On Tuesday, the DuPage County Board declined to grant a conditional use permit to allow a Muslim worship facility and school to operate on 75th Street east of Naper Boulevard, between Naperville and Lisle.
Opponents have raised objections ranging from worries about the amount of parking and noise to concerns about the group's links to terrorism.
While the board voted 10-7 against it, all three of the board members representing Naperville supported it, and board member James Healy said he believed the board was legally required to approve it.
The group behind the measure will likely appeal.
What do you think? Is this a case of racism or anti-Muslim feeling, or were the objections legitimate and enough to deny the plans? Do you think this reflects poorly on Naperville and DuPage County?
Read the full story here:
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1986971,Muslim-center-voted-down_NA011210.article
Jack,
There was another example in the news today. Did you catch it?
Another angry white guy...and non muslim.
Jack,
What you are saying is if 200 white caucasian men rape women each year in the USA, that we should trust no white man to be near a woman.
If 10 Muslim men in America have insane terrorist leanings is it OK to brandish 3.5 million Muslim men with the same brush? What you do is you throw the 10 in jail just like the rapists and then throw the key away.
What really is the difference here, Jack?
What you are doing is simply stereotying a group?
I think OJ proved his point very well.
It appears to me, Jack, that you have subconscious predjudices you can not control. Maybe you oughta consider seeing a therapist to bring out your hidden hatred to people of differing religions or ethnicities.
Jack,
Here's some more to start your day...
http://current.com/1prim4c
http://tinyurl.com/y8k72ml
You can also google for all the examples you asked for and find yourself plenty more incidents of terror plotting and actions that did not involve muslims.
Jack,
James Wenneker von Brunn June 2009
Kyle Shaw, May 2009
Jim D. Adkisson, July 2008
Need more?
Original Joe, how many Americans and others were killed on 9-11 again? And oh, just a fact here, ALL of those terrorists were Muslims.
As far as condemning the APA, I didn't notice non Muslim psychiatrists performing a mass killing at Fort Hood or elsewhere last year, did you?
Original Joe, you seem to have a big problem with facts and history. And please stop putting words in my mouth about "conspiracy" charges you point to" when I never pointed to any. You seem to have to go about 15 years back to find ONE incident by non-Muslims. I can go anywhere in the news today or the recent past to find multiple Muslim terrorist acts here and abroad, from airplane bombers, shoe bombers, 9-11-2001, etc. You just don't want to deal with that large fact, do you? Some Muslims are in fact trying to destroy the West and they are very active. So please don't bring up your McVeigh story again; it shows how weak your position really is. Now if you have anything current (last 5 yrs or so) on angry white non-Muslim vets recently blowing something up or attacking innocent people, let us all know.
Original Joe,
Tim McVeigh's partner in crime was also a veteran. Good point!
They killed nearly 175 innocent civilians including numerous babies in diapers. The crazy psychiatrist "only" killed 13 soldiers. Usually someone who kills only soldiers is not considered a terrorist. But if you kill babies in diapers you should be defined as a first class terrorist. I think this is all the fault of the Amercian Media brainwashing mental midgets like Jack.
Instead of condemning Muslims we should be condemning the American Psychiatrist Associations who created this psychotic profession of mostly unbalanced and insane people.
Jack,
I was speaking of the ones rounded up without actually doing anything yet. Ft. Hood person DID something; that's as plain as day. How many of the "conspiracy" charges you point to amounted to anything?
You seemed to have an aversion about bringing up an angry veteran white guy who actually DID something (Tim McVeigh), but have no problems white-washing all Muslims as terrorists just waiting to strike. If you say you are for Muslims willing to live within the laws, then why are you against a Muslim worship center where they are trying to live within the laws ?
Our little Islamic radical psychiatrist at Fort Hood hasn't been convicted of anything... yet. What does actual conviction have to do with anything. One terrorist can kill hundreds or thousands of people.
Of that small amount, how many have been convicted on terrorism charges?
Anonymous wrote:" jack is right!
At least two dozen men have been charged! That is a terrifying
.00000064% of the population of the U.S.! We're being overrun!"
