Anonymous,

So we agree, right?

Medicare and social securiy for the aged is NOT free. These people have paid into those systems

Since southeast side is so pathetic he cannot fathom googling the IRS, CBO, or other complex databases on his own, I am throwing him a bone. Consider it a “pity” bone!

So, see the following link where you will find the following little tidbit:

>>http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/appendix_wtoc.pdf

>>http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

If you do so, and read it, you will find some interesting factoids (‘facts’ in your limited vocab), as follows:

>The effective individual tax rate in 1979 for the top 1% was 21.8% while the top marginal rate was 70%

>The effective individual tax rate in 2005 for the top 1% was 19.4%% while the top marginal rate was 35%

>The drop was 2.4% points, and coincides well with my post earlier (5/3/12under Teacher Pensions – I showed as Anonymous)) that guessed the drop at 1-2% points

Gosh, what happened to the other 32.6% of drop in marginal taxes from 1979 to 2005?

Hmmmmm? Oh, that’s right. Just as I posted earlier, the loss of exemptions and other write-offs made the concept of discussing taxes at the marginal level between these two periods MEANINGLESS!

Since logically you have already posted that anything and everything with a link is fact, than you will accept the above links as facts and not some vast right wing conspiracy.

[Note: the 8:23 post was me]

Southeast side,

Dude, revenue collection is the ONLY goal of taxation!.

Your post that the "..health of society is the goal of taxation" is ludicrous. Sadly, your dogma is so ingrained, your knee-jerk response to be uber progressive in any and all situations, that you fail to read & comprehend and seemingly forget the actual subject of debate! We were discussing taxes, bro, not the valid uses of the collected tax monies!

Health of society? Just further proof of your "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" philosophy.

Uh, as already proven southeast side cannot read!

How utterly sad!

If you look closely, weedhopper, you will find several references to  where you can the FACTS I have posted ----- the CBO and IRS databases.

If you are too lazy to google them, well, just further proof of our lefty dogma.

I guess it is clear that unless you are provided  an exact link to a   NYT, Bill Maher,  Rachel  Maddow, or an MSNBC site you have zero interest in it. Broaden your input, bro!

I stand by my facts as posted  and, for the mentally challenged, I will add that as all but you know factoids are, indeed, facts!

Southeast side,

As I said ---- Dude, your red slip is showing! Now we know your agenda as thatbof a far left, Ragan-bashng lefty!

I repeat my earlier post on factoids and please, READ closely as I refer o the IRS and CBO databases. Do some work 'ol son!

Facts are pesky things and your progressive left dogma cannot change them!

Previous post:
So, how about some factoids:
1) The maximum tax rate fell to 28% in 1988-90 from 50% in 1986, yet individual income tax receipts rose to 8.3% of GDP in 1989 from 7.9% in 1986.
The top tax rate rose to 31% in 1991 and revenue fell to 7.6% of GDP in 1992.

The top tax rate was increased to 39.6% in 1993, along with numerous major revenue enhancers such as raising the taxable portion of Social Security to 85% of benefits from 50% for seniors who saved or kept working. Yet individual tax revenues were only 7.8% of GDP in 1993, 8.1% in 1994, and did not get back to the 1989 level until 1995.

As you can see, percentages are meaningless and revenue collection is the only goal (for sane people, anyway). This phenomenon of marginal rates going up and the amountt of reported income going down is what economists call that "the elasticity of taxable income" (ETI)

2)You have stated that the “rich” (whoever they are) are paying less. Too bad your little lefty talking point is a lie.

To wit, the following data concerns the share of total Income Tax paid by certain groups of taxpayers over two data points:

2009
Top 1% = 36.7%
Top 5% = 58.7%
Top 10%=70.5%

1980
Top 1% = 19.05%
Top 5% = 36.84%
Top 10% = 49.28%

As you can see (if you cannot read it or comprehend it, have your mom explain it to you), by any measure the “rich” are paying a much bigger share in 2009 than in 1980 despite your whining and complaints of otherwise.

3) the Congressional Budget Office notes that the effective income tax rate of the richest 1% is about 29.5% when including all federal taxes such as the distribution of corporate taxes, or about twice the 15.1% paid by middle-class families (see CBO – get your own link)

4)Average tax rate paid by AGI in 2008 (IRS, get your own link):

$1 mil and up = 23.3%
$500k to $1 mil = 24.1%
$200k to $500k = 19.6%
$100k to $200k = 12.7%
$50k to $100k = 8.9%
$30k to $50k = 7.2%

5)Change in EFFECTIVE income tax rates, 1977 to 1990, by quintile (go to CBO and do your own work):

Highest (2.5%)
2nd highest (6.3%)
Middle (4.3%)
2nd Lowest none
Lowest (150%)

Finally ---- ta da! The” Idiot Known As Southeast Side” blames Bush (of course --- just taking a cue from his blameless. Whiny president Obama!) for crumbled bridges, dumb kids, and the unbelievable rise in education expenses.

