in the City of Naperville.

Right now FORECLOSURE in Naperville is over 100 times the risk of a FIRE. There was not a single death last year in Naperville as a result of a fire. Ignition goes to flash in 3 mintues. Lives are being saved by less flammable building materials, sprinkler systems, smoke detectors, and fire alarms as I don't know that any FD has a 3 minute response time.

By not agreeing to make the necessary cuts as you may be fully employed or independently wealthy, you are showing INSENSITIVITIES to the 10% unemployed and 17% underemployed in Naperville who are struggling to put food on the table let alone paying for escalating REAL ESTATE TAXES. I suspect they are willing to take a 1 in 100,000 chance of fire, than a CERTAINTY of having to live in the FREEZING COLD winter next to HOMELESS Mr. Scott Huber, due to foreclosure and/or bankruptcy.

****************************************************************************************************************************************

"I say this to everyone, if you don't like Naperville then get the hell out," says Stormynights.

Fine, we will get out but do you really have all this money in your bank account to fund all these deficits without contributions from the rest of us who you are demanding to get the hell out of town because we are asking for BUDGET CUTS instead of TAX INCREASES. Now if that does not sound ARROGANT, I don't know what does.(And since you personally want me out of town, Stormynights, you should PERSONALLY compensate for the $70,000 I pay in real estate taxes annually. Open your bank account and shut your diarrhea mouth and motor tongue.)People who talk like you, usually don't have a nickel in savings to their name. JUST BIG MOUTHS that want to kick the less fortunate out of town.


****************************************************************************************************************************************

TALK is CHEAP if you can not put your MONEY where your MOUTH is.

I think that is a fair solution. If you want no cuts, pay for all these deficits.

If you understand cuts are necessary, than you don't have to pay for all these deficits.

I bet if you had a referedum most people will join my side in the REFERENDUM in these trying economic times. Keep in mind those who are not unemployed or underemployed, most likely got pay cuts and benefit cuts and have no extra money for HIGHER TAXES. They most probably received no cuts in Big Fat Pensions as most civilians do not get them.

Thank you,


CIJ

CIJ got me thinking. I vaguely remember someone posting about the fire department in a thread I read long ago. Instead of regurgitating what I couldn't remember I decided to get the information from the horses' mouth.

So late this afternoon I stopped at a Naperville fire station with my son under the guise that he was writing a report about firemen. The information was enlightening. When asked about their average day they told us that it starts at 7 am. At that time they switch spots with the other firemen who worked the day before. The firemen who are leaving tell them about significant things tht happened in the district where they work and what to look out for today.

The firemen then spend the next approx. 1 1/2 hours checking the vehicles and all the ems gear. I asked why it has to be checked every day and was told that people's lives (including the firemen) depend on the equipment and gear operating at 100% all of the time. They told me if they find a problem it is immediately fixed.

After the gear is checked they have a meeting to determine what they are doing that day. Today the firemen had to go on inspections and do training. When asked for specifics I was told that every business and condo/apartment building in Naperville gets inspected once per year. They look for violations that would be dangerous to the patrons or residents if an emergency should occur. They said this took up there afternoon when they weren't on a call. We asked about the training. They said that was completed in the morning before lunch. They said there is training every day, most of it to meet state requirements. When pressed on this issue they said that every fireman has to have a certain number of hours in things like ems, tools, their air pack, etc. to meet state standards annually.

When we went into the kitchen my son asked if they hire a cook. They said that they do the cooking. Every day they each put in money and shop for the days groceries. Today for lunch they had hamburgers and tater tots. Dinner was spaghetti with homemade garlic bread and a salad.

As the tour continued we passed a weight lifting room. A couple firemen were in there. I told them it must be nice to get paid to lift weights. Their response was that keeping fit not only kept health insurance and workers comp claims lower for the city it also made them better able to perform tough physical jobs when on a call.

When asked how the rest of the day was going to go they said that by the time they ate dinner and mopped the floors it would be close to 7 pm and they would have some free time.

My son asked if they stayed up all night and they said no. They each had a bed to sleep in but they were available for calls. They said it is almost guaranteed that they will get a couple calls at night.

Apparently the Naperville firemen missed the boat and should have been hired in Lisle where boredom is an every day occurence. On the other hand if the Naperville firemen ever have to come to my house I'll feel confident that they know what they are doing.

What about the rest of the story in Downers Grove?

Sounds like there were no smoke alarms in the units? The people should have been awaken and out.

A baseement resident? Illegal? Was it set up to be sleeping quarters? How can you sleep through a smoke alarm?

More interesting, there was a fire. There were only 102 actual fires in Naperville in 2008?

I am interested in that professional organization cited earlier. Looks like too many firemen, not enough practical people. Ten full time firehouses in Naperville for 140,000 residents. Chicago has approximately 100 firehouses (using the phone book, could not find an "Official listing", excluding O'Hare and Midway airport facilities) for 3 million people. Five percent of the people (and much lower commerical and industrial property), but yet ten percent of the number of firehouses.

What about an audit to reconcile the two numbers? 200 firemen for 102 fires. All of these comments about time and lives are a rouse. Smoke and CO2 detectors save lives, not firemen.

We need solutions and rationalizing waste will not cut taxes.

My Dear friends and colleagues here at the Sun Blog site -
I bring you exciting news of a new and interesting game, and hope that you will all find it to be a worthwhile pursuit.
I have decided that, since we're all trying valiantly to help our friend, compatriot, and fellow blogger CIJ figure out how to make his posts better, there is no more interesting way than to rewrite his postings! Fun! You may also play along at home.
For my first attempt at this new game, which I do hope you'll join regularly, let's take a shot at rewriting the Nov. 4th 5:40 PM posting, shall we?
Go ahead and scroll back up to take a look at it, if you want. I can wait.
Are you back? Oh, hurray. Nice to see you again.
Let's begin -

===================================================

Anonymous, I think it's unlikely that there were 5 Naperville ambulances at Edward after midnight. Some of the ones you saw may have been from other towns, since Edward serves areas other than Naperville, and there may be more in place during the afternoon than at midnight. There are also private ambulances that seem to serve the local nursing homes, and those would be more likely to be there during daylight hours, too.
The numbers from the NFD website don't add up to that many ambulance trips on a very regular basis. Maybe what you observed was some sort of special training exercise? I don't know for sure. I am oten in that area in the late hours of the evening, passing by regularly after dark, and I don't recall ever seeing that many ambulances there at that time. I think I would have noticed that much activity, and wondered why they were all there.
For those of you who regularly drive by Edward, take a peek as you go by, or spend a few extra seconds of your day to pull into the lot and see if you observe a congregation of ambulances there, like we've had reported. I guess it's possible, but my experience doesn't bear it out. That would be good, since we could all report what we've seen and maybe that would help us figure out how busy it is without having to rely on only one or two people. Always a good idea to have more data points, right?
Oh, by the way, I do work out at Edward, but am also a member at Lifetime, mostly because they're open 24 hours and sometimes that suits my schedule a bit better. One is closer, but not always that convenient. I do recommend working out regularly, it's a healthy choice and even two monthly memberships is a lot less expensive than an ambulance ride to the emergency room!
Thank you,
NOT-CIJ!
++++++++++++++++++++++

Did you like it? Join in!

CIJ,
I am so confused, could you help me out? You said "Edward's Hospital has a Health Club on campus that I have been a member of since 1988. I pass by the Emergency Room almost daily usually between 930pm and 11pm on the way to and from my work-outs"
But later you indicated that the Club closes at 10 p.m. Something doesn't seem right here, unless you workout for less than half an hour and then? Laps around the closed building?
I am confused.
Sr. de la Anonymous

How about you all take a breather. We are talking about real people and real jobs. Government employees have always had the better when it comes to benefits because in exchange for these beneifts they lack the private sector upside in earnings growth, company stock, moving up the corporate ladder etc. $20-30 increase in overall property tax per person is not going to break the bank for a Naperville resident. It's expensive to live here already and if $20-30 is going to for you to foreclose or not be able to sell your home...we'll...something is wrong here.

CIJ,

Most Napervillians (almost certainly including most of your neighbors) don't own any investment property in Naperville, so the money we pay in taxes for the fire department is paid only on the property where our families sleep at night, and in which we keep most, if not all, of our most cherished possessions. This is obviously not the case with you, since the bulk of what you pay in taxes is not for your own home. With this in mind, you shouldn't be so confident that ANY subdivision in Naperville would vote to close the nearest fire station.

-JQP

Naperguy,

No one is saying Naperville Firefighters are bad people or don't work. All I am trying to say is they have EXCESS FAT like any other department in the City....like any other corporation in the world.

Yesterday, a profitable corporation, Johnson and Johnson announced it was laying 7% of its work force or approximiately 8200 people. It has 4.57 in earning per share but is pre-empting what it suspects are further deteriorations in the economy plus trying to remain competitive in the gloabal market.

We in the City of Naperville are not in the black. We are in a deep red hole. I wonder how many of these 8200 people live in Naperville. More and more people are being laid off increasing the unemployment numbers.

Trying to protect the Fire Dept from contributing its fair share of 10% cuts means you need 20% cuts from the Police Dept. Is that fair to the NPD? In all honestly I think they have more stress than the fire fighters, work harder and have more risk to life and limb.

You appear to be gainfully employed Naperguy. I am too. Thank God we are both lucky. The difference between you and I is I am sensitive to the ones less fortunate in this town. You are not sensitive to them. I make weekly visits to Mr. Huber with contributions to keep his generator going so he does not freeze to death. You probably don't care if he freezes to death. Many of us could experience his same fate if we lose our home and jobs. We need to be sensitive to the less fortunate who can not afford higher taxes right now.

You and many others like you don't seem to understand that people are suffering in this town...that foreclosure is a much greater threat than a fire to their homes.

They don't want to be in the streets. They need lower real estate taxes instead of higher real estate taxes so they can hang on a little longer to their homes in hope of getting a job when the economy finally rebounds if it ever does. In Japan, it never rebounded after the real estate bubble of 1991. I have a feeling we will not see a rebound either for a very very long time.

If as you say FFs are getting 2 calls a day that is 20 calls all night long for 10 stations. Why can't 5 Fire Stations field these 20 calls instead of 10? That is 4 calls per station per 8 hour shift or one every 2 hours assuming the FF did not exaggerate just a little bit. I am pretty sure there are not 20 calls going to Edward's each night. I will continue researching that one. And let us face it fires are very rare these days. Once a month maybe we see a serious fire....not one in a garbage can or dumpster.

Now the L-W Fire Fighter told me on most week nights they get no calls. Some days they get one...some days they get 2. Most none!

On weekends he told me a different story. That is why I am not calling for Fire Stations to be closed on weekend nights when people are irresponsibly drinking in large numbers and driving intoxicated. To bad we have to save tax money saving these stupid people but I guess we do.

A FF is not going to want a civilian to know that sometimes he can get 8 hours of sleep and make $177.52 while sleeping. It just does not sound good. So of course he is going to tell you we will get a call or two in the wee hours of the night and not mention that sometimes we get no calls.

The bottom line is you confirmed a lot of what I am saying. Most civilians who work do not have time to shop for groceries on the job and cook 2 meals and wash the dishes. That is something we do on our time.

Most civilians also lift weights so they can handle stress and sometimes the rigors of their jobs if they are factory workers. We don't get paid $22.19 cents while lifting weights. We do it on our own time. How lucky they get paid to lift weights and have weights bought for them from taxpayer money. They should be out inspecting the 50,000 residences in Naperville to make sure they are safe in their spare time and not watching TV and surfing the net while making $22.19 per hour.

We don't have easy time that allows us to watch TV or surf the net from 7pm to midnight before we go to sleep and get paid 22.19 an hour. We don't get paid 22.19 per hour to sleep and risk 2 interruptions to our sleep.

They are good humans and performing a service. But let us not feel sorry for them. They are being paid very well. They have 90% of their health, dental, eyewear and presciption benefits paid for them by us taxpayers. And we give them 75% pensions based on their highest and final salary with 3% increases at the very young age of 52 when they are very healthy or should be from all that weight lifting. I do weight lifting every day and I feel like I am 32. I can not ever imagine retiring at age 52 and expecting a Big Fat Pension from taxpayers...just not fair!

We are taking care of them to an extent that exceeds what we can afford.

Due to their losses in the stock market we are now paying in excess of 25% in matching contributions for them while they are make 9.45% of contributions for themselves. Despite these massive contributions we make for them the ACCRUED ACTUARIAL PENSION LIABILITY DEFICIT continues to go South. I don't want to write the numbers again and make you folks sick. They make me sick.

You guys all love the fire fighters. I understand. But how are you going to save them from their FINANCIAL DILEMNA is what I am asking. Does anyone know? Can one person not be EVASIVE? How about you Moderator Magee since you proved you can get to the point and stop circling when I pounded on you last night. No one else seems to be able to get to the point no matter how hard I hit them over the head with a sledgehammer.

Why do you feel so strongly that FFs should not contribute somehow something to help us get out of massive deficits and pension fund losses of which they are greatly responsible for?

Why do we need to pay fire fighters 60k for a starting salary when we can have a line of qualified 22 year olders with college degrees willing to work for 40k? This alone will reduce pension costs by 33.33%.

Do you understand, NaperGuy that the City of Naperville has a $126.2 million pension liability deficit? Do you undertand that the stae of Illinios has been demanding we reduce it? Do you understand the State of Illinois wants it eliminated by 2033?

Do you understand that instead of decreasing it we have been increasing it despite the massive contributions Naperville Citizen make into the P and F Pension Funds???

Like I said we all want things we can't have. I would like a 3 million McMansion but I know I can't have it since I can not afford it. The nurse that I picked up wanted her Mercedes that she could not afford and sufferered the consequences of repossession.

The FFs want and want and want. Fine, who is going to pay for it. The unemployed and underemployed residents! The residents who took pay-cuts. The residents who had their benefits cut. The residents who lost their private pension plans 20 years ago. Yes, who is going to pay for all this MADNESS you and others want for our FFs?

None of you can answer the question.

All you all do is lie and lie and pretend ambulances are providing non-stop shuttle service to Edward's Hospital from midnight to 6am when I see almost NONE night after night.

All I am saying is let us not pay the Firefighters every other night $22.19 for sleeping. Let them be at home with their families and let us save some money.

In the meantime there will always be half as many as before working the graveyard shift and they will be working a little harder. Believe me they will still get some sleep and will still get $22.19 for sleeping but will not get paid as much as before for sleeping.

That is all.

Thank you,
CIJ

By Senor de la Anonymous on November 4, 2009 8:28 PM
CIJ,
I am so confused, could you help me out? You said "Edward's Hospital has a Health Club on campus that I have been a member of since 1988. I pass by the Emergency Room almost daily usually between 930pm and 11pm on the way to and from my work-outs" But later you indicated that the Club closes at 10 p.m. Something doesn't seem right here, unless you workout for less than half an hour and then? Laps around the closed building?
I am confused.

Sr. de la Anonymous


========================================================================================================================================

There is really nothing confusing.

Edwards Health and Fitness Center closes the outside doors at 10:00pm sharp on weekdays. If you get there at 930pm you can work out 30 minutes and finish your last routine which may take you to 10:05 pm.

After that you must head to the locker room IMMEDIATELY which is open till 1030pm. You can shower, use mouth wash they provide, sit in the steam room which is inside the locker room, lotion up as they provide lotion for both males and females, shave as they provide shaving cream for both males and females, weigh yourself or whatever. Most members take advantage of this half hour grace period to clean up. There are separate locker rooms for males and females if curiosity is killing you.

You must exit the respective locker room by 1030pm and head out the building shortly thereafter. By the time you are out of the building it may be 1035pm or 1040pm. If you make a phone call before you begin driving or chat with a friend in the parking lot it is about 10:45pm- 11pm by the time you pass by the Emergency Area.

That is why my posts are long. You guys want to know all the details but yet complain about confusion if you get a short post.

You can not have your cake and eat it.

Everything adds up and is just right. Sorry you are so confused. At least you were not too accusatory so I will take it easy on you this one time.

Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================


PS. And JFYI I have never ever seen anyone do laps around the closed building in 21 years of being a member there. You guys really have BIG IMAGINATIONS. Where are your IMAGINATIONS though for ways to cut the budget? Are you all blanking out in that department...lol???

Hello JQP and Enough:

I live in a Townhouse subdivision - Carrolwood Park. That's just off Fort Hill Dr between Aurora Ave and Ogden. I know I am within City limits, just down the road from the new public works building. City does not plow our streets nor pick up our leaves. Our association does this. I pay an assessment for these services on top of my taxes to the City/SD and other taxing authorities. I even asked my association if City is supposed to plow our streets -- was told yes. But it doesn't happen.

To the posters who say they like Naperville and don't mind paying, my response is that this is my home. I grew up here, my mother and father grew up here as did my mother's mother. I don't mind paying taxes to support the necessary parts of City government. What I do object to is unnecessary spending and benefits that are just not reasonable in these times. I can't imagine that any of us would expect to NEVER have an increase in our taxes. But with the reduction in our properties' values, we reasonably expect to see our property taxes drop. Like each of us must do with our personal budget, the City also needs to do. They need to make cuts to the point where they can balance their budget -- not constantly take more and more from its citizens. I am sorry if my words seem callous to City employees. But, unfortunately, it is reality. The law firm where I work has laid off many employees -- some had worked there upwards of 20 years, hours have been cut for many as well. Extra, unnecessary spending was eliminated. Until the City can say that there is absolutely no more reductions that can be made, there should be no increases in taxes.

With all of us having less in our pockets to spend, raising taxes is not the answer.

School District taxes will be another topic to be sure. Teachers got raises even though the economy was sinking. At my job, we are not getting increases. That's just the way it is right now.

Teachers and government employees need to tune into the reality channel.

Your math has a flaw that must be pointed out and corrected. When looking at the number of calls that the Naperville Fire Department respond to.... your equation or mathematical statement would go sometime like.... One call number = one vehicle responds.

We know that this equation is missing one element. The number of vehicles that respond per call number.... Your equation, in order to be correct, it should be.... One call number X number of vehicles that respond for that call = number of times the firefighters leave the station.

Let me give an example to back the equation....
1) For a Car crash. An engine and an ambulance will respond. The ambulance will handle most of the medical treatment, but it takes 4 people to "properly" and "correctly" move a person with a back injury onto a backboard. This is called spinal immobilization. What if there are 2 or more patients requiring an advanced level of care, more ambulances are called to the crash (only one run number is given to this entire call).

If a door on one of the cars is damaged, and can not be opened, a ladder truck must be called. The ladder trucks carry the "jaws of life" tools. Now you my say... just take them out another door. Again, when in a car crash, the spine must be kept straight and in alignment. Moving out another may cause further spinal injury.

2) Fire alarms. When a fire alrm sounds at a nursing home, hotel, school, warehouse, large commercial, anywhere downtown (do to most of the buildings having common walls and common basements).... etc.. More than one vehicle is sent.

3) Fire Alarm with a 911 call. Many times, when a fire alarm is received in an apartment building, there is a followup 911 call received from a resident stating something like... "I smell smoke" or "The fire alarm is going off and someone said they smelled smoke" or "I see smoke in the hallway." This happens a great deal of the time.

I could continue, but I wish to keep this post short.

The factor I added to the equation is fluid. The factor "X" is ever changing. But, with this additional factor added, the number of times that firefighters leave their station to backup or support another station in town increases (the lisle woodridge firefighter spoken of many times in this blog will support this fact).

So, with factor "X" added, does this mean that one day factor "X" maybe 5 and another day factor "X" maybe 15??? Do to the fact that factor "X" is fluid, one must also assume that the number of times a firefighter levels their station is also fluid. How do you put a set number to this, or do you???

Questions and talk on this blog about why Firefighters workout on duty......

Your answers to this question can be found at the NFPA website, in standards 1500, 1582 and mostly in 1583. All you need to do is setup a sign in and you can look thru all standards. They block you from doing cut and paste. You can also see the names and backgrounds of the committee that wrote these standards. Most of these are written by people in private industry and medical fields.

Long and short of the matter.... There are requirements set forth for physical fitness.....

BENEFITS OF NAPERVILLE FIRE FIGHTERS FROM THEIR OWN WEB SITE:

========================================================================================================================================


City of Naperville benefits include:
• Employee and Family Medical Insurance
• Dental Insurance
• City-paid Life Insurance (additional life insurance available)
• Short-term Disability Plan
• Fireman’s Pension Fund with Employee
and City Contributions
• 457 Deferred Compensation Plans
• Retiree Health Savings Plan
• Paid Vacation
• Tuition Reimbursement Plan
• Employee Assistance Plan
• Medical Expense Reimbursement Plan
• Dependent Care Assistance Plan
• Uniforms and Personal Protective
Equipment


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The starting pay of a Naperville FF is about $60,000

His Pension Benefits per year are roughly 25% of his $60,000 or $15,000.

His health benefit package is 14,400 or 90% of $16,000

His dental package is $810 or 90% of $900.

These 3 benefits alone are worth $31,900.

I do not know the value of the 10-12 other benefits but let us say another $28,100.

So a new FF may cost us $120,000 per year give or take a few thousand.

Can you imagine they have a TUITION REIMBURSEMENT PLAN. Let us hope they are not going to Northwestern or University of Chicago where tuition is 40-50k annually at TAXPAYER EXPENSE.

Why do we need to buy them LIFE INSURANCE since they have a huge pension that survivors can inherit? What a duplicity and waste of money! How much are we buying them in LI?

The Retiree Health Plan I believe gives FFs health insurance just like active employees from age 52 to 65 until they qualify for Medicare. Amazing!

Does anyone know anything about the Medical Assistance Plan?

Does anyone know anything about the Dependent Care Assistance Plan?

Does anyone know anything about the Employee Assistance Plan?

I assume they also receive Eyewear and Prescription Benefits but there was no place on the FF Web Page left to mention them as the list of benefits was more than a page long.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


The Salary, Benefits and Pensions that we give Fire Fighters are simply UNIMAGINANLE and UNAFFORDABE.

Our City Officials and Council Members have their heads in concrete.

They will never balance the budget, re-stock the lost Pension Funds of $20.5 million, or eliminate the Accrued Actuarial Pension Liability of $126.2 million behaving in such a FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE way by giving employees the kitchen sink and then some.

While watching City Council Members approve a $16,000,000 Medical Insurance Plan for employees on Tuesday no demand was made to increase employee contributions from the dismal 10% level. One CM kind of mentioned it in passing with some lip service as if for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION and then voted to approve the $16 million package or about $16,000 per employee with no CONDITION of greater participation.

Which private employer can afford to pay $14,400 in just health benefits for an employee? Which private employer can throw in $15,000 in annual matching contributions for future pensions?

And when the near $1 million for Dental was approved not one City Council Member demanded an increase from the 10% level of emplyee contributions. A little lip in passing by one or two but no DEMAND. Our City Council was SHAMEFUL.

My suspician is our Council Members are receiving the same benefits as city employees and don't want to pay up or make sacrifices. I am almost sure they are.

I never really believed these CM ran for elected office to truly represent the residents. I believe they ran for office for the Big Fat Benefits especially the Medical of $14,400. They don't even read their packets something that is obvious if you watch City Council Meetings regularly as I do.

It is really a shame how bad things are in this town. As I have been telling you this is a Stepford Wives Town where they do what they want. Once they get you in their system, they gobble you up and you no longer represent the people that elected you. It is DISGUSTING.

Our only hope for now to control wasteful spending is to abolish HOME RULE. They will still attempt to screw us but with limitations in place. They can still take the bath tub but hopefully not the kitchen sink.

Don't believe that your taxes are only going up $40.00. Rather than pay for a 1.5 million RiverWalk project out of the OPERATING FUND they borrow money and use the existing money to fatten Benefit and Pension Contributions. Who knows what else they are amoritizing instead of expensing to cover up for the dire condition of our City's financial well being?

========================================================================================================================================


The Napergate Man warned you folks and now I am warning you. Something is really wrong in City Hall....something is amiss in Peg's Palace.

========================================================================================================================================

Yes, they increased Pension Contributions by $1 million to each of the police and fire funds. That $2 million alone will cost the taxpayers the total $40 that they plan on increasing our taxes just to keep things in perspective. And this extra $40 will be long lasting as the increased contributions are not only permanent but increasing annually. I am not sure how much they increased contributions in the IMRF Pension Fund which was deeply in the BIG RED HOLE to the tune of an extra $17.2 million in 1 year.

This 40 dollar tax increase is a gimmick. What they will do now is borrow and borrow for normal expenditures and amortize them over 30 years in order to maintan their Big Fat Salaries, Benefits and Pensions. They will do what the Feds are doing....borrowing and borrowing making the situation worse in the long term. Not only do they not care about us, but they do not care about our children...just like the Napergate Man told us a decade ago. He had them figured out....why are we still sleeping after what he revealed to us? Why are we still in denial after his revelation in his Napergate Series of ads?

They had a Kangaroo Trial and tried to lynch the Napergate Man because he was on to them. Every liquor store makes a mistake here and there. Name ONE OTHER in the history of Naperville that had a Kangaroo Trial set up by the Stepford Wives Council. The Napergate Man won the Kylix Award for the most responsible retailer in the country awarded jointly by the Newspaper Guild and National Retail Liquor Association and they were trying to frame him.....for what....because he had caught on to how they were FATTENING THEMSELVES at taxpayer expense. Now with our Financial Tsunami here, it is ever so obvious what the Napergate Man was trying to tell us. I honestly feel like I am watching a horror movie.

Just like my nurse friend lost her Mercedes due to overspending our City Officials will destroy our city due to overspending.

These City Officials can deceive anyone. They managed to bury 10 million dollars in costs for the Napergate Trials and all they could do is tell the citizens we did not keep records. Common folks, how could you support any of your council members. I no longer trust anyone of them even with a 10 foot pole. They are put in the same MOLD once they are elected and ROBOTED.

The Naperville Sun needs to wake up the residents before it is too late. Not only is the PENSION SYSTEM on the verge of an IMPLOSION but the whole financial structure in the City is on the verge of COLLAPSE.

I think we need to call the FBI and US Attorney's Office to launch a full scale investigation into the alleged Corruption of City Hall. Let us hope they can obtain a Conviction of City Hall and end our nightmare.

Thank you,

CIJ


****************************************************************************************************************************************

PS. I hope you folks finally understand why the supporters of City Hall are attacking me day and night. Don't be fooled by them. I am as sane as they come. They just don't want someone uncovering their alleged improprieties. They don't want NAPERGATE II.

And please folks, don't allow the GANG MENTALITY on this blog site to influence your decison making. Keep in mind they tried to do the exact same thing to the Napergate Man and he cremated all of them. Let us all be strong and united in our battle against alleged Corruption in City Hall. Let us all seek a CONVICTION of City Hall.

Diane,

Thank you for your response. I absolutely agree that the city should not raise our property taxes one iota in the current economy. I don't agree, though, that our property taxes should, in principal, decline given a decline in home values. In fact, I think property taxes should be set at a fixed percentage of what you paid for your home, with some allowance for inflation over the years. The problem with tying property taxes to the current value of a house is that a home's value often increases much faster than the homeowner's income, but the homeowner doesn't realize much financial benefit from this increase until he or she actually sells the home. The flip side, or course, is that declining property values don't impact a homeowner's bank account unless and until he/she has to sell in a down market.

-JQP

Variant of jealous

jealous definition jeal·ous (jel′əs)

adjective

resentfully suspicious of a rival or a rival's influence a husband jealous of other men

I like new games to play with CSI. Lets start with a quiz.

CSI is jealous because:

A) she does not have a job and is Jealous of others who do, this would include Fireman/Police Officers.

B) she has alot of time on her hands working out (alledgely) at two health clubs and still has time to blog at 3am when the pot smoker is just coming home and is jealous that others are more successful than her.

C) constantly refers to the Napergate man who has NEVER once acknowledged her or her comments and is jealous that he doesnt care one bit about her opinion.

D All of the above

I think the new and more appropriate name for CSI is simply, The repeater...

CIJ wrote: "I think we need to call the FBI and US Attorney's Office to launch a full scale investigation into the alleged Corruption of City Hall. Let us hope they can obtain a Conviction of City Hall and end our nightmare."

Go ahead and call and let us know what they say.

Ok, clearly CIJ will never give it up on his own ..... he's WAY too found of the sound of his own voice (or click of his own typing .... whatever the case may be). Since no one here has any interest in hearing him rant ON and ON and ON - might I suggest he starts his own blog? All those who are his "fans" ... he claims to have them - can follow, and everyone else can continue to frequent this page and have rational adult discussions on topics that matter to us.

This is NOT the only place CIJ can spew whatever irrational allegations he feels like making day to day - START YOUR OWN SPACE CIJ ..... that is, unless you're afraid no one will follow you. Of course, since you single handedly (in your mind) brought all the success to this blog, yours should be up, running, and get more hits than this one in no time! Heck, I would bet that Moderator Chris would even let you come here once a day and post a link to it, just so that ANYONE who might want to hear what you had to say could find you.

You aren't afraid no would follow are you CIJ?

FOR PUBLICATION


Moderator Magee,

I had to go to Life Time Fitness instead of Edwards last night since I left my home at 953pm.

Anyway, I passed by Edward's at about 958pm and could not see any ambulances from Washington St. even though I was stopped at the stop light on Olser/Emergency.

On the way back I saw Warrenville Ambulance #199 leaving Edward's and making a left turn on Washington at 11:12pm. I pulled in and saw Lisle-Woodridge Amubulance #530 in the enclosed area. Then, I went to check on Mr. Huber and the downtown area, picked up a cup of coffee, and returned to Edwards at 1135pm. The only ambulance there was the same L-W Ambulance #530. No others had arrived.

In 3 visits today I did not see one Naperville Ambulance. I will continue checking religiously and reporting back to you.

I just want to show you that sometimes one person can be more honest than 100 if they have an agenda such as protecting Big Fat Pensions and Bigger Fatter Benefits.

Anyway it will not be difficult to expose those who lie and than accuse me of lying.

Really, the most damning evidence against them is that 7 Naperville ambulances TRANSPORT only an average 14 patients each 24 hour day to Edward's and other hospitals according to the NFD Web Site.