Anonymous, it's obvious that it should be pointed out to you that it took fewer than 20 Islamic hijackers in four jets on 9-11-2001 to kill thousands of people in this country. Case closed.
jack is right!
At least two dozen men have been charged! That is a terrifying
.00000064% of the population of the U.S.! We're being overrun!
Further from "The Jihadist Next Door":
"Not long ago, the threat of American-bred terrorists seemed a distant one....
America is now at a watershed. In the last year, at least two dozen men in the United States have been charged with terrorism-related offenses. They include Najibullah Zazi, the Afghan immigrant driver in Denver who authorities say was conspiring to carry out a domestic attack; David Coleman Headley, a Pakistani-American from Chicago who is suspected of helping plan the 2008 attacks in Mumbai; and the five young men from Virginia who, authorities say, sought training in Pakistan to fight American soldiers in Afghanistan. "
By jack on January 28, 2010 2:39 PM
The New York Times of January 27, 2010, ran a great little article titled "The Jihadist Next Door." I'd say that's pretty germane to this topic.
----------------------------
The subject of the article was raised as a Southern Baptist. Should we ban Baptist Churches?
"Despite the name he acquired from his father, an immigrant from Syria, Hammami was every bit as Alabaman as his mother, a warm, plain-spoken woman who sprinkles her conversation with blandishments like “sugar” and “darlin’.” Brought up a Southern Baptist, Omar went to Bible camp as a boy and sang “Away in a Manger” on Christmas Eve."
The New York Times of January 27, 2010, ran a great little article titled "The Jihadist Next Door." I'd say that's pretty germane to this topic.
nonymous on January 25, 2010 8:21 AM wrote:
How about, because that is the location of the building they determined is suitable for their needs?
And:
This is also an old trick in the books of every congregation of every denomination of every faith tradition. Places of worship are very often located in residential areas, probably because that is where the people they serve live.
Are you trying to say that Muslims have no religious rights?
-JQP
Anyone wonders why these guys want their center right in the middle of a residential area? This is such an old trick in the terrorist books. Do they really think that Naperville is Gaza, where taking cover behind people's houses was ok? And they are trying to guilt us under the pretext of religious rights...
People trying to prove an anti-muslim point always refer back to the crusades - nice.
The real problem in the world today is oil and money. If England never pumped money in Saudi and helped establish the King there now, we probably wouldn't have the problems we're having now. Same goes for the US pumping money and support for the oil in Iran and the Shah and for supporting the Afghan fighters against the USSR.
At the end of the day it really isn't about religion at all, it's about power, money and oil.
A bigot (in modern usage) is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own or intolerant of people of different ethnicity, race, or class.
MV is a good example of this term in case you weren't 100% on the usage.
99.999% of Muslims are not terrorists. Muslims also died in 9/11 and are currently the targets of al-qaeda around the globe too. But you just keep your head in the sand, it's safer there.
Fool.
This is a good snapshot of what most of America is like today. Do we feel it is wrong to deny a place of worship? Yes, most of us do. Do we agree to have a muslim congregation in our backyard? Hell no. Why do I feel that way? Because our government failed to protect us against muslim attacks. We, the people need to protect ourselves, otherwise we will be staring at the orange level while our existence is taking away by Islam.
Jack wrote:
That's exactly my point. You don't care about the freedoms of Muslim Americans, and the terrorists, Muslim or otherwise, don't won't anybody to have freedom.
We don't live in any of those countries now, do we? We live in the U.S., where we value our freedoms---except that the freedoms we espouse quickly become meaningless if we start to draw lines and say that certain classes of people are not worthy of those freedoms.
You say you are favorable toward Muslims who live within the law, but believe we should treat 100% of Muslim Americans as if they are part of the small percentage that think suicide bombing is sometimes justified (less than 10% according to the Pew results that I found). That's contradictory. It's also painting with a broad brush.
By that way, I wonder, if a poll were taken of Irish Americans, say, 25 years ago, what percentage would have said that acts of random violence directed against the British in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK was sometimes justified? I wonder what percentage of American evangelical Christians think it is okay to shoot doctors who perform abortions, or to bomb abortion clinics? Would a 5% figure in either case justify restricting the rights of the entire population?
