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Walmart expansion

| 33 Comments

Walmart wants to build a new Superstore in Naperville. but they are asking the city for $1.7 million in tax breaks in order to get the project done and Naperville officials appear to be on board. Is the deal necessary? What might be the case if the city had said no?

33 Comments

But you do like supporting union hacks at Walmart?

I love Walmart! Bring them in to Naperville! Kmart is poorly managed. I personally don't like supporting union hacks at Jewell and Dominicks. I will happily shop at a Super Walmart! Thank you for the competition!

Just using your words. Buddy, and obviously you don't even understand what heresy means.

It was a simple question. A question any 14 year old could answer.

"... then you also believe He is with us, and amongst us, right now, and part of us, right now,..."

You don't know me yet you think you know what I believe... WOW, you boldly go where no man has ever gone before!

"... thus the actions you describe are His actions."

And your conclusion is heresy.

Well, if you truly are a believer as you try to suggest with your question, then you also believe He is with us, and amongst us, right now, and part of us, right now, thus the actions you describe are His actions.

So drop the phony holiness.

Ask yourself this one question:

"Would Jesus Christ treat His own people the way they are treated by today's corporations?

Yeah, you are right ---- too bad we didn't keep everyone down on the farm and keep making buggy whips! We would really be flying then!

Creative Destruction

Yes we destroyed our manufacturing base and we created a lot of unemployed people.

Great letter to the editor in the Sunday Sun from the owner of Oswald's Pharmacy about the Walmart fiasco.

Every small business owner in Naperville that sells any of the same kind of merchandise that is sold by Walmart should be outraged at the special treatment Walmart is being given and should be complaining to the Chamber of Commerce and probably marching in on the next city council meeting to voice their displeasure.

Oswald's is one of, if not the oldest, continuous operating businesses in Naperville and it has always been a privately owned, small business. It wasn't too long ago that Oswald's made a bold move to relocate from downtown to a new, larger location on Gartner Road.

Oswald's made the move into a location that was within their means to afford and without any help or subsidies from anyone. And there are just a ton of other small business around Naperville that have done the same thing without any help from anyone.

And so it should be. If a mom and pop can do it and be successful then the Naperville taxpayer has no business using tax dollars to subsidize another business who wants to do exactly the same thing.

If Walmart can't afford it, so be it. If Walmart is going to be subsidized then a precedent is being set where we the taxpayers of Naperville should be similarly obliged to subsidize any other business. What is fair is fair. Walmart does not deserve and should not be entitled to any kind of special treatment.

Maybe Walmart simply needs to learn how to negotiate real estate deals better with the equally ruthless people over at Brach-Brody who are alleged to be selling the property Walmart wants at an overly inflated price during a down economy.

Remember these are the same people who ruthlessly filed suit against Aero Estates and caused those homeowners hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bill defending the airport they have operated there since the 1950's.

Remember these are the same people who ruthlessly sucked about $10 Million Dollars out of the SD204 taxpayer pockets for the other parcel on the west side of Rt 59. Twenty years ago that parcel was nothing but dirt and today it is nothing but dirt yet the SD 204 bank account is about $10 Million Dollars poorer in terms of our money that has been poured into a site that is still nothing but dirt.

It would be really interesting to know what the public outcry would have been if Walmart had gone after the parcel on the west side of Rt 59 where over $10 Million Dollars of taxpayer dollars has already been squandered and asked for another $1.75 Million Dollars in additional subsidies for themselves. That would have put nearly $12 Million Dollars of taxpayer subsidies into a property owned by people who are as callous and as ruthless as they come.

At what point does the average taxpayer say enough is enough?

At what point does the Naperville city council realize that the taxpayers expect more of them than they are delivering?

Than apparently you fail to understand the term.

"Creative destruction: .......way in which capitalist economic development arises out of the destruction of some prior economic order"

To point, as certain base jobs/industries, such as many of the manufacturing jobs in the U.S., become too expensive in terms of, say, capital or asset deployment, they are moved out to other areas/societies where the same use of capital and assets still makes good Econ sense.

Example: the industrial revolution where people left the farms to go to the cities and work in factories. Geographically, many jobs moved from the north to the south after the civil war as the south had a surplus of idle human assets, etc.

Now, for many reasons, certain jobs have moved to less advanced societies, such as China.

Just Saying has a poor understanding of business, economics, and history.