Note, AGAIN, as I predicted earlier the idiot named southeast side fell back on the limited skillsets of his  progressive left tool bag, trying to influence others via his juvenile personal attacks using snide and/or insulting terms, then getting outraged when his  intended target  (ie me) acts in kind. And again, as per expectations,  he cannot keep up so he gets angrier, angrier, and more shrill by the post. So very sad!

Let's be clear --- he agrees on my data, but he dislikes the results of said data! Now his gripe is not that I am wrong, but that his argument has shifted to the rich are inherently bad because they got ahead more than the non rich!!!!  Yikes! This Southeast side is not just sad, he is clearly a class warfare warrior!  You know, to each according to his skills, to each his need, and all that rot. 

Yes, his attempt to stoke the flames of class warfare disgust me, but that disgust is dwarfed by that created by his lack of understanding of economics and taxation.  His ignorance is more than selective ---- it is void of true knowledge. His arguments are pure talking points from the militant, progressice left and lack any debatable argument at all as itbis all crap pulled from his keyster.

Oh, yeah,  guess what? He subscribes to the deity of links, worships at the alter of his little references, yet offers ZERO links on his latest little lefty diatribe. Dude, look up  irony......

The idiot named southeast side,

As I predicted earlier the idiot named southeast side always falls back on the limited skillsets of the progressive left tool bag, which consists of personal attacks using snide and/or insulting terms, then getting outraged when their intended target acts in kind. Voila! Here he is, typecast and in character as tool of the day!

Dude, you are a narrow-minded progressive with zero tolerance for opinions that are not yours, your ideas are 60 years old and based on failures, and your only methods are to attack and inflame class warfare. You are also ungodly lazy and apparently cannot read and/or comprehend and you have no understanding of how the American govt system works. Your gross ignorance on fed gov, in particular, boggles the mind. Your misguided and incorrect statement that the conservatives have been in charge of the economy since 1981 is paranoid and factually wrong. I wish, for you, it was even open to interpretation as YOUR OPINION, but it is not even that. Sad, man.

You seem incapable of understanding the budgets and spending are set by the Congress, that your favorite pin-up girl drove that for years, and that your current mancrush, Harry Reid, won't even create a budget proposal to vote on (for three years running). If you want to point to the Prez as responsible, look no further than Obama and his historic debt --- he has matched Bush in only 3.5 years! Oh, darn, I didn’t provide a link on that. Must just be opinion, you idiot!

Further, your understanding of the tax system is nonexistent. You are embarrassing yourself and your family, man. You have an unhealthy obsession with marginal percentages and little to no understanding of itemized deduction phase-outs, the mobility of capital, etc. Say, when is the past time you were able to spend a “percentage”, by the way?

So, how about some factoids:
1) The maximum tax rate fell to 28% in 1988-90 from 50% in 1986, yet individual income tax receipts rose to 8.3% of GDP in 1989 from 7.9% in 1986.

The top tax rate rose to 31% in 1991 and revenue fell to 7.6% of GDP in 1992.

The top tax rate was increased to 39.6% in 1993, along with numerous major revenue enhancers such as raising the taxable portion of Social Security to 85% of benefits from 50% for seniors who saved or kept working. Yet individual tax revenues were only 7.8% of GDP in 1993, 8.1% in 1994, and did not get back to the 1989 level until 1995.

As you can see, percentages are meaningless and revenue collection is the only goal (for sane people, anyway). This phenomenon of marginal rates going up and the amountt of reported income going down is what economists call that "the elasticity of taxable income" (ETI)

2)You have stated that the “rich” (whoever they are) are paying less. Too bad your little lefty talking point is a lie.

To wit, the following data concerns the share of total Income Tax paid by certain groups of taxpayers over two data points:

2009
Top 1% = 36.7%
Top 5% = 58.7%
Top 10%=70.5%

1980
Top 1% = 19.05%
Top 5% = 36.84%
Top 10% = 49.28%

As you can see (if you cannot read it or comprehend it, have your mom explain it to you), by any measure the “rich” are paying a much bigger share in 2009 than in 1980 despite your whining and complaints of otherwise.