-JQP
John Q. Public: Terrorists are not concerned about individual freedom in any way so there's no playing into their hands. I'm concerned about keeping my freedom. BTW, if you happen to notice Islamic societies which are concerned about individual freedom, please let me know which ones they are. I'll be happy to take any Amnesty International or UN Reports as evidence. Certainly not Saudi Arabia where I notice a young girl is going to get 90 lashes for bringing a mobile phone to school in the news yesterday. The broad brushing is not by me. Open your eyes. I'm all for Muslims who are willing to live within the laws of the USA. But there's about 10% who consider suicide bombing sometimes justified (recent Pew Poll).
Jack,
When you propose, as you seem to be doing, that we restrict the rights of all of our Muslim citizens because some Muslims are terrorists, you are painting with a broad brush. You are also playing into the hands of the terrorists, who are by and large opposed to the kinds of liberties we have (religious freedom, freedom of association, etc.).
-JQP
P.s. Naperville on January 18, 2010 4:28 PM is me.
By By Anonymous on January 20, 2010 11:19 PM
"Original Joe: Who stated all mosques have something to do with terrorism.
Not all mosques, just SOME."
====
Then why are people ASSUMING this one would have had something to do with terrorism... ?
There's a term I'm trying to find, it's about PRE JUDGING.....
John Q. Public: Let's be very clear; Detroit, Minneapolis and other cities are definitely having problems with Muslim terrorists. Let's not forget about the Fort Hood killings either. This kind of violence doesn't grow in a vaccuum.
No one is painting all Muslims with a broad brush.
Original Joe: Who stated all mosques have something to do with terrorism.
Not all mosques, just SOME.
Anonymous: As long as you are bringing up the Crusades, would you care to discuss why the Muslims were in Spain, why they tried invading Vienna in 1529 and why they invaded Constantinople in 1453? The Crusades were an attempt to get the Muslims out of Christian and Jewish lands. Speaking of history and all....
Are homeowner's 'rights' being discriminated against when every school day moms park their cars along their streets to pick up or drop off their kids? 180 school days X 2 (dropoff and pickup) = 360 incidents of homeowner's 'rights' being discriminated against. Of course that sounds silly, because it is. Last time I checked, homeowners do not own the streets and ANYONE has a legal RIGHT to park LEGALLY on that street. The streets have to be cleared of cars by 2AM, well before the 10:30PM being complained about by 'mom of 4'.
The last thing that this is about is parking and noise concerns. I am glad that all three board members who represent Naperville voted in favor of Irshad. This seems to be a case blatant religious and ethnic discrimination.
There are a number of Naperville subdivisions that have churches in close proximity, some with daycare centers and some without. Any neighborhood has to deal with parking and noise associated with a religious center, synagogue, church, etc. regardless of faith. Has anyone lived near a Christian church during the Easter or Christmas seasons? Talk about noise, traffic and parking problems! (Wow, it's a good thing all those folks don't go to church every Sunday)
Let’s look at the surrounding area. Just a quick drive down Washington Street there is three churches between Edward Hospital and 75th street that back-up to subdivisions. Expand that search area and you get a total of eleven churches between Washington and Wehrli Rd and 75th near the proposed site of the proposed Irshad center, all surrounded by housing subdivisions.
Something tells me that if Walgreen's wanted to put another pharmacy in the same location the parking lot would have been paved and painted already.
I seriously think some of you are completely missing the point. It is not necessarily the "people" or "religion" that are not welcomed, but the fact that the homeowners will pay the hefty price of hearing car alarms beeping at 10:30 pm every night, car doors slamming, and cars parked all over their neighborhood streets. Remember people, the homeowners were there first. It is their rights that are being discriminated against. I'm tired of minorities throwing down the race card. If this was an Irish bar that was opening up, I guarantee the neighbors would still object!
Why doesn't this center pick one of our MANY open strip malls as a place of worship. Naperville is not lacking in foreclosed businesses. Drive up and down Route 59 and I promise you will find one on every corner... That way, there will be AMPLE parking as well as no worries in disturbing the working families who have 5 a.m. wake up calls for school/work.