Using his logic everything would be exported to the lowers wage earners anywhere in the world. The problem with that logic has already been demonstrated in how many countries like Japan and Korea for example where the importation of manufacturing jobs caused their salaries and standard of living to skyrocket.

The short term quest for short term profit will be lost within 100 years when there are no more countries left to exploit and the standard of living has leveled off globally. What is more important then is how we will differentiate and protect the American worker and economy because instead of having only a few countries as strong competitors literally all countries across the globe will be competitors.

Greedy CEO's, incompetent Senators and Congressmen, crappy foreign policy, and good old corruption have all had a hand in how and why we have a this mess on our hands.

Walmart is an evil enterprise driven by their pagan worship of the money god. It brags about how many people it employs yet doesn't want to talk about where those people used to work or how much they used to make before they ended up having to settle for mostly part-time work with low wages and few benefits. Walmart doesn't want to talk about their workers used to be employed by small, local businesses that went broke when a Walmart opened in their town. Walmart doesn't want to talk about their workers used to be employed by hundreds of companies who sent their jobs to China, Mexico, Pakistan, and dozens of other god forsaken places that abuse human rights, employ child labor, and often force workers to tolerate 10-12 hour shifts 6 days a week under working condition not found anywhere in America.

And the whores to the sales tax dollars that we call our city council care more about pleasing an evil enterprise like Walmart (BTW there are plenty of other evil enterprises out there) than being good stewards of our tax dollars.

There is no way Walmart would move across the street to Aurora, two reasons actually. First, Aurora would never, ever give Walmart 1.75 Million dollars. Aurora would tell them if they can't afford it to go pound sand. Second, Aurora charges 1% more than Naperville for sales tax and that would eat up a big part of Walmart's competitive advantage.

Considering the average Walmart generates 16.5 Million in sales revenue per year and the Naperville store is pulling in over $25 million it is definitely at the higher end of store performance and there is no way Walmart would ever walk away from this market.

Simple truth is Walmart bluffed and the city council folded. Tip, want to make some easy money? Host a poker party and invite the city council to come play. Like taking candy from a baby.

Yes, you don't pay US employment related taxes of any kind when you export the job. You also don't have to deal with the EPA or OSHA.

These alone are reason enough to move the jobs to avoid direct and indirect cost's.

Creative destruction? It appears to be just destruction, nothing was created.


Hopefully you realize that many/most of the items you listed ARE taxes, right?

You need to do some research on  creative construction. It is a real social & economic term. To follow where your logic appears to be going, we should have ignored creative destruction and not allowed young people to leave the farms,  or to allow "buggy whip production" to leave the U.S., etc.

Also, I the entire business world will be interested to know there are no longer any tariffs.


"Of course, the idiots running the country could change the tax code to make U.S. the same or less than our competitors."


Benefits of moving manufacturing to slave labor countries:

Feds eliminated all tariffs at the behest of companies like Walmart. So no tariffs.

US manufacturers and retailers don't have to pay the load for Soc Sec, Medicade, Medicare, Fed state and local income taxes, FUTA and SUTA on jobs that are moved to China.

5 million plus manufacturing jobs moved to China

Instead of paying $25 an hour for US non-slave workers, companies get Chinese slave workers for .50 cents per hour. The Mexicans making products for export to the US had their wages rise to $2 hr, before the China trade deal, their jobs were also exported to China to save $1.50 an hour, oh yeah if you go on strike you end up in a gulag or in front of a firing squad.

Walmart has 2.2 million employees today, lets guess it was half that number when they got their trade agreement with China, so we traded 5 million $25 hr jobs for 1.1 million $10 hr jobs and created a few more billionaires and the Senate got some chump change for their votes on their shrewd insider stock investments.

So when you lose your $25 an hour job and get a $10 hr one, you don't have any choice but to shop at a place that sells slave labor products, oh forgot, you also lost your pension, get a smaller SSA payment when you retire, lost your health insurance and are forced to buy tainted food and consumer products that are inferior to the ones you use to make.

As I said ---- the social effect is worth a discussion.

As for economics, you are just plain wrong. An understanding of the global economy and creative destruction, along with the U.S. Tax code, would shown that the production moving overseas would happen regardless of the purchaser (in this case Walmart). Sad, but true.

Of course, the idiots running the country could change the tax code to make U.S. the same or less than our competitors.

"Yes, it has pummeled small biz owners, but that has been overwhelmed by the positive Econ effect on middle America's pocketbook and budget."

