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Hot dog cart up for permit renewal

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By all accounts, Naperville resident Joe Hornbaker and his mobile hot dog business have proven a welcome addition to downtown Naperville - at least to most people.

The council will soon be taking up the issue of extending Hornbaker's permit, and some objections have been raised. Some of the other businesses downtown have complained he was taking business away from them. And while the Downtown Naperville Alliance says he is welcome, it also says his operation should pay a $700 fee. Hornbaker currently pays $100, while most other businesses pay $300. The higher fee is justified to pay for the messes created by some of Hornbaker's customers.

Do you think Hornbaker's hot dog cart is a valuable addition to the downtown? Do you think he is being treated fairly, or is he treating other businesses fairly?

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commitee people make way to much of every situation. I guess it justifies their positions, but make sence when your about to tear apart a man's way of living. I hear things like, I'm not a fan of street vendors or, I never liked street vendors or, it looks like a circus on the street. These are appointed commitee members coming up with these juvenile comments. If your jelous because of the attention Joey's red hots is getting well to bad. The same with the health dept. people. Joe was told by one of them, I never liked hot dog carts, well guess what, nobody cares what you like or don't like, your job is to approve or not approve based on health dept. rules, not on your personal feelings. also, what's with approving another street vendor that want's to sell hot dogs. I'm all for letting other vendors in the door but use your head, why have the only 2 vendors in town selling the same thing. Also, the whole time Joe's been in business he's only been allowed to sell dogs and brats, this guy comes along and the commitee is allowing him to sell whatever he want's. a real slap in the face for Joe I think.

Hornbaker should be able to keep his cart and not be charged $700 in fees. He should not be punished because he had the entrepreneurial idea of the cart in the first place. Raise his fees a little bit, but $700 is too much. After I heard that there was a question to renew his license, I went to purchase a hot dog. There was no mess around as he has his own garbage can next to the cart. There is more of a mess from ice cream wrappers and spoons around than hot dog wrappers.

I do believe that the number of carts allowed down town should be limited.

Don't most of them have day jobs? Most, not all. Some are retired like Pradel who gets the gravy of a city retirement and benefits along with council member pay AND liquor commissioner pay. Yet he still keeps nipping around for a pay raise. Typical civil servant mentality... never knowing when they have a good thing going and always wanting more.


The real money is not in direct compensation, at one time two city councilman's children were employed by our most famous law firm receiving salaries of approx $100K right out of school.

City Council routinely grants zoning exceptions to the clients of this law firm. Council also approves this firms land deals in the downtown including the gigantic Riverwalk dwarfing development planned for the south side of the river which will span from Aurora to Water street to the Dupage River's edge. Once all of the approvals are in place, the owners of the underlying land (which includes this law firm) will sell it off to an out of town developer at a huge profit that could not be made without a lot of variances from the City.

Sen Dick Durban's wife is Naperville's lobbyist in Springfield, nice way to cash in your husband's power and influence. I'm sure she never discusses her clients with her husband.

Dupage Republican machine teeming up with the Cook County machine, I'm shocked, not.


By John Q. Public on April 10, 2010 2:00 PM

La Cucaracha wrote, Even thought they get something like $5k they can't give any up. But it's really about the health insurance.

I think they get around $10K per year. As for the health insurance, don't most of them have day jobs?

"I think these positions could pay nothing and we'd still get a lot of good people running in every election."

A lot of good people do run in every election. But they are not the ones that are ever elected.

JQP-thanks for the correction. So, $10k, plus benefits, that's even worse! $80k for the eight of them, that's one or two snow plowers, or someone that actually provides work for the public. Plus the Mayor who I believe makes more. JQP, one point of disagreement. I think that they do run, at least patially, for the salary and bennies. If they did not, then give them up. I read that CM Bob brought it up and they all threw up in their mouths. Good question, how many take the benefit? I think that they should disclose that information. Can the Sun ask?

La Cucaracha wrote, Even thought they get something like $5k they can't give any up. But it's really about the health insurance.

I think they get around $10K per year. As for the health insurance, don't most of them have day jobs? For those that do, it would be instructive to know how many of them opt for the city's health plan. That said, I doubt any of them ran for office because of the salary and the health insurance; I think these positions could pay nothing and we'd still get a lot of good people running in every election.