Anonymous on January 18, 2010 8:57 AM wrote:
Wake up and smell the coffee, Naperville is still one of the racist cities in the Midwest. Why is this decission a surprise?
I don't know how racist a city Naperville is or isn't, but it is worth reiterating that all three board members who represent Naperville voted in favor of Irshad.
We have to watch how this one plays out in the courts. Then we need to have a long memory and not forget the facts when it is time to use the ballot box to reward or punish our elected officials depending upon how they voted on this issue as well as others.
Our elected officials simply serve as the public face and voice of the citizens. IF our elected officials act like bigots they serve only to portray us as bigots. Use your vote wisely.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Naperville is still one of the racist cities in the Midwest. Why is this decission a surprise?
As someone who got to know a few Muslim families from the teams my kids were on in high school, and also from the 20 some years I spent as a teacher in the area, I have to say that my personal experience with Muslims has been wonderful. The children and teenagers were some of the nicest and hardest working kids I have known. The parents were kind and caring, involved with their kids and always friendly with me.
I hope that this decision was based solely on the capacity and land usage and not at all on bigotry or pressure from bigoted groups. I hope that this will all be hashed out and a solution will be found. I do hope that the learning center does happen eventually, whether in that location or another one.
Jack,
You do understand, don't you, that not ALL Islam is radical? In exactly the same way that no tall Christianity is radical, not all Hindi's are radical, not all Republicans are radical, not all... you get the picture, right?
Small minds, people. Open them up. If you're afraid of Islam, it might be worth studying it, right? Perhaps even visit one of these sites, and attend a worship service, maybe even ask a few questions.
Rich,
Comments like yours demonstrate not only your ignorance about Islam, but your total disconnect from reality.
Let's face facts: There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. More than 2.4 million of them live in the United States. If you truly believe that this religion advocates murder, destruction and annihilation of everyone of another faith, don't you think we'd be neck-deep in suicide bombers? Don't you think that we'd be seeing bomb explosions on an hourly basis?
The fact that we don't is proof enough that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people who coexist with us every day. People such as yourself, who try to whip up hatred because of fear and ignorance, only make matters worse.
Truth be told, I'm far more worried about these Tea Party nutjobs than anyone else. They're the ones advocating hatred and violence toward elected officials, and dimunition of anyone who does not agree to their point of view. Real "patriots," all right.
Jack,
Again, IF you knew history you would understand how laughable your statements are in terms of thousands of years of world history compared to what's gone on during the last ten to twenty years... and the last ten to twenty years is NOTHING compared to the nine crusades fought over a period of nearly 200 years.
The problem with too many Americans is that they assume anything America does is correct yet they have no appreciation for the Muslim perspective much less why it is the way it is or how it has been shaped over time.
Jack,
While it may be good idea to look at how some Muslims operate, it is not a good idea to paint all Muslims with the same brush. There are a billion or so Muslims in the world, and several million in the U.S. If they were all terrorists or supporters of terrorism, we would have a much, much bigger problem than we do.
-JQP
Jack, it's this simple: All mosques don't have something to do with terrorism, regardless of what you want to believe or think you know.
Anonymous:
If you read the newspapers the last ten or twenty years, your post would not have expressed such ignorance of what is happening in this country with radical Islam.
Original Joe, it's a good idea to look at how some Muslims operate in other countries and it is a fact that some mosques are used as terrorist training centers in other countries, not just Europe. Bringing up Timothy McVeigh when there is a huge amount of active Muslim terrorism occurring the last ten years around the the US and world shows how weak your position is. If looking around the world is too difficult for you, check out the terrorist connections with mosques in Detroit, Minneapolis, etc.
By Anonymous on January 14, 2010 10:31 PM
So if he voted on the merits, what does being Jewish have to do with it? Is the assumption that a Jew is automatically against the Muslim?
----------------------------------
Taken in the context of all of the biased and bigoted comments to date on this question, if one would have expected a bigoted and biased reaction to the petition, one would have expected it from the Jewish community including it's one representative on the Board. However, that board member was able to make a decision on the merits. If this thing goes to litigation and the county spends big bucks defending, just remember there are some that can make decisions on the merits.