3) the Congressional Budget Office notes that the effective income tax rate of the richest 1% is about 29.5% when including all federal taxes such as the distribution of corporate taxes, or about twice the 15.1% paid by middle-class families (see CBO – get your own link)

4)Average tax rate paid by AGI in 2008 (IRS, get your own link):
$1 mil and up = 23.3%
$500k to $1 mil = 24.1%
$200k to $500k = 19.6%
$100k to $200k = 12.7%
$50k to $100k = 8.9%
$30k to $50k = 7.2%

5)Change in EFFECTIVE income tax rates, 1977 to 1990, by quintile (go to CBO and do your own work):
Highest (2.5%)
2nd highest (6.3%)
Middle (4.3%)
2nd Lowest none
Lowest (150%)

Finally ---- ta da! The” Idiot Known As Southeast Side” blames Bush (of course --- just taking a cue from his blameless. Whiny president Obama!) for crumbled bridges, dumb kids, and the unbelievable rise in education expenses.

Dude, your red slip is REALLY showing!

Southeast Side
Dont you know that "Reality has a well known Liberal bias?" My favorite line in your note..."A "useful idiot" who defends the same people who are stealing from your pocket." Amen.

anonononon
My posts on this topic are not really meant to be funny. They are designed to ridicule the lunatic fringe who are spending so much time and energy to oppose smartmeters for some of the weakest and most speculative of all possible reasons. There are other spurious reasons for smartmeter opposition that are equally or perhaps even more deserving of ridicule (most of the others on the SM Awareness website quite frankly) but I thought of this one first.

La Cucaracha
While I oppose government spending on projects of perhaps dubious value, I feel a lot WORSE about things like the trillion-odd we spent on the lie in Iraq. So...given the choice, I will vote for smartmeters (and spending on energy efficiency and infrastructure in general) every time.

SouthEast,

People are paying their taxes, you don't like their taxes..

Buffet, the Obama Mouthpiece, pays himself in stock and sells it paying only Capital Gains. He could pay himself a paycheck and pay 30% if he wanted to. What is Obama giving him to be a mouthpiece?

In absolute terms, Buffet is paying multiples of what his secretary pays, yet each receives exactly the same amount of Government Services.

Pension Plans are the biggest holders of Stocks in the US, primarily Unionized Workers. So what Obama really wants to do is tax pensions of the lobotomized Union Workers who pay for his elections and vote for him. I guess that diverting their union dues into electing Marxist leaning politicians isn't enough.

Obama's real goal, replace Capitalism with Socialism, but first the Capitalists (Investors and small businesses) must be destroyed since they won't be able to adjust to CHANGE.

As a side note: Do you think Obama was lying to his Uncle Racist Rev Wright for 20 years or is he lying to the US now? Which one is it?

I note the idiot named southeast side did not answer any of my questions, as expected went to the insults and name calling, used a non sequiter as his defense, and generally proved his ignorance.

Really, dude --- can you even read?

There are literally thousands of corprations, 500  large ones commonly followed, yet you posted "big phama, oil and the financial sector", and then you go  on the attack using GE, Ford, Hewlett Packard, Verizon, etc. in your rebuttal (with one mention of BOA). Really?

What happened to your big oil, pharma, financial argument? Pesky facts get in your way?

Did you research my questions and get answers that did not support your lying propagandist drivel?

Did you find out that over any 5 yr period the oil industry pays one of, if not the, highest tax rate in  America? That it exceeds 40%?

Did you finally comprehend that measuring taxes paid by a business in a single year is useless, misleading, and represents a lie by anyne trying to make that argument on  a generalized, gross basis? That  businesses have loss carryforwards and carrybacks?

Of course there probably are  some business out there, somewhere,  paying little or no taxes  for some extended given period, but that  is not a reason to go all anarchist/socialist on us and condemn the other 99%.

The "canard" is the fabricated (constructed from prepared components) story by Buffett. It has been fairly stated in many places (see Forbes, etc) that he created the tax rate discrepancy via both pay practices. I will add that in viewing the IRS tables, his secretay must make closer to 500k in salary to achieve a realized fed income tax rate of 34%. Simple math. 

You claim to understand taxes, yet no mention of the unbelievably high taxes paid on dividends. Huh! I will note again that  the top income tax rate is meaningless ---- talk realized rates or please shut up as your ignorance is embarassing.

Of course, I am guessing your dogmatic little liberal mind will ignore facts and fall back on insults and talking points,  as you are a tool of the brie & chardonnay crowd, a putz and patsy of the limosine liberals on K street and Rodeo drive, a useful idiot who defends the left regardless of their countless and consistent failures. 