Some consumers benefiting by lower prices is hardly enough to offset the number of huge number of manufacturing jobs the US has exported to China.

Go visit any small or rural town to see first hand what Walmart has done to small business owners.

Walmart plays a significant role in the import/export trade imbalance in the US. Walmart as a corporation is very highly dependent upon foreign goods. Without foreign goods Walmart could not sell at the prices they do. Take away their price advantage and no one would shop there.

Walmart chose corporate profit over middle class working Americans. The economic and social ills caused by Walmart go hand in hand.

My statement is half wrong (at least)? Not hardly.

Your statement is half wrong (at least!): Walmart has had, overall, a positive economic effect on America. Yes, it has pummeled small biz owners, but that has been overwhelmed by the positive Econ effect on middle America's pocketbook and budget. However, I would agree it 's effect socially on America is definitely open to argument.

"I refuse to shop at Walmart because of the negative economic and social impact it has made on America."


Southeast, you forget all of the shrewd investors in the house and more importantly the Senate who approved the Slave labor agreement with China. Pre slave importation the stock was worth less than after. Oh I forgot, we don't import the slaves anymore we just import their products.

The Senate sold the country out for a very few bucks.

PS I usually shop there once a year, and usually leave empty handed.

Southeast,

Who's paying attention?

Anyone who is paying attention knows full well that the Naperville City Council had an agreement with Aurora that the city limits would be the EJ&J.

In the 70's when Fox Valley was being build Naperville wanted nothing to do with it and encouraged Aurora to annex the land all the way east to Rt 59.

If they had never made that bone headed move we wouldn't be sitting here today worrying about something like Walmart moving across the street.

Naperville city councils have a long history of making bad, short sighted decision going back many decades.

I refuse to shop at Walmart because of the negative economic and social impact it has made on America.

You have a valid argument, that they will invest no matter what. Maybe the would maybe they wouldn't.

How do you feel about the $25 million dollar Monument Obelisk that the City, we the taxpayer, paid for on the Riverwalk, I also like the monument at the bottom.

It looks exactly like a gigantic Masonic Grave Marker rivaling the privately funded Masonic monuments known as the Wash. Monument and Washington's Grave in Arlington Va. Naperville's largest developer rivals George Washington?

I think the City should give the Obelisk to the Lodge Brothers and bill them for the $25 million plus interest.

Does this bother you as much as the $1.1 mil for Walmart?

D&A,

I'd like to know more about how/why you think Walmart will be paying 10 times more in new sales tax dollars?

I'm not inclined to agree that a 50% larger store will generate 10 times more sales than the existing store.

The point has already been made that Walmart set their own standard in terms of what the land was worth. Theoretically they could have set the bar for what they were willing to pay anywhere, after all it was their argument. What if they said they thought the property was worth 2 or 3 or 4 million less than the asking price? How much was our city council willing to give away?

If they can't afford the asking price they can negotiate with the seller or walk away. The taxpayer should have no duty or responsibility to fund a private purchase like this.

The only thing that I would be agreeable to help a new merchant get established (and Walmart is not a NEW merchant) would be a temporary reduction that would have to be fully paid back after a short, but reasonable period of time. There should never, ever be sales tax give aways. Giving away sales tax money levied and collected by a unit of government to a business is just simply wrong.

We as consumers end up paying more in sales tax to make up the differences that benefit a few. And in the case of Walmart there is absolutely no demonstrated need for any kind of subsidy.

The Naperville store is not struggling, heck they are expanding to meet the need and demand. The Walmart corporation is not struggling and continues to grow and expand both domestically and internationally.

The only thing I see struggling here is the City of Naperville being able to understand simple economics and their role and responsibility as stewards of our tax dollars.

Are you people paying attention? Walmart threatened to move ACROSS the STREET to aurora - not to "abandon" the Naperville market. They currently bring in $500K per year in sales tax. They used a business tactic called "greenmail". In order to keep the $500K per year, the city needed to give them a break on expansion. The city was left with a bad choice - to give a private corporation a tax break, or a worse choice - to lose $500K per year in sales taxes. The situation sucks, but the city did the right thing. Please feel free to stop shopping at Walmart because of their predatory business practices ( I refuse to shop there), but don't blame city council. They made the best choice - or in this case, the least bad choice.