Anyone with common sense, and I know you have lots of common sense Moderator Magee, would not believe the blogger who said "there are always 5 NPD ambulances and 2 L-W ambulances AFTER midnight at Edwards each and every time I am there."UTTER FABRICATION Like I said, I have been going there for 21 years and have never seen more than 2 NPD ambulances at one time there. Most times and especially after MIDNIGHT none. This is a very sleepy town especially on weeknights after midnight, Moderator Magee.

Thank you!

CIJ

PS. Since this blogger distorts reality you can not trust any pictures he sends you or anything he says. I will try to make spot checks in the daytime to get a feel for that Emergency Area and report back to the Sun Blog Site.

CIJ wrote: "I think we need to call the FBI and US Attorney's Office to launch a full scale investigation into the alleged Corruption of City Hall. Let us hope they can obtain a Conviction of City Hall and end our nightmare."

I would be very interested to find out what CIJ finds out IF he takes the reigns and makes the calls himself to the FBI and US Attorney's Office. I wonder where the corruption stops. It is highly possible they may tell him there IS no corruption or conspiracies in Naperville's City Hall. Of course, that would only lead one with common sense to believe that there is yet another cover-up and the scope of the Naperville corruption runs all the way up the ladder. We may never know how many individuals are involved in the scheming. It is even quite possible other countries could be entangled in Naperville's drama. This could be very serious. Just think... an international cover-up! I may even be a City Official disguised as a Regular Joe, attempting to make light of the subject in order to defuse the possibility of someone unraveling our scheme.

Oh... I may have said too much. Nevermind.

About that blog site, though, I second the motion. Poster might flock there in droves and all the life would be siphoned away from Potluck. Or, it may return to the interesting place to read and post that it used to be before all the drama began.

FELLOW NAPERVILLIANS,

Your city officials bought health insurance coverage amounting to $16,000 per city employee per year. That is over $300 dollars per week per employee just for health insurance which is only one of over a dozen benefits.

A McDonald's employee or for that matter most retail employees can not take home a paycheck every week for $300.00 NET after deductions.

And we spend that horrific amount on a ROLLS ROYCE HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY for our city employees and even RETIREES.

Does this policy have any deductibles? My guess is NO!

Does it have any co-pays for doctors visits? My guess is NO!

My guess is it is loaded at taxpayer expense...a disgusting and shameful abuse of taxpayer money.

When my insurance agent informed me my health insurance was doing up substantially, he told me I could increase the deductible from $1750 to $3000 if you don't want your premiums increased.

I agreed to that since I really had no choice. I took a greater risk that I will pay up if something goes wrong as most Americans are now doing to keep their premiums affordable.

How many private citizens, not City Officials masquerading as private citizens, have health insurance policies worth $16,000 a year.

Is the City aware that 47 million Americans can not even afford any kind of health policy let alone a ROLLS ROYCE POLICY.

Where are the voices of reason of Kevin and Diane G. when I need them?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Why should I the taxpayer who is paying for City Employee health insurance with my taxpayer money have to cut down my policy while they pad their policy up to reach ROLLS ROYCE STATUS?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Hopefully, you all watched the Benefits Manager 2 weeks ago presenting a better and more expensive dental policy at taxpayer expense. She got approval from City Council this Tuesday with no stipulation of more employee contributions....just the 10% that is typical for medical, dental and I assume most benefits that City Hall provides including life insurance despite huge pension benefits that can be passed on in the event of death. DUPLICITY is UNCONSIONABLE especially when it is at TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Shame on you all officials in City Hall. I have no nice words for any one of you. You are all the same.....just like the Napergate Man once said. He called you a Stepford Wives Town....not me...I simply agree with him.

Anyway, I think it is shameful taxpayers are making cuts at home and in their health benefits to see City Officials continue to operate in their sickly drunken habit ways.

Just imagine the health insurance benefit for one City Employee is MORE than an employee makes all year in a retail establishment net of taxes.

Just imagine the pension contribution benefit for one PO or FF is MORE than another employee makes all year long in a retail establishment net of taxes.(Keep in mind we are only talking about the new city employees and not the older ones making a 100k a year. Those receive pension contribution benefits exceeding what RETAIL MANAGERS make per year net of taxes....imagine that my FELLOW NAPERVILLANS!)

IS ANYONE SURPRISED WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE MASSIVE DEFICITS THAT I HAVE BEEN DOCUMENTING AND THAT BECOME WORSE ANNUALLY?

Are you going to believe MY TRUTHFUL MESSAGE or the city bashers who are attacking ME the MESSENGER?

Your choice! Believe them if you desire and take it up the whatever.....!

Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

This is the specific sentence I know is a lie....100% sure.

"All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances."

If he said ONE night, I would not doubt him since I am not there every night but frequently. He said each night AFTER midnight. Like I said, I was there 21 times in the last 2 months to pick up a nurse AFTER MIDNIGHT and the most I saw was 1 or 2 ambulances and many times as last night they were not even Naperville Ambulances. Many, many nights thankfully I saw ZERO ambulances from any suburb.

Believe what you will, Moderator Magee. And I did not say we don't need a FIRE DEPARTMENT. I simply said we should close half the stations between 12am to 6am on weeknights. Please don't distort my suggestions or put words in my mouth. You are a MODERATOR who needs to remain neutral. You appear to be clearly siding with City Officials as Host Ted did sometimes.

But I have to COMMEND you for giving us FREEDOM of SPEECH and hopefully the TRUTH will eventually PREVAIL from this civil debate. No one can beat TRUTH, Moderator Magee. Your bloggers are making a mockery of TRUTH just as they did in the Napergate Era before they got eggs in their face. I would strongly suggest you distance yourself from their UNTRUTHFUL ALLEGATIONS and POSITIONS.

Thanks again!

Respectfully,

CIJ

Chris:

If the standard used is that only things personally observed are true, then nothing CIJ has posted is true for me as I have not seen these things to be able to verify their accuracy or truthfulness.

Using CIJ's own logic and standards, it is my opinion that CIJ is a liar when he makes comments about the 17 police officers that were allegedly seen on Washington Street. I have driven through that intersection hundreds of times and never seen more than 2 officers at that location - at any time of the night or day. CIJ's comment is a complete and utter fabrication - based on CIJ's own criteria of veracity. Or is the standard being applied that only things that CIJ sees or believes are true and accurate?

By the way, if there are 4 ambulances at the Frontenac chemical fire, you can be sure that others are on standby else where as well.

When I have more time, I will post more.

If true, $16,000 per employee for health insurance seems too high. It must cover families. If not, it must be a close to zero deductible plan. I am not sure what the labor contracts stipulate, but, for example, Chicago teachers have health plans where they can choose the an HMO, a PPO, or an open network with increasing costs depending on which they choose. If there is a one size fits all non-selective plan here, then the taxpayer dollar is likely being wasted. This appears to be wasteful.

On the FD: Has anyone looked at private companies who might be able to supply some services. That would cut down on future pension obligations. I'd like to see the long term cost comparison/response comparison by offloading the ambulance work to a private company. Maybe someone can create a huge state-wide company to do this work and in so doing bypass the state pension program.

"zzzzzzzz" on the arguments about small personal observation data sets.

-1

By Anonymous on November 5, 2009 4:03 PM
Chris:

Using CIJ's own logic and standards, it is my opinion that CIJ is a liar when he makes comments about the 17 police officers that were allegedly seen on Washington Street. I have driven through that intersection hundreds of times and never seen more than 2 officers at that location - at any time of the night or day. CIJ's comment is a complete and utter fabrication - based on CIJ's own criteria of veracity. Or is the standard being applied that only things that CIJ sees or believes are true and accurate?

========================================================================================================================================

You apparently are blind. Those cops were there one summer weekend night. I counted them plus one canine dog. That was the ALL TIME RECORD for one night. A dozen was more typical on most weekend summer late evenings.

Everyone knows there are 6-8 resource school bike cops out every summer night in downtown in addition to the 2 or 3 on the beat.

Go there(Chicago Ave. and Washington) between 1:30am to 2:15am any summer weekend night and you will see those cops plus cops from other beats to enable an orderly evacuation of the downtown when the bars close.

The records will show the night of the 17 cops, a robber(the same one) managed to rob 2 gas stations a few miles south before any cop could arrive.

I reported that on this blog site and never saw 17 police officers again on that intersection. After my report on this blog site, police presence on that intersection was decreased substantially even before the school cops returned to school.

Be assured I don't lie and cherish my credibility. I can not LIE if I intend to expose you folks like the Napergate Man once did. The Napergate Man was successful because he did not lie. I am a student of his teachings and I promise you I will succeed as I had the best teacher money can buy. The Federal and State Courts proved repeatedly he told the truth while City Officials lied. Many of these same City Officials remain gainfully employed at City Hall embellishing the truth at any opportunity and juncture.

Thanks,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. Calling someone a liar is libel buddy. Please watch your words. I could get your IP number and clean you out. This time I won't. It is OK to say one lies if you are sure as I was.

Taking on CSI's contentions once again.
Really, who has time to sit around and postulate this amount of utter malarkey? It's stunning.
City officials acquiring health insurance amounting to 16k per employee, according to CSI. OK, seems like a lot. But comparing it to a $300 per week fast food employee? Typical of CSI to make a ridiculous comparison, isn't it? Apples to apples, CSI/CIJ, apples to apples.
The listing of insurance given earlier in this thread doesn't see all that shocking. Gov't employees often get a pretty good insurance plan, we all know this. Part of it is the large group that can but into, part of it is simply the cost of doing business. Having fairly recently held a couple of different positions in fairly large companies, Fortune 500 and Fortune 50, the list of benefits outlined earlier doesn't seem extravagant in the least, though it does seem comprehensive. In no way can this be construed as a Rolls Royce package, and if you think that is what it is, a simple google news search of Wall Street executive packages often referred to as a "Cadillac Plan" will give you some examples. Zero deductibles, access to specific and expensive specialists on demand, annual testing even if it is not medically required. More utter hyperbole on CSI's part, again, ramping up from the Cadillac phrase to the Rolls-Royce phrase ,but we've come to expect that, haven't we?
Following this little section of CSI-isms, we next find ourselves with a list of questions, again, complete hyperbole:
Does this policy have any deductibles? My guess is NO!
Does it have any co-pays for doctors visits? My guess is NO!

CSI, Why? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY do you persist in doing this? It;s like a kids attempt at a scare tactic.
What you're saying is, in truth...
Does this policy have any deductibles? My guess is IRRELEVANT, SINCE I HAVE NO IDEA!
Does it have any co-pays for doctors visits? My guess is IRRELEVANT, SINCE I HAVE NO IDEA!

I third the motion, CSI/CIJ whoever you might be. Get your own blog where you can type ALL DAY LONG if you like, and fill the whole thing with your hyperbole, guesses and disinformaation/misinformation. In fact, I'll even help! napergateman.com and napergatemanfan.com are both available! Register one, and you can be your own PUBLISHER! It will be better that having your own newspaper! You can do IT ALL CSI!

You keep talking about your MESSAGE. Those of us who read here know that it's meaningless, but do it, stick it to the man! Start your OWN SITE, it would be perfect for you!

CSI SAY:
Go there(Chicago Ave. and Washington) between 1:30am to 2:15am any summer weekend night and you will see those cops plus cops from other beats...
mere sentences later, CSI SAY:
After my report on this blog site, police presence on that intersection was decreased substantially even before the school cops returned to school.

So, which is it? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT???????

slice it and dice it, baby. Any which way you want, but you can't have it BOTH WAYS. Go there any summer night............. except that it was never like that again. Oh, yeah, and you have NO IDEA AT ALL why you might have seen that many. Perhaps, just perhaps there was something going on in downtown that particular night that you had NO IDEA ABOUT?
But you don't KNOW, so you just make something up that seems to fit your general thesis.
YOU.
MAKE.
SOMETHING.
UP.
THAT.
YOU.
THINK.
FITS.
You do it ALL THE TIME, Ameena. You do it all the time, BHO. You do it all the time, all the time and all the time. Then, you do it again. No one else has the time to waste that you have, so you just keep MAKING THINGS UP, SPINNING useless theory, and making stories fit your ideas.
Wow. How lame.
Find a job, maybe.

"CIJ, I'm really not interested in the number of ambulances at the hospital at any given time like you are. Just because someone sees five ambulances one day and you see none the next day doesn't mean either of you are lying. Sometimes I see four cops on the way home from work and other times I don't see any."

Thank you chris.... Your point is well taken, by most of us. I truely believe this is the case. I believe that call volumes change day to day. I don't believe that one can predict the future, just like I don't believe anyone can predict when and were the fire department will be needed.

I stated.... "WELL, about two weeks ago I had to visit Edward ER several times do to my child being sick and having trouble breathing. Once I had to use a City of Naperville ambulance do to the level of breathing problems. All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances. If they sleep all night in the firehouse as you stated, then why were there so many at the hospital???"

I stated what I viewed, when I viewed it, and nothing more. I did not state what nights, I did not state how many nights, just that I viewed them on the nights I was there.

To quote you....
PS. Calling someone a liar is libel buddy. Please watch your words. I could get your IP number and clean you out. This time I won't. It is OK to say one lies if you are sure as I was.

I have never called you a liar (even if I believe it to be the case). I have not called anyone names, nor have I ever started a fight. When I post I give proof. When I post I supply links to back up my posts. When I post I provide proof in the form of pictures. Chris has asked for no more pictures, so I won't. When someone asks a question, and I can find the answer, I post a link to the answer (along with a short quote to help give the answer).

CIJ, I have never called you anything, I have never posted when I don't believe you, I only post when I can support what I say. CIJ, please do the same for me.......


If one had read the City Council meeting outline,agenda and attachments, posted on the city website, one would have an answer to the question about health care insurance....

Increased co-pay

increased deductibles

increased out-of-pocket maximums

a three-tier prescription drug plan

changes to the flex spend vendor

and more....increases

by the way... a 457, flex spending, etc are all just savings accounts (or retirement savings) simular to the private sector. These accounts have NO effect on the city at all. They are just variations of savings accounts (with no taxpayer money being placed into them).

The retirement health plan is... If you want to continue to have insurance after retirement, you can purchase a COBRA plan thru the city insurance vendor, again no cost to the taxpayer. The only benefit is a reduced rate do to being on a group plan.

Life insurance, less than $50,000 total payout. This sum is just enough to give the family time to get on their feet and pay bills. If you look for a life insurance plan on the web, and look for a group rate, this costs the taxpayers just pennies per year. If the employee wishes, the employee can purchase added coverage out of their own pocket. Again, no cost to the taxpayer.

The city of naperville employees will be paying more under the new insurance program approved by the city last Tuesday. These new "increases" are in line with the private sector....

Why do we have to hear complaints over and over when the answer can be found just a "search" away.

FOR PUBLICATION

By Chris Magee, moderator on November 5, 2009 4:08 PM
CIJ, you keep asking me to comment on things and then when I do and I disagree with you, you insist that I need to remain neutral and above the fray. I think you need to decide what you really want here.

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

As an Editor, News Person, and Moderator I would be expecting you to perform your duties as a WATCHDOG against government.

All I see you saying is that government is fine and doing every thing just right. You are happy with your taxes. You are happy with your services. You can not see anything that City Hall does wrong.

The previous Moderator came on here and stated he would be on them with blanket coverage if he was still the Editor/Publisher at your newspaper. He would be running stinging editorials and/or opinions.

I am honestly very disappointed in you that you don't think $16,000 per employee for health insurance is OUTRAGEOUS of which we taxpayers pay $14,400.

Do you understand that this is more than 300 dollars per week and many taxpaying civilians don't even have NET INCOME per week of that amount. I see this as complete INSANITY.

I expect you to see something wrong here unless the Naperville Sun also gives you $300 in health insurance coverage PER WEEK which I seriously doubt.

It looks to me you are kissing up to City Officials.

You know what I think is intimidating on your blog site...it is not ME.

What is intimidating to bloggers that may come on here is your RUBBER STAMPING of improprieties of City Hall. People are afraid to come on here and express an opinion that 16k for health insurance may be a bit much for fear of being attacked.

They are probably afraid you will allow City Officials and City Supporters to bash them relentessly if they dare speak up. You are allowing a gang mentality on your blog site that is scaring citizens away and hurting your blog site.

I know I tell the truth, Moderator Magee. You allow blogger after blogger to accuse me of lying and now you are letting them call me a liar for telling the truth. I would never lie intentionally as that is stupid and would ruin my credibility that I am trying to build to be an effective blogger who can rally supporters who one day may join our April 15 Tax Protest on the stairs of City Hall.

You allow your bloggers to accuse me of repeating myself when I am constantly introdcing new information. Today, for example I researched the employee benefits and discussed them. I watched the City Council meeting and exposed how none of our City Officials had the spine or backbone to demand greater than 10% participation in escalating benefit costs except with lip service that was for public consumption and was not implemented obviously.

I do expect you to perform the duty of WATCHDOG against the City of Naperville. I expect you to side with the citizens against government to help us make government more efficient and less wasteful. I want you to be like the Sun-Times reporters who expose the pension system for its UNFAIRNESS!

How could you be proud of the City of Naperville with a $14.1 million operating budget deficit, $20.5 million in stock market losses, and a $126.2 accrued actuarial pension liability deficit?
These are shameful numbers from FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE City Officials that need to be dealt with to avoid filing Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

Conveying my HONEST MESSAGE on your blog site has become very difficult because you have taken a position against me.

Speaking of REPEATING most of your bloggers do nothing but REPEAT ATTACK me over and over again about the same old issue. They repeat and repeat and repeat the same old story and then have the audacity to say I repeat. What they repeat is NONSENSE. What I repeat is FACTUAL and TRUTHFUL!

Ask yourself, what are these ATTACKERS contributing to the debate. Nothing. Ask yourself, what am I contributing to the debate.

I update my deficit numbers whenever new numbers come out. I report on what I see on the City Council Meetings.

When I suspect a blogger is lying such as the one who said he see 5 NPD ambulances each and every time he is there after midnight, I got out and research it. I am 100% positive he lied since he said EVERY TIME! And I have never seen it once despite being there 1000s of times in the last 21 years. He is in the defensive mode since he got caught in a BLATANT LIE! Making a fool of himself trying to defend his LIE!

You actually want to give this blogger the same benefit of the doubt you give me when you have to know he was BLATANTLY LYING.
You stick up for him by pretending he said he saw it once. You know what he said MODERATOR MAGEE. He said every time.

Why don't you take some time and visit the site some time after midnight and see if you will see 5 NFD ambulances at the same time there after MIDNIGHT so you can see which of your bloggers is telling the truth? It is a 10 minute ride from where you live and maybe you could see for yourself and tell bloggers it is HIGH TIME you stop accusing CIJ of lying when he is telling the truth. You seem to be enjoying all the attacks on me as you are making no effort to stop them.

Obviously, I have no interest in attacks on me or attacking anyone on this blog site. My only cause and agenda is to hold my city officials responsible for their wasteful ways.

Why would I want to attack all these Anonymous people who attack me?
What can I accomplish attacking an Anonymous Handle. You can not even damage the credibility of an Anonymous since they don't have a HANDLE that holds them accountable.

You won't even take the small measure of asking your bloggers to choose handles. Yet, you are annoyed if I use some bold and blue to make my posts look nicer and much easier to read.

Please think about some of the things I am saying. I bet I would have many more supporters if you were not siding with the City Bashers and making it kind of cool to attack CIJ.

I think deep inside you know I mean what I say. I think you know I am here to promote a cause and not become entangled in attacks and counterattacks. I think you know who starts the attacks first. I think you know they are trying to bury my MESSAGES with attacks.

Even declared Napergatian Kevin can not see through all the thick smoke and actually thinks I start some of these attacks on fellow bloggers which I don't.

I simply have strong opinions. I see the other side. I feel for the family who has to foreclose because REAL ESTATE TAXES keep getting higher. Let us not forget 2 years ago we were hit with an 11.3% tax increase. It may have not affected people at the time when everything was booming but now that they have taken pay-cuts and lost jobs this 11.3% increase in 2007 suddenly looms large. And when bloggers say what is $40 more, they forget the school may want $200 dollars more, the Park District may want $20 dollars more, the County may want $30 dollars more, the forest preserve may want $20 dollars more, the Dupage Airport may want 30 dollars more, the township may want 15 dollars more and it really all adds up to an UNAFFORDABLE real estate tax bill.

Every component counts and that is why former Editor/Publisher/Moderator called City Officials' behavior in raising taxes outrageous, irresponsible and reprehensible.

Please explain why you and the FORMER MODERATOR have such a different opinion on taxes in Naperville. I would like to hear your viewpoint.

Thank you,

CIJ


So our famous CIJ says:

Does this policy have any deductibles? My guess is NO!

Does it have any co-pays for doctors visits? My guess is NO!
*****************************************************************

The policy has deductibles and it has co-pays. It has an HMO and PPO option, it has single, single plus one and family options, it's got it all CIJ. Once again you don't know what the heck you're ranting about. Always speculating and hating. How do you compare retail workers and fast food workers to government workers, it's not even apples to orangers. It's apples to monkeys, it doesn't make sense. But then again, you don't make sense either.

How about getting a job instead of wasting time blogging here?

I also vote that BHO and [friends] create their own blog so those that care can follow him there.

Too bad we can't do a poll here.

To the anti-police/fire/military people out there....

If you don't like it vote. If all you can do is blab on this site then nothing will get done. I have read this blog for a couple of years now and it seems that you have several loudmouths that spend a great deal of time typing their thoughts-however I have not seen these people do anything else.

If you think that the police and fire departments are not earning their pay-go to their stations and tell them instead of hiding behind a blog. No backbones....

Smarty and common,

I appreciate our fire and police and respect them.

The question is, "how many cities and states are going to follow California into bankruptcy", or the country for that matter.

If the various governments can't get their acts together and control spending, bankruptcy courts will do it for them and the pensions will likely be one of the first areas that gets the ax.

Most of the Federal Ponzi schemes are being laid bare for what they are, Soc Sec, medicare and Medicaid will be cut drastically one way or another.

With 17% + under and un-employment, reduced salaries in the private sector and an economy that is still in a slow motion collapse moving towards hyper inflation, is it really the best time to increase local taxes and give pay raises to the govt workers funded by laying off other government workers?

I'm sure the union leaders really want to prove why they deserve their salaries by sticking it to everyone else during the depression, the union members should really think twice before following their leaders over the edge.

Government at every level has repeatedly promised what it can't deliver: something for nothing and something from nothing

The printing presses at the Federal Reserve continue to clack away as I write.

I have found and reviewed some health insurance numbers for the City of Naperville employees. In the year ending 2008, the average full-time employee, paying 10% of cost, paid $1075 on average from the year end total I was able to get my hands on....

If an employee paid 10% in 2008 and paid a total (rounded) of $1075 than the total cost of the per employee policy would have been $10750.00 (rounded). Further that means the city cost was $9675.

A weekly break down of costs would be... $20.67 employee and $186.05 for the city's part.

The numbers I was able to get my hands on were from employees that work outside of city hall. BUT the cost to insure a full-time employee, no matter what the job title is, should be the same in a group policy.

Now, under the new insurance program just passed by the city council, with employees paying more, the city cost should go down (not counting rate increases that all sectors see each year).

Hmmmmmm - CIJ - not interested in getting going with your own blog site? It was suggested, and seconded, I believe even endorsed by a 3rd, but not a word from you? That's odd since you ALWAYS have a word (more like 1,000). Guess you don't have the confidence in your message and popularity that you claim to have huh? That's a shame. It should have been win win - you get to speak your mind all you want, and those who you think support you could follow - you could grow it single handedly the way you think you grew this one at the Sun - AND the rest of us could have had our blog back as a place for reasonable people to discuss issues. Is it POSSIBLE that you actually do realize that reasonable people no longer have any interest in what you have to say - and you realize NO ONE would follow you and your own personal blog would be a bust?

I don’t think the city should be raising our taxes at a time like this, but I think there has to be a better way to balance the city’s budget than draconian cuts to the NFD and NPD. My personal opinion is that public safety should be the last thing the city cuts.

Now, that being said, this opinion isn’t due to the fact that my brother is a firefighter somewhere (not in Naperville and thus not affected by any of this discussion), but because I value safety highly. I sleep better at night knowing that firefighters are spending their nights away from their families to possibly help my own. I sleep better at night knowing that the NPD is keeping a watchful eye over our city 24/7. It’s really as simple as that.

The basic premise of cutting the budget should be based on a balanced measure of the effects on the city. Does cutting $500,000 from the NFD budget drastically decrease safety when cutting the same amount from the accounting department would barely be noticed (just an example, not stated as fact)? You know, instead of across the board cuts, put some thought into it and prioritize the cuts to be made.

T.B.

Just FYI for anyone who thinks there’s fraud going on in city hall –

The phone number for the US Attorney’s Office is (312) 353-5300 and the FBI’s main number is (312) 421-6700.

If you really think there’s some type of fraud going on (as opposed to just mismanagement) then I think it’s your duty to call the FBI and US Attorney’s Office, not just threaten to do so. That’s what a good citizen would do.

T.B.

So who wants to take a trip to the fallen officers memorial in Springfield and speak to the fallen officers children about how their dead police parents are not earning there money? anybody.....anybody....

After a stop at the Fallen Officers Memorial I would like to stop at the Fallen Fighters Memorial...

http://illinoispolicememorial.org/Default.aspx

http://www.state.il.us/osfm/Memorial/Overview.htm

My GOD bless them all and watch over the families they left behind.....

By Anonymous on November 5, 2009 7:37 PM

I stated.... "WELL, about two weeks ago I had to visit Edward ER several times do to my child being sick and having trouble breathing. Once I had to use a City of Naperville ambulance do to the level of breathing problems. All of my visits were AFTER midnight. Each night I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances. If they sleep all night in the firehouse as you stated, then why were there so many at the hospital???"


========================================================================================================================================

Fire Fighter, Fire Fighter Friend, and/or Fire Fighter Supporter,

This STATEMENT of yours really bothers me....especially because I know from 21 years of observation that it is UNTRUE and an EXTREME FABRICATION like I have never seen in my long life.

As you know, after lengthy discussions with a L-W Fire Fighter to gain knowledge, I made a suggestion that we close half the Fire Stations on week nights because it is slow. He informed me weekends are much busier due to drinking, driving and accidents resulting from the lethal mixture.

You obviously want FFs to be able continue to sleep and make $22.19 per hour regardless of the facts or whether they are needed. You don't care that we have a $14.1 million budget deficit.

You created this lie to sabotage my proposed solution for cuts in the FD. The FD should be a good sport and make cuts like all other City Depts. I was thinking of the least painful cuts both for us and for them.


########################################################################################################################################

Anyway on the way to LifeTimes Fitness last night, I pulled by the Emergency Room at 10:03 pm. I saw 1 yellow Lisle-Woodridge Ambulance and 1 Superior Ambulance. Again no Naperville Ambulance.

On the way back from LifeTime Fitness at 4:40am(yes I have my times right....it was just a marathon work-out) I pulled into Edward's again and saw 0 ambulances from any city including Naperville.

########################################################################################################################################

I go to Edwards and pass by Edward's daily and nightly many times. I will make a special effort to monitor it from midnight to 6am. I live very nearby to Edward's and I am a night owl as the Moderator knows, therefore this will be a very easy task for me. It will be fun PROVING a BIG LIE beyond a reasonable doubt.

I came up with a suggestion to save some money in the NFD as it is the belief of many that every department in the city should take measures to save and reduce expenses.

But a Big Lie was planted on this Sun Blog Site to lead people to believe the NFD is very busy after midnight and many bloggers are unfortunately falling for the lie "A MININUM of 5 NFD ambulances each and every time I go there after MIDNIGHT." This is not only a HUGE LIE but an unconsionable lie that attempts to ABUSE taxpayer money that could be SAVED. Speeds on empty roads are much faster than grid locked busy roads in the daytime so there will be no sacrifice in response time compared to daytime for those concerned about our insurance ratings. We can still have 5 ambulances on alert at night when almost everyone is sleeping compared to the 7 on alert in the daytime when everyone is almost awake. Not a HUGE SACRIFICE.

When that major disaster happens in the next 100 years, I am sure we have the home phone numbers of the 2 missing amubulance paramedic teams and they will not mind helping us. In Glen Ellyn fire fighters volunteer for no money. We are not asking for volunteerism. If we call the last 2 paramedic teams unexpectedly in the event of a disaster let us pay them DOUBLE TIME for inconveniencing them. TRIPLE TIME ONCE EVERY 100 YEARS WILL NOT KILL US. And everyone knows if the 5 we have at night are ever not enough, surrounding FDs will help us as we help them. So why all the fuss here. Are we going to have a disaster in every suburb at the same time....common folks be reasonable!!!

I will be making many visits to Edward's at various times betweem Midnight and 6am and will continue to document my observations. I will tell it as it is.

If I were to lie and see an NFD ambulance and not report it, a FF on this blog site will know and call me out. I will not lie and allow that to happen. That would be stupid and dumb.

I would like to encourage any blogger who passes by Edward's between midnight and 6am to also make an observation and report back honestly.

We have a fire fighter or fire fighter friend and his supporters really perpetuating a lie that we must not let stand and expose. It is a BIG LIE that will prevent taxpayers from achieving some necessary and substantial savings. It is a deception that will prevent the FD from contributing its fair share towards the City's $14.1 million operating budget deficit.

With the help of fellow bloggers we can expose this MONSTROUS LIE. I will make many more visits and document each time I visit with ambulance numbers if I can decipher them.

This is really a situation of I don't care if 100 of you want to go against me. Feel free. I will prove all 100 of you are lying if you want to support this individual. The Napergate Man proved thousands were lying. I should be able to prove hundreds are lying with relative ease.

Maybe at some point if I can not convince you this individual is lying, I will file my first FOIA against the NFD and demand to know how many patients were transported to Edward's between midnight and 6am Sunday through Thursday in the last year. I hate to burden them and waste taxpayer money but I will if it will save more taxpayer money in the long run.

I am 100% confident that there will be NO RECORDS supporting the FABRICATED and IMAGINED consistent sightings of a minimum of 5 NFD ambulances anytime someone visits after MIDNIGHT EXCEPT in possibly a very rare and unusual extraordinary situation.

I was there 21 times after MIDNIGHT and before 130am in the last 2 months and saw but a few ambulances most of which were not even NFD ambulances.