Exoerienced, you have your facts wrong. It was youthful members of the Muslim group that burglarized the facility on Oleson on multiple occasions. They were going for the cash so other than incidental damage, I don't recall vandalism being an issue.
So if he voted on the merits, what does being Jewish have to do with it? Is the assumption that a Jew is automatically against the Muslim?
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By Experienced on January 14, 2010 3:16 PM
By Anonymous on January 14, 2010 9:23 AM
I had a good friend who was Jewish, he converted to Islam.
What does it all mean?
***************************************
It shows that people can make decisions on the merits. That's why we elect county board members. To make decisions on the merits without taking into account biases. The Jewish guy voted for the Muslim petition.
You all do realize that there are already at least 2 Muslim congregations in Naperville. One on Oleson and one on Ogden. I haven't seen anyone from there causing any trouble. I do seem to remember 4 Christian kids burglarizing and vandalizing the congregation on Oleson in 2006.
Rich,
Stone-age religion? Are you kidding me? An ignorant statement like that makes you come off like more off a neanderthal than any Muslim ever possibly will. Try educating yourself some about all of the great religions across the globe. When you are finished with that then try to learn something about our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I for one am pleased with this decision. Whatever the supposed reasons for denying this place in this instance, why should we give house room for the promotion of a stone-age religion whose adherents loathe this country and everything it stands for?
By Anonymous on January 14, 2010 9:23 AM
I had a good friend who was Jewish, he converted to Islam.
What does it all mean?
***************************************
It shows that people can make decisions on the merits. That's why we elect county board members. To make decisions on the merits without taking into account biases. The Jewish guy voted for the Muslim petition.
Jack,
Looking to England or other European countries to make a decision here in DuPage county is an interesting take on things. Whether you admit it or not, you are using bigoted racism for justification; using someone else's actions to support a decision against a person or group with a similarity (same religion).
If we use the same logic we should not allow any more Irish Catholics or Army vets in DuPage County either, since Tim McVeigh was both in addition to being a domestic terrorist.
jack on January 14, 2010 12:33 AM,
if you were any kind of serious student of world history your post would not have expressed such sophomoric naiveté.
Lots of people who read the Koran see government, religion and the military as one. So it makes perfect sense that so many Mosques are in fact used as arms warehouses and mustering areas for the troops. Just like an armory for the military in Christian countries. Also can be used as city hall and law courts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
[5] Islamic law (Arabic: شريعة Šarīʿah) touches on virtually every aspect of life and society, encompassing everything from dietary laws and banking to warfare, welfare, and Jihad.[
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By reader on January 13, 2010 4:48 AM
It's a freakin' house of worship, not weapons of mass destruction! Fighting terrorism is one thing, shutting down a religious center is another. If the people who run this place are connected to terrorism, why aren't they being arrested? Even raising this question is ridiculous and smacks of religious persecution. Shame!
I had a good friend who was Jewish, he converted to Islam.
What does it all mean?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
By Experienced on January 12, 2010 10:54 PM
Please note that the only Jewish member of the County Board supported the Muslim petition.
Q. What do you think?
Lets see, the Ayatollahs (rulers) in Iran and the Wahhabists (rulers) in Saudi Arabia want to kill every man, woman, and child in the USA, their words. This includes Muslims living in the US who would be written off as martyrs whether they want to be or not. Both Iran and Saudi Arabia provide the money, mullahs and leadership for a lot of the Islamic centers being built in the US. Home grown Islamic terrorist are being radicalized and recruited in the US now.
Q. Is this a case of racism or anti-Muslim feeling
Muslims are all races, and there are various sects of Islam: all not the same. According to media reports, only one third of the 1.2 billion Muslims want to see the US destroyed.
Q. Or were the objections legitimate and enough to deny the plans?
If not, I'm sure there will be an appeal. Hopefully one based in law not racial, religious and ethnic politics. It shouldn't be more than a few days before Farrakhan and Jackson are on TV in Naperville making an appeal for reason and sound judgment.