La C is absolutely right of course, there is absolutely NO evidence that the City Council (or upper Management for that matter) cares a thing about community service. I doubt very much it's about the health insurance either though - the plans the city has are fine, and these people can certainly afford ANY premium they are asked to pay without blinking - but they could do just as well doing any of a dozen other things - it's really about the status and the "perks". I don't know if it's true for EVERY member of this group, but I do know that it's true of most. They don't care one bit about the everyday resident or the working people on staff - right now they are playing let's make it look like we care by dropping the staff that aren't important to US so that the residents will think we care about their taxes and the spending - but they aren't about to cut ANYTHING that might inconvenience or cost them. Thus the unethical treatment of the 20 year plus employee's, and the fact that they wouldn't consider a tier system for insurance where people who make more than 80,000 actually pay more than those who make 25,000. There are a lot more unethical things happening, but that would be news from the closed sessions of their meetings. IF they get re-elected, which I hope is unlikely in 90% of these cases, then watch them spend our money all over again! MORE test track projects, MORE building like the NEW Public Works center, MORE millions for useless projects like the Electric Grid, MORE red light camera's, more taxes, more fee's and SO ON! After all, these things won't change their way of life one bit, but more and more of us will be living elsewhere because we can't afford to pay for their perks or their ego's. The ONLY way that changes is if people are elected who are NOT connected to big business or big family names ..... a handful of Mom's and Dad's and Grandparents who live and work in the real world could turn the place around overnight. Sadly, it's unlikely we'll see that, but the dream is a beautiful thing!

Don't kid yourselves, most of the City Council is in it only for themselves. Even thought they get something like $5k they can't give any up. But it's really about the health insurance. It's worth much more than the measly salary. They got rid of employees, which they needed to do, but they make zero sacrafices themselves. If you thought it was about public service-it's snot.

I propose a test. Don't hold a meeting for a few months and watch what happens. Nothing. Nothing will happen, except Huber won't speak, and Dick F. won't pontificate for hours on end with nobody listening.

If anyone REALLY wants to see how the City Council operates, the sessions (at least the open sessions, the closed ones I am sure are MUCH more interesting) are all available on-line at the City web-site. You can skip the INCREDIBLY boring parts ..... in the last meeting, try just watching the public comment portions and the new business. It shows a LOT about how the Councilmen think and management think. The poor guy who wants the rates for garbage pick up to be fair for Condo owners can't get through to the City Manager or Fursteno to save his life ...... probably because he is using common sense that doesn't support any of the ways the City has already decided to make or waste money. The only sensible comment in the who thing came from Councilman Bob, who has been known to post here. He suggested the Councilman as a sign of good faith offer to take a 10% cut in the very small salary they receive for their services. ALL the other Councilman went completely silent. Nice huh? As someone who shows up for work every single day and is having their tiny salary (not much more than the Council gets paid - but as a 40 hour full time job) shaved away on a daily basis by the "decision" makers, I respect Councilman Bob - and have ONCE again been reminded of why the City budget is in the shape it is after seeing the expected reaction from the rest of the Council and the City Manager.

I hope you know I was attempting humor mik?

Anonymous wrote: "There are all kinds of products that could be sold downtown without any need for a license and nothing the city can do at present to prevent, control, or regulate people who just show up one day and start selling."

Is this true? I didn't know that. Naperville requires door to door sales people to register (at least I thought they did), I can hardly believe that if someone started selling "ribfest" or sports team t-shirts that they would be violating something without some type of license.

Anonymous One you are a little nutty. I use to think OJ was nuts.

Why don't we let Scott Huber have a cart? At least we can bring down the back log in the County Courthouse as he won't be able to sue everyone and/or vice versa. Hopefully we won't find hair from his beard in the food he sells. I can not imagine that guy wearing a net over his beard.

That is where you are wrong. An organ grinder and a monkey don't need a license... only a vendor with a push cart needs a license. A guy selling balloons or a mime or a street musician don't need a license either. Nor does an artist doing sketches or caricatures. There are all kinds of products that could be sold downtown without any need for a license and nothing the city can do at present to prevent, control, or regulate people who just show up one day and start selling.

The problem is once you open the door for stuff like this is when or where it will end. This is one door left closed and locked.

Next we'll have a tiny monkey dancing to the organ grinder.


Only if the owner of the monkey gets a permit and pays a fee to clean up after the monkey!! or god forbid the owner sets up a toasted almond and peanut cart and uses the monkey to collect the money - now that I could go for.

