Open topic part 2

I would like to hear from anyone who was previously in the Neuqua High attendance area and now has a child at Waubonsie. Basically, how is it going? Are the 'southside' kids fitting in all right, are they ok with the school, is the school district providing busing for after school activities like they said they would, etc? My child will be starting Waubonsie next year. I'm assuming it will be fine in all respects, I'm just concerned that the School District will cut or limit bus service for after school activities because of budget constraints. Any info would be appreciated, and opinions are welcome too!

Kind of sports, kind of racism, kind of politics: Did anyone else see the irony in Al Sharpton and other black racists calling Limbaugh a racist and threatening strikes if he became a part owner in the NFL?

Ken

The only thing I know is that Limbaugh had his chance with the NFL in 2003 and he blew it. His McNabb comment proved that he didn't have the mind set to not let race enter into his thought processes. While Sharpton and others have the same problem, they aren't seeking to own a part of a major industry that thrives in part because of the talents of African Americans. Can you imagine getting pummeled each Sunday to put money in Limbaugh's pocket?

Al Sharpton is a joke. How many times does he have to "step in it" before the black community realizes that he does not best represent their cause? A few weeks ago the Trib reported on a group of black clergymen selecting the black candidate they will support for Cook County Board President. (There was a white candidate also). I ask, what would be the repercussions if the word white were substituted in that context? This form of racism also needs to be addressed by the media.

Thom Higgins had a letter in the paper yesterday about the parcel of land across from Central and next to Rotary Hill. This is where the vet’s office used to be (my dog and I were big fans of Dr Tom, God rest his soul).

Anyone know exactly what the developer is proposing for this site? Thom seemed to indicate two high-rise buildings on this one small lot. Could this possibly be true?

T.B.

Ken - That's all Al and Jesse and LF and Rev Wright are. Racists. They wouldn't be able to survive were it not for racism. Anytime Al and Jesse fly somewhere to protest it is always racially motivated. These are men who never apologized to the Duke lacrosse team after dragging them through the mud. Speaking of which, who are those kids suing? I think they all went after that disgrace of a DA. But are they going after Jesse and Al for slander like they did to Rush?

Ken,
your use of the phrase 'other black racists' is pretty telling, and gives some level of insight into your own thought processes. I thought that the whole Limbaugh thing was very odd, but also that it's been pretty badly reported on a number of different levels, and that was interesting all by itself.
At least one person I talked to about this, though only briefly, seemed convinced that the NFL had rejected Limbaugh as a part owner of the Rams, when in fact, the leader of the group making one of the bids was the one who removed Limbaugh from the group making the offer.
It seems to me that the heart of the matter is that any public organization interested in keeping their brand viable, and make no mistake, that's one of the driving forces of the league, would not particularly want to be involved with someone with hours of radio exposure on a daily basis, and particularly one who is seen as polarizing. Indeed, one who has built a career out of being polarizing.
I'd say it's not a question of sports, and not even a question of politics. It's a question of business and marketing, resolved even before it came close to the league having to decide anything along the lines.

Regarding Rush Limbaugh. Whether you agree or disagree with Rush there was going to be a fight over this attempt for him to buy into the Rams - it wouldn't have been too hard to predict - he is a charismatic / polarizing figure.

There would probably be a similar response if Al Sharpton tried a similar tact and tried to buy into the Chicago Cubs.
Or how about if Jesse Jackson tried to buy the New York Mets? (Jesse once called New York City: Hymietown).

GJC is correct that sports are certainly "brand driven", but I disagree with the explanation that Rush withdrew only because of Checkett's prodding (Checkets is the leader of the ownership group trying to buy the Rams). The owners group asked Limbaugh to withdraw due to the backlash against the group by many groups that included NFL Commissioner Roger Goodel, NFL owners and players, as well as African American groups. So yes, Checketts did ask Limbaugh to withdraw, but it was clearly due to outside forces.

Hey TB how you doing?

Anyone interested in looking at what a developer proposed for Tom Eganhouse's property (the closed Eganhouse Veterinary on Aurora Ave. next to Rotary Hill), can see it here in the October 7th Plan Commission agenda;

http://www.naperville.il.us/ccpacket/pc20091007p.pdf

A couple of comments; Brestal's documents talk of only one building because there is a basement connecting the two towers and therefore it is considered one building. The only access to the two buildings for residents would be through the Rotary Hill parking lot and then into the north tower's garage door.