This BIG LIE is very disturbing since so many bloggers are buying it and possibly Council Members who read this blog site. If this BIG LIE is not shattered quickly, we the taxpayers will continue to get screwed believing our fire fighters are overloaded with work when in fact they are sleeping like sheep most weeknights between midnight and 6am and earning nearly $180 for sleeping.

I am asking for everyone who wants to get to the bottom of the truth to participate. Remember people who lie will get caught easily either way. Visits by these ambulances are all recorded by their respective departments. So if you say an ambulance was not there and it was there you will be busted.....or vice versa.

The person perpetuating this lie is probably perpetuating many other lies on this blog site. He is influencing others. We need to stop him in his tracks. Imagine he was bold enough to repeat his lie over and over again on this blog site and even defend it over and over again.

Please don't be roboted and support someone who blatantly lies for SELFISH REASONS. If you knowingly support somone who lies your are just as guilty as him for lying.

Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

PS. For those who keep track of my hijackings and domination of this blog site, my last post was nearly 17 hours ago. I have only been recently blogging on this thread with the exception of a humorous post in the library thread in a "response." There are 9 other threads on the Main Page of this Blog Site and hundreds if not thousands in the archives besides this one to blog on, for those who are constantly whining and crying about my "dominating presence." Let us face it the real problem is the CONTENT OF MY MESSAGE! And I am very sorry for that!

FOR PUBLICATION

By Chris Magee, moderator on November 5, 2009 11:07 PM
CIJ, listen to what you are saying here. You say I allow other bloggers to accuse you of lying, implying that's a terrible thing. Then you say that you accuse other bloggers of lying, and that's a virtuous thing because you are correct. Give me a break. You think you're correct, they think they're correct. Difference of opinion, not a lie.


========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

Whether there are a "minimum of 5 NFD ambulances at Edward's Emergency each and every time one observes AFTER MIDNIGHT" has nothing to do with an OPINION or a DIFFERENCE of OPINION.

It is about FACT and EVIDENCE and can be confirmed or refuted rather easily with minimum effort.

In discussing whether we can afford to shut down half the NFD stations between midnight and 6am, this becomes CRUCIAL DATA!

Bloggers should not be allowed to knowingly lie on your blog site. If you want your blog site to be respected and flourish when you see a lie, you must call whom is lying out. Unless, you want to run a sleazy blog site.

You can not continue to blame me if your blog site is not at its maximum potential. At some point you need to take responsiblity for these lies and attacks that you allow to nourish and floursih on the SUN BLOG SITE.....sometimes in my humble opinion knowingly, as I consider you a gentleman with intelligence and lots of common sense to go with it.

Thank you,

CIJ

Managed Dental Plan

November 3, 2009
Page 3 of 4
*PEPM – per employee per month
Staff recommends renewing with Delta Dental for the plan year 2010. Staff and employees are satisfied with our
current provider for dental benefits and Delta Dental, a local vendor.
Premium Equivalent Rates
The full premium equivalent rate for the current and renewal period and the 10% employee contribution rates for the renewal are as follows:

Current Premium
Equivalent Rate
Renewal Premium
Equivalent Rate
Employee
Contribution
Delta Dental
Single $24.64 $25.31 $2.53
Single + one $49.26 $50.60 $5.06
Family $87.89 $90.29 $9.03
Annual Premium $864,219 $887,773
% Change From Current 2.7%
$ Change From Current $23,555

========================================================================================================================================


http://www.naperville.il.us/ccpacket/cc20091103p.pdf

This is the link:


========================================================================================================================================

Here is more proof that many of the bloggers on here are spreading lies to protect the benefits of City Employees.

This is from the minutes of the last City Council Meeting.

As I said a little lip service was given to increasing the 10% premium of employees but they continued it for 2010 despite the deep recession and the fact we are 14.1 million in the hole.

All those who stated employee contributions for dental premiums were increased were simply deceiving and lying again.

Do those who lie think they will not be exposed?

Did they so soon forget the lessons the Napergate Man taught them about not lying and the consequences of lying?

The lip service given by 2 Council Men about increasing the 10% employee participation was purely for public consumption to mislead the taxpaying residents. All they had to do was make a proposal, put it to a vote and increase it. They chose not to increase it as they most likely are benefiting themselves by only pay 10%. Your CM are watching out for their self interests and not yours. Don't trust their LIPS or TONGUES!!!

Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

HERE IS A REAL SCHOCKER


Local Comparable Communities- Employee Contributions for Dental
Employee Contribution Summary for Dental Family
Comparable Communities Median Employee Contribution 60.4%
Naperville Employee Contribution 10%


--------------------------------------------------------------------


Basically other towns make employees contribute 60.4% for Dental Family Coverage. Naperville seems to be very proud that their employees only contribute 10% for Dental Family Coverage. This information is obtained from the Naperville Web Site. Not only do we insure the employee for ONlY 10% of the PREMIUM, but his ENTIRE family.

Yes, folks you are really subsidizing city employees for coverages you can never PERSONALLY afford. Even compared to other municipalities, Naperville is out of control. As I have been stating we have some FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE DRUNKEN SAILORS running this town.

In a quick review of the Medical Plan it appears deductibles for individuals increased from 250 to 300. For families from 400-600. Employee participation remained roughly 10%.

For the PPO Plan employee participation actually decreased from 10% to 9.7% the way I read it. I could possibly be wrong but I doubt it. (Next time my insurance broker comes over, I will have him explain these employee benefits a little better to me.?


For Family HMO Plans, the public sector nationwide contributes 38%. Naperville, proudly discloses that its employees only contribute 10% for Family HMO Plans. Now these fiscally irresponsible folks in City Hall think it is cool to only let their employees and THEMSELVES contribute 10%. They think it is COOL to give it to the taxpayers up the Waz.......! They think it is COOL that we subdize them until we have to FORECLOSE on our homes.

Yes, a single Naperville Employee had to agree to a 250 deductible instead of a 300 deductible or else the cost may have been $17 million instead of only $16 million for the City Health Plan. Almost everyone experiences these increased deductibles these days so there is no MAJOR SACRIFICE here.

I had to agree to a 3000 deductible instead of a 1750 deductible to keep my family premiums at a little over $10,000. No one helps me pay my premiums as I am self-employed.

Again, as I continue to research we will expose the lies some bloggers, who may be City Officials masquerading as civilians, are perpetuating on this blog site.

It is rare that you will have a true civilian wanting the government to give ROLLS ROYCE BENEFITS to city employees when they can not even afford Chevrolet Benefits if they are not part of the Clunker Group of 47 million civiliansn who can not afford any health insurance.

Enough of this INJUST SPENDING at taxpayer expense to BENEFIT SELFISHNESS on the behalf of City Officials, City Council Members and the POLICE and FIRE UNIONS.

Thank you,

CIJ

Wow, personally I have a tendency more to believe the person who said they saw 5 or more ambulances on a few occasions. There is no way I would ever believe CIJ's statement that the person is lying and that this never happens. I myself have seen more than 5 ambulances there on one occasion when I took my own child to the emergency room in the middle of the night. So I have personal experience that it does happen. And I am sure it has happened since. CIJ comes across as someone who will say anything to try and prove a point.

The funniest statement was the part where CIJ said calling someone a liar is libel. Isn't that exactly what CIJ is doing?

OMG

I guess the GREAT CIJ missed this one in his reporting....

The City of Naperville hired Clerestory Consultant Group to review the city operations and budget, IN ALL DEPARTMENTS. They are taking a comprehensive look at the operations of the city as a whole and will make a report on how the city can trim costs.

The Clerestory Consultant Group will be submiting a report later this month AFTER AN ANALYSIS OF ALL DATA AND INFORMATION.

The city hired an outside, consultant to review the city operations. WOW, does this sound like a "bunch of drucken sailors" with no interest in how the "system" is working???? It sounds to me like they are taking a long hard look at themselves and asked an outsider for help.

Once this report is submitted, and steps are taken to follow the recommendations of the Consultant Group, will CIJ finely shut "he/she's" mouth??? The consultant will recommend what and how much needs to be realigned. I think they have a much better, complete, and thorough idea of the city and its operations....

Bloggers,

Downtown was extremely busy tonight with almost every bar packed. The streets were streaming with people just like any busy summer day and more. The temperature was a beautiful 60 degrees tonight.

Missing were the 8 bike cops, 2 motorcycle cops and the cop on that ATV.

Only saw one marked vehicle driving around. Everything was very peaceful and pleasant.

So either the NPD is extremely negligent in security in the fall or extremely wasteful of taxpayer money in the summer. Which is it? Can you take a stab, Moderator Magee or anyone else???

The more I study and review the situation, I conclude that these summer resource cops are being given unnecessary work in order that they stay on the taxpayer pay-roll, benefit-roll and pension-roll when schools are closed.

They should at least be relieving cops who accumulate the 3 million in OT so we can knock out this OT and bring the operating deficit from $14.1 million to $11.1 million.

Thank you,

CIJ

I visited the Edward Emergency Compund at 11:20pm tonight. I found no amublances from any city or service. Zero.

I returned at 11:45pm and found one private Platinum Amubulance which is pretty much the size of a larger van just like Superior and mostly transports Nursing Care Patients back and forth due to old age illnesses.

========================================================================================================================================

Today is Friday which is suppose to be a busier night and I am not calling for any cuts on Friday or Saturday in case the numerous drunks downtown decide to drink and drive. I still want the NFD to save their lives even though they are making stupid decisions that are costing us taxpayers dearly.

I never said the possibility does not exist that 5 NFD Amublances could be there at one time. I stated that the person who stated he went there several nights in a row after midnight and saw a MINIMUM of 5 NPD ambulances EACH TIME blatantly lied. I am 100% sure he lied. And will continue to prove his LIE daily with my honest observations that the NFD can easily refute if they are UNTRUE. They certainly know where their ambulances are at all times. They keep great records unlike the finance and legal departments who lost track of the Napergate Trial costs.

And now we have this less than brilliant blogger most probably trying to pretend he is 2 different people with basically the same boloney story of taking my child to the emergency room and seeing the same thing...lol..

This individual(s) is doing a disservice to our Fine NFD Fire Fighters with his repeated and disgusting lies. Fire Fighters should speak up and disassociate themselves from this pathetic lying individual.

As I said it is DUMB to LIE. You will be caught. I will try to take another swing by Edward's Hosptial later tonight and continue documenting.

The truth will prevail. It always prevail.

As I said if a NFD ambulance is there at the specific times I am doing my spot checks, any fire fighter on this blog site will know and can disclose that if I am not truthful. It will never happen because I don't lie since it is a way of never establishing credibility which is very important to me.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Ps. Can you tell me Moderator, if this blogger who also takes his child after midnight and sees all these ambulances is the same one or do we have 2 UNIQUE story tellers? The latter appears to have chosen his words a little more carefully cleverly by saying on ONE OCCASION which is possible. But more than 5 when the NFD has only 7 is quite a bit and I have not seen it in 21 years despite passing by that place daily and nightly and being a very good observer. I can almost see the building from my home. No one will succeed with their lies on this ONE. No way!

Besides "anonymous" who else want so speak to some dead police officers families about why their dead spouses made too much and were not earning their keep? Maybe CIJ?

To Anonymous

Thanks for the insight on Clerestory Consultant Group. Let's hope they do the job. I am a bit cautious because they are more of an IT type group (former Bricker/Keane principals).

Also, as a consultant, you are very controlled by the client since they hire you. And these reviews are just that.

Will they look into why Naperville has more fire stations per capita than Chicago? Will they look at the "standards" (create by the industry, so I am not certain on objectivity) and recommend a lower, but acceptable level of service? I don't want to be a broken record, but the entire planning department needs to be downsized to the 1970 level because the City's growth has reverted back to that level. Do we need 8 policemen patrolling downtown Naperville? (For you old guys, its like Memorial Day in Lake Geneva).

Take a big step back and think about what you get for your City dollar.

Fire protection
Police protection (do special DUI patrols that recover 10% of the cost really matter)
Street maintenance
Water
Sewer
Electricity

Everyone of these departments had to cope with growth for the past 30 years, now they are done. Also, with greater technology, you can replace meter readers with computers (they don't get pensions or health insurance by the way). Departments could be reduced by almost one third. If extra people are needed say for a water main break, hire an outside contractor just for that project, not permanent employees.

None of these comments are designed to be mean spirited or anti employee. Just a reflection of reality. Companies have downsized significantly in the last ten years, that is why people with only high school educations and no skills might never work again. During the periods of prosperity that followed, tax revenues mushroomed. Governments, instead of following the treand of cutting costs due to technological gains, INCREASED costs (primarily employees). I know its Chicago, but they have two police officers making $130,000 per year (excluding pensions) deliver mail to each police station. Here is a job for a high school dropout that should pay $15,000 per year.

Let's see the report. My skepticism is that there is a lack of commitment to right the ship. Starting with Junior Krieger who should agree not only to a salary freeze, but at least ten furlough days (unpaid) as well.

Pensions and payroll do account for the lion’s share of the $50,600,000.000 in property taxes the city plans to collect. But the little things can add up to. Like why did the city approve spending over 2.5%, or $1,300,000.00, of those $50,600,000.00 dollars on the River Walk? $1,300,000.00 may not be a lot of money to some on the City Council but it looks like a big number to me! But as Councilman Grant Wehrli so rightly pointed out, since we have the permit from DuPage County then by all means let’s take advantage of that. After all we all know what a difficult time Naperville has in dealing with the county. Who knows when we may be able to get another permit from them. Could take years knowing how estranged we are. But the Riverwalk is very pretty so don’t get me wrong. But is it truly more of a “vital part of our community” than other city services that it needs $1,300,000.00 of our dollars? At a time when our economy is at its worse point since the Great Depression? But I’ve been here long enough to know I’m just talking in the wind. The City Council does whatever it wants to do because they can. No one is about to stop them. It does surprise me sometimes, however, just how arrogant and cruel that group can be. I know they have unlimited power and unlimited dollars and can do anything they want anytime they want but do they have to rub our noses in it at a time like this? City Council, couldn’t you try to at least fake having some kind of conscious and pretend like you have some respect for the citizens of Naperville?

By Common cents on November 7, 2009 10:29 AM
Besides "anonymous" who else want so speak to some dead police officers families about why their dead spouses made too much and were not earning their keep? Maybe CIJ?

========================================================================================================================================

Only 1 police officer ever died on duty during the 178 history of Naperville. He was involved on a high speed chase using a motorcycle.

I think it is stupid for any police dept. to endanger its own police officers by allowing them to ride high risk motorcycles.

I have condemned the additional purchase of 2 brand new motorcycles by the NPD 2 years ago. The spouses will have to look Police Chief David Dial straight in the eyes if anything happens to their loved ones while pursuing robbers on these motorcycles.

Being an NPD officer was one of the safest professions in the world before Chief Dial authorized the use of motorcycles. Except for that one unfortunate incident due to the gross negligence of using a motorcyle in a high sepeed chase in 1929, we would have a PERFECT RECORD and no need to tell any dead spouse anything.

Many more employees die in factories, road repairs and construction sites than police officers. Nearly 2 dozen construction workers died building City Center in Las Vegas in a year or two. What do we tell their families? They don't even receive a pension and I doubt their employer buys them life insurance like we buy our police officers life insurance. We treat our police officers so well that we have a $14.1 million operating deficit and a $126.2 million pension liability deficit. We, the taxpayers are even going to replace the $20.5 million they lost in the P and F Pension Funds while rolling the dice in the stock market. Do you want us to pull our kitchen sinks out and take them to the Taj Mahal Police Station?

We even look the other way while they cream us for 3 million in OT while their brothers in the FD also cream us for a substantial amount of OT.

We buy them top of the line bullet proof security vests at our expense since we value their lives and do not ever want their spouses living without them.

Cops and firemen have it made compared to most professions.

I don't know why you bring this nonsense into the discussion.

Life Insurance is how you deal with the unexpected death of a police officer....not giving every police officer a Big Fat Pension at age 52 so he can rock and roll in his rocking chair while 85 year old men continue to work to support him.

Thank you,
CIJ

Hey CIJ?
I've been trying t figure out why you're so upset that some other blogger said that they have seen multiple ambulances every time they went to Edward. I get the contentions, and I get your insistence that there must be lower taxes, but I can't understand why this particular contention seems to utterly important to you.
Could you help me understand?

CIJ wrote........."Nearly 2 dozen construction workers died building City Center in Las Vegas in a year or two. What do we tell their families? They don't even receive a pension and I doubt their employer buys them life insurance like we buy our police officers life insurance."

There you go CIJ, making things up as you go again to back your vendetta. ever consider a side gig as a ventriloquist?
Vegas is a big union town. Union construction workers have great pensions, health and life insurance, probably in line with the Police and Firefighters.

BTW, station 10 is coming along great. I for one am glad it is there, as response time to my neighborhood will be shortened significantly.

By Anonymous on November 7, 2009 5:13 PM
Hey CIJ?
I've been trying t figure out why you're so upset that some other blogger said that they have seen multiple ambulances every time they went to Edward. I get the contentions, and I get your insistence that there must be lower taxes, but I can't understand why this particular contention seems to utterly important to you.
Could you help me understand?


========================================================================================================================================

Simple, I will explain again but please don't accuse me of repeating myself.

I have learned through research, observation, and speaking to a Lisle-Woodridge Fire Fighter that our NFD is very slow on weeknights between midnight and 6am.

I live nearby to Edwards and have observed that compound for nearly 40 years and more so after buying a membership to their health club 21 years ago when it first opened.

I know very few amubulances come at night and the majority are not from the Naperville Fire Dept. The majority appear to be from a private ambulance service named Superior. Many other cities use Edwards extensively including the L-W Fire Dept.

Then we have a blogger who comes on and says, "Each and every time I go to Edward's after midnight I see a mininum of 5 NFD ambulances." Notice he used the words EACH AND EVERY TIME. He used the word AFTER MIDNIGHT. He used the words MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances. He was not even talking about all ambulances...only NFD ambulances.

I know all this is UNTRUTHFUL as I have not seen 5 NFD ambulances there in 40 years at one time. I am sure it happens once or twice a year or two or maybe 5 years.(more likely in DAYTIME and EARLY EVENING.) But not every night you go there after MIDNIGHT. I pass by there almost every night after MIDNIGHT and see one, two, or no ambulances and the majority of time none are NFD ambulances.

I am UPSET because his distortions and untruthfulness that may be believed here are not allowing residents and City Officials to consider closing half of the NFD FIRE STATIONS between midnight to 6am to save some money so we can avoid city employee lay-offs and balance the budget. Since we only have a total of 7 NFD ambulances, we will still have 5 ambulances after MIDNIGHT. Two stations do not have an ambulance and I am not sure if Station # 10 will have an ambulance.

There is very little activity at night. And when there are 5 open stations in Naperville after MIDNIGHT, paramedics should be able to get to victims as fast as the 9 stations in the daytime, soon to be 10, since the roads are empty and they can get to their destinations 3-4 times faster.

That is really it. I am trying to help reduce the budget deficit.

But FFs, FF Friends and FF Supporters are bashing me because they do not want to work 40 hours per week. They want to work 54 hours per week. They do not want their pensions reduced due to less pay due to less hours.

They do not care that we have a $126.2 million accrued actuarial pension liability deficit that gets worse in good economic years and devastated in bad economic years. They do not care that those they retained took a risk and lost about 10 million dollars playing risky stocks to enrich themselves in the stock market.(The NPD lost the other 10.5 million dollars.) They do not care that the Naperville Taxpayers including Moderator Magee have to chip in and replace this money.

The don't care they contributed to the $14.1 million operating budget deficit. They want others to burden it while they are exempt. Because they say something one day may happen in the next 200 years and they want 200 plus FFs working around the clock even when less may suffice such as after MIDNIGHT till 6am.

OK, sorry to repeat myself, but you asked a direct question.

I assume you are new here to be asking this question I have answered over and over again. Maybe we do need to be patient and repeat ourselves since it appears new residents are joing us on this blog site every day and need to be brought up to speed.

Thank you,

CIJ

Yawn, did someone say something. Ah, wheres my pension check again, oh there it is thanks CSI..

I guess, if you must repeat yourself, so do I.....

Please note the following that was said.....

"Once I had to use a City of Naperville ambulance do to the level of breathing problems. All of my visits (never said how many visits) were AFTER midnight. Each night (again, never said how many nights) I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances."

Please note what was NOT said.....

"Notice he used the words EACH AND EVERY TIME."

What Chris said....

"CIJ, I'm really not interested in the number of ambulances at the hospital at any given time like you are. Just because someone sees five ambulances one day and you see none the next day doesn't mean either of you are lying. Sometimes I see four cops on the way home from work and other times I don't see any."

What I said.....

Thank you chris.... Your point is well taken, by most of us. I truely believe this is the case. I believe that call volumes change day to day. I don't believe that one can predict the future, just like I don't believe anyone can predict when and were the fire department will be needed.

I stated what I viewed, when I viewed it, and nothing more. I did not state what nights, I did not state how many nights, just that I viewed them on the nights I was there.

AGAIN......
"I did not state how many nights, just that I viewed them on the nights I was there." (chris was sent photos of 9 ambulances at edward).

You stated....
I know all this is UNTRUTHFUL as I have not seen 5 NFD ambulances there in 40 years at one time.

A quote for Chris....
By Chris Magee, moderator on November 4, 2009 4:04 PM
I can confirm that the ambulances are shown as anonymous described in the photos he sent me. I'm staying out of it otherwise.
(chris asked to be kept out of this.... so I have not gone past Edward. I am giving chris the respect of honoring his request, you should do the same.)

I did not question your "story" about seeing 17 cops one night. I have never seen 17 cops downtown, in one place, in one night. Just because you "say" you viewed this, does not mean that I need to believe you. BUT, you have not EVER had me call you ANY names. You will never read me calling anyone names. This is not an adult way to present oneself in any print media.

I viewed what I viewed.... You viewed what you viewed.... NOW MOVE ON. I and others are BORED by this line. Please respect what chris wrote... I will and so should you....

By Chris Magee, moderator on November 7, 2009 11:24 AM
I'd like everyone to stop calling other people liars and saying they're lying. You can just say you disagree with them without being so confrontational. I've said this before.

Fire Fighters, Fire Fighter Friends, Fire Fighter Supporters and/or Anonymous 007,

No one is making things up but you folks.


========================================================================================================================================

I visited the Emergency Compound at Edwards at 8:19pm tonight. I saw one Platinum Ambulance that is used to transport elderly patients from nursing homes. No NFD ambulances. Not ONE,.

I returned at 8:53 pm. I saw no ambulances from any town. Again 0 ambulances from the City of Naperville.


========================================================================================================================================

I woke up late today since the stock market is closed so I should be able to do more checks after midnight.

You folks think that if 100 of you say I am lying bloggers and residents will believe you. They will never believe you. If you don't retract this false statement made repeatedly on this blog site, you will have no credibility or reputation left when I am done exposing you folks.

Residents will soon start visiting the Edward Compound to see who is telling the truth. They will be curious to see a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances and 2 L-W ambulances every time they go there. You would think there would be more ambulances in the day time and early evening hours than I am observing.

I am not going to doubt for now the incident of 9 ambulances at one time one afternoon because anything is possible at ONE TIME even though I don't trust the source. But I will only say that in 40 years of observing I have never ever seen 9 ambulances there at one time. The most I ever recall in one time is 4 and that was because there was a multi-car accident that was very very serious.

But to come on here and say every time you visit the Emergency Area after MIDNIGHT, you see a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances is an OUTRIGHT FABRICATION.

Since the Moderator feels this is an OPINION and not a FABRICATION, I wish he would take a few visits out there and see if he ever sees a MINIMUM 5 NFD ambulances at one time after MIDNIGHT....let alone each and every time!

I sincerely believe he will conclude that this is not an OPINION but an OUTRIGHT FABRICATION.

Thank you,

CIJ

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Bloggers that fabricate to this level once they are uncovered should be banned from this BLOG SITE. Unless you folks want to run a sleazy blog site with NO CREDIBILITY and then turn around and blame me for why it is sleazy.

If the Moderator wants to run a blog site with increasing viewers, he must do what he can to prevent bloggers from lying and deceiving on this blog site.

Again, the fact that the NFD web site says only 5330 patients are transferred to Edward's per year makes the sightings of a minimum of 5 NFD ambulances each and any time you visit after MIDNIGHT an UTTER IMPOSSIBLITY....a STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY!

This is Math 101 and I would hope most bloggers have that much mathematical and statistical abilities. But honestly sometimes I wonder since not one person is siding with me when I tell the truth and can document it....not even MODERATOR MAGEE.

Common,

Have you rehearsed your speech so you can explain to them why the bankruptcy courts nullified their pensions and health care plans because the City, then the State became insolvent after all the profitable employers left and took their highly paid employees with them, just like the giant sucking sound in California?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By Common cents on November 6, 2009 10:48 AM

So who wants to take a trip to the fallen officers memorial in Springfield and speak to the fallen officers children about how their dead police parents are not earning there money? anybody.....anybody....

According to the NFD website
http://www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_content.aspx?id=378

Activity Breakdown - 2008
Total Emergency Responses 9,559
Total Fire Responses 3,116
Total Ambulance Responses 6,443
Structure Fires 102
Fire Loss $3,096,205
Fire Related Deaths 0
Patients Treated 7,448
Patients Transported 5,330

I honestly could care less about how many ambulances are at Edward at one time. That being said:
6443 ambulance responses / 365 days a year = 17.65 responses per day
7448 patients treated / 365 days = 20.4 patients per day
Now we all realize that sometimes that means less on certain days, and by the same token that means more on other days. Some of those people will be transported to the hospital, some won't. And in a town the size of Naperville, there is a lot of ground to be covered by the resources available.

Regardless, if I or any of my family are in an accident, I sure would hope to be treated by a fresh paramedic, not one that has gone on a few emergencies already that day and treated 4 or 5 patients in emergency situations. I want someone well rested, fit, alert, and not overly stressed out by being overtaxed on their job on that day. CIJ is welcome to take their own personal risks with their family's safety and their property. I want my family and home taken care of by the best resources available and as quickly as possible in the case of an emergency. (And yes I have great insurance but insurance can not replace photos, family heirlooms, and the individuals in my family.)

There is no one in my family who works for the fire department or any other government agency that receives pensions. So don't try to attribute any comments I make to that sort of conspiracy.

Um, CIJ, I don't know how to break this to you, but NO ONE CARES! Has ANYONE here expressed ANY interest in what you say or think about this, or anything else for that matter? AGAIN, if you feel the need to express your views over and over and over again - start your OWN BLOG site! ALL your fans will certainly follow you, and the rest of us can actually have intelligent discussions without having to trip over your paranoid rantings.

By Anonymous on November 7, 2009 8:20 PM
I guess, if you must repeat yourself, so do I.....

Please note the following that was said.....

"Once I had to use a City of Naperville ambulance do to the level of breathing problems. All of my visits (never said how many visits) were AFTER midnight. Each night (again, never said how many nights) I observed a minimum of 5 Naperville ambulances in the hospital emergency entrance garage and two Lisle-Woodridge Ambulances."

Please note what was NOT said.....

"Notice he used the words EACH AND EVERY TIME."

========================================================================================================================================

When you say all of your VISITS each NIGHT, you are saying EACH and EVERY night you were there. Please explain to him, Moderator Magee, this is the same exact thing.

Why are you trying to play the semantics game that John Q. Public enjoys playing? Where did his dicing, slicing, chopping ever get him....NOWHERE!

You will also get nowhere. Why don't you be a man and apologize for your MISINFORMATION. Do you think the Fire Fighters are proud of someone who comes here and tells fairy tales on their behalf? Personally, I think they are ashamed of you....hopefully you are not one of them attempting to speak on their behalf without authorization. That is cause for TERMINATION if you are not the appointed SPOKESPERSON for the department. That is why institutions have SPOKESPERSONS so people like you don't run your tongue and lips uncontrollably to spread FABRICATIONS...and then to try to get out of them by MINCING your words.....JQP style! It never works...so give it up, buddy. Come clean, please!

Any FF can easily come on here and tell us how many times in one year they take patients to Edward's between midnight and 6am. I suppose they would rather not as it would confirm what I am saying.

Who does not like to get paid $180 a night for sleeping most weeknights with maybe no interruptions a night or possibly an average of one in worse case scenarios between midnight and 6am on WEEKNIGHTS. I emphasize WEEKNIGHTS!

That is what happens at the L-W Fire Department. I see no reason why the NFD would be drastically different on week nights. Woodridge has a very large nightclub district at its Seven Bridges Life Style Plaza that rivals our downtown.....almost!

I am not calling for weekend closures as we do have a very busy NIGHTCLUB DISCTRICT and anything can happens with drunks driving even though more and more people are taking cabs. We subsidized this downtown to make it a nightclub sin district so we have to take responsibility for it....unfortunately at TAXPAYER EXPENSE since it is HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED.

As far as cops downtown, for Heaven's Sake the whole world knows about the 8 resource school police officers who are assigned to the downtown in addition to the regular beat officers during the summer. Anyone knows that officers from other beats like to swing buy once in a while and take a glimpse of the beaufiful view and well dressed partiers.

And personally, I think the officers from other beats are asked by the hierarchy to come to the downtown between 130am to 215am especially on weekends to allow for an orderly exit of the bars.

While to some extent it makes sense, it does not make sense when ONE LONE ROBBER can hold up 2 gas stations and get away despite frantic calls for help. If an OFFICER was in that BEAT there is no way he could have held up the second gas station 4 blocks north of the first one on Washington St.....unless the police officer did not want to confront the lone robber and engage him in a gun battle. Hopefully, that was not the case as we pay our police officers handsomely to take on this risk.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. And keep in mind I repeatedly said I see 10-12 cops on that one intersection in the summer and only saw 17 and a canine dog the ONE NIGHT the 2 gas stations were robbed. I recall counting them and the lone canine dog 3 times as I was in DISBELIEF. The NPD never denied my observation. There are cameras focused on the downtown so if I were lying they would have called me out and destroyed CIJ once and for all. If they lied about my honest observations, I could subpoena the video recordings of downtown through an FOIA assuming they don't lose them like they lost the Napergate Trial record costs!

I have repeatedly observed and noted with happiness that only a few cops partol the downtown from fall to spring even though it is just as busy on weekends as it is in the summer. Go downtown Naperville tonight and see how busy it is. It is a beautiful night to go downtown(62 degrees F) and I intend to go and have a non-alcoholic beer and do some people watching instead of police watching....lol..!