Yes, I am calling YOU a liar and  a leftwing propagandist! Small minds like you keep trying to get more and more from the government via 60 yr old ideas and    you create and inflame anti-American class warfare for the selfish purpose of padding your own pockets.

You mention austerity in Europe --- what, 2 weeks worth? That is not austerity. If your feeble mind cannot comprehend that our debt is crippling us like it did Europe, if you cannot  comprehend the simple numbers that taxing the 1% more and oil companies more will do nothing for the national debt, if you cannot comprehend that spending is the problem, then I will submit that you and those who think like you are the  problem.

I know quite a bit about Keynesian econ, and I know it is an abject failure (like your thought process).

If the military has no value, lets announce that the US won't retaliate if a foreign power nukes NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF and LA, we can trow in Seattle and Portland. We can save the drastically reduced number of nukes to respond if the suburbs or a rural area are hit. If fallout could only stay inside the cities with all of the no nukes crowd.

The biggest threat to us is the alliance of wingnuts demonizing our livlihoods and trying to turn usinto a socialist society.

Any guesses how many Americans are employed by "big oil, big pharma, and the financial sector"?

Any guesses how many tax dollars are generated by these three?

Any simple guesses at, say, the avg tax rate paid by Big oil?

Any guesses at the % of GDP paid to the military now and hisorically?

Any actual facts on these allegd rich guys with lower lower taxes than their secretaries (Buffett has already been proven incorrect on this canard, so who are all the others you

The real question is, "Do you actually know ANYTHING about taxes and economics, or are you just a simple parrot for the wingnut left mindlessly repeating their attack points?"

Let's talk about smart meters some more. Mine was just installed about 10 days ago and when I look in a mirror with the lights out I notice that my eyeballs glow a little bit from the inside. Should I be worried?

Do you think the 911 trials will conclude by September allowing them to be used in campaign ads?

Also, can someone answer me why I have to pay for schools all of my life when I only use them for 12 years at best if I have kids ??? When is enough, enough?

It's called a society. Did you hack your cabin out of the wilderness on a road you built by yourself? No - taxes paid by those before you built all of that. If you complain about paying your fair share, it only proves you are a selfish cretin.

Please feel free to join the Libertarian paradise of Somalia. No taxes to worry about there. Please send a postcard.

The alliance of multinational corporations, Big Oil, Big Pharma and the Financial Sector have a monopoly on power at the State level that they use to take money from the workers and redistribute to themselves. So formerly highly taxed multimillionaires are able to almost completely avoid taxation. A huge portion of taxation is spent on the military, which only serves the Interests of big Business ( aka the Wealthy), yet those same wealthy pay way lower tax rates that their own secretaries. Mitt Romney paid only 13% on earnings of 21 MILLION. "Regular" folks pay 8% on every penny earned for SS and Medicare - Plus 15-30% on income taxes. While the rich pay nothing because none of their money is earned, and capital gains pay almost nothing. Meanwhile our roads and bridges collapse and college has become prohibitively expensive. But no-one cares because the rich can still afford college, and all of the other jobs go overseas.

Until folks wake up and quit letting their government serve the rich, we are doomed to this plutocracy.

District 204 school district has raised their multiplier on my real estate tax bill 12.3%. Why, Why, Why ????????????? When is the school district going to stop taxing us to death. Most all of us are doing without and tightening up our belts, but not 204.

Other taxing bodies have raised their multiplier but when you figure that 71 % of you tax bill is for the schools, that is a lot of money.

Also, can someone answer me why I have to pay for schools all of my life when I only use them for 12 years at best if I have kids ??? When is enough, enough?

But I guess that when you have overpaid adminstrators and pay the school supintendent $203,00 a year what else can you expect!

The alliance of Government Unions, Marxist ideologs, labor unions and one minority have a monopoly on power at the State level that they use to take money from the producers and redistribute to themselves. So formerly underpaid, but highly secure and well pensioned public employees are now highly paid, feather-bedded, ultra secure and in a position to totally consume the equity you have built up over a lifetime via the redistribution machine that they largely control. Your wages are seized if you are employed, your house is liened if you own one to pay the pension, benefits and salary load for public employees. If you don't like your taxes you can move to a different State ( like out employers are doing) or you can refuse to pay them and have your house confiscated and sold. Illinois will not change anything until total bankruptcy sets in and no one will give them credit. At that point the State will become one big Detroit. Mr Obama's plan is turn the rest of the country into bankrupt California, IL or NY so that there is no escape. The USA has now passed the financial point of no return 100% debt to GDP.