Seems there are already some trike-carts for transporting people from a parking lot a half a block away to Starbucks so they don't break a sweat before grabbing that Latte.

Next we'll have a tiny monkey dancing to the organ grinder.

How about some donkey carts for transportation like in 3rd world countries?

Anonymous wrote:

"Why open a door that would be better kept closed in the first place?"

Good question---but only if you're already convinced that this is a door that would be better kept closed.

Did Mik actually call for censorship in America?

Sadly, and as expected, they did not contribute anything to the topic at hand.

Let the competition be fair, not exclusive like it currently is.

Why open a door that would be better kept closed in the first place? Naperville has existed just fine without a need for push carts and street vendors. and in many ways is far better off without them. Is this really the kind of visual impression we want to portray to the hundreds of thousands of visitors who come to downtown each year? There are a bunch of other towns in the greater metro area with just as nice of a downtown area as what we have to offer and several who are much classier than Naperville and I have yet to see one of them with a pushcart operation. Granted there are blue collar towns like Peoria and others with street vendors and the like... I would just hate to see Naperville stoop to the level of offering a tacky, carnival like atmosphere on an ongoing basis.

So you think that there aren't already bidding process rules and regulations in place? Seems like it would be a pretty simple adaptation of existing processes, but whatever.
I guess I come down on the side of thinking that a few carts are actually a benefit to the downtown area, at least when the weather is good.
I do agree that the area of operation should be limited, somewhat, but I don't think that the carts should have to be static. A one block radius for each of the proposed carts, maybe. Some locations would be better than others, of course, and therefore worth more in theory. I don't see the point of trying to require set hours of operation, though. A small business owner in a case like this should be allowed to set their own hours. On a cold day like today, or when it's raining heavily, it would make little sense to operate. Last week would have been a good one.
Give them a shot. Why not? If people can make a living with a cart, some will try it and see if it works for them. Just limit the number of available licenses; that's the idea behind my bid suggestion, everyone who is interested gets a fair shot at one. (with the never ending proviso of the politically connected, but that's just reality)

Did Original Joe really say "he's not treating other businesses fairly because he's not cleaning up?" Ask a city worker how many Starbuck cups are picked up on the downtown side walks each week!
Did Anonymous really tpye a novel about this?
The Sun should limit the number of comment that come from it's readers.
Are they both unemployed and have lots of time on thier hands. Or do they work for the Sun, and jsut act "nuts" for my viewing pleasure??

The following quote was from that genius, Dick F.

"Someone may spill ketchup here or there, but one good rainstorm takes care of that," said Councilman Richard Furstenau, a member of the Downtown Advisory Commission and frequent customer of Joey's Red Hots.

Couple of comments. Lets get rid of the Fire Department because a good rain storm will take care of that. How is he on the Downtown Advisory Commission? Who puts him on any group? I like that he is known as a frequent customer if Joey's Red Hots. I'm sure he gets free hot dogs to keep other cart owners out.

The proposed bidding process and required documents would likely cost more than the revenue and licensing fees the city would gain from three carts. One more way to spend the tax dollars.

I don't see any problem with allowing a few food carts downtown, as long as they are only allowed in areas where there is sufficient space for pedestrian traffic to pass unimpeded. If we need to add city codes to regulate their numbers, location and operation, then so be it. There are many cities and towns across the country that allow these carts and it has not spelled the end of civilization as we know it; but if they turn out to be too much of a nuisance or an eyesore in Naperville, we can always pull the plug on the operation.


Captain Oblivious,

What's my suggestion? My best advice would be to just end the one year trial and simply say thank you. End of story. Despite all the bleeding hearts there simply is no pent up demand for push cart vendors in Naperville.

However, if a city business license is to be extended to a second year then I think the license needs to be clearly spelled out in terms of exactly where the push cart must be located (as opposed to constantly on the prowl around downtown streets) along with clearly established days and hours of operations (as opposed to the erratic days and hours it operated last year). If the city is going to treat this like a serious business then it should be operated like a serious business and not like an erratic, fly-by-night kind of operation.

Peoria has about 20 carts in the downtown area. Most are around the courthouse square.