Correct

Walmart gets a tax break on the first dollars then pays back in 10x as much in new sales tax revenues in addition to adding employees who in turn pay taxes and shop in the community generating even more tax revenue. And if Walmart does a bad job, citizens stop going there and they go away.

Smart Meters, the government borrows money from China, to install meters that add zero value, zero productivity gain, drastically decrease grid reliability by adding 20,000 new points of failure, decrease citizen satisfaction, and save the citizens zero. So for our $22 million in tax money invested we get zero return, and enslave our Children and grandchildren to China resulting in a lower standard of living as they make the ever growing payments on the Federal, State and Local credit card. And, if the Citizens don't like it, too bad we will have you arrested if you interfere with meter installation.

I don't know about the rest of the people but I for one am getting fed up with paying around 8% of my hard earned money in sales tax only to have the politicians who are supposed to be collecting it for government purposes just endlessly continue to give it away to profit making corporations.

Has anyone else realized that if all, meaning 100%, of our tax dollars were going for government purposes we would all be paying a LOWER % in sales tax. The % we do pay is artificially inflated to offset all of these give-a-ways! It is time for everyone to stand up and say we are sick and tired of this nonsense and we aren't going to put up with any more!

These sales tax give-a-ways are basically nothing more than a bait and switch scam being conducted by our own government.

Enough is enough. We need legislation that takes away the ability of ANY unit of local government to act in this manner.

We probably need to do away with home rule while we are at it considering how badly that has been abused too.

I am extremely happy Walmart is doing this! I am sick and tired of paying high union prices at Jewel and Dominicks. It's about time!

Walmart asked for 1.75 M in tax breaks. Why? Because that was the difference between what the property cost and what Walmart was willing to pay.

I don't know about Walmart, but the way most people in Naperville were raised... well we'd all love to live in a better more expensive house but if it cost more than we are willing to pay, we settle for less.

Nobody talked about the fact that Walmart will be selling a heck of a lot more product in a store that is 50% bigger and making a heck of a lot more PROFIT.

Nobody talked about the fact that Walmart would never leave the Naperville market even if it's request was turned down because the store is still a top producer.

Noboday talked about what is going to happen to the old Walmart. Expect a vacant eyesore that will sit vacant for years if not decades. The city council could have at least negotiated an obligation by Walmart to fill with another merchant of some kind.

Nobody talked about what if Walmart did leave. So what? Everything that Walmart sells can be had at Target or Kmart and other similar stores. Maybe the price might not be as low, but people would still need to buy the same exact things. If the prices were higher that would mean Naperville would actually be collecting more sales tax than they are getting from Walmart.

If sales tax revenue is the bottom line, maybe it would have actually been better to have invited Walmart to leave town than to just give away tax dollars to a ruthless corporation who is already making a handsome profit.

It is a shame that no one in city government has demonstrated that they have any kind of understanding of basic economics.

Yes. I realize the $22 million and was just referring to the $11 million that the city paid out. That is definitely $11 million of our money for our city gone, to pay for a program that was not necessary in this economy. You wonder why people have just had it with all levels of government anymore.

Why can't we the people get a tax break ??? Guess we don't matter. It sure would be nice to get a tax break on our real esatate taxes especially when it comes to the out of control taxes from 204 school district which has no conception of money.

It's not $11 million for smart meters, it's $22 million. Remember, the federal money is tax money, too. I predict we'll soon get some of those tax dollars back in the higher electric bills we'll all be seeing soon. ( Oh, that's still taxpayer money, isn't it? IT's the gift that keeps on giving.

Well, the council gave them what they wanted. So we now have $11 million gone of our tax money for the smart meters and another $1 million plus we won't be collecting from Walmart. This all amounts to nothing less than extortion. What next??

The other side of the argument is that Walmart makes life more affordable for the entire community and here are other communities lining up to give them the same breaks they are asking for.

If Walmart leaves, that leaves Naperville with zilch.

Great points and I would never give them a tax break. The corporate welfare of Walmart and others just aggravates me. I do not have anything against them, but pay your fair share of taxes and quit asking for handouts when the city needs to be collecting tax revenue to, I don't know, run the city. Unbelievable.

With the money that WalMart has they don't need a tax break nor do we need another Wal Mart in Naperville or anywhere else for that matter. They are keeping China employed while Americas suffer here for lack of jobs.

But I will not be surprised at all if the City of Naperville, gives them the tax breaks whether the residents want it or not. The city of Naperville does what it want.

Why don't WE the working people get a tax breaks ????

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