It is a lot fun. I can understand why the cops would rather be there than helping eliminate all the OT the police department has that is costing us TAXPAYERS $3,000,000 dollars ANNUALLY after a 5% reduction by order of the city council from $3,150,000 the prior year.

1st CIJ wrote.........PS. Bloggers that fabricate to this level once they are uncovered should be banned from this BLOG SITE. Unless you folks want to run a sleazy blog site with NO CREDIBILITY and then turn around and blame me for why it is sleazy.

Now that is funny coming from one who made up/lied about the construction workers in Vegas not getting pensions and or life insurance, not to mention the biggest lie of all, your alleged fabricated army of napergatians that you used to bully anyone of a differing opinion t5hat turned out to be just you. Be careful; what you wish for CIJ. If Chris were to heed your advice, you would be the first to be gone.

Then this jem.....
Why don't you be a man and apologize for your MISINFORMATION.

That surely would be a nice gesture. Why don't you go first CIJ?

This comes from By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 7, 2009 11:49 PM:

PS. And keep in mind I repeatedly said I see 10-12 cops on that one intersection in the summer and only saw 17 and a canine dog the ONE NIGHT the 2 gas stations were robbed. I recall counting them and the lone canine dog 3 times as I was in DISBELIEF. The NPD never denied my observation. There are cameras focused on the downtown so if I were lying they would have called me out and destroyed CIJ once and for all. If they lied about my honest observations, I could subpoena the video recordings of downtown through an FOIA assuming they don't lose them like they lost the Napergate Trial record costs!


You always make claims to have a spectacular memory and I will give you some credit for an above average ability, however, the danger here is that you take the details of your recollections and spin them to fit your stance on an issue. Then when someone calls you on it, you say that they are just "slicing and dicing" in an effort to destroy their credibility and try to hang on to your own.

You are claiming here that you observed the 17 officers on the corner on the SAME NIGHT that the gas stations were robbed. THAT is one of your re-spins. Yes, you claimed that you observed the 17 officers one evening, yes the gas stations were robbed, but NOT on the same night. Now you are saying it was that one night. Is this another convenient fabrication in your own mind?

In terms of the cameras, your memory is not that good there either- The cameras were not in place at the time the gas stations were robbed, nor on the night you observed 17 officers on the corner.

Chris Magee posted the topic of adding the cameras on August 26, 2009:

....In addition, a public safety camera pod will be placed at the intersection of Washington and Chicago. The camera pod consists of five fixed cameras and one movable camera.

Call it slicing and dicing, I call it setting the record straight. They did not occur on the same night and the cameras were not in place at the time. So you can either stand corrected, go off on one of your diatribes, or simply not respond to me (as has happened in the past when I have called you out on other inaccuracies). What I will not be expecting is the recognition that you have a history of spinning details.


By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 7, 2009 11:49 PM

"Do you think the Fire Fighters are proud of someone who comes here and tells fairy tales on their behalf? Personally, I think they are ashamed of you....hopefully you are not one of them attempting to speak on their behalf without authorization. That is cause for TERMINATION if you are not the appointed SPOKESPERSON for the department. That is why institutions have SPOKESPERSONS so people like you don't run your tongue and lips uncontrollably to spread FABRICATIONS."

I guess this means that we need to file a complaint with Lisle Woodridge about your L-W Firefighter friend. Is he an appointed spokesperson?? Is your L-W friend speaking with authorization??? Does he know that he is speaking to the great CIJ and everything he says will be repeated (in one form or another)?? I think NOT....

NEXT..... Move on.... This line is BORING..

Is it really an internet discussion blog when it is just 2 or 3 people talking amongst themselves? Sounds more like a private conversation.

Exhausted wrote:

    Um, CIJ, I don't know how to break this to you, but NO ONE CARES! Has ANYONE here expressed ANY interest in what you say or think about this, or anything else for that matter?

I, for one, do care what CIJ has to say. As do many other bloggers who are regular posters. I am not particularly enamored of some of the long rambling posts and he said/she said arguments. Let me tell what what does interest me:

  • The City of Naperville was paying for health plans with no copay. Now there is a copay but still only 10% cost to the employee for the plan, be it individual or family. This is still far from both the comparable municipal and private sector standard. However, the comparison tables do not show how many of these employers offer these plans, but only gives information about employers who do offer these plans. There is a serious disconnect between Naperville employee health benefits and those actually experienced by the general public. A $300 deductible seems pretty low. There does not seem to be deductible information for the non-municipal comparison.
  • Since retirees can COBRA into (nice verb) the health plan, the health plan ends up costing more to the taxpayer. Why? you ask. Doesn't the law say the retiree must pay their own premium? Sure. If the retired employees were not part of the plan the average premium would be much lower and we, the taxpayer, would not have to pay as much for the present employees. Could the city get comparable plans --same copay, same deductible, same medication coverage - but have 2 different group numbers, one for active employees and one for retirees so we stop subsidizing the retirees health coverage. I'll recheck the laws, but it may be possible.
  • A dental plan with 10% employee contribution is so out of line (insert orthodontic joke here), I have no other words.
  • The state law which allows FD and PD employees to pay (approx) 10% of their pay into pension while we, the taxpayer must match with 20%+ and we carry the entire burden of any market failure is downright scary.
  • A program that people actually use -- the library -- essentially has its budget slashed to make up for the pension deficits.
  • Police coverage seemingly needed to protect the downtown business district. I would be interested to see how many arrests are made on non-residents doing things badly and how many of those are related to downtown business (or Rt 59 business) activity. Do we need to up the fines for transgressions within city limits?

e^(i*pi)

CIJ said:
"This is Math 101 and I would hope most bloggers have that much mathematical and statistical abilities. But honestly sometimes I wonder since not one person is siding with me when I tell the truth and can document it....not even MODERATOR MAGEE."
________________________________________________________________

I believe there are several reasons other bloggers are not standing behind CIJ on her points, but the two main reasons seem to be:

1. Other bloggers have differing points of view and/or concerns.

2. CIJ's approach is so ascerbic and juvenile, others do not care to join in.

Not to mention the posts are so long, repetitve, and messy.

I made a visit to Edward's Emergeny at 1:49am last night. Not one ambulance from any municipality, Superior or Platinum.

I made a second visit at 2:15am. Not one ambulance from any muncipality, Superior or Platinum. Not ONE SINGLE ambulance and it was a Saturday late evening when the drunks are out in large numbers.


========================================================================================================================================

I am extremely puzzled how 2 Fire Fighter Friends can take their sons there any time after MIDNIGHT and always find a MINIMUM of 5 NFD Ambulances. Not from all towns but just from Naperville.

Sadly, they are trying to rally our Moderator to their support. I don't think our Moderator is going to stay on the TITANIC while it is sinking. He is just a little too brilliant for that.

As I said I live nearby and I am a night owl. Making frequent visits to Edward's is no burden to me.

I am still trying to see one NFD ambulance after nearly 10 visits and some bloggers who pretend to be CREDIBLE say they see 5 NFD AMBULANCES each time they go there after MIDNIGHT. I am sorry I left out the MINIMUM which means they could see 6 or 7 sometimes since we do have 7 NFD ambulances.

I am surprised not ONE BLOGGER is willing to condemn the Fire Fighter Friends for their fabricated distortions. I am surprised not ONE BLOGGER is willing to get off his keyboard and help me make some nightly spot checks.

I think what we are seeing on this blog site is what I always thought. Not individuals trying to discover the truth, but individuals who are benefiting immensely from high taxation and trying to COVER-UP the TRUTH.

Please don't let these folks take you down the tubes with them, Moderator Magee. I am coming up with factual observations that can be proven wrong by the NFD if I am lying or deceiving. I would never be stupid enough to do either. I know that probably many fire fighters are reading your blog site and IF I ever lied they are waiting in ambush to crucify me. Therefore I will never lie.

But no one is waiting in ambush to crucify those who are deceiving by stating a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances can be seen at Edward's Emergency if you take your son or daughter after midnight to this facility.

My observation indicates that after midnight you will see 0-2 ambulances and there is a good chance none are from Naperville.

There is a great chance as my Lisle-Woodridge FF hinted to me that NFD FFs are getting very good nights of sleep especially on weeknights. I guess he is probably right and they may even be getting a good night of sleep on weekends sometimes.


Thank you,
CIJ

Anonymous....

Once again you are missing the point. You say police and firemen are not earning their pay. So instead of blogging about it-get your message out by protesting at the fallen officers memorial in springfield. You obviously feel very strongly about police and firemen being overpaid so go tell the spouses of our killed fallen heros about how you think they were not earning their keep.

It is the same 4-5 people complaining about this for years-it is boring-try something else other than blogging. The only place I hear about the complaining is on this site.

CIJ,
thanks for answering my question about why the multiple ambulance situation bothers you so much. You didn't have to repeat all of the information, since I have been following things.
But...
I still don't quite get the level of your upset with this one. I know, you want to do anything that will lower your taxes. Hopefully anything that will lower everyone's taxes, though you never quite mention that. Don't you see that you've taken on the wrong aspect of the city to go on about, though? Sure, a lot of departments can be cut to a reasonable degree, but I just don't see that anything like a majority of the citizens of this city are going to even consider cutting what are often referred to as essential services.

Personally I think that you're absolutely barking up the wrong tree on this one, and doing your self a significant disservice. I suspect you'll see this as an attack, but don't. I don't pretend to understand many of your points, since they seem rather unique and are often designed to offend and pick fights with others on this site, and sometimes I think that is your real agenda, but going after public safety activities is almost always going to be unpopular and counterproductive.

Is that really your intention, then? To pick the controversial and unpopular items that touch on your agenda and push and push on those to keep controversy brewing and to keep people talking about you and your ideas?

Again, the fact that the NFD web site says only 5330 patients are transferred to Edward's per year makes the sightings of a minimum of 5 NFD ambulances each and any time you visit after MIDNIGHT an UTTER IMPOSSIBLITY....a STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY!


Bloggers that fabricate to this level once they are uncovered should be banned from this BLOG SITE. Unless you folks want to run a sleazy blog site with NO CREDIBILITY
________________________

Perhaps someone can help with this regarding ambulance service. Does Edward hospital ONLY allow patients brought in by the NFD or do they allow surrounding community or private ambulance services as well?

And as for bloggers being banned due to fabrication, weren't you the one found out to be 50-100 different bloggers all carrying on conversations with each other? - talk about NO Credibility!!

CIJ Stated:
"But no one is waiting in ambush to crucify those who are deceiving by stating a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances can be seen at Edward's Emergency if you take your son or daughter after midnight to this facility."

Do you not get it? Not one of us is saying that it occurs every single night after midnight. We are saying that is has occurred on the nights we have been there. For me that was once. For the other person it was a few times. Neither of us has been there every single night. But you seem to think that this never happens at all. We are saying it does and it has. And on those few occasion, what if there had not been enough ambulances for the emergencies that night? While you may be willing to put you and your families life at risk, others of us are not. Maybe the Naperville fire department should have a list of citizens who are willing to forfeit their chance at an ambulance in an emergency if it is needed elsewhere. You, CIJ, can put yourself and your family at the top of the list since you feel you can be a volunteer FF/paramedic and handle things fine on your own without professionals in those careers.

Personally, it seems to me that maybe your Lisle-Woodridge firefighter friend is a little jealous and wishes he were working for Naperville. Why else would he be so willing to bash another company of firefighters so freely? Firefighters usually support each other regardless of the company they work for.

"What is wrong with closing alternating FIRE STATIONS every other night which would not only be a 10% savings but a 20% savings since each FF would only have to work 40 hours per week instead of 54 hours per week. WE DON'T NEED 10 Fire Stations when everyone is sleeping and the roads are almost deserted especially on Sunday through Thurday. Since the roads are deserted, the existing FFs can reach their destinations 5 times faster. This is common sense. If they can get to their destinations 5 times faster one has to conclude we will even have better service than in the day time when the roads are backed up EVERYWHERE! If necessary, maybe we can even have some volunteer FFs to assist the PROs at night.

This would certainly eliminate the OT in the FD that use to be a touch lower than the POLICE OT which remains $3,000,000 annually. Have not checked it recently.

Don't give me this baloney about a minute counts. I aready explained if a minute counts let us have 30 fire stations on another thread. No one wants 30 Fire Stations at a cost of $2100 dollars per household because a minute may count once every 100 years. "

I love how discussions about taxes bring out all the experts. Thank goodness for people that know everything. You are right, protect a city of 120000 plus with five fire stations. Great idea, Chief. The truth is that the people of Naperville have chosen to be protected by excellent fire and police departments. I think those guys know what they are doing.

"A colleague of his committed suicide last week at age 44 when he lost his job in nearby Lisle, most probably due to the stress of the bills that await him despite being unemployed. Higher taxes stress residents in tough economic times. While the fire fighters are worried about saving this invisible child in a fire some time in the next 100 years, what about saving her visible Dad who just left an orphan behind."

A bit of a stretch. Actually, an entirely ignorant statement. Cut the Fire Department budget and there will be less suicides. Wow.

"Watch and see how they will come out like mosquitos out of everywhere to attempt to sting me. It never fails.

If you want this blog site to be something different and more serious, you don't have to POST their COMMENTS since they have been warned numerous times this is NOT about CIJ but about CCH which stands for "Corrupiton in City Hall."

Translation: Moderator, please delete any posts that in any way contradict what I am saying. I am so important that I should never be questioned.

"Since they are doing public service with major risk to limb and life for 12k a year why would they not be willing to do public service with minor risk to limb and life for 40k a year? Are millions in the armed forces not qualified to be Naperville Cops or FFs? Or are these jobs based on CRONYISM?"

No CRONYISM in FD or PD. They take competitive entry tests that allow for more points if you have military experience. Get your facts straight.

"You need a major catastrophe to have that many ambulances at Edwards's at one time. Ambulances will go to another hospital if they know there are 3-5 already at the hospital unloading seriously injured victims. Most Emergency Rooms can only handle so much at a time unless they have a RED ALERT and begin calling in doctors and nurses such as in a CATASTROPHE. I don't recall Edward's ever having to go to RED ALERT in nearly 40 years except during the massive Plainfield Tornado that killed 19 people."

This is absolute fabrication. Just amazing that you feel it is proper to include the words 'Investigative' and 'Journalist' in your name as you OBVIOUSLY DO NEITHER. And then you have the audacity to use phrases like 'Anyway, it is very irritating for me to see BLATANT LIES published here' while your posts are FULL OF THEM!!!

You several times in your posts refer to the FF and PD pensions as being 52 years old 75% salary. Again, and not suprisingly, wrong.

I could go on, as every one of your posts has inaccuracies in it, but I am done with you. And I hope everyone else is, too.


Yawn, Ah, I just woke up from a nap. Im going to go hit the weights and then just sit around all day with my millions... Wheres that silly pension check again. Oh, there it is... Whew, I thought CSI stole it :-0

By e^(i*pi) on November 8, 2009 8:38 AM
Exhausted wrote:

Um, CIJ, I don't know how to break this to you, but NO ONE CARES! Has ANYONE here expressed ANY interest in what you say or think about this, or anything else for that matter?

I, for one, do care what CIJ has to say. As do many other bloggers who are regular posters. I am not particularly enamored of some of the long rambling posts and he said/she said arguments. Let me tell what what does interest me:

========================================================================================================================================

Thank you very much for your complement and eloquent comments.

As far as long posts, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

One Anonymous Blogger is now attacking me because I have been stating that POs and FFs receive a 75% pension at age 52.

Of course I know if they start at 21 and work 30 years, it comes at age 51. I also know if they start at age 24 and work 30 years, it comes at age 54.

I have mentioned this zillions of times. But the minute I leave a detail out or attempt to simplify by stating pensions come at 52 after 30 years of employment based on 75% of the highest and final salary, they jump on me and even claim I don't respond after accusing me of DISTORTING...lol...!!!

Again, they claim I write too much but yet complain I don't respond to every detail.

Be assured that the reason the FOCUS is on ME, is my MESSAGE is very strong.....maybe even HURTFUL to those abusing our SYSTEM OF TAXATION for personal enrichment and entitlement. They put the focus on ME....not MYSELF.

I was using handles picked out of a rabbit's hat to keep the focus off me. They forced me to pick ONE HANDLE and live with ONE HANDLE and look at what happened.

Regardless of whether I use 50 handles or one handle, they do not want me to uncover IMPROPRIETIES and UNFAIRNESS at City Hall.

I see more and more people like you seeing through the smoke and it really encourages me to go on.

Please understand my long letters are to enclose enough detail to minimize attacks resulting from lack of detail as I cited in the example above.

These folks are trying to destroy me like they attempted to destroy the Napergate Man when he began his uncoverings of the Cover-Ups at City Hall that led to the 44 Napergate full page series of ads in the Naperville Sun of unbelievable revelations that the City of Naperville could never refute....not even in courts of law.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. All this nonsense and mentioning things from 3 years ago, is to take the focus off their ALLEGATIONS that each and every time they go to the Emergency Room after MIDNIGHT they see a mimimum of 5 NFD ambulances. Please, if you can, make a visit after midnight on weekdays, observe and report back to us. Thank you!

Anyone else wonder if CIJ's LWFPD friend is yet another imaginary character made up to back his case for doing away with 50% of the NFD? Just asking. :)

"Fourth, if we sound like we are trying to scare you some it’s because there
have been six unfortunate deaths already on this job and that is six too
many.(by June 8, 2008) We want the best workers on this job. We want you to go home
safely at the end of the shift."


========================================================================================================================================

http://www.cpwr.com/pdfs/Perini/d000887.pdf


========================================================================================================================================

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jun/08/unions-pressure-ross-spurred-citycenter-walkout/

========================================================================================================================================

I was told by construction workers on the site that there had been 23 deaths at City Center in Las Vegas since its inception when I was there a few months ago. I stayed at Planet Hollywood right across the street and talked to workers on break in the early morning hours.

Some iron workers who died had their names embedded in the steel as a sign of honor. I saw 2 such names from the street.

The above articles indicate as of June 8, 2008 there had already been 6 deaths. As these buildings got higher and higher deaths increased exponentially according to the employees on the site.

Some of the workers felt some deaths were being covered up and blamed on other issues and not attributed to the construction.

I report what I was told. I do not embellish. If the construction workers that I chatted with exaggerated when they told me 23 died so far, well than I was exaggerated too. (Sorry, if this does not sound perfect but I had to substitute a word.)

But since I now found evidence that 6 had died by June 8, 2008 or 17 months ago, I do not doubt that the number is now up to 23 and rising as construction continues unabated to this day.

There are many subcontractors working on this project besides contractors. I doubt they are geting BIG FAT PENSIONS.

What ever pensions they get, come from their own contributions and NOT taxpayer contributions. If they pay 9.45% in contributions, that is where their Pension is coming from, "IF" they get a pension. No private employer in this NATION would contribute nearly 25% as the City of Naperville does. They may contribute a per cent or two if they contribute and probably not in these rough economic times.

I am not a walking Encyclopedia. I do not know everything. But I do not lie when reporting.

So don't try to change the subject when you folks are cornered about an "ALLEGATION" regarding 5 NFD amubulances at Edward's Emergency every time you go there after MIDNIGHT to justify keeping 10 stations opened instead of 5 as I am proposing for the GRAVEYARD SHIFT ONLY. Sorry, I forgot to insert the word MINIMUM. That appears to be an OUTRAGEOUS AND OUTRIGHT UNSUBSTANTIATED ALLEGATION based on 10 visits taken in the last few days and documented.

I will make many more visits to prove statistically it is not only IMPROBABLE BUT IMPOSSIBLE what is being reported here by Fire Fighters, their friends and/or supporters.

It is not a good idea to DELIBERATELY MISLEAD. Most DISTORTIONS sooner or later surface. Writing a non-fiction novel using fictional characters to tell a true story is not distorting. Everything I said can be found in the Napergate ads. I consider them reliable because the Napergate Man proved his CREDIBILITY in the COURTS. In 3 Landmark Cases, the Napergate Man had 14 Judges and Justices from Appellate and Supreme Courts side with him. Naperville only had one in a 2-1 losing decision. The other decisions were 9-0 in the Illinois Supreme Court in the mid eighties and 3-0 in the Illinois Appellate Court in the mid nineties. The 2-1 decision was in the Federal 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in the late 90's uncovered by another blogger who does not want me to mention his name or give credit to him. He posted the link. It was not mentioned in the 44 Napergate ad Series. I suspect there was a GAG ORDER imposed on the Civil Rights Judgment so Napervillians will never know what was doled out....just like we don't know to this day what the 10 million 10 year Napergate Trials cost us exactly. And that does not include the mid-eighties case that reached the Illinois Supreme Court where the 9-0 verdict was rendered against our City Officials and Legal Dept.

Thank you,
CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Ps. The point I was trying to make was that there are jobs much riskier than being a FF or PO in Naperville. I was getting exhausted hearing of PO spouses crying when the last spouse that had to cry for a police officer was in 1929 or 80 years ago. Construction worker spouses at City Center are crying every month and not of the last century. Let us get serious folks about serious risk on a job and not use it to justify Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Pensions and Bigger and Fatter Benefits. End of Story! My credibility remains untarnished. Please don't change the subject and make it about Las Vegas. Did you ever hear the saying, "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."

CIJ, we all know YOU care what you have to say - point is - no one else who ever reads or comments here can stand the sound of your voice anymore. You know this obviously, otherwise you would start your own blog and let all those fans of yours follow.

Can we talk you into leaving CIJ?
You make this site a pretty awful place. how about joining in on a new with with Huber?
That would be something, don't you think?

CIJ wrote......"What ever pensions they get, come from their own contributions and NOT taxpayer contributions."

Actually, they come from a combination of employee and employer contributions (union dues). Indirectly though, taxpayers do fund the of the employers contribution, as those costs are included in price of any federal, state or municipal job.

CIJ wrote...."So don't try to change the subject when you folks are cornered about an "ALLEGATION" regarding 5 NFD amubulances

Don't include me in this group. I couldn't care less how many ambulances are at Edwards at any given moment. Just the fact that we as Naperville residents know that one is only minutes away when needed is enough for the majority to scoff at your plan of downsizing the FD to save a few dollars. Cutting Police and Fire services are one thing the majority of residents won't allow. If you want cheap taxes, may I suggest relocating to a rural area?

Typical CIJ exaggeration and hyperbole regarding the number of construction workers killed at City Center in Las Vegas.

Yes - six workers were killed between early 2006 and mid 2008. However, After the 6th fatality, the unions there shut down the project until increased safety measures and training were provided. Do you think for a moment that those same unions would have hesitated to shut things down again if there had been 17 more deaths. This is so typical of the fear mongering tactics the so called investigative journalist uses. Supposition, innuendo, unsubstantiated claims of inside knowledge, access to insiders who tell the so called IJ all the things no one else seems to ever know about or can corroborate.

So CIJ posts this supposition that at least 17 more have died at City center since June 2008 - based on this supposed conversation between the ever "vigilant" CIJ and some "workers" he just happened to meet in Las Vegas. Some how I just don't believe this - or anything else the CIJ has to say -

Yes I saw more than 5 ambulances at Edwards the time I was there. And by the way, CIJ, I do not have any personal friends or family members who are employees of ANY fire department or police department. So you can quit insinuating that that is the only reason I would say that I have seen those ambulances or that it is why I support the NFP and NPD. I support them because I want my family to be safe and have access to emergency services as quickly as possible if the need arises. I, like many other people in the area, am willing to pay for those services. Like I said before, please feel free to let the NFD know that you do not need their services since you claim your insurance will cover things if your house burns down. The rest of us would prefer to have them at our disposal if needed.

Imagine this happening in Naperville, if CIJ gets his wish:

http://www.rebeccaotto.com/news2005/news100605.htm

Don't pay your fire department fee, watch your house burn. Imagine how loud someone like CIJ would cry if this was him...

I did another spot check as I exited Edward's Health and Fitness Club at 7:45 pm tonight.

I saw a private Platinum Ambulance in the Emergency Bay Area. And I saw 2 private Superior Ambulances parked in the non-emergency area to the north designated only for ambulances...4 parking spots exist for these ambulances to park possibly while they wait for their less serious patients to be taken back home.

No NFD ambulances yet....but I am looking for them. I am sure one comes every 2 hours based on the data provided by the NFD and sooner or later I will be there to see and identify one.

But this saying a MINIMUM of 5 each and every time you go there after MIDNIGHT is really utter NONSENSE. I am not allowed to use the word LIE or FABRICATION so you will have to figure out what I mean by NONSENSE until the Moderator bans me from also using this word soon. He does not want me to checkmate CITY HALL. But I am determined to checkmate them as I am closing in on them day by day. Please join me in CHECKMATING City Hall.I would rather this be a 5 year battle than a 10 year battle as was the Napergate War.
I would rather have a shorter war so we can move forward with our lives.

I wonder if some towns use these private ambulance services as I am seeing more of them than municipal ambulances. I thought they were mostly used for transporting nursing care patients but I could be wrong.


========================================================================================================================================

For all those who are tired of me, leave this thread and go to another thread. Who is stopping you?

I am writing to City Officials, City Council Members and the public at large who reads this blog site.

All you are doing is attacking me while I provide evidence.

At what point Moderator Magee, are you going to realize that those who are attacking me instead of MY HONEST and WELL RESEARCHED MESSAGES are not contributing to the success of your blog site?

At what point are you going to stop being so BIASED against me?

I have borne the majority of your wrath. When will you level the playing field and be a good referee so I can CHECKMATE my opponents and finish them off once and for all? I know I can on a fair playing field.

My opponents honestly sound like whining and crying kindergarten children. I know I am stealing your words but I could have never realized you could turn out so prophetic.

As you see when they accuse me of fabricating deaths at City Center, I provide links. Instead of responding to my evidence that they brought on through questioning, they ignore the evidence and begin silly attacks.

The majority of your bloggers have no interest in the truth. They are interested in COVERING UP THE TRUTH.

My supporters come on here once and commend me. My anatagonists keep repeating and repeating and repeating the same old attacks against ME while ignoring MY MESSAGE. It almost seems ORCHESTRATED.

No one would be attacked like I am being attacked unless he or she or it had an incriminating message. Yes, taxpayer money is being abused...undoubtedly.

Thank you,

CIJ

I just went past edward hospital and saw nine ambulances there. Seven Naperville ambulances.

God bless our heros!

There is so much arguing and accusing here, and CIJ is saying everyone else is lying or fabricating. This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. NOW who is lying/fabricating/exagerating things on this blog site? Just scanning this topic along, the following comments in quotations were made by CIJ in the last 24 hours and she seems to be breaking her own rules:

1. "Sadly, they are trying to rally our Moderator to their support. I don't think our Moderator is going to stay on the TITANIC while it is sinking. He is just a little too brilliant for that."

The only one who is "rallying our Moderator to their support" is CIJ who blatantly brown-noses the Moderator in an attempt to get him to back him, hence the 'brilliant' comment. When the Moderator does not act accordingly, it is because others have gotten to him. Isn't it the Moderator's role to remain neutral, ensure bloggers are following site rules, and to facilitate dialog?

2. "I think what we are seeing on this blog site is what I always thought. Not individuals trying to discover the truth, but individuals who are benefiting immensely from high taxation and trying to COVER-UP the TRUTH. "

Wrong. Speaking for myself, who is not involved in corruption or cover-up attempts, this is a lie. CIJ isn't saying it is a possibility, she is stating it as if it were fact. Shall I sue?

3. " I know that probably many fire fighters are reading your blog site and IF I ever lied they are waiting in ambush to crucify me. "

Now, now. There are no firefighters waiting to ambush you, CIJ. Seems like a grave exxageration to me, if not a lie. Also sounds like a bit of paranoia and self-importance mixed in for good measure.

4. "I have mentioned this zillions of times. "

Really? 'Zillions' of times? Even you, CIJ, have not been long-winded enough to have reached that count. Please be more accurate if you expect to be percieved as credible.

5. "I was using handles picked out of a rabbit's hat to keep the focus off me. They forced me to pick ONE HANDLE and live with ONE HANDLE and look at what happened."

I doubt you actually used a rabbit's hat, my dear CIJ. Again, please stop with the exxagerations/fabrications/lies if you expect to be viewed as credible. Also, you were revealed by the Moderator to be using multiple handles to prop yourself and - in your eyes - gain credibility or popularity, you undermined yourself. Now you just come across as someone slightly off center who is seeking attention, be it good, bad, or indifferent. Well, my dear little CIJ, it looks like you've got it.


Finally, CIJ, you have a way of turning people against you with your tone and verbiage. I hope my examples above, along with my attempt to turn your tactic on you, will open your eyes. Calling people names because they do not agree with you is childish. You seem unable to have a civil debate, as you are quick to become defensive and lash out whenever anyone has an opposing viewpoint. For a supposed 'journalist' you don't seem able to separate facts from your own opinions, so you muddy the two and present them as truths.

Just because you bring up a topic that is important to you doesn't mean it has the same importance to others. Don't come on a blog site and expect others to drive by the hospital in the dead of the night to count ambulances just because you do so. Many people work full-time and sleep at night. Some people may not even care.

If you truly believe your information to be factual and want to further your crusade, why don't you take it to one of the real investigative reporters at one of the local news stations? Have you approached CBS, NBC, ABC, or WGN? You seem stuck on The Naperville Sun, and seem to want them to take your tidbits and run with it. If they won't, why not try elsewhere? Many here have suggested you start your own blogsite. You seem to think you have a following. Why not start a forum where YOU can moderated and others can join you in your efforts, if they so choose. There you could post whatever topics you want without fear of repeated reprimands for not following the rules. Just be sure to post a link here for those who may want to follow you. What do you say, CIJ? Others have asked you this question, but you have been uncharacteristically unresponsive.

By Common cents on November 8, 2009 10:29 PM
I just went past edward hospital and saw nine ambulances there. Seven Naperville ambulances.


========================================================================================================================================

Of course I know you are joking...others may not.

I just walked my dog there and saw no Ambulances period. Both parked Superior Ambulances had left....

You guys can make a mockery of what I consider a SERIOUS INVESTIGATION into a FALSE ALLEGATION.

But apparently, I have successfully CHECKMATED Fire Fighters, Fire Fighter Friends and/or Fire Fighter Supporters who painted a false pictures of Naperville Ambulances racing to Edward's as if it was Grand Central Station in N.Y.