For regulations including size and location see http://library3.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=10183&doc_action=whatsnew

Then click on Chapter 18, Article XII

Shall I then state the Obvious for you, anonymous?
Because 1 cart isn't remotely competitive, and the discussion has been centered around whether there should be more licenses. I'm suggesting a test of 3. That seems obvious, and it's my suggestion.
So what if someone competitively bids and acquires all three of the licenses? How is that a problem in any way?
I suggested a competitive bid process because a cart vendor doesn't have all the other costs that are attached to a physical location, and there is this odd concept of 'what the market will bear' that might be interesting in this arena. You know, competition and all of that? Increased fees might also help defray some of the costs that have been mentioned, including some of the clean up.
Your remaining sentence about enriching the city! for no net value! is just... clueless. You think a bid process for mobile vendor carts would enrich the city? You actually believe that they're going to be so sought after and valuable? You think that they're going to be so expensive after the bid process I recommended that it is going to notably affect the price of a vendor cart hot dog?
You also seem to have failed to notice the notion that it would be a test for the second year of the process.
What if only one license was bid for, by the existing vendor? Wouldn't that tell us something about the number of people that would view this sort of task as economically viable or a good way to make money?
This was my suggestion, what's yours?

A second thought,

Why not let all vendors who want a cart permit put their name on a piece of paper in a fish bowl and have Mayor Pradel pull the winners names at a City Council meeting.

To avoid having cards taped to the bottom of the bowl, have the vendors fill in their cards and put them in the bowl while a the TV cameras are turned on.

Permits need to be non-transferable and one per household to avoid stuffing the bowl.


By Anonymous on April 6, 2010 5:35 PM

Why does 3 push carts make any more sense than just 1 or even 33 for that matter?

What if one guy bids on all three licenses just to shut others out?

Why make a vendor license subject to a competitive bid process when other businesses don't have to compete like that to get their license? Besides all that will do is drive up the actual cost of the license to the vendor and needlessly enrich the city for no net value with the consumer paying for the increased cost thru higher food prices.

How is this hard? Being stupid usually isn't.

The way the game is played in Naperville is one owner with multiple companies at the same address gets all the licenses. This wouldn't be the first.

An honest and transparent way to avoid corruption and nepotism is to set the rules and issue permits to all who qualify. This gets rid of the back room deals, bribes and special jobs for elected officials family members.

The question remains, do the people of Naperville want carts in our commercial areas?


By Anonymous on April 6, 2010 5:35 PM

Why does 3 push carts make any more sense than just 1 or even 33 for that matter?

What if one guy bids on all three licenses just to shut others out?

Why make a vendor license subject to a competitive bid process when other businesses don't have to compete like that to get their license? Besides all that will do is drive up the actual cost of the license to the vendor and needlessly enrich the city for no net value with the consumer paying for the increased cost thru higher food prices.

How is this hard? Being stupid usually isn't.

Cap'n Obvious-It's hard when the end game is to give Pal Joey the only cart and keep others out. It's hard to justify his hot dogs over my chop suey cart-except you're a councilman and you like hot dogs, and not chop suey. That's the Council's game, favoritism. Happens all over the place. Like SECA, for example. The fund was set up to give public money to their friends and their enterprises. It's kind of like calling yourself a small government Republican, but wanting to give welfare money out to rich people.

You people. Honestly.

If you truly believe that the addition of one push-cart will turn our Riverwalk into the midwest equivalent of Manhattan, you're out of your minds.

Do you restaurant owners REALLY believe this guy is eating into your business (no pun intended)? Do you really believe that people intending to eat at one of your downtown spots would say, "You know what? Rather than eat at Heaven on Seven or Francesa or Rosebud, let's totally change our dining plans and eat a hot dog standing up."

And if you're truly concerned about mobile eateries, why aren't you complaining about the ice-cream trucks that roam our neighborhoods during the summer?

The Huber analogy is particularly amusing. Our hot-dog man provides a service that people actually want; Scott's just sitting there being loony. C'mon.

Finally, I don't accept the "barrier to entry" argument, either. You need regulations, and cities have a right to accept or deny each application.

Lighten up and let the man make a living.

Why does 3 push carts make any more sense than just 1 or even 33 for that matter?

What if one guy bids on all three licenses just to shut others out?

Why make a vendor license subject to a competitive bid process when other businesses don't have to compete like that to get their license? Besides all that will do is drive up the actual cost of the license to the vendor and needlessly enrich the city for no net value with the consumer paying for the increased cost thru higher food prices.