From my perspective, turning the Rotary Hill parking lot into a street is a really terrible idea. It's just human nature, those folks are going to drive faster driving through the lot than someone looking for, or exiting, a parking space. Adding Naperville Central students into the mix (they park there during school the year) only makes it more dangerous.

And forgetting all that, a 48,000 sq. ft. building with two 86' tall towers, on less than a half acre, is just nuts.

You can also see the video of Bill Brestal withdrawing the request (apparently at the twelfth hour) while being delightfully vague as to what exactly he has in mind, although it's pretty clear he's planning on talking to Council, as well as the Park District and Riverwalk boards. Take a look, it's great fun watching the Plan Commissioners try to figure out what's goin' on;

http://naperville.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2

I would urge anyone who uses the area to review the extensive information in the agenda packet and contact the three bodies.

The tragedy is Tom's widow is trying to sell this property in these difficult economic times, is still paying taxes and keeping up the property, but has an interested developer who's not willing to propose something appropriate for the size and location of the lot.It's a real shame for her.

Ok, GJC, I'll bite. What was telling about my use of "other black racists" comment?

Thom Higgins –

Thanks for the info.

What a shame. Dr Tom was a great guy and I was very sad to hear of his death. He’s taken care of our family dog (as well as other family pets) for years. He was a kind, though eccentric, character—a true original. I saw photos of the RV he was rehabbing and also got tours of the vet facility basement so I could see his new hot water system. I heard he also used to preach on the street corner years ago. He was one of a kind and he’s missed.

I know his family needs to get what they can for the land and that’s really a prime spot. I heard Dr Tom’s widow is more or less a shut-in and doesn’t venture out—all the more reason for the family to get top dollar and see to her care.

Two towers at 86 feet is outrageous for that lot. And I agree that using the parking lot as a driveway is a recipe for disaster. Keep up the vigilance, Thom, you have my full support here.

T.B.

Let the record show that I, e^(i*pi), agree with Mr. Higgins' letter to the editor published October 15, 2009 in the Naperville Sun.

e^(i*pi)

For the record, I also agree with Mr. Higgins letter as well. And I agree with most of his post above except for the last paragraph. It is not solely the developers greed causing the high density, but the widow's as well. If she lowered the land price, a less dense project could be built. The developer needs the larger units to justify the land price and the related infrastructure.

Hey Thom, how are you coming on the joint statement on teachers salaries. Been months now. Dave Zager and I have agreed.

As far as the sale of the Eganhouse property goes, I have no idea what the agreed upon sale prices is, or whether the price is causal, or commensurate, with the density the developer is proposing.

I don’t think there is any question that developers are committed to “crack the ceiling” of height limits in the downtown area. It’s not just the Eganhouse proposal, pretty much everyone these days is coming in and asking for 6-7-8 floors as well. If you went to the public presentation that Omnia put on and heard the architect actually saying that they were going easy on us proposing 13 floors, otherwise they would be proposing double that, it’s pretty clear that there is tremendous pressure to build higher in the downtown area.

In the Fifth Ave Study a maximum height of 50’ was proposed for those shallow lots along Washington from Benton to Ogden. How’d you like to be across the alley and having a 50’ building staring down at you? Not pretty. It has tentatively been reduced to 43’ but that’s probably still too tall.

From past experience I can attest that people both can and do influence the city and Council regarding development proposals. That’s why I urge people to contact City Council, The Park District, and the Riverwalk Commission regarding the Eganhouse Condo proposal. You have to have a legitimate argument and be respectful, but the Council will listen to residents, especially when there's a lot of them on one topic.

As far as the rest of the downtown, the city is doing an update on the downtown master plan called Naperville 2030. The official deadline to comment is past, but it wouldn’t hurt to send an e-mail to the two planners running the study, or better yet attend some of the coming workshops. The attendance by residents has been pretty marginal. Here’s the link the website; http://www.naperville.il.us/napervilledowntown2030.aspx

Dan, we haven’t touched the website since spring. I need to finish the salary stuff, as well as post my analysis of the ISBE report cards for the 08-09 school year as they will be coming out soon.