========================================================================================================================================

All I was asking for is to close down half the Fire Stations between midnight and 6am to help elminate the $14.1 million deficit. Someone or something has to be done to eliminate it. That's it. I was only asking that ambulances during that time period be reduced from 7 to 5 for a 6 hour very slow period on weeknights to save a little taxpayer money that could be used to plug the deficit so we taxpayers don't have to come up with more money in these very trying times when hundreds if not thousands of residents are facing foreclosure or bankruptcy....and you all think this is a joke or laughing matter. Shame on you folks who are making a mockery out of a serious situation.


========================================================================================================================================

When Glen Ellyn had trouble with carbon monoxide in a public rink, many towns rushed with their ambulances to help out.

If we are ever caught short between Midnight and 6am, other towns will rush to help us as we will rush to help them which is standard protocol.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The NFD and NPD apparently like to waste money.

1. They want OT and more OT...both of them.

2. The POs want to sit as potted plants, 14 altogether in jury boxes, collecting OT for 75 dollar traffic tickets that no one protests.

3. The POs want to ride bikes downtown when they are not needed. Who would not want to be paid 30 bucks an hour to check out the pretty girls and muscular guys downtown?

4. FFs want to sleep and get paid $180 for sleeping. In Chicago they are so busy, they rarely sleep. I once saw the Chicago Fire Dept. #42 on I believe Division/Clark and Illinios across from UNDERGROUND LOUNGE get 4 calls in 2 hours between 3am and 5am.

5. Both POs and FFs want to work private events like PigFest and the Last Fling for OT pay. It would be nice if they would show some volunteerism at these Charity Events instead of charging us taxpayers OT for their services at a CHARITY. We certainly pay them enough. We are not asking for total volunteerism as in Glen Ellyn.

6. They gambled and lost $20.5 million dollars in the stock market and want us TAXPAYERS to replenish it in full while they refuse to volunteer at charity events....always demanding OT.

7. We have a $14.1 million operating budget deficit and they want all the other city departments including my favorite library, that allowed me to research the Napergate Man free of charge, to make up the deficit while they are exempted. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

8. They have a $126.2 million pension deficit and they want us to contribute 25% to their respective pension funds in matching pension contributions while they refuse to make compromises in wages.

I could go on....but I will spare you since you folks don't like long letters.

Thank you,

CIJ

e^(i*pi) I'm not sure where you got your info from, but city employees have always paid a co-pay and now it's increasing in Jan. and retirees have to pay for their insurance premiums too.

3. " I know that probably many fire fighters are reading your blog site and IF I ever lied they are waiting in ambush to crucify me. "


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I meant to say crucify my CREDIBILITY if i do not report the accurate flow of NFD ambulances to and from Edward's.

So no one is lying or exaggerating.

All you folks who want me to have my own Blog Site, why don't you scoot off this thread so I can use it as my Blog Site to communicate to City Leaders.

If you were not distressed by the seriousness of MY MESSAGE you would be on onr of the other 9 threads on the Main Page, 2 of which are OPEN TOPIC and allow you to discuss anything.

Thank you,

CIJ

CIJ - you just dont get it - many people dont like you, many people dont believe you, and many people look forward to opportunities to to remind the rest fo the readers when you look silly or make stupid comments. Sometimes the message is lost by the inteptitude of the messenger's delivery. You have become the Scott Huber of the blog - regardless of what you say, people just see you as a crazed and demented person not worth listening to.

Do you really want to get your message across? Then stop saying bad things about people, stop saying they have loose screws and burt bearings - alluding that they are stupid or unintelligent. Stop calling people liars, dont denigrate people when their viewpoints are not the same as yours. One nice thing about America is that we are allowed to have our own opinions - even if others dont agree with them. You dont like what others think or say? Just smile and shale your head and move on. Of course, Im pretty sure you wont take any of this to heart - and you will likely think of these comments as an attack. That is your option - but if you thought more about how to be an effective communicator and less about being "right" you might have a more successful path to getting people to see things from your perspective. Others have tried to reason with you in the past but to know avail. I figured Id give it one more try.

The unfortunate thing on this blog, in my opinion, is the few topics that CIJ participates in become a "CIJ vs the Others" topic. I am not saying that it's a good thing that CIJ gets blasted, it does seem to fuel his fire, the "blasting" does. I should not be here fueling his fire. Others probably should not be here fueling his fire. We do have a right to point out his ridiculous behavior, as CIJ blasts those that do not "follow" him and as he rewrites history. We have that right only until Chris can't read through another post relating to CIJ vs the Others.

If CIJs topics are the most visited here on this blog, I don't feel that makes them the most successful topics or makes him successful with his message. Far from it in fact—it seems to be more of a "grab your popcorn and a beverage and let's watch the fight" type of participation. I don't think that fabricating Napergate participants and storyline made this Sun blog successful back in the day, it simply made it outlandish fiction and CIJs continuing participation still seems to be much fiction. But, this type of trollish behavior happens all over on blogs of every sort. People fabricate and create personas that they feel enhance who they really are, whether successful or not? Things have come to a point here that CIJ must know he is not being paid attention to, other than having his posts picked apart, as many here think he has absolutely no credibility and has absolutely no desire to take real action upon his personal issues, while continuing to seem to have no desire to have real conversation with anyone. Many of CIJs writing and language styles lead me to believe that he came from another culture, and perhaps if he grew up elsewhere, he learned a more confrontational form of communication that was accepted as the norm wherever that may have been. I get that, but it does not translate well to a midwest suburban blog. We are what we are. Just a theory of mine, but you would think that if this is the case and CIJ really did want to converse with credibility about his issues, he would figure out how to assimilate into the debate in a more successful style with those he thinks he is debating with here. As it stands now, no one communicates with him other than to pick his awkward and outrageous behavior apart.

I am thinking also that a Scott Huber/CIJ partnership blog would be a fabulous idea. The two of them can protest and take on windmills together, perhaps move their protest site to City Hall.

By Anonymous on November 8, 2009 11:53 PM

e^(i*pi) I'm not sure where you got your info from, but city employees have always paid a co-pay and now it's increasing in Jan. and retirees have to pay for their insurance premiums too.

My info is from the city council sheets linked in my post. There may have been a 10% coinsurance payment instead of a fixed copay for the PPO plans. Then public sector comparison sheet shows a median copay of $0 for the present PPO plan. Maybe that is a typo -- the city is known to have multimillion dollar typos in their financial reports so a few dollars off would not surprise me. Or maybe union contracts have different copay coverage making the median copay across all copays equal to $0. Maybe it's a language issue.

If it is a 10% coinsurance (copay) then that is still well below national public standards and midwest public/private standards. The amount employees have to pitch in for insurance in the first place is also well below those same standards.

Regarding the retirees. What I wrote was correct. Please reread it. While they do have to pay for their own premiums, everyone is charged the same rate. Since retirees tend to be older and have more medical problems, they raise the average premium. That cost is not passed on to them. It is absorbed by all the younger healthier employees, for which the taxpayers pay 90% of the premium even for families. If retirees and workers were divided into two groups and insurance purchased, the workers would have a lower premium and the retirees would have a higher premium. We are subsidizing the retiree's premium, because they are paying the same premium as is being paid for, say, a healthy 30-year old male.

e^(i*pi)

CIJ: you cannot prove anything by going 1000 times to Edward and seeing fewer than 5 NFD ambulances. You can only say that you never saw 5. There should be hard data out there saying where each ambulance was at each point of every day. Ask for it and you'll have your answer.

Bloggers: If you want to bypass CIJ's ramblings use Ctrl-F, type in By with a space and you can jump from post to post with an occasional in post stoppage. If it says By CIJ, just click next.

One more quick comment on the retiree insurance coverage. I suspect they do not pay into the stop loss or administration components of the health insurance costs, so they are being subsidized there also.

CIJ- please read reread and rereread what Anonymous wrote at 1:01 AM.

e^(i*pi)

Sybil said: If you were not distressed by the seriousness of MY MESSAGE you would be on onr of the other 9 threads on the Main Page, 2 of which are OPEN TOPIC and allow you to discuss anything.

Oh, Sybil, CIJ, CSI, BHO, Ameena, and the host of others, all 50 of you that live inside of that individual, do you truly not get the idea that some people come to this blog site to find what nonsense you're spewing and to make sure you can't get away with your excesses and with your attempts to force your own twisted view of things on the readers here?
I get that you have a strong opinion on many of the things you blog about, though I personally believe that you probably don't care about your message, that this is all a way for you to get the attention you crave, and that if there was never another thread that touches on these sorts of issues, you'd simply choose another unusual position and begin to harp upon that for pages and pages. In some ways, it's really pretty sad, and tells us a lot more about you than I think you imagine.
I tend to agree with many of those who have posted above, it would be an amazing opportunity for you to create your very own site. Your legions of followers could follow you to it, you could write whatever you wanted and have it posted immediately, without waiting for the moderator to approve your posts, you could use all sorts of lovely formatting... and would that be great? Even color, sybil! Imagine the power of your message in bold, italicized RED! The powers that be would be brought to their knees by the colors of your world...
But you'd never, ever do that, would you? Because no matter how much you protest, this isn't about your message, and this isn't about the strange, out of mainstream ideas that you keep writing about and writing about with no support from others, this is entirely about your need for attention. Isn't it time that you took your message to a larger world? Think of the following that you would get, blogging on a much bigger site? Move to one of the main papers, start your own site, find a way to take your message global! The glory that waits for a citizen investigative journalist is just waiting for you out there, sybil, Go and take it! Why, you could even be in a story about the anonymous blogger that got his start here at this humble site, and went on to convince the world that he was right about everything! Oh, yes! Do it, you know you should!
Why... You could be the voice of your generation! Yes, take the leap, you'll get SO MUCH ATTENTION, that you won't even know what to do with it! Hurray!
Go! Go now, CIJ, and leverage the power of your really weird ideas!

(this message brought to you by someone with no connection to the city government, indeed no connection to any government, no pension and no family member waiting for or enjoying a pension. Just someone who has watched this once interesting blog site be essentially ruined by a single attention seeking blogger who has way, way to much time on her hands)

To supplement's -1's recent post.

1. For COBRA, the going rate has to be charged. And all employees of a company need to pay the same premium, there cannot be a differential based on age or health. (By the way, this is key to the health care debate, they are trying to force 25 year olds to buy regular insurance at the same price as 60 year old to create a subsidy.

2. Not only do taxpayers have to pay disproportionally for the fire and police pensions, they also have to pay for all of their mistakes in managing their pensions. The penion plans control who manage their funds, not the City. If they lose, the City's costs goes up, none of their contribution.

3. When you get down to it, a major portion of the budgets have been police and fire services. If you exempt these departments from cost control, you cannot control the budgets and taxes. They cannot be exempt. They were not complaining as the departments grew during the 2003 to 200 bubble. At a minimum, roll back costs to 2003.

It is no wonder that the last good City Manager (Ron Miller) escaped. There were pressures to waste money and he wanted no part. His new City is prospering (Aurora Colorado)--An all American City in 2008, something Naperville could not qualify for. His successors (Peter Burchard and Junior Krieger) have run the City into the ground. A really sad story (Chris, one for the Sun to feature!!!).

In her latest post, CIJ said:
"All you folks who want me to have my own Blog Site, why don't you scoot off this thread so I can use it as my Blog Site to communicate to City Leaders."

CIJ, this is a public blog site run by The Naperville Sun and Suburban Chicago News. You cannot tell people to leave because they don't agree with you. Many of the people reading and posting here have suggested you start your own blog site because you monopolize the topics. From the responses on this topic alone, your comments don't seem to command an interested or supportive audience. Speaking for myself, I would like to read and participate in more intelligent, civil discussions.

Again, if you want to rant ad nauseum about City Hall, why don't you start your own blog site and post links here like Scott Huber does? Then you can post to your heart's desire PLUS you could moderate and even censor as you see fit. That way, the Naperville Sun's Potluck section can go back to community members commenting and sharing views rather than one member with way too much time on her hands trying to monopolize this public blog site.


Thank you,

AA

This is for CIJ, since he likes Oakbrook so much:

Oak Brook, Illinois, Debates Library Funding Amid Budget Squeeze.
The Chicago Tribune (11/9, Smith) reports that a debate "over library funding has intensified in recent weeks after the laying off of five librarians to save costs and as the village drafts next year's budget. The Oak Brook library also has become a lightning rod because of how it is funded." Oak Brook "does not have a property tax, which most communities use to pay for libraries, so the village library -- as well as the Police, Fire and Public Works departments -- are paid for through other revenue streams." Sales taxes, which constitute the "biggest source of revenue," have "dwindled in the recession, to an estimated $10 million in 2009 from about $11.4 million in 2007" and as a result, the village "has laid off the equivalent of 28 full-time employees in various departments. To find cost reductions at the library, the village hired a consulting firm that found Oak Brook's librarians are among the highest paid in the Chicago area, with department heads making $29 to $39 an hour."

Enough –

I’m also skeptical about the consultant’s report; however, let’s wait and see what it contains before we all start bashing it.

As for the fire staffing standards being objective, I believe it was pointed out that the standards board also contains lay people, not just firefighters. Plus, if the insurance industry follows the standards for their rates, I assume they find the standards to be reasonable.

Also, “do special DUI patrols that recover 10% of the cost really matter”

If it saves a life, the cost is irrelevant. And saving lives is what we’re really talking about, not using the NPD to generate funds. I don’t know if there’s anything the NPD does which generates more money than it costs. Is this really the criteria we should use as the basis for the types of enforcement the NPD does?

**********

Jim Win –

$950K of the $1.3 million was moved from another, already budgeted, Riverwalk improvement to the bulkhead repair. I don’t have too big of heartache over this, but the one thing I’d want to know is how bad is the bulkhead wall to be repaired? Is it in imminent danger of injuring someone walking along the river, or does it just look bad? If appearances are the issue, the repair should be postponed. If injury is a possibility, then the wall should be fixed to avoid injuries and future lawsuits.

T.B.

CIJ,
You are fighting a loosing battle.... One feel good story in the local papers over the weekend and the reply comments (in favor of the firefighters) are coming out like a wildfire.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/comments/?id=335057

Do not only look at the comments, but also look at the number of thumbs up they received. Firefighters are a loved part of America, like apple pie and mom.

Oh, by the way..... lets see...

A house fire on 8TH street.

A warehouse explosion, with haz-mat and burning metals that can not have water put on them, on Frontenac Road.

A townhouse fire on West Court, and the saving of "mans best fire."


All news stories I have read lately in the Sun. They have my support.

Who is in favor of unmasking CJI? She was so concerned about unmasking the Napergate man and completely intruded in his life, never once did he come on and say, "I agree with and support this cowardly blogger who goes by a variety of names." CJI pretty much was begging him to sue the police department and she gave all of her opinions on how to do it. We are still waiting for NGM to acknowledge one of your crazy comments. When you are unmasked, I have a feeling you will be held accountable for the years of crazy, liable comments that are archieved here. The trouble is, no one really cares enough about what you have to say to make it worth while to pursue. That will change one day when someone has had enough of your nonsense. Good luck and keep typing...

A firefighter, and a Hurt Puppy, and a little girl that lost everything, EXCEPT HER PUPPY because of a brave firefighter.....

What a GREAT picture, THIS IS PURE NORMAN ROCKWELL.

Hearts are melting all over the city with this one.

Hmmm...no liar...no fabricator....

How about:
Prevaricator?
Dissembler?
Fibber?
Distorter??
Misrepresenter?
Tergiversator?

My personal favorite.........

Jive turkey?

By Anonymous on November 8, 2009 9:41 PM
Yes I saw more than 5 ambulances at Edwards the time I was there. And by the way, CIJ, I do not have any personal friends or family members who are employees of ANY fire department or police department.

========================================================================================================================================

I like how you are suddenly diluting your statement from 5 NFD ambulances to a total of more than 5 ambulances which I have seen on more than one occassion at Edward's but not during my research of the last week or so. You initially said you saw 5 NFD ambulances and 2 L-W amubulances EXACTLY like the other Anonymous Blogger. It is interesting that you would choose his exact combination since many many ambulance services use Edward's beside Naperville and L-W FDs.

If you would have said 3 NFDs, one L-W, one Warrenville, and 2 Superiors you may have had me fooled. But you said EXACTLY what he said which is a PROBABILITY of almost ZERO.

If you would distort in this manner, why would anyone believe your statement that you have no friends or family working in the NFD. For one, I don't believe you as you lost all your credibilty as you try to plug your inaccuracy and expose yourself instead of APOLOGIZE for it. You are lucky the Moderator is forcing me to use polite words.

Superior and Platinum Amublances some of which look like NFD ambulances are apparently running many Nursing Day Care older folks back and forth from Edward's. This appears to be the greatest movement at Edward's. I do not know why these Nursing Day Care Centers have to call private ambulances if they are paying Naperville Real Estate Taxes. Anyone know???

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee,

I hope you realize how difficult you are making it for me to hold all these Anonymous Bloggers responsible and accountable for their remarks. You have to understand they enjoy attacking and spreading rumors under the ANONYMOUS HANDLE as they can not be held accountable....allowing them to spread FILTH on your blog site which you claim is down in VIEWERSHIP from last year. Please control the filth and rectangular it and you may see your BLOG SITE boom again. (And please don't blame me for your other 8 threads on the Main Page that often stall when I avoid them.)

If I left your Blog Site as many bloggers wish, it would most likely follow All Points West to the Graveyard. Let us face it, he BANNED me just like the Bloggers want you to do with me. I am one of the few on here bringing facts from devoted research that people are constantly challenging. I do think you are more brilliant than Mr. Tim West who dug his own grave with his own shovel and somehow managed to bury himself 6 feet under. Where were all these bloggers to help conservative Mr. West give them the blog site they wanted? One that would pat City Officials on the back and not allow anyone to hold them accountable and responsible. I challenge any one of your bloggers who claims he can not stand me to please tell me why they did not go to Mr. West's blog site where there was NO OPPOSITION permitted from CIJ. These bloggers actually don't care to blog....they only care to cover-up the truth when someone is trying to disclose it. They like the ESTABLISHMENT ENRICHMENT and ENTITLMENT they or their relatives are probably benefitting from on the backs of taxpayers which are breaking under the pressure of the weight.

For all those who want to have CREDIBILITY including bloggers who have supported me in the past and present, it is important that you don't use the ANONYMOUS HANDLE as you will never have any credibility and sometimes you may be accused WRONGFULLY. Anything coming from an Anonymous Handle has to be taken with great suspician.....with a grain of salt. Just notice how this above blogger is changing his statement as he is CORNERED against a wall. As he is CHECKMATED with spreading FALSEHOODS!

Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 9, 2009 12:11 AM

All you folks who want me to have my own Blog Site, why don't you scoot off this thread so I can use it as my Blog Site to communicate to City Leaders.

If you were not distressed by the seriousness of MY MESSAGE you would be on onr of the other 9 threads on the Main Page, 2 of which are OPEN TOPIC and allow you to discuss anything.

________________________________


The topic of this particular thread is "Council votes to raise property tax rate". This topic obviously interests many people who wish to be heard without being villified by CIJ because of it. Tell me again CIJ why it is that everyone else must move to one of the other threads in order to have a conversation? Why don't you move your fiction over to the open topic thread? I say "fiction" because as you so often say, you use a variety of fictional characters to get your messages across.

If this is the method you have chosen to communicate with city leaders it's obvious why nothing has changed in the last 4 years, and why you keep repeating the same thing over and over. If you were as charismatic as you claim you could go onto any thread and your Napergate lackey(s) (I believe there is only one) would follow you in droves.

I would challenge Chris to put up a topic labeled "CIJ" on the Naperville Sun Potluck. This could be CIJ's own topic and the rest of us could choose to respond on it, or spend time on topics that we wish to comment and have legitimate debate.

CIJ....
Go study for your test on "the teachings of Napergate man"-and return once you can learn to behave yourself.

By Anonymous on November 9, 2009 1:01 AM
CIJ - you just dont get it - many people dont like you, many people dont believe you, and many people look forward to opportunities to to remind the rest fo the readers when you look silly or make stupid comments.

========================================================================================================================================

I DO GET IT....

1. Many people who I am calling to make SACRIFCIES of course don't like me. They don't want anyone to mention their Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Pensions, and Bigger and Fatter Beneifts.

2. I am not here trying to win a popularity contest. I am here trying to find a way to plug the huge deficits we have in this town.

3. Not plugging these deficits means the town will one day have to file BANKRUPTCY through Chapter 9. If that happens those who hate me for trying to reduce salaries and pensions by 10% will hate me much more when they notice their checks are bouncing and their pension funds have been closed.

4. Park National Bank with 3 branches in Naperville which appeared successful was closed down....no chance of even BANKRUPTCY. Do you think this bank was in a position to pay additional taxes on its 3 buildings in Naperville? It needed substantially reduced expenses and taxes to have a chance. It is gone now. (I was a depositor there. The employees were probably misled to the solvency of their bank as City Employees are being mislead to the solvency of the City of Naperville. I was mislead but thankfully had FDIC Insurance up to $250k and will not lose a penny. My son opened his first bank account there with $3500 he saved over his life time. I guess he got an early wake-up call regarding the real world. But the FDIC saved him and I told him in advance this would be the case if the BANK collapsed.) Just as you folks think the City will never collapse when we opened accounts at this BANK with great locations in Naperville we also thought it would never collapse. But the last time I checked the City of Naperville does not have FDIC INSURANCE. So be careful folks! With our $160.8 million in deficits and pension fund losses this year, Naperville could collapse suddenly and without notice just like Park National Bank collapsed. It is currently as fragile as an egg. If Naperville Taxpayers voted to eliminate Home Rule, I suspect the City would fail immediately as they do not know how to watch expenses.

All they know is how to issue new credit cards for themselves. The NEW RIVERWALK project did not come from the existing $50 million budget. It is being done with the use of a CREDIT CARD my friends that we will pay for dearly in upcoming years. This is why the situation keeps getting worse and worse in Naperville despite the McMansion spread in town. Anyone who has tried to pay old credit cards with new credit cards knows that it is only a matter of time. Our Drunken Sailors in City Hall are so DRUNK they have no clue that it is a matter of time. They must love Junior Krieger as he is a fiscally irresponsible as they want him to be. I will never forget that smirk on his face when his Benefits Manager presented a more expensive Dental Plan that cost us taxpayers more money. UNBELIVEBLE!


I was also a depositor at Washington Mutual, which had many branches in town including downtown on Jefferson, but pulled out before it collapsed due to a tip from the President of Lisle Savings and Loan. We are not just talking about failures in town...they are actually happening. Businesses besides residents need reduced real estate taxes. My apartment dwellers are demanding and need reduced rent. How can I reduce their rents to the level they are demanding if FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE goverment is increasing my apartment building taxes. Remember now Naperville is only one component of my tax bill but it certainly is not doing its fair share by raising taxes even a penny. How about making the employees pay for 50% of their beneifit costs instead of 10%. This would save us 8 million on medical insurance alone wiping out over half the deficit. If we charged them 50% on all their benefits, we would not only not have a deficit we would have a surplus.

And just to let people understand that Naperville is not the only screw-up, but my insurance company on these apartment buildings had a 15% increase. When I asked my agent, why, he said the company lost tons of money on bad real estate investments and in the stock market and need the additional funds to remain solvent. Hallelujah!!! My apartment dwellers don't want to hear this garbage and should not have to. I am reducing their rent or else they will all move back with their parents and relatives and I will have empty buildings and will have to petition Dupage for tax abatement which will bite the City of Naperville in the butt....maybe that will wake the Drunken Pirates up....

Thankfully, I know how to trade stocks to generate money for my 2 daughters in college and my 2 sons who will hopefully be in college one day. But I think it is unfair I have to spend my days trading stocks from 830am-3pm each weekday to make ends meet while our POs and FFs get to retire with 75% of their highest and final salaries after 30 years of employment usually at the young ripe age of 52. Or in some cases DOUBLE DIP the taxpayers to death like Senior Robert Marshall. I guess if we must have a Junior Krieger we must have a Senior Marshall....lol...


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Municiplaties across the country before the recession were charging their employees 38% for health benefits and I believe 68% for FAMILY DENTAL benefits. We only charge 10% and brag about it to city employees. I am speaking from memory and could be off a percentage here and there but I did post the links in an earlier post....and even copy and pasted the numbers.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


5. The NPD and NFD pension managers did not watch out for their risks like my son and I did. Why? Because they knew they had no risk as whatever they lost would have to be replaced from the pocketbooks and purses of Naperville taxpayers. And that is what is happening as we increased our contributions per year by one million dollars to each with forecasts to increase it even further in the future. It is forecasted be over $5 million to each pension fund per year just in a couple of years. A year or two ago it was half of that. (Speaking from memory after thoroughly reviewing the financial statements of the City of Naperville 2 weeks ago.)

6. Many people actually believe me and know what I say is VERY TRUE.
This really is the problem.......not that they don't believe me but the fear that others will believe me is eating away at my bashers since I am not only telling the truth but it can be proved to be the truth.
(Let us not forget the Napergate Man was attacked, framed and lynched by City Officials 10 times as bad as anything I am experiencing for exposing their IMPROPRIETIES and CORRUPTION and in the end he prevailed against the FISCALLY DRUNK with power in City Hall.)

7. I have always started a new thread with no attacks on anyone. Just dealing with the subject matter and went out of the way to point that out to the Moderator publicy and in off the record private messages. I am viciously attacked instead of my message. You here again in your last post entirely ignore my MESSAGE instead of rebut it and attempt to lecture me in Blog Etiquet. You can not even practice what you preach. Give me a break.

8. Much of the responsibility for the attacks has to fall on the shoulders of the Moderator who allows people like you to blog under Anonymous. You and all the Anonymouses are the perpetuators of the worse attacks. T.B. and a John Q. Public do care about the reputations of their respective handles and I have successfully entered truces with them or forced them to back down by showing them attacks and counter-attacks are counter-productive...are uesless exercises leading to nowhere. We have moved forward in my opinion....hopefully.

9. But bloggers who use the handle Anonymous in my opinion to attack others are COWARDS.

10. Again I am asking the MODERATOR to please kindly force bloggers to pick a simple handle or pick one for them....if they can't pick one for themselves, as corps pick passwords for you, if you can not think of 4 or 5 digits for yourself.

PLEASE KINDLY CONSIDER THIS REQUEST, MODERATOR MAGEE, AS IT WILL HELP US MOVE FORWARD.

Once a person's post will get rejected he or she will repost with a HANDLE. Your site will not lose any bloggers. It will gain credibility and reputation which it needs as these Anonymous Bloggers will be prevented from abusing it and destroying it as it is their goal. They know your blog is very EFFECTIVE in waking up the residents one by one and this is what is really DRIVING THEM NUTS!!!

Thank you.

CIJ

I just went past Edward Hospital and saw The Napergate Man driving 29 Naperville Ambulances AND 15 Police Cars ... All at the same time!

That man is a Super Hero in my book!

God bless our Napergate Man!

CIJ - perhaps people use an anonymous handle because they fear someone here might be emotionally and mentally unstable and and would try to do something to hurt them or their families.

By Jim Win on November 9, 2009 11:55 AM

That man is a Super Hero in my book!
God bless our Napergate Man!

========================================================================================================================================

I do agree with you.

He is the first one to crack City Hall and expose their improprieties and corruption.

He would not stop even though the city attempted to frame and lynch him.

He would not stop even though the city revoked his 2 liquor licenses.

He would not stop even though the city worked to impeach his credibility and tarnish his reputation.

He was relentless and steadfast in his pursuit of City Hall and the bottom line is he beat them in 3 court battles. The bottom line is he was able to fill City Council Chambers and hold the fiscally irresponsible drunken sailors, accountable for their waste of taxpayer money.

Some of us are just trying to continue his iconic legacy by continuing his important work.

If we don't, this $160.8 million in deficits and pension funds losses will finish us off. In other words we will have to file Chapter 9 bankruptcy and we will owe our Police Officers and Fire Fighters nothing in retirement.

They will have to work as greeters at Sam's and Wal-Mart till age 85 instead of rocking in their chairs with cigars in tow at age 52.

As the saying states, "what comes around goes around."

Thank you,

CIJ

By Anonymous on November 9, 2009 2:02 PM
CIJ - perhaps people use an anonymous handle because they fear someone here might be emotionally and mentally unstable and and would try to do something to hurt them or their families.


========================================================================================================================================

That is EXACTLY why I use an ANONYMOUS HANDLE. I fear that dozens on this blog site are becoming emotionally and mentally unstable as their Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Pensions and Bigger and Fatter Benefits become exposed and residents try to curtail them.

Some of these people carry guns and posses rifles. I don't so no one needs to fear me. Yes, I would like to throw the podium at City Officials but I can control myself by avoiding chambers. I can barely stand to listen to these folks on CABLE TV....if I was there in person I would probably turn sick before I threw the podium at them.

Now I am not asking for anyone to use their real names.

I am asking bloggers to use a HANDLE other than ANONYMOUS so I can hold them accountable for their comments.

A good choice for some bloggers would be EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE or MENTALLY UNSTABLE for a choice of handle.....it would fit them and I could easily identify them as emotionally and mentally unstable and be gentle in my remarks and comments towards them.

Thank you,

CIJ

CIJ stated"
"I like how you are suddenly diluting your statement from 5 NFD ambulances to a total of more than 5 ambulances which I have seen on more than one occassion at Edward's but not during my research of the last week or so. You initially said you saw 5 NFD ambulances and 2 L-W amubulances EXACTLY like the other Anonymous Blogger. It is interesting that you would choose his exact combination since many many ambulance services use Edward's beside Naperville and L-W FDs."

I never said I saw EXACTLY the same as the other blogger. Here is EXACTLY what I said in my first post on this issue
By Anonymous on November 6, 2009 10:01 PM
"I myself have seen more than 5 ambulances there on one occasion when I took my own child to the emergency room in the middle of the night."

Here is what I said when you claimed I was diluting or changing my words
By Anonymous on November 8, 2009 9:41 PM
"Yes I saw more than 5 ambulances at Edwards the time I was there."

No inconsistencies as you claim there at all. Slightly different wording but each account is the same: more than 5 ambulances.

Obviously your memory is not what you think it is.