How is this hard? Being stupid usually isn't.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of a couple of carts downtown. Create some size restrictions so that the carts can't be too big, and decide on a total number. Three sounds like a pretty good figure, for test years 2-3. Place a minimum figure on the licenses, maybe $1500, and the make the bids competitive. The three applications with the largest number get to be street vendors.
How is this hard?

Hornbaker said that $700 probably wouldn't drive him out of business, but he did balk at the price tag for clean-up. "Two hundred fifty dollars to clean up mustard? I want that guy's job," he said.

Mr. Hornbaker -- you have that guy's job. You apparently have not been doing it.

Welcome to small business ownership. Every day you must decide things like....Do I pay someone else to plow? Do I pay someone else to fix this door? Do I pay someone else to vacuum the floors and clean the bathrooms? Or do I do it myself?

As a small business owner you have every job or you pay someone to do it. You have not done certain work, so the city seeks payment to do that job for you. If the majority of customers were eating inside, I am sure you'd find someone to clean up your place. Maybe you.


I'm sure all of the non-food businesses will appreciate the fact that you are eating your lunch on the fly as you wander in and out of their establishment, spilling your multi-colored condiments as you go leaving mustard laced fingerprints on the merchandise for someone who is actually a cash paying customer.

Come on, develop a little class and some patience. Pull up a chair and learn how to actually eat at a table like a civilized person. While you are sitting their reading the menu thank yourself for having enough personal discipline to avoid eating unhealthy fast food like hot dogs in the first place.

The last thing we need is everyone else in Naperville looking as unhealthy as our Mayor and look at the price he is paying for decades of unhealthy eating habits.

Again, no problem with the concept of some carts. Just not one for Joey because he knows some city officials and none for anyone else because they don't. Come up with a legitmate number, or have none. The elected officials need to make a call, and the dowtown businesses have a legitimate gripe. Having one guy that got a deal is bad public perception at best, and unethical at worst.

This isn't about letting the guy have his cart, and it's also great to buy an eggroll/corn dog/giant turkey leg without having to sit down. BTW, I hear that there were many other people that approached the City with carts in the downtown in the past and were turned down, so he's not the first.

I hear there is a group starting up No Sidewalks Full Of Carts (NSFOC for short). Please send your tax deductable (but not tax deductable) donation now. Website to follow soon with pictures of local landfills pretending to be downtown litter and a local state senator will call Vienna Hot Dogs and threaten legislation if they sell to the hot dog cart vendor. Misleading information in regard to the effects of processed meat served on white flour buns with multi colored condiments will be fed over and over again to the reporter at the Naperville Sun hoping to scare local people from supporting the cart.

Come on. Let the guy have his cart. Its great to buy a hot dog while downtown without having to sit a table wait for a waitress and wait for your food to be prepared. I would think this allows more time for shopping at the non-food businesses downtown.

I'm not so sure a one year trial was ever needed. I'm even less enthused with the idea of a license renewal.

Anyone who has ever been to NYC has seen firsthand that literally anything can be prepared and cooked by a street vendor. Meaning up to and including anything sold by any of the downtown restaurants. Some of the pushcarts are huge. Some are modular and link together once they are at a location. And they do cause congestion, noise, smells, and attract birds, insects, and rodents. Many of them discharge waste water right into the street gutter. Then there is the music and cat calls to pedestrians as they compete with each other for more business. At the end of the day when they pack up and go home there are obvious, permanent stains left on the sidewalk from years of grease drippings, spills, and other sundry accidents.

Once we accept the concept of street vendors without thinking through a whole host of issues that plague other cities we are destined to needlessly repeat the same mistakes ourselves.

There are a few misguided fools who think one hot dog cart is somehow a quaint addition to downtown. The problem is once the barn door is opened on street vendors we will be fighting constant battles and lawsuits over locations, noise, littering, number of licenses, types of licenses, etc. And anyone who thinks a whole line of push carts up and down Main or Jefferson or Jackson is anything but plain ugly and obnoxious doesn't understand or respect the downtown image Naperville has worked hard and long to create.

Stormy, it's not about supply/demand it's more about barrier to entry. The city imposes a very high barrier to entry to be in the downtown market area....except for Joe who got a one of a kind exclusive sweetheart deal. THAT is what people really have the problem with.