Per the Rams purchase:

The NFL commissioner came out publicly and condemned one of the partners of the purchasing team. Thus, he was dropped.

Did anyone see the article on the Bullying Program for D204?

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1830997,D204-bullying-prevention_na101809.article

I'm not seeing anything mentioned about Bullying by email, texting & phone? Did they cover that with them? Younger children are even using these methods.

I happened to be at a conference quite some time ago now where Dr. Nikki Crick presented her research on Girls Relational Aggression & I'm happy it appears this program is including gossiping, saying I won't be your friend etc. Ever since I was a kid adults never took this type of female aggression seriously. They never labeled it as aggression since it was not physical and thus never did anything about it.

Also, they mention how parents are being made aware of the program & potential consequences but it made me wonder how many parents do the same type of behavior & the children are simply picking up the behavior through Social Learning. How many parents gossip about the neighbor down the street or other parents in the school? What couples are getting a divorce, "I heard Susie's husband did... or she did...."

Very interesting to think about & what behavior may be just good support mechanisms and what may be gossip, hurtful or actually spreading rumors. We are a society that does this about celebrities, reality shows & soaps, which have been around so long now. How many gossip about people at work? "I heard John got his promotion because..."

It would be nice to think if these children stop doing this behavior perhaps it will be lower when they are adults. At the same time it is hard to punish them for behavior they are viewing as ok from their parent's behavior. Didn't you all just love your parents saying, "Do as I say, not as I do." Ugh! I hope this program also includes an adult version to make them aware, otherwise they have forgotten a major factor.

Glad to see that Obama finally kept one of his promises, and is calling off the justice departments attacks on those using marijuana for medical purposes. I never have understood the need of some conservatives to deny the beneficial uses of this drug to those who need it.

Does anyone know the status of Highly Respected and Highly Effective Sargent Keating of the NPD?

CIJ –

Here, this should get your blood pressure back under control…

From today’s Herald:

“As Roselle faces a severe budget shortfall, the village board met Monday to explore whether becoming a home rule community could solve some financial woes.”

Full story at http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=330228&src=88

So what would you say to the people of Roselle, CIJ?

T.B.

The Justice Department already has their hands full investigating the criminals at the CIA who have kept us safe since 911, what were they thinking.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
By Ken on October 19, 2009 7:07 PM

Glad to see that Obama finally kept one of his promises, and is calling off the justice departments attacks on those using marijuana for medical purposes. I never have understood the need of some conservatives to deny the beneficial uses of this drug to those who need it.

My apologies to every one here. Obviously, my 1:50 PM post regarding Home Rule was meant for the first Open Topic. I didn't mean to drag that over here, too.

Chris, I hope you could re-publish it there, please.

T.B.

T.B., you'll have to resubmit it. I can't move it.

Per CA Governor's letter vetoing a bill..LOL! Either people have too much time on their hands to be watching for stuff like this or (maybe 'and') I guess no one can say Republicans do not have a sense of humor! HA! God, I'd hate to think if I went back & looked at all my students' papers...ha! If they only use the time it takes to do this for more constructive uses! :-)

Re the Eganhouse development mentioned in this blog. Dan D, I would suggest you think before you blog. Mrs. Eganhouse is hardly the greedy widow. You are a sick individual if you think this. This has not been an easy road for any of the family. The sale of this property was planned while Tom Eganhouse was still alive. This was his plan to take care of his wife. Shame on all of you! Sick, sick, sick. Especially when Tom Eganhouse spent his life supporting the Naperville community. You may not like the project but don't bash the family. SICK!

Re:Eganhouse Property To Dan D.

Dan, do you own any real estate? Would you be willing to take less than market value for it? How about letting the government decide what your property is worth? Or are you too greedy to do that? The Eganhouse property will only sell for what a buyer is willing to pay and to suggest the family lake less than market value for the benefit of the public sounds like a communist agenda. And as for all the NIMBYs in the adjacent condos opposed to the development of the property I ask only one question: What did you think was on the River Place condo property when Tom Eganhouse bought his property back in the early 80's? Answer:NOTHING!