By Anonymous on November 9, 2009 2:02 PM said:

CIJ - perhaps people use an anonymous handle because they fear someone here might be emotionally and mentally unstable and and would try to do something to hurt them or their families.

__________________________________________________________

That is correct on my part. I used to use another name when I blogged here - two in fact: my real first name when I was new and naive, and then another name. Now, I don't want to be singled out. It is quite possible that others use the "Anonymous" name for that same reason. Or, they use it because it bothers CIJ and consider it payback for when she posted as BHO/Ameena/et al and would not discontinue her off-center comments. Her requests that Chris 'ban' the use of 'Anonymous' is ridiculous.

CIJ - the only thing that will maintain this sites credibility will be you leaving it. It has reached a point where you are actually lending credibility to anything City Hall does ...... if you post obsessively against it, then it must have some merit. Get your own site .... the suggestion that you go on with Huber is an excellent one, though I doubt he would take you ..... you might cast doubt on HIS credibility at this point.

'My credibility remains untarnished'

LOL

"T.B. and a John Q. Public do care about the reputations of their respective handles and I have successfully entered truces with them or forced them to back down by showing them attacks and counter-attacks are counter-productive"

CIJ, you showed me nothing. Please stop referring to me. I do not want to be associated with you or your posts.

T.B.

Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 9, 2009 2:38 PM

CIJ wrote: I am asking bloggers to use a HANDLE other than ANONYMOUS so I can hold them accountable for their comments. A good choice for some bloggers would be EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE or MENTALLY UNSTABLE for a choice of handle.....


That is a good suggestion except for the fact that you have already cornered the market on these designations. any other suggestions?

CIJ
If using Anonymous handles bother you so much, blog elsewhere. At this time, I don't think the Sun plans on adding a login system to these blogs and Moderator Magee has better things to do than to enforce this himself. I have a feeling that right now the moderator is wishing someone else had the responsibility of administering this blog.
Again, as others have suggested, go start your own blog where you can require logins, handles, etc. You obviously have the time to administer your own blog.

Here's an article to get you started. You can use this to determine which platform would be best for your needs.
http://www.bloggingbasics101.com/2009/01/choosing-a-blogging-platform/

"By Handle on November 9, 2009 4:09 PM"

Love the "handle", LOL!

"One Anonymous Blogger is now attacking me because I have been stating that POs and FFs receive a 75% pension at age 52.

Of course I know if they start at 21 and work 30 years, it comes at age 51. I also know if they start at age 24 and work 30 years, it comes at age 54."

Still wrong. STILL WRONG!!!!

Can you QUICKLY explain to me the FF/PO pension benefit? Without initiating research?? You SHOULD KNOW IT the way you berate it. How much do these employees pay out of their paycheck toward their pension?

Here is my new handle:

Doesn't Believe CIJ Has Any Credibility

Now that's an handle to hold on to.

Handle:

Maybe you can explain where CIJ is wrong and quote the ILCS to show where he is wrong about the pensions. Really.

At the same time, maybe you could link to the Illinois Constitution and explain to CIJ how there have been very very few 9-0 decisions out of the Illinois Supreme Court. Napergate man must be special to have those kind of numbers in his favor. (CIJ: please look this up yourself. You have said this enough times that you need to check the numbers.)

Mr. Handle, perhaps you could also tell us how many employees would be ecstatic to have a plan that allows them to put away 10% of their salary pretax and have their employer match it with 20% or more and then have any market crash made up by the employer.

e^(i*pi)

Hahaha! I love the new handles! Can we start a handle contest?

These are great:
Doesn't Believe CIJ Has Any Credibility
By Cant Use The Pump 'Cause The Vandals Stole The Handle

And here I thought people were going to start using: Anonymous1, Anonymous2, Anonymous3... Yours are much more original!

By Handle on November 9, 2009 6:11 PM

Can you QUICKLY explain to me the FF/PO pension benefit? Without initiating research?? You SHOULD KNOW IT the way you berate it. How much do these employees pay out of their paycheck toward their pension?


========================================================================================================================================

I have explained it over 1000 times and you want me to repeat myself only to complain I repeat myself....lol....how ridiculous can this be.

Form memory I believe FFs pay 9.45% or 9.46% of their salaries into pension contributions. I believe POs pay 9.91%. Or it could be the other way around if I am wrong.

Before the City of Naperville increased taxpayer contributions, I believe they were paying about 20%. A number I remember for one of them was 20.16%. I believe with the new increases taxpayers will be paying about 25% in contributions annually towards the pension funds. Ridiculous and ludicrous if you ask me since private corps usually only pay 2-4% in good times and many eliminate matching contribution in bad times for 401ks.

These percentages of roughly 20% were when we taxpayers were contributing roughly $3.5 million for each pension fund. In the latest forecasted budget it was revealed that we the taxpayers may be contributing about $4.5 million for each pension fund of the police and fire.(Speaking from memory as I am not going to re-read a 750 page report every time someone asks me a question. The reason I can write a lot is I have a decent memory and don't have to keep looking things up....plus I am an extremely fast typist....not because I don't have a life.) I did miss the entire World Series though as I did not consider it very important to my life and was too busy to make time for it.

Again, FFs and POs, after 30 years of employment receive a pension benefit of 75% of their highest and final salary. They must be at least age 50. I do know of a specific incident in the L-W fire fighters department where a retiree received both a raise followed by a promotion right before he retired to jack up his pension. I was actually invited to go to his farewell party that was on Rt. 53 at a banquet hall but I declined. School adminstrators are also notorious for end of career promotions and 25% raises. One retired school teacher played the system for I think 339,000 in annual pension benefits according to an investigative report in the Sun Times. I published the exact number on this blog site when I first read it. This number could be off but is in the ball park.

I do not know of any such shenanigans in the NFD as I don't know any fire fighters or even the name of one fire fighter. I don't even know the Chief's name or the prior Chief's name. There is nothing personal about what I am doing. I am simply trying to squeeze some contributions from the FD to help plug the $14.1 operating budget so the library and others do not have to take the entire burden.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


If all City Employees paid HALF the cost of their benefits we would could eliminate the entire deficit without laying a single employee off....without reducing Fire Fighter hours....without sacrificing a single service to residents.....even leaf pick up which I don't use but believe my neighbors deserve and 90% of them use.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

BTW, I had a private company suction my leaves up for 30 bucks today. Others may spend hours raking leaves while I write posts to help present solutions to eliminating our financial crisis since City Officials and Council Members simply can not think out of the box just like most bloggers here.

Half of the 16 million in health benefits is 8 million alone. This is only 1 of 14 or so benefits. Think of that folks instead of bashing me relentlessly for simply presenting proposed solutions that could easily resolve our financial crisis.

All you folks do after I make a proposal is attack ME. It is utter nonsense and the Moderator has to take full responsibility for allowing this to happen on a Blog Site he fully controls. He is allowing a gang mentality on this blog site which prevents others from joining in the debate for fear that budget conscious people will be attacked.

The Moderator himself has called these attacks counter-productive but he refuses to stop them. Why, may I politely ask?

Only someone who is blind would not notice that I am constantly making genuine proposals and for that I am BLASTED and BASHED unfairly and relentlessly.

Even people like Napergatian Kevin can no longer see through all this thick smoke. Honestly, I am not even sure if the ICONIC NAPERGATE MAN could have seen through all this thick smoke.

I guess if the brilliant iconic Napergate Man possibly could not have seen through it, why should I expect Moderator Magee to see through it???

If you think of it FFs, their supporters, and friends can turn a fire into smoldering smoke. They have the expertise and have done an excellent job. Kudos to all of them for putting up the greatest SMOKESCREEN in the history of the City of Naperville. Let us give them a STANDING OVATION. Let us hope they don't CHOKE from their own SMOKE.
Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

PS. My last post was over 7 hours ago, so I do have a life. I am heading to work out to stay healthy. What are you guys doing....watching horror movies about failed pension systems????

CIJ posted......."on your blog site which you claim is down in VIEWERSHIP from last year."

That's a no brainer CIJ.

Of course viewership is down from last year. When Chris outed your multiple personality scheme, that eliminated the majority of posters on the blogs.

e^(i*pi),

What does the Napergate Man winning a court case over the city's refusal to renew his liquor license have to do with any of the various causes CIJ has espoused? The NGM's having been right once does not make CIJ right about everything today.

-JQP

How come we hear so much about the great Napergate man but we never hear that his corporation was accused of and found liable of wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act for his liquor stores? Further that it was so egregious that he was found personally liable for a civil penalty of over $70,0000 along with personally being liable for the taxes and interest itself. And, the Supreme Court found his case so wanting that it refused to even hear the case. This was money that he failed to pay the city and state which means that our taxes had to make up the difference for his failure to pay.

One ACT ambulance from Brookfield inside the enclosed Bay Area at 11:08 pm. Another Superior Amubulance parked in the non-emergency area west designated only for ambulances.

At 11:31pm the Brookfield Ambulance exited the Bay Area and there were no other ambulances in there. The Superior Ambulance remained in place most likely waiting to take its Nursing Patient home.


========================================================================================================================================
Again no NFD amublances sighted. If someone claims they see a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances each and every time they are there after MIDNIGHT, logic and common sense would indicate I should have sighted 1 NFD ambulance, let alone 5, after 12 visits especially since I am looking for them very very closely.

He did not say once when I took my son. But each and every time I was there after MIDNIGHT, albeit in different words.

So we have a GANG MENTALITY who support 2 bloggers who apparently can not tell the full truth.

Not one person will stand up and be counted and say these people who distort do not help our cause. This really says a lot about the credibility of the majority of bloggers on this blog site.

I am giving exact times, dates and even ambulance services. My information can be challenged if not 100% truthful. It is not being challenged because it is obviously very accurate and honest.

I encourage the dozens of bloggers to drive by Edward's when they pass by it off Washington St. and do some documentation if they truly seek the truth. Keyboarding nonsense does not help us arrive at solutions for proper staffing of the NFD after MIDNIGHT and till 6:00am.

Thank you,
CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

Ps. In 40 years of observation I have never seen 5 NFD ambulances there at once. I also never saw a total of 9 from combined ambulance services. I doubt the Emergency Room is staffed to handle 9 ambulances at one time but more likely 2 at one time. If 9 do come once in a blue moon, I believe Edward's can immediately draw numerous doctors and nurses off floors whose patient care can be delayed.

I do not trust any pictures from an unreliable source. As we all know these days computers can alter pictures very easily.

By e^(i*pi) on November 9, 2009 7:44 PM
Handle:

At the same time, maybe you could link to the Illinois Constitution and explain to CIJ how there have been very very few 9-0 decisions out of the Illinois Supreme Court. Napergate man must be special to have those kind of numbers in his favor. (CIJ: please look this up yourself. You have said this enough times that you need to check the numbers.)


========================================================================================================================================

I don't have a major recollection of events in the mid-eighties as as I was a busy executive taking buses, trains, buses and elevators to get to my work in Chicago with Fortune 1000 companies.

The Napergate ads stated he won 9-0 in the Supreme Court. I do recall the city revoked his liquor license and it was shut down and suddenly it reopened. I just don't think the Supreme Court was going to support the draconian measures of any City including and especially Stepford Wives, USA!

I am more familiar with his latter cases in the mid-nineties that I read about in the Naperville Sun, Daily Herald, Chicago Tribune including Eric Zorn columns supporting the Napergate Man and the famous Napergate ads.

In that case the city held a Kangaroo Court for him and lynched and framed him with a mob mentality despite overwhelming video evidence supporting him. For Heaven's Sake the man just won a National Award for the most Responsiblke Drinking Sales Campaign in the nation awarded by the Newspaper Guild of America jointly with the National Alcohol Beverage Retailers Association. He received his Kylix Award in the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas before thousands of members of both organizations.

Despite his local and national overwhelming support, his strictness, the fact that he had confiscated 5.5 times the number of IDs as all other liquor establishments in Naperville COMBINED, he was convicted in a special Naperville Kangaroo Court set up in City Hall that lasted about 2 weeks. These people had no conscious in City Hall.

I don't know how they thought they could get away with it.

He won all his appeals with the final one being a 3-0 victory in the Illinios Appellate Court. If the city had not surrendered and it went to the Supreme Court, he would have certainly had his second 9-0 victory against City Hall. I think the city raised the white flag of surrender knowing this is a CERTAINTY. They chose not to appeal even though money is never an issure for the Fiscally Irresponsible Drunken Sailors. They could have issued another credit card for themselves but they knew DEFEAT was CERTAIN and IMMINENT in the Supreme Court of Illinois.

Normal courts will not ignore video evidence. They will not ignore Kylix Awards. They will not ignore 3500 petitioners who notarized a document alleging the City of Naperville framed the Napergate Man.

But the Kangaroo Court of Naperville ignored everything. Maybe they thought this Mom and Pop liquor store owner did not have the funds to fight it to the Supreme Court. I don't know. But they should have known since he fought them to the Supreme Court tooth and nail in the mid-eighties and beat them 9-0.

As I said when you have drunken sailors running the town, crazy thing happen. Look at what you see on this blog site despite my documentation.

Bloggers have attempted to frame and lynch me. They have convicted me of being a crazy person. And they think people will believe them....lol..

Thank you,

CIJ

PS. As most people from the Napergate Era knew, this had nothing to do with his liquor licenses or perfomance. It was an attempt to cut the source of funds for his Napergate Ads which apparently were his 2 liquor stores in Naperville.

JQP. I ask that you reread my paragraph about the Illinois Supreme Court and Napergate man (nicely underlined above*) to find out that I am certainly not supporting CIJ's various causes at all. That comment about Napergate man was sarcastic and subtle. Hint: "very very few 9-0 decisions" = zero.

Do not misconstrue my comment about wanting to hear what CIJ has to say = I agree with CIJ and his tactics. You have to search for something good. Reading through his posts is like searching for a needle in a haystack. Unfortunately, sometimes you find a rusty nail, broken glass, a functioning mousetrap snapping on your hand, and all other sorts of unpleasantries before you can find that needle. Usually you just see the same hay over and over again.

-1

* Yes, joking again given your love of his formatting.

'Maybe you can explain where CIJ is wrong and quote the ILCS to show where he is wrong about the pensions. Really.'

I am not the one spouting off about how these plans are so out of order. CIJ is.

'CIJ: please look this up yourself. You have said this enough times that you need to check the numbers.'

You said it, sister.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the 9-0 decision. I will not comment on that.

But since CIJ refuses to print the ENTIRE truth about FF/PO pensions, here it is:

20 years of service, 50% salary at age 50.
2.5 % more per year up to cap of 75% at 30 years of service.
MOST FF's RETIRE BEFORE THEY REACH 30 YEARS!!!!

CIJ said:
'So we have a GANG MENTALITY who support 2 bloggers who apparently can not tell the full truth.'
Here is a black and white example of YOU not telling the FULL TRUTH!! The way you have put it countless times in this blog leads readers to believe that 75% at 30 years is the only option. NOT TRUE!!
I wish I knew HTML to further emphasize my point, but alas I can barely type!!

'Mr. Handle, perhaps you could also tell us how many employees would be ecstatic to have a plan that allows them to put away 10% of their salary pretax and have their employer match it with 20% or more and then have any market crash made up by the employer.'

Of course this is a fantastic retirement benefit. Those guys deserve it. It is a young man's job, both FF and PO. The fact of the matter is this: We were all 18 once, and had to decide on a career path. Some decided to serve their communities, knowing that there was a limit to pay, but good retirement and a steady career. Others followed the path of the private sector, where there is no limit to potential pay but riskier. Take your chances, go for the big bucks. Now when the economy is in the toilet, certain people whine about those who serve and their salary and benefits. I know these guys make a good buck, and they deserve it. Why wouldn't we want them to earn a good living??

Sure, there is plenty of Government waste out there. It aggravates me to no end, also. But the brave men and women who serve as Police Officers and Firefighters deserve what they get. Money well spent, in my opinion.

'The mean, or average, income for a family in Naperville was $149,352 according to the 2005 census' according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naperville,_Illinois

If someone were to invest half to their money above what a cop of fireman makes into a retirement plan then they would have a much better retirement benefit than that of the FF or PO's.

Experienced:

Please tell us more about your post concerning the Napergate Man's tax evasion issues. it is good to learn more about the man behind the curtain

On Oct. 27th I said:

"The big test will be the levy ordinance that they have to adopt by the second Tuesday in December. That is what is actually going to drive the tax bills and tax rate. What they did last nite was set the allowable parameters for that ordinance. If they adopt (or even propose) a levy ordinance that has been inflated beyond the budget and/or cuts that have been approved, then they have breached their relationship with the tax payers."

This morning they published the notice of proposed tax levy and hearing. Disregarding the debt service portion of the corporate levy over which the council has no control, the proposed levy is almost a million dollars more than last year. This number appears to be over $1.3 million MORE than budgeted. Budget Pg. 24.

Now is the time for righteous indignation. Instead of cutting the budgeted levy from last year, they increased it. And, they increased it over the amount budgeted in April.

The hearing is set for Nov. 17th at 7pm. If you don't show and testify, don't complain.

By Handle on November 10, 2009 9:48 AM
'Maybe you can explain where CIJ is wrong and quote the ILCS to show where he is wrong about the pensions. Really.
But since CIJ refuses to print the ENTIRE truth about FF/PO pensions, here it is:
20 years of service, 50% salary at age 50.
2.5 % more per year up to cap of 75% at 30 years of service.
MOST FF's RETIRE BEFORE THEY REACH 30 YEARS!!!!

========================================================================================================================================

I have printed this information many times about pensions the last 3.5 years. I also printed there are differenrt S.S. Benefits for civilians if they retire at 62, 66, or 70.

You pretty much confirmed what I have been saying.

According to my FF friend from L-W most FFs want to get their 30 years in so they can get their 75% pension....and stick it out since it is a very easy job even though BORING according to him. I don't doubt him after seeing hardly any ambulances at Edward's the last 12 visits and none from Naperville.

I also checked the HELIPORT to make sure our NFD Fire Fighters were not using HELI-AMUBLANCES but I have never seen a Helicopter land at Edwards's. I am sure it has happend but I am yet to see it despite almost being there daily the last 21 years since joining the Hospital Club right across the street from the HELIPORT.

It appears to me that Napervillians watch their health better than most folks and must have cut down on drinking and driving since the downtown is loaded with cabs and residents and non-residents are using them extensively these days....Thank God for this progress.

But no adjustments in the Fire Department. Let us keep double what we need....they say just in case. I say so they can sleep and make 180 dollars sleeping. I say so they can collect their OT. I say so they can collect their Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Pensions and Bigger and Fatter Benefits that have been disclosed recently on this blog site and in city council meetings. Yes, we the taxpayers have been paying about 90% of the BENEFITS of City Employees in the past and that is the MAIN REASON we have a $14.1 million operating budget deficit.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If City Employees paid for 50% of their benefits, we would have an Operating Budget Surplus and can fix the walls of the Riverwalk without borrowing and burdening our children with the left overs of our DRUNKEN SAILORS.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And being able to retire with a 50% pension after 20 years of work is also a remarkable feat that is not given anywhere in the private world.

Even if you retire at age 70 with 50 years of employment in the private sector, you will not achieve 50% of your highest pay for the rest of your life.....and keep in mind you will not have many years left to live.

I did not lie or deceive. You and others complain about my long posts and now you complain that an insignificant detail that I mentioned numerous times before is now missing....lol...

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. Please, Moderator Magee, don't complain about my long letters if these bloggers want every detail in each and every one of my posts. Can you believe it, Moderator Magee, that if I leave a detail out that is meaningless in the context of the discussions and the overall picture, they will accuse me of not presenting the ENTIRE TRUTH.....lol....what is next!


By Doesn't Believe CIJ Has Any Credibility on November 10, 2009 11:37 AM
Experienced:

Please tell us more about your post concerning the Napergate Man's tax evasion issues. it is good to learn more about the man behind the curtain
------------------------------------------------------

"JUSTICE KAPALA delivered the opinion of the court:

"Plaintiff, Basim Esmail, was president, secretary, and treasurer of Bazco Enterprises, Inc., d/b/a Extra Value Liquors (Bazco), a retail liquor business. The Illinois Department of Revenue (the
Department) assessed a penalty against plaintiff in the amount of $72,039.34 for wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act (Retailer's Act) (35 ILCS 120/1 et seq. (West 2004)). Plaintiff was held personally liable for the tax delinquency, pursuant to section 3--7 of the Uniform Penalty and Interest Act (UPI Act) (35 ILCS 735/3--7 (West 2004)). Section 3--7 of the UPI Act provides that any corporate officer who is responsible for 'filing returns and making payment of the amount of any trust tax" and "who wilfully fails to file the return or make the payment to the Department *** shall be personally liable' for the delinquency. 35 ILCS 735/3–7(a) (West 2004)."

Esmail tried to appeal the IDOR decision to the circuit court as to his personal liability but not as to the business liability. Judge Wheaton (in Wheaton) dismissed the appeal for failure to follow appellate procedures and entered judgment against Esmail as ordered by IDOR. The Second District Court of Appeals affirmed, 3-0 [BOWMAN and HUTCHINSON, JJ., concur in Justice Kapala's opinion]. The Illinois Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

, I just woke up from my loooooong nap again. Whew, I better get to the gym for the next two hours. Then what? Ill just sit around collecting my millions while hard working individuals like CSI are collecting her rent payments and paying her taxes like a good girl for me. Where is that silly pension check again? Oh, yes, there it is... Im glad I am so rich, so bored, and so young.

By Experienced on November 9, 2009 11:09 PM
How come we hear so much about the great Napergate man but we never hear that his corporation was accused of and found liable of wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act for his liquor stores?


========================================================================================================================================

This issue was already discussed on this blog site and Host Ted and Moderator Jim asked us to drop it as it had no relevance to Naperville and was a personal tax matter that they felt was not appropriate to be discussed here. It was dropped based on their recommendation. Where were you at the time, Experienced? This is very old news that will only bring allegations of REPEAT, REPEAT and REPEAT.

After it flared up on this blog site 2 years, I went to Dupage County Court and researched it.


****************************************************************************************************************************************

HERE IS WHAT I DISCOVERED:

1. It only involved one of his 6 businesses. It was a Roselle Liquor Store set up in its own corporation that he owned and sold nearly a decade ago. Your DELIBERATE use of the word liquor stores in the PLURAL is inappropriate, deceiving and an attempt to tarnish his good reputation.

2. It was in the Cook County portion of Roselle and did not effect Naperville or Dupage or any citizen in Naperville. It involved Cook County Sales Tax.

3. It was as a result of an audit he disagreed with. He had always paid his sales tax on time on a monthly basis as the records in Dupage County and the State of Illinois reveal.

4. He had a right to appeal the verdict of the Illinois Dept. of Revenue and in fact appealed it all the way to the Supreme Court of Illinois which refused to hear the case. I do not know if he had a right to appeal it to the US Supreme Court or if he did so. Maybe Experienced knows as he seems to know everything.

5. There was a discrepancy of 20k between what he paid in the mid-nighties and what he was alleged to have owed in sales tax....a fraction of the total amount he paid. I believe it involved high and low tax which is different from county to county and municipality to municipality. I believe many goods are charged at a lower tax and recently many of these lower tax items were thrown into the higher tax category to help the State of Illinois plug the humongous PENSION DEFICIT. Check your receipts when you get them from your retailer and you will notice higher taxes that took effect either Sept. 1 or Oct 1. Can't remember what date I read in the newspapers.

6. As you should well know if you fight a tax case, the government will continue to tack on interest and penalty at shocking rates. That is how the case went from 20k to over 70k as it weaved its way through the very slow snail paced judicial system.

7. If you disagree with an IRS or State Auditor you are not willfully not paying your sales tax or being egregious as you falsely stated Experienced. You are simply exercising your right to disagree and take it to court.

8. There was no CIVIL PENALTY for 70k. That amount was simply the 20k from the mid-nineties plus interest plus penalty which is typical in all tax cases as almost anyone with a high school education would know. (Aren't you the one Experienced who could not compute a fraction a while back even though you allege you are a FORENSIC ACCOUNTANT....I called you on it and you hibernated for 2 months you were so embarrassed. I don't like to brag about my memory but it is sharp, my friend.)

9. As you should know Forensic Accountant Experienced, you are not allowed to appeal a civil or tax decision unless you post the amount with the court to the best of my knowledge unless a judge has strong cause to believe it should be waived. Since the NGM apparently knew he would appeal, he posted to the best of my recollection a bond for a 100k(BANK CASHIERS CHECK) in excess of the amount in dispute. (So the taxpayers most likely got their tax from this civil dispute if he did not appeal further but did he get his change from the government....knowing the government they probably used a secret formula to increase his penalty and interest until the amount reached $100,000.04 and he was sent a bill for the 4 cents....lol..)

10. While it appears he did lose this case, he lost it on a technicality and basically he never had his day in court regarding the tax issues. It was dismissed due to a procedural error and he never had a chance to have his audit reviewed. Court records in both the state and county showed he paid his monthly sales tax religiously and never missed a payment. The dispute was related to an audit and not filing or paying taxes.

11. A prosecutor for the State of Illinois alleged he sent notice to his attorney by regular mail. His attorney stated he never received the notice that gave him 20 days to appeal the audit. Even though the prosecutor did not send the notice by certified or registered mail to the Napergate Man's Attorney, the Judge ruled if it was sent by US Mail that is good enough and it should have been received.

12. Really an amazing case that shows how corrupt Dupage Court System and Illinois Tax Courts can be.

13. Despite his willingness to post a 100k to have his day in court, the Dupage Judge refused to give him his day in court based on a technicality. In that same hearing the prosecutor over slept one night and never showed up for court but the Judge refused to dismiss the case showing blantant bias for the prosecutor. This is the same prosecutor that claims he sent a letter through First Class Mail.

14.Anyway, Experienced, you should know that being audited by the government is not criminal. It is not a conviction on your character, credibility or reputation. It is simply an audit. It is standard procedure to audit as many citizens and businesses as possible and time and money will allow in this great state and country. ONE of his businesses was audited for a discrepancy(not failure to pay monthly sales tax) and you want to come and smear him or his reputation over an audit DISCREPANCY.

15. Anyway, you have shown the Napergate Man has been to the Appellate and Supreme Court not once but at least 6 times. I would be careful about attacking his reputation in what appears to be a libelous and slanderous way. You could easily find yourself there as it appears he likes to go to Supreme Courts. Do you have the money needed to fight a libel suit, Experienced, for using such words as EGREGIOUS? Unlike me, he has got the proven track record and attorneys to clean you and most bloggers who libel him out.

16. You are lucky the Napergate Man is not on this blog site. I believe if he were and would know you are spreading falsities and distortions about him, he would take you to the cleaners. Do you really want to take him on Experienced? I would think not. Therefore you would be wise to apologize for your untruths before someone every informs him such as implying plural stores instead of single store. Keep in mind, he is a REAL PERSON. You and I are Anonymous and we really can not libel each other no matter what we say about each other. You simply can not damage an Anonymous person financially which is a requirement of libel. But he owns liquor stores and a plaza in town. So you better consult with an attorney as to whether you damaged his reputation unfairly with your distorted falsehoods and issue an apology ASAP. That could get you out of potential litigation that could wipe you clean. I am giving you very good advice, Experienced. You know I have been in the court system many many times as I told you so and not because you guessed wrongfully I was another person you must know from the court system.

17. According to libel law if one apologizes and does not have malicious intent to destroy a reputation, it is not libel. But if one does not apologize knowing he was attacking with malicious intent, he will be convicted of libel. This is according to a link a blogger posted recently about libel that I read. I guess I was accused wrongfully of libel because I stated CM Doug Krause stated he would not raise taxes and then voted to raise them. He told me so to my face but thankfully Original Joe came up with the evidence in writing that he made that statement.(And the former Moderator, Jim Lynch, was kind enough to express an OPINION THAT MY POST WAS NOT LIBEL. Thanks, Mr. Jim Lynch. I hope google alerts you again. I am sure you will remember discussing this case and you said it was inappropriate and of a personal nature and deleted all the posts.)

18. I should point out, Experienced, that you are the one who is always spreading MISINFORMATION on this blog site as to who is responsible for these PENSION FUND losses of the POLICE and FIRE. More than one blogger has called you out and none were me. Having said that my research indicates that we the taxpayers are responsible for these pension fund losses....100%...unless we file Chapter 9 bankruptcy and get out of them which is my TRUE DESIRE.

19. The rules and laws clearly state we have to replenish these Pension Fund losses totaling $20.5 million dollars that were lost by risk taken irresponsibly by the Police and Fire Pension Managers.

20. Here you are worried about a 70k civil judgment about the NGM related to Cook County that does not affect Napervillians ONE CENT but you are not worried about a $20.5 million tax loss created irresponsibly by unnecessary risk by our Police and Fire Pension Funds. Why! What is your HIDDEN AGENDA? Really, tell us Experienced.
Why not go after those who are really squeezing the taxpayers and not someone how posted a CASHIER CHECK in excess of what he owed to pay any disputed taxes. You distorted and told untruths when you said the taxpayers took losses. The taxpayers took no losses. They were paid the 20k in taxes and an extra 50k in penalties and interest due to the length of audit and court rulings not as a CIVIL PENALTY as you falsely alleged.

Anyone running 6 businesses will have audits that result in 20k discrepancies once every 30 years if they do 5-10 million in annual business. This is very petty and not MATERIAL as you would know if you were truly a FORENCIC ACCOUNTANT. So why do you want to smear a good man's reputation, Experienced. You should be ashamed of yourself. Honestly! How many audits do you think Portillo's had the last 30 years? Dozens! Does that make him a man of less than an IMPECCABLE REPUTATION? Over a million Americans are auditied each year and additional taxes are assessed due to gray areas of the law. Are these Americans suddenly bad Americans because they got audited? How many times have you been audited, Experienced? Give us your real name. Don't be a coward. If you want to attack real private people you need to step up to the plate and show you are clean?

21. The NGM who had a 100k bond posted against 70k in taxes, interest and penalty he is alleged to owe due to a "business as usual audit" is costing us NOTHING....not a single penny. It is a 15 year old case that was rejected by the Illinios Supreme Court but could be before the US Supreme Court. My understanding is you can appeal State Supreme Court Decisions to US Supreme Court. I could be wrong as I am not an attorney but a stock trader.