This city is truly amazing, where else would people get their collective panties in a bunch over a hot dog vender? Now if it was a cart selling espresso, biscotti or tofu on a low calorie fat free stick there would be no argument from any true Naperville citizen. I say let him stay and sell his hot dogs, what is the worst that will happen, you spill some catsup on the designer shoes you just bought? If the hot dog cart idea doesn’t work out he will leave. Think back to your days in school and learning about economics and the ideas of free market and supply and demand. If people do not want the goods being sold (the demand drops) the supplier will go elsewhere. Let it go people and worry about bigger things like whether your kids are throwing candy at the parades.

The Huber analogy is right on, except that City folks, Dickie F. and CM Bob seem to like the smell of hot dogs, and they guy that sells them, and not Scott Huber.

It's funny that some things seem to get scrutinzed to the hilt around there and others fly through with little thought or debate.

Either you allow other street vendors without subsidizing them, or none. Wasn't the hot dog guy supposed to be a trial? Was that just a ruse for his monopoly? Anyone know what he made last year?

La Cucaracha, la cucaracha, da da dada dada da...

Allowing a street vendor essentially amounts to the city subsidizing and/or giving away for free a large percentage of the "overhead" costs that a traditional brick and mortar business must incur. Government has no place in creating an uncompetitive business environment with established businesses who have paid the price to play by the rules long established by the City of Naperville, the downtown alliance, the special taxing district, etc.

A street vendor isn't paying a fair market price for rent or to purchase a piece of real estate. A street vendor isn't paying property taxes. A street vendor isn't providing any parking. A street vendor isn't providing trash collection or paying for trash pickup. A street vendors isn't cleaning the sidewalk, curbs, and gutters after it is done for the day. The price of a vendor license doesn't even come close to what a similar competitor with an actual building pays for a business license nor does the cost of business and liability insurance... that is if street vendors even have much, if any, insurance. A street vendor doesn't have to meet building, plumbing, electrical, fire, and a bunch of other codes. A street vendor doesn't need to provide tables and chairs, rest rooms for customers, or even hand washing facilities. A street vendor doesn't need to install a fire alarm or automatic sprinkler system or meet ADA codes.

It never has been clearly stated in previously reported articles if street vendors are properly collecting and paying sales tax, at what tax rate, and/or if the street vendor is paying their fair share of taxes towards the downtown special taxing district or if this is another free ride they are getting to cheat the local, state, and federal tax systems?

It doesn't take a very large brain to figure out that it is easy to make a greater profit by shedding the most expensive costs of opening and operating a business and then to simply take as much as you can for free at the expense of the taxpayer and local government.

From a very basic level there isn't a whole lot of difference between Scott Huber wanting to live for free in the public way of Naperville and a street vendor who wants to operate a business for free in the public way of Naperville. It took forever to resolve the Scott Huber drama and now our elected officials are edging us all down a path we don't need to travel with street vendors and for the life of me I don't know why other than to speculate that there isn't a single member of our city council who has the intellectual capacity to see past the end of their own nose.


By creating more felony offenses, the legislators (mostly lawyers), unionized police, quasi-unionized defense lawyers, unionized prison guards and unionized-connected-prison-construction-companies (and all the unionized connected sub-contractors and corrupt pension management consultants) get to make more money.

Its time to put the Drug Cartels, Drug gangs, SEIU Police Union, Prison Guards Union, Trial Lawyers Association, Corrupt Legislators, and Unionized Connected Government Contractors out of business or at least severely shrink them and their corruption of our great country. Apparently, we now have as many corrupt government officials as Mexico that are on the take from the Mexican Cartels. Wall Street launders the drug money, Wall Street buys the Senate with lobbyists as the middlemen.

Decriminalize all drugs so they can't be sold. Criminalization has been a complete failure and created 1 million gang members in the USA and Cartels in the rest of the world that now operate in over 200 US cities.

Other than education, persuasion and moral character there is no way to stop someone from taking drugs in their home. Wake up the Dutch have it right. Addicts don't have to rob anyone to get their drugs and most addicts go straight to a clinic for free treatment and free drugs. Most keep their jobs and get off the drugs in a year or two. Some OD and die without creating a crime wave as they self-destruct. Free will at work.

Provide for hospital dispensed safe drugs and needles for addicts to put all of the above out of business.

Decriminalize prostitution, just like the rest of the world including most of the Catholic countries who don't see a woman's plight, sloth or career choice as a money-making-opportunity for the Establishment, and enact severe penalties for pimps like Germany.

Like Europe, put the Lawyers back in the bottle reading and writing contracts to make things legal.