Q. Do you think this reflects poorly on Naperville and DuPage County?
Only if you have an inferiority complex and listen to the PC politicians and media that are literally destroying the US. If Obama is flying through Chicago maybe he can visit Naperville and apologize for the entire US over this outrage.
Mark wrote: "...Now that this land is up for grabs again, maybe it should be turned into a Klan Recruitment and Training Center...."
Mark, have you been watching the news the last few years? I would ask you if it was the Klan or Muslims who have been trying to kill hundreds on airliners, who did the recent mass murders at Fort Hood, etc.
It's a good decision by the government. Listening to the area homeowners is also a good move. And with all the terrorist related arrests lately in this country, I think a "Muslim worship facility" is the last thing needed in DuPage County. All one has to do is look at the hundreds of cases occurring in England and other European countries with Muslims using "worship centers" as bases for jihadism and destruction of the West. I think there is nothing about racism or bigotry in regard to this decision.
Anonymous at 3:24pm:
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. :) I believe reader was trying to illuminate the fact that the Irshad members are seeking a *peaceful* house of worship rather than a place to plan acts of violence and if they had shown violent tenancies, they would have been arrested.
To answer the question posed by the moderator, as the Irshad center was not treated in the same manner as other churches that have been approved by this County Board, then, yes, they were discriminated against.
Chris, in answer to your questions:
Yes, this is an instance of racism and bigotry beyond compare; and
Yes, it does reflect poorly on DuPage County and the my neighbors therein.
Now that this land is up for grabs again, maybe it should be turned into a Klan Recruitment and Training Center. Given the quotes in the story today, along with the comments that visitors have left, I'd think the Klan would have plenty of volunteers in DuPage County.
Psyche,
"rights of current homeowners"? This property was in existence for decades before the acres around it were subdivided into the new homes built not that many years ago. Oh, and because the property in question has now changed hands somehow changes who has more rights? How about all property owners getting equal rights?
Naper Mom,
"affected residents"? Go drive by the site for yourself. Worst case is that one and only one resident might be affected and that might be the property directly to the west. Let's face it 75th Street in this area is a mini-expressway with speeds normally between 45 and 70 all hours of the day and night. The property owner to the west should be far more concerned with the noise, pollution, etc. coming from 75th Street than a few people gathering peacefully to pray.
reader,
"It's a XXXXXXX' house of worship". Congratulation for stooping to a new low level of crudeness by finding a need to use a pseudonym for a vulgarity as your only way to describe a house of worship.
So while local politicians can and more often do pander to whomever they view as important to their re-election the judicial system operates a whole lot differently. The local homeowners can relish in their last victory once this decision starts working its way through the legal system. Sadly, the rest of us taxpayers can once again grab hold of our wallets and wonder how much this will cost us all in legal fees and possibly a settlement once all the dust on this one is settled... especially considering it never should have needed to go to court in the first place. While I hate to see tax dollars get wasted on unnecessary lawsuits I am 100% in support of the rights of the church and it's members to defend themselves against blatant religious and ethnic discrimination.
I am not up on the details of the request by the learning center.
I CAN say, though, that I am pleased by many of the recent decisions in the area (County on this, Naperville on The Woods Along Old Plank Road) that finally appear to be including the rights of current homeowners when making decisions that cover landowner rights.
I am shocked at the decision. Pleasantly, PLEASANTLY shocked. A Board actually listened to the affected residents, reviewed zoning changes and didn't cave under mis-directed political correctness. Way to go!
Xenophobia rules. Every dark skinned person must be a terrorist, right?
Buy the right piece of property and there will not be a valid issue. I am tired of any minority group not getting their way, claiming discrimination when that is simply not the case. Yes the crazy factor came out for the meeting, but I believe the board acted as they would have with anyone asking for that use change. It is the wrong size and they are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.
It's a freakin' house of worship, not weapons of mass destruction! Fighting terrorism is one thing, shutting down a religious center is another. If the people who run this place are connected to terrorism, why aren't they being arrested? Even raising this question is ridiculous and smacks of religious persecution. Shame!
Please note that the only Jewish member of the County Board supported the Muslim petition.