22. However the loss due to drunken sailor risk by our Pension Managers is costing each taxpayer in Naperville $410 dollars. This is a current case less than 2 months old. We, the taxpayes, need to come up with this money.

23. City Officials, City Council Man and Police and Fire Fun Managers are screwing us....not the Napergate Man.

24. You obviously have an agenda, Experienced, to cover up for IMPROPRIETIES in City Hall to change the focus of this intense discussion. If not, what were the results of your meetings with City Officials regarding your allegations that they covered up the $20.5 million in pension fund losses from the taxapayers? Please tell us, Forensic Accountant Experienced. Or are you all talk and never even had a meeting with the dignitaries you were suppose to take with you to confront City Officials for their less than desirable disclosure methods. Oh, you are suddenly worried about an "audit issue" the Napergate Man had in Cook County 15 years ago and appealed to the Illinios Supreme Court, but you could care less about how the City of Naperville hid the 10 million 10 year costs of the Napergate Trials that really cost us taxpayers. Since you know this has not been accounted for, why are you worried about 70k in taxes that has a bond posted against it. There will be no loss to anyone there. And keep in mind the Napergate Man sued the state and not vice versa. He was not running. He was attacking with full force as he strongly felt the auditor wronged him. He had every right to sue the State of Illinois if he felt wronged. I am sure his attorneys would not pursue such a case if they did not feel it had merit. Too bad they may have lost it over a petty technicality involving US MAIL which in essence the JUDGE ruled is 100% reliable when all of us citizens know it is not 100% reliable. Unbelievable, if you ask me! You need to get off your computer and dig a little deeper into county records to understand these complex cases before you and/or your friend make wild libelous allegations of TAX EVASION when it was nothing more than disputing the results of a CIVIL AUDIT CASE. You and your internet blogging buddy should worry about a LIBEL SUIT coming your way from the Napergatge Man if he reads your false allegations. You apparently don't understand libel, Experienced as you don't understand FRACTIONS.

25. I guess when bloggers are checkmated they start looking for skeletons that don't exist in closets that are 15 years old.

26. I am really surprised not one blogger can debate the OPERATING BUDGET with me.

27. People come on here to debate and never take a few hours to visit a library or court house or view tax records readily available on the internet these days. They don't even have to get off their butts and they still won't research anything.

28. They come here to run their tongues and lips in as an UNINTELLIGENT MATTER as possible.

Finally, Moderator Magee, I would like you to stir this discussion about property taxes in the RIGHT DIRECTION. It is hard to checkmate these people if you let them talk about Mars and Venus instead of Earth.

Regarding this latest false and distorted allegation put forth by Experienced and his TAX EVASION BUDDY, both former Moderator Jim and Host Ted stated there was no place for such unsubstantiated allegations that attack a real person's credibility and reputation unfairly.

As a graduate of a university, Mr. Magee, I am sure you understand that every American has a right to appeal an IRS or ID of REVENUE audit he or she disagrees with. This is what makes this nation great. We have rights. A taxpayer like the NGM can not be accused of "egregious and wanting behavior" by Experienced for exercising his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to file a lawsuit against his GOVERNMENT for a disagreement regarding taxes. If that is not libel, I don't know what is. Also there was NO CIVIL PENALTY of 70k. That was the total of the taxes, and interest and penalties of over a dozen years. Most of it was INTEREST from so much time expiring. Why exaggerate, Experienced? Why ruin your credibility by not saying it as it is? Why the need to add salt and pepper and spin everything. Why answer a question from an uninformed blogger about TAX EVASION without refuting the false charge???

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This lawsuit was filed by the Napergate Man against the State of Illinois....not by the State of Illinois against the Napergate Man. He was not running from anyone....he was fighting what he perceived was an injustice from an unfair audit and due to a technicality between the prosecutor and his attorney, he NEVER had his tax case heard in any COURT OF LAW from Dupage up to the Supreme Court of Illinois. You could easily say he was RAILROADED by the SYSTEM which did not have the time of the day for him. Maybe Scott Huber is right when he says the judicial system can be unfair and not give you your day in court. Maybe that is why he is PROTESTING RELENTESSLY!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The higher courts simply agreed with the lower courts that if a letter is sent by US MAIL it is deemed received whether it was received or not. This in my opinion was a SAD DAY for American Justice. A very sad day for the American Taxpayer as it showed the power of corrupt goverment.

The government will take your tax money any way it can....even using silly technicalities. They can never get enough of your money because they need to milk every last penny to support this broken pension system that even the Judges and Prosecutors receive.

Kudos to the Napergate Man for having the bravery to take on the State of Illinois whether he loses or wins. He is truly a fighter for his rights and the rights of every taxpayer in America.

Hopefully, if this judgment has not been paid yet, this means this case has been appealed to the US Supreme Court and he can reverse the decision of the Illinois Supreme Court and bring a victory for the rights of all taxpayers in the USA. He is notorious for landmark court decisions.

I have not reviewed this case in over 2 years(the last time it surfaced on this blog site) so I am speaking from my memory which is usually good. I have no clue if he appealed it to the US Supreme Court but my instincts tell me he would based on his history of standing up for his rights and fighting corruption in government and the court system.

Thank you,

CIJ

========================================================================================================================================

PS. Would it not be wonderful Moderator Magee if just one blogger from the opposition knew how to respond properly. We have no shortage of attackers but not one intelligent blogger from the other side who can put a paragraph together without attacking or libeling including Experienced. How shameful of you, Experienced, to spin a simple audit and appeal case into an attempt to evade taxes and screw Naperville Taxpayers over a case in Cook County that has nothing to do with Napervillians and will not effect them in the least bit. And you should know Experienced when you appeal a civil judgment, bond most be posted for the amount or more, and the government can take its money from the bond when all appeals are exhausted. If they have not done so as you state(of course you have no credibility) it may be because he appealed it to the US Supreme Court.

I hope you don't apologize, the NGM finds out and sues you and we finally figure out who you are. I must admit I am curious since your hidden agenda makes absolutely no sense. Your credibility is no better than that Blogger who imagines seeing 5 NFD Ambulances and 2 L-W Ambulances each and every night he takes his son to Edwards after midnight. If that is not a FAIRY TALE, I don't know what is....lol....

Experienced on November 10, 2009 12:56 PM


Thanks Experienced. Good information to know. I wonder if anyone will run an ad in the Sun about this information?

I just got back from the gym, man Im tired now... Did someone just say something?

CIJ must be the angriest person in all of Naperville. CIJ seems to believe almost everyone posting here is out to crucify him, hang him, ambush him, and otherwise gang up on him. Could it be that many of the people that frequent the blog threads just dont care for the bombastic, over the top, style in which CIJ makes the most incredulous accusations? How CIJ sees conspiracies at every turn?

Give it a rest.

Anybody who's curious to learn more about Mr. Esmail's case can read the appellate court's decision here.

OOOOOOO, we hit a sore spot didn't we. We besmirched the name of the almighty Napergate Man. How dare we.

Of course, the only thing I did was quote the appellate decision. It was IDOR which after a contested hearing found that Esmail had WILFULLY failed to pay his taxes. It doesn't matter where the taxes originated, the state was still shorted and had to make up for the difference from you and me.

Now our hero used the word "penalty". I at least had the decency to put the word "civil" in front of it so as not to leave the impression that the penalty was not of a more serious nature. Was it egregious action on his part? What do you think the determination that his actions were of a wilful nature meant? One can try to spin it anyway you want but in the end after a contested hearing a person was found to have wilfully failed to pay taxes. That is how you get a penalty for being wilfull. That's how someone gets slapped with $50,000 added onto their original debt. That is how a corporate officer is found to be personally liable for a debt owed by his corporation that is still extant. NOTE: he didn't contest that the corporation owed the taxes in court; he only contested that he was held to be personally responsible as the sole officer of the corporation. Therefore, there is no question that the proper amount of taxes were not paid.

CIJ Wrote: "He was not running from anyone....he was fighting what he perceived was an injustice from an unfair audit and due to a technicality between the prosecutor and his attorney, he NEVER had his tax case heard in any COURT OF LAW from Dupage up to the Supreme Court of Illinois"


CIJ, How do you know what he was fighting, and what he Perceived? Has Mr. Esmail discussed his case with you? I wonder if the Napergate Man knows there is someone speaking for him about his business and his perceptions?

CIJ, You have claimed that you have never spoken with Mr. Esmail, now you are his spokesperson? This "technicality" by his attorneys, is this the same "army" of attorney's you have claimed that Esmail uses to fight his cases? If anything, Esmail has cause to sue his own high priced attorneys.

Now, let's talk about taxpayer action. Who on this thread and in this forum has taken the initiative to actually go and find out what's happening with our taxes? Who on this thread has taken the initiative to give up some anonymity and take the matter directly to city hall? Who took the initiative to forward that information to the major media source in our city in hopes to have the transgressions exposed?

Further, who has watched the process to make sure that at least the few of us who read this forum know the bottom line of what's being proposed and are aware of the coming events. I didn't see your post concerning today's notice of hearing and proposed levy. I did see your indignant post concerning your idol though.

On the other hand, who sits at his computer and complains about what is happening but refuses to take any actual action? Who wants to repeal home rule but refuses to circulate the petitions even after I gave him the wording and process? Who bemoans the fact that attorney fees have not been disclosed but refuses to go to city hall and ask for them even after I offered him the wording for a FOIA request that would get beyond the city accounting records?

What have I done? I am organizing a tax protest. There are currently 20 neighbors. We are going to protest our real estate taxes. 100% of our real estate taxes. It's now 7 1/2 months before the first installment is due and we have 20. Who knows how many there will be on June 1st. 20 times $650 is $13,000 that the city will not be able to spend until our complaints are heard by the courts--even if we lose. That could take a year or more. What if we double it by June 1st? What if we get 100 people? A 1,000? What if I take a page from your idol and place an add in the Sun telling people how to pay their taxes under protest and offer to them a website where they can download all the forms and just have to fill in their names, addresses and basic information? Going to a city council meeting as a single person is not necessarily the answer(but at least it's better than sitting at your computer complaining). It sounds like a small amount, but what if it takes hold. One has to make it hit them in the pocket book. We may have a city tax free year or a substantial savings while you will have to make up the difference in our savings.

So, go ahead. Keep on writing your long tomes. Piss and moan about how you are being ripped off. I challenge you again. Push away from your computer. Stop clipping your coupons. Get off your butt and do something. If you are going to be an investigative journalist, go out and investigate. You are but a commentator. You investigate nothing. You are but the sleazy Glenn Beck of Naperville.

From JQP's link which I read 2 years ago or so....

The motion was accompanied by a certificate of service indicating that service was made by regular mail on plaintiff's attorney on September 29, 2005. On November 3, 2005, the Department filed a second motion to dismiss for failure to post bond within 30 days after the filing of the Department's motion to dismiss. On November 30, 2005, plaintiff appeared in court and requested leave to post a cash bond instanter by cashier's check made payable to the clerk of the court in the amount of $100,000. Plaintiff alleged that he had not received the first motion; however, the trial court accepted the Department's representations that its attorney had in fact mailed the document on the date indicated on the certificate of service and thus had complied with the statute. The court granted the Department's motion to dismiss and entered judgment against plaintiff.


========================================================================================================================================

This case is very interesting. The State sends you a notice by regular mail and provides no proof that it delivered it other than its word.

Now you would think the State of Illinois would send such an important notice certified or registered if they want to to give a taxapayer the right to protest.

Now the Napergate Man puts up 100,000 dollars in cash so he can have his trial and protest his insignificant 20k in tax liabilities from 6 businesses that could generate anywhere from 5-10 million dollars.

This is a tiny liability. He could have paid it but my guess was he felt it was wrong and decided to protest at a greater cost than the tax liability is worth. Most probably because he is a MAN of PRINCIPLES

The system never gave him his day in court. Just as I recalled from my research 2 years ago when this case first surfaced.

IDOR always uses fancy words against any taxpayer. The exact words they used from a statute were,

"who wilfully fails to file the return or make the payment to the Department *** shall be personally liable' for the delinquency."

Notice the word OR in this sentence.......so they are saying he either wilfully failed or did not make a payment.

It sounds like they got him for not making a payment he was protesting as a result of his audit. Records at the court house indicate he paid all his sales taxes on a monthly basis. There was NO WILLFUL FAILURE to file a return. Just a discrepancy as I mentioned 2 years ago from my research and earlier from my memory.

In then end, he did not get his day in court, they took whatever they felt was owed to them from his 100k cashiers check, and let us hope he got some change back. I would guess they found a way to tack on another 28k in interest and penalties and take his entire 100k. Getting back money from the State is like trying to get your retainer back from your attorney. It never happens. So the taxpayers probably came out ahead and Experienced is worried about Cook County instead of the $20.5 million dollars lost right here in Naperville by the Pension Fund Managers who risked taxapyer money. Again this is costing each taxpayer $410 dollars. The NGM is costing us nothing.

No taxpayer got screwed....in Naperville or Anywhere.

If one does 5 million to 10 million dollars in business, he is probably paying 400,000 to 800,000 in sales tax. This 20k would be 2.5% to 5% of what he owed in one year. A tiny fraction of what he owed in 30 years. Maybe 1/100th of 1% at most. If only our Forensic Accountant knew what the word MATERIAL means in the accounting, financial and tax world. This audit was IMMATERIAL in the realm of things when put in perspective.

So what Expereinced wants you to believe is the Napergate Man is some kind of outlaw because a business of his was audited and they at best found a 20k error in one year and that he is a criminal of sorts. He is a man of bad character and reputation. Another blogger accused him of TAX EVASION which is a serious criminal charge jailable with 9 years. That blogger clearly labeled the Napergate Man a criminal wrongfully and maliciously and Experienced knows that and even responds to him instead of CONDEMNING HIM. If you are going to hang around people like this Experienced, you might as well join a gang.....seriously!

Who of us is perfect? None of us. Why should we hold the Napergate Man up to the standard of perfection. He has one of 6 businesses audited in 30 years of being in business and you guys want to make him a crook because he chose to dipute an audit?

Really shame on all you folks most of whom will also be audited in your lives. Let us see how many of you have the bravery and courage of the Napergate Man to fight your taxes if you feel they are unjust.

I proudly fought my real estate taxes 2 years ago and won.

If more people will fight their taxes like the Napergate Man, we could prevent government from constantly railroading us into submission with higher and higer taxes.

Thank you,

CIJ


========================================================================================================================================

PS. And how convenient you guys want to constantly change the subject so I can not hold the FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE city officials accountable. This case started in the mid-ninties. If it bothered you folks you should have brought it up then. Not now to change the subject and take the heat off city officials. Your tactics, antics and semantics will not work. They will delay those us who want to CHECKMATE CITY HALL for its wasteful spending habits but it won't stop us. This is just another distraction just like the insignificant HOMELESS STRIKER CASE. Anything to keep the attention off City Hall.

Please ask bloggers who do not want to blog on property taxes to blog about the Napergate Man on OPEN TOPIC, Moderator Magee. Thank you!

The reason it is relevant is because CIJ continues to hold the Napergate man up on a pedestal of all things righteous and just. He referenced the NGM numerous times on this posting topic as a "threat" to what is going to happen to the city of Naperville if it does not heed CIJ's warnings. The fact that someone has found some dirt on the NGM is relevant if for no other reason than to let everyone know that the NGM isn't as clean as CIJ always wants us to believe. Spin it however you want CIJ, but the NGM was found liable in court and "assessed a penalty against plaintiff in the amount of $72,039.34 for wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations".

I remember when the NGM was arrested downtown Naperville and later claimed that he never received the notice from the state that his drivers license had been suspended. I guess the NGM has had incredible bad luck with his mail, in two legal cases he claims to never receive notice, or his submission is lost in the mail! Of course all of this is based on what CIJ claims to know about the NGM, not on what Mr. Esmail has commented on.

Experienced,

Would you please remind me again what the basis of your tax protest is?

Tnanks.

-JQP

From my post in March:

Partial List of Librarian/Media Specialist pay. Names removed so as not to be personally inflammatory.

$76,607 Highlands Elem School
$79,705 Ellsworth Elem School
$85,358 Naperville North High School
$86,493 Jefferson Jr High School
$86,579 Naperville North High School
$87,165 Steeple Run Elem School
$87,426 Maplebrook Elem School
$91,050 Ranch View Elementary School
$95,854 Washington Jr High School
$99,011 Meadow Glens Elementary School
$101,228 Scott Elementary School
$101,240 Kingsley Elementary School
$101,266 Elmwood Elem School
$103,574 Naperville Central High School
$106,055 Prairie Elem School
$106,202 Mill Street Elem School
$107,177 Lincoln Jr High School
$108,671 Kennedy Junior High School

Let's compare to the post from Anonymous. "To find cost reductions at the library, the village hired a consulting firm that found Oak Brook's librarians are among the highest paid in the Chicago area, with department heads making $29 to $39 an hour."

I guess this answers my question back then about what librarians make. At this point, I would not be so concerned about the Naperville Libraries as I would about D203's tax chunk.

e^(i*pi)

By John Q. Public on November 10, 2009 9:02 PM
Experienced,

Would you please remind me again what the basis of your tax protest is?
-------------------------------------------

There are basic requirements for the annual budget set forth by statute and the tax levy derived therefrom. The budget is to give at least 3 years of numbers--one actual, one at least estimated and one proposed. The budget is to give those numbers and results for line items as set forth by the state. Failure to do so can result in the levy being invalid. You can't levy for what you haven't budgeted. You can't spend what you haven't properly budgeted.

The final budget adopted by the city and attached to the ordinance filed with the county clerks is woefully inadequate. Any levy based thereon in my opinion will be invalid. Besides the total lack of specificity in the final document, it failed even in it's drafts and workpapers to disclose the known losses in the pension plans. It appeared that the plans increased in assets instead of losing about $10 million in each. They did not comply with state requirements or GASB.

We hope to start with the grass roots of the city. Hopefully our message will be heard by large taxpayers like Nalco and Alcatel which would really cripple the city should they protest.

Of course, I am but a mouth piece for the city. Don't you know that I actually work in the city legal department. My job is to deflect attention away from our hero's arguments. Heaven forbid he might get off of his butt and actually do something besides piss and moan all the time.

e^(i*pi),

Sorry I misinterpreted your post about the NGM's alleged 9-0 Supreme Court victories. CIJ indicates his source is the Napergate ads, which are not necessarily...um...authoritative.

-JQP

By handle with care on November 10, 2009 8:04 PM
The reason it is relevant is because CIJ continues to hold the Napergate man up on a pedestal of all things righteous and just

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Napergate Man deserves to be held on a pedestal. Here, since you folks opened the subject, you find a very busy man running 6 businesses in 4 different fields and managing to pump out Napergate ad after Napergate nand never once mentioning his personal battles against government authorities.

Here is a principled man who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of his personal money to help taxpayers in Naperville hold their government responsible while people like you and I spend significant time keyboarding. Here is a guy 10 times as busy as US who makes time for US and helped us fight out-of-control government.

He had one business in Cook County and 5 probably in Dupage. This case if you study its roots was about which items are high tax and which items are low tax. Cook County being so different in sales taxation than Dupage it is possible an employee made a mistake in pricing that he was not even aware of. How could the Napergate Man possibly have a chokehold on 6 business in 4 different fields in 2 counties especially since we all knew of his extracurricular political activities? It is almost impossible. He had to count on his help to some extent.

Anyone who is in business should know when you make a mistake, the government always accuses you of deliberate action. They don't send IRS agents to your home with a dozen roses...lol..While I don't know all the fine details despite reseaching this case extensively 2 years ago, it could simply be he did not feel the accusation was appropriate and put up 100k to fight 20k in taxes. I doubt it would have been about 20k with him since he donated that sum times 10 in Napergate ads.

Once again you distort by saying they assessed a penalty of $72,000 against him. It was a $20,000 case in which interest and penalties accumulated each passing month. These are automatic interest and penalties and not as a result of a Judges decision who did not even look at the tax case. So how could she have ruled willful conduct or imposed a $72,000 civil penalty....lol... She did not. You folks made that up. It really shows how ignorant many of you bloggers are that you can not even read a legal case and comprehend it.

That is how the government operates if they audit you and have a tax dispute with you they will tack AUTOMATIC interest and penalty charges against you until you pay. They don't care if you are appealing or suing. That is why most people settle very quickly even though they may be innocent.

The Napergate Man will always remain iconic. If he had one tax dispute or even 2 in running 6 businesses over a 30 year period that does not take anything away from his good deeds to Napervillians. NO one ever said he was a SAINT or ANGEL. Only that he worked his butt off to help Napervillians fight their government in controlling waste and keeping taxes affordable.

He shows you how much potential a human being has if he applies effort and utilizes his time properly and carefully.

Most of us can't make time to go the bathroom and here is a man fighting the tax man, fighting City Government, raising kids, and running 6 businesses in 4 fields. Of course, he is going to make mistakes if he stretches himself as thin as he had himself stretched.

I think the Judge screwed him not giving him his day in court. It were the attorneys that did not receive notices and claimed not to receive notices and probably did not. If an attorney lies, he loses his license to practice law. Why would they lie? The Napergate Man appeared ready to fight and post a larger amount than required and apparently did with a 100k cashiers check. And Experienced wants you to believe that you are paying higher taxes because of a problem he had in another county that does not affect us NAPERVILLIANS. He was fighting for his legitimate rights...not EVADING TAXES. The money was offered in advance for Heaven's Sake. Why distort, Experienced? How does that help your credibility. You obviously knew he posted the money in advance since you read the case.

This is what you said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"This was money that he failed to pay the city and state which means that our taxes had to make up the difference for his failure to pay." (Experienced)

This is what you said despite having full knowledge he ended up paying 3.5 times what he owed due to automatic interest and penalty charges...these penalty charges being automatic and not from a JUDGE'S ruling who never even looked at the case. Who are you trying to kid, Experienced? And we all know you are a smart man who should know how to read these cases.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


It seems to me the state was afraid of him and fought hard with a techniclatly that they created to keep him from having his day in court. Keep in mind the prosecutor oversleeps and never shows up in court and the Judge lets its slide. His attorneys do not receive a letter in regular mail and the judge brings the gavel down on him.
Why would anyone be surprised they did not send proper notice, since they can win on a technicality if the judge bites on this possible falsification and she in fact did BITE.

That is justice in Dupage for you. This is the same court system that convicted 3 Hispanics in the Nicarico Case over and over again despite their innocence.

If you were a small businessman or woman and owned one business and the government came down on you like this you would be destroyed and out of business. This could be what happened to Mr. Huber.

Thankfully, some peole like the Napergate Man have deep pockets due to long term business success and can fight government and survive. Most of you bloggers here, probably could not.

I think a Court system that allows someoone to lose on a minor technicality should be investigated for corruption. Dupage County has been known to be corrupt for decades. This case confirms to me it is very corrupt.

Anyone who goes to court knows that in 99% of the cases, you do not get your day in court. They find a way to dismiss it on a technicality or force you into an undesirable settlement.

The stuff you guys see on TV with Judges and Juries rarely ever happens in real life. If they want you to settle and you refuse, the judge will unload his or her wrath on you.

The Napergate Man brought his $100,000 bank cashiers check and did not want to settle. The Judge decided the US POST OFFICE has 100% delivery on time and nailed the Napergate Man. I posted the paragraph right from the case that JQP provied the link to. Was not aware the case was on the internet as I went to court 2 years ago to review it. You would think the Judge would have asked the State Prosecutor if he tried to call or send a second notice. Why he did not send it registered or certified to prove he sent the notice?

If you bloggers feel this system of justice is fair, I hope it one day bites you as it bit the Napergate Man.

You would think bloggers like John Q. Public and Experienced who pretend to be advocates for the people would at a minimum demand a certified letter with a return signature required in a case like this or any court case.

I really commend the Napergate Man for fighting for his rights at every avenue of the way. The bottom line is he fights and fights hard. No one ever said, you will win all your cases in a court of law if you fight.

Any attorney will tell you going to court is like playing Russian Roulette. I guess the Napergate Man believed in principal and fought for principals regardless of cost.

To me that is the sign of a truly ICONIC HERO!

It seems to me some of you folks are more jealous of his efforts to help instead of being appreciative for doing what peoople like Experienced are attempting to do.

Experienced is having a hard time getting 20 people together. The Napergate Man had no trouble getting groups of 400 to go to City Hall with him or to a Protest Site. He had no trouble getting 3500 signatures on petitions twice to put pressure on government.

Experienced, if anyone should know how remarkable a feat like this truly is. I commend him for trying. On the other hand what has John Q. Public ever done for the PUBLIC....NOTHING.....ABLOLUTELY NOTHING but run his tongue and lips and attack those who try to change goverment.

Thank you,

CIJ

My My My. How dare we counter the never ending adulation of Mr. Esmail by our hero. Even though an administrative law judge found that he "wilfully [failed] to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act", our hero wants us to believe that the man walks on water. One does not become personally liable for the tax debts of one's corporation because an employee possibly "made a mistake in pricing". It takes wilful action for that to happen. The state of Illinois so found. Once the finding is made, the state then imposes a civil "penalty" upon the person responsible to pay the tax, penalties and interest.

And, let's not be mistaken, these were not taxes from 2007 when the appellate court case was filed. These were taxes that went unpaid since "the mid nineties" - at least 10 years by the time it reached the court in Elgin. No matter what our hero tries to make us believe, this was money that was meant to operate state government. There is no system in Illinois that sales tax collected within a county is only expended in that county. Once the money is collected it goes into the "big pot" and is expended throughout the state.

Therefore, Extra Value liquors failed to pay to the state money that was expected to be received in the mid nineties. He only tried to pay the money when his back was to the wall and was being kicked out of court. At any time during the collection process, Mr. Esmail and his corporation could have deposited the amount in question with the state and stopped any further penalties and interest from accruing while the matter winded thru hearings and courts, but they chose not to.

Of course, it's a big conspiracy. The whole judicial system of Illinois is in on it. The Illinois judicial system has been operating for almost 200 years on the system of certification of mailing by attorneys. But our hero's idol was being picked on. Our hero conveniently, however, fails to state that the act itself requires that a bond be posted. Mr. Esmail through his attorneys should have done so soon after his complaint for review was filed--even if the state didn't move for dismissal.

What all of this comes down to is this: every time our hero throws Mr. Esmail in our faces, I, for one, will remind everyone what the state of Illinois found concerning this man and his business. I will do so by quoting what Justice Kapala said. It is only relevant if our hero brings up the subject. I have now completed what I have to say unless our hero brings it up again. If our hero doesn't want to be reminded of the state findings, he shouldn't bring up Mr. Esmail again. The choice is his.

Again, I remind everyone as I did yesterday morning that the hearing on the tax levy is next Tuesday, Nov. 17th. Further, I remind everyone that the amount the city is seeking to levy is not only more than the city collected last year but is more than the city said it needed last Spring during a contested municipal election.

Let me see if I can sum up CIJ's last 50,000 words on FF and PO staffing. I am not claiming these to be true statements, but I am trying to see if I can summarize.

1) There may be a role to decrease FF staffing during times when the likelihood of a severe event is low. These same times correspond to when there is little traffic on the streets so ambulances and fire trucks can travel longer distances in a shorter time.

2) There appears to be overstaffing of the downtown district with police officers during the summer. The school police are apparently used downtown during the summer, but are not used during the fall and spring when the weather is nice and similar numbers of people are roaming the downtown district.

I would like to hear some knowledgeable thoughts on these two ideas. It may be that FF staffing is already decreased at night during the week. It may be that police staffing is the same throughout the year downtown. But these two ideas appear on the surface to be reasonable suggestions for cutting dollars from the budget.

handle: The entire concept of pensions seems to be placing a severe drag on many communities and states. I cannot imagine there is a call to stop the pensions of people who have earned them, but there should be a call to alter future pension systems starting as soon as possible.

-1

It seems to me that for a man with the extensive experience in retail businesses that the Napergate Man has and had, keeping track of and paying sales taxes should be a no-brainer.

Plaintiff was held personally liable for the tax delinquency, pursuant to section 3--7 of the Uniform Penalty and Interest Act (UPI Act) (35 ILCS 735/3--7 (West 2004)). Section 3--7 of the UPI Act provides that any corporate officer who is responsible for "filing returns and making payment of the amount of any trust tax" or make the payment to the Department *** shall be personally liable" for the delinquency. 35 ILCS
735/3--7(a) (West 2004).


========================================================================================================================================


It is very easy to distort when you only use part of the OR statute. I used the other part of the OR here and it suddenly sounds very different.

I am sure the OR part that I am using applies to this specific case and not the OR part you folks are using.

Instead of being jealous of the Napergate Man because you are incapable of following in his big footpaths, respect his legacy and try to extend it, Experienced.

You can never destroy the LEGACY of an ICONIC MAN no matter how hard you try.

If you don't want to continue his LEGACY as I would like, start your own LEGACY. But don't shamelessly attack the LEGACY of a TRUE NAPERVILLE HERO who won National Awards like the Kylix Trophy for his efforts regarding responsible drinking.

Also, don't take a CHEAP SHOT against the legacy of a retired man who contributed more than anyone else in the history of Naperville when it comes to holding FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE.

I am really surprised, Experienced, that you would attack a MAN so maliciously with distortions and half truths especially in your first post that came out of nowhere. Read it again.


========================================================================================================================================

*Exaggeration such as saying stores in the PLURAL instead of ONE SINGLE store.

*Pretending the store was in Naperville when it was clearly not.

*Pretending City Residents taxes would be affected when the store was not even in Dupage County.

*Pretending taxpayers were shorted while the bond money was POSTED IN a $100,000 CASHIERS CHECK waiting for all appeals to be exhausted.

*Not noting that this case MAY be before the US Supreme Court since it appears the check MAY have not been cashed yet...not sure on this one but researching it.!

*Pretending that the Supreme Court did not hear it because it was so "wanting" when the whole case they reviewed was strictly over a technicality of whether a notice in the US MAIL was received by the NGM's attorneys even though it was only sent in regular mail.

*Pretending he was held personally liable because the case was so "egregious" when it was because the store was sold in 2000 and had a new owner and the old business corporation could no longer be held liable as it no longer existed....lol...

Boy, I thought JQP, could dice, slice, mince and spin. Where do you guys exchange notes?