The current system only benefits Pimps, Legislators, Drug Cartels, Lawyers, Judges, Street Gangs, Police, Prison Guards, and Connected Contractors and exploits the weakness or poor decisions of drug users and prostitutes who at the least deserve our sympathy not economic exploitation.


By Original Joe on April 4, 2010 11:07 PM

To Anon on April 4,

Wow, you nailed it. Only thing is that the wife, in the coming months, will be a felon for her deeds to feed her family. Felonizing the oldest profession is about to happen in IL.

To Anon on April 4,

Wow, you nailed it. Only thing is that the wife, in the coming months, will be a felon for her deeds to feed her family. Felonizing the oldest profession is about to happen in IL.



The Cart vendors needs to unionize:

They can then charge twice as much as non-union vendors

They can sell only half as many hot dogs as non-unionized vendors then complain about the unfair competition. The unionized hot dog will probably be late and not what the customer ordered.

Pay dues, a percentage of which goes directly to politicians

The cart vendors can block vote for their politicians, provide free campaign workers, and try to intimidate non-union vendors into joining the union.

Once elected, the politicians that the Unions funded, worked for and block voted for will:

* pass law after law establishing them as the monopoly supplier of hot dogs to the government

* pass laws creating crippling costs and regulatory structures for non-union competitors

* and when the unionized carts begin to fail, the governments will borrow hundreds of billions of dollars to bail out the cart vendor's pensions and gold-plated medical plans and pass 100% of the cost of the bail-outs to non-unionized workers and entrepreneurs. Hot dog vendors will be making $100K a year, be able to retire at 55 on 100% pensions and 100% medical and only work 8 months a year while its nice outside. The other 4 months they can complain about how hard it is to work 7 hours a day, five days a week for 8 months.

* when the cart vendors finally fail, even with the tables tilted, the politicians will ignore the Constitution and stiff their creditors who loaned them the money to buy the cart and hot dogs, with the permission of the Supreme Court and just give them the borrowed billions in exchange for few if any concessions. The Supreme Court will rubber stamp the transfer of ownership of the cart from the Banks to the cart vendor in exchange for zero cash.

Then the Unionized cart vendors will be able to give more money, time and votes to the politicians completing the circle of corruption and incompetence


On a parallel corruption track, foreign countries that compete as countries vs US companies will realize that there is a market for hot dog carts in the US.

After a few pay offs funneled through the thousands of lobbyists and Attorneys on K Street in DC, laws will be passed allowing the importation of inferior carts made by children in slave labor countries that sleep 10 to a room, and work 12 hour days, 6 days a week. The new foreign factory will be built on farmland confiscated from peasants who farmed it for hundreds of years, there will be no permitting process or mind numbing EPA regulations designed to prevent anything from ever being built or changed.

US based manufacturers of carts, will be forced out of business by the Congress acting as agents for foreign competitors. Goldman Sacs will broker the sale of the manufacture's equipment to a Chinese state owned company, the factory will be crated up and shipped to China along with unprocessed raw materials and natural resources. Jobs and unprocessed raw materials are now Americas primary exports.

The FEDs will then borrow billions more from China, Japan, and Europe to retrain formerly well paid manufacturing and assembly workers for jobs as cart vendors selling inferior slave labor made goods as we continue to devolve into a third world country.

After a hard day pushing the cart............. passing illegal alien gang-bangers standing on street corners the vendor rides their Chinese made bike home since their car was repoed, they now live in an apartment building made by illegal alien construction slave workers since their house was foreclosed, use their WalMart Malaysian microwave oven to heat an imported burrito, sit on their Chinese made sofa, turn on their Chinese TV and watch the value of their dollars evaporate along with their 401K plans as they wait to hear the politicians speaking into Japanese made TV studio cameras and recording equipment telling them what they are going to do for the American workers next.

At dinner that night, the vendors' kids can tell him that today in school they saw an Al Gore movie and "learned that the US needs to double it's energy prices to save the polar bears who aren't endangered, keep the cooling earth from warming, and sea levels which aren't rising from rising, and create 60,000 subsidized green-jobs to replace the 8 million private economy jobs that were just lost".

More factories (which require electricity so the workers can see what they are doing) will close and be exported, government revenues will collapse further, and the cart vendor will be forced to pay twice as much for heat and electricity as he did last year as the government attaches a real time monitoring device to his utilities so they can fine him if he keeps the kid's rooms above 50 in January.