Louise –

While I agree with the sentiments you expressed regarding the Eganhouse family, Dan D’s comment was but one person’s opinion and I’m not sure where the “Shame on all of you!” comment came from.

Not only did Dr. Tom (as my family and in-laws always called him) plan ahead for the sale of the office property, he also interviewed vets in the area before he decided to refer his patients to one which had a similar philosophy regarding animal care to his own. Not many people would be so thoughtful when they knew their days were numbered.

T.B.

To: Louise on October 29, 2009 2:13 PM, and Steve S on October 30, 2009 1:24 PM

Are you referring to the post By Dan D on October 17, 2009 11:43 AM? It seems fairly straight-forward and clear and is not, in fact, sick or mean. It seems to me he is simply stating the facts of real estate sales. Steve S., you appear to support the Dan D. post in your attempts to bash him! I read no reference in his message of a gov't takeover or that the family take less than market.

Given your attacks on his post, I must ask:

Does this mean you don't think there is greed involved with the selling of a property?

Is it that you don't think a nice person and outstanding citizen can also have a bit of greed when it comes to selling property?

Is it because you support 80 to 90 foot building hovering over the riverwalk which we all paid for (and in some cases actually built)?

Is it because you approve of a landowner and a developer using a a parking/access lot we paid for to enhance the value of their property's sale and the resulting development?

Is it because you think zoning ordinances and City rules & regs should be ignored for any development that involves the sale of a property by an upstanding family in Naperville?

All in all, I find your comments confusing and would appreciate any elaboration you can provide. I am pretty concerned with ANY developments in Naperville that involve zoning variances and the like, regardless of who is selling the property or developing it.

As Mr. Higgins has written, the developers have apparently sighted Naperville's "skyline" as their next frontier, and we need to ensure that our elected officials make them follow the rules and regs that are in place. They are there to protect the integrity of our town, the entire town and not just the McMansion areas,and they are under attack by the likes of the Brestal law firm and their clients.

To Epi-nonymous

Just so you're clear on my position, I do not agree with the comment posted by Dan D. Dan D. writes: "It is not solely the developers greed causing the high density, but the widow's as well. If she lowered the lowered the land price, a less dense project could be built."
Since a developer has already made an offer, he is suggesting the family take less than market value. Are you denying that you would take the lower of any offers for your property?
If your concern is 80-90 ft tall buildings near the river walk, then how do you explain the existence of the river place condos? The bottom line is that the Eganhouse property will be bought and developed by some developer who will have to comply with the city's zoning ordinances. If a variance is granted, it would have to be granted by the same process as any other variance, which always allows for public comment.

Epi and Dan D –

Just how do you relate the sale and development of the Eganhouse property to greed on the part of anyone from the Eganhouse family? Unless one of the Eganhouses is the developer (which hasn’t been mentioned here at all) then the developer (and not the family) is responsible for the proposed zoning variances.

Please explain how selling the land at less than market value would stop a developer from requesting a zoning variance and making yet more money from the development. What you propose the family should do doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

T.B.

For Steve S.

The River Place Condo buildings are 58' tall or 28' shorter than the proposed Eganhouse Condo towers. Also, the FAR (floor area ratio) is .94 vs. Eganhouse at 2.48 (max under code is 1.5)

So, needless to say, River Place is much less tall and dense that what Eganhouse is proposing.

The problem with the Eganhouse proposal is that it is too large for it's lot. If it has to utilize park district land to meet fire codes (two exit routes), then it is too large. The Martin Mitchell land to the east was not given to the city so that adjacent property owners could profit from it. If the developers can't make it work on their own property, then they need to change the proposal or seek an easement from the private land owner to the west.

To Thom Higgins,
Thom, if there are density, building height, or access issues then that will be between the developer and the city. ALL ALONG my point is this: Stop accusing the Eganhouse family of being greedy for considering or accepting a developers offer. All figures, statistics and semantics aside, baseless personal attacks on a fine family who lost a great husband and father to a dreaded disease is unwarranted to say the least. Enough said.

Steve S.