========================================================================================================================================

Bringing up a case that was discussed here intensely 2 years ago and claiming you never heard about it, to ignite an old fire that was put out is really SHAMELESS and DISGUSTING. Forget about a BIG REPEAT! I love how bloggers claim I REPEAT when they dig stuff out of moth balls to REPEAT...lol...!

I have no respect for you anymore, FORENSIC ACCOUNTANT EXPERIENCED.

Digging 15 year old mud on a man who did more for this town, as far as holding government accountable and responsible, than anyone else in its history is really despicable.

Somehow, I feel you are trying to play the role of the next Napergate Man. You want to destroy the old Napergate Man and be the new Napergate Man. You appear very jealous of his iconic and heroic accomplishments. You seem to be a WANNA BEE NAPERGATE MAN. Sorry, but your lack of credibility would never allow you to even be the TOWN CLOWN in the next CIRCUS.

You would be much wiser to honor his LEGACY and try to build on it.....instead of attempting to destroy it and build your own LEGACY. You really seem like a man of extreme low self-esteem possessed with an inferior complex to attack a man who is no longer involved in politics and apparently not around to defend himself. Is that how you honor LEGACIES, Experienced? Shame on you!

I did not realize that you could have such a HIDDEN AGENDA with such MALICIOUS INTENT based on a very very sick EGO that you apparently may POSSESS.....sicker than even John Q. Public's who is Mr. PUBLIC OFFICIAL in disguise the way he defends our FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE CITY OFFICIALS.

Thank you,

CIG


****************************************************************************************************************************************

PS. And don't worry about me. I am already planning our 2nd April 15 Tax Protest at City Hall. We had a few hundred last year and we hope to double our protesters next year. I am one of the organizers but have chosen to remain anonymous by not being the FRONT PERSON for very good reasons. I don't believe you were there Experienced. But Doug Krause was there speaking against higher taxes and voted to raise them. I guarantee you he will not be allowed to speak at our rally next year. I do have some influence at this rally. MARK MY WORDS!

========================================================================================================================================

I am also monitoring the EMERGENCY ROOM at Edward's daily to prove that some cuts can be made in the FD especially between 12am to 6am. (Another visit there yesterday at 4:40 pm showed one municipality ambulance # M9 in the Bay and one Superior coming while another Superior was leaving in the Non-Emergency Parking Area for ambulances at the WEST END....could not identify if M9 was a Naperville Ambulance but if it was it would be my first sighting of a NFD ambulance there in 13 visits this week....OMG...how busy they are that they can not help us with some cuts to eliminate a $14.1 million operating budget deficit.

You would think we were in a war zone the way bloggers falsely described activity at Edward's Emergency. We are not in Afghanistan folks...trust me....or go any time to verify what I am saying if you are CAPABLE OF TELLING THE TRUTH.

========================================================================================================================================

If you don't think this is a good thing you may not only be jealous of the NAPERGATE MAN but jealous of me CITIZEN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST who works his/her/its butt off to expose improprieties at City Hall. I have limited time and I am doing what I can. I don't have any inferior complex syndromes since I know I don't have abilities, talents and organizational skills like the Napergate Man. Very few people do. I just try my best to learn from his EXTRAORDINARY ACCOMPLISHMENTS by studying his history through lots of time-consuming research.

IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE CAN GET THE NAPERGATE MAN TO BE OUR FEATURED SPEAKER BUT THAT WOULD BE LIKE A DREAM COMING TRUE. LITTLE DOUBT HE WOULD DRAW HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS EVEN THOUGH HE HAS BEEN RETIRED FOR 8 YEARS.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 11, 2009 11:14 AM
Plaintiff was held personally liable for the tax delinquency, pursuant to section 3--7 of the Uniform Penalty and Interest Act (UPI Act) (35 ILCS 735/3--7 (West 2004)). Section 3--7 of the UPI Act provides that any corporate officer who is responsible for "filing returns and making payment of the amount of any trust tax" or make the payment to the Department *** shall be personally liable" for the delinquency. 35 ILCS
735/3--7(a) (West 2004).
---------------------------------------

Of course our hero is forgetting that there was a specific finding by the state as to what part of the statute was violated by Mr. Esmail and his corporation. Justice Kapala set forth with particularity that finding:

"The Illinois Department of Revenue (the Department) assessed a penalty against plaintiff in the amount of $72,039.34 for wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act (Retailer's Act) (35 ILCS 120/1 et seq. (West 2004))."

So we don't have to guess what part of the statute was wilfully violated by Mr. Esmail. It was the part for wilfully failing to pay the tax.

Put him on a pedestal if you must. He still wilfully failed to pay his taxes to the state. Because he didn't, the state did not have that money to spend on the citizens of the state for over 10 years. That included people in the city of Naperville. He took that money out of our pockets. Again note, that he didn't appeal that the corporate business owed the money. He only appealed his own liability.

Experienced,

Don't worry about what the Judges said or did not say. Everyone can read their rulings or non-rulings.

None of the Judges ruled on the tax matter....none of them even looked at it.

They are just reciting what the IDOR said who happens to be the DEFENDENT in the case.

That is what happens when a case is decided by procedural error due to a technicality of a letter not being received through US MAIL

If I were you, Experienced, I would worry about my points below in which you libeled the Napergate Man. You should be a MAN and RETRACT your FALSE COMMENTS.


========================================================================================================================================

*Exaggeration such as saying stores in the PLURAL instead of ONE SINGLE store.

*Pretending the store was in Naperville when it was clearly not.

*Pretending City Residents taxes would be affected when the store was not even in Dupage County.

*Pretending taxpayers were shorted while the bond money was POSTED IN a $100,000 CASHIERS CHECK waiting for all appeals to be exhausted.

*Pretending there was a special CIVIL PENALTY when the only penalites are those that accrued at the end of each month along with the interest which is typical in all audit tax cases where there is a dispute. Based on 14 years passing, most of what he owes is probably AUTOMATIC COMPUTER GENERATED penalty and interest. He could have only owed a few thousand dollars in actual tax. The formula of 72 is powerful in these tax cases.

*Not noting that this case MAY be before the US Supreme Court since it appears the bank cashiers check MAY have not been cashed yet...not sure on this one but researching it!

*Pretending that the Supreme Court did not hear it because it was so "wanting" when the whole case they reviewed was strictly over a technicality of whether a notice in the US MAIL was received by the NGM's attorneys even though it was only sent in regular mail.

*Pretending he was held personally liable because the case was so "egregious" when it was because the store was sold in 2000 and had a new owner and the old business corporation could no longer be held liable as it no longer existed....lol...

*You should also know that the IDOR holds anyone who obtains a sales tax number personally liable even if you set up a corporation. You are required to sign documents that you are personally liable before they issue you your sales tax number.

Boy, I thought JQP, could dice, slice, mince and spin. Where do you guys exchange notes?

========================================================================================================================================

I don't usually repeat myself or copy and paste but my computer reset and destroyed a detailed post I wrote in response to your earlier post. It would have awoken you out of your coma.

Anyway, Experienced I see you are toning down fearing a libel lawsuit against you from the Napergate Man.

Just remember he is a PRIVATE CITIZEN who in no way did anything to you and you maliciously attacked him with intent to harm his GOOD reputation and character. Since he is a REAL PERSON who owns businesses in town, he should easily be able to prove damages against you which is a requirement for libel. Remember he is not a meaningless Anonymous blogger like you and I, where there is no damage and you can never prove libel.

Keep running you tongue, lips and mouth and let us see in what court room you will end up in.

CIJ

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 11, 2009 2:49 PM

And, of course, nothing of that long tome changes the fact that he "wilfully [failed] to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act".

And remember everyone, the hearing on the tax levy is next Tuesday at 7pm. If you don't go, don't complain.

Reading through this topic, I have seen repeated references toward the 'Napergate Man' will glowing accolades and adulation. Some of the shameful fawning made me wonder if this 'Napergate Man' and CIJ could be one and the same, or if CIJ aspires to reach what she believes to be the cream of the crop's level.

Especially with comments like this:
rong>

Or, maybe it's just that CIJ was talking to herself and absentmindedly typed it out and submitted it to Potluck. It's probably very easy to lose track of your cast of characters when they're running amock like they do.

Do us all a favor CIJ- study the Napergate Man all you want, but admire him in private.

No one cares anything about him except as you continually bring him up - over and over and over and over again. If you didn't mention him, no one else would either.

If you feel so strongly about him, why not approach him and attempt to recruit him out of his "retirement". My guess is he wouldn't want any part of you or your shenanigans. Or, are you too afraid that he might tell you to get lost.

CIJ--fear a libel lawsuit from Mr. Esmail????? That's laughable, coming from you.

CIJ, he is not here, has never been here, has never come on to support your coveting lust and love for all things Napergate Man all these years and has never even, ever ever ever acknowledged your fascination and attempt to be in his inner circle, or to frankly be him. You become a barnacle on anyone that seems to be a vessel for your message, heaven forbid you would do anything in the physical world to put your message into action, you would rather be a parasite on other's good names (Scott Huber...the dance acadamy that would prefer not to be dragged on here while having your pot smoking daughter outed as a member...BHO!)

You place way, way way too much importance on this blog.

I'm sure if Mr. Esmail did observe what your antics are here, he like Chris would never ever want to be mentioned or have their names used in your rants. Yes, CIJ...Mr. Esmail is a private citizen, and would be extremely anonymous by this time if it wasn't for your adoration and support and your dragging him through the mud here.

By the way--not receiving mail never ever ever gets one out of legal obligations. Try telling the DMV that you have not renewed a license, sticker because you didn't receive the renewal in the mail. Try telling the IRS that you didn't respond to their request because you didn't receive the notice in the mail. Try telling the county that you didn't renew your pet's license because you didn't receive notice in the mail. Try keeping your home after not paying property taxes because the bill was lost in the mail. Let me know how it goes!

CSI

Isnt it funny how one person can ruin so much? Get your own website. I know why you operate in the shadows as a tea party organizer... If, and they probably do know; just how unstable you are, they would not want you around. You support Obama as I have read in the past, yet you are a big supporter of the Tea Party? Are you alittle confused yet again?

By Anonymous on November 11, 2009 4:50 PM

By the way--not receiving mail never ever ever gets one out of legal obligations. Try telling the IRS that you didn't respond to their request because you didn't receive the notice in the mail. Try keeping your home after not paying property taxes because the bill was lost in the mail. Let me know how it goes!


========================================================================================================================================

1. The IRS will follow regular mail by CERTIFIED MAIL always if you do not respond. That is the proper procedure and should be the procedure that Dupage Judges acknowledge. Not a 200 year old procedure that does not fit this modern age and time.

2. It was attorneys who claimed they never received a notice. Licensed attorneys in the State of Illinos who could be disbarred if they were lying. This is all contained in the case that JQP posted a link to.

3. One knows that your property taxes are due on June 1 and Sept 1 or the Monday after if that date falls on a weekends. Over 40 years and due to owning more than one property in town, it has occurred that the mail failed me but of course common sense would indicate that I need to look into and did. You will not lose your home before getting a certified letter. I also believe a public notice in a newspaper has to be posted if they can not reach you by certified or registered mail. That is how the IDOR should operate.

4. I think in this case there was an audit of a store regarding what items should be low tax and what items should be high tax in which the NGM appears to have cooperated. A discrepancy was found. He did not agree with it. The state does have a right to hold him corporately and personally responsible if he collected low tax instead of high tax on an item accidentally or wrongfully. In a case like this even though you never collected the tax from the consumer, you are liable and MUST pay it even if it was a MISTAKE.
To be personally liabe you do not have to be egregious, wanting or have committed a wilful act. Honestly, Experienced does not know what he is talking about. Forensic Accountants usually have their heads buried in sands of numbers, they usually can not see the overall picture. And remember Experienced is a lawyer who chose not to practice law. That should tell you something about his KNOWLEDGE of the LAW.

5. The IDOR claims to have sent a letter giving him or his attorneys ONLY 20 days to act including posting a significant bond.

6. Now why would they not act if they received notice and FORFIET all their rights. Why would attorneys subject themselves to a possible lawsuit from the Napergate Man for gross negligence. He apparently according to court records was being represented by attorneys who probably would like to act as this is how they make a living. I would have to speculate, if the NGM did not believe that his attorneys did not receive notice, I have to believe he would have acted against his own attorneys and sued them. History, shows he is that kind of person...NO NONSENSE.

7. This was a one time occurence. Your deadlines are based on anothers actions. If another does not act you can not anticipate what he or she is doing. For example if you are playing soccer should you keep kicking air before before your opponent finally kicks the ball.

8. When I went to Dupage 2 years ago to study this case when it first flared up by possibly another blogger, I reviewed all the court records and noticed that the Prosecutor who alleges he sent this letter overslept and never showed up to a hearing in this specific case. The Judge gave him a bye for I believe forgetting to set his alarm clock or something of that nature. It is all in the records in Dupage. The records will show the Judge awarded a continuance that day even though the prosecutor was not even there to ask for one....lol....if that is not IMPROPER. (If you forget to set your alarm clock before an important court date, you could easily forget to MAIL a letter....am I the only one with logic and common sense on this blog site.)

9. If the Judge does not dismiss a case because a proseuctor oversleeps, than she should not dismiss a case if an attorney(s) does not get a letter. It seems like so many bloggers on this site are so full of hate that they lost all rationality. That is what HATE will do.

10. Having been to court many times in my life as I have mentioned before, the courts are simply overwhelmed with cases. The judges are very busy. They are years behind. What I see happening is a Judge not wanting to hear a complicated boring numbers case because she is extremely busy and disposing it on a technicality. Many judges do not understand accounting and would rather not deal with it. She found a way not to deal with her case....a procedural error as Experienced correctly pointed out before beginning to contadict himself under fire and claiming Judges made rulings of wilfull misconduct....lol...no Judge or Appellate Judge made that ruling. That ruling that also contained the words "OR PAY A TAX LIABILITY or something like that," was made by the IDOR, the Defendent in this case. Let us get the facts straight, Experienced. And yes, the NGM beroght suit in this case and not the IDOR.

11. Unless you have been to Dupage County and had court cases you would not know what I am talking about. Keep in mind this is the Judicial system that kept convicting the Nicarico 3 over and over again with different judges. This is the system that had the power to brainwash dozens of jurors in each Nicarico Trial to see it their way. This court system is not PERFECT. It can tarnish innocent peoples characters and reputations and in fact has as noted in the above case.

12. A person should not be denied his rights because he did not get a letter. We are not talking about a car license sticker where if you did not get notice a friendly officer will most likely award you professional courtesy and ask you to get it ASAP. Worse case scnenario if you don't get PC, you get a 75 dollar ticket.

========================================================================================================================================

It just appears to me from reading the case and the back-up records in Dupage County that the state wanted to avoid a trial and pull a fast one. They succeeded. They are broke and will employ any means to collect taxes fairly or unfairly.

No Judge, Appellate Judge or Supreme Court Judge ruled on this case. They all agreed it should be dismissed because the Napergate Man's attorneys did not respond in 20 days and post a significant bond.

If you don't have CASH as the NGM apparently does, you need to obtain a surety bond or self-impose a lien on your home or business. This takes take and can not be done in days.

Anyway for all of you folks who want to tarnish the character and reputation of a good man over a technicality, I say to all of you, you should be ASHAMED of yourselves. It appears you are hotile hateful individuals who will attack even a retired PRIVATE citizen.

The NGM never started up with you folks and you maliciously attacked him with INTENT to destroy his character and reputation.

I have always discussed topics here and instead of you attacking my MESSAGE, you attacked the MESSENGER.

I know you don't like your name mentioned, Moderator, but let me say you have YOUR PROOF finally.

The proof of a pit bull gang mentality on your blog site that will ATTACK UNPROVOKED. Just like pit bulls. How can you finally not see what I have been talking about. It is very CLEAR just like CRYSTAL.

While they blamed me in the past for provoking these attacks because I counter-attacked, what is their defense this time against a RETIRED PRIVATE CITIZEN who has not utttered a word in 8 years???
Who has not been seen at any public event in 8 years? Who some say lives in Arizona?

I hope Napergatian Kevin is watching this. He had doubts as to who starts these attacks. I hope he can now witness these attacks are not even PROVOKED. Hopefully, he is watching and will speak up now that we UNCOVERED the SMOKE.

The PROOF is FINALLY in the pudding.


========================================================================================================================================

Former Moderator Jim and former Moderator Ted stopped this kind of attack last time knowing it was unconsionable and despicable. They realized it involved a PRIVATE CITIZEN. NOt a public official or insignificant blogger as we mostly all are. Moderator Jim raised the possibility of libel issues and felt an obigation to protect his newspaper from any libel. Please review if you don't believe me.


========================================================================================================================================

Moderator Magee has not been as firm. But he stated very clearly that the Napergate Man has nothing to do regarding why property taxes are being raised in Naperville. He said it is OFF TOPIC. No one listened or respected the Moderator as usual.

None of you pit bulls formerly Kindergarten Children will not listen or heed any advice.....all you care is about ENRICHING your selves at TAXPAYER EXPENSE while occassionally giving lip service to pretend you are on the right side of tax issues.

I say keeping doing what you have to do.

The Napergate Man has a proven record in fighting City Hall, fighting government waste, fighting higher taxes, orgainizing protests both on the streets and in City Chambers and developing a very large grass root movement. It appears to me that Experienced is clearly jealous of his success and ICONIC LEGACY and upset with his frustrating failures to get his own grass roots moverment going through out Naperville. He is even thinking of running Napergate Style ads but can not stand the creator of this kind of effective advertising to rally the troops. Amazing you ask me. It appears to me that he is a man with low self esteem who wants to be like the Napergate Man. Only a man with an INFERIOR COMPLEX would attack a MAN with an impeccable character and reputation to attempt to build a LEGACY for himself. That is not a way to build a LEGACY and your REPUTATION, Experienced. That is as sick as it gets on this blog site.

All I have been saying is we have to learn from the NGM's tactics to strenghten our resolve to take on City Hall.

It is like someone saying we can not use Ghandi's peaceful protest tactices because I discovered he once spanked his child....or that he had a dispute with his wife and divorced her. Let us begin bashing Ghandi and all those who use his peaceful protest tactics throughout the world. NONSENSE! Maybe we shold bash Nelson Mandela because he was wrongfully lynched and framed and spent 27 years in jail after a CONVICTION by a JUDGE....lol...

I hope you all see my point and get back on subject.

Yes, I have a hero and have a right to praise my hero especially when the work some of us are trying to do is the same work he tried to do. He obviously did it better and my MESSAGE is simply we need to study him and try to do it better.

We are a very sleepy town since the Napergate Man retired. Let us face it. When I watched the last City Council meeting only one resident walked up to the podium and spoke against higher property taxes. He was very eloquent and composed by the way. I was very impressed. City Officials were not even phased and pretty much ignored him

This method does not work. When the Napergate Man took hundreds to City Hall the atmosphere was very different. It was charged with electricity. City Council Members were listening. They were REVERSING the prior sessions vote. When he and his supporters thought it was resolved and did not show up, the City Council reversed itself for the Brestal Law Firm. This kept happening over and over again until the City Council succumbed since they knew the Napergate Man and his supporters were not going away. They showed STRONG RESISTANCE to IMPROPRIETIES as we need to be doing.

The Napergate Man and his Napergatian followers were persistent, steadfast and determined. The City Council finally surrendered and did not put a gas station in the middle of a subdivision.

Residents from over a dozen subdivision joined the Napergate Man and stopped commercial encroahment north of Hobson Rd. To this day not one commercial development exists on the north side of Hobson...over a dozen years later.

The Brestal Law Firm had no respect for the residents. They wanted to rezone all this land to commercial and enrich the landowners. They did not care about the beauty of Hobson Road as a residential area that was as scenic as one can imagine.

Anyway, we must learn from these Ghandi-Style tactics if you are offended if I call them Napergate-Style tactics.

Finally, praise whomever you want. You are entitled to have your heros. Praise Mayor Pradel.....you will never see me attack his reputation and character in a personal way because I disagree with him. I will ATTACK HIS VOTE THOUGH IF I DISAGREE WITH IT.

Thank you,

CIJ

I think CIJ has hit the nail on the head with monitoring the NFD. With that in mind, I went by station 10 today. It appears to be coming along nicely. I think I even saw some on duty firemen practicing cooking gourmet meals, watching tv, and sleeping. It looked like they may have even been tailgating on one of the unneeded ambulances...

Fire Fighters, Fire Fighter Friends and/or Fire Fighter Supporters,

========================================================================================================================================

I visited Edward's Emergency while walking my dog. At 10:59pm I saw a Superior Ambulance parked in the west non-emergency parking area waiting to take its nursing patient back home. I also saw an M3 Ambulance in the Bay Area with all its doors open. Since the writing identifying the ambulance is on the doors, I could not identify which municipality it is from. The other day I saw an M9 ambulance. I am guessing these ambulances are from Naperville but I can not be sure since I recall the guy who said he sees 5 NFDs at a time each time he was there mentioning numbers like M200, M222 or something like that. In a few days, hopefully an M Series Ambulance will have its doors closed and I can identify it.

At 11:24pm while driving to get a cup of coffee I saw ONE ambulance in the Bay. I could not identify from Washington if this was the same amublance or a different one. I could not see the West Parking Area while driving on Washington so I do not know if the Superior Ambulance there left or if a new one came in with a nursing care patient. It seems like those 4 spots on the West Side are designated for non-emergency trips by private ambulances.


========================================================================================================================================

Those were my 14th and 15th visits. I will continue making them for a while just to prove that there are people on this blog site who will twist the facts in order to protect their Big Fat Salaries, Big Fat Pensions and Bigger and Fatter Benefits or those of their relatives and friends. It is boring work but it must be done to keep bloggers truthful on this blog site. Blatantly being untruthful on this Blog Site will not be tolerated if I can help it.

I am not surprised not one person has questioned this blogger who stated repeatedly he sees a MINIMUM of 5 NFD ambulances and 2 L-W ambulances when he takes his son there to Edwards Emergency each and every time after MIDNIGHT. And the other blogger who stated he also sees a minimum of 5 Ambulances whenever he also takes his son to the Emergency Room. I can not recall if the second anonymous blogger specified after MIDNIGHT but I think he may have. BTW, I hope both of their sons are OK.

This is what people whom are benefiting from ENTITLEMENTS and ENRICHMENTS off the backs of Naperville Taxpayers will do.

It is very sad. And then they have the audacity to blast you for allegedly lying when you always were telling the truth.

Hopefully, some honest bloggers will make some observations to confirm and corroborate my observations.

Thank you,

CIJ

Bloggers,

HERE IS SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT

========================================================================================================================================

*Assuming I decided to take on City Officials, City Council Members, Department Heads and whatever you have have in City Hall by googling their names and checking their records in Dupage Country....

*Assuming I decided to publish the names of anyone who ever had an IRS Audit or IDOR Audit......

*Assuming I decided to publish the names of anyone who had a verdict against him or her or a lien imposed on him or her.....

*Assuming I went to Dupage County and studied all the mud you can find about any City Officials who was involved in a divorce and/or child custody case....

*Assuming I went to Dupage and obtained all felonies and misdemeanors on City Officials and decided to publish them on this blog site.....

*Assuming I went to the Federal Court Records and dug more mud on City Officials and decided to publish it also......

*Assuming I went to Bankruptcy Court and found out how many of our City Officials have filed bankruptcy....or forecloases......

*Assuming I went wherever and dug more and more mud.......


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And then I attempted to show they all had some kind of personal issue and must not be FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE for that reason.

And then I attacked their character and reputations in an attempt to dislodge them from their high ranking positions.

And then I tried to embarrass them publicy to force them to resign.


========================================================================================================================================

I would never do any of the above. That is below the belt fighting. That is personal and has nothing to do with their performance at City Hall.


########################################################################################################################################


I have for example complained of the Double Dipping of Robert Marshall. Each and every time, I went out of my way to say what he is doing is LEGAL. Each and every time I called the system that allows this LEGALLY CORRUPT.

I would never think of attacking Mr. Marshall personally. I would never go check on his personal records and disclose them to the public. I would never air out his personal laundry just because I am against Double Dipping in the strongest way imaginable. If he were divorced, I would never reveal what mud his ex-wife said in a divorce proceeding against him.

########################################################################################################################################

Hopefully you get my point. In other words I have some CLASS that you folks who attack me are lacking. You really showed you are CLASSLESS by expanding your attacks against the Napergate Man. Are you all going to come on here and tell the Moderator, the Napergate Man started the attacks like Kindergarten Children....this tme he will not believe you and tell you to hush up......lol.... Again I knew with time I would have you folks CHECKMATED in a CORNER you can not get out of.

But what you folks are trying to do to the Napergate Man is attack his reputation and character using a personal matter that does not reflect on his character and reputation. You want to hold him to a standard of perfection with an implication if he is not PERFECT he must be a CROOK. What a sick and disgusting logic? You are a very sick man, Experienced and you want to be a leader like the Napergate Man. I for one will not show up at any of your protests. I hope no one shows up since you proved you a a person of less than impeccable character and reputation by attacking a MAN of near IMPECCABLE CHARACTER and REPUTATION.

Obviously, you have been googling him in the past and present. You have been checking his court records in person and on-line.

The best you can find on him, is an audit that he disagreed with and decided to fight by SUING the STATE OF ILLINIOS. He was exercising his legal right to protest wrongful taxes which is his TRADEMARK.

Again you folks put him under a microscope and found that in 30 years of running 6 business he had an issue with the IDOR in a Cook County Store.

He may have generated between 12 million and 24 million in sales tax revenue over 30 years and you are in essence trying to paint him as a criminal because he had a few thousand dollar tax dispute in the mid-ninties. Don't you folks think you are taking this matter out of context? A blogger buddy of Experienced clearly libeled him by calling him a TAX EVADER which is like calling him a CRIMINAL. You can not call anyone a CRIMINAL unless he has been convicted in a CRIMINAL COURT ROOM.

Once again I say SHAME ON ALL YOU DISGUSTING FOLKS who would attack a private citizen for a personal matter which has nothing to do with why the City of Naperville is raising our taxes as Moderator Magee very cleverly noted and explained.

Before allowing this line of attacks to continue, Moderator Magee has to ask himself if he would allow every City Officials' personal life to be brought out of closets and used to try to explain away their FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITIES.

I think their FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITIES have nothing to do with their personal lives. I think it is just a sick culture in City Hall that they have adopted and become part of since it benefits them at the expense of the taxpayer. It is a culture of GREED. It must be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY.

Let us focus on the story. Let us stay on track like the Napergate Man taught us. Let us develop a large grass roots movement like the Napergate Man did. Let us be relentless and steadfast as he was for a FULL DECADE.

Thank you,

CIJ

PS. And it is nice to know the Napergate Man is still fighting government and taxes and even suing GOVERNMENTS. I guess the guy just don't not quit and we all thought he RETIRED.....lol...

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 11, 2009 9:51 PM

To be personally liabe you do not have to be egregious, wanting or have committed a wilful act. Honestly, Experienced does not know what he is talking about. Forensic Accountants usually have their heads buried in sands of numbers, they usually can not see the overall picture. And remember Experienced is a lawyer who chose not to practice law. That should tell you something about his KNOWLEDGE of the LAW.

-------------------------------------------------

The problem of course in this case is that Mr. Esamil was found to have WILFULLY violated the act after an administrative hearing.

"The Illinois Department of Revenue (the Department) assessed a penalty against plaintiff in the amount of $72,039.34 for wilfully failing to pay the business's sales tax obligations under the Retailers' Occupation Tax Act"

That last one was mine.

By Citizen Investigative Journalist on November 12, 2009 1:58 AM

I for one will not show up at any of your protests.

-------------------------------------

I am not holding any protests. Where did you get that idea? My protests will be in the courthouse where I will be suing to have my illegal taxes abated. You are welcome to pay your entire tax bill. I won't mind. The amount you overpay on your home and rentals will make up for our savings.

Don't forget, the hearing on the tax levy is next Tuesday at 7pm. If you don't show, don't complain. The city is asking for $1.3 million more than they said they would last spring.

CIJ, Did you ever consider that the times that the first anonymous took their child to the emergency room for breathing problems, the environmental conditions could have been such that they were causing problems for asthmatics? It happens. That could easily account for more than 5 ambulances on those nights. Add in a heart attack or stroke victim too, and I believe him/her easily.

In my case, yes there were more than five on the ONE time I was there after midnight. I have been very clear that for me it was one time. I know there were a couple heart attack victims brought in that night. Don't know what the others were. In my child's case he was running an extremely high fever and had thrown up some blood all over his bed. It scared the living daylights out of us so that we called an ambulance. It is the one and only time we have used the services of an ambulance.

It is time for you to quit accusing us of lying and being firefighter friends. Neither of us is. If you are not willing to believe our accounts of what we saw one time in my case and a few times in the other person's case, then why should we believe a thing you are saying about what you have seen on your trips past Edward? It is just as possible that you are making up each and every account. You have made up things in the past, I have not. I don't have a history of that on here.

If you want people to give you the benefit of the doubt, then you need to do the same for others. Quit accusing us of fabricating, twisting and all of the other words you use to indicate lying, and realize that we saw what we saw. It is not out of the realm of possibilities for that to occur on occasion.

Anytime someone is held up as a paragon of virtue, as the Napergate man is held up by you, that person is opened up to all manner of criticisms. It may not always be fair or relevent (depending on the type of criticism), but that is the way it is CIJ. When you become a public figure (or somebody makes you one because of their endless references and repetition) then you are fair game.

In this case, you repeatedly point out what a virtuous man the Napergate man was because he was such a good watchdog for the people of Naperville. You say it is lessons we can learn from him that will help us eliminate the budget deficits. But if he is also the same person who failed to pay his rightful share of taxes, does that not invite obvious questions about whether or not he was talking out of both sides of his mouth? And isnt it obvious that those questions are entirely justified?

-1

You asked for thoughts, so here are mine (knowledgeable or otherwise):

1) The problem with decreasing FF staffing when the likelihood of a severe event is low, is how do you determine when that likelihood really low? While there may be less traffic on the roads overnight, everyone is home and asleep which makes the likelihood of a fire turning tragic even greater. Also, when is a freight train less likely to derail? When is a gas line less likely to burst? Does anyone really know?

I believe that FF staffing should have two components: what the historical rate of calls/emergencies has been, and also what the worst-case scenario is. The NFD needs to be staffed for both what we believe they’ll be needed to do and also what we could potentially nee