The next day, the cart vendor will be served a summons by a Sheriffs Deputy to appear as a defendant since a relative of an underemployed trail lawyer will claim to have been injured by a hot dog. Then the vendor will have to borrow $25,000 from family members to pay his up-front attorney's fees which will run into hundreds of thousands for expert witnesses and trail preparation. The insurance company will immediately raise the premium for the cart vendor making his business unprofitable. As a result of the increased demands on the local governments legal system and standard 5% pay raises for all government employees, the local government will add a 2% sales tax to hot dogs driving sales down as more people are forced to bag their lunches.

The vendor will now be eligible for section 8 housing, subsidized electricity, food stamps, fee school lunch and he can sign his family up for Medicaid.

In despair, his wife will secretly begin work as a prostitute to feed her family. This is when she will be arrested and will realize that she doesn't own her own body and should have taken the job as a minimum wage receptionist at the new government run abortion mill. Since the cart vendor is now bankrupt and living in a homeless shelter, his wife will get an apathetic public defender who will plea bargain her case to 6 months in jail, then ask her what her name is so she can fill in the Plea Agreement. The local government will have to hire more police, more judges and build more prisons to house the wave of new prostitutes. To fund this, government will pass an additional 2% tax on hot dogs.

Once in prison, the wife will be repeatedly raped and beaten until she joins a prison gang and begins raping and beating other inmates to survive. The cart vendor will now be working 16 hour days to pay his attorneys, higher taxes, increased insurance premiums, a loan on his now mortgaged cart and extortion to gang members who take over the commercial district after 5pm and an attorney for his wife to represent her on assault charges resulting from prison gang activity.

The cart vendors kids, formerly A students, now left completely unattended end up dropping out of school, joining a gang "their new family" and selling drugs to kids in their neighborhood.

The End?

Oh, Pool Boy, how funny you are.

I don't see a problem with the cart. The "garbage" argument doesn't hold. I could order ice cream from Cookie Dough Creations and throw my plastic spoon on the sidewalk or street. It's the same thing. Be smart and logical about this, please.

And Pool Boy, leave your politics out of a simple issue like a hot dog cart. There's another blog for your topic.

I have no problem with the cart, however, we need to allow others to compete. This is supposed to be free enterprise, right?

Clearly, the current guy was given a deal by the Council. Anytime you hae Dick F. saying it's good, guess what, it's not. It's shady at best, and probably violates laws and ordinances... like Dick!

as for the previous poster - I don't think you want to go there.

Chris -- if the Sun is going to allow people's names to be used in sign on's- then by later today a number of people will be part of sign on's they do not want to be. I suggest you warn the previous poster about such transgressions..as their name will appear shortly otherwise also.

As for the gutless poster... if you think I am any poster already posting on this thread - you are dumber than I thought.

as for 204 being involved- of course not, but I guess it's easier to be a goof than confront facts you wan't dispute isn't it. I guess those of us who are trying to expose the truth on the 3rd HS here- the fact that $150M was spent,not $124M must be getting closer to the truth. Those like you who wanted the northrn Taj Mahal regardless have some owenrship in the cuts happening here now by adding $3M to the ps budget, $ to the transportation budget for a school we will never need. Live with that.

Now if 204 was involved in the hot dog stand-- they would have spent twice what the cart costs, had a PTSA marketing campaign using district equipment to print the fliers, called anyone opposed to the stand a MF.....and taken bonds out on it 5 years ago but not included them in the cost of the cart-- which by the way would not be located downtown, but as far from the populace as they could put it.

I'd like there to be a falafal and hummus cart.

"Do you think Hornbaker's hot dog cart is a valuable addition to the downtown? Do you think he is being treated fairly, or is he treating other businesses fairly?"

In that same order: No it's not a 'valuable' addition. He is being treated with favoritism. He is not treating other businesses fairly because he's not cleaning up the mess generated by his customers.

The real question is: do the people of Naperville want cart based vendors operating in our commercial districts?

If the answer is yes, then the City Council needs to establish the permitting process for everyone that wants to operate a cart and issue permits to all who qualify without restriction.

The problem with spot licensing and spot zoning is that it creates the opportunity and appearance of favoritism and corruption.

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This page contains a single entry by Chris Magee, moderator published on April 1, 2010 6:33 PM.

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