I am in no way accusing the Eganhouse family of greed, nor am I in any way attacking them personally. Here is the only comment I posted about the family;

The tragedy is Tom's widow is trying to sell this property in these difficult economic times, is still paying taxes and keeping up the property, but has an interested developer who's not willing to propose something appropriate for the size and location of the lot.It's a real shame for her.

Thom --

I don’t know for sure, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the Eganhouse family sold this piece of property to a developer, or at least sold it on a contingency that the developer proposed (zoning changes, etc). If you know different, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

Given this, referring to the project as "what Eganhouse is proposing" may not be correct and is causing some of the strife here. I really doubt this project is something the family is proposing, especially if Dr Tom did arrange for the property sale before his death. I really don’t think he would’ve ever supported something like this.

Perhaps simply referring to it as the former Eganhouse property would calm things down?

Just a thought,

T.B.

Park National Bank was apparently shut down by the FDIC on Friday, along with eight other banks owned by the same company, Oak Park-based FBOP Corp. US Bank has taken over all of them. Park had a branch in Naperville at Washington and Franklin. I'm surprised there's been little to no press coverage of this.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/park-il.html

Correction: They apparently had three branches in Naperville. In addition to the one on Washington, there was another on 59 by the mall and another on Naper Blvd in the Market Meadows center.

http://www.parknatl.com/locations/

TB

I take your point, unfortunately the Plan Commission has it listed under Eganhouse, which is why in my posts I used the name, regardless, I thought I was being successful separating the family from the developer, as in the following:

Anyone interested in looking at what a developer proposed for Tom Eganhouse's property...

and

The tragedy is Tom's widow is trying to sell this property in these difficult economic times, is still paying taxes and keeping up the property, but has an interested developer who's not willing to propose something appropriate for the size and location of the lot.It's a real shame for her.

And, once again, If anyone goes back and re-reads my posts, it is abundantly clear I never accused Mrs. Eganhouse as being greedy, nor did I personally attack her. As my statement above indicates, I look at her as a bit of a victim in this matter.

If I make any more posts I'll make sure I mention the developer Cobalt Partners, L.L.C.

Thanks,

TH

Thom –

Taken in totality, I agree with you. But rarely do people go back and re-read everything as carefully as they should. The line that caught my attention was “So, needless to say, River Place is much less tall and dense that what Eganhouse is proposing.” This seemed to indicate that the proposal was from the family and not Cobalt Partners, even though I don’t think that was what you intended.

I wasn’t comfortable with Dan D’s comments about the family’s greed and I don’t know how their sale of the land at below market value would change the developer’s proposal; however, I let it go at the time because I didn’t want to get into it with him and it was but one person’s opinion. Louise saw differently and painted us all with a broad brush because we let the comment go unchallenged.

Hey, did Dan D say he agreed with you on something? Is that a first?

T.B.

TB,

Unfortunately no, Dan's comment was that he and Dave Zager (Ast. Superintendent of Finance) are in agreement on the teacher salary issue,(boy I hope so). I've got to get some stuff up on the QE203.org website, and then we will see.

TH

Here’s some breaking news that affects everyone who posts here:

“In a case being watched by privacy experts, a Cook County judge ruled today a Buffalo Grove trustee is entitled to learn the name of the person who anonymously posted disparaging comments about the trustee's 15-year-old son on a newspaper's Web site.

The comments --- which trustee Lisa Stone has called "deeply disturbing" -- were posted during a rough-and-tumble election campaign last spring by someone calling himself "Hipcheck16."

Once she learns the poster's identity, Stone said she will decide whether to file a lawsuit against him. Court documents referred to defendant "John Doe" as a he.”

I’m glad to see the courts are willing to hold people responsible for what they write, even if done anonymously or through an alias.

The full story can be read at http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/11/trustee-may-learn-identify-of-anonymous-internet-poster.html

T.B.

How about a thread about the district 204 survey of residents - your article about picking the brains of residents. Many people are concerned that this is another sham survey to design a specific outcome.

District 204 is planning a survey of the public similar to the survey done in 2005 before and related to the Referendum vote for the new high school. I know a lot of people who have strong opinions regarding both the first and this survey. You had an article on this. I will ask the Herald the same question, so how about a new thread on this? Thanks

I need to find the article to see what it's all about before I can write a question. I'm not at work until Saturday. Give me a little while to look it up.